Guest interview:

Cat Lane

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ADMIN NOTE: Hi everyone tonight we have canine nutritionist and herbal healer Cat Lane joining us. As always please remember questions can only be answered as quick as our guest can type and we will be posting all Cat's courses and links at end of chat. Hi Cat - welcome! Just to start off i was hoping you could just tell us a bit about what it is you do and what got you involved in this work to begin with?

Cat Lane Hi Denise, and first let me say, thank you for having me!

Christine Holmes Spriggs Bennett welcome Cat!!

Kim Pike Hi Cat, so happy to see you here!

Kim Carnell Hi Cat looking forward to this chat

Cat Lane This was kind of an organic unfolding, you know my Dad was a vet and I grew up working

around animals

Denise O'Moore Welcome Cat - diet is always a fasinating topic on this page.

Cat Lane Hi you guys - so nice to be here.

Kim Carnell what made you choose nutrition to study

Cat Lane yeah and sometimes contentious, lol

but that's mostly because we are all so passionate about our dogs..

Anna Patfield Hiya Cat, I see you did the CASI nutrition course - I just completed that in 2012.

Micha Michlewicz Hi Cat, I'd like to ask, what are some of the roles diet plays on behavior?

Cat Lane so yeah, I started having health issues at about 18, no kidding - and I launched into a study of

human nutrition - by my 30s I was very seriously studying both herbs and nutrition for humans - and then, I

got...this DOG...

so, she was my bridge into bringing these worlds together - my background with my Dad and my own interest in

natural health

Kim Carnell ah the one dog that put the cat among the pigeons

Cat Lane Hi Anna Patfield - yep, that course was very important for me.

17 February at 20:03 · Like

Kim Carnell did she have diet problems

Christine Holmes Spriggs Bennett this may be a loaded question but it comes up A LOT in our corner of

the world...what are your thoughts on raw feeding?

Cat Lane Yep. Lila had virtually everything *wrong* with her and I was determined to get her better, so I

hooked up with Eddie Beltran (DVM) here in Ottawa and we got to work.

Kim Carnell or behavioural or a mixture of both

Eileen Stephenson I feed raw. Can you see a benefit putting some coconut oil in with the

diet? Denise O'Moore thank you.

Cat Lane Kim Carnell - she had gastritis, early onset cardiomyopathy, spondylosis and later, renal

disease and cancer

Kim Carnell did you try both avenues of nutrition produced pet food and dare I say it BARF

Cat Lane Chrsitine - my thoughts on raw feeding...well, it's not loaded so much as complex

Christine Holmes Spriggs Bennett oh my, poor Lila!

that's what I find so daunting!

Cat Lane When people say "raw diet" they can mean a whole range of things, from a well balanced diet to

some really bad ones I have seen over the years

Shay Kelly Hi, I see feeding a dogs whole ration of food in one go as such a wasted opportunity. The

food can be used in many small training sessions, for games, for putting in kongs and generally enriching the

lives of our pets. What are your thoughts on this way of feeding

Kim Carnell it is a hard one as raw is still so new in comparison with processed food

Cat Lane My own approach is very pragmatic, I am not at all attached to any one method of feeding. I

look at the individual dog and assess what I think will be optimal

Jackie McBrearty hi Cat I have an 8 year old lab retriever she is a guide dog, i have her on a joint

care food would you recommend any extra suplaments to maintain healthy joints. she is active and isn't over

weight. thank you

Kim Carnell not a great deal of scientific study

Cat Lane I deal with many, many dogs who didn't do so well on raw diets but the owners were so

convinced it had to be optimal they were really nervous about cooking the food...but, it turned out cooked was

optimal.

Cat Lane and vice versa I hasten to add

so my criteria for an optimal diet is one that uses the best ingredients, provides true nutrient balance - and works

for the dog! could be raw - could be cooked.I do this for a living so I want results!

Kim Carnell On raw there are schools of thought that dogs do not need veg and need only meat was

taught a balance was needed for vit levels

Christine Stansfield Kim, I think you will probably find that processed food is the new option! Dogs in

the past were fed on bones and table scraps.

Cat Lane Yeah, Kim I vigorously disagree with that school of thought

Kim Carnell I understand that but now it is becoming more popular Christine Stansfield it is opening

up a great debate on pros and cons and follow non veg or grains etc

Roz Latchman May I ask a question regarding my dog specifically? Or would that be frowned upon?

Shay Kelly Denise O'Moore, Hi, I see feeding a dogs whole ration of food in one go as such a wasted

opportunity. The food can be used in many small training sessions, for games, for putting in kongs and generally

enriching the lives of our pets. What are your thoughts on this way of feeding

Cat Lane and we need to think about what we mean by "need"....I mean, I have clients whose dogs are

not doing well at all, and they are very insistent we "not use grains"(by which they usually mean, carbs in general)

because it's "not natural". And then I assess the intake form and they're adding stuff like coconut oil - you know?

I've written a lot on carbs - pro and con

Kim Carnell as Roz Latchman your question could be relevant to us all

Cat Lane Sure, fine by me

Denise O'Moore Thank you Shay have that saved

Eileen Stephenson Eileen Stephenson I feed raw. Can you see a benefit putting some coconut oil in

with the diet? Denise O'Moore thank you.

Cat Lane So, I think there is this very great fear of carbs, and of being "unnatural" when in my experience,

those are very BIG generalizations

Eileen Stephenson So what benefit are the filler that are in some processed foods?

Cat Lane Eileen Stephenson - well, sure, but it depends on the dog. Do they need more overall dietary

fat? Is the fatty acid balance(meaning the essentials, which coconut oil is not) well met/ Whenever an owner

approachs me with a question about ANy supplement, I ask back - well, what do you want to accomplish with it?

because if they say "better coat" for example, we might start with taking a deeper look at what's in the diet - and

find it's not actually coconut oil they need after all.

Micha Michlewicz Cat, are you an advocate of the school of thought that different breeds need

different diet requirements? Examples: Asian breeds need rice in their diet, Northern breeds need a lot of fish,

etc.

Cat Lane Did that make sense?

Gemma Beel Hi cat, my dog has serious issues with tail chasing, do you think this could be due to his

diet ? The only one ive found to work so far that gives solid poos is Chappie biscuits ? Thanks

Eileen Stephenson Yes thanks

Cat Lane what breed is he?

Kim Carnell I never added much oil to my diets as I found if the balance was correct they never

needed it was I wrong in thinking this

Cat Lane There is a fairly rare nutritional disorder that can cause this..

Fran Hill I feed my Whippet and Greyhound a raw diet, but don't give grains. Is it necessary to

supplement with zinc, if grains aren't fed? I understand the phytates in grains can bind to zinc, making it

unavailable to the body. I give beef and liver for zinc, and try to watch the copper intake. Additionally, I would like

to find a food rich in vitamin E that my dogs will eat (they won't eat veg or fruit, and refuse mince if it has veg

mixed in with it).

Elly Micklewright I have a client whose dog is struggling to put on weight. She is determined to

continue with the same dry dog food but has asked if there is anything else she can give him to help him gain

weight? She wants a quick solution!!!

Gemma Beel Everything, some staff too, hes a rescue ive had him since april 2013 x

Hes a medium sized dog

Shay Kelly How would you really know what supplements your individual dog required ? Denise

O'Moore

Cat Lane Kim, probably not wrong - that's a fairly wide question and there are certainly cases wherein

fat/fattyacid supplementation can be really good. It does depend on the dog and you can certainly overdo fat,

resulting in anything from diarrhea to pancreatitis. You might think of it in a twofold way; total dietary fat, and fatty

acid content. If this is getting technical let me know.

Sara Nylund Quick question about diet for tripawds (not cancer sufferer) if ok? If in this case she is

on a high quality no grain feed with added glucose supplements, should we consider looking into anything else to

give her an optimal chance of good health for as long as possible?

Kim Carnell no its fine I love this subject and did a lot of studying on types of diet.

Cat Lane Gemma, the condition I am thinking of primarily affects bull terriers and is not likely to be related

here. Do you feed a commercial or home made diet?

Roz Latchman I have a dog with severe seasonal allergies. He's seeing a veterinary dermatologist

and doing immunotherapy. The only nutrition talk has been a suggestion he may need to be on a special

veterinary formula down the line.

What I'm wondering is: Is there anything I should add--or, alternately, avoid--in his diet to help assist in

skin/overall health?

Cat Lane Ok, Kim, I just sometimes feel people's eyes glaze over, lol

Kim Carnell not mine

Cat Lane Denise O'Moore I am sending out for caffeine...

Denise O'Moore Sorry Cat - I did say this was a good topic...make mine a double!

Gemma Beel He eats chappie biscuits and is exercised well and plays a lot, just has this mad

obsession with his tail, sometimes for attention and others for no reason at all and its hard to get him to stop i

was wondering if it could be food or if i should look into getting a behaviourist?

Andrea Evans hi I have a stubborn patterdale cross who refuses to eat nothing but wagg he is

healthy ,we changed the flavour of wagg he is getting and he is quite happy but can I supplement him with

anything just to make sure he is getting everything he needs as he refuses any other foods be it wet or dry and

he was weaned onto Tesco puppy dry food thanks

Kim Carnell Cat would you say it is ok to add seaweed powder to the dogs diet to add vits and

minerals again a bit of a wide question as some say not and some do

Cat Lane Shay Kelly - your question was "how do you know what supplements are needed?" and thats a

great one. I'd first separate them into the essentials we would add to a home made diet, and then anything extra

we might add into an already balanced recipe. The essentials are calculated just by a few simple formulas- the

dogs weight, and then we compare what they need at that weight to what is in the recipe. I persoanlly add only

what is missing- usually calcium, zinc, maybe iodine and D3, etc.

Cat Lane It's a little formulation but I teach it to people all the time.

Kim Carnell Cat do you see dare I mention it dogs with diet related behavioural problems

Cat Lane Now if you mean - what to add to an already balanced diet? For me that really gets into the

individual dog - age, activity level, health history etc. These are not so much "needs" as supportive - you know,

joint supplements, fish oils, probiotics.

Annik Vuffray What is your advise concerning adding Zilkène in the "avarege" stressed puppy

towards the world diet? ( without a strict diagnosis of anxiety or bigger anxiety driven issues)

Jordan Levine Can feeding raw cause high protein levels, high pH and struvite crystals in a

urinalysis? My girls on TOTW Prairie and gets supplemented with raw and the vet is saying it's the raw..

Denise O'Moore Kim - Micha asked something similar earlier - regarding diet / behaviour. It may have

already been answered.

Cat Lane Ok I'm trying to do these in order

Fran Hill has a question about zinc –

Denise O'Moore Annik - depending on where you live Zilkene is by perscription only - do yo mean after a

visit to a vet?

Jackie McBrearty hi Cat I have an 8 year old lab retriever, she's a guide dog. I have her on a joint

care food but want to know is there suplaments i can give her to maintain her joints. she is very active and does

not have a weight problem. Denise O'Moore Button

Justin Palazzo-Orr Hi cat thanks for your time

Annik Vuffray Denise O'Moore, i live in switzerland, and we can add Zilkène without prescription...

Cat Lane so basically, with zinc, it has a relationship to other minerals, right? They all interact, or most of

them anyway. Zinc and copper IDEALLY we want to feed in a 1:10 ratio - and not use a lot of phytate in the

diet(although soaking can greatly reduce the phytate). I almost always supplement with zinc, whether it's a raw or

cooked diet but JUST to the RA, the recommended level

Cat Lane And I always supplement with E, too - natural VitaminE, not synthetic

Denise O'Moore Ok Thanks Annik - will make sure Cat get's to your question

Shay Kelly I just feed Skinners complete and meat scraps, am I a bad person? LOL

Cat Lane If a nutrient is hard to get up to the RA without feeding a lot of a food, say liver(which then amps

up the copper and phosphorus) I just supplement. I mean these are really minimal things we are adding, but they

make a huge difference over time

Annik Vuffray So Vit E natural...how?

Cat Lane I give my 85 pound dog 100 mgs of zinc per week, for example

Annik I just mean the supplement form needs to be natural, not synthetic - it will say on the label.

Denise O'Moore Thanks Jackie will keep eye out for answer.

Fran Hill Thanks. What are early signs of vitamin E or zinc deficiencies?

Jason Currie Cat I know you must get this a lot but do you have some pointers on evaluating complete

dry food labels ? and if there are any red flags to look out for ?

Cat Lane I'm looking up Zilkene as I don't know it! can you send me an ingredient list?

Jordan Levine What are your opinions on a "complete" supplement like Nupro Silver? Denise

O'Moore

Denise O'Moore Will find it for you now Cat.

Kim Carnell is it not a milk protein

Anna Patfield Zylkene is casein

Annik Vuffray ok...seems that we have very different drugs (at large) cultures and availabilities...I feel

frustrated, because nutrition is such an important point, being it in human and animals.

Cat Lane Jordan LEvine - I think you are next. Can adding a lot of extra protein to a high protein kibble

create issues? Well, sure...depends on what proteins you are adding - and the dog of course. What are you

adding?

Sara Nylund Denise O'Moore I think maybe my question about maintaining tripawd might overlap

with Jackie's question?

Jordan Levine Chicken(whole and just meat), liver, kidney, pancreas, pork rib bones, turkey(whole

and meat), Green tripe occasionally. I tend to do BARF ratios

Denise O'Moore Cat Zylkene details in pm for you.

Cat Lane Andrea Evans - I don't know that brand of food - if people want me to look at a product please

send a link? Andrea I have a blog entry on enhancing a kibble diet, might be helpful for

you;http://thepossiblecanine.wordpress.com/.../enhancing-a.../

Enhancing a Kibble Diet

thepossiblecanine.wordpress.com So, with about 25 topics in the drafts folder and a bunch of assignments to mark..

Andrea Evans ok thanks Cat Lane wagg is a dry food xx

Cat Lane I think enhancing a kibble diet should be A) personalized! and B ) variable. In other words, if

your dog has had oxalate stones, avoid adding oxalate rich foods(obvious one there)...but bear in mind the great

impact nutrients can have on health conditions.And try not to use the same foods all the time; I think the blog

entry covers that...

Who are we up to?

Denise O'Moore There is a question by Jackie McBrearty - I'll post it for you now Cat Lane

- Jackie McBrearty: hi Cat I have an 8 year old lab retriever, she's a guide dog. I have her on a joint care food

but want to know is there suplaments i can give her to maintain her joints. she is very active and does not have a

weight problem

Jason Currie Cat about 10 years ago I got the shock of my life when visiting a kennel !! they had a mound

of tripe with maggots crawling about in it !! they were adamant it was great for the dogs ?

Denise O'Moore Jordan Levine asked What are your opinions on a "complete" supplement like Nupro

Silver?

Cat Lane Roz Latchman - honestly with the kind of scenario you present there are some commonalities

and many variables. I often put a dog like yours on a novel ingredient home made diet, if we can; and use herbs

and food choices to help balance the immune system, "cool him off" so to speak. This is a process, I can't say

there is one diet or herb that addresses it - with my atopic clients it's a journey for sure. I have a core toolkit and

then adjust as i see how things are working with the individual dog.

Kim Carnell I was informed that meat or meat meal should be in the top for your inredients for pet

food

Denise O'Moore Cat one other question from earlier - Cat I know you must get this a lot but do you have

some pointers on evaluating complete dry food labels ? and if there are any red flags to look out for ? Jason

Cat Lane Ok - Jackie - yes indeed, I can make several suggestions.First, you might think about a fatty

acid supplement - fish oils are very popular, and can be a real asset in reducing inflammatory processes. Use a

fish body oil, not liver oil, and always add a little extra dietary VitaminE when you increase fatty acids. That's one

thing you might consider along with the joint supplement.

I am still a believer in glucosamine, despite the debate. I start my guys on it about 5 years old(I have really

active dogs, too). And dietary enzymes can help reduce inflammation of course. That's kind of the core

prevention I use.

Jason Currie - that's just gross. LOL! I love tripe and always recommend it - maggots, not so much.

Jackie McBrearty thanks Cat and Denise O'Moore

Elly Micklewright A quick fix for a dog to gain weight?

Annik Vuffray Cate Lane, is this gorgeous RR puppy in the picture actually living with you?

Denise O'Moore Cat Lane nearly up on previous questions - only two still to go from earlier - Jordan

Levine asked What are your opinions on a "complete" supplement like Nupro Silver? and Jason asked about red

flags of food packages.

Cat Lane Jordan Levine - sorry, my pc is actually acting up, sigh. Nupro is not a supplement I've used in

years, but I don't think of it as adequate at all, if you are thinking, just to add to a basic recipe? Not at all. I'd have

to revisit the label (and we might think about some of these analysis questions , we can take them to Animal

Herbalist, my FB group and ask there at our leisure?)

Kim Carnell derivatives are bad don't want those in the food

seaweed powder as a supplement I asked earlier

Cat Lane Elly, I calculate the dog's calorie requirement range and contrast it with what the owner is

actually feeding - if it's low, really yes, just increase total energy. If it's NOT low, maybe parasites?

Shay Kelly Lots of small feeds or one main meal, what do you think is best?

Cat Lane Annik Vuffray - oh yes, that's the love of my heart right there, Manly Dan.

Kim Carnell chicken wings then yes or no

Cat Lane Shay Kelly I personally feed three times a day, but I'm ok with twice and a snack before bed.

- seaweed/kelp has it's place, but only (IMO) if the diet is low in iodine. And make sure it's a CLEAN source!

There is some concern about toxins in seaweed, as with fish, sadly.

Christine Holmes Spriggs Bennett if we wanted to refer a client to a nutritionist, where could we find a

list of those in our areas?

Cat Lane Don't overdo iodine.

Annik Vuffray Ok, so Love from Becca to Manly Dan and thank you from me to you!

Justin Palazzo-Orr Thank you all. Off to work.

Cat Lane you're most welcome!

Cat Lane Christine Holmes Spriggs BennettI don't know, really. I work online as does my colleague Monica

Segal, and outside of us, there's a few I can find, a couple I trained!but in person, I don't really know....

Is there anything I've missed? I dont mind a little extra time, or people can join my group and continue there if

that's better for you Denise.

Christine Holmes Spriggs Bennett oh, you do online consults? that's great to know!

Cat Lane Someone asked about adding a BARF style diet to a high protein kibble...still here?

Jordan Levine Me. Again. Sorry!!

Cat Lane Yes, I do consults based on a questionnaire and email

communication. http://www.thepossiblecanine.com/services.htm

Jason Currie Its been Brill having you with us Cat don't know how u have kept up !

Denise O'Moore Hi Jordan - you got a question for Cat?

Cat Lane Jason, I do this all day anyway, LOL!

Jordan Levine I'm realizing I'm just going to have to pay for a consultation after my girl goes to an

internest Weds as I have too many issues. lol No, I was the one who asked about BARF and kibble

Cat Lane There are service options - some people just need a phone chat, others with complex issues do

benefit most from the full two week service.

Kim Carnell I did ask chicken wings or not don't answer if you don't want to I know this is a difficult

one

Denise O'Moore ADMIN NOTE: Hi all Cat be staying a bit longer to answer as many questions as

humanly possible! Thank you Cat. We will be posting this interview in our files for future ref, and we will be listing

Cat's new online courses

Cat Lane So, as I guess we need to wind up, if you didn't get a satisfactory answer, maybe drop by my

Page and ask away..

https://www.facebook.com/ThePossibleCanine

Peter Banks Is "ANY" kibble nutritionally "good" for dogs since most contain so much filler?

Cat Lane Kim Carnell - I'm not sure what you mean - are chicken wings good to feed? Again, some dogs do very

well with the raw whole chicken parts and others don't. You need to monitor your own dog from a place of

objectivity! not attachment to the diet - and if it's not going well, be willing to change. That's my takeaway

message, always. Do what works.

kim, just be aware that chicken is not in itself nutritionally complete and you will need organs, for one thing - a

better source of several minerals...it's only a starting place.

Denise O'Moore Cat Peter Banks has a question just above.

Eileen Stephenson Thank you Cat Lane and Denise O'Moore. Have liked the page so you will see

me there

Kim Carnell I feed as part of a balanced diet mine get the full works carcasses organs, meat etc

Martha Hoffman HI! Since dogs evolved to have their main diet as human poop, other animal poop,

leftover bones and whatever rats or stuff they could catch...and occasionally the parts of animals that the humans

do not consider edible...and in the third world, they still do...: I am thinking that someone should do a nutritional

analysis of human poop.Ttrue, dogs want to eat all kinds, but cat and human is unfortunately their favorite. I'm

not suggesting feed them that; it would be unhealthy for them, with the amount of meds that we all take. But

looking at evolution...why not figure out the nutritional balance of the actual diet they evolved on? Raymond

Coppinger told me that the prime benefit that dogs gave humans as they evolved was cleaning up poop,

providing edible puppies, and providing fur.

Christine Holmes Spriggs Bennett Cat, how often do you work with dogs that are allergic to one

form of protein or another? what are some of the signs that might indicate this? I'm beginning to wonder if it's not

more common than I originally thought..

Cat Lane Peter Banks - so, a complex question, and a good one. What I think is, yes we have many far

better dry foods available now than ever before, that's a no-brainer, and for sure I see dogs doing much better on

these foods than on the cereal-based crappy ones.Are they ever truly optimal? In a sense, only of they are

compared to an inadequate, thrown-together home made diet. But all things being equal, I can ever see kibble as

optimal, only better and worse formulas.I think a premium kibble with added fresh foods can work, but a properly

balanced home made raw or cooked diet is always preferable.

Cat Lane Christine Holmes Spriggs Bennett - about 30% of my caseload at any given time is food

intolerance/atopy. PM me...?

Peter Banks So ... obviously not a "complete" dietary answer as the manufacturers would have you

believe?

Jason Currie Cat im not sure if you have already covered this but what courses do you offer ? and how

long do they take to complete on average ?

Denise O'Moore Cat's courses and articles are listed in this link http://www.facebook.com/l.php...

Shay Kelly What do you think are the very worst things you can feed a dog (apart from Butchers)

Micha Michlewicz What's Butchers?

Leon Coombs Why do you think some dogs eat their own faeces. ?

Cat Lane Martha Hoffman - my response to this is, or the short version anyway;I don't deal with feral dogs

or mythical dogs or prototypes or wolves. I deal with individuals within a species, who have specific histories and

profiles... And working with them that way reveals nutritional and metabolic idiosyncracies that far outstrip this

generic thinking "dogs are wolves" etc. When someone brings me a teacup poodle with multiple food

intolerances, a heart murmur, and Cushing's disease, I am very far from thinking about wolves, you know? That's

an extreme (but not uncommon) example of the work I do, and it has taught me not to be overly concerned with

what protypical canines ate. It's not that relevant outside of the basics of anatomy and digestion, you know?

Denise O'Moore Micha - Butchers is a brand name of a food available in UK and Ireland.

Cat Lane Does that help? I am trying to put a lot of ideas into a paragraph here.

Shay Kelly - well outside of the obvious, toxic stuff and cheap, grain-based brands? Too much of any one thing. I

believe in balance.

Peter Banks Butchers is a misnomer for commercial tinned-pet food that masquerades as being

edible!

Fran Hill Have you written any books on nutrition?

Cat Lane Fran Hill - not yet but it - and the herbal - are coming for sure.

Annik Vuffray As a force free positive way of life adept, I do use many treats...am making them

myself...different ones: organic liver, sardines, chicken/turcky steemed, local ham,with little add of pumpkin/

sweet potatoes, egg yolk, rye flour the less the better...any evident for you advise for homecooking treats?

Roz Latchman How long does it typically take for you to tailor a homemade diet plan to a client's

dog's individual needs?

Jason Currie Great Question Roz

Cat Lane I like to rotate treats as you are doing - I avoid rye(gluten) and ham( salted pork, I mean) but all

the rest are great. I make really simple cookies with gluten-free flour, tinned salmon and eggs - and I use beef

heart a fair bit. Not too much liver!

Martha Hoffman Thanks Cat! I'm thinking of modern day dogs also, but more like the street/village

dogs that either are adopted as pets, or breeds that a few generations back were living this way. I'm sure there

must be some adaptation in their genetics toward digesting the diet they recently lived on, whether in their lifetime

or their recent ancestors. I've had people state that Huskies do better on fish protein, that UK breeds are adapted

to digest oats and potatoes...do you see these differences?

Cat Lane Roz - I am booking the second week of march, is that what you mean?

Annik Vuffray well, Rye has no gluten...

Denise O'Moore Good question above from Roz Latchman regarding the tailoring of diet plans Cat.

Jordan Levine Rye does have gluten...

Cat Lane Martha Hoffman - I really don't see it much, but that may be in part because 90% of the work I do is

therapeutic nutrition, so the dog has unique issues they present with. I have for example, seen many Huskies and

Mals NOT do well with fish at all, but whether that is breed-related or due to their conditions, again it's a matter of

pragmatism; if it's not helping we do something else.

Shay Kelly How can we know its safe to feed a dog raw meat when that dog could have come from

50 generations of dogs fed on cooked scraps and cooked commercial dog foods?

Roz Latchman Cat, I don't mean when you're available. Though that does answer another question,

if anyone is wondering! I mean: How long does it take you to tailor a diet plan for an individual once you're

available and begin work on that specific case?

Peter Banks Shay ... I'm not sure it's much the same as your grandparents and parents eating fast

food every day of their lives and all a sudden you like "proper nutrition".

Cat Lane Well, honestly I don't think it works quite that way. I can't tell you the number of dogs I've

transitioned onto raw or cooked diets, that the owner barely recognizes them a few weeks later. I'm sure many

here have seen this as well.

Denise O'Moore Cat - all of this session appears to have discussed diet - any chance you can quickly tell use

about your work with Herbs - in particular herbal nervines?

Annik Vuffray Yep! would like so much to hear

Cat Lane Roz - the calculations are pretty quick for me now! But the assessment of the case - it's a long

Intake form - and the writing up a Strategy plan for the owner is intense. usually I start at 7 am-ish and get the

first protocol - diet, strategy/resources and letter in to my client by noon. And that's just the starting point; then I

answer questions as they start to transition the dog, and tweak the recipe if needed, and then develop others

once i have seen how the dog does.All in all, my Diet for Health Issue service entails about 8-10 hours on my

part. Is that more in line with what you were asking?

Ok - one minute break and I'll be glad to talk about nervines. Any specifics?

Peter Banks First question ... what is "nervine"?

Denise O'Moore Cat you go take a break and I'll fill in a few bits.

Roz Latchman Thanks, Cat! I was really curious how it works on your end and that does a great job

of giving me a peek.

Cat Lane Ok - we often think about nervines as "herbs that relax" but the broader definition is any

herb/herbal constituent that impacts on the nervous system

Denise O'Moore This is from Cat's site, have a quick read while she takes a short break: We call any

herb whose Actions affect the CNS (central nervous system) a “nervine“. In popular usage, a nervine more or

less equates with a sedative – a relaxing herb that helps your dog calm down. And to be fair, some of them do

exactly that – excel at that! But, to understand the term more fully, and develop the formulation that offers optimal

support for an individual dog, we need to take a deeper look. Nervines are classed as stimulating as well as

relaxing (think:coffee! now that affects the nervous system) and also as, tonic (or trophorestorative, meaning they

act over time to balance and heal the system) hypnotic, anti-spasmodic, and adaptogen. So, the best way to

define a nervine is a herb that affects the nervous system; and to be more precise, classify them further

according to just how they do that. While we humans use herbal nervines in a wide variety of ways, the most

popular usage for dogs is generally to help them calm down, overcome anxiety, and maintain a peaceful outlook

in the face of situations that stress them.

Cat Lane so, caffeine is a nervine, a stimulating one! Most of the time people are interested in what we might call

relaxing or sedating nervines

and I think the article details a bit about that, how many herbs can be calming for a dog, situationally, but not

truly address the underlying issue

Micha Michlewicz Do you have any experience with milk protein for anxiety? I'm sorry, I don't recall

the names of any particular brands.

Cat Lane for dogs who don't deal with stress, we might think about an adaptogen, or a trophorestorative -

plants that address the inability to deal with stress, or adrenal fatigue, or reactivity - on an ongoing basis, not just

calm the dog down

Peter Banks Ahh like tincture of valerine to calm dogs (don't give to cats though - opposite effect)

Annik Vuffray Zilkène Micha Michlewicz

Cat Lane To work with an anxious dog it's the same for me as for you guys, all the trainers out there -

have to address it on all the levels. And this can mean lowering protein..it can mean experimenting with herbal

restoratives, and it always means working with a behaviourist/trainer

Micha Michlewicz Do you have an article that discusses these herbs, Cat?

Thanks, Annik!

Cat Lane Is that helpful?

Micha Michlewicz Yes.

Annik Vuffray That's not a quick fix and gives you more credit- if any needed- in my opinion

Cat Lane I start small dose - gentle - always test herbs individually in case of allergy - build the

formula.Some anxious dogs really improve with just Passionflower, so if thats all we need I don't add more stuff,

you know? And some, we keep adjusting and rotating herbs ovr time. It's not a generic thing at all.

Denise O'Moore Dont forget to check out Cat's linkhttp://thepossiblecanine.wordpress.com/cat-lane/

Cat Lane Peter Banks - dogs too can get that opposite effect and it is NOT pleasant! valerian I use either

in a formula or small dose, to be safe.I love california poppy and passionflower for many.

So, if we are winding down, can I just plug my new course. <g>? It's a labour of love and it's starting in March -

covers cats and HUMANS as well(imagine).

Roz Latchman I've been trying to split my attention between this chat, Cat's site and FB business

page. Lol.

Cat Lane LOL, Roz you are faster than I am!

Roz Latchman Am I? I keep having to play catch-up! Lol!

Leslie Hays Richards RE Valarian Root - I used it with an uber hyper foster I had and it made him

BONKERS for hours! It definitely worked as a stimulant on him!

Annik Vuffray Wow! a whole field I would like to know more...will definitely need to get in touch with

you...i work with Bach flowers since more than 20 years for humans and now since 2 years with animals too. But

I do understand that the herbs are working differently...I live in Switzerland where we have a seculiar culture with

herbal treatments...

Cat Lane I might close off by saying, I am really passionate about the environment as well as companion

animals, and I feel that if we use diet and herbs to support health, we protect our waters form all that veterinary

drug - we save money over time - there is no downside. So education is really important to me, because if people

don't know quite how to achieve results with food and herbs they will not use them (and fair enough).

Denise O'Moore Roz Latchman we will have all links and copy of this chat in files later

Cat Lane So the courses are one way I can spread the word a bit, and have graduates carry an assured

measure of knowledge and confidence in THEIR usage, recommendations to clients etc. It's really the thing I love

doing the most.

Have a look. http://thepossiblecanine.wordpress.com/.../introduction.../

It's been a JOY to be here, I hope some of you found it helpful.

Kim Carnell have used homeopathic remedies for years now and love the results not a pill popper for

me or my dogs

Brilliant Cat when are you coming back

Roz Latchman Denise O'Moore Yes, I know. Thanks! I'm doing alright following along. It is

interesting reading at multiple sources at once, though!

Denise O'Moore ADMIN NOTE: Hi all - I'm back and yes we are now at the end of another fantastic guest

chat! We will be saving all this in our files, posting all Cat's courses and links later. So can I just say thank you for

your time Cat Lane, and a huge thank you to Jason and our admin group that helped put all this together .

Thanks to everyone who joined in and we (admin) hope you got got some great advice.

Cat Lane Thank you for inviting me, it was great fun!

Jason Currie Kim, Cat will need to re stock on coffee thanks Cat you have been brill learnt a lot !!

Kim Carnell Thank you Cat for spending your valuable time with us

thank you Denise O'Moore and Jason Currie for working so hard behind the scenes

Cat Lane I think I had three pots of tea, lol. And you are so welcome Jason and Dawn.

Roz Latchman This was very nice. I was looking forward to this chat more than any other I've seen

so far. Thanks to everyone involved in making it happen and for time committed.

Denise O'Moore ADMIN NOTE: ...good news this time! If anyone has any further questions for Cat

Lane you can post them here (tagging cat), pm Cat or email her through her pages linked above.

Erica Marshall coming in late I am curious to hear more about LOWERING protein to help with

anxiety. I have heard the opposite to be true in that it helps regulate insulin levels and such.

Kim Carnell was always taught to lower protein levels too

Denise O'Moore Great question Erica Marshall - would you like to pm Cat directly?

Cat Lane Erica - there is a place for raising it too, depends on the cause. Come by and chat

more: https://www.facebook.com/groups/AnimalHerbalist/

Denise O'Moore Thanks Cat!

Cat Lane Dan is going to be very annoyed if I don't get him out before dark, but please drop by the Page

or groups and we can continue.

Annik Vuffray Yes, Erica Marshall, In HUMANS it is shown that low index insuline diet ( saying +++

proteins) has influence in regluating normal levels of insuline, preventing diabetes 2 , and more over correlated

with psychoorganic dementias...but nothing is scientifically demonstrated in animals...