Transcript of Statements - Waynesboro

8/9/2019 Transcript of Statements - Waynesboro

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·In The M atter Of :

·In Re: Pa lmetto Pipel ine

________________________________________________________

Transcr ipt of Statem ents

M arch 11, 2015

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Tiffany A l ley G lobal Report ing & Video

730 P eachtree St reet NE

Suite 470

At lanta, GA 3 0308

770.343.9696

www.t i f fanyal ley.com


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·1· · APPEARANCES:

·2· ·On behalf of Kinder Morgan:

·3· · · · · · ·JONATHON CHALLY, ESQ.

·4· · · · · · · ANDREW MUTTER, ESQ.

·5· · · · · · ·King & Spalding

·6· · · · · · ·1180 Peachtree Street, N.E.

·7· · · · · · · Atlanta, Georgia 30309

·8· · · · · · ·404.572.4705

·9· · · · · · ·[email protected]

10· ·On behalf of Kinder Morgan:

11· · · · · · · ALLEN FORE

12· · · · · · ·Vice President, Public Affairs

13· · · · · · ·Kinder Morgan

14· · · · · · ·3250 Lacey Road, Suite 700

15· · · · · · ·Downers Grove, Illinois 60515

16· · · · · · ·630.725.3044

17· · · · · · ·[email protected]

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19· · · · · · ·BRIAN S. WILLIAMS, P.E.

20· · · · · · ·Director - Engineering

21· · · · · · ·Kinder Morgan

22· · · · · · ·1000 Windward Concourse, Suite 450

23· · · · · · · Alpharetta, Georgia 30005

24· · · · · · ·770.751.4248


In Re: Palmetto Pipeline Transcript of Statements

770-343-9696 Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video

In Re: Palmetto Pipeline Transcript of Statements 03/11/2015

770-343-9696 Tiffany Alley Global Reporting & Video Page 2


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·1· · · · · · ·SWAIN M. GUZZARDI

·2· · · · · · ·Senior Agent II - Land & ROW

·3· · · · · · ·Kinder Morgan

·4· · · · · · ·1000 Windward Concourse, Suite 450

·5· · · · · · · Alpharetta, Georgia 30005

·6· · · · · · ·770.751.4248

·7· · · · · · ·[email protected]

·8· ·On behalf of Georgia Department of Transportation:

·9· · · · · · ·Michael J. Bolden

10· · · · · · ·State Utilities Engineer

11· · · · · · ·Georgia Department of Transportation

12· · · · · · ·600 West Peachtree Street, N.W.

13· · · · · · ·10th Floor

14· · · · · · · Atlanta, Georgia 30308

15· · · · · · ·404.631.1354


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·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·-· - -

·2· · · · · · ·(Pursuant to OCGA 15-14-37 (a) and (b), a

·3· ·written disclosure statement was submitted by the court

·4· ·reporter to all counsel present at the deposition and

·5· ·is attached hereto.)

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·1· · · · · · MR. CHALLY:· Okay.· Well, thank you everyone

·2· ·for coming this evening.· My name is Jon Chally.· I'm

·3· ·with King and Spalding, the law firm.· With me up in

·4· ·front are Allen Fore and Brian Williams of Kinder

·5· ·Morgan.

·6· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· Can't hear you.

·7· · · · · · MR. CHALLY:· Can't hear.· Okay.· Let me speak

·8· ·up.· I'm Jon Chally.· This is Allen Fore and Brian

·9· ·Williams.· We're here to talk to you about the Palmetto

10· ·Pipeline Project this evening.

11· · · · · · Palmetto Pipeline Project has filed an

12· ·application with the Department of Transportation.· The

13· ·application seeks certificate of public convenience and

14· ·necessity related to this particular pipeline project.

15· · · · · · We're here this evening at the DOT's request

16· ·to hold public comment meetings where we provide an

17· ·opportunity for you all to make whatever comments that

18· ·you may wish to make in connection with this process.

19· ·We're going to tell you a little bit about the project,

20· ·give a short presentation and then open up the floor

21· ·for public comment.

22· · · · · · We have a court reporter here who will take

23· ·down comments that you make.· We'd ask that you give us

24· ·your name and your address so we have that for the

25· ·record, and then we will be providing those comments





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·1· ·and the transcript of these proceedings on to the DOT

·2· ·in connection with the process.

·3· · · · · · We have also given you an opportunity to

·4· ·provide written comments related to this project.· You

·5· ·can send those written comments to me.· My name and

·6· ·address is in the notice that brought you all here

·7· ·today.· You can also send that information to the

·8· ·Department of Transportation directly.· Okay?· I think

·9· ·we're ready to go ahead.

10· · · · · · MR. FORE:· Thank you, Jon.

11· · · · · · And again thanks for coming out tonight.· I'm

12· · Allen Fore, vice president for Kinder Morgan, and with

13· ·me is Brian Williams, our project manager for Kinder

14· ·Morgan.

15· · · · · · So what we wanted to do tonight, and is this

16· ·our fourth public meeting we've had on the project, is

17· ·to tell you a little bit about what we do as a company

18· ·and what we're currently doing here in Georgia and then

19· ·talk specifically about our project, our proposed

20· ·project, and the next steps on the project's schedule

21· ·and then answer questions that you may have specific to

22· ·the project.

23· · · · · · So we are early in our process.· This project

24· ·is beginning the public outreach component and

25· ·dialogue, and as I said, we've had three meetings so





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·1· ·far and they've all been I think productive.· Brian and

·2· ·I have learned a lot from the meetings.

·3· · · · · · Our land agents are here too somewhere and

·4· ·they're learning.· Concerns are brought out by

·5· ·stakeholders, landowners and other elected officials

·6· ·and others and we consider these very productive

·7· ·dialogue.· And the input that we receive at these

·8· ·meetings are taken into account because we have folks

·9· ·that are managing the project right here for you.· So

10· ·we look forward to a good dialogue tonight as well.

11· · · · · · A little bit about our company.· We are in the

12· ·transportation business, so our business is to

13· ·transport energy from one place to another whether it's

14· ·natural gas, which is our core business, or refined

15· · products which is another key part of our business.

16· ·Refined products is primarily gasoline, diesel and jet

17· ·fuel.

18· · · · · · So we transport energy from one place to

19· ·another at the request of customers.· So when we

20· · propose the projects, we do two things.· We ask for

21· ·commercial service.· In other words, this is a billion

22· ·dollar project that we're proposing, and we need to be

23· ·sure that there is a need for the project.

24· · · · · · The way that we're sure about that is that the

25· ·customers will sign up for long-term contracts much





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·1· ·like tolls.· So our revenue streams from the pipeline

·2· ·comes from people actually using it, the customers that

·3· ·deliver in this case gasoline to gas stations that go

·4· ·to homes, businesses and automobiles.

·5· · · · · · So that's our first interest.· So when we have

·6· ·a project and think about the project, we need to know

·7· ·that it's needed and that there's been commercial

·8· · backing.· We've secured that.

·9· · · · · · The second piece is the regulatory component.

10· · We know that the project is going to have significant

11· · permitting requirements, and in this case I'll talk

12· ·about those in just a minute.

13· · · · · · Permits from the state and federal level,

14· ·we're going to need to secure those.· We need to design

15· ·a project that's going to meet and exceed those

16· ·standards from the federal and state government and we

17· ·think we've done that.

18· · · · · · So we're proceeding here and talking about the

19· · project as real and we are planning to construct

20· · pending the approval of the regulatory system.· This is

21· ·going to be, this project -- we'll go back to our

22· ·original map.· This is our overall system of 80,000

23· · miles of pipe through the United States.

24· · · · · · We break that that down to the Plantation

25· · pipeline.· It's already currently transporting product,





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·1· ·about 600,000 barrels a day about 3100 miles, we're

·2· ·doing business for many, many years.· It's a major

·3· ·supplier of refined products to all of the areas you

·4· ·see along the map including the State of Georgia.

·5· · · · · · This is a current asset we have that has been

·6· ·delivering refined products here for many, many years.

·7· ·For example, jet fuel to Hartsfield Airport, military

·8· · bases, gasoline to gas stations.

·9· · · · · · So it's a major provider of refined products

10· ·from Mississippi to Washington, D.C. where we provide

11· ·to Reagan National Airport.· So gas, gasoline, diesel,

12· ·jet fuel literally all along and a major provider for

13· ·the southeastern United States.

14· · · · · · And what we're proposing is a pipeline to come

15· ·off of the Plantation system to service out of Belton,

16· ·South Carolina, to service the Augusta area, Savannah

17· ·and down to Jacksonville, Florida, and Brian will talk

18· ·to you specifically about the project in just a moment.

19· · · · · · It's important to know what we currently have

20· ·in the state.· We're the largest pipeline operating in

21· ·the country and Georgia is one of our major asset

22· ·states where we have significant assets represented

23· ·currently.· So what we're proposing today, not today,

24· · but proposing for the project we're talking about today

25· ·is a project that is similar in nature to other things





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·1· ·we've already done in the state.

·2· · · · · · Every project is unique, but if you want to

·3· ·have an idea of what we do in the state, we have 3,000

·4· · miles of pipe currently operating in the state

·5· ·transporting refined products and natural gas

·6· · primarily.· It's a good representation of what this

·7· · project would be and would look like.

·8· · · · · · Also currently here in the county we have

·9· ·assets as well represented by our natural gas system

10· ·and our Elba Express system.· Those are natural gas

11· ·systems currently in operation and currently flowing

12· · product.

13· · · · · · From a regulatory perspective we're just

14· · beginning the preparation of our permits for

15· ·application to these agencies and others.· The way the

16· · process generally works in pipeline construction is we,

17· ·as I said, design a project knowing what the regulatory

18· ·standards are and we try to design a project that's

19· ·going to meet and the exceed those standards.

20· · · · · · In the State of Georgia there's a very

21· ·rigorous environmental process that we have to secure

22· · permits through and we're just in the beginning stages.

23· ·So we propose the project.· The regulators at the state

24· ·and federal level ultimately will determine when and

25· ·how we build this project or if we build this project.





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·1· · · · · · So a few agencies represented here, the Corps

·2· ·the Engineers and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service

·3· ·are two primary federal agencies, the State of Georgia

·4· ·as well as the two other states, Florida and South

·5· ·Carolina, will have significant permitting requirements

·6· ·as well.· So with that, Brian, you can talk about the

·7· · project.

·8· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Thank you.· I'm Brian Williams,

·9· ·engineering director and project director for this

10· ·project.· I'll give you folks a quick overview of the

11· ·project.· And as Jon mentioned early on, Allen and I

12· ·and the other Kinder Morgan folks will be available

13· ·after the question-and-answer session if you folks have

14· ·questions that you'd rather ask individually of us, and

15· ·we'll stay as late as folks have questions.

16· · · · · · All right.· Allen mentioned this project is

17· ·roughly 1 billion dollars.· That billion dollars covers

18· ·this new 360-mile pipeline through South Carolina,

19· ·Georgia and Florida and also modifications to that

20· ·Plantation pipeline system that Allen showed you that

21· ·is the Palmetto pipeline.

22· · · · · · Let's see, we covered that commercial

23· ·commitments to back this pipeline.· The customers when

24· ·we first said we were interested in the potential to

25· ·build the pipeline and we conducted what's called an





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·1· ·open season, and that began last summer and concluded

·2· ·in late October.

·3· · · · · · And in that process we tell potential shippers

·4· ·that we're interested in building this.· We think this

·5· ·is about what the capacity would be, and we see it's

·6· ·serving certain markets.· Are you interested?

·7· · · · · · And we ask the customers if you are

·8· ·interested, sign a commitment for us because we're not

·9· ·going to build it unless we have guarantees that make

10· ·sense and that there really is a need that's being

11· ·served and we receive sufficient commitments to go

12· ·forward with the project and customers.

13· · · · · · As the slide notes, the ultimate capacity of

14· ·the pipeline we're looking at is 167,000 barrels per

15· ·day.· We anticipate that the starting up will be at a

16· ·number lower than that probably in the range of 150,000

17· ·barrels a day.· And as Allen mentioned, it will serve

18· ·markets in Augusta, Savannah and Jacksonville.

19· · · · · · Additional facilities will be part of the

20· ·project.· The initial point where Palmetto will

21· ·originate from is Belton, South Carolina.· And if any

22· ·of you have been to Belton, you probably have seen that

23· ·terminal that is served by the Plantation and Colonial

24· ·pipelines.· There's an existing tank farm terminal

25· ·community there where trucks are loaded and go out to





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·1· ·retail outlets.

·2· · · · · · Palmetto will be acquiring a piece of property

·3· ·there from a former terminal operator and building a

·4· ·new facility on that property which will have some

·5· ·tanks for storing various grades of gasoline and ultra

·6· ·low sulphur diesel, the on-road highway diesel as well

·7· ·as one tank for storing denatured ethanol and there

·8· ·will also be an origin point pump station built there.

·9· · · · · · Along the route -- along the route roughly at

10· ·90-mile spacings wherever those work out, right there

11· ·and there (indicating), we would have intermediate pump

12· ·stations to boost the pressure and keep the pipeline

13· ·flowing.

14· · · · · · Where we are in the process right now is

15· ·finalizing our hydraulic calculations.· That's what

16· ·determines where those pump stations go, and that's

17· ·based largely on elevation and changes in elevation.

18· ·So we'll have that wrapped up here in the next few

19· ·weeks and nail that down.

20· · · · · · The way Kinder Morgan builds those sites is we

21· ·buy that property in fee rather than an easement.· So

22· ·we would buy these pump station sites or these

23· ·intermediate stations.· They are typically two to

24· ·five-acre sites, and we'll take a look at what those

25· ·look like in just a moment.





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·1· · · · · · Let me back up one slide.· One thing I wanted

·2· ·to talk about is the schedule.· Allen mentioned that

·3· ·we're having public information meetings now, outreach

·4· ·meetings.· We've selected an initial route and we are

·5· ·refining that route right now.· We would anticipate

·6· ·going through construction in the spring of 2016 with

·7· ·an operational date of July of 2017.

·8· · · · · · Here is the proposed route in Burke County,

·9· ·and let me point out one thing.· In selecting this

10· ·initial route, one of the things we endeavor to do is

11· ·minimize the impact on the areas where we would be

12· ·installing new pipeline.

13· · · · · · And what we've looked at on this pipeline is

14· ·locating the pipeline adjacent to existing utility

15· ·easements as much as we can.· And we have -- This

16· ·initial route that we selected is a little over 80

17· ·percent co-located with either existing pipelines or

18· ·electric power lines.

19· · · · · · And by co-locating what we intend to do is buy

20· ·an easement that abuts, that's adjacent to an existing

21· ·easement to try to minimize the impact, as I said,

22· ·going through as opposed to having to acquire easements

23· ·through a brand new area.

24· · · · · · Let me back up a slide, a couple here.· What

25· ·we're looking at is being on adjacent to existing





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·1· ·pipeline easements all the way down to Augusta.· We're

·2· ·mostly on power line easements, a little bit of

·3· ·railroad easement, a little bit of pipeline getting

·4· ·down to Savannah.

·5· · · · · · And then once we're south of Savannah, it's

·6· ·almost entirely on another pipeline easement adjacent

·7· ·to that.· That gets us around to the west side of

·8· ·Jacksonville and then we would work our way again to

·9· ·the port area.

10· · · · · · One thing that we may not have done a good job

11· ·of mentioning is that currently the Savannah and

12· ·Jacksonville markets are served by justice.· Almost all

13· ·of the product that comes into those products, the

14· ·gasoline diesel comes in on either an ocean point barge

15· ·or a tanker.

16· · · · · · And so what our customers are telling us is

17· ·that they would prefer to ship in those markets by

18· ·pipeline, and there are a number of reasons behind

19· ·that.· It's typically more economical.· It's a safer

20· ·means of transportation, and the other thing is vessels

21· ·are getting harder to lease and rent and schedule now.

22· · · · · · Also, vessels are subject to hurricane issues

23· ·during the hurricane season.· All of the product that's

24· ·consumed here in the southeast is produced from the

25· ·Gulf Coast refineries are stretching from the most of





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·1· ·the Houston Baytown area to Baton Rouge, New Orleans,

·2· ·and Pascagoula.

·3· · · · · · So wherever it originates from it goes over

·4· ·the water from the East Coast and goes around Florida.

·5· ·If there's a hurricane in the gulf or a hurricane into

·6· ·the Atlantic, it can impact those vessels' schedules.

·7· · · · · · On this slide, it's a little hard to see

·8· ·perhaps from where you are, but this kind of depicts

·9· ·what pipeline construction looks like it.· If you want

10· ·to see it up close, there's one of the posters over on

11· ·the easels here, and we can walk through that with you

12· ·later if you like.

13· · · · · · What this shows is every single step of the

14· ·pipeline construction project, and one of the things

15· ·that we are doing right now is beginning our route

16· ·survey.· Some of you may have received letters asking

17· ·for survey permission to enter your property to survey

18· ·along this proposed easement, this route.

19· · · · · · That's the first step and that's what's shown

20· ·up here which is survey crews going in.· Those survey

21· ·crews will be putting out stakes periodically along

22· ·that route where the centerline of the pipe will go.

23· ·They will be followed very shortly by some other crews

24· ·that will be looking at different types of resources.

25· · · · · · They're looking for endangered species.· We





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·1· ·have biologists who will be doing that.· We have

·2· ·cultural resource specialists who go along and look for

·3· ·cultural artifact issues, historical impacts, and we

·4· ·have wetlands delineations that's also part of this

·5· ·process.

·6· · · · · · Those folks will start probably here in just

·7· ·the next week or two.· Those first groups will be

·8· ·getting out following the survey groups.· After survey

·9· ·there's some clearing and grading.

10· · · · · · And then this next step you'll see everything

11· ·goes from kind of green, and there's a pile of topsoil

12· ·that's pushed off from the side of the pipeline

13· ·easement because we want to when we restore the pipe

14· ·bring that topsoil back across and reseed with native

15· ·materials.· And we work with the local folks to

16· ·establish what the right mixes are for given areas.

17· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· What material are --

18· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· I'm sorry, I cannot hear?

19· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· Are you putting down pipe

20· ·bedding material underneath this pipeline?

21· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· The question asked -- If you

22· ·would, please, what we'd rather do is save them for

23· ·later.· But the question that was asked was will we be

24· ·placing bedding material in the trench prior to

25· ·lowering in the pipe?





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·1· · · · · · And the answer there is it depends.· In most

·2· ·places we do wind up having to pad the ditch with

·3· ·rock-free dirt or soil prior to laying the pipe in to

·4· ·make sure that the pipe is not resting on any rocks.

·5· · · · · · In some areas we're fortunate enough where the

·6· ·soil is cleaned up, the trench is clean enough, so it

·7· ·just depends on where we are.· So the right-of-way is

·8· ·cleared, the topsoil is moved off of the trench, a

·9· ·trench is cut in, and the pipe is strung out along that

10· ·trench and welded up.

11· · · · · · The pipe we're talking about for this project

12· ·is 16-inch diameter, high strength steel and will be

13· ·coated with a material called fusion bonded epoxy,

14· ·which is a very good impermeable material.· The pipe

15· ·joints they call them will be welded together and then

16· ·that place it's welded is also coated with fusion

17· ·bonded epoxy prior to lowering the pipe into the ditch.

18· · · · · · Once the pipe is in the ditch and everything

19· ·has been cleaned up, we have another crew that comes by

20· ·and installs what's called a cathodic protection

21· ·system, impressed current cathodic protection.· And it

22· ·is a DC voltage electric current that's driven into the

23· ·ground through anodes that are laid alongside the pipe

24· ·route and it draws electrons onto the pipe.

25· · · · · · And what that does is, you know, normally when





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·1· ·something rusts you get a pit there and get rust

·2· ·because electrons are going away from the piece of

·3· ·steel.· Well, we know that there are probably tiny,

·4· ·tiny or can be tiny, tiny little flaws in that coating,

·5· ·and by pushing electrons onto those spots you prevent

·6· ·corrosion from happening in those spots.· So that's one

·7· ·of the things that goes along with pipeline

·8· ·construction these days.

·9· · · · · · And we see it lowering in and then restoration

10· ·of the right-of-way.· And that's what some operating

11· ·pipeline right-of-ways in the State of Georgia look

12· ·like that Kinder Morgan has.

13· · · · · · This is what pump stations look like, and I

14· ·mentioned these are typically two to five-acre sites.

15· ·Typically, they're pretty much in gravel.· There is not

16· ·a lot to these.· A pipe would come out of the ground.

17· ·There would be a few valves that connect the pipe to

18· ·pump units.

19· · · · · · There would be a substation off on one side, a

20· ·small metal building that has an electrical switch here

21· ·and the emissions, depending on where it is, it might

22· ·have a small maintenance building or warehouse-type

23· ·building there.

24· · · · · · One thing that we do at Kinder Morgan, this is

25· ·kind of our standard pump station design now.· We know





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·1· · · · · · We also expect about 28 permanent jobs to be

·2· ·part of the project as well.· From a tax perspective we

·3· ·anticipate about 4.9 or 5 million dollars a year in tax

·4· ·revenue.· Probably about 425,000 of that will be here

·5· ·in the county, the county taxing bodies.· That's based

·6· ·upon the valuation of our asset of the pipe itself or

·7· ·any aboveground facilities like pump stations or

·8· ·anything else that is associated with the pipeline.

·9· · · · · · So that's an annual payment that will be

10· ·coming to the taxing county bodies annually once the

11· ·pipeline is in service.· And then the additional gas

12· ·supply is the real long-term benefit for a project like

13· ·that, expanding the infrastructure and increasing

14· ·reliability of gas.

15· · · · · · And while we can't guarantee prices when

16· ·you're bringing in a significant new supply of any

17· ·products through an area, it increases competition and

18· ·would drive prices down.· So we hope that is an

19· ·ancillary benefit as well.

20· · · · · · As I said, we do operate our systems in

21· ·Georgia currently in the 3,000 miles of pipe we

22· ·operate.· We have a headquarters just outside of

23· · Atlanta for the southeast for our products division.

24· ·So we're a long-time corporate citizens here in the

25· ·state and work closely with emergency responders and





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·1· ·local governments, and we look forward to doing that

·2· ·here in Burke County as well.

·3· · · · · · Through donations and partnerships and

·4· ·community investment we want to be a good neighbor.

·5· ·This is a big project.· We know it is and we know it

·6· ·will have big impacts, and it will be part of the

·7· ·community for many years.· So we want to be sure that

·8· ·through this process we're good neighbors.

·9· · · · · · And whenever we do meetings like this, I

10· ·always say that it's not about what we say here tonight

11· ·at the beginning of a project.· It's what folks say

12· ·about us at the end of the project.· I'm not saying

13· ·we're perfect and we do everything right and everything

14· ·is going to be perfect here.

15· · · · · · But on balance at the end of our projects as

16· ·we go into operations, and this is in talking to

17· ·communities where we currently do business among the

18· ·3,000 miles that we do business, I think on balance we

19· ·do what we say we're going to do.· We're responsible

20· ·corporate citizens and we operate our pipelines safely.

21· · · · · · So with that, Jon, I'll be happy to answer

22· ·questions.

23· · · · · · MR. CHALLY:· Okay.· So that concludes the

24· ·presentation.· Next we will take comments from you all.

25· · And as I said from the outset, what I'll ask you to do





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·1· ·is I'll ask you to come up so that the court reporter

·2· ·can hear you, and then she'll take down your name and

·3· ·your address and we'll respond to whatever questions

·4· ·you may have.· Okay?

·5· · · · · · MS. GORDON:· So come up there?

·6· · · · · · MR. CHALLY:· Yes.· Come on up so she can hear

·7· ·and then we'd ask you to turn around so everybody can

·8· ·hear.

·9· · · · · · MR. CHALLY:· I would say -- I'm sorry, just to

10· ·make clear Brian said this from the start.· We will be

11· ·here.· If you don't want to make a public comment, we

12· ·will be here after the public comment portion of the

13· ·meeting closes to answer your questions that you may

14· ·have.· So you can do that as well.

15· · · · · · Go ahead.

16· · · · · · MS. GORDON:· My name is Judith Gordon.· I do

17· ·research on endangered species in the Savannah River,

18· ·and I am very concerned about possible pollution into

19· ·the tributaries into Savannah, none which are labeled

20· ·on the maps over there.· So it's very difficult to tell

21· ·which tributaries your pipeline is crossing.

22· · · · · · Along with this there are a lot of safety

23· ·concerns, and I am going to be quoting this from

24· ·articles that are available to any of you online.· And

25· ·according to this Kinder Morgan, the parent company,





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·1· ·throughout the U.S. since 2003 has had over 180 spills,

·2· ·evacuations, explosions, fires, et cetera.

·3· · · · · · And the Wall Street Journal in a recent

·4· ·article said, "Is Kinder Morgan scrimping on its

·5· ·pipelines after an investment analyst charged the

·6· ·company was starving its pipelines of routine

·7· ·maintenance spending in order to return more cash to

·8· ·investors.· The curbed maintenance may account for the

·9· ·high number of Kinder Morgan pipeline accidents in the

10· ·last decade."· And you can read about this online.

11· · · · · · Furthermore, where this line starts in Belton,

12· ·South Carolina, in December recently 2014 there was a

13· ·leakage from a pinhole leak in the Plantation line

14· ·which this line connects to of 8,000 gallons of

15· ·gasoline.· A spokesman for Kinder Morgan stated and I

16· ·quote, "While these pipes are old and they're bound to

17· ·get leaks and cracks, they can be minor and hard for

18· ·the transfer station to detect a drop in pressure."

19· · · · · · So I would like to say that I think they're

20· ·not being honest with you in terms of what could happen

21· ·if there's a leak.· Yes, this is going to be a new

22· ·line, but eventually it's going to get old.· And the

23· ·Savannah River is a hidden treasure for us to be

24· ·subjecting it to gasoline, petroleum products

25· ·particularly when there's going to be diminishing





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·1· ·quantity of this kind of product in the United States.

·2· ·Thank you.

·3· · · · · · MR. FORE:· So appreciate the comment and I

·4· ·want to talk a little bit about the overall safety

·5· ·designed specifically to our product system and what we

·6· ·do to operate that system safely.

·7· · · · · · So the good thing about research is you can

·8· ·alter your own independent research.· And no question

·9· ·there are those who aren't supportive of our company or

10· ·what we do, but I think if you do your own independent

11· ·research, you can find out from analysts who are

12· ·neutral that we are respected in the industry for safe

13· ·operation of our system.

14· · · · · · In fact, we publish -- one of the few energy

15· ·companies, maybe the only energy company currently that

16· ·publishes our safety record on our website.· So you can

17· ·go to our website and get details about our safety.

18· · · · · · In addition, the U.S. Department of

19· ·Transportation, Office of Pipeline Safety regulates the

20· ·operation of pipelines.· They also keep that based on

21· ·their system of pipeline incident reports, so you can

22· ·go there and do your own independent evaluation.

23· · · · · · The pipeline is the safest way to transport

24· ·energy.· I don't think anybody questions that.· The

25· ·U.S. Department of Transportation, that's them talking





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·1· ·the safest way to transport energy.· But like any type

·2· ·of infrastructure, roads or bridges, I'm sure there are

·3· ·some elected officials here that deal in roads or

·4· ·bridges.· You have to maintain that infrastructure.

·5· ·You have to maintain the integrity of that

·6· ·infrastructure.· You have to spend the money necessary

·7· ·to invest in that infrastructure.

·8· · · · · · And the Wall Street Journal article referenced

·9· ·was not the Wall Street Journal speaking.· It was

10· ·quoting someone who was opposed to our company, an

11· ·investor that was part of that.· But I encourage you to

12· ·do your own independent research on our company and I

13· ·think you'll find that we are in the industry, we're

14· ·respected for being a safe operator of pipeline.

15· · · · · · So, Brian, do you want to talk specifically?

16· · · · · · MR. FORE:· Oh, I don't know.

17· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Ma'am, the question was were

18· ·you representing a group is the question from up here

19· ·at the front.

20· · · · · · MS. GORDON:· Are you asking me?

21· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Yes, ma'am.

22· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· I'm retired from the Georgia

23· ·Regents University.· I'm a biologist and I do research.

24· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· If you can hang around for a

25· ·few minutes afterwards, I would like to speak to you





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·1· ·the operator is trained to shut the pipeline down.· And

·2· ·the pipeline is not restarted until that controller and

·3· ·his boss and usually all the way up to the director of

·4· ·that control center are satisfied that they know what's

·5· ·going on and that there's not a leak.

·6· · · · · · Let's see, that's the computation monitoring.

·7· · What else do we do safety wise?· Pardon?· Thank you.

·8· ·Block valves.· We're required to have block valves

·9· ·installed by the Federal Office of Pipeline Safety.· It

10· ·falls under the Federal Department of Transportation.

11· · · · · · And within the DOT there's an organization

12· ·called PHMSA, Pipeline Hazardous Material Safety

13· · Administration, and they publish some regulations.· And

14· ·if you want to, you can find those regulations under

15· ·the 49 CFR, Code of Federal Regulations, part 195, and

16· ·it tells us how we have to design, operate and maintain

17· · pipelines.

18· · · · · · And we're required to place what we call block

19· ·valves at certain spots along that pipeline.· And those

20· ·are so that if heaven forbid there ever is a problem,

21· ·we can close those values and stop the flow and isolate

22· ·the pipeline.· They're also used occasionally for

23· · maintenance activities.

24· · · · · · Kinder Morgan has made the commitment that

25· ·we're going to be off what the standard calls for by





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·1· ·just installing these valves.· We're installing these

·2· ·valves with remote control capability on them so that

·3· ·they can be operated from Atlanta.

·4· · · · · · So if those operators sitting at the console

·5· ·see something and they shut the pipeline down, they can

·6· ·close those valves.· We do not have to wait for someone

·7· ·to get in his truck, one of the maintenance technicians

·8· ·and drive out to a site and manually close those

·9· ·valves.

10· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· Are the valves underground?

11· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· The question was are those

12· ·valves underground, and the answer is we haven't

13· ·completely finished that design.· I'm thinking about

14· ·the body itself will be underground.· The

15· ·superstructure and that operator would be aboveground.

16· · · · · · And there's a reason for that which is simply

17· ·that when you get to a 16-inch valve and you put the

18· ·whole thing aboveground, you have a platform that's

19· ·about 10 to 12 feet up and somebody has to climb up to

20· ·work on that valve and creates other issues like worker

21· ·safety.

22· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· Do you know the distance it is

23· ·from one valve to the next?

24· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· We're still working through all

25· ·of those.





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·1· ·how are you going to clean that up?

·2· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· By the way, can you all hear me

·3· ·in the back without a microphone?

·4· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· Yes.

·5· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· The question was if there was a

·6· ·leak in the future, how is that cleaned up.· And there

·7· ·are a number -- unfortunately pipelines have

·8· ·occasionally leaked.· We know that.· We read that in

·9· ·the paper.

10· · · · · · And the cleanup on that, what typically

11· ·happens is all of the impacted soil is excavated and

12· ·hauled off which usually means it's burned once it's --

13· ·Yeah, we burn dirt, and once we've burned off all the

14· ·volatiles from the dirt then it can go in the landfill.

15· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· But what do you do to rebuild

16· ·the property?

17· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· Yeah, we've got historical

18· ·properties and things.

19· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· We have a recreational area for

20· ·our livelihood down here too.

21· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Okay.· And I know we're talking

22· ·about hypotheticals.· Okay.· I'm talking about a

23· ·typical cleanup activity and clean soil is brought in

24· ·and the pipeline area is restored.· And that's kind of

25· ·a quick synopsis of how it's done.





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·1· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· What do you do if it gets into

·2· ·an aquifer underground?

·3· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Sir, if you want a follow-up

·4· ·question, could you give your name to the court

·5· ·reporter.

·6· · · · · · MR. MILLER:· Yes.· My name is Andy Miller. I

·7· ·live on 634 Miller Pond Road.· If the gas leaks out of

·8· ·the pipeline and it gets out, what if it gets into the

·9· ·aquifers underground?

10· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· The question for the group is

11· ·what happens if gas gets into an aquifer.· And that has

12· ·happened.· I can't claim that I know of one on the

13· ·Plantation that's in an aquifer, but there are cleanup

14· ·ways to do that.

15· · · · · · And what typically happens is they install

16· ·many, many monitor wells to find the extent of any

17· ·contamination and they install pump-out wells to create

18· ·what's called a cone of compression and pull any

19· ·contaminants down into a cone shape, you know, from

20· ·pulling down the water table in one area.· They suck it

21· ·out there.

22· · · · · · And they also inject air into that area

23· ·through what's called air sparging wells to force air

24· ·through the soil and through the water in that area to

25· ·help move any contaminants along and help volatize or





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·1· ·oxidize contaminants.

·2· · · · · · MS. BONITATIBUS:· Tonya Bonitatibus,

I am the Savannah

·5· ·Riverkeeper.· Tonight I am actually representing a

·6· ·group called Kick Back the Pipeline.· This is a group

·7· ·of over 20 concerned citizen groups throughout three

·8· ·states that are very worried about this project.

·9· · · · · · And I have a couple of questions.· That's

10· ·awful (indicating).· Can y'all still hear me?

11· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· Yes, ma'am.

12· · · · · · MS. BONITATIBUS:· All right.· I can speak up.

13· ·I can do that.· All right.· So a couple of things.· One

14· ·of the things that I wanted to ask you about first is

15· ·the cathodic protection system.

16· · · · · · And this is more of a question -- the Sago

17· ·pipeline (phonetic) which is another pipeline, when

18· ·talking about co-locating, they tell us that the

19· ·cathodic protection system doesn't work under power

20· ·lines and that's why they refuse to put down

21· ·transmission lines.· So I'm asking you which one is

22· ·telling us the truth?

23· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Okay.· That's a good question.

24· ·Did everybody hear it?

25· · · · · · MS. BONITATIBUS:· The energy that they put


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·1· ·through the lines to keep the corrosion down.

·2· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· And I'm not a cathodic

·3· ·protection specialist.· There are people that earn

·4· ·degrees in that, and there are several levels of

·5· ·certification -- engineers that specialize in that.

·6· · · · · · But Sago I would say is taking a little

·7· ·different approach than Kinder Morgan.· We do have

·8· ·plenty of experience with pipelines installed under

·9· ·high voltage power lines.· And what happens when you

10· ·install a piece of steel under a high voltage power

11· ·line -- I can't say I experienced it -- is you get an

12· ·induced current, an induced electrical current on that.

13· · · · · · Has anybody ever walked up to a fence

14· ·installed near a power line and been hit?· Nobody's

15· ·done that?· Oh, okay.· Maybe I was the only one dumb

16· ·enough to do it.· But you can get shocked because of

17· ·that induced AC current on a piece of steel under a

18· ·power line.· And it can accelerate corrosion if you

19· ·don't think about it and plan for it.

20· · · · · · So what we do is we install a device called an

21· · AC mitigation device.· Periodically we measure the

22· ·levels of impact of that induced current on the line,

23· ·and we put a device that actually bleeds off that

24· ·current at periodic spacing.· It's based on how much

25· ·that comes in.





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·1· · · · · · So there are ways to approach it.· I can't

·2· ·speak for what Sago plants do, but I can tell you how

·3· ·we're going to do with it so it's not an issue.

·4· · · · · · MS. BONITATIBUS:· That's interesting.· All

·5· ·right.· So the other big one is you talked about the

·6· ·damage, if one of these pipelines gets damaged.· We get

·7· ·lots of calls every day, and one of the main calls that

·8· ·we're getting is if the pipeline is opened up to

·9· ·four-wheelers and illegal hunting.· That's a big

10· ·problem.

11· · · · · · Last night we heard that even four-wheelers in

12· ·the coastal plain can damage these pipelines.· That's

13· ·going to be scary.· We have really heavy equipment.

14· ·The property owners are responsible for the cost of

15· ·crossing those pipelines.· So if you have timber that

16· ·you need to get to, you're going to have to pay to put

17· ·the padding in to cover.

18· · · · · · And if that logging company does mess up that

19· ·line, who's going to pay to fix that?· Who's going to

20· ·pay for all the cleanup?· Is that going to be the

21· ·landowner who's going to be responsible if one piece of

22· ·equipment breaks the line?

23· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Did everybody catch that

24· ·question?· That was actually several statements in

25· ·that.· Heavy equipment crosses pipelines all the time.





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·1· ·It's a routine practice.· Pipeline operators know how

·2· ·to deal with it.· Heavy equipment operators know how to

·3· ·deal with it.

·4· · · · · · And what typically happens is a heavy

·5· ·equipment operator would say I have a logging operation

·6· ·or I have a very heavy load to drive across your

·7· ·pipeline, and they would call the local pipeline

·8· ·right-of-way technician.· He's the guy that drives up

·9· ·and down the pipeline all the time in his truck.

10· · · · · · And he'll say can you tell me what your load

11· ·is, can you tell me what your tire configuration is,

12· ·and can you tell me how much axles you have because my

13· ·engineers want to know that.· And that goes into some

14· ·calculations that determine what's the actual loading

15· ·that's being put on the soil over the pipeline.

16· · · · · · And if necessary we will work with that person

17· ·that wants to cross the pipeline and say, okay, in

18· ·order for you to bring that type load across you need

19· ·to, and usually it's either place additional dirt like

20· ·a mound over the line to track it across or mats

21· ·across, and that's the typical way pipelines are

22· ·crossed.

23· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· How many feet of fill above the

24· ·crown of the pipe?

25· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· I'm sorry, sir.· I simply





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·1· · · · · · So if you're really going to do that, we're

·2· ·going to need it on the Savannah River, we're going to

·3· ·need it on Brier Creek, we're going to need it on every

·4· ·creek you go under and every wetland as well because

·5· ·these water resources are too important especially in

·6· ·here.

·7· · · · · · You've heard there's streams that come out

·8· ·everywhere.· The slightest little bit not only is going

·9· ·to put somebody at risk, it's going to put their

10· ·property at risk and it's just too much.· So I think

11· ·there needs to be a significant amount of trenching

12· ·done if this project that moves forward.

13· · · · · · And then the last thing I did bring to you is

14· ·yesterday there was a lot of conversation about

15· ·co-locating of existing lines and there was questions

16· ·about where those existing lines are.· So we had our

17· ·GIS guy draw up a map.· So here you go.· This is where

18· ·all the natural gas lines are in Georgia.

19· · · · · · (Handing document.)

20· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Thank you.· Yeah, we own a

21· ·number of these.· That is helpful.· Actually, what you

22· ·just heard about trenching we plan to do something that

23· ·is called trenchless installation on the rivers.

24· · · · · · And some of you may have heard of a technology

25· ·called horizontal directional drilling.· And what we do





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·1· ·on that one is we have found that it is much less

·2· ·invasive to cross a river rather than the old-fashioned

·3· ·way where you would just trench across the banks

·4· ·through the river and up the other side and keep going.

·5· · · · · · We found a much better way to do it is drill

·6· ·underneath the river, and we use a drill rig that's

·7· ·angled into the ground and it actually is drilled with

·8· ·a steerable drill bit and it arcs underneath the river

·9· ·and comes out on the far side.· Much, much less impact.

10· ·So that's how we intend to cross rivers and major

11· ·waterways.

12· · · · · · MR. FORE:· Let me add on to that.· So we

13· ·intend to, but at the end of the day it's the Corps of

14· ·Engineers and the regulators that will approve or

15· ·disapprove of the proposed crossing method that we

16· ·have.

17· · · · · · So it's not us just simply going in and doing

18· ·it.· We have to get approval of the regulators who have

19· ·oversight of wetlands and water bodies and all that

20· ·before we can do anything.

21· · · · · · MR. CHALLY:· Okay.· I saw a couple more hands.

22· ·Yes, ma'am.

23· · · · · · MS. JOHNSON:· How far away does the residence

24· ·have to be from the pipeline?· Do you have it ready now

25· ·where you want or do you have so many feet to be away





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·1· ·from me?

·2· · · · · · MR. CHALLY:· Ma'am, can you give us your name

·3· ·just so we have it.

·4· · · · · · MS. JOHNSON:· Rose Johnson

·5· · · · · · MR. CHALLY:· Thank you.

·6· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· All right.· The question if

·7· ·y'all could not hear the question was how far away from

·8· ·the pipeline should a resident or must a resident be.

·9· ·Is that accurate?

10· · · · · · MS. JOHNSON:· Yes.· I said do you have to go

11· ·directly through our yard and we're here now and some

12· ·pipeline is going through our the yard or do you have

13· ·to be a certain distance from it?

14· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Okay.· And the answer is

15· ·unfortunately there's not a rule that says that.

16· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· What's your standard practice?

17· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· That's a good question.· And

18· ·our standard practice is we don't want to locate right

19· ·up against someone's house.· And if you look at the

20· ·preliminary route -- and by the way, I have some aerial

21· ·photos of the preliminary route we're looking at.· And

22· ·if any of you would like to stay around afterwards and

23· ·we'll flip through those and find the properties you

24· ·might be concerned with.

25· · · · · · One thing that will show you is there are a





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·1· ·number of places where you will see our preliminary

·2· ·route laid out.· And in order to avoid residences,

·3· ·we'll cross to the other side of in this case the

·4· ·Georgia Power easement to get away from houses.

·5· · · · · · MS. JOHNSON:· I hope you get away from mine

·6· ·because I'm right down there by the Georgia pipeline

·7· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Yes, ma'am.

·8· · · · · · MR. CHALLY:· Okay.· Yes, sir.

·9· · · · · · MR. MORRIS:· I'm Bill Morris from Augusta.

10· ·Our family is on the way to Millhaven Plantations and

11· ·Screven and Burke County south of here.· As best we can

12· ·figure, there's going to be about 11 miles across our

13· ·property.

14· · · · · · Our question is really twofold.· First of all,

15· ·why can't I and why don't you use more of the existing

16· ·pipelines that are already in place, both yours and

17· ·Georgia Power and others.· We have a Georgia Power line

18· ·across our property now.

19· · · · · · So the question is why can't the utility

20· ·companies work together so as not to take more land and

21· ·condemn it forever but to work either through

22· ·government or your own efforts with Georgia Power to

23· ·use their line?

24· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· All right.· So that first

25· ·question was why can't the pipeline companies actually





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·1· ·share an easement with other utility companies.

·2· · · · · · That is a wonderful question.· I wish we could

·3· ·do it, but we're two separate companies and we can't

·4· ·seem to get Georgia Power to share with us.· I've seen

·5· ·it work.· Has anybody ever flown into Houston Bush

·6· ·Intercontinental Airport?· Nobody?

·7· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· I have.

·8· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Okay.· When you drive south out

·9· ·of the airport and you get ready to turn on Kennedy

10· ·Drive coming out of the airport and you get ready to

11· ·get on the Beltway 8, you pass a utility corridor.· And

12· ·this is a wonderful place where somebody actually

13· ·thought how to plan it.

14· · · · · · And there are about three sets of high tension

15· ·power line poles and there are probably a dozen

16· ·pipeline markers on that corner.· And some folks

17· ·actually thought about it and they made everybody work

18· ·together and play together.· I don't understand why we

19· ·can't do it in other places, but I would love for us to

20· ·be able to.

21· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· It would be a lot cheaper for

22· ·y'all.

23· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Well, that's not the only

24· ·reason we like the idea.· This gentleman said it would

25· ·be a lot cheaper and he's right, but there would be





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·1· ·other good reasons --

·2· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· Oh, yeah, but that's another

·3· ·thing.

·4· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· If we can get there.· That

·5· ·might be something good to talk to your legislatures

·6· ·about.

·7· · · · · · MR. MORRIS:· My second part of my question is

·8· ·where you take land out of production, forest land in

·9· ·perpetuity, is your payment schedule to the landowner

10· ·such that they recognize in perpetuity the loss of that

11· ·land for productive purposes?

12· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· And that question was do we

13· ·recognize the value of that land and the loss of being

14· ·able to raise timber crop in perpetuity.· And the

15· ·answer there is yes, we do recognize that.

16· · · · · · With timber we recognize that with that

17· ·permanent 50-foot easement you can no longer grow trees

18· ·on it.· There are a number of other crops that you

19· ·can't continue to grow on a pipeline easement.· Trees

20· ·are not one of them.

21· · · · · · MR. CHALLY:· There were a couple more hands.

22· ·Yes, sir.

23· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· Who's going to own the pipeline

24· ·when y'all get through with it?

25· · · · · · MR. CHALLY:· Who owns the pipeline?· What was





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·1· ·your name, sir?

·2· · · · · · (Not audible.)

·3· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· The question was who will --

·4· ·excuse me.

·5· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· The material.

·6· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· The material.· Oh, that's a

·7· ·great question.

·8· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· You can't do it if it's out of

·9· ·town.

10· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Well, here's what we intend to

11· ·do.· We're going to build this by itself.· It's going

12· ·to be built out of high-strength steel.· And my

13· ·intention is to buy --

14· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· What grade?

15· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· What grade?

16· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· Yeah, what grade?

17· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· I will talk as long as you want

18· ·to tonight on that.· What I'm looking at right now is

19· ·probably going to be a grade called X60.· Normal

20· ·structural steel like this stuff here that's passing

21· ·together the beams and all (indicating), that's called

22· ·a grade A36.· It has a yield strength of about 36,000

23· ·PSI.

24· · · · · · We're going to build a pipe out of something

25· ·that has yield strength of probably either 60,000 PSI





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·1· ·or maybe higher.· We're working through the map there.

·2· ·We intend to buy that steel and have that pipe made in

·3· ·North America.

·4· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· Will you guarantee that?

·5· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· I'm sorry?

·6· · · · · · THE AUDIENCE:· You intend or you will?

·7· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· I say intend because I've got

·8· ·to work with some procurement guys too.· I can't always

·9· ·control them.

10· · · · · · The other thing I intend to do is buy pumps

11· ·that are made here in the U.S.· And I'm going to say

12· ·mostly, and the reason for that is you will find that

13· ·when you start buying things for pipelines that are

14· ·made out of cast steel, most of it has gone offshore

15· ·now.

16· · · · · · So even if we buy a pump from an American

17· ·vender, which we are going to do, those castings may

18· ·have come from China or Mexico or India.· Now, that

19· ·presents another issue.· So that's where those things

20· ·come from.· I'm sorry, that's just what happened when

21· ·we killed the steel industry.

22· · · · · · MR. CHALLY:· Okay.· Yes, ma'am.· We have one

23· ·or two more questions.

24· · · · · · MS. BODDIFORD:· I'm Debo Boddiford from

25· ·Sylvania, Georgia.· I was at the meeting last night and





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·1· ·my husband had me ask some questions about farming and

·2· ·logging.

·3· · · · · · Our family owns a good bit of timber land

·4· ·that's involved along the Savannah River.· Because of

·5· ·the route of this proposed pipeline, it's going to

·6· ·landlock our timber, much of our timber between the

·7· ·pipeline and the river.· We cannot take it across the

·8· ·river so we're going to have to come over your

·9· ·pipeline.

10· · · · · · For timber owners who are in that situation,

11· ·can we have a permanent road, I mean a permanent

12· ·passover just like you would a county road or a state

13· ·highway.· Can we have that put because we are going to

14· ·use it for maintenance or road building, for any future

15· ·logging or anything we do we're going to have to --

16· ·every time we want to go on our property we don't need

17· ·to have to call a pipeline manager and wait for five

18· ·days for them to come.

19· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Okay.· Did y'all hear that

20· ·question?· If you have a permanent access road, can you

21· ·cross the pipeline.· And what I would suggest is that

22· ·is a really good topic at the time of easement

23· ·negotiations because we have done that for you.

24· · · · · · MS. BODDIFORD:· Okay.· My husband is in the

25· ·farming industry.· We also have a lot of loggers in our





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·1· ·family.· If my husband is in another farmer's field and

·2· ·he damages the pipeline or if a farmer himself damages

·3· ·the pipeline because it has been told that you can farm

·4· ·over pipelines, who pays for the liability and the

·5· ·cleanup if it's damaged?

·6· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Okay.· Did y'all hear that?

·7· · And that's a good question, and the answer there is it

·8· ·depends on the activity that's going on because in

·9· ·Georgia we do have a one-call law.

10· · · · · · If someone is digging around a utility, they

11· ·do have to make a one call in and meet with the various

12· ·utilities, not just pipelines but everybody that can be

13· ·affected.· And it depends on different parts of the

14· ·state, but it may be quarter sectioning.

15· · · · · · MS. BODDIFORD:· Okay.· So are you saying that

16· ·if a farmer has given permission to farm over and

17· ·Mr. Morris himself has cleared a lot of land underneath

18· ·those power lines that potentially will be going over

19· ·these gasoline pipelines, when his men go to deep plow

20· ·those fields is he going to have to call every day or

21· ·does he get a permit per month, per year?· How does

22· ·that work?

23· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Well, and I can't answer as to

24· ·the frequency of that permit, but the activity that

25· ·goes on if we were doing deep plowing like subsoiling





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·1· ·and such, that activity is something that really needs

·2· ·to be discussed with our pipeline folks, our

·3· ·maintenance guys because we want to identify the depth

·4· ·of the pipeline through that area.

·5· · · · · · Nobody wants to hit a pipeline, not the

·6· ·farmer, not the person doing the work, not the pipeline

·7· ·owners.· So the communication is the key to make sure

·8· ·that we don't wind up damaging lines.· We operate a lot

·9· ·of pipelines all through the midwestern U.S.· Farmers

10· ·farm on top of those lines routinely.

11· · · · · · MS. BODDIFORD:· Right.· And I understand that,

12· ·but it's flat in the midwest.· And in Screven and Burke

13· ·County including Mr. Morris' land you've got roving

14· ·hills.· We farm the land the way the land is, you know,

15· ·where you all asked in your information online for

16· ·vehicles, even anything over 15,000 pounds which is

17· ·not -- that's a small tractor or pickup.

18· · · · · · Anything bigger than that you want to cross at

19· ·a 90-degree angle, but you can't always put your

20· ·farming equipment and your grain trucks and log trucks

21· ·and everything in a 90-degree angle.· Life just doesn't

22· ·work out that way.

23· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Sure.· We recognize that.· And

24· ·again there are pipelines under operating farms today

25· ·in different parts of the country, and I cite the





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·1· ·midwest that that experience is working a good bit up

·2· ·there.· I've seen a lot of it.

·3· · · · · · There are other parts of the country that are

·4· ·rolling terrain and some even fairly steep terrain that

·5· ·people operate farms on.

·6· · · · · · MS. BODDIFORD:· So if you have a farming

·7· ·operation or a logging operation it has liability -- my

·8· ·husband is real concerned about liability -- and you

·9· ·won't come out and you all approve a crossover whether

10· ·it's for a logging operation or farming operation and

11· ·there is still some damage to the pipeline, in other

12· ·words, when you all approved that crossover, as long as

13· ·the equipment and trucks cross over where they're

14· ·supposed to, then does that release the farmer or

15· ·logger or the landowner from liability?· I mean since

16· ·you all approved it, you all stand by it.

17· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· We stand by it but what we

18· ·would do is mutually execute what's called a crossing

19· ·agreement, and that's a document that's a recordable

20· ·document.

21· · · · · · MS. BODDIFORD:· Is that something that has to

22· ·be negotiated by the month or is that something that

23· ·can be negotiated from now to kingdom come?

24· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· The latter.

25· · · · · · MS. BODDIFORD:· All right.· I have some other





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·1· ·questions too.

·2· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· If you'd like, you're welcome

·3· ·to stay as late as you want.

·4· · · · · · MS. BODDIFORD:· I just wanted all the farmers

·5· ·and loggers -- my husband is concerned, our family is

·6· ·concerned.· I just wanted everybody here to be aware.

·7· ·I would like for you all -- I thought you did a

·8· ·wonderful job last night explaining.

·9· · · · · · I asked how many permanent jobs would be

10· ·located in Screven County.· Now I'm asking for Burke

11· ·County tonight in the area and I wanted to know where

12· ·these jobs are located.· I appreciate your telling us

13· ·the truth last night even though I didn't necessarily

14· ·like what I heard.

15· · · · · · Also, my husband wanted to know what are the

16· ·names of these commercial industries that you all are

17· ·partnering with that want to put this oil through the

18· ·gas pipeline.· If we're giving up our property and

19· ·we're going to pay taxes on it, I would like to know

20· ·who I'm dealing with.

21· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Okay.· Well, the pipeline will

22· ·be built and owned and operated by Palmetto Pipeline,

23· ·LLC.· And like Allen mentioned, we're building an asset

24· ·that functions just like a toll road or a railroad.· If

25· ·you don't own what goes across that or along that road





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·1· ·or river, you charge a fee for people to use that

·2· ·service.

·3· · · · · · Allen and I both mentioned that we have

·4· ·commercial backing already sufficient to proceed with

·5· ·the project.· And part of obtaining that backing we go

·6· ·out to this open season.· And when our customers sign

·7· ·up for that open season and commit to us, there is a

·8· ·clause in those agreements.· That's a confidentiality

·9· ·clause.

10· · · · · · They can tell you how much they signed up, but

11· ·I can't tell you how much they signed up for.· And then

12· ·also, that's also covered up under some aspects of the

13· ·Federal Energy Regulatory Commission and Interstate

14· ·Commerce Act that protects that confidentiality from a

15· ·pipeline standpoint.· Having said that --

16· · · · · · MS. BODDIFORD:· Wait, wait.· Don't go nowhere.

17· ·So what you're telling us is that you can't tell us who

18· ·you're in business with.· So if you're in business with

19· ·BP, Texaco, Shell, whoever, you can't tell us.· Is that

20· ·what you're saying?

21· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Ma'am, what I'm saying is I

22· ·can't tell you how many different customers ship

23· ·through our pipeline and where it's going.

24· · · · · · MS. BODDIFORD:· You're avoiding the answer.

25· ·You're not giving us a direct answer.· Can you tell us





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·1· ·who your customer is, yes or no?· And if yes, who are

·2· ·they?· Who's your customers?

·3· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Okay.

·4· · · · · · MS. BODDIFORD:· Confidentiality can mean a

·5· ·whole lot of things.· Who's your customer, yes or no?

·6· · And if you can say yes, who are they because BP,

·7· ·remember the Atlantic Ocean, you know, that had a

·8· ·spill.· Well, they put it off to this company, that

·9· ·company and this company.· We want to know who is your

10· ·customer.

11· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Actually, BP was in the Gulf of

12· ·Mexico.· And what I'd recommend is if you want to know

13· ·who is tied into these pipelines, take a look at the

14· ·terminal communities that already exist.· Read the --

15· · · · · · MS. BODDIFORD:· You're not answering the

16· ·question, sir.

17· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· Ma'am, I am sorry.· I cannot

18· ·tell you what customers have signed up.

19· · · · · · MS. BODDIFORD:· So that's the answer, you

20· ·can't tell us.

21· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· I cannot tell you.· They can

22· ·tell you.

23· · · · · · (Audience inaudible.)

24· · · · · · MR. WILLIAMS:· What I said was if you're

25· ·interested to know what customers are already signed





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·1· ·up, take a look at the existing terminal communities.

·2· ·That's an easy one.

·3· · · · · · MS. BODDIFORD:· I'll let you explain about the

·4· ·jobs in a minute.· I've got one more question.· You

·5· ·said and it was in the Savannah paper and you told us

·6· ·last night that the proposed Richmond Hill pumping

·7· ·station is landlocked, so you can't go through

Transcript of Statements - Waynesboro

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Transcript of Transcript of Statements - Waynesboro