Nucleus Software Exports Limited Q4 FY16 Call/131209_20160505.pdf · Page 1 of 36 Nucleus Software...

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Nucleus Software Exports Limited

Q4 FY16

Earnings Conference Call

May 5, 2016

Members of Nucleus Management

Mr. Vishnu R. Dusad Managing Director and CEO

Mr. R P Singh Director & Head, Global Product Management

Mr. Ashish Nanda Chief Financial Officer Mr. Avnish Datt Executive Vice President, Global Head Strategy

Mr. Pankaj Bhatt Executive Vice President, Professional Services

Mr. Ashutosh Pande Head, Financial Inclusion

[Note: This transcript has been edited for improved readability]

Nucleus Software Quarterly Investor Call

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Gaurav: Good afternoon everyone. This is Gaurav from Investor Relations Team at Nucleus Software. A very warm welcome to all of you for this Nucleus Software earnings conference call for the fourth quarter and year ended March 31st, 2016. For discussions, we have here from management team, Mr. Vishnu R. Dusad, our Managing Director and CEO; Mr. R. P. Singh, Director and Head Product Management; Mr. Ashish Nanda, CFO; Mr. Avnish Datt, Executive Vice President, Global Head Strategy; Mr. Pankaj Bhatt, Executive Vice President Professional Services; and Mr. Ashutosh Pande, Head Financial Inclusion. As you all are aware, Nucleus Software does not provide any specific revenue earnings guidance. Anything which is said during the call which may reflect our outlook for the future or which may be constructed as a forward-looking statement must be reviewed in conjunction with the risk that the company faces. An audio and a transcript of this call would be shortly available on the Investor section of our website, www.nucleussoftware.com. With this, we are now ready to begin with the opening comments on the performance of the company for the quarter ended March 31st, 2016 from the CEO. And post that we would be available for the Q&A session. With this, I now pass it over to Vishnu. Vishnu R. Dusad: Thank you Gaurav and good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. I’m pleased to connect with you at this earnings call for fourth quarter and year ended March 31st, 2016. In financial year 2016, we have continued to make progress on our transformation journey. We are beginning to see changes in our revenue mix. Revenue from our product business is up and it now represents 75% of our business. We gained six new customers and we helped 28 others go live all over the world on various models. We continue to enhance our solutions portfolio. We launched PaySe, the world’s first offline digital cash solution designed to democratize money. We created a tailored version of FinnOne specifically for NBFCs, and we made our solutions available in the cloud. It has been a rewarding quarter for us, not only did FinnOne Neo digitize the loan application process for DCB Bank but the project helped the bank win ICONIC IDC Insights Award 2015 for ‘Excellence in Transformation’. We have been recognized among the first five most significant mobile-banking solution vendors by Forrester Research and we were delighted to be recognized by Celent when we won one of their inaugural Model Bank Vendor awards for helping multiple clients achieve technology or

http://www.nucleussoftware.com/


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implementation excellence. The senior management team was further strengthened with appointment of senior sales team members in Japan. Our growth continues and I’m delighted to say that every day in 50 countries 150,000 people working for 150 companies use our systems to support 26 million loan accounts and manage loans with a total value of almost $150 billion. In transaction banking just one of our customers uses our systems in 16 countries to process over $3 trillion worth of transactions each year. We also made a beginning in the direction of acquiring new technologies through acquisitions and this was for all important logistics industry. Logistics, as you know, is key component of fast-growing e-commerce industry. With this, over to you, Ashish. Ashish Nanda: Thank you, Vishnu. Good afternoon everybody. This is Ashish and I welcome you all to this conference call. Key Highlights from Financials are: REVENUE

Our Consolidated revenue for the quarter is at Rs. 92.7 crore against Rs. 86.5 crore QoQ and Rs. 100.9 crore YoY. For the year it is Rs. 348.7 crore against Rs. 353.1 crore for the previous year.

Overall Revenue in foreign currency including India Rupee revenue is US$ 13.8 million for the quarter, against US$ 13.1 million QoQ and US$ 16.2 million YoY. For the year it is US$ 53.4 Million, against US$ 57.1 Million for the previous year.

Product revenue for the quarter is at Rs. 71.8crore, against Rs. 65.1 crore QoQ and Rs. 75.4 crore YoY. For the Year it is Rs. 261.7 crore, against Rs. 255.6 crore for the previous year.

Revenue from projects and services for the quarter is at Rs. 21 crore, against Rs. 21.3 crore QoQ, and Rs. 25.5 crore YoY. For the Year it is Rs. 87 crore, against Rs. 97.5 crore for the previous year.

EXPENSES

Cost of delivery including cost of product development for the quarter is 58.5% of revenue, against 65.1% of revenue QoQ and 53.1% of revenue YoY. In absolute terms this is Rs. 54.2 crore against Rs. 56.3 crore QoQ and Rs. 53.6 crore YoY. For


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the Year, it is Rs. 225 crore (64.5% of revenue) against Rs. 207.3 crore (58.7% of revenue) for the previous year.

Marketing & sales expense for the quarter is 12.3% of revenue, against 16.9% of revenue QoQ and 13.6% YoY. In absolute terms this is Rs.11.4 crore against Rs. 14.6 crore QoQ and Rs. 13.8 crore YoY. For the Year, they are at Rs. 53.9 crore (15.5% of revenue) against Rs. 45.7 crore (12.9% of revenue) for the previous year.

G&A expense for the quarter is 9.4% of revenue, against 11.3% of revenue QoQ and 8.9% YoY. In absolute terms this is Rs.8.7 crore against Rs. 9.8 crore QoQ and Rs. 8.9 crore YoY. For the Year, they are at Rs. 39.6 crore (11.4% of revenue) against Rs. 34.9 crore (9.9% of revenue) for the previous year.

EBITDA for the quarter is at Rs. 18.4 crore (19.8% of Revenue), against Rs. 5.8 crore (6.7% of Revenue), QoQ and Rs. 24.6 crore (24.4% of Revenue), YoY. For the Year, EBITDA is at Rs. 30.2 crore, 8.7% of revenue, against Rs. 65.3 crore, 18.5% of revenue in the previous year.

Other income from investments and deposits is at Rs. 6.2 crore against Rs. 4.9 crore QoQ, and Rs. 6.7 crore YoY. Total other Income for the quarter is Rs. 5.5 crore against Rs. 5.7 crore QoQ and Rs. 7.5 crore YoY. For the Year, other income from investments and deposits is at Rs. 22.4 crore against Rs. 26.3 crore for the previous year. Total other Income for the Year is Rs. 25.9 crore against Rs. 33.3 crore for the previous year.

Total taxes for the quarter is at Rs. 6.8 crore against Rs. 1.4 crore QoQ and Rs. 8.3 crore YoY. For the Year, Taxes are at Rs. 11.4 crore, 26% of PBT against Rs. 21.9 crore, 25.3% of PBT in the previous year.

Net profit is at Rs. 14.1 crore for the quarter, 15.2% of revenue, against Rs. 7.0 crore, 8.1% of revenue QoQ and Rs. 20.6 crore, 20.5% YoY. For the Year it is at Rs. 32.5 crore, 9.3% of total revenue, against Rs. 64.7 crore, 18.3% of total revenue in the previous year.

EPS for the quarter is at Rs. 4.36 as against Rs. 2.16 in the previous quarter and Rs. 6.37 in Mar’15 quarter. For the Year it is at Rs.10.03 against Rs. 19.98 in the previous year.

In terms of foreign currency hedges, on March 31 we had USD 6.47 million dollars of forward contracts at an average rate of 68.92. There is a mark-to-market gain of Rs. 32.88 lakhs which is taken to hedging reserve in the balance sheet.


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Revenue contribution from the top 5 clients for the quarter is 40% against 44% previous quarter.

The order book position is Rs. 361.3 crore including Rs. 314.8 crore of products business and Rs. 46.6 crore of projects and services business. In December 31, 2015 the order book position was Rs. 342.7 crore including Rs. 301.7 crore of products business and Rs. 41 crore of projects and services business.

Total Cash and cash equivalents as on March 31, 2016 are Rs. 368.5 crore against Rs. 372.1 crore as on December 31, 2015. This includes balances in current accounts of Rs. 18.5 crore, liquid fund schemes of mutual funds Rs. 119.8 crore, Rs. 32 crore in fixed maturity plans, fixed deposits with banks of Rs. 105.6 crore, investments in tax free bonds of Rs. 77.7 crore and Rs. 14.9 crore in Preference shares.

With regard to receivables, we are at Rs. 86 crore against Rs. 99.4 crore previous quarter.

During the quarter, there is a gross addition of fixed assets of Rs. 1.76 crore, consisting primarily of Rs. 1.02 crore computers equipment’s and Rs. 0.04 crore on software licenses.

I’ll now hand over to R. P. for his updates. R. P. Singh: Thank you Ashish, and good evening everybody. After the release of both products which came out in January, we have been working on the next release which is due on July for both the products. In FinnAxia we will be coming out with enhanced version of our corporate internet front end which we wanted to improve to enhance the experience of the corporate customers. And other capabilities include withholding tax handling, DDI warehousing and bill payments among, of course, a lot of other smaller value features that we have been putting in. In FinnOne Neo, we are largely working on enhancing capabilities to handle tractor variances and specializations, value-added products, handling and consumer durables amongst again a lot of other features which we have come as feedback from our customers. And basically aiming to support their business. Our latest analytics product which I talked of last time has received extremely good response from our customers in the market. Actually, exposed it to a large segment of our existing customers and we are on the verge probably of starting out with our first


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early adopter very, very soon. We also came out with a new mobility solution which we have named mApply which is where borrowers are able to directly process their loan applications over the mobile. And the good news is it is already under roll out with one of our customers. So, that’s all from the product side. Over to Avnish. Avnish Datt: Good evening everybody and thanks for your interest in the call today. Let me give you a summary of how the year was for us from a sales and marketing standpoint. As I’ve shared with some of you over the last few calls, we continue to build forays into Europe. We’ve got a beginning in the first quarter and then subsequently another new logo in Europe for our lending product. This is for a central European company where we expect to continue to deepen by selling for more lines of businesses. We also had good swing in Japan where we sold our lending platform to two new logos again. These are Japanese organizations investing in South East Asia. We had a good beginning with cloud where we got our second customer in the quarter that just went by. In India we continue to further build on our market leadership. We sold our collections platform to one of the largest lenders in the country. We had earlier in the year sold our full lending suite to one of the largest private sector lenders in the country. We also continue to build momentum selling mobility suite to our existing customers. We got, this year, the first cash management order for our new FinnAxia suite of products from a South East Asian bank which is one of the leaders in the region for their Indian operations. In the last quarter, we actually deepened our engagement with our Australian customer where we went live with the product for their broker channels. So now the same customer would be able to originate loans for their customers from their large broker channel which is a very large channel for Australian banks. Where we faced a little bit of macro headwind was in Middle East and Africa, quite expected because of the oil crisis. In both geographies we saw decisions becoming a little bit more sluggish and cautious. We will see how that goes in the coming year. From the marketing standpoint, I think we continue to get industries accumulation. Vishnu mentioned about Forrester talking about us as one of the five players, leading players in the mobility theatre. We also got industry recognition from Celent, but what I would encourage you to do is to go to our website and see some glowing testimonials from our customers which have recently been put there.


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So, overall I think a good year and we continue to march along the journey of transformation. Thank you. Let me now pass it over to Pankaj for news on professional services. Pankaj Bhatt: Hello. Good afternoon. I’ll give you some inputs on the modules that we have implemented this year. Actually overall financial year we had 28 modules encompassing our flagship FinnOne product plus the mobility and FinnAxia. We have also implemented for some of the key customers including Bank of Queensland in Australia and DCB Bank in India. That’s all from my side. Thank you. Gaurav Agarwal: Thank you, sir. With this, we are now open for the Q&A session. I will now hand it over to Souradip. Vaibhav: Hi, team, this is Vaibhav and I am an individual investor. I have a couple of questions, actually, four questions. So, I will just go one by one. First is around employee expenses that we have been incorporating into our financials on quarter-to-quarter basis. So, from around 60 crores in September it has come down to 51 crores in March. So, can you just help me understand this variation along with the number of employees that are there as of March? Ashish Nanda: As far as the number of employees for the quarter ended is 1565 as of March end. See, the reason for this fall in the personnel expenses is primarily on account of, we have been providing for our compensations to employees based some achievements of targets which are there and looking at internal from a target position, as the targets had not been completely been achieved so they have been lowered in view of the overall situation for the organization. So, that is the primary reason for the decline in the personnel cost in the current quarter.


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Vaibhav: So, basically what you mean to say is that you were accruing it based on estimating that it is going to be achieved and then the targets were not achieved. Ashish Nanda: So, just to give you an idea, on a quarterly-on-quarterly basis as you’re aware that companies provide on an accrual basis based on estimated targets which are going be there. In the earlier quarters also, it was based on estimated achievement targets. However, when we came closer to the year it became more firm, and therefore there were reversals in the current year for the provisions made in the early quarter based on the achievement of targets. Vaibhav: So, is this achievement of targets related to sales or this is achievement of targets related to implementations, this is broadly in which section of that? Ashish Nanda: It’s an overall basis, it’s a mix of multiple things. It’s an overall reflection because personnel cost as you know is an overall personnel cost, be it sales, be it product development, be it implementation. Each of the divisions have their own KPIs or the Key Performance Indicators and the achievement of targets are aligned to that. So, depending on each of the targets there are forecasts which are carried on, and based on that itself it has been arrived at. Vaibhav: Alright. I’ve been kind of following the company for a long time now. This kind of thing has never happened in last two to three years. So, I mean I just want to understand for the current year has they given kind of high targets to employees and then related to the earlier years and then at the end of the year we realize that it is not going match, So that’s why there is variability or I mean in earlier years such fluctuations were not there. Ashish Nanda: It is not about higher or lower. There are internal benchmarks which have been set up. There can be a certain degrees of flexibility on achievement of targets and management


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discretion which have been used. So, therefore it is not about higher or lower. However, it is based on whatever management felt on achievement basis it has provided for that. The cost also has never been that high in the past which is there. So, in percentage terms, you can do it. The variability is not very high. Avnish, would you like to add something to it. Avnish Datt: Yes. Thanks Ashish. Vaibhav, I think it’s a good question. Just to add to what Ashish has said. We have shared with all of you in the past calls. We had added a sales team which is a fairly high cost sales team coming from very pedigreed multinational organizations who are used to working on much more liberal split of fixed and variable compensations. This is not the model that we traditionally had in place earlier which is why you see any kind of personal target if that gets missed, then there is a significant impact on the personnel cost more than we traditionally had. Vaibhav: Okay, I understand. Moving on to my second question. I’ve been following a couple of product companies listed in India and I’ve been following Intellect Design as well, and they have in the current quarter changed their accounting practice of recognizing product development cost and they will start capitalizing it from next quarter and current quarter onwards. Just wanted to understand about your accounting practice. I mean, current accounting practice is really conservative and I personally really like it. I don’t know about other shareholders but I would prefer company to continue with the current accounting practice, and just wanted to have your view that whether you have such kind of things in mind to change it or not. Ashish Nanda: Nothing has changed in Indian accounting standards which warrants us to change any of our accounting practices. In Indian terms, accounting standard 16 which deals with accounting for intangible, there has been no change into that and therefore we’ll continue to recognize the cost as we’ve been doing. Vaibhav: Okay. Now, another two questions from slightly longer term perspective and just wanted to hear Vishnu’s views on that. I was given the long-term focus and kind of focus on achieving excellence that the company has. I was wondering whether management of the company is thinking about succession planning within the company and how


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probably who will be the CEO or MD in 2030 or 2025 for this company. This question I’m asking just because I have followed company for a long time and in my assessment the company is really focused on very long term business plans and succession planning is really important to achieve such kind of things. So, just wanted to hear management views on this. Vishnu R. Dusad: You couldn’t have asked this question at a more appropriate time, Vaibhav. Our nominations committee has really instructed us to look at its critical issue of succession planning very closely. In near future we are going to spend a lot of attention on this particular factor. So, as and when we have something to report, we will let you know. Vaibhav: Thanks a lot Vishnu for that. Well, last question from my end. As I was kind of looking into history of the company I came to know that, Mr. Arun Jain of Intellect and Vishnu, I think both of you started this company together if I’m not wrong. And then subsequently down the line has kind of parted ways. I also looked at the markets that are being kind of targeted by both Intellect and by Nucleus, and there’s kind of high degree of exclusivity in target markets of both the companies. We just wanted to understand is there any kind of arrangement between Nucleus and Intellect to segregate your geographical markets. I just wanted to hear views around relationship with Intellect and Mr. Arun Jain, because I think Mr. Arun Jain also have some, I think if I’m not wrong 3-4% stake in the company? Ashish Nanda: Barring the stakes, there are no contractual obligations either from their side or from our side with the Intellect. That is all we can say. Vaibhav: Okay. I think that’s it from my side. I have all my questions answered. Thank you. Vishnu R. Dusad: Thank you for your interest.


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Anant Jain: Hello and thanks for the opportunity. Vishnu R. Dusad: Yes. Welcome, please go ahead. Anant Jain: So, my first question is every year you disclose the order book position. This year I did not hear anything on that. Ashish Nanda: You might have missed it. Just to repeat, in my brief during my call, the order position is Rs. 361.3 crores including Rs. 314.8 crores of product business and Rs. 46.6 crores of project and services business. In December 31st, 2015 the order book position was Rs. 342.7 crores including Rs. 301.7 crores of product business and Rs. 41 crores about the project and services business. Anant Jain: Can you repeat the current product business order book? Ashish Nanda: The 31st March position is total order book is Rs. 361.3 crores out of which Rs. 314.8 belongs to product business. Anant Jain: So, the second question that I have is that during this year there has been a substantial decline in profits from India business. Any reasons for that? Ashish Nanda: Overall, if you look at the decline it is primarily on account of investments if you’ve been tracking our calls, it says significant investment have gone into product as well as sales which are the key functions to the organization. They are the primary reasons for the India segment decline because there was investments which the company has made


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and would continue to make for some time further which has resulted in decline in profits. Anant Jain: Okay. The third question that I have is there’s an element of goodwill that has come into our books. Can you explain that 3 crores 17 lakhs element of goodwill? Ashish Nanda: As Vishnu updated, we made our first acquisition in the current quarter in a company, which we find great synergies and great future. So, the goodwill is on account of the payment made in excess of the assets, net assets acquired. Anant Jain: Okay. So, that comes down. Okay. The next question that I have is, there is a considerable jump in other current liabilities, so it’s moved from say Rs. 65.7 crore yoy basis to Rs. 83.4 crore. So, out of this how much is, of course you will be disclosing them in the AR but I just wanted to know out of this, how much is the advances from customers and how much is the differed revenue. Ashish Nanda: Just give me a second, I can give that figure to you. If you can go to the next question, we’ll come back to this in a while. Anant Jain: So, the next question that I have is that we were going for a field trial for our Payse solution. How is the trial coming along? The idea was to expand it to more districts like from a village to a district and so on. So, at what stage is that and who are our partners in this endeavor? Ashutosh Pande: Thanks for your question and interest on financial inclusion. Our trials have been going out now with one partner for almost five months and we as of the new financial year, had signed two commercial contracts. It’s a little bit early for us to announce the name but I can say that the trials have gone successfully and we’ve converted two of the trials into commercial engagements.


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Anant Jain: Okay. So, I agree that this is in a trial state. I understand that. So, do you expect any significant contribution in the next two years, one year, and three years, like what is the timeframe that you expect to contribute significantly to our top line? Ashutosh Pande: Yes. As Vishnu mentioned, PaySe is the world’s first offline digital cash solution. So it’s a new product category. This is not a digital wallet. This is digital cash and hence it will take some time for adoption. And what we are seeing is our early customers, really we are in the techno-enthusiast space right now, that’s where we are getting our customers who see the value that technology can deliver to the operation. We do see that it will be another year, year-and-a-half before we come to the early adopter stage, and that’s really when we would say that revenue will start kicking in higher numbers. Anant Jain: There are also competitive products. Like, recently I was going through this I think Mahindra probably I guess, I’m unable to recall, but I went through them and they have also launched similar competitive products. I’m unable to analyze them closely but is there a similarity in the products which have been launched by our competitors as well? Is there like similar products that have been launched by some of our other peers, competitors? Ashutosh Pande: Well, so maybe you’re referring to Mobiquity Money from Mahindra and of course there are a couple of other providers that are coming in. The key difference is all of these solutions are online solutions. They require connectivity. Anant Jain: Okay. Ashutosh Pande: If you look at even the recent report that has come and some of the challenges we face in the very last mile delivery of DBT whereas Adhaar and mobile has allowed the transfer of funds to the block level, it is still falling short of getting the funds down to the


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village level. And that is where we feel that our solution is complimentary. So, we don’t look at them as competitors but more as our partners. Anant Jain: So, if I were to think about what PaySe is doing, is it more like suited for the MFI industry? Ashutosh Pande: PaySe is digital cash. So, if you look at it, cash is used in very industry. And any industry that is carrying cash, be it the MSI industry or even the new age e-commerce where the cash on delivery COD market itself is about 12 billion US dollars last year and will move to about 20 billion US dollars this year in India alone. PaySe has a play in it. Anant Jain: Okay. So, that’s it on PaySe. Now, the question is that I come to employee expenses, which has been asked earlier also. My question here is that there is this variability of employee expenses. Will this continue here on because as explanation given was that it was a performance-based variability? So, can we see this variance of moving up to 60 crores, coming down to 51 crores and then this kind of variability? I mean, is this variability going to remain? Ashish Nanda: I can explain it again what I have mentioned to the earlier caller also is the fact that accruals were made based on estimation where we are coming to. As Avnish also mentioned, the targets were set sometimes in a binary measure also. Either you achieve it or you don’t achieve it. So, very closely we as an organization with a target in future will always like to achieve a target and therefore provisions will be made based on our best estimates. And therefore the variability was very, very situational. Now, whether this we’ll continue the next year, I as a CFO would not like that to happen because we will like to meet our target, we will like to pay what we have promised. So, variability will it come or not, it will be the earlier situation depending on as the situation arises. Anant Jain: Okay. So, the other question that I have is mainly on what are the views of So, essentially if I were to look into a company’s performance in say last four or five years


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we are sitting on a decent amount of cash and that seems to be like a large contribution, if I just look at it from a PAT number, comes from our other income. Now, what it does is that a return on capital has been actually bad. It’s been bad. So, what are the views of the management on return on capital? I mean, how do they see that evolving going ahead? Ashish Nanda: Your question is valid and I appreciate from that perspective. However, if you’ve been tracking, we would like to go for investment where we feel synergies are there, and we are very selective in what we do. We made our first go in the quarter by investing small sum but where we very well were confident about what synergies can be there and what we can expect from the company. Very closely this has been our strategy in the past and my personal feeling is long term we will remain the same, though we are closely looking at products and areas where there are synergies which can bring great value to what Nucleus has to offer to their customer’s existing rate. Vishnu, anything would you like to add on that? Vishnu R. Dusad: That’s right. We are actively looking at technologies or domains which would complement our existing offerings and we would as in when we make decisions we will let you know. Anant Jain: That part is understandable but it still doesn’t like answer the return, low return on capital that happened in the last let’s say three, four years. I mean, is that a parameter of performance evaluation a company has or is it just not a parameter that we are interested in, the return of capital employed. Ashish Nanda: Yes, that is a parameter you rightly said and it is the evaluator. Let me assure you that it is a concern which everybody has but at the same time, we would like to be more conservative from our perspective when it comes to spending on cash.


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Anant Jain: Okay my last question here is now when I look at the IT industry in India there is a lot of talks about M&A, Merger and Acquisitions going on. Does the company have any such offers? Is the company in talks with anybody else? I mean are we looking into it or are we not? We want to stay independent? Ashish Nanda: We don’t give any futuristic guidance as of now. That is all I can say. And as and when we have something for you definitely we will come back to all our investors. Anant Jain: No. My question, is not about a guidance but are we open to such things or like we want to stay independent? Vishnu R. Dusad: Stay independent Anant Jain: Okay. So, about the current liability part, I was looking for numbers. Ashish Nanda: So, on a consolidated basis the current liabilities have moved up from Rs. 65 crores on the last March if I look at Rs.83.47 crores on a consolidated basis which is primarily because of the increase in our advance from customers which has gone up by Rs. 6 crores and a deferred revenue which is an advance billing which we do for our maintenance contracts to Rs.38 crores. In any case, more details will be provided as and when we come out with our results, published balance sheet very soon. Anant Jain: So, just one thing. This 6 crore increase is in comparison to the last year.


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Ashish Nanda: Yes, in comparison to the March 2015. Anant Jain: Okay, that’s it from my side. Thanks. Ashish Nanda: Thank you. Digant: I just wanted to check that at what level of revenues we reach our previous level of profit. So I think FY14-15 we generated profits of say, close to Rs. 60 crores and I think this time the number is down to half of that. That’s 33. I understand that we did a lot of employee investment and that is the reason why it happened, but probably at what levels of revenue do you as management think we can return back to the past level of profitability? Ashish Nanda: See, looking at the current expenditures and what we have from our very clear perspective, my estimate is if we reached to levels of around 450 crores per annum we’ll be reaching back to our old percentage to around 15-18%. That is where we have been. Avnish Datt: Just to add to that, Digant. I think the principle is that we were putting the machinery together investing in sales, investing in marketing, investing in the product. I think we have started seeing that the investments have started returning on themselves now, and with each incremental dollar spent from here on I think we would see more release in terms of surplus. Digant: Okay. So, when you say that we have started seeing some traction of these, I think we started making investments close to December 2014. That’s when we started changing track and saying that the FinnOne product and FinnOne Neo is ready and we are trying to ramp up the sales team and the sales model. So, I think that was the first quarter


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where your order books shot up from say 235 crores to 350 crores. So, as I see last year March we had an order book of 353 crores. This year March we have an order book of 361 crores. So, I think in the last four quarters on the order book basis, we haven’t gone up. So, if someone like me would read, I would just think that maybe the FinnOne product is not clicking enough because one year could be a good enough time to at least get some order wins, and we don’t hear any large bank except for DCB in India where we have done an implementation or maybe it’s under way. Avnish Datt: So, Digant, like I said, the way we track whether we are getting enough traction is through the pipeline. As we’ve I think shared, before the sales cycles have become longer because we are selling more based on the value of the road map and the value of what is in the GA version of the product, which is different from how we were selling earlier. The pipeline has shown impressive progress, which is what gives us to believe that not only is the market finding it attractive, the sales people are now able to position the value of the product. Digant: Okay. So, in India we have been able to get orders from the large private banks because I guess DCB we have done successful and we also get good feedback from them that they were happy with the product, but have we been able to do something with the larger ones. Avnish Datt: Yes, without naming, let me share with you that we have implementations of the new product underway with some of the largest banks in India, both public and private sector. This is across a mix of our modules of lending suite. In fact, one of the largest private sector lender we have, we are implementing the entire suite. On the public sector, we are implementing collections, talking about originations. So, there is a lot of activity both in terms of MBFCs as well as large banks. Digant: Okay, and in terms of these new FinnOne Neo installations that you get, like do we end up customizing it for the customer or it is a product that requires less customization that it used to in the past?


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Avnish Datt: Yes I think that’s a terrific question. It also allows us to explain how the new model works differently from the old model. So, in the new model because the product is on an elegant, completely fresh IT architecture we are able to build a lot of flexibility and explain that to the business of the banks. So, it is less a customization, more the parameterization and the flexibility of the product that allows the customer to meet its requirements. In the earlier product we had to do that mostly through customizations. Digant: So, would it be fair to say that your FinnOne Neo product now if you are to suppose go and have that installation at a new customer, the number of employees and the number of man hours that you would take would be lesser than a comparable installation in the past version of FinnOne? R.P. Singh: That is right. It would probably, the larger effort might go into migrating data from the old to the new or interpretations and things like that, but as the method that we follow since everything comes into the roadmap, the effort should decline. Digant: Okay. And my last question is on the NBFC side. If you look at the NBFC side especially in India, there’s been a lot of traction, there has been ten small bank licenses which have been given. There are like tons of micro finance companies who are trying to revamp their IT systems and there are these gold loan companies and everyone is moving into affordable housing, so there are tens of housing finance subsidiaries which have come up. So, do we have an offering for them because I read in the start of the call you said that you’ve customized FinnOne Neo for NBFCs? So, could that be a big segment for us in the next few years? Avnish Datt: So, let me attempt to answer it in parts, Digant. I perhaps communicated it wrongly. We didn’t customize it for NBFCs but we are talking to NBFCs. In fact some of the implementations that are going on include some of the large NBFCs right now. What I also said to you was that we have a cloud offering and we are currently implementing


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cloud for two customers. In fact, one of them has just about gone live. The other one is under implementation right now. There is a conversation happening with some of the small banks which we see as another interesting segment for us, and most of them are right now talking cloud with us. So, yes, there are active sales dialogues across all the segments that you’ve talked about and we have made openings with some of them already. Digant: Okay, Thanks. And lastly, one quantitative, I don’t know whether you can quantify it, but what would be our confidence level last March versus this March in terms of reaching that Rs. 450 crore of revenue mark some day? So because lot of things happened in the last 12 months probably which may give you some more confidence, right? Vishnu R. Dusad: Yes, 100%. Digant: Thank you. That’s all from my side and wish you all the best. Vishnu R. Dusad: Thank you. Sameer: Yes. I just want to know the non-current investments have gone up from 68 crores to 119 crores if you could clarify what this was. Ashish Nanda: Yes, just a moment. Are there any other questions you can go ahead, we can come back to this one specifically? Sameer: No, there’s no other question.


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Ashish Nanda: Okay. Souradip, can we take the next question. I will come back to the gentleman in a minute or so. Anant Jain: Thanks for the opportunity again and my question here is what kind of traction are we seeing on a cloud offering and what percentages of our current revenue coming from cloud? Avnish Datt: I probably wouldn’t have percentages for you, Anant, and the absolute percentage would be miniscule right now. As I mentioned, we got two customers on cloud already. One of them has gone live, the other one is in the process of being implemented. What is heartening to see is the conversations on the sale side that we are having on the cloud offering. There are right now at least five or six conversations in fairly advanced stages and some which are at initial stages. This is primarily from NBFCs. Anant Jain: Okay. So, of two customers, one is already on cloud. So, he’s gone live, right? Avnish Datt: Right. Anant Jain: And one, we are currently on implementation and we are having conversations with some five to six. Again, like the same question. When do we see cloud becoming a substantial part of our revenue? I mean, substantially in a terms of around 10% or more than 10%. Avnish Datt: I think that should happen in the short term. In fact, it’s really the maturity of the customers and what is it that they are expecting in cloud which sometimes takes time but the usual concerns about cloud which used to relate to security, they are largely settled in the minds of our customers now. So, I personally see lot more traction with


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cloud in the coming year, and our pipeline has started to build up on cloud so I think it’s a good sign. In fact, the thought process is once we have cloud firmly established in India, we are looking at serving other geographies through a cloud offering, and notably South East Asia. Anant Jain: So, if I said like at end of FY17 we’ll have around 10% from cloud or FY18 10% coming from cloud on revenues? Avnish Datt: I would say I would be surprised if it’s not that much. Anant Jain: FY17? Avnish Datt: Sorry FY18. Anant Jain: FY18, okay. That’s good. Thanks for the answers. Ashish Nanda: Yes and just to come back to the gentleman who had asked about the increase in non-current investments, from 31st March 2015 to 31st March 2016 there has been increase of by almost Rs. 51 crores. Primarily our investments which have gone up either in terms of FMPs which we have invested out of the current surplus or in the tax-free bonds, and the reason for their classification is because of the long-term view but which we are holding the investments to maturity. Moderator: Does that answer your question, Mr. Sameer? Sameer: Yes, it does.


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Rahul Jain: My question is when we can see this much better volume traction because most of the peers in this sector are seeing better traction or if you could even share in terms of what are the leading indicators that one could track to understand that things are turning better for our client space? Avnish Datt: Rahul, the leading indicator in our business is really the pipeline of individual regions which is showing a sharp uptake. Like I said, it is the sales cycle that has gotten more complex because of the fact that we are selling the roadmap and not selling customizations any longer. What we’ve also done this time is segmented the pipeline far more rigorously so that we do not discover at the latter end of the sale cycle that is probably not the best fit for us to have that customer and for the customer to have that product. So, I think in terms of the hygiene criteria, we are seeing a good quality pipeline building up in most of the regions except, as I mentioned earlier, Middle East and Africa. So, that is really one of the most definite of leading indicators for us. Rahul Jain: Okay. And as we have said that we have won six orders in Q4 out of 13, is it more because of the seasonality factor we can say that this is the early sign of the pickup and demand which we are seeing among our clientele? Avnish Datt: Yes. I mean, there’s always the flavor of the sudden vigor that you see in the sales team end of the year but if we take that flavor out, I think it is more an indicator of the whole engine is starting to hum in a more synchronous fashion. So, sales, pre-sales, marketing, product, professional services all come in together and starting to move in tandem. I think it’s more a trend line less a seasonality. In any case, there is no seasonality here because across different geographies there are different fiscal years. It is really the sales vigor which is dictated more by the end of our fiscal year. But I think predominantly it is that things are coming together and it’s more like a trend line.


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Rahul Jain: Okay. And you also have mentioned that 28 modules were successfully implemented. So, is it for the licenses which we would have gone in the previous year and most of the modules were implemented or these are part of some bigger deal where some modules were implemented in the previous fiscal and some year because the number of client win is much less than the total module that we have implemented? Pankaj Bhatt: So, the combination of products, some for this fiscal and some continuing from the previous. Avnish Datt: And just one distinction, Rahul, when we say customer, a customer typically could have multiple modules and mostly does have multiple modules. Vishnu R. Dusad: And in multiple countries too. Rahul Jain: So, basically multiple geography would be seen as a different implementation. Avnish Datt: Yes, absolutely. Rahul Jain: Okay. Is it possible to share the license revenue component of our total revenue for this year and previous year? Ashish Nanda: We mentioned that we track it as a product revenue and therefore this figure we don’t track separately. We track product versus services, so this figure may not be available.


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Rahul Jain: It would help to understand the traction, because it tends to become a leading indicator. Ashish Nanda: The Clear indication as I would see is if you look at marginally improvements on a period-on-period basis, our product revenue has been going up in comparison to services. So, that is an indicator with which we work on. It is not only licenses but there are many ancillary product stream which are very critical to us and therefore we track product as one component versus services. Rahul Jain: Okay. And from a geographic trend perspective, if you could give some flavor in terms of how we are seeing market in various market that we are targeting in terms of the comfort level of client in spending such discretionary allocation or moving to new product or any other flavors that you could give on a geographic basis. Avnish Datt: So, I think the pipeline buildup is quite secular right now. India still is a significant contributor to the pipeline. I would say India followed by South East Asia followed by right now Australia is actually showing good progress in terms of pipeline. Europe we have a small pipeline but a focused pipeline. Middle East and Africa continue to be modest in terms of what we thought they could be potential for. Rahul Jain: Okay. But we did fairly well in Europe in revenue terms. Is it based on the past wins. Ashish Nanda: It was primarily because of the past wins. Rahul Jain: Okay. And lastly, I think this is different way of a question which has been asked in past is that we said the sales has increased significantly given the kind of hiring that we have


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done which is required for the business but how and when we see those results actually percolating into benefits for the company? Avnish Datt: I think a combination of everything. Like I said, the pipeline is looking healthy and impressive but the pipeline translation to orders and orders translation to revenue is still a long cycle. So, we expect it to play out in this year and then continue to play out in the year after this. Rahul Jain: And from a budgeting perspective, if you could help that how we are defining the location, in case if the revenue momentum does not pick up, obviously our commitment towards sales is there and we would always like to put money into R&D to ensure that we are aligned with the requirement of the technology changes that are very much progressive in today’s time. So, how we balance out our profitability in a longer times perspective if the revenue momentum take time to pickup? Avnish Datt: I think one element is as I mentioned earlier, the sales compensation is more variabalized which means that is predicated on what comes into the table. If the performance flattens, then at least that part of the cost gets, you know there is a balancing effect of that. Ashish, do you want to add anything? Ashish Nanda: Yes, there is another mechanism which consciously the management has started putting in more rigor, it was always there, but some more rigor on cost management also, it has been monitored on a much rigorous and a close manner, not to say it was not there earlier, it was always there. However, some more rigor and sensitivity to the fact that in case the revenues are not commensurate and we still want to make investments if we don’t want to compromise, then there will be consciousness and there will be steps which will be taken and plans are made according to that. Rahul Jain: Okay. Fair enough. That’s it from my side, thanks a lot.


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Ashish Nanda: Thank you. Jaineel: Thanks for taking my questions. My first question is basically I wanted to know what are the size of the acquisition that you have made last quarter, how big was it in terms of total value of the deal. Ashish Nanda: See, it was not very significant the initial steps we have taken to come across, it is within the range of Rs. 5 crores. Jaineel: Okay. And in terms of future acquisitions, what are the kind of, like how big of an acquisition are you looking to do? Ashish Nanda: See, as we had mentioned earlier also, we are interested in the relevance of the thing, then depending on how relevant it is to our scheme of arrangements, we will definitely cater to that, anywhere ranging from 10 to 25, maybe more than that, depending on relevance. It totally depends how much we can synergize and how much we see value in the proposition, we were ready to spend money on it. We’re open to it but it totally depends on how relevant it is to our future scheme of arrangements. Jaineel: Right. But no, I’m just trying to understand that would we be willing to even take on debt for acquisitions or are not looking at anything that big? Ashish Nanda: No, if you have been tracking our company, we are ultra conservative, debt it is not a proposition right now in our minds at least.


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Avnish Datt: Even strategically. I think our core thought has always been that we need to be comfortable such that we don’t get too invested in any particular way of strategic growth. That has what has allowed us to invest significantly in sales and marketing resources, in opening up more foreign offices, and we would continue to want to be prepared for managing any disruptions that happen in the Finn Tech space. Jaineel: Okay. No, I guess, like why I was trying to understand all of this is we have about Rs.360some crores on the balance sheet in terms of cash. And we are not going to do a very big acquisition. I think for shareholders who are going to be with you for a longer time, I think wouldn’t this be a good time to buy back shares in the company? Ashish Nanda: Yes, all kinds of options are, we’ll look into from that perspective and we cognizant of this fact which you are making. Jaineel: Okay. So but say when can we expect some kind of announcement, if you know your acquisition strategy, then can we hear about something in the next one year, in the next two years? Ashish Nanda: We’ll come back when the time is appropriate. Jaineel: Okay. But you all feel that the stock price reflects the kind of company that Nucleus is or not? Vishnu R. Dusad: That is for you to decide.


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Jaineel: I know. I’m asking for your read on the kind of markets. For me, I obviously feel like it’s not reflecting, which is why I’m invested. But it also matters what your all are thinking. Ashish Nanda: See, we all believe that the efforts are to be made towards the business and try to be derivative, and we believe in long-term strategy, as somebody said in the beginning very rightly, about succession planning, if you were there on the call at that time. Jaineel: Right. Ashish Nanda: We really, really believe long term, Vishnu had made it very clear that we want to stay independent. It give you all the indications which we are looking for. Jaineel: Okay. Thank you so much. Ashish Nanda: Thank you. Shalabh: Good evening gentlemen and thank you for giving me this opportunity. Sir, the first question is on there was some mention by R. P. on analytics module. I just wanted to check, given a significant share on retail origination loans. Do we have a module, analytics module which analyzes all this data and might throw up intelligent data to the banks or the banks use their own data, own softwares to analyze such data? R.P. Singh: Currently the banks would be using some other data to do analysis, and that’s where we come in. And typically positioning wise what we have done is our analytics piece is of course in the pace it is pretty much a statistical modeling tool, but it has actually been


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tuned and designed for lending businesses. Which means actually our objective was to support it in all the fronts, which means it supports on what you’re saying, which is with our tool we would be able to take a data of the bank which probably will come from our own processing products and come out with internal score cards and credit criteria pertaining to health of the kind of sales or the credit behavior or existing or historical loans. So that one place where we add value to business. The other end of the entire cycle where we deliver value is in collection. So where a customer goes delinquent, you can actually pursue him for repayment in multiple modes. And typically there are strategies which are applied on optimizing collections versus cost or incurred for that collection. Once again the analytics piece takes data from our own collections product, comes up with new strategies that could be moved to make the whole corporation more successful. Of course the third side is where we take performance data from our loan-servicing piece so that we can identify up-sell, cross-sell prospects within the customer base. So generic tools will be like SaS and others who would allow you to do all this but in a more complex manner. We’ve simplified it for the lending business and allows businesses to do this kind of analytics in a much, much more convenient and easier way. Shalabh: Sure. These modules are already existing in FinnOne Neo? R.P. Singh: So this is another module, that’s right. But we kind of worked a lot on it last year and launched it about now four months back, I mean launched in the sense that we are, as I mentioned in my talk, we are in closure with the earliest adopter and then we’ve managed to show it to in fact more than two dozen customers to get a feedback on relevance, which has been very, very positive. So in future, it’s again one of our revamp phase. We used to have it earlier but made far easier to use and far more interactive. Shalabh: Sure. And these modules can also work with other vendors’ products, especially like analytics module.


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R.P.Singh: You’re absolutely right. So it can take data of any sort. As I mentioned, it has been tuned for lending. Shalabh: Sure. R.P. Singh: That’s about it. But yes, you are right, the data can be imported by the tool in any form and in any format actually. And any type of data. It’s not even fixed. So depending on what data is provided, it can do analytics on that. Shalabh: Okay. Do you think this can be a decent size opportunity maybe a couple of years down the line? It can become a bigger opportunity. R.P.Singh: So we definitely saw it like that, that’s why we invent it, not only as an extension to our own Neo Suite processing suite but also as entry strategy to other implementations. Shalabh: Sure. That is really helpful. Sir, the second question is there was a mention about how there were some deviation in terms of the earlier expectations which was set in internally and how some of the targets not being met, I wanted to know typically what the reasons are or why such deviations happen. Is it because customers are still waiting for some bigger implementations to go through or in some geographies we face more competition than probably what we had thought. If you can throw some light on that, that would be very helpful. Avnish Datt: Sorry, may I get your name again, please?


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Shalabh: My name is Shalabh Agarwal. Avnish Datt: Shalabh, I think it’s a combination of quite a few things, but I would say one of them also is the way we are learning about the forecastability of this business. A license sale is a very lumpy sale. And on a long sales cycle, if I’m, for example, I’m projecting a closure in March but it happens in April, it is a big amount that is moving from one year to the other year. So because it is early days in the new models, we still do not have enough statistical, I don’t know what is the expression for it, but we don’t have enough statistical size of opportunities to replace a delayed deal by another one for one. Am I communicating this to you well? Not yet? Shalabh: Which is where we felt we should be able to come up with more deals in case the other deals are taking time or other deals are not fructifying, right? Avnish Datt: You are absolutely right. That is what we are expecting to happen much better this year, because it happens when you have a starting pipeline base which allows this to happen. When the base is small and your numbers are hinging on a small finite set of deals, it becomes difficult to replace a large deal by another large deal. Shalabh: Sure, sure in terms of the pipeline, suppose it was 100 last year, how it is now, just in a scale of 100, just to get a sense of how the pipeline has improved. Avnish Datt: That’s a good question. The pipeline improvement is actually on two dimensions. One, the quantity of pipeline and also the quality of pipeline. Shalabh: Sure.


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Avnish Datt: This way, the way we reviewed the pipeline was by having our project experts swift through the opportunities and seeing whether there is a good fit between our product and the roadmap and the customers’ requirements. So I think both quality and quantity are more satisfactory as we step into this year. Suffice it to say that the beginning pipeline this year is substantially over and above the beginning pipeline last year. Shalabh: Sure, that’s very heartening to know. The other thing I wanted to check is are there cases of customers who are waiting for a bigger implementation to go through and then take a call on whether to move to FinnOne Neo or not? Because I guess DCB was not that big implementation. Avnish Datt: I think this current implementations going on are very large in size. Frankly I’m trying to remember if any customer has explicitly voiced that as a concern. Most of our reference conversations that we’ve organized between some of our prospects and, for example, DCB, I haven’t heard this as a concern yet. It’s an interesting one, we should examine it further, but it hasn’t come out as an explicit concern yet. Shalabh: Does that mean when one of the largest implementation that we are implementing currently when it goes live in the next quarter or so, it will not really add meaningfully to our pitch of cracking new deals? Avnish Datt: Yes, I think a very interesting point. I think a very large implementation probably gives us more muscle in geographies like Australia when we hit tier-one banks there. Of course, a very large name has its own pull with customers. But I don’t think that we have seen that as a constraint yet. Shalabh: Sure. And sir, lastly, if you can just highlight the acquisition that we did, in which field was it and how one is expected to see that business growing up in next couple of years.


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Vishnu R. Dusad: Thanks for asking that question. Acquisition is in the field of logistics, as I mentioned in my opening comments. We visualize that thanks to e-commerce, logistics and payment, both these domains are going to come together very close. They’ll be working very, very closely. That’s where we visualize some synergies coming out of these acquisitions. It was in that direction that we decided to take this on. Shalabh: So this will be a completely new set of business for us because the clients and the product is entirely different, right? Vishnu R. Dusad: I would say yes and no. No because banks are also playing a role in e-commerce and logistics, I mean more in e-commerce and hence logistics would also be in some manner there extension too, and logistics are along with payment. This is the combination that we are talking about. Shalabh: Sure. Just one more thing. I noticed there was a reduction in the head count. I think earlier we were upwards of 1600, now we are around 1560. Is it a natural attrition or is that also related to the objective not being met or targets not being met? Ashish Nanda: See, the headcount which was upwards of 1600 was to be precise 1603 and we are at 1565, as the size and level of 1500-1600, a 35 shift from here to here is a very insignificant, minor. Shalabh: Is it a natural attrition? Ashish Nanda: It’s a very natural attrition, no specific actions.


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Shalabh: The PaySe thing, is that completely owned by Nucleus or is it into some other company and is it completely owned by Nuclues Software? Vishnu R. Dusad: Yes. It has been fully incubated within Nucleus. Shalabh: Okay, sir, thank you for taking my questions, and all the best to you. Vishnu R. Dusad: Thank you. Aditya: I’d be interested to knowing your Australian and Middle East operations have performed very poorly. Can you just comment on that? Ashish Nanda: From an order addition perspective, there are not significant additions, therefore, the revenues which we are looking are at the traditional repeat business primarily which are there with some additions on there. Australia we are working on to get things and pipeline as Avnish mentioned is strengthening. We are expecting to have strengthening in the Australian region. Middle East as you are aware the oil crisis has really hit really bad in the overall region. Avnish, if you’d like to add further to what I said. Avnish Datt: No, absolutely right, Ashish. And just to go probably half an inch deeper into that, Australia, this is a mature market in terms of the sophistication of banks. So the sales cycle is going to be longer because the procurement process of technology is the governance on that, the various functions involved is far more intense and complex. We have now had a couple of sales people there for around a year. One of them has been slightly more than a year, the other one has been slightly less than a year. But the pipeline is building up and we would see more action in Australia this year.


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So Australia is really not disappointing in that sense at all. It is moving exactly as per our expectations give or take. Middle East, like, Ashish said, because of micro headwinds we expect that to continue. In fact we are trying to see how we can partner better with our customers, can we figure out some way for them to absorb their pain in these difficult times. So we are having those kind of conversations. That doesn’t mean that there is no opportunity room there because when we look at servicing module, for example, that may have caused customers deduce their overall cost of servicing alone. But by and large, that still remains a very cautious market. And for whatever we can see, it probably would continue to remain that way. Aditya: Yes, you received some dividends from the subsidiary, on the standalone numbers of around 25 crores which were not present last year. So can you just give some details for that? Ashish Nanda: See, as we expanded and as you would have seen somebody mentioned in the call also, starting December’14 and then going forward in the year there was significant investments in marketing over the years. In the current financial years, there has been a recharge on the sales and marketing activities from the overseas subsidiaries because the investments were made primarily for sales for the licenses which we are there in India. So these were the major recharges from the subsidiaries to the Indian holding company on account of sales and marketing services. Aditya: Okay, fine. Thank you, sir. That’s it. Gaurav Agarwal: We would like to thank all our investors for being in this call and having these discussions with us. I would now like to pass it on to Vishnu for his closing comments. Vishnu R. Dusad: We would like to take this opportunity to thank you all for your interest in Nucleus software. We reiterate our commitment to deliver value to all our stakeholders in the years to come. Thank you.

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