Interview Musil

8/12/2019 Interview Musil

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Joseph F McCrindle Foundation

A conversation with Robert MusilAuthor(s): Robert Musil, Eithne Wilkins and Ernst KaiserSource: The Transatlantic Review, No. 8 (Winter 1961), pp. 9-24Published by: Joseph F. McCrindle FoundationStable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/41511996.

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A conversation with Robert Musilby Eithne Wilkins and Ernst KaiserThe writersofthis ntervieweverknewMusil personally. heyhave ofcourseformed picture fhimthroughtudy fhisworkA recentjourneytook hemoVienna ndelsewheren searchofdirectvidencefrom hosewhohad knownhim,and it was a remarkable,lmost n uncanny, xperiencethat achconversationafforded-onversationsetween,n the one side,twopeoplewith ntimateknowledgefa mantheyhad nevermet nd, on theother,hirdpersonswhohadbeenwellacquainted ithhim ndyet, s theyall emphasized, adnevertruly nownhim.Musil was reserved,ourteous,distant,ndhabitually ell-dressed,ven n his astyearswhenhe was ill, nexile, orgotten,ndpoor.He was a manapart, s alone as ultimatelynlythecontemplativesre. Yet, like all contemplatives,e has a messageoreveryone hocanread.In thefollowingmaginaryonversationll thewords ttributedo Musilaretranslatedfromhisownwritings, any assages akenfrom npublishedmanuscriptources. hepatternf uch n interviewinevitablyependsn acombinationof ubjectivendobjectiveactors,ndthecompilersanonly aythat o thebestoftheirknowledgend belief heyhaveused MusiVs wordsfairly.The imaginaryonversations a traditionalliteraryevicethat hasat timesbeenusedfrivolously. hereis nofrivolityntended ere.(The interviewersrerathershy f heirsubject, homay, heyuspect, aveoverheardomeoftheir emarksbout heproblems e hassetthem incehisdeath, otonly ntranslatingndinterpretingiswork, ut ntranscribingismanuscripts.n thehalf-lightf imbothey annotquite ee the ook on hisface.His manner, owever,smerelyhatofa reserved anwho s urbanelymorenterestednthetalkthan n thetalkers.)interviewer a: Herr Dr. Musil, in the special circumstances f thisinterviewwe can't ask you what everyonemost wants to know:how you would have finishedThe Man WithoutQualities .. so,really,we're neitherherenor there.musil: Herenessand Nowness are infinitelyvervalued.What reallymoves us is always and I phrase it warily- 've always refused oseekan explanationor a name for t -to some extent n antagonismto thatmode of experience.What reallymoves us getsdisplacedbyso much Here and Now, by the overpowering;presence of theperpetually resentmoment.

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THE TRANSATLANTICREVIEW

a: Ah, that'swhat the Man withoutQualities says in his defenseofwhathe callstheabolitionofreality.interviewer b And here we're meetingMusil under conditionsofabolished reality.So it's as if we were working with imaginarynumbers, nd theproblemis-MUSiL:-like bridgewith only the first nd last piles there.Yet onecrosses t as if t were there n itsentirety.a: You mean . . . with the aid of ?musil: . . . God. The oddest thing s the fact thatyou can performreal operationswith such imaginaryvalues and end up with atangibleresult.a: So we're agreed,then,thatwe're in a realmwe acceptmuch as themathematiciansccept the square root of minusone? The answersyou give are predestined, ut the sequence is determinedby the

course of our somewhat absurdoperation.Not too absurd,we hope.musil With a limited and specific alidity,remindingus of the free-dom with which mathematicsmakes use of absurdity n order toarrive t thetruth.b: May one ask the obvious question?May we have your commentson death?musil: It's alwaysbelievedthatface to face withdeathone savours ifemore ntensely, rinksdeeperof t.The poetssayso. But it'snot likethat.Simply-one'sfreed rom bondage,as itwerefrom stiff neeor heavyrucksack.b: And life?musil: An unpleasantaffair hat one can get throughby means ofsmoking.Treat lifenot as realitybut as a metaphor, symbol.Atbottom all anybody loves and desiresis metaphorical. The boylongs for a gold watch. The young man with the gold watchlongsforthe well-off uitablewife. The man with watch and wifelongs for the job as managing director.But when he's success-fully ttainedfulfilmentf this ittlecircleof wishes and is calmlyswinging o and fro n itlike a pendulum, omehow t seemshisstoreof unsatisfied reams has not diminishedby one jot, for when hewantsto riseabove the rut of every day he will resort o metaphorand simile .. (in a reminiscentone) . . . Achilles nd Moosbrugger,that's metaphor. ikewise, ateron, Agathe.



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ACONVERSATIONWITHROBERTMUSIL

b Achillesbeing thatvery earlyversionofwhat later became Ulrich,the Man without Qualities. Achilles (or the slightly ater versioncalled Anders,the man who was other) s the logician, the cool,civilizedman who also has thecapacityforviolence. Indeed in yourearlynotesyou saidhe saw his mirror-reflectionnMoosbrugger, hecriminal unatic who stands forall the destructivenessn us. Surelythis s a polaritynot onlyin theworld,not onlyin theherohimself,but also between the hero and the murderer?musil It's two sidesofhim thatare notyetwelded together.b: In a way what you were doing all thoseyearswas welding themtogether, hen. Ulrich, who discovered that he 'loathed Evil', is averydifferent anfromhispredecessors chilles ndAnders.Yet hetoo embodiesa polarity.musil: He was fighting or his salvation.He tried to put everycon-ceivableobstacle n theway ofit.And thatwas whyhe laughedandtried o misleadthe rest fthemby seeming omock and exaggerate.a: Isn'tthatfundamentally hat TheMWQ is 'about'?musil: The main problemis thesearchfor theethically ompleteact,forwhat once ironically efer o as 100percentbeingand action . .I tryto show what I call 'the hole in Europeanmorality',which iswhatprevents ight ction: briefly,t's thewrongtreatment hathasbeen accorded to mystical xperience.a: But thatdidn'tyetcome out inyourfirstfragmentaryrafts, id it?I mean, in The Spy and The RedeemerAchilles nd Andershad tocome to a bad end, obviously. When did you actuallybegin thework thatwas to turn nto TheMWQ?musil: When one takesstockofoneself, hirty earsare like one year.The interlocking lans, the interlocking f plans and execution, nall that timecome to forma thick,tangledskein,which graduallygets loosened up by forgetfulness.he book's beginningsgo backalmostto the timewhen I was writingmyfirst ook.b: YoungTorless?About 1902?a: But can't it be traced even further ack, to your attemptednovelwhen you were seventeen?musil: (recalling he title)The Adventuresnd Wanderingsfa SpiritualVivisectort theBeginningftheTwentiethCenturya: The result,TheMWQ, has been called thegreatAustrian atire, he

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THE TRANSATLANTICREVIEW

historicalpanoramaofthe astdaysoftheAustro-Hungarianmpire,a portrait f the timesmusil: It's not the immemoriallyawaited great Austrian novel. . .It's not a portrait f the times.Nor is it a social study. t's not aconfession, ut a satire. t's not a satireA and b: (interrupting)ut there's atire n it And irony.You won'tdenyyour irony.musil Ironymeansportraying ne of theclergy n sucha way as alsoto hit offa communist.To portray fool in such a way thattheauthorsuddenlyfeels damn it,that'spartlyme. Constructiverony.For me irony isn't a gesture ndicating superiority:t's a way ofconductingwarfare . . Philosophichumour,one might ay.For theworld's notyet ripefor eriousness . . Ironymustcontain n elementof suffering,therwise t's meresmug superiority.b: So?musil: It's not a satirebut a positiveconstruction.What interestsme isintellectualpatterns,what you might call the spectral aspect ofevents. My 'historical'novel doesn't present anythingthat isn'tequallytruetoday. set out tomakea contributiono the ntellectualand spiritualmastery f theworld, even by way of thenovel. So Ishould be extremelyglad if thepublic would pay less attention omyaestheticqualities nd more to myintentions.b By now I thinkmostpeople know how you setyourscene Vienna,

from autumn 191 on into summer1914, up to the mobilisation.musil: Which toreour world and our attitudes o shreds,past repair.a: In 1926,you mayrecall,you toldan interviewerhat here henovelwould end.But inJanuary, 942,you made a projectfor n epilogueto be spokenby a now-elderlyUlrich after he second world war.Did you everreallydecide whereyou would stopmusil: (perhaps ardonically) have a poor memory . . One's alwaysmaking plans and it's always turningout differently.he writerknowswhathe meansonlyafter e's done thewriting.A: Yes, fromyournotebooksand manuscriptsne seesthat's trikinglytrue in your own case. Well, let's keep to the book you actuallywrote. The situation s in Vienna a group of idealists nd patriots,representativesf Money and Mind, organisea campaign to makethe Emperor's ubilee in 1918 the occasion of Austria's iberation

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A CONVERSATIONWITHROBERT MUSIL 13

fromPrussianmaterialismnd themachineage. The one thingtheydon't have is any sortof idea. In the end, the money collectedtoservean undefined deal of gloryand peace may be allocated to apageant celebratingAustrianbeers and wines. Your hero, Ulrich,is theonly personwho sees tall clearly.But he doesn'tdoanything.musil: People want Ulrich to do something.But what I'm concernedwith s themeaningof whatever'sdone. In all things oncernedwithhigh ideals mankind behaves in a way that's considerablymoreold-fashioned han one would expectfromlooking at its machines.a: So what is the centralquestion?musil: How is a manwith mind oregard eality?b As Ulrich'santagonistyou have the millionaire romPrussiawhomUlrich meets n the salon of 'the second Diotima'. Diotima and themillionaireare elective affinitiesn a way that parodies the love

betweenUlrich and his sisterAgathe,whom he meets,aftermanyyearsofseparation,when his father ies. When you talked about thework in progress n 1926 you spoke of Agathe as Ulrich's twin.Subsequently ou made heronly deallyhis twin. Ulrichcalls herhisSiamesetwin,even his 'self-love'.musil: Biologicallyspeaking he twin sister s veryrare,but she ives nall of us as a spiritualUtopian ideal, a manifestdea of our self.Andwhatformostpeopleremainsmereyearning omestrueformyhero.b You said a fewminutesago thatAgathe s 'metaphorical'. t seemstousthat hesymbolizes wholerealm,whichyouonce called Agathoid'musil: Yes. The realm of the Siamese Twins and of theMillennium,where ifegrowsin enchanted tillnessike a flower . .a: (excited)Yes, yes, that's n the last chapterof the secondvolume,the last chapterpublished in your lifetime t's therethatAgathebecomes almostunearthly,yet with the scent of 'unknownplants'abouther,and inspiresUlrich with theclear resolve: We'll never cton the inspiration f the moment,but only out of a conditionprevailing o the asthorizon.'musil: Whatevershe did was direct,mmediate . . And thisalthoughshe did it verygently, lmost ike the sound of thebow on a cellostring. ut inthedepththat tcame from heregrewneitherthoughtsnor words . . Her gentle actions were like a landslide in someprimevalworld.



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14 THE TRANSATLANTICREVIEW

b: No wonder you formulated he question as one whetherto be'practicalor to seek a Madonna'.musil: (evasively)My mind s not very practical.b: As you workedon the book through he twenties, hefigure f thehero continually hanged,his name changed,theplot changed,thetitlechanged. Agathe was unchangingfrom the beginning. Onlyfor a short time then she was not Agathe, the Good One, butAngele, theAngel.musil: Not theimage of a woman, but theimage ofmy yearning orthewoman.a: WhatJungcalls theAnima?Musil : Introspectionnd ecstatic xperiencereveal the existence f afeminine igure n the unconscious' . .'Eros is associative,Logos isdiscrimination' . .Jung'sveryclose to me there.One mightexpressthe Agathe-Ulrich relationship s that between synthesizingndanalyticalhoughta: We've touchedon a whole lot of things 'd like to askyou about.For instance, sychology. t always irritated ou to be described sa 'psychological'writer.As a youngmanyouworked nexperimentalpsychology, and what you called psychologia hantasticadidn'tappeal to you. Surelybecause it was trying o do somethingverylike whatyou were trying o do, but from notherdirection?musil: What psychoanalysis id was to make it possibleto talkaboutsex (whichup to thenhad been left o theromantics nd theporno-graphers).That was its tremendous chievement, tremendous on-tribution o civilisation.Over againstthatit hardlymattersmuchhow right hetheorymayor maynot be.b: You havebeenpraisedforquiteextraordinary erceptionndescrib-ing sexual relationships,nd above all, because thisastoundspeople,fromthe woman's point of view, as in the storyThe PerfectingfaLove There's the adolescent homosexual relationship n YoungTorless.There'sthe eduction nd murder n the storyGrigia.Thereare all those seductionsand attemptedseductionsand the sexualmurder n TheMWQ.musil: Here I must interpolatethat despite anythingthat may bethought bout me I was alwaysmore concernedwithhumanbeingsthan with women as such. My love went always to an invisible



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A CONVERSATION WITH ROBERTMUSIL

imagethat bore withinmyself,nd what I actually xperiencedwasnot love but thespiritual laughter hat ivilizedpeople carryout insexual passion.b: We appreciate he ambiguityof that, incethe speaker s not HerrDr. Musil, but a fictitious irstpersonnonethelessintimately elatedto him.This sortofthing s one of themanyforms fdualityfoundthroughoutyourwork. What did you say is the fundamental ual-ity?musil: Rationality nd mysticism-thewopoles of theage we live in.I'm in the dubious position of having been a born soldier withmonkish nclinations, nding up as a monk with soldierly nclina-tionswho can't give up swearinga: Speakingof soldiers, here'ssomething 'd like to ask about: thoseterrifying refigurations f Nazi atrocites n Torless,which waswritteno longbefore he firstworldwar.How do youfeel boutthepropheticqualityof thatwritingmusil Everyone xperiences hesymbols fhisage. But it oftenhappensthat t's only afterwardshattheybecome intelligible o him.a: Surelythewriter s especially ensitive o them?musil: One mightdescribehimas themanwho's mostacutely wareofthe ndividual's rrevocable olitarinessn theworld,and of thesamesolitariness etweenall humanbeings.His relationshipo theworld sbest understoodby starting rom his opposite, the man with thefixed point A, the rational man in ratioid territory. his ratioidterritoryncludes, roughly speaking everything hat's susceptibleto being reducedto a scientificsystem. t's ruledby theconceptofsolidity.But on theway from Nature to themind one comes, as itwere,out ofa petrifiedoom containing collectionof minerals ndgoes into a hot-housefullof ndefinablemovement.To use the staticmethodthere allsfor a quite comical techniqueofqualification ndhypothesis, nd its complexityalone makes our morality ook ripefordecay. Take, for nstance, hestandardexample ofthe variationson thecommandment Thou shaltnot kill', frommurder to man-slaughter, he crimeof passion, duelling,capitalpunishment,ndsoon, to war, and if you look for a unifiedrationalformulaforit,you'll find t resembles sieve, n theuse ofwhich the holes are noless useful han thesolidwires.



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l6 THE transatlantic review

( nterviewerslaugh n sympathy ith the characteristicote on whichMusil has here nded.)a: And thea-ratioidterritorys theoppositeof this?musil: There thefacts, nd therelationshipsetweenthem, re infiniteand incalculable . . That's the writer'snative territory. here's noend to the unknownquantities . . the equations,and thepotentialanswers. The task is to discover ever new answers, onnections,constellations, ariables, o setup prototypes f processes, eductivemodels ofwhat mankind can be-to invent he interiorman. I hopetheseexamplesare clearenoughto excludeany thoughtof 'psycho-logical' methods.Psychology belongs to the ratioid territory. .Since I'm anything ut a sceptic, experimentedwith concepts ikeratioidand a-ratioid, nd subsequently it on the manifold relationbetweenemotionand truth,whichI've hinted t in TheMWQ.

b Psychologyagain.musil: Individualpsychologyand psychoanalysis re the unconscioushistoricalmeans of keepingthe balance with collectivity,which ison the ncreaseeverywhere. here's never been suchtender oncernfor the person, the precious Me. Of course religion used to dowhat it had to do in thatline, but then thatwas under the aegisofa moral code. Psychoanalysis as donean mmense, reallymmenseamountto make us glimpsesomething ypicalbehindthe destiniesof individuals.a: There's a manuscript ragmenthat nterestsme. It saysthat certainepisodes n the ifeoftwo lovers werenothing a smallvisiblepartofsomething lse,which did not eventuate.' Then it goes on: 'It wasspring.The air was like a net. Behind it was something hat made abulge in theweb, yetit could not breakthrough.They bothknewit and did not trust hemselves o speak of it.' One feels the tran-scendentalbulge, yetyou denythetranscendental.musil: Let's call it 'soul', withoutassumingthat there s such a thing.All one has to go on is what a persondoes.a: Aren't The MWQ and other works of yours,not leastyour playTheDreamersall about the distinction etween thepersonand hisactions?musil: The one person n oneself srecognisable nly byhisactions,notby the consciousmind. These actionspour out of the unconscious.



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ACONVERSATIONWITH ROBERTMUSIL 17

There are all sorts of influences,ven in normal life,such as love,jealousy, resentment,hat have the same effect s alcohol. From thepoint of view of the 'person' one is never responsiblefor one'sactions .. As Eckhart aid, 'Also in Christtherewas an outer andan innerman, and all thathe did concerning uterthingshe did asof the outer man, and meanwhile the inner man stood by in im-movable detachment.'a: You saidonce thatthe saints nd mysticsmightwell have acquittedMoosbrugger,the murderer.You said theywere all immoralists0musil: What are virtues o society re vices to the saint A good mandoesn't ift finger o make the world good, he doesn'tdo anythingat all to theworld,he merelydetacheshimself rom t.a: You mean,he lives n whatyou call the OtherCondition, nwhichthere'sno talent eft,only genius,and the passions disappear . .

musil: . . . leaving a kind of goodness thatresemblesprimordialfire.a: Whereas what mostpeople want is-?musil: Somethingthat'llhave the solitariness f genius but also theuniversalcomprehensibilityf thenightingale . .b: Didn't you once say there's110important dea thatstupidity an'tturn o account?musil: It can dressup in all truth's lothes.But truth as onlyone dressat a time, nd one road,and is alwaysat a disadvantage. he stupidityI was talking bout is no mentaldisease,yet t's the mostdangerousdisease themindsuffersrom, threat o life tself.b: In spiteofyour havingexplainedTheMWQ , there re criticswhoinsistyour conclusions re pessimistic.musil: On the contrary. make fun of all the dooms and declinesofthe West. In our days archetypalhuman dreams recomingtrue.There's no denyingthat these ancient dreams have come true ina way quite differentromwhatwas once expected.Baron Miinch-hausen's post-horn was more picturesque than mass-producedcannedmusic s. We've gained n terms freality nd lost n terms fthedream.b: Doesn't thistouch on Ulrich'sdilemma? He's a dreamer nd a manofreality.musil: A realistnever . . But if those archaic dreams,now they'vecome true,no longerhave quite the same faces,does it matter? t



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18 THE transatlantic review

means we need a new moralityto go with them,that's all. Wecan't make do with the old one. My novel is an attempt o offermaterial for such a new morality. It's an attemptat dissolvingsomething, hint at thesynthesisf something lse . . Science hadto rule out God, in orderperhaps-by ts own method to discoverhim. Supposing,now, thisungodlinesswere nothingbut theappro-priate way for thisage to find God? . . . This book is religious nagnostic erms. t'sexacting fme, I know,but I expect myworktobe read twice in detailand as a whole. A novel's main effect houldbe emotional. Ideas . . .there's specialdifficultyere . . ideascan'tbe presentedn a novel theway a philosopherwould present hem.In a novel they're lementsn a Gestalt, n organicpattern.b: People wonderto what extentUlrich s autobiographical, speciallysinceyouseveral imes onsideredwriting henovel nthefirstperson.

musil: That 'I' is not myself. . nor an inventedpersoneither. t's ashifting lend of both .. In otherwords, my intention s not totell either the suprapersonalor the impersonal truth . . nor topresentmy personalconvictions. treat the thingneitherfrom allsides (which is impossiblein a novel) nor one-sidedly,but fromvarious sidesthatbelong together.b: Now we come to theproblem of formand content, xterior ndinterior fa work ofart.musil It's a platitude hat heyconstituten indivisibleunity.But howtheydo so is somethingessknown about, in factto some extent tjust remains mystery. t thebeginning, hat's o saywhen I wroteTorless, he problem simplydidn't existforme. The principle letmyselfbe guided by was that of the straight ine as the shortestconnection etweentwo points.Say everythings shortlyspossible.Use no imagesthatdon't buildup the dea.b But that'snot theprinciple n whichyou wroteyoursecondbook,Unionsmusil: The road I decidedto taketherewas thatof the maximumoad,of the smallestpossible step, of the most gradual, imperceptibletransition. hat has a moralfunctionto displaythemoral spectrumwith ts constant ransitionromone thing o itsopposite.But therewas anotherprinciple oo, a decisiveone. I called it thatof motivatedsteps . . Make nothinghappen or: do nothing) hat sn't ofspiritual



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A CONVERSATION WITHROBERT MUSIL 19

value. In otherwords, do nothingcausal, do nothingmechanical.b: As a youngman,whenyouwroteTorless, ouhadn't readmuchandweren't underany literarynfluences?musil Hauptmann,who was veryfamouseven then,hadtoo little fa mind for my taste. I didn't understandStendhal and I didn'tknow Flaubert.But I did know Dostoyevsky, nd I flamedwith en-thusiasm orhim-incidentallywithout venwanting ogetto knowallhiswork. Young people are so odd Or perhaps t'sjustthatpeopleare altogether dd . . . The writers o whom I've had a specificallyliterary elationshipre Dostoyevsky,Flaubert,Hamsun, d'Annun-zio, among others.b How aboutphilosophy?Apartfromyourwork on Mach, apartfromyour interest n Husserl and Schelerwere you ever influencedbyBergson?

musil: I nevermanagedto readhim,becausemyattentionwas alwayscaught by details, articularly is notionofduree reatricea : And politicsmusil I am a malcontent.My discontentwithmyown country oundmildly ronicalexpressionn TheMWQ.a: We know you foundBerlinmentallyrefreshingy contrastwithVienna. But you alwayswentback to Vienna.musil: That citywas besieged by theTurksand bravelydefendedbythePoles. In the18thcenturyt was thegreatest f Italiancities. t isproudofitspastries,which come fromBohemia and Hungary.Andforcenturiesthas been demonstratinghefact hatone can producevery plendid ndevenprofound hingswithouthavinganycharacterwhatsoever.A countryforgeniusto flourishn, and thatwas prob-ablytheruinof t. n agrim side)The wayFreud,Adlerand Schoen-bergweretreated n theirnativecountry But thesortofintelligencethatwon't putup withcompromise s too annoyinglyndividualisticforthe menwho are always striking balance'. I alwaysheld alooffrompolitics.b: It's occasionallyobjected that no one has a right o do so, becausepolitics s everyone's oncern.musil: So is hygiene,but I've nevermade any public pronouncementon thatsubjecteither.To me writinga book seemsmoreimportantthanrulingan empire. Every significant ork of literature as the



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20 THE transatlantic review

capacity to overthrow all the beliefs held up to thatmoment.B The novel has been ina state fcrisis, pparently, orthirty ears rmore.What do you think ffiction'stendency o be like thepatienttalking o hisdoctor?musil: Why not like doctorsamong themselves, r at least like thedoctorexplaining hings ohispatient?Reading has ost tsestablishedsocial function. t has to some extentbecome a sortofvice, a 'wayofpassing hetime'.a: Didn't you once saythatstory-tellingas lost tssocial function?musil: It's not quiteso simpleas that.Communists ndnationalistsndCatholicsthoroughlynjoybeingtold stories. hat lostneedto listento story-tellingprings o lifeagain the momentyou have an es-tablishedideology. In fact,whereveryou have a subject.b: We haven't spoken yet of Rilke, who went to the same school asyourself,whom you wrote about at length and praised withoutqualificationmusil: With Rilke it wasn't that stonesor trees turned nto humanbeings,as they always have done whenever and whereverpoemshave been made, but thathumanbeingsalso turned nto things, rintonameless ntities,nd so took on theirultimatehumanity,witha namelessaura about it. One may say: in thatgreatwriter's enseof things verythings symbolicand-nothing is any ongermerelysymbolic.

b: The worldis shall we say?- symbolic.Can we saywritings a sym-bolic activity?musil: Writing'snot an activity,t'sa state.a: But yourown work isn'tonlya state, urely t's also a progress?musil: One man'svoyageof adventure hrough heyears1880onward.He travelsnot by any vehicle,but on the currents f thoughtandmemory.a: And now you're well out on thehigh seas. The fameyou knewwould come afteryou died is extending ll the time,and rapidly.Several of your works are already translated nto English. TheItalians and the Frenchhave begun translating ou and lecturingaboutyou. Criticsdiscussyourwork. Ph. D. theses re now writtenabout it. Universities nd American foundationsgive grantsforresearchntoyourposthumouspapers . .



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ACONVERSATION WITHROBERTMUSIL 21

musil (cuttinghisshort)The popularity njoyed by posthumouspapersdoubtlesshas somethingto do with readers'pardonableweaknessfora writerwho engagestheir ttention orthe ast time.b: After ll the frustrationnd bitterness,ren'tyou a littlepleased?musil (withan ambiguityll hisown): I'm temperamentally ngrateful.a: And specifically ngrateful orbeinginterviewed?We'd like to tellyou we aregrateful ortheopportunitymusil (rising):The interview s theart-form fourera.Don't you see,thecapitalisticallyelightfulharacteristicf an interviews this theintervieweedoes all thework and getsnothingfor t, whereastheintervieweractuallydoes nothing t all and is paid a fee all the same.(Withthis ittleirony,ightlyndgracefullyestowedn the wowhohavecopied own omany j his wordsthesubject j this nterview,he ccasionofthis xcursionnto n elusive ealmmovesoffntohisfastnessleaving

them as he has left ll whoknewhiswork ndhimselfwith senseoffinal mpenetrabilitynda searchalways or omethingeyondhehorizon.)A NOTE ON ROBERTMUSIL

Robert Musil (1880-1942) is the outsiderpar excellencea man bothinvoluntarilynd deliberately t a remove fromhis fellow-men.Hisprotagonistsrealways, ikehimself, eings part some ofthemgrotes-quely,pathologically o, some themheroically o whathe called 'theTrappistsof modern life'. That phrase s characteristic f his love ofintellectualhardship.All his work, and above all his last and mostimportant ook, The Man Without ualities is an experimentn pre-senting he interiorproblems,the real problems,of our time n termsof 'endlessperspectives' nd in thelightofhis senseofpossibility'.Hebelievedmankindto be on thefrontiers f some utterly ew way ofthinking nd feeling,some intenser, icher,more highly organizedformof living.Thereforehe was deeplyconcernedwith thenatureofgenius, swiththe ntuitusmysticusboth ofwhich offerglimpses f thatfuturewhen ifewill 'exact' in thesense ntendedbyThomas aKempis-which s also Musil' own sense.Inkeepingwith heambiguityndambivalenceprevailing hroughout iswork,themethodhe used stwofold now rational,ogical,now imagi-



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THE transatlantic review

native, ntuitive.An agnosticwho had not believed in God since theage of8,he once definedhisaim as 'shorteninghe distance o God'.Scientificallyrained s an engineer, nd as an experimental sychol-ogist,and an amateurmathematician, e wrote to a very arge extentaboutthemost elusive tates fmind.A solitary nd dedicatedman,hewas interested ot onlyin all that s solitary ut also in themassive, hetotal-not east as manifestedn thebehaviourofcrowds. In hisprivatelifehe was anti-bohemiannd somewhat ustere,witha cultofphysicalfitnesshatvergedon extravagance nd which was the causeofhisun-timelydeath; in his work the treatment f sexual experiencerangesthrough the depraved, the perverse,the revulsionsof puritanicaldisgust, nd themosttendersublimity,s well asevery ort fsymboliccomplexity.He is at once one of the most ruthlessly erious anddedicated nd one of thewittiestnd mostamusing fmodernEuropeanwriters. wo aspects fhis workthat rescarcely epresentedn what sso far available in translationre his exquisiteawarenessof landscapeand hismetaphysicalympathywithanimals a sickcat,a mouse on amountainside ndershellfire,nd, again and again,horses.Musil, who naturally houghtof himself s a Germanwriter,wasbornan Austrian, fGerman-Bohemian tock.He was intended or hearmy, but became an engineerand subsequently ook a degree inphilosophy.He then bandonedtheacademicworld,to become a free-lance writer.Afterlosinghisprivatemeans n the nflation, e becameacquaintedwith poverty,and in his last years, n exile, was almostdestitute, ependenton the generosity f a few friends nd admirers.His circlewas alwayssmall,his habits loof and solitary.He was an onlychild, nd therewereno children f hismarriage.At his death heworldseemedto have forgotten im.Musil's first ovel, YoungTorlesswas a considerable uccess, nd theacclaim accorded it on its publication n 1906 was what made himdecide against careeras a professional hilosopher.His secondwork,Unions,1911,was a small volume containing wo long stories at oncehermeneuticMusil's own word forthem,many years ater)and her-metic the criticswere disconcerted. is reputationwas however nowsuchthathe was invitedto join theeditorial taff f a leadingliteraryjournal, Die Neue Rundschau in Berlin, where he remained untilthe outbreakof war in 1914. He servedas an officern theAustrian



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23CONVERSATION WITHROBERTMUSIL

army,on the Italian front, nd receivedseveralhigh decorationsforgallantrynd distinguishedervice(whichto himwere, ikehis nheritedtitleofnoblesse e robe irrelevantpomps and vanities o be passedoverin silence; nor does he seem to have attachedany importanceto theliterary rizesbestowed on him). After1918 he had an appointmentfirstn the AustrianForeign Ministry, hen n theWar Ministry, achthe source of satiricalobservations n his last novel. Besides writingdramatic riticism nd continuing o publishoccasionalessays,he nowbegan a series of experiments n the greatnovel thathad been hismainprojectsinceboyhood and which was to occupy him evermoreexclusively ortherestof hislife.All the other works of hismaturityare indirect ontributions o its development. ndeed he himself aidthat hekeyto it was inhisdrama,The Dreamers. hisplaywas publish-ed in 1921 it was notperformed ntil1929andthenonlyforonenight,as a result f its author'soutragedprotest t the ndiscriminateuttingand violation ofhis exacting requirements.n 1924 a secondplay waspublished,the farce Vincent nd theLady whose FriendswereMen ofDistinction,nd was givenproductions n Berlin, Vienna, and Prague.Both theseplayshave been produced several times n recentyears, nGermanyand in Vienna, Vincent n a radio adaptationby the poetIngeborgBachmann. Likewise in 1924 a volume of storiesappeared,ThreeWomen, wo ofthem,ThePortugueseadyand Grigia,had beenpublished n separatevolumes the previousyear. Apart fromcriticalessaystoo numerous to listhere,the rest of Musil's publicationsfallinto two groups. One consists f the memorial address n honour ofRilke, 1927; a small collection of sketches nd impressions ntitledLiterary emainsofa LivingMan 193 ; a lecture On Stupidity1937;and, in the same year, a collection of aphorisms, ottings.he otherconsists f thegreatphilosophicalnovel foreverunfinished, he ManWithout ualities.GrownoutofMusil'sfragmentaryovels ofthe twenties,ndhavingundergoneradicalchangesof conceptionand an immense amount ofrewriting,he first olume of thismajorworkwas finally ublished n1930. (To thiscorrespond he first wo volumes of theEnglishtrans-lation.) Volume II was published n 1933,at thevery time the Naziscame to power. Musil leftGermany;hisnotes at thetime revealhowclearlyhe saw whatwas happening and indeed he had prophetically



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24 THE TRANSATLANTICREVIEW

delineated hepsychic orces twork, n his novel Torless at the begin-ningofthecentury. or him personally he general European disasterhad an ironicaltwist: at theverymoment when his literary riumphseemedachieved,he was drivenback,byhisown inabilityocompromi-se politically r in anyotherway, into a small German-speaking erri-torywitha smallreadingpublic. And even that was for a shorttime.When theNazis invaded Austria n 1938,he went ntovoluntaryxiletemporarilyn Italy,which he had oftenvisited,and thenfinally oSwitzerland.There, n obscurity, e worked at the continuation f thebook towardswhichhis whole life nd all hiswritinghad beenleading.A thirdvolume, continuingBook II, with ts sub-titlento theMillen-niumhe had withdrawn rom hepress n orderto revise nd extend t,and after heoutbreakof thesecond worldwar,an ageingmanwithnomore hope of worldly success,he went on, perfectionists he was,revising, laborating, nd expanding.What was left this suddendeathin 1942 s not a novel cutoff n theway that, ay,TheIvoryTower s,orLucienLeuwen, but a visionaryprogressof quite anotherkind. Thetantalisingmass of posthumousmaterial we are leftwith, the draftsand plansandfragments,ow alternative o eachother,now cancellingeach otherout, and to a large extentdatingback to theperiod of thebook's inception n about 1920,bearswitness o the inexorabledevo-tion with which Musil ceaselessly truggled, xperimented, ejected,andworked hisway alwayson to intenserclarity,withan aspiration tonce so single-minded nd so ironical as to exclude the thoughtoftragedy.The work was like a greatriver. In the last, posthumouschapters, he flowingwas ever more slowly and calmly as it openedout into that millennial tateof mind which Musil called 'the sea ofimmobility' byitsverynature twas without n end.

The Marvelous Attic | by William WeaverA Report n Rome's Minor MuseumsI have a friendwho collects oos. The firstimehe wenttoParis,beforetaking look at the Louvre or Notre-Dame,he headed straight ortheJardindes Plantes. He knows how to say 'Where is the sloth?' in

Interview Musil

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