Interview #3 Transcript: Second Year Female English Literature Student (17.10.17) (University B)

Interviewer (I): Okay, so why have you chosen to do an English degree at this particular university?

Participant (P): I really liked the area and I wanted to be able to commute in my third year so – I live in [location removed], which is not too far away and I really liked the course here.

I: Okay. Are you the first in your family to go to university?

P: Mmhmm [agreement].

I: What does value for money mean for you and is it important that you get value for money from your university?

P: Yeah, I think it’s really important because you’re spending an awful lot of money to do it and I’m getting into a lot of debt so I definitely want to get the most out of it.

I: Okay. What does value for money mean to you?

P: It means, I guess, you’re getting the most for what you’re paying for, you’re getting everything back, you’re getting the most help, assistance, yeah…

I: Okay. Do you agree with paying fees?

P: I agree with paying fees, but I don’t agree with how much they are at the moment. I think you should have to pay, I don’t think it needs to be something that’s free, because if it was free then you probably wouldn’t get the same, sort of, support. But I just don’t think it should be this much [laughing].

I: [laughing] Okay. What does being a university student mean to you?

P: Mmm that I want to better myself?

I: Okay. Anything else or just…?

P: Probably just that. I’m just here to get my degree really [laughing].

I: Okay. What do you think being a university student means to people outside of the university?

P: So, like families that live around the town?

I: Yeah, just anyone that’s not actually a part of a university or a student themselves.

P: Hmm I think it would mean different things to different people. Like my mum sees it as a good thing, but then some people might be like, “Oh it’s just a waste of time” [laughing]. I think it depends on the person a lot.

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I: Yeah. Have you experienced both?

P: Yeah, I think so. Mostly my family have been really supportive, but you can tell some people are like, “Oh why did you do that?” “Well, because I wanted to” [laughing]. I think it’s the money thing again as well, I think a lot of people are like, “Oh it’s such a lot of money”.

I: Yeah, okay. What meaning does the word engagement have for you?

P: That you’re taking part and you’re listening and you’re involved. [pause] Yeah.

I: Yeah. Okay. So, in what ways do university staff attempt to engage you as a student?

P: [pause] I think the seminars and, like, setting us specific tasks to come in and discuss with other people. I think if you just had to do the reading, then you probably would just do the reading and that’s it, whereas when you get asked to go a little step further then you’re properly engaging with something rather than just skimming over it.

I: Okay.

P: [coughing] Sorry I’ve got a cough.

I: That’s fine! How do – so you said about seminars – how do tutors engage you during lectures?

P: Sometimes they will throw questions out to the group and they will stand there until we answer [laughing]. So, I guess that way probably, because someone’s going to have to answer.

I: Okay. So, for you, engagement is really about interaction?

P: Yeah, I think so.

I: Okay. How do administrators or other non-academic staff members engage you?

P: On Blackboard probably, so like, the online sites, they’ll put announcements up of things that are going on around the uni [sic], or around the area, to keep people, like, in touch with what’s going on, like, remind people of things. So probably that way. It’s definitely, like, an online thing I’ve noticed, at this uni [sic].

I: Yeah. Okay. What are your thoughts on the concept of student as consumer in higher education?

P: [pause] What does that mean exactly? Sorry

I: So – that’s okay! [laughing] So it’s the idea that students are now legal consumers.

P: So, like customers?

I: Yeah.

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P: I think it probably links back to the whole, you want to get the best for your money. I think now we probably expect more, like, I know sometimes in lectures, me and my friends have gone, “God, [sigh] we’re paying £9,000 for this” [laughing] and I know someone in my class has worked out how much it is each, like, session we go to. They’re like, “God, [sigh] £25 for this” [laughing] and I think it makes you a lot more critical of why you’re here and what you’re here for, and I think for some people, they want to get the best and they expect it.

I: Yeah. Do you think the idea has impacted on your interactions with staff here?

P: Mmm definitely. I think I want to be more involved. Yeah.

I: Yeah? Okay. So, it’s impacted positively rather than negatively?

P: I think it can be a bit of both, because if something’s not going well then, you’re probably more critical of it than you would be if you were spending, like, £2,000 [laughing]. I think I’m more critical and aware of things going wrong maybe, but then at the same time, I want to make it better and get involved and, sort of, get the most out of it.

I: Yeah okay. Do you think paying fees gives you more entitlement as a student? And if so, what kind of entitlement?

P: I think it should. I think we are basically funding everything so, we should, to an extent, have a say in how things should be better or if they’re going wrong or – not exactly what we want because everything’s – everyone’s going to have different opinions, but I think we should, to an extent, have that say of what we want from it.

I: Yeah okay. Do you think that happens at the moment? Or do you think it’s something that needs improving?

P: I don’t know really, I think it’s quite good for things like societies. Like if people want to start one up and then it’s, you go for it! Or if you want to start a club, I think that side of it’s quite good. But I don’t know, the academic side, we do have – I know we have student-staff liaison meetings and that has made a bit of an impact. But I mean, I guess the students can’t really come in and start telling people where to go so, there’s a boundary I guess isn’t there? Hmm. [coughing] Sorry.

I: [laughing] Do you ever feel as though the university, both on the level of the whole institution and individual staff members, is engaging you as a customer or a consumer, rather than a student?

P: No.

I: No?

P: No, I think we’re much – I think in a good way as well, I think we’re considered students still, because at the end of the day, we are all here to get a degree and that’s probably the first thing, rather than thinking about the money all the time.

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I: Okay. So, moving on to learning then. How engaging and/or useful for learning do you find lectures? If at all.

P: How engaging?

I: And/or useful for learning.

P: I think they’re really good, yeah. I think – I think it’s stuff that you can, kind of, just get off a PowerPoint online, if you know what I mean? I considered Open University, but then I quite like going in and, kind of, get – I think with the lecture, you get more of their own opinion and you see other people’s opinions so I think it’s definitely more beneficial, if that’s the right way to answer that.

I: [laughing] Yeah. Okay, what about seminars? How engaging and/or useful for learning are they?

P: They’re hit and miss I find. I think, especially with English, if one of the texts you don’t engage in, then you have to spend a whole hour doing that text and you might never actually use that in any of your work. I think then it can be a bit like, “Ugh, why did I come to this session?” But I think if you do enjoy it, then it’s good yeah. It’s good to, like I said, get other people’s opinions.

I: Okay. Where do you choose to sit in seminars and lectures, like, the back, front, or do you have no preference at all?

P: I have to sit at the front because I can’t see very well [laughing], so I’m always the keen bean at the front and everyone’s like, “Oh, what’s she doing?” [laughing] but yeah, the front.

I: Okay [laughing]. How engaging and/or useful for learning do you find one-on-one sessions with tutors?

P: In the past – I mean we don’t have an awful lot of them, but if you want them, you can have them. Like, last year, I had quite a few because I’m a bit of, like, a panicker [sic] [laughing] so I will just go and see someone and I found them really beneficial. I think you always think that they’re going to be really scary and not want to help you but they actually are really good. I think that’s the one thing I’ve really benefitted from at this uni [sic], I think they’re really good with the tutors helping you personally. Definitely.

I: Yeah, okay. So, do you find them intimidating? You’ve touched on that a little bit.

P: I think at first, like, when you first come to uni [sic] you do, but now I really don’t. I think some that you don’t know, maybe you’re like, “Oooh” but if you, kind of, have a bit of, like, a relationship, like, you know each other and you have a lot of classes with them, then I don’t find them intimidating at all.

I: Okay. So, which of the three, out of lectures, seminars and one-to-ones, do you find the most engaging or useful for learning, if you have a preference?

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P: That’s hard. It depends. I think maybe lectures and then one-to-one, I think, I couldn’t choose just one. But I do really like lectures because I’m a note-taker. I love taking loads of notes and I find I always get lots of notes in lectures but not seminars, so probably that one.

I: Okay. Is there anything you particularly like about the learning style at university compared to compulsory education?

P: [pause] Yeah, I think – I think I quite like the attitude of, like, “You’ve chosen to come here” so it’s a little bit more, I don’t know, I find there’s a respect element. I feel like, you respect your tutors and they, in a way, respect you because you’ve chosen and you’re paying, whereas I think in compulsory education, like, everyone’s just like, “Ugh I don’t want to be here” [laughing] even if you enjoy it. So, I don’t know if that answers it, but I think – I don’t know, that’s a hard one. I think just the fact that you’re choosing to be here, I like that, like, everyone’s choosing to be here, everyone’s chosen to do that course so everyone’s, kind of, passionate about it. I think I like that.

I: Okay. Do you always understand what your teachers are explaining to you, or the material you’re set to read?

P: No. [laughing] No, not always. Like, with one session, we had to do [removed for confidentiality], and we had to read stuff from, like, [removed for confidentiality] that was so hard. But I think they’re quite good at rectifying that and, like I said, if you need help, you just email them and they’re there to help you.

I: Okay. So, if there is a lack of understanding, do you think it’s to do with – so maybe not the [removed for confidentiality] example because that’s a very specific example [laughing] but, say it was like, I don’t know, a feminist theory article or something like that, do you think it’s to do with the content of the work or the language that’s used to explain it?

P: I don’t know, that’s hard because I think sometimes it’s good that you’re not going to understand everything because it shows that you’re actually learning something, so I always find in lectures or something, if everyone’s sat there like, with their eyes, kind of, scrunched up like, “What are you talking about?” they will say, “Is everyone getting this?” and we’re all like, “No!” and then they’ll go through it, but I think, I don’t know, sometimes it’s good that you don’t always understand because it shows that you’re progressing. If you went into every lecture like, “Yep, know that, know that” then it would be a bit boring, wouldn’t it, I guess? So, I feel like it’s just new content that’s, kind of, holding it back.

I: Yeah, okay. From your own experience, is there anything you would change to improve your own learning? So, either in terms of the teaching, the resources you have access to, curriculum and assessment, or anything else?

P: Time… [laughing] I think there’s not enough hours in the day. I think I find it quite hard for people when you have a job, or when you’re commuting, sometimes there’s just not enough time in the day to, sort of, access other materials and… like, I find in English a lot, you have to read around what you’re reading, you can’t just read the text and expect to get through. So, I think the worst one for me is time. I don’t think they set too much though, I think it’s just life that, kind of, takes over.

I: Yeah. Is there anything that the university could do to make that easier, or…?

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P: I don’t know, because if, say if you are struggling, they are – they do make such a point of the fact that they’re here to help you rather than, like, punish you. I think, I don’t really know what you could do else [sic], I mean I think they’re quite supportive with, kind of, life taking over at certain points so, I don’t think there’s anything else, I think it’s just one of those things.

I: Okay. So, I sent you the document that refers to the Student Charter [name changed], which is [pause to find the document] there.

P: Oh yeah, I think I briefly looked over…

I: So, in your opinion, how evident is this policy in your day-to-day experience of being a student here? If it is at all.

P: [pause to read] I think the values are evident.

I: Yeah?

P: Yeah, [removed for confidentiality]. [pause] Being part of the community I guess. I think [pause] it’s hard because some things come at different times, [pause] and with different people. Like, I feel like, if you were talking to a sports person, they are a lot more integrated into the uni [sic] than probably I am [laughing].

I: Because of their involvement with the SU?

P: Yeah. Mmhmm. Definitely. And I think, like, I think if you are one of those people that is in a society and you go to all the, kind of, quizzes and stuff like that, then that’s great and you will probably get every impact of that, but if you are a bit more shy or you’re not involved in that kind of thing, then maybe you won’t see all aspects of it, which I think’s a shame. I think overall probably that is true yeah, but I just think at certain points, some people might not get every aspect. Maybe the Student’s Union the most, I find that can be quite [pause] cliquey [laughing], which I never thought I’d say again [laughing]. But I don’t think that’s any fault, I think it’s just probably uni. But I mean, I think, if you want that you have to then go and try and get it yourself, like, so I started a [removed for confidentiality] with other people and we’re not part of the Union, but I think maybe you have to start other ways of, kind of, getting that element in yourself, maybe.

I: Okay. Have you ever seen this document before I sent it to you?

P: I have yeah.

I: You have? Oh okay.

P: I think I’ve seen it about, I recognise the layout and these little bullet points. I’ve definitely seen it, I don’t know if I would have properly read it before you sent it to me, but I’ve seen it [laughing].

I: Okay. Okay, so in your opinion, should undergraduate students have a greater control over, or input in, the curriculum and/or assessment design of their chosen courses?

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P: I don’t think we should – I don’t think we should be able to come in and be like, “This is how it should be” but I think if something went really wrong, we should be able to help change it, and I think, like I said earlier about the student-staff liaison meetings, I think they – especially with English – have an impact in changing, like, I know one module I’m taking says that she has changed it a little bit around because some things didn’t work last year, and I think that’s really good. So, I think it should just be, like, you should just, kind of, work with the tutors to change it, not, kind of, say what it should be yourself. I think it should just be like a two-way thing, because obviously we’re the ones taking it, taking the exams and stuff, so… yeah.

I: Okay. Okay, in recent government policy on higher education, students have been placed at the heart of the system. So, for you personally, how central or important are students in this university?

P: To, what sorry, the uni?

I: Yeah.

P: Or the government? [laughing] Sorry, that one flew over my head a bit [laughing].

I: [laughing] So, in this university, how central or important do they consider their students?

P: Oh right, sorry, I get you. I think they’re pretty important, yeah.

I: Would you say they’re the central part of the university, or…?

P: I think they have to be really. I think if you don’t have the students, then, you just have a building, don’t you? [laughing] So I think definitely, they’re the central part.

I: Okay. So, what meaning does the word relationship have for you in the context of interacting with university staff?

P: I think respect and, like, that two-way thing of trying to improve things, and understand how to make, sort of, assessments better or the module better.

I: Okay. What do you consider to be the main purpose for building a relationship with university staff?

P: Probably to get the best out of what you’re here for. I mean, they ideally are here to help you so, I think just to maybe get the best grade that you can.

I: Okay, and is that purpose actually apparent in your relationships with staff, or is that, like, the ideal scenario?

P: I think sometimes, with some. I mean you can tell sometimes when some tutors are just a bit too busy to always help everyone, but then I know, I had one last year who was, like, always really more than happy to help or email me up, so I think it just depends who. But then I think you, kind of, understand as well that they are people too and they have lives, so

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they can’t just be there all the time but, if you really need them, I think they will or they’ll send you to someone who is.

I: Okay. So, do you consider there to be a link between the relationships you build with staff and your levels of engagement as a student?

P: Mmm definitely. I think again it’s the respect thing. If they help you and seem like they want you to do well, then you’re going to [coughing] sorry – engage more with their classes and you’ll want to do well. I think, definitely.

I: Okay. Can you describe to me a typical face-to-face encounter with a university staff member? So, some sort of interaction that happens the most frequently for you?

P: Oh God. I mean recently it’s just been lecture after lecture. I haven’t really had much, kind of, communication other than that. [pause] Probably – oh I don’t know, that’s a hard one. The most frequent is probably over email again. I get a lot of emails and at the end of the email, it’s always like, “If you need anything – if you need any help, just send me an email”. Email, email [laughing]. So that’s probably the most frequent – I don’t know, that’s a hard one.

I: Have you gone to ever speak to a tutor face-to-face about an essay or…?

P: Mmhmm [agreement].

I: Yeah? So, what – what kind of – how does that interaction play out? Like what happens exactly?

P: Well in the best scenario [laughing] – one of my tutors last year, because I haven’t really met up with anyone yet this year. Last year, like, they have office hours so she arranged to meet in the office hours and I came in with, like, a plan and she went over the plan with me and looked on the Blackboard and, kind of, gave tips and things that could make it a bit better and things that are, kind of, good. It’s more, like, a bit of confidence boost I think. Sometimes I think they can tell when all you need is a little bit of reassurance, and it’s, kind of, just coming in and they’re like, “It’s going to be okay” [laughing]. But I like that, I need that all the time so… yeah, it’s just, like, a bit of a boost to make you think, “It’s okay, just go for it”.

I: Okay, so in those face-to-face interactions, are you ever aware of a hierarchy?

P: Not in that particular one. I met with that tutor a few times about essays and I never felt like there was, like, a negative hierarchy. I think naturally, there probably is because they’re more of, like, a – I want to say parental, but not in, like, a – not in that way. Like a kind of – I don’t know, it’s not negative, they’re just, kind of, here to help if you know what I mean? So, there is a hierarchy but it’s not a bad one.

I: Okay. Have you ever had examples of a bad hierarchy?

P: I think there was one tutor that we all struggled with last year, because every, sort of, interpretation we put forward they were, kind of, like, “No, that’s not right” and we were all like, “Okay…” I think that’s probably the worst one though, which… it isn’t that bad, but we were just getting frustrated like, “You can’t just turn everyone down”. So, I think that’s probably the worst one, they’re like, “I’m right, my idea’s right”, we’re like, “In English,

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everyone’s right” [laughing]. So that’s probably been the worst, it’s never been anything, like, nasty though.

I: Okay. Can you think of any particularly good relationships, without telling me who they are, with any university staff and why you would say it was good?

P: [pause] Yeah, it’s hard to say who they are with not saying who they are. So, I do, like, a peer-assisted learner class thing and our person above us in English for that, is really supportive of what we want to do in the sessions and, if we’re struggling, we’ll just, sort of, go and see her and say like, “Oh we’re not sure what to do in this session” or… I think she’s very supportive and I know from having her as a tutor last year, she was really supportive in, like, lessons as well. So, I think she’s just an all-round supportive woman [laughing]. So… yeah that’s probably the best one. I think other than that, there’s no one – well, no one who I really think is not good, but I think generally in the English department, they’re all quite happy to help and they all seem quite friendly.

I: Yeah, okay. So, now is the fun part that everyone loves doing. So, can I ask you to draw your conception of a good relationship with a staff member? So, it can be anything you want, it doesn’t have to make sense or… however – whatever comes to your mind when you think of a good relationship with a staff member.

P: Oh God, I’m not the best drawer.

I: [laughing] Don’t worry, everyone has said that.

P: [laughing] [drawing] Okay, this is me. I’m just going to do a stick person. This is my work [laughing]. This is me unsure about my work [laughing]. They’re taller than me. That’s a thumbs up [laughing]. This is, like, such a child’s drawing [laughing], it’s really bad. I promise I did Art and it wasn’t that bad. I’m going to go with that [laughing].

I: Okay, brilliant. So, encouragement and support would be what you characterise…?

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P: I think I am definitely someone who doesn’t ever believe in themselves so, someone that’s just like, “You’re going to be fine” is probably the most important thing.

I: Okay brilliant. So, can I ask you to draw a bad relationship? [laughing]

P: Oh God, okay. I think that’s probably going to be similar but… I’ve never had to do something like this before [laughing]. My work’s empty now because no one’s helping me [laughing]. Can I write?

I: Yeah!

P: [pause for drawing] [laughing] So they’re just telling you what’s bad but not helping you so I’m not getting my work done and then I’m just going away sad [laughing].

I: Brilliant, okay. Thank you. Okay last one.

P: Oh God another one?

I: Okay, so this is your conception of your relationship with the university as a whole.

P: That’s hard. [pause for drawing] I don’t know what their logo is, it’s a [removed for confidentiality], I’m going to draw [removed for confidentiality]. [pause for drawing] Okay so, here I’ve got the uni [sic] and I think there’s loads of people, and some people are happy with it and some people aren’t and I think, you get that, like I said earlier about getting the idea of community, but there’s – I think there’s gaps in there still. So, it’s not all bad, I just think with the whole Student Union thing, I think sometimes it’s not good at including everyone. So, it’s not all bad, but there’s just a few gaps. I’m not a drawer, if you’d asked me to, like, hand sew that, it would have been great [laughing].

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I: [laughing] It might have taken a bit longer though!

P: [laughing] Yeah.

I: Okay, so there’s often a lot of encouragement for undergraduates to engage with different experiences that the university offers, such as joining societies and taking up volunteering, or getting involved with the SU. So, what are your thoughts on this?

P: I think it’s good to encourage people, but I think sometimes it rejects people. Like in my first year – are we allowed to talk about experiences?

I: Yeah of course!

P: In my first year, I joined a society and I went up until Christmas and I, like, tried to persist with it but, no one would talk to me in the sessions because it was so cliquey and I just had to stop going because it was really awkward. So, I think it’s, like I said, I think you have to be, kind of, a particular person to, kind of, fit in and that’s why, like, me and some other people probably do, like, like go and start off your own thing like, kind of, a bit separate.

I: Yeah okay. What are your thoughts on the role of the Student’s Union in terms of engaging you as an undergraduate?

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P: [smirking] I think they try but [laughing], it’s just, kind of, a bit weird. Like, I don’t know, they go for the people that are, kind of – put themselves out there all the time and want to go out and get drunk and want to get on the table and dance, and that’s just not really me. So, I feel like they put it out there, but kind of sometimes, it’s kind of shoved down your throat a bit and if you don’t fit into that, kind of, SU mould then you’re, kind of, rejected a bit. And that sounds really horrible and harsh but that’s – I think that’s how I’ve found it.

I: Yeah, fair enough!

P: [laughing]

I: Was there some sort of table dancing thing going on in the SU because that’s come up a lot?

P: Yeah.

I: Oh, there is? [laughing]

P: Yeah, they do a quiz and one of the rounds is, like, [removed for confidentiality] and I’m like, “Hmm I’m not going to do that so…”. But girls do, they love it, and guys do too. But I think they try and appear like they’re including everyone, like, I know they have ambassadors for, kind of like, LGBT and diversity and things like that, but I mean probably be better asking one of them if they feel accepted by the SU. I mean they probably do but I just don’t. I find it a bit weird [laughing].

I: Fair enough. So how valuable do you see the Student’s Union as a space dedicated to students?

P: I think to some people it definitely is valuable, like, the sports teams like I said, I think it is a really important part of uni [sic] life. But I also don’t think you need it. So, I feel like I’m still getting a good aspect of uni [sic] without it so…

I: Okay. How much of a valued member of the university do you consider yourself to be?

P: I try to be a good one [laughing]. So, like, I started a club and I work for the outreach team and, like, I try – I do the peer-assisted learner classes and I do, like, the Open Days. So, I think – I hope I’m valued [laughing]. I do try to, like, get involved with it and stuff so…yeah maybe… I hope I am.

I: Would you say it’s the department that values you or the whole university?

P: Probably not the whole university, maybe the department and then the outreach team and then the people that come to the book club. Probably more department actually.

I: Okay. Okay, well that was the last question.

P: Was it?

I: Yeah! So, thank you very much for your time. Is there anything you want to add that we didn’t talk about?

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P: Mmm I don’t think so. Did I answer everything okay?

I: Yeah, no, brilliant!

P: I have a tendency to waffle a bit [laughing].

I: [laughing] Not at all.

[End of Recording]

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