New Movement Invictas marked Swiss when in fact chinese

#1 Yesterday, 07:37 PM

DIAMANTE Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,773

New Movement Invictas marked Swiss

Has anyone noticed that some Invicta models that previously used the ETA G10 and were marked Swiss Made are now using the Ronda 5040d and are now labled simply Swiss? This includes some Reserve models as well - Akula for example. There was some discussion about this when the Amazon exclusive models appeared, particularly the Venom. It was hundreds less used the Ronda 5040d and was marked Swiss. My theory is that these models have the Asian version of the Ronda 5040d and therefore cannot be labeled Swiss Made. I asked JSkelton about this (when the Amazon Venom was being discussed) and he said he didn't know but he would ask Eyal. I don't think the quality has suffered and the Ronda 5040d (even the Asian made version) has nicer features than the ETA G10. I just want to know if my theory is correct. D __________________ Swiss Made OG II Chrono (5050c)

3 Lastest Threads by DIAMANTE

Thread Forum Last

Poster Replies Views

Last

Post

New Movement Invictas marked Swiss

General Invicta Watch Discussions Justin Time

140 1859

05-30-2010 07:37 PM

ivalentin Sales/Trade Feedback Forum ivalentin 1 11

05-11-2010 05:10 AM

3 Lastest Threads by DIAMANTE

SAN IV $619 at SNBC w/ 3VPs

General Invicta Watch Discussions Stew 10 178

04-08-2010 12:31 PM

DIAMANTE

View Public Profile

Send a private message to DIAMANTE

Find all posts by DIAMANTE

Add DIAMANTE to Your Contacts


Kahuna Cowboy Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin Texas..... Y'all Posts: 2,233 Real Name: Jeff

I have wondered the same thing. If true it is pretty shady from my point of view.

Kahuna Cowboy

View Public Profile

Send a private message to Kahuna Cowboy

Send email to Kahuna Cowboy

Find all posts by Kahuna Cowboy

Add Kahuna Cowboy to Your Contacts


Evil Empire Member

Member Geek

Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Powhatan Virginia Posts: 98 Real Name: Scott

yes we beat this subject to death earlier LOL

Evil Empire

View Public Profile

Send a private message to Evil Empire

Find all posts by Evil Empire

Add Evil Empire to Your Contacts


rjaybass Senior Member

Senior Geek

Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Cleveland,Ohio Posts: 122 Real Name: Bob Stokes

Evidently there are Russian Divers on Amazon that are not Swiss Made... __________________ [SIGPIC]

rjaybass

View Public Profile

Send a private message to rjaybass

Send email to rjaybass

Find all posts by rjaybass

Add rjaybass to Your Contacts


samuelrz Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: May 2009 Location: N. California Posts: 1,299 Real Name: Sam

Swiss and Swiss Made mean the exact same thing. Sometimes the word Swiss appears on the case back too. The vendor may even choose to not put it on there at all, but it is a selling point so they do. The wording and location are all at the discretion of the designer. If there is room on the dial, etc. Ronda 5040 movements tend to have more complications on them and some Russian Divers even have them at the 3 O'clock position. Please do a search of the forum on the subject of "Swiss vs. Swiss Made" and let's let this thread die before jumping to all sort of wild conclusions. __________________ SAM - http://www.giltman.com/invite/samuelrz

samuelrz

View Public Profile

Send a private message to samuelrz

Send email to samuelrz

Find all posts by samuelrz

Add samuelrz to Your Contacts


Flyback Senior Member

True WatchGeek

Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northern CA Posts: 17,356 Real Name: Brad

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIAMANTE My theory is that these models have the Asian version of the Ronda 5040d and therefore

cannot be labled Swiss Made.

Sorry, that wouldn't be allowed under U.S. Customs country of origin labeling regulations.

If you read the following excerpts from the regs. you will note that the country of origin of the movement must should appear on the dial or case back. A company subject to U.S. Customs regs, could not put Swiss on the dial when in fact the movement was made in Asia. U.S. Customs Regulations, 19 CFR Part 177 Chapter 91, Additional U.S. Note 4, Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States, sets

forth special marking requirements for watches and clocks:

(a) Watch movements shall be marked on one or more of the bridges or top plates to

show: (i) the name of the country of manufacture, (ii) the name of the manufacturer or purchaser, and (iii) in words, the number of jewels, if any, serving a mechanical purpose as frictional

bearings. (c) Watch cases shall be marked on the inside or outside of the back to show: (i) the name of the country of manufacture, and (ii) the name of the manufacturer or purchaser. The above movements and cases must be conspicuously and indelibly marked by cutting,

die-sinking, engraving, stamping (including by means of indelible ink), or mold-marking.

Movements with opto-electronic display only and cases designed for use therewith,

whether entered as separate articles or as components of assembled watches or clocks,

are excepted from these special marking requirements.

Watches and clocks are also subject to the normal country of origin marking requirements

of 19 U.S.C. 1304, and under these requirements, the movement’s country of origin should

appear conspicuously and legibly on the dial face or on the outside of the back. In

addition, watchbands should be marked with the country of manufacture of the band,

unless the watchband is attached in the country where the watch was produced. __________________

If n = the number of watches you have, then n + 1 = the number of watches you need!

Flyback

View Public Profile

Send a private message to Flyback

Find all posts by Flyback

Add Flyback to Your Contacts


wave3214 Senior Member

True WatchGeek

Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Tempe, suburb of Phoenix Posts: 17,567

this has been discussed many many times in the past. search is your friend __________________

wave3214

View Public Profile

Send a private message to wave3214

Find all posts by wave3214

Add wave3214 to Your Contacts



True WatchGeek


Quote:

Originally Posted by samuelrz Swiss and Swiss Made mean the exact same thing. Sometimes the word Swiss appears on

the case back too. The vendor may even choose to not put it on there at all, but it is a

selling point so they do. The wording and location are all at the discretion of the

designer. If there is room on the dial, etc. Ronda 5040 movements tend to have more

complications on them. Some Russian Divers even have them at the 3 O'clock position.

Please do a search of the forum on the subject of "Swiss vs. Swiss Made" and let's let

this thread die before jumping to all sort of wild conclusions.

Sorry Sam, Swiss and Swiss Made as used in the U.S. do not mean the same thing. In the U.S., Swiss Made is controlled through the Swiss Federation's USPTO registered trademark, and Federation member or not, their rules must be followed under their trademark rights. Swiss at the 6 position when used by a non-federation member in the U.S. does not necessarily mean the same as Swiss Made. It's entirely up to the non-member company's policy, so long as it complies with U.S. Customs regulations that require the movement used in the watch to be from the country of origin placed on the dial. So at a minimum, you know that a watch so labeled has a Swiss movement. __________________


Flyback

View Public Profile






True WatchGeek


Quote:

Originally Posted by wave3214 this has been discussed many many times in the past. search is your friend

Steve, it seems that the search tool isn't going to be used in this respect, and as a result, I will continue to post the fact of the matter surrounding Swiss and Swiss Made until

everyone has seen it . . . __________________


Flyback

View Public Profile






Super Geek


Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyback Sorry Sam, Swiss and Swiss Made as used in the U.S. do not mean the same thing.

In the U.S., Swiss Made is controlled through the Swiss Federation's USPTO registered

trademark, and Federation member or not, their rules must be followed under their

trademark rights.

Swiss at the 6 position when used by a non-federation member in the U.S. does not

necessarily mean the same as Swiss Made. It's entirely up to the non-member

company's policy, so long as it complies with U.S. Customs regulations that require the

movement used in the watch to be from the country of origin placed on the dial. So at a

minimum, you know that a watch so labeled has a Swiss movement.

Flyback, If customs requires the dial to be marked with the country of orgin, how did Invicta get away with the OTV carbon fiber RD's, and the Sea Spider Sport? The Sea Spider Sport was marked "Swiss," the RD "Swiss Movt" on the dial. The casebacks were labeled "Swiss Parts Movt" on both. We all know that "Swiss Parts Movt" are from the Orient in origin. So wouldn't the casebacks and dials need to be marked as such for importation?

Kahuna Cowboy

View Public Profile







Super Geek


Wait a minute, I got it now. Send a Rhonda movement to the factories in the orient for build, ship back to Switzerland for sale to watch companies. That would do it right Brad?

Kahuna Cowboy

View Public Profile






50mm&up Senior Member

True WatchGeek

Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Braintee, MA. Posts: 11,352 Real Name: Rick

From what i understand swiss and swiss made are 1 in the same. There is a swiss parts movt. 5040d but it would say that on the watch somewhere. __________________

"We remember........."

50mm&up

View Public Profile

Send a private message to 50mm&up

Send email to 50mm&up

Find all posts by 50mm&up

Add 50mm&up to Your Contacts



True WatchGeek


Quote:

Originally Posted by Kahuna Cowboy Flyback,

If customs requires the dial to be marked with the country of orgin, how did Invicta get

away with the OTV carbon fiber RD's, and the Sea Spider Sport?

The Sea Spider Sport was marked "Swiss," the RD "Swiss Movt" on the dial. The

casebacks were labeled "Swiss Parts Movt" on both.

We all know that "Swiss Parts Movt" are from the Orient in origin. So wouldn't the

casebacks and dials need to be marked as such for importation?

Excellent question, and one to which I don't have the answer. I rely on the published regs. when making my statements on the labeling issue, and there may very well be unpublished enforcement guidelines that allow this, or those who do so are just not being tagged for the non-compliance. In my thinkging, it would have to be one or the other. __________________


Flyback

View Public Profile






Super Geek


We need a Swiss Forum. __________________ SAM - http://www.giltman.com/invite/samuelrz

samuelrz

View Public Profile






dacathey Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Spring Texas Posts: 1,038 Real Name: Dave

Swiss made is the trademarked phrase. Swiss is not except for Federation members of which Invicta is not a member. So if they put a swiss parts movement in a watch labeled "swiss made" then customs would pull them and enforce the trademark. If it says swiss then nothing happens. __________________

dacathey

View Public Profile

Send a private message to dacathey

Find all posts by dacathey

Add dacathey to Your Contacts



True WatchGeek


Quote:

Originally Posted by samuelrz We need a Swiss Forum.

It's not that complicated. I've manged intellectual property both nationally and internationally for a number of companies since the mid '80s. The problem here, no matter how many times something is stated, people only remember what they want to. __________________


Flyback

View Public Profile





Time Bandit Senior Member

Veteran Geek

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 662

Quote:

Originally Posted by samuelrz We need a Swiss Forum.

Flyback, Can you put together a Sticky in the General Swiss Watch Forum? A comprehensive post, that would be used to point to, every time this comes up.

Time Bandit

View Public Profile

Send a private message to Time Bandit

Send email to Time Bandit

Find all posts by Time Bandit

Add Time Bandit to Your Contacts



True WatchGeek


Quote:

Originally Posted by Time Bandit Flyback,

Can you put together a Sticky in the General Swiss Watch Forum?

A comprehensive post, that would be used to point to, every time this comes up.

First of all, I'm just a regular member like you, so I can't put together a sticky. But if I was

asked to, I'd be happy to do so. __________________


Flyback

View Public Profile






Super Geek


Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyback It's not that complicated. I've manged intellectual property both nationally and

internationally for a number of companies since the mid '80s. The problem here, no

matter how many times something is stated, people only remember what they want to.

Another problem is that companies come out with marketing terms meant to confuse the buyer like "Swiss Parts Movement". Everyone wants to be associated with the Swiss. It happens in many industries too. I wonder what would happen if Ford used the Japanese word for Ford on their vehicles? Would you assume it was better quality because it was Japanese? Probably.

__________________ SAM - http://www.giltman.com/invite/samuelrz

samuelrz

View Public Profile






rjaybass Senior Member

Senior Geek

Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Cleveland,Ohio Posts: 122 Real Name: Bob Stokes

Their are new members joining daily I'm sure so I think some folks may not be so adept at negotiating this site for a while. Much of what I do here is done on my little iPhone screen on the fly. I'm very busy as most people are nowadays but even if it's only a minute or two to check in here I do it because I just love the whole "Invicta scene". __________________ [SIGPIC]

rjaybass

View Public Profile

Send a private message to rjaybass

Send email to rjaybass

Find all posts by rjaybass

Add rjaybass to Your Contacts



True WatchGeek


Quote:

Originally Posted by rjaybass . . . Much of what I do here is done on

my little iPhone screen on the fly. . .

Thank the Lord for my 22" monitor! __________________


Flyback

View Public Profile






True WatchGeek


Quote:

Originally Posted by Time Bandit I bet that looks funny when you hold it up to your head.

Do people stare at you?

Well . . . when you consider that I have a wireless keyboard with integrated mouse that rests in my lap while reclining in my Lazy Boy with the monitor situated about 24 inches in front and 12 inches to the right, so as not to interfere with my line of sight to my big screen TV, and that no strangers ever wonder through my living room. The answer is, no one ever stares at me regarding my internet access. However, when I'm at work or out in public wearing my cool watches, people do tend to notice. __________________


Flyback

View Public Profile




#23 Today, 12:08 AM

bigjimzlll Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Redding,CA Posts: 1,608 Real Name: Jim

So Swiss and Swiss Made mean the same thing???? OK Ok...just kidding. There only seems to be a handfull of companies that play it dead straight. Android and NFW come to mind. My advice is don't get caught up in the whole Swiss Made thing. The Swiss guidelines are a joke...watch companies don't really have any reason to follow them...and most of all, if a unscrutiable company wanted too...they could bold face lie and nothing would happen. __________________

bigjimzlll

View Public Profile

Send a private message to bigjimzlll

Find all posts by bigjimzlll

Add bigjimzlll to Your Contacts

#24 Today, 01:57 AM

unclefixit

Senior Member

Super

Geek

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Universal City, Texas (about 10 miles N.E. of San Antonio) Posts: 1,434 Real Name: Jay

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIAMANTE Has anyone noticed that some Invicta models that previously used the ETA G10 and

were marked Swiss Made are now using the Ronda 5040d and are now labled simply

Swiss?

This includes some Reserve models as well - Akula for example.

There was some discussion about this when the Amazon exlcusive models appeared,

particularly the Venom. It was hundreds less used the Ronda 5040d and was marked

Swiss.

My theory is that these models have the Asian version of the Ronda 5040d and therefore

cannot be labled Swiss Made.

I asked JSkelton about this (when the Amazon Venome was being discussed) and he said

he didn't know but he would ask Eyal.

I don't think the quality has suffered and the Ronda 5040d (even the Asian made version)

has nicer features than the ETA G10. I just want to know if my theory is correct.

D

Originally Posted by RenatoDiamond Very nice, this is one of the swiss movement (not swiss made) RD's.

Sorry Gene that would be incorrect.

The words "Swiss" or "Swiss Made", usually at the 6 o'clock position on the dail,

indicate a watch built meeting the guidelines of the Swiss Federation of Horology.

The words "Swiss Movement" (in the same font) indicate only a "Swiss built

movement" that has been encased and assymbled into a completed watch, in a non-

Swiss factory.

The words "Swiss movt." (note abbreviation) indicate a non-Swiss assymbled

movement and of course watch.

That's about as simple as I can put it. Quote:

Originally Posted by Kahuna Cowboy Flyback,

If customs requires the dial to be marked with the country of orgin, how did Invicta get

away with the OTV carbon fiber RD's, and the Sea Spider Sport?

The Sea Spider Sport was marked "Swiss," the RD "Swiss Movt" on the dial. The

casebacks were labeled "Swiss Parts Movt" on both.

We all know that "Swiss Parts Movt" are from the Orient in origin. So wouldn't the

casebacks and dials need to be marked as such for importation?

Quote: Originally Posted by 50mm&up I got a Sea Spider from InvictaShark that has a 5040D Ronda asian parts movt. It says

swiss at 6:00. lol. Anybody's guess is as good as mine and it doesn't really matter to me.

You're getting a sweet RD for $90, whats the problem?

Rick I know the watch your talking about, the Sea Spider Sport. It's the one that caused a big to-doo here because it was sold with an incorrectly

labeled dail ("Swiss" meaning Swiss Made). This mistake (by the dail manufacturer) during manufacturing wasn't caught until

after the watches were finished and ready for sale. That's why your watch is labeled as it is...doesn't mean your watch is poor in quaility

by any means. What it does mean is that you saved a hell of alot of money and got a great watch. Search is your friend...

Last edited by unclefixit; Today at 02:03 AM. Reason: more info added

unclefixit

View Public Profile

Send a private message to unclefixit

Find all posts by unclefixit

Add unclefixit to Your Contacts

#25 Today, 02:18 AM


Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Redding,CA Posts: 1,608 Real Name: Jim

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclefixit

Quote:

Originally Posted by 50mm&up

I got a Sea Spider from InvictaShark that has a 5040D Ronda asian parts movt. It says

swiss at 6:00. lol. Anybody's guess is as good as mine and it doesn't really matter to me.

You're getting a sweet RD for $90, whats the problem?

Rick I know the watch your talking about, the Sea Spider Sport.

It's the one that caused a big to-doo here because it was sold with an incorrectly

labeled dail ("Swiss" meaning Swiss Made).

This mistake (by the dail manufacturer) during manufacturing wasn't caught until

after the watches were finished and ready for sale.

That's why your watch is labeled as it is...doesn't mean your watch is poor in quaility

by any means.

What it does mean is that you saved a hell of alot of money and got a great watch.

That statement is my whole point. A watched marked Swiss, that is not Swiss Made. Sure it maybe a mistake, but where is the policing? How much was the fine? Was Invicta sanctioned? or did nothing happen...as in...who cares...keep making "Mistakes" Today, 02:40 AM

unclefixit Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Universal City, Texas (about 10 miles N.E. of San Antonio)

Posts: 1,434

Real Name: Jay

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjimzlll

That statement is my whole point. A watched marked Swiss, that is not Swiss Made. Sure it maybe a mistake, but where is the policing? How much was the fine? Was

Invicta sanctioned? or did nothing happen...as in...who cares...keep making "Mistakes"

This one case was unique in that the watches had been produced, shipped to

the U.S., and sent to the customer (SNBC in this case) before anything was

noticed.

(This may speak to the lack of supervision during manufacture that seems to

haunt Invicta)

It was noticed by sneak peekers and early buyers, than braught to forum

members attention in many many threads.

There was no fine to be given as Invicta is not a member of the Swiss

Federation of Horology.

unclefixit

View Public Profile

Send a private message to unclefixit

Find all posts by unclefixit

Add unclefixit to Your Contacts

#27

Today, 07:02 AM

mkcon Senior Member

Senior Geek

Join Date: Oct 2009

Location: Kingston, NY

Posts: 343

Real Name: Michael C.

Akula's are Reserve Watches - unless Invicta is changing their definition of Reserve -

the watch has to be Swiss Made - meaning Swiss movment. Why they changed the

label to Swiss only - I have no clue but you have to assume it is Swiss Made.

__________________ "The definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different outcome." - Freud.

mkcon

View Public Profile

Send a private message to mkcon

Send email to mkcon

Find all posts by mkcon

Add mkcon to Your Contacts

#28

Today, 07:07 AM

watchdude1 WatchGeeks Moderator

Super Geek

Join Date: Nov 2008

Location: The Woodlands, TX

Posts: 2,415

Real Name: Matt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyback

Steve, it seems that the search tool isn't going to be used in this respect, and as a result, I will continue to post the fact of the matter surrounding Swiss and Swiss

Made until everyone has seen it . . .

May take you another 17,000 posts just on this topic though, Brad...LOL.

__________________

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy."

-Billy Currington

watchdude1

View Public Profile

Send a private message to watchdude1

Find all posts by watchdude1

Add watchdude1 to Your Contacts

#29

Today, 07:13 AM

Gencoupe10 Senior Member

Senior Geek

Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Staten Island, New York

Posts: 227

Real Name: Eddie B.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIAMANTE

Has anyone noticed that some Invicta models that previously used the ETA G10 and were marked Swiss Made are now using the Ronda 5040d and are now labled simply

Swiss? This includes some Reserve models as well - Akula for example.

There was some discussion about this when the Amazon exlcusive models appeared, particularly the Venom. It was hundreds less used the Ronda 5040d and was marked Swiss.

My theory is that these models have the Asian version of the Ronda 5040d and therefore cannot be labled Swiss Made.

I asked JSkelton about this (when the Amazon Venome was being discussed) and he said he didn't know but he would ask Eyal.

I don't think the quality has suffered and the Ronda 5040d (even the Asian made version) has nicer features than the ETA G10. I just want to know if my theory is correct.

D

I think Ronda has factories in Japan ..... but i dont want to get Jim and Mike mad if i

am wrong.......

Gencoupe10

View Public Profile

Send a private message to Gencoupe10

Send email to Gencoupe10

Find all posts by Gencoupe10

Add Gencoupe10 to Your Contacts

#30

Today, 07:14 AM

fnps90 Senior Member

Veteran Geek

Join Date: Sep 2009

Location: Efland,NC

Posts: 858 Real Name: Keith

Well the strange one for me was the Scuba's. The one on the bracelet say's swiss

movement on dial and case back. The ones on rubber which I bought say's swiss on

dial and caseback. Both are Rhonda 5040d. Jim said one time swiss means swiss

made. Me, dont really matter cause I buy the watches I like.

__________________

fnps90

View Public Profile

Send a private message to fnps90

Find all posts by fnps90

Add fnps90 to Your Contacts

#31

Today, 07:24 AM

MREXE Senior Member

Veteran Geek

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: colorado

Posts: 969

this is all very redundant. Hey! dont they make Swiss cheese in the USA???? licensing

infringement?????? lol, google "swiss watch law"..........it's even more diluted.........

MREXE

View Public Profile

Send a private message to MREXE

Find all posts by MREXE

Add MREXE to Your Contacts

#32

Today, 07:28 AM

RenatoDiamond Senior Member

True WatchGeek

Join Date: Dec 2008

Location: California

Posts: 17,318 Real Name: Gene

Some of these models are the F series you may have seen on Amazon.com, with

swiss parts movements.

__________________

RenatoDiamond

RenatoDiamond

View Public Profile

Send a private message to RenatoDiamond

Send email to RenatoDiamond

Find all posts by RenatoDiamond

Add RenatoDiamond to Your Contacts

#33

Today, 08:15 AM

FloridaGary Senior Member

Senior Geek

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: Orlando, Florida

Posts: 415

Real Name: Gary

Quote:


Has anyone noticed that some Invicta models that previously used the ETA G10 and

were marked Swiss Made are now using the Ronda 5040d and are now labled simply Swiss?

This includes some Reserve models as well - Akula for example. There was some discussion about this when the Amazon exlcusive models appeared, particularly the Venom. It was hundreds less used the Ronda 5040d and was

marked Swiss. My theory is that these models have the Asian version of the Ronda 5040d and therefore cannot be labled Swiss Made.

I asked JSkelton about this (when the Amazon Venome was being discussed) and he said he didn't know but he would ask Eyal.

I don't think the quality has suffered and the Ronda 5040d (even the Asian made

version) has nicer features than the ETA G10. I just want to know if my theory is correct. D

Great observation. I noticed the same thing. I think the first I noticed was on the SAS

just released in new color configurations. I expected the G-10, but noticed the Ronda

movement instead.

__________________

Too many watches, not enough time.

Rolex, Omega, Chase Durer, Poljot, Seiko, Orient, Invicta, Vostok Europe

FloridaGary

View Public Profile

Send a private message to FloridaGary

Send email to FloridaGary

Find all posts by FloridaGary

Add FloridaGary to Your Contacts

#34

Today, 08:43 AM

Evil Empire Member

Member Geek

Join Date: Jan 2010

Location: Powhatan Virginia

Posts: 98

Real Name: Scott

Not to repeat myself. But I will any way. I understand why Invicta is doing this to

keep prices down and I am sure they are good watches even though not Swiss made.

I wish they would just be upfront about where the watch and movement are made.

We are not stupid. Mike says yes..Jim says No..bla bla.

Sector is a swiss company any watch that I have from Sector with a non swiss

movement does not say swiss any where on the watch back or front.

Evil Empire

View Public Profile

Send a private message to Evil Empire

Find all posts by Evil Empire

Add Evil Empire to Your Contacts

#35

Today, 08:46 AM

kdog45 Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Feb 2010

Location: bronx,newyork

Posts: 1,003 Real Name: mark

thanks for the headz up. __________________

kdog45

View Public Profile

Send a private message to kdog45

Find all posts by kdog45

Add kdog45 to Your Contacts

#36

Today, 10:08 AM


Super Geek

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,773

So why the change to Swiss only on the dials of the Akula, Venom, S1 Touring,

etc....?

The change coincides with the change in movement - a movement that could be made

in Asia.

I realize their is a lot of secrecy in the watch industry and if it comes out that in fact

these newer versions are actually using the Asian made Ronda 5040d then Invicta's

credibility is going to take a massive hit?

Invicta reps are on the record as saying when Invicta uses Swiss they are meeting the

guidelines to use Swiss Made which means the movement must be Swiss Made.

(although there are recent examples of this not being the case - and it was a

"mistake" albeit one with no consequences.)

What we are talking about here is Reserve pieces.

All it is going to take is for someone to pop the case back and we will know for sure. I

don't own one of these models but I'm tempted to buy one just take a look.

D

__________________

Swiss Made OG II Chrono (5050c)

DIAMANTE

View Public Profile




#37

Today, 10:18 AM

WileySG Member

Member Geek

Join Date: Dec 2009

Location: Brookfield, CT

Posts: 39

Real Name: Bob Walker

I find this whole "SWISS" / "SWISS MADE" / "SWISS MOVEMENT" issues very

interesting! Geeks spend a lot of time covering this ground with NO SOLID answer

from Invicta. I'm convinced that some watches are made in Switzerland. I'm also

convinced that some watches are made in the Far East (with ??? parts). I believe

Invicta makes a marketing point of "SWISS" (in any fashion). Hey for me...as long as

the friggin hands dont fall off and it functions properly...I'm good! The styling of

Invicta timepieces is the draw for me, not the "SWISS" logo!

That's just my opinion...I could be wrong!

__________________

WileySG

View Public Profile

Send a private message to WileySG

Send email to WileySG

Find all posts by WileySG

Add WileySG to Your Contacts

#38

Today, 10:26 AM


Veteran Geek

Join Date: Apr 2008

Posts: 662

Quote:

Originally Posted by Time Bandit

Flyback, Can you put together a Sticky in the General Swiss Watch Forum?

A comprehensive post, that would be used to point to, every time this comes up.

Quote:


First of all, I'm just a regular member like you, so I can't put together a sticky. But

if I was asked to, I'd be happy to do so.

I'm asking, I'm sure if you made a comprehensive post,

It would become a Sticky, and member's would suggest just that.

Even as late as this morning, there is conflicting information regarding the word

"SWISS" on the dial of a watch.

Some folks believe that "SWISS" without the word "MADE" means that it is a Swiss

Made watch, but in reality it only has a Swiss Movement, as it pertains to the Swiss

Federation Guidelines, and the Members of the Swiss Federation abiding by said

Guidelines.

If there was a "goto, tellall, sticky" we could put this to rest, like Regis would say,

"This is the Final Answer" in relation to this topic.

Time Bandit

View Public Profile





#39

Today, 10:36 AM


Super Geek

Join Date: Nov 2008

Location: The Woodlands, TX

Posts: 2,415

Real Name: Matt

Quote:


I'm asking, I'm sure if you made a comprehensive post,

It would become a Sticky, and member's would suggest just that. Even as late as this morning, there is conflicting information regarding the word "SWISS" on the dial of a watch.

Some folks believe that "SWISS" without the word "MADE" means that it is a Swiss Made watch, but in reality it only has a Swiss Movement, as it pertains to the Swiss Federation Guidelines, and the Members of the Swiss Federation abiding by said

Guidelines. If there was a "goto, tellall, sticky" we could put this to rest, like Regis would say, "This is the Final Answer" in relation to this topic.

The thing is, "Swiss" at the 6 position may or may not mean "Swiss Made" depending

upon if the company is part of the Swiss federation or not. Even if company X (like

Invicta) is not a member, it does mean out of hand that the designation does not hold

up as being Swiss Made. Frankly, Michael's post should also be a sticky as to Invicta's

company policy and should be controlling until such time as anyone can prove that

Invicta using "Swiss" at the 6 does NOT mean "Swiss Made." There are final answers

as to what the law says, but there is also "final answers" in terms of what the actual

reality is. It serves no purpose to use the regs and guidelines to denounce a company

that is not part of the Swiss federation without the corresponding proof that they are

bending those guidelines to their advantage.

__________________


-Billy Currington

watchdude1

View Public Profile




#40

Today, 10:38 AM

heavyjumbo Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Boca Raton, FL

Posts: 1,292

Real Name: Paul

If I want a Swiss Made watch from Invicta then I will buy only a watch that says

Swiss Made. Why would Invicta label a watch "Swiss" if it is Swiss Made especially

after the same dial (i.e. Russian Diver, SAS and SAIII, etc.) for a long period already

was labeled "Swiss Made". To me, it means that Invicta likely changed the piece from

Swiss Made to only some other manufacturing standard/parts of origin/assembly, etc.

No other logical explanation. Since Invicta is not a part of the Swiss Federation (as

posted by others whom I respect tremendously) then dont assume its Swiss Made

just because it says Swiss. Again, why would Invicta go through the trouble of

chaning the dials from Swiss Made to Swiss (on the same models) if ithe model

remained Swiss Made??? Answer - they would not unless it was no longer Swiss

Made.

__________________

Paul G. Boca Raton, FL

heavyjumbo

View Public Profile

Send a private message to heavyjumbo

Find all posts by heavyjumbo

Add heavyjumbo to Your Contacts

#41

Today, 10:39 AM

Time Bandit Senior Member Veteran Geek

Join Date: Apr 2008

Posts: 662

Quote:

Originally Posted by watchdude1

The thing is, "Swiss" at the 6 position may or may not mean "Swiss Made" depending upon if the company is part of the Swiss federation or not. Even if

company X (like Invicta) is not a member, it does mean out of hand that the designation does not hold up as being Swiss Made.

That was my entire point.

SWISS alone, doesn't mean anything.

No matter what company makes it.

Time Bandit

View Public Profile





#42

Today, 10:40 AM

tkromer Senior Member

True WatchGeek

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: Morgantown WV Posts: 12,167

Real Name: Tommy

I think the real answer, the 5040 is an upgrade, regardless of country of origin.

tkromer

View Public Profile

Send a private message to tkromer

Send email to tkromer

Find all posts by tkromer

Add tkromer to Your Contacts

#43

Today, 10:45 AM


Super Geek

Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: The Woodlands, TX

Posts: 2,415

Real Name: Matt

Quote:


That was my entire point. SWISS alone, doesn't mean anything. No matter what company makes it.

No, I got where you are coming from. Well, it does mean something definitively if you

a member of the Swiss federation as the only way members of the federation may

use this is if, in fact, the piece is Swiss made. However when Michael states that

"Swiss" at the 6 position means the same thing as Swiss Made and that Invicta is

following those guidelines set forth by the Swiss federation, I just wish people would

either say they don't believe him or provide evidence he is not being truthful...

__________________


-Billy Currington

watchdude1

View Public Profile




#44

Today, 10:52 AM


Veteran Geek

Join Date: Apr 2008

Posts: 662

Quote:


I just wish people would either say they don't believe him or provide evidence he is not being truthful...

I don't believe it.

See Heavy Jumbo's post above

Time Bandit

View Public Profile





#45

Today, 02:21 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Dec 2008

Posts: 1,773

Quote:


....snip.... I just wish people would either say they don't believe him or provide evidence he is not being truthful...

I don't beleive it either. I give Mike the benefit of the doubt because he's probably

going on what he has been told.

I 2nd the - See Heavy Jumbo's post above

No one has definitive proof yet, but someone will eventually pop the back on one of

these models and we will.

D

__________________


DIAMANTE

View Public Profile




#46

Today, 02:37 PM


Join Date: Apr 2008

Posts: 662

Quote:


No one has definitive proof yet, but someone will eventually pop the back on one of these models and we will.

D

Time Bandit

View Public Profile





#47

Today, 02:38 PM

icewolf64 Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Sep 2009

Location: Grand Rapids, MI

Posts: 2,022 Real Name: Dave

Think about this, We all know this always comes up and we all know that Mike and

Jim read these. and yet two of my Russian divers have swiss made and the two with

the ISA 8176 have only Swiss on them. This is not because on this extremely large

dial that there was not room to put the words swiss made on it. You know they would

put it on there if it were truely swiss made since this would leave no doubt as to it

being swiss made. Just go with your instincts.

__________________

icewolf64

View Public Profile

Send a private message to icewolf64

Find all posts by icewolf64

Add icewolf64 to Your Contacts

#48

Today, 02:42 PM

Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: Northern CA Posts: 17,356

Real Name: Brad

Quote:


I've seen these photos before, and although I don't remember where, it's also be

debunked as not being real. Maybe Mehdi could take a look and give his opinion.

__________________


Flyback

View Public Profile




#49

Today, 02:59 PM


Veteran Geek

Join Date: Apr 2008

Posts: 662

Quote:


I've seen these photos before, and although I don't remember where, it's also be debunked as not being real. Maybe Mehdi could take a look and give his opinion.

The Photographer of those pictures is a member here on WG.net.

I didn't wan't to name him publicly.

Time Bandit

View Public Profile





#50

Today, 03:04 PM


True WatchGeek

Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northern CA

Posts: 17,356

Real Name: Brad

Quote:




Maybe it was even here then that I saw the discussion. Something about that

movement and how it would or wouldn't fit in that case. That aside, it's such a

nothing watch in comparison to what's being discussed, but one of the current reserve

line watches showing the movement was Asian made would be an entirely different

matter.

__________________



Super Geek

Join Date: Dec 2008

Posts: 1,773

Quote:




That's a start. What we need is someone to

take photos just like that of the Venom,

Akula, SAN III, etc.. that are marked simply

Swiss.

D

__________________


DIAMANTE

View Public Profile




#52

Today, 03:20 PM

bat Senior Member

Senior Geek

Join Date: Apr 2010

Location: Northeast Pennsylvania

Posts: 291 Real Name: Fred C

Thanks Jay that should make it simple.

bat

View Public Profile

Send a private message to bat

Send email to bat

Find all posts by bat

Add bat to Your Contacts

#53

Today, 03:25 PM

Watchbear WatchGeeks Moderator

Master WatchGeek

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Morrison CO.

Posts: 4,310

Real Name: Uncle Bob

Quote:


The Photographer of those pictures is a member here on WG.net. I didn't wan't to name him publicly.

No... thees pictures were taken for another forum and brought over here

I Believe thees were proven to be fake, another movement was installed in the watch

__________________

Da bear is in da house

Yabba Dabba Dooo...Fred Flintstone...

Watchbear

View Public Profile

Send a private message to Watchbear

Find all posts by Watchbear

Add Watchbear to Your Contacts

#54

Today, 03:40 PM

icewolf64 Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Sep 2009



want proof that Swiss is not swiss, here it is this movt is in my russian diver with the

distressed strap and the dial and caseback says swiss but yet the movement says the

following "ISA cal 8176/2050 3 jewels CHINA Invicta watch group. Also say on it far

east assy, the battery says swiss made.

__________________

icewolf64

View Public Profile




#55

Today, 03:44 PM


Join Date: Apr 2008

Posts: 662

Quote:

Originally Posted by Watchbear

No... thees pictures were taken for another forum and brought over here

True, they were posted on another forum, I didn't say that they weren't.

I found them by Google'ing.

I did say that the auther of the photo's was a Member here too though, not that the

author posted those here.

Sorry that I was unclear about that.

Time Bandit

View Public Profile





#56

Today, 03:45 PM


True WatchGeek

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: Northern CA

Posts: 17,356 Real Name: Brad

Quote:

Originally Posted by icewolf64

want proof that Swiss is not swiss, here it is this movt is in my russian diver with the distressed strap and the dial and caseback says swiss but yet the movement says the following "ISA cal 8176/2050 3 jewels CHINA Invicta watch group. Also say on it far east assy, the battery says swiss made.

Thanks Dave! The first thing someone questioning your picture is going to say is that

you can't tell what watch that movement came from. As a preventative measure, can

you post a few more pictures showing more of the watch?

__________________

If n = the number of watches you have, then n + 1 = the number of watches you

need!

Flyback

View Public Profile




#57

Today, 03:46 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Sep 2009


Posts: 2,022

Real Name: Dave

this is from model number 5857 Rosegold, brown distress strap

__________________

icewolf64

View Public Profile




#58

Today, 03:58 PM

ukrany1 Senior Member

Master WatchGeek

Join Date: May 2009

Location: Michigan

Posts: 4,968 Real Name: Ken

Quote:


Thank the Lord for my 22" monitor!

Is it a Swiss Monitor or a Swiss Made monitor?

__________________

ukrany1

View Public Profile

Send a private message to ukrany1

Send email to ukrany1

Find all posts by ukrany1

Add ukrany1 to Your Contacts

#59

Today, 04:01 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Sep 2009



Brad there will still be disbelievers but here goes, these are from my own personal

watch I just opened up for you watchgeeks.

__________________

icewolf64

View Public Profile




#60

Today, 04:03 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Sep 2009


Posts: 2,022

Real Name: Dave

So really what does the Word "Swiss" really mean

__________________

icewolf64

View Public Profile




#61

Today, 04:13 PM

reliefcp Senior Member

Master WatchGeek

Join Date: May 2009

Location: Everett Wa.

Posts: 2,518

Real Name: C.J.

Looks like for different companies Swiss means very different things.

__________________

reliefcp

View Public Profile

Send a private message to reliefcp

Find all posts by reliefcp

Add reliefcp to Your Contacts

#62

Today, 04:20 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Austin Texas..... Y'all

Posts: 2,233

Real Name: Jeff

icewolf64, is the movement marked with the country of origin? I can't see anything

from the distance of the pics.

Kahuna Cowboy

View Public Profile





#63

Today, 04:21 PM


Super Geek


Posts: 1,292

Real Name: Paul

Quote:


Brad there will still be disbelievers but here goes, these are from my own personal watch I just opened up for you watchgeeks.

Dangerously deceptive in my book. I am sure Invicta has all the answers, but I am

dissapointed.

__________________


heavyjumbo

View Public Profile




#64

Today, 04:21 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Sep 2009


Posts: 2,022

Real Name: Dave

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kahuna Cowboy

icewolf64, is the movement marked with the country of origin? I can't see anything

from the distance of the pics.

Yes is says CHINA

__________________

icewolf64

View Public Profile




#65

Today, 04:22 PM


Super Geek


Posts: 1,292

Real Name: Paul

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kahuna Cowboy

icewolf64, is the movement marked with the country of origin? I can't see anything from the distance of the pics.

look at post #55

__________________


heavyjumbo

View Public Profile




#66

Today, 04:22 PM

gman66 Senior Member

Veteran Geek

Join Date: Mar 2010

Location: Citrus Heights, CA

Posts: 702 Real Name: Gary

Hey! Is this one of those swiss/ swiss mvmt/ swiss parts mvmt/ swiss made threads?

Again? Been here, done this. Think I'd rather watch Phineas & Ferb...

__________________

Bullwinkle: "Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!"

gman66

View Public Profile

Send a private message to gman66

Find all posts by gman66

Add gman66 to Your Contacts

#67

Today, 04:26 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Apr 2008

Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 1,292

Real Name: Paul

Quote:

Originally Posted by gman66

Hey! Is this one of those swiss/ swiss mvmt/ swiss parts mvmt/ swiss made threads? Again? Been here, done this. Think I'd rather watch Phineas & Ferb...

'watch' whatever you want (sorry could not help myself).

__________________


heavyjumbo

View Public Profile




#68

Today, 04:27 PM


Veteran Geek

Join Date: Mar 2010


Posts: 702

Real Name: Gary

Quote:

Originally Posted by heavyjumbo

'watch' whatever you want (sorry could not help myself).

I get it...

__________________


gman66

View Public Profile




#69

Today, 04:28 PM

MREXE Senior Member

Veteran Geek

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: colorado

Posts: 969

Good grief peeps! Ive been saying this for years, EVERYTHING now is made in China.

That doesnt make your watches less a watch, or less well made, all this "swiss" hype

is exactly that.........ASSEMBLED IN SWISSLAND, that's it.........there are some stand

up companies that tell you that like Renato.........altho most of my watches are

Invicta, I do not pretend not to know the truth. I believe that the Swiss government is

now trying to change the law from 51% of the value to 80%......not sure how that will

work........Jim has been as honest as he can be by stating "only about 4-5 watch

companies make TOTALLY Swiss made watches, and Invicta is not one of them".

MREXE

View Public Profile




#70

Today, 04:29 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Sep 2009


Posts: 2,022

Real Name: Dave

I don't know if this is clearer

__________________

icewolf64

View Public Profile




#71

Today, 04:30 PM

MREXE Senior Member

Veteran Geek

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: colorado

Posts: 969

(i hear the sound of watch geeks through out the land opening the backs of their

SANIII's) "click your heels three times, and say, there's no place like home, Dorothy"

MREXE

View Public Profile




#72

Today, 04:32 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Apr 2008

Location: Boca Raton, FL

Posts: 1,292 Real Name: Paul

Maybe Invicta's conscience is clear because there is a swiss made battery in the

watch.

__________________


heavyjumbo

View Public Profile




#73

Today, 04:33 PM


True WatchGeek

Join Date: Feb 2008


Posts: 17,356

Real Name: Brad

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukrany1

Is it a Swiss Monitor or a Swiss Made monitor?

Asian all the way . . .

__________________


Flyback

View Public Profile




#74

Today, 04:34 PM

gman66 Senior Member Veteran Geek

Join Date: Mar 2010

Location: Citrus Heights, CA Posts: 702

Real Name: Gary

Have we been buying stuff that's made in China? That's interesting...again...ad

infinitum...

__________________


gman66

View Public Profile




#75

Today, 04:36 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Austin Texas..... Y'all

Posts: 2,233 Real Name: Jeff

Quote:


I don't know if this is clearer

Oh wow. Well that is certainly interesting. Today, 04:37 PM


True WatchGeek

Join Date: Feb 2008



Quote:


Brad there will still be disbelievers but here goes, these are from my own personal watch I just opened up for you watchgeeks.

Your series of pictures are the first documented proof that I've seen from a known

source of an Asian movement in an Invicta watch with only "Swiss" on the dial.

Perhaps Invicata should clarify their position given what you've shown us. At the very

least, provide an explanation for what you found in your RD.

__________________


Flyback

View Public Profile




#77

Today, 04:38 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Sep 2009


Posts: 2,022

Real Name: Dave

Quote:


Your series of pictures are the first documented proof of an Asian movement in an

Invicta watch with only "Swiss" on the dial. Perhaps Invicata should clarify their position given what you've shown us.

I think an explaination is due.

__________________

icewolf64

View Public Profile




#78

Today, 04:40 PM

Jamesmbb Senior Member

Senior Geek

Join Date: Apr 2008

Location: New Orleans, LA

Posts: 171

I hope invicta is using movementments or watches made in china

Jamesmbb

View Public Profile

Send a private message to Jamesmbb

Find all posts by Jamesmbb

Add Jamesmbb to Your Contacts

#79

Today, 04:41 PM

MREXE Senior Member

Veteran Geek

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: colorado

Posts: 969

I feel a price drop coming...............YIPPPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEE cat's

outa da bag dudes..............

MREXE

View Public Profile




#80

Today, 04:42 PM


Master WatchGeek

Join Date: May 2009


Posts: 2,518 Real Name: C.J.

Hard to spin this one.

__________________

reliefcp

View Public Profile




#81

Today, 04:48 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Sep 2009


Posts: 2,022

Real Name: Dave

I like the part were it say far east assy, I guess this voids my warranty, opp's

__________________

icewolf64

View Public Profile




#82

Today, 04:50 PM

TheMatrix Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Dec 2009

Location: Metro Detroit

Posts: 1,708

Quote:

Originally Posted by MREXE

I feel a price drop coming...............YIPPPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEE cat's outa da bag dudes..............

I hear ya.

What this really translates to is lower pricing for consumers. Gotta luv lower prices.

__________________

See my SO Imperial Turbillon here

TheMatrix

View Public Profile

Send a private message to TheMatrix

Send email to TheMatrix

Find all posts by TheMatrix

Add TheMatrix to Your Contacts

#83

Today, 04:51 PM


Master WatchGeek

Join Date: May 2009 Location: Everett Wa.

Posts: 2,518

Real Name: C.J.

Maybe the battery meets their standard of SWISS.

__________________

reliefcp

View Public Profile




#84

Today, 04:57 PM

erictrumpet Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Nov 2009

Posts: 1,857

I am so glad to see this thread going where it has gone.

Swiss does not mean Swiss Made! And in fact it might mean nothing... and even

border on false representation of the product.

Does it break any laws? Probably not. So they'll keep saying it.

Eric.

__________________

erictrumpet

View Public Profile

Send a private message to erictrumpet

Find all posts by erictrumpet

Add erictrumpet to Your Contacts

#85

Today, 05:06 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Grand Rapids, MI

Posts: 2,022

Real Name: Dave

Quote:

Originally Posted by heavyjumbo

Maybe Invicta's conscience is clear because there is a swiss made battery in the watch.

the funny thing is that my excursion which is marked swiss made does in fact have a

swiss made 8173 movt in it with a USA made Energizer battery.

__________________

icewolf64

View Public Profile




#86

Today, 05:17 PM

RoyalOak Senior Member

Veteran Geek

Join Date: Jan 2010

Posts: 617

Real Name: Stan

Quote:


want proof that Swiss is not swiss, here it is this movt is in my russian diver with the distressed strap and the dial and caseback says swiss but yet the movement

says the following "ISA cal 8176/2050 3 jewels CHINA Invicta watch group. Also say on it far east assy, the battery says swiss made.

Thank you for proving my doubts all along! I know the Swiss Federation regulations,

and know "Swiss" and "Swiss Made" are the same for members, but not necessarily

the same for non-members like Invicta. The very few times I've seen a real "Swiss

Made" watch that just had "Swiss" on the dial also had its place of manufacture, e.g.

Geneve.

I brought up this issue in a thread I started a few months ago about Invicta Amazon

Exclusives (F Series) marked "Swiss" on the dial not "Swiss Made," and questioned

this issue at that time.

I bought an Invicta Amazon Exclusive SAS GMT on a P/U Strap that was marked

"Swiss" only. Later, Shop was selling the SAS GMT on a P/U Strap, the difference

being it was marked "Swiss Made" on those dials. Unfortunately, Invicta watches sold

by Amazon directly do not give you the name/number of the movement.

Last edited by RoyalOak; Today at 05:28 PM. Reason: typo

RoyalOak

View Public Profile

Send a private message to RoyalOak

Find all posts by RoyalOak

Add RoyalOak to Your Contacts

#87

Today, 05:20 PM

MREXE Senior Member

Veteran Geek

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: colorado

Posts: 969

Geez, where are the Ops and owners debunking all of this horseradish? .........in a

frantic meeting, I assume.

MREXE

View Public Profile




#88

Today, 05:22 PM

timeman Senior Member

Master WatchGeek

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 4,692

Real Name: Jerry

Quote:


Your series of pictures are the first documented proof that I've seen from a known

source of an Asian movement in an Invicta watch with only "Swiss" on the dial. Perhaps Invicata should clarify their position given what you've shown us. At the very least, provide an explanation for what you found in your RD.

Was watching an Invicta show today and it was reported by the Invicta representative

that because the question of "Swiss Made" and "Swiss" on the dial came up on e-

mails and the Internet, he repeated the definition of what a Swiss made Invicta is.

I'm paraphrasing what was said, when Invicta has "Swiss Made" or "Swiss" on the dial

it's a Swiss made watch because they follow the Swiss Federation guidelines for a

Swiss made watch.

Now we have proof that Invicta is putting Chinese made movements in watches

reported to be "Swiss Made." I do believe the Invicta representative was only stating

what was told to him by Invicta.

__________________

timeman

View Public Profile

Send a private message to timeman

Find all posts by timeman

Add timeman to Your Contacts

#89

Today, 05:28 PM

2010gt Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Nov 2009

Location: Ky

Posts: 1,131 Real Name: Steve

Only buy Invictas with the 7750 auto if you are that fixated on the SWISS movement

- you can see all the correct markings on the movement right thru the exhibition

caseback. Problem solved.

__________________

2010gt

View Public Profile

Send a private message to 2010gt

Send email to 2010gt

Find all posts by 2010gt

Add 2010gt to Your Contacts

#90

Today, 05:32 PM


True WatchGeek

Join Date: Feb 2008


Posts: 17,356

Real Name: Brad

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2010gt

Only buy Invictas with the 7750 auto if you are that fixated on the SWISS movement - you can see all the correct markings on the movement right thru the

exhibition caseback. Problem solved.

And of course the Selita SW200 falls into that same category.

__________________


Flyback

View Public Profile




#91

Today, 05:37 PM

MREXE Senior Member

Veteran Geek

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: colorado

Posts: 969

I have breathed a sigh of relief, that, finally, the watchgeek world has been informed

as to what they are buying. From now on, if my watch is running correctly after 30

days, I will take the back off and take some pics...........just to keep the truth out

there. Dang, I got about 50 pics to take this week alone..........THE TRUTH WILL SET

YOU FREE.

MREXE

View Public Profile




#92

Today, 05:40 PM


Master WatchGeek

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Long Island, New York

Posts: 4,692

Real Name: Jerry

By putting a Chinese movement in a watch that has the word "Swiss" on the dial, not

only violates their claim that they follow the Swiss Federations guidelines, but also

violates the U.S. Custom regulations on the origin of the movement. According to U.S.

Custom regulations the word "China" instead of "Swiss" should be on the dial to

designate the country in which the movement was made.

__________________

timeman

View Public Profile




#93

Today, 05:44 PM


Master WatchGeek

Join Date: Mar 2008


Posts: 4,692

Real Name: Jerry

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2010gt

Only buy Invictas with the 7750 auto if you are that fixated on the SWISS movement - you can see all the

correct markings on the movement right thru the exhibition caseback. Problem solved.

They also make a Chinese version of the 7750. Honestly.

Here is a photo of one.

timeman

View Public Profile




#94

Today, 05:46 PM

wilco Senior Member

Senior Geek

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 379

That can be circumvented and is on a regular basis by both ETA and others. When

discussing country of origin, remember, that these ETA and Ronda quartz pieces

actually have the modules which are produced in Switzerland.

After the modules are produced in Switzerland; they are then shipped to offshore

Asian assembly houses and the modules and other swiss parts are then assembled.

Country of origin? Well, they started in Switzerland and the majority of parts by value

in the movement are of swiss origin and I imagine they could squeak by with some

type of final inspection in Switzerland when they receive them back fully constructed

from Asia. The actual modules are ASSEMBLED/Made in Switzerland. Just the

component of the watch are assembled in Asia. Sort of a gray area, I believe.

So, not so sure an Asian assembled Swiss Origin movement is not considered in a

Swiss timepiece.

Just a theory, but I have heard it a few times.

Quote:


Sorry, that wouldn't be allowed under U.S. Customs country of origin labeling

regulations. If you read the following excerpts from the regs. you will note that the country of origin of the movement must should appear on the dial or case back. A company subject to U.S. Customs regs, could not put Swiss on the dial when in fact

the movement was made in Asia. U.S. Customs Regulations, 19 CFR Part 177

Chapter 91, Additional U.S. Note 4, Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States, sets forth special marking requirements for watches and clocks: (a) Watch movements shall be marked on one or more of the bridges or top plates

to show: (i) the name of the country of manufacture,

(ii) the name of the manufacturer or purchaser, and

(iii) in words, the number of jewels, if any, serving a mechanical

purpose as frictional bearings.

(c) Watch cases shall be marked on the inside or outside of the back to show: (i) the name of the country of manufacture, and

(ii) the name of the manufacturer or purchaser.

The above movements and cases must be conspicuously and indelibly marked by cutting, die-sinking, engraving, stamping (including by means of indelible ink), or

mold-marking. Movements with opto-electronic display only and cases designed for use therewith, whether entered as separate articles or as components of assembled watches or clocks, are excepted from these special marking requirements.

Watches and clocks are also subject to the normal country of origin marking requirements of 19 U.S.C. 1304, and under these requirements, the movement’s country of origin should appear conspicuously and legibly on the dial face or on the

outside of the back. In addition, watchbands should be marked with the country of manufacture of the band, unless the watchband is attached in the country where the watch was produced.

wilco

View Public Profile

Send a private message to wilco

Find all posts by wilco

Add wilco to Your Contacts

#95

Today, 05:47 PM

Argabright Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Jul 2009

Posts: 1,757

I just have one question... Does this SURPRISE anyone? I, for one, have known this

for a very long time.

__________________

Argabright

View Public Profile

Send a private message to Argabright

Find all posts by Argabright

Add Argabright to Your Contacts

#96

Today, 05:47 PM

2010gt Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Nov 2009

Location: Ky Posts: 1,131

Real Name: Steve

Quote:

Originally Posted by timeman


Of course, but assuming they don't stoop to marking them as ETA 7750 and SWISS

on several visible places on the movements - I am giving them the benefit of the

doubt in this case only.

__________________

2010gt

View Public Profile





#97

Today, 05:53 PM

Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek

Join Date: Feb 2008


Real Name: Brad

Quote:


I have breathed a sigh of relief, that, finally, the watchgeek world has been informed as to what they are buying. From now on, if my watch is running correctly

after 30 days, I will take the back off and take some pics...........just to keep the truth out there. Dang, I got about 50 pics to take this week alone..........THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.

My guess/hope would be that those labeled Swiss Made will indeed have Swiss Made

movements. As to those labeled Swiss, time will tell, but one would also hope there is

some reason U.S. Customs regulations haven't been followed if that proves to be the

case.

• Under 19 U.S.C.1304, as interpreted by Customs, the country of origin of the movement of the watch or clock determines the country of origin of the watch or

clock. Although the addition of the hands, dial, or case adds definition to the timepiece, they do not substantially change the character or use of the watch or clock movement, which is the essence of the watch or clock. Accordingly, a watch with one country of origin for the movement, another for the case, and another for the battery,

is considered, for purposes of 19 USC 1304, to be a product of the country in which the movement was produced. The movement's country of origin should appear

conspicuously and legibly on the dial face or on the outside of the back of the watch. __________________


Flyback

View Public Profile




#98

Today, 05:55 PM


True WatchGeek

Join Date: Feb 2008


Posts: 17,356

Real Name: Brad

Quote:



True enough, but it's not made by ETA and the suggestion was that the exhibition

case back on Invicta's with the V7750 would reveal what's inside.

__________________


need!

Flyback

View Public Profile




#99

Today, 05:57 PM

2010gt Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Nov 2009

Location: Ky

Posts: 1,131

Real Name: Steve

and the debate goes on and on and on and.............it doesn't take long to figure out

that anything you buy may or may not be exactly what you think it is in most cases -

at some point, have a little faith, brothers!!!!!

__________________

2010gt

View Public Profile





#100

Today, 06:00 PM

timeman Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 4,692

Real Name: Jerry

Quote:


True enough, but it's not made by ETA and the suggestion was that the exhibition case back on Invicta's with the V7750 would reveal what's inside.

The Chinese version is made by Apogaum.

__________________


Super Geek

Join Date: Sep 2009


Posts: 2,022

Real Name: Dave

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilco

That can be circumvented and is on a regular basis by both ETA and others. When discussing country of origin, remember, that these ETA and Ronda quartz pieces actually have the modules which are produced in Switzerland.

After the modules are produced in Switzerland; they are then shipped to offshore Asian assembly houses and the modules and other swiss parts are then assembled.

Country of origin? Well, they started in Switzerland and the majority of parts by value in the movement are of swiss origin and I imagine they could squeak by with some type of final inspection in Switzerland when they receive them back fully

constructed from Asia. The actual modules are ASSEMBLED/Made in Switzerland. Just the component of the watch are assembled in Asia. Sort of a gray area, I believe.

So, not so sure an Asian assembled Swiss Origin movement is not considered in a Swiss timepiece.

Just a theory, but I have heard it a few times.

This would be considered a swiss parts movement watch.

__________________

icewolf64

View Public Profile




#102

Today, 06:04 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Redding,CA

Posts: 1,608

Real Name: Jim

Oh my,

I have the exact same Russian diver with the distressed band. I am wearing it today

and was bragging it is Swiss Made....As P.T. Barnum said, There's a sucker born every

minute, I just really believed I was old enuff and "experienced" that it didn't pertain

to me.

I am physically ill over this.

__________________

bigjimzlll

View Public Profile




#103

Today, 06:13 PM

MREXE Senior Member

Veteran Geek

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: colorado

Posts: 969

again, where is Invicta on this thread? what? did you pee yer pants? we need some

answers here, dont ya think?

MREXE

View Public Profile




#104

Today, 06:15 PM

icewolf64 Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Sep 2009



Quote:


Oh my, I have the exact same Russian diver with the distressed band. I am wearing it today

and was bragging it is Swiss Made....As P.T. Barnum said, There's a sucker born every minute, I just really believed I was old enuff and "experienced" that it didn't pertain to me. I am physically ill over this.

yeah I thought the same thing, and then I saw the comments that ever one was

making about oh not this discussion again and then it dawned on me that Invicta

knows about this discussion too, So I thought to myself why would they not put the

words swiss made on a Russian diver that has the largest dial face. It is obviously not

because of lack of room.

So curiousity got the best of me.

__________________

icewolf64

View Public Profile




#105

Today, 06:16 PM


True WatchGeek

Join Date: Feb 2008



Quote:


again, where is Invicta on this thread? what? did you pee yer pants? we need some answers here, dont ya think?

It's a holiday. It's not really fair to assume this is being ignored. It could very well be

that it hasn't been seen as of yet.

__________________


need!

Flyback

View Public Profile




#106

Today, 06:19 PM


Veteran Geek

Join Date: Apr 2008

Posts: 662

Quote:


want proof that Swiss is not swiss, here it is this movt is in my russian diver with the distressed strap and the dial and caseback says swiss but yet the movement

says the following "ISA cal 8176/2050 3 jewels CHINA Invicta watch group. Also say on it far east assy, the battery says swiss made.

May I ask, did you purchase that watch in the picture on ShopNBC?

If so, do you have a J#

Time Bandit

View Public Profile





#107

Today, 06:24 PM

MREXE Senior Member Veteran Geek

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: colorado

Posts: 969

flyback, Please dont patronize me. this is the internet..........yer dog would tell you

this is a hot topic on your OWN web forum............if shop and Invicta want to repair

this "long coming" truth.....they should jump on it now, and put the fire out....

MREXE

View Public Profile




#108

Today, 06:27 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Sep 2009

Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 2,022

Real Name: Dave

Quote:


May I ask, did you purchase that watch in the picture on ShopNBC? If so, do you have a J#

no I got this one from WOW but I do have another watch from shopnbc I will get back

with pictures.

__________________

icewolf64

View Public Profile




#109

Today, 06:28 PM


Master WatchGeek

Join Date: Mar 2008


Posts: 4,692 Real Name: Jerry

Quote:


May I ask, did you purchase that watch in the picture on ShopNBC?

If so, do you have a J#

Here are some from ShopNBC. Don't know if this is the watch in question.

Invicta Men's Russian Diver Swiss Quartz GMT Genuine Leather Strap Watch -

J177371

http://www.shopnbc.com/Invicta_Men_s...-_-M-_-J177371

Invicta Men's Russian Diver Swiss Quartz GMT Distressed Leather Strap Watch -

J177373

http://www.shopnbc.com/Invicta_Men_s...aspx?storeid=1

Invicta Men's Russian Diver Swiss Quartz GMT Sunray Dial Leather Strap Watch -

J177372

http://www.vvtv.com/Invicta_Men_s_Ru...V2-_-ONAIR-_-9

In the video this one is said to be Swiss Made. I don't know if the above watches sold

on ShopNBC are the same as the one photographed in this thread.

__________________

timeman

View Public Profile




#110

Today, 06:45 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Sep 2009


Posts: 2,022

Real Name: Dave

this is the Quinataur I bought a year ago approximately from Shopnbc J #176920 this

one at least has a gilt movement in it with 9 jewels instead of three however is still

CHINA and FAR EAST ASSY

__________________

icewolf64

View Public Profile




#111

Today, 06:47 PM


True WatchGeek

Join Date: Feb 2008


Posts: 17,356

Real Name: Brad

The plot thickens . . .

__________________


Flyback

View Public Profile




#112

Today, 06:48 PM

MREXE Senior Member

Veteran Geek

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: colorado Posts: 969

OK, Flyback, thot thar fer a sec you were from "the darkside of the planet"..........I

apologize for a previous post.

MREXE

View Public Profile




#113

Today, 06:50 PM


Master WatchGeek

Join Date: May 2009


Posts: 2,518

Real Name: C.J.

Looks like we may have found out where there factories are.

__________________

reliefcp

View Public Profile




#114

Today, 06:51 PM


Master WatchGeek

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Long Island, New York

Posts: 4,692

Real Name: Jerry

Quote:


this is the Quinataur I bought a year ago approximately from Shopnbc J #176920 this one at least has a gilt movement in it with 9 jewels instead of three however is

still CHINA and FAR EAST ASSY

Invicta Men's Russian Diver Quinotaur Swiss Quartz GMT Rubber Strap Watch -

J176920

http://www.shopnbc.com/PRODUCT/?trac...h-_-family-_-N

In the video it's stated the watch is "All Swiss."

__________________

timeman

View Public Profile




#115

Today, 06:51 PM


True WatchGeek

Join Date: Feb 2008


Real Name: Brad

Quote:


OK, Flyback, thot thar fer a sec you were from "the darkside of the planet"..........I

apologize for a previous post.

Nope . . . me and Superman, truth, justice and the American way!

__________________


Flyback

View Public Profile




#116

Today, 06:51 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Sep 2009


Posts: 2,022

Real Name: Dave

Does this void my warranty, oh dang

__________________

icewolf64

View Public Profile




#117

Today, 06:52 PM

samuelrz Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: May 2009

Location: N. California

Posts: 1,299 Real Name: Sam

Quote:


again, where is Invicta on this thread? what? did you pee yer pants? we need some answers here, dont ya think?

No.

__________________

SAM - http://www.giltman.com/invite/samuelrz

samuelrz

View Public Profile





#118

Today, 06:53 PM


Master WatchGeek

Join Date: May 2009


Posts: 2,518

Real Name: C.J.

Quote:


Does this void my warranty, oh dang

Do you have any (SWISS) autos?

__________________

reliefcp

View Public Profile




#119

Today, 06:58 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Sep 2009


Posts: 2,022

Real Name: Dave

Quote:


Invicta Men's Russian Diver Quinotaur Swiss Quartz GMT Rubber Strap Watch - J176920 http://www.shopnbc.com/PRODUCT/?trac...h-_-family-_-N

In the video it's stated the watch is "All Swiss."

you are correct, Eyal himself said the words " all Swiss"

__________________

icewolf64

View Public Profile




#120

Today, 06:59 PM

Taxg8r00 Member

Member Geek

Join Date: Apr 2010

Posts: 34

I think it is pretty clear, unless a watch says "Swiss Made" on it is is not made in

Switzerland. We can get into all sorts of sematics about the Swiss law on what makes

a watch "Swiss Made" but that does not change the fact that the watch in question did

not say "Swiss Made". I think it has been said many times before by other posters if a

watch manufacturer can legally put "Swiss Made" on a watch they surely would and

would be idiots not to.

For the record I am Swiss citizen and spend and have spent a considerable period of

time in Switzerland. My mom is from Biel/Bienne where lots of watch movements are

made. I have Rolexes and still have no problem wearing my Rento. I even bought my

dad a Swiss Legend Tungsten Chrono as a Father's Day gift. I think the issue with the

watch in question goes more to false advertising as it seems like Invict is trying to

pass something off as something it is not by putting "Swiss" on the dial. If the dial

had said "Swiss Movt" would anyone be questioning this?

Taxg8r00

View Public Profile

Send a private message to Taxg8r00

Send email to Taxg8r00

Find all posts by Taxg8r00

Add Taxg8r00 to Your Contacts

#121

Today, 06:59 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Sep 2009


Posts: 2,022

Real Name: Dave

Quote:

Originally Posted by reliefcp

Do you have any (SWISS) autos?

Sorry don't have any swiss auto's

__________________

icewolf64

View Public Profile




#122

Today, 06:59 PM

erictrumpet Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Nov 2009

Posts: 1,857

Anyone with a Swiss Made RD they are willing to open?

__________________

erictrumpet

View Public Profile

Send a private message to erictrumpet

Find all posts by erictrumpet

Add erictrumpet to Your Contacts

#123

Today, 07:02 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Sep 2009


Posts: 2,022

Real Name: Dave

Quote:

Originally Posted by erictrumpet

Anyone with a Swiss Made RD they are willing to open?

I opened my offshore RD which does have a swiss movement and it states on the dial

swiss made.

__________________

icewolf64

View Public Profile




#124

Today, 07:14 PM

gman66 Senior Member Veteran Geek

Join Date: Mar 2010

Location: Citrus Heights, CA Posts: 702

Real Name: Gary

1. There have been countless threads on the whole Swiss/ not Swiss thing, with no

resolution.

2. I made light of it, as it was going nowhere IMO

3. Proof of China parts in Swiss labeled watches has been posted

4. I apologize to anyone I may have offended with my sarcasm

5. And now we can see things being touted as something other than what they really

are, and that is disturbing.

I'll be interested in what we may hear after the holiday is over. This could be pretty

damn big...

__________________


gman66

View Public Profile




#125

Today, 07:17 PM

erictrumpet Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Nov 2009

Posts: 1,857

Quote:


I opened my offshore RD which does have a swiss movement and it states on the dial swiss made.

To be expected. No surprise. Also no surprise (to me) that the watches labeled

"Swiss" are indeed not.

Eric.

__________________


Master WatchGeek

Join Date: May 2009


Posts: 2,518

Real Name: C.J.

Quote:


Flyback, Can you put together a Sticky in the General Swiss Watch Forum? A comprehensive post, that would be used to point to, every time this comes up.

You asked this yesterday and what do you think now? I think it should.

__________________

reliefcp

View Public Profile




#127

Today, 07:22 PM

bichondaddy1057 Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Spring, TX Posts: 2,039

Real Name: Larry

Yep...this subject has been beat to death....

__________________

Larry in Spring, Tx

bichondaddy1057

View Public Profile

Send a private message to bichondaddy1057

Send email to bichondaddy1057

Find all posts by bichondaddy1057

Add bichondaddy1057 to Your Contacts

#128

Today, 07:23 PM


Master WatchGeek

Join Date: Mar 2008


Posts: 4,692 Real Name: Jerry

So Invicta has been putting Chinese Swiss parts movements in watches they claim to

be "Swiss Made." What excuse or explanation can they make? I'm waiting to hear

how they explain this. When I say Invicta I mean Eyal. He is the CEO of the company

and should know how his watches are being manufactured, and take responsibility for

his company's actions.

__________________

timeman

View Public Profile




#129

Today, 07:39 PM

watchluv Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2008

Posts: 2,307

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkromer

I think the real answer, the 5040 is an upgrade, regardless of country of origin.

I'll take a G-10 Swiss Made movement any day over a 5040 Swiss parts movement.

__________________

Time to Watch as Time Passes Away

watchluv

View Public Profile

Send a private message to watchluv

Find all posts by watchluv

Add watchluv to Your Contacts

#130

Today, 07:49 PM

MREXE Senior Member

Veteran Geek

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: colorado

Posts: 969

to all the "BEAT TO DEATH" comments, apparently not, I personnally, have been

waiting paitently for this, I have been berated, insulted, and demonized for "implying"

that the brand was dishonest...........JUST STAND UP, INVICTA, i personally have

spent over 12k on Invicta wathes........and knew all along what I was buying. that

said, I also knew what a true Swiss watch cost. I cant afford 20-200k watch. so, I buy

"shop" watches. nuf said

MREXE

View Public Profile




#131

Today, 07:54 PM


Veteran Geek

Join Date: Mar 2010


Posts: 702 Real Name: Gary

Quote:


to all the "BEAT TO DEATH" comments, apparently not, I personnally, have been waiting paitently for this, I have been berated, insulted, and demonized for

"implying" that the brand was dishonest...........JUST STAND UP, INVICTA, i personally have spent over 12k on Invicta wathes........and knew all along what I was buying. that said, I also knew what a true Swiss watch cost. I cant afford 20-

200k watch. so, I buy "shop" watches. nuf said

I recently started a thread on what would be the story of the year for Invicta. It's

dormant now, but we may have a winner with how this gets handled...

__________________


gman66

View Public Profile




#132

Today, 07:57 PM

RDG Senior Member

True WatchGeek

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 5,298

Swiss, Swiss Made, Swiss Components, Swiss Parts, Swiss Cheese, who cares!

__________________

RDG

View Public Profile

Send a private message to RDG

Find all posts by RDG

Add RDG to Your Contacts

#133

Today, 07:59 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2008

Posts: 2,307

So to sum this up, it is safe to assume that any Invicta with Swiss or Swiss Movement

on the dial has a Swiss Parts Movement (these are code words for Asian movements).

And if it says Swiss Made then it has a Swiss Movement inside. That makes sence

because if you have a Swiss Movement and it was assembled in Switzerland you

would be proud to put Swiss Made on the dial and maybe the case back.

__________________


watchluv

View Public Profile




#134

Today, 08:01 PM

Argabright Senior Member

Super Geek

Join Date: Jul 2009

Posts: 1,757

Quote:

Originally Posted by RDG


Obviously some people care or else misleading marketing (to be most charitable)

wouldn't be required...

__________________

Argabright

View Public Profile

Send a private message to Argabright

Find all posts by Argabright

Add Argabright to Your Contacts

#135

Today, 08:03 PM

samuelrz Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: May 2009

Location: N. California Posts: 1,299

Real Name: Sam

Swiss Made means 51% per se. Why aren't you guys complaining about the other

49%???

Stop buying Invicta and let this thread die please.

__________________

SAM - http://www.giltman.com/invite/samuelrz

samuelrz

View Public Profile





#136

Today, 08:07 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Redding,CA

Posts: 1,608

Real Name: Jim

Quote:

Originally Posted by RDG


You know, I really don't care about the movement so much on a less than 200 buck

watch.

I do care however when I get treated like a rube. The owner of the company mislead

me...his employees mislead me and I feel like an idiot for trusting them.

__________________

bigjimzlll

View Public Profile




#137

Today, 08:20 PM


Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2008

Posts: 2,307

Time Bandit wrote:

"In my example, It's not a "Swiss Parts Movement" built in China.

It is actually a Zero Jewel Chinese Movement, not a "Swiss Parts Movement" built in

China.

This is a different scenario than Icewolf's scenario, where his says Swiss and it's built

in China."

I see what your saying. That adds on to list of using Asian movements and labeling

them as Swiss or Swiss Movements on the dials.

__________________


watchluv

View Public Profile




#138

Today, 08:23 PM


Master WatchGeek

Join Date: May 2009


Posts: 2,518 Real Name: C.J.

Quote:


You know, I really don't care about the movement so much on a less than 200 buck watch. I do care however when I get treated like a rube. The owner of the company

mislead me...his employees mislead me and I feel like an idiot for trusting them.

I dont care about the movement either they make quality watches for the most part

but what I cant get out of my brain is Eyal hammering home these are TOTALLY

SWISS MADE watches when in fact its not true at all.

__________________

reliefcp

View Public Profile




#139

Today, 09:37 PM

chitown Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Tampa Florida Posts: 1,645

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclefixit

Originally Posted by RenatoDiamond Very nice, this is one of the swiss movement (not swiss made) RD's. Sorry Gene that would be incorrect.

The words "Swiss" or "Swiss Made", usually at the 6 o'clock position on the

dail, indicate a watch built meeting the guidelines of the Swiss Federation

of Horology.

The words "Swiss Movement" (in the same font) indicate only a "Swiss

built movement" that has been encased and assymbled into a completed

watch, in a non-Swiss factory.

The words "Swiss movt." (note abbreviation) indicate a non-Swiss

assymbled movement and of course watch.

That's about as simple as I can put it.

Quote: Originally Posted by 50mm&up I got a Sea Spider from InvictaShark that has a 5040D Ronda asian parts movt. It says swiss at 6:00. lol. Anybody's guess is as good as mine and it doesn't really

matter to me. You're getting a sweet RD for $90, whats the problem?

Rick I know the watch your talking about, the Sea Spider Sport. It's the one that caused a big to-doo here because it was sold with an

incorrectly labeled dail ("Swiss" meaning Swiss Made). This mistake (by the dail manufacturer) during manufacturing wasn't

caught until after the watches were finished and ready for sale. That's why your watch is labeled as it is...doesn't mean your watch is poor

in quaility by any means.

What it does mean is that you saved a hell of alot of money and got a great

watch. Search is your friend...

Here is another quote, their must be a thousand different variations on this subject

A Swiss watch movement

As we have seen, to be Swiss, a watch must use a Swiss movement. According to

Section 2 OSM, a movement is considered to be Swiss if:

• it has been assembled in Switzerland;

• it has been inspected by the manufacturer in Switzerland; and

• the components of Swiss manufacture account for at least 50 percent of the total value, without taking into account the cost of assembly.

If the movement fulfills these conditions, but the watch is not assembled in

Switzerland, the "Swiss" indication may be affixed to one of the components of the

movement. On the outside of the watch, may then only appear the "mouvement

suisse" or "Swiss movement" indication. Section 3 § 3 OSM requires that the word

"movement" appear in full, and be written in the same type-face, of identical size and

colour, as the word "Swiss".

-----------Right -----------------------Wrong

chitown

View Public Profile

Send a private message to chitown

Send email to chitown

Find all posts by chitown

Add chitown to Your Contacts

#140

Today, 09:50 PM


True WatchGeek

Join Date: Feb 2008



Quote:

Originally Posted by chitown

Here is another quote, their must be a thousand different variations on this subject A Swiss watch movement

As we have seen, to be Swiss, a watch must use a Swiss movement. According to Section 2 OSM, a movement is considered to be Swiss if:

• it has been assembled in Switzerland;

• it has been inspected by the manufacturer in Switzerland; and

• the components of Swiss manufacture account for at least 50 percent of the total value, without taking into account the cost of assembly.

If the movement fulfills these conditions, but the watch is not assembled in Switzerland, the "Swiss" indication may be affixed to one of the components of the movement. On the outside of the watch, may then only appear the "mouvement

suisse" or "Swiss movement" indication. Section 3 § 3 OSM requires that the word "movement" appear in full, and be written in the same type-face, of identical size and colour, as the word "Swiss".

-----------Right -----------------------Wrong

For the umpteenth time:

If a company is not a member of the Swiss Federation, they DO NOT

have to comply with any of this unless there is some other controlling factor that forces them to.

In the United States:

1. Swiss Made is a registered trademark of the the Swiss Federation. Anyone who places Swiss Made on a dial of a watch sold in the U.S.

must follow the Federation requirements due to their trademark.

2. To put Swiss on the dial in the U.S. has nothing to do with the

federation, you have to follow U.S. Customs country or origin labeling requirements, that specify that the country of origin is where the

movement is made, the watch can be assembled anywhere and so long at it's a Swiss movement, the dial can say Swiss. __________________


Flyback

View Public Profile




#141

Today, 10:18 PM

Justin Time Senior Member

Veteran Geek

Join Date: Aug 2009

Location: U.S.A.

Posts: 964

Real Name: Bo

Eye Opening and Jaw Dropping thread.

As for me, I still prefer the words

"SWISS MADE" -

Nevertheless... that 'Apogaum" with the Chinese 7750 looks like a pretty cool watch.

Also, the Marine Militare watches always get raves from WG's -

__________________

Copa Mundial

2010!

New Movement Invictas marked Swiss when in fact chinese

Documents

Transcript of New Movement Invictas marked Swiss when in fact chinese