Why Are Some Great NLPers Still Over Weight

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Seb joined:

Total posts:

May 2010

36

I was also curious to see individual responses to this thread also.

It is interesting to see the different values accommodated within each person.

Before I started studying NLP I was studying people like Jim

Rohn, Tony Robbins, Brian Tracy, Robbin Sharma est. who all

promoted to raising your standards in all areas. So prior to

studying NLP I was blasted with leadership mentality and "raising

your standards". This is probably why I assume that great NLPers would have easily covered weight loss if it was an issue

to them. I assume now not all great NLPers have this mentality.

Not to say that they are not any kind of leader though.

Sebastian

Seb Wallace

Posted: 13th Jul 10, 01:26 pm

Quote this post in your reply

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8/16/2010http://www.nlpconnections.com/chill-out-room/15812-why-some-great-nlpers-still-over-w...

James joined:

Total posts:

Jul 2010

61

I think you would be best to ask a great nlper why he/she does

not value health/fitness/appearance because you might lean

more about the physical body and how that reflects psychology,

or there abouts. We all know that appearance is one of the first things people judge upon meeting and perhaps there are many

people who have to rely on that appearance to pass judgement

and perhaps there are other people who pass judgement

differently.

I am wondering how psychology equates to weight and how you

are determining fitness by appearances. I am sure most great nlpers are fit enough to perform on a stage

and to choose their personal state and appearance to achieve the

goals of the training in so reaching their set standards because is

that not what they do? Be it a trainer or practictioner, great or

just plump?

I don't think health and weight are the same for each person. Many people my height would be a lot less healthy with my

weight because I am not built like a porker and some people are

naturally built with a bit more flab and natural means healthy

because some people are built for warmer climates and some

people survive easier in colder weather.

If your physical body is a reflections of your psychology then does it not follow that your psychology is also a reflection of your

physical body and if your psychology is that of a great nlper,

does it not then follow that your physical body is well ballanced?

Your question may have been risky but not rude compared to a

question unanswered.

I am sure there are great nlpers who can be over weight one

week and a lot slimmer the next because simply altering a state

of mind can directly afect metabolism, digestion and weight. I

am also sure a great nlper could look more pretty if they wanted

to but I don't see how that makes them more skilled in changing

people's psychology.


Chris joined:

Total posts:

Aug 2005

2,428

Chris Morris

Posted: 14th Jul 10, 10:48 am



It tickles me when NLP trainers admit they could be healthier (if

they wanted to be) but they choose not to be, and therefore we

shouldn't impose our values on them...

Everyone has the right to set their own priorities and live the

way they choose (assuming they don't harm others), but come

on... let's not be deluded.

Being unhealthy isn't a choice; it's hundreds of choices every

day. We choose what we eat, what we drink, how we move,

every moment. And people who consistently choose to consume

more calories than they use are consistently making decisions

that lead them in an unhealthy direction. There are lots of

reasons for it, lots of factors to consider. And ultimately it's all

about the decisions you make and the habits you slip into.

By the way, let's not create any straw man arguments here. It

doesn't matter to me if you have a perfectly sculpted body and I

don't care if you're carrying a few extra pounds either. I'm

talking about overall health and energy levels, not aesthetics. I

know a lot of very over weight are still functionally healthy, to a

greater or lesser extent. But my take on this is simple - if someone's habitual patterns and decisions are leading them to

progressively damage their own health, and if they are either not

aware of this or are unwilling/unable to change it, then I think

that's relevant. I think about my teachers in a holistic/systemic

way. I know their own internal structure is feeding their ideas

and the delivery of those ideas, and they'll influence me at very

deep levels. I'm looking for how the system works as a whole, and also what's not working.

There's also the point about congruence. What Lenny said about

Michael Neill is a good point. It felt odd for me to be there

promoting the author of Be Happy Now - teaching people about

success - while he was sharing with everyone how depressed

he'd felt only a week before. And at the same time, how wonderfully real. How fantastic of him to cut through all the

super shiny crap and make the very raw point that we're all

human beings, we're all still growing, we're all a bit mad in our

own way... and it's great. I always learn a lot from Michael

precisely because he's so open and authentic.

If someone genuinely wants to be fat for some reason, I think that's cool. If they genuinely want to slim down and are

struggling with that, I think that's cool too. I don't expect

teachers to be super-human or made in my image. But I do like

to learn from people who know themselves and are honest with

themselves, and I think it's extremely rare to meet someone who

genuinely choses to prioritise other things over their health. In

my experience so far, most NLP trainers who are asked about their body issues are full of shit, and that seeps through even if

they're not asked about it. There are counter-examples to this of

course. But overall that's been my experience so far - and it's

the shit I object to, not the fat.

Nothing I write is meant to be taken literally, including this.



Chris Morris Events | Add me on Facebook | Follow me on

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Stephen joined:

Total posts:

Nov 2007

630

It's an interesting question - is it congruent to help someone else lose weight through coaching / hypnosis / NLP, if you yourself

are overweight.

On the surface, I'd agree not. And yet, I bet Richard Bandler

could definitely help someone who wanted to lose weight. I bet

Michael De Busk could. So why shouldn't they?

I mean, Angelo Dundee coached Muhammad Ali to be champion

of the world without first being champion of the world.

I can see the rationale, but is it just conventional wisdom limiting

our thinking?

Cheers

PS. Chris makes a great point. He was probably typing that as I

was typing mine. I agree no one chooses to be unhealthy. And,

it's not necessarily that they fail in positive attempts to be

healthy either. There probably isn't any attempt or intent either

way. It's probably non-choice, rather than a choice. Or a non-

choice around health coupled with a positive choice around pleasure and enjoyment. Or defaulting to pleasure without any

desire or intent to do otherwise. But not a choice to be

overweight or something.

Last edited by Steve_W; 14th Jul 10 at 11:03 am.

My Web Site | My NLP Site | My Coaching Site | Facebook |

Twitter | My Blog

Stephen Woolston



Michael DeBusk



Michael joined:

Total posts:

Nov 2007

1,289

I'm no trainer, and you're welcome to impose your values on me

if you like. I'm fully aware that my condition is my decision.

Every time I take the elevator instead of the stairs, it's my

choice. Last night, when the waiter brought me about 30% more

food than I thought he was going to, I ate it, fully aware that it

was more food than my body needed for fuel.

At the same time, the oatmeal I'm having for breakfast right now

is my choice, too, and I must say it's pretty good for oatmeal.

And the fist-full of food supplements I just swallowed is my

choice, too. (The niacin has brought my LDL down to well within

normal limits over the past three years. Yay for me.) And

chewing my food more... something I wasn't even aware I was doing incorrectly until dinner with a friend who had recently had

bariatric surgery brought it to mind... I still have to consciously

choose it. But I do.

I am one of those oddball "away-from" people in most contexts.

I could be healthier -- I'm surprised that I'm not quite a bit

UNhealthier -- but the things I'd have to do to get there are things I'd rather avoid. And the long-term? I've walked through

Intensive Care enough times to know I'd rather not live to be

old.

I don't know what else to say on the subject.

Have I updated the NLPhilia Blog lately?


chris_morris wrote:

It tickles me when NLP trainers admit they could be healthier (if they wanted to be) but they choose not to be, and therefore we shouldn't impose our values on them...


Michael DeBusk



Michael joined:

Total posts:

Nov 2007

1,289

Oh, sure, I could. Losing weight is not a complicated thing for

most people. Most, though, are of the mind that if one hasn't

done it, one can't do it. Anything I'd offer to someone would be

rejected on those illogical grounds because people tend to not

make decisions logically.



Steve_W wrote:

On the surface, I'd agree not. And yet, I bet Richard Bandler could definitely help someone who wanted to lose weight. I bet Michael De Busk could. So why shouldn't they?


Alistair joined:

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Jan 2009

788

Even when you're moving away from something you're moving

towards something else...

Alistair Donnell


Michael_DeBusk wrote:

I am one of those oddball "away-from" people in most contexts. I could be healthier -- I'm surprised that I'm not quite a bit UNhealthier -- but the things I'd have to do to get there are things I'd rather avoid. And the long-term? I've walked through Intensive Care enough times to know I'd rather not live to be old. I don't know what else to say on the subject.



Peeking through the window of Academia

http://memoirsofannlppractitioner.blogspot.com/


Alistair joined:

Total posts:

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788

I'm underweight by the way, not sure if that puts a spin on things...

Peeking through the window of Academia

http://memoirsofannlppractitioner.blogspot.com/

Alistair Donnell



Michael joined:

Total posts:

Nov 2007

1,289

True. Something. By default it has to be something. I'm not sure

what the point to saying it is, though, because that's not how

motivation works.

Michael DeBusk


Alistair_Donnell wrote:

Even when you're moving away from something you're moving towards something else...





Nigel joined:

Total posts:

Feb 2007

24

I think the point is here, that you are judging them on your own

model of the world - fair enough .... and they have their own model of the world, so no-one can answer for them!

e.g. You ['whoever'] may be perfectly capable of helping another

through ANY emotional issue, say - and does that mean that

they never have issues of your own to come up?

In your example - the values you have around health and fitness include a visually appealing shape, to whatever criteria/size

seems right to you. Another person may have a totally different

set of values in regard to health and fitness, judging it on very

different criteria.

Perhaps the person was twice that size previously and has

Nigel Horwood


Sebwalace wrote:

I feel this question might be a bit risky and rude but I thought I would ask. I see a lot of great NLPers who do great change work and who I consider very skilled at being able to change people's psychology. We all know that appearance is one of the first things people judge upon meeting. My belief is - if you are a great practical psychologist then your health and fitness will be a reflection of that. Your physical body is a reflection of your psychology. Is it because although some NLPers are great but they do not value health & fitness/appearance? I'm only curious. Sebastian



achieved a great deal in that realm without your knowledge, or

perhaps their business receives more value to them than their

shape.

We spend our time in alignment with our values.

your comment ...

"We all know that appearance is one of the first things people judge upon meeting."

That is your projection and not relevant for ''all" !!


Michael joined:

Total posts:

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1,289

Would that that were true. Research has shown, though, that

people do make initial judgments about other people based on

appearance. It's one of those things that is so consistently found

that it may well be hard-wired.


Michael DeBusk


Nigel H wrote:

your comment ... "We all know that appearance is one of the first things people judge upon meeting." That is your projection and not relevant for ''all" !!


Seb Wallace



Seb joined:

Total posts:

May 2010

36

That's literally just what me and my girlfriend were saying in

talking on this subject.


Michael_DeBusk wrote:

Would that that were true. Research has shown, though, that people do make initial judgments about other people based on appearance. It's one of those things that is so consistently found that it may well be hard-wired.


Michael joined:

Total posts:

Nov 2007

1,289

I know. I couldn't help overhearing.


Michael DeBusk


Sebwalace wrote:

That's literally just what me and my girlfriend were saying in talking on this subject.


James Tsakalos



James joined:

Total posts:

Apr 2006

859

Just to throw something into the mix here ...

People who have the skills to do what they congruently want to

do will do ... what they congruently want to do. If somebody

congruently wants to lose weight or make a squillion dollars, and they have the skills to do so, they probably will.

So here's an example: I'm an NLP trainer. I've never been

fixated on looking like a magazine cover model, because that's

just FAR from important in the grand scheme of things, in my

personal worldview. So I just do what I like doing.

Now ... recently, I decided I want to get back into some of the

fun physical activities that used to light me up. I haven't done a

lot of those things for a while because my weight and fitness

weren't up to it. No big deal - until I decided to do them again.

So I dropped 20kg. And I'll be dropping another 15kg over the

next couple of months. And again - that's no big deal either. I'm

still not fixated on looking like a magazine cover model. The only difference is that now I have a reason to change my shape that I

actually give a shit about. That's all.

Cheers,

James T

Spiral Somatics in London, June 4-6 2010 | Learn NLP in

Melbourne, Australia



Yvonne joined:

Total posts:

Jun 2010

49

"Also I knew that my question would bring up aggravation so as

I keep mentioning - this post is based on my beliefs. My beliefs

are (1) - "your physical body is a reflection of your psychology

(2) - how well you take care of yourself." - "If you take care of

yourself it will show up in your health and fitness."

Yvonne Sanders

Posted: 21st Jul 10, 03:28 am



1. There we are then

2. What about the insecure person who over compensates by

plastering their face with make-up before they dare walk out the

door? What about the person who is 100% comfortable

wandering about in sweatpants and hasn't shaved for a week?

3. Comes back to 1 (for me)

p.s You're not Henry Rollins are you? He had(has?) a similar pov.


Stephen joined:

Total posts:

Nov 2007

630

Yvonne raises a good point.

If we accept that one's physical body is a reflection of their

psychology, does being overweight necessarily mean "can't look

after onesself" or "don't care". Could it mean "happy and

confident whatever", or "I don't judge myself by my body".

Well, it depends what other physical criteria are present. I mean, "overweight", is a monster-chunk piece of criteria. There are

many other variables within that chunk, I think.

Cheers

My Web Site | My NLP Site | My Coaching Site | Facebook |

Twitter | My Blog

Stephen Woolston



Chris Morris




Chris joined:

Total posts:

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2,428

You can make anything mean anything, with sufficient

imagination. But why accept that one's physical body is a

reflection of their psychology? If you want a mind/body split, use

an axe! Most people's experience is led by their physiology in so

many ways they don't understand, and it's like wearing a

coloured contact lens. After a while, you no longer notice it. It

becomes the norm. It feels like that's just who you are.

A couple of years ago I started offering a deal to potential clients

who called up saying they were depressed. I have a list of things

I ask them to do every day for six weeks - things like drinking

water, getting some sunlight, taking vitamins and minerals,

getting massages, singing and dancing. If they still think they're

depressed after six weeks of that, I'll work with them for free

(because I know I can learn from them). What I've found is 90% of people who go through with it come back and say they feel

high afterwards; they realise they weren't depressed at all - just

sluggish. The remaining 10% feel better but there's some work

to do on other things.

I don't know any way to consume more calories than you need

and not be sluggish. I don't know any way to be substantially over weight and not be sluggish. So although I appreciate that

people may habituate to where they're at and not notice their

limitations, I really think the body and mind are one system and

loving yourself means accepting where you're at now and also

making congruent decisions day-to-day. It doesn't mean being

perfect or beating yourself up, but it does mean being honest

with yourself and not hiding behind some story or ritual of excuses. People who love themselves look after themselves.

That's just how it is, in my experience. (See - I'm not always

flexible!! )

Nothing I write is meant to be taken literally, including

this.

Chris Morris Events | Add me on Facebook | Follow me on Twitter

Steve_W wrote:

If we accept that one's physical body is a reflection of their psychology, does being overweight necessarily mean "can't look after onesself" or "don't care". Could it mean "happy and confident whatever", or "I don't judge myself by my body".


chris arthur



Chris joined:

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34

If you went to a doctor for a smoking related illness, would you

care if they were a smoker. If you went for a drink related

illness, would it matter as long as the treatment worked.



Chris joined:

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If a doctor was offering a new, untested drug (not approved by

any authority) and they'd taken it themselves and it hadn't

worked, but did produce some negative side effects, would you

take it then?

Nothing I write is meant to be taken literally, including

this.

Chris Morris Events | Add me on Facebook | Follow me on

Twitter

Chris Morris



Venus Brown




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Venus joined:

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Sometimes being overweight or looking a certain a way is

appropriate to the task at hand.

It's as simple as that.

Venus


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