How To Use Facebook To Attract New and Repeat Business To ... · marketing for Avaya. In that,...

The Insiders’ Secrets To Profiting From Social Media

Paul Dunay

How To Use Facebook To Attract New and Repeat

Business To Grow Your Annual Revenue

Brought to you by Charlie Cook

© Copyright • Charlie Cook, MarketingForSuccess, InMind Communications, LLC

NOTICE: This report is licensed to the original purchaser only. Duplication or distribution via e-mail, floppy disk, network, printout or other means to a person other than the original purchaser is a violation of international copyright law. © Copyright, Charlie Cook, In Mind Communications, LLC. All rights reserved. No part of this book may be reproduced in any form, by any means (including electronic, photocopying, recording or otherwise) without the prior written permission of the publisher. Published by: Marketing For Success, In Mind Communications, LLC Old Greenwich, CT 06870

Insiders’ Social Media Marketing Paul Dunay


1

Charlie: Today we’re talking with Paul Dunay of Avaya, author of

Facebook Marketing for Dummies. We’re going to discover

how to leverage the power of the Facebook community to

achieve your business marketing goals.

As way of introduction I’d like to start with sharing one of

the comments posted about Paul’s book on

www.Amazon.com.

The person who purchased Paul’s book wrote, “I bought

this book about two weeks ago thinking it could help my

business. I read it, and it seemed very logical and made a

lot of sense. I decided to use the free $50 credit which

came with the book.

“It’s amazing what happened with the information the

book had to offer. I followed the steps to make a page for

my company and bought some advertising space with the

free credit.

“The next day when I woke up, I went to check on the

results and I was stunned. My website had 150 more

page views than it normally gets in a day, and I had four

more sales than I normally get per day. The Facebook

credit hadn’t even been completely used up.

“With the simple tips in this book my website now gets

twice as much traffic as it did before I followed its steps.”

Paul, welcome to the call.

Paul: Thank you so much for having me. That’s a really great

endorsement. I’m glad you read it.

http://www.Amazon.com



2

Charlie: Obviously you don’t just have satisfied readers. You have

a track record of working with large companies. Let me

read some of the things you’ve done.

You spent, as I understand it, 20 years in marketing

creating buzz for leading technology companies such as

Google, IBM, Microsoft, BearingPoint and Cisco.

You’re currently the global managing director of

marketing for Avaya. In that, you’re responsible for

services and social marketing. That’s not to mention that

you are the author of Facebook Marketing for Dummies.

I’m not going to take that personally. You’ve been

recently named to B2B Marketing magazine’s top 25

marketers of the year.

Paul: It’s been a heck of a year.

Charlie: You have great credentials and testimonials, which is

even better in my mind. As I mentioned in talking to you

prior to the call, I’m looking forward to having you

transform me and our listeners from neophytes to

knowing enough to be dangerous on Facebook.

Before we get into the meat of today’s conversation, can

you tell us a little bit about your background and how you

got started using Facebook and became an expert in

social media marketing?

Paul: It’s sort of a two-part question. How did I become an

expert in social media or how did I start my trail in

becoming an expert in social media?

I started by feeling like I wasn’t getting the experience I

needed at the firm in which I was working at the time. I

started my own blog and doing my own podcast. I started



3

my own RSS feed, and I started doing some video and

hooking all of those things together.

Then I found Facebook. This was sort of before Facebook

even happened. I considered it like a sandbox. I wanted

to get my own experience in those tools. I figured if I

could for myself, I could apply it where I worked. That’s

exactly what happened.

Facebook came about as one of those shiny objects that

came through like Twitter did last year. Potentially,

Foursquare may be having that same kind of effect this

year. There’s going to be new social objects that are

coming down.

But Facebook I really gravitated to. I happened to meet a

buddy of mine who I had went to college with, as many

people do on Facebook. It turns out that he said to me,

“I’m working in New York, and I’m doing some interactive

marketing.” I said, “I’m working in New York, and I’m

doing some interactive marketing.”

The next thing you know, we got back together again

after not seeing each other for 15 years. This book

opportunity came about. He had his own firm and I was

working internally on a client. I said, “Would you want to

share this with me?” and the two of us ending up writing

this book.

Not only did we write a book about Facebook, but the two

of us had reconnected over Facebook, which I think is

kind of cool.

Charlie: That sounds great. Can you give a couple of examples of

how you’ve since been able to use Facebook help either

small or large businesses improve their bottom line?



4

Paul: I think Facebook is good for small or large, but you might

want to use them differently depending on where you’re

coming from.

Charlie: Most of our listeners are small business owners so if we

could focus on that, that’d be great.

Paul: I had a feeling, so I was going to focus on them.

All social media is a great equalizer between the small

and large business. We all have the same tools. There is

no difference in the tools that the large company has in

the social space versus the small company. That’s good

news there. Everyone gets to use the same thing and

there’s no difference between it.

How do you use it as a small business to compete with

the large business? That’s why I think it’s a great

equalizer. If you’re given the same tools and you’re able

to use them in the same way, you can essentially appear

as large as you want to be in any of these social networks

or in any form of social media.

For a small business, specifically when it comes to

Facebook, you have an enormous advantage. It’s

wonderful to think about this through the eyes of a local

small business.

If the small business is in a local regional area, let’s say

it’s the New Jersey area or a town within New Jersey, you

can target your advertisement and efforts to just the

people that are within a certain driving distance.

You can target within a 50 mile radius. You could sell

products to people that are only within a 50 mile radius.

People outside of that radius will never see that.



5

That might be a little scary, and it’s certainly very scary

to a large enterprise. For a small enterprise, you want to

be highly targeted, only hit the right people and spend

your dollars completely on the people that are most

people important to you. That’s the best way to do it.

It reminds of that adage, but I forget who said it. It was

something like, “Fifty percent of advertising dollars are

wasted. I just don’t know which half of those dollars are

wasted.” That’s the adage I think Facebook solves. You’re

able to target down to the individual person.

This is how the ad targeting works within Facebook.

You’re able to say, “I want males that are of a certain

age,” if that’s an important factor to you, “in a certain

region, and within a 50 miles radius of this zip code.

“If they say they like sushi and Dave Matthews Band

music, I want to send them a message on their birthday.”

There’s an unbelievable amount of targeting.

You don’t get this with something like Google. Let’s say

you’re a sushi restaurant somewhere in New Jersey. You

type in “sushi restaurant” and you’re playing with the big

boys. You can geo-target all you want out of that, but

you’re going to pay a very expensive price.

In Facebook, you’re able to carve out that niche down to

the individual. It may come down to 1,641 people who

match that particular criteria. They’re male, 45 years old,

who live in this area and say they like sushi and Dave

Matthews music, or something along those lines. Bingo.

You can pull that together and send that person an

advertisement.



6

Charlie: Let me interrupt here and ask the neophyte question.

You’ve been talking about what a great vehicle it is for

extremely targeted advertising. That sounds like it has

great advantages.

In my personal experience, my sister or my daughter

uses Facebook to post pictures about their vacation.

Maybe you can explain a little bit about what Facebook

actually is and the range of activities you can do on there.

What are the ones that small business owners should be

focusing on versus the ones people do for their personal

or social needs?

Paul: Let me take you on a tour of Facebook so you get it from

the very top down. I believe what we’re doing may look

superfluous to some people. “I’m reconnecting with my

oldest high-school friend,” or something like that. It

sounds sort of interesting, but not that interesting from a

business perspective.

I’m going to show how you’re going to be able to use this

in the future. What we’re building behind is something

much more powerful. Let me take you on a tour there.

Let’s start at the top. If Facebook was a country, it would

be the third largest country surpassing the United States.

It would be the third largest country behind China and

India.

The user base is up to 400 million people. My mom asks

me the same question. “Why would I do anything in

Facebook?” I say, “If you were a business and I gave you

the opportunity to put an advertisement in the middle of

Times Square where 400 million people are going to see

it, would you take that opportunity?”



7

Typically, the answer is yes. That sounds like a good

opportunity. Four hundred million people means one out

of every four people on the internet have a Facebook

account. This also means that one out of every 20 people

on the planet has a Facebook account.

That is a fairly large number. Two-thirds of all internet

users visit this social site, and it’s growing at three times

the rate of the internet itself. That’s another important

stat.

The main growing demographic right now is the 35 years

and older demographic. There’s a significant amount of

traffic from outside of the U.S. There’s 70% from outside

of the U.S.

Then you start to talk about what people are doing on

Facebook. Each month there are two billion photos

uploaded. That makes it the largest photo sharing site,

and it means there 750 photos uploaded per second if

you do the math.

There are 14 million videos uploaded to the site each

month, making it the second largest video-sharing site

behind YouTube.

Eight billion pieces of information are uploaded per

month, like web links, news stories, blog posts, notes,

etc. There are 2.5 million events and 45 million active

user groups on Facebook.

If you net that all out, 175 million out of their 400 million

log in per day and spend between 20 and 45 minutes on

average. If you do the math, that’s 5 to 8 billion minutes

per day.



8

It’s the second largest site on the web according

www.Alexa.com, behind Google and having surpassed

Yahoo at the end of last year. It’s a very large community

of people

Let me take you another level down. What makes

Facebook so powerful is that unlike Google, which works

on search history and an algorithm, Facebook is operating

on real data with real people, names, emails and

thoughts, what they share, their tastes and their news. It

has the ability to redefine how people are going to buy

items and develop and market products.

For example, who cares what some anonymous person

has to say about the latest movie, “Avatar”? If you want

to check that out, you can type “Avatar” into Google and

read anonymous peoples’ reviews.

If I type into Facebook, “I’m going to go see ‘Avatar,’

what do you think?” I’m going to see what my friends say

about “Avatar.” They’re going to tell me whether I should

buy it or not. That’s a little bit on how we might buy.

You saw Honda had developed a car, and they put it out

on Facebook. It was a later-stage thing. They said, “What

do you think of our new car?” and everyone said, “Gross,

we can’t stand it. It’s ugly.” It was unbelievable what

happened to them.

The lesson they learned is that if they’re going to develop

products and want feedback like that, they have to do it

earlier. Here are some designs. Vote on the designs. It’s

very collaborative.

http://www.Alexa.com



9

The term they use is “crowdsourcing,” and I’m trying not

to use that term. That’s the term they use in getting a

crowd to help with the design of something like that.

I’ve already talked a little bit about this. There’s the

chance that marketers have the ability to do behavioral

targeting. That is potentially an opportunity for marketers

that is irresistible, like catnip.

It may make Google look like a Betamax tape in

comparison. You’re just typing in a keyword, and random

people are going to see it. Here you have the ability to

target a specific type of individual.

It’s my opinion that Facebook is one of these once-in-a-

century communication tools that comes around. It’s like

the Gutenberg press, the Marconi radio, film or the

photograph.

It just so happens that all of those things I just

mentioned are on the Facebook platform. They’re on

everybody’s profile or company page for free. It doesn’t

get any more ridiculous than that. You have all of the

inventions that had ever happened before all for the low

price of free.

I would even hazard to say there might be small

businesses that may say, “I don’t need a website. What

do I need a website for and hope that people are going to

walk by my site and hit it? If I’m on Facebook, at least I

know can target people and find them.

“I can upload my email address book, get all of these

people onto my page, and hit them with specific offers. I

don’t have to pay a red cent. Why do I have to pay

hosting fees or a web designer? It’s all there.”



10

Facebook is planning on launching what they call

“storefronts.” It’s a great tee-up for today’s conversation,

Charlie. Last week we saw them announce the fact that

they’re going to allow PayPal to integrate with Facebook.

You can pay with PayPal on Facebook. It’s almost

becoming like a mini-eBay.

Maybe a year from now, you and I will look back at this

conversation and say, “Wow! What we didn’t know was

happening behind the scenes on Facebook is going to

affect small businesses on an ongoing basis.”

You see companies that sell a lot of stuff on eBay and

companies that created storefronts on Yahoo. You’re

going to see that happen in Facebook. We’re right at the

precipice of that.

Charlie: It sounds incredible, but I’m also hearing the number 8

billion and thinking, “How does a small business owner

get attention or get known?” What’s the 101 basic thing

that everybody should do and what’s the next level that’s

slightly more sophisticated?

Paul: Yes, what are the 101 and the 201?

Charlie: Maybe before we get to that, you can map out some

things to make sure you don’t do on Facebook.

Paul: In solving some of the 201, the next level, I think I’ll

solve some of that. Let’s take it step by step.

If what we’ve just talked about sounds exciting to you,

there are some basic building blocks that you’re going to

need.

The first thing is that you have to create your own

Facebook page. A page is what’s known as a business



11

page. For an individual, like my own personal account or

your own personal account, it’s known as a profile. You

need to create a profile in order to create a page. There is

a way you can actually skirt that, but I don’t recommend

that.

Start by creating your page. It’s like a website. It’s a

fundamental tactic and should be on everybody’s must-

have to-do lists. It’s a little bit like the dot-com land grab

that happened in the ‘90s. You need to secure your

company name in a site like this.

If your name is Joe’s Pizza, hurry up and get out there.

There might be another Joe’s Pizza out there that is

wanting to create their name. Their name would be

Facebook.com/joespizza, as mine is

www.Facebook.com/pauldunay.

Once you have your presence, you’ll need a strategy for

creating content or posting updates. Much like you would

keep your website fresh, you need to keep your Facebook

presence fresh as well. Be sure to get your employees

involved and encourage them to be fans.

Encourage them to drive conversations to this particular

site. The reason is that you want Facebook users to

discover your fan page through their friends.

The beautiful effect of Facebook is that it’s almost

voyeuristic, if you’ll allow me to say that. Your friends can

see what you’re doing on Facebook. If you’re interacting

with Joe’s Pizza’s page or Joe the plumber’s page, you’re

able to see that as a friend of mine. Therefore, you may

say, “That’s interesting to me. Let me check out what

Paul is doing.”

http://www.Facebook.com/pauldunay



12

You can therefore grow your fan base of that page virally.

It has the ability to grow without me ever saying,

“Charlie, come look at Joe’s Pizza page. It’s actually

pretty cool. Why don’t you sign up?”

You can do it explicitly, but you can also do it implicitly.

Charlie: Let’s say someone has their Facebook profile up and

they’re thinking, “I want to attract people and have

friends of friends on Facebook following me.” What’s the

best content they should be putting up to do that?

Paul: I don’t think there is bad content to put up there. Any

content is good content should be a reasonable rule. I

would say there’s the ability to create more social kinds of

content that will travel more through Facebook.

Those are typically tips, like the four things to do when

you’re making a pizza or the five things not to do if you’re

fixing your toilets, or something along those lines if you’re

Joe the plumber. You can use those things.

People are typically interested in any sort of top-10 lists

or any good sharable content, not five reasons to buy

from Joe’s Pizza or Joe the plumber. That’s not going to

have a good viral effect.

Let me go into the definition of the viral effect for a

second. The viral effect is defined as when N is greater

than one. If I send it just to you, that’s N equal to one.

That’s not going to create a viral effect. If I decide to

send it to you and you decide not to send it anybody, it

dies there.

If N is greater than one, like if I share it with my wife and

friend from high school and off it goes, then N is equal to



13

two. Therefore, it can start to take off. It’s almost like

that Breck commercial. I’m kind of dating myself. It said

they told two friends and so on and so on. That’s the

definition of that.

What could the creation of good content be? It could be a

photo, video, PowerPoint presentation, blog post, or

micro-blog post like Twitter posts if you’re doing any of

those things. It could be something you share on

Delicious, like a bookmark, or on any of those services

like Digg, etc.

Anything you can find that’s relevant to your particular

businesses should be syndicated through your Facebook

page. It’s all available for you there. It’s free content that

you’re posting and keeping your page constantly relevant

which is good.

That’s Step 1. Step 2 is to throw an event. A Facebook

event is a great way to get people together virtually or in

person to support your local business. It doesn’t need to

be an event that’s on Facebook. People typically get this

sort of mixed up.

If you’re throwing a party at your local store, like a

launch party or you’re having a designer come in to show

their jewelry, clothing or something like that, why not list

it on Facebook as well?

It’s a way of inviting not just people that are fans of your

page, but the friends of the fans of your page.

If you have 100 people who are friends and they have

100 people that they’re friends with, that’s 10,000 people

you’re inviting to your event.



14

That’s pretty cool. It’s very economical. Of course, it’s

free. You’re getting the word out beyond your normal in-

house marketing list and your friends of your fan page. I

would absolutely do that as a matter of course. Don’t

forget to do that.

Also, don’t forget to follow up after the event. Tell people

about it, post photos about it and make people envious

that they didn’t go and they should listen to you next

time.

Step 3 is to potentially do some advertising like we were

just talking about that the recommendation had in there.

The number of Facebook advertisers has tripled in 2009. I

would expect that to quadruple, if not more, in 2010.

You’ll find that Facebook advertising is unlike any other

advertising experience you’ve ever had. It’s mainly

because of what we were talking about as far as by

location, age, sex, keywords, education and even by

specific work places.

You can say you only want people at FedEx to get this

message. You want it to be delivered on their birthday.

You can target it down.

It’s very much like any other online advertising that

you’ve purchased. It comes in cost-per-click or cost-per-

thousand. It’s CPC or CPM. I recommend CPC because it’s

the most cost effective. You only get people that come to

your page if they click through and that’s exactly what

you want to have happening.

The last thing I would recommend is that maybe there’s

an application that you want to create. You can create a

specific tab on your page that would either have



15

something like a video or demo. You can take it up a level

to create a Facebook application that’s engaging to the

Facebook community.

A good example of this that I thought was very cool was

that FedEx had created a Facebook FedEx box. I could

send you, Charlie, a picture of my skiing vacation in Utah

in a FedEx box.

You’d get a message that said, “Paul Dunay just sent you

a FedEx box in your Facebook account.” You’d think,

“What? Let me go open my FedEx box,” and you’d find

this picture. You could send a bunch of things. You could

send documents or videos, but in order to do that you

had to download the application.

What they found was that out of the people who

downloaded it, within the first 72 hours, 300,000 people

had already sent another grouping of boxes out. The

pass-along rate was fantastic and the uninstall rate was

at 10%. It was a very low uninstall rate. People kept this

around. It was a way of getting someone’s attention, and

it was very in brand.

I think there are some really cool ways to engage the

audience with a potential brand out there. You see a lot of

small businesses like Einstein Bros. Bagels and places like

this giving away a free sample.

That’s another great way to do it. “Become a fan of my

page, and you get to download this coupon and get a free

sample.” Texas Pete Hot Sauce is another place that did a

very similar thing. “Send it in and get a free sample if you

become a member of my page.”



16

People love free stuff. Think free stuff, events,

applications, advertising and content wherever you can to

fill in the gaps.

Charlie: Let me backtrack. I understand the advertising sounds

like if you’re going to spend money on pay-per-click

advertising, it’s exciting and a better situation and deal

than Google where you can get a good click-through rate

but conversions can drop off.

Hopefully with a much more targeted audience, it should

increase your return on your investment and advertising.

It seems like one of the keys in terms of using Facebook

is to try to have a huge number of friends or followers.

Paul: Yes, it’s to build that list. You want to build it before you

need it, basically.

Charlie: Everybody probably needs it yesterday.

Paul: Yes, that’s internet time.

Charlie: The strategy is to go to work, start to build it, and

eventually hopefully be able to leverage it. Can you walk

people through the hands-on? They have 25 or 50

followers. How do they leverage that to hopefully grow to

thousands, and how quickly can they do it?

Paul: There are plenty of free ways to do it outside of

advertising. You’ll see that Facebook is doing a very good

job of this lately. They put in, “Advertise your page. Click

here.”

There are plenty of other ways to do it for free outside of

the paid advertising. One way is to leverage the Facebook

content in some of your traditional channels. I typically

see a company that has a newsletter or website and they



17

don’t cross promote the other property. Definitely

mention that you have a Facebook page. Say, “Sign up on

Facebook,” on your website.

Why not take content from your Facebook page and make

a section on your home page that says, “Heard on

Facebook.” The people who have done that have reported

that it is the hottest, most clicked on section of any part

of their home page when they have a portal to what’s

going on in Facebook.

Think about that. It’s another way to get people to sign

up for your page. You’re taking something that you

already have and making it work harder. I like that one.

Charlie: Basically, if you have a “Heard on Facebook” link on your

home page or somewhere on your blog, once people click

on that, then before they can view your Facebook page

they need to sign up as a friend or follower.

Paul: They don’t need to sign up in order to see it. By the way,

we missed a step here and we should backtrack for it.

Pages are public. That’s good and bad. First is that

anybody can see it, meaning your competitors. You don’t

typically put stuff on your website or Facebook page that

you wouldn’t want your competitors to see anyway, so it’s

not a big problem.

Also, you get good search engine optimization. That’s

known as SEO. It could be better. It’s getting better, but

keep in mind that since it is public, it does get indexed by

the search engines. It will naturally appear as another

result when someone does a search for your company

name. That’s a good piece of the puzzle.



18

The mechanic is that you’re not charging them to see it,

but if they are engaged with the content they will most

likely sign up. Typically, if it’s someone who’s already on

your website, they may not be aware that you have a

Facebook page. They might say, “Let me follow these

guys and see what they’re doing.”

That’s one good way of leveraging it. Another good way is

to take the Facebook community you’re building and

announce that you’re going to have a promotion.

Let’s say you’re sending out a newsletter. Why not let

them know? “I’m about to send out my newsletter. Sign

up!” Why not prime the pump?

Publish your status update the day before your newsletter

goes out and remind people that they need to sign up if

they’re not on your list. Try to get some cross promotion

of these channels. Leverage Facebook to get that cross

promotion through other channels.

Another way I recommend is to make your existing

collateral work harder. Of course, put in that thing about

Facebook at the end of all your PDFs or collaterals.

Typically, I also see people do videos and there’s no call

to action. There’s no, “Catch us on Facebook,” or “See us

on Twitter.” You need to start to make this collateral work

harder for you.

I can’t tell you how many times I see a video that ends,

and it’s just over. There’s nothing. You had me for three

and a half minutes. You worked hard to get me to come

there and you never told me what to do.



19

There are very viral elements that could end up reaching

hundreds or even thousands of potential prospects. Why

not give them a way to get more information? Be sure to

do that.

Another idea I like is why not post the story on your

Facebook page about a customer complaint you were able

to solve? We did that. We posted one where we were able

to solve a customer complaint that came in via Twitter.

We solved it in 24 hours. We told the whole story on

Facebook.

It gave them a reason to come to the page. It came them

a cool story. People say, “I want that guy to work on my

account.”

It can be a little series of real-world examples. You don’t

have to do it every day. Maybe you say, “On the first

Thursday of the month,” or “On the first day of the

month,” or “On the 15th of the month, we’ll tell you the

latest kick-ass story,” of something like the wonderful

reference that you read from me. You can put one of

those out once a month. You build your Facebook base in

a big way.

The other classic way of doing it is what I like to call my

formula. It’s to join and then link. You want to get more

people interested in you. Why not start reaching out to

other people? Get interested in other people’s

conversations.

You can do that using the Facebook platform. You can go

out to individual groups and listen to the conversations

first. Don’t run up to them and hand them your business

card. That’s the social equivalent of saying, “Come join

my page right now!”



20

What you want to do is listen to the conversation, add

some content, set yourself up as an expert on whatever

the topic is, and then start to draw them to your page.

You say, “Have you seen my blog post about this and

that?”

Think of it a little like a cocktail party where you want to

engage with somebody that you don’t know in a very

informal way. You end up listening to the conversation,

and then you start adding to the conversation. Eventually

you say, “By the way, I work at XYZ. Why don’t you come

visit me?”

Charlie: Here’s the simplest way for those people who haven’t

done it to find groups. There’s a listing down the side,

depending on the page you’re on, that lists groups. You

can also just type in your topic area and search for it.

Paul: That’s correct. There are two ways of doing it, and you

named both of them.

You can also look at groups that your friends belong to. If

you really admire someone in the industry, see what

groups they’re involved in and maybe you want to join

them as well. It’s the same way as you would join

Toastmasters or some other group. You heard that your

friend was taking that course and doing a great job with

it.

Charlie: You’ve shared a lot of ideas. Many of them sound

awesome in terms of things that would be very helpful.

But the one thing I hear people say is, “How much time

should I spend on Facebook?” Is it 10, 20, 30 or 40 hours

a week? What’s a realistic plan for getting started with

Facebook?



21

Paul: The book is titled Facebook Marketing for Dummies, and

I’ve seen a new book that just came out, Facebook Marketing: An Hour a Day. I’d say it’s half an hour a day

to start out.

As a business owner, you’ll sit down in the morning with

some coffee to answer some emails. Put a plug in and

say, “I’ll give it half an hour. From 8:30 a.m. to 9:00 a.m.

before we open, I’ll work the Facebook channel a little.”

I think you could do some really good work in half an

hour a day just connecting to and friending people,

listening to some conversations, and adding and

uploading content and pictures. You may find a moment

when you need to spend more, but I think a minimum of

a half hour a day would be a very good benchmark.

I know it’s more time out of everybody’s already busy

schedule, but I think the benefits outweigh that of any

other media. Where can you talk with 400 million

potential customers directly on a daily basis? I’m not sure

I can find another place. It’s certainly not your website,

which is a much more random way of going about it.

Charlie: One person I was talking to about social media came up

with an analogy that I think is good. I want to see if we

can extend it a little.

In this day and age, everybody is online and on their

mobile phone. They’re all over the world. You’re trying to

reach out to customers in all sorts of places you’ll never

actually be.

You can’t just walk down to the general store and sit on

the bench in front to meet with the people who will

potentially buy from you. You can’t walk down to the



22

water cooler in your building and hope to find all the

people you’d like to work with.

Social media marketing is akin to a better town square or

water cooler. What are your thoughts on that?

Paul: I like it a lot. I’ll tell you why. Today I solved a major

customer issue using social media. I had a Twitter inquiry

over the weekend where this person said, “I’m having a

problem with my ABC 123. Can you help?”

I couldn’t help because I really didn’t know much about it,

but I knew who could help. I got that person involved

with them first thing Monday morning. We resolved the

issue and I got a note from him saying, “I took care of

him. Everything is set. The guy is very happy”

This person was in Ireland, of all places. It’s not that it’s a

bad place, but you never know where these things are

coming from. It’s fantastic. He’ll probably appear on our

Facebook page of success stories on an ongoing basis.

Someone was potentially negative and having a very

negative experience because their thing wasn’t working

and we made it a positive experience. What’s the ROI on

that?

That’s the other question we haven’t really touched on

yet. What’s the ROI on talking to someone who could be

easily off the reservation?

Someone could come by and say, “What are you dealing

with them for? Why don’t you deal with this other

company over here?” and bingo, I’ve lost a customer. We

were able to save that customer in 24 to 36 hours’ time.

What’s the ROI on that?



23

If I save two or three dozen customers every year, what’s

the cost of acquiring a new customer? Is it $1,000 or

maybe more? Is it $10,000? In a technology firm, it’s not

that uncommon. Ten thousand times 36 is pretty good

money. It’s $360,000. A half-hour investment of time is a

pretty low investment. Think about it from that

perspective.

Charlie: That’s good advice. One thing we haven’t talked about is

that there are a whole host of other things that people

call social media marketing. There’s Twitter and LinkedIn.

Some people consider YouTube a social media marketing

tool. There are blogs.

If I was going to pick one to spend my time on, why

should it be Facebook? It sounds like you’re a Facebook

fan. Why is Facebook better than some of the other

alternatives?

Paul: It has all of the things that you mentioned built in. You

have the blog, which is called “Notes.” You have Twitter,

which is the status update. You have the ability to put up

PowerPoint presentations, videos or photos, which is

SlideShare, YouTube, Flickr or any of those things.

All those forms of social media are available on the

Facebook platform, again for free. They’re for free on the

other ones. That’s a parity issue.

It’s not a differentiating factor for Facebook, but it’s all on

the same individual platform rather than having a channel

for this and a channel for that. I have a blog over here, a

YouTube account over there and a Twitter account over

here. They’re all different, and they don’t really talk to

each other.



24

This one is one where it’s all in the same place. Someone

doesn’t necessarily need to subscribe to all of them. They

can just subscribe to your Facebook page.

I think the efficiency that you get out of the Facebook

platform is really what’s attractive, especially if you don’t

have those things. By the way, if you’re thinking, “I

already have a Twitter account. I have a YouTube

account,” you can also sew them together with Facebook.

You can import those individual feeds into your Facebook

account. You’re not locked out because you started early

and were an early adopter. That’s not a negative. You can

turn it into a positive and import all of those things onto

your Facebook page.

Charlie: The other advantage is for people who think, “I need to

build a website. How will I do that? I need to hire a

webmaster. I need to master the content management

program.”

Facebook has already done that. You don’t need to know

it. You just need to log on and use the tools they’ve

developed to manage your own content.

Paul: That’s correct. It’s a little like the early days with the web

when they had GeoCities. They had template ties and

things like that. Think about it from that perspective.

Then we all moved into this massive world where

everyone needed to have servers, rack-mounts for

servers and stuff like that. If you look at technology

trends, I think we’re moving into a place where they’re

talking about everything being in the cloud. Everything is

cloud this and cloud computing that.



25

The whole Facebook think is essentially your website in a

cloud. You’re not hosting it. It’s up there and people are

able to access it. I think there’s a great way of using the

Facebook platform, and the price can’t be better. You

can’t really beat free.

Charlie: Absolutely. What can go wrong? Are there any threats to

Facebook? Is there anything people should be concerned

about?

Paul: That’s a really good question. The two most often cited

questions I get on that particular topic are, “What

happens if I open up my Facebook account and somebody

says something negative?”

Let’s get this one out of the way because it’s a fairly easy

one. You know when you open the tap to some water,

maybe a hose outside, and it comes out a little dirty?

That’s kind of way I think some accounts tend to start up.

It’s not necessarily on Facebook, but more major, larger

enterprises may have some pent-up negative or ill will

about the company.

Maybe the large size of the company dictates how much

ill will is up there, but sometimes there are people out

there who have something negative to say. They may say

it on your page.

That’s great. Handle it. Take it like a man. Face it and

say, “This was the situation. I hear what you’re saying.

We’ve done our best to rectify it and we plan to never let

it happen again.” Say something along those lines.

There are some great case studies of how people have

handled it. It was Tylenol years ago and Motrin most

recently. Think about it from that perspective.



26

Don’t fear it. That’s not a good excuse. I won’t accept

that excuse from anyone listening to this program, so

don’t let it be your excuse. Make sure that you open the

page and work through whatever those relationships are.

Then you’ll find it’s like the tap water. It will start to run

clean.

People won’t say things negative on your page to your

face if they know you’re there, listening, engaged and

trying hard. You’re transparent. I think the days of

companies being guarded are over and I know you may

have heard that before.

This is called social media. You’re not social today and

then on Fridays you’re antisocial. That can’t happen.

You’ll be social for the rest of your life. It’s over. The

horse is out of the barn. All these horses are out of the

barn. We’re going to stay like this, so you may as well get

in tune with it. You’ll need to get that negative, dirty

water out.

There is a downside with Facebook. They could essentially

turn your page off. People can report you. Understand

that if people are posting pornography or it’s some radical

hate group, they can turn on those pages. They reserve

the right to do that.

No companies I know have had this happen to them, but

it’s just good to be aware of that it is a possibility.

Obviously, you must have been doing something for them

to that.

The policy is for things like hate groups, pornography and

bad language etc. Keep that in mind if you’re planning on

selling pornography on your site. It may not be a great



27

place to have a site. Other than that I’d say you’re pretty

well off.

Charlie: Typical small business owners try to wear 80 million hats

at the same time and try to do too much in a week. One

of the questions I can hear them asking is, “Sounds

great. Can I outsource this?” What’s your comment on

that?

Paul: Yes, actually you can. There are a number of agencies. I

am not one of them, so I’m not pitching anything. I

certainly can point you to a number of agencies.

There’s www.BuddyMedia.com. My friends over there are

doing a bang-up job. There’s also

www.AboutFaceDigital.com. They’re doing these services

for individuals.

Then of course there is a host of people who are doing it

individually. There’s Mari Smith. Justin is also out there

doing it as well. He’s going to kill me for not remembering

his last name.

There are a number of ways to do it. People who are also

doing some of your website type stuff may also be doing

it. I’d go with someone who has experience. Don’t be the

first person on their list. Be the 12th or the 20th,

especially if you’re a small business. You want to

outsource it all to an individual.

Charlie: We’re closing in on our time and I have a couple more

questions I want to get to. One is that obviously you have

a great book called Facebook Marketing for Dummies.

How has that been selling?

http://www.BuddyMedia.com

http://www.AboutFaceDigital.com



28

Paul: We sold 4,500 copies before it actually shipped. The book

shipped on October 26 and by the end of November,

within the first 30 days, we’d sold 7,500 copies. It’s

already on its third printing, which means we’re

somewhere in the stratosphere of 20,000 copies sold.

The single highest selling day ever was New Year’s Day,

1/1/2010. Why? My opinion is that people said, “My

resolution this year is to learn about Facebook.”

They looked on Amazon or Barnes & Noble, where the

book is available and bought it off of that site on the first

day of the year. That was the highest grossing day for us

and hasn’t been eclipsed yet. Thank you to anyone who

bought it.

I thought it was cool that people were probably thinking

that thought. I think it was a very direct correlation

between what people were thinking. Why else would

someone buy it on New Year’s Day?

Charlie: Let me ask you an obvious question. You have a book on

Facebook. How did you use Facebook to promote your

book on Facebook?

Paul: We have a Facebook page to promote it. It’s called

“Facebook for Business.” Facebook coincidentally wouldn’t

let me have the page called “Facebook Marketing for

Dummies.” They did not like that page.

Charlie: They thought it was offensive.

Paul: It uses their trademark so they reserve the right of use

when the trademark is involved. They let me have

“Facebook for Business.” I appealed to them. I said, “My



29

book is about this.” They said, “How about ‘Facebook for

Business.’ It’s shorter.”

I’ve since created

www.Facebook.com/fbmarketingfordummies. You can get

there through a circuitous route.

What we did was give away free chapters and ebooks

packaged as “Things that didn’t make the book.” We put

out three ebooks on it. We solved customer issues on

there.

We did a contest. “Tell us the best use for Facebook you

have and maybe it will make it into the book.” We did a

bunch of stuff out there. It definitely had a lot of keen

interest right around the time we launched. It’s cooled

out a little since then, and as you know, we’re planning

another book, Facebook Advertising for Dummies.

Back in 2001 I was playing with a funny thing called

Google AdWords, which was the original keyword

interface. I was buying words like “globalization” and

“ecommerce” for 25 cents and owning those words. I was

putting my thought leadership papers out there, driving

them down, getting people to sign up and creating leads

out of that. To do that for 25 cents cost per click was

unbelievable.

I’m seeing the same thing happening right now on

Facebook and thinking, “I’ve seen this story before. Cost-

per-click prices will go up.”

I would argue that the advertising machine Facebook

created is better than the advertising machine that

Google created. Although I’d never cancel my Google

AdWords. I still love them. I mean no disrespect to

http://www.Facebook.com/fbmarketingfordummies



30

Google, but I think the targeting capability is better in the

Facebook account. When people get hip to that, it will be

as big as Google is currently. Google, watch out. There’s

a competitor on your tail.

Charlie: If you’re going to get into Facebook advertising, it sounds

like this is the time to do it before prices start to go up

with competitive bidding on words.

Paul: I couldn’t agree more. I’m taking advantage of it myself.

I recommend it to everybody.

The reason the book is due is because we touch on

advertising, but it’s a big piece of Facebook. It’s their

engine. It’s their revenue-generation machine. In the

same way that Dummies has Google AdWords for Dummies, they need a Facebook Advertising for Dummies. I told that to Wiley and they said, “We agree.

Do it.” I thought, “Whoa! I didn’t expect that one.”

Charlie: When are you hoping to have this book out?

Paul: We’re already on the third chapter, so I’d say probably at

the end of the summer, in September.

Charlie: For people who can’t wait, will you provide sneak

previews?

Paul: Yes, in fact I’m talking about it all the time on my

personal Facebook page. We’ll be talking about it on the

Facebook for Business page and certainly on my blog,

www.PaulDunay.com. Stay tuned.

As I learn more about this platform and as they advance

it even more, you’ll be the first to know.

http://www.PaulDunay.com



31

Charlie: Maybe you could just run through the ways people can

stay in touch with you and follow the discussion and what

you’re revealing about Facebook Advertising for Dummies. What is the best way to do that?

Paul: The best way to do that is at www.PaulDunay.com. That’s

the first place to get me. Certainly there’s

www.Twitter.com/pauldunay and www.Facebook.com.

You can type in “Facebook for business” and you’ll get

there as well.

Charlie: That’s great. The books sound wonderful and I can’t wait

to get Facebook Advertising for Dummies. Obviously

you’re not spending your whole time just writing those

books, although it sounds like a worthwhile endeavor if

that was what you were doing. What are the other

products and services you provide?

Paul: I work as the services and social media lead for Avaya,

which is a global business communications firm. We’re

the number-one choice in contact centers. We’re arguably

the number-one and number-two choice in unified

communications, which is business communications.

If businesses look down at their desktop phone and it

says “Avaya” on the caller ID, that’s what we do. That’s a

piece of the puzzle I’m working with all the time.

If you ask my wife what I was doing all weekend, she

would tell you that I was writing Facebook Advertising for Dummies. They were watching the Olympics, and I was

writing the book.

Charlie: We all appreciate your efforts to explain it and make it

clear to us neophytes so we can all leverage it, as it

sounds you’re leveraging it for your business.

http://www.PaulDunay.com

http://www.Twitter.com/pauldunay

http://www.Facebook.com



32

I greatly appreciate you taking the time to join us today.

I’m sure our listeners will find great value in this if they

put even a few of the ideas you’ve shared into action.

Thanks again for joining us.

Paul: Thank you for having me.

Do you want to be truly successful? Find out what works and take

action. Put these social media marketing ideas to use to help more

people get to know you, trust you, and want to do business with you.

Make sure to listen to the rest of the interviews in the Insiders Social

Media Telesummit series to discover what every business owner should

know about social media marketing.



33

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