The Defence Committee
The Defence Committee is appointed by the House of Commons to examine the expenditure, administration, and policy of the Ministry of Defence and its associated public bodies.
Current membership
Rt Hon James Arbuthnot MP (Conservative, North East Hampshire) (Chairman) Mr David S Borrow MP (Labour, South Ribble) Mr David Crausby MP (Labour, Bolton North East) Linda Gilroy MP (Labour, Plymouth Sutton) Mr David Hamilton MP (Labour, Midlothian) Mr Mike Hancock MP (Liberal Democrat, Portsmouth South) Mr Dai Havard MP (Labour, Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney) Mr Adam Holloway MP (Conservative, Gravesham) Mr Bernard Jenkin MP (Conservative, North Essex) Mr Brian Jenkins MP (Labour, Tamworth) Mr Kevan Jones MP (Labour, Durham North) Robert Key MP (Conservative, Salisbury) John Smith MP (Labour, Vale of Glamorgan) Richard Younger-Ross MP (Liberal Democrat, Teignbridge) The following Members were also Members of the Committee during the Parliament: Mr Colin Breed MP (Liberal Democrat, South East Cornwall) Derek Conway MP (Conservative, Old Bexley and Sidcup) Mr Mark Lancaster MP (Conservative, North East Milton Keynes) Willie Rennie MP (Liberal Democrat, Dunfermline and West Fife) Mr Desmond Swayne MP (Conservative, New Forest West)
Powers
The Committee is one of the departmental select committees, the powers of which are set out in House of Commons Standing Orders, principally in SO No 152. These are available on the Internet via www.parliament.uk.
Publications
The Reports and evidence of the Committee are published by The Stationery Office by Order of the House. All publications of the Committee (including press notices) are on the Internet at: www.parliament.uk/defcom.
Committee staff
The current staff of the Committee are Mike Hennessy (Clerk), Richard Ward (Second Clerk), Ian Rogers (Audit Adviser), Lis McCracken (Inquiry Manager), Richard Dawson (Senior Committee Assistant), Christine McGrane (Committee Assistant) and Stewart McIlvenna (Committee Support Assistant).
Contacts
All correspondence should be addressed to the Clerk of the Defence Committee, House of Commons, London SW1A 0AA. The telephone number for general enquiries is 020 7219 5745; the Committee’s email address is [email protected]. Media inquiries should be addressed to Alex Paterson on 020 7219 1589.
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 1
Proceedings of the Committee
Wednesday 9 November 2007
Mr James Arbuthnot visited the Ministry of Defence Health Unit, Frimley Park, Hampshire in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 23 October 2007.
TUESDAY 13 NOVEMBER 2007
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard
Mr Adam HollowayMr Bernard Jenkin Mr Brian Jenkins Robert Key
1. Ministry of Defence Annual Report and Accounts 2006-07
The Committee considered this matter.
Ordered, That the written evidence relating to the Ministry of Defence Annual Report and Accounts 2006-07 submitted by the National Audit Office be reported to the House for publication on the internet.
Ordered, That the National Audit Office be authorised to publish its written evidence, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 135.
2. Visit to Defence Equipment and Support
Resolved, That the Committee visit Defence Equipment and Support at Abbey Wood, Bristol, in connection with its inquiry into Defence Equipment.
3. Travel in a representative capacity
Resolved, That Mr David Crausby have leave to visit Naples to attend the conference of EU Defence Committee Chairmen on 16-17 December in a representative capacity.
4. Use of laptop computers by witnesses
Resolved, That witnesses be permitted to refer to laptop computers or other small electronic devices unless the Committee orders otherwise.
5. Ministry of Defence Annual Report and Accounts 2006-07
The Committee considered its proceedings.
2 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08
6. Ministry of Defence Annual Report and Accounts 2006-07
Mr Bill Jeffrey CB, Permanent Under-Secretary of State, and Mr Trevor Woolley CB, Finance Director, Ministry of Defence, gave oral evidence.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 20 November at 10.00 a.m.
Thursday 15 November 2007
Mr Adam Holloway attended the seminar on Naval Defence, Paris in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 9 October 2007.
Friday16 November 2007
Mr Mike Hancock visited the Ministry of Defence Health Unit, Portsmouth, Hampshire in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 23 October 2007.
TUESDAY 20 NOVEMBER 2007
MORNING SITTING
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr David Hamilton Mr Adam Holloway Mr Bernard Jenkin
Mr Brian JenkinsMr Kevan Jones Robert Key Willie Rennie John Smith
1. The future of NATO and European defence
The Committee considered this matter.
2. Winter Supplementary Estimate
Ordered, That the written evidence relating to the Winter Supplementary Estimate submitted by the Ministry of Defence be reported to the House for publication on the internet.
3. Government Response: The work of Defence Estates
The Committee considered this matter.
4. The future of NATO and European defence
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 3
General Sir Jack Deverell KCB OBE, Lieutenant-General Sir Rob Fry KCB CBE, Mr Daniel Keohane and Colonel Christopher Langton OBE gave oral evidence.
[Adjourned till today at 4.30 p.m.
TUESDAY 20 NOVEMBER 2007
AFTERNOON SITTING
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr David Hamilton Mr Dai Havard Mr Bernard Jenkin
Mr Brian JenkinsMr Kevan Jones Robert Key Willie Rennie
1. The work of Defence Estates
The Committee considered this matter.
Draft Special Report (The work of Defence Estates: Government Response to the Fifteenth Report from the Committee, Session 2006-07), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.
The Government’s response to the Fifteenth Report from the Committee, Session 2006-07, was appended to the Report.
Resolved, That the Report be the First Special Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
2. UK land operations in Iraq 2007
The Committee considered this matter.
Draft Report (UK land operations in Iraq 2007), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.
Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 to 98 read and agreed to.
Annexes [List of Abbreviations and Visit Note] and Summary agreed to.
Resolved, That the Report be the First Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
4 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08
Ordered, That embargoed copies of the Report be made available, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 134.
Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for printing with the Report, together with written evidence reported and ordered to be published on 24 July and 9 October.
[Adjourned till Wednesday 21 November at 9.00 a.m.
WEDNESDAY 21 NOVEMBER 2007
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard Mr Adam Holloway
Mr Bernard JenkinMr Kevan Jones Willie Rennie
1. The UK/US Defence Trade Cooperation Treaty
The Committee considered this matter.
2. Medical care for the Armed Forces
Ordered, That the following written evidence relating to Medical care for the Armed Forces be reported to the House for publication on the internet:
K P Mizen; and
Terry Lewis.
3. The UK/US Defence Trade Cooperation Treaty
Mr Ian Godden, Secretary, Defence Industries Council, and Chief Executive Officer, Society of British Aerospace Companies, Mr David Hayes, Chairman, Export Group for Aerospace and Defence, and Director of Export Controls, Dr Jerry McGinn, US Aerospace Industries Association, Dr Sandy Wilson, President and Managing Director, General Dynamics UK, and Ms Alison Wood, Group Strategic Development Director, BAE Systems, gave oral evidence.
Rt Hon Baroness Taylor of Bolton, Minister for Defence Equipment and Support, Mr Stephen French, Director General Acquisition Policy, Mr Tony Pawson, Head of Defence Export Services, and Ms Gloria Craig, Director General International Security Policy, Ministry of Defence, and Mr Paul Lincoln, Head of Defence and Security Policy, Cabinet Office, gave oral evidence.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 27 November at 10.00 a.m.
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 5
Friday 23 November 2007
Mr Kevan Jones visited the Ministry of Defence Health Unit, Northallerton, North Yorkshire, and Linda Gilroy visited the Ministry of Defence Health Unit, Derriford, Plymouth, Devon in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 23 October 2007.
TUESDAY 27 NOVEMBER 2007
MORNING SITTING
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr David Hamilton Mr Mike Hancock Mr Adam Holloway
Mr Brian JenkinsMr Kevan Jones Robert Key Willie Rennie John Smith
1. Medical care for the Armed Forces
The Committee considered this matter.
Derek Twigg, a Member of this House, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Lieutenant General Robert Baxter CBE, Deputy Chief of the Defence Staff (Health), Lieutenant General Louis Lillywhite MBE QHS, Surgeon-General, Ministry of Defence, Ben Bradshaw, a Member of this House, Minister of State for Health Services, Professor Louis Appleby, Mental Health Clinical Director, and Andrew Cash, Co-Chair, DH/MoD Partnership Board, Department of Health, gave oral evidence.
[Adjourned till today at 4.30 p.m.
TUESDAY 27 NOVEMBER 2007
AFTERNOON SITTING
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr David Hamilton Mr Adam Holloway
Mr Bernard JenkinMr Brian Jenkins Robert Key Willie Rennie
1. Winter Supplementary Estimate: Cost of operations in Iraq and Afghanistan
6 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08
Draft Report (Winter Supplementary Estimate: Cost of operations in Iraq and Afghanistan), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.
Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 to 25 read and agreed to.
Annexes (Summary and List of Abbreviations) agreed to.
Resolved, That the Report be the Second Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
Ordered, That embargoed copies of the Report be made available, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 134.
Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for printing with the Report, together with written evidence reported and ordered be published on 20 November.
2. Petition
The Committee considered the petition to the House from residents of Castle Point and others concerning members of HM Armed Forces serving in Iraq and Afghanistan.
[Adjourned till Wednesday 28 November at 10.00 a.m.
WEDNESDAY 28 NOVEMBER 2007
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr David Hamilton Mr Mike Hancock Mr Bernard Jenkin
Mr Brian JenkinsMr Kevan Jones Robert Key Willie Rennie
1. Ministry of Defence Annual Report and Accounts 2006-07
The Committee considered this matter.
Ordered, That written evidence submitted by the Public and Commercial Services Union be reported to the House for publication on the internet.
2. Defence Equipment
Ordered, That written evidence submitted by the British Limbless Ex-servicemen’s Association be reported to the House for publication on the internet.
3. Ministry of Defence Annual Report and Accounts 2006-07
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 7
Mr Bill Jeffrey CB, Permanent Under-Secretary of State, and Mr Trevor Woolley CB, Finance Director, Ministry of Defence, gave oral evidence.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 4 December at 9.30 a.m.
TUESDAY 4 DECEMBER 2007
MORNING SITTING
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Dai Havard Mr Bernard Jenkin
Mr Brian JenkinsMr Kevan Jones Robert Key Willie Rennie
1. The Fulton Report
The Committee considered this matter.
Resolved, That the Committee now take evidence in private.
Air Chief Marshal Sir Jock Stirrup GCB AFC ADC RAF, Chief of the Defence Staff, General Sir Timothy Granville-Chapman GBE KCB ADC Gen, Vice Chief of the Defence Staff, Admiral Sir Jonathon Band KCB ADC, First Sea Lord and Chief of the Naval Staff, and Mr Nick Gurr, Director of Communications Planning, Ministry of Defence, gave oral evidence.
[Adjourned till today at 4.30 p.m.
TUESDAY 4 DECEMBER 2007
AFTERNOON SITTING
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Adam Holloway Mr Bernard Jenkin Mr Brian Jenkins
Mr Kevan JonesRobert Key Willie Rennie John Smith
1. UK/US Defence Trade Cooperation Treaty
8 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08
Draft Report (UK/US Defence Trade Cooperation Treaty), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.
Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 to 52 read and agreed to.
Annexes (Summary and List of Abbreviations) agreed to.
Resolved, That the Report be the Third Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
Ordered, That embargoed copies of the Report be made available, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 134.
Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for printing with the Report.
Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for placing in the Library and Parliamentary Archives.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 11 December at 10.00 a.m.
TUESDAY 11 DECEMBER 2007
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr David Hamilton Mr Dai Havard
Mr Bernard JenkinMr Brian Jenkins Mr Kevan Jones Robert Key Willie Rennie
1. The Iran hostages incident: the lessons learned
Draft Report (The Iran hostages incident: the lessons learned), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.
Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 to 24 read and agreed to.
Summary agreed to.
Resolved, That the Report be the Fourth Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 9
Ordered, That embargoed copies of the Report be made available, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 134.
Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for printing with the Report.
Resolved, That the Chairman write to the Secretary of State for Defence with the Committee’s classified conclusions and recommendations.
2. Medical care for the Armed Forces
Ordered, That the following written evidence relating to Medical care for the Armed Forces be reported to the House for publication on the internet:
Ministry of Defence;
Haslar Task Force;
Scottish Executive;
Ministry of Defence;
Martin Deahl ; and
Caroline Richards.
3. The future of NATO and European defence
Ordered, That the following written evidence be reported to the House for publication on the internet:
Geoffrey Van Orden;
Christopher Mayer;
Joanna Kaminska;
David Galbreath;
BASIC;
CND;
Clive Archer; and
Romanian Embassy.
3. Overseas Visits
Resolved, That the Committee visit Bahrain and Iraq in connection with its inquiries into UK land operations in Iraq, and the Iran hostages incident: the lessons learned, and that the Chairman seek the approval of the Liaison Committee for expenditure in connection with the visit.
10 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08
Resolved, That the Committee visit Pakistan and Afghanistan in connection with its inquiry into UK operations in Afghanistan, and that the Chairman seek the approval of the Liaison Committee for expenditure in connection with the visit.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 8 January at 4.00 p.m.
Sunday 16 – Monday 17 December 2007
Mr James Arbuthnot and Mr David Crausby visited Naples, Italy in accordance with the Committee decisions of 9 October and 13 November2007 .
TUESDAY 8 JANUARY 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard
Mr Adam HollowayMr Bernard Jenkin Mr Kevan Jones Robert Key Willie Rennie
1. The future of NATO and European defence
The Committee considered this matter.
Rt Hon Des Browne MP, Secretary of State for Defence, and Mr Andrew Mathewson, Director, Policy on International Organisations, Ministry of Defence, and Hon Hugh Powell, Head, Security Policy Group, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, gave oral evidence.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 15 January at 10.00 a.m.
TUESDAY 15 JANUARY 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Mike Hancock Mr Adam Holloway
Mr Bernard JenkinMr Kevan Jones Robert Key John Smith
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 11
1. The Ministry of Defence Annual Report and Accounts 2006-07
Draft Report (The Ministry of Defence Annual Report and Accounts 2006-07), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.
Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 to 155 read and agreed to.
Summary agreed to.
Resolved, That the Report be the Fifth Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
Ordered, That embargoed copies of the Report be made available, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 134.
Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for printing with the Report, together with written evidence reported and ordered to be published on 13 November.
2. Defence Equipment
Ordered, That the written evidence submitted by the Ministry of Defence be reported to the House for publication on the internet.
3. The future of NATO and European defence
Ordered, That the following written evidence be reported to the House for publication on the internet:
Daniel Keohane; and
Michael Codner.
4. UK Defence: commitments and resources
Ordered, That the following written evidence be reported to the House for publication on the internet:
Council for National Parks;
Ministry of Defence;
Prospect;
James Elder; and
Intellect.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 22 January at 10.00 a.m.
12 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08
TUESDAY 22 JANUARY 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Dai Havard Mr Bernard Jenkin
Mr Kevan JonesRobert Key John Smith
1. The work of the Committee 2007
Draft Report (The work of the Committee 2007), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.
Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 to 72 read and agreed to.
Annexes agreed to.
Resolved, That the Report be the Sixth Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
2. Future Programme
The Committee considered its future programme.
Resolved, That the Committee inquire into issues of recruitment and retention in the Armed Forces, with an emphasis on the recruitment and retention of ethnic minority personnel .
Resolved, That the Committee inquire into ISTAR (Intelligence, Surveillance, Target Acquisition and Reconnaissance).
Resolved, That the Committee inquire into the MoD rôle in homeland security and UK resilience.
3. Petition
The Committee considered the petition to the House from residents of Castle Point and others concerning members of HM Armed Forces serving in Iraq and Afghanistan; and the Government’s Observations thereon.
4. Shrivenham Seminar
Resolved, That the Committee visit Shrivenham in February 2008 for a seminar on the future work of the Committee.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 29 January at 10.00 a.m.
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 13
TUESDAY 29 JANUARY 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard Mr Adam Holloway Mr Bernard Jenkin
Mr Brian JenkinsRobert Key John Smith Mr Richard Younger-Ross
1. Declaration of interests
Mr Richard Younger-Ross declared his interests, in accordance with the Resolution of the House of 13 July 1992. For details of the declaration, see Annex attached.
2. Defence Equipment 2008
The Committee considered this matter.
3. Travel in a representative capacity
Ordered, That the Chairman and Clerk visit Ljubljana in connection with the meeting of Chairmen of Defence Committees of the EU Member States on 2-3 March 2008.
4. The future of NATO and European defence
Ordered, That CND be authorised to publish their memorandum, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 135.
5. Authority to travel
Resolved, That the Committee on Arms Export Controls visit Kiev in March 2008 in connection with its inquiry into Strategic Export Controls.
6. Homeland Security and Resilience
Resolved, That the Committee request written evidence from the Ministry of Defence on homeland security and resilience.
7. Oral evidence: Defence Equipment 2008
General Sir Kevin O’Donoghue KCB CBE, Chief of Defence Materiel, David Gould CB, Chief Operating Officer, Defence Equipment & Support, and Lieutenant-General Dick Applegate OBE, Chief of Materiel (Land), Ministry of Defence, gave oral evidence.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 5 February at 10.00 a.m.
ANNEX
DECLARATION OF INTERESTS
14 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08
YOUNGER-ROSS, Richard (Teignbridge)
31 March-6 April 2006, to Egypt, on fact-finding visit to meet parliamentarians and NGOs, at the invitation and expense of the Egyptian Government. (Registered 26 March 2007);
21-25 August 2006, to Israel and the Palestinian Territories, on fact-finding visit to meet parliamentarians and ministers, at the invitation and expense of the Universal Peace Federation, Interreligious and International Federation of World Peace, London. (Registered 26 March 2007);
29 September-6 October 2007, to Dharamsala, North India, to meet the Tibetan Parliament in exile, including a meeting with the Dalai Lama. The costs of the visit were paid for by the Tibet Society. (Registered 7 November 2007).
TUESDAY 5 FEBRUARY 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Mr David Hamilton Mr Dai Havard Mr Adam Holloway
Mr Brian JenkinsMr Kevan Jones Robert Key John Smith
1. Medical care for the Armed Forces
Draft Report (Medical care for the Armed Forces), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.
Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 to 119 read and agreed to.
Annexes (List of Abbreviations and Report on the Committee web-forum) and Summary agreed to.
Resolved, That the Report be the Seventh Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
Ordered, That embargoed copies of the Report be made available, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 134.
Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for printing with the Report, together with written evidence reported and ordered to be published on 22 May, 24 July, 9 October, 21 and 28 November and 11 December.
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 15
Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for placing in the Library and Parliamentary Archives.
2. UK land operations in Iraq 2007
Ordered, That the Government response to the Committee’s Report be reported to the House for publication on the internet.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 19 February at 10.00 a.m.
Tuesday 12 February 2008
Mr Kevan Jones visited the Ministry of Defence Health Unit, James Cook University Hospital in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 23 October 2007.
TUESDAY 19 FEBRUARY 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Linda Gilroy Mr David Hamilton Mr Adam Holloway Mr Bernard Jenkin Mr Brian Jenkins
Mr Kevan JonesRobert Key John Smith Richard Younger-Ross
1. UK land operations in Iraq 2007
The Committee considered this matter.
Draft Special Report (UK land operations in Iraq 2007: Government Response to the First Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.
The Government’s response to the First Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08, was appended to the Report.
Resolved, That the Report be the Second Special Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
2. UK/US Defence Trade Cooperation Treaty
Ordered, That the Government response to the Committee’s Report be reported to the House for publication on the internet.
3. The Iran hostages incident: the lessons learned
16 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08
Ordered, That the Government response to the Committee’s Report be reported to the House for publication on the internet.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 26 February at 10.00 a.m.
TUESDAY 26 FEBRUARY 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Mike Hancock Mr Adam Holloway
Mr Bernard JenkinMr Brian Jenkins Robert Key Richard Younger-Ross
1. UK/US Defence Trade Cooperation Treaty
The Committee considered this matter.
Draft Special Report (UK/US Defence Trade Cooperation Treaty: Government Response to the Third Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.
The Government’s response to the Third Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08, was appended to the Report.
Resolved, That the Report be the Third Special Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
2. Unmanned Aerial Vehicles
Resolved, That the Committee inquire into Unmanned Aerial Vehicles.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 4 March at 10.00 a.m.
TUESDAY 4 MARCH 2008
MORNING SITTING
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy
Mr Bernard JenkinMr Brian Jenkins Mr Kevan Jones
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 17
Mr Mike Hancock Mr Adam Holloway
Robert KeyJohn Smith
1. Operational costs in Afghanistan and Iraq: Spring Supplementary Estimates 2007–08
Draft Report (Operational costs in Afghanistan and Iraq: Spring Supplementary Estimates 2007–08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.
Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 to 21 read and agreed to.
Resolved, That the Report be the Eighth Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for printing with the Report.
2. The future of NATO and European defence
The Committee considered this matter.
[Adjourned till today at 4.30 p.m.
TUESDAY 4 MARCH 2008
AFTERNOON SITTING
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Mike Hancock Mr Adam Holloway
Mr Bernard JenkinMr Brian Jenkins Mr Kevan Jones Robert Key John Smith
1. The future of NATO and European defence
Draft Report (The future of NATO and European defence), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.
Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 to 5 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 6 read.
18 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08
Amendment proposed, in line 14, after “Alliance” to insert “becoming more important than NATO in the minds of many EU members of NATO”.—(Mr Bernard Jenkin.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
Ayes, 3 Noes, 6
Mr Mike Hancock Mr David S Borrow
Mr Adam Holloway Mr David Crausby
Mr Bernard Jenkin Linda Gilroy
Mr David Hamilton
Mr Brian Jenkins
John Smith
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraphs 7 to 35 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 36 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 6, at the end, to add “and the rising importance of EU defence”.—(Mr Bernard Jenkin.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
Ayes, 3 Noes, 6
Mr Mike Hancock Mr David S Borrow
Mr Adam Holloway Mr David Crausby
Mr Bernard Jenkin Linda Gilroy
Mr David Hamilton
Mr Brian Jenkins
John Smith
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraphs 37 to 166 read and agreed to.
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 19
Paragraph 167 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 6, after “capabilities.” to insert “We are concerned that some European nations regard pooling of resources as a way to avoid spending more money on defence.”.—(Mr Bernard Jenkin.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
Ayes, 4 Noes, 6
Mr Mike Hancock Mr David S Borrow
Mr Adam Holloway Mr David Crausby
Mr Bernard Jenkin Linda Gilroy
Robert Key Mr David Hamilton
Mr Brian Jenkins
John Smith
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraphs 168 to 239 read and agreed to.
A paragraph—(Mr Bernard Jenkin)—brought up and read, as follows:
Under the Lisbon Treaty the European Defence Agency (EDA) is given treaty status and is granted wide powers. Under Article 28A (3) the EDA “shall identify operational requirements” and “shall participate in defining a European capabilities and armaments policy”. Under Article 28D (1b &c) the EDA is tasked to “promote harmonisation of operational needs and adoption of effective, compatible procurement methods” and “to propose multilateral projects”. The UK has no veto either over the decisions defining the Agency’s statute (Article 28D (2)), or over membership of the EDA, or over decisions of the steering board (Article 9 (2) of the EDA Statute CJA 2004/551/CFSP), all of which are to be taken by QMV. Article 28D (2) also obligates the Agency to “carry out its tasks in liaison with the Commission where necessary”. This, together with “leading role in the Agency’s structure” granted to the High Representative who is also a member of the Commission under the EDA Statute [CJA 2004/551/CFSP, preamble (9)], gives the Commission influence over the work of the EDA.
Ordered, That the paragraph be read a second time.
Question put, That the paragraph be added to the Report.
The Committee divided.
20 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08
Ayes, 3 Noes, 7
Mr Mike Hancock Mr David S Borrow
Mr Adam Holloway Mr David Crausby
Mr Bernard Jenkin Linda Gilroy
Mr David Hamilton
Mr Brian Jenkins
Robert Key
John Smith
Paragraph disagreed to.
Paragraphs 240 to 243 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 244 read.
Amendment proposed, in lines 22 to 23, to leave out from “The Defence” to “products” and insert “Recognising that the EDA has a very limited budget at present, we would be concerned if the lack of a national veto in EDA led to pressure for “developing defence capabilities” and “European armaments cooperation” which excluded interoperability with the United States, so that, for example, the Defence Procurement Code became a vehicle for European protectionism by excluding American products.”.—(Mr Bernard Jenkin.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
Ayes, 3 Noes, 7
Mr Mike Hancock Mr David S Borrow
Mr Adam Holloway Mr David Crausby
Mr Bernard Jenkin Linda Gilroy
Mr David Hamilton
Mr Brian Jenkins
Robert Key
John Smith
Paragraph agreed to.
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 21
Paragraphs 245 to 265 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 266 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 9, after “relations” to insert “by affirming that key decisions about future EU operations will be taken and implemented through the Berlin Plus arrangements rather than unilaterally by the EU”.—(Mr Bernard Jenkin.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
Ayes, 4 Noes, 6
Mr Mike Hancock Mr David S Borrow
Mr Adam Holloway Mr David Crausby
Mr Bernard Jenkin Linda Gilroy
Robert Key Mr David Hamilton
Mr Brian Jenkins
John Smith
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraphs 267 to 273 read and agreed to.
Paragraphs—(Mr Bernard Jenkin)—brought up and read, as follows:
For the foreign secretary to claim that Permanent Structured Cooperation is “focused solely on developing EU Member State [military] capability”, he must be satisfied that the PSC does not constitute any kind of obligation on the UK. The Protocol states:
“member states participating in permanent structured cooperation shall undertake to.... (b) bring their defence apparatus into line with each other as far as possible, particularly by harmonising the identification of their military needs… [and] (c) take concrete measures to enhance the availability, interoperability, flexibility and deployability of their forces, in particular by identifying common objectives regarding the commitment of forces, including possibly reviewing their national decision-making procedures.”
While decisions within PSC are explicitly by unanimity only, a Member State which “no longer fulfils the criteria or is no longer able to meet the commitments” laid out in the Protocol, members of the PSC may decide by QMV to suspend it [Article 28E (4)]. This may place great pressure on Member States participating in QMV to acquiesce to a majority view rather than risk suspension or expulsion.
22 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08
The foreign secretary also accepted that “forces could be deployed under PSC” [Hansard, 20 February 2008 col 381]. If military deployments were agreed within PSC from which a member state had been excluded, this would amount to their loss of the veto over key aspects of EU military policy. Moreover, even if expelled, non-members of PSC remain under obligation to “support the Union’s external and security policy actively and unreservedly in a spirit of loyalty and mutual solidarity and shall comply with the Union’s action in this area… They shall refrain from any action which is contrary to the interests of the Union or likely to impair its effectiveness as a cohesive force in international relations.” [Article 11 (3) and (4)] Again, this would place great pressure on Member States participating in PSC to acquiesce to a majority view rather than risk being placed in such a situation.
Along with the incorporation of the European Defence Agency into the EU structure, governed by QMV and with its formal relationship with the EU Commission, the powers given to the establishment of PSC in the Lisbon Treaty provide for flexibility and dynamism for decision making in EU defence policy which is wholly lacking in NATO. We would be concerned if this led to further duplication of NATO functions or threatened the primacy of NATO in UK defence policy. However, we welcome the Government’s assertion that neither the EDA nor the PSC will undermine NATO.
Ordered, That the paragraphs be read a second time.
Question put, That the paragraphs be added to the Report.
The Committee divided.
Ayes, 3 Noes, 7
Mr Mike Hancock Mr David S Borrow
Mr Adam Holloway Mr David Crausby
Mr Bernard Jenkin Linda Gilroy
Mr David Hamilton
Mr Brian Jenkins
Robert Key
John Smith
Paragraphs disagreed to.
Paragraph 274 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 275 read.
Amendment proposed, in line 23, after “matters” to insert “which are concerns the government expressed in its 2003 submission to the Constitutional Convention opposing the principle of PSC” [“The UK has made clear that it cannot accept the proposed ESDP
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 23
reinforced cooperation provisions. While we support Member States making higher capability commitments and co-operating with partners to this end, the approach described here—a self-selecting inner group—undermine the inclusive, flexible, model of ESDP that the EU has agreed.” Submission to Constitutional Convention].”.—(Mr Bernard Jenkin.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
Ayes, 4 Noes, 6
Mr Mike Hancock Mr David S Borrow
Mr Adam Holloway Mr David Crausby
Mr Bernard Jenkin Linda Gilroy
Robert Key Mr David Hamilton
Mr Brian Jenkins
John Smith
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraphs 276 to 282 read and agreed to.
Annexes (List of abbreviations; Committee visits; NATO members and partner countries; Defence spending by NATO and EU member states; and Text of the North Atlantic Treaty, 4 April 1949) and Summary agreed to.
Resolved, That the Report be the Ninth Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
Ordered, That embargoed copies of the Report be made available, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 134.
Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for printing with the Report, together with written evidence reported and ordered to be published on 19 June, 11 December and 15 January.
Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for placing in the Library and Parliamentary Archives.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 11 March at 10.00 a.m.
TUESDAY 11 MARCH 2008
24 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr David Hamilton Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard
Mr Bernard JenkinMr Brian Jenkins Mr Kevan Jones Robert Key Richard Younger-Ross
1. Defence Equipment 2008
Draft Report (Defence Equipment 2008), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.
Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 to 193 read and agreed to.
Annex (List of abbreviations) and Summary agreed to.
Resolved, That the Report be the Tenth Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
Ordered, That embargoed copies of the Report be made available, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 134.
Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for printing with the Report.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 18 March at 10.00 a.m.
TUESDAY 18 MARCH 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Adam Holloway Mr Bernard Jenkin
Mr Brian JenkinsMr Kevan Jones Robert Key Richard Younger-Ross
1. Petitions
The Committee considered the following petitions to the House:
• From the residents of Chorley and others on the “Military Covenant”, presented by Mr Lindsay Hoyle MP on 27 February 2008;
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 25
• From Canvey Island Royal British Legion, Castle Point and others on health and welfare support for veterans, presented by Bob Spink MP on 3 March 2008;
• From the residents of Castle Point and others on more generous policies towards the Armed Forces, presented by Bob Spink MP on 4 March 2008.
2. The Iran hostages incident: the lessons learned
The Committee considered this matter.
Draft Special Report (The Iran hostages incident: the lessons learned: Government Response to the Fourth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.
The Government’s response to the Fourth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08, was appended to the Report.
Resolved, That the Report be the Fourth Special Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
3. Travel in a representative capacity
Resolved, That two Members and a member of staff have leave to visit Germany to attend Exercise CO-OP SPIRIT on 20-21 September in a representative capacity.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 25 March at 10.00 a.m.
TUESDAY 25 MARCH 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Mike Hancock Mr Adam Holloway
Mr Bernard JenkinMr Kevan Jones Robert Key Richard Younger-Ross
1. Recruitment and retention in the Armed Forces
The Committee considered this matter.
Professor Christopher Dandeker, King’s College London, and Professor Hew Strachan DL, All Souls College, Oxford, gave oral evidence.
Mrs Dawn McCafferty, Chairman, RAF Families Federation, Julie McCarthy, Chief Executive, Army Families Federation, and Mrs Elizabeth Sheldon, Project Director, SSAFA Forces Help, gave oral evidence.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 1 April at 10.00 a.m.
26 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08
TUESDAY 1 APRIL 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Mike Hancock Mr Adam Holloway
Mr Bernard JenkinMr Kevan Jones Robert Key Richard Younger-Ross
1. Recruitment and retention in the Armed Forces
The Committee considered this matter.
Ordered, That the following written evidence be reported to the House for publication on the internet:
Armed Forces Pay Review Body;
Dr Alex Alexandrou;
Ministry of Defence;
WRVS;
Institute of Career Guidance; and
Equality and Human Rights Commission.
2. Visit to Armed Forces Careers Office
Resolved, That the Committee visit the Armed Forces Careers Office at St George’s Court, Holborn, in connection with its inquiry.
3. Industry visit
Resolved, That the Committee visit AgustaWestland at Yeovil.
4. Ministry of Defence Annual Reports and Accounts 2006-07
The Committee considered this matter.
Draft Special Report (Ministry of Defence Annual Report and Accounts 2006-07: Government Response to the Fifth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.
The Government’s response to the Fifth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08, was appended to the Report.
Resolved, That the Report be the Fifth Special Report of the Committee to the House.
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 27
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
5. Petition
The Committee considered the petition to the House from the friends of All Saints, Southill, the parishioners of Southill, Byng family members and the supporters of Admiral John Byng on a posthumous pardon for Admiral Byng, presented by Alistair Burt MP on 19 March 2008.
6. ISTAR: Unmanned Aerial Vehicles
Resolved, That the Committee visit Thales at Crawley in connection with its inquiry.
7. Recruitment and retention in the Armed Forces
Tim Corry, Campaigning Director, and Sarah Baxter, National Relationship Manager, SaBRE, gave oral evidence.
Richard Longson, President, and Kieran Gordon, former President, Institute of Career Guidance, gave oral evidence.
Christopher Beese MBE, Chief Administrative Officer, Armor Group, and Chris Sanderson, Director of Government Support, Control Risks, gave oral evidence.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 22 April at 10.00 a.m.
TUESDAY 22 APRIL 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr David Hamilton Mr Mike Hancock Mr Adam Holloway
Mr Bernard JenkinMr Brian Jenkins Mr Kevan Jones Robert Key John Smith
1. Recruitment and retention in the Armed Forces The Committee considered this matter. Ordered, That the following written evidence be reported to the House for publication on the internet:
British Medical Association; and
Richard Wildridge.
28 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08
2. Industry visit
Resolved, That the Committee visit BAE Systems at Warton.
3. Visit to Southampton
Resolved, That Mr David S Borrow and Linda Gilroy have leave to visit Southampton with the Committees on Arms Export Controls.
4. Travel in a representative capacity
Resolved, That Mr Bernard Jenkin and Mr Kevan Jones have leave to visit the Battlegroup Certification Exercise, Salisbury Plain in a representative capacity.
5. Visits to Training Establishments
Resolved, That the Chairman and Mr Kevan Jones have leave to visit ATR Bassingbourn and HMS Raleigh in connection with the inquiry into Recruitment and retention in the Armed Forces.
6. Ministry of Defence Main Estimate 2008-09
Resolved, That the Committee inquire into the MoD Main Estimate 2008-09.
7. Recruitment and retention in the Armed Forces
Mr Chris Baker OBE, Director General Service Personnel Policy, Air Vice-Marshal Simon Bryant CBE, Chief of Staff (Personnel) and Air Secretary, Major-General Andrew Gregory, Deputy Adjutant-General and Director General Services Conditions (Army), Major-General Simon Lalor TD, Assistant Chief of the Defence Staff (Reserves and Cadets), Rear Admiral Charles Montgomery CBE, Chief of Staff (Personnel) and Naval Secretary, and Vice-Admiral Peter Wilkinson CVO, Deputy Chief of the Defence Staff (Personnel), gave oral evidence.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 29 April at 10.00 a.m.
Thursday 24 April 2008
Mr David S Borrow and Linda Gilroy visited the Port of Southampton in accordance with the decision of the Committee of Tuesday 1 April 2008.
Tuesday 29 April 2008
Mr James Arbuthnot, Mr David S Borrow, Mr David Crausby, Mr David Hamilton, Mr Bernard Jenkin, Mr Brian Jenkins, Mr Kevan Jones and Richard Younger-Ross visited the Armed Forces Careers Information Office, Holborn in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 1 April 2008.
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 29
TUESDAY 6 MAY 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard
Mr Bernard JenkinMr Brian Jenkins Robert Key Richard Younger-Ross
1. ISTAR
Ordered, That the following written evidence be reported to the House for publication on the internet:
Ministry of Defence;
BAE Systems;
Royal Aeronautical Society;
Lee Bruce and Dr Robert Crowcroft;
Intellect;
Ministry of Defence (supplementary);
Thales UK; and
Civil Aviation Authority.
2. Medical care for the Armed Forces
The Committee considered this matter.
Draft Special Report (Medical care for the Armed Forces: Government Response to the Seventh Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.
The Government’s response to the Seventh Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08, was appended to the Report.
Resolved, That the Report be the Sixth Special Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
3. Industry visit
Resolved, That the Committee visit Marshall of Cambridge.
4. Travel in a representative capacity
30 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08
Ordered, That Mr Bernard Jenkin visit Brussels in connection with the Security and Defence Agenda conference on NATO in the next decade on 3 June 2008.
5. ISTAR
Air Vice-Marshal Simon J. Bollom, Director General Combat Air, Air Vice-Marshal Stuart Butler, Capability Manager (Information Superiority) and Air Vice-Marshal Chris Nickols CBE, Assistant Chief of the Defence Staff (Operations), Ministry of Defence, gave oral evidence.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 13 May at 10.00 a.m.
Monday 12 May 2008
Mr Bernard Jenkin and Mr Kevan Jones visited the Battlegroup Certification Exercise, Salisbury Plain in a representative capacity in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 22 April.
TUESDAY 13 MAY 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard
Mr Bernard JenkinMr Brian Jenkins Mr Kevan Jones Robert Key
1. ISTAR
The Committee considered this matter.
Ordered, That the following written evidence relating to ISTAR be reported to the House for publication on the internet:
Northrop Grumman;
SBAC; and
General Dynamics.
Mr David Barnes, Thales UK/UAVS, Mr Simon Jewell, BAE Systems/SBACm, Mr Clive Richardson, QinetiQ/Intellect, and Dr Moira Smith, Waterfall Solutions/DMA, gave oral evidence.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 20 May at 10.00 a.m.
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 31
Wednesday 14 – Thursday 15 May 2008
Mr James Arbuthnot, Mr David Hamilton, Mr Bernard Jenkin, Mr Brian Jenkins and Robert Key visited AgustaWestland, Yeovil in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 1 April 2008.
Monday 19 May 2008
Mr James Arbuthnot visited the Army Training Regiment, Bassingbourn and Mr Kevan Jones visited HMS Raleigh, Cornwall in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 22 April.
TUESDAY 20 MAY 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Mike Hancock Mr Adam Holloway
Mr Bernard JenkinMr Kevan Jones Robert Key Richard Younger-Ross
1. Recruitment and retention in the Armed Forces
The Committee considered this matter.
Ordered, That the following written evidence be reported to the House for publication on the internet:
Robin Short, Martin Kinsella and David J Walters;
David Gee;
Institute of Career Guidance (Supplementary); and
Naval Families Federation.
2. UK national security and resilience
Ordered, That the following written evidence be reported to the House for publication on the internet:
Morgan Aquila;
32 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08
Ministry of Defence;
DEMOS; and
VT Group.
3. Operational costs in Afghanistan and Iraq: Spring Supplementary Estimate 2007–08
Ordered, That the Government response to the Committee’s Report be reported to the House for publication on the internet.
4. Overseas Visit
Resolved, That the Committee visit Australia in autumn 2008, and that the Chairman seek the approval of the Chairman of the Liaison Committee for expenditure in connection with the visit.
5. Recruitment and retention in the Armed Forces
Mr Derek Twigg MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence, and Vice-Admiral Peter Wilkinson CVO, Deputy Chief of the Defence Staff (Personnel), gave oral evidence.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 3 June at 10.00 a.m.
Monday 2 – Tuesday 3 June 2008
Mr Bernard Jenkin visited Brussels, Belgium in a representative capacity in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 6 May 2008.
TUESDAY 3 JUNE 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Mr David Hamilton Mr Dai Havard
Mr Adam HollowayMr Brian Jenkins Richard Younger-Ross
1. ISTAR
The Committee considered this matter.
Ordered, That the following written evidence be reported to the House for publication on the internet:
Finmeccanica UK;
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 33
L-3 Communications UK; and
Ministry of Defence (Supplementary).
2. Defence Equipment 2008
Ordered, That the Government response to the Committee’s Report be reported to the House for publication on the internet.
3. The future of NATO and European defence
Ordered, That the Government response to the Committee’s Report be reported to the House for publication on the internet.
4. ISTAR
Mr John Howe CB OBE, Vice-Chairman, Mr Victor Chavez, Vice-President, Business Development, Sales & Marketing, Mr Chris Day, Business Executive, UAV Systems and Mr Nick Miller, Head of UAV Systems Business Development, Thales UK, gave oral evidence.
Mr John Brooks, Vice-President, International Business Development, Mr Graham Thornton, Executive Director, and Colonel Edward Walby USAF (Ret), Director, Business and Strategy Development, Northrop Grumman, gave oral evidence.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 10 June at 10.00 a.m.
TUESDAY 10 JUNE 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David S Borrow Linda Gilroy Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard
Mr Adam Holloway Mr Bernard Jenkin Mr Brian Jenkins Robert Key
1. Defence Equipment 2009
The Committee considered this matter.
Draft Special Report (Defence Equipment 2009: Government response to the Tenth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.
The Government’s response to the Tenth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08, was appended to the Report.
Resolved, That the Report be the Seventh Special Report of the Committee to the House.
34 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
2. The future of NATO and European defence
The Committee considered this matter.
Draft Special Report (The future of NATO and European defence: Government response to the Ninth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.
The Government’s response to the Ninth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08, was appended to the Report.
Resolved, That the Report be the Eighth Special Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
3. Future programme
Resolved, That the Committee inquire into the MoD’s Annual Report and Accounts 2007-08.
Resolved, That the Committee inquire into Defence Equipment.
Resolved, That the Committee seek oral evidence from the Secretary of State for Defence or the Minister for the Armed Forces before the summer adjournment on the matters of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Resolved, That the Committee agree to meet concurrently with the Foreign Affairs Committee for the purpose of taking oral evidence for the Defence and Foreign Secretaries on the matters of Iraq and Afghanistan after the summer adjournment.
Resolved, That the Committee seek funds for a Committee seminar in Shrivenham.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 17 June at 10.00 a.m.
TUESDAY 17 JUNE 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr David Hamilton Mr Dai Havard
Mr Bernard JenkinMr Kevan Jones Robert Key Richard Younger-Ross
1. UK national security and resilience
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 35
The Committee considered this matter.
Ordered, That the following written evidence be reported to the House for publication on the internet:
SBAC;
Fujitsu; and
Intellect UK.
2. Recruitment and retention in the Armed Forces
Ordered, That the further supplementary memorandum from the Ministry of Defence be reported to the House for publication on the internet.
3. UK operations in Iraq and Afghanistan
Resolved, That the Committee take oral evidence from the Minister for the Armed Forces.
4. FRES
Resolved, That the Committee take oral evidence from the Minister for Defence Equipment and Support.
5. UK national security and resilience
Mr Tony Baptiste, Manager (Business Development and Strategy), Fujitsu Defence and Security, Fujitsu, Mr John Higgins CBE, Director-General, Intellect UK, Mr David Livingstone MBE DSC, Managing Partner, Morgan Aquila LLP, Mr Hugo Rosemont, Policy Adviser, Security and Resilience, SBAC and Mr Doug Umbers, Managing Director, VT Communications, VT Group plc, gave oral evidence.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 1 July at 10.00 a.m.
Sunday 22 – Friday 27 June 2008
Mr James Arbuthnot, Mr David S Borrow, Mr David Crausby, Mr Dai Havard, Mr Bernard Jenkin and Mr Kevan Jones visited Iraq and the Gulf in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 11 December 2007.
TUESDAY 1 JULY 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy
Mr Adam HollowayMr Bernard Jenkin Mr Brian Jenkins
36 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08
Mr David Hamilton Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard
Mr Kevan JonesRobert Key John Smith
1. Farnborough Air Show
Resolved, That the Committee visit the Farnborough Air Show.
2. Ministry of Defence Main Estimates 2008-09
Draft Report (Ministry of Defence Main Estimates 2008-09), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.
Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 to 28 read and agreed to.
Summary agreed to.
Resolved, That the Report be the Eleventh Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 15 July at 10.00 a.m.
Saturday 5 – Friday 11 July 2008
Mr James Arbuthnot, Mr David S Borrow, Mr David Crausby, Mr Dai Havard, Mr Adam Holloway, Mr Bernard Jenkin and Richard Younger-Ross visited Pakistan and Afghanistan in accordance with the decision of the Committee on 11 December 2007.
Monday 14 July 2008
Mr James Arbuthnot, Linda Gilroy, Mr Bernard Jenkin, Mr Kevan Jones and John Smith visited the Farnborough Air Show in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 1 July 2008.
TUESDAY 15 JULY 2008
MORNING SITTING
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David Crausby Mr Bernard Jenkin
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 37
Linda Gilroy Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard Mr Adam Holloway
Mr Kevan JonesRobert Key John Smith Richard Younger-Ross
1. The contribution of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles to ISTAR capability
Draft Report (The contribution of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles to ISTAR capability), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.
Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 to 143 read and agreed to.
Annex (List of abbreviations) and Summary agreed to.
Resolved, That the Report be the Thirteenth Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
Ordered, That embargoed copies of the Report be made available, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 134.
Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for printing with the Report, together with written evidence reported and ordered to be published on 6 and 13 May and 4 June.
2. Recruitment and retention in the Armed Forces
Draft Report (Recruiting and retaining Armed Forces personnel), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.
Ordered, That the Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 to 203 read and agreed to.
Annexes (List of abbreviations and The Committee’s web forum) and Summary agreed to.
Resolved, That the Report be the Fourteenth Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
Ordered, That embargoed copies of the Report be made available, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 134.
Written evidence was ordered to be reported to the House for printing with the Report, together with written evidence reported and ordered to be published on 1 and 22 April and 20 May.
[Adjourned till today at 4.00 p.m.
38 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08
TUESDAY 15 JULY 2008
AFTERNOON SITTING
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David Crausby Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard
Mr Bernard Jenkin Robert Key
1. UK operations in Iraq and the Gulf
Draft Report (UK operations in Iraq and the Gulf), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.
Ordered, That the Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 to 52 read and agreed to.
Annex (List of abbreviations) and Summary agreed to.
Resolved, That the Report be the Fifteenth Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
Ordered, That embargoed copies of the Report be made available, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 134.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 7 October at 10.00 a.m.
Monday 8 – Tuesday 9 September 2008
Mr James Arbuthnot visited St Malo, France in a representative capacity.
Saturday 20 – Sunday 21 September 2008
Mr Brian Jenkins visited Regensburg, Germany in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 18 March 2008..
Wednesday 1 – Thursday 2 October 2008
Mr James Arbuthnot, Linda Gilroy, Bernard Jenkin, Kevan Jones and Robert Key visited Defence Equipment & Support, Abbey Wood and Ministry of Defence Counter Terrorism and Technology Centre, Porton Down, Salisbury in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 13 November 2007.
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 39
TUESDAY 7 OCTOBER 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Mike Hancock Mr Bernard Jenkin
Mr Brian JenkinsRobert Key John Smith Richard Younger-Ross
1. Ministry of Defence Main Estimates 2008-09
Ordered, That the Government response to the Committee’s Report be reported to the House for publication on the internet.
2. UK operations in Iraq and the Gulf
Ordered, That the Government response to the Committee’s Report be reported to the House for publication on the internet.
3. Recruiting and retaining Armed Forces personnel
Ordered, That the Government response to the Committee’s Report be reported to the House for publication on the internet.
4. The contribution of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles to ISTAR capability
Ordered, That the Government response to the Committee’s Report be reported to the House for publication on the internet.
5. Travel in a representative capacity
Resolved, That the Chairman, Mr David Crausby and the Clerk have leave to visit Paris in October for the Conference of EU Defence Committee Chairmen, and that the Chairman seek the approval of the Chairman of the Liaison Committee for expenditure in connection with the visit.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 21 October at 10.00 a.m.
Wednesday 15 – Thursday 16 October 2008
Mr James Arbuthnot, Mr David S Borrow, Mr David Crausby, Mr Dai Havard, Mr Adam Holloway, Mr Bernard Jenkin, Mr Brian Jenkins, Robert Key and John Smith visited the Defence Academy, Shrivenham in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 22 January 2008.
40 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08
TUESDAY 21 OCTOBER 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Mr David Hamilton Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard
Mr Adam HollowayMr Bernard Jenkin Mr Brian Jenkins John Smith
1. UK operations in Iraq and the Gulf
The Committee considered this matter.
Draft Special Report (UK operations in Iraq and the Gulf: Government response to the Fifteenth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.
The Government’s response to the Fifteenth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08, was appended to the Report.
Resolved, That the Report be the Ninth Special Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
2. Ministry of Defence Main Estimates 2008-09
The Committee considered this matter.
Draft Special Report (Ministry of Defence Main Estimates 2008-09: Government response to the Eleventh Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.
The Government’s response to the Eleventh Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08, was appended to the Report.
Resolved, That the Report be the Tenth Special Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
3. Recruiting and retaining Armed Forces personnel
The Committee considered this matter.
Draft Special Report (Recruiting and retaining Armed Forces personnel: Government response to the Fourteenth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 41
The Government’s response to the Fourteenth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08, was appended to the Report.
Resolved, That the Report be the Eleventh Special Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
4. The contribution of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles to ISTAR capability
The Committee considered this matter.
Draft Special Report (The contribution of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles to ISTAR capability: Government response to the Thirteenth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.
The Government’s response to the Thirteenth Report from the Committee, Session 2007-08, was appended to the Report.
Resolved, That the Report be the Twelfth Special Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman make the Report to the House.
5. Petitions
The Committee considered the following petitions to the House:
• From the friends of All Saints, Southill, the parishioners of Southill, Byng family members and the supporters of Admiral John Byng, calling for a posthumous pardon to be granted to Admiral Byng, presented by Alistair Burt MP on 19 March, and the Government observations thereon, and
• From the Havant Ex-Servicemen’s Club, the Havant Royal British Legion and others of like disposition, requesting that the Government be urged to grant citizenship to all former Gurkhas and their families, presented by Mr David Willetts on 8 July, and the Government observations thereon.
6. UK national security and resilience
The Committee considered this matter.
Ordered, That the written evidence relating to UK national security and resilience submitted by Clive Murgatroyd be reported to the House for publication on the internet.
Rt Hon Bob Ainsworth, Minister of State for the Armed Forces, Mr Jon Day CBE, Policy Director, and Brigadier Chip Chapman, Director (Military) Counter-Terrorism ands UK Operations, Ministry of Defence, Admiral Lord West of Spithead GCB DSC, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Security and Counter-Terrorism, and Ms Gillian McGregor, Head of Operational Support and Knowledge Management, Office for Security and Counter-Terrorism, Home Office, and Ms Chloe Squires, National Security Secretariat, Cabinet Office, gave oral evidence.
42 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08
[Adjourned till Tuesday 28 October at 2.15 p.m.
Sunday 26 – Monday 27 October 2008
Mr James Arbuthnot and Mr David Crausby visited Paris, France in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 7 October 2008.
TUESDAY 28 OCTOBER 2008
[The Committee met concurrently with the Foreign Affairs Committee]
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot Mr David S Borrow Linda Gilroy Mr Dai Havard
Mr Adam Holloway Mr Bernard Jenkin Robert Key Richard Younger-Ross
The following members of the Foreign Affairs Committee were also present, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 137A (Select committees: power to work with other committees).
Mr Mike Gapes Sir Menzies Campbell Mr David Heathcoat-Amory Mr Eric Illsley
Mr Paul KeetchMr Malcolm Moss Mr Ken Purchase Sir John Stanley
Mr Mike Gapes was called to the Chair
1. Iraq and Afghanistan
The Committees considered their lines of inquiry.
Rt Hon John Hutton MP, Secretary of State for Defence, and Lieutenant-General Peter Wall CBE, Deputy Chief of the Defence Staff (Commitments), Ministry of Defence, and Rt Hon David Miliband MP, Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, and Sir Mark Lyall-Grant KCMG, Director-General, Political Directorate, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, gave oral evidence.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 4 November at 9.45 a.m.
TUESDAY 4 NOVEMBER 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 43
Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Dai Havard Mr Adam Holloway
Mr Bernard JenkinMr Brian Jenkins Robert Key Richard Younger-Ross
1. Ministry of Defence Annual Report and Accounts 2007-08
The Committee considered its lines of inquiry.
2. Choice of inquiries
Resolved, That the Committee inquire into the Defence Support Group.
Resolved, That the Committee inquire into Readiness and Recuperation for the Tasks of today.
Resolved, That the Committee inquire into the work of the Service Complaints Commissioner.
Resolved, That the Committee inquire into defence relations with Russia.
Resolved, That the Committee inquire into current and future helicopter capability.
Resolved, That the Committee inquire into ISTAR with regard to network-enabled capability and the Defence Information Infrastructure.
Resolved, That the Committee inquire into the ‘Comprehensive Approach’.
Resolved, That the Committee inquire into the Ministry of Defence’s main and supplementary estimates.
3. Overseas travel: Russia and the Baltic
Resolved, That the Committee visit Russia, Latvia, Georgia and Estonia in the first quarter of 2009 in connection with its inquiry into defence relations with Russia, and that the Chairman seek the approval of the Liaison Committee for expenditure in connection with the visit.
4. Overseas travel: Brussels
Resolved, That the Committee visit Brussels in the first quarter of 2009 in connection with its inquiry into defence relations with Russia.
5. Ministry of Defence Annual Report and Accounts 2007-08
Sir Bill Jeffrey KCB, Permanent Under Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence, and Mr Trevor Woolley CB, Finance Director, Ministry of Defence, gave oral evidence.
[Adjourned till Wednesday 12 November at 2.00 p.m.
WEDNESDAY 12 NOVEMBER 2008
44 Formal Minutes Session 2007–08
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David S Borrow Mr David Crausby Linda Gilroy Mr Mike Hancock Mr Dai Havard
Mr Adam Holloway Mr Bernard Jenkin Mr Brian Jenkins Robert Key John Smith
1. Ministry of Defence Annual Report and Accounts 2007-08
The Committee considered its lines of inquiry.
2. Defence Equipment 2008
Ordered, That Unite Amicus Section be authorised to publish their written evidence, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 135.
3. Committees on Arms Export Controls
Resolved, That Mr Adam Holloway be nominated to represent the Defence Committee at the Committees on Arms Export Controls, in place of Linda Gilroy.
4. Petition
The Committee considered the petition to the House from Havant Ex-Servicemen’s Club, the Havant Royal British Legion and others concerning the treatment of Gurkhas.
5. Ministry of Defence Annual Report and Accounts 2007-08
Rt Hon John Hutton MP, Secretary of State for Defence, gave oral evidence.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 18 November at 10.00 a.m.
TUESDAY 18 NOVEMBER 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Linda Gilroy Mr David Hamilton Mr Brian Jenkins
Robert Key John Smith
1. Defence Equipment
The Committee considered its lines of inquiry.
Ordered, That the following written evidence be reported to the House for publication on the internet:
Formal Minutes Session 2007–08 45
Nicholas Brunt;
EDS;
EADS UK;
Unite Amicus Section;
VT Group;
Royal Aeronautical Society ;
Serco;
DIC;
KBM Consultants; and
Ministry of Defence.
2. Defence Equipment
The Chairman declared a non-pecuniary interest in relation to the Committee’s inquiry into Defence Equipment, in that Bob Keen had been his Private Secretary when he had been Minister for Defence Procurement. Mike Turner CBE, Chairman of the Defence Industries Council, Ian Godden, Secretary to the Defence Industries Council and Chief Executive of the Society of British Aerospace Companies, Sandy Wilson, Chairman of the Defence Manufacturers Association, and Bob Keen, Head of Government Relations, BAE Systems gave oral evidence.
[Adjourned till Tuesday 25 November at 10.00 a.m.
TUESDAY 25 NOVEMBER 2008
Members present:
Mr James Arbuthnot, in the Chair
Mr David S. Borrow Mr David Crausby Mr Adam Holloway Mr Bernard Jenkin
Mr Brian Jenkins Robert Key John Smith
1. Defence Equipment
The Committee considered its lines of inquiry.
General Sir Kevin O’Donoghue KCB CBE, Chief of Defence Materiel, Dr Andrew Tyler, Chief Operating Officer, DE&S, and Rear Admiral Paul Lambert CB, Capability Manager (Precision Attack) and Controller of the Navy gave oral evidence.
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