hutchison effect scientists

AMERICAN ANTIGRAVITY PAGE 1


By Tim Ventura & Harold Berndt, June 29th, 2007

For three years now, Harold Berndt has been on the trail of something big - and he may have finally found it: In early 2006, he captured the first new footage of the classic Hutchison Effect, with video that touched off a firestorm of controversy on the internet. We join Harold to talk about his experiences hunting UFO's and other strange phenomenon, and for the first time he reveals the

mystery behind the secretive annual Mt. Shasta retreat...

AAG: Everybody has that one experience that opens them up to the unknown, and I'm wondering

what that inspiration was for you. What first got you interested in UFO's?

Berndt: On the surface you would think this should be a fairly easy question to answer. I guess

I've always thought about the ET/UFO phenomenon (as most people do, even if they don't publicly

admit it) as it's just such a fascinating topic. But the one experience that seemed to fully "awaken

me" to become this pro-active was a sighting I witnessed in August of 2004. After that sighting, I

became determined to find answers... and at first, I decided to look for an Earth bound answer as I

had heard about specialized and secret satellite arrays and other "stuff" we have up there. But

after receiving a number of "this isn't ours" responses, I began to check UFO reports to see if I

might come across a similar sighting. This research took me to some pretty far out sources with

many different ideas and I soon realized I was in the middle of a kind of "swamp-gas" pool of

everything from the kooky, silly and downright weird views on the phenomena to some of the

most compelling evidence and testimony available. I found very early on that what I was getting

into was going to require a great deal of discernment and caution as it's my opinion (as well as

many others) that this is one of the most (if not thee most) controversial, misinformed and

misunderstood topics on the planet today. I also soon realized I was "growing-up" in many


Mt. Shasta: Dr. Steven Greer (left) and Harold

Berndt on retreat at the Mt. Shasta UFO-gathering.

respects as I slowly came to realize this entire other "world" had been taking place while I was so

blissfully naive and unaware.

AAG: Now it's logical that if you're studying

UFO's you'd run across Disclosure Project, but

you've gone even further and become the

Vancouver area representative for the project.

I'm wondering what you saw in this project

that really sold you on it, and what it means to

be the area representative?

Berndt: You know, its one thing to head up

and lead a worthy cause... and it's another to

actually have the ability, talent and resolve to

see it through. What I found with DP, CSETI and

the other efforts, was a founder who not only

had above reproach credentials... but an

almost "born" ability to convey the message.

This is paramount in any worthy cause if it's to

be successful. I found and felt with Dr. Steven

Greer, a true, caring and more than able

individual. Disclosure is a grass roots effort and

as such, we are a non profit society with no

corporate or sponsored funding and we rely

heavily on volunteers and donations. I feel that

I'm not only a rep for Disclosure... but I'm a rep

for truth and I'm very proud and honored to be

a part of this effort!

AAG: I've heard that the Disclosure Project's

long awaited Washington DC presentation

happened only days before September 11th,

and the turmoil that followed has shifted

public attention towards more immediate

issues like global terrorism. Do you think

Disclosure took a hit due to timing, and as our

world slowly returns to normal, will Disclosure

once again build momentum?

Berndt: Actually, the DC conference was May 11, 2001 but the real headway and push for

congressional hearings was to come in the wake of the conference in the following months. Then

the tragic events of 9-11 happened and it seemed that causes like DP were relegated to the back

burner with the focus becoming absorbed in terrorism, who the next enemy might be, fear based

propaganda and so on... The country needed to grieve and heal and this is understandable. The

question is and looms larger -every day- with A-list celebrities like Rosie and Charlie Sheen


The “Drone”: This 2007 photo is the

latest fad in over 50 years of UFO reports.

speaking up as well as the countless scientists and specialists, all of whom are asking (if not

demanding) further independent investigations on 9-11. We could do a complete additional article

on this issue alone... but I'll leave it at that.

AAG: Hundreds of thousands of UFO sightings since the 50's make it a bona-fide phenomenon,

but it's been going on long enough without a definitive explanation that it's also become a culture,

and some would say a religion as well. Different storytellers talk about alien underground bases in

the desert, reverse-engineered government UFO's, abductions of thousands of people, and much

more...I'm wondering in your view what we know about UFO's, versus what we only think we know.

Berndt: Good Question... It's my personal analysis that we are being visited and have been from

perhaps the beginning (whenever that may have been). After you get past this important first step,

the fork in yellow brick road takes off in a series of

detours, off ramps and dead ends and negotiating the

road to the truth requires a tremendous amount of

discernment and discipline. The discipline factor (for me

anyway) involves being acutely aware of any residual

anthropocentric thoughts I may let slip through in

relation to the phenomenon. In reality, many aspects of

this phenomenon could, quite literally, be beyond the

comprehension of the human mind. This is why we

concentrate on the one common denominator that all

intelligent beings have in relation to each other... pure

unbound consciousness. I believe this is the foundation

we all must start from or we risk building a fragile

structure of pseudo-knowledge on top.

AAG: Is it enough simply to say that we know something is going on? I'm wondering if maybe we

don't need to know the whole story: only that something's happening and the best efforts by the

government that we know of included 3 men and a filing cabinet in project Blue Book. What are

your thoughts on something like a modern-day bluebook effort, perhaps including modern data-

mining techniques & potentially even open-sourcing the project to the public?

Berndt: Of course, it's now well known that Blue Book was a ruse... a kind of public pacifier and

never was an honest attempt at investigating the truth behind the phenomenon. In fact, J. Allen

Hynek who was placed as the head of this operation, later became a staunch believer and spoke

openly & honestly of his knowledge which is quite compelling considering he was an active

debunker in the beginning. Any forum for opening a dialogue and exposing the truth is paramount

in a complex effort like this. I believe the public must become pro-active in these issues, however,

it's going to take a collective paradigm shift to accomplish this. Too many people are satisfied as

long as they have their comforts and conveniences and it isn't until the apple cart is upset that

alerts the vast majority of the population to sit up a take notice. I have however noticed a subtle

change in attitudes with some of today's openly discussed issues such as the environment &

global warming, the "occupation" of Iraq and the tiring barrage of fear peddling that's becoming all

too obvious. I'm hopeful this trend of awakening will continue and evolve.


AAG: Speaking of which, I'm wondering if the bureaucracy that you deal with in Canada has the

same approach as down here in the states. These days, I think a lot of Americans feel that our

government is just plain incapable of telling the truth on any subject, and maybe that UFO's just

fall victim to the same cover-ups that happened with Monica Lewinsky and Halliburton. Now I

know that Disclosure has been pushing immunity from prosecution as a legal method for

encouraging whistleblowing, and I'm wondering what your thoughts are regarding this as a legal

tool for finding the truth.

Berndt: I believe our role in disclosure to be two fold. The initial focus was and is to create an

open forum for exposing the truth. Of course the reality is, disclosure could come in ways we

haven't anticipated... or worse, in ways we have and it's disclosure's work as well as that of our

parallel group CSETI to develop an understanding of the implications that may arise from

manipulated disclosure for specific agendas such as weoponizing space and a massive military

funding campaign should ET attack! In this event, our work will be one of education as a resource

to further the understanding of why this is happening and what we can do to help limit the

damage that results. Perhaps an online resource clearly identifying some of the many ways

disclosure may come as well as the agendas behind it. People need to wake up and understand

that "not all that glitters is gold" and when the eventual attempt at a pseudo-disclosure happens...

we need to have our antenna up. Regarding the legal ramifications, Dr. Greer makes an excellent

point as it's his opinion and I completely agree, that any agreements or gag orders any witness has

been place under are unconstitutional and therefore illegal and unenforceable. Many of our

witnesses have already bravely come forward believing they have a patriotic duty under those

wise and timeless words that start with "We the People"... Of course Congressional Hearings

would remove any ambiguity in this regard and we do have many more witnesses ready to come

forward under this protection.

AAG: On the other hand, if there is a conspiracy covering up UFO's like many people seem to

believe, is it possible that some kind of immunity is exactly what they're waiting for to come

forward? I mean, Nick Cook has written about the Air Force strong-arming witnesses at the site of

a stealth fighter crash-site, and I can't help but wonder how many careers or even lives have been

sacrificed in the sake of secrecy if any of this conspiracy talk is true. Wouldn't that in itself be

enough to warrant some kind of independent commission?

Berndt: You'd think so... wouldn't you? I can't help but put myself in the position of some of

these marginalized and/or eliminated individuals... and there is just too much evidence of lives

ruined or removed to protect information and secrets known by these people. To know that this

type of control was in fact used during the cold war etc... and to not consider that this would be a

"given" modus operandi in the covert world of black projects and especially the UFO/ETI

phenomenon... is in my opinion extremely naive.

AAG: I'd like to ask if you know what current trends are for the Disclosure Project. I mean, any

news about new government whisteblowers coming forward, and any rumors about another

presentation in Washington DC to build up that political lobby?


Dr. Steven Greer: Shown speaking about

close encounters at Mt. Shasta in mid-2006.

Berndt: I've been involved with Disclosure (and

related interests) for just about 3 years now and it

has become increasingly clear that disclosure just

may come in a form or at a time that we have

absolutely no control over. The initial focus for

disclosure's initiative was from a grass-roots level

with reps from all over the world holding

information presentations and getting the "word

out" as best as they can. Being a non profit society,

we rely quite heavily on volunteers and

presentations to give the general public enough

information so they can then perform their own due

diligence for themselves. I think it's quite possible

that we (humans) are so wrapped up in some of the

efforts and perceived successes (2001 Washington

conference as an example), that we forget that if ET,

(let's say... a more advance consciousness - et al)

wanted us to definitively know they are here... I think

I can safely say that within no time at all... the world

would be given the evidence "they need". I'm also

starting to believe that disclosure is taking it's

natural course... that, other than a few variables, the

plan has been in the works for a "little while" now.

And if you've been keeping up with some of the new

people speaking up such as Canada's former

Minister of Defense the Hon. Paul Hellyer and

others... and the recent increase in sightings around

the world which are also getting main stream media

attention... we could actually be witnessing the

beginning of the "summit climb" of disclosure in

action, but more like watching the hour-hand rather

than the second-hand of a clock. There is a growing

impatience as well as a literal exhaustion also taking

place as some of the long timers and those who

have dedicated their lives to eking out the truth are

hitting a kind of wall and for "some", the problem

may be akin to watching paint dry! However, at least

with paint drying, we have past experience to let us

know "it will dry". I bet the first person to ever use

paint had many moments of suspense and perhaps

frustration until the paint started showing signs of

drying. And once the drying starts... the speed of

curing picks up exponentially. It just may turn out

that rather than Mr. Disclosure going to

Washington... we could see Washington (et al)


coming to the disclosure community for help and council when they realize they are both not

equipped as well as not ready to Govern a public who among other emotional responses... just

may be getting ready for a lynching once they know the truth. I don't think we will get through this

without the revelation that the powers that be have had the proverbial "shields-up" on this topic

since before The Duke was a cowboy. Metaphorically speaking, we could have quite a crop of

daisies spring up at that time!

AAG: Now for the last couple of years, you've accompanied Disclosure Project founder Dr. Steven

Greer on annual trips to Mt. Shasta, right? I understand that it's a way for the Disclosure

Community to connect, and that it's a region with a fair number of UFO sightings, so you're able to

mingle, compare notes, and maybe even witness the unexplained. Can you tell me about these

trips?

Berndt: Actually, it's our CSETI team which conducts the field and contact work. We are

breaking new ground here with some of the efforts and initiatives we have undertaken guided by

Dr. Greer's invaluable leadership. Many others are naively calling for undeniable contact and

subsequent disclosure "right bloody now"... but I can see a scenario where if undeniable contact

was to happen (and for some experienced people... if you ask them, it already has) and proper

protocols and etiquette had not been established... it could be quite a mess. Of course... until we

are prepared... I do not think a true world wide contact and disclosure will happen... Our society

adheres to a learned principal which basically dictates that once the "ability to perform" has been

established... then responsibility and reward follows. As just one of a multitude of possibilities,

what if we are dealing with an intelligence that allows everyone a (true) even playing field from

the get-go (what a concept). Imagine giving someone you don't know, the responsibility as the

head chef at an eatery you may own. This person has no references, no practical experience but

they say they know they can do it because for years they have been preparing the same types of

foods for their village. In our society I'm sure this person would be treated respectfully while at

the same time being politely shown the door. Now, imagine an advanced society that has the

ability to "sense" the sincerity (or lack there-of) in a person. At least the employer would "know"

this person believes in their ability. Now imagine if even further extrasensory abilities went into

play here! So, in many ways, calling for and even demanding disclosure, (forcing without proper

preparation), just may be similar to ancient tribes people trying to relate to today's humans where

much misunderstanding and even suspicions is likely to manifest. Obviously this could have an

impeding or devastating effect on laying a healthy foundation in this early relationship.

One of the first principals I became acutely aware of on my first expedition to Mt. Shasta comes

from a very functional and healthy attitude of "respect". Much like many aboriginal peoples have

for every aspect of their lives. I found myself actually being conscious of the plant and insect life

below my feet and once I became aware... I couldn't help but side-step "when possible and safe"

which to me is a healthy balance of respect for all of life including myself (E.g.: I wouldn't side step

a bug or plant should the alternative foot hold have me possibly going over a cliff). In many ways,

we are very much in our infancy as we are still learning what seems to work and what doesn't

seem to work... we're adopting new approaches and discarding others... basically, (IMHO) we are

really only now starting to learn how to "shake our rattle". It is imperative that we also discard

our old anthropocentric mindsets. Of course the first step is to drop our individual as well as


Planning Period: Harold Berndt and Steven Greer

discussing Disclosure strategy for the upcoming year.

collective egos to create a clean canvas so we can actually become aware of this and other

human traits and paradigms which hold us back. I did not really know what to expect on my first

trip to Mt. Shasta but what I found went way beyond anything I could have expected. I met and

now know CSETI members form almost every

walk of life. On my first trip I met construction

workers, pilots, short order cooks,

astronomers, retail clerks, a number of MD's,

aerospace engineers, Nasa employees all

committed to furthering their understanding

and how to initiate and conduct diplomatic

contact with our visitors. When we break down

all the components that make up our species, I

believe at the core of our existence (and

probably the most important building block we

start with, is our consciousness) and that we

are really all the same and equal in this regard.

It could quite likely be that all the labels,

achievements & failures etc (titles, PhD's,

wealth, poverty, oppression etc...) that we

acknowledge as humans and could be

completely unique to our species, really means

absolutely squat from a cosmological

viewpoint. If that's the case... just what

common denominator will we then have to

interact with another species who may have a

completely "different" set of values, standards

and physics? With this understanding, we

attempt to initiate contact using a combination

of meditation and peaceful thought processes

in combination with nuts and bolts equipment

like magnetometers, lasers & other recording

devices. The later helps corroborate what we

may be experiencing in the etheric or less than

physical plane as well as the possible

(physical) materialization or appearance of

craft or otherwise. This might sound like a

bunch of new-age rhetoric and/or fluff and

there was a time I would have squirmed in my

seat with what now is so much a part of my

life... but that's maturing and growth... isn't it!

AAG: Have you seen anything at Mt. Shasta? The number of sightings reported annually in the US

is pretty large, but still tiny compared to the population, so if not it makes sense. However, with

that many people hoping to spot a UFO in one place, I'd hope that you'd have a sighting story. On

that note - any other fun or exciting events happen on these trips?


Berndt: Earlier this year, a group of senior CSETI members, disclosure witnesses and others got

together to relate and share past experiences... some stories new and some old. I was scheduled

to attend this week long event however, work and other immediate issues prevented me form

attending. None the less, the substance of that week is being transcribed and a book will be

written focusing on "The CSETI Experience". I would encourage anyone truly interested in our work

to watch for this book. Of course there is nothing... and I mean NOTHING that compares to actual

first hand experience. What awoke me was the sighting I described earlier but I have had

"experiences" all my life including some repetitive and very lucid "dreams" as a child. Perhaps

during a future article we can discuss some of these experiences but for now I will focus on the

question at hand. Actually, most new people who come out to our field work anticipate seeing

something physical. Unfortunately, we do have many close aerial (and ground based) sightings

during our work, but for the most part, these are our very own Military, Air Force and "others"? Dr.

Greer is definitely on the radar scope of these and other government departments and it's pretty

well known that occasionally, a proverbial shot across the bow is experienced by the group. And

it's this very presence and threat that prevents a safe environment for open sightings. We've shot

at them before and for some perplexing reason we will do it again so the sightings that have taken

place over the years, I would imagine, are very carefully considered before being carried out. That

being said, my first year at Mt. Shasta provided us with an incredible and very majestic "fly over"

as I will explain. It was cold... very cold and it was also after midnight and we were just wrapping

things up for the evening. We were standing in a circle and I was facing East with my back directly

to the West. Like I said, it was cold (40-45F degrees). Even at the beginning of September in

Northern California, when you are 6-7,000 feet up on the side of a mountain... well... brrrrr! I had

my face buried in my chest under my turtle neck. I was blowing warm air into my upper torso area

when I heard Dr. Greer say something like "Oh my God" and then gasps by others. I quickly (I mean

quickly) lifted my head just in time to see the remaining trajectory of two parallel and bright

golden "arrow-head" shaped points of light about half a pinky finger nail in size at arms length.

Behind these "craft" were two very distinct and "structured" plasma-like trails of light. I'm not sure

how high these craft were but they appeared to be at a much, much higher altitude than say a

cruising airliner. If you've ever seen a super-sonic jet traverse the sky... it's quite impressive but

very easily followed and what I saw that evening has left an indelible impression which doesn't

even come nano-close to the later. Whatever these two objects were, they traversed the entire

sky, horizon to horizon within 10-15+/- seconds... it was so quick that I had to virtually perform

contortions to see the balance of the event and I almost fell backwards as I was leaning back and

twisting at the same time. When it was over... our group just stood there dumbfounded and

exhilarated at the same time. Unfortunately for them, there were a handful of people out of

approximately 40 of us that were doing the same thing I was (blowing warm air etc...) and because

it was so quick... they missed it. But those who witnessed this will most likely never forget it. After

this sighting, I kept checking local papers and media (when I had time) as I thought someone else

outside of our group surely must have seen this... someone in town or the area but I didn't see any

reference to it and it was, in fact, late (after midnight). But I kept checking UFO reports from

various sources and one day... BINGO!.. I found a report in which the person, just a couple of

months before our sighting, and in another area of California, described a sighting which was

almost identical to what we witnessed. I immediately sent the description and graphic image down

to the CSETI coordinator, Debbie Foch, who reported back to me that yes... the description and

graphic sure does look like what we witnessed. (Tim... I have attached this report and graphic if

you want to include it.)


Long Night: A tired Harold adjusting a sandal after a very long night of UFO-hunting at Mt. Shasta.

AAG: I understand your son Bryan went along on this last outing - did he get a lot out of it, or

does a lot of meaning in the experience come from your connections & activism in the UFO

community?

Berndt: My older son Bryan is probably a good example of that sect of people who are very rigid

and require empirical evidence which is obviously based within our (human's) model of known

physics and science. The problem with this is... the individual holding this standard is inadvertently

looking for (or perhaps only prepared to "see") nothing more than the equivalent of... well... of

"US"! In other words... this person is expecting to find evidence of advanced beings who still listen

to simple radio signals, pop a Bud and watch the latest game of the tube! For those that have not

been fortunate enough to have had a sighting or other profound experience, they are left with the

current accumulation of evidence we do have (which is substantial). However, most people have

lives to lead and are not prepared or motivated

sufficiently to dive deep enough into our pool

of evidence and/or remain in the water long

enough to start to understand and/or piece

together the bigger picture. And then there is

the dis and mis-information infused

everywhere within the phenomenon which

takes people off the true track and in some

cases... simply leads them all the way down

the wrong road. I hope you don't get the wrong

idea... I don't claim to know exactly what we

are dealing with here or whether or not I even

possess the capacity to come close to

understanding. But I have conducted enough

research and field work, combined with some

of my own sightings and experiences to have a

pretty good idea what we are NOT dealing

with. And it sure isn't a situation where we

need the "Fresh Prince" and the President to

save us from the Alien menace. Only in

Hollywood! I'm hoping to take my younger son,

Michael with me on a future expedition. Mike,

as far as I know, doesn't adhere to the same

rigid "text-book" protocol that Bryan does, and

I know he would like to come and he just may

experience the trip from a different view point.

AAG: Is the annual Mt. Shasta Trip an event that most people would benefit from? I should ask

how they can learn more or get involved if it's something their interested in.

Berndt: I think I've covered some of this above but for those that would like to get involved or

explore the topic closer... it's really not that difficult. I think the most difficult part is to actually


Paranormal Legend: Inventor John Hutchison at

his lab during AAG-filming with Berndt in mid-2005.

make a decision and commit to seeing it through. After all, we are not talking about a leisurely trip

to Vegas or Hawaii here... There is not much free time, that is... if you want to get enough rest, as

we are busy with daily workshops and discussions, then dinner and then back up the mountain

until 1-2AM. That being said, those that are interested can simply visit www.cseti.org and all the

information, requirements and applications are available there. I can say this without hesitation...

those that come and remain open minded, put in an honest effort (and it does take effort) and see

the week through... without exception usually say at the end that it not only had one of the biggest

impacts on them but that they felt it would change their lives forever. At the absolute very least...

(and the coldness of late evening aside)... sitting under the stars in an area with absolutely no light

noise, with wonderful people and incredible conversation, in itself is well worth the trip. And, in

addition to Dr. Greer's vast night sky knowledge, we usually have other experts and astronomers

in the group who are more than open to gracing us with their expertise and experience. Being a

Realtor for over 20 years now, I have spent thousands of dollars to attend motivational and life

skills workshops related to my business and I have not gotten a fraction of the value I feel I have

gotten from the CSETI work and training.

AAG: I'd like to change gears a bit, as another

area that you've really done some great work

in is supporting & documenting the recent

research of weird-science legend John

Hutchison. What can you tell me about him as

a person, and what are your thoughts on his

research?

Berndt: I contacted John very early in my

research as he's just a stones throw from me

over the bridge in New Westminster BC. John

was very open and gracious and was more

than willing to allow me into his world. And it's

quite a world I don't mind saying. Without any

real formal education, John is more of an

intuitive tinkerer than a text book physicist but

he also comes across as a very intelligent,

gracious and quiet man. I guess most people

have a hard time getting past his eccentricities

and other aspects which sets him apart making

it hard for some to open up enough to see

beyond the overtly obvious (and not so

obvious) and get to the "heart" of the man...

which is a big & compassionate one at that!

AAG: Hutchison's had many people with cameras come to visit, but you're one of the very few

who's actually seen the true, "classic" Hutchison-Effect up-close and in-person. What can you tell

me about the event that you filmed last year with a rack of equipment slamming itself into a wall?


The Effect: One of Hutchison’s many deformed

samples of metals warped by the Hutchison Effect.

Berndt: It literally almost blew me away! Quite frankly, I didn't know what to expect when John

called me asking if I would like to come over and video-tape the Hutchison Effect in action. John

previously had "set-up" for National Geographic's TV show as they were there taping for an up-

coming special. I was also a little concerned that John was actively experimenting again as the

City of New Westminster, after numerous complaints from neighbors that ceramic plates were

flying off their counters, noises and creaking sounds could be heard and other anomalous events

happening. What the reader may not know... is that because of circumstances and various "lab-

raiding" by ???... John now had his lab and every bit of his equipment, metal samples and living

quarters all housed within a standard 700 square foot (+/-) one bedroom apartment. And the

experimenting wasn't John's only problem with the city. After all, he had thousands of pounds of

science and physics gear, a naval and gun collection, radar scopes, Tesla coils & frequency

generators and to get a good idea of what the inside looks like... one just has to stroll by his

balcony which has become a kind of weird tourist attraction in the City. When the City realized

who this mad scientist really was... instead of continuing the plan to rid the town of John...

engineers were sent out to determine if the apartment was safe and if not, what type of

reinforcement and support structure would be needed. The solution served to stave off eviction

but it also added to the crapped quarters he lived within as there are support cables and chains

everywhere. These support cables have been suspected by a few with an untrained eye to be a

part of a dastardly scheme to hoax and fake some of the experiments he conducts including the

Hutchison Effect itself. Witnessing it for yourself aside, one needs only look at the metal samples

and the reams and reams of government documents and correspondence to put that suspicion to

rest definitively.

AAG: You're also one of the few people who's

seen John's metal-samples up close, and I'm

wondering if you could describe them a bit for

me? Do they appear to be authentic, and what

are your thoughts after seeing pieces of metal

warped so dramatically?

Berndt: Without question, even with my

limited experience, these metal samples have

obviously undergone some type of

unconventional transformation. They have also

been analyzed and it's been determined what

didn't happen to them. The only conventional

explanation for the warping, twisting and the

type of "stalactite-stalagmite" separation

would be a process involving massive amounts

of heat. Of course these samples were not

subjected to heat and the transformation took

place with the samples and the environment

being at or about room/lab temperature.

Again... if it were a hoax, I can't imagine all the

various government agencies and people


Vacuum Tube: A closeup of the tube that started

emitting a breakdown noise just before the “event”.

taking such an interest as well as falling for the equivalent of the proverbial "snake-oil salesman".

AAG: Now we spoke only days after you filmed this, and you'd mentioned that you'd been

focused on a vacuum-tube that changed pitch - giving off a chaotic, choppy buzz almost like it was

breaking down right before this event happened, right? Also, you said that there was static in the

room, and that when you mentioned this to John he indicated that this often happens before the

onset of the effect, right?

Berndt: You have to understand... this was

the first time I had ever been in a situation like

this. I was also very conscious of the fact that

not too many people have been fortunate

enough to be right there, with camera running

should just the right frequency and high

voltage combination among many other

variables all come together to produce an

"event". We were well into the experiment and

taping and John was busy taking

measurements and adjusting various

components in the other room. I believe it was

just a couple of minutes prior to the event

where you can hear me make a comment that I

was feeling static in the air and around me. In

reality, it was quite un-nerving but I kept my

composure even though all the hair on my

body was at attention. The target area (where

the bulk of the HE was being directed) was

fairly undefined so I was panning and zooming and just as I zoomed in on a spark-gap tube, there

was a momentary increase in static while at the same time I heard some type of whooshing sound.

As I do when I'm video taping the sky out in the field, I had one eye trained thru the view finder and

the other observing the surrounding area when I witnessed an apparatus (directly above the tube I

was focusing on) which supported some very heavy equipment stacked on perhaps a 4' X 8' re-

enforced platform suspended from the ceiling. This weighed well over 1,000 pounds (maybe 1,500)

and what I saw was quite incredible. The entire apparatus "jumped" briefly and then began to

sway from side to side slightly. By the time John made his way from the far side of the apt/lab, the

swaying had slowed to maybe 1/2 to 1 inch in each direction which John also saw. As exciting as

this was... there was legitimate concern for the second floor apartment's structure so John

immediately shut it down... but we had it... we had it on tape even if I almost missed it with my

impatient panning and zooming.

AAG: Being a rational man, and familiar with the paranormal (which also describes John's

apartment on a good day), are you now convinced that the Hutchison Effect is for real? I still hear

people complain about stage props and trickery despite all the evidence over the last 20 years, but

as somebody who's been there I'm wondering what you believe?


The Balcony: Harold shown looking in disbelief at

Hutchison’s famously crowded balcony/storage area.

Berndt: Personally, my observation is that for

most advances and innovations (if you ask the

inventor for an honest answer) they will tell

you that a "thought, dream or vision" preceded

the finding, experiment or invention. Sure...

there have been many "bench-built" devices

through trial, error and endless, mile long

equations. But there have been an equal or

better number of these intuitive successes. I

came into John's life at a time when most of

John's work was now a memory and most

likely documented in a filing cabinet at the

Pentagon with his name on it. I found that most

of the critics just simply do not know from

where they speak. Many of these accusations

of props, cables and strings come from people

who, first of all... are more than skeptics and

are actually looking to debunk John's work.

Whether they are debunkers or otherwise,

many have confused some of the support

structure in John's apartment for staged props

etc.. I know of a piece of video where people

cried foul after seeing a "string" attached to a

toy UFO John was levitating. What they don't

know is that the toy ran free from this "string"

as it was in actual fact, a high voltage wire

delivering a charge to the immediate area of

the toy. Much like the high voltage wire you

and I have used in "Lifter" or electrogravitic

craft experiments applying the Biefeld-Brown

effect. To the layperson, these wires could also

be construed as "props". But you and I both

know (as well as hundreds of replicators all

over the world) that this just isn't so.

AAG: I understand John has a local protege as well - a younger fellow named Adrien Stone - and

he's also reporting some Hutchison-like Effects. I think we've both met Adrien, but you know him

much better than I, and I'm wondering what you can tell me about him and how his research is

progressing?

Berndt: Adrien was a neighbor of John's just one floor down in the same apartment building and

this is where I met him. From what I can see, Adrien is a very intelligent and open minded person


Halina Kacicki: John Hutchison’s new bride, which

precipitated a move for John to Arizona in mid-07.

who has tried to be a source of support for John. When I met Adrien he was working on a

replication on the Arc of the Covenant experiment which John conducted for Blue Book Films on

location in Richmond BC at a make shift lab. John's hypothesis on the Arc in a nut shell is that it

was basically a giant capacitor and when carried by soldiers thru the dry desert sands, a massive

charge built up and stored itself within the gold laden walls of the Arc and could then be released

similar to lightning bolts which, as written, wiped out vast armies of soldiers. Today Adrien now

lives in Surrey and to be honest, I'm not sure what the status is in their relationship or how his

research is progressing. I do believe he is still busy replicating some of John's work as well as his

own.

AAG: John's life has been a bit chaotic lately: he's been talking about moving, chatting with

Hollywood producers, and just got married down in Arizona, if I remember correctly. Do you think

this mean's he'll slow down a bit on the work for a while, or quit doing his experiments altogether?

Berndt: John is feeling pretty burned out.

This is no secret as he openly talks about this.

If I were in John’s position, I might not have

had the staying power he has mustered to this

day. It's also no secret that there are a few

people along the way who managed to parlay

some of the findings John was directly

responsible for into vast empires of money and

wealth. At this point in his life, it's all been

done! John's work has been taken into the

basements of black-op labs and exploited (I'm

sure) into everything from weapon applications

to propulsion and energy alternatives. All the

while we still drive around in oil burning

dinosaurs and paying thru the nose to do it! I

think John is looking at the rest of his life and

is longing for a level of normalcy and stability. Hollywood has always been at his door and I think if

the right offer came along... he would take it. He would probably enjoy being part of a show similar

to a Myth-Buster's format and I think it would be very beneficial to have someone like John

helping open the minds of children and adults alike. I don't think we've seen the last of John as I

believe there will always be someone wanting him to spark things up.

AAG: I'd like to wrap things up with a question about you're future: I understand that you put

some of your paranormal research on hold recently to rebuild your real-estate practice, but that

you've started doing media work again like the Rafe Mare show, and I'm wondering what you're

future plans are in this area? What can we expect to see from you in the future?


Harold Berndt: A closeup photo of Harold taken during filming at Hutchison’s in mid-2005.

Berndt: Thanks Tim and I want to thank you

for inviting me to discuss some of these vital

issues with you. As you know, unless you are

willing to "go commercial" in the precarious

field of the Paranormal... there's really isn't a

way to make a living unless you have a book to

peddle. So... real estate or pouring latte's at

Starbucks... the bills have to be paid. I would,

however, like to contribute a little more than I

have been to date. I also didn't want to become

openly public until I felt I actually had created

a solid foundation of knowledge and

experience to offer... "something" substantial

to add or a new fresh view rather than re-

hashing the same old thing but just moving the

potatoes to the other side of the plate (if you

know what I mean). In that regard, I would like

to start to become a little more visual and this

article is one of the recent projects I've agreed

to. A few weeks ago, as you know, I also

appeared on a Canadian TV show called Talk

Ottawa with fellow CSETI member Richard

Lalancette, Brian Vike of HBCCUFO (a UFO

reporting web site), and Exopolitical activist

Victor Viaganni. I'm looking forward to whatever I can contribute in the public forum including

future television and radio appearances. I've also started a blog spot I've entitled: "The Meta-

Harold - the blog edition" which I'm still working on and adding to and if I really get energetic... I'll

post a full blown web site with the same name. Other than that, I will continue my field and

research work with CSETI, my Disclosure work as well as any appropriate speaking engagements

I'm asked to participate in.

Harold Berndt is the Canadian representative for the Disclosure Project and well-known Real Estate

Agent in the Vancouver, BC area. Photos in this article were provided by Harold Berndt. For

additional information on his latest work, contact him directly at: [email protected]

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