Chascomm Senior Member Senior Geek

Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Western Australia

Posts: 154

A Russian article about the Russian Diver (updated with actual facts from Jim)

The Russian Russian Diver that is...

Run this through the translator of your choice:

http://mediazavod.ru/articles/89612

Apparently the Clock and Stopwatch factory in Zlatoust have finally recognized the

popularity of this type of watch and started a limited production of an updated 191-ChS, called 192-ChS

http://agatfactory.com/index/?lang=r...=903&prods=act

3 Lastest Threads by Chascomm

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A Russian article about the Russian Diver... General Invicta Watch Discussions sanlover99 76 1756 08-03-2010 07:43 PM

Made in India General Japanese or Asian Watch Brands jilgiljongiljing 14 404 02-13-2010

04:46 AM

Chinese mechanical repeaters General Watch Topics Chascomm 6 111 09-25-2009

11:25 PM

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#2

08-03-2010, 10:37 PM

kmt Junior Member

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Chascomm The Russian Russian Diver that is...

Run this through the translator of your choice:

http://mediazavod.ru/articles/89612

Hello WG's - this is my first post after joining recently and reading everything I can here.

After doing much research (here and elsewhere) on the Russian Diver, I have been quite

intrigued by this watch and am looking to obtain one of the reissued Invicta's with the Unitas movement.

I read the translated article above, and it has lit a fire for also obtaining an original 1959 -

but raises some of the concerns I've read elsewhere pertaining to the provenance of the original Invicta Russian Diver. In fact, there are several threads here at WG that delve into

the history of the piece as well, in particular a lengthy thread in the Russian sub-forum.

My chief concern from the linked article above, is the Zlatoust factory appears to be contradicting the official history as put forth by Invicta (and ShopNBC). In particular, the

following quote from the article: Quote:

"You can ask: but where is a mention about Invicta? Nowhere. There is no place for Invicta

in the real history behind Zlatoust dive watches.

Of course, it is not accidental that in 2003 Invicta watch company began to promote their

watch line called “Russian Diver” and made them in the same style as famous Zlatoust

191-ChS diver watches. As for the purposefulness of Invicta watches, they are more

decorative then really functional pieces seriously being inferior to Zlatoust 191-ChS ones in this point.

Invicta is a Swiss watch company and is well-known from the middle of 19th century. In

1991 it was bought by American businessmen, who began to promote a very aggressive marketing strategy for the brand.

The tall tale, which was chosen for promoting the so-called “Russian Diver” line was very

interesting. They alleged that in 1959 the Soviet Navy General Headquarters chose Invicta

as the best among other Swiss watch companies and, thus, the company was commissioned to make a limited edition of 100 dive watches, whether as prize watches for

the best Navy divers or to compare the quality of Swiss watches to that of Soviet ones.

As for the design, they say that the design of these watches was discovered among documents belonging to the grandmother of Eyal Lalo, the CEO of Invicta. According to

their statements, the old sample was a thoroughly improved version and was the only real

prototype of all diver watches made in Zlatoust. And that’s why, as they conclude, Invicta

has "moral rights" to produce watches of this design. Of course, not a single document or other serious evidence was introduced in order to prove it. All the respected specialists

display irony towards their tall tale.

Even the inscription on the dial of so-called “Russian Divers”, written intentionally (or maybe just through ignorance?) with glaring mistake as "ИМФ СССР" instead of "ВМФ

СССР", indirectly show non-participation in creating the real Zlatoust diver watches. This

type of a “mistake” is often used by the pirate companies stealing other companies ideas.

However, this doesn’t prevent Invicta from selling thousands of watches because their advertising strategy has worked out to influence average buyers who first buy a watch and

then develop interest in its authenticity.

Nowadays, the Invicta Russian Diver line numbers about thirty different models at the price range between $150 to $2000 and the basic model of this line, a copy of the real

Zlatoust diver watch, Model 2625, with the price at $600.

Invicta actively promote their watches through Internet sale sites and ShopNBC TV channel.

Perfectly planned and methodically carried out, this strategy yields excellent results.

Popularity of their so-called “Russian Divers” has greatly increased. This success has attracted Invicta competitors. And first of them all are Chinese “pirates”, absolute evil for

all brands. Invicta does not conceal that their “Russian Divers” are being produced in South

East Asia with slight usage of some Swiss and American components. And naturally as a

second wave, a wide stream of primitive “Russian Divers” fakes appears now here and

there."

So is there any validity to this? Is this simply a case of sour grapes?

I would like to purchase an original 1959 Invicta, are these difficult to find?

Thanks

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#3

08-03-2010, 10:49 PM

Chascomm Senior Member

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Posts: 154

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmt

I would like to purchase an original 1959 Invicta, are these difficult to find?

So far as I'm aware, none have surfaced since Invicta launched their Russian Diver series.

There was one photo posted on these forums showing an Invicta beside a watch that was claimed to be either a 1959 Invicta or an original Zlatoust watch (I don't recall which)

however the details of the watch matched those of the 'Tourist Diver' replicas. Interestingly

the above article identifies the source of the Tourist Divers as being St Petersberg, not

Zlatoust as has been popularly understood until now.

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#4

08-03-2010, 10:54 PM

WatchGeeek Senior Member

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Interesting information on Russian Diver. Thanks.

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#5

08-03-2010, 11:31 PM

kmt Junior Member New Geek

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Chascomm So far as I'm aware, none have surfaced since Invicta launched their Russian Diver series.

There was one photo posted on these forums showing an Invicta beside a watch that was

claimed to be either a 1959 Invicta or an original Zlatoust watch (I don't recall which) however the details of the watch matched those of the 'Tourist Diver' replicas. Interestingly

the above article identifies the source of the Tourist Divers as being St Petersberg, not

Zlatoust as has been popularly understood until now.

Yea, I found that interesting as well - even the Russians copy the Zlatoust Russian diver.

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#6

08-04-2010, 05:21 AM

X-James Senior Member Senior Geek

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 278

I'm sorry but why does it seem that everyone wants to sling the garbage upon Invicta like that.

I think Eyal's lawyers should contact that magazine and have them print a retraction for the

slanderous things they have said about his company and what is this garbage about some American businessman buying the company in 1991? I thought Invicta has been a Lalo

family business since way back in the day with the talk about his Grandmother and the

Russians approaching her about the original Russian Diver watch.

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#7

08-04-2010, 05:25 AM

DPM Senior Member Super Geek

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Posts: 1,079 Real Name: Dan

Cool article! Thanks for sharing. If only 100 of the original were made 50 years ago.. I would

assume that it would be very hard to find an original and if so very expensive. Good luck,

welcome to the forum, and keep us informed in your quest!

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#8

08-04-2010, 05:39 AM

sunaru Senior Member Senior Geek

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Quote:

Originally Posted by X-James I'm sorry but why does it seem that everyone wants to sling the garbage upon Invicta like

that.

I think Eyal's lawyers should contact that magazine and have them print a retraction for the slanderous things they have said about his company and what is this garbage about

some American businessman buying the company in 1991? I thought Invicta has been a

Lalo family business since way back in the day with the talk about his Grandmother and

the Russians approaching her about the original Russian Diver watch.

thats what we were all told at one point, but it seems that is not so.. so it seems that maybe

his family bought the invicta name in 91..

Quote:

Invicta Watch Group is a Florida-based watch repair company, trading on the name, but a distinct entity from the company founded in 1837 by Raphael Picard

in La Chaux-de-fonds, Switzerland. The Picard family owned and operated the

company until 1991, when the company was purchased by a United States-based

investment company. The corporate headquarters were relocated to Hollywood, Florida, where the company also operates its service call center. Eyal Lalo, former

head of Invicta marketing in South America, is the CEO of the company and

frequently appears on televised ShopNBC programs,

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#9

08-04-2010, 05:44 AM

X-James Senior Member

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Quote:

Originally Posted by sunaru thats what we were all told at one point, but it seems that is not so.. so it seems that

maybe his family bought the invicta name in 91..

First we were told they were Swiss Made and then that they were diamonds and now this

along with other things ... just where does it all end?

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#10

08-04-2010, 05:48 AM

unclefixit Senior Member

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The article is abit misleading, but this is nothing new in regard to the model #2625 Russian Diver.

This is from a post I responded to acouple of months ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrblue

Im thinking that the most rare may be one of the fifty original RD's made by Eyal's

grandmother for the russian navy fleet ..... anyone have that one ?? .. Yeah, right ? ....... could be true though !! ..

MB

The number was 100... not 50 as you've mentioned in your posts.

The Russian navy brass wanted for themselves a Swiss Made version of the

standard issue watch used by their fleet hard hat divers.

Invicta was granted/won the contract to build 100 Swiss Made "Russian Divers" watches for the navy brass...Eyal Lalo's grandmother was running Invicta at that

time.

Fast forward to current times...as a gift for bringing Invicta back to health as it were, Eyal's grandmother gave to him one of those original Swiss Made in 1959,

100 that she still had in her possesion.

Eyal, with his grandmothers blessing disassymbled and "blue printed" (my term)

that watch. With this information he went into the building of what we now know as the

Invicta "1959 Original Russian Diver" model #2625 which was released in 2004.

Which FYI is actually smaller in size than any of the "1959, 100" thus making those

original 100 very collectable indeed.

BTW, Eyal owns two of the 100, the one his grandmother gave him and a

nonfunctioning piece which was seen on SNBC in 2009.

And this from three months ago.

My response was to a picture posted of a modern Zaltoust replica.

Larry... That is not an Invicta made piece.

It's one of many that are produced and patterned after the than Russian Navy

"Military issue" divers watch which was made by the Zaltoust watch company in

Russia. The "Military issue" piece is what Invicta, in the late 1950's, was asked to build, in

Swiss form and limited number (The 1959 "100").

Approxiamently a decade ago now, Eyal Lalo was gifted one of those "1959 Swiss

Made 100" Russian Divers...his grandmother gave it to him. It was this "1959 original" Swiss Made Invicta Russian Diver, that with the

blessings of his grandmother, Eyal had disassyembeled, measured and thuroughly

examined in order to build (downsized btw) the now famous model #2625 "Invicta

1959 Original Russian Diver", which was released in 2004.

A side note here...Eyal owns two of the "1959 100", one in pristine working

condition (grandmothers gift) and the other not.

Both of which have been shown at different times on SNBC

And this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jskelton OMG I am so tired of that guy's uninformed rants, it's actually sickening (not Franky, but the

source he posted it from)...

A couple months before the watch ever even DEBUTED, I had written a review on it. This

was before I came to ShopNBC, before I even met Eyal. I was a mod at WUS on the old Invicta forms we had there.

The story never "changed" as this guy claims, it's right there in my review from August of

2004. Maybe you've read it... it has been housed on Invictas website for SIX YEARS. It only recently came down when they redesigned their website. All of the reviews that were

displayed at invictawatch.com were mine, and the full story of the Invicta Russian Diver

was there.... so if there was ever any confusion, that confusion was created by others... not

Invicta, not myself, not anyone representing them at ShopNBC either.

For whatever reason I remember people twisting Eyal's words around when he would air one

of the newer RD designs and reference "our original Russian Diver design" as meaning that

Invicta originally designed the Russian Diver.... Eyal NEVER said that. If we aired a Quinotaur, he would talk about how it was based off of the original design of Invicta's RD...

not that Invicta originally created the RD.

I don't have the archive of my old review anywhere, but perhaps one of our members does.

Jim...might this be the review you're speaking of...

Click on the link, scroll down and take a look folks.

http://www.shopnbc.com/PRODUCT/?trac...h-_-family-_-N

And Jim's response...

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclefixit

Jim...might this be the review you're speaking of...

Click on the link, scroll down and take a look folks. http://www.shopnbc.com/PRODUCT/?trac...h-_-family-_-N

Yes, but sadly, that was edited, my original review that was on Invictas site (and by the way on WUS) was longer and more detailed.

Last edited by unclefixit; 08-04-2010 at 06:22 AM. Reason: Added info...using the search function

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#11

08-04-2010, 06:23 AM

flintlock Senior Member

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I think this watch is Awesome. What do you Geeks think?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

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#12

08-04-2010, 08:31 AM

kmt Junior Member

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Posts: 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclefixit The article is abit misleading, but this is nothing new in regard to the model

#2625 Russian Diver.

This is from a post I responded to acouple of months ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrblue

Im thinking that the most rare may be one of the fifty original RD's made by Eyal's grandmother for the russian navy fleet ..... anyone have that one ?? .. Yeah, right ? .......

could be true though !! ..

MB

The number was 100... not 50 as you've mentioned in your posts.

The Russian navy brass wanted for themselves a Swiss Made version of the

standard issue watch used by their fleet hard hat divers. Invicta was granted/won the contract to build 100 Swiss Made "Russian Divers"

watches for the navy brass...Eyal Lalo's grandmother was running Invicta at that

time.

Fast forward to current times...as a gift for bringing Invicta back to health as it

were, Eyal's grandmother gave to him one of those original Swiss Made in 1959,

100 that she still had in her possesion.

Eyal, with his grandmothers blessing disassymbled and "blue printed" (my term) that watch.

With this information he went into the building of what we now know as the

Invicta "1959 Original Russian Diver" model #2625 which was released in 2004.

Which FYI is actually smaller in size than any of the "1959, 100" thus making those original 100 very collectable indeed.

BTW, Eyal owns two of the 100, the one his grandmother gave him and a

nonfunctioning piece which was seen on SNBC in 2009.

And this from three months ago.

My response was to a picture posted of a modern Zaltoust replica.

Larry... That is not an Invicta made piece. It's one of many that are produced and patterned after the than Russian Navy

"Military issue" divers watch which was made by the Zaltoust watch company in

Russia.

The "Military issue" piece is what Invicta, in the late 1950's, was asked to build, in Swiss form and limited number (The 1959 "100").

Approxiamently a decade ago now, Eyal Lalo was gifted one of those "1959 Swiss

Made 100" Russian Divers...his grandmother gave it to him.

It was this "1959 original" Swiss Made Invicta Russian Diver, that with the

blessings of his grandmother, Eyal had disassyembeled, measured and thuroughly examined in order to build (downsized btw) the now famous model

#2625 "Invicta 1959 Original Russian Diver", which was released in 2004.

A side note here...Eyal owns two of the "1959 100", one in pristine working

condition (grandmothers gift) and the other not. Both of which have been shown at different times on SNBC

And this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jskelton

OMG I am so tired of that guy's uninformed rants, it's actually sickening (not Franky, but

the source he posted it from)...

A couple months before the watch ever even DEBUTED, I had written a review on it. This

was before I came to ShopNBC, before I even met Eyal. I was a mod at WUS on the old

Invicta forms we had there.

The story never "changed" as this guy claims, it's right there in my review from August of

2004. Maybe you've read it... it has been housed on Invictas website for SIX YEARS. It

only recently came down when they redesigned their website. All of the reviews that were

displayed at invictawatch.com were mine, and the full story of the Invicta Russian Diver was there.... so if there was ever any confusion, that confusion was created by others...

not Invicta, not myself, not anyone representing them at ShopNBC either.

For whatever reason I remember people twisting Eyal's words around when he would air one of the newer RD designs and reference "our original Russian Diver design" as

meaning that Invicta originally designed the Russian Diver.... Eyal NEVER said that. If we

aired a Quinotaur, he would talk about how it was based off of the original design of

Invicta's RD... not that Invicta originally created the RD.

I don't have the archive of my old review anywhere, but perhaps one of our members

does.

Jim...might this be the review you're speaking of...

Click on the link, scroll down and take a look folks.

http://www.shopnbc.com/PRODUCT/?trac...h-_-family-_-N

And Jim's response...

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclefixit

Jim...might this be the review you're speaking of... Click on the link, scroll down and take a look folks.

http://www.shopnbc.com/PRODUCT/?trac...h-_-family-_-N

Yes, but sadly, that was edited, my original review that was on Invictas site (and by the

way on WUS) was longer and more detailed.

Thank you for all these quotations, but they are a bit hard to follow - perhaps because of the

way they are written, or just being snippets of the original posts.

I would very much like to see the two original Russian Divers, does anyone have pictures or videos from the shows?

I do have some questions about the originals: How did Eyal's grandmother give him two of

the original 100 if they were given to the Soviet Navy? Did she only give them 98 of the 100,

and keep two?

Also, the article I quoted above mainly focuses on the Zlatoust diver, but also states that the

entire premise of Invicta's involvement (apart from any contact with Zlatoust) is false: Quote:

The tall tale, which was chosen for promoting the so-called “Russian Diver” line was very interesting. They alleged that in 1959 the Soviet Navy General Headquarters chose Invicta

as the best among other Swiss watch companies and, thus, the company was

commissioned to make a limited edition of 100 dive watches, whether as prize watches for

the best Navy divers or to compare the quality of Swiss watches to that of Soviet ones.

Someone posted earlier that a picture of one of the original watches exists, does anyone

have a link?

Thanks

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#13

08-04-2010, 08:34 AM

gwing Senior Member True WatchGeek

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Posts: 7,293 Real Name: Greg

A nice little read about RD's thanks for the info. __________________

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#14

08-04-2010, 08:37 AM

kmt Junior Member

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Quote:

Originally Posted by flintlock

I think this watch is Awesome. What do you Geeks think?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

This is one of the counterfeit watches referred to in the Russian magazine article, and was

apparently made in St. Petersburg. The factory name printed on the box is misspelled; it should be "Zlatoustovski", not "Zlatousovsky" (missing the second "t").

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#15

08-04-2010, 08:42 AM

BigJoe Original Past Ambassador True WatchGeek

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Thanks for the read very interesting and informative. __________________

Big Joe like's watches and good friends.

Take care and be safe. [ Big Joe ]

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#16

08-04-2010, 08:49 AM

imawatchgeek Senior Member Veteran Geek

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Posts: 826 Real Name: Mark

Wow, Invicta must be doing something right, they have so many haters...

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#17

08-04-2010, 10:15 AM

sanlover99 Senior Member Senior Geek

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not a surprise to me

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#18

08-04-2010, 10:24 AM

bigwatchking1 Senior Member Master WatchGeek

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nice article,,to find a russian diver from 1959 might takes some work,,but i hope you do

,,that would be a grail

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#19

08-04-2010, 10:48 AM

kmt Junior Member

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bigwatchking1 nice article,,to find a russian diver from 1959 might takes some work,,but i hope you do

,,that would be a grail

Yes, and I am still hopeful, even though the evidence thus far indicates that the watches

might not have actually existed.

Does anyone have a picture or more information?

Thanks

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#20

08-04-2010, 10:59 AM

jakisbck Member

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Posts: 34

The Bad thing about this is even when folks try to supply others with good information

(reputable information) others still say it aint so. No wayyyyyyyyy then later on they found

out it was right they try to jump on the band wagon after the fight is over. Buyer beware buyer shop wisely............................................ ..................... Invicta has made some

exceptional watches and i for one have bought several bck in the day and even up to now

but im selective as to what I buy. Once the smoke clears/hype then I do my evaluation.

$100-$200 is my limit

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#21

08-04-2010, 11:05 AM

Hotspur Senior Member

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bigwatchking1

nice article,,to find a russian diver from 1959 might takes some work,,but i hope you do

,,that would be a grail

Easy to accomplish - simply offer $20k for a piece with proper provenance (rock solid

history, identification and certification) and just see what comes knockin' (you don't have to actually buy it).

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#22

08-04-2010, 12:15 PM

Runnin' Ute Senior Member

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Even if it Invicta never built those 100 watches for the Russian Navy, so what? . At the very

least the Russian Diver as we know it today was inspired by a Russian Diver's watch that

was built during that time frame.

The likelihood of one of those "Original" 1959 watches as built by Invicta (assuming the

story is true) still exists has to be awfully slim. Think about it - 100 pieces and 50+ years.

The odds are against such an animal still around have to be astronomical against a so called

original still being around. Watches die, and are not always repaired but rather tossed into the round file and this is probably the casein this instance.

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#23

08-04-2010, 12:30 PM

kmt Junior Member

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Runnin' Ute Even if it Invicta never built those 100 watches for the Russian Navy, so what?

<snip>

So what? It speaks to honesty and integrity. If the story is not true, then that is a problem.

As Eyal is reported to have two originals, a nice detailed photo-essay here would put the

matter to rest, and be of considerable historical value.

Additionally, Zlatoust is coming out with a limited run of ~90 pieces of their original 1950's

design. It would be really cool if Invicta did the same thing with an exact reissue of their

original 1959 design.

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#24

08-04-2010, 12:37 PM

Lunerdustbunnies Senior Member

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That is a very interesting read. Thanks bring it to our attention.

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#25

08-04-2010, 01:07 PM

jskelton WatchGeeks Owner

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I am continually amazed at the assumptions that fly around concerning the Invicta Russian Diver and its history.

I was alerted once again that this topic was popping up all over the place, but I'm surprised

to see it here at WGs since this has all been discussed before. Apparently outside of WGs, reading comprehension is an acquired skill, and apparently better skills are required. I'll

explain it again.

Back in early 2004 as I was moderating the Invicta Forum at another website, and not affiliated with Invicta, I was able to wrangle Eyal in for a pair of forum-exclusive interviews.

During this process he and I discussed the recent reviews and photo work I had been doing

on the watches I owned. I asked if I could do reviews of upcoming products before their

official release, and he agreed.

In September of 2004, a few months later, I received a package containing the COSC Lupah,

Russian Diver and a couple others I cannot recall at this time. I wrote my review and posted

it toward the end of September of 2004 about a month before I was even approached by

ShopNBC to become a host. Because of this timing, my approach to presenting this watch never changed from my wording in the published review... so there should be no

misunderstanding if you have seen my presentations of this series of watches.

As posted on Invicta's website for 5 years and still on the archived WUS website is my original review. All information was clearly conveyed, and I will repeat some of it here so

others may benefit...

In 1959 Invicta was approached by the Russian Naval Fleet and a request was made for a Swiss Made version of their Russian Diver (...of THEIR Russian Diver... designed in Russia by

Russians....) as presentation pieces for their officers. 100 were contracted to be made.

Invicta has never claimed, nor have I ever claimed that Invicta created the original design.

Zlatoust was and always will be the originator of the design.

Around 2002 Eyal's grandmother gave him one of the originals (we brought it on-air for

EVERY RD presentation for about 6 months in that debut year), and he fell in love with the

concept. He scaled it down a little in size, changed the text on the dial to reflect "Invicta"

(with the backwards "N" which Eyal was informed, possibly in error, that would read Invicta's name), and produced it in Switzerland with the Unitas mechanical movement.

I can only surmise that the confusions we keep hearing over and over come from Eyal's

presentations of more current versions. Eyal often refers back to his 2004 RD when talking about the newer designs, and trying to relay the history of this watch in just a few seconds

(it's not like we have a full hour to recount entire histories for each watch we sell). He says

that whatever new model "is based on our original Russian Diver design..." which simply

refers back to the 2004, and 1959 Invicta built Russian Divers. He is NOT saying that he, or

anyone at Invicta at any time created the original design for the Russian Diver.

I know here at WG we have a lot of smart folks, but for those outside of WGs that will be

dissecting my post... I made sure to type it r-e-a-l-l-y slowly, and used small words to ease

in the digestion of the facts.

Now onto the article in question. Here is a direct response for everyone:

"You can ask: but where is a mention about Invicta? Nowhere. There is no place for Invicta

in the real history behind Zlatoust dive watches.

True. Invicta has no ties with the Zlatoust factory, or the original design of the

Russian Diver pre-dating the Swiss made variation in 1959. Invicta has never

claimed otherwise.

Of course, it is not accidental that in 2003 Invicta watch company began to promote their

watch line called “Russian Diver” and made them in the same style as famous Zlatoust 191-

ChS diver watches. As for the purposefulness of Invicta watches, they are more decorative then really functional pieces seriously being inferior to Zlatoust 191-ChS ones in this point.

Invictas being more for decoration than for function... that's a bit of opinion really and not a fact.

Invicta is a Swiss watch company and is well-known from the middle of 19th century. In 1991 it was bought by American businessmen, who began to promote a very aggressive

marketing strategy for the brand.

The tall tale, which was chosen for promoting the so-called “Russian Diver” line was very interesting.

There is no tall tale, the history was clearly defined in my review back in 2004, and none of the claims made in this article were actually made by either Invicta, or

myself.

They alleged that in 1959 the Soviet Navy General Headquarters chose Invicta as the best

among other Swiss watch companies and, thus, the company was commissioned to make a

limited edition of 100 dive watches, whether as prize watches for the best Navy divers or to

compare the quality of Swiss watches to that of Soviet ones.

And where did this come from?? Again, this claim was never made by anyone at

Invicta or ShopNBC.

As for the design, they say that the design of these watches was discovered among

documents belonging to the grandmother of Eyal Lalo, the CEO of Invicta.

Who is "they"? No one at Invicta, nor ShopNBC has ever claimed any of this about

'documents' or anything related to the design. I clearly detailed that Eyal's

grandmother gave Eyal one of the original watches... and he even brought it on-air for about 6 months straight. This is more fabrication from our friend: The Internet.

According to their statements, the old sample was a thoroughly improved version and was

the only real prototype of all diver watches made in Zlatoust. And that’s why, as they

conclude, Invicta has "moral rights" to produce watches of this design. Of course, not a

single document or other serious evidence was introduced in order to prove it. All the

respected specialists display irony towards their tall tale.

The author asks for documentation for an example of the truth... where is HIS documentation that these claims he speaks of were ever made???? This entire

section is completely invalid as this claim was NEVER made.

Even the inscription on the dial of so-called “Russian Divers”, written intentionally (or maybe

just through ignorance?) with glaring mistake as "ИМФ СССР" instead of "ВМФ СССР",

indirectly show non-participation in creating the real Zlatoust diver watches. This type of a

“mistake” is often used by the pirate companies stealing other companies ideas.

However, this doesn’t prevent Invicta from selling thousands of watches because their

advertising strategy has worked out to influence average buyers who first buy a watch and

then develop interest in its authenticity.

Nowadays, the Invicta Russian Diver line numbers about thirty different models at the price

range between $150 to $2000 and the basic model of this line, a copy of the real Zlatoust

diver watch, Model 2625, with the price at $600.

Invicta actively promote their watches through Internet sale sites and ShopNBC TV channel.

Perfectly planned and methodically carried out, this strategy yields excellent results. Popularity of their so-called “Russian Divers” has greatly increased. This success has

attracted Invicta competitors. And first of them all are Chinese “pirates”, absolute evil for all

brands. Invicta does not conceal that their “Russian Divers” are being produced in South

East Asia with slight usage of some Swiss and American components. And naturally as a

second wave, a wide stream of primitive “Russian Divers” fakes appears now here and there."

So hopefully this helps to clear the air about the Invicta Russian Divers. It's a tired subject,

but based on the grossly erroneous information being passed around from forum to forum in

regards to what THEY say Invicta claimed, and this article... it was worth revisiting I suppose.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by charleswatts Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you have formed with

your viewers.

flintlock

Senior Member Veteran Geek

Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Hamilton

NJ Posts: 857

Real Name: Anthony

OK Then........I really like this watch. What do you

geeks think.....http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=S

TRK:MEWAX:IT

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#27

08-04-2010, 01:37 PM

Comancheseven Senior Member

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Location: Colorado Springs Colorado Posts: 159

Real Name: Dave

Thanks Jim, I know who to believe on this subject. And by the way I own a Invicta R/D and I

love it. And it's not a Swiss Made watch, I got it at SAMS Club for about $75.00

Again Thanks Jim Dave

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#28

08-04-2010, 01:44 PM

BabyDoc Senior Member

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Posts: 883 Real Name: Bill

Jim, thanks for the REAL STORY!

One think I don't understand, however, is why the Russian military would have chosen an American owned "Swiss company" to make the prestige versions of their standard issue navy

watches. Certainly, there were more prestigeous Swiss companies then, as there are now,

who could have made these watches. Other than the contract being awarded on the basis of

Invicta giving the lowest bid for these 100 watches, I wonder why they picked Invicta.

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#29

08-04-2010, 01:48 PM

jskelton WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek

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Posts: 15,272 Real Name: "Diamond Jim" Skelton

What I don't get is the fact that people are quoting things that have never been said, claiming that "the story has changed" when the only original story was what I wrote in 2004

and not one part of that has EVER changed in any statements by Invicta or myself.

Poeple just love to make stuff up, and if they say it enough... people believe it as fact. Yet my review pre-dates their BS by YEARS, and clearly refutes any of their embellishments.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by charleswatts Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you have formed with

your viewers.

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#30

08-04-2010, 01:56 PM

Bondson Senior Member Senior Geek

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Real Name: Mel

Wow. Invicta's rock!!!

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#31

08-04-2010, 02:02 PM

jskelton WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek

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Posts: 15,272 Real Name: "Diamond Jim" Skelton

I was asked to comment on the recent interview with the folks at Zlatoust.

It appears somoene told Zlatoust that Invicta had made the claim that they had in some

fashion partnered with Zlatoust in creating the Russian Divers. NO such claim was ever

made... where is the proof of this claim? Where is it documented?

Of course Zlatoust says there never has been any affiliation between their esteemed

organization and Invicta. Of course not... no one speaking with any authority on the subject

ever claimed that there was... I am baffled as to where this claim even came from.

Ya gotta love the internet.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by charleswatts

Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you have formed with

your viewers.

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#32

08-04-2010, 02:15 PM

kmt Junior Member

Join Date: Jun 2010

Posts: 16

New Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by jskelton

In 1959 Invicta was approached by the Russian Naval Fleet and a request was made for a

Swiss Made version of their Russian Diver (...of THEIR Russian Diver... designed in Russia by Russians....) as presentation pieces for their officers. 100 were contracted to be made.

Invicta has never claimed, nor have I ever claimed that Invicta created the original design.

Zlatoust was and always will be the originator of the design.

Around 2002 Eyal's grandmother gave him one of the originals (we brought it on-air for EVERY RD presentation for about 6 months in that debut year), and he fell in love with the

concept. He scaled it down a little in size, changed the text on the dial to reflect "Invicta"

(with the backwards "N" which Eyal was informed, possibly in error, that would read

Invicta's name), and produced it in Switzerland with the Unitas mechanical movement.

<snip>

Thanks for this fantastic response, Jim.

I admit that I am one of those that have been confused by this, thanks for the clarification.

I am still confused about a few things:

Even if there was no participation with Zlatoust (disregarding Invicta's need for specifications

from the factory to produce a Swiss version), wouldn't Zlatoust at least be aware of the

contract with Invicta? I would think the article would at least acknowledge that, instead of a blanket denial of Invicta being "nowhere".

Were only 100 made?

If so, how does Eyal have one (or two, according to one post in this thread)?

Did the Russians return one (or more)?

Were extras made (and are they available!)?

Finally, as Eyal does have at least one, could we please have a detailed photo-essay of the

original posted here, for historical posterity? That would be a fantastic addition to the site,

and an exclusive piece of documentation for WG's to have.

Thanks

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#33

08-04-2010, 02:32 PM

richhoff Senior Member

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Posts: 3,396 Real Name: Rich

Thanks Jim for jumping on these mis-statements once again and offering clarity. __________________

Corvettes & Watches

Two Expensive Hobbies.

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#34

08-04-2010, 02:35 PM

QUANTICO SPEEDLOADERS Junior Member

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Posts: 17 Real Name: Harry

Diamond Jim!!!

Don't get hooked by these stories. I haven't been on this web site for a long time but the only story

about the Russian Diver that I ever heard was the one just you explained (in detail). That's why I

was confused when I read this thread. You are a funny and honest guy don't let these things bug

you. By the way I have two RDs and they are BAD A*S!!!

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hours, Shop NBC

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#35

08-04-2010, 02:43 PM

jskelton WatchGeeks Owner

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LOL, already the 'dark corners of the internet' are being torn inside out with more rants and

multiple exclamation points to drive their fanatical points home .

Fact: The only claims made were in my 2004 review which pre-dates any of the false claims

we're seeing now. The facts presented in my review are the only facts used in the

presentations. Period. All these other supposed 'claims' were made up by others, or

misunderstood by others, and repeated so often it seems to feel like the truth.

Fact: There's not one video or document to back up any of the statements made by others

about the supposed "claims".

Fact: MY document has been accessible to the public since 2004.

They can rant all they want, but facts trump rants, sorry but that's simply the way it is. Add

this to the bucket of other claims made about me, ShopNBC, Invicta, Michael, etc... not a

single DOCUMENT, just a lot of "I heard this" or "I talked to/reviewed a person who had direct knowledge of..." but no actual proof, just hearsay. Circumstantial at best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmt

Thanks for this fantastic response, Jim.

I admit that I am one of those that have been confused by this, thanks for the clarification.

No worries. With so many stories being spread around, it's no wonder so many

are truly confused.

I am still confused about a few things:

Were only 100 made?

Yes, this is what Eyal told me back before I wrote the review in 2004.

If so, how does Eyal have one (or two, according to one post in this thread)?

Eyal has two now. One is kept at Invicta in Florida, one is kept in his other home here in MN.

Did the Russians return one (or more)?

I have no idea, I've never asked.

Were extras made (and are they available!)?

If there are, I am unaware.

Finally, as Eyal does have at least one, could we please have a detailed photo-essay of the

original posted here, for historical posterity? That would be a fantastic addition to the site,

and an exclusive piece of documentation for WG's to have.

I have talked to Eyal about this for a while, and we never remember when he is

here. I'll try next time to run over and grab it to shoot. I wish someone, anyone

had a single video from anytime between Oct 2004 and about June of 2005 because we aired the orioginal so many times I can't even remember.

Thanks

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Quote:

Originally Posted by charleswatts Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you have formed with

your viewers.

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#36

08-04-2010, 02:49 PM

kb64 Senior Member Senior Geek

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Location: Des Moines IA Posts: 175

Real Name: Ken

Jim, Thanks for once again clearing the air on some of the mis-information that gets posted

on these forums. I certainly don't begrudge a fellow geeks right to want to verify info that

may surface regarding watch brands, but I'm glad we have someone who can "set the record

straight". Thanks for taking the time and by the way the watch I'm wearing while typing this post is my RD Limited Racing Edition.

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COLLECTING WATCHES AND RETIRED!

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#37

08-04-2010, 02:50 PM

MATTNATTI Senior Member Super Geek

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Location: Ohio Posts: 1,435

its amazing what people can read and hear into things jim.

__________________

Did you see that? Do they all got hedges like that? Do they?

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#38

08-04-2010, 03:00 PM

jskelton WatchGeeks Owner

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Even more amazing to see that they insist on continuing it even years and years later.

Oh well, some have lives, some obsess about other's lives I suppose.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by charleswatts

Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you have formed with your viewers.

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#39

08-04-2010, 03:01 PM

kmt Junior Member New Geek

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by jskelton

I have talked to Eyal about this for a while, and we never remember when he is

here. I'll try next time to run over and grab it to shoot. I wish someone, anyone

had a single video from anytime between Oct 2004 and about June of 2005 because we aired the orioginal so many times I can't even remember.

Thanks again for the further clarification, Jim.

Eyal does have two. You posted earlier that one was given to him by his grandmother, but

do you know where the other one came from?

I know this is a long shot, but would he be willing to sell one?

Would it be possible to forward this thread to Eyal, so that the request for the photo-essay is not forgotten?

I know each of these questions could be seen as impertinent, and I apologize if so. I would

really love to obtain one of these, but more importantly, I think this is a fantastic opportunity to add some historical documentation on the Russian Diver, and most

importantly, put the provenance issue to bed once and for all.

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#40

08-04-2010, 03:07 PM

daveCFPrez Senior Member

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ANYTHING is for sale... For the right price = )

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmt

I know this is a long shot, but would he be willing to sell one?

__________________

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CFPrez

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#41

08-04-2010, 03:17 PM

garyh Senior Member

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Location: Missouri Posts: 753

Real Name: Gary

OP thanks for the posting as i found it informative and diodn't start collecting Invicta's or any

watch for that matter until MArch 2009. So i was never privy to the history or debate of the

russian diver. I personally love the design and own around 16 variations of the russian diver line. i will continue to buy these models as i love the size and look and appreciate the

quaility and price point of these models.

Jim thank you for taking the time (again) to clean up the history of the piece andthe article and bring additional facts to light. I agree for us new rd collectors it was worth your time and

effort. IMHO.

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#42

08-04-2010, 03:46 PM

kmt Junior Member New Geek

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Posts: 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by jskelton

I wish someone, anyone had a single video from anytime between Oct 2004 and about

June of 2005 because we aired the orioginal so many times I can't even remember.

Is this it?

I found it in this thread: Original Russian Diver PROOF?

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#43

08-04-2010, 04:38 PM

reserveman Senior Member

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Location: Las Vegas Nv. Posts: 3,253

Real Name: Ralph Williams

It funny how when companies are doing better than other a bunch of untruths come out. All

I know is I have 9 of them from the 7750 to the unitas to square ones to the Flame Limited

Edition and love them all. Thats what I care about, How I like them. Way to go Jim and Eyal.

Can you make an auto 3 hand with either a sand stone or one of those other mineral one

like the Invicta 11's but with the smaller crown gard and either interchangable or the

SS/poly bracelet. I'd be an owner

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#44

08-04-2010, 07:26 PM

Chascomm Senior Member Senior Geek

Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Western Australia

Posts: 154

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabyDoc Jim, thanks for the REAL STORY!

One think I don't understand, however, is why the Russian military would have chosen an

American owned "Swiss company" to make the prestige versions of their standard issue

navy watches. Certainly, there were more prestigeous Swiss companies then, as there are

now, who could have made these watches. Other than the contract being awarded on the basis of Invicta giving the lowest bid for these 100 watches, I wonder why they picked

Invicta.

In 1959 Invicta was a Swiss owned company, and I understand that they had some prior

experience with production of watches that have been issued to armed forces. Additionally it

has often been claimed that Soviet elites favoured Swiss watches over the local product for

reasons of prestige, however this seems to have not been anywhere near as widespread as has been popularly assumed in the West. Certainly the issuing of a Swiss watch (as opposed

to private purchase) would be unique in the USSR at this time. And it is the uniqueness of

the situation that has generated the skepticism.

There is only so far that you can verify or disprove the history purely on the basis of

probabilities. It ultimately comes down to verifiable documentation. Jim referred to a review

on another site. If it is the site I am thinking of then the review may have been lost in a fatal

server crash since then. If anybody has a copy to re-post here, that would clear up the first

question about the original Invicta claims regarding the Russian Diver.

The next thing would be to get some good photos of the 1959 watch here on this forum.

Again, surely there is somebody with at least a screen capture just for starters. The only

photo that I have seen here was one of those watches now identified as originating from St Petersberg. I do not know the context in which it was presented on the show. Far better if

Jim can make arrangements with Mr Lalo, so that this story could be put to bed for good.

I don't believe that the heat generated by this matter can be brushed off as 'Invicta hating'. The crucial difference between the Invicta Russian Diver and all the other branded 191-ChS

homages out there (Volodaz, Volna, Black Shark, Gruen Soviet, etc, etc) is that Invicta is the

only legitimate brand making claims of an historical connection. Popular circulation of the

idea that Invicta designed the original Russian Diver in 1959 (including many posts here)

has met with a backlash from those who recognize the improbability of that. Jim has made

clear where Invicta really stand on the issue, but once people get fired up about something, well you can see how that goes. Thus the desire by many Invicta admirers to see the 1959

watch here and have it explained for what it really was.

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#45

08-04-2010, 08:15 PM

kmt Junior Member New Geek

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Chascomm

The only photo that I have seen here was one of those watches now identified as

originating from St Petersberg. I do not know the context in which it was presented on the

show. Far better if Jim can make arrangements with Mr Lalo, so that this story could be put

to bed for good.

Thank you for following up on your initial post.

To make this point clear, it is your opinion that the image of the Russian Diver as portrayed

on ShopNBC, is one of the recent tourist pieces made in St. Petersburg, as per the Russian

article you linked to in your OP, correct?

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#46

08-04-2010, 08:41 PM

NCEngineer Member Member Geek

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 89

I used to own the original Invicta Russian diver years ago. To be

honest, I found it to be an improvement on the original Russian

design. Unfortunately, there was an issue with the movement that

surfaced some time after I purchased the watch and I sold it to

someone whom was willing to get it repaired. But, really, it was an

awesome looking watch and, occasionally, I still hunt for it on eBay

and the like in the hopes that I can own it again.

As far as Invicta's claims on the origins of the watch, I don't put

much stock in them. When I owned the watch, I searched the

internet, as well as books on Russian watches, high and low, in order to find an independent, or non-Invicta corroboration of the items

presented as facts. I have yet to see any. That's the only reason I

maintain doubt on the story.

If it is untrue, then we can only speculate where it all began. It is

absolutely possible that the discrepancy was inserted decades ago

such that anyone presenting the claim today has a fairly valid reason

to believe it to be true. Yet, this does not make it true.

On this specific subject, I would like to see independent evidence, if

any existed. I'm a man of little faith with regards of the motives and

reasons of people I don't really know - even charming and well

presented public figures. There are many well-respected Russian

watch experts out there. If not one of them comes out and backs this

story with actual documented evidence (not just their opinion), my

opinion will remain as is on this watch. And, I don't buy the

conspiracy theories that all these experts must all have some ulterior

motives.

Until then, I still think the watch is a great design improvement (the

original Invicta version) and the lume on it is absolutely out of this

world. Whoever owns one is a lucky collector, regardless of any

controversy surrounding this watch.

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#47

08-04-2010, 08:46 PM

sanlover99 Senior Member

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Posts: 224

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmt

Is this it?

I found it in this thread: Original Russian Diver PROOF?

that watch doesnt look like it's from 1959...

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#48

08-04-2010, 08:48 PM

Chascomm Senior Member

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Location: Western Australia Posts: 154

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmt

Thank you for following up on your initial post.

To make this point clear, it is your opinion that the image of the Russian Diver as portrayed on ShopNBC, is one of the recent tourist pieces made in St. Petersburg, as per

the Russian article you linked to in your OP, correct?

Only in the photo that I saw. There may be other watches in other photos that I did not see.

Here is the thread: http://watchgeeks.net/showthread.php?t=37306

You will notice that I incorrectly identified the origin of the watch as Zlatoust, although we

now know those recent Russian-sourced homage pieces were made in St Petersberg.

And here is the photo in question:

Perhaps somebody else can offer an explanation of the context of the photo.

Chascomm

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#49

08-04-2010, 08:55 PM

kmt Junior Member New Geek

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chascomm

Only in the photo that I saw. There may be other watches in other photos that I did not

see.

Here is the thread: http://watchgeeks.net/showthread.php?t=37306

You will notice that I incorrectly identified the origin of the watch as Zlatoust, although we

now know those recent Russian-sourced homage pieces were made in St Petersberg.

And here is the photo in question:

Perhaps somebody else can offer an explanation of the context of the photo.

Your photo isn't displaying for me, only the photobucket "this photo has been removed"

graphic.

What are your thoughts on this photo?:

Thanks

kmt

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#50

08-04-2010, 09:35 PM

unclefixit Senior Member

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Location: Universal City, Texas (N.E. of San Antonio) Posts: 1,602

Real Name: Jay

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmt

Your photo isn't displaying for me, only the photobucket "this photo has been removed"

graphic.

What are your thoughts on this photo?:

Thanks

KMT, the watch pictured on the right in this screen capture is of the second one, (Invicta made, 1959 / 100) that Eyal Lalo owns.

It's the one my posts were reffering to as being aired on SNBC in 2009.

Eyal Lalo obtained this one through his own searching...FYI as Eyal stated on air, it

is a non functioning watch.

louisvillelibertyinvicta Junior Member

New Geek

Join Date: Jul 2010

Posts: 9

I am fairly new to watch collecting even though I own more watches than most who have

been collecting for 5 to 10 years. What I have seen is the purist have went on a mission to destroy the reputation of Invicta by whatever means possible. Why? Because at one time

when they wore there $5000 watch they got all the glory in the boardroom, business lunch,

office, or in public settings. Now over the past several years the non-elites have taken their

glory and get all the comments and get the attention. Now the $5000 watch is being looked over and comments are being made and attention given to a Bolt or a Venom and to a

purist that is too much and the only thing they can do is try to ruin Invicta.

If some of the other watch makers want to enter the market and make watches in the $200

to $1200 price range that have designs that people want I am sure those of us in that particular market will buy from them. But I feel no need to try to damage a company or

individuals reputation if they decide not too. I am sorry that my Bolt draws more attention

than many watches that cost 10 to 20 times as much or my $130 Russian Diver which

seems to always draw interest just because people love the design and are amazed by the size, not realy sorry!!!! If the haters want to damage Invictas sales then I would suggest to

stop the bashing because it is doing nothing but shining the light on Invicta and when

people see them up close they become a fan and ignore the negatives and purchase their

first Invicta.

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#52

08-04-2010, 09:49 PM

kmt Junior Member

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Join Date: Jun 2010

Posts: 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclefixit

KMT, the watch pictured on the right in this screen capture is of the second one,

(Invicta made, 1959 / 100) that Eyal Lalo owns. It's the one my posts were reffering to as being aired on SNBC in 2009.

Eyal Lalo obtained this one through his own searching...FYI as Eyal stated on air,

it is a non functioning watch.

Thank you Jay, for verifying that this is indeed purported to being one of the original 100

1959 Invicta Russian divers presented to the Soviet Navy - this is indeed very illuminating

information.

Thanks

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#53

08-04-2010, 10:13 PM

Chascomm Senior Member

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Posts: 154

Quote:

Originally Posted by louisvillelibertyinvicta

I am fairly new to watch collecting even though I own more watches than most who have been collecting for 5 to 10 years. What I have seen is the purist have went on a mission to

destroy the reputation of Invicta by whatever means possible. Why? Because at one time

when they wore there $5000 watch they got all the glory in the boardroom, business

lunch, office, or in public settings. Now over the past several years the non-elites have taken their glory and get all the comments and get the attention. Now the $5000 watch is

being looked over and comments are being made and attention given to a Bolt or a Venom

and to a purist that is too much and the only thing they can do is try to ruin Invicta.

The problem is in this particular instance, the 'Purists' are those who have an interest in

Russian watches, rather than collectors of high-end famous name watches. Crying

'conspiracy!' makes no sense. As you said, Invicta can stand on its own merits. Let's face it, an authentic 191-ChS reproduction is never, ever going to be as wearable as the Invicta RD.

What people are interested in here, in this particular thread, is clarity about the history

behind the Russian Diver series. Progress is being made in that regard, I think.

For the record, I am not a 'hater'. I'm currently wearing a new Indian watch worth about $30. I don't buy brands for the prestige. I like Russian watches. I don't own a Russian Diver,

either Russian or Invicta, but this story interests me from an histroical perspective.

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#54

08-04-2010, 10:55 PM

louisvillelibertyinvicta Junior Member New Geek

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9

Understood

I understand your interest and in no way was I lumping everyone interested in this topic part

of the group I referred to as "Purist". I too have a interest in history and I think my frustration of constantly being "taken to the wood shed" by people wanting to enlighten me

on why I should not buy Invicta has blinded me from the history aspect.

I started collecting because I bought an Invicta, actualy a Russian Diver (model 4342) and fell in love with the different watches and with the value proposition Invicta offers. I am now

looking and purchasing other brands and it has become a passion that I cannot see ever

growing old. I need to come up with another word and not use "Purist" anymore to describe

the haters. Quote:

Originally Posted by Chascomm

The problem is in this particular instance, the 'Purists' are those who have an interest in

Russian watches, rather than collectors of high-end famous name watches. Crying

'conspiracy!' makes no sense. As you said, Invicta can stand on its own merits. Let's face it, an authentic 191-ChS reproduction is never, ever going to be as wearable as the Invicta

RD. What people are interested in here, in this particular thread, is clarity about the history

behind the Russian Diver series. Progress is being made in that regard, I think.

For the record, I am not a 'hater'. I'm currently wearing a new Indian watch worth about

$30. I don't buy brands for the prestige. I like Russian watches. I don't own a Russian

Diver, either Russian or Invicta, but this story interests me from an histroical perspective.

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#55

Yesterday, 12:29 AM

jskelton WatchGeeks Owner

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Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 15,272

Real Name: "Diamond Jim" Skelton

The picture on the screen cap is of the second one Eyal has shown. We have never discussed between us where he got that one.

Is it identical to the original we used to show on-air in 04? Not sure, never saw them side by

side to compare. All I do know is that the one shown in 04 was one of the original 1959 Invicta produced, Swiss versions of the RD design that Eyal got from his grandmother.

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Originally Posted by charleswatts Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you have formed with

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#56

Yesterday, 01:52 AM

NCEngineer Member Member Geek

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 89

Quote:

Originally Posted by louisvillelibertyinvicta I am fairly new to watch collecting even though I own more watches than most who have

been collecting for 5 to 10 years. What I have seen is the purist have went on a mission to

destroy the reputation of Invicta by whatever means possible. Why? Because at one time

when they wore there $5000 watch they got all the glory in the boardroom, business lunch, office, or in public settings. Now over the past several years the non-elites have

taken their glory and get all the comments and get the attention. Now the $5000 watch is

being looked over and comments are being made and attention given to a Bolt or a Venom

and to a purist that is too much and the only thing they can do is try to ruin Invicta.

What you describe above is, in my personal opinion, an unfounded

and over-dramatized generalization of the issue at hand. I'm not

convinced that there is some kind of conspiracy by "boardroom"

executives because their high-end brand watch now looks cheap

when compared to an Invicta.

"Purists", in this case and context, should refer to those that - for

reasons germane to their passion for a particular watch style, brand

or history - scrutinize every detail about whatever enters their realm

of expertise with regards to said watch.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a "purist" taking a particular

claim to task, even if that claim leans against the watch brand of

your choice. If the claim is verifiable, then truth will stand on its

own. If it is not, at best, we can assume that the claim is possible,

but unlikely (or, likely) - based on the veracity of whatever anecdotal

evidence is available - and leave it at that.

There is no conspiracy; it is just true watch enthusiasts being

cognizant that the world of watches is replete with legend, lore,

history and marketing. While all aspects of the four is important, it is

equally important to separate each of them accordingly.

NCEngineer

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#57

Yesterday, 04:30 AM

Chascomm Senior Member

Senior Geek

Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Western Australia

Posts: 154

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmt

Your photo isn't displaying for me, only the photobucket "this photo has been removed" graphic.

What are your thoughts on this photo?:

Thanks

Sorry about the dud link. In your photo, the black dial on the right has inscriptions on the dial consistent with the modern Russian reproductions. The roundness of the bezel top

matches that too, however that might just be the light.

If this is in fact one of the 1959 Invictas then by some strange chance, the St Petersberg crew must have picked up on the Invicta design just a few years before Invicta launched

their new Russian Diver series.

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#58

Yesterday, 08:20 AM

kmt Junior Member New Geek

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chascomm Sorry about the dud link. In your photo, the black dial on the right has inscriptions on the

dial consistent with the modern Russian reproductions. The roundness of the bezel top

matches that too, however that might just be the light.

If this is in fact one of the 1959 Invictas then by some strange chance, the St Petersberg

crew must have picked up on the Invicta design just a few years before Invicta launched

their new Russian Diver series.

Would it be fair to conclude that this is a recent St. Petersburg tourist watch?

Thanks

kmt

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#59

Yesterday, 08:38 AM

curiousgeorge Senior Member

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Join Date: Apr 2009

Location: Mpls Posts: 2,575

Real Name: George

A interesting thread and some good info. Being a ShopNbc watcher, Invicta collector for 10

years now, what Jim is saying on how this watch and it's background story were presented

has never changed. I guess what some are doubting is the story true about Eyal's grandma and if it ever happened. Here's a few more Invicta stories to look up on the quest for Invicta

knowledge. Did you know that Eyal Lalo actually beat Geraldo Rivera to Al Capones vault and

took the stash and used the money to re-start Invicta. That Eyal's grandfather worked at

Roswell at Area 51 and freed an alien from testing, which is why Invicta now has such easy

and cheap access to Meteorite. Eyal has found a community of Bigfoots and uses them for product testing, which explains the larger size watches. Eyal knows where the Loch Ness

monster is and is the basis of the SubAqua logo and series of dive watches. Reports are he

actually used Nessie to take the SubAqua IV down to the depths for authentic testing. Eyal

knows where Amelia Earhart is and they are going to collaborate on the ultimate pilots watch, but this is very hush hush. And most important Eyal has discovered the secrets of the

Bermuda Triangle. Which he has used to make many of our disposable incomes disappear

without a trace. Is any of this true. Who knows? It is the internet isn't it!

curiousgeorge

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#60

Yesterday, 08:51 AM

JIMZ Senior Member

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Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Boston Mass

Posts: 3,183 Real Name: Jim

Quote:

Originally Posted by flintlock

I think this watch is Awesome. What do you Geeks think?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Anthony,

It looks very interesting, but Helsinki Finland is far away if something is amiss, just

thinking out loud here. Again, any timepiece that sings to you is worth looking at though.

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#61

Yesterday, 01:05 PM

flintlock Senior Member Veteran Geek

Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Hamilton NJ Posts: 857

Real Name: Anthony

Thanks Jim. Ya I know, But I bought it anyway,LOL. I went though Paypal so if something is

wrong at lest I'll get my money back. I also know that it is NOT an original to the 1950's time frame. I DID find a Guy with an original in PA. that might sell me his original RD. I'll

post pic's on "look what i got" when I get it.

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#62

Yesterday, 01:10 PM

reserveman Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Join Date: Nov 2009

Location: Las Vegas Nv. Posts: 3,253

Real Name: Ralph Williams

All this conflick made me just buy the mechanical they had that there was 8 of. model 2625.

Was suppose to be on 1st hr of collector shows today.

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#63

Yesterday, 01:24 PM

kmt Junior Member

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Posts: 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by flintlock

I DID find a Guy with an original in PA. that might sell me his original RD. I'll post pic's on "look what i got" when I get it.

You found an original 1959 Invicta Russian Diver in PA? One of the original 100?

That is exciting news! I am eagerly looking forward to the photo's and hopefully you can get

the history and specifications (caliber, serial number, dimensions, weight, etc.) of the piece.

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#64

Yesterday, 02:31 PM

richhoff Senior Member

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Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Atmore, AL

Posts: 3,396 Real Name: Rich

Quote:

Originally Posted by curiousgeorge

A interesting thread and some good info. Being a ShopNbc watcher, Invicta collector for 10

years now, what Jim is saying on how this watch and it's background story were presented has never changed. I guess what some are doubting is the story true about Eyal's grandma

and if it ever happened. Here's a few more Invicta stories to look up on the quest for

Invicta knowledge. Did you know that Eyal Lalo actually beat Geraldo Rivera to Al Capones

vault and took the stash and used the money to re-start Invicta. That Eyal's grandfather

worked at Roswell at Area 51 and freed an alien from testing, which is why Invicta now has such easy and cheap access to Meteorite. Eyal has found a community of Bigfoots and uses

them for product testing, which explains the larger size watches. Eyal knows where the

Loch Ness monster is and is the basis of the SubAqua logo and series of dive watches.

Reports are he actually used Nessie to take the SubAqua IV down to the depths for authentic testing. Eyal knows where Amelia Earhart is and they are going to collaborate on

the ultimate pilots watch, but this is very hush hush. And most important Eyal has

discovered the secrets of the Bermuda Triangle. Which he has used to make many of our

disposable incomes disappear without a trace. Is any of this true. Who knows? It is the internet isn't it!

Now that is funny George........ __________________

Corvettes & Watches

Two Expensive Hobbies.

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#65

Yesterday, 03:00 PM

BabyDoc Senior Member

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Location: Beachwood, OHIO Posts: 883

Real Name: Bill

Quote:

Originally Posted by curiousgeorge

A interesting thread and some good info. Being a ShopNbc watcher, Invicta collector for 10 years now, what Jim is saying on how this watch and it's background story were presented

has never changed. I guess what some are doubting is the story true about Eyal's grandma

and if it ever happened. Here's a few more Invicta stories to look up on the quest for

Invicta knowledge. Did you know that Eyal Lalo actually beat Geraldo Rivera to Al Capones

vault and took the stash and used the money to re-start Invicta. That Eyal's grandfather worked at Roswell at Area 51 and freed an alien from testing, which is why Invicta now has

such easy and cheap access to Meteorite. Eyal has found a community of Bigfoots and uses

them for product testing, which explains the larger size watches. Eyal knows where the

Loch Ness monster is and is the basis of the SubAqua logo and series of dive watches. Reports are he actually used Nessie to take the SubAqua IV down to the depths for

authentic testing. Eyal knows where Amelia Earhart is and they are going to collaborate on

the ultimate pilots watch, but this is very hush hush. And most important Eyal has

discovered the secrets of the Bermuda Triangle. Which he has used to make many of our disposable incomes disappear without a trace. Is any of this true. Who knows? It is the

internet isn't it!

George, next to some of the stories here about the origins of the Invicta Russian Diver, your

story is the most creative and funiest I have seen here in a long time!

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#66

Yesterday, 03:38 PM

skiking22 Member Member Geek

Join Date: Mar 2010

Location: Bonney Lake, WA. Posts: 64

Real Name: Scott

BRAVO George!!!! I love a good smart-azz remark. Very well said!!!!

Scott

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When Hell freezes over I'll ski there too!!!!

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#67

Yesterday, 03:41 PM

louisvillelibertyinvicta Junior Member New Geek

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 9

You see I never said anything about high end watches being cheap nor did I say Invictas

quality was superior to any particular watch. What I said was they lost the glory meaning

that some cannot stand anything positive being said about Invicta and when something

positive is said a group of these people always feel the need to point out that Invicta is no

Rolex or Omega and go on to point out all the differences which no one will argure. I agree there is not a conspiracy but the fact is anyone who likes Invicta and says it will usualy

agree they get negative comments more often than not from this group of people not for

comparing or putting another brand down but for just stating a postive comment about

Invicta. Quote:

Originally Posted by NCEngineer

What you describe above is, in my personal opinion, an unfounded

and over-dramatized generalization of the issue at hand. I'm not

convinced that there is some kind of conspiracy by "boardroom"

executives because their high-end brand watch now looks cheap

when compared to an Invicta.

"Purists", in this case and context, should refer to those that - for

reasons germane to their passion for a particular watch style, brand or history - scrutinize every detail about whatever enters their

realm of expertise with regards to said watch.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a "purist" taking a

particular claim to task, even if that claim leans against the watch

brand of your choice. If the claim is verifiable, then truth will stand

on its own. If it is not, at best, we can assume that the claim is

possible, but unlikely (or, likely) - based on the veracity of

whatever anecdotal evidence is available - and leave it at that.

There is no conspiracy; it is just true watch enthusiasts being

cognizant that the world of watches is replete with legend, lore,

history and marketing. While all aspects of the four is important, it

is equally important to separate each of them accordingly.

louisvillelibertyinvicta

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#68

Yesterday, 04:01 PM

bwag829 Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Aug 2008

Location: West Springfield, MA Posts: 2,276

Real Name: Bill

This was a very interesting thread and well worth the time reading. Thanks all.

bwag829

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#69

Yesterday, 04:33 PM

TM Maker Senior Member

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Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: Chicagoland Posts: 1,405

Real Name: Rob

Quote:

Originally Posted by curiousgeorge

A interesting thread and some good info. Being a ShopNbc watcher, Invicta collector for 10

years now, what Jim is saying on how this watch and it's background story were presented

has never changed. I guess what some are doubting is the story true about Eyal's grandma

and if it ever happened. Here's a few more Invicta stories to look up on the quest for Invicta knowledge. Did you know that Eyal Lalo actually beat Geraldo Rivera to Al Capones

vault and took the stash and used the money to re-start Invicta. That Eyal's grandfather

worked at Roswell at Area 51 and freed an alien from testing, which is why Invicta now has

such easy and cheap access to Meteorite. Eyal has found a community of Bigfoots and uses them for product testing, which explains the larger size watches. Eyal knows where the

Loch Ness monster is and is the basis of the SubAqua logo and series of dive watches.

Reports are he actually used Nessie to take the SubAqua IV down to the depths for

authentic testing. Eyal knows where Amelia Earhart is and they are going to collaborate on the ultimate pilots watch, but this is very hush hush. And most important Eyal has

discovered the secrets of the Bermuda Triangle. Which he has used to make many of our

disposable incomes disappear without a trace. Is any of this true. Who knows? It is the

internet isn't it!

I had a feeling That Roswell aliens were involved in this somehow. You just can't trust those

little gray buggers!

TM Maker

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#70

Yesterday, 05:21 PM

flintlock Senior Member

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Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Hamilton NJ

Posts: 857 Real Name: Anthony

Well that broke it up George. LOL. Excellent.........

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#71

Today, 12:16 PM

kmt Junior Member New Geek

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chascomm

Sorry about the dud link. In your photo, the black dial on the right has inscriptions on the

dial consistent with the modern Russian reproductions. The roundness of the bezel top

matches that too, however that might just be the light.

If this is in fact one of the 1959 Invictas then by some strange chance, the St Petersberg

crew must have picked up on the Invicta design just a few years before Invicta launched

their new Russian Diver series.

I found this image by Jim showing what appears to be the exact same style of watch as in

the ShopNBC presentation:

Other than the missing hands in the image cap, they look identical.

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#72

Today, 06:22 PM

unclefixit Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Universal City, Texas (N.E. of San Antonio)

Posts: 1,602 Real Name: Jay

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmt I found this image by Jim showing what appears to be the exact same style of watch as in

the ShopNBC presentation:

Other than the missing hands in the image cap, they look identical.

The one on the left is the #2625 "Invicta 1959 Original Russian Diver" homage

(released 2004) we know today.

The one on the right looks alot like this 1970's-date. http://www.rugift.com/watches/russia...s-watch-18.htm

Here's some more material to read...

http://www.russianwatchguide.com/zla...olaz-diver.htm

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#73

Today, 07:47 PM

kmt Junior Member

New Geek

Join Date: Jun 2010

Posts: 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclefixit

The one on the left is the #2625 "Invicta 1959 Original Russian Diver" homage

(released 2004) we know today. The one on the right looks alot like this 1970's-date.

http://www.rugift.com/watches/russia...s-watch-18.htm

Here's some more material to read... http://www.russianwatchguide.com/zla...olaz-diver.htm

Thank you for the links. In your opinion, what are the differences between the RD in the screen cap (1959 Invicta RD), and the new image? Both appear to show the exact same

watch.

Thanks

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#74

Today, 07:59 PM

rhickey Senior Member

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Join Date: May 2009 Location: Altamonte Springs, FL

Posts: 413 Real Name: Rob

Quote:

Originally Posted by louisvillelibertyinvicta I am fairly new to watch collecting even though I own more watches than most who have

been collecting for 5 to 10 years. What I have seen is the purist have went on a mission to

destroy the reputation of Invicta by whatever means possible. Why? Because at one time

when they wore there $5000 watch they got all the glory in the boardroom, business

lunch, office, or in public settings. Now over the past several years the non-elites have taken their glory and get all the comments and get the attention. Now the $5000 watch is

being looked over and comments are being made and attention given to a Bolt or a Venom

and to a purist that is too much and the only thing they can do is try to ruin Invicta.

If some of the other watch makers want to enter the market and make watches in the

$200 to $1200 price range that have designs that people want I am sure those of us in

that particular market will buy from them. But I feel no need to try to damage a company

or individuals reputation if they decide not too. I am sorry that my Bolt draws more attention than many watches that cost 10 to 20 times as much or my $130 Russian Diver

which seems to always draw interest just because people love the design and are amazed

by the size, not realy sorry!!!! If the haters want to damage Invictas sales then I would

suggest to stop the bashing because it is doing nothing but shining the light on Invicta and

when people see them up close they become a fan and ignore the negatives and purchase their first Invicta.

I've yet to see an Invicta in the boardroom. To be honest I just see the usual suspects: Rolex, Omega, Tag etc.

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#75

Today, 08:06 PM

sanlover99 Senior Member

Senior Geek

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 224

Quote:

Originally Posted by louisvillelibertyinvicta I am fairly new to watch collecting even though I own more watches than most who have

been collecting for 5 to 10 years. What I have seen is the purist have went on a mission to

destroy the reputation of Invicta by whatever means possible. Why? Because at one time

when they wore there $5000 watch they got all the glory in the boardroom, business lunch, office, or in public settings. Now over the past several years the non-elites have

taken their glory and get all the comments and get the attention. Now the $5000 watch is

being looked over and comments are being made and attention given to a Bolt or a Venom

and to a purist that is too much and the only thing they can do is try to ruin Invicta.

If some of the other watch makers want to enter the market and make watches in the

$200 to $1200 price range that have designs that people want I am sure those of us in

that particular market will buy from them. But I feel no need to try to damage a company or individuals reputation if they decide not too. I am sorry that my Bolt draws more

attention than many watches that cost 10 to 20 times as much or my $130 Russian Diver

which seems to always draw interest just because people love the design and are amazed

by the size, not realy sorry!!!! If the haters want to damage Invictas sales then I would

suggest to stop the bashing because it is doing nothing but shining the light on Invicta and when people see them up close they become a fan and ignore the negatives and purchase

their first Invicta.

believe it or not, the majority of watch collectors arent that vain. my favorite watch in my

collection is my panerai, because it receives the least attention. it's like my personal secret. i

feel no desire to show off and say "LOOK AT ME!"

rhickey Senior Member

Senior Geek

Join Date: May 2009

Location: Altamonte Springs, FL Posts: 413

Real Name: Rob

Panerai is all about "look at me" !

rhickey

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#77

Today, 08:58 PM

sanlover99 Senior Member Senior Geek

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 224

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhickey

Panerai is all about "look at me" !

considering 99% of the population have never heard of panerai and considering that their

design although on the larger side is understated and bland.

so how is panerai "look at me" again?