First Oral History Interview

with Tim Flanagan

7 October 2006 in Lindsay Flanagan�s apartment

Silver Spring, Maryland

by Lindsay Flanagan, Interviewer

for the Muskingum College Library Archives

[BEGIN TAPE 1, SIDE 1]

L. FLANAGAN: This is the October 7th [2006] interview of Tim Flanagan by Lindsay

Flanagan. It is taking place in Lindsay Flanagan�s apartment. This

interview will be about the 1972 John Glenn High School football Little Muskies�

football season.

Ok, Tim, I�m going to start by asking you just a couple of general questions, just

to kind of ease into the interview process. How old were you when the football season

started?

T. FLANAGAN: When the football season started I was actually, I would have been

17�well let me think about that for a minute I turned 17 during the

football season because I graduated from high school when I was 17. So I would have

been 16 at the beginning of the season.

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L. FLANAGAN: You were a senior that year?

T. FLANAGAN: Yes.

L. FLANAGAN: How big was John Glenn [High School]?

T. FLANAGAN: John Glenn was a fairly small high school for our league. It was a

small town rural high school. My graduating class was about 140

students.

L. FLANAGAN: Can you tell me a little bit about the town [New Concord, Ohio]?

T. FLANAGAN: Sure. New Concord is the boyhood home of John Glenn, the first

astronaut in orbit from the United States. He was a long time senator

from the state of Ohio. Small town. Muskingum College calls New Concord home.

Muskingum was founded in the�boy, I think the mid to late 1800s. The town is about

3000 people, I suppose. That�s probably when Muskingum College is in session. So it�s

a small town on old US 40, which is the old national road. Just your typical Midwestern

small town.

L. FLANAGAN: Okay. So if this was just your �typical Midwestern small town,� how

big were high school sports in the area? Since this interview is about

football�

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T. FLANAGAN: High school sports, and in New Concord the college sports teams

also�. So much of the social�fabric of the area was centered around

Muskingum College and John Glenn High School. Much of the community, were - It

was a farming community. The town supported a couple of restaurants, a grocery store, a

hardware store, a little pharmacy, not a lot more, the churches. It was a small bedroom

community. Professors at the college lived there, so, small, intimate.

L. FLANAGAN: Was football the most anticipated high school sport?

T. FLANAGAN: I think it probably was. In Ohio, and I think the entire Midwest,

football is a really big deal in the area of Pennsylvania, Ohio, West

Virginia. Basketball is also a big sport, but I think football really�really was the big

winner for our part of the country.

L. FLANAGAN: What position did you play on the Little Muskies?

T. FLANAGAN: I was the quarterback.

L. FLANAGAN: Was that your only position?

T. FLANAGAN: I played a little bit of defensive back, but my senior year I exclusively

played quarterback. I think they were concerned about injury and stuff

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like that, so I didn�t get to play any defense my senior year.

L. FLANAGAN: Did many of your teammates just play one position?

T. FLANAGAN: I think there were a handful of guys that went both ways. Some of

the best athletes on the team played both ways quite a lot: Pymm West,

Ned Stats, Jay Addy, John Wood. There were a number of guys that went both ways.

L. FLANAGAN: When did your summer practices start?

T. FLANAGAN: You know, there�s a state regulation - there is a date each late summer

where summer practice could begin. I can�t remember the exact date,

but we would begin our famous three-a-days sometime in August. I remember [as] part

of that, I would start my summer conditioning because three-a-days would really take it

out of you.

L. FLANAGAN: Can you walk me through a three-a-day?

T. FLANAGAN: Sure. Three-a-days began very early in the morning. Gee whiz, I

think we had to be to the school before 7:00 [AM] because I think we

were supposed to be on the field by 7:00 or 7:30 - I can�t remember. But I do remember

that it was very early. It was usually foggy, some mornings it was so foggy on the way

out from the locker room to the field you couldn�t really even see the field because the

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fog would be all over the place. Also, we would start with calisthenics and stretching.

For the three-a-days, we would start with about a 3 mile run. Our school was [on a] kind

of hill, so we would go down the hill, down through the valley, and back up the hill. Do

a couple of laps to get it all done. Then we would begin - depending on how deep into

the three-a-days we were - we would do some practices with offense, defense, putting

plays in. Usually those morning practices were in full pads. We�d get about an hour and

half, two hour break and we�d do a practice right before lunch time. That was usually

without pads. It�d be light to really walk through a lot of plays. Then we�d have another

break.

During those breaks, my best buddies, some of my teammates and I, would go out

to the parking lot and we�d get our cars parked close enough together that would could

rig blankets between the doors and make ourselves a tent. We�d lie between the cars on

the ground, on other blankets, just to try to stay as cool as we could because it was pretty

hot in August in Ohio. Get ready for the afternoon practice, and depending on how hot it

was, sometimes we�d go out just in shoulder pads and helmets, and sometimes we�d be in

full pads. But it was another pretty heavy practice, so three-a-days were�. You couldn�t

have a job anymore during the summer, summer jobs had to end because football became

the number one thing.

L. FLANAGAN: Did many of the players have summer jobs?

T. FLANAGAN: Yes. I think a lot of the guys had - would have some kind of summer

job. The community understood that if you hired a football player,

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they weren�t going to work all the way till school started, because [of] summer practice.

It seemed like they began 3 or 4 weeks before school started.

L. FLANAGAN: You say the community understood, so there was an understanding, a

sort of expectation about how important football was to New Concord?

T. FLANAGAN: Oh, I think you could say that. When I say it was understood, the

guys who were - would have check out jobs at Shegog�s IGA� Tim

Shegog was a year ahead of me. His family knew what football was all about. So, that

was the way it was. Same way for the kids who - sometimes they didn�t have [a] real

summer job because they worked on the [family] farm. I�m sure that was, in some ways

that was a hardship for the family business. The strong, young kid was not contributing

as much.

L. FLANAGAN: You mentioned practicing on the school field; I was under the

impression that your games were played on the Muskingum College

field. Where were you practicing?

T. FLANAGAN: We had, at the high school, there were several practice fields.

Actually on the school grounds. The main practice field was also the

field [on which] the JV [Junior Varsity] would play their games. I think it also doubled

as the soccer field during the school year; so that was right beside the high school. We

had a locker room over there. For our games we would actually dress - you would get

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partially dressed at the high school locker room, take a bus down to the college, go into

the locker room, we�d have our final meetings and so forth and then go down to the field.

We�d play the games there; at half time we go back to the college locker room, have the

halftime meeting; go back to the field. After the game, back to the locker room. But the

locker room at the college isn�t where you changed and showered. You�d go there, have

just a little debrief sometimes, and then get on the bus back to the high school. So, the

college was great because it was a big stadium for - especially for small town high school

kids - and it was a big deal. We�d fill the stadium.

L. FLANAGAN: Really, do you have any idea how many people it takes to fill the

stadium?

T. FLANAGAN: I think in the yearbook there�s probably a picture or two that would

show how big the stadium is. I�m guessing, well when the stadium

was full, probably�I don�t know, 4 or 5 thousand people.

L. FLANAGAN: Wow, quite a few.

T. FLANAGAN: Yes, I mean that�s bigger than the population of the town.

L. FLANAGAN: You know, it is actually in the 2000 [United States] Census. New

Concord had a population of 2,600 people.

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T. FLANAGAN: Wow, so I was a little high. (Laughs)

L. FLANAGAN: Well, you know�fish always get bigger�

T. FLANAGAN: Yes.

L. FLANAGAN: �the walk to school gets longer. Can you tell me, did you practice

with, did Varsity practice with the JV [Junior Varsity] squad?

T. FLANAGAN: Yes. What would happen is, there were - John Glenn [High School]

was a small school - the varsity was made up of guys that were

sophomores, juniors and seniors. JV squad, I think it was called the reserve team

actually, would be the guys - It was defined as - If you played reserve that week, you

could only play a certain amount of minutes, I think, or a certain - you could only play in

2 quarters or something. I can�t remember exactly the rule, to be eligible to play in the

reserve game�but we would always practice together. I mean there were, we�d have to

look at one of the pictures of the team, I bet, I�m sure we had fewer than 40 guys on the

team.

L. FLANAGAN: Really?

T. FLANAGAN: Yes.

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L. FLANAGAN: You said that John Glenn [High School] was a smaller school than

some of the others in the Muskingum Valley League?

T. FLANAGAN: Yes, the designation back then was, Single A, Double A, Triple

A�schools. John Glenn [High School] was right at the dividing line

of a Single A and a Double A team. A lot of this had to do with how many students were

at the high school, but I think in the Muskingum Valley League of all the teams

probably� Crooksville was probably a smaller school than we were�. But I don�t

know that, I can�t think of any of the other schools that were smaller than us, so we were

always kind of underdogs in that regard.

L. FLANAGAN: Did you have any pre-season scrimmages against other schools or

inter-squad?

T. FLANAGAN: Yes, we did. Pre-season, there would always be two or three pre-

season games where you would actually - I mean you�d get tired of

practicing against yourself all the time. And especially for us, because we had so many

guys go both ways, you couldn�t really have a first team offense against first team

defense because you had a handful of guys that were on both. So that would make it a

little difficult to really get good scrimmages in. And besides, you kind of hated to keep

beating up on your buddies so having a couple of scrimmages was always a good thing.

L. FLANAGAN: From these scrimmages, did you see any glimpses of greatness for the

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season to come?

T. FLANAGAN: We were, we had pretty high hopes. The preceding 2 years we had

winning records both years. My sophomore year I thought we had a

really good team. I think the record that year might have been 7 and 3 [7 wins, 3 losses].

We had several really good athletes who graduated that year. Didn�t win the MVL. I

think that team probably didn�t quite live up to the expectations. The next year I don�t

think the expectations were [very] high. But again, I think we had a winning record. I

think we were 6 and 4, or 6, 3, and 1 [6 wins, 3 losses, 1 tie]. And again we lost a

number of seniors. The good news was a couple of guys, a couple good friends of mine,

Brad Williams, Pymm West, Ned Stats, John Wood, all those guys I know lettered as

juniors and were key players their junior year. So, we had high hopes especially for the

defense. Pymm [West] and Ned [Stat] and John [Wood] were really good defensive

players. So really, the key to the season was, could we put together an offense that would

play up to the standards of the defense?

L. FLANAGAN: You, did you play your junior year?

T. FLANAGAN: I played a little, I didn�t play a lot. There was a guy who was a senior

who was ahead of me, Jim Wolf? who was quarterback that year, so I

played sparingly at QB [quarterback]. I guess at times it was a little frustrating, because I

thought I was equally as good, but you had to think that to be able to compete.

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L. FLANAGAN: Can you tell me a little bit about your coaches? I know that there was

a head coach and then 3 assistants.

T. FLANAGAN: That�s right. The head coach my senior year was something else that

kind of handicapped us. There was a long time head coach, Andy

Duda, that was the coach my sophomore and junior year. He had been there for several

years and everybody really held him in high regard. He left between my junior and

senior year. Bob Drobny became the head coach and he was kind of unknown to

everybody. He was putting in a new offense. The offense before him was really a wide

open (crunch time) offense that was kind of a run and gun. So, what I mean by that is

there were 2 split ends and 2 flankers, usually just, sometimes just 1 running back and the

quarterback. About the only thing Andy didn�t have in the offense was � It was before

the shotgun � but it was, it put a lot of pressure on the quarterback because it was a lot of

run and shoot. Spread out plays where the quarterback had to be pretty athletic. It was a

really fun offense to run. Well Bob Drobny came in and scrapped that offense. We were

all disappointed because that was such a fun offense to run and we had a bit more

traditional kind of offense. We all had to, I mean the entire team had to learn an entire

new set of plays, new playbook. It was a big learning curve that year.

L. FLANAGAN: And I guess eventually successful?

T. FLANAGAN: And eventually successful. So when you ask[ed] the, �Did you see

any glimpse of greatness,� I think back on it, during the scrimmages

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we were, we were still struggling with timing and new plays and new assignments. So,

the scrimmages were really helpful in putting the offense in.

L. FLANAGAN: How did Coach Drobny�s offense differ from Coach Duda�s?

T. FLANAGAN: Well, as I was saying, a much more conservative offense. A lot of the

plays, it was, I mean it was more a running offense than a passing

offense. We had a fullback, another senior named Bill Wilson. [He was] a powerful guy,

so there were a lot of plays designed for him to run in between the tackles. Dave

Fitzgerald was sort of a, he wasn�t called an H-back [half-back] but he was [a half-back].

We�d put him in different places, sometimes he�d be a tailback, sometimes a flanker.

Dave [Fitzgerald] was a junior. Brad [Williams] was a senior, he was the starting

tailback. We�d run, usually, we�d run him to the outside. Pass plays, at the beginning of

the season, were pretty standard pass plays, it was, down and outs, plants?, post patterns,

and it was, he, Drobny was just not a wide open kind of coach. So, we had to go along

slowly at first.

L. FLANAGAN: So there was a bit of an adjustment, getting, with you as the

quarterback sounds like you would have preferred a more throwing-

heavy offense, (T. Flanagan laughs) passing heavy offense�

T. FLANAGAN: You know I think most QBs [quarterbacks] would prefer that. And I

probably would have too, but we were still, there was [a] learning

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curve there. We had to learn to trust him, he had to learn to trust us. I was actually

injured the first several games of the season. I got injured [in] the final scrimmage of the

year, [which] was in Newcomerstown. I took a blow to the head and had a concussion,

and then I couldn�t play for several weeks early in the season. So that even slowed the

adjustment period down more.

L. FLANAGAN: Can you tell me a little bit about the assistant coaches? Dan Burch,

Bob Geiger, Rick Sherman?

T. FLANAGAN: Be happy to. Actually it was Don Burch. Don was also my baseball

coach for a couple years while I was at John Glenn. I think � I don�t

remember if Don was my coach my senior year or if he was my coach my early years, but

he did coach baseball. He was, he worked a lot with the backfield so I guess I knew him

pretty well. Bob Geiger - and Don was a guidance counselor at the high school. Bob

Geiger - I liked Don a lot, he was a really friendly guy. Bob [Geiger] was he was a

teacher or a guidance counselor I think also at the high school. Again [a] very nice guy.

Worked a lot with the line. And Rick Sherman, who later, he became sort of famous, in

quotes, for coaching girls athletics at John Glenn. He was a big softball coach. Rick

worked with defensive backs and the receivers I think primarily.

L. FLANAGAN: How did they [the assistants] take to the new head coach?

T. FLANAGAN: It would be really interesting to talk to them about that. My

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observation at the time is that, you know, the coaches were the

coaches, they were together on things. You�d never have picked up any [of] them

[having] cross words with each other or anything. But now that [it�s] thirty some years

later, looking back it would be interesting to ask those kinds of questions. Because they

also, I think probably all of them, at least some of them had worked for Andy Duda. So,

there�s always adjustments.

L. FLANAGAN: Was there any sort of resentment that one of the three of them hadn�t

been promoted?

T. FLANAGAN: I don�t know. I�m trying to remember. I think I remember being, all

of us upset that Duda left because we liked him so much. I can�t, off

the top of my head, remember if we were hoping that one of the assistants would be

promoted. I do remember some other assistants who weren�t there much senior year

�.that were there when Andy Duda was there. Phil Allen, a guy named Bob Kane, and I

think, Phil Allen went on to become he was a principle at the middle school, I think.

There�s a, there was one other guy, so maybe a lot of the assistants left and these were

fairly new assistants. Because it�s 34 years is a long time ago.

L. FLANAGAN: I actually have one more question about Coach Drobny. I have a copy

of the senior class� Senior Wills from 1973�

T. FLANAGAN: Uh-oh.

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L. FLANAGAN: �and I quote here from the Senior Wills: �I, Steve Davis, will to Bob

Drobny a little bit of intelligence, meaning he is a complete waste.�

Did you know Steve Davis?

T. FLANAGAN: Yes, he was senior. He played�he was an offensive lineman. I

don�t know that he started all the time. I think he was probably on

defense, a linebacker, maybe a defensive end. Tough guy, good kid, but I think that

speaks to a lot of the - I don�t think any of us were in love with Coach Drobny. It,

because again, we liked Andy Duda so much. And I, if we get in to the season, there

were some decisions that Coach Drobny made that most of us look back on and think, �If

he had just decided something else we wouldn�t have been co-champions, we would have

been champions.�

L. FLANAGAN: So it sounds like there might still be a little bit of, not quite

resentment, but questioning there�

T. FLANAGAN: Oh yes, absolutely. There would be, there were some times in

games�one decision in particular that, that still bothers me even

though it was thirty-four years ago and it was high school.

L. FLANAGAN: To quote another of the Senior Wills, �I, Val Ferguson, will to Mr.

Drobny the hope to get his head fixed upside down so he will have a

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smile and the ability to try to a pinch of Mr. Duda�s job.� Who was Val Ferguson?

T. FLANAGAN: Val Ferguson was a senior girl; she was not a cheerleader or anything.

She was a fan of the football team (chuckles). Mr. Drobny was also a

teacher and he had � his reputation was, he was kind of a tough guy, and he didn�t smile a

whole lot. He was kind of hardcore, going to get it done this way and if you don�t like it

this way, then well you don�t have to like it, you get used to, it it�s not going to be any

other way. It was kind of his way or the high way.

L. FLANAGAN: Well, that seems to be the case with high school football coaches. (T.

Flanagan laughs.) One more from the Senior Wills. And this is from

yours. �I, Tim Flanagan,� and you have a couple other comments in here, but I�m going

to skip to the last one, �will to Jay Addy a wet rag to wipe the brown off his nose.�

T. FLANAGAN: (Laughs) That�s just a joke. That just was nothing but a joke. We

always kidded, Jay [Addy] was such a kind-hearted guy, and would do, would just do

anything for any teammate. Whatever the coaches said, [he] would never talk back,

never push back, he would just go about his business. We would playfully call him a

brown nose for sucking up to the coaches - which he didn�t do any more than anybody

else - but it just seemed like an appropriate thing to say to Jay [Addy].

L. FLANAGAN: Well, I assume that his hand-written comment at the bottom of the

Senior Wills, �I, Jay Addy, will to Timmy Flanagan a wet rag to wipe

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the blank from D. Burch�s blank.� Is a response to your comment?

T. FLANAGAN: That is, and he borrowed the Senior Will and wrote that in there

especially for me, because I probably deserved it. And you can see, I

said earlier how much I liked Coach Burch, and that�s probably a comment about the fact

that I liked him a lot. And, so, that was all playful, there was no malice in either one of

those comments.

L. FLANAGAN: So it seemed like there was a fair amount of camaraderie throughout

the team?

T. FLANAGAN: Oh, absolutely. Just back to the Jay Addy thing, I mean Jay was my

favorite pass receiver that year. A really great athlete and actually

probably better known for his exploits as a basketball player, so yes there was lots of

camaraderie, lots of us - it�s kind of fun to go back. I live a thousand miles away from

New Concord now, but I can walk back and just pick up conversations with all those

guys as if it were, it had been a week instead of years.

L. FLANAGAN: So, had many of you played on the same teams together? Not

necessarily football, I know that a lot of you played on the baseball

team as well?

T. FLANAGAN: Yes, I mean the - I suppose there was a group of guys that sort of were

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the jocks that were athletes on � I mean it was a small high school. If

you were an athlete on one team, you likely were an athlete on another team. Many guys

played two or three sports. It went beyond high school. Summer baseball was a big deal

in the area and I played baseball with guys from John Glenn and played with guys on my

baseball team in the summer that I played against during, football and baseball season in

high school.

L. FLANAGAN: Can you tell me a little bit about the press coverage before the season?

I know here we have the newspaper press coverage that not only refers

to John Glenn but also all the other area high schools. (Insert footnote describing

newspaper section.)

T. FLANAGAN: I think the press coverage probably had decent things to say about

John Glenn [High School]. See, the perennial power in the MVL was

always New Lexington. New Lex[ington] was always probably the game we got up for

as much as any other game. And they were probably, I don�t know if this is accurate or

not, but they were always winning the football championship in the MVL. They would

be a story unto themselves. Football really reigned in New Lexington. There�s not a

college there. New Lex[ington] is all about football. They had a stadium probably about

the same size as Muskingum�s stadium. I remember going to New Lex[ington]�s stadium

as a kid when my dad was refereeing high school football, and I would just hang out at

the stadium. That was always a cool place to go because it was sort of in a little cove,

ravine area with the stands built up on the side of a hill. It seemed like big time to me.

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So New Lex[ington], I�m sure was probably picked to win the MVL. I think press

coverage for John Glenn [High School] was that we would have a good defense and

(garbled) on how the offense would come together under a new head coach. So, that�s

about what I remember.

L. FLANAGAN: How much press coverage was there during the season? And then

afterwards [after the season] we�ll get to a little bit later.

T. FLANAGAN: Okay, well the, during the season, the Saturday morning paper - the

big paper in the area would be the Zanesville Times-Recorder, would

really be where the most coverage of the MVL was. Zanesville was the county seat of

Muskingum County and most of the schools were sort of in a wheel spoke around

Zanesville. That was the main city in Southeastern Ohio. You�d get the Saturday

morning papers to see what they had to say about your game. That was the big deal to

do. Being at John Glenn [High School], we were situated between Zanesville and

Cambridge. The Cambridge Jeffersonian [another newspaper] covered John Glenn [High

School] football pretty extensively, so there would also be coverage of out games in that

paper. You could read about yourself twice. Pretty exciting stuff.

L. FLANAGAN: Were the games broadcast on the radio?

T. FLANAGAN: They were, pretty amazing. The broadcast, there would be a broadcast

on the big station which was WHIZ out of Zanesville. What would

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happen with that is, there would be a game of the week. I don�t know how many times

we were actually up on WHIZ, probably two or three times during the season. We were

broadcast every game by the local radio station in New Concord, which was the

Muskingum College radio station. That probably had a broadcast radius of, I don�t know,

ten miles or so. But I wish I could remember the guy�s name, Mark, Mark somebody,

who was a junior. Probably a junior or senior at Muskingum, that was the play-by-play

guy. He would call all our games. I think they actually went on the road (laughs) and

broadcast our games. The main thing I can remember about him was, because I met him

after I decided to go to Muskingum College, I can�t remember if he told me during my

senior year, it might have been because I think he interviewed me after a game, but I

remember him telling me when I got to Muskingum that he had nicknames for me and for

Jay Addy. I was Mr. Fling and Jay was Mr. Cling. So I thought that was pretty fun.

L. FLANAGAN: Can you tell me were, you mentioned New Lexington a couple times,

were they any kind of a rival with John Glenn [High School] or was

there a specific school that you were rivals with?

T. FLANAGAN: New Lex[ington] was probably our biggest rival, because again they

so often were very good at football. In fact they were such a rival that

� [it�s] probably something about small Southeastern Ohio that every year there was a

traditional football party after the end of the football season. The party would happen

either in New Lexington or in New Concord area. It would be players from the two

teams. I can remember my sophomore year the party was in New Lex[ington], actually it

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was between New Lex[ington] and New Concord. We rented a cabin, I�m not sure how

we did that, but we rented a cabin and there was a lot of high school shenanigans and

drinking a couple kegs of beer. Pretty much it was the sophomores� job to take care of

the seniors who would party too hardy and we�d have to make sure that they were okay.

I know after - that was our sophomore year, I think that was at the Columbia Gas, on the

Columbia Gas Company�s ground, was where this cabin was. I think my senior year, we

somehow rented another cabin, closer to New Lex[ington] for the football party. I

remember you know, dancing with - dancing around. I don�t know if there was, I can�t

remember exactly, we had had a great time partying with the New Lex[ington] players.

Jim Midaw and I, Jim was the quarterback of New Lexington, and I think, I think he and

I were the co-All MVL quarterbacks that year. He was probably a much better athlete

than I was but he was kind of a wild man.

L. FLANAGAN: Kind of a wild man�

T. FLANAGAN: Kind of a wild man.

L. FLANAGAN: Alright. Now you played on the Muskingum college field. What was

it like to play on the college field? You said that it was kind of big

deal. Did any of the Muskingum students come to the games?

T. FLANAGAN: I�m sure they did. I mean there was a - Muskingum field was right on

campus, right in the center of campus. It was, in some ways, one of

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the centerpieces of the college campus in the heart of New Concord. Again sort of in a

low lying area, right by College Lake and surrounded by hills on three sides. It was a

very picturesque stadium. I remember going there again as a kid and saw my dad referee.

It was also one of my favorite places to go, because it was one of the bigger stadiums. A

lot of the fields in the MVL were adjacent to the high schools. They were just out in the

flat farm area and this had character. You felt like you were on a bigger stage. It wasn�t

just the old aluminum stands that would fold out; it was a concrete stadium and it had

permanent sides. The visitors, on the other side of the field, had the old aluminum

stadium, little aluminum seats, but, this was, somehow seemed like a bigger deal than

most other places we would play. I think the visiting team had the same sense, because

we were the only school in the league that didn�t play on a field right by the high school.

This was the team that got to play on the college field.

L. FLANAGAN: So was there a bit of, of envy, or feelings of intimidation for the other

team, could you say?

T. FLANAGAN: That�s interesting. There might have been a little bit of that, because it

really was, it really felt like you were on a bigger stage. So that

probably worked to our advantage to some degree.

L. FLANAGAN: Now can you walk me through a typical game day?

T. FLANAGAN: A typical game day, well it would depend on if we were playing at

23

home or away because for away games, it would be somewhat

different because of course you had to bus to the other fields and Muskingum County is a

fairly big county. So you might have as much as a, close to an hour long bus ride to get

to the other high school. For an away game, you would literally have to pack your gear.

So you would go to the locker room and everybody had a big bag and, your uniforms �

there was an area of the locker rooms called the cage where you would store your football

equipment, a big part of it on these funky hangers. So, the shoulder pads would go on top

of the hanger and you�d hang other pads and stuff all over it. Everybody had their place

in the cage to hang their stuff. You�d have to go get that and pack all your stuff in the

bag, the bags of course would go into the bus and we�d go into to the bus and have this

long ride to the other stadium and get into the locker room that we were assigned. Put

your stuff on, do some pre-game workout stuff and then get ready for the game. There

[were] several hours before game time, even at the high school level to really begin

preparing. I don�t recall that we had specific, like, pre-game meals. Seems like we may

have, on one or two occasions, had some kind of a pre-game meal with the team late in

the afternoon before a game. Games time were usually seven o�clock or so, so it was

always dark. It was under the lights which also made it seem like a bigger deal. So that

was kind of the routine.

L. FLANAGAN: Were there ever any pep rallies at the school?

T. FLANAGAN: Oh yes, pep rallies were a main part of the high school thing. Every -

prior to every game there would be a pep rally in the gym. And

24

sometimes the team would always sit down front in the stands. And there was -

everybody knew the right cheers and everybody sang the alma mater and the coaches

would always say something and sometimes they would ask the captains to say

something to the crowd. I mean it was what you did for 10 weeks every fall. That was

what high school was all about.

L. FLANAGAN: So this � it extended throughout the entire school, not just the team.

Did the team players wear their jerseys to school that day?

T. FLANAGAN: That was one of those traditions. You always wore the appropriate,

either dark or light jersey depending on if you were home or away.

The players were all very identifiable on Fridays at school. Of course everyone was

wishing you luck and the teachers were � and for every game it seemed like that there

would be a new t-shirt made that would say, �Beat whoever you happened to be playing

that week.� The teachers would wear them and cheerleaders would be selling them at a

table so that other students could buy them. It was, when you think back, it was really a

big deal and everybody, my memory says, everybody was pretty excited about the games.

L. FLANAGAN: One last question about game day; did you have any kind of team

rituals or did you have any individual rituals or team prayer, anything

like that?

T. FLANAGAN: There were - one of the big, there were a couple of, I guess they were

25

rituals. For every practice, at the end of practice we, the team would

get together and sort of huddle up at one end of the field. The captains or the seniors

would all have something motivational � I�m not sure how motivational it really was, but

we would be talking about whatever the next team we were playing was, and then we�d

have this ritual where we would line up two by two, or three by three and do this little -

from one end of the field we�d do this chant like �Hit! Hit! Hit! Hit!...� and we were in

step and the whole team was kind of bobbing up and down for the whole hundred yards

down, down to the other end of the field. There�d be a big cheer and we�d be done with

practice then. It�s hard to say what that was even about, but it was, it was about team, it�s

about everybody being in step and being on the same page. The same thing right before

games. I mean, the coaches would get us in a big huddle and you know kind of get us

fired up and sometimes the players would have a couple things to say and everybody was

motivated to do their best and win that particular game.

[TAPE STOPS AND RESTARTS]

L. FLANAGAN: You�ve mentioned team captains a couple times, can you tell me who

they were?

T. FLANAGAN: (sighs) Well the, there were two guys that were the captains. I can�t

remember if we rotated another captain in. Pymm West and Ned Stats were the 2

captains my senior year. I think we rotated other seniors in to be captains for certain

games. I know I did that several times, I think probably John Wood did it a couple times,

26

Brad Williams probably did it a couple times. But Pymm and Ned were the two, they

were the two real stalwarts of the team.

L. FLANAGAN: Was it because of leadership quality or just experience on the team?

T. FLANAGAN: I think experience, skill. They were both really good athletes, they

were both, they both might have been all-MVL picks their junior year,

and so we were really depending a lot on them. Pymm was more vocal of the two, Ned

was pretty quiet, led by example. Pymm was just a tough guy and was one of the

spiritual leaders of the team; you got behind Pymm. Pymm was a good guy to have on

your side.

L. FLANAGAN: Was there an offensive captain and defensive captain or just...

T. FLANAGAN: No I don�t think so, both those guys could play both ways. Pymm, for

a lot of our senior season, only played defense because he was injured,

he had a broken collar bone early in the year. I think he ended up playing mostly

defense. Ned was the center so I was close to Ned in a lot of ways (chuckles) and he also

was our middle guard? on defense.

L. FLANAGAN: How often did you practice during the season?

T. FLANAGAN: Oh, we practiced every day. The � some days, there were a few

27

Saturdays we would come in to watch film. Film wasn�t nearly as

technologically advanced as it is today. I mean there�d be, there was one camera up in

the press box that was just - you�d see the plays up and down the field. So, Saturday

mornings we�d come in and watch the film from the Friday night game. If we didn�t do

that on Saturdays we do that on Monday � it was usually game film day. But we�d start

getting ready on the Monday of the week to get ready for the next game, which would be

the following Friday. Usually what would happen would be on Mondays, sometimes we

wouldn�t go out in pads we�d go out in, not full pads, we�d go out in shoulder pads,

helmets, and shorts and just work the kinks out, we�d begin putting in some new plays.

Tuesday and Wednesday would be full pads. Thursday would be shorts day because we

didn�t want to get anybody beat up before the game on Friday. So it was a fairly short

preparation. We did have guys who were on the coaching staff who would go scout the

next team, so we�d have a little bit of information on tendencies and who the best players

were and stuff. We�d get prepared for a few things, but mostly we tried to be just as good

[on] our own execution versus trying to put in things to stop the other team.

L. FLANAGAN: Did any of the coaches in particular lead practice, or was it really

Coach Drobny that was in charge?

T. FLANAGAN: Well it was clear that he was in charge but, there�d be separate

offensive drills, separate defensive drills. There�d be times for special

teams and different coaches would do different things, and we had specific drills that we

would do all the time. It was, passing drills and practice certain offensive plays just for

28

timing, things like that.

L. FLANAGAN: Alright, I think we�re just about out of tape on this side. We�re going

to take a little break and then we�ll start again.

T. FLANAGAN: Great.

[BEGIN TAPE 1, SIDE 2]

L. FLANAGAN: This is Tape 1, Side 2 of the October 7th interview of Tim Flanagan by

Lindsay Flanagan. Ok, now I�d like to talk to you a little bit about the

season itself. Your first game was a twenty-six to nothing loss to Barnesville. How did

that impact the team, with the pre-season expectations?

T. FLANAGAN: The Barnesville game was, Barnesville was a larger community

than John Glenn. There were, [as] I said earlier single A, double A,

triple A teams, Barnesville might have been a triple A team that year. Big high school

and were set to have a pretty good year. We didn�t expect to go get blown out 26 � 0.

What I remember most about that game is, one, it�s a game I didn�t play in because I had

the concussion from the Newcomerstown scrimmage. I�m pretty sure Pymm didn�t play

that game because his collar bone was broken, and that, I don�t know if that happened

[during] that game or if that happened also in the pre-season. But still, Pymm was out, I

was out. We had a brand new offense, brand new coach, I think just a whole number of

29

things didn�t work for us that game and if anything, a loss is never a good thing, but I

think we were pretty humbled by getting blown out that badly. So, it was not a good way

to start the year.

L. FLANAGAN: So that was a non-conference game.

T. FLANAGAN: Yes it was. Usually you started the year with a non-conference game

or two early in the season. So that was good.

L. FLANAGAN: Did you play non-conference games with a different strategy than

MVL games?

T. FLANAGAN: (sighs) I don�t know that we played with a different strategy. The

top priority was always to play well in the league. So you always

wanted to win your league games because that�s where you�d win championships. I

would say they probably weren�t the same priority but you never went in to a game with

anything other than expecting to win. You wanted to win.

L. FLANAGAN: Throughout the season you played a number of different teams. Was

there any team in particular that you were or were not looking forward

to playing?

T. FLANAGAN: Oh, well, we always looked forward to playing all the league games. I

30

think New Lex[ington] was always a big game. That 1972 season they

were the second game of the year, so we were really pointing toward that. As the season

progressed sometimes games became bigger or not as big because you would know the

records of the other team and who was at top in the league and who wasn�t. So each

game took on a different significance depending on how the other team had been playing

and how you�d been playing that far into the season.

L. FLANAGAN: Can you tell me what you remember as being the fiercest game of the

season?

T. FLANAGAN: Fiercest game of the season. I talked a lot about New Lexington

because that was a big rivalry. The others, I don�t know, every MVL

game was a rivalry. The Sheridan game my senior year was a really fierce game, as was

the Maysville game. In both situations we were sort of in come from behind situations.

That made those especially memorable and sort of trying. The Morgan game, and I think

even though we won by a pretty good amount my senior year, Morgan had a, they always

had these big, huge kids that played for them. Morgan had one guy that was just

enormous. I mean, I don�t know that we had anybody over 200 pounds on our team and

they had this one defensive tackle that was probably like 275 or 280, I mean a big, big

farm kid that just dwarfed everybody else. Everyone knew about him in the league. I

can�t remember his name right now but huge. Huge guy. So, all the MVL games, Tri-

Valley was a pretty big rivalry, they were one of the bigger schools. Philo we always got

up for. West Muskingum sort of the sister school in the other part of the county. Every

31

game was important.

L. FLANAGAN: Well, just to set your memory at ease, you beat Morgan nineteen to

nothing.

T. FLANAGAN: Oh, good.

L. FLANAGAN: As you said, you�ve mentioned New Lex[ington] a couple times, now

I believe that was the first overtime game in the history of the MVL.

T. FLANAGAN: It was indeed. That was the first year that they put overtime into the

Ohio high school rules. The way overtime worked � I think it still

works this way � each team got the ball, if it was tied at the end of regulation. Each

team got the ball on the 20 yard line. You had four downs to score I think was the way

the rules went. We were playing at New Lex[ington] and the game ended in a tie, again I

wasn�t playing, I watched this from the side lines because I was still not medically

released to play. Mark Sturdevant, junior, year behind me, really good athlete, good guy,

better athlete than I was, was our quarterback. I think he played probably his best game

of the season that year. I can�t remember for sure who scored for us in overtime, it may

have been Craig Furry who was a junior running back that scored on a short run, I don�t

remember that for certain, but we ended up winning that game 20 � 14 in overtime. It

was a huge win for us. Just a huge win.

32

L. FLANAGAN: You mentioned Mark Sturdevant. He was the other quarterback on

the team and I have an article here titled �One Two Quarterback Punch

Key to Little� [pauses, restarts] �One, Two Quarterback Punch Key to Little Muskie

Hopes.� And it, this article is about the two of you, Flanagan and Sturdevant, and Coach

Drobny�s nice problem of having to decide who to start at quarterback. Can you tell me a

little bit about that?

T. FLANAGAN: Yes. Mark was, his nickname was �Silk.� He was, he was smooth. I

think that�s why his nickname was �Silk.� He was the fastest guy on

the team. We wanted to have him on the field because he was fast, he was shifty, he was

a good athlete. He threw a very nice spiral, had a good arm. The issue with Mark was,

he had grown up in Andy Duda�s offense, so he knew that offense. Learning a new

offense, I think Mark just wasn�t as quick to pick up the new offense, the new offensive

schemes, as I was. Had he been, I might not have played nearly as much my senior year.

So, in terms of athleticism, I would be the first to say that Mark was a better athlete than I

was. In fact he played a little bit of wide receiver when he wasn�t playing quarterback

because he was, he was quick. He was a weapon for us.

L. FLANAGAN: Was there ever any kind of rivalry between the two of you?

T. FLANAGAN: You know I don�t remember there being a rivalry. I mean Mark and I

were pretty good buddies and we wanted to do the best thing for the

team. I think we both wanted to play. I know that I certainly, I wouldn�t have been

33

happy not playing so I�m glad it worked out the way it did, for sure. Now the next year I

think Mark played more tailback than quarterback actually because, and again one of my

friends that I�ve mentioned, Dave Fitzgerald, half back, h-back, all purpose back, his

younger brother Bob [Fitzgerald], I think became the starting quarterback the year after I

graduated. They used Mark, in a number of other offensive ways. So, it I think worked

out for the best in the long run.

L. FLANAGAN: Now after your, your first game was the blowout to Barnesville and

then you beat New Lex[ington] in the second game, and that was the

overtime win. Can you tell me, was there a turning point in the season?

T. FLANAGAN: The turning point was in, I think, the fourth game against Maysville.

Our third game of the year was against, excuse me, Licking Valley,

another non-conference game. Again that was the first game that I was cleared to be able

to play. I kind of was looking forward to playing that game because Licking Valley was

in the league where I had played as a freshman before we moved to New Concord, when

I played at Utica High School. I was actually on the freshmen football team at Utica that,

I think we only played six games but we were six and oh and virtually un-scored on. We

had a really good team, and I played quarterback for that team. I was looking forward to

playing a team out of that conference. But I didn�t play because they still didn�t want me,

they were still concerned. We were losing and I got my first action of the year. I

basically kept begging � might have been why Jay Addy gave me his little, his little thing

on the Senior Will because I kept begging Coach Burch to let me play. I think he finally

34

convinced Coach Drobny to get me in for a series or two because I was medically

cleared. I don�t remember exactly how well I did. We got beat by a touchdown or so. I

don�t remember the final score. You might have that record in front of you there

someplace.

L. FLANAGAN: I do. Actually you were beat a little bit worse than that. It was 22 � 7.

[Garbled]

T. FLANAGAN: That�s two touchdowns. Again, the non-conference games [were]

kind of another wake up call. I�m pretty sure that game Pymm, I don�t

think Pymm West was back for that game yet. I think Pymm and I both came back for

the Maysville game, which was to me the turning point of the year. At Maysville, once

again I didn�t start, to my dismay. But we got behind early and then I came in. I came in

in the first half. We were behind, the point at which we were behind 13 � 0. I can�t

remember if we scored late in the first half but I know I threw two touchdown passes to

Jay Addy. We ended up winning that game 14 � 13. In the final, it was less than a

minute to go when we scored. It was a fourth and goal situation. And we called a, I

actually remember the play that we called, it was a fake hand off to Bill Wilson on tackle

and we called it, it was a 36 belly pass throwback. What that meant was that I would try

to make a good fake and sell the fake to Bill into the line and I would sort of do a circle

back and look to the, the opposite side where Jay was running a flag pattern which is into

the far corner of the end zone. It so happened that they bit on the fake I made the pass to

35

Jay. He make a good catch in the back of the end zone and we didn�t know it at the time

but the play wouldn�t have come off had not Dave Fitzgerald who was in motion actually

saw a defensive end or an outside linebacker that did not get blocked who was bearing

down on me who was going to (chuckles) who was going to prevent me from making the

pass. Dave blocked him and so I was okay to throw the pass. I didn�t realize that till we

saw the films the next day or the following Monday after the game. Dave got a big

thanks for that. So that actually was the play that allowed us to win that game, which

made up 2 � 0 in the MVL. Had we lost that game we would have been 1 � 1 and

wouldn�t have had a shot to win the MVL.

L. FLANAGAN: So my next question would be, when did you start to think that the

MVL championship was in reach?

T. FLANAGAN: Well we went, after the Maysville game we played two or three more

games where we won. I don�t know if we won handily but I think our

defense stepped up. We played just well enough on offense to be 4 � 0, 5 � 0 going in to,

going in to the Sheridan game I think. We blew somebody out, I think we blew Philo out

big time. 35 � 0 or something, probably our best all around game of the season. After

that game we were feeling pretty good about ourselves. Undefeated, and we were, went

to Sheridan who at the time had one loss to New Lexington. So Sheridan was one loss,

New Lex[ington] was one loss because we beat them. Had we beat Sheridan we�d been

undisputed in control.

That game, again we got down early and I remember we, I hit Jay on a long pass

36

for a touchdown I think, somewhat late in the game to get it close. It was 14 � 13 coming

down into the final minutes of the game. We sort of went to a, it was kind of a quasi-no

huddle, we were trying to move the ball. I remember making a, it was a key play, it was

on a third down and I hit John Wood on a long pass that John made a great catch on and

got out of bounds to stop the clock. We were, it was down to like the 5 yard line and it

was getting down to less than a minute to go and it was literally, in my mind I think there

were 11 seconds left to go. We were out of time outs. It was third down from the two

yard line or the three yard line. I wanted to run, we�d called our final time out. I was

pleading to run one more pass play where I was going to, basically try to do about the

same play that had won the game at Maysville on and we were just going to go to the line

make a read, Jay was going to run either a slant or a fake to plant and go to the flag. I

promised I�d throw the ball away if it wasn�t, I wasn�t going to make a mistake and not

throw it into the end zone or get it intercepted. With 11 seconds, there�s no way the clock

would have run out. But Coach Drobny elected to go for the field goal, which he thought

would be kind of the sure thing, third down, if something bad would happen, if the play

got called dead we�d have still another shot on fourth down. So in that regard I guess that

made a little bit of sense but, the guy who was our usual snapper for the field goals and

punts had hurt his hand. He wasn�t confident he could snap it well and we had a different

holder than we had had. Of course we sort of botched the snap, botched the hold,

Clayton Dawson was our kicker. It wasn�t botched so badly that he didn�t get it off, but

he missed it.

The game ended basically on the missed field goal because it�s a touchback and

Sheridan got the ball with just a few seconds left and just had to take the snap and take a

37

knee so we lost 14 � 13. I literally remember being on the field. I was choked up, I was

crying because we had done everything we could to win the game and I felt like it was

just a bad call by Coach Drobny. That, it might still not have won but at least could have

taken one more shot at winning the game. That was a heartbreaker. So that was our one

loss for the season, which was the loss that basically caused us to end up in a three way

tie with New Lex[ington] and Sheridan for the MVL championship. Of course we still

had to win out the rest of our games. I think we still had three games left in the season.

In some ways that was a turning point game because kind of could have cashed it in at

that point but that was. That was a crushing defeat.

L. FLANAGAN: Sound like it was pretty rough. Well it turns out that you did win

out the season from there. You had three games left. So was there, I

assume there was some sort of a bounce back?

T. FLANAGAN: Well we, we kind of rode the defense. The next week against

Crooksville. I think we won 6 � 0, which gave us a boost so we were

back in. We were still co-leaders of the league. Played a really good game the following

week against Morgan. It was another shutout. We had two shutouts in a row, the defense

really was stepping up big. I remember the Morgan game, there was it wasn�t a real

consequential play, but it was one that we laughed at a lot because we kept running the

film back. It was one of the rare plays where I ran with the ball on a scramble and was, I

think probably was one of the longest gains I had of the seasons. Fifteen or twenty yards

scrambling. And as I was going down the sideline, trying to stay inbounds and my step

38

caused me to sort of turn back in toward the field a little bit at the same time a guy, the

guy who tackled me just crushed me in the numbers. I remember Pymm West running

over and picking me up and in his words, he thought it was such a blow that I would be

dead. The coaches playfully kept doing forward, reverse, forward, reverse as this guy

just nailed me several times. That was okay, we won the game.

L. FLANAGAN: Okay.

T. FLANAGAN: The last game of the season we had to win, against West Muskingum,

another big defensive battle that we ended up winning 7 � 6. We made

it as exciting as we could I guess. Pretty historic game because that win enabled us to go

down as MVL champions for the first time in John Glenn High School history. Not the

first time in New Concord history. Prior to being renamed John Glenn High School, New

Concord High School had won the league several times. In fact back in the 50s they had

a team that went un-scored upon for a season. I can�t remember the exact year but really,

that was a pretty awesome team. Fifties, maybe early sixties I can�t remember exactly.

John Glenn High School had been in existence for several years. I have to look back at

the history but I think probably since 1968, maybe, 67, 68 it became John Glenn High

School. So that was the first MVL championship in John Glenn history. Nice deal.

L. FLANAGAN: Can you tell me a little bit about any kind of interaction with the

community during the football season?

39

T. FLANAGAN: Well the community was tight knit so anybody who was a football

player and went to Shegog�s IGA was the big store in town or the

Dairy Queen, people just knew everybody. The big interaction was, there were these, the

schedules would get printed on these cardboard signs that could go into storefront

windows so of course all the stores, the barbershop, John Wycoff�s dad was the barber in

town, John was a starting guard on the team, and the IGA, the pharmacy, Pearl�s Pizza

joint, the gas station, everybody would have a John Glenn High School record in the

window. It was a big deal. Like most high schools there�s always a parent�s night and

there was homecoming. Everything in the fall centered around high school football.

L. FLANAGAN: Can you tell me generally, well you were the quarterback, so can you

tell me did you contribute to the team in any larger way? Did you

have any kind of a leadership position given that you were a senior?

T. FLANAGAN: Well all the seniors were held in high regard. Being an

upperclassman, being a senior especially, other players just sort of

naturally, traditionally looked up to you. The quarterback is always a visible position so I

think I was held in high regard that way. Again was often one of the co-captains for

game day. The, I don�t know, I took it on as part of my responsibility and it should be for

the quarterback. I kind of knew what everybody�s responsibility was, of course all the

plays. Often had a running joke with John Wycoff, helping him remember which way he

should block and things like that on plays. I think that comes with, the quarterback needs

to have heavier responsibility than everybody else.

40

L. FLANAGAN: As you�ve said before this was the first time that John Glenn High

School had won the MVL and you only clinched your tri-

championship position against, with the game against West Muskingum, can you

describe that feeling for me when you realized that you were going to win? That was a

pretty close game, the final score was 7 � 6.

T. FLANAGAN: What do I remember about that game, I remember...I remember

knowing that with that win would make us the champions. I

remember celebrating with everybody, we didn�t even call it a high five back there but

clapping and hitting everybody on the helmet and dancing around in the middle of the

field after the game. Sort of an unbelievable feeling that we were actually the

championship team. Of course I remember running off the field we all had big index

finger up in the air. I�m surprised nobody got a photograph of that for the yearbook,

because it was, probably in retrospect a bigger deal than we probably even realized at the

time. It just sort of happened and back in 1972 nobody had camera phones or, there

weren�t digital cameras and you had to sort of plan to be able to get photos of things. The

fact that it happened was huge. I remember leading up to the West Muskingum game I

think there are actually I few pictures in the yearbook of some of the teachers wearing

their Beat West t-shirts in the yearbook because we were, we knew how big the game

was. The fact that we came through was really pretty cool.

L. FLANAGAN: Can you tell me about the kind of community reaction to clinching

41

MVL?

T. FLANAGAN: I�m trying to recall the, I mean I remember the parents cheering for us

after the game coming out of the locker room and stuff after we

showered and everything. I have a vague memory of, on Monday morning at school, the

announcements that had won the league championship. I think there was a little

recognition assembly about that early that week. I don�t remember there being, there

wasn�t like a parade through town or anything. It�s really too bad that there wasn�t

because it was, it was pretty cool. I do remember when they made the announcements, I

think it was late that week, maybe the week after when they made the all-MVL selections

and so when they announced the all-MVL team. Several guys were all-MVL, Pymm was

all-MVL, Ned was, I think Dave Fitzgerald was, and I was. Jay might have been too.

But I remember Coach Drobny seeing me in the hallway after those announcements. I

can still hear his exact words. It goes, he said, �Hey Flan, you snuck right in there, didn�t

you?� It was one of the first times when I felt like he sort of recognized that I did okay

but he still had to put sort of a negative spin on it, I snuck in there. It wasn�t �I�m proud

of you, you deserved it.� It was �you snuck in there.� So I should have said, �Yeah, if

you had let me run that last play at Sheridan we have snuck in as the (laughs) the clear-

cut champions.� But I didn�t do that.

L. FLANAGAN: Probably a good idea.

T. FLANAGAN: Probably a good idea.

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L. FLANAGAN: What about your family�s reaction? I know your sister was in the

same school system and your dad also played high school football and

your mom worked at the Muskingum County schools.

T. FLANAGAN: Yes, mom [Jeanne Flanagan] was, she worked at the middle school

when I was in high school. My sister Teri [Flanagan] was a, was a

really good, a very, very good athlete, especially in softball for John Glenn. She was 4

years behind me. My dad [Patrick Flanagan] was a long time referee in the MVL, I think

also in some of the surrounding leagues. He actually played high school for old M and

M, Malta-McConnelsville. They were in the Muskingum Valley League and they

became Morgan High School which was a team that we played. That play I mentioned

where they kept running the film back and forth, where I got killed, I was playing on the

same high school field as my dad, where he played quarterback for Malta-

McConnelsville. He, that was kind of cool because at about the place that I got killed

going down the sideline, on that play, was about the same place that his, his dad and his

best friend�s dad were standing watching a high school game that he was playing in,

where both dads got hit by players coming out of bounds. Both dads broke their legs in

the same game (chuckles). Jimmy Grubb was my, one of my Dad�s best friends. They,

when his dad got hit they propped him up in the back of a pick-up truck he didn�t want to

go to the doctor to get his leg set till after the game. Then Jimmy Grubb�s dad got hit the

same way so they put him in the same pickup truck so they were both sitting there with

their leg�s broken watching the rest of the game. So, it was pretty cool to - I wish I would

43

have had the forethought to save some of the game films or asked to have those films

because where I got hit was about the same place as where my grandfather broke his leg

during the game that my dad played in. It was pretty cool.

L. FLANAGAN: So you (clears throat) didn�t really get a whole lot of pride from Coach

Drobny. Did your family, were, they were proud of you?

T. FLANAGAN: Oh yes, I know they were. I know they were, I don�t remember us

doing anything as a family really to celebrate it. Part of the memories

I have, and why I remember this I don�t know. I only personally scored one touchdown

during my high school career. It was on a quarterback sneak, boy, it may have been, I

was about to say it was against Morgan but I, it couldn�t have been against Morgan. It

must have been against Crooksville because it was a home game. I scored because it was

a silent snap, I got to the line of scrimmage and we had a different play called and there

was nobody right over the center where Ned was the center. I just sort of tapped him

inside the thigh. He hesitated for a minute and I tapped him again so he snapped the ball,

I made sure everybody else was set, so there was no count he just snapped it to me. He

rushed ahead I followed him in and I scored. I think, if it was the Crooksville game,

which I think it was, it was the only points of the game. I remember asking my mom

how she liked seeing me score. She admitted that she didn�t actually see it (laughs)

because she was talking to somebody and all of a sudden everybody was cheering and

she didn�t know that was me until everybody else started saying �It�s Tim!� The one

time I scored mom was chatting with somebody else.

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L. FLANAGAN: I believe she still goes to the John Glenn football games.

T. FLANAGAN: She does. She and dad, dad passed away this past July. They were

staples at the John Glenn High School games for all these years since

I�ve been gone. It shows you what kind of a tight knit community and still that�s a big

deal in the community. People go to the games, and she has gone to several games this

fall with other friends just because that�s what you do on a Friday night in New Concord.

L. FLANAGAN: Can you tell me what your, maybe just one or two of just your favorite

memories of the season?

T. FLANAGAN: (clears throat) These are probably a little repetitive. The, certainly the

Maysville game. Winning that game very late and Dave making the

block to make that possible to Jay making the catch. That was really huge because that

was really the turning point in the season. So that�s a really favorite memory.

I also remember, there were, my best friend Brad [Williams], I haven�t talked a

whole lot about Brad so far. Brad was a tailback and sometimes he�d play in the slot. So

that, belly pass that I�d throw to Jay a lot we also had kind of a version of that. It didn�t

require the same running play fake. It was a wing left 80 flag. What that would mean

was Brad would be in the right hand slot. Sometimes he would � or I guess wing left 80

flag he would be in the tailback position because the wing left meant Dave was in the slot

to the left. But I would drop back, and the 80 flag was Brad�s route to run out of the

45

backfield down and then do an angle toward the right hand corner of the end zone. We

did that play several times. So I remember that since we were best buddies. That was

our favorite play, to spring him loose.

The Sheridan game was another huge memory even though that was a loss. So it

was a long pass to Jay to get us back in the game. And the long pass to John Wood to get

us back down near the goal line late, that whole series of events was very memorable. So

those are some of the main ones. Probably the other thing, that is harder for me to

remember that had a big impact on my season was getting injured in the Newcomerstown

scrimmage. I remember as much about that from my friends telling me about it because

my dad [Patrick Flanagan] actually was refereeing that scrimmage and the hit that put me

out for the 3 games was a roughing the passer late hit to my head. I remember it was

either Coach Drobny or Coach Burch that was, they were sort of half dragging me off the

field because I was (laughs) unconscious. My dad was stopping the game because it was

late in the scrimmage and it was just a really dirty play. I don�t remember a lot about.

Coach was yelling at the other coach about controlling his kids. I was groggy. I was

partly stumbling and he was partly dragging me off the field. It was probably a pretty

funny scene in retrospect. I can�t remember if that was Coach Drobny or if that was

Coach Burch that was doing that. I�m not even sure. So I have lots of these little bits and

pieces of memories. Some of the best memories were the summer practices in those little

tents I told you about between the cars with Jay and Fitz [Dave Fitzgerald] and Brad.

Eating our peanut butter sandwiches and listen to the radio. I think one of us probably

had an 8-track player in our car and we�d listen to 8-track tapes.

We had a jukebox in the locker room that you didn�t have to put quarters in. A

46

couple of the favorite songs on that were Credence Clearwater Revival. �Looking out

my Back Door� was one that we�d just blast all the time. So a lot of camaraderie, a lot of

good times.

L. FLANAGAN: After you graduated from John Glenn, you attended Muskingum

College. Was there any kind of carry over in the expectations to play

football there?

T. FLANAGAN: Yes, there�s actually, I don�t know if it still exists. There�s a

newspaper clipping that shows Pymm West...Ned Stats...I think John

Wood...and me. All four of us were thinking very seriously about attending Muskingum

and playing football. So there�s this picture of the four of us on the Muskingum College

field, I think with Coach Christopher who was the head coach at Muskingum at the time.

There was a little thing about the four John Glenn players all going to Muskingum to play

football. It turns out only 2 of us ended up going to Muskingum, John went to another

college. Ned went to a college out in Idaho and blew out his knee and never had the

same kind of football career that I think we thought he might have. I decided on the very

last moment, the day before summer practices were beginning, I went to Coach

Christopher�s house and said that my heart wasn�t in playing football, I was going to

focus on baseball instead. He was very understanding, we had a nice chat. I just saw

Coach Christopher in the past few months when I was in Zanesville and chatted with him.

I even mentioned that point. He claims to have a memory of that and appreciated the fact

that I came and talked to him about it. I didn�t have that carry over in football. I

47

sometimes look back and regret, I kind of wish I had played. It would have been fun to

have four more years of memories. But I played baseball instead and had a decent

baseball career at Muskingum so that was fun.

L. FLANAGAN: Now you kept in touch with some of your old teammates, it sounds

like. Can you tell me who and for how long and if you�re still in touch

with them?

T. FLANAGAN: Now I�m pretty much in constant touch with Brad, Brad Williams who

was the starting tailback. Brad actually blew out his knee, had

a knee injury, it might have been in the Tri-Valley game that pretty much ended him

playing. He missed the last several games of the season or just played really sparingly

and ended up having to have surgery. Brad and I are best buddies. We�re still in touch

several times a month. Still see each other on a fairly regular basis. He lives in Ft.

Lauderdale [Florida]. Brad and I actually lived together and taught high school together

in the Cleveland area after college. I�ve stayed in touch with some of the guys in the

local area, Dave Fitzgerald and Jay Addy. I see them whenever I go back to visit family.

It�s just like picking up from not seeing each other for a week or two rather than having

years in between. I still see John Wycoff occasionally, he took over his dad�s business as

the New Concord town barber. He�s an icon in New Concord. I can stop by there and

get caught up on the past five years any time I go back. John knows everybody and

everybody knows him.

Recently have been reunited with Pymm West. Pymm and I both went to

48

Muskingum and just sort of grew apart and, geez, we went probably 20, 25 years or more

without speaking, without even knowing really much about where each other was except

for his younger brother John [West] who worked for my dad for a few years. Sort of out

of the blue, Pymm called here in the past couple of years on the phone and he�s driving a

truck. He and his family stopped for a visit here about a year, year and a half ago. That

was a nice getting reunited with Pymm so he and I trade phone calls every few months

now.

I�ve lost track of a lot of the guys though. The big deal though was, for

homecoming in the year 2002 John Glenn decided to honor the 1972 football team

because it was the 30th anniversary of the first MVL championship team. That was pretty

cool because we got to see, I think there were 18 guys from that team, 18 to 20 that

showed up. As I recall there were only thre from out of state and most of them still lived

in the area, took over the family business, the family farm that, kind of thing. So it was

the first time in 30 years that I�d seen some of those guys which was a whole lot of fun.

Brad and I both made the trip up from Florida to come up for that. That was indicative of

small town, Midwest football.

The homecoming parade always came through downtown New Concord and up

through the entrance of the college and up College Hill and would end at the football

stadium. They had a float for the MVL champions. In fact they had two floats. Now a

float in New Concord is, you get a pickup truck or a tractor hooked up to a farm wagon

and put a bunch of bales of hay on the farm wagon and tape a cardboard sign to the side

and maybe put some crepe paper streamers on the side. That�s your float. It was a big

parade that starts on the East end of town. There were probably 15 or 20 floats and the

49

band and the cheerleaders. On this particular occasion for the 30th anniversary the

remnants of a hurricane that came up through the Gulf were blowing through Ohio that

evening so it was a terrible rain storm. We were in this driving rain storm, sitting on

these floats trying to stay halfway dry. Driving through on Route 40 into New Concord,

Ohio and the people of the town are standing three and four deep along Main Street in the

driving rain for the high school homecoming parade. Just absolutely crazy about their

football.

L. FLANAGAN: How did you first about this reunion?

T. FLANAGAN: First heard about it, guy who was a junior, Dave Litt, contacted

everybody he could think to contact, saying that they were planning on

doing this. Dave, I think, still lives in the Columbus area. I think he was probably the

one behind it, who put the suggestion in the current athletic director�s mind and thought

that would be a great idea. So that�s where the invitation originated. Once he assessed

how much interest there might be from the team � they were probably pretty surprised

because as I said I think there were fewer than 40 guys on the team. Half of them said

sure, they�d participate. That�s pretty cool after 30 years.

L. FLANAGAN: Why did you decide to attend?

T. FLANAGAN: Oh, just because I had not seen some of those guys for that long. I

think just because we have been saying how big a deal high school

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football is to folks who grow up in that area. I guess it�s become part of the fabric of me,

that was, I mean, that was a meaningful time in my life. A chance to reconnect with

some of those guys was too good to pass up.

L. FLANAGAN: It was a pretty easy decision to make?

T. FLANAGAN: Absolutely. Very easy decision. And the pay offs were great.

Walking in to the, walking into the high school and seeing guys I

hadn�t seen for that long and seeing Coach Geiger, who was there, Coach Burch, the high

school principal. Don McKendry was there. Larry Miller, the superintendent was there.

Those guys were no longer the superintendent, no longer the principle. Bob Geiger was

no longer in the school system. So it wasn�t just the players, it was the coaches. There

was, it was great to see those guys. Then being introduced on the field, people in the

stands showing their appreciation. It�s a little surreal.

L. FLANAGAN: Do you happen to remember if they won that game?

T. FLANAGAN: You know what, I don�t. I remember watching the game. I remember

thinking how fun it was to be at the game. Don�t remember if

John Glenn won that game or not.

L. FLANAGAN: I guess that part wasn�t quite as important.

51

T. FLANAGAN: Not at all.

L. FLANAGAN: Do you think that your experience at this reunion differed from those

of your teammates who still lived in the immediate area?

T. FLANAGAN: I imagine it did. When you think about the 14 or 15 guys who were

right there from the area. They see each other still on a fairly regular

basis so this was in some ways, not just another Friday night, but they probably would

have bumped in to each other at the game anyway. What made it special was, for Brad

and for me especially, and Ralph Rupert, who came in from Virginia, I think. Who

actually, it�s pretty meaningful about this, when I first saw Ralph, he told me he had

something very special for me, that he had been waiting for years to give to me. I

couldn�t for the life of me figure out what it was. He went off to his car and came back in

and he had my high school yearbook. The same one that you�re looking at tonight, that

had been missing for 25 years. I had no idea whatever happened to it. What had

happened was, I had visited Ralph when I was working at Virginia Commonwealth

University in Richmond, and Ralph was in Virginia. We got together one night, I took

the yearbook just to reminisce, this was in the early 80s and apparently left the yearbook

with Ralph. I hadn�t seen it for then I guess 20 years and assumed it had been lost in one

of our moves. He had my yearbook with the Senior Will, that you referred to tonight,

still stuck in the back. So that made it even more special to get the yearbook back.

L. FLANAGAN: Sounds like it. (Clear throat.) So, how did it feel to still have the

52

support from the town 30 years later and you know, the boys playing

on the field weren�t born yet but...

T. FLANAGAN: (Laughs) Wow. I am old. How did it feel? It felt great. I wanted to,

we were down on the field for the warm up before the game. I kept

contemplating walking over to the quarterbacks, who were throwing the practice passes

to get warmed up. To walk over and say, �Can I make a couple of throws?� I wanted to

put Jay out on the end and let Jay run a pass pattern and let me throw him a couple of

passes. But I didn�t. I didn�t want to show up anybody, or look bad as the case might be.

But, it was, that was the same old feeling. It was déjà vu about, so didn�t want �

L. FLANAGAN: All over again?

T. FLANAGAN: Yes, all over again. Felt right at home being back on a field.

L. FLANAGAN: Well thank you very much for your cooperation tonight. Can you

think of anything else that I should have asked about or anything else

that you�d like to add?

T. FLANAGAN: Off hand I�m not sure there�s anything else I can add. It would be

really a lot of fun for you to be able to talk to some of the other guys.

To see if they have the same kinds of memories and remember things the same way. If

you do that I would love to hear how that goes and see what they have to say. Thanks for

53

the opportunity.

L. FLANAGAN: Great, thank you so much.

[END TAPE 1, SIDE 2]