Parliament Explained Episode 4 Scrutiny: Select Committees

Parliament Explained

A podcast from the UK Parliament

Episode 4 Scrutiny: Select Committees

Script

MEERA:

Welcome to the fourth podcast in this series, Parliament Explained. Im Meera Syal and in this series Im exploring exactly what happens in Parliament. To make sure you never miss an episode, you can subscribe the programme on your podcast app so that it downloads automatically every Monday.

Last time we heard how members of the Commons and Lords can use Questions and Debates to check and challenge the work of the Government. Today, were going to talk about a third tool of parliamentary scrutiny: select committees. Well find out how these committees work in both the Commons and the Lords, and why theyre considered to be one of the most effective methods for holding the Government to account and, ultimately, influencing their decisions.

VOX POPS:

Select committees are appointed by each House to perform a particular task of scrutiny on its behalf and to report back

This task might be to investigate a specific issue in depth, examine a new proposal in detail, or monitor the work of a particular government department closely

Select committees often ask experts from outside Parliament and members of the wider public like us to help them in their work by sending in their views or experiences

And because theyre made up of members from across the political parties their recommendations cant easily be dismissed by the Government

MEERA:

Select committees usually have between 8 and 15 members and these are all drawn from the backbenches. They meet in committee rooms rather than in the Chamber.

Their members come from across the different political parties and, in the House of Lords, those with no party affiliation, too. As well as the select committees in each House, there are a number of joint committees made up of both MPs and members of the House of Lords.

Select committees have the power to call in members of Parliament, civil servants and experts for questioning and to demand information from the Government. Their findings are published in a report and the Government is expected to respond to any recommendations that are made. In the House of Lords, select committee reports usually get a debate in the Chamber or in Grand Committee which takes place in another room in the House of Lords. As we heard last time, a government minister or spokesperson has to answer the points raised.

In a moment, well hear about the impact of a recent select committee inquiry in the House of Commons, but first, lets look at select committees in the Lords.

Lord Whitty:

"Could I perhaps open and allow you to expand on my specific questions. We had the Prime Minister's comments last week which moved things on, we had the debate in the Commons which may or may not have moved things on. Could you perhaps start by telling us how you see the sequence of events before Article 50 ..."

Lord Price:

"This is as you say extremely complicated. In my mind there are five dimensions that we are operating on ...."

Oral Evidence Session of the EU External Affairs Sub-Committee and EU Internal Market Sub-Committee on the impact of Brexit on future trade between the UK and the EU, Thursday 13 October 2016

MEERA:

Select committee investigations in the House of Lords, look into public policy, proposed laws and government activity. They take advantage of their members professional experience and expertise to carry out investigative, subject-focused work.

Whereas Commons committees generally focus on individual government departments, Lords committees focus on broader, cross-cutting issues. Think of the Commons committees as vertical and the Lords as horizontal.

Permanent Lords Select Committees are based around six themes:

VOX POPS:

The European Union Committee, which considers UK government policy in respect of the EU. Its made up of seven sub-committees, each looking in detail at a different aspect of the UKs relationship with the EU - they are now conducting linked inquiries into the Brexit process

The Science and Technology Committee, which investigates policies that are, or ought to be, informed by scientific research as well as technological challenges and opportunities

The Communications Committee, which looks at public policy related to the media and the creative industries.The Constitution Committee, which among other things, examines the constitutional implications of all public Bills brought before the House of Lords

The Economic Affairs Committee, which investigates current economic issues and reviews the performance of the economy; and

The International Relations Committee, which considers the UKs foreign relations, hearing evidence from ministers, officials and international experts

In addition to these permanent committees, one-off or ad hoc, committees are also appointed each year whose work is generally completed within one parliamentary session.

This allows the House of Lords to investigate and scrutinise issues that arent in the remit of any of the permanent committees, and provides an opportunity to examine and respond to current pressing issues. Recent ad hoc committees have investigated issues ranging from the charity sector to financial exclusion.

Were going to hear now about the work of one of these shorter-term, ad-hoc committees which was appointed in 2015 to investigate the issue of social mobility and the transition from school to work, from the Chair of that Committee, The Rt. Hon. the BARONESS CORSTON.

BARONESS CORSTON (direct transcription):

Well it was called the Social Mobility Committee but actually we were looking specifically at what happens when young people move from school to work. Because theres a notion in this country that people just do A-levels and they go to University because that seems to be the thing to do. But we discovered that 53% of young people the majority dont use that route and they are overlooked and left behind.

MEERA: And who sat on the Committee?

BARONESS CORSTON (direct transcription):

Well it was a huge and impressive range of expertise. We had a former Secretary of State for Education, we had a very celebrated doctor, we had somebody who had been the deputy for the Connections Youth Service, we had people who had a long career in public service in Northern Ireland, we had a former Olympic athlete

It was a wonderful committee to chair, full of a diverse range of experiences which is what you want on a Select Committee. We were commissioned in the July of 2015 and we were required by the House of Lords to report to the Lords by March 21st 2016. So for a select committee a very tight timetable given that for 8 weeks in the summer the house doesnt sit, but we managed it.

We tried very hard to reach the people who this report covered so initially I did a video clip and we sought the views of young people and Im very proud of the fact that over 670 young people responded to that request telling us about their experiences and some of it made quite harrowing reading. We held focus groups with young people in London and in Derby, people with very diverse experiences and diverse backgrounds. We sought written evidence from a bewildering array of people in this country and in continental Europe. And we took oral evidence from the Sec of State, the Minister for Skills, local authorities, organisations that provide life skills education, renowned academics in the sector were all asked to submit evidence either in person or in writing.

MEERA:

What did you find out?

BARONESS CORSTON (direct transcription):

We found that the route from O-levels to (as I used to call them, GCSEs) to A levels, to university is understood and a lot of schools most schools benefit financially if thats what young people do. And a lot of people do it because they think they should.

A majority find this emphasis on academic education to the exclusion of all else doesnt really fit them for the world of work which they think they might want to choose.

The qualifications system for these people is bewildering to say the least they dont know what VTECs are for example (I didnt) but theres a huge range of these qualifications which employers dont then understand so one needs to ask what is the value?

We felt very strongly that given the fact that for a lot of people a technical and vocational education would help them prepare for the world of work, the National Curriculum should finish at 14 and those who want to go on to the A level and University course could continue with their academic education others could have a combination of academic core subjects and vocational education.

So we said that these people arent properly served in Whitehall, that the responsibilities are spread between different departments, that there should be one cabinet minister who has overall responsibility for this subject, this sector. There should be annual reports to Parliament and that we really felt the funding of education for people who do a vocational course is scandalously lower than that for those who go to University and that is simply unfair.

At the time I think some of us felt strongly that the Government response was not what it might have been but it has to be said that when we actually had a debate on the floor of the House of Lords on the 20th of December last, the Minister responding for the Government was much more fulsome in terms of responding to the specific points wed made.

I would love to feel that all young people feel they have a place in the sun. I was particularly affected by the story of one young man who KNEW he wanted to be a furniture maker and he knew that a purely academic education was what he saw as wasting his time. And he left school at 16 which meant after 16 he got no education in the core subjects. He found a course on his own in an FE college to learn furniture making it was two days a week. Now wouldnt it have been great if he could have had those 2 days a week making furniture and the other three days continuing his core education.

And it was those kind of experiences that made me feel quite energised in taking part in this very valuable Select Committee.

MEERA:

Following the Governments response, members of the Lords including Baroness Corston and other members of the Committee debated the findings of the report in the Lords Chamber

The Earl of Kinnoull:

The issues here are simple. Currently, this is an area of not so much spend or retention / attention in schools. Indeed, we heard from Sir Michael Wilshaw of Ofsted that careers advice does not form a core part of its grading of schools.

Evidence suggested that many students head off to university and then discover, after a short period, that the academic route is not for them. Someone in these circumstances will suffer a reversal that is damaging to morale and at the same time will have run up, no doubt, a huge student loan debt. This causes loss to the Exchequer, as clearly at least some of these loans will never be repaid and there is a natural likelihood of a cost to the Government in relaunching a career.

Debate on the Overlooked and Left Behind report from the Social Mobility Committee, House of Lords Chamber, Tuesday 20 December 2017

MEERA:

Now we know about the permanent and ad-hoc committees in the House of Lords, lets hear about how House of Commons select committees work.

First, well meet Laura Daniels, Senior Committee Specialist for the Commons Health Select Committee.

LAURA DANIELS:

In the House of Commons a specific committee is appointed to monitor each government department, specifically three aspects of their work: spending, policies and administration. Select committees are formed entirely of backbenchers and are considered to be one of the most effective ways for MPs to scrutinise the work of the Government.

These departmental committees each have a minimum of 11 members, and they identify and agree on specific lines of inquiry. During an inquiry the committee will request information from government ministers and their officials but will also call for written evidence from specialists in the field and members of the public who have relevant experience.

Written evidence can make it sound like committees are asking for particularly formal or legal documents, but actually, sending evidence to a select committee can be as straightforward as a short email. The committee will also take oral evidence, where witnesses are invited in to answer the MPs questions.

Nearly all evidence is given in public, so as well as attending a live committee meeting, you can watch or listen to all public evidence sessions on parliamentlive.tv/Committees.

In October 2016, two new select committees, the International Trade Committee and the Exiting the European Union Committee were created to scrutinise the work of newly created government departments.

A key strength of select committees is that they are cross-party, with their chairs and members appointed from across the backbenches. So when a committee reaches a consensus on an issue, it presents the Government with a set of recommendations that have been agreed by members from across the House.Alongside the departmental select committees, there are also cross-cutting committees which look at the Governments performance across all departments in relation to one specific criteria. An example of this is the Public Accounts Committee, who focus on value for money in government spending across the whole of government. Similarly, the Environmental Audit Committee monitors the impact of government decisions on the environment.

The departmental committees look vertically at all the responsibilities of a single department and its ministers. The cross-cutting committees on the other hand, look horizontally across several departments at themes or actions in which all or most departments are involved.

Select committee findings are reported to the House of Commons, printed, and published on the Parliament website. The Government then usually has 60 days to reply to the committees recommendations.

MEERA:

Lets have a look at an example of what sort of change can happen as a result of a select committee report.

In November 2015, the House of Commons Health Select Committee that Laura works for, published their report entitled, Childhood obesity, brave and bold action. The report outlined the scale and consequences of childhood obesity in the UK and demanded bold and urgent action from the Government. But the origins of this report start further back.

LAURA:

The process started in 2013, when a campaign backed by over 60 organisations - including the British Dental and British Health Organisations - proposed a tax on sugary drinks. The suggestion was that this money could then go towards funding childrens health causes.

Then in 2015 an e-petition backed by the TV chef Jamie Oliver gained 150,000 signatures and was considered by the Petitions Committee for debate, or for some other form of action to be taken, in the Commons.

MEERA:

The Petitions Committee put the issue of a sugar tax to the Government, who responded initially by stating they had no plans to introduce one. But that wasnt to be the end of the story!

LAURA:

The Petitions Committee then referred the issue to the House of Commons Health Committee, which is where we came in. We investigated the wider impact of sugary drinks on childrens health and found that obesity was a serious and growing problem for the wider population, and that this was having knock-on effects.

JAMIE OLIVER MBE:

When you inform the British public with good information they make good choices. Theyre not making good choices currently and I think thats a major problem. I think that comes down to nutrition information... Mums and Dads who are working very hard havent been taught about food at school or at home so we have some catching up to do

Oral Evidence Session to the House of Commons Health Select Committee on the Governments Childhood Obesity Strategy, Monday 19 October 2015

MEERA:

The committee issued a series of recommendations including:

LAURA:

*Tougher controls on promotion and marketing of unhealthy drinks

*Better labelling of sugar in food packaging

*Better education and universal school food standards

*Local authority powers to intervene and tackle issues contributing to obesity and..

* A tax on sugary drinks

MEERA:

So faced with these recommendations, the Government were under considerable pressure to act, and in his Budget statement in March 2016, the then-Chancellor of the Exchequer, George Osborne made this commitment:

GEORGE OSBORNE MP:

Five-year-old children are consuming their body weight in sugar every year. Experts predict that within a generation more than half of all boys and 70% of girls could be overweight or obese

One of the biggest contributors to childhood obesity is sugary drinks

So today I can announce that we will introduce a new sugar levy on the soft drinks industry. Let me explain how it will work. It will be levied on the companies. It will be introduced in two years time

The Office for Budget Responsibility estimates that this levy will raise 520 million, and that is tied directly to the second thing we are going to do today to help childrens health and wellbeing. We are going to use the money from this new levy to double the amount of funding we dedicate to sport in every primary school.

Budget Statement, House of Commons Chamber, Wednesday 16 March 2016

MEERA:

Following that, a ten-year plan was drawn up by the Government to reduce the rate of childhood obesity. This plan includes:

making healthier food options available to children throughout public sector services including schools;

supporting businesses to make their products healthier;

clearer labelling on food packaging; and

promoting physical activity in children.

This example shows how a select committee can help prompt the Government to re-think its priorities and in this case it could make a difference to the health of children and families across the UK.

Weve explored how select committees in the House of Commons and the House of Lords shadow our Government departments or look at wider issues that cut across several departments. What do you think of this system?

VOX POPS:

Yes I think select committees work very well. Ive watched them on occasions - you do get cross-party cooperation and the questions are intelligent and they do hold people to account, and its interesting to watch people squirm

I didnt know that I could contribute to select committees. I didnt know it was even a thing!

I think its a really great system because I think sometimes the Government has this hat on and they dont think of the little things that are bubbling under. Its great to have a committee who are pushing those things to get through

I like that theyre made up of different political parties, I think that way it means that theyre fair

I think its good to keep the Government in check using facts and research rather than, I imagine, coming at it from a party point of view

Youve got select committees working on specific issues and I think its really important and really good that its streamlined that way

Its good to know there are ad hoc committees because current affairs and public issues are always popping up

They hold a vital role I think in democracy and Im very impressed by select committees. I think theyre a good constitutional democratic tool

MEERA:

Weve heard examples of where select committees have used information gathered from the public and from experts to produce robust recommendations that have influenced the Governments decisions.

If youd like to hear some parliamentary debate, you can hear the Prime Ministers Question Time Podcast by searching for UK Parliament on SoundCloud.

You can find out more about select committees, including how to submit evidence to an inquiry, by visitingwww.parliament.uk.

You can also watch select committee proceedings at www.parliamentlive.tv. If you have a specific question about select committees, you can call the House of Commons Enquiry Office for free on 0800 112 4272 or the House of Lords Enquiry Service on 0800 223 0855, which is also free.

Callers with a text phone can talk through Text Relay by calling 18001 followed by either of these relevant full numbers.

Thanks for listening to Parliament Explained. I hope youve enjoyed the programme.

To make sure you never miss an episode, you can subscribe to the programme on your podcast app so that it downloads automatically every Monday.

Next time well be looking at how the laws that affect our everyday lives are made and changed, and how we can all play a part in that process.

Until then, Im Meera Syal.

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