#Meded Twitter Chat 9 June 2011 UK/EU

8/6/2019 #Meded Twitter Chat 9 June 2011 UK/EU

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10/06/2011 11:08#meded - Healthcare Twitter Transcript

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#meded

Healthcare Hashtag Twitter Transcript

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To: Thu Jun 09 15:05:00 PDT 2011

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amcunningham @JosephLightfoot@alexwintermute@KatieHutch91@studentdocdiary@D_Rodders@FayetheGEP ready for #meded chat in 2 mins?Thu Jun 9 12:58:43 PDT 2011

amcunningham @riddmj hope you can join us for the #meded chat starting now?Thu Jun 9 12:59:19 PDT 2011

nlafferty Hello and welcome to this week's chat, go ahead and introduce yourself and saywhere you're from #mededThu Jun 9 13:01:22 PDT 2011

amcunningham @GPforhire@ffolliet@EasternDoc@keirshiels@drpaulmorgan hope you can join#meded chat now - learning from clinical placementsThu Jun 9 13:01:34 PDT 2011

amcunningham @D_Rodders it's going to be a discussion about learning from placements :) #mededThu Jun 9 13:02:14 PDT 2011

nlafferty The topic for this week's #meded chat is clinical placements and how we canimprove the learning on themThu Jun 9 13:02:39 PDT 2011

amcunningham Hi. I'm Anne Marie- a GP and clinical lecturer in Cardiff Uni #mededThu Jun 9 13:02:46 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @nlafferty: The topic for this week's #meded chat is clinical placements and howwe can improve the learning on themThu Jun 9 13:02:58 PDT 2011

mysleepbot RT @mkmackey: Love it young #entrepreneurs in action Sleep Bot tracking sleeppatterns http://bit.ly/jS9SaJ#healthapps#mededThu Jun 9 13:03:02 PDT 2011

MhairiHe burn #meded Evening all! I'm Mhairi, I'm an old age psychiatry registrar and I've been


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(im)patiently waiting for 9pm!Thu Jun 9 13:03:16 PDT 2011

nlafferty #meded I'm Natalie - a lecturer in e-learning in DundeeThu Jun 9 13:03:23 PDT 2011

nlafferty @MhairiHepburn Great - looking forward to hearing some of your ideas Mhairi

#mededThu Jun 9 13:03:52 PDT 2011

amcunningham @D_Rodders hello Dominic- thanks for joining :) #mededThu Jun 9 13:04:36 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary Hi, I'm Lily, a final year med student #mededThu Jun 9 13:04:43 PDT 2011

amcunningham @studentdocdiary lots of med student expertise here tonight:) #mededThu Jun 9 13:05:04 PDT 2011

DrDLittle #meded I'm David, clinical teaching fellow, soon to be radiology trainee. Might beable to stay for a short while.Thu Jun 9 13:05:26 PDT 2011

AnnalisaManca hello, I'm Annalisa, I'm an educational technologist #mededThu Jun 9 13:05:31 PDT 2011

GamerOfFreedom Hi I'm GamerOfFreedom a follower of @D_Rodders#mededThu Jun 9 13:05:39 PDT 2011

amcunningham @DrDLittle@GamerOfFreedom@AnnalisaManca great- welcome:) #mededThu Jun 9 13:06:05 PDT 2011

nlafferty #meded WOuld anyone like to kick things off with a particular question or commentabout clinical placements?Thu Jun 9 13:06:54 PDT 2011

amcunningham So how can students get the most from learning on clinical placements? Any tips for

staff or students? #mededThu Jun 9 13:06:59 PDT 2011

amcunningham @paulderoos are you joining #meded chat tonight? we're talking about learning onclinical placements:)Thu Jun 9 13:07:52 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn #meded we need to get as many clinicians as possible excited about teachingstudents on the job! enthusiastic teacher=great placement!Thu Jun 9 13:08:07 PDT 2011

drpaulmorgan #meded Paul, ICU consultant. Hello.Thu Jun 9 13:08:09 PDT 2011


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amcunningham @amreeeves how can you learn most from clinical placemenmts? tonight's topic for#meded chatThu Jun 9 13:08:18 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary Students need to be more involved in the team, I often felt left out during placement#mededThu Jun 9 13:08:24 PDT 2011

amcunningham @drpaulmorgan Hello Paul- do you see many students on placements? #mededThu Jun 9 13:08:49 PDT 2011

nlafferty @drpaulmorgan Hi Paul welcome to #meded chatThu Jun 9 13:08:49 PDT 2011

amreeeves #meded ooh, little late, but I'm Andy, 3rd year student at Leicester!Thu Jun 9 13:09:12 PDT 2011

DrDLittle #meded placements very dependent on how engaged junior doctors are, consultantsless important.Thu Jun 9 13:09:13 PDT 2011

amcunningham @studentdocdiary how could you be involved more? especially in earlier years?#mededThu Jun 9 13:09:30 PDT 2011

nlafferty @MhairiHepburn Do you think most of your colleagues are excited about teachingstudents? How can we make them more excited? #mededThu Jun 9 13:09:51 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn #meded also 1:1 shadowing of drs to see what they do apart from seeing pts- all theadmin and management stuff you dont get at med school!Thu Jun 9 13:09:53 PDT 2011

amcunningham @amreeeves great- glad you can make it:) #mededThu Jun 9 13:10:00 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary @amcunningham Being more involved with junior drs, given the chance to clerk ptsand present them, asked our ideas on management #mededThu Jun 9 13:10:20 PDT 2011

DrDLittle @studentdocdiary works both ways, students have to engage too. I rarely did as astudent #mededThu Jun 9 13:10:30 PDT 2011

Bambamaki hello everyone.I passed my finals a few weeks ago..starting as an fy1 in cardiology inAugust #mededThu Jun 9 13:10:41 PDT 2011

amreeeves @MhairiHepburn agree completely, nothing makes a worse placement than a rude#meded

Thu Jun 9 13:11:16 PDT 2011


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studentdocdiary @DrDLittle very true. Why didn't you engage as a student? I sometimes hung backbecause I felt quite intimidated #mededThu Jun 9 13:11:39 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn @nlafferty#meded some are, some are not! more knowledge about teaching helps-most drs are not taught how to teach, so are wary of doing itThu Jun 9 13:11:45 PDT 2011

amcunningham @DrDLittle I did portfolio reviews with 1st yrs today -early clinical attachments-they're getting the hang of this -ask! ask! ask! #mededThu Jun 9 13:12:16 PDT 2011

BeanBlogger I'm a 1st yr.Best placement was when I got to listen to a heart murmur. It's simple,but the Dr got me involved #mededThu Jun 9 13:12:44 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn #meded also knowing what the curriculum involves, what the students already knowand what we need to teach them!Thu Jun 9 13:13:19 PDT 2011

nlafferty @studentdocdiary Do we need to do more to introduce you to the clinical team foreach placement , can we do more to help prepare you #mededThu Jun 9 13:13:20 PDT 2011

amcunningham @Bambamaki big congratulations! well done! thanks for joining us:) #mededThu Jun 9 13:13:21 PDT 2011

amcunningham @BeanBlogger that's great:) how would next placement be for you? #mededThu Jun 9 13:13:50 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary @BeanBlogger Agreed, best placements get you involved, worst placements makeyou sit in the corner in silence just watching #mededThu Jun 9 13:13:56 PDT 2011

nlafferty Good point RT @MhairiHepburn: #meded also knowing what curriculum involves,what the students already know and what we need to teach them!Thu Jun 9 13:13:59 PDT 2011

BeanBlogger If you know what the students coming to you have covered let them do it. I can takeBP, do resp, GI & cardio exams. #mededThu Jun 9 13:14:01 PDT 2011

paulderoos #meded@amcunningham As junior doctor I focus on what my interns/clerkshipstudents want to learn and offer them practice + feedbackThu Jun 9 13:14:22 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary @nlafferty I think it would make things a lot less intimidating if we were properlyintroduced to the team #mededThu Jun 9 13:14:29 PDT 2011

amreeeves @amcunningham I've found it great to follow a pt as far through their care aspossible #mededThu Jun 9 13:14:38 PDT 2011


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nlafferty @Bambamaki Hi - congratulations and all the best in your FY1 post #mededThu Jun 9 13:14:43 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn #meded and in psychiatry, seeing that teaching improves attitudes to mental illness,that's a big motivatorThu Jun 9 13:14:48 PDT 2011

DrDLittle #meded ward rounds are particularly bad for learning on placement. Even teachingrounds often unproductiveThu Jun 9 13:14:56 PDT 2011

paulderoos #meded@amcunningham especially immediate feedback and supervised practice, issomething I wish I had more myself.. so I give it 2 them.Thu Jun 9 13:15:12 PDT 2011

amcunningham @studentdocdiary how could the introductions be better? does anyone feel that theiruni does this well? #mededThu Jun 9 13:15:15 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn #meded oi where's everyone else gone? what gives you enthusiasm for teachingmed students and how can we pass that enthusiasm to colleagues?Thu Jun 9 13:15:54 PDT 2011

amcunningham @ffolliet but there is an awful lot to be learnt from observing clinical work and askyourself and others questions #mededThu Jun 9 13:16:03 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary @DrDLittle I found ITU ward rounds really useful, the consultant watched meexamine EVERY patient and discussed managment plans #mededThu Jun 9 13:16:18 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @DrDLittle: great, the more they learn that the better. I always encourage them toask. What is the worst that can happen? #mededThu Jun 9 13:16:22 PDT 2011

amreeeves @amcunningham followed a pt through pre, peri and post knee replacement not longago, very rewarding to see how the op affected them #mededThu Jun 9 13:16:26 PDT 2011

BeanBlogger I don't feel brave enough or experienced to know what I'm allowed to do or to askwhat I can do but I'd love to try anything #mededThu Jun 9 13:16:55 PDT 2011

amcunningham @amreeeves that's brilliant- was that all in hospital or OP as well? #mededThu Jun 9 13:16:57 PDT 2011

ZGchat #meded use of sound business training & coaching principles may well fuel clinicallearning w regards to attitudes & generic skills #ZGchatThu Jun 9 13:17:16 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary @amcunningham Would be nice just to be introduced to more than the consultantand told when is the best time to get hold of people #mededThu Jun 9 13:17:30 PDT 2011


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amcunningham RT @jemmatuesday: altho difficult I know, students need 2 have a clear idea if whtthey wnt 2 get out of the day.So they arnt aimless #mededThu Jun 9 13:17:44 PDT 2011

DrDLittle @amcunningham@studentdocdiary very difficult because of lack of resources andbusy juniors #mededThu Jun 9 13:17:55 PDT 2011

nlafferty @studentdocdiary Would it be helpful if there were some into resources thatintroduced you to the team, maybe a video even? #mededThu Jun 9 13:18:12 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret Better late than never! I'm Elizabeth, Dundee Student. #mededThu Jun 9 13:18:24 PDT 2011

amreeeves @amcunningham only in hospital, didn't have chance to follow them after dischargeunfortunately #mededThu Jun 9 13:18:34 PDT 2011

drpaulmorgan @DrDLittle#meded For us, trainee docs less important, consultants more so. Ifstudents keen to learn, they will be taught.Thu Jun 9 13:18:36 PDT 2011

nlafferty @LizzyFerret Hi Lizzy :) #mededThu Jun 9 13:18:40 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @EsdeGroot: Tim Dornan + Pim Theunissen at Maastricht Univ have doneresearch . Nice model on learning in clin placements #mededThu Jun 9 13:18:51 PDT 2011

jemmatuesday Students need to look enthusiastic. They need to appear in control of their learningneeds a bit more. #mededThu Jun 9 13:19:08 PDT 2011

amcunningham @EsdeGroot great- we want to see if students and staff here say the same things:)#mededThu Jun 9 13:19:16 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret Dundee have ward teaching weekly, sometimes it's great, alot of the time it's not asthe Drs hve no clue about current block/curric #mededThu Jun 9 13:19:20 PDT 2011

paulderoos #meded as a junior doc I appreciate if interns hang out with me longer than just a fewdays.. I then will invest much more time in themThu Jun 9 13:19:22 PDT 2011

jemmatuesday Jemma, CT1 medicine at busy hospital. #mededThu Jun 9 13:20:12 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret RT @studentdocdiary: @amcunningham Would be nice just to be introduced tomore than the consultant and told when is the best time to get hold of people

#mededThu Jun 9 13:20:17 PDT 2011


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studentdocdiary @nlafferty One placement I was on had booklets of names, photos, bleep numbersand photos. They also held a lunch for us all on day 1 #mededThu Jun 9 13:20:30 PDT 2011

nlafferty Are there some specialties that are better than this than others #meded or does itreally depend on individual teachersThu Jun 9 13:20:36 PDT 2011

nlafferty RT @studentdocdiary: @nlafferty One placement I was on had booklets of names,photos, bleep numbers and photos. They also held a lunch for us all on day 1#mededThu Jun 9 13:20:47 PDT 2011

paulderoos @amcunningham, @jemmatuesday: I briefly outline to students where/how they canfind learning opportunities, so they have a choice #mededThu Jun 9 13:20:49 PDT 2011

amcunningham @jemmatuesday yes, students sometimes say they were 'lucky' on placement butthey tend to make their own luck #mededThu Jun 9 13:20:50 PDT 2011

DrDLittle @nlafferty@studentdocdiary#meded but then team changes every 4 months?Thu Jun 9 13:21:12 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn #meded in psych, longer placements make a difference as the students can see ptsgetting better- 1 week is not long in our world!Thu Jun 9 13:21:14 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @nlafferty: Are there some specialties that are better than this than others#meded or does it really depend on individual teachers

Thu Jun 9 13:21:14 PDT 2011

paulderoos RT @ZGchat: #meded use of sound business training & coaching principles maywell fuel clinical learning w regards to attitudes & generic ...Thu Jun 9 13:21:18 PDT 2011

drpaulmorgan @LizzyFerret#meded Yes, a real problem if current curriculum not known toclinicians. Med. school should invest the time, not simply expectThu Jun 9 13:21:30 PDT 2011

Bambamaki @paulderoos I agree.help the team and they will help you by teaching you smth.But

also depends on the team.been on good and bad firms #mededThu Jun 9 13:21:35 PDT 2011

paulderoos #meded@amreeeves oh.. how as a junior doc I'd wish to know what happens to mypatients after discharge.. never see them again...unless ill.Thu Jun 9 13:22:03 PDT 2011

nlafferty @drpaulmorgan Fair enough to say if students keen they will learn but what ifclinicians don't engage with teaching #mededThu Jun 9 13:22:04 PDT 2011

amcunningham @Bambamaki yes, I tell students to ask how they can help... maybe even just offerto make a cup of tea:) #mededThu Jun 9 13:22:14 PDT 2011


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studentdocdiary @DrDLittle@nlafferty True, but names, bleeps and photos on a bit of paper is do-able. #mededThu Jun 9 13:22:29 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @ffolliet: #meded look for alternatives. surgeon busy? talk to anaesthetics, gowith patients to radiology (cont) http://deck.ly/~KMP4dThu Jun 9 13:22:37 PDT 2011

jemmatuesday @amcunningham yes definitely. If students interested and ask, they will be taughtand offered more teaching. #mededThu Jun 9 13:22:54 PDT 2011

nlafferty @DrDLittle True to some degree but how about being introduced to senior nursingstaff who are happy to get involved #mededThu Jun 9 13:22:54 PDT 2011

amreeeves @nlafferty I'd sway toward individuals, have had colleagues love rheum placementbut our consultant was awful to us so hated it #mededThu Jun 9 13:22:54 PDT 2011

katellington RT @psychcentral: 12 Tips for Surviving and Thriving in Grad Schoolhttp://bit.ly/koxZWv with @DRCWN offering great advice #mededThu Jun 9 13:23:07 PDT 2011

DrDLittle @studentdocdiary@nlafferty#meded sounds amazing?! If only all placements werelike thatThu Jun 9 13:23:13 PDT 2011

Bambamaki I believe in giving more 'responsibility' you have to wet the students appetite forlearning..allocate a patient to each student #mededThu Jun 9 13:23:36 PDT 2011

amcunningham from a 1st year student:) RT @D_Rodders: Go talk to the doctors and ask if you canshadow them at anytime #mededThu Jun 9 13:23:40 PDT 2011

nlafferty Absolutely do-able RT @studentdocdiary: @DrDLittle@nlafferty True, but names,bleeps and photos on a bit of paper is do-able. #mededThu Jun 9 13:23:46 PDT 2011

amreeeves @amcunningham@bambamaki haha I've found spending the early parts of aplacement making tea means anyone'll do anything for you #mededThu Jun 9 13:24:07 PDT 2011

alexwintermute Here's a novel suggestion. How about med students do some HCA shifts. Every oneI know that's worked as one said it's invaluable! #mededThu Jun 9 13:24:13 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @amreeeves: @bambamaki haha I've found spending the early parts of aplacement making tea means anyone'll do anything for you #mededThu Jun 9 13:24:27 PDT 2011

Bambamaki ask them to follow through the patient for how many days/weeks..present..take therole of the fy1..it worked for me #mededThu Jun 9 13:24:32 PDT 2011


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paulderoos #meded@drpaulmorgan I don't believe it's much often about teaching..it's aboutcreating an environment where one can learn (act of student)Thu Jun 9 13:24:32 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @Bambamaki: ask them to follow through the patient for how manydays/weeks..present..take the role of the fy1..it worked for me #mededThu Jun 9 13:24:48 PDT 2011

jemmatuesday It would be helpful if on first day of placement, students introduced themselves (notalways done!) &outlined learning needs so... #mededThu Jun 9 13:24:55 PDT 2011

nlafferty Here at Dundee @DundeeJunior has been tweeting learning opportunities tostudents but very few interested or subscribing #mededThu Jun 9 13:24:55 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary I've heard of placements having compulsory attendance sign ups for each day, is thistreating students like babies? #mededThu Jun 9 13:24:58 PDT 2011

alexwintermute An engaging teacher can stir an apathetic student, shame it doesn't work the otherway round #mededThu Jun 9 13:25:09 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @studentdocdiary: I've heard of placements having compulsory attendance signups for each day, is this treating students like babies? #mededThu Jun 9 13:25:10 PDT 2011

DrDLittle #meded as a teaching fellow I have time to take students to see patients on their

ward and spend time 1-2-1. Clinical staff can't, too busyThu Jun 9 13:25:15 PDT 2011

amreeeves @alexwintermute I'd jump at the opportunity. #mededThu Jun 9 13:25:18 PDT 2011

paulderoos RT @amcunningham: RT @EsdeGroot: Tim Dornan + Pim Theunissen at MaastrichtUniv have done research . Nice model on learning in clin placements #mededThu Jun 9 13:25:38 PDT 2011

jemmatuesday ..a team plan could be made. Half the time students are not there/clinic/lectures, &

we juniors have no clue what they need to do #mededThu Jun 9 13:26:15 PDT 2011

drpaulmorgan @nlafferty#meded True, a big problem. If consultants don't teach students then med.school shouldn't send them, consultant lose hon'ry roleThu Jun 9 13:26:17 PDT 2011

paulderoos @amcunningham@esdegroot their work was very nice indeed #mededThu Jun 9 13:26:32 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn@studentdocdiary#meded I suppose so, but recent attendance at psych placementshas been really badThu Jun 9 13:26:37 PDT 2011


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LizzyFerret @nlafferty@studentdocdiary@drdlittle expecting contact then it could open all sortsof channels for #mededThu Jun 9 13:26:51 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary @jemmatuesday Good idea, how can drs be expected to teach unless they knowwhat students need to learn? #mededThu Jun 9 13:27:12 PDT 2011

DrDLittle #meded@drpaulmorgan@lizzyferret a med ed grand round is a great opportunity toupdate clinicians on local undergrad teachingThu Jun 9 13:27:12 PDT 2011

paulderoos @bambamaki isn't #meded all about quality social interactions... treat students ashumans and they are actually very usefull in practiceThu Jun 9 13:27:56 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary @MhairiHepburn I've always noticed attendance as a problem at med school, whichseems strange as we've all worked hard to get there. #mededThu Jun 9 13:27:57 PDT 2011

DrDLittle @studentdocdiary@nlafferty should be expected of supervising consultant IMO#mededThu Jun 9 13:28:14 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret @alexwintermute but not be enforced to do them. Shouldn't be part of curric toshadow HCAs/RNs/RMs for a shift! #mededThu Jun 9 13:28:28 PDT 2011

nlafferty Is the curriculum accessible to consultants - can we make it more accessible so theyare more aware #meded

Thu Jun 9 13:28:29 PDT 2011

drpaulmorgan @paulderoos Hopefully, we provide such an environment. As we now have F1'simportant to provide high-quality teaching. #mededThu Jun 9 13:28:30 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @nlafferty: Is the curriculum accessible to consultants - can we make it moreaccessible so they are more aware #mededThu Jun 9 13:28:53 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret @amcunningham@amreeeves@bambamaki I've found coffee is the way to most

senior's hearts :) #mededThu Jun 9 13:28:57 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn @DrDLittle#meded grand round sounds good- that's going in the ideas book, sorry Imean Evernote...Thu Jun 9 13:28:57 PDT 2011

nlafferty @mmayerp Hi Good to see you again! #mededThu Jun 9 13:29:05 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret RT @alexwintermute: An engaging teacher can stir an apathetic student, shame itdoesn't work the other way round #mededThu Jun 9 13:29:21 PDT 2011


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amcunningham @LizzyFerret@ffolliet do you have a sense about the students that come to you onplacement? where they are at in course? #mededThu Jun 9 13:29:34 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn @nlafferty#meded at Dundee, not so much. They will need it on paper not onlinetoo, some of our lot are scared of the computers!Thu Jun 9 13:30:00 PDT 2011

paulderoos #meded@amcunningham@bambamaki cup of coffee/tea, chocolate & cookies.these all work well to create a better learning / work environment..Thu Jun 9 13:30:06 PDT 2011

jemmatuesday I think undergrad could try and get us juniors involved bit more formally too, or atleast give us a bit of info. #mededThu Jun 9 13:30:13 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary @ffolliet I hope you didn't sign it! #mededThu Jun 9 13:30:22 PDT 2011

Bambamaki @studentdocdiary@MhairiHepburn it's because students are not taken seriously asmember of the team in the UK.. #mededThu Jun 9 13:30:25 PDT 2011

nlafferty Re poor attendance - is this an issue of professionalism, do people includeattendance in overall block mark? #mededThu Jun 9 13:30:31 PDT 2011

Brendano RT @alexwintermute: An engaging teacher can stir an apathetic student, shame itdoesn't work the other way round #mededThu Jun 9 13:30:57 PDT 2011

pendy41 @nlafferty@dundeejunior That's interesting I wasn't sure who those tweets wereaimed at! probs = not enough students on twitter? #mededThu Jun 9 13:31:11 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary @Bambamaki@MhairiHepburn That is sadly true, I think students should be givenmore responsibility and tasks #mededThu Jun 9 13:31:32 PDT 2011

DrDLittle @nlafferty we had a great med ed grand round recently to update clinicians on whatstudents need #mededThu Jun 9 13:31:36 PDT 2011

shoshanasmith RT @alexwintermute: Here's a novel suggestion. How about med students do someHCA shifts. Every one I know that's worked as one said it's invaluable! #mededThu Jun 9 13:31:56 PDT 2011

nlafferty @MhairiHepburn Maybe Dundee Psych will improve things - certainly increased GPengagement http://bit.ly/m3OIaI#mededThu Jun 9 13:31:58 PDT 2011

amcunningham @ffolliet no, they're not... but could we find a way to help them engage more inhelping students learn if they'd like to ? #meded many doThu Jun 9 13:32:07 PDT 2011


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loriblack @studentdocdiary@MhairiHepburn attendance can be a problem but often it'sfuelled in part by lack of teaching when present #mededThu Jun 9 13:32:08 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret @nlafferty but having constant registers and compulsory attendance can be verybabying. It's an adult leaning environment. #mededThu Jun 9 13:32:11 PDT 2011

paulderoos #meded@bambamaki So true! prepare a student to break news w patient and sitin..also very powerfull! Help out w a blink of an eye & supportThu Jun 9 13:32:21 PDT 2011

nlafferty @pendy41 Yes was talking with @dundeejunior today and none of current 20students on child health attachment on twitter #mededThu Jun 9 13:32:53 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn #meded@nlafferty yes it is a professionalism issue, I tell them they need to show usthey are ready to be doctors, first rule is TURN UP!!Thu Jun 9 13:32:59 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary @loriblack@MhairiHepburn Agreed, it's hard to get the motivation to turn up whenteaching is often cancelled. #mededThu Jun 9 13:33:07 PDT 2011

alexwintermute It seems sometimes that medicine is one of the last bastions of old schoolpaternalistic teaching. #mededThu Jun 9 13:33:14 PDT 2011

AnnalisaManca RT @MhairiHepburn: #meded@nlafferty yes it is a professionalism issue, I tell themthey need to show us they are ready to be doctors, f ...Thu Jun 9 13:33:16 PDT 2011

paulderoos @bambamaki Aren't internships often way to fragmented for longer follow up than afew days?! #mededThu Jun 9 13:33:22 PDT 2011

mmayerp Ask students, to stimulate them to ask, to participate in clinical sessions, andfollowing patients in Primary Care and hospital #mededThu Jun 9 13:33:31 PDT 2011

amcunningham @paulderoos gosh- student breaking bad news to a patient? usually we have that

done by those responsible for care... #mededThu Jun 9 13:33:50 PDT 2011

PamNelmesFoH Really impressed with my medical colleagues using Twitter to strike up engagingdebate #meded Tonight's focus is clinical placement #NUR325Thu Jun 9 13:33:51 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn @nlafferty#meded that's the GP blog you've linked to. I've got an account to post onDundee Psych- prepare for lots of exclamation marks!!!Thu Jun 9 13:34:10 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret@amcunningham@ffolliet I've only ever taught students as a nurse :) but from theother way round; no often it's a surprise to all! #mededThu Jun 9 13:34:16 PDT 2011


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loriblack #meded having said that, in my experience, if you attend all the time your far morelikely to have someone make a big effort to teach youThu Jun 9 13:34:17 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn #meded Dundee Psych http://medblogs.dundee.ac.uk/dundeepsych/Thu Jun 9 13:34:38 PDT 2011

DrDLittle @studentdocdiary@loriblack@mhairihepburn mismatch between students andclinician priorities can be a problem. #mededThu Jun 9 13:34:49 PDT 2011

nlafferty What are the good things about placements - what good practice can we share withthose who don't do so well? #mededThu Jun 9 13:34:54 PDT 2011

amcunningham I know tech is not always answer... but I had an idea about how we might try andhelp students learn on placement http://is.gd/UT7b50#mededThu Jun 9 13:35:21 PDT 2011

Bambamaki @paulderoos yes..the problem is that no one expects you to do the follow up orpresent this patient on a WR or discuss his care #mededThu Jun 9 13:35:26 PDT 2011

nlafferty @MhairiHepburn Yep - Dundee Psych still under construction so used GP site as aexample #mededThu Jun 9 13:35:27 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary @amcunningham@paulderoos I think students should be allowed to be presentwhen breaking bad news, I was nearly always told to leave #mededThu Jun 9 13:35:33 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret @amcunningham@paulderoos eeek indeed... Not sure I'd be comfortable with thatas the student (or the patient for that matter!) #mededThu Jun 9 13:35:45 PDT 2011

nlafferty @paulderoos Yes twitter about conversation but seems a good way to let studentsknow about learning opportunities, better than VLE? #mededThu Jun 9 13:36:25 PDT 2011

amcunningham @studentdocdiary I think they should be present at breaking bad news too- can bevery powerful learning #mededThu Jun 9 13:36:34 PDT 2011

Bambamaki @studentdocdiary ditto!I was asked to leave too..then we get BBN senarios forOSCES... #mededThu Jun 9 13:36:38 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @D_Rodders: @nlafferty actually seeing and talking to patients. cements theconditions in your mind and lets you meet interesting people! #mededThu Jun 9 13:36:49 PDT 2011

nlafferty RT @MhairiHepburn: #meded@nlafferty yes it is a professionalism issue, I tell themthey need to show us they are ready to be doctors, f ...Thu Jun 9 13:36:50 PDT 2011


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paulderoos only UK? RT @bambamaki: @studentdocdiary@MhairiHepburn it's becausestudents are not taken seriously as member of team in the UK.. #mededThu Jun 9 13:36:50 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary @amcunningham I think it's important for us to see it in action as in the future we'llbe the ones breaking bad news. #mededThu Jun 9 13:37:30 PDT 2011

nlafferty @D_Rodders Thanks for that, which placements have you had most opportunity totalk to patients? #mededThu Jun 9 13:37:51 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret @nlafferty@paulderoos def better! odd that students (>90% of whom havesmartphones) are slow to engage due to "not getting" twitter #mededThu Jun 9 13:37:54 PDT 2011

amcunningham @LizzyFerret maybe we have misunderstood @paulderoos re students breaking badnews #mededThu Jun 9 13:37:54 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary @Bambamaki and although role play is good for BBN, it's no substitute for seeing itin real life #mededThu Jun 9 13:38:02 PDT 2011

drpaulmorgan @loriblack#meded Certainly true in my experience. Be keen, overly so if needed.Make a bit of a nuisance of yourself. Question. Volunteer.Thu Jun 9 13:38:22 PDT 2011

paulderoos @studentdocdiary isn't it the controversial thing: acknowledge that students are avaluable to healthcare& valuable in work process?! #MededThu Jun 9 13:38:24 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @D_Rodders: Try to encourage students to do what they can, students make Drsaware of what you can do #mededThu Jun 9 13:38:27 PDT 2011

nlafferty @LizzyFerret@paulderoos apparently not many 4th years seem to havesmartphones #mededThu Jun 9 13:38:45 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @drpaulmorgan: @loriblack#meded Certainly true in my experience. Be keen,

overly so if needed. Make a bit of a nuisance of yourself. ...Thu Jun 9 13:39:03 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary @paulderoos Students are valuable because we're the next generation of doctors.We could be made more use of though. #mededThu Jun 9 13:39:24 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn #meded re BBN- I often have students sitting in clinic when I tell ppl they haveAlzheimers, get pt consent first, its been fineThu Jun 9 13:40:11 PDT 2011

nlafferty @studentdocdiary Good point - I've heard some say that senior students should beseen as members of the healthcare team #mededThu Jun 9 13:40:19 PDT 2011


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LizzyFerret On placements/clinical ssc's it's the "make yourself busy" hours after a structuredWR or Clinic that are sometimes the dealbreaker...#mededThu Jun 9 13:40:24 PDT 2011

paulderoos @studentdocdiary if students r valuable on work process.why university paysdepartments for their education? #meded -political no go area ;)Thu Jun 9 13:40:40 PDT 2011

Rohit_Silhi @amcunningham#meded Enthusiasm, a smile, and helping the juniors with themenial stuff(collating results, problem lists etc)goes a long wayThu Jun 9 13:40:42 PDT 2011

shoshanasmith @alexwintermute And don't forget the unchecked chauvinism. One orthopod's replyto my surgical aspirations was "but you're a woman." #mededThu Jun 9 13:40:42 PDT 2011

loriblack @drpaulmorgan agreed. It pays to be extremely enthusiastic. #mededThu Jun 9 13:40:54 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret ...can be gr8 if willing JrDocs happy to let you get stuck in or awful if you ask if youcan help at all and get a blank stare #mededThu Jun 9 13:41:11 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @LizzyFerret: On placements/clinical ssc's it's the "make yourself busy" hoursafter a structured WR or Clinic that are sometimes the dealbreaker...#mededThu Jun 9 13:41:13 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @LizzyFerret: ...can be gr8 if willing JrDocs happy to let you get stuck in or awfulif you ask if you can help at all and get a blank stare #mededThu Jun 9 13:41:22 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary @nlafferty I like the concept of final year med students taking on some duties of fy1doctors at some medical schools. #mededThu Jun 9 13:41:27 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret RT @nlafferty: @studentdocdiary Good point - I've heard some say that seniorstudents should be seen as members of the healthcare team #mededThu Jun 9 13:41:48 PDT 2011

paulderoos @amcunningham@lizzyferret#meded.. I was talking about breaking news.. not bad

news.. you have to start somewhere, but under supervision!Thu Jun 9 13:41:56 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn #meded i will explain in next few tweets what happens during students' time in mydept- they do one week in old age psych in 4th year- hthThu Jun 9 13:42:16 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary @paulderoos Maybe the uni has to pay the hospital because of all the tea we drinkin the drs mess? :-p #mededThu Jun 9 13:42:25 PDT 2011

amcunningham@paulderoos ok- I guess we don't talk about 'breaking news' - you mean givingresults etc? that's a really good idea #mededThu Jun 9 13:42:39 PDT 2011


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nlafferty @ShoshanaSmith I think that's a typical orthopod response, 1 of my female orthopodcolleagues who's a consultant has faced lots of it #mededThu Jun 9 13:42:47 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn #meded start of placement- i meet up with them on mon morning, tell them aboutinpatients, meet some inpatients, they then come to wd roundThu Jun 9 13:43:30 PDT 2011

paulderoos @amcunningham@LizzyFerret The step from no responsibility to managing a wardis just too big. #mededThu Jun 9 13:43:31 PDT 2011

amcunningham How many people have gotten to give results to a patient on a placement undersupervision? #meded - practice at info givingThu Jun 9 13:43:33 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @paulderoos: @amcunningham@LizzyFerret The step from no responsibility tomanaging a ward is just too big. #mededThu Jun 9 13:43:41 PDT 2011

nlafferty @amcunningham@paulderoos the university doesn't pay the hospital for teachingthe NHS pays for additional costs of teaching #mededThu Jun 9 13:44:24 PDT 2011

alexwintermute Also, whilst standards are maintained by GMC isn't there a difference in educationalattitude between schools? New ones are seen #mededThu Jun 9 13:44:27 PDT 2011

paulderoos #meded indeed @amcunningham that's what I mean. test results, treatment plan,lifestyle changes, discuss, negotiate: prepare + w supervision

Thu Jun 9 13:44:48 PDT 2011

nisciocco @amcunningham no experience on placement but as GPs receptionist over thephone in summer job #mededThu Jun 9 13:44:49 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn #meded get them to speak to some inpatients, as many as poss, some have neverspoken to psych pt before, gets them over the stigma nonsenseThu Jun 9 13:44:55 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary @amcunningham I did in final year GP, after 4 weeks I was allowed to give most

results unsupervised with the GP popping in at the end #mededThu Jun 9 13:44:56 PDT 2011

paulderoos RT @studentdocdiary: @paulderoos Maybe the uni has to pay the hospital becauseof all the tea we drink in the drs mess? :-p #mededThu Jun 9 13:45:07 PDT 2011

alexwintermute As "fluffy" and focusing on communication and old ones are seen as "scientific" andpaternalistic #mededThu Jun 9 13:45:16 PDT 2011

nlafferty @studentdocdiary Do you do FY1 shadowing at your school? #mededThu Jun 9 13:45:50 PDT 2011


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paulderoos RT @studentdocdiary: @paulderoos we r valuable because we're the next generationof doctors. We could be made more use of though. #mededThu Jun 9 13:46:06 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn #meded then sit in on clinics, they do the cognitive testing if pt happy with this, thendiscuss each case between ptsThu Jun 9 13:46:11 PDT 2011

jemmatuesday I agree senior students (all students?) should be part of the team. Give and take so ifthey help a bit they also get teaching. #mededThu Jun 9 13:46:16 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn #meded i encourage them to spend time with nurses, social workers, OTs etc tolearn about MDT working- usually do some visits with CPNsThu Jun 9 13:47:06 PDT 2011

doseofnuxvomica @ShoshanaSmith@alexwintermute female surgical consultant laughed & inspectedsize of my hands when I said I wanted to be a surgeon. #mededThu Jun 9 13:47:14 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary @nlafferty We have placements in final year and it's up to us what we make of themas long as we get sign ups. Many shadow FY1s. #mededThu Jun 9 13:47:24 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret @jemmatuesday yes it's difficult to define which students; if they in a clinical areathey should get stuck in (supervised of course) #mededThu Jun 9 13:47:38 PDT 2011

alexwintermute Also: are London med schools asking that they be your 1st UCAS choice beforeletting you shadow in their hospitals? #mededThu Jun 9 13:47:39 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn #meded I also make sure i take them on at least one home visit, great learningexperience and they learn about etiquette of home visitsThu Jun 9 13:48:08 PDT 2011

nlafferty @studentdocdiary Ok we have specific FY1 shadowing block for all students#mededThu Jun 9 13:48:12 PDT 2011

paulderoos #meded@jemmatuesday: I'd say.. if you are part of the team.. you get to learn when

you get adequate feedback/supervision on what you do.Thu Jun 9 13:48:30 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn #meded not so many jobs for students to do on psych wards eg taking blood, doingecg, but if these things need done they get to do itThu Jun 9 13:48:49 PDT 2011

amcunningham @nisciocco did you learn anything from giving these results to patients? #mededThu Jun 9 13:48:58 PDT 2011

shoshanasmith RT @doseofnuxvomica: @ShoshanaSmith@alexwintermute female surgicalconsultant laughed & inspected size of my hands when I said I wanted to be asurgeon. #mededThu Jun 9 13:49:02 PDT 2011


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LizzyFerret @MhairiHepburn coming from both camps I don't know how useful it really is to goshadowing nurses (CPNs perhaps the exception) #mededThu Jun 9 13:49:14 PDT 2011

paulderoos #meded@nlafferty@amcunningham I guess payment is different in every country..in NL university pays departments for having internsThu Jun 9 13:49:35 PDT 2011

alexwintermute @MhairiHepburn Keele uni got reprimanded by the GMC for sending students ontheir own to home visits #mededThu Jun 9 13:49:37 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary @nlafferty That sounds useful, although most of us seized the opportunity to shadowin final year some students did bugger all #mededThu Jun 9 13:49:39 PDT 2011

nlafferty Would it be helpful for previous year's students to highlight the best learningopportunities on a placement for current students? #mededThu Jun 9 13:49:59 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn #meded also some informal tutorials on mental illness, stigma, attitudes and lots ofchat about their views, plenty time to ask questions!Thu Jun 9 13:50:24 PDT 2011

nlafferty @studentdocdiary Guess that's par for the course! Their loss/#mededThu Jun 9 13:50:35 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret @studentdocdiary@nlafferty most current and recent 5th years I know have foundformal shadowing very useful at Dundee. #mededThu Jun 9 13:50:45 PDT 2011

nlafferty RT @LizzyFerret: @studentdocdiary@nlafferty most current and recent 5th years Iknow have found formal shadowing very useful at Dundee. #mededThu Jun 9 13:51:05 PDT 2011

loriblack @LizzyFerret@MhairiHepburn we do a week's nursing shadowing placement atCardiff. Really valuable and enjoyable albeit short. #mededThu Jun 9 13:51:10 PDT 2011

paulderoos @LizzyFerret@amcunningham I never let the student do a conversation ontreatment&results alone, never have them long enough to trust #mededThu Jun 9 13:51:19 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret @nlafferty yes; but often "feedback apathy" can cloud the truth! #mededThu Jun 9 13:51:25 PDT 2011

nisciocco @amcunningham sometimes awkward: all clear or doctor wants you to make appt.(pt questions!) also giving out INR+dose = be careful #mededThu Jun 9 13:51:41 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret @loriblack@mhairihepburn A WEEK?! Why?! #mededThu Jun 9 13:51:56 PDT 2011


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Bambamaki @nlafferty Depends.Best teaching ever by a fantastic consultant.this experiencemade me self organise my next module with him again #mededThu Jun 9 13:51:57 PDT 2011

paulderoos @LizzyFerret@amcunningham If you'd practice such conversations more, even"bad news" becomes more comfy #mededThu Jun 9 13:52:01 PDT 2011

Bambamaki Also a firm with fewer students and an FY1 willing to share the job with you #mededThu Jun 9 13:52:36 PDT 2011

paulderoos #meded@amcunningham Who has ever been supervised as junior doc / student tobreak bad news? or where you on your own w nurse frm beginning?Thu Jun 9 13:52:50 PDT 2011

nlafferty @LizzyFerret Pity @AlasdairForrest not on the chat he would tell us #mededThu Jun 9 13:53:01 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @paulderoos: #meded@amcunningham Who has ever been supervised asjunior doc / student to break bad news? or where you on your own w ...Thu Jun 9 13:53:17 PDT 2011

paulderoos @bambamaki Thing is about "sharing job" is knowing benefit o sharing workload=creating more learning opportunities for both= win-win #mededThu Jun 9 13:54:00 PDT 2011

amcunningham @LizzyFerret we had a week as HCA in Belfast about 20 years ago too:) #meded#showingmyageThu Jun 9 13:54:19 PDT 2011

studentdocdiary @Bambamaki Agreed! Too many med students on many firms means that you getless of a chance to get involved #mededThu Jun 9 13:54:24 PDT 2011

loriblack @LizzyFerret@mhairihepburn to give us understanding of roles in the mdt. Havealso spent time with nurses on gp and med placements #mededThu Jun 9 13:54:38 PDT 2011

nlafferty @Bambamaki Yes that's common, I see that with SSCs & 4th year projects here#mededThu Jun 9 13:54:42 PDT 2011

nlafferty @drpaulmorgan Yes that's very true. #mededThu Jun 9 13:55:43 PDT 2011

paulderoos Educational process is often weak! #meded RT @jemmatuesday: yes exactly. Toooften students r only loosely affiliated with a team..Thu Jun 9 13:55:53 PDT 2011

amcunningham useful? RT @jemmatuesday: #meded I did a 'work based assessment' on breakingbad news this year does that count? My consultant was watching.

Thu Jun 9 13:56:03 PDT 2011


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nlafferty Do many students get feedback from patients on placements #mededThu Jun 9 13:56:40 PDT 2011

amcunningham @Rohit_Silhi yes, so do our students in Cardiff... but when you first had to do in real-life, were you supervised? #mededThu Jun 9 13:56:57 PDT 2011

amcunningham @LizzyFerret we didn't really shadow... we just had to spend time on the wardhelping out.... #mededThu Jun 9 13:57:37 PDT 2011

peds_id_doc @paulderoos@amcunningham I got formal training in breaking bad news withstandardized pts #mededThu Jun 9 13:58:03 PDT 2011

paulderoos @studentdocdiary@Bambamaki it's not only numbers. it's about managing learningopportunities. Docs may need training in this #meded#zgchatThu Jun 9 13:58:18 PDT 2011

amcunningham @LizzyFerret I don't think it so much about transferrable roles as understanding howother people spend time and how a ward works #mededThu Jun 9 13:58:19 PDT 2011

nisciocco My nursing placement was good for observing, rubbish for helping out - I wasn'tallowed to do anything. #mededThu Jun 9 13:58:33 PDT 2011

peds_id_doc @paulderoos@amcunningham#meded first time had to do it for real - unexpected,2am on call, by myself...felt ready tho.Thu Jun 9 13:58:58 PDT 2011

amcunningham @peds_id_doc yes, and the first time you had to break bad new yourself... were yousupervised? I can't remember! #mededThu Jun 9 13:59:00 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret @amcunningham fair enough but a week/fortnight in that role is tooooo much! A shiftfor each would be sufficient. #mededThu Jun 9 13:59:19 PDT 2011

paulderoos @peds_id_doc@amcunningham I think most of us have that.. but.. on the ward maybe different, "standardized" may have limited value #mededThu Jun 9 13:59:31 PDT 2011

amcunningham @nisciocco was the nursing placement different to what you learnt on early clinicalattachments? #mededThu Jun 9 13:59:41 PDT 2011

peds_id_doc @paulderoos@amcunningham#meded advantage of SPs is in multiple do-overs,"muscle memory" of how to do it, what to sayThu Jun 9 14:00:25 PDT 2011

loriblack @amcunningham@LizzyFerret on nursing placement we just had to help out too.

But was enjoyable and felt of use. #mededThu Jun 9 14:00:31 PDT 2011


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alexwintermute Re: med students working as HCA's may be a stereotype but in my experience morecaring and interacting students have worked as one #mededThu Jun 9 14:00:35 PDT 2011

peds_id_doc @paulderoos@amcunningham#meded also discussion with peers, self-reflection,awareness of pitfalls...all part of the package.Thu Jun 9 14:00:53 PDT 2011

Random_Ria Joining late but just want to add that I think all learning on placement is learnt bestby following the e.g of a good junior/cons. #mededThu Jun 9 14:01:16 PDT 2011

nlafferty That's the hour up - another interesting hour of #meded chat. Many thanks everyonefor taking part, #mededThu Jun 9 14:01:24 PDT 2011

drpaulmorgan @paulderoos@jemmatuesday#meded Teams are much looser than old-fashionedfirms. Would better co-ordination work? e.g. upper GI surg. team?Thu Jun 9 14:01:29 PDT 2011

peds_id_doc @paulderoos@amcunningham#meded I found SP training of enormous value inreal life. I guess it depends on the program...Thu Jun 9 14:01:30 PDT 2011

nisciocco @amcunningham yes. Only with nurses/hca - learnt how ward worked. They kepttrying to push me onto wards rounds with drs tho #mededThu Jun 9 14:01:50 PDT 2011

amcunningham @peds_id_doc I think the socio-cultural bits arnd communication R probly wht we Rnot so gd at 'teaching' -for another week:) #mededThu Jun 9 14:02:18 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret @alexwintermute I think working as a phleb is much more useful for a medicalstudent. #mededThu Jun 9 14:02:35 PDT 2011

nlafferty We'll post the transcript up within next day. As conversation still going we'll post thechat upto about 9.30 or till it fizzles out #mededThu Jun 9 14:02:48 PDT 2011

amcunningham @nisciocco yes, I remember that:) and suggesting you go along to theatre etc:)#mededThu Jun 9 14:02:51 PDT 2011

paulderoos #meded@peds_id_doc I felt ready too for breaking the bad news, but.. who says Icouldn't have done better.. I ask interns 4 feedback now.Thu Jun 9 14:03:05 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn @LizzyFerret#meded yes, a week. I mean on old age psych placement, not doingnursing stuff.Thu Jun 9 14:03:23 PDT 2011

nlafferty Any suggestions for next week's chat please tweet me or @amcunningham or DM usor post suggestions here http://bit.ly/jUlG0v#meded chatThu Jun 9 14:03:43 PDT 2011


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amreeeves @Random_Ria FY1 I've been with over the last few days has told me she's teachingme to survive as an FY1, good experience #mededThu Jun 9 14:04:14 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @drpaulmorgan: @paulderoos@jemmatuesday#meded Teams are much looserthan old-fashioned firms. Would better co-ordination work? e.g. ...Thu Jun 9 14:04:16 PDT 2011

nlafferty Sounds like a great idea! RT @cringlem: @nlafferty getting previous Yr F doctors tohighlight opportunities would also be helpful #mededThu Jun 9 14:04:21 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @amreeeves: @Random_Ria FY1 I've been with over the last few days has toldme she's teaching me to survive as an FY1, good experience #mededThu Jun 9 14:04:37 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret @MhairiHepburn Ahh :) In that case a week ain't long enough! I think @loriblackmeant a week of nursing stuff tho. #crossedwires#mededThu Jun 9 14:04:46 PDT 2011

Bambamaki why work as an HCA or phleb?250k of education and is not enough to teach medicalstudents? #mededThu Jun 9 14:05:14 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn @alexwintermute#meded I don't send them on their own though! They shadow me...Thu Jun 9 14:05:17 PDT 2011

nlafferty @LizzyFerret@MhairiHepburn We've started a discussion about this locally andlooking forward to doing some new things #mededThu Jun 9 14:05:23 PDT 2011

Random_Ria RT @amreeeves: @Random_Ria FY1 I've been with over the last few days has toldme she's teaching me to survive as an FY1, good experience #mededThu Jun 9 14:05:44 PDT 2011

paulderoos @drpaulmorgan@jemmatuesday for me.. next to MD I'm a soft skills trainer.. I usecoaching & training techniques on motivation #mededThu Jun 9 14:06:07 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn @LizzyFerret#meded heh heh #crossedwires indeed! They do a half day with theCPN

Thu Jun 9 14:06:22 PDT 2011

amcunningham @nlafferty I'm wondering if we should think about comm skills teaching for nextweek? @peds_id_doc#mededThu Jun 9 14:06:30 PDT 2011

doseofnuxvomica @ShoshanaSmith@lizzyferret well said. its funny so many ppl gap year to do goodstuff, yet still don't give a shit about patients. #mededThu Jun 9 14:06:59 PDT 2011

paulderoos @drpaulmorgan@jemmatuesday and engagement, to spark students interest to

contribute, then I reward contributions w exciting tasks #mededThu Jun 9 14:07:02 PDT 2011


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nlafferty Will be interesting! RT @amcunningham: @nlafferty Wondering if should think aboutcomm skills teaching for next week? @peds_id_doc#mededThu Jun 9 14:07:21 PDT 2011

Bambamaki @amcunningham@nlafferty nooo no more com skills!!i had so much of it at my medschool..i think they wanted everyone to become a GP:P #mededThu Jun 9 14:07:52 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @doseofnuxvomica: @ShoshanaSmith@lizzyferret well said. its funny so manyppl gap year to do good stuff, yet still don't give a shit about patients. #mededThu Jun 9 14:07:52 PDT 2011

nlafferty RT @Bambamaki: @amcunningham@nlafferty nooo no more com skills!!i had somuch of it at my med school..i think they wanted everyone to become a GP:P#mededThu Jun 9 14:08:11 PDT 2011

Random_Ria @amreeeves Nice. I've been following a registrar in the AMU who has been brilliant.Nothing better than someone willing to teach! #mededThu Jun 9 14:08:13 PDT 2011

cringlem RT @amcunningham: I know tech is not always answer... but I had an idea abouthow we might try and help students learn on placement http://is.gd/UT7b50#mededThu Jun 9 14:08:23 PDT 2011

paulderoos @peds_id_doc@amcunningham for me, I had best communication trainings whilemanaging a team in student keadership roles, did it 4 me #mededThu Jun 9 14:08:29 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn #meded yeah comm skills teaching!! Any GPs here? Can we have a fight about

whether it should be done by GPs or psychs? :)))))Thu Jun 9 14:08:30 PDT 2011

amcunningham @Bambamaki thia is what we can talk about... does it work? how to make better?what stops people communicating well? #mededThu Jun 9 14:08:33 PDT 2011

alexwintermute @Bambamaki you can't teach people to care. It's the difference between learningand experience. #mededThu Jun 9 14:08:40 PDT 2011

amcunningham@Bambamaki LOL! well- you suggest another topic- will be very welcome:) #mededThu Jun 9 14:09:12 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @ffolliet: @nlafferty no problem #meded if anyone wants to join me for anattachment in Paediatric Surgery, get in touch!!Thu Jun 9 14:09:20 PDT 2011

paulderoos @drpaulmorgan@jemmatuesday so.. co-ordination is a right word, as I use my skillslike a toolbox to get my work co-ordinated : -) #mededThu Jun 9 14:09:38 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret @doseofnuxvomica@alexwintermute that's what I mean; If youre going to workwhist a medstudent then Phleb/Ward Clerk far more useful! #mededThu Jun 9 14:09:56 PDT 2011


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loriblack @amcunningham@nisciocco mine never suggested I followed doctors. Wanted meto do everything possible-worked me v hard :) #mededThu Jun 9 14:10:05 PDT 2011

nlafferty @ffolliet where are you based? #mededThu Jun 9 14:10:10 PDT 2011

amreeeves @Random_Ria On CCU at the mo - FY1, SHO & SpR are all great, and the otherstudents don't turn up. Have them all to myself. Amazing. #mededThu Jun 9 14:10:35 PDT 2011

drpaulmorgan @paulderoos@jemmatuesday#meded Keen students will reap rewards in so manyways. Those not keen will miss out on so much.Thu Jun 9 14:10:47 PDT 2011

alexwintermute @MhairiHepburn yeah I thought you did. But it proves the need for schools toimplement policies well #mededThu Jun 9 14:10:57 PDT 2011

nlafferty RT @drpaulmorgan: @paulderoos@jemmatuesday#meded Keen students will reaprewards in so many ways. Those not keen will miss out on so much.Thu Jun 9 14:11:03 PDT 2011

amcunningham @nisciocco great- that's another vote for comm skills (iinc deaf awareness) as topicfor next week's #meded chat:)Thu Jun 9 14:11:03 PDT 2011

paulderoos @mhairihepburn or communication class w business skills trainers? ;-) #mededThu Jun 9 14:11:15 PDT 2011

peds_id_doc @amcunningham@nlafferty#meded one of my passions! Not sure the time wouldwork tho (4pm here...with Thursday clinic usually :-/ )Thu Jun 9 14:11:50 PDT 2011

nlafferty Great to see so many students again on the #meded chat this week :) Thanks for allyour contributions to the discussion!Thu Jun 9 14:11:53 PDT 2011

amcunningham @MhairiHepburn look- LOL- I can see we are going to have great fun on this nextweek! #commskills#meded :)Thu Jun 9 14:12:06 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret @amcunningham@ffolliet@nlafferty the power of twitter eh :) #meded#twitterisamazingThu Jun 9 14:12:10 PDT 2011

drpaulmorgan @amreeeves@Random_Ria#meded That's the reward for being keen. You reapwhat you sew.Thu Jun 9 14:12:33 PDT 2011

paulderoos @drpaulmorgan#meded, we must show them the road though.. some just don't seeit and get keen when they see it.. that's our task.Thu Jun 9 14:12:34 PDT 2011


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loriblack #meded also voting for comm skills teaching.Thu Jun 9 14:12:46 PDT 2011

Bambamaki @alexwintermute I think empathy and caring can be taught:) I was asked this at mymed school interview..and i argued that you can't #mededThu Jun 9 14:12:55 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @ffolliet: @LizzyFerret i "met"a med student on twitter last year. he came forstudent attachment 3 months later #meded#twitterisamazingThu Jun 9 14:13:27 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret @peds_id_doc@amcunningham@nlafferty#commskills is a Dundee speciality; weare programmed to love it by the end :) #mededThu Jun 9 14:13:29 PDT 2011

Bambamaki @alexwintermute 5 years on..I am on the opposite side..you can teach someone tocare #mededThu Jun 9 14:13:39 PDT 2011

nlafferty @peds_id_doc Ah ok, didn't realise you are in the US ? (apologies if you're inCanada) #mededThu Jun 9 14:13:43 PDT 2011

drpaulmorgan @paulderoos@jemmatuesday#meded As PRHO I worked for one consultant withfixed jun'r. team. Doesn't happen now, so consultant teams needed.Thu Jun 9 14:14:22 PDT 2011

amcunningham @peds_id_doc ohh- that's a pity... but much beyond 9 is too late for us... great thatyou could join tonight:) #mededThu Jun 9 14:14:44 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret @amcunningham@ffolliet awesome! :D these #meded chats and #twitjc are realproof that #twitterisamazing indeed :)Thu Jun 9 14:14:54 PDT 2011

paulderoos @amcunningham@ffolliet@LizzyFerret -- I met a patient on twitter.. she got me myresidency interview in Sweden.. got the job! #mededThu Jun 9 14:14:59 PDT 2011

amreeeves @drpaulmorgan@random_ria saw an MI being stented, helped out w echo & sawan adenosine challenge t'day. Couldn't stand missing it #mededThu Jun 9 14:15:08 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @amreeeves: @Random_Ria On CCU at the mo - FY1, SHO & SpR are allgreat, and the other students don't turn up. Have them all to myself. Amazing.#mededThu Jun 9 14:15:33 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @amreeeves: @drpaulmorgan@random_ria saw an MI being stented, helpedout w echo & saw an adenosine challenge t'day. Couldn't stand missing it #mededThu Jun 9 14:15:37 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret @paulderoos@amcunningham@ffolliet haha, think meeting patients is a whoooleother issue :P #mededThu Jun 9 14:15:51 PDT 2011


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LizzyFerret Thanks again to @nlafferty and @amcunningham for hosting tonight's #meded chat.Informative and enjoyable as always :)Thu Jun 9 14:16:50 PDT 2011

amcunningham BIg thanks to everyone who joined in with #meded chat this evening- another greatdiscussion- you're brilliant!Thu Jun 9 14:16:59 PDT 2011

paulderoos @lizzyferret@amcunningham@ffolliet true.. but also interesting w regards to#meded.. a patient is different than "my patient" #mededThu Jun 9 14:17:27 PDT 2011

nlafferty Absolutely!RT @amcunningham: BIg thanks to everyone who joined in with #mededchat this evening- another great discussion- you're brilliant!Thu Jun 9 14:17:40 PDT 2011

BeanBlogger @Bambamaki#meded You see diff things, diff things are expected of you. As avolunteer I was ignored but saw the pts viewpoint much betterThu Jun 9 14:17:51 PDT 2011

basmahassan #meded in my hospital we only spend 2 months at a time on each team (other 2months are on call)- I think bad for students..Thu Jun 9 14:18:05 PDT 2011

drpaulmorgan @paulderoos#meded Very true, but it is also up to med school to provide us with themap so that we're current in what we teach.Thu Jun 9 14:18:13 PDT 2011

doseofnuxvomica @amcunningham no YOU're brillant! ;) #mededThu Jun 9 14:18:48 PDT 2011

basmahassan #meded by the time we are comfortable in job to have time for students it is time tomove on! Ps sorry I'm late just saw discussion- vg!Thu Jun 9 14:19:40 PDT 2011

amcunningham @drpaulmorgan well, lets hope that Cardiff can get a lot better and making all of thatclearer:) #mededThu Jun 9 14:20:03 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret RT @drpaulmorgan: @paulderoos#meded Very true, but it is also up to med schoolto provide us with the map so that we're current in what we teach.Thu Jun 9 14:20:11 PDT 2011

drpaulmorgan @Bambamaki@alexwintermute#meded Displaying empathy is not the same asreally having empathy. Former can be taught, latter is inate.Thu Jun 9 14:20:21 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret @doseofnuxvomica: @amcunningham no YOU're brillant! ;) #meded What she saidI said :)Thu Jun 9 14:20:30 PDT 2011

amcunningham @basmahassan lovely of you to join- we'll archive tweets for a bit more - thanks:)#mededThu Jun 9 14:20:37 PDT 2011


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drpaulmorgan @LizzyFerret@peds_id_doc@amcunningham@nlafferty#meded Big Brother iswatching you!Thu Jun 9 14:21:00 PDT 2011

amreeeves RT @doseofnuxvomica: @amcunningham no YOU're brillant! ;) #mededThu Jun 9 14:21:04 PDT 2011

nlafferty @basmahassan We're just wrapping up but thanks for joining us. We're chattingabout #meded again at 9pm next Thursday if you can join usThu Jun 9 14:21:10 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @basmahassan: #meded in my hospital we only spend 2 months at a time oneach team (other 2 months are on call)- I think bad for stude ...Thu Jun 9 14:21:38 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @basmahassan: #meded by the time we are comfortable in job to have time forstudents it is time to move on! Ps sorry I'm late just saw discussion- vg!Thu Jun 9 14:21:41 PDT 2011

amcunningham @basmahassan good points.. it's hard to support others with learning if you feel youare only getting to grips with things yourself #mededThu Jun 9 14:22:43 PDT 2011

drpaulmorgan @amreeeves@random_ria#meded Unbeatable experience.Thu Jun 9 14:23:41 PDT 2011

ambulancemandan #meded shame I've just missed this! Have some views on teaching practice andplacement from the Paramedic side (if it counts...)Thu Jun 9 14:23:42 PDT 2011

paulderoos @drpaulmorgan I talk about educational process.. the procedural support systemneeds to improve much everywhere in academia #mededThu Jun 9 14:24:19 PDT 2011

KatieHutch91 @Bambamaki@alexwintermute Don't know if empathy & caring can be taught butyou can teach how to come across to a patient that you do #mededThu Jun 9 14:24:24 PDT 2011

amcunningham @ambulancemandan please share! would be very helpful:) #mededThu Jun 9 14:24:27 PDT 2011

alexwintermute So question for #meded how do we route out sexism in medics and surgeons? Cc:@doseofnuxvomica@ShoshanaSmith@BeccaSarahSThu Jun 9 14:24:43 PDT 2011

paulderoos @drpaulmorgan you should expect this kind of support from med school indeed#mededThu Jun 9 14:24:45 PDT 2011

nlafferty @ambulancemandan That's a pity we'll be posting the transcript and would welcome

comments #mededThu Jun 9 14:24:50 PDT 2011


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drpaulmorgan @amcunningham#meded You'll have to nag my namesake!!Thu Jun 9 14:25:07 PDT 2011

amcunningham @AliHandscomb we have the #meded chat from 9-10 UK time , and then there is aUS chat at about 2am our timeThu Jun 9 14:25:11 PDT 2011

LizzyFerret @ambulancemandan go for it; it's really interesting the differences in AHP vs Medtraining, I have lots of pointers from Nursing! #mededThu Jun 9 14:25:19 PDT 2011

nlafferty @ambulancemandan Do you have students spend time with you, we have a newclinical SSC where students join paramedic team #mededThu Jun 9 14:25:46 PDT 2011

amcunningham @neil_howie_uk if you can you should join #meded chat maybe next Thursday at9pm... forgot to say this week as really busy:(Thu Jun 9 14:27:02 PDT 2011

ambulancemandan #meded ps Re breaking bad news. We were not 'taught' this, bar maybe adiscussion post training, but still expected to do it? Fair?Thu Jun 9 14:27:05 PDT 2011

SmilingPamela #meded hubby has set up a system of teaching in A&E med student assesses pt,presents findings, orders tests, follows pt through the systemThu Jun 9 14:28:09 PDT 2011

SportsDoc_Chris @nlafferty Hi Natalie. Just found out about u #meded chat. Hope to join in next wk.I'm doing an MA in Tech & Educ. in Clin. Practice at IoEThu Jun 9 14:28:36 PDT 2011

amcunningham @ambulancemandan no- poor. we're going to talk about comm skills next week..would be great to get interprofessional insights #mededThu Jun 9 14:29:09 PDT 2011

KatieHutch91 I've found there are lots of opportunities to get involved at med school, if you're notkeen then you will miss out! #mededThu Jun 9 14:29:33 PDT 2011

amcunningham "A Reflection on the Benefit of Employing Physician Assistants in #NHS Hospitals"http://is.gd/5h3Toa from @neil_howie_uk#meded

Thu Jun 9 14:30:13 PDT 2011

nlafferty @SportsDoc_Chris Hi Chris - that's great, look forward to seeing you on the #mededchat next weekThu Jun 9 14:30:26 PDT 2011

amcunningham RT @KatieHutch91: @Bambamaki@alexwintermute Don't know if empathy & caringcan be taught but you can teach how to come across to a patient that you do#mededThu Jun 9 14:30:52 PDT 2011

KatieHutch91 Also re breaking bad news, I really think it depends on where you study. At Bham weget taught quite a lot in first year #mededThu Jun 9 14:31:31 PDT 2011


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neil_howie_uk @amcunningham That sounds great I will be online for #meded next week. I was outtonight anyway. looking forward to it.Thu Jun 9 14:32:43 PDT 2011

amcunningham @KatieHutch91 we're going to talk a lot more about this next week I hope but I think#commskills should be at start of course:) #mededThu Jun 9 14:32:47 PDT 2011

drpaulmorgan @jemmatuesday@paulderoos#meded Ward-based medicine is a shambles. Wouldrather see, e.g. a hepatology team, vascular surgical team etc.Thu Jun 9 14:33:23 PDT 2011

nlafferty @Neil_Mehta No worries - Seems placements/attachments not a common term in theUS for clinical blocks/rotations #meded@amcunninghamThu Jun 9 14:34:01 PDT 2011

Neil_Mehta @nlafferty@amcunningham how about portfolios in #Meded for next chat?Thu Jun 9 14:34:35 PDT 2011

drpaulmorgan #meded Goodnight to those following this hashtag!Thu Jun 9 14:35:16 PDT 2011

nlafferty RT @KatieHutch91: I've found there are lots of opportunities to get involved at medschool, if you're not keen then you will miss out! #mededThu Jun 9 14:35:21 PDT 2011

MhairiHepburn #meded thanks for another great chat! Time for a cup of tea now...Thu Jun 9 14:37:07 PDT 2011

alexwintermute RT @drpaulmorgan: @Bambamaki@alexwintermute#meded Displaying empathy isnot the same as really having empathy. Former can be taught, l ...Thu Jun 9 14:37:42 PDT 2011

ambulancemandan @amcunningham#meded I shall try to be there, thanks. Nice to discuss these thingswith others o/s Paramedicine!Thu Jun 9 14:38:31 PDT 2011

paulderoos @drpaulmorgan@jemmatuesday in my humble opinion.it's all about how oneorganises it& what u think people should be able to learn/do #meded

Thu Jun 9 14:39:16 PDT 2011

amcunningham @Neil_Mehta we were thinking of communication skills but please add to the list:)want to keep up enthusiasm! http://is.gd/xn3EWG#mededThu Jun 9 14:39:41 PDT 2011

nlafferty @Neil_Mehta@amcunninham Think we're going with communication skills for nextweek 's #meded chat but we should add Portfolios to the list,Thu Jun 9 14:39:49 PDT 2011

paulderoos @health_oracle I agree that communication simulations in med school can be very

useful Supervised practice on ward is surely as well #mededThu Jun 9 14:40:22 PDT 2011


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paulderoos #meded Thank you for tonights' chat and for moderating/reminding@amcunningham!Thu Jun 9 14:41:06 PDT 2011

KatieHutch91 @amcunningham At Bham we get introduced to quite a lot in Yr 1 but I think roleplays rather than lectures would be more useful #mededThu Jun 9 14:41:14 PDT 2011

paulderoos @jemmatuesday@drpaulmorgan -quote: if a car is broke you bring it away to fix it. ifur hospital is broke you work in it. deal w it! #mededThu Jun 9 14:45:31 PDT 2011

astupple A fantastic resource for physical exam (IMHO) from @Neil_Mehta :http://bit.ly/leCeFd [If this was an iPhone app....] #mededThu Jun 9 14:47:14 PDT 2011

KentBottles RT @astupple: A fantastic resource for physical exam (IMHO) from @Neil_Mehta :http://bit.ly/leCeFd [If this was an iPhone app....] #mededThu Jun 9 14:47:34 PDT 2011

wessendenwoolly @amcunningham Hi. I'm Sarah, a GP & clinical lecturer in Leeds #mededThu Jun 9 14:48:56 PDT 2011

amcunningham @wessendenwoolly hello Sarah! yuo're just like me! a wee bit late for #meded chatbut we hope we can hhelp you catch up with summary:)Thu Jun 9 14:50:03 PDT 2011

drpaulmorgan @paulderoos@jemmatuesday#meded Plenty of people working to fix brokensystems. In our ICU, consultants function as team, outside not clearThu Jun 9 14:51:15 PDT 2011

EuroDocstar RT @drpaulmorgan: @jemmatuesday@paulderoos#meded Ward-based medicineis a shambles. Would rather see, e.g. a hepatology team, vascular ...Thu Jun 9 14:53:32 PDT 2011

EuroDocstar RT @amreeeves: @Random_Ria On CCU at the mo - FY1, SHO & SpR are allgreat, and the other students don't turn up. Have them all to myself. Amazing.#mededThu Jun 9 14:56:33 PDT 2011

EuroDocstar RT @amreeeves: @drpaulmorgan@random_ria saw an MI being stented, helped

out w echo & saw an adenosine challenge t'day. Couldn't stand missing it #mededThu Jun 9 14:56:36 PDT 2011

amcunningham @LizzyFerret@nlafferty I'm not sure about other side of atlantic but we'redeveloping healthy communities here with #twitjc and #mededThu Jun 9 14:57:31 PDT 2011

EuroDocstar RT @paulderoos: @amcunningham@LizzyFerret The step from no responsibility tomanaging a ward is just too big. #mededThu Jun 9 14:57:59 PDT 2011

nlafferty @amcunningham@LizzyFerret I agree, good stuff developing here with #twitjc and#meded chatThu Jun 9 14:58:35 PDT 2011


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EuroDocstar RT @studentdocdiary: @amcunningham@paulderoos I think students should beallowed to be present when breaking bad news, I was nearly always told to leave#mededThu Jun 9 14:59:03 PDT 2011

EuroDocstar RT @amcunningham: @jemmatuesday yes, students sometimes say they were'lucky' on placement but they tend to make their own luck #mededThu Jun 9 15:01:18 PDT 2011

#Meded Twitter Chat 9 June 2011 UK/EU

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Transcript of #Meded Twitter Chat 9 June 2011 UK/EU