Magster of Watchgeeks on the Invicta Lies

Magster of Watchgeeks thread on Invicta lies

Today, 09:44 AM

jskelton WatchGeeks Owner

True WatchGeek

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 14,910

Real Name: "Diamond Jim" Skelton

Magie, I'm sorry you feel cheated. While I know a lot of folks right now have similar

feelings... you and I have always had a nice, personal relationship, so of course it bothers

me to see that you're upset.

I can't speak for Eyal or Invicta on this one, but I can for myself, and what I'm going to say,

I know that you already know... but I'll say it for everyone else's benefit.

The issue at hand can only have been known 2 ways:

1) Info from the manufacturer

2) Opening the watches before presenting them to validate

Obviously, I do not crack open watches before the show, that's not my job. My job is to take

the info provided by the manufacturer and present it. If at any time I have ever caught any

discrepancy on ANY watch on ANY brand... I have made the corrections myself, and asked

those in charge at Shop to followup with corrections. This can be anything from the wrong

case size, to incorrect movement info, or crystal info. Things I can verify personally. I have

always done this, and will continue to do so. But unless I open 20, 30 watches pre-show... I

cannot know what's engraved on a movement inside, and if that conflicts with any dial

markings.

It is my personal belief that Eyal ordered one thing, and got another from his factory, I don't

believe he went out on TV and said anything untruthful with any knowledge that it was.

For me personally, I am falling back on something very simple... if it says "SWISS MADE" on

the dial, I will call Swiss into the conversation. Otherwise... no.

Folks also have to open up their scope here a bit. ALL Swiss movement manufacturers have

facilities in Hong Kong. ETA did until 2 years ago, t

all of them have a Swiss facility and a Chinese facility. Does anyone here believe that this is

simply to satisfy Invicta's demand??? NO, this is for the entire industry. From each you can

select Swiss or Swiss Parts in their catalogs. ALL who choose the Swiss parts mark their dials

"Swiss Movement", or "Swiss", or Swiss MVT". ALL of them.

Invicta continues to be the ONLY company that offers some degree of transparency on the

issues by marking case backs on MANY (no

movement being of Swiss Parts. NO other brand does this.

Back to the issue... does it make any of this right? No, and I understand the frustration and

anger many people are feeling right now. Have I said S

Absolutely, because that's what we were told, pure & simple.

When the car salesman tells you that your new car has a sunroof and it doesn't... well, that's

an obvious catch, and we all can see that. But when he tells you th

then you buy it & dyno it and it only has 400... he cannot possibly know that because the

spec sheet he got from the manufacturer told him 500. He isn't going to open up the motor

and actually look inside to see if you have hollow

factory said it does... he takes the data, and passes it along to the consumer.

The issue is being directly addressed at all levels within Invicta and ShopNBC and while I'm

not at liberty to disclose the details of

measures are being put into effect that will prevent any possible confusion in the future.

__________________

Originally Posted by charleswatts

Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you have formed with

your viewers.

facilities in Hong Kong. ETA did until 2 years ago, they just shut theirs down. ISA, Ronda...



s in their catalogs. ALL who choose the Swiss parts mark their dials

"Swiss Movement", or "Swiss", or Swiss MVT". ALL of them.


issues by marking case backs on MANY (not all, but MANY) models with some notation of the

movement being of Swiss Parts. NO other brand does this.


anger many people are feeling right now. Have I said Swiss Made on these very items?



an obvious catch, and we all can see that. But when he tells you that your car has 500hp and



and actually look inside to see if you have hollow valve-stems filled with sodium like the



not at liberty to disclose the details of the actions at this time, I can assure you that


Quote:

charleswatts


hey just shut theirs down. ISA, Ronda...



s in their catalogs. ALL who choose the Swiss parts mark their dials


t all, but MANY) models with some notation of the


wiss Made on these very items?


at your car has 500hp and



stems filled with sodium like the



the actions at this time, I can assure you that



jskelton

View Public Profile

Send a private message to jskelton

Visit jskelton's homepage!

Find all posts by jskelton

Add jskelton to Your Contacts

#192

Today, 09:51 AM

reliefcpSenior Member

Master WatchGeek

Thank you Jim!

__________________

reliefcp

View Public Profile

Send a private message to reliefcp

Find all posts by reliefcp

Add reliefcp to Your Contacts

reliefcp Senior Member

Master WatchGeek

Join Date: May 2009

Location: Everett Wa.

Posts: 2,872 Real Name: C.J.

#193

Today, 09:52 AM

Panda03BearSenior Member

True WatchGeek

thanks jim, good to hear a little explaination.

__________________

Panda03Bear

View Public Profile

Send a private message to Panda03Bear

Send email to Panda03Bear

Find all posts by Panda03Bear

Add Panda03Bear to Your Contacts

#194

Today, 09:55 AM

camarillo3561Senior Member

Senior Geek

As always Jim, the voice of reason. Thanks for taking the time.

__________________

Panda03Bear Senior Member

True WatchGeek

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: Silver Spring, MD.

Posts: 7,946

Real Name: Adam

thanks jim, good to hear a little explaination.

- Family, that's what's up -

camarillo3561 Senior Member

Senior Geek

Join Date: Feb 2010Location: Morgan Hill, CA

Posts: 137

Real Name: Christian

As always Jim, the voice of reason. Thanks for taking the time.

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: Silver Spring, MD.

Posts: 7,946

Real Name: Adam

- Black Eye Dye

Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Morgan Hill, CA

Posts: 137

Real Name: Christian

CC #228/500

camarillo3561

View Public Profile

Send a private message to camarillo3561

Find all posts by camarillo3561

Add camarillo3561 to Your Contacts

#195

Today, 10:03 AM

WatchYaThink Senior Member

Master WatchGeek

Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sunnyvale, CA

Posts: 2,934

Real Name: Larry

Thanks Jim for taking the time to participate in this thread. Although, as you said, it's not

really anything new, but it is a good summary of situation.

I did find this comment to be something new though:

"It is my personal belief that Eyal ordered one thing, and got another from his factory"

I find it a bit of a stretch to think that Eyal as the CEO does not know every detail of what his

factory is delivering to him? Are you saying then that there have been instances when Eyal

may have ordered his factory to produce a watch to a certain spec; and then he received

delivery of those watches, and went on air and presented them without knowing that they

had in fact not be produced to the spec that he ordered and he did not know that?

__________________ "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace" - Jimi Hendrix

WatchYaThink

View Public Profile

Send a private message to WatchYaThink

Send email to WatchYaThink

Find all posts by WatchYaThink

Add WatchYaThink to Your Contacts

#196

Today, 10:03 AM

mrblue Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Apr 2009

Posts: 1,686

Bravo Jim ... beautifully told and it's the TRUTH .... Eyal orders it right and the factory can

make an error and send it to Invicta wrongly !!!!! ... BUT EYAL IS A CLASS ACT AS ARE YOU,

AS IS MICHAEL AND I AM PROUD TO HAVE STOOD BY YOU GUYS IN THIS

DEBATE ........................... MR BLUE .... I CAN'T WAIT TO READ THE DOUBTER'S REVIEWS

AGAIN AND AGAIN EVEN THOUGH YOU'VE TOLD 'THE TRUTH' TO ALL TODAY ..

MB

mrblue

View Public Profile

Send a private message to mrblue

Find all posts by mrblue

Add mrblue to Your Contacts

#197

Today, 10:11 AM

watchnut62 Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Long Island, NY

Posts: 1,601

Real Name: Steve

Thanks for the clarification Jim . I dont believe the anger is because of the movement as

much as it is being told something that is not true. Should I go thru all my Invicta's and

make sure they are what they say they are. I cant tell if my watch movements are made in

Viet nam or china or korea. I rely on the manufacturer to tell me the truth as to where the

thing is made. If the company doesnt know where the movement is made they shouldnt put

anything on the case. I do feel you are in a very tough spot. You have given us information

about issues that was related to you by Eyal. Eyal has not himself posted anything and it

gives him an out to say Jim may have misunderstood my reply. I trust you explicitly and

would never doubt your word.

__________________

So many watches, so little time (and money).

watchnut62

View Public Profile

Send a private message to watchnut62

Find all posts by watchnut62

Add watchnut62 to Your Contacts

#198

Today, 10:15 AM

LTCARMY Senior Member

Senior Geek

Join Date: May 2008 Location: Northern New Jersey

Posts: 191

Real Name: Paul

This good news Jim. Helps everone buy with confidence.

Thanks Again!

LTCARMY

View Public Profile

Send a private message to LTCARMY

Find all posts by LTCARMY

Add LTCARMY to Your Contacts

#199

Today, 10:36 AM

DiverFan Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Apr 2008

Location: Rockland Cty, New York

Posts: 1,633

Real Name: Gerald(Jerry)

Magie, the most important thing right now is that you make a full recovery! All else pales

before this.

I agree with your post completely and had hoped that Eyal would have addressed this in his

post. It would have been so simple just to say "mea Culpa and I'm sorry for any

misunderstanding our dial labeling caused". No mention of lying etc. needed to be said. Just

take some ownership and get on with it. I have had so much respect for Eyal that it really

hurts to read these concerns. Hopefully things will calm down.

It was great for Jim to respond. I am sure that he, Michael and Jill were compleely honest in

their presentations.

You just take care of yourself and keep posting your great threads! Jerry

__________________

Love is a Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier named Bailey!

Jerry

DiverFan

View Public Profile

Send a private message to DiverFan

Find all posts by DiverFan

Add DiverFan to Your Contacts

#200

Today, 10:41 AM

X-James Member

Member Geek

Join Date: May 2010

Posts: 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by WatchYaThink





I find it a bit of a stretch to think that Eyal as the CEO does not know every detail of what

his factory is delivering to him? Are you saying then that there have been instances when

Eyal may have ordered his factory to produce a watch to a certain spec; and then he

received delivery of those watches, and went on air and presented them without knowing

that they had in fact not be produced to the spec that he ordered and he did not know

that?

I thought and I might be wrong in thinking this that Eyal has portrayed that his are being

produced in HIS factories by HIS people or is that just supposedly with the Reserve line?

Seriously though I do find it hard to believe that as a CEO of a company that Eyal never

knew this happened to him not just once but numerous times. Heck even InvictaShark and a

few of the other daily deal sites had been listing the same watches as Swiss Movement and

Swiss Parts Movements with the same model numbers as ShopNBC had while ShopNBC were

portraying them as Swiss Made.

Something else to ponder over is do you honestly think that a movement made with some

Swiss parts in China can be sent to Switzerland and be cased cheaper than and entirely

Swiss made movement watch? Remember some of the parts has to be shipped to China,

assembled and then shipped back to Switzerland or possibly just have it all cased in China

and save on the shipping and also have cheap Asian labor. It is something to think about.

Councilman Rock Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Jun 2009

Location: McAlester, OKPosts: 1,104

Real Name: Greg

First, well put Magster.

Second, to me it is plain and simple...if you work for a company and sell their product, then

your reputation is on the line. So you do everything that is in your power to be as accurate

or correct when selling said items.

My family owns a restaurant and I am a server there...I sell our products. If there is a

question about the food, I will check packaging, food ingredient lists, data safety sheets or I

will consult with the different food service company reps to fully know what it is that I am

selling. I do not simply tow the company (family) line. My reputation and livelihood is on the

line if I do not know what is going on.

So it really bothers me greatly when the excuse is given that the Technical Brand Manager

for a well-known, successful company only knows what is provided before he goes onto live

TV to sell that product.

To me, that makes no sense when little old me, working for a single small business can do a

little research and digging to find out what I am selling.

__________________

RED SOX NATION MEMBER SINCE 2008 RIDE 'EM OKLAHOMA STATE COWBOYS

Councilman Rock

View Public Profile

Send a private message to Councilman Rock

Send email to Councilman Rock

Find all posts by Councilman Rock

Add Councilman Rock to Your Contacts

#202

Today, 10:54 AM

gadgetfreak Member

Member Geek

Join Date: Aug 2009

Posts: 57

Of course it's not Eyal's fault at all that 100% Chinese watches were labeled Swiss

corresponding with the law that would let them get away with it. Of course it was not

Business tactics, just a simple ordering mistake

Ya I believe ya

gadgetfreak

View Public Profile

Send a private message to gadgetfreak

Find all posts by gadgetfreak

Add gadgetfreak to Your Contacts

#203

Today, 10:56 AM

JDinNOLA Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: New Orleans, LA

Posts: 2,073

Real Name: John

Riddle me this, Mr. Blue......

IF all Invicta watches marked "Swiss Made" are in fact swiss made watches under the

guidelines of the Swiss Federation.......and

IF all Invicta watches marked "Swiss" turn out to not be swiss made watches under the

guidelines of the Swiss Federation.......and

Invicta has repeatedly stated that both designations "Swiss Made" and "Swiss" mean the

same thing, that they are swiss made under the guidelines of the Swiss Federation......

How can this be blamed on miscommunication with the factory???

There certainly arent any SWISS MADE watches that aren't clearly marked SWISS MADE!

None of the "SWISS" watches have turned out to be SWISS MADE. The labeling seems to me

to be correct. It is the explanation from Invicta as to what the labeling means that is

FALSE.....

Just as a reminder, here it is again from the Technical Brand Manager of Invicta just 3

Weeks ago.......

meijin

WatchGeeks Owner

True WatchGeek Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: Atlanta, GA

Posts: 11,417

Real Name: Michael

When Invicta puts Swiss Made on the dial, it means that the guidelines set forth by the Swiss

Federation have been used in the production of the watch.

When Invicta puts Swiss only on the dial, it means that the guidelines set forth by the Swiss

Federation have been used in the production of the watch.

When Invicta uses the phrase Swiss Movt, it indicates that the movement in the watch is a

Swiss Made movement, but the production of the watch does not follow all of the guidelines

set forth by the Swiss Federation.

When Invicta uses the phrase Swiss Parts Movement, it means that a movement (usually

from companies like Ronda, ISA, etc.) containing Swiss parts have been used and is

generally been produced/assembled in a non-Swiss country.

This has been discussed numerous times here and also on the shows that have aired for the

last several years.

So, for Invicta, when we use Swiss or Swiss Made, it means the same thing. That being, that

the watch was produced using the guidelines set forth by the Swiss Federation.

__________________

Michael

Edit..... I do not mean to suggest that Michael Davis was lying to us when he repeated this

information on TV and on the forums. I believe that this is what he was told. I do believe,

however, that the only miscommunication on this issue came from Eyal and was logically

NOT the result of any miscommunication with a foreign factory that certainly completed its

fabricating and assembly as per EYAL's specs.

My only criticism of Michael has been his berating of members here who, using logic,

understood that Eyal's explanation made no sense. Remember that to question this was to

be a member of the Black Helicopter conspiracy mob.

Magie's original post asks that Eyal come clean about this. I hope he will as well.

__________________

Last edited by JDinNOLA; Today at 11:08 AM. Reason: To add disclaimer at bottom

JDinNOLA

View Public Profile

Send a private message to JDinNOLA

Find all posts by JDinNOLA

Add JDinNOLA to Your Contacts

#204

Today, 11:09 AM


True WatchGeek

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 14,910


Quote:

Originally Posted by WatchYaThink





I find it a bit of a stretch to think that Eyal as the CEO does not know every detail of what

his factory is delivering to him? Are you saying then that there have been instances when

Eyal may have ordered his factory to produce a watch to a certain spec; and then he

received delivery of those watches, and went on air and presented them without knowing

that they had in fact not be produced to the spec that he ordered and he did not know

that?

Don't read so deeply into it, if you do, you'll just end up twisting my words around.

I said that "I PERSONALLY BELIEVE...."

I have no idea how or why it happened. I am simply offering up what MIGHT be a POSSIBLE

situation.

No, CEO's do NOT open up every single item they manufacture and inspect them... that's not

their job. Just like the CEO does not design all the products, source all the components, or

assign all the company parking spots.. they have teams and managers in different

departments for this stuff. Yes, he is the final say in what is made, but once the order is

given, who's to say a mistake cannot be made?? I'm sure the CEO of Firestone didn't order

tires to be made that would BLOW OUT if you drove on them... but that's precisely what they

got a couple years back. Two entirely different scenarios of course, but the point is that the

CEO does not have hands-on in every possible part of their business, it is just not possible.

So don't take what I stated as a personal opinion as "the explanation" as to what

happened.

Thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by gadgetfreak

Of course it's not Eyal's fault at all that 100% Chinese watches were labele



Ya I believe ya

Yup, that was helpful. Thanks for taking the time...

__________________


Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you ha

your viewers.

jskelton

View Public Profile





gadgetfreak

Of course it's not Eyal's fault at all that 100% Chinese watches were labeled Swiss



Yup, that was helpful. Thanks for taking the time...

Quote:

charleswatts


d Swiss


ve formed with

#205

Today, 11:10 AM

X-James Member

Member Geek

Join Date: May 2010

Posts: 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDinNOLA

meijin

So, for Invicta, when we use Swiss or Swiss Made, it means the same thing. That being,

that the watch was produced using the guidelines set forth by the Swiss Federation.

__________________

Michael

That is what he may have been told but that is not what has been proven to actually now be

the truth.

Unless Michael actually removed case backs to verify what he had been told was the truth

why would he have any need to question what he was told as the truth when in reality it was

just a gray area. As Eyal Lalo's said via Jim Skelton it is all a gray area that all manufactures

partake in doing to help promote the sales of there watches by using the term Swiss to make

people think it is something it might not be ... or something to that affect.

X-James

View Public Profile

Send a private message to X-James

Find all posts by X-James

Add X-James to Your Contacts

#206

Today, 11:12 AM


True WatchGeek

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 14,910


Cleaning up the thread a bit. Thanks of course to mr blue, but the bickering between

members on a few points made based on member's opinions... isn't helping and is getting

off-topic, so I'll be closing off those replies to make this easier to wade through.

Please take arguments to PM.

Thanks.

__________________


Your candor in the explanation reveals the nature of the relationship you ha

your viewers.

jskelton

View Public Profile





#207

Today, 11:16 AM

Quote:

charleswatts


ve formed with

dmullins8 Member

Member Geek

Join Date: Aug 2009Location: Ohio

Posts: 72

Real Name: Don

Great Post, This reason along with the horrible customer service has me buying other

brands.

dmullins8

View Public Profile

Send a private message to dmullins8

Send email to dmullins8

Find all posts by dmullins8

Add dmullins8 to Your Contacts

#208

Today, 11:18 AM

mrblue Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Apr 2009

Posts: 1,686

Please do Jim .. Tks .. MB

mrblue

View Public Profile




#209

Today, 11:27 AM

sandman20 Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: May 2008

Posts: 1,070

Well written post by the OP. This now seems to be going in many different directions with all

types of theory's. I feel the bottom line is quite simple, for the last couple of years we have

been told by Invicta, SNBC, JS and recently Michael that "SWISS = SWISS MADE". Eyal has

admitted that this is not true in his own words:

"Then we get into the way we use the word “SWISS”. The the word “Swiss” was used on

watches as a description for a watch using a movement with Swiss part Origins. This includes

movements that are bought from SWISS COMPANIES, with SWISS ENGENEERING, that are

tested in Switzerland, but has components that are sent off to the Far East for cost purposes

to be assembled. Examples of these are ETA, Ronda, ISA, “Far East versions”. They were

developed to assist in delivering the consumer more value, on an otherwise identical item.

Today, the word Swiss is used on watches that are very inexpensive, because the brand

used a Swiss Movement Far East assembly version. Yes as companies we do call more

attention to this than the fact that the movement is assembled in China, but that’s

marketing."

So what other conclusion can there be that we were purposely misled by Invicta? I don't

think Michael or JS knew, but of course Eyal did as he admits it above by his explanation. If

this doesn't matter to you that’s fine, everyone must make their own decisions. For me, after

this and the DD issue, I will not be purchasing another Invicta anytime soon.

sandman20

View Public Profile

Send a private message to sandman20

Find all posts by sandman20

Add sandman20 to Your Contacts

#210

Today, 12:21 PM

Gregg Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Jun 2008

Location: Vallejo, Calif. Posts: 2,144

Real Name: Gregg (New Geek)

I just finished reading all the posts, and wish Maggie a speedy recovery, getting well, etc.

I think you posted a necessary and appropriate statement concerning your questions about

the Invicta issue as it affects you. This took some doing on your part, and not easily initiated

either as you said.

I'm down to one Invicta which I still own/wear my Anatomic RD, which is a very cool watch

for me, so in the big picture here it does really concern me that many WG's are upset to say

the least. I do truly hope you all can get some resolution here, but this depends on Eyal Lalo

actions/statements coming forward.

Gregg

View Public Profile

Send a private message to Gregg

Find all posts by Gregg

Add Gregg to Your Contacts

#211

Today, 12:25 PM

samuelrz Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: May 2009 Location: Orange County, CA

Posts: 1,347

Real Name: Sam

Hey Maggie,

I hope all is well with you and yours. I've always enjoyed reading your posts and consider

you a friend. I've had some time to digest everything that I've read over the last couple of

weeks and in hindsight you have stated the issue eloquently and as a matter of fact as

anyone of us could.

I agree with all your points and hope something positive will come from these recent fiascos.

Personally, I'm starting to wonder if the Kobe Beef I ordered from the Shop was just Angus

with a peppering of Kobe, lol. Take and keep up the great work.

Cheers!

__________________

SAM -

samuelrz

View Public Profile

Send a private message to samuelrz

Send email to samuelrz

Find all posts by samuelrz

Add samuelrz to Your Contacts

#212

Today, 12:54 PM

mrblue Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Apr 2009

Posts: 1,686

For myself, I hope to be enjoying and purchasing Invictas for many years to come ..

Thankyou Eyal for the great product and dedicted care which you have brought to the

industry in an effort, from the heart, to bring the consumer the best possible quality

and quality control at the best conceivable prices. Before Invicta and the shop, this

was not possible. And before this forum was gifted to us, it was never conceivable that geeks

would gift eachother such great timepieces at such extraordinary prices in such

a friendly and enjoyable way. Thanks to you all as well.

I hope Invicta deals with the issue of assuring us in the immediate future that what we

expect is what we get. They do need to work on this. I have confidence that they will.

Mr Blue

mrblue

View Public Profile




#213

Today, 12:57 PM

GeorgeTheWatchGuyWatchGeeks Moderator

True WatchGeek

As Jim has stated, from this point take all personal comments to our PM system...

Now lets get back on topic!

Thank you for your cooperation__________________

"There are Two Types of Pain in this World: The Temporary Pain of Discipline, or the

Permanent Pain of Regret"... GTWG

a friendly and enjoyable way. Thanks to you all as well.

deals with the issue of assuring us in the immediate future that what we


GeorgeTheWatchGuy WatchGeeks Moderator

True WatchGeek

As Jim has stated, from this point take all personal comments to our PM


Thank you for your cooperation


Permanent Pain of Regret"... GTWG

deals with the issue of assuring us in the immediate future that what we


Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: OHIO Posts: 8,158

As Jim has stated, from this point take all personal comments to our PM


GeorgeTheWatchGuy

View Public Profile

Send a private message to GeorgeTheWatchGuy

Find all posts by GeorgeTheWatchGuy

Add GeorgeTheWatchGuy to Your Contacts

#214

Today, 01:06 PM

sunaru Senior Member Senior Geek

Join Date: Jan 2010

Location: THA BRONX

Posts: 292

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeTheWatchGuy

As Jim has stated, from this point take all personal comments to our PM system...


Thank you for your cooperation

When i got to the last line all i could here in my head was this guy

lol

sunaru

View Public Profile

Send a private message to sunaru

Find all posts by sunaru

Add sunaru to Your Contacts

#215

Today, 01:20 PM

sunaru Senior Member

Senior Geek

Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: THA BRONX

Posts: 292

guess the reserve line is longer just for swiss hand made time pieces....

http://www.shopnbc.com/Invicta_Reser...83&catprop=483

sunaru

View Public Profile

Send a private message to sunaru

Find all posts by sunaru

Add sunaru to Your Contacts

#216

Today, 01:34 PM

ao Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Honolulu, Hawaii

Posts: 2,075

Thankyou Magie for starting this thread with your heartfelt post, and thankyou Jim for you

thoughtful response. I hope you both get well soon and thankyou again for your

contributions, in your own ways, to WatchGeeks.

ao

View Public Profile

Send a private message to ao

Send email to ao

Find all posts by ao

Add ao to Your Contacts

#217

Today, 02:03 PM

toyaddict007Senior Member

Super Geek

Another well thought out Mags post!

*Mags---get well! GR8 post

Quote:

Originally Posted by richhoff

I was curious about how many Invictas I have that said "Swiss" rather than "Swiss Made".

I have 80 Invictas. I have 5 that have just "Swiss" on the dial, 3 Russian Divers and 2

Lupah Grands.

**I actually don't own an Invicta with just "Swiss" on the dial...so I don't have a

dog in this hunt...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Councilman Rock

First, well put Magster.

Second, to me it is plain and simple...if you work for a company and sell their product

then your reputation is on the line. So you do everything that is in your power to be as

accurate or correct when selling said items.


question about the food, I will check packaging, food ingredient lists, data safety sheets or

I will consult with the different food service company reps to fully know what it is that I am

selling. I do not simply tow the company (family) line. My reputation and livelihood is on

the line if I do not know what is going on.


for a well-known, successful company only knows what is provided before he goes onto live

TV to sell that product.

To me, that makes no sense when little old me, working for a single small business can do

a little research and digging to find out what I am selling.

***Unless your menu has as many different entres as Invicta has different watch

styles, I don't think this example wo

****Thank you Jim, for your posts here.

Bruce

__________________

A nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse...

toyaddict007

Join Date: Mar 2008Location: 'Da Region

Posts: 1,447

get well! GR8 post---THANX!




Councilman Rock

Second, to me it is plain and simple...if you work for a company and sell their product


accurate or correct when selling said items.


check packaging, food ingredient lists, data safety sheets or



e if I do not know what is going on.


known, successful company only knows what is provided before he goes onto live

kes no sense when little old me, working for a single small business can do

a little research and digging to find out what I am selling.


styles, I don't think this example works...


A nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse...

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: 'Da Region-NW Indiana

Posts: 1,447




Second, to me it is plain and simple...if you work for a company and sell their product,



check packaging, food ingredient lists, data safety sheets or




known, successful company only knows what is provided before he goes onto live

kes no sense when little old me, working for a single small business can do


This is how I roll...in my own mind...

toyaddict007

View Public Profile

Send a private message to toyaddict007

Send email to toyaddict007

Find all posts by toyaddict007

Add toyaddict007 to Your Contacts

#218

Today, 02:09 PM

Russell3 Senior Member

Senior Geek

Join Date: Dec 2009

Location: East Fallowfield PA

Posts: 360

Real Name: Russell

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewInvictaGuy

It kind of is on topic...Maggie's OP touched on Eyal coming out with an apology and a

statement on the issues.

Part of that discussion has to go to if he even cares what members here think...IMO

because the number of watches purshased by members here is so small he does not

Thank you I Agree!

Russell3

View Public Profile

Send a private message to Russell3

Find all posts by Russell3

Add Russell3 to Your Contacts

#219

Today, 02:13 PM

BadMax Senior Member

Veteran Geek

Join Date: Oct 2009

Location: Charlotte NC

Posts: 825

Real Name: Michael

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunaru

guess the reserve line is longer just for swiss hand made time pieces....

http://www.shopnbc.com/Invicta_Reser...83&catprop=483

Hey, just remember that only 10% of Invicta watchsmiths/makers get to put there hands on

these Reserves, BOOOYA

BadMax

View Public Profile

Send a private message to BadMax

Find all posts by BadMax

Add BadMax to Your Contacts

#220

Today, 02:25 PM

chasntime Senior Member

Senior Geek

Join Date: Feb 2010

Location: North Carolina

Posts: 307

Real Name: George

Jim,

Good analogy with the car, and yes I am a tad frustrated but being in manufacturing, I

understand. I can't say I like it, but I understand. And while I understand Eyal can not

monitor every detail, as the CEO he buys that responsibility! Nuff said, end of story! Does

your yellow monster only have 400 HP???? Man take it back! LOL

Good luck with your recovery and the new wheels.

When the car salesman tells you that your new car has a sunroof and it doesn't...

well, that's an obvious catch, and we all can see that. But when he tells you that

your car has 500hp and then you buy it & dyno it and it only has 400... he cannot

possibly know that because the spec sheet he got from the manufacturer told him

500. He isn't going to open up the motor and actually look inside to see if you have

hollow valve-stems filled with sodium like the factory said it does... he takes the

data, and passes it along to the consumer.

chasntime

View Public Profile

Send a private message to chasntime

Send email to chasntime

Find all posts by chasntime

Add chasntime to Your Contacts

#221

Today, 03:33 PM

LadyCopper Senior Member

Master WatchGeek

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Olympia, Washington

Posts: 3,726

Yikes! What a thread! Magie - hope that you are feeling better and speedy recovery.

Verrrrrry nicely articulated post, and I wouldn't expect any less from you girl!

I totally agree that the real issue here is trust. I'm not sure that a well-worded

apology/explanation from Eyal would go very far at this point . . . the hay is already in the

barn (so to speak).

__________________

I can only hope to be the person my dog thinks I am . . .

LadyCopper

View Public Profile

Send a private message to LadyCopper

Send email to LadyCopper

Find all posts by LadyCopper

Add LadyCopper to Your Contacts

#222

Today, 03:47 PM

Councilman Rock Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Jun 2009

Location: McAlester, OK

Posts: 1,104

Real Name: Greg


styles, I don't think this example works...


Bruce[/quote]

I think that you miss my point entirely...maybe I wasn't clear either. By using my analogy, it

has nothing really to do with the variety of our menu....which actually there's a lot, but my

point speaks to the fact that if you put your rep on the line, you better do your homework

AND everyone elses as well. You can't just trust everyone when it's you butt on the

line...know ALL the facts, info, specifics, etc.

__________________

RED SOX NATION MEMBER SINCE 2008 RIDE 'EM OKLAHOMA STATE COWBOYS

Councilman Rock

View Public Profile

Send a private message to Councilman Rock

Send email to Councilman Rock

Find all posts by Councilman Rock

Add Councilman Rock to Your Contacts

#223

Today, 03:48 PM

capthook Senior Member

Super Geek

everybody grab your pitchforks and torches........where going to florida.......

capthook

View Public Profile

Send a private message to capthook

Send email to capthook

Find all posts by capthook

Add capthook to Your Contacts

#224

Today, 03:59 PM

LouCap Senior Member

Senior Geek

You know, if you're that displeased, your best weapon is your wallet. Use it (or don't) as you

see fit.

Personally, I haven't bought an Invicta in

though, because I can.

__________________

Time for Timer!

LouCap

View Public Profile

Send a private message to LouCap

Find all posts by LouCap



Personally, I haven't bought an Invicta in at least a year...I have bought other watches

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: new jersey

Posts: 1,106 Real Name: buzz


Join Date: Apr 2008

Posts: 289


at least a year...I have bought other watches

Add LouCap to Your Contacts

#225

Today, 04:00 PM

timeman Senior Member

Master WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by jskelton

It is my personal belief that Eyal ordered one thing, and got another from his factory, I

don't believe he went out on TV and said anything untruthful with any knowledge that it

was.

This might be the case. If it is why didn't Eyal catch on too? Didn't anyone

pick up on it? Weren't some of these watches sent back to Invicta for repair, and no one said

these "Swiss Made" watches have Swiss parts movements in them and were assembled in

China? IMO these are the possible scenarios.

1) Eyal had no knowledge they were selling watches they claimed to be "Swiss Made" that

weren't, and only became aware of it when it was brought to his attention by geeks from

this forum.

or

2) Knowing the watches were not Swiss made he put "Swiss" on the dials and repo

watches were Swiss made i.e. they complied with the Swiss Federation guidelines, and was

done only as a marketing strategy to increase sales.

I tend to believe the latter.

Edit. The following sentence is from Eyal's post regarding this "Swiss"

"Today, the word Swiss is used on watches that are very inexpensive, because the brand


attention to this than the fact that the movement is assembled

marketing".

__________________

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Long Island, New YorkPosts: 4,853

Real Name: Jerry

s my personal belief that Eyal ordered one thing, and got another from his factory, I


This might be the case. If it is why didn't Eyal catch on too? Didn't anyone in his company



China? IMO these are the possible scenarios.

nowledge they were selling watches they claimed to be "Swiss Made" that


2) Knowing the watches were not Swiss made he put "Swiss" on the dials and repo


done only as a marketing strategy to increase sales.

Edit. The following sentence is from Eyal's post regarding this "Swiss" = "Swiss Made" issue.



attention to this than the fact that the movement is assembled in China, but that’s

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Long Island, New YorkPosts: 4,853

Real Name: Jerry

s my personal belief that Eyal ordered one thing, and got another from his factory, I


in his company



nowledge they were selling watches they claimed to be "Swiss Made" that


2) Knowing the watches were not Swiss made he put "Swiss" on the dials and reported the


= "Swiss Made" issue.



in China, but that’s

Magster Senior Member

True WatchGeek

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Southern California

Posts: 9,339

After being away from this thread all night/morning, I must apologize to everyone, and

especially the staff here... Perhaps, I should have waited until I could devote more time

here, monitoring the thread. I am sorry for that and also for being a moron and

starting this thread on Father's Day! It should have waited and I hope this thread

did not negatively effect any father's special day...

Thank you to the mods, Brad (still a mod to me), and to Jim for keeping an eye on this and

for "cleaning it up" instead of shutting it down... thank you!!

Once again, there have been too many replies for me to address each of them. But, thank

you all for your participation here, even if you don't agree with me, I appreciate the

time you take to be here...

Jim... I'll address your response below...

[quote=Panda03Bear;1703234] the only excuse i can think of for eyal is the language

barrier, as he is well versed in many languages. other than that though, there really is no

excuse.

quote]

Since we just saw what a language barrier could do with the head of BP and the

"Small People" comment, I could understand this.

However, I don't believe this is the case. Since the watches were CHANGED to read

Swiss, when they used to state Swiss Made, that provides evidence that leads a

reasonable person to believe that the mistake was not in the language differences.

It supports that there was a KNOWN change and that information was simply not

accurately given to us...

I am amazed at anyone being able to speak 2 languages, let alone the multiple

ones that Eyal speaks. Just another reason I have had so much respect for the man.

And, another point that proves he is no dummy...

[quote=BabyDoc;1703311]Magster, I am not sure what you expect Eyal to say that he

hasn't said before.

He said that calling a Swiss designed, but Chineese made watch, "Swiss" is just "marketing",

and that this type of marketing is common within the industry.

quote]

His reply did not address why HE continued to tell us that the watches were Swiss

Made even though his response indicates that he knew the difference the whole

time.

So, that is what I'd like explained... from HIM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzalestwins

Magie, thankfully for me I only purchased those Invictas that I really wanted and had no

thought that these watches would ever increase in value or come remotely close to

maintaining their pricing/value.

Unless you want to void your warranty you don't open the watches.

Doug

You made some good points in your post but I edited it here to address only two

things...

I don't care, in the long run, if my watches increase or decrease in value.

If I have purchased a watch and liked it... Then, I see it for a low price and it is still

the Swiss Made watch I like, that could influence me to buy another and another.

So, for me personally, I have felt duped into buying additional Swiss Made watches

based on the low prices for such a high quality, Swiss MADE watch.

Perhaps I wouldn't have purchased a 2nd, 3rd, 6th,... watch if the deal itself wasn't

so great for such a "Swiss Made" piece... Pain meds are kicking in today so I don't

know if that makes much sense, but I'm tryin' here...

Interesting points about the warranty voided if you open the watch... but that's

another thread some day... Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jskelton

Magie, I'm sorry you feel cheated. While I know a lot of folks right now have similar

feelings... you and I have always had a nice, personal relationship, so of course it bothers

me to see that you're upset.

Thanks Jim...

I can't speak for Eyal or Invicta on this one, but I can for myself, and what I'm going to

say, I know that you already know... but I'll say it for everyone else's benefit.

Yes, my heart already knew this, but it is sure nice to see your response confirm it

for my head!

It is my personal belief that Eyal ordered one thing, and got another from his factory, I


was.

IF there was not an actual change to the wording on the dial, I might agree with

this...

To me, the fact that the wording on the dial went from Swiss Made to Swiss,

clearly shows Invicta knew they were changed for some reason, and, most

reasonably, for the reason Eyal posted in his response to that initial thread...


issues by marking case backs on MANY (not all, but MANY) models with some notation of

the movement being of Swiss Parts. NO other brand does this.

Unfortunately for me... this upfront honesty led me to believe, even stronger, that

Swiss meant Swiss Made. Why would they be extra honest here and lie there?!?!

Sort of suckered me in with this one...


anger many people are feeling right now. Have I said Swiss Made on these very items?


Very glad to see you type this!! Sorry for the hit that your rep has taken from this

too. That can't feel good for you and it can't feel good to be put in this situation

by the actions of someone you consider a friend. Not that I'm condeming Eyal yet,

but I've run out of explanations to clear him in all this...

When the car salesman tells you that your new car has a sunroof and it doesn't... well,

that's an obvious catch, and we all can see that. But when he tells you that your car has

500hp and then you buy it & dyno it and it only has 400... he cannot possibly know that

because the spec sheet he got from the manufacturer told him 500. He isn't going to open

up the motor and actually look inside to see if you have hollow valve-stems filled with

sodium like the factory said it does... he takes the data, and passes it along to the

consumer.

LOL... and it all comes back to a car analogy!! I talk about domestic violence

and you talk cars... gotta stick with what we know!!


not at liberty to disclose the details of the actions at this time, I can assure you that


Other than you confirming that you had no idea, this last section is the best news

this thread has received...

I hope for a response of some kind...

And, I deeply appreciate your postings here, Jim!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiverFan

had hoped that Eyal would have addressed this in his post. It would have been so simple

just to say "mea Culpa and I'm sorry for any misunderstanding our dial labeling caused".

No mention of lying etc. needed to be said. Just take some ownership and get on with it. I

have had so much respect for Eyal that it really hurts to read these concerns. Hopefully

things will calm down.

It was great for Jim to respond. I am sure that he, Michael and Jill were compleely honest

in their presentations.

Thanks Jerry... I agree with you!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDinNOLA

Invicta has repeatedly stated that both designations "Swiss Made" and "Swiss" mean the

same thing, that they are swiss made under the guidelines of the Swiss Federation......

How can this be blamed on miscommunication with the factory???

There certainly arent any SWISS MADE watches that aren't clearly marked SWISS MADE!

None of the "SWISS" watches have turned out to be SWISS MADE. The labeling seems to

me to be correct. It is the explanation from Invicta as to what the labeling means that is

FALSE.....

I do believe, however, that the only miscommunication on this issue came from Eyal and

was logically NOT the result of any miscommunication with a foreign factory that certainly

completed its fabricating and assembly as per EYAL's specs.

Magie's original post asks that Eyal come clean about this. I hope he will as well.

I chopped up your post quite a bit but wanted to say thanks for the very well

thought out response...

Magster

View Public Profile

Send a private message to Magster

Find all posts by Magster

Add Magster to Your Contacts

#227

Today, 04:09 PM


True WatchGeek


Posts: 9,339

Quote:

Originally Posted by capthook


this response doesn't help here, Buzz...

I put a disclaimer as the first sentence of the thread. Please read it again...

Magster

View Public Profile




#228

Today, 04:10 PM

watchluv Senior Member

Master WatchGeek

Join Date: Mar 2008

Posts: 2,541

Good thread Magie. The thing I have noticed from Eyal is that from day one before Jim was

on SNBC I watched Eyal Stretch the truth to the limits. I asked myself why can't he just tell

it like it is about the watches? What is so hard in telling the truth? Sales will still be the same

if not better telling the truth and winning trust in your customers. When someone stretches

the truth to sell a product it always makes me wonder what is being hidden. Once you lose

faith and trust it is so hard to get back. But on a personal note I really think Eyal can't help

himself and he feels that is the way to sell his product. I say take lessons from Wing CEO of

Android.

__________________

Time to Watch as Time Passes Away

watchluv

View Public Profile

Send a private message to watchluv

Find all posts by watchluv

Add watchluv to Your Contacts

#229

Today, 04:18 PM

buddah00 Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Jan 2010

Location: GA

Posts: 1,326

Real Name: Isaac

Very well written post Magster and I agree with you on a lot of it. I posted in

some of those older threads that some of the watches could have been made in Timbuktu and I wouldn't have cared as long as I knew where they came

from.

I know that whole situation put a bad taste in the mouths of a lot of people, myself included. I also feel that even though the issue was addressed it still

kind of left us hanging.

I understand the ambiguity of the labeling of watches and wanting to highlight the aspects of your product that most appeals to consumers but

stating that it is Swiss made when it isn't involves more than just playing with industry terms.

I have picked up several Invicta's since this came out 2 SANIV's and am

eyeing several others. Most of my Invicta's are Reserves or Swiss made. I do have a couple of Swiss ones and will probably purchase more but am more

price conscience when it comes to them since I have become informed.

The majority of my watches are Invicta's. I am thinking as I write this

response and I have added more Renato's, Androids etc. since all this came out. I don't think I did it intentionally either, maybe my subconscious was

guiding my purchases.

Thanks for taking the time to put your thoughts into an intelligent post.

. __________________

I want what every other man want's, I Just want it MORE!

buddah00

View Public Profile

Send a private message to buddah00

Find all posts by buddah00

Add buddah00 to Your Contacts

#230

Today, 04:18 PM

Gunther Senior Member

Veteran Geek

Very well put. We are only asking that products be properly represented as to what they

truly are. Nothing more, nothing less. Of course this is very similiar to the "White Glove

Treatment" we have been preached about.

__________________

Gunther

Up the Irons, Down the Smirny

Gunther

View Public Profile

Send a private message to Gunther

Find all posts by Gunther

Add Gunther to Your Contacts

#231

Today, 04:55 PM

I want what every other man want's, I Just want it MORE!

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Corinth, NE Mississippi

Posts: 619

Real Name: Gunther K.


nothing less. Of course this is very similiar to the "White Glove

Treatment" we have been preached about.

Up the Irons, Down the Smirny

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Corinth, NE Mississippi

Posts: 619

Real Name: Gunther K.


nothing less. Of course this is very similiar to the "White Glove

MagsterSenior Member

True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunther

Of course this is very similiar to the "White Glove Treatment" we have been preached

about.

Oh boy do I want to jump on this

another day we can cover the quality control/customer service stuff, but stretching the truth

(as with the White Glove Treatment) is not as bad (to me) as outright untruths...

Magster

View Public Profile




#232

Today, 05:45 PM

capthook Senior Member

Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magster


I put a disclaimer as the first sentence of the thread. Please read it

sorry mag didnt mean to offend anyone......but after reading 225 posts i thought a little light

hearted humor was in order...i was wrong........but to the matter of your thread.....i

personally dont own any watches that just say swiss on them...

made...i wouldnt care if the president said it was swiss made....its not ....if it was it would

say swiss made.....sorry to all that thought you bought a swiss made watch....{buyer

beware}....get well soon mag....sorry again....


True WatchGeek

Join Date: Mar 2008Location: Southern California

Posts: 9,339


Oh boy do I want to jump on this one too, but I can't take my own thread off topic... Maybe




I put a disclaimer as the first sentence of the thread. Please read it again...



personally dont own any watches that just say swiss on them....all mine say say swiss



beware}....get well soon mag....sorry again....


Posts: 9,339


one too, but I can't take my own thread off topic... Maybe



Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: new jersey Posts: 1,106

Real Name: buzz



.all mine say say swiss



Magster of Watchgeeks on the Invicta Lies

Documents

Transcript of Magster of Watchgeeks on the Invicta Lies