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QESE;,P,C^. SOUTHAMPTON, 1962

._ THE IMP0e2V:47- :? =; ►lCLS To THE HEALTH CV'cSTION

AND THEIR PC===-T "-,'T IXINATICN FROM CIGAPFiTc SMOKE

Dr. J. G. Bur-,ar.Nr. T. DodascnMr. E. C. FieicsrsDr. C. F. Shazzi-

Yr. R. Y. uibbMr. L. C. L.-co.*:*Mr. L. A. ?onel:tr. R. S. xade

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Mr. W. G. N. xarren

SOUTH AF3'_CA

Yr. J. 3. Sisaey

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Dr. C. I. AyresMr. D. E. ConwayDr. S. R. Evei}rDr. D. G. FeltonDr. W. 3. FordyceDr. S. J. GreewMr. S. A. GrewDr. F. HaslaaDr. I. W. !iuahesDr. X. D. Cil:.urnYr. M. E. WillisIir. D. J. ttoo4

y.S.A.

or. J. G. 'esterleDr. R. B. Gri{fiLYMr. T. M. „ade, Jnr.

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Now the reason for raising this point in rather a direct

manner is because of the overriding importancf of making our Group

:•"• Research a successful reality - a reality which can grapple with

:.;;.. situations like this.' Obviously, it can be succesaful Group

'Lr.r :scs aL =2 Louisvilleîeesif and then Mr. Laoorte the view ram anatè: .Iace.

••^"Sr••.'... 7^:1GJ.'C^ . `^^ r f0 C23L71.'Jt2:^ ^^'r: Z'.':;tC ♦ J: JO'::C.S • . . ...' , . . . • . .^: .. ..

+fi.•ti`.:7ZR'.2.1:'.•1• ..J3C 9^S.:A::'LJ:•i 2'.`.^:G:. ...... .. ..r;'.... . . .. .. . -

^•-,•-•^' •r ^-r.••. '3':.1.. ... s- .i..- .^•t• :.•.,'^- .:.: ^. ...,^. ^-. .. . . - -

H. D. Anderson ^ - I want to get througn this moraing"as . n:ickly as _:ss:ble I

_^" _ . . will help that onwards.

our discussions this morning •

'•-tAr. Anderson is qofaq to. open with. a review of t.1e acts.. . ..„. . . . . .. • . ...-.:, . _ . :. . . _.-_ _. ...._•• . ... . . . . ..^. .. . - ^ ^. ..i.

"' " and then I propose to ask tAr. ^7ade to descriê the pict sre as

_-s

. _a_. .. .:1,•

^

•

r

z:...;• rs^::: ....:' .:' . . . • ^ ,don't want to avoid discussien - I know,we have a lot to do, so

:i_- - • . ^ . ,,.••: --'^ -.^_. .. . .......to :nake my part of it as briefas possicle. This is notI'll try •

- •i:^r :_•:. -to be, as I understand it, either only a bacic-<ickir.g sess.or. or a

white-wasning one. What I hope will co-e out of this is a:es:•ive

"•. attit;.•de and some possible Lines of action for the future.

Sir C:zarles said "Let us be frank" - I feel the same •way ab=u: this, .. . .. , - .• .-_

, . .. ::i •^- + -^ • - .. . .too and I'm veryglad that we are all here together now that the

Research if it expresses joint opinions of yo!o all acting as ez:als

with equal responsibilities. _I Aope• • . • . . . .

sitLation has arisen. 'It would have been much more dif.'icu!t to

deal with had we been at our various stati•oos overseas. 3etr.3 here

'"r''• '' together Ihope everybody will say what they want to say and not

^^. ^^r., . ._.... ._. :. .. ..... . :. •^^ e: .-'-K ^-sr Îeave anything unsaid.

a- .. - _....' ''' "• ^2 rememcer when "ldultivent" caae outof Canada that _ao

',e• ^ d di-ec• itòn ;YFy hadz"av r 4'e r . - -^ - • ••toldrrhehadeenas,ce

invented It? Although I hadn't been asked the same thing, :?eit

the sacie way, too. It wasn't any consolation to either of us thatC


.:' :.

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: ... -..... ----. '. ".-. --_ .....

·2t~t~:~~~i}:\;··· ~:Ji~:.~,.r ·r~,,~ "b ,.'.t 1. rothor a ":0« e' • _. ..' ....

. .... "'"'-:", ':':.. ". unn.r 1s because of the overridinCj lmportlnc~ of IUk1ng aU%' O:IQUP .. :....... ,,: "" . : · " ,'- ..

':·:,::,i;.'.:::"';:;.S,,~.;::,,··: Research ~ iuccessful real1ty - a reality wh1t=h can grapple w1:h

-: ;~~;;':i:~·,:~~.:::':' .. ' situatians like this.' Obviously, it can be successful Group ..

:'.:<}~\?j::,,~~~}f:.: .. ;: .. " ':~~search if it expresses jOint opinians of yo~ all acting as e:;o.:a 15 ' .. , . :':"' ... t': ~ .~.~ ~~ •• '~; .:~~: .. : . .' :.

..~. -

:;:.~:;~ .. ~i/~! '. ~.:~:f.":';'-: ~. ~iu help that onw~rds: : ..... :. '- :::.:-:" '., ". . .... ' . . , :.":" : :_C.:~ :!.":.!.;::;:.::- .':-/.\1'. Andersan is 'q01:'19 to. 'open ~1:h}. ·revi.w af t."Ie :ae~s

. ~~""": ... ~ ..... :~...... '''~''.-'''''' . ..i''::. ....... ~:.; :-\... ... ~ 1:'.): : •• :..:. ~';~;'~':"::,,,:':~ .. u_.~.:_ • . . ";"-, .... ;,~: ~nd t!'len I p:opose to uk :41'. i1ade to desc:-H:e the pic:~:-e as . . . ~ : .... ~.. . .. . '.

'; ~C~ ·!f\:-~~M .t ·:1 .......... -.• - • .,..,=,~" r:-=. ~~., ..... ...,., ........ ,., ... ,.. .... :"'" ~: ... ,': ~.:_ ... ,:,:. ... ·.tauisv1l1. ~~~s 1~~.~.~ th.en Mr. t.a!=,orte t!'le view ::-em anat~~:- ;:lace.

.. ,· ... !u.· ~Il.:.t~ ~%. ,!:.'c~.~o:" ,:::--=-",,--: ~" .. t.: .lL~r.·ll",! ~,:.,; ",%~ •. ~~t;"., ~: ::r:..:.e.:. ~~- .. .. ... ~'.:-~; :'.:.~~.~:~ ~ ~ ... , ':.'~ " ... '. :. ," . '.'~::''''''.' .... ' ..... ~.:t .:t.: 'l~r.~:"''\:J~';' :;:":;::00 9.1l :-.ol:.--:.J;. z·::~.GZ -:~:"-:~ :: :.~~:.:r~: ..

.... ,

~>:,~,j:::~: '..:./i:-·~j-:: :~~. i!r=t'.,.;;\.~· ~-·;.~::'~·.t:~ ... :, •.• '~- .;.. h •. ~ I. ,,-. H. O. ;'nc!e::san -. I want t.o qet t.hro\:qn t.!lis mo1':'1 inq, as Citlickl'l as ;::ssiote

•• '. ·4 •

· ~ .... , .• hS~-:" ••. ,; .......... .:. ............ - ... ,,.. .. ...... -.;.~ .., ......... , .• - ': ..•.. . ' .. " ..• : .•... don't Wan: to avoid discussion - I knaw -,,9 'nave a lot t.:I da. 5:1

'. . , .. " ...... -.: . . .. 'I!' .... _;.. .. :,,~.:"'_ .. ;.~ ~ :,' .... -~ ... " •. : .......... ""',. .. : ._1" - -to":- .. ' ...

..... --: .. :.~ .. ~:'~~.~.'" I'U try to :!Iake':ny j:)art of 1: as brier as possible. ih!.s!os .~ot :"" '''c", .. ' •••• - .........

to ~; as I understand tt, .it~er anly a :ae~-~ic~tr.9 ses~i=~ =: a · " .-.'

.-::': !:.\.";.,<,:-~.:': ::-!';1t·e-...asni·~~~on~: ;~What I ·h·~;e~ ~ll ea:::e out of this is a

v; " " .. ' .. ~t :!

··~··I '.' : .. ~ r." '.~" • ~ .• -- -.... - ,. . ...... ,. -,-' ••.• ' •.. , S1r C,"\arles said "tat us Oe ::-an~" - I feel t!'le same 'IIay a!::=~: :h1s

,. ":!: ~ ." - . -.. . .. . .. ".' ... , ...... --'too and I'~ very glad that we a:-e all h.re togeth.r now that :~e

=~i: .... '~ ..... ":t:':".;:'" ~ . " ,-•.•• : ., ... ' •. - •• · . . . sitt:at.on has arisen. 'It wOuld have :een ::t~ch oor. d!.!He\:~ '! '!:I

'i":. ·r .-,-___ -,.. •. '-_ .. - .. ' '" : ...... 1 ....... : ~_. I.··' .. ,. __ .. " : ; ,. .1._, .•.• - ...• deal 'Nith had we been at our various stati'ons overseas. Be!:::} here

~ , .

- .••••.• _. . .......... :. .... -~ .'" C P ... -t...oIIf .a-~ .. -'- :~ -leave anyt!linC; unsaici. . .... -:- . . - . . "- -

.. ~ .......... ~:.: ~;:; ., _.. . ... ".. ...... ... .. .. ......-. -."-" _ .. ' t re:llmber whln "~r!.ul ~!.vent" ca::ll Clue of Canada that :"eo

.. . told ce he had :Ien as~ed a ver( direct ~s:!.on - Why had~': ~e

invent.ed 1t1 Although I hadn't :een asked the same :~1nq. ~ felt

t~. sa~ way. too. It 'Hlsn't any consolation to either cf ~s '!~at

..:; ..

L L.. .~

.~ ....... ·:.".ci .' .~.~

. :~ .. " .... .......... r r ,'1

r r

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r .. r (~

- I [

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1 L L [

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"'" c.o ", ...

both the idea and the execution seemed poor and the value so little

that if we. had put it to our Boards both of us fe:t it wouldn't have• J. .

. .

been accepteii anyway. And it is sti12 not consoling that nothing

has come of it. -I think the question posed by Sir Charles and

probably in everybody's mind so^°time in the last fewweeks is^.._ .. . . • -.

;certainly one to be considered. To point the moral I will add, • . • - . •two more -:the use of charcoal in the Tareyton filter; which I

'was dead against wnen it was mentioned some years ago, from, I••

thought, very good groundslbut quite o':viously I was wrong.

because on examination it does turn out to have sor..e effect on

. volatiles; how valuable the effect is is not yet known but ...

certainly I was wronq in my assessment. I can bear the bad

judgZent but what hurts me is that I didn't thitir of the way in

which in LSontclair the charcoal has been used in its clean state

as an absorbent of menthol. I tl:ink that was a very nice lit:le

I^

IL

trick. The second exanple which comes to my mind is `the lead

which we had on the possible sequestering of mentnol by sugar.

Why didn't we :hink that we could use Polysaccha:ides? Why was

it left to a f2avour chemist in an outside industrf to come up

with it? Not that there is anything in it, but we just did not

hit it, and it's another of the same sor: of thi.^.g. It just

points the moral. . . .: ^. _. . .^: _^ r-+=. .-. •` - . i.7 ^.: O ^L

_,,, • In order to discuss phenols adequately I want to run

through the history quickly so that we can see rr..at there was to

look at if we had wanted to, and what we did look at; to discuss

how important it is and what should we have done andwhat we should

do in the future. I'm making use of a very nice si.-raary which

our Canadian friends have provided and which De Souza has put

together. 3cb' Xade sent me this just before the Conference.

.

` :


.' .. ..:.:... . -. . :~;;,'~;" . '.. .' ~ ,.' .

,,:~12-;.f.:::r~:;..:;_·~_·:._·~-_·~~ .. _·:_:·_~_· -.,-.. ---_________________ ._:--__ . I •. ~.~ •• ~;,.

~~~::~~~~:: .... -.

:f~~' }~~ :~['~~~ '-/:. ". .. .. . ;~'7~~~: ~~ ~ ~:::~ .. >'~" .. " .. .... .. 3 -

::._ ~ ..... . :.f!. 'r' -. '., both the idea and the exec:~t!on seemed poor and the value so little

:-: .':-: ... i;/€~~: ~ .. that tf we. had !,1Jt it to our Boa:"ds both ot us fe!t 1t wouldn't have

;f. ::-/ .~!::.: :~['''.'::.' .:~·~,~~~~-';:<·:-~e; .. ~~C~;::ted any .. y •. And it ;~. st1.li not c:cnsol1ngthlt ncthing ...... -,; •. .I!' ~~ .,.-- ..•. ...... .•.• • \. :5 .. ""' . .fi/ ::t ... ,;-:~.:' ':'.':".,'. :· .. ~a-~;:~~me •. -~~:it. ~I thinlc the c;uesUon posed by 51:' Cha:'les Ind

.:.

_ [. . ..... ~ 'probably i!'\ everybody's mind so~~time 1n the last few' _eks 1s'

~.~: ~~ ... '. .

~ .... ., -:~:''- :ce:'talnly ~ne to be consid~re:. To point the mO:'11 I will add

~~.'" ,

.... --: .... £. -~": .. ::: .... : two m~re - :the use ot chare:lal 1n the Tareyton Hlter, -which I :::..~~ .. ;.... .... : .... ::. .•.... . -.. ~:~~ .-r" .... ~';.:.-:·;~~:~:<~a~ dead aqainst \\'hen 1: ~s ment1~ned soce yu:'s aqo, from, I ..

.... ..:. .' ' •. - th.ouqht. ve:,y goed grounds but .c;u!te o:-/10usly I was wronq...

;~~.:: ~ "'::,:;~:.;:;):;- ': ..... ~eausa on examination 1t does tu=n out to have sor.:e effect on

~. _ r __ :J.~<: .. ~'.;.~.-.. ;. .-.. volatil es ; ........ . _ . ce~ainly I was wrong in my ISsess~en~ •

how valuable the effect is 1s not yet kno~ but

lean bea:, the bad

"~' ... , . ... ... '"

'.

I I I I 1 l 1 L L L L l

'. . ",

j1Jd~ent but what hurts me' is that I didn't thi~~ 0: ~he way in

. which 1n :.Iontcll!.:, the charcoal has !)een used in its clean state

as an abse:~ent of menthol. I think that was a very nice little

tr1ck. The seco~d exan?le ~hich comes to my min: is :he lead

which we had on the possible se~~ste:'i!'\9 of mer.:~ol by sugar.

Why didr.'t we think that we ccul: use :lolysaccha:-ides? I'Ihy ¥.-as

1t left to a tlavour chemist in an outside indus::-! to come up .

with it? Not that ~~ere is anything in it, but we just did not

hit it, and it's another 0: the sa:e sort of thi::;. It just ,} . .

points the moral. ~ :~ .. ~!.". ::::: .!:..-: : • ., r':': ; .... ~:;..:!'. :"'!,'~ .. ,.'=~ :::" ~;~C'.~l

";, ... :"; .•• In or:!e:' to discuss ?nenols ade::;ua:ely'1 want to run

throu;h the history quickly so that we can see ~.at ther~ v~s to

.... , .. look at if we had wanted to, and what we did look at; to discuss

how im?ortant it is and ~mat should we have done- and what we should

do in the future. I'm making use of a very nici s~:,y which

, . our Canadian f:'iends' have provided and whi~~ De 50u:a has FUt

together. :lc})' '!lade sent me this just before the Conference.

, .. "," ......

dti. ``.^^-_:: In 1958/9 Roe and Salaman suggested that the.phenolic. .+:, .

-•^:_ fraction of cigarette smoke promoted tumours and they used

.:....9,I0-dimethyl-1, 2-benzant.'iracene as the carcinogenic agent....•. . ... . ... .. , . . : .

^j^.a Gt S^ ^.. . ..^•^ . _ :s 'l' ... A :..u' .'ti1--S..e'. • , .^ . , ^.^.^. . , .. • . • • ^ ,

1939 Boutwell and Bosch investigated the tumour promoting" '.= =^•• - . . . .. . . . . . .. ... . . • ,

activities of phelol and various subs:ituted:phenols, from w:ich

•itwas clear that phenol was the most active psrt. It also. .. - . . . . . • • . ;:. . . • • -- • '

gave a lead as to what other cowpounds had activity andwhat

did not. Roe is said to be .'ollowing up this nark for all the

phenols reported in smoke %t ► ic.h have not already been tested by

ethese two. C:1• f! a.i `r. -._...... ++_.^. . ...

♦muctifurther - right back to 1939 when Proeti noticed that

, :.. . , : .. . •cigarette smoke adversely affected the flow of mucus inthe

respiratory tract. In 1956 Hilding observed that this was due

to stocpage of cilia activity and demonstrated that ciqirette

smoke caused it. Dalhacr,n in 1959 was the first to measure the

rate of beating of cilia, using lfve rats, rab!:it trachea and

huaan mucosa, and he showed that cilia action camzletely ceased

after 5 minutes ex3osure to ciqarette smoke. In 1958 also,

Kotin, Falk and Tremer reported experiments on the action of

smoke on ciliated epitheli-n of rat and rabbit trachea and of

frogs' mouths. He noted the action of nicotine and some other

materials and, incidentally, found that phenol was of limited

action while the action of ar.r»onia and methylamine and ;:imethylamine

was very auch stronger. In 1961 Wynder an.•'. F'offaan reported on

experiments confirZing the co-carcinogenic action of phenol

fractions for cigarette smoke and, inci:entally, it the`same time

:,t^ ! .,r ,.f^i::•^ :, .. . .. •y

" , - ^a.. , . , . : • • - L ... ... . , . . ...Z.

incriminated volatile acids.

'sThe history of cilia stopping action goes back very

^

.I

L


-....

1 , "

---. :--:. -"--~-

~i~;r ;;;;<~Ji}~1~~:Y~.;·, : . ., ~'(i' -- -... ,,:

;; J: .·t~L~i~iil~~:;:h/~::;; ~::~~.~-':':~~:.~: :~ ':~' ~: .. HC

:. . -'.

.. ..... ,.. . ."

;.

.. ....

•

;. "

.. '!. .'.~: ·f : .••• ~. :.... "';" ". '. '... ..

," •.. ' ".:; ,~~ ';':"\t~'';:fnc:t~~n of .cignet te SlIIOke promoted tumours and they ,.ed ··:~·.·~·.,,·;~~·.··:~':·r~·i' .. v: .. · ~.'.: .. '': '':':~: ...•.. ' .,' ....... - ....... Ii " ., "

. t;::·,~'~;:; • ';:;::; ~ ~ ~~9,lo-d1.methyl-l, 2-benzant.'lracene .. the carcinogenic agent. . .. '~'" ................ " ... ~.;.... . . .... ,,' ", - ~ . . ;':';'::::':?::\~;':;~';::"Il\'i9~9 BoIZtw.U and Bosch inVestigated the t\:DOUr' prollloting

.1 .. • ••••• ~~" .'':'~:.~~ ••• ~ :;~;';""'~7.~', ~ .;', ',. ': .' .............. 0' ~ ". .;

.',' ,,,,~.:, . activitin of phe:'lol an:! va=iaus substitutecLphenols, f::-CIII "'~ich . ' ... ' ": . ~ ., ... - ... ~

. .:::.~.~:~ .. :. '1~ was dear that phenol WlS the most ae~ive I)&rt. It dso

.. ~;:: .. :;~;: :',~: L:·:·. :~'~~~~':;\e~~ ~·~·s ~o' ..n~~ ':~t~~;' ·;cr.::pound"s had ae':.1vi ty and ...nat . .. ; " ........ :,. .. ' . ~:::':'- '.:,: ; ~>. ':~:'-c!i~ ":n~~. R~~': 1~' ~~id "to' ~;~1l0;'~9 u~thiS \'o'Orle for all the

: ,:·.~,.~t;%)bh·~:';t~_ .'~,'?;; :~;i.::~:·~~:'ro~:y . b_'~~ ~:'~"d ~ .. ~ .••.• _:.' ' .. :. t.hese tVllO. ", .... '\: .... !':' .. ". "' ........ : .... 1:. ..... _ ........................ " .••• ~

.,". ~. '~t': ; ... ~ •. :;:~ , ....... :;" " .. ,:. . - . '.~' :.~' .~: e'

~:' •. ~;"'~' •. ,.;..:.:-:: ,~;t~ ~Th. hlst:lry of ci11.a sto?ping act!.on goes ~cJ( very .

'::"~\~:~:~~"::~,-:~.': ,~~~'i.' further right back to 1939 when P::oeu no~!.ced that _.

"~' .. :' .. ' cigarette smoke adve:'sely .:fected th~ flow of mucus In:the .. 0

.:~ '., .- "

' ..

. ...

res=i=~tory tract. In 1956 H!lc!ng observed that this was due

to sto=~age of e!!1a activity and de~nstrated tha~ c1girette

smoke caused 1t. Da1ha~~ in 1959 was the first to mea$~re the

rate of bea~ing or c111a, using live rats, ra==1t trach.a and

~uman lII~cosa, and he showed that cilia action eQIII=lete1y ceased

afte= ~ minutes ex?osure to c!qarette smoke. In 1958 also,

Kat1n, Falk and Tremer repo~ed eX?erime:'lts on the aetion of '. -

smoke on ci11ated e~1thel1~~ of rat and ra==1t trachea and of

f~gs' mouths. He noted' the' acti:n o'·nicQt!.ne and som~ ather

=ater1als and, incidentally, found that phenol was of l11111ted

act!=n ...nile the action of ar.z::onia and lIIethyl.aCline and ~=1l:Iethylamine

waS very much st~n;e=. In 1961, ~ynder ar~ Ho:f~n repo=ted on

ex~erim.nts conf1~ing the eo-ca=cinogenie aetion of ?n.nol

fractions for cigarette smoke and, inel:entaily, it the 'lame t11111

lncrL~inated Volat11e acids.

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In April this yearj we had a preliminary v,arning of

Wynder's talk in Atlantic City which was on April 15th, and on

April 12th Iar.•'xade confirmed't::isf'- gave details of i talk he had

.. • ._.. ._ and Celanese - of phenols in this connection - and the possible

use of tri-acetate by Celanese.^Dr. Griffith also thou7h there

.had with Nlyndar and we learned of the connection between rtynder -

,. •. • _ : . . ..c: •: . ^. a ' '' . -

Lorillazd •and Liggett & Myers. ' ltr. Wade also thou;ht there

, _ .,.__mi_:^t"be a connection between Celanese and Aaerican Tobacco,

:.

`-• -

was a cannectian becvreen Wynder, Lorillard and Tennessee =ast:an.

From all these th:ngs 1 W. contacted both Celanese and =ast.-an.

gy the 'end of April; Eastman's activity was to such an extentr.'s .. _ ,.^''.i•_ s.

that they held a'seninar'at Zug in Switzer:ar.d on April 30th'at, ... _ .. .

which }oucy began publicizing ::enol filtration and its removal

by =stron while durinq May cast-an personnei visited B. 8 W. and

Dr. .Arii°it:; and .s. ',9ade visited :astman to obtaia .r.ore data

and Eastman's method of analysis. 'Then, on May 23rd car:e

Loriliard's*announcenent that Kent had a new '.ilter with a 9;

efficiency for ohenol andtradays later was the :ari:lard cress,..

release, wici I'-+ going to'issti.^u everyone has seen, but I have

a copy if anyone wants to rea,i it. Fromthen on S. Z'ri. had

the':esponsibility of maasuring phenol filtration in order to_.;.,.._.-r

find out how to increase the efficiency of the oacer filters which

they used and to.get low phenol figures for some ai their brar..^ .s.

Incidentally, they looked at Kent and so have one or two ot*er'

people and up to a fortnight ago no one had found any additives

on Kent filters. They also reported on the diffic^lty which

was evident in making measure^ents on phenol.' Now i have

run quickly through this just to show you how you can assess

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• .. .. t''''' 1':: • -., _. ., .':t .. ' ... e_. ••.. ..... "ynder'.~. tali< in Atlantic; C1.ty which was on AprU 1~th. 'and on

,', . :....t.~ ...... _-:. __ .... .: ........ , ................ .a s.. ' ... _ .' .. .. .' .',.' April. 12th !.\t:''.'tOlde conHrmed' this '. gave details o! I tal,!c he had

',:t

... "':1It '. ~., .. - ..... - ,- .. \ .. ".. .. ~. . '" '.. , "'11"_ • '. .. .. .. • had with :'lyndcr and vie learned o~ the COMect1.on between \'/ynde:

and C~'l:J.·n~~·a :,··o{~phfnC;l~· ·1.n' tM.s"cO~~"ction· ':"an: :he 'possi~le ... - ..... • ~ ".- . . ,:.J..' - .,., _...... '. ~ . -

, use o! tr!-ac:etate by C-:l:J.nese. Or. Gr!.H~-:h also t!':oujh there ." • .,.,,:. .. ~ .: • :... "'.... ...... , __ ""'_ .. ..: '" .t.- ~ ~;,.. .. " ..' •

ml;ht'be a connection betYleen Celanese and A:neric:an !o!::Jac:C:o. ." '.";

' •• ~';'.-<l" ."~;' .. _ .: .... :0, •· ... \··,,..:,:.,:.,1 ........ \ •...• :,.:. ...... _.~. '. • ... ". " Lori..1.lard "and' T.ilJ~ett & Myers. '!.\~. Wade also thou;!'It there ' •• ",

-;. '::!j!": '. , ...... - .. \_~ •• : ..... ~~: ... ' ..•. , ... ' ....... r .... '_ .' ",

was a con!'lec::ion between Wynder. t.ot'i1l3rd and Tennessee ,,!ast::an •. .. ....... ~,.f"'_ .... _:~~ :..,_:.'~~_~ ........... .

f~OI:\ all -:hese th~ng$' S: .& ~l. contac:ted ~th Ce'lanese and ;45::::31'1. •• r.C':.:'!'~i:, .• :.~ ... ~ .. _, .... -~-- ~ -,.','; •... ~ .............. : .......................... "

Sy th.e end of Ap~il. Eastman's A,tl.v1ty was to such An extent -r'. ~'" "".,- ......... -. "~ .. 1 ~ ' .... \ .. " ... " t

ttla~ they held a"ser.\inn "at 'lug in Swlt%e::,!ar::l on ,\!)::,U 3C:h 'at ..' ',a t .,. \' •

which 'ro~;.;'beg~ri'·;;!::Jli~·1:i;9 ";:he";ol -Hl:"NtI.O"n' 'And 1:s rem""al ..... : ..... ~ •••• ' .. '!= .-, •••• _ ............ ~: .,'

by ;st::m · ... 'h!.le during May Eas~::an ;le:sonnel visited 3. & W" and -.... '. .... ""'.

Or. ar:d .',~. \'lade visited Eastman to ol::ta:'n r.:Qr~ data

... ,. .... .._- .. -. ...... .... ..:. t.o:illard's·announeement that Kent had a 'new !ilte::, w1th a ;0%

..... . :" .. -..... ........ -.. ' ....... e::iC:ien~y fo:, ~henol aM t,,~ days latC!::,"was :he ~rL~lat'::i !!::'!SS

,... .... ':- ...... - .. ~ ..... :. . ... -..... . release, ~'hic:h I'm 90ing toass~e everyone has seen. but I have

a copy ;i ;nyon~ 'w~~t; t;';e;t·i~.- 'Fr~-the~ 'dn 3.·? ?t. had :?::- .. "...- t, '._.. ',. __ .,. ~ _, • ' ...... ~. •

the :es~onsi=il1ty of maasu~ing ~henol fLl::a:ion in o::e: to . . . . .. ". ; . ., .. -- . ~ ;'" .... ,... '. . .... ; --. . .. -

find out how to inc~ease'the efficienc:y or the ~a~~ f~lters w~ic:~

:hey used and .~~ "g;i i~~ "~h~noi il~~S - for' s~~~ 0: t~ei:,=ra~::!s.

Inc:icien;~i.i;~ they l~~~;d ';e" i;nt ~~~d 's~"ha~~-on! '0: '~w~ other' ~ :

peo~le and up to a fOt'tni;h: ago no one had fou~::! any'ad::!~-:ives

on Kent filters. They also re~o::,ied on the dif:ic:~lty ~~ic:h

was evident in ruking measu:e:::ents on phenol.' Now I have

run quic:kly through this just to show you how you can assess

pm

,

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the answer to the question -,Could we have foreseen what was

going to happen? Obviously the answer is "fes, it was all there."

If we chose to read the riSht things and out the right-bits

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Jogethe= we could have predicted all that Lorillard said, and. _c:.^. _^ _ . . . .. . ._.. . . . ...•^^ . ... .

lncidentally.much of it could have been taken from the articleC :

' . ^ ^r: ... . `. ._..^• ^ . ^ . . . ^_ _

of Falk, Tremer and Kotin of November 1959. Looking at it more ei

.-deeply coul3 we have foreseen i•? The general shaoe of things

yes, I t' i:.k - the arecise nature of the event is a little more.:^• t: . . ' .. ' ... .

r. .. . .._ _ • . . • . .^ . _1

difficult. Lorillard had Norxed with ',Iynder before and we kneN..^... - ..

what "Jynder was an to.We could have foretold that the next -:

Wyrsder thinq was aheaols, i=licated by the.. co-carcinogezic action.- . ._ .._ . ,. ...... . .... . _.- . • •

and accoRzanied by some activity of cilia. But the course of the:.. . ... .. .... _. ... ._.. .._. .. .... __ . .. _ . .. ....

event and when it was goi^ , to happen is much ,are difficult.. ... __ _ . , . . .. .. . ... .. . s .. ... . _. . -.L: •: . - • • - - •

,(Jus: a little di;ressionhere as you know,

•

!u s decided that all its biological research should be done on

indust:/ basis. If, in fact, this had been the case in this

circumstance then Lorillard could not have come out with such.. _ . ._. . . ..... . ._ ...... ..^.:_..

pronouncenents. This is a good reason for doing medicai and

biological research industry:vise ar.d it points out the danger

which r..ust be expected waen any single firm goes it a?one.). . . • .. . .. . . . . . - -- - ... .. . . . .^cr .. _

^ 4ihat did we do arout 117 I think we made a good guess. .. . .. .,.. .. ..... .. ----• .. ._ , . . - - - -but that our timing was badly wrong. Discussions•which I had in

^•.>^ positive action to:•rards the health question and as a result. . __ . .. .._ _.._ . . . , _ . ,_.. .. .

when I got back to London I wrote this letter to Leo Laporte

in :dcr.:real and to 911l Re:d in Austra'_iaa

Montreal in March showed that we were anxious to take a more

'I ran out on my return a quick draft of a`progra-e

cover`ng the diect attack on the health prablem which you and I- ,® •: . . . :

discussed with `:z. Keith. It covers more than the two subjects


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: .. --:.... '- .: ...... ., the .n.s~r to the questlc:'l -, Coul~ we Mve foreseen wha~ was :.. :;:':. .' .. ' .. ~... .. " .. " -e· 1 _ •• -:: ._;_." ... ", •••• ' ••• ':. ..... ___ ,"

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going to ~&ppen? Obviously the answer is ~Yes, it was all there.-• ", ';.". .. .• t .. .... eo. ".. • • ... .' •••••• ' ., .. " •• "

.. :. ~,.'. If we =-"0" to read the' ::1c;ht things and out the 'right bits • . • :.~.'.':-: ... :: .. ~i,f ... ~:· :~:.~:'" .... . ....... ~.,.; . .:: : :-.c" ... ':', ...... : •• ':~ ..• - ......... __ .a. .. :'~'; ~

-.'.=:' ~:.:. :. ". togethe:: we could have precHcted all that Lerillard said, and ". : .. ::..:·~·'~:7-; .. ;;·.~7 •. '" .. ~.,,~' .. :' ', ..... :···.~": ..... ·.":::.-t.:: .. ·· . .•.. , ' .. _', '.: ': .~ ............ :. :t:l

.• ',; ..• " lncidentall y .1II\.I~h of it coul::! have been taken from the Irti~le ' ....... "~;.~ ... ' :.: .... :..... .~.:. .~: ... :~.~.";'~ '.-: ... .. ••• :". - ....... -. ~ .. ~ .. ~~-- &::~=

.... ". of rallc, Tre::ler and !<oUn of Novec:ber 19~9. Leoking ae it more

.:'. :.': ::'.:·.:~~i·.:~;.~~~'~:.~O~l:;. we. ha.v:e ..•. ~;i~~·;e~;·~1·~·~_ ~~e .. ge~~:;a(s~a~o.~ •. ~;~~t;~~~~~.::: ...... : 'yes, I t~i:,.k - the precise n.1ture or the event 1.s a lietle mort .

. .".,:: .. '::.~·:·i~:d~~;l:'~~l~" ·t.~~~l1.~;d ~~~;~~·~ed· 'with "Iynder 'ce~o';'e~-~n~':~' ;:e:;-;;'.1 .... ~, .. ..... ~ .. ~:.>i~~· ....... ~ .. -: ...... - '''''.' -_. :. -~7 ." .......... .... •. .. "~" .. · ..... 0.: ....... 0':" : ... ' .tl.~:.

.: .'.' ',' •• '. what ':Iynder was on to. \'4e ~ould have foretold that the next _ ,.,' . :.' ~! .. :.; ..... :!' ... _- " ~ .•• : ...... - (W. ............ " ••• 0 •••••• • t.~ .'. ~ ........ ;. ~c,':~

." :.: ;':" ., WynOer t.hl~9 ~as che~ols, i:=licated by the!: co-carc:ino;e:tic action .~"".'~~ '::~ •• ~ ... : : ••••• ~:. p ••• "'- .... ' .. :- _ ••• "' •• ' \' ....... - ..... _ ... --- ! ..• ,. ~ .... ~: ','

:.:"." ... ~ .• ~" and a~~o:':\;::ani~d bY some a~tivity of ~l.Ha •. Sut the course o! the : .. : .' .• '. - ........... - ............. - ......................... ' •..• '. ~ ._ ..... '''' •• ~ .... •• -i. ' .• .' ...... ; •••

. ' .. z': event and when it·';'a~ "goi::; to happen 15 mu~h ::ore .dH,!icult. .,' ........... .. ••• --- •.• '.;~ .•• - .............. - : " .......... -- .... -~ .. · .. t ... .:, •. ~~.,

:.' .:.' .. ,:'.~_". ,.' .(Jus: a l1ttle cH.;:-ess10n.he:-e - 3-;".7., u you know, .' '" :', ..... - .. : ... - .. ...... : '. ~. ," ~. ..' ...... - ,.... ., ...... - ..... . ,.... ": ... ".~ ........ has decided :hat all 1ts o!oloc;ical r~searc.h should c~ cone on

.•

. .-.',. -. .. . ... '... .. ..... _ .. -.... '. ..; ::.. . . '.

incius t::y basis. If, in fa~t t th1.s .• ~.l.~ :e.en th~ .~.~s.e.. :'" .. :h~S.

~ircumstance then Lo:-illa:-= ~ould not have ~aoe out ~!th su~h ' ........ '1 •• toO: ; ..

This is a good .eason for doing med1.eal and ., .. - . ..' . ..... . ...

which must be expe~ted ~en any single fi:-::l qoes it .alone.) . : .... '" - ~:: ........... ..: ...... . .' .. -.... . ' ,.. ~What did we do al:Qut 1t? . I think we made a good quess -:.... "'" .............. '":.':. ............. - : ....... -. . .': -

but tnat our timing was badly w=ong. 01seussions'wh!~h I h~d in .... :.... .- ... -......... ... -.. ... .....

Mont::eal in Ma:ch showed that we we:e anxious to take a more .. ." "" .. " .. ' . ..' ;

. positive action t~.~rds the health question and as a "result .. -... :... ............ -....... , ... , ., .. :-~:-.' when I got ~clc eo London I wr~te this let:e~ to Leo lapo:te

in !.\cr.t~eal and to 9ill i\e!d 1.n Aust::allu

-I ran out on my return a qui~k draft of a ~::oc;r~~e

coveri~; tho di:-e~t attack on the health p:-oble= whiph you and I

d!s~ussed with ~r. Keith. It ~ove::s ~ore than the two subje~ts

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.:nwe discussed because there is a strong feeling here that t; the

general irritant effect, and by this I mean not only aldehydes

L.^ but also acids, bases and cilia-stoppinq'oropxrties,'may be as

:..muc4 to blame as any synergic effect. In fact , lt*is difficult

to draw a line between a co-carcinogen and a plain Irritant.

They may be,factors at either end of the same scale.

s=. ,,The feeling at S21llbank is that ste:a is' i^-.plicated•

in this as bein3 largely a producer of ir_i_aats. I-amnot

sure thatthis is true, but certainly I include I. in the Lines

of investiystion. ' 9ctt .ir ..--.:' .`.-.. -i . . ... , . . , ...... •• ...^. . • . . ' . .

What I have done is to try to se: ouf a;,.oyra^^te

based on the ideas we have and wtiich can be worked on byyour

g.oup, and by Southa_-.pton and Australia. ' It is very :ou3h, ts:t

:I thought it best to get se etling out r,uickly to circulate to

you and the other two ;roups in order to get some helpful

advice and su:,,estions. Louicville, it see.^^s,' have notA the

time nor t::c strength to join in this pro;ect at present. I

should be ;rateful if you w=u:i please discuss this with

^_.Bob aade and 'dr. Keith and let me know you. thou^,hts."

Now it's easy to lcok back and say that i only

wish I had sent a copy of that letter to Mr. T. M. Wade at B. Z tY.

In fact, didn't because the urgency was not apparent at that

ti-e and thought we had at least a year, possibly two years,

looking shead, and I thought :'d have p?er.tf of time to'get t^e

answers back and the ::oCra.^-e discussed 'cr-fore sending over to

Louisville who could not at that time have joined In it. Well,

it's easy enough to say "Yes, r.•e were thir_;ing about it", but

there you see the ti.inq was co.:aletely wrong - we were thin°cing

abou;. it too late. The general review of the work being done in


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,~~ dl.sc:u~sed because there is a stronq feeling here that the! :, '

.,r .~e.n,l'!r~1_,,1::ritant effect, and by this I lIIean not only aldehyde; , ,.,,'... " , -: " • -, '. >

~~, bUt .also acids, bues and cl.lia-stopp1.ng 'cro"ert!es, 'lIIay-'be-','s'" ..... , .

• ' ,lIII.:ch to blamc as any' syne::-;ic effec:t. ....... ,'.. . to draw a line between a co-ca:-cinogen and a plain ~:-ritant. -',

'~:.!~ey m!lY be facto:s at eithe::- end of the sa!::! s~31e:'

Co The feeling at' ~.ullbank is that ste::! is' i:::;:ll1c~t!!d'~:'

___ in this as bein; largely a ~::-oducer of irritants; .. '._" ... ~ . - ....... .- ...... I am not '

~u~e that this is t~e. but ce::'tainly I include 'it in'the l~~~s

~ :.~~:.l~~~sti;ation~ ,.: ,~~,~,,:-~~,:' ':'r:.,~:;~~ "~~:':-~~(~".:-:-:"~:." ~t'-':,~ . ,,' '=~, 'flnat I have done is .to t':Y, to set out ,,~ ~:-o:;:-a!:'!!lc!

based on' the ideas we have and "'111ch 'can ~ wo;iced on' by -;,ou:- '~ . " .' ...' . . .. ) .. : ......... ,

g::ou", and by Southa:::pton and Australia •. I~ is very. rou;!'I, ':ut

~t thought it best to get sc:::e:!'l1ng out quickly to'circulate to

you and the other two ;roup~ i~ o:-dC!:- to get some helpful

advice an:: sU:jJutions. t.au;~·Jille, ~t see::lS,. have ~~t' the

ti~e nor ~~a str~ngth to join ~n this p~o5ect at present. I

shou~d b!! ;:-a:e:ul if you ~~u:d plaase discuss t~is with

• ~ ;Bo!) ~:ad! a .... d M:-. Keit~ an::! let me know yol.::' t~ou'j!'lts."

.;.:1:,~2 :Now 1t's easy to leoi< back and sa,! that I only

wish I .had scnt il copy of that letter to Yo:-. T. M. Vlade at S. !. \'1 •

In fa~, ! didn't !)ecause the U~gency 'Has not 'apparent' ,at that

t!:::e and • t~our;!'It ~1t I",ad at least a yea:-, "ossi!lly tviO yea:-!,

anSwers :ack and the ~~;~a~e discussed ~::re sending over to

Louisville who could not at t~at Ume have joined in it. Vlell,

it's easy enou~h to say "Yes, ~1t were thir~1n; about it", cut

there you see the tl.::ting was co~.phtely -.:~g - \"Ie WI:-e thinking

abou,t it too la:e. The general review of the "''eric being dcne in

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divertible from the other things they were doing so it would need

health and that if we wanted any greater enphasis on it we would

need to put more strength on it andaore strength was not readily

By this time, of course, the whole thinghad burst

ns7 ..:.7 ': 5: ... c .. ... ... ....: •• ..

How i,nsportant is phenol? There are two sides to this

._••the scientific side and the political attitude. Let's be quite

certain about this: the political implications have it the moaent

'adequately in a letter from Add Yea:aan, the lawyer at B. & W.

by far the greater importance and they have

and has been i-melicated in the cancer proble:n, the ar,.ent would

made i'tp::b_icly knot•si that the connection between phenol and,: . ' • . . • .. .

e3lia aeticitp, and because cilia activity goes back a lon; way

Now that Lor::lards have come right out into the open and.. ^ _ ..: - . .. • • . .. .. . .

"I. The uninhibited move.^..ent of the cilia tends toeject

run Iike this - I quote .°roa Ycaman's lettcr:

__from the lung (or irpede entering into the lun

particulete matter.

2. It is known that phenol inhisits the action of the cilia.

3. It is known that pheno2 occurs in the inhaled s:toka.

4. It is now knort: that phenol content of the smoke can,

.,.^ Query: In this state of knowledge is it negligence on the

by use of certain additlves in the filter, be very

substaatia?ly reduced. : ' •• `J ••,...

part of the cigarette ^anufacturer -either

(a) to faii to remove phenols, or, '•

(b) to fail to warn cons-ners of the product of;

its potential danger?"


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'0 ':.' ••••• ·SouthAr.lpt:::ln snowed that III:.1ch of the present werle was liined It .. ::-' ,"

..•. hollth Ind tn.t H we wanted any greater mphu1s on it we WClul.:J

nud to. put more strenCJtIl on it ancl. wer. strength wu not readily

";'.(. :.:,~.\) ~'.~'., d .. lv.ry!bl. from til. otl\n things tn.-y wen doing .0 it wel.lld need olio. .. • • • - •••• ..... •

~ .:~~-. ::.~~~.>~/: ::<fi.~Sh.· p~opll. 'By this 't1~'. '~'f course; the' wnole 'th1~9 had burst ,' ..

,... .~ ': .. :.: .

' .. .' .,'. .. ;." . :" '-.:

on us. .. ;-~ '.-~':-." :, ~:! ...

, ...... ;," . ., How i~portant is phonal? The~e Ir~ two sides to t~is

O'the scientific side an::! the pol1ticd attituee. . ;~. --::, {:. ... :.~.. . ..

. ".' ce:-taln abcut this:, • the pol1tical Impllea~!.ons h.ve ~t the ma~~nt

.. : .~~::"o ... ';. .. :.:~~. :t~';'· t~e gre~ Urlll\;)o;t:n~e' and they hive ~en st:.::\ed 'up very . ':: ........ -.~.--...... :- .. , ..... '.. ' .

. , ".": ..... '.: •.. ' adequatily in a Ietu:, :r:::llll Add YU::I.1n. t~e lawye:, It B. " W. . ,..., 0': " ...... < !". :-N~~ that I.o:'~!l~~:!s have eel'll~ ;ic;ht out 1nto the open and ':-.~~.' . ':,-;:';' :'~.' \ .~:~: ... ~.' ."

.::: ,"'~ , . aad~ 1't p::b:!'c:l y k:'lo\'.f\ tholt the c:onnec:t!on b~tween ",neno,l an~ ." :

~ ....... . .. J. •

.. cUi. act1-r..-:y, a!'1~ b&lcause cili. act1v~:y 90.5 bac:;C • l~nq way '.. ' •• 0· ....

. :.~ '. ~~:.:.. and has be~n 1.~~1 icate:! in the canet::' prc:ler:t, ~he ar;\ • .--:.en-:. \~uld

run like this -.~ quote !r~ Yeaman's le~tc~1 . .,. ~., " .

-I. Tne uninhiblted movc~cnt of t~e ci11a tinds to' eject

))articulate matte:.

2. It is kno~n that phenol 1nhi=!.~s the action o! t~e cilia •

3. It 1s known that phen~l oc~urs 11"1 the inhaled S~ki.

•. _._ •. 4. It is ~ lcnO\':t'l that ;:anenol conte:lt o! the smQlce can,

~::~~.:.' by use of certain adc::!!'';ives in thl! Hlte:. be very

;0.' '.~, :., substa.:'It!.ally reduced. t • ••• ..

~"::;;; ?uery: In this state of kno\'Iledqe is it negligence on the

par'; of t~e cl;arette ~anu~3ctu~er either

(,) to fail to reoove pnenols. 0:. '

(b) to faU to warn consl.."IIflrs o! the p~uct ot

- .- --.-

,

~ ~, ~

0

'"" ~ ~ ~ 0 ...:::-:, ;-"

-4-

.

•;rI,think that everyone can seethe importance of those,s;._..- ._. •-..__.. .._.._ ..

eonsiderations, particulariy in the States where already thero is.., ------ - ---- .- - •- -,- . .

:•legal action going on and where in those legal actions witnesses. . . _,. .. , .. ._... = --• - •- . . , ..d ct d a:ave ev e ccn iderable art of tseir testimon to the effect, , p , y

of tobacco smoke an the cilia of the tissues of the Lvng.

On the scientific side there is some doutt, I think, a5outa'r.s .. •;. ^, ..,._. r...._._ _... .. . .... ,^

.the guantities o f phenolin% . sa:oke. .It is . usually alleged to be

around 200 nicro;ra=es per cigaret,e unfiltered,^ with the lesser--.^ . .^.. . _ _ ,. _ _... . ..

eoc.ponents - cresols -.,about 70 -.100 mfc:ograr.me°s, with appreciable

;. - ard the`di.ethyl phencls. Now, of. those con:pounds knoxn to be

in snioke, only a certain nuc+ber have been shown to be co-carcinogenic

.ar..ounts af:guaiacol, catechol, resorcinol,.quinol', the ethyl phenols

and that is probably x':y East»un picked, on only a. certain nu.:.:er

of these to give in their analyses. .:,,^:; ,:•:^• ..

Tennessee °_astmal ^. ^t!ic70cr3-rn-s ae- cfaare_te

.. -.. .. 183.

O.tho-cresol 7 :, r - r•-

^,_Meta and para cresols •_ ... .. .... .. . . • .

O.tho-ethyl-phenol_ -^a-

3:4-Dimethyl phenol .,; ^ ;_. ._ . r .. . . . . • ^ Y:. 'l.• 6.) . . ^. ...

.... •l:.. ne .:) _ :.^ .. . .

^,.4:Theinteresting t^ing when you ceme tothink about it is

that, at.about 10 o:11 puf.'s per cigarette and j00 micrograrnnes

takenasohenol, this is.getting on towards 900 or 1000 millisra.r,.es

per cu. metse while the .taxi.zL-n Allowable Concentration is 19 for a

working atrasphere and the threshold,of smell is 1.5. The irr..ediate

thing that springs to mind is why doesn't one smell phenol in

cigarette sr.oke, and one next thinks of the ti.^_es when phenol is

c--05.

4Q^_


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9 - C! -.. -.... _.t .. think that everYone un see the importance of those . ...• .. .. .6., ..•.•. __ ............... _ .. - ." "

, . . . considerations, particularly 1n t!le States v.nere already theT't' is ... ,' ',... ............. _.... ....... ~":-...~. ....:',... ... .. • I. 1 .

.. ' •... ; ;.ltiqal action going on anC where in those legal actions witnesses ~ .~: .. :-~~ ~ '.~_'.-:.;"... ':_:' .: ....... :.0_ ••••• _ ._:. ; ........ _-: ..... ," .. : : .. ~ •

'. •· .. .;::,~ .. ·.have $fevClted cansiaerable. part afthei: test1mony' to the effect ..' '~ .. _: ............... e. __ J ...... _...... ...... •

. :';"";;,!~ ::~b~.C.~O.,S!l'~_k~ :~~ th"e .. ~1,l~.~.~or .. the :.is.~ues af .the lung. . .'

..·:·s:r.~.~ .. : :(~.:, :::9,r: :.~~.:::~e!:~.in.7 .s,ide th~.;-~ 1s,\s~=e do~l:t. I think, a:Ol.:t .. ~ . ." . . . . .' .. ~. ~~;.~~ ... -:.q~~~.Ut,I,e~ __ of~ ph~!,_o} .. in, ;sa:o~e: . .: g .. i.s, usually alleged to be :. ".'. . . . .' . . . . ...

'., a:'Qund 200 rnic:o;ratl'.::es pe:- cigarC!':.:e un!!.ltered, with the lesse!' __ ~." .............. ~ .... - ...... -.. C"."- .......... • ..... . : ..... . . . ,

. ... ', . '.-

. .. . . '. " _ar.:o\l~ts of .qualacol, catec:hol, ruo:ci:\ol,. quino!', the ethyl phenols ............ -...... ~', . . ... " .' .. ' '. . .

In: ~he dI:lIC!thyl phencls. Now, of. ~hose cOlr.pounds knov.."'1 to be • ..... ' iii '. ,:. • ••• -

., :"; '. ' ...... ~ : ... ", in s::talce,- only a certain nl.l:lber h~ve been sho ... n to be co-carcinogenic .... .. ... .......... : .. .'

1~7 _:.~at !~ 1?1:'~!:lably. v.-!ly :ut::lan picked. on only a:. ce:tain n1r.lbe:

of thes! .~o .9ive .~n,the~:.analyses." .• :.,'): .. :,:,:~, .. : ~ :. :-',

. •• O:tho~:~s 01 .. -",.. . ............... . ., ,. r ~ , '.-

• '; :,~M~.t.a :an~ ,~a.ra .. cres.oh. .' .

•••.. O=tho-ethyl-phe:\ol .. ' ' .. ~-: ~ i ' ..... .......... ...--:.. ... \_ ..

193 ...

38 ) )

SJ) '-~- • ) 141

. ;14. ) )

:.-j 6,} :.:~,;.:;:~=-

,.: •• __ The interesting thing ... -hen you ccme to thInk about it is !. .. ... .... ..... . ... .." - ....... .... ... ,

that,. ~~.' ~bout .. 10 9~_ ~l puf.fs pe: ci;a:ette and :leo r.1ic:-og:-a:nrnes

tlken as phenol, this is.gett!ng en towa~as 900 or 1000 m111i;:-a~es 6_ •• " ........ •

pe: cu. mee:e w!lile ~!'Ie ~.tax!.::\1 .. -n Allo ... a!=le Concentration is 19 :or a

~~:kinq at=os~here Ina the th~esr.old·of smell is 1.5. The i~edt!~e

.'thing ~hat springs to ~1na is why doesn't one s~ll phenol in

c19a:e~te s~~ke. Ind ane next thinks of the tL~s when phenol is

---_ .. _.---

•

,

• . . .._. _. ., : . ..... • .. . '. .. . . • . ,.: .

used in modicaments for anaesthetizing tissues, for ixample,. . . . ^.

calamine lotion to prevent itching, and can it be that the phenol' • . .. • • . _ . ,itself is responsible for blunting the sense of smell; isthis

why, forexartsple, cellulose acetate filters and paper filters give^ .._.•.^,. -•..TV^.^ , . ; . .

. . . .. . . .. ^.

a different taste, -(they are allegedtto give di.°ferent fil:rat2icn

:• efficiencies for phenol,) - and can It be the explanation x1hy when a

filter is attached to a cigarette it is easier to taste differenees

in the blend? There'is the interesting speculation that maybe

-s:the best reason for taking p.yenol out of the smoke is not the^. ..... .. . ^.. • • . . ^ .

.::health one but because what is left in the smoke night taste better.

Another incidental thing which is seen on lookin^, at the. . ^ . .. • . , . . . .

figures is that Kent is claimed to be down to 12 raierogra.-es per. . ... . .;. ... - • ' .. . ' .

cigarette.j'2 thin3: as a Kir.g Size cigarette this will give abut

. . ,'. ,12 puffs which is equivalent ta 28 milligra:snes oer ca. retre,

which is quite close to the 'daximt.-a Allowable :ancentration, wr.ict-

may or =ay not be si;r.if:car.t. However, al these phenol fiRres,

I think, are a little bit su:,iect to doubt. The analytical aetnods

are a little suspect and most of the figures have been obtained by

the same method of analysis. This really does require confirmation.

This is where Southa-pton can make a major contrlbution.

f3^ .

Now what should we have done? On the »aole I an inclined

to think that two years ago we ought to have had a more positive

approach-to this whole problem of producing "safe" cigarettes,

whatever interpretation you may like to put'on "safe" cigarettes.

This would* however, have needed a change in outlook and policy

which I think now we are only just beginning. •My oxn opinion is

that we should have got little symcathy and encouragement for such

ideas two years ago.


." eO, .-

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.. ~~.~-_ .. ~._:t:i-.. ' . :.:... '.;'':-:. :~ .. :,,_ .. ;":;,' ;. - ." .. ~ -:_ .. ~ ''1- ~ • '.; ~".'

t s,., •. ' ..... . ...... .': '.,

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~., '0 •

t .. · ~ ~ :'.~~ ;;~{~.' ustd in 1IIOd1c:aft1ents tar anaeSth.tid~9 t1SSU~s\, . for .~a:lt:, . •

~'.'" . .: ~:. . Q13=1n. lotion to pr.v.nt 1tch!ng, and can 1t l» that the phenol ~t ':. . '," ... ' ..•.. : "\ . . . . ',_ ·0 40.... .. ..• ... c ••• · •

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itsel~ is r.sponsibl. tor blunt1ng the sens, of $mall; is this" ';" ~ • '0 ... ~:.~

. wtIy, for .xamF'l., c.llulo •• ac.tate tUter. and 'paJ:)el' t11,:.:-. 'give .""7.t,:".:. ..•• ~, •.. ; •.•. ~~~ .. - .':' • ~. '.. ___ '" '\.

.... "a clifferent taste, ~; (they ar. allege<Hto give dHfer.nt £11 t::atfon • . I,' •

. '. ' . - ~- -- ,:' . .. .' . •. eHi.c!.~ncies fo,:, phenol.) - and Can 'i~ ~ :h,' ,x?lanaUon ,,~y 1oIIi'Ie:n a

filt,r is attached to • ciga::'tte it is .as1,: to tast'·di~fe::'nies ' ... '

Ther,'15' th' interesting s?eeulatio:'l th~t "~ybe - . .. ,- :_.' :., •• ,.~ '.~ •• : '0 , •. ' • '.'

·~:th.·best· r.as~ri"fo:: taking p.''1;noi oUt of the s~lc' is not'the • : .. ::. t··".to ~::!:.' .. : ... ~ .•.. : .... !..;.... .. ..

.. ~:h'ilth one but because what 1s left in the smoke might taste·better.

'. ' ... '; ~. ':~~ : ... :: .... ·t,,~~~·~r . i~~idental th~~~' ~;~ ch is "en on 100k1n;' af :he . ~ :. ~ ...... :.: •. :.', ... ":.. ! :.... .

~'.! figures is ,that K.nt is clai.=led to be down to 12 cic::og::a=u '=er ... ' " ............ h·.~ . ~"t~.. , . ... ... .... . ' .. '. ..

c1;a::ette. ,':I th1nk as a Kin; ~1U c:iga::ette this will g1ve a!lout " .... "-- :.;. ... .. -.~ ... '."... ,,\~

12 puffs ~.leh is equ1valent ~o 28 m1111grammes oe: cu. '~e::!:'

m~y 0: ~ay not be s1;r:1!icant. Howeva:. a1 these ?heno! :1~:es •

I t!'linle, are a li:th :it sue.i.':t ':0 dou:'t. 7he inaly':!.c.11 :l\e:!'Iods

are a lit:le sus?ect InC mos: of t~e fiqu:es h.lve be.n obtained by .. " ...

th~ s~~e method of analysis. This really cloes ::equir. confirmation.

This is whe:e Sou:ha:::;lton can malee a Nj or cont:!b~tion'''' -~. :

Now ",-hat should we have done? On the "hole I a= lnc:t1neci . ...

to think th~t two yea:-s ago "' .. ouC;!'\t to have had a n:ore I'os:.t:. ... e

approach.to this whole F'roble= of p:oducing "saf," cigarettes,

whatever inter?retation you may 11ke to put' on Msa!e" cigarettes.

This would. however, have n.eded a chan;. in outlook and polic:y

~~ich I think now we are only just beg1~~ing.· 'My OIOn C?tnic~ is

that we sh~uld have got little sym~athy and encou:-a9~ent fo:- such

ideas two y.a:-s ago.

-_.:.-.-----_ .... - .. __ .-.. __ . __ ... __ ..

'., .. -_. ,

. ... - .. '

...i . ,

'\ I '. I

;',

.' .

Our basic prograaaie of investigation into snoke production

and smoke filtration I have looked into and I find nothing wrong'a^- ^..,• ^C ._::jl. ^^^ . 9• I:J , . :y : ..

.._.. Sa•.Y .... .

with it. It was good when we laid it down and it seems stillt•:rq Lv'te2v e -nfl- r••-=

:a•.•-' : good now. We can certainly argue about whether we should have hadrti tis.^^- • °a •1 i ^•v^: e; ,r . _ .. :^: .. _ _ .......... .._ _

more strength on it, particularly on.that part dealing with selectiveis:n^.^c: ^= 10 -.s .. :.: ..........._. , _ . ...... ...-- -

filtration, and I wonder if Louisville may feal that this work should• rt. c»^ a .:.,^- . a;:: ^ . :c-. . cl • .,. . ...

be much further forward in Southampton than it now'is. I think •^!a!' . ! • ,z•:nc_ :e : .:0 . . . - ._ . . _ . ..s.: FZ 'ai: r

we would all like that, but I would warn against onder-estiauting -.:D a', _. _.. . . .... . . . _ . . .:.. . . . . , . ..

what has already been achieved. I would also point out that quiteatt nt^: io tzcw c: : • ,.:c..c_- .:..- -^..

:-. s a 10' of effort in this area has necessarily been diverted over

:s_23s.1o, L-•'t_.aRw ..---practically the rhole of this year by wa:k an Car..zound A and on the

at r:_^1 0.!-- ...Reynolds' flavour patent.

• - ^ .•'• 1 • ••{cz nâa1:!z, t.•.na::; o: r: ve_ic:._ r,. 4r._::•.:-•• ,:• _

Louisville turned to Southaraptcn for help on the CelaneseJieaô:, :• r..: c ....` aar .. ..... - ^ - .

.• t:iacetate filters and on phenol prcble•:s generally, and I hope we'!^^ja•J:ia !►j^ lr .. .1i^.^^ .... :S^_ . . . .. „ . . . ... .• , .

shallhear this morning about some of the results Nfiich incidentally,

a nz:crlike Louisville's, have been obtained by the uie of midnight oil.

b::a: er• . ...._ . -:. ._ _ .

Yesterday, Bob Griffith mentioned t:^•e necessity for a la:orata:y

9:14 6: •`. . .'i• • .. .... .._.. .. . . '

to be equipped to tacRle its own domestic problems, and it seems to

me we have here a good example of this in oractice for, although'::-^..,,. ^... ::.._ ;:t:,.^: :::: ^ :.^.. ... ..' ,... _. , ....

•not pri•:•arily, engaged on sawke research, he had available the men

and the equiement to turn over to a cash ;.royra:^•se of phenols and

:^-/. ?vG^ jJ^' è ..... . . .... _ ... _ _, . _.. .. .. . .. •. . .

filtration rrhich he has done so successfully. I wouid like to-o: ^•. tsr -^ ^: e- 5.:. .... . . . . • .. . . . . . ._ -.

dwcllron this for a moment because I think it is an exaapie of, -_ rsR: -- --': ..:r; •.: . :_. .. •. :, . >;

the way in which group research should work and ou^ht to work.^:' . . • . . . ... , • •

Louisville's crash pro^,:ar-.e, for example, could never have been,• • _ . ' . ,

^• fmplemented here at Southam.pton. So_tha:naton have 'only got one

... -.•: •^ . ...• ' ---- . _ . ..

Perkin Elmer ordinary gas chromatograph, Louisville, I think, have

got five, maybe more. It would not have been useful either to be

,.

ON=


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Our b.1s1c prograllllllt of lnvestl~atlon into' lmok. production' .':

. and smoke flltratlon I have look~d 1n~o and t find not~ln; wren; a.--.;..- • .- ... · .. i - .. ~~. - ......... i. •• : .-: ......... ~~,: ••• .; ... --. t"·1 j,o •••••••

.. : .. ::.::'··'··-'~,"th it~' it-'~s ~od whe~ ". hid 'It down anc! it. IeIlU sUll . .t":r~ !V;ttZtl • ~:'.)·lr. t:~:. ·."'~S'4:(.' .. =-.;.-.;.:.: .. ,.~ .. .:.:.; ... r..::. ••.•. ·: •• -.".~.~. . . . ' :.,".~": good now. W~ can ce~.1nly u'9'1e a!:lout "nether we should h.ve had ... ··ni .. · .. !~~ ... .; ~o ·':··Vl: .......... "f:· ... _·.·~·:. .• ·:.;. ... ·:;~-:....; · .............. u •• · .... ~ ••.

. .; •. ' .:m;;,r~ st~~n9th o~' it, p.rticul~r.lY~~ •. th.t ".:-t deal.1n~ with selective 1.s.~~~.J:~""::.:~ '0 ':~:11 ~':h:. .r.:.~;;::: .... • - .......... - ............. - .... ~ ••

. .: ... :; fl1 tra tion, and I 1CInd~r 1f. Loul.~vl1lt cay tul tita,t. t~1s work should ... ~ ~tt:c""!~ a ~:,,~; ~·~:=.,i~~:-:J. ".·:.c::~ .. tr.;..eJ 'u;... •. :,. .... ,., ~

. .' '-:.: . ,. be :nuch further fonta=: in South.meton th.n 1 t now '1 s. I th1nle ;.~~;ti'i!.:! "r:1 :t.,t..~: ! &.: .'tl!'~n.:~ ':.6~ .. ::= !4)0'~ •• ~ ' .... :.-.'. - ':' ....... : ... .

." ......... ~: .... we would all Uke that. I:ut I would warn aqalnst .anci~!'-est1::1ating l .... J'!~Q2a' ... o~: !~i ~:: :.::':' ::~ z! .. .: .... ~~:o.~ ••• ~ ... " ....... ;. . •• ' .: ••

,·· .. t .. . ..

.. .. .... 'what has already been achieved. I would also ~lnt out that ~ih ..... -1 ~:~:- '%0 ,G·!h·;!I..~~ ... .:. :\,:crt ;.!.::. ,.;~,:::.- .... :...... ... ~

-: ... :~ '.~. a i~t of effort 1n this area has n~eusa:'lly be~n cHve:-t~d over :-::li • . }·o· !t:"tt:a."w ~,..: ,:\.~.:~:'J. 't-"':'::' ........ ,;~;-...... • ••••• -_ .... ~ ... ...

• '~ .,~ ... :. praet1cally th~ "t\ol~ of this year by ,,,-:::lc .0:"l,Co~::Iound A and on the '. It .. ••• ...... :'.' .... ~fOr. ... ~I _ •• --1!' ,,4IJ. ,... . .... I.r.." .• .., ....... ~ ••• ~cJ ... · - ......

~~: .. ~' ... ·R;y~~ldS' -fi';~~ur ~~t;~t. . ... : .• _ .... _ ... ~ . .,..~.' . .iCl n·,,~.:&:.t:t~. :t~~:.~":~ 'la~: e!::""'~:\;C_ .:. ~r:._ •• !.~.' •• 1,....... .

.•.. ' .-. Louisville tum~d to Southar.:;::t:n fc:, hel;, on the Celanese ::r',z.~:..: ~.,,:' "t ... -;. c ~.:,,-:! a I:'· :. . . .: .':.... . .• •

':.' ' t!'l.ae!tate filte:-s and on ph~nol prcble::lS qene:,ally. and I hope ... -e . , ......... - .;" .. :y~!j~:.r:l' ~r.~ ~1:" ~::. ,'t#.i.~:~" ~;~: :!.~': .,,,:. r

. :". shall hea:' this morning a!:lout som~ of ~ ~ n~l r..! - ~:n:- .. ':"'.2 ;.~.: ... e ":.! .. '~ .: . •.

t~~ :'~$U~ts "hieh ineidentally, ••• "" of:

lik~ Louisville's. have be~n ootain~d by the uie of midnight 011. ~l~ t::!.:Oi '!-., •• ;i ~.:::: = ~ .'::'::.--:':'. .'

Yesterday, Bob Crl!!1th mentlon~d t~e nee~sslty for a la:orato:'y I):'~ 0; =-:.,::·,-"I.t~ :-: ; ... ~: ':'.:...:

to be ~qui?p!d to tac~le its own domestic proble=S. and it I~ems to ;. ·:c· "0: ••... :! "!~.: ,'~r ,.:~: ... ~~ " •• - .' .......

me we ~a~ h~re a good exaQ?le of this in ~:-ac~ice for. although e-t .\~~.;~~.:r •. ~ .. ~ ~:: ... ;'.:'::.~~:" ;-;;';'" .:. :.: ........ , ..

·not prL~arily ~r.gag~d on ~k~ res~a:,eh, he had av~11able the men ;'::::"~~:I""::"';'Z .~.!' : ... ~:- ... :' :~':'::~ ~" .... ~ :'0 • • . ~ ....

.. . and the ~qui~ment to tl.:!,\ ov~r to • c:uh ;:::-o;:-i!:=If of J)nenols and .:"!:.t~ ~VG:t' b!·; ...... !.: .;.~;~ •. ":: :. .. : :.: .• " .. : : .• :..: .:.:. ~.- i •. ~ -'. •. ....... ... ., .

fl1t:'ation which he has done so suee~ssfully. t wJuld lik~ to .~:l:.~." ~ r,:~~"):"'::;;: ~~ : c.-:: ~ ".~.: .. :!..~: .': ... : ~ .............. ~- ..... - ..

d~ll on this for I =o~ent bec.use I think it 1s .~ exa~ple of .. ~:-:: ,..:a~~ :-:: -:",,:": ..... :~: .. :. ' •. ~ ........ :. ' ....... : .;. ... .. •.. ; ...

the way in wh1~~ 91'ou= res~a:-~~ should ,,~!'~ and ou;nt to worle. ,'~. -P.·· . . ... •.• .. ..

J •. , Louisville's crash p:-o;:a::::-.. , fo:, exarll?l~, e01.:1: never hav~ been -...... ., .... --'. '1=,,'lement~d h~r~ at Southa::o.pton. So:.:thi!~ton have 'only 90t one

P~rkin Elmer ordinary qas chromatograph. LoUisville. I think, have . ,.. '. :,.

got five, mayb~ mor~. It would not have been us~ful e1th~r to be , .. '''., ...

~ .... .

... •

,

- ^ - T. _ . •

. :•,.- • . ' ..i • . . . . . • • -, . .

However upsetting to Louisville the present situation may

f..."'^ -• exoerience for them, I believe that the mechanicsof the situation

t

.: •.•.._..... ..,^....,__ ..^..•+;•^ `^

'^' -^"^ "• °`^^ have been ^ and 'I am sure •t• hat it has been a, far tiom pleasant.. ,. • . _ , y

have been proved righ.. Hovr_ver, looking backwards - wh.cA is. . .i . • . • _ . ... .. .^'•much easier to dotnan looking forwards - I think +.e would all

a o ea. n we eenV.p_ gu f e o.•i^-• '. • .-. _- • ... :.. ... ..• f.•:^..• -•• _ ......:• •'... ....

-• ^

tian -filtz b lier f abl I thi k h t••i

coc:placency wiich with a more positive attitude generally we. ' _... -:. •- . • ... • ..._ . .

...• . . • .. . .. • t/, 1 . . . . •

•

far away from the scene. On the other hand, Southampton's

. . . ...^.^+^ i.Y:..1. . ^^ ^ •s:. . .. ^ _^..._ ..:f.. :LL.

- • .•, . S•fY^•r^.•f=..^•S•^ ;-•..^î1 r,.•I.^:^ . ._ .. .

^L:J. •'t

• , ... . ^•. . .^ . ...L^•.,. :.. • ,.; ^.;1.. ^^.• ^ ^:.. • . : .^1Z: . .

=sflned technigue for gas chromatographycan play a useful part. •• ^'â^'9^5 ^ ^'rli.^.:a' w•.. ..•

:• •.'' 7t1^^S•'4^L:G'';.• EZ•!:.S:.;i.t^'^R .L^^:: 1::^:^. ... _

^''^''•• ;- . in establishing more accurat 'ely the true levels of Phenols in^ • âd'Sj:Si.): .. L`+;:

^..,.-: .. r.. . .- _ .^.9 :.-."n -.z•. ii•-° ^ . ....:•e sr o e aai^êtt 3i Tdh 1 f 1• i Th â-• a f•d •i - t i l

,-^ , _^•' and correspondir.gly exoensive to the group as a whole..

"^-c..._^., :_ .-_..; ^.^ •:.;r• a: - c'.o;;.: •: ,:.a=ta;^:: • -^_

y : ^ ^^^ hsE

. -Q. ' ^1^ •«J.';'c... â'.-f:. ns:C .a,•:-5 2:... `..-t..:.

"jL^ '.... work on smoke. Location of this work in Louisville, or even its

'location in Southampton where it is an hand for all th ssociated'

y'a r ' t... ^-^^.^ ...^... :r.,, ' «:^ •Y:^' :;:<.. i^L î:•::' _r ..

e

^. - .: . :_ ': ---:. .^5.-.i^.;f^•r;: 7 :3..? . .-..'prcgramme because it goes an far longer, is I think in its right

a, n p enag •.a on. s s ,. o, c.n amen.a

- _-.+' ;.: ^._... r._.. .. :.:..i... ►:.^T ::..^'t.:^•, ^ t1L .r^:.':'!'^'I..

.

wcrk, which in the end is far more expensive than a erash

_ 1 ►

' .' _..^ ` :..: ,.: -^_ ...nr -^,• .-... .s.• .^ ..^ •^. .^ ::= . • .•t• • • - -^`" duplicatSon in Louisville,would, I think, be wasteful of effort

;,^•- _,_ ...:..- ^-. ._. ...effort

_._ .. _. . • ;sav that we w._ish aore cou13 have been devoted to the

should probably not have been. Discussing this in Southampton

• :`' What positive action can we take for the futu=e? We

agreed at the meeting on Policy that aaore positive action ought

^.Y^ ^.:Î._. . .^^ .^•..^.. _.] .c -t^-:... ..:.J ^^^...•::^•^

chromatography side, to speed up this particular aspect

work. But you see, discussing this in Aoril or May was

" too late, we ought to have been discussing it two years. ^.

• ' " they were engaged but there certainly was a case for at least one,a• ^ •_^" . . ,: • ..., .__...:- ^:-... •: i:-.y •^ :..:• .^:

and possiblly•two or three Organic Chersists, umstTy on the

^ ;o^:, . ^: . __+r . --:n _ •''. 'c -quite wrona to Eivert effort from the lines ofresearch on which

.. •^.•^C?!^' : ..._ . ...._ ..- ... a : - :.t•^ '!^ : ^: i.:r"7... :'. ..•: ^..t.:

in April and may we cameto theeonclusion thatit would have been


.: .. ~:--

.. ~ :57' :.,S; ... . ~ .. ;~~. , .. ~ . . :.":;': .. ~- .. :'"~ . . ..,;. ",:,';

.......

... :,:-.1 "."; .

. -:

"~

--

.. "'-.

:

,

. ~ .

, .. _ ....... , ... \ ... "'". , •• 0 ~:~ p. •• ~; ........... -:.:. •• _ ..... ".' ••••••• .:.:.

• "\ ... much usie:: to do tniln 100k1ng forwards - I think .... wo\lld ilU , '_ .......... ..: .............. _ .. ' ._ •• _ .... ":' .. -'" ":"!'~ .,' .. ":"I.:~··1 .

" ~;:..!~. ~-'-; •.• : .... _ ,- - say that we wish :non eHo::,: could have been cievot~ to the ~:- ... .. .•.. 'l....... . .... ' ... -. ..' .. -, .... ,-" ," ~ ~.: ~. ~ ~ .J... .. .. - ......

. ,. ,,~ •..•. f1ltration p:oole::s. I think we have been Ql:Hty here of •

• ~~.io '~pi;~~c; ~~ch '~lt~\ ~~r~";o;~~~v~ .ttlt~; generally we .. .. ~"" ... ~ ~:'';~h~uld ;~~~!lly··~~~' h~~e .~;~.:-;. 01~:~~sing '~h15 '1~ Southam~ton e~::. ~!6r:~.~· . . . ..... ~ •. ~ : .• "t ••• \'~ ~-.:: -:.- ;.-.,.,..':;:":0:': ~.'~ : .. \.:

in April ar~ May we came to the conclusion that it would have been ",i . .,~·r! 50' •• , ':' \, .•• '!.~ '!!:- .. ~ •• : ,..~ ",,:-:-:.: =!.: .. ~ ~.' ..•. ;-... ·-:.::z.z:J··;

quIte wrong to divert ef:o:t !~ the lines of resea:~~ on which :~ --.;On .. ,. ..... _r ~;.' ~ ":. .......... " ''::'-'': ~'~~-:n , :':' • .:;~:- ::-.. ~ •. : ... :..:

. ,:.:,~:' they were engaged but there c:e~.inly was a cue i,or at lust one, ' • ..,: ' ••••• , ............ :0 ... ,:.-:,... ... ':' ..... ·::: .. ,"f.~!· .. r .. ~·:Il· .

• :-:~!'.., .: and' po·ss1!::Uy. tv.ci or three Q:oganic: Che::li'ts. mostly on the r .. ,\.~ ... _ .... _ .. -:"" .,..- • ~ •. _..... -:; .~--!-:-: :-:"",: ." .. t.': .... .,Ic:~.!: .• ;;: ..... , ~ ~!' •. ~' .•. ch::o::lato;;::aphy Side, to speed up this pa.rti:ula:: asp.eto! the

.. ..~.~ .. :.-~. -,;

_.,. wc:k. aut you see, CHS~~~~9 t~1s 1n A;:rll .. ~~::Maywas in fact

':;:~too late, we ought to have' been ci1sc~ss!.ng it two Yeil:s befo:e. • f ,_, ...

What positive action can we take for the future? We ,:.- ~;.:: ":"';:. ! ''';.

c:::::::

ilgreed at the meeting on Poliey thilt a ::\ore positive action ought

' ..

:ss^l^:^•c'::_ ;:.. . '-.vola=ile acids .. , t:_..

r;r:From the point of view of tisnou:-pronaiinq activity there are:

_^.aisc . t. or.J _.a The aldehydes.... :at-:, E r! _„ ^

all out e°.fort - befo.e it wi,ht begin to cazarda guess as

'to the true relationships involved and whether it is really

worthwhile to undertake a more detailed study ofany one or

"71m-o:e of the s.:.oke fractions that are strcngly iaôlicated.

The oresent e:cphasis is an snake phenols just as a

z^â a_c!: sas•a: 3s ì_-:ihe neutral fraction 0•,. :e.^: .•^ os

^•:the,terpenoids•... ;• _ .... , i^

"âve 4nicotine itself _

'!o nicotine-free oasic fraction .,...

. . :;,

there

of course, our old friend ben:pyrene itself. I think

*''=Lj1616= •"i.1ia: is'real?y for you^to decide,' and xhat* I hope'we nay cet a

Y bit of lir.ht on this moraing,' is what'is'the next to cone and,

'^=^ =ceven r..ore inportant;'wha; is the effort re.uiredon it.

'-=_` •=^ r0 '=° Now de Souza's surveywas ir ansher to the letter I

had svritten and I would like to read to*yc_ frc-ihis co.^-ents

on pac,e E: • -

`'- -,3 '"'?he evfdence continues to be can?using and conflicting

`_ -I3-

_ ...to be taken from now on. First of all, wìat is next on the list?

brown polymoric substances•':Za."

You-will,,find all-of these irdicatea in the literature and

Lo*such an' exter.t that any laboratory desirous of making its

contribcticn to .he s-oke and health orotlen has'effectively

ta` start frc- thi besin^.inc with smoke fracticnation and-•. _

biological testing of•the various fracticns - ineffect, an

few years ago it was on polynuclear aro-atics and it might very

Nell. be on some other saoke fraction tor•.orrow.


, . ,

~ . ' . ~

co. . " ~ " . <J';"-.,:-

'- .-:-~r: .. - ," •• . ' ~ ........ ,~ ., .. ,

~;.~ .. ' i= -.:,..~. . '~ .. ~;..

~t·: ::~ ... " ~. , .. ~~!-~

c· '. ... '"'" ~:" ,', ;..

ii~ ~o., .... ':.: ... ,' ~,

. .... " ~' .;; o! ..

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tt .... -

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i

ft 'r' 0'

t

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.1

. '-:.

____ ~l ., __ ,_ --_ .. "--~-, -_._--:' "":

:' " .. ~ . "'""; "', 13 .' ,

.. ' - ."" -to be t~lcen :rcm now on. First of all. ,,~at 1s next on the Hst? ~,: .. :

, ,

': :,!'S:llb ':: .,t,.~=:; tH'':; :~~ :::.~:. The ~ldehydes , .. ::~:::":J' .,~',I~:.:"\~r;(I,!,::-~:~·

'" " ' ' ":' ~,::~i~.::~.~,'~:;\ ;~:: ~~.~'~ ~',~ ~;~'~o'ia~11' ,ac:id~" ': ,; ,i: ~ ~ :~:.: ;':: ~ ~.~:' ,,.. .... " .

\0 o~:~~.~ e.~:!:-:·:,,:i ~:, . .:.:~the nic::tine-iree basic frae.~!on :t';.~:-:. ', .

.0.' .. ' . ~

J~s~! :l ,.~ . .:::~. neutral f=ae:!cn and ' ~::;" ,', ,', ,,: , ,,'-, '.. '. ,,',

bro\O.fl, j)Olymeric: sul:lstal'\~es" :~,~:: ,f::: . ~ ...... . - .... ' . . ,. :' :.~ .. ':

.. !

':'fen "I'~ ~;~= Yo~·~111· fin~ alt'-of these '1r.:"ie3te~ in !he l!teratu~~ 3l'\d there

:~,:~~~~,:,~:':1S"~~SO~ o! co~~~~"oui ~ld !:-iend ben:?yren~·it$el!. '!o;::IO:i~~':>:'~'~~~-l~'reallY:'~~~ you'to dedde,' a~.:! ''IIha:'I hope',,~

t' •• ' • .. •••

I think

!::-:~::!1-"1::'~'Y~b1t'Q:'li~l':t'on'this;mornlnq,'1s .;..nat'b'the'next to c:or:le an::!,

:~~·~:~even more'im~o=tant,'wha~ is ~he e!!ort r,~u~red on'lt.

-,,.._.... : .. ".'" - on Pol;' ~:'

:r": ::',- ~ :: iiI- out"e!io::t '~-'bef-o:e it. =i~ht =e;in to i':a:a:-d 'a 'guess as

I;~::::" :to the't:-ue relationships l:wolve~ and whethe:- 1t is really

',': ~r!h\'/hile to 'un:::ertalce ~ mo:-e detailed st~y of any one o~

,:: '~o=e of the s::.oke :rac!~ons t!'lat are strongly 1m~licated. -.;' ~-

The ~:,esent emphasis 1s on smolee phenois just as a ..

"~'few years ago 1t was on polynuc:lea:- a:,o~atics and 1t might very

~~ll' be on S~~e othe~ sc=ke f~ac:t~on tor.~~ow.

--:..- ---- ... . ....... ..

.. ; ., ..... '. ."j" '.~ ~ ... ..... "" ....

, I: • . ' ,',

", -.j'

'.: . , , : ' .

.. ;,';'

: -: ....

,

. i

~I I

_r••-

=y:^`z::Y"'+

.•^:^ -

^ o.

. i' I -•'. .'.1-

....• ♦ '^. ..• ,

14. t'-v ±^.^} -. r. a .^.. ..... ♦•• • ? . .-_ ..

. . ^ • . . ' , . . :. ^ ^ ^

-'^ "-"-''•= C==''1=^'• As indicated above, a very comarehcnsive °study is

- _•• .: presently be?nq v.lderta:en in Englard and in t!%e U.S.A. to detail, . • . .

the effects of the smoke phenolic fraction and its individual

phenol constituents as well as et4er smoke fractiotSs eaoable of

tt,•ou: promotir.g activity.''To atter:pt a ccsaplete or even

cartial duplication would seem foolish at this time, especially

from En3land.",_!:..._

n•

He wrote+ of course + with less in:o:-aatien than we now

_have about the subject. I-quote again from the to, of Page 8:

"At the present_time even with the limited informatian availaae,

'.,,;r .,•_ •, would ar-cear quite feasible to conaare =loloyically non-filtered

,;.and filtered smoke condensate" and from the last paragraph:

, .; "If the differences in biological activity Mrove not si.;aificant,

.._ ,•_: or only slightly reduced, Fhenols bececr.e exor.erated. If the

differences prove highly signi.°icart, it would be'certaia then

-?.-c that phenols, or at least those constituents of cigarette smoke

-:,;being removed by filters over and above those by the gross

__-mechanical filtration, are the major ;r=oters in cigarette

;.. smoke condensate. Filters then become established as a readily -

.._,available method for the reducticn of the biological activity."*..._ • _ . .

You•see, there is quite a lot of eea;hasis here on the fact that

=r••- it isn't just necessary to re=ove the cx:ponents; it would

also appear necessary to ensure that when you have done this you

have achieved some significant biologicai change - that brings.. ... . ^

.^,us back to Harrogate. If our positive action is to mean

anything more than just warning our respective Companies that

certain attacks are likely to happen (an3 that is not the sort


"

'. jI'"' -:

I'f.. -.-..

• t •.

... ..-: ....... -' ......

.' .... ,', \ .. ' . -:', .'.~ .~.:.:!:

.. ... '04. ..... "._ ....... -... ..

--. - - --~ .. .. ~ ....

- 14 -~. :t"i-:~~

• • ,_' . l ~-&: ~-:i~~ ~~ :"'4:-:' ~ As indicated above, • w::y cCIID~rehcns1ve :study 1s

':&\"::~~~;":/~'~' ... ~:~~~:,~:'~~" ;resent.1Y being u~ertaken 1n ~nc;lar.d anci in the U.S.A. to detaU

. '.... .' .. ";:' ~< " .';' :. ": th~ efhcts of the smoke phenonc fraction arod its indiviciual ..... • .Ii ,:".,,,, .... - .

~~enol c~nst~tuentl al Well .s ot~er .~~ke !rsct1o~S c.~abl. of '. - . . •.. ~ ,

. t .... -:"'.Ou: pro:notir.g activity.' 'To atte:::;:lt a cCr.:;:llete or even .... : ..

: ... . ~.:~< ~:'t1al dU;:ltication ...cu1d seeo foolish at this time. especially

.. -'. '. ·· .. as fu:':.her results' should be com. available at least this sl.."'mIer • OJ'··

, . f- c: 1 d" . .' . . .::. .' .. :m _ng an •.. ! ~:~:.:: ~!-::.....-:"'~ !.::;: t'"!" ........ .!

, I .. ' c.r: i

r ::" .~' .,.:.:. '.~':"I'''!' -' ' nave about the subject. I quote a;ain !:'fr.! the to~ of Par;e 8:

.: -. ''',.'' :·.~:~;-:,~-'~~t '~he pre:~~·~~time'.e~~~~~~h th~ 11r:11ted ;~~o::n~tion avaHa:le •

.' ... • !

(. • ~

~ 1

.' ........ • '.. t

,:,,-"; '1~.;·::·~~ . ...culd ar-;:e:;.quite feasible t? COt:1!,are :io10:;ically non-Hlte:'ed

.' .:: and Hltered smoke cor.densil te" and ~rom the las t paragra!)h:

-:.~_~,~~,:If the diffe:'enc:es.in Diologic:al act1vi~y ;::,ove not s1;n1!!.cant,

. '::.,~'::.~: 0;' only slightly reduced. Flu'nols !:lecclT'.e exonerated. If the

d~ffe:,ences p:,ove highly signi:1c:a~t. 1t would be'ce=tai~ then

.: .:::.! :'b::: . that phenols, or at least those constituents o~ c:igarette smoke

:: :-::.;be1ng rer::oved ?y fllteM over :and above those by the gross

.:':~.:~~;: _lIlec:hanical H1 tra tion, are ~,l:Ie =ajor ;:ro:::=:ers in. Cigarette

.. ::-.s.~oke condensate •• Fll~ers .. then become es~ai:lishe? as a readlly

:;: .": ~ ~yailacle lIIethod for. ,t!,e re~uc:ticn of the ~iologi;cal activity."

z.:~.;:ou.s1te. there .is quite. a l?t,!,f e:!!phasis here on the fact that

it isn't just necessary to re:::ove the c::x::!'Onents;- 1t "''CIutd '" . ." . also ~~pear necessary to ensure that when you have dene this you

.. ;"_: .. have ac.'\ieved some s1gnif.!cant I::l010g1c:a1 change - that br1ngs ')

;:-:.~s back to Harrogate. If our posit1ve action is. to mean

". ~ .. ; !::' ~nythin9 l:Iore than just warning our :'espect1ve Compan1es that . .

ce:tain attacks are 11kely to ha??en (and that i~ not the sort

r r

~'

,

........ ==

-^s- .of action vwhich S:ves me much satisfaction), then I think we

or.: : . r::.:• .- .. . .,^- :,, : _ •• ,; :_..are bou:.a to out o s results to the test of biological experiments,.. .

^.

'.

^F e.=.. ^. ..'.2!_. a .'^'!'^f!^•. ^ T ..^2^/*.^ ^^ .i.S'. .^.^- v^: :!•. ^

either mouse-skiz-vr.se or cilia-wise or both, or something else.•.::s .Z:êo . :ti:oa.- •-::r.o ^;. . .: - a•,r:_..., i:_: °:. .

We are coanittee not to carry out any hiological testing ourselves• .;-_n_. . ^^:-.. ^ ... - ... ..-i-•:a- . . . - • , •

-,^ and as have said this is a val::a=:e safeguard against vnilateralt% s3 : •=^:^ g'- •6. .. . •-- - -••-

action. Already the amount of 5io2ogical work reported in the:.'.r :i c53:utns eacr :•^ . ^^.. .:e.t7 :a -.. .._ -. .-

literature Is .'o- idaole and it is increasing at a great rate,. '.i2 r.elac3•t.::^ a-►b-.. -:o^_- ^ .. .,r• _r -. : _ ^

Even if we do no Siologica^l work, 1 begin to wonder if we snouldtJ:?t21:3^ :: e-r.9t'a: '. ';t^:.:: .. a^:. ._. c• .:.... ^_. .

have a Medical Scien:ist someMrnere in our midst to keep abreast7k ^- 9^7i2 i:C ^.CC i 9 ^: .. ... >...: .'_: l•f ^ ^_: ._. _. -

of events and to give us a better chance to decide at is use°ul

and neaniaq:ul, so tt:at our assessr..er.t oftne future may be onfa!^ ^4 •'^^dLâi n^. V c^:... _ . .1att: ^n _ ^L^.^_.. ^B 1.... "+• ....-

sL:c_ ground. Tc_re is so nuch g-ound to tover and so littles? ^:h: ezo.'.' ...... ..-r.. ^ ..-. __... . ... .. . ..,..

time to do it in, that timing is all ir..portant. Not only haveS .':=-n ,r. - _ _ - -_ .. . ^. . .- •,.• . . _ -

we to nake the guess as to Mtesher It is aldehydes, bases,- :::^-. ^c-.- ''r..- : .- .. .. . .^.. ...

and so on, but we have also ;ot to decide on the amount of e.°forr.-:^.^.17 ... _... ...:â:^_ - ....... '. .. .... . . . . . ... . .

to ach:eve *-jr o:;et_Sve before the next attack, so as not to bei:::'::u_ :. ^ ?: •^•--... . .. . . . . . .. . _

two years too late, •rnich is wnat we have been this ti..+e..^:_ ... ... .: . . :^. . - . .

- _ :. - _... '^^ ^:. .. _^ _.. - . . -... . • .

C.C.E. NSII you take up the :ale, Tom?

:t... s•v,3::_ cz : _- . -- .... :^^ . .. - .. -.T. M. 7lade • • This is a tynical exa-='-e of too little, too late.

: _ .. :^^z. ' .^: . ... ..._ _ -. • . .This situation of ours is sossewzat different from yours over

• here, as itis now proven that ce_tain elements of the industry

%4 11 go i• alone, rather than t.`-=ough T.I.a.C., in spite of the

fact that they are members of the T.I.3.C. ' That leaves us in

a very awkward s'tuation in the States. Of course, we don't

c

4L;


- ...• ~ . ...... :: .. ~-

~t ~ -.: • ... - . .. ,

-~:. ::-...... ,~-:; ... .......... .... ~. ).- . " "'-......... .:':.. -.. "....... -..... : ... '~ ...

~ .. -.:

., _. ... -.. ......... '.' "."

"""'I:.

..... '.:1 . :-....

.;..-

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.-:;.

i t·

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•

,~. . .. .=."

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-.---_ ...•. -.~ .. .. . ~

of Icticm v.h1ch c;:.ves me mUch sa~isfac~i:m), then I think we ,~.~.:lr.::-_.!! ori.;. ":', l!."!.": .... ,· .:·· .. .:J<t: .. lj:· '!t:' !.: ......... ~' ....... .

Ire bou~~ to put o~ rasults to th, t.s~ of ::'ological .x~.ri~ent$, -:.:...:: l,_,.. v, ... ·", ... , .... - " , ... ~_ ..... ·-~.-···I .. '~~ ........ !. t • .

w-.ith~r ~u~~~ski:'\~·f..~~·wo; ~i"ia~wi'se"o; both: or sametl'ling else. . .".:;~~ :: ~~! . .:- .-::t=" ;'-:.~ ":';": jI!-:'!:=,"!, •• ~ i:.:~:·~!'" ,'., .W. are co=i~te= not to ca:-:-y out any :1010gi:al test1ng ours.elv.s

.'-;!l~~\(--:~' :::-.-:-:!':, . ...,: :..::: ."!' .• ::~! •• !,,~~.:. ~'S".:- ... < .. ,. .... and as : have sai~ t~is 1s I val~a=l. slEeguard Igainst unilateral

. ~S~! .!-c..:~ ~-: .. -,,,,,. '.;.:: ~ ... ".;:." .... :::.:~ ~.~: .:,:.~:..,;";:.~ :~ '. . .ac:tion. Al::~ady ':.!'Ie amount of b1010;ica.l work repo:'t.d in the

~a Ql'!' .... u~!1.: t".:u:.~ '~~".1 ;t:-": , .... - .. ... '£."::1 !.') ~;" ;:: .: ,- .: ... . literature 1s fo~idable Ind it is lnereasing at a ;reat ::ate •

r..:.!.:.l.1::,~~~ -! ... i:J.:~. ~!;-:~=':'~ .. o.~: ::'a-r:· :;-:,.-~,: .... ,-: ~.:: .. -. ;.~: .... '. ..... '. :ven if \ove do roo biological "N:lrk, I be:;in to wonder if we sno~ld

. :=::I;:~~=!\ e~ !~r;~,:~:s,,: ~: .. t""':~ ~:. ;": .. ~ .. ;= r ... !·.· ...... :-:.: ':-. : ...... ~ have a Medical Scien':.ist some~ne::e in ou:: midst to k.e~ ae::'ast

-o~l'~ rl~!:~C'·;. 1J!'!: :~::o-.::. , . .:::- :-::- ."., ;-:.:: ~~::...: .". :".~ . :;.,: . '., 0: events and to ;ive us a bette: c!l.an~! to decicie what 11 useful

.• c:;.-' .r:; . .::a.:l!q:".l t.1. ; ...... p'":.:':'; :~:.~ ~ __ ~/'!":~· .. !'~ ~=~'''_ .':'.',:",!.(

and ~eanin1~ul, so ~.~t au:: assess=e~t of tn. future may be on .1'z.,:·ra :'~~;,,£~" t3:::. \::- C"::~:: ;.~.~~ ::-:.'" :,::!-:.~~.~.':? 1..::'::':' •. -:.:::-

s\.'!'ar g:al.!n:!. !r.~::e is so t:!U:!'I ;raur.::! to C:over and so little t~ ~!l" ~:ro:~7 •• 1':';:- '--":.: '! ...... ': .. .:.:.:~ ... ~"~ ':,', :.: :""':::'!:::~:: ..

time to dQ it i~, ~!'Iat ~ioinQ is all i~portant. 1 •. -'!:!.-:'II t~,-;:;:",:~:::::.;.f .:.! :::.. .... ::- :. )::. ... - a~,': ~ ,. ... ~: .. -.'

Not only ha ... ~

we to mak~ t~~ :~;~: guess as to .~e:!l.e:: tt is aldehydes, bases, -:~:!: .J.~."" ..,;,.-::: ~ •. ~:.::: = ' .. , " . ; ~. ~ .. -";" . . :: "': ..

anci so on, out we have also ;ot t~ decide en the acount 0: e:fo~ .;.!!e.;:'1 .~; ::::: ·,i·.::':':"":":"." - ., .. :..: ..... -: : .... ~..; .... '. .t:. .... .-:

C.:).E. .- . . '. . -- .-.....

to aC:hieve o~: Q:;e~':.!.ve oefare the next attac:lc, so as nat to be ~;~t:,!,,!~ .... ~-:::: .:........ .. .... ,. .. :~.;~.

two yea::s :00 lat~. Y~ich is .nat we have been this ~~e • . J!.' ." .. '. .. ..~ :J; ...... ':"

...... :--; .!: : . :-/U1 YC'.J talce u~ t~e :a1e, rco?

:.: :,T :.: ''''",,:-::.:::.j - ::.:.: ~ ... :-:- '" .. _ .a • ..... • • J ... ." •

_ .. ~ I

T. M. '(lade This i.s a t'f1:'lical e;c;1::.:!.e 0: too li~':.le, too late. :' '. \- •. ':: ::.: -:-ti-'::' : • ..,: ....... : ....... , '.:.: ~ "! -: ~ '" .... ....

This situation of ours is so~e~nat di:fe~nt frOQ you:,s over ':_:::~:::::: !':l:'l':';' .'. .- :. ':.- .. ! .....

here, as ~t is ~ow ~::oven that ce::tain ele~ents of the industry ~'J : .. .J:: .;;: ;.,!' :.... ~ ~ '. '. '. f ' ~ ". :.... • : •...

will go i~ al.al'\e, rat!'!e:- than t~:::I\:c;~!.I.,R.C., in sj)lte of the

fact ~~at they a::! ~embers of the r.I.R.C.,· That leaves us in

I very awicW3rd s~tuation in :.~e States. Of course, we don't,

•

,

.L.•4. • • . .... ^ . . . ^^ .___ . . .. ^

y , • _ . . • . It

.-- c►: x :d' I r. `• , . .. - . . ..: ' .f. R . ^ r. . ,

' know the lavei of activity of phenols or the importance of them,

but the Reader's Digest can make a powerfully good case of this;' .^.•r.:^?'_^s: .. ... -- :s ' ...-

in all practical purposes they are anti-tobacco to begin with -

.: - ... ,-^.^• S:C:. - .. . .. _ . _. .. . _ • ..... • _

. - • -- .. 4 .... .. .": .. -.' • ': thanks to their association with our boyfriend (Wynder).

;:.' ••. Secondly, it increases the circulation by having good scare

e.. . -- ="'' i _... .. . __. _ .. _... . . . ..heads, and, on top of that, they are very much insulted at the

.^:.: : ::i; -s.:^. ^ .. . - _ ... . . . . •.c. -= - ,- - .iJnited States Government and the Federal Trades Cor-.ission in

t. ^.. _r.. _ i2 is »^^: • • . . : s: . ._ .. r .. . . .particular for having stopped all kinds of reference to filtraticn

_. .:•.-S ^^::*1 ^? -.. .^ .... .. . _ '.^•:...G .-... ^.l- • . .. : .

"^^ in terms of total tar; we can talk about the foolish side if we

want to, taste and flavour and so dn, but the itnplications from

the medical standpoint are being carried'by the Reader's Digesto: b_.

in onoosition to the Federal Trades Car.mission. There will be

•' another meeting of the medical group in Ptash.ngtod, which, Ii2y^..: ,^5L+vit-.:.>i_ .. . .. ...:v.^ .. .: •rt. _- • ^ ^ - . • ^ .. .. . ... . .

'understar:, is not cor.•ioletely appointed. I don't know whether

the neeting will be in public or private - probably not in oublic.

I believe on the.other hand that if certain of our polit^cal

fi;ures get into the act it will be in public.

91e have gone through to the battle of the total tar

and we are now in the battle of the pher.ols - to»orrow it will

be scmething else. Of coexse i4yr•.''•e: does not believe that a. . . . __ , ;'-- . . . . . .....-

-

cigarette will ever be cqrr?letely safe. 41yn3er has proved•. . ^ . . . ,^ , -... ._.^o r.... . ..: . . .. e .. ':_: :: • .. :.. . .. . .,.... 'there is an activity to mouse-skin with certain s.a"terfals

• •---.. _ ._ _. _-. •• ...... . . : -o.., • . • _. •

including wholesmoke and that is a very easy thing to pick up... .. s:_c. :. ..'. .... .. . - - . • .. _. .

and he can go on from there. Whether the ciliary activity is

• __ - , e!•. .. : ' . . . .

an i.-portant thing or not should be of some i--portance - the

second factor is what does cleanse the lungs - is it the

so-called scavenger cells or is it the ciliary activity? This

work is going on, or is planned to go on with the phenolss

1

:l^::s':r..i. _^'sa.._=.... . . .... ,._. ^. _. _... ... • ... : -^


.~ ..... --'-.

·g.ii~.· ;'

<:i1.l~~j·-:\;j::::~ .. " ~-f!.

. ' .

- 16 -. ~-~

~ ..... ; ,~ ..

,' .. ' I • . / -:::

j ,=,-

-

..... : :,\ . .,: ..... :"'~, .;:~: . . ..... .. :~ .-~; ;t·:~.17.r t!~.';! • '.-::.- .. ;~.::.~:-= ... ' . .j:'·.r.~ '':~. :··.·1:.. "': ..... !'t .~. ~

. :':" • . . '.:. " .. ,.:. know the Itlvel of a,=Uvlty of phenols or the ll11portan,=. of them, . ..... : .~~:..-:-::::':" ... ~~ !.·:~':;:c:,;"", ,. : ",;': \'. _: .... ~. :;.···io: ..... . :.. "':, _

: .' .. ' ";.'-', but. the Reader's Digest an lUke a powerfully good case of this; .... :.... . :::.: ~\ ~':':'~~~:"-':'; .. ~ .. ~ .. ~: .. ;,~ ...... .;.:"-::" ... :.:-~ ... ' .. " ... '" .'.: :: ..

...... • • 40 ••

':'::~:''''''': : .... :.: .;.;. 1n all pra,=Uca1 pu~oses they are ant1-tobacco to beg1n with ":..:~C:&'E'~·>~;~;': . ..r ~:'11'::7'.!' .... :.;..;; . .:.::"'- '~,'\.i' ~.\.,.:.: :'':':.:.: :':'-:-., :,.~.,;,~,,,: ..... ',' z

.:-:: .•.. : ~:" •. :-.... _.; ...... ,':. thanks to ~h.1r association w1th our boyfriend (Wynde:). ·.-·: ..... 1::-:.:.~.s.~.;,. .... ,. :-.;; .. 't!~~ •. ::":.,: .. :; .. ~.,,~ ... ~ ~::.;'I> ... :.s.~! , .. ~4. :'I:. ..... ~ '...: .. : .. ::::.- ," ;.'"':~ :

.:' '. ...... .. . Sec:lndl y, it increases the ci:::ulat10n by having gbod scare ~. \ f;.;.;. ... ::':-;~;~i ";~ ..... ,.;~:" .. ':..:,..: ;~' _ .... :~ .... ; .' ......... \ -':"" I . ' ...... :.~ •.. ', . heads, ~n::l t on top o~ that, they are very muc."'l 1ns:1Jl ted at ~he

~.. \. ..' -.'. ~!':~: :~~'-l~;'-~;' :~~~:~d''st~a~~~ ~~~::r::n:!nt ~a:~: ';;e ~ede;~~'~r:~d~'s Coi::::l1ssion 1n [ ""4:''':~: ~',': 1.~~ .. "'h: •.. '"... .~':':.4.: :.::.":, .... ',! .. ~." .'~ .... :~i'~.~

.- l-" ";' .:-. -:~ ~~~~S··~~~i~~~~ ~~:::~~:/~:·~~;:,:~/\:~:/~:l:i::.~:f t::f:::~::h t:i::l::a~cn : ................... ' .. -.' .......... ·s:,'" .. ~. .' .. . 4

,-

,

._. _ ... lot.:, _ •. J, .. ~ .;.. ~:ilo' .. ;..". -.. ..,;::"",; .; ';;" .. :4':~ "~ .' .. . . want to, taste and flavour and so dn. but the implicat!.ons f=ol:l

n:· ¥.. ~!.~ t,"t.·~L:: '!:-.... :~ ;.~~ . .:.~?'~~.:; ::;~ :"' •. ~~ f".... .' 4···.· - ~ i

the medical standpoint are being ca::led by the Re~der's 01gest .'!,(;.;r: (.: b'::i ":~,,.::,:!. ~:" c:".:.::':t' :~':te ":l '~: ~~!'.; ~ ••. ::-:'".~

1n o~~o$ition to the Fed~=al Trades C~~ission. There will be .~ 1:-:: :-c~:· .':-;:: .. :r.:': ~ .C;r. .i~ ~."l:-"~: _', ,4 ...... ~ ••

another meeting of th~ medical g~ou~ 1n Wash~n;ton, whi::h, I ,~~~It.z.b~~: .. :· "::':!.:~'''' .. '' <fr. ;":,',,'" :-.• ··4

!,":,."

;'. - \:nde:-stal'.::!, is not c=pletely appointed. I don'tlcnow whether :-:;4o;~ .... c ~ ... :.~::..: .....

•• 4 .: :.~ .... .. ••

. . .

t~e r.leetine; will be in public o~ i)r1vate - probabl"y not 1n oubUc. :~ •.•.. ~ ..... ' .••. '~''';'. 1"\'.": . '~~.'. '.

I believe on the othe:- hand that if ,=erta1.n 'of 'our' pOl1t!cal :-! -: j .. ...... .: ;: ..

fi;~r~s get· in~o the act 1t will be 1n publ!::.

We have gone through to the battle of th~ total tar .'

an:i we are now in the ba;:le of the pher.ots - to::::),=row tt will

be semething else. Of course Wy~=er does not believe that a .. :'~ ... ";: ,",,;_.'.. . .... :'.' :::..:,~- .... . c!;arette will ever be corr.;:Jletely safe. flyl'.:ier has proved

:,.: ........ :.. ;.:Jc.,- r.:~.~ "'. ~t .: •• 4: ~., :;': ..• ! .. ~. ._....... .. ' .. '

. . there is an activity to mo\lse-skin with certain lI'.3ter1:al5 : .4:::'::'"':: .:.~~ ~.:. ...

1ncl1.:dinq whole sCloke and that. 1s a very easy thing to pielt up ~l .. , . " .-.....

anc b~ can go on from there. Whether the cil1a:ya::tivity 15 .... ;,; ','.. : -~ 4·~.' " ~ ••

an !.:::~o:tant thi~g or not sl':ould be of sa.::e i::.?Ortance - the .,f ••• __ .

lecond factor 1s what does cleanse the lungs - i~ it the

so-called scavenger cells or 1s 1t the cil1ary activity? This

~~rk is golng on, 0= is planned to go on with the phenols,

... -.

,

~I

'. ^^•_

--17

•r.' . e:_..:s r., r.:_ s3^ ... .'^s:f- • _F^T .:! .. -'.'

evrr s-: •:sFio :?Y. •addinq labelled aaterials and seeing, how they are removed

and w.'%y. .._9ut, as far as I knew at this Laoc•.ent, we haven't

started on this Project. However, I don't know what this is

going to show, but i think that the ave:a;e cerson accepts that •. . ^ .. t.. .._

smoking is not good for him. But on the otteT hand, you ca^.::ot

. . .is^sfar ssss::: ;:!êeo oeoole in astate of suspense fo:ever. ihey begin to .-.n.

_ . ... ` .

have loss wor:ies aoou: smokir.^ than they once had - that reinq

.1ae:, _ S.":

. purely osycnoloqical and no: r..edical at all. The next attack

Y.'• a: .v . c^ -will be froa the Read2-'sDiqes:, bu:'wa have no info--matior. -_or, ... , ._. ,_..._..

,had none N1en I le.°t on w::.:t they plan to do. There will be,^..t'^r. `f:J^.j S' . .. . . ... ^K_.. .._ _ . - •^ . • • • ^ ' .

:n. n-^ yaiÎ•a? sure, phenol but_:vhethe: t+are will be sa-ething else along

.v

I do not know. .Any.ray, taere is :c:'.endous exci:e:na^t..as:.. - ^:.... . ^ ._ ... .. -'--

y;3 .•within the Fndus:ry - w.':ether the excitezent is to the eonsi^..cr.

.don't ^cno:., but it can easily be when 3ea-er's Di;cst oubl a h

:z^L:-:L:-:• I.. .. . ..

,J,; jVC.•y !:,..this article. Ther^ c_rta°rly .3s co.^.sL:.er excitemer.t over tne

•._y^. •^ first one, tYouqh.Nhen the Reace:'s !)igest be;an repea:ia; _-c story

_.they ran ir.:o the sace situat:â... r, ..1

Anyxar, it's the usual situationr.. : -.

i.: or. rdone yesterday.... . ;. .. _-. ... _. . ' .

this shoul:! have been

G. =elton Will the F.T.C. oa tar acd nicotir.e adver_is*.ng. . . . ... . ^ Y.. . I . . . . . . . ' . . . . .

exter.d to phenol?

,• _. •. •.. . . .. .. .... ....•..^ _ . , . .: . . -.

The general is, yes, at this stage. -hey_. :::. ..-.. ..

are planninq another meeting and whether t:sey will reconsice:, we

don't know.

n

o ^:---^


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17 -... :: .. :.' ~

.I\~.! !):':,.:£;!~ ~i.'t!f. ,acdin; hbellc::= ,::I:1t!,rl.a,~s ~nd seeing, ~o,., th~y ar~ removed ...... :'" "" .. :. : .. .

: ,::!'~.:.~~ ~y. "JNt. u, far as.t knew at, ~his ,~.en:. ,.,. haven't .. ." .. ' .. ' ".'" -, "

" start~d on tnis Projeet. However, I cien''; lenow what th1s is ' ..

" smoki~9 is not good fer him. Su: en the other hand. you e!~~at

the'! begin to ,.

... ~' have lus we:-::1u abc\Ot smokir:; than they .on~e had - that :.e:'::g

pur~ly ~sye:\eloqleal and no: cedieal at all. The next at:ae~

'~1." ;'\; ~I,/ 1: .~:~cc ::~i,ll._b;e !!.Q?:.~~.~ead~:;.s:,.oi9es:, ,:ut'we holV" ne I.nfe::natl.el'. 7.°::

.:'. :,-:=-11".' ir:;~.j ~:' ~h~.d, n~In~ .. ~?.!?, ~ },!!:_:.~~_ y,n~: th!,( ?h!" t~ eo. The::e will ~t

. , . . •• ' ••.• .: '" ;"" with it ~ de not lenew. AnyW3y t there 15 t:c::\endous ex::i :I!~:::t .. ...... :.1 ••• "" ..... .., ....... _ ' •• :_~ ......... " • f ." ....... '._ • ' ... ,. •

;:i;t ·l. : .. wlthin the !ndu:o~:-y ,:".~e:he: t~e,~:c:!te::l~n~ is tCl the eonsl:.c:

;Ci!~:;(-:-=.' I,.!.~on:~ knew, but l.: e.ln ~as~ly b~ .¥Ohc:n !\ea:ie:'s 01;cs':. =u=l~sh

T .~~.:.;.

~, fi:s: one, t~ou~h w~en th2 Re~=e:'s ~1;es: =e~an re,eat~~; ~~c stor! • lot ,. • ... .. •• • •• •

, :".': •. : r.:. ... .:

::.:.: :'.J,~~,:, :,~ ... ~':.er.d te phenol ~ .. ' ~ t'; ' ..

... _.'" .. ;:oi; "0 ... ' .: .. ... : .. ,,:"', .. -

... :i:;·~;~:.

. ... :.! ~ ••... ,. i.:"u ..

. ... ... ~ .. . .,

They

are ~lannl.ng a:'let!':er r::eeting a::d ¥Ohether they wi II :-eeons !.:e:-. w~ --. den't know.

,

c::::::::: -

.. . .. .. . _18_

. . . • •.• -c^- . .D.G.F. About two years aqo Reader's Digest ran an article an the

.. - ^- _ . .

^y -

T.M.W.

effect of iens'on ciliary activity and indicated cigarette smoke

in this. Did this have any effect on the publict

No one understood it, i.e.-, the mari in the street.•.-

„ . . .^, ..;ns. _.- a- . •_ _•. ,. :wc _- ._ _.-. '

C.D•3. == ^^-^ `:'' • = Leo (Laporte) -'do you want to talk an the same general

:.. .:^^: .'s!toplc? -•. -' _.iii:.... .'^:....:^'::^.. ^2^. . -..

;' , • ^. . . • , ...

^ii.:.l°. ^Ji •.^•r^ _.. ....:6^.T ^Q^ ^•L. .c,11^-^C^ -_^ •'_T" -, ^ ^. - .. . . ..

.t'..r. . .

^^::'.C, e:: 6Vb...:i::':'._ • . . _ . .

L. C. Laporte ' As Hugh Anderson has alread,y said, for some of us in this,

•` '_^= •-`,` ^',1+SOOL1, it is part of our job and responsibilities tothink aLout

°`- '•- As I'see'it, there•are three points of view. I On! is the

"D'to think aboir and try to make an assessment of these protlerr.s.

.--_6•'a!: ^-!: V-•' . .,. . .. _ ' .. _^. • - . .. . - •such things as phenols, multivent paper or anything else you want

::.. . ._ competitive situation based on our own particular territories;

"=t' '= two is the possible value of these things over and above the

any. If we do reruire any further information, how are we

going to obtain it? It is then our responsibility to advise

• Z make a decision as to what further information we require, if

Based on our assessment of these three points, wetthen have to

',cocpetitive situation,. and three is the urgency of these.

. ^'. .a _ . our respective Boards a; to what we-think the situation is,

and when I say 'advise', I feel that you can talkabout this

perhaps in an off-hand manner, which is one of the ways of

•- 'advising the Board, or you can •say "well; we think this is

--' pretty darned important, and I don't know how you'gentlemen


£ iJ,·~~t.·-··· '. t ..::; .. Ifit. ,' • .,;.,: . ."., ._) ..... -:;:..:-- . ,1-.. _ .. '._ ... : ..... .

'-

:~ . . . :. '.' ' .. -.;.. .. !. • .::.~.

---------_. __ . .. . .. : >f' .!."

. ..... '. : - 18 -! ".;;.~:: ... ~ ....... :~.

.... ', ..

,.; .. \,

~ . ~'. .:-0 ..

.,' ,.' .... ." - \:r ... ' .

" .. '\ -:;. At4ut two years ago Reader's Digest ra~ an artiele on. the

. :-." ,-:;. '. ,.:.' ~.i~'" .~:.: in th1~:;' Did this have ~~y effect on the public?

.!,.. I"~-".· .:': :..;.': ...... ! .. :~~.,.~::: .. ~;. .... : ~., ".0.: •• ~~ • .... Io:':.; .. ~\~ ... : . .•... ~:.~."!' .. : .. " .. ~ ~' .. __ .•. ~ .. .. II .. - '. '-... .......... :J ••• i.1II·we .. • n",,_ . ., ...... -...... a:""\:t. ___ •• roo ••• .l _ . ., ..... 2 .

,i' .. :;.~ . T 'M: ~ : ~.~.; :~;~::~;~:·.:ii~~:~ ~';:.;~~.~ No o~" un·~e·;~~~·~~·::~~;.:·~ e': . the an' 1n • __ ' r" •• ••• " ,', fO:. . . • •. ~.' •• , the saeet •

•. :~1

.:. . .-~" ... :;--,;. -if.', :~

-. .. .... . ~ . ,

. ' '.' " .~ ., ., . ' .. '. '.

-.

... .. ..:.

!.'

':' '"

.:. .~ .... .... - 'l,."

' .. .. '" .... *' .• .... C.Il.E • . 6: ~:',~.~.;.~~.: .... :::~: Leo (Laporte) _. 'do you want to talk cn the sallie general

L.

. --... -.- .... ~.-.. ~.-,.'..;:-.." . .' .. ·:-:.A-.;-:~U. '7' . ..,; .. :-:tcp1c'7 .... ~!i.'; ::ii;:.:-:.~ :-•. f\:~ ... ~:~:.-:-:~ ..... ':l:': : .. :....~

.. I:' . ~ : .:; ~ '''''. ., .. .' . '.' ......... .'::-~~ •. :-..c~~ ~:{! :'~!"~' :.:.".4 ,~:! ~~ .. ~.; ;;fJl~ t..::: ~'"~!:?!~~~:.~.:~ ·:!~T:': .. :.

, ........... : .. , t'

C:'Lap~~t·.-·~;\:":~ .~:~',.,.~ .. ':.~""; ':As ~~h ~d~~~a'n' h~s"already 'said, for, ,ome of us in this'

• .~'. ":':~"':.':l.~:~:~ ro~'~, it'is part of our' Job and;~:sp~ns1b111':les to think al:out . ' .

~4~.:-:. ·~'!:'.'~f·~:"<' $u~h t."Ii~9s· as' phenol~~" DlUl tivent' piper" or anyt.'ling else you wan t ~':',' .............. ~ .... , ...... :.. ... '," '. . .' ,.' w ..... " ~- ......... to think ~=ovt and try to miic~ an assessment of these prol:.len:s •.

," .. ';~~.::::;::.:.: l· ..... .! :':. A; I 'see'i{ th~re"a;e thne points of view. On. is the . .;. , .. " ',. '

• .... 't .tl"~ ..... _ ,,. .. ' • • :

.......... ,'J ·col:lp~titive situation based on our own particular territories;

.~: '~:':I" ::w"::two is'the possible ~alue of th~se thin9s over an9 above the , ·-.:·;·,..:o:-··· .. coc:petitiv; sit.uation, 'and three 1s the urgency of these.

Based on our assessment of these t.hree points, we then have t.o

;'meke a decision as to what !u~ther infor~tion we requi=e. if

any. If we do re~ire any further informa':ion, how are we

. ;oin9 to "btdn it? It 1s then our respons~biliiy to advise

.'.' ;;',::0: :=:":::-cnir respective Boards is to what .... think the situation 1s,

." and ... hen I say '.dviu', I feei 'that you can talk about this

.perhaps in an off-hand =anner, which is one of the ways of

'advisin9 the !aard, or you can 'say "well; we thin~ this is

... ... ~:: :' : .' . . pretty darned icportant, and I don't know how yougentlemen

,

..

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it's no use labouring the point for I believf we were caught

=^'• t==+ %:'=with our pants doen. •This is a cuestion of, I think, trying

C:

:t::T 19.•^ _. ^ .. " -

2=;•`•2.Lfiel about it,'but we think something should be done about it,

oi perhaps something might happen coepetitively, sooner than

tu"we•wouid like it:" -, In this particular instance of phenols

}=`no=r'^= a=ito develop sufficient foresi;ht, and this isn't always easy,

=nulo='•^^t e's'and to perhaps not have this happen - I`+on't say never to

a=•'=' =1=•'= .:happen again =.'but it shouldn't hapaen too frequently, tZat's

,J2=2 S'"

for sure.

Now in Canada we are a little bit in the same

position as they are in the United States in that competitively

we have the odd rogue in the crowd who. I think, will take

i^_•': ia »a •..:. advantage of every situation poss2ble ;ust to get a foot in the

•' ^='=•-=• market. •'I think that t.his rsight put a different cozplexion on it

^'--= and Australia might also be in this position. Under such circura-

.^. .. ^,:• -.• stances,' I believe that we have to be even r..ore cognisant of the

^^% =` r• cocpetitive situation. : From the medical point of view and I

--•"'% =•• • think that Bob Wade will agree, that speaking generally, the

•.-»• medical fraternity more and more have arrived at the opinion

that there is a casual relationship between smoking and lung

C^•i-=' "+ cancer. -I think this opinion is based; in the case of the

-- •• . :Y -:average medical man, si=ply on reading newspaper articles and

y'. •:perhaps some of the scientific literature. Of course, when the

-'••a R.C.P.•Report caze out this clinched the matter as far as the

average medical man is cohcerned and perhaps as far as the man

in the street is concerned. til+ether'the average smoker,^

the public, would tend to forget this or not I don't know, but


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~!:::.!. L:he1 about it, but we thlnk something sh~uld be done about it.

\-n~: ::: or perhaps something might happen cOC:;letfUve1y, sooner than " ':.' ..

. ~ t~vL. ::! ~~I:~~e-:w::i~ld 11lte it~1I ,j In t."is part1.c:ulu instance of phenols ~, ~

.- :4.~ ~,~: it'. no u •• 1.~ou:in9 the polnt to: I :Illevi WI were caught . '.:.

~.\ oJ., .• . ,. 'i' h' t' d _.. ., •• " '" , w t. our pan $ o",~. ·'This 1s • question of, 1 think, trying

~~~~::~~ c~lto develop su~fi~ient 'foresi;ht, and t."ls lsn't always easy,

" :.~ :::v!~:~ll:; ."r.,Ja~d to perhaps not have thls happen - 1 won't say never to

a~~:' ~;'!.4.: ,:ha~pen ac;aln -.'~t it shouldn't h.appen too frequenUy, that's

for sure.

position as they ne 1n the United States In' that eompetitively

.J::I t~': ;'-:::::.we have the odd rogue 1n the e~owd wno, ,1 t. ... 1nlt. will take

i,,'"': ;:;$ ~' ... ;:,. advantage of every situation possible ~u.st t.o get a foot 1n the

:,.: ',: ~ ~.:;., IIIOrket. ,'1 th1.nk that t.'\is might put a different eO::'lplex1.on on it

Under such eirc:UQ-

.: .. :: ...... ,;. .:-~.~~. sU:lces,' 1 I::elieve that we have to ~e even core coc;nis.nt, of the

.N~.·· ;.;.'., .r. '.-:: 'cor.:petitive sHuation. : F::m the =ecH;~l point of view and I

•• , ~,:', ::: , think that 30b Wade will a9~ee, t."at speak1.nc; c;ene~ally, the

..:.;:; :.": . '!DeciLcal frate:n1ty c:o~e .nd mQ~e have a:;-:ived at t.'1e opinion

~V:::~ ~; :~._that there 15 a casual relationship between smoking and lung

r: .. L~· ~, i':~i canc:er. . I tMnk t."is opinion ls basec!~ in the ease 0 f the

:.-::. :.~ ·""·,Y ':averilge c:led1callUn, si:::ply on reac!in; newspaper articles and

~':':. Z .:pe:haps some of t."e scienti!1~ !iterature. Of eourse, when t."le

~.'.-: ....... R.C.P. Repo=t c:ame out this c:lir.:heci th~ matter .5 fa: as the

average medical man is c:ohee:ned and pe~hap, as far as t."e :::an

1n the street ls concerned. ~~et."er 'the average smoker. , the public. would tlnd to forqet this 0:" not I don't know, !::ut

,

^-` '•^^ ^ the other day, how can we hold the fort until we have sufficient

•'cCancer Societies will bring out other articles and their

^=j=•`="iq^-educational programmes, etc., are certainly going to carry• , . . ;• . .. . • . . .. . • . . • • • . .: a%,?•Rq: •.=o+i.'::The U.S. Public Health Report also will bi out in 1963 -

•• •••.: •..... . ..... ,, •.

=.44" Ox^^•I •cannot see how they can get It out much quicker than that -

?^=i•%.e3rtiiso'that this is a situation we are going to be faced with for„ ..e.. _. -

'^ti^::^^t^•'a•^isome time to come. In the meantime, as Sir Qtarles mentioned.. •.::. ^

'=R+^.sY=%"lnformation to really make a positive advance? I think. .. .. •:: ,„• ..-.

is-where we stand-at the moment.

!tSta, J•_O S: •::. '0 ^.:i. ^u bSG,_

.C.D.E. rtt . :Thank you very much

- , ..r... •t .. .,ia1 fic>. ;^tr.t:s As far as I can 'see

it seems to me clear from what

i:,..

, •.,^• ^, :...._ •

the situation re holding the fort,

has been said here that we all feel

that in the future we csst assume

:•;>:taking the initiative of telling our

.^;e,re.forecast for the future. Set out like

. .,-s•Me must not have a weekly scare - wolf, wolfl -but the choice

this it:is fairly obvious,

_...i: 'but I don't think myself I had felt it quite so clearly as expressed.

.. . .. . .:f is plain and however^ • . • .-.further than that.

^_. . .:responsibility the futtire and of telling

Boards about it. That is one point.

. ^,:-,discussion but to ensure

forget. The

I don't want to limit

that certain practical points are

:;; discussed. .-I want to write

-throw the subject really open.

much we talk around it we won't get much

But all of us feel this sense of an active

CJ


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. . I don't th1nk he wllJ gift. 1llUc:h opportunity to forget. The

.:.:. ~':.;.~.;,.,;." .:-::Canc~r SochUes will bring out other articles ..,d their

~n:.-!;·,:·~f.~~~'~edUCat10nd programmu, etc:; I%'e certainly golng to cury ... .:....... ~.~.~.~ 'j' ":: .... .' . . ..': .. ~ ....... :',:0.. . : ..

, < .!"~~~:t·:.leOll. ·~:·:the U.S. PlIbHc H .. lth Report aho w11l b* out 1n 1963 -.. .... : .:.:~ ','. '.. '., ..:..' . ......., .......

'::l;.J!.:: .~"··I ·cannot see how they c:an get 1t out ICUch Cluiclulr than that -• .,' 0"

9:'1~~:· .~n.r;'.o·that t."Iis 1s ~ &1~uHion we ~n g01ng to be laced with for ,.. ,. .. ~ ' •. ~'.' .. ' .. :.;y~" l.';·&~~,ollle time to cOllie. :: .; ..•. '\: .~ .. ~-~~"~'.~ ... ,:~.

:', • ..: .~~ v~~' the 0 ther ...... .' .-.. ~' '-, ";.~·7·~ :~~ .. ":,,. '.:-:.-;'. .. ,~::~·~·.'c,\!;~lnform.at1on to nally ~ke a positive advance? ; I th1nk this " "0 .. • '~ •••• : : ': ~.~~ • ~ :.~-" •

.' '>~'if~: ... ~:,~~h~~.~,; we sta~~ ~t the moment. • c--..£~'-r.:' •. -.'.7'·0 ~".':'" ,,_. "" ,.; .. - .... ~ ..... ; .... ! ., .; :: ... ~~:~:':. ~ .. ~~? ...... ~.'~ .. :: ~ ~: ':. .'."~ ~. ~ ... - ,-.' .... .

:it·.,;..!!.l'~-:\::'· j.:-!1.'''l'-.!$!Thank you very I:IUch •. :,.~~ il';-,:,:!,;:~"~

\In the lIIunti::e, as S1r Chirle. lIentioned . ', ... ~ .;.;.-

day, how can we hold the fort ~nt1l .e have suffic:ient ~ .... ... .

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• .. : ....... :. ' .. ~. ,. , ••.• 1

:",:" :;, :;.,- ·":t::1·:..1' ! ·,As fOIl' as I c:an lee the 11 tua tion re holcl1ng the for~. ' .. '. . .. : ~ ~.:.. : ..... ' .

..... : .. ~.: :.').:~ .. ~ it .lItems to lIIe c:lur froo what has been ule1 het. that we ~ll !eel ......... : ....

·f ' ... #

'-:.:;-:::.1 .!.:.;~ ,!.:·;"t,aklng the lnithtlve o! tell1ng our :espeetlve'Boarcis our

Set out like th1$ it:1s fairly obvious,

: : ' .• "Ji'o' 'but I don't think myself I had reI t it Cluite so' clearly as expresseci_ ... ~", ",

,,'~ ,'.'~. -:·We IlUst not have :a weeldy scare - wolf, waUL - but the choic:e !. ,:.'

: .. ':,-:.-; .:l1s plaln and however ltI.Ic:h we talk arClunci it we won't g.t lIIuch ... ~ ....... But ~ll of us feel this sense of an ac:tive

. :.t~ •. ~ •.... '. "'.: ':: Hrnponsibil1ty of making ~ foncast for the fu~ure and of tellil'!g

t:~~ .;~: 1:',our Soards about 1 t. That 11 one point • I don't want to limit t .•• ,' ..

N \<1::'- dlseussion but to ensun that c:ertaln pnct1c:al points are , . . '.

... :j~ dlseussed. 1 w~nt to -.1te locet.'11ng on the bOnd and then

.•. : ~ :throw the .ubject really open. . '. . ' .. .. ~ ~; .•.. !..~ ..•. : .....

. ..

,

:

A vcry interesting ;.oint raised by Hugh Anderson is •-

Oresticr. 1 Should Harro?ate tesr, the bioloSical aetiv:ty of

filtered and ,.••tiFiltered eigaret£es? -^• ^• =?; r_i^,:c ^-. • :^^_sa: - .--•.--• • -

... _ Oue_st:ar 2 Are present tee.haiques of phenol neasure-:nt de xndable9

.^. . .. ^: . .. . .. - . .. .._... .

s^:, r.^^ . ! . . . .. ^. . .... :..._ _ :r• • .'-

H-:)•A• Not just•;iltered and ur:ilt±red, but also cthers.`---^~" .._... ._ ._ ....._. . . ... .

,...LiE': 9!'-' E..-.. 't JC '5^..Z C. .. G.. . .. . .... ..

Certainly. I fully un3erstarc: the implicaticn of your

point.

...._.1L^ •3 :: ^.V:. '.

In ar.sv:^r to Cuestioei 1- - undoubtedly yes, but : think

the ti•.h.c1t re.^.esis of hs:rog:te was wtilst the chenis:s in the

various latr.at.:ies t:..e.ca--ying out various expe_iments, e_c., •£

etc., nobody knew tche:her they were doing any ;ood. We all felt

the sa.:e - unless :-'c te=t biola;:cally we will never !sno«. The

qucsticn that _nen trisc: is :hcn should Ha:.ocate do t::is7 And that. -...:!.. ... .. _.,. . _ • .;

raises other Foin:s. Once Fa=ronate is ooe;atir.g tze:e will

a trer..endous queue of proble^s for them to exar..ine and •nork on,

and we are ;air.g to have sor.._ extre:..ely difficult r.ic:ity

. _. :._•.._dec`s:ens. ..__., _- ?ca.-. . .. • _..... :

_ .at^. ' - ; _zan:^:. :x^: ...2.'::.- ._ r.r•... . ''•-_

C.D.S. we agree r,•e can tell the Cor.ference that we can at least. ._.. . a.' .. .:-_._ . . . . • ....

rcise this considercticn at ous next T.M.S.C. meetir.r„ which is

_ on ttednes^ay (7th July 19622).

I was ,cing to ask r.hether Fieldsend v.ou1d su-po_t

us in su;;es:ing that :da:roTate should be ekter.ded in unde:ta<ing

the investi;at:cn of cilia activity fairly early on. This could

be done without interfercnee to the bio-assay experi=ents.


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" A very in~erlstir_9 ;:olnt raised by HI.\;h Ande~son 1s .. ', .....

, ., filtered and t::\!i!~ered cigarettes? ,.-: .~~=:'):,:'!:: ;:~~-'""'-.' '. -~".

.;. •. .1- ••

.. .,. - -_ ... ----- .... O .. es~i=!" 2 An present teel'::I!.::j1.:eI: of phenol CI"sl:re::!ent C:er-en:1.lbh?

'=': . ....... .. .- ...... . ••. -.-... '.

H.:l.A. .' Not just n.lte~ed and ur.!ilUn:, :ut also ethers. • ", : ",.~ • .! :.: ~ -::.. :;. ,', ~ .. ...... eo.. • " •

c.;:).:. Ce:-t~ir.ly. I £::.l.Y 1.:1".derstar..:! the im;:licaticn 0: you:-

point •

: '

:. C. Fie~=scr.d

c.;:).:.

:).Ci.F.

various l~:~::t::i~s w~:~ Cl=~1i~g ou~ va=~o~s eX~Q=i~en:s, ~:e.t ." .. -:..; ... _,. .... - . ',.- ...... ,.. . etc., no:o:::, Icnew \ ... .,e;:h~r thc'! ,,:~rc doin; any ;ood. \'Ie ~ll fe!. t

.;;~! ;;:.;.;

. . qu:stic:'\ :~fl: ~~en ~=isc: 1s '::~cn shot.:!tl Ha==o;ate :0 ~h!.:i7 A.n:! tha-: :.:~~.~," ... __ .. ' _1 .... - ...

.... :. !:. ~.

• 'O .....

rillses :)':!'Ier l=0in:5. ,Once r.a:ro~.lte is ope;a~ir.; t:"lerc ¥lill ::e ~. _.. .

_a~~~:::an=o1.,;l; que:.:~ of p:cble~s for the:! to ~xa:::ine an~ ..... o:-k on, . .... ....... .. . .

and we ,are ;o~n; ~o hav~ so:::e extre~ly difficult ~~ior~ty

" We a';=ee \"Ie c:a~ tell the Cor_ference that we C:.::In at least ]o .. ~.: .:':: :-:~=;.. .... ..' -:-.'O... .

, .~ .. -: : :. '!. ~

- "; ~ ..

I was ~::in,'] to asle whether "...... Fleldsend ~~uld S1.:~=o;t

us in sU'j';jes tine; that ~~:~Oli:il te should !:Ie elc:ter.dea 1n undc:~a:<ing

the 1nvest~;~t~cn 0: c:i11a activity fairly ~arly on. This could

be done wi thout irite~:!renec toJ the :io-assay experi::ents.

,

;^^. • :^

E.C.: . __ - ^ It's a question of priority.

C.B.=

-rr3==this meeting that they would wish their delegates to the T.S.C.

^ ' ' -- - --- ------^ •- -^- --- •should follow up .ye lines .hat

a qta ck extension into ciliary activity could be;raised

caU:. Fieldsend has irdicated and follow it up actively.

r• Felton s u a .°sha te .s ^Y

.

...:^:

. `. ..

Are there any alternatives to Harroga:e? How about

: U.S.A. and Canada9

a; ` ^_

C.O.Z.

. . ^: ,

L.C.L », .,•::

..

, : .

. ^^ ad3 j2_' ^ ' a: la: ^ •s ^ __. .

r!::Coiu-!: us, Ohio, Pattelle. Leo (Laporte), can you hetp?

.^ ^ vi:. ;•.Z: r. ;-.,. ^; . _ ^ d..>:, „-.. ^r ..

-. -a:=.a We tiave, as you know, arranged biolo;ical tests ftom

_.: time to time. We have one going on right now, b:lt I tt:ir.k

.:- perhaps you could arrance scaethir.g atong these lines oroviding

...: it's not facilities.too extensive a test - I'm thinking of the

, ._. -- -^=••.^ • _-. . . . ..

C.J.c

phenol measurer:ent dependable? -

=^^=== T take it we are interFreting correctly the opinion of

raise the qc:es:ion at T.:S.S.C. next Wednesday - at least that

..r7 s would get their minds working. **We Nill report on the result of

:.;: -:• ,,; -this meeting to the people present today.

Refer: ng to Question 2 are present techniques of

I believe the most practical way to do this will be to


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. ... J:. .•. :'::i.blt's a question of J:jriority.

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c.o.~. .,..:.'. ~i'J:~~"t:'I' take it w:e' ar'e 1nte:i~;t!n9 co:-rc=ly the opinion or • ..... "" ' ... ,:.", -:: .... ~ ..... ' ... oo. "....! • . • ; '4~"'. .., "' ... ' .. " .... _ ";:'~!:~-:':,::"I~~'; '.':::·:""'l'-::':thls meeting' th&~ 'they ~uld wish tht1:- dele9&tes to ~h. r.s.c. ~':~; ••• : ..•.. "t'! ';- ,~:'''' .. :''.,: .•.••.. : . : •• , ".;

.;:.~ ... ::. .... who U'. j:lrnfn~ in this ::-oem .should follow up ~!'I. nn.s ~hat . , , .~ ; ~·~,:':.;::o c. ~ lot:-. Fieldsend' hu !.l'idicate: "~'iollow 1 t u~ a:~1vel y • . ~". \... , .. '

• ".' . , :, : .• " . & ~1c:1c utens!.on into Ciliary actl.viey could be: raised as

. " .:-... '.:.:.' ~.:, ... ~ - "'alton ... ··5· s·u:-::;'_s:~:'~.' ":.'/;~~!: :':';:i. ~:,.. ,:.:J"~ .t:. •• ~.-,;-~ •• 1"'...- Ue .,~ _""_

., •• ".' .~: .. : •• ' oo~.~' ,* .. , ........ : ••

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....... :: .. ~~ " "

E.C.::. \ . Are there any a!tern~tives :0 Ha::':'oga:11 How about

- ~ • .... ... 1

,,·u.s.:.. 'and Canaca? . .. .

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. .. . . ,

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=_'J .~'~'1::::·~·,,-:~:s· .!::::;':'Coh::::::Js~ Ohi~. 2..it.telie~· .~~. (r,;;:~;~e), can you he l;l? .... -

• ....... "'f' ~ .. .... ."

.- ,\'::.~:' ~,.:~r. ;:~,,,. \'i"e ti,ive, as you k'riow,"arra~'ged biolo;i:l!l tests ~ror:\

:: ~ ~ '. - ;,. time to t 1m!!. . i'le have oroe go'ing' on 'right now, =1.!t I t!': ~l'.k ." .. ~ .,

, .. ','~-': ::.,,:~ 1t's not too extensive a test. - I'CI'thinking of the facilities.

: ... ,; ... .;..'.: .... .. ....

I believe the :::ost ~racti,al ~'y to do t~i: will ~ to . .... raise the C;Ults-::10n at T.:~.S.C. next Wecnescay _ at. least th!t

.,', o. . .' .- ~::;) i::woul:l get thel:-":inds ~r!<in;. "We ~ill re?Q:t 0:'\' the resl.:lt of

.::-.-this muting t·o the people 'i'r~s~'ni\cday. .. . .... MO ••

R.ferring to Cuestio~ 2 - are present techniques of

phenol meas~:-e:::ent. depend~ble? ~. ., .... : .:.::-:. "':: ::'"

. .... ,.

- .... :.:.

,

:S: .:7 • !L 'Je.

Wc`ve been havfng a look at this problem during the la,

give us not an accti:rate but s realistic type of arsswer

2. Develop a reference or standaraâuthod.*,, _ . ... , .._ _ - .... .. . - . . .

... .:.^ :

C.'tole S-oRe12th Pu.°=

G.L.C.Phos-Phate co1L.n

Screen^êt^c^

Filters, U.V.A'ethodB'^c'^

- ;ITotal Phenol :

Phenols Itself

5/1CV,3C0 56 t 2% 39 36 -

6/37,C:.J'.. k t 4% 53 -- - '. 56 59, 7=

Triace-ate A 54 t 5%-puff)28 (5t7 27 `5t^ ou2°.) E4, 3-7_

9 5

Triacetate B 59 t 3A 37 32 69, 93

R'cte:

2. The =.h and 12th pui.° .cs::lt °roa:z G.: C::ethod on T.-iace'aver=ge out to a:^roxi.:.acely 54%. We•do not conter.d _nst.-are its exact value at all, but theyare probably reaiisti^

3. The Screening Method consists of passing phenol vaô_r (nc•thrcucn the pIL;. We are not sure of these results s-ncefilter olug may be actir.g as a cohdei+ser rather than a fi:because there is a te:coe:-t::re SradiOr.t in the ohenol ;enc'

_ :; .. .._ and un?ilt_red sa:o<e.1. U.V. Method: Canbridce F-ilter collection, comparison af

2. S^•.'^^=7 ':^f'n^'.^

Yfe are hal:-Lay thraugh this. rihat we olan to do is ._ :... _a•:.^^ ^. : . .. , .. v

take smoke and carry it'througl an extraction procedure using

C14-labelled paenol as a marker to that procedure and havin; gc`

a conce~ re.e then add sometìng like ct:lbrcphenol or triêt1y1

phenol as a rarker to the final G.L.C. stage.

..

1. Rn^T1•.T ..... ^ . .. ^

-


~?:~:' ~~ .•. -.::- ,.-:-':"! ~:..:~.'" •• '". c;.~ .. ; '~'''.: .... '<:, ' -,

,,'"' . ... ,".;:' .. . .... .,;: .:: ......... :: ...... :'-.... , .... :-.... ~J.: ..... : ; ...• -::.;..: · ' . :' .. ..!:.: · -., . .,-, -' ....... ~-. .:.~. , .' .... ~ ".:

" ." ........ ..

.. - ":0-

; .... -". -

, ' , '

...... ..: .. · ", .. :

.-.... t .,. ,:. ',;'

~ ,f

, ~

-;1 "

t t

~

,. -~ ,J

.. P'

. ,' .

-,

:

i\

I ~

I 1 1 l' .. ' t,

1 'j l i: I. J

J ,J

J l j

-.

'-

......

j~.1"'" " .... : ..... " " ' .. -, 23 .. ' .. : ~::

.'~' . -. t·, ::.

I. ~~ H~ghe~ '0 .' ...... _ .,.- .. . . ~.

week o~ so ~rom two as~e~ts:

: .0' • . ........... . ~;_.;~~:;:~:lI ~:.~:.!~·Je ... :::. • .;'.;!--:~ .......

2.

9ive us not an ac:~:ate but a' r'al1stic: type of ar'lswe: .. " ..... -. ~ ' .. -". _.. ~

D.velop a reierenc:e 0= standard'method. ' • , .. , ....... 4, ~ r-:, ':.~ ... ,'-: .. '.: •. .... ..'... "'

1. .. ~ ........ "':":: ..... -:," ...

.. ', .. --.; ... '., ... ..

.... . ..... .

........ :,,: : .. _..' .......

Of' ...... :

; --: ::

~;~~le S::-,oice , Ci.t..C.?hos- I Sc:=e~n .... - ... ~~ . r ,- .... ,·-1 12~!'I ?u ' =' phat. ~ol>.::'.n . _ .. -.. I ~t,et.:'\c:! Filters' ~:~. ,~~~~:~~~d~ I I I ==I::C:, ... ; ','~ ... , Total Phenol Phenols Its.!!

~/lOJ,:cO ~6 -: 2% 39 36 -..... ', . ' . 1. ~37 ,~v.:l, .. ':~6c:i ~ 4;:> 53 ~6 ~9, 7~

T=iac:e:ate A 54-: 5% 2S (5th pu!!) 27 (~th :::1.1::) 64 , 37 ( 79 ) ( 75 )

Triac:e:ate a 59 ...

J% 37 32 S9, 93 - -...... , " ", .... .. ..: .- .. eo:) !

.. " '" '-, ,~ .... ..... . .. . , . .. ' - ' , - I

. . .'- ...... ":' •. . " . ....... 1. U.'1. Met.!'loc:i: Car:\oridc;:!' ?~lte~ cQlle~~ion, ec::tpa:-!.son c: !:

" ! ','_ '; ,:,:. :.' , ',::, _ and un:!.l t!!red slI:oke.

2. The ~:h a:\d l:!~h plOr: r!!s-..:l: ~:O!l Ci.~.C. ~,~ethod on T=iac:e,:' aver!;e out to a~roxi~;ely 54~. We eo :\0: c:~~:c~= :~3: .

, .' .~, a=e its exac:t value at all, but they are ;:=~bably reai.isti~

2 •

Tne Sc:reening Me~oj ec~sists of passing ~~enol var-o'.:r (n~' th:-euC;n the ph:;. \'#e are ::0: su=e of these resul:s s:'n~e : fil:e= plIO; ~~y b. ac:t:'~; as a c:on:enser=ather than a :11: bec:ause the:e is a te~~er!t-..:=e graeient in :he phenol gen!!:

, . :' .... ,' .. ~ : .. ... ' .... ----:"

~hat we plan to :0 15 ~ : .... ,' . .;:;.::. ·7f£·t;,.··· .10'... . ...

take smo~e and c:arry it :~~~;~ ,an .xt:ac:~ion ~roc:ed~=e using .... - .. .

C14-labelled ~heno1 as a ma:ke= to that proc:edure and havin; gc:.

a c:e:\c:e~::t:e then add so~!:~~~; like c:~lorQ~he~ol 0= tri~e:hyl

phenol as a ca=ker to the :~~al G.t.=. stage~

\

\

\ \ I

,

The phenol situation which developed in Louisville could

l.

,• ^:. .". .. . • ^ . . . . . .

.f .

--tT_=^""::-"= :-'•: 7leuld somebody from Louisville tell us about their methods?

...

-prepared.

24 -

:^- to'•the -coricept that tobacco quality is

^._In these circumstances the oaly thing we:. 7G •^ ^ ^: i r ^.. . . . ^ .

-t

subscrited conpletely

.

r4- :ie Tennessee :agt-sart.procedure. We have done work on this^- .- • .... . ---.. . -•• -

:,.,basic procedure and two others which are:-,.•: .. 1 . . , • . . .^ ., . ^.^_.- . •, _ , . .

^• ^_^.1. _•G.-.C.procedure of Tennessee East».an, which is a

modification of the Hoff»zan-4Yynder proce3ure..: : . ,. .,. . • „ • ,

--2. ^ Ray:urn orocedure based upon the paper chroratogranhSc`-

=» ' separation of a coloured derivative of`phenois.

3.^""Colorimetric determina,ion of the total phenol

R. B. Gri!=ithi . ... • , .^

.. :-. ..-o:

frc:a a steam-volatile distillate...^ . , .. .. --• • . .

The data this far obtained do substantiate the data we

had been told.;• - - • . ... ^, .

All 'hree procedures fit in very closely as,far as the

-,:fil-:ocion figures are concerned. They are of th;e same order of

no matter which procedure we use. Also, although the_ ^^ . ..^.. _ . . - ... j_ .. . .. ... . . .. . .. ..

absolute values do not agree, in ceneral it does not seem to make

..too much di:'ference aecause all give filtration values vhich agree.

We have found'that polyethylene glycol as an additive

:: ^ _::'.; ^.: • • ..can :ncrease the selective filtration for phenols; We have also

foLnd, or confirmed, the Celanese claim that the threaded-roll

process gives a slightly higher selective filtration. (7te do,

Celanese•think that the level of triacetate has an effect

on .°iltration, and Tennessee Eastman that the triacetate level has


.:; ..

.1'

. ::" ... -: .,:t: ' ~

.- _ .. . - -...

. ;:- ...

\ . ., • , .. .. ~.'

:.

'.' .....

'. I.

'. 1".' . :.: . • ~: ... ~:",_. t,!,,-:.: .' • .,; ...... .. . .. ',' " .... ":-:':: -:. ..:'

R. B. G:i~:~th·'· .~:.l':'·;:: ~:':', The phenol situation which develo!'ed in Louisville could '<~~~'~'.~'- ".:"'~.~.~ ... ~< ................ : .. ':.' .

;:" ;,.;.~':', .. :.::! :: I'·W,~ ~~"not have caught us 1Il0re lll-pre!'ared. We haw I~bsc:it:ed cCl:!pletaly . ...., . ..; •.•. ~: ... .-' ..• ' .. ·· .. ~;; .• :t·'?· 'the '0 ecncC!j:t that ·t·oc.ceo quali ty is our area al\cl we had notMn;

' .. ", . '

. .... " .... ..... 1n our ~ro~ra~e which suited us to handle thts ty~e of problem.

., .. ~_~-:-~ ____ ·In these circ1.::nstanees the only t!\ing we C01.:1d do was to tu:n to .... _.'\ -c::"~ ~ ,:" , r<:"':-' .,.~'~ .... ,'. ! ..

::. I . ;,~ .. ::.;::,: .-.,:,,:!~; ·~~.! .. Tennessee Ea~t::\an .proc~ure~" We have cone wqrk on this ",,:-!;J:V.~ .... '._~ ___ ._.,_:_ .. ~.~"..:'~ .' ' ... _ ..

.' -,--." .. \

: .. ':: ~ .. -: .. ~ :

. .'-. . .

::: !~i;~sie !,roeedun and two others which are:-'So " :'\ .... " . l ... ·1-- ... .: ~ .' " : .... -' ':.:......1. _.G~:'.C." proce;:!ure of Tennessee Eas-;..-.an, whieh 15 a

~:-, ~',''';' .,'-: . ..... ~::.! I:lodifieati~:" of the ~of:::\an-Wynder pro~edure.

I"'~.":;.", •. ".,,:,:,~ ... , .•.. ":' •.• J.~. " •• " ~ .~ ~ ~:;:: f'. •• : -2. ' 'Rily:urn orocedure based upon the pa~er c~ro::.atogra1='h1c

• '. t":" . .1 ... ' : { , • • ..• : .... '

$;;: I. separation"of a coloured deriva~ive or ·pher,ols • .. , . . ~. ,.... -_.- -'-' _ ..... ----·------3; '--Color1m'et'::-ic dete:mini~ion of the total phenol

f::-cm a st~am-vo13tile distillate •. . .. -.'. ... '':, ..... "') .. : ;..... . ........ .

r·· • • ~ .. , The data this far obtained do su!:stant1ate the data we

" :;;.4 _-: :' .. ", ' " ... ' had been told •. . .':;:: : ......... '.'

~ ...... - .. : .. :..:.:': .:.: =::' #"0.' , •••••• .,.

.All ~hr~e' procedures fit in very closely as .far as the

.... ... I~: ....... .

.. '~.:. .... ~

'.- t

.:::. fi~ :.= .. ~ion figeres are concerned • They are of th, same order of " ': ':" .•. :""'~ t.·

':", CIa." ... t;;ae, no matter whic!,\ .,rocec!\;re we use. Also. altho1.:~~ the '!~." ... ~-t": - .:.~. : ~ •. :' .: ...... - ::·:.rz ' •. ':~.' '. ,': ,

absolute values do not agree, in ~eneral it does not se~ to make '~oO~~: .. ;" • . . :. -'t

too ~uch dif~erence oecause all give filtration v.lues ~ni~~ agree • .;. .. .. ... of.

: ..•.. :'. "oO ,; .. :'oO .. -We have round·that polyethylene glycol as an additive

fo~~d, or eon:i~~d, the Celanese claim that the threaded-roll

'::.: 'process gives a slightly higher ~elec~ive filtrat~on. (We do.

of course. usC! the same te~~niques of phenol meas~rement.)

Celanese.think ~at tha level ot t::lac.tate has an effect

on filtration. and Tennessee Eastman that the tri~e.tata lavel has

--~

"

r r ~

[': I.~ (: ,~ -e-

(; ·t r :~ r 'f" r; (.' ..

,

f .j I: ·t I:

.0' ,

.. ~.' .

-25-'. -

^

we have have not been treated In the way they say they are.r. . .... .

'rrankly, o_- 114.ceroy with the threaded-roll °_stron filte: is down

in the :Cer.,, ranga.•'l' „ ^ ,

. ' ' .

I do not really kno.: how -:uch reliance we can piace an•^• ....

`.he fioros, but the ract that we got the same answer rem t::ree

^no effcct. This may be a case of the :E2 versus the threaded-roll.

".Je have sê data on coapetitive brands.• . .^:: : _ , .

:;.,, „ Kent C'_-%rett?s: This far we have not been able to substantiate '

.._.:, Loriila-d's•.clai:u. This may be due to the fact that the ci;aret=es

di,:ierent raetncds does r,ive -e soae de;ree of car.:idance i t:ae s.

As our r.or:< has crcco^ded, altlcuyh the absolute values havei :

changed, the relative values have not, and for this reason i do

3 believe th3t on the basis of the intor-atioh that we have there is

., 1__. . ..

Pol°•'c-'i i' ^â"doesn'^ atte- aâ` the Oz C sit

,.. sonething to this selec=:ve ?::tration...^+

..... . .... .

._ .. . . . . .. . ,.. . . .. c_

really are. It dcacr._c an at the reader's ?iaest does a:oLt

it. It is vital for us to place ourselves In the strongest possible

CamCatitive =asit_"aft.

We have already zzd an exacple of what Kent can do with

regard to tar and nicotine and this is one of the reasons x-iy we

have been so concerned about this prabless. Î cannot see any cocd

reason v,hy we should not re,:a•re the ; henois: I do not thir.;: anyone

can su;:,est a rea.on vhy it would be desirable to leave taea in if

we can remove thea, and for that reason alone we should take them

out.

In a sit;:aticn such as this It is 'isspor:ant to keep abreast

of things as they haPPen. For example, both Bob Wade and myself

have made arrangements to have daily results sent to us at Southa=Pt1n.


_'f .... • -til.,,,,;;; • ~ ..... ~~.~. ~~~.;" ~,-.": .. :' -r..~;::' -;.~, .. = .. ~".:' "'-' .'. .... -..,..::. -:. : .. '

:i "'J: "~.40,. ...... :

" ... :~. :..;.-:

~.;.~; , -!: :-

.... jo .'

" ..... ~"" .

... .:~ .

.... "

~' .. -. ....

. . ~'.

..

" . ~ .. . • .. ~ ..

t ~ r 1·' r t l r .. -r r r .' l. 1 ~,

1 1. . .. \.

1 .t.

1 ;

L ,-

L l L

.' " -..:.

---.. ~ ... ------~ .... .. .. .. . ',.

. ". '.:. ," ,..: ; . ~ . !" ••••.• '

25 .'

. , :' .. : .:. '. "" ...... , . . ' '.

........ :-. ~. no .the:. This may be a case of the :~: versus the thr.aded-r~ll.

.'

.\ .. - . This may :e aue to th~ fa:: that the ei;a~ettes ; .. " .• '"'; ,.

~. i=rankly, Q~r Viceroy ..... i~h ~~i ':hna::leci-rcll :'s':.ron filt.e!' is do..n '''!: :","; .;.~ i,:.! j'.::' .• -.. • '. ". ~ .. ..... ..... .

_ ...... __ . __ ". , : ,in :'he ~<er.~ rdn~~. ~ ·'r ... r- .:. -." '. .. :: .. :. ... > .. ~.:-: .. ~~ !"~~ . .!7::~:".!:I'~~';"':' ~ .. ·dO :'!ot really kno.·; how ::II.:ch reliance we can plaC!! on

. ::;':' !';:;'.:' ':" '1~ the. fig1.:res, cu: :he iac: tna': ... -e 90':. ~he !lame answer from ~~ree . , .. " ..... . . " ,; , i. ',;: .'::" .. di:ier;!nt r:letncds does ~ive ~e sO::le de;!'e~of ~or.:ici~nce in :;,em.

• 4. .l.. • ...... '

: .; .~~; j: .. ; '., '. r..:"": As ou!' \'.~rk has oroc!!!!c:ied, althcl.:;h the aDs,olute values nave

" ,I ,', ::;;':~ ';':. .changed, ':.he :-e"a;:'ve values h3V~ r.ot, and for this reason r co

belie'!e ~i13t on :h;l 'ouis 0: ~:le in:or:::~~io~ :hat we hav~ :he:-e is

-.... :.~:-~' : .. sor!1e-:hi~g to this selec~!.ve :~lt:-;ltion.

•. :r .. -.- .

really a:-c. It do~~r.:~ on ~~at ~he ~eader's Digest does a==~:

it. It is vital for us ~o olace ou!'selves ~n the str:~ges: ~ossible

competitive ::osit:'o:\.

'lIe have a1 rudy h;:: ar. exar::ple of ~!'Iat Kent can co with

r~ga:: to tar and :'Ii eot ine an: this is one of the :eas.:l:'lS I·.ny we

have been so eoncerne: a:out ':.his ~:oble::l. 'I eannot see any coo:

reason Y~y we shoule not re~'1e :he ~henols~ I do not thin~ a:'lyone

can su;~est a re~~on y~y it ~~uld be desirable to lea~ tne~ i:'l if

\':e ca:'l !'e::lOve the!':l, and for that rHson alorie ~-e snould taice them

OU~.

In a sit~a':.ion such as this !.~ is lmpo!'':.ant to keep lo:-east

of things as they 1'IaF=pen. ro: exa::lple, beth 30b i'lade and ::Iyself

have made arranqe~ents to have daily resul~s sent ~o us at Southi::lpt~n.

,

; .

_26-. •

. ,;-r iz+;-8ob Wade told us one mornins that laboratory tests ir.dicated :: ►at

:It,has also been quite helpful to have had frequeat 'phone contact

ts Bob during the devalo.-p-tcnt of this oro_lem.

at -3. -; There is one aaais ing thing r.•hich came out of this:

Kent were usilg T.iacetate B. This was discussed at very high

•%+; levels:n our Company and much later when we were in contact withz:

someone fr^:^ an outside Cxpany this bi: of inf=rrst;on ear.e up in

.. "" . .. . .-rthe• .ccnversation. This started s. rour whic eve.^.t_aZZy proc.eded

}^.,,, ^_1 _• as_far, as :4ontreai where, I understan3, Bob said, they went out

eV s;1 Z::i^finlsc.e riaceta:e 3 in thez. That, I think is a good

.^= bgying.eackets of Ken: cigarc:tes all ever Canada to try and

,.,...iilusc. ration. .of the seriousness with Mhic:^ our Co•.-oanies regar3edc:. . .._...

. ;.

partic:::arly,for the first tiix. In future, I think that I.ri_1

be able to take it 3 little r.tore calzly.

. . _ . ; You =e

:,Thsn:c you very mucL. Has anyone any idea on Mnether the

. _ _ ._pheno.s are,in the gas phase or in the•,:•. . .

e7s 3r_ .__.....

na-an. .. "= -

It..is awfully easy to let your emotior.s Necoc+e involved ::ncn

in the _°iring line of an. energency pro;,ra.•.-eoc this sort,

.... ^^ - a: `: ._-_- _ . .::,: -•

,; Can we :vork from the vapour

- -_= c._.t. -

particulatel

pressure of the phenols?

^:....z ^• -: Yes, we know the vapos:r pressure but we cannot ca:culate

frc=- it.

It is wrong to idealise our probiea out of existence.

The interactions in multi-component systems mean that in practice


". '-., --.:-."."'-....

." -... ' . '-. ~ .

.$::;.:.~:.. -:. . .. =-' "',.. • ..~~~ •• : •• ;:.:':._._.,:", "!". _ •• __ -:--:."';~. ':"'. :'.':". -:"_:o----------...... "'! . ..-,. -----~--.• ~-~ .. - ..

:~ , .: I -"'. ~ •• " ".'

,'.."". ~: .~~~ .~~ .... t ; : .: . I ....... j

..... : ... 26

~ : 1 '. I . ' I

-<,._ . ".'._"'. ,,' ,It has also ceen quite !'tC!lpr\.:l to 1\"'le hac! rrequent 'phone contact ..... -..... -~ ... - ......

.... i . //!~'I h .

I

~ ... ','" .. " '.. ~. . ..... ~:.,.::.~:~::· ... ;z~:.~·.:;~··~:'! 0:" :~: . .!~ ."l,'" .There is one ',latUs:'!!g "thing wh1ch '~me '01:': or th1sa

1+f;. :, ::": .. ~"~~ .:::~;. .. ~·t;'..B~'b ';'lacie t~ld I.I~ Q~. mor:l1.~; that lab=!"&'to=,! 't~sts 1'r::1cateci ..~ ... <:::~ .. :-;.: ..... :-:, -:.' ..... ;.; -. . -.' .. ' . " i

I • f

I ;'1 - I I I

I , ,: :

.•. ;: .. '(':'~: i<.en. 'fC ••. US1.:'\; •• lace.3te ~. Th1s was ::!iscusse::! at ve='! high

~~' .. " ~~~.~ .. ? ~~~;!.": ,i~~els .:'n our COr:'l?any and r.:uch later ",hen WIt ware in contact with

··':'~:;7.: .. :: .:.':, ~.~:';.': .. :;<~s·~:neone :.0:.":'1 an outs:':!e C:.:::any th!.:: !::Ii: of 1nf:::-::-..!t~on car.-.e up in

.:,. :" .. ·:·.:·~ ... -:-~~·C!··<·...;~ __ ·,~t:hC· ccr.vers.:t1on. This sta:-tec! a r.r..ou!" which eve::~~ally · ... roc:eded "'~4;' .' I .... ., ........... -- .... • ~ . • ,.

.,.. 0' ; •• ~.. ~ •• '.', " " ••

..... ~~,::-t: =-:.r -::.. .. ;ils.!ar. as "';o~t:-eal \.,neN, I I.:ru:!e:stan:, Eob said, they .,tent out

..• ..., .. ':·~.'.~·i·~:~=-;;·!.~~~~i·~9.;:;e!<ets of "en~ Cig3:-C';tes al! cver Canada tQ~ry and .... ' .~ •• " I ". : .. ' .......

.... ':.::. "'~~;I l~...;;~f1:::I_~c;~ :~ri~ce:.::e g in th~. Thil:, I think is a <;ooc! ,.', .•.• :. '.0 •. ~. ': .... ; ..... ~ ........... .J" •• : ••• ..............

,::; ! ~.::~!.l •. :~~.;u~;:::at:.on 0; :the sa:iou5:1CSS with ~hich our C~~anies rega:-:led

.. 10 ;'" ;.~'

. ';0 : .. '

fj:~~;~._P==~l.~~ ..... .;.~!" ~."":~ :6 :.!.,; . ' ..... :, , ....... . ....

. ".:' . ~ . 1t ... is. ol\~;ully easy to let your emotions l:eqo::le 1nvolvC!c ',men

... . : .: ~

- .... !:- :'~',' In ~u,;ure, I think that I ~Ii!.l

. . " .. '0" .".

:~~r:~ .. :. be able to Uke it 3 little ::lore calJ:lly •

C.J.::... .. ,. :,"!j . :.Th~n!c you very I:I\:C:-' • Has anyone any 1dea 0" ~hethe: the

.. _ ...... I=11enots au.in the gas phase c: 1n the puU:u13tc!? ,:.- -"" _ .. ..

. .... t. C. ... :::-.: :::.an .'. .. ... ~ .. ~~ -..... , ... - . .: .Ciln .... '.'IO:-lc fre. the vapo\!!' ;=:essure of the .;:Inenols? .. j' • , '

C.~.:.

. ~. J. G:-un

.... ::

: :..!~ .. -. . ... .. :,.-: _ .. l'.".:~.d·:o. ~-::,Ye5, we k:\ow the va;:ol.!%' pressl.::-e but we C!:o.r.ot calc:ulate

It is wro:\g to idealise our ;::-oble~ out of existence. 1

rhe in~eraetions in multi·coo~onent syst~ mean thilt in practice

w--==-

,

..........

if you knew the va;.our measures of all the phenols you still eoeil.in`t

predict ^ hat will happen in ec,uil-hriwa with large ntsnhers of etr.=r

.comrounds of all tyccs. . : .••-,; . ... .• .

¢.::: .. . , . _.6. . : ^ t•,... _. > .a :.. : •' - ` ^= - . '

R.3.C. At th3 time we Ke_e tal:t:ng to Tennessee -ast.zan they

la!-ried that the Ca:ntridse filter stoos z ►ienols.

^• ^. ^^••^^•.•• ^... ... .'^•. ._ .__._ . .. . • ^ .^. . ' • •. .

^ Sas=mar. have defi.._tely establis.*.ed this?.•

Tnat is r.:nat they told us, but 5ear in mind they a__ warl•ine

on a cras3 progr3cae and may be c3any:r.s 'heir ideas fa:.ly oft-n•

^ :. ... ..._ .., __ s._.^:. ; ^ . ,• -.. . '. ..

S.J:C. .__ ^• _ There seeas to be a tendency to`think of triaceEate, aiui

so on, as chemical cor.pour_=s in the ordinary sense which can be

precisely soacified. We loo: s'_:;htiy s_.prised if we get a

di.`for,nce '.xtween two acetates. Actually, if acetates cxe from

two different manutsctu.e.s they are different chemical species and

we must :ecogzise.tlat stra:;zt away. The second thing is that

there are a whole rar.-je of acetates from secnndary right up to

triacetate, each one of aic5 will vary, and one would expect th(:m

to vary with respect to their che-::cal activity with things i?:<r

phenol or anything else. The third poizt Is that having got a

ehe:aical difference to stari with the acetates are then plasticised

differently. Then, as has been.Pointed out, they are subse_.:ent!y

treated di.fe:er.;ly in other ways. So I th:nk it is quite fair

to say that no two manufacturers make the sane acetate even if they

soecify it as being the same. Courtauids' acetate was dif:erent

from Celanese acetate even if steci.`ied to the same acetyl cant,^r.t.


.:__ I .-. - I '~~. . " ~,..: ....... -~ ..

'. '

.. '

; ,

"

-"

,. ...

.. ---

. ~:"

~ ...

: i . .. (. • .... ~ j

~ ... ,

:

.L

1.

I . . -

l 1-~ .. 1 i }

1 t I. I

I

l L ..

• ':.""l" .',

' .... :. .... ; ,'"_::" .'

_.. t.::,.: - ..

--_ •... --- -------27

if yOIJ ::~!:\., t~:! va;:~u:.- !!Ieasl.:res af all the phenols yOOl st!.!l call\Jn't

predict ~~at will happen in equ!l~~~i~ with 1ar;. nl.:m=ers a: ctr.~r

'. ~ : J '~:: .• : ."! ' ... : ... .: . : ..

. ~.~ :~: :..:.~. ~.".: .... _cla!.!:h1!d th .. t tne Ca::t:::id;e fit te: st~~s ~henols •

. '", .. . -. ... : ... " . " I •• ': .H •

"

R.9.~. ;: -, ":;-. That is ~;ha: they :01:: t.:s, ::.:!

_- ,:';-,. :~. >.,. -,.: . on a crash p:oqrlr:::le and r:.ay be C:!'\an;:'r:; ;n~ir iceas h~=l y a:t.-" • ... . . ,.... .. .... .. -' ,,:,:'~ ~. : ........ ..:. :

'" .... .

':; Then Ue::IS ::~ be a te~ency to 'think of t:iaceta:e, ;1lld

so on. as c:he~ica! c~?Our::~ in the or=i~~:y sense ~~ich can be

precisely s~~c~:ie=.

'\ct:.:ally, if acetates c~e f~01n

Tn, second thing is that

there a:-! a .,;nole :-ar:;je 0: ac:e':.:ltes fror.: sec'!lndary ~ight U;) ':.0

triac!!t.)t!, each ane of .".h!.ch ~:~ll va:'/, and one ~'IO\ll::f ex;)e:t tPw:n

to vary w~t!'l resj:leet to the!.:- c:he~~:al activity with thin;s li:«'

phenol or anything elie • The thi~ point is that having ~ot a

che:ni:al difference to sta:t wi~~ the ace~ates are then plastielsed

Then, as has :een,~01nte: out. they are s~=se~~ently

So I think 1t 1s ~~i~e :air i

to say that no two canufac:~:-e:s oake the same acetate ev.n if they

s?ecify it as b~in~ the same. C~urtauld$' acetate was di;:~rent

frc::n Celanese ae::tate even if s,;ec!.Hed to the same acetyl cont',r.t.

,

.,;:-, not, how, on ea= t1 is this .:.ce? --• '=r. ,::u c-

•:^At the very ieast, the ls soft finish or JN anti-sLatic oil which

_- ?_ ;•::.-w,^ tmust be added at the spinning stage are different, so I think we

^-- - i

. ^r

- 28 -

should clear our minds on this one, anyway.Therct is no reason

to expect two acetates rhici are nominally said to be the sane to

... .,.. ..':behave the same cher..ically. '

., - Dr. Gri.`fith, Tn 1.:ade and Bob .tiade supported this ooint

and repo:ted instances of neainally si.ailar filter materials having

cdiiieren! Pron^rties. ..:: -:^•.. '-'---= ' "

C•C•=•. ._ •t^'^ b.z': .^.: ':-: I think it is agreed by everybody that

,,, _•:^s? caef.°iciency for phenols with some of these fi=ters can be greater

than that for tar. Seco^dly, the phenols do not pass the Ca^'-'ridge

filter.. Coes this nean that phenols aze in the particulate, and'if

14:. 7N. 3eid

- '' •_

_it.is due to hydrogen bonding. _'_-_:.. :......-- .

♦

:If you examine the i:i.ra-red spectrti-,i of t.iacetate thenw ! - . . . :__ ..- . .

-.uoon dyeing there is a shift in the carbonyl region suggesting that

7ialler Geo:^e -ade

r,j,;,suggests that triacetate A and

. C'..^t _ .. .. r. ... .- :]__ ...r. 3:. .

. ... ^=e..^^. . . ^.Y _. . : i

r

_..:^:. • .. .•l^ ... ' . -..=G'.,. .:.' ,., ^. .

-• ..: G.!tv

X .n, ;;•:'^; 1.- _. . Triacetate A.-- .. -Triac=tate 9^ . . . _ .

Now, if I ur.derstocd Or. George corr.ctly, Triacetate 3,. .. .._.. .---..

.niich is circular in cross-section, may Se made to dye ve: f raoidly

and very evenly and is constructed so that the outer sur face is very

absorbent. Now, v'eorge's theory is that a smoke particle hits


,.'

::"

"

.' .... , ....... .. -' ...............

Do .. "".\, ..r: :.:...:. .. ~.-.. --,--.._..--.,..,., .. ~. ________ . , .,: .. :~.:~~

" ··I.;·~II!."I. . .,..:'-,... ".

.. "

:. :

. " ' .. ~ "J .. :' ':~I ;~. !';~!~. ;.::.~

., ,.. ... '. " ... , ",":" .. - 28 '-

.' . ' .:. . . " ,At the very least. the 1% soft f1nish or i% Intl~stat1c 011 which

.. . "!:'::: .~.: • ,::;~.::;;,1~lIust be added at Ute spinning stiqe are different, so I thin.'c we

Should char our minds on :his one; anyway." Then is no reason

to .xp~ct two acetates 'which are nominally . : .. ~;.:.. .~~. ~ ....... .. ··;·.-:~··':;::;:l:~! \behaYe ·th. same cher.:ic:al!y: ~:-:'i.; ~I';: ~.!. . .. .. ..

said to b. the same to . ~. t' •

. . ' .. - ~ . .:... .. ~. ":

... ~ ' .• :: :'.: Dr. G:it::'tn, Tc:::! ~:ade and Sob \\'ad! 's::';:p'orUd this point

.•... and rl!?orted inst.lnces of n::::I:'na11 y si.~ilar filter' ::aterials havi:\;

- -.~.; .....

:' ..

"! " .' . _ ......... ~. c·:i.":,:,.· .' .'. :c.: .. ~ .. . C~?! .•. o;'!.: '("/~ :."l!':- I!~ ~:~:: 1 thi!'llc it 1s aC;:eecl by everybody that the filtration -: ..... .

. I

I I I ! \':. I I i !

I ~ . i ~. I J. .-

• .. · • ·

j 1 i I i !

. .... ." I,. "

.::~;':~" ':!-:! 3: :,ef:ic1ency for chenols I"Ilt~ sO::le of these H!ters ~an be ;:-e.:te:-

.. :' ~:~::, ,: .. ~.:,;!".~~~:~ th~t 'f~~ ~~r. Se co:'.::! ly , t~e phenols do not f:Iass the Ca:::::rl.dge

;:::~ ,~:;,:,:; ... l=': filter •. Coes this mean that ;:lhenols are in the pa;tic:ulate, an::l'if . £:. .... .'

~-j ::P':~ ~:'::~~ ,not, 1':0\1'1 on earth'is this t:ue? '::,~"'-::r. .:::l c,~ ''' ..

-: .. '~$.' :~-:' ft··,"~!-iJgi!r::,:::·.·a \'~ ~~ .. :; :;:. !;;,::

:;JL "~ 0 ·' ..

. ~~.l :.I~~~ :,,' :l"!.-:: . ~=~ ;: ':~ .' If you exa::line the i:t!ra-:ed speetl'l:! of t=-iacetat! then .-. .

• .... "":~::'.':;: " .. Now, if I lJn:!C!rstoc:! ~. Geo:~e co:r:l::tly. Triacet.:te 3,

.~~i~~ is circ:~la: in c:ross-:ection, may ~ ~de to dy~ ve~( rapidly

and very evenly an: is const~;ted so that the outer surface is very

absor:ent. Now, veor;e's theory is th3t a smoke particle hits

'. ,

c:::::.

~ CIt

,.

i. 0 '-'

.~ ~ ~ ~ N ...

-29-

• -.^.

^•:.".:

the sibra, the nhenol is absor:ed by the s:bre and then a second

smoke particle coars alozg and r=olaces the partiele.

r.^::z= •:`r phenols :::

.^•/ • a. :^ . ^:•. .•..• • . . .• . f ... •.

.r . • ... •• • .. J . .. • _ .. ._ . _. . .. . • • . .

°ersonally, being a sr =2e soul

K. D. Xilbu: n TJe have done a little work on a`C=.trid.ê f i? ter cn3 it

does suggest that semewhere in the orde: of IOa of the phenols is

.., .. •in the vapos:r phase. I Mould not like to be too sLre of this

^.:•• . ...,' ... ' • :3' ^•-- fi;ure for we qat a okenoi ;,esk r:hica wasa't very r..:ich dis=laced

from the base Iine and the base linc itself was skowir.,; sIi?:-i:

it can ouite easiiy be sho•.%-% that all the "triacetates are i..:hly

.•. soluble in phenol. In other her-s, they are cuite cx:o-tible ^ît.`.

In a s^zke saaple, one sô<c pa:ticle is aoorvxi-a:ely

ofthe ques:ion of sol::ticn a` the phenol by :ne _r:acc:a:^,

.; drift, but thcre was a oeak there.

.10 microns away .ro--% another smoke particle. Assuming a-olecu'_ar

velocity of the orjc_ of 1=./sec. this M.ans that a ohenol -o1^c:ae

__ will .ravei the distance be:ween car:icles in the or3er of IO-g secs::=

A phenol molecule could leave one =article and enter anot^c_ vr thin

..: that time if there was no time delay at the surface absorr,.i" of

II

the phenol. Therefore

are in the oarticulate

awss transfer. In any

it is theh icr.ater*al

or in the

I find it hard to cel__ve.

vdlethe: the phenols

vacoc:: from the point of of

filter we have a volir..e which consists of

the volume of gas (Vg), plus

of the filter materia,I (Yr):

the vo1u:..e of tar (VT) and the vo?t-ne

V = V9 + Vi:+ VF the caoacity of that


# '.

.. ~:.-: :.". I - . - .

l' :; .. ~'

:. .. '.:

H :;;,. ~

':a; .. '

.- . .. ' . :).:.",.

- .' ... ..:..:-......

:- ... -',:,':-:?" ~. .~ ..... ".

.. -.' ~r _

. -:., .. "0

"'-"--.-

s ••

" ~ .. t· " "' ). r

I \' .. -" I I I I l I 1 L L

L L L

- ' .. , .

.. ~ .... . '. ~ ..

..•.. ::,.. . : . .- . .. .,: .....

':,'

', ... ... . .

. :. ::-

~:::~':': . .....

~~~-~:"~":.' --------~.-

. :. ', . .. ' - 29 -.. ;.:.:,' ..:-- ...... .

the ~lbra, ~he .,he!'lol is a~lo!"=ed. ~Y the !~bre and than a $:leon.::! .. '

::.~.' .: .,';":. :.~ ~;;:. ~' Q9

. : .. g . ---:->.- ~ ......... - - •

.... -- .• '.' ... .,J ....... ". phenols

"I~" I.. : . .... - .. .

O~ . : ...... : ~ ...... ; ~:: .. '"'i' : ...... ~ : ... '

.~

., . .' .. ... .. .. ~ oJ

. _ :.': ';"':. ~) -;:. ?erson.llly, bcion; i! s:.:::::h s:ll.Il, I fin: ;,~ ha=: <;0 :el~~'1e.

. ... , ..... '-."!.. r., .:. ",:!.: ."~ ... : .... -. K. O. l<ilbu:n We have done a l!<;:le wo!"~ C!'l a Ca==!"~:;e fllte: ~~: it

~ .. '" .

~:.' -: ~.;~ ,~... does sUC;ge~t that sc:newi'lere in the o::e= of lO~' 0: the phenols is .... ,. '.

.~~; .·1.::·~,:,!":: '-'J"" 1n the va::lOl.l= phase. I would nc<; U:Ce to ':e too Sl.::e or <;~is . .. . . . . .... . .. ' . )."~~:S·:'(_ '-':-' fl f .... 1 t ' ';:' ~t. .. d' 1 . .• ~.- •• : _0'\ •• _';Ure 0= ~~ .90_.i! 1' •. ,eno. ;:e:"-."::l_.:~ "'~S!'l ... very r.:uc.. 15::: Aceo:

. , .... :. ':';:.": .~:'- frO."!'l the base line an~ t~~ :ase line ~t$el.i was showir.; s~~~~:

• - ~'":_ ;... •• ,.1

': ...

. .

.... ~ .. ....... ... drift, but there was a ~eak t~e:e •

... :-~;-' ' ... ::. ,-

. " !

;': ...

....

velocity of the o=jc= of 1 c:./sec. t~!s ~aans t~at a ~heno!. ~ol~c~le

__ will tr:vel the dLstance between p:=<;~cles in the or:er cf 10.5 sec:~=

A phenol molecule could leave one particl~ and ente: anot~c= withi:l

. • that time ii' the:! was no t!.:lle de,hy _a.~ t!\e su=hee a!::so!";:t~o:'\ of

the ?henol. Therefore it is then i~~:I:~al whet~e= the ~henols

IM'ss transfe=. In any filter Vie holve a volu:::e whieh eonsis<;s of

the volu:::e of gas (V~), ~lus t!\e volu:::e q! tar (Vr ) and the vol~e

of the filter lMtaria.,1 (VF): V = Vg + Vl';+ VF ~he eapaci~y 0: tha:

,

c::::.

-,:-^-s n^^: 'F•. ._ : . . _:^. __.•_• .

^.:aiti-• material to absorb vanour ceuends iiporithe on coefficients

^^t^,.. ..._. .e.»l.... .... .•

) and bctraen-vaoour and filter (:C_).between vapo^sr an;; tar !^

If the partition coefficient is sufficiently high'in either of t'sese„t--N

eases the filt.r ,•ill hold quite a large amount of something in the... ,•. .-: . . .

vacour phasa. One can show that if the partitioncoefficient is of

the order of 1C,COO then the filtration efficienc% of the filter

will-be of thc crdc: of 99't. For se.-:ething of the :oilfnq point

..of pher.oi this Is qc it e_ikely to _e around a-cut the ficure for1^1^^:•-n_^.a-^,_tr,'S• ` :. ^ ^- . .. ^. . ^ . . .

nC ,I]: 3 ' .. .... ti^: . ..:.._._.'! . . .

-_ _.c•!on..•a1d 'o Kl: }: z. a's^ .... d ^ „11,• en o os. c- _Rega:d:n; .ha r.ecna^sisz, _ we have a s_^

. , ... .; _. ..••.to •a':, .. . .- ^_âcet3te material covere: wit:^ a t4:in layer of tar then p.^.enol can

: :_â• : .::,.. ,^ .--easily enter the tar Iayer and t!eh it has the smoulder pe:io3 to

penetrate into the cellu:^se acetate fibre - very`muc5 r..ore slovrly

. . . .. . ,due to the lor. diffusion coefficient%--resultinq in that tar be.r.g

virtually devoid of ?he.ô'- and ready to'receive the next puf?.

. . . '^. A

^: .... ...-^ __ ^ ._ _. -. . . . . ....... ^.:-.. . .._

Ithir.k what we have • just heard is extremely . pcrta.^.t.

haven't qu-te understocd it but I'm quite sure that there is

itsor.ething to exnlain here and if we can understand it then we sâll

learn a lot more about the interchange between the vacouT _t:aso and

^ ' . - h •h 11l dq

_ • .. _• • R

Fran the exclange of partic:as t!:rou.^,h the va=our ohase one can

then obtain fairly high filtration er:icie::cies•for the chenals.

. ere vt atthe particulate phase. You yourse_f,I ga.he., fee

be qufte a strai;5tfozxr:.' ex?lanaticn when we coTe to te::„s with It.

^ -.

Yes. I was q•,ate pleased when the result came out for the

5th puff on the phenol work, which does show that the filtration

•-- - ^' •efficiency for the early part of the cigarette is higher than for

L

L

CJ

,


c.

.... ~ ...

. • oJ'

"': ....

-.

. .. . ,

-' . ' .... ~'-;. :~ ....

'" ' .. -

' .. --- .. ". -.

-. , .. -~::::--:.".

':''':'' : '-:i::-~ .. : .... ,'.

~.

.: )

• . t·

. ' . .....

.' -'. I~'·: - •.

. -.~.: .. ",-'.-;" ....• : .'

. ...;. .. ..-.

-',:-. :.,~.~ •... ~~." .. ,,:~':':"~~ .. ~.~.~ .~- --.-. -.. -. --:. ~:~ ...... .... ? 0' .. .. " ....

:'~":" .'~.: "0.1',: : ... : • .-". , ... :. .': .:f ;:: ...... .. -; ..•... ~ ........ '. ".'.' - 30 .'

• ~ ," .1 .. ' ..

,6 •. ~'.~.~., •• ···~.·i.; •. : •. ;~: ... ~.:

.. .. -_ ... -.---..•.. ~ .. ~;; 7~·~:~· .. " . .. ....

" ... ~ .. /~~ .... .... ~ .. "';."~. .. . ~

· .,:.::--;, ... .: .. ..:. :nf!i:: .,...... ...:. ~ -.~. _;~. :;'_ .. '_ .... .....' lIIilte:i~l to abso:-b wl'lo\:r 'ci~!l~nds upon "the ·~it1t!:I:'I cceH1:ients .

.' . ..... !t,., .............. . ... ; .•. ··betwoen vapc.j;~~~·t~:: .. (~} and be~~;een'v~!'Cur an4 !llter (:c;:).

, '. · ...... ': .. :'" If the p3r~~:i~n c:),,!'!i:ient is s~ff1.cie:"ltly t'li;h tin eit!"ser ~£ t~es@

e'· : _ •• .--. ,-""" ........ ' ....... ; ,,:,., ~~ ';.:} :'>-:':-.~: casc:s tne n! t~r' \'t11 t hold ~u1 te a luge 1III:Iu."'I~ of :OI:Ieth1:11] ~I\ the ;-. ~. ' .. " :'.' .. ",' ,-,.' :. .

. ':VI;=CU:- ?n~·SQ. One car. s!l;,w that 1f the ;:a::t1~ion coeHicient is o! .... .. . '

For ~~et~!l\q o! the =oil~n~ ~oint j,.

~ .. :.of pher.ol this is q\:!.~1 U:<aly to :e a:o~l'.:! a::<:u~' the Hgure fo:: • • ',,: -~. . ~ • J " ' •. _ \0."" -" ....

.. ""-:-: ... ":-~.~-. tar·.-=-:-: ..... 's r.: :,lJ:; .,!j:!:: ~::",~ ~.:; .. ' ~I': · . " ... ,,.:,,:~,.': .~' ' .. ,'. .. . .":' ,'. -.' •• e .!) .... 'l:U .~ :!\ . ...;. r: •. ~-- .";' . ... :' '., ;',:" .. ,' Reqa:-d:.n; thi! r::ec:t:l:'lis::I; !! 'Ne have a s~= .. nd o! c~lb!.oo;e

::!.:' :0 ,;-::;.! .... "! •. 4:' _ ... .;" . t ........... ' . acettl!e material c·Qv·a=~ with a t~:'n lilyer o'! ta:- ~hen !)!".enol can :':: .!:=.!~ .;::'::! .;.: .... ,. ........ :", ... - :,', . , .'" .

....... ~ C": ....... easily ~n::e= the tar "liyir ar.:! the~ it has 'th~ scoulce:- ;=~:io:l :1"-.:::' c-!":!i:;"':-" ':00'., .. ~. ' ..... ;: ,:.:.. •• J:., ...

.~ • ,. penet:a te into the cellulc::e acctat~ fi!)re ve:-Y'!I\\:c!l :::o::e slowly ....

. ..due to the low diffusion eOi!!=ici~nt '~'resultinq in that ~ar ba:~g -: .; '::" ::.1~.Y 'l~::' 'l~ : ~,~~.. .... , ..... '\.. ..:.. ~ ~ .•..

;. ". '. vU~lJally de .... oid of ,he~ol an:! ready to'receive the next

,:. :", ~ ~:' .. -.:,,:,: . : .:.. .. -. ... , ... ! tnen obt:!n fai:-ly hi;h f~l:ration o!fi~ie~cles·for the phe~ols.

!.:~~:. .. ~.,:~-::~&.t :~ !~.~;:':,,,,,: .... - .•.•. ,_ , . _. - '.: .. :::..I.oIII:-:i.E.

.. ,~

;: -:;.,c .; : r:ha~~~-'t q:J~~C! \:'nderst,Jc:! it but I'm quite S1.::-e ~hat there is ... -....

... ! :: ,,: .. )=-:~ .~.. .. ........ : -.. . soCtething to elepla In her~ a:'l::! 1 f' we' can' underst:1nc l.t then .... -e shilll

.... - ............. ~._ .. _."'\t- .... ...

..... ~ ..... :"'lea:-:! a lot :roOre about t~e i:'l~e::chanc;e' be: ..... een the va;:o~ al'\c ..... · .. ::!'!~~:..:e ~-~~"':": .. _o' • .t. • ... '.

. . 'the ;=a::t1culate phase. You yourself, l' c;a~he:t feel tha~ :here will ,

K.:.!:. .:: ... :~:.:::··.·I Yes •. I was cr.:i ~e pleased ... 'hen the resu~ ~ ca:ue out for ~he

5th i'uif on the ?henol "",ork, which does show that, the filtration ....... _ ... .. . . --- ... ... . , .

'efficiency for the early ?lrt of the ci;a:ette l.s:hi;her ~~an fer

r r r r I I I I I I I I L L L L

,

.'

c::::::::

• "^

_ .-. "^•'

When s. Georce as talkin; he did not eonfine his rema.ks

the latar ;.art. We did not have time to carry out a ouff by cuff

oxanination but

- 31 -

vsnoke

. : . .,.., ... -

va1u-+e' of smoke

F._. (c} c : ^VF

therefa_e loc v

-i,ures ra::^h.y a:-ee.

to phenol, but included all weakly acidic materials. I would like

to ask Dr. Grcen - is there anytìng unique about cellulose ece:a:e

and its properties w'_th regard to we=kly acidic materials?

-^ ^ . . ....'J. . . ... .. ....

.{.,^'•^:

-. • ^î .-.. .

I don't kncr..

.^ .. ..•...

i

(Discussion be:wecn S.J.G., ^.=•'-, ^^•• •4• and C•= on dyei^g rrco_:....

^. _of ae_tate)

C_ntle-=n: :•.^ûld li.l'e to see this it in 1a:;c le:tcrs

of yoldt At last we have reac-hcd a land.-+a.k, the end of an cra.

2 hoae that once and f r all we have finaily killed one bit of dor,-a

whic.h states that partic:aate fii:_atioh is necessarily c^cîcallv

^raclai-:-.unselective. Ifir.d it hard not to be equally doczatic in

that in a multicc-canent ..9 .zase system with a wide ran-e of

size that there must be c."eoical selection in particulate .il:ra_ion.

II.

L

:lhat it êans is that in this labo.-atcry you are vie^r_^^

the total smoke that cones along as a transit equilibrir - the

vapour phase and pa::iculate phase are t_ansit equ:librit^.. - and

eresus.ably the change - the equi'_ibrit.-p will be dif°erent 5et•.veen

particles of different size as it will be to do with di.°:erant

prersures dse to the di.`ference in curvature of the surfaces.


.• ~.: . '.' ........ :or_

"="" .... ~ •

.... 'fto .••• --';'. ,.. .. "

........ -..... "\'

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v:lI.::Ie of seok'!

.to ask 0=. G~~en - 15 the~e anyt~i~; uni~ue about cellulose

(Disc\.:ssion be:\'Ieer. S • .! .C., :l.:.F.,

o~ ac~tatll)

.... -', .. . ,. ... , . ~ . , . ~ .. --,':::-:,~, ..

't'; .',1: .R •

. '~""

~lhat it !:leans is that :'n t~is hl::J~atc~y you a:-e 'J'ie':I:'::g

v~~o\.:r ~hase and ~a~!c~late ~hase are transit e~~!lil:ri~~ - an1

particles of di!ferent s!.:e as it \'Iill be! to do wHh d1!fe~:mt

pre~s\.:res d~e ~o the difference in curVature of the surfaces.

,

_ ._.. . . .^ ^^ ^

t

- 32

^ . . , _ . .. .

S

C.G.F• .

2 an quite willing to admit the continuous interchange of materials

•fran the oarticu'_ate to other parts of the partlculate or to the vanoLr i

ohasa, and it is this dynaain situation that is, occurrir.3 as it goes

fthrough a filter. It Is a very :.a:ch more powerful view than the

rather crude one wfiic.h Dr. Green so rightly cas:igated. ^

=•'•=':•c'•=-" `-- 'Our overseas visitors, when they get back hor.e, will fir.d

a report dealing with the filtraticz of wazer'in smoke by diffs:=...

'c'•• :' and nicotine.' This is the first time we have cdme across a

filters - this has been shoun to be enhanced eoe^pared with the tar

fil:ration of a substance which was different from that of tar and

niatine - quite sig.^•ificaa:ly different. We have left the

-•exzlariation open; we have merely recorded the facts, but it se^,s

to me that this could be another case of vapour, phase-pa::icLlete

••• = phase interaction.

_.. ^ - ....; . ... .. . . . . . :

"" =- - -Kynder states there is no significant selective fil,.:___on

• of aronatic polycyclic hydrocarbons.

. ..- -s:- . . ' . . . .

- .--•• • '•' • Who told hint that?

. ._. _ . _ • •+ ..... . - ... •

That's his s:ater..ent.

..__ z.... • . . _ . . ... _- .. _. .

Chai=an, :'z open to correction, but I tho;;;:^.t sa-e

ago Wynder had studied the biolo;ical activity of filtered versus

unfiltered scwke and had suggested that the action of the filter In

reducing biological a C.ivity was only pro rata with its red::c:ion in

' total tar. This previous observation now rans cpntrary to that he

is saying now.

T.:a.'rt.

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C1thttp://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/cgd72d00/pdf

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32-....

• ' ~ :: .. :-. 'f'~ ".:- -;~.' . .:::.;",':;.; ~ : .... :" ... ~ .... . ..

. ' I ~ ~it~ willing to adcit the continuous lnterchan;e o! mate:i~ls

'fr~ the ~.rtid~~ate to other plrts of the ~ar~iculate or to the va~o~= r " ...

. ~ , , .... """ ..

........... : .... : .... ~has., and it is t~is dyna~i: situation that 15, occu~ri~; as it ;oes

th:ough a ·nlte:-. It Is a very =uen l:Iore l)ower!ul vhw thOln tne

. D.::.F. ~',- :::.!'~;.::~. :.'~ ~ . .:. 'Our ovr:rsus visttors, ",,"en they !jet baek ho::-.e, .,.-ill :ir,::!'

.... ;,' > :..:.'~~\":: .:' .. repor~ dulin3 with the filtratien of ~ate='in s:::olee oy di::a=;::-:t . '"'' . .." . t • .

. '._. . . , , .

" . "

.. 410 ••••• I .. ,.

. , , t' ' t ' ' " 1 d' ,. t ~'e"', '::.'·e 1 e# ..... the nl:~ .ne - qUl.e s~g~l.~can: y 1 •• e:en. ~ OG •

. ex~lari.ltiori open; "-e have ~~rely reccrded the racts, but it se~:::s

'::~::;, ','" ~: =phasr: lnter.lction. ::-.: .. :: ":- ~

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:;: "lit •

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C.O.E_

! .:.! ••. :.

. :. :'. ; ...

. .........

':',~:.: ':, 'Yiynder statu :!lere 15 roo s1.gnl!!eant selectiv!!

::. of aromalic polyeyclic hyd=oca=bons~' " .- "'"

. ' . : .:! ';. , .

.. ~:.!,;',; ~:,~ ... 'Who told hi::! that?';' '.~" ,,'

, .. Tha t 's h is s!a:er.:ent~ . . .....

!:l.G.::. .. - ':"~.;-::.:!~.!"' .. .,. ~;~. Mr. Cha!:::tan, I'::1 open to correc:ion, ~ut I tho-.:;ht s::::e

•. "':":.!:: 'years ago Wynder had stu:1ed the 111010;ieal ae:ivi:y,o! :Uten::! versus ,

un!11tered s~ke and had sug;ested t~at the action Ot the :ilter in

reducing ~iological act1vi:y was only ~=o rata wi:~ its :ed-.:e:ion in

. total tar. This previous oese:vat1on now ~ns c:ntrary to y~at he

is saying no\ ....

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-33-

r C.D.E.._ . ; .-^ . . ... ... ': - w:. •: .. .z.^•.

That doesn't matter. At leait, it Nould if his figures

... R. S. wade._•cs na:......

E.C.F.

were dependable but he was probably using insufficient mice for

atcuratehiological data..-.

ltr. Chairman, just before I left Montreal I had a very._

brief communication from D:. Wright -,he is Consultant for East...an.

I don't know how close he is to the situation, but essentially

he said what Dr. Kilburn said about a film of tar on a fibre of

cellulose acetate, and his very brief rera rk was "Why bother •'•"

- putting additives on to a filter? After you have taken the first

puff or so on a cigarette the fil'ter will be covered with tar and

you will have the same effect•as that of 'an additive."

,. ,... ' .a...^.. •:-r..•_ - . :. :... ,:-

Mcasn't that the arSuaent against the Tareyton filter

which has not been substantiated?

R.E.G. )► -._ . .

I.W.H. )L.C.L. )K.D.K. )

- c :. . : . . .... : . : - .

in discussion pointed out differences between cellulose acetate

and paper for phenols.

Tareyton was designed to take out volatiles and for the

first third of the cigarette was successfui.

., . • • . ... __ . : ...._ ,^. . L C.D,E. Are you satisfied that you have the data which will co-pare

t LLLLL

.J.G.

the filtration efficiency for p5enols for conventional paper and

cellulose acetate filters?

Southampton has not got the data.

a^


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• _ t •••. :, • .,:.... r t • " .=i.c.._ Thn doesn't IU tter. .A.t leiSt, it would 1f his figures

., .•. • .' _,.' . i,._

were dependable but he was probably using 1nsuffi~lent m1~e for

a1:curate ·,biological .. d.ata. - ... '" .. " .. ~ '" ...... _ '. e ...

..... .. - . :.::..:.;

.• : ........

.: . ..: ...

-; =~ :"! ••• . Mr. Chai~n, Just eefere I left Montreal I had a very._.~.

7.:: -~ ... ~ .. ~ .. ..:-..... . •

he said what Or. Kilburn said about a film of tar en a fibre of

. .cellulose acetate, and his very brief rel3rlt was "Why bo~her

putting additives on to a filter? After you have talten the first . :-.:., .•. :.,

.! . puff or so on a c1;uet~e the Hl'ter will. ee cove:-ed wi':.'" tar and

·E~C.F •.

R.B.G. ) I.W.H. ) L.C.I.. ) !C.D.K. )

. ;, -';

C.D.E •

S.J .G.

you w111 have the same effect.as that of .~n additive."

.'-. ··,t···-'·, ":'. ;;~;. ~-": ..... ' .... ' Wasn't t. ... at the ar;ucent against the Tauyton £11 ter

which has not been substantiated? . ,,, . . -.... -_ ..

.l -:.~::, .. ~

1n discussion pointed out differences between cellulose acetate

and paper for pheno!s.

.. ~.: ~ ~ : ... :. Tareyton was designed to :alt. out volOl til es and for the

~:.:.:~~~st thi:d of t."'e ~iqarette was successfl.l!. . . . .. -::: It·. !'!.\.- .. :.~: : .. ,

::~;. ,::~":-::.' "': .. --~~.-~

' .. :: :- .. ..... _--: ~ -': :'.:' .. ~ :.'.7.£ Are you satisfied t.~at you hOlve the data wnich will co=~are

. ' -........ '............... . : r.:· . ..... .

... -..

the f11t:ation efficiency for p~enols for conventional ~ape:- anc "i" -:'

cellulose acetate !11te~s1

. ~'.':'.

Southampton has not got the daU.

- ........ . ..

,

--- ^...^^-^^, . • ...

.",.v •i'^; _^4 •

s?-.: i.,:^• • • .. .,D.G.F.. . . ^

.". r - . .^^• .

;.=^! rì;' at., techniques for aieasuring phenol.

. • • ^-n•,• .

î.

satisfied

1. .,^ .U37Eyou done any work on paper?

A.B.S. ::^ _ n='a :`Yes, we have. FYe have substantiated wiat we7z i..i . . .t

have been told.

these oroc,dures give the same answer that ptoer has low sel=ctive

filtration.^7 .. .. . •,^.c . . .. . .. .

1f, ^= : r ^» . 2 : ^. Z5: _. :S . .... . . ^ ..._.. . . . • .

;;,;. _"•^,;,;'• ^;...Fiugh Anderson raised the legal question and you -Aill see. - . . . • . ' - . •

rwlere that puts us. Are you in a posiLion to state that we are legally

u•.safe using paeer filters? '^= .^: -S - :c „• -

.. . .. ^ ^.3,•LJ...:J:. dF.• 0: 9Y::1 « • VJ.{

..::.r^. i Not on the basis of prelim inary N_:k.; ' T•.^ t •.._ , ... i: . .': .5 J'a-.<<:. . .. :.- . _::•• :

H.O.A.

„ -, .;;^:able to use it like a cellulose acetate?`

-34-

19e haven't got it because we are not

I think Bob has got a bit further than he said. How

soon will it be before we kncw how to treat a oaper filter so as

-9::0^..:; .

.• . • ^

with the

to te

. ..^.i^

,;;Dr. Griffith then presented the followiag ir.fo-iation:î

Phenol level in Snoke srfJ '.o •a^,.,.ol's:l.â.:^n

raicro/q./cig. (Tar acprox. e";)

34.5 E.60 (6% triacetate)^32 . •ôv > ;^: .-_cz a ^'-Threade;_4-.o11 (6% t.iacetate) 75^

*a;T.•. ^3VGC:, 22.7 •.;=r.ai::Threaded-:oll wit's increasedto 11% triacetate 8a^

:..^:I2' •. . ;: ,.:.16.7 • T.R: with 5% polyetlylene

glycol 88%

^(TaT appr:x. 78%)

10.5_...

r 'Pa-•er - 37;;

5.6 Paper with 5A`Polyethylene Cglycol

LI.


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-- .; .'. '.,' . D.~.;.~~~:.·;.' .. -:-~-::: .';.:.:. ..~. h::an·t_~o:.~~ .'t:e_~~:e.'::"7are no~ u~isf1ed ",1th th~: .• ::.:,

.. '~::~"'S! r. r~· u;t : •. ~' "techn1ques fa= IMlSu:,in-; ::heno"i. .

.-.:·:'~~::~F::~~!:: l.~:.!·::.:.:':~-::~: ;:.":.::': ·.:;.;r::::·~.; ~~: .. ~ :-~! .• ~.' .. ~.:.',.,: ''l':l'"

...... :'.:;:: :r~·~; ... ~'.'\.'.. ..,,_ t":~:~.";""'-i ... ~ ~~~.:.;~ C.O.:. ,:., '_~~~<:".' .. ':,' . Have you done Iny work on paper?

,',.! '::.,:.: :"~"!' .............. ~... •. '," ,- . ,f' _.'

...... ~,..' ... ", . .. . R' ~··~,:-~./:·:(~;r:.i~li!.-:.."":~.l .1~Yes· '-;"-;'~have"'\Ve h~~~·~~bs"~\~·1ated y,-h.t we have ~~~ told: '" . . ' .. ::".'-: .... ' .. ,,'," .' .. - '. . .~ .. --~.,.:-... ~ .....

,.- .. ;:'~~!~~"-: =':'·~~·All't·hes~ ~:0c::!d~;~~'9ive the s~me ~ns:.ve=-~;at~~i~er hu low uhc:t1vc .' . .. t:·', ..... '.:. '. ," ... : .~l.' ... · '\.,;- '1.~i: ..... ~.: ... :.;:.!. : ••.• .:.=.,": : ".-"'~ ,: ',~' f11::-atlon. . :' • -. '. '.'. .

~. )L~~~: ·'~.:i:-\: ~s; ';,: :: ~~ ~ :';: .::.;::i' ,= ~! :-~. :'!"::.:! ';;: .1C : ';'" ',~ i. !' 'if:! ·C.:::l.:::. . '-'i:i,~::'~ '.(.;,;" ..... 'A'~ ~"nugh A.,de:-s on :-aised the legal ~estion an:! you ""i 11 see

. . c ... 4o " ...... ~ •••• '.

;~':..:~.~~ :1,;)i~ w!'\ue 'th,at puts us. A'::e you 1n • po~1.i1.o:l to sta~e that we are le~a!!y •• ' •• • '!'~. .. ' • • ~I: . ~".

:.' • 1. £'l? ·"~--""'.",·":::1! • .: .:::1', ':.:.: .::..r~., b,.sare us n9 ;la;:er l. !ers ~"'-::,.:: •. , " ~

i . ,,:/ ~, : ' '. . ... ,.' ..' , .. ',: . ' . "

"':' .:.~.VI.

,~·.!:.t.l;::"';:"';' i:E.'·JJ:!~dj.~~ .=:.]~"~." ."·':!c:~··\; ~" •. ::i !~ .• .. "1::( , . . .:

.~,:, 'J ,..... ' .' - Not on the basis of Frel!.::\ina:-y w:rk. ... .•..

I think Sob has got a b1t ~u::he: :han he said. How

loon will it be 1::efore we know hO'o'f to treat iI p;J?er filter so as

mice/ g./ clg •

16.7

:.60 (6% t:-1.ace~ate) 'J'~,! Jiar'.! ~;:-:.~jlO~T·h;~ad~~-:::Ill (~% ~=iac:!';ate)

-::;:~ '::r:!lt:lTh:-ea:lec-:oll' with 1nc::eased . to ll% t=1ac:etilte

':':::9"; III .'.:' .. ~"~ .. ~~ ... f: p .•.••

T.R. wi.n ~% ~olye_hylene

. - ' _ J._

glycQl

E.2 (r I:'. l;::;::r:x. 7S%) ~:: ........ -

Pa;:er

?a?er w~th 5%'polyethylene glyc:ol

------ •... ----.--

:0 :~ . - ... -.. ~ .......... , - , -_ . ..".-

, ,._-,1,

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n: :9urley gives less p?.enols than flue-cured to5acco. This

I J. G. Bur.;an

Bcttcm 68

It's close to 11 o'clocz and I have been warned to ,':na'_ise

here. If anyone wants to aake an i=zorta::t cotri:.•u;ion no:v ? s _ha __-_

to do it.

There is one :aint, Sir Cha:les, w'%ic:: is nc. In the ccr•:ext

of ohenols but is in :a context of your su^,gesticn that we s=o_ _' ry

to forecast further oanicr of this nature - there is a c:ea: deal of

worfc going on in Ge:.-any on nitrosari::es - I don't know wi:et^e_ you are

faziliar with this - these are cawoounds :-lich are said by ^:uci;vey

to be several hundred ti^es more ootent as carcino,:r.s than t::in?s

like benzpyrene; he's gczting tt.:aLr yields of 1C:.; and he has the

feeling that there may be some of these cc-pounds --esent in ,.ocacco

smoke: The question is, should we take this up before the

breaks as the phcnols have broken?

l

, ,^_•, also depends uaon position of leaf.

Fhcnols ir.c:ease or go up the pla::t.-':

@url •v il -^-•-^d

:er . _ _ :^ _:..woo . , • .- 82 .233

Alizdle 87 140-1'50

Thank you very much for raisin; this poin:. In the ._-st

place you will give tha:Sht and then cr..•a bac'.c to c:s. The point

you have raised is a very va11d one - with this in.°cr-atian of a•rery

dependable workman, 14r. Druckvey - we cannot afford not to take

positive steps now. I would agree and note it down that in the

first instance you will :tudy the possib_lities of tl:e aeasurer..ar.t_

N 4r.---Go


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- 35 - ••

\'='.' also de~ends u",on· posl,Uon of luf • .... :: - t· .....

R'lenols inc!"lUse 0:- go \:j) the ?l.l:-'-:'.~··:: .,.

.. ~ .. 1 .,-•.•••• : Q. i> . • IJ~'" :.-:, ':::".!-' -' ::~- .. '" ~ .e2

87

~8

. .

.• ':, Mi:iele

.. Bc':':C'::I

It's c:!oSo:! to 11 o'c:!oc:lc and I have!:een ".-a:-ned :0 f:'::a~~se

to do 1t.

or phenols :ut is in !:,~ context or yol:.-: s1.!;c;es!!.:::-. !nol! we 5:-'0::2= ':~I

to fo-:ec~st (u:thcr ~.lnics of this nol!t:.:e - t~e-:e is a q:ca! c~~l 0: wor~ goin,; on in Ge::::any en ni t-:osal:li~es - I ~cn' t l(:'\o-.v whcthe: '!':IU a r~

feeling tholt there may be some of tr.ese c::~?o~n=s ?:esent in tocac:c:o

smo\ce. The question is, should we takt! this up befa:e the o:':I=:e~

braa~s as the phenols have =:-oken7

place you will give t~~t:.C;ht and then co~e back to t:.s. Tne PO!:,\t ~

you have :-aised is a ve::y valid one - with t~is in=::::::ation or a ·.;e-::y

dependa~le wor~man. ~. O~ekvey - we cannot ~ffo:-d not to ta~e

positive ste?s now. I would ag:ee and note it do~~ that in t~~

fi:st lnsta~ee you will :tudy the possib~ltti~$ o! t~e ~ea$u:~~2r.~~

- ..

,

-36-

. and then rac erast arrange between us somet+iiere on this side - in..^..

the U.K. to expIore the subject. •I think this is a very ir..oo.tant

decision that it is done. ,., ,_ •

••.:•- ' : ^ : i:.

This cozcludes the formal part of the Conference.

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. the U.K. - :0 eX~!Qre the subject. ·r tnink this 1s a very lmoo:tant

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· QESE;,P,C^. SOUTHAMPTON, 1962._ THE IMP0e2V:47- :? =; lCLS To THE HEALTH CV'cSTION AND THEIR...

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Transcript of · QESE;,P,C^. SOUTHAMPTON, 1962._ THE IMP0e2V:47- :? =; lCLS To THE HEALTH CV'cSTION AND THEIR...