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Transcript of 'What ISIS Really Wants'_ How Readers Are Responding to the Atlantic's Cover Story - The Atlantic
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3/8/2015 'What ISIS Really Wants': How Readers Are Responding to The Atlantic's Cover Story - The Atlantic
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants-reader-response-atlantic/385710/ 1/5
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GRAEME WOOD FEB 24 2015, 7:00 AM ET
My cover story in TheAtlantics March issue asked, as simply as possible, WhatdoesISISbelieve,andwhatareitsideologicalroots?I read every ISISstatement I could find, including fatwas and tweets and road signs, and I front-loaded my mornings with execution videos in hopes that by bedtime Id haveforgotten enough of the imagery to sleep without nightmares. I picked throughevery spoken or written word in search of signals of what ISIS cares about andhow its members justify their violence. I also asked a small group of its mostdoctrinaire overseas supporters for guidance, and they obliged.
At the time, the dominant clich about ISIS was that it was a thrill-kill groupthat had hijacked Islam for its own ends, and that these ends were cynical,pathological, and secular. The investigation yielded something like the oppositeconclusion: ISIS had hijacked secular sources of power and grievance, and wasusing them for religious endsends that are, at least among some supporters,sincere and carefully thought through. They include a belief in the imminentfulfillment of prophecy, with the group in a key role.
I am grateful for thoughtful reaction from many sources. (Ill examine separatelythe pushback to my claim that ISIS is within the Islamic tradition.) Shadi Hamidof the Brookings Institution emphasized that ideology is deeply embedded insocial and political facts, and that ignoring those facts is at least as dangerous as
'WhatISISReallyWants':TheResponseA survey of reactions to The Atlantic's cover storyfrom think tanks to jihadist Twitter
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3/8/2015 'What ISIS Really Wants': How Readers Are Responding to The Atlantic's Cover Story - The Atlantic
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants-reader-response-atlantic/385710/ 2/5
Related Story
What ISIS Really Wants
"The enemies of Muslimsprefer to fight theirimaginary war basedupon rational freedom-
ignoring the ideology. I agree completely: ISIS achieved its successes in a hellishsetting where all authority was predatory and nothing was safe; it offeredcertainty, sincerity, and the promise of reliability; it did this in ways that wereantithetical to traditional interpretations of Islam (though not quite asantithetical as some believe).
I suggested that religious ideology was underratedas an explanatory lensindeed, barely understoodas onebut didnt specify the relative importance ofit versus other factors, specifically the badgovernance, the shifting social mores, thehumiliation of living in lands valued only for theiroil. If I could specify that relative importance, Iwould; I find the confidence of others in this regardfascinating. But as I wrote in the original essay:
Without acknowledgment of these factors, no explanation of the rise of theIslamic State could be complete. I set out to write an essay about this groupsideology, which heretofore has gone underacknowledged, so I dont apologize fordoing just that, though I take to heart Hamids counsel to see these elements asless separable than they appear.
J.M. Berger, also of Brookings, argued that the religiosity of the group mattersless than its importance as an identity movement, an aggressive form of definingmembership in a group. Id add that the type of religious ideology ISIS espousesis remarkably well-adapted for brutal enforcement of group membership. Thistype of jihadi-Salafism, unapologetically aimed at purifying Islam throughkilling, was obsessively policing its adherents well before the rise of the IslamicState. Understanding that sect is a way to understand its associated identity.
Andrew Anderson, who studies jihadists, wrote this fine reflection on the contextof the Islamic State's views of warfare, which he places in the medieval periodrather than in the early Islamic conquests to which ISIS considers its project therightful heir. He and my colleague Frank Griffel at Yale both point out how ISIS,which is so keen to emphasize its early-Islamic cred, differs from early Islam inimportant and substantive ways.
For an Islamist perspective, Id refer you to http://justpaste.it/jhxc, a quickreply by a Twitter user who rebuked me gently (thanks) for missteps and endedwith a proposal I dearly hope comes to pass. What is really needed, he wrote,is a delegation from an Islamist background to visit Islamic State territory andengage with their leadership and ideologues as well as their common fighters.He doubted that the specific ideologues I met are the best representatives of thegroups ideology. Until that happens it is hard to truly fathom what thismovement is about and what it truly wants.
As for the reaction from the Islamic State: I noticed my article tweeted outmultiple times by ISIS supporters, at least once by a fan of the group who notednervously that the guy who wrote it must be spying on their tweets. Those whosecomments I saw were delighted that I had taken their ideology seriously andconcluded that ISIS is an Islamic group. Their delight pleases me only becausemy intention was to describe the group in terms it recognized and consideredfair. I suppose at least some supporters thought I succeeded, or at least camecloser than the last infidel who tried.
Anjem Choudary, the notorious London blowhardwho patiently explained the version of jihadism hesupports, tweeted the story out, pleased that he andhis minions got their airtime. Musa Cerantonio, amore soft-spoken and scholarly young Australianwho did the same, sent a long and thoughtful email
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3/8/2015 'What ISIS Really Wants': How Readers Are Responding to The Atlantic's Cover Story - The Atlantic
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants-reader-response-atlantic/385710/ 3/5
loving democrats vs.irrational evil terroristmadmen."
with a few points of correction and clarification. Hestressed that execution for wearing Western clothesand shaving is not an Islamic State practice. I thinkhes right. ISIS certainly forbids shaving, butmerely to commit a sin is not grounds for
excommunication or killing. (To excommunicate over matters of sin would putthe Islamic State in line with the Kharijites, an early sect to which ISISs Muslimenemies often compare the group.) He added that dying without pledgingallegiance to a valid caliph, which I correctly quoted him as saying is a death ofdisbelief, is not to die as an infidel. He said that the quote as printedmisleadingly left open the interpretation that he was calling Muslims infidels. Todo so would jeopardize his own status as a Muslim.
But the most interesting comments concerned my storys popularity among ISISsupporters (referred to below with the shorthand "Muslims"). I was unsurprisedto see it shared online by Islamic State fans, at least somewhat positively, but ofcourse I was still uncomfortable about being praised by avowed gnocidaires.One ISIS supporter wrote to me to note the peculiarity in all this. The piece, hesaid,
is grounded in realism, and argues that not understanding what ishappening is very dangerous, especially if fighting a war, one must fight thewar that is real, not the invented one that one wishes to fight. Perhapsironically, your [writings] ... are most dangerous to the Muslims (not that itis necessarily meant to be so on your behalf), yet they are celebrated byMuslims who see them as pieces that speak the truth that so many try todeny, but also because [Muslims] know that deep down the idealists of theworld will still ignore them.
What stands out to me that others don't seem to discuss much, is how theIslamic State, Osama [bin Laden] and others are operating as if they arereading from a script that was written 1,400 years ago. They not only followthese prophecies, but plan ahead based upon them. One would thereforeassume that the enemies of Islam would note this and prepare adequately,but [its] almost as if they feel that playing along would mean that theybelieve in the prophecies too, and so they ignore them and go about thingstheir own way. ... [The] enemies of the Muslims may be aware of what theMuslims are planning, but it won't benefit them at all as they prefer to eitherkeep their heads in the sand, or to fight their imaginary war based uponrational freedom-loving democrats vs. irrational evil terrorist madmen.With this in mind, maybe you can understand to some degree one of thereasons why many Muslims will share your piece. Its not because we don'tunderstand what it is saying in terms of how to defeat the Muslims, ratherits because we know that those in charge will ignore it and screw things upanyway.
ALL POSTS RSS EMAIL Follow @gcaw 11K followers
GRAEME WOOD is a contributing editor atThe Atlantic.His personal site isgcaw.net.
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3/8/2015 'What ISIS Really Wants': How Readers Are Responding to The Atlantic's Cover Story - The Atlantic
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3/8/2015 'What ISIS Really Wants': How Readers Are Responding to The Atlantic's Cover Story - The Atlantic
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants-reader-response-atlantic/385710/ 5/5
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