Roberto Gaetano Interview - icann.org · Interview with Roberto Gaetano EN Page 6 of 31 STEVE...

InterviewwithRobertoGaetano EN

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ICANNHistoryProjectInterviewwithRobertoGaetano30June2016

STEVECROCKER: Roberto, it'sgoodtoseeyou.Asalways,we'retryingtocapturefinally

quiteabitof ICANN'shistory,andweplunged intothisby invitingthe

peoplewhohavemadesomeofthathistory,oralotofthathistory,to

comeandchat.There'snotmuchstructurehere,butI'mgoingtoaskyou

twoquestionsandthenwe'llbuildoffofthat.

Firstquestioniseasy,andthenI'llaskyoutheotherquestionafterwards.

Theeasyquestionis,describehowyougotinvolvedwithICANN,sortof

what'syourarcofactivity,whattimeperiod,andyourtimeinICANNof

coursebutalsowhateverleduptothat.

ROBERTOGAETANO: So, 1997, I was working for ETSI, European Telecommunications

StandardsInstitute,andtheinstitutehaddecidedthattheyweregoing

togetinvolvedintheInternetbecausetheyrecognizedthatoperatingin

thetelecombusiness,theyneededtobepresentalsointheInternet.

At that time, therewas the IAHC, International AdHoc Committee or

something like this, and the gTLD-MoU, all those unpronounceable

acronyms-basicallywasaneffort–thatwasbeforetheexistenceof–

before ICANNwas created. Sort of an attempt to do an international

agreement in order to separate the business of a registry from the

businessofaregistrar,andtohaveregistriesoperatinginthepublicfor


Page2of31

thepublicgood,andhave thebusiness runby registrarsandhave the

competitionrunbyregistrars.Atthattime,therewasthemonopolyof

NetworkSolutionswhowasatthesametimearegistryandaregistrar,

andtheTLDsthatwehadatthattimewere.comor.net.

So,thateffortwentonandbasicallythat’showIgotinvolved,becauseI

wasrepresentingETSI inthis.Thefunnypartofthestory isthat inthe

beginning,ETSIwasrepresentedbysomebodythatwascomingfromthe

real,hardcoretelcoworld,andthedialogwas impossiblebetweenthe

Internetpeopleandthetelcopeople.Therewasno...

Andso,theideawastotakesomebodylikemewho'sbasicallyasoftware

developer,insteadofatelcooperator,andinfact,thatwasthewinning

idea because for me, the Internet is just part of my world. It's not

somethingthatisinoppositiontowhatI'mdoing.ThatisbasicallyhowI

started.ShallI...

STEVECROCKER: Yes, keep going. So, did that come to an end?When I met you, you

weren’tatETSIanymore.

ROBERTOGAETANO: No.

STEVECROCKER: So,therewereseveraltransitionsinthere.


Page3of31

ROBERTOGAETANO: Yes.I'lltrytokeepitshort,becausetherewereacoupleofintenseyears.

Butwhat I'veseenformypart intheprocessofformationof ICANNis

this:theIAHChadapolicyoversightcommittee.Thatwasacommittee

thathadtodeterminehowthistransitionwasgoingtotakeplace.

Somepeoplewerethinkingthatthiscouldhavetaken.comor.netaway

from Network Solutions, which of course was a crazy idea, because I

rememberinonemeetingIsaid,"Guys,youdon’trealize. Icomefrom

Italy,andinItalyyoucangetkilledformuchlessthanthemoneythat’s

involvedinthis."

So basically, there was this proposal. I was one of the elected

representativesinthePOC[PolicyOversightCommittee].TheChairman

wasDavidMaher.

STEVECROCKER: Electedrepresentativesof...

ROBERTOGAETANO: IwasrepresentingCORE,CouncilofRegistrars.

STEVECROCKER: Andwhatbodywereyouelectedto?

ROBERTOGAETANO: TothisPolicyOversightCommittee.


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STEVECROCKER: Oh,Isee.So,itwasallputtogetherasifit'sreadytogo,but...

ROBERTOGAETANO: Yes.So,Iforgotonestep.WewereorganizedinaCouncilofRegistrars

that had about 100 members, most of which are actually currently

registrars.I'mthinkingofTucows,thinkingofMelbourne.

STEVECROCKER: I'malittleconfused,becauseIthought–maybeI'mwrong–thattheidea

ofregistrarscameaboutaftertheformationofICANN.

ROBERTOGAETANO: Actually,theideawasbefore.WhattheIAHCwasproposingwastohave

theregistriesbasicallynotearningmoney,justkeepingthedataforthe

publicbenefit,inthepublicinterest.Andthensplitbetweenregistryand

registrarsothatthebusinesswasdonebytheregistrars.So,theregistrars

were the oneswhoweremakingmoney and competing,whereas the

registrieswerejustapublicservice,Iwouldsay.

Thathadtobedone inan internationalway.Weneededtodevelopa

protocolthatwasallowingtheseparationbetweentheregistryandthe

registrar. That was not impossible to do, because there were already

someccTLDsthatwereoperatingthesameway.

And in fact, I even co-wrote one internal draft about the separation

between...Thatwasin'97.


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STEVECROCKER: Yes. What's confusing me is this, and it's just my lack of detailed

knowledge.MypictureisthatoneofthethingsthatICANNdidafter it

wasformedwasinstitutearegistrarversusregistrymodel.

ROBERTOGAETANO: Exactly.

STEVECROCKER: Andthatpriortothattime,NetworkSolutions,whichwasacquiredby

Verisignwasanintegrated–


STEVECROCKER: Andso,therewasasoleregistrar,andthepriceswerehigh,andthat–

so, I'mconfusedabout thetiming,and Iactually realize Iknowalmost

nothing about CORE although I've heard about it, so I'm very curious

abouthowCOREcameaboutandwhatthetimingofthatwas.

ROBERTOGAETANO: COREcameaboutwiththeideathatCORE,theorganization,wasgoing

tobetheregistry,andgetting–weweretalkingaboutsevennewdomain

namesatthattime.Thismagicnumberofsevencomesbackintime,and

then...


Page6of31

STEVECROCKER: Thatwaspartofthedialogueofthe ideathat inadditiontoallofthis,

we'regoingtocreatenewTLDs,newgTLDs?


STEVECROCKER: Isee.

ROBERTOGAETANO: So, thesevennewgTLDs,becauseobviously,NetworkSolutionswould

nothavegivenaway their registrybusiness for .comor .net. So, there

weregoingtobenewgTLDs,andthisthatwehadtheregistryseparated

from the registrar. And in fact,what happened after the formation of

ICANNisthatICANNusedthisschememandatingaseparationbetween

registry and registrar for Network Solutions and having the registrars

competingwithNetworkSolutions,theregistrar.

Infact,atthattime–I'mskippingonestepin-between,butIwillcome

backtothatlater.So,whathappenedisthattherewere–aprotocolwas

developedthatwaseventuallythefinalversionoftheprotocol,[it]was

donebyNetworkSolutionsasamatterof fact.Andthenthatprotocol

wasgivenaccessibletotheto-beregistrars.Thatwasaftertheformation

ofICANN,andIthinkitwasaroundtheendof'98,ifnotthebeginningof

'99, there were five so-called testbed registrars who were starting,

registering as in testmode .com, .org and .net domain names to see

whetherthisthingcouldwork.


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ThestepthatIhaveskippedinbetweenisthatthisideawaswreckedby

first the Green Paper and then the White Paper issued by the U.S.

government,whosteppedinandstatedtheprinciplethatthisthingwas

goingtobeunderthecontroloftheU.S.governmentinordertoensure

thestabilitymigratingfromtheoldmodeltothenewmodel,andthatwe

neededtohaveanorganizationthatwascalledNewCOREthathadto

takeovertheresponsibilityonbehalfoftheU.S.governmentinorderto

ensureasmoothtransition.

Oncethistransitionwasgoingtobecomplete,thentheU.S.government

wouldhavesteppedoutagain.Andthiswassupposedtolastacoupleof

years.

STEVECROCKER: Yes,we'veheardthisstory.Andthenthattakesustojustatthecreation

ofICANN.You'restillatETSIatthatpoint?

ROBERTOGAETANO: IwasatETSIduringthecreationofICANN.IparticipatedintheIFWP.I

wasactuallyintheSteeringCommitteeoftheIFWP.

STEVECROCKER: WhatisIFWP?

ROBERTOGAETANO: InternationalForumfortheWhitePaper


Page8of31

STEVECROCKER: Isee.Wasthatameeting[couldhavesoundedlikemeaning]?

ROBERTOGAETANO: Well,themeaningwassincetheU.S.governmenthasissuedthiswhite

paper,theadministrationhavegivenguidelinesonhow,whatwerethe

requirementsforbuildingICANN;thisorganizationneededtogivebirth

toICANN,makingsurethatalltheconditionsthatweregivenbytheU.S.

thatwereinthewhitepaperwerereflected.

STEVECROCKER: Iwas reacting to theword ‘Forum.’Did that translate intoaparticular

meeting at a particular time and place, or it was just a sequence of

discussions?

ROBERTOGAETANO: Thatwastheverybeginningofthemigrationoftheusualsuspectsform

onecontinenttoanotherfordifferentmeetings.Theyearwas '98.We

hadthreemeetings.ThefirstoneinReston,thesecondoneinGeneva.

BETSYANDREWS: I'msorry;Reston,Virginia?

ROBERTOGAETANO: Reston,Virginia.Sorry.ThesecondoneinGeneva,andthethirdonewas

supposed tobe inSingapore,but theLatinAmericanswerenothappy

withthissituationandtheyinsistedtohaveameetinginLatinAmerica.


Page9of31

IrememberIwasamemberoftheSteeringCommitteeatthattime,and

IrememberwehadtofightwithintheSteeringCommittee inorderto

have this meeting. Nobody wanted to have a longer process, so the

meetinginBuenosAireswassqueezedinbetweenthemeetinginGeneva

andthemeetinginSingapore.

STEVECROCKER: Isee.

ROBERTOGAETANO: And that was oneweek, theweek before the IETF in Chicago. This is

important for the thing that Iwill sayafterwards.But staying to these

meetings,themeetingofBuenosAiresinmyopinionhadaspecialvalue,

because it was the only meeting of this series of meetings that had

interpretationinSpanishandPortuguese.

STEVECROCKER: Portuguese.

ROBERTOGAETANO: So, that’swhere a lot of things started, and itwas a pretty successful

meeting,wellattended.

ThenwhywastheIETFmeetinginChicagoimportant?Becausethatwas

themomentinwhichtheIETFwasdiscussingwhatshallwedo.Andin

fact,JonPostel,itwaswhatIbelievewasoneofhislastmeetings.Yes,

indeed, because that was the summer of '98. He passed away in

September'98.


Page10of31

STEVECROCKER: October,actually.

ROBERTOGAETANO: October. So, I remember that I went straight from Buenos Aires to

Chicago,andsincetheIETFwasstartingonMonday,onSundayIwasjust

lookingatthepremisesandIsawamanwithsandalsandabigbeardwho

waswalkinginthehallway,andIsaid,"ThismustbeJonPostel."

STEVECROCKER: Mustbe.

ROBERTOGAETANO: That’showImethim,andIwenttohimandIsaid,"Hi,I'msuchandsuch.

I'mjustcomingbackfromtheIFWPifyou'reinterestedinknowingwhat

happened, and I can tell you." And much to my surprise, he was

interestedinwhatIhadtotell.So,thatwashowImethim.

Anyway, the discussion that continued in the IETF and how was the

involvement of the IETF, and then probably you knowmore thanme

abouthowthisdevelopedintheIETF.

STEVECROCKER: Iactuallydon’tknowverymuch,butI'minterestedinyourtrajectory.So

fromthere,didyoustayinvolvedintheearlydaysofICANN?


Page11of31

ROBERTOGAETANO: I stayed involved. I participated also in the creation of the Supporting

Organizations,specificallytheGNSO.

STEVECROCKER: Yes.

ROBERTOGAETANO: TheDNSO,sorry.

STEVECROCKER: TheDNSO,yes.

ROBERTOGAETANO: Atthattime,andthenthePSO,becausecomingfromETSI–ETSIwasone

ofthemembersofthePSO.Inparticular,weneededtodiscusswhatwere

therequirementsforthemembersofthePSO.Iactuallymanagedtohave

therequirementinthewaythatETSIwasqualifying.Whichwasnotan

obviousthing,because–it'salongstory,Idon'tknowifit'simportant.

STEVECROCKER: Well, Icantellyousomethingsyoumaynotknow.Manyyearslater, I

lookedatthesituationwehadwhereETSIwasoneofthreeorganizations

sharingoneseat,rotatingeveryyear.

ROBERTOGAETANO: Yes.


Page12of31

STEVECROCKER: Whichwas aweak, kind of awkward, not terrible but not particularly

productivearrangement.Welookedatitinseveraldifferentwaysovera

periodoftimeandfinallysaid,"We'vegotto–it’sreallytimetophase

this out." And at the same time, we were very sensitive about the

relationships,becausewedidnotwanttojustseveritandsaywe'renot

goingtohaveany.Wewouldn’twanttodoanydamage.

I found myself reading the Bylaws, and it said that these three

organizations,ETSI,W3Cand ITU-Twouldsharethisseatonarotating

basis,wouldsupplysomebodyontheNomCom,againonarotatingbasis,

andwouldsupplytwotechnicalexpertseach.Isaid,"That’sinteresting,I

didn'tknowthat. Ihaven'tseenanything,"andsoforth.So, itbecame

clearthattherightthingtodo–cleartome,anyway–istoeliminatethe

firsttwo,andtobreathelifeintothatrelationshipandmakeuseofit.

Wehadsomeinternaldiscussionandwesocialized,andeverybodysaid,

"Hey,that’sgreat."Sowedidthat.WemadeBylawchangesandwetook

out the first [inaudible] but I said, "We ultimately do have to follow

throughandactuallyworkwiththeexperts.AndIdon'tknowwhattheir

thinkingis,becausewehadnointeractions."

So, I called each of the organizations. When I called ETSI, they said,

"We'vebeenappointingexpertseveryyear,andno,younevercalledon

them,butwe'vebeendoingourpart."AndIthought,"Well,that’spretty

damn embarrassing, actually." I was quite red-faced that we had this

fundamentalagreementgoingbackyearsandyears,ETSIisgoingthrough

itspropercycle,andwe'dbeenignoringthem.AsIsay,Iwaschagrined

aboutthat.


Page13of31

So we did that, that’s the Technical Liaison Group, and we then

embedded that in a Technical Experts Group which is somewhat

expanded.Andwehaveregularmeetings.


STEVECROCKER: Wedidn'thaveonehere,but–

ROBERTOGAETANO: ThatIattend,bytheway.

STEVECROCKER: Allofthatisrelatedgoingallthewaybacktothisrelationship,andwe

said, "Well, we want to somehowmaintain that relationship, and we

wanttodoitinawaythat’smoreusefulandmoreproductivethanthe

sortofproformathingthatwehad."

ROBERTOGAETANO: Yes.Iwaspartofthediscussions.Ifollowedbecause–especiallywhenI

waschairingtheStructuralImprovementCommittee,sothatwas…

STEVECROCKER: So,fillinthegapforme,becauseweworkedtogetherontheBoardand

youwere–howdidyoucometotheBoard?Through...


Page14of31

ROBERTOGAETANO: FirstasALAC,andthenthequestionprobablyishowdidIgetontoALAC.

Well, from ETSI, themeeting in Berlin that was June '99 wasmy last

meeting,whatIthoughtwasgoingtobemylastICANNmeetingbecause

IhadresignedfromETSIandmovedtoViennatotheInternationalAtomic

EnergyAgency,goingbacktomyoldjobofsoftwaredeveloper.

So,IwasnotgoingtohaveanyreasontocometoICANNmeetings,except

forthefactthatIinthemeantimegotinvolvedespeciallyinuserissues,

theformationoftheNon-CommercialUserConstituency,theattemptto

haveanIndividualUserConstituencythatthenwasneverdone.

So,Iwasverymuchinvolvedinuserissues,andtheDNSOdecidedtohave

ageneralassemblythatwasgoingtobebasicallyamailinglistbutthat

was meeting regularly at every ICANN meeting, and they needed to

volunteersomebodytochairthegeneralassembly.

Itriedtosay,"ButI'mnolongerinvolved.Idon’thaveanyspecialhats,"

andMarilynCadesaid,"Inthatcase,wehavetheperfectperson."[Joint

laughter]

ROBERTOGAETANO: Sobasically,weareatthetimeofthegeneralassemblyoftheDNSO,and

Ichairedthisforalittlebitmorethanoneyear,let'ssayoneyearanda

half.


Page15of31

STEVECROCKER: And thiswaswhileyou–afteryou'dgone to the InternationalAtomic

EnergyAgency,anditwasokaywiththem?Theywerehappyforyouto

dothis?

ROBERTOGAETANO: TheywerehappyformetodothisaslongasIwastakingpersonaltime

off.But itwas justthethreemeetingsandthenthemailing list. Inany

case,themailIcoulddofromhome.

STEVECROCKER: Hardlynoticeit.

ROBERTOGAETANO: Yes. There were two or three things where slowly, the International

Atomic Energy Agency started thinking about recognizing what I was

doing,becauseforinstancetherewasanissuewithintheU.N.because

theUNESCOhadbeen–thenamehadbeenhijacked,andsotherewasa

discussionandnobodyknewinthe…

STEVECROCKER: Sometimesyoujustgetlucky,right?

ROBERTOGAETANO: Yes.Therewereacoupleofthings,butanyway,aslongas...

STEVECROCKER: Itwasn’ttoobig.


Page16of31

ROBERTOGAETANO: Exactly.Buttheninanycase,thegeneralassemblylasted,yes,oneyear

andahalf.Itwasstartedinmyfirstmeeting-withthefirstmeetingin

Cairo,andmylastmeetingwasin2001inUruguay,Montevideo.So,then

IfeltIwasgoingtodisappearagainforgood,butthencamethereform,

the ICANN reform 2002, and the creation of the At-Large Advisory

Committee.

ThereweresomepeoplewhowerenominatedbytheBoard,butsome

peoplethatweregoingthroughtheNominatingCommittee.Andso,Iput

mynameinthehatfortheNominatingCommittee,andIwasnominated.

ItookofficeinMontreal,themeetinginMontreal,andtheALAChad–

accordingtothereform–hadtoappointoneliaisontotheBoard.Esther

DysonwasonememberoftheALAC,andIwassurethatshewasgoing

tobe the liaison to theBoard.As formerChairof theBoard,whohad

moreexperiencethanher?Muchtomysurprise,sheindicatedmyname,

andsoIwaselectedastheliaisonfromtheALACtotheBoardforthefirst

term,andthenreappointed.

STEVECROCKER: Andthesewereone-yearterms?

ROBERTOGAETANO: No,theterms...Infact,thefunnythingisthattherewasnolimitationof

term.Iinsistedtohaveareelection,becauseIdon’tthinkthatsomebody

can be appointed for life. But in fact, I went through a second term

throughtheNomComforALACbecause–okay.


Page17of31

STEVECROCKER: Yes,butthatwastoputyouontheALACleadership,nottheliaisonto

theBoard.

ROBERTOGAETANO: Nottheliaison,butIwantedtohaveconfirmationandelection.

STEVECROCKER: Yes.

ROBERTOGAETANO: Butthen,becauseforinstancetheGAChaskeptthisthingthattheydon’t

have a reelection - is the Chairman, and it's onlywhen the Chairman

changes,thentheChairmanistheliaison.So,Iwantedtohaveadifferent

situationbywhichwegothroughanddoelections.

So,thatwasbasically it,andthentherestofthestory,youknow.And

whenIwentthethirdtimethroughtheNomCom,Iputmynameonlyfor

theBoard,andIwasselectedfor…

STEVECROCKER: Foraregularvotingposition.

ROBERTOGAETANO: Aregularvotingposition.


Page18of31

STEVECROCKER: Whendidthattermstart?

ROBERTOGAETANO: 2006.IthinkitwasthemeetinginSãoPaolo.

STEVECROCKER: And...

ROBERTOGAETANO: Andthelastmeetingwas2009,Seoul.

STEVECROCKER: Sothatwasoneterm?

ROBERTOGAETANO: Oneterm.Theninearly2009,Ihadmyheartattack.

STEVECROCKER: Changesyourlife.

ROBERTOGAETANO: Changesmylife,andthedoctorsaid,"EitheryoudoICANNoryoudoyour

dayjob."

STEVECROCKER: Oneortheother.


Page19of31

ROBERTOGAETANO: Oneortheother.Also,becausethearrangementwiththeInternational

Atomic Energy Agency was still the same, that I had to go to ICANN

meetingsduringmyholidays,onceeverynowandthentheyweregiving

meanextraweek,butitwashappeningonce...

STEVECROCKER: MyrecollectionisthatyouwereViceChairoftheBoard.


STEVECROCKER: ButIdon’trecallwhetherthatwastrueforallthreeofyouryears,orwas

itjustoneortwoofthoseyears?

ROBERTOGAETANO: Itwastrueforthethreeyears,becausewhenI–yes,whatchangedisthe

Chair.Thefirstyear,IwasViceChairandVintwasChair,andthenfortwo

years,PeterwasChair.

STEVECROCKER: Isee.I'llhavetogolookatmyrecords,butyes.AndIwasontheBoard

asliaisonfromSSAC.


Page20of31

ROBERTOGAETANO: Yes,whenIstarted,youwereliaison.

STEVECROCKER: Andinfact,inmycaseIwasboththeChairofSSACandliaison,soanother

exampleofthewaytheGACdidit.AndtheneventuallyItookaregular

positionon theBoard,and thatopenedup the liaisonseatand that is

nowseparatefromtheChair.So,bothmodels.

Good, so that’s the answer to the first question. And we've actually

coveredbitsandpiecesofmysecondquestion,whichisthis:inaddition

towhodidwhatwhen,Ithinkwhat'sinterestingorwhat'smostusefulis

togetatthestorybehindthestory,withthesequencesofeventsthat

reallymadeadifferenceso thatwecanconnect thepartsandso that

peoplewholistenorreadthishistory-andparticularlythepeoplewho

followusinourjobsasopposedto…-getanunderstandingofthecontext

thatthey'relivinginandhowthatcametobe.

Becausesomeofitismysterious.Whyarewestructuredlikethis?Why

do all these people react to us like this? How did we get into this

particulararrangement?That’sthekindofstuffthatIthinkisuseful.

So,thequestionis,thinkofthingsthatcometomindthatprovidesome

ofthestructure,thehistory,andtalkaboutthat.Not justsortofwhat

meeting took place, but the underlying, the cross-currents and

undercurrentsofwhatmaketherealstoryforthehistoryofICANN.

ROBERTOGAETANO: I'mnotsureIunderstandthequestion.So,whatwereinmyopinionthe

turningpoints?


Page21of31

STEVECROCKER: Yes.

ROBERTOGAETANO: Thekeypoints.

STEVECROCKER: Yes.Justpickoneandgo,andthenwecanfollowitwhereveritgoes.

ROBERTOGAETANO: Well,themeetinginLosAngelesin2000whenthefirstsevengTLDswere

delegated I think was a very important step. And then somehow, it

created also expectations that another round would have followed,

because actually in that meeting, the way it worked is that whoever

wantedtoapplyforaTLDcould.Andofcourse,theyneededtobuilda

solidcase,andthereforetherewerealltheseapplications,buttherewas

notagooddefinitionoftheprocess.

So,infact,whathappenedisthattheICANNBoardhadtodecideoneby

one,"Thisistaken,thisisrejected,thisistaken,thisisrejected"whichas

amethodcouldbeextremelydangerousfortheICANNBoard.

STEVECROCKER: Sure.


Page22of31

ROBERTOGAETANO: Becauseatthatpoint...Andinfact,forinstance,.web,thatwasonethat

wasexpectedtobedelegatedwasinfactnotdelegatedforthesimple

reasonthat itwasdifficulttodecidewhichofthethreeapplicantshad

thebestapplication.

Soinmyopinion–IwasnotintheICANNBoard,Iwaschairingthegeneral

assemblyof theDNSOat that time,butmy impression is thathad the

Board chosen one of the three, ICANN would have been in serious

problems.Therewouldhavebeenaseriouschallengemadebytheother

applicants.

So,itwasabigevent,butIthinkittaughtusthatweneededtohavea

process.Now,thedevelopmentoftheprocesstookalittlebitlongerthan

wasexpected,[Steve:laughter]butthen...

STEVECROCKER: Ithink,asyousaid,thiswasveryimportant.Letmefleshitoutalittlebit.

In2000,yousayICANNallocatedsevennewTLDs.


STEVECROCKER: AndIrememberwhattheyallwere..info,.museum–

ROBERTOGAETANO: .museum


Page23of31

STEVECROCKER: .biz....thelistisaroundsomewhere.Whatleduptothat?Iknowthatas

atop-levelthingwhenICANNwascreated,amongthetasksorcharges

thatweregiventoitwastopromotecompetition.


STEVECROCKER: And creating new top-level domains I thinkwas part of that thought.

What is thesequenceofevents that ledtoopeninguptheapplication

process?Andthenwhatcanyousayaboutwhysevenwerechosenas

opposedtomanymore?

ROBERTOGAETANO: IfIremembercorrectly,theapplicationswereintherangeof20to25,

somethinglikethis.Also,becausethiswasthoughtinthebeginningtobe

aprocessbywhichyouwouldhaveasmallnumberofTLDsandthenwe

haveanotherroundinoneortwoyears,andthenwehaveanothersmall

numberofTLDs.So,therewasnorushtogetthere.

STEVECROCKER: Isee.


Page24of31

ROBERTOGAETANO: Infact,wewereallpeoplewhohadsomething–justadifferentidea.For

instance, one in the first round was also .tel, then .museum you

mentioned. So, [there were] TLDs that were sort of dedicated to

something.

STEVECROCKER: Thiswas.pro,.coopand...

ROBERTOGAETANO: No,thatwaslater.

STEVECROCKER: Thatwaslater?

ROBERTOGAETANO: I'mabitconfused.I'mgettingold.

STEVECROCKER: Me,too.Itgetsworse.

ROBERTOGAETANO: Anyway,regardlessofwhattheyare, it'snotthatsevenwasthemagic

number.It'sjustthattheBoardwasdecidingonebyone,andsoatthe

endthosewhowereapprovedendedupbeingseven.Oneforinstance

thatwasnotgoing tobeapprovedthat thenwasapprovedat the last

minutewas.aero.


Page25of31

Thatwasinitiallypresentedas.airandthenfortheAirlineindustry,and

itwasSITAwhowasbeingthis.Thentherewasoneobjectionfromone

Boardmember.IthinkitwasaKoreangentlemanwhosaid,".air,what

does itmean air? Itmeans air. It has nothing to dowith airplanes. It

shouldbesomethinglike.aeroor...

STEVECROCKER: Oh.

ROBERTOGAETANO: Andvery–theguyswhowereproposingthatsaid,"Okay,wechanged

thename.Noproblem."

STEVECROCKER: Noproblem.[Jointlaughter]

BESTYANDREWS: Itwas.biz,.info,.name,.pro,.aero,.coopand.museum.

ROBERTOGAETANO: Oh,soyou'reright.Coopwas–

STEVECROCKER: Accident.

ROBERTOGAETANO: Wasoneofthefirst.


Page26of31

STEVECROCKER: Verygood,yougotthatrightaway.Imean,youwereabletofindit.

ROBERTOGAETANO: Soanyway,it'sjustthatitturnedouttobeseven.Itcouldhavebeensix

orcouldhavebeeneight.

STEVECROCKER: No,butgivenwherewearetodaywitha largenumberofapplications

thatcameinandsoforth,I'malittlesurprisedthattherewasn’tkindof

alandrush.Butpeopledidn'tknow,Iguess.

ROBERTOGAETANO: Well,itwassomething–itwasveryquick.Ifyouthink,ICANNwassmall

andquickatthattime.FromthemomentthatICANNwasformed,that

was somewhere in the secondpartof '98, twoyears laterwehad the

sevengTLDs.

STEVECROCKER: Yes,thatwasquick.Thatisquick.

ROBERTOGAETANO: But we had the elections, worldwide elections for the Board, for five

membersoftheBoard.That’soneotherthingthatwasdonequickly. I

meanwitharapiddecisionandsoon,andbutonwhichtherewerelots


Page27of31

oflessonslearnedafterwards.Whatdidwork,whatdidn'twork,andin

fact,whythiswasnotaviablesolution.

So,intheearlydays,therewerethosethingswhereICANNwasmoving

like a startup. So, very quickly, but sometimes not giving sufficient

thoughtbeforegoingtoaction.

STEVECROCKER: Ihavenotheardthestoryabouttheelections.I'veheardsomebitsand

pieces.Youwerethere.


STEVECROCKER: Saysomethingaboutthewaythatwassetupandabouttheresults,and

wherethingswentafterthat.

ROBERTOGAETANO: Theway itwas set up is that in principle, every citizen, Internet user,

couldvote.Theyneededtoapplyviae-mailorawebsite,ortherewere

severalmechanisms,andtheywerereceivingsomethingviathepost.Just

inordertoavoidthatyouhaveasortofrobotthatwas...

STEVECROCKER: Yes.


Page28of31

ROBERTOGAETANO: So, itwasdonewhatwaspossible toensure that therewasaphysical

personthatwasgoingtovote.ICANNwasoverwhelmedbythenumber

ofvoters,ofpeoplewhoappliedtoinordertogetthecredentialsforthe

vote.Becausewewerethinkingthatjustafewpeople,thosewhohave

beenmoreorlessaware.

STEVECROCKER: Yes.

ROBERTOGAETANO: Thiswasnotthecase.Also,becausetherewereinacoupleofcountries,

for instance, media campaign for the elections. And for instance, in

Germany, there was a media campaign and the number of voters in

Germany wasmore than the number of voters of the rest of Europe

becausetherewasanarticleonDerSpiegelandthatraisedsomething.

MyopinionisthatsincetherewasnoGermaninthe–Imean,basically

therewasadiscussiononthefactthatGermanyhadtohaveaGerman

director.WehadHelmutSchink inthebeginningtheappointedBoard,

theearlyBoard,butthosehadtostepdownandbereplaced.

So,anyway,thishappenedinGermanyandthathappenedalsoinJapan.

So,wealsorealizedthatinfactanelectiondonelikethissinceyoudon’t

haveanycontrolofwhat,howthemediaandwhythemediawillmove

inacertaindirectionoranother,moving5,000peopleismeaningwinning

anelectioninthiscase.


Page29of31

STEVECROCKER: Andyoumentionedthattherewerefiveseatsthatweretriedtobefilled

thisway.


STEVECROCKER: Andweretheyinfactfilled?

ROBERTOGAETANO: Yes,theywerefilled.Ithinkthatoneofthesignsthatsomethingdidn't

workinthat,orthatthatwasn’tthebestwaytoselectpeopleisthefact

thatyearslater,peoplecanhardlyevenrememberthenamesofthefive

electeddirectorsbecausetheyhavecompletelydisappearedformthe–

withthepossibleexceptionofKarlAuerbach.

STEVECROCKER: WiththepossibleexceptionofKarlAuerbach,yes.

ROBERTOGAETANO: ButtheGermanguywasthepresidentoftheChaosComputerClub.Even

myselfdon’trememberthename,soitbringspeopleonthe–because

the ideawaswe need to have a German director so themediawere

pushing, and they just picked a person. And then the personwas not

necessarilysomebodywhowasinterestedinInternetissues.


Page30of31

STEVECROCKER: Interesting.

ROBERTOGAETANO: Mypersonalopinion.Itakeresponsibilityfor–

STEVECROCKER: Yes,well,that’swhyyou'rehere.That’swhy-We'llclosewiththis:what

aretheareasthatyouthinkweshouldmakeapointofbringingthepieces

uptolightandtellingthestoryofpartsofthehistoryofICANN?What

areas are sort-of notwell-known or need to be pieced together from

differentsources?

ROBERTOGAETANO: I think that it will be good to bring up some of the things that were

runninginthebackground,becausethedeliberationsoftheBoard,the

way certain reformswere done, I don't know, even the reviewof the

differentSupportingOrganizations,theywerealsoimportantinacertain

way.

But everybodymore or less knows these things.Where we have less

knowledge – even… I have participated intensively I would say in the

processof'97to'99andtheformationandtheearlydaysofICANN,but

therearelotsofthingsthatIdon'tknowbecausehow–whatwasthe

plan?

IknowwhattheplanwasforCOREandtheIAHC,andwhatdidworkand

whatdidnotwork,butI'msurethattherewereothergroupsthathad


Page31of31

plans,andIthinkthat20yearslater,wecouldtrytoshedsomelightin

ordertounderstandwhatweretheforcesin...

STEVECROCKER: It'sagoodidea,weshouldgetyoutochairthemeeting.

ROBERTOGAETANO: Whichmeeting?

STEVECROCKER: Ofbringingallthattogetherandlookingatthat.

[ENDOFTRANSCRIPTION]

Roberto Gaetano Interview - icann.org · Interview with Roberto Gaetano EN Page 6 of 31 STEVE...

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