Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

53
Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer

Transcript of Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Page 1: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Europe investor meetingsJanuary 2007

Robert McFarlaneEVP & Chief Financial Officer

Page 2: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Forward looking statements

All dollars in C$ unless otherwise specified

2

This meeting and answers to questions contain forward-looking statements that require assumptions about expected future events including 2007 targets, competition, financing, financial and operating results, and regulation that are subject to inherent risks and uncertainties. There is significant risk that predictions and other forward looking statements will not prove to be accurate so do not place undue reliance on them.

Factors that could cause actual results to differ materially include but are not limited to: competition; capital expenditure levels (including possible spectrum purchases); financing and debt requirements (including share repurchases and debt redemptions); tax matters (including deferral of payment of significant cash taxes); regulatory developments (including local forbearance, local price cap regulation and wireless number portability); process risks (including conversion of legacy systems and billing system integrations); and other risk factors discussed herein and listed from time to time in TELUS’ reports.

There are many factors that could cause actual results to differ materially. For a full listing and description of the potential risk factors and assumptions, please refer to the TELUS 2005 annual report and updates in the 2006 quarterly reports (see Section 10 Risks and Risk Management in Management’s discussion and analysis), 2007 targets news release issued on Dec. 14, 2006 and other filings with securities commissions in Canada (sedar.com) and the United States (sec.gov).

Page 3: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

About TELUS 4 Strategy 5 Operational update 10 Financial update 29 Investor considerations 39 Appendix 47

slides starting

Table of contents

3

Page 4: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

About TELUS Executing national growth strategy focused on data, IP & wireless

2006 guidance update1:

Revenues $8.65 to $8.70B 6 to 7% EBITDA $3.55 to $3.6B 6 to

9% EPS (basic)2 $3.15 to $3.25 38 to 40% Capex approx. $1.625B 20%

Enterprise value: ~$24B (equity ~$18B) Daily Trading: ~2.4M (Recent 90 day avg.) Listings: Common: TSX T; non-voting: TSX T.A; NYSE TU Reporting segments: wireless and wireline

4

2007 targets reflect healthy performance expected in wireless

1 Provided or re-affirmed on December 14, 2006

2 EPS includes $0.42 YTD Q3-06 of unbudgeted positive tax-related adjustments

Page 5: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Leading the way with a proven strategy

Strategic imperatives Focusing on growth markets of data and wireless Building national capabilities Providing integrated solutions Investing in internal capabilities Partnering, acquiring and divesting as necessary Going to market as one team

strategic intent… to unleash the power of the Internet to deliver the best solutions to Canadians at home, in the workplace and on the move.

Consistent strategy and execution 2000 2007

5

Page 6: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Strategic journey highlights

purchase of Quebec Tel purchase of national wireless operator Clearnet divestiture of non-core assets (real estate and directories) completion of national IP backbone & fibre network first in N.A. to launch Next Generation Network, enabling IP based

solutions for customers won national managed data solutions contract for TD Bank Verizon divested 20.5% ($2.2B) equity interest #1 or #2 North American wireless operator for past 8 quarters five year (2010) progressive collective agreement ratified staged launch of TELUS TV® in certain western markets wireless merger into customer facing business units won landmark Government of Ontario managed network contract valued

at $140 million over 5 years

2000

20076

Page 7: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Wireless Jan 2000 today1

• PoPs covered (millions) 7 31

• Mike (iDEN) (millions) - 26

• Generation 1G 3G

Wireline

• Ont/Que cities 3 41

• Co-locations 2 94

• Customer POPs 5 904

• Fibre lit (km) 0 14,000

• Platform Stentor TELUS

• Network Circuit-based Next Generation (NGN)

National transformation

1 as of September 30, 2006

7

Page 8: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

8

87%Wireline 13% 49%

Wireline

51%Wireless

TELUS infrastructure today

Page 9: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

$8.5B

20062Revenue

20001

Data and wireless now represent 63% of TELUS revenue

$5.7B

Wireline local27%

LD10%

Wireline Data19%

Wireless Voice

41%

Wireless Data

3%

LD23%

Wireline local49%

Wireless

18%

10%

Data

1 12 months ending Jun. 2000 2 12 months ending Sep. 2006

TELUS’ strategic focus on data and wireless

Page 10: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Operational update

Page 11: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Advance TELUS’ leadership position in the Consumer market

Advance TELUS position in the Business market

Advance TELUS position in the Wholesale market

Drive improvements in productivity and service excellence

Strengthen the spirit of the TELUS team and brand, and develop the best talent in global communications industry

2006 priorities support national growth strategy

Continued on strategy execution for benefit of investors11

Page 12: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

TELUS total subscriber connections

Connections increased 1 million due to wireless and Internet

12

Wireless

High-speed Internet

Dial-up Internet

Res NALs

Bus NALs

(millions)

Q3-06Q3-05Q3-04

10.510.0

9.5

Page 13: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Total wireless subscribers

Postpaid 81%

Prepaid 19%

Net additions

Total subscribers up 14% and strong postpaid mix

13

4.9 million total

3.9M

925K

Q3-05 Q3-06

80%81%

282K283K

349K354K

Wireless subscriber results

YTD

Page 14: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

14

Fostering continued data growth

Launched wireless high speed (EVDO) 24+ major urban markets

Cool applications

Music downloads and video games

Watch 15 channels on Mobile TV

Five times faster

Wireless data growth opportunity

Page 15: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Industry ARPU comparison

$61

$49

$63

$55

$51

TELUS Rogers Wireless BCE Wireless

review of operations – wireless

Increased usage and data driving positive industry trend usage

15

YTD Q3-05

YTD Q3-06

$51

Page 16: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Wireless data growth opportunity

$2.85

$5.11

$6.23

TELUS Rogers Wireless

review of operations – wireless

TELUS Q3 data ARPU up 79%

16

Q3-05

Q3-06

$4.60

Page 17: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

T-mobileUSA

2.9%

17

YTD Q3-06 wireless churn

low churn relative to global peers

SprintNextel

2.2%

1.8%

Cingular

1.60%

RogersWireless

1.86%

BCE

1.33%

TELUS Verizon

1.2%

2.3%

OrangeFrance

1.70%

T-mobileGermany

1.1%

TIMItaly

2.4%

KPNMobile

2.8%

VodafoneUK

Source: Merrill Lynch Wireless Matrix Q3 2006

Page 18: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

TELUS wireless EBITDA & cash flow growth

2000¹

173

(360)

356

2001²

(288)

535

75

2002

815

455

2003

1,142

788

2004 2005

¹ Pro forma acquisition of Clearnet

² EBITDA (excluding restructuring) for 2001 & 2002

1,443

1,038

EBITDA ($M)

EBITDA less Capex ($M)

1,737

1,275

18

1,975

2007E4

1,427

³ Midpoints of 2006 targets. See forward looking statement caution. 4 Midpoint of 2007 targets normalized for pre-tax option expense of $50 million.

2006E3

Page 19: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Wireless profitability and economic growth

review of operations

TELUS a North American leader

19

Source: Company Reports, using total revenue

TELUS

46%

US avg.Other CdnYTD Q3-06

EBITDA margin 42% 32%

Capex intensity

Cash flow yield 35%

11% 12% 16%

16%30%

Page 20: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Increasing Canadian industry wireless penetration

review of operations

4 to 5 million net additions expected in Canada over 3 years

20

Source: Industry analysts

2003

42%

2009E*

~70%

2006 (Sep)

54%Penetration:

13.4M ~23M17.8MSubscribers:

* See forward looking statement caution

Page 21: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Exclusive arrangement and investment

21

Amp’d Mobile responsible for marketing, freshest and exclusive entertainment content, and optimized handsets

TELUS responsible for managing sales and distribution, billing, client care, network options and pricing

Targeting 18 to 35 age demographic and lifestyle

Exclusive licensing and service agreement – not a traditional MVNO

Amp’d Mobile is a premium brand with high ARPUs focused on mobile media (not traditional voice) and postpaid

TELUS Ventures investing US $7.5M in Amp’d Mobile, Inc.

Page 22: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Amp’d Is Mobile Media

Page 23: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

2005 2006E1

632650-675

EBITDA ($M)Revenue ($M)

2004

561

2005 2006E1

21

~30

2004

(22)2003

555

2003

(29)

Non-ILEC (Ontario and Quebec) revenue & EBITDA

1 December 14, 2006 guidance. See forward looking statement caution.

Continued focus on profitable, long-term growth in Central Canada

23

Page 24: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

1.1 million total

Total Internet subscribers

High-speed81%

Dial up19%

High-speed Internet subscriber growth

46K

109K

High-speed Internet net additions

24

Q3-05 Q3-06

872K

206K

Continued strong net addition growth due to effective marketing

YTD

Page 25: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Rolling out TELUS TV

financial review

25

Offering customers differentiated entertainment

Choice of 200+ digital stations

Customized channel packaging

Interactive programming guide

Video on demand

myTELUS channel

Call display

Operating on ADSL2+ platform

Launched in Edmonton, Calgary and Vancouver

Page 26: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

26

TELUS TV

Page 27: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

CloseIncoming call from Kim Smith (604) 555-1234

Page 28: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Price Cap Regulatory Framework

Competitive Intensity

Technological Substitution + +

Non-ILEC Growth

Future Friendly

Home

Organization Effectiveness+ +

Strive to hold wireline EBITDA (before restructuring) flat over medium term

=Growth in revenues and EBITDA from wireless business

Continued improvements in consolidated results

growth opportunities challenges

Short-term dilutive

wireline

28

Framework for long term growth

Page 29: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Financial update

Page 30: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

2006 Consolidated guidance summary

$1.5 to $1.55BCapex

$1.55 to $1.65BFree cash flow

$2.40 to $2.60EPS (basic)4

EBITDA3

Revenue

$3.5 to $3.6B

$8.6 to $8.7B

Overall positive revisions to original guidance throughout year

30

Original 2006 guidance 1

Updated 2006 guidance 2

approx. $1.625B

$1.6 to $1.65B

$3.15 to $3.25

$3.55 to $3.6B

$8.65 to $8.70B

On track

1 Provided on December 16, 2005 2 Provided or re-affirmed on December 14, 20063 Original targets included restructuring & workforce reduction costs of approx. $100M, vs. up to

$80M for re-affirmed guidance

4 EPS includes $0.42 YTD Q3-06 of unbudgeted positive tax-related adjustments

Page 31: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

2007 Consolidated targets summary

approx. $1.75BCapex

Revenue $9.175 to 9.275B

2007 targets reflect healthy performance expected in wireless

31

2007 targets change

8%

6 to 7%

1 Restructuring and workforce reduction costs are estimated to be up to $80 million in 2006 and approximately $50 million in 2007.

2 EBITDA normalized for expected 2007 pre-tax option expense of $200 million consolidated ($150 million in wireline and $50 million in wireless). Reported EBITDA in 2007 would be $3.525 to $3.625 billion consolidated, $1.625 to $1.675 billion in wireline, and $1.90 to $1.95 billion in wireless .

3 EPS normalized for $0.40 for expected 2007 cash settlement option expense. Reported EPS in 2007 would be $2.85 to $3.05.

Normalized EBITDA1 $3.725 to 3.825B2 4 to 7%

Normalized EPS $3.25 to 3.453 17 to 24%

Page 32: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

2007 Wireline targets

approx. $1.2BCapex

Revenue $4.85 to 4.9B

32

2007 targets change

-

1 to 2%

1 Restructuring and workforce reduction costs are estimated to be up to $80 million in 2006 and approximately $50 million in 2007.

2 EBITDA normalized for expected 2007 pre-tax option expense of $200 million consolidated ($150 million in wireline and $50 million in wireless). Reported EBITDA in 2007 would be $3.525 to $3.625 billion consolidated, $1.625 to $1.675 billion in wireline, and $1.90 to $1.95 billion in wireless.

Normalized EBITDA1 $1.775 to 1.825B2 (1) to (3)%

High-speed sub. net adds more than 135,000 -

Page 33: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

2007 Wireless targets summary

approx. $550MCapex

Revenue $4.325 to 4.375B

33

2007 targets change

12 to 13%

1 Restructuring and workforce reduction costs are estimated to be up to $80 million in 2006 and approximately $50 million in 2007.

2 EBITDA normalized for expected 2007 pre-tax option expense of $200 million consolidated ($150 million in wireline and $50 million in wireless). Reported EBITDA in 2007 would be $3.525 to $3.625 billion consolidated, $1.625 to $1.675 billion in wireline, and $1.90 to $1.95 billion in wireless.

Normalized EBITDA1 $1.95 to 2.0B2 12 to 15%

29%

Wireless sub. net adds more than 550,000 -

Page 34: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

2007 Consolidated revenue targets ($B)

34

Revenue growth of 6 to 7% driven by 12 to 13% wireless and modest wireline growth

2006E1 2007E

~8.675 9.175 to 9.275

2005

8.143

2004

7.581

1 Midpoint of updated 2006 guidance

Page 35: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

2007 Consolidated EBITDA target ($B)

35

Target represents normalized EBITDA growth of 4 to 7% due to 12 to 15% growth in wireless

2006E1 2007Ereported

~3.575 3.525 to 3.625

2005

3.295

2004

3.091

1 Midpoint of updated 2006 guidance 2 2007 EBITDA target normalized for cash settlement option expense of $200M

2007E2

normalized target

3.725 to 3.825

Page 36: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

2007 EPS ($)

36

1 Midpoint of updated 2006 guidance

2006E1 2007E

~3.202.85 to 3.05

2005

1.96

2004

1.58

Reported 2007 EPS down 5 to 11%

Page 37: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

2007 EPS continuity

37

Strong normalized EPS growth of 17 to 24%

2006E1

~$3.20

42¢

Higher dep.

Lowerfin.

costs

Decr. in avg o/sshares

EBITDA growth

Tax- related adjust.

~$2.78

2006E normal.

35 to 55 ¢

11¢

10 to 15¢

2007E

$2.85 to 3.05

40¢

Cashsettlement for options

1 Midpoint of updated 2006 guidance

$3.25 to 3.45

2007E normal.

Page 38: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

2007 free cash flow detail ($B)

38

2007 Free Cash Flow expected to remain high

1 Midpoint of updated 2006 guidance

2006E1 2007E

~1.6251.45 to 1.55

Free cash flow (2006 definition)

20052004

1.47

1.30

Page 39: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Investor considerations

Page 40: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Renewed 24 million share repurchase program in Dec. 2006

Authorized to repurchase up to 12M common and 12M non-voting (up to 7% of total shares outstanding)

Introducing cash settlement for vested options - mitigates shareholder dilution

Dividend increased by 36% to 37.5 cents per quarter for Jan 1, 2007, consistent with dividend growth approach

Annualized dividend in line with targeted payout ratio guideline of 45 to 55% of sustainable net earnings

Annualized dividend now at all time high of $1.50

40

Return of capital summary

Page 41: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

41

1

2

3

4

2003 2004 2005 20061 2007E2,3

0.60

3.30 3.43Dividends

Share repurchases

$ per share

1 Actual dividend, plus share repurchases for year ended December 31, 2006

0.82

Strong record of returning capital

0.801.10

1.50

3.83

2 Annualized dividend, plus share repurchases in 2006 as estimate for 20073 See forward looking statement caution. Assumes continuation of share repurchase program.

0.60

2.33

0.22

2.50

2.33

Page 42: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Positive step toward reliance on competitive market forces

42

Recent regulatory development

Forbearance policy announcement by Minister of Industry:

ILEC deregulation test

Residential – ILEC, unaffiliated wireless, and cableco

Business – ILEC plus unaffiliated facilities-based competitor

Winback and promotions restrictions to be eliminated

Geographic forbearance areas reduced (e.g. local exchanges)

Quality of Service indicators reduced

a reduction from 14 to 9 required to be met

Expect to obtain forbearance in major urban ILEC markets in second half of 2007

Page 43: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Cash flow1

EBITDA

Revenue

20052004Growth in

EPS

2003

1 EBITDA less capital expenditures. See forward looking statement caution

Source: Bloomberg and TD Securities data on major global incumbent telecoms

43

Leading global telecom performance

#1

#1top 25%

top 25%

#1

- top 25%

top 25%

top 25%

#1

top 25%

#2

TELUS performing well relative to global telecom peers

2006

top 25%

top 25%

top 25%

top 50%

Page 44: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Annual Report on Annual Reports TELUS 2005 AR ranked 1st in world

Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants (CICA) Best Corporate Governance Disclosure in Canada (December 2006) 2005 Annual Report received Award of Excellence

Corporate Reporting - Communications & Media sector 12 consecutive years of recognition

IR Magazine (Canada) awards 2006: Best 2004 annual report & disclosure policy 2005: Best mgmt. communications & web site

Dow Jones Sustainability Index Only North American telco in global index

e.ComReport Watch

44

Excellence in disclosure and governance

Page 45: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Strong revenue growth with high exposure to wireless

EBITDA growth driven by wireless

Continued wireless and Internet subscriber growth

Focus on investment in growth areas

Track record of returning capital to investors

Excellence in reporting, transparency and governance

investor considerations summary

45

2007 targets consistent with TELUS growth model

Page 46: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Investor Relations

1-800-667-4871telus.com

[email protected]

46

Page 47: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Appendix

47

Page 48: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

Share repurchase programs

Total cost ($M) $78

Track record of share repurchases

48

2004

$1,800

1 percentage of 25.5 million share repurchase program Dec. 20, 2004 to Dec. 19, 2005

2 percentage of 24 million share repurchase program Dec 20, 2005 to Dec. 19, 2006

Total Shares (M) 2.2 39.4

% of total program

2005 2006 Total

$892 $800

20.8 16.4

85%1 73%2 79%

Page 49: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

2007 free cash flow detail ($B)

49

2007 Free Cash Flow expected to remain high

2 Expected cash impact due to option cash settlement of approximately $100M midpoint

2006E 2007E2

~1.6 1.525 to 1.625

normalized Free cash flow

(2007 definition1)

1 2007 definition of FCF subtracts cash payments related to Other expenses

Page 50: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

50

2007E free cash flow detail

$1,425 to 1,525

~(430)

~200

$3,525 to 3,625

2007E

Free Cash Flow

Net Cash Interest

Add back: cash settled option expense

EBITDA

($M)

~(20)Other1:

1 Includes restructuring expense (net of cash payments), net cash taxes, other share based compensation (net of cash payments) and cash payments related to Other expenses

2 Cash settled option payments are tax deductible and reduce treasury share issuance

$3,725 to 3,825EBITDA normalized

~(1,750)Capex

Free Cash Flow (before cash settled option pmt.) $1,525 to 1,625

Cash settled options paid2 (75) to (125)

Page 51: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

TELUS definitions for non-GAAP measures

51

Definitions EBITDA: Earnings, after restructuring and workforce

reduction costs, before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization

Capital intensity: capex divided by total revenue

Cash flow: EBITDA less capex

Free Cash Flow (2006): EBITDA, adding Restructuring and workforce reduction costs, cash interest received and excess of share compensation expense over share compensation payments, subtracting cash interest paid, cash taxes, capital expenditures, and cash restructuring payments

Free Cash Flow (2007): Consistent with FCF above and subtracting cash payments related to Other expenses such as charitable donations and A/R securitization expense

Page 52: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

TELUS Corporation

Agency Rating Outlook

DBRS BBB (high) Stable trend

S&P BBB+ Stable outlook

Fitch BBB+ Stable outlook

Moody’s Baa2 Under Review for upgrade

Solid investment grade

Credit rating overview

52

Page 53: Europe investor meetings January 2007 Robert McFarlane EVP & Chief Financial Officer.

53

Robert G. McFarlaneExecutive Vice-President & Chief Financial Officer

Appointed TELUS CFO in late 2000 and assumed corporate strategy and M&A responsibilities in 2005

Formerly EVP, CFO and secretary-treasurer of Clearnet Communications Inc. from its 1994 IPO until its acquisition by TELUS.

Vice-chair of Business Council of British Columbia and a member of its Economic Policy Committee. Director and Chair of Audit Committees of Royal & SunAlliance Insurance Company of Canada and Ascalade Communications Inc. Serves on Vancouver Advisory Board of Salvation Army, British Columbia Division.

Bachelor of Commerce (Honours) degree from Queen’s University in 1983 and MBA from Richard Ivey School of Business at University of Western Ontario in 1985.