OPENING COMMENTS –CLOSED · Web viewAMS 2759/1 through /13 is still on going. Revision of AMS...

HEAT TREATINGJUNE 2017

CONFIRMED

CONFIRMED MINUTESJUNE 05 – 08, 2017BERLIN, GERMANY

These minutes are not final until confirmed by the Task Group in writing or by vote at a subsequent meeting. Information herein does not constitute a communication or recommendation from the Task Group and shall not be considered as such by any agency.

MONDAY, 05-JUN-2017 to THURSDAY, 08-JUN-2017

1.0 OPENING COMMENTS –CLOSED

Heat Treating Task Group (HTTG) Chair Tom Norris made opening comments and HTTG members introduced themselves.

1.1 Call to Order / Quorum Check –CLOSED

The HTTG meeting was called to order at 9:00 a.m., 05-Jun-2017.

It was verified that only SUBSCRIBER MEMBERS were in attendance during the closed portion of the meeting.

A quorum was established with the following representatives in attendance:

Subscriber Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)

NAME COMPANY NAME

Olaf Adam Premium AEROTEC GmbH* Arie Ben Dov Israel Aerospace Industries

Piotr Bienia UTC Aerospace (Goodrich)Elizabeth Chapman Triumph GroupEswara Naidu Chikkala Honeywell Aerospace

* Craig Clasper Spirit AeroSystems* Karen Dannis BAE Systems* Martin Day Honeywell Aerospace

Luigi Di Martino The Boeing Company* Andreas Elbs Liebherr-Aerospace Lindenberg GmbH* Mark Emerson Rolls-Royce

Ron Galley GE Aviation* Greg Haataja Bell Helicopter Textron* Peter Hammarbo GKN Aerospace Sweden AB

Daniel Hoft Premium Aerotec GmbH * David Isenberg Parker Aerospace Group* David Knack Eaton, Aerospace Group* Marc-André Lefebvre Héroux-Devtek Inc.* Stefan Lemberger Airbus Helicopters Germany* Hongping Li COMAC

Stella Ma The Boeing Company* Doug Matson The Boeing Company* John Merritt Lockheed Martin Corporation* Alessandro Miglio Leonardo Helicopters

Martin Miller Héroux DevtekJuan Antonio Molina Airbus Defence and Space

* Tom Norris UTC Aerospace (Goodrich) ChairpersonLuis Gustavo Pacheco Embraer SA

* Eddy Pham Northrop Grumman* Marco Luigi Poletto Leonardo S.p.A. Aircraft Division


CONFIRMED

* Earl Pruett Lockheed Martin Corporation* Sunder Rajan Raytheon Company Secretary* Alexandre Richez Airbus Commercial Aircraft* Josefa Rodriguez Airbus Defence and Space* Salvatore Santangelo UTC Aerospace (Hamilton Sundstrand)* Simon Scott BAE Systems - MAI* Mariusz Stanczyk Lockheed Martin Corporation* Marc Taillandier Airbus Helicopters

Takayuki Takahashi Mitsubishi Heavy IndustriesStanley Trull Honeywell Aerospace

* Cyril Vernault SAFRAN Group Vice Chairperson* Tom Wilson Bombardier Aerospace* Grzegorz Wryk Rolls-Royce* Mark Zelle Pratt & Whitney

Other Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)

NAME COMPANY NAME

Coman Anca Romaero SARichard Aylward TT Electronics Wolfgang Bernmeister ZF Friedrichshafen AGAngela Bornemann Aluminiumwerk Unna AGAndrey Christyakov OAO KUMZIzidor Costea Romaero SA

* Joshua Crockett Ellison Surface Technologies* Vivian Delaney Haynes International Inc.

Markus Fuchsmann Otto Fuchs KGArie Goldstien Blades Technology Ltd

* Jonathan Gonzalez Solar Atmospheres Proxy for Edward Engelahrd

Alex Goodman Hauck Heat TreatmentRudolf Graf Böhler Schmiedetechnik GmbH & Co KGMesut Guzel Tusaş Engine IndustryChristoph Henkel AMAG rollingLuis Herrera CPP-Port HuenemeReinhard Hornow Arconic Fastening Systems & RingsIan Jenner Vacuum Furnace EngineeringJurgen Hartinger Liebherr Aerospace

* Alexander Klyuch Blades Technology LtdHasan Köse ZF Friedrichshafen AGGünter Krauss RUAG AerostructuresTerry Layton Aluminiumwerk Unna AGGilles Leroy AUBERT & DUVALJohannes Martin Arconic Tital

* Stuart Mellor Wyman Gordon LtdMelanie Metzger Liebherr AerospaceAndré Moeller N3 Engine Overhaul Services GmbH &

Co. KGAnne Pascale Moiroux Aubert DuvalAndreas Mühlenbein Arconic TitalDanijelo Nedic ZF Friedrichshafen AG

* Ken Nelson Continental Heat Treating* Michael Niedzinski Constellium

Nick Olpin Wallwork CambridgeCornelia Ortiz CPP-Port Hueneme

* Matthias Otter VDM Metals


CONFIRMED

Yasemin Ozkan TEI TUSAS ENGINE INDUSTRIES INC.Robert Peters R Peters Consulting, LLC.Francesco Pontone Leonardo AerostructuresPiotr Pudelko ArconicTee Rassieur Paulo

* Stan Revers Senior Aerospace - Thermal EngineeringStan Revers Straight Aero Engineering Limited

* Brian Reynolds ArconicRainer Ricken Zollern GmbH & CoSimone Robinson ArconicIgor Rudman Turbine JetDikla Samoocha Turbine JetIrina Sarantseva OAO KUMZJan Schwiontek LeitstritzMoshe Shaket Cyclone elbit systemsFrank Siewert Claudius Peters Projects GmbHKlaus Sommerauer Böhler Schmiedetechnik GmbH + Co&KgRudolf Sporer Böhler EdelstahlChristian Stoeckler Zollern GmbH & Co kG

* Wilfried Weber PFW Aerospace GmbH* Mark Willis Arconic* Nicholas Wood Arconic

Adam Yates Wallwork HT

PRI Staff Present

Mark BurvalMarcel CupermanRobert Hoeth

1.2 Safety Information – CLOSED

The Safety Information was reviewed. If there are any emergencies, contact a PRI Staff person immediately.

1.3 Review Code of Ethics and Meeting Conduct – CLOSED

The Code of Ethics and Meeting Conduct was briefed to the Heat Treating Task Group (HTTG)

1.4 Present the Antitrust Video – CLOSED

Marcel Cuperman briefed the HTTG on the policy of PRI expressly prohibiting video or audio recording of HTTG meetings unless formal approval is received from all attendees and recorded in the HTTG meeting minutes.

The PRI Antitrust video was played for the attendees.

1.5 Review Agenda – CLOSED

Agenda was reviewed in detail by the Chairperson.

2.0 REVIEW DELEGATION STATUS – CLOSED

The HTTG reviewed the tfrm-07 for delegated Staff Engineers.

Delegation data was reviewed – All reviewers met requirements in OP 1115 for maintaining delegation (≥ 10% Oversight, ≥ 90%concurrence, ≥ 10 audits reviewed in the last 12 months).


CONFIRMED

Motion made by Mark Emerson and seconded by Cyril Vernault to continue to delegate Anne Allen. Motion Passed; Delegation Maintained.

Motion made by Mark Emerson and seconded by Tom Norris to continue to delegate Jerry Aston. Motion Passed; Delegation Maintained.

Motion made by Mark Emerson and seconded by Tom Norris to continue to delegate Marcel Cuperman. Motion Passed; Delegation Maintained.

Motion made by Mark Emerson and seconded by Cyril Vernault to continue to delegate Rob Hoeth. Motion Passed; Delegation Maintained.

Motion made by Sunder Rajan and seconded by Mark Emerson to continue to delegate Mark Burval. Motion Passed; Delegation Maintained.

There was some discussion on the procedure for requesting Task Group Resolution. Mark Emerson made a motion for the Staff Engineer to gather data on the frequency of requests for Task Group Resolution and discuss this information as an agenda item in the Thursday closed session. This motion was seconded by Cyril Vernault and it passed.

Data not available by Thursday, will retrieve data for review in October

ACTION ITEM: PRI to provide data regarding frequency of Task Group Resolution. (Due Date: 01-Oct-2017).

3.0 AUDITOR CONSISTENCY – CLOSED

3.1 +/-4 NCRs

PRI Staff provided data on audits for the past four months where there had been +/- 4 NCR swing between audits. The HTTG will continue to collect this +/- 4 data and it will be monitored by the Auditor Consistency Team (ACT) which will provide reports and recommendations back to the HTTG to help direct auditor observation priority and provide reports and recommendations back to the HTTG. This data will be included in a new comprehensive rating tool to allow HTTG to better monitor auditor consistency. Additions to the new comprehensive rating tool were discussed. Auditor attendance to Auditor Training and last observation conducted.

Motion made by Earl Pruett to add the two columns mentioned above, add explanation to the columns which are already there and release the document as soon as possible. Motion Seconded by Mark Emerson. Motion passed 24 to 0.

ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineers to provide additional information in the new rating tool and distribute. (Due Date: 01-Jul-2017).

Another item which needs to be considered is HTTG Observer Availability. Staff engineer will provide additional information of forthcoming audits well in advance to enable HTTG Members to select an observation audit. This data will be made available on Thursday 7-Jun-2017. (See item 46).

Also discussed was a method of keeping the HTTG aware of changes in the Auditor working status.

ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to develop an effective procedure to notify TG members about the status of Auditors. (Due Date: 01-Oct-2017).

3.2 Auditor Variation Data

Marcel Cuperman presented Auditor Consistency data, which consisted of various data points including the average NCRs for all Auditors combined, and the average number of NCRs by


CONFIRMED

Auditor from 2012 through May 2017. The average of all NCRs has not changed significantly since 2015, however there has been a drop in the average NCRs from 2014 to 2015 from 4.26 to 3.75. New data with respect to Major NCR’s issued in 2017 was also reviewed.

Top ten NCRs (Auditor Consistency Report) for the period Dec 2016 through May 2017 was presented by Marcel Cuperman.

3.3 OP 1117 Standard Data Set

The standard data set results from 2016 were presented by the Staff Engineer.

4.0 AUDITOR OBSERVATIONS - CLOSED

There were six Auditor Observation forms reviewed for observations conducted since the February 2017 meeting. Staff Engineer and Supplier Feedback were presented. Issues discussed are listed below:

Observation Report was discussed in detail. Auditor wrote 10 NCRs within the limited audit duration (only two full days and two short days).

Auditor Observation revealed a customer flow down requirement which was not adequately addressed by the auditor. An observer mentioned that the auditor missed some issues, but they were not noted by the observer. The problem may be due to a lack of specific guidelines for the observer to report all of the misses by the auditor.

Audit 180737 was observed and reported by Observer. Initially supplier did not have all of their documents in English for review. Also, much of the (internal) job audit information was claimed to be “Proprietary” and not furnished to the Auditor. This places an added burden on the auditor to do a thorough audit which has 11 Checklists.

Tabled item to go over whether any guidelines for observers should be added.

ACTION ITEM: Doug Matson to provide list of recommendations for audit observer. (Due Date: 01-Oct-2017).

Discussed options to improve Subscriber participation.

5.0 2017 AUDITOR CONFERENCE – CLOSED

Determine presentations to be given at the 2017 Auditor Conference in October 2017. Items discussed included:

The +/- 4 NCR Presentation will center on the new spread sheet “rating system”. The data will be shared taking out the Auditors’ names. Motion made by Earl Pruett and seconded by Cyril Vernault in favor of NOT showing the names when showing the spread sheet to auditors. Motion passed 17 to 4.

ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineers to prepare new rating system report without names. (Due Date: 01-oct-2017).

Training Criteria for Auditor.

Group Discussion Topics were reviewed.

Special situations leading to changes in the Scope (Equipment, People, Hardware) needs to be discussed. Tabled Subject: This needs to be worked on at the October 2017 Nadcap Meeting in Pittsburgh, PA. USA. Topic not ready for Auditor Conference.

ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineers to add to October 2017 Agenda topic of changes in scope. (Due Date: 01-Jul-2017).


CONFIRMED

Discussion on Materials Testing Laboratories (MTL) Memorandum Of Understanding (MOU) for micro hardness and metallography – Consensus was that best path would be for the HTTG to write their own checklist for these tests. Heat Treating uses this data to confirm “Process Control” whereas MTL is using these for External Laboratory Accreditations.

Tom Norris will send out a chart with points to each HTTG Member to explain HTTG position that we need our own Testing Requirements. Each HTTG Member should review with their MTL TG Counterpart or their Nadcap Management Council (NMC) representative to determine whether consensus can be reached. Tabled until Thursday 8-Jun-2017.

6.0 GOOGLE CHAT SUBJECTS AND DISCUSSION - CLOSED

A Summary of Google Chat Subjects since February 2017 was presented by Marcel Cuperman.

1. Load Thermocouple Heat Sink Difference between Temperature Uniformity Survey (TUS) and Production – Thinnest or Thickest Section, which should be the basis for determination of the heat sink size. The differences are driven by AMS 2750 vs AMS 2769 requirements for achieving the desired uniformity.

o HTTG Response: The supplier can use both. Perhaps some verbiage needs to be added for clarification. Pyrometry TUS Thinnest (not thicker than half an inch); Job Audit Production Thickest (requirement driven by the heat treating specification) Cyril Vernault to write an Advisory.

ACTION ITEM: Cyril Vernault to write advisory regarding Heat Sinks. (Due Date: 01-Oct-2017).

2. Supplier using polynomial equation to determine correction factors. Question of using the mathematic value shall insure that the value is correct.

o HTTG Response: The question of using the value outside the range arose because of the error in the calculation of the polynomial at the facility. Correcting the error should have fixed the issue.

3. Should Initial TUS be required if a furnace is relocated?

o HTTG Response: YES, specification refers to any furnace modification or adjustment that could have altered the temperature uniformity characteristics of the furnace. Common sense, specifically for a brick furnace.

4. Calibration of Viscosity Measurement on Glycol (AMS2770) Refer to ASTM D445 viscosity test on Glycol.

o HTTG Response: Auditor misunderstanding. The specification clearly defines the procedure. Action Item: Doug Matson will make a presentation on this subject.

ACTION ITEM: Doug Matson to prepare a presentation regarding Viscosity testing of Glycol. (Due Date: 01-Oct-2017).

5. Calibration and instrumentation of equipment for chilling PH steels. The time at temperature is not defined in specification.

o HTTG Response: For PH Steel the martensitic transformation is diffusion less. Therefore, time at temperature is NOT required. But the supplier had an internal procedure which required a long hold at the temperature. So, this was being violated. The real question is whether a recorder is required. A temperature sensor or a contact pyrometer can be used as long as it is calibrated. However, if


CONFIRMED

an internal procedure requires a hold time, that must be shown as an objective evidence with a recorder.

6. Preparing for an upcoming NADCAP Audit. If the supplier identifies an Internal Corrective Action Required (CAR), should the NADCAP auditor write an Non-Conformance Report (NCR) against it?

o HTTG Response: Reference is made to Audit Advisory 16-003. The Internal CAR should be “addressed” (does not have to be completed). However, if they violated the due diligence requirement of 16-003, and did not complete the pre-audit requirement, there should be an NCR. There was discussion on whether the NADCAP auditor should pursue other NCRs at the supplier to determine if there is a systemic issue. This Advisory 16-003 should be discussed thoroughly in October Auditor Training.

ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineers to add topic HT AA16-003 to October Training Agenda. (Due Date: 01-Jul-2017).

7. Calibration of Oil Quench TC J-4488 Issue:

o HTTG Response: Violation of calibration of monitoring T/C (200-2200 vs actual usage 60-160) and extended use of resident T/C as the System Accuray Test (SAT) sensor. There should be two minor NCRs.

8. Alternate SAT methodology. Waive requirement of Alt SAT on Recording T/Cs?

o HTTG Response: Calibration of Recoding T/C and frequency of replacement of Load T/C cannot be used to justify waiver of Alt SAT on recording T/Cs based on the current revison of AMS 2750. Supplier is in violation of AMS 2750 (current revision). Perhaps this procedure may be compliant to the next revision of AMS 2750

9. SAT on controlling and recording system with electronic instrument. The current Advisory 16-002 addressed only Calibration and not SAT.

o HTTG Response: Action Item, Doug Matson-- need an advisory for SAT on use of electronic instruments; it was decided to combine this SAT recommendation with the existing advisory 16-002.

ACTION ITEM: Doug Matson to revise AA 16-002 to address the need for SAT on use of electronic instruments. (Due Date: 01-Jul-2017).

7.0 FAILURE ANALYSIS & VCA DATA – CLOSED

The Staff Engineers presented the Audit Failure Data by sector and in total. Failed audits for 2017 is 3.3%.

In 2017 there were 2 Verification of Corrective Action audits (VCA) performed.

8.0 APPEAL ANALYSIS & POSSIBLE APPEAL – CLOSED

In 2017 there have been 6 appeals presented to the HTTG.

New appeal discussed, appeal of merit for supplier on 18-month merit since 2005 (Ref Audit No’s 172301/153266). Based on OP 1111 Section 4.5 the Main and as Satellite Facility receive the same merit. Motion to extend them to 18 months from current 12 months with a maximum of 18 months on the next audit, made by Tom Norris and Seconded by Earl Pruett. Votes were 14 Yes and 5 No. Motion Passed.


CONFIRMED

9.0 LAPSED ACCREDITATION – CLOSED

None.

10.0 INCOMPLETE SCOPE OF ACCREDITATION – CLOSED

Audit 167988, supplier did not have all the equipment needed to satisfy the Scope. The Scope is listed in the Qualified Manufacturers List (QML). If the equipment is required for proper heat treatment of the product, an NCR shall be written.

11.0 AUDIT EFFECTIVENESS – CLOSED

Subject discussed: How do the suppliers find out whether the lab they are using is accredited or not? Is this issue audited? It is believed that this issue is not being audited consistently. Item to be added to auditor training.

ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineers to add lab accreditation to auditor training. (Due Date: 01-Jul-2017).

12.0 MTL MOU, TEST CODES – CLOSED

Marcel Cuperman discussed a proposed revision to the current MOU with MTL regarding the listing of the new test codes. No action taken at this time.

13.0 AUDIT ALLOCATION – CLOSED

Review Audit Allocation for July Through October 2017

Audit Allocations were made up through 31-Oct-2017. Any audits that do not have two reviewers will be assigned by HTTG Secretary, Sunder Rajan.

14.0 HT-STSTG – OPEN

See HT-STSTG minutes posted on www.eauditnet.com > Resources > Documents > Public Documents > Heat Treating > HTSTSTG.

Only Suppliers and Staff Engineers are allowed to participate.

Subscribers are welcome to observe.

1.0 OPENING COMMENTS –OPEN

Heat Treat Task Group (HTTG) Chair Tom Norris made opening comments and HTTG members introduced themselves.

1.1 Call to Order / Quorum Check – OPEN

1.2 Safety Information – OPEN

The Safety Information was reviewed. If there are any emergencies, contact a PRI Staff person immediately.

1.3 Review Code of Ethics and Meeting Conduct – OPEN

The Code of Ethics and Meeting Conduct was briefed to the Heat-Treating Task Group (HTTG)

http://www.eauditnet.com/


CONFIRMED

1.4 Present the Antitrust Video – OPEN

Marcel Cuperman briefed the HTTG on the policy of PRI expressly prohibiting video or audio recording of HTTG meetings unless formal approval is received from all attendees and recorded in the HTTG meeting minutes.

The PRI Antitrust video was played for the attendees.

1.5 REVIEW AGENDA – OPEN

Agenda was reviewed in detail by the Chairperson.

1.6 ACCEPTANCE OF MEETING MINUTES - FEBRUARY 2017 MEETING – OPEN

February 2017 Meeting Minutes were reviewed in detail by Tom Norris. Motion made by Mark Emerson and seconded by Tom Norris to accept the February 2017 meeting minutes as written. Motion passed.

15.0 TASK GROUP TUTORIAL – OPEN

Marcel Cuperman presented the HTTG Tutorial in detail.

A microphone is available for anyone who would like to use it. Speak clearly, do not dismiss people’s opinions, emotional and off topics should be avoided.

The HTTG reviewed the current Subscriber Matrix.

16.0 TBD – OPEN

No item discussed.

17.0 CLOSED MEETING REPORT OUT – OPEN

Tom Norris highlighted the main items discussed during the Closed Meeting on Monday, 5-Jun-2017.

18.0 REVIEW THE RAIL – OPEN

The Rolling ACTION ITEM List (RAIL) was reviewed by Marcel Cuperman.

For specific details, please see the current (HTTG) Rolling ACTION ITEM List posted at www.eAuditNet.com, under Public Documents/Heat Treating.

19.0 OP 1117 AUDITOR CONSISTENCY SUB-TEAM REVIEW – OPEN

The HTTG reviewed the OP 1117 requirements for which audits can be observed. Cyril Vernault presented the new tool developed by the subteam factoring in the various auditor metrics .These factors will be given appropriate (predetermined) weighting and rate the auditors. This data will then be used to help identify the auditors to be observed, in conjunction with the OP requirement for every auditor to be observed at a minimum of every 3 years. Subscribers need to volunteer to observe all identified auditors.

20.0 REPORT OUT ON PILOT TESTING OF CALIBRATION FORM – OPEN

Mark Burval presented feedback from suppliers who have tested the calibration form. A number of suppliers are still working and have yet to provide feedback. So far no supplier has had any technical disagreement with the form. But a list of program issues, “bugs”, were identified. These bugs will be corrected prior to publishing.

http://www.eAuditNet.com/


CONFIRMED

HTTG agreed to post and make the form available for general supplier use, with the condition that use of this form does not absolve the supplier of the responsibility of maintaining a system of Pyrometry Compliance. The form is merely an indicator (a warning) in case something appears to be out of calibration and whether product can be processed.

21.0 AC7101/11 FOR FASTENERS – OPEN

For suppliers of fasteners, if there is sufficient interest, HTTG can set up an MOU with MTL to perform a Heat Treating audit in conjunction with AC7101/11. No interest was raised by those in attendance.

22.0 HT-STSTG REPORT OUT – OPEN

The HT-STSTG report was presented by Wilfried Weber.

Wilfried Weber introduced the Alternate SAT Reporting Form. This form also looks like the “Instrument Calibration Form”; designed that way to provide familiarity to the user. Wilfried Weber needs to check that the frequency of Alt SAT should be chosen consistent with the furnace class. Wilfried Weber demonstrated the functionality of the form and how it is made easier by using the Standard Instrument Calibration Form. Requested a change to the “Quality Approval” to clarify that it is “Internal Quality Approval”. Electronic Signatures can be implemented by the user at his discretion, by verifying and validating the security requirement. It should be noted that based on discussion this form will be updated in order to address the need of a re-check of previous SAT difference calculations when a new error of the system instrument+wire is obtained.

The standard SAT form is also being designed and Wilfried Weber thinks he will be able to demonstrate that form at the October 2017 Nadcap Meeting in Pittsburgh, PA. USA. The use of these forms does not absolve the supplier of the responsibility of maintaining a system of Pyrometry Compliance. The form is merely an indicator (a warning) in case something appears to be out of calibration and whether product can be processed

23.0 AUDITOR ADVISORIES – OPEN

Auditor Advisories issued from February 2017 to date were reviewed.

17-003 Emphasized that any Third-Party Procedure pertaining to work done at the supplier facility shall be reviewed by the supplier. If supplier does not review the procedure an NCR will be issued. Suppliers own procedure is acceptable if it is Revision Controlled and provided to the Third-Party Service Provider. In this case no NCR will be issued.

17-004 Hardness and Conductivity Hardness Standard Calibration, Requirements for the use of the V Anvil.

Proposed AA 17-xxx Recording, Monitoring and Controlling Instrument Calibration outside of the furnace operating temperature range, was presented. Issues were identified; The calibration of the sensors shall be included. Also, the advisory needs to clearly state that this applies ONLY in cases when the furnace is operated outside the qualified operating range.

ACTION ITEM: Cyril Vernault and Martin Day to re-write the advisory regarding Recording, Monitoring and Controlling Instrument Calibration. (Due Date: 01-Oct-2017).

24.0 REVIEW OF PROCEDURE CHANGES – OPEN

Review Any Changes to General Operating Procedures since the February 2017 meeting in New Orleans, LA., USA.

OP 1105 Para 4.1.3 has been revised to require the self-audit to be uploaded into eAuditNet.


CONFIRMED

Re-numbered 4.1.4 as 4.1.3.2 and revised the text to require NCR to be written if self-audit is not provided as required.

OP 1108 complete re-write, including record of pre-audit completion, clarified expectation of the auditor.

Authorizing auditor to perform subsequent accreditation audit after a pre-audit.

OP 1110 Audit Failure review conditions

OP 1114 TG Operation

HTTG will need to review involvement of suppliers in Auditor Interviews.

OP 1119 No Change

OP 1121 Clarifications.

Review Any Changes to HT Specific OP 1114 and OP 1116 Appendices since the February 2017 Nadcap Meeting in New Orleans, LA., USA.

None

25.0 HTTG PYROMETRY GUIDE UPDATE – OPEN

Changes to the HTTG Pyrometry Guide - None.

26.0 TBD – OPEN

No item discussed.

27.0 TBD – OPEN

No item discussed.

28.0 SSC PRESENTATION – OPEN

Postponed until Wednesday, 7-Jun-2017. Supplier will participate on Tuesday, 06-Jun- 2017and will present the information on Wednesday 07-Jun-2017.

29.0 VOTING MEMBER UPDATES & COMPLIANCE WITH VOTING REQUIREMENTS - OPEN

Data was presented by Marcel Cuperman

Meeting Attendance and Member Updates:

Voting Member Updates

First Name Surname Company Position:(new / updated

role)

Meetings Attended(Month/Year)

John Merritt Lockheed Martin Corp.

Subscriber Alternate Voting Member (ALT UVM)(Updated)

Jun-2016 Feb-2017

Alessandro Miglio Leonardo S.p.a.-Helicopters

Subscriber Voting Member (UVM)

Feb-2016 Jun-2016


CONFIRMED

(New)Fabrizio Quadrini LeonardoS.p.a.

(Helicopters)Subscriber Alternate Voting Member (ALT UVM)(Updated)

Feb - 2016

Elizabeth Chapman Triumph Group Subscriber Voting Member (*UVM)(New)

Feb-2017 Jun-2017

Ron Galley GE Aviation Subscriber Member(New - No voting rights)

Jun-2017 None

Salvatore Santangelo UTC Aerospace (Hamilton Sundstrand)

Subscriber Voting Member (*UVM) (New)

Feb-2017 Jun-2017

Stanley Revers Senior Aerospace Thermal Eng

Supplier Voting Member (SVM)(New)

Oct-2016 Feb-2017

Ian Napleton RHH Franks (New Milton Ltd)

Supplier Member (New - No Voting Rights)

None None

Mesut Guzel TEI-TUSAS Engine Industries

Supplier Voting Member (SVM) Jun-2017

Jonathan Gonzalez Solar Atmospheres Supplier Alternate Voting Member (Alt. SVM)(Updated)

Oct-2016 Feb-2017

REVISION DATE NOTE: Salvatore Santangelo with UTC Aerospace (Hamilton Sundstrand) was inadvertently omitted from the Compliance Table. The Compliance Table has been updated to include Salvatore Santangelo.

30.0 FAILURE ANALYSIS AND VCA DATA – OPEN

The Staff Engineers presented the Audit Failure Data by sector and in total. The Average Failure Rate for 2017 stands at 3.3%.

31.0 SSC REPORT OUT – OPEN

No information available on what was reviewed and discussed.

32.0 AMEC REPORT OUT – OPEN

Doug Matson presented the AMEC specification revision status. AMS 2759/1 through /13 is still on going. Revision of AMS 2750 will begin soon.

ASTM E28 Committee on Indentation Hardness Testing Portable Hardness Testing. Another ballot will be held. Doug Matson presented the forthcoming AMEC meeting dates. For further details please reach out to HTTG contact Doug Matson.


CONFIRMED

Discussion centered on whether to write a letter to the ASTM E28/E28-06 Committee recommending the inclusion of portable hardness testing paragraph.

Motion was made by Doug Matson and seconded by Cyril Vernault to write a letter to the ASTM28/E28-06 Committee. Motion passed 14-0.

ACTION ITEM: Sub team of Mark Emerson, Doug Matson, Cyril Vernault, Sunder Rajan, Tom Norris, Joshua Crockett, Marcel Cuperman and Don Lowman to draft letter to the ASTM E28/E28-06 Committee recommending the inclusion of portable hardness testing paragraph. (Due Date: 01-Oct-2017).

33.0 AC7102 REV. J PROPOSAL – OPEN

One comment resolved.

34.0 OPEN MEETING NEW BUSINESS – OPEN

Alternate SAT Document Form (Wilfried Weber) Document providing guidance to this form was described. Discussion on whether the past months data need to be reviewed for Alternate SAT. If we are within tolerance do not need to look back. If out of tolerance shall need to look back to past months’ records to determine when the error may have occured. Alternate SAT is NOT just instrument calibration.

Had a Standard (conventional) SAT been done and if the results are in tolerance you do not have to go back. With Alternate SAT, even if the results are in tolerance you must go back. Is there a need to go back to the HTSTSTG to redo the form to permit back tracking?

HTSTSTG will need to discuss this and come to a resolution. The form should address this.

Auditor raised a concern regarding the TUS for a three-zone furnace. Supplier did not demonstrate three point sensor measurements (hottest / coldest and mid-point). Also, there was not supportive data that the T/C calibration was compliant.

o HTTG response; This should have been written as finding. Another issue regarding failed tensile test. The spec allows two retests. If they pass, are

only the passing values reported. Discussion – Average the values of the THREE Tests should be reported. Auditor took a position that all three tests (including the failed test should be reported. Supplier takes the position that the failed test value will be maintained for archival data but not reported. As retesting is handled differently by each specification, they need to be read.

Alternate SAT Sensor- The supplier was using the furnace always at one temperature. But calibrated instruments at THREE Temperature. The error was being calculated at the used temperature for each load and still auditor wrote a finding.

o HTTG response; This is an auditor misinterpretation of the requirement. NCR should not have been written.

35.0 OPEN MEETING TABLED SUBJECTS – OPEN

Short Job Audits, should they have an added Quench Table? Motion to add the existing Quench Table to all the short job audits. Motion made by Tom Norris and seconded by Cyril Vernault to add the QuenchTable in the existing format to the short job audit. Yes 20. Opposed 4. Motion Passed.

ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineer to add quench table to AC7102 short job audits. (Due Date: Next revision or sooner).

36.0 RAIL REVIEW – OPEN

Open Meeting Action Items were captured.


CONFIRMED

37.0 AS9100 RECENT REVISION (REV D) AND IT’S IMPACT – OPEN

Presentation was made by Martin Bridge describing the essential changes and features.

38.0 PR-0100 NITRIDING – OPEN

Cyril Vernault presented main features of the Safran Pr-00100 Nitriding Specification requirements.

39.0 HOW TO ANSWER NCR’S – OPEN

Cyril Vernault presented a guide on how to respond to NCR’s.

Clarified issues in the presentation, that Suppliers are to send restricted supportive data to <[email protected]>

40.0 HONEYWELL REQUIREMENTS OVERVIEW – OPEN

Presentation was made by Martin Day.

41.0 Q & A SESSION – OPEN

Q1: Supplier has a HT Audit coming up. They have a brand new Temperature Monitoring System (reduces the data to a treatment cycle minimum & maximum temperature). Do they have to continue to have the operator check the chart?

A: You have to have the objective evidence that the automatic system is reporting all the required data. Read the Audit Handbook which describes all of the data (objective evidence) which needs to be provided to the auditor .

Q2: Follow on to above question. AS9100 requires that software system be verified?

A: Nadcap TG is process oriented. The Nadcap Audit and AS9100 are not always focused on the same requirements.

Q3: SAT on two classes of furnace. Class 2 and Class 5. Does supplier need to follow the frequency of Class 2 or Class 5?

A: Follow the frequency and requirement which is the most stringent qualified range. In this case follow the requirements of Class 2 SAT frequency. It can be done at any processing temperature.

Q4: Related to SAT. Carburizing Furnace. There is a heating control element in the oxygen sensor. Do we have to do an SAT?

A: You do not have to do an SAT on the Oxygen Sensor heating system.

Q5: One furnace with three temperature ranges. Do production TC’s have to be located in three different areas for “Hot” and three different areas for “Cold”. Can the three “Hot“ locations be averaged and three “Cold” be averaged?

A: One answer - 6 T/Cs - three times for Hot and three times for Cold. Supplier’s thought of selecting one representative “Hot” and “Cold” temperature by averaging the three might lead to erroneous results. This is not correct. Another option: If the temperatures are close enough and have overlap, you may be able to narrow the number of T/Cs.

42.0 PLANNING & OPS REPORT OUT – OPEN

Tom Norris presented the details. Suppliers holding back “Proprietary Data” was discussed. The NMC is concerned about this and will look into this further. Demands for “Restricted Auditors” and ITAR work was discussed.


CONFIRMED

43.0 NMC REPORT OUT – OPEN

Wilfried Weber presented the NMC report out.

Escape/Merit Discussion. How to determine Escape? Agreement established that once product passes final inspection at supplier, it is an Escape if there is potential product impact.

Discussion on length of audit, especially if auditor and auditee do not speak the same language.

Is there data on the number of NCRs in different sectors? This needs to be reviewed.

Also discussed; Checklist availability in different languages. It is mandatory that objective evidence be in English? Should all the procedures in different countries also be in English?

Accreditation Scope and Equipment used was discussed. List of equipment used is already being provided by Suppliers for Heat Treating audits. This is acceptable to the suppliers as well.

44.0 CLOSED MEETING NEW BUSINESS– CLOSED

1. Spray Quench Process called out: Is there a temperature requirement?

Answer: If there is a requirement there should be a record.

2. Stopping a job during an audit if he observes something wrong? Does Auditor have authority?

Answer: What should our position be for HTTG? Auditor has an obligation which should be clearly described in Auditor Training. Cannot stop the job; but flag the non-compliance. Make it clear that an NCR will be issued. Auditor needs to confirm the non-conformance.

3. An issue with a Supplier receiving a major NCR. As a result the Supplier lost merit; but the Supplier came back two months after the audit was closed saying that the NCR was not valid, response from Subscriber was not prompt.

Answer: Normally NCRs need to be challenged within a short time after audit closure (10 days maximum). The details provided justification to reducing the NCR and restore the merit. Motion made by Earl Pruett and seconded by Cyril Vernault to reduce the NCR to a minor and reinstate the Merit without an appeal. Motion passed 15 to 4. Next auditor, while reviewing this NCR, should be able to see the response from customer (Pratt and Whitney) supporting the Supplier, allowing the time tolerance used by the supplier.

ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to alter merit on the audit. (Due Date: 01-Jul-2017).

4. PRI reviewed an allegation made by former employee of a Supplier. We reviewed the summary of the allegation investigation. Do we need to share this allegation with other Task Groups?

Answer: There were five subscribers involved who assessed the Supplier in view of the allegation. The Subscribers did not see anything which caused concern as a result of this allegation. There was unanimous consensus among the HTTG that no further action is needed and this can be closed without further action.

5. Honeywell (Martin Day) Audit 170925 Process Control testing – Concern Vacuum System Calibration. (Metrology) is identified as a Process Control item. Is this a Process Control issue? Should this be a subject for Auditor Training?

Answer: This has been done, when no other testing is required.

6. Subscriber, expressed concern about overshoot of solution treating temperature identified in an NCR.


CONFIRMED

Answer: Advisory (Potential Product Impact) was issued.

7. Time duration of audit minimum three days work was completed in a day and a half. What do they do for the rest of the time? Auditor may complete sooner if there are brief cycles and then they may have spare time.

Answer: This is between PRI and Supplier. One furnace and One Hardness Tester automatically 4 days. HTTG Member is encouraged to work with the Staff Engineer.

8. Issue discussed when Subscriber identified issue during their audit.

Answer: There is a defined procedure (OP 1109 Paragraph 4.1.2) to report a major finding at a supplier which an auditor may have missed.

45.0 CLOSED MEETING TABLED SUBJECTS– CLOSED

Items which were tabled for review on Thursday, 8-Jun-2017 were accordingly reviewed and acted upon. Some items were postponed for review at the October 2017 Nadcap Meeting in Pittsburgh, PA. USA., as noted.

Chair asked Staff Engineers to add a new regular agenda item for Prime review & allocation of observations. The most overdue auditor observations to address the HTTG difficulty in keeping up with its requirement to observe all auditors a minimum of every 3 years. Two Primes agreed to attempt to obtain authorization from their leadership to observe the two most delinquent-to-be-observed auditors.

ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineers to add item to regular agenda – Prime review and allocation of observations. (Due Date: 01-Jul-2017).

HTTG agreed to begin pilot of Alternate SAT form upon its correction to direct user to “look back” as noted in Open Session of minutes.

MTL MOU, Jerry Aston to monitor a meeting between HT and MTL to work out the issue. Mark Emerson, Cyril Vernault, Doug Matson and Tom Norris to participate.

ACTION ITEM: Mark Emerson, Cyril Vernault, Doug Matson and Tom Norris to participate with a MTL team on resolving testing MOU issue. Jerry Aston to monitor meetings. (Due Date: 01-Jul-2017).

46.0 RAIL REVIEW– CLOSED

Action Item Lists provided by Secretary and RAIL was updated.

47.0 OCTOBER 2017 AGENDA– CLOSED

Staff Engineers will create October 2017 HTTG Agenda and send to HTTG for review prior to posting.

ADJOURNMENT – 8-June-2017 – Meeting was adjourned at 2:30 p.m.

Minutes Prepared by: Sunder S Rajan, [email protected]


CONFIRMED

***** For PRI Staff use only: ******

Are procedural/form changes required based on changes/actions approved during this meeting? (select one)

YES* ☒ NO ☐

*If yes, the following information is required:Documents requiring revision: Who is responsible: Due date:AC7102 Staff Engineer Next Revision of AC7102

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