Petition 4364 - Volume 12 Transcript of Public Hearing - Kane … · 2017. 10. 8. · KANE COUNTY...

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Transcript of Public Hearing Petition 4364 - Volume 12 Date: January 24, 2017 Case: Kane County Zoning Board of Appeals Planet Depos Phone: 888-433-3767 Fax: 888-503-3767 Email: [email protected] www.planetdepos.com WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTING | INTERPRETATION | TRIAL SERVICES

Transcript of Petition 4364 - Volume 12 Transcript of Public Hearing - Kane … · 2017. 10. 8. · KANE COUNTY...

Page 1: Petition 4364 - Volume 12 Transcript of Public Hearing - Kane … · 2017. 10. 8. · KANE COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT CLERK - BRANCH COURT 530 South Randall Road St. Charles, Illinois 60174

Transcript of Public HearingPetition 4364 - Volume 12

Date: January 24, 2017Case: Kane County Zoning Board of Appeals

Planet DeposPhone: 888-433-3767Fax: 888-503-3767Email: [email protected]

WORLDWIDE COURT REPORTING | INTERPRETATION | TRIAL SERVICES

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BEFORE THE KANE COUNTY ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS--------------------------------xIn Re: :MAXXAM PARTNERS, LLC :Special Use request in the :F Farming District for a :private-pay alcoholism and :substance abuse treatment : Petition No. 4364facility, 41W400 Silver Glen :Road, Section 19, Campton :Township (08-19-400-004) and :Section 34, Plato Township :(05-34-300-032 & 05-34-400-025) :--------------------------------x

PUBLIC HEARING - VOLUME XII St. Charles, Illinois Tuesday, January 24, 2017 7:06 p.m.

Job No.: 131277Pages: 1673 - 1807Reported by: Paula M. Quetsch, CSR, RPR

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PUBLIC HEARING, held at the location of:

KANE COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT CLERK - BRANCH COURT 530 South Randall Road St. Charles, Illinois 60174 (630) 232-3495

Before Paula M. Quetsch, a Certified ShorthandReporter, Registered Professional Reporter, and aNotary Public in and for the State of Illinois.

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PRESENT: ANN MICHALSEN, Vice Chairwoman TRACY ARIS, Member MARC FALK, Member MARY LAKE, Member WENDY MELGIN, Member MARGUERITE MILLEN, Member

ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT MAXXAM PARTNERS, LLC: ANDREW E. KOLB, ESQUIRE VANEK, LARSON & KOLB, LLC 200 West Main Street St. Charles, Illinois 60174 (630) 513-9800

ON BEHALF OF THE KANE COUNTY BOARD: PATRICK KINNALLY, ESQUIRE KINNALLY FLAHERTY KRENTZ LORAN HODGE & MASUR, PC 2114 Deerpath Road Aurora, Illinois 60506 (630) 907-0909

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ON BEHALF OF OBJECTOR JOLINE ANDRZEJEWSKI: KEVIN M. CARRARA, ESQUIRE RATHJE WOODWARD, LLC 300 East Roosevelt Road Suite 300 Wheaton, Illinois 60187 (630) 668-8500

ON BEHALF OF FOX RIVER AND COUNTRYSIDEFIRE RESCUE DISTRICT: KENNETH SHEPRO, ESQUIRE KENNETH SHEPRO, COUNSELOR AT LAW 33W542 Army Trail Road Wayne, Illinois 60184 (630) 377-7372

ALSO PRESENT: MARK VANKERKHOFF, Zoning Enforcing Officer KEITH BERKHOUT, Secretary

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C O N T E N T SEXAMINATION OF JOHN R. NIXON PAGE By Mr. Shepro 1686 By Mr. VanKerkhoff 1736 By Mr. Kinnally 1737 By Mr. Shepro 1741 By Mr. Kolb 1742 By Mr. Shepro 1745 By Mr. Wagner 1746 By Mr. Blecker 1749 By Ms. Bartels 1750 By Mr. Holstein 1751 By Mr. Shepro 1754

EXAMINATION OF ROBERT HANDLEY By Mr. Shepro 1763 By Mr. Kinnally 1767 By Mr. Squire 1770

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E X H I B I T S (Retained by the Board.)

EXHIBITS ID EVD Exhibit F Draft Working Concepts 1681 1682 Exhibit G Campton Township Suggested 1775 1775 Conditions Exhibit H Campton Hills Suggested 1776 1776 Conditions Exhibit I "Not in My Back Yard" 1806 1806 Analysis Exhibit J Poletti Report Analysis 1806 1806

FIRE DISTRICT EXHIBITS Exhibit 1 Résumé 1687 1688 Exhibit 2 Anatomy of an Ambulance Call, 1708 Proposed Facility. Exhibit 3 Proposed Conditions to 1722 1732 Maxxam's Special Use

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P R O C E E D I N G S VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Good evening.I'd like to call this meeting to order. Mr. Secretary, if we could have a roll call,please. MR. BERKHOUT: Aris. MEMBER ARIS: Here. MR. BERKHOUT: Falk. MEMBER FALK: Here. MR. BERKHOUT: Lake. MEMBER LAKE: Here. MR. BERKHOUT: Melgin. MEMBER MELGIN: Here. MR. BERKHOUT: Michalsen. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Here. MR. BERKHOUT: Millen. MEMBER MILLEN: Here. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. Wehave all six remaining members of the Zoning Boardpresent so we have a quorum. At this time if we can please stand and saythe Pledge of Allegiance. (The Pledge of Allegiance was recited.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Good evening to

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the petitioner, representatives of units of localgovernment, adjacent property owners, and otherinterested parties. The public hearing this evening is forMaxxam Partners, LLC, Petition No. 4364 for aSpecial Use in the F Farming District for a PrivatePay Alcoholism of Substance Abuse Treatment Facility.It is a continuation of the public hearing opened onTuesday, January 10th, 2017. We thank everyone whoattended the previous hearings. Tonight's public hearing, as well as anysubsequent public hearings, if needed, are to hearnew evidence pertaining to the petition, allowquestions of the petitioner regarding new evidence,and receive public comment regarding the newevidence. There is no need to repeat submittal ofevidence, testimony, or comments already presentedin previous hearings except to the extent that it isdirectly relevant to new evidence presented in theseadditional hearings. First, a few housekeeping matters. We wouldlike to have staff present the exhibit dropped offby Campton Township at the last meeting.

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MR. VANKERKHOFF: Thank you, Madam Chairman.Yes, to refresh the Board's memory, towards the veryend of the last meeting, Mr. Joe Miller representingCampton Township as a trustee handed staff a list ofcomments and that was never -- because of thelateness of the hour hadn't been accepted as anofficial exhibit. So staff has provided a copy toall the Zoning Board members and would request thatyou enter that as Exhibit F into the record. (Exhibit F marked for identification.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: And is that -- Iapologize -- is that the one that says "In theMatter of Maxxam Partners' Petition" or the one thatsays "Draft Working Concepts" at the top? MR. VANKERKHOFF: Draft Working Concepts. MEMBER FALK: That's F, as in "Frank"? VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Do I have amotion to accept the document tiled "Draft WorkingConcepts" from Campton Township into evidence asExhibit F? MEMBER FALK: I'll make the motion. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: So moved. Do Ihave a second? MEMBER ARIS: I'll second.

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VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: All in favorsay aye. (Ayes heard.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: All opposed,same sign. (No response.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Motion carries.The exhibit is entered into evidence. (Exhibit F admitted into evidence andretained by the Board.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: We have somedocuments that will come later in the evening fromthose units of government. The next quick item, hopefully, ofhousekeeping, the Board had a couple follow-upquestions for the petitioner based on Mr. Marco'stestimony at the last hearing. First, I know that -- I do recall thatMr. Marco testified to 120 to 180 employees beingemployed by this facility. We wanted to make itvery clear for the record. Is that going to impactthe traffic study that was done, that estimated70 employees at any time on the facility? MR. MARCO: Good evening, Chairwoman, fellow

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Board members. I know it was -- VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: If I could justswear you in first, that would be great. MR. MARCO: Oh, sure. (Witness sworn.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. THE WITNESS: I know it was a long night,but if we were to refer back to the transcript, youand I had a very lovely dialogue to make sure it wasvery clear what that number was and that there wasno alteration of the representation. And thecategorical range we discussed I clarified wasfinancial impact, talking about related marketingoffices, administration office, nothing to do withpeople on campus. And then once I clarified thatquestion, I gave you the answer which I will repeatagain tonight, which is there's no alterations tothe representations represented in the trafficstudy, and we're talking about all third-partyfinancial impact, talking about ancillary jobs as Ijust mentioned, construction, et cetera, to createsuch an operation, not that would actually affecttraffic but be on campus providing care. Thank you.

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VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. Secondly, you did testify about some lifesafety studies at the last hearing. Did you haveany studies done that can be provided to the ZBA forreview? MR. MARCO: There are no other studiesexcept for those in the record, and when I wasreferring to it -- and I actually clarified to Mark,but to assert again, we have no additional studies. We were talking to some engineering questionsand some other related questions that came fromstaff, questions earlier on in the process whichalso included things related to wastewater and otherstaff responses, and so kind of some of thosequestions that we spent resources answering andsubmitted directly to the zoning department that Idon't know was immediately available to you all toreview. So that was something that I followed upwith and forwarded again to the zoning department. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: I believeMr. VanKerkhoff has a question. MR. VANKERKHOFF: Sure. Just to clarifyagain, I reviewed those preliminary submittals thathad been made to staff in response to some technical

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questions after their first meeting with us prior tothe submitting the petition, and none of thosequestions nor any of the following submittalsincluded any architectural and life safety reports,just to clarify that for the record. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. At this time, just to go over the agenda forthe rest of the evening, we're going to continuewith the fire department -- or the fire districtpresenting its, I believe two witnesses who havevery kindly appeared for two different hearings andare finally getting presented, and we do very muchappreciate their patience and continuing to return. After those witnesses have been presented,the petitioner may cross-examine them, otherobjectors may cross-examine, along with units ofgovernment and the public. After we close with the fire district'switnesses, we will open the meeting up to publiccomment on the conditions and/or any new evidencethat should be considered by the Zoning Board atthat time. So we'll see what time of the evening we getthere, and that will sort of determine how late

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we're going to go tonight and what the format isgoing to look like. So at this time I would ask if Mr. Sheprowould bring his first witness. MR. SHEPRO: Yes. I would call our ChiefJohn R. Nixon to testify, please. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. MR. SHEPRO: Madam Chairman, I have someexhibits to give to the witness, and to counsel, andthe Board, if I may I approach all the necessarytables. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Sure. MR. SHEPRO: I apologize but I think thiswill save time later on. JOHN R. NIXON,having been duly sworn, testified as follows: EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR OBJECTORBY MR. SHEPRO: Q Chief, would you state your name and addressfor the record, please. A My name is John R. Nixon. My home addressis 500 Clover Drive, Algonquin, Illinois. Q And what is your current employment? A I'm currently employed as the fire chief for

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the Fox River and Countryside Fire Rescue District. (Fire District Exhibit 1 marked foridentification.) Q I'm going to show you what we're marking asFire District Exhibit 1. Is that your résumé? A This is a copy of my résumé. Q And do the matters reflected on that reflectyour training, experience, and career history? A Yes. It's accurate. Q Is that up-to-date? A And current. Q I don't want to go through the whole résumé.Could you summarize briefly for -- well, strike that. When did you become chief of the Fox RiverCountryside Fire Rescue District? A September 1st of 2016. Q And so you were not chief at the time thatthis matter was heard last winter and spring of2015 and '16? A That is correct. Q Have you had a chance to study the mattersrelating to this application since you've become chief? A Those matters specific to the firedepartment, yes.

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MR. SHEPRO: I would just ask to admitExhibit 1, the chief's curriculum vitae, certainlysubject to cross if anybody wishes to do so, and toproffer him as an expert in fire operations andadministration based on his many years ofexperience. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Do we have amotion to put Fire District Exhibit 1 into evidence? MEMBER LAKE: I'll move. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Do we have asecond? MEMBER FALK: I'll second. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: All in favorsay aye. (Ayes heard.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: All opposed,same sign. (No response.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: It is moved intoevidence. (Fire District Exhibit 1 admitted intoevidence and attached to the transcript.) Q Chief, have you studied the application ofMaxxam for a special use and the list of proposed

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conditions that Maxxam has submitted to the County? A Yes. Q And I'd like to go through those with youand ask if you -- your comments on them from thestandpoint of the Fox River fire department. First, just -- I know this is in the record,and I don't want to belabor it, but for the benefitof the new Board, could you very quickly tell usapproximately the size of the district in terms ofpopulation and area? A Our district serves approximately 25,000residents over a 38-square-mile area. Q Do you know by any chance about how manyhomes that represents? A No. I'm sorry to tell you I don't know. Q We don't calculate it that way? A We don't track as far as fire protection thenumber of residences. Q Could you describe the current facilities andapparatus of the department as we are here tonight? A Yes, I could. We currently operate fromtwo fire stations. Station 1 located at 34W500 CarlLee Road, that would be on the east side of theriver off of Route 25.

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Our second station is located at40W361 Illinois Highway 64, and that is serving thewest area of the district. Q That's what's been referred to as the Wasco -- A Wasco -- it's technically referred to asStation 2 now. Q I think in prior testimony they may have haddifferent numbers -- A Correct. Q -- but Station 1 is now the Carl Lee RoadValley View station? A Right. Q And Station 2 is the Wasco station? A That's correct. Q What apparatus and equipment does the firedistrict maintain at those stations? A At each of the two stations, we have what'sknown as a fire pumper, a fire engine. We also havean ambulance in frontline service. We also have awater tender, which is like a tanker that bringswater to fires, and also a grass fire truck. So that would be our primary pieces ofapparatus. At Fire Station 1 we also have a reservefire engine and reserve ambulance and two cars.

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Q And what is the condition of that apparatus? A That's in good operating condition, but wehave some issues as the fleet is aging, increasingour maintenance costs. Our most recent purchase wasa used apparatus, and it was a dealer demo. Ournext closest fire engine is a 2010, I believe, andthe engine that's in reserve status I believe is a1999 fire engine. We also acquired an ambulance recently, andthat's a 2016 model. It was a dealer demo. Thenext ambulance after that is a 2013 ambulance, andour reserve ambulance is a 2000 ambulance. Our water tenders are both 2011 vehicles.Our brush fire trucks are both 2010 vehicles. Q And how many calls did the Fox Riverdepartment have in the most recent year-ended? A We just completed the 2016 totals of1,344 calls. Q And approximately, if you know, how many ofthose calls were life -- sorry -- were related to anambulance as opposed to just a fire response? A The State Fire Marshal category foremergency medical services is 905 ambulance andemergency medical-related calls.

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Q So about two-thirds of all the calls? A 60, 68 percent roughly. Q What is the useful life of a typical ambulanceused by our fire department? A The typical lifespan is eight years ofuseful with five years as primary and three yearsreserve status. Q How do the ambulances currently operated bythe Fox River department stack up against thatcriteria? A The reserve ambulance should have beenreplaced a few years ago, and we're holding it asbackup in case one of our primary ambulances needsto go in for service. The next newest ambulance isdue to be replaced in 2019, and our most recentpurchase would be replaced in 2021. Q You said that was a demo? A It was purchased from an ambulance manufactureras a demonstrator model. It arrived with approximately5,000 miles on it when we acquired it. Q Did you or to your knowledge the board oftrustees consider buying brand-new equipment? A I wasn't involved in the decision to purchasethat, so I can't speak to that.

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Q Can you tell the Board, what is a concurrentor overlapping call? A A concurrent call is measured whenever we'redispatched to a single emergency for 911 service andone of the two fire stations is committed to thatcall and during that time a second call arrives inthe 911 system, and the second crew is then dispatched. During the period of service for both, itruns concurrent, we measure that. So during thattime both of our ambulances are out on calls. So weeffectively have no ambulances inside our38-square-mile area. Q And about how often does that occur -- didit occur in the past year? A We looked at that result -- we look at itevery year -- and it's approximately 13 percent ofthe time. MEMBER FALK: What about the reserve one? THE WITNESS: We don't have staffing forreserve. We don't have on-duty personnel. We dohave the ability to send EMTs in the fire truck ifthey're not committed on another call, but not acrew with advanced life support. Q That raises a good question. What is the

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staffing for the two stations and the emergencyservice vehicles at the present time? A Our everyday crew assignment is four personnelon duty at each of the two fire stations, a total ofeight firefighter/paramedics or EMTs, plus a shiftcommander, and plus me during the week. Q And is that 24-hour coverage? A We have 24-hour coverage 365 days a yearwith nine personnel. Q Based on your experience as a chief, what isthe optimal staffing absent financial constraintsfor an operation such as run by the district? A When you look at those numbers, theambulance crew and the fire crew, that is two andtwo. Optimally and recommended by NFPA standardsthe fire engine crew should be four personnel, andthat would be our second or backup ambulance crew inthat district if necessary. Q Is there a reason why there's not greaterstaffing at the present time? A Yes. The recent financial adjustment in ourbudget to accommodate service was necessary todownscale the number of on-duty personnel, and thatwas down in 2015, I believe.

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Q Now, of the personnel that are utilized bythe district, could you describe the differencebetween the contract personnel, part-time personnel,and the personnel employed directly by the departmentand those by others? A Sure. Many fire departments today use acontract firefighter service. Our services areprovided by Paramedic Safety Services of Illinoisbased in Rosemont. They currently provide us withfull-time firefighters under an agreement. Theyare -- they represent four of the eight on-dutypersonnel every day plus the shift commander who isalso a paramedic, PSSI, for Paramedic SafetyServices, Inc., a PSSI employee. The other four personnel on duty are part-timeemployees employed by the Fire Protection District,and those are occasional workers. They work for aflat hourly rate. Q What is the difference, if any, in the trainingand capabilities of the PSSI personnel versus whatyou've described as the part-timers? A They're equal and competent in all regards. Q So when you refer to them as part-time,that's not the same as say the part-time people that

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the department stores hire to come in at Christmasand ease the load? A No. In order to become a firefighter withour fire department, you must already be certifiedby the State Fire Marshal at the level of basicoperations, and you must also have at least an EMTlicense to work with us as a part-time employee. Q So are all of the personnel -- well,strike that. What is the emergency medical training, orEMT status for the on-duty personnel who would beoperating either the fire trucks or the ambulances? A It's based by shift in the number of peoplewho have achieved paramedic status. Our optimumgoal is to be able to provide all eight or nine ofthose personnel as fire and paramedic, paramedicbeing the higher level of training. However, someof our employees are firefighter and EMT, which is alesser level recognized by the Illinois Departmentof Public Health. So if I were to estimate it, of the eight onduty, typically seven are paramedics and maybesometimes six are paramedics. The other might be EMT. Q Are you familiar with the term ALS ambulance

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or ALS fire truck? A Yes, I am. Q Could you explain that for the Board? A ALS stands for advanced life support andmeans that the personnel on that apparatus aretrained as paramedics and have the necessary supporttools to provide advanced care, including cardiacdefibrillation, the necessary drug dosages necessaryto treat cardiac stroke, et cetera, and the toolsthat go along with practicing that trade. Q So if an ALS fire apparatus responded to acall, would it be able to provide the same amount ofon-site care as an ambulance? A Yes. The units that are certified areinspected annually by the Illinois Department ofPublic Health, and they have to meet the standardfor ALS by proving that they carry all of the sametools, equipment, and medications that the ambulancedoes. The one thing they can't do is convey ortransport a patient. Q You said before -- you talked about overlappingcalls. Are there assignment zones within the districtfor coverage by a certain station or personnel? A Yes. We divide -- to provide a prompt response

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we divide the town at Randall Road basically east orwest. So everything west of Randall Road would beconsidered Area 2; everything east of Randall Roadwould be considered Area 1. Q So Area 1 covers both sides of the river? A Yes. We do -- that brief pathway betweenthe river and Randall Road is in Area 1. Q Now, would there be circumstances underwhich the Wasco ambulance might be dispatched eastof the river? A Oh, absolutely. And the same is true forthe east ambulance to cover the west area. Q And what circumstance would cause that toarise? A When a call originates in the zone, theother ambulance is next up for calls in that zoneplus their own zone. So it goes from -- you'recovering roughly half and half. When one ambulanceis committed, you have one ambulance covering thewhole district and that's their responsibility. Q So if the ambulance from Wasco were outresponding to a call, and another call came in fromCampton Hills or Campton Township, that would beresponded to from the ambulance on the east side?

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A Correct, at Carl Lee Road. MEMBER MELGIN: I have a question. Whatother jurisdictions respond? Like Elburn there wasa fire and I saw four or five different districts'fire trucks in the neighborhood. THE WITNESS: We have mutual aid andautomatic aid agreements with all of our neighboringcommunities. In the case of a fire, those units aredispatched as soon as we know that it's a fire.It's called a general alarm response, and we'll getaid from Elburn, as well as the other communitiesaround us. For an ambulance call we would requestspecifically the closest town to respond based onthe emergency. So if it was in Area 2 and it was inthe southwest corridor, it would probably be Elburn.If it was in the northwest corridor, it would probablybe South Elgin as the two closest respondingagencies. MEMBER MELGIN: Thank you. Q Chief, could you describe -- you mentionedboth a mutual aid and automatic aid. Could youdescribe what they are and the differences, if any? A Absolutely. Automatic aid is kind of like a

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business agreement between two fire departments torespond as soon as there's a hint that there may bea higher level emergency such as a reported house onfire. All of the units that come from ourneighboring community fire departments have anautomatic aid agreement to respond. In many other cases when the fire or emergencygoes beyond that basic level and we require additionalresources, mutual aid is referred to -- is requestedusing the mutual aid box alarm system. Q That's what's called MABAS? A MABAS. Q M-A-B-A-S? A Yes. We're a member of MABAS, along withthe Kane County area response team. Q So in the case of automatic aid, they don'twait to be called? A That's correct. But that only applies tofires. We don't necessarily have an automatic aidagreement. Due to the unpredictable nature ofmedical emergencies over a 38-questionnaire-milearea, there's no way to predict. We would thenrefer to that as mutual aid. So if we had overlapping calls, and a third

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call came in, the on-duty shift commander would askthe dispatcher to obtain a mutual aid ambulance fromthe closest neighboring jurisdiction. Q So these 905 EMS calls would not be subjectto auto aid? A No. That's correct. We take our callsinside our district first and second and then relyon mutual aid for third calls. Q Now, if you've got both ambulances out, andone of them discovers when they get there thatthere's a broken finger or something like that, andanother call comes in from a heart attack within thedistrict, can you pull out from the lesser emergencyand respond to the other one? A No, we can't. There's a requirement underIDPH rules that you must treat the patient untilthey either get transported to the hospital or signa medical release. If we did that, it would beconsidered patient abandonment. Q And that's not permitted? A No. Q So in that instance either the call would gounanswered until you were finished, or you wouldhave to call for mutual aid?

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A There's never a situation where a call wouldgo unanswered. We would have the ability to possiblybreak away one of the fire engines to go on the callto start care, or if that wasn't a possibility dueto the severity of the two ongoing calls, the shiftsupervisor would then request the mutual aid ambulance. Q Would that require your approval, or is itsomething to be done by the shift commander? A It's a standard operating guideline that hasalready been trained with everyone. Q Could you tell us -- tell the Board brieflythe surrounding other district resources and stationlocations. Give a picture of where these are alllocated. A Okay. With regard to ambulance resources,as I indicated, Elburn would be the choice on thesouthwest corridor, and South Elgin would be thechoice in the northwest corridor. The station onRoute 47 in Elburn's fire district. Q Relative to the proposed facility, where arethe Elburn stations located? A There's a station in their main districtwhich is approximately 17 miles away from theproposed facility, and then there's a station that I

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just referred to on Route 47 which is approximately9 miles away from the proposed facility. Q How does that compare with our Fox Riverstations? A Station 2 is 3.1 miles from the Glenwoodfacility, and Station 1 is approximately 5.6 miles. Q Now, you also referred to South Elgin. A South Elgin, I don't have how many miles itis, but it is closer off of McDonald Road. So itwould probably arrive -- that would probably be thechoice for mutual aid to that facility. Q Closer than the Elburn station? A Closer than Elburn, correct. Q How about relative to the Fox River stations? A It's actually closer than Station 1 onCarl Lee. Q On the east side of the river? A On the east side of the river but not asclose as the Wasco station, as we refer to it. Q Now, Pingree Grove also has a fire district? A Yes, their closest station is at Plank Roadand Russell Road, and I don't have the mileage onthat. If for some reason South Elgin couldn'trespond, then we might request Elburn, or we might

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request Pingree Grove. Q Now, you've mentioned fire calls, as well.Typically when an emergency call comes in, what isdispatched by our department to that call if --well, first off, the dispatcher lets you knowwhether or not it is a fire call or an ambulance call? A Right. The type of condition that we'reresponding to is announced when we're alerted to thecall, whether it's a medical, or a rescue, or a fire. For medical conditions we send the ambulancecrew and the fire truck unless it's a -- what wecall an assistance or a check on well-being, whichwe might send the ambulance only. For a fire call we would send all of theresources for both stations. The opposing stationwould bring the water tank, tanker truck, and thefire engine, and the closest station would bring theambulance and the fire truck. Q You'd have a response from both stations -- A Correct. Q -- but one ambulance and -- A We'd have one ambulance, two engines, and awater tender at each reported fire. Q In those cases there also might be auto aid

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responses? A If it was a reported fire, yes, otherassorted -- NFPA recommends that 18 firefighters beassembled at a working structure fire within10 minutes. Q When the ambulance call is taking place, andyou have both the fire truck and an ambulance out,what personnel are left at the particular stationinvolved? A If it's an automobile accident, we will sendtwo fire engines and one ambulance. If there aremultiple patients involved, we'll send bothambulances and both fire trucks, leaving no one there. Q Under MABAS there are protocols where ifstations are emptied out that the mutual aiddepartments might not respond directly to theemergency but would fill an empty station. Couldyou tell us a little bit about how that works? A Under mutual aid agreement when the mutualaid agreement is activated and the surroundingcommunities are requested to respond, they'll sendwhat's called change of quarters. So we would getone change-of-quarters ambulance and onechange-of-quarters engine to protect the community

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while we were out fighting the structure fire. For any other emergency, such as a very badcar accident where we were going to be out with allof our crews, we can request without mutual aid aspecial call from a neighboring jurisdiction to giveus that same one engine/one ambulance to provide thecommunity with coverage. The goal is never to leavethe community unprotected, but the shift commandermakes that call based on the severity of wherewe're at. Q Now, if the number of calls within thedistrict either overall or emergency service callswere to increase over the current levels, what wouldbe the impact of that on your facilities' equipmentor operations? MR. KOLB: I'd like to object to thatquestion. Assumes facts not in evidence as far asnumber of calls increasing, and all this entire lineof questioning was the subject of many nights ofpublic hearing. We're hearing almost verbatimwhat's in the record. MR. SHEPRO: You can't be hearing it verbatimbecause we didn't have the fire chief at the lasthearing, and we didn't have the benefit of having

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that testimony able to be offered. So this is newtestimony. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: I will allow thequestion, but if we could move this along, we don'tneed every single scenario. We understand thatthere's mutual aid. MR. SHEPRO: I think we're done with that.I wanted to move now into the potential impact ofthe proposed project and on the conditions that theChief feels would be necessary in order to avoidadverse impacts on the community. So that is mynext area of inquiry. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you.BY MR. SHEPRO: Q Chief, let me strike that question, andinstead let me ask you to look at what I'm going tomark Exhibit 2, which is what is entitled "Anatomyof an Ambulance Call, Proposed Facility." Do youhave that document? A I do have that in front of me. MEMBER ARIS: Do we need to accept this intothe record? MR. SHEPRO: No. 2? VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: If he moves it

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we will. MEMBER FALK: Who offered this? MR. SHEPRO: We'll ask about that. (Fire District Exhibit 2 marked foridentification.) Q Can you tell us what this exhibit is, Chief? A This exhibit presents a timeline scenario ofambulance calls based on the scenarios that existevery day on ambulance calls. Q Based on our current staffing and availability? A Correct. This would be representative of anambulance call, a typical ambulance call for thistimesheet. Q And you and I prepared this exhibittogether? A Right. You asked me to prepare the factsthat are presented here for submission and I did that. Q Could you just briefly take us through whatthis says to you and what you believe that thisdemonstrates in terms of timing? A Okay. If you took a stop watch from thetime that we were dispatched to a 911 emergency, itrepresents the elapsed time of a call or the totalperiod of a call that we're committed to patient

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care and returning to full service in the community. It includes response time, time for patientevaluation, securing and packaging the patient fortransportation to a hospital, transportation to theclosest medical facility that's appropriate,transferring care to the emergency department andtheir staff, including reporting to the doctor whatwe've observed, initial care with the patient in theemergency room so that the nurses have a pass on.Then we must document and restock our ambulance,document the complete actions taken on the call forthe medical record and then drive back to the firestation. Q Now, the -- under "Response Time" it saysseven minutes. A The typical ambulance call would be targetedto arrive in seven minutes or less. Q And is that approximately the time it wouldtake to respond to the proposed facility from theWasco station? A From the closest facility, yes. Q And what -- all right. So as I understandthis exhibit, if you got there in seven minutes, itcould still take up to a total of 47 minutes from

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the time you arrive before the patient would be readyfor transport to a hospital if that were necessary. A Depending upon the severity of the call andthe request for service, yes. Typically somewherenear that is average. Q Now, once a patient has been transported toa hospital, is the crew just free to turn around andleave at that point? What else happens? A Well, once we arrive at the hospital, we haveto be directed to the patient's assigned room forcare. One of the paramedics who is typically thelead paramedic would meet with the doctor and explainwhat we -- what care we've given according to ourstandard medical operating guidelines prescribed bythe hospital and ensure the doctor that we followedthose steps. The other paramedic and the staff ofthe hospital would begin to move the patient into atreatment room and help get the patient secure forthe hospital. Q And so that could take, based on thesenumbers, potentially two to three hours from thetime the ambulance left the station until the timeit returned? A That's correct. The worst case scenario

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being three hours, that typically occurs after acardiac arrest where we have to, in essence, emptythe drug box and use all the facilities necessary totry and save the patient's life. A person who might be having a stroke, whichhas got a golden-hour window, would be rapid packageand transport so they could get treated by thestroke care unit. A patient having a cardiac emergency that'snot currently under full arrest condition would alsoreceive a very high level package-and-go treatment. So two to three hours is a good time toestimate how long we're not available. Q And if another call came in during that time,that would be an example of what you refer to as aconcurrent or overlapping call? A That's correct. MR. SHEPRO: I would like to ask thatExhibit 2 be admitted into evidence. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Do we have amotion to allow Fire District Exhibit No. 2 intoevidence? MR. KINNALLY: Madam Chairman, point oforder. Can we have some foundation for this document?

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I didn't hear any information with respect to whathe drew these conclusions from. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. Could you address that, Mr. Shepro? MR. SHEPRO: Yes. Q Chief, can you tell us for the items that arelisted here, what is the basis for the informationthat's reflected on this document? A As part of my familiarization with the firedistrict when I assumed my new duties, one of mymain concerns was to understand what we're capableof doing, and that included looking at EMS. EMS, oremergency medical services, is a good portion ofwhat we do, and to understand how severe -- or howmuch of an impact we have, I undertook an evaluationof our overall condition of response and thatincluded these numbers. Really to your point, this is my evaluationof the past four months. Q And the equipment in the "Equipment" column,is that based on actual experience? A My experience of EMS, yes. If you're askingabout the equipment necessary, yes, it's 25 years'experience as a fire chief.

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Q And with respect to the "Personnel"column -- by the way, "PM" stands for paramedic? A EMT paramedic or EMT-B either/or. Paramedicwould designate the preferred personnel as a paramedic. Q And that column simply reflects the personnelnecessary for the particular piece of equipmentthat's indicated in the previous column? A That is the indicated response that we putinto our running assignments for emergencies, yes.It's part of our standard operating guidelines. MR. SHEPRO: I would renew my request atthis time. MR. KINNALLY: Madam Chairman, I just have acouple of questions. How many calls did you look at, Chief? THE WITNESS: I looked at approximately300 calls. MR. KINNALLY: And they're all ambulance calls? THE WITNESS: Correct. MR. KINNALLY: Okay. That's all I wanted toknow, Madam Chairwoman. Sorry to interrupt. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Do we have amotion to put Fire District Exhibit 2 into evidence? (No response.)

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VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Hearing nomotion, then it is not put into evidence. MR. SHEPRO: May I submit it then as anoffer of proof? VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Mr. Kinnally,any suggestions? MR. KINNALLY: I think he has the right tosubmit it as an offer of proof. It doesn't meanthat the Zoning Board is going to consider it ifit's not been put into evidence. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: We will acceptit as an offer of proof.BY MR. SHEPRO: Q Have you studied the impact of the proposed --well, yeah -- have you studied the impact of theproposed facility on the operations of the Fox RiverFire Rescue District? A To the best of my ability using theinformation that was submitted in previous testimony. Q And have you formed any opinions as to whatyou believe the potential for additional -- if any --for additional emergency service calls that would begenerated as a result of this facility? A The fire department had previously testified

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up to 120 calls per year. Q And have you -- A I've used that number as my guideline forthe measured impact of the services, which isapproximately a 15 percent increase in our currentcall volume. Q And do you have an opinion as to what theimpact of that increased call volume would be on thefacility's equipment and operations of the district? A The immediate impact would be -- MR. KINNALLY: I have an objection. I'dlike some basis for the testimony before he givesthe opinion. I haven't heard anything yet. All Iheard was 120 calls. I don't know where they camefrom. Again, it's a foundation objection. MR. SHEPRO: Well, I think there's -- Q You're referring to testimony that waspreviously entered into the record in this case? A Prior testimony by Board PresidentRobert Handley indicated that it would be a roughnumber. MR. KINNALLY: There was no basis for thatopinion, either. So I'd like to know the basis ofthe 120 calls. Where did it come from other than

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what Mr. Handley uttered? Is there anything else? THE WITNESS: No. It's impossible topredict the amount of impact based on the inabilityto ascertain patient numbers. MR. KINNALLY: Thank you. Sorry to interrupt.BY MR. SHEPRO: Q If the number of calls reached 120 per year,what would -- ambulance calls, do you have an opinionas to what the impact of that would be? A Yes. My professional opinion would be thatit would impact a number of overlapping concurrentcalls, whereby, ambulances would be out from bothfire stations more frequently than they are currently. Q And you said before I believe that everycall would be answered. How would that -- anincreased number of calls affect the response timeto those calls? A If the call was for service in the Glenwoodproperty, the closest ambulance would be the Wascostation ambulance. A second call in the westernarea would be answered by the east side ambulance.So that impact could exist 120 or fewer times. Q Chief, let me ask you -- and I don't rememberthe exhibit number but -- well, I wanted to read to

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you some of the conditions that were offered onNovember 9th in a letter from Maxxam Partners andask if you have views as to the impact of thoseconditions on the fire district, if any. MEMBER ARIS: Excuse me, point of order. We're looking at new evidence, not evidencethat was previously cited. Do we have that evidence --do we have that information as new evidence? MR. SHEPRO: Well, as far as I know, theNovember 9th, 2016, letter from I think it wasMr. Kolb that listed conditions and I believe whichwas made an exhibit on January the 10th. We havecertainly not had an opportunity to comment on thoseconditions or present any testimony with respectto them. MR. KINNALLY: It's one of the conditions.It's right behind you there, Condition No. 9. Ibelieve Mr. Shepro is trying to address that conditionwith the Chief. This would be new evidence. MEMBER ARIS: All right. Thank you.BY MR. SHEPRO: Q Actually, let's start with that. Do you seethat condition? A Yes. I've read it previously. I'm familiar

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with it. Q I'm not going to ask you about whether or notthat's enforceable because that's not really your area.In your opinion, if that is agreed to and performedby Maxxam Partners, would that satisfy all concernsthat you would have about the impact of this facilityon the fire district? A Not all concerns. Q What concerns would remain if they have agreedto pay all of our fees for EMS calls? A Given the uncertain nature of the number ofcalls that exist, it wouldn't be an adequate amountto sustain additional funding for staffing. Q How about for new equipment? A If there was a separate agreement to purchaseequipment, it would depend on what the equipmentthat was being presented. An additional cardiacmonitor would have a great impact. It would help usto begin advanced life care from the fire engine.However, the cost of a brand-new ambulance is$250,000, which is not likely. Q And how about the cost of a new fire truck? MR. KOLB: We object, move to strike thoseopinions from the record for lack of foundation

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based on the uncertainty of EMS calls. There's nofoundation for those opinions. MR. SHEPRO: There's no -- VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: I'm going to allowit as -- I'm going to allow the objection. It's myunderstanding as someone who has fire protectionwhere I live that it isn't the responsibility of oneresidence or business to pay for the whole district,and I feel like that's what that testimony isdriving at. I don't think it's relevant to this petition. MR. SHEPRO: If I may, Madam Chairman, thepurpose of that question was not to suggest that anyone person or entity was responsible but simply toplace in the record what the cost of additionalequipment is. And I guess we may argue later abouthow that affects this particular petitioner, but ifthe fire department needs a new ambulance, that'spotentially an impact, and the cost of that ambulanceI think is relevant. They're certainly free toargue that it's not his responsibility, but I thinkwe're entitled to put that in evidence in the record. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: But you didn'tframe the evidence simply as this is what a new

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ambulance costs; you framed that evidence to thequestion about assumption of increased calls withthis facility. So I think you did directly tie itto one particular business. MR. SHEPRO: If I did, that was not myintention, and I would like to rephrase the question. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: You may rephrase.BY MR. SHEPRO: Q Chief, what is the current cost of a newambulance? A Approximately $250,000. Q Now, you testified I think earlier that thedistrict had purchased a demo. A Correct. Q And what was the cost of that? A If my memory serves me, the amount was$170,000. Q So there are options available to the districtshort of going to the showroom and buying a brand-newvehicle? A Yes. That's correct. Q And the reserve ambulance that you testifiedto, what was the cost of that? A If we were to replace it with a new ambulance

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in 2019, it takes approximately a year to build; itwould have to be ordered in 2018, and depending uponmanufacturers' price increases brand-new would beabout $250,000. Q And do you have knowledge of what it couldpotentially cost to simply go out into the marketand buy another used vehicle? A My experience in the past is that I've beenable to successfully acquire similar vehicles thatFox River purchased at -- depending upon age,condition at a reduced amount. Q I mean, I take it that that would be avariable reflecting the age of the vehicle, thecondition of the vehicle, and so forth. So there'sno one answer for that kind of a purchase? A No. Q Now, the fees that are charged for EMS servicesby the district, what are they designed to cover? A That helps us recapture the use of ourequipment and put it back to work for future purchases.It also helps us to put aside funding for things likereplacement cots, cardiac monitors. Q Based on your experience -- VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: I'm sorry,

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Mr. Shepro, I hate to interrupt. Do you know abouthow much longer the questioning will be for thiswitness? I did not anticipate that it would bethis long. MR. SHEPRO: I'm sorry. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: We do want toaccommodate the large number of people that camehere tonight. MR. SHEPRO: I'm almost through with thisone, but I have one more exhibit which is therequested proposed conditions on behalf of the firedistrict. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. Q Well, in fact, why don't we move on to that.One final exhibit there which is entitled "ProposedConditions to Maxxam's Special Use," do you see thatdocument? A I do. MR. SHEPRO: I take it that would be FireDistrict Exhibit 3. (Fire District Exhibit 3 marked foridentification and retained by the Board.) MR. SHEPRO: I believe counsel has it, as dothe County and the Board members.

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VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: We do.BY MR. SHEPRO: Q Chief, I just want to take you very brieflythrough these because I think they are self-explanatory in many ways, but can you describe whatthis document is? A This document appears to be items that thedistrict and Maxxam had discussed as to help usbecome capable and responsible to respond to theirfacility. Q And I'm not going to ask you about thefinancial aspects of this because I think that willbe covered by another witness. Could you look atNo. 1 and tell the Board, please, why -- what thatcondition is and why you think it's important thatit be a condition to any grant of a special use? A Yes. The Glenwood School has a tremendouslycapable water system, and to be able to continue toutilize that water system for fire emergencies inservice to the community is very important. We havea relationship with the current Glenwood Schoolcompany to utilize that water system for fires inthat neighborhood and pretty much all of the westernjurisdiction.

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Q So right now it is currently being used aswe have requested? A Yes. Q So it would not be any new additional burdenor requirement on the potential applicant withrespect to A? A With respect to A, as long as we're stillable to do that, that would be great. Q With respect to B, what is the reason forthat request? A As we know, the taxpayer funding for thereal estate property lags by one year, and this is atransition payment to help us offset and prepare foradditional costs. Q I'm sorry; I was referring to 1B where itsays "Improvements to Water Supply Access." A Okay. The paved access to the principal roadtraversing the facility allows for a hard surfacefor our very heavy water tenders to be able tosecure their source of water, and that speeds up theprocess of water shuttle and continues to perform ina reliable fashion. Q And do you know -- how big a difference --or how big a distance is involved from the principal

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road to the fill hydrant area? A It's less than 300 feet to the principal fillarea which is underneath the water tower behind theone building. Q Again, I think you've already covered Item 2. Could you look at Item 3 and tell us thebasis for that request? MR. KOLB: We'd like to object to Item 2referring to 2014 and 2012 respectfully, 2013,as well. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Does counselhave a response as to those dates? MR. SHEPRO: I think the objection is welltaken. I would like to reflect that we would changethat to the current year. And I thank you for thatobservation, Mr. Kolb. A Item 3 is directly reflective of ourresponse to the facility with EMS/ambulance service. Q And -- VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: If I may, onItem No. 3, what is -- as a person who is not familiarin depth with the fire district, what is -- whatdoes the fire district gain from an agreement withMaxxam that they would utilize the ambulance and

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transport services of your fire district for allemergency transport rather than they just place theemergency call and whether it's your service, or amutual aid, or an auto aid responder -- I'm not surewhat that does in the agreement. THE WITNESS: As a life safety professional,it ensures that the people that are stricken on thatproperty receive emergency care in a timely manneras opposed to a private ambulance or another ambulancecompany that would have to respond from severalmiles away. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: So the firedistrict would not like Maxxam to hire a privateambulance service to relieve pressure on the firedistrict's resources? THE WITNESS: I don't know. I haven't beenable to ascertain by the previous testimony if thatwould be something that would enhance or not. Wedon't know how many -- what the arrangement is forhow emergencies are dictated to us. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. MEMBER MELGIN: I also have a question onthe water supply. How many times have you had to use the water

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supply for emergency purposes? THE WITNESS: That's a good question. Infour months I haven't had to utilize it. However,I'm familiar with every time there's a fire in thatzone, based on meetings with my staff that everytime it's a structure fire of significant proportionwhere there are active flames, that facility isutilized on the west side. MEMBER MELGIN: But do you think it would befrequent enough that you would have to have a specificroad for your vehicles? THE WITNESS: That's different than the itemthat was discussed, a separate entrance or a pavedsurface. MEMBER MELGIN: Because of the weight ofyour emergency vehicles? THE WITNESS: There's an area of the propertywhere we fill up which is basically gravel whichover the years has sunk into the dirt, and a heavyfire truck would sink. So the request was to makethat a hard surface so we could fill adequately asopposed to a second row. This is just a small areathat we would want taken care of. MEMBER ARIS: Do you know when was the last

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time you actually had to use that water source? THE WITNESS: No, I don't. I can't testifyas to the exact date that it was used. MEMBER ARIS: Also, did you construct this,or is this -- THE WITNESS: No. MEMBER ARIS: -- formatted an earlier time,the actual exhibit? THE WITNESS: Proposed conditions were preparedprior to my arrival here. MR. KINNALLY: Point of order. She'slooking at Exhibit FD3 for the record. MEMBER ARIS: Right. We haven't acceptedthis as an exhibit yet. MR. KINNALLY: I didn't say that. I justsaid you're looking at it. MEMBER ARIS: Right. MR. SHEPRO: Point of fact, Madam Chairman,I prepared this before the last meeting inconsultation with the Chief and with Mr. Handley.And if you want to swear me in to say that, I will,but this is not intended to be evidence. This isintended to be our request for conditions, which Ithink is something very different.

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VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: I agree. Itwouldn't be -- we are accepting other interestedparties' lists, so I would consider this aninterested party's list. MR. SHEPRO: That's all this is and I'msimply asking the Chief where appropriate to explainwhy we are making that request. MR. KOLB: We stipulate to this list and askyou to take it under advisement so we can move on. MR. SHEPRO: Fair enough. MR. KOLB: We're not agreeing to the termsand conditions. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: I appreciate thestipulation. We did have one question from a Boardmember about Item No. 2. What approximately doesthat payment look like in terms of dollars? MR. SHEPRO: Well, I'd have to look at thetax bill, but essentially, it would be whatever thetaxes would be that would be payable in the followingyear based on the current year assessment. MR. KINNALLY: Approximately $336,000 per year. MR. SHEPRO: Not to the fire district. MR. KINNALLY: I'm talking about the totalthat's the value -- sorry -- I said the total value

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on the tax roll the testimony has been approximately$336,000. I don't know what percentage, but thatwas the testimony previously. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. Did you have any other questions? MEMBER LAKE: Just as a comment, I know thatthere is just a portion of that that's payable tothis district, which is the suggestion that thatwould be the transition payment. So is there anybodyhere from this district that is familiar with thetaxing body's annual income, which is usually equalto their budget? MR. SHEPRO: I'm not sure if I understandthe question. But, Mr. Kinnally, do you have theEAV that that number was based on? MR. KINNALLY: I do not. It's based on myrecollection from testimony in the record as to theamount. MR. SHEPRO: I think either I or Mr. Handleywho will testify next can testify as to the currenttax rate of the district, or we can certainlysupplement that with an exhibit. I mean, that's nota speculative number; that number is known. Currently the district's annual tax revenue

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is about $2.5 million. THE WITNESS: Yes, that's correct. MR. SHEPRO: And as far as -- we basically --calculating the number would be a simple mathematicalcomputation of the district's -- VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: I understand that.Nobody here has that number. I think that answersthat question; we don't have that number available. Is the Board -- with the stipulation offeredby petitioner, is the Board interested in a motionto accept this exhibit as is as recommended conditionsin lieu of further testimony from this particularwitness, or do you want to hear specific testimonyabout specific item numbers? MEMBER FALK: Do we have to -- it's aproposal to negotiate. THE COURT REPORTER: I can't hear you. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Member Falk saidit was a proposal to negotiate later. MEMBER FALK: Is that what you're trying toget at? MR. SHEPRO: I guess my request only wouldbe that it would be placed in the record on the samestanding as the other requests for conditions. I

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don't suggest that it is evidence of anything otherthan it is evidence of our request, and I think thatwas the basis for Mr. Kolb's agreement, as well. MR. KOLB: Right. We will stipulate that itis evidence of what they are requesting of you. MEMBER FALK: We'll put it in the record. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: So we have amotion to accept Fire District Exhibit 3 into therecord as the official recommendations from the firedistrict to the Board as what conditions toconsider. Is that correct? MEMBER LAKE: Second the motion. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Second. All infavor say aye. (Ayes heard.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: All opposed,same sign. (No response.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Motion carries. (Fire District Exhibit 3 admitted intoevidence and retained by the Board.) MR. SHEPRO: I would like to reserveExhibit 2, which is our chart. There was no motionthe first time. I guess I would ask that it be

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entered as a demonstrative exhibit simply toillustrate his testimony and for no other purpose. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Do we have amotion to accept Fire District Exhibit 2 asdemonstrative evidence of the testimony? MEMBER ARIS: I have a question ofclarification. Since we've already agreed to it asan offer of proof and put it in the record that way,do we have to rescind that in order to then put itin as evidence? I don't think it can go into therecord as both, can it? MR. KINNALLY: Well, it's already been refused. MEMBER ARIS: Right. But then it was askedto be entered as an offer of proof. MR. KINNALLY: That's the end of it. I don'tknow what the offer is now, but you've alreadyrefused it once, and you've said that Mr. Shepro onbehalf of his client could put it in as an offer ofproof, and I indicated it wouldn't be considered bythe Zoning Board because you didn't admit it intoevidence. MR. SHEPRO: Actually, I think you indicatedit probably wouldn't be considered by the ZoningBoard.

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MR. KINNALLY: That's what I meant to say. MR. SHEPRO: But now I am offering it for adifferent purpose than originally. I am askingsimply that it be admitted as a demonstrative exhibitthe same as a chart which is not substantive evidence,but it's merely to illustrate the testimony of thewitness. MR. KOLB: There's no difference. Sameobjection. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Do we have amotion from a member of the Board for that? (No response.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Hearing nomotion, it doesn't carry. MR. SHEPRO: All right. I have nothingfurther. MR. KINNALLY: Madam Chairman, I just wantedto make one point to you. With respect to theequalized assessed valuation for the Fox River andCountryside Fire Protection District as representedin the application by the petitioner, it's.0274449 percent. I don't know whether that'saccurate, but that's what the petitioner indicatedon page 13 of the rider to their application, which

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I believe was submitted -- well, it's in evidence. MR. SHEPRO: Mr. Kinnally -- or Madam Chairman,I think Mr. Kinnally has possibly confusedtwo different concepts. An EAV cannot possibly be .02. MR. KINNALLY: I'm not saying it's right. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: I think at thistime we'll just accept that no one has presentedpositive testimony as to what that number is andleave it at that. MR. SHEPRO: If that's the number that's beingcalled to the Board's attention, I think we probablywill have to pursue that later. MR. KINNALLY: Whatever. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Do you have anyfurther questions for your witness? MR. SHEPRO: I previously said that I had nofurther questions. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: I apologize. Mr. Kolb, do you have any cross-examination? MR. KOLB: No. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Mr. Carrara, anycross-examination? MR. CARRARA: No, thank you. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Mr. VanKerkhoff,

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any questions. MR. VANKERKHOFF: I had one question. EXAMINATION BY THE ZONING ENFORCEMENT OFFICERBY MR. VANKERKHOFF: Q Chief, thank you for your service to thecommunity. You mentioned you had a number of ambulancecalls, a number of concurrent calls, and a percentagefor the number of times that occurs. Do you happento know this evening the number of mutual aid callsthat the district has had to make for ambulanceservice to other districts in the last four monthsif that was included in your review? A I'm recalling from memory. It wasn't part ofmy review of the impact. Our average mutual aidgiven during the past four months is approximatelyeight times. So on average we go outside of thedistrict to a neighboring district eight timesper month. Q Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean for outgoingmutual aid calls. I mean when both ambulances havebeen on concurrent call and the fire district hashad to use the mutual aid agreement with anotherdistrict such as Elburn or South Elgin to respond to

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a 911 call within your fire district. A The amount of mutual aid received foremergency medical services over the four-monthperiod is a total of four. MR. VANKERKHOFF: Thank you. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Any questions,Mr. Kinnally? MR. KINNALLY: Very briefly, Madam Chairwoman,with your permission. EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COUNTY BOARDBY MR. KINNALLY: Q I just want to make sure I understand -- andI appreciate you coming tonight. In the vicinity ofthis facility, correct me if I'm wrong, there arethe following fire protection districts that provideor could provide either direct or mutual aid. Thatwould be South Elgin, Wasco, Elburn, Pingree Grove,and Valley View. Are those all fire protectiondistricts that could serve this particular facility? A As you referred to it, Counsel, Wasco andValley View are part of the Fox River -- Q I know that. I know. A So you mean stations? Q Yeah.

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A Okay. That's different than districts. Q Okay. Well, sorry. They're all districtsor they're all stations within districts? A Response areas. Q Okay. With respect to all of those, yourdistrict has mutual aid agreements? A We do. Q And, in fact, isn't the South Elgin facilitycloser to Glenwood than the Wasco one that you run? A I would have to double-check the mileage,but it appears to be the case. Q With respect to the increased calls that youtalked about in response to questions from Mr. Shepro,you didn't do any study or any analysis as to howthat 120 number came up; isn't it true? A That's true. Q Okay. So would the amount of patients thatMaxxam serves have a bearing on the number of callsthat you would expect to increase over a given year? A I could answer that if I knew what kind ofpatients I was getting. Q All right. Well, let me tell you what thetestimony is. Okay? A Okay.

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Q At one time it was 120 patients, and anothertime it's 96 patients. So it's somewhere betweenthose two numbers. So you've got like 100 to 120.Based on that -- and I assume that this facility isnot going to get online right away -- what would youexpect the incidence of calls -- it would increaseover a five-year period once it gets filled; is thata fair statement? A If there's an attrition rate to occupy thefacility to its maximum, that's a correct statement. Q And the only way you could come up with anumber is to look at that over a period of years;isn't it true? A We would do an analysis of its impact afterit's been up and running. Q So at some point the 120 calls is pretty mucha guess, isn't it? A Oftentimes in my business it is a guess. Q Okay. That's fair. MR. KINNALLY: Can you put up the picture ofthe facility? Q Chief, I've got one question that -- now, asI understand it, this is a one-way in facility. Isthat right?

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A That's correct. Q It's a pretty big piece of property, isn'tit, 120 acres? A Yes. Q A lot of buildings? A Yes. Q It's kind of like a small hospital, isn't it? A Or a college campus, yes. Q Sure. As a fire protection expert, wouldyou be more comfortable with two entranceways andexit ways to this facility than one? A Yes, I would be more comfortable with two. Q Why is that? Can you tell the Board? A My business is risk management along withlife safety, and should something happen in anatural disaster where the means of entrance to thatfacility was obstructed, there's always thepossibility that a second entrance would enhance ourresponse to that facility. I'm thinking of anatural disaster such as a tornado. MR. KINNALLY: Thank you, Chief. Nice tomeet you. THE WITNESS: Thank you. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: At this time if

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any representatives -- MR. SHEPRO: May I? VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: I apologize.Yes, you may redirect. EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE OBJECTORBY MR. SHEPRO: Q Chief, in response to Mr. Kinnally's questions,he asked you about that there were MABAS agreementswith every one of the surrounding districts. A Yes. Q But I think you testified previously thatMABAS agreements do not cover emergency medical calls. A Primary response calls are always theobligation of the district that hosts the risks. Sothere is no such thing as a mutual aid agreement tothe primary due into another community. It would beafter our resources are exhausted, then we wouldhave to implement mutual aid. MR. SHEPRO: Thank you. MR. KOLB: We have a follow-up question. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Sure. MR. CARRARA: We're short copies but I'llread it for the record. MR. KINNALLY: Can we identify it, Madam

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Chairman, with a number, please? VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: I'm just takinga moment to see what exhibit number was alreadygiven in the record so we can maintain consistencywith that. MR. KOLB: No problem. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Just a moment.It was previously entered I believe as J5, in fact,at previous hearings. EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE PETITIONERBY MR. KOLB: Q Chief, have you seen this letter before? A No. Q Do you want to take a moment to read theletter? A I've done that. Q All right. The letter appears -- MR. SHEPRO: If someone could possiblyfurnish me with a copy before he's questioned aboutit. I didn't bring the entire record with me,Mr. Kolb. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Mine is headedthat way. Thank you. MR. SHEPRO: Thank you.

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Q Can you tell me who the author is of thatletter? A This letter is signed by Chief Carl DeLeo,the predecessor fire chief before I joined thedepartment. Q How long did your predecessor fire chiefserve as chief in that capacity? MR. SHEPRO: I have an objection becausethat assumes facts not in evidence. A I don't know how long he was employed by thefire district. Q All right. The letter indicates -- who isthe recipient of the letter? A Mark VanKerkhoff. Q Mark VanKerkhoff? A Yes. Q And am I correct that the letter reads,"Regarding our conversation with Captain Sutherlandon December 22nd, 2015, referencing the seconddriveway at the Glenwood School, we have discussedthe issue using the old driveway at McDonald Road.We both agree that since the road was never used bythe school, we do not feel it would be required bythe fire district. We have reviewed the site and

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find that the entrance off Silver Glen Road does nothinder our operation at this time. If you have anyother questions or concerns, please contact CaptainSutherland." Are you saying you disagree with what's inthis letter? A No. I was asked my opinion about somethingwhich I answered to based on risk management. Thischief obviously rendered a different opinion. Q And why do you think such a second accesswas not required for the Glenwood School? A Probably because it was vacant. Q It was at one time operational; correct? A That was before his tenure. MR. SHEPRO: Now he's arguing with thewitness. I object to that. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: I'm not surethis witness is qualified to speak to Chief DeLeo'sintent or state of mind when he drafted this letter. MR. KOLB: We just move to enter this intoevidence. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: We recognize it'salready in as Exhibit J35 from the previous hearings. MR. KOLB: Thanks.

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VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. Anyother redirect? MR. SHEPRO: Yes, on this letter. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Do you have aquestion on this letter? MEMBER MELGIN: On something else. I have aquestion when you were talking about the number ofvisits that you would expect. Do you have nursing homes or assisted-livingfacilities in the district? THE WITNESS: Currently Fox River andCountryside does not. MEMBER MELGIN: Does not have any? MEMBER FALK: They don't. THE WITNESS: We don't have nursing homefacilities like assisted-living facilities and thenature, that's correct. MEMBER MELGIN: Thanks. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Mr. Shepro. EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR OBJECTORBY MR. SHEPRO: Q That letter says that DeLeo is stating itwould not be required by the district. Do yousee that?

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A I do. Q And Mr. VanKerkhoff -- I think -- maybe itwas Mr. Kinnally's question. You simply stated thatin your opinion from a risk management standpoint itwould be desirable to have it? A That's correct. Q You did not use the word "required"? A I'm not saying that it's required, that itwould enhance life safety. Q So do you see any difference between whatyou said to Mr. Kinnally and what DeLeo said in hisletter? A I can't tell if this was his opinion on lifesafety. MR. SHEPRO: Thank you. That's all. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: At this time dowe have any representatives of units of localgovernment who have any questions for this witness? Mr. Blecker. MR. BLECKER: Harry Blecker, president ofVillage of Campton Hills. EXAMINATION BY VILLAGE OF CAMPTON HILLS PRESIDENTBY MR. BLECKER: Q Thank you for your time tonight, Chief Nixon.

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A Thank you. Q Just a couple questions so that I'm clear onthis. It may have been asked and answered, but I'djust like to real quick clear it up in my own mind. When the Station 2 ambulance is out on acall, and a call would come in from this districtagain, it would then be serviced by Station 1? A That is correct. Q Do you know the time it would take fromStation 1 to the Maxxam facility? A Conditions vary based on weather and time ofday. We estimate probably 10 to 12 minutes. Q And the time from the Wasco facility to theMaxxam is what? A Between five and seven minutes. Q So this is about double the time dependingon time of day, traffic, weather conditions? A Correct. Q When you send out an EMS, you said you sendout an ambulance and a fire truck? A That is correct. Q Do you also call for other assistance suchas police escort? A We don't. It's automatically assigned. We

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don't specifically request it. Q So, in other words, when you go out and --you receive a call at your station, whichever one itis, it's automatically requested by 911 center orKaneComm or whoever it might be that a police escortgoes out with them? A I'm not sure who is -- whose condition that is. Q So you don't know whether we send them outor not? A Oh, I'm familiar with that on many of ouremergency medical calls depending upon the policejurisdiction a police officer will accompany us. Q Do you know what the police jurisdiction isfor this facility? A I believe it's in the Campton Hills village. Q I'm sorry. It's not. A No? Q It is the Kane County Sheriff's Department -- A Okay. Thank you. Q -- which has limited access to here.Campton Hills would be the first -- VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: If you couldlimit your testimony. Do you have any furtherquestions of this witness?

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MR. BLECKER: No. I'm done. Thank you. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Do we have anyother representatives from units of local governmentwho have questions of this witness? Any members of the public have any questionsfor this witness? (No response.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: At this time Iwould ask Mr. Shepro how long he anticipates -- oh,I apologize, sir. Please step forward. MR. WAGNER: My name is Bob Wagner. I liveat 39W570 Kevin Court. I'm about a mile east of thefacility. EXAMINATION BY AUDIENCE MEMBERBY MR. WAGNER: Q I understand you haven't been in service allthat long, but first let me say thank you. And, second, my question relates to when theGlenwood School was in operation. Is there anyhistorical information on how many calls they weregetting? Because in my opinion living on Silver Glenthere were a lot. A I don't have that information immediately atmy disposal.

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Q Is it available? A Yes. Based on our reported data that weprovide to the State, I could research that. Q I think that might be valuable and I'll tellyou why. A Okay. Q You're speculating 120 calls. I'll tell youI think it was more like daily for a school. MR. KOLB: Objection, move to strike. MR. WAGNER: I understand. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: If you have anyquestions, we'll take public comment later. MR. WAGNER: That is my question. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. Yes, ma'am, please step forward. MS. BARTELS: Cathy Bartels. I live at6N779 Brierwood, about a mile from the property. EXAMINATION BY AUDIENCE MEMBERBY MS. BARTELS: Q My question to you is -- other than to thankyou for your service is, if you are on a call, andyou have to make time to get to the school or thefacility, do you just take the main roads? Will youtake Burlington to Silver Glen to the entrance, or

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are you going to cut through the neighborhoods? A It typically wouldn't be the case. We wouldstay on main roads because those are easier travel,higher visibility, and safer. Q Okay. And Silver Glen being a two-lanehighway -- well, so is Burlington -- but, you know,there's still kids out; there's people walking. Isthat -- you know, is that a problem? A Every time we respond to emergencies ourpeople are trained to be aware of the hazards nomatter what the road conditions are. So it wouldn'tbe much different for us responding to the schoolthan it would be to your house. MS. BARTELS: Okay. Thank you. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Yes, sir -- Iapologize. May I have a show of hands of anyoneelse who would like to ask questions of this witnessjust so we can budget time? I see one. Do I just see the one -- no.Okay. So this will be our last questioner. MR. HOLSTEIN: Mark Holstein, 6N865 Palomino. EXAMINATION BY AUDIENCE MEMBERBY MR. HOLSTEIN: Q You said you send out an ambulance and no

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matter what, you send out another vehicle from thefire department; is that correct? A Our standard response, yes. Q Good. And how many people are involvedin that? A Four. Q Total in both vehicles? A Yes. Q Okay. What would the cost of that be?Well, you got four guys, three hours, what does thatcost you? And what does it cost to take a vehicleout for three hours? A By law under the State of Illinois we'reable to collect $150 per hour for a fire engine. Q Okay. What about an ambulance? A Same. Q Okay. So that's $300 an hour times possiblythree hours; is that correct? A No. Both vehicles wouldn't be out forthree hours. Q Okay. That makes sense. So I think the petitioner has agreed to paythat -- is that correct? -- in that last number, payfor ambulance services?

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A That refers to, sir, a different agreementthat was yet to be entered into regarding ourpublished cost for EMS calls. That's different. MR. HOLSTEIN: Can somebody answer that for me? VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: There weretwo different reimbursement rates. MR. HOLSTEIN: I'm asking the petitioner,which is him, has agreed to pay all of those costs,and you're saying -- didn't you say you were goingto pay for the ambulance expenses? MR. KOLB: Petitioner has agreed toCondition 9. MR. HOLSTEIN: I'm just wanting to make surewe're all on the same page that if it is 900 bucksper call that they agreed to pay it. THE WITNESS: We have a schedule of costsbased on the emergency that's adopted by the fireprotection district, and the most recent schedule ofcosts is based on the severity, not the flat rate.The flat rate that I referred to is for compensationfor under the mutual aid agreement the value that wecould bill someone. MR. HOLSTEIN: I understand. But we haven'ttalked about how much it's going to cost the Village,

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and I assume we're not talking about that becausethey're going to pay it. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. Did you have any redirect, Mr. Shepro? MR. SHEPRO: I just have one or twoquestions with respect to that access road. EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR OBJECTORBY MR. SHEPRO: Q Chief, with respect to the possibility of asecond entrance, would that have to be a full-time,full-access in your opinion, or could it be anemergency-only like with a breakaway gate or somethinglike that? A I'm familiar with what they call turf blockswhich are buried into the sod to allow an ambulanceto transport over its surface without creating afull row. I'm familiar with that technology. Q So it could be used in the case of a trueemergency like a tornado blocking the other entrance? MR. KOLB: Objection. He's outside of thescope by the public. His redirect should be limitedto the last set of questions. MR. SHEPRO: I'm just attempting to clarifythe questions that were asked, and that's my final

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question I think. MR. KOLB: Same objection. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Seeing as how he'salready answered it, I'm just going to overrule it. Mr. Shepro, do you have an estimation of howlong your direct will be of your second witness? MR. SHEPRO: Considerably shorter but Iwould request -- VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: I'm going toneed a number. MR. SHEPRO: I would request a recess todiscuss that and see how much we can eliminate ofwhat I had intended to ask. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Yes. We willtake a recess at this time. It is approximatelyquarter to 9:00. We will come back at exactly 9:00.Thank you. (Recess taken, 8:45 p.m. to 9:03 p.m.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you allvery much for your patience this evening. Just to give you a brief overview of whatthe rest of tonight's going to look like, we arelooking for a hard stop at 10:00 p.m. to berespectful of everyone's evenings. Mr. Shepro has

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indicated that he has 5 to 10 minutes of directquestioning for his next witness. Of course, we'llallow time for cross and redirect. After his witness is excused, we will openit up to public comments. We will not finish thepublic comments tonight. It was our sincerest hopethat we would have started public comments well beforenow this evening, but adjusting to the testimony weheard tonight, we will start it tonight assumingthat the examination of the witness leaves time forthat, but we will not finish it. And we are verysorry for the inconvenience of not being able tofinish it tonight; we just don't want to be hereuntil 1:00 in the morning to do that. We will begin -- assuming we've gotten topublic comment and past the second witness, we willbegin with public comment on Thursday, and we willtake public comment for the whole evening if that'swhat it takes to accommodate everyone who hassomething to add to the discussion. I would say if you are here tonight, and youcan stay to see if the witness will allow time forpublic comments, and you will not be availableThursday night, I would ask that those residents get

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to go first tonight so they for sure get what theysay to say on the record. If you can come back onThursday, we would appreciate your time and youreffort to do so that we can accommodate as many peoplethat want to speak on this being able to speak atthese meetings. So with that I will turn it over to Mr. Sheproand his second witness. MR. SHEPRO: Yes, Madam Chairman. MR. CARRARA: Madam Chair, just one quickquestion, if I may. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Sure. MR. CARRARA: At prior meetings I think weheard the staff request opinions from the State'sAttorney. Are we going to receive those to have theability to look at those before you close publiccomment or the public hearing? Additionally, I believe there was supposedto be a water analysis report prepared stating thatthere wouldn't be any impact on the aquifer, and myquestion would be, are we going to be able to seethat and have public comment or questions on thatprior to closing the hearing? VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: I would ask

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Mr. VanKerkhoff to respond. MR. VANKERKHOFF: The answer is yes. MR. CARRARA: So that means we'll get themThursday and then not have the ability to review thembefore we have this meeting, or when does "yes" mean? VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Mr. VanKerkhoff? MR. VANKERKHOFF: Sure. I can address bothissues. I did discuss my staff comments on thenine conditions with State's Attorney's office.Mr. Kinnally may want to chime in, also, butbasically, they concurred with staff's assessment onwhether they were enforceable, might be enforceable,or not enforceable. And to the other issue a little morecomplicated answer, but the questions were raisedearlier in the previous hearings about the effectsof this particular use, and those responses are onrecord. But to summarize them briefly by my memoryis that the system is operated on an IEPA permit.There is a recommendation that hospitals would be ona public sanitary sewer system, but there is notanything specifically that regulates on a Statelevel the volumes in terms of pharmaceuticals into

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the system. That's just my brief overview recollection.There was no new evidence tendered by the petitioneror any additional comments from water resources otherthan that response which I believe is already in therecord. Thank you. MR. SHEPRO: If I may ask a follow-up tothat. I'm sorry. As I recall, as Mr. VanKerkhoff just said,there were different categories of those questions,and I think staff said in some cases that they didn'tthink they were enforceable, and I take it thatMr. VanKerkhoff's statement indicates that theState's Attorney agreed with that. With respect to the questions where theysaid they weren't sure if they were enforceable, wasthat also the response from the State's Attorney, orwere they more definitive positively or negativelyon the ones where you were in doubt? MR. VANKERKHOFF: They were not definitivelyone way or the other. It was more along the linesof there's really no way to predict what a judge ina court of law might rule in terms of those that I

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listed as being potentially nonenforceable. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Mr. Shepro, yourwitness. MR. SHEPRO: I would call Robert Handley. MR. CARRARA: If I can, Madam Chairwoman, atthe last meeting there was comments by Mr. Kinnallythat he would seek a -- staff's comments from thewater concerns, they would send those to thepetitioner. Petitioner assured us that Sheaffer& Roland would write a letter back to the ZBAanswering and giving all those assurances. So farall I've heard is Mr. VanKerkhoff giving some vaguereference to discussions that I don't know where hegot nor do I think it's a part of the record the ZBAcan consider. Again, I have looked over the Sheaffer report,and nowhere in there does it address the questionsthat were specifically asked by I believe it was theCampton Township, Mr. Miller. Unfortunately, I don'tthink he's here this evening -- I think he'straveling -- nor do I have access to the verbatimtranscript of what was promised you'd receive.Likewise, nor do I have a detailed transcriptshowing what Mr. VanKerkhoff's general recollections

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are on the conditions that have been offered. So ifthere's some way we could get that -- MR. KINNALLY: If you want to be argumentativeabout this, let me respond. Number one, we went to water resources. Wetalked to Ken Anderson and Mr. VanKerkhoff'srepresentation as to the permit for the facility isaccurate. We talked with the petitioner with respectto whether they wanted to produce any otherevidence. They said they didn't on that issue. Sothere's not going to be any other evidence on thatother than what Mr. VanKerkhoff just said. With respect to the conditions, they are asfollows -- there's our view with respect to theirenforceability. MR. CARRARA: And whose view is this? Isthis you as the County or you as the attorney forthe ZBA? MR. KINNALLY: I didn't say I was theattorney for the ZBA. I'm the attorney for theCounty, and to the extent the ZBA is part of theprocess, that's why I'm here. Do you want aresponse or not?

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MR. CARRARA: Yes. I just wanted to clarifywho you were responding for. Thank you, Mr. Kinnally. MR. KINNALLY: I'm responding for the staff.I'm responding to your question. With respect to Condition No. 9, we believeit's not enforceable. With respect to No. 8, we don't believe it'senforceable. With respect to Condition 7, we believe it'senforceable -- these are as written. 6, we don't think that's enforceable. Condition No. 5 has already been agreed to,so we believe that's enforceable. The private pay option, Condition No. 4, notenforceable. The no-outpatient-treatment condition in alllikelihood not enforceable. The no-expansion, our position on that is ifthere's going to be any expansion, they'd have tocome back to this Board in the future if they wantedto expand. And the donation of the Narcan, I assume itwould be enforceable if they don't donate it butit's a donation.

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So that's our response. MR. CARRARA: Thank you. MR. KINNALLY: You're welcome. Thank you, Madam Chairman. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: At this time -- MR. SHEPRO: I would call Robert Handley totestify. Mr. Handley has previously been sworn andtestified. You can swear him again if you want. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Sure. (Witness sworn.) ROBERT HANDLEY,having been duly sworn, testified as follows: EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR OBJECTORBY MR. SHEPRO: Q Would you state your name for the record andmake sure your microphone is turned on and keep yourvoice up? A Is it on now? Q Yes. Would you state your name and addressfor the record, please? A Robert, last name Handley, H-a-n-d-l-e-y,31W655 Percheron Lane, Wayne, Illinois. Q And you are the same Robert Handley thatpreviously testified in the previous hearings in 2016?

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A I think so. I'm a little older. Q What is your business or occupation? A I'm an attorney. Q All right. And you are currently thepresident of the Fox River and Countryside FireDistrict Board of Trustees? A That's correct. Q Mr. Handley, I want to ask you some questionsabout the financial condition of the district, andplease, my questions are intended to cover onlyevents which occurred subsequent to the adjournmentof the previous set of hearings prior to the CountyBoard vote in March of 2016. You understand that? A Yes, sir. Q All right. Could you tell us to the best ofyour knowledge the current financial condition ofthe Fox River Countryside District? A Well, it hasn't gotten any -- it hasn'timproved, let's say that. In fact, it's worseinsofar as unexpectedly we had to replace an engine,and we had to replace an ambulance within a fairlyshort period of time. We were unable to afford new equipment,obviously, because we don't have a capital improvement

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plan because we don't have enough revenue, so weleased used equipment. We leased a fire engine, andwe leased an ambulance and went about $600,000 or soin debt to do that. Q What was the form of the debt obligation? A Well, it's a long-term lease. Q And you said that the district doesn't havea capital improvement plan. Is that -- is there onethat is contingent on obtaining additional revenue? A Well, we're going to go out to referendum inApril, and hopefully the voters will see fit to passour referendum. Q If the revenue stays at the same level andthe referendum does not pass, are there currentlyreserves or revenues available to purchase additionalequipment? A No. Q Currently the district has bonds outstanding;is that correct? A Yes. Q And when are they due to be paid off? A Well, we have various bonds that are -- andloans that are outstanding. Are you talking aboutjust the bonds?

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Q Just the bonds. A I think after 2019. Q Does the district currently have a ratingfrom any bond rating agency? A We do. After -- after our financial problemsthat we had in the past, our bond rating was loweredto BBB-plus, and we just got a bond rating, and wewere very fortunate that it did not further slide.It's the same as BBB-plus, which is a testament toour ability to cut our costs and go with morepart-time people than we're really comfortable with.And I know the Chief would like to see us have lesspart-time people, but we've got to make do with whatwe have. Q Have there been any changes to personnelsince the winter of 2016 as a result of the financialcondition of the district? A Well, we did go more part-time than we hadpreviously in order to cut some costs. Q Now, as of your previous testimony in Ibelieve January or early February of 2016, thedistrict at that time had terminated its contractwith Public Safety Systems, Inc.? A We did. We were going to go to a completely

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part-time model. There was a public hue and cryagainst that, and we reversed it and went back tothe PSSI but not completely to where we were. Q So the number of full-time personnel wasreduced and replaced by part-time, as the Chief hastestified to? A Correct. MR. SHEPRO: I think that's all I have. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. Petitioner, any cross? MR. KOLB: We do not. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. Mr. Kinnally. MR. KINNALLY: Mr. Handley, I just have acouple of questions. Thanks for coming again. EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE COUNTY BOARDBY MR. KINNALLY: Q What's the annual budget for the district? A All in? Q All in. THE WITNESS: What are we at, Chief? A About 2.8 -- 2.5, 2.8, something like that. Q Is the lease that you mentioned with respectto the ambulance, is that a capitalized lease?

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A What do you mean by capitalized? Q Do you capitalize it on your balance sheet,or how do you account for it? A I think it's just a straight expense. Q And this referendum -- the Chief mentions inhis résumé that it's a successful referendum. Whatdoes he mean by -- do you understand what that -- A I'm not sure what's in his résumé. Q Well, it says he managed a successfulreferendum campaign to fund the delivery offire-based ambulance service in the community. A That's when he was in Antioch. Q Oh, I see. It wasn't when he was withyou guys? MR. SHEPRO: We can only hope. A We're hoping for a repeat performance. Q All right. I just wanted to be clear. Now all of the people that work for thedistrict are part-time, is that right, other thanthe Chief? A No. Q Okay. But it's a 120-person departmentconsisting of all part-time members? A No, it's not 120.

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Q That was in Antioch, too? A Yeah, that was Antioch. Q How many do you have, employees? A Well, I think that's in there if you lookdown further. Q 15 full-time and 22 part-time? A Correct. MR. KINNALLY: Thank you. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Staff, do youhave any questions of the witness? (No response.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Do we have anyunits of local -- I'm sorry. Mr. Carrara? MR. CARRARA: None. Thank you. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Do we haveanyone representing a unit of local government whohas a question for this witness? (No response.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Do we have anyinterested residents with questions for this witness? I see one. Please step up, sir. MR. SQUIRE: Thank you very much for yourservice and helping us protect the citizens ofKane County in our Fox Valley and Countryside Fire

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Protection District. My question -- VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: If you can stateyour name. MR. SQUIRE: My name is Jeff Squire. I liveapproximately a mile, a little less than a mile awayfrom the proposed facility. EXAMINATION BY AUDIENCE MEMBERBY MR. SQUIRE: Q My question for you is, do you have anyknowledge of how your budget compares to otherdistricts that have a facility like this in them? A No, I really don't. I'm sorry. Q Would you in the peers that you might havein your professional community have access to anyanecdotal sense of whether their budgets are greateror lesser than yours to address a facility withneeds like this? MR. KOLB: Objection; calls for speculation. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: If you couldrephrase that. I apologize. Q Would it be reasonable to expect thatinformation like that would be available with researchto understand what the budget of a fire protectiondistrict with this kind of facility in it would be?

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A I don't know how to answer that because abudget depends on, you know, not just one facilitywithin the district. I don't know that you couldsay, okay, if you have one facility like this, youneed a budget of a certain amount. It depends onwhat else is in the constellation. MR. SQUIRE: Thank you very much. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Any otherquestions? (No response.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: At this time thewitness is excused -- I apologize. Do you have anyredirect? MR. SHEPRO: No. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Okay. Thewitness is excused. Thank you. (Witness excused.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: At this time wewill open it up for public comment on any newevidence that was presented since these hearingsbegan on January 10th, 2017, and/or any conditionsthat you believe should be considered by the ZoningBoard for possible inclusion as a recommendation tothe County Board if it is approved.

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If you will not be here Thursday night,could you please raise your hand? (Hands shown.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: All right. Ifyou three could come up, you're going to be thefirst three tonight. So, sir, in the first row, ifyou'd like to step up. Yes, Mr. VanKerkhoff. MR. VANKERKHOFF: I just wanted to mentionto the ZBA there were two units of government thatmade staff aware of submittals that they wanted toenter into the record as exhibits. One from CamptonTownship -- Joe Miller could not be here tonight,but Dick Johansen is here in his stead as thetownship clerk -- and the Village of Campton Hills,and Village President Harry Blecker is here. So I guess it would be your call with themas to whether or not they'd be willing to hold thoseover to Thursday evening. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: I think since Ialready let this gentleman step up we'll hear hiscomments and then move -- I apologize for thatoversight. So if you could state your name.

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MR. MILLETTE: I could step back. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: If you don'tmind, that would be very kind of you. I just wantto make sure we get to those three individuals forsure tonight. So if someone from Campton Township is hereto present the document that Mr. VanKerkhoffreferenced. MR. JOHANSEN: Yes. I don't know if Joe canbe here on Thursday or not. So should we do this now? VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: I think we shoulddo it now. MR. JOHANSEN: Richard Johansen, CamptonTownship clerk. I have the statement of Joe Miller,trustee of Campton Township, who is out of town tooffer as an exhibit for the ZBA to include inevidence. I would also like to read about six paragraphs.It's a seven-page document, and I'm not planning onreading seven pages, but I would like to read aboutsix paragraphs. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: We would askthat -- we don't believe that a reading is necessary,as it will be entered into the record, and we do

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want to make time for public comment tonight. MR. JOHANSEN: Okay. Who do I give this to? VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: I believe you'rereferring to a document with "In the Matter ofMaxxam Petition" at the top. MR. JOHANSEN: Yes. "For the Special UseWithin the F1 District," that's right. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Do we have amotion to put this into evidence for considerationby the ZBA? MEMBER MILLEN: I move. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Do we have asecond? MEMBER ARIS: I second. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: All those infavor say aye. (Ayes heard.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: All thoseopposed, same sign. (No response.) MR. KINNALLY: Can we mark that as Exhibit G? VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. Ithas been accepted into evidence as Exhibit G. MR. JOHANSEN: Thank you.

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(Exhibit G marked for identification andadmitted into evidence, was retained by the Board.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: And the secondone I believe is from Campton Hills Township -- orCampton Hills Village -- I apologize. MR. BLECKER: Thank you. MR. KOLB: We would stipulate, as well, tothe written statement if it's in writing. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. If you could just introduce yourself. MR. BLECKER: Harry Blecker, president ofVillage of Campton Hills, and this is only twosentences, so I'll read it and submit the rest of itinto evidence. "Per the Zoning Board's request, attached isa list of conditions the Village of Campton Hillswould like to see included if the ZBA sees fit torecommend the approval of the special use permit forMaxxam Partners, LLC. "In no way should this be interpreted thatif these conditions are included that the Villagewill drop its objections to special use permit forthe proposed facility." Thank you.

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(Exhibit H marked for identification.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. Do Ihave a motion from the Board to move the letter fromCampton Hills with the attached suggested conditionsinto evidence as Exhibit H? MEMBER ARIS: I move. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Do I have asecond? MEMBER FALK: I'll second. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: All those infavor say aye. (Ayes heard.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: All thoseopposed, same sign. (No response.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: It has beenentered into evidence as Exhibit H. (Exhibit H admitted into evidence andretained by the Board.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: At this time ifthe gentleman would step back up. Thank you verymuch for your patience. MR. MILLETTE: Thank you. My name isMike Millette. I live at 3N297 Town Hall Road in

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Campton Hills. I am a Campton Hills trustee, butI'm speaking as a private citizen. However, I willrelate a few of my thoughts based on that serviceand also my 30-plus years as a municipal governmentemployee for the villages of Schaumburg, Lombard,Downers Grove, and currently Clarendon Hills. This is a tough thing for you folks, I realizethat. First off, there is I don't think anyone thatdoesn't have a first- or secondhand experience withan addicted friend, neighbor, family member. I cango back to when I was a kid, and one of my brother'sfriends was killed by a drug dealer, you know,serious stuff like that. So these comments don'tcome without some serious soul searching. The need is acknowledged. In an idealsituation we look at the comp plan, find out wherethis use would be good, maybe a medical researchzoning district, something like that. But that'snot where we're at; we're looking at the conditionsbased on the petition you folks have in hand. My first observation on these conditions ishow they were developed. I related my experience asa municipal employee. In the I'd say last 15 yearsor so sitting similar to where Director VanKerkhoff

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sits -- VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: I apologize. Ishould have sworn you. I'm sorry for interrupting. (Witness sworn.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you and Iapologize for the interruption. MR. MILLETTE: No problem, Madam Chairman. So in the last about 15 years my observationis that whenever a large, either physically largedevelopment or a significant change of use developmentcomes in, petitioners are being more proactive onreaching out to the community. They're not juststicking to whatever the radius of notification isrequired to the point where they have focus groups,they meet individuals, et cetera, et cetera, so thatwhen in this case a special use with attachedconditions comes in, they're not an omnibus type ofthing; they're not one-sided; they've been developedwith some sort of dialogue. These haven't. A little bit of cause forconcern, but that's just an observational thing. Finally, as I relate my thoughts to myexperiences specific to this, I may offer an apologyto you folks because if I voted differently four

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years ago on a previous petition, none of us wouldhave been here tonight or possibly the past fewmeetings. But I looked at the impact of what wasthen proposed and what's proposed now and specificto the special conditions. The concern I had then is a concern I havenow, as we just heard from Mr. Kinnally, theenforceability of some of them. We had similar,very similar conditions proposed four years ago, andI wrestled back and forth with how this would go down. My experience on how enforcement of specialuses go, if a petitioner or in that case resident orowner violates a special use, the first thing thathappens is Director VanKerkhoff or somebody fromstaff sends a notice for violation; there'sfollow-up calls; there's subsequent notices. Ifthere's still continued failure to comply, it goesto citations, potentially arbitration, and the bigend game would be the Circuit Court. And the reason I wasn't able to cast apositive vote for that petition and I would urge youfolks not to cast a positive vote for these conditionsis if this got to that level of enforcement, I don'tsee any Circuit Court judge then essentially evicting

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100 disabled persons to get the ultimate enforcementfor violations of the special use. So, as also Mr. Kinnally has said, I submitthat for your consideration to give whatever weightyou feel appropriate. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you verymuch for your time. The gentleman that was behind, if you wouldplease step forward. And if you can state yourname. MR. JAROS: My name is Ryan Jaros,41W608 Foxtail Circle. (Witness sworn.) MR. JAROS: Thank you, Madam Chair. Goodevening, Board. I will be speaking to Condition No. 5 on thepetitioner's list of conditions, specifically, thelacking security plan that was thoroughly discussedat the past 9 to 11 meetings, however many we'vebeen at now. The most basic of security measures likefencing, as we've heard, will not be included in theenclosed plan. Residents of the community feel thatthe facility should have not just the basic but a

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strong multilayered security plan for the followingreasons: The petitioner's security plan whichincludes light staffing, lack of fencing, and softmanagement of entry point, it fails to address thelikelihood of residents leaving the facility duringthe detox and rehab process. As discussed, the 911call records which are part of the public recorddocument this as a frequent occurrence, along withregular notations for missing persons, assaults,batteries, thefts, and disorderly conduct. Please review all 10 of the certified 911 calllogs that your predecessors on this Board previouslyreviewed in deciding to deny approval of thispetition. Petitioner's security plan is alsoinadequate to protect its own property patients andits neighbors from individuals on the outside ofthis facility who may attempt to enter through theprivately owned woods to the north or across theunfenced forest preserve lands that surround to thesouth and the east and the west. This stands to create a dangerous andunmanageable security situation. The petitionerproposes an invisible thermal fence, but that provides

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no visible deterrence to individuals coming acrossthe nearby properties in hopes of gaining access tothe powerful drugs stored inside the buildings.This is a very real risk. For reference on the risk of people attemptingto get into this facility, quickly review the publicrecord from December 15th, 2015, pages 286 to 289.Quickly, it's a testimony of a local resident withunique professional expertise in the matters ofsecurity of similar facilities. He was the formerCEO of a multilocation pain management clinic, andhe characterized the petitioner's plan as very softsecurity. He was quoted to say that, "This place isgoing to have the most desirable drugs on the planetin it. They're going to be delivered, stored, anddispensed on a daily basis. Considering that, Ithink it is very reasonable that the people livingnear the facility, even less proximate than I to it,have a very strong concern about the safety of thisfacility," end quote. So for me personally I urge you to pleaseread his full testimony again. Safety and securityof the community but also that of the patients insideis of the utmost importance. That's not being

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fearful; it's being responsible. Speaking of safety quickly here, let's speakabout the letter that Kane County sheriff submittedinto public record projecting that the facility willrequire those 100 to 300 combined police and EMScalls per year, requiring many lights-and-sirensresponses. The projected number is quite low whencompared to actual call volumes of a facility thepetitioner itself called a comparable property. This comparable property, another residentialinpatient, high-end, private-pay facility known asTimberline Knolls located in Lemont, Illinois, issimilar to the Maxxam property, and it also has theJoint Commission's gold seal. This facility onlyhas 87 beds, though, compared to Maxxam's 120 proposedbeds. One year Timberline Knolls generated 380 policecalls per -- police and EMS calls. If we extrapolate this call load, we willlikely be dealing with over 500 emergency calls peryear. This puts a tremendous strain, as we'veheard, on our shared community resources. The full public record contains informationregarding, again, the 911 calls from 10 additionalfacilities. All were similar than what is being

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proposed, all were small -- I'm sorry -- than whatis being proposed and all had similar finding. Itis important to note that each of the facilities werelocated much closer to police stations and hospitalswhich in turn is more beneficial for the patient andthe community. We have to face these facts. As a zoningmatter the Board does, too. It's unpleasant tothink about no doubt, but it's irresponsible toignore in making your decisions. The Kane County zoning ordinance requiresyou to deny special use if the proposed use will bedetrimental to or endanger the public health,safety, morals, comfort, or general welfare. Ithink it is abundantly clear that we -- that theproposed soft security plan and lack of physicalfence does pose a significant risk of endangeringthe public health, safety, and general welfare ofthe neighboring properties. The community as awhole will be less safe as police and ambulance aretied up responding to an overwhelming number of calls. This fifth condition does nothing to alleviatethese risks and concerns. These reasonable risksand concerns are specifically the reason why we have

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this zoning ordinance, and the petition fails tomeet them as required under said zoning ordinance. Please vote against this petition. Thank you. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you foryour comment. If the third gentleman who raised his handcould come forward. If you can please state yourname for the record. MR. PARASKEVAS: Constancinos Paraskevas. (Witness sworn.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. MR. PARASKEVAS: With regards to ConditionNo. 2, because the second condition mentions accessroads and access locations, it's important to notethat this topic was thoroughly covered and thepetitioner already stated that they were notproposing to make any changes of this kind. Sayingit again does not make it a new condition. If you look through the pages of publictestimony on this point, the actual zoning concernrelated to roadways was not changing the roadsinside the property or the access points to and fromthe school once you're on campus. The primary concern of residents who spoke

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on this topic of roadways and traffic conditionswere threefold: The remote location of the facility on ruralcountry roads, all roads leading to the site aretwo-lane country roads bordered by school bus stopsand characterized by long stretches of no-passinglanes and in many areas low shoulders. The shortestroute from the nearest fire station will takeambulances up Burlington Road and through theheavily residential Brierwood subdivision. Allroutes to a hospital -- and the nearest hospital is20 minutes away -- pass elementary schools, havedirect residential driveway access, and are oftenused by farmers moving combines, wagons, and slowmoving heavy equipment. Number two, this one for-profit business willgenerate a lot of dangerous emergency traffic inthese conditions. The Kane County Sheriff estimatedbetween 100 to 300 police and emergency callsrequiring lights and sirens to this one address peryear if you approve it. The president of the FoxRiver and Countryside Fire Protection predicted thatthe facility would require 120 to 140 EMS callsalone. Pair that up with rural curving single-lane

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roads with direct residential driveway access and inmany places low shoulders and no shoulders, roadsthat pass school bus stops and require travelingnearly 20 minutes to a hospital, and there you havean actual and more substantial traffic and roadwaysconcern. Under cross-examination the petitioner'sexpert admitted he thought there would be only 5 to10 emergency calls per year, not hundreds. A third point, when it comes to trafficsafety and congestion conditions, Kane County canlearn from the experience of other jurisdictions.It's not just a concern for people using thoseroadways and the general public, it's concern forthe patients who would enroll at the facility. Zoning decisions are unique in that they arefundamentally about proper locations. In Illinois22 of 23 Level 4 medically managed detox and rehabfacilities are colocated inside hospitals or arecolocated on hospital campuses and are locatedapproximately eight minutes away from a hospital onfour-lane roads. Contending with these road conditions -- youknow, it poses a danger to the public and to thepatients of the petitioner who need emergency

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hospital services themselves. Thank you. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank youvery much. May I see a show of hands who else wouldlike to speak this evening before the 10:00 hourarrives? If you could come up. Thank you. MS. HORNE: Hello. My name is Cathy Horneand I live at 42W461 Burlington Road. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. (Witness sworn.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. MS. HORNE: All right. I just did somedigging on the Internet, and under the traffic studyit said that with 120 beds -- and I know you saidthat it may not be 120 beds -- it said that between8:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m. through the weekdays there'sonly 20 employees, and between 2:00 and 10:00 there'sonly 22 employees, and between 10:00 p.m. at nightand 8:00 a.m. in the morning there's only 8 employees,and that's if there's 120 people there. So ifthere's less people there, if you don't fill thewhole 120 beds, how many employees is going to be

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there at one time to supervise these people? That'sjust one of the questions that I had. And then, also, I don't think Campton Hillsis going to benefit from this facility at all. Itcharges $1,000 a day, and most taxpaying citizens ofCampton Hills cannot afford that at all. It's outof our reach. So there's nothing that this facilitycan do to help any residents of Campton Hills. And like the one gentleman said, we've allbeen touched by someone with alcoholism and drugabuse. I bet if you got anyone to stand up in thisroom, including these people here, we've all beentouched by someone that's been addicted to drugs oralcohol at some point in our life. So it's not likewe're trying to discriminate against them. This isactually for the safety of the citizens ofCampton Hills that we do not want this facility inCampton Hills. And one of my other questions would be, howare you going to alert the citizens of Campton Hillsif someone does leave? I know you said that theycan probably get a car; they just say, "I don't wantto be here anymore" and they get a car. That's notalways going to be the case. They're going to want

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to get out in the middle of the night. They will.There's no way that you can prevent that. They justwant to go out for a couple of hours and do whatever,just walk around in the farmlands or just in thecommunities. How will we be alerted? I'm nervous; excuse me. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: You're doing fine. MS. HORNE: And, also, what is the name ofthe facility going to be? You've invested all thismoney, and I've not one time heard what is the nameof the facility going to be. No. 2 on your list, the special use permit,can you guarantee that there will not be anotheramendment to it if they do get granted this to openthe facility? Would there ever be another specialuse permit? Will we have to go through this againif they want to change it again if it does want tobe just insurance people and not private pay? No. 5, there's no fences. There's onlyeight staff members. If you have the 120 bedsthat's full, like I said, what's going to happen tothe community; how are we going to get alerted? And who is Maxxam Partners? I mean, I knowyou're one of -- you're listed on the LLC, but there's

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four people off the list. Why aren't they here? No. 8, use reasonable efforts. What is"reasonable efforts"? Like what exactly doesthat mean? And No. 9, I think they went over that a lottoday. Like how are we going to pay for the costand recovery fees for fire and EMS? There will becalls. I mean, this is a real concern, and it'sgoing to cost the taxpayers of Kane County andCampton Hills money. There's no way around that. Just definitely I would not like to see thisin our community because it's not going to helpCampton Hills. There's nothing that this facilityis going to bring forth to help Campton Hills. Theonly thing I thought of as a way it could helpCampton Hills is if you hired people that live inCampton Hills and in Kane County. I know they wouldhave to have the right credentials, but I mean ifyou did that -- but I mean I don't even see thathappening. So thank you. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you verymuch for your time tonight. Who would like to approach next? Yes, sir.

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MR. RICHARDS: My name is Van Richards. I liveat 39W965 Cutwood Lane, St. Charles, Campton Hills. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. (Witness sworn.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. MR. RICHARDS: First of all, I want to thankthe Board for reading over 1500 pages of priortestimony. This is Hearing No. 12, I believe,before zoning boards. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: You arecorrect, sir. MR. RICHARDS: So I appreciate that. So you know from having read that recordthat the nine new things, only eight -- only one isnew, and that's the offer to buy the Narcan drug forthe County. But I want to address some questions thatthe Board asked that were very pertinent to the newtestimony that you heard at the last hearing fromMaxxam Partners. Now, the last speaker raised a very goodquestion. Who is Maxxam Partners? You have atremendous responsibility in approving or notapproving a facility of 120 beds that treats alcohol

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addiction, drug addiction, and in addition diagnosedmental illnesses as part of the petition. So the question of vetting was asked. "Doyou have any experience" was asked of Mr. Marco.Who is Maxxam Partners? A limited partnership, aDelaware corporation not registered in Illinois?Well, so far the only face that we have put to it isMr. Marco, and that face says "No comment," andthat's what happened last time. So the ability of the Board to vet thecompetence of the people who are asking to put thisfacility in has been seriously frustrated. In allthe nine hearings before this Board sat no singleperson from Maxxam Partners came up and testified asto their experience and to their ability tocompetently run this kind of facility with these drugs. So what did we learn? We learned that hehas no experience, and nobody connected with MaxxamPartners had any experience in doing this. So whenyou look at -- "Who are we giving this special useto," she asked. You're giving it to somebody thatyou don't know much about. He's a real estatedeveloper he says. He accredits himself because heworks very well with other people. He had, as he

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said today, a lovely conversation with you. Whatdid we learn? Can he work well with other people hewas asked by the objectors. You have theresponsibility of granting a special use to MaxxamPartners, and what do we know? Not very much. Thatalone should disqualify the special use. Others have spoken eloquently about theweight that it puts upon the community to answer theambulance, and fire, and police calls. The lastgentleman that spoke about a similar facility ofonly 80-some beds generated a lot more calls thanhave been testified to. But you have in the evidenceother facilities that have taken the burden of this --of the extra calls that are collateral and part ofrunning that kind of a facility. The facility doesn't belong at that location.It's not only unfair to the community; it's unfairto the people that are there. You know, one of themain reasons is it is not in close proximity to ahospital. All these facilities are close to hospitalsfor good reason. They're doing detox out there. We've been told that people are wealthy, andit will be comparable to Betty Ford, the best in thecountry. That's the promises that we have, but

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there's no meat in it. There's no basis for that. And Mr. Kinnally has indicated the number ofthese new -- they're not really new -- pledges thatthey want you to add on so that they can get approved,most of them are unenforceable. So I would ask youto validate the other Board who worked hard on thiscase and turn this petition down. Thank you. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you foryour time, sir. I believe I saw another hand in the back, sir. MR. RICHARDSON: My name is David Richardson.I live at 40W123 Oak Ridge Road, Campton Hills. (Witness sworn.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. MR. RICHARDSON: Madam Chairman, thank youfor allowing me the chance to address the Board. I am not a lawyer or a representative of anymunicipal government. I'm just a very concernedcitizen. I was told one time that the three mostimportant things to consider when buying a house islocation, location, location. After sitting throughthe previous Zoning Board meetings when Mr. Marcoanswered questions and provided testimony, it became

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clear to me that the issue was not location butrather risk, risk, risk. So many questions posed by the lawyers,representatives of municipal governments, privatecitizens, and even the Board itself were answeredwith two simple words, "No comment." I felt as though the tone of the meeting wasset when one of the lawyers asked Mr. Marco what hedid for a living. He responded with, "No comment."This prompted me to look at this issue from anentirely different viewpoint, one of risk. I returned to the County ordinances onzoning and looked at them from this viewpoint. Inthe interest of time I will only comment on a fewitems within the regulations, safety, propertyvalues, and roads that provide ingress and egress. As far as safety is concerned, Mr. Marco wasmore than willing to discuss at great length hisplan for an ultra-high-tech virtual fence. This wasone question that was not answered with "No comment."Obviously, it was critical. Fences have a primary purpose, to keep someoneor something in or to keep someone or something out.Such a high level of security, the need for such a

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high level of security caused me to jot down in mynotes "Risk." What is the danger that the fence isgoing to provide protection from? Risk. Property values. A study was referencedwhere property values in a similar study area wereunaffected by the proximity of an alcohol and drugrehabilitation center. I would imagine that studiescould be found in other similar areas where propertyvalues were greatly diminished. The only realanswer to this question, unfortunately, is history,not previous history but future history. Once againI wrote down in my notes the word "risk." Lastly, the roads that provide ingress andegress. It's a one-lane -- I'm sorry -- two lanesgoing in, one road of access. I road on it theother day just out of curiosity. It's pretty badlytorn up, and it hasn't been used since the GlenwoodSchool closed down, which I don't really recall whenthat was, but my issues are that there's only oneaccess road. Chief Nixon touched on this earlier, and Iactually went up to him after -- or during our break,and I told him that this is the first time in anyrecent meeting concerning this issue where the term

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risk was used. And thank you, Chief, for bringing thatup. Silver Glen is the only public road providingaccess to this area. There are confusing numbers of employees. Ihave jotted down 120 to 140 and then tonight I heardother numbers. So, actually, the additional numbersare not that important, but let's consider the trafficon Silver Glen consisting of ambulances, police andfire. There will be red lights flashing, sirens, bluelights. That can even fall under the critical --under the criteria of comfort and general welfare.For me it is risk, risk, risk. What I ask the Board to consider is thatsimple concept. When you measure the petitionagainst the ordinances that you are bound to do,consider the risk. Thank you. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you verymuch. Sir. At this time since it is exactly 10:00 wewill -- MEMBER ARIS: There's one more. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: I'm sorry. I'mtold there's one more hand I didn't see.

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Sir, you may approach if you can keep yourcomment to five minutes or less. MR. KOLB: Are these only the members of thepublic interested in speaking at all or just tonight? VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: I believe it wastonight. MEMBER LAKE: There's more. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: I think they'rewilling to come back. If you can state your name for the record. MR. CAPPELL: My name is Charles Cappell. (Witness sworn.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. MR. CAPPELL: I'm a recently retired professorfrom Northern Illinois University. I taughtquantitative methods and statistics for 35 years. Ihave a Ph.D. from the University of Chicago. I'vedone community analysis on crime rates, et cetera,so I was especially interested in the experttestimony that the petitioners offered. I testified briefly at the last hearings atthe time that those witnesses appeared, and subsequentto that I went back and did an in-depth analysis,looked at the reports, particularly the Poletti report

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and the Waller report that was introduced by theobjectors, and I reviewed the Hendrickson paper thatwas claimed even in Mr. Kolb's introductory remarks inthis iteration of the hearings as proving factuallythat there's no harm to the community from thesetypes of facilities. I analyzed all of these reports from the bestpractices rubric which is how I taught my graduatestudents. There's a clear set of best rubrics onemust follow to have a high validity in collusionsthat one reaches. To sum up, the Poletti report does not followbest practices of regression analysis to determinethe impact. In this code's data it artificially trims47 percent of the original cases that were selectedfor analysis because they were quoted inappropriatelyand misspecifies the model. There is, in fact, anaffect of proximity to the residential center thatinteracts with age of the dwelling, and these reportswill demonstrate for you -- you can quickly eyeballthem and see those justifications for my conclusions. So in short, the Poletti report -- the onegood thing, the best practices that Poletti didfollow is he included the data as appendices, and I

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was able to code those data and reanalyze the samedata that he provided. So the first report that I want in the recordis the report that I submitted to the Kane CountyBoard, but it didn't get into the Zoning Board recordbecause I did it subsequent to my oral testimony.It basically refutes the conclusion that there is nodamage to property values from proximity to thisfacility. The second report I analyzed was the Wallerreport. And I read that report as I would reading ajournal article saying does this meet best practices.I would recommend that that article be slightlyrevised so that it could have answered the questionthat was directly posed here, are there differenttypes of residential treatment centers that havedifferent effects. And that wasn't addressedexplicitly in that report, but that's a fix thatcould be done with one more regression run thatwould have answered that question. And on the face of it that report had veryhigh validity. It followed best practices much moreclosely. It analyzed 174,000 sales in the state ofVirginia, a huge dataset, which means it has very

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strong powers of generalization. So if I'm weighing evidence on the basis offact alone whether this is going to have a negativeimpact on the quality of life there, the evidencecomes down on the side of negativity, not as thepetitioners claim just because they say it overagain that they introduced expert witnesses. Thereports don't hold up when you examine them frombest practices. The last thing I'll say is the Hendricksonreport, which is the review of literature about theeffect of crime in proximity to these centers. In his testimony Dr. Hendrickson said he dida meta-analysis. Google meta-analysis and you willfind that a meta-analysis is a very rigorousstatistical procedure used in epidemiological datathat has been extended to social issues like crimerates and mental health issues. But it's veryrigorous. It involves a combination of studies thatuse statistical methods to get accrual estimates.Hendrickson doesn't do that. It's a mischaracterization that that is ameta-analysis. It is a literature review, and it's notquite a systematic literature review. A systematic

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literature review you explicitly list all of thedatabases that you search, you list the search termand protocol that you used to obtain the articles,and you evaluate the articles systematically fortheir internal validity using best practices doing agood study and their generalized ability. You read that literature review again, andyou'll see that he doesn't do that. He summarizesthe findings without a rigorous statistical or evena qualitative assessment of the validity of thosereports. So does crime go up or down? You can'ttell from the Hendrickson report. We don't know.You have to look and do your own study. So on the basis of fact alone, assessment ofthe facts of the matter, the claims, my report I thinkbears witness to the fact that those are not highlyvalid fact claims. In fact, they don't have validityat all that's claimed. The weight of the evidence is that this willbe a detrimental effect on housing values, and wesimply don't know -- one's left with common senseabout what is going to happen to subsequent socialdisruption and crime. So please take a look at these short reports,

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look at them in the context of the original material,and make a judgment about where the weight ofevidence really is. You can decide this matter onthe basis of these facts. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you, sir. MR. CAPPELL: Would you like to have thesein the record? VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Were they in therecord before the County? MR. KINNALLY: They were before the CountyBoard. They were not before the Zoning Board ofAppeals is my recollection. MEMBER FALK: He commented on that. He saidit wasn't part of us. MR. VANKERKHOFF: Correct. These documentswere not reviewed by the previous Zoning Board ofAppeals. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Were they reviewedby the Kane County Board? MR. VANKERKHOFF: They were brought to aCounty Board meeting when they voted on it, so therewas not time for County Board members to review itat the meeting prior to their taking the vote. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Okay. Sir, is

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it correct that there were two documents? Am Ilooking at the whole packet? AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Thank you. Heindicated two from near the back. Do I have a motion -- MEMBER FALK: Should we make copies andredistribute it? VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Yes. Do I have motion to put this into evidenceas an exhibit? MEMBER ARIS: I move that we put thetwo documents into evidence. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Do I have a second? MEMBER LAKE: I'll second. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: All those infavor say aye. (Ayes heard.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: All thoseopposed. (No response.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Motion carries.It will come in as exhibits -- MR. KINNALLY: I and J I think.

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(Exhibits I and J marked for identificationand admitted into evidence, were retained by theBoard.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: So the commentaryon the "Not In My Back Yard" article will be I, andthe analysis of Poletti will be J. MEMBER ARIS: I move we adjourn. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Before we moveto adjourn I would note that we have another meetingscheduled for this Thursday, January 26th, 2017, hereat the Kane County Branch Court, 530 South RandallRoad in St. Charles at 7:00 p.m. where we will beginwith public comment. We very much appreciateeveryone's patience here this evening. Do I have a second for the motion to adjourn? MEMBER LAKE: I second. VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: All those infavor say aye. (Ayes heard.) VICE CHAIRWOMAN MICHALSEN: Motion carries. (Off the record at 10:11 p.m.)

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CERTIFICATE OF SHORTHAND REPORTER

I, Paula M. Quetsch, Certified ShorthandReporter No. 084-003733, CSR, RPR, and a Notary Publicin and for the County of Kane, State of Illinois, theofficer before whom the foregoing proceedings weretaken, do certify that the foregoing transcript is atrue and correct record of the proceedings, thatsaid proceedings were taken by me stenographicallyand thereafter reduced to typewriting under mysupervision, and that I am neither counsel for,related to, nor employed by any of the parties tothis case and have no interest, financial orotherwise, in its outcome.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set myhand and affixed my notarial seal this 30th day ofJanuary, 2017.

My commission expires: October 16, 2017 _____________________________Notary Public in and for theState of Illinois

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Aabandonment1701:19ability1693:21,1702:2, 1714:18,1757:16, 1758:4,1766:10,1793:10,1793:15, 1803:6able1696:15,1697:12, 1707:1,1721:9, 1723:18,1724:8, 1724:19,1726:17,1752:14,1756:12, 1757:5,1757:21,1779:20, 1801:1about1683:13,1683:19,1683:20, 1684:2,1689:13, 1692:1,1693:13,1693:18,1697:21,1703:14,1705:18, 1708:3,1712:23, 1718:2,1718:6, 1718:14,1718:22,1719:16, 1720:2,1721:4, 1722:1,1723:11,1729:15,1729:23, 1731:1,1731:14,1738:13, 1741:8,1742:19, 1744:7,1745:7, 1747:16,1749:12,1750:17,1752:15,1753:24, 1754:1,1758:17, 1761:4,

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Transcript of Public Hearing Petition 4364 - Volume 12Conducted on January 24, 2017 1860

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