Contradictions 3Muslim Christian Dialogue – H M Baagil

Contradiction

• “One cannot say of something that it is and that it is not in the same respect and at the same time.”– Aristotle

• A thing cannot be both A and non-A at the same time and in the same relationship.

Some ‘Contradictions’• 2 Samuel 8 v 4

– 4 David took from him one thousand chariots, seven hundred[a] horsemen, and twenty thousand foot soldiers. Also David hamstrung all the chariot horses, except that he spared enough of them for one hundred chariots.

• 1 Chronicles 18 v 4– 4 David took from him one thousand chariots,

seven thousand[b] horsemen, and twenty thousand foot soldiers. Also David hamstrung all the chariot horses, except that he spared enough of them for one hundred chariots.

Solutions

• Copyist error

Solutions• Matthew Henry

– - "The horsemen are here said to be 700, but 1 Chr. 18:4 they are said to be 7000. If they divided their horses by ten in a company, as it is probable they did, the captains and companies were 700, but the horsemen were 7000."

• Compare 2 Samuel 10:18 and 1 Chron. 19:18; ten men per chariot. – 2 Samuel 10:18 says "the Syrians fled before

Israel; and David slew the MEN OF 700 chariots of the Syrians, and forty thousand horsemen." Then in I Chronicles 19:18 we read: "But the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew of the Syrians 7000 men WHICH FOUGHT IN chariots, and forty thousand footmen."

Solutions• In II Samuel 8:3 it says David smote

Hadadezer as he went TO RECOVER his border at the river Euphrates, while in I Chronicles 18:3 it says David smote Hadarezer as he went TO STABLISH his dominion by the river Euphrates.

• So, possibly Hadarezar initially went to stabilize his control over the Euphrates and David took his troops of 700 horsemen. Then Hadarezar sent another 6300 to recover his previous dominion and then these too were taken by David, thus making a total of 7,000.

Solutions

• ...some footmen were also horsemen; they could either fight on horse or on foot since they were specifically trained for both methods of combat. We see this double role in another passage. In 2 Samuel 10:18 we are told of 40,000 HORSEMEN of the Syrian army who were slain by king David and his men; but in 1 Chronicles 19:18 this same number is listed as 40,000 FOOTMEN. These particular soldiers could fight either on foot or on horseback.

Solutions• Each writer is considering the men in

question in a different way. The additional 6300 men were trained as both horsemen and foot soldiers. As "horsemen" reserves they could be included with the 700 and so would be combined as a total of 7000, but as foot soldiers they would be counted among the 20,000.

• So how many "horsemen" were slain? 700 - but also an additional 6,300 who were trained both as horsemen and footmen. The two different writers are giving two different views of the same events.

How many were there actually?

• Literal interpretation– Interpreting literature as literature– Was this supposed to be an exact count?

• There probably were not exactly 700 or 7000

• How is the underlying message altered?– In either case David won a great victory

• Impact on the gospel?• Does it matter?

– Yes – we are dealing with God’s Word• Is it easily sorted

– apparently not

Inerrancy and Infallibility

• Inerrant – No errors

• Infallible– Incapable of error

Inerrancy of Scripture

• The Christian position is not that:– every translation of the Bible is accurate,– we know exactly what every verse of the

Bible originally said • We do not have absolute original

manuscripts of scripture– We have early copies, and there are some

differences between them– We can be pretty sure what the original said

in the vast majority of cases– We can easily identify the problems

How old?

• 2 Chron 22 v 2 Ahaziah was forty-two[a] years old when he became king, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother’s name was Athaliah the granddaughter of Omri.

• 2 Kings 8 v 26 "Ahaziah was twenty-two years old when he became king, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother’s name was Athaliah the granddaughter of Omri king of Israel,"

How old?

• 2 Kings 8 v 16 Now in the fifth year of Joram the son of Ahab, king of Israel, Jehoshaphat having been king of Judah, Jehoram the son of Jehoshaphat began to reign as king of Judah. 17 He was thirty-two years old when he became king, and he reigned eight years in Jerusalem.

• 32 +8 = 40– Therefore his son could not be 42 when he

began to reign – clearly a copyist error

How could this be...?

• The system of number notation used by the Jews at the time of Ezra consisted of horizontal hooks that represented decades. If one or both of the hooks were smudged or flaked off of a papyri, then the dates would be off by ten years or a factor of ten.

Translation v Interpretation

• Translation: to turn into one's own or another language

• Interpretation: the act or result of explaining or interpreting something : the way something is explained or understood

Differences caused by:

• Scribes writing from dictation (similar sounding words)

• Difficult conditions (light and weather)• Trying to be more ‘exact’ than the

original• Language variation• Speed of production

– NT more affected than OT

Significance of differences

• 85% of scripture = no errors• Of remaining 15%, about 95% of errors are

easy to spot and correct (copyist errors, over enthusiastic scribes).

• Remaining small amount need scholarly investigation to resolve, and these should be indicated in good translations of the Bible to tell you that there may be a problem

• Easy solution - compare translations, and if in doubt seek further understanding of the issue

What do the differences prove?

• Comparisons between variants help to identify the correct rendition

• Prove no wholesale destruction and re-writing of scripture (manipulated by leaders of the church)

• Modern translations point out the discrepancies

• Compare with Qur’an - burning of copies by Caliph Uthman

Who Incited?

• 2 Samuel 24 v 1 Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.”

• 1 Chronicles 21 v 1 Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.

Compare Scripture with Scripture

• To understand this you need to understand the doctrine of the sovereignty of God and the limits he places on the freedoms he gives Satan– i.e. Knowledge of the book of Job

Major Difference

• 2 Samuel 24 v 24 But the king replied to Araunah, “No, I insist on paying you for it. I will not sacrifice to the LORD my God burnt offerings that cost me nothing.” So David bought the threshing floor and the oxen and paid fifty shekels[e] of silver for them.

• 1 Chron 21 v 25 So David gave Ornan six hundred shekels of gold by weight for the place.

Intentional change

• Chronicles was written 600 years after Samuel – value recorded as a present day value – i.e. We would say £1 000 000

• The change in measure (silver to gold was probably intentional to show a different measure was being used.

• Inflation exists in the Bible – see the difference in price from time of Joseph to time of Jesus

Snails do not melt

• PSA 58:8 Let them be like a snail which melts away as it goes,

The incredible melting snail• Hebrew word = temec, (the only place where it

appears in the Bible). • Strong's says that the main meaning here is

liquefaction {changing a solid into a liquid), with a root in a word referring to. dissolution {the process of going into solution}. – Slugs and snails leave a trail behind as they move -- this

is not something that is hard to observe or unknown. – this liquid comes from their own bodies – in a hot, desert climate like Palestine's, a snail that

doesn't find a source of moisture to replenish itself is going to eventually shrivel away

• For this objection to work, it would have to be assumed that temec means "dissolve" in the sense that snow, for example, melts -- but there is no point of comparison, and no reason why this word cannot refer to the dehydration process we describe.

Literal Translation

• According to the literary style• Psalms is poetry• In poetry you can say:

– I wandered lonely as a cloudThat floats on high o'er vales and hills,When all at once I saw a crowd,A host of golden daffodils;Beside the lake, beneath the trees,Fluttering and dancing in the breeze.• Wordsworth

Descriptive Language

• The weather man uses terms such as ‘Sunrise’– Hasn’t he heard of Galileo?

The shape of the earth• ISA 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the

earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in:

• MAT 4:8 8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. – Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot

see the entire exterior surface from anyplace. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.

Hyperbole• Hyperbole {a deliberate exaggeration or overstatement} –

‘All’• In Deuteronomy 34:1-3, Moses was able to see from

mount Nebo "...all the land of Gilead, unto Dan, and all Naphtali, and the land of Ephraim, and Manasseh, and all the land of Judah, unto the utmost sea, and the south, and the plain of the valley of Jericho, the city of palm trees, unto Zoar." It would be possible to see all the kingdoms in the land of Canaan from any high mountain in the region.

• The land was divided into 'kingdoms', Judea being divided into 3 kingdoms, the sons of Herod presiding as kings in them.

• So far as Satan showing the "...kingdoms of the world...", it is understood that the word "world" can be used on a limited scale as is evident by the census decreed by Caesar Augustus in Luke 2:1.

The whole world from a mountain?

• Not all the kingdoms of the world are literally visible from a mountain in Judah. It is possible however to point out the locality of the kingdoms of the world (i.e. Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, etc.), and with choice words of description to convey the glories of these kingdoms to Jesus' imagination.

• We are not dealing with mere men. Satan is capable is not limited to the realm of the physical.

• It is plausible that Satan presented a panorama view of the kingdoms of the world before the Lord.

Was John the Baptist Elijah?

• Matt 11 v 14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come.

• John 1 v 19 Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?” 20 He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.” 21 And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.”

Interpretation

• The meaning changes• The Jews were awaiting a ‘re-incarnated’

Elijah – Elijah did not die– John the Baptist was not that

• He was the ‘Elijah’ spoken of in prophecy – Malachi 4 v 5 - Behold, I will send you jElijah

the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

Jesus' last words• Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour

Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."

• Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

• John19:30: When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

No use of an exclusive

• Jesus could easily have said all three things – no-where does it say ‘he only said’

• Remember the context of the occasion• Eyewitness reports

Seen God– (Gen. 17:1) – “Now when Abram was ninety-

nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty ; Walk before Me, and be blameless;

– (Gen. 18:1) Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day.”

– (Exodus 6:2-3) – “God spoke further to Moses and said to him, "I am the LORD; and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.”

Seen God– (Exodus 24:9-11) – “Then Moses went up with

Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. 11Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank.”

– (Acts 7:2), "And he [Stephen] said, 'Hear me, brethren and fathers! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran...'"

Not Seen God

– (Exodus 33:20) – “But He [God] said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live !"

– (John 1:18) – “No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”

– (John 5:37) – “"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.”

Not Seen God

– (John 6:46) - "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.”

– (1 Tim. 6:15-16) – “He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honour and eternal dominion! Amen.”

John 14 v 7• 7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My

Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.” 8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

Contradictions 3Muslim Christian Dialogue – H M Baagil