MVMB v. Gray - Trial Transcript

1

IN THE WESTERN COURT OF APPEALSWESTERN DISTRICT

Missouri Veterinary ) Medical Board , ) ) Respondent , ) ) vs . ) WD No . 75162 ) Brooke Gray , et al ) ) Appellant . )

IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF CLINTON COUNTY , MISSOURI43 rd JUDICIAL CIRCUIT , DIVISION 1HONORABLE THOMAS N. CHAPMAN , JUDGE

Missouri Veterinary ) Medical Board , ) ) Plaintiff , ) ) vs. ) Case No . 10 CN-CV 00842 ) Brooke R. Gray , et al , ) ) Defendant . )

RECORD ON APPEAL - TRANSCRIPT

APPEARANCES

For Respondent /Plaintiff For Appellant /Defendant :Mr . Edwin R. Frownfelter Mr. David E. Roland Mr . Ryan Taylor Freedom Center of MissouriOffice of Attorney General 5938 De Giverville Avenue615 East 13 th Street St. Louis , Missouri 63112Suite 401Kansas City , Missouri 64106

Sandra S. Sondag - Certified Court Reporter No . 904 (G)43 rd Judicial Circuit , Division 1

Plattsburg , Missouri

1( T r i a l commenc ed a t 9 : 02 a . m . on Sep t embe r 26 , 2011

and conc l uded a t 4 : 21 p . m . on Sep t embe r 27 t h , 2011 . )2

3I N D E X

4 PAGE

5PLA I NT I F F ' S OPEN I NG STATMENT 8

6DEFENDANT ' S OPEN I NG STATEMENT 13

7PLA I NT I F F ' S CASE 25

8W I TNESSES

9DANA FENNEWALDD i r e c t Ex am i n a t i on By M r . F r own f e l t e r 2610C r os s Ex am i n a t i on By M r . Ro l and 46Re d i r e c t E x am i n a t i on b y M r . F r own f e l t e r 7211

DAV I D LE I GHR , DVM12D i r e c t Ex am i n a t i on By M r . F r own f e l t e r 72C r os s Ex am i n a t i on By M r . Ro l and 81 13Re d i r e c t E x am i n a t i on By M r . F r own f e l t e r 98 Re c r os s Ex am i n a t i on By M r . Ro l and 100 14

STEPHEN S . GALLOWAY , DVM 15D i r e c t Ex am i n a t i on By M r . F r own f e l t e r 101C r os s Ex am i n a t i on By M r . Ro l and 180 16Re d i r e c t E x am i n a t i on By M r . F r own f e l t e r 199 Re c r os s Ex am i n a t i on By M r . Ro l and 201 17

BRUCE WH I TTLE , DVM18D i r e c t Ex am i n a t i on By M r . Ta y l o r 203 C r os s Ex am i n a t i on By M r . Ro l and 218 19Re d i r e c t E x am i n a t i on By M r . T a y l o r 234

20NATHAN I EL MESSER , DVMD i r e c t Ex am i n a t i on By M r . F r own f e l t e r 23421C r os s Ex am i n a t i on By M r . Ro l and 275

22( T r i a l ad j ou r ned a t 6 : 11 p . m . on Sep t embe r 26 , 2011 . )

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( T r i a l r e conv ened a t 9 : 05 a . m . on Sep t embe r 27 , 2011 . )2

( Re sum i ng P l a i n t i f f ' s c a s e )3 PAGE

W I LL I AM BURTON4D i r e c t Ex am i n a t i on By M r . F r own f e l t e r 316C r os s Ex am i n a t i on By M r . Ro l and 341 5Red i r e c t Ex am i n a t i on By M r . F r own f e l t e r 351

6M I CHELLE WYCOF FD i r e c t Ex am i n a t i on By M r . F r own f e l t e r 3537C r os s Ex am i n a t i on By M r . Ro l and 380Red i r e c t Ex am i n a t i on By M r . F r own f e l t e r 397 8

PLA I NT I F F RESTS 4109

DEFENDANT ' S CASE 411 10

THOMAS ALLEN , DVM11D i r e c t Ex am i n a t i on By M r . Ro l and 412C r os s Ex am i n a t i on By M r . F r own f e l t e r 483 12Red i r e c t Ex am i n a t i on By M r . Ro l and 504

13DEFENSE RESTS 509

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3E X H I B I T S1

PLA I NT I F F ' S EXH I B I TS 2 PAGE OF FERED PAGE ADM I TTED

31 Cha r t o f Requ i r ed Le v e l s 28 29 o f Supe r v i s i on 42 Le t t e r & a t t a chmen t s da t ed 9 / 6 / 07 34 3653 Le t t e r da t ed 9 / 12 / 07 34 36 4 O f f i c i a l S t a t emen t o f 6 Comp l a i n t 34 36 5 Le t t e r da t ed 9 / 28 / 07 34 36 76 Le t t e r da t ed 10 / 15 / 07 38 7 Ce a s e and De s i s t l e t t e r8 da t ed 10 / 15 / 07 38 388 O f f i c i a l S t a t emen t o f 9 Comp l a i n t da t ed 1 / 26 / 10 40 , 43 439 copy o f Bus i ne s s c a r d 751010 Cu r r i cu l um V i t a e o f S t ephen S . Ga l l owa y , DVM 102 1021111 I n f o r ma t i on she e t on S t ephen S . Ga l l owa y , DVM 103 103 1212 A r t i c l e - How t o As s e s s Equ i ne O r a l He a l t h 112 1121313 A r t i c l e - How t o Re cogn i z e and C l i n i c a l l y Mange C l a s s 1 14 Ma l oc c l us i ons i n t he Ho r s e 114 11414 A r t i c l e - Mo t o r i s e d e qu i n e15 den t a l equ i pmen t 124 12515 A r t i c l e - Tempe r a t u r e change s16 i n den t a l pu l p a s soc i a t ed w i t h t he us e o f powe r 17 g r i nd i ng equ i pmen t on equ i ne t e e t h 124 1251816 A r t i c l e - I n v i t r o s t ud y o f he a t p r oduc t i on du r i ng powe r19 r educ t i on o f equ i ne mand i bu l a r t e e t h 135 1362017 A r t i c l e - E f f e c t o f d e n t a l f l oa t i ng on t he r os t r oc auda l21 mob i l i t y o f t he mand i b l e o f ho r s e s 137 139 2218 A r t i c l e - E f f e c t o f d e n t a l f l oa t i ng on we i gh t ga i n ,23 body cond i t i on s co r e , f e ed d i ge s t i b i l i t y , and f e c a l24 pa r t i c l e s i z e i n p r egnan t ma r e s 137 13925

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19 A r t i c l e - E f f e c t o f 2 p r emo l a r and mo l a r oc c l us a l ang l e on f e ed d i ge s t i b i l i t y ,3 wa t e r ba l anc e , and f e c a l pa r t i c l e s i z e i n ho r s e s 137 139420 A r t i c l e - The r e l a t i onsh i p be t we en che e k t oo t h oc c l us a l 5 mo r pho l ogy , appa r en t d i ge s t i b i l i t y , and i nge s t a 6 pa r t i c l e s i z e r educ t i on i n ho r s e s 137 139 721 copy o f pho t og r aph 145 14722 copy o f pho t og r aph 145 147 823 copy o f pho t og r aph 145 147 24 copy o f pho t og r aph 145 147 925 copy o f pho t og r aph 150 150 26 copy o f pho t og r aph 151 151 1027 copy o f pho t og r aph 152 28 copy o f pho t og r aph 1551129 copy o f pho t og r aph 16030 ( e xh i b i t no t o f f e r ed o r adm i t t ed )1231 Cu r r i cu l um V i t a e o f B r uc e P . Wh i t t l e , DVM 206 2061332 Documen t - M i s sou r i Equ i ne Su r v e y 2001 210 2101433 Documen t - Equ i ne 2005 212 212 34 MVMA Re f e r r a l D i r e c t o r y 214 2141535 Map 216 21636 Cu r r i cu l um V i t a e o f 16 Na t han i e l Me s s e r , DVM 235 23537 Reg i s t r a t i on o f F i c t i t i ous 17 Name ( 2 ) ; Le t t e r da t ed 10 / 17 / 09 319 3201838 t yped no t e s 325 32639 Z i p - Loc k bag con t a i n i ng 19 med i c a t i on bo t t l e 377 379 40 Z i p - Loc k bag w i t h t he 20 Sy r i nge s 379 37941 Tube 379 3792142 A f f i da v i t o f Robe r t Ra i ne r and i nvo i c e a t t a chmen t s 340 3412243 Copy o f E l i z abe t h H i l l ' s b i l l 372 374 2344 B&B Equ i ne Den t a l Ev a l ua t i on and Ma i n t enanc e 24 Cha r t da t ed June 10 , 2009 374

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45 Cop i ed pho t og r aph o f a 2 B&B Equ i ne Den t i s t r y documen t 374346 Cop i ed pho t og r aph o f a B&B Equ i ne Den t i s t r y 4 documen t 374 47 Cop i ed pho t og r aph o f a 5 B&B Equ i ne Den t i s t r y documen t 374648 Depos i t i on o f Ca r o l yn Sm i t h 40149 Depos i t i on o f Te r i Mag r a t h 406 407750 Depos i t i on o f E l i z abe t h H i l l 407 40850 - A Exh i b i t i n depos i t i on 408 408 851 Depos i t i on o f S t e r l i ng S i l v e r 409 409 952 Depos i t i on o f Ke l l e B r amme r 409 40953 Depos i t i on o f Ca t hy Ha r r i s 410 41010

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DEFENDANT ' S EXH I B I TS 13 PAGE OF FERED PAGE ADM I TTED 1 Ce a s e and de s i s t l e t t e r 14 da t ed 7 / 19 / 07 52 52 2 Le t t e r da t ed 4 / 16 / 09 54 54 153 Le t t e r da t ed 6 / 21 / 05 56 56 4 Le t t e r da t ed 5 / 27 / 10 65 65 165 Documen t : Pa r t 1 : Ba s e l i ne Re f e r enc e o f 1998 Equ i ne 17 He a l t h and Managemen t 233 2336 Documen t : De l o i t t e . 18 Ame r i c an Ho r s e Counc i l Founda t i on - The Econom i c 19 I mpa c t o f t he M i s sou r i Ho r s e I ndus t r y 233 233207 Depos i t i on o f W i l l i am Bu r t on 350 350218 Cu r r i cum l u V i t a e o f Doc t o r Thoma s A l l en , DVM 413 414229 Depos i t i on o f Doc t o r Se an S t r a i n , DVM 509 509 23

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P R O C E E D I N G S1

(He a r i ng commenc ed a t 9 : 02 a . m . )2

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THE COURT : We ' r e he r e i n ma t t e r o f M i s sou r i 4

Ve t e r i na r y Med i c a l Boa r d v e r sus B r ook e Rene e ' G r a y , and 5

B&B Equ i ne Den t i s t r y , Ca s e No . 10CN - CV00842 . I w i l l 6

show t he S t a t e by Edw i n F r own f e l t e r , and , who i s w i t h 7

you , M r . F r own f e l t e r ? 8

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ' d l i k e t o i n t r oduc e Ry an 9

Ta y l o r , who w i l l b e a s s i s t i ng me i n t he ma t t e r . 10

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . Thank you , you ma y be 11

s e a t ed , M r . Ta y l o r . And t he De f endan t s , B r ook e G r a y i s 12

he r e i n pe r son , I p r e sume , i sn ' t she? 13

MR . ROLAND : I n t he cou r t r oom , y e s , You r Hono r . 14

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . And by t he i r a t t o r ne y , 15

Da v i d Ro l and . 16

Any p r e l i m i n a r y ma t t e r s be f o r e we p r oc e ed t h i s 17

mo r n i ng , gen t l emen? 18

MR . FROWNFELTER : I t h i nk no t , You r Hono r . 19

MR . ROLAND : I be l i e v e we ag r e ed t ha t we ' l l add r e s s 20

t he e xh i b i t s a s t he y come up? 21

MR . FROWNFELTER : Tha t ' s co r r e c t . 22

MR . ROLAND : Ok a y . Then I be l i e v e no t , You r Hono r . 23

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . A l l r i gh t , we w i l l ge t 24

s t a r t ed . A l l r i gh t , a r e t he pa r t i e s p r epa r ed t o 25

7

p r oc e ed on t r i a l t h i s mo r n i ng? 1

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ye s , You r Hono r . 2

MR . ROLAND : Ye s , You r Hono r . 3

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t , you ma y p r oc e ed . Do t he 4

pa r t i e s w i sh t o ma k e open i ng s t a t emen t s?5

MR . FROWNFELTER : I wou l d l i k e t o , You r Hono r . 6

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t , you ma y do so . 7

MR . FROWNFELTER : A ho r s e i s a magn i f i c en t 8

b i o l og i c a l ma ch i ne , a l mos t a t hous and pounds o f mus c l e , 9

bone , l a r ge b r a i n and r obus t he a r t and c i r cu l a t o r y 10

s y s t em , a l l o f wh i ch come s f r om , e s s en t i a l l y , g r a i ns , 11

oa t s , co r n , ha y , g r a s s . The k e y t o t r ans f o r m i ng a l l o f 12

t h i s i n t o t h i s magn i f i c en t , b i o l og i c a l ma ch i ne i s t he 13

t e e t h . 14

The comp l e x t e e t h o f a ho r s e a r e t he ga t ewa y t o 15

t h i s en t i r e o r gan i sm . We w i l l show t ha t t he c a r e o f a 16

ho r s e ' s o r a l he a l t h i s a comp l e x v e t e r i na r y med i c a l 17

ma t t e r , and t he de c i s i on o f t he l eg i s l a t u r e o f M i s sou r i 18

t o p r ov i de t ha t on l y pe r sons t r a i ned i n v e t e r i na r y 19

med i c i ne ma y pe r f o r m o r a l c a r e on ho r s e s i s suppo r t ed 20

by t he f a c t s and i s t he r i gh t de c i s i on and i n t he be s t 21

i n t e r e s t o f t he i r owne r s . 22

We ha v e b r i e f ed f o r you t he bu r den o f p r oo f i n t h i s 23

c a s e . I ' l l j u s t r e c ap i t u l a t e ou r pos i t i on on t ha t 24

b r i e f l y . Unde r Se c t i on 340 . 276 , a s i n t e r p r e t ed and a s 25

8

unde r t he l i c ens i ng l aws , gene r a l l y , i s i n t e r p r e t ed i n 1

t he c a s e o f Boa r d o f He a l i ng A r t s Ve r sus Sou t hwo r t h , 2

t he Boa r d be a r s a bu r den i n an unau t ho r i z ed p r a c t i c e 3

c a s e t o p r ov e by a p r e - c i v i l p r eponde r anc e o f t he 4

e v i denc e t wo f a c t s : F i r s t , t ha t t he De f endan t i s no t 5

l i c ens ed ; and s e cond , t ha t t he De f endan t ha s pe r f o r med 6

a c t s wh i ch r equ i r e l i c ensu r e unde r S t a t e l aw . 7

I don ' t be l i e v e t ha t t he s e f a c t s ha v e , a r e - - t he s e 8

t wo f a c t s a r e s e r i ous l y con t e s t ed i n t h i s c a s e . The 9

De f endan t s ha v e no t conc eded t he f a c t t ha t she pe r f o r ms 10

t he a c t s wh i ch a r e a l l eged , bu t on t he o t he r hand 11

ne i t he r i s t he r e any e v i denc e o f wh i ch I ' m awa r e t ha t 12

she doe s no t do so . 13

We w i l l p r oduc e i n pe r son and by depos i t i on 14

nume r ous w i t ne s s e s who c an r e coun t e v en t s i n wh i ch t he 15

De f endan t , B r ook e Gr a y , pe r f o r med a c t s amoun t i ng t o 16

v e t e r i na r y den t i s t r y , a s we l l a s adm i s s i ons f r om he r 17

own s t a t emen t s t ha t she ha s done so . 18

I t i s no t an e l emen t o f ou r bu r den o f p r oo f t o show 19

any pa r t i cu l a r ha r m r e su l t i ng f r om t he a c t s t ha t 20

Ms . G r a y pe r f o r med , e i t he r by he r o r by l a y equ i ne 21

den t i s t s i n gene r a l . Th i s i s - - t he Sou t hwo r t h c a s e i s 22

c l e a r on t h i s i s sue . 23

The mo r e s e r i ous l y con t e s t ed i s sue s a r e t he 24

cons t i t u t i ona l i s sue s r a i s ed i n t he De f endan t ' s s i x 25

9

a f f i r ma t i v e de f ens e s . The c a s e l aw o f M i s sou r i i s v e r y 1

c l e a r t ha t a pe r son cha l l eng i ng t he cons t i t u t i ona l i t y 2

o f a s t a t u t e be a r s a he a v y bu r den . 3

Fo r due p r oc e s s cha l l enge s , t he De f endan t mus t 4

p r ov e t ha t t he a c t i on by t he l eg i s l a t u r e i s t r u l y 5

i r r a t i ona l . The t r u l y i r r a t i ona l s t anda r d ha s be en 6

f u r t he r de f i ned a s some t h i ng mo r e t han a r b i t r a r y , 7

c ap r i c i ous o r i n v i o l a t i on o f s t a t e l aw . 8

Equa l p r o t e c t i on ana l y s i s r equ i r e s t ha t t he 9

De f endan t show t ha t t he d i s t i nc t i on d r awn by t he 10

l eg i s l a t u r e i s no t r a t i ona l l y r e l a t ed t o a l eg i t i ma t e 11

s t a t e i n t e r e s t . I t ' s no t enough t o show t ha t a 12

d i f f e r en t de c i s i on cou l d ha v e be en made o r t ha t t he 13

l eg i s l a t u r e d i d no t ma k e t he r i gh t de c i s i on . The 14

De f endan t mus t e s t ab l i sh t ha t t he r e i s no r a t i ona l 15

ba s i s f o r t he d i s t i nc t i on t ha t ' s made . 16

The cons t i t u t i ona l cha l l enge i s de f e a t ed i f t he 17

S t a t e shows any r a t i ona l r e l a t i onsh i p a t a l l t o a 18

l eg i t i ma t e s t a t e i n t e r e s t i f i t shows t ha t t he r e ' s any 19

i n f o r ma t i on t ha t t he S t a t e cou l d r e l y on t o suppo r t t he 20

de t e r m i na t i on t ha t t he l eg i s l a t u r e made . I t ' s no t 21

ne c e s s a r y t o show t ha t t he l eg i s l a t u r e a c t ua l l y d i d 22

r e l y on t h i s i n f o r ma t i on , on l y t ha t t he i n f o r ma t i on i s 23

a v a i l ab l e . 24

The r e c an be l i t t l e doub t t ha t t he S t a t e ha s a 25

10

l eg i t i ma t e s t a t e i n t e r e s t i n a s su r i ng t ha t peop l e who 1

p r ov i de he a l t hc a r e s e r v i c e s t o an i ma l s and t o ho r s e s 2

a r e qua l i f i ed t o do so . We w i l l show t ha t t he ho r s e ' s 3

ana t omy i s a comp l e x ma ch i ne and t ha t c a r e o f a ho r s e ' s 4

t e e t h i s a p r oc edu r e t ha t shou l d on l y be unde r t a k en 5

a f t e r a t ho r ough phy s i c a l and o r a l e x am i na t i on wh i ch 6

on l y a v e t e r i na r i an i s qua l i f i ed t o pe r f o r m . 7

We w i l l show t ha t t he adv anc emen t i n t he a r t o f 8

v e t e r i na r y den t i s t r y t h r ough t he adv en t o f new t oo l s , 9

new med i c a t i ons , r e sou r c e s such a s s eda t i on and powe r 10

t oo l s ha v e i nc r e a s ed t he comp l e x i t y and t he r i s k s i n 11

bo t h t he comp l e x i t y and t he r i s k s o f v e t e r i na r y 12

den t i s t r y t o t he po i n t whe r e i t be a r s l i t t l e 13

r e s emb l anc e t o t he hand a r t t ha t i t wa s e v en a f ew 14

de c ade s ago , much l e s s i n anc i en t t i me s . 15

You w i l l he a r t e s t i mony f r om t he e x e cu t i v e d i r e c t o r 16

o f t he Boa r d wh i ch w i l l e s t ab l i sh t ha t t he De f endan t s 17

a r e no t l i c ens ed t o pe r f o r m any k i nd o f v e t e r i na r y 18

den t i s t r y i n M i s sou r i . You w i l l he a r t e s t i mony f r om 19

t he v e t e r i na r i an who b r ough t t h i s ma t t e r t o t he 20

a t t en t i on o f t he Boa r d and f r om an e y ew i t ne s s who 21

obs e r v ed Ms . G r a y pe r f o r m i ng equ i ne den t a l s e r v i c e s . 22

You w i l l r e c e i v e by depos i t i on t e s t i mony f r om f ou r 23

c l i en t s o f t he De f endan t wh i ch w i l l con f i r m t ha t she 24

pe r f o r med equ i ne den t i s t r y s e r v i c e s f o r t hem f o r 25

11

compens a t i on and t ha t t he y pa i d he r f o r t hos e s e r v i c e s . 1

You w i l l he a r t e s t i mony f r om t wo e xpe r t w i t ne s s e s 2

who w i l l e xp l a i n t he s cope o f v e t e r i na r y den t i s t r y and 3

h i gh l i gh t some o f t he r i s k s t ha t c an oc cu r when i t ' s 4

pe r f o r med w i t hou t p r ope r v e t e r i na r y e x am i na t i on , 5

d i agnos i s and supe r v i s i on . You w i l l he a r e v i denc e on a 6

su r v e y wh i ch demons t r a t e s t ha t t he r e a r e enough 7

v e t e r i na r i ans do i ng equ i ne den t i s t r y t o me e t 8

an t i c i pa t ed ne eds , and I do no t be l i e v e t ha t you w i l l 9

he a r any e v i denc e , any s y s t ema t i c o r e v i denc e o r 10

r e l i ab l e e v i denc e t o t he con t r a r y . 11

I n a l l you w i l l r e c e i v e t he t e s t i mony o f f i v e 12

v e t e r i na r i ans , t h r e e l i v e and t wo by depos i t i on . Wh i l e 13

t he s e v e t e r i na r i ans w i l l e xp r e s s d i f f e r en t v i ews on t he 14

l e v e l o f qua l i f i c a t i on r equ i r ed t o pe r f o r m equ i ne 15

den t a l s e r v i c e s , I an t i c i pa t e t ha t a l l w i l l ag r e e t ha t 16

t h i s i s no t a s i mp l e p r oc edu r e t ha t c an be pe r f o r med by 17

j us t anybody . And you w i l l no t - - I don ' t t h i nk you 18

w i l l he a r any w i t ne s s who c l a i ms t o t he con t r a r y , t ha t 19

t he r e i s no ne ed f o r any s t anda r ds a s t o who c an 20

pe r f o r m t he s e s e r v i c e s . 21

The que s t i on i s no t whe t he r t he S t a t e shou l d d r aw a 22

l i ne , t he que s t i on i s whe r e t he l i ne shou l d be d r awn . 23

The l i ne t ha t t he l eg i s l a t u r e ha s chos en t o d r aw i s 24

t ha t v e t e r i na r y den t a l s e r v i c e s mus t be pe r f o r med by o r 25

12

unde r t he supe r v i s i on o f a l i c ens ed v e t e r i na r i an . 1

Onc e aga i n , t he bu r den o f t he De f endan t s i s t o 2

no t - - t o p r ov e t ha t t h i s i s no t t he be s t de c i s i on t ha t 3

cou l d be made , no t t ha t ano t he r de c i s i on cou l d ha v e 4

be en made , bu t t ha t t he de c i s i on t he l eg i s l a t u r e ha s 5

made i s t r u l y i r r a t i ona l and c anno t be suppo r t ed by any 6

r a t i ona l e wha t soe v e r . 7

We be l i e v e t ha t onc e you he a r t h i s e v i denc e you 8

w i l l come awa y w i t h an app r e c i a t i on o f how much a 9

v e t e r i na r i an mus t know , how much r e s emb l anc e t he i r 10

p r a c t i c e be a r s t o wha t human phy s i c i ans and human 11

den t i s t s b r i ng t o be a r i n t r e a t i ng human pa t i en t s . 12

We be l i e v e you ' l l f i nd - - you w i l l f i nd t ha t f a r 13

f r om a c t i ng i r r a t i ona l l y , t he l eg i s l a t u r e ha s go t t en i t 14

r i gh t , and t ha t t he unau t ho r i z ed p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y 15

med i c i ne by B r ook e G r a y shou l d be en j o i ned . Thank you . 16

THE COURT : Thank you , M r . F r own f e l t e r . 17

M r . Ro l and . 18

MR . ROLAND : Thank you , You r Hono r .19

One o f t he p i one e r s o f v e t e r i na r y den t i s t r y w r i t i ng 20

i n 1906 s a i d , " The v e t e r i na r i an cons i gned den t a l 21

ope r a t i ons t o o t he r s be c aus e i t ' s r a t he r bene a t h t he 22

d i gn i t y o f t he l e a r ned v e t e r i na r i an t o f l oa t t he t e e t h 23

o f t he ho r s e , no t be c aus e i t ' s d i f f i cu l t , t ed i ous o r 24

dange r ous , bu t be c aus e an i ma l den t i s t r y i s r ega r ded a s 25

13

a t r i f l i ng a c comp l i shmen t t ha t t he uneduc a t ed c an 1

ma s t e r . " 2

You r Hono r , f o r a l l o f oppos i ng couns e l ' s wo r ds 3

abou t t he adv anc e s i n t e chno l ogy , a ho r s e i s a ho r s e , 4

and t ha t much ha s no t changed . Ne i t he r ha s t he ba s i c 5

me chan i c s o f f l oa t i ng ho r s e s ' t e e t h . 6

M i s sou r i l aw ha s s i nc e a t l e a s t 1905 r egu l a t ed t he 7

p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne , r equ i r i ng t ha t a 8

c i t i z en ob t a i n a l i c ens e be f o r e t he y ma y l aw f u l l y 9

engage i n t he v e t e r i na r y p r o f e s s i on . Bu t e v en a f t e r 10

M i s sou r i adop t ed t h i s app r oa ch , f a r me r s and r anche r s 11

a l l ov e r t he s t a t e con t i nue t o r e l y upon l ow cos t , 12

s k i l l ed , non - v e t e r i na r i ans t o a s s i s t w i t h r ou t i ne 13

an i ma l husband r y , such a s b r and i ng , c a s t r a t i ng , 14

de - ho r n i ng , hoo f t r i mm i ng , ho r s e shoe i ng and f l oa t i ng 15

ho r s e s ' t e e t h . 16

Tw i c e i n t he m i d 20 t h c en t u r y , l i c ens ed 17

v e t e r i na r i ans a t t emp t ed t o us e M i s sou r i ' s s t a t u t e s a s 18

an e x cus e t o shu t down non - v e t e r i na r i ans p r ov i d i ng 19

a s s i s t anc e t o t he an i ma l owne r s . Bo t h t i me s t he cou r t s 20

de t e r m i ned t ha t e v en i f t he a c t i ons comp l a i ned o f we r e 21

t e chn i c a l l y aga i ns t t he l aw , t he r e wa s no r e a son t o 22

i s sue an i n j unc t i on aga i ns t t hem .23

Twen t y y e a r s ago t he gene r a l a s s emb l y mod i f i ed t he 24

s t a t u t e r egu l a t i ng t he p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne 25

14

i n t wo i mpo r t an t wa y s . F i r s t , i t e xpanded t he 1

de f i n i t i on o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne t o i nc l ude any a c t 2

t ha t change s an an i ma l ' s phy s i c a l o r men t a l cond i t i on . 3

And s e cond , i t au t ho r i z e s t he Ve t e r i na r y Med i c a l Boa r d 4

t o s e e k wha t t he y c a l l a c i v i l i n j unc t i on aga i ns t any 5

non - v e t e r i na r i an a l l eged t o ha v e pe r f o r med such an a c t , 6

e v en i f no an i ma l su f f e r ed o r i s l i k e l y t o su f f e r ha r m 7

f r om t he a c t i ons o f t he a c cus ed . 8

Se c t i on 340 . 276 doe s no t r equ i r e a Cou r t t o i s sue 9

t he i n j unc t i on e v en i f t he gov e r nmen t p r e s en t s e v i denc e 10

sugge s t i ng t ha t t he De f endan t ' s a c t i ons f e l l w i t h i n t he 11

s t a t u t e ' s p r oh i b i t i ons . The j udge i s pe r m i t t ed t o us e 12

h i s d i s c r e t i on . You r Hono r , t ha t i s why t he que s t i on 13

o f ha r m i s i mpo r t an t i n t h i s c a s e . 14

The De f endan t s subm i t t ha t no t on l y d i d t he Boa r d 15

a l l ege t ha t ha r m wa s t a k i ng p l a c e i n t he i r pe t i t i on , 16

bu t i n t he abs enc e o f t ha t ha r m t he r e i s no good r e a son 17

t ha t t h i s Cou r t shou l d i n t e r v ene t o t h r e a t en t he 18

l i v e l i hood o f t he t hous ands o f an i ma l husband r y wo r k e r s 19

a c r os s t h i s s t a t e who a r e s e r v i ng t he l i v e s t oc k 20

i ndus t r y i n M i s sou r i . 21

You r Hono r , we be l i e v e t he e v i denc e i n t h i s c a s e 22

w i l l show t ha t f l oa t i ng , wh i ch i s some t i me s r e f e r r ed t o 23

a s equ i l i b r a t i on , i s de f i ned a s t he r emov a l o f sha r p 24

ename l po i n t s f r om t he v e s t i bu l a r a spe c t o f t he 25

15

ma x i l l a r y che e k t e e t h and t he l i ngua l a spe c t o f t he 1

mand i bu l a r che e k t e e t h . Th i s i s a r a t he r s i mp l e a c t . 2

I t i s no t t he a l l - consum i ng de f i n i t i on o f v e t e r i na r y 3

den t i s t r y t ha t t he gov e r nmen t wou l d l i k e t o a r gue i n 4

t h i s c a s e . We a r e t a l k i ng abou t a we l l - de f i ned l i m i t ed 5

and ha r m l e s s p r a c t i c e . 6

You r Hono r , a s oppos i ng couns e l a l l uded t o , peop l e 7

ha v e be en f l oa t i ng ho r s e s ' t e e t h f o r l i t e r a l l y hund r eds 8

o f y e a r s . A t l e a s t a s f a r ba c k a s t he 1200s t he r e a r e 9

r e co r ds o f peop l e us i ng f l oa t s t o f i l e t he sha r pen i ng 10

po i n t s o f f o f ho r s e s ' t e e t h . 11

F l oa t i ng t e e t h i s j us t one subs e t o f t he b r oade r 12

and mo r e comp l e x f i e l d wh i ch De f endan t s a r e no t a r gu i ng 13

shou l d be r u l ed i nv a l i d . I t i s i mpo r t an t t o c l a r i f y , 14

De f endan t s do no t cha l l enge t he ov e r a l l v a l i d i t y o f t he 15

v e t e r i na r y ' s med i c a l s t a t u t e . The y do no t cha l l enge 16

t he v a l i d i t y o f r equ i r i ng l i c ensu r e f o r t hos e who wou l d 17

engage i n t he f u l l r ange o f an i ma l den t i s t r y . Ra t he r , 18

t he i r pos i t i on i s t ha t whe r e a c i t i z en ha s made an 19

oc cupa t i on o f a s i mp l e , ha r m l e s s an i ma l husband r y t a s k 20

such a s f l oa t i ng , t he gov e r nmen t ma y no t 21

cons t i t u t i ona l l y r equ i r e t hem t o ob t a i n a 22

v e t e r i na r i an ' s l i c ens e i n o r de r t o engage i n t ha t 23

s i mp l e ha r m l e s s a c t . 24

Tha t i s t he pos i t i on t he De f endan t ' s ha v e s t a k ed 25

16

ou t i n t h i s c a s e . I t i s a pos i t i on t ha t i s suppo r t ed 1

by a numbe r o f f ede r a l c a s e s de a l i ng w i t h subs t an t i v e 2

due p r oc e s s and equa l p r o t e c t i on i s sue s , wh i ch t he 3

De f endan t s w i l l p r e s en t t o t he Cou r t i n due t i me . 4

We be l i e v e t he e v i denc e w i l l show t ha t a numbe r o f 5

non - v e t e r i na r i ans ha v e , t h r ough f o r ma l educ a t i on o r i n 6

t hands - on e xpe r i enc e be come s k i l l ed f l oa t e r s . 7

Requ i r i ng ho r s e owne r s t o h i r e a v e t e r i na r i an t o f l oa t 8

t he i r ho r s e s ' t e e t h i s some t h i ng a k i n t o r equ i r i ng a 9

homeowne r t o h i r e an a r ch i t e c t t o c l e an gu t t e r s . 10

Unde r Se c t i on 340 . 216 . 1 , Subs e c t i on 5 , f l oa t i ng ma y 11

l aw f u l l y be pe r f o r med no t on l y by l i c ens ed 12

v e t e r i na r i ans bu t a l so by ho r s e owne r s , by t he ho r s e 13

owne r ' s f u l l - t i me emp l oy e e s , and o t he r uncompens a t ed 14

l a ype r sons . Unde r Se c t i on 340 . 216 . 1 , Subs e c t i on 5 , 15

De f endan t G r a y wou l d be pe r m i t t ed t o f l oa t t e e t h so 16

l ong a s she d i d no t a c c ep t compens a t i on f o r do i ng so . 17

The Ve t e r i na r y Med i c a l Boa r d ha s i den t i f i ed no 18

r e s e a r ch i nd i c a t i ng t ha t f l oa t i ng common l y r e su l t s i n 19

i n j u r y t o ho r s e s . The Boa r d ha s i den t i f i ed no r e s e a r ch 20

i nd i c a t i ng t ha t f l oa t i ng common l y r e su l t s i n i n j u r y t o 21

humans . The Boa r d ha s i den t i f i ed no r e s e a r ch 22

i nd i c a t i ng t ha t t he qua l i t y o f a f l oa t e r ' s wo r k i s 23

a f f e c t ed by t he i r a c c ep t anc e o f compens a t i on . 24

Se c t i on 340 . 200 , Subs e c t i on 28 de f i ne s v e t e r i na r y 25

17

med i c i ne t o i nc l ude t he chang i ng o f any an i ma l phy s i c a l 1

o r men t a l cond i t i on . Se c t i on 340 . 216 . 1 ma k e s i t 2

un l aw f u l f o r any pe r son no t l i c ens ed a s a v e t e r i na r i an 3

t o engage i n any a c t f a l l i ng w i t h i n t ha t de f i n i t i on f o r 4

compens a t i on . 5

The s ame p r ov i s i on a l so ma k e s i t un l aw f u l f o r any 6

un l i c ens ed pe r son t o ho l d h i ms e l f o r he r s e l f ou t t o t he 7

pub l i c a s a p r a c t i t i one r o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne by 8

adv e r t i s emen t , t he us e o f any t i t l e o r abb r e v i a t i on 9

w i t h t he pe r son ' s name o r o t he r w i s e . 10

Se c t i on 340 . 294 ma k e s t he v i o l a t i on o f t he s e 11

p r ov i s i ons a c r i m i na l o f f ens e , a C l a s s A m i sdeme ano r 12

f o r e a ch an i ma l t r e a t ed , and t he r e i s no d i s t i nc t i on 13

wha t soe v e r i n an a c t t ha t g i v e s r i s e t o a c i v i l 14

i n j unc t i on , a s t he Boa r d ha s t e r med i t , o r c r i m i na l 15

p r os e cu t i on . The a c t s a r e one and t he s ame .16

F l oa t i ng i s no t pa r t o f t he co r e cu r r i cu l um o f any 17

v e t e r i na r y s choo l t ha t we ' r e awa r e o f . The Boa r d 18

c anno t o f f e r any e v i denc e t ha t any v e t e r i na r y s choo l 19

cu r r en t l y r equ i r e s i t s s t uden t s , a l l o f i t s s t uden t s t o 20

s t udy , p r a c t i c e and be t e s t ed on f l oa t i ng a s a 21

r equ i r emen t f o r g r adua t i on . And i n f a c t , f l oa t i ng i s 22

mos t l i k e l y t o be t augh t a s a sma l l pa r t o f a l a r ge r 23

cou r s e on equ i ne p r a c t i c e . Non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r s 24

ha v e t he op t i on o f t r a i n i ng a t spe c i a l i z ed s choo l s 25

18

whe r e t he en t i r e cu r r i cu l um i s ded i c a t ed t o t he 1

p r a c t i c e o f f l oa t i ng . 2

Unde r t he Boa r d ' s app l i c a t i on o f Chap t e r 340 , a 3

l i c ens ed v e t w i t h on l y m i n i ma l t r a i n i ng o r e xpe r i enc e 4

cou l d l aw f u l l y f l oa t t e e t h i n M i s sou r i , bu t a l a y 5

f l oa t e r w i t h de c ade s o f t r a i n i ng cou l d f a c e c r i m i na l 6

cha r ge s f o r do i ng p r e c i s e l y t he s ame t h i ng . Ac co r d i ng 7

t o t he Boa r d , e xpe r i enc e i s i r r e l e v an t . Ac co r d i ng t o 8

t he Boa r d , t he un l i k e l i hood o f i n j u r y i s i r r e l e v an t . 9

We be l i e v e t he e v i denc e w i l l show t ha t many ho r s e 10

owne r s wou l d p r e f e r t o ha v e t he i r ho r s e s ' t e e t h f l oa t ed 11

by a l a y p r a c t i t i one r a s oppos ed t o a l i c ens ed den t i s t . 12

Ac co r d i ng t o t he Boa r d , Se c t i on 340 . 216 . 1 p r oh i b i t s 13

non - v e t e r i na r i ans f r om e v en sha r i ng i n f o r ma t i on abou t 14

t e e t h f l oa t i ng . And a c co r d i ng t o t he Boa r d i t doe sn ' t 15

ma t t e r whe t he r t ha t i n f o r ma t i on i s t r u t h f u l o r whe t he r 16

i t ' s l i k e l y t o r e su l t i n ha r m t o anyone who r e c e i v e s 17

t he i n f o r ma t i on . 18

The Boa r d c anno t show any e v i denc e o f a M i s sou r i an 19

be i ng ha r med a s a r e su l t o f r e c e i v i ng t r u t h f u l 20

i n f o r ma t i on abou t f l oa t i ng . Ac co r d i ng t o t he Boa r d , a 21

l i c ens ed v e t e r i na r i an cou l d l aw f u l l y sha r e p r e c i s e l y 22

t he s ame i n f o r ma t i on t ha t a l a y f l oa t e r i s p r oh i b i t ed 23

f r om sha r i ng . 24

M i s sou r i ha s r egu l a t ed t he p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y 25

19

med i c i ne s i nc e 1905 , and y e t , du r i ng a l l t ha t t i me 1

non - v e t e r i na r i ans ha v e engaged i n ba s i c an i ma l 2

husband r y t a s k s t ha t wou l d f i t t he t e chn i c a l de f i n i t i on 3

o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne . And y e t , i n 106 y e a r s p r i o r t o 4

t h i s c a s e , t he Boa r d had ne v e r a s k ed a cou r t i n t h i s 5

s t a t e t o r u l e t ha t l a y f l oa t e r s o r o t he r an i ma l 6

husband r y p r ov i de r s shou l d be r equ i r ed t o ob t a i n a 7

v e t e r i na r i an ' s l i c ens e be f o r e engag i ng i n t he an i ma l 8

husband r y a c t i v i t i e s . 9

Be f o r e de c i d i ng t o t a k e a c t i on aga i ns t l a y 10

f l oa t e r s , we be l i e v e t he e v i denc e w i l l show t ha t t he 11

Boa r d d i d no t r e s e a r ch t he l i k e l i hood o f a l a y f l oa t e r 12

i n j u r i ng a ho r s e . We be l i e v e t ha t t he e v i denc e w i l l 13

show t ha t t he Boa r d d i d no t r e s e a r ch t he l i k e l i hood o f 14

a l a y f l oa t e r ' s s e r v i c e s l e ad i ng t o t he i n j u r y o f 15

ano t he r pe r son , and , You r Hono r , t h i s i s an i mpo r t an t 16

d i s t i nc t i on t o ma k e , be c aus e wh i l e t he De f endan t s wou l d 17

conc ede t ha t p r o t e c t i ng t he he a l t h o r we l f a r e o f humans 18

i s a l eg i t i ma t e s t a t e i n t e r e s t , De f endan t s do no t 19

conc ede t ha t p r o t e c t i ng t he he a l t h o r we l f a r e o f an 20

an i ma l i s ne c e s s a r i l y a l eg i t i ma t e gov e r nmen t i n t e r e s t . 21

We be l i e v e t he e v i denc e w i l l show t ha t t he Boa r d 22

d i d no t r e s e a r ch whe t he r M i s sou r i had a su f f i c i en t 23

v e t e r i na r i an popu l a t i on t o adequa t e l y s e r v e t he s t a t e ' s 24

equ i ne popu l a t i on o r i t s o t he r l i v e s t oc k popu l a t i on , a s 25

20

t he r e a r e o t he r an i ma l husband r y p r oc edu r e s t ha t a r e 1

i mp l i c a t ed by t h i s l aw . 2

We be l i e v e t he e v i denc e w i l l show t ha t 3

v e t e r i na r i ans a r e f u l l y awa r e t ha t t he r e a r e o t he r 4

non - v e t e r i na r i ans ; name l y , f a r r i e r s who p r ov i de an i ma l 5

husband r y s e r v i c e s , and y e t , t he r e ha s be en no a c t i on 6

o f wh i ch t he De f endan t s a r e awa r e t o en f o r c e t he l aw 7

aga i ns t c e r t a i n o t he r an i ma l husband r y p r o f e s s i ons .8

So You r Hono r , t o sum up , oppos i ng couns e l 9

r e f e r enc ed t he bu r den o f p r oo f app l i c ab l e i n t h i s c a s e . 10

And t he y on l y ha l f go t i t r i gh t . I t i s t r ue t ha t t he 11

gov e r nmen t ne eds t o demons t r a t e t ha t t he De f endan t 12

v i o l a t ed t he l aw . The y c anno t , howe v e r , ma k e t he i r 13

bu r den o f p r oo f by s i mp l y a s s e r t i ng t ha t a t some po i n t 14

i n some t i me a t an unde f i ned l oc a t i on , a c t s t ook p l a c e , 15

pe r f o r med by someone who ma y o r ma y no t ha v e be en t he 16

De f endan t ; t he y mus t ma k e conc r e t e t he v i o l a t i on t ha t 17

t he y a l l ege . The y mus t p r ov e t ha t t he De f endan t , 18

he r s e l f , engaged i n an a c t t ha t cons t i t u t e s t he 19

p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne f o r compens a t i on , and 20

t ha t i t t ook p l a c e a t a l oc a t i on w i t h i n t he S t a t e o f 21

M i s sou r i . I f t he y c anno t b r i ng t he s e e l emen t s 22

t oge t he r , t he y c anno t ma k e t he i r c a s e a s a ma t t e r o f 23

l aw . 24

We be l i e v e t he e v i denc e w i l l show t ha t t he 25

21

gov e r nmen t w i l l no t be ab l e t o p r ov e t ha t t he De f endan t 1

a c t ed un l aw f u l l y , and we be l i e v e t ha t we w i l l be ab l e 2

t o suc c e s s f u l l y a r gue t ha t t he Cons t i t u t i on doe s no t 3

pe r m i t t he gov e r nmen t t o r equ i r e a c i t i z en t o be come a 4

l i c ens ed v e t e r i na r i an and unde r go t he y e a r s o f t r a i n i ng 5

and hund r eds o f t hous ands o f do l l a r s o f e xpens e be f o r e 6

engag i ng i n an oc cupa t i on t ha t i s on l y t he p r a c t i c e o f 7

a ha r m l e s s t r ad i t i ona l an i ma l husband r y ende a vo r . 8

We be l i e v e t ha t we w i l l show t ha t t he l aw , a s t he 9

gov e r nmen t i s a t t emp t i ng t o app l y i t , v i o l a t e s t he 10

f r e edom o f spe e ch s e cu r ed unde r bo t h t he U . S . and s t a t e 11

cons t i t u t i ons . We be l i e v e i t w i l l demons t r a t e t ha t t he 12

l aw , a s t he gov e r nmen t i s a t t emp t i ng t o app l y i t , 13

v i o l a t e s t he p r i nc i p l e s o f p r oc edu r a l due p r oc e s s ; t ha t 14

i t w i l l demons t r a t e t ha t t he r e i s i n f a c t a v i o l a t i on 15

o f t he r i gh t t o e a r n a l i v i ng . And You r Hono r , t he 16

s t anda r d t ha t ' s app l i c ab l e , and I d i s ag r e e w i t h 17

oppos i ng couns e l t ha t i t c an be qua l i f i ed a s a bu r den 18

o f p r oo f be c aus e i n f a c t t h i s i s a que s t i on o f a l ega l 19

s t anda r d , and i nhe r en t l y i t ' s a que s t i on o f l aw a s 20

oppos ed t o a que s t i on o f f a c t . Bu t t he que s t i ons t ha t 21

t h i s Cou r t w i l l ha v e t o answe r i s , numbe r one , i f t he 22

gov e r nmen t ha s a r t i cu l a t ed a l eg i t i ma t e ob j e c t i v e t o be 23

s e r v ed by i t s i n t ended r e s t r i c t i on ; whe t he r t hos e 24

r e s t r i c t i ons a r e r a t i ona l l y r e l a t ed t o t he a ch i e v emen t 25

22

o f t ha t ob j e c t i v e i n l i gh t o f t he e v i denc e p r e s en t ed ; 1

and we be l i e v e t ha t a s f a r a s equa l p r o t e c t i on i s 2

conc e r ned , t he f a c t s w i l l demons t r a t e t ha t t he l aw i s 3

be i ng s e l e c t i v e l y app l i ed , and t ha t whe r e you ha v e a 4

s e l e c t i v e app l i c a t i on o f t he l aw , t he r e mus t be a 5

r a t i ona l r e a son f o r t ha t s e l e c t i v e app l i c a t i on , 6

o t he r w i s e t he app l i c a t i on r uns a f ou l w i t h t he 7

cons t i t u t i on . 8

You r Hono r , we a l so be l i e v e , pe r haps mos t 9

i mpo r t an t l y , t ha t t he e v i denc e w i l l show t ha t t he 10

Boa r d ' s a t t emp t ed app l i c a t i on o f t h i s l aw a l so v i o l a t e s 11

t he f undamen t a l r i gh t t o t he en j oymen t o f t he ga i ns o f 12

one ' s own i ndus t r y a s s e cu r ed by A r t i c l e 1 , Se c t i on 2 13

o f t he M i s sou r i Cons t i t u t i on . 14

You r Hono r , t h i s p r ov i s i on wa s added t o t he 15

M i s sou r i Cons t i t u t i on w i t h t he pu r pos e o f ensu r i ng t ha t 16

c i t i z ens cou l d no t be dep r i v ed o f t he r i gh t t o e a r n 17

f r om t he wo r k t ha t t he y l aw f u l l y p r ov i de . I f i n t h i s 18

c a s e t he l aw shows t ha t B r ook e G r a y cou l d l aw f u l l y 19

p r ov i de t he s e s e r v i c e s i n t he abs enc e o f compens a t i on , 20

t he s t a t e ma y no t dep r i v e he r o f t he r i gh t t o r e c e i v e 21

compens a t i on f o r t hos e s e r v i c e s . 22

You r Hono r , i t ' s f o r t he s e r e a sons t ha t we be l i e v e 23

t ha t t he De f endan t s w i l l p r e v a i l i n t h i s c a s e . The 24

gov e r nmen t c anno t ma k e i t s c a s e a s a ma t t e r o f l aw a s 25

23

f a r a s demons t r a t i ng t ha t t he De f endan t v i o l a t ed t he 1

s t a t u t e . Bu t e v en i n t he e v en t t ha t t he y do ma k e t he i r 2

c a s e , t he y c anno t cons t i t u t i ona l l y r equ i r e any an i ma l 3

husband r y wo r k e r t o ob t a i n a v e t e r i na r y l i c ens e be f o r e 4

engag i ng i n a s i mp l e t r ad i t i ona l oc cupa t i on . 5

Thank you , You r Hono r . 6

THE COURT : Thank you . 7

M r . F r own f e l t e r , i s t he S t a t e p r epa r ed t o p r oc e ed? 8

I do ha v e one que s t i on be f o r e you p r e s en t ed you r 9

c a s e he r e t oda y . D i d you ha v e a s t i pu l a t i on? I r e c a l l 10

on t he i s sue o f den t i s t r y , de f i n i t i on on t ha t , o r do 11

you wan t t o j us t s t a t e t ha t so I ' l l r e f r e sh my 12

r e co l l e c t i on .13

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , we a r e w i l l i ng t o 14

s t i pu l a t e t ha t f l oa t i ng f a l l s w i t h i n t he de f i n i t i on o f 15

v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne be c aus e , e s s en t i a l l y , any 16

i n t e r a c t i on w i t h an an i ma l f a l l s w i t h i n t he de f i n i t i on 17

o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne . We do no t conc ede t ha t 18

f l oa t i ng c an be equa t ed w i t h den t i s t r y . 19

THE COURT : Do you ag r e e t ha t ' s a s t i pu l a t i on , a s 20

f a r a s - - i s t ha t co r r e c t , M r . F r own f e l t e r ? 21

MR . FROWNFELTER : The wa y M r . Ro l and ha s s t a t ed i t , 22

we ag r e e t ha t t he - - t ha t t oo t h f l oa t i ng f a l l s w i t h i n 23

t he de f i n i t i on o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne . We d i f f e r f r om 24

wha t M r . Ro l and s t a t ed i n t he s ens e t ha t i t i s , i n ou r 25

24

v i ew , de f i n i t e l y pa r t o f t he p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y 1

den t i s t r y , and ou r r e l i anc e i s no t on t he gene r a l 2

p r ov i s i ons o f t he s t a t u t e bu t on t he f a c t t ha t t he 3

s t a t u t e de f i ne s v e t e r i na r y den t i s t r y a s t he p r a c t i c e o f 4

v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne . 5

THE COURT : Ok a y . So I t h i nk you ag r e e t he 6

s t i pu l a t i on i s f l oa t i ng equa l s , o r i s v e t e r i na r y 7

med i c i ne , bu t you don ' t s t i pu l a t e o r ag r e e be c aus e 8

t he r e i s a d i s ag r e emen t a s t o whe t he r f l oa t i ng i s v e t 9

den t i s t r y? 10

MR . FROWNFELTER : Tha t ' s co r r e c t , You r Hono r . 11

THE COURT : You be l i e v e i t i s . 12


THE COURT : The S t a t e be l i e v e s i t i s , and t he 14

De f endan t be l i e v e s i t i s no t ; co r r e c t ? 15

MR . ROLAND : Tha t i s co r r e c t , You r Hono r . 16

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . You ma y p r oc e ed w i t h you r 17

c a s e . Thank you , M r . Ro l and .18

MR . FROWNFELTER : And we w i l l c a l l us ou r f i r s t 19

w i t ne s s , Dana F ennewa l d . 20

THE COURT : P l e a s e r a i s e you r r i gh t hand and be 21

swo r n .22

23

DANA FENNEWALD , du l y swo r n by t he Depu t y C i r cu i t 24

C l e r k . 25

25

THE W I TNESS : Ye s , I do .1

2

D I RECT EXAM I NAT I ON3

BY MR . FROWNFELTER : 4

Ms . F ennewa l d , wou l d you s t a t e you r name and 5 Q .

add r e s s f o r t he r e co r d , p l e a s e . 6

Da n a F e nn ewa l d . And t h e a dd r e s s y ou s a i d? 7 A .

Bus i ne s s add r e s s , y e s . 8 Q .

Be 3605 M i s s ou r i Bou l e v a r d , J e f f e r s on C i t y , 9 A .

M i s sou r i 65102 . 10

And wha t i s you r - - i n wha t pos i t i on a r e you 11 Q .

emp l oy ed? 12

I ' m t h e e x e c u t i v e d i r e c t o r f o r t h e Bo a r d . 13 A .

Wh i ch Boa r d? 14 Q .

Th e M i s s ou r i Ve t e r i n a r y Me d i c a l Bo a r d . 15 A .

A l l r i gh t . I n t h i s pos i t i on wha t a r e you r 16 Q .

r e spons i b i l i t i e s? 17

I h a v e t he ov e r s i gh t o f t he l i c ens i ng and t he 18 A .

Bo a r d op e r a t i on s . 19

A l l r i gh t . And do you ha v e any o t he r 20 Q .

r e spons i b i l i t i e s i n t e r ms o f t he r e co r ds o f t he Boa r d? 21

I ' m t h e c u s t od i a n o f r e c o r d s a l s o . 22 A .

Thank you . Wha t c a t ego r i e s o f l i c ens i ng doe s 23 Q .

you r Boa r d adm i n i s t e r unde r Chap t e r 340 o f t he s t a t u t e s 24

o f M i s sou r i ? 25

26

We l i c e n s e v e t e r i n a r i a n s , v e t e r i n a r y 1 A .

t e c hn i c i a n s a nd v e t e r i n a r y f a c i l i t i e s . 2

A l l r i gh t , j us t i n v e r y gene r a l t e r ms , wha t a r e 3 Q .

t he qua l i f i c a t i ons t o s e r v e a s a v e t e r i na r i an? 4

A v e t e r i n a r i a n , y ou h a v e t o b e a g r a du a t e o f a n 5 A .

AVMA a c c r ed i t ed co l l ege .6

AVMA i s?7 Q .

The Ame r i c an Ve t e r i na r y Med i c a l As soc i a t i on . 8 A .

And t h e y h a v e t o p a s s a n a t i on a l a nd s t a t e e x am i n a t i on 9

i n o r d e r t o b e c ome l i c e n s e d . 10

And wha t a r e t he qua l i f i c a t i ons t o s e r v e a s a 11 Q .

v e t e r i na r y t e chn i c i an? 12

Th e y h a v e t o b e g r a du a t e s o f t h e Ame r i c a n 13 A .

Ve t e r i n a r y Me d i c a l As s o c i a t i on Co l l e g e , a l s o , a nd t a k e 14

a n a t i on a l a nd a s t a t e e x am . 15

And how l ong i s t he v e t e r i na r y t e chn i c a l 16 Q .

p r og r am? 17

I t ' s a t wo - y e a r p r og r am . 18 A .

Unde r wha t c i r cums t anc e s ma y a v e t e r i na r y 19 Q .

t e chn i c i an - - l e t me c l a r i f y t ha t . Unde r wha t - - wha t 20

i s t he supe r v i s i on r e l a t i onsh i p be t we en a v e t e r i na r i an 21

and v e t e r i na r y t e chn i c i an? 22

Th e y h a v e t o wo r k und e r e i t h e r t h e i mme d i a t e o r 23 A .

t h e d i r e c t s up e r v i s i on o f a l i c e n s e d v e t e r i n a r i a n . 24

Ha s t he Boa r d adop t ed a , o r doe s t he - - do t he 25 Q .

27

Boa r d ' s r egu l a t i ons s e t f o r t h any spe c i f i c s i n t e r ms o f 1

wha t a c t i v i t i e s r equ i r e v e t e r i na r y d i r e c t and 2

i mmed i a t e - - o r i nd i r e c t supe r v i s i on? 3

Th e y h a v e a dop t e d a c h a r t t h a t ou t l i n e s s ome o f 4 A .

t h e du t i e s a nd wh a t l e v e l o f s up e r v i s i on i s r e qu i r e d . 5

Ok a y . 6 Q .

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ma y I app r oa ch t he w i t ne s s? 7

THE COURT : Ce r t a i n l y .8

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER) I ' d l i k e t o show you wha t 9 Q .

I ' v e ma r k ed a s P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 1 . Do you 10

r e cogn i z e t ha t documen t ? 11

Ye s , I do . 12 A .

And wha t i s t ha t , p l e a s e? 13 Q .

I t ' s t h e l e v e l s o f s up e r v i s i on , r e qu i r e d l e v e l s 14 A .

o f s up e r v i s i on c h a r t . 15

And i s t h i s a - - i s t h i s r ep r oduc ed f r om t he 16 Q .

r egu l a t i ons t ha t ha v e be en adop t ed by t he Boa r d? 17

Ye s .18 A .

MR . FROWNFELTER : A t t h i s po i n t I wou l d l i k e t o 19

o f f e r P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 1 i n t o e v i denc e . 20

( P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 1 wa s o f f e r ed i n t o21

e v i denc e . )22

THE COURT : M r . Ro l and?23

MR . ROLAND : No ob j e c t i on , You r Hono r . 24

THE COURT : P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 1 w i l l be 25

28

adm i t t ed . 1

( P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 1 wa s adm i t t ed i n t o2

e v i denc e . ) 3

MR . FROWNFELTER : You r Hono r , do you p r e f e r t o 4

r e c e i v e t he e xh i b i t s you r s e l f ? 5

THE COURT : Ye s . Un l e s s you ne ed t o us e i t . 6

MR . FROWNFELTER : No . 7

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t , t hank you .8

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) Do v e t e r i na r i ans ha v e any 9 Q .

con t i nu i ng educ a t i on r equ i r emen t s unde r t he Boa r d ' s 10

r u l e s? 11

Ye s . Th e y h a v e t o a t t a i n t e n hou r s o f 12 A .

c on t i nu i ng e du c a t i on e a c h y e a r . 13

And i s t h i s s e t f o r t h i n t he r egu l a t i ons 14 Q .

t hems e l v e s? 15

Ye s , i t i s ?16 A .

Do you r e c a l l o f f hand wh i ch s e c t i ons o f t he 17 Q .

r egu l a t i ons e s t ab l i sh t h i s? 18

I don ' t o f f h a nd . I t h i n k i t ' s l i k e Ch a p t e r 4 , 19 A .

ma y b e , o f t h e r e gu l a t i on s . 20

Ok a y , t hank you . Wha t a r e t he s t anda r ds , 21 Q .

gene r a l l y , i n t e r ms o f f a c i l i t i e s? Wha t k i nd o f 22

ma t t e r s a r e r egu l a t ed f o r f a c i l i t i e s? 23

Th e i r s i s a s e l f i n s p e c t i on , a nd t h e y h a v e 24 A .

m i n i mum r e qu i r eme n t s t h a t t h e y h a v e t o me e t i n o r d e r t o 25

29

ob t a i n a p e r m i t . 1

Ok a y . A r e t he r e any spe c i a l t i e s r e cogn i z ed 2 Q .

among v e t e r i na r i ans? 3

We do no t l i c e n s e s p e c i a l t i e s . 4 A .

As e x e cu t i v e d i r e c t o r a r e you t he , do you 5 Q .

ov e r s e e t he s y s t em r ega r d i ng r eg i s t r a t i on o f who ha s a 6

l i c ens e ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 7

Ye s . 8 A .

Doe s B r ook e G r a y ho l d any k i nd o f v e t e r i na r y 9 Q .

l i c ens e? 10

No . 11 A .

Doe s B&B Equ i ne Den t i s t r y ha v e a f a c i l i t y 12 Q .

l i c ens e? 13

No . 14 A .

Le t ' s t u r n ou r a t t en t i on t o t he p r oc edu r e o f 15 Q .

t he Boa r d f o r i nv e s t i ga t i ng comp l a i n t s . When a 16

comp l a i n t r ega r d i ng t he - - a l l eg i ng t ha t someone ha s 17

engaged i n t he un l i c ens ed p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y 18

med i c i ne i s r e c e i v ed , wha t i s t he p r oc edu r e unde r wh i ch 19

t he Boa r d p r oc e s s e s and e v a l ua t e s t ha t comp l a i n t ? 20

On c e a c omp l a i n t i s r e c e i v e d , t h e o f f i c e w i l l 21 A .

a c k now l e dg e t h e c omp l a i n t a nd s e nd a c op y o f i t t o t h e 22

v e t e r i n a r i a n t o r e s pond . On c e t h e r e s pon s e i s r e c e i v e d 23

i t ' s p l a c e d on t h e a g e nd a f o r t h e Bo a r d t o r e v i ew , a nd 24

t h e n t h e Bo a r d w i l l ma k e a d e t e r m i n a t i on a s , i f t h e 25

30

i n v e s t i g a t i on i s wa r r a n t e d . 1

I s t ha t t he p r oc edu r e f o r a l i c ens e e o r a 2 Q .

non - l i c ens ed pe r son? 3

Th a t ' s a l i c e n s e e . 4 A .

Ok a y . How abou t a comp l a i n t aga i ns t an 5 Q .

un l i c ens ed pe r son ; wha t wou l d t he p r oc edu r e be? 6

I f we r e c e i v e a c omp l a i n t a g a i n s t a n un l i c e n s e d 7 A .

i nd i v i du a l , we w i l l s e nd t h e l e t t e r t o t h e p e r s on t h a t 8

s ubm i t t e d t h e c omp l a i n t , bu t t h e n i t i s p l a c e d on t h e 9

a g e nd a f o r t h e Bo a r d t o r e v i ew a nd d e t e r m i n e t h e n i f a n 10

i n v e s t i g a t i on i s wa r r a n t e d . 11

And wa s t h i s t he p r oc edu r e r ega r d i ng a 12 Q .

comp l a i n t f i l ed , o r any comp l a i n t s f i l ed aga i ns t B r ook e 13

Gr a y? 14

Ye s . 15 A .

How d i d t he a c t i v i t i e s o f B r ook e G r a y come t o 16 Q .

t he Boa r d ' s a t t en t i on? 17

Th e Bo a r d r e c e i v e d a n o f f i c i a l c omp l a i n t 18 A .

a g a i n s t B r oo k e G r a y . 19

And i n wha t f o r m d i d t ha t comp l a i n t come? 20 Q .

I t h i n k f i r s t i t c ame b y l e t t e r , a nd t h e n t h e 21 A .

Bo a r d r e qu e s t e d t h a t t h e i nd i v i du a l b y l aw s ubm i t a n 22

o f f i c i a l c omp l a i n t f o r m , a nd t h e n we r e c e i v e d a n 23

o f f i c i a l c omp l a i n t f o r m .24

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , I ' m go i ng t o ob j e c t . 25

31

MR . FROWNFELTER : Le t me show i t t o t he w i t ne s s . 1

MR . ROLAND : Ok a y . 2

MR . FROWNFELTER : Le t me o f f e r t he e xh i b i t be f o r e 3

you ob j e c t t o i t .4




Ye s , I do . 8 A .


Th i s i s t h e l e t t e r o f c omp l a i n t a g a i n s t B r oo k e 10 A .

G r a y f r om Do c t o r Da v i d L e i gh r . 11

And wha t da t e wa s t ha t r e c e i v ed? 12 Q .

I t wa s Se p t emb e r 6 t h , o r a f t e r t h a t . I t wa s 13 A .

d a t e d Se p t emb e r 6 t h .14

O f wha t y e a r ? 15 Q .

2007 . 16 A .

And t h i s l e t t e r ha s a numbe r o f a t t a chmen t s t o 17 Q .

i t ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 18

Th a t i s c o r r e c t . 19 A .

Now wha t a c t i on wa s t a k en w i t h r ega r d t o t h i s 20 Q .

l e t t e r ? 21

Do c t o r L e i gh r wou l d h a v e b e e n s e n t a l e t t e r 22 A .

r e qu e s t i ng t h a t i n o r d e r f o r a c omp l a i n t t o b e r e v i ewe d 23

b y t h e Bo a r d i t h a d t o b e on a n o f f i c i a l c omp l a i n t 24

f o r m . 25

32

I ' d l i k e t o show you wha t I ' v e ma r k ed a s 1 Q .

Pe t i t i one r ' s Exh i b i t No . - - o r P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 2

No . 3 . Do you r e cogn i z e t ha t documen t ? 3

Ye s , I do . 4 A .


I t i s a l e t t e r t o Do c t o r L e i gh r r e qu e s t i ng t h a t 6 A .

t h e , a n o f f i c i a l c omp l a i n t b e f i l e d a g a i n s t Do c t o r - - 7

o r , I ' m s o r r y - - B r oo k e G r a y . 8

And wha t i s t he da t e o f t ha t l e t t e r ? 9 Q .

Se p t emb e r 12 t h , 2007 . 10 A .

I wou l d l i k e t o show you wha t I ' v e ma r k ed a s 11 Q .

Pe t i t i one r ' s - - P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 4 . Do you 12


Ye s , I do . 14 A .


I t i s t h e o f f i c i a l s t a t eme n t o f c omp l a i n t f r om 16 A .

Doc t o r Le i gh r . 17

And wha t i s t he da t e on t ha t ? 18 Q .

I t wa s no t a r i z e d on Se p t emb e r 26 t h , 2007 . 19 A .

I wou l d l i k e t o show you wha t I ' v e ma r k ed a s 20 Q .

P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 5 . Do you r e cogn i z e t ha t 21

documen t ? 22

Ye s , I do . 23 A .

Wh a t i s t h a t ? 24 Q .

I t i s a l e t t e r t o Do c t o r L e i gh r i nd i c a t i ng t h a t 25 A .

33

t h e c omp l a i n t w i l l b e p l a c e d on t h e a g e nd a f o r t h e 1

Bo a r d t o r e v i ew . 2

Thank you . D i d I a s k you wha t t he da t e o f t ha t 3 Q .

l e t t e r i s? 4

I t i s Se p t emb e r 28 t h , 2007 . 5 A .


o f f e r i n t o e v i denc e f o r t he l i m i t ed pu r pos e o f 7

documen t i ng t he s t eps t ha t l e ad t o t he Boa r d ' s i nqu i r y 8

i n t o t he ma t t e r , P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t s 2 , 3 , 4 and 5 . 9

And I wou l d l i k e t o pa r t i cu l a r l y no t e t ha t t he r e a r e a 10

numbe r o f s t a t emen t s i n P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 2 wh i ch t he 11

P l a i n t i f f doe s no t o f f e r f o r pu r pos e s o f p r oo f o f t he 12

ma t t e r s a l l eged t he r e i n . 13

As M r . Ro l and w i l l a r gue i n a momen t , t he l e t t e r 14

con t a i ns a cons i de r ab l e amoun t o f bo t h he a r s a y and a l so 15

ma t t e r s wh i ch we r e no t pu r sued o r de v e l oped by t he 16

Boa r d and a s t o wh i ch t he r e w i l l be no f u r t he r e v i denc e 17

i n t h i s c a s e . 18

The r e f o r e I ' m o f f e r i ng P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 2 19

f o r t he v e r y l i m i t ed pu r pos e o f documen t i ng t he t r a i l 20

by wh i ch t he ma t t e r c ame t o t he a t t en t i on o f t he Boa r d .21

( P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t s Nos . 2 , 3 , 4 and 5 we r e22

o f f e r ed i n t o e v i denc e . ) 23

MR . ROLAND : And You r Hono r , we w i l l ob j e c t on t he 24

g r ounds t ha t t he t r a i l by wh i ch t he ma t t e r c ame be f o r e 25

34

t he Boa r d i s no t r e l e v an t t o t h i s c a s e ; t ha t t he 1

documen t s be i ng o f f e r ed i n t o e v i denc e a r e r i f ed w i t h 2

he a r s a y , and t ha t any p r oba t i v e v a l ue t ha t t he s e 3

documen t s ha v e i s f a r ou t we i ghed by t he po t en t i a l 4

p r e j ud i c e t ha t cou l d be su f f e r ed by De f endan t i f t he s e 5

i t ems a r e adm i t t ed i n t o e v i denc e . 6

THE COURT : Any t h i ng e l s e? 7

MR . FROWNFELTER : We do no t - - I t h i nk t h i s i s 8

no t a - - t h i s i s no t a j u r y t r i a l . I t h i nk t ha t t he 9

Cou r t i s c apab l e o f so r t i ng ou t and d i s r ega r d i ng t he 10

e v i denc e t o t he e x t en t t ha t i t con t a i ns he a r s a y . 11

I n t e r ms o f r e l e v anc e , I t h i nk t ha t i t i s r e l e v an t 12

t o t he ma t t e r . We w i l l i n a momen t d i s cus s t he Boa r d ' s 13

i n i t i a l d i spos i t i on . Fo r t h i s r e a son we t h i nk t ha t 14

ha v i ng documen t a t i on o f t he p r oc e s s on t he r e co r d i s 15

r e l e v an t t o t he ma t t e r , a l t hough we w i l l no t a t t a ch a 16

l o t o f e v i den t i a r y s i gn i f i c anc e t o i t i n t e r ms o f t he 17

i s sue s i n t he c a s e . 18

THE COURT : So ba s i c a l l y you ' r e o f f e r i ng i t f o r t he 19

pu r pos e o f no t i c e t o t he Boa r d?20

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ye s , j us t documen t i ng t he p r oc e s s 21

by wh i ch t he ma t t e r c ame t o t he Boa r d ' s a t t en t i on . 22

Espe c i a l l y i n l i gh t o f t he f a c t t ha t M r . Ro l and ha s 23

made a l l ega t i ons t ha t t he r e i s some so r t o f p r oc edu r a l 24

due p r oc e s s i s sue i n how t he Boa r d p r oc e eded w i t h t he 25

35

ma t t e r , I t h i nk t he r e l e v anc e o f t he documen t s i s , i s 1

e s t ab l i shed . 2

THE COURT : I ' l l ov e r r u l e t he ob j e c t i on and a l l ow 3

i t f o r t he l i m i t ed pu r pos e s t a t ed . P l a i n t i f f ' s 2 , 3 , 4 4

and 5 w i l l be adm i t t ed w i t h t hos e l i m i t a t i ons . 5

( P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t s Nos . 2 , 3 , 4 and 5 we r e6

adm i t t ed i n t o e v i denc e . ) 7

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) Now Ms . F ennewa l d , d i d 8 Q .

t he Boa r d cons i de r t he a l l ega t i ons t ha t had be en r a i s ed 9

by Doc t o r Le i gh r ? 10

Ye s , t h e y d i d . 11 A .

Wa s t ha t a t t he ne x t me e t i ng t ha t wa s he l d 12 Q .

a f t e r t he l e t t e r wa s r e c e i v ed? 13

Th a t i s c o r r e c t .14 A .

And wha t de t e r m i na t i on d i d t he Boa r d ma k e a s t o 15 Q .

a c t i on on t he comp l a i n t ? 16

To i s s u e a c e a s e a nd d e s i s t l e t t e r . 17 A .

Now l e t ' s , l e t ' s j us t e xp l o r e a l i t t l e b i t wha t 18 Q .

t he s i gn i f i c anc e o f a c e a s e and de s i s t l e t t e r i s . Wha t 19

i s t he Boa r d ' s - - how doe s t he Boa r d gene r a l l y app r oa ch 20

t he r e so l u t i on o f unau t ho r i z ed p r a c t i c e c a s e s? 21

Th e y wou l d t y p i c a l l y - - I t h i n k t h i s i s wh a t 22 A .

y ou ' r e a s k i ng - - i n v e s t i g a t e t h e ma t t e r , a nd t h e n i s s u e 23

t h a t - - i f t h e y f ound t h a t t h e i nd i v i du a l i s p r a c t i c i ng 24

w i t hou t a l i c e n s e t h e y wou l d i s s u e a c e a s e a nd d e s i s t 25

36

l e t t e r . 1

Now i s t he c e a s e and de s i s t l e t t e r f i l ed i n any 2 Q .

o f f i c i a l wa y? 3

No , i t i s k e p t i n ou r o f f i c e . 4 A .

And ha s i t be en t he p r a c t i c e o f t he Boa r d t o 5 Q .

w r i t e c e a s e and de s i s t l e t t e r s ov e r t he y e a r s? 6

Ye s . 7 A .

A l l r i gh t , I ' d l i k e t o show you wha t I ' v e 8 Q .

ma r k ed a s P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 6 . Do you r e cogn i z e 9

t ha t ? 10

I do . 11 A .


I t i s a l e t t e r t o Do c t o r L e i gh r d a t e d 13 A .

Oc t ob e r 15 t h , 2007 , i nd i c a t i ng t h a t t h e Bo a r d r e v i ewe d 14

t h e c omp l a i n t a t t h e Oc t ob e r 2007 me e t i ng a nd d e c i d e d 15

t o i s s u e a c e a s e a nd d e s i s t l e t t e r a g a i n s t Ms . G r a y . 16

And I wou l d l i k e you t o l ook a t wha t I ' v e 17 Q .


t ha t documen t ? 19

Ye s , I do . 20 A .


I t i s t h e c e a s e a nd d e s i s t l e t t e r s e n t t o 22 A .

Ms . G r a y . 23

And by wha t me ans wa s t ha t l e t t e r t r ansm i t t ed 24 Q .

t o he r ? 25

37

Ce r t i f i e d ma i l . 1 A .

And on Pe t i t i one r ' s Exh i b i t 7 t he r e ' s a copy o f 2 Q .

a c e r t i f i ed ma i l r e c e i p t ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 3

Ye s . 4 A .

And wha t doe s t ha t r e c e i p t i nd i c a t e i n t e r ms o f 5 Q .

de l i v e r y o f t he l e t t e r ? 6

Tha t i t wa s s i gned by Tom G r a y . 7 A .

And on wha t da t e wa s t ha t s i gned f o r ? 8 Q .

Oc t ob e r 17 t h , 2007 . 9 A .


o f f e r i n t o e v i denc e P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t s Nos . 6 and 7 .11

( P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t s Nos . 6 and 7 we r e o f f e r ed12

i n t o e v i denc e . )13

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , De f endan t ' s r eg i s t e r t he 14

s ame ob j e c t i on t o r e l e v anc e f o r t he s e ma t t e r s . 15

THE COURT : How ' s a l e t t e r t o Doc t o r Le i gh r 16

r e l e v an t ? 17

MR . FROWNFELTER : S i mp l y documen t i ng t he p r oc e s s 18

t ha t wa s t a k en . I t ' s o f m i n i ma l s i gn i f i c anc e , me r e l y a 19

con f i r ma t i on o f wha t a c t i on wa s t a k en on t he c a s e . 20

THE COURT : I ' l l sus t a i n t he ob j e c t i on w i t h r e spe c t 21

t o P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 6 , and I w i l l ov e r r u l e t he 22

ob j e c t i on w i t h r e spe c t t o P l a i n t i f f ' s No . 7 .23


e v i denc e . )25

38

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER) Ok a y , d i d t he Boa r d t a k e 1 Q .

any f u r t he r a c t i on a f t e r s end i ng , i n 2007 , a f t e r 2

s end i ng t he c e a s e and de s i s t l e t t e r ? 3

No . 4 A .

D i d t he Boa r d do any f o l l ow - up i nv e s t i ga t i on i n 5 Q .

t he a f t e r ma t h o f t he de l i v e r y o f t ha t l e t t e r t o con f i r m 6

wha t Ms . G r a y wa s do i ng? 7

No . 8 A .

Do you r e c a l l wha t t he ne x t i n f o r ma t i on t he 9 Q .

Boa r d r e c e i v ed r ega r d i ng Ms . G r a y wa s? 10

Th e Bo a r d r e c e i v e d a n o f f i c i a l c omp l a i n t 11 A .

a g a i n s t Ms . G r a y f r om Do c t o r L e i gh r . 12

I ' d l i k e t o show you wha t we ' v e ma r k ed a s 13 Q .


documen t ? 15

Ye s , I do . 16 A .

And wha t i s t he da t e on wh i ch t ha t documen t wa s 17 Q .

comp l e t ed? Oh , e x cus e me , wha t i s t ha t documen t ? 18

I t i s t h e o f f i c i a l s t a t eme n t o f c omp l a i n t 19 A .

r e c e i v e d f r om Do c t o r Da v i d L e i gh r a g a i n s t B r oo k e G r a y . 20

And when i s t ha t comp l a i n t da t ed? 21 Q .

J a nu a r y 26 , 2010 . 22 A .

So am I co r r e c t , t hen , t ha t t he r e wa s a pe r i od 23 Q .

o f 3 y e a r s , app r ox i ma t e l y 3 y e a r s , o r 2 and a ha l f 24

y e a r s when t he Boa r d wa s no t pu r su i ng o r t a k i ng a c t i on 25

39

r ega r d i ng t he a c t i ons o f Ms . G r a y ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 1


I no t e t ha t t he s t a t emen t o f comp l a i n t by 3 Q .

Doc t o r Le i gh r me r e l y s a y s , " Se e A t t a chmen t s . " Wha t 4

a t t a chmen t s we r e t he r e t o t he l e t t e r ? 5

I t l oo k s l i k e t h e y ' r e r e c o r d s f r om B&B Equ i n e 6 A .

De n t i s t r y . 7

Pho t og r aphs o f wha t appe a r t o be r e co r ds? 8 Q .

Ye s . 9 A .

And wha t e l s e i s a t t a ched t o t ha t ? 10 Q .

Loo k s l i k e t h e r e i s a n a r t i c l e f r om Commun i t y 11 A .

L i v i ng . 12

A l l r i gh t , t hank you . 13 Q .

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ok a y , a t t h i s po i n t I wou l d l i k e 14

t o o f f e r Exh i b i t 8 , P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 8 i n t o 15

e v i denc e , aga i n , w i t h t he s t i pu l a t i on t ha t we a r e no t 16

r e l y i ng on t he con t en t o f t he a t t a chmen t s t o t he 17

comp l a i n t . Tha t w i l l be , t o t he e x t en t t he y a r e 18

r e l e v an t t he y w i l l be add r e s s ed by l a t e r t e s t i mony , so 19

we a r e no t r e l y i ng on t he a t t a chmen t s o f t he comp l a i n t 20

i t s e l f t o commun i c a t e any t h i ng o r p r ov e any t h i ng .21


e v i denc e . ) 23

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , we ob j e c t . The r e i s no 24

f ounda t i on e s t ab l i shed f o r wha t t he s e pho t og r aphs a r e 25

40

o r who t he y a r e f r om , wha t t he y pu r po r t t o be . 1

Add i t i ona l l y , t he r e ha s be en no f ounda t i on l a i d f o r t he 2

a r t i c l e t ha t i s t a c k ed on t o t he end o f t h i s e xh i b i t . 3

And onc e aga i n , any p r oba t i v e v a l ue t ha t t he s e i t ems 4

m i gh t ha v e i s ou t we i ghed by t he po t en t i a l p r e j ud i c e t o 5

t he De f endan t . 6

I wou l d a l so add t ha t i f t he r e i s some r e l e v anc e t o 7

t he s e i t ems , t hen t he Boa r d w i l l ha v e i t s oppo r t un i t y 8

t o i n t r oduc e t hem when t he y be come r e l e v an t . I t ' s no t 9

ne c e s s a r i l y , no t ne c e s s a r y t ha t t he y be adm i t t ed a t 10

t h i s t i me . 11

MR . FROWNFELTER : We w i l l ha v e a w i t ne s s who w i l l 12

de s c r i be t he c i r cums t anc e s unde r wh i ch t he pe r son who 13

t ook t he pho t og r aphs i s an t i c i pa t ed t o t e s t i f y and w i l l 14

de s c r i be t he c i r cums t anc e s unde r wh i ch t he y we r e t a k en . 15

Ag a i n , we w i l l no t b e r e f e r r i ng o r r e l y i ng i n a n y 16

wa y on t he a r t i c l e t ha t wa s a t t a ched . Aga i n , t h i s i s 17

me r e l y t o documen t t he p r oc e s s i n t he c a s e . 18

THE COURT : On t he ob j e c t i on ba s ed on f ounda t i on , I 19

wou l d sus t a i n i t , be c aus e I don ' t t h i nk we ' v e he a r d 20

any t h i ng abou t how t h i s r e co r d i s k ep t .21

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) Ms . F ennewa l d , when you 22 Q .

r e c e i v e a comp l a i n t , wha t i s t he p r oc edu r e t ha t you 23

t a k e i n o r de r t o r e co r d t ha t a s a comp l a i n t be f o r e t he 24

Boa r d? 25

41

Wh e n we r e c e i v e a c omp l a i n t we w i l l l og i t i n t o 1 A .

ou r l i c e n s i ng s y s t em , a nd t h a t g i v e s u s a r unn i ng t o t a l 2

o f a l l t h e c omp l a i n t s t h a t we h a v e a nd i f t h e y ' r e op e n 3

o r c l o s e d o r wh a t a c t i on t h e Bo a r d h a s t a k e n on t ho s e 4

c a s e s . 5

And doe s t ha t app l y f o r bo t h comp l a i n t s aga i ns t 6 Q .

l i c ens e e s and un l i c ens ed p r a c t i c e? 7

Ye s . 8 A .

Now I be l i e v e you t e s t i f i ed you a r e t he 9 Q .

cus t od i an o f t he r e co r ds - - o f r e co r ds o f t he Boa r d ; i s 10

t ha t co r r e c t ? 11

Th a t ' s c o r r e c t . 12 A .

I n t h i s c apa c i t y i s i t you r p r a c t i c e t o 13 Q .

ma i n t a i n comp l a i n t s r e c e i v ed by t he Boa r d a s r e co r ds o f 14

t he Boa r d? 15

Ye s . 16 A .

I ' d l i k e t o show you onc e aga i n wha t ha s be en 17 Q .

ma r k ed a s P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 8 . I s t h i s a copy o f a 18

comp l a i n t t ha t wa s r e c e i v ed by t he Boa r d? 19

Ye s , i t i s . 20 A .

I s i t t h e bu s i n e s s p r a c t i c e o f t h e Bo a r d t o 21 Q .

ma k e and k e ep a r e co r d o f comp l a i n t s r e c e i v ed by t he 22

Boa r d? 23

Ye s . 24 A .

I s t h i s documen t a t r ue and co r r e c t copy o f a 25 Q .

42

c omp l a i n t t h a t wa s r e c e i v e d , do c k e t e d a nd a c t e d upon b y 1

t he Boa r d? 2

Ye s .3 A .

I s i t t he o r d i na r y cou r s e o f bus i ne s s o f t he 4 Q .

Boa r d t o ma i n t a i n r e co r ds o f comp l a i n t s t ha t a r e 5

r e c e i v ed and a c t ed upon? 6

Ye s .7 A .

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ok a y , a t t ha t po i n t I wou l d l i k e 8

t o o f f e r t h i s r e co r d a s a bus i ne s s r e co r d o f t he Boa r d 9

documen t i ng a comp l a i n t t ha t wa s r e c e i v ed by t he Boa r d 10

and no t h i ng e l s e .11


e v i denc e . ) 13

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , we ma i n t a i n ou r ob j e c t i on 14

t ha t i t i s no t r e l e v an t , and we wou l d a l so po i n t ou t 15

t ha t w i t h t he e x t r eme l y l i gh t we i gh t t ha t t he 16

Pe t i t i one r ha s pu t on any p r oba t i v e v a l ue o f t h i s 17

do c ume n t , i t i s p l a i n l y ou t we i gh e d b y t h e po t e n t i a l 18

p r e j ud i c e t o t he De f endan t . 19

THE COURT : I ' l l adm i t i t f o r t he l i m i t ed pu r pos e 20

s t a t ed by M r . F r own f e l t e r . So t ha t ' s P l a i n t i f f ' s 21

Exh i b i t No . 8 ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 22

MR . FROWNFELTER : Tha t ' s co r r e c t .23

THE COURT : Thank you .24


43

e v i denc e . )1

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) Upon r e c e i p t o f t h i s 2 Q .

s e cond comp l a i n t , t hen , i n J anua r y o f 2010 , wha t a c t i on 3

d i d you t a k e i n t e r ms o f b r i ng i ng t ha t t o t he Boa r d ' s 4

a t t en t i on? 5

I t wou l d h a v e b e e n p l a c e d on t h e a g e nd a f o r t h e 6 A .

Bo a r d t o r e v i ew . 7

And wha t a c t i on d i d t he Boa r d t a k e upon r e v i ew 8 Q .

o f t ha t comp l a i n t ? 9

Th e y r e f e r r e d i t t o ou r c on t r a c t i n v e s t i g a t o r 10 A .

t o i n v e s t i g a t e . 11

And who i s you r con t r a c t i nv e s t i ga t o r ? 12 Q .

I t i s W i l l i am Bu r t on . 13 A .

Doe s he r egu l a r l y do i nv e s t i ga t i v e wo r k f o r t he 14 Q .

Boa r d? 15

Ye s , h e do e s . 16 A .

I s he a f u l l - t i me emp l oy e e o f t he Boa r d? 17 Q .

No , h e ' s no t . 18 A .

How wa s t he r e f e r r a l o f a ma t t e r by t he Boa r d 19 Q .

commun i c a t ed t o M r . Bu r t on? 20

We s ubm i t a r e f e r r a l f o r m t o M r . Bu r t on . 21 A .

And doe s t h i s con t a i n d i r e c t i ons o r any 22 Q .

i nd i c a t i on o f wha t t he Boa r d wan t s h i m t o d i s cov e r ? 23

Ye s , i t w i l l ou t l i n e d i r e c t i v e s f o r M r . Bu r t on . 24 A .

And how doe s M r . Bu r t on commun i c a t e t he r e su l t s 25 Q .

44

o f h i s i nv e s t i ga t i ons t o t he Boa r d? 1

He w i l l subm i t an i nv e s t i ga t i v e r epo r t t o t he 2 A .

Boa r d ' s o f f i c e . 3

D i d M r . Bu r t on subm i t i nv e s t i ga t i v e r epo r t s 4 Q .

r ega r d i ng h i s i nv e s t i ga t i on o f t he comp l a i n t o f Doc t o r 5

Le i gh r r ega r d i ng B r ook e G r a y? 6

Ye s , he d i d . 7 A .

And do you r e c a l l p r i o r t o t he Boa r d ' s a c t i on 8 Q .

how many r epo r t s he subm i t t ed? 9

Two . 10 A .

When t he Boa r d r e c e i v ed M r . G r a y ' s ( s i c ) 11 Q .

r epo r t s , wha t a c t i ons d i d i t t a k e?12

The Boa r d vo t ed t o r e f e r t he c a s e t o t he 13 A .

a t t o r ne y gene r a l ' s o f f i c e . 14

And i s t ha t wha t l e ad t o t he f i l i ng o f t h i s 15 Q .

c a s e t ha t we ' r e he a r i ng t oda y? 16

Ye s .17 A .

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ha v e no f u r t he r que s t i ons o f 18

t h i s w i t ne s s . 19

THE COURT : M r . Ro l and .20

MR . ROLAND : I f I cou l d ha v e j us t a coup l e o f 21

m i nu t e s , You r Hono r . 22

23

24

25

45

CROSS EXAM I NAT I ON1

BY MR . ROLAND :2

Ms . F ennewa l d , t he Boa r d ' s , one o f t he Boa r d ' s 3 Q .

r e spons i b i l i t i e s i s t o s e e t o t he en f o r c emen t o f 4

Chap t e r 340 ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 5

Tha t i s co r r e c t . 6 A .

And Chap t e r 340 i s t he s e c t i on o f M i s sou r i 7 Q .

s t a t u t e s t ha t de a l s w i t h t he p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y 8

med i c i ne ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 9


A r e you f am i l i a r w i t h t ha t s t a t u t e? 11 Q .

Ye s , I am . 12 A .

I f a membe r o f t he pub l i c ha s a que s t i on abou t 13 Q .

t he s t a t u t e , do you ha v e any s ens e o f who t he y wou l d 14

c a l l t o ha v e t he i r que s t i on answe r ed? 15

The y wou l d c a l l t he Boa r d ' s o f f i c e . 16 A .

Ok a y . And onc e t he y c a l l t he Boa r d ' s o f f i c e , 17 Q .

you wou l d be one o f t he peop l e t ha t m i gh t r e c e i v e t ha t 18

c a l l ; i sn ' t t ha t co r r e c t ? 19

Ye s . 20 A .

So you wou l d be i n a pos i t i on t o commun i c a t e 21 Q .

w i t h membe r s o f t he pub l i c wha t Chap t e r 340 me ans ; 22

co r r e c t ? 23

We cou l d . 24 A .

Wha t que s t i ons cou l d you no t answe r ? 25 Q .

46

We c ou l d no t i n t e r p r e t t h e l aw f o r t h e pub l i c . 1 A .

So i f someone c a l l ed you and s a i d , I ' m no t su r e 2 Q .

i f any spe c i f i c p r a c t i c e me e t s t he de f i n i t i on o f 3

v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne , you cou l d no t answe r t ha t 4

que s t i on? 5

We c ou l d no t i f i t ' s - - we ma y h a v e t o r e f e r 6 A .

t ho s e qu e s t i on s t o t h e Bo a r d f o r r e v i ew . 7

Bu t i n f a c t you do some t i me s answe r t hos e 8 Q .

que s t i ons , don ' t you? 9

I f t h e y a r e i n b l a c k a nd wh i t e we do , y e s . I f 10 A .

i t i s i n ou r s t a t u t e . 11

And wha t wou l d you cons i de r a que s t i on t ha t 12 Q .

wou l d be i n b l a c k and wh i t e? 13

I f t h e y c a l l up a nd a s k i f - - I don ' t k now - - 14 A .

i f d e n t i s t r y i s t h e p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i n a r y me d i c i n e ; 15

s i n c e i t i s a c t u a l l y l i s t e d i n t h e P r a c t i c e Ac t , we 16

c ou l d t e l l t h em t h a t i t i s l i s t e d i n t h e d e f i n i t i on . 17

Ok a y . And wha t abou t i f someone a s k s you a 18 Q .

que s t i on abou t ma s s age t he r apy? 19

Us u a l l y t ho s e qu e s t i on s a r e d i r e c t e d t o t h e 20 A .

Boa r d . 21

Do you r emembe r t e s t i f y i ng a t you r depos i t i on 22 Q .

t ha t you cou l d answe r que s t i ons abou t ma s s age t he r apy? 23

I do . 24 A .

I s i t now you r pos i t i on t ha t you answe r ed t ha t 25 Q .

47

que s t i on i nco r r e c t l y a t you r depos i t i on? 1

We l l i f t h e Bo a r d h a s a l r e a d y ma d e a r u l i ng on 2 A .

t h a t i s s u e , we c ou l d t y p i c a l l y t e l l t h em t h a t . 3

Ok a y . So among t he i s sue s t ha t t he Boa r d ha s 4 Q .

a l r e ady made a de c i s i on on , f o r e x amp l e , i f t he Boa r d 5

ha s made a de c i s i on t ha t c a s t r a t i on i s t he p r a c t i c e o f 6

v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 7

I don ' t k now i f t h e y h a v e . 8 A .

MR . ROLAND : I apo l og i z e , I don ' t ha v e t he s e ma r k ed 9

a s e xh i b i t numbe r s y e t . Ma y I app r oa ch? 10

THE COURT : Ye s . 11

( BY MR . ROLAND) Ms . F ennewa l d , do you 12 Q .

r e cogn i z e t ha t l e t t e r ? 13

Ye s , I do . 14 A .

And wha t doe s i t appe a r t o be? 15 Q .

I t i s a c e a s e a nd d e s i s t l e t t e r . 16 A .

I s i t a l e t t e r t ha t you w r o t e? 17 Q .

Ye s , i t i s . 18 A .

And wha t da t e wa s t h i s w r i t t en? 19 Q .

J u l y 19 t h , 2007 . 20 A .

Cou l d you r e ad t he f i r s t s en t enc e o f t he f i r s t 21 Q .

f u l l pa r ag r aph t he r e? 22

" The M i s sou r i Ve t e r i na r y Med i c a l Boa r d ha s 23 A .

i n f o r ma t i on t h a t i nd i c a t e s y ou ma y b e p r o v i d i ng h e r d 24

wo r k , wh i c h ma y i n c l ud e v a c c i n a t i on , c a s t r a t i on , 25

48

d e - ho r n i ng s e r v i c e s , w i t hou t a M i s s ou r i v e t e r i n a r y 1

me d i c a l l i c e n s e a nd f o r c omp e n s a t i on . " 2

So i s i t you r unde r s t and i ng t ha t t he Boa r d ha s 3 Q .

now t a k en a pos i t i on on v a c c i na t i on and c a s t r a t i on and 4

deho r n i ng?5

Th e y wou l d h a v e h a d t o v o t e i n o r d e r t o s e nd 6 A .

t h i s l e t t e r , a f u l l Bo a r d v o t e . 7

So you r pos i t i on i s t ha t - - you r t e s t i mony i s 8 Q .

t ha t t he y ha v e t a k en a pos i t i on on t he s e ma t t e r s? 9

Th e y h a v e v o t e d t o r e f e r t h i s , o r t o t e l l t h a t 10 A .

i nd i v i du a l t h a t t h a t i s t h e p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i n a r y 11

me d i c i n e , y e s . 12

Ok a y . To t he be s t o f you r unde r s t and i ng , i s 13 Q .

t he Boa r d ' s de c i s i on t o t e l l t h i s i nd i v i dua l t ha t t he s e 14

p r a c t i c e s a r e t he p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne , i s 15

t ha t b i nd i ng on t he Boa r d i n t he f u t u r e? 16

I me a n , t h e Bo a r d c h a ng e s , s o i t c ou l d b e , y ou 17 A .

k now , a d i f f e r e n t s e t o f Bo a r d memb e r s c ou l d l oo k a t 18

t h i s i n f o r ma t i on a nd d e t e r m i n e t h a t i t i s no t t h e 19

p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i n a r y me d i c i n e . 20

So i t ' s pos s i b l e t ha t now t ha t t he compos i t i on 21 Q .

o f t he Boa r d i s chang i ng t ha t wha t wa s onc e cons i de r ed 22

un l aw f u l ma y be come cons i de r ed l aw f u l ? 23

I t ' s a po s s i b i l i t y . 24 A .

And v i c e v e r s a? 25 Q .

49

I me a n , i t wou l d b e t h e d e c i s i on o f t h e Bo a r d . 1 A .

Th e Bo a r d wou l d h a v e t o r e v i ew t h e c a s e , a nd t h e y wou l d 2

h a v e t o d e t e r m i n e i f i t i s t h e p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i n a r y 3

me d i c i n e . 4

Ok a y . Bu t when t he Boa r d ma k e s one o f t he s e 5 Q .

de t e r m i n a t i ons , t he y do no t p r omu l ga t e a r u l e t o do so , 6

do t he y? 7

No t a l wa y s . 8 A .

Ok a y . So , i n o t he r wo r ds , a c i t i z en o f 9 Q .

M i s sou r i ma y no t know f r om one da y t o t he ne x t w i t h any 10

c e r t a i n t y wha t i s and i s no t a l l owed unde r t he s t a t u t e ; 11

i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 12

I t c a n c h a ng e . 13 A .

Ok a y . Ms . F ennewa l d , you ' r e awa r e , a r en ' t you , 14 Q .

t ha t t he un l i c ens ed p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne i s 15

a c r i m i n a l o f f ens e? 16

Ye s . 17 A .

And i n f a c t , t h i s l e t t e r conv e y s t ha t t he 18 Q .

un l i c ens ed p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne i s a 19

c r i m i n a l o f f ens e , doe sn ' t i t ? 20

I t s a y s t h a t t h e y c ou l d - - i f t h i s c ondu c t i s 21 A .

no t s t opp e d i t c ou l d p r e - - t h e Bo a r d c ou l d r e qu e s t t h e 22

p r o s e c u t o r t o f i l e c r i m i n a l c h a r g e s a g a i n s t t h e 23

i nd i v i du a l . 24

So you r t e s t i mony i s t ha t a c i t i z en ' s l i be r t y 25 Q .

50

cou l d v e r y we l l depend on t he compos i t i on o f t he Boa r d 1

r a t he r t han t he t e x t o f t h i s l aw ; i sn ' t t ha t co r r e c t ? 2

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ob j e c t i on , t ha t wa sn ' t he r 3

t e s t i mony . He ' s r e s t a t i ng he r t e s t i mony . I t h i nk t he 4

que s t i on ne eds t o be a s k ed i n t e r ms o f t he p r opos i t i on 5

r a t he r t han s t a t i ng some t h i ng t ha t she ha s no t 6

t e s t i f i ed t o . 7

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , my s t a t emen t wa s - - o r my 8

que s t i on wa s i f t he s t a t emen t wa s co r r e c t . I f she 9

t h i nk s t ha t my s t a t emen t wa s no t co r r e c t I c an a s k a 10

d i f f e r en t que s t i on . 11

THE COURT : Ov e r r u l ed . 12

( BY MR . ROLAND ) I s i t you r t e s t i mony t ha t a 13 Q .

c i t i z en ' s l i be r t y cou l d depend on t he compos i t i on o f 14

t h e Bo a r d r a t h e r t h a n t h e l a ngu a g e o f t h e s t a t u t e ? 15

I f i t i s no t i n t h e s t a t u t e l i k e b l a c k a nd 16 A .

wh i t e l i k e I h a d i nd i c a t e d p r e v i ou s , t h a t wou l d b e , 17

h a v e t o b e a d e t e r m i n a t i on o f t h e Bo a r d . 18

A r e you awa r e o f anywhe r e i n t he s t a t u t e t ha t 19 Q .

i t ma k e s r e f e r e n c e t o c a s t r a t i on? 20

I do no t . 21 A .


i t ma k e s r e f e r enc e t o deho r n i ng? 23

I do no t . 24 A .


51

ma k e s r e f e r e n c e t o h e r d wo r k ? 1

I do no t . 2 A .

And so i f t he compos i t i on o f t he Boa r d changed 3 Q .

t omo r r ow , t h i s l e t t e r m i gh t ne v e r go ou t ; i sn ' t t ha t 4

co r r e c t ? 5

Th a t wou l d h a v e t o b e up t o t h e Bo a r d .6 A .

I t ' s up t o t he Boa r d t hough?7 Q .

I t i s up t o t h e Bo a r d . 8 A .

I t i s no t a que s t i on o f wha t t he l anguage o f 9 Q .

t he l aw i s? 10

I t wou l d b e a Bo a r d d e c i s i on . 11 A .

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , I wou l d l i k e t o ma r k t h i s 12

a s De f endan t ' s Exh i b i t 1 . 13

THE COURT : The cou r t r epo r t e r c an ma r k i t f o r you 14

o r you c an , she ' l l g i v e you a s t i c k e r t o do t ha t .15

( De f endan t ' s Exh i b i t No . 1 wa s o f f e r ed i n t o16

e v i denc e . ) 17

MR . ROLAND : Thank you . Any ob j e c t i on? 18

MR . FROWNFELTER : No ob j e c t i on . 19

THE COURT : De f endan t ' s No . 1 w i l l b e adm i t t ed . 20

Th a n k y ou .21

( De f endan t ' s Exh i b i t No . 1 wa s adm i t t ed i n t o22

e v i denc e . ) 23

MR . ROLAND : Ma y I app r oa ch , You r Hono r ? 24

THE COURT : Ye s .25

52

( BY MR . ROLAND ) Ms . F ennewa l d , do you 1 Q .

r e cogn i z e t h i s documen t t ha t I ' m hand i ng t o you? 2

Ye s , I do . 3 A .

And wha t doe s i t appe a r t o be? 4 Q .

I t i s a l e t t e r s e n t r e g a r d i ng ma s s a g e on 5 A .

a n i ma l s , t e e t h f l o a t i ng , p e r f o r m i ng ma s s a g e on a n i ma l s . 6

And wha t i s t he da t e on t h i s l e t t e r ? 7 Q .

Ap r i l 16 t h , 2009 . 8 A .

So i s i t you r unde r s t and i ng t ha t p r i o r t o 9 Q .

s end i ng t h i s l e t t e r , t he Boa r d t ook a vo t e and de c i ded 10

t ha t pe r f o r m i ng ma s s age on an i ma l s cons t i t u t ed t he 11

p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne? 12

Th a t i s wh a t t h e l e t t e r i nd i c a t e s , y e s . 13 A .

So a t l e a s t a s o f Ap r i l 16 t h , an o r d i na r y 14 Q .

c i t i z en m i gh t be ab l e t o know t ha t ma s s age i s a 15

v i o l a t i on o f l aw ; co r r e c t ? 16


Bu t a s o f Sep t embe r 27 t h , 2011 , a c i t i z en wou l d 18 Q .

no t ha v e an a s su r anc e a s t o whe t he r ma s s age wou l d be 19

cons i de r ed a v i o l a t i on o f t he l aw o r no t , wou l d t he y? 20

Th a t i s s u e wou l d h a v e t o go i n f r on t o f t h e 21 A .

Bo a r d . 22

So t he y wou l dn ' t ha v e a s su r anc e? 23 Q .

Th e y wou l d h a v e a s s u r a n c e on c e i t we n t i n f r on t 24 A .

o f t h e Bo a r d a nd t h e Bo a r d v o t e d on t h a t i s s u e . 25

53

Doe s t he Boa r d p l an t o me e t be f o r e Sep t embe r 1 Q .

27 t h , 2011? 2

No , i t do e s no t . 3 A .

So a c i t i z en wou l d no t ha v e a s su r anc e by t ha t 4 Q .

da t e , wou l d t he y? 5

We l l t h e y - - i f t h e y c on t a c t e d ou r o f f i c e t h e y 6 A .

wou l d b e a s k e d t o pu t t h a t i n f o r ma t i on i n w r i t i ng , a nd 7

t h e Bo a r d wou l d r e v i ew i t a t t h e i r n e x t Bo a r d me e t i ng . 8

Bu t t he c i t i z en wou l d no t ha v e any a s su r anc e a s 9 Q .

t o wha t wa s o r wa s no t pe r m i t t ed unde r t he l aw un t i l 10

t he Boa r d me t and vo t ed on i t ; co r r e c t ? 11

Th e y wou l d h a v e t o me e t a nd v o t e on i t , y e s . 12 A .

Ok a y . And t h i s l e t t e r a l so t h r e a t ens po t en t i a l 13 Q .

c r i m i na l p r os e cu t i on ; doe s i t no t ? 14

I t h a s t h e s ame s t a t eme n t t h a t t h e Bo a r d c ou l d 15 A .

r e qu e s t t h e p r o s e c u t o r t o f i l e c r i m i n a l c h a r g e s a g a i n s t 16

t h em i f t h e y do no t s t op t h e , t h e i r c ondu c t . 17

Ok a y . 18 Q .

MR . ROLAND : I ' d l i k e t o ha v e t h i s i t em ma r k ed a s 19

De f endan t ' s Exh i b i t 2 and en t e r ed i n t o e v i denc e .20


e v i denc e . ) 22


THE COURT : De f endan t ' s 2 w i l l be adm i t t ed . 24


54

e v i denc e . ) 1

( BY MR . ROLAND) Ms . F ennewa l d , do you 2 Q .

r e cogn i z e t h i s documen t ? 3

Ye s , I do . 4 A .

Wha t doe s i t appe a r t o be? 5 Q .

I t i s a c e a s e a nd d e s i s t l e t t e r . 6 A .

And wha t i s t he a c t i v i t y t ha t t he Boa r d i s 7 Q .

i ns t r uc t i ng t he c i t i z en t o c e a s e and de s i s t ? 8

P r o v i d i ng d e n t a l p r oph y l a x i s w i t hou t a M i s s ou r i 9 A .

v e t e r i n a r y l i c e n s e . 10

And wha t i s t he da t e on t h i s i t em? 11 Q .

J un e 21 s t , 2005 . 12 A .

And doe s t h i s l e t t e r a l so t h r e a t en c r i m i n a l 13 Q .

cha r ge s aga i ns t t he r e c i p i en t o f t he l e t t e r ? 14

I t h a s t h e s ame s t a t eme n t , t h a t t h e Bo a r d c ou l d 15 A .

r e qu e s t t h e p r o s e c u t o r t o f i l e c r i m i n a l c h a r g e s a g a i n s t 16

t h em i f t h e y do no t s t op t h e c ondu c t . 17

Ok a y . So a t l e a s t a s o f June 21s t , 2005 , a 18 Q .

c i t i z en cou l d be r e a sonab l y c e r t a i n t ha t , t ha t den t a l 19

p r ophy l a x i s f e l l w i t h i n t he de f i n i t i on o f v e t e r i na r y 20

med i c i ne ; co r r e c t ? 21

I t h i n k d e n t a l p r oph y l a x i s i s me n t i on e d i n t h e 22 A .

r u l e . 23

I n wh i ch r u l e? 24 Q .

O f t h e Bo a r d . I don ' t k now t h e r u l e numb e r .25 A .

55

MR . ROLAND : I wou l d l i k e t o o f f e r t h i s i n t o 1

e v i denc e a s De f endan t ' s Exh i b i t 3 .2

(De f endan t ' s Exh i b i t No . 3 wa s o f f e r ed i n t o3

e v i denc e . ) 4


THE COURT : De f endan t ' s 3 w i l l be adm i t t ed .6

(De f endan t ' s Exh i b i t No . 3 wa s adm i t t ed i n t o7

e v i denc e . )8

( BY MR . ROLAND) Ms . F ennewa l d , i n any o f t he s e 9 Q .

c a s e s , t o t he be s t o f you r know l edge , d i d t he Boa r d 10

e xp l a i n i t s f i nd i ngs t o t he r e c i p i en t o f t hos e l e t t e r s? 11

Th e y wou l d h a v e r e c e i v e d a l e t t e r , t h a t l e t t e r . 12 A .

Tha t l e t t e r i s t he sum t o t a l o f t he e xp l ana t i on 13 Q .

t ha t t he s e c i t i z ens wou l d r e c e i v e f r om t he s t a t e? 14

Th a t i s wh a t t h e y wou l d r e c e i v e . 15 A .

We r e t he s e c i t i z ens e v e r g i v en an oppo r t un i t y 16 Q .

t o d i s cus s t h i s ma t t e r w i t h t he Boa r d p r i o r t o t he 17

c e a s e and de s i s t l e t t e r be i ng s en t ou t ? 18

P r ob a b l y no t t h e Bo a r d , bu t t h e y c a n r e qu e s t a 19 A .

me e t i ng w i t h t h e Bo a r d a t a n y t i me . 20

And wha t a r e t he p r oc edu r e s i n p l a c e f o r a 21 Q .

c i t i z en t o r eque s t a me e t i ng w i t h t he Boa r d? 22

I f t h e y c on t a c t ou r o f f i c e , t h e n we wou l d t e l l 23 A .

t h em wh a t t h e p r o c e du r e i s . 24

And wha t i s t he p r oc edu r e? 25 Q .

56

To , t h e y wou l d h a v e t o w r i t e i n a nd l e t u s k now 1 A .

t h a t t h e y wou l d l i k e t o me e t w i t h t h e Bo a r d a nd we 2

wou l d pu t t h em on t h e a g e nd a f o r t h e Bo a r d t o , t o 3

a pp e a r w i t h t h em . 4

Ha s t ha t p r oc edu r e e v e r be en f o r ma l i z ed i n any 5 Q .

wa y? 6

I t ' s j u s t t h e Bo a r d ' s po l i c y . We don ' t h a v e a 7 A .

r u l e o r a n y t h i ng on i t , no . 8

I s t he r e anywhe r e t ha t a c i t i z en m i gh t l ook and 9 Q .

r e a l i z e t ha t t he y ha v e t h i s op t i on a v a i l ab l e t o t hem? 10

No t t h a t I ' m awa r e o f . 11 A .

So my unde r s t and i ng i s you r t e s t i mony i s t ha t 12 Q .

t he s e de f endan t s m i gh t ha v e an oppo r t un i t y t o add r e s s 13

t he Boa r d , bu t t he y wou l d ne v e r be t o l d d i r e c t l y t ha t 14

t he y had an oppo r t un i t y t o add r e s s t he Boa r d ; i s t ha t 15

r i gh t ? 16

I nd i v i du a l s t h a t c on t a c t ou r o f f i c e a r e t o l d 17 A .

t h a t . I f t h e y a r e - - i f t h e y wa n t t o me e t w i t h t h e 18

Bo a r d , we p r o v i d e t h em w i t h t h e i n s t r u c t i on s t o do s o . 19

And i n t he c a s e o f ma s s age and c a s t r a t i on and 20 Q .

deho r n i ng , j us t t o be c e r t a i n , t o t he be s t o f you r 21

know l edge t he Boa r d ne v e r f o r ma l l y p r omu l ga t ed a r u l e 22

e xp l a i n i ng why t he y cons i de r ed t hos e p r a c t i c e s t o be 23

t he p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne? 24

No t t h a t I ' m awa r e o f . 25 A .

57

The r e s e ems t o ha v e be en some con f us i on a t 1 Q .

v a r i ous t i me s abou t whe t he r t he l aw p r oh i b i t s any a c t 2

t ha t m i gh t f a l l w i t h i n t he de f i n i t i on o f v e t e r i na r y 3

med i c i ne o r whe t he r one mus t a c c ep t compens a t i on f o r 4

pe r f o r m i ng t he a c t i n o r de r f o r i t t o f a l l w i t h i n t he 5

de f i n i t i on o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne . 6

A r e you ab l e t o c l a r i f y whe t he r t he Boa r d 7

cons i de r s t he a c c ep t anc e o f compens a t i on a 8

p r e - r equ i s i t e t o a v i o l a t i on o f t he l aw? 9

We do no t p r o v i d e t h a t k i nd o f i n f o r ma t i on ; 10 A .

t h a t i s up t o t h e Bo a r d . 11

So i t ' s ano t he r one o f t hos e s i t ua t i ons whe r e 12 Q .

one da y t he Boa r d ma y de c i de t ha t i f t he r e ' s no 13

compens a t i on t he r e ' s no f ou l , and ano t he r da y t he y 14

m i gh t de c i de t ha t i f t he r e ' s no compens a t i on t he r e i s a 15

f ou l ? 16

Th e Bo a r d i s c on s i s t e n t w i t h mo s t o f t h e i r 17 A .

r u l i ng s , bu t t h a t h a s t o b e a Bo a r d d e c i s i on . I do no t 18

ma k e t hos e de c i s i ons . 19

So i n o t he r wo r ds , depend i ng on t he mood o f t he 20 Q .

Boa r d ' s membe r s , on one da y a c i t i z en m i gh t be a l l owed 21

t o f l oa t ho r s e s ' t e e t h a s l ong a s t he y ' r e no t a c c ep t i ng 22

compens a t i on f o r i t , and on ano t he r da y i f t he Boa r d 23

change s i t s m i nd , t ha t s ame c i t i z en wou l d no t be ab l e 24

t o f l oa t t e e t h unde r any c i r cums t anc e s un l e s s i t wa s 25

58

t he i r own an i ma l ? 1

Th e Bo a r d i s c on s i s t e n t i n t h e i r r u l i ng s . 2 A .

Th e y , t h e i r mood s do no t c ome i n t o p l a y w i t h c a s e s t h a t 3

t h e y r e v i ew . 4

We l l , bu t you t e s t i f i ed e a r l i e r t ha t t he 5 Q .

compos i t i on o f t he Boa r d c an ma k e a d i f f e r enc e? 6

We l l y ou h a v e d i f f e r e n t memb e r s . Th e y h a v e 7 A .

d i f f e r e n t op i n i on s . Bu t t h e i r mood s ma y no t - - t h e i r 8

mood s do no t h a v e a n y t h i ng t o do w i t h i t . 9

Ok a y . So you ' r e s a y i ng t ha t t he Boa r d ' s 10 Q .

de c i s i on ma k i ng - - i s t he r e , i s t he r e any - - 11

To t he be s t o f you r know l edge i s t he r e any 12

r equ i r emen t f o r an i nd i v i dua l Boa r d membe r t o be 13

cons i s t en t ? 14

I s t h e r e a r e qu i r eme n t f o r t h em t o b e 15 A .

c on s i s t e n t ? Th e r e ' s no t h i ng i n ou r P r a c t i c e Ac t t h a t 16

s a y s t h e y h a v e t o b e c on s i s t e n t w i t h t h e i r r u l i ng s . 17

So you r e xpe r i enc e i s t ha t , gene r a l l y , boa r d 18 Q .

membe r s a r e cons i s t en t ; co r r e c t ? 19

Ye s . 20 A .

Bu t , i f a Boa r d membe r ha s a change o f he a r t , 21 Q .

t he r e ' s no t h i ng t ha t r equ i r e s t hem t o vo t e a s t he y ha v e 22

p r e v i ous l y on any g i v en i s sue ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 23

No . O r y e s , t h a t i s c o r r e c t . I ' m s o r r y . 24 A .

To t he be s t o f you r know l edge ha s t he Boa r d 25 Q .

59

e v e r d i s cus s ed whe t he r a pa r t i cu l a r a c t wou l d 1

cons t i t u t e t he p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne ba s ed on 2

whe t he r t he pe r son pe r f o r m i ng t ha t a c t a c c ep t ed 3

compens a t i on f o r i t ? 4

Th e y d i s c u s s t h a t . 5 A .

The y ha v e d i s cus s ed t ha t . 6 Q .

Do you know i f t he y ha v e come t o a r e so l u t i on 7

on t ha t po i n t ? 8

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ha v e t o en t e r an ob j e c t i on t ha t 9

t he que s t i on ne eds t o spe c i f y whe t he r M r . Ro l and i s 10

t a l k i ng abou t d i s cus s i on i n gene r a l t e r ms o r on an 11

i nd i v i dua l c a s e . D i s cus s i on t ha t t a k e s p l a c e i n t he 12

con t e x t o f an i nd i v i dua l c a s e wou l d be a c l os ed 13

de l i be r a t e o f r e co r d , unde r t he t e r ms o f M i s sou r i l aw , 14

and Ms . F ennewa l d i s no t pe r m i t t ed t o d i s cus s t he 15

con t en t o f any de l i be r a t i ons t ha t t he Boa r d unde r t ook 16

w i t h r ega r d t o a pa r t i cu l a r c a s e . 17

So i n o r de r f o r t he que s t i on t o be a s k ed , i t 18

wou l d - - he ne eds t o spe c i f y whe t he r he ' s t a l k i ng abou t 19

a gene r a l p r i nc i p l e o r a pa r t i cu l a r c a s e . 20

THE COURT : I ' l l sus t a i n t he ob j e c t i on and I ' l l 21

a l l ow you t o r e a s k i t i n a wa y t ha t I do t h i nk t ha t i t 22

m i gh t be s i gn i f i c an t . As k i t bo t h wa y s i f you w i sh .23

( BY MR . ROLAND) As a gene r a l ma t t e r , no t 24 Q .

r e f e r enc i ng any spe c i f i c c a s e , ha s t he Boa r d come t o a , 25

60

sha l l we s a y , i n f o r ma l r e so l u t i on a s t o whe t he r 1

compens a t i on i s r equ i r ed f o r a f i nd i ng t ha t t he 2

un l i c ens ed p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne ha s t a k en 3

p l a c e? 4

Th e i r r u l i ng wou l d b e b a s e d on c a s e s , no t j u s t 5 A .

i n gene r a l . 6

So t he r e i s no wa y f o r a c i t i z en t o know 7 Q .

whe t he r t he y wou l d v i o l a t e t he l aw i f t he y a c c ep t ed 8

compens a t i on f o r he l p i ng a ne i ghbo r cu t t he i r - - 9

Th e y wou l d on c e i t wa s b r ough t t o t h e Bo a r d a nd 10 A .

t he Boa r d made t ha t r u l i ng , y e s . 11

Bu t t he y wou l dn ' t know a t t he t i me t ha t t he 12 Q .

que s t i on appe a r ed , t he y wou l d ha v e t o wa i t f o r t he 13

Boa r d t o add r e s s t he ma t t e r ; co r r e c t ? 14

Th e y wou l d h a v e t o w r i t e t h e Bo a r d a nd t h e 15 A .

Boa r d wou l d ha v e t o ma k e t ha t de t e r m i n a t i on . 16

And i n t he me an t i me t he y a c t a t t he i r own 17 Q .

pe r i l ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 18

Mo s t i nd i v i du a l s w i l l ho l d o f f f o r Bo a r d 19 A .

de c i s i ons . 20

I s i t you r unde r s t and i ng t ha t an i nd i v i dua l ' s 21 Q .

e xpe r i enc e w i t h a pa r t i cu l a r p r a c t i c e ha s any be a r i ng 22

wha t soe v e r on whe t he r t he y a r e pe r m i t t ed t o pe r f o r m an 23

a c t t ha t m i gh t me e t t he de f i n i t i on o f v e t e r i na r y 24

med i c i ne? 25

61

Th e Bo a r d do e s no t l oo k a t e x p e r i e n c e . I t h i n k 1 A .

t ha t ' s wha t you ' r e a s k i ng . 2

Ye s , t ha t i s wha t I ' m a s k i ng . So you ' r e 3 Q .

s a y i ng , a s f a r a s t he Boa r d i s conc e r ned , un l e s s one 4

ho l ds a l i c ens e , e xpe r i enc e i s i r r e l e v an t ? 5

Co r r e c t . 6 A .

And s i m i l a r l y , wou l d i t be you r t e s t i mony t ha t 7 Q .

t he Boa r d doe s no t cons i de r t he l i k e l i hood o f i n j u r y 8

when e v a l ua t i ng whe t he r a g i v en p r a c t i c e me e t s t he 9

de f i n i t i on o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne? 10

I f t h e y g e t a c omp l a i n t a nd t h e r e ' s i n j u r y , I 11 A .

me an t he y l ook a t t ha t . 12

Bu t wou l d i t be you r t e s t i mony t ha t - - i s t ha t 13 Q .

t he on l y c i r cums t anc e unde r wh i ch t he Boa r d wou l d 14

cons i de r - - and t h i s i s a gene r a l ma t t e r no t any 15

spe c i f i c c a s e , wou l d t he Boa r d - - a r e t he r e any o t he r 16

c i r cums t anc e s unde r wh i ch t he Boa r d m i gh t e v a l ua t e t he 17

l i k e l i hood o f i n j u r y when i t ' s de t e r m i n i ng whe t he r an 18

a c t cons t i t u t e s t he p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne? 19

I me an , I gue s s t he y wou l d l ook a t i n j u r y . I 20 A .

me an , I ' m no t su r e a t t h i s po i n t . 21

Ok a y . A r e you awa r e o f any pa r t o f t he s t a t u t e 22 Q .

t ha t wou l d change i t s app l i c ab i l i t y t o 23

non - v e t e r i na r i ans ba s ed on whe t he r t he a c t t he y we r e 24

engaged i n pos ed a t h r e a t o f i n j u r y? 25

62

I ' m no t und e r s t a nd i ng y ou r qu e s t i on , I gu e s s . 1 A .

You ' v e t e s t i f i ed t ha t you ' r e f am i l i a r w i t h 2 Q .

Chap t e r 340? 3

R i gh t . 4 A .

And you ' r e f am i l i a r w i t h t he wa y t ha t i t 5 Q .

app l i e s t o non - v e t e r i na r i ans ; co r r e c t ? 6

R i gh t . 7 A .

Ok a y . My que s t i on i s , t he s e c t i ons o f t he 8 Q .

s t a t u t e t ha t wou l d be app l i c ab l e t o non - v e t e r i na r i ans 9

do no t ha v e any v a r i ab l e s t ha t add r e s s t he l i k e l i hood 10

o f i n j u r y o f a pa r t i cu l a r a c t ? 11

I don ' t t h i n k s o . 12 A .

Ok a y . I sn ' t t he Boa r d awa r e t ha t some ho r s e 13 Q .

owne r s wou l d p r e f e r t o ha v e a non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t 14

t he i r ho r s e s ' t e e t h? 15

I ' m no t s u r e i f t h e y ' r e awa r e o f t h a t . 16 A .

Ha s t he Boa r d r e c e i v ed a l e t t e r t o t ha t e f f e c t ? 17 Q .

Th e y ma y h a v e , I ' m j u s t no t r e c a l l i ng i t r i gh t 18 A .

now . 19

Do you r e cogn i z e t ha t l e t t e r ? 20 Q .

I don ' t r e c a l l t h e l e t t e r , bu t i t i s d a t e d , o r 21 A .

s e n t t o t h e Bo a r d , s o I ' m s u r e we h a v e i t i n ou r f i l e . 22

You a r e t he cus t od i an o f r e co r ds f o r t he Boa r d? 23 Q .


Do you ha v e any r e a son t o be l i e v e t ha t t h i s 25 Q .

63

l e t t e r wa s no t p r oduc ed t o me du r i ng d i s cov e r y a s pa r t 1

o f t he Boa r d ' s r e spons e t o a r eque s t f o r documen t s? 2

I t h a s ou r da t e s t amp on i t , I ' m su r e i t i s 3 A .

f r om ou r o f f i c e ; I j u s t d i d no t r e c a l l i t . 4

Ok a y . And wha t ' s t he da t e on t h i s l e t t e r ? 5 Q .

Ma y 27 t h , 2010 . 6 A .

Cou l d you r e ad t he s e cond pa r ag r aph , p l e a s e . 7 Q .

" We h a v e h a d v e t e r i n a r i a n s p e r f o r m d e n t i s t r y 8 A .

wo r k on ou r ho r s e s i n t h e p a s t . We c a n c omp a r e t h e 9

wo r k don e b y v e t e r i n a r i a n s t o t h e wo r k don e b y B r oo k e 10

G r a y . He r wo r k i s e x c e p t i on a l l y p r o f e s s i on a l a nd 11

t ho r ough . We c a nno t b e mo r e p l e a s e d w i t h t h e emp a t h y 12

s h e s hows wo r k i ng w i t h ou r ho r s e s . We h a v e f ound h e r 13

wo r k p r odu c t t o b e e x c e l l e n t . Sh e h a s p r o v e n t h a t s h e 14

c a n c a r e f o r t h e d e n t i s t r y n e e d s o f ou r ho r s e s i n a 15

s k i l l ed and p r o f i c i en t manne r . " 16

Bu t t he f a c t o r s t ha t a r e d i s cus s ed by t he 17 Q .

peop l e who w r o t e t h i s l e t t e r wou l d no t be cons i de r ed by 18

t he Boa r d , wou l d t he y , i n de t e r m i n i ng whe t he r someone 19

had engaged i n t he p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne? 20

Th i s l e t t e r wou l d be p r ov i ded t o t he Boa r d . 21 A .

Ok a y . Can you t h i nk o f any c i r cums t anc e i n 22 Q .

wh i ch i t m i gh t change t he ou t come o f a de t e r m i na t i on? 23

I c ou l d no t , no .24 A .

MR . ROLAND : I wou l d l i k e t o ha v e t h i s ma r k ed a s 4 , 25

64

and I wou l d l i k e t o o f f e r i t i n t o e v i denc e .1


e v i denc e . ) 3


THE COURT : De f endan t ' s 4 w i l l be adm i t t ed .5

(De f endan t ' s Exh i b i t No . 4 wa s adm i t t ed i n t o6

e v i denc e . ) 7

( BY MR . ROLAND) Ms . F ennewa l d , a r e you awa r e 8 Q .

o f any c a s e p r i o r t o t h i s one i n wh i ch t he M i s sou r i 9

Ve t e r i na r y Med i c a l Boa r d ha s a s k ed a Cou r t t o r u l e t ha t 10

a f l oa t e r had engaged i n t he p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y 11

med i c i ne? 12

No . 13 A .

And you ' v e be en w i t h t he Boa r d 16 y e a r s now? 14 Q .

Ye s . 15 A .

You ' v e be en e x e cu t i v e d i r e c t o r 16 y e a r s . 16 Q .

You ' v e a c t ua l l y be en w i t h t he Boa r d a l mos t 20 y e a r s 17

now ; co r r e c t ? 18

I ' v e b e e n t h e e x e c u t i v e d i r e c t o r s i n c e 1995 . 19 A .

A r e you awa r e o f any s i gn i f i c an t change s t o t he 20 Q .

l anguage o f t he de f i n i t i on f o r v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne i n 21

t hos e 16 y e a r s? 22

I n 1992 t h e y r ew r o t e t h e P r a c t i c e Ac t , bu t I 23 A .

c ou l dn ' t t e l l y ou s p e c i f i c a l l y wh a t c h a ng e d i n t h e r e . 24

You ' r e no t awa r e o f any s i gn i f i c an t change 25 Q .

65

s i nc e 1992? 1

No . 2 A .

A r e you awa r e o f whe t he r t he Boa r d ha s e v e r 3 Q .

r e s e a r ched t he l i k e l i hood o f a l a y f l oa t e r i n j u r i ng a 4

ho r s e? 5

Th e Bo a r d h a s no t . 6 A .

And s i m i l a r l y , t he y ha v e no t r e s e a r ched t he 7 Q .

l i k e l i hood o f a l a y f l oa t e r i n j u r i ng ano t he r pe r son ; 8

co r r e c t ? 9

The y ha v e no t . 10 A .

And p r i o r t o i n i t i a t i ng t he cu r r en t a c t i on , 11 Q .

t he y d i d no t r e s e a r ch whe t he r M i s sou r i had enough 12

v e t e r i na r i ans t o adequa t e l y me e t t he ne eds o f t he 13

equ i ne popu l a t i on , d i d t he y? 14

We h a v e no t , no . 15 A .

To t he be s t o f you r know l edge ha s t he 16 Q .

Ve t e r i na r y Med i c a l Boa r d t a k en any so r t o f an a c t i on 17

wha t soe v e r aga i ns t a f a r r i e r ? 18

No t t h a t I ' m awa r e o f , no . 19 A .

A t you r depos i t i on you t e s t i f i ed t ha t i f 20 Q .

someone c a l l ed w i t h a que s t i on abou t t e e t h f l oa t i ng , 21

you r r e spons e wou l d be t ha t t he y wou l d e i t he r ha v e t o 22

be a l i c ens ed v e t e r i na r i an o r unde r t he i mmed i a t e 23

supe r v i s i on o f a l i c ens ed v e t e r i na r i an ; i s t ha t s t i l l 24

co r r e c t ? 25

66


You men t i oned a t you r depos i t i on t ha t " Mos t o f 2 Q .

t he que s t i ons r ega r d i ng t he p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y 3

med i c i ne don ' t come f r om c i t i z ens , t he y come f r om , you 4

know , o t he r v e t e r i na r i ans . " I s t ha t s t i l l co r r e c t ? 5

Th a t ' s c o r r e c t . 6 A .

And j us t t o be c l e a r , t ha t ' s cu r r en t l y l i c ens ed 7 Q .

v e t e r i na r i ans a s k i ng t he Boa r d t o c l a r i f y wha t wou l d be 8

cons i de r ed t he unau t ho r i z ed p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y 9

med i c i ne ; co r r e c t ? 10

Th a t o r j u s t g e n e r a l qu e s t i on s r e g a r d i ng 11 A .

p r a c t i c e a c t i ng r u l e s . 12

A r e anonymous comp l a i n t s a l l owed a t t he Boa r d? 13 Q .

No , t he y a r e no t . 14 A .

To whom a r e t he name s o f t he comp l a i nan t s made 15 Q .

known? 16

Fo r comp l a i n t s? 17 A .

Ye s . I f a comp l a i n t i s f i l ed w i t h t he 18 Q .

Ve t e r i na r y Med i c a l Boa r d , you s a i d anonymous comp l a i n t s 19

a r e no t pe r m i t t ed , so who ge t s t o know who f i l ed t h i s 20

comp l a i n t ? 21

I f t h e c omp l a i n t i s f i l e d a g a i n s t a 22 A .

v e t e r i n a r i a n , t h e y a r e p r o v i d e d w i t h a c op y o f t h e 23

c omp l a i n t . So t h e y wou l d k now who f i l e d t h e c omp l a i n t 24

a g a i n s t t h em . 25

67

Bu t a non - v e t e r i na r i an wou l d no t r e c e i v e 1 Q .

s i m i l a r no t i c e? 2

Th e y r e c e i v e - - t h e y wou l d no t r e c e i v e a , a n 3 A .

a c k now l e dgme n t l e t t e r , no . 4

And i sn ' t i t co r r e c t t ha t v e t e r i na r i ans ge t an 5 Q .

oppo r t un i t y t o r e spond t o comp l a i n t s f i l ed aga i ns t 6

t hem? 7

Ye s , t h e y do . 8 A .

A r e t he y i n f o r med a t t he t i me t ha t t he y r e c e i v e 9 Q .

t he comp l a i n t t ha t t he y ha v e t ha t op t i on? 10

Ve t e r i n a r i a n s , t h e y a r e s e n t a l e t t e r , a nd t h e y 11 A .

h a v e s o ma n y d a y s t o r e s pond t o t h a t c omp l a i n t . 12

Bu t aga i n , t h i s i s no t an oppo r t un i t y 13 Q .

au t oma t i c a l l y g r an t ed t o a non - v e t e r i na r i an who ' s 14

r e c e i v ed a comp l a i n t ? 15

Th e y do no t g e t t h e s ame t y p e o f p a c k e t o r 16 A .

i n f o r ma t i on t h a t v e t e r i n a r i a n s do , no . 17

I ' d l i k e t o r e - v i s i t a hypo t he t i c a l t ha t we 18 Q .

d i s cus s ed a t t he depos i t i on . Hypo t he t i c a l l y , and s a y 19

t he r e ' s a c i t i z en named F a r me r B r own who owns a hand f u l 20

o f ho r s e s . And he c a l l s up t he Boa r d t o a s k how t he 21

l aw app l i e s t o h i m . I f he s a i d t ha t he wan t ed t o f l oa t 22

h i s own ho r s e s ' t e e t h , how wou l d you r e spond? I s t ha t 23

l ega l o r i s t ha t no t l ega l ? 24

An y on e c a n do a n y t h i ng t o t h e i r own a n i ma l s . 25 A .

68

Ok a y . And i s doe sn ' t ma t t e r whe t he r he ha s 1 Q .

t r a i n i ng? 2

I t ' s h i s a n i ma l s , s o h e c a n do wh a t e v e r h e 3 A .

wa n t s w i t h t h em . 4

Ok a y . To t he be s t o f you r unde r s t and i ng , doe s 5 Q .

Chap t e r 340 a l l ow F a r me r B r own t o ha v e a f u l l - t i me 6

emp l oy e e f l oa t h i s ho r s e s ' t e e t h? 7

I don ' t b e l i e v e i t do e s . 8 A .

To t he be s t o f you r unde r s t and i ng wou l d Chap t e r 9 Q .

340 pe r m i t F a r me r B r own t o ha v e h i s ne i ghbo r come ov e r 10

and f l oa t h i s ho r s e s ' t e e t h? 11

I don ' t b e l i e v e t h a t i t wou l d a l l ow t h a t , bu t I 12 A .

wou l d no t b e a b l e t o i n t e r p r e t t h e P r a c t i c e Ac t . 13

So you c anno t spe a k f o r t he Boa r d , 14 Q .

unde r s t andab l y , bu t you r unde r s t and i ng o f t h i s l aw i s 15

t ha t t ha t wou l d no t be pe r m i t t ed? 16

I n my po s i t i on I c a n ' t g i v e p e r s on a l op i n i on s . 17 A .

So aga i n , t he on l y wa y t ha t F a r me r B r own wou l d 18 Q .

know i f i t ' s ok a y t o ha v e a ne i ghbo r come ov e r t o he l p 19

ou t w i t h h i s ho r s e s i s t o a s k t he Boa r d and wa i t f o r 20

t hem t o answe r ? 21


And t o t he be s t o f you r unde r s t and i ng , wou l d 23 Q .

Chap t e r 340 pe r m i t F a r me r B r own t o ha v e a t r us t ed , 24

t r a i ned , y e t non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r come ov e r t o h i s 25

69

hous e and p r ov i de f l oa t i ng s e r v i c e s f o r no 1

compens a t i on? 2

Th a t wou l d h a v e t o b e up t o t h e Bo a r d , bu t I 3 A .

don ' t b e l i e v e - - i n my r o l e I wou l dn ' t b e a b l e t o 4

i n t e r p r e t t h e s t a t u t e . 5

So t he Boa r d ha sn ' t made a de t e r m i n a t i on on 6 Q .

t h i s que s t i on? 7

I c ou l d no t t e l l y ou t h a t . I f i t wa s a 8 A .

qu e s t i on , t h e n i t wou l d h a v e t o b e a ma j o r i t y v o t e o f 9

t he Boa r d . 10

Can you r e c a l l any spe c i f i c p r oc edu r e t ha t had 11 Q .

be en b r ough t be f o r e t he Boa r d whe r e t he Boa r d s a i d t h i s 12

i s no t t he p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne? 13

I do no t r e c a l l . 14 A .

So t o t he be s t o f you r know l edge , e v e r y t i me 15 Q .

t he y ' v e be en p r e s en t ed w i t h a que s t i on t he y ' v e r e so l v ed 16

i t s a y i ng , t h i s i s t he p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne? 17

Th a t wou l d b e up t o t h em . I don ' t r e c a l l i f 18 A .

t h e y don ' t - - wh a t y ou a s k e d me . 19

So wha t you a r e s a y i ng t o me i s t ha t i t cou l d 20 Q .

be a v i o l a t i on o f t h i s l aw t o c a s t r a t e an i ma l s? 21

I f t h a t i s wh a t t h e Bo a r d d e t e r m i n e s . 22 A .

Bu t i t cou l d be? 23 Q .

I f t h a t ' s wh a t t h e Bo a r d d e t e r m i n e s . 24 A .

And i t cou l d be i l l ega l t o ha v e someone he l p 25 Q .

70

you b r and you r an i ma l s ; co r r e c t ? 1

I f t h a t i s wh a t t h e Bo a r d wou l d d e t e r m i n e a nd 2 A .

v o t e . 3

And i t cou l d be i l l ega l t o t r i m an an i ma l ' s 4 Q .

hoov e s ; co r r e c t ? 5

I f t h a t i s wh a t t h e Bo a r d v o t e d a nd d e t e r m i n e d , 6 A .

t hen y e s . 7

And t he s ame t h i ng cou l d be s a i d f o r ho r s e 8 Q .

shoe i ng? 9

I f t h a t i s wh a t t h e Bo a r d wou l d d e t e r m i n e . 10 A .

And t he s ame t h i ng cou l d be s a i d f o r t r i mm i ng 11 Q .

an an i ma l ' s na i l s? 12

I f t h e Bo a r d d e t e r m i n e d a nd v o t e d t h a t . 13 A .

And t he s ame t h i ng cou l d be s a i d f o r cu t t i ng an 14 Q .

an i ma l ' s ha i r o r f u r ? 15

I f t h a t i s how t h e Bo a r d v o t e d . 16 A .

So e s s en t i a l l y you ' r e s a y i ng t ha t t he l aw me ans 17 Q .

wha t e v e r t he Boa r d s a y s i t me ans? 18

I c anno t i n t e r p r e t t he l aw ; t h a t ha s t o be up 19 A .

t o t h e Bo a r d t o ma k e t ho s e t y p e s o f d e c i s i on s . 20

MR . ROLAND : I t h i nk t ha t ' s a l l t he que s t i ons I 21

ha v e o f t h i s w i t ne s s . 22

THE COURT : M r . F r own f e l t e r . 23

24

25

71

RED I RECT EXAM I NAT I ON1

BY MR . FROWNFELTER :2

Ms . F ennewa l d , when t he Boa r d i s sue s a c e a s e 3 Q .

and de s i s t l e t t e r - - s t r i k e t ha t . 4

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ha v e no que s t i ons . 5

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t , t hank you , you ma y s t ep 6

down . We ' l l r e c e s s f o r abou t t en m i nu t e s .7

( B r i e f Re c e s s f r om 10 : 40 t o 10 : 52 a . m . )8

THE COURT : M r . F r own f e l t e r , you ma y p r oc e ed .9

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ' d l i k e t o c a l l Doc t o r Da v i d 10

Le i gh r . 11

THE COURT : P l e a s e s t ep f o r wa r d , r a i s e you r r i gh t 12

and be swo r n .13

14

DAV I D LE I GHR , du l y swo r n by THE Depu t y C i r cu i t 15

C l e r k .16

THE W I TNESS : Ye s .17

18



Doc t o r Le i gh r , wou l d you s t a t e and spe l l you r 21 Q .

name f o r t he r e co r d , p l e a s e . 22

Da v i d L e i gh r , L - e - i - g - h - r . 23 A .

And wha t i s you r bus i ne s s add r e s s? 24 Q .

19615 H i ghwa y 92 , Ke a r n e y , M i s s ou r i , 64060 .25 A .

72

And wha t i s you r oc cupa t i on? 1 Q .

Ve t e r i n a r i a n . 2 A .

And a r e you a l i c ens ed v e t e r i na r i an i n t he 3 Q .

S t a t e o f M i s sou r i ? 4

Ye s .5 A .

Wha t i s t he na t u r e o f you r p r a c t i c e? 6 Q .

M i x e d a n i ma l . 7 A .

Doe s t ha t i nc l ude equ i ne p r a c t i c e? 8 Q .

Ye s . 9 A .

Can you e s t i ma t e a t a l l wha t pe r c en t age o f you r 10 Q .

p r a c t i c e i s equ i ne? 11

Abou t 40 p e r c e n t . 12 A .

A r e you f am i l i a r a t a l l w i t h B r ook e G r a y and 13 Q .

t he wo r k t ha t she doe s? 14

Ye s .15 A .

When d i d you f i r s t be come awa r e o f Ms . G r a y ' s 16 Q .

p r e s enc e? 17

2004 . 18 A .

And how d i d he r name come t o you r a t t en t i on? 19 Q .

I wa s g i v i ng a s em i n a r a t a f e e d s t o r e , 20 A .

e du c a t i on s em i n a r f o r c l i e n t s t h a t t h e y a s k e d me t o 21

g i v e on t e e t h , a nd a t t h e e nd o f t h e s em i n a r B r oo k e 22

G r a y wa s i n t r odu c e d t o t h e g r oup a nd d i s t r i bu t e d 23

bu s i n e s s c a r d s t o t h e pub l i c . I t h i n k a t t h e t i me h e r 24

n ame wa s Ne ub a u e r o r s ome t h i ng d i f f e r e n t . A t l e a s t 25

73

t h a t wa s wh a t wa s on t h e c a r d . 1

I wou l d l i k e t o show you wha t we ha v e ma r k ed a s 2 Q .

Pe t i t i one r ' s Exh i b i t No . 9 . Do you r e cogn i z e t ha t 3

documen t ? 4

Ye s . 5 A .


Th a t i s a bu s i n e s s c a r d t h a t wa s d i s t r i bu t e d . 7 A .

Th a t on e ma y h a v e c ome f r om t h e f e e d s t o r e o r i t c ou l d 8

h a v e c ome f r om on e o f t h e b a r n s i n t h e a r e a .9

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , I ' m go i ng t o l odge an 10

ob j e c t i on a s t o que s t i ons abou t t h i s e v en t a s f a r a s 11

r e l e v anc e i s conc e r ned , be c aus e I be l i e v e 2004 wou l d be 12

we l l ou t s i de any s t a t u t e o f l i m i t a t i ons t ha t ' s 13

app l i c ab l e . 14

MR . FROWNFELTER : You r Hono r , t he a l l ega t i on i s 15

t ha t Ms . G r a y - - t he r e ' s no t a s t a t u t e o f l i m i t a t i ons 16

t ha t app l i e s t o t he a r t o f ho r s e p r a c t i c e . We ' v e go t a 17

cou r s e o f p r a c t i c e con t i nu i ng up t o t he p r e s en t da y . 18

And t he que s t i on i s whe t he r , wha t i n f o r ma t i on t he 19

w i t ne s s ha s r ega r d i ng t he pe r f o r manc e o f equ i ne den t a l 20

s e r v i c e s by t he de f endan t , and t h i s i s how he be c ame 21

awa r e , and t h i s c a r d r ep r e s en t s some t h i ng t ha t he 22

ob t a i ned r ega r d i ng pe r f o r manc e o f t hos e s e r v i c e s . 23

THE COURT : Wha t s t a t u t e o f l i m i t a t i ons a r e you 24

r e f e r r i ng t o? 25

74

MR . ROLAND : Hone s t l y , You r Hono r , my memo r y i s a 1

l i t t l e r us t y . My unde r s t and i ng i s t ha t M i s sou r i ha s a 2

gene r a l c a t ch - a l l s t a t u t e o f l i m i t a t i ons wh i ch I 3

be l i e v e i s t wo y e a r s , a l t hough , hone s t l y , i t ' s be en 4

v e r y l ong s i nc e I ' v e l ook ed a t t ha t .5

MR . FROWNFELTER : App l i ed t o wha t ? 6

THE COURT : A r e you t a l k i ng abou t f o r c i v i l c aus e s 7

o f a c t i on? 8

MR . ROLAND : Fo r c i v i l c aus e s o f a c t i on . 9

THE COURT : F i v e , gene r a l l y . Two on some t h i ngs . 10

The r e a r e c e r t a i n - - 11

MR . ROLAND : I t ' s ou t s i de t he s t a t u t e - - ou t s i de 12

t he f i v e y e a r s i s wha t . . . 13

THE COURT : I ' l l ov e r r u l e t he ob j e c t i on .14

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ok a y . 15

THE COURT : P l a i n t i f f ' s 9 w i l l be adm i t t ed .16

( P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 9 wa s adm i t t ed i n t o 17

e v i denc e . ) 18

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) A l l r i gh t , ha v e you e v e r 19 Q .

spok en t o B r ook e G r a y? 20

Ye s . 21 A .

Can you t e l l me t he c i r cums t anc e s unde r wh i ch 22 Q .

t ha t a r os e? 23

I n 2007 t h e r e wa s a me s s a g e f o r me t o c a l l h e r , 24 A .

no t r e a l l y a n y t h i ng s p e c i f i c a bou t wh a t t h e phon e c a l l 25

75

wa s r e g a r d i ng , a nd I phon e d h e r , a nd s h e i n f o r me d me 1

t h a t s h e wa s go i ng t o s u e me f o r s l a nd e r . 2

Wha t had you s a i d o r done t ha t she made t ha t 3 Q .

s t a t emen t i n r e f e r enc e t o? 4

I n 2004 I h a d a pp r o a c h e d t h e Ve t e r i n a r y Me d i c a l 5 A .

Bo a r d a bou t , a bou t a c omp l a i n t t h a t on e o f my c l i e n t s 6

h a d a g a i n s t B r oo k e a nd s ome o f t h e wo r k t h a t s h e h a d 7

don e , s o I , wh e n I c a l l e d t h em , t h e y s a i d t h a t t h e y 8

don ' t g e n e r a l l y d e a l w i t h c omp l a i n t s a g a i n s t - -9

Le t ' s no t add r e s s t he 2004 a c t i ons .10 Q .

Ok a y . 11 A .

Spe c i f i c a l l y , had you be en ma k i ng - - 12 Q .

Ok a y . We l l b e t we e n , b e t we e n 2004 a nd 2007 , i t 13 A .

wa s t h e d i r e c t i on o f t h e AAEP a nd t h e MVMA t o e du c a t e 14

my c l i e n t s t h a t wh a t s h e wa s do i ng wa s i l l e g a l . 15

AAEP i s wha t ? 16 Q .

Ame r i c a n As s o c i a t i on o f Equ i n e P r a c t i t i on e r s 17 A .

a nd t h e M i s s ou r i Ve t e r i n a r y Me d i c a l As s o c i a t i on . 18

Thank you . 19 Q .

THE COURT REPORTER : And t he M i s sou r i wha t ? 20

THE W I TNESS : Ve t e r i na r y Med i c a l As soc i a t i on . 21

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER) And d i d you t e l l you r 22 Q .

c l i en t s any t h i ng abou t Ms . G r a y ' s s e r v i c e s? 23

I j u s t - - i f i t wa s b r ough t t o my a t t e n t i on 24 A .

t h a t t h e y we r e u s i ng a l a y d e n t i s t , a nd t h e y d i dn ' t 25

76

h a v e t o b e s p e c i f i c , t h e n I wa s t o e du c a t e t h em a bou t 1

t h e i l l e g a l i t i e s o f t h e wo r k i n t h e S t a t e o f M i s s ou r i 2

a s we l l a s s ome o f t h e r e a s on s y ou s hou l d u s e y ou r 3

v e t e r i n a r i a n . 4

Ok a y . So you had a conv e r s a t i on . A r e we s t i l l 5 Q .

t a l k i ng abou t a t e l ephone conv e r s a t i on? 6

Ye s . 7 A .

And you c a l l ed , you c a l l ed a numbe r ba s ed on a 8 Q .

me s s age you r e c e i v ed? 9

Ye s . 10 A .

And t h i s pe r son you spok e t o , d i d she i den t i f y 11 Q .

he r s e l f ? 12

Ye s .13 A .

And how d i d she i den t i f y he r s e l f ? 14 Q .

As B r oo k e G r a y . 15 A .

A f t e r t he d i s cus s i on o f t he pos s i b i l i t y o f he r 16 Q .

b r i ng i ng l i t i ga t i on aga i ns t you , wa s t he r e any 17

d i s cus s i on o f t he s e r v i c e s t ha t she p r ov i ded? 18

I h a d a t t h a t po i n t s t a r t e d t o e du c a t e h e r 19 A .

a bou t t h e P r a c t i c e Ac t , a nd I h a d t h e P r a c t i c e Ac t 20

t h e r e a nd t o l d h e r t h a t wh a t s h e wa s do i ng wa s i nd e e d 21

i l l e g a l ; t h a t I c ou l dn ' t t h i n k o f a n y c i r c ums t a n c e s 22

wh e r e i t wa s l e g a l un l e s s s h e wo r k e d w i t h t h e 23

v e t e r i n a r i a n , und e r t h e d i r e c t s up e r v i s i on o f a 24

v e t e r i n a r i a n . And I e du c a t e d h e r a bou t t h e d i f f e r e n t 25

77

wa y s t h a t s h e c ou l d do t h a t , a t t e nd v e t s c hoo l a nd 1

b e c ome a v e t e r i n a r i a n ; s h e c ou l d go t o t e c hn i c a l s c hoo l 2

a nd t h e n b e c ome a r e g i s t e r e d r e gu l a r t e c hn i c i a n a nd 3

wo r k w i t h a v e t e r i n a r i a n , o r s h e c ou l d f i nd on e o f 4

t h e s e r e t i r e d v e t e r i n a r i a n s a nd h a v e t h em r i d e a r ound 5

w i t h h e r a nd s e d a t e t h e a n i ma l s a nd ob s e r v e h e r , a nd 6

s h e s e eme d v e r y r e s i s t a n t t o h a v i ng a v e t e r i n a r i a n 7

s up e r v i s e h e r a c t i v i t i e s . 8

D i d she ma k e any s t a t emen t s abou t wha t s e r v i c e s 9 Q .

she doe s? 10

Sh e s a y s t h a t s h e - - a t on e po i n t s h e s a i d t h a t 11 A .

s h e wa n t e d t o b r i ng a ho r s e t o me s o t h a t s h e c ou l d 12

d emon s t r a t e f l o a t i ng , a nd t h e n t h a t wa y I c ou l d , y ou 13

k now , t e l l my c l i e n t s t h a t wh a t s h e ' s do i ng i s a n 14

a c c e p t a b l e j ob . And I t o l d h e r t h a t I d i dn ' t wa n t t o 15

s e e h e r f l o a t a ho r s e , t h a t h a d no b e a r i ng on t h e f a c t 16

t h a t wh a t s h e ' s do i ng w i t hou t s up e r v i s i on i s i l l e g a l . 17

D i d you e v e r obs e r v e he r wo r k i ng on a ho r s e? 18 Q .

No . 19 A .

A f t e r you r conv e r s a t i on i n - - aga i n , when d i d 20 Q .

you s a y t ha t t h i s conv e r s a t i on t ook p l a c e?21

2007 . 22 A .

And a f t e r you r conv e r s a t i on w i t h Ms . G r a y , wha t 23 Q .

a c t i on d i d you t a k e r ega r d i ng t ha t conv e r s a t i on? 24

I c a l l e d my a t t o r n e y , a nd h e t oo k t h e c a s e 25 A .

78

f a i r l y s e r i ou s l y , s o h e s e n t h e r a l e t t e r , y ou k now , 1

a nd e x p l a i n e d t o h e r t h a t i t i s i l l e g a l t o p r a c t i c e - - 2

MR . ROLAND : Ob j e c t i on , You r Hono r , t h i s i s 3

he a r s a y . 4

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER) Wha t a c t i on d i d you t a k e 5 Q .

w i t h r ega r d t o - - 6

THE COURT : Sus t a i ned . 7

MR . FROWNFELTER : So r r y . 8

I c a l l e d my a t t o r n e y . 9 A .

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) We l l a f t e r - - o t he r t han 10 Q .

wha t you r a t t o r ne y s a i d , d i d you t a k e any a c t i on 11

r ega r d i ng o f f i c i a l a c t i on aga i ns t M r . G r a y? 12

I f i l e d a c omp l a i n t . 13 A .

And I ' d l i k e t o - - i s t ha t t he documen t t ha t 14 Q .

ha s be en ma r k ed a s P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 2 i n t h i s 15

c a s e? 16

Ye s . 17 A .

A f t e r t he Boa r d a c t ed on t he c a s e , when d i d you 18 Q .

ne x t he a r any t h i ng r ega r d i ng - - o r when d i d you ne x t 19

l e a r n t ha t , any t h i ng r ega r d i ng Ms . G r a y ' s pos s i b l e 20

i nvo l v emen t i n v e t e r i na r y den t i s t r y? 21

You me a n , I h e a r t h i ng s f r om c l i e n t s 22 A .

f r e qu e n t l y , a nd I me a n , i t c on t i nu e d a f t e r t h e c e a s e 23

a nd d e s i s t . I gu e s s I ' m c on f u s e d a bou t wh a t t i me f r ame 24

y ou ' r e l oo k i ng a t ; i mme d i a t e l y a f t e r wa r d s o r u l t i ma t e l y 25

79

up t o t h e p r e s e n t t i me ? 1

The c e a s e and de s i s t l e t t e r wa s i s sued i n 2007 , 2 Q .

i t wa s Oc t obe r 2007 ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 3

Ye s . 4 A .

A f t e r t he c e a s e - - and you we r e no t i f i ed t ha t 5 Q .

t he c e a s e and de s i s t l e t t e r wa s i s sued? 6

Ye s . 7 A .

A f t e r you we r e no t i f i ed o f t he c e a s e and de s i s t 8 Q .

l e t t e r , d i d you t a k e any f u r t he r a c t i on r ega r d i ng 9

pos s i b l e unau t ho r i z ed p r a c t i c e by Ms . G r a y? 10

I c o l l e c t e d a c c oun t s f r om s e v e r a l c l i e n t s a f t e r 11 A .

t h e c e a s e a nd d e s i s t , a nd I s ubm i t t e d a s e c ond 12

c omp l a i n t . 13

And I ' d l i k e t o show you - - 14 Q .

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ma y I , You r Hono r ? 15

THE COURT : Ye s .16


ha s be en ma r k ed a s P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 8 . Do you 18


Ye s . 20 A .

And wha t i s t ha t documen t , p l e a s e? 21 Q .

Th a t i s a n o f f i c i a l c omp l a i n t f o r m . 22 A .

And d i d you subm i t t ha t comp l a i n t t o t he Boa r d? 23 Q .

Ye s . 24 A .

D i d you ha v e any i nvo l v emen t - - d i d you ha v e 25 Q .

80

any con t a c t s w i t h t he Boa r d o r any r ep r e s en t a t i v e o f 1

t he Boa r d a f t e r subm i t t i ng you r s e cond comp l a i n t ? 2

I b e l i e v e t h e y s e n t me a no t h e r c on f i r ma t i on , 3 A .

a nd a no t h e r c e a s e a nd d e s i s t l e t t e r wa s s e n t t o h e r , 4

a nd t h e y s e n t me a c on f i r ma t i on t h a t wa s s e n t . And 5

t h e n a s t a t e i n v e s t i g a t o r h a d c ome ou t a nd t a l k e d t o me 6

b r i e f l y , I t h i n k , on a c oup l e o c c a s i on s . 7

And d i d you p r ov i de t ha t i nv e s t i ga t o r w i t h t he 8 Q .

i n f o r ma t i on i n you r pos s e s s i on? 9

E v e r y t h i ng t h a t I h a d I g a v e t o h i m . 10 A .

D i d you ha v e any o t he r i nvo l v emen t be f o r e be i ng 11 Q .

s e r v ed w i t h a subpoena f o r t h i s he a r i ng? The Boa r d ' s 12

i nv e s t i ga t i on . 13

No .14 A .

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ha v e no f u r t he r que s t i ons . 15

THE COURT : M r . Ro l and . 16

17


BY MR . ROLAND :19

Doc t o r Le i gh r , doe s t he name M i che l l e Wy co f f 20 Q .

r i ng a be l l ? 21

Ye s . 22 A .

A r e you awa r e t ha t she i s a w i t ne s s i n t h i s 23 Q .

c a s e? 24

Ye s . 25 A .

81

And ha v e you spok en t o he r ? 1 Q .

I s po k e w i t h h e r b a c k i n , I don ' t k now , 2010 , I 2 A .

t h i n k , a t a f un e r a l o f on e o f my f r i e nd s who p a s s e d 3

awa y . 4

And d i d you spe a k w i t h he r abou t t h i s c a s e? 5 Q .

Sh e i n t r odu c e d h e r s e l f a s M i c h e l l e Wy c o f f . 6 A .

And d i d t ha t name r i ng a be l l ? 7 Q .

Ye s . 8 A .

Be c aus e you had had a p r e v i ous conv e r s a t i on 9 Q .

w i t h he r a s we l l , hadn ' t you? 10

Ye s . 11 A .

A l l r i gh t . And cou l d you sha r e wha t t he , wha t 12 Q .

t he e a r l i e r conv e r s a t i on wa s abou t ? 13

I don ' t und e r s t a nd wh a t y ou ' r e a s k i ng me . 14 A .

We l l , you had spok en w i t h M i che l l e Wy co f f p r i o r 15 Q .

t o t he f une r a l you j us t men t i oned ; I ' m a s k i ng wha t wa s 16

t he e a r l i e r conv e r s a t i on abou t ? 17

I t h i n k , p r i o r t o t h a t I t h i n k J a c k s on An i ma l 18 A .

C l i n i c i n P l a t t e C i t y , s h e i s a c l i e n t o f t h e i r s , a nd 19

Ke n t J a c k s on r e f e r r e d h e r t o me b e c a u s e s h e h a d 20

k now l e dg e o f B r oo k e G r a y , a nd h e d i dn ' t wa n t t o g e t 21

i n v o l v e d i n t h e c a s e , a nd wa n t e d me t o t a l k t o h e r 22

a bou t wh a t s h e n e e d s t o do i n o r d e r t o f i l e a c omp l a i n t 23

a g a i n s t h e r . And s i n c e I ' m t h e on e who ' s don e i t i n 24

t h e p a s t , J a c k s on d i dn ' t wa n t t o g e t i n v o l v e d a nd , I 25

82

gu e s s , r e f e r r e d h e r t o me . And t h a t ' s t h e g i s t o f wh a t 1

I und e r s t a nd wh y s h e c ame t o me . 2

So wha t made you de c i de t ha t you wan t ed t o t a k e 3 Q .

a c t i on aga i ns t ho r s e t e e t h f l oa t e r s? 4

We l l , a r e we a l l owe d t o go b a c k t o 2004? 5 A .

Su r e . 6 Q .

Ok a y . On e o f my c l i e n t s , Donn a F r y , i n Ho l t , 7 A .

s h e wa s , on e o f h e r k i d s wa s i n a t h e r a p e u t i c r i d i ng 8

p r og r am t h a t I wa s on t h e bo a r d o f d i r e c t o r s o f , a nd 9

s h e h a d a c oup l e o f ho r s e s t h e r e . Sh e we n t ou t - - a nd 10

I ' d wo r k e d on h e r ho r s e s f o r s e v e r a l y e a r s , a nd I we n t 11

ou t i n 2004 , a nd s ho r t l y a f t e r t h a t me e t i ng a t t h e f e e d 12

s t o r e , a nd Donn a F r y s a i d t h a t s h e h a d B r oo k e ou t t o do 13

s ome wo r k on h e r ho r s e s ' t e e t h a nd t h a t s h e wa s up s e t 14

a bou t t h e wa y s h e s e d a t e d t h e ho r s e a nd wa s , y ou k now , 15

d i dn ' t s e em l i k e s h e wa s c om f o r t a b l e w i t h t h e s e d a t i on , 16

a nd s a i d t h a t s h e h a d t o f i l l ou t a p i e c e o f p a p e r , y ou 17

k now , a c k now l e dg i ng t h a t B r oo k e wa s no t a v e t e r i n a r i a n . 18

And s o I t o l d h e r I wou l d ma k e s ome phon e c a l l s a nd 19

f i nd ou t who s h e n e e d e d t o f i l e a c omp l a i n t a g a i n s t , 20

a nd t h a t ' s k i nd o f how t h e who l e t h i ng go t s t a r t e d , 21

r e a l l y . 22

Had you be en awa r e t ha t t he r e we r e 23 Q .

non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r s a r ound p r i o r t o 2004? 24

No . 25 A .

83

We r e you awa r e t ha t f a r r i e r s wo r k ed on ho r s e s? 1 Q .

I wa s no t awa r e b e f o r e 2004 o f a n y o f t h e s e 2 A .

i s s u e s wh a t s o e v e r . I f i gu r e d i f s ome on e wa s wo r k i ng 3

own a n a n i ma l t h a t t h e y we r e qu a l i f i e d a nd l i c e n s e d t o 4

wo r k on t h e a n i ma l . I h a d no i d e a t h a t t h e r e we r e 5

p e op l e ou t t h e r e do i ng t h i s s t u f f . 6

Doe s t ha t go f o r f a r r i e r s a s we l l ? 7 Q .

F a r r i e r s , I h a d no i d e a t h a t wh a t t h e y do i s 8 A .

i l l e g a l . I h a d no - - a s f a r a s b e f o r e t h i s i n c i d e n t 9

w i t h Donn a F r y , I h a d no i d e a t h a t t h e r e wa s a n y t h i ng 10

i n t h e S t a t e o f M i s s ou r i t h a t wa s b e i ng don e i l l e g a l l y 11

t o t h e a n i ma l s . 12

And t ha t goe s f o r f a r r i e r s a s we l l , doe sn ' t i t ? 13 Q .

Ne v e r c r o s s e d my m i nd . 14 A .

R i gh t . And so i t ne v e r e v en c r os s ed you r m i nd 15 Q .

t ha t i t m i gh t be i l l ega l f o r f a r r i e r s t o do wha t t he y 16

do ; r i gh t ? 17

I t n e v e r c r o s s e d my m i nd . 18 A .

Ok a y . Now , when d i d you de c i de t ha t t he l aw 19 Q .

f o r bade f l oa t e r s f r om wo r k i ng? 20

A f t e r I c on t a c t e d t h e Ve t e r i n a r y Me d i c a l Bo a r d . 21 A .

Ok a y . And you a s k ed f o r an op i n i on on t ha t ? 22 Q .

I t a l k e d t o t h e s t a f f , I b e l i e v e , a t t h e 23 A .

Ve t e r i n a r y Me d i c a l Bo a r d , a nd t h e y s a i d t h a t I c ou l d 24

no t f i l e a c omp l a i n t a g a i n s t a p e r s on who i s no t a 25

84

v e t e r i n a r i a n , s o t h e y r e f e r r e d me t o t h e M i s s ou r i 1

Ve t e r i n a r y Me d i c a l As s o c i a t i on , a nd I s po k e w i t h t h e 2

l e g a l c oun s e l f o r t h e M i s s ou r i Ve t e r i n a r y Me d i c a l 3

As s o c i a t i on who i n t e r p r e t e d o r g a v e me a c c e s s t o t h e 4

P r a c t i c e Ac t , a nd I l e a r n e d a t t h a t po i n t a bou t i t . 5

When you s a y you l e a r ned , how d i d you l e a r n? 6 Q .

I r e a d t h e P r a c t i c e Ac t a nd s aw d e n t i s t r y wa s 7 A .

i n t he r e . 8

You ' r e no t an a t t o r ne y , a r e you? 9 Q .

No . 10 A .

Ok a y . I wou l d l i k e t o a s k a l i t t l e b i t abou t 11 Q .

you r educ a t i on . Whe r e d i d you s t udy? 12

Un i v e r s i t y o f M i s s ou r i . 13 A .

And when d i d you g r adua t e? 14 Q .

I go t my b a c h e l o r s i n b i o c h em i s t r y i n 1996 a nd 15 A .

my v e t e r i n a r y me d i c a l d e g r e e i n 2000 , bo t h f r om 16

M i s sou r i . 17

Ok a y . So you ' v e be en p r a c t i c i ng f o r r ough l y 18 Q .

11 y e a r s? 19

Ye s . 20 A .

A r e you l i c ens ed i n t he S t a t e o f M i s sou r i ? 21 Q .

Ye s . 22 A .

A r e you l i c ens ed i n any o t he r s t a t e? 23 Q .

No . 24 A .

F l oa t i ng t e e t h i s pa r t o f you r p r a c t i c e , i sn ' t 25 Q .

85

i t ? 1

Ye s .2 A .

How much do you cha r ge t o f l oa t a ho r s e ' s 3 Q .

t e e t h? 4

A hund r e d do l l a r s . 5 A .

Hund r ed do l l a r s . Whe r e d i d you l e a r n t o f l oa t 6 Q .

t e e t h? 7

Ve t e r i n a r y s c hoo l . 8 A .

Who t augh t you? 9 Q .

I t h i n k Do c t o r J ohn s on wa s on a s we l l a s Do c t o r 10 A .

Ke e g a n a nd Do c t o r K r ame r . And M r . Me t z g a r ( phon e t i c ) , 11

I t h i n k , ma y h a v e b e e n on a f ew we e k s du r i ng t h a t t i me 12

p e r i od . Th e r e wa s s e v e r a l r e s i d e n t s t h a t I c a n ' t 13

r ememb e r now a nd t h e r e ' s a f ew i n t e r n s . 14

A l l t he s e d i f f e r en t peop l e t augh t you how t o 15 Q .

f l oa t t e e t h? 16

A l l o f t h em a r e i n v o l v e d i n t h e c l i n i c s a nd 17 A .

t h e y k i nd o f , e a c h on e o f t ho s e p e op l e a r e k i nd o f 18

r e s pon s i b l e f o r t h e i r own c a s e s , a nd s ome c a s e s i n v o l v e 19

f l o a t i ng a nd s ome don ' t . 20

Wha t t e x t d i d you s t udy? 21 Q .

F o r ? 22 A .

To l e a r n how t o f l oa t t e e t h . 23 Q .

I h a d a ma n y t e x t s . I h a v e Hou r s ( phon e t i c ) 24 A .

Su r g e r y T e x t , I h a v e ma n y me d i c a l t e x t s . 25

86

And t he y spe c i f i c a l l y add r e s s f l oa t i ng t e e t h? 1 Q .

Ma n y t e x t s do . And I h a v e E a s l e y ' s a nd Tom 2 A .

A l l e n ' s t e x t s , y ou k now . A t my c l i n i c r i gh t now I 3

h a v e , I t h i n k i t ' s P i n s k y ' s ( phon e t i c ) t e x t r i gh t now . 4

Do you r emembe r wh i ch t e x t wa s us ed when you 5 Q .

we r e i n v e t e r i na r y s choo l ? 6

We h a d g e n e r a l t e x t boo k s t h a t c o v e r e d a w i d e 7 A .

r a ng e f r om t h i ng s f r om ph a r ma c e u t i c a l s t o s u r g e r y t o 8

me d i c i n e . 9

I ' m t a l k i ng abou t j us t f l oa t i ng . 10 Q .

We don ' t h a v e a t e x t f o r j u s t f l o a t i ng , bu t we 11 A .

h a v e t e x t s t h a t h a v e f l o a t i ng i n t h em . 12

Ok a y , I ' m a s k i ng you t o name a t e x t t ha t you 13 Q .

us ed i n v e t e r i na r y s choo l f o r f l oa t i ng . 14

MR . FROWNFELTER : A t t h i s po i n t I ' m go i ng t o 15

ob j e c t . Th i s que s t i on i ng i s be yond t he s cope o f t he 16

d i r e c t . 17

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , i n a c i v i l c a s e - - 18

MR . FROWNFELTER : Th i s i s no t an e xpe r t w i t ne s s . 19

MR . ROLAND : I n a c i v i l c a s e , t he c r os s - e x am i ne r i s 20

no t bound t o t he s co r e o f d i r e c t . 21

MR . FROWNFELTER : And t h i s i s no t an e xpe r t 22

w i t ne s s ; he ' s a f a c t w i t ne s s a s t o t he f a c t s and so 23

t h i s i s be yond - - 24

THE COURT : I don ' t know t ha t ' s ne c e s s a r i l y t he 25

87

c a s e , bu t I ' l l ov e r r u l e t he ob j e c t i on f o r now .1

( BY MR . ROLAND) So c an you name a t e x t t ha t 2 Q .

you us ed i n v e t s choo l t ha t spe c i f i c a l l y add r e s s ed 3

f l oa t i ng ho r s e s ' t e e t h? 4

Ma nu a l o f Equ i n e P r a c t i c e . Th e r e ' s on e . 5 A .

Rob i n s on , t h e r e ' s t wo . L e t ' s s e e , t h e r e ' s t h e - - I 6

c a n ' t r ememb e r t h e n ame o f i t . Th e r e ' s on e c a l l e d 7

Equ i n e Me d i c i n e , wh i c h i s a bou t a 2000 p a g e t e x t . I 8

h a v e t h a t on my s h e l f , I c a n ' t r ememb e r t h e a u t ho r . 9

Do you r e c a l l how many page s o f t hos e 2000 we r e 10 Q .

ded i c a t ed t o f l oa t i ng? 11

Ou t o f a l l t ho s e t e x t s I c ou l dn ' t , I c a n ' t 12 A .

r ememb e r . 13

Do you r e c a l l how many d i f f e r en t ho r s e s you ' v e 14 Q .

f l oa t ed wh i l e you we r e i n v e t s choo l ? 15

I t h i n k I a s s i s t e d a nd f l o a t e d p r ob a b l y h a l f a 16 A .

do z e n o r s o . 17

Ha l f a do z en . Do you f e e l l i k e a f t e r f l oa t i ng 18 Q .

t hos e ha l f a do z en ho r s e s t ha t you we r e p r o f i c i en t ? 19

No , bu t I we n t t o - - we ' r e r e qu i r e d t o do f ou r 20 A .

f r e e b l o c k s , s o I we n t t o a s t a nd a r d b r e d r a c i ng 21

p r a c t i c e up i n I l l i no i s , a nd I f l o a t e d t e e t h t h e r e 22

qu i t e a b i t . He h a d h i s own ho r s e s , a nd h e d i dn ' t f e e l 23

b a d a bou t l e t t i ng me f l o a t w i t h t h em . And h e t a ugh t me 24

qu i t e a b i t , a nd we s p e n t p r ob a b l y t wo o r t h r e e hou r s a 25

88

d a y up t h e r e f o r s i x we e k s . I f e l t p r e t t y good a f t e r 1

t h a t e x p e r i e n c e . 2

And t h i s wa s a f t e r v e t e r i na r y s choo l ? 3 Q .

No , du r i ng v e t s c hoo l . 4 A .

Ok a y . So - - 5 Q .

We ' r e r e qu i r e d t o do f ou r , s i x , e i gh t - we e k f r e e 6 A .

b l o c k s du r i ng v e t s c hoo l , wh e r e we g e t e x p e r i e n c e w i t h 7

d i f f e r e n t p r a c t i t i on e r s . 8

Ok a y . When you we r e up i n I l l i no i s , we r e you 9 Q .

f l oa t i ng unsupe r v i s ed , o r d i d you ha v e someone - - 10

Oh , no . Th e do c t o r wa s r i gh t t h e r e . I wa s a 11 A .

s t ud e n t , a nd I wa s d i r e c t l y s up e r v i s e d a nd h e wa s 12

h e l p i ng me , s how i ng me on h i s own ho r s e s . 13

Ok a y . You s a i d t ha t abou t 40 pe r c en t o f you r 14 Q .

p r a c t i c e i s equ i ne? 15

Ye s . 16 A .

Ok a y . Abou t how many o f - - o r abou t - - abou t 17 Q .

how many ho r s e s a we e k do you s e e f o r a den t a l i s sue? 18

I t d e p e nd s on t h e t i me o f y e a r , b e c a u s e e qu i n e 19 A .

p r a c t i c e i s f a i r l y s e a s on a l . Bu t I ' d s a y t h i s y e a r , 20

I ' v e l oo k e d i t up b e f o r e we c ame , a nd I ' v e don e a bou t 21

300 d e n t a l e x am i n a t i on s t h i s y e a r . 22

Ok a y . 300 e x am i n a t i ons i n t o t he mon t h o f 23 Q .

Sep t embe r ? 24

Ye a h , t h r ough p r e s e n t d a y . 25 A .

89

Ha v e you e v e r he a r d o f a - - o r r a t he r , do you 1 Q .

ha v e any d i r e c t know l edge o f a non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r 2

e v e r i n j u r i ng a ho r s e j us t w i t h f l oa t i ng? 3

I r e a l l y - - I me a n , I h a v e c l i e n t s t h a t h a v e 4 A .

ma d e s ome c omp l a i n t s , bu t I r e a l l y don ' t k now i f I ' m 5

go i ng t o d r a g t h em i n t o t h i s . 6

I ' m j us t a s k i ng , ha v e you pe r sona l l y s e en a 7 Q .

non - v e t i n j u r e an an i ma l - -8

I do no t - - 9 A .

- - j us t f l oa t i ng t e e t h? 10 Q .

I f I wa s s up e r v i s i ng t h e i r a c t i v i t i e s , we 11 A .

wou l dn ' t b e h e r e t od a y . 12

Ok a y . Tha t ' s you r unde r s t and i ng o f t he l aw? 13 Q .

Ye s . 14 A .

Ok a y . I ' d l i k e t o t a k e a l ook a t t he e xh i b i t 15 Q .

ma r k ed P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 9 , i f I cou l d . 16

You t e s t i f i ed t ha t you r e c e i v ed a copy o f t h i s 17

c a r d i n 2004 ; co r r e c t ? 18

I r e c e i v e d qu i t e a f ew o f t ho s e c a r d s f r om 19 A .

d i f f e r e n t c l i e n t s , a nd t h e n t h e y we r e a l s o d i s t r i bu t e d 20

a t t h e me e t i ng t h a t I g a v e a t a l k on d e n t i s t r y . 21

Do you s e e an add r e s s on t ha t c a r d? 22 Q .

No . 23 A .

Do you s e e a phone numbe r on t ha t c a r d? 24 Q .

No . Ye s . I n t h e bo t t om r i gh t - h a nd c o r n e r i s 25 A .

90

t h e phon e numb e r . 1

Wha t ' s t he a r e a code on t ha t phone numbe r ? 2 Q .

404 . 3 A .

A r e you f am i l i a r w i t h M i s sou r i a r e a code s? 4 Q .

I don ' t k now . I me a n , I ' m s u r e I ' m f am i l i a r 5 A .

w i t h 816 a nd 660 a nd 314 a nd t h a t ' s i t .6

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , I ' d l i k e t he Cou r t t o t a k e 7

j ud i c i a l no t i c e t ha t 404 i s no t a M i s sou r i a r e a code . 8

THE COURT : Any ob j e c t i on t o t ha t ? 9

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ob j e c t t o t ha t . M r . Ro l and 10

c an , wan t s t o p r ov i de p r oo f , f i n e , bu t I wou l d ob j e c t 11

t o j ud i c i a l no t i c e on t ha t . 12

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , i t ' s a f a c t t ha t ' s r e ad i l y 13

de t e r m i n ab l e , i t ' s c l e a r l y w i t h i n t he bounds o f - - 14

MR . FROWNFELTER : And mos t l y I ' m go i ng t o ob j e c t on 15

t he g r ounds o f r e l e v anc e be c aus e i t ' s we l l known now 16

t ha t peop l e c a r r y c e l l phone s , and a c e l l phone c an 17

ha v e any a r e a code and answe r i n an a r e a , so t he f a c t 18

t ha t a phone numbe r m i gh t ha v e a d i f f e r en t numbe r i s 19

i r r e l e v an t t o t he que s t i on o f why i t ' s be i ng handed ou t 20

t o peop l e on a bus i ne s s c a r d . 21

THE COURT : I ' l l ov e r r u l e t he ob j e c t i on , and I ' l l 22

no t e t ha t t ha t i s no t a M i s sou r i a r e a code . I be l i e v e 23

t ha t i s we l l known . 24

( BY MR . ROLAND) So i n f a c t , peop l e us i ng t h i s 25 Q .

91

c a r d m i gh t no t be r e c e i v i ng any s e r v i c e s w i t h i n t he 1

S t a t e o f M i s sou r i ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 2

I d i dn ' t s a y t h a t . 3 A .

We l l I ' m a s k i ng you? 4 Q .

I don ' t k now . 5 A .

Bu t i t ' s pos s i b l e t ha t t he y m i gh t no t be 6 Q .

r e c e i v i ng s e r v i c e s i n t he S t a t e o f M i s sou r i ? 7

I don ' t t h i n k s o . 8 A .

And why no t ? Why don ' t you t h i nk so? 9 Q .

Be c a u s e t ho s e c a r d s we r e d i s t r i bu t e d a t a 10 A .

me e t i ng i n Ke a r n e y , M i s s ou r i . And t h e y we r e h a ng i ng on 11

t h e wa l l o f b a r n s i n Ke a r n e y , L aws on , Ho l t . I me a n , i t 12

s e ems l og i c a l t h a t t h e ho r s e s t h a t a r e a t t ho s e b a r n s 13

a r e no t b e i ng t r a n s po r t e d ou t o f s t a t e f o r t h e s e r v i c e s 14

t o b e p e r f o r me d .15

MR . ROLAND : I ' l l mov e t o s t r i k e t he t e s t i mony 16

abou t whe r e t he r e m i gh t be c a r ds l oc a t ed . We don ' t 17

ha v e any e v i denc e o f c a r ds be i ng l oc a t ed e l s ewhe r e .18

THE W I TNESS : I ' v e s e en t hem pe r sona l l y . 19

THE COURT : Ho l d on a s e cond . 20

MR . FROWNFELTER : I oppos e t he mo t i on t o s t r i k e . 21

Couns e l a s k ed t he que s t i on , couns e l go t t he answe r , t he 22

w i t ne s s ha s t e s t i f i ed . 23


( BY MR . ROLAND) So my que s t i on i s , i t ' s 25 Q .

92

pos s i b l e t ha t someone r e c e i v i ng t h i s c a r d m i gh t be 1

r e c e i v i ng s e r v i c e s ou t s i de t he S t a t e o f M i s sou r i ; i sn ' t 2


Uh - huh . 4 A .

I s t ha t a y e s? 5 Q .

Th a t i s po s s i b l e . 6 A .

You men t i oned e a r l i e r t ha t t he AAEP had 7 Q .

sugge s t ed t ha t you t e l l peop l e t o us e v e t s . A t wha t 8

po i n t i n t i me d i d t he y t e l l you t h i s? 9

Th e M i s s ou r i Ve t e r i n a r y Me d i c a l As s o c i a t i on a s 10 A .

we l l a s t h e AAEP i n t h e 2005 t h r ough 2007 r a ng e c ame 11

ou t w i t h o f f i c i a l s t a t eme n t s wh i c h a r e on t h e i r 12

we b s i t e s i n t h e l i t e r a t u r e , a nd I ' v e b e e n a memb e r o f 13

t ho s e a s s o c i a t i on s f o r mo s t o f my c a r e e r i f no t a l l . 14

And t h e , bo t h t h e AAEP a t t h e n a t i on a l c on v e n t i on s , 15

wh i c h I a t t e nd , a nd t h e M i s s ou r i Ve t e r i n a r y Me d i c a l 16

As s o c i a t i on a t t h e c on v e n t i on s , wh i c h I a t t e nd , h a v e 17

d i s t r i bu t e d l i t e r a t u r e t o v e t e r i n a r i a n s t o d i s t r i bu t e 18

t o t h e pub l i c w i t h t h a t o f f i c i a l s t a t eme n t on t h e r e , 19

a nd I h a v e t ho s e l i t e r a t u r e s o r p amph l e t s a t my 20

p r a c t i c e f o r d i s t r i bu t i on . 21

Ok a y . And how many non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r s 22 Q .

ha v e you r epo r t ed t o t he Boa r d a t t h i s t i me? 23

Wh e n I f i l e d t h e c omp l a i n t i n 2007 , I t h i n k 24 A .

t h e r e wa s a f ew t h a t we r e p r a c t i c i ng i n M i s s ou r i , bu t 25

93

non e w i t h my d i r e c t k now l e dg e t h a t we h a d s e e n on t h e 1

I n t e r n e t t h a t we r e a d v e r t i s i ng t h e i r s e r v i c e s . 2

I ' m a s k i ng how many ha v e you r epo r t ed t o t he 3 Q .

Boa r d? 4


Ok a y . D i d you r epo r t t o t he Boa r d t ha t Ta r a 6 Q .

B r ook s wa s a c t i ng a s an un l i c ens ed f l oa t e r ? 7

You h a v e t h e c omp l a i n t t h e r e ; i f I l oo k a t i t I 8 A .

cou l d t e l l you . 9

Ok a y . 10 Q .

MR . ROLAND : Do I ne ed t o show h i m t he o f f i c i a l 11

copy? I w i l l ne ed P l a i n t i f f ' s o r Pe t i t i one r ' s 12

Exh i b i t 8 . Oh , a c t ua l l y , no , i t ' s t he one t ha t wa s h i s 13

r epo r t , so ma ybe i t ' s 6 . 14

THE COURT : I ' l l j us t l e t you . . .15


( BY MR . ROLAND ) So i f you ' l l l ook , now t h i s i s 17 Q .

Page 6 , i t l ook s l i k e , o f t he comp l a i n t t ha t Doc t o r 18

Le i gh r f i l ed w i t h t he Boa r d . I t l ook s l i k e you 19

r epo r t ed Da l e J e f f r e y ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 20

No , I d i d no t r e po r t Da l e J e f f r e y . 21 A .

You subm i t t ed h i s name t o t he Boa r d a s a 22 Q .

non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r ? 23

I d i dn ' t s a y h e wa s f l o a t i ng i n M i s s ou r i . 24 A .

Ok a y , wha t abou t John Fo r t c amp ( phone t i c ) ? 25 Q .

94

I t s a y s r i gh t t h e r e , y e a h , t h a t h e i s 1 A .

a d v e r t i s i ng h i s s e r v i c e s i n M i s s ou r i . 2

Ok a y . And Ta r a B r ook s on Page 7? 3 Q .

Ye s . 4 A .

And Le e M i nx ( phone t i c ) ? 5 Q .

Ye s .6 A .

D i d you ha v e any i n f o r ma t i on a t t h i s po i n t t ha t 7 Q .

any o f t hos e i nd i v i dua l s had i n j u r ed any an i ma l s? 8

I don ' t k now wh a t t h a t h a s t o do w i t h a n y t h i ng .9 A .

Tha t ' s t he que s t i on t hough . D i d you ha v e any 10 Q .

i n f o r ma t i on t ha t t he y had i n j u r ed any an i ma l s? 11

I don ' t k now wh a t t h e r e l e v a n c e t o , t o t h a t i s . 12 A .

My que s t i on i s , d i d you ha v e any i n f o r ma t i on 13 Q .

t ha t t he y had i n j u r ed any an i ma l s? 14

No . 15 A .

So you r pos i t i on i s t ha t t he me r e f a c t t ha t 16 Q .

someone m i gh t be p r ov i d i ng f l oa t i ng s e r v i c e s me ans t he y 17

n e e d t o b e s hu t down ; r i gh t ? 18

My und e r s t a nd i ng o f t h e l aw i n M i s s ou r i i s t h a t 19 A .

un l e s s t h e y ' r e wo r k i ng und e r t h e d i r e c t s up e r v i s i on o f 20

a v e t e r i n a r i a n , o r t h e y ' r e a f u l l - t i me emp l o y e e o f a 21

v e t e r i n a r i a n , t h a t t h e y ' r e no t s uppo s e d t o b e 22

p e r f o r m i ng t h e p r o c e du r e s , a nd t h a t t h e pub l i c , i n my 23

op i n i on - - a r e y ou a s k i ng f o r my op i n i on? 24

I ' m a s k i ng f o r you r op i n i on . 25 Q .

95

I n my op i n i on , t h e pub l i c i s a t r i s k . 1 A .

Ev en no t ha v i ng any i n f o r ma t i on t ha t any o f 2 Q .

t he s e peop l e ha v e i n j u r ed ho r s e s? 3

Th e n a t u r e o f t h e p r o c e du r e i s r i s k y . 4 A .

F l oa t i ng t e e t h? 5 Q .

Ye s . I t ' s a c omp l i c a t e d p r o c e du r e . De n t i s t r y 6 A .

a s a who l e i s c omp l i c a t e d . On c e y ou g e t i n t o a ho r s e ' s 7

mou t h , t h e r e ' s mo r e t h a n j u s t s h a r p e n ame l po i n t s t o 8

d e a l w i t h . 9

A r e you f am i l i a r w i t h a f o r ma l de f i n i t i on o f 10 Q .

f l oa t i ng? 11

Wh y don ' t y ou g i v e i t t o me . 12 A .

Ok a y . A r e you awa r e t ha t t he Ame r i c an 13 Q .

Ve t e r i na r y Den t a l Co l l ege de f i ne s f l oa t i ng a s r emov a l 14

o f sha r p ename l po i n t s f r om v e s t i bu l a r a spe c t o f t he 15

ma x i l l a r y che e k t e e t h and t he l i ngua l a spe c t o f t he 16

mand i bu l a r che e k t e e t h? 17

I am awa r e o f wh a t f l o a t i ng i s , a nd I ' m awa r e 18 A .

o f t h a t d e f i n i t i on . And wh a t I j u s t t o l d y ou i s t h a t 19

wh e n y ou go t o f l o a t a n a n i ma l ' s t e e t h , a nd y ou op e n 20

t h a t mou t h up a nd e x am i n e i t , t h e r e ' s a l o t mo r e t o i t 21

t h a n r emo v a l o f s h a r p e n ame l po i n t s . 22

Do you ha v e any pe r sona l know l edge o f an an i ma l 23 Q .

be i ng i n j u r ed due t o f l oa t i ng? 24

I h a v e b e e n i n j u r e d du r i ng f l o a t i ng , c l i e n t s o f 25 A .

96

m i n e h a v e b e e n i n j u r e d du r i ng f l o a t i ng , a nd I h a v e hu r t 1

ho r s e s du r i ng f l o a t i ng . I t ' s a v e r y c omp l i c a t e d 2

p r o c e du r e t h a t c a n e nd up i n c a u s i ng d ama g e t o p e op l e 3

a nd l i v e s t o c k . And p e op l e who a r e no t t r a i n e d t o 4

h a nd l e t h e eme r g e n c i e s s hou l dn ' t b e do i ng i t . 5

So you pe r sona l l y ha v e i n j u r ed a ho r s e 6 Q .

f l oa t i ng? 7

Ye s . 8 A .

And wha t wa s t he ou t come o f t ha t i n j u r y? 9 Q .

Th e ho r s e h a d s u s t a i n e d s ome l a c e r a t i on s t o t h e 10 A .

t ongu e , t o t h e c h e e k s , a nd b a s i c a l l y t h a t wou l d c o v e r 11

i t . And t h e n I ' v e h a d s i t u a t i on s wh e r e we ' v e h a d 12

p a l a t i n e a r t e r y i n j u r i e s on t h e h a r d p a l a t e . J u s t , y ou 13

c a nno t p r e d i c t how a n a n i ma l t h a t i s a t hou s a nd pound s 14

i s go i ng t o r e a c t i n a s i t u a t i on wh e r e t h e y ' r e c on f i n e d 15

a nd y ou a r e s t i c k i ng e l e c t r i c o r mo t o r i z e d e qu i pme n t 16

i n t o t h e i r mou t h . Th e y my ma y r e a r up , f a l l o v e r 17

b a c kwa r d s , a nd h a v e a s p e c u l um i n t h e i r mou t h . Th i ng s 18

a r e v e r y d a ng e r ou s f o r t h e i nd i v i du a l p e r f o r m i ng t h e 19

p r o c e du r e , d a ng e r ou s f o r t h e a n i ma l , a nd d a ng e r ou s f o r 20

t h e own e r , t h e c l i e n t , o r who e v e r ' s a s s i s t i ng w i t h t h e 21

p r o c e du r e . 22

So i n f a c t wou l d you s a y t ha t i f t he r e s t o f 23 Q .

t he t e s t i mony a t t h i s t r i a l shows t ha t no o t he r w i t ne s s 24

ha s e v e r pe r sona l l y obs e r v ed an i n j u r y r e su l t i ng f r om 25

97

f l oa t i ng , t ha t t he f a c t t ha t you ' v e i n j u r ed ho r s e s 1

r epe a t ed l y m i gh t s a y mo r e abou t you r own s k i l l s? 2

I ' d s a y t h a t i t s hows mo r e o f t h e l i m i t e d 3 A .

numb e r o f w i t n e s s e s t h a t y ou h a v e . 4

MR . ROLAND : We ha v e no f u r t he r que s t i ons , You r 5

Hono r .6

MR . FROWNFELTER : Jus t t he coup l e . 7

8



Doc t o r Le i gh r , you t e s t i f i ed t ha t you r e c e i v ed 11 Q .

one o f t he bus i ne s s c a r ds you i den t i f i ed a t a me e t i ng 12

a t t he f e ed s t o r e ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 13

Ye s . 14 A .

Ha v e you s e en t hos e c a r ds anywhe r e e l s e i n you r 15 Q .

a r e a o f p r a c t i c e? 16

Th e y ' v e b e e n i n s e v e r a l b a r n s . I me a n , I c ou l d 17 A .

n ame s p e c i f i c b a r n s , bu t do y ou wa n t t h e n ame s o f t h e 18

s p e c i f i c b a r n s , do I n e e d t o d r a g mo r e p e op l e i n t o 19

t h i s ? 20

No , I don ' t t h i nk we ne ed name s . App r ox i ma t e l y 21 Q .

how many ba r ns ha v e you s e en i t pos t ed i n , do you ha v e 22

any i de a? 23

P r ob a b l y a bou t t e n . 24 A .

A l l r i gh t , t ha t ' s enough . You men t i oned t ha t 25 Q .

98

on oc c a s i ons i n j u r i e s t o ho r s e s oc cu r r ed i nc l ud i ng 1

l a c e r a t i on o f t ongue , pa l a t i ne a r t e r y and so on wh i l e 2

you we r e pe r f o r m i ng f l oa t s ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 3

Ye s . 4 A .

We r e you ab l e t o t r e a t t hos e i n j u r i e s i n a 5 Q .

v e t e r i na r y manne r wh i l e , when t he y oc cu r r ed? 6

Ye s . 7 A .

Wha t k i nd o f t r e a t men t wou l d be i nvo l v ed , s a y , 8 Q .

i f a ho r s e sus t a i ned a l a c e r a t i on o f t he t ongue ; how 9

wou l d you t r e a t t ha t ? 10

I V a n t i b i o t i c s , I V f l u i d s , ho s p i t a l i z a t i on , 11 A .

a nd , y ou k now , s u t u r i ng , g e n e r a l s u r g e r y . 12

How wou l d you t r e a t - - when you men t i oned t he 13 Q .

pa l a t i ne a r t e r y i n j u r y , wha t so r t o f i n j u r y oc cu r r ed i n 14

t he a r t e r y? 15

Du r i ng a wo l f t oo t h e x t r a c t i on , t h e r e wa s a 16 A .

l a c e r a t i on o f a p a l a t i n e a r t e r y , a nd a ho r s e b l e d 17

c on s i d e r a b l y , a nd I wa s a b l e t o s t op t h e h emo r r h a g e a nd 18

a dm i n i s t e r a pp r op r i a t e a n t i b i o t i c s a nd I V f l u i d s a nd 19

mon i t o r t h e ho r s e a s f a r a s ma k e s u r e i t d i dn ' t b e c ome 20

a n em i c a nd mon i t o r t h e b l ood wo r k , t h e PCB p r o t e i n , 21

t h i ng s l i k e t h a t . 22

When i nc i den t s l i k e t h i s oc cu r and you ha v e t o 23 Q .

t a k e t he s e r emed i a l me a su r e s , i s t ha t v e t e r i na r y 24

med i c i ne? 25

99

Ye s .1 A .

MR . FROWNFELTER : No f u r t he r que s t i ons . 2

3

RECROSS EXAM I NAT I ON4

BY MR . ROLAND :5

You t e s t i f i ed abou t c a r ds t ha t you wou l d s e e i n 6 Q .

ba r ns , v a r i ous ba r ns . I sn ' t i t t r ue t ha t t he mo r e 7

c a r ds t ha t a r e i n t he s e ba r ns , t he l e s s l i k e l y peop l e 8

a r e t o wan t t o us e you r s e r v i c e s? 9

I don ' t r e a l l y t h i n k i t h a s a n y - - i n my 10 A .

op i n i on i t h a s no t h i ng t o do w i t h , w i t h c omp e t i t i on 11

o r - - I ' m mo r e c on c e r n e d a bou t t h e i n i t i a l qu e s t i on I 12

go t f r om Donn a F r y a nd h e r c on c e r n s a bou t h e r ho r s e . 13

So you ' v e ne v e r men t i oned t o anyone t he f a c t 14 Q .

t ha t non - l i c ens ed - - o r non - v e t e r i na r i ans m i gh t o f f e r 15

t he s ame s e r v i c e s , pe r haps h i ghe r qua l i t y , a t a l owe r 16

p r i c e? 17

I don ' t r e c a l l .18 A .

MR . ROLAND : No f u r t he r que s t i ons . 19

MR . FROWNFELTER : No t h i ng f u r t he r , You r Hono r . 20

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t , t hank you . You ma y s t ep 21

down . 22


c a l l Doc t o r S t ephen S . Ga l l owa y . 24

THE COURT : P l e a s e r a i s e you r r i gh t hand and be 25

100

swo r n .1

STEPHEN S . GALLOWAY , du l y swo r n by Depu t y C i r cu i t 2

C l e r k .3

THE W I TNESS : I do . 4

THE COURT : You ma y p r oc e ed . 5

6



Wou l d you s t a t e and spe l l you r name f o r t he 9 Q .

r e co r d , p l e a s e . 10

S t e ph e n S t a n l e y Ga l l owa y , S - t - e - p - h - e - n 11 A .

S t an l e y , S - t - a - n - l - e - y Ga l l owa y , G - a - l - l - o - w - a - y . 12

And wha t i s you r add r e s s? 13 Q .

My p r a c t i c e add r e s s i s An i ma l Ca r e Hosp i t a l , 14 A .

8565 H i ghwa y 64 , Some r v i l l e , Tenne s s e e 38068 . 15


I ' m a v e t e r i na r i an . 17 A .

Whe r e d i d you ha v e you r unde r g r adua t e 18 Q .

educ a t i on? 19

Un i t e d S t a t e s M i l i t a r y Ac a d emy a t We s t Po i n t . 20 A .

And wha t pos t g r adua t e - - wha t , a f t e r you 21 Q .

a t t ended We s t Po i n t , d i d you s e r v e i n t he U . S . 22

m i l i t a r y? 23

Ye s . 24 A .

And wha t pe r i od o f t i me d i d you s e r v e? 25 Q .

101

I s e r v e d f r om 1986 t h r ough 1991 . 1 A .

Wha t pos t g r adua t e educ a t i on do you ha v e? 2 Q .

I h a v e a do c t o r a t e i n v e t e r i n a r y me d i c i n e f r om 3 A .

No r t h Ca r o l i n a S t a t e Un i v e r s i t y , 1996 . 4

And i n wha t s t a t e s a r e you l i c ens ed a s a 5 Q .

v e t e r i na r i an? 6

T e nn e s s e e , M i s s i s s i pp i , No r t h Ca r o l i n a a nd 7 A .

Te x a s . 8

I ' d l i k e t o show you wha t I ha v e ma r k ed a s 9 Q .

P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 10 . Wha t i s t ha t , p l e a s e?10

My CV a s o f 8 / 15 / 2011 . 11 A .

You r cu r r i cu l um v i t a e de s c r i b i ng you r 12 Q .

educ a t i on , oc cupa t i on , a s soc i a t i ons , e t c e t e r a? 13

Ye ah .14 A .

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ' d l i k e t o o f f e r i n t o e v i denc e 15

P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 10 .16


e v i denc e . )18

MR . ROLAND : No ob j e c t i on . 19

THE COURT : P l a i n t i f f ' s 10 w i l l be adm i t t ed .20

( P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 10 wa s adm i t t ed i n t o21

e v i denc e . ) 22




102

Th a t ' s a b r i e f s y nop s i s o f my m i l i t a r y h i s t o r y 1 A .

r e co r d and commun i t y s e r v i c e . 2

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , I ' m go i ng t o ob j e c t t o 3

t ha t one on r e l e v anc e g r ound . No t h i ng abou t h i s 4

m i l i t a r y r e co r d and commun i t y s e r v i c e ha s any be a r i ng 5

on h i s e xpe r t i s e . 6

MR . FROWNFELTER : Th i s i s a - - I ha v en ' t o f f e r ed 7

t he e xh i b i t y e t , a c t ua l l y . I ' d l i k e t o o f f e r 8

P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 11 , and t h i s i s a r e sume t ha t 9

i nc l ude s no t on l y m i l i t a r y s e r v i c e bu t a l so commun i t y 10

a c t i v i t i e s r e l a t i ng t o v e t e r i na r y conc e r ns . 11


e v i denc e . ) 13

MR . ROLAND : I ' l l r e s t a t e my ob j e c t i on , You r Hono r , 14

I don ' t be l i e v e t ha t t h i s i n f o r ma t i on i s r e l e v an t t o 15

h i s e xpe r t i s e . 16

THE COURT : I t doe s men t i on some - - i f you had an 17

oppo r t un i t y - - i t doe s men t i on some o f h i s v e t wo r k , so 18

I ' l l a l l ow i t f o r t ha t l i m i t ed pu r pos e and ba c kg r ound . 19


e v i denc e . )21

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER) Wha t ' s t he na t u r e o f you r 22 Q .

cu r r en t p r a c t i c e? 23

We ' r e a m i x e d a n i ma l p r a c t i c e w i t h t h e f o c u s on 24 A .

v e t e r i na r y den t i s t r y . 25

103

App r ox i ma t e l y wha t pe r c en t age o f you r p r a c t i c e 1 Q .

i s equ i ne den t a l wo r k? 2

Equ i ne den t a l wo r k , 75 pe r c en t o f my pe r sona l 3 A .

p r a c t i c e . 4

How d i d you be come i n t e r e s t ed i n equ i ne 5 Q .

den t i s t r y? 6

A t t e nd e d a l e c t u r e s e r i e s b y M i k e Lowd e r 7 A .

( phon e t i c ) i n 2001 a t t h e No r t h Ame r i c a n Ve t e r i n a r y 8

Con f e r enc e . 9

A t t ha t po i n t i n you r c a r e e r had you be en do i ng 10 Q .

equ i ne wo r k i n gene r a l ? 11

A t a b a s i c l e v e l , y e s . 12 A .

And had you be en do i ng den t i s t r y a s pa r t o f 13 Q .

t ha t wo r k? 14

A t a b a s i c l e v e l . 15 A .

A l l r i gh t , when you be c ame i n t e r e s t ed i n equ i ne 16 Q .

den t i s t r y , t hen , wha t s t eps d i d you t a k e t o de v e l op 17

you r compe t enc y i n equ i ne den t i s t r y?18

I s t a r t ed a f o r ma l s t udy p r og r am , b a s i c a l l y . 19 A .

So I s t a r t e d go i ng t o CE . I l og i s t i c a l l y p r e p a r e d my 20

p r a c t i c e t o do a d v a n c e d d e n t a l p r o c e du r e s , a nd I 21

v i s i t e d w i t h o t h e r v e t e r i n a r i a n s , a nd a s a r u l e I go t 22

i n t o f o r ma l t r a i n i ng p r og r ams . 23

A l l r i gh t , ha v e you done any r e s i denc i e s o r 24 Q .

f o r ma l t r a i n i ngs , t ha t so r t ? 25

104

Ye s , I ' v e don e f o r ma l t r a i n i ng t h r ough t h e 1 A .

Ac a d emy o f Ve t e r i n a r y De n t i s t r y , I ' m a f e l l ow o f t h e 2

a c a d emy , a nd I ' m c u r r e n t l y a d e n t a l r e s i d e n t a t t h e 3

Un i v e r s i t y o f Co r n e l l . 4

App r ox i ma t e l y how many f e l l ows o f t he Ac ademy 5 Q .

o f Ve t e r i na r y Den t i s t r y a r e t he r e? 6

Th e r e ' s 82 f e l l ows ; f i v e o f t ho s e a r e c e r t i f i e d 7 A .

i n e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y . 8

A r e you c e r t i f i ed i n equ i ne den t i s t r y? 9 Q .

Ye s , I am . 10 A .

I n t he Ac ademy unde r whos e con t r o l a r e you , o r 11 Q .

j us t doe s t he Ac ademy o f Ve t e r i na r y - - I ' d l i k e t o ge t 12

a l i t t l e b i t o f an e xp l ana t i on i n t e r ms o f wha t t he 13

Ac ademy o f Ve t e r i na r y Den t i s t r y i s . Who e s t ab l i shed 14

t he Ac ademy? 15

Th e Ac a d emy i s a n o r g a n i z a t i on wh e r e i f y ou ' r e 16 A .

t r y i ng t o e s t a b l i s h a s p e c i a l t y c o l l e g e w i t h i n t h e 17

a c a d emy , t o d emon s t r a t e t h a t y ou h a v e qu a l i f i e d 18

p r o f e s s i on a l s who c a n t a k e on t h e r o l e a s a d i p l oma t 19

w i t h i n a c o l l e g e . So i t ' s und e r t h e umb r e l l a o f t h e 20

Ame r i c a n Ve t e r i n a r y De n t a l Co l l e g e .21

MR . FROWNFELTER : A t t h i s po i n t I wou l d r eque s t 22

t ha t t he Cou r t r e cogn i z e Doc t o r Ga l l owa y a s an e xpe r t 23

on t he sub j e c t o f v e t e r i na r y den t i s t r y . 24

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , we don ' t ob j e c t t o h i s 25

105

qua l i f i c a t i on a s an e xpe r t i n t he f i e l d o f v e t e r i na r y 1

den t i s t r y . We a r e no t c e r t a i n t ha t i t ' s be en 2

e s t ab l i shed t ha t he ha s e xpe r t i s e r e l a t i ng t o t he 3

spe c i f i c que s t i on o f f l oa t i ng . 4

MR . FROWNFELTER : We w i l l add r e s s t ha t a s pa r t o f 5

h i s t e s t i mony . 6

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t , I w i l l a c know l edge t ha t he 7

i s , and you pa r t l y appa r en t l y ag r e e , he i s an e xpe r t i n 8

equ i ne den t i s t r y , bu t no t r ega r d i ng f l oa t i ng a t t h i s 9

po i n t , t ha t w i l l no t be a c know l edged . 10

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) Doc t o r Ga l l owa y , wha t i s 11 Q .

you r de f i n i t i on o f wha t cons t i t u t e s v e t e r i na r y 12

den t i s t r y? 13

Ve t e r i n a r y d e n t i s t r y i s t h e b r a n c h o f 14 A .

v e t e r i n a r y p r a c t i c e , i n c l ud e s t h e a s s e s sme n t , 15

d i a gno s i s , t r e a t me n t a nd p r e v e n t i on o f d i s e a s e s , 16

d i s o r d e r s a nd c ond i t i on s o f t h e t e e t h , o r a l c a v i t y , t h e 17

ma x i l l o f a c i a l l y a nd a s s o c i a t e d s t r u c t u r e s , a nd a l s o how 18

o r a l s t r u c t u r e s a f f e c t t h e g e n e r a l h e a l t h o f t h e a n i ma l 19

a nd how t h e h e a l t h o f t h e a n i ma l e f f e c t s a f f e c t s o r a l 20

d i s e a s e a nd d i s o r d e r s . 21

How i s v e t e r i na r y den t i s t r y o r gan i z ed i n t e r ms 22 Q .

o f pa r t i cu l a r d i s c i p l i ne s o r a r e a s o f conc e r n? 23

Th e r e ' s f i v e d i s c i p l i n e s o f d e n t i s t r y w i t h i n 24 A .

t h e b r a n c h o f v e t e r i n a r y d e n t i s t r y . 25

106

And wha t a r e t hos e d i s c i p l i ne s? 1 Q .

O r a l s u r g e r y , p e r i odon t i c s , e ndodon t i c s , 2 A .

r e s t o r a t i v e d e n t i s t r y , a nd o r t hodon t i c s . 3

A l l r i gh t , go i ng t h r ough t hos e , wha t doe s 4 Q .

endodon t i c s i nvo l v e? 5

Th a t ' s t h e t r e a t me n t , o r d i a gno s i s a nd 6 A .

t r e a t me n t o f p r ob l ems w i t h i n t h e pu l p c a n a l s y s t em . 7

And wha t doe s pe r i odon t i c s i nvo l v e? 8 Q .

Th e d i a gno s i s a nd t r e a t me n t o f c ond i t i on s 9 A .

i n v o l v e t h e p e r i odon t i um . Th e p e r i odon t i um i s t h e 10

a l v e o l a r bon e , p e r i odon t a l l i g ame n t , c eme n t um 11

g i ng i v i t e . 12

Wha t i s i nvo l v ed i n r e s t o r a t i v e den t i s t r y? 13 Q .

Th a t wou l d b e t h e r e s t o r a t i on o f a t oo t h t o a 14 A .

no r ma l f un c t i on a l f o r m . T y p i c a l l y t h a t ' s wh a t y ou 15

t h i n k o f a s f i l l i ng s o r c r own s . 16

Wha t doe s o r t hodon t i c s i nvo l v e? 17 Q .

O r t hodon t i c s i s gu i d i ng t h e t e e t h i n t o t h e 18 A .

c o r r e c t f un c t i on a l d e n t a l po s i t i on . 19

And wha t i s i nc l uded unde r t he amb i t o f o r a l 20 Q .

su r ge r y? 21

O r a l s u r g e r y wou l d b e a n y s u r g i c a l 22 A .

i n t e r v e n t i on , t o i n c l ud e e x t r a c t i on s . 23

Wha t i s t he cu r r en t s t anda r d o f c a r e f o r t he 24 Q .

pe r f o r manc e o f equ i ne den t i s t r y , gene r a l l y? 25

107

Equ i n e d e n t i s t r y , a d e n t a l c a s e wou l d b e t h e 1 A .

s ame a s a n y o t h e r v e t e r i n a r y c a s e , s o i t wou l d p r e s e n t 2

t o y ou w i t h a c omp l a i n t a nd t h e v e t e r i n a r i a n wou l d n e e d 3

t o r e v i ew t h e c omp l a i n t t o s e e wh e t h e r t h i s wa s a 4

r ou t i n e p r o c e du r e o r e l e c t i v e p r o c e du r e o r wh e t h e r 5

t h e r e ' s s ome r e a s on t h a t t h e a n i ma l ' s p r e s e n t i ng . 6

Th e n we wou l d t a k e a h i s t o r y t o t r y t o f u r t h e r 7

f i nd ou t wh a t ' s c a u s i ng t h e p r ob l em . F o l l ow i ng t h a t 8

y ou wou l d do a ph y s i c a l e x am i n a t i on o f t h e a n i ma l t o 9

ma k e s u r e t h a t t h e r e i s no h e a l t h c ond i t i on s t h a t wou l d 10

p r e c l ud e y ou f r om do i ng a n o r a l e x am i n a t i on , o r y ou 11

m i gh t h a v e a h i gh e r p r i o r i t y c ond i t i on , wh e r e y ou wou l d 12

n e e d t o t r e a t t h a t b e f o r e y ou d i d t h e d e n t a l p r o c e du r e . 13

You wou l d n e x t e x am i n e t h e h e a d f o r c h e c k i ng 14

ou t t h e r e g i on a l s t r u c t u r e s , a nd a t t h a t po i n t y ou 15

wou l d r e s t r a i n a nd s e d a t e t h e ho r s e a nd p e r f o r m a n o r a l 16

e x am i n a t i on . Ba s e d on y ou r o r a l e x am i n a t i on y ou ' d ma k e 17

a d i a gno s i s . Ba s e d on t h e d i a gno s e s y ou ma k e , t h e y 18

w i l l i nd i c a t e t r e a t me n t s t h a t n e e d t o b e p e r f o r me d . 19

Ok a y , we ' v e he a r d a l o t o f t e s t i mony r ega r d i ng 20 Q .

t he sub j e c t o f t oo t h f l oa t i ng . Wha t i s you r de f i n i t i on 21

o f t he t e r m t oo t h f l oa t i ng? 22

I t h i n k my d e f i n i t i on i s t h e d e f i n i t i on t h e 23 A .

d e f e n s e g a v e . So s t r i c t l y s p e a k i ng , t oo t h f l o a t i ng i s 24

i r r e v e r s i b l e odon t op l a s t i c p r o c e du r e wh e r e y ou ' r e 25

108

r a s p i ng o r r emo v i ng t h e s h a r p e n ame l po i n t s f r om t h e 1

v e s t i bu l a r a s p e c t o f t h e ma x i l l a r y c h e e k t e e t h a nd t h e 2

l i ngu a l a s p e c t o f t h e ma nd i bu l a r c h e e k t e e t h . 3

Whe r e doe s t oo t h f l oa t i ng f i t i n unde r t he 4 Q .

d i s c i p l i ne s o f v e t e r i na r y den t i s t r y t ha t you de s c r i bed? 5

So i t ' s a n odon t op l a s t y p r o c e du r e , me a n i ng 6 A .

y ou ' r e r e s h a p i ng t h e c r own o f t h e t oo t h , a nd i t f i t s 7

und e r o r t hodon t i c a c c o r d i ng t o t h e d e n t a l c o l l e g e . 8

Wha t k i nd o f i s sue s c an p r ob l ems r e l a t i ng t o a 9 Q .

ho r s e ' s o r a l he a l t h and t he s t a t e o f i t s t e e t h and i t s 10

mou t h ha v e on o t he r pa r t s o f t he ho r s e ' s body? 11

I n ho r s e s a s we l l a s o t h e r s p e c i e s , i t ' s b e e n 12 A .

do c ume n t e d t h a t o r a l i n f e c t i on s c a n l e a d t o s y s t em i c 13

p r ob l ems . 14

Wha t k i nd o f s y s t em i c p r ob l ems? 15 Q .

I n t h e ho r s e c a r d i o , a c a r d i omy op a t h y h a s b e e n 16 A .

r e po r t e d s e c ond a r y t o a d e n t a l p r o c e du r e . I n o t h e r 17

s p e c i e s t h e r e ' s a d i r e c t c o r r e l a t i on b e t we e n d i a b e t e s 18

a nd o r a l h e a l t h . Tho s e wou l d b e t wo e x amp l e s . 19

Wha t k i nd o f r eg i ona l i n t e r ms o f t he ho r s e ' s 20 Q .

mou t h and he ad c an ha v e an i mpa c t on a ho r s e ' s o r a l 21

he a l t h? 22

Re g i on a l l y , w i t h i n t h e s c op e o f d e n t i s t r y , y ou 23 A .

wou l d h a v e t o c on s i d e r t h e TMJ s i n c e t h a t ' s t h e on l y 24

j o i n t o f ma s t i c a t i on . So TMJ i s s u e s , mu s c u l a r i s s u e s , 25

109

n e u r o l og i c i s s u e s . 1

And TMJ s t ands f o r ? 2 Q .

T empo r oma nd i bu l a r j o i n t . So t h e mu s c l e s o f 3 A .

ma s t i c a t i on , y ou h a v e r e g i on a l l ymph nod e s t h a t n e e d t o 4

c on s i d e r e d , t h e n e r v e s t h a t i nn e r v a t e , a nd b l ood 5

v e s s e l s . A l s o i n t h e ho r s e s p e c i f i c a l l y , t h e s i nu s e s 6

a r e i n t i ma t e l y a s s o c i a t e d w i t h t h e , wh a t we c a l l t h e 7

c h e e k t e e t h i n t h e ma x i l l a r y a r e a . So y ou t y p i c a l l y 8

h a v e s i nu s i t i s e s a s s o c i a t e d w i t h p r ob l ems w i t h t ho s e 9

f ou r ma x i l l a r y t e e t h . 10

Wha t k i nd o f i mpa c t doe s i t ha v e on you r 11 Q .

ab i l i t y t o pe r f o r m o r a l p r oc edu r e s such a s t oo t h 12

f l oa t i ng i f one o f t he s e cond i t i ons i s p r e s en t ? 13

Tho s e c ond i t i on s h a v e t o b e a dd r e s s e d t o t a k e 14 A .

c a r e o f t h e p a t i e n t . So y ou wou l dn ' t do t oo t h f l o a t i ng 15

w i t hou t t a k i ng c a r e o f t h e p a t i e n t a s a who l e . 16

Wha t k i nds o f s y s t em i c o r l a r ge r he a l t h 17 Q .

p r ob l ems c an man i f e s t t hems e l v e s and appe a r i n t he 18

ho r s e ' s mou t h? 19

I ' d s a y on e o f t h e b i gg e s t c on c e r n wou l d b e 20 A .

r a b i e s v i r u s . T y p i c a l l y i t p r e s e n t s i n l a r g e a n i ma l s 21

a s a d y s ph a g i a , n e u r o l og i c a l d y s ph a g i a . Ve s i c u l a r 22

s t oma t i t i s i s a no t h e r ma j o r on e t h a t w i l l p r e s e n t a s a 23

v e s i c u l a r s t oma t i t i s . U l c e r a t i on s w i t h i n t h e mou t h , 24

a nd t h a t ' s a r e po r t a b l e d i s e a s e t h a t , i t ' s c on t a g i ou s 25

110

t o ho r s e s a nd i t ' s a d e a t h l y i l l n e s s t o ho r s e s . Tho s e 1

a r e t h e t wo b i g on e s . 2

How wou l d you d i s cov e r t he p r e s enc e o f any o f 3 Q .

t he s e d i s e a s e s? 4

Tho r ough e x am i n a t i on a nd po s s i b l y f o l l ow - up 5 A .

d i a gno s t i c wo r k . 6

I s t he r e any pe e r - r e v i ewed l i t e r a t u r e wh i ch 7 Q .

add r e s s e s t he que s t i on o f whe t he r o r a l e x am i n a t i on i s 8

ne c e s s a r y p r i o r t o t he pe r f o r manc e o f o r t hodon t i c 9

p r oc edu r e s on t he mou t h? 10

Ye s . Th e r e ' s , I t h i n k i n a l l t h e c u r r e n t t e x t 11 A .

boo k s i t a dd r e s s e s t h e i s s u e . And t h e r e a r e r e f e r e e d 12

p a p e r s a v a i l a b l e t h a t do do c ume n t t h a t t h e ph y s i c a l 13

e x am i n a t i on s hou l d b e p e r f o r me d b e f o r e a n o r a l 14

e x am i n a t i on . 15

Do you know o f any book s o r t e x t book s t ha t 16 Q .

add r e s s t ha t sub j e c t ? 17

I k now Da v i d K l ugh ' s P r i n c i p l e s o f Equ i n e 18 A .

De n t i s t r y . I t h i n k i t wa s pub l i s h e d i n 2010 , ma k e s 19

s p e c i f i c r e f e r e n c e t o i t s e v e r a l t i me s . J ohn H i c k e y ' s 20

p a p e r t h a t wa s pub l i s h e d t h r ough t h e AAEP c ame ou t , I 21

wa n t t o s a y t wo , t h r e e y e a r s a go , i t s p e c i f i c a l l y 22

a dd r e s s e s t h a t . And I ' m s u r e i t ' s a dd r e s s e d i n t h e n ew 23

e d i t i on o f Equ i n e De n t i s t r y t h a t ' s e d i t e d b y E a s l e y .24

I ' d l i k e t o show you wha t ha s be en - - f i r s t I ' d 25 Q .

111

be t t e r ma r k i t . I ' d l i k e t o show you wha t I ha v e 1

ma r k ed a s Pe t i t i one r ' s Exh i b i t 12 . Do you r e cogn i z e 2


Th a t ' s J on G i e c h e ' s p a p e r on a s s e s sme n t o f t h e 4 A .

e qu i n e o r a l h e a l t h . 5

I s t ha t t he pape r t o wh i ch you we r e r e f e r r i ng? 6 Q .

Ye s . 7 A .

And wha t a r e Doc t o r G i e che ' s conc l us i ons i n 8 Q .

t e r ms o f t he ne c e s s i t y f o r e x am i na t i on? 9

A c omp l e t e e x am i s t h e b a s i s f o r a pp r op r i a t e 10 A .

t r e a t me n t i s on e . I h i gh l i gh t e d t h a t . I t h i n k t h a t ' s 11

t h e p r i ma r y on e . He a l s o s a y s t h a t a ph y s i c a l e x am o f 12

t h e e n t i r e ho r s e s hou l d b e p e r f o r me d . 13

A l l r i gh t , t he r e ' s some h i gh l i gh t i ng i n t he 14 Q .

a r t i c l e wh i ch you ha v e be f o r e you . Who d i d t ha t 15

h i gh l i gh t i ng? 16

I d i d . 17 A .

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ok a y , a t t h i s po i n t I wou l d l i k e 18

t o o f f e r Pe t i t i one r ' s Exh i b i t 12 i n t o e v i denc e .19


e v i denc e . ) 21

MR . ROLAND : We ha v e no ob j e c t i on . 22

THE COURT : Pe t i t i one r ' s 12 w i l l be adm i t t ed . 23

Thank you .24


112

e v i denc e . ) 1

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) I ' d l i k e t o show you wha t 2 Q .

I ' v e ma r k ed a s Pe t i t i one r ' s Exh i b i t 13 . Do you 3

r e cogn i z e t h i s documen t ?4

Ye s , i t ' s Bob Ba r a t t ' s . I t ' s t i t l e d " How To 5 A .

Re c ogn i z e a nd C l i n i c a l l y Ma n a g e C l a s s 1 Ma l o c c l u s i on s 6

i n t h e Ho r s e , " a nd i t ' s a r e f e r e e p a p e r on t h e p r op e r 7

p e r f o r ma n c e o f odon t op l a s t y o r f l o a t i ng . 8

And wha t conc l us i ons doe s Doc t o r Ba r a t t r e a ch 9 Q .

on t ha t ? 10

He c on c l ud e s t h a t , h e c on c l ud e s t h a t p r ob a b l y 11 A .

wh a t we ' r e do i ng t h e s e d a y s i s t oo mu c h ; t h a t e v e r y 12

i nd i v i du a l t oo t h s hou l d b e a dd r e s s e d a f t e r e x am i n i ng 13

t h a t t oo t h a nd d e t e r m i n i ng how t h a t t oo t h a f f e c t s t h e 14

f un c t i on o f t h e mou t h b e f o r e we r e du c e t h e t oo t h . So 15

h e ' s l oo k i ng a t i t f r om a n o r t hodon t i c s t a ndpo i n t , a 16

v e t e r i n a r y p r o f e s s i on a l s t a ndpo i n t . 17

Doe s he add r e s s i t , t h i s sub j e c t o f phy s i c a l 18 Q .

and o r a l e x am i n a t i on p r i o r t o pe r f o r manc e o f t he 19

p r oc edu r e? 20

I don ' t b e l i e v e h e s p e c i f i c a l l y a dd r e s s e s t h i s 21 A .

i n h e r e . He ' s a dd r e s s i ng t h e odon t op l a s t y p r o c e du r e s 22

a nd wh y t h e y s hou l d b e don e . He do e s me n t i on i n h e r e 23

s ome e x am i n a t i on t oo l s t h a t s hou l d b e u s e d a s p a r t o f 24

t h e e x am i n a t i on . He a l s o me n t i on s t h a t r a d i og r a ph y 25

113

ough t t o b e u s e d i f y ou c a nno t d e t e r m i n e wh y t h e 1

ma l o c c l u s i on i s t h e r e , wh i c h o f t e n t h e l ong t oo t h , t h e 2

t oo t h t h a t we ' r e r e du c i ng , i s no t t h e d i s e a s e d t oo t h . 3

Th e d i s e a s e d t oo t h i s t h e on e t h a t oppo s e s i t . So t h e 4

l ong t oo t h t h a t we r e du c e i s t h e h e a l t h y t oo t h , a nd 5

he ' s add r e s s i ng t ha t . 6

MR . FROWNFELTER : Thank you . I ' d l i k e t o o f f e r 7

Pe t i t i one r ' s Exh i b i t 13 i n t o e v i denc e .8


e v i denc e . ) 10


THE COURT : P l a i n t i f f ' s No . 13 w i l l be adm i t t ed .12


e v i denc e . ) 14

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) Wha t l e v e l o f e xpe r t i s e 15 Q .

i s ne c e s s a r y t o conduc t a p r ope r phy s i c a l e x am i na t i on 16

p r i o r t o den t a l p r oc edu r e s? 17

Ve t e r i n a r y t r a i n i ng . 18 A .

Wh a t l e v e l o f e x p e r t i s e i s r e qu i r e d t o c ondu c t 19 Q .

an o r a l e x am i na t i on o f t h i s na t u r e? 20

Ve t e r i n a r y t r a i n i ng . 21 A .

Wha t ' s t he r o l e o f s eda t i on i n t he pe r f o r manc e 22 Q .

o f equ i ne den t i s t r y? 23

Se d a t i on i s u s e d f o r s e v e r a l r e a s on s . F i r s t , 24 A .

f i r s t wou l d b e s a f e t y t o t h e huma n s i n v o l v e d w i t h t h e 25

114

p r o c e du r e a nd b y s t a nd a r d s . I t ' s a l r e a d y b e e n 1

a dd r e s s e d t h a t t h e ho r s e i s a n unp r e d i c t a b l e , d a ng e r ou s 2

a n i ma l . 3

Se c ond r e a s on wou l d b e we l f a r e o f t h e a n i ma l . 4

Be c a u s e wh e n y ou ' r e do i ng t h e s e p r o c e du r e s t h e r e ' s t h e 5

po s s i b i l i t y f o r c omp l i c a t i on s a nd i n j u r i e s j u s t du e t o 6

t h e n a t u r e o f h a v i ng s ome t h i ng i n t h e ho r s e ' s mou t h . 7

I t a l l ows f o r c omp l i a n c e du r i ng t h e p r o c e du r e , s o t h a t 8

y ou c a n a c t u a l l y e x am i n e t h e a n i ma l c omp l e t e l y , b e c a u s e 9

du r i ng a n o r a l e x am y ou ' r e b a s i c a l l y l oo k i ng down a 10

f ou r - i n c h p i p e t h a t ' s a bou t 15 i n c h e s l ong , a nd y ou ' r e 11

l oo k i ng f o r s ome t h i ng t h a t c ou l d b e t h e s i z e o f a 12

p i nho l e . So i t a l l ows c omp l i a n c e du r i ng t h e 13

e x am i n a t i on ph a s e a nd t h e p r o c e du r a l ph a s e , a nd s ome o f 14

t h e a n a l g e s i c s w i l l p r o v i d e a n a l g e s i a i n a p a i n f u l 15

s i t u a t i on . 16

A l l r i gh t . Wha t mus t be done , wha t do you ha v e 17 Q .

t o do be f o r e you c an adm i n i s t e r a s eda t i v e t o t he 18

an i ma l ? 19

I me a n , y ou s hou l d do a ph y s i c a l e x am t o a s s e s s 20 A .

t h e c a r d i o v a s c u l a r s t a t u s o f t h e a n i ma l . 21

Wha t r i s k s a r e t he r e i f s eda t i v e s a r e 22 Q .

adm i n i s t e r ed w i t hou t t h i s e x am? 23

Mo s t s e d a t i v e s , t h e r e ' s s i d e e f f e c t s on mo s t o f 24 A .

t h em . Th e y d r op y ou r h e a r t r a t e , t h e y d r op y ou r 25

115

r e s p i r a t e , t h e y d r op y ou r b l ood p r e s s u r e . So t h a t 1

c ou l d l e a d t o a c a r d i o v a s c u l a r e v e n t wh e r e t h e y 2

c o l l a p s e on y ou . 3

Wha t k i nd o f s eda t i v e s a r e gene r a l l y us ed f o r 4 Q .

t h i s pu r pos e? 5

We g e n e r a l l y u s e a c omb i n a t i on o f s e d a t i v e s , 6 A .

t r a nqu i l i z e r s a nd n a r c o t i c s . 7

Wha t a r e t he common d r ugs t ha t a r e us ed f o r t he 8 Q .

pu r pos e? 9

W i t h i n t h e A l ph a 2 c l a s s we u s e x y l a z i n e o r 10 A .

me t h e d i n e a nd d e t om i d i n e . D i a z e p am i s u s e d i n s ome 11

ho r s e s w i t h i n t h e op i a l c l a s s o f bu t o r ph a no l i s a 12

c ommon l y u s e d d r ug . 13

Wha t l ega l r e s t r i c t i ons a r e t he r e on t he us e o f 14 Q .

t he s e s eda t i v e s? 15

MR . ROLAND : Ob j e c t i on , You r Hono r . He i s no t 16

qua l i f i ed a s a l ega l e xpe r t . 17

MR . FROWNFELTER : I n r e spons e I ' d s a y t ha t t h i s i s 18

a t r a i ned med i c a l v e t e r i na r i an , med i c a l p r o f e s s i ona l 19

who us e s t he s e med i c a t i ons on a r egu l a r ba s i s and 20

c e r t a i n l y ne eds t o be f am i l i a r w i t h t he l ega l 21

r e s t r i c t i ons on t he i r us e . The l ega l r e s t r i c t i ons a r e 22

no t i n t e r p r e t a t i ons o f l aw . I t ' s usua l l y a v e r y 23

spe c i f i c p r oh i b i t i on on t he l abe l l i ng on t he bo t t l e , on 24

t he i n f o r ma t i on a v a i l ab l e on t he d r ug i t s e l f , so I 25

116

be l i e v e he i s qua l i f i ed t o add r e s s t he r e s t r i c t i ons . 1

THE COURT : Unde r M i s sou r i l aw? 2

MR . FROWNFELTER : Many o f t hem a r e unde r f ede r a l 3

l aw . 4

THE COURT : I ' m go i ng t o sus t a i n t he ob j e c t i on f o r 5

now . I t h i nk I ne ed t o know a l i t t l e mo r e abou t wha t 6

h i s e xpe r t i s e i s on t ha t i n t ha t r e spe c t .7

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) F r om a med i c a l 8 Q .

s t andpo i n t , wha t l e v e l o f - - wha t a r e t he bene f i t s o f 9

us i ng s eda t i on i n a , i n an equ i ne den t a l s i t ua t i on? 10

I t h i n k t h e y d i r e c t l y a dd r e s s t h e ob j e c t i v e s I 11 A .

s t a t e d , s o i t ' s a s a f e t y p r o c e du r e . You ' r e l e s s l i k e l y 12

t o h a r m t h e ho r s e o r p e op l e a r ound t h em . I f t h e a n i ma l 13

i s c omp l i a n t y ou c a n ma k e a b e t t e r d i a gno s i s o r a mo r e 14

a c c u r a t e d i a gno s e , a nd y ou c a n t r e a t t h e a n i ma l 15

c a p r i z a n t l y . And i f y ou ' r e d e a l i ng w i t h t h e p a i n f u l 16

p r o c e du r e , s u c h a s a n o r a l s u r g e r y , i t p r o v i d e s 17

a n a l g e s i a f o r - - a nd t h a t ' s a n a n i ma l we l f a r e i s s u e , 18

t oo , s t a nd a r d o f c a r e i s s u e . 19

A r e you f am i l i a r w i t h any e x amp l e s f r om you r 20 Q .

p r a c t i c e i n wh i ch a ho r s e wa s p r e s en t ed f o r den t a l 21

wo r k , and you de t e c t ed t ha t s eda t i on m i gh t be a med i c a l 22

i s sue? 23

Th a t s e d a t i on m i gh t b e a me d i c a l i s s u e ? 24 A .

Ye s . 25 Q .

117

I don ' t und e r s t a nd t h e qu e s t i on . 1 A .

We l l , c an you r e c a l l any c a s e s i n wh i ch a ho r s e 2 Q .

wa s p r e s en t ed f o r den t a l wo r k , den t a l e x am i n a t i on , 3

t oo t h f l oa t i ng , wha t e v e r pu r pos e , and you de t e c t ed t ha t 4

t he r e cou l d be a med i c a l p r ob l em w i t h t he us e o f 5

s eda t i on? 6

Ye s . L a s t we e k I e x am i n e d a s e n i o r ho r s e t h a t 7 A .

wa s a r e s c u e . He wa s Bod y Cond i t i on 2 ou t o f 9 , t h a t ' s 8

a s t a nd a r d bod y c ond i t i on s c o r i ng s y s t em we u s e wh i c h 9

me a n s h e wa s ema c i a t e d . And I d e t e r m i n e d t h a t we 10

s hou l d t r y t o f i gu r e ou t wh a t h i s ph y s i c a l c ond i t i on 11

wa s b e f o r e we s e d a t e d t h e ho r s e . 12

And t h e n i t wa s - - i n a no t h e r e p i s od e I ' v e s e e n 13

a no r ma l l y p r e s e n t i ng ho r s e t h a t d i d h a v e a n a d v e r s e 14

e f f e c t t o a s e d a t i v e , a nd I wa s f o r c e d t o s t op t h e 15

p r o c e du r e i mme d i a t e l y a nd do eme r g e n c y t r e a t me n t . 16

Wha t m i gh t ha v e happened i f you had p r oc e eded 17 Q .

t o adm i n i s t e r a s eda t i v e w i t hou t ha v i ng done t ha t 18

e x am i na t i on? 19

U l t i ma t e l y d e a t h . 20 A .

I s i t pos s i b l e t o do an o r a l e x am o r 21 Q .

o r t hodon t i c p r oc edu r e s w i t hou t s eda t i on? 22

No . 23 A .

We l l i t ' s c e r t a i n l y - - I shou l d p r obab l y 24 Q .

c l a r i f y t ha t . 25

118

I n you r op i n i on i s i t med i c a l l y r e spons i b l e t o 1

a t t emp t t o pe r f o r m den t a l p r oc edu r e s i n t he mou t h o f a 2

ho r s e w i t hou t s eda t i on? 3

No . Be c a u s e y ou n e e d t o s e d a t e t h e a n i ma l t o 4 A .

g e t a n a c c u r a t e d i a gno s i s . W i t hou t a n a c c u r a t e 5

d i a gno s i s , no t r e a t me n t i s i nd i c a t e d . 6

Wha t so r t o f equ i pmen t i s gene r a l l y us ed i n 7 Q .

pe r f o r m i ng an o r a l e x am i n a t i on on a ho r s e? 8

O r a l e x am i n a t i on , s o y ou h a v e , y ou h a v e go t t h e 9 A .

s e d a t i v e e qu i pme n t , r e s t r a i n i s t y p i c a l l y , r e s t r a i n t h e 10

a n i ma l s , a nd s ome p e op l e l i k e t o u s e s t o c k s , s ome 11

p e op l e l i k e t o c on f i n e a n i ma l s t o a sma l l qu i e t a r e a , 12

l i k e a wa s h r a c k i n a b a r n . Bu t y ou do n e e d a qu i e t 13

a r e a . Th e i n s t r ume n t a t i on y ou u s e du r i ng t h e 14

e x am i n a t i on p r o c e du r e i s s i m i l a r t o t h a t t h a t y ou s e e 15

i n huma n d e n t i s t r y . I t wou l d i n c l ud e a m i r r o r , a n 16

e x p l o r e r , a nd a d e n t a l p r ob e , a nd t h e un i qu e t h i ng t h a t 17

we u s e i n ho r s e s i s c a l l e d a s p e c u l um . 18

And wha t doe s a spe cu l um do? 19 Q .

I t ' s a b i g h e a v y p i e c e o f me t a l t h a t op e n s t h e 20 A .

ho r s e ' s mou t h s o h e s a y s " aw " t h r oughou t t h e p r o c e du r e . 21

Tho s e a r e a l s o u s e d i n huma n d e n t i s t r y , t h e y ' r e j u s t 22

no t h i gh l y pub l i c i z e d . 23

Now you men t i oned t he ne ed f o r r e s t r a i n t o f t he 24 Q .

ho r s e ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 25

119

Ye s . 1 A .

Who gene r a l l y - - I t h i nk you men t i oned t he us e 2 Q .

o f s t oc k s , wh i ch wou l d be l i k e , wha t , a f r ame? Ex a c t l y 3

how i s s t oc k conduc t ed? 4

S t o c k s i s a me t a l a pp a r a t u s t h a t c on f i n e s t h e 5 A .

ho r s e t o a r e s t r i c t e d a r e a . 6

And a r e t he r e r ope s o r co l l a r s o r o t he r t oo l s 7 Q .

t ha t a r e us ed i n t he phy s i c a l r e s t r a i n t o f t he ho r s e? 8

Th e r e c ou l d b e , bu t g e n e r a l l y no t . Ge n e r a l l y 9 A .

y ou ' v e go t a f r on t doo r a nd a b a c k doo r a nd a s i d e 10

b a i l - ou t doo r . 11

Wha t k i nd o f t oo l s a r e us ed i n t he pe r f o r manc e 12 Q .

o f equ i ne den t i s t r y? 13

I t h i n k mo s t o f t h e t oo l s y ou s e e i n huma n 14 A .

d e n t i s t r y a r e a l s o u s e d . A t l e a s t I h a v e a l a r g e 15

s e l e c t i on o f huma n d e n t a l t oo l s . So , r e a l l y , t h e 16

qu e s t i on i s s p e c i f i c t o t h e d i s c i p l i n e y ou ' r e l oo k i ng 17

a t . So i n o r a l s u r g e r y y ou wou l d h a v e a who l e 18

a s s o r t me n t o f s o f t t i s s u e a nd h a r d t i s s u e , s u r g i c a l 19

i n s t r ume n t s . 20

I n r e s t o r a t i v e d e n t i s t r y , t h e r e y ou h a v e y ou r 21

a c t u a l i n s t r ume n t s f o r d e n t i s t r y bu t y ou a l s o g e t i n t o 22

ma t e r i a l s t h a t y ou h a v e t o u s e . I n o r t hodon t i c s we c a n 23

a pp l y b r a c e s t o a n i ma l s . So t h a t ' s on e b r a n c h o f 24

o r t hodon t i c s . Th e y a l s o h a v e e x t r a c t i on i n s t r ume n t s i n 25

120

t h e r e . 1

Sp e c i f i c t o t h e ho r s e , t h e f l o a t i ng i n 2

odon t op l a s t y i s c on s i d e r e d a n o r t hodon t i c p r o c e du r e . 3

So w i t h ho r s e s we do h a v e i n s t r ume n t s t h a t r emo v e 4

t oo t h , r emo v e d e n t a l t i s s u e . 5

Wha t a r e t hos e i ns t r umen t s l i k e? 6 Q .

You h a v e h a nd r a s p s t h a t h a v e b e e n u s e d f o r , 7 A .

s i n c e t h e 1200 s . And now w i t h i n t h e - - i t ' s no t r e a l l y 8

n ew t e c hno l og y , i t ' s c l a i me d t o b e n ew t e c hno l og y , we 9

h a v e powe r mo t o r - d r i v e n i n s t r ume n t s t h a t a r e u s e d . 10

Th a t t e c hno l og y h a s a c t u a l l y b e e n ou t t h e r e f o r a 11

hund r ed y e a r s . 12

Le t ' s t a l k a l i t t l e b i t abou t t he hand r a sps . 13 Q .

A r e t he s e i n t he na t u r e o f f i l e s , o r how cou l d you 14

de s c r i be t hos e t oo l s i n t e r ms o f some t h i ng t ha t 15

o r d i na r y peop l e wou l d be f am i l i a r w i t h? 16

T y p i c a l l y t h e y a r e s ho r t f i l e s t h a t a r e a bou t 17 A .

t h r e e i n c h e s l ong t h a t h a v e d i f f e r e n t g r i p v a r i e t i e s . 18

Now c a r b i d e s t e e l i s a popu l a r me t a l f o r t h e s e r a s p s . 19

And t h e y h a v e d i f f e r e n t a ng l e d o r d i f f e r e n t l e ng t h 20

h a nd l e s w i t h d i f f e r e n t a ng l e s s o t h a t y ou c a n c on t a c t 21

d i f f e r e n t p a r t s o f t h e d i f f e r e n t t e e t h . 22

Le t ' s t a l k a l i t t l e b i t abou t t he powe r t oo l s . 23 Q .

When you ' r e t a l k i ng abou t a powe r i ns t r umen t , how l a r ge 24

an i ns t r umen t a r e you usua l l y r e f e r r i ng t o? 25

121

T y p i c a l l y t h e y ' r e i n t h e 18 t o 20 - i n c h r a ng e s o 1 A .

t h e y c a n r e a c h t h e f u l l l e ng t h o f t h e mou t h . I n s ome 2

p a r t i c u l a r ho r s e s t h e y c ou l d b e a l i t t l e b i t l ong e r . 3

Bu t b a s i c a l l y i t ' s s ome , s ome g r i nd i ng h e a d t h a t ' s pu t 4

on s ome - - i t ' s d r i v e n b y s ome e ng i n e t h a t w i l l s p i n 5

t h e h e a d .6

Wou l d you s a y t ha t i t appe a r s mo r e o f a 7 Q .

r e s emb l anc e t o an e l e c t r i c d r i l l o r t o a sma l l hand 8

d r i l l such a t a d r eme l t ype? 9

I ' d s a y d r eme l s h a v e b e e n a d a p t e d , bu t t h e r e ' s 10 A .

a l s o r o t a r y d i s k bu r r s t h a t t u r n i n a c i r c l e . So 11

d r eme l s h a v e b e e n a d a p t e d t o do t h i s , e v e n t hough t h e 12

D r eme l c omp a n y h a s a d i s c l a i me r f o r u s e i n e qu i n e 13

d e n t i s t r y . 14

Ok a y . Wha t bene f i t s doe s t he us e o f hand - - 15 Q .

wha t bene f i t s a r e t he r e t o us i ng hand t oo l s a s oppos ed 16

t o powe r t oo l s? 17

I t ' s l e s s l a bo r i n t e n s i v e a nd t a k e s l e s s t i me . 18 A .

Ok a y . A l l r i gh t , I m i gh t ha v e go t t en t he 19 Q .

que s t i on ba c kwa r ds he r e . When you ' r e us i ng t he hand 20

t oo l s , hand f i l e s , wha t a r e t he adv an t age s o f do i ng a 21

pa r t i cu l a r ename l r educ t i on j ob w i t h a hand t oo l a s 22

oppos ed t o a powe r t oo l ? 23

I t ' s s a f e r . T a k e s a l o t o f - - t a k e s a l o t o f 24 A .

ph y s i c a l powe r t o a c t u a l l y we a r ou t a t oo t h w i t h a h a nd 25

122

f i l e . W i t h powe r t oo l s i t c a n b e don e b y a c h i l d i n a 1

ma t t e r o f s e c ond s . 2

Ok a y , wha t a r e t he d i s adv an t age s o f us i ng hand 3 Q .

t oo l s? 4

I t ' s l a bo r i n t e n s i v e ; i t t a k e s t i me . 5 A .

And t u r n i ng t o t he me chan i z ed equ i pmen t , t he 6 Q .

powe r t oo l s t ha t you r e f e r r ed t o , wha t adv an t age s ha v e 7

t he powe r t oo l s b r ough t t o t he pe r f o r manc e o f t he s e 8

o r t hodon t i c p r oc edu r e s? 9

Ag a i n , i t ' s t i me . T a k e s l e s s t i me a nd i t ' s 10 A .

l e s s ph y s i c a l l y d ema nd i ng . 11

Wha t a r e t he r i s k s? Wha t c an go w r ong when 12 Q .

peop l e a r e us i ng powe r t oo l s t o pe r f o r m t h i s? 13

Too t h d ama g e a nd d ama g e t o t h e s o f t t i s s u e s o f 14 A .

t h e mou t h a r e t h e mo s t c ommon . 15

I n wha t f o r m m i gh t t ha t damage t a k e? 16 Q .

To t h e t oo t h o r t h e mou t h? Th e l a c e r a t i on s t o 17 A .

t h e mou t h , b e t h a t t h e c h e e k s o r t h e g i ng i v a , t ongu e . 18

O r t o t h e t e e t h i t ' s t y p i c a l l y g e t t i ng i n t o l i v e d e n t a l 19

t i s s u e . C l a s s i c a l l y t h e d e n t i n e , a nd t h e n pu l p 20

e x po s u r e wou l d b e a c ommon , a c ommon c omp l i c a t i on . 21

Wha t abou t t he i s sue o f t he t he r ma l e f f e c t s o f 22 Q .

powe r equ i pmen t ? 23

So t h a t ' s a no t h e r r e po r t e d c omp l i c a t i on f r om 24 A .

u s i ng powe r t oo l s a nd l e a v i ng t h e g r i nd e r on t h e t oo t h 25

123

f o r e x t e nd e d p e r i od s o f t i me . 1

A r e t he r e any pub l i shed s t ud i e s t ha t add r e s s 2 Q .

t he powe r , t he r i s k s o f us i ng powe r t oo l s? 3

Ye s . I t h i n k Da c r e ' s go t a s t ud y . W i l s on f r om 4 A .

Au s t r a l i a d i d a s t ud y . And t h e r e i s on e t h a t wa s 5

pub l i s h e d t h r ough t h e g e n e r a l AVMA . I don ' t r ememb e r 6

t h e a u t ho r on t h a t on e . 7


Pe t i t i one r ' s Exh i b i t - - o r P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 14 . Do 9

you r e cogn i z e t ha t documen t ? 10

Ye a h . Th a t ' s I a n Ca d r e ' s s t ud y on " Mo t o r i s e d 11 A .

d e n t a l e qu i pme n t " u s e . And h i s c on c l u s i on i s t h a t 12

wh i l e t h e r e ' s a d v a n t a g e s i n mo t o r i z e d e qu i pme n t u s e , 13

t h e r e i s t h e r i s k o f o v e r g r i nd i ng , t h e r ma l d ama g e , a nd 14

pu l p e r e x po s u r e . 15

Ok a y . I ' d l i k e you t o l ook a t wha t I ' v e ma r k ed 16 Q .

a s P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 15 . Do you r e cogn i z e t ha t ? 17

Ye s . Ga r y W i l s on d i d a s t ud y on e v a l u a t i ng 18 A .

t h e r ma l d ama g e s e c ond a r y t o t h e u s e o f powe r 19

i n s t r ume n t a t i on . And h e a l s o c on c l ud e d t h a t t h e r ma l 20

d ama g e i s a r i s k , s i gn i f i c a n t r i s k f r om u s i ng t h e s e 21

t oo l s . 22

Thank you . I wou l d l i k e t o o f f e r i n t o e v i denc e 23 Q .

P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t s 14 and 15 . 24

( P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t s Nos . 14 and 15 we r e o f f e r ed25

124

i n t o e v i denc e . ) 1


THE COURT : P l a i n t i f f ' s 14 and 15 w i l l be adm i t t ed .3

( P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t s Nos . 14 and 15 we r e adm i t t ed4

i n t o e v i denc e . )5

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) How pe r v a s i v e i s t he us e 6 Q .

o f powe r equ i pmen t i n equ i ne den t i s t r y and t oo t h 7

f l oa t i ng t he s e da y s? 8

Tod a y i t ' s , t h e powe r t oo l s a r e u s e d mo r e 9 A .

c ommon l y t h a n t h e h a nd r a s p s . Ma n y p r a c t i t i on e r s don ' t 10

e v e n own t h e h a nd r a s p s a n ymo r e . 11

Ov e r wha t t i me pe r i od ha s t h i s change t a k en - - 12 Q .

o r how doe s t h i s compa r e t o t he p r a c t i c e - - ov e r wha t 13

t i me pe r i od ha s t h i s us e o f powe r t oo l s be come common 14

i n t he p r o f e s s i on? 15

I t b e c ame popu l a r i n t h e 90 s . So i n t h e 1990 s 16 A .

i s wh e n i t r e a l l y b e c ame popu l a r , a nd i t ' s t a k e n o v e r , 17

s o w i t h i n t h e l a s t 20 y e a r s . 18

So i t ' s l e s s t han 20 y e a r s , t hen , t ha t powe r 19 Q .

t oo l s ha v e be en i n common us e ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ?20

I n c ommon u s e . Bu t t h e y we r e u s e d b e f o r e Wo r l d 21 A .

Wa r I I , a nd t h e y we r e u s e d a t t h e t u r n o f t h e l a s t 22

c e n t u r y . 23

How ha s t he de v e l opmen t o f t he s e t oo l s changed 24 Q .

t he p r a c t i c e o f den t i s t r y? 25

125

I t ' s - - t h e r e ' s mo r e p e op l e p e r f o r m i ng e qu i n e 1 A .

d e n t i s t r y now du e t o t h e a v a i l a b i l i t y o f t oo l s a nd t h e 2

e a s e o f t he wo r k . 3

Wha t e f f e c t on t he ov e r a l l r i s k o f ha r m ha s t he 4 Q .

w i de sp r e ad adop t i on o f powe r t oo l s i nvo l v ed? 5

I b e l i e v e we ' r e s e e i ng mo r e i a t r og e n i c d ama g e 6 A .

t o ho r s e s . I t ' s b e c om i ng a c ommon c omp l i c a t i on o f 7


Ba s ed on t he f a c t t ha t mos t o f t h i s ha s 9 Q .

oc cu r r ed du r i ng t he l a s t 20 y e a r s , how much do we know 10

abou t t he l ong - r ange e f f e c t o f t he w i de sp r e ad us e o f 11

powe r t oo l s on t he den t a l he a l t h o f ho r s e s? 12

I don ' t k now t h a t t h a t h a s b e e n do c ume n t e d , t h e 13 A .

l ong - r a ng e e f f e c t . 14

Wha t ' s t he r o l e o f r ad i og r aphy i n t he cu r r en t 15 Q .

s t anda r d o f c a r e? 16

We l l , w i t h l i k e a n y o t h e r d i s c i p l i n e , l i k e 17 A .

d e n t i s t r y i n o t h e r s p e c i e s , t h e on l y t h i ng y ou c a n 18

e v a l u a t e i n t h e o r a l c a v i t y i s t h e c r own o f t h e t oo t h 19

o r t h e c l i n i c a l c r own o f t h e ho r s e . So i n y ou r ho r s e , 20

mo s t o f t h e t oo t h i s und e r t h e gum l i n e a nd c a nno t b e 21

e x am i n e d w i t hou t a n X - r a y . So r a d i og r a ph y i s c r i t i c a l 22

t o t h e p e r f o r ma n c e o f e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y . 23

How o f t en do you us e r ad i og r aphy i n you r 24 Q .

p r a c t i c e? Wha t pe r c en t age o f t he c a s e s wou l d you s a y 25

126

i t ' s app r op r i a t e? 1

I ' d s a y t h a t 33 p e r c e n t o f my i n i t i a l 2 A .

p r e s e n t a t i on s i nd i c a t e r a d i og r a ph y , a bou t a t h i r d o f 3

t h em , a nd t h a t ' s i n i t i a l p r e s e n t a t i on s o I ' m e x c l ud i ng 4

a n y r e f e r r a l p r o c e du r e i n t h a t . 5

Wha t a r e t he r i s k s o f do i ng , o f a t t emp t i ng t o 6 Q .

pe r f o r m p r oc edu r e s on t he t e e t h o f ho r s e s w i t hou t us i ng 7

X - r a y t e chno l ogy? 8

I t h i n k t h e ma j o r r i s k i s m i s d i a gno s i ng o r a l 9 A .

c ond i t i on s , b e c a u s e a l l y ou c a n e x am i n e i s t h e c l i n i c a l 10

c r own o f t h e t oo t h . 11

Wha t r i s k s doe s t he us e o f t he t e chno l ogy 12 Q .

p r e s en t ? 13

Th e s t a nd a r d r i s k s , t h a t r a d i o l og y r i s k s . 14 A .

How much t r a i n i ng i n t he us e o f t h i s t e chno l ogy 15 Q .

do you r e c e i v e i n t he cou r s e o f v e t e r i na r y med i c a l 16

educ a t i on? 17

I k now we h a v e a d i d a c t i c l e c t u r e s e r i e s , a nd 18 A .

t h a t ' s f o l l owe d b y , t h r oughou t y ou r c l i n i c a l r o t a t i on s .19

Le t ' s t a l k abou t e x t r a c t i ons . Wha t k i nd o f 20 Q .

e x t r a c t i ons do you encoun t e r i n t he cou r s e o f wo r k i ng 21

on ho r s e t e e t h? 22

Ca n y ou r e s t a t e t h e qu e s t i on . I me a n , a n y 23 A .

t oo t h c ou l d - - t h e r e c ou l d b e a n i nd i c a t i on t o e x t r a c t 24

a n y t oo t h . 25

127

Obv i ous l y i f a t oo t h i s d i s e a s ed o r damaged , 1 Q .

t ha t m i gh t pos e an e x t r a c t i on i s sue ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 2

Ye s .3 A .

A r e t he r e any k i nds o f t e e t h t ha t a r e r ou t i ne l y 4 Q .

e x t r a c t ed? 5

I ' d s a y t h e wo l f t e e t h a r e mo s t c ommon l y , 6 A .

r ou t i n e l y e x t r a c t e d .7

And cou l d you e xp l a i n wha t wo l f t e e t h a r e . 8 Q .

I t ' s t h e v e s t i g i a l f i r s t p r emo l a r i n t h e ho r s e . 9 A .

I t ' s a sma l l t oo t h t h a t s i t s i n f r on t o f t h e f i r s t 10

c h e e k t oo t h , a nd e a c h t h e c h e e k t e e t h a r c a d e s . So i t ' s 11

a sma l l r emn a n t o f a t oo t h t h a t on c e wa s t hough t t o b e 12

a f un c t i on a l c h e e k t oo t h . 13

How comp l i c a t ed i s e x t r a c t i on o f a wo l f t oo t h? 14 Q .

I t c ou l d b e v e r y m i no r , i t c ou l d b e v e r y 15 A .

c omp l i c a t e d . 16

I s t he r e a d i s t i nc t i on be t we en s i mp l e and 17 Q .

su r g i c a l e x t r a c t i on? 18

Th e v e t e r i n a r y o r d e n t a l d e f i n i t i on o f a s i mp l e 19 A .

e x t r a c t i on i s a n y e x t r a c t i on t h a t ' s p e r f o r me d t h a t y ou 20

do no t s e c t i on t h e t oo t h , o r y ou do no t t a k e t h e t oo t h 21

ou t t h r ough a s u r g i c a l a pp r o a c h . So s i mp l e i s a 22

m i s nome r . 23

Why i s i t a m i snome r ?24 Q .

Be c a u s e a s i mp l e t oo t h , I ' v e don e a s i mp l e 25 A .

128

c h e e k t oo t h e x t r a c t i on t h a t t oo k me s e v e n a nd a h a l f 1

hou r s t o g e t t h e t oo t h ou t , a nd d i d h a v e c omp l i c a t i on s . 2

Wha t pos s i b l e comp l i c a t i ons c an ensue f r om 3 Q .

r emov a l o f a t oo t h? 4

I n t h e ho r s e t h e mo s t c ommon on e wou l d b e a 5 A .

bon e y s e qu e s t r um t h a t y ou h a v e t o d e a l w i t h 6

po s t - op e r a t i v e l y . Bu t I me a n , t h e p a t i e n t h a s t o b e 7

a dd r e s s e d f r om , d e p e nd i ng on wh a t t h e p r e s e n t i ng r e a s on 8

f o r t h e t oo t h n e e d i ng t o b e e x t r a c t e d . Be c a u s e 9

i n f e c t i on , y ou ' r e go i ng t o h a v e t o d e a l w i t h t h e - - 10

y ou ' l l h a v e t o d e a l w i t h po s s i b i l i t y o f s e p t i c em i a 11

s e c ond a r y t o t h a t , a nd t h a t wa s t h e c a s e w i t h t h e 12

c a r d i omy op a t h i e s t h a t go t p r e s e n t e d . So y ou ' d a l s o 13

h a v e t o d e a l w i t h p a i n ma n a g eme n t po s t - op e r a t i v e l y . So 14

t h e r e ' s a numb e r o f c omp l i c a t i on s t h a t c a n , c a n o c c u r 15

s e c ond a r y . 16

I s t he r e any k i nd o f e x t r a c t i on wh i ch i n you r 17 Q .

v i ew wou l d no t cons t i t u t e t he p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y 18

med i c i ne? 19

No . 20 A .

I n you r v i ew a r e t he r e any c i r cums t anc e s unde r 21 Q .

wh i ch a pe r son who i s no t a v e t e r i na r i an wou l d o r 22

shou l d a t t emp t t o e x t r a c t a ho r s e t oo t h? 23

No . 24 A .

Ha v e you e v e r s e en any e v i denc e t ha t 25 Q .

129

non - v e t e r i na r y p r a c t i t i one r s do e x t r a c t i ons? 1

Ye s . 2 A .

And wha t e v i denc e i s t ha t t ha t you ' v e s e en? 3 Q .

I ' v e s e e n - - 4 A .

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , I ' m go i ng t o ob j e c t . Th e 5

que s t i on i s no t whe t he r some non - v e t e r i na r i ans do 6

e x t r a c t i ons , t he que s t i on i s whe t he r any o f t he s e 7

e x t r a c t i ons c an be a t t r i bu t ed t o t he de f endan t . We ' v e 8

i ndu l ged a w i d e r ange o f conv e r s a t i on abou t gene r a l 9

den t i s t r y . We ' r e ge t t i ng v e r y f a r awa y f r om t he t op i c 10

o f f l oa t i ng , so t ha t ' s my ob j e c t i on . 11

MR . FROWNFELTER : Le t me r eph r a s e t he que s t i on i n a 12

wa y t ha t I t h i nk m i gh t add r e s s t he ob j e c t i on . 13

THE COURT : How much l onge r do you t h i nk we ' r e 14

go i ng t o be? I wa s go i ng t o b r e a k be f o r e t he 15

c r os s - e x am i n a t i on , bu t i f i t ' s go i ng t o be qu i t e a b i t 16

l onge r we m i gh t t a k e a b r e a k p r e t t y qu i c k . 17

MR . FROWNFELTER : The p r ob l em i s , Doc t o r Ga l l owa y 18

ha s a f l i gh t ou t t ha t I ne ed - - t ha t we ne ed t o ge t h i m 19

done by , s a y , t h r e e o ' c l oc k . And I ha v e , I ha v e a 20

cons i de r ab l e amoun t o f e x am i n a t i on and I t h i nk t ha t 21

M r . Ro l a nd i s go i ng t o h a v e a c on s i d e r a b l e amoun t o f 22

e x am i na t i on t oo . 23

I f we b r e a k I wou l d r eque s t t ha t t he b r e a k be sho r t 24

be c aus e I ' m b e com i ng conc e r ned abou t whe t he r we ha v e 25

130

t i me t o ge t Doc t o r Ga l l owa y ' s t e s t i mony i n du r i ng t he 1

t i me he ha s a v a i l ab l e . 2

THE COURT : Ok a y . We c an t a k e a ha l f hou r , j us t 3

ma k e a qu i c k l unch , we ne ed t o ge t some t h i ng done 4

be c aus e t he cou r t r epo r t e r and t he c l e r k s , e v e r ybody 5

ne eds t o t a k e a b r e a k . 6

So we ' l l p i c k ou t a ha l f hou r when you wan t t o do 7

i t . I ' l l sus t a i n t he ob j e c t i on i f you wan t t o r e s t a t e 8

you r que s t i on , and t hen we c an t a k e a b r e a k whene v e r 9

you w i sh . A t a po i n t you m i gh t t e l l me when i t ' s a 10

good po i n t , bu t we ' r e go i ng t o do a ha l f hou r , and 11

we ' r e go i ng t o do i t i n t he ne x t 15 m i nu t e s . So i f 12

you ' r e a t a good po i n t t o s t op , you m i gh t t e l l me , 13

M r . F r own f e l t e r , and we ' l l do t ha t . 14

MR . FROWNFELTER : We l l f r ank l y , t h i s i s a s good a 15

po i n t a s I ha v e , so . . . 16

THE COURT : I f you wan t t o r e s t a t e you r que s t i on so 17

you don ' t l os e you r t r a i n o f t hough t on t ha t ? I 18

wou l dn ' t m i nd do i ng t ha t , j us t so we r emembe r whe r e we 19

we r e . 20

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) Ha v e you - - you s t a t ed 21 Q .

wha t you r de f i n i t i on o f t oo t h f l oa t i ng i s ; i s t ha t 22

co r r e c t ? 23

Th a t ' s c o r r e c t . I ' v e s t a t e d t h e v e t e r i n a r y 24 A .

p r o f e s s i on a l d e f i n i t i on . 25

131

I n you r p r o f e s s i ona l c apa c i t y ha v e you e v e r 1 Q .

be en g i v en o r had oc c a s i on t o r e spond t o a de f i n i t i on 2

o f t oo t h f l oa t i ng a s g i v en by a non - v e t e r i na r y sou r c e? 3

Ye s . 4 A .

And wha t i s t ha t ? How d i d you ge t t ha t 5 Q .

de f i n i t i on? 6

I wa s a n e x p e r t w i t n e s s i n t h e c a s e s i n T e x a s 7 A .

wh e r e t h e Bo a r d a g a i n s t l a y d e n t i s t s i n T e x a s . And 8

t h r ough t h e s e v e r a l do c ume n t s t h e y p r e s e n t e d , t h e i r 9

c ommon l y a c c e p t e d d e f i n i t i on o f t oo t h f l o a t i ng . 10

" The y " be i ng - - you ' r e t a l k i ng abou t t he 11 Q .

de f endan t s? 12

Th e d e f e nd a n t s . 13 A .

And t he de f endan t s we r e? 14 Q .

Ra nd y Ry a n wa s on e , Ca r l Be t t s wa s on e , a l a d y 15 A .

n ame d Co r b i n wa s on e , a nd I c a n ' t r ememb e r t h e f ou r t h . 16

Wha t wa s i n t he de f i n i t i on o f t oo t h f l oa t i ng 17 Q .

t ha t you we r e g i v en i n t he Te x a s c a s e? 18

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , I ' m go i ng t o ob j e c t . The 19

de f endan t s i n t h i s c a s e ha v e made c l e a r t he de f i n i t i on 20

o f f l oa t i ng t ha t t he y a r e us i ng , so wha t de f i n i t i on 21

someone e l s e m i gh t us e a r e i r r e l e v an t t o t h i s c a s e . 22

MR . FROWNFELTER : Qu i t e t he con t r a r y . We i n t end t o 23

show t ha t t oo t h f l oa t i ng i s a v e r y v ague gene r i c t e r m 24

wh i ch t he de f endan t s us e one wa y when i t su i t s t he i r 25

132

pu r pos e . The doc t o r ' s t e s t i mony w i l l e s t ab l i sh t ha t 1

o t he r t oo t h f l oa t e r s i n o t he r s i t ua t i ons ha v e us ed a 2

much b r oade r de f i n i t i on . And ou r con t en t i on i s t ha t 3

t he , t ha t t he de f endan t s a r e s e e k i ng t o ha v e ou r l aw 4

de c l a r ed uncons t i t u t i ona l a s app l i ed t o a d i s c i p l i ne 5

wh i ch i s no t we l l de f i ned and wh i ch i s , i n f a c t , ha s 6

no - - wh i ch i s us ed i n c i r cums t anc e s f a r be yond t he 7

c l i n i c a l me an i ng . Tha t ha s a s i gn i f i c an t i mp l i c a t i on 8

f o r t he e f f e c t s o f t he de c l a r a t i on t he de f endan t s a r e 9

s e e k i ng . 10

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , t he p l a i n t i f f s a r e t r y i ng 11

t o h i j a c k ou r a r gumen t . We ' v e made c l e a r wha t ou r 12

unde r s t and i ng o f f l oa t i ng i s . We ha v e no t wa v e r ed f r om 13

i t ; we ha v e no t adop t ed someone e l s e ' s de f i n i t i on . The 14

pe t i t i one r shou l d no t be pe r m i t t ed t o i ns i nua t e t ha t we 15

me an some t h i ng o t he r t han wha t we ha v e v e r y c l e a r l y 16

s a i d . 17

THE COURT : I gue s s my que s t i on wou l d be , i s t he 18

de f i n i t i on t ha t he m i gh t p r ov i de , i s t ha t go i ng t o be , 19

wa s t ha t go i ng t o i nc l ude some o f t he p r a c t i c e s t ha t 20

Ms . G r a y had a l l eged t o ha v e done? 21

MR . FROWNFELTER : I t ' s no t add r e s s i ng Ms . G r a y ' s 22

conduc t . Howe v e r , Ms . G r a y i s a pa r t o f an o r gan i z ed 23

mov emen t wh i ch ha s spok en o f t oo t h f l oa t i ng a s be i ng a 24

v e r y na r r ow con t a i ned p r o j e c t when i t su i t s i t s 25

133

pu r pos e s and i n ano t he r con t e x t ha v e e xpanded t ha t 1

de f i n i t i on i n t o a much b r oade r c a t ego r y wh i ch i nc l ude s 2

t h i ngs l i k e e x t r a c t i ons and o t he r su r g i c a l ope r a t i ons 3

t ha t a r e f a r be yond t he de f i n i t i on t ha t t he de f endan t s 4

a r e us i ng . 5

THE COURT : I ' l l sus t a i n t he ob j e c t i on . 6

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) You men t i oned t ha t t oo t h 7 Q .

f l oa t i ng i s a - - i s , i n t e r ms o f den t i s t r y i s 8

cha r a c t e r i z ed a s pa r t o f den t a l o r t hodon t i c s ; i s t ha t 9

co r r e c t ? 10

Th a t ' s c o r r e c t . 11 A .

How many d i f f e r en t o r t hodon t i c p r oc edu r e s a r e 12 Q .

t he r e? 13

Nume r ou s . 14 A .

Do you cons i de r t oo t h f l oa t i ng t o be a r ou t i ne 15 Q .

p r oc edu r e? 16

Rou t i n e ? Ca n y ou d e f i n e r ou t i n e ? I t ' s a 17 A .

t r e a t me n t , I c on s i d e r i t , a nd t r e a t me n t s a r e p e r f o r me d 18

wh e n i nd i c a t e d . So I don ' t u s e t h e wo r d r ou t i n e . 19

I s t he r e a med i c a l ba s i s f o r t he con t en t i on 20 Q .

t ha t a l l ho r s e s shou l d ha v e t he i r t e e t h f l oa t ed on a 21

r egu l a r c y c l i c a l ba s i s? 22

No . 23 A .

I s t he r e any s c i en t i f i c l i t e r a t u r e on t he 24 Q .

bene f i t s o f t oo t h f l oa t i ng? 25

134

On t h e b e n e f i t s ?1 A .

Ye s . 2 Q .

Th e r e a r e s e v e r a l s t ud i e s t h a t h a v e l oo k e d i n t o 3 A .

t h e b e n e f i t s . I don ' t t h i n k t h e y ' v e e s t a b l i s h e d a n y 4

b e n e f i t s , s c i e n t i f i c a l l y , i n t h e s c i e n t i f i c l i t e r a t u r e . 5

So Ca r ma l t d i d a s e r i e s on l oo k i ng a t p e r f o r ma n c e o f 6

f l o a t i ng , how f l o a t i ng a f f e c t s p e r f o r ma n c e . He a l s o 7

l oo k e d a t how f l o a t i ng a f f e c t s d i f f e r e n t p a r ame t e r s i n 8

ma s t i c a t i on a nd c ou l d f i nd no b e n e f i t i n a n y o f t h e 9

s t ud i e s h e d i d .10

Ok a y , j us t ba c k t r a c k i ng a b i t , I ' d l i k e t o show 11 Q .

you wha t I ' v e ma r k ed a s P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 16 . Do you 12

r e cogn i z e t h i s documen t ? 13

Th i s i s h e a t p r odu c t i on du r i ng powe r r e du c t i on 14 A .

o f t h e e n ame l o f e qu i n e ma nd i bu l a r c h e e k t e e t h . Th i s 15

i s a no t h e r do c ume n t s t ud y t h a t do c ume n t s t h e r e ' s a 16

po t e n t i a l f o r t h e r ma l d ama g e . Se c ond a r y t o t h a t 17

qu a n t i f i e d i t . So i t ' s a r i s k o f t oo t h f l o a t i ng .18

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ' d l i k e o f f e r P l a i n t i f f ' s 19

Exh i b i t 16 i n t o e v i denc e . 20


e v i denc e . ) 22

THE COURT : Any ob j e c t i on? 23


THE COURT : Same w i l l be adm i t t ed .25

135


e v i denc e . ) 2

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER) Ok a y , I ' d l i k e t o show 3 Q .

you wha t I ' v e ma r k ed a s P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 17 . 4

Th i s i s on e o f J ame s Ca r ma l t ' s s t ud i e s , a nd 5 A .

h e r e h e ' s c omp a r i ng t oo t h f l o a t i ng t o r o s t r o c a ud a l 6

mob i l i t y o f t h e ma nd i b l e o f t h e ho r s e . And t h e 7

s i gn i f i c a n c e o f t h i s i s , t h e r e ' s b e e n a c l a i m t h a t i f 8

y ou i n c r e a s e t h e r o s t r o c a ud a l mob i l i t y i n t h e ho r s e a s 9

a r e s u l t o f t oo t h f l o a t i ng t h a t y ou i n c r e a s e t h e 10

ho r s e ' s p e r f o r ma n c e . And h e d i d s how t h a t i t i n c r e a s e d 11

r o s t r o c a ud a l mob i l i t y bu t i t d i dn ' t s how a n y 12

s i gn i f i c a n c e i n t h a t . 13

Thank you . I f you ' d l ook a t wha t I ' v e ma r k ed 14 Q .

a s Pe t i t i one r ' s Exh i b i t 18 ; wha t i s t ha t ? 15

Th e " E f f e c t s o f d e n t a l f l o a t i ng on we i gh t g a i n , 16 A .

bod y c ond i t i on s c o r e , f e e d d i g e s t i b i l i t y a nd f e c a l 17

p a r t i c l e s i z e i n p r e gn a n t ma r e s . " So h e r e h e wa s do i ng 18

s t ud i e s f l o a t i ng t e e t h a nd e v a l u a t i ng t ho s e p a r ame t e r s 19

a nd d i d no t f i nd s i gn i f i c a n c e i n t ho s e p a r ame t e r s . 20

I ' d l i k e you t o l ook a t wha t we ' v e ma r k ed a s 21 Q .

Pe t i t i one r ' s Exh i b i t 19 . Do you r e cogn i z e t ha t ? 22

Ye s , t h i s on e i s t h e - - s o t h e r e l e v a n c e o f 23 A .

t h i s p a p e r i s , t h e r e ' s a , t h e r e ' s a t h e o r y o f a n i d e a l 24

mou t h c on f i r ma t i on i n t h e ho r s e , e v e r y ho r s e s hou l d 25

136

h a v e a n i d e a l mou t h c on f i r ma t i on . And s o h e e v a l u a t e d 1

t h e o c c l u s a l a ng l e , t h a t i d e a l mou t h c on f i r ma t i on , t o 2

s i m i l a r d i g e s t i b i l i t y p a r ame t e r s a nd d i d no t f i nd a 3

s i gn i f i c a n t a s s o c i a t i on . 4

Ok a y . And I ' d l i k e you t o l ook a t wha t ' s 5 Q .

ma r k ed a s Pe t i t i one r ' s Exh i b i t 20 . Do you r e cogn i z e 6

t ha t ? 7

Th i s i s , a g a i n , r e l a t e s - - we l l h e r e h e ' s 8 A .

l oo k i ng a t t h e r e l a t i on s h i p b e t we e n t h e o c c l u s a l 9

mo r pho l og y a nd t h e s e d i g e s t i b i l i t y p a r ame t e r s . And 10

a g a i n , i t d i d no t p r o v i d e a n a s s o c i a t i on b e t we e n t ho s e 11

c h e e k t e e t h p a r ame t e r s a nd d i g e s t i b i l i t y p a r ame t e r s .12

THE COURT : I ' d l i k e t o o f f e r Exh i b i t 17 t h r ough 20 13

i n t o e v i denc e . 14

( P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t s Nos . 17 t h r ough 20 we r e15

o f f e r ed i n t o e v i denc e . ) 16

MR . ROLAND : We ob j e c t , You r Hono r , on t he g r ounds 17

o f r e l e v anc e . I f t he S t a t e i s a s s e r t i ng an i n t e r e s t i n 18

p r o t e c t i ng c i t i z ens aga i ns t unus e f u l p r oc edu r e s , t hen 19

t he s e m i gh t be r e l e v an t . We don ' t unde r s t and t ha t t o 20

be t he S t a t e ' s a r gumen t . 21

To t he con t r a r y , t he S t a t e ' s a r gumen t i s t ha t t he 22

l i c ens i ng r e s t r i c t i ons a r e ne c e s s a r y t o gua r d t he 23

he a l t h and s a f e t y o f t he commun i t y . The s e pape r s do 24

no t h i ng t o con t r i bu t e t o t ha t a r gumen t , and t he r e f o r e 25

137

t he y shou l d no t be adm i t t ed i n t o e v i denc e .1

MR . FROWNFELTER : Wha t t he s e pape r s e s t ab l i sh i s 2

t ha t t oo t h f l oa t i ng , wh i ch i s he a v i l y ma r k e t ed by l a y 3

equ i ne den t i s t s a s a r egu l a r ne c e s s a r y c y c l i c a l 4

p r oc edu r e , i t i s a l wa y s bene f i c i a l t o ho r s e s , ma y no t 5

be v a l i d . The med i c a l s c i en t i f i c e v i denc e sugge s t s 6

t ha t t he u t i l i t y o f t h i s p r oc edu r e i s cons i de r ab l y l e s s 7

t han p r e v i ous l y be l i e v ed . 8

Tha t me ans , i n a r i s k bene f i t ana l y s i s , t he bene f i t 9

o f t he p r oc edu r e , we ' v e a l r e ady go t t e s t i mony t ha t 10

t he r e a r e r i s k s a s soc i a t ed w i t h t he p r oc edu r e . When 11

you r educ e t he bene f i t s i n a r i s k bene f i t ana l y s i s , t he 12

r i s k s don ' t change bu t t he r a t i o o f r i s k t o bene f i t 13

doe s . 14

The r e f o r e , t he s e a r t i c l e s suppo r t t he S t a t e ' s 15

pos i t i on t ha t one ne eds t o ha v e s c i en t i f i c v e t e r i na r y 16

ba c kg r ound i n o r de r t o unde r s t and t he s i gn i f i c anc e and 17

t he i mpo r t anc e and t he , t he r i s k bene f i t o f pe r f o r m i ng 18

i n t r us i v e p r oc edu r e s on a ho r s e ' s t e e t h , and t he r e f o r e 19

t he y a r e r e l e v an t . 20

MR . ROLAND : Aga i n , You r Hono r , f r om ou r 21

pe r spe c t i v e , i f t he y ' r e a r gu i ng t ha t t h i s r egu l a t i on i s 22

a consume r p r o t e c t i on r egu l a t i on , t hen by a l l me ans , 23

t he y shou l d be adm i t t ed . I t ' s no t ou r unde r s t and i ng o f 24

wha t t he S t a t e ha s p r e v i ous l y a r gued , and we wou l d 25

138

a s s e r t t ha t consume r p r o t e c t i on i s no t a v a l i d S t a t e 1

i n t e r e s t . 2

THE COURT : I ' l l ov e r r u l e t he ob j e c t i on and a l l ow 3

t hem i n t o e v i denc e .4


adm i t t ed i n t o e v i denc e . )6

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER) Ha s t h i s r e s e a r ch 7 Q .

i n f l uenc ed you r r e commenda t i ons i n you r own p r a c t i c e? 8

S i gn i f i c a n t l y . 9 A .

And wha t i s t he i mpa c t o f t ha t r e s e a r ch? 10 Q .

I t h i n k o v e r t h e p a s t t e n y e a r s t h a t we h a v e , 11 A .

we ' v e c h a ng e d p r o f e s s i on a l p r a c t i c e o f e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y 12

a nd don ' t do ma n y o f t h e p r o c e du r e s t h a t we d i d t e n 13

y e a r s a go , b a s e d on t h e c u r r e n t l i t e r a t u r e . 14

I s t he r e a r i s k bene f i t ana l y s i s i nvo l v ed i n 15 Q .

t he de t e r m i na t i on o f whe t he r t o do any pa r t i cu l a r 16

p r oc edu r e? 17

I wou l d s a y t h e r i s k b e n e f i t a n a l y s i s i s b a s e d 18 A .

on t h e d i a gno s i s . So y ou h a v e t o d e t e r m i n e wh a t t h e 19

c a u s e o f a n y p r ob l em i s ; b a s e d on t h a t d i a gno s i s y ou 20

t r e a t i t . And s o i f t h e , i f t h e b e n e f i t o f t h e 21

t r e a t me n t b a s e d on t h e d i a gno s i s i s i nd i c a t e d , t h e n y ou 22

wou l d p e r f o r m a p r o c e du r e ; i f no t y ou wou l d no t . 23

I f t he - - suppos e t he de v e l op i ng r e s e a r ch t ha t 24 Q .

you r e v i ew , s c i en t i f i c r e s e a r ch i nd i c a t e s t ha t t he 25

139

bene f i t o f a p r oc edu r e i s l e s s t han p r e v i ous l y 1

be l i e v ed , wha t i mpa c t on you r r e commenda t i ons a s t o 2

whe t he r t ha t p r oc edu r e shou l d be pe r f o r med wou l d t ha t 3

ha v e? 4

F r om a me d i c a l s t a ndpo i n t t h e n y ou ' d h a v e t o 5 A .

e v a l u a t e i t ; i s t h e r e a n y b e n e f i t t o i t ? Th e r e ' s 6

ob v i ou s l y a r i s k b e c a u s e t h e s e a r e a l l i r r e v e r s i b l e 7

p r o c e du r e s t h a t we ' r e d e s c r i b i ng . On c e y ou r a s p a 8

t oo t h , y ou c a n ' t pu t t h e t oo t h b a c k on .9

MR . FROWNFELTER : You r Hono r , I ' d sugge s t t ha t i f 10

you we r e go i ng t o b r e a k , t h i s wou l d be a good p l a c e t o 11

do i t . 12

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t , we ' l l r e c e s s un t i l one 13

o ' c l oc k .14

( Lunch Re c e s s f r om 12 : 31 t o 1 : 09 p . m . )15

THE COURT : M r . F r own f e l t e r , you ma y con t i nue w i t h 16

you r e x am i n a t i on o f M r . Ga l l owa y .17

18

CONT I NUED D I RECT EXAM I NAT I ON19

BY FROWNFELTER : 20

Doc t o r Ga l l owa y , i n you r own p r a c t i c e ha v e you 21 Q .

encoun t e r ed any i ns t anc e s whe r e t he r e we r e p r ob l ems 22

a r i s i ng f r om t he f l oa t i ng o f t e e t h i n ho r s e s? 23

Ye s . 24 A .

Can you r e c a l l some pa r t i cu l a r i nc i den t s o f 25 Q .

140

t ha t ? 1

Ca s e s ? Ye s . 2 A .

Ye s . 3 Q .

A c a s e wh e r e i n c i s o r s we r e r e du c e d c a u s i ng a 4 A .

pu l p i t i s . 5

Do you r e c a l l i n pa r t i cu l a r a , t he p r e s en t a t i on 6 Q .

o f a ho r s e by t he name o f B r e e z e? 7

Th a t wou l d b e t h a t ho r s e . 8 A .

Ok a y . Wha t , when B r e e z e wa s - - f o r wha t 9 Q .

pu r pos e wa s B r e e z e b r ough t i n , o r we r e you a s k ed t o 10

l ook a t B r e e z e? 11

I t wa s a r ou t i n e e x am i n a t i on o f t h e ho r s e f o r , 12 A .

f o r j u s t r ou t i n e d e n t a l c a r e , a nd t h e ho r s e h a d 13

pu l p i t i s s e c ond a r y t o p r e v i ou s wo r k t h a t h a d b e e n don e . 14

Wha t i n f o r ma t i on we r e you , d i d you r e c e i v e f r om 15 Q .

t he pa t i en t a s t o t he h i s t o r y o f t ha t ho r s e? 16

Th a t h e ' d b e e n , t h a t h e h a d b e e n f l o a t e d b y a 17 A .

c e r t i f i e d - - 18

MR . ROLAND : Ob j e c t i on , You r Hono r , t he r e spons e 19

c a l l s f o r he a r s a y . 20

MR . FROWNFELTER : You r Hono r , i t ' s a 21

we l l - r e cogn i z ed e x c ep t i on t o t he he a r s a y r u l e t ha t 22

s t a t emen t s made by a pa t i en t f o r pu r pos e s o f t r e a t men t 23

t o a t r e a t i ng phy s i c i an a r e an e x c ep t i on , e s t ab l i shed 24

e x c ep t i on t o t he he a r s a y r u l e . 25

141

THE COURT : Ov e r r u l ed . You ma y p r oc e ed . 1

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) Ok a y . The que s t i on t hen 2 Q .

wa s , wha t wa s t he i n f o r ma t i on i n t e r ms o f t he h i s t o r y 3

o f t he ho r s e? 4

He h a d b e e n p r e v i ou s l y t r e a t e d b y a l a y t oo t h 5 A .

f l o a t e r who h a d b e e n t r a i n e d a t t h e Ac a d emy o f Equ i n e 6

Den t i s t r y .7

We r e you g i v en any i n f o r ma t i on a s t o how r e c en t 8 Q .

o r t he t i me f ame o f t h i s t r e a t men t ? 9

I don ' t r ememb e r s p e c i f i c a l l y ; i t wa s w i t h i n 10 A .

t h e l a s t y e a r . 11

A l l r i gh t . I ' d l i k e t o show you wha t I ha v e 12 Q .

ma r k ed a s P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 21 . Do you r e cogn i z e 13


Ye s , i t ' s a p i c t u r e I t oo k o f on e o f t h e 15 A .

ma x i l l a r y c a n i n e t e e t h . 16

When you l ook a t t ha t documen t wha t do you , 17 Q .

wha t do you s e e , wha t doe s t ha t show you? 18

Th e t oo t h wa s - - i t ' s t h e c a n i n e t oo t h , a nd i t 19 A .

wa s s e v e r e l y , t h e c r own wa s s e v e r e l y r e du c e d t o t h e 20

g i ng i v a l ma r g i n . Th a t ' s a p r o c e du r e t h a t ' s c ommon l y 21

don e . Th e i nd i c a t i on s , t h e r e i s no me d i c a l i nd i c a t i on 22

f o r t h a t p r o c e du r e . Th e i nd i c a t i on b y t oo t h f l o a t e r s 23

i s t o p r o t e c t t h e h a nd l e r o r t h e d e n t i s t p e r f o r m i ng t h e 24

p r o c e du r e s . 25

142

Wha t shou l d t ha t t oo t h l ook l i k e? 1 Q .

Th a t s hou l d b e a f u l l c a n i n e t oo t h . 2 A .

Wha t adv e r s e e f f e c t s on - - o r wha t e f f e c t s on 3 Q .

t he ho r s e ' s he a l t h i s a r educ t i on i n t he t oo t h t o t ha t 4

l e v e l l i k e l y t o c aus e? 5

I t k i l l s t h e t oo t h . So e i t h e r , e i t h e r t h e 6 A .

t oo t h d i e s a nd s e a l s o f f o r t h e t oo t h g e t s pu l p i t i s a nd 7

g e t s i n f e c t e d . So t ho s e a r e t h e t wo s e qu e l a . 8

Wha t i s t he do t i n t he c en t e r o f t ha t t oo t h i n 9 Q .

t he p i c t u r e? 10

Th a t wou l d b e t h e pu l p . I t ' s a c t u a l l y 11 A .

s e c ond a r y d e n t i n e c o v e r i ng t h e pu l p . 12

A l l r i gh t . I ' d l i k e t o show you wha t I ' v e 13 Q .



Tho s e a r e t h e ma nd i bu l a r c a n i n e t e e t h on t h e 16 A .

s ame ho r s e . 17

And wha t do you s e e i n t ha t p i c t u r e? 18 Q .

Th e s e t e e t h h a v e a l s o b e e n s e v e r e l y r e du c e d , 19 A .

c r own r e du c t i on . Same p r o c e du r e . 20

And wha t i s t he pu r pos e o f do i ng r educ t i ons 21 Q .

l i k e t ha t ? 22

Th e r e ' s no me d i c a l i nd i c a t i on . Th e i nd i c a t i on , 23 A .

a g a i n , i s t o p r o t e c t t h e h a nd l e r o r t h e d e n t i s t . 24

Wha t k i nd o f e f f e c t s on t he ho r s e ' s den t a l 25 Q .

143

he a l t h i s t ha t k i nd o f r educ t i on l i k e l y t o ha v e? 1

On t h e h e a l t h , i mme d i a t e l y p a i n , b e c a u s e y ou ' v e 2 A .

e x po s e d t h e pu l p s . And t h e n e v e n t u a l l y wh e n t h e pu l p 3

d i e s , h e ' l l e i t h e r - - e i t h e r t h e t oo t h w i l l d i e a nd 4

r e s o r b , o r y ou w i l l h a v e a t oo t h r oo t a b s c e s s , wh i c h 5

w i l l b e c ome i n f e c t e d . 6

Wha t i s you r med i c a l op i n i on a s t o t he i mpa c t 7 Q .

o f t ha t p r oc edu r e on t he ho r s e ' s he a l t h? 8

Th e r e ' s no me d i c a l r e a s on t o do t h a t p r o c e du r e , 9 A .

a nd i t i s c a u s i ng p a i n a nd h a r m t o t h e ho r s e . 10


Exh i b i t No . 23 . Do you r e cogn i z e t ha t documen t ? 12

Th a t ' s t h e i n c i s o r s o f t h e s ame ho r s e . And i n 13 A .

t h i s p i c t u r e y ou ' r e s e e i ng a p r o c e du r e t h a t ' s c ommon l y 14

c a u s e d a n i n c i s o r b i t e r e du c t i on , wa s p e r f o r me d on t h e 15

ho r s e . You c a n t e l l t h a t b e c a u s e t h e i n c i s o r s a r e i n 16

p e r f e c t a l i gnme n t a nd no t h i ng i n n a t u r e i s i n p e r f e c t 17

a l i gnme n t . A l s o , wh a t y ou ' r e s e e i ng i s , t h e t wo 18

c i r c l e d a r e a s a r e d r a i n i ng t r a c k s f r om t h e t oo t h r oo t s . 19

So t h a t ' s a n i n f e c t i on o f t h e t oo t h r oo t on bo t h t ho s e 20

c e n t r a l i n c i s o r s . 21

I show you wha t i s ma r k ed a s Pe t i t i one r ' s 22 Q .

Exh i b i t No . 24 , o r P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 24 . Wha t i s 23


Th a t ' s t h e r a d i og r a ph s o f t ho s e s ame ma x i l l a r y 25 A .

144

i n c i s o r s , a nd t h e c i r c l e d a r e a s a r e a c t u a l l y t h e - - 1

t h a t i s wh e r e t h e t oo t h r oo t i n f e c t i on i s c om i ng ou t o f 2

t h e pu l p a nd d r a i n i ng ou t o f t h e t i s s u e s o f t h e bon e s . 3

So t h a t ' s t h e a c t u a l , t h e s i t e o f t h a t t oo t h r oo t 4

i n f e c t i on , t h e c i r c l e d a r e a s . 5

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ' d l i k e t o o f f e r P l a i n t i f f ' s 6

Exh i b i t s 21 , 22 and 23 and 24 i n t o e v i denc e a t t h i s 7

po i n t .8


o f f e r ed i n t o e v i denc e . )10

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , we do ob j e c t . We ha v e 11

conc e r ns abou t t he f ounda t i on t ha t ' s be en l a i d . The 12

t e s t i mony wa s t ha t t he s e we r e t he s ame ho r s e ; howe v e r , 13

t he r e a r e d r ama t i c a l l y d i f f e r en t da t e s on t he s e pho t os , 14

and t ha t ha s no t be en e xp l a i ned by t e s t i mony , and so we 15

wou l d que s t i on t he p r op r i e t y o f t he f ounda t i on t ha t ' s 16

be en e s t ab l i shed f o r t he s e documen t s . 17

I f you ' l l no t e on t h i s pho t o , i t s a y s t he p i c t u r e 18

wa s t a k en Sep t embe r 1s t , 2006 . And t hen on t wo o t he r 19

pho t os i t appe a r s t he y we r e t a k en F eb r ua r y 7 t h , o r 20

ma ybe some t i me i n 2007 , i t ' s ha r d t o t e l l .21

MR . FROWNFELTER : Tha t ' s a d i f f e r en t ho r s e . 22

MR . ROLAND : Ok a y . I gue s s I wa sn ' t c l e a r . 23

THE COURT : Sa y s B r e e z e 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 on m i n e . 24

MR . ROLAND : I ' l l add , we ' d a l so ob j e c t on t he 25

145

ba s i s o f r e l e v anc e . I t ' s ou r unde r s t and i ng t ha t t he 1

de f i n i t i on o f f l oa t i ng doe s no t encompa s s wo r k on 2

c an i ne s o r i nc i so r s , and so t he s e pho t os ha v e no 3

r e l e v anc e t o t he i s sue a t hand . 4

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ' l l r e spond t o t he r e l e v anc e 5

a r gumen t . B r ook e G r a y p r a c t i c e s a s a l a y equ i ne 6

den t i s t . The Boa r d s e e k s t o en j o i n he r f r om p r a c t i c i ng 7

l a y equ i ne den t i s t r y , wh i ch i s t oo t h r educ t i on . I 8

don ' t t h i nk t ha t Ms . G r a y c an d r aw a c i r c l e and s a y , 9

oh , I ' m on l y go i ng t o r educ e t he t e e t h t h i s much and 10

t ha t ' s l ega l ; and i f I r educ e t he t e e t h mo r e , i f I do 11

some t h i ng e l s e w i t h t he t e e t h , t ha t w i l l be i l l ega l . 12

I t i sn ' t pos s i b l e t o cu t ou t t he t i ny po r t i on o f 13

t he p r a c t i c e o f a p r o f e s s i on and s a y i t ' s ok a y t o do 14

t h i s . Tha t wou l d be l i k e s a y i ng , y e s , l awy e r s p r epa r e 15

p l e ad i ngs , so , you know , a s l ong a s - - o r l awy e r s d r a f t 16

w i l l s , so a s l ong a s - - bu t anybody c an copy t he 17

i n f o r ma t i on ou t o f a f o r m book a s l ong a s t he y don ' t go 18

f u r t he r and w r i t e i t up a s a w i l l . 19

You c an ' t cu t ou t an a c t i v i t y t ha t i s a po r t i on o f 20

a p r o f e s s i on , and i t ' s t h i s w i t ne s s ' t e s t i mony t ha t t he 21

p r a c t i c e o f t oo t h r educ t i on i s i n f a c t equ i ne den t i s t r y 22

t ha t i s - - and he ' s t e s t i f i ed r epe a t ed l y , i t ' s a 23

p r oc edu r e - - t he r educ t i on o f ename l i s a p r oc edu r e 24

t ha t shou l d be done on l y when t he r e ' s a d i agnos i s and a 25

146

ne ed . Tha t i s t he co r e o f h i s t e s t i mony . 1

Wha t t h i s i l l us t r a t e s i s wha t happens when a l a y 2

den t i s t , when a t oo t h f l oa t e r s t a r t s s aw i ng awa y a t 3

t e e t h w i t hou t a d i agnos i s and an i den t i f i c a t i on o f a 4

med i c a l ne ed , and i t ' s r e l e v an t f o r t ha t r e a son . 5

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , r e spond i ng t o t he f i r s t 6

pa r t o f oppos i ng couns e l ' s a r gumen t , i n f a c t , we ha v e 7

c i t ed f i v e f ede r a l c a s e s s a y i ng t ha t no t on l y c an you 8

c a r v e ou t a spe c t s o f wha t ha s be en de f i ned a s an 9

oc cupa t i ona l l i c ens ed oc cupa t i on , bu t i n some c a s e s t he 10

cons t i t u t i on r equ i r e s you t o c a r v e ou t t he m i n i ma l 11

c l e a r l y de f i ned p r a c t i c e . Tha t i s t he he a r t o f ou r 12

c a s e . And i f t he w i t ne s s c anno t ma k e h i s t e s t i mony 13

r e l e v an t t o t he l i m i t ed p r a c t i c e t he de f endan t i s 14

a s s e r t i ng i n t h i s c a s e , t hen t ha t ' s a p r ob l em f o r t he 15

w i t ne s s , i t ' s no t a p r ob l em f o r t he de f endan t . 16

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t , I ' m go i ng t o ov e r r u l e t he 17

ob j e c t i on . I - - f o r t he pu r pos e s o f j us t show i ng 18

wha t - - I ' l l j u s t ov e r r u l e t he ob j e c t i on a t t h i s po i n t . 19



( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) Doc t o r Ga l l owa y , wha t 22 Q .

co r r e c t i v e a c t i on d i d you t a k e a f t e r r e v i ew i ng wha t had 23

be en done i n t e r ms o f t h i s ho r s e , B r e e z e ' s t e e t h? 24

I r e c omme nd e d r oo t c a n a l t h e r a p y . Th e own e r 25 A .

147

e l e c t e d no t t o do i t . 1

A l l r i gh t , do you r e c a l l wo r k i ng on a ho r s e by 2 Q .

t he name o f Co l o r s? 3

Ye s . 4 A .

And wha t d i d t he owne r o f Co l o r s p r e s en t a s t he 5 Q .

p r ob l em w i t h t he ho r s e? 6

Co l o r s p r e s e n t e d f o r a no t h e r r ou t i n e d e n t a l 7 A .

e x am i n a t i on . He ' s a t a Hun t e r / J ump e r b a r n . Du r i ng t h e 8

h i s t o r y t h e b a r n ma n a g e r - - I wa s ou t t h e r e b e c a u s e a n 9

I ED c e r t i f i e d e x am i n e r l e v e l h a d wo r k e d i n t h a t b a r n 10

t e n y e a r s p r i o r t o me , a nd h e s a i d t h i s wa s a ho r s e 11

t h a t p r e s e n t e d . I n t h e f i r s t 20 ho r s e s I e x am i n e d i n 12

t h a t b a r n , I X - r a y e d 19 o f t h em w i t h p r ob l ems . 13

Th i s t ook p l a c e a t a ba r n wh i ch i s s e r v i c ed by 14 Q .

a l a y - - 15

F o r t h e p r i o r t e n y e a r s i t h a d b e e n s e r v i c e d b y 16 A .

t h e h i gh e s t l e v e l o f c e r t i f i c a t i on t h r ough t h e I AED . 17

I AED s t ands f o r wha t ? 18 Q .

I n t e r n a t i on a l As s o c i a t i on o f Equ i n e De n t i s t r y . 19 A .

And wha t i s t he I AED? I don ' t t h i nk i t ' s be en 20 Q .

men t i oned y e t t oda y . 21

I t ' s a t oo t h f l o a t e r c l ub . 22 A .

And so t he pe r son who wa s t r e a t i ng t he t e e t h a t 23 Q .

t ha t ba r n wa s , wou l d you cons i de r t ha t pe r son a l a y 24

equ i ne den t i s t ? 25

148

He wa s a l a y t oo t h f l o a t e r , h e wa s no t a n 1 A .

e qu i n e d e n t i s t . 2

Ok a y , I ' d l i k e you t o l ook a t wha t ' s be en 3 Q .


t ha t p i c t u r e? 5

Th e s e a r e Co l o r s ' i n c i s o r s . 6 A .

Who t ook t ha t p i c t u r e? 7 Q .

I d i d . 8 A .

And d i d you t a k e i t - - when d i d you t a k e i t ? 9 Q .

Du r i ng t h e o r a l e x am i n a t i on p r o c e s s . 10 A .

Wha t doe s t ha t - - wha t do you s e e i n t ha t 11 Q .

p i c t u r e t ha t you ' r e l ook i ng a t ? 12

F r om a d e n t a l s t a ndpo i n t , t h e c l i n i c a l 13 A .

f i nd i ng s , we ' v e go t g i ng i v a l r e c e s s i on on t h e i n c i s o r s . 14

Th e t e e t h a r e e x t r ud i ng . We ' v e go t h y p e r c eme n t o s i s , 15

a nd i f t h e l oo k , t h e l e f t ma x i l l a r y t h i r d i n c i s o r i s 16

f r a c t u r e d . 17

Whe r e doe s t he , t he g i ng i v i t i s you men t i oned , 18 Q .

whe r e doe s t ha t man i f e s t ? 19

I n t h e s e r i dg e s o f g i ng i v a ( w i t n e s s 20 A .

i nd i c a t i ng ) . 21

Ok a y . 22 Q .

Th e t i s s u e t h a t - - t h e s o f t t i s s u e t h a t 23 A .

a t t a c h e s f ood t o t h e t oo t h . 24

And wha t t e l l s you t ha t a t oo t h i s f r a c t u r ed? 25 Q .

149

I c a n s e e a f r a c t u r e l i n e on t h e t oo t h .1 A .


Exh i b i t No . 25 i n t o e v i denc e .3


e v i denc e . ) 5

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , l e t me j us t r e s t a t e t he 6

p r e v i ous ob j e c t i on f o r t he r e co r d . 7

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . Tha t w i l l b e ov e r r u l ed . 8

P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 25 w i l l be adm i t t ed . 9


e v i denc e . )11

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) I ' d l i k e you t o l ook a t 12 Q .

wha t we ' v e ma r k ed a s Pe t i t i one r ' s Exh i b i t 26 . Wha t 13

doe s - - wha t i s t ha t ? 14

So t h i s i s t h e - - t h i s i s t h e l e f t , t h e l e f t 15 A .

i ma g e o f t h e l e f t a n t e r i o r d e n t i t i on , wh i c h i s t h e 16

i n c i s o r s a nd c a n i n e t e e t h . On h e r e y ou c a n c l e a r l y s e e 17

t h e t h i r d ma x i l l a r y i n c i s o r , l e f t t h i r d ma x i l l a r y 18

i n c i s o r i s f r a c t u r e d . Th e r e ' s a l s o a bu l bu s a r e a 19

a t y p i c a l t o t h a t , a nd t h a t p r e s e n t a t i on h a s 20

s i gn i f i c a n c e . I f y ou l oo k a t t h e ma nd i bu l a r i n c i s o r s , 21

t h e r e ' s bu l bu s r e a c t i on s on t h e g i ng i v a t h e r e a nd t h a t 22

h a s d e n t a l s i gn i f i c a n c e . And t h r oughou t t h e p i c t u r e 23

y ou ' r e s e e i ng f i s t u l ou s t r a c k s . 24

I s t h i s a l so a p i c t u r e o f t he s ame ho r s e , 25 Q .

150

Co l o r s? 1

Ye s , s ame ho r s e . 2 A .

And wa s t h i s a l so t a k en a t t he t i me you d i d t he 3 Q .


Ye s .5 A .

MR . FROWNF ELTER : I ' d l i k e t o o f f e r P l a i n t i f f ' s 6

Exh i b i t 26 i n t o e v i denc e .7


e v i denc e . )9

MR . ROLAND : Same ob j e c t i on , You r Hono r . 10

THE COURT : I ' l l o v e r r u l e t he ob j e c t i on . 26 w i l l 11

b e a dm i t t e d .12


e v i denc e . )14

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) I ' d l i k e you t o l ook a t 15 Q .

wha t I ' v e ma r k ed a s Exh i b i t 27 . Do you r e cogn i z e t ha t 16

documen t ? 17

Ye s . Th i s i s t h e s ame ho r s e du r i ng t h e s ame 18 A .

e x am i n a t i on . And t h i s i s t h e r i gh t a s p e c t o f t h e 19

a n t e r i o r d e n t i t i on on t h i s on e , y e t y ou s e e s i m i l a r 20

l e s i on s t o t h e i n c i s o r s , bu t on t h i s on e t h e c a n i n e 21

t oo t h i s m i s s i ng , t h e r i gh t ma x i l l a r y c a n i n e t oo t h . 22

And d i d you t a k e t h i s p i c t u r e du r i ng you r 23 Q .


Ye s .25 A .

151

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ' d l i k e t o o f f e r Exh i b i t No . 27 1

i n t o e v i denc e .2


e v i denc e . ) 4

MR . ROLAND : I n add i t i on t o t he con t i nu i ng 5

ob j e c t i on , You r Hono r , i t oc cu r s t o me we shou l d ob j e c t 6

t ha t t he s e p i c t u r e s we r e f i r s t p r ov i ded t o us , I 7

be l i e v e , w i t h i n t he l a s t 48 hou r s , and we ' v e had no 8

oppo r t un i t y - - t he y we r e o f f e r ed w i t hou t e xp l ana t i on , 9

and so we had no oppo r t un i t y t o e xp l o r e t he ba c kg r ound 10

o f t h i s and t o o f f e r any so r t o f e v i denc e i n 11

con t r ad i c t i on t o wha t i s be i ng o f f e r ed t oda y . So I ' d 12

l i k e t o add t ha t t o t he ob j e c t i on ba s ed on r e l e v anc e 13

and p r oba t i v e v a l ue v e r sus p r e j ud i c i a l e f f e c t . 14

THE COURT : Do you ha v e a spe c i f i c d i s cov e r y 15

r eque s t , t he s e t ha t you ' r e r e f e r r i ng t o? 16

MR . ROLAND : No , You r Hono r . Th i s , t h i s wa s 17

s i mp l y - - t he p i c t u r e s we r e d i s c l os ed i n t he cou r s e o f 18

no r ma l , ma k i ng , ma k i ng e a ch o t he r awa r e o f t he e xh i b i t s 19

t h a t we r e i n t e nd e d t o b e o f f e r e d . We do h a v e a 20

s t and i ng d i s cov e r y r eque s t , bu t I don ' t be l i e v e t ha t 21

t he s e p i c t u r e s we r e subm i t t ed spe c i f i c a l l y unde r t ha t 22

d i s cov e r y r eque s t .23

MR . FROWNFELTER : Doc t o r Ga l l owa y wa s engaged l a t e , 24

and we a s k ed h i m t o go t h r ough h i s c a s e s and come up 25

152

w i t h e x amp l e s , and t he s e a r e e x amp l e s t ha t he 1

i den t i f i ed . The y we r e on l y i den t i f i ed w i t h i n t he l a s t 2

we e k and p r ov i ded t o M r . Ro l and abou t a s soon a s he wa s 3

ab l e t o i den t i f y t hem . 4

I t wou l d ha v e be en be t t e r i f we had had t hem 5

e a r l i e r and d i s c l os ed t hem e a r l i e r , bu t I t h i nk t ha t 6

t he p i c t u r e s spe a k f o r wha t t he y s a y , and Doc t o r 7

Ga l l owa y w i l l be sub j e c t t o any c r os s - e x am i n a t i on 8

M r . Ro l and wan t s t o ma k e r ega r d i ng t he s i gn i f i c anc e o f 9

t he p i c t u r e s . 10

THE COURT : We l l , t ha t ob j e c t i on wa sn ' t made w i t h 11

r e spe c t t o 25 and 26 , so I w i l l sus t a i n t he ob j e c t i on 12

w i t h r e spe c t - - I a s sume - - I gue s s my que s t i on wa s , 13

wa s i n t ended , wa s t h i s , wa s t he r e a spe c i f i c d i s cov e r y 14

r eque s t abou t documen t s t ha t we r e go i ng t o be us ed by 15

t h i s pa r t i cu l a r e xpe r t w i t ne s s? I f t he r e wa s , t hen , 16

wa s t h i s p r ov i ded pu r suan t t o t ha t - - 17

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ye s . And we p r ov i ded t hem when 18

t he y be c ame a v a i l ab l e t o us , wh i ch wa s v e r y l a t e i n t he 19

game . Bu t we p r ov i ded t hem t o h i m a s soon a s we had 20

t hem . 21

THE COURT : We l l I w i l l sus t a i n t ha t ob j e c t i on w i t h 22

r e spe c t t o Exh i b i t No . 27 . I t w i l l no t be adm i t t ed 23


MR . FROWNFELTER : You r Hono r , a r e you go i ng t o - - 25

153

doe s t ha t me an t ha t a l l o f t he p i c t u r e s t ha t we r e - - 1

t he s e we r e a l l d i s c l os ed a t t he s ame t i me , doe s 2

t ha t pa r t i cu l a r - - 3

THE COURT : No , t ha t ob j e c t i on wa sn ' t be f o r e me on 4

t hos e and t hos e ha v e be en adm i t t ed , so wha t ' s be en 5

adm i t t ed ha s be en adm i t t ed .6


( BY MR . FROWNFELTER) I ' d l i k e you t o l ook a t 8 Q .

wha t ' s ma r k ed a s Pe t i t i one r ' s Exh i b i t 28 . 9

Ye s . 10 A .


Th i s i s t h e , t h i s i s t h e r a d i og r a ph o f t h e 12 A .

ma nd i bu l a r i n c i s o r s a nd c a n i n e t e e t h on t h a t ho r s e 13

s how i ng t h e r a d i og r a ph i c l e s i on s i n t h i s c a s e . And 14

t h i s l e a d s y ou t o t h e d i a gno s i s f o r t h e c a s e , wh i c h 15

wa s , t h i s i s t oo t h r e s o r p t i on i n t h e ho r s e wh i c h i s now 16

on e o f t h e mo s t popu l a r d i s e a s e s b e i ng i d e n t i f i e d i n 17

ho r s e s . 18

I t ' s a c h r on i c , p r og r e s s i v e d i s e a s e i n t h e 19

a n t e r i o r d e n t i t i on . And my op i n i on i s i t s hou l d h a v e 20

b e e n r e c ogn i z e d s i n c e i t ' s c h r on i c a nd p r og r e s s i v e . 21

Th i s d i dn ' t h a pp e n w i t h i n t h e l a s t y e a r o f t h i s 22

ho r s e ' s , b e f o r e I e x am i n e d i t . 23


Exh i b i t 28 i n t o e v i denc e .25

154


e v i denc e . ) 2

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , we ' l l r enew t he ob j e c t i on 3

we j us t vo i c ed a s t o undue su r p r i s e and un t i me l y 4

r e v e l a t i on o f t he e xh i b i t s . 5

THE COURT : You a l so - - I don ' t t h i nk t h i s ha s be en 6

t i ed i n t o t he f l oa t i ng . I ' l l sus t a i n t he ob j e c t i on . I 7

a s sume - - wa s t h i s p r ov i ded i n t he l a s t 48 hou r s , t oo , 8

M r . F r own f e l t e r ? 9

MR . FROWNFELTER : No , i t wa s - - we l l , i t wa s 10

app r ox i ma t e l y t h r e e da y s , I t h i nk i t wa s t he end o f 11

l a s t we e k some t i me , I don ' t t h i nk i t wa s 48 hou r s .12


MR . FROWNFELTER : A l l r i gh t .14

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) On t he who l e , when you 15 Q .

t r e a t ed Co l o r s , t hen , you f ound a numbe r o f med i c a l 16

cond i t i ons i n de v e l opmen t ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 17

Ye s , i n t h a t c a s e . Th e d i a gno s i s i n t h a t c a s e 18 A .

i s e qu i n e odon t o c l a s t i c t oo t h r e s o r p t i on a nd 19

h y p e r c eme n t o s i s . Th e t r e a t me n t , t h e c u r r e n t t r e a t me n t 20

i s e x t r a c t i on o f a l l t ho s e t e e t h . 21

I s i t you r be l i e f t ha t t he s e cond i t i ons you 22 Q .

de t e c t ed r e su l t ed f r om t he f l oa t i ng t ha t wa s pe r f o r med 23

by t he l a y den t i s t t ha t wa s r epo r t ed t o you? 24

Th a t i s on e o f t h e c u r r e n t t h e o r i e s ; I 25 A .

155

c a nno t - - t h a t wou l d b e s p e c u l a t i on f o r me t o s a y i t 1

wa s c a u s e d b y t h a t d e n t i s t . Bu t h e m i s s e d t h a t 2

d i a gno s i s . 3

Wou l d i t be co r r e c t t hen t o s a y t ha t t he 4 Q .

p r ob l em t ha t you i den t i f i ed w i t h t h i s pa r t i cu l a r c a s e 5

wa s mo r e a ma t t e r o f s i gn i f i c an t den t a l p r ob l ems go i ng 6

unde t e c t ed t han a c t ua l damage done t o t he ho r s e? 7

Th e r e wa s a c t u a l d ama g e don e t o t h a t ho r s e - - 8 A .

we l l , h e d i d no t do t h e d ama g e . Th i s ho r s e h a d a 9

s e v e r e d e n t a l c ond i t i on t h a t s hou l d h a v e b e e n t r e a t e d . 10

Th i s ho r s e wa s i n p a i n . And no t r e c ogn i t i on o f t h e 11

d i s e a s e a l l owe d t h i s ho r s e t o s u f f e r . 12

A l l r i gh t . Do you r e c a l l t r e a t men t o f a ho r s e 13 Q .

by t he name o f Lady? 14

T r e a t me n t . Ye s , I e u t h a n i z e d t h e ho r s e . 15 A .

A l l r i gh t . Wha t wa s t he cond i t i on - - wha t we r e 16 Q .

t he c i r cums t anc e unde r wh i ch t he c a s e o f Lady wa s 17

p r e s en t ed t o you? 18

I wa s c a l l e d e a r l y on e mo r n i ng t o e v a l u a t e a 19 A .

ho r s e f o r d e n t a l c ond i t i on s , t o do a d e n t a l e v a l u a t i on 20

on t h e ho r s e . Wh e n I a r r i v e d a t t h e ho r s e t h e ho r s e 21

wa s s e v e r e l y n e u r o l og i c a nd c i r c l i ng . And t h e r e a s on I 22

h a d b e e n c a l l e d wa s b e c a u s e t h e ho r s e h a d r e c e n t l y h a d 23

d e n t a l wo r k e d p e r f o r me d on i t , w i t h i n t h e l a s t we e k . 24

We l l l e t ' s go s t ep by s t ep . Wha t e x a c t 25 Q .

156

s ymp t oms we r e you s e e i ng i n t he ho r s e when you we r e 1

c a l l ed t o s e e i t ? 2

Th e i mme d i a t e s ymp t oms wa s i t wa s n e u r o l og i c 3 A .

w i t h a f e v e r . So my t e n t a t i v e d i a gno s i s wa s 4

s e p t i c em i a . 5

Oh , s ep t i c em i a . When you s a y neu r o l og i c , wha t 6 Q .

doe s t ha t me an i n e v e r yda y t e r ms? 7

I t wa s , i t wa s c i r c l i ng . I t d i d no t h a v e 8 A .

c o r r e c t me n t a t i on , d i dn ' t k now wh e r e i t wa s , a nd i t wa s 9

c i r c l i ng i n a c i r c l e . 10

And wha t e v i denc e o f s ep t i c em i a d i d you de t e c t ? 11 Q .

I t h a d a f e v e r , a nd s ub s e qu e n t l y I d i d 12 A .

d i a gno s t i c wo r k t o t r y a nd i d e n t i f y t h e e x a c t c a u s e o f 13

t h e d i s e a s e p r o c e s s . 14

Wha t wa s r epo r t ed t o you i n t e r ms o f t he 15 Q .

h i s t o r y o f t ha t ho r s e ' s den t a l t r e a t men t ? 16

Th e r e a s on I wa s c a l l e d , s p e c i f i c a l l y , wa s f o r 17 A .

o r a l e v a l u a t i on o f t h e ho r s e , b e c a u s e i t h a d j u s t 18

p r e v i ou s l y h a d d e n t a l wo r k w i t h i n t h e l a s t we e k , a nd 19

now i t wa s i n t h i s c ond i t i on . So I wa s c a l l e d f o r , 20

t e c hn i c a l l y , a s a s e c ond op i n i on a nd t o t r e a t t h e 21

ho r s e .22

And a s a r e su l t o f t ha t t r e a t men t wha t a c t i on 23 Q .

wa s t a k en w i t h r ega r d t o t he ho r s e? 24

Du e t o t h e poo r p r ogno s i s f o r r e c o v e r y , t h e 25 A .

157

own e r e l e c t e d t o e u t h a n i z e t h e ho r s e . 1

D i d you ha v e any med i c a l e v i denc e t ha t 2 Q .

i nd i c a t ed a pos s i b l e sou r c e o f t he s ep t i c em i a f r om 3

wh i ch t he ho r s e wa s su f f e r i ng? 4

I d i d a n e c r op s y o f t h e ho r s e , b e c a u s e I wa s 5 A .

c u r i ou s a s t o wh a t m i gh t h a v e h a pp e n e d . Th e own e r s 6

wa n t e d t o k now , a nd t h e p i c t u r e s t h a t I p r e s e n t e d a r e 7

o f t h e o r a l e x am i n a t i on , h e a r t o f t h a t e x am i n a t i on . 8


Pe t i t i one r ' s Exh i b i t No . 29 . Do you r e cogn i z e t h i s 10

documen t ? 11

Ye s . Th e s e a r e f a i r l y g r a ph i c p i c t u r e s o f t h e 12 A .

l e s i on s t h a t I s aw i n t h e o r a l c a v i t y o f t h e ho r s e . 13

D i d you t a k e t hos e p i c t u r e s? 14 Q .

Ye s . 15 A .

I n you r med i c a l e xpe r i enc e how c an l e s i ons l i k e 16 Q .

t ha t a r i s e? 17

Th e s e , on h i s t o l og i e s t h e s e we r e g r a nu l oma t ou s 18 A .

l e s i on s . So t y p i c a l l y i t ' s a - - i t ' s t y p i c a l l y no t a n 19

a c u t e i n f e c t i on , b e a mo r e l ong - s t a nd i ng i n f e c t i on , 20

f ung a l i n f e c t i on . So i t ' s t y p i c a l l y no t a s i mp l e 21

b a c t e r i a l i n f e c t i on c a u s i ng t h e s e u l c e r a t i v e l e s i on s . 22

Bu t I , I do no t h a v e a - - d i d no t g e t a d e f i n i t i v e 23

d i a gno s i s o f t h e c a u s e o f t ho s e s p e c i f i c l e s i on s . 24

I n you r op i n i on i s t he r e any med i c a l conne c t i on 25 Q .

158

be t we en t he l e s i ons you obs e r v ed and t he f a c t t ha t t he 1

ho r s e ' s t e e t h had be en f l oa t ed? 2

As I s a i d , i t ' s b e e n , i t ' s b e e n do c ume n t e d i n 3 A .

t h e l i t e r a t u r e t h a t , t h a t o r a l c ond i t i on s c a n c a u s e 4

s e p t i c em i a a nd s y s t em i c c ond i t i on s . I n t h i s c a s e t h e 5

ho r s e k n ew i t wa s n e u r o l og i c , a nd a c t u a l l y , t h a t i s 6

wh a t I wa s t r y i ng t o do c ume n t a t t h e t i me . 7

I u s e d t h i s c a s e a s a l e a r n i ng po i n t , t h e ho r s e 8

wa s n e v e r e x am i n e d . Th e ho r s e wa s f l o a t e d w i t hou t a n 9

e x am i n a t i on . And h a d t h e p r o c e du r e b e e n don e wh e r e t h e 10

ho r s e wa s e x am i n e d a nd t h e d i a gno s i s ma d e , t h e y wou l d 11

h a v e n e v e r don e t h e f l o a t i ng . I t wou l d h a v e e nd e d a nd 12

i t ma y h a v e p r e v e n t e d t h e d e a t h o f t h i s ho r s e . 13

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , I ' m go i ng t o ob j e c t and 14

mov e t o s t r i k e . I don ' t be l i e v e t ha t t he r e ' s be en a 15

f ounda t i on l a i d t ha t he ha s any pe r sona l know l edge a s 16

t o whe t he r t he ho r s e wa s e x am i ned o r no t .17

MR . FROWNFELTER : I t ' s adm i s s i b l e , e x am i ned . 18

MR . ROLAND : We l l he ' s t e s t i f y i ng t ha t t he ho r s e 19

dep i c t ed i n t hos e p i c t u r e s wa s no t e x am i n ed p r i o r t o 20

f l oa t i ng . I f he wa s no t p r e s en t f o r t he f l oa t i ng he 21

ha s no pe r sona l know l edge a s t o whe t he r t he ho r s e wa s 22

e x am i ned o r no t . 23

THE W I TNESS : Ma y I answe r t he que s t i on?24

MR . FROWNFELTER : The t e s t i mony wa s t ha t an 25

159

e x am i na t i on wou l d ha v e - - an o r a l e x am i na t i on o f t h i s 1

ho r s e wou l d ha v e de t e c t ed t he s e r i ous l e s i ons , t he 2

s e r i ous med i c a l cond i t i on t ha t wa s de v e l op i ng i n i t s 3

mou t h pe r haps a t a t i me when i t wou l d ha v e be en 4

pos s i b l e t o s a v e t he ho r s e ' s l i f e . 5

THE COURT : I ' m go i ng t o sus t a i n t he ob j e c t i on 6

be c aus e I don ' t t h i nk t he r e ha s be en any t h i ng i nd i c a t ed 7

whe t he r o r no t he knows whe t he r o r no t t he ho r s e wa s 8

e x am i n ed . I t h i nk i t wa s a s sumed , so I t h i nk t ha t ' s a 9

f a i r ob j e c t i on a t t h i s po i n t . I me an , I don ' t know 10

whe t he r he knows t ha t o r no t . 11

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER) Doc t o r Ga l l owa y , i n you r 12 Q .

med i c a l op i n i on , wha t wou l d you r op i n i on be o f t he 13

p r a c t i c e o f pe r f o r m i ng f l oa t i ng p r oc edu r e s on t he mou t h 14

o f a ho r s e w i t h t he l e s i ons i n t he cond i t i on t ha t t he y 15

we r e i n when you obs e r v ed t hem? 16

My op i n i on wou l d b e t h a t t h a t p r o c e du r e wa s a 17 A .

h i gh p r i o r i t y p r o c e du r e t h a t s hou l d h a v e b e e n don e 18

f i r s t ; t h a t t h i s c ond i t i on i nd i c a t e d t h a t d e n t i s t r y wa s 19

p r ob a b l y no t t h e p r i ma r y p r ob l em w i t h t h a t ho r s e on 20

t h a t d a y . 21


Exh i b i t 29 i n t o e v i denc e . 23


e v i denc e . )25

160

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , we ob j e c t no t on l y be c aus e 1

t h i s wa s pa r t o f t he s ame ba t ch o f pho t os t ha t we r e 2

p r ov i ded t he o t he r da y , bu t a l so , e spe c i a l l y i n t h i s 3

c a s e , t he p r oba t i v e v a l ue i s g r e a t l y ou t we i ghed by 4

p r e j ud i c i a l e f f e c t . 5

THE COURT : When wa s t ha t p r ov i ded? Same t i me , 6

l a s t coup l e da y s?7

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ye s . 8

THE COURT : I ' l l sus t a i n t he ob j e c t i on .9

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER) I n t he cou r s e o f you r 10 Q .

p r a c t i c e ha v e you encoun t e r ed any o t he r e x amp l e s o f 11

cond i t i ons wh i ch , cond i t i ons wh i ch we r e c aus ed by 12

me chan i c a l o r o t he r t r e a t men t o f a ho r s e ' s t e e t h , 13

med i c a l cond i t i ons t ha t r equ i r ed f u r t he r t r e a t men t ? 14

Ye s , I h a v e . I me a n , I g a v e t h e s e e x amp l e s , 15 A .

wh i ch we r e e x c l uded , bu t y e s , I ha v e . 16

Wha t I ' m a s k i ng , a r e t he s e t he on l y e x amp l e s 17 Q .

t ha t you ' r e awa r e o f , s i t ua t i ons whe r e s e r i ous o r a l 18

p r ob l ems de v e l oped i n t he a f t e r ma t h o f f l oa t i ng o f 19

t e e t h by l a y den t i s t s? 20

F i r s t h a nd k now l e dg e o r ? 21 A .

F i r s t hand . 22 Q .

We l l f i r s t h a nd k now l e dg e , I ' v e s e e n o t h e r 23 A .

c a s e s , p e r s on a l l y . I ' v e a l s o s e e n p i c t u r e s o f o t h e r 24

c a s e s . 25

161

A l l r i gh t , a r e you f am i l i a r w i t h any 1 Q .

non - v e t e r i na r i an equ i ne den t a l p r a c t i t i one r s o r t oo t h 2

f l oa t e r s i n you r a r e a? 3

Ye s . 4 A .

Any i n pa r t i cu l a r t ha t come t o m i nd? 5 Q .

We ' v e go t a ma n n ame d Ron J ohn s on who c l a i ms t o 6 A .

b e a n e qu i n e d e n t i s t . We a l s o h a v e a no t h e r ma n c a l l e d 7

Wa yne Hodge who c l a i ms t o be a doc t o r . 8

Wha t qua l i f i c a t i ons doe s t ha t M r . Johnson 9 Q .

c l a i m? 10

He a d v e r t i s e s t h a t h e wa s t r a i n e d i n d e n t a l 11 A .

equ i ne den t i s t r y .12

MR . ROLAND : Ob j e c t i on , You r Hono r , c a l l s f o r a 13

he a r s a y r e spons e . 14

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ' l l mov e on , I ' l l a s k ano t he r 15

que s t i on . 16

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . Sus t a i ned .17

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER) Ha v e you e v e r obs e r v ed 18 Q .

M r . Johnson i n t he p r oc e s s o f f l oa t i ng any t e e t h? 19

Ye s . 20 A .

And wha t we r e t he c i r cums t anc e s unde r wh i ch you 21 Q .

made t ha t obs e r v a t i on? 22

He wa s a t a l o c a l s t a b l e , a r e n a p e r f o r m i ng 23 A .

t oo t h f l o a t i ng . 24

Wa s t he r e any v e t e r i na r i an i n t he a r e a when he 25 Q .

162

wa s do i ng t h i s? 1

No . 2 A .

D i d you he a r h i m - - ok a y , ne v e r m i nd . 3 Q .

D i d you obs e r v e h i m pe r f o r m any f l oa t i ng 4

p r oc edu r e s? 5

I ob s e r v e d h i m f l o a t a nd p e r f o r m odon t op l a s t y , 6 A .

and he had e v i denc e t ha t he had be en e x t r a c t i ng t e e t h . 7

Wha t e v i denc e t ha t he had be en e x t r a c t i ng t e e t h 8 Q .

d i d you s e e? 9

He had - - 10 A .

MR . ROLAND : Ob j e c t i on , You r Hono r , r e l e v anc e . 11

Wha t a l a y f l oa t e r ha s done i n Tenne s s e e ha s no be a r i ng 12

on t he i s sue be f o r e t h i s Cou r t . 13

MR . FROWNFELTER : Onc e aga i n , we ' r e de a l i ng w i t h a 14

cons t i t u t i ona l cha l l enge t o a r egu l a t i on - - t o a 15

l eg i s l a t i on t ha t p r oh i b i t s t he s e p r a c t i c e s , and I t h i nk 16

t ha t t he s cope o f t he cha l l enge i s such t ha t t he f a c t 17

t ha t a pe r son who c l a i ms t o be a t oo t h f l oa t e r who i s 18

a l so e x t r a c t i ng t e e t h i s r e l e v an t t o t he i nqu i r e be f o r e 19

t he Cou r t . 20

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , ou r cha l l enge doe s no t 21

encompa s s wha t o t he r peop l e i n o t he r s t a t e s a r e do i ng . 22

Ou r cha l l enge encompa s s e s wha t t he de f endan t i s a l l eged 23

t o ha v e done he r e i n M i s sou r i . Te s t i mony abou t wha t 24

o t he r peop l e do i n o t he r p l a c e s s i mp l y ha s no be a r i ng 25

163

on t he cons t i t u t i ona l cha l l enge be f o r e t h i s Cou r t . 1

MR . FROWNFELTER : The cha l l enge be f o r e t he Cou r t i s 2

t ha t t he Un i t ed S t a t e s Cons t i t u t i on p r oh i b i t s t he S t a t e 3

o f M i s sou r i f r om de f i n i ng who c an pe r f o r m a c t i v i t i e s 4

t ha t a r e r e l a t ed t o v e t e r i na r y den t i s t r y .5

M r . Ro l and c an s a y i t ' s on l y con f i ned t o t oo t h 6

f l oa t i ng , bu t i f t he l og i c o f wha t he ' s s a y i ng wou l d 7

a l so - - i f i t r e su l t s i n t he i nv a l i da t i on o f t he l aw , 8

wou l d a l so e x t end t o o t he r a c t i v i t i e s wh i ch c an , and i n 9

t he c a s e o f many peop l e who engage i n t h i s k i nd o f 10

p r a c t i c e , do i nc l ude i n t r us i v e a c t i v i t i e s such a s t oo t h 11

e x t r a c t i on . 12

MR . ROLAND : I f I ma y? You r Hono r , a s I ha v e 13

s t a t ed p r e v i ous l y i n t h i s Cou r t , t he cons t i t u t i ona l 14

cha l l enge t ha t we ha v e r a i s ed c anno t i nv a l i da t e t h i s 15

l aw . I t c anno t r epe a l i t o r f o r c e i t s ab r oga t i on . We 16

a r e pu r su i ng an a s - app l i ed cha l l enge . The s t a t u t e w i l l 17

r ema i n p r e c i s e l y a s i t i s . The r u l i ng f r om t h i s Cou r t 18

wou l d s i mp l y s a y , t he l aw ma y no t be app l i ed t o someone 19

who ' s on l y engag i ng i n t he p r a c t i c e o f f l oa t i ng , t he 20

p r o f e s s i ona l de f i n i t i on wh i ch ha s be en c l e a r l y de f i ned . 21

Tha t i s t he na t u r e o f t h i s cha l l enge . 22

THE COURT : Do you ag r e e t ha t ' s t he na t u r e o f t he 23

cha l l enge? 24

MR . FROWNFELTER : I t h i nk t he r e a ch o f t he 25

164

cha l l enge i s f u r t he r . M r . Ro l and c an s a y , you know , 1

we ' r e on l y s e e k i ng t o app l y i t t o t he s e f a c t s , bu t t he 2

a r gumen t s t ha t he ' s ma k i ng go t o t he l a r ge r i n t e r e s t s 3

o f whe t he r t he S t a t e o f M i s sou r i c an i den t i f y a 4

l eg i t i ma t e s t a t e i n t e r e s t and t hen i mp l emen t t ha t i n 5

t he wa y t he y ha v e . 6

I don ' t t h i nk c a l l i ng i t an a s - app l i ed cha l l enge 7

change s t he ba s i s on wh i ch t h i s s t a t u t e i s ba s ed . 8

THE COURT : So a s I unde r s t and i t , you ' r e 9

cha l l eng i ng t he s t a t u t e wh i ch p r oh i b i t s t he p r a c t i c e o f 10

equ i ne den t i s t r y ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 11

MR . ROLAND : No t qu i t e , You r Hono r . 12

THE COURT : W i t hou t a l i c ens e o r - - 13

MR . ROLAND : We a r e no t cha l l eng i ng t h i s s t a t u t e ; 14

we a r e cha l l eng i ng i t s app l i c a t i on . I n s i m i l a r 15

c a s e s - - 16

THE COURT : Bu t you a r e cha l l eng i ng t he s i t ua t i on 17

whe r e t he y - - you ' r e cha l l eng i ng t he r a t i ona l i t y o f 18

ha v i ng - - f o r i ns t anc e , p r oh i b i t i ng pe r sons do i ng 19

f l oa t i ng when t he y ' r e pa i d v e r sus one s when t he y ' r e no t 20

pa i d and t he y ' r e do i ng i t vo l un t a r i l y ; co r r e c t ? 21

MR . ROLAND : Tha t i s pa r t o f t he cha l l enge , y e s . 22

THE COURT : So t ha t wou l d cha l l enge t he s t a t u t e 23

i t s e l f ; wou l d i t no t ? 24

MR . ROLAND : Tha t i s a l so an a s - app l i ed cha l l enge . 25

165

I t wou l d s i mp l y p r oh i b i t t he S t a t e f r om c r e a t i ng t ha t 1

d i s t i nc t i on , f r om en f o r c i ng t ha t d i s t i nc t i on . A c a s e 2

t ha t ' s p r e c i s e l y on po i n t , You r Hono r , i s t he Ma r y f i e l d 3

Ve l ocu l a r ( phone t i c ) c a s e ou t o f t he 9 t h C i r cu i t , whe r e 4

you we r e de a l i ng w i t h t wo d i f f e r en t t ype s o f pe s t 5

con t r o l p r a c t i t i one r s , and t he S t a t e e x emp t ed one s e t 6

and d i d no t e x emp t ano t he r s e t . And t he Cou r t s a i d , 7

you c anno t cons t i t u t i ona l l y ma k e t h i s d i s t i nc t i on . Bu t 8

t he Cou r t d i d no t s t r i k e down t he l aw . The y s i mp l y 9

s a i d , you a r e no t a l l owed t o en f o r c e t h i s d i s t i nc t i on . 10

Es s en t i a l l y , i f you ' r e go i ng t o a l l ow t h i s so r t o f 11

beha v i o r f o r one g r oup , you mus t a l l ow i t f o r t he 12

o t he r , bu t i t d i d no t change t he s t a t u t e . 13

MR . FROWNFELTER : M r . Ro l and ha s s t a t ed an 14

i mmens e l y b r oad cha l l enge t o t he s t a t u t e . He spen t a 15

l o t o f t i me t a l k i ng abou t , i s i t chang i ng an an i ma l ' s 16

cond i t i on t o cu t i t s f u r ; i s i t chang i ng an an i ma l ' s 17

cond i t i on t o cu t i t s na i l s . I f t h i s i s on l y an app l i ed 18

cha l l enge , why i s he a s k i ng t hos e que s t i ons? He i s - - 19

he ha s b r oaded t he s t a t u t e . I t s e ems i t ' s b r oad when 20

he wan t s t o , t o ma k e t he s t a t u t e s e em r i d i cu l ous and i t 21

ge t s na r r ow when i t come s t o a c t ua l l y de a l i ng w i t h v e r y 22

c l os e l y r e l a t ed a c t i v i t i e s t ha t we don ' t ha v e p r oo f 23

t ha t h i s c l i en t pe r f o r ms . I t ha s t o be one o r t he 24

o t he r . 25

166

I v i ew t h i s a s a t o t a l a t t a c k on t he v a l i d i t y o f 1

t he s t a t u t e , on t he v a l i d i t y o f t he a t t o r ne y gene r a l - - 2

o f t he l eg i s l a t o r o f M i s sou r i , t o adop t l i m i t a t i ons on 3

who c an pe r f o r m a den t a l p r oc edu r e . And t he r e f o r e , you 4

know , t h i s i s a c l os e l y r e l a t ed den t a l p r oc edu r e , and 5

i f i t i s uncons t i t u t i ona l t o ban somebody f r om c a r v i ng 6

awa y t he ename l on a ho r s e ' s t e e t h , t hen i t ' s p r obab l y 7

a l so uncons t i t u t i ona l t o ban t hem f r om pu l l i ng a t oo t h . 8

THE COURT : We l l , I ' l l ov e r r u l e t he ob j e c t i on . 9

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ok a y . We ' l l mov e on . 10

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) So , t a l k i ng spe c i f i c a l l y 11 Q .

abou t t he t oo t h f l oa t i ng a c t i v i t i e s , t he r educ t i on o f 12

ename l po i n t s t ha t you obs e r v ed M r . Johnson do i ng , wha t 13

conc e r ns d i d you ha v e abou t t he p r oc edu r e s unde r wh i ch 14

he wa s do i ng t ha t ? 15

He wa s s e d a t i ng t h e ho r s e w i t hou t s up e r v i s i on , 16 A .

t h a t wa s a c on c e r n . He wa s no t f l o a t i ng t h e t e e t h , h e 17

wa s p e r f o r m i ng odon t op l a s t y , wh i c h i s , b y t h e 18

d e f i n i t i on we ' r e u s i ng i n t h i s c ou r t i s no t t h e 19

p r o c e du r e h e wa s p e r f o r m i ng , e v e n t hough h e c a l l e d i t 20

t oo t h f l o a t i ng . 21

D i d you ha v e an ov e r a l l a s s e s smen t o f whe t he r 22 Q .

he , t ha t pe r son wa s qua l i f i ed t o f l oa t t e e t h o r pe r f o r m 23

o t he r o r t hodon t i c p r oc edu r e s? 24

He wa s no t qu a l i f i e d .25 A .

167

Ba s ed on you r e xpe r i enc e f r om r e v i ew i ng t he 1 Q .

l i t e r a t u r e c a s e s you ' v e s e en and t he wo r k done by 2

non - v e t e r i na r y equ i ne den t a l p r a c t i t i one r s you ha v e 3

obs e r v ed , do you ha v e an op i n i on on whe t he r 4

non - v e t e r i na r y equ i ne den t a l p r a c t i t i one r s c an pe r f o r m 5

t oo t h f l oa t i ng w i t hou t v e t e r i na r y supe r v i s i on? 6

No , t h e y c a nno t . 7 A .

I s t he r e any o f f i c i a l s t a t emen t you ' r e awa r e o f 8 Q .

t ha t de a l s w i t h t he c i r cums t anc e s unde r wh i ch a , a 9

supe r v i s i on o f a v e t e r i na r y pa t i en t i s r equ i r ed? 10

Sp e c i f i c a l l y w i t h e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y o r wh a t 11 A .

p e r s p e c t i v e ? 12

Spe c i f i c a l l y w i t h equ i ne den t i s t r y . 13 Q .

Th e r e ' s s e v e r a l p r o f e s s i on a l e t h i c a l po s i t i on 14 A .

s t a t eme n t s . Th e AVMA s t a t e s t h a t a l l d e n t a l p r o c e du r e s 15

a r e a p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i n a r y me d i c i n e . Th e AAEP s t a t e s 16

t h a t d e n t a l p r o c e du r e s a r e t h e p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i n a r y 17

me d i c i n e t o b e p e r f o r me d b y v e t e r i n a r i a n s on l y . 18

Howe v e r , i n s t a t e s wh e r e t h e l aw a l l ows , t h e y s a y t h a t , 19

t h a t l i c e n s e d v e t e r i n a r y t e c hn i c i a n s c a n b e a l l owe d t o 20

f l o a t t e e t h und e r t h e d i r e c t s up e r v i s i on , o r a c t u a l l y 21

i t ' s i mme d i a t e s up e r v i s i on o f a v e t e r i n a r i a n . Th e 22

Ame r i c a n Ve t e r i n a r y De n t a l Co l l e g e s t a t e s t h a t a l l 23

odon t op l a s t y p r o c e du r e s a r e a v e t e r i n a r y on l y t a s k . 24

Wha t con t i nu i ng educ a t i ona l r e sou r c e s a r e 25 Q .

168

a v a i l ab l e t o v e t e r i na r i ans who de v e l op an i n t e r e s t i n 1

equ i ne den t i s t r y? 2

Th e r e ' s bo t h d i d a c t i c l e c t u r e s a nd we t l a b s 3 A .

a v a i l a b l e . 4

Wha t a r e some o f t he common p r ov i de r s o f 5 Q .

con t i nu i ng educ a t i on i n t h i s a r e a? 6

Ame r i c a n As s o c i a t i on o f Equ i n e P r a c t i t i on e r s i s 7 A .

p r ob a b l y t h e o r g a n i z a t i on t h a t p r o v i d e s t h e ma j o r i t y o r 8

t h e l a r g e s t v o l ume o f e qu i n e me d i c a l e du c a t i on i n t h e 9

wo r l d . So t h e y do p r o v i d e a d e n t a l , d e n t a l c on t i nu i ng 10

e du c a t i on . Th e AVMA p r o v i d e s d e n t a l e du c a t i on . 11

Th e r e ' s p r i v a t e C p r o v i d e r s . 12

Le t ' s t a l k abou t t he AAEP f i r s t . A r e AAEP 13 Q .

p r oc e ed i ngs open t o non - v e t e r i na r i ans i n t e r e s t ed i n 14

den t a l p r a c t i c e? 15

Op e n t o? Th e l e v e l o f t h e i n s t r u c t i on i s don e 16 A .

a t a v e t e r i n a r y l e v e l . Who a t t e nd s , I gu e s s , i s - - I 17

don ' t k now who a t t e nd s . Bu t t h e l e v e l o f i n s t r u c t i on 18

i s d e s i gn e d f o r v e t e r i n a r i a n s . 19

Wha t c e r t i f y i ng sou r c e s a r e t he r e f o r 20 Q .

v e t e r i na r y med i c a l doc t o r s who de v e l op an i n t e r e s t i n a 21

pa r t i cu l a r a r e a o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne? 22

You c a n qu a l i f y a s a s p e c i a l i s t . You h a v e t o 23 A .

b e a memb e r o f a n AVMA r e c ogn i z e d s p e c i a l t y c o l l e g e t o 24

u s e t h e t i t l e s p e c i a l i s t . So a n y on e c l a i m i ng t h e t i t l e 25

169

o f d e n t i s t , i n mo s t s t a t e s l e g a l l y a nd f r om a n e t h i c a l 1

p r o f e s s i on a l s t a ndpo i n t , a n y on e u s i ng t h e t i t l e d e n t i s t 2

i s s t a t i ng t h a t t h e y a r e a d i p l oma t o f t h e Ame r i c a n 3

Ve t e r i n a r y De n t a l Co l l e g e . So t h a t wou l d b e t h e 4

h i gh e s t l e v e l o f s p e c i a l t y c e r t i f i c a t i on . Ag a i n , 5

v e t e r i n a r y d e n t i s t r y c e r t i f i e s a d v a n c e d t r a i n i ng a nd 6

k now l e dg e f o r g e n e r a l p r a c t i t i on e r s o r p r a c t i t i on e r s 7

w i t h a f o c u s on d e n t i s t r y . 8

I s t he r e a r e cogn i z ed spe c i a l i z a t i on i n 9 Q .

v e t e r i na r y den t i s t r y a t t h i s po i n t ?10

F o r e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y ? 11 A .

Fo r gene r a l den t i s t r y . 12 Q .

Ye s . 13 A .

And t ha t wou l d be t h r ough t he Ame r i c an 14 Q .

Ve t e r i na r y Den t a l Co l l ege? 15

We l l , i t ' s a f o r ma l t r a i n i ng p r og r am . 16 A .

A l l r i gh t . I s t he r e cu r r en t l y a r e cogn i z ed 17 Q .

spe c i a l t y f o r equ i ne v e t e r i na r y den t i s t r y? 18

I n t h e Ame r i c a n Ve t e r i n a r y De n t a l Co l l e g e , no , 19 A .

bu t t h a t i s i n p r og r e s s r i gh t now . 20

App r ox i ma t e l y how many c and i da t e s a r e t he r e f o r 21 Q .

t ha t spe c i a l t y i n t he coun t r y? 22

I n t h e c oun t r y ? 23 A .

Uh - huh . 24 Q .

On t h e l i s t t h a t ' s b e i ng r e v i ewe d r i gh t now , 25 A .

170

a bou t , I t h i n k , 25 p e op l e a r e i n c l ud e d on t h e i n i t i a l 1

l i s t , a nd t h a t w i l l p r ob a b l y b e r e du c e d t o t e n f ound i ng 2

memb e r s . 3

Whe r e do you s t and i n t e r ms o f c and i da c y f o r 4 Q .

t ha t ? 5

I ' m on t h e l i s t . I ' m on t h a t l i s t . 6 A .

A l l r i gh t . You men t i oned e a r l i e r t he I AED . 7 Q .

Wha t f am i l i a r i t y do you ha v e w i t h t he I AED?8

My f am i l i a r i t y i s t h r ough d i s c u s s i on s w i t h 9 A .

memb e r s a nd wh a t I r e a d on t h e I n t e r n e t . No f o r ma l 10

f am i l i a r i t y w i t h t h em - - o r a s s o c i a t i on . 11

A r e you f am i l i a r w i t h t he I AED c e r t i f i c a t i on 12 Q .

p r oc e s s?13

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , I ' m go i ng t o ob j e c t . I 14

don ' t s e e how any o f t h i s i n f o r ma t i on i s r e l e v an t t o 15

t he c a s e a t hand . 16

MR . FROWNFELTER : We l l , I AED c e r t i f i c a t i on i s wha t 17

many o f t he t oo t h f l oa t e r s who ho l d t hems e l v e s ou t a s 18

qua l i f i ed p r o f e s s i ona l s , t ha t ' s whe r e t he y c l a i m t o ge t 19

t he i r qua l i f i c a t i ons , and I t h i nk i t ' s r e l e v an t t o show 20

t he r e l a t i v e r i go r o f v e t e r i na r y den t a l c e r t i f i c a t i on 21

and t he c e r t i f i c a t i on t ha t ' s o f f e r ed by t he I AED . 22

THE COURT : I s i t a l l eged t ha t Ms . G r a y ha s t h i s 23

I AED c e r t i f i c a t i on o r i s c l a i m i ng t ha t ? I s t ha t 24

a l l eged? 25

171

MR . FROWNFELTER : No t t o my know l edge . 1

THE COURT : I s t ha t a l l eged? 2

MR . ROLAND : No . 3


MR . FROWNFELTER : Ok a y .5

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) A r e you f am i l i a r w i t h t he 6 Q .

Ac ademy t he Equ i ne Den t i s t r y i n I daho? 7

Ye s , I am . 8 A .

Wha t do you know abou t i t and i t s p r og r am? 9 Q .

I t ' s t h e numb e r on e t r a i n i ng f a c i l i t y f o r t oo t h 10 A .

f l o a t e r s i n t e r n a t i on a l l y . 11

And wha t - - a r e you f am i l i a r w i t h t he sou r c e s 12 Q .

f r om wh i ch t ha t i ns t i t u t i on d r aws i t s cu r r i cu l um? 13

Ye s , I ' m f am i l i a r w i t h t h e i r s ou r c e s a nd I ' m 14 A .

f am i l i a r w i t h wh a t t h a t don ' t u s e . 15

Wha t a r e you ' r e r e f e r r i ng t o t ha t t he y don ' t 16 Q .

us e? 17

Th e y don ' t u s e s c i e n t i f i c a l l y r e v i ewe d d a t a . 18 A .

Th e i r i n s t r u c t o r s a r e no t c e r t i f i e d , c e r t i f i e d t h r ough 19

t h e v e t e r i n a r y p r o f e s s i on . 20

MR . ROLAND : Ob j e c t i on , You r Hono r , I don ' t t h i nk 21

t ha t a f ounda t i on ha s be en e s t ab l i shed t ha t t he w i t ne s s 22

ha s a pe r sona l know l edge o f any o f t h i s .23

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ' l l a s k h i m a f ounda t i on 24

que s t i on . 25

172

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t , I ' l l sus t a i n t he ob j e c t i on . 1

You ma y p r oc e ed w i t h a f ounda t i on que s t i on i f you w i sh .2


( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) A r e you f am i l i a r w i t h t he 4 Q .

wo r k o f Da l e J e f f r e y? 5

Ye s . 6 A .

Wha t f am i l i a r i t y w i t h h i s wo r k do you ha v e? 7 Q .

I ' v e r e a d s ome o f h i s , r e a d a boo k o f h i s a nd 8 A .

s ome o f h i s ma t e r i a l s t h a t h e ' s pub l i s h e d . 9

Do you know , a r e you f am i l i a r w i t h t he r o l e o f 10 Q .

Da l e J e f f r e y and t he t e a ch i ngs o f t he non - v e t e r i na r y 11

equ i ne den t i s t r y commun i t y? 12

He , h e ' s t h e f ound e r o f t h e Ac a d emy o f Equ i n e 13 A .

De n t i s t r y , a nd h e ' s a l s o c r e a t e d a ph i l o s oph y o f a n 14

i d e a l ho r s e c on f i r ma t i on i n t h e mou t h t h a t do e s no t 15

e x i s t i n ho r s e s . 16

Wha t ' s t he na t u r e o f t he ph i l osophy t ha t 17 Q .

M r . J e f f r e y t e a che s? 18

Th e n a t u r e , h e c a l l s i t a S i mu l t a n e ou s Ce n t r i c 19 A .

Oc c l u s i on o f t h e T e e t h , wh e r e a l l o f t h e ho r s e ' s t e e t h 20

a r e i n c on t a c t a t t h e s ame t i me . He a l s o c a l l s i t a 21

t h r e e - po i n t b a l a n c e , a nd t h a t c ond i t i on do e s no t h a pp e n 22

i n ho r s e s . And nume r ou s t e x t boo k s d e s c r i b e t h e no r ma l 23

o c c l u s i on o f a ho r s e , a nd t h a t ' s no t i t . 24

A l l r i gh t , how s c i en t i f i c a l l y v a l i d do you 25 Q .

173

cons i de r i t s ph i l osophy t o be? 1

Sc i e n t i f i c a l l y v a l i d? 2 A .

Uh - huh . 3 Q .

I t ' s a ph i l o s oph y ; i t h a s no s c i e n t i f i c b a s i s . 4 A .



documen t ? 7

Ye s . Th i s i s Da l e J e f f r e y ' s t h e s i s on t h e 8 A .

" O r a l B i ome c h a n i c s o f De n t a l Equ i l i b r a t i on i n t h e 9

Equ i d i e . " 10

And i s t h i s , i s t ha t a comp l e t e copy o r i s t ha t 11 Q .

e x c e r p t s? 12

I t ' s e x c e r p t s . 13 A .

And who chos e t hos e e x c e r p t s? 14 Q .

I d i d . 15 A .

And f o r wha t pu r pos e d i d you choos e t he 16 Q .

e x c e r p t s you ha v e t he r e? 17

Ba s i c a l l y t o d emon s t r a t e h i s ph i l o s oph i c a l 18 A .

i d e a s t h a t do no t c on f o r m w i t h t h e s c i e n t i f i c r e s e a r c h . 19

A l l r i gh t , wou l d you t u r n t o t he f i r s t s e c t i on 20 Q .

you ' v e h i gh l i gh t ed t he r e . 21

( W i t n e s s Comp l i e s ) . Th i s i s j u s t a b r i e f 22 A .

b i og r a ph y o f h i m . 23

On t he ne x t page whe r e you beg i n , wha t 24 Q .

s e c t i on - - 25

174

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , I ' m go i ng t o ob j e c t , 1

be c aus e I be l i e v e t he Pe t i t i one r i s t r y i ng t o r e ad i n t o 2

t he r e co r d wha t o t he r w i s e wou l d be e x c l uded by 3

i n t r oduc i ng i t a s an e xh i b i t .4

MR . FROWNFELTER : You r Hono r , t he , t he s e a r e some 5

e x c e r p t s f r om t he f ounde r o f t he s choo l wh i ch t he 6

de f endan t a t t ended , and one o f t he l e ad i ng 7

p r a c t i t i one r s o f t h i s a r t . And t he w i t ne s s ha s 8

commen t ed t ha t he t h i nk s t ha t t he ph i l osophy o f t h i s 9

pe r son ha s no s c i en t i f i c v a l i d i t y , and we ' r e go i ng t o 10

a s k h i m t o r e ad some e x c e r p t s wh i ch demons t r a t e t ha t 11

l a c k o f v a l i d i t y and r e spond t o t hem f r om a s c i en t i f i c 12

po i n t o f v i ew . 13

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , t h i s documen t , I be l i e v e , 14

a r r i v ed i n my i n box a t 3 : 00 a . m . y e s t e r da y mo r n i ng . 15

I t i s a pa r t i a l documen t , no t a f u l l documen t so we ' v e 16

had no oppo r t un i t y t o r e v i ew t he en t i r e documen t f o r 17

coun t e r e x amp l e s o r e v en adequa t e c r os s - e x am i na t i on . 18


( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) I s i t you r con t en t i on 20 Q .

t ha t a l a y p r a c t i t i one r c anno t e f f e c t i v e l y pe r f o r m 21

f l oa t i ng ; t ha t i s t o s a y t he r a sp i ng o f ename l po i n t s 22

o f f o f ho r s e t e e t h? 23

I wou l d s a y i t ' s my c on t e n t i on t h a t , t h a t a 24 A .

d i a gno s i s n e e d s t o b e ma d e wh i c h i nd i c a t e s t h e f l o a t i ng 25

175

o f t h e t e e t h . So I t h i n k y ou c ou l d t r a i n s ome bod y t o 1

r a s p t h e e n ame l e dg e s o f a t oo t h , do i ng t h a t ph y s i c a l l y 2

a nd do i ng no t h i ng e l s e i s a n a l mo s t i mpo s s i b l e t a s k , 3

y ou w i l l a l wa y s g e t t o t h e d e n t i n e . So i f y ou 4

und e r s t a nd t h e s t r u c t u r e o f t h e t oo t h , s a y , j u s t f i l i ng 5

e n ame l i s no t p r a c t i c a l . I t ' s no t wh a t h a pp e n s . 6

Th a t ' s wh e r e we r un i n t o p r ob l ems , i s wh e n h e g e t i n t o 7

t h e d e n t i n e . Be c a u s e t h e e n ame l ' s t h e on l y i n e r t 8

t i s s u e i n t h e ho r s e ' s t oo t h . Th e ho r s e ' s t oo t h i s a 9

v e r y l i v i ng o r g a n . So i s i t po s s i b l e t o f l o a t t h e 10

e n ame l a nd t ou c h no t h i ng e l s e , no . 11

Med i c a l l y spe a k i ng , c an t oo t h f l oa t i ng , t ha t i s 12 Q .

t he f i l i ng awa y o f t hos e i ne r t ename l sou r c e s , be 13

s epa r a t ed ou t , i n you r op i n i on , f r om t he p r a c t i c e o f 14

den t i s t r y a s t o t he l i v i ng t i s sue o f t he mou t h? 15

No . I t i s a n odon t op l a s t i c p r o c e du r e , a nd 16 A .

p r o f e s s i on a l l y i t i s a l wa y s i n c l ud e d i n odon t op l a s t y . 17

I t ' s no t - - wh e n p r o f e s s i on a l s s p e a k o f t h e p e r f o r ma n c e 18

o f t h a t p r o c e du r e , t h e y do no t s p l i t i t f r om 19

odon t op l a s t y . 20

Wha t adv an t age s doe s a v e t e r i na r i an b r i ng t o 21 Q .

t he p r oc e s s o f pe r f o r m i ng t ha t odon t op l a s t i c p r oc edu r e 22

t ha t a l a y equ i ne p r a c t i t i one r c anno t ? 23

Th e a d v a n t a g e s , f i r s t , t h e s e d a t i on a b i l i t i e s , 24 A .

b e c a u s e y ou h a v e t o h a v e s e d a t i on t o p r op e r l y e x am i n e 25

176

a nd t o p e r f o r m t h e p r o c e du r e s . And t h a t ' s , bo t h , a s 1

I ' v e po i n t e d ou t , a s huma n s a f e t y c on c e r n a s we l l a s a 2

ho r s e we l f a r e c on c e r n . Ra r e l y i s t h e e n ame l po i n t s t h e 3

on l y c ond i t i on i n t h e ho r s e ' s mou t h , s o t h a t t h e ho r s e 4

n e e d s t o b e a dd r e s s e d . Th e who l e o r a l c a v i t y n e e d s t o 5

b e a dd r e s s e d du r i ng t h a t d e n t a l p r o c e du r e . Th e who l e 6

ho r s e n e e d s t o b e a dd r e s s e d a s a c on s e qu e n c e o f t h a t 7

d e n t a l p r o c e du r e , a nd t h a t i s a l l b a s e d on a n 8

e x am i n a t i on wh i c h l e a d s t o a d i a gno s i s , a nd y ou t r e a t 9

t h e i nd i c a t e d d i a gno s e s . You j u s t don ' t p e r f o r m 10

p r o c e du r e s w i t hou t a d i a gno s i s . 11

D i d you he a r t he t e s t i mony du r i ng Doc t o r 12 Q .

Le i gh r ' s t e s t i mony abou t i n j u r i e s happen i ng t o t he 13

ho r s e wh i l e he wa s pe r f o r m i ng p r oc edu r e s? 14

Ye s , I d i d . 15 A .

Do i n j u r i e s o f t he k i nd he wa s de s c r i b i ng 16 Q .

happen du r i ng t he compe t en t pe r f o r manc e o f , o f 17

o r t hodon t i c p r oc edu r e s by qua l i f i ed v e t e r i na r i ans?18

I t h i n k t h e y c a n . Do t h e y , I ' v e no t p e r s on a l l y 19 A .

s e e n t h a t , bu t I t h i n k t h e y c a n . An y bod y who s a y s t h e y 20

h a v e no t h a d a c omp l i c a t i on h a s n ' t don e e nough o f t ho s e 21

p r o c e du r e s . 22

Wha t adv an t age doe s be i ng a v e t e r i na r i an ha v e 23 Q .

when a c c i den t s o r i n j u r i e s o f t ha t na t u r e oc cu r ? 24

Ca n y ou r e s t a t e t h e qu e s t i on . 25 A .

177

Wha t adv an t age i s i t t o ha v e a v e t e r i na r i an 1 Q .

pe r f o r m i ng t he p r oc edu r e when a c c i den t s o r i n j u r i e s o f 2

t ha t na t u r e oc cu r ? 3

Ve t e r i n a r i a n s a r e s p e c i f i c a l l y t r a i n e d t o 4 A .

a dd r e s s c omp l i c a t i on s a nd eme r g e n c y p r o c e du r e s . 5

Do you be l i e v e t ha t l a y equ i ne den t a l 6 Q .

p r a c t i t i one r s , i f p r ope r l y t r a i ned , c an s a f e l y pe r f o r m 7

t oo t h f l oa t i ng w i t hou t v e t e r i na r y supe r v i s i on? 8

No . 9 A .

I s t he r e any ba s i s you c an i den t i f y a s t o why , 10 Q .

f r om a med i c a l s t andpo i n t , t he r e ' s a ne ed t o s e t 11

s t anda r ds f o r who i s qua l i f i ed t o pe r f o r m t oo t h 12

f l oa t i ng? 13

Me d i c a l b a s i s ? We ' r e s e e i ng a n i n c r e a s e d 14 A .

i n c i d e n t o f i a t r og e n i c d ama g e t o ho r s e s . 15

I a t r ogen i c - - 16 Q .

Me a n i ng t h e p r a c t i t i on e r c a u s e s t h a t a s a 17 A .

s e qu e l a t o a l l t h e powe r i n s t r ume n t s wh i c h we s e e 18

wo r k i ng t oda y . 19

Do you be l i e v e t ha t t he r e ' s a ba s i s f o r t he 20 Q .

l eg i s l a t u r e t o s e t s t anda r ds f o r who c an pe r f o r m equ i ne 21

den t a l s e r v i c e s , i nc l ud i ng t oo t h f l oa t i ng? 22

MR . ROLAND : Ob j e c t i ons , You r Hono r , i t c a l l s f o r 23

t he w i t ne s s t o spe cu l a t e on t he u l t i ma t e ou t come o f t he 24

c a s e . 25

178

THE COURT : Sus t a i ned .1

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER) Do you be l i e v e t ha t t he r e 2 Q .

i s a med i c a l ba s i s? 3

THE COURT : I s t ha t you r que s t i on , M r . F r own f e l t e r ?4

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ' m t h i nk i ng . 5

THE COURT : I ' m so r r y . 6

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) We ' v e he a r d t he t e s t i - - 7 Q .

we ' v e he a r d , I don ' t know , i f i t ' s t e s t i mony o r 8

a r gumen t t ha t de s c r i bed t oo t h f l oa t i ng a s r ou t i ne 9

an i ma l husband r y . Do you cons i de r t oo t h f l oa t i ng t o be 10

r ou t i ne an i ma l husband r y? 11

I t h i n k t h e u s e o f t h e wo r d r ou t i n e i s n ' t 12 A .

a pp r op r i a t e i n a n y me d i c a l p r o c e du r e . I ' v e s t a t e d t i me 13

a nd a g a i n , y ou ma k e a d i a gno s i s , t h e n y ou do a 14

p r o c e du r e b a s e d on t h e i nd i c a t i on s o f t h a t d i a gno s i s . 15

So no , I do no t b e l i e v e i t i s a pp r op r i a t e t o do a n y 16

p r o c e du r e on a r ou t i n e b a s i s . 17

A r e t he r e med i c a l r e a sons why a s t anda r d shou l d 18 Q .

be s e t unde r wh i ch equ i ne den t a l s e r v i c e s i nc l ud i ng 19

t oo t h f l oa t i ng c an on l y be pe r f o r med by l i c ens ed 20

v e t e r i na r i ans? 21

Me d i c a l r e a s on? 22 A .

Ye s . 23 Q .

Be c a u s e , b e c a u s e I don ' t t h i n k y ou c a n s e p a r a t e 24 A .

d e n t i s t r y f r om t h e r e s t o f t h e o r a l c a v i t y , a nd y ou 25

179

c a n ' t s e p a r a t e i t f r om t h e p a t i e n t . Th e r e f o r e a 1

v e t e r i n a r i a n n e e d s t o e v a l u a t e t h e o r a l a nd d e n t a l 2

c ond i t i on s w i t h r e s p e c t i v e o f t h e r e s t o f t h e p a t i e n t 3

a s a who l e . Ba s e d on t h a t I don ' t t h i n k y ou c a n 4

s e p a r a t e t h i s . 5

Ok a y . 6 Q .



9


BY MR . ROLAND :11

Doc t o r Ga l l owa y , you had j us t s a i d some t h i ng t o 12 Q .

t he e f f e c t o f you d i dn ' t be l i e v e t he wo r d r ou t i ne had 13

anyp l a c e i n med i c a l pa r l anc e . I c an ' t r emembe r how you 14

ph r a s ed i t . Wou l d you m i nd r e s t a t i ng t he po i n t you 15

we r e ma k i ng abou t . . . 16

I t h i n k t h e wo r d r ou t i n e h a s t h e p e r c e p t i on o f 17 A .

c a u s e s no h a r m , a nd I t h i n k t h a t ' s i n a pp r op r i a t e . Mo s t 18

o f t h e t h i ng s we do i n me d i c i n e t h e r e a r e c omp l i c a t i on s 19

i n v o l v e d . So wh e n y ou ' r e ma r k e t i ng s ome t h i ng a s 20

r ou t i n e , I t h i n k y ou ' r e m i s r e p r e s e n t i ng t h e p r o c e du r e s 21

t h a t we a c t u a l l y do . So no , I don ' t t h i n k t h e wo r d 22

r ou t i n e - - I don ' t t h i n k we do a n y r ou t i n e d e n t a l 23

p r o c e du r e s . We d i a gno s e a p r ob l em , a nd we p e r f o r m a n 24

i nd i c a t e d t r e a t me n t b a s e d on t h a t d i a gno s i s . 25

180

So how do you e xp l a i n you r de s c r i p t i on o f you r 1 Q .

encoun t e r w i t h Co l o r s a s a r ou t i ne den t a l e x am? 2

I t wa s a r ou t i n e d e n t a l e x am i n a t i on . I 3 A .

e x am i n e d t h e a n i ma l . Ba s e d on t h a t e x am i n a t i on I wou l d 4

ma k e a d i a gno s i s a nd I wou l d t r e a t t h e a n i ma l 5

a pp r op r i a t e l y . So I wa s no t do i ng a p r o c e du r e i n a 6

r ou t i n e f a s h i on , I wa s do i ng a r ou t i n e e x am i n a t i on . 7

So t o b r i ng i t k i nd o f i n t o human t e r ms , i t ' s 8 Q .

one t h i ng t o do a r ou t i ne e x am i na t i on o f you r 9

f i nge r na i l s , bu t t he r e wou l d be no r ou t i ne c l i pp i ng o f 10

you r f i nge r na i l s , you ha v e t o l ook a t t hem , ma k e su r e 11

t he y ne ed c l i pp i ng ; i s t ha t wha t you ' r e s a y i ng? 12

I don ' t t h i n k t h a t ' s a me d i c a l p r o c e du r e s o I 13 A .

don ' t h a v e a n op i n i on . 14

Ok a y . I n t he l i t e r a t u r e t ha t you ' v e 15 Q .

r e v i ewed - - l e t me ba c k up j us t a s e cond . 16

How much do you cha r ge f o r an e x am? 17

F o r a n e x am i n a t i on? 18 A .

Ye s . 19 Q .

I t ' s i n t h e $55 r a ng e . 20 A .

Ok a y , i s t ha t , do peop l e b r i ng t he i r ho r s e s t o 21 Q .

you o r do you go t o t hem? 22

I c a n do e i t h e r . 23 A .

I s i t t he s ame p r i c e e i t he r wa y? 24 Q .

Ye s . 25 A .

181

Ok a y . So $55 j us t t o ge t you i n t he doo r ? 1 Q .

Th a t ' s t h e e x am i n a t i on f e e . 2 A .

Ok a y . Wha t a r e some o f t he po t en t i a l cha r ge s 3 Q .

t ha t cou l d be t a c k ed on t o t he r ou t i ne e x am i na t i on f e e? 4

F a r m c a l l s . 5 A .

Wha t wa s t ha t ? 6 Q .

F a r m c a l l . So i f we go t o t h e f a r m , t h e r e ' s a 7 A .

f a r m c a l l f e e . 8

How much i s t ha t ? 9 Q .

De p e nd s on how f a r t h e y a r e . I ' d s a y we s t a r t 10 A .

a t $45 a nd go up t h e r e . I ' d a l s o l i k e t o s a y t h a t I 11

don ' t do my b i l l i ng s s o t h e s e a r e a l l e s t i ma t e s . 12

Ok a y . 13 Q .

So . . . I h a v e a n o f f i c e ma n a g e r t h a t b i l l s f o r 14 A .

me . 15

Bu t you s t a r t a t $45 t o do a f a r m c a l l ? 16 Q .

No . We l l , y e s , we do . Be c a u s e i f i t ' s mo r e 17 A .

c on v e n i e n t f o r y ou t o hoo k y ou r t r a i l e r up t h a n i t i s 18

f o r me t o c r o s s t h e r o a d - - I ma k e mon e y s e e i ng 19

a n i ma l s , I don ' t ma k e mon e y d r i v i ng a t r u c k . So t h a t ' s 20

a l l a c on v e n i e n c e i s s u e . 21

Ok a y . So i t ' s a hund r ed do l l a r s j us t t o ge t 22 Q .

you ou t t o a f a r m and t o do an e x am . Then i f t he r e ' s 23

some t h i ng t ha t a c t ua l l y ne eds t o be t r e a t ed wh i l e 24

you ' r e t he r e , i s t ha t an add i t i ona l cha r ge? 25

182

Ye s . 1 A .

And l e t ' s s a y you de c i ded t ha t sha r p ename l 2 Q .

po i n t s ne eded t o be f l oa t ed . Do you ha v e an e s t i ma t i on 3

abou t how much t ha t wou l d cos t ? 4

Po i n t s , $30 . So I c h a r g e a bou t 30 bu c k s f o r 5 A .

f l o a t i ng s h a r p e n ame l po i n t s . 6

Ok a y . Bu t f o r t he pe r son who ' s r e c e i v i ng t ha t 7 Q .

s e r v i c e a t t he i r f a r m , i t wou l d be a t l e a s t 130? 8

I f t h a t ' s t h e ma t h y ou ' r e c om i ng up w i t h , y e s . 9 A .

Ok a y . And t hen t he r e ' s t he po t en t i a l f o r e v en 10 Q .

add i t i ona l cha r ge s?11

Ba s e d on t h e c ond i t i on , y e s . I t h i n k t h a t ' s 12 A .

how a v e t e r i n a r y o r me d i c a l f e e s go . 13

So ha v e you l ook ed a t any s t ud i e s on t he i mpa c t 14 Q .

o f t he s e so r t s o f f e e s on an i ma l owne r s? 15

No . No s p e c i f i c s t ud i e s I c a n r e c a l l . 16 A .

You t a l k ed a l i t t l e b i t e a r l i e r abou t t he 17 Q .

g r ow i ng i mpo r t anc e o f r ad i o l ogy . How much wou l d a 18

t yp i c a l r ad i o l og i c a l e x am cos t ? 19

I t d e p e nd s on t h e s e r i e s we ' r e do i ng , s o I 20 A .

don ' t k now . I wou l d gu e s s t h a t t h e y wou l d s t a r t i n t h e 21

$125 r a ng e . 22

Ok a y . And t ha t ' s on t op o f t he o t he r cha r ge s? 23 Q .

Ye s . 24 A .

Ok a y . So you s a i d i t wou l d s t a r t i n t ha t 25 Q .

183

r ange ; wha t cou l d i t go up t o f o r r ad i o l ogy? 1

F o r r a d i o l og y i n g e n e r a l i t go e s - - i t d e p e nd s 2 A .

wh a t s t ud i e s y ou ' r e p e r f o r m i ng . I f y ou l oo k a t 3

y e a r l i ng s go i ng t o t h e c a n a l c e l l i n Ke n t u c k y e v e r y 4

y e a r , t ho s e own e r s s p e nd 5 o r $600 s hoo t i ng X - r a y s on 5

t ho s e ho r s e s . So i t d e p e nd s on t h e s t ud i e s . I t a l l 6

b a s e d on wh a t s t ud y i s p e r f o r me d . 7

Do you cha r ge add i t i ona l f o r s eda t i v e s t ha t you 8 Q .

us e? 9

Ye s , we do . Th a t ' s a p r o f e s s i on a l s e r v i c e , we 10 A .

c h a r g e f o r p r o f e s s i on a l s e r v i c e s . 11

And abou t how much wou l d a r ou t i ne s eda t i on 12 Q .

cos t ? 13

I n t h e $40 r a ng e . 14 A .

Tha t ' s a l l add i ng up . 15 Q .

I s i t you r unde r s t and i ng t ha t t he mo r e 16

e xpens i v e s e r v i c e s ge t , t he l e s s l i k e l y owne r s a r e t o 17

p r ov i de t hos e s e r v i c e s f o r t he i r an i ma l s? 18

No , t h a t ' s no t my und e r s t a nd i ng . 19 A .

So an i ma l owne r s w i l l j u s t con t i nue t o pa y 20 Q .

howe v e r much t he y ha v e t o? 21

I t h i n k t h a t ' s a d e c i s i on t h e own e r ma k e s . 22 A .

Th e y p r i o r i t i z e t h e i r s p e nd i ng h a b i t s t h e wa y t h e y do ; 23

t h a t i s no t my d e c i s i on . A l l f o r a d i a gno s i s a nd a 24

t r e a t me n t p l a n , t h e y d e t e r m i n e wh e t h e r o r no t t h e y wa n t 25

184

t o p r o c e e d . 1

And none o f you r c l i en t s e v e r bu l k a t t he 2 Q .

e xpens e? 3

I wou l d s a y t h a t e v e r y c l i e n t l oo k s a t t h e 4 A .

mon e y . Do t h e y bu l k a t i t , I don ' t k now . I o f f e r a 5

t r e a t me n t p l a n . Th e y ma k e t h e d e c i s i on a s t o wh e t h e r 6

we t r e a t o r no t . 7

How f r equen t l y wou l d you s a y you ma k e a v i s i t 8 Q .

and de t e r m i ne t ha t f u r t he r den t a l c a r e i s no t 9

ne c e s s a r y .10

I don ' t h a v e a n y numb e r s . I k now t h a t t h a t h a s 11 A .

happened . 12

Wou l d you s a y t ha t i t happens onc e a we e k? 13 Q .


So you c an ' t na r r ow i t down a t a l l ? Onc e a 15 Q .

mon t h? 16

No , bu t I c a n r e c a l l c a s e s wh e r e I ' v e e x am i n e d 17 A .

a n a n i ma l a nd s a i d , " No d e n t a l wo r k i s n e e d e d t od a y ; we 18

w i l l r e - e x am i n e i n s i x mon t h s . " So I c a n r ememb e r 19

t ho s e c a s e s . 20

You men t i oned a coup l e o f t i me s t ha t t he r e ' s an 21 Q .

i nc r e a s e i nc i denc e o f i n j u r y a s a r e su l t o f powe r t oo l s 22

be com i ng mo r e p r e v a l en t . Wha t ' s you r ba s i s f o r t ha t 23

a s s e r t i on? 24

My d i s c u s s i on s w i t h v e t e r i n a r i a n s who r e c e i v e 25 A .

185

r e f e r r a l s f o r a d v a n c e d d e n t a l p r o c e du r e s . 1

Ok a y , so t he r e ' s no s t udy t ha t ' s be en done 2 Q .

demons t r a t i ng t h i s? 3

Th e r e ' s no s t ud y . 4 A .

No i mpe r i a l e v i denc e wha t soe v e r ? 5 Q .

No . 6 A .

So i t ' s j us t an op i n i on? 7 Q .

Ye s , t h a t i s my op i n i on . 8 A .

A r e you awa r e t ha t some peop l e f l oa t ho r s e s ' 9 Q .

t e e t h w i t hou t s eda t i on? 10

I am awa r e o f t h a t . 11 A .

We ' v e t a l k ed abou t whe r e f l oa t i ng f i t s i n t he 12 Q .

b r oade r p r a c t i c e o f equ i ne den t i s t r y . You s a i d i n you r 13

depos i t i on , " I ' m s a y i ng t ha t f l oa t i ng , i f you de f i ne 14

f l oa t i ng p r o f e s s i ona l l y , i s one sma l l p r oc edu r e i n t he 15

b i g un i v e r s e . " Do you s t i l l f i nd t ha t s t a t emen t t o be 16

a c cu r a t e? 17

I t i s on e p r o c e du r e i n v e t e r i n a r y d e n t i s t r y , 18 A .

y e s , a nd t h e r e a r e ma n y p r o c e du r e s i n v e t e r i n a r y 19


Ok a y . The v e r y ne x t answe r you ga v e a t you r 21 Q .

depos i t i on , and we we r e spe a k i ng i n t he con t e x t o f 22

con t i nu i ng educ a t i on e v en t s and whe t he r f l oa t i ng wa s 23

be i ng t augh t t he r e , you r r e spons e wa s t ha t t hos e e v en t s 24

wou l d no t ha v e be en t e a ch i ng spe c i f i c a l l y f l oa t i ng , 25

186

be c aus e t ha t i s a v e r y sma l l p r oc edu r e . I s t ha t s t i l l 1

a c cu r a t e t oda y? 2

Ye s , I j u s t a n swe r e d t h a t qu e s t i on b e c a u s e i t 3 A .

wou l d b e t a ugh t a s p a r t o f odon t op l a s t y . So i t wou l d 4

b e t a ugh t a s p a r t o f t h e odon t op l a s t y p r o c e du r e . We 5

wou l d no t b r e a k f l o a t i ng awa y f r om odon t op l a s t y i n a 6

p r o f e s s i on a l s e r v i c e . 7

You ha v en ' t done any i ndependen t r e s e a r ch on 8 Q .

j us t t oo t h f l oa t i ng , ha v e you? 9

No , I h a v e no t . 10 A .

And you ha v en ' t done any i ndependen t r e s e a r ch 11 Q .

on s t anda r ds o f c a r e r e l a t i ng t o t oo t h f l oa t i ng , ha v e 12

you? 13

No , I h a v e no t . 14 A .

And you ha v en ' t r e v i ewed any spe c i f i c a c adem i c 15 Q .

l i t e r a t u r e r ega r d i ng t he s t anda r d o f c a r e f o r t oo t h 16

f l oa t i ng? 17

S t a nd a r d o f c a r e , t h a t wou l d b e i n c l ud e d i n Bob 18 A .

Ba r a t t ' s p a p e r t h a t we p r e s e n t e d e a r l i e r . 19

So you ha v e a d i f f e r en t answe r t han you had a t 20 Q .

you r depos i t i on? A t you r depos i t i on you s a i d i n 21

r e spons e t o t he que s t i on , " Ha v e you r e v i ewed any 22

spe c i f i c a c adem i c l i t e r a t u r e r ega r d i ng t he s t anda r d o f 23

c a r e f o r t oo t h f l oa t i ng? " You r r e spons e wa s , " No , I ' v e 24

de f i ned t oo t h f l oa t i ng s t r i c t by t he v e t e r i na r y 25

187

de f i n i t i on . " 1

I s t ha t s t a t emen t s t i l l a c cu r a t e? 2

So t oo t h f l o a t i ng a l on e , y e s , t h a t i s a c c u r a t e . 3 A .

Too t h f l o a t i ng a s p a r t o f odon t op l a s t y , i t i s d i s c u s s e d 4

i n Bob Ba r a t t ' s p a p e r . 5

You ' v e ne v e r i n j u r ed a ho r s e f l oa t i ng i t s 6 Q .

t e e t h , ha v e you? 7

No t t h a t I c a n r ememb e r . 8 A .

A t you r depos i t i on I a s k ed t he que s t i on , " Ha v e 9 Q .

you pe r sona l l y encoun t e r ed an i n j u r y c aus ed by a 10

non - v e t e r i na r i an i n f l oa t i ng t e e t h? " You answe r ed , 11

" No t i n a non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t i ng . A 12

non - v e t e r i na r i an t r y i ng t o e x t r a c t a t oo t h , I ' v e 13

pe r sona l l y s e en t ha t , pe r sona l l y s e en m i sd i agnos i s . 14

So , f r om t he spe c i f i c p r oc edu r e o f f l oa t i ng , I don ' t 15

know , I c an ' t s a y spe c i f i c a l l y , no . " 16

I s t ha t s t i l l a c cu r a t e? 17

Th a t i s a c c u r a t e i f no t h i ng b e y ond f l o a t i ng t h e 18 A .

e n ame l i s don e . And I ' m s a y i ng t h a t i s no t p r a c t i c a l . 19

You s t i l l ha v en ' t s e en any a c adem i c a r t i c l e s 20 Q .

d i s cus s i ng i n j u r i e s c aus ed by non - v e t e r i na r i an 21

f l oa t e r s , ha v e you? 22

No . Tho s e a r e no t a c a d em i c a r t i c l e s . 23 A .

And you ' r e no t awa r e o f any s t ud i e s t ha t ha v e 24 Q .

add r e s s ed t he que s t i on o f non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r s 25

188

c aus i ng i n j u r i e s? 1

No . 2 A .

And so you r t e s t i mony wou l d s t i l l be t ha t t he 3 Q .

on l y i n f o r ma t i on you ha v e on t h i s i s ane cdo t a l , no t 4

f r om pe r sona l obs e r v a t i on o r e xpe r i enc e? 5

I n f o r ma t i on - - c a n y ou r e s t a t e t h e qu e s t i on . 6 A .

I n f o r ma t i on ba s ed on wha t ? 7

S t ud i e s t ha t add r e s s t he que s t i on o f 8 Q .

non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r s c aus i ng i n j u r i e s . 9

The r e a r e no s t ud i e s . 10 A .

And you ha v en ' t r e v i ewed any r e s e a r ch t ha t 11 Q .

sugge s t s t ha t i n j u r i e s t o ho r s e s t ha t ha v e be en s eda t ed 12

be f o r e t he i r t e e t h a r e f l oa t ed a r e mo r e l i k e l y t han 13

i n j u r i e s t o ho r s e s whos e , who ha v e no t be en s eda t ed 14

be f o r e t he i r t e e t h a r e be i ng f l oa t ed? 15

No . 16 A .

And you ' v e go t no pe r sona l obs e r v a t i on t ha t 17 Q .

non - s eda t ed o r uns eda t ed f l oa t i ng ha s r e su l t ed i n mo r e 18

i n j u r i e s? 19

No . 20 A .

Ha v e you be come awa r e o f any o t he r l i c ens ed 21 Q .

v e t s t ha t ha v e i n j u r ed an i ma l s p r ov i d i ng f l oa t i ng 22

s e r v i c e s? 23

O t he r t han t oda y , t h i s cou r t , no . 24 A .

Wou l d you cons i de r t he de s c r i p t i on t ha t 25 Q .

189

Doc t o r Le i gh r ga v e t oda y o f be i ng f l oa t i ng i n t he 1

p r o f e s s i ona l de f i n i t i on? 2

I t h i nk he wa s i nc l ud i ng odon t op l a s t y w i t h i n 3 A .

t ha t de f i n i t i on . 4

Ok a y . So i t wou l d no t ha v e be en s t r i c t l y 5 Q .

f l oa t i ng a c co r d i ng t o t he p r o f e s s i ona l de f i n i t i on? 6

No . 7 A .

A t you r depos i t i on you t e s t i f i ed t ha t i n 15 8 Q .

y e a r s o f v e t e r i na r y p r a c t i c e , you cou l d no t name one 9

spe c i f i c e x amp l e o f a ho r s e be i ng i n j u r ed a s a r e su l t 10

o f ba s i c f l oa t i ng ; i s t ha t s t i l l co r r e c t ? 11

Ye s . E x c e p t f o r t od a y . 12 A .

You e xp r e s s ed op i n i ons abou t non - v e t e r i na r i an 13 Q .

equ i ne den t a l a c adem i e s . Ha v e you a t t ended any o f 14

t hos e s choo l s? 15

No , I ha v e no t . 16 A .

Ha v e you obs e r v ed a t any o f t hos e s choo l s? 17 Q .

No . Thos e s choo l s a r e no t p r o f e s s i ona l l y 18 A .

r e cogn i z ed . 19

And you don ' t know wha t t e x t book s t he y a r e 20 Q .

cu r r en t l y us i ng , do you? 21

No , I do no t .22 A .

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , I ' v e go t an e xh i b i t , bu t 23

we ' r e i n a l i t t l e b i t o f a b i nd due t o t he l i m i t a t i on 24

o f Doc t o r Ga l l owa y ' s a v a i l ab i l i t y . 25

190

When I r e c e i v ed t he pa r t i a l e x c e r p t f r om Da l e 1

J e f f r e y ' s w r i t i ng , I d i d l oc a t e a copy o f t he s e cond 2

ed i t i on o f Equ i ne Den t i s t r y by Ba k e r and Ea s l e y , wh i ch 3

i nc l ude s s e v e r a l c i t a t i ons e i t he r t o i nd i v i dua l s t ha t 4

we r e a t t he Ac ademy o f Equ i ne Den t i s t r y a t t he t i me 5

t ha t t he y pub l i shed t he i t em t ha t wa s c i t ed i n t h i s 6

t e x t book , o r t he y a r e we l l known g r adua t e s o f t he 7

Ac ademy o f Equ i ne Den t i s t r y ; howe v e r , I wa s no t ab l e t o 8

ob t a i n t he 360 p l us page t e x t book t o p r ov i de . 9

So I ma y be ab l e t o l oc a t e a copy o f t he t e x t book 10

t o en t e r a s an e xh i b i t ; howe v e r , t ha t won ' t be pos s i b l e 11

t oda y . So I gue s s I ne ed gu i danc e a s t o whe t he r I c an 12

show t he s e coup l e o f page s f r om t he t e x t book t o 13

Doc t o r Ga l l owa y wh i l e we ha v e t hem a v a i l ab l e o r i f we 14

s i mp l y ne ed t o f o r ego t h i s e v i denc e? 15

THE COURT : So you ' r e go i ng t o o f f e r - - I gue s s 16

t ha t ' s a r oundabou t wa y o f s a y i ng you ' r e o f f e r i ng t ha t 17

i n t o e v i denc e , some e x c e r p t s f r om t ha t Equ i ne Den t i s t r y 18

t e x t ? 19

MR . ROLAND : S i mp l y t o , t o demons t r a t e t ha t peop l e 20

a s soc i a t ed w i t h t he Ac ademy o f Equ i ne Den t i s t r y a r e 21

ha v i ng t he i r wo r k c i t ed i n wha t ' s r ega r ded a s t he 22

s em i na l t e x t book on equ i ne den t i s t r y .23

THE W I TNESS : Ma y I ma k e a commen t ? 24

THE COURT : Hang on j us t a s e cond . Any ob j e c t i on , 25

191


MR . FROWNFELTER : I r e c a l l t ha t M r . Ro l and b r ough t 2

up t he i s sue o f t hem be i ng , o f wo r k s o f t h i s j ou r na l 3

be i ng c i t ed i n t e x t book s . I t wa s i n t he depos i t i on o f 4

one o f t he v e t e r i na r i ans , a l l o f wh i ch t ook p l a c e mo r e 5

t han a we e k ago . He ' s p r ov i ded me w i t h no t h i ng , so 6

s i nc e we ' v e e s t ab l i shed a g r ound r u l e t ha t t h i ngs t ha t 7

a r e no t o f f e r ed un t i l t he l a s t momen t , and t he oppos i ng 8

pa r t y ha s no t had an oppo r t un i t y t o r e v i ew , ha v en ' t 9

be en adm i t t ed , I w i l l ob j e c t t o t he adm i s s i on o f t h i s 10

documen t on a s i ng l e ba s i s . M r . Ro l and ha s known abou t 11

t h i s l onge r t han I knew abou t t he ma t e r i a l s I sha r ed 12

w i t h h i m .13

THE COURT : M r . Ro l and? 14

MR . ROLAND : I , I f e l t t he r e wa s no ne ed t o 15

i n t r oduc e t h i s un t i l I s aw t ha t t he y p l anned t o 16

i n t r oduc e some t h i ng by Da l e J e f f r e y . 17

MR . FROWNFELTER : We l l we d i dn ' t . I f we d i dn ' t 18

adm i t t he J e f f r e y ma t e r i a l s t he r e ' s no r e a son t o 19

adm i t - - 20

THE COURT : Wa s i t Da l e J e f f r e y ma t e r i a l s t ha t we r e 21

no t adm i t t ed? I s t ha t one o f t he one s t ha t we d i dn ' t 22

adm i t ? 23

MR . ROLAND : Tha t ' s co r r e c t , t he y we r e no t 24

adm i t t ed .25

192

THE COURT : Then I ' l l sus t a i n t ha t i f you ' r e 1

o f f e r i ng i t . I ' l l j us t s a y , i f you d i d o f f e r i t I 2

wou l dn ' t a l l ow i t , so I don ' t know whe r e t ha t l e a v e s 3

you a l l , bu t I ' l l sus t a i n M r . F r own f e l t e r ' s ob j e c t i on . 4

( BY MR . ROLAND ) Doc t o r Ga l l owa y , wou l d you r 5 Q .

op i n i on abou t t he - - l e t me r eph r a s e . 6

I s i t you r op i n i on t ha t a l i c ens ed v e t e r i na r i an 7

shou l d no t be a l l owed t o ma k e t he i r own de c i s i on abou t 8

en t r us t i ng t he c a r e o f t he i r own an i ma l s t o a l a y 9

f l oa t e r ? 10

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ' m go i ng t o ob j e c t be c aus e , 11

a c t ua l l y , i t ' s a ma t t e r o f l aw , a s Ms . F ennewa l d 12

p r ov i ded t he cha r t t ha t ' s a pa r t o f t he r egu l a t i ons 13

app l i c ab l e t o v e t e r i na r i ans i n t he s t a t e . A 14

v e t e r i na r i an doe sn ' t ha v e comp l e t e f r e edom t o de t e r m i n e 15

wha t k i nd o f r e f e r r a l s and supe r v i s i on he o r she i s 16

go i ng t o ma k e . Tha t ' s s i mp l y a ma t t e r o f l aw i n t h i s 17

s t a t e . 18

MR . ROLAND : I ' m no t a s k i ng f o r a l ega l conc l us i on , 19

I ' m a s k i ng f o r h i s op i n i on a s an e xpe r t . 20

THE COURT : And wha t wa s t he que s t i on? I ' m so r r y , 21

I k i nd o f l os t t r a c k o f t he que s t i on . 22

MR . ROLAND : The que s t i on i s whe t he r a l i c ens ed 23

v e t e r i na r i an shou l d be p r e c l uded f r om en t r us t i ng t he 24

c a r e o f t he i r own ho r s e s t o a l a y f l oa t e r w i t h whom 25

193

t he y ' r e com f o r t ab l e? 1

THE COURT : Wha t wa s you r ob j e c t i on aga i n , 2


MR . FROWNFELTER : Ok a y , a l l r i gh t , he l i m i t ed i t . 4

You ' r e me an i ng t he i r own ho r s e s , t he i r pe r sona l 5

p r ope r t y? 6

MR . ROLAND : The i r pe r sona l p r ope r t y .7

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ok a y , i n t ha t c a s e I ' l l w i t hd r aw 8

my ob j e c t i on . 9

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . Thank you . You ma y 10

p r oc e ed . You ma y answe r t he que s t i on . 11

THE W I TNESS : Can you r e s t a t e t he que s t i on ; I don ' t 12

unde r s t and t he que s t i on .13

( BY MR . ROLAND ) Ma ybe a s a hypo t he t i c a l i t 14 Q .

m i gh t be e a s i e r . Le t ' s a s sume hypo t he t i c a l l y t he r e i s 15

a l i c ens ed v e t e r i na r i an w i t h 30 y e a r s o f e xpe r i enc e i n 16

wo r k i ng w i t h ho r s e s who wou l d l i k e t o en t r us t t he c a r e 17

o f he r an i ma l s t o a l a y f l oa t e r f o r s i mp l e f l oa t i ng 18

p r oc edu r e s . I s i t you r e xpe r t op i n i on t ha t t he 19

v e t e r i na r i an shou l d no t be pe r m i t t ed t ha t cho i c e? 20

I t ' s my - - I don ' t h a v e a l e g a l op i n i on . I t i s 21 A .

my e x p e r t op i n i on t h a t t h a t i s a n un e t h i c a l p r a c t i c e 22

f r om a p r o f e s s i on a l s t a nd a r d s s t a ndpo i n t . 23

To ma k e a de c i s i on abou t one ' s own ho r s e? 24 Q .

Who s e own ho r s e ? 25 A .

194

The v e t e r i na r i an ' s .1 Q .

I s t h e f l o a t e r f l o a t i ng t h e i r own ho r s e ? 2 A .

No , i t ' s t he f l oa t e r be i ng a s k ed t o f l oa t t he 3 Q .

t e e t h o f an e xpe r i enc ed v e t e r i na r i an ' s ho r s e . 4

Re s t a t e t h e qu e s t i on , p l e a s e . 5 A .

Le t ' s a s sume t he r e i s a v e t e r i na r i an who ha s 6 Q .

wo r k ed w i t h ho r s e s , p r o f e s s i ona l l y , f o r t he be t t e r pa r t 7

o f 30 y e a r s , and t he y ha v e made t he de c i s i on t o en t r us t 8

t he i r ho r s e s f l oa t i ng p r oc edu r e s t o a l a y f l oa t e r . I s 9

i t you r e xpe r t op i n i on t ha t t he y shou l d be - - 10

v e t e r i na r i an shou l d no t be g i v en t h i s op t i on , t o 11

en t r us t t he i r ho r s e t o t h i s l a y f l oa t e r ? 12

Th a t ' s a l e g a l qu e s t i on t o me . 13 A .

I ' m no t a s k i ng f o r a l ega l conc l us i on , I ' m 14 Q .

a s k i ng f o r you r e xpe r t op i n i on . 15

Th e who l e b a s i s o f a n own e r b e i ng a b l e t o 16 A .

s e l e c t t h e i r own h e a l t h c a r e p r o v i d e r i s a n 17

e c onom i c - l e g a l qu e s t i on . I t h a s no t h i ng t o do w i t h 18

p r o f e s s i on a l h e a l t h c a r e s t a nd a r d s . So i n t h a t c a s e , 19

f o r e x amp l e , who ' s ma k i ng t h e d i a gno s i s ? Who ma d e 20

t h e - - d i d t h e v e t e r i n a r i a n ma k e a d i a gno s i s a nd o r d e r 21

a t r e a t me n t p l a n f o r t h a t p e r s on t o p e r f o r m? 22

So a v e t e r i n a r i a n p e r f o r m i ng e t h i c a l l y wou l d go 23

t h r ough t h e s t e p s o f ma k i ng t h e d i a gno s i s , t h e y wou l d 24

no t d e l e g a t e a d i a gno s i s t o s ome bod y e l s e . So f r om a 25

195

p r o f e s s i on a l s t a ndpo i n t t h a t ' s a n un e t h i c a l s c e n a r i o . 1

And how t h e - - how i t ' s my ho r s e f i t s i n t o t h a t , i t ' s 2

s t i l l p r o f e s s i on a l l y un e t h i c a l , w i t hou t h e r ma k i ng t h a t 3

d i a gno s i s t o a l l ow s ome bod y e l s e t o t r e a t a n a n i ma l . 4

So you r t e s t i mony i s t ha t you a r e so conv i nc ed 5 Q .

t ha t on l y v e t e r i na r i ans ha v e any bus i ne s s p r ov i d i ng 6

t he s e s e r v i c e s t ha t a v e t e r i na r i an w i t h 30 y e a r s o f 7

e xpe r i enc e c anno t e v en e t h i c a l l y de c i de t ha t t he y wou l d 8

t r us t t he i r ho r s e t o a l a y f l oa t e r ? 9

I ' m c on v i n c e d t h a t a d i a gno s i s n e e d s t o b e ma d e 10 A .

b e f o r e a t r e a t me n t i s p e r f o r me d i n a n y s i t u a t i on , y e s . 11

I t h i nk I unde r s t and . 12 Q .

I nc i so r s a r e no pa r t o f t he p r o f e s s i ona l 13

de f i n i t i on o f f l oa t i ng , a r e t he y? 14

You ' r e c o r r e c t . 15 A .

Can i ne t e e t h a r e no pa r t o f t he p r o f e s s i ona l 16 Q .

de f i n i t i on o f f l oa t i ng , a r e t he y? 17

Th a t ' s c o r r e c t . 18 A .

You s a y t ha t you ha v e pe r sona l l y obs e r v ed a 19 Q .

non - v e t e r i na r i an pe r f o r m i ng odon t op l a s t y ; co r r e c t ? 20

Ye s . 21 A .

On wha t ba s i s do you t h i nk you c an e x t r apo l a t e 22 Q .

you r obs e r v a t i on o f h i m t o o t he r non - v e t e r i na r i ans? 23

Th a t s t ud y wa s N e qu a l s 1 . 24 A .

I ' m so r r y , I d i dn ' t he a r you . 25 Q .

196

N e qu a l s 1 i n t h a t s t ud y . So on wh a t b a s i s , I 1 A .

me an , I ' v e obs e r v ed 1 . 2

Bu t you don ' t ha v e any s c i en t i f i c ba s i s , o r you 3 Q .

ha v en ' t done any r e s e a r ch t ha t sugge s t s - - 4

No . 5 A .

- - t h a t - - 6 Q .

I ' v e a l r e a d y c on c e d e d I ' v e don e no r e s e a r c h . 7 A .

Ve r y e a r l y on i n you r t e s t i mony you men t i oned 8 Q .

s e v e r a l d i f f e r en t d i s e a s e s . I be l i e v e one o f t hem wa s 9

r ab i e s ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 10

Th a t ' s c o r r e c t . 11 A .

Doe s f l oa t i ng c aus e r ab i e s? 12 Q .

No , f l o a t i ng do e s no t c a u s e r a b i e s . 13 A .

Doe s f l oa t i ng c aus e v e s i cu l a r s t oma t i t i s? 14 Q .

Th a t c ou l d b e c a u s e d t h r ough a f om i t a 15 A .

t r a n sm i s s i on , s o i s t h a t po s s i b l e , y e s . I t ' s po s s i b l e . 16

Cou l d we e s t ab l i sh f o r t he r e co r d wha t f om i t a 17 Q .

i s . 18

Ca r r y i ng d i s e a s e f r om a - - i t ' s c a r r i e d on a 19 A .

p i e c e o f c l o t h i ng o r a n i n s t r ume n t o r s ome t h i ng l i k e 20

t h a t . 21

I f a f l oa t e r soa k ed h i s t oo l s i n m i l k s and , 22 Q .

wou l d t ha t be l i k e l y t o e l i m i na t e t he r i s k o f f om i t e s 23

be i ng t r ans f e r r ed? 24

I ' m no t f am i l i a r w i t h t h a t p r odu c t . Wh a t ' s t h e 25 A .

197

p r odu c t ? 1

I f you a r e no t f am i l i a r w i t h i t I c an ' t - - I 2 Q .

me an , you c an ' t t e s t i f y abou t i t . 3

Doe s f l oa t i ng c aus e equ i ne he r pe s? 4

Th e a c t , no ; bu t a g a i n , i t c ou l d b e c a r r i e d a s 5 A .

a f om i t e on t h e i n s t r ume n t a t i on . 6

And wha t ' s t he du r a t i on o f t he r i s k f r om a 7 Q .

f om i t e? 8

I t wou l d d e p e nd on t h e s p e c i f i c o r g a n i sm , a nd 9 A .

t h a t wou l d b e e x p e r t t e s t i mon y f r om a n i n t e r n i s t . 10

Tha t wou l d be wha t ? 11 Q .

You wou l d n e e d t o a s k a n i n t e r n i s t s p e c i f i c a l l y 12 A .

wh a t t h e du r a t i on s wou l d b e und e r t h e g i v e n c ond i t i on s 13

t h a t t h a t s p e c i f i c a n i ma l i s . 14

And t he r e ' s no wa y t o ge t us i n a ba l l pa r k? 15 Q .

Th e r e ' s no wa y f o r me t o do t h a t t od a y . 16 A .

Ok a y . So t he r e ' s no wa y t o a c t ua l l y quan t i f y 17 Q .

t he r i s k l e v e l ? 18

No , I c a nno t qu a n t i f y t h e r i s k l e v e l . 19 A .

Ok a y . So you ha v e no t r e v i ewed any r e s e a r ch 20 Q .

t ha t shows t ha t on l y l i c ens ed v e t s a r e compe t en t t o 21

f l oa t ho r s e s ' t e e t h , ha v e you? 22

No , I h a v e no t .23 A .

MR . ROLAND : I be l i e v e t hos e a r e a l l my que s t i ons . 24

THE COURT : Thank you , M r . Ro l and . 25

198

Do you ha v e any r ed i r e c t ? 1

MR . FROWNFELTER : Jus t a coup l e . 2

3



Doc t o r Ga l l owa y , t he r e wa s some d i s cus s i on o f , 6 Q .

M r . Ro l and a s k ed you i f f l oa t i ng c aus e s r ab i e s . Wha t 7

wou l d happen i f a non - v e t e r i na r y f l oa t e r , wha t wou l d 8

t he r i s k be i f a non - v e t e r i na r y f l oa t e r we r e t o f l oa t 9

t he t e e t h o f a ho r s e t ha t i n f a c t had r ab i e s? 10

Th e y c ou l d c on t r a c t r a b i e s . Ra b i e s i s a 11 A .

z oono t i c d i s e a s e . I f y ou g e t i t , y ou d i e . So i t i s a 12

s i gn i f i c a n t z oono t i c i s s u e . I t t y p i c a l l y p r e s e n t s i n 13

l a r g e a n i ma l s i n t h e mou t h . 14

How wou l d i t man i f e s t i t s e l f i n t he mou t h? 15 Q .

Ne u r o l og i c a l l y , t y p i c a l l y , d y s ph a g i a , bu t t h e 16 A .

a c t u a l o r g a n i sm w i l l b e t r a n sm i t t e d t h r ough t h e s a l i v a . 17

C l a s s i c a l l y , v e t e r i n a r i a n s i n t h e p a s t h a v e go t t e n i t 18

wh e n a n a n i ma l p r e s e n t e d f o r c ho k e , a nd t h e y s t u c k 19

t h e i r a r m i n t h e a n i ma l ' s mou t h t o r e l i e v e t h e c ho k e 20

a nd s c r a t c h e d t h e i r a r m on t h e t e e t h . Th a t ' s wh y a 21

v e t e r i n a r i a n o r g e n e r a l v e t s g e t v a c c i n a t e d f o r r a b i e s . 22

How e a s y i s i t by v i sua l e x am i na t i on t o 23 Q .

de t e r m i ne t ha t an an i ma l ha s r ab i e s? 24

I t wou l d b e b a s e d on t h e - - y ou wou l d s u s p e c t 25 A .

199

i t b a s e d i t on n e u r o l og i c s i gn s . 1

Wou l d t he obs e r v a t i on t o de t e c t t ha t t he an i ma l 2 Q .

ha s r ab i e s be some t h i ng t ha t a l a ype r son cou l d do? 3

Cou l d t h e y ob s e r v e t h a t ? 4 A .

Uh - huh . 5 Q .

Ye a h . You c ou l d ob s e r v e a n e u r o l og i c ho r s e , 6 A .

bu t wh e t h e r o r no t y ou c ou l d d i a gno s e wh a t wa s go i ng on 7

i s t h e i s s u e . 8

Ok a y . You men t i oned t he cond i t i on o f s t om i t i s , 9 Q .

wa s i t ? 10

S t oma t i t i s , y e s .11 A .

S t oma t i t i s . How wou l d t ha t man i f e s t o r p r e s en t 12 Q .

i t s e l f i n t he mou t h? 13

Ve s i c l e s . I t g e n e r a l l y s t a r s a s v e s i c l e . 14 A .

Ve s i c u l a r s t oma t i t i s , me a n i ng i t s t a r t s i n t h e v e s i c l e s 15

a nd go e s i n t o u l c e r a t i v e l e s i on s . 16

Wha t wou l d happen i f a pe r son we r e t o f l oa t t he 17 Q .

t e e t h o f a ho r s e w i t h s t oma t i t i s man i f e s t i ng i n t he 18

mou t h? Wha t wou l d t he r i s k t o t ha t pe r son be? 19

To t h e p e r s on? So t h a t ' s no t a - - i t ' s no t a 20 A .

z oono t i c d i s e a s e , bu t t h e o t h e r ho r s e s , o t h e r ho r s e s 21

wou l d b e a t r i s k . And t h a t ' s s u c h a s i gn i f i c a n t e qu i n e 22

d i s e a s e i t ' s r e po r t a b l e . 23

And wou l d t ha t be a pa r t i cu l a r r i s k i f t he 24 Q .

f l oa t e r we r e t o p r oc e ed w i t h o t he r ho r s e s a f t e r - -25

200

Ye s . 1 A .

- - f l oa t i ng t ha t ho r s e? Ok a y . 2 Q .


4

RECROSS EXAM I NAT I ON5

BY MR . ROLAND : 6

Ha v e you r e v i ewed any s t ud i e s on t he pa s s age o f 7 Q .

r ab i e s by f l oa t i ng? 8

No . 9 A .

Ha v e you done any s t ud i e s o r r e v i ewed any 10 Q .

s t ud i e s on t he con t r a c t i on o f s t oma t i t i s a s a r e su l t o f 11

f l oa t i ng? 12

No . 13 A .

So you ha v e no emp i r i c a l ba s i s f o r e v a l ua t i ng 14 Q .

t he l i k e l i hood o f such a t r ans f e r oc cu r r i ng? 15

And I doub t y ou ' l l f i nd t ho s e s t ud i e s b e c a u s e 16 A .

t h e s e a r e s u c h s i gn i f i c a n t d i s e a s e s t h a t ou r go v e r nme n t 17

p r e v e n t s t h em . So t h e y ' r e e i t h e r z oono t i c d i s e a s e s 18

t h a t p r e s e n t a po t e n t i a l huma n h e a l t h r i s k o r a 19

s i gn i f i c a n t e c onom i c r i s k t o t h e ho r s e popu l a t i on t h a t 20

ou r go v e r nme n t p r e v e n t s t h e s e d i s e a s e s . Th a t ' s t h e 21

ma i n f o c u s o f t h e - - 22

So wha t you ' r e s a y i ng - - 23 Q .

I don ' t t h i n k we wou l d h a v e e nough ho r s e s ou t 24 A .

t h e r e t o do a p r op e r s t ud y , t o do t h e s t ud y y ou ' r e 25

201

d e s c r i b i ng . Th e r e wou l dn ' t b e e nough a n i ma l s , e nough 1

i n c i d e n t s . Th e y wou l d h a v e t o b e don e - - t h e s t ud y 2

wou l d h a v e t o b e don e i n a c on t r o l l e d e n v i r onme n t , 3

p r ob a b l y no t i n t h e Un i t e d S t a t e s . 4

So wha t you ' r e s a y i ng i s a t l e a s t a s f a r a s t he 5 Q .

Un i t ed S t a t e s i s conc e r ned , t he r i s k o f t he s e d i s e a s e s 6

be i ng pa s s ed by f l oa t i ng i s a l mos t i nde s c r i bab l y sma l l ? 7

Bu t a l s o v e r y f a t a l . Th a t ' s wh y we v a c c i n a t e , 8 A .

b e c a u s e o f t h e c on s e qu e n c e o f t h i s d i s e a s e t h a t we 9

don ' t s e e a who l e l o t . So , y e s , we don ' t wa n t t o s e e 10

t h i s d i s e a s e b e c a u s e wh e n we do s e e t h e s e d i s e a s e s , 11

p e op l e a nd a n i ma l s d i e . 12

MR . ROLAND : No f u r t he r que s t i ons .13

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ha v e no t h i ng f u r t he r f r om t h i s 14

w i t ne s s . 15

THE COURT : Thank you , you ma y s t ep down . 16

Ma y t h i s w i t ne s s be r e l e a s ed , I a s sume? Do we ne ed 17

t o l e t h i m go? We ' r e r e l e a s i ng t he w i t ne s s f o r t he 18

da y ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 19

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ye s . I n f a c t i f I cou l d ha v e a 20

momen t a r y r e c e s s wh i l e I a r r ange f o r Doc t o r Ga l l owa y t o 21

be t r anspo r t ed? 22

THE COURT : Ye ah , we ' l l t a k e abou t a f i v e - m i nu t e 23

r e c e s s o r so . 24

MR . FROWNFELTER : Thank you .25

202

( B r i e f Re c e s s f r om 2 : 45 t o 2 : 55 p . m . )1

THE COURT : M r . F r own f e l t e r , you wan t t o c a l l you r 2

ne x t w i t ne s s . 3

MR . FROWNFELTER : We ' d l i k e t o c a l l B r uc e Wh i t t l e , 4

Doc t o r B r uc e Wh i t t l e . And M r . Ta y l o r w i l l do t he 5

e x am i na t i on . 6

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t , t hank you .7

8

DOCTOR BRUCE WH I TTLE , du l y swo r n by t he Depu t y 9

C i r cu i t C l e r k .10


THE COURT : P l e a s e be s e a t ed . 12

You ma y p r oc e ed , M r . Ta y l o r .13

MR . TAYLOR : Thank you . 14

15


BY MR . TAYLOR :17

Good a f t e r noon . Wou l d you p l e a s e s t a t e you r 18 Q .

name f o r t he r e co r d . 19

B r u c e Wh i t t l e . 20 A .

How do you spe l l you r l a s t name?21 Q .

W - h - i - t - t - l - e . 22 A .

Wha t i s you r add r e s s? 23 Q .

My c l i n i c a dd r e s s i s 210 E a s t H i ghwa y 6 , 24 A .

T r e n t on , M i s s ou r i 64683 . 25

203

Wha t i s you r oc cupa t i on? 1 Q .

Ve t e r i n a r i a n . 2 A .

And wha t i s t he na t u r e o f you r p r a c t i c e? 3 Q .

I t ' s a m i x e d a n i ma l p r a c t i c e .4 A .

Wha t pe r c en t age o f you r p r a c t i c e i nvo l v e s t he 5 Q .

t r e a t men t o f ho r s e s? 6

App r o x i ma t e l y 30 p e r c e n t . 7 A .

Do you ho l d o r ha v e you he l d any o f f i c e s i n t he 8 Q .

s t a t e v e t e r i na r i an a s soc i a t i on? 9

Ye s , I h a v e . 10 A .

Wha t a r e t hos e? 11 Q .

I am c u r r e n t l y t h e bo a r d c h a i r o f t h e M i s s ou r i 12 A .

Ve t e r i n a r y Me d i c a l As s o c i a t i on , a nd s o p r e v i ou s l y I wa s 13

p r e s i d e n t l a s t y e a r . I ' m a l s o c u r r e n t l y c omm i t t e e 14

c h a i r o f t h e y e qu i n e c omm i t t e e , a nd I ' v e b e e n on 15

mu l t i p l e c omm i t t e e s i n t h e p a s t . 16

Wha t i s t he v e t e r i na r y a s soc i a t i on? Wha t ' s i t s 17 Q .

pu r pos e? 18

Th e M i s s ou r i Ve t e r i n a r y Me d i c a l As s o c i a t i on i s 19 A .

b a s i c a l l y t h e p r o f e s s i on a l a s s o c i a t i on o f v e t e r i n a r i a n s 20

o f M i s s ou r i , a nd we h a v e s e v e r a l d i f f e r e n t go a l s , I 21

gu e s s . Con t i nu i ng e du c a t i on wou l d b e a b i g on e , 22

mon i t o r i ng l e g i s l a t i on wou l d b e a no t h e r on e , a nd I 23

gu e s s j u s t c ama r a d e r i e wou l d b e t h e t h i r d on e . 24

Wha t i s you r educ a t i ona l ba c kg r ound? 25 Q .

204

A f t e r h i gh s c hoo l I a t t e nd e d No r t h e a s t M i s s ou r i 1 A .

S t a t e Un i v e r s i t y i n K i r k s v i l l e , c omp l e t e d my 2

r e qu i r eme n t s f o r a dm i s s i on t o v e t s c hoo l a nd a t t e nd e d 3

t h e Un i v e r s i t y o f M i s s ou r i Co l umb i a Co l l e g e o f 4

Ve t e r i n a r y Me d i c i n e . G r a du a t e d i n 1994 . 5

As pa r t o f you r ba c kg r ound ha v e you had 6 Q .

e xpe r i enc e w i t h s t a t i s t i c s? 7

A l i t t l e b i t . I d i d a n i nd e p e nd e n t 8 A .

und e r g r a du a t e r e s e a r c h p r o j e c t wh e n I wa s a t No r t h e a s t 9

M i s s ou r i S t a t e Un i v e r s i t y , a nd we d i d h a v e s ome 10

e p i d em i o l og y i n v e t e r i n a r y s c hoo l .11

Thank you .12 Q .

MR . TAYLOR : You r Hono r , ma y I app r oa ch t he 13

w i t ne s s? 14


MR . TAYLOR : Thank you .16

( BY MR . TAYLOR) I ' m hand i ng you wha t ' s be en 17 Q .

ma r k ed a s P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 31 . W i l l you 18

i den t i f y t ha t documen t . 19

Ye s . 20 A .

W i l l you i den t i f y wha t documen t t ha t i s . 21 Q .

I t ' s my CV . 22 A .

Can you t e l l us wha t a CV i s . 23 Q .

Cu r r i c u l um V i t a e .24 A .

MR . TAYLOR : A t t h i s t i me I mov e t o adm i t 25

205

P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 31 i n t o e v i denc e . 1


e v i denc e . ) 3


THE COURT : 31 w i l l be adm i t t ed . 5


e v i denc e . ) 7


( BY MR . TAYLOR ) Du r i ng you r t enu r e a s 9 Q .

p r e s i den t o f t he M i s sou r i Ve t e r i na r y As soc i a t i on , d i d 10

you do any wo r k r ega r d i ng t he a v a i l ab i l i t y o f 11

v e t e r i na r i ans t o pe r f o r m equ i ne den t a l s e r v i c e s i n 12

M i s sou r i ? 13

Ye s , we d i d . 14 A .

Can you e xp l a i n how t he s t udy p r oc e eded . 15 Q .

Ba s i c a l l y we t r i e d t o d i g up numb e r s o f ho r s e s 16 A .

i n M i s s ou r i , a n e s t i ma t e o f t h e p e r c e n t a g e o f ho r s e s 17

t h a t we r e p r e s e n t e d f o r d e n t a l c a r e . Th i s wou l d b e a 18

n a t i onw i d e numb e r a nnu a l l y , numb e r o f v e t e r i n a r i a n s 19

e s t i ma t e d p e r f o r m i ng d e n t i s t , e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y s e r v i c e s 20

i n M i s s ou r i a nd d i v i d e i t a l l ou t a nd c ame up w i t h a 21

numb e r . 22

A numbe r o f ? 23 Q .

We l l - - o k a y , s o t h e numb e r s - - we f ound t h a t 24 A .

t h e l a t e s t a c t u a l s t ud y o f ho r s e numb e r s i n M i s s ou r i 25

206

wa s don e i n 2001 t h r ough t h e De p a r t me n t o f Ag r i c u l t u r e 1

b y t h e NASS , wh i c h I b e l i e v e i s t h e Na t i on a l 2

Ag r i c u l t u r a l S t a t i s t i c Se r v i c e . And t h e y a l s o d i d 3

a no t h e r s t ud y i n 2005 , bu t we d i d u s e t h e 2001 numb e r s 4

wh i c h e s t i ma t e d a bou t 200 , 000 ho r s e s c omp a r e d t o t h e 5

2005 s t ud y t h a t wa s a bou t 150 , 000 ho r s e s . 6

And we f ound t h e 2005 NAHM s t ud y , wh i c h i s t h e 7

Na t i on a l An i ma l He a l t h Mon i t o r i ng Su r v e y s t ud y wh e r e 8

t h e y go , I t h i n k a bou t e v e r y t e n y e a r s , a nd i t ' s 9

b a s i c a l l y a s u r v e y r un t h r ough t h e Un i t e d S t a t e s 10

De p a r t me n t o f Ag r i c u l t u r e wh e r e t h e y s e nd s u r v e y s t o 11

ho r s e own e r s a c r o s s t h e Un i t e d S t a t e s . Th e y a l s o do i t 12

f o r b e e f a nd pou l t r y a nd sw i n e a nd a l l t h a t . 13

And t h e y s t a t i s t i c a l l y a n a l y z e t h e i r r e s pon s e s 14

t o c ome up w i t h t h e numb e r s , a nd t h e numb e r t h a t t h e y 15

h a d i n t h e r e , a nd t h e r e r e a l l y wa s n ' t mu c h e x p l a n a t i on 16

b e h i nd i t , wa s t h a t t h a t 5 . 3 p e r c e n t o f ho r s e s we r e 17

p r e s e n t e d f o r d e n t a l s e r v i c e s on a n a nnu a l b a s i s . So 18

i f we a s s ume 200 , 000 ho r s e s t i me s 5 . 3 p e r c e n t , t h a t 19

wou l d b e a bou t 10 , 600 ho r s e s . 20

And we h a d e s t i ma t e d a t t h e t i me , a nd wh a t we 21

d i d wa s we j u s t t oo k - - we h a d a - - o r we h a v e a n 22

Equ i n e De n t i s t r y Re f e r r a l D i r e c t o r y , 23

Ve t e r i n a r i a n - t o - Ve t e r i n a r i a n , i t ' s a n i n t e r n a l do c ume n t 24

t h a t we u s e f o r v e t e r i n a r i a n s t h a t do no t p r o v i d e 25

207

d e n t a l s e r v i c e s ; t h e y c a n go t o t h i s do c ume n t a nd f i nd 1

a no t h e r v e t e r i n a r i a n t h a t t h e y c a n r e f e r t o , a nd t h e s e 2

we r e a l l s e l f - i d e n t i f i e d p e op l e , we ' d s e n t a s u r v e y 3

ou t , a nd t h e r e we r e 61 p e op l e on t h a t s u r v e y - - o r 4

t h e r e ' s 61 p e op l e l i s t e d i n t h e d i r e c t o r y r i gh t now . 5

And we ' d a l s o b e e n h a v i ng a s t a t e e qu i n e 6

d e n t i s t r y s em i n a r t h a t we ' v e b e e n ho l d i ng i n Un i on , 7

M i s s ou r i , a nd we h a d 14 - - t h e r e we r e a t l e a s t 14 8

i nd i v i du a l s t h a t we r e a t t h a t l a b t h a t - - a nd I 9

e x c l ud e d s ome t h a t I k n ew t h a t d i d no t do v e r y mu c h 10

d e n t i s t r y , a nd s o I a dd e d t h a t i n t o t h a t 61 a nd c ame up 11

w i t h a t o t a l o f 75 , a nd s o I don ' t r ememb e r wh a t t h a t 12

e nd e d up b e i ng . I t h i n k a r ound 140 ho r s e s p e r y e a r f o r 13

e a c h o f t ho s e 75 v e t e r i n a r i a n s .14

And i n do i ng a l i t t l e b i t o f r e s e a r c h s i n c e 15

t h e n , I f ound ou t t h a t I p r ob a b l y g r o s s l y 16

und e r e s t i ma t e d t h e numb e r o f v e t e r i n a r i a n s , a nd t h a t 17

a c t u a l l y t h e r e a r e p r ob a b l y a t l e a s t 125 v e t e r i n a r i a n s 18

do i ng e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y , p r o v i d i ng t ho s e s e r v i c e s . 19

A l l r i gh t , I ' m go i ng t o hand you wha t ' s be en 20 Q .

ma r k ed a s P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 32 . W i l l you 21

i den t i f y t ha t documen t . 22

Th i s wa s t h e 2001 s u r v e y t h a t wa s b a s i c a l l y 23 A .

c omm i s s i on e d b y t h e M i s s ou r i De p a r t me n t o f Ag r i c u l t u r e 24

a nd s e v e r a l o t h e r a l l i e d g r oup s . 25

208

How d i d you ob t a i n t ha t documen t ? 1 Q .

I wa s a c t u a l l y a memb e r o f a F a r m Bu r e a u 2 A .

c omm i t t e e a t t h e t i me , a nd t h a t - - F a r m Bu r e a u wa s on e 3

o f t h e s pon s o r s a nd s o I h a d a h a r d c op y o f i t a t t h a t 4

t i me , bu t I t h i n k f o r t h e s t ud y I l oo k e d i t up on t h e 5

I n t e r ne t . 6

I s t ha t an a c cu r a t e copy? 7 Q .

Loo k s l i k e i t . 8 A .

And you r e l i ed on t ha t documen t i n t he cou r s e 9 Q .

o f you r s t udy? 10

Ye s . 11 A .

I s t h i s t he t ype o f documen t t ha t someone i n 12 Q .

you r f i e l d o f e xpe r t i s e wou l d r e l y upon , d r aw on 13

conc l us i ons? 14

Ye s .15 A .

Whe r e i n t h i s documen t doe s t he f i gu r e t he 16 Q .

s t udy ' s ba s ed on appe a r ? 17

Th i s on e do e s no t h a v e p a g e numb e r s on i t , bu t 18 A .

i t wou l d b e on Pa g e 5 . Bo t h Pa g e s 5 a nd 6 a s y ou g a v e 19

i t t o me s a y a t 2000 f o r 200 , 000 h e a d . And , b e c a u s e on 20

Pa g e 6 i t s a y s , " On J a nu a r y 2nd , 2002 , M i s s ou r i h a d a 21

t o t a l o f 200 , 000 e qu i n e i n 37 , 000 l o c a t i on s . " 22

Thank you . 23 Q .

MR . TAYLOR : The pe t i t i one r mov e s t o adm i t t he 24

documen t ma r k ed a s P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 32 i n t o 25

209

e v i denc e . 1


e v i denc e . ) 3


MR . ROLAND : I ob j e c t be c aus e I don ' t s e e whe r e 5

t he y ge t t ha t numbe r . I t ma k e s a ba l d s t a t emen t t ha t 6

t he r e a r e 200 , 000 equ i ne . I don ' t s e e an i nd i c a t i on o f 7

t he me t hodo l ogy f o r coun t i ng , and i t ' s pos s i b l e I j us t 8

ha v en ' t go t t en t he r e y e t . 9

THE COURT : I ' l l ov e r r u l e t he ob j e c t i on . 10

I f y ou l oo k , I gu e s s i t wou l d b e t h e bo t t om o f 11 A .

t h e s i x t h p a g e , i t s a y s " To t a l A l l B r e e d s " a t t h e 12

bo t t om , a nd i t s a y s 200 , 000 down t h e r e und e r t h e c o l umn 13

numb e r . I t go e s t h r ough " To t a l L i gh t Ho r s e B r e e d s " ; 14

" To t a l - - " t h e n " Ra c e Ho r s e B r e e d s " ; " To t a l D r a f t Ho r s e 15

B r e e d s " ; " To t a l Pon y B r e e d s " ; " Don k e y s , Mu l e s a nd 16

Bu r r o s " ; a nd t h e n " To t a l A l l B r e e d s " b e 200 , 000 . 17

THE COURT : Exh i b i t 32 w i l l be adm i t t ed . 18


e v i denc e . ) 20


( BY MR . TAYLOR ) I be l i e v e you men t i oned 22 Q .

e a r l i e r , bu t wha t wa s t he numbe r you f i gu r ed f o r t he 23

amoun t o f ho r s e s t ha t p r e s en t ed w i t h den t a l p r ob l ems? 24

5 . 3 p e r c e n t . 25 A .

210

I ' m go i ng t o hand you wha t ' s ma r k ed a s 1 Q .

P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 33 . W i l l you i den t i f y t ha t 2

documen t . 3

Th i s i s t h e NAHMs 2005 e qu i n e s t ud y , p a r t o f 4 A .

i t . 5

Wha t i s NAHMs? 6 Q .

Na t i on a l An i ma l He a l t h Mon i t o r i ng Su r v e y . 7 A .

And t ha t i s t he en t i t y t ha t c r e a t ed t he 8 Q .

documen t ? 9

Th a t ' s c o r r e c t . 10 A .

How d i d you ob t a i n t he documen t ? 11 Q .

I l oo k e d i t up on l i n e . 12 A .

And i s t ha t an a c cu r a t e copy o f t he documen t 13 Q .

you l ook ed up? 14

I t l oo k s l i k e i t , y e s . 15 A .

And d i d you r e l y on t ha t s t udy t o ba s e you r 16 Q .

s t udy upon? 17

Ye s , I d i d . 18 A .

Can you t u r n t o Page 47 on No . 33 . 19 Q .

Ye s . 20 A .

I s t h i s whe r e i t i nd i c a t e s t he p r e s en t i ng r a t e s 21 Q .

o f ho r s e s? 22


And i s t h i s t ype o f documen t someone i n you r 24 Q .

f i e l d o f e xpe r t i s e wou l d r e l y upon? 25

211

Ye s . 1 A .

Thank you . 2 Q .

MR . TAYLOR : The Pe t i t i one r mov e s t o i n t r oduc e t he 3

documen t ma r k ed a s P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 33 i n t o 4

e v i denc e .5


e v i denc e . ) 7

MR . ROLAND : No ob j e c t i ons . 8

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . Exh i b i t 33 w i l l be 9

adm i t t ed . 10


e v i denc e . ) 12

( BY MR . TAYLOR) How i s t he numbe r o f 13 Q .

v e t e r i na r i ans a v a i l ab l e t o pe r f o r m equ i ne den t a l 14

s e r v i c e s e s t i ma t ed? 15

L i k e I d e s c r i b e d e a r l i e r , b a s i c a l l y , we h a v e a n 16 A .

i n t e r n a l do c ume n t t h a t ' s a Ve t e r i n a r i a n - t o - Ve t e r i n a r i a n 17

Equ i n e De n t i s t r y Re f e r r a l , a nd t h e r e ' s 61 v e t e r i n a r i a n s 18

l i s t e d i n t h e r e . And t h e n f o r t h e i n i t i a l s t ud y , I 19

a dd e d v e t e r i n a r i a n s t h a t a t t e nd e d ou r e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y 20

s em i n a r we t l a b . 21

Th e r e wa s a c omp r e h e n s i v e t h r e e - d a y we t l a b 22

t h a t we h a d bo t h l e c t u r e a nd l i v e ho r s e d e n t a l l a b wo r k 23

on . And I t oo k t h e v e t e r i n a r i a n s t h a t we r e no t on t h e 24

r e f e r r a l l i s t t h a t we n t t o t h a t t h a t I k n ew we r e 25

212

p r o v i d i ng e qu i n e d e n t a l s e r v i c e s . 1

Th e r e we r e s ome t h a t I d i dn ' t k now f o r s u r e , 2

a nd s o I e x c l ud e d t h em , a nd t h e n t o a r r i v e a t my 3

r e v i s e d numb e r o f 125 , I c omp a r e d t ho s e t wo l i s t s w i t h 4

t h e Ame r i c a n As s o c i a t i on o f Equ i n e P r a c t i t i on e r s 5

memb e r s h i p d i r e c t o r y , wh i c h wou l d b e t h e p r o f e s s i on a l 6

a s s o c i a t i on o f e qu i n e v e t e r i n a r i a n s i n t h e Un i t e d 7

S t a t e s , a c t u a l l y i n t e r n a t i on a l , a nd t h e r e we r e , I 8

b e l i e v e , 122 v e t e r i n a r i a n s on t h a t l i s t . 9

Th e r e we r e 28 o f t h em t h a t we r e a l r e a d y on ou r 10

r e f e r r a l l i s t a nd no t o f t h a t o t h e r 14 , a nd s o I j u s t 11

t oo k h a l f o f t h a t , wh i c h I wou l d a s s ume t h a t , y ou k now , 12

h a l f o f t h e v e t e r i n a r i a n s , y ou k now , a r e p r o v i d i ng . 13

I t r i e d t o e s t i ma t e l ow , s o , y ou k now , I ' m 14

t h i n k i ng 125 . So t h e r e a r e go i ng t o b e s ome 15

v e t e r i n a r i a n s t h a t a r e n ' t e v e n c a ugh t b y t ho s e t h r e e 16

t h i ng s , s o I me a n , t h a t ' s - -17

So you e s t i ma t ed l ow , ba s i c a l l y , you r s t udy? 18 Q .

Ye s . 19 A .

And I ' m hand i ng you a documen t t ha t ' s ma r k ed a s 20 Q .

P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 34 . I s t ha t t he Re f e r r a l 21

D i r e c t o r y you men t i oned? 22

Ye s , i t i s . 23 A .

Who c r e a t ed t h i s documen t ? 24 Q .

I t wa s t h r ough t h e e qu i n e c omm i t t e e o f t h e 25 A .

213

M i s s ou r i Ve t e r i n a r y Me d i c a l As s o c i a t i on . 1

How d i d you ob t a i n t he documen t ? 2 Q .

I go t i t on l i n e , bu t I a l s o h a d a h a r d c op y o f 3 A .

i t . We g a v e e v e r y bod y a t ou r e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y s em i n a r 4

t h a t I wa s i n c h a r g e o f . 5

I s t he documen t ma r k ed a s P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 6 Q .

No . 34 an a c cu r a t e copy o f t he documen t you r e l i ed upon 7

i n com i ng t o you r conc l us i ons t he r e i n t he s t udy? 8

Ye s .9 A .

MR . TAYLOR : The pe t i t i one r mov e s t o i n t r oduc e t he 10


e v i denc e . 12


e v i denc e . ) 14


THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . Same w i l l be adm i t t ed .16


e v i denc e . ) 18

( BY MR . TAYLOR ) Wha t pe r c en t age o f M i s sou r i 19 Q .

l i c ens ed v e t e r i na r i ans a r e membe r s o f t he As soc i a t i on? 20

A r ound 50 p e r c e n t , I b e l i e v e . 21 A .

A r e t he r e any ou t - o f - s t a t e v e t e r i na r i ans 22 Q .

i nc l uded i n t h i s s t udy? 23

No . 24 A .

To you r know l edge do M i s sou r i l i c ens ed 25 Q .

214

ou t - o f - s t a t e v e t e r i na r i ans pe r f o r m equ i ne s e r v i c e s i n 1

M i s sou r i ?2

I c a n ' t s p e a k s p e c i f i c a l l y t o a n y s p e c i f i c 3 A .

s e r v i c e s , bu t I k now t h a t t h e r e a r e a l o t o f 4

v e t e r i n a r i a n s t h a t do p r a c t i c e a c r o s s - - f o r e x amp l e , 5

I ' m up c l o s e t o t h e I owa l i n e a nd I k now t h a t t h e r e a r e 6

v e t e r i n a r i a n s t h a t c ome i n t o M i s s ou r i a nd p r a c t i c e , 7

b e c a u s e t h e y ho l d a M i s s ou r i l i c e n s e . 8

So ba s i c a l l y , you ' v e t e s t i f i ed be f o r e , bu t you r 9 Q .

ba s i c conc l us i on i s t ha t t he r e ' s app r ox i ma t e l y 125 10

v e t e r i na r i ans t ha t a r e qua l i f i ed t o p r ov i de den t a l 11

s e r v i c e s t o t he ho r s e popu l a t i on i n M i s sou r i ? 12

Ye s , I wou l d s a y a t l e a s t t h a t ma n y . 13 A .

And wha t wa s t he geog r aph i c a l d i s t r i bu t i on o f 14 Q .

t he v e t e r i na r i an popu l a t i on i den t i f i ed? 15

Th e y we r e s c a t t e r e d t h r oughou t t h e s t a t e . 16 A .

We r e mos t coun t i e s a c coun t ed f o r ? 17 Q .

No , t h e y we r e no t , bu t I b e l i e v e t h e r e we r e 18 A .

on l y s i x c oun t i e s t h a t d i d e i t h e r no t h a v e a 19

v e t e r i n a r i a n f r om t h e 61 t h a t we r e p e r f o r m i ng t ho s e 20

s e r v i c e s o r a n a d j a c e n t c oun t y . 21

We r e any documen t s p r epa r ed t o i l l us t r a t e t he 22 Q .

d i s t r i bu t i on? 23

Ye s , t h e r e wa s a ma p p r odu c e d .24 A .

I ' m hand i ng you wha t i s ma r k ed a s P l a i n t i f f ' s 25 Q .

215

Exh i b i t No . 35 . Do you r e cogn i z e t h i s documen t ? 1

Ye s . 2 A .

Wha t i s t h i s , t he documen t ma r k ed a s 3 Q .

P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 35? 4

Th i s wa s t h e ma p t h a t we b a s i c a l l y t oo k t h e 5 A .

numb e r s o f t h e v e t e r i n a r i a n s t h a t we h a d i d e n t i f i e d 6

f r om a l i s t , a nd we wou l d pu t t h em b y c oun t y on t o t h e 7

ma p t o b a s i c a l l y g e t a d i s t r i bu t i on o f v e t e r i n a r i a n s 8

p e r f o r m i ng e qu i n e d e n t a l s e r v i c e s a c r o s s t h e s t a t e .9

A l l r i gh t . 10 Q .

MR . TAYLOR : The pe t i t i one r mov e s t o i n t r oduc e t he 11


e v i denc e . 13


e v i denc e . ) 15


THE COURT : P l a i n t i f f ' s 35 w i l l be adm i t t ed . 17


e v i denc e . ) 19

( BY MR . TAYLOR) So ba s i c a l l y du r i ng you r s t udy 20 Q .

you de r i v ed t h r e e f i gu r e s f r om t he documen t s I ' v e j us t 21

p r e s en t ed t o you t o r e a ch you r f i na l conc l us i on ; i s 22


Ye s . 24 A .

One be i ng t he numbe r o f ho r s e s wh i ch i s 25 Q .

216

200 , 000 . The s e cond be i ng t he p r e s en t a t i on r a t e o f t he 1

ho r s e popu l a t i on f o r den t a l p r ob l ems? 2

Ye s . 3 A .

Wh i ch i s 5 . 3 pe r c en t ? 4 Q .

Ye s . 5 A .

And , a l so , t he a v a i l ab l e numbe r o f 6 Q .

v e t e r i na r i ans pe r f o r m i ng t he s e s e r v i c e s t h r oughou t t he 7

s t a t e wh i ch you e s t i ma t e i s 125? 8

Ye s , y e s , I do . 9 A .

And wha t conc l us i ons d i d t he s t udy r e a ch a s t o 10 Q .

t he wo r k l oad o f e a ch v e t e r i na r i an i den t i f i ed i n t he 11

su r v e y? 12

Ca n ' t r ememb e r t h e e x a c t numb e r s , bu t i f y ou 13 A .

d i v i d e t h e 10 , 600 i n t o t h e - - o r i g i n a l l y we d i d i t i n t o 14

75 v e t e r i n a r i a n s , a nd I t h i n k t h a t l e f t l i k e 140 , 15

p r ob a b l y a r ound 140 v e t e r i n a r i a n s on a n a nnu a l b a s i s . 16

And s o we d i v i d e d t h a t ou t we e k l y a nd t h a t wou l d b e 17

s omewh e r e und e r t h r e e ho r s e s p e r we e k . 18

Ba s ed on t he s e r e su l t s , wha t i s t he conc l us i on 19 Q .

o f t he s t udy a s t o t he ab i l i t y o f v e t e r i na r i ans t o me e t 20

t he an t i c i pa t ed ne ed o f t he s e t ype s o f s e r v i c e s i n 21

M i s sou r i ? 22

Ba s e d on t ho s e f i gu r e s , i t l oo k s l i k e t h e r e ' s a 23 A .

w i d e d i s t r i bu t i on o f v e t e r i n a r i a n s p r o v i d i ng t h e s e 24

s e r v i c e s . And a t t h e l e v e l o f 5 . 3 p e r c e n t t h a t , y ou 25

217

k now , c u r r e n t l y t h e r e a r e e nough v e t e r i n a r i a n s t o 1

p r o v i d e t ho s e s e r v i c e s . 2

Wha t i f t he ho r s e popu l a t i on wa s 100 t o 200 , 000 3 Q .

ho r s e s h i ghe r t han you e s t i ma t ed , and t he amoun t o f 4

v e t e r i na r i ans wa s l owe r t han t he 125? 5

I f we d r op b a c k down t o t h e 75 v e t e r i n a r i a n s , 6 A .

wh i c h I t h i n k i s a b a r e m i n i mum , e a s i l y , a nd we we n t up 7

t o , s a y , c l o s e t o 300 , 00 ho r s e s , i t s t i l l wou l dn ' t ma k e 8

t h a t mu c h d i f f e r e n c e , i t wou l d s t i l l b e l e s s t h a n f i v e 9

ho r s e s p e r we e k , I b e l i e v e .10

MR . TAYLOR : A l l r i gh t , t hank you . I ha v e no 11

f u r t he r que s t i ons . 12

THE COURT : M r . Ro l and .13

14


BY MR . ROLAND :16

I ' d l i k e t o t a k e a l ook a t t he 2005 USDA 17 Q .

su r v e y . I c an ' t r emembe r wh i ch e xh i b i t t ha t wa s 18

l abe l l ed . 19

MR . TAYLOR : 2005? 20

MR . ROLAND : Ye ah , t he 2005 . 21

THE COURT : 33 .22

( BY MR . ROLAND ) Ok a y , I ' m hand i ng you 23 Q .

P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 33 . 24

Ok a y . 25 A .

218

And cou l d you open up ba c k t o Page 47 . 1 Q .

Ok a y . 2 A .

D i d you s a y you had a ba c kg r ound i n s t a t i s t i c s? 3 Q .

I h a v e no t a b a c k g r ound bu t I h a v e h a d s ome 4 A .

s t ud y i n s t a t i s t i c s t h r ough r e s e a r c h I ' v e don e 5

p r e v i ou s l y i n v e t s c hoo l . 6

Ok a y . So you s a i d t ha t t h i s l i ne r i gh t he r e , 7 Q .

t he l i ne t ha t s a y s " Den t a l P r ob l ems " i s whe r e you go t 8

t he , wha t you s a i d wa s t he pe r c en t age o f ho r s e s 9

p r e s en t i ng t ha t i s sue ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 10

Ye s , t h a t ' s c o r r e c t . 11 A .

Ok a y . Cou l d you r e ad Po i n t A , r i gh t abov e t ha t 12 Q .

cha r t , p l e a s e . 13

" F o r op e r a t i on s t h a t h a d a n y r e s i d e n t e qu i d s 6 14 A .

mon t h s o f a g e o r o l d e r du r i ng t h e p r e v i ou s 12 mon t h s , 15

p e r c e n t a g e o f op e r a t i on s wh e r e e qu i d s b e c ame a f f e c t e d 16

w i t h t h e f o l l ow i ng c ond i t i on s . " 17

Ok a y . D i d you s e e t ha t t ha t s a y s " pe r c en t age 18 Q .

o f ope r a t i ons " ? 19

Uh - huh . 20 A .

So t ha t 5 . 3 doe s no t r e f e r t o a pe r c en t age o f 21 Q .

ho r s e s , i t r e f e r s t o a pe r c en t age o f ope r a t i ons ; i sn ' t 22


Th a t s ound s r e a s on a b l e , I gu e s s . 24 A .

Ok a y , we l l you c an - - 25 Q .

219

I don ' t k now wh a t t h e me t hodo l og y wa s f o r 1 A .

t h e i r - - bu t s u r e , I ' m c on c e d e t h a t . 2

Ok a y . Now i f you wou l d t u r n t o , I be l i e v e i t ' s 3 Q .

Page 20 . 4

Ok a y . 5 A .

A l l r i gh t . And unde r Se c t i on 2 , " Te r ms . " 6 Q .

Cou l d you r e ad t he de f i n i t i on o f " Ope r a t i on " . 7

" An a r e a o f l a nd ma n a g e d a s a un i t b y a n 8 A .

i nd i v i du a l , p a r t n e r s h i p , o r h i r e d ma n a g e r . " 9

Ok a y . So i n f a c t , wha t t h i s 5 . 3 r e f e r s t o i s 10 Q .

no t a pe r c en t age o f ho r s e s bu t r a t he r pe r c en t age o f 11

ope r a t i ons t ha t hos t s equ i ds ; co r r e c t ? 12

Su r e . 13 A .

Ok a y . I wou l d l i k e t o hand t o you a documen t 14 Q .

t ha t we wou l d l i k e t o ha v e ma r k ed a s De f endan t ' s 15

Exh i b i t , I t h i nk we ' r e on 5 , You r Hono r ? 16


( BY MR . ROLAND ) Ha v e you s e en t h i s documen t 18 Q .

be f o r e? 19

I t h i n k I ' v e s c a nn e d t h r ough i t p r ob a b l y 20 A .

10 y e a r s a go , s ome t h i ng l i k e t h a t . 21

Ok a y . Wha t doe s i t r ep r e s en t i t s e l f a s be i ng? 22 Q .

I t i s t h e 1998 NAHMs s e qu e n c e s t ud y . 23 A .

Ok a y . And t h i s i s a p r ede c e s so r o f t he v e r y 24 Q .

s t udy t ha t you we r e j us t l ook i ng a t ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 25

220


Ok a y . Do you ha v e any r e a son t o doub t t he 2 Q .

au t hen t i c i t y o f t h i s documen t ? 3

No . 4 A .

Ok a y . I ' d l i k e you t o open t o Page 2 , p l e a s e . 5 Q .

I s t h e r e a n a c t u a l Pa g e No . 2? 6 A .

Ye s , t he r e i s a Page No . 2 . I t ' s l i k e t h i s . 7 Q .

Ok a y , y e s . 8 A .

Ok a y . As you ' l l s e e , t he he ad i ng a t t he t op o f 9 Q .

t he page i s " Te r ms Us ed i n Th i s Repo r t . " Cou l d you 10

r e ad t he de f i n i t i on o f " Ope r a t i on " , p l e a s e : 11

" An a r e a o f l a nd ma n a g e d a s a un i t b y a n 12 A .

i nd i v i du a l , p a r t n e r s h i p o r h i r e d ma n a g e r . " 13

Do you t h i nk t ha t t he r e i s a f unc t i ona l 14 Q .

d i f f e r enc e be t we en t he wa y t ha t t he wo r d ope r a t i on i s 15

de f i ned i n t h i s r epo r t a s oppos ed t o t he wa y t ha t i t 16

wa s de f i ned i n t he p r e v i ous r epo r t ? 17

No . 18 A .

Ok a y . I ' d l i k e you t o t u r n t o Page 21 , p l e a s e . 19 Q .

Ok a y . 20 A .

Do you s e e t he t op o f t he page wha t i t ' s 21 Q .

ma r k ed , Subs e c t i on 6? 22

" De n t a l c a r e . " 23 A .

Ok a y . Cou l d you r e ad t he m i dd l e box r i gh t 24 Q .

t he r e , p l e a s e . 25

221

" I n 1997 , l a r g e r op e r a t i on s we r e mo r e l i k e l y t o 1 A .

p r o v i d e d e n t a l c a r e f o r r e s i d e n t e qu i d s ; 86 . 3 p e r c e n t 2

o f op e r a t i on s w i t h 20 o r mo r e e qu i d s c omp a r e d t o 3

29 . 3 p e r c e n t o f op e r a t i on s w i t h on e o r t wo e qu i d s 4

p r o v i d e d d e n t a l c a r e i n 1997 . As t h e s i z e o f op e r a t i on 5

i n c r e a s e d , t h e p e r c e n t a g e o f op e r a t i on s wh e r e a n e qu i n e 6

d e n t i s t - - non - v e t e r i n a r i a n i n p a r e n t h e s e s - - p r o v i d e d 7

p r i ma r y d e n t a l c a r e i n c r e a s e d . " 8

Ok a y . So I t h i nk t he ope r a t i v e ph r a s e t he r e 9 Q .

i s , " As t he s i z e o f ope r a t i on i nc r e a s ed , t he pe r c en t age 10

o f ope r a t i ons whe r e an equ i ne den t i s t 11

( non - v e t e r i na r i an ) p r ov i ded p r i ma r y den t a l c a r e 12

i nc r e a s ed . "13

A r med w i t h t he know l edge f r om t h i s r epo r t t ha t 14

t he l a r ge r an ope r a t i on ge t s t he mo r e l i k e l y i t i s t o 15

r e l y on non - v e t e r i na r i an equ i ne den t i s t s , doe s t ha t 16

a f f e c t you r a s s e s smen t o f t he 5 . 3 pe r c en t o f ope r a t i ons 17

t ha t c i t ed us e o r i nc i den t s o f den t a l c a r e i n t he 18

p r e v i ous s t udy? 19

I gu e s s I don ' t s e e t h e r e l e v a n c e b e t we e n t ho s e 20 A .

t wo numb e r s , b e c a u s e t h e y ' r e t o t a l l y s e p a r a t e numb e r s . 21

Ok a y . Wou l d you ag r e e t ha t wha t bo t h o f t he s e 22 Q .

s t ud i e s a r e d i s cus s i ng i s t he pe r c en t age o f ope r a t i ons 23

t ha t p r ov i ded den t a l c a r e t o t he r e s i den t equ i ds?24

THE COURT : Re s i den t wha t ? 25

222

MR . ROLAND : Equ i ds . 1

THE COURT : Wha t i s t ha t ? 2

MR . ROLAND : Membe r s o f t he equ i ne . I s i t a c l a s s 3

o r f am i l y? 4


I don ' t t h i n k y ou c a n c omp a r e t h e numb e r s 6 A .

a c r o s s b e c a u s e t h e y ' r e , t h e i n f o r ma t i on i s d i f f e r e n t 7

b e t we e n t h e t wo . 8

( BY MR . ROLAND) Tha t i s t r ue . Tha t i s t r ue , 9 Q .

and I don ' t me an t o i mp l y t ha t t he numbe r s show e x a c t l y 10

t he s ame t h i ng . 11

Uh - huh . 12 A .

Bu t , t he numbe r s f r om t he 2005 s t udy , wh i ch wa s 13 Q .

i n i t i a l l y i n t r oduc ed , s a i d t ha t , I be l i e v e i t wa s 5 . 3 14

pe r c en t o f ope r a t i ons p r ov i ded den t a l c a r e . 15

R i gh t . 16 A .

I t h i nk t ha t i t c an be conc l uded , I hope you ' l l 17 Q .

ag r e e w i t h me , t ha t t ha t doe sn ' t l i k e l y me an 5 . 3 18

pe r c en t o f ho r s e s , doe s i t ? 19

No . I a g r e e w i t h t h a t . 20 A .

Ok a y . The i n f o r ma t i on i n t he box t ha t you j us t 21 Q .

r e ad sugge s t s t ha t t he l a r ge r an ope r a t i on i s , t he mo r e 22

l i k e l y i t i s t o p r ov i de c a r e ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? The 23

mo r e l i k e l y i t i s t o p r ov i de den t a l c a r e f r om an equ i ne 24

den t i s t who i s a non - v e t e r i na r i an? 25

223

Th a t ' s wh a t i t l oo k s l i k e i t s a y s , y e s . 1 A .

Ok a y . So wou l d you ag r e e w i t h me t ha t i t i s 2 Q .

s a f e t o a s sume t ha t i f t he l a r ge r ope r a t i ons a r e 3

p r ov i d i ng c a r e a t a , I gue s s , g r e a t e r r a t e , i t wou l d 4

s t and t o r e a son t ha t t he numbe r o f ho r s e s r e c e i v i ng 5

c a r e wou l d be e v en e xponen t i a l l y l a r ge r t han t he 6

5 . 3 pe r c en t t ha t you had o r i g i na l l y t hough t ; i s t ha t 7

f a i r t o s a y ? 8

I gu e s s - - I don ' t , I don ' t h a v e k now l e dg e t h a t 9 A .

I c ou l d s a y on t h a t . A l l I c a n go on wou l d b e b a s e d on 10

my p e r s on a l e x p e r i e n c e , a nd I wou l d s a y t h a t i t , i n my 11

p r a c t i c e a r e a , i t do e s n ' t ma t t e r p r ob a b l y t h e s i z e o f 12

t h e op e r a t i on a nd t h e p r o v i s i on o f c a r e . 13

Ok a y . Bu t do you ha v e any da t a t o ba c k t ha t 14 Q .

up? 15

No , I do no t . 16 A .

So t h i s i s t he on l y ha r d da t a t ha t we ha v e 17 Q .

r i gh t now ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 18

Ye a h , y e s . 19 A .

Ok a y . I ' d l i k e you t o t u r n t he page . 20 Q .

( W i t n e s s Comp l i e s ) . 21 A .

Cou l d you r e ad t he box a t t he t op o f t he ne x t 22 Q .

page , p l e a s e . 23

" I n 1997 , op e r a t i on s wh e r e t h e p r i ma r y u s e o f 24 A .

e qu i d s wa s f o r r a c i ng we r e mo s t l i k e l y t o p r o v i d e 25

224

d e n t a l c a r e ( 81 . 6 p e r c e n t ) . A non - v e t e r i n a r i a n e qu i n e 1

d e n t i s t wa s mo s t l i k e l y t o b e t h e p r i ma r y p r o v i d e r o f 2

e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y on op e r a t i on s wh e r e t h e p r i ma r y u s e o f 3

e qu i d s wa s r a c i ng a nd l e a s t l i k e l y on op e r a t i on s t h a t 4

u s e d e qu i d s p r i ma r i l y f o r p l e a s u r e a nd f a r m / r a n c h 5

wo r k . " 6

Ok a y . Now I am no t a s t a t i s t i c i an , I ' l l t e l l 7 Q .

you t ha t up f r on t , bu t my gue s s i s t ha t a mo r e a c cu r a t e 8

e v a l ua t i on o f t he l i k e l y ne ed f o r den t a l s e r v i c e s i n 9

M i s sou r i m i gh t be a ch i e v ed by a s s e s s i ng t he v a r i ous 10

t ype s o f ho r s e s r ep r e s en t ed i n t he ho r s e popu l a t i on i n 11

M i s sou r i , and t hen e x t r apo l a t i ng f r om t ha t t he numbe r s 12

i n t he cha r t on Page 22 , t he bo t t om o f Page 22 , whe r e 13

i t sugge s t s t he a v e r age i nc i den t s o f den t a l c a r e i n 14

t he s e d i f f e r en t t ype s o f ope r a t i ons . 15

D i d you t h i nk t ha t t ha t ' s a f a i r a s s e s smen t ? 16

I t h i n k t h e on l y qu a l i f i c a t i on i s t h a t y ou g e t 17 A .

i n t o d a ng e r ou s wa t e r s wh e n y ou ' r e t a k i ng a p e r c e n t o f a 18

p e r c e n t , b e c a u s e i t mudd i e s t h e wa t e r .19

We l l , and l i k e I s a i d , I am no t a s t a t i s t i c i an , 20 Q .

so I wou l d no t p r e sume t o s a y wha t t he conc l us i on wou l d 21

be o t he r t han t o s a y t ha t i t wou l d l i k e l y be mo r e 22

a c cu r a t e t han t he r e su l t s o f t he i n i t i a l s t udy . 23

I s t h a t f a i r ? 24

Ye a h . I f we h a d good numb e r s t o go b y , i t 25 A .

225

wou l d s u r e b e a l o t e a s i e r . 1

Ok a y . 2 Q .

I t h i n k t h e , t h e f a c t e x i s t s t h a t nobod y r e a l l y 3 A .

k nows how ma n y ho r s e s t h e r e a r e i n M i s s ou r i , a nd i t ' s 4

r e a l l y h a r d t o - - y ou k now , t h i s i s a n a t i onw i d e s t ud y , 5

a nd I wou l d gu e s s , s i n c e i t ' s no t s p e c i f i c t o M i s s ou r i , 6

I wou l d gu e s s t h a t t h e c o a s t s wou l d s k ew t ho s e numb e r s 7

a l s o . 8

Tha t i s pos s i b l e . Bu t t he s e a r e t he be s t 9 Q .

numbe r s t ha t we ha v e t o go on . And r i gh t now t he y show 10

t ha t t he l a r ge r an ope r a t i on ge t s , t he mo r e l i k e l y t he y 11

a r e t o us e a non - v e t e r i na r i an equ i ne den t i s t . And 12

a l so , t ha t r a c e t r a c k s a r e mo r e l i k e l y t o us e equ i ne 13

den t i s t s . 14

I s t ha t a f a i r a s s e s smen t o f t h i s i n f o r ma t i on?15

Wh e n y ou t a k e t h e n a t i on a s a who l e , y e s . 16 A .

Na t i on a s a who l e , ok a y . 17 Q .

Le t ' s s e e i f we c an ge t some be t t e r numbe r s 18

f r om M i s sou r i . Ok a y . Ha v e you e v e r s e en t he documen t 19

t ha t I am hand i ng you? 20

I t h i n k I d i d s e e i t on t h e I n t e r n e t , y e s . 21 A .

Ok a y , so you ha v e s e en some t h i ng l i k e t h i s 22 Q .

be f o r e? 23

Ye s . 24 A .

Look i ng a t i t , c an you s a y w i t h some c e r t a i n t y 25 Q .

226

t ha t t h i s i s a f a i r r ep r e s en t a t i on o f wha t you s aw on 1

t he I n t e r ne t ? 2


Ok a y . And t h i s i s t he Ame r i c an Ho r s e Counc i l 4 Q .

Founda t i on s t udy on The Econom i c I mpa c t o f t he M i s sou r i 5

Ho r s e I ndus t r y ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 6

Ye s . 7 A .

Ok a y . I f you ' l l l ook on Page 3 o f t h i s 8 Q .

documen t , i t p r ov i de s a coun t o f ho r s e s by t he t ype o f 9

a c t i v i t y t he ho r s e s a r e mos t l i k e l y t o be engaged i n . 10

I t ' s Tab l e 1 . Do you s e e t ha t ? 11

Ch a r t 1? Oh , no , T a b l e 1 , y e s .12 A .

Tab l e 1 . And i t g i v e s a b r e a kdown o f numbe r s , 13 Q .

a f a i r l y spe c i f i c b r e a kdown o f numbe r s . Cou l d you r e ad 14

t he d i f f e r en t c a t ego r i e s and t he numbe r s a s soc i a t ed 15

w i t h t hem i n Tab l e 1 . 16

Ye s . " Ra c i ng , 9 , 742 ; Show i ng , 65 , 345 ; 17 A .

Re c r e a t i on , 145 , 674 ; a nd O t h e r , 60 , 493 , f o r a To t a l o f 18

281 , 255 . " 19

Ok a y . I f you ' l l a l so l ook on Page 5 a t 20 Q .

Tab l e 6 . Wha t doe s t ha t appe a r t o be , Tab l e 6? 21

I t ' s a t a b l e o f b r e e d s , s ome b r e e d s o f ho r s e s 22 A .

s p l i t i n t o c a t e go r i e s o f u s e . 23

Ok a y , bu t , so i t g i v e s you some t h i ng t o go on 24 Q .

a s f a r a s bo t h b r e eds and t he t ype s o f a c t i v i t i e s t ha t 25

227

t hos e b r e eds m i gh t be engaged i n ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 1

Ye s .2 A .

And i t a l so come s t o a t o t a l o f 281 , 255 ho r s e s ; 3 Q .

co r r e c t ? 4


So my que s t i on i s : Ba s ed on t he numbe r s t ha t 6 Q .

we ha v e j us t r e v i ewed , do you s t i l l f e e l l i k e t he 7

c a l cu l a t i ons t ha t you had pe r f o r med a s f a r a s t he 8

demand f o r equ i ne den t a l s e r v i c e s a r e a c cu r a t e? 9

Ok a y , s a y t h a t a g a i n . 10 A .

Ok a y . You , you we r e c a l l ed t o i n t r oduc e 11 Q .

f i nd i ngs abou t t he demand f o r equ i ne s e r v i c e s i n 12

M i s sou r i ? 13

Uh - huh . 14 A .

And you ba s ed t hos e c a l cu l a t i ons on numbe r s 15 Q .

t ha t we ha v e now shown we r e no t co r r e c t ; i s t ha t 16

co r r e c t ? 17

I , I t h i n k we c a n , we c a n s a y t h a t I 18 A .

und e r e s t i ma t e d b y t h e 5 . 3 p e r c e n t . Howe v e r , I a l s o 19

t oo k i n t o a c c oun t - - I me a n , no t k now i ng - - t h e p r ob l em 20

i s we don ' t h a v e M i s s ou r i numb e r s f o r t h e p e r c e n t a g e o f 21

ho r s e s p r e s e n t e d f o r d e n t i s t r y . Th a t ' s t h e b i gg e s t 22

p r ob l em . We h a v e a n a t i onw i d e numb e r t h a t I t h i n k 23

p r ob a b l y i s no t - - I wou l d s a y t h a t t h a t wou l d b e o v e r 24

r e p r e s e n t e d f o r M i s s ou r i wou l d b e my gu e s s , j u s t b a s e d 25

228

upon wh a t I k now a bou t , y ou k now , d y n am i c s o f o t h e r 1

s t a t e s a nd ho r s e s a nd d e n t i s t r y a nd a l l o f t h a t . 2

I t h i n k t h e numb e r o f ho r s e s i n M i s s ou r i , I 3

t h i n k t h a t I l oo k e d a t a l o t o f d i f f e r e n t s t ud i e s , a nd 4

I d i d t a l k t o s ome bod y , I c a n ' t r ememb e r h i s n ame , h e ' s 5

l i k e t h e d e pu t y d i r e c t o r o f t h e NASS i n M i s s ou r i , J e f f 6

C i t y , a nd I t a l k e d w i t h h i m t h e o t h e r d a y a nd a s k e d 7

h i m , i n t h e 2007 s t ud y , t h e y i d e n t i f i e d 149 , 000 ho r s e s 8

i n t h e s t a t e o f M i s s ou r i . 9

And i f y ou l oo k - - I c ou l dn ' t f i nd i t i n a 10

M i s s ou r i do c ume n t , bu t I f ound i t i n a V i r g i n i a 11

do c ume n t t h a t l i s t e d ho r s e s i n M i s s ou r i , a nd i t wa s a l l 12

o v e r t h e bo a r d . I t d e p e nd e d upon who d i d t h e s t ud y , 13

how ma n y ho r s e s t h e r e we r e , a nd s o I don ' t k now . 14

I t h i n k t h a t nobod y r e a l l y k nows how ma n y 15

ho r s e s t h e r e a r e , un l e s s we go ou t a nd d r i v e a r ound i n 16

a t r u c k a nd s t a r t c oun t i ng . Bu t , y ou k now , we r e a l l y 17

don ' t k now , bu t I wou l d - - I don ' t k now - - I wou l d s a y 18

t h a t t h a t 5 . 3 numb e r i s no t a c c u r a t e , y e s . Bu t I do 19

no t k now - - i t c ou l d e v e n - - i t c ou l d b e l owe r t h a n 20

t h a t , po t e n t i a l l y , i n M i s s ou r i o r i t c ou l d b e h i gh e r 21

t h a n t h a t bu t we don ' t k now . And i t ' s h a r d t o u s e a 22

n a t i onw i d e numb e r b e c a u s e M i s s ou r i i s d e f i n i t e l y a 23

d i f f e r e n t s t a t e . 24

So wha t I he a r you s a y i ng i s t ha t you j us t 25 Q .

229

don ' t f e e l l i k e t he r e ' s any wa y t o come up w i t h an 1

a c cu r a t e e v a l ua t i on o f demand f o r equ i ne den t a l 2

s e r v i c e s ; i s t ha t wha t I he a r ? 3

I t h i n k - - no , t h e b e s t we c a n do i s , i s a 4 A .

gu e s s , t h a t i s c o r r e c t . 5

Ok a y . Wou l dn ' t i t be a p l aus i b l e a l t e r na t i v e 6 Q .

t o l e t t he ho r s e owne r s t hems e l v e s de t e r m i ne t he l e v e l 7

o f demand? 8

I t d e p e nd s on how y ou ' r e s t a t i ng t h a t . I me a n , 9 A .

I gu e s s i f y ou ' r e - -10

MR . TAYLOR : Ob j e c t i on , he ' s c a l l i ng f o r - - 11

spe cu l a t e abou t wha t ho r s e owne r s shou l d do , and t ha t ' s 12

no t wha t he ' s be en c a l l ed t o t e s t i f y t o t ha t . 13

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , I be l i e v e he wa s p r e s en t ed 14

a s an e xpe r t on equ i ne demand , o r t he demand f o r equ i ne 15

den t a l s e r v i c e s , and t h i s que s t i on i s d i r e c t l y r e l a t ed 16

t o t he demand f o r equ i ne den t a l s e r v i c e s i n M i s sou r i .17

MR . TAYLOR : I t wa sn ' t abou t t he demand - - 18


THE W I TNESS : Ok a y , r e s t a t e t ha t t o me , p l e a s e .20

( BY MR . ROLAND ) So you r a s s e s smen t abou t t he 21 Q .

demand f o r equ i ne den t a l s e r v i c e s wa s ba s ed on t he 22

numbe r o f v e t e r i na r i ans t ha t you t hough t wou l d be 23

app r op r i a t e f o r t he ho r s e s t ha t we r e ou t t he r e . 24

My que s t i on i s , i s t he r e a r e a son f o r a s sum i ng 25

230

t ha t ho r s e owne r s c an ' t ma k e t he i r own de c i s i ons abou t 1

who ' s go i ng t o p r ov i de t he i r s e r v i c e s i ns t e ad o f 2

s a y i ng , we ' v e go t enough v e t s f o r you? 3

MR . TAYLOR : Ob j e c t i on , t ha t doe sn ' t go t o demand 4

f o r den t a l s e r v i c e s , t ha t goe s t owa r ds , you know , mo r e 5

o f a po l i c y que s t i on , no t j us t s t r i c t demand f o r t he 6

ho r s e popu l a t i on . 7

THE COURT : I ' m go i ng t o ov e r r u l e t he ob j e c t i on , i f 8

you c an answe r t he que s t i on . 9

We l l I t h i n k i t ' s a l r e a d y b e e n e s t a b l i s h e d 10 A .

t od a y t h a t i f y ou wa n t t o t a l k a bou t f l o a t i ng ho r s e s ' 11

t e e t h , f o r a n e a s i e r d e f i n i t i on t h a n y ou a l r e a d y h a d , 12

f l o a t i ng ho r s e s ' t e e t h n e e d s t o b e p r e c e d e d b y a 13

ph y s i c a l e x am i n a t i on . So I t h i n k i t i s no t i n t h e 14

ho r s e ' s b e s t i n t e r e s t o r t h e ho r s e own e r ' s b e s t 15

i n t e r e s t t o h a v e s ome bod y t h a t do e s n ' t h a v e a good 16

und e r s t a nd i ng o f wh a t go e s on i n t h e mou t h t o do t ho s e 17

d e n t a l s e r v i c e s . 18

I me a n , t h a t wou l d b e k i nd o f l i k e h a v i ng 19

s ome bod y t h a t , y ou k now , wa l k e d i n o f f t h e s t r e e t w i t h 20

a s c a l p e l a nd s a i d , I ' l l do a n op e n h e a r t s u r g e r y f o r 21

$50 . You k now , I don ' t t h i n k I wou l d go f o r t h a t . 22

E v e n t hough t h e y ' d b e c h e a p e r , I t h i n k I ' d r a t h e r h a v e 23

s ome bod y t h a t ' s l i c e n s e d b y t h e s t a t e a nd h a s b e e n 24

s hown t o me e t c e r t a i n r e qu i r eme n t s . 25

231

Ok a y . So t o k i nd o f come a t t h i s aga i n , 1 Q .

pa r t i cu l a r l y t he 1998 USDA s t udy ha s shown t ha t a t 2

l e a s t on a na t i ona l s c a l e , a v e r y s i gn i f i c an t numbe r o f 3

ho r s e owne r s a r e choos i ng t o ha v e t he i r equ i ne den t a l 4

s e r v i c e s p r ov i ded by non - v e t e r i na r i ans ; i s t ha t 5

co r r e c t ? 6

Ac c o r d i ng t o t h e s t ud y t h a t wa s pub l i s h e d i n 7 A .

1998 , y e s . 8

Ok a y . Do you ha v e any r e a son t o be l i e v e t ha t 9 Q .

t he numbe r s ha v e changed app r e c i ab l y? 10

I do no t h a v e a n y s t ud i e s , no . 11 A .

So t he s e a r e t he be s t numbe r s t ha t we ha v e t o 12 Q .

go on? 13

I t h i n k t h e 2005 s t ud y , y e s . I t h i n k on e o f 14 A .

t h e i s s u e s i s t h a t e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y h a s , y ou k now , 15

b e c ome mo r e p r om i n e n t i n v e t e r i n a r y me d i c i n e , a nd t h e r e 16

a r e a l o t mo r e v e t e r i n a r i a n s do i ng i t now t h a n t h e r e 17

wou l d h a v e b e e n i n 1998 . I do k now t h a t , y e s . 18

Ok a y . Bu t t he be s t numbe r s t ha t we ha v e t o 19 Q .

l ook a t a r e t he numbe r s t ha t a r e r e f l e c t ed i n t ha t 1998 20

s t udy? 21

Wh i c h we c a n ' t r e a l l y ma k e v e r y ma n y 22 A .

i n t e r p r e t a t i on s on b e c a u s e o f t h e wa y t h e y ' r e s t a t e d , 23

y e s . 24

Ok a y . Bu t t he be s t numbe r s we ha v e a r e i n t ha t 25 Q .

232

' 98 s t udy ; co r r e c t ? 1

I don ' t t h i n k s o ; I t h i n k t h e 2005 s t ud y i s 2 A .

b e t t e r . Be c a u s e i t ' s mo r e r e c e n t i n f o r ma t i on .3

MR . ROLAND : I ' d l i k e t o i n t r oduc e - - I ' m so r r y . 4

THE COURT : You ' v e no t o f f e r ed t hos e i n . 5

MR . ROLAND : Tha t one i s 5 , t h i s one i s 6 . 6

You r Hono r , I wou l d l i k e t o o f f e r t he s e a s 7

De f endan t ' s Exh i b i t s 5 and 6 . 8

(De f endan t ' s Exh i b i t s Nos . 5 and 6 we r e o f f e r ed9


THE COURT : M r . F r own f e l t e r ?11

MR . TAYLOR : No ob j e c t i on . 12

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . De f endan t ' s No . 5 and No . 6 13

w i l l be adm i t t ed . Thank you . 14

(De f endan t ' s Exh i b i t s Nos . 5 and 6 we r e adm i t t ed15


MR . ROLAND : And I be l i e v e I ha v e no f u r t he r 17

que s t i ons f o r t h i s w i t ne s s .18

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . No r ed i r e c t ? 19

MR . TAYLOR : I ha v e one mo r e que s t i on . 20

THE COURT : Ok a y , go ahe ad .21


23

24

25

233


BY MR . TAYLOR :2

Do you be l i e v e ba s ed on a l l you know and ha v e 3 Q .

he a r d t oda y , i n sp i t e o f v e t e r i na r i ans f o r equ i ne 4

den t i s t r y i n t he S t a t e o f M i s sou r i , i nc l ud i ng t oo t h 5

f l oa t i ng , i s su f f i c i en t t o me e t t he demand i n t he 6

s t a t e? 7

Ye s , I do .8 A .

MR . TAYLOR : Thank you . 9

No f u r t he r que s t i ons , You r Hono r . 10


MR . FROWNFELTER : I ' d l i k e t o c a l l M r . Na t Me s s e r . 12

THE COURT : S t ep f o r wa r d , r a i s e you r r i gh t hand and 13

be swo r n .14

15

NATHAN I EL MESSER , du l y swo r n by t he Depu t y C i r cu i t 16

C l e r k .17

THE W I TNESS : I do .18

19



S t a t e and spe l l you r name f o r t he r e co r d , 22 Q .

p l e a s e . 23

Fu l l name? 24 A .

Ye s . 25 Q .

234

Na t h a n i e l T . Me s s e r t h e f ou r t h . 1 A .

N - a - t - h - a - n - i - e - l i n i t i a l T . Me s s e r , I V . 2

And wha t i s you r bus i ne s s add r e s s? 3 Q .

900 E a s t Campu s D r i v e , Co l umb i a , M i s s ou r i . 4 A .


Ba s i c a l l y I ' m a v e t e r i n a r i a n , bu t I ' m a f a c u l t y 6 A .

membe r o f t he Un i v e r s i t y o f M i s sou r i Co l l ege o f 7

Ve t e r i n a r y Me d i c i n e .8

And how l ong ha v e you be en on t he f a cu l t y a t 9 Q .

t he Un i v e r s i t y o f M i s sou r i ? 10

I ' m i n my 23 r d y e a r .11 A .

I ' d l i k e you t o l ook a t wha t I ' v e ma r k ed a s 12 Q .

P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 36 . Wha t i s t ha t documen t , p l e a s e?13

Th a t ' s a c op y o f my c u r r i c u l um v i t a e .14 A .


Exh i b i t No . 36 i n t o e v i denc e .16


e v i denc e . ) 18


THE COURT : P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 36 w i l l be 20

adm i t t ed . 21


e v i denc e . ) 23

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER) Doc t o r Me s s e r , whe r e d i d 24 Q .

you ge t you r unde r g r adua t e educ a t i on? 25

235

I go t a b a c h e l o r o f s c i e n c e d e g r e e i n 1 A .

m i c r ob i o l og y f r om Co l o r a do S t a t e Un i v e r s i t y , a nd a l s o 2

my Do c t o r o f Ve t e r i n a r y Me d i c i n e d e g r e e f r om Co l o r a do 3

S t a t e Un i v e r s i t y . 4

And wha t pos t g r adua t e educ a t i on ha v e you had? 5 Q .

I ha v en ' t had any . 6 A .

D i d you go t o any g r adua t e s choo l ? 7 Q .

I d i dn ' t go t o g r adua t e s choo l . 8 A .

D i d you go t o any v e t e r i na r y co l l ege? 9 Q .

I we n t t o v e t e r i n a r y s c hoo l . 10 A .

And wha t s choo l d i d you go t o? 11 Q .

Co l o r a do S t a t e Un i v e r s i t y . I ' m s o r r y , I 12 A .

t hough t I s a i d t h a t .13

MR . ROLAND : You d i d .14


( BY MR . FROWNFELTER) Can you t e l l us - - how 16 Q .

l ong i s t he v e t e r i na r y p r og r am a t t he Un i v e r s i t y o f 17

M i s sou r i Ve t e r i na r y Schoo l ? 18

Th e p r o f e s s i on a l p r og r am i s f ou r y e a r s . 19 A .

Abou t how i s t ha t , t ha t t i me i n s choo l d i v i ded 20 Q .

up? 21

I t ' s a pp r o x i ma t e l y d i v i d e d 50 p e r c e n t b e t we e n 22 A .

d i d a c t i c i n s t r u c t i on o r c l a s s r oom i n s t r u c t i on a nd 23

50 p e r c e n t c l i n i c a l t r a i n i ng .24

A l l r i gh t . To wha t e x t en t do s t uden t s s epa r a t e 25 Q .

236

ou t i n t o spe c i a l i t i e s o r conc en t r a t i ons o f i n t e r e s t i n 1

v a r i ous spe c i e s o f an i ma l s du r i ng t he i r v e t e r i na r y 2

educ a t i on y e a r s?3

I t h i n k ma n y s t ud e n t s c ome w i t h a n i d e a o f 4 A .

wh e r e t h e y wa n t t o f o c u s t h e i r e du c a t i on , bu t t h e y mu s t 5

go t h r ough a c omp r e h e n s i v e v e t e r i n a r y t r a i n i ng p r og r am 6

f o r a l l o f t h e s e r v i c e s t h a t we do . 7

A l l o f t h e d i d a c t i c i n s t r u c t i on a l l s t ud e n t s go 8

t h r ough , a nd t h e n t h e c l i n i c a l s e r v i c e s , t h e y ' r e a l l 9

r e qu i r e d t o go t h r ough a l l o f ou r c l i n i c a l s e r v i c e s a t 10

l e a s t on c e . 11

Th e y a r e a f f o r d e d t i me t o h a v e wh a t a r e c a l l e d 12

f r e e b l o c k s o r e l e c t i v e oppo r t un i t i e s , a nd t ho s e a r e 13

t h e i n s t a n c e s wh e r e t h e y c a n f o c u s t h e i r e du c a t i on 14

b e y ond t h e g e n e r a l v e t e r i n a r y p r og r am . 15

How many c l i n i c a l b l oc k s a r e t he r e i n t o t a l ? 16 Q .

Th e r e ' s s e v e n c l i n i c a l b l o c k s . 17 A .

And how much o f t ha t i s add r e s s ed t o ho r s e s? 18 Q .

1 / 7 t h . 19 A .

Ok a y , i s i t pos s i b l e f o r a s t uden t t o ge t mo r e 20 Q .

t han 1 / 7 t h o f t he c l i n i c a l t i me i n e xpe r i enc e w i t h 21

ho r s e s? 22

Ye s , t h e y c a n c ome b a c k f o r - - t h e y c a n 23 A .

a c t u a l l y s p e nd t h e i r f r e e b l o c k s a t t h e un i v e r s i t y , o r 24

t h e y c a n c ome b a c k a nd t a k e e l e c t i v e s . And i f t h e y 25

237

c hoo s e t o t a k e a n e qu i n e e l e c t i v e t h e n t h e y ' l l b e b a c k 1

i n a n e qu i n e b l o c k . 2

Ok a y , wha t l e v e l o f con f i denc e o f e a ch an i ma l 3 Q .

spe c i e s i s a g r adua t e o f t he v e t e r i na r y p r og r am 4

e xpe c t ed t o ha v e? 5

Th e r e qu i r eme n t s f o r g r a du a t i on a nd f o r 6 A .

n a t i on a l bo a r d e x am i n a t i on a nd l i c e n s u r e a r e wh a t i s 7

c a l l e d e n t r y l e v e l p r a c t i c e . So i t ' s a b a s i c e du c a t i on 8

i n v o l v i ng a l l s p e c i e s o f a n i ma l s f r om t h e s t a ndpo i n t o f 9

a n a t omy , ph y s i o l og y , a l l t h e wa y t h r ough d i a gno s i s , 10

t r e a t me n t a nd und e r s t a nd i ng t h e p r ogno s i s . So i t ' s no t 11

c on s i d e r e d a n i n - d e p t h l e v e l o f k now l e dg e i n a n y 12

p a r t i c u l a r s ub j e c t ma t t e r . 13

I s t he r e an e xpe c t a t i on t ha t t he g r adua t e s i n 14 Q .

any o f t he s e un i t s w i l l come ou t p r o f i c i en t and ab l e t o 15

de a l w i t h comp l e x p r ob l ems r ega r d i ng t he an i ma l s t he y 16

t r e a t ? 17

Th e y ' l l b e a b l e t o r e a s on t h r ough t ho s e 18 A .

p r ob l ems . Th e y ma y no t h a v e , a c t u a l l y e x p e r i e n c e d a 19

mu l t i t ud e o f p r ob l ems t h a t we s e e , bu t t h e y ' l l h a v e t h e 20

t oo l s n e c e s s a r y t o wo r k t h r ough t ho s e p r ob l ems i n a 21

p r ob l em - o r i e n t e d f a s h i on . 22

Wha t ba s i c p r oc edu r e s do g r adua t e s l e a r n t o 23 Q .

pe r f o r m w i t h r ega r d t o a l l an i ma l s?24

I don ' t k now t h a t we h a v e t i me f o r t h a t . 25 A .

238

Jus t a gene r a l , i nd i c a t i on o f t he gene r a l a r e a s 1 Q .

t ha t t he p r og r am cov e r s .2

P r o c e du r e s , a g a i n , a r e b a s i c p r o c e du r e s 3 A .

i n v o l v i ng ph y s i c a l e x am i n a t i on ; t h e o r d e r i ng a nd 4

i n t e r p r e t a t i on o f b a s i c l a bo r a t o r y t e s t s ; p e r f o r m i ng 5

m i no r s u r g e r i e s ; do i ng v e n a pun c t u r e s a nd o t h e r t y p e s 6

o f i n j e c t i on s ; pu t t i ng i n i n t r a v e nou s c a t h e t e r s ; 7

c a t h e t e r i z i ng t h e b l a dd e r ; do i ng r e c t a l p a l p a t i on ; 8

a u s c u l t a t i ng t h e h e a r t a nd l ung s , a bdome n ; do i ng a 9

v a r i e t y o f b a s i c e x am i n a t i on s t h a t i n v o l v e t h e v a r i ou s 10

s y s t ems , s u c h a s t h e r e s p i r a t o r y s y s t em , n e r v ou s 11

s y s t em , d i g e s t i v e s y s t em . 12

How much e xposu r e do t he y ha v e on i s sue s l i k e 13 Q .

pha r ma co l ogy , ane s t he t i c s , t hos e k i nd o f t h i ng? 14

We l l t h e y h a v e t r a i n i ng bo t h i n d i d a c t i c 15 A .

c l a s s e s , wh e r e t h e y a r e , h a v e l e a r n e d a l l t h e 16

p r i n c i p l e s o f t h e d i f f e r e n t ph a r ma c e u t i c a l a g e n t s , a nd 17

t h e n t h e y a pp l y t h a t i n t h e c l i n i c s . So ho r s e s t h a t 18

a r e i n ou r ho s p i t a l o r on ou r ambu l a t o r y s e r v i c e a r e 19

f r e qu e n t l y t r e a t e d w i t h me d i c a t i on s , a nd t h e s ame i n 20

t h e sma l l a n i ma l c l i n i c s , s o s t ud e n t s g e t a v e r y 21

h a nd s - on e x p e r i e n c e w i t h no t on l y s e l e c t i ng , 22

p r e s c r i b i ng , c a l c u l a t i ng do s a g e s , a dm i n i s t e r i ng 23

me d i c a t i on s , l oo k i ng f o r t h e a d v e r s e e f f e c t s o f t ho s e 24

me d i c a t i on s i n t h e i r p a t i e n t s . 25

239

When do t he y l e a r n abou t r ad i og r aphy?1 Q .

Ag a i n , t h e y h a v e c l a s s e s , d i d a c t i c c l a s s e s i n 2 A .

r a d i o l og y , a nd t h e n t h e y p a r t i c i p a t e i n ob t a i n i ng 3

r a d i og r a ph s a nd i n t e r p r e t i ng t h e r a d i og r a ph s i n t h e 4

c l i n i c a l s e t t i ng . 5

Doe s t he cu r r i cu l um add r e s s i s sue s o f s a f e t y i n 6 Q .

r ad i og r aphy?7

Ye a h , r a d i a t i on s a f e t y i s a v e r y i mpo r t a n t a nd 8 A .

s e r i ou s t op i c . And t h e e f f e c t s o f s c a t t e r r a d i a t i on o r 9

unn e c e s s a r y e x po s u r e t o r a d i a t i on i s r e a l l y emph a s i z e d 10

a l o t i n t h e c u r r i c u l um . 11

So wha t e x t en t doe s t he cu r r i cu l um add r e s s 12 Q .

i s sue s o f den t i s t r y? 13

Th a t ' s on e o f t h e t op i c s t h a t ' s c o v e r e d bo t h i n 14 A .

t h e sma l l a n i ma l c l i n i c a nd i n t h e e qu i n e c l i n i c . Th e y 15

h a v e d i d a c t i c l e c t u r e s i n t h e sma l l me d i c i n e , sma l l 16

a n i ma l s u r g e r y b l o c k s . Th e y g e t d i d a c t i c l e c t u r e s i n 17

e qu i n e me d i c i n e a nd s u r g e r y b l o c k , a nd s o t h e y h a v e 18

t h a t d e g r e e o f e x po s u r e . And t h e n i n c l i n i c s , a g a i n , 19

a n y c a s e s t h a t p r e s e n t a s d e n t i s t r y c a s e s o r d e n t a l 20

c a s e s , t h e s t ud e n t s a r e i n t i ma t e l y i n v o l v e d i n ma n a g i ng 21

t ho s e c a s e s und e r t h e s up e r v i s i on o f t h e i r f a c u l t y 22

memb e r s . 23

How much c l a s s r oom t i me i s de vo t ed t o , 24 Q .

spe c i f i c a l l y t o equ i ne den t i s t r y? 25

240

Th r e e hou r s o f d i d a c t i c i n s t r u c t i on . 1 A .

I f a g r adua t e we r e t o comp l e t e t he p r og r am and 2 Q .

go ou t i n t o t he wo r l d w i t h , no t ha v i ng de vo t ed any 3

pa r t i cu l a r a t t en t i on i n t e r ms o f e l e c t i v e s o r o t he r 4

de l i be r a t e e f f o r t s t o conc en t r a t e on den t i s t r y o r on 5

equ i ne den t i s t r y , wha t l e v e l o f compe t enc e wou l d you 6

e xpe c t t ha t pe r son t o ha v e , i f onc e i n p r a c t i c e t he y 7

we r e e xpos ed t o an equ i ne den t a l i s sue?8

We l l , hop e f u l l y t h e y wou l d b e a b l e t o do t h e 9 A .

e x am i n a t i on a nd ma k e a d i a gno s i s . Th e y ma y no t b e 10

p a r t i c u l a r l y a d e p t t o c o r r e c t i ng t h e p r ob l em o r 11

t r e a t i ng t h e p r ob l em , b e c a u s e t h e c h a n c e s o f - - f i r s t 12

o f a l l , a l l s t ud e n t s a r e no t go i ng t o b e a b l e t o do 13

t h a t , I ' l l j u s t s a y t h a t r i gh t o f f t h e b a t . 14

A l l s t ud e n t s c a nno t b e c ome p r o f i c i e n t a t a l l 15

p r o c e du r e s i n a l l a n i ma l s . And s o i f a s t ud e n t go e s 16

i n t o a n e qu i n e p r a c t i c e , mo r e t h a n l i k e l y t h a t s t ud e n t 17

h a s f o c u s e d t h e i r a t t e n t i on on e qu i n e me d i c i n e a nd 18

s u r g e r y du r i ng t h e i r e l e c t i v e oppo r t un i t i e s . And s o 19

t h e y ' r e go i ng t o b e mo r e a d e p t a t do i ng t h a t t h a n t h e 20

a v e r a g e s t ud e n t i s who h a s no i n t e r e s t i n e qu i n e 21

p r a c t i c e . 22

Ok a y , wha t i s you r unde r s t and i ng o r de f i n i t i on 23 Q .

o f wha t cons t i t u t e s v e t e r i na r y den t i s t r y? 24

Ve t e r i n a r y d e n t i s t r y wou l d b e und e r s t a nd i ng t h e 25 A .

241

a n a t omy , ph y s i o l og y o f a n y t h i ng a s s o c i a t e d w i t h t h e 1

ho r s e ' s t e e t h a nd o r a l c a v i t y , a nd a l l o f t h e 2

a s s o c i a t e d s t r u c t u r e s t o t h e t e e t h , s u c h a s t h e 3

s i nu s e s , t h e n e r v e s , t h e bon e y a l v e o l i wh e r e t h e t e e t h 4

a r e l o c a t e d , a nd s o i t ' s p r e t t y mu c h a l o t o f wh a t h a s 5

t o do w i t h t h e h e a d . 6

A r e t he r e any - - how doe s equ i ne den t i s t r y 7 Q .

d i f f e r f r om den t i s t r y f o r o t he r l a r ge an i ma l s , such a s 8

c a t t l e? 9

I h a v e n ' t wo r k e d on a c ow s i n c e I go t ou t o f 10 A .

v e t e r i n a r y s c hoo l 40 y e a r s a go , s o I ' m no t t h e on e t o 11

a s k a bou t t h a t , r e a l l y . I don ' t - - I don ' t h e a r o f o r 12

s e e p e op l e i n ou r f ood a n i ma l c l i n i c do i ng d e n t a l 13

p r o c e du r e s on c a t t l e , s o I wou l d , b a s e d on t h a t 14

e x p e r i e n c e , I wou l d s a y t h a t i t ' s m i n i ma l i n t h e f ood 15

a n i ma l a r e n a . 16

Wha t i s d i f f e r en t abou t t r e a t i ng ho r s e s? 17 Q .

Ho r s e s a r e p r ob a b l y a l o t mo r e v o l a t i l e 18 A .

p a t i e n t . Th e y t e nd t o r e a c t t o t h i ng s t h a t h a pp e n i n 19

t h e i r e n v i r onme n t . Th e y t e nd t o r e a c t t o p a i n f u l 20

s t i mu l i p r ob a b l y mo r e t h a n c a t t l e . Wh e n y ou wo r k on 21

mo s t c a t t l e t h e y ' r e p r e t t y we l l ph y s i c a l l y r e s t r a i n e d 22

i n a c hu t e o r a n a l l e ywa y ; a nd ho r s e s don ' t , don ' t 23

r e a l l y r e s pond we l l a t a l l t o t h a t s o r t o f r e s t r a i n t . 24

A s qu e e z e s hoo t w i t h a h e a d c a t c h a nd t h e t h i ng s t h a t 25

242

a r e u s e d t o wo r k c a t t l e a r e n ' t go i ng t o wo r k f o r 1

ho r s e s . 2

How do you de f i ne t he t e r m t oo t h f l oa t i ng? 3 Q .

Too t h f l o a t i ng wou l d b e f i l i ng o f s h a r p e n ame l 4 A .

po i n t s t h a t d e v e l op on t h e c h e e k s i d e o f t h e upp e r 5

t e e t h a nd t h e t ongu e s i d e o f t h e l owe r t e e t h . 6

Wha t k i nds o f p r oc edu r e s a r e i nvo l v ed i n t oo t h 7 Q .

f l oa t i ng? 8

We l l , y ou c a n u s e h a nd i n s t r ume n t s wh i c h a r e 9 A .

c a l l e d d e n t a l f l o a t s , o r y ou c a n u s e powe r e qu i pme n t 10

wh i c h i s a mo t o r i z e d d e v i c e t h a t me c h a n i c a l l y f i l e s o f f 11

t h e e n ame l po i n t s t h a t f o r m . 12

I n you r wo r k do you cons i de r you r s e l f a 13 Q .

p r a c t i c i ng v e t e r i na r i an? 14

Ye s . 15 A .

And app r ox i ma t e l y , c an you g i v e us any e s t i ma t e 16 Q .

abou t how many v e t e r i na r y pa t i en t s you wou l d s e e i n a 17

we e k? 18

I n a we e k ? An ywh e r e f r om f i v e t o e i gh t c a s e s 19 A .

p e r we e k i n ou r s e c t i on , i n t h e me d i c i n e s e c t i on . 20

I s t ha t spe c i f i c t o ho r s e s o r - - 21 Q .

Ye s , j u s t ho r s e s t h a t c ome i n t o me a nd my 22 A .

g r oup o f s t ud e n t s . 23

And you wou l d be p r ov i d i ng den t a l c a r e , o r 24 Q .

v e t e r i na r y c a r e t o t hem , o r supe r v i s i ng s t uden t s i n 25

243

do i ng so? 1

I f n e e d e d . Now i f y ou h a d - - how ma n y e qu i n e 2 A .

c a s e s do I h a v e ? We don ' t h a v e ma y b e t h a t ma n y e qu i n e 3

c a s e s t h a t c ome i n t o t h e ho s p i t a l t h a t r e qu i r e d e n t a l 4

i n t e r v e n t i on s , bu t we s e e a n ywh e r e f r om f i v e t o e i gh t , 5

ma y b e t e n ho r s e s p e r we e k w i t h v a r y i ng me d i c a l 6

p r ob l ems . 7

Ok a y . Go i ng ba c k t o t he v e r y beg i nn i ng o f you r 8 Q .

c a r e e r , wha t wa s t he f i r s t j ob you had a s a 9


I we n t t o wo r k a t a p r a c t i c e i n Co l o r a do c a l l e d 11 A .

L i t t l e t on L a r g e An i ma l C l i n i c , a nd I wo r k e d t h e r e f o r 12

15 y e a r s b e f o r e e n t e r i ng t h e a c a d em i c wo r l d . And I 13

g r ew up i n t h a t p r a c t i c e . Tho s e v e t e r i n a r i a n s a t t h a t 14

p r a c t i c e t oo k c a r e o f my d a d ' s ho r s e s , I g r ew up on a 15

ho r s e f a r m . So I wa s v e r y f am i l i a r w i t h ho r s e s , I wa s 16

v e r y f am i l i a r w i t h t ho s e v e t e r i n a r i a n s . 17

So wh e n I we n t t o wo r k , I b a s i c a l l y s t a r t e d 18

do i ng a l o t o f r ou t i n e v e t e r i n a r y c a r e e v e r y d a y , a nd 19

p a r t o f my du t i e s wh e n y ou ' r e a y oung v e t e r i n a r i a n i n a 20

p r a c t i c e , y ou g e t t o f l o a t t e e t h . And s o b a c k i n t ho s e 21

d a y s , t h a t wa s 40 y e a r s a go , I d i d a l o t o f h a nd 22

f l o a t i ng . I d i d i t w i t hou t s e d a t i on a nd w i t hou t 23

s p e c i a l i n s t r ume n t a t i on , a nd b a s e d on wh a t I k now now I 24

t h i n k I p r ob a b l y d i d a v e r y poo r j ob du r i ng t ho s e 25

244

t i me s . 1

Abou t how many ho r s e s a da y o r a we e k wou l d you 2 Q .

f l oa t t e e t h ba c k t hen? 3

We h a d , ou r p r a c t i c e h a d l a r g e s t a b l e s a nd a 4 A .

r a c e t r a c k , a nd s o we we r e g i v e n a l i s t o f c l i e n t s t o go 5

s e e e v e r y d a y , a nd we ' d p r ob a b l y do b e t we e n 10 a nd 12 6

ho r s e s a d a y , a nd howe v e r a s ma n y a s we c ou l d 7

ph y s i c a l l y , a s ph y s i c a l l y a b l e t o do , d e p e nd i ng on t h e 8

ho r s e s we r a n i n t o , s ome o f t ho s e ho r s e s d i dn ' t 9

c oop e r a t e , t h e y we r e h a r d e r t o do . 10

Do you s t i l l do t oo t h f l oa t i ng i n you r cu r r en t 11 Q .

c l i n i c a l wo r k? 12

Ye s . I do v e r y l i t t l e o f i t b e c a u s e I ' m 13 A .

gu i d i ng s t ud e n t s a nd i n t e r n s a nd r e s i d e n t s t h r ough 14

t h e i r p r o c e du r e s , bu t I s up e r v i s e a l l o f t ho s e 15

d i r e c t l y . 16

So i s t oo t h f l oa t i ng one o f t he p r oc edu r e s t ha t 17 Q .

you r s t uden t s w i l l be l e a r n i ng t o do i n you r c l i n i c a l 18

s e s s i ons? 19

Ye s . I f we ' r e p r e s e n t e d w i t h c a s e s t h a t n e e d 20 A .

d e n t a l wo r k , t h e s t ud e n t s a r e a l wa y s p a r t i c i p a t i ng i n 21

t h a t wo r k und e r ou r s up e r v i s i on . 22

Wha t i n you r v i ew i s t he cu r r en t s t anda r d o f 23 Q .

c a r e f o r app r oa ch i ng den t a l p r e s en t a t i on such a s t oo t h 24

f l oa t i ng? 25

245

We l l , ou r s t a nd a r d o f c a r e , a nd I t h i n k t h e 1 A .

s t a nd a r d o f c a r e o f mo s t p e op l e , I ' v e h e a r d s ome 2

t e s t i mon y t h i s mo r n i ng i s t h a t , f i r s t o f a l l y ou h e a r 3

a bou t wh a t t h e c l i e n t ' s c on c e r n e d a bou t , a nd t h e n y ou 4

do a t ho r ough ph y s i c a l e x am i n a t i on o f t h e a n i ma l . I f 5

t h e y s a y t h e y ' v e b r ough t t h e ho r s e i n b e c a u s e o f a 6

p e r c e i v e d d e n t a l p r ob l em , t h e n y ou p r o c e e d on a nd do a 7

t ho r ough o r a l c a v i t y e x am i n a t i on und e r s e d a t i on w i t h a 8

s p e c u l um i n p l a c e . And t h e n y ou ma k e a d i a gno s i s . And 9

t h e n y ou i n s t i t u t e t r e a t me n t i f t r e a t me n t i s 10

a pp r op r i a t e . And y ou d i s c u s s t r e a t me n t op t i on s w i t h 11

t h e c l i e n t s o t h a t t h e y h a v e s o r t o f a c ho i c e o f , t h i s 12

i s t h e b e s t wa y t o do i t , t h i s wou l d b e a c c e p t a b l e , 13

t h i s m i gh t no t b e t h e b e s t wa y t o do i t , a nd we a t t a c h 14

a f e e t o t h a t s o t h a t t h e y h a v e a n e s t i ma t e o f wh a t 15

t ho s e p r o c e du r e s a r e go i ng t o c o s t . 16

I t i s some t i me s s a i d t ha t t oo t h f l oa t i ng i s 17 Q .

k i nd o f a r ou t i ne a c t i v i t y t ha t shou l d be pe r f o r med on 18

a l l ho r s e s a t some k i nd o f i n t e r v a l , some s a y s i x 19

mon t hs , some s a y a y e a r . Wou l d you ag r e e w i t h t he 20

a s s e s smen t t ha t t ha t k i nd o f c y c l i c a l pe r f o r manc e o f 21

t oo t h f l oa t i ng i s , med i c a l l y spe a k i ng , a v a l i d 22

r e commenda t i on? 23

I t ' s no t a v a l i d r e c omme nd a t i on , a nd I don ' t 24 A .

t h i n k t h e r e i s a n y e v i d e n c e t o s ugg e s t t h a t i t n e e d s t o 25

246

b e don e t h a t f r e qu e n t l y . I t s hou l d b e don e on a n 1

a s - n e e d e d b a s i s b a s e d upon a d i a gno s i s t h a t wa s a r r i v e d 2

a t i n a t ho r ough e x am i n a t i on o f t h e ho r s e ' s o r a l 3

c a v i t y .4

A l l r i gh t . I n t he cou r s e o f you r p r a c t i c e o r 5 Q .

i n you r wo r k a t t he un i v e r s i t y , do you k e ep cu r r en t 6

w i t h s cho l a r l y ma t e r i a l s r ega r d i ng t he adv anc emen t o f 7

t he a r t ? 8

I t r y t o . 9 A .

A r e you f am i l i a r w i t h any r e s e a r ch i n r e c en t 10 Q .

y e a r s t ha t ha s add r e s s ed t he que s t i on o f t he bene f i t o f 11

r egu l a r t oo t h ad j us t men t , t oo t h f l oa t i ng , o r oc c l us a l 12

ad j us t men t ?13

Th e r e ' s a v e t e r i n a r i a n who ' s a t t h e Un i v e r s i t y 14 A .

o f Sa s k a t oon , o r h a s b e e n , I don ' t k now i f h e ' s s t i l l 15

t h e r e , t h a t h a s pub l i s h e d a numb e r o f p a p e r s wh e r e h e 16

h a s don e s t ud i e s t o l oo k a t t h e e f f e c t s o f f l o a t i ng on 17

ho r s e s , v a r i e t y o f t h i ng s , p e r f o r ma n c e , we i gh t g a i n , 18

f e e d d i g e s t i b i l i t y , a nd s ome o f t h e me c h a n i c s , t h e 19

b i ome c h a n i c o f t h e ho r s e ' s mou t h , bu t h e h a s b a s i c a l l y 20

c ome t o t h e c on c l u s i on t h a t t h e r e i s no t mu c h 21

d i f f e r e n c e b e t we e n l oo k i ng a t t ho s e p a r ame t e r s i n 22

ho r s e s t h a t h a d b e e n f l o a t e d a nd ho r s e s t h a t h a dn ' t 23

b e e n f l o a t e d . So b a s i c a l l y t h e r e wa s no d i f f e r e n c e 24

b e t we e n t h e p l a c e bo g r oup o r t h e un t r e a t e d g r oup a nd 25

247

t h e t r e a t e d g r oup i n t h e s t ud i e s t h a t h e c ondu c t e d . 1

I f t he s c i en t i f i c - - do you f i nd - - how 2 Q .

c r ed i b l e do you f i nd t h i s r e s e a r ch? 3

He ' s a bo a r d c e r t i f i e d s u r g e on , I t h i n k a v e r y 4 A .

c omp e t e n t v e t e r i n a r i a n . I t h i n k h i s r e s e a r c h h a s b e e n 5

we l l r e c ogn i z e d a nd r e s p e c t e d b y t h e v e t e r i n a r y 6

c ommun i t y , f i n e v e t e r i n a r y c ommun i t y . 7

I shou l d p r obab l y a s k you , wha t i s t he name o f 8 Q .

t h i s r e s e a r che r ? 9

J ame s Ca r ma l t . 10 A .

Ha v e t he pub l i c a t i ons by M r . Ca r ma l t , o r Doc t o r 11 Q .

Ca r ma l t a f f e c t ed i n any wa y t he r e commenda t i ons t ha t 12

you ma k e t o peop l e who p r e s en t a t t he c l i n i c i n t e r ms 13

o f how t he y shou l d , wha t shou l d be done t o p r e s e r v e t he 14

ho r s e ' s den t a l he a l t h? 15

Ye a h , I t h i n k a l l n ew s c i e n t i f i c e v i d e n c e 16 A .

c h a ng e s my a pp r o a c h , o t h e r w i s e I ' d b e p r e t t y s t a gn a n t 17

i n my a pp r o a c h t o t h i ng s . Bu t f o r y e a r s t h e r e we r e a 18

numb e r o f c l a i ms ma d e a s t o t h e b e n e f i t s o f f l o a t i ng , 19

a nd h e h a s s o r t o f c h a ng e d t h a t t h i n k i ng b y t h e 20

r e s e a r c h t h a t h e ' s don e . And s o I don ' t ma k e t h e s ame 21

r e c omme nd a t i on s o r c l a i ms a bou t t h e p r o c e du r e . F o r 22

e x amp l e , I don ' t t e l l own e r s t h a t i f I f l o a t y ou r 23

ho r s e s ' t e e t h I ' m go i ng t o i mp r o v e t h e i r p e r f o r ma n c e o r 24

I ' m go i ng t o i mp r o v e t h e i r a b i l i t y t o d i g e s t f ood o r 25

248

t h e y ' r e go i ng t o g a i n we i gh t i f I f l o a t t h e i r t e e t h , 1

s o , y e s , I h a v e c h a ng e d my a pp r o a c h . 2

I n you r op i n i on doe s t he r e s e a r ch o f 3 Q .

Doc t o r Ca r ma l t i n f l uenc e t he , wha t t r e a t men t 4

r e commenda t i on shou l d be r ega r d i ng whe t he r f l oa t i ng 5

shou l d be pe r f o r med? 6

We l l a g a i n , y ou l oo k a t a ho r s e ' s mou t h a nd do 7 A .

a n e x am , a nd i f t h e ho r s e h a s s i gn i f i c a n t s h a r p e n ame l 8

po i n t s a nd t h e y a r e c a u s i ng a p r ob l em i n t h e ho r s e ' s 9

mou t h t h a t y ou c a n s e e b a s e d on y ou r e x am i n a t i on , t h e n 10

y ou wou l d ma k e a r e c omme nd a t i on t o do t h e r emo v a l o f 11

t h e s h a r p e n ame l po i n t s t o p r e v e n t t ho s e f r om c a u s i ng 12

p a i n o r i n j u r y i n t h e ho r s e ' s mou t h . 13

I f y ou j u s t l oo k i n a ho r s e ' s mou t h , wh i c h we 14

o f t e n do i n ho r s e s t h a t h a v e no h i s t o r y o f a n y d e n t a l 15

p r o c e du r e s don e , a nd y ou l oo k i n t h e r e a nd y ou s e e s ome 16

s h a r p e n ame l po i n t s , t h e r e ' s no s o r e s i n t h e mou t h , t h e 17

t e e t h a r e l e v e l , t h e r e ' s no a pp a r e n t p r ob l ems go i ng i n 18

t h e ho r s e ' s mou t h , I don ' t r e c omme nd t h a t t h a t ho r s e b e 19

f l o a t e d b e c a u s e i t ' s - - I t h i n k t h a t i n s t a n c e po i n t s 20

ou t t h e v a l i d i t y o f Do c t o r Ca r ma l t ' s r e c omme nd a t i on 21

t h a t i t ' s no t c a u s i ng t h e ho r s e a n y p r ob l em . 22

A coup l e o f t e r ms t ha t you some t i me s he a r i n 23 Q .

t h i s a r e a . Wha t i s oc c l us a l ad j us t men t ? 24

Oh , i t p r ob a b l y me a n s d i f f e r e n t t h i ng s t o 25 A .

249

d i f f e r e n t p e op l e . Th e r e ' s a who l e n ew wa v e o f 1

t e r m i no l og y b e i ng a pp l i e d t o d e n t i s t r y , a nd o c c l u s a l 2

a d j u s t me n t t o me me a n s l e v e l i ng t h e a r c a d e s s o t h a t t h e 3

c h e e k t e e t h a r e oppo s i ng on e a no t h e r i n a no r ma l 4

f a s h i on . 5

I t ' s r e a l i mpo r t a n t f o r t h e t op t oo t h a nd t h e 6

bo t t om t oo t h t o oppo s e on e a no t h e r i n a p r op e r no r ma l 7

a l i gnme n t . And s o i f t h a t ' s ou t o f wh a c k a s f a r a s a n 8

un e v e n we a r i n t h e ho r s e ' s mou t h , a nd t o me t h a t ' s wh a t 9

o c c l u s a l a d j u s t me n t me a n s , i s y ou c h a ng e t h a t b a c k t o 10

a s c l o s e t o no r ma l a s y ou c a n . 11

Wha t i s equ i l i b r a t i on? 12 Q .

Th a t ' s a f i v e - do l l a r wo r d f o r f l o a t i ng i n my 13 A .

op i n i on . 14

Wha t ' s t he r e l a t i onsh i p be t we en oc c l us a l 15 Q .

ad j us t men t and f l oa t i ng , o r equ i l i b r a t i on? 16

We l l , a g a i n , c l a i ms a r e ma d e t h a t f l o a t i ng 17 A .

h e l p s ma i n t a i n o c c l u s a l e qu i l i b r a t i on . And I , I gu e s s 18

I h a v e n ' t s e e n a l o t o f good s c i e n t i f i c e v i d e n c e t h a t 19

t h a t o c c u r s . On on e o f Do c t o r Ca r ma l t ' s p a p e r s s o r t o f 20

go t a t t h a t i n d i s c u s s i ng t h e f a c t o f t h e me c h a n i c s o f 21

t h e mou t h . Bu t f l o a t i ng t e e t h o r r emo v i ng t h e s h a r p 22

e n ame l po i n t s wh e n t h e y ' r e c a u s i ng t h e ho r s e p a i n o r 23

i n j u r y I t h i n k i s i mpo r t a n t a nd o t h e r w i s e i t ' s p r ob a b l y 24

h i gh l y o v e r r a t e d . 25

250

Whe r e doe s t oo t h f l oa t i ng f i t i n t o t he ov e r a l l 1 Q .

o r gan i z a t i on o f equ i ne den t i s t r y? 2

We l l i t ' s p a r t o f t a k i ng c a r e o f a ho r s e ' s 3 A .

mou t h . And s o wh e n f l o a t i ng i s n e c e s s a r y , i t ' s my 4

op i n i on t h a t i t ' s a v e t e r i n a r y p r o c e du r e t o do t h a t . 5

A r e t he r e any k i nds o f ha r m t ha t c an r e su l t 6 Q .

f r om t he pe r f o r manc e o f a f l oa t i ng p r oc edu r e? 7

Oh , now ho r s e s c a n b e h a r me d f r om a n y d e n t a l 8 A .

p r o c e du r e . I f t h e ho r s e i s no t r e s t r a i n e d p r op e r l y , i f 9

i t ' s no t s e d a t e d , i f i t do e s n ' t h a v e p r op e r s p e c u l um i n 10

t h e mou t h , op e n t h e mou t h . Ho r s e s mo v e r a p i d l y ; w i t h 11

t h e s e i n s t r ume n t s i n t h e i r mou t h t h e y c a n h a r m 12

t h ems e l v e s , hu r t t h ems e l v e s . 13

Th e y c a n b i t e down on a f l o a t a nd a c t u a l l y 14

f r a c t u r e a t oo t h . Th e y c a n - - i f f l o a t i ng i s don e 15

o v e r a gg r e s s i v e l y a nd t oo mu c h o f t h e t oo t h i s r emo v e d , 16

y ou c a n i n v a d e s e n s i t i v e p a r t s o f t h e ho r s e ' s t oo t h 17

c a u s i ng p a i n a nd po s s i b l e i n f e c t i on . And I me a n , y ou 18

c a n a l s o c a u s e h a r m t o t h e p e op l e t h a t a r e a r ound t h e 19

ho r s e , s o y ou h a v e t o b e c a u t i ou s a bou t t h a t .20

Ok a y , l e t ' s t a l k a b i t abou t s eda t i on . To wha t 21 Q .

e x t en t i s s eda t i on ne c e s s a r y i n o r de r - - suppos e t ha t a 22

ho r s e i s b r ough t i n t o t he c l i n i c and t he owne r 23

i den t i f i e s t he ne ed a s be i ng - - t ha t t he ho r s e ne eds t o 24

ha v e i t s t oo t h f l oa t ed be c aus e somebody t o l d t he owne r 25

251

t ha t t h i s shou l d be done e v e r y now and t hen , so t he 1

owne r p r e s en t s t he ho r s e f o r t ha t pu r pos e . To wha t 2

r o l e wou l d i t be ne c e s s a r y t o emp l oy s eda t i on i n 3

unde r t a k i ng t ha t p r oc edu r e? 4

I f we ' r e go i ng t o do a t ho r ough e x am i n a t i on o f 5 A .

a l l t h e t e e t h a nd t h e o r a l c a v i t y wh i c h i s , s hou l d b e 6

p a r t o f t h e p l a n , t h e ho r s e n e e d s t o b e s e d a t e d . Th e r e 7

a r e s ome ho r s e s t h a t a r e p e t t y t o l e r a n t o f i t , bu t I 8

h a v e y e t b e e n a b l e t o r e a l l y pu t a f u l l mou t h s p e c u l um 9

on a ho r s e , op e n i t t o t h e e x t e n t t h a t I n e e d t o , a nd 10

e x am i n e t h e ho r s e ' s o r a l c a v i t y s a f e l y f o r t h e ho r s e 11

a nd me a nd t h e s t ud e n t s . And r ememb e r , I ' v e go t t o 12

h a v e - - I ' v e go t t o l e t a s t ud e n t g e t i n t h a t mou t h a s 13

we l l a nd l oo k a nd f e e l a nd v i s u a l i z e t h i ng s , s o 14

s e d a t i on i s v e r y i mpo r t a n t . 15

And I t h i n k i n t od a y ' s wo r l d i f we don ' t do t h e 16

e x am a nd d i a gno s i s p a r t , we ' r e b e i ng n e g l i g e n t i n t h e 17

c a r e o f t h a t ho r s e ' s mou t h . So s e d a t i on i s v e r y 18

i mpo r t a n t , b a s i c a l l y . 19

A l l r i gh t . To wha t e x t en t do you t h i nk t he us e 20 Q .

o f a spe cu l um i s pa r t o f t he cu r r en t s t anda r d o f c a r e? 21

Shou l d b e . Shou l d b e p a r t o f t h e s t a nd a r d o f 22 A .

c a r e . I t ' s - - I wa s t a ugh t ma n y y e a r s a go t o p a l p a t e a 23

ho r s e ' s mou t h w i t hou t s e d a t i on . I c a n s t i l l do t h a t . 24

I wou l dn ' t d a r e t r u s t s t ud e n t s t o s t i c k t h e i r h a nd i n 25

252

t h e r e a nd do t h a t . Bu t I s t i l l c a n ' t v i s u a l i z e t h e 1

e n t i r e ho r s e ' s mou t h w i t hou t a s p e c u l um .2

Wha t r i s k s - - suppos e t ha t a pe r son unde r t ook 3 Q .

e x am i n i ng t he ho r s e ' s mou t h i n pe r f o r m i ng f l oa t i ng 4

w i t hou t t he us e o f s eda t i on . Wha t r i s k s wou l d t ha t 5

pos e e i t he r t o t he ho r s e o r t o t he humans i nvo l v ed i n 6

t he p r oc edu r e? 7

So how wou l d t h e y b e e x am i n i ng t h e ho r s e ? J u s t 8 A .

v i s u a l l y w i t h a l i gh t i l l um i n a t i on o r a r e t h e y go i ng t o 9

r e a c h i n a nd p a l p a t e t h e ho r s e ' s t e e t h , o r a r e t h e y 10

go i ng t o p a l p a t e t h e t ongu e ? I me a n , t h e r e ' s a l o t o f 11

v a r i a b l e s t h e r e . 12

Ag a i n , I s a i d I wa s t a ugh t t o r e a c h i n a 13

ho r s e ' s mou t h , c l e a r t o t h e i r l a s t t oo t h , l a s t mo l a r , 14

a nd p a l p a t e e a c h t oo t h , a nd t h e r e ' s a t e c hn i qu e t o do 15

t h a t . I t ' s no t v e r y s a f e i f y ou h a v e n ' t don e i t 16

b e f o r e . And e v e n i f y ou ' v e don e i t a s ma n y t i me s a s I 17

h a v e , I c a n s how y ou s c a r s on my f i ng e r s t h a t i t wa s n ' t 18

v e r y s a f e , so . . . 19

And t od a y w i t h t h e i n s t r ume n t a t i on t h a t we h a v e 20

a v a i l a b l e a nd t h e k now l e dg e t h a t we h a v e a bou t h i dd e n 21

p r ob l ems i n ho r s e s ' mou t h s , we n e e d t o do a s p e c u l um 22

e x am , a nd t h e on l y s a f e wa y t o do t h a t f o r t h e ho r s e 23

a nd t h e p e op l e a r ound t h e ho r s e i s w i t h s e d a t i on . 24

Wha t k i nd o f s eda t i v e s a r e us ed f o r t h i s 25 Q .

253

pu r pos e? 1

Th e t y p e o f c h em i c a l o r t h e n ame s o r wh a t ?2 A .

Ye s . 3 Q .

We l l , A l ph a - 2 a gon i s t s a r e t h e p r i ma r y d r ug s 4 A .

u s e d . Tho s e a r e - - d r ug s l i k e x y l a z i n e , d e t om i d i n e , 5

a r y l me t h a d i n e , me d e t om i d i n e , t h e r e ' s a numb e r o f t h em 6

ou t on t h e ma r k e t . Th e y ' r e a l l p r e s c r i p t i on d r ug s u s e d 7

b y v e t e r i n a r i a n s e x c l u s i v e l y . 8

Do t he s e med i c a t i ons ha v e any e f f e c t o t he r t han 9 Q .

r educ i ng t he l e v e l o f a c t i v i t y o f t he ho r s e? 10

Ye a h , t h e y h a v e w i d e s p r e a d e f f e c t s . Th e y 11 A .

a f f e c t t h e c a r d i o v a s c u l a r s y s t em , t h e a f f e c t t h e 12

g a s t r o i n t e s t i n a l s y s t em . I f ho r s e s h a v e a f e v e r , f o r 13

e x amp l e , i f t h e y a r e f e b r i l e , wh i c h y ou wou l d d i s c o v e r 14

du r i ng y ou r r ou t i n e ph y s i c a l e x am i n a t i on , t ho s e d r ug s 15

c a n h a v e a n a d v e r s e e f f e c t on t h e r e s p i r a t o r y t r a c t . 16

So t h e y ' r e no t b e n i gn d r ug s t o u s e w i t hou t , w i t hou t t h e 17

s up e r v i s i on o f a v e t e r i n a r i a n .18

Ha v e you had any e xpe r i enc e s , spe c i f i c 19 Q .

e xpe r i enc e s you c an r e l a t e whe r e t he ne ed t o s eda t e a 20

ho r s e had e f f e c t on you r w i l l i ngne s s t o t r e a t a ho r s e 21

t ha t wa s p r e s en t ed f o r den t a l e x am i na t i on? 22

We h a v e t h a t h a pp e n f r e qu e n t l y . Th e l a s t c a s e 23 A .

I r ememb e r wa s , a c l i e n t b r ough t i n t wo ho r s e s , on e wa s 24

f o r a l amu s e x am i n ou r s u r g e r y s e r v i c e , a nd s h e bough t 25

254

t h e o t h e r ho r s e a l ong j u s t s i mp l y t o g e t i t s t e e t h 1

e x am i n e d a nd h a v e s ome d e n t a l wo r k don e . And s o we d i d 2

ou r ph y s i c a l e x am i n a t i on . 3

Sh e h a d no t h a d t h e ho r s e e x am i n e d b e f o r e 4

h a v i ng u s do i t , s o we d i d ou r ph y s i c a l e x am i n a t i on . 5

Th e ho r s e h a d a s i gn i f i c a n t c a r d i a c a r r y t hm i a t h a t we 6

d i s c o v e r e d on a u s c u l t a t i on o f t h e h e a r t , a nd b a s e d on 7

t h a t we c ho s e no t t o g i v e a n y s e d a t i on a nd t o l d h e r 8

t h a t ou r r e c omme nd a t i on wou l d b e t o h a v e a 9

c a r d i o v a s c u l a r e x am , e c ho c a r d i og r am a nd a n EKG . 10

And s o s h e a g r e e d t o do t h a t b e c a u s e s h e wa s 11

i n t e r e s t e d i n h e r ho r s e ' s we l l b e i ng , a nd we d i d t h a t , 12

a nd t h e ho r s e h a d a s i gn i f i c a n t h e a r t b l o c k p r ob l em 13

t h a t h a d we j u s t i nd i s c r i m i n a t e l y g i v e n x y l a z i n e o r a n y 14

o f t h e A l ph a a gon i s t s , we p r ob a b l y wou l d h a v e c r e a t e d a 15

mu c h wo r s e h e a r t b l o c k a nd ma y b e e v e n c a u s e d t h e ho r s e 16

t o c o l l a p s e . So we d i dn ' t do t h e d e n t i s t r y , s e d a t e d o r 17

un s e d a t e d . 18

I f s eda t i on i s r i s k i e r , a r e t he r e any 19 Q .

c i r cums t anc e s unde r wh i ch you c an s t i l l do t he den t a l 20


You c ou l d , a l t hough i f a ho r s e h a s c a r d i a c 22 A .

a noma l y o r a r r y t hm i a , y ou p r ob a b l y don ' t wa n t t o g e t 23

t h a t ho r s e t e r r i b l y e x c i t e d t h r ough j u s t b r u t e ph y s i c a l 24

r e s t r a i n t , bu t t h a t ' s , t h a t ' s t h e wa y we u s e d t o do i t . 25

255

We u s e d t o pu t a t w i t c h on t h em , pu t a l i p c h a i n on 1

t h em , ho l d t h e i r e a r , u s e a s hou l d e r ho l d , a l l o f t h e 2

d i f f e r e n t ph y s i c a l r e s t r a i n t t e c hn i qu e s t o ma k e ho r s e s 3

s t a nd s t i l l . Th a t ' s i f t h e ho r s e i s ob j e c t i ng . 4

Some ho r s e s , a s I s a y , h a v e a good t emp e r ame n t 5

a nd wou l d a l l ow y ou t o a t l e a s t l oo k i n t h e i r mou t h a nd 6

s h i n e a l i gh t b a c k t h e r e , bu t t o me t h a t ' s no t a good 7

t ho r ough o r a l e x am i n a t i on . And I ' v e f l o a t e d a l o t o f 8

ho r s e s ' t e e t h w i t h h a nd f l o a t s o v e r my t i me . Th a t ' s 9

a l l we h a d f o r 20 y e a r s . We d i dn ' t h a v e good 10

s e d a t i v e s , a nd a l l we h a d we r e h a nd f l o a t s , a nd I ' v e 11

don e a l o t o f t ho s e , a nd s o , y e a h , I c a n do i t w i t hou t 12

t h a t . I ' m no t s a y i ng i t ' s s a f e , I ' m no t s a y i ng i t ' s 13

t ho r ough , a nd i n t h i s d a y a nd a g e i t ' s p r ob a b l y no t 14

a pp r op r i a t e . 15

The r e ' s some who s a y t ha t ho r s emansh i p c an be 16 Q .

us ed a s an a l t e r na t i v e t o s eda t i on , t he s k i l l ed , pe r son 17

who i s s k i l l ed i n t he hand l i ng and commun i c a t i ng w i t h 18

ho r s e s c an , c an do t oo t h f l oa t i ng and o t he r den t a l 19

a c t i v i t i e s w i t hou t s eda t i on . Ba s ed on you r e xpe r i enc e 20

w i t h ho r s e s , how c r ed i b l e do you f i nd t h i s c l a i m? 21

As I s a i d , t h e r e a r e a f ew ho r s e s ou t t h e r e 22 A .

t h a t a r e go i ng t o l e t y ou do t h a t . And y ou n e v e r k now 23

e v e n i f t ho s e ho r s e s a r e go i ng t o b e h a v e t h r ough t h e 24

who l e p r o c e du r e . Some ho r s e s w i l l l e t y ou do f l o a t i ng 25

256

on t h e upp e r a r c a d e s , b y t h e t i me y ou g e t t o t h e l owe r 1

a r c a d e s t h e y ' r e t i r e d o f i t a nd t h e y ' r e go i ng t o n e e d 2

s ome t h i ng , o r t h e y ' r e go i ng t o e i t h e r hu r t t h ems e l v e s 3

o r hu r t s ome bod y . 4

Wha t k i nd o f - - o t he r t han s eda t i on , wha t k i nd 5 Q .

o f phy s i c a l r e s t r a i n t i s gene r a l l y us ed i n t he 6

ope r a t i on o f t oo t h f l oa t i ng? 7

I t h i n k I me n t i on e d a t w i t c h i s a c ommon me a n s 8 A .

o f r e s t r a i n t , ho l d i ng on t o t h e i r e a r a nd pu t t i ng 9

p r e s s u r e on t h e i r e a r , pu t t i ng a l i p c h a i n up o v e r 10

t he i r gum . 11

Some o f t h e s e p r o c e du r e s i n t h i s d a y o f a n i ma l 12

we l f a r e c on c e r n s a r e b e i ng l oo k e d a t c r i t i c a l l y a s 13

b e i ng a l i t t l e b i t t oo mu c h on t h e a n i ma l a bu s e s i d e . 14

I t h i n k i f u s e d p r op e r l y t ho s e a r e s t i l l o k a y r e s t r a i n t 15

me t hod s , bu t t h e y on l y l a s t f o r a v e r y s ho r t amoun t o f 16

t i me . Th e y ' r e p r ob a b l y no t go i ng t o l a s t l ong e nough 17

a nd k e e p t h e ho r s e qu i e t l ong e nough t o do a t ho r ough 18

d e n t a l p r o c e du r e . And a t t h e v e r y m i n i mum wou l d b e 19

g e t t i ng p a r t o f a t oo t h f l o a t i ng don e a nd no t do i ng a 20

v e r y t ho r ough j ob . 21

Wha t a r e t he r i s k s o f , t o t he an i ma l , t he 22 Q .

ho l de r , anybody p r e s en t , o f i nsu f f i c i en t r e s t r a i n t ? 23

We l l ho r s e s c a n hu r t y ou . Th e y ' r e b i g a n i ma l s , 24 A .

a nd a s I s a i d , t h e y ' r e v o l a t i l e . Some o f t h em h a v e 25

257

unp r e d i c t a b l e b e h a v i o r , e s p e c i a l l y wh e n y ou s t a r t 1

hu r t i ng t h em o r s c a r i ng t h em . And pu t t i ng l a r g e 2

me t a l l i c d e v i c e s i n t h e i r mou t h i s f r i gh t e n i ng t o a l o t 3

o f ho r s e s , s o t h e y ' r e e i t h e r go i ng s t r i k e ou t w i t h 4

t h e i r f r on t f e e t , t h e y ' r e go i ng t o t h r ow t h e i r h e a d , 5

t h e y ' r e go i ng t o r a r e up . I f t h e y r a r e up a nd l o s e 6

t h e i r b a l a n c e a nd f a l l o v e r on on e s i d e o r a no t h e r , 7

t h e y ' r e go i ng t o l a nd on t h e p e op l e t r y i ng t o ho l d 8

t h em . And I don ' t d i s a g r e e w i t h t h e f a c t t h a t 9

ho r s ema n s h i p ma y p l a y a r o l e , bu t i t ' s no t go i ng t o 10

t o t a l l y p r e v e n t t ho s e k i nd s o f i n j u r i e s . 11

Le t ' s t u r n ou r a t t en t i on t o t he k i nd o f t oo l s 12 Q .

us ed i n t he pe r f o r manc e o f t he s e p r oc edu r e s . You 13

men t i oned t ha t when you s t a r t ed ou t you p r i ma r i l y us ed 14

hand t oo l s f o r t he pu r pos e s o f t oo t h f l oa t i ng ; i s t ha t 15

co r r e c t ? 16

Th a t ' s c o r r e c t . 17 A .

Wha t a r e t hos e t oo l s l i k e , i f you we r e t o 18 Q .

de s c r i be t hem t o somebody who had ne v e r s e en t hem , wha t 19

do t he y l ook l i k e? 20

Oh , t h e y ' r e a n i n s t r ume n t t h a t ' s a l ong t ubu l a r 21 A .

s t r u c t u r e w i t h a f l a t f i l e - l i k e b l a d e on on e e nd a t 22

d i f f e r e n t a ng l e s a nd a h a nd l e on t h e o t h e r e nd t o ho l d 23

on t o . And s ome a r e f l a t , h a v e f l a t b l a d e s , s ome h a v e 24

r ound b l a d e s . I t ' s v e r y p e r s on a l i z e d , wh a t y ou r 25

258

p r e f e r e n c e wou l d b e f o r h a nd f l o a t s . And t h e y h a v e a 1

r a s p , i t ' s a bou t 3 i n c h e s l ong i n t h e h e a d o f a f l o a t 2

t h a t now i s b e i ng ma d e ou t o f d i amond c a r b i d e wh i c h i s 3

v e r y s h a r p a nd v e r y du r a b l e , v e r y e x p e n s i v e . And t h a t 4

i s u s e d t o j u s t mo v e y ou r h a nd b a c k a nd f o r t h a c r o s s 5

t h e t e e t h a nd f i l e , a l mo s t l i k e y ou ' r e f i l i ng wood 6

w i t h a wood r a s p . 7

How much r i s k o f ha r m o r ov e r cu t t i ng t he t oo t h 8 Q .

i s t he r e w i t h hand t oo l s? 9

I t ' s a l l amoun t o f how a gg r e s s i v e i t ' s don e a nd 10 A .

how mu c h t oo t h i s t a k e n o f f . Bu t t h e r e a r e s e n s i t i v e 11

s t r u c t u r e s i n a ho r s e ' s t oo t h , b e l i e v e i t o r no t . I t ' s 12

j u s t no t a h a r d p i e c e o f e n ame l . And s o on c e y ou g e t 13

p a s t t h e v e r y s up e r f i c i a l p a r t s , a nd t h e f i gu r e t h a t ' s 14

u s e d i n t h e l i t e r a t u r e i s a h a l f a m i l l i me t e r , y ou 15

s hou l dn ' t i n v a d e a ho r s e ' s t oo t h b y mo r e t h a n a bou t a 16

h a l f a m i l l i me t e r b e f o r e y ou g e t i n t o t h e s e n s i t i v e 17

p a r t s o f t h a t ho r s e ' s t e e t h . 18

So i t wou l dn ' t b e h a r d , e s p e c i a l l y w i t h t h e 19

n ewe r b l a d e s t h a t a r e mu c h s h a r p e r t h a n t h e b l a d e s we 20

h a d . We h a d b l a d e s f ou r y e a r s a go t h a t y ou c ou l dn ' t 21

h a r m a ho r s e w i t h , b e c a u s e t h e y we r e s o du l l , o r t h e y 22

wou l d b e c ome du l l i n t h e m i dd l e o f y ou r p r o c e du r e . Bu t 23

nowa d a y s we h a v e b l a d e s t h a t c a n r e a l l y t a k e o f f a l o t 24

o f t oo t h i n a r a p i d amoun t o f t i me . 25

259

Ok a y . We ' v e he a r d t e s t i mony t ha t r e c en t l y 1 Q .

me chan i z ed o r powe r t oo l s ha v e be come common i n t he 2

pe r f o r manc e o f f l oa t i ng s e r v i c e s . A r e you f am i l i a r 3

w i t h t he s e k i nds o f t oo l s? 4

Ye s . 5 A .

And du r i ng wha t pe r i od o f t i me ha v e t he y be come 6 Q .

mo r e common? 7

We l l , p r ob a b l y i n t h e l a s t 20 y e a r s . Th e y we r e 8 A .

f i r s t i n t r odu c e d 20 t o 25 y e a r s a go . I u s e d a 9

p r o t o t y p e on e t i me , a nd i t wa s a d i s a s t e r b e c a u s e t h e 10

ma nu f a c t u r e r a t t h a t t i me h a d f o r go t t e n t o g r ound t h e 11

f l o a t , s o wh e n I go t i n a we t ho r s e ' s mou t h w i t h a n 12

ung r ound e d f l o a t , i t wa s a n e x c i t i ng e x p e r i e n c e f o r 13

bo t h t h e ho r s e a nd me . So I ma y h a v e u s e d s ome o f t h e 14

f i r s t p r o t o t y p e s o f t ho s e f l o a t s 30 y e a r s a go . Bu t I 15

t h i n k t h e ma i n s t r e am powe r f l o a t s h a v e b e e n a r ound f o r 16

15 t o 20 y e a r s a t l e a s t . 17

Ok a y . D i d you b r i ng an e x amp l e o f t he s e t oo l s 18 Q .

w i t h you t oda y? 19

I b r ough t a powe r f l o a t w i t h me t h a t ' s 20 A .

a v a i l a b l e s omewh e r e h e r e . 21

I s t h i s t he i ns t r umen t you ' r e r e f e r r i ng t o? 22 Q .

Ye s . 23 A .

And i t l ook s t o me t o be a r a r e s emb l anc e t ha t 24 Q .

t he , e l e c t r i c end t o an e l e c t r i c d r i l l ? 25

260

I t i s . 1 A .

How wou l d t ha t compa r e? 2 Q .

Ye s . 3 A .

And c an you de s c r i be f o r t he Cou r t t he sha f t 4 Q .

pa r t o r how , wha t t he e l emen t s o f t h i s a r e? 5

We l l , t h e d r i l l d r i v e s t h a t l i t t l e d i s k on t h e 6 A .

e nd o f t h e powe r f l o a t , a nd t h a t d i s k i s t h e g r i nd i ng 7

p a r t o f t h e powe r f l o a t , a nd i t r e v o l v e s a t s e v e r a l 8

t hou s a nd RPM wh e n t h e powe r f l o a t i s r e v v e d up , a nd y ou 9

c a n c h a ng e t h e po s i t i on o f t h a t f l o a t b y t w i s t i ng t h e 10

s h a f t o f t h e - - y ou ' d h a v e t o k now how t o do t h a t , bu t 11

i f y ou wa n t me t o s how y ou I c a n . 12

No , t ha t ' s a l l r i gh t . Abou t how l ong i s t ha t 13 Q .

sha f t ? 14

I t ' s p r ob a b l y 24 t o 30 i n c h e s , t h e who l e t oo l . 15 A .

I me a n , t h e s h a f t i s on l y a bou t 12 i n c h e s . 16

Ok a y . 17 Q .

Th e r e ' s s e v e r a l s t y l e s o f t h a t a nd s e v e r a l 18 A .

ma nu f a c t u r e r s . Th a t ' s j u s t on e b r a nd . 19

Wha t adv an t age s do t he us e o f powe r t oo l s 20 Q .

p r e s en t ? 21

Th e y c l a i m t o s a v e t i me a nd e n e r g y . And f o r 22 A .

p e op l e l e a r n i ng how t o do d e n t i s t r y , I ' d s a y t h a t ' s a 23

m i s c on c e p t i on . On c e y ou l e a r n t o u s e t h e powe r f l o a t 24

a nd a r e f am i l i a r w i t h how t o po s i t i on i t i n a ho r s e ' s 25

261

mou t h , i t p r ob a b l y do e s ma k e i t e a s i e r a nd s a v e s t i me . 1

I t do e s r e qu i r e t h a t y ou s e d a t e t h e ho r s e ; t h a t 2

y ou pu t a s p e c u l um on , a nd s o t h a t i n i t s e l f t a k e s 3

t i me . And t h e n i t ' s no t l i gh t . I me a n , y ou h a v e t o 4

k i nd o f l e a r n how t o me c h a n i c a l l y u s e t h e f l o a t a nd 5

s uppo r t i t w i t h on e h a nd wh i l e y ou ' r e r unn i ng t h e 6

c on t r o l s w i t h t h e o t h e r h a nd . I t ' s , i t wa s a - - I h a d 7

t o l e a r n how t o u s e t h i s 20 y e a r s a go , a nd i t wa s a 8

l e a r n i ng c u r v e f o r me , a nd I a l mo s t t h r ew i t awa y 9

b e c a u s e I t hough t i t wa s h a r d e r t o u s e . 10

Wha t r i s k s i n t e r ms o f t he pe r f o r manc e o f t he s e 11 Q .

ope r a t i ons do powe r t oo l s p r e s en t ? 12

I t h i n k y ou h a v e s i m i l a r r i s k s . You h a v e a 13 A .

l a r g e , me t a l i n s t r ume n t t h a t ' s now ma k i ng no i s e i n s t e a d 14

o f me hu f f i ng a nd pu f f i ng , do i ng t h e h a nd f l o a t i ng , 15

t h i s t h i ng ' s ma k i ng a l o t o f no i s e , a nd s o ho r s e s a r e 16

go i ng t o g e t f r i gh t e n e d , t h e y ' r e go i ng t o s h y awa y f r om 17

i t , t h e y ' r e go i ng t o pu l l b a c k o r r a r e up . Ag a i n , t h e 18

n e e d f o r s e d a t i on a nd u s u a l l y h e a v y s e d a t i on . And t h e n 19

y ou c a n do d ama g e w i t h t h e d i s k i n t h e ho r s e ' s mou t h , 20

no t a s b a d a s w i t h h a nd f l o a t s bu t t o s ome d e g r e e . 21

I t ' s mu c h e a s i e r - -22

By damage you me an so f t t i s sue damage? 23 Q .

Ye s , s o f t t i s s u e d ama g e t o t h e t ongu e o r t h e 24 A .

p i l l a r s o f t h e s o f t p a l l e t o r t h e c h e e k s , gums . I t ' s 25

262

mu c h e a s i e r t o r emo v e t oo t h , s o I t h i n k t h e b i gg e s t 1

h a z a r d o r d a ng e r a nd r i s k w i t h a powe r f l o a t i s 2

e x c e s s i v e c r own r e du c t i on . 3

How abou t t he r ma l e f f e c t s? 4 Q .

THE COURT : M r . F r own f e l t e r , e x cus e me f o r a 5

m i nu t e , I ne ed t o t a k e a r e c e s s , I ne ed t o t a k e c a r e o f 6

a coup l e ma t t e r s . 7

MR . FROWNFELTER : Su r e . 8

THE COURT : We ' l l t a k e a t en - m i nu t e r e c e s s . We ' l l 9

be i n r e c e s s f o r abou t t en m i nu t e s . So r r y t o 10

i n t e r r up t .11

( B r i e f Re c e s s f r om 4 : 23 t i l l 4 : 42 p . m . )12

THE COURT : My apo l og i e s , M r . F r own f e l t e r , I had a 13

coup l e t h i ngs t o ge t cov e r ed so we cou l d f i n i sh up w i t h 14

you r f o l k s t oda y . 15

You ma y p r oc e ed .16

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ok a y . I c e r t a i n l y unde r s t and . 17

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) A l l r i gh t . I t h i nk t he 18 Q .

po i n t a t wh i ch I wa s abou t a s k you when we b r ok e wa s 19

abou t t he t he r ma l i s sue s i n t he us e o f powe r t oo l s . 20

Ha v e you l ook ed i n t o o r he a r d o f any i s sue s 21

r ega r d i ng t he he a t gene r a t ed by t he i ns t r umen t s? 22

Th e r e we r e a c oup l e o f s t ud i e s don e a f ew y e a r s 23 A .

b a c k . I c a n ' t g i v e y ou t h e a u t ho r s o f t ho s e s t ud i e s , 24

bu t t h e y d e f i n i t e l y s howe d t h a t i f y ou l e f t a powe r 25

263

t oo l i n c on t a c t w i t h a t oo t h t oo l ong y ou c ou l d 1

g e n e r a t e e nough h e a t t o c a u s e d ama g e t o t h e s e n s i t i v e 2

p a r t s o f t h a t t oo t h . 3

And s o y ou h a v e t o b e v e r y c a r e f u l , e s p e c i a l l y 4

i f y ou ' r e do i ng a n y s o r t o f c r own r e du c t i on wh e r e a 5

t oo t h i s o v e r g r own a nd y ou ' r e t r y i ng t o b r i ng t h a t 6

t oo t h down b y 5 m i l l i me t e r s , y ou c ou l d do h a r m b y 7

s t a y i ng on t h a t t oo t h t oo l ong w i t h t h a t powe r 8

i n s t r ume n t . I don ' t t h i n k t h e r e ' s a n y wa y t o me a s u r e , 9

y ou j u s t h a v e t o s t op a nd s t a r t a nd s t op a nd s t a r t 10

f r e qu e n t l y . 11

Wha t e f f e c t - - you men t i oned t ha t powe r t oo l s 12 Q .

ha v e r e a l l y be come p r e v a l en t du r i ng t he l a s t 10 t o 13

20 y e a r s ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 14

Th a t ' s c o r r e c t . 15 A .

And you ' v e be en f l oa t i ng t e e t h f o r 40 y e a r s , so 16 Q .

you ' v e go t a l ong pe r spe c t i v e i n bo t h t he t i me be f o r e 17

powe r t oo l s a nd a f t e r . Wh a t k i nd s o f e f f e c t s on t h e 18

p r a c t i c e o f t oo t h f l oa t i ng do you t h i nk t ha t t he adv en t 19

o f powe r t oo l s ha v e had? 20

We l l , a s I s a i d e a r l i e r , t h e y ' v e , i n s ome 21 A .

p e op l e ' s m i nd s t h e y ' v e ma d e i t e a s i e r t o do , a nd 22

t h e r e f o r e i t ' s p r ob a b l y g e t t i ng don e mo r e f r e qu e n t l y . 23

And j u s t b e c a u s e i t i s e a s i e r t o do a nd qu i c k e r t o do 24

i t , i t do e s n ' t t a k e a s mu c h t i me . 25

264

And t h e r e ' s b e e n a t r eme ndou s i n c r e a s e i n t h e 1

amoun t o f , I wou l dn ' t c a l l i t pub l i c i t y , i t wou l d b e 2

awa r e n e s s o f t h e n e e d f o r d e n t a l i n t e r v e n t i on s . Th e 3

p r ob l em i s , t h e s c i e n c e h a s n ' t f o l l owe d t h a t a l ong . So 4

t h e r e ' s a l o t o f p e op l e ou t t h e r e p r omo t i ng d e n t i s t r y 5

t h a t r e a l l y h a s n ' t b e e n b a c k e d up b y wh a t we ' v e s e e n i n 6

t h e s c i e n t i f i c l i t e r a t u r e . 7

And I l i k e t h i s a n a l og y , i t ' s wh e n a l l y ou h a v e 8

i n y ou r t oo l bo x i s a h amme r , e v e r y t h i ng s t a r t s t o l oo k 9

l i k e a n a i l . And s o wh e n p e op l e g e t r e a l l y i n v o l v e d i n 10

a l l t h i s d e n t i s t r y k i nd o f t a l k , t h e y t e nd t o f o r g e t 11

t h a t we n e e d t o ma k e s u r e t h a t t h e i n t e r v e n t i on s we ' r e 12

do i ng a r e r e a l l y b a c k e d up b y s c i e n c e . 13

Do you t h i nk t he s c i enc e - - how s e t t l ed do you 14 Q .

t h i nk t he s c i enc e i s abou t t he e f f e c t o f t he s e t oo l s on 15

den t i s t r y and t oo t h f l oa t i ng a t t h i s po i n t i n t i me? 16

We ' r e j u s t s t a r t i ng t o g e t t o t h e ho r s e s i n t h e 17 A .

a g e g r oup t h a t f i r s t h a d powe r d e n t i s t r y , l i k e 18

20 - y e a r - o l d ho r s e s o r 22 - y e a r - o l d ho r s e s . I f t h e y 19

s t a r t e d g e t t i ng powe r i z e d d e n t a l i n t e r v e n t i on s a t t wo 20

o r t h r e e y e a r s o f a g e , a nd t h i s s t a r t e d 20 y e a r s a go , 21

y ou k now , we ' r e j u s t s t a r t i ng t o g e t t o t h e po i n t wh e r e 22

t h e s e ho r s e s a r e r e a c h i ng o l d a g e , a nd i t w i l l b e 23

i n t e r e s t i ng t o s e e a s we l oo k a t t ho s e ho r s e s , 24

c r i t i c a l l y , t o s e e i f t h e y h a v e h a d a n y l ong - t e r m 25

265

a d v e r s e a f f e c t s f r om t h e powe r d e n t i s t r y . Ha v e t h e y - - 1

i s t h e r e d e n t a l a t t r i t i on a l o s s o f t h e i r t oo t h? A 2

ho r s e on l y h a s s o mu c h t oo t h . And a t oo t h g r ows ou t i n 3

a f ew m i l l i me t e r s a y e a r , a nd we c ome i n t h e r e a nd 4

g r i nd i t o f f , a nd i t g r ows ou t s ome mo r e a nd we g r i nd 5

o f f . 6

So a r e t h e s e ho r s e s t h a t a r e now 20 t o 25 y e a r s 7

o f a g e , a r e t h e y go i ng t o r un ou t o f t e e t h? A ho r s e 8

e v e n t u a l l y i n i t s l i f e r un s ou t o f t e e t h . A r e t h e y 9

go i ng t o r un ou t o f t e e t h s oon e r , a nd t h a t ' s a n a n swe r 10

I don ' t h a v e . 11

Bu t t ho s e a r e t h e k i nd s o f t h i ng s we n e e d t o 12

s t a r t t h i n k i ng a bou t , a nd I t h i n k wh e n we do mo r e c r own 13

r e du c t i on s t h a n wa s don e i n t h e p a s t a nd i t ' s e a s i e r t o 14

do t h em , t h e y ' r e don e mo r e f r e qu e n t l y , t h e y ' r e don e 15

w i t h g r e a t e r e a s e , t h a n we ma y f i nd s ome o f t ho s e 16

t h i ng s s t a r t s how i ng up a bou t now , o r i n t h e n e x t f ew 17

y e a r s . 18

How i mpo r t an t i s a f am i l i a r i t y w i t h t he 19 Q .

l i t e r a t u r e and t he de v e l op i ng s c i enc e i n know i ng t he 20

answe r s t o t hos e que s t i ons? 21

We l l , a n y t h i ng i n ou r p r o f e s s i on i s i mpo r t a n t 22 A .

t o k e y o f f t od a y . I me a n , y ou h a v e t o r e a d , I ' m s u r e , 23

l aw j ou r n a l s t h a t c ome ou t , a nd t h e r e ' s d i f f e r e n t wa y s 24

t o h a nd l e c a s e s . I t ' s t h e s ame wa y w i t h v e t e r i n a r y 25

266

me d i c i n e , a nd i t ' s v e r y i mpo r t a n t t o k e e p up w i t h t h e 1

l i t e r a t u r e . And , y ou k now , we g e t a l o t o f c on t i nu i ng 2

e du c a t i on p r e s e n t e d t o u s e v e r y y e a r t h a t we c a n go t o 3

a nd h e a r mo r e n ew t h i ng s a bou t , a nd we a l s o h a v e wh a t 4

a r e c a l l e d p e e r - r e v i ewe d j ou r n a l s t h a t a r e h i gh l y 5

d e p e nd a b l e . 6

Wha t ' s t he r o l e o f r ad i og r aphy i n den t a l c a r e 7 Q .

t he s e da y s? 8

You c a n on l y s e e s ome o f t h e t oo t h . A ho r s e 9 A .

h a s a l ong r e s e r v e d c r own i n t h e i r , t h a t i s bu r i e d i n 10

t h e s k u l l , a nd wh a t ' s c a l l e d t h e a l v e o l u s , a nd s o a n y 11

t i me y ou wou l d h a v e t o l oo k a t a t oo t h i n t e r ms o f 12

s ome t h i ng t h a t do e s n ' t h a v e t o do w i t h a c r own , y ou 13

n e e d t o t a k e r a d i og r a ph s . And e v e n , y ou g e t h i n t s o f 14

t h e n e e d f o r r a d i og r a ph s b y do i ng a c omp l e t e o r a l 15

e x am i n a t i on . 16

I f y ou s e e s ome t h i ng w r ong w i t h t h e gum o r t h e 17

g i ng i v a , o r y ou s e e g a p s i n t h e t e e t h t h a t a r e c a l l e d 18

d i a s t ema , i f y ou s e e a r e a s i n t h e o c c l u s a l s u r f a c e o r 19

t h e b i t i ng s u r f a c e o f t h e t e e t h t h a t l oo k s a bno r ma l , 20

t h e n t h a t ' s go i ng t o l e a d y ou t o t a k i ng r a d i og r a ph s . 21

O r i f y ou h a v e swe l l i ng s on t h e s i d e o f t h e h e a d , i f 22

y ou h a v e a n a s a l d i s c h a r g e , t h e ho r s e h a s a n a s a l 23

d i s c h a r g e , a l l o f t ho s e t h i ng s l e a d y ou t owa r d s 24

r a d i og r a ph y . 25

267

Do you s e e any p r ob l ems o r i s sue s i f peop l e 1 Q .

we r e t o do t oo t h f l oa t i ng w i t hou t a c c e s s t o 2

r ad i og r aphy? 3

You m i gh t m i s s s ome t h i ng . I me a n , i f y ou do 4 A .

j u s t t oo t h f l o a t i ng a nd y ou ' r e - - i s t h i s w i t h o r 5

w i t hou t s e d a t i on , w i t h o r w i t hou t a s p e c u l um? Wh a t 6

k i nd o f t oo t h f l o a t i ng a r e we t a l k i ng a bou t ? 7

Wha t ha s be en na r r ow l y de f i ned a s t oo t h 8 Q .

f l oa t i ng he r e . I f you ha v e somebody who app r oa che s t he 9

t a s k w i t h t he goa l o f r educ i ng sha r p ename l po i n t s and 10

no t h i ng e l s e . Doe s no t ha v e a c c e s s t o r ad i og r aphy . 11

Wha t i s sue s wou l d you s e e w i t h t ha t ? 12

We l l t h e r e ' s go i ng t o b e s ome ho r s e s t h a t y ou 13 A .

m i s s und e r l y i ng v e n e r a l d i s e a s e w i t h t h a t y ou don ' t s e e 14

i n t h i s bu r i e d c r own . 15

How much t r a i n i ng i n t he us e o f r ad i og r aphy do 16 Q .

DVMs , v e t e r i na r i an s t uden t s and v e t e r i na r i ans i n 17

t r a i n i ng r e c e i v e? 18

We l l t h e y h a v e a s i gn i f i c a n t l e c t u r e , d i d a c t i c 19 A .

l e c t u r e c ompon e n t t o t h e i r l e a r n i ng , a nd t h e y a l s o 20

p a r t i c i p a t e i n t h e r a d i o l og y s e c t i on , t a k i ng 21

r a d i og r a ph s , i n t e r p r e t i ng r a d i og r a ph s , a nd t h a t ' s 22

du r i ng t h e i r c l i n i c a l y e a r s . So t h e y h a v e a f a i r 23

d e g r e e o f e x po s u r e . And t h e n t h e y ' r e a l s o i n s t r u c t e d 24

on t h e s a f e t y o f r a d i og r a ph y wh i l e t h e y ' r e t a k i ng 25

268

r a d i og r a ph s . 1

We men t i oned t ha t you ' v e be en i n p r a c t i c e ov e r 2 Q .

40 y e a r s and we r e t oo t h f l oa t i ng ba c k 40 y e a r s ago when 3

you s t a r t ed . How ha s t he p r a c t i c e o f equ i ne den t i s t r y 4

changed ov e r t he t i me you ' v e be en do i ng i t ?5

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , I ' m go i ng t o ob j e c t t o 6

r e l e v anc e on t h i s po i n t . Aga i n , we ' v e had a l ong 7

conv e r s a t i on . I ' m j us t no t su r e how t h i s que s t i on 8

l e ads us i n t he d i r e c t i on o f answe r i ng t he que s t i ons 9

t ha t t h i s c a s e p r e s en t s .10

THE COURT : The que s t i on wa s how ha s equ i ne 11

den t i s t r y changed ov e r t he l a s t 40 y e a r s? 12

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ye s , s i r . 13


THE W I TNESS : So I c an answe r ?15

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ye s .16

THE W I TNESS : Ok a y . 17

I t ' s j u s t b e c ome a l o t mo r e s oph i s t i c a t e d . And 18 A .

we ' v e g a i n e d a t r eme ndou s amoun t o f k now l e dg e a bou t 19

wh a t we c a n a nd wh a t we c a n ' t do , a nd wh a t we s hou l d b e 20

l oo k i ng f o r a nd wh a t we we r e m i s s i ng f ou r y e a r s a go . 21

So I t h i n k I h a v e t o go b a c k t o emph a s i z e t h e 22

i mpo r t a n c e o f a ph y s i c a l e x am a nd d i a gno s i s a s a n 23

i n t e g r a l p a r t o f d e n t i s t r y . 24

And i f i t ' s t h e d i a gno s i s o f s h a r p e n ame l 25

269

po i n t s o r i f i t ' s a d i a gno s i s o f o t h e r d e n t a l p r ob l ems , 1

i t ' s - - we we r e s a t i s f i e d f ou r y e a r s a go j u s t t o f l o a t 2

a nd no t do a n y t h i ng e l s e . And we d i dn ' t do a t ho r ough 3

j ob o f f l o a t i ng , we d i dn ' t do a t ho r ough e x am i n a t i on , 4

a nd c on s e qu e n t l y t h e ho r s e p r ob a b l y wa s t h e , t h e 5

c r e a t u r e t h a t s u f f e r e d t h e i l l e f f e c t s o f t h a t s o . . . 6

Le t ' s t u r n t o t he que s t i on o f con t i nu i ng 7 Q .

educ a t i on r e sou r c e s . Wha t k i nd o f sou r c e s c an a 8

v e t e r i na r i an t u r n t o f o r con t i nu i ng educ a t i on? 9

Th e r e ' s a l o t . I n f a c t , y ou k now , i t ' s h a r d t o 10 A .

c hoo s e wh i c h me e t i ng s t o go t o , b e c a u s e y ou c a n ' t b e 11

t r a v e l l i ng o f f t o me e t i ng s a l l t h e t i me . Th e r e a r e 12

l o c a l me e t i ng s . I t h i n k Do c t o r Wh i t t l e d e s c r i b e d t h e 13

MVMA g i v i ng a d e n t a l s em i n a r . Na t i on a l me e t i ng s . 14

Th e AAEP h a s h a d d e n t i s t r y on t h e i r CE me e t i ng s 15

f o r ma n y y e a r s on a n a nnu a l b a s i s . Th e y pu t on 16

d e n t i s t r y s p e c i f i c f o r ums wh e r e , f o r t h r e e d a y s 17

v e t e r i n a r i a n s c a n go l i s t e n t o e x p e r t s a bou t v a r i ou s 18

t y p e s o f d e n t a l p r ob l ems . Th e r e a r e s t a t e a s s o c i a t i on s 19

t h a t pu t on me e t i ng s . Th e r e a r e t h e Ac a d emy o f 20

Ve t e r i n a r y De n t i s t r y , I t h i n k , pu t s on me e t i ng s . So 21

i t ' s - - I me a n , y ou c a n f i nd p l e n t y o f CE , i f y ou c a n 22

a f f o r d t o go . 23

How many o f t he s e oppo r t un i t i e s a r e a v a i l ab l e 24 Q .

t o non - v e t e r i na r i an den t a l p r a c t i t i one r s? 25

270

You k now , I don ' t k now i f t h e y h a v e s i m i l a r 1 A .

oppo r t un i t i e s o f t h e i r own . You g e n e r a l l y don ' t - - 2

mo s t o f t h e me e t i ng s t h a t I ' m t a l k i ng a bou t , t o 3

r e g i s t e r f o r t h e me e t i ng i s f o r a v e t e r i n a r i a n , y ou 4

h a v e t o b e a v e t e r i n a r i a n t o r e g i s t e r f o r t h e me e t i ng 5

a nd t o ob t a i n t h e CE . 6

Ou r v e t e r i n a r i a n s a r e r e qu i r e d b y mo s t s t a t e s 7

t o h a v e c on t i nu i ng e du c a t i on a s p a r t o f t h e i r 8

l i c e n s u r e . So we , we go f r e qu e n t l y t o CE me e t i ng s a nd 9

g e t up t o s p e e d on t h e n ewe s t a nd l a t e s t t h i ng s , a nd , 10

i n o r d e r t o ma i n t a i n ou r l i c e n s e , a s we l l a s t o p r o v i d e 11

a b e t t e r qu a l i t y o f c a r e f o r ou r p a t i e n t s . Bu t I don ' t 12

k now i f t ho s e oppo r t un i t i e s e x i s t i n t h e l a y d e n t i s t 13

c i r c l e s . 14

And when you ' r e a t t end i ng t he AAEP e v en t s , f o r 15 Q .

i ns t anc e , ha v e you e v e r be en awa r e o f t he p r e s enc e o f 16

non - v e t e r i na r i an equ i ne den t a l p r a c t i t i one r s? 17

I me a n , t h e y c ou l d b e t h e r e a nd I wou l dn ' t k now 18 A .

i t , un l e s s t h e y pu t a d i f f e r e n t n ame t a g on t h em o r pu t 19

a b l i n k i ng r e d l i gh t on t h em , i t ' s - - we c ou l dn ' t t e l l 20

t h em a p a r t . 21

I t ' s my und e r s t a nd i ng t h a t t h e AAEP do e s n ' t 22

a l l ow non - v e t e r i n a r i a n s t o r e g i s t e r f o r t h e me e t i ng a nd 23

a t t e nd t h e CE me e t i ng s , bu t . . . 24

How abou t AVMA o r MVMA p r oc e ed i ngs? A r e t he r e 25 Q .

271

e v e r non - v e t e r i na r i ans a t t hem? 1

Same a n swe r . I don ' t r e a l l y k now . I don ' t 2 A .

t h i n k s o . 3

We ' v e he a r d t he t e r m we t l abs us ed a numbe r o f 4 Q .

t i me s du r i ng t h i s he a r i ng . I don ' t know i f anybody 5

e v e r de f i ned t ha t . Wha t i s a we t l ab? 6

We t l a b i s a h a nd s - on l e a r n i ng e x p e r i e n c e wh e r e 7 A .

y ou h a v e a g r oup o f i n s t r u c t o r s , e x p e r i e n c e d 8

v e t e r i n a r i a n s who do d e n t i s t r y a l l t h e t i me , a nd t h e y 9

g e t a g r oup o f p e op l e c om i ng f o r c on t i nu i ng e du c a t i on , 10

a nd t h e y e i t h e r h a v e c a d a v e r s p e c i me n s , ho r s e s ' h e a d s 11

t h a t we r e h a r v e s t e d f r om , u s u a l l y f r om un i v e r s i t y 12

f a c i l i t i e s wh e r e ho r s e s d i e d a nd t h e i r h e a d s a r e 13

h a r v e s t e d , w i t h t h e own e r s ' p e r m i s s i on , o f c ou r s e , a nd 14

t h e n a t s ome o f t ho s e l a b s t h e y a c t u a l l y h a v e l i v e 15

a n i ma l s . 16

AAEP h a s h a d a c oup l e o f l i v e a n i ma l s CE 17

me e t i ng s w i t h d e n t i s t r y wh e r e t h e y h a v e ho r s e s t h a t a r e 18

t h e r e w i t h v a r i ou s d e n t a l p r ob l ems . So i t ' s a l mo s t 19

on e - on - on e i n s t r u c t i on a l p r o c e du r e wh e r e y ou h a v e a n 20

i n s t r u c t o r a nd a s t ud e n t . Th e s t ud e n t i s a 21

v e t e r i n a r i a n . Th e y ' r e b e i ng s up e r v i s e d a nd wa t c h e d 22

b e c a u s e t h e y do t ho s e p r o c e du r e s . Th e y ' r e b e i ng 23

c r i t i qu e d a s t h e y do t h em . Th e e x p e r i e n c e d p e op l e t e l l 24

t h em . Th e r e ' s b a s i c l e v e l s o f i n s t r u c t i on a nd a d v a n c e d 25

272

l e v e l s o f i n s t r u c t i on s o y ou c a n h a v e - - t ho s e a r e we t 1

l a b s . 2

A r e you f am i l i a r w i t h t he Ac ademy o f Equ i ne 3 Q .

Den t i s t r y i n Oh i o - - I me an , I daho . Ex cus e me .4

I ' v e h e a r d o f i t . I k now , h i s t o r i c a l l y , I k now 5 A .

a bou t t h e p e r s on t h a t s t a r t e d t h a t . 6

And t ha t wou l d be M r . J e f f r e y? 7 Q .

Ye a h . 8 A .

Wha t do you know abou t h i s wo r k? 9 Q .

He s t a r t e d ou t mo s t l y i n t h e bu s i n e s s o f 10 A .

s e l l i ng d e n t a l e qu i pme n t , ma nu f a c t u r i ng a nd s e l l i ng 11

d e n t a l e qu i pme n t . And t h e n h e p r og r e s s e d i n t o h a v i ng 12

i n s t r u c t i on a l t i me f o r p e op l e who a r e mo s t l y 13

non - v e t e r i n a r i a n s , c ome a nd go t o h i s a c a d emy a nd t h e n 14

bu y i n s t r ume n t s f r om h i m . 15

A r e you a t a l l f am i l i a r w i t h t he ph i l osophy he 16 Q .

t e a che s? 17

No . 18 A .

Do you con t end t ha t a l a ype r son c anno t 19 Q .

e f f e c t i v e l y pe r f o r m f l oa t i ng a s s t r i c t l y de f i ned ; t ha t 20

i s , t he r a sp i ng o f t he ename l po i n t s o f f t he t e e t h? 21

I don ' t b e l i e v e t h e y c a n . 22 A .

And wha t r e s e r v a t i ons do you ha v e abou t t he i r 23 Q .

do i ng t ha t ? 24

Re s e r v a t i on i s t h a t t h e r e ' s no t a ph y s i c a l 25 A .

273

e x am ; a d i a gno s i s ma d e ; t h e d e t e r m i n a t i on o f n e e d ; 1

s e d a t i on ; u s e o f a s p e c u l um ; do i ng a t ho r ough e x am ; 2

b e i ng h e l d a c c oun t a b l e f o r t h e c on s e qu e n c e s o f t h e i r 3

a c t i on s ; a nd b e i ng a b l e t o do s ome t h i ng i f t h e r e i s a 4

me d i c a l eme r g e n c y i f t h e r e ' s no t a v e t e r i n a r i a n t h e r e , 5

t h e y ' r e no t e qu i pp e d o r c a p a b l e o f d e a l i ng w i t h t h a t . 6

Do you be l i e v e t ha t t oo t h f l oa t i ng e x i s t s a s a , 7 Q .

ou t s i de t he con t e x t o f v e t e r i na r y den t a l med i c i ne? 8

No . I t ' s a n i n t e g r a l p a r t o f i t , I t h i n k . You 9 A .

go t t o r ememb e r , t h i s ho r s e ' s h e a d a nd t e e t h a r e no t a 10

s e t o f d e n t u r e s t h a t we s e t ou t on a t a b l e a nd wo r k on . 11

Th i s s e t o f t e e t h a r e p a r t o f a who l e ho r s e t h a t n e e d s 12

t o b e c on s i d e r e d wh e n e v e r d e n t a l p r o c e du r e s a r e don e . 13

Can you i den t i f y any ba s i s f r om a med i c a l 14 Q .

s t andpo i n t a s t o why t he r e ' s a ne ed t o s e t s t anda r ds 15

f o r who c an pe r f o r m equ i ne den t a l s e r v i c e s , i nc l ud i ng 16

t oo t h f l oa t i ng? 17

Ag a i n , t h e a b i l i t y t o do a n e x am i n a t i on , 18 A .

ph y s i c a l e x am i n a t i on , ma k e a d i a gno s i s , b e i ng h e l d 19

a c c oun t a b l e , s i m i l a r a n swe r s t o wh a t I j u s t g a v e y ou . 20

I t h i n k t h a t t h a t i s a n i mpo r t a n t a s p e c t o f p r o t e c t i ng 21

a n i ma l we l f a r e i n t h e pub l i c . 22

MR . FROWNFELTER : I t h i nk I ha v e no f u r t he r 23

que s t i ons .24

MR . ROLAND : I ' l l ne ed j us t a coup l e m i nu t e s , You r 25

274

Hono r .1

2


BY MR . ROLAND : 4

Ok a y , Doc t o r Me s s e r , i f you ' l l r emembe r ou r 5 Q .

d e po s i t i on t h a t we h a d a c oup l e we e k s a go? 6

Ye s . 7 A .

One o f t he que s t i ons I a s k ed you a t t ha t t i me 8 Q .

wa s , " Do you e xpe c t t o t e s t i f y t ha t a pe r son c anno t 9

de v e l op compe t enc e t o f l o a t ho r s e s ' t e e t h un l e s s t he y 10

go t o v e t e r i na r y s choo l ? " You answe r ed , " No . " 11

Ha s you r op i n i on changed i n t ha t t i me? 12

Re p e a t how y ou we r e a s k i ng me t h a t qu e s t i on t h e 13 A .

f i r s t t i me . 14

Ok a y , t he que s t i on wa s , " Do you e xpe c t t o 15 Q .

t e s t i f y t ha t a pe r son c anno t de v e l op compe t enc e t o 16

f l oa t ho r s e s ' t e e t h un l e s s t he y go t o v e t e r i na r y 17

s choo l ? " 18

And I s a i d no . 19 A .

You r answe r wa s no . 20 Q .

Be c a u s e i f y ou t oo k t h e ho r s e s h e a d a s a s e t o f 21 A .

d e n t u r e s on t h e t a b l e , y e a h , t h e y c a n l e a r n how t o 22

f l o a t t e e t h . Bu t t h e y c a n ' t c oo r d i n a t e t h a t w i t h t h e 23

e n t i r e ph y s i c a l s t a t u s o f t h e a n i ma l . And s o I wa s - - 24

I wa s t a k i ng y ou r qu e s t i on t o me a n , c a n a p e r s on 25

275

me c h a n i c a l l y l e a r n how t o r un h a nd f l o a t s o r a powe r 1

f l o a t a c r o s s a ho r s e ' s t e e t h , a nd y ou d i dn ' t a s k me i f 2

i t h a d a n y t h i ng t o do w i t h t h e who l e ho r s e , y ou j u s t 3

s a i d f l o a t i ng t e e t h . 4

We l l , I a s k ed abou t compe t enc e . And t h i s 5 Q .

a c t ua l l y c ame a s pa r t o f a l a r ge r conv e r s a t i on t ha t we 6

had had abou t compe t enc e . So I wou l d l i k e t o 7

r e v i s i t - -8

Ok a y . 9 A .

- - some o f wha t we d i s cus s ed . I j us t ha v e t o 10 Q .

f i nd t hos e pa r t s o f ou r conv e r s a t i on . 11

We l l l e t ' s j us t wa l k t h r ough pa r t o f t h i s 12

conv e r s a t i on . So , one o f t he t h i ngs I had a s k ed you 13

wa s whe t he r t he r e we r e peop l e who d i d f l oa t t e e t h 14

w i t hou t us i ng s eda t i v e s ; and you s a i d , " Ye ah , you c an 15

do t h a t , I u s e d t o do t h a t . " I s t h a t s t i l l c o r r e c t ? 16

Th a t ' s c o r r e c t . 17 A .

And i n r ega r d t o t he c l a s s e s t ha t you t e a ch 18 Q .

you r s t uden t s a t t he Un i v e r s i t y , you men t i on t ha t you 19

h a v e , I b e l i e v e i t wa s a t h r e e - d a y p r e s e n t a t i on t h a t 20

you do i n t he c l a s s r oom? 21

L e c t u r e s , y e s . 22 A .

Ok a y . You men t i oned t ha t t he r e wa s a 60 t o 80 23 Q .

s l i de Powe r Po i n t p r e s en t a t i on de a l i ng w i t h equ i ne 24

den t i s t r y gene r a l l y ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 25

276

Ye s . 1 A .

Ok a y . You had a l so s a i d t ha t o f t hos e 60 t o 80 2 Q .

s l i de s , ma ybe 10 o r 12 we r e ded i c a t ed t o f l oa t i ng a s a 3

p r a c t i c e ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 4


And so ou t o f t ha t c l a s s r oom t i me , you s a i d i t 6 Q .

wa s p r obab l y abou t a ha l f hou r ' s wo r t h t ha t wa s 7

ded i c a t ed t o t oo t h f l oa t i ng? 8

Ye s . 9 A .

Now one o f t he t h i ngs you had t a l k ed abou t 10 Q .

e a r l i e r on i s t he s cope o f v e t e r i na r y s choo l . Do you 11

ha v e any s ens e o f how many c l a s s r oom hou r s a s t uden t 12

wou l d spend a t v e t e r i na r y s choo l ? 13

I s hou l d bu t I don ' t . I t wou l d b e a pu r e 14 A .

gu e s s . I me a n , t h e y ' r e i n c l a s s f o r t wo y e a r s . 15

Th e y ' r e i n c l a s s e v e r y d a y f o r a t l e a s t f ou r t o s i x 16

hou r s , f i v e d a y s a we e k . 17

So t ha t wou l d be r ough l y 30 hou r s pe r we e k , and 18 Q .

t hen do you ha v e a s ens e o f how many we e k s a r e i n t he 19

a v e r age s eme s t e r ? 20

No , I don ' t . 12 we e k s . 21 A .

So r ough l y 12 we e k s?22 Q .

Ye a h . Don ' t , don ' t ho l d me t o t h a t . 23 A .

We ' r e j us t go i ng f o r a r ough app r ox i ma t i on . 24 Q .

Ok a y . 25 A .

277

So i t l ook s l i k e r ough l y 360 c l a s s r oom hou r s 1 Q .

pe r s eme s t e r , and t hen you s a i d t ha t t he c l a s s r oom 2

s t u f f wa s t wo y e a r s ; co r r e c t ? 3

Ye s . 4 A .

So t ha t wou l d be f ou r s eme s t e r s? 5 Q .

Ye s . 6 A .

So i t l ook s l i k e - - 7 Q .

Ou r s h a s b e e n a l i t t l e d i f f e r e n t . L e t me 8 A .

i n t e r r up t . I ' m s o r r y , I a po l og i z e . We ' r e wo r k i ng i n 9

b l o c k s , s o t h e y ' r e no t n e c e s s a r i l y t h e t y p i c a l c o l l e g e 10

s eme s t e r . Ok a y ? So t h e y ma y h a v e e i gh t we e k s i n a 11

b l o c k , a nd t h e r e ma y b e t wo b l o c k s i n a s eme s t e r i n a 12

c a l e nd a r un i v e r s i t y s eme s t e r . 13

Ok a y . We l l , aga i n , we ' r e j us t go i ng f o r a 14 Q .

r ough app r ox i ma t i on . 15

Ok a y . 16 A .

Bu t , so i t sounds l i k e i n t wo y e a r s o f s choo l , 17 Q .

we ' r e t a l k i ng on t he o r de r o f abou t 1440 hou r s , and 18

t ha t i s 360 t i me s 4 , i s wha t we ' r e add i ng up . And t hen 19

t he r e a r e t wo mo r e y e a r s o f s choo l , i f I unde r s t and 20

co r r e c t l y , f o r v e t e r i na r y s choo l ; i s t ha t r i gh t ? 21

Uh - huh , y e s . 22 A .

And t hos e a r e mos t l y c l i n i c s , t he y ' r e no t a s 23 Q .

much c l a s s r oom t i me ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 24

Th a t ' s c o r r e c t . 25 A .

278

Ok a y . Abou t how many hou r s o f a we e k wou l d you 1 Q .

s a y t ha t t he s t uden t s spend i n t r a i n i ng i n t hos e t wo 2

y e a r s t ha t t he y ' r e do i ng c l i n i c s? 3

We l l , t h e y ' r e t h e r e o f f a nd on 24 / 7 , d e p e nd i ng 4 A .

on wh a t s o r t o f a n eme r g e n c y du t y s c h e du l e t h e y ' r e on . 5

And we h a v e c l i n i c s f r om - - we s t a r t a t 7 : 30 i n t h e 6

mo r n i ng w i t h r ound s a nd we go t i l l a bou t 5 : 30 o r 6 : 00 7

a t n i gh t , w i t h r ound s a t t h e e nd o f t h e d a y , a nd we 8

b r e a k wh e n we c a n f o r l un c h . So I ' m e s s e n t i a l l y 9

i n s t r u c t i ng s t ud e n t s f o r a n a v e r a g e o f 8 hou r s a d a y - -10

Ok a y . 11 Q .

- - f i v e d a y s a we e k . And t h e n we me e t on 12 A .

Sa t u r d a y s a nd Sund a y s t o a t t e nd t o c a s e s , a nd we a l s o 13

h a v e 24 - hou r eme r g e n c y s e r v i c e , s o i t wou l d r e a l l y b e 14

h a r d t o p i n t h a t down . Bu t y ou c ou l d c oun t on 8 hou r s 15

a d a y , 5 d a y s a we e k , p l u s o r m i nu s s ome . 16

Ok a y . So l e t ' s - - we won ' t e v en wo r r y abou t 17 Q .

t he we e k ends , we ' l l j us t t a l k abou t t he hou r s i n t he 18

r egu l a r s choo l we e k , Monda y t h r ough F r i da y . So you ' r e 19

s a y i ng r ough l y a 40 - hou r we e k w i l l be on t he l ow s i de? 20

Th a t ' s c o r r e c t . 21 A .

A l l r i gh t . So t ha t ' s abou t ano t he r 480 hou r s 22 Q .

f o r one s eme s t e r and t he r e a r e f ou r s eme s t e r s o f t ha t 23

l oad ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 24

We l l t h e r e ' s b l o c k s a g a i n . Th e r e ' s s i x a nd 25 A .

279

e i gh t - we e k b l o c k s , s o i t ' s - - t h e r e ' s s e v e n b l o c k s p e r 1

y e a r t h a t a r e e i t h e r s i x o r e i gh t we e k s l ong . 2

So wou l d you s a y an a v e r age o f s e v en we e k s i n 3 Q .

t hos e b l oc k s? 4

Cou l d . 5 A .

And so s e v en we e k s t i me s s e v en b l oc k s i s 6 Q .

r ough l y 49 we e k s? 7

49 we e k s , uh - huh .8 A .

A t abou t 40 hou r s a we e k? 9 Q .

Ye s . We ' r e k i nd e nough t o s e nd t h e s t ud e n t s , 10 A .

h a l f t h e s t ud e n t s home f o r Th a n k s g i v i ng a nd h a l f home 11

f o r Ch r i s t ma s . 12

So i t l ook s l i k e - - and someone c an co r r e c t my 13 Q .

ma t h i f I ' v e go t i t w r ong - - bu t i t l ook s l i k e we ' r e 14

t a l k i ng abou t 1960 hou r s f o r t hos e s e cond t wo y e a r s o f 15

s choo l ; doe s t ha t sound abou t r i gh t ?16

P r ob a b l y . 17 A .

Jus t ba c k o f t he env e l ope? 18 Q .

C l o s e e nough . 19 A .

So 1960 p l us 1440 come s ou t t o , t he numbe r I 20 Q .

go t wa s abou t 3400 . 21

I ' l l t a k e y ou r wo r d f o r i t . 22 A .

Ok a y . And t ha t doe sn ' t f a c t o r i n we e k ends and 23 Q .

e x t r a cu r r i cu l a r s o r any t h i ng l i k e t ha t . So r ough l y 24

3400 hou r s , and t ha t ' s j us t i n v e t e r i na r y s choo l , t ha t 25

280

doe sn ' t e v en coun t unde r g r ad . Now ou t o f 3400 hou r s , 1

you r t e s t i mony i s abou t a ha l f hou r o f c l a s s r oom t i me 2

i s spen t on t he p r a c t i c e o f f l oa t i ng ; i s t ha t r i gh t ?3

Th e c l a s s r oom t i me , y e s . 4 A .

Ok a y . Now you d i d a t ou r depos i t i on , you 5 Q .

t a l k ed abou t , abou t who ge t s add i t i ona l t r a i n i ng i n 6

f l oa t i ng and how many ho r s e s t he y m i gh t s e e . So you 7

s a i d i n t he depos i t i on t ha t you t hough t abou t 8

10 pe r c en t o f any g i v en v e t c l a s s wou l d f ocus on 9

ho r s e s ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 10

We l l , l e t ' s s e e . 11 A .

I c an r e ad you t he que s t i on - - 12 Q .

Th a t ' s r i gh t , y e a h , 10 t o 12 p e r c e n t . I f we 13 A .

h a v e i n a c l a s s o f 110 s t ud e n t s , we h a v e a n ywh e r e f r om 14

10 t o 15 s t ud e n t s t h a t a r e s e r i ou s l y i n t e r e s t e d i n 15

e qu i n e p r a c t i c e , we f e e l l i k e we h a v e a l o t . 16

Tha t ' s a good y e a r . 17 Q .

Ok a y . 18 A .

Then i t ' s a c t ua l l y a l mos t p r e c i s e l y wha t you 19 Q .

s a i d i n t he depos i t i on . 20

Ok a y . 21 A .

So you s a i d , onc e we we r e t a l k i ng abou t t ha t , 22 Q .

my qu e s t i on wa s , " How ma n y hou r s wou l d on e o f t h e - - "23

o r " i s t he r e any wa y t o e s t i ma t e how many hou r s one o f 24

t he s e equ i ne spe c i a l i s t s t uden t s m i gh t spend f l oa t i ng 25

281

wh i l e t he y ' r e i n s choo l ? " You s a i d t he r e wa sn ' t r e a l l y 1

a wa y t o e s t i ma t e t ha t , bu t you ' d gue s s t ha t t he y wou l d 2

do abou t 10 t o 20 ho r s e s ; doe s t ha t sound abou t r i gh t ? 3

Ye s . Be t we e n t h e i n - c l i n i c wo r k a nd t h e 4 A .

ambu l a t o r y wo r k , t ho s e 10 t o 15 s t ud e n t s wou l d p r ob a b l y 5

a v e r a g e 15 ho r s e s , ma y b e a l i t t l e mo r e . We h a v e , we 6

h a v e o t h e r i n t e r e s t i ng oppo r t un i t i e s l i k e t h i s . 7

Th i s mon t h , I t h i n k , ma y b e e v e n c om i ng up , o r 8

ma y b e i t ' s a l r e a d y h a pp e n e d , Do c t o r Wh i t t l e wa s k i nd 9

e nough t o h a v e a l l t h e s t ud e n t s c ome o v e r t h a t we r e 10

i n t e r e s t e d t o do t e e t h a t t h e L awn Me a dows Huma n e 11

So c i e t y F a r m . I don ' t k now how ma n y ho r s e s a r e t h e r e , 12

bu t t h a t wou l d b e e x t r a . We h a v e o t h e r oppo r t un i t i e s 13

l i k e t h a t . Bu t on a n a v e r a g e , 15 t o 20 ho r s e s . 14

Ok a y . And you r t e s t i mony wa s a l so t ha t e v en 15 Q .

t hos e s t uden t s who t ook k i nd o f an equ i ne i n t e r e s t 16

t r a c k wou l d no t ne c e s s a r i l y be cons i de r ed p r o f i c i en t 17

onc e t he y g r adua t ed ; t he y wou l d ha v e a ba s i c l e v e l o f 18

unde r s t and i ng . I s t ha t r i gh t ? 19

Th a t ' s t r u e . 20 A .

Ok a y . And aga i n , t h i s i s - - I t h i nk you s a i d , 21 Q .

10 t o 12 pe r c en t o f a c l a s s wou l d g r adua t e w i t h , s a y , a 22

ha l f hou r o f c l a s s r oom t r a i n i ng p l us 10 t o 20 ho r s e s 23

ou t o f r ough l y 3400 hou r s o f v e t e r i na r y s choo l ? 24

Th a t ' s t r u e . 25 A .

282

And i n t he me an t i me t he y wou l d a l so be do i ng 1 Q .

c l i n i c s i n o t he r t ype s o f an i ma l s a s we l l ; i sn ' t t ha t 2

r i gh t ? 3

A l l s p e c i e s . 4 A .

Ok a y . So t he y de a l some w i t h sma l l an i ma l s , 5 Q .

de a l some w i t h l i v e s t oc k , f ood an i ma l s ; co r r e c t ? 6


And t he r e ' s no op t i on f o r someone who j us t 8 Q .

wan t s t o f ocus on one k i nd o f an i ma l , i s t he r e? 9

On l y du r i ng t h e i r e l e c t i v e a nd f r e e b l o c k 10 A .

oppo r t un i t i e s . So t ho s e b l o c k s , t h e r e a r e s e v e n o f 11

t h em , s ome b l o c k s a r e f r e e . Th e s t ud e n t s , c e r t a i n 12

numb e r s o f s t ud e n t s c a n go o f f on t h e i r own , a nd t h e y 13

ma y go wo r k w i t h s ome bod y who do e s on l y d e n t i s t r y , f o r 14

e x amp l e , bu t t h e y do t h a t on t h e i r own , t h a t ' s s o r t o f 15

s e l f d i r e c t e d . 16

I t ' s an e l e c t i v e? 17 Q .

Ye a h . 18 A .

THE W I TNESS : Pa r don me f o r l e an i ng ba c k , bu t I 19

ha v e t o s t r a i t en my kne e .20

MR . ROLAND : Tha t ' s ok a y . 21

THE COURT : I f you ne ed t o t a k e a b r e a k , l e t me 22

k now . 23

THE W I TNESS : No , I ' m f i n e .24

( BY MR . ROLAND ) Ha v e you w r i t t en any a c adem i c 25 Q .

283

s t ud i e s r e l a t ed t o f l oa t i ng i n pa r t i cu l a r ? 1

No . 2 A .

Do you r emembe r t he l a s t t i me you r e v i ewed an 3 Q .

a c adem i c s t udy f ocus ed on f l oa t i ng? 4

We l l y ou c ou l d l oo k on t h e d a t e s o f J ame s 5 A .

Ca r ma l t ' s p a p e r s . He a l s o p r e s e n t e d t ho s e a t t h e AAEP 6

me e t i ng a bou t t h r e e y e a r s a go , s o I wou l d s a y i n t h e 7

l a s t , i n t h e b r o a d r a ng e , t h r e e t o f i v e y e a r s . I 8

p r e t t y mu c h r e a d t h r ough t h e who l e boo k on , on Do c t o r 9

E a s l e y Sho ema k e r ' s boo k , t h e n ew e d i t i on o f i t . 10

Ok a y . 11 Q .

MR . ROLAND : I ne ed t o f i nd t hos e s t ud i e s on he a t . 12

THE COURT : D i d t hos e come i n t h r ough Ga l l owa y? 13

MR . ROLAND : I t h i nk t he y d i d . The he a t s t ud i e s . 14

THE COURT : He r e ' s t he t wo . 15

( BY MR . ROLAND ) Ok a y . I ' m go i ng t o hand t o 16 Q .

you wha t ' s l abe l l ed P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 16 , wh i ch i s a 17

s t udy en t i t l ed " I n v i t r o s t udy o f he a t p r oduc t i on 18

du r i ng powe r r educ t i on o f equ i ne mand i bu l a r t e e t h . " 19

Ha v e you r e v i ewed t h i s s t udy be f o r e? 20

I r ememb e r r e a d i ng t h i s p a p e r . And I a l s o 21 A .

t h i n k t h i s p e r s on g a v e a p r e s e n t a t i on a t e i t h e r t h e 22

AAEP o r t h e AVMA d e n t i s t r y f o r um . 23

Ok a y . Now my unde r s t and i ng f r om t h i s pape r i s 24 Q .

t ha t t he dange r s on t ha t t he y we r e i den t i f y i ng w i t h an 25

284

i n c r e a s e i n he a t i n t e e t h wa s 5 . 5 deg r e e s c en t i g r ade . 1

Doe s t ha t sound co r r e c t t o you? 2

I c ou l dn ' t s a y w i t hou t r e a d i ng t h e p a p e r a g a i n . 3 A .

Ok a y . Cou l d you r e ad t he h i gh l i gh t ed s en t enc e 4 Q .

a t t he bo t t om o f t ha t f i r s t page , p l e a s e . 5

We l l , t h a t s e n t e n c e a pp l i e s t o p e op l e ; I don ' t 6 A .

k now i f t h a t wou l d b e a pp l i c a b l e t o ho r s e s . 7

R i gh t . So my unde r s t and i ng i s t ha t t he y we r e 8 Q .

us i ng ou r unde r s t and i ng o f p r i ma t e den t i t i on a s a 9

s t a r t i ng po i n t f o r unde r s t and i ng wha t m i gh t be a t h r e a t 10

f o r o t he r t ype s o f an i ma l s . Doe s t ha t sound co r r e c t 11

ba s ed on you r unde r s t and i ng o f t h i s a r t i c l e? 12

Th i s i s a r e v i ew o f t h e l i t e r a t u r e h e r e . I t ' s 13 A .

h i gh l i gh t e d . So t h e y ' r e quo t i ng a p a p e r s omewh e r e . 14

Wh a t t h e s e p e op l e u s e f o r e qu i n e t e e t h , i t s a y s 30 15

p r emo l a r a nd mo l a r t e e t h r emo v e d f r om ma nd i b l e s o f 8 16

e qu i n e h e a d s c o l l e c t e d a t a s l a ugh t e r hou s e . 17

So t h e i r s t ud y wa s don e on e qu i n e t e e t h . Wh a t 18

t h e y ' r e s a y i ng i s , i n t h e l i t e r a t u r e i t s a y s t h a t a 5 . 5 19

d e g r e e c e n t i g r a d e t emp e r a t u r e c a n d ama g e huma n t e e t h . 20

R i gh t , r i gh t . 21 Q .

So t h a t wou l d b e v e r y d i f f i c u l t t o s a y i f 22 A .

t h a t ' s t h e t emp e r a t u r e t h a t d ama g e s e qu i n e t e e t h . 23

Ok a y . To t he be s t o f you r know l edge doe s t h i s 24 Q .

e s t ab l i sh a t empe r a t u r e a t wh i ch t he y a r e conc e r ned 25

285

t ha t equ i ne t e e t h m i gh t be damaged? 1

I t wou l d b e a s t a r t i ng po i n t . I me a n , t h a t ' s 2 A .

wh y y ou do l i t e r a t u r e r e v i ews . Th e y d e t e r m i n e t h a t - - 3

I me a n , t emp e r a t u r e i n c r e a s e s wa s 1 . 2 d e g r e e s 4

c e n t i g r a d e a t on e t h e r mo c oup l e a nd 6 . 6 a pp r o x i ma t e 5

t h e r mo c oup l e . So t h e y a c t u a l l y , t h e e qu i n e t e e t h go t 6

ho t t e r a t on e o f t h e t h e r mo c oup l e s t h a n t h e huma n 7

t e e t h . 8

And t he sou r c e o f t he he a t i nc r e a s e wa s 9 Q .

f r i c t i on c aus ed by t he app l i c a t i on o f - - 10

O f a me c h a n i c a l - - o r a powe r - d r i v e n f l o a t . 11 A .

Ok a y . 12 Q .

I t s hou l d s a y t h a t . Ye a h . Th r e e me t hod s o f 13 A .

e qu i n e d e n t a l r e du c t i on w i t h powe r i n s t r ume n t s . Th a t ' s 14

wh a t t h e y we r e l oo k i ng a t . 15

Ok a y . And i f you cou l d , t u r n t o t he l a s t page 16 Q .

o f t he a r t i c l e . I t l ook s l i k e Page 1131 . Then cou l d 17

you r e ad t ha t l a s t pa r ag r aph o f t he a r t i c l e . 18

( W i t n e s s Comp l i e s ) . You wa n t me t o r e a d i t ou t 19 A .

l oud?20

Ye s , p l e a s e . 21 Q .

Oh , s o r r y . " Re s u l t s o f ou r s t ud y i nd i c a t e t h a t 22 A .

du r i ng r ou t i n e d e n t a l p r oph y l a x i s , t emp e r a t u r e c h a ng e s 23

a t t h e d e n t i no - pu l p a l j un c t i on do no t i n c r e a s e a bo v e 24

t h e t h e r ma l s a f e t y ma r g i n f o r pu l p t i s s u e s e x t r a po l a t e d 25

286

f r om huma n s . " Th e r e ' s a b i g p r ob l em w i t h e x t r a po l a t i ng 1

f r om huma n s . " Howe v e r , i t i s c l e a r t h a t powe r g r i nd i ng 2

o f l ong e r du r a t i on s , e qu i v a l e n t t o t ho s e r e qu i r e d f o r 3

r emo v i ng ma j o r hoo k s , o v e r g r own t e e t h , o r c r e a t i ng a 4

b i t s e a t , i s l i k e l y t o c r e a t e a pu l p n e c r o s i s f r om 5

t h e r ma l t r a uma . " 6

So , y ou k now , a l o t o f i t d e p e nd s on , y ou k now , 7

d i d t h e y r e gu l a t e t h e amoun t o f t i me ? I t h i n k y ou 8

c ou l d p r ob a b l y go i n t o t h e ma t e r i a l s a nd me t hod s a nd 9

f i nd e x a c t l y t h e s e c ond s o r m i nu t e s t h a t t h e y , a nd how 10

f a s t t h e powe r t h i ng wa s mo v i ng . 11

I be l i e v e t ha t ' s a c t ua l l y - - 12 Q .

Bu t c a n a p e r s on , c a n a p e r s on who ma y b e h a s n ' t 13 A .

r e a d t h a t o r und e r s t a nd t h a t , c a n t h e y r e a l l y d e t e r m i n e 14

t h a t t h e y ' r e no t s p e nd i ng t oo mu c h t i me on t h e t oo t h 15

wou l d b e my qu e s t i on? 16

We l l , we ' l l t a l k abou t t ha t . 17 Q .

Non - v e t e r i n a r i a n o r v e t e r i n a r i a n . 18 A .

We ' l l t a l k abou t t ha t . Bu t my c a r r y awa y - - 19 Q .

and co r r e c t me i f you f e e l l i k e I ' m r e ad i ng t h i s 20

i mp r ope r l y - - bu t my t a k e - awa y f r om t ha t l a s t pa r ag r aph 21

i s , t ha t du r i ng r ou t i ne den t a l p r ophy l a x i s , t empe r a t u r e 22

change s a t t he den t i na l den t i no - pu l pa l j unc t i on do no t 23

i nc r e a s e abov e t he t he r ma l s a f e t y ma r g i n f o r pu l p 24

t i s sue s . 25

287

As t h e s e p e op l e ' s a pp l i e d i t . 1 A .

Ok a y . Le t ' s l ook a t t h i s s e cond a r t i c l e now , 2 Q .

i f you w i l l . Ta k e a m i nu t e t o f i l l i n you r e y e s , 3

you r s e l f . Ha v e you s e en t h i s a r t i c l e be f o r e? 4

No . 5 A .

Ok a y . 6 Q .

Th i s i s f r om a f o r e i gn j ou r n a l . O r i t ' s a t 7 A .

l e a s t c om i ng f r om Au s t r a l i a . 8

Le t me know when you ' r e r e ady . 9 Q .

Ok a y . 10 A .

Ok a y . Now my unde r s t and i ng o f t h i s a r t i c l e i s 11 Q .

t ha t t he y t r i ed t o a c t ua l l y app l y some o f t he s e 12

p r i nc i p l e s t o equ i ne t e e t h ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 13

Th e s e p e op l e d i d t oo ( w i t n e s s i nd i c a t i ng ) .14 A .

Ok a y . And one o f t he t h i ngs t ha t t he y d i d wa s 15 Q .

t he y t ook t wo d i f f e r en t t ype s o f t oo l s , a d i e g r i nde r 16

and a d i s k and t hen app l i ed t hem t o t e e t h o f d i f f e r en t 17

aged ho r s e s f o r s l i gh t l y d i f f e r en t l eng t hs o f t i me .18

Th a t ' s s ound s l i k e wh a t t h e y d i d . 19 A .

Ok a y . And t he r e su l t s appe a r t o be shown i n a 20 Q .

s e t o f f i gu r e s on Page s 76 and 77 , and I wan t t o s t a r t 21

w i t h F i gu r e 1 . Now , t o me i t appe a r s t ha t one o f t he s e 22

ba r s i nd i c a t i ng he a t i nc r e a s e e x t ends we l l f u r t he r t han 23

t he o t he r s . Doe s t ha t appe a r . . . 24

Ye a h . 25 A .

288

Ok a y . And t he s c a l e a t t he bo t t om o f t ha t 1 Q .

f i gu r e i nd i c a t e s t ha t i t i s t empe r a t u r e r i s i ng deg r e e s 2

c e l s i us ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 3


And t he one ba r t ha t e x t ends f u r t he r ou t t han 5 Q .

t he o t he r s goe s t o a l i t t l e mo r e t han , s a y , 4 and a 6

ha l f deg r e e s c e l s i us ; doe s t ha t appe a r co r r e c t ? 7

We l l , a l mo s t go e s t o 5 b e c a u s e i t ' s s t a nd a r d o f 8 A .

e r r o r . 9

S t anda r d o f e r r o r ge t s you ne a r l y t o 5? 10 Q .

Co r r e c t . 11 A .

Ok a y . A l l bu t one o f t he o t he r ba r s appe a r t o 12 Q .

be be l ow 3 deg r e e s c e l s i us ; i s t ha t a l so co r r e c t ? 13

Co r r e c t . 14 A .

And t he one t ha t goe s be yond 3 deg r e e s doe sn ' t 15 Q .

go f a r be yond , doe s i t ? 16

No , j u s t . . . 17 A .

Ok a y . So I ' d l i k e t o go t o t he l a s t pa r ag r aph 18 Q .

o f t h i s s t udy . And i f you wou l d cou l d you r e ad t he 19

conc l us i on t he r e . 20

Re s u l t s o f t h i s s t ud y i nd i c a t e powe r e d t oo t h 21 A .

g r i nd i ng po s e s a mod e r a t e r i s k wh e n und e r t a k e n i n y oung 22

ho r s e s u s i ng a n a b r a s i v e d i e w i t h no wa t e r i r r i g a t i on , 23

wh e r e a s t h e i n c r e a s e d d e n t i n t h i c k n e s s i n o l d e r ho r s e s 24

a pp e a r s t o m i t i g a t e a g a i n s t t h e r ma l i n j u r y f r om 25

289

f r i c t i on a l h e a t . 1

Ok a y . So t he r e i s one wo r d co r r e c t i on t ha t I ' d 2 Q .

l i k e t o ma k e . I t doe sn ' t appe a r t o s a y mode r a t e , i t 3

appe a r s t o s a y mode s t ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 4

Mod e s t , y e a h .5 A .

Ok a y . So t he t a k e - awa y f r om t h i s s t udy i s t ha t 6 Q .

powe r ed t oo t h g r i nd i ng pos e s a mode s t r i s k when 7

unde r t a k en i n young ho r s e s us i ng an ab r a s i v e d i e w i t h 8

no wa t e r i r r i ga t i on? 9

Ok a y . Th a t ' s a s s um i ng who e v e r ' s do i ng t h em c a n 10 A .

do t h em e x a c t l y l i k e t h e s e p e op l e . 11

Tha t ' s t r ue . Bu t a s f a r a s we know , t h i s i s 12 Q .

t he s t a t e o f t he r e s e a r ch a t p r e s en t ; co r r e c t ? 13

Co r r e c t . 14 A .

Ok a y . Now , wou l d you ag r e e w i t h me t ha t e v en 15 Q .

t he sp i k e i n F i gu r e 1 i nd i c a t i ng a young d i e , o r a d i e 16

he l d on t he t oo t h o f a young ho r s e f o r a du r a t i on o f 17

abou t 20 s e conds , t he i r me a su r emen t s s t i l l h ad t he he a t 18

r ema i n i ng be l ow 5 deg r e e s c en t i g r ade i nc r e a s e ; i s t ha t 19

co r r e c t ? 20

Th a t ' s wh a t t h e g r a ph s a y s . 21 A .

Ok a y . And so a t l e a s t i f we we r e t h i nk i ng i n 22 Q .

t e r ms o f human t e e t h , we wou l d no t a s sume t ha t t ha t 23

l e v e l o f t empe r a t u r e i nc r e a s e wou l d ne c e s s a r i l y r e su l t 24

i n damage t o t he t oo t h . I s t ha t a f a i r t a k e - awa y f r om 25

290

t he s e t wo s t ud i e s? 1

Ye a h . 2 A .

Ok a y . When us i ng powe r t oo l s , how f r equen t l y 3 Q .

wou l d you s a y you l e a v e t he t oo l app l i ed t o one t oo t h 4

f o r a du r a t i on a s l ong a s 20 s e conds? 5

You s hou l dn ' t . 6 A .

Ok a y . So you wou l d ne v e r do t ha t ? 7 Q .

I wou l d t r y no t t o . 8 A .

Ok a y . When you a r e us i ng a powe r t oo l , c an you 9 Q .

app r ox i ma t e t he l onge s t t ha t you wou l d l e a v e i t app l i ed 10

t o any pa r t i cu l a r spo t on a t oo t h? 11

I ' d s a y , a t t h e mo s t h a l f o f t h a t t i me , h a l f 12 A .

t h a t amoun t o f t i me . 13

My unde r s t and i ng i s t ha t when someone i s us i ng 14 Q .

a powe r t oo l t o f l oa t t e e t h , t he y t yp i c a l l y k e ep t he 15

t oo l i n mo t i on , a t l e a s t gene r a l l y spe a k i ng ; i s t ha t 16

co r r e c t ? 17

Ye s . 18 A .

I f t he r e ' s a p r ob l em a r e a o r a spe c i f i c a r e a 19 Q .

t ha t ne eds t o be add r e s s ed , t he y m i gh t s t a y t he r e o r 20

l i nge r t he r e l onge r - -21

Th a t ' s c o r r e c t .22 A .

- - bu t - - 23 Q .

MR . ROLAND : You r hono r , ma y we con f e r a momen t ? 24

THE COURT : Ye s . You ma y app r oa ch .25

291

( The a t t o r ne y s app r oa ched t he bench and a 1

d i s cus s i on wa s he l d w i t h t he Cou r t o f f t he r e co r d . )2

THE COURT : You ma y p r oc e ed .3

MR . ROLAND : I f o r go t whe r e I wa s .4

( The l a s t pos ed que s t i on and answe r wa s r e ad5

ba c k by t he Repo r t e r . )6

( BY MR . ROLAND) I n wa t ch i ng you r s t uden t s who 7 Q .

a r e j us t l e a r n i ng how t o f l oa t t e e t h , do you be l i e v e 8

t ha t i t i s common f o r t hem t o l e a v e t he t oo l app l i ed t o 9

a t oo t h f o r an unusua l l y l ong du r a t i on? 10

I f I ' m no t a f t e r t h em . I f I ' m no t a f t e r t h em 11 A .

t e l l i ng t h em no t t o do t h a t . Th e y c a n , t h e y c a n b e c ome 12

f o c u s e d on wh a t t h e y ' r e do i ng a nd s t a y on a t oo t h t oo 13

l ong . I h a v e t o s a y , k e e p mo v i ng . 14

Ok a y . 15 Q .

O r we , we h a v e a n i r r i g a t i on . We ' r e no t 16 A .

f o r t un a t e e nough t o h a v e a powe r f l o a t t h a t y ou c a n s e e 17

w i t h a n i r r i g a t i on d e v i c e on i t , t h e n ew on e s h a v e 18

t h a t , bu t we h a v e n ' t b e e n a b l e t o a f f o r d t h a t y e t , s o 19

we h a v e , we a t t a c h a n i r r i g a t i on d e v i c e t o t h e t e e t h , 20

k e e p wa t e r f l ow i ng . Bu t s ome o f t h e n ewe r e qu i pme n t ' s 21

go t wa t e r a nd s u c t i on , s o i t wou l d b e n i c e t o h a v e 22

t h a t . 23

Ok a y . So wou l d you s a y t ha t , t ha t t h i s k i nd o f 24 Q .

abs en t m i ndedne s s t ha t you sugge s t ed m i gh t a f f e c t a new 25

292

s t uden t , i s t ha t some t h i ng - - i s t ha t a s t a t e o f m i nd 1

t ha t ' s l i k e l y t o r eoc cu r a s t he y be come mo r e s k i l l ed? 2

Hop e f u l l y t h e y wou l d b e c ome mo r e a t t e n t i v e t o 3 A .

wh a t t h e y ' r e do i ng .4

Ok a y . 5 Q .

Bu t I c ou l d s e e t h a t h a pp e n i ng w i t h bo t h . I 6 A .

me a n , t h e s t ud e n t s do i ng t h a t i s f r om i n e x p e r i e n c e , s o 7

I c ou l d s e e t h a t h a pp e n i ng w i t h i n e x p e r i e n c e d 8

non - v e t e r i n a r i a n t oo t h f l o a t e r s t oo . 9

Su r e . Bu t i t ' s t he k i nd o f t h i ng t ha t , w i t h 10 Q .

e xpe r i enc e you wou l d e xpe c t t he r e t o be l e s s o f ; 11

co r r e c t ? 12

Ye s . 13 A .

And do you t h i nk t ha t a non - v e t e r i na r i an 14 Q .

f l oa t e r wou l d be l e s s qu i c k t o l e a r n t ha t you shou l dn ' t 15

ho l d t he t oo l i n one l oc a t i on f o r t ha t du r a t i on o f 16

t i me? 17

I t d e p e nd s e n t i r e l y on t h e i r t r a i n i ng . 18 A .

Ok a y . A l l r i gh t . 19 Q .

MR . ROLAND : I t h i nk I ' m done w i t h t hos e . 20

( BY MR . ROLAND ) Do I r emembe r co r r e c t l y t ha t 21 Q .

you ha v e no t pe r sona l l y e v a l ua t ed t he wo r k o f a 22

non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r ? 23

Th a t I k now o f , t h a t I k n ew o f , y e s . 24 A .

So t ha t ' s , no , you ha v e no t ? 25 Q .

293

I h a v e no t t h a t I k now o f . 1 A .

A r e you awa r e o f any a c adem i c s t ud i e s t ha t 2 Q .

compa r e t he s k i l l s o f a v e t e r i na r y equ i ne den t i s t 3

v e r sus non - v e t e r i na r y o r f l oa t e r s? 4

No . 5 A .

When we spok e a t t he depos i t i on , you a c t ua l l y 6 Q .

men t i oned t he USDA s t ud i e s t ha t had be en done on equ i ne 7

he a l t h i n 1998 and 2005 . Do you r emembe r us d i s cus s i ng 8

t ha t ? 9

Ye s . 10 A .

Ok a y . I ' d l i k e t o go ov e r pa r t o f t ha t w i t h 11 Q .

you , i f I ma y . I f you wou l d , open up t o Page 18 . 12

Ok a y . 13 A .

As you ' l l s e e , t h i s page a t t he t op , t he t i t l e 14 Q .

i s " He a l t h c a r e i n f o r ma t i on sou r c e s . " And wou l d you 15

ag r e e w i t h me t ha t i t l ook s l i k e t he y a r e a t t emp t i ng t o 16

e v a l ua t e whe r e ho r s e owne r s a r e l i k e l y t o ob t a i n 17

i n f o r ma t i on abou t t he i r ho r s e s ' he a l t h? 18

We l l , I don ' t k now . Th e t i t l e o f t h e t a b l e 19 A .

t h a t we ' r e l oo k i ng a t s a y s , " Pe r c e n t o f op e r a t i on s b y 20

l e v e l o f i mpo r t a n c e a s i n f o r ma t i on s ou r c e s f o r e qu i n e 21

h e a t h c a r e d e c i s i on s . " Ok a y , I s e e wh a t we ' r e do i ng . 22

Ok a y . 23

So wou l d you ag r e e t ha t t he e f f o r t i n t h i s 24 Q .

s t udy , o r a t l e a s t i n t h i s pa r t o f t he s t udy i s t o 25

294

e v a l ua t e whe r e t he he ads o f ope r a t i ons a r e g l e an i ng 1

t he i r i n f o r ma t i on abou t equ i ne he a l t hc a r e? 2

Ok a y . 3 A .

And t o be c l e a r , t h i s doe s no t ne c e s s a r i l y 4 Q .

i nd i c a t e a pe r c en t age o f ho r s e s a f f e c t ed , r a t he r i t ' s 5

on l y i nd i c a t i ng t he numbe r o f ope r a t i ons ; i s t ha t 6

co r r e c t ? 7

Th a t ' s wh a t i t s a y s , p e r c e n t o f op e r a t i on s . 8 A .

Ok a y . Now a s one m i gh t e xpe c t , i t s a y s t ha t , 9 Q .

i f you l ook a t t he t op l e f t pa r t o f t h i s cha r t , i t s a y s 10

t ha t 84 pe r c en t o f t he s e ope r a t i ons r a t e t he 11

v e t e r i na r i an a s a v e r y i mpo r t an t sou r c e o f he a l t h c a r e 12

i n f o r ma t i on . I s t ha t r i gh t ? 13

I f I ' m i n t e r p r e t i ng i t c o r r e c t l y , y e s . 14 A .

Ok a y . I f you l ook a l i t t l e b i t f u r t he r down , 15 Q .

howe v e r , i t a l so s a y s t ha t 49 . 2 pe r c en t o f t he 16

ope r a t i ons r a t ed f a r r i e r s a s v e r y i mpo r t an t sou r c e s f o r 17

equ i ne he a l t h i n f o r ma t i on . Doe s i t l ook l i k e I ' m 18

r e ad i ng t ha t co r r e c t l y? 19

Ye a h . So wh a t i s t h e d e f i n i t i on o f e qu i n e 20 A .

h e a l t h c a r e ? Do t h e y p r o v i d e t h a t ? 21

Tha t ' s a good que s t i on . The y do no t spe c i f y . 22 Q .

I t doe s no t appe a r - - 23

Ma y I e d i t o r i a l i z e ? 24 A .

Su r e .25 Q .

295

On e o f t h e ma j o r c a u s e s o f h e a l t h p r ob l ems f o r 1 A .

ho r s e s i s l ame n e s s , p r ob l ems w i t h t h e l owe r l e g s a nd 2

f e e t . And s o i t do e s n ' t s u r p r i s e me t h a t b e c a u s e 3

l ame n e s s i s s o c ommon a nd s u c h a h e a l t h c a r e p r ob l em 4

t h a t t h e y wou l d s e e k ou t a f a r r i e r t o h e l p t h em l oo k 5

f o r ho r s e s ' f e e t i n do i ng s ome t y p e o f c o r r e c t i v e . Bu t 6

s i n c e i t do e s n ' t s a y we ' l l n e v e r k now . 7

Ok a y . I t h i nk t ha t t ha t wou l d be a f a i r 8 Q .

a s sump t i on my s e l f . I f you ' d t u r n t o Page 20 i t 9

a c t ua l l y add r e s s e s f oo t c a r e . Ok a y . So i f you ' d l i k e 10

I ' l l g i v e you a m i nu t e t o r e v i ew t h i s page . 11

Ok a y . 12 A .

Ok a y . Cou l d you r e ad t he box a t t he t op 13 Q .

unde r ne a t h t he he ad i ng " Hoo f Ca r e . " 14

" Re g a r d l e s s o f t h e s i z e o f op e r a t i on , a h i r e d 15 A .

p r o f e s s i on a l f a r r i e r u s u a l l y t r i mme d ho r s e s a nd 16

p e r f o r me d r ou t i n e a nd c o r r e c t i v e s ho e i ng on a l a r g e r 17

p e r c e n t a g e o f op e r a t i on s t h a n d i d op e r a t i on p e r s onn e l , 18

a v e t e r i n a r i a n , o r o t h e r ou t s i d e p e r s on . Op e r a t i on 19

p e r s onn e l t r i mme d hoo v e s on mo r e op e r a t i on s t h a n t h e y 20

s hod hoo v e s r e g a r d l e s s o f t h e s i z e o f op e r a t i on . Th e 21

p e r c e n t a g e s o f op e r a t i on s t h a t p r o v i d e d s ho e i ng ( bo t h 22

r ou t i n e a nd c o r r e c t i v e ) f o r e qu i d s i n c r e a s e d w i t h 23

i n c r e a s i ng s i z e o f t h e op e r a t i on . A h i gh e r 24

p r o f e s s i on a l f a r r i e r p r e dom i n a n t l y p e r f o r me d c o r r e c t i v e 25

296

s ho e i ng . "1

Ok a y . Now , i n r e ad i ng t h i s i s i t you r 2 Q .

unde r s t and i ng t ha t when t he y a r e r e f e r r i ng t o a h i r ed 3

p r o f e s s i ona l f a r r i e r t he y a r e no t t a l k i ng abou t a 4

l i c ens ed v e t e r i na r i an? 5


I n f a c t t he r e ' s a s epa r a t e c a t ego r y f o r 7 Q .

v e t e r i na r i an i n t he s e r e spons e s? 8


And i f you l ook a t t he box f o r " Hoo f t r i mm i ng " , 10 Q .

wh i ch i s i n t he cha r t l abe l ed " Pe r c en t Ope r a t i ons by 11

S i z e o f Ope r a t i on " , whe r e i t s a y s " Numbe r Equ i ds " , i f 12

you l ook a c r os s t ha t cha r t , r ega r d l e s s o f t he s i z e o f 13

t he ope r a t i on , i t appe a r s t ha t h i r ed p r o f e s s i ona l 14

f a r r i e r s a r e f a r mo r e l i k e l y t o t r i m hoov e s t han t he 15

o t he r c a t ego r i e s o f p r ov i de r s ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 16

Th a t ' s wh a t i t l oo k s l i k e . 17 A .

Ok a y . And s i m i l a r l y , i f we l ook a t " Co r r e c t i v e 18 Q .

shoe i ng " , wh i ch i s t he bo t t om r ow , i t a l so appe a r s t ha t 19

t h i s i n f o r ma t i on shows t ha t h i ghe r p r o f e s s i ona l 20

f a r r i e r s a r e f a r mo r e l i k e l y t o p r ov i de co r r e c t i v e 21

shoe i ng t han t he o t he r c a t ego r i e s o f p r ov i de r s ; i s t ha t 22

a l so co r r e c t ? 23

Th a t ' s c o r r e c t . 24 A .

I ' d a l so l i k e you t o t u r n t o Page 30 , i f you 25 Q .

297

wou l d . 1


I f you ' l l l ook a t t h i s cha r t he r e , i t ' s a p i e 3 Q .

cha r t l abe l l ed " Pe r c en t o f Ope r a t i ons by Pe r sons Who 4

Adm i n i s t e r t he Ma j o r i t y o f Va c c i na t i ons . " 5

I f I ' m r e ad i ng t h i s co r r e c t l y , i t shows t ha t 6

v e t e r i na r i ans a r e s e t a t 52 . 5 pe r c en t , and t ha t ho r s e s ' 7

owne r s a r e s e t a t 8 . 8 pe r c en t , bu t t ha t ope r a t i on 8

pe r sonne l come i n a t 36 . 9 po i n t . Doe s i t l ook l i k e I ' m 9

r e ad i ng t ha t co r r e c t l y? 10

Ye s . 11 A .

Then i f you wou l d l ook a t Page 41 , p l e a s e . 12 Q .

D i d i t s a y wh e t h e r t h e op e r a t i on p e r s onn e l d i d 13 A .

t h a t und e r t h e i n s t r u c t i on o f a v e t e r i n a r i a n o r no t ?14

I t d i d no t . I t a l so d i d no t s a y whe t he r t he 15 Q .

ope r a t i on pe r sonne l we r e f u l l - t i me emp l oy e e s o f an 16

owne r , so t he r e a r e some que s t i ons t ha t a r e unanswe r ed 17

by t h i s . Bu t aga i n . . . 18

Wh e n I wa s i n p r a c t i c e , we wou l d o f t e n i n s t r u c t 19 A .

f a r m ma n a g e r s a nd p e op l e a t a b a r n how t o g i v e 20

v a c c i n e s , a nd t h e n t o s a v e t h em mon e y we wou l d d i s p e n s e 21

t h e v a c c i n e s t o t h em , wh i c h i s p e r f e c t l y l e g a l , a nd we 22

wou l d a l l ow t h em t o do t h a t , o r t h e y c ou l d do t h a t . 23

So t h a t i s n ' t s u r p r i s i ng t o me a s a 24

v e t e r i n a r i a n , bu t y ou s hou l d f i nd ou t , y ou k now , i f 25

298

t h i s d i dn ' t do t h a t , ob v i ou s l y , bu t d i d t ho s e op e r a t i on 1

p e r s onn e l r e c e i v e a n y i n s t r u c t i on s , a d v i c e f r om 2

v e t e r i n a r i a n s ? 3

Ok a y . 4 Q .

On wh a t v a c c i n e s t o g i v e a nd wh e n t o g i v e t h em . 5 A .

A l l r i gh t . I ' l l ha v e you t u r n t o Page 41 . 6 Q .

Ok a y . 7 A .

So t he cha r t t ha t we ' r e l ook i ng a t on Page 41 8 Q .

add r e s s e s t he numbe r o f da y s l os t by t ype s o f ma l ad i e s 9

t ha t ho r s e s m i gh t encoun t e r , and i t appe a r s t o me t o 10

con f i r m wha t you had s a i d e a r l i e r t ha t l amene s s i s a 11

r e l a t i v e l y s e v e r e p r ob l em . I t i nd i c a t e s t ha t 12

53 pe r c en t o f ope r a t i ons l os t da y s due t o l eg and hoo f 13

p r ob l ems , o r i n j u r y , wounds , t r auma o r l eg and hoo f 14

p r ob l ems . Doe s i t l ook l i k e I ' m r e ad i ng t ha t 15

co r r e c t l y? 16

Ye s . 17 A .

So ha v i ng l ook ed a t t he s e numbe r s and 18 Q .

a c know l edg i ng wha t sho r t com i ngs t he r e a r e w i t h t hem , 19

wha t i s you r i mp r e s s i on a s an equ i ne p r a c t i c e 20

gene r a l i s t abou t why so many peop l e wou l d go t o a 21

h i ghe r p r o f e s s i ona l f a r r i e r f o r i n f o r ma t i on and 22

s e r v i c e s a s oppos ed t o a v e t e r i na r i an? 23

Mo s t l i k e l y h i s t o r i c a l t r a d i t i on . 24 A .

Ok a y . A r e you f am i l i a r w i t h how f a r r i e r s ha v e 25 Q .

299

t r ad i t i ona l l y done bus i ne s s? 1

Somewh a t . I me a n , f a r r i e r s h a v e a - - I me a n 2 A .

f a r r i e r s c a n go t o f a r r i e r s c hoo l f o r t h r e e we e k s a nd 3

go ou t a nd s t a r t h a r m i ng ho r s e s , wh i c h mo s t o f t h em do . 4

Th e y c a n a l s o go t h r ough a n a pp r e n t i c e s h i p p r og r am a nd 5

c e r t i f i c a t i on p r og r am a nd b e c ome j ou r n e yma n f a r r i e r s 6

a nd c e r t i f i e d . I me a n , t h e r e ' s a l l s o r t s o f 7

d e s i gn a t i on s w i t h i n t h e Ame r i c a n F a r r i e r s As s o c i a t i on , 8

s o . . . And mo s t o f t h e f a r r i e r s t h a t I ' m f am i l i a r w i t h 9

t h a t h a v e gon e t h r ough t h a t p r o c e s s a r e v e r y l i k e l y a nd 10

w i l l i ng t o wo r k w i t h v e t e r i n a r i a n s , t o wo r k a s a t e am 11

t o do c o r r e c t i v e s ho e i ng a nd t a k e c a r e o f ho r s e s ' f e e t . 12

F a r r i e r s s hou l dn ' t h a v e , s ome do , I t h i n k i t ' s 13

t e r r i b l e t h a t f a r r i e r s h a v e b e e n a l l owe d t o bu y 14

r a d i og r a ph i c e qu i pme n t a nd t a k e r a d i og r a ph s o f ho r s e s 15

w i t hou t a n y s o r t o f r e gu l a t i on b y t h e s t a t e s t h e y ' r e 16

op e r a t i ng i n , I t h i n k t h a t ' s a r e a l d i s s e r v i c e t o t h e 17

pub l i c . And t h e v e t e r i n a r i a n s u s u a l l y c on s u l t w i t h t h e 18

v e t e r i n a r i a n , g e t r a d i og r a ph s t a k e n , d e c i d e wh a t t h e 19

mo s t a pp r op r i a t e hoo f c a r e i s , a nd c oo r d i n a t e t h a t w i t h 20

t h e h e a l t h c a r e o f t h e ho r s e . 21

I s i t you r unde r s t and i ng t ha t f a r r i e r s 22 Q .

t yp i c a l l y wo r k unde r t he d i r e c t supe r v i s i on o f a 23


No , t h e y don ' t . 25 A .

300

Ok a y . 1 Q .

I f i t i n v o l v e s a n y - - I s hou l d qu a l i f y t h a t . 2 A .

I f i t ' s a s t a nd a r d t y p e o f hoo f c a r e i s s u e , t r i mm i ng 3

t h e ho r s e ' s f e e t a nd a pp l y i ng a s t a nd a r d p a i r o f s ho e s , 4

t h e y u s u a l l y don ' t wo r k und e r t h e s up e r v i s i on o f a 5

v e t e r i n a r i a n . 6

I f t h e y do a n y s o r t o f c o r r e c t i v e s ho e i ng , 7

e s p e c i a l l y i f i t i n v o l v e s d i s e a s e s l i k e l am i n i t i s o r 8

n a v i c u l a r d i s e a s e o r o t h e r p r ob l ems i n v o l v i ng t h e 9

i n s i d e o f a ho r s e ' s f oo t , no t j u s t t h e hoo f c a p s u l e - - 10

a ho r s e ' s hoo f i s l i k e y ou r f i ng e r s , s o t h e y ' r e hoo f 11

c a p s u l e s j u s t l i k e y ou r f i ng e r n a i l . So t r i mm i ng t h e 12

f i ng e r n a i l o r t r i mm i ng t h e hoo f wou l d b e a n a l ogou s . 13

I f y ou g e t i n t o t h e und e r l y i ng p a r t o f ou r 14

f i ng e r n a i l a nd y ou ' r e go i ng h a v e s ome bod y b e s i d e s a 15

ma n i c u r i s t wo r k on t h a t , a nd e v e n ma n i c u r i s t s a r e 16

l i c e n s e d a nd h a v e , h a v e a c c oun t a b i l i t y a t a s t a t e 17

l e v e l , t h e r e ' s a , I t h i n k t h e r e ' s a s t a t e bo a r d o f , i s 18

i t b e a u t y s c hoo l , y ou k now , t h e b e a u t i c i a n c a t e go r y 19

wh e r e t h e y ' r e r e gu l a t e d , s o . . . 20

So t h i s a c t ua l l y begs a que s t i on . Ha v e you 21 Q .

e v e r he a r d o f t he Ve t e r i na r y Med i c a l Boa r d t a k i ng 22

a c t i on aga i ns t a f a r r i e r f o r un l i c ens ed p r a c t i c e o f 23

v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne?24

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ob j e c t i on , t he r e ' s no r e a son why 25

301

t h i s w i t ne s s wou l d know , and a l so I ' d ob j e c t a t t h i s 1

po i n t t o t he r e l e v anc y o f i nqu i r y r ega r d i ng f a r r i e r s . 2

M r . Ro l and , h i ms e l f , ha s s a i d t ha t t he f a c t s o f 3

t h i s a r e na r r ow l y l i m i t ed t o t oo t h f l oa t i ng , now he ' s 4

t a k i ng a f i e l d o f an en t i r e l y d i f f e r en t a r e a o f 5

v e t e r i na r y p r a c t i c e . I know he ha s an equa l p r o t e c t i on 6

a r gumen t t ha t he ' s ma k i ng bu t , you know , I j us t t h i nk 7

t ha t t h i s que s t i on i s j us t go i ng wa y f a r a f i e l d . 8

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , we do ha v e an equa l 9

p r o t e c t i on a r gumen t a s pa r t o f ou r l awsu i t . One o f t he 10

a l l ega t i ons t ha t we ' v e made , and we made qu i t e c l e a r i n 11

ou r a f f i r ma t i v e de f ens e s wa s t ha t t he l aw i s be i ng 12

s e l e c t i v e l y app l i ed . And t h i s l i ne o f que s t i on i ng wa s 13

i n t ended t o sus s ou t t he wa y t ha t f a r r i e r s p r a c t i c e i n 14

t h i s s t a t e , and t he f a c t t ha t t he y a r e no t cu r r en t l y 15

f a c i ng t he s ame so r t o f t r e a t men t t ha t f l oa t e r s a r e . 16

THE COURT : I s t he r e any que s t i on abou t t ha t , o r i s 17

t ha t some t h i ng - - I me an , I gue s s t he r e ' s no que s t i on 18

abou t t ha t , i s t he r e? I me an , i f t he y a r e no t be i ng - - 19

MR . FROWNFELTER : We l l my i mmed i a t e ob j e c t i on i s 20

t ha t t h i s i sn ' t a w i t ne s s who c an be e xpe c t ed t o ha v e 21

an a l l l um i nous know l edge o f wha t a c t i ons t he 22

Ve t e r i na r y Boa r d ha s t a k en r ega r d i ng f a r r i e r s . He ' s 23

he r e a s a w i t ne s s t e s t i f y i ng abou t v e t e r i na r y den t a l . 24

So he ha s some op i n i ons on f a r r i e r s , bu t t he que s t i on 25

302

t ha t ' s a s k ed abou t wha t a c t i on t he Boa r d ha s t a k en , 1

t h i s i sn ' t t he w i t ne s s t o add r e s s i t t o . 2

THE COURT : I suppos e he c an f i nd ou t i f he knows , 3

so I ' l l ov e r r u l e t he ob j e c t i on . 4

I n e v e r h e a r d o f a n y . 5 A .

( BY MR . ROLAND ) Ok a y . And t ha t wa s t he on l y 6 Q .

answe r I wa s l ook i ng f o r .7

We ' v e t a l k ed a l i t t l e b i t abou t t he numbe r o f 8

c l a s s r oom hou r s t ha t someone spends i n v e t e r i na r y 9

s choo l . You ' v e t a l k ed e a r l i e r abou t t he d i f f e r en t 10

f i e l ds o f s t udy t ha t t he y encoun t e r i n v e t e r i na r y 11

s choo l . Do you ha v e a s ens e o f wha t t he cu r r en t cos t 12

o f v e t e r i na r y s choo l i s? 13

We l l , t h e numb e r s t h a t I ' m h e a r i ng a r e s t ud e n t s 14 A .

a r e i n e x c e s s o f a hund r e d t hou s a nd do l l a r s i n d e b t 15

wh e n t h e y g r a du a t e f r om v e t e r i n a r y s c hoo l . 16

Tha t ' s on a v e r age? 17 Q .

Wh e t h e r t h a t a c c umu l a t e s o v e r , y ou k now , 18 A .

p r e - v e t a nd v e t e r i n a r y s c hoo l , I don ' t k now . Bu t i s 19

t h a t t h e i r c o l l e g e e du c a t i on o r i s t h a t j u s t t h e i r 20

v e t e r i n a r y e du c a t i on , I don ' t k now . You ' d h a v e t o a s k 21

a r e c e n t g r a du a t e . 22

Ok a y . One o f t he po i n t s t ha t you t ouched on i n 23 Q .

you r conv e r s a t i on w i t h M r . F r own f e l t e r wa s t ha t a 24

numbe r o f peop l e had be en t ou t i ng t he bene f i t s o f 25

303

f l oa t i ng a s i f i t wa s a so r t o f cu r e a l l . I s i t you r 1

t e s t i mony t ha t on l y non - v e t e r i na r i ans ha v e be en t ou t i ng 2

bene f i t s i n t ha t wa y? 3

No , I ' m s u r e v e t e r i n a r i a n s h a v e don e t h e s ame 4 A .

t h i ng . Un t i l we s t a r t e d h e a r i ng a bou t t h i s l i t e r a t u r e 5

t h a t ' s b e i ng p r odu c e d t o s how t h a t i t ' s no t a s o f g r e a t 6

a b e n e f i t a s we on c e t hough t . I me a n , I ' v e h e a r d a l o t 7

o f v e t e r i n a r i a n s s a y t h a t I don ' t do a s mu c h f l o a t i ng , 8

I t h i n k t h a t c ame up i n t e s t i mon y t od a y . 9

Do you ha v e any pe r sona l know l edge o f wha t 10 Q .

i mpa c t t he s e s t ud i e s ha v e had on t he non - v e t e r i na r i an 11

f l oa t i ng commun i t y? 12

No . 13 A .

So we don ' t know whe t he r t he y m i gh t be r educ i ng 14 Q .

t he f r equenc y o f t he i r s e r v i c e s a s a r e su l t o f t he s e 15

s t ud i e s ; we j us t don ' t , do we?16

I don ' t k now t h a t , no . 17 A .

How many t e e t h do ho r s e s ha v e? 18 Q .

Th e y c a n h a v e a s ma n y a s , p r ob a b l y 44 . Th e y 19 A .

u s u a l l y h a v e a r ound 40 t o 42 t e e t h .20

Wou l d you e xpe c t you r s t uden t s t o know t h i s? 21 Q .

I a s k t h em a t e s t qu e s t i on a bou t i t , s o y e s . 22 A .

A l l t h e y h a v e t o do i s r ememb e r t h e d e n t a l f o r mu l a a nd 23

t h e y c a n a dd up f r om t h e r e .24

On you r CV you ha v e , I t h i nk , some r e f e r enc e s 25 Q .

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t o i n f o r ma t i on abou t t he unwan t ed ho r s e . 1

Ye s . 2 A .

I wa s wonde r i ng i f you cou l d de s c r i be b r i e f l y 3 Q .

wha t you r r e s e a r ch o r w r i t i ng r ega r d i ng t he unwan t ed 4

ho r s e en t a i l ed? 5

I h a v e - - t e c hn i c a l l y I ' v e no t don e a n y 6 A .

r e s e a r c h on t h e unwa n t e d ho r s e . I h a v e w r i t t e n a 7

numb e r o f - - I don ' t k now wh a t y ou wou l d c a l l t h em , 8

do c ume n t a r i e s o r p i e c e s a bou t t h e p l i gh t o f t h e 9

unwa n t e d ho r s e . I ' v e g i v e n p r e s e n t a t i on s a l l o v e r t h e 10

Un i t e d S t a t e s a nd i n t e r n a t i on a l l y a bou t t h e p r ob l em 11

w i t h unwa n t e d ho r s e s i n t h e Un i t e d S t a t e s . I t ' s a 12

s i gn i f i c a n t p r ob l em . I t ' s p r ob a b l y on e t h e ma j o r 13

p r ob l ems f a c i ng t h e ho r s e i ndu s t r y t od a y . 14

Ha v e you ga t he r ed wha t t he r oo t c aus e s o f t h i s 15 Q .

p r ob l em a r e? 16

Two c a u s e s . On e i s t h e t u r n - down i n t h e 17 A .

e c onomy , down t u r n i n t h e e c onomy s i n c e 2007 o r 2008 , 18

a nd t h e o t h e r i s c l o s u r e o f t h e s l a ugh t e r p l a n t s i n t h e 19

Un i t e d S t a t e s . Th e r e h a v e b e e n a c t u a l l y good s u r v e y s 20

don e t o s how t h a t t h a t i s t h e op i n i on o f t h e ho r s e 21

i ndu s t r y , t h a t t ho s e a r e t h e t wo ma i n r e a s on s t h a t 22

t h e r e a r e s o ma n y unwa n t e d ho r s e s . 23

So a s f a r a s t he r e c e s s i on , my unde r s t and i ng i s 24 Q .

t ha t i t t a k e s mone y t o c a r e f o r ho r s e s , and i f you r 25

305

f unds a r e l i m i t ed , i t be come s t ha t much mo r e d i f f i cu l t 1

t o c a r e f o r a ho r s e ; i s t ha t a c cu r a t e? 2


One o f t he t h i ngs t ha t we ' v e t a l k ed abou t i s 4 Q .

how much t he t oo l s o f equ i ne den t i s t r y ha v e changed i n 5

t he l a s t 20 t o 40 y e a r s . Ha s t he a c t ua l den t i t i on o f 6

t he an i ma l s unde r gone a s i m i l a r change o r a r e t he y 7

e f f e c t i v e l y t he s ame a s t he y ' v e be en f o r t hous ands o f 8

y e a r s? 9

We l l , t h e y ' r e t h e s ame a s t h e y ' v e b e e n f o r 10 A .

hund r e d s o f y e a r s , I ' m no t go i ng t o s a y t hou s a nd s o f 11

y e a r s , bu t f o r t h i s c e n t u r y o r t h e p a s t c e n t u r y t h e y ' r e 12

abou t t he s ame . 13

Now ou r unde r s t and i ng o f ho r s e s and t he i r 14 Q .

den t i t i on ha s changed t hough a s we l l , ha sn ' t i t ? 15

Th a t ' s c o r r e c t . 16 A .

So I gue s s one o f t he t h i ngs t ha t I wou l d a s k 17 Q .

i s , i n you r op i n i on doe s t he r i s i ng s t anda r d o f c a r e 18

t ha t v e t e r i na r i ans f e e l e t h i c a l l y ob l i ga t ed t o p r ov i de , 19

doe s t ha t a l so l e ad t o an i nc r e a s e i n cos t o f t he 20

s e r v i c e s t he y p r ov i de? 21

I t h i n k w i t hou t a doub t . I me a n , t h e who l e 22 A .

c o s t o f me d i c a l c a r e f o r p e op l e a nd a n i ma l s h a s 23

i n c r e a s e d d r ama t i c a l l y o v e r t h e l a s t c e n t u r y . And i t ' s 24

go t t e n , y ou k now , a v e r y - - on e o f my h e r o e s i n 25

306

v e t e r i n a r y me d i c i n e , who u s e d t o b e a t t h e Un i v e r s i t y 1

o f M i s s ou r i , Do c t o r J i m Ka u f ma n ( phon e t i c ) on c e s a i d 2

t h a t i t won ' t b e l ong b e f o r e a n i ma l own e r s won ' t b e 3

a b l e t o a f f o r d v e t e r i n a r y me d i c i n e . I t h i n k t h a t h e 4

s a i d t h a t a bou t 15 o r 20 y e a r s a go . So h e wa s s o r t o f 5

a s a g e o r a v i s i on a r y a nd s aw t h i s c om i ng . Bu t I don ' t 6

k now how y ou a v o i d i t . 7

Th e c o s t o f e qu i pme n t , me d i c a l s upp l i e s , d r ug s , 8

g a s o l i n e , y ou n ame i t , t r u c k s , i s go i ng up . And 9

v e t e r i n a r i a n s h a v e t o b e a b l e t o r e t r i e v e t h e c o s t o f 10

t ho s e i n v e s t me n t s a nd r e t r i e v e t h e c o s t o f t h e i r 11

e du c a t i on . And v e t e r i n a r i a n s , t h e mo s t o f t h e 12

v e t e r i n a r i a n s I k now c h a r g e - - we c h a r g e , ou r f e e s a r e 13

r e a l l y sma l l c omp a r e d t o s ome o f t h e b i g , p r i v a t e 14

p r a c t i c e s a r ound t h e c oun t r y . 15

And i t ' s a l l g e og r a ph i c . I me a n , i n T e x a s , i n 16

t h e Da l l a s / F o r t Wo r t h a r e a o f T e x a s y ou c a n c h a r g e 17

wh a t e v e r y ou wa n t . I don ' t t h i n k y ou c a n c h a r g e mu c h 18

i n P l a t t s bu r g , M i s s ou r i , f o r e x amp l e . I t ' s a l l b a s e d 19

on t h e v a l u e o f ho r s e s , t h e g e og r a ph i c l o c a t i on o f t h e 20

v a l u e o f ho r s e s , a nd t h e p e op l e who own t h em a nd wh a t 21

s o r t o f r e s ou r c e s t h e y h a v e . 22

Bu t i t ' s a h a r d t i me f o r t h e e qu i n e i ndu s t r y 23

a nd f o r e qu i n e v e t e r i n a r y me d i c i n e r i gh t now , a nd i t ' s 24

a l l b e c a u s e o f t h e e c onomy . 25

307

I t h i nk we c an a l l ag r e e t ha t you wou l d ne v e r 1 Q .

wan t t o sh i r k on t he t r e a t men t t ha t ou r an i ma l s 2

r e c e i v e . Can we ag r e e on t ha t ? 3

Ye s , we c a n . 4 A .

My que s t i on i s , f r om t he pe r spe c t i v e o f an 5 Q .

equ i ne spe c i a l i s t , i s i t be t t e r i n t he l ong r un f o r an 6

an i ma l t o r e c e i v e pe r haps l e s s t han t he t yp i c a l 7

v e t e r i na r y s t anda r d o f c a r e t han i t wou l d be f o r t hem , 8

pe r haps , t o ha v e t o go w i t hou t c a r e? 9

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ' m go i ng t o r a i s e a r e l e v anc e 10

que s t i on a s t o t he cos t cons i de r a t i ons . I unde r s t and 11

t he po l i c y i mp l i c a t i ons o f M r . Ro l and ' s a r gumen t , bu t 12

how doe s i t r e l a t e t o t he que s t i on o f whe t he r i t ' s 13

cons t i t u t i ona l f o r t he l eg i s l a t u r e t o d r aw t he l i ne 14

whe r e i t i s , wh i ch i s wha t ' s , wha t ' s a t i s sue i n t h i s 15

c a s e , you know . I wou l d l i k e t o he a r an e xp l ana t i on 16

f r om h i m a s t o how he conne c t s t he cos t a r gumen t t o t he 17

cons t i t u t i ona l a r gumen t . 18

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , i t goe s t o r a t i ona l i t y . 19

I f t he s t a t e i s adop t i ng a po l i c y t ha t i nc r e a s e s t he 20

cos t o f v e t e r i na r y c a r e ou t o f t he r e a ch o f many an i ma l 21

owne r s , t he r e ' s some t h i ng t o be s a i d t he r e f o r whe t he r 22

t he po l i c y i s r a t i ona l , and t ha t ' s t he po i n t t ha t we ' r e 23

hop i ng t o ma k e w i t h t h i s que s t i on . 24

MR . FROWNFELTER : The que s t i on ' s no t whe t he r t he 25

308

po l i c y i s r a t i ona l , whe t he r i t ' s t he be s t , whe t he r i t ' s 1

a good po l i c y , t he que s t i on i s whe t he r t he r e ' s any 2

r a t i ona l ba s i s f o r t he po l i c y . I f t he l eg i s l a t u r e 3

choos e s t o d i s r ega r d t he cos t f a c t o r , t ha t m i gh t be 4

some t h i ng t ha t a l o t o f peop l e wou l d f i nd t o be a v e r y 5

bad l eg i s l a t i v e de c i s i on , bu t doe s i t r ende r t he 6

de c i s i on t ha t t he Cou r t ma k e s - - 7

THE COURT : I ' m go i ng t o ov e r r u l e t he ob j e c t . 8

So r r y t o cu t you o f f , M r . F r own f e l t e r , bu t I t h i nk i t 9

cou l d be one o f t he ba s i s t ha t t he l eg i s l a t u r e cou l d 10

f i nd a r a t i ona l ba s i s f o r , so I t h i nk he ha s a r i gh t t o 11

e xp l o r e whe t he r o r no t i t i s t he ba s i s . So I ' l l 12

ov e r r u l e t he ob j e c t i on .13

( BY MR . ROLAND ) I c an ' t r emembe r i f you 14 Q .

answe r ed t he que s t i on o r no t .15

No t y e t . I ' l l l e t y ou gu y s s o r t i t ou t a nd 16 A .

t h e n I ' l l t r y t o a n swe r i t . 17

Do I ne ed t o a s k t he que s t i on aga i n? 18 Q .

Ye s . 19 A .

Onc e aga i n , t a k i ng i n t o a c coun t t ha t we wou l d 20 Q .

a l l l o v e t o p r ov i de ou r an i ma l s w i t h t he h i ghe s t 21

qua l i t y o f s e r v i c e , i f f a c ed w i t h a cho i c e be t we en 22

p r ov i d i ng some t h i ng l e s s t han t he go l d s t anda r d 23

v e t e r i na r y s t anda r d o f c a r e and ha v i ng t o go w i t hou t 24

c a r e be c aus e t he r e ' s no mone y f o r i t , wh i ch do you 25

309

be l i e v e i s be s t f o r t he an i ma l s o f t he owne r s?1

We ma k e t ho s e d e c i s i on s o r h e l p c l i e n t s ma k e 2 A .

t ho s e d e c i s i on s e v e r y d a y , a nd b e c a u s e ma n y o f ou r 3

own e r s a r e on a l i m i t e d budg e t , a nd t h e y h a v e t o s e t 4

p r i o r i t i e s f o r t h ems e l v e s . So we t e l l t h em , i f y ou 5

don ' t do t h i s wh a t t h e c on s e qu e n c e s w i l l b e ; o r i f y ou 6

do t h i s wh a t t h e b e n e f i t s w i l l b e . And I don ' t t h i n k 7

t h a t c a n b e a pp l i e d t o t h e t op i c we ' r e t a l k i ng a bou t o r 8

a n y o t h e r a s p e c t o f me d i c i n e , I t h i n k t ho s e a r e 9

p e r s on a l d e c i s i on s a n own e r h a s t o ma k e . 10

Th a t own e r wa s n ' t f o r c e d t o bu y t h e ho r s e . Th e 11

own e r h a s t h e a n i ma l . Th e y ' r e ob l i g a t e d t o t a k e c a r e 12

o f t h e a n i ma l a s b e s t t h e y c a n , a nd v e t e r i n a r i a n s a r e 13

t h e r e t o h e l p t h em do t h a t . And we don ' t a l wa y s c h a r g e 14

t h e h i gh e s t p r i c e t h a t c a n b e c h a r g e d . We wo r k w i t h 15

c l i e n t s a nd t r y t o do t h e b e s t we c a n f o r t h e ho r s e on 16

t h e budg e t t h a t t h e c l i e n t h a s t h e a b i l i t y t o p a y f o r . 17

So I t h i n k t h a t qu e s t i on do e s n ' t h a v e mu c h me a n i ng t o 18

me . 19

A t ou r depos i t i on we d i s cus s ed t he de f i n i t i on , 20 Q .

t he s t a t e ' s de f i n i t i on o f t he p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y 21

med i c i ne . Do you r emembe r us d i s cus s i ng t ha t ? 22

Ye s . 23 A .

As sum i ng t ha t t he de f i n i t i on s a y s t ha t i t i s 24 Q .

t he p r a c t i c e o f v e t e r i na r y med i c i ne t o change an 25

310

an i ma l ' s phy s i c a l o r men t a l cond i t i on , c an you t h i nk o f 1

any i n t e r a c t i on w i t h an an i ma l t ha t doe s no t f a l l 2

w i t h i n t ha t de f i n i t i on? 3

Ch a ng e t h e i r ph y s i c a l o r me n t a l c ond i t i on . I 4 A .

t h i n k we t a l k e d a bou t g r oom i ng , d i d I me n t i on g r oom i ng? 5

I don ' t c on s i d e r pu t t i ng a p a i r o f s ho e s on a ho r s e 6

c h a ng i ng t h e i r ph y s i c a l c ond i t i on . Th a t ' s , t o me 7

t h a t ' s d e a d t i s s u e . Th e hoo f c a p s u l e i s e s s e n t i a l l y 8

wh e r e t h e f a r r i e r i s wo r k i ng on d e a d t i s s u e , i t ' s j u s t 9

l i k e ou r f i ng e r n a i l s , i t do e s n ' t h a v e p a i n , i t do e s n ' t 10

h a v e s e n s a t i on . I f y ou d i g t oo d e e p l y y ou g e t i n t o 11

s e n s i t i v e t i s s u e s . So , I don ' t k now . I t r i e d t o c ome 12

up w i t h a l i s t b e f o r e a nd I d i dn ' t do v e r y good s o I ' m 13

no t go i ng t o b e a b l e t o h e r e . 14

Ok a y . One o f t he t h i ngs you had men t i oned a t 15 Q .

ou r depos i t i on wa s t ha t e v en you p r e f e r no t t o cu t you r 16

own dog ' s na i l s ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ?17

R i gh t . I don ' t do a n y t h i ng t o my dog . I v a l u e 18 A .

my r e l a t i on s h i p w i t h my w i f e . 19

THE COURT : We won ' t a s k you i f you spank you r 20

ch i l d r en .21

( BY MR . ROLAND) A t ou r depos i t i on you had s a i d 22 Q .

you t hough t t ha t a r e a sonab l e numbe r o f f l oa t i ng j obs 23

i n t he cou r s e o f a da y wou l d be be t we en f ou r and s i x ; 24

i s t ha t s t i l l you r pe r spe c t i v e? 25

311

I me a n , do i ng a c omp l e t e d e n t a l e v a l u a t i on , 1 A .

s e d a t i ng , pu t t i ng a s p e c u l um on , do i ng f l o a t i ng a nd a n y 2

o t h e r t h i ng t h a t ' s n e c e s s a r y , o r j u s t f l o a t i ng?3

Wha t you be l i e v e t o be t he s t anda r d o f c a r e . 4 Q .

Ok a y . Ye a h , s i x i s pu s h i ng i t f o r me , 5 A .

e s p e c i a l l y i f I ' m t a k i ng s t ud e n t s t h r ough i t . Bu t i f I 6

wa s a l on e a nd do i ng i t , I c ou l d p r ob a b l y do f ou r t o 7

s i x . Go t t o r ememb e r I ' m g e t t i ng o l d , bu t a t on e t i me 8

I c ou l d . 9

And you s t i l l ha v e no t r e v i ewed any s t ud i e s 10 Q .

r ega r d i ng how common i t wou l d be f o r a ho r s e t o su f f e r 11

an i n j u r y a s a r e su l t o f f l oa t i ng? 12

No . 13 A .

And you ' r e no t awa r e o f any a c adem i c s t ud i e s 14 Q .

t ha t ha v e be en done compa r i ng i n j u r y r a t e s f r om 15

non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r s t o l i c ens ed v e t e r i na r i ans? 16

No , no t awa r e o f a n y . 17 A .

Th i s ma y ha v e be en b r ough t up i n o t he r 18 Q .

t e s t i mony t oda y bu t I hone s t l y don ' t r emembe r so I ' d 19

j us t l i k e t o ma k e su r e we ge t i t i n t o t he r e co r d . 20

I s i t s a f e t o s a y t ha t peop l e ha v e be en 21

f l oa t i ng ho r s e s ' t e e t h f o r hund r eds o f y e a r s? 22

Ye a h , I wou l d s a y s o , bu t I c a n ' t g i v e y ou a n 23 A .

e x a c t d a t e t h a t i t s t a r t e d . I ' l l b e t i f y ou l oo k e d i n 24

t h e t e x t boo k a t t h e b e g i nn i ng c h a p t e r s o f Do c t o r 25

312

E a s l e y ' s boo k i t m i gh t s a y , bu t I don ' t r e c a l l . 1

And aga i n , I apo l og i z e i f we ' v e cov e r ed t h i s 2 Q .

a l r e ady , bu t you ' r e awa r e o f no r e s e a r ch i nd i c a t i ng 3

t ha t t he qua l i t y o f a f l oa t e r s ' wo r k i s t i ed t o whe t he r 4

o r no t t he y a c c ep t compens a t i on? 5

I gu e s s no t . I ' m un awa r e o f a n y pub l i s h e d 6 A .

r e s u l t s o f t h a t . 7

A r e you awa r e o f any t i me i n t he pa s t hund r ed 8 Q .

y e a r s i n M i s sou r i - - 9

I ' m no t t h a t o l d . 10 A .

Bu t you r e ad , don ' t you? 11 Q .

Ye a h . 12 A .

A t any t i me i n t he pa s t hund r ed y e a r s whe r e 13 Q .

t he r e we r e no non - v e t e r i na r i ans p r ov i d i ng an i ma l 14

husband r y s e r v i c e s? 15

We l l , I me a n , t h a t a c t i v i t y h a s gon e on 16 A .

p r ob a b l y s i n c e a n i ma l s we r e k e p t . Th e qu e s t i on i s 17

wh e t h e r i t ' s t h e b e s t t h i ng f o r t h e a n i ma l a nd wh e t h e r 18

i t ' s w i t h i n t h e l aw . And t h a t ' s f o r y ou a l l t o d e c i d e . 19

Do you ha v e any wa y o f e s t i ma t i ng how many 20 Q .

an i ma l husband r y wo r k e r s t he r e m i gh t be i n t h i s s t a t e? 21

No , I don ' t h a v e a n y i d e a . I t ' s k i nd o f a n 22 A .

und e r g r ound n e t wo r k . Th e y don ' t c ome ou t i n t o t h e 23

op e n , e s p e c i a l l y a r ound v e t e r i n a r y s c hoo l s . 24

Be c aus e t he y r un t he r i s k o f l os i ng t he i r 25 Q .

313

l i v e l i hood i f t he y do ; r i gh t ? 1

Th e y ' v e go t no l i a b i l i t y , a nd no 2 A .

a c c oun t a b i l i t y . 3

On t h e qu e s t i on o f a c c oun t a b i l i t y , do y ou f e e l 4 Q .

l i k e t he y ha v e no a c coun t ab i l i t y t o t he peop l e t ha t 5

t he y s e r v e? 6

I f a non - v e t e r i n a r i a n do e s h a r m t o a n a n i ma l , 7 A .

wh a t ' s t h e own e r go i ng t o do? Th e r e ' s no t h i ng h a ng i ng 8

o v e r t h a t p e r s on ' s h e a d o t h e r t h a n t h e i r l i v e l i hood ; 9

bu t t h e r e ' s a l o t h a ng i ng o v e r a v e t e r i n a r i a n ' s h e a d . 10

Th e r e ' s t h i ng s - - t h e r e ' s s t u f f c a l l e d l i a b i l i t y 11

i n s u r a n c e . Th e r e ' s t h i ng s c a l l e d a l i c e n s e t o 12

p r a c t i c e , wh i c h i s a l o s s o f l i v e l i hood . So a 13

v e t e r i n a r i a n h a s a l o t mo r e t o l o s e i f t h e y do h a r m 14

t h a n s ome bod y who ' s a n un l i c e n s e d p r a c t i t i on e r . 15

Wou l dn ' t an un l i c ens ed p r a c t i t i one r l os e t he i r 16 Q .

l i v e l i hood i n a mo r e d i r e c t wa y be c aus e peop l e wou l d 17

qu i t h i r i ng t hem? 18

We l l t h e y ' l l qu i t h i r i ng a v e t e r i n a r i a n i f t h e y 19 A .

l o s e t h e i r l i c e n s e . Do e s n ' t ma t t e r - - v e t e r i n a r i a n who 20

l o s e s h i s l i c e n s e , h e c a n ' t b e c ome a sma l l a n i ma l 21

p r a c t i t i on e r o r a c a t t l e do c t o r , s o i t ' s a b i g d e a l . 22

And t h e own e r h a s r e c ou r s e a g a i n s t t h a t v e t e r i n a r i a n 23

t h r ough t h e s t a t e bo a r d o r t h r ough t h e c ou r t s , a nd i t ' s 24

mu c h e a s i e r t o go t h r ough t h e s t a t e bo a r d b e c a u s e y ou 25

314

don ' t h a v e a l l t h e l e g a l e x p e n s e s . 1

Do you ha v e a s ens e o f how many v e t e r i na r i ans a 2 Q .

y e a r a c t ua l l y l os e t he i r l i c ens e? 3

I don ' t . 4 A .

MR . ROLAND : I be l i e v e t hos e a r e a l l t he que s t i ons 5

we h a v e .6

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ha v e no c r os s - e x am i n a t i on . 7

THE COURT : No r ed i r e c t ? A l l r i gh t . Thank you , 8

M r . Me s s e r . Doc t o r Me s s e r , t hank you .9

MR . FROWNF ELTER : We l l M r . Bu r t on i s s t i l l h e r e ; we 10

c ou l d h a v e M r . Bu r t on t e s t i f y . O r we c ou l d b r e a k f o r 11

t he da y and . . . 12

THE COURT : I s he a v a i l ab l e t omo r r ow mo r n i ng? 13

MR . FROWNFELTER : He ' s a v a i l ab l e t omo r r ow .14

( O f f t he r e co r d d i s cus s i on . )15

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . I w i l l no t e t ha t t he Cou r t 16

w i l l r e c e s s now a t 6 : 10 p . m . , and Pe t i t i one r ' s c a s e t o 17

r e sume a t n i ne o ' c l oc k a . m . on Sep t embe r 27 , 2011 .18

Thank you . We ' l l be i n r e c e s s . 19

20

( T r i a l ad j ou r ned f o r t he da y a t 6 : 11 p . m . on21

Sep t embe r 26 , 2011 . )22

23

24

25

315

( T r i a l r e sumed a t 9 : 05 a . m . on Sep t embe r 27 , 2011 . )1

2

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t , we ' l l aga i n t a k e up t he 3

ma t t e r o f M i s sou r i Ve t Med i c a l Boa r d v e r sus B r ook e G r a y 4

and B&B Equ i ne Den t i s t r y .5

M r . F r own f e l t e r , a r e you p r epa r ed t o p r oc e ed aga i n 6

t h i s mo r n i ng? 7

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ye s , we a r e , You r Hono r .8

THE COURT : M r . Ro l and , a r e you p r epa r ed t o 9

p r oc e ed? 10


THE COURT : A l l r i gh t , t hank you . You a l l ma y be 12

s e a t ed . You ma y p r oc e ed , M r . F r own f e l t e r . 13

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ' d l i k e t o c a l l W i l l i am Bu r t on .14

15

W I LL I AM BURTON , du l y swo r n by t he C i r cu i t C l e r k , 16

Mo l l y L i v i ngs t on . 17


19



M r . Bu r t on , wou l d you s t a t e you r name and 22 Q .

add r e s s , p l e a s e . 23

My n ame i s W i l l i am , c ommon s p e l l i ng , R . Bu r t on , 24 A .

B - u - r - t - o - n . I l i v e a t 2547 O r c h a r d , O - r - c - h - a - r - d 25

316

L a n e , J e f f e r s on C i t y , M i s s ou r i .1


My o c c up a t i on i s I op e r a t e a bu s i n e s s t o 3 A .

c ondu c t emp l o yme n t a nd s e c u r i t y c l e a r a n c e b a c k g r ound 4

i n v e s t i g a t i on s f o r t h e FB I , a nd I h a v e a c on t r a c t w i t h 5

t h e M i s s ou r i Ve t e r i n a r y Me d i c a l Bo a r d . 6

And wha t i s t he na t u r e o f t he s e r v i c e s t ha t you 7 Q .

p r ov i de t o t he Ve t e r i na r y Med i c a l Boa r d? 8

I c ondu c t i n v e s t i g a t i on s a t t h e i r r e qu e s t . 9 A .

How doe s t he Boa r d engage you o r ge t you 10 Q .

i nvo l v ed i n an i nv e s t i ga t i on? 11

Th e y s e nd me a , wh a t I c a l l a r e f e r r a l l e t t e r , 12 A .

g i v i ng me s ome , t h e i n f o r ma t i on a bou t wh a t t h e y wa n t me 13

t o t r y t o f i nd ou t . 14

And ha v e you be en i nvo l v ed i n an i nv e s t i ga t i on , 15 Q .

t he comp l a i n t r ega r d i ng B r ook e G r a y? 16

I h a v e . 17 A .

And how d i d you be come i nvo l v ed i n t ha t ? 18 Q .

I r e c e i v e d a r e f e r r a l d a t e d F e b r u a r y 9 , 2010 . 19 A .

And wha t sub j e c t ma t t e r d i d t ha t r e f e r r a l 20 Q .

r e l a t e t o?21

I t r e l a t e d t o a c omp l a i n t t h a t h a d b e e n f i l e d 22 A .

w i t h t h e Ve t e r i n a r y Bo a r d t h a t B r oo k e G r a y wa s po s s i b l y 23

p r o v i d i ng e qu i n e d e n t a l s e r v i c e s . 24

And wa s t h i s ba s ed on a comp l a i n t by Doc t o r 25 Q .

317

Da v i d Le i gh r ? 1


When you i nv e s t i ga t e a c a s e f o r t he Ve t e r i na r y 3 Q .

Boa r d , how do you documen t t he f i nd i ngs o f you r 4

i nv e s t i ga t i on? 5

I p r e p a r e t y p e d i n v e s t i g a t i v e r e po r t s a nd 6 A .

s ubm i t t ho s e t o t h e Bo a r d . 7

And do you ha v e documen t a t i on t ha t you i nc l ude 8 Q .

w i t h t hos e? 9

Ye s . 10 A .

When you r e c e i v ed t he r e f e r r a l r ega r d i ng B r ook e 11 Q .

G r a y , wha t i n i t i a l i n v e s t i ga t i v e s t eps d i d you t a k e? 12

F i r s t t h i ng I d i d wa s c h e c k t h r ough t h e 13 A .

M i s s ou r i Se c r e t a r y o f S t a t e c o r po r a t i on s ' r e c o r d s t o 14

s e e i f I c ou l d f i nd a n y i n f o r ma t i on i d e n t i f i a b l e w i t h 15

B r oo k e G r a y . And t h e n I a l s o c h e c k e d t h e S t a t e Cou r t s 16

Adm i n i s t r a t o r ' s we b s i t e , Ca s e . n e t t o s e e i f I c ou l d 17

f i nd a n y t h i ng t h e r e i d e n t i f i a b l e w i t h B r oo k e G r a y . 18


P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 37 . Do you r e cogn i z e t hos e 20

documen t s? 21

Ye s , I do . Th e s e a r e p r i n t ou t s f r om t h e 22 A .

Se c r e t a r y o f S t a t e ' s we b s i t e . I t ' s a r e g i s t r a t i on o f a 23

f i c t i t i ou s n ame i d e n t i f y i ng B&B Equ i n e De n t i s t r y , 6227 24

Sou t h e a s t Pe r r e n , P - e - r - r - e - n Ro a d , Ho l t , M i s s ou r i . 25

318

And i t i d e n t i f i e d t h e own e r a s B r oo k e Re n e e G r a y a t 1

t h a t s ame a dd r e s s . 2

A l l r i gh t . And wha t e l s e doe s t ha t , do t hos e 3 Q .

documen t s i nd i c a t e? 4

Th e r e i s a t t a c h e d t o t h i s , a no t i c e o f 5 A .

e x p i r a t i on o f a F i c t i t i ou s Name Re g i s t r a t i on f o r B&B 6

Equ i n e De n t i s t r y s t a t i ng t h a t t h a t r e g i s t r a t i on h a d 7

e x p i r e d on Oc t ob e r 17 , 2009 . Th e r e i s a Re g i s t r a t i on 8

o f F i c t i t i ou s Name f o r B&B Equ i n e De n t i s t r y , 6195 9

Sou t h e a s t Oa k r i dg e L a n e , Ho l t , M i s s ou r i , s how i ng t h e 10

own e r a s B r oo k e Ne ub a u e r , N - e - u - b - a - u - e - r a t t h a t s ame 11

a dd r e s s . 12

Wh a t ' s t h e d a t e on t h a t ? 13 Q .

Th i s i s d a t e d a nd f i l e d w i t h t h e Se c r e t a r y o f 14 A .

S t a t e on Ma y 21 , 2004 . And t h e l a s t p a g e h e r e - - 15

Ye s , wha t ' s t ha t ? 16 Q .

- - i s a r ou t i n e - - I t h i n k t h a t go t m i s a t t a c h e d 17 A .

t h e r e . 18

Ok a y . So a r e t he s e t he documen t s t ha t you 19 Q .

ob t a i ned f r om t he Se c r e t a r y o f S t a t e ' s o f f i c e? 20

Ye s , t h e y a r e . 21 A .

I ' d l i k e t o o f f e r wha t I ' v e ma r k ed a s 22 Q .

P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 37 i n t o e v i denc e .23


e v i denc e . ) 25

319


THE COURT : P l a i n t i f f ' s 37 w i l l b e adm i t t ed .2


e v i denc e . )4

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) Now d i d you conduc t any 5 Q .

i n t e r v i ews i n t he i nv e s t i ga t i on o f t h i s comp l a i n t ? 6

I d i d . 7 A .

Do you r e c a l l wha t peop l e you i n t e r v i ewed?8 Q .

I do . 9 A .

Can you t e l l us some o f t he , a s many peop l e - -10 Q .

I c a n . I s t a r t e d my i n v e s t i g a t i on on Ma r c h 12 , 11 A .

2010 , a nd my f i r s t i n t e r v i ew wa s w i t h Do c t o r Da v i d 12

L e i gh r . 13

And wha t o t he r pe r sons d i d you i n t e r v i ew? 14 Q .

I i n t e r v i ewe d Ra c h e l a nd M i c h a e l , I t h i n k i t ' s 15 A .

M i c h a e l He l ma n , H - e - l - m - a - n . I i n t e r v i ewe d B r u c e a nd 16

Ca r o l y n Sm i t h . Do c t o r M i t t s , M - i - t - t - s , a nd I c a n ' t 17

r e c a l l h i s f i r s t n ame . 18

You i n t e r v i ewed qu i t e a f ew peop l e? 19 Q .

I d i d . 20 A .

D i d you i n t e r v i ew B r ook e G r a y? 21 Q .

I d i d no t . 22 A .

D i d you a t t emp t t o i n t e r v i ew B r ook e G r a y? 23 Q .

I d i d . 24 A .

And wha t r e spons e t o t hos e a t t emp t s d i d you 25 Q .

320

r e c e i v e? 1

MR . ROLAND : Ob j e c t i on , You r Hono r , c a l l s f o r a 2


MR . FROWNFELTER : We l l , I t h i nk t ha t he c an , he c an 4

de s c r i be t he a t t emp t s t ha t he made and t he r e spons e he 5

r e c e i v ed i n t he a t t emp t s . I f he spok e t o Ms . G r a y , 6

t ha t wou l d be a t h i r d pa r t y adm i s s i on , i f he d i dn ' t 7

r e c e i v e a r e spons e t ha t wou l d no t be he a r s a y .8

THE COURT : I t ' s no t he a r - - I don ' t be l i e v e unde r 9

t he c i r cums t anc e s i f you ' r e j us t - - i f i t ge t s i n t o 10

s e r v i ng t he t r u t h o f wha t she ' s a s s e r t ed o r s t a t ed , 11

t ha t ' s one t h i ng , bu t I ' l l ov e r r u l e t he ob j e c t i on . 12

You ma y p r oc e ed .13

THE W I TNESS : Ye s , s i r . 14

I we n t t o h e r r e s i d e n c e on Ma r c h t h e 12 t h i n a n 15 A .

e f f o r t t o c on t a c t h e r a nd f ound no on e t o b e a t home . 16

I ma d e a t e l e phon e c a l l , t h e n , t o a phon e numb e r t h a t I 17

h a d f o r h e r a nd l e f t a me s s a g e on t h e phon e . 18

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) Can you de s c r i be t he 19 Q .

na t u r e o f t he me s s age you l e f t on t he phone numbe r you 20

we r e g i v en? 21

Ye s . I s a i d t h a t - - I g a v e my n ame , a nd I s a i d 22 A .

t h a t I h a d s ome ho r s e s a nd I wa n t e d t o s e e i f s h e c ou l d 23

f l o a t t h e t e e t h on t ho s e ho r s e s .24

A l l r i gh t , d i d you r e c e i v e any r e spons e t o you r 25 Q .

321

t e l ephone c a l l ? 1

I d i d . As I d r o v e awa y f r om h e r hou s e I l o s t 2 A .

c e l l phon e r e c e p t i on a nd s o I c ou l dn ' t c ommun i c a t e a n y 3

f u r t h e r , bu t t h e n s ome t i me l a t e r , a nd I c a n ' t r ememb e r 4

e x a c t l y how l ong , w i t h i n 5 o r 10 o r 15 m i nu t e s , I 5

r e c e i v e d a c a l l f r om t h e s ame numb e r t h a t I h a d c a l l e d 6

bu t I d i dn ' t a n swe r t h e phon e , a nd I we n t t o a me s s a g e 7

l a t e r a nd I l i s t e n e d t o t h e me s s a g e . 8

And wha t d i d t he me s s age s a y? 9 Q .

Sh e s a i d , Th i s i s B r oo k e c a l l i ng b a c k , t h i s i s 10 A .

B r oo k e G r a y . You mu s t h a v e b e e n go i ng down my d r i v ewa y 11

b e c a u s e t h a t ' s wh e r e we a l wa y s l o s e c e l l phon e 12

r e c e p t i on . I d i dn ' t g e t a c h a n c e t o t a l k t o y ou a bou t 13

wh a t k i nd o f ho r s e s y ou h a d . I c a n - - mo s t o f t h e t i me 14

I c ome t o y ou r p l a c e . G i v e me a c a l l b a c k a nd we c a n 15

t a l k abou t i t . 16

I s t ha t an e x a c t quo t e o r a pa r aph r a s e? 17 Q .

Th a t ' s a p a r a ph r a s e . I h a v e a n e x a c t quo t e 18 A .

b e c a u s e I w r o t e t h e no t e s f r om t h e me s s a g e on my phon e . 19

I don ' t h a v e t h e me s s a g e i n my phon e a n y l ong e r , bu t I 20

w r o t e down v e r b a t i m wh a t s h e s a i d i n t h a t me s s a g e . And 21

t h a t ' s wh a t I pu t i n my r e po r t wa s v e r b a t i m wh a t I 22

r e c e i v e d i n t h e me s s a g e . 23

I ' m go i ng t o show you wha t I ha v e ma r k ed a s 24 Q .

P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 38 ; do you r e cogn i z e t ha t 25

322

documen t ? 1

I do . 2 A .

And wha t i s t ha t ? 3 Q .

Th i s i s a p a g e ou t o f on e o f my r e po r t s I 4 A .

s ubm i t t e d t o t h e Ve t e r i n a r y Bo a r d . 5

And wha t - - i s t he quo t e t ha t you we r e 6 Q .

r e f e r r i ng t o s e t f o r t h i n t ha t ? 7

I t i s . 8 A .

Wou l d you r e ad t he quo t a t i on a s you r epo r t ed a t 9 Q .

t he t i me .10

I w i l l .11 A .

MR . ROLAND : Ob j e c t i on , You r Hono r . Th i s i s 12

he a r s a y w i t h i n he a r s a y . I t ' s a l r e ady be en e s t ab l i shed 13

by t e s t i mony t ha t t he r e wa s a c a l l made and t he gene r a l 14

na t u r e o f t he c a l l ha s be en e s t ab l i shed . The on l y 15

pos s i b l e r e a son f o r adm i t t i ng t h i s e v i denc e i s t o p r ov e 16

t he t r u t h o f wha t i s a s s e r t ed . 17

MR . FROWNFELTER : We ' v e had t e s t i mony , wh i ch wa s 18

no t ob j e c t ed , t ha t he r e c e i v ed a t e l ephone c a l l ba c k 19

f r om an i nd i v i dua l i den t i f y i ng he r s e l f a s B r ook e G r a y . 20

He r e l a t ed t he pa r aph r a s e o f t ha t w i t hou t ob j e c t i on , 21

and wha t I ' m a s k i ng h i m now i s , upon r e v i ew o f h i s 22

a c t ua l r epo r t o f t he ma t t e r t o r e ad t he e x a c t quo t e 23

t ha t he wa s pa r aph r a s i ng . 24

I t h i nk t ha t t h i s i s adm i s s i b l e on e i t he r o f t wo 25

323

ba s e s . F i r s t o f a l l , i f i t ' s c r ed i b l e t ha t i t ' s a 1

c a l l f r om B r ook e G r a y , t hen i t wou l d be a pa r t y 2

adm i s s i on . And s e cond , I be l i e v e t ha t he c an - - I c an 3

a s k h i m que s t i ons t o e s t ab l i sh t ha t i t i s a bus i ne s s 4

r e co r d he made o f h i s conv e r s a t i on , and I t h i nk he c an 5

a l so us e i t t o r e f r e sh h i s r e co l l e c t i on . 6


( BY MR . FROWNFELTER) Ok a y , wou l d you r e ad t he 8 Q .

quo t a t i on a s s e t f o r t h i n t he r epo r t . 9

Ye s , I h a v e , quo t e , " He y , B i l l , t h i s i s B r oo k e 10 A .

G r a y . We l o s t c onn e c t i on . I ' m a s s um i ng y ou p r ob a b l y 11

we n t down my d r i v ewa y a nd t h a t ' s wh e r e we a l wa y s l o s e 12

s e r v i c e . I f y ou wa n t t o g i v e me a s hou t b a c k s ome t i me 13

we c a n c h a t a bou t t h e d e n t i s t r y o r wh a t e v e r y ou wa n t e d 14

t o k now ; wh a t I do a nd how I do i t . Wh a t I no r ma l l y do 15

i s c ome t o y ou r p l a c e . I n e v e r go t t o a s k wh a t k i nd o f 16

ho r s e s y ou h a d o r y ou r b a c k g r ound . G i v e me a s hou t 17

b a c k s ome t i me . Th a n k s a g a i n . " End o f quo t e . 18

I s t h i s a , a r e co r d t ha t you made 19 Q .

con t empo r aneous l y w i t h t ha t con t a c t ? 20

Ye s , s i r . W i t h i n t h r e e o r f ou r m i nu t e s a f t e r I 21 A .

go t t h e me s s a g e I w r o t e t h i s down . 22

And i s i t t he o r d i na r y cou r s e o f bus i ne s s i n 23 Q .

you r i nv e s t i ga t i ons t o ma k e con t empo r aneous r e co r ds o f 24

you r con t a c t s i n t h i s wa y? 25

324

Ye s . 1 A .

And do you k e ep and ma i n t a i n t hos e r e co r ds? 2 Q .

Ye s .3 A .

And i s t h i s a t r ue and a c cu r a t e r e co r d o f t he 4 Q .

no t e s o f t he conv e r s a t i on you made a t t he t i me? 5

Ye s .6 A .

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ' d l i k e t o o f f e r i n t o e v i denc e 7

P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 38 .8


e v i denc e . ) 10

MR . ROLAND : We w i l l con t i nue ou r ob j e c t i on t o t h i s 11

p i e c e o f e v i denc e , j us t t o p r e s e r v e i t f o r t he r e co r d . 12

THE COURT : I t l ook s l i k e t he r e ' s mo r e . Can I s e e? 13

Le t me t a k e a l ook a t i t . I t l ook s l i k e t he r e ' s mo r e 14

t o i t t han . . . 15

MR . FROWNFELTER : The r e i s i n f o r ma t i on on t he r e 16

wh i ch we ' r e no t r e l y i ng on . A l l we a r e r e l y i ng on t h i s 17

f o r i s t he a c coun t o f t he s t a t emen t t ha t wa s r e co r ded . 18

Tha t i s a pa r t y adm i s s i on . 19

We ha v e an en t i r e r epo r t , wh i ch I ' m su r e M r . Ro l and 20

wou l d ob j e c t t o on t he ba s i s t ha t i t con t a i ns ma s s i v e 21

amoun t s o f he a r s a y . I t h i nk t he be s t ba l anc e i s me r e l y 22

t o o f f e r t he one page o f t he r epo r t upon wh i ch t he 23

e x a c t conv e r s a t i on we ' r e subm i t t i ng i s r epo r t ed . 24

THE COURT : M r . Ro l and , any o t he r a r gumen t ? 25

325

MR . ROLAND : We do ob j e c t t ha t t he documen t t ha t ' s 1

be en o f f e r ed con t a i ns he a r s a y ; t ha t i t con t a i ns 2

add i t i ona l i n f o r ma t i on t ha t cou l d be p r e j ud i c i a l t o t he 3

c a s e , t o t he de f endan t ' s c a s e w i t hou t be i ng p r oba t i v e 4

o f t he ma t t e r a s s e r t ed . And I be l i e v e t ha t i t ' s 5

i mp r ope r t o adm i t a pa r t i a l documen t w i t hou t , w i t hou t 6

o f f e r i ng t he documen t a s a who l e un l e s s i t ' s done by 7

t he ag r e emen t o f pa r t i e s . We , o f cou r s e , wou l d no t 8

ag r e e t o t he en t i r e documen t bu t we a l so don ' t ag r e e t o 9

t he page t ha t ha s be en o f f e r ed i n e v i denc e t oda y . 10

THE COURT : I ' l l ov e r r u l e t he ob j e c t i on . The s ame 11

w i l l be adm i t t ed .12


e v i denc e . ) 14

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) D i d you ha v e any f u r t he r 15 Q .

con t a c t s w i t h Ms . G r a y? 16

I t r i e d s e v e r a l t i me s t o c a l l h e r on t h e 17 A .

t e l e phon e a nd l e f t me s s a g e s bu t s h e n e v e r r e s pond e d t o 18

a n y o f t ho s e phon e c a l l s . 19

D i d you e v e r me e t w i t h he r i n pe r son? 20 Q .

I d i d no t . 21 A .

D i d you e v e r ha v e any o t he r f o r m o f e i t he r 22 Q .

w r i t t en o r o r a l commun i c a t i on w i t h he r ? 23

No . On l y i n my r e g a r d I we n t t o h e r home t wo 24 A .

a dd i t i on a l t i me s a nd l e f t my bu s i n e s s c a r d a t t h e hou s e 25

326

a s k i ng t h a t s h e c a l l bu t I go t no r e s pon s e f r om t h a t . 1

A r e t he r e any o t he r s t eps t ha t - - ok a y . 2 Q .

So ba s ed on you r con t a c t w i t h Ms . G r a y and 3

o t he r pe r sons , you p r epa r ed and subm i t t ed t o t he Boa r d 4

an i nv e s t i ga t i v e r epo r t ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 5

I d i d . 6 A .

And t he page t ha t we j us t adm i t t ed i s i n 7 Q .

e v i denc e a s a page f r om t ha t r epo r t ? 8


A f t e r you subm i t t ed t ha t r epo r t , d i d you t a k e 10 Q .

any o t he r s t eps be f o r e t he Boa r d ' s a c t i on i n 11

Ap r i l 2010? 12

We l l I c ondu c t e d o t h e r i n t e r v i ews on d i f f e r e n t 13 A .

d a t e s . I d i d s ome wo r k on Ma r c h t h e 23 r d , 2010 , 14

i n t e r v i ewe d s ome a dd i t i on a l p e op l e . I d i d a n i n t e r v i ew 15

on Ap r i l t h e 5 t h , 2010 a nd s ubm i t t e d a r e po r t r e g a r d i ng 16

t h a t . I ob t a i n e d s ome e v i d e n c e t h r ough s ome o f t ho s e 17

i n t e r v i ews . 18

Spe c i f i c a l l y d i d you spe a k t o an i nd i v i dua l 19 Q .

named M i che l l e Wy co f f ?20

I d i d . 21 A .

And wha t wa s t he sub j e c t ma t t e r o f you r 22 Q .

conv e r s a t i on w i t h Ms . Wy co f f , w i t hou t r e l a t i ng t he , 23

wha t she s a i d o r t he con t en t o f i t ? 24

Th e s ub s t a n c e wa s t o ob t a i n s ome e v i d e n c e f r om 25 A .

327

h e r . 1

And wha t e v i denc e wa s i t t ha t she had t o g i v e 2 Q .

t o y ou? 3

Sh e h a d a qu a n t i t y o f n e e d l e s a nd s y r i ng e s . 4 A .

I n wha t f o r m d i d she g i v e - - 5 Q .

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , I apo l og i z e bu t I be l i e v e 6

Ms . Wy co f f i s i n t he r oom , and I wou l d l i k e t o t a k e 7

t h i s oppo r t un i t y t o a s k t ha t she be r emov ed f r om t he 8

cou r t r oom , be c aus e I be l i e v e she ' s go i ng t o be a s k ed t o 9

i den t i f y t he e v i denc e t ha t i s go i ng t o be shown i n 10

cou r t and I wou l d l i k e f o r he r no t t o s e e t ha t e v i denc e 11

be f o r e she ' s a s k ed t o i den t i f y i t .12

MR . FROWNFELTER : One s e cond , You r Hono r . 13

THE COURT : M r . F r own f e l t e r , I don ' t t h i nk anybody 14

i nvok ed t he r u l e r ega r d i ng w i t ne s s e s i n t h i s c a s e , so I 15

don ' t t h i nk I ha v e any ob l i ga t i on t o a s k he r t o be 16

r emov ed . Tha t ha s t o be done p r i o r t o t he e v i denc e 17

be i ng commenc ed so I ' m go i ng t o ov e r r u l e t ha t . You ma y 18

p r oc e ed .19

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ye s , t ha t wou l d be unde r Loc a l 20

Ru l e 55 . Thank you .21

THE COURT : Wha t doe s t ha t l oc a l r u l e s a y , by t he 22

wa y? I me an , t ha t ' s my unde r s t and i ng . 23

MR . TAYLOR : Ye ah , i t s a y s you c an ' t i nvok e t he 24

r u l e un t i l - - you c an ' t i nvok e i t un l e s s you do i t 25

328

be f o r e t he c a s e beg i ns . 1

THE COURT : Tha t ' s - - a l l r i gh t , you ma y p r oc e ed , 2

M r . F r own f e l t e r .3

MR . FROWNFELTER : " W i t ne s s o t he r t han pa r t i e s sha l l 4

be e x c l uded f r om t he cou r t r oom upon mo t i on o f a pa r t y . 5

A mo t i on t o e x c l ude w i t ne s s e s f r om t he cou r t r oom mus t 6

be made be f o r e any oppos i ng s t a t emen t i s made and 7

be f o r e any e v i denc e i s he a r d . 8


MR . FROWNFELTER : Ru l e 55 . 10

THE COURT : You ma y p r oc e ed .11

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) A l l r i gh t . I f I r e c a l l 12 Q .

co r r e c t l y whe r e we we r e , you me t w i t h Ms . Wy co f f and 13

she had i nd i c a t ed she had e v i denc e t o p r ov i de t o you ; 14


Th a t ' s c o r r e c t . 16 A .

Wa s t h i s phy s i c a l e v i denc e? 17 Q .

Ye s , i t wa s . 18 A .

And wha t phy s i c a l e v i denc e d i d she show t o you? 19 Q .

As I me n t i on e d , s h e g a v e me a qu a n t i t y o f 20 A .

ne ed l e s and s y r i nge s . 21

And wha t e l s e? 22 Q .

Th a t ' s i t . 23 A .

I n wha t f o r m d i d she g i v e t h i s t o you? 24 Q .

I n wh a t f o r m? 25 A .

329

Ye s . 1 Q .

Sh e h a nd e d me - - I gu e s s wh a t y ou me a n b y f o r m 2 A .

i s t h e y we r e i n a , t h e y we r e i n z i p - l o c k b a g s ; i s t h a t 3

wh a t y ou me a n? Th e y we r e n e e d l e s a nd s y r i ng e s , a nd s h e 4

h a d t h em i n z i p - l o c k b a g s . 5

D i d she g i v e you any o t he r e v i denc e? 6 Q .

No . 7 A .

D i d you k e ep t he e v i denc e t ha t she ga v e you o r 8 Q .

d i d you t a k e pos s e s s i on o f t he e v i denc e - - 9

I d i d . 10 A .

- - she ga v e you? And wha t k i nd o f con t a i ne r 11 Q .

wa s t ha t e v i denc e i n? 12

I n t h i s b r own c a r dbo a r d t ub e ( w i t n e s s 13 A .

i nd i c a t i ng ) . 14

Ha s t ha t t ube be en i n you r pos s e s s i on s i nc e 15 Q .

t ha t da t e? 16

I t h a s . 17 A .

And wha t wa s t he da t e she ga v e t ha t t o you? 18 Q .

I i n t e r v i ewe d h e r on Ap r i l 5 , 2010 , a nd I ' v e 19 A .

h a d i t i n my po s s e s s i on s i n c e t h e n . 20

Ha v e you opened t he con t a i ne r t o s e e wha t ' s i n 21 Q .

i t ? 22

Ye s , s i r . I l oo k e d a t i t a t t h e t i me s h e g a v e 23 A .

i t t o me . 24

Wou l d you open i t a t t h i s po i n t and - - 25 Q .

330

Ce r t a i n l y . 1 A .

- - i nd i c a t e wha t t he con t en t s a r e . 2 Q .

I s e e n wh e r e y ou we r e h e a d e d now a nd I f o r go t . 3 A .

Th e t ub e i s emp t y . Tho s e a r e t h e i t ems t h a t s h e g a v e 4

me . I n a dd i t i on t o t h e n e e d l e s a nd t h e s y r i ng e s , t h e r e 5

wa s a n emp t y v i a l o f x y l a z i n e s o l u t i on . I ' d f o r go t t e n 6

t h a t t i l l I op e n e d t h e t ub e . 7

App r ox i ma t e l y how many s y r i nge s a r e t he r e i n 8 Q .

t ha t bag? 9

1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , l oo k s l i k e 10 . And 10 A .

I p r e s ume t h e s e a r e wh a t go e s o v e r t h e e nd o f t h i s wh e n 11

i t ' s unu s e d ( w i t n e s s i nd i c a t i ng ) . 12

Ye s , I be l i e v e t e chn i c a l l y t he ne ed l e s a r e t he 13 Q .

one s i n t he bag and t he p l a s t i c ob j e c t s a r e s y r i nge s ; 14

i s t h a t - - 15

We l l , I b e l i e v e t h e n e e d l e i s und e r n e a t h t h e 16 A .

l i t t l e p i n k p r o t e c t i v e t h i ng ; t h i s i s t h e s y r i ng e p a r t .17

I s e e . 18 Q .

Th a t ' s my und e r s t a nd i ng . 19 A .

We r e t he , we r e t he ob j e c t s i n t he z i p - l oc k bags 20 Q .

wh e n s h e g a v e t h em t o y ou? 21

Ye s . 22 A .

Ha v e t he y be en r emov ed f r om t he bag s i nc e? 23 Q .

I ma y h a v e t a k e n t h i s v i a l ou t s o t h a t I c ou l d 24 A .

r e a d t h e l a b e l mo r e c l e a r l y , bu t I h a v e n ' t r emo v e d a n y 25

331

o f t h e n e e d l e s o r s y r i ng e s f r om t h a t b a g . 1

Wou l d you t a k e i t ou t now and r e ad t he l abe l on 2 Q .

t he v i a l , p l e a s e? 3


MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , we ob j e c t t ha t i t ' s 5

he a r s a y . The l abe l on t he v i a l i s go i ng t o be r e ad f o r 6

t he pu r pos e o f p r ov i ng wha t wa s i n t he v i a l . The r e ' s 7

be en no t e s t i ng done on t h i s ob j e c t and so t he l abe l on 8

t he v i a l i s i t s e l f he a r s a y . 9

MR . FROWNFELTER : We ha v e a med i c a t i on bo t t l e . The 10

t e s t i mony w i l l e s t ab l i sh t he wa y i n wh i ch t ha t wa s 11

us ed , and we a r e - - I ' m a s k i ng h i m t o r e ad i t i n o r de r 12

t o , me r e l y t o i den t i f y wha t t he l abe l o f t he bo t t l e 13

s a y s . I t ' s go i ng t o be up t o t he Cou r t t o de t e r m i ne 14

t he c r ed i b i l i t y o f t he e v i denc e i n t e r ms o f , o f whe t he r 15

i t ' s a r e a sonab l e i n f e r enc e t ha t t he bo t t l e con t a i n 16

wh a t i t s a y s . 17

THE COURT : Ov e r r u l ed . You ma y p r oc e ed .18

Th e l a b e l s a y s t h i s i s a Xy l a z i n e , a nd t h a t ' s 19 A .

X - y - l - a - z - i - n - e s t e r i l e s o l u t i on , 100 MG p e r m i l l i l i t e r 20

s l a s h 50 ML . And I c a n ' t t e l l y ou wh a t a l l t h a t me a n s . 21

And i t ' s , t h e t r a d e n ame i s T r a nqu i v e d , 22

T - r - a - n - q - u - i - v - e - d i n j e c t i on , a nd i t ' s s o l d b y Ve d c o , 23

V - e - d - c - o , d i s t r i bu t e d - - e x c u s e me .24

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) Go ahe ad .25 Q .

332

D i s t r i bu t e d b y Ve d c o , I n c . , S t . J o s e ph , 1 A .

M i s sou r i . 2

A r e t he r e any no t i c e s p r i n t ed on t he bo t t l e? 3 Q .

I t h a s do s a g e a nd a dm i n i s t r a t i on i n f o r ma t i on . 4 A .

Wou l d y ou l i k e f o r me t o r e a d t h a t ?5

No . A r e t he r e any no t i c e s conc e r n i ng t he us e 6 Q .

o f t he p r oduc t ? 7

I t s a y s , " Wa r n i ng , t h i s d r ug s hou l d no t b e 8 A .

a dm i n i s t e r e d t o dome s t i c f ood - p r odu c i ng a n i ma l s no r f o r 9

u s e i n ho r s e s i n t e nd e d f o r f ood . " " Av o i d a c c i d e n t a l 10

a dm i n i s t r a t i on t o huma n s . " " Ca u t i on , f e d e r a l l aw 11

r e s t r i c t s t h i s d r ug t o u s e b y o r on t h e o r d e r o f a 12

l i c e n s e d v e t e r i n a r i a n . " And t h e n i t h a s i n f o r ma t i on 13

a bou t wh a t t h e c ompo s i t i on o f t h e s o l u t i on i s . Th e n i t 14

h a s a l o t numb e r a nd a n e x p i r a t i on d a t e . 15

I t h i nk t ha t t ha t w i l l do f o r us . Wou l d you 16 Q .

pu t t he bo t t l e ba c k i n t he z i p - l oc k bag f r om wh i ch i t 17

c ame , p l e a s e . 18


I ' m l abe l l i ng t ha t Exh i b i t 39 . I ' m l abe l l i ng 20 Q .

t he z i p - l oc k bag w i t h t he s y r i nge s Exh i b i t 40 . 21

THE COURT : Wha t d i d you s a y 39 wa s? 22

MR . FROWNFELTER : Tha t i s t he z i p - l oc k bag 23

con t a i n i ng t he bo t t l e . 24


333

MR . FROWNFELTER : And I am l abe l l i ng t he t ube i n 1

wh i ch t he s e i t ems we r e p l a c ed Exh i b i t 41 .2

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) Wha t no t a t i ons a r e t he r e 3 Q .

on t ha t t ube , M r . Bu r t on? 4

Th e r e i s a w r i t t e n no t a t i on t h a t s a y s , 5 A .

" Re c o v e r e d 6 - 10 - 2009 . " Th e n b e l ow t h a t a r e t h e 6

i n i t i a l s MHW w i t h t h e d a t e 4 - 5 - 2010 . 7

D i d you w r i t e t ha t no t a t i on? 8 Q .

I d i d no t w r i t e e i t h e r o f t ho s e f i r s t t wo t h a t 9 A .

I r e a d . 10

Ok a y . 11 Q .

And t h e n t h e t h i r d no t a t i on i s my i n i t i a l s , WRB 12 A .

a nd t h e d a t e 4 - 5 - 10 .13

Ha v e t hos e i t ems be en i n you r pos s e s s i on , i n 14 Q .

anyone ' s pos s e s s i on o t he r t han you r s s i nc e Ap r i l 5 t h , 15

2010? 16

No . 17 A .

F r om t he t i me M i che l l e Wy co f f ga v e i t t o you 18 Q .

un t i l t h i s momen t ? 19

Th a t ' s c o r r e c t . 20 A .

Now we ' v e had t e s t i mony i nd i c a t i ng t ha t t he 21 Q .

Boa r d vo t ed t o r e f e r t h i s ma t t e r f o r l i t i g a t i on on 22

Ap r i l 7 t h , 2010 . D i d you do any f u r t he r i nv e s t i ga t i on 23

a f t e r t he Boa r d r e f e r r a l ?24

I d i d . We a t t emp t e d t o d e t e r m i n e wh e r e t h i s 25 A .

334

bo t t l e c ame f r om , who h a d - - we k n ew who ma nu f a c t u r e d 1

i t a nd we we n t t o t h e ma nu f a c t u r e r t o t r y t o d e t e r m i n e 2

who t h e y h a d s o l d i t t o , a nd t h e n t r y t o go t o t h em t o 3

d e t e r m i n e wh e r e i t h a d b e e n s o l d a nd who t h e e nd u s e r 4

m i gh t h a v e b e e n . 5

We r e you suc c e s s f u l i n de t e r m i n i ng whe r e i t had 6 Q .

be en so l d? 7

No . 8 A .

D i d you ha v e any con t a c t w i t h a , any k i nd o f a 9 Q .

v e t e r i na r y supp l y v endo r r ega r d i ng t h i s? 10

I d i d . 11 A .

And wha t supp l y v endo r d i d you con t a c t ? 12 Q .

We c on t a c t e d t h e Ch a r i t on , t h a t ' s 13 A .

C - h - a - r - i - t - o - n Ve t e r i n a r y Supp l y a t Hun t s v i l l e , 14

M i s s ou r i . 15

And wha t r eque s t d i d you ma k e o f Cha r i t on 16 Q .

Ve t e r i na r y Supp l y? 17

Th e y we r e g i v e n a s ubpo e n a t o p r o v i d e c op i e s o f 18 A .

i n v o i c e s o r s a l e s r e c o r d s f o r a n y i t ems t h a t t h e y ma y 19

h a v e s o l d t o B r oo k e G r a y o r B&B Equ i n e De n t i s t r y f o r 20

t h e t i me f r om J a nu a r y 1 , 2009 un t i l , I b e l i e v e i t wa s 21

Ma y 26 , 2010 . 22

And d i d t ha t bus i ne s s de l i v e r t o t he Ve t e r i na r y 23 Q .

Boa r d any ma t e r i a l s? 24

Th e y d i d . 25 A .

335

I ' m go i ng t o show you wha t I ha v e ma r k ed a s 1 Q .

P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 42 . 2

Pu t t h e s e b a c k down h e r e s o t h e y don ' t f a l l on 3 A .

t h e f l oo r . 4

Le t ' s k e ep t he s e e xh i b i t s i n s i gh t he r e .5 Q .

Ok a y . 6 A .

MR . FROWNFELTER : I s i t a l l r i gh t i f we k e ep t hem 7

he r e? 8

THE COURT : Ye s .9

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER) Wou l d you l ook a t wha t ' s 10 Q .

be en ma r k ed a s Exh i b i t 42? 11

Ye s . 12 A .

Do you r e cogn i z e t ha t documen t ? 13 Q .

I don ' t r e c ogn i z e a s h a v i ng s e e n t h e a f f i d a v i t 14 A .

t h a t ' s on t h e t op , bu t I ' v e s e e n t h e s e s t a t eme n t s a nd 15

i n v o i c e s t h a t a r e a t t a c h e d t o i t .16

And wha t - - a r e t hos e t he documen t s t ha t 17 Q .

Cha r i t on Bus i ne s s Supp l y de l i v e r ed t o you? 18

Th e y d i dn ' t d e l i v e r t h em t o me , t h e y ma i l e d 19 A .

t ho s e t o t h e Ve t e r i n a r y Bo a r d o f f i c e i n J e f f e r s on C i t y . 20

D i d t he y be come pa r t o f t he f i l e t ha t you 21 Q .

r e v i ewed? 22

Ye s . 23 A .

And j us t t o summa r i z e wha t t ha t doe s s a y , wha t 24 Q .

do t hos e v e t e r i na r y r e co r ds r e f l e c t ? 25

336

You r e f e r r i ng t o t h e a f f i d a v i t o r t h e do c ume n t s 1 A .

t h a t c ame f r om . . . 2

The a t t a ched documen t s . 3 Q .

Th e a t t a c h e d do c ume n t s . A t t h e t op , f o r 4 A .

e x amp l e , t h e f i r s t on e s a y s , Ch a r i t on Ve t Supp l y a nd i t 5

h a s t h e i r a dd r e s s . Sa y s s o l d t o B r oo k e G r a y , 6227 6

Sou t h e a s t Pe r r e n , P - e - r - r - e - n , Ho l t , M i s s ou r i 64048 , 7

a nd i t h a s a d e s c r i p t i on o f t h e i t ems t h a t we r e s o l d on 8

t h a t i n v o i c e . 9

I n t h i s p a r t i c u l a r c a s e i t wa s a qu a n t i t y , f ou r 10

o f n e e d l e s , d i s po s a b l e , f o l l owe d b y t h e l e t t e r s 11

20 X 1 . 5 a t a un i t p r i c e o f $9 . 99 a nd a n e x t e nd e d p r i c e 12

o f $39 . 96 . Th e s e c ond i t em wa s a qu a n t i t y o f f ou r , 13

d e s c r i b e d a s s y r i ng e s , mono j e c t , a nd t h a t ' s 14

m - o - n - o - j - e - c - t , f o l l owe d b y t h e l e t t e r s a nd numb e r s 15

6CC f o r $10 . 99 e x t e nd e d t o $43 . 96 , a nd t h e n t o t a l e d f o r 16

t h e i n v o i c e . 17

D i d you e s t ab l i sh how many i nd i v i dua l ne ed l e s 18 Q .

and s y r i nge s a r e i n t he s e pa c k age s? 19

Ye s . Th e d i s po s a b l e n e e d l e s c ome bo x e d 100 a nd 20 A .

t h e - - 21

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , ob j e c t i on a s t o r e l e v anc e . 22

I t ha sn ' t e v en be en sugge s t ed t ha t t he ne ed l e s t ha t a r e 23

l i s t ed i n t he s e r e co r ds a r e t he ne ed l e s t ha t a r e i n 24

f r on t o f t he w i t ne s s ; t he r e f o r e , t he r e ' s no r e l e v anc e 25

337

o f t he s e r e co r ds t o t he t e s t i mony be i ng o f f e r ed , o r t o 1

t he c a s e . 2

MR . FROWNFELTER : The r e l e v anc e o f t he r e co r ds i s 3

t ha t we ha v e bus i ne s s r e co r ds wh i ch demons t r a t e t ha t 4

t ha t t he De f endan t , B r ook e G r a y , wa s buy i ng 5

cons i de r ab l e quan t i t i e s o f d i spos ab l e ne ed l e s and 6

s y r i nge s v i r t ua l l y e v e r y mon t h ov e r a 15 - mon t h pe r i od , 7

wh i ch i s cons i s t en t w i t h a conc l us i on and i n f e r enc e 8

t ha t t he pe r son who i s buy i ng ne ed l e s and s y r i nge s i n 9

t ha t quan t i t y i s engaged i n t he us e o f t hos e p r oduc t s , 10

wh i ch wou l d i nvo l v e - - i t s e r v e s a s e v i denc e t ha t she 11

wa s i n f a c t s eda t i ng ho r s e s i n he r bus i ne s s a t t ha t 12

t i me . 13

Onc e aga i n , i t ' s up t o t he Cou r t t o de t e r m i n e 14

whe t he r t ha t i s a c r ed i b l e i n f e r enc e i t c an d r aw , bu t 15

i n t e r ms o f adm i s s i b i l i t y we be l i e v e t ha t t h i s i s 16

r e l e v an t i n f o r ma t i on . 17

THE COURT : Ov e r r u l ed . You ma y p r oc e ed .18

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) A l l r i gh t , t he que s t i on 19 Q .

be f o r e you wa s whe t he r you a s c e r t a i ned how many ne ed l e s 20

and s y r i nge s we r e i n e a ch o f t hos e pa c k age s t ha t a r e 21

l i s t ed a s un i t s on t ha t r epo r t ? 22

Ye s . As I s a i d j u s t a mome n t a go , t h e n e e d l e s 23 A .

a r e bo x e d 100 i n a bo x , a nd s o a qu a n t i t y o f f ou r bo x e s 24

wou l d b e 400 n e e d l e s . Th e s y r i ng e s a r e bo x e d 50 i n a 25

338

bo x , s o t h a t wou l d b e 200 s y r i ng e s .1

W i t hou t r e c i t i ng e a ch i nd i v i dua l quan t i t y and 2 Q .

amoun t , wha t i s t he gene r a l pa t t e r n r e f l e c t ed i n t he s e 3

r e co r ds i n t e r ms o f how many pa c k age s o f t he s e p r oduc t s 4

we r e be i ng pu r cha s ed ov e r t he pe r i od i n t he su r v e y? 5

Pe r haps t ha t ' s a bad que s t i on , I ' l l w i t hd r aw t ha t , 6

o k a y . 7

The r epo r t o f Ma r ch 24 t h , 2010 r e f l e c t s 8

pu r cha s e o f f ou r pa c k age s o f ne ed l e s and f ou r s y r i nge s ; 9

i s t ha t co r r e c t ? Th i s i s t he f i r s t one , Ma r ch 24 t h 10

2010 . 11

Ma r c h 24 , 2010 , t h a t ' s c o r r e c t . 12 A .

The s e cond one da t ed Ma r ch 4 , 2010 , how many 13 Q .

pa c k age s o f ne ed l e s and s y r i nge s i s t ha t ? 14

Two p a c k a g e s o f n e e d l e s a nd on e p a c k a g e o r bo x 15 A .

o f s y r i ng e s . 16

The t h i r d page , F eb r ua r y 1s t , 2010 , wha t doe s 17 Q .

t ha t r e f l e c t ? 18

On e bo x o f n e e d l e s a nd on e bo x o f s y r i ng e s . 19 A .

The f ou r t h page , Nov embe r 10 t h , 2009 ; wha t doe s 20 Q .

t ha t r e f l e c t ? 21

Two bo x e s o f s y r i ng e s . 22 A .

The f i f t h t h page , Nov embe r 18 t h , 2009 ; t ha t 23 Q .

doe s no t con t a i n e i t he r , doe s i t ? 24

No n e e d l e s o r s y r i ng e s on t h a t i n v o i c e . 25 A .

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The ne x t page , Oc t obe r 21s t , 2009 , how many 1 Q .

pa c k age s o f ne ed l e s , how many s y r i nge s? 2

Two bo x e s o f n e e d l e s a nd t wo bo x e s o f s y r i ng e s . 3 A .

The f o l l ow i ng page , Oc t obe r 2nd , 2009 , wha t 4 Q .

doe s t ha t - - 5

E x c u s e me . On e bo x o f n e e d l e s . 6 A .

The ne x t page , appa r en t l y Augus t 28 , 2009 , 7 Q .

ne i t he r ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 8

Ye s .9 A .

Augus t 4 t h , 2009 ; wha t doe s t ha t r e f l e c t ? 10 Q .

Two bo x e s o f n e e d l e s a nd t wo bo x e s o f s y r i ng e s . 11 A .

No t h i ng on 7 / 13 . Wha t doe s t he r epo r t o f 12 Q .

7 / 6 / 09 r e f l e c t ? 13

Two bo x e s o f n e e d l e s a nd f ou r bo x e s o f 14 A .

s y r i ng e s . 15

Ok a y . I t h i nk we ' v e p r e t t y much e s t ab l i shed 16 Q .

wha t we ne ed t o w i t h t ha t . 17


o f f e r i n t o e v i denc e wha t I ha v e ma r k ed a s P l a i n t i f f ' s 19

Exh i b i t No . 42 , no t i ng t ha t t he r e ' s a bus i ne s s r e co r ds 20

A f f i da v i t o f Robe r t Ra i ne r , cus t od i an o f r e co r ds o f 21

Cha r i t on Ve t Supp l y . The A f f i da v i t ' s da t ed 22

Sep t embe r 14 t h , 2011 .23


e v i denc e . )25

340


THE COURT : P l a i n t i f f ' s 42 w i l l be adm i t t ed . 2


e v i denc e . ) 4

MR . FROWNFELTER : And I ha v e no f u r t he r que s t i ons 5

o f t h i s w i t ne s s . 6


MR . ROLAND : I ne ed j us t one momen t . 8

9


BY MR . ROLAND :11

M r . Bu r t on , do you r emembe r t he depos i t i on t ha t 12 Q .

we had? 13

Ce r t a i n l y do . 14 A .

Ok a y . Do you ma i n t a i n t ha t e v e r y t h i ng you s a i d 15 Q .

a t t ha t depos i t i on wa s t r u t h f u l ? 16

As I r e v i ewe d t h a t d e po s i t i on , I wou l d s a y t h a t 17 A .

e v e r y t h i ng wa s t r u t h f u l . I m i gh t h a v e b e e n o f f on t h e 18

p e r c e n t a g e o f t h e t y p e o f wo r k t h a t I do f o r t h e 19

Ve t e r i n a r y Bo a r d , I ma y h a v e m i s s e d a d a y o r t wo , 20

bu t . . . 21

D i d you e x e r c i s e you r r i gh t t o s i gn a s t o t he 22 Q .

a c cu r a c y o f t he depos i t i on? 23

I wa i v e d my r i gh t t o s i gn , a s I r e c a l l . We 24 A .

d i s c u s s e d t h a t , I b e l i e v e , b e f o r e t h e d e po s i t i on 25

341

s t a r t e d a nd wh e n i t wa s o v e r I wa i v e d my r i gh t . 1

Ok a y . Do you r emembe r t ha t I a s k ed you t he 2 Q .

que s t i on , " Wa s t he t ube ma r k ed o r da t ed i n any wa y? " 3

You s a i d , " No . " 4

I r ememb e r t h a t y ou a s k e d me t h a t qu e s t i on a nd 5 A .

I wa s i n c o r r e c t a bou t t h a t , a nd t h e t ub e wa s ma r k e d a s 6

I d e s c r i b e d i t j u s t i n my t e s t i mon y e a r l i e r . 7

You t e s t i f i ed unde r oa t h a t you r depos i t i on 8 Q .

t ha t t ha t t ube wa s no t ma r k ed when you t ook pos s e s s i on 9

o f i t ; i sn ' t t ha t co r r e c t ? 10

I c a nno t d e n y t h a t ' s wh a t I s a i d , bu t I wa s 11 A .

w r ong a nd t h e t ub e wa s ma r k e d . 12

I a s k ed , " We r e t he bags ma r k ed o r da t ed i n any 13 Q .

wa y? " You s a i d , " No , no t t ha t I r e c a l l . "14

And t h a t ' s c o r r e c t , t h e r e we r e no ma r k i ng s on 15 A .

t he bags . 16

I a s k ed , " Wa s t he r e any documen t a t i on when t he 17 Q .

t ube and bags changed hands? " And you s a i d , " No . " 18

I sn ' t t ha t co r r e c t ? 19

Tha t ' s co r r e c t . 20 A .

I a s k ed , " Ms . Wy co f f d i d no t s i gn any t h i ng 21 Q .

i nd i c a t i ng she wa s hand i ng ov e r t he t ube and t he bags . " 22

You s a i d , " No . " 23

Sh e d i dn ' t s i gn a n y do c ume n t t h a t s h e wa s 24 A .

h a nd i ng i t o v e r t o me ; s h e h a d h e r i n i t i a l s on t h i s 25

342

t ub e . 1

Bu t you d i dn ' t t e l l me any t h i ng abou t i n i t i a l s 2 Q .

on t he t ube when we had ou r depos i t i on , d i d you? 3

I m i s s po k e . I f o r go t t h a t t h e i n i t i a l s we r e on 4 A .

t h e t ub e . 5

When you r e c e i v ed t he t ube i t wa sn ' t s e a l ed , 6 Q .

wa s i t ? 7

No . I t ' s e x a c t l y l i k e y ou s aw i t t od a y . 8 A .

So someone cou l d open and c l os e i t and t he r e 9 Q .

wou l d be no i nd i c a t i on t ha t i t had be en opened and 10

c l os ed ; co r r e c t ? 11

Co r r e c t . 12 A .

A t you r depos i t i on you sugge s t ed t ha t t he f i r s t 13 Q .

memo r i a l i z a t i on o f t he t r ans f e r t a k i ng p l a c e wa s a 14

r epo r t you w r o t e on Ap r i l 7 t h ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 15

Th e f i r s t wh a t , memo r i z a t i on?16 A .

Memo r i z a t i on . 17 Q .

Me a n i ng t h e t i me I w r o t e my r e po r t ? 18 A .

Tha t ' s - - 19 Q .

Ap r i l t h e 7 t h i s t h e d a t e o f my r e po r t 20 A .

r e c o r d i ng t h e i n t e r v i ew w i t h M i c h e l l e Wy c o f f wh e n I 21

ob t a i n e d t h i s e v i d e n c e , t h a t ' s c o r r e c t . 22

Ok a y . So t wo da y s had e l aps ed be t we en you r 23 Q .

t a k i ng pos s e s s i on and you r w r i t i ng t he r epo r t ? 24

Th a t ' s c o r r e c t . 25 A .

343

When you t ook pos s e s s i on o f t h i s t ube you s a i d 1 Q .

you k ep t i t i n you r l i v i ng r oom? 2

I s a i d I k e p t i t und e r n e a t h t h e d e s k i n my home 3 A .

o f f i c e . 4

Tha t ' s r i gh t , and you r home o f f i c e i s you r 5 Q .

l i v i ng r oom ; co r r e c t ? 6

I t ' s i n t h e c o r n e r o f my - - p r ob a b l y a b e t t e r 7 A .

wo r d wou l d b e t o d e s c r i b e i t a s t h e f r on t r oom o f my 8

home r a t he r t han t he l i v i ng r oom . 9

So you s a i d - - 10 Q .

I s a i d - - 11 A .

- - a t you r depos i t i on , I a s k ed , " Can I a s k wha t 12 Q .

r oom you r de s k i s i n i n you r home? " You r e sponded , 13

" Wha t I wou l d c a l l my f r on t l i v i ng r oom , a co r ne r o f my 14

f r on t l i v i ng r oom " ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 15

Th a t ' s good e nough . 16 A .

Ok a y . 17 Q .

I don ' t l i v e i n i t , bu t t h a t ' s wh a t mo s t p e op l e 18 A .

wou l d c a l l i t . 19

And I a s k ed you whe t he r t he l i v i ng r oom wa s 20 Q .

open t o t he r e s t o f t he hous e , d i dn ' t I ? 21

I t i s i nd e e d . 22 A .

And , y e s , i t ' s open t o t he r e s t o f t he hous e . 23 Q .

So i t ' s no t a r oom you c an l oc k? 24

I t ' s no t a r oom I c a n l o c k . 25 A .

344

And we t a l k ed abou t t he de s k whe r e you s a i d you 1 Q .

k ep t t he t ube? 2

Ye s .3 A .

And you s a i d i t wa s an open de s k w i t h a f oo t 4 Q .

we l l ; co r r e c t ? 5

Th a t ' s r i gh t . 6 A .

And t ha t t he r e wa s no f i l e c ab i ne t ; co r r e c t ? 7 Q .

Th e r e i s - - t h i s wa s no t i n t h e f i l e c a b i n e t . 8 A .

I h a v e a n op e n wood e n s h e l f und e r n e a t h t h e d e s k on on e 9

s i d e t h a t I k e e p p a p e r s a nd t h i ng s i n . And t h e n 10

t h e r e ' s s p a c e b e t we e n t h a t a nd t h e wa l l , a nd t h i s t ub e 11

wa s b e h i nd t h a t wood e n op e n c a b i n e t o r s h e l f , wh a t e v e r 12

y ou wa n t t o c a l l i t , b e t we e n t h e r e a nd t h e wa l l . 13

Bu t i t wa s no t i n a f i l e c ab i ne t ? 14 Q .

I t wa s no t i n s i d e a f i l e c a b i n e t , t h a t ' s 15 A .

c o r r e c t . 16

And so i t wa s no t enc l os ed w i t h i n any p i e c e o f 17 Q .

f u r n i t u r e? 18

I t wa s no t e n c l o s e d i n s i d e a p i e c e o f 19 A .

f u r n i t u r e . 20

And i n f a c t I a s k ed a t t he depos i t i on , " The s e 21 Q .

i t ems we r e j us t s i t t i ng on t he f l oo r t he r e? " And you 22

s a i d , " Ye s " ; co r r e c t ? 23

Th e y we r e s i t t i ng on t h e f l oo r b e h i nd t h i s 24 A .

l i t t l e op e n s h e l f a nd n e x t t o t h e wa l l . 25

345

Now I a l so a s k ed you i f you had company ov e r , 1 Q .

and you s a i d su r e .2

Su r e . 3 A .

And you s a i d t ha t when you had company ov e r you 4 Q .

wou l d no t b l oc k o f f a c c e s s t o you r l i v i ng r oom? 5


And you s a i d t ha t you ' d made no e f f o r t t o k e ep 7 Q .

an e y e on t hos e i t ems when you had company ov e r ? 8

I p r ob a b l y s a i d t h a t . 9 A .

I t ' s i n t he depos i t i on . 10 Q .

Th a t ' s f i n e . 11 A .

So i n f a c t , t h i s i t em wa s no t k ep t s e cu r e f r om 12 Q .

anyone who m i gh t ha v e be en i n you r home? 13

Ye s , i t wa s . I wou l d s a y i t wa s s e c u r e , 14 A .

b e c a u s e nobod y go e s a r ound my d e s k . Th e p e op l e t h a t 15

c ome v i s i t me don ' t go t o my d e s k a nd t h e y don ' t p r y 16

b e h i nd my c a b i n e t , a nd t h e y don ' t l oo k a t my t h i ng s . 17

So I ' d s a y i t wa s s e c u r e b e h i nd t h a t c a b i n e t , t h a t op e n 18

s h e l f a nd up a g a i n s t t h e wa l l und e r n e a t h my d e s k . 19

A r e you s a y i ng t ha t peop l e t ha t v i s i t you r 20 Q .

hous e ne v e r l e a v e you r s i gh t ? 21

Oh , a b s o l u t e l y , I wou l d no t s a y t h a t . Th e y do 22 A .

l e a v e my s i gh t . Th e y go t o t h e b a t h r oom , t h e y go down 23

t o t h e b a s eme n t , t h e y go t o t h e r e f r i g e r a t o r t o g e t a 24

b e e r , go ou t i n t h e g a r a g e a nd do woodwo r k , go t o t h e 25

346

k i t c h e n a nd e a t . 1

A r e you s a y i ng t ha t i t i s i mpos s i b l e f o r 2 Q .

someone t o go i n you r l i v i ng r oom i f you ' r e no t t he r e 3

t o wa t ch t hem?4

I t ' s no t i mpo s s i b l e . 5 A .

So i n f a c t i t ' s en t i r e l y pos s i b l e t ha t someone 6 Q .

cou l d ha v e gone i n t o t ha t r oom and p i c k ed up t h i s t ube 7

w i t hou t you ha v i ng any know l edge o f i t ? 8

I wou l dn ' t s a y i t ' s e n t i r e l y po s s i b l e ; i t ' s 9 A .

po s s i b l e t h a t s ome on e c ou l d h a v e don e t h a t , bu t t h e y 10

wou l d h a v e h a d t o g e t down on t h e i r k n e e s , c r aw l e d 11

und e r n e a t h t h e r e , a nd g e t t o t h a t t ub e . 12

Now when you t ook pos s e s s i on o f t he s e i t ems you 13 Q .

d i dn ' t pe r f o r m any t e s t i ng on t hem , d i d you? 14

I d i d no t . 15 A .

The r e ' s be en no f i nge r p r i n t i ng? 16 Q .

No , I don ' t h a v e t h e a b i l i t y t o do a n y t e s t i ng , 17 A .

a nd I don ' t h a v e t h e s k i l l t o do a n y , a n y l ong e r a n y 18

f i ng e r p r i n t i ng . 19

And t he r e ' s be en no ana l y s i s o f wha t t he bo t t l e 20 Q .

m i gh t ha v e con t a i ned a s f a r a s a chem i c a l ana l y s i s? 21

Th a t ' s c o r r e c t , t h e r e h a s no t b e e n . 22 A .

And you we r e no t ab l e t o f i gu r e ou t whe r e t h i s 23 Q .

bo t t l e c ame f r om , we r e you? 24

I s a i d t h a t I wa s no t a b l e t o do t h a t . 25 A .

347

I n f a c t , on t he r e co r ds t ha t we r e ob t a i ned f r om 1 Q .

Cha r i t on , t he y don ' t show t he s a l e o f any T r anqu i v ed , 2

do t he y? 3

No . I t ' s a p r e s c r i p t i on i t em . You h a v e t o 4 A .

h a v e a p r e s c r i p t i on t o g e t t h i s i t em . 5

Do you ha v e any t h i ng t o i nd i c a t e t ha t whoe v e r 6 Q .

ob t a i ned t ha t bo t t l e d i d no t ha v e a p r e s c r i p t i on? 7

Oh , no . I c ou l dn ' t - - a s I me n t i on e d i n my 8 A .

e a r l i e r t e s t i mon y , we k now who ma nu f a c t u r e d t h a t bu t we 9

don ' t k now who t h e e nd u s e r wa s . Th e r e ' s no r e c o r d s i n 10

b e t we e n t o s how who wa s t h e e nd u s e r o r pu r c h a s e r . 11

So i n f a c t i t ' s en t i r e l y pos s i b l e t ha t a 12 Q .

v e t e r i na r i an ob t a i ned t ha t bo t t l e , i sn ' t i t ? 13

You ' r e u s i ng t h e wo r d e n t i r e l y po s s i b l e . I t 14 A .

i s po s s i b l e t h a t a v e t e r i n a r i a n c ou l d h a v e ob t a i n e d 15

t h a t bo t t l e . 16

And you wou l d ha v e no e v i denc e t ha t wou l d 17 Q .

i nd i c a t e t o t he con t r a r y? 18

Th a t ' s c o r r e c t . 19 A .

So i t i s pos s i b l e t ha t a v e t e r i na r i an p r ov i ded 20 Q .

t ha t bo t t l e t o Ms . Wy co f f , i sn ' t i t ? 21


Bu t i t ' s pos s i b l e? 23 Q .

I t ' s po s s i b l e t h a t s ome on e i n t h i s r oom c ou l d 24 A .

h a v e g i v e n i t t o h e r . I don ' t k now . I h a v e no i d e a 25

348

how s h e go t t h a t bo t t l e . 1

I ' d l i k e t o - - j us t t o ma k e abso l u t e l y c e r t a i n . 2 Q .

I ' m hand i ng you an o r i g i na l copy o f t he w r i t t en 3

depos i t i on t ha t we engaged i n . 4

Ok a y . 5 A .

I j us t wan t t o ma k e su r e t ha t we con f i r m a 6 Q .

coup l e o f t h i ngs . 7

Ok a y . 8 A .

On Page 20 , i f you cou l d r e ad l i ne s 9 t h r ough 9 Q .

11 , p l e a s e . 10

9 t h r ough 11 . L i n e 9 i s a qu e s t i on . " Ok a y , 11 A .

wa s t h e t ub e ma r k e d o r d a t e d i n a n y wa y ? " L i n e 11 . 12

" An swe r : No . "13

Ok a y . Le t ' s t u r n t o Page 27 . And i f you cou l d 14 Q .

r e ad L i ne 7 t h r ough 20 , p l e a s e . 15

7 t h r ough 20 . L i n e 7 i s a qu e s t i on . 16 A .

I t s a y s , " Ok a y , I ' d l i k e t o go b a c k t o t h e t ub e 17

t h a t y ou r e c e i v e d f r om M i c h e l l e Wy c o f f . " 18

" An swe r : Ok a y . " 19

" Qu e s t i on : How wa s i t s e a l e d? " 20

" An swe r : I t wa s n ' t s e a l e d . " 21

" Qu e s t i on : I t wa s no t s e a l e d? " 22

" An swe r : As w i t h t a p e o r a n y t h i ng? " 23

" I t wa s a c a r dbo a r d t ub e v e r y s i m i l a r t o on e 24

I ' m s u r e y ou ' v e s e e n . Ma y b e y ou ' v e r e c e i v e d t h i ng s i n 25

349

t h e ma i l t h a t wa y t h a t h a s a p l a s t i c c a p t h a t f i t s o v e r 1

t he end . " 2

" Qu e s t i on : Ok a y , bu t t h e r e ' s no t a p e o r 3

any t h i ng? "4

" An swe r : Th e r e wa s no t a p e on i t . "5

" Qu e s t i on : And no d a t e ? "6

" An swe r : And no d a t e wh e n s h e g a v e i t t o me . " 7

MR . ROLAND : I ' d l i k e t o ha v e t he depos i t i on ma r k ed 8

a s De f endan t ' s Exh i b i t No . 7 . And I wou l d l i k e t o 9

o f f e r i t i n t o e v i denc e .10


e v i denc e . ) 12


THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . De f endan t ' s No . 7 w i l l be 14

adm i t t ed . 15


e v i denc e . ) 17

MR . ROLAND : And j us t t o be c l e a r , I ' d l i k e t o 18

t a k e P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 42 . 19

THE COURT : Su r e .20

( BY MR . ROLAND ) I ' m go i ng t o hand t o you aga i n 21 Q .

wha t ' s be en l abe l ed P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 42 , a copy 22

o f t he bus i ne s s r e co r ds f r om Cha r i t on . 23

You t e s t i f i ed t ha t t he r e co r ds beg i n a t , wha t 24

da t e wa s t he e a r l i e s t r e co r d i n t h i s ba t ch? 25

350

I t a pp e a r s t h a t t h e e a r l i e s t i n v o i c e i s d a t e d 1 A .

J a nu a r y 29 , 2009 . 2

J anua r y 29? 3 Q .

J a nu a r y 29 . I t s a y s 01 / 29 / 09 . 4 A .

Ok a y . We l l you had t e s t i f i ed t ha t wou l d ha v e 5 Q .

be en r eque s t ed we r e i n Ju l y 2009 , so i t appe a r s t ha t - - 6

I t e s t i f i e d - - I t e s t i f i e d t h a t we - - t h e 7 A .

s ubpo e n a a s k e d f o r r e c o r d s f r om J a nu a r y 1 , 2009 t h r ough 8

Ma y 26 t h , 2010 , I b e l i e v e . 9

I ma y ha v e m i sunde r s t ood t hen . Ok a y . Thank 10 Q .

you . 11

Th a n k y ou . 12 A .

MR . ROLAND : I be l i e v e we ha v e no f u r t he r 13

que s t i ons , You r Hono r . 14

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . Any r ed i r e c t , 15


17



M r . Bu r t on , a t t he t i me you d i d you r 20 Q .

depos i t i on , d i d you ha v e t he t ube w i t h you? 21

I d i d no t . 22 A .

Had you mov ed i t t o , t o a s c e r t a i n wha t wa s on 23 Q .

i t a t any t i me du r i ng t he mon t hs p r e c ed i ng you r 24

depos i t i on? 25

351

I don ' t r e c a l l h a v i ng l oo k e d a t t h a t t ub e f o r 1 A .

s e v e r a l mon t h s p r i o r t o t h e d e po s i t i on . 2

I s t he r e any r e a son why you wou l d t e l l 3 Q .

M r . Ro l and t ha t t he t ube wa s no t ma r k ed when i t wa s? 4

No . 5 A .

A r e t he i t ems wh i ch you r emov ed f r om t ha t t ube 6 Q .

t oda y - - l e t me ba c k up on t ha t . 7

You l ook ed a t t he i t ems t ha t we r e i n t he t ube 8

w i t h Ms . Wy co f f when she ga v e t hem t o you ; i s t ha t 9

co r r e c t ? 10

Ye s . 11 A .

A r e t he i t ems t ha t we r e , t ha t you t ook ou t o f 12 Q .

t ha t t ube t oda y t he s ame a s t he i t ems you l ook ed a t 13

when you f i r s t r e c e i v ed t hem f r om M i che l l e Wy co f f ? 14

Ye s . 15 A .

I s t he r e any d i f f e r enc e be t we en t he , wha t t he y 16 Q .

we r e when she ga v e t hem t o you and wha t t he y a r e now? 17

No . 18 A .



THE COURT : Thank you , you ma y s t ep down .21

THE W I TNESS : Thank you . 22


c a l l M i che l l e Wy co f f . 24

THE COURT : P l e a s e s t ep f o r wa r d and be swo r n .25

352

M I CHELLE WYCOF F , du l y swo r n by t he C i r cu i t C l e r k , 1

Mo l l y L i v i ngs t on .2


4



Wou l d you s t a t e you r name and add r e s s f o r t he 7 Q .

r e co r d , p l e a s e .8

M i c h e l l e Wy c o f f , 1315 No r t h e a s t 95 t h S t r e e t , 9 A .

Ka n s a s C i t y , M i s s ou r i 64155 . 10

And wha t ' s you r cu r r en t oc cupa t i on? 11 Q .

S t a y - a t - home mom . 12 A .

Wha t i s you r f o r me r oc cupa t i on? 13 Q .

Po l i c e o f f i c e r w i t h t h e Ka n s a s C i t y , M i s s ou r i 14 A .

Po l i c e De p a r t me n t . 15

So r r y , I ne ed f o r you t o spe a k up a b i t . 16 Q .

Po l i c e o f f i c e r w i t h t h e Ka n s a s C i t y , M i s s ou r i 17 A .

Po l i c e De p a r t me n t . 18

Thank you v e r y much . 19 Q .

Ms . Wy co f f , do you own ho r s e s? 20

I do . 21 A .

How many ho r s e s do you own now? 22 Q .

Th r e e . 23 A .

And how l ong ha v e you be en a ho r s e owne r ? 24 Q .

A t l e a s t 31 y e a r s , a t l e a s t . 25 A .

353

Whe r e do t he ho r s e s you cu r r en t l y own boa r d? 1 Q .

On e ' s i n Ke a r n e y , M i s s ou r i . Two a r e i n 2 A .

Co l o r ado . 3

Go i ng ba c k t o t he t i me a r ound Ap r i l 2010 , whe r e 4 Q .

we r e you boa r d i ng you r ho r s e s t hen? 5

A t t h e Wood s on H i l l Equ e s t r i a n Ce n t e r , wh i c h 6 A .

wa s R i v e r B l u f f Re s c u e Ra n c h t h e y a l s o d i d a ho r s e 7

r e s c u e p r og r am a t . 8

And who i s t he owne r o f t ha t f a c i l i t y? 9 Q .

E l i z a b e t h H i l l . 10 A .

I s t he r e any k i nd o f vo l un t e e r wo r k t ha t wa s 11 Q .

go i ng on a t t ha t t i me a t t he Woodson H i l l Eque s t r i an 12

Cen t e r ? 13

Th a t ' s wh a t I wa s do i ng ou t t h e r e wa s I wa s 14 A .

v o l un t e e r i ng w i t h t h e r e s c u e o r g a n i z a t i on . My mo t h e r 15

h a d p a s s e d awa y , a nd I go t i n v o l v e d w i t h t h a t c h a r i t y 16

i n hono r o f h e r , a nd I h a d p e op l e don a t e mon e y t o t h a t 17

a nd wa s h e l p i ng E l i z a b e t h w i t h t h a t . 18

And t he na t u r e o f t ha t cha r i t y i s a r e s cue 19 Q .

s e r v i c e? Wha t e x a c t l y wa s i t do i ng? 20

Th e y wou l d t a k e i n a bu s e d a nd n e g l e c t e d ho r s e s 21 A .

a nd r e h a b t h em a nd a dop t t h em ou t . 22

And whe r e i s Ms . H i l l ' s , Woodson H i l l s s t ud i o 23 Q .

l oc a t ed? O r s t ud i o , Woodson H i l l f a c i l i t y l oc a t ed? 24

I t ' s , I don ' t k now t h e e x a c t a dd r e s s , i t ' s 25 A .

354

e i t h e r 7900 o r 7990 No r t hwe s t Ma c e Ro a d , i t ' s i n P l a t t e 1

Coun t y i n Ka n s a s C i t y , M i s s ou r i . 2

A r e you f am i l i a r w i t h t he name o f B r ook e G r a y? 3 Q .

Ye s . 4 A .

Wha t wa s t he f i r s t con t e x t i n wh i ch you e v e r 5 Q .

he a r d t he name o f B r ook e G r a y? 6

I h a d h e a r d i t , o r I h e a r d h e r n ame t h r ough , I 7 A .

gu e s s i t wou l d b e Ms . H i l l a nd s ome o f t h e o t h e r p e op l e 8

a t t h e b a r n t a l k i ng a bou t Do c t o r B r oo k e h a d don e s ome 9

wo r k on s ome o f t h e r e s c u e ho r s e s . Th e r e wa s a 10

n ews l e t t e r , I t h i n k , t h a t t h e y h a d pu t ou t a r ound t h e 11

t i me I go t i n v o l v e d t h e r e , I t h i n k a r ound t h e t i me o f 12

my mom ' s p a s s i ng . 13

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , I ob j e c t and I mov e t o 14

s t r i k e a s he a r s a y . She ' s r e l a t i ng p r e sumab l y f o r t he 15

t r u t h o f t he ma t t e r wha t peop l e a t t he eque s t r i an 16

c en t e r we r e r epe a t ed l y s a y i ng . 17

MR . FROWNFELTER : We l l , wha t I a s k ed he r i s how she 18

f i r s t be c ame awa r e o f t he name . I wou l dn ' t oppos e , you 19

know , c e r t a i n d i s r ega r d i ng any he a r s a y con t en t i n t he 20

s t a t emen t t o t he e x t en t t ha t i t i s . My que s t i on i s 21

me r e l y how she , t he f i r s t name f i r s t c ame t o he r 22

a t t en t i on . 23

THE COURT : I ' l l sus t a i n t he ob j e c t i on .24

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER) Who wa s t he f i r s t pe r son 25 Q .

355

who men t i oned t he name o f B r ook e G r a y t ha t you be c ame 1

awa r e o f ? 2

Ms . H i l l , I me a n , wou l d h a v e b e e n on e o f t h em . 3 A .

Th e n t h e n e x t p e r s on wou l d h a v e b e e n Do c t o r J a c k s on . 4

Ok a y . D i d you e v e r s e e o r me e t B r ook e G r a y i n 5 Q .

pe r son? 6

Ye s . 7 A .

Can you de s c r i be t he c i r cums t anc e s unde r wh i ch 8 Q .

you c ame t o me e t Ms . G r a y? 9

I wa s ou t a t t h e b a r n w i t h my t wo ho r s e s , a nd 10 A .

s h e wa s ou t t h e r e p e r f o r m i ng t e e t h f l o a t i ng on s e v e r a l 11

a n i ma l s a t t h e b a r n . 12

Wa s t he r e any w r i t t en i n f o r ma t i on t ha t i n f o r med 13 Q .

you t ha t she wou l d be a t t he ba r n? 14

Th e r e wa s . Th e r e wa s a d r y e r a s e - -15 A .

MR . ROLAND : Ob j e c t i on , You r Hono r , c a l l s f o r 16

he a r s a y . 17

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ' m a s k i ng he r wha t w r i t t en 18

i n f o r ma t i on she had t ha t l e ad he r t o be l i e v e t ha t t he 19

pe r son t ha t she wa s l a t e r t o s e e wa s B r ook e G r a y . 20

We ' r e no t o f f e r i ng t h i s t r u t h o f t he - - p r oo f o f a 21

t r u t h o f t he ma t t e r a s s e r t ed , we ' r e o f f e r i ng i t a s 22

p r oo f o f how she c ame t o be awa r e t ha t a pe r son named 23

B r ook e G r a y wa s a t t he s t ud i os , s t ab l e s . 24


356

Th e r e wa s a l a r g e d r y e r a s e bo a r d a t t h e b a r n 1 A .

t h a t wa s c ommon l y u s e d f o r e v e r y t h i ng f r om wh e n t h e 2

ho r s e s ho e r s , t h e d i f f e r e n t ho r s e s ho e r s t h a t we r e 3

c om i ng ou t , o r a n y on e e l s e t h a t wa s c om i ng ou t a nd 4

wh e r e s e r v i c e s a nd bo r d e r s s i gn e d up f o r t h e i r a n i ma l s 5

t o g e t t ho s e s e r v i c e s o f wh a t e v e r p e r s on wa s c om i ng 6

ou t . He r n ame wa s on t h e r e , B r oo k e G r a y , t h e d a t e a nd 7

t i me s h e wa s c om i ng ou t , a nd p e op l e s i gn e d up 8

und e r n e a t h t h e r e .9

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER) And we r e you p r e s en t i n 10 Q .

t he ba r n on t he da y when t hos e appo i n t men t s we r e 11

s chedu l ed? 12

I wa s . 13 A .

D i d you obs e r v e an i nd i v i dua l engaged i n any 14 Q .

k i nd o f den t a l s e r v i c e s on t ha t da y? 15

I d i d . 16 A .

Do you s e e t he i nd i v i dua l t ha t you obs e r v ed i n 17 Q .

t he cou r t r oom t oda y? 18

I do . 19 A .

Wou l d you de s c r i be wh i ch pe r son you ' r e 20 Q .

r e f e r r i ng t o? 21

On t h e b a c k r ow w i t h t h e wh i t e t u r t l e n e c k . 22 A .

D i d t h i s pe r son whom you s e e i n t he cou r t r oom 23 Q .

t oda y i den t i f y he r s e l f a t a l l t o you? 24

I c a n ' t r e c a l l s p e c i f i c a l l y i f s h e i n t r odu c e d 25 A .

357

h e r s e l f o r no t . I wa s n ' t u s i ng h e r on my a n i ma l s s o I 1

d i dn ' t n e c e s s a r i l y h a v e a r e a s on t o s p e a k w i t h h e r 2

on e - on - on e . 3

Wa s t h i s i nd i v i dua l i n t he p l a c e whe r e t he 4 Q .

appo i n t men t s l i s t ed f o r B r ook e G r a y we r e s chedu l ed? 5

Ye s . 6 A .

Wha t d i d you obs e r v e t h i s pe r son do i ng on t ha t 7 Q .

oc c a s i on? 8

A f t e r t h e ho r s e s we r e e i t h e r b r ough t up b y 9 A .

t h e i r own e r o r s ome on e e l s e i n t o t h e s t a l l a c r o s s f r om 10

wh e r e I wa s , I wa s - - t h e r e wa s a wa s h r a c k a r e a n e x t 11

t o t h e c r o s s t i e wh e r e p e op l e g e t t h e i r ho r s e s r e a d y , I 12

wa s i n t h e wa s h r a c k a r e a w i t h my ho r s e s . Th e r e wa s a 13

s t a l l r i gh t a c r o s s t h e h a l l wa y f r om wh e r e I wa s a t , a nd 14

s h e h a d a t a b l e s e t up w i t h b a g s a nd t h i ng s , a nd t h e n 15

s h e h a d a l l h e r e qu i pme n t i n t h a t s t a l l , wh e t h e r i t b e 16

t h e - - I don ' t k now a l l t h e t e c hn i c a l t e r ms f o r t h em . 17

And t h e n s h e - - t h e ho r s e s wou l d b e b r ough t i n t h e r e 18

a nd s h e wou l d s e d a t e t h em a nd t h e n p e r f o r m t h e d e n t a l 19

s e r v i c e s s h e wa s do i ng . 20

A t t he t i me we r e you f am i l i a r w i t h t he 21 Q .

p r oc edu r e known a s t oo t h f l oa t i ng? 22

Ye s . 23 A .

And wha t wa s you r unde r s t and i ng o f wha t t he 24 Q .

p r oc edu r e o f t oo t h f l oa t i ng i s? 25

358

E v e r y t h i ng I ' v e a l wa y s h a d don e b y t h e 1 A .

v e t e r i n a r i a n s h a s b e e n f o r y e a r s a nd i t wa s a l wa y s j u s t 2

t h e h a nd f i l e s a nd a l l o f t h a t . Th e n r e c e n t l y , I wou l d 3

s a y p r ob a b l y i n t h e p a s t t h r e e o r , go s h , I c a n ' t 4

r ememb e r , i t ' s b e e n l ong e r t h a n t h a t . I ' m go i ng t o s a y 5

ma y b e i n 2004 , 2005 i s wh e n I a c t u a l l y s aw t h e f i r s t , I 6

c a l l i t a powe r f l o a t , I don ' t k now wh a t t h e t e c hn i c a l 7

t e r m i s f o r i t . Bu t Do c t o r Wa gn e r down i n Ra ymo r e h a d 8

don e on on e o f my ho r s e s , a nd t h a t wa s t h e f i r s t t i me I 9

e v e r s e e n a n y t h i ng l i k e wh a t Ms . G r a y d i d . 10

So you ' r e f am i l i a r w i t h t he p r oc edu r e known a s 11 Q .

t oo t h f l oa t i ng ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 12

Co r r e c t . 13 A .

And wa s t he a c t i v i t i e s t ha t t h i s i nd i v i dua l wa s 14 Q .

pe r f o r m i ng , we r e t he y cons i s t en t w i t h wha t you 15

unde r s t and t oo t h f l oa t i ng t o be? 16

Ye s . 17 A .

A l l r i gh t , now you men t i oned t ha t t h i s 18 Q .

i nd i v i dua l s eda t ed t he ho r s e s t ha t you obs e r v ed he r 19

t r e a t i ng ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 20

Ye s . 21 A .

Spe c i f i c a l l y wha t wou l d , wha t a c t i ons d i d you 22 Q .

obs e r v e i n t e r ms o f s eda t i on o f t hos e ho r s e s by t h i s 23

pe r son? 24

Sh e go t a s y r i ng e w i t h a n e e d l e on i t , pu t i t 25 A .

359

i n t o a g l a s s bo t t l e , w i t hd r ew me d i c a t i on , we n t o v e r t o 1

t h e a n i ma l a nd i n j e c t e d i t i n t o t h e i r n e c k . 2

D i d you s e e t he an i ma l s t ha t we r e i n j e c t ed i n 3 Q .

t h i s wa y r e a c t o r change i n any wa y? 4

Ye s . Th e y d i d wh a t mo s t a n i ma l s t h a t g e t 5 A .

s e d a t e d do a nd go t s l e e p y . 6

Wha t k i nd o f equ i pmen t wa s t h i s pe r son us i ng? 7 Q .

Wa s i t powe r equ i pmen t o r hand f i l e s? 8

Powe r e qu i pme n t . 9 A .

App r ox i ma t e l y how many ho r s e s d i d you s e e he r 10 Q .

t r e a t i n t h i s wa y? 11

I t h i n k i t wa s f ou r o r f i v e . 12 A .

Do you r emembe r any o f t hos e ho r s e s i n 13 Q .

pa r t i cu l a r ? 14

I do t h e r e - - I do no t . Th e r e ' s on e o f t h em , I 15 A .

c a n ' t r ememb e r t h e i r n ame . 16

Do you r emembe r any unusua l e v en t s o r r e a c t i ons 17 Q .

t he ho r s e s had du r i ng t he t i me she wa s t r e a t i ng t hos e 18

ho r s e s? 19

MR . ROLAND : Ob j e c t i on , You r Hono r , t he w i t ne s s ha s 20

no t e s t ab l i shed t ha t she ' s awa r e wha t t he usua l 21

r e a c t i on wou l d be . 22

MR . FROWNFELTER : I t h i nk t he que s t i on i s j us t 23

whe t he r any o f t he ho r s e s r e a c t ed o r t he r e we r e any , 24

any t h i ng t ha t oc cu r r ed du r i ng any o f t he s e f ou r o r f i v e 25

360

s e s s i ons t ha t we r e unusua l i n t he s ens e t he y we r e 1

d i f f e r en t f r om t he o t he r s e s s i ons t ha t she obs e r v ed . 2

THE COURT : Ov e r r u l ed . You ma y p r oc e ed . 3

W i t h t wo o f t h e ho r s e s i n p a r t i c u l a r , s h e 4 A .

a dm i n i s t e r e d mo r e t h a n on e s ho t . On e o f t h e ho r s e s go t 5

t wo s ho t s , a no t h e r on e c on t i nu e d t o j u s t f i gh t a nd s h e 6

wa s h a v i ng a p r ob l em w i t h , a nd t h a t on e e nd e d up 7

ge t t i ng t h r e e . 8

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) When t h i s i nd i v i dua l wa s 9 Q .

f i n i shed wo r k i ng on t he ho r s e s , d i d you obs e r v e - - wha t 10

d i d you obs e r v e he r do when she wa s done? 11

W i t h a l l o f t h e ho r s e s ? 12 A .

W i t h a l l t he ho r s e s . 13 Q .

A f t e r s h e wa s - - we l l , wh e n s h e ' d f i l l ou t h e r 14 A .

p a p e r wo r k , a f t e r s h e wa s don e w i t h a l l o f t h em a nd wa s 15

c l e a n i ng h e r e qu i pme n t , s h e wa l k e d a c r o s s l i k e i n f r on t 16

o f wh e r e I wa s a nd t h e o t h e r t wo t a c k s t a l l a r e a s t o a n 17

emp t y t r a s h c a n t h a t wa s r i gh t n e x t t o t h e a r e n a , i t 18

wa s a me t a l t r a s h c a n , a nd d i s po s e d o f s y r i ng e s , 19

n e e d l e s , a nd bo t t l e o f me d i c a t i on . 20

We r e t he s e t he s ame s y r i nge s and bo t t l e t ha t 21 Q .

you had obs e r v ed he r us e? 22

Ye s . 23 A .

D i d she do any t h i ng i n t e r ms o f any k i nd o f 24 Q .

pape r wo r k? 25

361

Sh e wa s f i l l i ng ou t , y ou k now , s h e e t s a f t e r 1 A .

e v e r y ho r s e , y ou k now , wh i l e s h e wa s wo r k i ng on t ho s e 2

ho r s e s - - we l l , no t wh i l e s h e wa s wo r k i ng bu t 3

a f t e r wa r d s i f s h e n e e d e d t o ma k e no t e s s h e ma d e no t e s , 4

a nd wh e n s h e wa s don e w i t h t h em , a f ew o f t ho s e , s h e 5

s a t on a s t oo l t h a t wa s r i gh t b y on e o f t h e o t h e r t a c k 6

r ooms . I t wa s a c r o s s f r om t h e s t a l l s h e wa s wo r k i ng 7

on , o r i n . 8

Le t me c l a r i f y . A r e you s a y i ng t ha t she l e f t 9 Q .

t he s e documen t s t ha t she p r epa r ed on t h i s s t oo l ? 10

Ye s . 11 A .

We r e you f am i l i a r w i t h t he p r a c t i c e s o f v a r i ous 12 Q .

t r ade s peop l e who s e r v e t he ho r s e s i n t he , t h i s s t ab l e? 13

As f a r a s o t h e r s , l i k e , f a r r i e r s a nd o t h e r 14 A .

v e t e r i n a r i a n s - - 15

Ye s . 16 Q .

And s t u f f , y e s . 17 A .

And wha t wa s t he usua l p r oc edu r e f o r t hos e 18 Q .

peop l e t o r e c e i v e compens a t i on? 19

Ch e c k s . Mo s t f a r r i e r s , un l e s s y ou ma k e p r i o r 20 A .

a r r a ng eme n t s w i t h t h em , o r v e t e r i n a r i a n s i f y ou c a n ' t 21

b e t h e r e , y ou h a v e t o l e a v e a c h e c k on t h e bo a r d . 22

Th e r e ' s a , a l ong w i t h t h a t o t h e r bo a r d t h e r e wa s l i k e a 23

bo a r d , pu s h p i n s o r wh a t no t , o r t h e r e ' d b e a n e n v e l op e 24

y ou c ou l d l e a v e i t f o r t h em . 25

362

A l l r i gh t , d i d you ha v e any conv e r s a t i on w i t h 1 Q .

t h i s pe r son? 2

I t wa s v e r y m i n i ma l . 3 A .

We l l c an you r e l a t e wha t t ha t conv e r s a t i on wa s? 4 Q .

A t on e po i n t I r ememb e r h e r s a y i ng s ome t h i ng t o 5 A .

me a bou t my m i n i a t u r e ho r s e s . I t h i n k s h e ma y h a v e 6

on e , a nd i t wa s sma l l t a l k a bou t ma y b e k i d s o r 7

s ome t h i ng , s ome t h i ng a l ong t ho s e l i n e s . I t wa s v e r y , 8

v e r y m i n i ma l . Th e r e wa s a no t h e r t i me , I t h i n k , wh e n 9

s h e wa s h a v i ng - - I wa s bu s y w i t h my ho r s e s , wh e n s h e 10

wa s h a v i ng a p r ob l em w i t h t h e ho r s e t h a t go t t h r e e 11

s ho t s , I b e l i e v e s h e s a i d , y ou k now , i t wa s j u s t 12

s ome t h i ng m i n i ma l . I me a n , I don ' t r ememb e r e x a c t l y 13

wh a t s h e s a i d , b e c a u s e I c a n ' t s a y s h e wa s t a l k i ng t o 14

me . I wa s t h e on l y p e r s on t h e r e bu t I wa s n ' t l oo k i ng 15

a t , a t he r a t t ha t t i me . 16

Ok a y , so i t wa sn ' t any conv e r s a t i on abou t wha t 17 Q .

she wa s do i ng o r t he na t u r e o f he r wo r k? 18

No t w i t h me , no . 19 A .

A l l r i gh t . A f t e r , a f t e r she comp l e t ed t he 20 Q .

f o r ms t ha t you ' r e r e f e r r i ng t o , d i d she l e a v e t he 21

bu i l d i ng wh i l e you we r e t he r e? 22

Sh e d i d . 23 A .

A f t e r she l e f t , wha t d i d you do? 24 Q .

I h a d a bu c k e t o f m i n e , a nd I pu t s ome p a p e r 25 A .

363

t owe l s i n t h e bo t t om o f i t f r om t h e r e s t r oom , we n t o v e r 1

t o t h e t r a s h c a n , t h e r e wa s no t h i ng e l s e i n i t , a nd I 2

r emo v e d e v e r y i t em t h a t wa s i n t h e r e , a nd I pu t i t i n 3

my bu c k e t a nd t h e n I pu t i t i n my c a r a nd I l e f t . 4

Wha t d i d you subs equen t l y do w i t h t he s e i t ems 5 Q .

i n t he buc k e t ? 6

Un t i l I c ou l d g e t a k n i f e t o , t o s e c u r e t h em 7 A .

l i k e t h a t , I h a d k e p t t h em i n a s h e l f o r , we l l , i n a 8

c a b i n e t l i k e on t h e v e r y t op s h e l f wh e r e non e o f - - 9

wh e r e my c h i l d c ou l dn ' t g e t t o t h em . And t h a t wa s 10

ma y b e a bou t a d a y b e f o r e i n my home , b e f o r e I c ou l d g e t 11

t h e t ub e . 12

D i d you spe a k t o anybody abou t wha t you had 13 Q .

ob t a i ned , abou t t he s e i t ems t ha t you ob t a i ned? D i d you 14

adv i s e anybody you had t he s e i t ems? 15

I t a l k e d w i t h Do c t o r L e i gh r i n Ke a r n e y , I d i d 16 A .

s p e a k w i t h h i m . 17

And wha t - - d i d you ha v e any con t a c t s w i t h 18 Q .

anybody abou t t he s e i t ems a f t e r you spok e t o Doc t o r 19

Le i gh r ? 20

Do c t o r L e i gh r h a d a d v i s e d me t o c on t a c t , a nd I 21 A .

b e l i e v e i t wa s a d e n t i s t who wa s a n a t t o r n e y t h a t wa s 22

h a nd l i ng s ome t h i ng s f o r h i m i n r e g a r d t o o t h e r c a s e s , 23

I b e l i e v e , a nd s o I d i d t a l k w i t h h i m . 24

A l l r i gh t . Pe r haps I ' m ge t t i ng ahe ad o f my s e l f 25 Q .

364

he r e , I shou l d a s k you some t h i ng e l s e . You men t i oned 1

t ha t t he r e wa s documen t a t i on t ha t you had - - you 2

men t i oned t ha t you obs e r v ed t ha t t h i s i nd i v i dua l 3

p r epa r ed some documen t a t i on and l e f t i t on a s t oo l ; i s 4



D i d you do any t h i ng - - d i d you l ook a t t ha t 7 Q .

documen t a t i on? 8

I d i d . 9 A .

D i d you do any t h i ng t o r e co r d wha t t ha t 10 Q .

documen t a t i on wa s? 11

I t oo k p i c t u r e s o f t h e do c ume n t s w i t h my c ame r a 12 A .

on my c e l l phone . 13

A l l r i gh t . I ' d l i k e t o show you wha t I ha v e 14 Q .



I do . 17 A .

Wha t i s t ha t , p l e a s e? 18 Q .

Th a t ' s a c op y o f E l i z a b e t h H i l l ' s b i l l . 19 A .

MR . ROLAND : Ob j e c t i on , You r Hono r , t ha t ' s a 20


( BY MR . FROWNFELTER) We l l , wha t , wha t doe s t he 22 Q .

documen t - - 23

THE COURT : Sus t a i ned f o r now , bu t I gue s s you ' r e 24

go i ng t o r e a s k t he que s t i on . I s t ha t wha t you ' r e go i ng 25

365

t o do? 1

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ye s , uh - huh . 2

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t , sus t a i ned . You ma y p r oc e ed . 3

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER) I s t h i s an i mage o f one 4 Q .

o f t he f o r ms t ha t you s aw on t ha t s t oo l ? 5

Ye s . 6 A .

Now i t ' s a r a t he r l ow r e so l u t i on , bu t wha t 7 Q .

p r i n t i ng , wha t w r i t i ng i s i nd i c a t ed on t he p i c t u r e t ha t 8

you ha v e t he r e? 9

As f a r a s t he da t e , June 10 t h o f ' 09 , E l i z abe t h 10 A .

H i l l , t he ho r s e i s Be l l a . 11

June 10 t h . I t wa s June 10 t h? 12 Q .

I b e l i e v e t ha t ' s wha t i t s a y s . 13 A .

I s t ha t t he da t e on wh i ch you t ook t h i s 14 Q .

p i c t u r e? 15

Ye s .16 A .

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , I ' m go i ng t o ob j e c t and 17

a s k f o r wha t pu r pos e t he s e a r e be i ng p r e s en t ed t o t he 18

w i t ne s s , i f no t t o p r ov e t he t r u t h o f t he ma t t e r s 19

a s s e r t ed . 20

MR . FROWNFELTER : The w i t ne s s ' t e s t i mony shows t ha t 21

t he i nd i v i dua l whom she ha s i den t i f i ed and whom had 22

be en i den t i f i ed t o he r a s B r ook e G r a y , p r epa r ed a 23

s e r i e s o f documen t a t i on a s t o t he ho r s e s t ha t she had 24

pe r f o r med and l e f t t he s e i n a , a p l a c e t ha t t he w i t ne s s 25

366

had a c c e s s t o . 1

The w i t ne s s t ook p i c t u r e s o f t he documen t a t i on , and 2

I ' m a s k i ng he r t o i den t i f y t he documen t s . We w i l l - - 3

we do i n f a c t ha v e a depos i t i on f r om Ms . H i l l i n wh i ch 4

t he o r i g i na l o f t ha t v e r y documen t i s a t t a ched a s an 5

e xh i b i t . We w i l l be i n t r oduc i ng i t . Th i s i s t o t i e 6

t hos e t wo e v en t s t oge t he r . 7

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , t ha t i s f a c t ua l l y no t 8

t r ue - - 9

THE COURT : Ho l d on . 10

MR . ROLAND : So r r y . 11

THE COURT : A r e t he s e documen t s t ha t we r e a l l eged l y 12

p r epa r ed by Ms . G r a y ; i s t ha t wha t we ' r e t a l k i ng abou t 13

he r e? 14


THE COURT : Ov e r r u l e t he ob j e c t i on . You ma y 16

p r oc e ed . 17


I ' v e ma r k ed a s P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 44 . Wha t i s t ha t , 19

p l e a s e? 20

Th i s i s t h e - - i t s a y s " Equ i n e De n t a l 21 A .

E v a l u a t i on a nd Ma i n t e n a n c e Ch a r t . " And t h i s wa s d a t e d 22

t h e s ame d a y , J un e 10 t h . Th e own e r o f t h e ho r s e wa s 23

Ke i t h Sp e n c e r , a nd t h i s wa s Ca l i e . 24

And t ha t ' s wha t t he w r i t i ng on t ha t documen t 25 Q .

367

i nd i c a t e s ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 1

Ye s . 2 A .

I ' d l i k e t o - - i s t h i s a l so a p i c t u r e t ha t you 3 Q .

t ook w i t h you r c e l l phone c ame r a o f a documen t t ha t wa s 4

l e f t t he r e? 5

Ye s . As a ma t t e r o f f a c t , t h i s i s e v e n t h e 6 A .

ou t l i n e o f t h e s t oo l i t wa s l e f t on . 7

Ye s . The r e i s a , a k i nd o f an a r c on t he t op 8 Q .

o f t ha t i mage w i t h a , wha t appe a r s t o be a wood g r a i n 9

i n i t ; i s t ha t wha t you ' r e r e f e r r i ng t o? 10

Ye s . 11 A .

And wha t i s t ha t a r c i n t ha t wood g r a i n? 12 Q .

Th i s wa s a r ound s t oo l ( w i t n e s s i nd i c a t i ng ) . 13 A .

I s t ha t pa r t o f t he s t oo l on wh i ch t he documen t 14 Q .

wa s r e s t i ng? 15

Ye s . 16 A .


P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 45 . Wha t a r e you ab l e t o 18

a s c e r t a i n abou t t ha t documen t ? 19

A t t h e t op wh e r e i t s a y s B&B Equ i n e De n t i s t r y , 20 A .

t hen i t s a y s , I be l i e v e , " Fough t wo r s e t han Dus t y . " 21

MR . ROLAND : Ob j e c t i on , You r Hono r . Aga i n , i t ' s 22

he a r s a y . And no t on l y t ha t , t he p r e j ud i c i a l i mpa c t f a r 23

ou t we i ghs any p r oba t i v e v a l ue t ha t t h i s documen t ha s . 24

MR . FROWNFELTER : She obs e r v ed t he i nd i v i dua l i n 25

368

que s t i on p r epa r i ng t he s e documen t s and l e a v i ng t hem on 1

t he s t oo l . She t ook an i mage o f t ha t and she ' s r e ad i ng 2

wha t t he documen t s s a y on t hem . Wha t t ha t p r ov e s i s 3

j us t wha t wa s w r i t t en on t he documen t s t ha t we r e l e f t 4

a f t e r t he s e ho r s e s we r e wo r k ed on . 5

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t , i s t h i s , aga i n , a documen t 6

p r epa r ed , a l l eged l y p r epa r ed t ha t she obs e r v ed p r epa r ed 7

by Ms . G r a y?8


THE COURT : I s t ha t wha t you ' r e o f f e r i ng? 10

MR . FROWNFELTER : I don ' t be l i e v e I ' v e o f f e r ed i t 11

y e t bu t - - 12

THE COURT : Th i s i s t he documen t - - aga i n , you 13

i den t i f i ed t he documen t a s No . 45 bu t you d i dn ' t ba c k 14

i t up and s a y , so I gue s s I w i l l sus t a i n t he ob j e c t i on 15

f o r now be c aus e I don ' t know whe t he r t h i s i s pa r t o f 16

t ha t s ame s e t o f documen t s .17

MR . FROWNFELTER : A l l r i gh t . 18

THE COURT : So I ' l l sus t a i n t he ob j e c t i on . 19


( BY MR . FROWNFELTER) Look i ng a t t he documen t 21 Q .

ma r k ed a s 45 , i s t ha t a p i c t u r e o f one o f t he documen t s 22

t ha t wa s l e f t on t ha t s t oo l ? 23

Ye s . 24 A .

I s t ha t a p i c t u r e t ha t you t ook on t he da y t ha t 25 Q .

369

you we r e a t t he s t ud i o , o r a t t he s t ab l e? 1

Ye s . 2 A .


Pe t i t i one r ' s Exh i b i t 46 . I s t ha t an i mage o f one o f 4

t he documen t s t ha t wa s l e f t on t he s t oo l by t he 5

i nd i v i dua l t ha t you ' v e i den t i f i ed a s B r ook e G r a y? 6

Ye s . 7 A .

And d i d you t a k e t ha t i mage on June 10 t h , 2007 8 Q .

when you we r e t he r e? 9

Ye s . 10 A .

To t he e x t en t you ' r e ab l e t o r e ad i t , wha t doe s 11 Q .

t ha t documen t r e f l e c t ?12

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , we con t i nue ou r ob j e c t i on 13

t ha t r e ad i ng t he i n f o r ma t i on on t h i s documen t i s 14

he a r s a y , and i t ' s he a r s a y w i t h i n he a r s a y be c aus e i t ' s a 15

pho t og r aph o f a documen t . 16

MR . FROWNFELTER : I t ' s a pho t og r aph o f t he documen t 17

t ha t she had . And a l l I ' m a s k i ng he r t o do i s i den t i f y 18

wha t wa s on t he , wha t i s i n t he p i c t u r e t ha t she t ook . 19

THE COURT : Ov e r r u l ed . 20

Same d a t e i s on t h e r e . Ke i t h Sp e n c e r , on c e 21 A .

a g a i n , i s t h e own e r . He own e d bo t h Ca l i a nd Du s t y . 22

Th i s on e ' s f o r Du s t y . I t ' s a l s o B&B Equ i n e d e n t i s t r y . 23

I t s a y s , " F ough t me b a d . Lo t s o f d r ug s . " 24

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER) A l l r i gh t , we r e you 25 Q .

370

f am i l i a r w i t h t he - - you men t i oned e a r l i e r i n you r 1

t e s t i mony t ha t t he r e wa s a ho r s e t ha t r e s i s t ed and had 2

t o be i n j e c t ed t h r e e t i me s ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 3


D i d you know t he name and t he owne r o f t ha t 5 Q .

ho r s e? 6

Ke i t h Sp e n c e r . 7 A .

F i na l l y I ' d l i k e t o show you wha t I ' v e ma r k ed 8 Q .

a s P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 47 . Do you r e cogn i z e t ha t 9

documen t ? 10

Ye s . 11 A .

And i s t ha t one o f t he p i c t u r e s t ha t you t ook 12 Q .

i n t ha t when you we r e t a k i ng p i c t u r e s o f t hos e 13

documen t s on June 10 t h , 2007? 14

Ye s . 15 A .

D i d I ge t t he da t e r i gh t . Wa s i t . . . 16 Q .

2009 . 17 A .

Ok a y . I m i gh t ha v e go t t en t he da t e w r ong . 18 Q .

Ok a y . A r e t he s e a l l - - t he y ' r e no t - - I ' v e shown you 19

f i v e p i c t u r e s , bu t t he y ' r e mu l t i p l e p i c t u r e s o f t he 20

s ame documen t s ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 21

Co r r e c t . 22 A .

And g i v en w i t h i n t he v e r y l ow r e so l u t i on o f 23 Q .

t he s e p i c t u r e s , t o you r r e co l l e c t i on do t he s e p i c t u r e s 24

a c cu r a t e l y r e f l e c t wha t wa s on t he documen t s wh i ch you 25

371

e x am i ned? 1

Ye s . 2 A .

A r e you f am i l i a r w i t h E l i z abe t h H i l l ' s ho r s e , 3 Q .

I z on? 4

I am . 5 A .

Wa s t ha t one o f t he ho r s e s t ha t t h i s i nd i v i dua l 6 Q .

t r e a t ed wh i l e she wa s t he r e? 7

I t wa s , a l t hough s h e d i d no t do h i s t e e t h . 8 A .

Pa r don me? 9 Q .

Sh e d i d no t f l o a t h i s t e e t h , I don ' t b e l i e v e . 10 A .

I b e l i e v e , i f I r ememb e r c o r r e c t l y , b e c a u s e s h e d i d 11

Be l l a ' s t e e t h , wh i c h b e h e r d a ugh t e r Ka t e ' s ho r s e . 12

Ex cus e me , Be l l a . We r e you f am i l i a r w i t h t he 13 Q .

ho r s e , Be l l a?14

I wa s . 15 A .

And i s Be l l a one o f t he ho r s e s t ha t you 16 Q .

obs e r v ed he r t r e a t i ng? 17

Ye s . I do b e l i e v e s h e b r ough t I z on ou t a l s o , 18 A .

bu t s h e d i dn ' t do h i s t e e t h . 19

MR . FROWNFELTER : A l l r i gh t , a t t h i s po i n t I wou l d 20

l i k e t o o f f e r i n t o e v i denc e Exh i b i t s , P l a i n t i f f ' s 21

Exh i b i t 43 . 22

( P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 43 wa s o f f e r ed i n t o 23

Ev i denc e . ) 24

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , we ' r e go i ng t o ha v e t he 25

372

s ame ob j e c t i on f o r e a ch one o f t he s e documen t s . The y 1

a r e he a r s a y w i t h i n he a r s a y , and i f t he y ' r e adm i t t ed a t 2

a l l i t c an on l y be f o r t he pu r pos e o f show i ng t ha t 3

t he r e ma y ha v e be en documen t s t ha t da y , no t f o r p r ov i ng 4

any o f t he i n f o r ma t i on t ha t m i gh t be con t a i ned on t hos e 5

documen t s . 6

MR . FROWNFELTER : We a r e o f f e r i ng t he documen t s 7

e s s en t i a l l y a s a pa r t y adm i s s i on . The i nd i v i dua l who ' s 8

be en i den t i f i ed a s B r ook e G r a y pe r f o r med s e r v i c e s on 9

t wo ho r s e s wh i ch Ms . Wy co f f r e cogn i z e s . She obs e r v ed 10

he r pe r f o r m i ng s e r v i c e s on t hos e t wo ho r s e s . She 11

obs e r v ed t he i nd i v i dua l pe r f o r m t he s e r v i c e p r epa r e 12

t he s e documen t s , and t hen she t ook p i c t u r e s o f t he 13

documen t s t ha t we r e p r epa r ed and l e f t by t ha t 14

i nd i v i dua l . 15

I n t ha t s ens e t he s e a r e w r i t t en pa r t y adm i s s i ons a s 16

t o t he s e r v i c e s t ha t we r e pe r f o r med on t hos e c a s e s . 17

The r e a r e l i m i t s t o wha t i n f o r ma t i on c an be de r i v ed 18

f r om t hem be c aus e t he y ' r e l ow r e so l u t i on and pa r t i a l 19

i mage s , bu t t ha t , I t h i nk , goe s t o we i gh t r a t he r t han 20

adm i s s i b i l i t y . I t h i nk t he s e come i n unde r an 21

e x c ep t i on t o t he he a r s a y r u l e f o r pa r t y adm i s s i ons . 22

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , r e spond i ng t o t he i de a 23

t ha t t he s e a r e pa r t y adm i s s i ons , we wou l d a l so r eg i s t e r 24

t ha t t he pho t og r aphs t hems e l v e s do no t cov e r t he en t i r e 25

373

documen t s t ha t t he y c l a i m t o pho t og r aph and so t he y 1

shou l d no t be a c c ep t ed be c aus e t he y don ' t t e l l t he 2

who l e s t o r y , e v en i f any i n f o r ma t i on con t a i ned i n t hem 3

cou l d be us ed a s a pa r t y a t adm i s s i on , wh i ch hone s t l y , 4

I wou l d ma i n t a i n ou r ob j e c t i on t ha t t he y c anno t be 5

cons i de r ed a pa r t y adm i s s i on a l t hough I ' m no t up on t he 6

mos t cu r r en t c a s e l aw abou t t o whom an adm i s s i on mus t 7

be made i n o r de r f o r i t t o be adm i s s i b l e . 8

MR . FROWNFELTER : I t h i nk t ha t conc e r n goe s t o t he 9

we i gh t r a t he r t han t he adm i s s i b i l i t y . The w i t ne s s t ook 10

p i c t u r e s w i t h i n t he l i m i t s o f t he t e chno l ogy she had 11

a v a i l ab l e t o he r , and f o r wha t e v e r p r oba t i v e v a l ue t he 12

i mage s ha v e , I be l i e v e t he y ' r e adm i s s i b l e a s a pa r t y 13

adm i s s i on . 14

THE COURT : P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t s 43 t h r ough 47 , i s 15

t ha t r i gh t , w i l l be adm i t t ed .16



( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) D i d you t r ansm i t t he s e 19 Q .

i mage s t o Doc t o r Le i gh r ? 20

No . 21 A .

Who d i d you t r ansm i t t hem t o? 22 Q .

G r e go r y De nn i s . 23 A .

And had M r . Denn i s be en i den t i f i ed t o you a s 24 Q .

ha v i ng a r e l a t i onsh i p w i t h Doc t o r Le i gh r ? 25

374

Ye s . He wa s a n a t t o r n e y t h a t wa s d e a l i ng w i t h 1 A .

s ome o f t h e s e i s s u e s . 2

I ' d l i k e t o c a l l you r a t t en t i on t o t he 3 Q .

documen t s - - t he ob j e c t s on t he t ab l e i n f r on t o f you . 4

I ' d l i k e you t o e x am i n e wha t we ha v e ma r k ed a s 5

Exh i b i t 39 . Do you r e cogn i z e t ha t documen t , o r t ha t 6

ob j e c t ? 7

Ye s , I do . 8 A .

Wha t i s t ha t ob j e c t ? 9 Q .

I t wa s t h e bo t t l e t h a t I ob s e r v e d Ms . G r a y 10 A .

t a k i ng me d i c a t i on ou t o f , pu t t i ng i t i n s y r i ng e s , a nd 11

t h e n go i ng o v e r , i n j e c t i ng t h e ho r s e s w i t h . Th e n wh e n 12

s h e wa s c omp l e t e d w i t h e v e r y t h i ng wh e r e t h a t wa s , s h e 13

t oo k i t o v e r a nd d i s po s e d o f i t i n t h e t r a s h c a n t h a t 14

a n y on e , y ou k now , t h a t wou l d h a v e b e e n t h e r e , a n y c h i l d 15

o r a n y t h i ng c ou l d h a v e go t t e n i n t o , i f i t wou l d h a v e 16

b e e n l e f t t h e r e . 17

I wou l d l i k e t o show you wha t ha s be en ma r k ed 18 Q .

a s Exh i b i t 40 . Do you r e cogn i z e t hos e ob j e c t s? 19

Tho s e a r e t h e s y r i ng e s a nd t h e n e e d l e s a s I 20 A .

f ound t h em i n t h e t r a s h c a n a s we l l . I me a n , t h e y we r e 21

a l l s e p a r a t e a nd t h e n I pu t t h em i n a b a g l a t e r . 22

Be t we en t he t i me you r e t r i e v ed a bo t t l e , 23 Q .

ne ed l e s and s y r i nge s f r om t he t r a sh c an , and t he t i me 24

t ha t you ga v e - - I ' m t r y i ng t o t h i nk whe t he r I e l i c i t ed 25

375

t he t e s t i mony . A l l r i gh t . 1

A f t e r you t ook pos s e s s i on o f t hos e , wha t - - d i d 2

you g i v e t hos e ob j e c t s t o anybody e l s e? 3

Th e on l y p e r s on I e v e n t u a l l y g a v e t h em t o 4 A .

M r . Ra f f l ema n ( phon e t i c ) . O t h e r t h a n t h a t , no , no on e 5

e l s e . 6

Ok a y . D i d anybody - - be t we en t he t i me - - i s i t 7 Q .

M r . Bu r t on who you ga v e t hos e ob j e c t s t o? 8

Bu r t on , s o r r y . 9 A .

Be t we en t he t i me you co l l e c t ed t hos e f r om t he 10 Q .

t r a sh c an and t he t i me you ga v e t hem t o M r . Bu r t on , d i d 11

anybody e l s e ha v e pos s e s s i on o f t hos e i t ems? 12

No . 13 A .

I ' d l i k e you t o e x am i ne wha t ha s be en ma r k ed a s 14 Q .

Exh i b i t 41 . Do you r e cogn i z e t ha t documen t ? Re cogn i z e 15

t ha t ob j e c t ? 16

I do . 17 A .

Wha t i s t ha t , p l e a s e? 18 Q .

Th a t ' s t h e k n i f e t ub e t h a t I k e p t a l l o f t h a t 19 A .

i n . 20

D i d you p l a c e t he ob j e c t s t ha t ha v e be en ma r k ed 21 Q .

Exh i b i t s 40 - - 39 and 40 i n t o t ha t t ube? 22

I d i d . 23 A .

When d i d you p l a c e t hem i n t he t ube? 24 Q .

I t wa s p r ob a b l y , I t h i n k i t wa s a d a y a f t e r , s o 25 A .

376

i t p r ob a b l y wou l d h a v e b e e n t h e 11 t h . I o f f i c i a l l y , a t 1

l e a s t t e c hn i c a l l y r e c o v e r e d t h em on t h e 10 t h , bu t t oo k 2

po s s e s s i on o f t h em . 3

A l l r i gh t , t he r e ' s some w r i t i ng on t he t ube ; 4 Q .

wou l d you t e l l us wha t t ha t w r i t i ng i s , p l e a s e? 5

My h a ndw r i t i ng s a y s " r e c o v e r e d 6 / 10 / 2009 . " And 6 A .

t h e n I d a t e d i t w i t h my i n i t i a l s . I t s a y s " MHW , 7

4 / 5 / 2010 , " t h a t wa s t h e d a t e t h a t I h a nd e d i t t o 8

M r . Bu r t on . 9

A l l r i gh t . And d i d anybody e l s e ha v e 10 Q .

pos s e s s i on o f t hos e i t ems be t we en t he t i me t ha t you 11

r e t r i e v ed t hem and t he t i me you ga v e t hem t o 12

M r . Bu r t on? 13

No . 14 A .

Do t hos e - - wha t had be en ma r k ed a s Exh i b i t s 39 15 Q .

and 40 appe a r t o be t he s ame a s t he i t ems t ha t you 16

r e t r i e v ed f r om t he t r a sh c an a t t he s t ab l e? 17

Ye s . 18 A .

A t t h i s po i n t I wou l d l i k e t o o f f e r i n t o 19 Q .

e v i denc e wha t ha s be en ma r k ed a s Pe t i t i one r ' s 20

Exh i b i t 39 .21


e v i denc e . ) 23

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , we ob j e c t be c aus e t he 24

cha i n o f cus t ody ha s no t be en e s t ab l i shed . Unde r 25

377

M i s sou r i l aw i n a c i v i l c a s e , cha i n o f cus t ody i s he l d 1

t o t he s ame s t anda r d a s i n a c r i m i n a l c a s e . The r e a r e 2

e no r mou s g a p s i n t h e c h a i n o f c u s t od y . Th e s e i t ems 3

we r e pu r po r t ed l y no t k ep t i n s e cu r ed a r e a s . The y we r e 4

open f o r t ampe r i ng . The y we r e no t s e a l ed . The r e ha s 5

be en t e s t i mony by t he pe r son who f i r s t b r ough t t he s e 6

i t ems i n t o t he cou r t r oom t ha t t he r e wa s no w r i t i ng on 7

t he t ube a t t he t i me t ha t he t ook i t i n t o h i s 8

pos s e s s i on . On l y now t he r e i s w r i t i ng . The r e a r e 9

eno r mous gaps i n t h i s e v i denc e and shou l d no t be 10

adm i t t ed . 11

MR . FROWNFELTER : You r Hono r , we e s t ab l i shed a 12

comp l e t e cha i n o f cus t ody f r om t he momen t t ha t t he s e 13

i t ems we r e t a k en ou t o f t he t r a sh c an r i gh t up t o t he 14

momen t t ha t t he t ube wa s opened and t he i t ems we r e 15

d i sp l a y ed i n t h i s cou r t r oom . 16

The w i t n e s s ha s e s t ab l i shed t ha t t he y we r e no t i n 17

t he pos s e s s i on o f o r t ha t anyone knows t ha t t he y we r e 18

no t e v en s e en by anybody o t he r t han t he t wo w i t ne s s e s 19

who had cus t ody o f t hem . Fu r t he r mo r e , bo t h w i t ne s s e s 20

i den t i f i ed t he ob j e c t s a s be i ng t he s ame ob j e c t s t ha t 21

t he y had bo t h a t t he beg i nn i ng and t he end o f t he i r 22

r e spe c t i v e cus t ody o f t he i t ems . So t he cha i n o f 23

cus t ody ha s be en e s t ab l i shed and i s comp l e t e . 24

THE COURT : P l a i n t i f f ' s 39 w i l l b e adm i t t ed .25

378


e v i denc e . )2

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ' d a l so l i k e t o o f f e r i n t o 3

e v i denc e wha t ha s be en ma r k ed a s Exh i b i t No . 40 .4


e v i denc e . ) 6

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , we o f f e r t he s ame 7

ob j e c t i on . 8

THE COURT : Same a r gumen t s f r om - - 9

MR . FROWNFELTER : Same a r gumen t s . 10

THE COURT : 40 w i l l b e adm i t t ed a s we l l .11


e v i denc e . )13

MR . FROWNFELTER : And I wou l d l i k e t o o f f e r i n t o 14

e v i denc e wha t ha s be en ma r k ed a s Exh i b i t 41 .15


e v i denc e . ) 17

MR . ROLAND : And we o f f e r t he s ame cha i n o f cus t ody 18

ob j e c t i on . 19

THE COURT : Tha t w i l l b e ov e r r u l ed . 39 , 40 and 41 20



e v i denc e . )23

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) Ms . Wy co f f , you ' v e 24 Q .

t e s t i f i ed t ha t you ' v e be en a ho r s e owne r f o r 31 y e a r s ; 25

379



Ha v e you e v e r had any d i f f i cu l t y ob t a i n i ng 3 Q .

s e r v i c e s , somebody , f i nd i ng somebody who i s ab l e t o 4

f l o a t y ou r ho r s e ' s t e e t h?5

Ne v e r . 6 A .

Ha v e you e v e r had any d i f f i cu l t y f i nd i ng a 7 Q .

v e t e r i na r i an who wa s w i l l i ng , a v a i l ab l e , and had t he 8

t i me t o f l oa t you r ho r s e ' s t e e t h? 9

Ne v e r .10 A .



13


BY MR . ROLAND :15

Ms . Wy co f f , i s i t d i f f i cu l t f o r a ho r s e owne r 16 Q .

t o ob t a i n me d i c a t i on s f o r t h e i r a n i ma l s ? 17

Wh a t t y p e s o f me d i c a t i on a r e y ou r e f e r r i ng t o? 18 A .

An y t y p e s o f me d i c a t i on . Ge n e r a l l y i s i t 19 Q .

d i f f i cu l t ? 20

MR . FROWNFLETER : Ob j e c t i on , I t h i nk f o r a 21

f ounda t i on f o r t ha t you ' d ha v e t o e s t ab l i sh t ha t she 22

had made an e f f o r t o r t ha t she had know l edge o f wha t 23

med i c a t i ons , pa r t i cu l a r l y wha t med i c a t i ons he ' s t a l k i ng 24

a bou t a nd wh e t h e r s h e h a d t r i e d o r h a d a n y , ma d e a n y 25

380

e f f o r t t o a cqu i r e such med i c a t i ons he r s e l f . 1


( BY MR . ROLAND) So i s i t d i f f i cu l t , gene r a l l y , 3 Q .

f o r a ho r s e owne r t o ob t a i n med i c a t i ons f o r t he i r 4

an i ma l s? 5

I ' v e n e v e r go t t e n me d i c a t i on f o r my a n i ma l 6 A .

a n y p l a c e o t h e r t h a n t h e v e t e r i n a r i a n , s o I gu e s s my 7

a n swe r wou l d b e no . 8

Ok a y . So you c an ge t you r med i c a t i ons f r om a 9 Q .


( W i t n e s s nod s h e a d up a nd down . )11 A .

Ok a y . 12 Q .

THE COURT : You ha v e t o answe r aud i b l y . 13

Ye s . 14 A .

( BY MR . ROLAND ) Can you a l so ge t s eda t i v e s 15 Q .

f r om a v e t e r i na r i an? 16

I ' m a s s um i ng y ou c a n . Th a t wou l d b e t h e on l y 17 A .

p e r s on I wou l d g e t t h em f r om . 18

Ok a y . I n you r 31 y e a r s a s a ho r s e owne r , ha v e 19 Q .

you e v e r ob t a i ned s eda t i v e s f r om a v e t e r i na r i an? 20

No , I h a v e n e v e r g i v e n a n a n i ma l a s e d a t i v e , 21 A .

n e v e r b y my s e l f . 22

Ha v e you e v e r ob t a i ned s eda t i v e s f o r t he 23 Q .

pu r pos e o f someone e l s e t o us e? 24

No . 25 A .

381

A r e you awa r e o f o t he r ho r s e owne r s who ha v e 1 Q .

done t ha t ? 2

I ' m s u r e t h e r e a r e . I h a v e - - p e op l e k now how 3 A .

I f e e l a bou t t ho s e t y p e s o f t h i ng s , a nd t h e y don ' t do 4

t h a t a r ound me . So , I - - i f t h e y ' r e do i ng i t , i t ' s no t 5

b r o a d c a s t . 6

You ' r e awa r e t ha t - - we l l , I ' m no t su r e wha t 7 Q .

you me an when you s a y , how you f e e l abou t t hos e so r t s 8

o f t h i ngs . Wha t so r t s o f t h i ngs a r e you r e f e r r i ng t o 9

when you s a y t ha t ? 10

I ' m no t go i ng t o - - t h e wa y I wo r k a r ound my 11 A .

a n i ma l s a nd s t u f f , I ' m no t c om f o r t a b l e g i v i ng a n a n i ma l 12

a s e d a t i v e . I f t h e do c t o r wa n t s t o p r e s c r i b e i t t o my 13

a n i ma l , t h a t ' s f i n e , I ' m no t go i ng t o do t h a t . Wh a t 14

o t h e r p e op l e do , y ou k now , t h e y f e e l c om f o r t a b l e g i v i ng 15

t h e i r a n i ma l a s e d a t i v e , I gu e s s t h a t ' s on t h em . Bu t 16

wh a t - - t h e y k now t h a t - - I ' m j u s t , I ' m no t c om f o r t a b l e 17

w i t h t h a t . You go t h r ough a v e t e r i n a r i a n f o r 18

e v e r y t h i ng . 19

Bu t you j us t t e s t i f i ed t ha t you c an ge t 20 Q .

s eda t i v e s f r om a v e t e r i na r i an . 21

You c a n f o r y ou r own a n i ma l . 22 A .

R i gh t . 23 Q .

Uh - huh .24 A .

So you ' r e s t i l l sque am i sh abou t ho r s e owne r s 25 Q .

382

us i ng s eda t i v e s t ha t t he y ' v e ob t a i ned f r om 1

v e t e r i na r i ans f o r t he i r own us e? 2

I f t h a t ' s wh a t t h e y wa n t t o do w i t h t h e i r 3 A .

a n i ma l s , t h e n t h a t - - mo r e powe r t o t h em . I f t h e y ' r e 4

go i ng t o go a h e a d - - I me a n , y ou c a n do a n y t h i ng t o 5

y ou r own a n i ma l t h a t y ou c hoo s e t o . 6

A t you r depos i t i on we t a l k ed abou t a numbe r o f 7 Q .

d i f f e r en t v e t e r i na r i ans . 8

Uh - huh . 9 A .

Toda y you ' v e a l r e ady men t i oned Doc t o r J a c k son . 10 Q .

I be l i e v e we a l so t a l k ed abou t Doc t o r Le i gh r . A t ou r 11

depos i t i on we a l so t a l k ed abou t you r r e l a t i onsh i ps w i t h 12

Doc t o r B r i sbon , Doc t o r Wagne r and Doc t o r Co r t e , I t h i nk 13

i t wa s ; i s t h a t c o r r e c t ? 14

Co r r e c t . 15 A .

Ok a y . And you ' v e a s s i s t ed v e t e r i na r i ans 16 Q .

be f o r e , ha v en ' t you , i n wo r k i ng w i t h d i f f e r en t ho r s e s? 17

Ye s , a s f a r a s , I me a n , ho l d i ng t h e a n i ma l s , 18 A .

y e s , i f t h a t ' s wh a t y ou me a n b y a s s i s t i ng . 19

Ha s i t a l wa y s be en one o f t hos e f i v e 20 Q .

v e t e r i na r i ans t ha t we ' v e a l r e ady named o r ha v e t he r e 21

be en mo r e v e t e r i na r i ans t ha t you ' v e wo r k ed w i t h? 22

I c a n ' t t h i n k o f a n y o t h e r v e t e r i n a r i a n s t h a t 23 A .

I ' v e h e l d ho r s e s f o r un l e s s i t wa s , y ou k now , a t a 24

ho r s e s how o r s ome t h i ng l i k e t h a t y e a r s a go . 25

383

So wa s i t one o f t he s e v e t e r i na r i ans t ha t you 1 Q .

wou l d he l p ou t w i t h a t t he r e s cue r anch , o r i s t ha t t he 2

name o f t he f a c i l i t y? 3

Do c t o r J a c k s on c ame ou t t h e r e . 4 A .

And you ' v e a l so a s s i s t ed f a r r i e r s ; co r r e c t ? 5 Q .

Wh e n y ou me a n a s s i s t i ng , c a n y ou c l a r i f y 6 A .

a s s i s t i ng? 7

I n t he s ens e t ha t you s a i d i n you r depos i t i on , 8 Q .

t ha t you ' v e a s s i s t ed v e t e r i na r i ans and f a r r i e r s i n 9

p r ov i d i ng v e t e r i na r y c a r e f o r ho r s e s . 10

Ok a y . We l l , I me a n , I gu e s s wh e r e I ' m 11 A .

r e f e r r i ng t o a s s i s t i ng i s I ' m s t a nd i ng t h e r e a nd 12

ho l d i ng . I ' m no t do i ng a n y t h i ng o t h e r t h a n s t a nd i ng 13

t h e r e a nd ho l d i ng . I m i gh t ho l d a bu c k e t o r s ome t h i ng , 14

o r s ome t h i ng f o r t h e v e t e r i n a r i a n , bu t t h a t ' s my . . . 15

Jus t t o be c l e a r , i n you r depos i t i on I a s k ed 16 Q .

t he que s t i on , " Wha t k i nd o f a c t i v i t i e s d i d you do w i t h 17

t he r e s cue s e r v i c e? " And you r e sponded , " I he l ped t o 18

t a k e c a r e o f t he ho r s e s , t he i r e v e r yda y c a r e , 19

v e t e r i na r y c a r e , a l ong w i t h wo r k i ng w i t h t he 20

v e t e r i na r i ans , ma k i ng su r e t ha t w i t h t he f a r r i e r s , 21

ma k i ng su r e t ha t t he i r hoov e s we r e t r i mmed , and , 22

r e a l l y , any t h i ng wo r k i ng w i t h t he an i ma l s , ma k i ng su r e 23

t h e y we r e , i f t h e y we r e r e a d y t o b e r i dd e n , y ou k now , 24

e x e r c i s e r i dden , some o f t hem we r e us ed i n a l e s son 25

384

p r og r am , j u s t de s ens i t i z i ng t hem o r s e v e r a l d i f f e r en t 1

t h i ngs . " Doe s t ha t sound l i k e a co r r e c t r e co l l e c t i on? 2

R i gh t . 3 A .

Ok a y . D i d you s i gn you r depos i t i on? I c an ' t 4 Q .

r emembe r i f you a s k ed t o . . . 5

I ' m no t s u r e i f I d i d t h a t . I don ' t t h i n k I 6 A .

h a v e y e t . 7

Ok a y . 8 Q .

Bu t a s f a r a s a s s i s t i ng , y e s , I me a n , I ma d e 9 A .

s u r e t h a t t h e ho r s e s we r e s c h e du l e d f o r t h e i r hoo v e s t o 10

b e t r i mme d e v e r y 6 t o 8 we e k s w i t h t h e f a r r i e r a nd 11

s t ood t h e r e a nd h e l d t h e ho r s e s s o t h a t . . . 12

Why e v e r y 6 t o 8 we e k s? 13 Q .

Th a t ' s wh a t t h e y r e c omme nd e d , t h a t ' s wh a t we 14 A .

d i d . J u s t k e p t t h em on a s c h e du l e . 15

Who r e commended? 16 Q .

Th e f a r r i e r . 17 A .

Ok a y . Wa s t he v e t e r i na r i an awa r e o f t he 18 Q .

f a r r i e r ma k i ng t h i s r e commenda t i on? 19


How f r equen t l y wa s Doc t o r J a c k son p r e s en t when 21 Q .

you we r e a s s i s t i ng t he f a r r i e r s? 22

Ne v e r . 23 A .

So t he y we r e do i ng t h i s wo r k w i t hou t any 24 Q .

v e t e r i na r y obs e r v a t i on? 25

385


Wa s Doc t o r J a c k son awa r e t ha t t he y wou l d ma k e 2 Q .

t he s e r e commenda t i ons? 3

I do no t k now . 4 A .

I s i t you r t e s t i mony t ha t Doc t o r J a c k son wa s 5 Q .

ne v e r p r e s en t when a f a r r i e r wa s wo r k i ng on ho r s e s a t 6

t he r anch? 7

I don ' t k now i f h e wa s e v e r p r e s e n t wh e n I wa s 8 A .

p r e s e n t . I do no t r e c a l l Do c t o r J a c k s on e v e r b e i ng 9

t h e r e a t t h e s ame t i me . Th a t do e s no t me a n t h a t h e 10

n e v e r wa s . I c a nno t s p e a k - - I c a n on l y s p e a k f o r wh a t 11

I s aw . 12

I n 31 y e a r s o f ho r s e owne r sh i p , you ' v e spen t a 13 Q .

l o t o f t i me t a l k i ng t o o t he r ho r s e owne r s , ha v en ' t you? 14

Ye s . 15 A .

And we ' v e e s t ab l i shed t ha t you ' v e i n t e r a c t ed 16 Q .

w i t h a numbe r o f d i f f e r en t v e t e r i na r i ans ; co r r e c t ? 17

Co r r e c t . 18 A .

I n 31 y e a r s ha v e you e v e r pe r sona l l y known a 19 Q .

ho r s e t o d i e f r om t he us e o f s eda t i v e s? 20

Ye s . 21 A .

And on wha t oc c a s i on wa s t ha t ? 22 Q .

I wa n t t o s a y I wa s a r ound 10 o r 11 y e a r s o l d . 23 A .

And who adm i n i s t e r ed t hos e s eda t i v e s? 24 Q .

Th a t wa s Do c t o r L a r r y Ko v a c .25 A .

386

Ok a y . 1 Q .

THE COURT REPORTER : Kov a c? 2

THE W I TNESS : Uh - huh . Ye s . 3

( BY MR . ROLAND ) Wa s he wo r k i ng on one o f you r 4 Q .

ho r s e s? 5

No . 6 A .

One o f you r pa r en t s ' ho r s e s? 7 Q .

No . 8 A .

I s t ha t t he on l y e x amp l e you c an r emembe r ? 9 Q .

( W i t n e s s nod s h e a d up a nd down . ) 10 A .

I n 31 y e a r s o f de a l i ng w i t h ho r s e s you ' v e s e en 11 Q .

t oo t h f l oa t i ng many t i me s ; co r r e c t ? 12

Co r r e c t . 13 A .

Bu t you ' v e ne v e r pe r sona l l y s e en damage done t o 14 Q .

an an i ma l a s a r e su l t o f f l o a t i ng , ha v e you? 15

I ' m no t s u r e I wou l d k now wh a t d ama g e l oo k e d 16 A .

l i k e , t o b e qu i t e hon e s t , i f i t wa s don e , s o I n e v e r 17

go t i n t h e r e a nd l oo k e d a t t h e , t h e ho r s e s ' t e e t h . 18

On Page 26 o f you r depos i t i on I a s k ed you 19 Q .

s e v e r a l que s t i ons abou t t oo t h f l oa t i ng . You s a i d t ha t 20

you ' r e awa r e t ha t t oo t h f l oa t i ng c an oc cu r w i t hou t 21

s eda t i on ; co r r e c t ? 22

Co r r e c t . 23 A .

I a s k ed t he que s t i on , " Ha v e you e v e r obs e r v ed 24 Q .

an i n j u r y t o a ho r s e a s a r e su l t o f t e e t h f l oa t i ng? " 25

387

You answe r ed , " I ' v e obs e r v ed , you know , ho r s e s mov e and 1

t he f i l e ma ybe ge t t he i r gum o r some t h i ng l i k e t ha t , 2

y e s . " I f o l l owed up , s a y i ng , " I ' m t a l k i ng abou t i n j u r y 3

no t d i s com f o r t . I ' m t a l k i ng abou t a c t ua l damage done 4

t o t he an i ma l . " And you r e sponded , " No t t ha t I c an 5

r e c a l l spe c i f i c a l l y . " I s t ha t co r r e c t ? 6


I t hen a s k ed , " Ha v e you e v e r he a r d f r om o t he r s 8 Q .

abou t i n j u r i e s c aus ed by t oo t h f l oa t i ng? " And you 9

r e sponded , " No t t ha t I c an r e c a l l . " I s t ha t co r r e c t ? 10

Co r r e c t . 11 A .

And t hen I made su r e , " Th i s cov e r s 30 p l us 12 Q .

y e a r s o f ho r s e owne r sh i p . " And you s a i d " Ye s . " I s 13


Co r r e c t . 15 A .

I n t a l k i ng w i t h v e t e r i na r i ans , you ' v e he a r d 16 Q .

t hem e xp r e s s conc e r n t ha t non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r s 17

cha r ge l e s s t han t he y do , ha v en ' t you? 18

Ye s . I gu e s s t h a t ' s on e . 19 A .

And i t ' s c l e a r t ha t a t l e a s t s e v e r a l o f t he s e 20 Q .

v e t e r i na r i ans r e a l l y don ' t l i k e t he i de a o f 21

non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r s ; r i gh t ? 22

I c a n ' t s a y t h a t i t ' s - - I c a n ' t a n swe r t h a t 23 A .

qu e s t i on t o s a y t h e y don ' t l i k e t h e i d e a o f t h a t 24

t h e y ' r e no t a v e t e r i n a r i a n . Th e y don ' t l i k e t h e i d e a 25

388

o f s ome on e i n j e c t i ng a n i ma l s w i t h a d r ug t h a t t h e y 1

a r e n ' t l e g a l l y s uppo s e d t o h a v e , don ' t h a v e i n s u r a n c e 2

t o h a v e i t , a nd i f s ome on e ' s ho r s e - - y ou k now , t h e r e ' s 3

no l i a b i l i t y . Th a t ' s t h e p a r t , y ou k now , t h e y h a v e t o 4

h a v e i n s u r a n c e , wh y s hou l dn ' t s h e ? 5

So i s i t you r t e s t i mony t ha t t he y don ' t m i nd 6 Q .

t he i de a o f someone f l oa t i ng t e e t h? 7

I don ' t k now . I c a n ' t , I c a n ' t , I c a n ' t a n swe r 8 A .

wh a t t h e y t h i n k a nd wh a t t h e y don ' t t h i n k . 9

Bu t you ' v e had conv e r s a t i ons w i t h v e t e r i na r i ans 10 Q .

abou t t h i s? 11

I h a d c on v e r s a t i on s bu t - - 12 A .

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ' m go i ng t o ob j e c t a t t h i s 13

po i n t - - 14

- - I c a n ' t a n swe r wh a t t h e y t h i n k . 15 A .

THE COURT : Hang on j us t a momen t . So r r y . 16

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ' m go i ng t o ob j e c t t ha t he r 17

r epo r t s o f conv e r s a t i on she ' s had w i t h v e t e r i na r i ans a s 18

e v i denc e o f wha t t he v e t e r i na r i ans t h i nk i s he a r s a y . 19

THE COURT : Sus t a i ned .20

( BY MR . ROLAND) I n f a c t , you ' v e d i s cus s ed w i t h 21 Q .

v e t e r i na r i ans you r i nv e s t i ga t i on o f wha t wa s t a k i ng 22

p l a c e a t Ms . H i l l ' s f a c i l i t y , ha v en ' t you? 23

No t , no t r e a l l y . 24 A .

We l l you ' v e a l r e ady t e s t i f i ed t ha t you spok e t o 25 Q .

389

Doc t o r Le i gh r abou t i t ? 1

Oh , we l l , I me a n , y e s , bu t i t wa s n ' t a v e r y - - 2 A .

I don ' t r e a l l y e v e n - - I s a i d wh a t I h a d s e e n a nd I 3

n e e d e d t o t a l k w i t h h i m , a nd t h a t wa s , t h a t wa s i t . 4

I ' v e s e e n h i m on e o t h e r t i me . 5

Now you ' v e spok en t o Doc t o r J a c k son abou t i t , 6 Q .

t oo , ha v en ' t you? 7

I d i d s p e a k w i t h h i m on c e . I t wa s a v e r y b r i e f 8 A .

c on v e r s a t i on . 9

A t you r depos i t i on I a s k ed you t o de s c r i be you r 10 Q .

me e t i ng w i t h t he pe r son you encoun t e r ed on June 10 t h a t 11

t he H i l l f a c i l i t y . And you r e sponded , " I wou l dn ' t 12

ne c e s s a r i l y c a l l i t a me e t i ng . I had my ho r s e s t he r e . 13

I had t a k en my ho r s e s ou t o f t he s t a l l . The y we r e on 14

c r os s t i e s a r e a l i k e t he wa sh r ag a r e a , and I wa s 15

t r i mm i ng t hem and g r oom i ng t hem . I d i dn ' t ha v e any 16

d i r e c t con t a c t o r conv e r s a t i on w i t h he r . " I sn ' t t ha t 17

co r r e c t ? 18

Co r r e c t . Th a t ' s wh a t I s a i d . 19 A .

I f o l l owed up and I s a i d , " So you d i dn ' t ha v e 20 Q .

d i r e c t con t a c t o r conv e r s a t i on? I be l i e v e you 21

p r e v i ous l y s a i d you d i d no t i n t r oduc e you r s e l f . " And 22

you r e sponded , " No t t ha t I r emembe r . " 23

No t t h a t I r ememb e r . I wa s no t i n i t i a t i ng 24 A .

c on v e r s a t i on w i t h h e r , no . 25

390

Bu t a l l o f a sudden , t oda y , you r emembe r 1 Q .

t a l k i ng t o he r , o r a t l e a s t you t e s t i f i ed t o t ha t ; 2

co r r e c t ? 3

Sh e s po k e t o me . I wa s no t i n a c on v e r s a t i on 4 A .

w i t h h e r . 5

So when you he a r t he que s t i on abou t whe t he r you 6 Q .

had d i r e c t con t a c t o r conv e r s a t i on , you don ' t t h i nk 7

t ha t t ha t oc cu r s i f someone e l s e t a l k s t o you? 8

I gu e s s t e c hn i c a l l y t h e n I wa s w r ong i n my 9 A .

d e po s i t i on . 10

I a s k ed , " Do you r e c a l l he r i n t r oduc i ng he r s e l f 11 Q .

t o you? " You s a i d , " No . She ma y ha v e . I f she d i d I 12

don ' t r e c a l l . " I s t ha t co r r e c t ? 13

Co r r e c t . 14 A .

" And so she ne v e r s a i d t o you , I am B r ook e 15 Q .

G r a y? " And you r e sponded , " No t t ha t I know o f . She 16

wou l dn ' t ha v e had a r e a son t o . " I s t ha t co r r e c t ? 17

Co r r e c t . 18 A .

I a s k ed you a t you r depos i t i on , " I f you s aw 19 Q .

B r ook e G r a y on t he s t r e e t t oda y wou l d you be ab l e t o 20

po i n t he r ou t ? " And you s a i d , " I ' m no t su r e . " 21

Co r r e c t ? 22

Co r r e c t . 23 A .

I a s k ed i f you r e c a l l ed any t h i ng d i s t i nc t i v e 24 Q .

abou t he r appe a r anc e . You s a i d , " The on l y t h i ng 25

391

d i s t i nc t i v e t ha t I r emembe r i s I be l i e v e she wa s 1

chew i ng t oba c co . " I s t ha t co r r e c t ? 2


I a s k ed i f she wa s we a r i ng a ha t t ha t da y , and 4 Q .

you r e sponded you cou l dn ' t r emembe r . I s t ha t co r r e c t ? 5


Bu t t oda y you t h i nk you r emembe r t h i ngs we l l 7 Q .

enough t ha t you c an po i n t ou t someone i n t he cou r t r oom? 8

Sh e l oo k e d f am i l i a r , y e s . 9 A .

I n you r depos i t i on - - we l l l e t me a s k . The 10 Q .

pe r son t ha t you s aw pu t i t ems i n t he t r a sh c an , how 11

much t i me e l aps ed be t we en t hem pu t t i ng t hos e i t ems i n 12

t he t r a sh c an and you r e t r i e v i ng t hem? 13

I t wa s a f t e r - - I wa i t e d f o r h e r t o l e a v e t h e 14 A .

b a r n , a nd wh e n s h e l e f t t h e b a r n i t m i gh t h a v e b e e n t wo 15

m i nu t e s . 16

Wa s anyone e l s e a t t he s t ab l e t ha t da y? 17 Q .

A t t h a t po i n t , no , e v e r y bod y h a d l e f t . 18 A .

Bu t t he r e had be en peop l e t he r e t h r oughou t t he 19 Q .

da y? 20

Th e r e h a d b e e n . Ms . H i l l ' s d a ugh t e r h a d b e e n 21 A .

t h e r e , a nd I t h i n k a no t h e r ho r s e own e r h a d b e e n t h e r e . 22

I ha v e a copy o f you r depos i t i on , wh i ch I ' m 23 Q .

show i ng t o you r i gh t now . I s t ha t wha t t ha t documen t 24

appe a r s t o be? 25

392

Ye s . 1 A .

Ok a y . Tu r n i ng t o Page 18 , and I wou l d l i k e you 2 Q .

t o r e ad you r t e s t i mony f r om L i ne s 3 t o L i ne 11 , i f you 3

wou l d . 4

" Sh e p a c k e d up a l l o f h e r e qu i pme n t a nd t h e n 5 A .

t h e e x t r a , o r t h e n e e d l e s a nd t h e bo t t l e s a nd 6

me d i c a t i on s h e ' d u s e d . Sh e p i c k e d up a nd wa l k e d o v e r 7

t o t h e t r a s h c a n . Th a t wou l d h a v e b e e n on t h e no r t h 8

e nd o f t h e a r e n a , s t i l l i n s i d e o f t h e b a r n a r e a , o r 9

j u s t ou t s i d e o f t h e t a c k r oom a nd d i s po s e d o f t h em i n 10

a n op e n t r a s h c a n . Th e t r a s h c a n d i dn ' t - - t h e t r a s h 11

c a n d i dn ' t e v e n h a v e a l i d on i t . " 12

Ok a y . 13 Q .

You s a i d t o 11 , c o r r e c t ? 14 A .

Ye s . Now I ' m go i ng t o t u r n t o Page 34 , and i f 15 Q .

you wou l d r e ad f r om L i ne s 12 t o L i ne 18 , p l e a s e . 16

" I i n t r odu c e d my s e l f a nd s a i d t h a t I h a d b e e n 17 A .

t o l d t o c on t a c t h i m r e g a r d i ng B r oo k e G r a y . And I t o l d 18

h i m wh a t I h a d s e e n h a pp e n a nd t h a t I h a d , y ou k now , 19

r e c o v e r e d t h e me d i c a t i on bo t t l e s a nd t h e s y r i ng e s a nd 20

s t u f f , a nd t h a t I h a d a p r ob l em w i t h wh a t s h e wa s do i ng 21

a s we l l , a nd l e t me k now i f t h e r e wa s a n y t h i ng I c ou l d 22

do t o h e l p h i m . " You s a i d t i l l 18? 23

Ye s . Ok a y . Now l e t ' s t u r n t o Page 36 . I f you 24 Q .

cou l d r e ad L i ne 17 and 18 . 25

393

" D i d y ou p e r f o r m a n y t e s t s on t h e s y r i ng e s o r 1 A .

bo t t l e s t ha t you ho l d? "2

And t hen you r r e spons e? 3 Q .

" No . " 4 A .

And t h i s i s on Page 44 . I f you cou l d r e ad f r om 5 Q .

L i ne 7 t h r ough L i ne 13 on Page 45 . 6

" On c e a g a i n , t h e e x a c t s ame t h i ng . I s po k e 7 A .

w i t h h i m on t h e phon e , s e t up a t i me f o r h i m t o c ome 8

a nd me e t w i t h me . He me t w i t h me a t my home . I s a t 9

a nd t a l k e d w i t h h i m a bou t t h e e x a c t s ame t h i ng s t h a t we 10

h a d d i s c u s s e d t od a y a nd how h e b e c ame awa r e o f i t , wh a t 11

I s aw , wh a t I d i d , p i c t u r e s , wh a t e v e r , t h e who l e 9 12

y a r d s , a nd h e r e we a r e . " " A t t h a t t i me y ou g a v e h i m 13

t h e bo t t l e s t h a t y ou ' d a l l e g e d l y pu l l e d f r om t h e 14

t r a s h? " " I d i dn ' t a l l e g e d l y pu l l t h em , I d i d pu l l 15

t h em . " " Wa s i t a t t h a t t i me t h a t y ou g a v e h i m t h e s e 16

bo t t l e s ? " " Ye s . " " And a r e y ou awa r e o f wh a t ' s 17

h a pp e n e d t o t ho s e bo t t l e s s i n c e ? " " No . " O r s o r r y , " I 18

am no t . " " Wou l d y ou b e a b l e t o i d e n t i f y t ho s e bo t t l e s 19

i f t h e y we r e p r odu c e d i n c ou r t ? " " I wou l d . " " As 20

oppo s e d t o o t h e r bo t t l e s ? " " Ye s . " Wh e r e d i d s a y , t i l l 21

No . 7? 22

To 13 . 23 Q .

13 , o k a y . " I gu e s s , y e s , i f s ome bod y , i f t h e y 24 A .

we r e i n t h e , y ou k now , s ame p a c k a g i ng o r wh a t no t . " " I 25

394

me a n , i f t h e y f o l l owe d t h e s ame c h a i n o f c u s t od y , t h e n 1

I gu e s s I wou l d h a v e s e e n t h a t t h e y we r e t h e s ame 2

on e s . " " Do y ou r e c a l l a n y i d e n t i f i c a t i on numb e r s f r om 3

t h e s e bo t t l e s ? " " I d i d no t w r i t e t h a t down , no . " " So 4

i f y ou we r e p r e s e n t e d w i t h t wo s i m i l a r l oo k i ng bo t t l e s 5

t h a t h a d d i f f e r e n t numb e r s , y ou c ou l d no t n e c e s s a r i l y 6

s a y t h i s on e wa s t h e on e t h a t y ou pu l l e d f r om t h e t r a s h 7

a nd t h e o t h e r wa s no t ? " " No , I s uppo s e no t . " 8

Ms . Wy co f f , wha t you ' v e j us t r e ad a r e r ough l y a 9 Q .

do z en r e f e r enc e s i n you r depos i t i on t o bo t t l e s , p l u r a l . 10

Wha t happened t o t he o t he r bo t t l e s? 11

I mu s t h a v e b e e n u s i ng a no t h e r - - we l l , t h e r e 12 A .

wa s - - t h a t on e i s t h e on e I go t . So , I mu s t h a v e u s e d 13

bo t t l e s w i t h j u s t - - t h a t ' s wh a t I r e c o v e r e d . 14

Repe a t ed l y i n you r depos i t i on you r e f e r r ed t o 15 Q .

mu l t i p l e bo t t l e s . Wha t happened t o t he o t he r bo t t l e s? 16

Th a t ' s wh a t I h a d . I t m i gh t h a v e b e e n I 17 A .

m i s s po k e , bu t t h e r e wa s t h e on e bo t t l e . 18

You had a phone w i t h a c ame r a on i t t ha t da y , 19 Q .

d i dn ' t you? 20

I d i d . 21 A .

And you us ed t ha t c ame r a t o t a k e p i c t u r e s o f 22 Q .

documen t s you s a y we r e on a s t oo l , d i dn ' t you? 23

I d i d . 24 A .

Why d i dn ' t you t a k e any p i c t u r e s o f t he 25 Q .

395

e v i denc e t ha t you c l a i m t o pu l l f r om t he t r a sh c an t ha t 1

da y? 2


You ' r e a f o r me r po l i c e o f f i c e r , a r en ' t you? 4 Q .

I am . 5 A .

You r e cogn i z e t he i mpo r t anc e o f ma i n t a i n i ng 6 Q .

cha i n o f cus t ody , don ' t you? 7

I do . 8 A .

Do you a l so r e cogn i z e t he i mpo r t anc e o f 9 Q .

e s t ab l i sh i ng t he c i r cums t anc e s a t t he s c ene o f an 10

i nc i den t , don ' t you? 11

I do . 12 A .

I n you r e xpe r i enc e w i t h t he po l i c e depa r t men t , 13 Q .

t he y k e ep e v i denc e unde r l oc k and k e y , don ' t t he y? 14

Th e y do . 15 A .

The y don ' t l e a v e i t s i t t i ng i n open r ooms , do 16 Q .

t he y? 17

No . 18 A .

Ce r t a i n l y no t f o r a y e a r and a ha l f ; co r r e c t ? 19 Q .

Co r r e c t . 20 A .

You ha v e no pe r sona l know l edge o f any 21 Q .

compens a t i on t ha t t ook p l a c e f o r t he e v en t s t ha t you 22

s aw a t Ms . H i l l ' s s t ab l e , do you? 23

I c a n ' t - - I d i dn ' t p a y h e r , s o no . 24 A .

So a s f a r a s you know she wa s no t pa i d , t he 25 Q .

396

pe r son t ha t you s aw p r ov i d i ng t he s e s e r v i c e s ; i s t ha t 1

co r r e c t ? 2

I c an ' t answe r t ha t . 3 A .

We l l you c an ' t answe r whe t he r she wa s pa i d ; you 4 Q .

c an answe r t ha t you don ' t know , co r r e c t ? 5

Co r r e c t .6 A .

MR . ROLAND : I be l i e v e t hos e a r e a l l t he que s t i ons 7

we ha v e , You r Hono r . 8

THE COURT : M r . F r own f e l t e r , do you ha v e any 9

r ed i r e c t ? 10

11



Ms . Wy co f f , you t e s t i f i ed , and a c co r d i ng t o t he 14 Q .

t r ans c r i p t o f you r depos i t i on you t e s t i f i ed on 15

June 29 t h , 2011 ; doe s t ha t sound r i gh t ? 16

Ye s . 17 A .

Be t we en Ap r i l 7 t h , 2000 - - o r e x cus e me , June 18 Q .

29 t h , 2011 , I be l i e v e t he t e s t i mony wa s you ga v e t he 19

i t ems t ha t we r e r e t r i e v ed f r om t he t r a sh t o M r . Bu r t on 20

on Ap r i l 9 t h , 2010 ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 21

Ye a h , wh a t e v e r t h e d a t e wa s t h a t I g a v e t h em t o 22 A .

h i m , y e s . 23

D i d you ha v e , d i d you ha v e a c c e s s t o t hos e 24 Q .

i t ems be t we en t he da t e t ha t you ga v e t hem t o M r . Bu r t on 25

397

and t he da t e o f you r depos i t i on? 1

No . 2 A .

To t he be s t o f you r know l edge a r e t he i t ems 3 Q .

t ha t you s e e on t he t ab l e i n f r on t o f you t he s ame 4

i t ems t ha t you ga v e t o M r . Bu r t on? 5

Ye s . 6 A .

D i d you co l l e c t any o t he r i t ems f r om t he t r a sh 7 Q .

c an t ha t you d i d no t pu t i n t he t ube and g i v e t o 8

M r . Bu r t on? 9

No .10 A .




MR . FROWNFELTER : You r Hono r , a t t h i s po i n t we ha v e 14

no f u r t he r w i t ne s s e s t o o f f e r l i v e . We do ha v e s e v e r a l 15

depos i t i ons t ha t we i n t end t o en t e r i n t o t he r e co r d . 16

I had a d i s cus s i on w i t h M r . Ro l and , and a s I 17

unde r s t and h i s p r e f e r enc e i s t ha t t he s e be r e ad i n 18

o r de r t o g i v e h i m t he oppo r t un i t y t o ma k e ob j e c t i ons . 19

I s t ha t co r r e c t , i s t ha t you r p r e f e r enc e? 20

MR . ROLAND : Tha t , I t h i nk so . I f I cou l d ha v e 21

j us t a m i nu t e t o r e v i ew , p l e a s e . 22

THE COURT : Su r e . We ' l l r e c e s s . How l ong do you 23

wan t t o r e c e s s? We p r obab l y ne ed t o t a k e a b r e a k f o r a 24

f ew m i nu t e s anywa y . 25

398

MR . FROWNFELTER : A t any r a t e my r eque s t i s go i ng 1

t o be t o r eque s t a r e c e s s so t ha t we c an j us t ge t t he 2

depos i t i ons t oge t he r and a r r ange t he l og i s t i c s t o r e ad 3

t hem . 4

THE COURT : Tha t ' s f i ne . I s t he r e any chanc e you 5

c an wo r k ou t an ag r e emen t on t he pa r t s t o be r eda c t ed , 6

o r i s t ha t go i ng t o t a k e t oo l ong , o r how do you wan t 7

t o do t ha t ? 8

MR . ROLAND : I wou l d be open t o t ha t . 9

THE COURT : I s t he r e any chanc e t ha t ' s go i ng t o 10

wo r k o r . . . 11

MR . FROWNFELTER : Su r e . I c an - - t ha t wou l d be 12

f i ne w i t h me . 13

THE COURT : Why don ' t we t a k e a r e c e s s un t i l 14

abou t - - how much t i me do you t h i nk you ' l l ne ed t o do 15

t ha t ? 16

MR . ROLAND : I don ' t an t i c i pa t e i t t a k i ng t ha t 17

l ong . Ten m i nu t e s ma ybe .18

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t , so we ' l l r e c e s s un t i l 11 : 15 . 19

And I wou l d t e l l you t ha t I ' m go i ng t o r e c e s s , I ' l l 20

ne ed t o r e c e s s abou t t en a f t e r noon t oda y f o r abou t an 21

hou r . A l l r i gh t ? 22

MR . ROLAND : A l l r i gh t .23

( B r i e f Re c e s s f r om 11 : 05 t i l l 11 : 26 a . m . ) 24

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t , M r . F r own f e l t e r , ha v e you 25

399

a l l wo r k ed some t h i ng ou t on how you ' r e go i ng t o de a l 1

w i t h t he depos i t i ons? 2

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ye s , we ha v e .3

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . 4

MR . FROWNFELTER : Be f o r e we do so , I wou l d r eque s t 5

t ha t t he Cou r t t a k e no t i c e and t he r e co r d r e f l e c t t ha t 6

B r ook e G r a y ha s j o i ned he r couns e l a t t he couns e l t ab l e 7

f o r t he f i r s t t i me i n t h i s t r i a l , and , a l so , t ha t she ' s 8

d r e s s ed i n a wh i t e b l ous e . 9

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . So no t ed . 10

MR . FROWNFELTER : A l l r i gh t . A l l r i gh t , we 11

r e v i ewed t he depos i t i ons , and we do no t s e e t he ne ed t o 12

consume t he Cou r t ' s t i me by r e ad i ng t hem i n t he i r 13

en t i r e t y . Howe v e r , M r . Ro l and had some ob j e c t i ons he 14

w i shed t o en t e r , some o f wh i ch I won ' t con t e s t , he a r s a y 15

con t en t i n one o f t he depos i t i ons , and we t hough t t ha t 16

we cou l d j us t no t e t hos e ob j e c t i ons on t he r e co r d . 17


MR . FROWNFELTER : I ha v e t he depos i t i on o f Ca r o l yn 19

Sm i t h , wh i ch wa s t a k en on June 28 t h , 2011 . And I w i l l 20

r e ad t he que s t i on - - how abou t i f I r e ad t he que s t i on 21

and answe r and M r . Ro l and e xp r e s s h i s ob j e c t i on . I s 22

t ha t ? O r j us t - - how do you wan t t o do t ha t ? We cou l d 23

j us t s t i pu l a t e on t he r e co r d .24

MR . ROLAND : Ye ah . 25

400

THE COURT : Why don ' t you o f f e r t he en t i r e 1

depos i t i on and t hen you t e l l me t he po r t i ons t ha t you 2

wan t t o po i n t ou t .3

MR . ROLAND : We l l t ha t ' s wha t I t hough t we we r e 4

do i ng . We ' v e ma r k ed t he s e c t i ons whe r e I had some 5

conc e r ns , and I t hough t we ' d j us t subm i t i t and you 6

wou l d ma k e a de t e r m i na t i on upon r e ad i ng i t . 7


MR . FROWNFELTER : Some o f t hem we ' r e go i ng t o a s k 9

f o r a r u l i ng on . I ' d l i k e t o o f f e r i n t o e v i denc e wha t 10

we ' v e ma r k ed a s Pe t i t i one r ' s Exh i b i t 48 , wh i ch i s a 11

depos i t i on o f Ca r o l yn Sm i t h . And t h i s i s o f f e r ed i n , 12

j us t t he s ame a s i f Ms . Sm i t h had t e s t i f i ed i n t h i s 13

cou r t .14


e v i denc e . ) 16


MR . FROWNFELTER : I unde r s t and t he r e i s an 18

ob j e c t i on on Page 7 o f t h i s depos i t i on i n wh i ch t he 19

w i t ne s s , L i ne s 11 t o 20 , i n wh i ch t he w i t ne s s r e l a t e s a 20

conv e r s a t i on w i t h a t h i r d pa r t y . And I unde r s t and 21

M r . Ro l and ' s ob j e c t i on i s t ha t i t ' s he a r s a y , and I do 22

no t con t e s t t ha t ob j e c t i on so . . . 23

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t , so why don ' t we j us t - - I 24

w i l l - - l e t me t h i nk how a r e we go i ng t o do t ha t . I s 25

401

t h i s a - - wha t we ' l l do i s I w i l l s a y adm i t t ed bu t . . . 1

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ye s , we cou l d j us t ma k e a l i s t o f 2

t he e x c l uded po r t i ons . Page 7 , L i ne s 11 t h r ough 20 . 3


MR . FROWNFELTER : A l l r i gh t , on Page 8 . 5

THE COURT : Page wha t ? 6

MR . FROWNFELTER : Page 8 . 7

THE COURT : Ok a y . 8

MR . FROWNFELTER : The w i t ne s s r e l a t ed t ha t she 9

spok e t o an i nd i v i dua l by t he name o f B r ook e . And I 10

a s k ed he r , " D i d you ha v e any conv e r s a t i on w i t h he r 11

abou t he r qua l i f i c a t i ons o r p r epa r a t i on t o do t h i s 12

wo r k? " 13

MR . ROLAND : We ob j e c t , You r Hono r , be c aus e t he 14

t e s t i mony doe s no t e s t ab l i sh t ha t t he B r ook e i n 15

que s t i on i s B r ook e G r a y . A t no po i n t i n t he depos i t i on 16

doe s t he w i t ne s s e v e r i den t i f y B r ook e G r a y . I n f a c t , 17

she s a y s she doe s no t know t he l a s t name o f t he pe r son 18

i n t he d i s cus s i on . 19

MR . FROWNFELTER : And my r e spons e t o t ha t i s t ha t 20

t he - - i f t he i nd i v i dua l i n que s t i on - - i f t he f i nde r 21

o f f a c t , t he Cou r t , de t e r m i ne s t ha t i t ' s c r ed i b l e t ha t 22

t he pe r son i n que s t i on wa s B r ook e Gr a y , t hen t he 23

s t a t emen t , he r r e spons e t o t ha t que s t i on wou l d be a 24

pa r t y adm i s s i on and wou l d be adm i s s i b l e a s a , unde r an 25

402

e x c ep t i on t o t he he a r s a y r u l e .1

THE COURT : Bu t t he t h i ng I don ' t know i s whe t he r 2

o r no t - - and aga i n , t h i s m i gh t j us t ge t i n t o t he 3

depos i t i on . I s t he r e any po i n t i n t he depos i t i on whe r e 4

Ca r o l yn Sm i t h s a y s , I s aw B r ook e Gr a y e a r l i e r t ha t da y 5

o r some t h i ng , i s t he r e e v e r any . . . 6

MR . FROWNFELTER : She s a y s t ha t t he r e wa s a name o f 7

a young - - t ha t she had be en r e f e r r ed t o a young , a 8

woman , someone t o pe r f o r m s e r v i c e s . She wa s a s k ed , 9

" Wha t i s t he name o f t he young woman who wa s do i ng 10

t h i s wo r k? " 11

" B r ook e . " 12

" Wa sn ' t i t B r ook e? "13

" B r ook e . " 14

" Wa s t ha t B r ook e Gr a y? " 15

" To be hone s t I don ' t know he r l a s t name . I t wa s 16

B r ook e . "17

" And d i d she pe r f o r m t he t oo t h f l oa t i ng on you r 18

ho r s e s? "19

" Oh , y e ah , I wa s r i gh t t he r e . " 20

So she d i d no t i den t i f y - - 21

MR . ROLAND : I wou l d ob j e c t t o any f u r t he r 22

d i s cus s i on . The r e l e v an t que s t i on ha s be en add r e s s ed . 23

She d i d no t i den t i f y t he pe r son she wa s d i s cus s i ng a s 24

B r ook e Gr a y . 25

403

MR . FROWNFELTER : She i den t i f i ed a pe r son t o whom 1

she r e f e r r ed by t he name o f B r ook e who pe r f o r med t oo t h 2

f l oa t i ng . I t h i nk i t ' s a que s t i on o f t he we i gh t r a t he r 3

t han t he adm i s s i b i l i t y a s t o whe t he r o r no t t h i s pe r son 4

wa s i n f a c t B r ook e G r a y . 5

THE COURT : Wa s she i n t he r oom when t he depos i t i on 6

wa s be i ng t a k en? Wa s she i den t i f i ed? 7

MR . ROLAND : I know she wa s ne v e r i den t i f i ed . I 8

c an ' t r emembe r i f she wa s i n t he r oom . 9

MR . FROWNFELTER : She wa s i n t he r oom f o r some - - 10

I don ' t t h i nk she wa s i den t i f i ed i n t he . . . 11

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . Wha t po r t i ons o f i t a r e you 12

w i l l i ng t o e x c l ude , M r . Ro l and? Wha t a r e t he l i ne s? 13

Be c aus e I ' m go i ng t o sus t a i n t he ob j e c t i on . I t d i dn ' t 14

sound l i k e she i den t i f i ed he r i n t he depos i t i on . She ' s 15

no t he r e t oda y t o do i t . 16

MR . FROWNFELTER : We l l , i f - - a l l r i gh t . L i ne s - - 17

Page 8 , L i ne s 16 t o 19 . Page 10 , L i ne s 10 t o 20 . And 18

Page 14 , L i ne s 6 t o 9 we ag r e ed t o s t r i k e . 19

THE COURT : I f I sus t a i n t ha t ob j e c t i on . 20

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ye s . Tha t ob j e c t i on wou l d app l y 21

t o , t he L i ne s on Page 8 and Page 10 . I n bo t h c a s e s she 22

wa s a s k ed wha t t he i nd i v i dua l who wa s do i ng t h i s wo r k 23

s a i d . The r e ' s a s t a t emen t t ha t i nd i v i dua l r e l a t ed . 24

And t hen i t wou l d be a pa r t y adm i s s i on i f i t i s 25

404

conc l uded t o be B r ook e Gr a y , i t wou l d be , f r ank l y , t he 1

en t i r e depos i t i on i s no t much , doe sn ' t ha v e much t o s a y 2

i f i t ' s no t B r ook e Gr a y . 3

MR . ROLAND : We l l , i n t ha t c a s e we ' l l ob j e c t t o t he 4

i n t r oduc t i on o f t h i s depos i t i on on t he g r ounds t ha t i t 5

i s i r r e l e v an t be c aus e i t wa s ne v e r e s t ab l i shed t ha t t he 6

sub j e c t be i ng - - o r t he pe r son be i ng d i s cus s ed i s i n 7

f a c t t he de f endan t . 8

MR . FROWNFELTER : My sugge s t i on wou l d be t ha t t he 9

Cou r t a c c ep t t he e xh i b i t i n t o e v i denc e and r u l e on 10

whe t he r o r no t i t e s t ab l i she s i f - - i f t he Cou r t 11

conc l ude s t ha t t he pe r son i n que s t i on i s no t B r ook e 12

Gr a y , ha s no t be en i den t i f i ed a s B r ook e G r a y , t hen 13

p r obab l y t he en t i r e depos i t i on wou l d be i r r e l e v an t . On 14

t he o t he r hand I t h i nk t he Cou r t ne eds t o r e ad t he 15

depos i t i on i n who l e sub j e c t t o t he ob j e c t i ons t ha t ha v e 16

be en made . 17

THE COURT : We l l i n f a i r ne s s I t h i nk I ne ed t o r u l e 18

on t ha t t oda y so t ha t M r . Ro l and and you , f o r t ha t 19

ma t t e r , ha v e some t h i ng e l s e you w i sh - - I t h i nk I ne ed 20

t o f i gu r e t ha t ou t t oda y . I don ' t t h i nk I c an t a k e 21

t ha t unde r adv i s emen t , I don ' t t h i nk t ha t ' s f a i r t o 22

e i t he r pa r t y . 23

MR . ROLAND : We l l , and we wou l d f u r t he r a r gue , You r 24

Hono r , t ha t a s a ma t t e r o f l aw , you cou l d no t i n f e r 25

405

t ha t t he B r ook e be i ng d i s cus s ed wou l d be , wa s t he 1

de f endan t , be c aus e t he r e ' s ne v e r any a f f i r ma t i v e 2

i den t i f i c a t i on made . And t he r e ' s ne v e r any a l l ega t i on 3

made by t he deponen t t ha t t he pe r son be i ng d i s cus s ed i s 4

i n f a c t t he de f endan t , so we wou l d a r gue - - 5

THE COURT : Why don ' t we do t h i s . Ok a y . I know 6

you r ob j e c t i on . Can you f i nd , c an you po i n t ou t 7

any t h i ng i n t ha t depos i t i on t ha t i nd i c a t e s , t ha t 8

i den t i f i e s B r ook e G r a y a s t he pe r son be i ng d i s cus s ed o r 9

ma k i ng adm i s s i ons o r wha t e v e r e l s e t ha t m i gh t be i n 10

t he r e? 11

MR . FROWNFELTER : The i den t i f i c a t i on i s t ha t 12

t he r e ' s a woman named B r ook e who c ame i n and f l oa t ed 13

he r t e e t h . The w i t ne s s ne v e r - - I be l i e v e - - t ha t I 14

don ' t know whe t he r she wa s i n t he r oom , t he w i t ne s s 15

ne v e r i nd i c a t ed t ha t t he pe r son po i n t ed t o B r ook e G r a y 16

and s a i d , t ha t ' s he r , and t he w i t ne s s d i d no t r emembe r 17

t he l a s t name o f t he B r ook e who f l oa t ed he r t e e t h . 18

Tha t ' s wha t we ' v e go t . 19

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t , I ' m go i ng t o e x c l ude t he 20

depos i t i on . I t sounds l i k e t he g i s t o f i t i s t he r e ' s 21

no i den t i f i c a t i on . 22

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ok a y . Exh i b i t No . 49 , we ha v e 23

t he depos i t i on o f Te r i Mag r a t h . 24


406

e v i denc e . )1

MR . FROWNFELTER : Any ob j e c t i on? 2


THE COURT : Te r i Mag r a t h? 4

MR . ROLAND : I do ha v e one que s t i on , You r Hono r . 5

W i l l we ha v e an oppo r t un i t y t o po i n t ou t , po i n t ou t 6

i s sue s t ha t a r e no t add r e s s ed i n t he s e depos i t i ons? 7

THE COURT : I t h i nk you c an do t ha t i n a r gumen t . 8


THE COURT : You c an c e r t a i n l y do t ha t i n a r gumen t 10

o r you c an do i t i n you r own c a s e . 11

MR . ROLAND : Tha t ' s wha t I t hough t . 12

THE COURT : O r wha t e v e r . So I w i l l f i nd t he Te r i 13

Mag r a t h depos i t i on ha s be en adm i t t ed w i t hou t ob j e c t i on .14


e v i denc e . ) 16

MR . FROWNFELTER : Wa s t ha t 49? 17

THE COURT : Ye s . And I w i l l go ahe ad and ma k e a 18

f i nd i ng t ha t P l a i n t i f f ' s 48 , t he Ca r o l yn Sm i t h 19

depos i t i on ha s be en e x c l uded and mov e on . Thank you . 20

MR . FROWNFELTER : And I ha v e P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 21

No . 50 , wh i ch i s a depos i t i on o f E l i z abe t h H i l l .22


e v i denc e . ) 24


407


MR . FROWNFELTER : And I wou l d a l so no t e t ha t 2

t he r e ' s an e xh i b i t a t t a ched t o t ha t wh i ch wa s 3

i den t i f i ed i n t he depos i t i on wh i ch i s ma r k ed a s H i l l 1 , 4

wh i ch i s a l so pa r t o f t he e xh i b i t t ha t we ' r e o f f e r i ng .5

( P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 50A wa s o f f e r ed i n t o6

e v i denc e . ) 7

THE COURT : I s t ha t a l r e ady i n e v i denc e somep l a c e 8

e l s e? 9

MR . FROWNFELTER : No . Tha t wa s i den t i f i ed i n t he 10

depos i t i on . 11



THE COURT : We ' l l co l l e c t i v e l y ma r k t ha t a s 14

De f endan t ' s ( s i c ) Exh i b i t 50 , and t ha t w i l l be subpa r t 15

1 o f t ha t , I gue s s . Tha t ' s f i ne . 16

MR . FROWNFELTER : I w i l l ma r k t he a t t a chmen t a s 17

Exh i b i t 50A . 18

THE COURT : Tha t wo r k s , ma k e s s ens e . Doe s t ha t 19

wo r k f o r you , M r . Ro l and? 20


THE COURT : So P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 50 and 50A a r e 22

adm i t t ed .23

( P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t s Nos . 50 and 50A we r e24

adm i t t ed i n t o e v i denc e . ) . 25

408

MR . FROWNFELTER : We ha v e a depos i t i on by S t e r l i ng 1

S i l v e r , t ha t i s h i s name , and I ' v e ma r k ed t ha t a s 2

P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 51 .3


e v i denc e . ) 5

MR . ROLAND : No ob j e c t i on , You r Hono r .6

THE COURT : S t e r l i ng? 7

MR . FROWNFELTER : S t e r l i ng S i l v e r . 8

THE COURT : I ' l l f i nd t ha t ' s be en adm i t t ed w i t hou t 9

ob j e c t i on .10


e v i denc e . ) 12

MR . FROWNFELTER : And I ha v e a depos i t i on o f Ke l l e 13

K - e - l - l - e B - r - a - m - m - e - r B r amme r , wh i ch I ' v e ma r k ed a s 14

Exh i b i t 52 . 15


e v i denc e . ) 17


THE COURT : Depos i t i on o f Ke l l e B r amme r , Exh i b i t 52 19



e v i denc e . ) 22

MR . FROWNFELTER : And f i na l l y I ha v e a depos i t i on 23

o f Ca t hy Ha r r i s , DVM , wh i ch I ' d l i k e t o o f f e r i n t o 24

e v i denc e .25

409


e v i denc e . ) 2


THE COURT : Tha t w i l l be P l a i n t i f f ' s 53? 4


THE COURT : P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 53 , depos i t i on o f 6

Ca t hy Ha r r i s w i l l be adm i t t ed . 7


e v i denc e . ) 9

MR . FROWNFELTER : And w i t h t ha t t he p l a i n t i f f 10

r e s t s . 11

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . M r . Ro l and . 12

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , M r . F r own f e l t e r and I 13

d i s cus s ed , we ha v e one l i v e w i t ne s s and one depos i t i on 14

t ha t we i n t end t o subm i t i n t o e v i denc e . I t wa s ou r 15

t hough t t ha t we m i gh t , i f t he j udge i s w i l l i ng , s i mp l y 16

t a k e a b r e a k f o r l unch e a r l y . We an t i c i pa t e t ha t t he 17

que s t i on i ng o f t he w i t ne s s w i l l t a k e a coup l e o f hou r s 18

and we t hough t i t m i gh t no t ma k e s ens e t o s t a r t and ge t 19

ma ybe 20 m i nu t e s i n t o t he que s t i on i ng and t hen b r e a k . 20

THE COURT : Tha t ' s f i ne . As I s a i d be f o r e , t he r e ' s 21

some t h i ngs t ha t I ha v e t o do , and I wou l d no t be ab l e 22

t o t a k e t h i ngs ba c k up un t i l abou t 1 : 30 . 23

MR . ROLAND : Tha t wou l d no t be a p r ob l em f o r me .24

MR . FROWNFELTER : We c an do t ha t . 25

410

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . We ' l l be i n r e c e s s un t i l 1

1 : 30 . So r r y , hang on . 2

MR . FROWNFELTER : Be f o r e we r e c e s s , ma y - - I wou l d 3

l i k e t o r e c a l l w i t ne s s M i che l l e Wy co f f f o r one 4

que s t i on , p l e a s e .5


MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , my unde r s t and i ng i s t ha t 7

t he pe t i t i one r ha s a l r e ady c l os ed t he i r e v i denc e . 8

The y ' v e a l r e ady subm i t t ed t he i r c a s e . 9

THE COURT : You d i d r e s t . So we ' l l be i n r e c e s s .10

( Lunch Re c e s s f r om 11 : 41 a . m . t o 1 : 27 p . m . )11

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t , I t h i nk we we r e r e ady t o 12

p r oc e ed w i t h t he De f endan t ' s c a s e . I s t ha t co r r e c t , 13

M r . Ro l and? 14


THE COURT : A l l r i gh t , you ma y p r oc e ed .16

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , we wou l d l i k e t o c a l l t o 17

t he s t and Doc t o r Thoma s A l l en . 18

THE COURT : P l e a s e s t ep f o r wa r d , r a i s e you r r i gh t 19

hand and be swo r n . 20

21

DOCTOR THOMAS E . ALLEN , du l y swo r n by t he C i r cu i t 22

C l e r k , Mo l l y L i v i ngs t on .23


THE COURT : P l e a s e be s e a t ed .25

411


BY MR . ROLAND : 2

A l l r i gh t , Doc t o r A l l en , cou l d you s t a t e you r 3 Q .

name f o r t he r e co r d , p l e a s e . 4

Thoma s Edwa r d A l l e n . 5 A .

And wha t i s you r oc cupa t i on?6 Q .

I ' m a v e t e r i n a r i a n . I l i m i t my p r a c t i c e t o 7 A .

e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y . 8

Ok a y . How l ong ha v e you be en a v e t e r i na r i an?9 Q .

38 y e a r s . 10 A .

And d i d I unde r s t and you t o s a y t ha t 11 Q .

100 pe r c en t o f you r p r a c t i c e i s equ i ne den t i s t r y? 12

Ye s , i t h a s b e e n f o r t h e l a s t 13 y e a r s . 13 A .

P r i o r t o f ocus i ng on equ i ne den t i s t r y , wha t wa s 14 Q .

you r p r a c t i c e l i k e? 15

I d i d e v e r y t h i ng f r om g e n e r a l l a r g e a n i ma l 16 A .

p r a c t i c e , wh i c h me a n s a l l k i nd s o f f a r m a n i ma l s , d a i r y 17

a n i ma l s , p i g s , a nd sma l l a n i ma l s , dog s a nd c a t s , 18

mo s t l y , a nd I d i d a l i t t l e b i t o f e v e r y t h i ng , a nd t h e n 19

p r ob a b l y mo r e o f e qu i n e ho r s e v e t e r i n a r y me d i c i n e t h a n 20

a n y t h i ng e l s e . 21

Ok a y . Whe r e d i d you ge t you r unde r g r adua t e 22 Q .

educ a t i on? 23

F ou r y e a r s a t T e x a s A&M Co l l e g e o f Ve t e r i n a r y 24 A .

Me d i c i n e . We l l , a c t u a l l y i t wa s p r e - v e t . I go t ma y 25

412

b a c h e l o r s i n a n i ma l s c i e n c e a t T e x a s A&M , a nd t h e n 1

M i z z ou f o r t h e v e t s c hoo l . 2

And wha t y e a r d i d you g r adua t e f r om A&M?3 Q .

A&M 1969 . 4 A .

And wha t y e a r d i d you g r adua t e f r om t he 5 Q .

Un i v e r s i t y o f M i s sou r i Ve t Schoo l ? 6

Re c e i v e d t h e d e g r e e i n ' 73 . Ac t u a l l y I go t ou t 7 A .

i n ' 72 b e c a u s e we we r e t h e f i r s t c l a s s t h r ough t h e 8

c omp l e t e b l o c k s y s t em s o y ou c ou l d pu t a l l y ou r b l o c k s 9

t og e t h e r a nd I go t ou t i n ' 72 , bu t t h e n go t t h e d e g r e e 10

i n ' 73 . 11

I wan t t o p l a c e i n f r on t o f you a documen t . I s 12 Q .

t h i s t he b i o o r cu r r i cu l um v i t a e t ha t you s en t t o us? 13


Ok a y . 15 Q .

MR . ROLAND : I ' d l i k e t o ha v e t h i s ma r k ed a s 16

De f endan t ' s Exh i b i t No . 8 , and I wou l d l i k e t o o f f e r i t 17

i n t o t he r e co r d . 18


e v i denc e . ) 20

MR . FROWNFELTER : I don ' t t h i nk I r e c e i v ed a copy 21

o f t ha t , bu t I ha v e no ob j e c t i on t o i t . 22

MR . ROLAND : Ok a y . I ma i l ed you a copy mon t hs ago , 23

bu t t ha t ' s a l l r i gh t . 24

THE COURT : I ' l l no t e t ha t De f endan t ' s Exh i b i t 8 i s 25

413

adm i t t ed .1


e v i denc e . )3

( BY MR . ROLAND) Now Doc t o r A l l en , i n t h i s i t 4 Q .

s a y s t ha t you ha v e be en i nvo l v ed i n many d i f f e r en t 5

a spe c t s o f equ i ne p r a c t i c e . Cou l d you de s c r i be t he 6

d i f f e r en t a spe c t s o f t ha t p r a c t i c e . 7

Su r e . E v e r y t h i ng f r om b a c k wh e n we d i d t ub e 8 A .

wo r m i ng , b e f o r e i t wa s s o c ommon l y a v a i l a b l e t o g e t 9

p a s t e t h a t y ou c ou l d s t i c k i n a ho r s e ' s mou t h , we d i d a 10

l o t o f p a s s i ng i n t o t h e n a s a l , n a s a l g a s t r i c t ub e a nd 11

pump i ng a d ewo r m i ng s o l u t i on i n t o t h e ho r s e ' s mou t h . 12

So a c t u a l l y t h e f i r s t f ew y e a r s i n e qu i n e 13

p r a c t i c e wa s a l o t o f v a c c i n a t i ng a nd t ub e wo r m i ng we r e 14

t h e b i gg e s t p a r t s o f t h e p r a c t i c e , a nd nowa d a y s t h a t ' s 15

ou t b e c a u s e y ou h a v e a l l k i nd s o f p a s t e a v a i l a b l e , i t ' s 16

e a s y t o g i v e , a nd a l o t o f p e op l e g i v e t h e i r own 17

v a c c i n e s b e c a u s e i t ' s no t r o c k e t s c i e n c e a nd y ou c a n 18

g e t i t a l mo s t e v e r ywh e r e . 19

And s o e v e r y t h i ng f r om t h a t t o a l i t t l e b i t o f 20

r e p r odu c t i v e wo r k , l ame n e s s e x ams , s ew i ng up 21

l a c e r a t i on s , a nd t h e n a v e r y sma l l amoun t o f e qu i n e 22

d e n t i s t r y b e c a u s e i t r e a l l y wa s n ' t t h e r e . I me a n , we 23

go t l i k e a n hou r o r l e s s o f l e c t u r e on e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y 24

i n v e t s c hoo l t h e n , a s i t h a s b e e n up un t i l t h e l a s t 25

414

f ew y e a r s i n v e t e r i n a r y s c hoo l . I t j u s t wa s n ' t , wa s n ' t 1

r e c ogn i z e d a s b e i ng i mpo r t a n t .2

I s e e . We r e t he r e d i f f e r en t t ype s o f 3 Q .

f a c i l i t i e s t ha t you wou l d wo r k a t ? 4

Ye s , a l l k i nd s o f t h em f r om , f o r awh i l e I h a d 5 A .

my own , i n p a r t n e r s h i p w i t h a no t h e r v e t e r i n a r i a n h a d a 6

c l i n i c wh e r e we d i d s ome a bdom i n a l s u r g e r i e s on ho r s e s 7

a nd f o r s e v e r e i n t e s t i n a l o r a bdom i n a l p r ob l ems , a nd a 8

l o t o f , mo s t o f t h e t i me go i ng t o ho r s e own e r ' s p l a c e s 9

o r bo a r d i ng f a c i l i t i e s , t h e r e ' s a l o t o f ho r s e s a nd 10

do i ng wo r k t h e r e . 11

So a s an equ i ne p r a c t i t i one r , wou l d you s a y 12 Q .

t ha t you k i nd o f , you know , s e en i t a l l ? 13

Se e n p a r t s o f a l l o f i t , y e s . 14 A .

Do you ha v e any c e r t i f i c a t i ons? 15 Q .

Ye s . I h a v e - - I ' m c e r t i f i e d i n t h e 16 A .

I n t e r n a t i on a l As s o c i a t i on o f Equ i n e De n t i s t r y , wh i c h 17

r e c e n t l y h a s g a i n e d s ome a c c e p t a n c e i n s e v e r a l s t a t e s 18

a s b e i ng r e l e v a n t t o a c c omp l i s hme n t s i n t h e e qu i n e 19


Ok a y . Ha v e you t a k en any con t i nu i ng educ a t i on 21 Q .

cou r s e s? 22

Ye s . On e o f t h em t h a t wa s p r ob a b l y t h e mo s t 23 A .

p r odu c t i v e f o r me , b e c a u s e o f wh a t I ' m do i ng now , wa s 24

j u s t a we e k o r s o t h a t I s p e n t a t t h e Ac a d emy o f Equ i n e 25

415

De n t i s t r y i n G l e nn s F e r r y , I d a ho , b e c a u s e , l i k e I s a i d , 1

i t wa s n ' t c o v e r e d i n v e t e r i n a r y s c hoo l s , i t ' s j u s t 2

b a r e l y s t a r t i ng t o b e c o v e r e d now s omewh a t . I n f a c t 3

t h e y ' r e s t a r t i ng t o h i r e s ome non - v e t e r i n a r i a n s t o 4

t e a c h e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y t o t h e v e t s t ud e n t s . 5

Bu t go i ng t o t h a t c on t i nu i ng e du c a t i on s ou r c e , 6

i t j u s t f u r t h e r i l l um i n a t e d how i mpo r t a n t e qu i n e 7

d e n t i s t r y i s t o t h e v a s t ma j o r i t y o f ho r s e s . I t wa s s o 8

n ews t o me a f t e r - - e v e n t hough I ' d b e e n i n p r a c t i c e 9

f o r 23 y e a r s a t t h e t i me , t h a t t h e r e a r e v e r y f ew 10

ho r s e s t h a t y ou c a nno t h e l p l i v e l ong e r , b e t t e r l i v e s 11

a nd e v e n p e r f o r m b e t t e r w i t h good e qu i n e d e n t a l 12

p r a c t i c e . F l o a t i ng , j u s t b a s i c f l o a t i ng . 13

Ok a y . Le t ' s t a l k a l i t t l e b i t abou t you r 14 Q .

t r a i n i ng a t t he Un i v e r s i t y o f M i s sou r i . You de s c r i bed 15

spend i ng j us t an hou r o r so o f c l a s s r oom t i me? 16

R i gh t . 17 A .

Cou l d you de s c r i be wha t wa s t augh t i n t ha t hou r 18 Q .

o r s o? 19

Ye s . I t h i n k i t wa s - - I ' m p r e t t y s u r e i t wa s 20 A .

Do c t o r J ame s Ka u f ma n ( phon e t i c ) , who ' s a n e x c e l l e n t 21

v e t e r i n a r i a n , a nd i t wa s t e a c h i ng t o u s wh a t wa s k nown 22

a t t h e t i me , wh i c h wa s r ou t i n e e qu i n e d e n t a l c a r e wa s 23

t o b l i nd l y r a t t l e a c oup l e o f f l o a t s a r ound i n a 24

ho r s e ' s mou t h , t a k i ng t h e s h a r p po i n t s o f f . 25

416

Th e r e wa s no s p e c u l um i n v o l v e d , no 1

v i s u a l i z a t i on o f wh a t wa s i n t h e ho r s e ' s mou t h , we 2

j u s t - - we k n ew a t t h e t i me , i n quo t e s , t h a t t h e on l y 3

t h i ng t o do wa s t o t a k e o f f s h a r p e n ame l po i n t s . And 4

s o t h a t ' s r e a l l y a l l - - i n f a c t , t h a t wa s t h e s ame 5

t h i ng b e i ng p r e s e n t e d b y t h e Ame r i c a n As s o c i a t i on o f 6

Equ i n e P r a c t i t i on e r s , t h e AAEP un t i l a s r e c e n t l y a s 7

1997 . Bu t r ou t i n e e qu i n e d e n t a l ma i n t e n a n c e i n v o l v e d 8

t wo bu c k e t s a nd a f l o a t , no s p e c u l um . So y ou we r e n ' t 9

r e a l l y l oo k i ng t o s e e wh a t wa s go i ng on i n t h e r e . So 10

t h a t ' s wh y i t wa s s u c h n ews t o me wh e n I s aw a 11

non - v e t e r i n a r i a n a c t u a l l y h e l p i ng ho r s e s . 12

And when d i d you f i r s t s e e a non - v e t e r i na r i an 13 Q .

he l p i ng ho r s e s? 14

I t wa s a bou t 1994 . I h a d mo v e d f r om s ou t h e r n 15 A .

Ca l i f o r n i a b a c k t o M i s s ou r i , a nd a gu y c a l l e d me up a nd 16

a s k e d me - - h e wa s a non - v e t e r i n a r i a n , a n e qu i n e d e n t a l 17

p r a c t i t i on e r , o r a l a y f l o a t e r t h e y s a y , wh i c h i s 18

a c t u a l l y a n e r r on e ou s t e r m b e c a u s e l a y me a n s un e du c a t e d 19

a nd t h e y p r ob a b l y k now mo r e a bou t d e n t i s t r y t h a n mo s t 20

v e t s . 21

Bu t a n ywa y , t h i s s o - c a l l e d l a y f l o a t e r c a l l e d 22

me ou t t o s e d a t e s ome ho r s e s s o h e c ou l d do e qu i n e 23

d e n t i s t r y . And t h a t wa s s u c h a l i f e c h a ng i ng d a y f o r 24

me , b e c a u s e I l e a r n e d on t h a t d a y t h e s e v e r e p r ob l ems 25

417

t h a t a r e i n ho r s e s ' mou t h s . Th e o t h e r t h i ng I l e a r n e d 1

i s how s a i n t l y a l o t o f ho r s e s a r e . Th e y c a n h a v e 2

d e a d , l oo s e , r o t t e n pu s - po c k e t e d t e e t h r a t t l i ng a r ound 3

i n a l oo s e s o c k e t , b e f a t a nd h a pp y a nd k i d s a f e . So 4

t h a t wa s a bou t 1994 . 5

So wa s i t a r ound t ha t t i me t ha t you de c i ded t o 6 Q .

pu r sue f u r t he r i n t e r e s t s i n t h i s a r e a? 7

Ye s . And I s t a r t e d do i ng mo r e a nd mo r e 8 A .

d e n t i s t r y , a nd t h e n i n 1998 I h a d on e o f t ho s e l i f e 9

c h a ng i ng e v e n t s , a n e a r f a t a l h e a r t a t t a c k , I ' v e s t i l l 10

go t t h e d e f i b r i l l a t o r h e r e , a nd I ' m r e a l i z i ng how b i g 11

ou r gu a r a n t e e s a r e , z e r o , I d e c i d e d t o s p e nd t h e r e s t 12

o f my t i me do i ng t h i ng s I l i k e d do i ng t h e b e s t a nd 13

t h a t ' s ho r s e d e n t i s t r y . 14

Ok a y . Wa s t ha t t he f i r s t t ha t you he a r d o f t he 15 Q .

Ac ademy o f Equ i ne Den t i s t r y? 16

Ye s , i t wa s . Ye a h . A gu y n ame d G r e g McKe y 17 A .

s howe d me , - - h e ' s t h e on e t h a t h a d me ou t s e d a t i ng t h e 18

ho r s e s , a nd I l e a r n e d a bou t Da l e J e f f r e y a nd how h e 19

b r ough t b a c k d e n t i s t r y , r e a l l y , t o t h e a t t e n t i on o f 20

c e r t a i n l y v e t e r i n a r i a n s a nd e v e n t h e wo r l d . 21

So when d i d you f i r s t go ou t t o t he Ac ademy o f 22 Q .

Equ i ne Den t i s t r y? 23

I t wa s i n t h e - - i t wa s r i gh t b e f o r e we 24 A .

pub l i s h e d a boo k . We pub l i s h e d t h e boo k c a l l e d - - 25

418

a f t e r I ' d b e e n do i ng i t f o r s e v e r a l y e a r s , i t c ame ou t 1

i n ' 03 , s o i t wa s r i gh t b e f o r e t h a t , b e c a u s e Da l e ' s no 2

dummy , h e i n v i t e d me ou t t o t h e , t o h i s s c hoo l s o I 3

c ou l d v i s i t t h e r e f o r awh i l e , a nd s o i t wa s p r ob a b l y 4

' 01 o r ' 02 t h a t I we n t ou t t o Da l e ' s - - I t h i n k i t wa s 5

' 01 t h a t I we n t t o Da l e ' s s c hoo l . 6

You men t i oned a book t ha t you had pub l i shed ; 7 Q .

wha t wa s t he name o f t ha t book? 8

Ma nu a l o f Equ i n e De n t i s t r y . And my w i f e 9 A .

i l l u s t r a t e d i t , wh i c h ma d e i t u s e f u l . 10

And wha t y e a r d i d you s a y t h i s wa s f i r s t 11 Q .

pub l i shed? 12

' 03 . 13 A .

Ok a y . How many p r i n t i ngs ha s t h i s book had 14 Q .

now? 15

I t ' s i n i t s s e c ond p r i n t i ng now . Th e f i r s t on e 16 A .

s t opp e d . I t h i n k i t wa s po l i t i c a l l y i n c o r r e c t , s o t h e 17

v e t e r i n a r y t e x t pub l i s h e r s t opp e d p r i n t i ng i t . So my 18

w i f e b e c ame a m i c r o - pub l i s h e r a nd now we pub l i s h i t . 19

Ok a y . I n t h i s c a s e p r e v i ous l y we ha v e t a l k ed 20 Q .

abou t how t he au t ho r i t a t i v e t e x t i n t he a r e a o f equ i ne 21

den t i s t r y i s Ba k e r and Ea s l e y ' s t e x t book . And i n f a c t , 22

t he Manua l o f Equ i ne Den t i s t r y wa s c i t ed i n s e v e r a l 23

i ns t anc e s i n t he s e cond ed i t i on ; i sn ' t t ha t co r r e c t ? 24

I b e l i e v e t h a t ' s c o r r e c t . 25 A .

419

Th i s i s - - t he documen t I ' v e p l a c ed ne x t t o you 1 Q .

i s Page 168 o f t he Se cond Ed i t i on . Cou l d you r e ad 2

Foo t no t e 18 , p l e a s e . 3

18 , A l l e n , T . , 2003 , E x am i n a t i on i n Ma nu a l o f 4 A .

Equ i n e De n t i s t r y , ED , T . A l l e n & Mo s b y , S t . Lou i s , Pa g e 5

49 t o 70 . 6

And cou l d you r e ad t he i nd i c a t i on a t t he t op o f 7 Q .

t he page wha t chap t e r t h i s wa s . 8

Se c t i on 3 on D i a gno s i s .9 A .

Ok a y . Now I ' m pu t t i ng i n f r on t o f you Page 219 10 Q .

o f t he Se cond Ed i t i on o f t he Ba k e r and Ea s l e y t e x t book . 11

Cou l d you r e ad Foo t no t e 1 , p l e a s e . 12

1 , A l l e n , T . , J on a t h a n T . a nd M i l l e r , R . O . , 13 A .

2003 , Sa f e t y I s s u e s a nd Re s t r a i n t P r o c e du r e s i n Ma nu a l 14

o f Equ i n e De n t i s t r y , ED . T . A l l e n , Mo s b y , S t . Lou i s , 15

Pa g e s 43 t h r ough 48 . 16

And Foo t no t e 2 , p l e a s e . 17 Q .

2 , Sc hu l t z , W . , A l l e n , T . M i t z , C . And J ohn s on , 18 A .

T , 2003 , De n t a l Too l s a nd Equ i pme n t i n Ma nu e l o f Equ i n e 19

De n t i s t r y , Ed i t i on T . A l l e n , Mo s b y , S t . Lou i s , Pa g e 17 20

t o 41 . 21


A l l e n , T . , 2003 , O t h e r P r o c e du r e s i n Ma nu e l o f 23 A .

Equ i n e De n t i s t r y , T . A l l e n , Mo s b y , S t . Lou i s , Pa g e s 157 24

t o 173 . 25

420

And cou l d you r e ad t he i nd i c a t i on a t t he t op o f 1 Q .

t he page .2

I t ' s und e r Equ i n e De n t a l Equ i pme n t , Supp l i e s 3 A .

a nd I n s t r ume n t a t i on . 4

I ' m now pu t t i ng i n f r on t o f you Page 247 f r om 5 Q .

t he 2nd Ed i t i on o f Ba k e r and Ea s l e y . Cou l d you r e ad 6

Foo t no t e 7 . 7

7 , A l l e n , T . , J e f f r e y , D . , a nd Mo r i a r i t y , L . A . , 8 A .

2003 , Rou t i n e P r o c e du r e s i n Ma nu a l o f Equ i n e De n t i s t r y , 9

T . A l l e n , Mo s b y , S t . Lou i s , Pa g e s 109 t o 156 .10


49 , M i t z , C . a nd A l l e n , T . , 2003 , De n t i s t r y i n 12 A .

M i n i a t u r e Ho r s e s i n Ma nu a l o f Equ i n e De n t i s t r y , Ed i t i on 13

T . A l l e n , Mo s b y , S t . Lou i s , Pa g e s 175 t o 192 . 14

And t he i nd i c a t i on a t t he t op o f t he page?15 Q .

F r om Co r r e c t i v e s De n t a l P r o c e du r e s . 16 A .

And now Page 265 o f t he Se cond Ed i t i on , 17 Q .

Foo t no t e 56 . 18

56 , Bo i y o r , M . , 2003 , Co r r e c t i on o f B r a c h y 19 A .

Gn a t h i sm i n F o a l s . Th a t me a n s o v e r t h e l ong upp e r j aw . 20

I n Ma nu a l o f Equ i n e De n t i s t r y , Ed i t i on , T . A l l e n , 21

Mo s b y , S t . Lou i s , Pa g e 173 . 22


M i t z , C . a nd A l l e n , T . , 2003 , De n t i s t s T r e a t i n 24 A .

M i n i a t u r e Ho r s e s i n Ma nu a l o f Equ i n e De n t i s t r y , Ed i t i on 25

421

T . A l l e n , Mo s b y o f S t . Lou i s , Pa g e s 175 t o 192 . 1

And t he i nd i c a t i on a t t he t op o f t he page? 2 Q .

F r om Ba s i c Equ i n e O r t hodon t i c s . 3 A .

Ok a y . I s t he T . A l l en r e f e r enc ed i n e a ch o f 4 Q .

t he s e f oo t no t e s you? 5

Ye s . 6 A .

Ok a y . And i t i s r e f e r enc i ng t he book t ha t you 7 Q .

w r o t e? 8

Co r r e c t , y e s .9 A .

We ' v e t a l k ed a l i t t l e b i t i n t h i s c a s e abou t 10 Q .

t he t e a ch i ng t ha t t a k e s p l a c e a t t he s e non - v e t e r i na r i an 11

equ i ne den t a l a c adem i e s . You ha v e some pe r sona l 12

e xpe r i enc e w i t h t h i s , do you no t ? 13

Th a t ' s c o r r e c t . 14 A .

Cou l d you de s c r i be wha t ' s t augh t t he r e? 15 Q .

Ye s . Wh a t i s t a ugh t i n t h e e qu i n e d e n t a l 16 A .

s c hoo l s , l i k e t h e Ac a d emy o f Equ i n e De n t i s t r y a r e t h e 17

t h i ng s t h a t a r e n e c e s s a r y t o e v a l u a t e a ho r s e ' s o r a l 18

c a v i t y , a ho r s e ' s mou t h a nd i t s t e e t h t o s e e wh a t k i nd s 19

o f t h i ng s m i gh t b e i n t e r f e r i ng w i t h t h e ho r s e ' s 20

c om f o r t , p e r f o r ma n c e , l ong e v i t y . And t h e s t ud e n t s a r e 21

a l s o t a ugh t how t o ma n a g e t ho s e p r ob l ems , wh i c h i s 22

r ou t i n e d e n t a l f l o a t i ng . 23

Ok a y . I s t he cu r r i cu l um t he r e b r ok en down i n t o 24 Q .

d i f f e r en t cou r s e s? 25

422

Th e r e a r e s e v e r a l - - t h e r e a r e c ou r s e s a l l t h e 1 A .

wa y f r om a n a t omy , f r om b a s i c s t ud y o f a n a t omy t o 2

s t ud y i ng t h e v a r i ou s k i nd s o f ma l o c c l u s i on s , hoo k s , 3

r amp s , o v e r g r ow t h s , d i f f e r e n t k i nd s o v e r g r ow t h s t h a t 4

o c c u r w i t h i n a ho r s e ' s mou t h . Ye a h , t h e r e ' s s e v e r a l 5

d i f f e r e n t c a t e go r i e s o f c ou r s e s . 6

Who t e a che s t he s e cou r s e s? 7 Q .

Se v e r a l t i me s , a l o t o f p l a c e s v e t e r i n a r i a n s 8 A .

t h a t t e a c h t h em . A l l t h e wa y f r om v e t e r i n a r i a n s t o 9

e v e n s ome huma n d e n t a l p r a c t i t i on e r s t h a t a s s i s t w i t h 10

t h a t . And a l s o , a l o t o f non - v e t e r i n a r y e qu i n e d e n t a l 11

p r a c t i t i on e r s who h a v e on l y don e t hou s a nd s o f ho r s e s . 12

How wou l d you compa r e t he qua l i t y o f 13 Q .

i ns t r uc t i on a t t he Ac ademy o f Equ i ne Den t i s t r y t o t he 14

qua l i t y o f i ns t r uc t i on you r e c e i v ed a t t he Un i v e r s i t y 15

o f M i s sou r i ' s Ve t e r i na r y Schoo l ? 16

Re a l l y , r e a l l y h a r d t o c omp a r e , t h e r e ' s h a r d l y 17 A .

a n y c omp a r i s on . We go t ma y b e a n hou r f r om a v e r y good 18

v e t e r i n a r i a n , Do c t o r J ame s Ka u f ma n . Bu t t h e r e wa s 19

r e a l l y l i t t l e t o no h a nd s - on e x p e r i e n c e o f l oo k i ng i n a 20

ho r s e ' s mou t h a nd ma k i ng a j udgme n t a s t o wh a t wa s 21

no r ma l , wh a t a s a bno r ma l t h e r e . 22

Th e n , a nd r e a l l y un t i l t h e l a s t f ew y e a r s i n 23

t h e v e t e r i n a r y s c hoo l s , t h e t h i ng wa s j u s t t o r emo v e 24

s h a r p po i n t s . And c omp a r e d t o wh a t i s t a ugh t i n t h e 25

423

d e n t a l a c a d em i e s a nd non - v e t e r i n a r y e qu i n e d e n t a l 1

a c a d em i e s now i s v e r y t ho r ough k now l e dg e a nd t r a i n i ng 2

i n good b a s i c d e n t a l f l o a t i ng wh i c h w i l l h e l p ho r s e s 3

l i v e l ong e r b y p r e v e n t i ng mo r e s e r i ou s p r ob l ems l a t e r 4

on . 5

I s e e . I t h i nk I ' d l i k e t o , f l e sh ou t s e ems 6 Q .

l i k e t he w r ong wo r d t o us e , bu t I ' d l i k e t o show you 7

t h i s ho r s e ' s s ku l l t ha t - - we l l f i r s t o f f , c an you 8

i den t i f y t h i s ob j e c t ? 9

L e t ' s s e e . I t h i n k i t ' s on t h e f r on t e nd o f - - 10 A .

t h a t i s a ho r s e ' s s k u l l . 11

And d i d you b r i ng t h i s w i t h you t oda y? 12 Q .

Ye s , I d i d . 13 A .

Ok a y . And do you t h i nk t ha t you cou l d us e t h i s 14 Q .

s ku l l t o i l l us t r a t e some o f wha t you ' v e be en 15

d i s cus s i ng? 16

Su r e , y e s . 17 A .

Ok a y . I gue s s , k i nd o f s t a r t a t t he beg i nn i ng 18 Q .

and e xp l a i n a l i t t l e b i t abou t wha t we ' r e l ook i ng a t , 19

and t hen wha t you l ook f o r a s a f l oa t e r t o de t e r m i ne 20

how t o p r oc e ed . 21

Ok a y . Do e s h e h a v e t o b e swo r n i n f i r s t ?22 A .

No . 23 Q .

Ok a y . A l l r i gh t , f i r s t we wou l d , we wou l d no t e 24 A .

a s t h e ho r s e h a s wa l k e d up t o u s o r a s we wa l k up t o 25

424

t h e ho r s e , h i s ph y s i c a l c ond i t i on , wh i c h i s r e a l l y 1

s l e nd e r a t t h i s po i n t i n t i me , a nd we wou l d no t e t h a t 2

on ou r c h a r t s . And t h e n y ou wou l d f e e l t h e ho r s e ' s , 3

a l l t h e wa y f r om h i s TMJ s , t empo r oma nd i bu l a r j o i n t s t o 4

und e r n e a t h a nd s e e wh a t ' s , i f t h e r e ' s a n y b i g swe l l i ng s 5

o r b i g a bno r ma l a b s c e s s e s o r swe l l i ng s o r a n y t h i ng 6

go i ng on l i k e t h a t , b e c a u s e t h a t m i gh t g i v e y ou 7

f u r t h e r , s ome i nd i c a t i on , a d v a n c e d i nd i c a t i on o f wh a t 8

t o l oo k f o r i n s i d e t h e ho r s e ' s mou t h . Bu t y ou ' r e go i ng 9

t o l oo k i n t h e r e v e r y t ho r ough l y a n ywa y s o y ou don ' t 10

h a v e t o do t h a t , bu t i t ' s a good i d e a j u s t t o g e t a 11

g e n e r a l i d e a o f wh a t ' s go i ng on w i t h t h a t ho r s e . 12

A l l r i gh t , s o t h e n , e v e n i f y ou h a v e n ' t gon e 13

b a c k a nd l oo k e d a t t h e r e a r e nd o f t h e ho r s e , wh e n y ou 14

f i r s t op e n t h i s ho r s e ' s mou t h wh a t y ou ' r e go i ng t o s e e 15

i s , we l l , i f we l oo k a t t h e r e a r e nd we wou l d s e e t h a t 16

i t ' s no t a ma l e , i t ' s a f ema l e , a nd t h e r e a s on we c a n 17

t e l l t h a t i s b e c a u s e t h e s e t e e t h h e r e , t h e numb e r 4 s , 18

t h e upp e r s a nd l owe r s , wh i c h a r e c a l l e d c a n i n e t e e t h , 19

c - a - n - i - n - e , t h e y ' r e v e r y sma l l . Th e y ' r e p r ob a b l y s o 20

sma l l t h a t t h e y wou l d no t h a v e b e e n s how i ng t h r ough t h e 21

gums , t h r ough t h e g i ng i v a l t i s s u e . And t h a t ' s 22

c h a r a c t e r i s t i c o f ma r e s . Th e b i g , l ong , s h a r p t h i ng s 23

t h a t t h e ma l e s h a v e a r e b e c a u s e t h e y do mo s t o f t h e i r 24

f i gh t i ng w i t h ph y s i c a l t h i ng s wh e r e a s t h e f ema l e s b e i ng 25

425

mu c h mo r e c r u e l do i t p s y c ho l og i c a l l y . I ' m s o r r y . 1

So , we s e e t h i s i s a ma r e , a nd we s e e t h a t t h i s 2

ho r s e h a s no t , r e a l l y h a s no t h a d d e c e n t d e n t i s t r y , a nd 3

on e o f t h e f i r s t t h i ng s t h a t we s e e t h e r e - - a l s o , y ou 4

c ou l d a l s o s e e - - y ou l e a r n s ome t h i ng e v e r y t i me y ou 5

l oo k i n a ho r s e ' s mou t h . 6

F o r on e t h i ng , I ' v e h a d t h i s s k u l l f o r s e v e r a l 7

y e a r s a nd I j u s t now s e e t h a t t h i s ho r s e e v i d e n t l y h a d 8

a l owe r wo l f t oo t h r i gh t h e r e , b e c a u s e t h e r e ' s a ho l e 9

r i gh t h e r e wh e r e , ob v i ou s l y , a wo l f t oo t h c ame ou t . 10

I t ' s p r e t t y r a r e . I t h i n k I ' v e s e e n ma y b e f ou r ho r s e s 11

t h a t h a d a l owe r , c a l l e d a wo l f t e e t h . I t ' s a l i t t l e 12

b i t t y t oo t h a bou t t h e s i z e o f on e o f t h e s e c a n i n e s , bu t 13

i t wa s r i gh t h e r e a nd on l y on on e s i d e on t h i s , t h i s 14

ho r s e ( i nd i c a t i ng ) , s o . . .15

And t h e p r ob l em , t h e r e a s on t h a t ' s i mpo r t a n t i s 16

b e c a u s e t h e b i t , a b i t i s i n a ho r s e ' s mou t h a nd i t 17

c ome s b a c k t h a t f a r , i t ' s go i ng t o c ome b a c k t h a t f a r , 18

a nd i t ' s go i ng t o b e p r e t t y p a i n f u l t o t h a t ho r s e . So 19

t h a t ' s wh y i t ' s i mpo r t a n t t o t a k e t h a t ou t i f y ou f i nd 20

t h em , bu t y ou don ' t a l wa y s - - i t ' s no t a b i g i s s u e mo s t 21

o f t h e t i me . 22

Th e n y ou s e e t h a t t h e r e a r e no b i t s e a t s on 23

t h i s ho r s e a nd y ou s e e - - b i t s e a t me a n s , a s Do c t o r 24

J ame s Ma r a l i t e ( phon e t i c ) s a i d i n a 1906 pub l i c a t i on , 25

426

i t ' s a b l e nd i ng o f t h e s e a t o f t h e b i t , wh e r e y ou go i n 1

w i t h a r a s p a nd y ou t a k e o f f t h e s h a r p a ng l e s h e r e s o 2

t h a t t h e b i t c a n s i t mo r e c om f o r t a b l y t h e r e w i t hou t 3

p i n c h i ng , d e c r e a s e t h e c h a n c e o f i t p i n c h i ng t h e c h e e k s 4

o f t h e ho r s e . I t ma k e e v e r y t h i ng b e t t e r f o r e v e r y bod y 5

a r ound t h e ho r s e . 6

A l s o we c a n s e e t h a t t h e r e a r e s ome p r e t t y 7

s h a r p po i n t s on t h e ou t s i d e o f t h e upp e r e dg e s o f t h i s 8

ho r s e ' s mou t h . Now t h i s wa s p r ob a b l y k i nd o f a 9

d r a f t - t y p e ho r s e , i t h a s a p r e t t y b i g h e a d , a nd 10

t h e r e ' s , l i k e , a l mo s t r oom t o p l a y f oo t b a l l i n t h e i r 11

mou t h . 12

So a s a r e s u l t o f wh i c h t h e y a l l v e r y s e l dom 13

h a v e bu c k l e u l c e r a t i on s o r u l c e r a t i on s i n t h e bu c k l e 14

t i s s u e o f t h e l i n i ng o f t h e c h e e k s , b e c a u s e t h e r e ' s s o 15

mu c h r oom i n t h e r e , a s oppo s e d t o a l o t o f o t h e r b r e e d s 16

o f ho r s e s wh e r e t h e y ' r e no t n e a r l y a s l a r g e , a nd 17

t h e y ' v e go t a b i g mu s c l e h e r e , t h e ma s s e t e r o r ma s s e t e r 18

mu s c l e pu s h i ng i n , a nd t h e n t h e s e po i n t s t h e n a r e b e i ng 19

pu s h e d on t o t h e i n s i d e o f t h e c h e e k a nd c u t t i ng b i g 20

ho l e s i n t h e ho r s e ' s c h e e k s . 21

And t h a t ' s s ome t h i ng t h a t we we r e no t 22

i n t r odu c e d t o a t a l l , bu t i t i s a v e r y b i g i s s u e i n a 23

l o t o f p e r f o r ma n c e ho r s e s . And i t c e r t a i n l y i n t e r f e r e s 24

w i t h t h e i r p e r f o r ma n c e wh e n i t ' s bo t h e r i ng t h em t h a t 25

427

wa y . 1

When you s a y you we r e no t i n t r oduc ed t o i t a t 2 Q .

a l l , a r e you r e f e r enc i ng you r v e t e r i na r y s choo l ? 3

Co r r e c t , c o r r e c t . Oh , t h a t ' s on e o f t h e mo s t 4 A .

i mpo r t a n t t h i ng s s t r e s s e d i n t h e Equ i n e De n t a l Ac a d emy , 5

t h e s c hoo l s t h a t a r e non v e t e r i n a r i a n , b e c a u s e t h a t ' s 6

wh a t t h e y do , s t ud y t h e ho r s e ' s mou t h , a nd t h e y r e a l i z e 7

t h e i mpo r t a n c e o f t h e s e t h i ng s . 8

And a l s o , t h e n , ma l o c c l u s i on s , i n o t h e r wo r d s , 9

t h i ng s t h a t a r e c ommon bu t c a l l e d a bno r ma l , we l l , i t ' s 10

h a r d t o t e l l wh e r e y ou d r aw t h e l i n e , wh a t ' s a bno r ma l , 11

b e c a u s e i t i s no r ma l f o r a ho r s e t o d i e a t 18 t o 20 12

y e a r s o f a g e i n t h e w i l d , wh e r e a s i n c a p t i v i t y , wh e n 13

y ou g i v e t h em t h e b e n e f i t s o f l o t s o f t h i ng s t h a t we 14

k now now t o do , t h e y go i n t o t h e i r 30 s a nd 40 s a nd e v e n 15

50 s on r a r e o c c a s i on s . Th e r e c o r d now i s 51 o r ' 2 . So 16

i t ' s k i nd o f h a r d t o t e l l wh a t y ou c a l l no r ma l . I 17

me a n , i s no r ma l t o h a v e t h i ng s i n t h e i r mou t h t h a t a r e 18

go i ng t o s ho r t e n t h e i r l i v e s ? 19

L i k e t h i s ho r s e , f o r e x amp l e , h a s v e r y dom i n a n t 20

upp e r 6 ' s . Th e numb e r i ng s y s t em i s 1 , 2 , 3 t h r ough 11 , 21

a nd t h i s ho r s e h a s v e r y dom i n a n t upp e r 6 s a nd i t ' s 22

f i r s t p r e - mo l a r - - a c t u a l l y i t ' s t h e s e c ond p r e - mo l a r , 23

t h e f i r s t p r e - mo l a r wou l d b e a no t h e r t oo t h t h a t ' s no t 24

t h e r e a n ymo r e , bu t i t ' s t h e f i r s t b i g c h e e k t oo t h . And 25

428

i t ' s dom i n a n t , a nd s o i t ' s go i ng t o - - a c t u a l l y , t h e s e 1

c ome down l ow e nough t h a t t h e y , t h e y wou l d p r ob a b l y 2

bo t h e r t h i s ho r s e qu i t e a b i t , b e c a u s e t h e y ' r e s t i c k i ng 3

down he r e so l ow . 4

And v e r y o f t e n , go i ng a l ong w i t h t h a t , b e c a u s e 5

t h e s e , t h i s upp e r r ow o f c h e e k t e e t h i s r e l a t i v e l y 6

f o r wa r d c omp a r e d t o t h e l owe r r ow o f c h e e k t e e t h , 7

t h e r e ' s v e r y f r e qu e n t l y a l a r g e r amp s t i c k i ng up i n t h e 8

l owe r 11 , t h e v e r y l a s t wh i c h i s s t i c k i ng up a nd 9

s ome t i me s a c t u a l l y c a u s i ng t h e s k u l l t o r e s h a p e b y 10

mo v i ng awa y f r om i t . 11

And s o t h a t ' s v e r y d a ng e r ou s f o r t h e ho r s e s a nd 12

t h e i r h a nd l e r s o r own e r s , b e c a u s e wh e n y ou a s k a ho r s e 13

t o t u c k h i s h e a d , a nd i f i t h a s s ome b i g , l owe r 11 14

s p i k e s s t i c k i ng up t h e r e , t h e ho r s e ma y f l i p o v e r 15

b a c kwa r d s j u s t l i k e t h a t a nd l a nd on t h e own e r , wh i c h 16

i s a b a d wa y t o t h e e nd . 17

So e s s en t i a l l y wha t you ' r e s a y i ng i s - - we l l , 18 Q .

l e t me a s k : So t he pu r pos e o f f l oa t i ng t he t e e t h i s 19

wha t ? 20

I s t o t a k e o f f s h a r p e n ame l po i n t s , a nd , t h a t ' s 21 A .

e x c e l l e n t , g r e a t f o r i mme d i a t e c om f o r t , bu t f o r 22

l ong e v i t y we n e e d t o c o r r e c t t h e , wh a t ' s c a l l e d , y ou 23

k now , l e v e l i ng t h e d e n t a l a r c a d e s . I n o t h e r wo r d s , 24

t a k e down a n y p r o t r u s i on s , a n y p r o t ub e r a n t t e e t h t h a t 25

429

a r e go i ng t o s ho r t e n t h e l i f e o f t h e oppo s i ng t e e t h a nd 1

t h e r e f o r e o f t h e ho r s e . 2

Ok a y . So wha t a r e t he conc e r ns i f t he sha r p 3 Q .

ename l po i n t s a r e no t r emov ed? 4

Con c e r n s a r e t h a t t h e ho r s e w i l l - - f i r s t o f f , 5 A .

i t c a n , i n ho r s e s t h a t a r e no t s u c h s t r ong s t o i c s , a nd 6

s ome o f t h em a r e s t o i c s , a nd t h e y ' r e s o s t o i c a l t h a t 7

t h e y c a n a pp e a r no r ma l w i t h d e a d , l oo s e , r o t t e n t e e t h . 8

Bu t on ho r s e s t h a t a r e no t t h a t wa y , e s p e c i a l l y 9

a f t e r y ou t a k e t h e s h a r p po i n t s , a nd t h e y s a y , oh , t h i s 10

i s t h e f i r s t t i me s i n c e I wa s s i x mon t h s o f a g e I 11

h a v e n ' t h a d a n y s h a r p po i n t s c u t t i ng me . So t h e n , wh e n 12

t ho s e po i n t s s t a r t t o c ome b a c k , t h e n t h e y s t a r t t o b e 13

s e n s i t i v e t o i t a nd s t a r t t o s how , a nd t h e y won ' t 14

p e r f o r m n e a r l y a s we l l . 15

Th e y a c t u a l l y ma y , w i t h t ho s e po i n t s a r e 16

c a u s i ng u l c e r a t i on i n t h e ho r s e ' s c h e e k s , t h i s i s 17

a l l ow i ng , a c c o r d i ng t o Do c t o r J ame s Tu r k a t t h e 18

Un i v e r s i t y o f M i s s ou r i Ve t e r i n a r y Pa t ho l og y , t h i s i s 19

a l l ow i ng t o x i n s a nd b a c t e r i a t h r ough t h e c o l d i n t ho s e 20

c h e e k s i n t o t h e ho r s e ' s s y s t em , a nd t h e r e f o r e 21

c on t r i bu t i ng t owa r d s t h i ng s l i k e l ung d i s e a s e , l i v e r 22

d i s e a s e , c ong e s t i v e h e a r t f a i l u r e , a l l k i nd s o f 23

p r ob l ems , t h e y ' r e go i ng t o s ho r t e n a ho r s e ' s l i f e 24

b e c a u s e t ho s e u l c e r a t i on s a r e a l l ow i ng e n t r a n c e o f 25

430

t o x i n s a nd b a c t e r i a a nd v i r u s e s i n t o a ho r s e ' s s y s t em .1

So , i n add i t i on t o j us t com f o r t , r emov i ng t he 2 Q .

sha r p ename l po i n t s de c r e a s e s t he i nc i denc e o f t he s e 3

l e s i ons ; i s t ha t wha t you ' r e s a y i ng?4

Th a t ' s e x a c t l y r i gh t . 5 A .

Ok a y . And onc e t he l e s i ons a r e ou t o f t he wa y , 6 Q .

i t ' s a l owe r t h r e a t f o r t he s e o t he r comp l i c a t i ons? 7

Th a t ' s r i gh t . Th e c h e e k u l c e r a t i on s w i l l , 8 A .

l a c e r a t i on s a nd / o r u l c e r a t i on s w i l l h e a l up w i t h i n 7 t o 9

10 d a y s a f t e r y ou t a k e t h e po i n t s o f f . Bu t t h e y ' l l b e 10

b a c k . E x c u s e me , I ' m s o r r y . 11

So how wou l d one i den t i f y t he sha r p ename l 12 Q .

po i n t s? 13

Th e r e ' s a c oup l e wa y s . I t ' s k i nd o f f unn y , t h e 14 A .

f i r s t t i me I r e a d t h i s a bou t t h e wa y t o do t h a t i s c ome 15

up a nd , a nd pu s h on t h e i r c h e e k s a nd s e e i f t h e y 16

ob j e c t . We l l t o me t h a t ' s l i k e , l e t ' s f i nd ou t o f y ou r 17

f oo t ' s b r o k e n b y s t e pp i ng on y ou r t o e . I me a n , i t ' s a 18

who l e l o t sma r t e r t o op e n t h e i r mou t h , l oo k i n , r e a c h 19

i n , l oo k i n a nd f e e l i n a nd s e e . I f y ou c a n f e e l t h e 20

ho l e s i n t h e c h e e k s , f e e l t h e s h a r p po i n t s , t h e y ' r e 21

s h a r p e nough t o do t h a t . So I t h i n k t h a t ' s b y f a r t h e 22

b e s t wa y i s t o l oo k a nd / o r r e a c h i n t o t h e ho r s e ' s mou t h 23

a nd s e e wh a t ' s go i ng on . 24

Ok a y . 25 Q .

431

And t h a t wa s n ' t t a ugh t i n v e t s c hoo l s . 1 A .

Now , c an t ha t be done w i t hou t s eda t i on? 2 Q .

Ye s , i t c a n . 3 A .

Ok a y . Now , some peop l e choos e t o us e s eda t i on 4 Q .

t hough , don ' t t he y? 5

R i gh t . Mo s t o f u s v e t e r i n a r i a n s u s e s e d a t i on . 6 A .

I f someone i s no t us i ng s eda t i on , t hough , wou l d 7 Q .

t he y be ab l e t o do t ha t so r t o f an i nspe c t i on and 8

a s c e r t a i n t he ne ed f o r f l oa t i ng? 9

Ye s , t h e y c e r t a i n l y wou l d . 10 A .

Le t ' s t a l k a l i t t l e b i t abou t t he a c t ua l 11 Q .

p r oc e s s o f f l oa t i ng . Ac t ua l l y , do you ha v e a s ens e o f 12

how f a r ba c k i n h i s t o r y f l oa t i ng goe s a s a p r a c t i c e? 13

I k now t h a t a s e a r l y a s 1906 t h e r e wa s a 14 A .

pub l i c a t i on on i t . I t ' s my und e r s t a nd i ng t h a t 15

c e n t u r i e s b e f o r e t h a t i t wa s r e c ogn i z e d t h a t t h e po i n t s 16

n e e d e d t o b e t a k e n o f f , bu t t h e f i r s t on e I c ou l d quo t e 17

f r om wou l d b e i n 1906 f r om Do c t o r J ame s M i r l a k 18

( phon e t i c ) . 19

And wha t k i nds t oo l s d i d t he y us e a t t ha t t i me? 20 Q .

Th e y h a d s ome f oo t - powe r e d d r i v e n r o t a r y 21 A .

i n s t r ume n t s . And a l s o h a nd f l o a t s w i t h f i l e s on t h e 22

e nd o f a l ong h a nd l e . Bu t t h e y a l s o h a d f oo t p e d a l 23

powe r e d l i k e a n o l d S i ng e r s ew i ng ma c h i n e t h a t y ou 24

wou l d pump on a nd g e t r o t a r y i n s t r ume n t s i n t o t h e 25

432

ho r s e ' s mou t h , a nd t h a t wa s b e f o r e we h a d t h e s e d a t i on 1

p r odu c t s t h a t we h a v e now . 2

Bu t so , I gue s s I ' m i n t e r e s t ed i n l e a r n i ng a 3 Q .

l i t t l e b i t mo r e abou t hand f l oa t s . Do you ha v e any 4

s ens e o f how f a r ba c k hand f l oa t s go a s a t oo l ? 5

I don ' t . No t b e y ond 1906 , I r e a l l y don ' t k now . 6 A .

I t p r ob a b l y wa s l ong b e y ond t h a t bu t . . . 7

Ok a y . Wha t a r e some o f t he conc e r ns t ha t you 8 Q .

wou l d ha v e i f , s a y , an uneduc a t ed pe r son l i k e my s e l f 9

wa s i n t e r e s t ed i n r emov i ng sha r p ename l po i n t s f r om a 10

ho r s e ' s t e e t h? 11

I ' d b e c on c e r n e d a bou t t h e ho r s e ' s s a f e t y a nd 12 A .

y ou r s . Be c a u s e i t t a k e s a l o t o f p r a c t i c e d e a l i ng w i t h 13

ho r s e s a nd w i t h ho r s ema n s h i p w i t h k now i ng wh a t i s o k a y 14

w i t h t h e ho r s e f o r y ou t o do , a nd t h e n h a v i ng a p r e t t y 15

good i d e a i f wh a t t h i ng s a r e s h a p e d l i k e i n t h e r e s o 16

t h a t y ou ' r e no t go i ng t o i n j u r e h i m o r h e r a nd go t oo 17

f a r b a c k o r t oo f a r up on t h e s i d e s o f t h e d e n t a l 18

a r c a d e s o r r ows o f t e e t h a nd s c r a p i ng awa y g i ng i v a l o r 19

gum t i s s u e a nd t h e r e f o r e c a u s i ng h emo r r h a g e . 20

O r t a k i ng , e v e n , e v e n w i t h e x c e l l e n t c a r b i d e 21

e qu i pme n t we h a v e now , s ome o f t h e s e f l o a t s I h a v e no 22

doub t y ou c ou l d t a k e wa y t oo mu c h v e r y qu i c k l y a nd do 23

j u s t a s mu c h o r mo r e d ama g e a s y ou c a n w i t h powe r 24

e qu i pme n t . I t ' s e a s i e r a nd l e s s e f f o r t w i t h powe r 25

433

e qu i pme n t , bu t s t i l l w i t h h a nd f l o a t s y ou c a n t a k e awa y 1

t oo mu c h a nd hu r t t h em b a d l y . 2

So t h a t wou l d b e my c on c e r n wou l d b e , I ' d 3

r a t h e r s e e y ou go t o on e o f t h e s c hoo l s o r go wa t c h 4

s ome bod y do a l o t o f d e n t i s t r y b e f o r e y ou a bu s e y ou r 5

ho r s e . 6

So you wou l d no t adv i s e an un t r a i ned pe r son t o 7 Q .

engage i n t h i s p r a c t i c e , r i gh t ?8

R i gh t . 9 A .

Ok a y . So i f I wan t ed t o s t a r t down t he pa t h o f 10 Q .

be com i ng p r o f i c i en t , wha t wou l d t he f i r s t s t ep be t ha t 11

you wou l d r e commend? 12

I ' d r e c omme nd go i ng w i t h s ome on e who do e s a l o t 13 A .

o f e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y t o s e e i f i t ' s r e a l l y wh a t y ou wa n t 14

t o g e t i n t o , a nd t h e n i f y ou s t i l l - - y ou d i d t h a t a nd 15

s aw t h a t y ou s t i l l wa n t e d t o do i t , I ' d r e c omme nd go i ng 16

t o on e o f t h e good e qu i n e d e n t a l a c a d em i e s . 17

Ok a y . A r e you awa r e o f any p r e - r equ i s i t e s t ha t 18 Q .

one wou l d ne ed be f o r e a t t end i ng one o f t he s e a c adem i e s? 19

I ' m no t . 20 A .

Ok a y . A r e you awa r e o f o t he r v e t e r i na r i ans who 21 Q .

ha v e a t t ended t he s e a c adem i e s?22

Ye s . 23 A .

Do you ha v e any s ens e o f how many o t he r 24 Q .

v e t e r i na r i ans m i gh t ha v e a t t ended t he s e a c adem i e s? 25

434

I ' d b e gu e s s i ng . 1 A .

Ok a y . 2 Q .

I t h i n k - - I k now b e c a u s e a l o t o f 3 A .

v e t e r i n a r i a n s wou l d h a t e t o a dm i t t h a t t h e y ' d h a v e t h e 4

a ud a c i t y t o go t o a l e s s e r e s t a b l i s hme n t t h a n a 5

v e t e r i n a r y s c hoo l t o a c t u a l l y l e a r n s ome t h i ng a bou t 6

e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y . Be c a u s e we ' r e k i nd o f t hough t t o 7

k now e v e r y t h i ng a bou t a n i ma l s wh e n we g e t ou t o f v e t 8

s c hoo l , wh i c h i s c e r t a i n l y no t t r u e . 9

Ok a y . So we c an ' t , we c an ' t ge t a so l i d numbe r 10 Q .

o f how many v e t e r i na r i ans m i gh t ha v e a c t ua l l y a t t ended 11

t he s e s choo l s? 12

No . I k now , I k now o f t h r e e t h a t d e f i n i t e l y 13 A .

h a v e , b e c a u s e t h e y s aw t h a t t h a t ' s wh a t t h e y n e e d e d t o 14

do t o h e l p ho r s e s t h r ough d e n t i s t r y , bu t I don ' t h a v e 15

a n i d e a . I s u s p e c t t h e numb e r s a r e p r ob a b l y , oh , 50 o r 16

a hund r e d , bu t I ' m gu e s s i ng . 17

Ok a y . Do you know when v e t e r i na r i ans began t o 18 Q .

s t a r t ha v i ng i n t e r e s t i n t he p r a c t i c e o f f l oa t i ng 19

t e e t h? 20

Ye s . I c a n g i v e y ou k i nd o f a r ough t i me l i n e 21 A .

o f i t . I n , i n t h e e a r l y 80 s a gu y n ame Da l e J e f f r e y 22

s t a r t e d go i ng a l o t o f e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y . He h a d t h e 23

a ud a c i t y t o b e h e l p i ng ho r s e s l i v e l ong e r w i t hou t b e i ng 24

a v e t e r i n a r i a n . 25

435

Ve t e r i n a r i a n s i n Ne b r a s k a , wh i c h i s wh e r e h e 1

wa s wo r k i ng , t oo k h i m t o c ou r t b e c a u s e h e wa s g e t t i ng 2

i n t h e i r po c k e t boo k s , t h e y f e l t l i k e . Th e y t oo k h i m 3

a l l t h e wa y t o t h e Sup r eme Cou r t , b e c a u s e h e h a d a l o t 4

o f s uppo r t e r s i n ho r s e own e r s c om i ng a nd t e s t i f y i ng how 5

mu c h mo r e t ho r ough wo r k h e d i d t h a n t h e v e t e r i n a r i a n s . 6

Cou l d no t g e t v e t e r i n a r i a n s t o do i t . He - - 7

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ob j e c t i on a t t h i s po i n t . The 8

que s t i on wa s when v e t e r i na r i ans s t a r t ed do i ng i t , and 9

t he w i t ne s s ' answe r i s a l r e ady s e t t i ng up some t h i ng 10

wh i ch oc cu r r ed i n t he 1980s , and h i s own t e s t i mony wa s 11

t ha t v e t e r i na r i ans we r e do i ng t he wo r k a t t ha t t i me , so 12

t he answe r i s non r e spons i v e t o t he que s t i on . 13

THE COURT : I t h i nk i t i s non r e spons i v e . You m i gh t 14

mov e on . 15

THE W I TNESS : So r r y . 16

( BY MR . ROLAND ) Le t ' s s t ep e v en f u r t he r ba c k . 17 Q .

You ' v e r e f e r enc ed t e x t f r om 1906 . Do you ha v e any 18

s ens e o f wha t t he s t a t e o f v e t e r i na r y p r a c t i c e wa s i n 19

1906 a s r e l a t i ng t o f l oa t i ng ho r s e s ' t e e t h? 20

Ye s , i t wa s , i t wa s b e n e a t h - - s e ems t o b e b y 21 A .

v e t e r i n a r i a n s a s b e n e a t h t h e i r d i gn i t y t o do e qu i n e 22

d e n t a l f l o a t i ng . 23

Ok a y . 24 Q .

Ye a h . Th a t wa s f r om a boo k t h a t I h a d b y 25 A .

436

Do c t o r J ame s M i r l a k ( phon e t i c ) . 1

Du r i ng t he 20 t h c en t u r y , a r e you awa r e i f 2 Q .

v e t e r i na r i ans by and l a r ge made t e e t h f l oa t i ng a 3

s i gn i f i c an t pa r t o f t he i r p r a c t i c e s? 4

I b e l i e v e t h a t e qu i n e t e e t h f l o a t i ng h a s no t 5 A .

b e e n a p a r t o f , o f s i gn i f i c a n t numb e r s o f v e t e r i n a r y 6

p r a c t i c e s un t i l j u s t t h e l a s t t e n y e a r s o r s o . 7

Wha t mo t i v a t ed t ha t change? Why d i d 8 Q .

v e t e r i na r i ans be come i n t e r e s t ed i n den t i s t r y? 9

I b e l i e v e i t wa s b e c a u s e t h e v e t e r i n a r i a n s ' 10 A .

c l i e n t s , ho r s e - own i ng c l i e n t s s t a r t e d t o s e e t h e 11

b e n e f i t s , t h e f e a t u r e s a nd b e n e f i t s o f good d e n t a l 12

f l o a t i ng , a nd a s a r e s u l t t h e v e t e r i n a r i a n s b e c ame 13

awa r e o f i t , a nd t h e n t h e y r e a l i z e d t h e y we r e m i s s i ng 14

ou t on t h a t p a r t o f ho r s e h e a l t h c a r e . So t h e n t h e y 15

s t a r t e d l oo k i ng a t i t h a r d e r a nd h a r d e r a nd do i ng 16

t h i ng s l i k e v e t e r i n a r y s c hoo l s , h i r i ng t h e non - v e t s t o 17

t e a c h t h em . 18

Can you t h i nk o f any spe c i f i c non - v e t s who ha v e 19 Q .

be en h i r ed t o t e a ch a t v e t e r i na r y s choo l ? 20

Ye a h , I c a n t h i n k o f f ou r o f t h em . 21 A .

Cou l d you name t hos e , p l e a s e . 22 Q .

Ye s . Ton y Ba s i l e t a ugh t a t t h e Un i v e r s i t y o f 23 A .

Ca l i f o r n i a Da v i s . Ga i l Eme r s on t a ugh t a t t h e 24

Un i v e r s i t y o f Pe nn s y l v a n i a , a nd t wo b r o t h e r s t e a c h a t 25

437

M i c h i g a n S t a t e - - Rub i n , t h e Rub i n b r o t h e r s , L a n c e 1

S t e v e . 2

And t he y a r e t e a ch i ng equ i ne den t i s t r y a t t he s e 3 Q .

s choo l s? 4

Th e y h a v e don e s o i n t h e p a s t . I t h i n k - - I ' m 5 A .

no t s u r e how ma n y o f t h em s t i l l a r e . I t h i n k 6

v e t e r i n a r i a n s c hoo l s b e c ame emb a r r a s s e d b y t h e f a c t 7

t h a t t h e y we r e a l l ow i ng , a s k i ng s ome t h i ng f r om 8

non - v e t e r i n a r i a n s . I t h i n k t h e y t e r m i n a t e d . A l t hough 9

t h e Rub i n b r o t h e r s ma y s t i l l b e i n M i c h i g a n . I t h i n k 10

t he y a r e . 11

Ok a y . I ' v e be en ga t he r i ng f r om you r t e s t i mony 12 Q .

t ha t t he r e ' s some so r t o f an i mos i t y be t we en 13

v e t e r i na r i ans and l a y f l oa t e r s . Cou l d you e xp l a i n why 14

t ha t m i gh t be . 15

I t h i n k p a r t o f i t i s , i s a c t u a l s i n c e r e 16 A .

i gno r a n c e on t h e p a r t o f s ome v e t e r i n a r i a n s who ma y 17

r e a l l y b e l i e v e t h a t t h e y k now mo r e t h a n t h e 18

non - v e t e r i n a r y e qu i n e d e n t a l p r a c t i t i on e r s . Bu t t h a t 19

ma y b e k i nd o f a Po l l y a nn a l oo k a t i t b e c a u s e I t h i n k 20

mo s t o f i t i s f i n a n c i a l . 21

I t h i n k t h a t t h e v e t e r i n a r i a n s do no t l i k e t o 22

g i v e up a n y p a r t o f t h a t , wh e t h e r t h e y c a n do a good 23

j ob a t i t no t . And s o t h e y w i l l s ome t i me s s t op wo r k i ng 24

f o r a ho r s e own e r i f t h a t ho r s e own e r h a s a s k e d a 25

438

non - v e t e r i n a r i a n t o do t h e d e n t a l f l o a t i ng . So t h a t ' s 1

t h e wa y I s e e i t , f r om wh a t I ' v e s e e n o v e r t h e l a s t 2

c oup l e o f d e c a d e s . 3

F r om you r pe r spe c t i v e i s t he r e a d i f f e r enc e i n 4 Q .

wha t t he cos t i s t o an an i ma l owne r a s f a r a s whe t he r 5

t he y ha v e a v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t t he i r ho r s e ' s t e e t h o r 6

whe t he r t he y ha v e a non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t t he i r 7

ho r s e ' s t e e t h? 8

Ye a h , t h e r e ' s a b i g c o s t d i f f e r e n c e . F o r 9 A .

e x amp l e , l i k e my b a s e r a t e i s 175 ; 140 i f t h e y b r i ng 10

t h em t o u s i n t h e boondo c k s o f Pa t t e r s on , M i s s ou r i , a nd 11

I t h i n k a l o t o f my non - v e t e r i n a r y e qu i n e d e n t a l 12

p r a c t i t i on e r s , c o l l e a gu e s do i t f o r a n ywh e r e f r om 50 t o 13

a 100 . I ' m no t s u r e wh a t t h e r a ng e s a r e , bu t qu i t e a 14

b i t l owe r . 15

Ok a y . How much i n t e r a c t i on do you ha v e w i t h 16 Q .

ho r s e owne r s? 17

A l o t . I me a n , I do a l l my ho r s e d e n t i s t r y i n 18 A .

a b i g mob i l e e qu i n e d e n t a l un i t , wh i c h i s a b i g ho r s e 19

t r a i l e r , 8 f e e t t a l l , 8 f e e t w i d e a nd 24 f e e t l ong , a nd 20

t h e ho r s e s a r e i n a s e t o f s t o c k s t h e r e , a nd I a c t u a l l y 21

bough t a b i gg e r t r a i l e r j u s t f o r t h e pu r po s e o f 22

a l l ow i ng mo r e p e op l e t o c ome i n f r on t a nd wa t c h s o t h e y 23

c a n s e e wh a t t h e y ' r e p a y i ng f o r , s e e wh a t d i d o r d i d 24

no t h a pp e n w i t h t h e p r e v i ou s p r a c t i t i on e r , o r t o l e t 25

439

t h em k now wh a t ' s i n t h e ho r s e ' s mou t h . 1

Ok a y . So am I unde r s t and i ng co r r e c t l y t ha t , 2 Q .

t ha t you t a l k t o t he s e ho r s e owne r s a f a i r b i t ? 3

Ye s . 4 A .

Do you e v e r t a l k t o t hem abou t t he , t he cos t o f 5 Q .

t he s e r v i c e s t ha t you p r ov i de? 6

Ye s , e v e r y t i me . Be c a u s e we don ' t do a n y 7 A .

b i l l i ng , s o t h e y go t t o p a y r i gh t t h e n . 8

Do t he y e v e r e xp r e s s t o you d i f f i cu l t y i n 9 Q .

pa y i ng f o r t he s e r v i c e s? 10

On c e i n awh i l e . And t h a t ' s wh e n I t e l l t h em 11 A .

t h e y c a n s p l i t i t up i n t o a c oup l e c h e c k s a nd po s t d a t e 12

on e i f t h e y wa n t t o . And o f c ou r s e t h e wa y t h e y r e a l l y 13

s p e a k t o y ou i s i f t h e y don ' t c a l l y ou b a c k . And t h e n 14

y ou k now t h e y c a l l e d s ome bod y e l s e who ma y do v e r y good 15

wo r k , a nd I w i l l n e v e r d e n y t h a t s ome o t h e r p e op l e t h a t 16

a r e no t - - a c t u a l l y t h e i r c h a n c e s a r e a l o t b e t t e r o f 17

g e t t i ng good wo r k don e i f t h e y c a l l s ome bod y who ' s no t 18

a v e t e r i n a r i a n , who h a s n ' t - - who ' s j u s t s t ud i e d t h e 19

ho r s e f l o a t i ng . 20

I n you r conv e r s a t i ons w i t h ho r s e owne r s , do 21 Q .

t he y e v e r r e f l e c t on o t he r peop l e t ha t ha v e p r ov i ded 22

s e r v i c e f o r t hem? 23

Do t h e own e r s r e f l e c t on o t h e r - -24 A .

Ye s .25 Q .

440

Ye s , t h e y do . I me a n , t h e y ' l l s a y t h i ng s l i k e , 1 A .

t h e y d i d o r d i dn ' t l oo k i n t h e ho r s e ' s mou t h o r 2

wha t e v e r . 3

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ob j e c t i on , wha t ho r s e owne r s s a y 4

t o h i m a s t o wha t e x am i na t i on wa s done wou l d be 5

he a r s a y .6

MR . ROLAND : The que s t i on wa s , do t he y e v e r r e f l e c t 7

on t hem ; I d i dn ' t a s k f o r any pa r t i cu l a r subs t anc e .8

THE COURT : I ' l l sus t a i n i t .9

MR . ROLAND : A l l r i gh t . 10

( BY MR . ROLAND ) I s t he s ens e t ha t you ge t f r om 11 Q .

t a l k i ng w i t h t he s e o t he r ho r s e owne r s , do you ge t a 12

s ens e o f whe t he r t he y t yp i c a l l y p r e f e r t o ha v e 13

v e t e r i na r i ans o r non - v e t e r i na r i ans f l oa t t he i r an i ma l s ' 14

t e e t h? 15

Ye s , I do . 16 A .

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ob j e c t i on , a s k i ng f o r a s ens e i s 17

t he s ame a s a s k i ng f o r a he a r s a y s t a t emen t .18

MR . ROLAND : I d i s ag r e e . I be l i e v e t ha t we ' v e 19

a s k i ng f o r an i mp r e s s i on t ha t he ge t s f r om engag i ng 20

w i t h o t he r peop l e . We ' r e no t a s k i ng h i m t o r e l a y t he 21

de t a i l s o f wha t o t he r peop l e ha v e s a i d , we ' r e a s k i ng 22

f o r h i s ov e r a l l i mp r e s s i on . 23

MR . FROWNFELTER : He ' s s e e k i ng t o p r ov e t he 24

p r e f e r enc e s o f ho r s e owne r s by ha v i ng Doc t o r A l l en 25

441

t e s t i f y a s t o wha t ho r s e owne r s ha v e t o l d h i m i n t e r ms 1

o f howe v e r you de s c r i be i mp r e s s i ons , p r e f e r enc e s , 2

wha t e v e r . Wha t he ' s a s k i ng f o r i s wha t do ho r s e owne r s 3

t h i nk , and t ha t ' s he a r s a y . 4

THE COURT : I ' l l sus t a i n t he ob j e c t i on . I t h i nk 5

you cou l d - - a c t ua l l y wha t I w i l l do i s I w i l l o v e r r u l e 6

t he ob j e c t i on on l y i n t he s ens e t ha t I t h i nk t ha t i t 7

ne eds - - t he r e m i gh t be a l i t t l e mo r e vo i r d i r e o r wha t 8

t he sou r c e s o f t h i s wou l d be . So i f you cou l d a s k h i m 9

t hos e que s t i ons I m i gh t be a l i t t l e mov e i nc l i ned . So 10

I ' l l ov e r r u l e t he ob j e c t i on f r om t he i mp r e s s i on , bu t I 11

wou l d l i k e t o know wha t t he sou r c e o f t ha t i n f o r ma t i on 12

i s . 13

MR . ROLAND : Ok a y .14

( BY MR . ROLAND ) Do you r e c a l l any spe c i f i c 15 Q .

conv e r s a t i ons w i t h ho r s e owne r s r ega r d i ng t he i r 16

p r e f e r enc e f o r , f o r v e t e r i na r i ans v e r sus 17

non - v e t e r i na r i ans o r v i c e v e r s a? 18

Ye s . 19 A .

Ha v e you de v e l oped an op i n i on ba s ed on t hos e 20 Q .

conv e r s a t i on? 21

Ye s . 22 A .

And i n you r op i n i on , ba s ed on t he s e 23 Q .

i n t e r a c t i ons , wou l d ho r s e owne r s - - do ho r s e owne r s 24

ha v e a p r e f e r enc e r ega r d i ng whe t he r t e e t h w i l l be 25

442

f l oa t ed by v e t e r i na r i ans o r non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r s? 1

Ye s . 2 A .

Ok a y . Wha t i s you r op i n i on ba s ed on t h i s 3 Q .

i n f o r ma t i on?4

My op i n i on i s t h a t a l o t o f ho r s e own e r s h a v e 5 A .

t h e m i s t a k e n i d e a t h a t v e t e r i n a r i a n s a r e go i ng t o do a 6

b e t t e r j ob o f e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y b e c a u s e o f a l l t h e 7

d i f f e r e n t t h i ng s t h a t we h a v e s t ud i e d . Bu t t h e n wh a t 8

t h e y s e e wh e n we do t h e wo r k i s , f o r on e t h i ng I - - 9

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ' m go i ng t o ob j e c t a t t h i s po i n t 10

t ha t t he answe r i s non r e spons i v e , and t he w i t ne s s i s 11

wad i ng i n t o t he a r e a o f he a r s a y i n t e r ms o f r e l a t i ng 12

wha t t he e xpe r i enc e o f ho r s e owne r s r e l a t ed t o h i m i s . 13

THE COURT : I wou l d sus t a i n t he ob j e c t i on . I wou l d 14

s a y t ha t i f i t ' s ba s ed on wha t e v e r t he ho r s e owne r s 15

ha v e t o l d h i m , my po i n t i s i f t he r e wa s some t h i ng o t he r 16

t han wha t t he y ' v e t o l d h i m , i f t he r e we r e o t he r i nd i c i a 17

o f t he i r p r e f e r enc e s I wou l d no t ha v e a p r ob l em w i t h 18

i t , bu t i f i t ' s ba s ed on wha t t he y t o l d h i m . . . So f o r 19

now I ' m go i ng t o sus t a i n ba s ed on t he , i t ' s no t 20

non r e spons i v e , bu t I w i l l t e l l you t ha t ' s k i nd o f whe r e 21

I ' m go i ng . 22

MR . ROLAND : I ' d l i k e t o t a k e De f endan t ' s Exh i b i t 23

No . 5 , i f I cou l d .24

THE COURT : Ce r t a i n l y . 25

443

( BY MR . ROLAND) Ok a y , I ' m p l a c i ng i n f r on t o f 1 Q .

you De f endan t ' s Exh i b i t , wha t ' s be en ma r k ed a s 2

De f endan t ' s Exh i b i t No . 5 . Do you r e cogn i z e t h i s? 3

Ye s . 4 A .

And ha v e you r e v i ewed t h i s? 5 Q .

Ye s . 6 A .

And i n you r op i n i on i s i t an a c cu r a t e p i e c e o f 7 Q .

r e s e a r ch? 8


Ok a y . Look i ng on Page 21 o f t h i s s t udy , cou l d 10 Q .

you s a y wha t you be l i e v e t he con t en t o f t ha t page i s? 11

Ye s , i t ' s a bou t , i t r e f e r s t o d e n t a l c a r e . I t 12 A .

s a y s t h a t , t h a t a s o f 1997 o v e r h a l f o f , o f t h e e qu i n e 13

op e r a t i on s o r ho r s e r a n c h , ho r s e p l a c e s d i d no t p r o v i d e 14

d e n t a l c a r e t o ho r s e s . And t h e n i t t a l k s a bou t wh e t h e r 15

t h e y h a d v e t e r i n a r i a n s o r non - v e t e r i n a r i a n s do i ng t h e 16

wo r k . Sa i d a s t h e s i z e o f t h e op e r a t i on i n c r e a s e d , t h e 17

mo r e l i k e l y i t wa s t h a t t h e y wou l d h a v e 18

non - v e t e r i n a r i a n s do i ng t h e wo r k . 19

I n you r e xpe r i enc e i n t he S t a t e o f M i s sou r i , i s 20 Q .

t he r e s e a r ch r e f l e c t ed i n t h i s documen t , i s i t 21

equ i v a l en t t o wha t you r e xpe r i enc e i s i n t he S t a t e o f 22

M i s sou r i r ega r d i ng t he us e o f non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r s 23

v e r sus v e t e r i na r i ans? 24

Ye s . 25 A .

444

Ok a y . So you t h i nk ba s ed on you r e xpe r i enc e i n 1 Q .

t h i s s t a t e t ha t t he numbe r s f r om a na t i onw i de a v e r age 2

a r e f a i r l y r e l a t ab l e t o t he S t a t e o f M i s sou r i ? 3

Ye s , I do . 4 A .

Now t u r n i ng t o Page 22 o f t h i s s t udy , and I ' d 5 Q .

l i k e f o r you t o l ook pa r t i cu l a r l y a t t he t ab l e 6

i nc l uded . Wha t doe s t ha t t ab l e appe a r t o be t o you? 7

I t r e f e r s t o t h e t a b l e a bou t t h e p e r c e n t a g e , 8 A .

t h e p e r c e n t op e r a t i on s b y how t h e ho r s e s a r e u s e d , b y 9

t h e p r i ma r y u s e o f e qu i d s . And t h e n i t t a l k s a bou t 10

wh e t h e r t h e y u s e t h e v e t e r i n a r y p r o v i d e r o r 11

non - v e t e r i n a r y e qu i n e d e n t a l p r a c t i t i on e r s .12

Ok a y . I f you wou l d l ook unde r t he Ra c i ng 13 Q .

co l umn i n t ha t t ab l e , wha t doe s t ha t t e l l you abou t t he 14

pe r c en t age o f ope r a t i ons us i ng v e t e r i na r i ans v e r sus t he 15

pe r c en t age us i ng non - v e t e r i na r i ans? 16

I n r a c i ng , a c c o r d i ng t o t h i s a nd p r e t t y we l l 17 A .

c ommon k now l e dg e among s t e qu i n e d e n t a l p r a c t i t i on e r s , 18

on t h e r a c e t r a c k i t i s b y f a r mo r e c ommon t o h a v e a 19

non - v e t e r i n a r i a n do i ng t h e d e n t a l wo r k , t h e d e n t a l 20

f l o a t i ng , b e c a u s e y ou c a n s e e t h a t t h e r e s u l t s d i r e c t l y 21

b y w i nn i ng s o r l a c k t h e r e o f i n t h e r a c e ho r s e s . 22

Ok a y . So j us t t o c l a r i f y , why wou l d you s a y 23 Q .

t ha t r a c i ng ho r s e s i n pa r t i cu l a r m i gh t be us e f u l 24

i n f o r ma t i on i f l ook i ng a t p r e f e r enc e s? 25

445

Be c a u s e i f t h e c om f o r t a nd t h e r e f o r e 1 A .

p e r f o r ma n c e o f t h e ho r s e s c a n b e r e f l e c t e d d i r e c t l y on 2

how we l l t h e y p e r f o r m i n r a c e s , a nd t h a t c on v e r t s i n t o 3

do l l a r s . And s o i t ' s a l o t e a s i e r t o t r a c k t h e 4

p e r f o r ma n c e o f wh a t wa s don e , wh i c h i s wh y t h e y u s e t h e 5

non - v e t e r i n a r i a n s t o do i t . 6

And j us t t o be c l e a r , wha t i s you r op i n i on 7 Q .

abou t t he , t he p r e f e r enc e s o f r a c i ng e s t ab l i shmen t s? 8

Th a t i t ' s i n f a v o r o f t h e non - v e t e r i n a r i a n 9 A .

e qu i n e d e n t a l p r a c t i t i on e r s . 10

I ' d l i k e t o c l a r i f y a l i t t l e b i t . I s t he r e a 11 Q .

de f i n i t i on t ha t we cou l d r e f e r t o when we ' r e t a l k i ng 12

abou t t he p r a c t i c e o f s i mp l y f l oa t i ng t e e t h? 13

Ye s . Th e r e a r e , I t h i n k p r ob a b l y t h e mo s t 14 A .

b a s i c on e i t r e f e r s t o , c e r t a i n l y t h e r emo v a l o f s h a r p 15

e n ame l po i n t s , e s p e c i a l l y on e s t h a t c ou l d b e i n j u r i ng 16

o r a r e un c om f o r t a b l e t o t h e ho r s e . And a l s o , t h e y c a l l 17

i t , s ome t i me s t h e y c a l l i t t h e l e v e l i ng o f t h e a r c a d e s , 18

a nd wh a t t h a t me a n s i s r e du c i ng a n y o v e r g r ow t h s t h a t 19

a r e c a u s i ng t h e ho r s e t o b e d y s f un c t i on a l i n s e v e r a l 20

d i f f e r e n t wa y s a nd s ho r t e n i ng t h e ho r s e ' s l i f e . 21

So t he r e a r e de f i n i t i ons o f f l oa t i ng t ha t cou l d 22 Q .

be mo r e e xpans i v e t han t ha t ? I s t ha t . . . 23

Ye s . I f y ou i n c l ud e d e v e r y t h i ng f r om do i ng 24 A .

i n c i s o r s , t h e f r on t t e e t h , t h r ough c a n i n e s . Some t i me s 25

446

y ou m i gh t n e e d t o s ho r t e n t h e i n c i s o r s , t h a t ' s no t 1

b a s i c f l o a t i ng . Th e r e ' s s e v e r a l - - s ome o f t h em a r e 2

mo r e - - s ome o f t h e d e f i n i t i on s o f f l o a t i ng m i gh t b e 3

mo r e i n d e p t h o r mo r e i n v o l v e d , mo r e t e c hn i c a l 4

a pp l i c a t i on s t h a n s ome o t h e r s . 5

Bu t t he p r o f e s s i ona l de f i n i t i on wou l d be t he 6 Q .

mo r e r e s t r i c t i v e de f i n i t i on ; co r r e c t ? 7

R i gh t , y e s . 8 A .

Ok a y . Abou t how much t i me wou l d you s a y i t 9 Q .

t a k e s f o r - - o r r a t he r , l e t me r eph r a s e . 10

How much e xpe r i enc e wou l d you be l i e v e t ha t 11

someone wou l d ne ed be f o r e you wou l d cons i de r t hem 12

compe t en t t o f l oa t a ho r s e ' s t e e t h? 13

I wou l d - - i f I we r e go i ng t o l e t t h em wo r k on 14 A .

my ho r s e , I wou l d wa n t t h em t o h a v e ob s e r v e d a nd / o r 15

p a r t i c i p a t e d i n a f l o a t i ng o f a t l e a s t 40 o r 50 ho r s e s . 16

O f c ou r s e a nd s ome p e op l e wou l d n e v e r b e c omp e t e n t . I 17

me a n , i t d e p e nd s on how b r i gh t t h e l i gh t bu l b i s . I 18

me a n , bu t a no r ma l p e r s on , i f t h e y ' v e s e e n 40 o r 50 19

ho r s e s b e i ng don e b y s ome on e who d i d a good t ho r ough 20

j ob a nd wa s hon e s t , i n t e g r i t y p l a y s a b i g p a r t o f i t , 21

b e c a u s e how mu c h t h e y ' r e w i l l i ng t o s how t h e own e r 22

wh a t ' s i t t h e r e , wh a t t h e y ' r e p a y i ng f o r , wh a t t h e y ' r e 23

no t g e t t i ng , wh a t t h e y ' r e g e t t i ng , s o 40 o r 50 ho r s e s 24

a r e go i ng t o g e t t h e j ob don e mo s t o f t h e t i me . 25

447

Do you ha v e an i de a o f abou t how many ho r s e s a 1 Q .

s t uden t a t one o f t he equ i ne den t a l a c adem i e s wou l d 2

f l oa t wh i l e t he y we r e t he r e a t t he s choo l ? 3

I t ' s my und e r s t a nd i ng t h a t t h e y do , d e p e nd i ng 4 A .

on how ma n y s e s s i on s t h e y a t t e nd , a nd t h e y ' r e u s u a l l y a 5

we e k o r t wo i n l e ng t h , t h e y ma y g e t t o s e e , I ' m 6

gu e s s i ng , 40 o r 50 ho r s e s a t e a c h s e s s i on , bu t I am 7

gu e s s i ng a t t h a t , I don ' t h a v e t ho s e numb e r s down p a t . 8

And when , when a s t uden t i s p r a c t i c i ng a t one 9 Q .

o f t he s e a c adem i e s , a r e t he y unde r supe r v i s i on? 10


Ok a y . Wha t k i nd o f e v a l ua t i on doe s t he 12 Q .

supe r v i so r ma k e? 13

Th e s up e r v i s o r wou l d wa t c h e v e r y mo v e t h e y ma k e 14 A .

s o t h a t t h e ho r s e i s no t hu r t . Be c a u s e mo s t o f t h e 15

p e op l e t h a t a r e i n t h i s l i k e ho r s e s a l o t a nd t h e y ' r e 16

no t go i ng t o l e t t h a t ho r s e b e a bu s e d , b e hu r t . So 17

t h e y ' r e c h e c k i ng v e r y f r e qu e n t l y on how mu c h t oo t h i s 18

b e i ng t a k e n , wh e t h e r o r no t a n y non - t oo t h t i s s u e i s 19

b e i ng d ama g e d , b e i ng i n j u r e d , i f t h e y ' r e c a u s i ng a n y 20

h emo r r h a g e o r t h a t k i nd o f t h i ng . 21

A r e you awa r e i f t he pe r f o r manc e o f t he 22 Q .

s t uden t s i s g r aded i n any wa y? 23

I s g r a d e d i n a n y wa y ? 24 A .

I s i t ? 25 Q .

448

I b e l i e v e i t i s . 1 A .

Ok a y . 2 Q .

I ' m s u r e t h e y c ou l d b e boo t e d ou t i f t h e y we r e 3 A .

no t s e r v i ng ho r s e s we l l . 4

Ok a y . Do you ha v e a s ens e o f how f r equen t l y 5 Q .

s t uden t s a t t he s e s choo l s go on t o e v en f u r t he r 6

t r a i n i ng? 7

I t h i n k a f a i r l y h i gh p e r c e n t a g e o f t h em do 8 A .

c ome b a c k f o r o t h e r s e s s i on s , a s t h e y c on t i nu e t o k e e p 9

l e a r n i ng . P l u s , t h e y l e a r n f r om e v e r y ho r s e t h e y wo r k 10

on . Bu t I t h i n k a l o t o f t h em do go b a c k f o r mo r e 11

t r a i n i ng a t e i t h e r t h a t s ame i n s t i t u t i on o r o t h e r 12

i n s t i t u t i on s t e a c h i ng d e n t i s t r y i n t h e Un i t e d S t a t e s . 13

Ha v e you pe r sona l l y had an oppo r t un i t y t o 14 Q .

r e v i ew t he wo r k done by g r adua t e s o f t he s e a c adem i e s? 15

Ye s , I h a v e . 16 A .

And wha t i s you r op i n i on o f t he wo r k t ha t ' s 17 Q .

done by g r adua t e s o f t he s e a c adem i e s? 18

I t h i n k i t ' s v e r y good . I t ' s e a s y t o t e l l f r om 19 A .

mo s t o f my v e t e r i n a r i a n c o l l e a gu e wo r k b e c a u s e i t ' s 20

t ho r ough . And t h e y a c t u a l l y r e c ogn i z e ho r s e ' s t e e t h go 21

b a c k p a s t t h e f i r s t t h r e e . 22

So , ok a y , you men t i oned you r v e t e r i na r i an 23 Q .

co l l e ague s , so cou l d you e xpand on t ha t a l i t t l e b i t ? 24

Wha t i s you r e xpe r i enc e w i t h v e t e r i na r i ans who a t t emp t 25

449

t e e t h f l oa t i ng? 1

Th e v a s t ma j o r i t y o f t h em a r e no t r e c omme nd i ng 2 A .

r ou t i n e e qu i n e f l o a t i ng , e qu i n e d e n t a l t e e t h f l o a t i ng 3

b e c a u s e t h e y h a v e no t b e e n i n t r odu c e d t o t h e f e a t u r e s 4

a nd b e n e f i t . I t ' s s t a r t i ng t o c h a ng e , bu t s t i l l , e v e r y 5

ho r s e I wo r k on i s own e d b y a n own e r who wou l d g l a d l y 6

p a y f o r e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y , a nd b y f a r , t h e v a s t ma j o r i t y 7

h a v e n e v e r h a d i t r e c omme nd e d b y t h e i r v e t e r i n a r i a n . 8

And s o I c a n t e l l v e r y e a s i l y wh e n I s e e a 9

ho r s e t h a t h a s b e e n don e b y a non - v e t e r i n a r i a n , b e c a u s e 10

h e h a s b i t s e a t s , t h e s h a r p po i n t s a r e r emo v e d , o t h e r 11

t h a n j u s t t h e f r on t h a l f o f t h e f i r s t - - t h e f r on t 12

t h r e e , t h e on e s t h a t a r e e a s y t o g e t t o , bu t a l s o t h e 13

on e s a l l t h e wa y i n t h e b a c k , wh e r e t h e y ' r e b a c k h e r e 14

und e r t h i s l a r g e ma s s e t e r o r ma s s e t e r mu s c l e pu s h i ng i n 15

t h e r e , we r e a c t u a l l y h a r d t o r e a c h . Th e y ' r e s t i l l 16

r e a c h e d . Wh e r e a s a l o t o f u s v e t e r i n a r i a n s don ' t 17

bo t h e r t o go b a c k t h a t f a r b e c a u s e wh a t t h e h e c k , 18

wh a t ' s b a c k t h e r e a n ywa y ? Wh a t ma y b e b a c k t h e r e i s a 19

po i n t 2 i n c h e s l ong , i t ' s c a r v i ng a ho l e - - I ' m s o r r y , 20

I ' m go i ng t oo f a r . 21

You men t i oned r ou t i ne f l oa t i ng . When you us e 22 Q .

t he wo r d r ou t i ne , wha t s ens e a r e you us i ng i t ? 23

I me a n , p r o v i d i ng c a r e f o r ho r s e s ' t e e t h t h a t 24 A .

c a n b e don e s i mp l y b y r emo v i ng s h a r p po i n t s a nd / o r 25

450

s h a r p e dg e s on t h e f r on t o f t h e t e e t h , l i k e pu t t i ng i n 1

b i t s e a t s , o r o v e r l y l ong t e e t h , a s oppo s e d t o i n d e p t h 2

e x t r a c t i on s o f a b i g t oo t h f r om a y oung ho r s e wh e r e y ou 3

go t a t oo t h t h a t l ong t h a t ' s go i ng t o h a v e t o b e dug 4

ou t o r t h a t k i nd o f t h i ng c e r t a i n l y wou l d b e . 5

Th e t h i ng i s , wh a t ' s good a bou t i t , wh a t ' s n i c e 6

a bou t i t i s t h a t s ome on e who ' s l oo k e d i n a l o t o f 7

ho r s e s ' mou t h s i s mo r e l i k e l y t o b e a b l e t o r e c ogn i z e 8

t h a t k i nd o f t h i ng t h a t ma y n e e d t o b e r e f e r r e d t o a 9

s u r g i c a l f a c i l i t y . 10

So j us t t o c l a r i f y , when you ' r e us i ng t he wo r d 11 Q .

r ou t i ne , i t doe sn ' t sound l i k e you ' r e us i ng i t i n t he 12

s ens e o f , l e t ' s j us t pu t t h i s on t he c a l enda r and do 13

i t , you know , a t s e t i n t e r v a l s . I t sounds mo r e l i k e 14

you ' r e t a l k i ng abou t t he s i gn i f i c anc e o f t he p r oc edu r e . 15

Am I unde r s t and i ng you co r r e c t l y on t ha t ? 16

I ' m no t s u r e . 17 A .

Ok a y . 18 Q .

I me a n , we e x am i n e e v e r y ho r s e , y ou l e a r n f r om 19 A .

e v e r y ho r s e , b e c a u s e i t ' s l i k e Pa ndo r a ' s bo x , y ou 20

r e a l l y don ' t k now wh a t ' s i n t h e r e , e s p e c i a l l y i f i t ' s 21

t h e f i r s t ho r s e y ou h a v e n ' t s e e n b e f o r e un t i l y ou l oo k 22

i n t h e r e . And t h e n y ou s e e , oh , we l l t h i s i s r ou t i n e , 23

I ' v e don e t h i s ho r s e , I d i d i t l a s t y e a r , s ame t h i ng , 24

y ou j u s t go t s ome po i n t s c om i ng b a c k a nd t h e y c on t i nu e 25

451

t o g r ow f o r 20 y e a r s a nd c on t i nu e t o e r up t f o r a l ong 1

t i me . 2

So ma y b e j u s t t h e s h a r p po i n t s a r e b a c k a nd 3

t ho s e s ame o v e r g r ow t h s a r e c om i ng b a c k . O r y ou ma y 4

r e a c h i n t h e r e a nd f i nd , oh , now t h i s 22 - y e a r - o l d h a s a 5

l oo s e t oo t h t h a t , t h e ho r s e wa s a s a i n t , d i dn ' t s how 6

a n y s i gn s o f i t wh a t s o e v e r bu t h e r e i t i s , a nd t h e r e ' s 7

pu s a r ound i t a nd y ou c a n sme l l i t wh e n y ou pu l l y ou r 8

h a nd b a c k ou t , s o t h a t ma y pop r i gh t ou t , i f s o , a nd 9

do e s n ' t r e qu i r e a n y , e v e n a n y s e d a t i on t o pop i t ou t . 10

Th a t ' s r ou t i n e ? I f i t ' s s ome t h i ng t h a t ' s go i ng t o t a k e 11

mo r e i n d e p t h k i nd o f wo r k , t h e n i t wou l d b e r e f e r r e d 12

t o a v e t e r i n a r i a n i f n e e d b e . 13

Ok a y . So , so , aga i n , j us t t o ma k e su r e t ha t 14 Q .

I ' m unde r s t and i ng co r r e c t l y , some t h i ng t ha t wou l d no t 15

be r ou t i ne wou l d be some t h i ng t ha t r equ i r e s t he , t he 16

a s s i s t anc e o f a - - o r r a t he r r e f e r r a l t o a 17

v e t e r i na r i an ; whe r e a s some t h i ng t ha t wou l d be r ou t i ne 18

i s some t h i ng t ha t cou l d be managed by a l a y f l oa t e r ; i s 19

t ha t - - am I s t i l l no t unde r s t and i ng? 20

We l l , r i gh t , bu t t h e n , e v e n i f y ou ' r e - - j u s t 21 A .

b e c a u s e on e wou l d r e f e r i t t o a v e t e r i n a r i a n do e s n ' t 22

me a n i t ' s go i ng t o g e t a b e t t e r j ob don e . Th e y m i gh t 23

n e e d t o r e f e r i t t o a s u r g i c a l f a c i l i t y wh e r e t h e y h a v e 24

mo r e e x p e r i e n c e i n d e a l i ng w i t h t h i ng s t h a t a r e b e y ond 25

452

r ou t i n e . Be c a u s e a who l e l o t o f u s v e t e r i n a r i a n s 1

h a v e n ' t l oo k e d i n e nough ho r s e s ' mou t h s t o k now t h e 2

s i gn i f i c a n c e o f s ome t h i ng t h a t a f l o a t e r , a 3

non - v e t e r i n a r y f l o a t e r wou l d s e e , a nd a l o t o f 4

v e t e r i n a r i a n s ma y no t r e a l i z e wh y t h a t ' s s i gn i f i c a n t . 5

Th e y h a v e n ' t l oo k e d i n e nough mou t h s t o s e e . Ma y b e I ' m 6

no t und e r s t a nd i ng . 7

Ok a y . I n you r e xpe r i enc e , i f a l a y f l oa t e r 8 Q .

encoun t e r s a cond i t i on , do t he y ha v e any he s i t a t i on 9

abou t r e f e r r i ng i t t o a v e t e r i na r i an? 10

Th e y c e r t a i n l y h a v e no h e s i t a t i on wh a t s o e v e r 11 A .

b e c a u s e t h e y a r e i n t e r e s t e d i n t h e we l l b e i ng o f t h e 12

ho r s e , f r om wh a t I ' v e s e e n . Re f e r r i ng i t t o a 13

qu a l i f i e d v e t e r i n a r i a n , no t j u s t a n y bod y h a ng i ng a DVM 14

o r a VMD on t h e i r wa l l , a nd t h e y wou l d k now f r om t h e i r 15

p a s t e x p e r i e n c e who ' s qu a l i f i e d t o h a nd l e t h i s k i nd o f 16

c a s e , o r who ' s no t . 17

A r e you a l so awa r e o f any v e t e r i na r i ans who 18 Q .

wou l d a c t ua l l y ma k e r e f e r r a l s t o non - v e t e r i na r i an 19

f l oa t e r s? 20

Ma n y , v e r y ma n y , y e s . 21 A .

Ha v e you r e v i ewed t he cu r r i cu l um a t , a t any 22 Q .

numbe r o f v e t e r i na r y s choo l s? 23

Ye s . 24 A .

Do you ha v e a s ens e o f how many s choo l ' s 25 Q .

453

cu r r i cu l ums you ' v e r e v i ewed? 1

Ye a h . I t ' s i n t h e upp e r 20 s . 2 A .

Ok a y . Do you know how many s choo l s t he r e a r e 3 Q .

i n t he coun t r y? 4

27 o r 8 . I ' m no t s u r e , t h e y ' r e k i nd o f c om i ng 5 A .

a nd go i ng , l i k e a c r ew o f S t . Ge o r g e o r t h e on e a t 6

S t . K i t z e r . I ' m no t s u r e i f t h a t ' s i n c l ud e d o r no t , 7

bu t I r e v i ewe d a l l t h e Un i t e d S t a t e s v e t e r i n a r y 8

c u r r i c u l ums a c oup l e y e a r s a go . 9

Ok a y . Wha t we r e you l ook i ng f o r when you we r e 10 Q .

r e v i ew i ng t hos e cu r r i cu l um?11

I wa s l oo k i ng f o r i n f o r ma t i on on how ma n y o f 12 A .

t h em i n c l ud e d e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y a s e i t h e r r e qu i r e d 13

c ou r s e s o r op t i on a l c ou r s e s f o r v e t e r i n a r y s t ud e n t s . 14

Ok a y , and wha t we r e t he r e su l t s o f you r r e v i ew? 15 Q .

Th e r e s u l t s we r e t h a t on l y t h r e e o r f ou r 16 A .

a c t u a l l y r e qu i r e d a n y e x po s u r e . Mo s t o f t h em wou l d 17

o f f e r s ome op t i on a l c ou r s e s i n l e a r n i ng mo r e a bou t 18

e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y , bu t v e r y l i t t l e e x po s u r e , r e a l l y , i n 19

g e n e r a l . 20

So i n you r op i n i on do you ha v e any wa y t o gauge 21 Q .

t he app r ox i ma t e pe r c en t age o f s t uden t s who m i gh t t a k e 22

one o f t he s e cou r s e s , t he s e e l e c t i v e cou r s e s? 23

I k now i t ' s l ow bu t I c a n ' t pu t a numb e r on i t . 24 A .

Be c a u s e a numb e r o f v e t e r i n a r i a n s i n g e n e r a l go i ng i n t o 25

454

l a r g e a n i ma l a t a l l a s oppo s e d t o sma l l a n i ma l , dog s 1

a nd c a t s , i s o v e r wh e l m i ng l y i n f a v o r o f t h e sma l l 2

a n i ma l s . I wou l d s a y l e s s t h a n 10 p e r c e n t , bu t I ' m 3

gu e s s i ng a t t h a t , I r e a l l y don ' t k now . 4

One o f t he ma t t e r s t ha t ha s be en d i s cus s ed - - 5 Q .

MR . ROLAND : I ' m l ook i ng f o r , I c an ' t r emembe r t he 6

numbe r o f t he e xh i b i t . The he a t s t ud i e s t ha t we 7

d i s cus s ed y e s t e r da y . Ac t ua l l y I t h i nk I ' m go i ng t o t r y 8

and add r e s s t ha t en t i r e su i t e o f s t ud i e s . 9

THE COURT : R i gh t t he r e . 10

MR . ROLAND : Thank you . 11

THE COURT : Su r e .12

( BY MR . ROLAND) We ' v e d i s cus s ed some o f t he 13 Q .

s t ud i e s t ha t ha v e be en com i ng ou t r ega r d i ng t e e t h 14

f l oa t i ng . Among t hem - - l e t ' s s e e . I ' m pu t t i ng i n 15

f r on t o f you wha t ' s be en ma r k ed a s P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 16

No . 13 en t i t l ed " How t o Re cogn i z e and C l i n i c a l l y Manage 17

C l a s s 1 Ma l oc c l us i ons i n t he Ho r s e " by , I be l i e v e i t ' s 18

Robe r t Ba r a t t . Ha v e you r e ad t h i s s t udy p r e v i ous l y? 19

Ye s , I h a v e . 20 A .

Ok a y . And i n you r op i n i on doe s i t c a l l i n t o 21 Q .

que s t i on t he ab i l i t y o f non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r s t o 22

f l oa t ho r s e ' s t e e t h? 23

Ac t u a l l y , i n my m i nd i t d i r e c t l y po i n t s ou t wh y 24 A .

non - v e t e r i n a r i a n s a r e s o mu c h mo r e b e t t e r a t i t b e c a u s e 25

455

t h e y c a n a c t u a l l y i d e n t i f y t h e t h i ng s t h a t h e ' s 1

po i n t i ng ou t a s b e i ng ma l o c c l u s i on s . Mo s t 2

v e t e r i n a r i a n s c a nno t . 3

Ok a y . 4 Q .

THE COURT : Wh i ch e xh i b i t a r e you l ook i ng a t t he r e? 5

MR . ROLAND : I t ' s Exh i b i t No . 13 . 6

THE COURT : Ok a y .7

( BY MR . ROLAND ) Jus t t o ma k e su r e I 8 Q .

unde r s t and , you ' r e s a y i ng t ha t t h i s s t udy a c t ua l l y 9

r e en f o r c e s you r op i n i on t ha t non - v e t e r i na r i ans a r e 10

qua l i f i ed t o pe r f o r m f l oa t i ng on ho r s e s? 11

Ye s . I ' m s u r e t h a t ' s no t wh a t h e ' s t y i ng t o 12 A .

s a y i n t h i s s t ud y , bu t t h a t ' s wh a t i t t e l l s me , f r om 13

wh a t I h a v e s e e n o f v e t e r i n a r y wo r k v e r s u s 14

non - v e t e r i n a r y wo r k o v e r t h e l a s t 15 y e a r s . 15

I ' m p l a c i ng i n f r on t o f you wha t ' s be en ma r k ed 16 Q .

a s P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 12 en t i t l ed , " How To As s e s s 17

Equ i ne O r a l He a l t h " by Jon G i e che , i t l ook s l i k e , o r 18

G i e che . Ha v e you l ook ed a t t h i s s t udy be f o r e? 19

Ye s , I h a v e . 20 A .

A r e you awa r e o f any t h i ng i n t h i s s t udy t ha t 21 Q .

c a l l s i n t o que s t i on you r op i n i on t ha t non - v e t e r i na r i ans 22

c an be qua l i f i ed t o f l oa t ho r s e s ' t e e t h? 23

My und e r s t a nd i ng o f t h i s s t ud y s a y s t h a t un l e s s 24 A .

y ou do a c omp l e t e , f a i r l y c omp l e t e ph y s i c a l e x am b e f o r e 25

456

y ou l oo k i n t h e ho r s e ' s mou t h , t h a t y ou ' r e no t 1

qu a l i f i e d t o do t h a t , wh i c h do e s n ' t ma k e s e n s e t o me a s 2

c omp a r e d t o wh a t ' s r e a l l y i mpo r t a n t i s b e i ng a b l e t o 3

l oo k i n s i d e a ho r s e ' s mou t h a nd s e e , I me a n , a r e t h e r e 4

p r ob l ems i n t h e r e t h a t a r e go i ng t o b e hu r t i ng t h e 5

ho r s e ? 6

As f a r a s d e l e g a t i ng how i mpo r t a n t i t i s , t h e 7

s t a g e o f how i mpo r t a n t i t i s c omp a r e d t o wh e t h e r o r no t 8

h e h a s a h e a r t mu r mu r o r on e o f t ho s e k i nd o f t h i ng s , 9

t ho s e t h i ng s c a n b e i mpo r t a n t , bu t b y f a r t h e mo s t 10

i mpo r t a n t t h i ng i s b e i ng a b l e t o r e c ogn i z e t h e 11

qu a l i t i e s i n a ho r s e ' s - - i n s i d e a ho r s e ' s mou t h . And 12

y ou ' r e go i ng t o g e t a p r e t t y good i d e a wh a t k i nd o f 13

h e a l t h t h e ho r s e i s i n wh e n y ou g e t w i t h i n 10 f e e t o f 14

h i m , y ou k now , do y ou s e e h i s r i b s s t i c k i ng ou t o r i s 15

h e r e a l l y hu r t i ng t h a t wa y o r , y ou k now . 16

Ok a y . Bu t i t ' s you r op i n i on t ha t a 17 Q .

non - v e t e r i na r i an c an be qua l i f i ed t o pe r f o r m t he e x am 18

ne c e s s a r y t o f l oa t a ho r s e ' s t e e t h? 19

Ye s . 20 A .

Ok a y . Now , t he r e ' s be en some t e s t i mony abou t 21 Q .

t he cu r r en t v e t e r i na r y s t anda r d o f c a r e r ega r d i ng 22

e x am i n a t i ons . Cou l d you p l e a s e , f i r s t , I gue s s , 23

e xp l a i n you r unde r s t and i ng o f t he cu r r en t v e t e r i na r y 24

p r e s c r i bed s t anda r d o f c a r e . 25

457

Ye s . And I c a n do t h a t v e r y we l l b e c a u s e l a s t 1 A .

we e k e nd I wa s a t a s o - c a l l e d a d v a n c e d e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y 2

f o c u s me e t i ng w i t h t h e Ame r i c a n As s o c i a t i on o f Equ i n e 3

P r a c t i t i on e r s . I t ' s a b i g U . S . b a s e d e qu i n e v e t e r i n a r y 4

p r a c t i t i on e r g r oup . 5

And wh a t I l e a r n e d f r om t h a t , wh i c h h a s b e e n 6

ob v i ou s o v e r t h e l a s t 10 o r 15 y e a r s , i s t h a t t h e k i nd s 7

o f t h i ng s t h a t a r e b e i ng r e c omme nd e d b y t h e s o - c a l l e d 8

a d v a n c e d e qu i n e v e t e r i n a r y d e n t a l p r a c t i t i on e r s a r e 9

t h i ng s t h a t a r e i n my op i n i on unn e c e s s a r y i n t h e v a s t 10

ma j o r i t y o f c a s e s , a nd t h a t a r e r a i s i ng t h e b a r 11

e x p e n s e - w i s e b e y ond t h e r e a c h o f t h e v a s t ma j o r i t y o f 12

ho r s e own e r s , a nd t h e r e f o r e d e c r e a s i ng t h e we l l - b e i ng 13

o f t h e ho r s e . 14

Th e y ' r e do i ng s ome t h i ng s t h a t a r e , y ou k now , 15

ma k e g r e a t s c i e n t i f i c s t ud i e s a bou t do i ng , y ou k now 16

pu l p e x po s u r e , r e p a i r s i n p e r i don t a l f i l l i ng s a nd 17

c r own r e p l a c eme n t s a nd t h e s e k i nd s o f t h i ng s , bu t wh a t 18

t h e y ' r e o v e r l oo k i ng i n a l l o f t h e i r a d v a n c e d , s o - c a l l e d 19

a d v a n c e d t h i ng s i s t h a t b a s i c d e n t a l f l o a t i ng w i l l 20

p r e v e n t t h e n e e d f o r 99 . 9 p e r c e n t o f t ho s e t h i ng s , w i t h 21

j u s t b a s i c d e n t a l f l o a t i ng . 22

I s e e . So wha t I he a r you s a y i ng i s t ha t 23 Q .

wha t ' s good f o r s c i enc e doe s no t ne c e s s a r i l y t r ans l a t e 24

i n t o p r a c t i c a l app l i c a t i on? I s t ha t . . . 25

458

Th a t ' s v e r y t r u e . I ' m a f r a i d i t ' s f unn y , bu t I 1 A .

t h i n k s c i e n c e h a s no t y e t c a ugh t up w i t h e qu i n e 2

d e n t i s t r y . Th e y don ' t k now t h e k i nd s o f s t ud i e s t o 3

c ondu c t t o s how wh e t h e r o r no t e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y i s 4

h e l p i ng ho r s e s . Th e y do s t ud i e s on d i g e s t i b i l i t y , a nd 5

s how t h a t d e n t a l f l o a t i ng d i dn ' t h e l p t h e s e ho r s e s 6

d i g e s t , t h e y don ' t h a v e sma l l e r p i e c e s o f f ood i n t h e i r 7

ho r s e poop ; we l l , s o wh a t ? Th a t ' s no t wh a t c oun t s . 8

Wh a t c oun t s i s how do e s t h i s ho r s e p e r f o r m , how 9

c om f o r t a b l e i s i t , how l ong i s i t go i ng t o l i v e , 10

b e c a u s e we t oo k s ome b i g s h a r p t h i ng s o f f o f t h e i r 11

t e e t h . 12

Ok a y . Le t ' s t a k e a l ook a t some o f t he s e 13 Q .

s t ud i e s t ha t you j us t k i nd o f a l l uded t o . 14

I pu t i n f r on t o f you P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t 15

No . 17 en t i t l ed " E f f e c t i v e den t a l f l oa t i ng on t he 16

r os t r oc auda l mob i l i t y o f t he mand i b l e o f ho r s e s . " Ha v e 17

you r e v i ewed t h i s s t udy? 18

Ye s , I h a v e . 19 A .

And wha t ' s you r op i n i on o f t h i s s t udy? 20 Q .

I t ' s , i t ' s r i d i c u l ou s . I me a n , t h e y a r e , t h e y 21 A .

a r e e x p r e s s i ng t h e op i n i on t h a t r o s t r o c a ud a l mo v eme n t , 22

a nd b y wh a t t h e y me a n b y t h a t i s , how - -23

Cou l d you show us w i t h t he s ku l l ? 24 Q .

Oh , y e a h , s u r e , we ' l l u s e K i r b y f o r t h i s . Wh a t 25 A .

459

t h e y ' r e t a l k i ng a bou t i s how - - r o s t r a l me a n s t owa r d s 1

t h e f r on t , t owa r d s t h e r o s t r a l , t h e f r on t o f t h e no s e ; 2

c a ud a l i s t owa r d s t h e r e a r e nd . So t h e y ' r e t a l k i ng 3

a bou t how f a r f o r wa r d a nd b a c kwa r d t h i s l owe r j aw 4

a c t u a l l y mo v e s i n r e l a t i on t o t h e upp e r j aw . Th e upp e r 5

j aw i s hoo k e d on t o t h e s p i n a l c o l umn , t h e v e r t e b r a e , 6

n e c k bon e s , wh e r e a s t h e l owe r on e ' s no t , i t ' s l oo s e 7

e x c e p t b e i ng a t t a c h e d h e r e a t t h e t empo r oma nd i bu l a r 8

j o i n t s o r TMJ .9

So wh a t t h e y ' r e - - t h e y ' r e a s s e s s i ng t h e 10

i mpo r t a n c e o f , t h e v a l u e o f , i s how f a r t h i s mo v e s 11

f o r wa r d a nd b a c k , e s p e c i a l l y wh e n y ou r a i s e a nd l owe r 12

t h e ho r s e ' s h e a d . Wh e n y ou r a i s e a nd l owe r t h e ho r s e ' s 13

h e a d , i t no r ma l l y i s f u r t h e r , t h e l owe r j aw i s f u r t h e r 14

f o r wa r d wh e n a ho r s e ' s h e a d i s down ; y ou p i c k i t up , 15

t h e l owe r j aw mo v e s b a c k . Same a s ou r s , r e a l l y , wh e n 16

y ou l oo k up , y ou r j aw t e nd s t o mo v e b a c k . I ' m no t 17

s u r e - - 18

So I wa s j us t a s k i ng , Wha t do you t h i nk t he 19 Q .

us e f u l ne s s o f t h i s s t udy i s a s f a r a s whe t he r 20

non - v e t e r i na r i ans m i gh t be qua l i f i ed t o f l oa t ho r s e s ' 21

t e e t h? 22

To me z e r o . Be c a u s e I don ' t - - f o r on e t h i ng I 23 A .

don ' t t h i n k t h e p e op l e who d i d t h i s s t ud y h a v e a n y i d e a 24

o f t h e p e r t i n e n c e o r l a c k t h e r e o f o f r o s t r o c a ud a l 25

460

mo v eme n t o f t h e ho r s e ' s j aw t o e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y .1

Ok a y . I ' m go i ng t o pu t i n f r on t o f you - - 2 Q .

THE COURT : Wh i ch s t udy wa s t ha t ? 3

MR . ROLAND : Tha t ' s Exh i b i t 17 . 4

THE COURT : Ok a y .5

( BY MR . ROLAND) I ' m go i ng t o pu t i n f r on t o f 6 Q .

you P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 18 , wh i ch i s en t i t l ed 7

" E f f e c t i v e d e n t a l f l o a t i ng on we i gh t g a i n , bod y 8

cond i t i on s co r e , f e ed d i ge s t i b i l i t y , and f e c a l pa r t i c l e 9

s i z e i n p r egnan t , ma r e s . " A r e you f am i l i a r w i t h t h i s 10

s t udy? 11

A l i t t l e b i t . 12 A .

And wha t i s you r op i n i on o f t h i s s t udy? 13 Q .

I t h i n k y ou ' r e l oo k i ng a t f e c a l p a r t i c l e s i z e 14 A .

i n a ho r s e . I me a n , t a l k a bou t n i t p i c k i ng . I t ' s 15

r e a l l y no t r e l e v a n t t o how c om f o r t a b l e t h a t ho r s e i s o r 16

i s no t b e c a u s e o f i t s t e e t h . Th a t ' s r e l e v a n t t o how 17

mu c h c h ew i ng t h e y do o r don ' t do a nd wh a t t h e y ' r e b e i ng 18

f e d . I t ' s r e a l l y no t - - d i g e s t i b i l i t y , on e wou l d n e v e r 19

t r y t o s e l l e qu i n e d e n t a l s e r v i c e s b a s e d on 20

d i g e s t i b i l i t y o f f ood p a r t i c l e s . I t ' s a bou t c om f o r t , 21

p e r f o r ma n c e l ong e v i t y . 22

Ok a y . So wha t you ' r e s a y i ng , i f I unde r s t and 23 Q .

you co r r e c t l y , i s t ha t t h i s s t udy i s mo r e f ocus ed on 24

we i gh t r e t en t i on o r , bu t i t ' s no t f ocus ed on wha t you 25

461

ha v e s a i d i s t he t r ue goa l o f f l oa t i ng?1

Co r r e c t . And I e v e n h a v e my doub t s a bou t t h e 2 A .

a b i l i t y o f t h e p e op l e who d i d t h i s s o - c a l l e d f l o a t i ng 3

t o k now wh a t r ou t i n e , d e c e n t r ou t i n e f l o a t i ng i s . 4

I s e e . Doe s t he s t udy g i v e any i nd i c a t i on o f 5 Q .

t he t r a i n i ng o f t he pe r sons who p r ov i ded t he f l oa t i ng 6

f o r t ha t s t udy? 7

I t h i n k t h e y we r e a l l p r e t t y we l l r e c ogn i z e d 8 A .

b i g n ame s i n t h e e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y f i e l d , bu t a s f a r a s 9

p r a c t i c a l e x p e r i e n c e I r e a l l y don ' t k now . 10

Ok a y . Jus t be c aus e I don ' t know i f you ' v e 11 Q .

s t a t ed i t a s such y e t , i n you r op i n i on wha t a r e t he 12

p r i ma r y goa l s o f f l oa t i ng ho r s e s ' t e e t h? 13

Th e p r i ma r y go a l s a r e t o r emo v e p a r t s o f t h e 14 A .

ho r s e ' s t oo t h t h a t a r e i n j u r i ou s t o t h e ho r s e a nd t h a t 15

wou l d t h e r e f o r e i n t e r f e r e w i t h t h e i r c om f o r t , 16

p e r f o r ma n c e a nd l ong e v i t y . 17

Ok a y . I ' m pu t t i ng i n f r on t o f you wha t ' s be en 18 Q .

ma r k ed a s P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 19 en t i t l ed " E f f e c t 19

o f p r emo l a r and mo l a r oc c l us a l ang l e on f e ed 20

d i ge s t i b i l i t y , wa t e r ba l anc e , and f e c a l pa r t i c l e s i z e 21

i n ho r s e s . " Ha v e you r e ad t ha t s t udy? 22

Ye s . 23 A .

And wha t i s you r op i n i on o f t ha t s t udy? 24 Q .

I t h i n k i t b e l ong s i n t h e s ame p a r t o f t h e 25 A .

462

b a l on e y d e p a r t me n t a s t h e o t h e r s , b y wh i c h I me a n i t ' s 1

no t r e a l l y p e r t i n e n t t o wh y we do e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y . 2

So i n you r op i n i on doe s t h i s s t udy ha v e 3 Q .

any t h i ng t o s a y abou t whe t he r non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r s 4

cou l d be qua l i f i ed t o p r ov i de f l oa t i ng s e r v i c e s? 5

No , non e .6 A .

THE COURT : Wh i ch one wa s t ha t ? I ' m so r r y .7

THE W I TNESS : 19 .8

MR . ROLAND : 19 . 9


( BY MR . ROLAND ) I ' m now p l a c i ng i n f r on t o f 11 Q .

you P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 20 en t i t l ed " The 12

r e l a t i onsh i p be t we en t he che e k t oo t h oc c l us a l 13

mo r pho l ogy , appa r en t d i ge s t i b i l i t y , and i nge s t a 14

pa r t i c l e s i z e r educ t i on i n ho r s e s . Ha v e you r e ad t h i s 15

s t udy? 16

Ye s . 17 A .

And wha t i s you r op i n i on o f t h i s s t udy? 18 Q .

I t h i n k i t go e s i n t h e s ame b i n a s t h e o t h e r s . 19 A .

I don ' t r e a l l y c a r e a bou t t h e s i z e o f t h e i ng e s t e d 20

p a r t i c l e s i z e i n ho r s e poop , a s c omp a r e d t o wh e t h e r o r 21

no t t h e s h a r p po i n t s a r e c u t t i ng ho l e s i n h i s c h e e k s 22

a nd / o r o v e r g r ow t h s a r e w i p i ng ou t , k i l l i ng a n oppo s i ng 23

t oo t h , o r goug i ng i n t o t h e gum t i s s u e on a b i g l owe r 24

r amp s t i c k i ng up h e r e , r emod e l i ng t h e bon e . 25

463

Th e ho r s e i s s t i l l go i ng t o f i nd a wa y t o c h ew , 1

b e c a u s e t h a t ' s how t h e y h a v e t o l i v e ; s o t h e y ' r e go i ng 2

t o c h ew a n ywa y . And t h e y ma y no t s how a n y e x t e r n a l 3

s i gn s . Th e y ma y no t s how a n y we i gh t l o s s , e v e n wh e n 4

t h e s e t h i ng s a r e go i ng on . So on l y b y t ho r ough l y 5

e x am i n i ng t h e ho r s e , a nd I don ' t t h i n k i ng e s t a 6

p a r t i c l e s i z e h a s mu c h t o do w i t h t h e r e a l f un c t i on o f 7

e qu i n e f l o a t i ng , I don ' t . 8

So i n you r op i n i on doe s t h i s a r t i c l e ha v e 9 Q .

any t h i ng t o s a y abou t whe t he r non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r s 10

c an be qua l i f i ed t o f l oa t ho r s e s ' t e e t h? 11

I n my op i n i on , no . 12 A .

Ha v e you r e v i ewed any s t ud i e s add r e s s i ng 13 Q .

conc e r ns abou t t empe r a t u r e r i s e i n t e e t h ba s ed on t he 14

app l i c a t i on o f f l oa t i ng t oo l s? 15

Ye s . 16 A .

Ok a y . 17 Q .

Se v e r a l o f t h em . 18 A .

I ' m go i ng t o hand t o you wha t ' s be en ma r k ed a s 19 Q .

P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t No . 15 . I t ' s en t i t l ed , 20

" Tempe r a t u r e change s i n den t a l pu l p a s soc i a t ed w i t h us e 21

o f powe r g r i nd i ng equ i pmen t on equ i ne t e e t h . " Ha v e you 22

r e ad t ha t s t udy? 23

Ye s , I h a v e . 24 A .


464

I t h i n k i t wa s - - a l t hough i t wa s a n hono r a b l e 1 A .

a t t emp t t o t r y t o d e t e r m i n e s ome t h i ng , t h e me t hod s t h a t 2

t h e y u s e c a u s e d t h em t o g e t v e r y e r r on e ou s r e s u l t s . 3

And a s we a l l k now , we t e nd t o g e t t h e r e s u l t s we ' r e 4

l oo k i ng f o r . 5

Bu t t h e p r ob l em w i t h i t wa s , i s t h a t t h e y t oo k 6

t e e t h i s o l a t e d ou t o f a ho r s e ' s mou t h s o t h a t t h e n 7

t h e r e wa s no i n s u l a t i ng t e e t h n e x t t o i t , a bo v e i t , a nd 8

t h e n t h e y bu r i e d s ome t h e r ma l c oup l e r s , s ome 9

t emp e r a t u r e me a s u r i ng d e v i c e s a t v a r i ou s l e v e l s i n t h e 10

ho r s e ' s t e e t h . 11

Th e n t h e y a pp l i e d powe r e qu i pme n t , g r i nd i ng 12

t h e s e t e e t h , a nd t o s u c h d e g r e e t h a t t h e y go t wh a t a r e 13

t hough t t o b e d ama g i ng t emp e r a t u r e i n c r e a s e s . And t h e y 14

ma n a g e d t o g e t s ome b y g r i nd i ng f u l l s p e e d on a t oo t h 15

s i t t i ng ou t t h e r e a l on e w i t h no t h i ng a r ound i t a s i t 16

wou l d b e i n a ho r s e ' s mou t h . I n a ho r s e ' s mou t h i t ' s 17

go i ng t o b e s u r r ound e d b y l i v e t i s s u e , b l ood c om i ng a nd 18

go i ng , t h a t k i nd o f t h i ng . So t h a t ' s wh y I t h i n k i t ' s 19

e r r on e ou s . 20

So wha t you ' r e s a y i ng i s you que s t i on t he 21 Q .

me t hodo l ogy o f t h i s s t udy ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 22

Ye s . 23 A .

Ok a y . I wou l d l i k e t o add r e s s some o f t he 24 Q .

conc l us i ons a s we l l . Cou l d you r e ad t he conc l ud i ng 25

465

pa r ag r aph . 1

" I n c on c l u s i on , t h e r e s u l t s o f t h e p r e s e n t 2 A .

s t ud y i nd i c a t e t h a t powe r e d t oo t h g r i nd i ng po s e s a 3

mod e s t r i s k wh e n und e r t a k e n i n y oung ho r s e s u s i ng a n 4

a b r a s i v e d i e w i t h no wa t e r i r r i g a t i on . " Ob v i ou s l y t h e y 5

we r e s e l l i ng wa t e r i r r i g a t i on ma t e r i a l s . " Wh e r e a s t h e 6

i n c r e a s e d d e n t i n e t h i c k n e s s i n o l d e r ho r s e s a pp e a r s t o 7

m i t i g a t e a g a i n s t t h e r ma l i n j u r y f r om f r i c t i on a l h e a t . " 8

Ok a y . I f you wou l d , t a k e a l ook a t t he cha r t 9 Q .

on Page 76 . Cou l d you de s c r i be wha t t ha t cha r t shows . 10

Th e y ' r e a t t emp t i ng t o s how t h e t emp e r a t u r e r i s e 11 A .

i n ho r s e s ' t e e t h f r om y oung v e r s u s o l d ho r s e s a t t h e 12

l e v e l a t wh i c h t h e y me a s u r e d t h e t emp e r a t u r e i n , i t 13

s a y s , i n t h e d e n t a l pu l p f o l l ow i ng g r i nd i ng w i t h a d i s k 14

o r a d i e g r i nd e r . 15

Doe s i t appe a r t ha t t he r e su l t s a r e un i f o r m 16 Q .

a c r os s t he d i f f e r en t age s o f t he ho r s e s? 17

I t s hows t h a t i n t h e y oung ho r s e , t h e 18 A .

t emp e r a t u r e r i s e s we r e a l o t h i gh e r t h a n i n o l d e r 19

ho r s e s . 20

I n f a c t i t appe a r s t he t empe r a t u r e r i s e wa s 21 Q .

mo r e t han 2 deg r e e s h i ghe r t han any o f t he s e o t he r s ; 22

co r r e c t ? 23

R i gh t . Ye s , t h a t ' s c o r r e c t . 24 A .

Ok a y . So wha t wou l d be you r i mp r e s s i on o f a 25 Q .

466

s t udy t ha t p r oduc e s a r e su l t l i k e t ha t ? 1

I wou l d s a y t h a t t h e p e op l e c ondu c t i ng t h e 2 A .

s t ud y h a d no i d e a how t o r e du c e b i g ma l o c c l u s i on s i n a 3

ho r s e ' s mou t h . Be c a u s e a n y bod y who ' s don e v e r y ma n y o f 4

t h em i s go i ng t o r e a l i z e , I don ' t wa n t t o g r i nd on t h i s 5

t oo t h v e r y h a r d , v e r y f a s t w i t hou t s t opp i ng , do i ng 6

s ome t h i ng e l s e , g r a bb i ng a b i g do s e s y r i ng e , r i n s i ng 7

t h e ho r s e ' s mou t h o f f , ou t , wh i c h c oo l s e v e r y t h i ng down 8

a g a i n , a nd t h e n do mo r e wo r k on t h a t t oo t h , i f i t ' s a 9

g r e a t b i g ma l o c c l u s i on s t i c k i ng up t h e r e t h a t n e e d s t o 10

b e t a k e n down . O r e v e n c ome b a c k i n a f ew mon t h s i f 11

i t ' s r e a l l y b i g a nd i f y ou t h i n k t h a t y ou ' r e go i ng t o 12

b e po s s i b l y g e t t i ng n e a r a n y l i v e pu l p . Th e n y ou m i gh t 13

s t a g e i t a nd do i t l a t e r . 14

I f we cou l d , l e t ' s - - c an you us e you r f i nge r 15 Q .

o r hand and demons t r a t e f o r t he Judge t he mo t i on t ha t 16

you wou l d us e and t he k i nd o f spe ed a t wh i ch you wou l d 17

mov e i f you we r e f l oa t i ng t h i s ho r s e ' s t e e t h . 18

I wou l d s a y , a s sume t ha t you r f i nge r s a r e l i k e 19

t he t oo l t ha t you wou l d be en us i ng . 20

Ok a y .21 A .

And show how you wou l d mov e t he t oo l a c r os s t he 22 Q .

t e e t h , j us t so he ge t s an i de a . 23

Ok a y . I f y ou - - i f t h i s we r e t h e - - I do i t 24 A .

a l l w i t h powe r e qu i pme n t , bu t y ou c ou l d do t h e s ame 25

467

t h i ng w i t h a h a nd f l o a t , a f i l e on t h e e nd o f a h a nd l e . 1

A f t e r y ou do y ou r t ho r ough e x am t o s e e wh a t ' s 2

i n t h e r e , f i nd ou t wh a t ' s go i ng on i n t h i s ho r s e ' s 3

mou t h , t h e n y ou wou l d c ome i n a nd , wh a t I wou l d do i s 4

go b a c k h e r e a nd t a k e , f i r s t t h i ng t a k e t h e , w i t h t h e 5

f l o a t o r a powe r f l o a t , e i t h e r on e , c ome b a c k h e r e a t 6

t h e s ame a ng l e a nd t a k e t h e s e s h a r p po i n t s o f f a t a bou t 7

a 45 - d e g r e e a ng l e . And we ' r e no t r e a l l y t a k i ng awa y 8

f r om t h e o c c l u s a l s u r f a c e , p r i ma r i l y , bu t p r i ma r i l y t h e 9

ou t s i d e o f t h e upp e r e dg e s o f t h e upp e r s a nd t h e 10

i n s i d e - - 11

I s t ha t app r ox i ma t e l y t he spe ed a t wh i ch you 12 Q .

wou l d mov e t he t oo l a c r os s t he su r f a c e? 13

Ye s , b e c a u s e I ' m u s i ng a powe r t oo l , s o i t ' s a 14 A .

r o t a t i ng d i s k . I f y ou we r e do i ng a f l o a t y ou p r ob a b l y , 15

y ou m i gh t mo v e i t a l i t t l e b i t f a s t e r . 16

Wou l d you e v e r l e a v e t he t oo l i n one p l a c e on 17 Q .

t he t oo t h? 18

On l y i f y ou h a v e - - f o r e x amp l e , on t h i s t oo t h 19 A .

r i gh t h e r e , wh i c h t h i s t oo t h r i gh t h e r e i s s t i c k i ng 20

down p r e t t y f a r , s o on t h a t t oo t h t h e r e , e i t h e r w i t h a 21

h a nd f l o a t o r powe r e qu i pme n t y ou ' r e go i ng t o s p e nd a 22

l i t t l e mo r e t i me on t h a t t oo t h t o s ho r t e n t h a t up s o i t 23

g e t s ou t o f t h e ho r s e ' s wa y . 24

Wou l d you e v e r ho l d a powe r f l oa t on one t oo t h 25 Q .

468

f o r a du r a t i on o f 20 s e conds? 1

No t w i t hou t s t opp i ng a nd c oo l i ng i t o f f . 2 A .

Ok a y . Do you - - a r e you awa r e o f any 3 Q .

non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r s who wou l d ho l d a t oo l on one 4

t oo t h f o r a du r a t i on o f 20 s e conds? 5

Ac t u a l l y I b e t t e r b a c k up a l i t t l e b i t , b e c a u s e 6 A .

a f t e r s e e i ng s ome o f t h e s e s t ud i e s , wh i c h I b e l i e v e a r e 7

f l awe d a bou t t emp e r a t u r e , I ob t a i n e d on e o f t h e s e 8

i n f r a r e d d e v i c e s t h a t y ou a i m a t a s u r f a c e a nd i t w i l l 9

g i v e y ou i n s t a n t l y a t emp e r a t u r e . And wh a t I f ound 10

f r om do i ng , f r om u s i ng t h a t , wh i c h I go t t h e i d e a f r om 11

on e o f my non - v e t e r i n a r i a n e qu i n e d e n t a l p r a c t i t i on e r 12

f r i e nd s , wh a t I f ound ou t b y do i ng t h a t i s , t h i s i s 13

b a l on e y . 14

Wh a t h a pp e n s i s , w i t h i n 2 s e c ond s o f s t opp i ng 15

wo r k on t h i s , t h e t emp e r a t u r e i s down t o l e s s t h a n 101 . 16

And e v e n t h e t emp e r a t u r e o f a g r i nd i ng d e v i c e i s und e r 17

101 . And down t o , t o r oom t emp e r a t u r e w i t h i n a m i nu t e 18

o r 2 , e s p e c i a l l y wh e n y ou d i p i t i n t h e bu c k e t o f 19

d i s i n f e c t a n t wa t e r , wh i c h i s wh a t we do . 20

Bu t I don ' t - - I t h i n k t h e y ' r e do i ng t h e s e 21

e r r on e ou s l y b y h a v i ng t h e t oo t h i s o l a t e d , f o r on e 22

t h i ng , b e c a u s e I h a v e me a s u r e d b y u s i ng t h e r e d l a s e r 23

p e n , g e t t i ng a r e a d b a c k i mme d i a t e l y , t ho s e 24

t emp e r a t u r e s don ' t g e t t h e r e . 25

469

So i n t he e xpe r i men t t ha t you we r e j us t 1 Q .

de s c r i b i ng t ha t you had pe r f o r med , wa s t h i s i n a l i v e 2

ho r s e o r wa s i t i n a c ada v e r ? 3

Th i s wa s i n l i v e ho r s e s . 4 A .

Ok a y . 5 Q .

I don ' t do c a d a v e r s v e r y o f t e n . 6 A .

Ha v e you cons i de r ed p r oduc i ng a s t udy f o r 7 Q .

pub l i c a t i on t ha t wou l d t r y and dup l i c a t e t he e xpe r i men t 8

t ha t you ha v e done? 9

B r i e f l y . 10 A .

Ok a y . Do you be l i e v e t ha t t he qua l i t y o f t he 11 Q .

r e s e a r ch t ha t you we r e p r oduc i ng wou l d be , o r cou l d be 12

subm i t t ed t o a pe e r - r e v i ew j ou r na l ? 13

I k now i t c ou l d b e s ubm i t t e d ; wh e t h e r i t wa s 14 A .

a c c e p t e d o r no t i s a no t h e r qu e s t i on . Be c a u s e 15

t h e r e ' s - - I me a n , t h e r e ' s po l i t i c a l c o r r e c t n e s s o r 16

no t . And s o i f y ou do a n y t h i ng t h a t s a y s t h a t 17

non - v e t e r i n a r i a n s a r e good a t t h i s , y ou ' r e no t 18

po l i t i c a l l y c o r r e c t . 19

I s e e . I ' m go i ng t o p l a c e i n f r on t o f you 20 Q .

wha t ' s be en ma r k ed a s P l a i n t i f f ' s Exh i b i t - - oh , 21

a c t ua l l y t ha t ' s no t t he one I wa s a i m i ng f o r . 22

P l a i n t i f f Exh i b i t No . 16 . I t ' s en t i t l ed , " I n v i t r o 23

s t udy o f he a t p r oduc t i on du r i ng powe r r educ t i on o f 24

equ i ne mand i bu l a r t e e t h . " Ha v e you r e v i ewed t ha t 25

470

s t udy? 1

Ye s . 2 A .


Th e c on c l u s i on t h a t t h e y r e a c h e d wa s t h a t , t h a t 4 A .

t h e r ma l d ama g e ma y c a u s e i r r e v e r s i b l e d ama g e i n ho r s e s 5

un l e s s wa t e r c oo l i ng i s u s e d . We l l , i n my op i n i on t h a t 6

c ou l d po s s i b l y h a pp e n , bu t i t ' s mo r e l i k e l y t o h a pp e n 7

b y s ome bod y who h a s n ' t don e a l o t o f t e e t h t h a n 8

s ome bod y who ' s don e hund r e d s o f ho r s e s ' t e e t h . So a 9

n ew g r a du a t e w i t h a n ew - - a n ew v e t e r i n a r i a n g r a du a t e 10

w i t h n ew powe r e qu i pme n t i s a l o t mo r e l i k e l y t o c a u s e 11

t h a t k i nd o f d ama g e t h a n s ome bod y who ' s s e e n hund r e d s 12

o r t hou s a nd s o f ho r s e s don e a nd s e e n t h e r e s u l t s o f u s e 13

o r l a c k o f d e n t a l c a r e . 14

Ok a y . So i n you r op i n i on t he s e he a t s t ud i e s , 15 Q .

do t he y change you r op i n i on abou t whe t he r 16

non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r s a r e qua l i f i ed t o f l oa t t e e t h , 17

o r c an be qua l i f i ed t o f l oa t t e e t h? 18

Do e s n ' t c h a ng e my op i n i on a t a l l . 19 A .

I n you r e xpe r i enc e wha t ha s be en t he mos t 20 Q .

common a t t r i bu t e o f someone who i s a good t e e t h 21

f l oa t e r ? 22

Mo s t c ommon a t t r i bu t e i s a t ho r ough j ob o f 23 A .

t a k i ng o f f po i n t s a nd ma l o c c l u s i on s t h a t wou l d hu r t a 24

ho r s e . 25

471

Can you gene r a l i z e abou t t he t ype o f pe r son who 1 Q .

m i gh t be mos t adep t a t t ha t ? 2

I ' m no t s u r e wh a t y ou me a n . 3 A .

Ok a y . Do you be l i e v e t ha t educ a t i on p l a y s a 4 Q .

s i gn i f i c an t f a c t o r i n whe t he r someone i s adep t a t 5

a ch i e v i ng t he r e su l t s t ha t you ' r e t a l k i ng abou t ? 6

We l l , mo s t l y i n t h a t t h e f a r t h e r up t h e 7 A .

s c ho l a s t i c t r e e y ou go t h e l e s s c ommon s e n s e i s 8

a l l owe d ; bu t o t h e r t h a n t h a t , no . 9

So wou l d you s a y t ha t common s ens e i s a v e r y 10 Q .

i mpo r t an t f a c t o r when i t come s t o - - 11

Ye s . And i n t e g r i t y . 12 A .

Ok a y . I n you r p r o f e s s i ona l op i n i on , wou l d you 13 Q .

be mo r e l i k e l y t o r e commend a l i c ens ed v e t e r i na r i an who 14

ha s , s a y , t wo y e a r s o f e xpe r i enc e , o r wou l d you 15

r e commend a non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r who ha s be en 16

wo r k i ng f o r 15 y e a r s? 17

No doub t y ou gu y s k now t h e a n swe r . I ' d r a t h e r 18 A .

h a v e s ome bod y do i t who h a s mo r e e x p e r i e n c e a c t u a l l y 19

do i ng wh a t t h e y ' r e do i ng , wh i c h i s , y e a h , t h e 20

non - v e t e r i n a r i a n who h a s don e mo r e wo r k i n i t . 21

Ok a y . 22 Q .

Be c a u s e we h a v e no r e a s on t o t h i n k t h e 23 A .

v e t e r i n a r i a n h a s a n y k now l e dg e o f i t . 24

How i mpo r t an t a f a c t o r wou l d you s a y e xpe r i enc e 25 Q .

472

i s? 1

E x t r eme l y . E x t r eme l y i mpo r t a n t . You k now , I 2 A .

don ' t wa n t t h e n ewb i e o r t h e f i r s t - t i me r o r wh a t e v e r 3

l e a r n i ng on my ho r s e . 4

Wha t i s you r i mp r e s s i on abou t t he c a r e t ha t 5 Q .

an i ma l owne r s t a k e i n s e l e c t i ng he a l t hc a r e p r ov i de r s 6

f o r t he i r an i ma l s? 7

I t h i n k t h e y t r y t o t a k e a l o t o f c a r e i n t h e 8 A .

s e l e c t i on p r o c e s s . Th e p r ob l em t h e y r un i n t o i s t h a t , 9

b e c a u s e e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y ' s f e a t u r e s a nd b e n e f i t s h a v e 10

no t b e e n i n ou r v e t e r i n a r y s c hoo l s un t i l j u s t t h e l a s t 11

f ew y e a r s , t h e p e op l e t h a t t h e y g e n e r a l l y r e l y on f o r 12

good ho r s e h e a l t h c a r e i n f o r ma t i on h a v e no t k nown a bou t 13

i t , a nd t h e r e f o r e h a v e no t r e c omme nd e d i t , a nd s o t h e y 14

j u s t a s s ume t h a t t h e v e t e r i n a r i a n k nows e v e r y t h i ng , a nd 15

t h e y a r e n ' t awa r e o f t h e , o f t h e b i g l a c k o f c ommon 16

k now l e dg e o f e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y among s t v e t e r i n a r i a n s . 17

We ' v e he a r d t e s t i mony i n t h i s t r i a l abou t t he 18 Q .

pos s i b i l i t y o f i n j u r i e s t ha t m i gh t r e su l t f r om t e e t h 19

f l oa t i ng . Do you r e c a l l i n you r e xpe r i enc e a s e r i ous 20

i n j u r y be i ng c aus ed t o a ho r s e f r om someone who wa s 21

p r ov i d i ng s i mp l e f l oa t i ng? 22

Ye s . 23 A .

And do you r e c a l l when t ha t wa s? 24 Q .

Se v e r a l t i me s o v e r t h e l a s t d e c a d e . 25 A .

473

Wh a t s o r t s o f i n j u r i e s ? 1 Q .

As f a r a s f r om t a k i ng t oo mu c h , i t i s u s u a l l y a 2 A .

y oung v e t e r i n a r i a n w i t h a powe r f l o a t , who a l l o f a 3

s udd e n f i nd s t h a t , oh , I don ' t h a v e t o do t h i s r e a l 4

h a r d . You j u s t t u r n t h i s ma c h i n e on a nd l e t i t g r i nd , 5

a nd g r i nd wh e r e I c a n r e a c h b y f a r t h e mo s t e a s i l y , 6

wh i c h i s t h e f r on t h a l f o f t h e ho r s e ' s mou t h , a nd s o a s 7

a r e s u l t y ou s e e t h e s e t h i ng s t a k e n wa y down o r wa y up , 8

r emo v i ng p a r t o f t h e o c c l u s a l s u r f a c e o f t h e ho r s e ' s 9

c h e e k t e e t h . So t h a t ' s , t h a t ' s t h e mo s t c ommon . 10

Ac t u a l l y , p r ob a b l y wh a t ' s e v e n mo r e i mpo r t a n t 11

i s wh a t t h e y d i d no t do , t h e i s s u e s t h a t t h e y d i d no t 12

a dd r e s s b e c a u s e t h e y d i dn ' t k now t h e y we r e i mpo r t a n t . 13

L i k e t h e b a c k h a l f o f t h e mou t h . O r b i t s e a t s , 14

r ound i ng o v e r t h e c h e e k t e e t h . 15

Wou l d t he s e i n j u r i e s t ha t you ' r e r e f e r r i ng t o , 16 Q .

you r unde r s t and i ng i s t ha t t he y we r e c aus ed by l i c ens ed 17

v e t e r i na r i ans? 18

Ye s . I me a n , s ome o f t h em . Mo s t o f t h em . 19 A .

I t ' s a l mo s t a l wa y s t h e c a s e t h a t - - a nd no t a l wa y s 20

b e c a u s e t h e r e ' s , t h e r e a r e good a nd b a d i n e v e r y p a r t 21

o f a n y f i e l d . Bu t i n g e n e r a l , i f y ou f i nd t h a t a l l t h e 22

po i n t s h a v e b e e n r emo v e d , f r on t t o b a c k , a l l t h e 23

h a r m f u l po i n t s h a v e b e e n r emo v e d , t h e r e a r e good b i t 24

s e a t s on , t h e r e a r e no ma l o c c l u s i on s t h a t h a v e no t b e e n 25

474

a dd r e s s e d , c h a n c e s a r e t h a t ho r s e wa s don e w i t h i n t h e 1

l a s t y e a r o r t wo b y a non - v e t e r i n a r i a n . 2

Ok a y . How common wou l d you s a y t he i n j u r i e s 3 Q .

a r e t ha t you r e f e r enc ed? 4

By f a r t h e mo s t c ommon on p r ob a b l y 90 p e r c e n t 5 A .

o f t h e Un i t e d S t a t e s ho r s e s , a nd p r ob a b l y h i gh e r t h a n 6

t h a t i n t h e wo r l d , i s du e t o no t h a v i ng d e n t i s t r y 7

r e c omme nd e d . Now a s f a r a s - - s o l e t ' s - - f r om no t 8

b e i ng r e c omme nd e d p e r i od . Wh e r e a s a s f a r a s t h e on e s 9

don e b y , wh e r e t h e y a c t u a l l y d i d s ome t h i ng i n t h e r e , 10

t h e mo s t c ommon i s j u s t no t do i ng e nough . So i t ' s mo r e 11

f r om wh a t t h e y don ' t do , a l t hough on c e i n awh i l e t h e y 12

g e t c a r r i e d w i t h t h e powe r f l o a t a nd t a k e wa y t oo mu c h 13

o f f t h e on e s t h a t a r e e a s i e s t t o g e t t o . 14

I t h i nk I d i dn ' t ma k e my que s t i on c l e a r .15 Q .

I ' m s o r r y . 16 A .

I ' m a s k i ng f o r an app r ox i ma t i on o f how common 17 Q .

t he s e t ype s o f t h i ngs a r e . Wou l d you r ega r d i t a s 18

common t o s e e i n j u r i e s c aus ed by s i mp l e f l oa t i ng? 19

No . 20 A .

Wou l d you r ega r d i t a s common t o s e e t he 21 Q .

t r ans f e r o f d i s e a s e s f r om one ho r s e t o ano t he r a s a 22

r e su l t o f f l oa t i ng? 23

No . 24 A .

A r e t he r e any s t eps t ha t a non - v e t e r i na r i an 25 Q .

475

f l oa t e r m i gh t t a k e t o r educ e t he a l r e ady sma l l 1

l i k e l i hood o f d i s e a s e t r ans f e r ? 2

Th e t h e o r y i s t h a t b y d i pp i ng t h e i r h a nd s 3 A .

a nd / o r i n s t r ume n t s i n t o s ome d i s i n f e c t a n t b e t we e n , i n 4

b e t we e n p a t i e n t s o r i n b e t we e n ho r s e s wou l d h e l p 5

p r e v e n t t r a n s f e r o f d i s e a s e s . Th e r e a l t r u t h i s , 6

t hough , t h a t ho r s e m i gh t go r i gh t b a c k i n t h e s t a l l o r 7

p a ddo c k n e x t t o t h e o t h e r ho r s e a nd e x c h a ng e e x h a l e s 8

a nd i nh a l e s w i t h t h e ho r s e n e x t t o t h em , s o t h a t ' s 9

r e a l l y o v e r emph a s i z e d a s f a r a s i t s a b i l i t y t o no t 10

t r a n sm i t d i s e a s e s . 11

So you ' r e s a y i ng t ha t t he d i s e a s e i s f a r mo r e 12 Q .

l i k e l y t o pa s s j us t f r om p r ox i m i t y t han i t i s f r om . . . 13

Ye s . 14 A .

Ok a y . 15 Q .

Ye s . 16 A .

And j us t t o be c l e a r , t h i s i s i n no wa y a 17 Q .

r egu l a r oc cu r r enc e i n you r e xpe r i enc e ; r i gh t ? 18

Th a t ' s r i gh t . 19 A .

Ba s ed on you r e xpe r i enc e do you ha v e any r e a son 20 Q .

t o be l i e v e t ha t a f l oa t e r ' s ab i l i t y o r pe r f o r manc e i s 21

a f f e c t ed by whe t he r o r no t t he y ' r e ge t t i ng pa i d f o r t he 22

wo r k t he y ' r e p r ov i d i ng? 23

I wou l d t h i n k t h a t we a l l h a v e a t e nd e n c y t o - - 24 A .

we l l , i t d e p e nd s . I me a n , s ome t i me s wh e n t h e y ' r e do i ng 25

476

v o l un t a r y wo r k a t a r e s c u e p l a c e , t h e y ' r e go i ng t o do 1

j u s t a s good wo r k a s i f t h e y we r e g e t t i ng p a i d , b e c a u s e 2

t h e y g e t p a i d b a c k i n g r a t i t ud e f r om t h e ho r s e , a nd 3

s a t i s f a c t i on o f h a v i ng h e l p e d t h e ho r s e . So , no . I f 4

t h e y ' r e go i ng t o pu t f o r t h t h e e n e r g y t o do t h e wo r k , 5

t h e y ' r e go i ng t o do i t r e g a r d l e s s . I me a n , I c ou l dn ' t 6

a f f o r d t o do a h i gh p e r c e n t a g e o f i t w i t hou t g e t t i ng 7

p a i d b e c a u s e y ou h a v e t o g e t g r o c e r y mon e y bu t . . . 8

I f t he r e wa s go i ng t o be a d i f f e r enc e , wou l d 9 Q .

you e xpe c t t ha t t he pe r f o r manc e wou l d i mp r ov e w i t hou t 10

ge t t i ng pa i d o r t ha t i t wou l d de c l i ne i f one wa s no t 11

ge t t i ng pa i d? 12

To s ome on e who i s r e a l l y c on c e r n e d w i t h t h e 13 A .

we l f a r e o f a ho r s e , i t wou l dn ' t ma t t e r . 14

Ok a y . One o f t he t h i ngs t ha t ' s be en d i s cus s ed 15 Q .

a t t h i s t r i a l i s t he wa y t ha t v e t e r i na r i ans pe r c e i v e 16

f a r r i e r s . Can you commen t on t he r e l a t i onsh i p be t we en 17

v e t e r i na r i ans and f a r r i e r s? 18

Ye s . Ve t e r i n a r i a n s p r ob a b l y t e nd t o b e h a pp y 19 A .

t o r e f e r a l o t o f t h i ng s b e l ow t h e k n e e t o f a r r i e r s 20

b e c a u s e i t ' s a n aw f u l l o t l i k e wo r k , a nd s o i t ' s b e t t e r 21

t o r e f e r t o s ome bod y who i s mo r e f am i l i a r w i t h i t , e v e n 22

t hough , wh i c h do e s n ' t ma k e s e n s e i n a wa y b e c a u s e t h e 23

f a r r i e r i s wo r k i ng a h a l f i n c h f r om a v i t a l a r t e r y 24

wh i c h - - a nd / o r bon e , wh i c h i f t h a t ' s i n j u r e d i s t h e 25

477

e nd o f t h e ho r s e . Bu t , s t i l l , we ' r e t oo sma r t t o wa n t 1

t o p i c k up t h a t ho r s e ' s f oo t . 2

So you t a l k ed abou t t he p r ox i m i t y o f a f a r r i e r 3 Q .

t o an i mpo r t an t , d i d you s a y an a r t e r y? 4

Su r e . 5 A .

Ok a y . Wou l d you s a y i t i s mo r e common - - we l l , 6 Q .

i f we we r e t a l k i ng abou t i n j u r i e s c aus ed by s i mp l e 7

f l oa t i ng and i n j u r i e s c aus ed by f a r r i e r s wo r k i ng on 8

f e e t , c an you s a y wh i ch wou l d be mo r e l i k e l y o f t he 9

t wo? 10

I wou l d gu e s s i t ' s mo r e l i k e l y t h a t a f a r r i e r 11 A .

wou l d , b y ma y b e pu t t i ng a n a i l t oo c l o s e t o s e n s i t i v e 12

t i s s u e , h a v i ng p r ob l ems a r i s e f r om t h a t t h a n f r om 13

f l o a t i ng . 14

Ok a y . I f you we r e r a t i ng t he r e l a t i v e dange r 15 Q .

t o t he ov e r a l l he a l t h o f t he ho r s e f r om an i n j u r y 16

c aus ed by s i mp l e f l oa t i ng and an i n j u r y c aus ed by wo r k 17

done by a f a r r i e r , wh i ch wou l d you t h i nk pos e s t he 18

g r e a t e r t h r e a t t o t he ho r s e? 19

I wou l d s a y f r om t h e f a r r i e r b e c a u s e t h e ho r s e 20 A .

on l y h a s f ou r f e e t , wh e r e a s a ho r s e h a s go t 24 c h e e k 21

t e e t h t h a t a r e c ommon l y a dd r e s s e d w i t h f l o a t i ng . So 22

i n j u r i ng on e i s no t go i ng t o b e t h e e nd o f t h e ho r s e , 23

wh e r e a s i n j u r i ng on e f oo t ou t o f f ou r i s go i ng t o b e 24

t h e e nd o f t h e - - y ou k now , t h e e nd o f t h e f un c t i on a l 25

478

us e o f t he ho r s e . 1

One o f t he i s sue s t ha t ' s be en b r ough t up 2 Q .

e a r l i e r i n t h i s t r i a l i s t he us e f u l ne s s o f r ad i o l ogy 3

i n e x am i n a t i ons . Cou l d you commen t on you r pe r spe c t i v e 4

r ega r d i ng t he us e o f r ad i o l ogy . 5

Ye s . Ac c o r d i ng t o t h e l a t e s t i n t h e s o - c a l l e d 6 A .

a d v a n c e d v e t e r i n a r y e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y e x p e r t s , i t s hou l d 7

b e - - i t s hou l d b e , a nd I quo t e , ma l p r a c t i c e t o p e r f o r m 8

a n y e x t r a c t i on o f a n y ho r s e ' s t oo t h w i t hou t p r e - a nd 9

po s t - op e r a t i v e r a d i og r a ph s . And t h e s i gn i f i c a n c e o f 10

t h a t t o me i s t h a t o f t h e a pp r o x i ma t e 1500 e x t r a c t i on s 11

t h a t I h a v e don e w i t hou t p r e - a nd / o r po s t - op 12

r a d i og r a ph s , I wou l d no t h a v e b e e n a l l owe d , b e c a u s e o f 13

t h e e x c e s s i v e f e e s g e n e r a t e d b y r e qu i r i ng r a d i og r a ph s , 14

I don ' t t h i n k I wou l d h a v e b e e n a l l owe d t o do 15

10 p e r c e n t o f t h em , wh i c h I k now b e y ond a s h a dow o f a 16

doub t , I h a v e h e l p e d ho r s e s l i v e l ong e r , b e t t e r l i v e s . 17

So you t a l k ed abou t t he add i t i ona l f e e s 18 Q .

gene r a t ed . Abou t wha t k i nd o f f e e s a r e we t a l k i ng? 19

De p e nd s on , on t h e p r a c t i t i on e r . I f I we r e 20 A .

do i ng i t i t m i gh t b e 50 t o a hund r e d do l l a r s mo r e f o r 21

my s i mp l e l i t t l e X - r a y ma c h i n e wh e r e I ' m s t i l l d i pp i ng 22

t h e n e g a t i v e f i l m i n a nd ou t o f a t a n k . Bu t t o t h e 23

on e s t h a t h a v e d i g i t a l r a d i og r a ph i c a nd / o r c ompu t e r i z e d 24

r a d i og r a ph y , t h a t m i gh t b e a c oup l e t hou s a nd do l l a r s 25

479

f o r a r e a d i ng o f t ho s e , t h a t k i nd . 1

And you men t i oned t ha t you wou l dn ' t ha v e be en 2 Q .

a l l owed t o do wo r k i f r ad i o l ogy had be en r equ i r ed . Who 3

wou l d no t ha v e a l l owed you t o do t he wo r k? 4

Th e ho r s e own e r , b e c a u s e t h e y wou l d no t h a v e 5 A .

b e e n a b l e t o a f f o r d i t . 6

Ok a y . So i n you r op i n i on cou l d t he i nc r e a s ed 7 Q .

empha s i s on r ad i o l ogy a s pa r t o f t he s t anda r d o f c a r e 8

a c t ua l l y i mpa c t t he numbe r o f owne r s t ha t a r e ab l e t o 9

ob t a i n s e r v i c e s? 10

De f i n i t e l y . I t h i n k i t wou l d d e c r e a s e t h e 11 A .

a v a i l a b i l i t y t o ho r s e s , b e c a u s e t h e y c ou l dn ' t a f f o r d 12

i t . 13

And w i t h t he r educ t i on and a v a i l ab i l i t y , wha t 14 Q .

wou l d you e xpe c t t he ou t l ook t o be f o r t he he a l t h o f 15

t he an i ma l s? 16

I e x p e c t t o s e e a s l ow - down i n t h e i n c r e a s e d 17 A .

l ong e v i t y . As t h e r e c ogn i t i on o f t h e f e a t u r e s a nd 18

b e n e f i t s o f good f l o a t i ng h a v e b e c ome mo r e b r o a d l y 19

r e c ogn i z e d , we ' r e i n c r e a s i ng t h e l i f e s p a n o f ho r s e s , 20

a l ong w i t h v a c c i n a t i on s a nd d ewo r m i ng a nd a l l t h e s e s 21

t h i ng s . Bu t I t h i n k i t wou l d b e a n e g a t i v e i mp a c t i f 22

i t b e c ome s a r e qu i r eme n t o r s t a nd a r d p r o c e du r e t o 23

r e qu i r e r a d i og r a ph s b e f o r e , o r a r a d i og r a ph i n t h e 24

e x t r a c t i on o f a ho r s e ' s t oo t h . 25

480

You had men t i oned when we we r e t a l k i ng abou t 1 Q .

f a r r i e r s t ha t , o r a t l e a s t you a l l uded t o t he i de a t ha t 2

some v e t e r i na r i ans ma y be d i s suaded f r om do i ng t ha t 3

k i nd o f wo r k be c aus e i t ' s a l o t mo r e l i k e wo r k i s t he 4

ph r a s e you us ed? 5

Ye s . 6 A .

I n y ou r op i n i on m i gh t t h a t ob s e r v a t i on h a v e a n y 7 Q .

r e l e v anc e t o t he us e o f powe r t oo l s i n den t i s t r y? 8

Ce r t a i n l y . As powe r i n s t r ume n t a t i on h a s 9 A .

a d v a n c e d o v e r t h e l a s t f ew y e a r s , i t ' s b e c ome a l o t 10

l e s s ph y s i c a l l y e x e r t i v e t o wo r k on a ho r s e ' s t e e t h 11

t h a n i t wa s b a c k wh e n we d i d i t ma nu a l l y w i t h h a nd 12

f l o a t s . Now t h i s r o t a t i ng d i s k t h a t ' s a n i n c h a nd a 13

qu a r t e r i n d i ame t e r i s r o t a t i ng s o t h a t we c a n s l ow l y 14

mo v e i t b a c k a nd f o r t h o v e r t h e po i n t s t h a t n e e d t o b e 15

s ho r t e n e d a nd g e t t h e j ob don e a l o t e a s i e r f o r a l o t 16

o f u s o l d t i me r s . 17

So f r om t he v e t e r i na r i an ' s po i n t o f v i ew , i t ' s 18 Q .

bo t h e a s i e r and l uc r a t i v e ; co r r e c t ? 19

Ye s . 20 A .

Do you t h i nk t ha t l i c ens ed v e t e r i na r i ans m i gh t 21 Q .

s e e l a y f l oa t e r s a s compe t i t i on f o r do l l a r s? 22

De f i n i t e l y . I t h i n k t h e r e ' s a p r i ma r y 23 A .

i n c e n t i v e . 24

W i t h t he unde r s t and i ng t ha t a h i gh s t anda r d o f 25 Q .

481

c a r e ma y be bene f i c i a l f o r an i nd i v i dua l ho r s e , cou l d 1

you e xp r e s s an op i n i on a s t o wha t t he h i gh s t anda r d o f 2

v e t e r i na r i an c a r e m i gh t me an f o r t he ho r s e popu l a t i on 3

a s a who l e i f i t wa s r equ i r ed t ha t e v e r y an i ma l 4

pe r c e i v e a comp l e t e e x am be f o r e r e c e i v i ng any so r t o f 5

s e r v i c e s? 6

I n c l ud i ng r a d i og r a ph s ? 7 A .

We l l , e i t he r wa y . 8 Q .

I f t h e - - f r om wh a t I h a v e s e e n a f ew d a y s a go 9 A .

a t t h e s o - c a l l e d a d v a n c e d e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y - - 10

v e t e r i n a r y e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y p r e s e n t a t i on s , i f mo r e 11

v e t e r i n a r i a n s a dop t t h a t a s a s t a nd a r d , i t w i l l b e a 12

g r e a t d i s s e r v i c e t o t h e we l l - b e i ng o f t h e ho r s e , 13

b e c a u s e o f t h e f a c t t h a t i t w i l l b e un a f f o r d a b l e t o 14

v e r y ma n y ho r s e own e r s , a nd t h e r e f o r e un a v a i l a b l e t o a 15

l o t o f ho r s e s . 16

I n you r op i n i on who i s t he pe r son be s t s i t ua t ed 17 Q .

t o de c i de t he l e v e l o f c a r e f o r t he i r an i ma l s and who 18

w i l l p r ov i de i t ? 19

E i t h e r t h e ho r s e own e r - - I ' m no t s u r e I 20 A .

und e r s t a nd t h a t c omp l e t e l y . 21

Ok a y . 22 Q .

Some on e who ' s l oo k e d i n a ho r s e ' s mou t h mo r e i s 23 A .

go i ng t o b e a l o t mo r e qu a l i f i e d t o d e t e r m i n e wh a t t h a t 24

ho r s e n e e d s . 25

482

I ' m spe a k i ng mo r e gene r a l l y . When i t come s t o 1 Q .

he a l t hc a r e de c i s i ons f o r an i ma l s , i n you r op i n i on 2

shou l d , shou l d an an i ma l owne r ' s hands be t i ed i n 3

de c i d i ng who ' s go i ng t o p r ov i de s e r v i c e s? 4

Ce r t a i n l y no t . Th e y s hou l d h a v e t h e r i gh t t o 5 A .

c hoo s e who wo r k s on t h e i r a n i ma l s .6

MR . ROLAND : I be l i e v e t hos e a r e a l l t he que s t i ons . 7

THE COURT : I t h i nk we ' r e go i ng t o r e c e s s f o r abou t 8

10 m i nu t e s .9

( B r i e f Re c e s s f r om 3 : 18 t i l l 3 : 37 p . m . )10

THE W I TNESS : S t i l l unde r oa t h , r i gh t ? 11

THE COURT : Ye s . You c an be s e a t ed r i gh t ov e r 12

t he r e . M r . F r own f e l t e r . 13

14



Doc t o r A l l en , I r e c a l l t ha t M r . Ro l and a s k ed 17 Q .

you a que s t i on abou t how , whe t he r you wou l d ha v e 18

conc e r ns i f he we r e t o unde r t a k e do i ng den t i s t r y ; i s 19


I b e l i e v e t h a t ' s c o r r e c t . 21 A .

And I t r us t t ha t t he s ame k i nd o f conc e r ns 22 Q .

wou l d app l y i f , s a y , I we r e t o t r y? 23

Su r e . As s um i ng t h a t y ou h a v e n ' t don e ho r s e 24 A .

d e n t i s t r y .25

483

Ye s . Th i s i sn ' t spe c i f i c t o l awy e r s , i s i t ? 1 Q .

No . 2 A .

Ok a y . Wou l d you ag r e e , t hen , w i t h t he 3 Q .

p r opos i t i on t ha t no t j us t anybody c an do t h i s wo r k? 4

Ye s . 5 A .

Wou l d you ag r e e w i t h t he p r opos i t i on t ha t - - 6 Q .

we l l , wou l d y ou a g r e e w i t h t h e p r opo s i t i on t h a t t h e r e 7

i s a c e r t a i n l e v e l o f know l edge , t r a i n i ng and e xpe r t i s e 8

and e xpe r i enc e t ha t i s ne c e s s a r y f o r an i nd i v i dua l t o 9

be qua l i f i ed t o p r ov i de t he s e s e r v i c e s t o t he pub l i c - -10

Ye s . 11 A .

- - s a f e l y? 12 Q .

Ye s . 13 A .

Now , s a y you we r e - - s a y t he M i s sou r i 14 Q .

l eg i s l a t u r e had a b i l l be f o r e i t i n wh i ch i t wa s 15

cons i de r i ng whe t he r t o e s t ab l i sh a c e r t i f i c a t i on 16

p r og r am f o r peop l e who wou l d be cons i de r ed qua l i f i ed t o 17

do equ i ne den t i s t r y . 18

Ok a y . 19 A .

And i t c a l l ed you , and you we r e a s k ed t o s e r v e 20 Q .

a s a w i t ne s s be f o r e t he l eg i s l a t i v e comm i t t e e t ha t wa s 21

cons i de r i ng t ha t . 22

Ok a y . 23 A .

Wha t wou l d you r t e s t i mony t o t ha t comm i t t e e be? 24 Q .

MR . ROLAND : Ob j e c t i on , You r Hono r . The que s t i on 25

484

i s t h i s c a s e i s no t wha t a s epa r a t e l i c ens i ng s cheme 1

m i gh t be ; t he que s t i on i s whe t he r t he cu r r en t l i c ens i ng 2

s cheme i s cons t i t u t i ona l .3

MR . FROWNFELTER : The Cons t i t u t i on i n que s t i on , 4

i t ' s whe t he r t he r e ' s any r a t i ona l e ba s i s f o r t he 5

l eg i s l a t u r e t o adop t t he , t he c l a s s i f i c a t i on i t ha s , 6

whe t he r i t ' s t o t a l l y a r b i t r a r y and c ap r i c i ous f o r t he 7

l eg i s l a t u r e t o do so . 8

I t h i nk t he que s t i on de f i n i t e l y goe s t o whe t he r o r 9

no t t he , t he doc t o r suppo r t s o r ha s a po i n t o f v i ew on 10

wha t l e v e l o f qua l i f i c a t i on i s ne c e s s a r y i n o r de r t o 11

ma k e a r a t i ona l s cheme . 12

THE COURT : I ' l l ov e r r u l e t he ob j e c t i on . You ma y 13

p r oc e ed .14

( BY MR . FROWNFELTER ) A l l r i gh t , Doc t o r A l l en , 15 Q .

so t he M i s sou r i l eg i s l a t u r e ha s a s k ed you f o r i t , wha t 16

i s you r t e s t i mony t hen go i ng t o be? 17

As f a r a s r e c omme nd i ng wh a t k i nd o f p e op l e a r e 18 A .

a l l owe d t o do e qu i n e f l o a t i ng?19

Ye s . 20 Q .

I wou l d l i k e t o s e e t h a t t h e y h a d e x p e r i e n c e 21 A .

f r om , r e c e i v e d i n s t r u c t i on f r om e x p e r i e n c e d p e op l e who 22

h a v e don e a l o t o f f l o a t i ng , a bou t t h e wa y t o do i t a nd 23

t h e s a f e wa y s t o do i t a nd wh a t t o l oo k f o r a nd how t o 24

hand l e i t .25

485

I f t he l eg i s l a t u r e we r e cons i de r i ng a p r opos a l 1 Q .

t ha t wou l d adop t an o f f i c i a l c e r t i f i c a t i on f o r peop l e 2

t o do t h i s k i nd o f wo r k , wou l d you suppo r t o r oppos e 3

t ha t p r opos a l ? 4

De p e nd s on wh a t t h e y pu t i n t h a t c e r t i f i c a t i on 5 A .

o r r e qu i r eme n t . Bu t i n g e n e r a l , i f i t we r e on t h e 6

b a s i c s o f e qu i n e t e e t h f l o a t i ng , y e s , I ' d b e i n f a v o r 7

o f i t . 8

Do you t h i nk i t wou l d be i mpo r t an t t ha t - - do 9 Q .

you t h i nk t ha t con t i nu i ng educ a t i on i s i mpo r t an t f o r 10

non - v e t e r i na r i ans equ i ne p r a c t i t i one r s? 11

I t h i n k i t ' s i mpo r t a n t f o r a l l o f u s t o k e e p on 12 A .

l e a r n i ng , y e s . 13

I f t he s t a t e we r e p r opos i ng t o c e r t i f y 14 Q .

non - v e t e r i na r i an equ i ne p r ov i de r s , and t he y p r opos ed t o 15

i mpos e a r equ i r emen t t ha t t he y me e t c e r t a i n l e v e l o f 16

con t i nu i ng educ a t i on , wou l d you suppo r t t ha t p r opos a l ? 17

De p e nd i ng on wh a t k i nd o f r e qu i r eme n t s we r e 18 A .

t h e r e , p r ob a b l y . 19

A l l r i gh t , s a y t he y had an hou r l y r equ i r emen t 20 Q .

t ha t e a ch y e a r , s a y , t he p r a c t i t i one r mus t comp l e t e t en 21

hou r s o f con t i nu i ng educ a t i on r e l e v an t t o t he sub j e c t 22

o f an i ma l o r equ i ne den t i s t r y o r t oo t h f l oa t i ng ; wou l d 23

you suppo r t t ha t r equ i r emen t ? 24

Ye s . 25 A .

486

Suppos e i t we r e a f e a t u r e o f t he c e r t i f i c a t i on 1 Q .

p r oc e s s t ha t t he l eg i s l a t u r e wa s cons i de r i ng , t ha t 2

t he r e wou l d be a d i s c i p l i na r y p r oc e s s unde r wh i ch 3

i nd i v i dua l s who had be en shown t o engage i n s e r v i c e s 4

w i t h i ncompe t enc e o r d i shone s t y o r o t he r , o t he r k i nds 5

o f ma l f e a s anc e wou l d be sub j e c t t o d i s c i p l i na r y a c t i on , 6

pe r haps r e voc a t i on o f t he i r c e r t i f i c a t i on , wou l d you 7

suppo r t t ha t e l emen t o f t he l aw? 8

Ye s . 9 A .

Wou l d you suppo r t an e l emen t - - wou l d you 10 Q .

suppo r t a me a su r e wh i ch r equ i r ed , i n o r de r t o be 11

c e r t i f i ed , t ha t a equ i ne den t a l p r a c t i t i one r pa s s some 12

so r t o f qua l i f y i ng e x am i n a t i on? 13

Ye s . 14 A .

A l l r i gh t , you began p r a c t i c i ng - - you we r e 15 Q .

adm i t t ed t o t he v e t e r i na r y p r o f e s s i on i n 1973 ; i s t ha t 16

co r r e c t ? 17

Ye s . 18 A .

Tha t ' s when you g r adua t ed? 19 Q .

Ye a h , r i gh t . 20 A .

And we r e you l i c ens ed i n 1973? 21 Q .

Ye s . 22 A .

Wha t k i nd o f wo r k we r e you do i ng a t t he 23 Q .

beg i nn i ng o f you r c a r e e r ? 24

A t t h e v e r y b e g i nn i ng I wa s wo r k i ng f o r a 25 A .

487

p r a c t i t i on e r i n I l l i no i s , Do c t o r B i l l B r own , a nd I d i d 1

a l i t t l e b i t o f sma l l a n i ma l , dog a nd c a t wo r k a nd s ome 2

ho r s e wo r k a l s o . I don ' t t h i n k we d i d a n y c ow wo r k o r 3

p i g s , j u s t sma l l a n i ma l a nd e qu i n e . 4

When wa s t he f i r s t po i n t o f you r c a r e e r when 5 Q .

you be c ame i nvo l v ed i n equ i ne den t i s t r y and t oo t h 6

f l oa t i ng? 7

I h a d don e a l i t t l e b i t o f t e e t h f l o a t i ng h e r e 8 A .

a nd t h e r e t h r oughou t t h e c a r e e r , bu t I r e a l l y b e c ame 9

i n v o l v e d i n ' 94 , I b e l i e v e i t wa s , wh e n t h e 10

non - v e t e r i n a r i a n a s k e d me ou t t o s e d a t e s ome ho r s e s s o 11

h e c ou l d do s ome e qu i n e , s ome f l o a t i ng .12

D i d you do - - you d i d do t oo t h f l oa t i ng p r i o r 13 Q .

t o t ha t ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 14

Ye s , i f y ou wa n t t o c a l l i t t h a t . I t wa s t h e 15 A .

v e t e r i n a r y me t hod , wh i c h i s t wo f l o a t s a nd a bu c k e t a nd 16

no t l oo k i ng , j u s t b l i nd l y r a t t l i ng t h e f l o a t . 17

How e a r l y i n you r c a r e e r d i d you beg i n do i ng 18 Q .

t ha t ? 19

1972 o r ' 3 . 20 A .

Ok a y . D i d t he p r a c t i c e f o r wh i ch you we r e 21 Q .

wo r k i ng r egu l a r l y t r e a t ho r s e s i n t h i s wa y? 22

Ye s .23 A .

And when you f i r s t l e a r ned t o do t h i s , I t h i nk 24 Q .

you men t i oned t ha t t he r e wa s v e r y l i m i t ed i ns t r uc t i on 25

488

on t ha t i n v e t e r i na r y s choo l ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 1


So how d i d you l e a r n t o f l oa t t e e t h? 3 Q .

I r e a l l y wa s n ' t wo r t h v e r y mu c h a t i t un t i l 4 A .

a f t e r I s aw t ho r ough e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y , o r t ho r ough 5

f l o a t i ng don e b y t h e non - v e t e r i n a r i a n e qu i n e d e n t a l 6

p r a c t i t i one r i n 1994 . 7

I ' m no t t a l k i ng abou t p r o f i c i enc y , I ' m t a l k i ng 8 Q .

abou t t he po i n t i n you r c a r e e r wh i ch you f e l t compe t en t 9

t ha t you , unsupe r v i s ed , cou l d go ou t i n t o a s t ab l e o r 10

go t o a ho r s e t ha t had be en b r ough t i n t o you r p r a c t i c e 11

and f l oa t i t s t e e t h w i t hou t somebody wa t ch i ng wha t you 12

we r e do i ng?13

Oh . Wh e n I g r a du a t e d f r om v e t e r i n a r y s c hoo l I 14 A .

k n ew e v e r y t h i ng , s o I wa s c omp e t e n t t o do a n y t h i ng , wa s 15

my op i n i on , wh i c h wa s ob v i ou s l y w r ong . And t h e n i n 16

1994 I s aw how mu c h I d i dn ' t k now , wh e n I s aw s ome bod y 17

who d i d k now . 18

Bu t you we r e f l oa t i ng t e e t h i n t he 20 y e a r s 19 Q .

be t we en when you began and when t ha t happened? 20

Ha t e t o a dm i t i t , bu t y e s . 21 A .

Do you t h i nk you we r e a c t i ng une t h i c a l l y when 22 Q .

you d i d so? 23

De p e nd s on how e t h i c a l l y d e e p y ou wa n t t o go . 24 A .

F r om t h e ho r s e ' s po i n t o f v i ew I p r ob a b l y wa s n ' t 25

489

b e c a u s e I wa s n ' t v e r y t ho r ough , t h a t I wa s n ' t u s i ng a 1

s p e c u l um , I wa s j u s t b l i nd l y r a t t l i ng t h e f l o a t s a r ound 2

i n t h e r e , wh i c h i s wh a t wa s t a ugh t i n t h e v e t e r i n a r y 3

s c hoo l s un t i l r e c e n t l y . Bu t t h a t wa s c ommon k now l e dg e , 4

t h a t wa s t h e c ommon k now l e dg e , a nd d i dn ' t k now t h a t we 5

s hou l d a c t u a l l y l oo k a t t h em , f e e l t h em , s e e wh a t ' s 6

go i ng on i n t h e ho r s e ' s mou t h . So i t wa s i gno r a n c e . 7

So a t t he t i me t he s t anda r d o f c a r e wa s no 8 Q .

spe cu l um , hand f l oa t s , no s eda t i on? 9

Th e r e m i gh t h a v e b e e n s ome s e d a t i on i n v o l v e d 10 A .

f o r t ho s e o f u s who wa n t e d t o u s e s e d a t i on r a t h e r t h a n 11

ho r s ema n s h i p s k i l l s . 12

Wa s t he r e any k i nd o f phy s i c a l r e s t r a i n t ? 13 Q .

No t o t h e r t h a n a h a l t e r , s t r aw . 14 A .

A l l r i gh t . Do you s t i l l do t oo t h f l oa t i ng i n 15 Q .

you r p r a c t i c e now? 16

Ye s , t h a t ' s a l l I do now . 17 A .

Wha t ' s t he app r ox i ma t e vo l ume o f you r p r a c t i c e? 18 Q .

You me a n do l l a r - w i s e ? 19 A .

Numbe r o f an i ma l s you s e e . 20 Q .

App r o x i ma t e l y 1500 ho r s e s p e r y e a r . 21 A .

1500 . And how many o f t hos e ho r s e s wou l d you 22 Q .

be f l oa t i ng t he i r t e e t h? 23

A l l o f t h em . 24 A .

And how many wou l d you be pe r f o r m i ng o t he r 25 Q .

490

s e r v i c e s , such a t o r a l su r ge r y , pe r i odon t i c s , t h i ngs 1

l i k e t ha t ? 2

I ma y do s ome - - t h e on l y k i nd o f o r a l s u r g e r y 3 A .

I ' m go i ng t o do i s ma y b e s ome e x t r a c t i on s t h a t wou l d 4

r e qu i r e s ome d e e p s e d a t i on a nd / o r s t r ong e r p a i n 5

r e l i e v e r t h a n wou l d b e n e e d e d f o r r ou t i n e d e n t a l 6

f l o a t i ng . Bu t I don ' t do a n y o t h e r t h i ng s . I 7

c on v e n i e n t l y don ' t t a k e a n y t h i ng a l ong t o c l e a n a 8

ho r s e ' s s h e a t h , o r do c ogn a t e s , o r a n y t h i ng e l s e l i k e 9

t h a t . 10

Sa y I own a ho r s e and I b r i ng i t i n t o you r 11 Q .

o f f i c e , and I ' d s a y - - and a l l I know i s t ha t I ' m a new 12

ho r s e owne r , a l l I know i s t ha t somebody t o l d me t ha t I 13

ne ed t o ha v e i t s t e e t h l ook ed a t , pe r haps f l oa t ed , and 14

t ha t Tom A l l en i s t he guy t ha t I shou l d t a k e i t t o t o 15

do t ha t . A l l r i gh t , and I s a y , " Ok a y , he r e ' s my ho r s e , 16

wha t a r e you go i ng t o do? " Wha t wou l d you t e l l - - wha t 17

wou l d t he s t eps t ha t you wou l d t a k e i n o r de r t o t r e a t 18

t ha t ho r s e be? 19

Wh e n I ' m go i ng t o , t o do a ho r s e ' s t e e t h , i f , 20 A .

i f I ' m j u s t go i ng t o e x am i n e t h em f i r s t t o s e e i f t h e y 21

r e a l l y a r e i n n e e d o f i t , I ma y i n t h a t c a s e a s k t h e 22

own e r i f t h e y wa n t me t o j u s t c h e c k w i t hou t s e d a t i ng , 23

i n wh i c h c a s e I ' l l pu t a s p e c u l um on h i m , I ' l l j u s t 24

wa r n t h e own e r , don ' t l e t t h i s ho r s e h i t y ou i n t h e 25

491

h e a d w i t h t h e s p e c u l um b e c a u s e I don ' t wa n t y ou r b l ood 1

on my s p e c u l um . 2

And t h e n I ' l l pu t i t on , op e n i t up a nd r e a c h 3

i n a nd f e e l , f e e l e v e r y t oo t h , a nd e v e n h a v e a l i gh t 4

on , a l t hough I ' m no t i n my t r a i l e r , my mob i l e t r a i l e r , 5

s o i n b r i gh t s un l i gh t i t ' s no t go i ng t o do y ou mu c h 6

good s o y ou n e e d t o b e i n t h e s h a d e wh e r e y ou c a n 7

a c t u a l l y s e e i n t h e r e . You c a n t e l l a l o t j u s t b y 8

f e e l i ng . And s o I ma y j u s t do t h a t a nd t h e n s a y , oh , 9

t h i s ho r s e i s s p e c i a l , we d i d h i m a y e a r a go , i t ' s a 10

20 p l u s y e a r o l d ho r s e , t h e r e ' s no t i ng l oo s e , t h e r e ' s 11

no t h i ng r a t t l i ng a r ound , t h e r e ' s no b a d odo r c om i ng ou t 12

wh e n I sme l l my h a nd , we s k i p y ou f o r a y e a r . " 13

Th a t h a pp e n s a l o t mo r e f r e qu e n t l y on o l d e r , 14

ma t u r e ho r s e s t h a t we ' v e don e , e s p e c i a l l y i f we ' v e don e 15

t h em a y e a r o r s o a go , I ' l l s a y - - o r I m i gh t s a y , 16

" We l l h e r e ' s s ome po i n t s h e r e t h a t a r e bo t h e r i ng h i m a 17

l i t t l e b i t , l e t ' s do t h em now , t h e n l e t ' s s a y i n t wo 18

y e a r s . O r i f y ou s t a r t s e e i ng a n y t h i ng we i r d go i ng on , 19

l e t ' s c h e c k h i m i n a y e a r , " bu t , f o r wh i c h t h e r e ' s no 20

c h a r g e f o r a n y o f t h a t . 21

A l l r i gh t , s a y you do de t e c t a f ew sha r p ename l 22 Q .

po i n t s ; wha t wou l d you r ne x t s t eps be? 23

I f i t we r e s h a r p - - i f t h e y we r e s h a r p e nough 24 A .

a nd o f f e n s i v e e nough t h a t t h e y we r e c a u s i ng t h e a n i ma l 25

492

s ome p a i n , o r e s p e c i a l l y s ome u l c e r a t i on s , t h e n my n e x t 1

s t e p wou l d b e , b e c a u s e I ' m go i ng t o s e d a t e , I wou l d 2

l i s t e n t o h i m w i t h a s t e t ho s c op e a nd s e e i f h i s h e a r t 3

a nd l ung s s ound f i n e , i f h e h a s p l e n t y o f good gu t 4

s ound s , b e c a u s e t h a t ' s i mpo r t a n t . K i nd o f j u s t h e a r t 5

r a t e a nd r e s p i r a t o r y r a t e a nd t h a t k i nd o f t h i ng , a nd 6

t h e n I no t e t h e i r bod y c ond i t i on s c o r e , s e e i f t h e y ' r e , 7

y ou k now , c a n h a ng a h a t on t h e i r r i b s o r t h e y ' r e f a t 8

a nd h a pp y , a nd t h e s e t h i ng s a r e r e c o r d e d on t h e d e n t a l 9

c h a r t t h a t I do , t h a t I u s e . Th e n I wou l d g i v e s ome 10

s e d a t i on a nd t h e n t a k e t h em i n t o my mob i l e e qu i n e 11

d e n t a l un i t a nd do t h e wo r k . 12

Wha t s eda t i v e s do you gene r a l l y us e when you ' r e 13 Q .

wo r k i ng on a ho r s e i n t h i s wa y? 14

I u s e a c omb i n a t i on o f - - r ou t i n e l y u s e a 15 A .

c omb i n a t i on o f Xy l a z i n e , wh i c h h a s b e e n me n t i on e d 16

e a r l i e r , a nd d e r mo s i d a n , wh i c h i s a mo r e po t e n t 17

t r a nqu i l i z e r / s e d a t i v e . And i f i t ' s go i ng - - i f I s e e 18

t h a t i t ' s s ome t h i ng t h a t ' s go i ng t o b e a r e a l t ough 19

e x t r a c t i on , I ' l l u s e a me d i c a t i on c a l l e d To r bug e s i c o r 20

Bu t o r ph a no l T a r t r a t e , wh i c h i s a c t u a l l y , I t h i n k , 21

s t ong e r t h a n mo r ph i n e , a nd i t ' s p a i n - - r e a l l y , y ou 22

c ou l d c u t t h e i r h e a d o f f a nd t h e y wou l dn ' t g e t ma d a t 23

y ou t i l l t h e y wo k e up . 24

I t sounds t o me , and l e t me know i f I ' m ge t t i ng 25 Q .

493

t h i s w r ong , t ha t you r app r oa ch , t hen , t o t r e a t i ng a 1

ho r s e wh i ch i s b r ough t i n w i t h a c l i en t i den t i f i c a t i on 2

a ne ed f o r den t a l e x am and pos s i b l e f l oa t i ng i s , you 3

e x am i n e , you de t e r m i n e - - you e x am i n e t he mou t h , you 4

de t e r m i ne whe t he r t he r e ' s any s i gns o f o r a l d i s e a s e , 5

you de t e r m i ne whe t he r t he r e i s a ne ed , a d i agnos i s , 6

t ha t t he r e ' s a ne ed f o r f l oa t i ng s e r v i c e s , and you 7

adv i s e t he c l i en t and t hen you p r oc e ed . Wou l d t ha t be 8

an a c cu r a t e de s c r i p t i on o f you r p r oc edu r e? 9

Ye s . 10 A .

Do you t h i nk t ha t t he s t anda r d o f c a r e a s you 11 Q .

unde r s t and i t r equ i r e s a l l o f t hos e s t eps? 12

I ' m s o r r y , wou l d y ou r e p e a t t h a t ?13 A .

Do you t h i nk t he s t anda r d o f c a r e f o r equ i ne 14 Q .

den t i s t r y and / o r t oo t h f l oa t i ng r equ i r e s t hos e s t eps? 15

I f y ou ' r e no t go i ng t o s e d a t e t h e n i t p r ob a b l y 16 A .

wou l d no t b e n e a r l y a s i mpo r t a n t t o t a k e t ho s e v i t a l 17

s i gn s a nd a l l t h a t ph y s i c a l e x am t h a t I me n t i on e d , 18

b e c a u s e y ou ' r e no t go i ng t o b e a l t e r i ng t h e i r 19

me t a bo l i sm t h a t mu c h , j u s t , y ou k now . 20

I n wha t pe r c en t age o f c a s e s wou l d you s a y you 21 Q .

s e e t he ne ed t o s eda t e f o r t he i n i t i a l e x am i na t i on? 22

Re a l l y , I l e a v e t h a t up t o a n own e r . I n o t h e r 23 A .

wo r d s , i f t h e y wa n t t o a v o i d a n y e x p e n s e s a nd t h e y ' r e 24

c on f i d e n t a bou t ho l d i ng t h e ho r s e wh i l e I do t h e e x am , 25

494

pu t t i ng t h e s p e c u l um on a nd e x am i n e t h e ho r s e , a nd t h e y 1

don ' t t h i n k t h e ho r s e i s go i ng t o r un o f f o r f l i p o v e r 2

b a c kwa r d s o r k no c k t h e i r h e a d o f f , t h e n I ' l l do i t on 3

a n y o f t h em t h a t t h e y wa n t don e . 4

I f t h e y - - on t h e o t h e r h a nd , s ome p e op l e , 5

e s p e c i a l l y d e p e nd s on t h e b r e e d o f t h e a n i ma l . F o r 6

e x amp l e i f i t ' s a y oung qu a r t e r ho r s e , qu a r t e r ho r s e s 7

h a v e g r e a t b i g ma s s e t e r mu s c l e s h e r e . I f y ou ' r e 8

pu s h i ng i n on t ho s e c h e e k t e e t h i n t h e b a c k h a l f o f t h e 9

mou t h , t h e y ' r e go i ng t o n e e d don e . Th e r e ' s j u s t a v e r y 10

s l i m c h a n c e t h e y won ' t n e e d don e . So mo s t o f t ho s e 11

own e r s a r e go i ng t o s a y , do i t . So I ' l l go a h e a d a nd 12

t a k e v i t a l s i gn s a nd do t h e s e d a t i on , b e c a u s e a v e r y 13

s l i m c h a n c e t h a t t h e y won ' t n e e d s ome po i n t s t a k e n o f f , 14

e v e n i f i t wa s s i x t o n i n e mon t h s e a r l i e r t h a t we t oo k 15

t ho s e po i n t s o f f . 16

Ok a y . I n you r t e s t i mony you compa r ed t he 17 Q .

cu r r i cu l um a t t he Ac ademy o f Equ i ne Den t i s t r y t o wha t 18

you had when you we r e i n v e t e r i na r y s choo l ; i s t ha t 19

co r r e c t ? 20

I b e l i e v e I d i d . 21 A .

And you g r adua t ed f r om v e t e r i na r y s choo l i n 22 Q .

1973 ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 23

Th a t ' s c o r r e c t . We r od e d i no s a u r s t o s c hoo l . 24 A .

So i n e s s enc e , t ha t i s a compa r i son be t we en 25 Q .

495

wha t wa s t augh t a t t he Ac ademy o f Equ i ne Den t i s t r y i n 1

2002 , when you we r e t he r e , and 30 y e a r s e a r l i e r , i n 2

1973 wh e n y ou we r e i n v e t e r i n a r y s c hoo l ; i s t h a t 3

co r r e c t ? 4

Ac t u a l l y , i t wa s a c omp a r i s on t o a c t u a l l y j u s t 5 A .

t wo o r t h r e e y e a r s a go , b e c a u s e I d i d r e v i ew a l l t ho s e 6

AVMA , Ame r i c a n Ve t e r i n a r y Me d i c a l As s o c i a t i on r e c o r d s 7

o f t h e c u r r i c u l a a t a l l o f t h e Un i t e d S t a t e s v e t e r i n a r y 8

s c hoo l s . 9

A l l r i gh t , do t he y t e a ch e x t r a c t i on a t t he 10 Q .

Ac ademy o f Equ i ne Den t i s t r y? 11

I b e l i e v e t h e y , t h e y t e a c h how t o t e l l wh e n a n 12 A .

e x t r a c t i on i s r e qu i r e d s o t h a t t h e r e f o r e t h e 13

non - v e t e r i n a r y p r a c t i t i on e r c a n r e f e r t h a t c a s e t o a 14

v e t e r i n a r i a n i f n e c e s s a r y . 15

Do t he y t e a ch any t e chn i que s o f e x t r a c t i on?16 Q .

Th e y p r ob a b l y , t h e y p r ob a b l y t e a c h s ome 17 A .

e x t r a c t i on t e c hn i qu e s f o r wo l f t e e t h , f o r e x amp l e , 18

wh i c h a r e l i t t l e b i t t y t e e t h a bou t t h e s i z e o f on e o f 19

y ou r s o r m i n e , b e c a u s e v a r y i ng b y t h e s t a t e - - o f 20

c ou r s e t h e r e a r e s t ud e n t s t h e r e f r om s t a t e s a l l o v e r 21

t h e Un i t e d S t a t e s a nd a l l o v e r t h e wo r l d , a nd s ome 22

s t a t e s i t ' s l e g a l f o r t h e non - v e t e r i n a r y e qu i n e d e n t a l 23

p r a c t i t i on e r t o do t h a t e i t h e r w i t h i nd i r e c t o r d i r e c t 24

s up e r v i s i on o f a v e t e r i n a r i a n . And s ome s t a t e s , wh a t 25

496

t h a t me a n s i s , y ou k now t h e v e t e r i n a r i a n ' s c e l l phon e , 1

a nd t h e y k now y ou ' r e do i ng i t , a nd , y ou k now , t h e y ma y 2

h a v e d i s p e n s e d t h e s e d a t i v e f o r y ou i f y ou n e e d e d i t 3

f o r t h a t . I t v a r i e s b y s t a t e . 4

I t h i nk - - oh , a r e t he r e any o t he r t e chn i que s 5 Q .

o r p r oc edu r e s be s i de s t he s t r i c t de f i n i t i on o f f l oa t i ng 6

and pos s i b l y t he woo f t e e t h e x t r a c t i on wh i ch a r e t augh t 7

a t t he Ac ademy o f Equ i ne Den t i s t r y? 8

Th e y wou l d c e r t a i n l y t e a c h t h e r unn i ng o v e r o f 9 A .

c a n i n e s , t ho s e , t h e s h a r p f a ng , t h e b i g s h a r p f a ng s 10

t h a t t h e ma l e s h a v e , b e c a u s e t h e y v e r y c ommon l y s l i c e 11

t h e h e c k ou t o f a ho r s e ' s t ongu e . So t h e y wou l d 12

c e r t a i n l y t e a c h t h e r ound i ng o v e r o f c a n i n e s .13

I t h i nk M r . Ro l and a s k ed you a t one po i n t i f 14 Q .

t he r e we r e o t he r de f i n i t i ons o f t e e t h f l oa t i ng i n 15

d i f f e r en t p l a c e s . And I made a no t e t ha t you made a 16

commen t abou t t he mo r e adv anc ed p r oc edu r e s be i ng 17

i nc l uded i n some de f i n i t i ons . 18

Do you r e c a l l t ha t t e s t i mony? 19

Va gu e l y . 20 A .

Wha t k i nd o f mo r e adv anc ed p r oc edu r e s i n you r 21 Q .

e xpe r i enc e do some peop l e i nc l ude i n t he de f i n i t i on o f 22

t oo t h f l oa t i ng? 23

I t g e t s down t o p r e t t y f i n a l l y n i t p i c k i ng . F o r 24 A .

e x amp l e , wh e t h e r o r no t y ou t a k e ou t wo l f t e e t h , 25

497

wh e t h e r o r no t y ou t a k e ou t a t oo t h t h a t i s s o l oo s e 1

t h a t y ou c a n , y ou c a n go d i g i t a l a nd r emo v e i t w i t h 2

y ou r d i g i t s , y ou k now , t h e n - - t h a t ' s k i nd o f a f i n e 3

l i n e , bu t t o me i t ' s no t , I me a n , i t j u s t h e l p s t h e 4

ho r s e a l i v e b e t t e r b y g e t t i ng t h e f o r e i gn - - b y t h e n 5

i s a f o r e i gn ob j e c t ou t o f h i s mou t h , a nd s ome , s ome 6

s t a t e r e gu l a t o r y l aws a r e go i ng t o s a y , y ou ' r e j u s t 7

p r a c t i c i ng v e t e r i n a r y me d i c i n e w i t hou t a l i c e n s e , y ou 8

c a n ' t do t h a t . So y ou ' r e no t a l l owe d t o h e l p t h e ho r s e 9

l i v e l ong e r un l e s s y ou h a v e a v e t e r i n a r y d e g r e e . So 10

t h e r e ' s l o t s o f d i f f e r e n t f i n e l i n e s . 11

You men t i oned t ha t I AED , t ha t ' s I n t e r na t i ona l 12 Q .

As soc i a t i on o f Equ i ne Den t i s t r y ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 13

Th a t ' s c o r r e c t . 14 A .

Tha t t he c e r t i f i c a t i on i s a c c ep t ed i n some 15 Q .

s t a t e s ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 16

Ye s , i t i s . 17 A .

A l l r i gh t , i s i t c e r t i f i ed o r r e cogn i z ed i n 18 Q .

M i s sou r i ? 19

I don ' t t h i nk so . 20 A .

Doe s t he s t a t us o f equ i ne den t i s t r y ha v e any 21 Q .

r e cogn i t i on a s a spe c i a l t y i n M i s sou r i ? 22

I ' m s o r r y , wou l d y ou r e p e a t t h a t . 23 A .

Doe s t he s t a t us o f equ i ne den t i s t r y , e i t he r l a y 24 Q .

o r v e t e r i na r y , ha v e any r e cogn i t i on i n t he S t a t e o f 25

498

M i s sou r i ? 1

To my k now l e dg e on l y v e t e r i n a r i a n s h a v e a n y 2 A .

s t a t u s a s f a r a s b e i ng a b l e t o l e g a l l y p r o v i d e d e n t a l 3

c a r e i n M i s s ou r i . 4

Can you a s a v e t e r i na r i an c l a i m t ha t you a r e a 5 Q .

spe c i a l i s t i n any a r e a? 6

No . 7 A .

No t you pa r t i cu l a r ; c an any v e t e r i na r i an - - 8 Q .

No . 9 A .

- - i n M i s sou r i c l a i m t he y ' r e a spe c i a l i s t ? 10 Q .

No . 11 A .

Why i s t ha t ? 12 Q .

Be c a u s e t h e r e h a s no t b e e n a - - i t s ound s l i k e 13 A .

t h e r e s hou l d b e , s i n c e t h a t ' s a l l I ' v e don e f o r t h e 14

l a s t - - I s hou l d b e a b l e t o s a y I ' m a s p e c i a l i s t . 15

We l l , t h e s t r i c t l e g a l t e r m o f t h a t me a n s y ou h a v e gon e 16

t h r ough t h e a c a d em i c s t e p s t o b e c ome - - y ou h a v e t o 17

h a v e a bo a r d o f c e r t i f i c a t i on , a s p e c i a l t y bo a r d .18

Th e y s t a r t e d a i m i ng t owa r d s t h a t a f ew y e a r s 19

a go , bu t i t ' s no t b e e n e s t a b l i s h e d y e t . You c a nno t 20

l e g a l l y c l a i m a s p e c i a l t y i n e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y a t t h i s 21

po i n t i n t i me . You c a n s a y , " P r a c t i c e L i m i t e d t o . " 22

I r e c a l l t ha t you t e s t i f i ed a t one po i n t t ha t 23 Q .

you t h i nk t ha t v e t e r i na r i ans v i ew non - v e t e r i na r i an 24

equ i ne den t a l p r a c t i t i one r s a s e conom i c compe t i t i on ; i s 25

499

t ha t co r r e c t ?1

Ye s .2 A .

And you t e s t i f i ed t ha t some v e t e r i na r i ans w i l l 3 Q .

s t op p r ov i d i ng s e r v i c e s t o a c l i en t who us e s a 4

non - v e t e r i na r y p r ov i de r ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 5

Ye s . 6 A .

I n wha t wa y doe s i t ma k e e conom i c s ens e f o r a 7 Q .

v e t e r i na r i an t o s t op p r ov i d i ng any s e r v i c e s t o a c l i en t 8

who ha s s t opped us i ng t he v e t e r i na r i an , a pa r t o f h i s 9

s e r v i c e s? 10

I wou l d h a v e t o a s s ume , a nd no t b e i ng o f t h a t 11 A .

m i nd s e t , bu t I wou l d h a v e t o a s s ume t h a t t h e y ' r e j u s t 12

t r y i ng t o s p a n k t h e c l i e n t f o r no t u s i ng t h em f o r do i ng 13

t h e e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y ; f o r h a v i ng t h e a ud a c i t y t o u s e 14

s ome bod y t h a t c a n do a b e t t e r j ob a t i t .15

A l l r i gh t , M r . Ro l and a s k ed you abou t a numbe r 16 Q .

o f t he s t ud i e s t ha t we r e i n t r oduc ed e a r l i e r . The r e 17

we r e t he s t ud i e s by Doc t o r Ca r ma l t ; i s t ha t co r r e c t ? 18

Ye s . 19 A .

And t he s t ud i e s r ega r d i ng t he r ma l i mpa c t ? 20 Q .

Ye s . 21 A .

And t he r e we r e a numbe r o f t hem t ha t he showed 22 Q .

t o you and you d i s cus s ed you r r e s e r v a t i ons w i t h us ; i s 23


Ye s . 25 A .

500

A r e you awa r e whe t he r o r no t t he , t he Jou r na l 1 Q .

o f t he Ame r i c an Ve t e r i na r i an Med i c a l As soc i a t i on i s a 2

pe e r - r e v i ewed pub l i c a t i on? 3

I t i s . 4 A .

And wou l d you ag r e e t ha t t he a r t i c l e s t ha t you 5 Q .

we r e c r i t i c i z i ng we r e a l l pe e r - r e v i ewed pub l i c a t i ons? 6

I wou l dn ' t doub t i t . 7 A .

And doe s t ha t change i n any you r r e a c t i on t o 8 Q .

t he con t en t o f t he a r t i c l e s? 9

No . 10 A .

I f you we r e t o w r i t e an a r t i c l e pu t t i ng f o r t h 11 Q .

you r v i ews on t he qua l i f i c a t i on o f non - v e t e r i na r y 12

equ i ne p r a c t i t i one r s r e l a t i v e t o v e t e r i na r i ans , wou l d 13

you subm i t t ha t t o a pe e r - r e v i ewed pub l i c a t i on such a s 14

t he Jou r na l o f t he Ame r i c an Ve t e r i na r y Med i c a l 15

As soc i a t i on? 16

Su r e . And i t wou l d c ome r i gh t b a c k i n my f a c e , 17 A .

I gu a r a n t y y ou . 18

So i t ' s you r e xpe c t a t i on t ha t you r op i n i on i n 19 Q .

t ha t r ega r d wou l d no t be pub l i shed by such a 20

pe e r - r e v i ewed pub l i c a t i on? 21

By a v e t e r i n a r y p e e r - r e v i ewe d pub l i c a t i on . Now 22 A .

b y a ho r s e own e r s pub l i c a t i on i t wou l d , a nd t h e y h a v e 23

b e e n . 24

Bu t w i t h i n t he p r o f e s s i ona l , w i t h i n t he 25 Q .

501

v e t e r i na r y med i c a l p r o f e s s i on , you do no t t h i nk t he y 1

wou l d pub l i sh you r v i ews? 2

I don ' t k now , t h e y m i gh t . De p e nd s on how , how 3 A .

mu c h t h e y t hough t t h e y we r e c a ugh t b e t we e n a r o c k a nd a 4

h a r d p l a c e . I f t h e y t hough t I h a d p l e n t y o f p r oo f t o 5

s how t h a t t h e mo t i v a t i on b e h i nd t h e v e t e r i n a r y memb e r s 6

a r e pu r e l y f i n a n c i a l , a nd t h e y t hough t I h a d e nough 7

p r oo f t o b r i ng i t ou t i n s ome o f t h e popu l a r , y ou k now , 8

We s t e r n Ho r s ema n o r Equ i d s o r s ome o f t ho s e o t h e r b i g 9

ma g a z i n e s , t h e y ' d p r ob a b l y do i t ou t o f f e a r o f g e t t i ng 10

c a ugh t t u r n i ng me down . Do y ou k now wh a t I me a n? 11

Wou l d i t be s a f e t o s a y t ha t much o f t he 12 Q .

e s t ab l i shmen t o f t he v e t e r i na r y p r o f e s s i on d i s ag r e e s 13

w i t h you r v i ew on t he qua l i f i c a t i ons o f equ i ne den t a l 14

p r a c t i t i one r s? 15

Su r e , y e s . 16 A .

Wou l d i t be s a f e t o s a y t ha t a v a s t ma j o r i t y o f 17 Q .

v e t e r i na r i ans d i s ag r e e w i t h you r v i ews? 18

I ' m no t s u r e how i t wou l d c ome down t o a 19 A .

p e r c e n t a g e v o t e . Th e l oud e s t s p e a k i ng on e s c e r t a i n l y 20

s po k e , a r e a g a i n s t me ; bu t t h e on e s t h a t a r e 21

h a r dwo r k i ng , i n s t e a d o f b e i ng i n , b e i ng po l i t i c ho s e d , 22

bu t a r e ou t wo r k i ng h a r d e v e r y d a y , a l o t o f t h em r e f e r 23

t o t h e non - v e t e r i n a r i a n e qu i n e d e n t a l p r a c t i t i on e r s 24

b e c a u s e t h e y j u s t a s s oon s e e t h e ho r s e g e t a good 25

502

d e a l , a nd t h e ho r s e own e r . 1

Wou l d i t be s a f e t o s a y t ha t a l a r ge po r t i on , 2 Q .

no t ne c e s s a r i l y v a s t bu t a l a r ge po r t i on o f t he 3

v e t e r i na r y med i c a l p r o f e s s i on d i s ag r e e s w i t h you r po i n t 4

o f v i ew? 5

I ' m no t s u r e wh a t p e r c e n t a g e i t wou l d b e , 6 A .

r e a l l y . 7

I ' m no t a s k i ng f o r pe r c en t age . I ' m j us t 8 Q .

a s k i ng , wou l d you ag r e e t ha t a l a r ge po r t i on - - t ha t 9

t he po r t i on i s l a r ge t ha t i t ' s mo r e t ha t - - wou l d you 10

ag r e e t ha t you r s i s a m i no r i t y v i ew i n t he p r o f e s s i on? 11

I don ' t k now a bou t t h a t . I ' d h a v e t o s e e a 12 A .

v o t e , a s t r e e t l e v e l v o t e among s t v e t e r i n a r i a n s , a s 13

oppo s e d t o v e t e r i n a r i a n s t h a t a r e on b i g c omm i t t e e s . 14

Bu t t he one s who a r e i n t he AVMA and sou r c e s 15 Q .

l i k e t ha t , i s i t you r op i n i on t ha t much o f t he 16

p r o f e s s i on d i s ag r e e s w i t h you r po i n t o f v i ew? 17

Mu c h . Th e l oud e s t mou t h s on e s do . I ' m no t 18 A .

s u r e a bou t t h e numb e r s . Th e r e ma y b e mo r e , a c t u a l l y 19

mo r e v e t e r i n a r i a n s t h a t a g r e e w i t h my po i n t o f v i ew 20

t h a n wou l d a g r e e w i t h t h e s o - c a l l e d a d v a n c e d po i n t o f 21

v i ew . 22



25

503


BY MR . ROLAND :2

Doc t o r A l l en , wou l d you cons i de r much o f 3 Q .

M i s sou r i t o be spa r s e l y popu l a t ed? 4

To b e wh a t ? 5 A .

Spa r s e l y popu l a t ed . 6 Q .

Oh , I ' m s o r r y . 7 A .

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ob j e c t i on , i t ' s be yond t he s cope 8

o f t he c r os s . 9

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , M r . F r own f e l t e r r a i s ed t he 10

que s t i on o f why a ho r s e owne r m i gh t be ne r vous abou t 11

l os i ng t he i r v e t e r i na r i an f o r ha v i ng an equ i ne f l oa t e r 12

o r a non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r do s e r v i c e s . I i n t end t o 13

show t ha t t he r e a r e good r e a sons why a ho r s e owne r 14

m i gh t be l e e r y o f l o s i ng t he s e r v i c e s o f t he i r 15

v e t e r i na r i an . 16

THE COURT : I ' l l o v e r r u l e t he ob j e c t i on .17


THE COURT : You ma y p r oc e ed . 19

( BY MR . ROLAND) A r e t he r e pa r t s o f t he s t a t e 20 Q .

whe r e i t m i gh t be d i f f i cu l t t o f i nd a v e t e r i na r i an? 21


And i n t he s e pa r t s o f t he s t a t e , wou l d a ho r s e 23 Q .

owne r ha v e a r ange o f o t he r v e t e r i na r y op t i ons i f one 24

v e t e r i na r i an de c i ded no t t o s e r v e t hem? 25

504

I f - - i n l o t s o f po r t i on s o f t h i s s t a t e wh e r e 1 A .

t h e l a r g e a n i ma l o r e s p e c i a l l y e qu i n e p r a c t i t i on e r s a r e 2

f ew a nd f a r b e t we e n , t h e ho r s e own e r wou l d b e up t h e 3

c r e e k i f t h e y we r e d e n i e d t h e s e r v i c e s f r om t h e i r 4

v e t e r i n a r i a n b y , b e c a u s e o f h a v i ng t h e a ud a c i t y t o u s e 5

a non - v e t e r i n a r i a n . 6

And i f a ho r s e owne r s - - o r i f t he v e t e r i na r i an 7 Q .

c l os e s t t o a ho r s e owne r r e f us ed t o s e r v e t hem , how 8

wou l d t ha t i mpa c t t he cos t s o f he a l t h c a r e s e r v i c e s f o r 9

t he ho r s e owne r ? 10

I t wou l d g r e a t l y i n c r e a s e t h e c o s t b e c a u s e t h e y 11 A .

wou l d e i t h e r h a v e t o t a k e t h e i r ho r s e s t o a p r o v i d e r o r 12

p a y a h i gh e r f e e t o h a v e t h a t p r a c t i t i on e r c ome t h e r e , 13

i f t h e y c ou l d g e t t h em t o do t h a t , i f t h e y we r e no t t oo 14

bu s y t o do i t .15

So i n l i gh t o f a l l t h i s , wou l d you s a y t ha t , 16 Q .

t ha t t he r e i s i n f a c t good r e a son t ha t a v e t e r i na r i an 17

m i gh t - - o r l e t me s t r i k e t ha t and I ' l l a s k a s l i gh t l y 18

d i f f e r en t que s t i on .19

Do you be l i e v e t ha t v e t e r i na r i ans a r e awa r e o f 20

t he cons equenc e s o f t he i r den i a l o f s e r v i c e t o t he 21

ho r s e owne r s i n t h i s r ega r d? 22

Ye s , s u r e . Be c a u s e t h e y r e a d t h e s ame a r t i c l e s 23 A .

I do a bou t t h e s ho r t a g e s o f l a r g e a n i ma l p r a c t i t i on e r s . 24

Ok a y . I n you r op i n i on doe s t ha t t hen a l l ow t he 25 Q .

505

v e t e r i na r i an t he l uxu r y o f deny i ng s e r v i c e t o someone 1

who ha s us ed a non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r ? 2

So mu c h s o t h a t s ome ho r s e own e r s w i l l h a v e a 3 A .

v e t e r i n a r i a n do a ho r s e o r t wo t o k e e p t h e i r s e r v i c e s 4

i n t a c t wh i l e t h e y h a v e t h e v a s t ma j o r i t y o f t h e i r 5

o t h e r ho r s e s don e b y a non - v e t e r i n a r y e qu i n e d e n t a l 6

p r a c t i t i on e r . 7

Do you ha v e pe r sona l know l edge o f t h i s? 8 Q .

Ye s . 9 A .

And t h i s i s i n t he S t a t e o f M i s sou r i ? 10 Q .

Ye s . 11 A .

So you a r e pe r sona l l y awa r e t ha t some ho r s e 12 Q .

owne r s i n t he S t a t e o f M i s sou r i w i l l ha v e a coup l e o f 13

ho r s e t e e t h f l oa t ed i n o r de r t o s e cu r e t he 14

v e t e r i na r i an ' s s e r v i c e s wh i l e ha v i ng t he r e s t o f t he i r 15

an i ma l s ' t e e t h f l oa t ed by a non - v e t e r i na r i an? 16

Ye s . 17 A .

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ob j e c t i on , l e ad i ng and a s k ed and 18

answe r ed .19

THE COURT : Sus t a i ned . Tha t answe r W i l l be 20

s t r i c k en .21

( BY MR . ROLAND ) Who s i t s on t he comm i t t e e 22 Q .

t ha t , o f t he pe e r - r e v i ewed j ou r na l s t ha t we d i s cus s ed , 23

t he v e t e r i na r y pe e r - r e v i ewed j ou r na l s? 24

Ve t e r i n a r i a n s . Us u a l l y t h e y ' r e 25 A .

506

a c a d em i c - o r i e n t e d v e t e r i n a r i a n s . 1

I n you r op i n i on m i gh t t he y ha v e an i nc en t i v e t o 2 Q .

d i s coun t a r t i c l e s subm i t t ed t o t hem t ha t wou l d suppo r t 3

t he v a l i d i t y o f non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t i ng?4

Su r e .5 A .

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ob j e c t i on , l e ad i ng . 6

THE COURT : Sus t a i ned . S t r i k e t he answe r .7

MR . ROLAND : I ' l l r eph r a s e . 8

( BY MR . ROLAND) Why m i gh t t he v e t e r i na r i an 9 Q .

pe e r - r e v i ewed j ou r na l s t u r n awa y a r t i c l e s r ega r d i ng 10

non - v e t e r i na r i an f l oa t e r s? 11

Pu r e l y f i n a n c i a l . Th e y k now t h a t a s t h e 12 A .

a v a i l a b i l i t y o f e qu i n e - - o f l a r g e a n i ma l p r a c t i t i on e r s 13

i n g e n e r e a l i s d e c r e a s i ng , t h e r e l a t i v e l y n ew f i e l d o f 14

e qu i n e d e n t i s t r y a nd t h e n ew s e d a t i v e s a nd n ew powe r 15

e qu i pme n t ma k e i t e a s i e r f o r v e t e r i n a r i a n s t o do i t , 16

a nd s o t h e y wa n t t o t r y t o ma i n t a i n t h a t p a r t o f t h e 17

p r a c t i c e . I me a n no t a l l o f t h em a r e t h a t wa y , bu t 18

some o f t hem a r e . 19

I f t he l eg i s l a t u r e we r e cons i de r i ng a l aw t ha t 20 Q .

wou l d add r e s s who ma y f l oa t ho r s e ' s t e e t h , wha t do you 21

t h i nk t he p r i ma r y conc e r n o f t ha t l aw shou l d be? 22

Th e s a f e t y o f t h e ho r s e . 23 A .

Ok a y . I f you we r e a s k ed t o o f f e r adv i c e t o t he 24 Q .

l eg i s l a t u r e on t he qua l i t i e s o r t he a t t r i bu t e s o f a 25

507

pe r son mos t l i k e l y t o p r o t e c t t he s a f e t y o f t he ho r s e , 1

wha t a t t r i bu t e s o r qua l i t i e s wou l d you s a y t o t hem a r e 2

t he mos t i mpo r t an t ? 3

Hon e s t y a nd i n t e g r i t y a nd t h e n - - f o r emo s t , a nd 4 A .

t h e n , o f c ou r s e , e x p e r i e n c e do i ng t h e , a s f a r a s b e i ng 5

a b l e t o b e c e r t i f i e d , h a v i ng e x p e r i e n c e w i t h t h e f i e l d . 6

I f one o f t he l eg i s l a t o r s a s k ed you whe t he r 7 Q .

t r a i n i ng a t a v e t e r i na r y s choo l shou l d be pa r t o f t h i s 8

l aw , how wou l d you r e spond? 9

Th a t ' s c h a ng i ng . Un t i l t h e l a s t f ew y e a r s I ' d 10 A .

s a y , y ou ' r e t e a c h i ng t h em a r c h i t e c t u r e a nd e ng i n e e r i ng 11

r a t h e r t h a n how t o d r i v e a n a i l t o bu i l d a hou s e . And 12

wh a t t h e y h a v e b e e n s a y i ng i s , i n o r d e r t o b e a 13

c a r p e n t e r , t o b e a b l e t o n a i l bo a r d s t og e t h e r t o bu i l d 14

a hou s e , y ou h a v e t o h a v e a d e g r e e i n a r c h i t e c t u r e o r 15

e ng i n e e r i ng . Wh e r e a s , a good c a r p e n t e r who ' s bu i l t a 16

l o t o f hou s e s ma y no t h a v e t ho s e . 17

So wh a t I ' m s a y i ng i s , t h e r e a r e a l o t o f 18

t h i ng s t h a t a r e r e qu i r e d i n v e t e r i n a r y s c hoo l t h a t a r e 19

no t a t a l l p e r t i n e n t t o good t e e t h f l o a t i ng . So t h e 20

p r a c t i c a l a pp l i c a t i on o f do i ng good t e e t h f l o a t i ng i s 21

b y f a r t h e mo s t i mpo r t a n t f e a t u r e .22

MR . ROLAND : I be l i e v e I ha v e no f u r t he r que s t i ons , 23

You r Hono r . 24

MR . FROWNFELTER : No t h i ng f u r t he r . 25

508

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t , t hank you . You ma y s t ep 1

down . 2

MR . ROLAND : You r Hono r , we ha v e no f u r t he r human 3

w i t ne s s e s , o r i n pe r son w i t ne s s e s ; we do w i sh t o subm i t 4

i n t o e v i denc e t he depos i t i on o f Doc t o r Se an S t r a i n .5


e v i denc e . ) 7


THE COURT : Tha t ' s De f endan t ' s No . , wha t a r e we on , 9

9? 10

MR . ROLAND : 9 .11

THE COURT : Who d i d you s a y t he depos i t i on wa s o f ? 12

MR . ROLAND : Doc t o r Se an S t r a i n . 13

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t , s ame w i l l be adm i t t ed . 14

(De f endan t ' s Exh i b i t No . 9 wa s adn i t t ed i n t o15

e v i denc e . )16

MR . ROLAND : And w i t h t ha t I be l i e v e t he de f ens e 17

r e s t s t he i r c a s e . 18

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . M r . F r own f e l t e r . 19

MR . FROWNFELTER : We ha v e no r ebu t t a l , You r Hono r . 20

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . Do you w i sh t o ma k e c l os i ng 21

a r gumen t s?22

MR . FROWNFELTER : We d i s cus s ed t ha t . We bo t h 23

be l i e v e t ha t i t ' s go i ng t o be ne c e s s a r y t o ha v e a 24

b r i e f i ng c y c l e due t o t he numbe r and comp l e x i t y o f t he 25

509

i s sue s , and my p r e f e r enc e wou l d be t o ha v e c l os i ng 1

a r gumen t s i n t he f o r m o f b r i e f s . M r . Ro l and c an s t a t e 2

h i s v i ew on t ha t . 3

MR . ROLAND : I ag r e e t ha t , t ha t we cou l d hand l e 4

c l os i ng a r gumen t s i n t he f o r m o f b r i e f s . My p r e f e r enc e 5

wou l d be t ha t t he r e be a f i nd i ng o f f a c t be f o r e we 6

b r i e f be c aus e t he f a c t s a s de t e r m i ned by t he Cou r t ma y 7

i mpa c t t he l ega l a r gumen t s t o be made . We ha v e no t 8

d i s cus s ed t ha t y e t , bu t t ha t wou l d be my p r e f e r enc e . 9

MR . FROWNFELTER : I ha v e no t he a r d o f a s epa r a t e 10

f i nd i ng o f f a c t s i n a C i r cu i t Cou r t c a s e . The r e ' s a 11

l o t t ha t ' s dynam i c be c aus e we don ' t know wha t t he 12

Cou r t ' s f i nd i ngs o f f a c t s w i l l be . I wou l d p r e f e r t ha t 13

we ha v e j us t ha v e a s i ng l e b r i e f i ng c y c l e .14

THE COURT : Tha t ' s wha t I am go i ng t o o r de r ; we ' r e 15

no t go i ng t o do t he f i nd i ngs o f f a c t be f o r e t he 16

b r i e f i ng c y c l e be c aus e I wou l d hope t ha t ma ybe some o f 17

t he t r i a l b r i e f m i gh t t ouch upon some o f t hos e t h i ngs 18

t ha t we r e - - I me an , I t a k e p r e t t y good no t e s bu t i t 19

doe sn ' t hu r t t o r em i nd me a l i t t l e b i t abou t wha t you 20

cons i de r s i gn i f i c an t , and t ha t wou l d be he l p f u l t o me . 21

And f o r t ha t r e a son I t h i nk wha t I w i l l do i s o r de r 22

a b r i e f i ng c y c l e ba s ed on - - how much t i me do you t h i nk 23

you w i l l ne ed , M r . F r own f e l t e r ? Do you w i sh t o do 24

t he s e - - I c an - - we c an d i s cus s wha t you w i sh . I 25

510

me an , I c an o r de r ba c k and f o r t h o r I c an o r de r b r i e f s 1

due i n 30 da y s and t hen , o r 15 da y s , and t hen 10 da y s 2

a f t e r t ha t r e spons e t o e a ch o t he r . I w i l l - - ha v e you 3

had an oppo r t un i t y t o d i s cus s t ha t ? I f you ha v en ' t 4

I ' l l come up w i t h my own i de a s . 5

MR . FROWNFELTER : My p r e f e r enc e wou l d be p r obab l y 6

f o r t r i a l b r i e f s o f bo t h t o be due , s a y , i n 20 da y s , 7

and t hen pe r haps t en da y s f o r r ep l y b r i e f , aga i n , 8

s i mu l t aneous . 9

THE COURT : How abou t you , M r . Ro l and? 10

MR . ROLAND : My p r e f e r enc e wou l d be ba c k and f o r t h .11

MR . FROWNFELTER : A l a r ge pa r t o f my p r ob l em i s , 12

I ' m no t en t i r e l y su r e how M r . Ro l and i n t ends t o a r gue 13

t he f a c t s a s t he y suppo r t t he v i o l a t i ons he ha s 14

a l l eged . Wha t we ha v e t he bu r den o f p r oo f , we wou l d go 15

f i r s t i n a ba c k and f o r t h chy l e , bu t I wou l d be 16

e s s en t i a l l y w r i t i ng my b r i e f w i t hou t r e a l l y know i ng 17

e x a c t l y how he i n t ends t o me e t h i s cons t i t u t i ona l , and 18

suppo r t h i s cons t i t u t i ona l a r gumen t s , bu t i t ' s - - I 19

t h i nk i t ' s up t o t he Cou r t wh i ch wa y you ' d p r e f e r t o do 20

i t . 21

I f t he r e i s a ba c k and f o r t h , I wou l d wan t my r ep l y 22

b r i e f , I wou l d ne ed i t a t l e a s t 10 da y s o r so be c aus e 23

t ha t wou l d r e a l l y be t he f i r s t comp r ehens i v e l ook I had 24

a t how M r . Ro l and wa s app l y i ng t he f a c t s t o h i s app l i ed 25

511

cha l l enge , a t h i s cons t i t u t i ona l cha l l enge a s app l i ed 1

r a t he r t han on i t s f a c e . 2

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . Hang on a s e cond . 3

M r . Ro l and , any t h i ng e l s e? 4

MR . ROLAND : I wou l d ha v e no ob j e c t i on t o g r an t i ng 5

a l i t t l e b i t mo r e t i me f o r r ep l y g r i e f . I wou l d a l so 6

po i n t ou t t ha t we d i d f l e sh ou t ou r cons t i t u t i ona l 7

a r gumen t s f a i r l y t ho r ough l y i n t he r e spons e t o t he i r 8

mo t i on t o d i sm i s s on - - 9

THE COURT : On t he p l e ad i ngs? 10

MR . ROLAND : Ye ah , pa r t i a l mo t i on t o d i sm i s s on t he 11

p l e ad i ngs . So I ' m no t a v e r s e t o g i v i ng a l i t t l e b i t 12

mo r e t i me i f t ha t wou l d a l l ow us t o ha v e a ba c k and 13

f o r t h a s oppos ed t o concu r r en t . 14

THE COURT : Hang on j us t a s e cond . 15

M r . F r own f e l t e r , c an you g i v e me you r b r i e f , you r 16

i n i t i a l b r i e f w i t h i n 15 da y s? 17

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ye s , You r Hono r . 18

THE COURT : Wha t ' s t he sho r t e s t pe r i od you c an 19

r e a l i s t i c a l l y do?20

MR . FROWNFELTER : Pa r don me? 21

THE COURT : Wha t ' s h i s sho r t e s t pe r i od you wou l d be 22

r e a l i s t i c a l l y com f o r t ab l e do i ng i t ? 23

MR . FROWNFELTER : I c an do 15 da y s . 24

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . M r . Ro l and , how much t i me 25

512

w i l l you ne ed a f t e r t ha t t o do you r r ep l y b r i e f ? And 1

wha t I ' m go i ng t o a s k you t o do , by t he wa y , j us t so 2

you ' l l know i s , S t a t e p r ov i de p r opos ed j udgmen t en t r y 3

and t r i a l b r i e f w i t h i n 15 da y s . De f endan t t o p r ov i de 4

p r opos ed j udgmen t and r ep l y b r i e f w i t h i n - - how many 5

da y s M r . Ro l and a f t e r t ha t ? 6

MR . ROLAND : I be l i e v e 15 da y s . 7

THE COURT : 15 da y s a f t e r f i l i ng o f pe t i t i one r 8

b r i e f . How much t i me w i l l you ne ed a f t e r t ha t t o do 9

you r , I gue s s i t wou l d be you r , you r b r i e f a f t e r t ha t , 10

you r r ep l y?11

MR . FROWNFELTER : Ten da y s wou l d be su f f i c i en t . 12

THE COURT : Any t h i ng e l s e? 13

MR . FROWNFELTER : By my c a l cu l a t i on ou r b r i e f wou l d 14

be due Oc t obe r 12 t h ; M r . Ro l and ' s on t he 27 t h ; and my 15

r ep l y b r i e f wou l d be due , we l l t en da y s wou l d f a l l on 16

t he we e k end , t ha t wou l d be Nov embe r 7 t h . 17

THE COURT : I t h i nk I wou l d r a t he r do i t t ha t wa y 18

so we don ' t ha v e any gue s s i ng abou t when , when t hos e 19

t h i ngs ha v e t o be i n . We ' d be gue s s i ng abou t f i l i ng 20

and t ha t so r t o f t h i ng , so I ' l l ha v e pe t i t i one r , s t a t e , 21

p r ov i de p r opos ed j udgmen t en t r y and t r i a l b r i e f - - wha t 22

da t e d i d you s a y t ha t wa s , M r . F r own f e l t e r ? 23

MR . FROWNFELTER : Oc t obe r 12 t h . 24

THE COURT : De f endan t t o p r ov i de p r opos ed j udgmen t 25

513

and b r i e f , answe r b r i e f by , wha t d i d you s a y t he ne x t 1

da t e wa s? 2

MR . FROWNFELTER : 27 t h . 3

THE COURT : Thank you . Pe t i t i one r p r ov i de r ep l y 4

b r i e f by , wha t wa s t ha t ne x t da t e? 5

MR . FROWNFELTER : Nov embe r 7 t h . 6

THE COURT : A l l r i gh t . So pa r t i e s wa i v e c l os i ng 7

a r gumen t s i n f a vo r o f t r i a l b r i e f i ng . Pe t i t i one r , 8

s t a t e t o p r ov i de p r opos ed j udgemen t and t r i a l b r i e f by 9

Oc t obe r 12 t h . The de f endan t t o p r ov i de p r opos ed 10

j udgmen t and b r i e f by Oc t obe r 27 , 2011 . Pe t i t i one r t o 11

f i l e r ep l y b r i e f by Nov embe r 7 , 2011 . Any t h i ng e l s e? 12

MR . FROWNFELTER : Tha t ' s i t . 13

MR . ROLAND : I don ' t be l i e v e so , You r Hono r . 14

MR . FROWNFELTER : Thank you . 15

THE COURT : I wan t t o t e l l you a l l , I wa s i mp r e s s ed 16

w i t h t he wo r k you d i d he r e t oda y . Thank you .17

( T r i a l conc l uded a t 4 : 21 p . m on Sep t embe r 27 t h , 2011 . )18

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REPORTER 'S CERTIFICATE

I, Sandra S. Sondag , Certified Court Reporter ,

certify that I am the Official Court Reporter for

Division 1 of the 43rd Circuit Court ; that on September

26 th and 27 th , 2011 , I was present and reported all of

the proceedings in the case of Missouri Veterinary

Medical Board versus Brooke R. Gray , et al , Case No .

10 CN -CV 00842 .

I further certify that the foregoing 515 pages

contain a true and accurate reproduction of the

proceedings transcribed .

In compliance with Supreme Court Rule 84 .18 , I

further certify the cost of preparing this transcript

as follows :

Pages @ $2.60 per page . . . . . .$

SANDRA S. SONDAG , CCR #907 (G)

Transcript Completed : ___________________

MVMB v. Gray - Trial Transcript

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Transcript of MVMB v. Gray - Trial Transcript