Parliament Explained

A podcast from the UK Parliament

Episode 5 ‘Making and Changing the Law’

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<<MUSICAL INTRODUCTION >>MEERA: Welcome to the fifth podcast in this series, “Parliament Explained”.

I’m Meera Syal and in this series I’m exploring exactly what happens in Parliament.

To make sure you never miss an episode, you can subscribe to the programme on your podcast app so that it downloads automatically every Monday.

Last time we heard how select committees can keep the work of the Government in check and help shape future policy. Today we’ll be talking about the legislative process – exploring exactly how laws are made or changed.

We’ll begin by finding out about draft laws, known as Bills – starting with what a Bill looks like and why there are different types of Bill. Then we’ll look in some depth at the set parliamentary stages one kind of bill, a Public Bill, has to progress through before it can become law. As we do this, we'll highlight those occasions when Parliament actively welcomes input from the public, or where it may have most effect. We’ll also explain why some Bills are more likely than others to pass all these stages successfully and become law.

After we’ve described the law-making process, 3

we’ll then consider the effect that changes in the law can have on individuals and on society – and we’ll hear about a series of short case studies.

But let’s begin with a question: why do we need new laws?

VOX POPS: “We’re in a very fast changing world and the

laws do need to change” “Conventions and cultures change, situations

change, and we become more aware of issues that people have perhaps with old laws”

“We need to make sure our laws keep pace with modern life”

“With the internet and technological advances… previously non-existent problems have come to the front now, so obviously you need more laws”

“Society today is changing so it makes sense that you regulate laws – times have changed”

“We need to change laws, reflect new relationships with other countries”

“Great strides are being made in medicine” “You have to make sure that the laws reflect

the people around you” “The more people move through the

generations - people have got different jobs…the economy changes, people’s house prices rocket, wages vary”

“If you believe in the nuclear family as a 4

major social unit, then your entire legal system might be based around the idea that people have two-person relationships”

“The ethical and demographic landscape of the country is constantly changing”

<<MUSIC ENDS>>MEERA:Pressure for a change in the law can come from any number of sources: an individual case that hits the headlines; a media campaign by a pressure group; lobbying by big industries or small business groups. Perhaps new medical research leads to a call for a change in the law; or a loophole that needs closing is identified by police or lawyers.

And of course, a newly elected Government may feel it has a legitimate mandate to make changes in the law if these were promised in its election manifesto. All of these factors and many others can lead to new proposals coming before Parliament. Because no matter who suggests changing the law in the UK, it is only Parliament that can actually make it happen.

In parliamentary terms, a draft law is known as a Bill. Only if Parliament approves a Bill does it then become an Act of Parliament.

Most Bills that come before Parliament are known as Public Bills. To tell us more about Public Bills we spoke to Katy Stout, Clerk in the House of

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Commons Public Bill Office.

KATY STOUT: Public Bills change the law as it applies to the general population. Parliament devotes most of its time in each parliamentary session to debating and scrutinising the Public Bills that are proposed by the Government.

Government Bills, which can start in the Commons or the Lords, are more likely than other Bills to make progress because government whips set the timetable for the Chambers, and they allocate more time for government business. – Although changes might be made to them along the way – they will normally get through all the required stages successfully and become law.

Backbenchers can also propose Public Bills. In both Houses of Parliament, backbenchers’ Bills are referred to as Private Members’ Bills to distinguish them from Government Bills. But because the timetable is set by the Government, very little time is set aside for Private Members’ Bills to make progress though, so although they make up the vast majority of new Bills each year in terms of number, only a handful of backbenchers will get a Bill past its very first stages.

MEERA: 6

There are other kinds of Bills, however. To tell us more, here is Nicole Mason, a Clerk in the House of Lords Legislation Office.

NICOLE MASON:Apart from Public Bills, the other types of Bill that come before Parliament are Private Bills and Hybrid Bills. These are few and far between and a different set of procedures apply to them. For instance, unlike most Public Bills which must normally be passed within a single session, a Private Bill or Hybrid bill can take several years to complete its stages and still become law.

MEERA: We won’t go into all the detail in this podcast, but here’s a brief definition of Private and Hybrid Bills to help us along:

*A Private Bill only changes the law as it applies to certain organisations or specific individuals. So, for example, a Private Bill might be required to extend the powers of a public body like a local council or to change the management of Transport for London.

*A Hybrid Bill – as the name suggests – has characteristics of both a Public and a Private Bill. It affects the general public but also has a significant impact on specific individuals or groups. For example, the High Speed Rail (London to West Midlands) Bill 2013-141 is a

1 Since the time of recording, the High Speed Rail (London to West Midlands) Bill has received Royal Assent,

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Hybrid Bill as it could affect the public in general, but could also specifically affect the people that live or work along the proposed route.

MEERA: So what does a Bill actually look like?

KATY: Bills vary massively in size and scope, but every Bill has a set format to it. To start with, every Bill has both a short title and a long title. The short title includes just the name and, if the Bill was introduced in the Lords, a reference to the House of Lords. This is how the Bill is generally referred to – an example would be the Childcare Bill [HL]2.

MEERA: The short title will also state the parliamentary session in which the Bill has been introduced.

KATY: The long title, however, should convey the purpose and the scope of the Bill.

NICOLE: So in the case of the Childcare Bill, its long title was:

*A Bill to make provision about free childcare for thus becoming an Act of Parliament (law). It is now known as the High Speed Rail (London to West Midlands) Act 2017.2 The Childcare Bill [HL] received its Royal Assent on 16 March 2016, thus becoming an Act of Parliament (law). It is now known as the Childcare Act 2016.

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young children of working parents and about the publication of information about childcare and related matters by local authorities in England.

Government Bills are drafted by a team of specialist lawyers who make sure the words and terms in the Bill are used precisely and consistently and that the Bill fits (or makes changes to any existing Acts on the same subject).This is to avoid any ambiguity or possible misinterpretation.

So, if a member of the Commons or Lords wants to make a change to a Bill they do this by proposing that words or sections of the Bill should be removed, replaced or added to the text. This is known as ‘tabling’ an amendment.

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MEERA:Now we know more about what Bills are, let’s find out how they actually make their way through Parliament. A Bill goes through Parliament one House at a time and must have passed all its stages in the first House before it can start its journey through the second. A Bill can start in either House, and the stages in each House are broadly the same. At the beginning of a session, government bills are divided up so there are bills starting in each House. This helps balance the work over a year!

<<MUSIC BEGINS>> KATY: At the start of a new parliamentary session, usually each May, the Monarch gives a speech that sets out the Government's main legislative programme for the year ahead. This will normally list all the major Bills that the Government intends to bring in but it may also indicate certain Bills that will be published first in a draft form.

MEERA: As we’ve heard, once they’re formally introduced, Public Bills go through roughly the same set stages of scrutiny in both Houses and it’s mostly Government Bills that complete all of these stages successfully.

The steps a Bill goes through allow for both general debate and detailed line-by-line scrutiny

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before the final text is agreed. During this process, the House of Commons and House of Lords have the opportunity to check, challenge and suggest changes to a Bill. Having said that, any changes made to a Bill by one House must also be agreed to by the other House before the Bill can be passed.

So let’s look in more detail at what happens to a Government Bill at each stage as it makes its way through Parliament. In this example, we’ll take a Bill that starts in the House of Commons, though as we’ve heard, many Bills start in the House of Lords instead. As we go through it, we’ll also point out the occasions when the public are most able to influence decisions that are made on its contents or progress.

The very first stage of the Bill’s passage through Parliament is...

*The First Reading

KATY: First Reading is the formal introduction of a Bill to one or other of the Houses, the House of Commons in our example. The Bill isn’t debated at this stage. It’s simply allocated an individual Bill number and ordered for printing.

MR SPEAKER:“...Presentation of Bill, Secretary John

Whittingdale”11

JOHN WHITTINGDALE MP:“Digital Economy Bill”

MR SPEAKER:“Second Reading what day?”

JOHN WHITTINGDALE MP:“Tomorrow Sir”

MR SPEAKER:“Tomorrow. Thank you”

- First Reading of the Digital Economy Bill , House of Commons Chamber, Tuesday 5 July 2016

MEERA: Next is…

* The Second Reading

JUSTINE GREENING MP: “I beg to move, that the Bill be now read a Second time.The background to the Bill is that the Government have worked tirelessly over the past six years to embed our school reforms…”- Second Reading of the Technical and Further

Education Bill, House of Commons Chamber, Monday 14 November 2016

KATY:

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This is normally the first opportunity for a Bill to be debated. It’s the stage where the overall purpose and principles of the Bill have to be agreed to and this is also when the major points of contention will often become clear.

Constituents can contact their MP before the Second Reading of a Bill to let them know their views and to ask their MP if they plan to support or oppose it. People with particular concerns about something in the Bill may ask for an appointment to meet their MP to explain in greater detail before it starts its Committee Stage.

If the MP is sympathetic this gives him or her time to table an amendment to the Bill which might then be discussed by the Public Bill Committee.

MEERA: The next stage is Committee Stage, where the Bill is considered line-by-line at its committee stage and this is the first stage where changes can be made to the Bill or new clauses added. Committee stage can take several weeks for a large Government Bill.

KATY: In the House of Commons, proceedings on Government Bills are strictly timetabled. A Public Bill Committee is usually appointed, made up of a smaller number of MPs, and they’re asked to look

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at the Bill in detail and to report back to the House by a certain date. The Government have an in-built majority on these committees, so those who want to make changes will more often try to negotiate and persuade the minister of their case at this stage, rather than try to force a change by voting.

Public Bill Committees often invite experts and interested groups to come and give evidence on the Bill before they start to examine it. Individuals or organisations who’d like to be invited can contact the Government officials responsible for the Bill. The public are also invited to share their views with MPs on the committee by sending in written submissions. All the details of how to do this are given on Parliament’s website.

Just occasionally, the Committee stage of a Bill in the Commons takes place in the Chamber, rather than in a committee room; this is known as a ‘Committee of the whole House’ and it means all MPs can take part. This happened, for example, with the EU (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill3 in February 2017…

TASMINA AHMED-SHEIKH MP:“On that basis, I hope we will have support on both sides of the Committee for the new clause.”

3 The European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill was granted Royal Assent on 16 March 2017, thus becoming an Act of Parliament (law). It is now known as the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Act 2017.

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JACOB REES-MOGG MP:“Could the honourable Lady clarify whether new clause 26 would effectively give the First Minister of Scotland, if she refused to agree, a veto over the exercise of Article 50?”

TASMINA AHMED-SHEIKH MP:“I am grateful to the honourable Gentleman, whose interventions are always astute. I refer him to the wording of the new clause, which refers specifically to “a UK wide approach to, and objectives for, the UK’s negotiations”.

Those are the Prime Minister’s words.”

- Committee Stage of the EU (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill, House of Commons Chamber, Monday 6 February 2017

MEERA: The next step is the Report stage

KATY: The Report stage takes place in Chamber after the committee has officially ‘reported’ the Bill back to the House. If changes have been made during the committee stage the Bill will be reprinted before it is debated at this stage. Report Stage in both Houses is an opportunity for all members to take part and vote on further changes and new clauses that have been tabled.

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BEN WALLACE MP: “Some time has passed since we last considered this Bill. There was, as honourable Members will recall, a great deal of cross-party consensus on it, both on Second Reading and in Committee, and I hope that we will be able to continue in that same spirit of constructive debate and healthy scrutiny today.

This first group of amendments concerns the extremely grave matter of gross human rights abuses or violations…”

- Report Stage of the Criminal Finances Bill , House of Commons Chamber, Tuesday 21 February 2017

KATY:In the Commons it normally takes place over just one or two days because proceedings are strictly timetabled. It’s generally at a Bill’s Report stage that the more significant or contentious issues are decided one way or another by each House. Those who want to make an important change to a Government Bill at this stage will need to work pretty hard to build up cross-party support if they’re to be successful in a division.

Members of the public and pressure groups can also lobby MPs ahead of the Report stage debates to encourage them to support a

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particular amendment or New Clause should it be put to a vote.

MEERA: And after Report stage comes Third Reading.

KATY: In the Commons, Third Reading is normally a fairly brief debate and final decision on whether to pass or reject a Bill in its entirety. When a Bill passes its Third Reading it’s considered to have been passed by that House.

MR SPEAKER:“The question is that the Bill be now read a third time. As many as are of the opinion say ‘aye’ [Cries of “Aye!”]. On the contrary ‘no’ [Silence]. The ‘ayes’ have it, the ‘ayes’ have it.”

- Third Reading of the Technical and Further Education Bill, House of Commons Chamber, Monday 9 January 2017

MEERA:Once a Bill has been passed in this way by the House of Commons, it then proceeds to the House of Lords, where a similar series of steps is taken. A Bill’s first stage in the Lords is also known as the First Reading.

NICOLE: As in the Commons, the First Reading of a Bill in

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the Lords doesn’t involve a debate. The Bill’s title is read out, and then a date is given for the next stage.

LORD SPEAKER:“The question is that the Bill now be read a first time. As many as are of the opinion say ‘content’ [cries of “content”]. Of the contrary ‘not content’. [Silence] The ‘contents’ have it.”

- First Reading of the Commonwealth Development Corporation Bill, House of Lords Chamber, Wednesday 11 January 2017

NICOLE: As in the Commons, the Second Reading is the main opportunity to debate the key purpose and principles of the Bill.

LORD BOURNE OF ABERYSTWYTH: “My Lords, I am delighted to be opening this important debate on the Second Reading of the Neighbourhood Planning Bill. Few of us here would disagree that our country is suffering from a serious shortage of housing. It is not a new problem, nor an unexpected one. We have not built enough homes in this country for a very long time...”- Second Reading of the Neighbourhood Planning

Bill, House of Lords Chamber, Tuesday 17 January 2017

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NICOLE:Any member can contribute to the debate, but in practice, only members who are particularly interested in that topic will usually take part. There’s no restriction on time taken (although in practice the Government Whips often put out guidance on how long members should speak) and no limit on the number of members who can take part.

So if people want to contact a member of the House of Lords about a Bill but aren’t sure which member to contact, they can start by looking at the list of speakers at Second Reading. It’s usually a good indication of who will be taking an active part in proceedings on the Bill in the Lords. If a member is actively involved at second reading, they will often stay involved through all the later stages, examining the bill front to back and proposing changes.”

MEERA: The Second Reading of a Bill in the Lords very rarely ends in a division. Almost always, the Bill goes on to its Committee Stage…

VISCOUNT YOUNGER OF LECKIE:“My Lords I beg to move that this House do now resolve itself into a Committee upon the Bill”- Committee Stage of the Higher Education and

Research Bill, House of Lords Chamber, Monday

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9 January 2017

NICOLE: In the Lords, Committee stage takes place as a sitting of the ‘whole House’ in the Chamber, although it sometimes takes place in the Lords Grand Committee Room, rather than the Chamber. Committee stage in the Lords also differs from the Commons in that there are no formal set time limits, although the Whips Office set days and dates for the Stage, and any member can take part.

Sometimes members will put down amendments to find out why parts of the bill are written in a certain way - for example, discussing a proposed amendment can force a minister to defend or explain how a section of a draft law will work.

BARONESS WALMSLEY: “I had been seeking to ban the use of Tasers by police in psychiatric wards, but since the Government feel that their use may sometimes be necessary, my amendment asks the Government to specify very clearly in regulations the exceptional circumstances under which Tasers should be used.”- Report Stage of the Policing and Crime Bill 4,

House of Lords Chamber, Wednesday 30 November 2016

If lots of amendments are put down, extra days 4 Since the date of recording, the Policing and Crime Bill has received its Royal Assent, becoming an Act of Parliament (law) on 31 January 2017. It is now known as the Policing and Crime Act 2017.

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can be added to the committee stage. Many members of the Lords have experience outside politics, which proves helpful if the Bill is in their specific area of expertise.

This means that the Lords can consider every part of a Bill, and they often do so in great detail.

MEERA: The next step is the Report stage. NICOLE: Again, the Lords have no formal restrictions on the time they can take to debate and scrutinise, although report stage is generally half as long as Committee. The Lords will sometimes spend many more days on this stage than the Commons can. Most votes on Bills in the Lords happen during Report Stage.

In the Lords, where there’s no government majority, it is especially important for a member trying to make a change to a Government Bill to build up support across the various parties and with the crossbenchers, to give them a chance of being successful in a vote on that amendment.

BARONESS CAMPBELL OF SURBITON: “Guidance is a step in the right direction, but it is not enough. I urge the Minister to reconsider Amendment 67. By accepting it, the Government will ensure that disabled people will enjoy the same right to travel as

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their able-bodied peers, and secure a truly inclusive bus network for all their citizens.”- Report Stage of the Bus Services Bill [HL] , House

of Lords Chamber, Monday 24 October 2016

NICOLE:Members of the public and pressure groups can get in touch with members of the Lords, particularly those with an interest in the issue being debated, ahead of the Report stage debates to encourage them to support a particular amendment or New Clause.

MEERA: And after Report stage comes Third Reading.

NICOLE: In the House of Lords, the Third Reading is a final opportunity to consider amendments, usually limited to tidying up the Bill, or allowing the Government to make good on commitments it made at earlier stages. Where earlier stages were about checking front to back and adding or crossing out sections, third reading is about housekeeping and plugging loopholes - crossing t’s and dotting i’s.

MEERA: Of course after the Bill has been passed by one House then the other, there may still be points of difference between the two Houses that have to be worked out. If the Bill was passed first by the Commons but then was later amended by the

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Lords, those Lords amendments have to be put to the Commons too, and vice versa.

NICOLE: This stage is often referred to as ‘Ping pong’ because it can involve some to-ing and fro-ing between the Commons and the Lords as they try and reach agreement on the remaining points of disagreement on a Bill before it can become law. A Bill may go back and forth between the two Houses several times before one House or the other agrees to compromise or decides not to insist on a change. If both Houses insist on their change or disagreement with a change (without suggesting a compromise) the bill is lost and can’t become law.

MEERA: And finally, once a Bill has been passed by both Houses, with no more amendments to resolve, the Bill receives its Royal Assent.

KATY: Royal Assent is the Monarch’s formal agreement and essentially it’s this which turns a Bill into an Act of Parliament.

NICOLE: Today, Royal Assent is regarded as more of a formality because although, in theory, the Monarch could refuse to give their assent, in fact this hasn’t happened for over 300 years.

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MEERA: Before we finish our description of the stages of a Bill we should also mention that, since 2015, the Commons has been using a new procedure to make sure that when legislation only applies to England (or England and Wales) it has the consent of most MPs from English or English and Welsh constituencies. This has involved an extra motion being passed by just these MPs before a Bill’s Third Reading or at the ping pong stage.

<<MUSIC ENDS>>

Next, let’s bring Katy and Nicole back to find out about Private Members Bills. As I said earlier, Private Members’ Bills are those Bills that are introduced by backbenchers, rather than by the Government. So is the procedure different for backbench Bills?

KATY: No, if they’re to become law, Private Members’ Bills must pass through all the same stages in both Houses as any Public Bill. But they’re not given much time and in reality unless they have the support of the Government of the day or widespread support across the parties in both Houses is gathered, they are unlikely to make much progress.

MEERA: So why do backbenchers bother to introduce a Bill at all?

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NICOLE: Well a lot of backbenchers do bother! In fact, well over a hundred Private Members’ Bills are introduced each year by backbenchers in the Commons or the Lords. Because even though the majority aren't likely to become the law of the land, they can often get a debate in the House of Lords and can still be influential in raising the profile of a particular issue. And often they’re just one step in a longer campaign which may in the end bring about change.

MEERA: So if a backbench MP in the House of Commons wanted to introduce their own Bill, how do they go about it?

KATY: There are three ways they can do this. Firstly, by ballot. At the start of each new parliamentary year, all backbench MPs are invited to enter a ballot.

The few MPs who’re lucky in the draw can each bring in a Bill of their choice. Ballot Bills get the lion’s share of any time that’s set aside for debating Private Members’ Bills in the Commons and of the very few backbench Bills that are successful each year, most have generally started this way.

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MEERA:Another way MPs can introduce a Bill is…the Ten Minute Rule.

KATY: This rule allows a backbench MP to stand up and make their case for a new Bill in a speech lasting up to ten minutes.

Sometimes this followed by a speech from another MP who disagrees but then the House is asked to decide whether or not the Bill should be introduced. If the MP is successful, the Bill is taken to have had its First Reading. MEERA: But most backbench Bills are simply introduced in the Chamber, without any debate, and these are known as Presentation Bills.

KATY: The MP gives advance notice to the clerks of the short and long titles of the Bill they plan to introduce and then it’s formally presented in the Chamber just before the start of the main business, after questions and statements.

NICOLE: In the House of Lords, members who intend to bring in a Private Members Bill can also take part in a ballot at the start of the parliamentary year. This is simply to decide the order in which Bills are introduced because when time is scarce it

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can be an advantage to introduce a Bill early in the session. If a member wants to introduce a bill after the ballot has taken place, it’ll be introduced after all the bills in the ballot, and is very unlikely to get a second reading.

Of course, any Private Members Bill that manages to complete all its stages in one House still needs to be considered by the other House. So if a Private Members Bill is passed in the Lords, for example, it then needs an MP to agree to take it forward in the Commons, and vice versa.

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MEERA: Here’s a little challenge for you. Find the list of Bills currently making their way through Parliament at services.parliament.uk/Bills. Choose a Bill that’s of interest and note the stage it’s at. By looking at who is sponsoring the Bill and how it was introduced, see if you can predict how likely the Bill is to be successfully passed by Parliament.

<<MUSICAL BREAK>>

MEERA: We’ve heard about the hurdles a Bill has to overcome before it can become law and the steps that Parliament takes to ensure that new laws have been thoroughly scrutinised. But now let's consider the impact that legislation can have on people’s lives, using a series of short case studies. The Children and Families Bill was a Government Bill which began in the House of Commons. It set out to reform the law in areas such as adoption, children in care, children with special educational needs, the family justice systems and workplace arrangements for people with parental responsibilities.

While all areas of the Bill were checked and debated, when the Bill got to Report Stage in the House of Lords, a significant and high-profile amendment was put forward.

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This related to smoking in vehicles that carried children, an issue that had been widely campaigned on by a number of groups, including the British Lung Foundation. Members of the House of Lords argued that smoking in the confined area of a car was especially damaging to children’s health because the toxic fumes are more concentrated than in an open space. Although the Government raised some concerns about how the law could be enforced, the House of Lords voted in favour of including this new amendment in the final text of the Bill.

When the amended Bill returned to the Commons, MPs voted to accept the change proposed by the Lords. As a result, smoking in vehicles that carry children became an offence under the Children and Families Act 2014 and was brought into force in October 2015. For our next case study, let’s hear directly from the writer, director and activist Shango Baku. He arrived from in Britain from Trinidad in 1962 and faced discrimination just trying to find a home.

SHANGO BAKU:“That was a rough time for me. I had to face certain realities, and some of those were in housing. You know the ads in the shop windows still said "No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs". I think laws that outlawed discrimination in public places were very important, and they came about because of

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the challenges that we face as immigrants and the response that we had.

So there were all these excuses that allowed racism, covert racism, to go on unchallenged. Once that legislation was in place, people found it a lot harder to do what they had been doing before. I think it still went on to some degree because laws don't change the minds of the people, not immediately anyway but when there is legislation in place, people think twice and they begin to think "Am I wrong?", "Am I doing wrong?", "Are these people really, are their rights being violated?", "Can I do something different?", "I have to think differently, otherwise I would fall foul of the law". So I think that legislation changed things positively for the better.”

- ‘My Life as an Immigrant in 1960s Britain’ #YourStoryOurHistory UK Parliament archive video

MEERA: The 1965 Race Relations Act made it illegal to ban persons from certain public places such as swimming pools and hotels on the basis of their skin colour. Since the 1965 Act, the UK Parliament has continued to pass laws that make the lives of people across the UK more equal, but it’s an ongoing process. Most recently, the Equality Act 2010 consolidated and replaced

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existing anti-discrimination legislation. It outlawed discrimination on the grounds of nine ‘protected characteristics’, one of which is race.

Wherever you live, no matter who you are or your background, laws passed by the UK Parliament will affect and shape aspects of your life.

<<MUSICAL INTERLUDE>>

MEERA: Passing new laws is one part of Parliament’s job, but its ongoing work can include looking at the impact of laws that have already been passed. Finding out how new laws are working in practice is an important part of Parliament’s role in the continued scrutiny of the work of the Government. In Episode 4, we looked at the work of select committees. Let’s now find out how one of these committees, the House of Lords Equality Act 2010 and Disability Committee, went back to look at how one protected group, disabled people, were faring under the new Equality Act, passed a few years earlier. They found that the Act had, in fact, been failing disabled people.

Let’s let Baroness Campbell of Surbiton, who sat on the Committee, explain.

BARONESS CAMPBELL OF SURBITON:“Throughout the period of the committee

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over nine months, we began hearing from disabled people that it simply wasn't working in practice.

It was felt that disabled people's voices had become very silent, whereas before, when it used to be the Disability Equality Duty, disabled people were very much involved in public services, access, planning within their local authorities. But the red tape challenge seems to have squashed that. Now, if you want to get something right it's so much better to involve disabled people, for they are the experts in their own situation. We call it 'nothing about us without us'. And then, normally, things get put right”.- Disability report, Equality Act 2010 and Disability

Committee, House of Lords (BSL) archive video

MEERA: In this example, it was public evidence that was essential in helping the Committee see where and how this particular piece of legislation needed improvement.

<<MUSIC BEGINS>>

In this episode, we’ve taken a small snapshot of how legislation impacts our lives.

We’ve heard examples of how the law can be significant in changing the behaviour and the mind-set of society, and we’ve heard examples of

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where further work is needed. We’ve also discovered that our own expectations of what we want for our society now and in the future can help to redefine the law, for example making it illegal to smoke in vehicles that carry children.

Don’t forget, if you have questions about lawmaking in Parliament, you can call the House of Commons Enquiry Office for free on 0800 112 4272 or the House of Lords Enquiry Service on 0800 223 0855. Callers with a text phone can talk through Text Relay by calling 18001 followed by either of these relevant full numbers.

And if you’d like to hear of Parliament in action, you can hear the Prime Minister’s Question Time Podcast by searching for UK Parliament on SoundCloud.

Thanks for listening to “Parliament Explained”. I hope you’ve enjoyed the programme.

Our final episode is all about you. We’ll be finding out how the public can use petitions to get an issue onto Parliament’s agenda and looking at some of the other ways for us all to have our say and play a part in the work of our Parliament. To make sure you never miss an episode, you can subscribe to the programme on your podcast app so that it downloads automatically every Monday.

Until then, I’m Meera Syal...

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<<MUSIC ENDS>>

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