Intervista a Bernadette Roberts

8/18/2019 Intervista a Bernadette Roberts

1/8

Category Archives: Bernadette RobertsOCTOBER 16, 2009 · 9:40 AM

From the Unitive State to No-Self –Bernadette Roberts

Bernadette Roberts

An Interview wit Bernadette Roberts

In tis e!"#$sive interview wit %te&an Bodian, '&$b#ised in te (ov)*e" 19+6 iss$e o -O.A

/OR(A, a$tor Bernadette Roberts des"ribes te &at o te Cristian "onte3ative ater te

e!&erien"e o oneness wit .od

Bernadette Roberts is te a$tor o two e!traordinar5 boos on te Cristian "onte3ative

7o$rne5,The Experience of No-Self '%a3ba#a, 19+2 and The Path to No-Self '%a3ba#a, 19+8 A

"#oistered n$n or nine 5ears, Roberts re&orts tat se ret$rned to te wor#d ater e!&erien"in te

$nitive state;, te state o oneness wit .od, in order to sare wat se ad #earned and to tae on te

&rob#e3s and e!&erien"e o oters In te 5ears tat o##owed se "o3eted a rad$ate deree in

ed$"ation, 3arried, raised o$r "i#dren, and ta$t at te &re


2/8

e!&erien"es, stret"ed te #i3its, and too one too 3an5 "an"es; en I a&&roa"ed er or an

interview, Roberts was re#$"tant at irst, &rotestin tat oters wo ad tried ad distorted er

3eanin, and tat notin ad "o3e o it in te end Instead o a #ive interview, se s$ested, w5 not

send er a #ist o >$estions to wi" se wo$#d res&ond in writin, tereb5 e#i3inatin a## &ossibi#it5 or

3is$nderstandin As a res$#t, I never ot to 3eet Bernadette Roberts a"e to a"e ? b$t er answers to

35 >$estions, wi" are as "are$##5 "rated and as dee "onsidered as er boos, are a re3arab#e

testa3ent to te &ower o "onte3ation

Stephan: Co$#d 5o$ ta# brie#5 abo$t te irst tree staes o te Cristian "onte3ative #ie as 5o$

e!&erien"ed te3 ? in &arti"$#ar, wat 5o$ 'and oters ave "a##ed te $nitive state

Bernadette: %tri"t#5 s&eain, te ter3s &$rative;, i##$3inative;, and $nitive; 'oten $sed o te

"onte3ative &at do not reer to dis"rete staes, b$t to a wa5 o trave# were #ettin o;, insit;,

and $nion;, deine te 3a7or e!&erien"es o te 7o$rne5 To i##$strate te "ontin$$3, a$tors "o3e $&

wit vario$s staes, de&endin on te "riteria te5 are $sin %t Teresa, or e!a3e, divided te &at

into seven staes or 3ansions; B$t I donDt tin we so$#d et #o"ed into an5 stae teor5: it is

a#wa5s so3eone e#seDs retros&e"tive view o is or er own 7o$rne5, wi" 3a5 not in"#$de o$r own

e!&erien"es or insits O$r ob#iation is to be tr$e to o$r own insits, o$r own inner #it

M5 view o wat so3e a$tors "a## te $nitive stae; is tat it beins wit te *ar (it o te %&irit

or te onset o te transor3ationa# &ro"ess ? wen te #arva enters te "o"oon, so to s&ea & to tis

&oint, we are a"tive#5 reor3in o$rse#ves, doin wat we "an to brin abo$t an abidin $nion wit te

divine B$t at a "ertain &oint, wen we ave done a## we "an, te divine ste&s in and taes over Te

transor3in &ro"ess is a divine $ndoin and redoin tat "$#3inates in wat is "a##ed te state o

transor3in $nion; or 35sti"a# 3arriae;, "onsidered to be te deinitive state or te Cristian

"onte3ative In e!&erien"e, te onset o tis &ro"ess is te des"ent o te "#o$d o $nnowin, wi",

be"a$se is or3er #it ad one o$t and #et i3 in darness, te "onte3ative initia##5 inter&rets as

te divine one into idin In 3odern ter3s, te des"ent o te "#o$d is a"t$a##5 te a##in awa5 o te

eo


3/8

Bernadette: Tat o""$rred $ne!&e"ted#5 so3e 28 5ears ater te transor3in &ro"ess Te divine

"enter ? te "oin, or tr$e se#; ? s$dden#5 disa&&eared, and wito$t "enter or "ir"$3eren"e tere is no

se#, and no divine O$r s$b7e"tive #ie o e!&erien"e is over ? te &assae is inised I ad never eard

o s$" a &ossibi#it5 or a&&enin Obvio$s#5 tere is ar 3ore to te e#$sive e!&erien"e we "a## se# tan

7$st te eo Te &arado! o o$r &assae is tat we rea##5 do not now wat se# or "ons"io$sness is, so

#on as we are #ivin it, or are it Te tr$e nat$re o se# "an on#5 be $##5 dis"#osed wen it is one, wen

tere is no se#

One o$t"o3e, ten, o te no


4/8

are re>$ired to "o3e to te end o se#, a"ts "o3&arab#e to "$ttin ever


5/8

i3aine "ons"io$sness as a ba##oon i##ed wit, and s$s&ended in divine air Te ba##oon e!&erien"es te

divine as i33anent, in; itse#, as we## as trans"endent, be5ond or o$tside itse# Tis is te e!&erien"e

o te divine in o$rse#ves and o$rse#ves in te divine= in te state o oneness, Crist is oten seen as te

ba##oon 'o$rse#ves, "o3etin tis trinitarian e!&erien"e B$t wat 3aes tis wo#e e!&erien"e

&ossib#e ? te divine as bot i33anent and trans"endent ? is obvio$s#5 te ba##oon, ie "ons"io$sness

or se# Cons"io$sness sets $& te divisions o witin and wito$t, s&irit and 3atter, bod5 and so$#,

i33anent and trans"endent= in a"t, "ons"io$sness is res&onsib#e or ever5 division we now o B$t

wat i we &o& te ba##oon ? or better, "a$se it to vanis #ie a b$bb#e tat #eaves no resid$e A## tat

re3ains is divine air Tere is no divine in an5tin, tere is no divine trans"enden"e or be5ond

an5tin, nor is te divine an5tin e "annot &oint to an5tin or an5one and sa5, Tis or tat is

divine; %o te divine is a## ? a## b$t "ons"io$sness or se#, wi" "reated te division in te irst a"e

As #on as "ons"io$sness re3ains owever, it does not ide te divine, nor is it ever se&arated ro3 it

In Cristian ter3s, te divine nown to "ons"io$sness and e!&erien"ed b5 it as i33anent and

trans"endent is "a##ed .od= te divine as it e!ists &rior to "ons"io$sness and ater "ons"io$sness is one

is "a##ed .odead Obvio$s#5, wat a""o$nts or te dieren"e between .od and .odead is te ba##oon

or b$bb#e ? se# or "ons"io$sness As #on as an5 s$b7e"tive se# re3ains, a "enter re3ains= and so, too,

does te sense o interiorit5

Stephan: -o$ 3ention tat, wit te #oss o te &ersona# se#, te &ersona# .od dro&s awa5 as we## Is

te &ersona# .od, ten, a transitiona# i$re in o$r sear" or $#ti3ate #oss o se#

Bernadette: %o3eti3es we oret tat we "annot &$t o$r iner on an5tin or an5 e!&erien"e tat is

not transitiona# %in"e "ons"io$sness, se#, or s$b7e"t is te $3an a"$#t5 or e!&erien"in te divine,

ever5 s$" e!&erien"e is &ersona##5 s$b7e"tive= t$s in 35 view, &ersona# .od; is an5 s$b7e"tive

e!&erien"e o te divine ito$t a &ersona#, s$b7e"tive se#, we "o$#d not even s&ea o an i3&ersona#,

non


6/8

%ti##, i we a"t$a##5 new te $nbrideab#e "as3 tat #ies between te tr$e nat$re o "ons"io$sness or

se# and te tr$e nat$re o te divine, we wo$#d des&air o ever 3ain te 7o$rne5 %o "ons"io$sness is

te 3arve#o$s divine invention b5 wi" $3an beins 3ae te 7o$rne5 in s$b7e"tive "o3&anionsi&

wit te divine= and, #ie ever5 divine invention, it wors Cons"io$sness bot ides te "as3 and

brides it ? and wen we ave "rossed over, o "o$rse, we do not need te bride an5 3ore %o it doesnDt

3atter tat we start o$t on o$r 7o$rne5 wit o$r o#5 "ards, ons and be##s, sa"red boos and re#iio$s

ee#ins A## o it so$#d #ead to rowt and transor3ation, te $#ti3ate s$rrender o o$r i3aes and

"on"e&ts, and a #ie o se##ess ivin en tere is notin #et to s$rrender, notin #et to ive, on#5

ten "an we "o3e to te end o te &assae ? te endin o "ons"io$sness and its &ersona##5 s$b7e"tive

.od One #i3&se o te .odead, and no one wo$#d want .od ba"

Stephan: @ow does te &at to no$iva#ent to te Cristian e!&erien"e o oneness

or transor3in $nion I a @ind$ ad wat I "a## te no


7/8

is a"t$a##5 te no


8/8

"a#3, i3&ert$rbabi#it5, and non

Intervista a Bernadette Roberts

Documents

Transcript of Intervista a Bernadette Roberts