Abingdon Rough Rider Review

September 2012 Vol. LIV(54) no. 9 President – Norman Tuck

Vice President - Syd Saperstein

Activities Director Brian Sonner

Secty/Treas/Newsletter Editor- Allan Chalmers

Eminence Gris Bill Traill

WebMaster Rick Storms

56th

annual ARR/TCMG Conclave Friday thru Sunday September 7 - 9

We now have 21 rooms booked at the Narrow Gauge Inn . The ARR celebrants are:

Sanders, Storms, Marcottes, Shempps, Stobbes, Traill, Tucks, Sonners, Chalmers and Matlocks

Meeting point for the run there will be at the usual McDonald’s at Santa Rita Rd turnoff from Hwy 580

at the Pleasanton/Livermore line. We should leave there by 10 AM

As far as the Train ride goes, based on last time, we shouldn’t need reservations ahead, so those that

want to go can head over there on Saturday.

Our web site: www.abingdonroughriders.org

http://www.abingdonroughriders.org/

An advisory from our webmaster For those receiving the web version, remember, you can contact your esteemed officers by clicking the “About Us” link and

clicking on the name of the officer. This protects us from malefactors!

On the Events page, each month's event includes three icons. One is to email the host, one is a link to a google map that

shows the starting point of the run, and finally, one to show weather conditions. – Rick”

If you’d like to drop the printed version and read this on the web site let me know

Coming Events

September 7 – 9, 56th

Annual Conclave Narrow Gauge Inn

October 21, San Francisco Highlights & lunch at the Beach Chalet Norman

November 11 , San Francisco Dinner, Capp’s Corner, SF Syd Saperstein

December 15, Holiday Dinner in Healdsburg at the Taylor’s

**********Other appropriate events – more added as they become known***********

there is a new Fall Classic British car tour and reception in Morgan Hill October 20 & 21

www.thebritishfallclassic.com

Bolinas BBQ

Another of the many memorable events at the home of Susan Frank and our late friend Phil. The event

was at the farmhouse, the barn being rented. We did have the pleasure of driving our wee cars thru the

trees to park on the grass.

Four TCs and an unnamed luxury

Japanese rice burner met at the

Spencer Ave turnoff. Terry Sanders

in the black beauty, Norman and

Brenda and Linda and I in TCs, as

well as Doug Ogden and Katy in

their TC, with Doug’s cousin Mary,

just back from doing veterinary duty with the army on the

Afghan Pakistan border (Some good stories I bet!). Mary

hopped into Terry’s car – Terry commented that Mary

was used to danger, so this should work out! – and Jim

Hill motored along in the unmentionable car. We ran up

to Rock Springs and walked into the Mountain Home

Theatre, where musicals have been produced and enjoyed

for nearly 100 years. There we sat on the rock seats and

absorbed some sun, before heading over Ridgecrest Road

to the Fairfax / Bolinas road for six miles of driver upper

body exercise. We arrived at Susan’s to find the Storms,

http://www.thebritishfallclassic.com/

Sonners and Taylors. Arriving at the same time was

Danica Remy, the daughter of our founder Lucien Remy

and an honorary member of the club, in her very spiffy

Austin Healey. She was accompanied by a young lad,

Clyde (haven’t heard that name in a while). Eric Baker

arrived in his ZB Magnette a bit later.

The weather was cooperative and we enjoyed burgers and

dogs. I drank one of Eric’s Olde Spotted Hen beers, other

libations were taken care of and we set off for home and

one of the best days ever heading back thru

Stinson Beach on Hwy 1. It was

spectacular! You could see forever. I did

think about the aged steering bits on TCs

while looking straight down to the ocean, but

was confident my Datsun steering box would

get us home.

More pictures on the web site.

Al Moss update - From Jim Silva

the Al Moss MGTC is returning to its former home in Goleta, CA the

new owner is Robert Goldman; CEO of Moss Motors.

I talked with Al this AM and he is happy with the results of the auction

($61K) and feels good that Robert will give THE TC the respect and

use it deserves.

Also from Jim - on the T-ABC list:

Due to Al's recent medical issues I was honored to deliver his TC to the

RM Auction in Monterey. I was able to take THE TC out for a drive around the streets of Monterey,

something I will never forget. I was immediately impressed with the handling and smoothness with

which the TC drove. This car has traveled more than 113,000 miles, raced and rallied with spirit and is

one of the best mannered TCs I have ever driven. This is testimony to Al's careful maintenance and

knowledge of the MG. It also makes me want to rethink all the heim joint-datsun steering bits I have

attached to my own TC.

As I was handing the car off to the Auction people a young man out walking his dog stopped to ask what

year the MG was, seems he was just starting the restoration of his father's MGTD. I asked him where he

was going to get the parts for the job and he said that he had just gotten a catalog from Moss Motors. I

told him the history of the car and how it is the reason that Moss Motors was created. You could see his

enthusiasm grow by the minute. The day was a full circle of emotions for me.

Returning the TC to Goleta is the way it should be. Well done to the Goldmans!

Don’t forget, Al is having a tough time with a brain tumor and would enjoy a card from his friends.

His address is 1015 Soldier’s Pass, Sedona, AZ 86366

Bob Kramer’s Austin A40 is still for sale – call him at (760) 466 7713 home 760 992 6877 is cell

Nancy Shane Dan Shockey, former ARR president and his wife Nancy moved back to Illinois several years ago, but

retained their membership. Nancy is now seriously ill and Dan would like ARR folks to keep her in

your thoughts and prayers.

Jim Fleming’s TC is for sale

“My 1948 MG TC 7014 for sale. I have owned this

TC since 1971. It is the 10th and last MG T series I

have owned since my first TD in 1959. As you can

see the present configuration is for cool running in

the south west. I have all the original sheet metal for

the car plus two foot lockers full of spares. The car

has been in storage without fuel and battery for

about 5 years. It was running fine when stored. At

the last restoration a full new Moss interior was

installed and the body timbers replaced. The tank

was boiled out and holes patched. I also have a NIB

factory crankshaft in original cosmoline that goes

with the car. The top and tonneau are fairly new and I have a new Moss top that was never installed.

I believe $20,000 is a fair price for everything. Thanks, Jim Fleming 480-

234-6911.” The car is in Phoenix.

http://us.mc1848.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jim.h.fleming@gmail.com

Leaving Your Mark: An MG Tradition I always enjoy the discovery of a new stamping or marking on an obscure part of the TC. Most all parts will normally have some visual stamping done by the manufacturer to help identify a specific part and or a date of manufacturer. However, when the parts were actually installed on the production line at Abingdon, the workers would sometimes add their own little something to “leave their mark”. Here are some examples. Were these worker’s or manufacturer’s marks? “BERRY” – Stamped on rear springs. “Horse head” Logo – stamped on front spring leaf. “WM” or “WML” – stamped on the pivot pin of front spring to chassis. Single punch mark – stamped at each machine screw of the front axle buffer plate. A few years ago I was told of the sighting of the MG logo stamped on the head of the front engine mount bolt. However, I was skeptical as I had never seen one. A few weeks ago I was archiving some old rusty parts in my “original items” box. As I threw a couple of engine bolts into the box, I remembered I should look for the fabled markings. Pretty rusty, but wait, maybe something. I gave them a quick touch of sandpaper and there is was – the MG Logo. The logo was significant in that is was exactly the same size and definition of the MG logo on the gas cap trigger. I was well familiar with it because I have had this same hand stamp made for my company to manufacturer the TC gas cap triggers. So I had to assume that someone on the production line came across this hand stamp and stuck it in their pocket. And then when the chassis’s went down the line this unknown worker “left his mark”. Now some 65 years later his mark has been discovered and although the worker is unknown his legacy lives on. Today the replacement front engine bolts being sold by From The Frame Up have been hand stamped by me with the same MG logo to carry on the MG tradition. And hopefully after another 65 years someone will rediscover these and say, “Oh, that was Doug and he left his mark”. Please let me know if you discover any other items of interest on the TC. Doug Pelton, doug@fromtheframeup.com

From USA Today, August 22

Gorgeous MG has roots in U.S., England and Italy

It's Italian. It's English. And it's all brought together by a Midwesterner. It's a 1953 Arnolt MG restored to perfection by Jim Silva of Castro Valley, Calif. We caught up to him and the car at the Concorso Italiano car show last weekend, which attracted hundreds of owners and fanciers of Italian cars, near Monterey, Calif. The Arnolt was designed by Italy's Bertone and was built on a British MG TD chassis by a Chicago industrialist who wanted to sell it in the U.S., Silva explained. "I've been an MG collector for years," Silva told Drive On as spectators ogled his beauty. "I fell in love with the design."

It took a lot of work to the restore the car, including changing the color from turquoise to a unique shade of red that was true to the original. But it was worth it. Among those attending the event was Lilli Bertone, widow of the Italian design house's founder, and she may have gotten a gander at Silva's pride and joy.

(Ed.note – Terry also showed his Arnolt)

Rick Storms’ excellent adventure with Kjell Qvale:

Rick’s car was

used as a promo

picture for a new

book out about

the 93 year old

founder of British

Motors, Kevin

Nelson. It will be

published in

October.

http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/drive-on/2012/08/22/arnoltx-large.jpg

Rough Riders Revealed - Interviews with

Norman Tuck

Lunch With TA Terry Sanders

Quinn's Restaurant, Oakland, August 14

TS Norman wants to know how many cars I have.

Let's see, I have five MGs, and an Alfa, plus a Ford

pickup truck and Cindy's Mercedes SUV.

the MGs are; a 1934 MG NA Four Seater, a 1938 TA

Roadster, a 1947 TC, a 1955 TF 1500,

and a 1952 Arnolt TD.

NT Which is your favorite?

TS Which is my favorite? Ha Ha, That's a hard question.

I guess the TA is my favorite, because that is the first one I restored. It took me 5 years.

I've driven it all over the West; Durango, Calgary for a GOF, Whistler for a GOF, South many times.

The nicest driving car that I have is the TF 1500 that really came out well, it has independent front suspension.

The TC, the old black TC is also a really nice driving car. Thanks to Norman it has VW steering.

NT What's the favorite car that you've ever had?

TS The favorite car that I've ever had. Well, 1948 Cadillac that I had for a month.

I can't remember if it was a fastback or a four door. I got it in a trade for a Checker that I had

for a while in Pittsburg. I used it for canoe camping. It had holes in the floor and you could see

the road from the inside, on both sides, from the interior. But the old Stove Bolt 6 just kept on running.

But my favorite car is still the TA, and the TF.

NT What about the car that you restored with Phil Frank.

TS The SA Tickford that Phil Frank and I restored over a 12-year period also had to be one of my favorites. It came

out so well, so nice. But it was a monster to take care of.

NT What was the first car that you ever owned?

TS My first car was a TD Black with red undersides.

When I was a Sophomore in College I got into a poker game with a bunch

of guys, and one of them had a TD, and he lost big to me. He didn't want

the TD because it smoked so bad. He owed me 300 bucks, and he said, "if

you give me 200 bucks I'll give you this TD. So I borrowed 200 bucks from

my mother and I bought the TD. That was in about 1957.

So every fall when I went back to college I would pull the collapsed piston out, put new rings on it, and drive it

for another year. Until I graduated and decided to get married and we traded it in on a black MGA Coupe, with

green leather, kind of unusual.

NT What's the first car you restored?

TA The first real restoration was the TA that I have now. The car had been imported from England to New Orleans.

It had received a typical 60's type British restoration. Skimmed with Bondo all over, and the Bondo had cracked

like an alligator. The bottom panels had been wrapped

in aluminum, the inner wheel wells in the back were

made out of Paper Mache', and the original engine had

been swapped for a 1,275 Midget engine. The car had

sat in a carport for 17 years, and everything rusted.

When I tried to lift the body tub off of the frame it

broke in half. Even the angle irons had rusted. When I

finally got busy I ordered the body tub, rear fenders, a

gas tank, doors and a scuttle from Naylor Brothers in

England. I got them shipped back with a bunch of

BART motors that we were buying from England.

NT Are you an engineer?

TS Yes, I'm an electrical engineer. I later changed from pure engineering into project management. I worked as an

engineer for Westinghouse to start with, mostly on subway cars. I did a lot of work in the New York area on a

system called PATH.

I began testing the prototype of the BART propulsion system in New York. Eventually the technology got

transferred to BART. I was responsible for everything on a BART car except for the body.

It was an exciting career. There never was a day that I didn't want to go to work. I know a lot of people hate

their job or their bosses. I always had pretty good bosses, and I always wanted to go to work.

In the end I was mostly a salesman selling for Westinghouse. The last big project that I worked on was the San

Francisco Airport People Mover, where we got into a big fight with Mitsubishi, a Japanese company, which is

probably why I don't like Norman's Miata.

I'm still doing consulting work.

NT You were born in Louisiana. Were you the first in your family to go to college?

TS My father had gone to Southeastern College for one semester, I think. He was a football player. He had a

scholarship, but the war came along and he dropped out. I don't know much about that story. He died when I

was 13. When I was 14 I had a kidney disease that laid me up for a year.

My uncle was the principal of my high school. One day he got me out of class and said, "Come on, we're going

to take a ride."

We got in his car and drove down to Hammond, Louisiana, about 30 miles south, to Southeastern College, and

he took me into the Office of Vocational Rehabilitation.

It turned out that the guy in the office gave me a bunch of aptitude tests. After the tests he said, "Son you got the

highest score on these tests that I have ever seen. We're going to send you to L.S.U."

I was completely shocked. "What do you mean, L.S.U.?"

We're going to give you a full scholarship and $50 a month spending money, and you’re going to go to college,

and you're going to become an engineer.

On the drive back, my uncle said, " That man played football with your father at Southeastern." So there were

obviously some strings pulled.

NT What town in Louisiana are you from?

TS I'm from Kentwood, Louisiana. It has 2,500 people, its 100 miles north of New Orleans, and it’s the home of

Britney Spears.

NT Before you won a TD in the poker game, did you have any desire to own British Cars?

TS I did, because when I was in high school I was building high fidelity Heath Kits and Dyna Kits for people in

town. It was the time that Hi Fi and stereo came out. One of my customers was an artist guy, and he had a Jag

XK 120, which I thought was the slickest thing I had ever seen.

He was the son of the druggist in town. He ended up running the drug store after he died. I think the Jag was

part of his image.

He drank a bottle of 10 High Bourbon every night. He eventually died of cirrhosis of the liver. I still have some

of his artwork. I don't think he knew anything about cars.

My father ran a Texaco station in town. My uncle was the Firestone Tire dealer. Our good friend ran the

parts store, and I had a part time job at the only radio/television repair shop in town. My uncle, the High School

principal, was a ham radio operator, and he got me into ham radio, and I passed my general class test and got

my ham license. I did ham radio quite a bit. This was all before cars.

It was a lovely little town to grow up in. Wonderful friends, typical high school sock-hops and all that. I

played the base drum in the Marching Band. And when I went to college I got dragooned into playing the bass

drum in the Military Marching Band, and then the College Marching Band, which turned into a hell of a lot of

work.

NT What's your favorite thing about the collector car hobby?

TS I really enjoy restoring these cars, bringing them back to life, seeing them run again, rescuing them from the

grave. And, I enjoy touring and driving them. My wife, Cindy, does too.

She is enthusiastic, and she loves the TF that I did for her as a wedding present. She doesn't like my Arnolt

because it has a top on it, and she enjoys having her hair blow in the wind. She is one of the few women I have

met that doesn't mind having her hair blow in the wind.

NT If you could have any car, what would you want to have?

TS That's a hard question. I'm not sure I would want anything different from what I have.

Every article I read has something about Ferraris. I'm not sure that I would take a Ferrari if someone gave it to

me. It's such a complicated piece of machinery. It must be a nightmare to take care of. You've got to be rich.

I like the older cars. I wouldn't mind having a Blower Bentley.

I prefer the pre-war cars. I like the older MGs. A lot of my friends in the Sorry Safari Touring Society have laid

up their older cars and now drive MGBs. I just say, "Why?"

NT What is the Sorry Safari?

TS It's one of the three MG clubs in the Bay Area (MG Owners Cub, The Sorry Safari, and the Rough Riders), and

the one I joined before discovering the Rough Riders. They promptly anointed me the Newsletter Editor. I've

been the Newsletter Editor for more than 25 years. Like Allan, I try not to do any writing myself. I put in what

other people write.

The Sorry Safari is all MGs, except that we have some members that also have other things. We tour at least

once a month. We get around 20 cars on a tour.

NT Are there any Rough Riders in the Club?

TS A few. Syd Saperstein has been the Treasurer for longer than I've

been the Editor. He recently said he wanted to quit. And they are

all in a dither about that.

All three MG Clubs in the Bay Area welcome everybody. People

can go on-line to find out about the events.

NT What about the sailing?

TS When I lived in Pittsburgh I owned a racing sailboat, a 505 (5.05

meters long) made in England. I learned to sail it on the Alleghany River. When you learn how to sail a 505 you

can pretty much sail anything. It is an unforgiving boat. The least little mistake will put you in the drink.

Cindy bought a Ranger 29, a 29-foot sailboat, and she just loves that boat. It's set up for cruising. It's very

comfortable for two people.

NT I understand that you are going to take the Arnolt to Monterey tomorrow.

TS We are going to take my Bertone bodied Arnolt to the Concorso Italiano. We're going to show the Bertone flag

at the event, where Bertone is the featured Marque, and hang out with some friends of ours. Jim Silva is also

taking his Arnolt down there.

NT Do you have any advice for Rough Riders?

TS I recommend the VW steering conversion.

There has been a thread on the T-ABC list in recent days about steering boxes. I switched over my TA and my

TC to VW steering boxes because of the beefy-ness of their drop arms (Pitman Arms). That little, tiny drop arm

on the TC has always worried me. You can magnaflux them, and hopefully catch any crack, but I'm too old to

have another wreck. The Bud Silver's kit has a much stronger drop arm.

The steering sector shaft is another weak point. Allan Chalmers had one of those break on him.

I'm also very wary about the steering balls. You dare not over-tighten them (Note. Terry had been involved in a

serious accident due to the breaking of a steering ball in his TA).

The conversion also makes the car much easier to steer and takes care of a lot of other problems that you might

have.

TC owners should also replace their taillights with LEDs, Ha Ha. (Note: TA Terry makes and sells LED

conversions for "D" tail lights, but Norman does not get a commission on sales resulting from this interview).

NT How do you feel about the judging of the cars?

TS I'm not into judging. How can you judge a car?

There are so many upgrades that we made throughout the years. Supposedly, safety items should not come into

it, but almost any modification could be argued as a safety item.

There are those that are hung-up on originality, and that is their thing. And there are those that are into show

cars, and that's their thing. I take no pleasure in going to shows anymore, and sitting around in the hot sun.

I'm doing the one in Monterey because Bertone is the featured marque. I'm hoping that our Bertone bodied TD

will get some respect down there. Unfortunately, it is overrun with the Ferrari guys and their draped-in-gold car

gals that are always fun to watch.

enjoy [driving] the cars. They are never going to drive like a modern car, and they are not supposed to.

NT What is your next project?

TS My next project is just maintaining the fleet, and perhaps selling off some of it, because I'm getting to the point

that I'm halfway to age 80. I don't know how much longer I can keep this up. Cleaning the wheels on the Arnolt

today half killed me.

NT How do you feel about the Rough Riders Club?

TS The Rough Riders Club seems to be getting some younger and enthusiastic members. The Sonners and the

Shemps seem to be great additions to the Club. For some reason we keep attracting younger people who are

inheriting their fathers cars and bringing them to the shows.

Allan does a great job of keeping the Club going and seeing to the details. And, as Norman knows, being the

President is no strain or pain (Terry has been elected president several times)

.

NT Is there anything else that you would like to see in the interview?

TS It's a great pleasure to belong to the Rough Riders, and to host the annual planning meeting.

When you retire from your working life and you don't have any hobbies or any other interests; my experience is

guys, especially, end up dead pretty soon. I'm overwhelmed with hobbies, and sailing, and cars. So, I guess I'm

blessed in that way.

And I have good friends. That's what it's all about. As they say, "It's the people."

TA Terry’s first TC, bought in 1962 for $400