FLAMMABLE AND COMBUSTIBLE LIQUIDS CODE ......Address List No Phone Flammable and Combustible Liquids...

FLCAAC.2013-11 Agenda.doc

FLAMMABLE AND COMBUSTIBLE LIQUIDS CODE COMMITTEE

MEMORANDUM

TO: Correlating Committee on Flammable and Combustible Liquids

FROM: R. P. Benedetti

DATE: November 3, 2013

SUBJECT: Agenda for Correlating Committee Second Draft Web Conference November 4, 2013

_________________________________________________________________________________ Gentlemen: Attached is the Agenda for the Second Draft Web Conference of the Correlating Committee on Flammable and Combustible Liquids, to be held Monday, November 4, 2013, beginning at 12:00 PM Eastern Time. If you have any questions, please call me at 617-984-7433. rpb/ cc FLCC Meeting Folder FLCAAC/NM

FLCAAC.2013-11 Agenda.doc

FLAMMABLE AND COMBUSTIBLE LIQUIDS CODE COMMITTEE

AGENDA

Correlating Committee on Flammable and Combustible Liquids Second Draft Web Conference

Monday, November 4, 2013, 12:00 PM Eastern Time

1. Call to Order. 2. Introduction of Attendees. Update of Committee Roster. [Attachment № A1] 3. Approval of Minutes of Last Meeting. 4. Report of Committee Chair. 5. Report of Staff Liaison.

Technical Committee Scopes. Technical Committee Membership Status. A2014 Document Revision Schedule. [Attachment № A2]

6. Reports on Current Issues. [As Necessary] 7. Review Technical Committee Second Draft Ballot Reports. [Attachment № A3] [NOTE: The 2nd Draft Report of the T/C on Fundamentals was unanimously affirmative.] [NOTE: There was no 2nd Draft Report of the T/C on Storage & Warehousing of Containers &

Portable Tanks.] 8. Review of Potential Complaint to Standards Council. [Attachment № A4] 9. Recent Correspondence. [NONE] 10. Other Old Business. [NONE] 11. New Business.

Planning for A2017 Document Revision Cycle. 12. Schedule Next Meeting(s). 13. Adjournment.

Address List No PhoneFlammable and Combustible Liquids FLC-AAC

Robert P. Benedetti09/05/2013

FLC-AAC

Jack Woycheese

ChairHughes Associates, Inc.2195 Overlook DriveWalnut Creek, CA 94597

SE 1/1/1991FLC-AAC

Tracey D. Bellamy

PrincipalTelgian Corporation900 Circle 75 Parkway, Suite 680Atlanta, GA 30339The Home DepotAlternate: John D. Campbell

U 10/29/2012

FLC-AAC

Douglas W. Fisher

PrincipalFisher Engineering, Inc.10475 Medlock Bridge Road, Suite 520Johns Creek, GA 30097

SE 10/29/2012FLC-AAC

John J. Foley

PrincipalThe RJA Group, Inc.3384 Peachtree Road NE, Suite 550Atlanta, GA 30326Alternate: Jonathan M. Eisenberg

SE 3/21/2006

FLC-AAC

Richard S. Kraus

PrincipalAPI/Petroleum Safety Consultants210 East Fairfax Street, Apt. 600Falls Church, VA 22046-2909American Petroleum InstituteAlternate: Clark D. Shepard

M 1/1/1989FLC-AAC

William E. Rehr

PrincipalInternational Code Council4051 West Flossmoor RoadCountry Club Hills, IL 60478

E 4/1/1980

FLC-AAC

Roland A. Riegel

PrincipalUL LLC1285 Walt Whitman RoadMelville, NY 11747-3085Alternate: Alfredo M. Ramirez

RT 4/15/2004FLC-AAC

Douglas A. Rivers

Principal3M CompanyCorporate Safety3M Center, Building 224-6W-28St. Paul, MN 55144-1000Alternate: Richard E. Stutzki

U 1/1/1991

FLC-AAC

Peter J. Willse

PrincipalXL Global Asset Protection Services100 Constitution Plaza, 12th FloorHartford, CT 06103Alternate: Luis F. Arango

I 3/21/2006FLC-AAC

Luis F. Arango

AlternateXL Global Asset Protection Services21707 Shallow Glen LaneKaty, TX 77450Principal: Peter J. Willse

I 7/16/2003

FLC-AAC

John D. Campbell

AlternateTelgian Corporation12250 Weber Hill Road, Suite 230St. Louis, MO 63127-1552The Home DepotPrincipal: Tracey D. Bellamy

U 10/29/2012FLC-AAC

Jonathan M. Eisenberg

AlternateThe RJA Group, Inc.Rolf Jensen & Associates, Inc.1661 Worcester Road, Suite 501Framingham, MA 01701-5405Principal: John J. Foley

SE 7/23/2008

1

bbenedetti

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ATTACHMENT No. A1

Address List No PhoneFlammable and Combustible Liquids FLC-AAC

Robert P. Benedetti09/05/2013

FLC-AAC

Alfredo M. Ramirez

AlternateUL LLC333 Pfingsten RoadNorthbrook, IL 60062-2096Principal: Roland A. Riegel

RT 4/15/2004FLC-AAC

Clark D. Shepard

AlternateExxonMobil CorporationResearch & Engineering3225 Gallows Road, Room 3A2111Fairfax, VA 22037American Petroleum InstitutePrincipal: Richard S. Kraus

M 7/19/2002

FLC-AAC

Richard E. Stutzki

Alternate3M Company3M Center, Building 224-6W-28St. Paul, MN 55144-1000Principal: Douglas A. Rivers

U 10/29/2012FLC-AAC

Scott Ayers

Nonvoting MemberUS Consumer Product Safety Commission5 Research PlaceRockville, MD 20850

C 03/07/2013

FLC-AAC

Stephen W. Haines

Nonvoting MemberHaines Fire & Risk Consulting Corp.1 Linda Lane, Suite BSouthampton, NJ 08088TC on Tank Storage and Piping Systems

SE 08/09/2012FLC-AAC

Dwight H. Havens

Nonvoting MemberBechtel Marine Propulsion CorporationKnolls Atomic Power Laboratory20 Bellflower RoadMalta, NY 12020-4431TC on Operations

U 10/23/2003

FLC-AAC

John A. LeBlanc

Nonvoting MemberFM Global1151 Boston-Providence TurnpikePO Box 9102Norwood, MA 02062-9102TC on Storage and Warehousing of Containers andPortable Tanks

I 1/14/2005FLC-AAC

Christopher J. Wieczorek

Nonvoting MemberFM Global1151 Boston-Providence TurnpikePO Box 9102Norwood, MA 02062-9102TC on Fundamentals

I 11/2/2006

FLC-AAC

David L. Blomquist

Member EmeritusBlomquist Fire Protection Engineering114 Golden Ridge RoadAlamo, CA 94507-2869

10/1/1993FLC-AAC

Donald M. Johnson

Member Emeritus3333 Rossmoor Parkway, #1Walnut Creek, CA 94595

1/1/1964

FLC-AAC

Brooke B. Smith, Jr.

Member Emeritus1324 Longs PointWoodland Park, CO 80863-5306

SE 1/1/1982FLC-AAC

Robert P. Benedetti

Staff LiaisonNational Fire Protection Association1 Batterymarch ParkQuincy, MA 02169-7471

2

2014 ANNUAL REVISION CYCLE *Public Input Dates may vary according to documents and schedules for Revision Cycles may change. Please check the NFPA Website for the most up‐to‐date information on Public Input Closing Dates and schedules at

www.nfpa.org/document # (i.e. www.nfpa.org/101) and click on the Next Edition tab

Process Stage

Process Step

Dates for TC

Dates forTC with

CC Public Input Closing Date* 6/22/2012 6/22/2012

Final Date for TC First Draft Meeting 11/30/2012 8/31/2012

Public Input Posting of First Draft and TC Ballot 1/18/2013 10/12/2012

Stage Final date for Receipt of TC First Draft ballot 2/8/2013 11/2/2012

(First Draft) Final date for Receipt of TC First Draft ballot ‐ recirc 2/15/2013 11/9/2012

Posting of First Draft for CC Meeting 11/16/2012

Final date for CC First Draft Meeting 12/28/2012

Posting of First Draft and CC Ballot 1/18/2013

Final date for Receipt of CC First Draft ballot 2/8/2013

Final date for Receipt of CC First Draft ballot ‐ recirc 2/15/2013

Post Final First Draft for Public Comment 2/22/2013 2/22/2013

Public Comment closing date 5/3/2013 5/3/2013

Final Date to Publish Notice of Consent Documents (Documents that received no Comments)

5/10/2013 5/10/2013

Appeal Closing Date for Consent Documents (Documents that received no Comments)

5/24/2013 5/24/2013

Final date for TC Second Draft Meeting 10/18/2013 7/12/2013

Comment Posting of Second Draft and TC Ballot 11/29/2013 8/23/2013

Stage Final date for Receipt of TC Second Draft ballot 12/20/2013 9/13/2013

(Second Final date for receipt of TC Second Draft ballot ‐ recirc 12/27/2013 9/20/2013

Draft) Posting of Second Draft for CC Meeting 9/27/2013

Final date for CC Second Draft Meeting 11/8/2013

Posting of Second Draft for CC Ballot 11/29/2013

Final date for Receipt of CC Second Draft ballot 12/20/2013

Final date for Receipt of CC Second Draft ballot ‐ recirc 12/27/2013

Post Final Second Draft for NITMAM Review 1/3/2014 1/3/2014

Tech Session Notice of Intent to Make a Motion (NITMAM) Closing Date 2/7/2014 2/7/2014

Preparation Posting of Certified Amending Motions (CAMs) and Consent Documents

4/4/2014 4/4/2014

(& Issuance) Appeal Closing Date for Consent Documents 4/18/2014 4/18/2014

SC Issuance Date for Consent Documents 5/9/2014 5/9/2014

Tech Session Association Meeting for Documents with CAMs 6/9‐12/2014 6/9‐12/2014

Appeals and Appeal Closing Date for Documents with CAMs 6/24/2014 6/24/2014

Issuance Council Issuance Date for Documents with CAMs 8/14/2014 8/14/2014

bbenedetti

Text Box

ATTACHMENT No. A2

National Fire Protection Association 1 Batterymarch Park, Quincy, MA 02169-7471 Phone: 617-770-3000 • Fax: 617-770-0700 • www.nfpa.org

TO: Technical Committee on Operations (FLC-OPS)

FROM: R. P. Benedetti, Staff Liaison

DATE: September 6, 2013

SUBJECT: NFPA 30 Second Draft TC Final Ballot Results (A2014) ____________________________________________________________________________ According to the final ballot results, all ballot items received the necessary affirmative votes to pass ballot.

27 Members Eligible to Vote 1 Ballot Not Returned (G. Bareta) 23 Members Voted Affirmative (2 with comment on one or more Second Revisions– D. Wechsler and

J. Woycheese) 2 Members Voted Negative on one or more Second Revisions (A. Ordile and D. Wechsler) 1 Member Abstained on one or more Second Revisions (J. Woycheese) The attached report shows the number of affirmative, negative, and abstaining votes as well as the explanation of the vote for each second revision.

There are two criteria necessary for each second revision to pass ballot: (1) simple majority and (2)

affirmative 2/3 vote. The mock examples below show how the calculations are determined.

(1) Example for Simple Majority: Assuming there are 20 vote eligible committee members, 11 affirmative votes are required to pass ballot. (Sample calculation: 20 members eligible to vote ÷ 2 = 10 + 1 = 11)

(2) Example for Affirmative 2/3: Assuming there are 20 vote eligible committee members and 1

member did not return their ballot and 2 members abstained, the number of affirmative votes required would be 12. (Sample calculation: 20 members eligble to vote – 1 not returned – 2 abstentions = 17 x 0.66 = 11.22 = 12 ) As always please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

bbenedetti

Text Box

ATTACHMENT No. A3

of 4

Eligible to Vote: 27Not Returned : 1Gregory P. BaretaVote Selection Votes CommentsAffirmative 23Affirmative with Comment

2

David B. Wechsler no commentJack Woycheese NoneNegative 1Anthony M. Ordile The references to API Recommended Practices 752 & 753 should at best only be Annex material. Section

17.3.1 (lead-in section) already has more performance-based language then necessary. Adding 17.3.1.1 and 17.3.1.2 and indicating that the facility shall be evaluated in accordance with API 752 & 753 does not add any code enforceable language to the document and makes it impossible for code officials to determine if the evaluation has been done correctly, especially when both 752 & 753 contain numerous references to such words as 'should', 'maybe', 'may', & 'can be' throughout the text. As sources referenced in the Annex to use when doing a facility evaluation they would provide the user with good potential guidance, but forcing the user to use these API RPs by referencing them in the body of the code does not effectively serve the industry or the code officials.

Abstain 0

For two-third majority election, the affirmative votes needed are 18For Simple majority, the affirmative votes needed are 14

NFPA 30 FLC-OPS TC on Operations Second Draft Ballot Results

SR-3, New Section after 17.3.1, See SR-3

Total Voted : 26

http://submittals.nfpa.org/TerraViewWeb/FormLaunch?id=/TerraView/Content/30-2012.ditamap/2/C1372076615680.xml&viewmode=nfpa/xslt/nfpaviewmode.xsl�

of 4


2

David B. Wechsler no commentJack Woycheese NoneNegative 0Abstain 0


0

SR-6, Section No. 18.4.4, See SR-6


Total Voted : 26




of 4

Negative 1David B. Wechsler While the Committee spent considerable time drafting this new section additional work is needed to

resolve some of the following issues: 1)What is the listing requirement for the hand-operated device? 2) While pressure relief is required in item 2, where is this relief located and where must it discharge too? 3) Is the pressure limitation of not exceeding 6 psi part of the hand operated device listing or accomplished by other means and if by other means what is acceptable? 4) Is the container mentioned in 18.4.4.1 the same container as the container in item 3 limited to 119 gal? 5) Might item 3 now permit dispensing into an open container? 6) Item 4 addresses only bonding and grounding of the 'device' which may be assumed to be that in item 1; however should not the complete dispensing system be bonded and grounded?

Abstain 1Jack Woycheese My firm was retained as a consultant to a client affected by this proposal.


1

David B. Wechsler no commentNegative 0Abstain 1Jack Woycheese Our firm was retained as a consultant to a client affected by this proposal.

Total Voted : 26


SR-9, Section No. 19.2, See SR-9


of 4


1

David B. Wechsler If cooking oil defined in 19.2.1 includes waste cooking oil, and under 19.7.2.1.2 waste cooking oil storage tanks require temperature restrictions, then it appears an unintended consequence of these texts would make these temperature limits requirments under 19.7.2.2.1 and 19.7.2.2.2 (1).

Negative 0Abstain 1Jack Woycheese My firm was retained as a consultant to a client affected by this proposal.

Total Voted : 26

Total Voted : 26





National Fire Protection Association 1 Batterymarch Park, Quincy, MA 02169-7471 Phone: 617-770-3000 • Fax: 617-770-0700 • www.nfpa.org

TO: Technical Committee on Tank Storage and Piping Systems (FLC-TAN)

FROM: R. P. Benedetti, Staff Liaison

DATE: September 6, 2013

SUBJECT: NFPA 30 Second Draft TC Final Ballot Results (A2014) ____________________________________________________________________________ According to the final ballot results, all ballot items received the necessary affirmative votes to pass ballot.

28 Members Eligible to Vote 2 Ballots Not Returned (G. Bareta and E. Goldhammer) 23 Members Voted Affirmative (3 with comment on one or more Second Revisions (W. Geyer, J.

Rocco and D. Wechsler) 2 Members Voted Negative on one or more Second Revisions (J. Cignatta and S. Curran) 1 Member Abstained on one or more Second Revisions (S. Curran) The attached report shows the number of affirmative, negative, and abstaining votes as well as the explanation of the vote for each second revision.

There are two criteria necessary for each second revision to pass ballot: (1) simple majority and (2) affirmative 2/3 vote. The mock examples below show how the calculations are determined.

(1) Example for Simple Majority: Assuming there are 20 vote eligible committee members, 11 affirmative votes are required to pass ballot. (Sample calculation: 20 members eligible to vote ÷ 2 = 10 + 1 = 11) (2) Example for Affirmative 2/3: Assuming there are 20 vote eligible committee members and 1 member did not return their ballot and 2 members abstained, the number of affirmative votes required would be 12. (Sample calculation: 20 members eligble to vote – 1 not returned – 2 abstentions = 17 x 0.66 = 11.22 = 12 ) As always please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

Page 1 of 7

Eligible to Vote: 28Not Returned : 2Edward S. Goldhammer,Gregory P. BaretaVote Selection Votes CommentsAffirmative 24Affirmative with Comment 1David B. Wechsler no commentNegative 0Abstain 1Sullivan D. Curran no comments

Eligible to Vote: 28Not Returned : 2Edward S. Goldhammer,Gregory P. BaretaVote Selection Votes CommentsAffirmative 23

Total Voted : 26

NFPA 30 FLC-TAN TC on Tank Storage and Piping Systems

SR-13, Section No. 22.11.4.1, See SR-13


SR-14, Section No. 22.11.4.6, See SR-14

Page 2 of 7



Affirmative with Comment 2David B. Wechsler no commentWayne B. Geyer The committee statement on this revision appears incorrect. The simple

reason for this change is that Table 22.4.2.1 already contains the 3-foot minimum, so there's no reason for this to be re-stated in the text of 22.11.4.6.

Negative 0Abstain 1Sullivan D. Curran no comments

Eligible to Vote: 28Not Returned : 2Edward S. Goldhammer,Gregory P. BaretaVote Selection Votes CommentsAffirmative 23

For Simple majority, the affirmative votes needed are 15

Total Voted : 26

For two-third majority election, the affirmative votes needed are 18


Page 3 of 7


Affirmative with Comment 2David B. Wechsler Strike the phrase 'including but not limited to' and use the original term

'such as' so that the defined term reads in a consistent manner with the originating text. Also the phrase 'including but not limited to' may imply conditions not addressed nor considered by the Committee. The revised paragraph would read as follows: Materials that melt at a low temperature, such as aluminum, copper, or brass; materials that soften on fire exposure, such as plastics; or nonductile materials, such as cast iron.

Wayne B. Geyer It is recognized that this change makes use of the "low melting point" terminology that is currently in Chapter 27 and has been for a long time. Nevertheless, the term doesn't seem to fit the definition when one considers that copper, aluminum, brass and cast iron melt at temperatures ranging from about 1,200F for aluminum to over 2,000F for cast iron. Those don't really seem to be "low" melting points. Perhaps this is something that should be given closer scrutiny in the next cycle.

Page 4 of 7

Negative 1Sullivan D. Curran 27.2.4 Delete "plastics"; replace with "thermosetting plastics" Reason for

change: using the term "plastics" is too broad and includes thermosetting plastics which are not softeened when heated (see Websters) 1. Websters define "plastics" as "mostly thermoplastics or thermosetting polymers" Websters defines Thermoplastic as "capable of softening or fusing when heated" Websters define Thermosetting as "capable of becoming permanently rigid when heated or cured" 2. The US Chemical Safety & Hazard Investigation Board March 2007 report page 30 recommendation was "Revise NFPA 30 to specifically exclude the use of thermoplastics in aboveground flammable liquid service."...NOT thermosetting plastics!! 3. Thermosetting plastic piping is used in off-shore sea water deluge fire protection systems, marine piping per ASTM F 1173 and other aboveground applications where internal corrosion will clog fire sprinkler heads and weight is a factor

Abstain 0

Eligible to Vote: 28Not Returned : 2Edward S. Goldhammer,Gregory P. BaretaVote Selection Votes Comments

Total Voted : 26



Page 5 of 7


Affirmative 23Affirmative with Comment 1David B. Wechsler no commentNegative 1John V. Cignatta 27.4.4.4 includes three conditions where low melting point material valves

can be used. The second two conditions are far too broad and will permit brass and bronze valves in areas subject to fire damage. Suggest that second and third conditions be replaced with "They are located within a fire rated enclosure"

Abstain 1Sullivan D. Curran no comments

Eligible to Vote: 28Not Returned : 2Edward S. Goldhammer,Gregory P. BaretaVote Selection Votes CommentsAffirmative 23Affirmative with Comment 2

Total Voted : 26


SR-15, New Section after A.21.7.1, See SR-15

Page 6 of 7


James R. Rocco While fencing is an option for securing an isolated tank, its prominence in this appendix item as the first item may encourage fencing as a primary alternative. Fences can be easily climbed by an individual intent on accessing a tank. Locking valves and electrical, in many cases, will provide sufficient security. I would prefer that fencing be removed as an option or moved to the end of the list.

David B. Wechsler no commentNegative 0Abstain 1Sullivan D. Curran no comments

Total Voted : 26


Page 7 of 7

From: Sully CurranTo: [email protected]; Benedetti, Bob; [email protected]: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]: Re: NFPA 30 FLC-TAN Task Group Discussion MaterialsDate: Sunday, June 16, 2013 5:05:56 PM

Dear All:On the subject of thermoset plastic aboveground tank acceptance by fire codes, the 2009 updatedInternational Building Code (IBC) has approved the use of fiberglass water tanks in buildings based onflame-spread and smoke obscuration criteria. The tanks may be used indoors where Class B materialsare allowed and where used as a fire tank, it should be placed in a sprinkler protected room per NFPA22. However, in Class A applications it may be coated on the outside with intumescent paint asrecommended by the Institute in NFPA 22. Below is ASTM E 84 Surface Burning Testing information on thermoset plastic for flame spread.Flame Spread Index ( FSI) = 60; versus AHJ categories of Class A (1-25); B (26-75); C (76-200)Sully Curran-----Original Message-----From: Wayne Geyer <[email protected]>To: Benedetti, Bob <[email protected]>; Robert Renkes <[email protected]>Cc: Curran, Sully <[email protected]>; Haines, Steve <[email protected]>; Kraus, Dick<[email protected]>Sent: Tue, Jun 11, 2013 1:00 amSubject: RE: NFPA 30 FLC-TAN Task Group Discussion Materials

There are so many different types of aboveground storage tank installations. With thissection, I’m sure most people are thinking of large terminal facilities, with the pipinginstalled aboveground. But the CSB study was made upon a shop-fabricated AST storingmethanol. The most popular types of shop-fabricated AST installations being made today are for bulkplants, for fleet fueling, and for fuel storage for emergency power. Aboveground shop-fabsteel tanks used for motor vehicle fueling had to emulate a buried tank by code, and weretested for two hours at 2000 degrees. I think it used UL 1709 as its basis, and thenbecame UL 2085. Wouldn’t it look unusual to have a UL 2085 fire rated AST connected to aboveground non-metallic pipe that is not fire resistant. A lot of these tanks are installed closer to buildingsand property lines due to their construction. That being said, I have not seen non-metallictank being used aboveground for these applications, but the Code does allow it. Wayne Geyer From: Benedetti, Bob [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 10:29 AMTo: Robert RenkesCc: Curran, Sully; Wayne Geyer; Haines, Steve; Kraus, DickSubject: RE: NFPA 30 FLC-TAN Task Group Discussion Materials I know. That’s always bothered me. We should have some kind of definitive description or reference to a test. From: Robert Renkes [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 11:24 AMTo: Benedetti, BobSubject: RE: NFPA 30 FLC-TAN Task Group Discussion Materials

mailto:[email protected]







mailto:[email protected]?


bbenedetti

Text Box

ATTACHMENT No. A4

Do we need to say what we mean by “resistant” to damage by fire? We don’t defineresistant. Bob Bob RenkesExecutive Vice President/General CounselPEIP. O. Box 2380, Tulsa, OK 74101918-494-9696 Follow me on Twitter! From: Benedetti, Bob [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 10:12 AMTo: Curran, Sully; Geyer, Wayne; Haines, Steve; Kraus, Dick; Renkes, BobSubject: FW: NFPA 30 FLC-TAN Task Group Discussion Materials TO: NFPA 30 FLCTAN Task Group 5 Please review and provide me with your comments. From: Stephen Haines [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 1:55 PMTo: Benedetti, BobSubject: RE: NFPA 30 FLC-TAN Task Group Discussion Materials Bob, I bit the bullet and tries to word smith something for task Group 5 (Committee Input No. 17-NFPA 30-2012 [ Section No. 27.4.4 ]). Please, take a look, word smith and circulate asyou see fit. Thanks, Stephen W. Haines, PE (PA, NJ), CFEIPresident/Principal Consultant - II Haines Fire & Risk Consulting1 Linda Lane, Suite BSouthampton, NJ 08088Phone: 609-388-4467Fax: 609-388-4468Cell: 609-661-2860Skype: stephen.hainesWebsite: http://www.hainesfire-risk.com

Notice - Haines Fire & Risk Consulting (HFRC) accepts no liability for the content of this email or for theconsequences of any actions taken on the basis of the opinions, recommendations or information provided

unless they are confirmed in a written report prepared in accordance with its quality control procedures. If youare not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance

on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.

http://twitter.com/#!/BobRenkesPEI



http://www.hainesfire-risk.com/

See our website for info. on: TurboDraft Fire Eductor, WATERWAY FIRE HOSE TESTING From: Benedetti, Bob [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 11:10 PMTo: Benedetti, BobCc: Matthews, DianeSubject: NFPA 30 FLC-TAN Task Group Discussion Materials To: NFPA 3O FLC-TAN Task Groups Attached are materials for the June 7, 2013 conference calls, arranged in Task Group order. Each consists of (in this order):- Original Committee Input (Potential Amendments / Research Items from NFPA 30 First Draft Meeting)- Public Comments received on the Committee Input, if any.- Relevant information, if any.- Proposed Second Draft Amendment, if any. Understand that you will have the discussion materials for all five Task Groups, so feel free to weigh in.


From: Sully CurranTo: [email protected]; Benedetti, Bob; [email protected]: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]: Re: NFPA 30 FLC-TAN Task Group Discussion MaterialsDate: Sunday, June 16, 2013 5:05:56 PM

Dear All:On the subject of thermoset plastic aboveground tank acceptance by fire codes, the 2009 updatedInternational Building Code (IBC) has approved the use of fiberglass water tanks in buildings based onflame-spread and smoke obscuration criteria. The tanks may be used indoors where Class B materialsare allowed and where used as a fire tank, it should be placed in a sprinkler protected room per NFPA22. However, in Class A applications it may be coated on the outside with intumescent paint asrecommended by the Institute in NFPA 22. Below is ASTM E 84 Surface Burning Testing information on thermoset plastic for flame spread.Flame Spread Index ( FSI) = 60; versus AHJ categories of Class A (1-25); B (26-75); C (76-200)Sully Curran-----Original Message-----From: Wayne Geyer <[email protected]>To: Benedetti, Bob <[email protected]>; Robert Renkes <[email protected]>Cc: Curran, Sully <[email protected]>; Haines, Steve <[email protected]>; Kraus, Dick<[email protected]>Sent: Tue, Jun 11, 2013 1:00 amSubject: RE: NFPA 30 FLC-TAN Task Group Discussion Materials

There are so many different types of aboveground storage tank installations. With thissection, I’m sure most people are thinking of large terminal facilities, with the pipinginstalled aboveground. But the CSB study was made upon a shop-fabricated AST storingmethanol. The most popular types of shop-fabricated AST installations being made today are for bulkplants, for fleet fueling, and for fuel storage for emergency power. Aboveground shop-fabsteel tanks used for motor vehicle fueling had to emulate a buried tank by code, and weretested for two hours at 2000 degrees. I think it used UL 1709 as its basis, and thenbecame UL 2085. Wouldn’t it look unusual to have a UL 2085 fire rated AST connected to aboveground non-metallic pipe that is not fire resistant. A lot of these tanks are installed closer to buildingsand property lines due to their construction. That being said, I have not seen non-metallictank being used aboveground for these applications, but the Code does allow it. Wayne Geyer From: Benedetti, Bob [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 10:29 AMTo: Robert RenkesCc: Curran, Sully; Wayne Geyer; Haines, Steve; Kraus, DickSubject: RE: NFPA 30 FLC-TAN Task Group Discussion Materials I know. That’s always bothered me. We should have some kind of definitive description or reference to a test. From: Robert Renkes [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 11:24 AMTo: Benedetti, BobSubject: RE: NFPA 30 FLC-TAN Task Group Discussion Materials








mailto:[email protected]?


bbenedetti

Text Box

ATTACHMENT No. A4

Do we need to say what we mean by “resistant” to damage by fire? We don’t defineresistant. Bob Bob RenkesExecutive Vice President/General CounselPEIP. O. Box 2380, Tulsa, OK 74101918-494-9696 Follow me on Twitter! From: Benedetti, Bob [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 10:12 AMTo: Curran, Sully; Geyer, Wayne; Haines, Steve; Kraus, Dick; Renkes, BobSubject: FW: NFPA 30 FLC-TAN Task Group Discussion Materials TO: NFPA 30 FLCTAN Task Group 5 Please review and provide me with your comments. From: Stephen Haines [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 1:55 PMTo: Benedetti, BobSubject: RE: NFPA 30 FLC-TAN Task Group Discussion Materials Bob, I bit the bullet and tries to word smith something for task Group 5 (Committee Input No. 17-NFPA 30-2012 [ Section No. 27.4.4 ]). Please, take a look, word smith and circulate asyou see fit. Thanks, Stephen W. Haines, PE (PA, NJ), CFEIPresident/Principal Consultant - II Haines Fire & Risk Consulting1 Linda Lane, Suite BSouthampton, NJ 08088Phone: 609-388-4467Fax: 609-388-4468Cell: 609-661-2860Skype: stephen.hainesWebsite: http://www.hainesfire-risk.com

Notice - Haines Fire & Risk Consulting (HFRC) accepts no liability for the content of this email or for theconsequences of any actions taken on the basis of the opinions, recommendations or information provided

unless they are confirmed in a written report prepared in accordance with its quality control procedures. If youare not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance

on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.

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See our website for info. on: TurboDraft Fire Eductor, WATERWAY FIRE HOSE TESTING From: Benedetti, Bob [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 11:10 PMTo: Benedetti, BobCc: Matthews, DianeSubject: NFPA 30 FLC-TAN Task Group Discussion Materials To: NFPA 3O FLC-TAN Task Groups Attached are materials for the June 7, 2013 conference calls, arranged in Task Group order. Each consists of (in this order):- Original Committee Input (Potential Amendments / Research Items from NFPA 30 First Draft Meeting)- Public Comments received on the Committee Input, if any.- Relevant information, if any.- Proposed Second Draft Amendment, if any. Understand that you will have the discussion materials for all five Task Groups, so feel free to weigh in.


NFPA 30 Provisions for Low Melting Point Piping Materials [Changes in Paragraph Numbering Not Shown]

1) 1966 through 1972 Editions 3150 When low melting point materials such as aluminum and brass or materials which soften on fire exposure such as plastics, or nonductile material such as cast iron are necessary, special consideration shall be given to their behavior on fire exposure. If such materials are used in aboveground piping systems or inside buildings, they shall be suitably protected against fire exposure or so located that any leakage resulting from the failure of these materials could not unduly expose persons, important buildings, or structures, or can be readily controlled by remote valves.

2) 1973 through 1987 Editions 3140 Low melting point materials such as aluminum, copper, and brass; or materials which soften on fire exposure such as plastics; or nonductile material such as cast iron, may be used underground for all flammable and combustible liquids within the pressure and temperature limits of ANSI B31, American National Standard Code for Pressure Piping. If such materials are used outdoors in aboveground piping systems handling Class I, Class II, or Class IIIA liquids or within buildings handling any liquid they shall be either: (a) suitably protected against fire exposure (b) so located that any leakage resulting from the failure will not unduly expose persons, important buildings, or structures, or (c) located where leakage can readily be controlled by operation of an accessible remotely located valve(s).

3) 1990 & 1993 Editions 3-3.4 Low melting point materials such as aluminum, copper, and brass, materials that soften on fire exposure such as plastics, or nonductile material such as cast iron shall be permitted to be used underground for all liquids within the pressure and temperature limits of ANSI B31, American National Standard Code for Pressure Piping. If such materials are used outdoors in aboveground piping systems handling Class I, Class II, or Class IIIA liquids or within buildings handling any liquid they shall be either: (a) suitably protected against fire exposure (b) so located that any leakage resulting from the failure will not unduly expose persons, important buildings, or structures, or (c) located where leakage can readily be controlled by operation of an accessible remotely located valve(s).

4) 1996 Edition 3-3.4 Low melting point materials such as aluminum, copper, and brass, materials that soften on fire exposure such as plastics, or nonductile material such as cast iron shall be permitted to be used underground for all liquids within the pressure and temperature limits of ANSI B31, American National Standard Code for Pressure Piping. If such materials are used outdoors in aboveground piping systems handling Class I, Class II, or Class IIIA liquids or within buildings handling any liquid they shall be either: (a) resistant to damage by fire, (b) so located that any leakage resulting from the failure will not unduly expose persons, important buildings, or structures, or (c) located where leakage can readily be controlled by operation of an accessible remotely located valve(s).

5) 2000 Edition 3.3.4 Low Melting Point Materials. Low melting point materials such as aluminum, copper, and brass; materials that soften on fire exposure such as plastics; or nonductile material such as cast iron shall be permitted to be used underground within the pressure and temperature limitations of

ASME B31, Code for Pressure Piping. Such materials shall be permitted to be used outdoors above ground or inside buildings provided that they are as follows: (1) Resistant to damage by fire (2) Located so that any leakage resulting from failure will not unduly expose persons, important buildings, or structures (3) Located where leakage can readily be controlled by operation of one or more accessible remotely located valves The piping materials chosen shall be compatible with the liquids being handled. Piping systems of these materials shall be designed and built in accordance with recognized standards of design for the particular materials chosen or with acceptable equivalent standards or shall be listed.

6) 2003 Edition 5.3.4 Low Melting Point Materials. Low melting point materials such as aluminum, copper, and brass; materials that soften on fire exposure such as plastics; or nonductile material such as cast iron shall be permitted to be used underground within the pressure and temperature limitations of ASME B31, Code for Pressure Piping. 5.3.4.1 Such materials shall be permitted to be used outdoors above ground or inside buildings provided they meet one of the following conditions: (1) They are resistant to damage by fire. (2) They are located so that any leakage resulting from failure will not unduly expose persons, important buildings, or structures. (3) They are located where leakage can readily be controlled by operation of one or more accessible remotely located valves. 5.3.4.2 The piping materials chosen shall be compatible with the liquids being handled. Piping systems of these materials shall be designed and built in accordance with recognized standards of design for the particular materials chosen or with acceptable equivalent standards or shall be listed.

7) 2008 & 2012 Editions 27.4.4 Low Melting Point Materials. Low melting point materials such as aluminum, copper, and brass; materials that soften on fire exposure such as plastics; or nonductile materials such as cast iron shall be permitted to be used underground within the pressure and temperature limitations of ASME B31, Code for Pressure Piping. 27.4.4.1 Such materials shall be permitted to be used outdoors above ground or inside buildings, provided they meet one of the following conditions: (1) They are resistant to damage by fire. (2) They are located so that any leakage resulting from failure will not expose persons, important buildings, or structures. (3) They are located where leakage can be controlled by operation of one or more accessible, remotely located valves. 27.4.4.2 The piping materials chosen shall be compatible with the liquids being handled. 27.4.4.3 Piping systems of these materials shall be designed and built in accordance with recognized standards of design for the particular materials chosen or with approved equivalent standards or shall be listed.

FLAMMABLE AND COMBUSTIBLE LIQUIDS CODE ......Address List No Phone Flammable and Combustible Liquids...

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