2008 FDLE Investigation of Heather Walsh-Haney

On Tuesday, January 8, 2008, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement receivedinformation in reference to the possibility of someone having unlawful possession of humanremains. The person identified as being in possession of the remains is Forensic AnthropologistDr. Heather Walsh-Haney. Special Agents Ronnie Austin and Mike Walsh were assigned tofollow up on this information.

Special Agents Austin and Walsh, along with Special Agent Supervisor Andrew Rose, met withPriscilla Doyle and Karen Warren at the FDLE office in Fort Myers, on January 8th. PriscillaDoyle and Karen Warren are the persons identified as bringing this information forward.

Priscilla Doyle and Karen Warren are students at Florida Gulf Coast University (FGCU). Dr.Heather Walsh-Haney is an associate professor at FGCU. Doyle and Warren volunteered theirtime to help Walsh-Haney with her work of identifying the human remains of unidentifiedpersons. In October of 2007, Doyle and Warren went to the District 20 Medical Examiner’sOffice in Collier County to complete some of their volunteer work. All the unidentified humanremains for Walsh-Haney’s project are kept at this facility. Their work consisted of goingthrough the boxes of unidentified remains and getting them ready to be shipped to theUniversity of North Texas, where DNA work would be completed.

During their work, Doyle and Warren came across two cases where the remains were those ofidentified persons. Upon examining the documentation further, they discovered the following. The first case was identified as the remains of Frankie Deangelo Dennard. Dennard was thevictim of a homicide and his body was found on February 16, 2002, in Jacksonville, Florida. The remains in this case consisted of the skull and fragments, along with cervical vertebrae,C1-C7. A receipt for evidence, labeled as being from the Medical Examiner’s Office inJacksonville, shows these remains being received by Walsh-Haney on August 4, 2005. Thesecond case was identified as the remains of Jeffrey Ivan Gwyn, Jr. Gwyn was a victim of ahomicide and his body was found on March 30, 2002, in Jacksonville, Florida. The remains inthis case consisted of the humeri (upper arm) and femurs (upper leg), along with cervicalvertebrae, C1-C4 and some fragments. A receipt for evidence in this case, also labeled asbeing from the Medical Examiner’s Office in Jacksonville, also shows Walsh-Haney as receivingthese remains on August 4, 2005.

Doyle and Warren were unsure of what to do with these remains, since there were alreadyidentified, so they asked Walsh-Haney about them. Walsh-Haney told them those cases weredonated to her. When they tried to inquire further about these two cases, because there wasno paperwork showing the remains were donated, Walsh-Haney told them to get their work

FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENTINVESTIGATIVE REPORT

Case Number:FM-73-0762 Serial #:1Author:Austin, Ronald W Office:Ft. MyersActivity Start Date:01/08/2008 Activity End Date:02/20/2008Approved By:Rose, AndrewDescription:Initial IRTHIS REPORT IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE AGENCY TO WHICH IT WASDISSEMINATED AND MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS EITHER PRIVILEGED ORCONFIDENTIAL AND EXEMPT FROM DISCLOSURE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW. ITSCONTENTS ARE NOT TO BE DISTRIBUTED OUTSIDE YOUR AGENCY.

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completed and leave, never giving them an answer.

Doyle and Warren became concerned about this, because Walsh-Haney’s demeanor towardsthem completely changed when they asked her about these cases. They were also concernedthat the families of these two men possibly did not know they did not bury the entire remains.

Warren made contact with Dr. Duane Dobbert at FGCU, who is in the Division of JusticeStudies at FGCU. Warren told Dr. Dobbert of what they found and what Walsh-Haney toldthem and how she acted. Dr. Dobbert referred her to the University Ombudsman, Dr. CharlesMcKinney. Warren and Doyle met with Dr. McKinney and conveyed the same information tohim. Dr. McKinney told them he would look into the matter. Meanwhile, Walsh-Haney calledWarren and told her that she was to cease all her work and would not be assisting her with herclasses (Warren had been acting as a graduate assistant to Walsh-Haney).

Warren and Doyle became more curious about the case and began to conduct their ownresearch. On their own, they ordered a copy of the death certificates of Dennard and Gwyn. Dennard’s death certificate indicates he was buried at Restlawn Memorial Park in Jacksonville,Florida. Gwyn’s death certificate indicates he was buried at Magnolia Garden in Savannah,Georgia.

Warren and Doyle again met with Dr. McKinney (FGCU Ombudsman) and told them of whatthey found from the copies of the death certificates. Dr. McKinney again stated he was lookinginto the matter.

When they felt like nothing was being done, they contacted Brett Harding at the MedicalExaminer’s Office in Lee County, who suggested they speak with FDLE.

On Thursday, January 10, 2008, recorded sworn statements were taken from Doyle andWarren at FDLE by Special Agents Austin and Walsh. These statements are being retained asrelated items.

In addition to her statement regarding the cases from Jacksonville, Priscilla Doyle also provideda statement in reference to Dr. Walsh-Haney being in possession of Native American remains. Priscilla Doyle became suspicious about these remains and was concerned that Dr.Walsh-Haney didn’t have the appropriate authority to be in possession of these remains. Thereason she thought this, is that during the spring semester of 2007, she assisted Dr.Walsh-Haney in setting up an exhibit of human remains for the media at FGCU, after the eightskeletons were found in Fort Myers. During the process of setting up this exhibit, Dr.Walsh-Haney told Priscilla the remains were Native American, but told Doyle not to mention thisto anyone. She didn’t think anything of this and dismissed the comment at the time. PriscillaDoyle further stated that at the end of the fall semester of 2007, a fellow student, Tina Boyce,spoke about helping Dr. Walsh-Haney clean remains that were Native American. When sheasked Tina Boyce about these remains and where they were from, Boyce stated they were froma site somewhere off of I-75.

On Tuesday, January 15, 2008, Special Agents Ronnie Austin and Mike Walsh met with BrettHarding at the Medical Examiner’s Office in Fort Myers. Brett Harding provided information ontwo cases in which Dr. Walsh-Haney made questionable statements in her official reports,regarding her potentially taking possession of human remains from the Medical Examiner’sOffice.

Case Number: FM-73-0762 IR Number: 1

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The first case, M.E. case #06-00730, was reported to the Medical Examiner’s Office onSeptember 8, 2006. In this case, human remains were found in a box by the owner of aresidence. The remains consisted of a cranium, mandible, and cervical, thoracic and lumbarvertebrae. Dr. Walsh-Haney completed an osteological examination and wrote a report on herfindings, determining the remains to in fact be human. At the end of her report, she states“these remains will be curated within the HWH skeletal collection at Florida Gulf CoastUniversity.” Her report became part of the Medical Examiner’s case file when she turned it in,possibly making it a public record. The report is dated October 27, 2006. Brett Harding statedthat Dr. Walsh-Haney does not have the authority to curate the remains to her collection.

The second case, M.E. case #07-00615, was reported to the Medical Examiner’s Office onAugust 9, 2007. In this case, a human cranium and mandible were found in a cast-iron pot,which was determined to be part of a Palo Mayombe religious shrine. Dr. Walsh-Haneycompleted an osteological examination and wrote a report on her findings, determining theremains to in fact be human. At the end of her report, Dr. Walsh-Haney states “Lee CountySheriff’s Office has donated these specimens to me for teaching purposes.” This report alsobecame part of the Medical Examiner’s case file when she turned it in, possibly making it apublic record. The report is dated November 2, 2007. Brett Harding stated that Lee CountySheriff’s Office does not have the authority to turn the items over to Dr. Walsh-Haney.

These two cases (remains) are still in custody of the District 21 Medical Examiner, Dr. RebeccaHamilton, in Fort Myers, Florida. The original reports authored by Dr. Walsh-Haney are also inpossession of the Medical Examiner’s Office.

SA Austin made contact with Detective William Murphy of the Lee County Sheriff’s Office. Detective Murphy was the lead investigator on the first case (M.E. case #06-00730). DetectiveMurphy was asked if he ever told or led Dr. Walsh-Haney to believe that she could havepossession of the human remains from this case. Detective Murphy stated that he did not givepermission to anyone granting release of these remains. Detective Murphy provided a writtensworn affidavit to this effect, which will be maintained as a related item.

SA Austin also made contact with Detective Bill Kalstrom of the Lee County Sheriff’s Office. Detective Kalstrom was the lead investigator on the second case (M.E. case #07-00615). Detective Kalstrom was asked if he ever told Dr. Walsh-Haney that she could take possessionof the human remains from this case. Detective Kalstrom stated that he did not tell Dr.Walsh-Haney that she could take possession of these remains, nor does he have the authorityto do so. Detective Kalstrom provided a written sworn affidavit to this effect, which will bemaintained as a related item.

On Wednesday, January 16, 2008, Special Agents Austin and Walsh met with Dr. MartaCoburn, Chief Medical Examiner for District 20 in Naples, Florida. The two Jacksonville caseswere still secured in the Medical Examiner’s evidence room, sealed with evidence tape. Dr.Coburn stated that Dr. Walsh-Haney has numerous cases of unidentified human remainsstored at the District 20 facility, where she conducts her work. Dr. Coburn also stated that Dr.Walsh-Haney is a consultant for District 20 and maintains a working office at the facility. Dr.Coburn states that she does not have any reason to believe that Dr. Walsh-Haney hasintentionally done anything wrong regarding the Jacksonville cases.

On Thursday, January 17, 2008, Special Agent Austin made contact with Jeff Brokaw, ChiefInvestigator for the District 4 Medical Examiner’s Officer in Jacksonville, Florida. SA Austinexplained the information that was provided by Doyle and Warren. SA Austin requested that


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Brokaw check these two cases to determine if Heather Walsh-Haney had permission to be inpossession of these remains and to provide documentation showing this.

Jeff Brokaw told SA Austin that after he reviewed the two files, he confirmed that the remainsfrom the two cases in question (Dennard & Gwyn) were in fact turned over to/released toHeather Walsh-Haney on August 4, 2005. Jeff Brokaw further stated that HeatherWalsh-Haney has 30-40 cases of human remains that belong to District 4, with theirpermission. Jeff Brokaw explained that they did not have room for these cases, as they wereall unidentified cases, so they have allowed Heather Walsh-Haney to be in possession of them.

Jeff Brokaw faxed SA Austin documentation on the Dennard and Gwyn cases. In the Dennardcase, one document is a “follow up investigation” report from Investigator Moore, documentingthat his (Dennard) family did not want to collect the portion of the remains that were not alreadyinterred. The two other documents from each case is the evidence list showing the remainswere released to Heather Walsh-Haney. These documents will be retained as a related item.

On Friday, January 18, 2008, Special Agents Austin and Walsh interviewed Dr. RebeccaHamilton, Chief Medical Examiner for District 21. Dr. Hamilton identified Dr. Walsh-Haney’srelationship/role with her office as an official consultant. Dr. Walsh-Haney has performednumerous osteological examinations on human remains for District 21. Dr. Walsh-Haney wasnot paid for her work. Dr. Hamilton has suspended Dr. Walsh-Haney’s privileges for District 21due to questions regarding her trustworthiness. Dr. Hamilton cited the two cases Brett Hardingreported to FDLE as reason to believe Dr. Walsh-Haney was being dishonest in her attempt totake possession of human remains. Dr. Hamilton stated that Dr. Walsh-Haney does not havethe authority to take possession of human remains that are in custody of District 21, without her(Dr. Hamilton) consent. Regarding the statements in Dr. Walsh-Haney’s reports on the twocases, the Lee County Sheriff’s Office cannot give permission for Dr. Walsh-Haney to takecustody of the remains nor can Dr. Walsh-Haney “curate” the other remains to her privatecollection.

On January 24, 2008, Special Agents Austin and Walsh met with Dr. Kenneth Millar and Dr.Hudson Rogers of Florida Gulf Coast University regarding the information we receivedconcerning Dr. Walsh-Haney and the Native American remains. Dr. Rogers informed theAgents they would be conducting an internal inquiry into the matter of the Native Americanremains being kept at FGCU.

On Tuesday, January 29, 2008, Special Agents Austin and Walsh interviewed Pam Strassel, anInvestigator with the District 21 Medical Examiner’s Office. Strassel was the Investigatorassigned to the two cases in which Dr. Walsh-Haney made questionable statements regardingtaking possession of the remains. Strassel stated she did not tell Dr. Walsh-Haney she couldtake possession of the remains from these two cases, nor does she have the authority to do so. Strassel’s statement will be maintained as a related item.

On Thursday, January 31, 2008, SA Austin spoke with Dr. Margarita Arruza, Chief MedicalExaminer for District 4. Dr. Arruza confirmed and authenticated the information that was sent toSA Austin regarding Heather Walsh-Haney being in possession of the Dennard and Gwynremains. Dr. Arruza told SA Austin that Heather Walsh-Haney has permission/authority to be inpossession of these remains, as well as other cases from her district.


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On Tuesday, February 5, 2008, Dr. Rogers contacted SA Austin regarding the Native Americanremains. Dr. Rogers informed SA Austin that the Chief State Archeologist, Dr. Ryan Wheeler,informed FGCU, through an email, that Dr. Walsh-Haney has permission from his office(Bureau of Archeological Research) to be in possession of these Native American remains.These particular remains are property of the Bureau of Archaeological Research and were froma find in 1987. The email was forwarded to SA Austin and will be retained as a related item.

On Friday, February 8, 2008, a meeting was held at the State Attorney’s Office topresent/discuss the findings of this investigation and more specifically, determine if thestatements made by Dr. Walsh-Haney in her reports rise to the level of being criminal as itrelates to official misconduct. Attending this meeting were ASA Dean Plattner, ChiefInvestigator Kevin Smith, Special Agents Austin and Walsh and SAS Andrew Rose. ASAPlattner took the matter under advisement, stating he wanted to review the matter in moredetail.

On Thursday, February 14, 2008, ASA Dean Plattner contacted SA Austin. ASA Plattneradvised SA Austin that after reviewing the information provided regarding Dr. Walsh-Haney andthe reports she made false statements in, he does not see where criminal intent is evident. ASA Plattner stated he did want to be updated on any statements made by Dr. Walsh-Haneyafter she is interviewed by FDLE.


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The following investigative report details the investigation into forensic anthropologist HeatherWalsh-Haney.

On March 17, 2008, Special Agent (SA) Michael Walsh received a phone call from District 21Medical Examiner Dr. Rebecca Hamilton concerning Heather Walsh-Haney.

Dr. Hamilton stated that on March 13, 2008, the Glades County Sheriff’s Office responded to alandfill area in Moore Haven, Fl (Off of US 27) in where construction workers dug up humanremains. Detective Steve Harris of the GCSO was assigned as the lead investigator of thecase.

A GCSO Captain called Walsh-Haney directly to assist in the investigation. The remains werebrought to the GCSO. Walsh-Haney responded to the office with two Florida Gulf CoastUniversity (FGCU) students and began a preliminary investigation (taking photographs andmeasurements). Walsh-Haney asked GCSO if they had called the District 21 Medical Examinerto report the incident. GCSO stated they had not informed the Medical Examiner (ME).Walsh-Haney told GCSO that they should call the ME to report the incident.

Walsh-Haney then asked GCSO if they wanted her to take the remains to the ME and GCSOstated that ME Investigator Brett Harding would take possession of the remains.

Walsh-Haney then marked the skull with her case number using an indelible marker and left theoffice.

Dr. Hamilton stated she wanted to make SA Walsh aware of this incident.


Case Number:FM-73-0762 Serial #:2Author:Walsh, Michael Office:Ft. MyersActivity Start Date:03/28/2008 Activity End Date:03/28/2008Approved By:Rose, AndrewDescription:Moore Haven remains discovered.THIS REPORT IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE AGENCY TO WHICH IT WASDISSEMINATED AND MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS EITHER PRIVILEGED ORCONFIDENTIAL AND EXEMPT FROM DISCLOSURE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW. ITSCONTENTS ARE NOT TO BE DISTRIBUTED OUTSIDE YOUR AGENCY.

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The following investigative report details the interviews conducted concerning the remains ofJeffrey Gwyn.

On March 28, 2008, Special Agent (SA) Michael Walsh contacted Jeffrey Bass of Atlanta,Georgia. Bass is the uncle of Jeffrey Gwyn, a homicide victim from Jacksonville, Florida. JeffreyGwyn was murdered on March 30, 2002.

SA Walsh spoke to Bass at length and asked him if he knew that there were currently remainsof his nephew Jeffrey Gwyn in the Collier County, Florida Medical Examiner’s Office. Bassstated that he was aware of the information and was very disturbed by the news. Bass statedthat his family (including Kimberly Gwyn – Jeffrey Gwyn’s mother – and next of kin) were neverinformed that the police had ever found remains of Jeffrey Gwyn. Bass also stated that hisfamily had been contacted previously by a reporter with the news of Jeffrey Gwyn.

SA Walsh asked Bass if Kimberly Gwyn or any other family member had ever signed anydocument donating any remains of Jeffrey Gwyn to the Medical Examiner’s office and Bassemphatically stated, “No’. Bass went on to say that it was his family’s intentions that if the policehad ever found partial remains of Jeffrey Gwyn, that the family would exhume the coffin andplace the remains inside to bury Jeffrey Gwyn whole.

SA Walsh asked Bass if Kimberly Gwyn would speak to him regarding this matter and Bassstated that Kimberly Gwyn was consulting an attorney and would not speak to law enforcement.

On April 2, 2008, Special Agent (SA) Michael Walsh spoke via phone to Jeff Brokaw, ChiefMedical Investigator of the Office of District 4 Medical Examiner in Jacksonville, Florida.

SA Walsh was inquiring about a homicide victim named Jeffrey Gwyn whose remains werecurrently being stored in the District 20 Medical Examiner’s Office in Collier County, Florida.

SA Walsh was referencing Jacksonville ME report # 02-0441.

SA Walsh asked Brokaw to check the file he had on Gwyn to see if he could locate anypaperwork in reference to the next of kin of Gwyn authorizing the donation of the remains ofGwyn to the Medical Examiner’s office. Brokaw checked the file he had and could not locateany such paperwork.


Case Number:FM-73-0762 Serial #:3Author:Walsh, Michael Office:Ft. MyersActivity Start Date:04/07/2008 Activity End Date:04/07/2008Approved By:Rose, AndrewDescription:Bass & Brokaw interviews.THIS REPORT IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE AGENCY TO WHICH IT WASDISSEMINATED AND MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS EITHER PRIVILEGED ORCONFIDENTIAL AND EXEMPT FROM DISCLOSURE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW. ITSCONTENTS ARE NOT TO BE DISTRIBUTED OUTSIDE YOUR AGENCY.

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The following investigative report is in reference to the interview with Dr. Heather Walsh-Haneywhich was conducted on April 4, 2007.

The voluntary sworn taped interview of Dr. Walsh-Haney was conducted by Special Agent (SA)Michael Walsh and Special Agent Supervisor (SAS) Andrew Rose at the law offices of Quarlesand Brady in Naples, Florida. Dr. Walsh-Haney was represented by attorneys Michael D’Onofrioand Kenneth Haney (also the husband of Dr. Walsh-Haney).

The transcript of Walsh-Haney’s statement can be found below:

Florida Department of Law EnforcementCase Number FM-73-0762

Interview of Heather Walsh-Haney, Part 1, 04/04/08

MW: Mike Walsh, Special Agent, Florida Department of Law EnforcementAR: Andrew Rose, Special Agent Supervisor, Florida Department of Law EnforcementMD: Michael D’Onofrio, AttorneyHWH: Heather Walsh-HaneyKH: Kenneth Haney, Attorney (husband of Heather Walsh-Haney)

MW: Okay. Today’s date is April 4th, 2008. Time is 9:12 am. This is Special Agent MikeWalsh with FDLE. Also present for this interview is Special Agent Supervisor AndrewRose, uh, attorney Michael D’Onofrio. Last name’s spelled D’O-n-o-f-r-i-o. A whitemale…uh, white female, Heather Walsh-Haney, and uh, attorney Kenneth Haney who’salso Heather’s husband. Uh, we’re currently at the law offices of Quarles and Bradywhich is located at 1395 Panther Lane, Suite 300, in Naples, Florida. Um, this interviewis gonna be concerning FDLE case number FM-73-0762. Uh, Heather can you do me afavor and raise your…can I call you Heather…

HWH: It’s alright.

MW: …or Doctor, whatever you want.

HWH: Yes. Of course…

MW: Okay.


Case Number:FM-73-0762 Serial #:4Author:Walsh, Michael Office:Ft. MyersActivity Start Date:04/15/2008 Activity End Date:04/15/2008Approved By:Rose, AndrewDescription:Interview of Dr. Walsh-Haney.THIS REPORT IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE AGENCY TO WHICH IT WASDISSEMINATED AND MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS EITHER PRIVILEGED ORCONFIDENTIAL AND EXEMPT FROM DISCLOSURE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW. ITSCONTENTS ARE NOT TO BE DISTRIBUTED OUTSIDE YOUR AGENCY.

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HWH: …you can call me by that.

MW: Do me a favor…

MD: Mike. You’re gonna swear her in?

MW: Yeah.

MD: What authority do you have to swear her in?

AR: (laugh) As a notary…as, as an agent, as a law enforcement officer in the state ofFlorida, we have the right under state statue as I’m sure you know to…

MD: Is that right?

AR: …swear people in. Absolutely, take sworn statements all the time. As part of our job.

MD: What, which statue is that?

AR: One seventeen, I believe. If you want to look that up.

MD: So you have the right to swear her in for testimony?

AR: Yes.

MD: Okay.

AR: All, all day long (laughing).

MD: Okay.

AR: Done it for almost twenty years now, so.

MW: Alright.

MD: I’m sorry.

MW: Heather, raise you hand. Thank you. Do you swear, affirm the testimony, testimonyyou’re about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothin’ but the truth, so help youGod?

HWH: I do.

MW: Okay. Great. Thanks. Okay. Uh, Heather as you know, I can call you Heather…

HWH: Yes.

MW: …we’re good? Alright. Alright, as you know um, a couple students from FGCU uh,brought this…this how FDLE got involved. Okay? Um, they were um, Priscilla Doyle andKaren Warren. Uh, they were students of yours? Uh, let me get this out of the way. How


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are you employed?

HWH: Oh, yes. I am a professor at Florida Gulf Coast University.

MW: And that’s in Estero?

HWH: That is in Fort Myers actually.

MW: Is it Fort Myers?

HWH: Um-hum.

MW: Okay. And your expertise is in…

HWH: My expertise is in physical anthropology and forensic anthropology.

MW: Alright so teacher huns…hundreds of students a year.

HWH: I do.

MW: Right. Okay. And as a professor, a doctor, um, you have many students that volunteertheir time, work for you on different cases and all that?

HWH: Let’s see…

MW: Alright. You…if you can explain it, explain it better cause…

HWH: Um, I have graduate students and a select few undergraduates who volunteer with meand they will become involved in cases through my consulting as a service componentat Florida Gulf Coast University.

MW: Right. Okay. And you’re also a consultant for District 21?

HWH: Actually…

MW: Uh, prior.

HWH: Prior, yes.

MW: Right.

HWH: Yeah.

MW: For Rebecca Hamilton and Marta Coburn down here, consultant with her?

HWH: Yes.

MW: And that’s District 20?

HWH: Um-hum.


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MW: Okay. It…is there anywhere else you’re a consultant, like statewide or…

HWH: Yes.

MW: Okay.

HWH: Um, I am a consultant for District 4 in Jacksonville, District 17 in Broward. Previously Iwas a consultant for District 5. On occasion I have also been, uh, consultant for WestPalm for (unintelligible).

MW: Wow. Okay. Okay and uh, bein’ a statewide consultant for finding human remains andall that, like you said, you have students that volunteer. If they find remains uh, you callup the students in the middle of the night and say “Hey, let’s go. We got…”. I mean howdoes that work?

HWH: I do it the same way I was trained.

MW: Uh-hu.

HWH: And that is that um, if there is a case and I’ve given enough notice from the investigatingagencies I will call my graduate students or a select few undergrads and they’ll comewith me.

MW: Okay. Great. Great. Um, okay. Now to get back to He…um, Priscilla and Karen weretwo of your students that worked with you closely and came out on different scenesand…

HWH: Um, yes.

MW: Okay. And they uh, they also went down to the District 20 medical examiner helpin’ youwith the, on a…unidentified remains?

HWH: Um…

MW: What were they doin’ down there?

KH: If I can say…

MW: Uh-hu.

KH: Heather, break down the question because it…saying unidentified remains…

MW: Is there a pro…

KH: (unintelligible)

MW: …is there a national project? Like, were they helping you with a national project is out ofTexas or somethin’?

HWH: Well…


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MW: No, wait a minute.

AR: I guess what did they do? What was their job? What were those…

HWH: Well they didn’t really have a…

AR: …when you’re at the M.E.’s office here in Collier.

HWH: Um, the purpose of them being there was to be mentored by me so that they could helplearn what a forensic anthropologist does. And then um, out of that came theopportunity for them to help um, with I guess looking at skeletal remains.

MW: Um-hum.

HWH: Specifically that came from the Jacksonville office of the medical examiner.

MW: Right.

KH: But I, I would just say he’s probably, just tryin’ to make it…it’s probably best for you todescribe the project that you gave to Priscilla.

HWH: Okay.

KH: What the context of that was and how Karen became involved.

HWH: Specifically I had asked Priscilla Doyle um, to help me in the organization of theJacksonville medical examiner cases because I knew within those cases there wereunknown individuals.

MW: Right.

HWH: As so as Pricilla has had a background check conducted by Fort Myers P.D. and so shewould be…

MW: Oh.

HWH: …or I guess criminal history check or something?

MW: On herself?

HWH: Uh-hu.

MW: Okay. Okay.

HWH: Yeah. And so I had asked her to help with that project. I gave her specific training thatwould allow her to know how to properly open the boxes, show me what’s inside, andthen I would help her um, to figure out the type of bone that would be suitable for DNAanalysis.

MW: Right.


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HWH: So then the bone could be submitted to the University of North Texas…

MW: North Texas.

HWH: …where DNA analysis would be done. And then um, the…hopefully it would establish apositive I.D.

MW: Uh, good. Okay. That’s…and, and how many, how many remains of individuals fromJacksonville do you think are down here in Collier, that were for this project?

HWH: I hesitate to give a number.

MW: Okay.

HWH: I don’t, I don’t know exactly off the top of my head. I can certainly find that informationout for you.

MW: I was just wondering if you knew. That’s the only thing. Okay. Go ahead…

KH: And you might want to give a brief explanation of where, how the, the, the remains weretransferred.

HWH: Um, the Jacksonville office of the medical examiner transferred um, the remains toDistrict 20 because uh, Dr Marta Coburn had invited me to come down, work out of heroffice…

MW: Um-hum.

HWH: …and to help her and the state really um, kinda understand the unknowns, the bonesthat have been kept as part of evidence in trials, as um, bones that um, had goneunclaimed by family.

MW: Right.

HWH: And um, so Marta had discussed with a Dr Arruza her excitement about having mecome down to District 20…

MW: Yeah.

HWH: …and that facilitated actually Dr Arruza approaching me and saying we have all theseskeletons in a storage room, a storage room that is not the proper size or humidity…

MW: Right.

HWH: …to hold them.

MW: Um-hum.

HWH: So we know about this opportunity for you in District 20. We would like you to transferthose remains to District 20 and for you and your students to go through them, cleanthem properly, store them the way you know how…


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MW: Um-hum.

HWH: …and um, help us facilitate the I.D.s of those that, you know, that are unknown and toalso pinpoint remains that have been left as part of evidentiary processes from the early70’s, 80’s, and 90’s. And um, figure out if they need to be returned to families or ifthey’re um, remains that can, other science can be done on them to help either identifythem or figure out the trauma that was there and maybe even help catch um, theperpetrators of crimes that have been left unsolved.

MW: Right.

HWH: Because part of the collection also includes positively I.D.ed victims who were victims ofhorrible crimes.

MW: Right.

HWH: And that the trauma analysis and perhaps tool mark comparisons on those victimshaven’t been done because of the time that the cases are tried the science wasn’t there.

MW: Right. Right. Yeah. I understand. Go ahead.

KH: No. I was gonna say…

MW: Oh. Okay.

KH: (unintelligible)

AR: (unintelligible) Who pays you? I mean how do you receive compensation? Do you getpaid by the college? Do you get paid by the medical examiner’s offices? Both? Boththe…

HWH: No actually…

MD: Paid for…

AR: For her services.

MD: To…

AR: As a forensic anthropologist and as a consultant.

HWH: I’m actually not paid by medical examiner’s offices. Um, I am paid by Florida Gulf CoastUniversity as a professor. And my services for the medical examiner’s fall under theservice component of my contract. But in fact, thanks to my husband and…um, I haveactually spent lots of money to analyze cases for medical examiners as part of myservice component.

MW: Um-hum.


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AR: Sure but ultimately I guess you…you’re a…

KH: She’s an employee of the Florida…

AR: Yeah.

KH: …Gulf Coast University.

AR: An employee there but un…fall under their rules, regulations, or whatever it might be. Isthat, would that make sense?

HWH: I don’t, I don’t know.

AR: I mean are you governed by them rather than the medical examiner’s office?

HWH: I don’t know how to answer that.

AR: Okay. But I mean, it’s not a very clear question I guess.

KH: Her…

AR: You…it…go ahead.

KH: I was gonna say, her employment relationship is with Florida Gulf Coast University. Theconsultant relationship she has with the medical examiner’s I think it’s a matter of law asgoverned by the requests that the medical examiner’s made of her. She operatespursuant to their instructions.

AR: Perfect. Works for me. Would that be correct?

HWH: (laugh)

MW: (laugh)

HWH: Yes.

AR: Okay. Thank you.

MW: Alright. Um, yeah everyone we talked to said your science is impeccable. Everyone’svery impressed.

HWH: Thank you.

MW: Okay? So, um, um, you said Dr Arruza she’s the chief medical examiner? It’s a woman?Right?

HWH: Yes. I’m sorry. Maggie Arruza.

MW: I called her the other day and um, guy by the name of Jeff Brokaw, you know Jeff?

HWH: I do.


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MW: Okay. Alright. Uh, specifically the two cases that were brought to our attention, which allstarted from Priscilla and Karen are two cases um, of the remains of two, uh, youngblack men, um, from the Jacksonville area, um, that their remains are here. Okay?You’re aware of these cases?

HWH: Um-hum.

MW: Okay. And just for the record, uh, oh wait, these are the wrong ones. Um, stand by asecond. It’s…right here. And the first one, and you have copies of this? You got this lasttime Mike? Okay. Uh, first one…

MD: (unintelligible)

MW: Yeah.

AR: They’re some documents you guys requested the last time I guess. Before you left?

MD: I had two reports that you gave me.

MW: Okay.

MD: Those are the only ones

MW: Alright. Uh, alright if you don’t…if they’re not…

MD: I do, I do not have that.

MW: Okay. I’ll give you a copy of this okay?

MD: Okay. Yeah, we haven’t seen that.

MW: You want to look, it’s two M.E. reports from uh, from Jacksonville. Um, ones a FrankieDennard and the others a Jeffery Gwyn. You didn’t get copies of those last time?

MD: I did not.

MW: Okay.

MD: In fact I thought today…

AR: Oh, you’re right.

MW: You got copies…

AR: You did not…

MW: You got copies…

AR: …you received the copies…


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MW: …of these?

AR: …of these other reports.

MD: These two reports.

AR: Right.

MD: But I thought today the, the only issue that was being inquired about were these tworeports…

MW: Right.

MD: …um, out of uh, District 21. I thought from our conversation that the issues related tothe Jacksonville medical examiner’s office had been resolved and has nothing to do withHeather.

MW: I just want to get it on record. Heather…has noth…these guys, uh, Mr Dennard andGwyn…

MD: It’s fine.

MW: …we have a letter saying, right, that she, uh, Heather has nothin’ to do ultimately, she’snot responsible for this.

MD: Okay.

MW: You know so I just wanted to get it…

AR: We’re just tryin’ to establish how they came into the possession of the medicalexaminer’s office or you here in Collier County.

MW: Right.

KH: You have, do you have the chain of evidence forms that were previously provided to MrAustin?

MW: Yeah, they’re right, they’re right here.

AR: They should have them.

MW: It’s all in one packet.

KH: But like I would say that the….

MW: That’s, that’s one.

KH: The receipt of evidence forms would be the only (unintelligible) in terms of the medicalexaminer’s transfer of those remains Mike.

MW: And there’s the uh…


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AR: There’s the other one.

MW: Yeah.

MD: Alright so what’s your question?

MW: Right. I’m not tryin’ to trip you up or anything.

MD: Oh, I, I don’t think you are.

MW: I’m just…

MD: No, I know. Go ahead.

AR: I guess the question is, do those…they’re accurate. Are those…I mean were those, uh,were those remains transferred to ultimately I guess they all go to the medicalexaminer’s office but through you or however that went. It’s not…yeah, you guys arethinkin’ into it, I think, way too much.

MW: Yeah, don’t…right.

MD: What?

AR: They ultimate…yeah and we’re not, this is not tryin’ to in any way trap or trick oranything.

MW: No. (unintelligible)

AR: What we’re tryin’ to do is establish how they got down here.

MW: Right. That’s all.

MD: How the, the remains from Dennard…

AR: And that, how those remains from uh, Jacksonville came into the possession of themedical examiner’s office in Collier County. And those, there’s a chain of custody formin there.

MW: Right.

AR: Is, are those forms accurate for those two bodies. Or does it, they appear to be accuratebecause we only have the copy.

MD: Right. She had, she had, she did some cursory review of the documents. Whether theseare the…if, if you know how the Dennard remains have made it to District 20 and theGwyn remains have been, uh, are now in District 20, you can explain how they got thereif you know.

HWH: Sure.


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MD: Okay.

HWH: Um, those two sets of remains were part of the rest of the skeletal materials that weretrusted to District 20 and me to conduct the analysis so that we could figure out who wasthere and what science could be done…

AR: Um-hum.

HWH: …in the interest of the families involved.

MW: Right. Yeah. We’re not tryin’ to trip you up. Believe me.

AR: Now that was…

MW: Believe me.

AR: …simple enough, see.

MW: Yeah.

AR: (laugh)

MW: Alright. And if you, no just…did Dr Arruza give you these to you? Do you know?

HWH: Yes.

MW: If you don’t it’s okay. It’s no big deal.

HWH: Uh, Dr…well Jeff Brokaw, who is her chief investigator and Dr Maggie Arruza who is thechief medical examiner. And she did that with support of the rest of her staff. They felt itwas an important (unintelligible).

AR: Do you know how, how all those remains, or these particular two, and the rest of thoseremains from Jacksonville, found their way down to Collier?

HWH: Oh, yeah.

AR: Did you drive them?

HWH: I drove them down.

AR: Somebody…I, I have no idea.

HWH: I drove them down.

AR: Okay. Like in a car or a van or whatever it might be.

HWH: Florida Gulf Coast University paid to have a van that I rented and I drove em down.

AR: I know.


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MW: It’s good. And, and so you know, um, this is how this whole thing started with these twoguys, when Priscilla and Karen found these two guys. They found the chain of custodyin the box. Okay? They thought somethin’ wasn’t right. And uh, um…

MD: Well what didn’t they think was right?

MW: Well they found the chain of custody form in the box. Okay?

AR: Actually I, I think ultimately what happened in this is, is there’s two identified, two sets ofidentified remains in boxes full of unidentifieds. And it just seemed odd to them. Notsaying they…it just appeared odd and I don’t think…I think that’s where ultimatelyeverything started from so. It’s not, you know…they’re tryin’ to do in their eyes…and I’mspeaking for them and maybe I shouldn’t, but somethin’ seemed weird, they were tryin’to do the right thing and say, “Whoa, what’s goin’ on with these. We’re looking throughunidentified remains” and that may be a matter of opinion but they’re looking throughunidentified remains and find two identified.

MD: Right. They contacted the FDLE without even discussing with the doctor. Withoutdiscussing with the university.

AR: I don’t…

MD: So…right, I, I…

AR: (unintelligible)

MD: …appreciate your opinion but I, I, I think there’s more to this than, than what they maybe telling you.

AR: But, that, and that’s quite possible. I’m just sayin’ what…my opinion.

MW: Alright. Um, and I, and I don’t want to dwell on this. Um, we, we, I…we contacted Jeffand Dr Arruza and they say, okay we have these chain of custody we just want to makesure they’re where they should be. You know? Because the death certificate on both ofem said they should be buried and not the donated boxes checked, you know.

KH: Let me, let me interject here…

MW: Yeah.

KH: …for the record as, as a legal matter.

MW: Uh-hu.

KH: Um, any decision and I’m sure you might be aware of this, but any decision with respectto attention of uh, the remains themselves, body parts, uh, tissue samples, organs, uh,all as governed by (unintelligible) of the Florida Administrative code is the, is the soledecision of the, and at the discretion of the medical examiner.

MW: Right.


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KH: Heather has no participation…

MW: Right.

KH: …in that determination. Um, whether or not uh, the families were entitled or required toreceive notification of the tissue specimens that the Jacksonville medical examinerretained um, is, is an open issue.

MW: Right.

KH: This…but that is all under the medical examiner’s purview.

MW: Right.

KH: So I, I say that to the extent that I, I’m am gonna ask…and I don’t know if you’re goingthere but before we do if any question regarding what the medical examiner decidedaren’t…I’m lookin’ at it that Heather’s not gonna answer those. It’s not her privy. Shedoesn’t know. She’s not privy or party to that decision.

MW: Right. I guess, ultimately I guess my question, as far as you know, um, these bodieswere donated, these parts, these remains were donated for uh, teaching purposes, asfar as you know.

HWH: No.

MW: You have no idea?

HWH: No that’s an incorrect statement.

MW: Oh. How…okay.

AR: Then, I guess, what we’re tryin’ to find…what, and this is not accusatory in any way,shape, or form, and this is…but what are you doing with these, these remains? Or, whatwere they going to be used for?

HWH: As I…

AR: If they’re sittin’ in with a bunch of unidentifieds.

HWH: As I mentioned before, um, these remains were part of a storage room that was um,holding all of the skeletal remains cases in Jacksonville. The storage room wasoverburdened, it was overcrowded, it didn’t have the right humidity levels. And um,these were cases that had been collected during the entire um, working of the medicalexaminer’s office. So what Dr Arruza and her chief investigator did was take all of theskeletal remains, be they positively I.D.ed pieces that had trauma on them fromhomicide trials were the pieces were held for evidence.

MW: Um-hum.

HWH: Or they were um, unidentified individuals or they were anatomical specimens that werepart of medical schools. All of those remains, in total, were delivered by me to the


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District 20 office of the medical examiner, where all of those boxes could be opened,they could be evaluated, new reports could be generated. And the information that Ipulled from the, from those skeletized remains, Maggie and Dr Coburn and I would sitdown and decide on how we could handle the ultimate disposition of the remains. Be itthey finally were positively I.D.ed by University of North Texas. Be it that there was C-14dating done on them so they were determined that they were not of forensic significanceand needed to be remanded to the state archeologist. Be it that now science could beevaluated on sharp force trauma or blunt force trauma so that those wounds could bematched to a weapons…

MW: Um-hum.

HWH: …so that perpetrators could be caught, that is why I had all of those skeletized remainsin boxes inside the District 20 office of the medical examiner’s office.

MW: Okay.

AR: That’s fair enough. I, I guess we…nobody’s accusing you of any wrong doing withthese…

MW: With…

AR: …with these remains.

MW: No.

AR: What happened was, this is where, we get involved originally, we have to explain notonly what, you know how…get your explanation and everybody else’s explanation ofhow they came to be, and also say look, there was no wrong doing on your part in this.Nobody, this is definitely, we’re not accusing you of any wrong doing with, with theseremains or anything. We’re just tryin’ to figure out number one where they came from,what they’re doing there, what you do with them, and you know, and that’s it. I meanit’s…so as far as that goes I mean just, we’re just tryin’ to lay the ground work as faras…point one, asked and answered. You know, next, then we’ll move on and, and workour way through it.

MD: And, and the final question on this point ought to be “Where are the remains now andwhat are you doing with them if anything?”.

AR: That sounds good. (laughing)

HWH: The remains right now are still in the District 20 office of the medical examiner, as withall the other boxes. They’re sealed with evidence tape. And indeed because of all of this,my work has been so slowed down that nothing has been done with those remains.

KH: Also, I want to make you guys aware that the information that was being collected atHeather’s direction with respect to the inventorying of those boxes, was uh, originally,well it was collected by Karen and Priscilla. They have taken the information that wascollected, which was the sole record with regard to what specimens were sanctioned tobe sent to University of North Texas and when they were sent and all of that stuff. Andthey have refused despite repeated requests to return that information to Heather and


Page 15 357720140422081735

the medical examiner. So that we are left with the position now because these twostudents have stolen that information that Heather has to try and recreate through theUniversity of North Texas and hope that they kept good records on their end…

MW: Um-hum.

KH: …to try and determine what was done on her end because the students have refused toreturn that material.

MW: Um-hum. All the research they did they kept? Basically…

KH: It wasn’t research.

HWH: It was…

KH: These materials…

HWH: It was not research. (laugh)

KH: These materials were never used for research. They were never used for teaching. Andyou can ask her that question to get her direct testimony in that. But the reality is is thatthese students were collecting inventory information. It wasn’t research it wasdocumentation basically continuation of the chain of the evidence for the sections thatwere taken. They collected that. They put it into a form that Heather ultimately approved.And in the letter to President Bradshall that was referenced in the article that I’m sureyou read…

MW: Um-hum.

KH: …the indication was that she prepared it on her computer so it’s her information and shehas refused to return it. That is significantly impairing her ability to perform the task thatthe medical examiner in District 4 requested her to perform. And, you know, there’sobviously as Mike said there’s, there’s far more to these students involving what theirmotivations were than that. But that is an important issue I want it on the record. Thosestudents need to be made to return that information to the medical examiner becauseit’s impeding the ability of the medical examiner to do their job and Heather to be able toconsult (unintelligible).

MW: Okay. We’ll look into that. Alright. Um, okay. Let’s, let’s get to these two. Um, and you,you do have copies of these?

MD: Yes.

MW: Mike?

MD: We do.

MW: Okay. And we’re referencing District 21 M.E. case number 00730 and 00615. Uh, youwant to take a look at these?

(unintelligible)


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MD: Can I have two minutes?

AR: Sure.

MD: Just to talk with…I, cause I’ve never seen these reports.

AR: Yeah, um, I don’t know what…which one of these…may I take a quick look and seewhat...Thanks. Oh, okay. The uh…

MD: Yeah. We’ve never seen those before.

AR: …Sheriff’s office. These are just uh, uh, statements by the Sheriff’s Office of whatyour…

MD: Yeah. I just want to ask her a couple of questions about it. That’s all.

AR: Absolutely. Come on.

MD: Can I just take those?

AR: Well if we can just hang on to em in here for right now. You’re just…

MD: Alright, yeah.

AR: I, I just want to take a look at somethin’ really quick. What time is it? It’s uh, nine…

MW: Nine…

AR: Approximately what 9:38?

MW: Right. Yeah.

(unintelligible whispering)

MD: Thanks. Sorry. We’re back.

AR: Okay. It’s fine.

MW: We all set?

AR: Yep.

MW: Okay. Um…

Florida Department of Law EnforcementCase Number FM-73-0762


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Interview of Heather Walsh-Haney, Part 2, 04/04/08

MW: Mike Walsh, Special Agent, Florida Department of Law EnforcementAR: Andrew Rose, Special Agent Supervisor, Florida Department of Law EnforcementMD: Michael D’Ononfrio, AttorneyHWH: Heather Walsh-HaneyKH: Kenneth Haney, Attorney (husband of Heather Walsh-Haney)

AR: That’s exactly. I assume HWH is Heather Walsh Haney. I could be incorrect.

HWH: You’re right.

AR: Okay. But I, I…so, I don’t want to put words in your mouth, please. I mean I’m not…it’snot a (unintelligible)

HWH: (unintelligible)

AR: I’m not bright enough to trip anybody up so…HWH would be the HeatherWalsh…Heather Walsh-Haney and then collection but what, again I mean it’s…you lostme for one second…what are those items again?

HWH: Those items consist of non-human remains. They consist of um, store boughtspecimens. They consist of remains that have been donated to me by next of kin and Iguess that’s it then, isn’t it?

AR: And, and non-human remains. You go to a scene, they dig up some type of skeleton, itturns out to be a dog or something like that.

HWH: I have…

AR: Teaching purposes and…I’m sure…I, I’ve done those myself. I’ve had an occasionwhere I went out to a scene and we dug for a day and it turns out that it’s a dog, so.

HWH: I run into many incidences where law enforcement, whether police or sheriff’s office orstate run into um, non-human remains and they constantly…

AR: Sure.

HWH: …bringing things to me.

AR: Okay. And then store bought specimens or uh, was that the correct term? Store bought?

HWH: Um-hum.

AR: Okay. You can…I understand there is a, you know, a way to, for people to buy humanremains, or buy maybe skulls or things like that. Is that…

HWH: There are. Um, you can, one can buy human remains from biological supply houses.From everything from Carolina Biological Supply to um, The Maxilla and Mandible in


Page 18 357720140422081735

New York. And um, you know, people will donate their bodies for future use.

AR: And, just out of curiosity, do, do they come, and I don’t even know if I, I could have, Ihave no idea if this is possible, do they often come from other countries or are they, arethey domestic (laugh) bones if you will.

HWH: Honey that’s such a hard question to answer because there’s so much expensivescience that would have to go on to figure out if they came from other countries. But um,for the most part, I think right now, most of the remains are coming from the UnitedStates, within the United States.

AR: I mean, and just as a side, I know there’s some, some controversy dealing with thosethat the uh, bodies collection and things like that as to whether or not they wereprisoners or…

HWH: The Body Exhibit.

AR: Right.

HWH: Yes. Exactly.

AR: Okay.

HWH: And so it’s questions concerning the ethics on whether the artist should have been usingremains that the Chinese government had donated to him because they were prisoners.And one of the things that the Chinese prison system does is when they’re put into theprison system they give them the opportunity to donate their bodies.

MW: Oh, really.

HWH: And so that…

AR: That’s nice.

HWH: That it…

AR: Form to sign up front.

MW: (laughing)

HWH: Right. And so then the question ends up being, you know, is that okay to sign up inprison.

AR: I mean and that has (laughing) no bearing…

HWH: (laughing) I know.

AR: …or relevance on this case, just curious as that I didn’t know if…

HWH: Yeah.


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AR: …you can legally import body parts. I have no idea. So…

MD: Of course she has no opinion if you can import em or not.

AR: Oh yeah, sure. (laughing)

HWH: (laughing)

AR: Not a problem. But, okay.

MW: Alright. The second case is also from uh, District 21. An M.E. case it’s 00615. Reportedon 8-9-2007. And this, this is your report on it. It’s on FGCU letterhead.

HWH: Um-hum.

MW: The same thing, osteological exam. In the…right. And the part that obviously um, let mesee…and this was for, let’s see. A skull found on a Santeria. You remember that?

HWH: Yeah.

MW: Yeah. Okay. And you got called out there and…

HWH: I didn’t actually go to the scene.

MW: Oh you…okay. They brought it back to you and you examined it?

HWH: Um-hum.

MW: Okay. Um, and at the end of your report here, again, right above your signature it says,LCSO has donated these specimens for you for teaching purposes. Really?

HWH: Yes.

MW: Do you, do you know who at LCSO gave you permission?

HWH: There was a detective. His last name starts with a K.

MW: Um-hum.

HWH: Um, I can explain his physical appearance.

MW: Sure.

HWH: Um, he’s a little chubby. Uh, brown hair. Probably in his 40’s or 50’s. But um, yeah, I’mpretty sure his last name starts with a K.

MW: K? Okay. He’s one of their homicide guys…

HWH: He is.

MW: …or violent crimes, or? You’d know him if you saw him again?


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HWH: Yeah. He’s a good guy.

MW: Okay. And he said no problem. You can take it, we’re done with it, what ever.

HWH: No. What he had said was, that the remains could be used for teaching. That they wouldbe donated um, for teaching. That he would follow up with his boss. And um, I put a notein the file about that. And then of course when and if I ever, you know decided to followup I would talk with the medical examiner.

MW: Right. Okay. Are you gonna say somethin’?

KH: No. No.

MW: (laughing)

KH: I was but…

MW: Um…

KH: …not now (laughing).

AR: See it’s tough to play both roles isn’t it. (laughing) I’m, I’m sure.

KH: Well…

AR: Go ahead.

KH: I, I do wanna, I want to make sure that we get out the, the questions that are relevant tothe use.

MW: Okay.

KH: I mean, did you at any time every take any action in furtherance of obtaining physicalpossession of those remains for your skeletal collection at FGCU.

HWH: No I didn’t.

KH: And if you wanted to do that how would you have gone about doing that?

HWH: I would have reminded all the stakeholders again, the sheriff’s office, the detective, themedical examiner, and then I would’ve uh, signed a form from the medical examiner thatwould give you know final custody to me.

MD: And where, where are those remains in these two reports today?

HWH: Those remains are at the District 21 office of the medical examiner.

MW: Right. They are…

MD: And who has possession, custody, and control of those remains as we speak today?


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HWH: The medical examiner’s office.

MD: And did ever…any time ever use those remains for teaching purposes?

HWH: Because of the nature of what I do I bring students with me. So when I was firstanalyzing the case, yes. It ended up being used for teaching purposes. But have I usedthem in the normal course of instruction, no.

MD: But that was during your analysis…

HWH: Yeah.

MD: …for the M.E.

HWH: Yeah.

MD: So that was why you had the students there?

HWH: Yeah.

MD: Right. But it…you didn’t bring it out of the M.E.’s office to the classroom.

HWH: Oh. No. No.

MD: Right?

KH: Last two questions that I think are important…

MW: Hum.

KH: …for you guys to know.

MW: Okay.

KH: The report that you wrote for Barbara Walter in 2006…

HWH: Um-hum.

KH: …did you provide her with a copy of that report?

HWH: Yes.

KH: Did she object to anything that you had written in the report at that time?

HWH: Oh no.

KH: Same thing with Rebecca’s. Did you provide her a copy of your report?

HWH: Yes.


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KH: And did she object to anything that was written in the report at that time?

HWH: No.

MW: Right.

KH: If anybody is disagreeing with any of your statements in the report do you have anexplanation for why they would be disagreeing?

HWH: No.

KH: Do you know why somebody would say that they didn’t say what you said in the report?

HWH: They have a bad memory.

AR: To follow-up on the first one though the one we talked about, the co-mingled human andanimal remains. It says though the remains will be curated with HWH skeletal collection.Did those, and, and I know you, you probably just answered it, and…well did they evermake it to the, did those remains ever make it to the HWH skeletal collection?

HWH: No.

AR: So they’re still there and they’re not at FGCU?

HWH: No.

AR: And that was in September, oh I’m sorry. You dated this one 27, October of 2006. Anyreason why they never made it there?

MD: Any reason they never made it to the HWH collection?

AR: Um-hum. At, at FGCU.

MD: Right.

AR: Like the…

HWH: Because I was busy with forensic cases. It wasn’t that that was just a note so that as,when things slowed down we could follow up with the medical examiner, sign the paper,and transfer custody. But um, I’ve been too busy to think about things like this.

AR: And now, and then the next one is the second, the second case which was theunidentified skull in the a…which ultimately in…rather than Santeria be Palo Mayombebut…it says, and, and I would be, we’d be negligent if we didn’t ask you this. It said theLee County Sheriff Office has donated these specimens to me for teaching purposes.To the best of your knowledge can the Lee County Sheriff’s Office donate humanremains to anyone or would they come under authority of the medical examiner’s office?

HWH: That’s a hard question to answer because multiple agencies become involved in thisprocess. But the paragraph above my note says that these remains are not of forensic


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significance. That means that they are no longer a forensic case. Also in the paragraphabove I talk about how they are most likely anatomical specimens, teaching specimens.They were specimens from people who agreed to donate their bodies to science.

AR: Sure. Um…

HWH: And that’s so important but then um…

AR: That…I’m, I don’t mean to interrupt…

HWH: …to continue on in answering your question…

AR: Let me just jump in really quick.

HWH: Um-hum.

AR: We can’t say that for sure that they were ever donated. I mean we have no proof thatthose…although it appears that they could be that. That would be your opinion but thereis no written or documentation or otherwise that shows that they are.

MD: Do you have any idea how those human remains came to be store bought specimens?

AR: And that’s in this Palo Mayombe case.

HWH: Based upon my experience at the CA pound lab, when I evaluate human remains and Inotice the taphonomic, or um, postmortem changes to be found, um, that I mentionedin the report, that is consistent with remains that have been used in teaching. Remainsthat are typically purchased. Remains, human remains that have been in the donationsystem. That’s why it’s so important that I put on the report the remains were not offorensic significance. Usually when they’re not of forensic significance then they’reconsidered property because they do not have next of kin.

AR: Sure.

HWH: It’s been my experience at the pound lab that when these remains are consideredproperty that the sheriff’s offices or police investigating agencies then would take um,custody, especially of Santeria or Palo Mayombe stuff and they would keep it. And so asa matter of course I just documented what was told to me by the detective and will befollowed up with the medical examiner.

AR: Okay. So just, just out of curiosity thought, in a hypothetical situation you find a bone inthe woods…

HWH: Um-hum.

AR: …who’s to the best of your knowledge, who’s property is that? Without you even lookingat it. I mean who, would that, does that not, and to, to your knowledge it’s that then thejurisdiction then of the medical examiner.

HWH: Well it really depends because if it’s greater…


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AR: If it’s human.

HWH: …that seven to five years old it’s actually the property of the state archeologist.

AR: Until, well until you find out which, if it’s an unidentified grave for example.

HWH: Well actually um, I know that there are archeological firms that are called out on thescenes that police are not involved in that the medical examiner’s not involved in but thehuman remains in therein are the immediate custody of the state archeologist.

AR: Okay. Unfortunately though this case isn’t really that. This one was of a skull, possiblywhatever else found in an iron pot. So it’s def…it’s probably not gonna be anarcheological exam or a, or a case.

HWH: It’s interesting that you say that because actually until C-14 dating is done on that(unintelligible) which cost about seven hundred dollars per it actually could be a statearcheologist case.

AR: Sure.

HWH: Based upon the morphology and taphonomy.

AR: But until that time that those tests are done who…

HWH: That’s…

AR: …has jurisdiction? That would be…

HWH: Well that’s why they ask me for my opinion.

AR: Sure.

HWH: And said it was not of forensic significance. And that I mentioned Asian ancestry.

AR: And but, uh, I mean it, and bear with, bear me out on this, it appears thought that theM.E. was called in and then at that time does not the M.E. take jurisdiction of that untilyou can figure out what they are and who they are?

HWH: Yes.

AR: Even if it’s a hog bone for example.

HWH: Um, actually there are times when I’m called out on hog bones that the M.E. is neverinvolved in and in fact they don’t issue a case number.

AR: Sure. But what I’m saying is before you’re involved in it. I mean obviously you wereinvolved after the M.E.’s office.

MD: Right. I think your point is, who is she suppose to go speak to about a donation of theseremains for this particular report?


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AR: No, no, no. I’m just…ultimately but not right at this second. What I’m just tryin’ to find outis who’s jurisdiction would a, these bones be? Do you…

HWH: I don’t know.

AR: And then you would have no…but…so you don’t know then if the Lee CountySheriff…and, and if we don’t ask it, I mean I’m not gonna know. How…does the LeeCounty Sheriff’s Office have a right to donate specimens for you for teaching purposesin this particular case? Do you know or…

HWH: I don’t know.

AR: Okay. So, but…

HWH: That’s (unintelligible)

AR: …that’s just a note saying then…what? That, just, it’s basically just a note for you toremind you?

HWH: Um-hum.

AR: Okay. Fair enough.

MW: Okay. Go ahead.

MD: Oh, I was gonna say is that it?

AR: (laughing) Any other questions from you guys?

HWH: (laughing)

AR: Anything else?

MW: Heather you got anything you wanna, I mean…

AR: To add?

MD: Yeah, she’s (unintelligible)

HWH: I could go on forever, but no.

AR: Well, you know, (unintelligible).

HWH: (laughing)

MD: And we say that uh, jokingly.

AR: Sure. You understand though what our position is. We were approached by persons onpossible allegations of, you know…

MD: Right. The two persons are…


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AR: …wrong doing.

MD: …Karen Warren and a Priscilla Doyle.

MW: Are we done. Let’s get this off tape.

HWH: (laughing)

KH: Why don’t you go ahead and, and take off. If you guys have a couple minutes…

MD: Yeah. We, we’d like to talk off of that thing.

MW: This is, this is gonna conclude the interview. The time is 10:01 am. Same date.

The reason why there are two parts to Dr. Walsh-Haney’s statement is that SA Walsh’s digitalrecorder stopped recording at one point and had to be shifted to a second folder to record therest of the statement. It is believed that there was no significant time loss between the firstrecording and the second.

SA Walsh placed a copy of both portions of the above transcribed statement as well as theCDR containing the statements into the Related Items section of this investigation.


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The following investigative report details the document Special Agent (SA) Michael Walshreceived from District 5 Medical Examiner (ME) Dr. Barbara Wolf in reference to theinvestigation into Heather Walsh-Haney.

On April 29, 2008, SA Michael Walsh contacted Dr. Wolf via phone concerning investigationinto Walsh Haney and specifically if she had donated Walsh-Haney any human remains forteaching purposes for District 21 ME case # 00730. (Dr. Wolf was formally the ME for District21 in Fort Myers, Fl).

Dr. Wolf stated that she did not under any circumstances donate any human remains to Walsh-Haney in reference to the case being inquired about and faxed SA Walsh a letter stipulating tothat fact.

SA Walsh placed a copy of Dr. Wolf’s letter into the Related Items section of this investigation.


Case Number:FM-73-0762 Serial #:5Author:Walsh, Michael Office:Ft. MyersActivity Start Date:04/30/2008 Activity End Date:04/30/2008Approved By:Rose, AndrewDescription:Dr. Wolf fax.THIS REPORT IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE AGENCY TO WHICH IT WASDISSEMINATED AND MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS EITHER PRIVILEGED ORCONFIDENTIAL AND EXEMPT FROM DISCLOSURE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW. ITSCONTENTS ARE NOT TO BE DISTRIBUTED OUTSIDE YOUR AGENCY.

Page1 357720140422081735

FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT

Case Related Items Print

Case #FM-73-0762

Module

RI Seq # Key 1 (Case #) Key 2 Key 3 File NameLast UpdateDateDescription

Last UpdateBy

Administrative Log

ADL-1 FM-73-0762 1 07 HWHSummaryForSAO.doc Summary 04/30/200813:46:22

Rose, Andrew

Case #FM-73-0762

Module


Last UpdateBy

Investigative Report

INV-1 FM-73-0762 1 Sworn Statements for Pricilla Doyle 02/20/200809:45:41

Austin, Ronnie

INV-2 FM-73-0762 1 Sworn Statement for Karen Warren 02/20/200809:46:36

Austin, Ronnie

INV-3 FM-73-0762 1 Sworn Statement for Pam Strassel 02/20/200809:46:59

Austin, Ronnie

INV-4 FM-73-0762 1 Documents Re: Jacksonville Cases 02/20/200809:47:44

Austin, Ronnie

INV-5 FM-73-0762 1 Documents Re: Fort Myers Cases 02/20/200809:48:06

Austin, Ronnie

INV-6 FM-73-0762 1 E-Mail from Dr. Ryan Wheeler 02/20/200809:48:53

Austin, Ronnie

INV-7 FM-73-0762 4 CDR + transcribed statements 04/15/200812:35:03

Walsh, Michael

04/22/2014 08.19.032Page of1

FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT

Case Related Items Print

Case #FM-73-0762

Module


Last UpdateBy

Investigative Report

INV-8 FM-73-0762 5 Dr. Wolf fax 04/30/200812:58:49

Walsh, Michael

04/22/2014 08.19.032Page of2

2008 FDLE Investigation of Heather Walsh-Haney

Documents

Transcript of 2008 FDLE Investigation of Heather Walsh-Haney