TRANSCRIPT: 6th Public Hearing of the Senate Blue Ribbon Committee on the $81-M Money Laundering...

8/18/2019 TRANSCRIPT: 6th Public Hearing of the Senate Blue Ribbon Committee on the $81-M Money Laundering Case

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Republic of the PhilippinesCONGRESS OF THE PHILIPPINES

SENATEPasay City

COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OFPUBLIC OFFICERS AND INVESTIGATIONS

(BLUE RIBBON)

DATE : Tuesday, April 19, 2016

TIME : 10:30 a.m.

VENUE : Session Hall2nd Floor, Senate of the PhilippinesFinancial Center, Roxas BoulevardPasay City

AGENDA : INVESTIGATION INTO THE ALLEGED US$100MILLION THAT WAS LAUNDERED IN THEPHILIPPINES

ATTENDANCE

SENATORS:

HON. TEOFISTO L. GUINGONA III - ChairmanHON. JUAN PONCE ENRILE - Minority Floor LeaderHON. SERGIO R. OSMEÑA IIIHON. PAOLO BENIGNO “BAM” AQUINO IV

GUESTS/RESOURCE PERSONS:

Atty. Marissa O. Cabreros - Assistant Commissioner for Legal

Service, Bureau of InternalRevenue (BIR)

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COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS AND INVESTIGATIONS(BLUE RIBBON)Tuesday, April 19, 2016Page 2

Mr. Nestor A. Espenilla Jr. - Deputy Governor, Bangko Sentral

ng Pilipinas (BSP)Mr. Manuel Huberto B. Gaite - Commissioner, Securities and

Exchange Commission (SEC)Atty. Emmanuel F. Dooc - Commissioner, Insurance

Commission (IC)Ms. Julia C. Bacay-Abad - Executive Director, Anti-Money

Laundering Council (AMLC) SecretariatMr. Eugene Manalastas - Chief Operating Officer, Philippine

Amusement and GamingCorporation (PAGCOR)

Mr. Raymundo C. De Guzman - PAGCOR Representative for MidasHotel and Casino

Mr. Lorenzo V. Tan - President and Chief ExecutiveOfficer, Rizal Commercial BankingCorporation (RCBC)

Mr. Raul Victor B. Tan - Executive Vice President/TreasuryGroup Head, RCBC

Atty. Ma. Celia Fernandez-Estavillo- Head, Legal and Regulatory AffairsGroup, RCBC

Ms. Maia Santos Deguito - Former Branch Manager, RCBC-Jupiter

BranchMs. Angela Ruth S. Torres - Former Customer Relations Officer,RCBC-Jupiter Branch

Mr. Dennis Bancod - Operations Head, RCBCAtty. Alvin Go - Head and Chief Legal Counsel, BDO

Unibank, Inc.Ms. Alice Z. Cordero - 1st Senior Vice President, Global

Compliance Group, Philippine NationalBank (PNB)

Ms. Bernadette Ratcliffe - Chief Compliance Officer, EastWest

Banking CorporationAtty. Benedicto M. Valerio - Corporate Secretary, EastWest BankingCorporation

Mr. Lauren Anthony Escobar - Business Sales Officer, GrepalifeFinancial, Inc.

Ms. Salud Bautista - President, Philrem ServiceCorporation

Mr. Michael Bautista - Philrem Service CorporationMr. Mark Palmares - Messenger, Philrem Service

CorporationMs. Katherine Aquino - Truth Verifier Systems, Inc.Mr. Renato E. De Jesus - Public NotaryMr. Kam Sin Wong a.k.a. Kim Wong - Eastern Hawaii Leisure Company Ltd.

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Atty. Silverio Benny J. Tan - Corporate Secretary, Solaire Resort

and Casino ManilaAtty. Katrina L. Nepomuceno - General Counsel, Leisure and

Resorts World Corporation (LRWC)Mr. Adrian Au - Vice President, Finance and

Treasurer, City of Dreams CasinoMr. Jomini Nazareno - Melco Crown PhilippinesHon. John Gomes - Ambassador, People’s Republic of

BangladeshMr. Zakir Hossain - Deputy General Manager, Accounts

and Budgeting Department,

Bangladesh BankMr. Abdur Rab - Joint Director, Bangladesh Financial

Intelligence Unit (BFIU),Bangladesh Bank

Atty. Eduardo Escaño - Goldmoon Junket Solaire Resort

SENATORS’ STAFF:

Atty. Nicholai Noel B. Lazaro - O/S Guingona

Ms. Judith Lee - O/S GuingonaG.H. Ambat - O/S GuingonaMs. Khristine Joy E. Pulumbarit - O/S GuingonaMr. George A. Dolocanog - O/S GuingonaAtty. Dante Xenon B. Atienza - O/S GuingonaMs. Giselle Anne B. Campos - O/S GuingonaMr. Reynold Evangelista - O/S GuingonaMr. Ronyll Mendoza - O/S EnrileMr. Julius Gumibao - O/S EnrileMr. Virgilio Terre - O/S Enrile

Atty. Valerie A. Joy Brion - O/S PimentelAtty. Patricia Rebaño - O/S PimentelMr. Ryan Martin Macalatan - O/S PimentelMr. Doni Capuyan - O/S OsmeñaMs. Kathreena D. Tan - O/S OsmeñaMs. Joan Dairo-Revoltar - O/S OsmeñaMr. Ricardo Calimag - O/S BinayMs. Ma. Clarissa Lopez - O/S BinayMs. Cecile Palines - O/S Aquino

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SENATE SECRETARIAT:

Atty. Rodolfo Noel S. Quimbo - Director General, Blue RibbonOversight Office Management(BROOM)

Atty. Agapito Rene S. Conchu - Director III, Assessment andMonitoring Service, BROOM

Atty. Sarah Lou Y. Arriola - Director III, Investigation Service,BROOM

Ms. Susan M. Chua - Director II, Assessment andMonitoring Service, BROOM

Atty. Fritzie Jane A. Aduna - Staff, BROOMMs. Divina Gracia V. Ramos - - do –Mr. Reonardo Ramirez Jr. - - do –Ms. Joyce Ramos - - do –Ms. Merlene J. Palaganas - Committee StenographerMr. Guillermo E. Sapinoso Jr. - - do –Ms. Jennifer L. Flores - - do –Ms. Rosemarie J. Ortiz - - do –Ms. Cindell B. Gealan - - do –Ms. Helen S. Gayapa - - do –

Ms. Maribel P. Mendoza - - do –Ms. Anna Leah C. Catimbang - - do –Ms. Nida A. Mancol - - do –Mr. Rommel P. Alger - - do –Ms. Jo B. Cadaing - - do –Ms. Sherill M. Villadiego - - do –Ms. Marivic H. Ulep - - do –Ms. Cleofe P. Caturla - - do –Ms. Jocelyn A. Dela Cruz - - do –Ms. Cecilia T. Sotto - - do –

Ms. Christine M. Nery - - do –Ms. Araceli D. Masicap - - do –Ms. Carolina F. Driz - - do –Ms. Maybelle H. Balagne - - do –Ms. Susana Grace L. Robles - - do –Ms. Rosalinda J. Catadman - - do –Ms. Ma. Emperatriz L. Novero - - do –Ms. Cristina D.C. Astrero - - do –Mr. Ronnie Cabañero - Legislative PageMr. Menardo Bago - - do –Mr. Emerson Carreon - - do –Mr. Reginald Mendoza - - do –Ms. Abigael Olson - - do –

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Ms. Laarni Vidal - - do –

Ms. Gina R. Tolentino - - do –Ms. Rechilda Gascon - Director III, Senate Tax Studies

and Research Office (STSRO)Mr. Norberto Villanueva - Director II, STSROMr. Clinton S. Martinez - Supervising Legislative Staff

Officer II, STSRO

(For complete list, please see attached Attendance Sheet.)

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COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS ANDINVESTIGATIONS (BLUE RIBBON)MJPalaganas I-1 April 19, 2016 11:18 a.m. 1

AT 11:18 A.M., HON. TEOFISTO L. GUINGONA III,CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE, CALLED THE HEARINGTO ORDER.

THE CHAIRMAN. The hearing of the Senate Blue Ribbon

Committee is hereby called to order.

Good morning, everyone.

Before anything else, I would like to acknowledge the senators

who are present at this moment in the plenary hall.

I would like to acknowledge the presence of Senator Juan Ponce

Enrile, the Minority Floor Leader—good morning, sir.

Let us then acknowledge the resource persons who are here:

For the Bureau of Internal Revenue, we have Atty. Marissa Cabreros,

assistant commissioner for Legal Service, BIR—good morning, ma’am.

For the Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas, we have Deputy Governor

Nestor Espenilla Jr.—good morning, sir.

For the AMLC, the Commission proper, the Insurance

Commission, Atty. Emmanuel F. Dooc.

MR. DOOC. [Off-mike] Good morning.

THE CHAIRMAN. Good morning, sir.

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The executive director of the Anti-Money Laundering Council, Ms.

Julia Bacay-Abad—Where are you? Oh, there you are, right in front of

me. Okay. Good morning, ma’am.

Pagcor represented by Mr. Eugene Manalastas.

MR. MANALASTAS. Good morning, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Good morning.

Pagcor representative for Midas, Mr. Raymundo De Guzman—

yes, good morning.

For RCBC, we have president—Mr. Lorenzo Tan—good morning,

sir.

And the EVP, the head of the treasury group, Mr. Raul Victor B.

Tan—good morning, sir.

Of course, Atty. Maria Celia Estavillo—good morning, ma’am.

MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Good morning, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Mr. Reymart Marbella, Mr. Romualdo

Agarrado, and Ms. Pinky Macaalay—good morning.

You’re here? Okay, thank you.

PNB represented by Ms. Alice Cordero—good morning, ma’am.

BDO represented by Atty. Alvin Go—good morning, sir.

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EastWest represented by Atty. Benedicto Valerio and Ms.

Bernadette Ratcliffe—good morning. Yes, there you are.

Okay. Philrem, Mr. and Mrs. Salud Bautista.

Mr. Concon Bautista, are you feeling better?

Mark Palmares, are you here?—okay.

Solaire represented by Atty. Benny Tan—good morning.

Goldmoon Junket Solaire Resort, Atty. Eduardo Escaño—yes,

good morning.

Melco Crown Philippines, Atty. Katrina L. Nepomuceno.

MS. NEPOMUCENO. Your Honor, I am representing Midas

Hotel and Casino.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay, Midas din. Thank you.

Melco Crown Philippines, Adrian Au and Jomini Nazareno—

Attorney, good morning.

MR. NAZARENO. Good morning, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Good morning.

Maia Santos Deguito—good morning, ma’am.

Angela Torres—good morning.

Mr. Lauren Anthony Escobar—good morning.

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And the representative of the Truth Verifier System, Inc., Ms.

Katherine Aquino—good morning, ma’am.

We also have Atty. Renato E. De Jesus.

Okay, one administrative—

Yes, good morning, sir.

Yes, administrative matter before we proceed.

All those who are here as resource persons and who have not yet

taken their oath, please stand. The Director General is—

Before that, we would like to recognize the presence of Senator

Bam Aquino—good morning, sir.

SEN. AQUINO. Good morning, Mr. Chairman.

THE CHAIRMAN. Thank you.

THE DIRECTOR GENERAL. To those who are here for the

first time, could you please stand and raise your right hand? Those

who are here for the first time, raise your right hand.

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and

nothing but the truth in this proceeding?

Kindly nod to say “yes.”

Thank you. You may take your seats.

[The following resource persons took their oath and replied in theaffirmative: Ms. Aquino, Mr. Palmares, and Mr. De Jesus.]

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We also see Mr. Gaite has arrived, representing the Securities

and Exchange. Yes, good morning, sir.

Okay. Before we proceed to the heart of the matter which is the

Philrem group, the group that was tasked to make the report of the

junket operator. What group was that—there are two groups, right?

Goldmoon—am I correct? And the other is—

MR. ESCAÑO. Your Honor, for Goldmoon, we have already

submitted our report.

THE CHAIRMAN. Yes, yes. The other one.

MR. ESCAÑO. The other one is from Suncity.

THE CHAIRMAN. Suncity, are you here?

MR. S. TAN. He is not around yet, Your Honor. But I

understand they will be submitting a report today.

THE CHAIRMAN. Yes. They said they would submit it within

one week.

MR. S. TAN. Yes, Your Honor.

THE CHAIRMAN. Will he be coming over? Is he just late or will

he not be coming?

MR. S. TAN. I understand they will be coming over, Your

Honor.

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THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.

RCBC, in page—you undertook to submit copies of your empty

999s.

MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Your Honor, we have submitted

them together with everything actually that we submitted to AMLC.

They are all in the file.

THE CHAIRMAN. To AMLC.

MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Which were submitted to the

Senate, Your Honor, as I understood.

THE CHAIRMAN. By AMLC?

MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. Yes, sir.

But I understood that all the records pertaining to all the four

accounts were there.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Thank you. But let us just confirm.

Ms. Abad, has it been submitted to the Blue Ribbon?

MS. ABAD. I understand there were documents that have

been submitted by RCBC to the AMLC. But I am not sure if this is the

same documents that the honorable Senator is referring to.

THE CHAIRMAN. Maybe can we just have a copy of everything

that you submitted to AMLC?

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MS. FERNANDEZ-ESTAVILLO. All right, Your Honor.


And for the BSP, in the last hearing, Governor Espenilla, in the

discussion about the penalties of the banks in relation to the charter of

the Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas, we were talking about a 30,000 per

transaction or 30,000 per day penalty, if you remember correctly?

MR. ESPENILLA. That is correct, Mr. Chairman.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. And you did commit that you would

make some submissions with regard to some changes that you wish—

not only for the Bangko Sentral charter but also for the Anti-Money

Laundering.

MR. ESPENILLA. Mr. Chairman, on that point, for the BSP,

we have prepared recommendations for consideration of the Monetary

Board and the Anti-Money Laundering Council, Mr. Chairman. We are

just completing our internal process but we’ll be able to offer those

recommendations, Mr. Chairman, as early as next week to the Anti-

Money Laundering Council…/mjp

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COMMITTEE ON ACCOUNTABILITY OF PUBLIC OFFICERS AND

INVESTIGATIONS (BLUE RIBBON)

GESapinoso II-1 April 19, 2016 11:28 a.m. 1

MR. ESPENILLA. …to the Anti-Money Laundering Council.

THE CHAIRMAN. Next week?

MR. ESPENILLA. No, Mr. Chairman, because—

THE CHAIRMAN. We won’t hold you to that deadline but more

or less indicative.

MR. ESPENILLA. No, Mr. Chairman, what we will do is after the

Monetary Board has cleared our recommendations, it will be submitted

to the Anti-Money Laundering Council for its consideration as part of

the set of amendments to be recommended for consideration of

Congress.

THE CHAIRMAN. I see, you make it pass through the Monetary

Board first.

MR. ESPENILLA. Yes, Mr. Chairman.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.

Senator Enrile.

SEN. ENRILE. I was not here the last hearing. What is this

30,000?

THE CHAIRMAN. Governor Espenilla, could you please

elaborate?


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The BSP was queried as to what are the limits in terms of the

monetary penalties that the BSP may impose. I clarified, Mr.

Chairman, that under the existing BSP charter, we are limited by law

to impose a maximum of ₱30,000 per day per violation, Mr. Chairman.

SEN. ENRILE. What is the basis of the imposition of this

maximum penalty? That is the upper part of the range of penalty that

you can exact. What led you to go to that limit, to the upper limit?

MR. ESPENILLA. No, Mr. Chairman, I was just answering what

is the limit—

SEN. ENRILE. No, I am asking you, you are a part of policy-

making and you are suggesting a policy that you will have to exact the

maximum penalty, and the question that enters immediately to my

mind, what caused that?

MR. ESPENILLA. Mr. Chairman, we suggested that there

should be some review of the upper limit because, for example, in the

situation at hand, in the money laundering case, for example—

SEN. ENRILE. Are you suggesting that the banking system has

become deteriorated to such an extent that you have to exact the

maximum penalties so that you can control the situation, or are you

suggesting that you have become so inefficient that you have to exact

the maximum penalty in order to make your efficiency higher?

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MR. ESPENILLA. No, Mr. Chairman, the amount of ₱30,000 per

day in comparison to the size of the transaction is actually very small.

And the context of that discussion, Mr. Chairman, was that one of the

senators cited the large amounts of penalties that are actually being

imposed in other jurisdictions. I was just responding to that, Mr.

Chairman.

SEN. ENRILE. Very small, you said. But that is precisely the

range—that range was intended by the government to exact severity in

relation to exact situations, isn’t it? That is the purpose of that, from

zero to 30,000. That gradation is based on the severity of the

situation according to the perception of the regulator. And I am asking

you now, since you have gone to the upper limit and probably want to

go beyond, is that a sign that your system has become uncontrollable

or that there is something wrong with your system?

MR. ESPENILLA. There is nothing wrong with the system, Mr.

Chairman, the penalty is meant—

SEN. ENRILE. Why are you increasing the penalties?

MR. ESPENILLA. It is meant for those who violate the rules,

Mr. Chairman.

SEN. ENRILE. Yeah, if you are efficient and you cannot control

the situation, you don’t have to impose a penalty because everybody

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will be complying. Then, if your efficiency becomes deteriorated you

increase it over zero until you reach the maximum range of 30,000,

that is the limit established by law, by the policy formulators. And that

is why I am asking what is the impelling reason for going beyond to

that upper limit and beyond…? Is that just an arbitrary decision or is it

based on a substantial cause?

MR. ESPENILLA. Mr. Chairman, the amount of penalty

prescribed by law is meant to be a deterrent and to promote

compliance with the law, Mr. Chairman.

SEN. ENRILE. Kaya nga eh, tinatanong ko, marami bang hindi

nagko-comply? Marami bang gumagawa ng kalokohan? Marami bang

hindi sumusunod? Dahil diyan ay ipinapataw ninyo iyong

pinakamabigat na parusa, ganoon ba? O ito ay kuwan lang, joke only,

like some candidates are saying the direct jokes only?

MR. ESPENILLA. No, Mr. Chairman, we recommend imposition

of the maximum penalty when the situation warrants—

SEN. ENRILE. Mr. Bangko Sentral, bakit nga ipinapataw ninyo

iyong maximum penalty? Bakit? What is the immediate, primary and

effective cause?

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MR. ESPENILLA. When the situation is grave, Mr. Chairman, in

such that there is a possible damage to the system or affecting the

institution.

SEN. ENRILE. Okay, so because of the situation. Are you

saying that the situation has become a little bit unwieldy that you have

now to impose a maximum penalty for violations?

MR. ESPENILLA. No, Mr. Chairman, we don’t think the system

is unwieldy but I think the situation warrants sanction to those who

have violated the law, Mr. Chairman.

SEN. ENRILE. The law is wise, you know, it established a range

from zero up to an upper limit depending upon the condition of the

system. And that is why I am asking you as an administrator whether

you have reached that upper limit that reflects the efficiency of the

system.

MR. ESPENILLA. Mr. Chairman, I think the context here is

₱30,000 compared to the asset sizes of the transactions is such small

amount, Mr. Chairman.

SEN. ENRILE. You are making excuses. I am asking for a

question because we are designing a policy.

THE CHAIRMAN. Perhaps, Governor, could you explain the

context?

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SEN. ENRILE. Why not reduce it? You cannot reduce it because

that will be illogical in relation to the situation, isn’t it?

MR. ESPENILLA. Yes, Mr. Chairman, we have to apply or the

Monetary Board has to take into consideration the context of a specific

situation in determining what amount of penalty to impose, Mr.

Chairman.

SEN. ENRILE. No, no, no. We are establishing a policy. What

you are suggesting is discretion based on your judgment. The law

must establish a rule, a guide. It is not yours but it’s Congress’

prerogative to do that.

MR. ESPENILLA. Mr. Chairman, there are implementing

regulations in terms of assessing imposable penalties—

SEN. ENRILE. We are not talking implementing regulations,

you are not lawmaking, we are the lawmakers and I am asking you, as

a matter of policy whether the situation demands that we increase the

penalties which shows that the situation has deteriorated or that your

efficiency has dwindled.

MR. ESPENILLA. Mr. Chairman, the situation demands higher

penalties. But I don’t think the situation has deteriorated.

SEN. ENRILE. Why do you increase the penalty if there is no

basis?

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MR. ESPENILLA. Well, Mr. Chairman—

SEN. ENRILE. I am asking for the basis of your

recommendation to increase the penalty. You cannot just do an

arbitrary decision for the people, it is not your decision, this is going to

affect the people.

MR. ESPENILLA. Mr. Chairman, if I may—

SEN. ENRILE. Ito ang masama sa atin, we are tending to

become a government of men, not a government of laws.

MR. ESPENILLA. Mr. Chairman, the basis for our belief that

monetary penalties can be increased is the increased threat of money

laundering activity… jun

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JLFLORES III-1 April 19, 2016 11:38 a.m. 1

MR. ESPENILLA. ...of money laundering activity to the

country.

SEN. ENRILE. Why not increase it to one million or 50,000 at

least?

MR. ESPENILLA. Mr. Chairman, we have recommendations. It

will be up to Congress to decide on that, Mr. Chairman.

SEN. ENRILE. Even if the amount involved is only 1,000, you

impose 30,000? Is that it?

MR. ESPENILLA. Mr. Chairman, our recommendation is based

on both amounts and also should be related to the size of the

transaction, Mr. Chairman.

SEN. ENRILE. And you determine the gravity based on your

notion of what is grave?

Mr. Chairman, I do not want to belabor this. This is not his

function. This is the function of Congress. Now, I only raised that

question because we start to learn that we cannot deal with policy in

this country on a whimsical basis. There must be a cause, a reason for

us to adopt a policy.

Thank you.


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Governor, when you make your recommendations, then make

sure about the basis for your recommendations.


THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. On Page 40, Midas—

Atty. Nepomuceno.

MS. NEPOMUCENO. Yes, Your Honor.

THE CHAIRMAN. Yes. In the past hearing, it was mentioned

that 550 million entered Midas and it was—nilaro doon sa junket, ano

po?


THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. And you still have to determine that

amount? You are still determining that amount?

MS. NEPOMUCENO. Actually, Your Honor, we are trying to

look at all the accounts that were played in the casino and we are

determining what is the portion of the ... playing account vis-à-vis the

entire report of the gross gaming revenue reported to the junket

agent, which is Prime Investment Korea Inc.

THE CHAIRMAN. Yes. But anyway, at any rate, you said that

in the last hearing, you will give the amount in 10 working days. Iyon

po. I am reading—I have the transcript.

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MS. NEPOMUCENO. Yes, Your Honor. Actually, we have a

ballpark figure of the amount. We are able to actually evaluate all the

records. We are still in the process of completing the records that we

will be submitting.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Okay. So, in 10 working days which

is—

MS. NEPOMUCENO. I can actually give you the ballpark figure,

Your Honor, today.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Now, let us just wait for your final

report, so we can—


THE CHAIRMAN. When will that be?

MS. NEPOMUCENO. That should be anytime this week, Your

Honor.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Very good then.

Mr. Manalastas, iyon nga ano, pinag-usapan iyong earnings ng

Pagcor doon sa gaming na iyon sa Midas. And in the last hearing,

Senator Recto said that that earnings is now part of Pagcor. Okay.

And you were asked if it is possible for you to bring it—to return it to

Bangladesh.

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My first question is—Ms. Abad, would it be proper for us to say

that the AMLC can pursue that if the earnings are from a junket

operator and these earnings become part of Pagcor—obviously, the

funds came from the $81 million—then, we can still pursue it. In this

case, the profits earned by Pagcor. Would that be proper?

MS. BACAY-ABAD. I believe so, Your Honor, that we can still

pursue the same as long as we can establish that everything came

from these stolen funds. However, I think it would have to go through

the process once the money or funds become part of the Pagcor’s

funds or it becomes public funds.

THE CHAIRMAN. Correct. So, it becomes public funds—

MS. BACAY-ABAD. So, before it can be disbursed, it has to be

appropriated, Your Honor.

THE CHAIRMAN. Correct.

MS. BACAY-ABAD. I think it has to go through that process.

THE CHAIRMAN. So, they also said—Pagcor also said since

they are under the Office of the President, they need the clearance

from the Office of the President. But again, like you said, which I also

agree, I think, that it is public money, therefore, you need an

appropriation for its release. But nevertheless, the point being that we

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are here to identify sources where we can return to the Bangladeshi

authorities.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

And I understand Mr. Kim Wong returned 200 million yesterday.

Am I correct?

MS. BACAY-ABAD. Yesterday, Your Honor, Eastern Hawaii

Leisure Company, through its lawyer, turned over the amount of P200

million to the AMLC for safekeeping to be returned to the People’s

Republic of Bangladesh.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Am I correct then that—

Mr. Kim Wong, ito ba iyong bahagi nung 450 na sinabi niyo po?

MR. WONG. Yes, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Ah, okay. Thank you.

MR. WONG. Kasi po, hindi ba, nangako po ako within a month

I have to return 450 million po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Okay. Yes.

And one last detail, Ms. Abad, when there is civil forfeiture

case—in this case, let us be very specific, the government of

Bangladesh has to intervene in the civil forfeiture case. Because if

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they do not intervene and say that it is their money, then the court will

declare it as the money of the republic. Am I correct?

MS. BACAY-ABAD. That is correct, Your Honor. Under the rule

on civil forfeiture, “Any party or person who has a claim on any

property being subject of forfeiture should file the appropriate petition

and intervention or a third party claim.” And they should present

evidence to the effect that the property legitimately belongs to them.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. So, okay then. Anyway, please—they

are here also, so they are listening. But please inform them later on,

make sure that they file an intervention.

Okay. We go to Philrem.

Mr. Palmares.

MR. PALMARES. Good morning, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Pakilapit lang.


THE CHAIRMAN. Magandang umaga.

Ayon sa affidavit mo, ikaw iyong nakatira sa 392 Columbia

Street, Mandaluyong.

MR. PALMARES. Opo, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.

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Atty. Renato De Jesus, nandito po kayo?

Please talk in the mike. Press.

MR. DE JESUS. Narito po ako, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Atty. Renato De Jesus, nag-submit si

Mark Raymond Valenzuela Palmares, purporting to be the messenger

of Philrem, ng isang affidavit po at ikaw daw ang nag-notaryo nito.

Nakikita po ba—may kopya po ba kayo?

MR. DE JESUS. Mayroon po. Hindi po ito totoo. Hindi ko po

ito signature.

THE CHAIRMAN. Hindi kayo ito?

MR. DE JESUS. Hindi po ako ito. Hindi ko po signature ito.

THE CHAIRMAN. Pero pangalan mo Renato De Jesus?

MR. DE JESUS. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. So, wala kang kinalaman dito? This is—

MR. DE JESUS. Wala po akong—

THE CHAIRMAN. As far as you are concerned, you have

nothing to do with this document?

MR. DE JESUS. Wala po akong kinalaman po dito tungkol sa

bagay na ito.

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THE CHAIRMAN. Well, Mr. Palmares, ano ba itong sina-submit

mo rito at mismong notaryo ang nagsabi hindi daw siya ang nag-

notaryo nito? I warn you, puwede po kayong makulong dito.

MR. PALMARES. Pumunta po ako, sir, sa Pasig City Hall po, sa

notaryo po, kay Renato De Jesus po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Iyon ba? Nandito siya. Siya ba iyon?

MR. PALMARES. Opo. Iyong naka-pink po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Naka-pink. Siya iyan?

MR. PALMARES. Binigay ko po sa secretary niya iyong papel

po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Oo. Iyan si Mr. De Jesus .../jlf

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RJOrtiz IV-1 April 19, 2016 11:48 a.m. 1

THE CHAIRMAN. …Iyan si Mr. De Jesus, nakikita mo iyong

mukha niya, siya ba iyong kinausap mo?

MR. PALMARES. Opo, sir, binigay po sa secretary niya, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Binigay niya sa secretary niya?

MR. PALMARES. Opo, ito pong ano, affidavit.

THE CHAIRMAN. Pero naharap mo siya?

MR. PALMARES. Nakita ko lang po doon, sir, naharap ko po.

THE CHAIRMAN. At ano ang nangyari? Paki-kwento mo

anong nangyari.

MR. PALMARES. Nagsumpa po ako, sir, tapos, sir—

THE CHAIRMAN. Nagsumpa ka?

MR. PALMARES. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Nagtaas ka ng kamay?

MR. PALMARES. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Kanino?

MR. PALMARES. Kay Mr. Renato De Jesus po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Siya nga mismo nagsabi wala siyang

kinalaman diyan?

Ano, Mr. De Jesus, anong tingin--

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MR. DE JESUS. Nagsisinungaling po siya, hindi ko pa po siya

nakikita ni minsan.

THE CHAIRMAN. Ni minsan?

MR. DE JESUS. Ni minsan hindi ko po siya nakita. Sir, ito po

ay hindi ko talagang pirma, malayong malayo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Mayroon kang notarial registry dito, may IBP

No. 1012153, sa iyo po ba itong number na ito, IBP number?

MR. DE JESUS. Hindi ko po masasabi kung ito nga ay akin.

THE CHAIRMAN. Hindi mo memorize iyong number mo?

MR. DE JESUS. Hindi ko po kabisado.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay, understood naman, hindi naman tayo

nagme-memorize ng number natin.

MR. DE JESUS. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Pero I just want to be clear, never mo siyang

nakita?

MR. DE JESUS. Hindi ko po siya nakikita.

THE CHAIRMAN. Kasi kasasabi lang niya nagkaharapan daw

kayo?

MR. DE JESUS. Nagsisinungaling po siya, hindi ko pa siya

nakikita.

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THE CHAIRMAN. Senator Bam Aquino.

SEN. AQUINO. Atty. De Jesus, ito po ba ang pirma ninyo?

Nakita ninyo po iyong affidavit, ito po ba pirma ninyo?

MR. DE JESUS. Sandali lang po. Hindi ko po ito pirma as

notary public.

SEN. AQUINO. Pwede po ba kayong mag-submit ng mga ibang

dokumento ng pirma ninyo?

MR. DE JESUS. Opo, opo, opo I am willing.

SEN. AQUINO. So, in short, sinasabi po ninyo hindi po ito

notarized, itong affidavit na ito dahil you are saying hindi kayo ito?

MR. DE JESUS. Hindi po ako itong pumirma.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. In any case, Mr. Chairman, even if this

is invalidated by the notary we can get the testimony of Mr. Palmares

naman.

THE CHAIRMAN. Yes, yes, yes, of course. We will continue

asking Mr. Palmares.

Senator Enrile.

SEN. ENRILE. Mr. De Jesus, abogado ka, hindi ba?

MR. DE JESUS. Opo.

SEN. ENRILE. May lisensiya ka as a member of the bar?

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MR. DE JESUS. Yes, Your Honor.

SEN. ENRILE. Ngayon, nakalagay dito Atty. Renato E. De

Jesus, iyan ba ang pangalan mo?

MR. DE JESUS. Ito po.

SEN. ENRILE. Ngayon nakalagay dito “notary public--” notary

public ka?

MR. DE JESUS. Opo.

SEN. ENRILE. May lisensiya ka na notary public?

MR. DE JESUS. Opo.

SEN. ENRILE. Okay. Lahat dito sa mga nakasulat dito sa ilalim

noong pangalan mo, alin dito ang hindi totoo?

MR. DE JESUS. As I have told you, Your Honor, hindi ko po

kabisado ang kuwan--

SEN. ENRILE. Alin dito, basahin mo—abogado ka eh.

MR. DE JESUS. Opo.

SEN. ENRILE. Alin dito ang hindi totoo? May hindi totoo diyan

sa mga nakasulat sa ilalim ng pangalan mo?

MR. DE JESUS. Sandali lang po.

SEN. ENRILE. Basahin mo.

MR. DE JESUS. IBP number—PTR. Sandali lang po.

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SEN. ENRILE. Sagutin mo nga—sagutin mo kung mayroong

error—hindi totoo dito sa mga nakalagay na detalye, mga numero,

mga words, salita dito sa ilalim ng pangalan ng Atty. Renato E. De

Jesus?

MR. DE JESUS. Ako po nakakasiguro na hindi ko po ito--

SEN. ENRILE. Huh?

MR. DE JESUS. Nakakasiguro po ako na hindi ko po ito pirma.

Pero ito pong mga nakasaad dito ay hindi ko po makakabisa, hindi ko

po masasabi kung—unless--

SEN. ENRILE. Totoo bang lahat itong mga nakasulat dito sa

ilalim ng—nasa ilalim ng pangalan mo? Totoo ba?

MR. DE JESUS. Hindi ko po masasabing—sa aking pantatak

po—

SEN. ENRILE. Basahin mo sa record—basahin mo at sabihin

mo kung may hindi totoo diyan? Alam mo kayo nagpapalusot kayo

dito.

THE CHAIRMAN. Sandali lang, sandali lang. Bakit hindi mo

masabi--bakit hindi mo masagot iyong tanong ni Senator Enrile, itong

mga ito mga IBP number, PTR dahil hindi mo memorized?

MR. DE JESUS. Opo.

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THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. May opisina ka naman, pwede mong

tawagan ang opisina mo ngayon para malaman mo kung tugma nga

iyong PTR number at saka iyong IBP number.

MR. DE JESUS. Sandali lang po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Mayroon kang MCLE compliance number,

mayroong TIN number. Lahat ito paki-verify.

SEN. ENRILE. Mr. Chairman, mayroon akong susunod na

kuwan.

Alam mo, paano malalaman ito nitong tao na ito, isang

messenger, kung hindi ikaw ang naglagay niyan? Walang

makakaalam, maski sino, maski members ng Supreme Court hindi nila

maime-memorya at ilagay sa ilalim ng pangalan mo, iyang mga details

na iyan sapagkat iyan ay sarili mo, iyan ang hanapbuhay mo.

Pagkatapos magsasabi ka dito hindi mo alam, ano ka ba?

MR. DE JESUS. Ito pong pirma ho talagang hindi ko po pirma

ito.

SEN. ENRILE. Akala mo kami lahat dito ay mangmang.

MR. DE JESUS. Hindi po. Ito pong pirmang ito hindi po talaga

akin ito.

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SEN. ENRILE. Hindi natin alam pa kung totoo iyong sinasabi

mo. Ito mismo pinasisinungalingan mo na itong mga identifying

professional numbers na ibinigay sa iyo.

MR. DE JESUS. Talagang hindi ko po pirma ito, masasabi ko sa

inyo.

THE CHAIRMAN. All right, all right. At any rate, Atty. De

Jesus, tawagan ninyo iyong opisina ninyo, lahat ng mga nanditong

mga detalye can you verify it, and then when you are ready--I would

say maybe 30 minutes would be enough time for you to verify.

But do you affirm again, No. (1), this is not your signature?

MR. DE JESUS. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. No. (2), you are stating that you had never

notarized this?

MR. DE JESUS. Yes, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Yes?

MR. DE JESUS. Yes, Your Honor.

THE CHAIRMAN. No. (3), you have never seen this person?

MR. DE JESUS. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Sige we will wait for you to ‘til--when

you get back.

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SEN. ENRILE. Sandali lang. Did you submit this already to the

registry of documents? Hindi ba lahat ng mga affidavit na ginagawa

ninyo ipinadadala ninyo--nako-compile ito sa isang opisina, hindi ba?

THE CHAIRMAN. Yes, in continuance with the--

SEN. ENRILE. Kayong mga notaryo lahat ng mga dokumento

ninyo it is sent—a copy is sent to the civil registry, I think, hindi ba?

MR. DE JESUS. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Now, could you produce also na lang the

notarial register—the book where you record all the documents that

you notarized?

MR. DE JESUS. Opo, Your Honor.

SEN. ENRILE. Naka-register ito sa notarial book mo, ngayon

sasabihin mo hindi mo ginawa ito?

MR. DE JESUS. Teka sandali lang po tatawagin ko iyong--

THE CHAIRMAN. We will give you 30 minutes.

MR. DE JESUS. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay then.

Mr. Palmares?

MR. PALMARES. Sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Yes, sandali lang ha. Saan ka ba nakatira?

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MR. PALMARES. Sa Greenhills po, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Anong number noong bahay mo?

MR. PALMARES. 392 Columbia.

THE CHAIRMAN. 392 Columbia. Are we ready with that—we

just want to show something Ginoogle Earth (Google Earth) namin

iyong bahay mo. Ito po ang 392 Columbia, bahay mo ba iyan?

MR. PALMARES. Opo, 392 Columbia Street po. Sa boss ko po

iyan—iyong tatay ng boss ko po. Stay in po ako doon, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Stay in ka?

MR. PALMARES. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Sino po ang boss ninyo?

MR. PALMARES. Si Sheba Bautista po--Salud…/rjo

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CBGealan V-1 April 19, 2016 11:58 a.m. 2

MR. PALMARES. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Nakalagay dito nandoon si Ms. Salud

Bautista kasama n’yo?


THE CHAIRMAN. And dala mo yung cash?

MR. PALMARES. Opo, dala ko po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Kanino mo binigay iyong cash?

MR. PALMARES. Kay Ma’am Sheba po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Kay Sheba?

MR. PALMARES. Oho. Ang instruction po niya sa akin, sir,

magkita lang kami sa Solaire. Pagdating doon, sir, inabot ko lang po

iyong receiving copy, sir, na nakalagay po doon na 900,000 iyong

amount po at saka $500,000.

THE CHAIRMAN. Nine hundred million, you mean?

MR. PALMARES. Nine hundred million, sir, sorry.

THE CHAIRMAN. Ninety.

MR. PALMARES. Ninety.

THE CHAIRMAN. Nagkakagulo-gulo na tayo.

MR. PALMARES. Sorry, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Ninety million.

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MR. PALMARES. Ninety million, sir, na pesos at saka po

$500,000.

THE CHAIRMAN. Saan mo kinuha iyong pera?

MR. PALMARES. Bale po pinick up (pick up) ko lang po iyon sa

opisina namin po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Saan iyong opisina n’yo?

MR. PALMARES. Makati po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Anong address?

MR. PALMARES. Sa Cityland.

THE CHAIRMAN. Anong address?

MR. PALMARES. 2401.

THE CHAIRMAN. 2401 Cityland.

MR. PALMARES. Opo, 2401 Cityland.

THE CHAIRMAN. Anong street?

MR. PALMARES. Herrera corner Esteban.

THE CHAIRMAN. So kanto siya?

MR. PALMARES. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Pinick up (pick up) mo?

MR. PALMARES. Oo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Anong oras mo pinick up (pick up)?

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MR. PALMARES. Mga six o’clock siguro iyon, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Six o’clock?

MR. PALMARES. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Sino nagsabi sa iyo na i-pick up iyon?

MR. PALMARES. Si Ma’am Sheba Bautista po. Salud po, Salud.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.

SEN. ENRILE. Six o’clock kahapon?

THE CHAIRMAN. Hindi, hindi. Hindi six o’clock kahapon.

SEN. ENRILE. Ay, kailan iyon?

THE CHAIRMAN. February 5. February 5.

SEN. ENRILE. February 5.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Ngayon, pumasok ka sa Solaire?


THE CHAIRMAN. Dala-dala mo iyong 90 million?


THE CHAIRMAN. At saan mo nakita si Ms. Salud Bautista?

MR. PALMARES. Doon po, sir, sa VIP po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Sa?

MR. PALMARES. Bago pumasok ng VIP.

THE CHAIRMAN. Anong pangalan nung lugar?

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MR. PALMARES. VIP, iyong room po, VIP room.

THE CHAIRMAN. Pumasok ka sa VIP room?

MR. PALMARES. Opo. Dinala ko po iyong 90 million.

THE CHAIRMAN. Anong itsura ng VIP room?

MR. PALMARES. Malaki po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Anong kulay ng…

MR. PALMARES. Para po yatang red po ata iyon.

THE CHAIRMAN. Tapos anong nakalagay sa mga dingding?

MR. PALMARES. Hindi ko na po maalala po, first time ko po na

pumasok doon.

THE CHAIRMAN. First time?

MR. PALMARES. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Pero 18 years ka nang messenger nila?

MR. PALMARES. Seven years lang po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Seven years?

MR. PALMARES. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Pero first time mo lang sa Solaire?

MR. PALMARES. Hindi naman po. Sa VIP lang po first time po

ako na pumasok doon, iyong room lang po iyon.

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THE CHAIRMAN. Anong nakita mo sa loob ng VIP room?

Anong maalala mo?

MR. PALMARES. Mga tao lang po iyong nakita ko po doon,

iyong mga lamesa. Iyon lang po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Sinong kasama ni Ms. Bautista?

MR. PALMARES. Si ano po, Sir Concon po, Bautista.

THE CHAIRMAN. Si Concon, oo. Mga anong oras ito?

MR. PALMARES. Siguro, sir, mga 7:00 to 7:30 siguro, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Seven thirty?

MR. PALMARES. Oo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Ikaw mag-isa?

MR. PALMARES. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Mag-isa. Gaano kabigat ba ang P90,000,000

at kaya mong mag-isa?

MR. PALMARES. Naka-trolley naman po. Ibinaba lang po sa

sasakyan tapos kinarga po sa trolley, tapos dinala ko po doon sa loob

ng building.

THE CHAIRMAN. May trolley sa Solaire?

MR. PALMARES. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. At ilan ang maleta na dala mo?

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MR. PALMARES. Bale po isang malaki po at saka po iyong isa

ganyan po kahaba, ganyan po kataas.

THE CHAIRMAN. Maleta?

MR. PALMARES. Ang maleta po nandoon sa gilid po, malaki po

iyon. Iyong maleta, mga ganyan.

THE CHAIRMAN. So ilang maleta dala mo?

MR. PALMARES. Bale po isang maleta po at saka parang

travelling bag po na mahaba. Ganyan po kahaba.

THE CHAIRMAN. So iyong zipper nasa taas, iyong paganon?

MR. PALMARES. Opo. Pabilog po iyong zipper.

THE CHAIRMAN. Pabilog?

MR. PALMARES. Iyong paikot, sir. Ganyan. Dalawa pong

zipper.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.

MR. PALMARES. At saka po isa pong bag na iyong pambabae

po na ganyan kalaki. Iyong parang shoulder bag po na—

THE CHAIRMAN. So ilang bag lahat-lahat?

MR. PALMARES. Bale tatlo po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Tatlo. Isang shoulder bag na pambabae.

MR. PALMARES. Opo.

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THE CHAIRMAN. Puno ng pera?

MR. PALMARES. Oo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Isang travelling bag?

MR. PALMARES. Oo, iyong malaki pong travelling bag po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Puno rin ng pera?


THE CHAIRMAN. At isang maleta?

MR. PALMARES. Oo. Iyong malaki pong maleta, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Kaya mong kargahin lahat iyon?

MR. PALMARES. Nagpatulong lang po ako, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Sinong tumulong sa iyo?

MR. PALMARES. Sa kasama ko pong driver, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Ah, anong pangalan ng driver na kasama mo?

MR. PALMARES. Sir, kay Ma’am Sheba n’yo na lang po

itanong, sir, kung—

THE CHAIRMAN. Hindi, hindi, tinatanong kita. Sabi mo may

kasama ka.

Tao iyong kasama mo?


THE CHAIRMAN. O, ayun pala.

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MR. PALMARES. Siya iyong nagda-drive lang po iyon sa amin.

THE CHAIRMAN. Anong pangalan niya? Sagutin mo.

Atty. Calleja, are you coaching him? Are you telling him what to

do, what to say?

MR. CALLEJA. I told him to tell the name, Your Honor.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Thank you for that then.

O narinig mo ang attorney mo?

MR. PALMARES. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Alam mo, ang daming intriga na dito. There

is a notary that’s saying na hindi totoo. Magsabi ka na ng totoo, okay.

Anong pangalan noong driver na kasama mo?

MR. PALMARES. Si—

THE CHAIRMAN. Mark, Mark—

MR. PALMARES. Sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Relax ka lang. Okay lang. Ang ano lang is

ilang taon mo nang kasama iyong tao, sabihin mo na iyong pangalan.

Parang simple lang naman pag tinatanong ko.

MR. PALMARES. Ronilo Palmares, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Ah, Palmares din?

MR. PALMARES. Opo.

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THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Relative mo?

MR. PALMARES. Tito ko po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Tito mo?

MR. PALMARES. Oo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Anong first name?

MR. PALMARES. Ronilo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Ronilo. Okay.

Itong Ronilo na ito nakatira din, stay-in din doon sa bahay na ini-

stay in mo?


THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Kayong dalawa ang nagdala ng pera?

MR. PALMARES. Opo, sa Solaire po pero ako na lang po ang

nagpasok doon sa loob ng VIP. Nagpatulong lang po ako doon

pagbaba sa lobby.

THE CHAIRMAN. Sino ang tumulong sa iyo?

MR. PALMARES. Iyong driver pong kasama ko, sir, si Ronilo

Palmares.

THE CHAIRMAN. Ah, pero pagpasok sa VIP hindi na siya

kasama?

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MR. PALMARES. Hindi na po. Kasi may trolley naman po, sir,

kaya ko naman po itulak mag-isa.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Mula nung office hanggang sa

pagbaba sa kotse sino ang tumulong sa iyo?

MR. PALMARES. Mula po sa office, sir, iyong mga staff po at

saka po iyong driver po, si Ronilo Palmares.

THE CHAIRMAN. Si Ronilo Palmares. Okay, sino pa nandoon

sa Solaire, sa VIP?

MR. PALMARES. May mga Chinese po akong nakikita doon, sir,

iyong mga kasama nila ni Ma’am Sheba.

THE CHAIRMAN. Noong binigay mo iyong pera kay Sheba

anong nangyari?

MR. PALMARES. Iyong resibo po binigay ko kay Ma’am Sheba

po kasi siya na lang po magpa-receive noon, iyon po ang instruction sa

akin, tapos po iyong pera po nandiyan lang po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Teka muna, teka muna. Iyong resibo binigay

mo kanino?

MR. PALMARES. Ma’am Sheba po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Kay Sheba. Anong ginawa ni Sheba?

MR. PALMARES. Pina-receive niya po.

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THE CHAIRMAN. Pina-receive niya. Hindi ba iyong resibo ay

ikaw ang nakapirma?

MR. PALMARES. Opo. Pangalan ko po iyan, sir, sa resibo para

po in case po na may problema po iyong pera, sir, “Delivered by” po

nakalagay doon pangalan ko. Kung mayroon pong problema, sir,

halimbawa, sir, may fake o kulang po, ako po iyong babalikan ni

Ma’am Sheba kasi nakalagay po doon “Delivered by Mark”. Iyon po

yung katunayan lang, sir, na ako po iyong nag-deliver ng—

THE CHAIRMAN. Ito iyong procedure n’yo?

MR. PALMARES. Procedure po.

THE CHAIRMAN. At nakita mong pinirmahan ito?

MR. PALMARES. Hindi po, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Hindi mo nakita?

MR. PALMARES. Hindi po. Kasi, sir…/cbg

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HSGayapa VI-1 April 19, 2016 12:08 p.m. 1

MR. PALMARES. ...Hindi po. Kasi, sir, malayo po sila, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Gaano kalayo?

MR. PALMARES. Siguro, sir, ito at saka iyong aircon na iyon,

sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. Iyong aircon diyan, ganoon kalayo?

MR. PALMARES. Oho.

THE CHAIRMAN. So, kinuha ni Ms. Sheba sa iyo--

MR. PALMARES. Binigay ko po sa kanya.

THE CHAIRMAN. Binigay mo.

MR. PALMARES. Kasi siya na lang daw po ang magpapa-

receive.

THE CHAIRMAN. Tapos lumakad siya papunta doon?

MR. PALMARES. Uh-huh.

THE CHAIRMAN. Pero nasa loob ka ng kuwarto?

MR. PALMARES. Oho. Nasa gilid lang po kami.

THE CHAIRMAN. Sa gilid.

What happened, Ms. Salud, with the receipt? How did you

transport the money to Mr. Weikang Xu?

MS. BAUTISTA. Your Honor, iyong pera ho nasa trolley.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.

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MS. BAUTISTA. Tapos dinala nila, iyong group nila, iyong mga

Chinese people. Tapos--

THE CHAIRMAN. No, you transported it from where he was

standing.

MS. BAUTISTA. No, the money was there in the trolley, doon

lang sa labas.

THE CHAIRMAN. Outside?

MS. BAUTISTA. Oo. Parang--hindi ba, pagpasok mo kasi sa

Solaire, hindi ba nasa right side iyong ano, iyong VIP area?

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. I haven’t been there.

MS. BAUTISTA. Yes. So, the VIP area is on the right side tapos

pagpasok mo sa lobby ng Solaire, doon sa VIP area na iyon.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. And then what happened? You gave

the receipt to Mr. Weikang Xu? Please tell us what happened.

Pakikuwento lang.

MS. BAUTISTA. Actually si Mr. Wong was there. So, sabi niya

player niya si Mr. Weikang Xu. So, siya na ang nag-identify kaya

kinuha ko na lang iyong passport tapos pinapirmahan sa kaniya.

THE CHAIRMAN. And then piniktyuran (picture) mo ba iyong

passport?

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MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir.

THE CHAIRMAN. So, Mr. Weikang Xu signed it in front of you?

MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, Your Honor.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.

Senator Aquino.

SEN. AQUINO. Mark, good morning.


SEN. AQUINO. Good morning.

So, may mga tanong lang ako. Pakisagot lang, ano, iyong mga

tanong.

So, nasabi before ni Ms. Salud na lahat noong mga deliveries

kasama ka daw, totoo ba iyon?

MR. PALMARES. Opo, ito pong ano lang po, ito pong 5

hanggang po 13. Kaya iyong sa Solaire lang po si Ma’am Sheba ang

kasama ko po dito at saka si Sir Concon.

SEN. AQUINO. Iyong February 10, February 11, February 12,

February 13, kasama ka rin doon, hindi ba?

MR. PALMARES. Bale po ako lang po iyong nagdi-deliver po ng

pera sa bahay po nila tapos po iniiwan ko lang po kay Sir Concon iyong

receiving copy po at saka po iyong mga cash po.

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SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So, wala ka noong binigay kay Weikang

Xu iyong pera? Itong nasa number six sa iyong affidavit--one, two,

three, four, five, six, eight--itong eight transactions dito sa number six

nakalagay kasi sa salaysay mo, “The other cash deliveries that I made

which took place in the residence of the Bautistas were as follows--”

So, kumbaga, nandoon ka noong na-deliver iyong perang ito, tama ba?

So, Mark, naintindihan mo iyong--I’ll repeat the question.

Dito sa affidavit mo nakalagay dito na on February 10, may 100

million at saka $3 million; February 11, 100 million, $2 million;

February 12, 100 million, $3.5 million; February 13, 100 million, $6

million. Nandoon ka ba noong diniliver (deliver) iyong perang ito?

MR. PALMARES. Nasa bahay lang po ako, sir, hinahatid ko lang

po iyong ano, iyong cash po, iyong pera.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Hinahatid mo siya--

MR. PALMARES. Doon po sa kay Mr. Bautista.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Mula sa--?

MR. PALMARES. Mula po sa opisina, dadalhin ko po doon sa

bahay nila.

SEN. AQUINO. So, iyong perang ito nasa opisina?

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SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Pagdating mo doon, iniwan mo iyong

pera sa bahay nila?

MR. PALMARES. Opo.

SEN. AQUINO. Alam mo ba kung kanino nila binigay iyong

pera?

MR. PALMARES. Hindi po.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Kasi sa iyong affidavit, nakalagay iyong

beneficiary kung kanino napunta?

MR. PALMARES. Opo, kung kanino napunta po, kay Weikang

Xu. Noong six po kasi noong February 9 po, isang beses po na

paghatid ko po ng pera, kumakain po ako, naabutan ko po habang

nagkakarga sila noong pera pero hindi ko po nakita kung sino po doon

si Weikang Xu kasi po marami sila.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So, kung nandito si Weikang Xu hindi

mo matuturo?

MR. PALMARES. Hindi ko po maalala ang mukha, sir, kasi

marami ho silang magkakamukha, sir, mga Chinese, sir.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So, hindi mo rin alam na si Weikang Xu

iyong kumuha ng perang ito?

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MR. PALMARES. Hindi po kasi iyon pong instruction lang po na

sila na po ni Sir Concon ang magpapa-receive at haharap po sa tao.

Ako lang po ang magdadala ng pera galing po sa--

SEN. AQUINO. Magde-deliver?

MR. PALMARES. Deliver lang po talaga ako ng pera sa bahay

nila.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So, unang-una, Mark, ipo-point-out ko

lang na sa affidavit mo nilagay mo dito na napunta kay Weikang Xu

iyong pera. Sa totoo, hindi mo talaga alam kung kanino napunta iyong

pera. Ang alam mo naibigay mo kay Concon at saka kay Salud, tama?

MR. PALMARES. Sir, kasi ang instruction po sa akin, sir, sa

beneficiary po “Weikang Xu” po ang ilalagay, “deliver, Weikang Xu.”

Ako po ang gumawa noong receiving copy, sir.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay.

MR. PALMARES. Tapos sila na po iyong haharap sa tao, sir.

SEN. AQUINO. Ah, okay. So, itong beneficiary na Weikang Xu

ito iyong utos sa iyo ng mga Bautista?

MR. PALMARES. Oho, uh-huh.

SEN. AQUINO. Hindi mo talaga nakita personally na

pinirmahan ito ni Weikang Xu?

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MR. PALMARES. Hindi po.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So, kinaklaro ko lang. Hindi mo

nakitang pinirmahan iyong mga resibo ng isang Weikang Xu?

MR. PALMARES. Opo, hindi po.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So, si Weikang Xu kung nandiyan siya sa

harap mo, hindi mo rin masasabi kung sino si Weikang Xu?


SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Si Mr. Kim Wong kilala mo ba?


SEN. AQUINO. Noong sa Solaire, wala ba siya doon noong

diniliver (deliver) mo iyong 90 million and $500,000 o hindi mo na

maalala?

MR. PALMARES. Hindi ko lang po sure, sir, kung nandoon siya,

sir, kasi may mga Chinese po, sir. Hindi ko rin po maalala iyong

mukha niya, sir, kasi nakilala ko lang siya, sir, sa TV noong sa balita

nakita ko lang. Pero hindi ko po maalala kung nandoon po siya at

hindi po ako sure.

SEN. AQUINO. Kung nandoon siya.

Mr. Wong, nandoon ka ba, itong 90 million and 500,000 sa

Solaire? Nandoon ka, hindi ba, noong diniliver (deliver) iyong pera?

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MR. WONG. Iyong 90 ho at saka 500, hindi ko po alam iyon.

SEN. AQUINO. Five hundred thousand. Hindi ba ito iyong

February 5 na nag-dinner kayo with Maia?

MR. WONG. Eighty lang ho ang alam ko, 80 at saka 20 lang ho.

SEN. AQUINO. Ah, 80 million--

MR. WONG. Kasi may 500, palagay ko baka hindi po ako iyon.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay.

THE CHAIRMAN. Eighty million iyong kay--

SEN. AQUINO. Iyong delivery ng P80 million, si Mr. Palmares

ba nakita mo ba siyang nag-deliver noong pera?

MR. WONG. Hindi ko po siya kilala.

SEN. AQUINO. Hindi mo rin siya nakita ever?

MR. WONG. Never po.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay.

Sige, Mark. Si Mr. Wong hindi mo rin kilala?


SEN. AQUINO. Okay.

Pero, Ms. Salud, in your testimony Mr. Wong was there to

receive this, right?

Could you speak into the mike, please?

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MS. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So, sa iyong testimony--

MS. BAUTISTA. Kasama ho niya si Weikang Xu.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So, in your testimony, si Mark diniliver

(deliver) iyong pera sa VIP room. Nandoon si Mr. Wong, nandoon si

Mr. Weikang Xu.

MS. BAUTISTA. At saka iba pa hong mga Chinese.

SEN. AQUINO. And other Chinese individuals.

Mr. Wong, totoo ba iyon doon pa nga ba kayo sa VIP room

nagka-exchange ng pera? Iyong 80 million po, was that in the VIP

room o sa ibang kuwarto po iyon?

MR. WONG. Dumating po sa VIP room ho tapos noong dalawa

nilang tao, nilabas, hinatid ho, hinihintay namin iyong kay Maia,

hinatid ho hanggang junket ng second floor ng Sun City ho, malayo po

iyon.

SEN. AQUINO. Malayo iyon.

MR. WONG. Opo, siguro--

SEN. AQUINO. Hindi ho si Mr. Palmares iyong dalawang taong

iyon?

MR. WONG. Hindi po, mas malaki ho.

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SEN. AQUINO. Mas malaki kay Mr. Palmares?

MR. WONG. Opo.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay.

Mark, so sinasabi ni Mr. Wong hindi daw ikaw iyong nag-deliver

noong pera. Ang testimony mo binigay mo iyong pera pero hanggang

doon lang sa VIP room. Hinatid mo ba ito doon sa junket operator?

MR. PALMARES. Doon sa VIP room lang po, sa baba.

SEN. AQUINO. Hanggang doon lang?

MR. PALMARES. Hanggang doon lang po ako sa baba, sir.

SEN. AQUINO. Hindi mo siya inakyat sa second floor, iyon po

iyong sabi ni Mr. Kim Wong?

MR. PALMARES. Umalis na po ako noon, sir, noong pagkabigay

ko kay Ma’am Sheba.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Sige. So, magkakaiba na naman iyong

kuwento natin, huh?

Ito lang sa number six, ano, itong mga panahong nag-deliver ka

ng pera, apat na araw ito, mula sa inyong opisina hanggang sa bahay

ng mga Bautista hanggang doon lang ang alam mo. Wala ka ng ibang

nalalaman?

MR. PALMARES. Deliver lang po talaga ako, sir.

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MPMENDOZA VII-1 April 19, 2016 12:18 p.m. 1

SEN. AQUINO. …Hindi, pero wala ka namang cash delivery

noong February 9.—Ah, itong isa.

MR. PALMARES. Opo, mayroon po.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay.

MR. PALMARES. Doon ko po, sir, nakakita na one time, sir,

may—

SEN. AQUINO. Ito iyong hundred ten million pesos and three

million dollars?

MR. PALMARES. Oho.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Hindi mo rin nakita kung kaninong kotse

iyon? Hindi pamilyar sa iyo o pamilyar sa iyo iyong mga kotse?

MR. PALMARES. Hindi ko po pamilyar, sir. Parang mga dark

color, sir. Madilim kasi, sir.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Mark, maibang usapan. Ilang years ka

na nagtatrabaho sa Philrem?

MR. PALMARES. Seven years na po.

SEN. AQUINO. Seven years. Anong mga trabaho mo sa

Philrem? O lagi ka bang messenger?

MR. PALMARES. Messenger po, nagda-drive din po minsan.

Pag wala pong transaction, drive lang po ako.

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MR. PALMARES. Wala po, sir. Ako lang po. Pag ako po iyong

messenger, siya po iyong driver lang talaga.

SEN. AQUINO. So kayo iyong tandem?

MR. PALMARES. Oho.

SEN. AQUINO. So kumbaga, in your seven years, ngayon lang

nagkaroon ng mga transakyon na ganito kalaking pera ang diniliver

(deliver) sa mga casino at ni-release mula sa bahay ng mga Bautista?

MR. PALMARES. Opo.

SEN. AQUINO. Hindi ka nagtaka o hindi ninyo sila tinanong,

“Ma’am, parang bagong transaction po ito?”

MR. PALMARES. Hindi naman po ako nagtaka, sir, kasi

syempre utos ng boss ko iyon, sir. Messenger lang po ako, sir.

SEN. AQUINO. Pero alam mong malaking pera ang umiikot sa

Philrem? Kasi ganoon talaga iyong negosyo nila.

MR. PALMARES. Oho.

SEN. AQUINO. Pero ngayon lang nagka-encash na ganito

kalaki, sa iyong pagkakaalam?

MR. PALMARES. Hindi ko naman, sir, na inisip kung ano kasi

sumusunod lang ako ng utos nila.

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SEN. AQUINO. Oo nga. Pero in your seven years, nag-deliver

ka ba ng ₱1 million para sa ibang kliyente?

MR. PALMARES. One million po, sa bangko lang po.

SEN. AQUINO. Sa bangko. Iyong sa tao or sa casino?

MR. PALMARES. Mayroon po, sa mga tao.

SEN. AQUINO. Sa mga tao.

MR. PALMARES. Pag halimbawa po bibili sila ng dollar,

ibabayad po sa akin ng cash.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. So nangyayari naman iyon, ano?

MR. PALMARES. Oho.

SEN. AQUINO. Usually na sa magkanong level lang iyan—five

million, two million?

MR. PALMARES. Mga … two million po, mga ganoon—2.5.

SEN. AQUINO. Hindi lumalagpas ng 10 million?

MR. PALMARES. Bibihira po iyang ganyan na transaction.

SEN. AQUINO. Bihira. So mas bihira itong 100 million, $3

million—bihirang-bihira iyan?

MR. PALMARES. Iyan po talaga, sir, iyong pinakamalaki ko na

hong transaction na naranasan, sir, sa Philrem.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay, sige.

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Mr. Chairman, I am done with my questions for Mr. Palmares.

THE CHAIRMAN. Mr. Kim Wong, noong diniliver (deliver)

iyong—Well, according to your story, 80 million ni Mr. Concon, hindi si

Mr. Palmares iyong kasama ni Mr. Concon?

MR. WONG. Hindi ko po alam. Hindi ko po siya nakita.

THE CHAIRMAN. Hindi mo siya nakita. May nakita ka—ilang

tao ang kasama ni Mr. Concon Bautista?

MR. WONG. Dalawa po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Dalawang tao?

MR. WONG. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Ilang bag ang dala nila?

MR. WONG. Ano po?

THE CHAIRMAN. Kasi nag-deliver ng 80 million, ano? So ilang

bag ang dala nila?

MR. WONG. Isang kahon ho, malaki, at saka isang bag po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. So iyong bag, maleta o anong klaseng

bag?

MR. WONG. Karton ho siya at saka isang parang bag na, hindi

ho maleta, iyong—parang hand carry ho.

THE CHAIRMAN. Parang hand carry?

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MR. WONG. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. So pati sa kwento talagang nagkakaiba dahil

iyong isa kahon at saka bag. Ito, dalawang bag, ano—sabi mo,

handbag, traveling bag and maleta? Okay.

Doon sa bahay noong February 10, 11, 12, nakalagay dito ikaw

ang nag-deliver doon sa residence, Mark?


THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Nandoon ka noong pinick up (pick up)

iyong pera?

MR. PALMARES. Noong February 9 lang po, sir, iyong una pong

deliver ko sa bahay ni Mr. Bautista.

THE CHAIRMAN. Ano ang nangyari noong February 9? Paki-

kuwento mo nga.

MR. PALMARES. Noong February 9 po, nagdala ako ng 110

million at $3 million sa bahay ni Mr. Bautista.

THE CHAIRMAN. Saan mo kinuha?

MR. PALMARES. Galing po sa office sa Cityland.

THE CHAIRMAN. Sa Cityland din? Okay. Ano ang nangyari

doon?

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MR. PALMARES. Binigay ko po iyong cash kay Sir Concon at

saka po iyong receiving copy na—sila na po iyong magpapa-receive

noong pera at saka iyong receiving copy. Siya na po iyong haharap sa

tao.

THE CHAIRMAN. Siya iyong haharap sa tao. Iyong receiving

copy may nakasulat na ba, wala pa?

MR. PALMARES. Mayroon na po, sinulatan ko na po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Ano ang sinulat mo?

MR. PALMARES. Date po, tapos kung kanino idi-deliver—

Weikang Xu.

THE CHAIRMAN. Weikang Xu. So ikaw ang nagsulat nitong

“Weikang Xu”?

MR. PALMARES. Ako po, opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Itong “2-9-16 Weikang Xu,” okay. Tapos ikaw

rin naglagay ng pangalan mo dito? “Mark” iyong nakalagay.

MR. PALMARES. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Pero wala pang pirma noong—

MR. PALMARES. Wala pa po kasi si Sir Concon po iyong

magpapa-receive po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Mga anong oras ito nangyari?

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MR. PALMARES. Iyong dating ko po doon sa bahay nila mga

7:30—siguro po mga 7:30 po dumating ako doon sa bahay nila.

THE CHAIRMAN. Gabi o umaga?

MR. PALMARES. Gabi po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Gabi. Pagkatapos mong ibinigay, ano ang

nangyari?

MR. PALMARES. Noong tapos ko pong ibigay noong February

9, kumain po muna ako doon, nagkuwento-kuwento doon sa mga

kasambahay, mga driver doon na driver noong ano. Kumain po ako.

Pagkatapos po, mga siguro magna-nine po iyon, paglabas ko, pauwi na

ako, nakita ko na po na nilo-load na nila iyong—

THE CHAIRMAN. Nine o’clock ng gabi?

MR. PALMARES. Gabi po. Nilo-load na po nila iyong pera.

THE CHAIRMAN. Mr. Kim Wong, sabi mo daw—nakalagay,

ayon sa kuwento mo, mayroon kang 100 million at saka three million

na pick up sa Bautista na bahay, February 9?

MR. WONG. Opo, Your Honor.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Sa kuwento ng Philrem, both of you

have $3 million but then sa pesos, there’s a 10 million difference.

Okay.

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At any rate, noong pinick up (pick up) ninyo po iyong pera, mga

anong oras iyon nangyari?

MR. WONG. Gabi na po iyon, siguro mga 10:00 o 11:00 na.

THE CHAIRMAN. Ten or 11:00?

MR. WONG. Ng gabi po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Oo. Mag-isa ka lang?

MR. WONG. Hindi po. Five or six kami—five.

THE CHAIRMAN. Five or six.

MR. WONG. Iyong driver ko po, bodyguard ko at saka

bodyguard pa ho, apat.

THE CHAIRMAN. Apat?

MR. WONG. Bale limang bodyguard ko po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Ilang sasakyan?

MR. WONG. Dalawa po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Dalawang sasakyan?

MR. WONG. Kasi iyong naka-assign sa PSPG sa akin pulis po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.

MR. WONG. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. At sino ang nandoon sa bahay, si Concon lang

o si Salud nandoon din?

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MR. WONG. I think si Concon lang yata ho noong 9—pinick up

(pick up) ko lang ho sa kanya.

THE CHAIRMAN. Pinick up (pick up) mo lang?

MR. WONG. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. Dito naman sa ibang deliveries, Mr.

Mark, itong February 11, 12, 13, ikaw ba ang nag-deliver nito?

MR. PALMARES. Opo. Ganoon pa rin po iyong nangyari.

Kinukuha ko sa office, sa Makati Cityland tapos po kung kumpleto na,

dadalhin ko na sa bahay ni Sir Concon.

THE CHAIRMAN. Bahay ni Sir Concon?

MR. PALMARES. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay. At wala kang nakitang ibang tao

pagdating sa pick up ng kuwarta?

MR. PALMARES. Wala na po. Iyong February 9 lang, iyon po

may nakita ako.

THE CHAIRMAN. Mga anong oras iyong delivery mo sa

February 10?

MR. PALMARES. February 10 po, mga ganyan po, mga…/mpm

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Aliccatimbang VIII-1 April 19, 2016 12:28 p.m. 1

MR. PALMARES. …February 10 po, mga ganyan po, mga nine

to ten po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Sa gabi?

MR. PALMARES. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Panay gabi deliveries n’yo.

MR. PALMARES. Opo, gabi po. Kasi kinukumpleto pa iyong

cash, sir, bago dalhin sa bahay—

THE CHAIRMAN. So February 11, anong oras din?

MR. PALMARES. Mga ganyang oras din po. Hindi po bababa sa

nine o’clock, sir, ang—hindi, sir. Iyong dala ko, sir, sa bahay nila?

THE CHAIRMAN. Oo.

MR. PALMARES. Seven thirty to eight o’clock kailangan

kumpleto na po iyan kasi may pi-pick up na po diyan mga nine to ten

THE CHAIRMAN. Nine to ten. Okay.

Mr. Kim Wong, sino po ang nagsabi sa inyo na pumunta ka sa

bahay at pick up-in iyong pera?

MR. WONG. Si Concon po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Si Concon.

MR. WONG. Opo.

THE CHAIRMAN. Do you confirm that, Mr. Concon?

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MR. BAUTISTA. So when the money is ready…

THE CHAIRMAN. Please, please, put the mike closer. Thank

you.

MR. BAUTISTA. So when we get the amount of the delivery for

the day, we would tell Maia that this would be the delivery amounts

and they would come.

THE CHAIRMAN. No. But Mr. Kim Wong just said that you

were the one who told Kim Wong to go to the house and pick up the—

You told Mr. Kim Wong.

MR. BAUTISTA. Sir, all the instructions came from Maia.

THE CHAIRMAN. The instructions to whom?

MR. BAUTISTA. For the cash portion for the pick up.

THE CHAIRMAN. The instructions to you, you mean? Pakiklaro

lang. Pakiklaro lang. The instructions to whom? To you.

MR. BAUTISTA. Sa amin po.

THE CHAIRMAN. Okay.

MR. BAUTISTA. So whatever cash we can raise to complete the

transaction, whatever the amount for the day would be raised, so I

just tell her the amount and then somebody comes to pick it up.

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THE CHAIRMAN. So Ms. Maia was the one who told you that

Mr. Kim Wong is coming?

MR. BAUTISTA. Well, Weikang Xu, sir. But the interpreter was

Mr. Kim Wong.

THE CHAIRMAN. Yes, Senator Aquino.

SEN. AQUINO. So just for the record. Mr. Bautista, hindi n’yo

po tinawagan si Mr. Wong?

MR. BAUTISTA. No, sir.

SEN. AQUINO. Regarding any of these transactions?

MR. BAUTISTA. No, sir.

SEN. AQUINO. Pero kasama siya doon sa iba, you were saying,

hindi ba?

MR. BAUTISTA. Yes, sir.

SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Mr. Wong, pakiulit lang po?

MR. WONG. Yes, sir.

SEN. AQUINO. Are you saying na si Mr. Bautista mismo ‘yung

tumawag sa iyo na pick up-in na iyong pera on February 9?

MR. WONG. Nagkausap po kami sa phone. Ang sabi niya may

ganito raw pera na kunin na lang sa bahay.

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SEN. AQUINO. Okay. Kasi ang sinasabi niya, never ka niyang

tinawagan. So are you certain, sigurado ka ba na tinawagan ka ni Mr.

Bautista?

MR. WONG. Sigurado po.

SEN. AQUINO. So kung i-check natin iyong phone records on

February 9, nandoon iyong telephone number niya?

MR. WONG. Siguro po.

SEN. AQUIN

TRANSCRIPT: 6th Public Hearing of the Senate Blue Ribbon Committee on the $81-M Money Laundering...

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Transcript of TRANSCRIPT: 6th Public Hearing of the Senate Blue Ribbon Committee on the $81-M Money Laundering...