Mfr Nara- t8- Na- Columbia u Wtc Evac Study- 10-21-02- 00167

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COMMISSION SENSITIVE ."[Unclassified]

Event: Meeting at Columbia U.Type of event: BriefingDate; Oct. 21,2002Special Access Issues: NA .Prepared by.EmilyWalkerTeam Number: 8Location: Columbia U.Participants - Non-Commission: Dr. Robyn Gershon, Dr. Elizabeth Smailes.Dr, KristineQureshi, Erin Hogan of The World Trade Center Evacuation Study; SallyRegenhardandMonica Gabrielle - Skyscraper Safety CampaignParticipants' - Commission: Emily Walker, Sam Caspersen" Cate Taylpt, George Delgrosso, EllieHartz

At the invitation of Sally Regenhard and Monica Gabrielle oftheSkycraper Safety Campaign,, ) Team 8 setup a meeting with the.Columbia University Study forthe World Trade Center

Evacuation in order to be briefed on the results of their study thus far. Thestudy.beganinZouzand expects to finish in 2004. Dr. Robyn Gershon led the discussion. Following an introduction,"of the participants, includingsome description of the 9..J1 Private 'Sector Preparedness hearing


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COMMISSION SENSITIVEstudy. NIST has changed its mind andwill not give them the list due to privacy laws and'they are struggling as to how to get there sample now.

" _ " >

2. They are halfway through the study and expect to complete by COY 2004.' They are atthe questionnaire stage.3. They are following a theoretical model-which appears tohold up in most cases.4. They are covering only.W'TC 1 and 2.5. There is somedispute about the number of people who made itout from below the of the

planes impact.6. There are many-questions on the timeline which makes'it difficult for them when

interviewing to pinpoint the exact time people evacuated.7. There appear tpbe contradictions to the datathe USf\Todayr,eporter, DennisCouchon,

It'suppliedas towhere sb'ineof the survivors came from; .Forexample, from theirinterview,S, it~ppears that some people in Tower lwereon the lower floors and when

. " ' " " ' - - - - . " ' . . " "" - . , - " > .Tower. 2 collapsed, the debris from that Tower impeded their departure from-Tower 1.8. Sally Regenhard interjected that if the firefighters had been given proper communication, '

they could have' gotten more people oJlt'ratherth~n heading upstairs.9. There was some discussion on the issues related to handicapped employees evacuation

and how this slowed-down the process and what steps could be'takento help these people" " ," '" ,,.in the future.

10. Dr. Gershon saidthat.data currently points to the fact that the WTC towers were terriblylacking in readiness. Somefire wardens did not know where thestairwells were.


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COMMISSION SENSITIVE, 11. Sally Regenhard interjected that the Port Authority-did not follow NY fire code. She

feels that even though they state, that they exceeded- the NY Code, this isa falsestatement. 'She feels that the PA should not-be above the law and that they should haveaccourit~bility. In addition, she I S concerned over the fact.that the'new \yTC 7 building isfollowing the s~me path as the previous buildings in terms of not 'applying ,the NYC firecode. She felt this should be pointed out.

12. Dr. Gershon felt that OSHA standards were usable but theywere not enforceable. Theydid call fhr at?-evacuation plan. Th~y feel that, different regulations are needed forbuildings above 1Os,torieswhich could coverover 700.~buildingsin NYC. She does NOT. " )feel that skyscrapers are safe places to work.

13. Dr.Smailes spoke about the interviewsand the kind ofdata they-have found from theirfocus groups. She saidthatolder people who had previously been in events, particularlythe military-and National Guard," showed evacuation leadership.and galvanized people.

Background:Attachment 1: Agenda of MeetingAttachment 2: PowerPoint PresentationAttachment 3: Assessing the Impact of Research on Disaster SurvivorsAttachment 4: Support Services Brochure


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Factors Associated with the Evacuation of Dr. Robyn Gershon

Tuesday, October 21, 2003, 11:00 a.m.

Purpose: To provide an overview of the World Trade Center Evacuation Study andpreliminary findings and recommendations to the 9-11 Commission.

Where: Elinson Conference Room,600 West 168th Street, 4th Floor Center, New York, NY 10032


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Mfr Nara- t8- Na- Columbia u Wtc Evac Study- 10-21-02- 00167

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