MastersofScaleGritHappenswithCrisisTextLine'sNancyLublin

LUBLIN:IwenttoseeIbsen’s,ADoll'sHouse,atthetheater.10throwcentersittingto

myleft.DonaldTrump.SittingtohisleftsomeskinnyblondIdidn'trecognize.Andhe's

eatingMilkduds,likeshovingtheminhismouth.FistfulatatimeandIlookathimand

I'mlike,doyouneedtoownthecompanyorarethoseavailableinthelobby,andhe

saysallHaw-Hawgrabstheboxfromtheskinnywomanhimandhandsthemtome

becauseIdon'tthinkshe'sanythingbuttofuandwater.AndandsoIeattheMilkDuds

andwestrikeupaconversationandhesayssowhatdoyoudo.

REID: That’s Nancy Lublin. Andwhat does she do? She builds non-profits theway Donald

Trumpbuildsskyscrapers.Herorganizationsarehuge,tremendous,big-leaguestuff.Believe

me.

WhenNancyaccidentallysatnexttoTrumpinthattheater,shehadjustlaunchedherfirst

non-profit,DressforSuccess.Theorganizationstartedasaclothingdrivetohelpwomenon

welfaredressforjobinterviews.Shecollectedpantsuits,pearls,pumps.Younameit,Nancy

haditpilingupinhertinyapartment.ShefiguredTrumpmighthaveasparestorageroom

somewhereinhisrealestateempire.Soshestartedpitching.

LUBLIN:ItalkaboutDressforSuccessandhowamazingitis.Andhesays,“Ohreally?Do

youenjoyit?AndIwaslike,“Yesit'sprettyamazinghelpingwomenlikemovefrom

welfaretowork.”Andhesays,“Reallyit'snotboring?”AndI'mlike,“Noit'snotboring.”

SoIsaidtohim,“Sowhatdoyoudo?”Andhesays,“Nooneeveraskedmethat

before.”AndIsaid,“Well,whatdoyoudo?Howwouldyoudescribeit?”Andhesaid,“I

guessI'mabuilder.Ibuildthings.”AndIsaid,“Oh,doyoulikeit?”ImeanlikeIgaveit

rightbacktohim.

REID:They’reofftoarockystart.Nomatter.Nancykeepspushing.

LUBLIN:Icallafriendandsayyougottogivemethenameofhispersonalassistant.She

saysit'sNormaFoerdererorwhowasfamouslyhisassistantfordecades.Igoto

Blockbuster—againthisisalongtimeago—And[buy?]likeagiantboxofMilkDuds

andIgetinacabandIsay,takemetoTrumpTower

LUBLIN:NowI'monthe26floorandIlookaroundit'sallgoldandglassandmirrors.

ThroughthegoldandglassandmirrorsIseetheskinnyblondfromthenightbeforethe

theaterandIwavedmyarms.Shecomesover.She'slike,thewomanfromthetheater.

Whatareyoudoinghere?AndIsaidlookIwillgivehimaboxofMilkDudsaweekfor

therestofhislifeifyoucanjustfindmelike500squarefeetofspacebecause

everything'sinmyapartment.Shesayshe'sbroke.Andlookaround.I'mlikeIseetimes

areroughandIshakeherhandIsay,OKwellthankyousomuch.

REID:YouhavetolovethisaboutNancy:Shedoesn’tgiveupeasily.

LUBLIN:NowagainI'manentrepreneur.Iambittenbythatbug.Idon'tgiveupthere.

SoI'mdoinglikeFoxbreakfastTVthenextweekandIlookoverandthewomansitting

nexttomeandIrecognizeherandIsay“AreyouLizSmith,thegossipcolumnist?”She

says,“Iam.”IsayyouknowIhaveastoryyoumightbeainterestedinandItoldthe

story.AndthatSundayshewritesitupinTheNewYorkPostanditrunsinhercolumn

nationallyandshetellsitonTV.AndsoMondaymorningItakethatNewYorkPostandI

gotoTrumpTowerandIsaytosecuritypleasetellNormaFoerdererthatNancyLublinis

downstairs.AndIgoupandNormaFoerderersaysit’sgoodtoseeyou.Wesawithe

saw.Hethinksit'sveryfunnybutwehavenothingforyou.Sotheendingofthestoryis

I'vegotthemostbeautifulrejectionletterI'veeverseeninmyentirefreakinlife.Like

onTrumpTowergoldembossedletterhead.AsI'vesaidbeforetoyouIcouldscrapeoff

thatlogoandmakefillingsforeveryoneIknow.Imeanthatthelogoislikeaquarterof

aninchoffthepage.Beautiful,tellingmethathehadnomoneyandsorry.Andsorry,

bestofluck.IwasworkingonsomethingthatP.S.isnowin120citiesaroundtheworld

solikeitwouldhavebeenasafebettogivemefivehundredbucks.Instead,I'vegota

storythatItelleverywhere.

REID:Thestoryisn’tsimplythatyoucan’ttake“no”forananswer.Anyonecandothat.And

frankly,ifyougettoopushy,you’remorelikelytogetarestrainingorderthananinvestor.

TherealstoryisaboutthepowerofpersistenceANDagoodPlanB.Orrather,PlansB.Just

considerNancy’smulti-channeledcharmoffensive.Shedeploysjokes,multipleboxesofMilk

Duds,letters,surprisevisitsandaNewYorkgossipcolumnist.Thisiswhatwecallgrit.And

GRITiseveryentrepreneur’strumpcard.

[ThemeMusic]

REID:I’mReidHoffman,co-founderofLinkedIn,invstoratGreylockandyourhost.Ibelieve

successfulentrepreneursneedideas,money,goodtimingandaheftydoseofluck.Butnone

ofthosematterifyoudon’thaveGRIT.

Somepeoplemistakegritforsheerpersistence.Chargingupthesamehill,againandagain.

Butthat’snotquitewhatImeanbytheword“grit.”Thesortofgrityouneedtoscalea

businessislessreliantonbruteforce.It’sactuallyonepartdetermination,onepartingenuity,

andonepartlaziness.Yes,laziness.

YANG:I'mverylazy.IthinkmybiggestfaultgrowingupwasthatIwasneververy

complete.Iwasneververythorough.

REID:That’sJerryYang,co-founderofYahoo!Andafiercelydeterminedentrepreneur.Andit

turnsoutwehadlazinessincommon.Here’swhatItoldhim.

REID:ItendIthinkpersonallythatlazinessisoneofthefoundationsofintelligence

becauseiflookingforthoseshortcutssoIactuallythinkthatit'sactuallyinfacta

positiveattributeinthiscase.

YANG:WellThat'sniceofyoutosaybutReidbutwhenIwasyoungIwas,mynickname

inmyfamilywasMr.Lazy.Myuncles,mymomeverybodycalledmeMr.Lazy,Iwasso

lazy.Imust’vebeenveryintelligent.

REID:Wellthisissomethingwediscoveredthatweshare.BecausewhenmydadandI

wereonhissabbaticalinKenya,thedrivercalledmeLazyBones.Sowehaveyouknow

wehaveacertainparallelhistory.

YANG:IknewIlikedyouforareason.

REID:Lazybonesoftheworld,unite.Inanycase,Ithinkthisconversationgetsuscloserto

thetruenatureofentrepreneurialgrit.Youshouldbebullheadedinyourpursuitofabig

idea,butalwaysonthelookoutforshortcuts.

Youwanttoconserveyourenergy.Youwanttominimizefrictionandfindthemosteffective,

mostefficientwayforward.Youmightactuallyhavemoregritifyoutreatyourenergyasa

preciouscommodity.Soforgetthetiredclicheofrunningamarathon.Youwanttobemore

likeIndianaJones,somersaultingunderblades,racingafewstepsaheadofarollingboulder

andswingingyourwhipuntilyoureachyourholygrail.

Ifyouaskme,NancyLublinistheentrepreneurialequivalentofIndianaJones.Andwe’ll

comebacktoherstoryinaminute.Butfirst,awordfromoursponsor,ZipRecruiter.

[note:teamstilldecidingbetweentheseapproaches]

Ifyouaskme,NancyLublinistheentrepreneurialequivalentofIndianaJones.Iwantedto

talktoherforthisepisodebecausesheisa10outof10whenitcomestogrit.Andshealso

doesherworkinthenot-for-profitsector,whichhasevenmorelandminesthanthe

commercialworld.Capitalishardertocomeby,talentishardertorecruit,andouroverall

society—atleasthereintheU.S.—broadlyrewardscommercialpeoplemorethanthey

rewardnon-profitpeople.

We’llcomebacktoNancy’sstoryinaminute.Butfirst,awordfromoursponsor,

ZipRecruiter.

REID:Sobeforewegettoourguests—theentrepreneurswhoputthe“grr”inthewordgrit

—I’dliketoopen,abituncharacteristically,withaquotefromtheBible.

“Theraceisnottotheswift,northebattletothestrong,orbreadtothewise,orriches

tothediscerning,orfavortotheskillful;buttimeandchancehappentothemall.”

Timeandchancehappentousall—exceptNancyLublin.Timeandchancedon’thappento

Nancy.Grithappens.Andoncethisqualitykicksin,she’sunstoppable.

Nancyhasscaledthreehugelysuccessfulnot-for-profitorganizationsthatchampionthe

world’smostneedy.

REID:I’vebetonNancybefore—andsohavealotofinvestors.Why?Partlybecauseshehas

thesamebiasforactionthatI’veseeninallgreatscaleentrepreneurs.Getherthinkingabout

somesocialproblem,andshegetsrestless.Shecan’ttolerateit.Take,forinstance,hernot-

for-profit,DressforSuccess.You’llrecall,shewantedtohelpwomenonwelfareenterthe

workforceinstyle.Entertainingly,Nancynevercaredmuchforfashion.Ifanything,shefinds

itludicrous.

LUBLIN:Myfathergrowingupwasalawyerandheusedtotellmethatwhenhewas

hiringsecretarieshe'dlookoutthewindowandwatchthemgofromthecartothe

buildingandthenhe'dknowbeforetheyreachedthebuildingwhetherornothe'dhire

them.SoIthoughtwastheworstthingIhadeverheard.Iwaslikethat'syoujust

describeddiscriminationtome.That'shorrible.Andhesaidandit'sthetruthsogo

combyourhair.AndsoImeanIjustknewthattheworldworksthiswaywe

discriminatebasedonafirstlookoneverybody.Andsothat'swhereDressforSuccess

camefrom.

REID:SoNancyhasjustidentifiedahugeproblem.Employersjudgejobapplicants—

especiallywomen—basedontheirphysicalappearance.Shemighthavevaliantlystruggled

forfairerhiringpractices.Butthat’sastruggleforactivists—thesortofpeoplewhocan

tolerateanincrementalbattlewithhistoryandhumannature.

ButNancywantsasolutionnow.Shecan’tchangethewaybossesthinkovernight.Butshe

canleveltheplayingfieldbygivingwomenaccesstoprofessionalclothing.Shehasanidea.

Shehas$5000inseedmoneyfromhergrandfather’sestate.Andshe’sabouttogetherfirst

unlikelycollaborators.

LUBLIN:AndsoIwasinlawschoolIwenttomylawprofessorandsaidheyIhavethis

ideawhatdoyouthink.AndhesentmetoSisterMaryNurniinSpanishHarlem.And

thenshebroughtintwoothers.WhenIwenttomeetthemforthefirsttimeIfully

expectedthemtomeetmeinlikeinhabitwithlockedarmssingingliketheSoundof

Music...andinsteadthey'rereallycool.They'relikekindoflikesocialworkers.They’re

reallycoolwomen.ThedrawbackwasItookfinancialadvicefromthem.Theytoldmeto

putthe$5000intoasixmonthCDinthebank,whichmeantwestartwithnomoney.So

likedon'ttakefinancialadvicefrompeoplewhotakeanoathofpovertyislikethe

lessonthere.13:53

00:14:53WheneverIhavedoneastartup,thefirstthingIactuallydoiscallmyfamily

andfriends.Becauseyouthink“Theyloveme,andIlovethem.”Thatdoesn'tmean

they'regoingtoloveyouridea.

AndthethingaboutthenunsisIreallyhadnorelationtothembefore.Buttheyknew

fucktonsaboutmovingpeoplefromwelfaretowork.Theyknewexactlywhatwasgoing

oninNewYorkCityandhowtomakethishappenandhowtogetitstarted.Theywere

theywereactuallytheexactrightpeopletostartthiswith.

REID:SohowdidNancyandthreenunsmanagetoscalethisideaworldwide?Theydidn’t

havemuchmoney.Theydidn’thaveconnectionstowealthyphilanthropists.Andthey

certainlydidn’thavestaff.Theironlyassetwastheirknowledgeofthewelfaresystem.That

systemincludedavastnetworkofgovernmentandprivateagenciesdedicatedtohelping

women.Nancysimplybuiltanorganizationthatcouldtapintothistalentnetworkforfree.

LUBLIN:Thechallengeoriginallywaswehavethesepeoplewhoaremovingfrom

welfaretowork.Howdoyougetthemintothesystemwithoutpassingajudgmenton

individuals.Andthenhowdowesolveourlaborproblemintheshop?Sowecombined

that.Andwhatwedidwaswescreenedagencies.Wewouldapprovedomesticviolence

shelters.Wewouldapprovejobtrainingprograms.Wewouldapprovehomeless

shelters.Andthentheycouldsendwhoevertheywantedtotheshop.Asabarterwe

requiredthemtosendsomeonetostafftheshoponedayamonth.Sowegotfreelabor

andhighqualityreferralsanddidn'teverhavetopassanyjudgmentontheindividualso

everybodywhocametouswasworthdressingbecauseoneofouremployees

essentiallyhadreferredthem....Andbythewaythismodelofstaffingtheshopand

referringstaystodayinover100locationsaroundtheworld.

REID:NoticewhatNancydidnotdo—shedidnottrytobuildanentiresystemfromscratch

byherself,whichisatrapmanyentrepreneursfallinto.Shelookedaroundherforother

sourcesofenergy.Likeatinyjiujitsuartist,sheredirectstheenergyofstronger,heavier

fighters.Andthisway,shechannelsthecollectivestrengthoftheexistingwelfaresystem

towardrealizingthisideawithher.Thisisaclassicscalingtechniquethatnonprofitstypically

don’tmaster.Nancy’sorganizationsaretherareexception.

Youcanthinkofthistechniqueasamagnificentshortcut.Andit’sthekindofshortcutNancy

findsagainandagain.Shedartsahead.Shefindsquick,systemicfixestobiggnarlyproblems.

It’sapatternthroughoutherstoryofgrit.

SoNancyhassomuchgritthatnotonlywouldshecountasa10outof10gritpersoninthe

commercialworld,butshegoesanddoesitinthenonprofitworldwhichhasevenmore

landminesBecausecapitalismuchhardertocomeby,youdon'tgettoaself-sustaining

business,alotoftalentwantstogoworkwherethey'repaidalotmore.Andwhat'smoreour

overallsocietyatleasthereintheU.S.butprobablybroadlyrewardscommercialpeople

morethantheyrewardnonprofitpeople.

Withherfirstnon-profitstartup,Nancycutsthroughalloftheseconstraints.That’swhygritis

theessentialsuperpowerforentrepreneurs.Itbeatsbrains,brawnorboatloadsofcash.It’s

anunstoppablequalitythathelpsfoundersovercomeimpossibleoddsinthepublicorprivate

sector.AndthesamequalitythathelpedNancynavigatethewelfaresystem,workedjustas

wellassheworkedherwaythroughNewYork’suppercrustofdonors.

LUBLIN:SointheearlydaysofDressforSuccesswewoulddotheseclothingdrives.So

womenwouldgiveusclothessowewoulddoaclothingdriveatlikeGoldmanSachs

whentheygocorporatecasual.Andsowegetbeautifulbeautifulsuitsandlikethe

largestsuitwouldbeasize8andtheaveragesizeAmericanisactually14andthe

averagesizeDressforSuccessclientwasa22.Butwealwaysdidthosesuitdrives

anywaybecauseonceyougaveusyourArmanisuitsyougaveusmoney.Sowewould

takethosesuitsandwemightwarehousethemfortwoyearsbutwewerehappytoget

thosesuitsfromthosewomenatGoldmanbecausethentheywouldwriteuschecks

becausetheyfeltclosenesstousbecausewehadthatsuitthattheylikeinterviewed

somebodyinorthattheyyouknowlikewentonCNBCthefirsttimetheywerewearing

thatArmanisuit.Nowwehaditandsoitwasactuallykindofadonormechanism.Itwas

partofthewholecycleofDressforSuccess,ofkindofwealthybusinesswomen

connectingwithwomenwhoaregoingtogooutandlandtheirfirstjobs.Thatwasthe

trickofthetrade.

REID:Noticehowshekeepsturningproblems--inthiscase,pilesofuselessclothing--into

solutions:asourceoffunding.It’swhyIcallthebestentrepreneurs“infinitelearners”.The

morethornypatchestheyhit,themoreeffectivetheybecomeathackingtheirwayout.The

onlyproblemisthatsomeCEOs—likeNancy—getabitaddictedtoproblem-solving.If

there’snoproblemtosolve,well,theycreatesome.

LUBLIN:I'mawartimeCEO.Oncethingsgetgoodandit'speacetimeIgetboredandI

eitherwanttolikedosomethingelsewildtoitorI'llfuckitupbecauseI'mlikenobut

wecandoblahblahblah.AndandsoIgetboredandImoveon.

REID:Thisisoneofthebyproductsofgrit.It’sasortofrestlessenergythateventually

compelledNancytoleaveDressforSuccess,onceithadscaled.

LUBLIN:HavewetalkedaboutScooby-Doosyndrome?HaveItalkaboutthiswithyou?.

HOFFMAN:No.

LUBLIN:OKsoyou’veseenScooby-Doo?

HOFFMAN:Mm-hmm.

LUBLIN:EveryScoobyDooepisodeisthesame.Thereisachurchoramovietheaterit's

goingtobetorndowntobecomeastripmallOK.Andthere'slikeazombieoraghost

that’shauntingit.Andsoamysteryteamgetscalledtofindthezombieorghostand

ShaggyandScoobyaresomehowtheonesthatalwaysfindthezombieorgoeven

thoughVelmaknewitthewholetimewhichistotallyweirdbutwhatever.Andthey

unmaskthezombiebecauseit'snotazombieorghost.It'slikethegranddaughterofthe

founderofthemovietheaterorlikethepastthejanitorofthechurch.It'sthefucking

founder,thefounderisthezombieorghosthauntingthebuildingitdoesn'twantto

leave.IhadnodesiretobeaScoobyDoovillain.Right.SoIleavethingsIbuildthings

andthenImoveon.I'mnotparticularlysentimental

REID:AndclearlyyouwatchalotofScoobyDoo.

LUBLIN:ImeancomeonI'man80skid.Weallwatchedalotofthat.

REID:SoNancyfoundanewproblem,anearlybankruptorganizationcalledDoSomething

dotorg.DoSomethingmobilizesyoungpeopletovolunteerforworthycauses.Backin2003,

itwasnearlydefunct.

00:30:43

REID:AndsowhatwasthestateofDoSomethingwhenyouarrived?

LUBLIN:Bad.Itwasonfire.AndrewShuestarteditwhenhewasonMelrosePlacebut

thenhewentoffairandhadthreekidsinNewJersey,andDoSomethingfellonreally

hardtimes.WhenIgottheretheyhadjustlaidoff21outof22people.Theyhadlost

theirofficespace,andeverythingwasinboxesinstorageinQueens.Theywere$250K

indebtandhadabout$74000inthebankitwastotallytotallyfucked.

REID:Nancywassmitten.

LUBLIN:Ithoughtthenamewasgreat.DoSomethingwasgreat.Therewasno

organizationthatwascoolandfunforyoungpeopleanditwasthereneededtobe

somethingthatmadevolunteerismandsocialchangefunandenergeticandsotomeit

waslikeaficusplantyouknowliketheleavesfalloffallthetime.Butlikeiftherootsare

goodyoucanprobablybringthemback.AndIthoughtthisisinteresting.I'vealsojust

turned30andIwasgettingheadhuntedforanumberofveryseriousroles.ButwhatI

realizedwasthattheheadhunterwasonlybringinginmetomaketheheadhunterlook

good,likehere'sonecrazyoutsidetheboxcandidate.Lookwe'rebringingyoua30year

oldentrepreneur.NoonewastakingmeseriouslyandIwantedtotakesomethingthat

wastotallyscrewedandprovethatactuallyyeahI'manentrepreneurandI'malsoreally

smart.Ithinksometimesentrepreneursarewrittenoffaswackyvisionaries.Youknow

wewecanbemorethanthat.Wearesystemsthinkers.

REID:Beforelong,Nancygotthatficusplantflourishing.Thebreakthroughmoment?When

herteamidentifiedacrucialshiftintechnologythatmadeallthedifferenceinreachingtheir

adolescentaudience.Ifyouknowateenager,youprobablyalreadyknow:Togettheir

attention:?Textthem.

33:20

LUBLIN:Ithinkprobablythebiggestepiphanywasthepivottotext.Andthebestthing

thatIdidwasgetoutoftheway.SoIwasonaconferencecallandIsawthroughthe

glassdoorpeopleinmyofficehigh-fivingeachother.andIwaslike,“Whatisgoingon?

Whyareyouallsohappy?”Anditturnsoutthattwolikeentrylevelemployeeshad

polled500defunctusers—likepeoplewehadn'theardfrominsixmonthsprobablye-

mailthem20timesandpulledtheirmobilenumbersandtextthemaboutacampaign

wehaddone.AndinnineminutesIsawa20percentresponserate.Holycrap.AndI

wasIwassmartenoughtosay“Let'sdothat.”AndalsoIguessIwassmartenoughto

createanenvironmentwhereentry-levelemployeesfeltcomfortableexperimenting.

Andlikethat'swhatyou'vegottodoasanentrepreneurialCEOisgetoutoftheway

sometimes.Andthenwhenyouseesomeonedosomethingreallysmart:Grabitand

elevateit,andbelike,“Let'sdothat.”Andsowepivotedandwebecameamembership

organizationandwedideverythingaroundtext,andgrewrapidlythankstothat.

REID:Nancy’sabilitytotapEVERYresourcearoundher—includingherentry-levelemployees

—isoneofherhiddenstrengthsasascaleleader.UnderNancy’sguidance,DoSomething

addsnearly5millionteenagersasmembers.Andthenshedoessomethingtrulydaring.She

hatchedanideaforathirdnot-for-profitcalledCrisisTextLine.Andshegoesaheadand

launchesit,atthesametime.

LUBLIN:Idon'trecommendhavingtwofulltimejobs.

REID:NoticehowNancydoesn’trelishholdingdowntwoimpossiblydemandingjobsatonce.

Butyouhavetounderstandhermotivation.Whensheseesaproblem,shewantstosolveit

fast.Thebiggertheproblem,thegnarlierthesolution,themoreshewantstosolveit.

REID:HerirrepressibleurgetolaunchCrisisTextLinebeganwithasingletextfromasingleteenager.Yousee,DoSomethingsentallitscommunicationsbytextmessage.Andtheirvolunteerswouldrespondbytextaswell.Eachcampaignwouldunleashawaveofgoodwillandcheer,forthemostpart.Buttherewerealwaysafewteenswhorepliedtothesetexts,askingforhelp.

ButtherewouldbeacoupleofdozenmessagesoutofflowsayingthingslikeI'mbeing

bullied.Mybestfriendsareaddictedtocrystalmeth.Andwewouldtriagethem

REID:Oneday,Nancyreadatextmessagethatshecouldn’tstopturningoverinherhead.It

wasinresponsetoaDoSomethingcampaign.

LUBLIN:Andthenwegotamessagethatputmeonthisotherpath,thatliterallysaidhe

won'tstoprapingme.It'smydad.Hetoldmenottotellanyone.AndthenthelettersR

Uthere.Canyouimagine?You'retheCEO.Someonebringsthatandputsitonyourdesk

andsaysIdon'tknowwhattodowiththis.It'slikebeingpunchedinthestomach.So

horrific.Icouldn’tbelieveitwashappeningtoarealhumanandthen…Howbaddoesit

havetobetosharethat,liketobesoalonethatyousharethatwithanorganizationlike

this,andyoudon'tknowwhereit'sgoing.AndsowebuiltCrisisTextlinereallyforher.

REID:Herewecometothewellspringofgrit.Youhavetohaveamission—acallingthat’sso

powerful,itmakesyouwanttorunthroughaminefield,onafoggyday,withyourshoelaces

tiedtogether.

NancyenvisionedCrisisTextLineasahotlinethatwouldfunneltextmessagesfrom

distressedteenstocrisiscentersaroundthecountry.Itwouldopenupawholenewlineof

communicationforteenagerswhopreferredtheconvenienceandanonymityofwritingfrom

theirphones.NancyfiguredshecouldearmarksomeportionofDoSomething’sbudgetfor

thecause.Theywereaveraging$6millionayearincorporatesponsorships.Therewasjust

oneproblem.Aserviceforsuicidalteenswasnotanaturalfitforcorporatesponsors.

LUBLIN:IwenttotheboardandsaidIwanttodothisandyouguysIthinkrightlysaid,

brandconfusionwithDoSomething.DoSomethingishopehopefulhopefulhappy

volunteerism.CrisisTextLineisadifferentthing.Likewe’llgiveitourblessing.But

you’vegottodoitontheside.AndsoIdiditatthesametimeforalongtime.Itwas

harderthanIthoughtitwasgoingtobe.Anditwasmaybeharderthanitshouldhave

been.Thetruthisittookmetwoyearstosecurethefundingtodoit.Iwoulddialfor

dollars.AndIfoundoneafriendthatwaslikeyou'llcomeintomyofficeeveryweekfor

anhourandgothroughmyRolodex,andonthethirdweekIspoketosomeoneandin

fiveminutesIdescribeditfiveandsaidstopstopstop.I'mgoingtogiveyou$50,000

becausesomeoneneedstogiveyoumoneytoseeifthiswillgoanywhere.AndImay

neverseeyouagainbutit'sworthputtingthismoneydown.AndIwanttobe

anonymoussoIrefertohimforalongtimeasMr.X.He'snowfinebeingknown.It's

actually,it’sPeterBlum,whoistheboardchairofDonorsChoose,whohasdonethis.

He'smadebetsonpeoplelikethat,notexpectinganyreturntheseearlybetsonsocial

changeideas.That'sawesome.Andwiththatmoneyitbecamereal.Ihadtoreallydoit.

IhiredourCTOandourChiefDatascientist,eventhoughIonlyhad$50Ksothatwasn’t

goingtokeepthemverylong.Andsothenitmeant,shitIreallyhadtofindtherestof

themoneyandmakethishappen.

REID:SoNancy,onceagain,wasscalingonashoestringbudget.ShefiguredCrisisTextLine

couldpiggybackonapatchworkofcrisishotlinesacrossthecountry.Shewouldsupplythe

textmessages,thecounsellorswouldsupply24-hoursupport.Itwasshapinguptobe

anotheroneofhercleverjiu-jitsumoves,shewaschannelingtheirenergytothewrong

teens.Crisiscounsellorstendtospecializeinspecificissues,likesuicideorsexualabuseor

eatingdisorders.Andthisledsomecounsellorstowritesomeratherawkwardscripted

responses.

LUBLIN:Weoriginallybuiltthisthinkingwewouldjustbethepipeswewouldbethe

technologyandwewouldfarmthisouttoothercrisiscenterstodothecounseling.And

wekeptgrowinglikefastfastfastandwewentfrom3to11inlikesixmonthscrisis

centerswhatwenoticedwasthattheywereincrediblydiverse.Likeonecrisiscenter

wouldaskeverysingletext[er]areyoufeelingsuicidaltoday?No.Ihaveacalculusfinal

thisafternoon.ShouldIbefeelingsuicidal?Likethequalitywasallovertheplacewasn't

great.Soweculledbestpracticesfromtheplatformandsaidwellwhatifwetrainedour

ownpeoplebasedonwhatwe'reseeing.Andsowetrainedthismagic12cohortand

quicklysawthattheyoutperformedoneveryKPIandpivoted.Sowedumpedallofthe

crisiscenterswhowewerepaying.Sowesavedthatmoney.Movedinsteadtoa

volunteermodelandbasicallybecameamarketplace.

REID:Nancyhasmadeahugelyriskydecision,here.She’sscramblingforfunding.She’sjust

jettisonedherpartnershipswiththeexperiencedcounsellorswhoweresupposedtohelpher

scale.Andifshehasanychanceofkeepingherideaafloat,shehastonowtrainanarmyof

novicesintheartoftextingwithdistressedteens.

[midrollad]

Fortunately,Nancyhasagiftforrecruitingandcelebratingvolunteers.Infact,thegreatest

shortcutNancyhaseverfound—theonesheturnstoagainandagain—isthealmost

bottomlesswellofhumanindustriousness.WhatNancyunderstandssowellisthatpeople

lovetohelp.Sometimesallyouneedtodoisaskthem.

Nancyissoconfidentvolunteerswillanswerhercall,thatsheenvisionsamarketplacefor

crisishotlinevolunteers—muchinthewayUberbuiltamarketplacefordriversorAirbnb

builtamarketplaceforhomerentals.Buthowonearthdoesshematchsupplyanddemand?

Shecan’toffersurgepricingtovolunteersduringaspikeinteenageneed.Shecan’tofferany

pricingatall.Whatsheneedsisasurgeofgoodwill.

It’saboldvision.Andthereareahandfulofotherscaleleaderswhowilltellyouthatthis

works.

GREGBALDWIN:Ithinkasarulewetendtounderestimatepeople'shungeranddesire

tobehelpful.

REID:That’sGregBaldwin,PresidentofVolunteerMatch.Theirwebsitematchesmillionsofvolunteerswithmorethan100,000organizationsthatneedtheirhelp.Themostscalablenon-profits,hesays,startwithapleaforhelpthat’sambitious—vergingonunreasonable.

BALDWIN:WhenyouknowwhenHabitatforHumanitygotstartedhowunreasonableis

ittothinkthatyoucaninvitemillionsofpeopletohelpbuildhomesforotherpeople.

It'sacrazyidea.Whenyouthinkaboutitbutittooksomebodytoasktoseehow

powerfulthataskistobringpeopleintodoingsomethingthattheythinkisimportant.

CrisisTextLineisanotheramazingexampleofthat.It'ssounreasonabletothinkthat

peoplewouldwillinglytaketimeoutoftheirbusylivestobeontheircellphonetexting

withkidsincrisis.Itjustitalmostdoesn'tmakesensewhysomeonewoulddothat.And

certainlyyoucanimaginebeingreluctanttoasksomebodytodothat.Butwhatwefind

sooftenisit'sinthosebigboldasks,thoseunreasonableasks,thatsomeofthemost

amazingthingshappen.

REID:Forthisepisode,wedidaflashpolloftheVolunteerMatchcommunity—themanagersatnon-profitswhoareonthefrontlinesofthesecrazyrequests.Wewantedtoknowjusthowhardthey’llpushtheirvolunteers.Andhowfarwastoofar?Soweasked,“Haveyoueverheardavolunteersay,‘You’reaskingtoomuchofme?’Morethan400volunteermanagersresponded.Andstatistically,speaking,itwasaresounding“No.”

BALDWIN:Only11percentofVolunteermanagershaveeverheardthat,whichis

fascinating.

REID:AndthenweaskedwhethertheythoughttheycouldaskMOREoftheirvolunteers.

BALDWIN:And70percentoftheuserssaidyes.Sotherealquestionis:What'skeeping

peoplefrommakingtheserequeststhatareyouknowsomewhatoutsidethenorm?

REID:It’sagoodquestion.AndJohnLilly,theformerCEOofMozilla,hasatheory.Mozillais

anopen-sourcewebbrowserpoweredalmostentirelybyvolunteers.Theydoeverything

fromcodingtomarketingtotranslation—andJohnactuallybelievesthesevolunteers,

workingforfree,canruncirclesaroundpaidprofessionals.Youjusthavetoknowhowto

workonaslidingscale.

LILLY:Sotherearewaysforpeopletocontributeanhouraweek,to40hoursaweek,

or80hoursaweek.Anditkindofscalesupanddown,whichmostorganizationsdon't

knowhowtodo.Theyknowhowtohaveyoubeanemployeeornot,sosortof

binary.Opensource,thesuccessfulones,figureoutawaytobeonaspectrum.

Volunteersisnotahomogenouscategory.It’sallsortsofdifferenttypes.

There'saguyIrememberfromUlanBator,whotranslatedforFirefoxintoMongolian.

Andforhimhediditbecauseifhehadn'tdonethathisparentswouldn't,whoonly

spokeMongolian,wouldn'thavebeenabletounderstandsoftwaretoaccessthe

Internet.Andsoforthesepeopletheydoitasalaboroflove.Andyouknowyou'll

knowthissinceyoulearnedLatin,butliketherootofthewordamateursisomma

whichmeansIlove.AndIthinkthatamateursandvolunteersinmanywaysaremore

powerfulthanprofessionalsbecausetheydoitfornon-monetary.Theydoitdespite

allthechallengesandallthehardparts.

REID:AndNancyisanexpertatwhippingupthatinneromma,thatinnerlove.Shestarts

fromthepremisethatshe’snotuniqueincaring.Plentyofotherpeoplecouldcareasmuch

asher.Shejusthastofindthem.Andsellthemonhercause.

Andifyouwanttoknowwhattruegritsoundslike,justlistentohermultifacetedapproach

torecruitment.Shesoundsabitlikeagoldprospectorwhoknowsexactlywheretopanalong

theriver.

LUBLIN:Sorecruitmentsure.Zeroinginonlikewhoareourbestcrisiscounselorsand

figuringthatoutwaskeyandnowfindingmoreofthem.Turnsoutthatitshifts.LIke

post-election,sadliberalsaregreat.We'relovingsadliberals.Peoplereallywanttofeel

likethey'rethey'rehavinganimpactonsomethingandwhat'sbetterthantalkingto

anotherstrangerinthemostdiremomentsoftheirlife.It'sarealimpact.Momsofa

certainage,lovethem.Deafandhardofhearing.Phenomenal.Mostorganizationsdon't

knowwhattodowiththem.Hardtovolunteerifyou'redeafandhardofhearing.We

loveyou.Veterans.Iloveveterans,especiallywhentheheatisonandwe'respiking.The

veteransarelike“Wegotthis.Wecandoit.Let'sgo.”

ThisswellofofvolunteersallowedCrisisTextLinetoscalequicklyandmeetthegrowing—

andspiking—demand..

LUBLIN:We'vedonezeromarketing.WehaveexchangeWe'vedoneover700,000

conversationssincelaunching.Thatworksouttobecloseto30millionmessages

exchanged.

REID:Butthose30millionmessagesdidn’tarriveinasteadystream.Theywouldspikeand

dip,regardlessofhowmanycounsellorswereavailableatthetime.Soshestartedtriaging

themessagesthroughacombinationofgruntworkandbigdata.

Theyhadtoidentifythekeywordsandphrasesthatteenagersuseintimesofdistress,and

thenrankthosewordsonascalefromworryingtolet’scall911,immediately.Theystarted

withtheobviouslydistressingwords.

LUBLIN:Soweoriginallyputintothealgorithmwordslike“die,”“suicide”or

“overdose.”Ifyoutextinthosewordsyou'renumberoneinthequeue.Andthenwe

addedamachinelearninglayerandsaidwellwhatreallyendsupinahighriskcase.

Whatarethewordspeopleuse?Anditturnsoutthattherearethousandsofthemthat

aremorehighriskthanthansuicide.Apparentlyit's16timesmorepowerfulnotsix

timesmorepowerful16timesmorelikelytoendupcalling911thanthewordsuicide

whichIknowI'vealreadyreadthisyouknowbutwhateverlistenerscanguessandit's

it'sactuallyit'sibuprofen,aspirin,tylenol,advilit'sthemostcommondruginyour

house.Soyounotonlyhavetheideaandtheplanbutyou'vethemeansandthetiming

becauseit'srightinyourmedicinecabinet.Sothosewordsandtheunhappyfacecrying

emojiisfourtimesmorepowerfulfourtimesmorelikelyforustoendupcalling911

thanthewordsuicide.ThehashtagKMS.Anyideawhatthatstandsfor?Neitherdidwe.

Thealgorithmsdiscoveredthat’skillmyself.Thisisaperfectexampleofscienceofdata,

oftechnologymakinganorganizationfasterandmoreaccurate.

REID:Beforelongherteamwasequippedtohandlehugeinfluxesofmessages.Soonshewas

detectingwavesofanxietyrollingacrossmiddleschoolsnationwide.Thedatawas

unprecedentedinitsscopeandtimeliness.

LUBLIN:Ohgosh.Sothehardthingaboutmarketplaces.Soyoudon'tcontrolsupplyand

youdon'tcontroldemand.Everyonceinawhilethere’llbeanunpredictableevent.Now

ifIranLyftIcanputsurgepricinginplaceandsoyoucanhandlethat.Sounpredictable

eventsforCrisisTextLinearethingslikeZaynleavingOneDirection.Andwehadjust

tonsofpeopletextinginwithseriousanxiety.

REID:Forthoselistenerswhohaven’theardofZaynorOneDirection,I’lltranslateintoold

fogieterms—ZaynwouldbeZaynMalik,aBritishsingerfortheboybandOneDirection.And

whenhelefttheband,itwasabitlikeJustinTimberlakeleaving‘NSyncorJohnLennon

leavingtheBeatles.Itmaynotsoundlikeabigdealtopeopleofacertainage.Buttoalotof

teenagersatthetime,thenewswasshattering.Nancycallsthesurgeoftextsfollowinghis

departure,“theZaynspike.”

LUBLIN:Imeanthehashtag“cutforZayn,”trendedworldwideforalmostthreedays

whenZaynleftOneDirection.Thesearegirlscuttingrealskinhopingthathewouldsee

thisandrejoinOneDirection.Andthatsentrealtraffictous.Thatwasrough.The

electionnight.AtonepointwesaweighttimesnormaltrafficmostlyLGBTQtexters,

childrenofimmigrantsandimmigrantsthemselvestextingandaskingiftheirfamilywas

goingtobedeportedandthensexualassaultsurvivors,includingsurvivorswhohad

beenassaultedyearsagobutalsohadbeenassaultedinthat24hourperiodsaying

shouldIbotherwithmycourtcase,shouldIbothergoingtopolice.Who'sgoingto

believemenow.FeelingtriggeredbytheelectionofTrump.

REID:Andhowdoyoubuildthecapacityforthat?

LUBLIN:Againasamarketplace.

REID:Andwhat'sthesizeofthevolunteernumber?

LUBLIN:Yeah.That'sover3000.Andandtheytakealotoftimeandcaringandloveand

that'sactuallymyprimaryfocus.Imeantheyarewhoweare.Andcanyouimagine,

theydoitallforfreelikethey'regivingustimeattwoo'clockinthemorning.They're

incredible,incrediblepeople.

REID:“Theyarewhoweare.”ThatonesentencesumsuptheapproachtoscalethatNancy

hastakenthroughouthercareer.Sheidentifiesthepeopleandorganizationswhocantake

herideaforward,andshemakesthemherown.There’salottobesaidaboutstickingwitha

vision,andadaptingitthroughtheyears—weatheringtheriseandfallofluck.

ButIdon’twanttooverstatethepowerofgrit.Ultimatelyyourplansaresubjecttoluck.You

maybethinking,Ithoughtgritwasmysuperpower—myopportunitytoovercometimeand

chance.It’salittlemorenuancedthanthat.IlikethewaySamAltman,presidentofthe

SiliconValley’smostsuccessfulaccelerator,YCombinator,unpacksthisproblem.

SAM:ThewayIhavealwaystriedtothinkaboutitformyselfisthatluckisabigfactor

butI'mgoingtokeepworkingandeventuallyyouknowbecauseit'sarandomvariable

it'sgoingtoswingmyway.AndIthinkthat'sroughlytherightmindsettohave.Ifyou

don’tacknowledgetheroleofluckatalllikeIthinkyou'reWronginadangerousway

whereyousortofjustarenotagreathumanandyoucan'tlookat—Igotreallyluckyat

somepoints—that'sprobablybad.

Butifyou'realsolikewellit'sallaboutluckandyouknowIhavenochance.Theworldis

againstmeandI'mjustgoingtosithereandcomplainthat'snotgoingtoworkeither.So

Ithinktheroughlycorrectmindsetisluckisimportant.ButI'meventuallygoingtoget

luckyandI'mgoingtojustworkreallyharduntilIdo

REID:ThatmaybetheoneofthebetterdefinitionsofoptimismIthinkI'veheard.

REID:Andtoseehowthisinteractionbetweengritandluckreallyworks,Iwanttointroduce

youtoonelastentrepreneur.SaraBlakely,thefounderandCEOofSpanx,a$250milliona

yearundergarmentindustryheavyweight.Ontheonehand,shehadtheultimatelucky

break.ShesentaprototypicalpairofSpanxtohertelevisionhero.Shetellsmeshewas

hardlypreparedforwhatwouldhappennext.

SARA

01:03:26

SoIinventedthisproductandIsentagiftbaskettoOprahoftheproductwithanotein

itandfoundoutAndrewhodressesherputitinherwardrobeandsheputitonand

loveditandbasicallyhasworniteverydaysince.

REID

01:03:42

That'sawesome.Andthenwhatdidtheshow.Howdidtheshowimpactyourbusiness.

SARA

01:03:48

Ohitwasunbelievable.ImeanIhadnomoneytoadvertiseIwasrunningitoutofmy

apartmentandOprahhelditupandsaidThisismyfavoriteproduct.Soeverything

startedgoingbezerk.

REID:ButthissensationalappearanceisactuallyjustthetailendofherjourneytoOprah.

SarahadbeendoingeverythingshecouldtoappearonOprahforthebetterpartofadecade.

Youprobablyhaven’theardaboutherfailedattempts.Saratickedoffafewforme.

SARA

01:02:14

WellwhenIwasinmy20sincollegeIIhadavisualizationthatIcreatedformyselfthat

wouldmeanthatIhadarrived.AndmyvisualizationwasmesittingontheOprah

WinfreyShowbecauseinmymindifIwassittingonhershowitmeansIhaddone

somethingreallyrightanddonesomethingamazingwithmylife.AndIhadnoideahow

Iwasgoingtogetthere.ButIwas100percentsureIwasthere.

01:02:40ImeanIwassoclearseeingmyselfonstageandthenIcalledthenext10years

ofmylifefillingintheblanksIwasalwaysthinkingisthiswhat'sgoingtogetmeonthe

Oprahshow.YouknowItaketheLSATandgotolawschoolbecauseIthoughtmaybeI'd

tryafamouscaseandthat'showIenduponOprah.ButthenIfailedtheLSATtwiceand

couldn'tgetintolawschool.AndthenIdidstandupcomedyforawhileandIthought

maybethat'smaybesomethinghereishowIenduponOprahsoIwasconsciouslyand

subconsciouslypursuingthingsthatIthoughtcouldultimatelygetmetothatthat

snapshotthatmeantsuccessforme.

REID:NowbeforeIleaveyou—Saraisofferingyou,thelistener,atestofyourownmettle.

Youcanspeaktoher,personally,aboutallofherplansB.She’llcallyou,ononecondition.

SARA

Andyouknowthescrappysideofmecan'tresistbutIyouknowItoldyouIjuststarted

InstagramandIwouldloveforthepeoplelisteningtofollowmeonInstagramandI'm

goingtochooseoneofyourlistenersiftheyputhashtagMastersofScaleinmylatest

postthattheyseeandI'mgoingtocallthemanddoaprivate20minutecallwiththem

wheretheycanaskmeanything.

REID:Grittylisteners,theracetoamasterclasswithSarabeginsnow.Andifyoucan’tget

Saraonthephone,don’tworry.YouhavecountlessplansB,solongasyouhavethegritto

seethemthrough.

I’mReidHoffman.Thankyouforlistening.

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