Announcer: BulletproofRadio:astateofhighperformance.
Dave: You'relisteningtoBulletproofRadiowithDaveAsprey.Today'scoolfactofthedayisthatsleepismoreimportantthanfood.Scientistsdidstudiesofsleepdeprivation,andtheworldrecordisactually11dayswithoutsleep,butalotofpeopledieafter10dayswithoutsleep.Youcangoacouplemonthswithoutfood,dependingonhowmuchfatyouhave,withoutdying.
Waterseemstobemoreimportantthansleep,sleepismoreimportantthanfood.Ifyou'rearegularlistener,you'veheardmesharemylistoftop10bio-hacks.Let'stalkaboutnumbernine:funhacksfortheBulletproofmind.Itmaysoundweird,buthangingupsidedownisagreatwaytohackyourbrain.Regularlyinvertingtrainsyourbraincapillaries,makingthemstrongerandmorecapable,tobringoxygentoyourbrain.It'sprettystraightforward.Moreoxygeninthebrainmeansbetterperformance.
IgetmydailystretchandmydoseofoxygenwithmyTeeterInversionTable,whichissoessentialforoptimumfocus,concentrationandmentalenergy.Thatfull-bodystretchelongatesthespineandtakesthepressureoffthedisks,sotheycanplumpbackup.Lesspressuremeanslesspain.Ifyouhavebackpain,evenifyou'vebeenluckyenoughtoavoiditsofar,youreallywantaTeetertoinverteverydaytokeepyourbackandjointsfeelinggreat.
Forover35years,Teeterhassetthestandardforqualityinversionequipmentyoucantrust.MyfriendsoveratTeeterhavedecidedtoshowsomelovetoBulletprooflisteners.Foralimitedtime,youcangettheTeeterInversionTablewithbonusaccessoriesandafreepairofgravitybootssoyoucaninvertathome,ortakethebootswithyoutothegym.
Togetthisdeal,whichisasavingsofover138bucks,gotoGetTeeterdotcom,slashBulletproof.You'llalsogetfreeshippinganda60-daymoney-backguarantee,andfreereturns.There'sabsolutelynoriskforyoutotryitout.Remember,youcanonlygettheTeeterwithbonusaccessoriesandafreepairofgravitybootsbygoingtoGetTeeterdotcom,slashBulletproof.G-E-T-T-E-E-T-E-Rdotcom,slashBulletproof.Checkitout.
Speakingofsleep,today'sguestisnoneotherthanAriannaHuffington,whohascomeoutinthelastcoupleyearswithalotofinformationaboutsleep,andactuallyhasawholenewstartup,ThriveGlobal,whichisreallyfocusedonquality-of-lifeandatonofinfoaboutsleep.ThisisaliveinterviewatoneofthelocationsforArianna'snewstartup,ThriveGlobal.It'sanewcontentplatform,andI'mactuallyprovidingcontentforAriannaonthatservice,soyoucanlearnaboutsomeoftheBulletproofperspectiveonsleep.
Welcometotheshow.
Arianna: Thankyousomuch.Greattobewithyou.
BPR-AriannaHuffington2017 Page 2 of 21
Dave: We'reatyourpop-upstoreinNewYork,andwe'reservingBulletproofCoffeehere,abouttodoabooksigningandjusthonoredtobeapartofit.YoujuststartedThriveGlobal.Beforewegetintoyourspecificsleephacksandinyourphonebed,whichisareallycoolthing,IwantedtojustkindofaskyouwhatmadeyougointhisdirectioninsteadoftalkingaboutbroadernewsthingsthatIdon'tknowifyou'retalkingabout.WhyThriveGlobal?
Arianna: Well,asyouknowDave,thelasttimeyouandIdidaninterview,itwasintheofficesoftheHuffingtonPostthatIfoundedandrunfor11years.InAugust,Idecidedtostepdown,inordertofollowthispassionofhelpingpeoplereducethestressandburnoutintheirlives,andleaveliveswithmorehealth,moreproductivityandmorehappiness.That'swhatThriveGlobalisabout.It'sbasicallyacompanythathasthreepillars.
Thefirstisamediaplatformthatbringstogetherthelatestscienceonsleepandburnoutandunpluggingfromtechnology,andtheconnectionwithperformance.Becauseinthepast,thesethingshavebeenassociatedwithrelaxingandchillingunderthemangotree.Wearenowshiftingtheprioritytobe"No,ifyoureallywanttoperformatyourbest,whichisreally,somuchwhatyouandBulletproofCoffeeareabout,thentakingcareofyourself,puttingyourownoxygenmaskfirst.Sleeping,unplugging,rechargingareessentialelementsofperformance.
Thesecondpillariscorporate.Wegointocorporationsandwehelpthemimprovetheirculture.
Dave: Nice.
Arianna: Aroundstressandproductivitywithmeasurableresults.SomeofourbigpartnersareAccenture,JPMorgan,Uber.
Dave: Wow.
Arianna: Thethirdpartiswhatyouseehere,commerce.BothanonlineplatformatThriveGlobaldotcom,andpop-upstoreswe'regoingtobedoingaroundtheworldthatbringtogetherthelatesttechnologyaroundwellness,aswellaswehavehere,abedroomwhichisasleepsanctuarytodemonstratehowyoucancreatethatenvironmentinyourlife.ProductslikethephonebedthatI'mgoingtogiveyouinaminutethathelpsyouunplugfromtechnology.
Thisissortofthethreecomponentsofthecompany.
Dave: It'sabigvision,there,andIlovethatyou'rereachingouttocompanies.IactivelydoeverythingIcantohackmyownemployeesatBulletproof,wherewegetthemneurofeedbackifthey'reatourheadquarters,andtheygetagenerousstipendtogetBulletproofProductseverymonthatnocostsotheycanperformbetter.Wetalkaboutsleepandwehaveculturecallsaboutstressandhurryavailabilitytrainingandallthesethings.
BPR-AriannaHuffington2017 Page 3 of 21
Because,asaCEO,andentrepreneur,Icarealotaboutmyemployees,butalso,asaventure-backedcompany,peoplewhoarehappierandlessstressedactuallygetmoreworkdoneandthey'renicertoeachotherandthey'renicertotheirfamiliesandeveryoneelsetoo,butitdoescostmore,butyougetitbackinproductivitysomuchmore.
Arianna: Absolutely,it'saprofitcenter.
Dave: Itis.
Arianna: That'swhatpeoplearerealizing.Whatwetellthecorporationsthatweareworkingwith,thatit'stimetogoupstream.LikealotofHRprogramsoperateafterthedisease-
Dave: Right.
Arianna: Hasmanifesteditself.Youknow,whetherit'stheactualdiseaselikediabetesorheartdisease,ordealingwithsymptomslikesmokingordrinking.Allthesearealreadydemonstrationsofsomeproblemsupstream,whichhavetodowithstress.Stressisaninevitablepartoflife,butwehaveallthesepathwaysandmicro-stepsand[inaudible00:06:39]coursesandtrainingsthathelppeoplerealizethattheycanactuallymakesurethatstressdoesnotbecomecumulative.
Dave: Right.
Arianna: Thatyoutakepausesduringtheday,towalk,tobreathe,tounplugfromyourtechnology,andthatyougetenoughsleep.Now,thisisakindofnon-negotiable.Youknow,we'veconvincedtheworldthatexerciseandnutritionareimportant.Whetherpeopledoitornot,they'veheardenoughaboutit,right?
Sleepisrelativelynew,asathirdpillarofhealth.
Dave: It'ssuchabigone.YousaidsomethingelseandIthinkitgotmyattention.Yousaidbreathing.There'sbreathingexercises,certainly,thathelpyougotosleepandallthat,butIwasjustchattingwithacolleagueandJeffBezosatAmazon,whentheybuiltnewskyscrapers,insistedthatthewindowshadtoopen.Theyhadtolikeredesignbuildings.
That'salsosomethingthatforthenextBulletproofHeadquarters,that'sonourlistofrequirements.Ifouremployees,andIcan'tbreatheclean,outsideair,thatrecirculates,we'renotgoingtoperform,becausewe'renotgoingtofeelaswell.Whywouldyouchoosetospendeighthoursadayin,basically,anaquarium.That'swhatthey'rebuilding.That'sjustnotcool.
Iwanteveryonelisteningtothistostartthinkingabout-
Arianna: Openingwindows.
BPR-AriannaHuffington2017 Page 4 of 21
Dave: Yeah,howdoyougettheair?Becauseyousleepbetterwithgoodair,andeverything'sbetterwhenyoucanbreathe.
Arianna: Absolutely,andit'sinterestingyoumentionedJeffBezos,becauseoneofthethingsourmediaplatformdoesistobringtogethernewrolemodelsforthisnewwayoflivingandperformingatyourbest.Thedaywelaunched,whichwasNovemberthirtieth,ourmediaplatformhadapiecebyJeffBezoswhichwasentitledWhyMySleepingEightHoursaNightIsGoodForAmazonShareholders.
Dave: Nice.
Arianna: We'retryingtomaketheconnectionbetweenaCEO,anentrepreneur,anybody,frankly,takingcareofthemselves,andthekindofdecisionstheymake.Becausethat'sreallythevaluewebringtoourbusinessesortoourjobsisourdecisionmaking.That'sdegradedwhenwearerunningonempty;whenwearerunningonfumes.
Dave: Right.Now,oneofthestudiesthatcaughtmyattention,andI've,admittedly,especiallywhenIwasyoungandfatandstressedallthetime,Idefinitelydidn'thavegoodsleephygiene.Probablybecausenoonehadinventedtheterm.Wedidn'tknowthat.Iwaslike"Iwouldratherreadsomethinginterestingthansleep,soI'lljustdothat."
Arianna: Right.
Dave: Eventually,youneverevenrememberwhatyoureadbecauseyou'resotired.WhatI'vefoundisthatbymakingmybodyworkbetter,Ijustnaturallywantlesssleep.Like,Idon'tneedeighthoursanightanymore.
Arianna: Well,youmaybesomebodywhohasageneticmutation.Yousee,aboutoneandahalfpercentofthepopulationhasageneticmutation.Youcantestyourselfforit,Ihavethetestthatyoucandoinmybook.Ifyouhaveageneticmutation,thenyoucangetfourorfivehoursandfeelgreat.IfIgetfourorfivehoursIfeellousy.
Itdoesn'tmatterhowmuchIexerciseor-
Dave: That's[inaudible00:09:50]verywell-
Arianna: HowwellIeat.
Dave: Yeah.
Arianna: Thescienceiscompletelyunequivocal.Ifyouhaveageneticmutation,great.Ifyoudon'thaveageneticmutation,youneedsomewherebetweenseventoninehours.Youmayneedseven,somebodyelsemayneednine,butthat'sreallytheconclusionofallsleepscience.Mostpeopledon'tevenknowwhatit'sliketooperateatoptimumlevel.
Dave: Oh,yeah,that'stotallytrue.
BPR-AriannaHuffington2017 Page 5 of 21
Arianna: Iknowformyself,Icollapsefromexhaustionandburnoutin2007.Ifyouwouldaskmethatmorning,"Arianna,howareyou?"Iwouldhavesaid"Great."
Dave: Yeah.
Arianna: BecauseIhadforgottenwhatgreatwas,youknow?Iwastiredallthetime.Myfriendswouldjoke.Like,ifyouputmeinamovietheater,inanydarkenedroom,Iwouldbeasleepwithinthreeseconds.
Dave: Iusedtohavethattoo,andIdon'tanymore.Exactlythatthing.It'slikeyou'renotquitenarcoleptic.
Arianna: Almost.
Dave: You'rejustreadytogotosleep.Now,Ihadasimilarexperience.Youfelldown,youpassedout,youbrokeyourjaw,right?IhadoneofthosesleepburnoutthingswhereI'dflownfromSanFranciscotoChina,gaveakeynotepresentation,hoppedonaplanetoFlorida,gaveakeynotepresentation.Then,wokeup,andwantedtogetsomecoffeeandwater,butdidn'thavetimebecauseofairlinesecuritystuff.
SoIcaughtafiveAMflightoutofFlorida,andontheairplane,Istillhadtogotothebathroom,andIwokeupfromthemostblissfulsleep,becauseIhadpassedoutintheaisle.Justlikewentstraightdown.Fortunately,Ididn'thitmyheadthattime.Itwas,youknow"Isthereadoctorontheairplane?"Kindofthing.Inthatcase,itwasexhaustion,right?AndlackofbloodpressurebecauseIwasdehydratedbecauseIcouldn'tgetwaterattheairport.Becausetheymakeyouthrowitawaybeforeyoufly,whichmakesnosense.
Arianna: Well,firstofall,canyouwriteaboutthat,becausehereisoneofthethingswe'redoingonThriveGlobaldotcom,isbothcollectingnewrolemodelstories,butalsocollectingstoriesofburnout.
Dave: Yeah.
Arianna: Becausewedon'tsharethesestoriesenough.Ofcourse,youknow,youandIwerelucky,buttherearemanyworsestories.
Dave: Youhavedriving.
Arianna: Yeah.TheCEOofUnitedAirlineswhocollapsedonhistreadmillandendedwithahearttransplant.OrtheheadofMandAorJPMorganwhodiedonhistreadmill.Therearestoriesofcollapsethatareinfinitelyworsethanyoursormine,butthey'reeverywhere.
Dave: Yeah.
Arianna: Theyareglobal.Weneedtocollectthem,becausethey'rekindofawarningsignal,thatpeoplecanmakechangesintheirliveswithouthavingtohavethepainfulwake-upcall
BPR-AriannaHuffington2017 Page 6 of 21
thattensofthousandsofpeoplehavehadaroundtheworld.Mostimportantformeistherecognitionthatyou'regoingtobemoreeffectiveatwhatyouwanttodo,youknow?
Wethinkwearesacrificingourhealthforthesakeofourjoborourbusiness,andthat'sjustacompletedelusion.I'mkindoffascinatedbyhowcomeanentireculturebelievessomethingfalse.I'vedonekindofthestudythatthroughouthistory,cultureshaveoftenbelievedfalsethings.Like,therewerecenturieswhenwebelievedthatthesunrevolvesaroundtheearth.Remember?Itwaslikethe-
Dave: Ithinkitstilldoes.
Arianna: Somepeoplemaystill.Ihopetheydon'tworkforBulletproofCoffee.
Dave: Goodpoint.
Arianna: Youknow,thelawsofnavigationwerebasedonthisfalsefoundation,whichledtomanyshipwrecks.Inthesameway,thelawsofworkingandlivingarebasedonthisfalseassumptionthatinordertosucceed,youhavetoburnout.
Youknow,youcangototelevisioncommercialsfromthe'60sandseedoctorsinwhitecoatsadvertisingcigarettes,becausewethoughtcigaretteswerecoolandglamorous.
Dave: Right.
Arianna: Eventhoughthesciencewasinthattheyactuallykillus.WethoughtBradandAngelinawouldlastforever.Thatwasanotherfalsethingwebelieved.It'stimetostopbelievingthatweneedtoburnoutinordertosucceed.That'skindofmypassion,that'swhatI'vecommittedtherestofmylifeto.Ifwecanchangetheculturearoundthat,wewilleliminatesomuchunnecessarysuffering.
Like,there'salotofsufferingintheworld.
Dave: Oh,yeah.
Arianna: RefugeesandpeoplebeingkilledbyrandomviolenceinChicago.Youknow?Youcandrawalonglistthatwecannotrightnowimmediatelysolve.Wecansolvealotofsufferingsimplybyconvincingpeopletostopbelievingsomethingwhichisscientificallyfalse.
Dave: It'strueonsomanyfronts.Alotofcompanieshaveplayedaroleinthat.You'retalkingaboutthingslikesaturatedfat.That'sbadforyou;diabetesandcancerareskyrocketingwhileyoueatlowfatdietsandfakefatandallthesethings.There'sallthesethingsthataregettingturnedoverbecausethemediaandsocialmediainparticular,wecantalkaboutwhatworks.
BPR-AriannaHuffington2017 Page 7 of 21
Ifthepartylineissmokingisgoodforyou,andyouneedtoeatbranmuffinsandnothingelse.Well,whathappenswheneveryonesays"Itdoesn'tworkandIfeellikecrapwhenIdothat."Eventually,thatmessagegetsheard.
Arianna: Right.
Dave: Whenpeopletellstoriesthewayyoudid,you'rereallycourageoustostandupto"Thisiswhathappenedinyourlast,orbookbeforethislastbook."Thathelpsbecausepeoplearesaying"Well,thestoryisthis,buttherealitythatI'mseeingisthis.Whyisthereamismatch"That'swhatwokemeupasabio-hacker,becauseIwasworkingoutsixdaysaweek,anhourandahalfaday.NomatterhowlittlesleepIgot,andIcutmycaloriesandIcutmyfat,becauseI'mlike300poundsandI'mdesperatetonotbefat.
Ineverlosttheweight.Igotstrong,andstayedfat.Atonepoint,I'mlikeit'snotthat...Youknow,Iwasburningoutofcourse.It'snotthatI'mweak,orit'snotthatI'mnottryinghardenough.WhichiswhyIlovedworkingout.
Arianna: Right.
Dave: Becauseofthatinternalmessage.It'sbecausethestuffI'mdoingjustdoesn'twork.Thatsamethinggoesinbusiness.Like,ifyou'rebeatingyourselftodeathinabusiness,andyoufeellikeyouhavetowork16-hourdaysandallthis,maybeyouneedtochangeyourstrategy.You'renotdoingbusinessverywell,right?
Arianna: Absolutely,andespeciallynow,thatsomanybusinessesseparateinmultipletimezones.
Dave: Yeah.
Arianna: Ifwedon'tlearntoworkinteams,ourworkisnotsustainable.Nohumanbeingcanbeupandavailableandonaroundmultipletimezones.That'swhyoneofthethingsweteachinourtrainingsande-coursesandwewritealotaboutislearningtodisconnectfromtechnology.Youknow,technology'samazing.TheHuffingtonPostwouldnotexistwithoutit.Alotofwhatyou'redoingwouldnothavebeenamplifiedwithoutit.
Dave: Right.
Arianna: Butweneedtosetboundaries.Forme,thekeyandmostnecessarythingistocreateatransitionfromourdaylifetoournightlifewhenwegotosleep.Wherewereallydisconnectfromourday,ourproblems.Mostpeoplesleepwiththeirphoneon,ontheirnightstand.
Dave: That'shorrifying,yeah.
Arianna: Sometimestheysleepwiththemundertheirpillow.
BPR-AriannaHuffington2017 Page 8 of 21
Dave: Wow,ifyouwanttogetbraincancer,andcognitivedysfunction,breakingthemitochondria,thatisanexcellentstrategy.
Arianna: Evenwithoutthat,you'reverylikelytowakeupinthemiddleofthenight,notbeabletofallimmediatelybackasleep,andfindyourselftexting,e-mailing,allgoingdowntherabbitholeofsocialmedia.WecreatedourfirstproductinourcommercedepartmentofThriveGlobal,isthephonebed,thatI'mgivingyouasagift.
Dave: Oh,thankyou.
Arianna: Ihopeyou'regoingtouseit.Hereisthephonebed.Itisbasicallyachargingstation.
Dave: Okay.
Arianna: Thathas10ports,butit'smadetolooklikeabed.
Dave: Nice.
Arianna: Becausehumanbeings-
Dave: Here,I'llholditupalittlebit.Here,I'lljustmakethecamerapointatithere.
Arianna: That'sokay,we'llputthatbackin,don'tworry.Humanbeingslearnthroughritual.Youputyourphonehere,youcanputeightphones.YouputyouriPadshere.
Dave: Right.
Arianna: Youtuckthemin,thisisthelittlesheetthatyoutuckthemin.Yousaygoodnighttothem.Thislivesoutsideyourbedroom,outsideyourchildren'sbedroomsifyouhavechildren.Youeducateyourchildrenthatfromthemomenttheygetaphone,theyknowwheretoputittosleep.
Dave: Wow.
Arianna: That'sbecause,youknowwhathappens.
Dave: Yeah.
Arianna: Bythetimeyourchildrenareteenagers,itbecomesabattle.Givemeyourphone.
Dave: Itdoes,right.
Arianna: Don'tsleepwithyourphone.
Dave: Right.
BPR-AriannaHuffington2017 Page 9 of 21
Arianna: Ifyoucaneducateeverybodyinthefamilytoseparatethemselvesfromthephones,thephonescharge,yourecharge,andyoureconnectinthemorning.We'regoingtopackthisupforyou.
Dave: Oh,thankyou.Doesitcomewiththephone?
Arianna: Comeswiththephone.No,butitcomesintwocolors,lightwoodordarkwood,whatdoyouprefer?
Dave: Ithinkthislooksgreat.
Arianna: Okay.
Dave: Thelightwoodisbeautiful.
Arianna: Great,youaregettingthelightwood.
Dave: Thankyou.Itsoundskindofridiculous,butit'snotatall,becausealotofthewaywe'rewiredisunconscious.
Arianna: Yes.
Dave: It'ssubconscious,sowedon'tnecessarilyknowthemessagesthatournervoussystemgets.Justhavingaritualthatsays"Allright,I'mgoingtodothis."
Arianna: Andhavingitliveoutsideyourbedroom.Thenwhathappensisthatwhenyouwakeupinthemorning,takejustoneminutetobreathe,tosetyourintentionfortheday,beforeyouimmediatelygotoyourphone.Becauseifyouthinkofit,thephoneistheportaltoeverythingtheworldwantsfromyou.
Dave: Yeah.
Arianna: Right?
Dave: Yeah.
Arianna: Ithinkit'sveryimportanttoestablish,whatdoyouwantfromtheworld.
Dave: Ithinkaminuteismaybealittleconservative,there.Itellyou,Iwakeup,myphone'sinairplanemode.Itismyalarmclock,becauseitsensesmymotion,butit'sneverturnedonatnight.It'salwaysinairplanemode.
Arianna: That'sunusual.
Dave: Yeah.
Arianna: TrytogetAmazonEchotowakeyouup.
BPR-AriannaHuffington2017 Page 10 of 21
Dave: Ihavetogetthat.
Arianna: Yeah,Alexa.YoucantellAlexa"Wakemeupatseven[inaudible00:20:05]time."WeprogrammedAlexawithmeditations.
Dave: Oh,great.Oh,cool.
Arianna: Youcansay"Alexa,playmetheThriveMeditationtosleep."
Dave: Thenitjustworks.
Arianna: Ifyouwakeupinthemiddleofthenight,youcanaskAlexatoplayyouthemeditationtosleep,sothatitcanputyourightbacktosleepnaturally,withoutstress.
Dave: Well,that'scool.
Arianna: Itcanwakeyouup,orhaveanold-fashionedalarmclock.
Dave: Inthemorning,though,Imadeacommitment.Iwakeup,ImakemyBulletproofCoffee,Itakemysupplements,Imakecoffeeformykids,andyes,theydrinkliketwoouncesofBulletproofbecauseIwanttogettheBrainOctaneinthembecausethey're-
Arianna: Howoldaretheynow?
Dave: Sevenandnine.
Arianna: Theydon'thavephonesyet.
Dave: No,theydon't.
Arianna: Bythetimetheyhavephones,you'llhavethephonebed.
Dave: Absolutely.
Arianna: Thenweknowwheretoputtheirphones.
Dave: MyphonestaysinairplanemodeallthattimeuntilIdropthemoffatschool.
Arianna: That'samazing.
Dave: Idon'tget-
Arianna: That'sincredibly-
Dave: Anymessages.Like,it'soff.
BPR-AriannaHuffington2017 Page 11 of 21
Arianna: Youknow,that'sveryrare,becausemostofusareaddicted.Like,Icouldn'tdothat.I'mnotasstrongasyouare.Ihavetohavemyphoneaway,becausethereisthatdopaminehitthatyouget.
Dave: Yeah.
Arianna: Thatmakesmostofusaddicts.Like,ifyou'reanaddict,analcoholaddict,youknow,youwouldn'thavebottlesofwinearound.
Dave: Right,right,right.
Arianna: Inthesameway,sincewearealladdictedtoourphonesinsomewayoranother,andmostpeopledon'thaveyourwillpower,wejustneedtoseparateourselves.
Dave: Thatworkswell,ya.
Arianna: Dotheritual.Sherry[inaudible00:21:34],youknowtheMITprofessorwho'swrittenthosegreatbooksaboutourrelationshipwithtechnologysaysthatifyou'rehavingdinnerwithafriendandyourphoneisonthetable,evenifitisoff,itaffectstheconversation.
Dave: Itdoes.
Arianna: It'sareminderofanotherrealitythatcaninterruptyourlifeatanymoment.
Dave: It'satoughone,becauseIgetallsortsofdataandIliketomeasurewhatworks.Ijusthadawhole-body,high-resolutionDEXAScandone.DEXAlooksatbonedensity,specifically.I,yearsago,madeacommitment,I'mnotcarryingmycellphoneinmyfrontpocketormybackpocket.Now,yourfrontpocketistooclosetothereproductiveequipment,andyourcellphonesareshowntoeffectthat,andIdon'twantitnearmyspinalcord.Ikeepitonmyside.It'slikealittle...Mypantshavealittle-
Arianna: Oh,yeah,Icansee.
Dave: Cargopantskindofpocket.Well,guesswhatmyDEXAScanshowed?ItshowedthatbecauseIcarrymyphonethere,myrightfemurhas10%lessbonedensitythanmyleftone.
Arianna: Wow.
Dave: Eventhoughthisismydominantleg,whereitshouldbemorebonedensity.Socellphonesarebadforyou,biologically,theyjustare.Havingitturnedoninyourbedroomissobadforyou.Theotherthingthatwedothat'sunusual,isIhadthehouserewired,sothatIhavearemotecontrolforthekids'bedroomsandmybedroom,whereIcanpresstheremotecontrol,anditphysicallydisconnectstheroomsfromthepowergrid.
Arianna: Wow.
BPR-AriannaHuffington2017 Page 12 of 21
Dave: Wesleepinaroomthathasnoelectricitygoingon.
Arianna: That'sfantastic.
Dave: It'sasclosetocaveaswecanget.We'reelectricallygrounded,wehaveblackoutcurtains,andyouknowwhat,mykidshavesleptthroughthenightsincetheywereoneyearold.Theydon'twakeupinthemiddleofthenight.Theygorightbacktosleep.Thesleepproblemswentwaydowninourhouse,becauseunfortunately,thesedevices,eventhoughthey'reincrediblyusefulandvaluable,ifyou'reswimminginthatallthetime,maybethat'snotsogoodforyou,right?
Arianna: Well,that'sit,it'sreallythefactthatweareswimminginthemandweareswimminginaculturethatprizesbeingalwayson.That'stheotherculturalchangethatwearetryingtoaffectthroughThriveGlobal.Wearetryingtochangetheculturalnormssothatitisactuallyprizedtodisconnect.Wearecreatingthisappthatturnsyoursmartphoneintoadumbphoneforspecifiedperiodsoftime.
Let'ssayyouandIarehavingdinner,andyourCOOtextsyou,shewillgetatextbackthatsays"Davidispowereddown,he'llbebackonatsuchandsuchatime."Notonlyisn'tsheabletogetyou,butshegetsamessagethattellsherthatyouareactuallydeliberatelypowereddown,whichbeginstochangetheculture.
Dave: That'scool.
Arianna: Youknow,fromDaveisalwayson,he'samazing,whichiswhatwesaynow,right?
Dave: Right.
Arianna: ToDaveisimportantenoughandvalueshimselfenoughtogooffthegridfordinner.
Dave: Yeah,distractionisasignof[inaudible00:24:34]-
Arianna: Thatbecomesvalued,then.
Dave: Yeah.
Arianna: Becauseit'slike"Hey,youknow,shecandothat.Ifshecandothat,maybeIcandothat."That'showyouchangetheculture.
Dave: Itdoes,absolutely,changetheculture,andI'veinthelastcoupleyearshadachancetoworkwithaveryinfluential,wealthysetofbusinessexecutivesandcelebritiesjustbecauseofBulletproofandsomeoftheworkI'mdoingwithDallas.You'veknownmanyofthesamepeople.There'sbeenashift.Wherethey'rewillingtogoonvacationwithoutcellphones.
Arianna: Yes.
BPR-AriannaHuffington2017 Page 13 of 21
Dave: They'reactuallybuildingitintotheirlives,butit'sanultimateformofluxury.Idon'tthinkthatmindsethaspercolatedornot.
Arianna: Penetrated,no.Becauseyoustillhave,mostcorporations...Lookatthelanguage,youknow?Daveisamazing,heworks24-seven,howoftendoyouhearthat?Which,ifyoulookatthescience.
Dave: Yeah.
Arianna: Working24-sevenisthecognitiveequivalentofcomingtoworkdrunk.
Dave: Right.
Arianna: Youwouldneversay"Youknow,Daveisamazing,hejusthadfiveshotsandcametowork."
Dave: Alotofpeopledoboth.AsfarasIcantellyou.Youburnyourselfout,theoddsofcomingtoworkdrunkgoup.
Arianna: Exactly.
Dave: Peoplestart[inaudible00:25:39]medicated.
Arianna: Alsocomingtoworkafteryou'vestuffedyourselfwithanenormousamountofcarbsandsugar.Becauseourbodiescravecarbsandsugarwhenwe'resleepdeprived.
Dave: That'sverytrue.
Arianna: Imean,lookatallthebreakfastattheseeventsthatwegoandspeakat.It'slikeallcarbsandsugarandyouthink"Why?"It'slike"Haveyoureadanythingaboutthelatestscienceornutrition?Canwehavesomeeggs"
Dave: IjustbringtheBulletproofTeamwithme,justdocoffeedemos,thenIcangointhebackanddrinkmyBulletproofCoffee.Like,that'smybreakfast.Itmakes[inaudible00:26:13],becauseIalsofindthatcarbsandsugareffectsleep.Ifyou'reonazerocarbdietforlongperiodsoftime,especiallywomen,itcanruinyoursleep.
WhenIdidthreemonthsofalmostnocarbs,likeoneservingofveggiesaday,likeveryhighketosis,mysleepmonitoringsystemsaidthatIwaswakingup10to12timesanightwithoutknowingit.Ididn'thavesleepapnea.
Arianna: Right.
Dave: Butmybodywaslike"Ineedcarbstomakeneurotransmitters."
Arianna: Andyoudidn'thaveanygoodfats.
BPR-AriannaHuffington2017 Page 14 of 21
Dave: Ihadlotsofgoodfats.
Arianna: Nowyoudo,yeah.
Dave: Eventhen,Idid.ThisiswhenIwaswritingtheresearchfortheBulletproofdiet.Ithought"Well,I'mgoingtotrylikeanEskimodiet."Likereallyhardketosis,andwhathappenedwasthatitruinedmysleepandIdidn'thaveenoughtears,becauseIdidn'thavethesugarthatittakestodothat.
Arianna: You'renowtakinggoodcarbs?
Dave: Oh,absolutely.It'spartoftheBulletproofdiet.
Arianna: Yes.
Dave: Istosay"Look,youneedtocycleinandout,andifyouwanttosleepwell,youneedtohaveamoderateamountofgoodcarbs."
Arianna: Right.
Dave: Maybenoteveryday.It'sokaytogoafewdayswithoutcarbs.
Arianna: Somevegetablesandsalad,yeah.
Dave: Right,yeah,butifyoudon'tdothatandyou'resuper-keto,somepeopledookay,butalotofpeople,theirsleep,afteramonthortwo.
Arianna: Right.
Dave: It'snotrightaway.Youfeelamazing,youmightsleepbetter.Thatideaofjustlikeyoumentioned,stressrecovery.Ifyouneverhaveanystress,youwon'tgrow.It'sstress,recover,stress,recover.
Arianna: Right.
Dave: Exerciseisstress,andthenyourecover,butifyouexerciseallthetimeandneverrecover,yougetburntout.
Arianna: Well,that'swhatathletesaredemonstrating.WedidaseriesforThriveGlobalonathletes,westartedwithAndreIguodala,whoisalsoaninvestorinthecompany.He'sanMVP,GoldenStateWarriors,etcetera.Hetrackedtheimpactonhisperformance,ofgettingenoughsleep,andit'ssodramatic.Infact,IwasatCES,theConsumerElectronicShowinLasVegaswithKevinPlank,theCEOofUnderArmour,andIwaspartofthepresentationaboutperformance.Youknow,UnderArmourisaperformance-basedcompany,butthey'verecognizedtheimportanceofsleepasaperformanceenhancer.
BPR-AriannaHuffington2017 Page 15 of 21
They'veproducedthisnewsleepwearthathelpsyousleep.Ithinkit'sanincrediblecompetitiveadvantageforacompanytoownsleepasaperformanceenhancer.
Dave: Itabsolutelyis.TheUnderArmourstuffisneat.MynewbookiscalledHeadstrong.It'saboutmitochondrialfunctionandhowimprovingmitochondriaimprovesyourbrain,improvesyoursleep,improvesyourhormones.It'sliketheunderlyingthingthatcontrolsyourbodythatyouwouldneverguess.Doyouhaveenoughpowerrightnow,yesorno?Thesearelittletinybacteriathatwould[inaudible00:28:43]intoourcells.
Arianna: Right.
Dave: OneofthepartsofresearchIcameacrossinthisbookisthatinfraredissomethingthatyourmitochondriamake,andinfraredchangesthewaterinyourbody,soithelpsyourbodyworkbetter.TheUnderArmourtechnologyyou'rementioning.
Arianna: Yes.
Dave: Reflectsinfraredlightfromyourmitochondriabackonthemselves,sotheyhavetodolessworktochangethewaterinthem.Youthink"What,I'mjustsleeping?Water,infrared?"Here'sthething,asmallchangeinyoursleepenvironmentequalshigherperformancethenextday.Makeitdarker,yousleepbetter,makeitcolder,yousleepbetter.Makeitquieter,yousleepbetter.Reduceinterruptions,yousleepbetter.
Allofthosemightbeatwopercentorafivepercentimprovement.
Arianna: Itaddsup.
Dave: A25%improvementfrom10ofthesethingsmightreallymatter.
Arianna: Absolutely,andpeoplearebeginningtorealizethatit'sreallyexcitingtoseethisconversationbepartofbusinessmagazines.Ithinkit'sreallyimportanttoseehowthishasmovedoutoftheyogajournal.
Dave: Yeah.
Arianna: Andtobusinessmagazines,athleticmagazines,sowherepeoplecareaboutperformanceandproductivity.They'realsonowlookingatthelatestscience.Ithinkit'sreallyimportantsinceweclaimtobedata-driven.Wecannolongerignorethedata.
Dave: Thedataisreallystrong,especiallywhenyoulookatthebrain.Iopened,earlierthisyear,theworld's,probably,mosthighest-endneurosciencetrainingfacility,tomakehealthybrainssuperbrains.WetakeCEOtypesthroughafive-dayprogram,andtheyhavetogetenoughsleep,becauseeveryday,we'redoingneurofeedback,basicallytothepointwheretheycan'tdoanymoretoteachthemtodowhatadvancedZenmastersdowithinfivedays.
BPR-AriannaHuffington2017 Page 16 of 21
Withlongstandingchangesinthebrain.Iftheysabotagethemselvesbygettingfivehoursofsleep.
Arianna: Yes.
Dave: Theycan'tdothetrainingthatI'vestarted.YoucanseeasleepybrainonanEEGmachine.ItactuallyhashighlevelsofTheta.You'rebasicallydaydreaming,andyourlevelsofAlpha,whichiswhereyouwanttobeabletobepresent,they'remuchlower.Theheightofthewavesyouwantislower,andthechaoticstormy,like,day-dreamywaves,theonesthatmadeitsothatyouandIcouldbothgotosleepinthreeseconds,anytimeitwasdark.Thosewerealwaysstorming.
Asabrainthatgetsenoughsleepcanbemoreorderlyandmoreorganized,andthenyoumakegooddecisions.Thosedecisions,theymightbedecisions...Youknow,Igotanurgetoyellatmykids,butIdecidedtosuppresstheurge.
Arianna: Right.
Dave: Insteadof"IyelledatmykidsandthenIfeltlikeIwasajerk."Ifeellikethere'sliketensofthousandsofdecisionsweallmakeeveryday,andthatwe'rewiredtobekindtoeachother.Ifyou'retiredallthetime,you'regoingtooverexerciseyourmiddlefingerintraffic.Youknow?You'rejustnotgoingtobethekindofhumanyouknowyou'recapableofbeing.
Arianna: Absolutely.
Dave: That'swhyIwantedtointerviewaboutyournewfocuswithThriveGlobal,becauseyou'rehittingononeofthethingsthatmakesusbetterpeople.Notjusthigherperformingpeople.
Arianna: Exactly,andyouknow,wefindexactlywhatyousaidinourtrainingswithUber,forexample.Wecallonepartofourtraining"Don'tcrossyourredline.Andherearethesignsthatyou'regettingclosetoyourredline."Thephysicalsignsareobvious,youknow?Youaretired.
Thementalsignsarealsoobvious.Youknow,youareoperatinginafog,asyoudescribed.
Dave: Right.
Arianna: Chaoticthoughts.Theemotionalsignsarealsoobvious,becauseyouareoverreacting.Anytimeyouoverreacttobadthingshappening,whichbadthingswillhappenconstantly,allday.Yourchildwilldosomethingyoudon'tlike,yourbosswilldosomethingyoudon'tlike.
Dave: Right.
BPR-AriannaHuffington2017 Page 17 of 21
Arianna: Youremployeeswilldosomethingyoudon'tlike.Ourcapacitytomanageourstressdependsonhowdoyoureacttobadthingshappening?Imean,ifwewerewaitingforadaywhenonlygoodthingshappen,it'snotgoingtocome.Ithinklearningthesethingsandlearninghowtonavigateourdaydifferentlyisgoingtohaveahugetransformativeinfluenceonthewaywelive,thewaywework,thewaywerunourbusinesses.
I'mreally,reallyexcitedaboutthefuture.
Dave: It'slookingbetterbecausewhenwestepoutofthat"Ihavetobeinvulnerable"sortofthingwhereIcannevershowweakness,whichisreallythebusinesscultureinSiliconValleywhereIkindofcutmyteeth,butalsoonWallStreet,andalotofbusiness,inanysalesorientedculture,it'sthesameway.Whereevenifyou'reabouttocollapse,you'dnevershowit.
Wherepeoplearejustsaying"Look,Ineedabreak."Needisactuallyawordthattheymeantosay.
Arianna: Yeah.
Dave: Like,IneeditbecauseI'mnotgoingtoperformwellifIdon'tdothis.
Arianna: Exactly.
Dave: Anotherinterestingstudy,Ilookedalotatbloodsugarregulation.Iusedtohave...Iwaspre-diabeticwhenIweighed300pounds,andIjustgotmyresultsback.Myinsulinsensitivityisthemostsensitiveyoucanget.It'sone.Anythingabove60isbad,anythingabove120isdiabetic.It'sasperfectasyoucanget.Thisisabigchange.
Itrequiresthatyousleep,becauseonenightofmissedsleepequalsa40%reductioninyourabilitytoregulateyourbloodsugar.Youcanbehealthy,oratleastmoderatelyhealthy,andthenyoumisssleep,oryourjetlaggedorwhatever,andthen,allthesudden,youhavethebloodsugaractivityofapre-diabetic,orevenatypetwodiabeticjustfrommissingsleep.
Thenyougetthecravings,thenyoueatthecravings,whichthenmakesyougoupanddownandyoudon'tsleepthenextnightbecauseyouhaveextracortisolandyouenduponthishorribletreadmill.It'sdrivenbybiology.Like,ourbodylistens,isitdarkorisitnotdark?Isitnighttime,isitnotnighttime?AmIfreakingout,orcanIgotosleep,andIwon'tsleep.
It'snotthathardwhenyoulookatitthatway,butwhenyou'relike"WhatifsomeoneknowsthatIneedtosleep?"Iwasinspiredbyourlastinterview,whenyouwerejustwillingtotalkabout"Hey,thisiswhathappenedtome."
Arianna: Right.
BPR-AriannaHuffington2017 Page 18 of 21
Dave: You'reaprettydarnedaccomplishedbusinessperson.Yet,okay,I'mgoingtostandupandtalkaboutit.Sincethen,I'veseenasubstantialnumberofverywell-respectedexecutivesjuststandup,andtheykindoffollowyourleadandsay"Yeah,youknow,Isleep."Or"Youknow,ifIdon'tmeditate,I'mnotaverygoodperson."
Arianna: Yes.
Dave: Itseemslikesomethingshifted,justinthelastthreeyears.
Arianna: Somethinghasshifted.Absolutely.It'sexcitingtosee.It'salmostlikeCEOsarecomingout,notasbeinggay,butasmeditatingorsleepingortakingcareofthemselvesandmakingtheconnectbetweenthatandbeingbetterattheirjobs.
Dave: Itismyexperience,asaformerSiliconValleygeek,andjustasaCEOnow,ifIdon'tcontrolthatonevariableinmyenvironment,I'mjustnotasnice.Idon'twanttobemeantothepeoplewhosupporttheBulletproofvision.I'dfeelbadaboutthat.It'sabusinessrequirement,andmyexecutiveassistantsknowverywell,don'tschedulethingsthataregoingtodisruptmysleep.
Arianna: Right.
Dave: Unlesswetalkaboutitaheadoftime,andifIneedtodoacallwithJapanorsomewhere,thenI'lldoit,I'llmaketimetodoit,butthen,I'mnotgoingtoscheduleasevenAMcallthenextmorning.
Arianna: Exactly.
Dave: Becauseit'stooexpensivetodothat,right?
Arianna: Absolutely.It'sgreattolookatthat.
Dave: It'salmosttooexpensivenottodoit.It'safinancialcostthatcomesfrommakingabadsleepdecision.
Arianna: Yes,becauseIthinkwehavesomanyexecutivesnow,whoarewillingtoacknowledgethatthebiggestmistakestheymade,theymadewhentheyweretired.Iknowwe,forexample,welaunchedapartnershipwithJPMorgan.Itwasa28-daychallengetoalltheglobalemployees.Youknow,370,000employees.
Theywereaskedtoparticipateinoneofourchallenges;sleep,unpluggingandrecharging,gratitude,andmindfulness.Whatwasamazingistoseeseniorexecutivestalkingabouttheirownchallengeandwhattheyweregoingtodo.Theimpactithadonthecompany,andforme,it'sjustanothergreatindicationofthezeitgeist,andofhowamajorbanklikeJPMorganiswillingtoacknowledgethatthey'regoingtohavebetteremployees.KristinLemkau,whoistheirchiefmarketingofficer,wroteinapieceforusthatshecouldcategoricallysaythatallthemistakesshemadeinbusinesswerewhenshewastired.
BPR-AriannaHuffington2017 Page 19 of 21
Dave: Howaboutthelatenighte-mail,orbeforeyougotobed,thatyou'llsendtosomeone,andthenthenextmorningyou'relike"Ican'tbelieveIsentthat,ohno."I'vehadafewofthose.Youprobablyhavetoo,right?
Arianna: That'sright,that'swhyyouhavetopickatime,atleasthalfanhourbeforeyou'regoingtogotosleep,whenyouturnoffyourphone,ideally,takethemoutofyourbedroomorputtheminyourphonebed.Then,haveatransitiontosleep.Youhavechildren.Youknowwhentheywerelittle,youdon'tjustdroptheminbed.Yougivethemabath,youputthemintheirPJs,youreadthemastory.
IwroteaparodyofGoodnightMoon,calledGoodnightSmartphonethatAudibleisbringingoutlaterinJanuary.Allofthesethingsareavailabletousastoolstohelpustakecareofourselvesandasaresult,bebetteratourjobs.
Dave: Let'stalkaboutsomethingelseinyourworkwithJPMorgan,andyoutalkedaboutgratitude.AttheBulletproofSeniorLeadershipMeetings,likeeveryweek,wehaveourexecutivecalllikemostcompaniesdo.Weopenitwhereeveryonegoesthroughandtalksaboutsomethingthatthey'regratefulforthatweek.Nottome,justaboutthebusiness,butsometimesmykidsgraduated-
Arianna: [inaudible00:38:26].That'sgreat,Ilovethat.
Dave: Youknow,Igotagoodnight'ssleeporwhatever,butit'sapartofourcultureandwe'redoingthatsincethestartofthecompany.I'mwonderingwhatdidyouaskJPMorgantodothatIcansteal?
Arianna: Oh,wellactually,allthatwedidistoaskthemtorecognizethatprioritizingthewellbeingoftheiremployeesisgoingtoimprovethebottomline.
Dave: Okay.
Arianna: Onceyouacceptthat,everythingelsefollows.Youknow,everycompanyhasdifferentpainpoints.Youknow,acompanymayhavearetentionpainpoint,orarecruitmentpainpoint,butwhateverthepainpoints,thesolutionliesinrecognizingthere'saconnectionbetweenwellbeingandperformance.
Dave: Allright,Iabsolutelylovethatanswer,andit'saccordedbothofourbeliefsystems.We'recomingtoontheendoftheinterview.WhenIinterviewedyou,thiswasabouttwoandahalfyearsago.IaskedyoutheBulletproofquestion,andIthinkanswerswillprobablyhaveshiftednow.I'mgoingtoaskyouthesamequestion.Iwasgoingtosay:tellmethreethingsthatwillmakeussleepbetter,butit'smoreinteresting.Ifsomeonecametoyoutoday,andtheysaid"Arianna,basedonallyou'velearnedthelastfewyears,andevenbeforethat,IwanttoperformbetterateverysinglethingIdo,whatarethethreemostimportantpiecesofknowledgeIneed?"
Whatwouldyouoffertoday?
BPR-AriannaHuffington2017 Page 20 of 21
Arianna: Iwouldsaythefirst,mostimportantthingissortofphilosophical.It'snottocompletelyidentifywithyourjob.
Dave: Oh,amen.
Arianna: Because,nomatterhowmagnificentyourjobis,whoyouareasahumanbeingismoreimportant,moresacredthanyourjob.Theminuteyouforgetthat,you'reatthemercyofevents.
Dave: Yeah.
Arianna: Becauseeventhemostsuccessfulcareerhasproblems,haschallenges.Ifyouthinkthisiswhoyouare,thenyou'regoingtobeatthemercyoftheseevents.Yourstresslevelsandyourhappinesslevelsandyourhealtharegoingtobeatthemercyoftheevents.
Thesecondthingisphysical,andmental,andemotional.It'severythingwe'vebeentalkingabout,whichisrecognizingthattakingcareofourselves,puttingourownoxygenmaskfirstisgoingtomakeusbetterateverything.Ourjobs,andourparenting,ourrelationships,everything.
ThethirdthingistorememberwhatColettesaid,theFrenchwriter,shesaid"Um,Ihadsuchawonderfullife,IjustwishIhadrealizeditsooner."
Dave: Kindoflikegratitude.
Arianna: Ithinkmostofusfocusonthethingsthatarenotworkinginourlives,ratherthanthethingsthatareworking.It'salmostlikeanevolutionaryfight-or-flightmodethatwetendtogointo.Ithinktryingtofocusonwhatisworkingisincrediblypowerful,andrememberingeveryday,especiallybeforeyougotosleeptodoashortgratitudelist,beginstochangethequalityofyourlife.
Dave: Allright,it'ssuchapowerfullist.Wetalkedaboutgratitudeatthecompanymeetings.Forthepast,Ithink,fourorfiveyearsnow,withmykidsthataresevenandnine,everynightbeforebed,Isay"Tellmethreethingsyou'regratefulfor."
Arianna: Fantastic.
Dave: That'spartofournightlyritual.Usuallyit's"I'mgratefulforsomethingkindoftrivial,becausethey'relittlekids."Notsolongago,whenAlwasaboutfive,hesaid"I'mgratefulfortheBigBang,becausewithoutthat,therewouldn'tbeanything."
Arianna: Oh,that'ssogreat.
Dave: Whatacool[inaudible00:42:06].
Arianna: Ilovethat.
BPR-AriannaHuffington2017 Page 21 of 21
Dave: [inaudible00:42:07]Youneverknowwhat'sgoingtocomeoutof[inaudible00:42:12]
Arianna: TellhimtowriteforThriveGlobal.
Dave: Allright,I'lltellhim.
Arianna: Sure.
Dave: Thelettersmightbebackwards.
Arianna: That'sfine.
Dave: Onthatnote,Arianna,peoplecanfindoutaboutThriveGlobalatThriveGlobaldotcom.Anythingelseyouwanted[inaudible00:42:25]-
Arianna: Iwanttoinviteanybodywhoiswatchingustotellustheirstories.Towritethemforyoursite,forThriveGlobaldotcom.Wejustwanttocollectasmanystoriesaspossible.Itcouldbestoriesofburnout,wake-upcalls,itcouldbestoriesofwhatyouaredoingtomakeyourlifebetterthatotherscanlearnfrom.Themorewecansharethesestories,thefasterwe'llacceleratethecultureshift.
Dave: Well,Iappreciatetheworkthatyou'redoingonmakingpeopleawareofthesethingsbecausepeopleareactuallybetterthantheythinktheyare,whentheygetenoughsleep.Itrulybelievethatwe'remeanttobenicetoeachother,we'remeanttobekind.We'rewiredthatway.It'sjustlifestylecrapthatgetsinthewayofthat.You're[inaudible00:43:12]going,andthankyou.
Arianna: Thankyouforeverything,includingtheBulletproofCoffeeIdrinkeverymorning.
Dave: You'resowelcome.
Howdidwedo?
Ifyouratethistranscript3orbelow,thisagentwillnotworkonyourfutureorders
Top Related