Gracie Combatives Review: Conclusion, Bad For The Sport

INTRODUCTION:A little about where I am coming from, I have needed an outlet to discuss this for weeks. I was a student in a Gracie Combatives Certified Training Center when I started training in BJJ. I left this school on good terms, I feel the instructor cared about the students learning the material, the environment was friendly, and every student would try to help each other. The instructor was and still is a Blue Belt. I met 3 guys from the same school I used to attend in my division at a local competition that I was friendly with while awaiting our names to be called to the mat. I won 4 gold medals in this competition Gi and No Gi, weight class and absolute. Although I won, some people were a challenge, but I completely dominated the 3 from the Gracie Combatives Program. 1 of these guys has become a face book friend of mine and we have hung out a few times. He has a crazy sense of reality when it comes to BJJ.

Now to introduce the review.

GRACIE ACADEMY ONLINE

Ryron Gracie and Rener Gracie have developed an online program. You sign up at their website. Learn moves that you can purchase from the curriculum. After purchasing all the moves in a set curriculum for the given belt level you are allowed to submit a video demonstrating that you can execute the moves in a pre-determined way, and it will be graded, for an additional fee of course. Then you receive a certified blue belt, congrats!

GRACIE COMBATIVES INSTRUCTORSHIP COURSE:

The school offers a Gracie Combatives Instructor Course. You enroll in a seminar style course for a very high fee. You are required to fly to their main academy or wherever they are hosting the instructorship course and find a place to stay, this is not included in the course fee. The course length is something like 1 week. I am writing from memory so the time frame may be a little off on this but it is close enough and even if its 2 weeks long, its irrelevant.

After the instructor course is complete you are then given a blue belt, and if you are an instructor of a school in another martial arts discipline you now qualify to apply to have your school become a Certified Gracie Training Center. Now everyone who is trained by one of these instructors in the art of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is under the prestigious umbrella of the Gracie Family Lineage.

CERTIFIED COMBATIVES TRAINING CENTERS

Now Instructors that have their school certified offer the combatives program and curriculum. This consists of something like 26 moves. You must take 2 or 3 lessons in each move, then complete a reflex development transition class where you try to understand how these moves connect with each other. Your instructor can record a test and submit it for approval by the Gracie Academy in Torrance, CA and receive your Blue Belt. This process can take a few weeks to a few months, this depends on the schedule of training and the instructor being willing to test you and submit it.

THE POSITIVE:

I will address the benefits I can appreciate in this program before I attack it...

-Structured Curriculum, Structure is rare in the teaching of BJJ.

-Benefit to the instructor: Standardized Foundation, schools teach the basics but rarely is it organized, the benefit may be for the instructor to know what each student has in his/her arsenal.

The End of My Positive Feedback

THE NEGATIVE: MY MAIN POINTS AND OPINIONS

First and foremost the curriculum is clear that White Belts DO NOT ROLL. Your question might be But they receive a Blue Belt and have never rolled in class? Answer: Yes, If they roll its with friends outside of class. I think this is because it is ineffective Jiu-Jitsu and the more you roll the more youll realize this but thats just my opinion.

-In my experience the students are convinced that the Gracie Combatives program is the best method to learn effective "street ready" Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I understand all schools use the My style is best approach to student retention. Its just part of the martial arts business tradition but I think this approach only works when the students are performing at an equal level compared to other schools of the same art. I personally do not feel the students in the Gracie Combatives Program are at the same level as students compared to any or most other BJJ schools .

-This process grants a blue belt to people very fast. Even if an instructor prolongs the process, the extent of knowledge is 26 moves give or take, if you are following the white to blue curriculum. I will not address this programs masters cycle (blue to black) curriculum, it is a JOKE to think this is possible. but I will use strong language to provide a formula in which to help you understand it.

It does not seem to make sense that a person can become a certified instructor in a week, receive a Blue Belt, then teach a curriculum to a large quantity of students and require them to spend more time acquiring skills that the so called instructor doesnt understand himself.

FORMULA:(Gracie Combatives * Marketing Hype) Devided by (Lack of skill * 10 per belt) = Inefficient Jiu-Jitsu to the power of 10 per belt.This means when you reach a belt in the Gracie Combatives Program people from real Jiu-Jitsu schools will be progressively 10 times better at that same level. Black Belt will be the exception, you will not be comparable.Blue Belt = 10x betterPurple Belt= 20x betterBrown Belt= 30x better

This means that if you follow this program in my opinion a Gracie Academy Certified Training Centers new Brown Belt will be of equal value to a normal BJJ schools Blue Belt.

MY ANALYSIS OF THE ONLINE SYSTEM

-The online combatives system is definitely a profit motivated initiative aimed towards obtaining a large quantity of students, without providing the quality of in person instruction.

Unlike online academic colleges providing schooling where you would essentially hear a lecture, or PowerPoint, complete reading and writing assignments for the course, and ask the teacher question can be done in a face to face class or by online correspondence.

Everyone who practices BJJ has used sites like YouTube to look up moves. This is a good tool for students in Jiu-Jitsu schools but it should only be supplemental to in class instruction. The development of the physical precision needed in BJJ needs to be monitored by a well trained instructor who pays attention to details, where you are subject to correction and minor tweaks according to limitations some students may have.

This is basically giving a blue belt for clocking hours watching YouTube style instruction, this is a horrible tradition to start. It leads people to believe they have a skill or credential that they do not really have. Much like a for profit technical college like ITT Tech, ECPI, etc... Where they advertise you can get your bachelors (blue belt) in a much shorter time than anywhere else. The only catch is no one else will recognize it (you will be much like a 1 stripe white belt if attending a normal BJJ school) and you will not be competitive in the job market (unless you were a talented wrestler before this, you will be completely dominated in any Jiu-Jitsu tournament at Blue Belt level, even in white belt divisions you will not perform to well against the 3 and 4 stripers). Thats my analogy on the online Gracie Combatives.

IN SUMMARY

The Gracie Academy Online and Certified Training Centers are a Joke. I believe it is a profit motivated agenda that does not promote the art in its fullest form. I am sure that many people have commented on this but I wanted my turn. I probably didnt cover my opinion as well as I like but I am at work and started to feel rushed. Please flame me on anything that wasnt clear or that you disagree with.

My last words can be considered food for the soul. Lets provide a small piece of an answer the age old question:

HOW DO YOU SPOT A BJJ McDOJO?- If your BJJ instructor is a BLUE BELT you might be in a McDOJO.- If your instructor can not promote your belt color on his own you might be at a McDojo.- If your head instructor is a Purple Belt, you might be at a McDojo.- If any of the above is true and you pay more than $50 a month. You might be at a McDojo.

My Experience with both Gracie Combatives and Sport BJJ

So I have been training in both Gracie Combatives at a Gracie Garage and BJJ at a sport BJJ school for a year and a half now. I thought I would share my experiences and opinion since periodically someone will come on the board, ask questions, and get some very one sided answers from people who really have no experience with both.

"The world according to me (take it for what it is worth)."

The basis of all BJJ is Gracie Jiu Jitsu. That being said, sport BJJ is geared toward competition with rules so many schools no longer teach ANY of the pure self defense techniques. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu has gone through a metamorphosis and has been adapted to fit the current competition environment.

BJJ techniques are geared toward facing an opponent in competition that also knows BJJ. The Gracie Combatives are really just a selection of the original self defense techniques taught by Helio and are not designed to be used against someone who knows BJJ.

Against someone who knows BJJ some of the Combatives work (Trap and Roll), others become irrelevant (punch block series), and other still will not work on them at all (this version of elevator sweep). That is not what they are designed for. However, in my experience they work REALLY WELL on those that do not know jiu jitsu. They work better and are more efficient than specifically BJJ techniques against these people. Some people my not believe this, but just think about it for a minute. Techniques are geared to act counter to a specific action. BJJ practitioners are much less likely to make a novice type of mistake. They have reactions to counter your technique and balance and the BJJ techniques take those reactions into account. An opponent untrained in BJJ with have completely different reactions than one trained in BJJ. Because of this certain techniques will not work on them as well, others work much better. Will BJJ techniques still work for self defense? Of course, but their are techniques in the Combatives that are more effective in this very specific situation.

Gracie Combatives techniques are great if you take them for what they were designed to do. They are not meant for sport competition, but they are still the original Gracie techniques as taught by Helio (not all of them, 36 of them to be exact).

Now onto the training in a garage vs training in a school controversy. In my opinion most BJJ instructionals are not detailed enough to allow you to learn very effectively at home without an experienced coach to guide you. Once you reach a certain level and know and understand the basics of jiu jitsu, then you can probably learn a great deal on your own with the instructionals and make them work for you without a coach. That being said I agree with many that it would be very difficult to learn on your own from the beginning without a good instructor.

Unlike the most BJJ instructionals, the Gracie Combatives are extremely detailed. They spend as much as 30 minutes to one hour on a single lesson (including explanation, demonstration, details, and drills). This makes the set very large by necessity (13 DVDs to cover 36 lessons). They cover all the most common mistakes, etc.

I really like some the BJJ instructionals like the Roy Dean Blue Belt set. It is great and for BJJ quite detailed, but not nearly as detailed as the Combatives. It cannot be, it covers many techniques in only 2 dvds. Also the Gracie Combatives is inexpensive ($120) for the amount of information that you get. I suspect that the only reason they can charge so little is that it they will make more money with everything else you buy on their site once you get hooked. Many of the things they sell on their online store are very expensive like $40 T-shirts, $45 shorts, posters, mats, belt testing fees, etc. I am not hating on them, it is business and they are very, very good at it.

I doubt that any BJJ instructor is going to have the time or means to make a set nearly as detailed as the Combatives. If they do it will have to be way to expensive for most people to afford.

Perceived weakness with the Gracie Combatives: no sparring until blue belt.Alot of people really area against this and I can understand why. They are good things about it and bad things. How many of you have been injured multiple times or re-injured and had to take some significant time off training? How many have had to quite completely. I know that I have had to take months off because of injuries. The journey from white to blue is got to be one of the most injury prone periods in jiu jitsu because you really do not know how to roll safely at first and you do not know your own limits. If you knew the basics and were comfortable on the ground by drilling techniques and fight simulation drills for 250 hrs before competing for sparring you would be much less like to injure yourself. That would make you much more likely to continue your journey in jiu jitsu. This makes everyone happier. You are happy because you can continue to learn injury free, the Gracie's are happy because they have satisfied customers, you continue to train and buy things/spread the word and make the Gracies even more money and hence more happy.

Obviously the other side of this is that since you do not spar until later in the game you are not learning as quickly (maybe this is partially balanced by time out for injuries?). I believe in sparring. I think that it is what really sets this martial art aside from others. You can spar full speed and power and see if it works. Everyone can walk away unscathed (usually) and do it again the next day.

In my opinion it is very hard to pick up "clean" technique in a school. To really get technique clean and crisp you have to drill, drill, drill, drill...you get the picture. There is no time for that in class usually. In my experience you are usually exposed to too many techniques in too short a period to really learn much or build any reflexes. If you are lucky you pick up one and eventually in the next few sparring sessions you can make it start to work for you. I feel that this is a really inefficient way of learning. What I get most out of class is the sparring.

The Combatives is much better for learning technique, BUT again these techniques are not really great for BJJ. And the sparring is lacking until later of course.

Conclusion: Training Gracie Combatives is not better or worse than training at a sport BJJ school. They both have different purposes. I am glad I have done both. I love the sparring. One thing I have learned from the Combatives is that in order to make my sport BJJ better I really need a training partner with whom I can drill BJJ technique. That combined with class would be a great combo.

Gracie Combatives and Sport BJJ - Sasha

At the Gracie Academy, our primary objective is to preserve the legacy of Grand Master Helio Gracie by making the invaluable benefits of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu available to the greatest number of people - regardless or age, gender or athletic ability. Because our curriculum, standardized promotion guidelines, and training philosophies differ from most jiu-jitsu organizations, we are often the target of criticism from outsiders who don't fully understand what is happening on the inside. Recently, a certified GJJ instructor from the UK, Sacha King, took the time to address some concerns had by one such critic. His response was so complete, and well articulated, that we though it would be a shame not to share it with the rest of the family.

billysue2 posted the following statement on Sacha's YouTube channel:

"I think its great that you guys are focusing on what bjj is supposed to be. I've been to lots of jiu-jitsu dojos in the UK and Europe and I've never seen any that do sparring with strikes. To me that's ridiculous. The only problem I have with Gracie University is the complete absence of resistance sparring for a blue belt. That's a joke. You aren't competent if you can't defend full contact random attacks. It reminds me of the time I spent/wasted in Japanese Jujitsu."

Sacha's YouTube reply to billysue2:

@billysue2 Thank you for your comment. The main reason why 'some' of the BJJ community members are against Gracie University, or even Gracie Jiu-Jitsu in general, is that they don't fully understand it. Among other things, they see, hear or focus on a snippet of information such as 'there is no competitive sparring on your journey to blue belt' and so presume that there's no 'sparring/fighting' in any of the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu syllabuses.

So let me verify a couple of points for you, since you do seem genuinely interested in the system and its differences.

Let me start by saying that although Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu both came from the same source, and they feature the same sweeps, submissions, controls and escapes, there is a significant difference between the two. Most notably, is the training/teaching philosophy. Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is taught, first and foremost as a system of self-defense, with the objective of giving the student the ability to stay safe and prevail during a real street fight confrontation, whereas Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, in most cases, is taught exclusively as a recreational sport.

True - There is NO competitive sparring on your road to blue belt, and, coming from a sport BJJ background myself, I must admit when I first heard this I was like, huh...how can this be? That is until the process was explained to me, and then it made complete sense.

Let me explain. The problem occurs at this level when you directly compare to two systems together and do not take into consideration the differences. The definition of a BJJ blue belt (ignoring the occasional politics and fake belt promotions associated with much of the modern day BJJ practice) is that to be a blue belt you have to be able to beat/hang with a blue belt, to be a purple belt beat/hang with a purple, etc. all in 'live' 100% sparring. So, from the very start of the jiu-jitsu journey the focus of a BJJ white-belt is concentrated around being able to beat/hang with 'advanced' BJJ practitioners in the sport-focused grappling matches (i.e. no strikes of any kind involved).

Now, lets flip it back over to Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. Grand Master Helio Gracie's definition of a blue belt is: Someone how can defend themselves against a larger, stronger, more athletic attacker in a 'real' street fight situation, and as such understands and has learned the core techniques (those which are now featured in the Gracie Combatives program) which would be essential in giving you the ability/strategy to do just that. So, with this, it becomes clear that the initial training objective of a beginning GJJ practitioner is not to prepare for "BJJ Trained'' opponents in 'wrestling' or 'grappling' matches (something that would only take place in a gym or in a sportive setting), but to prepare for the eventualities of a real street fight against the most likely opponent - a bigger, stronger, untrained attacker. As a certified GJJ instructor, it is my primary goal and obligation to ensure that if one of my students gets in a street fight 6 months from the day they sign up, they do not get beat up. So, until a student is deemed "street ready" no training time is spent on the sportive aspect of the art.

So comparing the belts together (at this level) is a very chalk & cheese approach. A BJJ student focused on sport application may have trained 1-2 years to obtain his blue belt, and may have been able to do that with a relatively limited amount of techniques so long as he was athletically capable of 'hanging' with the rest, whereas a new GJJ student may have learned and developed reflexes in the street applicable Gracie Combatives techniques in as little as 12 months.

If you put them both together at this stage and fought in a BJJ 'competition' then there's no doubt that the BJJ practitioner should have a definite advantage, after all that is what their 'focus' has been since day one. On the other hand, if you put both students in a real fight against a bigger stronger attacker then the GJJ student should have the definite advantage since that is what their focus has been since day one.

Now bear in mind that there are always 'exceptions' to the rule but I'm hoping this gives you a little insight to the importance of understanding what the students 'focuses and goals' are at this level as it will help to further explain some important points later in this explanation.

So we have ascertained that the only way to gauge the progress of a BJJ student is by how well they do in competition or competitive sparring against another skilled practitioner, AND the only way to truly gauge the progress of a beginner GJJ student would be to see 'how well' they do in a street fight against a bigger, stronger, unskilled attacker. While it is practical for a BJJ student to practice this way, it is impractical, immoral, and illegal for a GJJ student to practice this way (street fights). Therefore, in order for a beginner to be able to learn the techniques properly and effectively they NEED to be done within a communal learning environment with a co-operative partner. After all, if you don't understand a technique well enough for it to be successful against a co-operative opponent, then you'll surely have trouble against an uncooperative street-fight opponent.

Showing complete technical understanding of ALL variations of the 36 Gracie Combatives techniques, while demonstrating sharp reflexes with instinctive responses to technical indicators presented by your training partner in an unscripted Fight Simulation exercise, qualifies you for your blue belt in GJJ. And that is where the journey begins.

Only once you have earned your blue belt, and the Gracie Academy is confident that you understand the techniques and principles that will keep you safe from the most likely attack behaviors against the most likely street-fight opponents, does the training-focus switch to 'How do I defeat a bigger, stronger, more athletic, SKILLED opponent in a sportive grappling match OR in a street fight' and this a achieved through immersion in 'The Master Cycle.'

In the Master Cycle, not only will you learn hundreds of additional "street-fight-only" techniques that are rarely taught outside of the Gracie Academy and its Certified Training Centers (CTCs), but you will also learn all the sport BJJ techniques that are taught everywhere else. In addition, you will experience the 100% competitive sparring that you are inquiring about, but you do so in ways that are much more dynamic than what is found in most BJJ schools.

Let me explain a little further. There are 3 class "types" within the Master Cycle curriculum that ALL students must participate in and these are: 1) Rapid Mastery Classes, 2) Fight Simulation Classes, and 3) Focused Sparring Classes. These classes are further divided into smaller categories but I'll just give you a condensed breakdown as this explanation is getting long enough as it is.

Let's say for example the Master Cycle technique of focus, is a certain arm bar. Once you are confident in the individual steps of the technique, you will put it to the test in a very specialized Rapid Mastery Drill (RMD) against a training partner who is providing progressively increasing intensity until you reach failure. The goal here is to work up to 100% resistance so you can learn all the applications/limitations of the newly learned arm bar.

Once the new arm bar has been tested in the RMD, you would then take the same technique and run it through Fight Simulation Classes. Here you would develop comfort in implementing the techniques against a fully 'striking' opponent in a variety of Live Fight Simulation exercises, during which your partner wears 18oz. boxing gloves and you don't. Your training partner's goal is to strike, your goal is to survive, control, and submit your partner. It's challenging, but VERY fun.

Finally, you would take the same arm bar and solidify it as part of your arsenal as you use it in combination with all your other techniques in the Focus Sparring class. The training partner's are fully resistant, and the sparring exercises are challenging, but by the end, the newly learned technique is yours.

Basically, GJJ training (in the big picture) not only provides a more realistic approach to training, but also a much more complete and well-planned one in my opinion. Once you, and everyone else interested (BJJ Community), understand the full picture, I am confident that you will retract and concur.

Gracie University got blasted, as soon as it was launched, by people who never checked it out and based all of their opinions on what they heard from others. Those who actually investigate it for themselves often find it to be the most complete and informative video-based instructional curriculum ever developed. Ironically, many of these same haters are now trying to develop their own versions of what the Gracies have done.

The Gracie Combatives program was also blasted by people who speculated and knocked it before truly understanding what it was; now these same people and organizations are not only 'borrowing' these techniques as their own, but they're also now trying to developed their own versions of the Gracie Combatives program.

GJJ blue belts have been blasted by people/organizations who don't understand the big picture, but yet we have many BJJ students (I was one of them!) that switched to training the Gracie way and only then, realized the limited applicability and practicality of the techniques at their own BJJ clubs.

The omission of sportive grappling in the very beginning allows us to ensure maximum street readiness for our students in the least amount of time possible. And the difference of sportive grappling ability between a GJJ blue belt and a BJJ blue belt quickly diminishes with the introduction of the Master Cycle, so that by the time a student has a few stripes on their blue belt, the is no difference (I realized this the hard way the first time I visited the Gracie Academy in Torrance, when I was a four-stripe blue belt in BJJ).

The bottom line is that the jiu-jitsu that was perfected, brought to America, and popularized by the Gracies, can be practiced both as a system of self-defense AND as a recreational sport. Any individuals, schools, or organizations that are practicing the art with a primary focus on street applicability, while enjoying and perfecting the sportive aspect as a secondary priority, are practicing Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. On the other hand, people who practice the art with a primary emphasis on sportive mastery, while giving little or no attention to real street-fight application of the techniques, are practicing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

In closing, it's fair to say that Gracie Jiu-JItsu encompasses all of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, but Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu does not emcompass all of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. And with most jiu-jitsu schools focusing exclusively on the sportive application of jiu-jitsu there is no guarantee that a new student who walks into his local jiu-jitsu school will ever learn the most important thing this incredible art has to offer - reliable and realistic self-defense techniques for worst-case street fight scenarios - and that is what the Gracies are trying to change.

Hope this helps.

Keeping it real in the UK,Sacha