HI STORY OF THE

U. S . FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION

I n t e r v i e w between:

S t u a r t E. Schoonover, Re t i red

Indus t r y Re la t ions O f f i ce r ,

New York D i s t r i c t

and

Fred L. Lo fsvo ld

Food and Drug Admin i s t ra t i on

Woodbridge, Nebv Jersey

May 3 , 1982

This i s a t ranscr ip t ion of a taped interview, one of a

s e r i e s conductecl by Robert G . Porter and Fred L. Lofsvold,

r e t i r e d employees of the U. S. Food and Drug Administration.

The interviews were held w i t h r e t i r e d F.D.A. employees

whose recol lect ions may serve t o enrich the wr i t t en record.

I t i s hoped that these narra t ives of things past will serve

a s source material f o r present and fu ture researchers; t h a t

the s t o r i e s of important accomplishments, i n t e r e s t i ng events,

and dist inguished leaders wi l l f ind a place in t ra in ing and

or ien ta t ion of new employees, and may b e useful t o enhance

the morale of the organization; and f i n a l l y , that they will

be of value t o Dr. James Harvey Young in the wri t ing of the

his tory of the Food and Drug Administration.

The tapes and t ranscr ip t ions will become a par t of the

co l lec t ion of the National Library of Medicine and copies of

the t ranscr ip t ions will be placed in the Library of Emory

University.

---

Food and Drug Administration Room 500 U.S.Customhouse 721 19th Street Denver. Colorado 80202 303-837-491 5

TAPE INDEX SHEET

CASSETTE NUMBE?(S) I, 2, and 3

GENERAL TOPIC OF INTERVIEW: H i s t o r y o f t h e Food a n d O r u q A d m i n i s t r a t i o n

DATE: Mav 3. 1982 PLACE: Woodbridoe, N.J. LENSTH: 148 minutes

INTERVIEWEE INTERVIEWEE

NAME: S t u a r t E. Schoonover NAME: Fred L. Lo fsvo ld

ADDRESS: . ADDRESS: U. S. Food & D r u g Admin .

Denve r , C o l o r a d o

FDA SERVICE DATES: FROM 1929 TO: 1969 RETIRED? Yes

T ITLE: I ndus t r y Re la t i ons O f f i c e r . New York D i s t r i c t ( I f r e t i r e d , t i t l e o f l a s t FDA p o s i t i o n )

CASS. SIDE EST.MIN. SUBJECT No. I no.1 oN TAPE

In t roduc t i on . Sunmary o f Schoonover's FDA Career. Inspect ions under 1906 Act. Adu l te ra ted o l i v e o i l cases. Jake Ginger i n j u r i e s . Packing s tock b u t t e r problem. Short weight b u t t e r cases. Cream Improvement Program. Lead-and a rsen ic spray res idue work. Maggots i n c h e r r i e s and b lueber r i es . Inspector t r a v e l du r ing 1930's. Lead arsenate on c a u l i f l o w e r . McKay McKinnon. McKay McKinnon (cont . ) Inspect ion a u t h o r i t y anecdotes. More on Inspector t r a v e l . Import work. Frozen egg work. She l l egg work. Incubator r e j e c t egg work. Munyon's Remedy case. D r . Carpent ie r case. D r . Carpent ier case (cont . :' I l l e g a l sa les o f Rx drugs work. Drug f a c t o r y inspect ions i n 1930's. Drug sampling surveys.

TAPE INDEX SHEET May 3, 1982 Interviewee: Stuart E. Schoonover Interviewer: Fred L. Lafsvold Page 2 of 2

CASE. SIDE EST.MIN. PAGE NO. NO. ON TAPE NO.

SUBJECT

Walter G. Campbell. W. R. M. Wharton. J. 0. Clarke. Gift package swindle in World War II. Inspection work in 1930's.

Providence resident post. In New England Maple Syrup work.

I I I I " (cont.)

Industry Relations work. Anecdotes of trial experience. Flood work. End of recording.

T h i s i s a r e c o r d i n g i n t h e FDA o r a l h i s t o r y s e r i e s .

I l e a r e r e c o r d i n g t o d a y a n i n t e r v i e w w i t h M r . S t u a r t E .

S c h o o n o v e r a t h i s r e s i d e n c e i n N o o d b r i d g e , New J e r s e y . M r .

S c h o o n o v e r s e r v e d i n t h e Food a n d D r u g A d m i n i s t r a t i o n as a n

i n s p e c t o r a t s e v e r a l l o c a t i o n s and r e t i r e d as I n d u s t r y

g e l a t i o n s O f f i c e r a t t h e New Y o r k D i s t r i c t . The d a t e i s

May 3 , 1 9 8 2 , i n t e r v i e w e r i s F r e d L o f s v o l d .

L o f s v o l d : M r . S c h o o n o v e r w o u l d y o u b r i e f l y s k e t c h a l i t t

b i t o f y o u r b a c k g r o u n d , w h e r e y o u w e r e b o r n , w h e r e y o u w e r e

e d u c a t e d , a n d w h a t y o u d i d i n FDA?

S c h o o n o v e r : I was b o r n December 2 7 , 1 9 0 4 , P e r t h Amboy, New

J e r s e y . 1 w e n t t h r o u g h my f i r s t y e a r o f h i g h s c h o o l t h e r e

and t h e n moved t o my p r e s e n t a d d r e s s i n W o o d b r i d g e , New

J e r s e y i n 1 9 1 8 . I f i n i s h e d my t h r e e y e a r s o f h i g h s c h o o l

i n W o o d b r i d g e . F r o m t h e r e I w o r k e d b r i e f l y a s a n A s s i s t a n t

C h e m i s t i n H a y d e n C h e m i c a l C o r p o r a t i o n i n F o r d s , New

J e r s e y . I s u b s ? q u e n t l y g r a d u a t e d w i t h a d e g r e e i n h o r t i -

c u l t u r e f r o m I o w a S t a t e U n i v e r s i t y i n 1928 . I t h e n w o r k e d

f o r t h e M o o r e h e a d I n s p e c t i o n B u r e a u , c a r l o t , p e r i s h a b l e

i n s p e c t i o n . A t t h a t t i m e t h e d e p r e s s i o n was b e g i n n i n g

t o b u i l d up, and j o b s w e r e h a r d t o g e t . I w o r k e d i n

P h i l a d e l p h i a , t h e M a n h a t t a n P r o d u c e y a r d s i n New Y o r k a n d

t h e n t r a n s f e r r e d t o C l e v e l a n d .

I t u r n e d a p o s i t i o n w i t h t h e USDA i n Washington down

and t h e n went t o New York f o r one w i t h t h e Food and Drug

A d m i n i s t r a t i o n a t New York. A c t u a l l y , a t t h a t t i m e I had

a t l e a s t a few i d e a s of what t h e Food and Drug A d m i n i s t r a -

t i o n d i d . My p a r e n t s were h e r e and wanted me t o come

home.

W . R . M . Wharton was t h e n D i r e c t o r of t h e E a s t e r n

D i s t r i c t . In t h o s e d a y s t h e y had t h e E a s t e r n D i s t r i c t ,

C e n t r a l and Wes te rn D i s t r i c t s and I worked a t t h e New York

S t a t i o n f o r a b o u t f i v e y e a r s . I was t r a n s f e r r e d , a b o u t

1 9 3 4 , t o t h e Bos ton S t a t i o n and a f t e r b e i n g t h e r e f o r a

l i t t l e o v e r a y e a r I was t r a n s f e r r e d and made, t h e f i r s t

R e s i d e n t I n s p e c t o r a t P r o v i d e n c e , Rhode I s l a n d . I was

t h e r e f o r a c o u p l e o f y e a r s and came back t o B o s t o n ,

b r i e f l y , and t h e n I was t r a n s f e r r e d t o t h e C h i c a g o S t a t i o n .

J . 0. C l a r k e was t h e n head o f t h e C e n t r a l D i s t r i c t b u t was

D i r e c t o r a t New York when I was t h e r e .

Schoonove r : In t h e Ch icago S t a t i o n I h a n d l e d t h e d r u g work

f o r a w h i l e , c o l l e c t e d hundreds and hundreds o f s a m p l e s

f rom a l l o v e r t h e p l a c e . Then I went o u t on a Cream

Improvement Program t o Omaha and worked a c r o s s , back and

f o r t h t o Nebraskia, Kansas , Oklahoma and A r k a n s a s and t h e n

back t o C h i c a g o a g a i n . A l s o many i n s p e c t i o n s were made of

t o m a t o f a c t o r i e s . I had done a l o t o f c a n n i n g work i n t h e

New York S t a t i o n when I was t h e r e . In t h o s e d a y s t h e New

Y o r k S t a t i o n w e n t c l e a r t o t h e C a n a d i a n b o r d e r . Much o f

t h e summer a n d f a l l was s p e n t w o r k i n g o u t o f A l b a n y and

i n Sy racu ,se , New Y o r k . Then t h e r e w e r e c r e a m e r i e s f r o m

t h e r e t o O g d e n b u r g o n t h e b o r d e r .

F r o m C h i c a g o , a f t e r b e i n g t h e r e t h r e e y e a r s , I was

a s s i g n e d a s a R e s i d e n t I n s p e c t o r t o C l e v e l a n d .

L o f s v o l d : A b o u t w h a t y e a r was t h a t ?

S c h o o n o v e r : W i t h o u t c h e c k i n g my r e c o r d s o n i t d i r e c t l y , I

w o u l d s a y i t was j u s t b e f o r e t h e war , ' 4 2 a b o u t ' 4 1 . I

t o o k c a r e o f a s s i g n m e n t s i n n o r t h e r n O h i o . A b o u t a q u a r t e r

o f lny t i m e was s p e n t i n t h e T o l e d o a r e a , t h e r e was a g r e a t

d e a l o f wo rk t h e r e . B i l l y F o r d was t h e n , o f c o u r s e , . . . C h i e f I n s p e c t o r a t C i n c i n n a t i . S t u a r t A . P o s t l e was t h e

S t a t i o n C h i e f a t t h a t t i m e . He u s e d t o c a l l ine some

s p e c i a l name b e c a u s e h i s name was s p e l l e d t h e same as m ine .

A g a i n , a g r e a t d e a l o f c a n n e r y work i n w e s t e r n O h i o and , o f

c o u r s e , I n d i a n a .

T h e n I was t r a n s f e r r e d , d u r i n g t h e f i r s t p a r t o f t h e

war , t o t h e New Y o r k S t a t i o n . T h a t t r a n s f e r came a b o u t

b e c a u s e o f a p a p e r t h a t was s e n t a r o u n d i n d i c a t i n g w h a t

D i s t r i c t s d e s i r e d t r a n s f e r e e s , i f t h e y c o u l d make i t s i n c e

t h e w a r h a d s t a r t e d . We h a d a h o u s e h e r e so , I s a i d t h a t I

w a s n ' t a s k i n g t o go b u t f o r t h e good o f t h e s e r v i c e i f t h e y

w a n t e d me t o go I w o u l d . So, t h e ax f e l l a n d away I w e n t .

I h a d an e x c e l l e n t , w o n d e r f u l t i m e a t C l e v e l a n d . W a l t

Simmons was t h e n C h i e f I n s p e c t o r o f t h e C h i c a g o o f f i c e .

I n New Y o r k ...t r y i n g t o t h i n k , I t h i n k C h a r l i e

H e r r m a n was C h i e f o f t h e S t a t i o n t h e n .

L o f s v o l d : W o u l d M c K i n n o n h a v e b e e n h e r e ?

S c h o o n o v e r : M c C i n n o n ? Yes, M c K i n n o n was t o o . I h a d

w o r k e d w i t h M c K i n n o n as a n i n s p e c t o r , many, many t i m e s . I

c o u l d t e l l y o u a l l s o r t s o f s t o r i e s a b o u t M c K i n n o n , b o y , h e

was q u i t e a man. O f c o u r s e , he has p a s s e d on now. He

p h o n e d me f r o m San F r a n c i s c o when h e was D i r e c t o r t h e r e , a t

o n e t i m e , a n d w a n t e d me t o come o u t a n d b e h i s C h i e f

I n s p e c t o r , b u t t : ha t f e l l t h r o u g h .

L o f s v o l d : And y o u s t a y e d t h e n i n New Y o r k f o r t h e r e s t o f

y o u r c a r e e r ?

S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , y e s . F r o m New Y o r k a n d w h i l e p r e v i o u s l y

i n New Y o r k I h a d b e e n i n Newark as R e s i d e n t I n s p e c t o r , i n

f a c t I s e r v e d o n e t e r m o f e i g h t y e a r s a s R e s i d e n t I n s p e c t o r

a t Newark .

L e t ' s see, t o go b a c k , no, t h e n rom.. .wh i l e a t New

Y o r k I was s e n t a s C h i e f I n s p e c t o r t o t h e C i n c i n n a t i D i s -

t r i c t a n d I w o r k e d t h e r e f o r a c o u p l e o f y e a r s . I t h e n r a n

i n t o some d i f f i c u l t i e s w i t h my home o e r a t io n s a n d I a s k e d

t h a t I b e s e n t b a c k t o New Y o r k , w h i c h t h e y w e r e a g r e e a b l e

t o and s o I r e t u r n e d h e r e much t o my d i s m a y a n d c o n s t e r n a -

t i o n . Some t i m e s y o u h a v e t o do w h a t y o u t h i n k i s b e s t f o r

y o u r l i f e a n d s o i t w o r k e d o u t .

T h e n I was a s s i g n e d , i n t h e u s u a l r o u t i n e o f t h i n g s ,

t o h o l d h e a r i n g s a n d s u p e r v i s o r y i n s p e c t o r work . I w o r k e d

w i t h C h a r l i e H e r r m a n o n many d i f f e r e n t t y p e s o f a s s i g n -

m e n t s , e s p e c i a l l y when we were t r a n s f e r r e d f r o m 2 0 1 V a r i c k

S t r e e t , t h e A p p r a i s e r s S t o r e s B u i l d i n g t o t h e a r o o k l y n

o f f i c e . T h e r e I c o n t i n u e d as S u p e r v i s o r y I n s p e c t o r f o r

s e v e r a l y e a r s and t h e n I was made, I g u e s s , t h e f i r s t

I n d u s t r y R e l a t i o n s O f f i c e r i n t h e c o u n t r y . I w o r k e d u p a

p r o g r a m t h e r e t h a t was v e r y e n j o y a b l e . O f c o u r s e , p z r t l y

made s o b e c a u s e P u e r t o R i c o was i n o u r t e r r i t o r y .

L o f s v o l d : And y o u r e t i r e d i n w h a t y e a r ?

S c h o o n o v e r : I r e t i r e d i n 1 9 6 9 .

L o f s v o l d : S t u a r t , when y o u f i r s t r e p o r t e d f o r d u t y h e r e i n

New Y o r k , how Inany p e o p l e were i n t h e o f f i c e a t t h a t t i m e ?

S c h o o n o v e r : I w o u l d s a y a b o u t t e n I n s p e c t ~ r s . The I m p o r t

D i v i s i o n was i n t h e same r o o m w i t h t h e I n s p e c t o r s and t h e r e

w e r e a b o u t f i v e I mp o r t I n s p e c t o r s . I n t h o s e d a y s , t o o , we

h a n d l e d t h e I n s e c t i c i d e A c t .

L o f s v o l d : And t h e N a v a l S t o r e s A c t a n d t h e C a u s t i c P o i s o n s

A c t .

S c h o o n o v e r : A man b y t h e name o f S m i t h , S m i t t y , was a

N a v a l S t o r e s o p e r a t o r , i n s p e c t o r , and he knew how t o c h i p

r o s i n w i t h a l i t t l e a x e t h e y h a d and s a m p l e i t . I remember

h i m t e l l i n g a s t o r y a b o u t , he was r a i s e d as a b o y i n

G e o r g i a and h i s f a t h e r had a b u s i n e s s , N a v a l S t o r e s , t u r -

p e n t i n e , e t c . , and t h e y h a d a w h o l e d o c k l o a d e d , one t i m e ,

w i t h t u r p e n t i n e a n d r o s i n w a i t i n g f o r a b o a t t o come a n d

p i c k i t up and t h e t h i n g c a u g h t o n f i r e a n d away i t w e n t .

L o f s v o l d : Oh, my.

S c h o o n o v e r : Then f r o m t i m e t o t i m e I was a s s i g n e d , when

t h e i m p o r t men ,were o v e r w o r k e d , t o go o u t a n d h e l p w i t h

c o l l e c t i n g i m p o r t s a m p l e s . I u s e d t o go o u t o n c e i n a

w h i l e e v e n w i t h J o h n n y Z a i c a n d h e l p o n i m p o r t s a n d he, f o r

a w h i l e , was t h e Tea E x a m i n e r i n t h e o f f i c e .

L o f s v o l d : Was H u t c h i n s o n h e r e t h e n ?

S c h o o n o v e r : Yes.

L o f s v o l d : Was t h a t when we w o r k e d s e v e n h o u r s a d a y f o r

f i v e d a y s a n d t n e n f i v e h o u r s on S a t u r d a y s ?

S c h o o n o v e r : Y o u ' r e r i g h t . Y o u ' r e r i g h t .

L o f s v o l d : We w,are s t i l l d o i n g t h a t when I s t a r t e d i n

1 9 3 9 .

S c h o o n o v e r : T h e n I b e l i e v e L i n t o n was h e a d o f t h e F i n a n c e

i n W a s h i n g t o n a n d a b o u t t h a t t i m e h e f o u n d t h a t we w e r e

w o r k i n g o n e h o u r l e s s t h a n we s h o u l d o n S a t u r d a y . So, we

h a d t o w o r k a n e x t r a h o u r and t h a t l o u s e d up t h e t r a i n

s c h e d u l e a n d I c o u l d n ' t p l a y my s e m i - p r o b a l l on S a t u r d a y

a f t e r n o o n .

L o f s v o l d : What k i n d s o f i n d u s t r i e s w e r e y o u i n t o i n t h o s e

d a y s ?

S c h o o n o v e r : I was a s s i g n e d , p r i m a r i l y , f o r a l m o s t f i v e

y e a r s , t o c a n d y f a c t o r y i n s p e c t i o n s . B e l i e v e i t o r n o t we

had a l m o s t 300 f a c t o r i e s m a n u f a c t u r i n g c a n d y . O f c o u r s e ,

as I did, o u r t e r r i t o r y r a n t o t h e C a n a d i a n b o r d e r a n d we

h a d f a c t o r i e s i n Oswego, F u l t o n , a n d a l l o v e r t h e p l a c e .

Many o f t h e m w e r e h a r d c a n d y m a n u f a c t u r e r s , t h e s m a l l t y p e

b u t t h e y d i d s h i p i n i n t e r s t a t e commerce. A l s o , we h a d a t

l e a s t a d o z e n o r more l a r g e c h o c o l a t e m a n u f a c t u r e r s a n d i n

t h o s e d a y s t h e y b o u g h t t h e i r b e a n s and made t h e i r own

c h o c o l a t e . They r o a s t e d , c r a c k e d a n d f a n n e d t h e m e t c .

Now, i n l a t e r y e a r s , many o f t h e c h o c o l a t e m a n u f a c t u r e r s

p u r c h a s e d t h e i r c h o c o l a t e i n t a n k t r u c k l o t s . We h a d a l l

s o r t s o f v i o l a t i o n s a n d l i t e r a l l y h u n d r e d s o f s a m p l e s , a l l

t h e t i m e c h e c k i n g o n t h e a d u l t e r a t i o n , e v e n t h e p e r c e n t a g e

o f f i b e r , when t h e y h a d t o o much o f t h e s h e l l . The t w o

ana y s t s i n t h e l a b o r a t o r y t h a t w e r e m a i n l y r e s p o n s i b l e f o r

ana y s e s w e r e D o r o t h y S c o t t a n d N a r i e O f f u t t and t h e n

J a b o n s k i d i d t h e c o l o r work.

L o f v o l d : T h a t was d o n e a l l u n d e r t h e 1 9 0 6 A c t .

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t .

L o f s v o l d : B e f o r e we h a d t h e a u t h o r i t y f o r f a c t o r y

i n s p e c t i o n s .

S c h o o n o v e r : The new a u t h o r i t y d i d n ' t come u n t i l I was i n

t h e C h i c a y o D i s t r i c t , J . 0. C l a r k e , o f c o u r s e . I m i g h t

m e n t i o n t h a t he s e n t a n o t e a r o u n d t h a t t h e I n s p e c t o r s a l l

h a d t o s t u d y t h e new A c t and t h a t he i n t e n d e d t o s t o p t h e m

i n t h e h a l l w a y s a n d ask q u e s t i o n s o f e v e r y s o r t a n d t h e y

h a d b e t t e r l e a r i . You n e v e r saw s u c h s c u r r y i n g i n a l l y o u r

l i f e a n d h i d i n g a r o u n d c o r n e r s .

L o f s v o l d : T r y i ; i g t o a v o i d J. 0.

S c h o o n o v e r : T h e y w o u l d t a k e a peek f i r s t a n d t h e n go o n

t h e i r way.

L o f s v o l d : I n t h o s e d a y s b e f o r e we h a d a u t h o r i t y i n t h e A c t

t o make f a c t o r y i n s p e c t i o n s , d i d y o u h a v e much o f a p r o b l e m

o f b e i n g r e f u s e d p e r m i s s i o n t o i n s p e c t ?

S c h o o n o v e r : No. The o n l y p r o b l e m was s o m e t i m e s i n t h e

a r e a o f t a k i n g p i c t u r e s . W h i l e t h e A c t v e r y l o o s e l y s a

t h a t we h a d t h e r i g h t t o make a n i n s p e c t i o n t h e e x a c t

a u t h o r i t y wasn ' t : s p e l l e d o u t .

L o f s v o l d : When y o u b r o u g h t a c a s e a g a i n s t o n e o f t h e s e

c a n d y f a c t o r i e s u n d e r t h e 1906 l a w , c o u l d y o u p r e s e n t

t e s t i m o n y a b o u t t h e f a c t o r y i n s p e c t i o n , d u r i n g t h e t r i a l ?

S c h o o n o v e r : Yes, w i t h 1 i m i t a t i o n s .

L o f s v o l d : M o s t l y y o u h a d t o t e s t i f y as t o w h a t t h e l a b o r -

a t o r y f o u n d i n t h e s a m p l e .

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . I n l a t e r y e a r s , o f c o u r s e , we

d e t a i 1 ed.. . L o f s v o l d : Oh, y e s , t h e ' 3 8 A c t i t c h a n g e d t h i n g s d r a s -

t i c a l l y , b u t I was c u r i o u s a b o u t b e f o r e t h e ' 3 8 A c t w h e t h e r

t h e c o u r t w o u l d l e t y o u t e s t i f y a b o u t w h a t y o u saw i n t h e

f a c t o r y .

S c h o o n o v e r : O f c o u r s e , y o u c o u l d n ' t t e s t i f y a b o u t f i l t h ,

t h a t was f o r s u r e . T h a t w a s n ' t i n c l u d e d i n t h e f i r s t A c t .

I t was m a i n l y on t h e s a m p l e s t h a t w e r e c o l l e c t e d and t h e

f i l t h t h a t was f o u n d . You t e s t i f i e d a s t o t h e i n t e r s t a t e

a c c o u n t a b i l i t y o f t h e samp le . Then t h e c h e m i s t w o u l d t e s -

t i f y w h a t was f o u n d . N o t so much t h e e v i d e n c e o f i n s p e c -

t i o n . W i t h t h e ' 3 8 A c t , o f c o u r s e , t h e n t h a t c l e a r e d t h e

way.

G o i n g b a c k t o P r o v i d e n c e . . . . We d i d a l o t o f w o r k on

t h e t e a s e e d o i l , t h a t t i m e , a d u l t e r a t i o n .

L o f s v o l d : T h a t was a d u l t e r a t i n g o f o l i v e o i l w i t h t e a s e e d

o i 1 ?

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t .

L o f s v o l d : Yes, I w o u l d l i k e t o h a v e y o u s a y s o m e t h i n g

a b o u t t h a t , how t h a t worked .

S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , a s f a r as I c a n remember my p a r t o f i t

h a d o n l y t o do w i t h t h e c o l l e c t i o n o f s a m p l e s a s a n a l y z e d

by t h e 1 a b o r a t o r y .

L o f s v o l d : T h a t was J a c k F i t e l s o n , I t h i n k . . . .

S c h o o n o v e r : Y o u ' r e r i g h t .

L o f s v o l d : J a c k d e v e l o p e d a new a n a l y t i c a l m e t h o d b e c a u s e

when t h e y f i r s t s t a r t e d u s i n g t e a s e e d o i l and we c o u l d n o t

t e l l i t f r o m o l i v e o i l .

S c h o o n o v e r : I t h a d t h e same s q u a l e n e c o n t e n t a b o u t a s

o l i v e o i l and t h e a n a l y s i s as I u n d e r s t a n d was a l i t t l e

d i f f i c u l t t o c h e c k b u t Food a n d D r u g b e i n g t h e s t e r n c h a r -

a c t e r i t was...

L o f s v o l d : Then t h e r e w e r e some l a t e r d e v e l o p e m e n t s i n t h a t

e r a o f t h e o l i v e o i l b u s i n e s s , a s I remember t o o , d i d n ' t

t h e y s t a r t a d d i n g a r t i f i c i a l s q u a l e n e t h a t t h e y b o u g h t f r o m

Koda k ?

S c h o o n o v e r : T h a t ' s r i g h t , i n B u f f a l o . W e l l , I w o r k e d on

t h a t q u i t e a b i t i n l a t e r y e a r s . We had... I remember t h i s

one o c c a s i o n , t h e y h a d a s e t u p w h e r e t h e r e was a n

i n d i c a t o r p u t i n t o s q u a l e n e i n B u f f a l o a n d t h e y f o l l o w e d

t h a t s h i p m e n t down t o t h e t e r m i n a l , we w a t c h e d i t b e i n g

p i c k e d u p a n d b r o u g h t t o B r o o k l y n a n d t h e c a r w e n t i n t o a

g a r a g e and l a t e r . . . I w a i t e d a l l d a y , I made b e l i e v e my

c a r b r o k e down o u t s i d e t h e m a n ' s h o u s e . He came o u t a n d

w e n t t o t h e s t o r e and when h e o p e n e d up h i s t r u n k t o p u t

h i s g r o c e r i e s i n I q u i c k l o o k e d i n t h e t r u n k , b u t e v i d e n t l y

when h e e n t e r e d t h e g a r a g e t h a t 5 g a l l o n c a n was t a k e n o u t .

I u n d e r s t a n d h e w o u l d d o c t o r u p a t a n k o f o i l , o t h e r t h a n

o l i v e o i l and make i t a n a l y z e l i k e o l i v e o i l .

L o f s v o l d : So, when we t o o k a s a m p l e a n d t o o k i t t o t h e

l a b o r a t o r y we w o u l d f i n d t h e r i g h t k i n d o f c o n s t a n t s f o r

o l i v e o i l , r i g h t ?

S c h o o n o v e r : O n e o f t h e t i m e s w a t c h i n g , i n c o n n e c t i o n w i t h

t h a t o p e r a t i o n i n B r o o k l y n , o n e o f t h e men i n v o l v e d who was

c h a r g e d f o r a d u l t e r a t i o n . . . o w n e d a d r u g s t o r e . I was

w a t c h i n g t h i s o n e p l a c e , and t h e r e was a s u s p i c i o u s f e l l o w

c o m i n g and g o i n g i n an o l d d i r t y r a i n c o a t , a l i g h t one, a n d

I t r i e d t o f o l l o w a n d k e e p c h e c k t o s e e i f t h e r e was an

c o n n e c t i o n b e t w e e n d e l i v e r i e s and.. . I n a s h o r t t i m e t h e

F B I v i s i t e d New Y o r k D i s t r i c t a n d w a n t e d t o know w h a t I was

d o i n g w a t c h i n g o n e o f t h e i r men.

L o f s v o l d : T h e y w e r e l o o k i n g f o r h i m t o o .

S c h o o n o v e r : He was i n o n t h e gang some how o r a n o t h e r , h e

was i n t h e d r u g s t o r e . T h e r e a r e a l o t o f s t o r i e s a b o u t . . .

I d i d a l o t o f w o r k o n a d u l t e r a t e d o l i v e o i l .

One t i m e J a c k C a i n was i n B r o o k l y n a n d h e w a t c h i n g

t h r o u g h a k n o t h o l e i n t h e f e n c e a t t h i s o'ne l o c a t i o n w h e r e

t h e y o b v i o u s l y w e r e a d u l t e r a t i n g o l i v e o i l , and t r y i n g t o

g e t l i c e n s e numbers f r o m c a r s , e t c . . . I c a n ' t r e c a l l t h e

name b u t a n o t h e r I n s p e c t o r i n New Y o r k D i s t r i c t w a l k e d

r i g h t i n t o t h e p l a c e a n d b l e w t h e o p e r a t i o n .

L o f s v o l d : I remember t h a t e v e n i n 1 9 5 5 when I came h e r e we

s t i l l w e r e h a v i n g p r o b l e m s w i t h a d u l t e r a t i o n o f o l i v e o i l

a n d I b e l i e v e t h a t y o u w e r e w o r k i n g o n an o i l company t h a t

was o p e r a t e d b y o n e o f t h e b i g g a n g s t e r s o v e r i n B r o o k l y n .

S c h o o n o v e r : O h , y e s , y e s . T h a t d e v e l o p e d i n t o a t r i a l ,

c o u r t c a s e i n B r o o k l y n , and t h e g u y ' s name was P r o f a c i . We

o b t a i n e d a c o u r t o r d e r t o l o o k o v e r t h e r e c o r d s o f some

f i r m h e was c o n n e c t e d w i t h a n d I d i d t h a t w i t h J o h n n y Z a i c

t o g e t p r o o f . Anyway, we f i n a l l y f o r c e d P r o f a c i t o t r i a l .

He h a d p u l l e d a l l s o r t s o f t r i c k s t h r o u g h h i s l a w y e r s , e v e n

a number o f h i s p r i e s t s a n d o t h e r s came i n a n d t o l d t h e

H e a r i n g O f f i c e r w h a t a g r e a t man he was, e t c . , a n d a l s o

w i t h t h e A s s i s t a n t U.S. A t t o r n e y t h a t h a n d l e d t h e c a s e who

h a p p e n e d t o b e a woman. So, I s a t a t t h e c o u n s e l t a b l e i n

f r o n t and s h e came i n t o me j u s t a s t h e t r i a l was a b o u t t o

s t a r t , a l i t t l e e x c i t e d , s h e s a i d , " S t u a r t w h a t s h o u l d I

do, t h a t P r o f a c i g u y t a l k e d t o me i n t h e h a l l w a y a n d

o f f e r e d me a b i g b r i b e ? " I s a i d , " D i d a n y b o d y h e a r y o u ,

was t h e r e a n y w i t n e s s , o r n o t h i n g " , s h e s a i d "No" , I s a i d ,

" W e l l , f o r g e t i t . T h e r e i s n o t h i n g t h a t y o u c a n do a b o u t

i t , i t i s h i s w o r d a g a i n s t y o u r s . " Anyway t h e t r i a l

s t a r t e d , w i t n e s s e s w e r e c a l l e d e t c . , a n d t h e y made a n

a r r a n g e m e n t a n d f o l d e d , h e p l e d a n d p a i d a f i n e a n d t h a t

was i t .

L o f s v o l d : I t h i n k t h a t we w e r e t h e o n l y F e d e r a l a g e n c y

t h a t e v e r g o t a n y k i n d o f a c o n v i c t i o n o n h im. He seemed

t o h a v e a c h a r m e d l i f e .

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . T h e n g o i n g b a c k , remember t h o s e d a y s

...t h e J a k e G i n ~ e r t r i a l ?

L o f s v o l d : T h a t was b e f o r e I s t a r t e d , b u t t h a t i s a s u b j e c t

t h a t I w o u l d l i k e t o g e t a n y t h i n g t h a t y o u c a n t e l l me

a b o u t i t .

S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , o f c o u r s e , t h a t c a s e , e x t r a c t o f o l e o r e -

s i n o f p i n e t r e e r e s i n , t h e y u s e d i t t o make u p a

p r o d u c t t h a t t a s t e d s o m e t h i n g l i k e G i n g e r . I t o p e r a t e d i n

p a r t b e t w e e n t h e Hub P r o d u c t s i n B o s t o n and a n a r e a i n Sush

T e r m i n a l , I b e l i e v e , i n B r o o k l y n . D i s t r i b u t i o n o f J a k e

G i n g e r was made d u r i n g p r o h i b i t i o n and y o u c o u l d b u y a

1 0 6 b o t t l e , o r s o m e t h i n g l i k e t h a t , a n d down i t and i t

w o u l d g i v e y o u t h e same b u r n i n g e f f e c t , a s w h i s k e y .

L o f s v o l d : T h i s was an e x t r a c t ?

S c h o o n o v e r : E x t r a c t .

L o f s v o l d : E x t r a c t o f g i n g e r t h a t was u s e d as a b e v e r a g e i n

p r o h i b i t i o n d a y s , a n d t h e s e f e l l o w s w e r e m a k i n g a k i n d o f

i m i t a t i o n o f i t .

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . I t was d o w n - r i g h t p o i s o n o u s . I n

g e t t i n g t h e i n f o r m a t i o n and p r o o f a g a i n s t t h e f i r m i n

B r o o k l y n , I remember P h i l Jackman g a v e them, n o t n e c e s -

s a r i l y a b r i b e , b u t g a v e an amount o f money t o t h e j a n i t o r

i n t h e p l a c e . He p u t t h e p a p e r s f r o m t h e i r o f f i c e i n t o a

s e p a r a t e b a g a n d many o f t h e m w e r e t o r n i n l i t t l e b i t s ,

e t c . W e l l , we k e p t t h e w h o l e c r e w a f t e r h o u r s , n i g h t a f t e r

n i g h t when t h o s e bags came b a c k a n d some w e r e f a i r l y l a r g e

and j u s t l i k e p u t t i n g t o g e t h e r a c r o s s w o r d p u z z l e , and t h e n

t a p e d t h e m t o g e t h e r a n d h a d t h a t i n f o r m a t i o n as t o names,

p l a c e s , d a t e s , a n d w h a t h a v e y o u . F i n a l l y t h e y w e r e c a u g h t

up w i t h .

L o f s v o l d : T h a t r e s u l t e d i n a number s e r i o u s i n j u r i e s ?

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . T h e y h a d l a t e r o n when I w o r k e d i n

F a l l R i v e r , a n d New B e d f o r d , t h e y h a d r e g u l a r c l u b s o r

a s s o c i a t i o n s . The p r o d u c t e f f e c t e d t h e e x t r e m i t i e s , e y e s ,

e t c . They c r i p p l e d a n i n d i v i d u a l a n d t h e y s t a y e d t h a t way

f o r t h e r e s t o f t h e i r l i f e . So many d r a n k i t t h a t t h e y h a d

1 i t t l e c l u b s . . .

A n o t h e r p r ~ ~ d u c tt h a t . . . a b i t o f w o r k t h a t l a t e r , I

d o n ' t t h i n k y o u h a v e t h a t p r o b l e m now, was c a l l e d p a c k i n g

s t o c k b u t t e r i n t h e e a r l y days . I n t h e m i d w e s t p a r t i c u -

l a r l y , p e o p l e w i t h a c o u p l e o f cows o r s o w o u l d c h u r n o u t

some b u t t e r a n d b r i n g i t i n wax p a p e r , e t c . a n d t r a d e i t

f o r g r o c e r i e s a n d t h e g r o c e r y s t o r e o w n e r w o u l d t h r o w i t

i n t o a b a r r e l u n d e r t h e c o u n t e r a n d when i t g o t f u l l , p u t a

c l o t h o v e r i t , b u r l a p , a n d s h i p i t t o t h e b u t t e r d e a l e r s i n

New Y o r k . O f c o u r s e , t h e d i f f i c u l t y t h e r e was t h a t i t was

l o a d e d w i t h i n s e c t s a n d e v e r y t h i n g e l s e t h a t h a d c r a w l e d

i n t o t h e b a r r e l .

L o f s v o l d : I t w o u l d b e s e v e r a l d a y s w h i l e he was accumu-

l a t i n g t h i s ?

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . We c o n s t a n t l y c h e c k e d o n p a c k i n g s t o c k

b u t t e r f r o m t h e d e a l e r s t h a t r e c e i v e d i t i n New Y o r k .

L o f s v o l d : What d i d t h e y d o w i t h i t t h e n ?

S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , t h e y p u t i t up.

L o f s v o l d : They j u s t p r i n t e d i t as i s and s o l d i t a s

b u t t e r ?

Schoonove r : R i g h t .

L o f s v o l d : So , even i f i t w a s n ' t d i r t y when t h e f a r m e r

d e l i v e r e d i t , t h e r e was an a w f u l l y good c h a n c e t h a t by t h e

t i m e i t was p r i n t e d t h a t i t had p i c k e d s o m e t h i n g u p a l o n g

t h e way.

Schoonove r : R i g h t . Low s c o r e b u t t e r . Then t h e r e was

c o n s i d e r a b l e work s o m e t i m e s , I d o n ' t know, t h e y p r o b a b l y

w o u l d n ' t do i t n o w , b u t remember t h e J a c k r a b b i t s i n Kansas

and o u t t h a t way. They would k i l l them and th row them i n t o

a b a r r e l , p u t b u r l a p on i t and s h i p i t t o New York.

O n one o c c a s i o n I was a s s i g n e d t o work on t h e s h o r t

we igh t pound p r i n t s o f b u t t e r . I worked a f u l l summer on

d o i n g m o s t l y t h a t , t r a v e l i n g t o e v e r y b u t t e r d e a l e r and any

p l a c e t h a t had any amount of b u t t e r , w i t h a G u r l e y b a l a n c e .

The b u t t e r v e n d o r s were l o c a t e d , a b o u t a h a l f a dozen o r

more, i n New York C i t y . They would s h i p t o J e r s e y , d e a l e r s

would phone i n and want s o many c a s e s . W e l l , t h e y would

a lways t r y t o d e l i v e r , i f a 6 4 pound t u b was o r d e r e d , t h e y

would a lways t r y t o d e l i v e r 64 pounds . B u t you know i t was

i m p o s s i b l e b e c a u s e when you s q u e e z e i t ou t you have some

w a t e r d r i p p i n g o u t of t h e mach ine , t h e r e i s a l w a y s a l i t t l e

l o s s . O n one o c c a s i o n t h e d e a l e r i n i n v o i c i n g New J e r s e y

showed t h e o v e r a g e o f two pounds.

L o f s v o l d : You mean t h e y g o t 6 6 pounds o u t of a 6 4 pound

t u b ?

S c h o o o n o v e r : Yes. So t h a t y e a r , I g u e s s i t was a b o u t 1 9

s e i z u r e s o f b u t t e r i n New J e r s e y , p r i n t e d by t h e New Y o r k

b u t t e r p r i n t e r s . T h e r e Mas s o much g o i n g on, t h a t N r .

W h a r t o n c a l l e d a m e e t i n g o f a l l t h e b u t t e r p r i n t e r s a n d

t h e y g o t t o a r g u i n g a n d t h e n a c c u s i n g one a n o t h e r s a y i n g

t h a t , " W e l l , y o u p r i n t e d s h o r t w e i g h t a n d i n o r d e r t o s t a y

i n b u s i n e s s I h a d t o p r i n t s h o r t w e i g h t " . So a f t e r t h o s e

s e i z u r e s t h e s h o r t w e i g h t c l e a r e d up, a t l e a s t f o r a w h i l e .

L o f s v o l d : You s p o k e o f t h e t u b s o f b u t t e r , w e r e t h e y

l i t e r a l l y t u b s i n t h o s e d a y s ?

S c h o o n o v e r : Oh, y e s . They w e r e r o u n d t u b s .

L o f s v o l d : O u t w e s t w h a t we h a d w e r e t h e c u b e s , t h e y

w e i g h t e d 6 4 p o u n d s b u t t h e y w e r e s q u a r e b o x e s , b u t I h a d

n e v e r s e e n t h e m u s e t u b s .

S c h o o n o v e r : We' l l , I g u e s s i t was c h e a p e r l a t e r on t o p u t a

p a r c h m e n t in s i d e o f t h a t c a r d b o a r d , b u t i n t h e e a r l y d a y s

t h e b u t t e r was s h i p p e d i n r e g u l a r t u b s .

L o f s v o l d : Wooden t u b s ?

S c h o o n o v e r : T h e y w o u l d d e l i v e r b a r g e l o a d s a c r o s s t h e

r i v e r i n New Y o r k a n d we w o u l d go down t o t h e p i e r s a n d we

w o u l d h a v e t o t a k e t h e t u b s a n d l i n e t h e m up a c c o r d i n g l y t o

c h u r n numbers . Then y o u t a k e a c c o r d i n g t o p r e s c r i b e d sam-

p l i n g m e t h o d s s o many u n i t s f r o m e a c h c h u r n . T h e y h a d a n

a r r a n g e m e n t w i t h t h e New York B u t t e r A s s o c i a t i o n , when we

p h o n e d t h e b u t t e r was d e l i v e r e d f r o m t h e p i e r , b u t h e w o u l d

h o l d t h a t b u t t e r b e f o r e u s i n g , awa i t i n g w o r d f r o m u s , f r o m

o u r l a b o r a t o r y , w h e t h e r i t was s a t i s f a c t o r y o r n o t . I t

w o r k e d a l l r i g h t .

One o f t h e p r o b l e m s i n v o l v e d i n s a m p l i n g on t h e p i e r ,

was t h e w i n d on t h e p i e r . The d i r t w o u l d f l y a r o u n d . I f

y o u w e r e n ' t q u i c k e n o u g h y o u w o u l d h a v e p e p p e r on t h e s u r -

f a c e o f t h e b u t t e r .

L o f s v o l d : C o n t a m i n a t e t h e b u t t e r w h i l e s a m p l i n g i t . You

were l o o k i n g t h e n f o r t h e 80% f a t , I suppose .

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t , h i g h m o s i t u r e . -L o f s v o l d : D i d t h a t b u t t e r m o s t l y come f r o m w h a t t h e

m i d w e s t ?

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t .

L o f s v o l d : You m e n t i o n e d e a r l i e r when y o u w e r e s k e t c h i n g

y o u r c a r e e r t h a t a t C h i c a g o y o u w e r e i n v o l v e d i n a Cream

I m p r o v e m e n t P r o g r a m .

S c h o o n o v e r : Yes, a Cream I m p r o v e m e n t P r o g r a m .

L o f s v o l d : C o u l d y o u t a l k a l i t t l e a b o u t t h a t ?

S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , t h e i n s p e c t o r s w e r e t r a i n e d on t h e t a s t -

i n g o f s a m p l e s , w h e t h e r i t was a t e r r i f i c a l l y c h e e s e y

t a s t e , a h i g h a c i d w h i c h w o u l d make y o u r t e e t h s h i v e r when

y o u t a s t e d i t , a t a s t e t h a t i s r e m i n i s c e n t o f a d i r t y

s e p a r a t o r , and o t h e r k i n d s o f t a s t e s .

L o f s v o l d : These w e r e t a s t e s t o d e t e c t a c t u a l s p o i l a g e ,

d e c o m p o s i t i o n ?

S c h o o n o v e r : T h a t i s r i g h t .

L o f s v o l d : T h a t was t h e one w h e r e y o u t o o k t h e g l a s s r o d

a n d d i p p e d i t i n , was t h a t t h e a c c e p t e d m e t h o d f o r t a s t i n g ?

S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , f r o m C h i c a g o t h e r e , t h e i n s p e c t o r s w o u l d

go t o t h e C i t y D e p a r t m e n t o f H e a l t h a n d b e i n o c u l a t e d f o r

a n y d i s e a s e s t h a t m i g h t c r o p u p i n t a s t i n g . One o f t h e

~ n a i n b a d t a s t e s was t h e c h e e s e y t a s t e f r o m a n a d v a n c e d

s t a g e o f d e c o m p o s i t i o n . A n o t h e r was f r o m o b n o x i o u s weeds

i n p a s t u r e s i n A r k a n s a s , Ok lahoma a n d t h e b o r d e r l i n e a r e a s .

Some o f t h o s e weeds h a v e a v e r y f o u l t a s t e , a n d y o u

c o u l d n ' t d e c i d e w h e t h e r i t was t h e b a d c r e a m d e c o m p o s i t i o n

o r due t o t h e weeds. Once i n a w h i l e t h e b u t t e r o p e r a t o r

i n t h e p l a c e t h a t h a d a l r e a d y t a s t e d t h e c r e a m w o u l d g i v e

t h e c r e a m c a n a k i c k , k n o w i n g l y y o u know a n d w a n t y o u t o

t h r o w t h a t o u t , b u t y o u s t i l l c o u l d n ' t t a k e h i s word . O f

c o u r s e , i f i t was j u s t a p o o r t a s t e , i t w a s n ' t decomposed.

I remember o n e t i m e i n n o r t h e r n I n d i a n a , G e o r g e Sooy

w o r k e d w i t h me, o n c e i n a w h i l e , anyway a t t h i s p l a c e I

t a s t e d t h e cream1 a n d i t was r e a l l y r o t t e n . I p u t a t a g o n

t h e c o n t a i n e r , t h e y c o u l d e i t h e r p u t b l u e d y e i n t o i t o r

g r o u n d c o a l a n d t h e y c o u l d i n f a c t t a k e i t b a c k a n d u s e i t

f o r h o g f e e d . I remember t h i s was o n e o f t h e s e c t s . . .

L o f s v o l d : The A m i s h ?

S c h o o n o v e r : I c o u l d s e e h i m s a y i n g , h e h a d b r o u g h t i n t w o

c a n s f r o m t h i s w i d o w , h e s a i d , " T h e w i d o w i s n o t g o i n g t o

l i k e t h i s " .

L o f s v o l d : You j u s t condemned i t o n t h e s p o t ?

S c h o o n o v e r : Yes.

L o f s v o l d : E v e n t h o u g h we d i d n ' t h a v e l e g a l a u t h o r i t y t o d o

S O .

S c h o o n o v e r : T h a t ' s r i g h t .

L o f s v o l d : Were t h e s t a t e s i n v o l v e d i n t h i s t o o ?

S c h o o n o v e r : The s t a t e s were w i t h u s s o m e t i m e s , b u t n o t

v e r y much.

I remember i n Muskogee, Ok lahoma I h a d a l i t t l e c o n -

f r o n t a t i o n t h e r e w i t h t h e S w i f t C r e a m e r y a n d I condemned

a b o u t h a l f o f t h e i r d a y s ' r e c e i p t s . I t h i n k ... I h a d t o go

b a c k t h e n e x t m o r n i n g , anyway t h a t c r e a m t h a t I condemned

was gone. T h e y h a d s p i r i t e d i t away t o a n o t h e r c r e a m e r y ,

a t some d i s t a n c e , a n d L e o Cramer was t h e n C h i e f I n s p e c t o r

a t C h i c a g o D i s t r i c t . He h a p p e n e d t o b e a t t h i s c r e a m e r y

w h e r e t h e y b r o u g h t i t i n and h e condemned i t a g a i n .

L o f s v o l d : Was C r a m e r a t C h i c a g o ?

S c h o o n o v e r : Yes. He was C h i e f I n s p e c t o r a t Kansas C i t y ... L o f s v o l d : Yes, I remember h e was a r e s i d e n t o f Omaha a n d

Kansas C i t y a n d D e n v e r , b u t I d i d n ' t know t h a t h e h a d

s e r v e d i n C h i c a g o t o o .

W e l l , t h a t was r e a l l y a n o r g a n i z e d c a m p a i g n j u s t t o

t r y t o do s o m e t h i n g a b o u t t h e u s e o f b a d c r e a m i n b u t t e r ?

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t .

L o f s v o l d : A l l t h r o u g h t h e m i d w e s t ? Was t h a t one o f M r .

C l a r k e ' s p r o j e c t s , o r was i t b e i n g d o n e a l l o v e r t h e

c o u n t r y ?

S c h o o n o v e r : I d o n ' t know how i t o r i g i n a t e d , w h e t h e r i t was

i n t h e A d m i n i s t r a t i o n o r w h a t , b u t t h e r e was a n a w f u l l o t

o f b a d c r e a m i n t h o s e d a y s . Some o f i t w o u l d come f r o m a

f a r m e r t h a t h a d a f e w cows a n d he w o u l d h a v e t o k e e p i t f o r

a b o u t 1 0 d a y s a ~ i d t h e y w o u l d h a v e , s o m e t i m e s i n t h e b a r n , a

l i t t l e c e m e n t t r o u g h w i t h a l i t t l e w a t e r i n i t , t a k e t h e

c o v e r o f f t h e c a n a n d l e a v e i t s t a n d t h e r e . . . I t was t h e

i n s p e c t o r ' s d e c i s i o n i n t h e f i e l d , s o m e t i m e s , when t h e c a n

was dumped o u t o n t o t h e s c r e e n o f a 5 0 0 g a l l o n t a n k a n d

t h e l a s t c a n c o n t a i n e d a d e a d r a t , w h a t t o d o a b o u t i t .

When y o u a r e i n s p e c t i n g c a n s l i k e t h e y d i d a t Omaha, some-

t i m e s t h e y w o u l d h a v e o v e r a 1 ,000 c a n s , l i k e o n a S u n d a y

a f t e r n o o n t h a t h a d come i n a n d i f y o u h a d one f l y , s u p p o s e

y o u l e t t h a t go, b u t i f y o u h a d 5 f l i e s a n d s i x g r a s s -

h o p p e r s , when d c y o u condemn i t ? T h e r e i s n o b o d y t h e r e t o

t e l l y o u w h a t t c do a n d a c t u a l l y I d o n ' t t h i n k a n y b o d y

w o u l d w a n t t o t e l l y o u . You make t h e d e c i s i o n y o u r s e l f a n d

t h e y w o u l d c l o s e t h e i r e y e s , b u t i t d i d r e p r e s e n t a n

e c o n o m i c 1 oss .

L o f s v o l d : E s p e c i a l l y , t o t h e c r e a m e r y i f t h e b a d c r e a m

w e n t i n t o t h e t a n k w i t h a l l t h e r e s t o f i t .

S c h o o n o v e r : Some o f t h e c r e a m came f r o m T e x a s i n t o

Ok lahoma. They d i d n ' t h a v e r e f r i g e r a t e d t r u c k s t o a n y

g r e a t e x t e n t a n d t h e y w o u l d t h r o w a w e t t a r p a u l i n o v e r t h e

t o p o f t h e c a n s a n d s o m e t i m e s t h e t e m p e r a t u r e , l i k e i n

W i c h i t a e v e n , I remember , a b o u t 114 i n t h e s h a d e a n d t h e

s t u f f w o u l d warm u p i n a h u r r y .

L o f s v o l d : Be b o i l i n g o u t o f t h e c a n s ?

S c h o o n o v e r : I remember o n e t i m e . . . o n c e i n a w h i l e when y o u

w e r e i n a h u r r y y o u ' d c u t t h e w i r e s t h a t h e l d t h e c o v e r on.

Once when I c u t t h e w i r e t h e t h i n g b l e w u p f r o m t h e p r e s -

s u r e i n s i d e a n d t h e r o t t e n c r e a m h i t t h e c e i l i n g a n d came

down on my s h i r t . L i t t l e t h i n g s t h a t y o u remember .

I n F a y e t t e v i l l e , A r k a n s a s , i n t h e summer t i m e t h e

c r e a m e r y opened, j u s t as i t was g e t t i n g d a y l i g h t . So i t

w o u l d b e a l i t t l e c o o l e r t o w o r k . I s a t ii my c a r w a t c h i n g

a l l t h e c r e a m c a n s t h a t w e r e l i n e d u p o n t h e p l a t f o r m w a i t -

i n g t o b e d r a g g e d i n a n d dumped and when t h e y t u r n e d t h e

l i g h t s o n t h e w h o l e p l a t f o r m j u s t moved w i t h c o c k r o a c h e s .

L o f s v o l d : Oh no.

S c h o o n o v e r : I n a b o u t 3 0 s e c o n d s t h e y w e r e a l l gone. Wher -

e v e r t h e y wen t . T h e y l i v e d o n c r e a m t h a t s p i l l e d .

L o f s v o l d : T h i n k i n g a b o u t t h a t p e r i o d , we h a v e a l a r g e

number o f p i c t u r e s t h a t w e r e a p p a r e n t l y a c o l l e c t i o n o f M r .

L a r r i c k ' s , p i c t u r e s o f FDA p e r s o n n e l , m o s t l y i n s p e c t o r s ,

and one g r o u p i s c a l l e d t h e F l y i n g Squad . D i d y o u e v e r

h e a r o f t h a t t e r m o r h a v e any i d e a w h a t t h a t m e a n t ?

0 S c h o o n o v e r : I t s t r k e s a d i s t a n t c h o r d , b u t I d o n ' t know.

L o f s v o l d : Somebody was s p e c u l a t i n g t h a t i t r e f e r r e d t o a

g r o u p o f i n s p e c t o r s who w e r e s p e c i a l l y t r a i n e d i n f r a u d

work a n d t r a v e l e d a 11 o v e r t h e c o u n t r y d o i n g t h a t k i n d o f

w o r k . I t i s n o t one t h a t y o u r e c o g n i z e ?

Uhen y o u w e r e d o i n g t h i s c r e a m work t h e n y o u d i d n

s t a y w i t h i n y o u r own s t a t i o n t e r r i t o r y , y o u t r a v e l e d a

o v e r t h e C e n t r a l D i s t r i c t .

S c h o o n o v e r : Oh, y e s . You w e r e away, f o r i n s t a n c e , y o u

s t a r t e d o u t r i g h t a f t e r t h e 4 t h o f J u l y a n d g o t home f o r

L a b o r Day. My w i f e s a i d s h e was g o i n g t o d i v o r c e me, a n d I

g e t home f o r L a b o r Day a n d I am s e n t u p t o a r o u n d T r a v e r s e

C i t y , M i c h i g a n a n d d i d n ' t g e t home u n t i l a r o u n d

T h a n k s g i v i n g .

L o f s v o l d : Up t h e r e , w h a t was i t c a n n i n g o f . . .

S c h o o n o v e r : S p r a y r e s i d u e .

L o f s v o l d : Oh, s p r a y r e s i d u e . ... S c h o o n o v e r : 0 rc :ha rds a n d s o f o r t h . I t was a n a r e a w h e r e

t h e r e h a d b e e n a p p a r e n t l y l i t t l e w o r k done. I g o t i n t o

s o r t o f a h a s s l e , i n f a c t , t h i s o n e f e l l o w l e t i t b e known

t h a t h e was g o i r ~ g t o s h o o t me t h e n e x t t i m e h e saw me a n d I

was t h r o w n o u t o f h i s o r c h a r d . I h a d f o u n d some h i g h r e s i -

due and i n o r d e r t o g e t s a m p l e s I h a d t o go down a t 1 2

o ' c l o c k a t n i g h t , a t one o f t h e f r e i g h t p l a c e s w h e r e

b e f o r e t h e c a r t h a t h e h a d l o a d e d w i t h a p p l e s was d r a g g e d

on t o t h e m a i n l i n e , m a i n f r e i g h t l i n e , and b r e a k t h e s e a l

and g e t i n t o t h e c a r and t a k e my s a m p l e s , b e c a u s e he

w o u l d n ' t l e t me do i t i n t h e o r c h a r d . T h a t was l i k e l y why

he was g o i n g t o s h o o t me.

I t was i n t e r e s t i n g l a t e r a t Man i s t e e , M i c h igan,

S a t u r d a y a f t e r n o o n I w a l k e d i n t o a f r e i g h t o f f i c e t o g e t

r e c o r d s a n d h e was s i t t i n g t h e r e w i t h some o f h i s c r o n i e s .

E v e r y t h i n g w e n t dead. I wen t a b o u t my b u s i n e s s a n d h e d i d

n o t h i n g .

L o f s v o l d : T h i s was t h e l e a d and a r s e n i c p r o b l e m ?

S c h o o n o v e r : Yes.

L o f s v o l d : P r i o r t o W o r l d War 11. D i d y ou do much o f

work when y o u w e r e a t New York o r B o s t o n ?

S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , New York . . . oh y e s . I n New Y o r k p a r t i -

c u l a r l y n w i n Monmouth C o u n t y , t h e r e a r e s t i l l a number o f

o r c h a r d s , a l s o i n New Y o r k S t a t e i n t h e H u d s o n V a l l e y , a n d

C h e r r y Va l e y , f r o m A l b a n y t o S y r a c u s e . T h r o u g h R h i n e b e c k ,

New P a l t z T i v o l i , Hudson, New Y o r k a l l t h r o u g h t h e r e t h e r e

i s s t i l l a b i g f r u i t i n d u s t r y .

I remember one t i m e a t Germantown, t h e y h a d a c o l d

p a c k i n g p l a n t , a n d I was c h e c k i n g t h e c h e r r i e s b r o u g h t i n .

You w o u l d t a k e a no. 2 c a n a n d c o o k t h e m up a n d p u t t h e m i n

a p a n w i t h a b l a c k b o t t o m and l o o k f o r t h e m a g g e t s . One # 2

s i z e c a n h a d a l m o s t as many m a g g o t s as i t d i d c h e r r i e s . I

w e n t b a c k a n d c h e c k e d a n d f o u n d t h a t a n u n d e r t a k e r h a d

b o u g h t a n a b a n d o n e d f a r m w i t h c h e r r y t r e e s on i t . He h a d

h i r e d somebody t o c h o p t h e t r e e s down a n d t h e n p i c k e d t h e

c h e r r i e s o f f a n d b r o u g h t t h e m t o t h e c o l d p a c k i n g p l a n t .

~ o f s v o l d . N e v e r h a d b e e n s p r a y e d o r a n y t h i n g ?

S c h o o n o v e r : No. T h o s e c h e r r i e s n e v e r g o t c o l d p a c k e d t h a t

y e a r .

L o f s v o l d : T h e r e w e r e c a n n e r i e s i n t h a t same a r e a t o o ,

c a n n i n g f r u i t o r was i t j u s t s h i p p e d f r e s h ?

S c h o o n o v e r : I t was m o s t l y s h i p p e d f r e s h . The c a n n e r i e s i n

New Y o r k s t a t e , a t o n e t i m e , c a n n e d s t r i n g b e a n s , c o r n ,

p e a s , e t c . , b u t a g o o d p a r t o f t h a t i n d u s t r y moved t o t h e

m i d w e s t a f t e r t h a t .

L o f s v o l d : They w e r e u p i n t h e Nohawk V a l l e y a n d i n t h a t

a r e a ?

S c h o o n o v e r : Yes. I n t h a t a r e a .

G o i n g b a c k t o t h e c a n n i n g i n d u s t r y , w o r k i n g o u t o f

Z o s t o n o n e t i m e a n d c o m i n g f r o m F r y e b u r g , M a i n e t h e y h a d a

20% c o r n i n f e s t a t i o n t h e r e a n d y o u c h e c k e d w i t h t h e C o u n t y

A g e n t s a n d o t h e r s a s y o u go a l o n g a n d t h e y h a d d i f f i c u l t y

t h e r e , o f c o u r s e . Then i n t h o s e d a y s t o o y o u c h e c k e d t h e

g a r b a g e wagons a n d s o f o r t h t o s e e i f t h e y w e r e u s i n g a n y

s a c c h a r i n e i n p l a c e o f s u g a r as a s w e e t e n e r , w h i c h h a p p e n e d

s o m e t i m e s .

L o f s v o l d : I n c o r n ? I n t h e e a r l y p a r t o f t h e p a c k .

S c h o o n o v e r : I remember one t i m e i n New J e r s e y , h e r e , down

a t F r e e h o l d , I was i n a r a i l r o a d s t a t i o n c h e c k i n g l a t e i n

t h e day , r e c o r d s f o r f r e i g h t s h i p m e n t s a n d I l o o k e d a c r o s s

t h e way t o a t o m a t o p l a n t i n o p e r a t i o n . I n e v e r knew i t

was t h e r e a n d i t was r i g h t o n t h e e d g e o f t h e d i v i d i n g l i n e

f o r t h e P h i l a d e l p h i a D i s t r i c t . I t o o k a q u i c k l o o k a t

them, and b o y t h e y w e r e g o i n g t h r o u g h t h r e e a n d f o u r d e e p

o n t h e l i n e , w i t h n o b o d y c h e c k i n g them, w i t h m o l d a n d w h a t

h a v e y o u , so t h a t f i r m w e n t o u t o f b u s i n e s s i n a h u r r y . I

r e p o r t e d i t t o P h i l a d e l p h i a D i s t r i c t .

L o f s v o l d : You w e r e m e n t i o n i n g , was i t b l u e b e r r i e s , c h e c k -

i n g t h e m f o r m a g g o t s ?

S c h o o n o v e r : Oh, y e s . We d i d a c o n s i d e r a b l e amoun t o f wo rk

e v e r y y e a r . O f c o u r s e , i n s p e c t o r s s o m e t i m e s w o u l d r i d e t h e

b o a t down f r o m M a i n e a n d t h e r e were a l o t o f b l u e b e r r i e s

p i c k e d w i l d i n f l a i n e , a n d s h i p p e d t o t h e New York m a r k e t

and t h e y w o u l d t a k e s a m p l e s a n d r u n t h e m c o m i n g down.

L o f s v o l d : E x a m i n e w h i l e t h e y w e r e i n t r a n s i t ?

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . Cook t h e m u p a n d p u t t h e m i n t o a t a l l

d e e p c o n t a i n e r o f some k i n d a n d t h e n d e c a n t t h e c o l o r o f f

and t h e n y o u w o u l d h a v e t h e s o l i d m a t e r i a l a n d p u t i t i n a

p a n w i t h a b l a c k b o t t o m a n d p i c k o u t t h e l i t t l e worms a n d

i f t h e r e w e r e o v e r 3 m i l l i m e t e r s ; s o m e t i m e s y o u w o u l d h a v e

a w h o l e mess o f l i t t l e t i n y ones bu t . . . One t h i n g t h a t I

r e c a l l , and I f e l t s o s o r r y f o r t h e i n d i v i d u a l s , a g r o u p o f

p e o p l e i n P e n n s y l v a n i a , d u r i n g t h e d e p r e s s i o n h a d a p p a r -

e n t l y p u t t h e i r r e s o u r c e s t o g e t h e r a n d p i c k e d a w h o l e t r u c k

l o a d o f w i l d b l u e b e r r i e s , i n c r a t e s , 3 2 q u a r t s i n a c r a t e ,

a n d s e n t t h e m t o t h e New Y o r k m a r k e t . W e l l , i n t h a t w o r k ,

y o u t r a m p a r o u n d a l l n i g h t l o n g e s p e c i a l l y a t t h e

U a s h i n g t o n m a r k ' e t , go o u t t o G a n s e v o o r t , s o m e t i m e s t h e

Newark m a r k e t a n d i f y o u saw l i t t l e l o o p e r s c r a w l i n g on t h e

o u t s i d e o f t h e c r a t e y o u knew t h a t t h e r e was s o m e t h i n g

c o c k e y e d w i t h t i e b l u e b e r r i e s i n t h e r e . I t o o k a s a m p l e ,

b a c k t o t h e l a b o r a t o r y a n d r a n a q u i c k t e s t a n d t h e y w e r e

t e r r i b l e . Ue h a d t o condemn t h e w h o l e l o a d .

A n o t h e r t i m e f o l l o w i n g a s e i z u r e o f b l u e b e r r i e s , I

w e n t w i t h t h e U.S. M a r s h a l i n t h e M a r k e t D i s t r i c t i n New

Y o r k a n d t h e c r a t e s d i d n ' t f e e l q u i t e r i g h t . When y o u

l i f t e d t h e m u p L o t a k e t h e i n c i n e r a t o r . I n t h o s e d a y s ,

t h e y t o o k t h e m u p o n t h e E a s t R i v e r a n d b u r n e d them. T h e r e

w e r e a d j o i n i n g c e l l a r s a n d somebody h a d l e f t t h e t o p l a y e r

a n d h a d p u t m o l d y c h e r r r i e s a n d e v e r y t h i n g e l s e i n t h e

o t h e r l a y e r s u n d e r n e a t h . T h e y g o t away w i t h s e v e r a l l a y e r s

o f b l u e b e r r i e s t o s e l l . I w e n t u p t o W i l k e s - B a r r e ,

P e n n s y l v a n i a t o make an i n v e s t i g a t i o n , b u t y o u j u s t

c o u l d n ' t make t h e f a c t s j e l l a f t e r a t h i n g l i k e t h a t

happened .

L o f s v o l d : I f a n y b o d y h a d s t o l e n t h e b l u e b e r r i e s a n d

h a d s u b s t i t u t e d o t h e r b a d f r u i t f o r them.

S c h o o n o v e r : T h a t was a n o t h e r c o n t e s t we had. E v e r y o n c e

i n a w h i l e y o u w o u l d meet some o b s t r e p e r o u s i n d i v i d u a l s

t h a t d i d n ' t w a n t t h e i r p r o d u c t s s e i z e d and t h e y w o u l d p u t

u p a f i g h t f o r i t . I r e i n e n t e r one t i m e i n P r o v i d e n c e we

s e i z e d some b a n d a g e s t h a t w e r e n o t s t e r i l e and I w e n t w i t h

t h e U.S. M a r s h a l , h e was a b i g f e l l o w t h a t w e i g h e d a b o u t

300 p o u n d s , l o u d v o i c e a n d t h e owner r e f u s e d t o show u s

w h e r e t h e g o o d s w e r e a n d s a i d h e h a d s o l d them. I was

p o s i t i v e h e h a d n ' t s o l d . The m a r s h a l s a i d . " G e t ' e m , e i t h e r

I b r i n g t h o s e i n o r b r i n g y o u i n " . W e l l , h e r a i s e d a t r a p

d o o r b e h i n d t h e c o u n t e r and w e n t down t h e c e l l a r a n d g o t

them. The same t h i n g h a p p e n e d one t i m e w i t h a l o a d o f p e a s

t h a t I h a d s a m p l e d , t h e f e l l a t r i e d t o h i d e them.

L o f s v o l d : On t h i s b l u e b e r r y work d i d y o u a l s o work o n t h e

s t u f f c o m i n g i n f r o m Canada?

S c h o o n o v e r : N o t t o a g r e a t e x t e n t , no.

L o f s v o l d : O r d i d we g e t C a n a d i a n b l u e b e r r i e s i n t h o s e

days .

S c h o o n o v e r : O c c a s i o n a l l y , t o my k n o w l e d g e , b u t m o s t o f i t

was t h e s t a t e o f M a i n e .

L o f s v o l d : I see.

I n t h o s e e a r l y d a y s , S t u , d i d F D A h a v e a f l e e t o f c a r s

f o r t h e i n s p e c t o r s ?

S c h o o n o v e r : No, y o u h a d t w o o r t h r e e c a r s , t h a t was a b o u t

a l l . On y o u r a s s i g n m e n t s y o u w e n t o u t t o . . . f o r i n s t a n c e ,

y o u t o o k t h e t r a i n t o S c r a n t o n , w h i c h y o u c o u l d d r i v e now

i n a c o u p l e o f h o u r s , b u t t h a t was a n o v e r n i g h t t r i p , y o u

t o o k a s l e e p e r and y o u h a d y o u r G u r l e y b a l a n c e p l u s y o u r

s u i t c a s e a n d y o u r g r i p w i t h 11 y o u r p a p e r s a n d s o f o r t h .

i h a t e v e r y o u h a d t o d o y o u e t h e r w a l k e d o r y o u t o o k a t a x i

o r a s t r e e t c a r , b u t y o u were l i m i t e d o n a t a x i b e c a u s e y o u

h a d t o h a v e s o nany u n i t s o f b a g g a g e o t h e r w i s e L i n t o n

w o u l d n ' t a p p r o v e i t , h e w o u l d t a k e i t o f f o f y o u r e x p e n s e

a c c o u n t . I remember o n e t i m e he s e n t a n e x p e n s e a c c o u n t

b a c k , b e c a u s e I h a d m i s j u d g e d t h e g a s o l i n e t a x b y 1 c e n t .

I t w a s n ' t r i g h t , and b a c k i t came.

L o f s v o l d : Whaf i f y o u n e e d e d e q u i p m e n t , l i k e b u t t e r

t r i e r s a n d t h i n g s l i k e t h a t , y o u h a d t o c a r r y t h o s e t o o ? .

S c h o o n o v e r : A b s o l u t e l y , y o u c h e c k e d y o u r a s s i g n m e n t s .

made o u t a c a r d f o r e a c h t o w n a n d w h a t I h a d t o t h e r e . I f

y o u w e r e o n a t r i p a n d y o u g o t a t e l e g r a m , t h e r e w e r e a l o t

o f t e l e g r a m c o m m u n i c a t i o n s i n t h o s e d a y s , a r e q u e s t f r o m

a n o t h e r d i s t r i c t t o d o s o m e t h i n g a n d y o u l a c k e d e q u i p m e n t ,

y o u w o u l d go t o t h e l o c a l h e a l t h o f f i c e a n d s e e i f y o u

c o u l d b o r r o w s o m e t h i n g t h e r e .

I remember one t i m e in. . . I was w o r k i n g o u t o f

S y r a c u s e a n d I g o t a t e l e g r a m f r o m W e s t e r n D i s t r i c t t o

c h e c k l u g s o f g r a p e s f o r s h o r t w e i g h t . It seemed s o r t o f

f a r f e t c h e d t o me b e c a u s e t h o s e t h i n g s r a n a l l o v e r t h e

map. Anyway I k e p t a c h e c k o n t h e f r e i g h t c a r . I t was

I

r e c o r d e d a s c o m i n g i n t o S y r a c u s e . The f r e i g h t a g e n t was

s u p p o s e t o l e t me know b u t b e c o m i n g s u s p i c i o u s , I p h o n e d

ahead o f t i m e and f o u n d i t h a d b e e n d i v e r t e d t o O g d e n s b u r g .

: jumped i n my c a r t h a t n i g h t a n d g o t u p t o O g d e n s b u r g ,

b e f o r e t h e c a r a r r i v e d . I l a c k e d a s c a l e t o w e i g h w i t h

b u t . . . i t was l o a n e d t o me by t h e h e a l t h o f f i c e i n

O g d e n s b u r g .

Yes, y o u d i d a l o t o f f o o t work i n t h o s e d a y s . I

remember one t i m e I was w o r k i n g i n New Haven a n d t h e r e y o u

t r a v e l e d b y b u s , e t c . a n d I h a d a n a s s i g n m e n t t o s a m p l e

f i v e p o u n d s b l o c k s o f c h e e s e , f r o m S w i f t o r A r m o u r , o n e o f

them, a n d I h a d a w h o l e b i y l o a d a n d I h a d t o g e t o n t h e

bus w i t h a l l t h a t a n d my g r i p a n d t h e G u r l e y b a l a n c e . . . b u t

t h a t was t h e way y o u o p e r a t e d a n d y o u d i d n ' t t h i n k a n y t h i n g

a b o u t i t .

L o f s v o l d : P a r t o f t h e j o b .

S c h o o n o v e r : I t w a s n ' t t o bad a r o u n d New Y o r k , b e c a u s e t h e y

h a d i n a s e n s e a b e t t e r subway s y s t e m t h e n t h a n t h e y h a v e

now. F i v e c e n t s i s a l l i t c o s t on t h e subways i n t h o s e

d a y s . I t r a n a l l o v e r t h e p l a c e . I n f a c t c o m i n g a c r o s s

t h e B r o o k l y n B r i d g e , i n t h a t a r e a , t h e y h a d t h o s e o l d

t r o l l e y c a r s w i t h t h e s i d e b o a r d . The c o n d u c t o r t h e n

w a l k e d t h e s i d e t o c o l l e c t t h e f a r e s .

L o f s v o l d : When y o u w e r e away f r o m t h e o f f i c e and c o l l e c t e d

t h e s e s a m p l e s , y o u s h i p p e d t h e m i n e v e r y d a y by R a i l w a y

E x p r e s s , o r . . . ?

S c h o o n o v e r : REA.

L o f s v o l d : a u t i f y o u w e r e w o r k i n g i n t o w n , why y o u w e n t

i n t o t h e o f f i c e a t n i g h t and d e l i v e r e d them, o r b r o u g h t

t h e m i n t o t h e o f f i c e f o r t h e l a b o r a t o r y ?

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . A l i t t l e s t o r y on McKay M c K i n n o n w h i l e

h e was s t i l l wo :pk ing a s I n s p e c t o r i n New Y o r k . He was com-

i n g b a c k f r o m t h e C o n n e c t i c u t a r e a a n d h e h a d some s a m p l e s

i n h i s c a r a n d h e was b e a t i n g t h e t r a c k down, s o t h e p o l i c e

s t o p p e d h i m f o r s p e e d i n g and h e g a v e t h e m a s t o r y t h a t he

was r u s h i n g some s a m p l e s b a c k t o t h e o f f i c e a n d h e h a d t o

g e t t h e m a n a l y z e d . So t h e p o l i c e s a i d , " F o l l o w me, 1 ' 1 1

l e a d t h e way" . M c K i n n o n s a i d he was s h a k i n g i n h i s b o o t s

f o r f e a r h e w o u l d w a n t t o come up t o t h e o f f i c e and s e e i f

h e was t e l l i n g t h e t r u t h . B u t h e l e t h i m go.

A n o t h e r i n t e r e s t i n g s t o r y o n s a m p l i n g o u t o f A l b a n y .

I was w o r k i n g w i t h a S t a t e I n s p e c t o r t h e r e , o n s p r a y r e s i -

due. T h e r e was a f a r m e r p u t t i n g s t r a i g h t l e a d a r s e n a t e

i n t o a 5 p o u n d s u g a r s a c k a n d p u t t i n g a dab o n t h e c a u l i -

f l o w e r p l a n t s a s h e w e n t a l o n g . W e l l , s o m e t i m e s t h e i n n e r

l e a v e s a r e u s e d f o r m a k i n g soup. You know, t h e r e w e r e l i t -

t l e p i e c e s o f l e a d a r s e n a t e , t h e s i z e o f t h e e n d o f y o u r

f i n g e r , t h e r a i n h a d g o t t e n down t h e r e . Boy, t o me t h a t

was r e a l l y d a n g e r o u s . So, I w e n t b a c k t o t h e S t a t e House

w i t h t h e S t a t e I n s p e c t o r a n d h e p u t i t o n t h e r a d i o f o r t h e

S t a t e Po l i c e t o s t o p a n y t r u c k f r o m t h i s f e l l o w g o i n g o u t

o f s t a t e and t u r n i t a r o u n d u n t i l we c o u l d g e t a n a n a l y s i s

a n d c h e c k t h e l o a d . So, I g o t a t e l e p h o n e c a l l Y r o m t h e

New Y o r k D i s t r i c t , "Hey , w h a t ' s g o i n g on u p t h e r e . S t a t e

P o l i c e a r e s t o p p i n g t r u c k s . " So, when I e x p l a i n e d , w e l l i t

was a1 1 r i g h t .

L o f s v o l d : T h e t a g r e e d .

S c h o o n o v e r : The s t a t e h a d t a k e n o v e r t h e d e a l a n d we w e r e

o u t o f i t .

I was a s s i g n e d o n c e on t h e s h i p m e n t s o f a p p l e s f r o m

t h e P a c i f i c N o r t h w e s t t o c h e c k t h e s p r a y r e s i d u e . T h e r e

w e r e a l a r g e number o f c a r s c o m i n g i n . You w o u l d go o v e r

i n t h e m i d d l e o f t h e n i g h t b e f o r e t h e c a r s w e r e p u t o n t o

f l o a t s t o t a k e t h e m o v e r t o N o r t h R i v e r p i e r s . McKay

M c K i n n o n h a d b e e n o u t t o a p a r t y a n d h e came i n t o h e l p me

i n t h e wee h o u r s o f t h e m o r n i n g w i t h a p l u s h c o a t a n d a

d e r b y h a t .

L o f s v o l d : A l l d r e s s e d u p ?

S c h o o n o v e r : He was c l i m b i n g i n t o c a r s , p u l l i n g o u t b o x e s ,

a n d s a m p l i n g a p p l e s . J u s t b e f o r e t h a t I h a d b e e n w a i t i n g

and t h e J e r s e y C i t y P o l i c e came a l o n g a n d w a n t e d t o know

w h a t I was d o i n g w a i t i n g t h e r e a t t h e c o r n e r i n t h e m i d d l e

o f t h e n i g h t . I e x p l a i n e d w h a t we w e r e a b o u t s o t h a t

w o r k e d o u t a l l r i g h t .

L o f s v o l d : I f t h e y ' d s e e n M c K i n n o n i n h i s C h e s t e r f i e l d

c o a t , t h e y r e a l l y w o u l d h a v e wondered .

S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , he was a b r i l l i a n t y o u n g man. When h e

p u t h i s t e e t h i n t o a n o p e r a t i o n h e c o u l d r e a l l y do i t . He

w o u l d t a k e s h o r t c u t s t o o . I remember o n e t i m e we w e n t o v e r

t o P a t t e r s o n t o c h e c k o n some, w h a t we c a l l e d a l c o h o l c a n -

d i e s , b e c a u s e i t was a g a i n s t t h e l a w t o p u t a l c o h o l i n t o

c h o c o l a t e c a n d i e s , a n d we w e n t t o t h i s o n e p l a n t a n d i t was

l o c k e d up, no e v i d e n c e o f i i f e a t a1 1. Somehow y o u h a d t h e

f e e l i n g t h a t t h e y m i g h t h a v e s e e n u s c o m i n g . So, t h e r e was

a s i d e s t a i r w a y t h a t w e n t up t o t h e r o o f , we g o t u p a n d

t h e r e was a b o x o n t o p o f an o p e n i n g a n d we l i f t e d i t o f f

a n d t h e r e was a s t a i r w a y t h e r e . Mac l o o k e d a t me. He

s a i d , " W e l l , t h e r e i s no t i m e l i k e t h e p r e s e n t " . We w e n t

down t o t h e f a c t o r y a n d i t was a c c o r d i n g t o t h e t e r m i n o l o g y

" h o t " , t h e y h a d j u s t l e f t , t h e y h a d s e e n u s c o m i n g a n d away

t h e y went . W e l l , we c o u l d h a v e gone t o j a i l , y o u know,

e s p e c i a l l y t o d a y f o r b r e a k i n g a n d e n t e r i n g .

L o f s v o l d : B r e a k i n g a n d e n t e r i n g .

S c h o o n o v e r : B u t , we f o u n d w h a t we w a n t e d t o f i n d a n d t h e y

w e r e m a k i n g s h i p m e n t s s o m e p l a c e a n d t h a t was i t . I f t h e

U.S. A t t o r n e y h a d e v e r . . . i f t h e r e h a d b e e n a t r i a l , a s t o

how we h a d g o t t h e e v i d e n c e t h e c a s e w o u l d h a v e b e e n t h r o w n

o u t . You know, i n t h o s e d a y s i t t o o k . . . L i k e t h e o l d

s t o r y a b o u t c h e c k i n g on a c e r t a i n f a c t o r y i n C o n n e c t i c u t ,

t h e y h a d r e n t e d a r o w b o a t a n d gone down t o t h e l a k e a l o n g

s i d e t h e factor,^, t r y i n g t o w a t c h o p e r a t i o n s , e t c . , a n d

some guy t ~ l d t h e m t h e r e i s no f i s h i n t h a t l a k e w h a t a r e

y o u d o i n g o u t t h e r e .

L o f s v o l d : T h e y u s e d t o do a l l k i n d s o f t h i n g s i n o r d e r t o

t r y a n d f i n d o u t w h a t was h a p p e n i n g .

S c h o o n o v e r : Oh, s u r e . P a r t i c u l a r l y i n t h o s e d a y s , i f y o u

a c t e d as i f y o u h a d t h e a u t h o r i t y , i t w a s n ' t q u e s t i o n e d .

Once i n a g r e a t w h i l e , I ' m t r y i n g t o t h i n k o f t h e name o f

t h i s i n d i v i d u a l a g a i n a n d I c a n ' t . He made an i n s p e c t i o n

i n New Y o r k , h e came b a c k , h e h a d t a k e n p i c t u r e s a n d t h e

f i r m p h o n e d a n d demanded t h a t h e b r i n g t h e p i c t u r e s back .

So, W h a r t o n d i r e c t e d h i m t o t a k e h i s f i l m a n d e v e r y t h i n g

b a c k a n d g i v e i t t o t h e f i r m . O f c o u r s e , we h a d no d i r e c -

t i v e on t h i s . I n f a c t , e v e n t o d a y , I i m a g i n e t h a t t h e y

i n s i s t o n t h a t y o u c a n ' t t a k e p i c t u r e s , a n d t h e A c t d o e s n ' t

s p e l l i t o u t .

L o f s v o l d : T h a t i s r i g h t , I t h i n k t h e i n s t r u c t i o n s s t i l l

a r e t h a t i f t h e y f o r b i d y o u t o t a k e p i c t u r e s , y o u t r y t o

a r g u e t h e m i n t o d o i n g i t , b u t i f t h a t d o e s n ' t wo rk y o u p u t

t h e camera away.

S c h o o n o v e r : B u t t h e r e a r e t i m e s . .. Y e a r s ago, t o o , I

remember t h e r e was a f a c t o r y i n downtown New York t h a t made

v i n e j e l l i e s , a n d t h e y were s o l d t o a f a n c y f i r m a r o u n d t h e

m a i n s t a t i o n i n New Y o r k , t h e m i l l i o n a i r e s e c t i o n , t h e

f a n c y r e s t a u r a n t s , e t c . , a n d s o t h e m i n u t e y o u go i n t o some

o f t h e s e p l a c e s , t h i s i s a f t e r r e h a d a u t h o r i t y o n t h e ' 3 3

A c t , f i l t h p r o b l e m s . I t h a s a c h a r a c t e r i s t i c o d o r when

t h e r e a r e r a t s i n t h e p l a n t . I l o o k e d o v e r a n d u n d e r t h e

c o u n t e r s , and f o u n d h e a v y e v i d e n c e o f r a t s . I d e c i d e d t o

go b a c k t h e n e x t m o r n i n g a n d t h e y h a d a l l t h e s e w i n e s

c o o l i n g o v e r n i g h t , i n r o u n d p l a s t i c c u p s a n d t h e y w o u l d

d i p t h e m i n t o warm w a t e r and t h e n p u t t h e m i n t o a c e l l o -

p h a n e b a g w i t h s u g a r . W e l l , y ~ uc o u l d s e e t h e paw p r i n t s

w h e r e t h e r a t s h a d b e e n w a l k i n g t h r o u g h t h e s e c u p s .

S e v e r a l o f t h e m h a d r a t p e l l e t s l y i n g r i g h t o n t o p o f t hem.

The t r i c k i s t o go i n f i r s t b e f o r e t h e e v i d e n c e c a n b e

d i s t u r b e d . So I g o t t h a t e v i d e n c e , b u t a g a i n I h a d t a k e n

p i c t u r e s a n d I w a s n ' t c h a l l e n g e d on t h a t . So t h a t was a n

o p e n and s h u t c a s e .

A n o t h e r o p e n a n d s h u t c a s e , I h a d a l e t t e r o n t h a t

s o r t o f a c o m m e n d a t i o n o f some k i n d . I h a d a n a s s i g n m e n t

t o c h e c k o n a c o m p l a i n t o n t h e p i t s i n c h e r r i e s a t a w h o l e -

s a l e g r o c e r i n D a y t o n , Oh io . The c a n s w e r e l a b e l e d p i t t e d

c h e r r i e s a n d i n t h o s e d a y s , t o o , y o u c o u l d p u l l a1 1 s o r t o f

s h e n a n i g a n s . So, I w e n t a r o u n d t o t h e b a c k a n d wa l k e d i n

a s i f I was a s a l e s m a n a n d t a l k e d w i t h some o f t h e f l u n k y

e m p l o y e e s t h e r e a n d s t r u c k up a l i t t l e f r i e n d y c o n v e r s a -

t i o n a n d f o u n d o u t t h a t t h e y h a d b e e n i n t h a t weekend, t h e

b o s s h a d t a k e n a c o u p l e o f t h e m , a n d s t r i p p e d t h e s u b -

s t a n d a r d l a b e l s a n d p u t f a n c y l a b e l s b a c k aga n.

L o f s v o l d : They t o o k t h e s u b s t a n d a r d l e g e n d l a b e l s o f f .

S c h o o n o v e r : U h a t h a p p e n e d t h e c h e r r i e s h a d a l r e a d y b e e n

s e i z e d o n c e and s e n t b a c k t o t h e f a c t o r y i n a u f f a l o w h e r e

t h e y l a b e l e d t h e m w i t h t h e p r o p e r l a b e l s a n d t h e n g o t t h e m

r e l e a s e d a f t e r s e i z u r e a n d s e n t t h e m down t h e r e .

L o f s v o l d : T h e n t h e y p u t t h e o r i g i n a l l a b e l b a c k o n ?

S c h o o n o v e r : So, w i t h t h a t i n f o r m a t i o n I w e n t i n t o t h e

o f f i c e . I a p p r o a c h e d t h e m y o u d o n ' t ask t h e m , y o u t e l l

t hem, i f y o u w a n t t h e i n f o r m a t i o n . I s a i d , "You r e l a b e l l e d

t h e s e c a n s o v e r t h e weekend, a n d y o u h a v e y o u r i n v o i c e f o r

t h e s h i p m e n t , e t c . He o r d e r e d l a b e l s f r o m C h i c a g o . He

s i g n e d an a f f i d a v i t c o v e r i n g t h e f u l l t r a n s a c t i o n w i t h

f a c t u a l r e c o r d s .

L o f s v o l d : He c o n f e s s e d ?

S c h o o n o v e r : So, h e was p r o s e c u t e d . A n o t h e r t i m e , a t an

i n s e c t i c i d e f a c t o r y i n C o n n e c t i c u t , I h a d a v e r y n i c e c o n -

v e r s a t i o n w i t h t h e o w n e r o f t h e f a c t o r y i n t h e o f f i c e when

I w e n t i n . He s a i d t o me v e r y p l e a s a n t l y , "Now, I n s p e c t o r ,

y o u s e e t h a t d o o r " . " Y e s " . " W e l l , y o u a r e n o t g o i n g

t h r o u g h i t " a n d t h a t was t h a t . I d i d n ' t go t h r o u g h i t .

A n o t h e r p l a n t i n J e r s e y , n o t t o f a r f r o m P a t e r s o n , I

w e n t i n t o make a n i n s p e c t i o n and i t was a b r e a d p l a n t . I

was a s k e d t o w a i t and come b a c k a g a i n l a t e r i n t h e d a y a n d

I s a i d , " U e l l I h a v e a u t h o r i t y , I h a v e w r i t t e n y o u a n o t i c e

and I am h e r e t o make an i n s p e c t i o n . T h e r e i s n o t h i n g i n

t h e A c t t h a t s a y s I h a v e t o make a r r a n g e m e n t s w i t h y o u t o

i n s p e c t y o u r f a c t o r y a t a l a t e r t i m e . W e l l , h e k e p t me

w a i t i n g and h e s a i d s o m e t h i n g a b o u t h i s a t t o r n e y . I s a i d ,

" F i n e , c a l l y o u r a t t o r n e y , 1 ' 1 1 t a l k t o h i m " , a n d i t h a p -

p e n e d t o b e a n a t t o r n e y t h a t h a d f o r m e r l y b e e n i n t h e

G e n e r a l C o u n s e l ' s o f f i c e i n W a s h i n g t o n , a n d h e d i d p h o n e

h i m a n d I d i d t a l k t o h im. I s a i d , " W e l l , y o u t e l l me,

y o u ' r e r e f u s i n g t o p e r m i t me t o make a n i n s p e c t i o n now a n d

I'll l e a v e " . W e l l , h e s a i d " I d o n ' t w a n t t h a t o n t h e

r e c o r d , y o u know." I s a i d , " W e l l , i t i s e i t h e r g o i n g t o b e

one t h i n g o r t h e o t h e r , e i t h e r I am g o i n g t o make an

i n s p e c t i o n o r I d o n ' t . " O K . I t e n d e d u p t h e n d u r i n g t h e

t i m e I was d o i n g t h i s h e h a d somebody s q u i r t i n g a h o s e o n

t h e c e i l i n g , o n t h e f l o o r t h e y h a d e v e r y t h i n g d r o w n e d i n

t h a t b a k e r y , t h e y h a d c l e a n e d i t up. B u t i f t h e e v i d e n c e

i s t h e r e ... L o f s v o l d : Yes, i f i t i s b a d e n o u g h t o d o a n y t h i n g a b o u t ,

t h e y a r e n o t g o i n g t o b e a b l e t o c l e a n i t o u t i n 1 5 - 2 0

m i n u t e s , o r e v e n an h o u r .

S c h o o n o v e r : A n o t h e r t i m e , t h e r e was a c h e e s e c a k e p l a n t i n

t h e b a c k e n d o f Newark a n d t h e b r o w n c r u m b s t h a t t h e y p u t

o n t h e t o p o f c h e e s e c a k e s , a f t e r t h e y make i t , t h a t r o o m

was o v e r r u n ~itl.1m i c e . So, i t was l a t e i n t h e d a y when I

h i t t h e r e , I hacl b e e n t o o t h e r p l a c e s , s o I s a i d I w o u l d

come b a c k f i r s t t h i n g i n t h e m o r n i n g . I d i d go b a c k f i r s t

t h i n g i n t h e m o r n i n g a n d he h a d a c r e w h i r e d t o go i n a t

n i g h t t i m e , y o u n e v e r saw s u c h . . . i t l o o k e d l i k e h e a v e n

i t s e l f .

L o f s v o l d : C l e a n e d a l l n i g h t ?

S c h o o n o v e r : Q u i c k d r y i n g p a i n t , t h e f l o o r s w e r e c l e a n , a l l

t h e q u e s t i o n a b l e c o n t a i n e r s w e r e t h r o w n o u t . I s a i d t o my-

s e l f , " T h e y d e s t r o y e d my e v i d e n c e " . I n one way i t i s g o o d

t o e f f e c t a c o r r e c t i o n l i k e t h a t .

L o f s v o l d : Yes, i t a c c o m p l i s h e d w h a t y o u s t a r t e d o u t t o do.

D i d y o u g e t i n v o l v e d i n t h e E l i x i r S u l f a n i l a m i d e

r e c a l l ?

S c h o o n o v e r :

was done, a

g o i n g on.

O n l y i n t h e s a m p l i n g e n d o f

nd I w a s n ' t d i r e c t l y i n v o l v e d .

i t .

i

A

knew w h a t

l o t o f t h a t

was

L o f s v o l d :

S c h o o n o v e r :

Where w e r e y o u a t

I n C l e v e l a n d .

t h a t t i m e ?

L o f s v o l d : Were t h e r e a n y s h i p m e n t s up t h i s way, o r was i t

m o s t l y down S o u t h ?

S c h o o n o v e r : T h e r e w e r e some s h i p m e n t s a r o u n d h e r e , y e s .

B u t , c o l l e c t i o n o f s a m p l e s , e t c . , e s s e n t i a l l y .

A l i t t l e s t o r y , a n o t h e r t i m e , a b a k e r y i n Bayonne ,

i n s p e c t i n g t h a t . . . I w e n t t h e r e o n a c o m p l a i n t o f somebody

b e i n g made s i c k on t h e c a n n o l i s . So, I l o o k e d a r o u n d t h e

b a k e r y and saw s e v e r a l bags o f s u g a r u n d e r t h e c o u n t e r .

T h e y v o u l d t a k e some s u g a r a n d p u t i t i n t o a b i n and w o u l d

u s e t h a t t o m i x w i t h t h e c a n n o l i s . J e l l , t h e b a g s , c a t s

h a d b e e n s l e e p i n g on t h e t h i n g s a n d y o u c o u l d s e e o t h e r

i n s e c t a c t i v i t y , s o i c u t t h e b a g a n d l i f t e d i t u p a n d y o u

c o u l d s e e t h i s d i r t a l l t h r o u g h t h e b a g and i n t o t h e s u g a r .

He c l a i m e d t h a t i t was t h e c h e e s e h e g o t f r o m a n o t h e r p l a c e

i n B r o o k l y n t h a t h a d c a u s e d t h e d i f f i c u l t y , t h e s i c k n e s s

and s o f o r t h , a n d I s a i d , " S i r , h e r e i s y o u r e v i d e n c e r i g h t

h e r e , y o u j u s t g o t p l a i n d i r t i n t o y o u r m i x . " B o y , he w e n t

up i n t h e a i r a n d g r a b b e d a b i g b u t c h e r k n i f e a n d came

a f t e r me. H i s w i f e l e t o u t a s c r e a m a n d s o I d i d n ' t w a s t e

a n y t i m e I w a l k e d o u t t h e f r o n t d o o r . I w a s n ' t g o i n g t o

a r g u e w i t h a man i n a c a s e l i k e t h a t , b e c a u s e h e j u s t w e n t

n u t s . I g o t t h e l o c a l h e a l t h i n s p e c t o r a n d t h e p o l i c e a n d

w e n t b a c k t o f i n i s h t h e i n s p e c t i o n . No u s e b e i n g a d e a d

h e r o .

L o f s v o l d : No. H e a v e n s no.

S c h o o n o v e r : The f i e l d t r i p s w o u l d l a s t f r o m a week t o a

m o n t h o r more. A s s i g n m e n t s w e r e c o l l e c t e d , a s s e n t t o y o u

b y t h e C h i e f I n s p e c t o r and y o u h a d a b a s k e t o n y o u r d e s k

a n d y o u m a r k e d i t t r a v e l a s s i g n m e n t s . Day a f t e r d a y y o u ' d

t h r o w t h e a s s i g n m e n t s i n t h e r e u n t i l t h e y b u i l t u p s u f f i -

c i e n t l y t o make a t r i p w o r t h w h i l e , e n o u g h w o r k i n t h a t

a r e a . Then I w o u l d make o u t a c a r d w i t h t h e name o f t h e

t o w n , a n d w h a t I h a d t o do i n t h a t t o w n , a n d t h e n l e a v e a

l i s t o f t h a t w o r k w i t h t h e C h i e f I n s p e c t o r when I l e f t .

You w o u l d h a v e y o u r a s s i g n m e n t s b u n d l e d a n d y o u g o i n t h a t

t o w n and w o r k o n y o u r a s s i g n m e n t t h e r e . I n b e t w e e n ,

u s u a l l y by t e l e g r a m , g i v i n g y o u new a s s i g n m e n t s o r y o u

3,vould s t o p a t t h e p o s t o f f i c e i n t h a t t o w n a n d t h e r e w o u l d

b e m a i l t h e r e w i t h a d d i t i o n a l a s s i g n m e n t s .

I t was v e r y i n t e r e s t i n g t o w o r k d u r i n g t h e d e p r e s s i o n .

Remember we h a d t o t a k e a m o n t h o f f w i t h o u t p a y , r a t h e r

t h a n t a k e a l o w e r s a l a r y . W e l l , we w e r e a l l o w e d . . . w e g o t

down t o $4 .00 a day p e r d iem, i t was s o r t o f a j o b t o

o p e r a t e on 4 b u c k s a d a y , b u t w h a t I d i d was s t o p a t t h e

P o u g h k e e p s i e Y M C A a n d g e t a m e m b e r s h i p c a r d f o r $3.00.

T h a t c a r d e n t i t l e d y o u t o s t a y i n a n y YMCA f o r a $1 .00 a

n i g h t . So I s l e p t i n p l e n t y o f YMCA's f o r a $1.00, some-

t i m e s i t was an i r o n b e d i n t h e gymnas ium b u t I g o t b y .

D u r i n g t h e d e p r e s s i o n t o o , a t t h e H o t e l M i z p a h i n ,

S y r a c u s e , y o u g o t a f u l l c o u r s e Sunday d i n n e r f o r 7 5 6 .

L o f s v o l d : You g o t t o know a l l o f t h e p l a c e s w h e r e y o u

c o u l d do t h a t .

S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , y o u h a d t o .

L o f s v o l d : When y o u h a d t o t a k e t h a t m o n t h ' s f u r l o u g h was

i t a s t r a i g h t m o n t h o r was i t some d a y s f o r e a c h mon th .

S c h o o n o v e r : Some d a y s f o r e a c h mon th . U s u a l l y y o u c o u l d

t a c k i t o n t o y o u r v a c a t i o n , w h a t e v e r i t was, a n d t h e y k e p t

t r a c k o f i t .

L o f s v o l d : You w e r e t r a v e l i n g a s y o u s a i d e i t h e r b y c a r o r

b y common c a r r i e r o n t h e s e t r i p s ?

S c h o o n o v e r : i * l o s t l y . L a t e r t h o u g h a f t e r ' 3 3 a n d e t c . o f

c o u r s e , y o u h a d c a r s t o t r a v z l i n .

L o f s v o l d : Wherl t h e y s e n t y o u t h e s e a s s i g n m e n t s b y t e l e -

gram, t h e y came f r o m y o u r S t a t i o n h e a d q u a r t e r s a n d y o u h a d

t o k e e p t h e m i n f o r m e d a b o u t w h e r e y o u w e r e g o i n g t o b e s o

t h e y c o u l d k e e p s e n d i n g y o u t h i n g s ?

S c h o o n o v e r : Yes. You k e p t t h e m i n f o r m e d s o t h a t t h e y

c o u l d k e e p i n t o u c h w i t h y o u . Th i s one i n s p e c t o r , I c a n ' t

remember h i s name, h e i n v a r i a b l e i n c u r r e d t h e w a t h o f t h e

D i s t r i c t , h e s e n t a t e l e g r a p h s a y i n g , " l e a v i n g " , e t c . ,

l e a v i n g . . . L o f s v o l d : Was t h a t E d d i e P a l m e r ?

S c h o o n o v e r : T h a t i s r i g h t , E d d i e P a l m e r .

L o f s v o l d : Yes, I h e a r d t h o s e s t o r i e s .

S c h o o n o v e r : A t e l e g r a m l i k e t h a t was w o r t h l e s s .

L o f s v o l d : Yes, h e d i d n ' t wan t t o b e f o u n d . You m e n t i o n e d

t h a t e a r l y , i n y o u r f i r s t y e a r o r s o t h a t y o u w e r e h e r e y o u

d i d some w o r k o n some i m p o r t s a l s o .

S c h o o o n o v e r : Yes.

L o f s v o l d : A n y t h i n g p a r t i c u l a r t h e r e , a s t o t h e p r o d u c t s

t h a t y o u w o r k e d o n ?

S c h o o n o v e r : No t p a r t i c u l a r l y , as I r e c a l l . T h e r e was c o n -

s i d e r a b l e w o r k s o m e t i m e s on I t a l i a n t o m a t o p a s t e t h a t came

i n . Tomatoes a r e n o t o r i o u s l y i t e m s t h a t go b a d , h y d r o g e n

s w e l l s a n d s o f o r t h .

I remember one t i m e t h e y h a d a s h i p m e n t o f c a r l o a d s

a n d c a r l o a d s t h e Army p u r c h a s e d , f r o m I t a l y , t h a t w e n t down

t o B e l l e Meade, New J e r s e y , w h i c h , w a s t h e d e p o t down t h e r e ,

d i s t r i b u t i o n f o r t h e Army and we w e n t down a n d c h e c k e d a n d

s a m p l e d , c h e c k e d a n d s a m p l e d a n d t h e s t u f f k e p t g o i n g b a d

a l l t h e t i n e , t h e l o n g e r i t s t a y e d t h e r e t h e w o r s t i t w o u l d

g e t . F i n a l l y , I g u e s s t h e y h a d t o d e s t r o y t h e w h o l e

s h i p m e n t .

L o f s v o l d : S t u a r t , as I remember t h e r e was a l o t o f w o r k

done o n e g g s a r o u n d New York , t o o , b e c a u s e t h i s was s u c h a

m a r k e t , s t u f f was s h i p p e d i n h e r e f r o m a l l o v e r . D i d y o u

g e t i n v o l v e d i n t h a t ?

S c h o o n o v e r : Yes. T h e r e w e r e q u i t e a f e w w a r e h o u s e s i n

J e r s e y C i t y , New Y o r k a n d I d r i l l e d a g r e a t many c a n s o f

f r o z e n e g g s t o c h e c k f o r d e c o m p o s i t i o n , y o u r p i n e a p p l e

o d o r , e t c . I n t h o s e d a y s , t o o , t h e r e w a s n ' t t h e f o r m a l

t r a i n i n g o n t h a t k i n d o f w o r k t h a t e x i s t e d l a t e r . L a t e r

y o u h a d t o go t o E g g S c h o o l , e t c . Then y o u l e a r n e d b y

a c t u a l l y w o r k i n g i n t h e f i e l d , u s u a l l y y o u w e n t o u t w i t h

a n o t h e r i n s p e c t o r t h a t was t r a i n e d . However , t h e r e was a

c o i n f i r m a t i o n t e s t on t h e b a s i s o f t h e s a m p l e t h a t y o u t o o k

b a c k t o t h e l a b o r a t o r y , f o r d e c o m p o s i t i o n , s o t h a t c o v e r e d

t h a t end o f i t . T h a t work was c o n s t a n t , i t j u s t w e n t on

and on.

On t h e s h e 1 1 e g g w o r k , I d o n ' t know t h a t t h e D i s t r i c t

d i d t o o much w i t h t h a t . T h e r e was a p e r i o d a f t e r t h e

s e c o n d W o r l d War when e g g s , s t o r e d , I u n d e r s t a n d s t o r e d i n

c a v e s i n M i s s o u r i . C a r l o a d s w e r e b r o u g h t i n t o New Y o r k t o

t h e e g g b r e a k e r s a n d t h e y w o u l d t r y t o g e t b y w i t h e g g s

t h a t were m a r g i n a 1. Ny j o b was t o go o u t a n d l e a r n how t o

c a n d l e e g g s . I h a d a l i t t l e b i t o f t h a t i n c o l l e g e i n t h e

c o u r s e s I t o o k i n p o u l t r y work , e t c . , b u t a. 0 . W r i g h t w e n t

o u t w i t h me a n d we o r d e r e d s o many c a s e s down i n t h e w a r e -

h o u s e a n d f l a s h c a n d l e d , b r o k e them, a n d n o t e d t h e c o n -

t e n t s . I n v a r i a b l y , w e l l y o u c a n t e l l f r o m f l a s h c a n d l i n g

w h a t t h e i n s i d e o f t h e e g g l o o k s l i k e . When t h e e g g g e t s

o l d i t j u s t s o r t o f f l o a t s a r o u n d , y o u g i v e i t a q u i c k

t w i s t a n d y o u a l w a y s g e t a m i x e d r o t o u t o f i t .

L o f s v o l d : The y o l k b r e a k s down a n d s p r e a d s o u t t h r o u g h t h e

w h i t e .

S c h o o n o v e r : Yes. It i s s t r a n g e , d e p e n d i n g u p o n t h e t y p e

o f b a c t e r i a , some m i x e d r o t s d o n ' t s m e l l . You c a n c a l l

t h e m a r o t t e n egg, b u t y o u c o u l d a c t u a l l y u s e t h e m i f y o u

w a n t e d t o . We l e a r n e d how t o c a n d l e e g g s b y t h a t m e t h o d

and o n t h a t b a s l s we h a d q u i t e a f e w s e i z u r e s . When a c a r

l o a d o f e g g s was s e i z e d i t was t a k e n down u n d e r b o n d a n d

r e c a n d l e d . T h e y h a d p r o f e s s i o n a l c a n d l e r s . I ' d b e t h e r e

t o s u p e r v i s e t h e o p e r a t i o n , a n d I w a r n e d t h e p r o f e s s i o n a l

c a n d l e r s t o t a k e o u t t h o s e weak eggs b e c a u s e I am n o t g o i n g

t o p a s s them, I know w h a t t h e y a r e g o i n g t o l o o k l i k e a f t e r

y o u t w i s t them. T h e y w o u l d n ' t d o i t a n d I remember t h i s

one t i ~ n e t h e y h a d t o r e c a n d l e , a g a i n , t h e w h o l e c a r . T h a t

i s a j o b t o r e c a n d l e a w h o l e c a r l o a d o f e g g s , y o u know.

L o f s v o l d : I t c o s t t h e m a l o t o f [money t o h a v e p e o p l e s i t

t h e r e a n d c a n d l e a w h o l e c a r l o a d t w i c e .

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t .

L o f s v o l d : I know a t v a r i o u s t i m e s t h e r e w e r e p r o b l e m s w i t h

p e o p l e b u y i n g u p t h e i n c u b a t o r r e j e c t s , t h e eggs t h a t

d i d n ' t h a t c h .

S c h o o n o v e r : " I n k i e s " . Yes.

L o f s v o l d : And p u t t i n g t h e m i n t o e d i b l e e g g s .

S c h o o n o v e r : Were y o u h e r e t h a t one t i m e when t h e y t r a i l e d

" i n k i e s " f r o m M a i n e , down h e r e , t h e y u s e d a n t h r a c e n e c r a y o n

t o mark t h e l o t , w a s n ' t i t ? T h e y w r o t e on t h e c a s e s and on

some o f t h e eggs. The m a r k s were i n v i s i b l e b u t showed u p

i n u l t r a - v i o l e t l i g h t a n d on some o f t h e eggs. X i t h t h e

h e l p o f t h e s t a t e p o l i c e t h e y f o l l o w e d t h e t r u c k e r . They

h a d b e e n t a k i n g t h e m t o t h e dump, p r e v i o u s l y f r o m t h e h a t -

c h e r y , when t h e y w o u l d f i n d t h e m bad. One o p e r a t o r f r o m

Newark , h a d b e e n p r o s e c u t e d b e f o r e . l i e o p e r a t e d t r u c k s

r o u g h l y f r o m A t l a n t a , c l e a r n o r t h t o t h e S t a t e o f M a i n e .

He s a i d , "I'llg i v e y o u $2.00 p e r c a s e i f y o u p u t t h e m i n t o

c a s e s l i k e n o r m a l eggs . " " I n k i e " r e j e c t s , OK. So t h i s

l o a d was f o l l o w e d down a n d i t l a n d e d i n Newark a n d we w e r e

a l e r t e d a n d s a t u p a l l n i g h t k e e p i n g w a t c h o n t h i s t r u c k t o

s e e w h e r e i t was g o i n g , e t c . I t h i n k I w e n t , l i k e 2 d a y s ,

w i t h o u t s l e e p i n g , b e c a u s e y o u a l o n e knew w h a t t h e t r u c k

l o o k e d l i k e .

L o f s v o l d : T h a t ' s r i g h t .

S c h o o n o v e r : Tommy S c i a c c a wa s i n o n t h a t o n e d e a l . We

f o l l o w e d i t t o . .. . w h a t was t h e name o f t h a t t o w n ? T h e C h i e f

o f P o l i c e m u s t h a v e b e e n i n wi t h t h i s d e a l , somehow o r

a n o t h e r , b e c a u s e I h a d p h o n e d t h e s t a t e a n d t h e y g o t a n

I n s p e c t o r u p r i g h t away t o embargo t h e t r u c k l o a d . The

p o l i c e c h i e f came t h e r e i n a b i g i m p o r t a n t way, h a d a b i g

C a d i l l a c , b u t when h e l e f t h e s p u n t h e w h e e l s a n d t h r e w

d i r t a n d e v e r y t h i n g a l l o v e r e v e r y o n e who was s t a n d i n g

t h e r e o n p u r p o s e y o u know. Anyway, t h e e g g d e a l e r ' s name

was Cohen, I t h i n k . We g o t h i m t o t r i a l i n Newark . T h a t

was o n e t h i n g t h a t s u r p r i s e d me i n t h e d e v e l o p m e n t o f t h a t

case . I h a d g o n e o u t t o R u t g e r s a n d w a n t e d t o g e t someone

f r o m t h e r e t o t e s t i f y a b o u t t h e u n d e s i r a b l e q u a l i t y o f

" i n k i e " r e j e c t s . The h e a d o f t h e d e p a r t m e n t t h e r e w o u l d n ' t

a g r e e t h a t " i n k i e " r e j e c t s w e r e n o t e d i b l e . He s a i d , "Some

o f t h e m d o n ' t s m e l l , d o n ' t h a v e a n o d o r a n d t h e y c a n b e

u s e d . " W e l l , o u r s t a n d a r d was t h a t i f t h e y o l k , t h e y e l l o w

a n d w h i t e m i x e d t o g e t h e r i t i s a m i x e d r o t , i f i t d e t e r i o r -

a t e s t h a t f a r . H i s r i g h t h a n d man i n t h e d e p a r t m e n t d i s -

a g r e e d w i t h h i m a n d he s p o k e t o me a s i d e . F o r t u n a t e l y , h e

i s t h e o n e t h a t we g o t t o t e s t i f y i n t h e c a s e .

L o f s v o l d : H a r r y Cohen, w a s n ' t i t ?

S c h o o n o v e r : Y o u ' r e r i g h t .

L o f s v o l d : Wasn ' t t h a t t r u c k o v e r a t C a r l s t a d t , New J e r s e y

a t t h e g a r a g e t h e r e . I remember t h a t happened w h i l e I was

h e r e i n New York. I t h i n k Sammy Columar ia f rom Bos ton

f o l l o w e d t h e t r u c k a l l t h e way down h e r e .

Schoonove r : We a l m o s t l o s t i t i n t h e back a l l e y s of

Newark. S i t t i n g t h e r e t h e p o l i c e came a l o n g and found o u t

who we were and went and g o t a p i z z a and b r o u g h t i t back t o

t h e c a r i n t h e midd le of t h e n i g h t .

T h e r e was a n o t h e r b i t i n Greenwich V i l l a g e where we

s e t u p a c o u p l e of n i g h t s l o o k i n g . Remember t h a t f e l l a

f rom New Hampshire came down. Remember t h a t box w i t h t h e

c o l o r e d l i g h t s i n i t .

L o f s v o l d : O h , t h e Dinshah G h a d i a l i c a s e .

Schoonove r : The f e l l a f rom New York who was a d o c t o r s h o t

and k i l l e d h i m s e l f a f t e r w a r d s , do you remember t h a t ?

L o f s v o l d : O h , y e s .

Schoonover : T h i s i s no t d i r e c t l y r e l a t e d t o t h a t , b u t s i t -

t i n g t h e r e a t n i g h t t i m e e v e r y t h i n g would be q u i e t , s o -

c a l l e d p e a c e f u l , b u t t h e bums would be s l e e p i n g i n t h e

doorways u p and d o w n and t h e n i t would get; c o o l and you

would s e e t h e t h i n g s come a l i v e . They would b u i l d a l i t t l e

b o n f i r e i n t h e g u t t e r , t o warm t h e m s e l v e s and t h e n go back

t o t h e doorways a g a i n .

While i n P r o v i d e n c e , Rhode I s l a n d , i n c a n v a s s i n g f o r

p r o d u c t s t h a t were mi sb randed , I found a b i g s t a c k of c a s e s

o f b o t t l e s o f i l u n y o n ' s Remedy, w h i c h came f r o m t h e Munyon

Remedy Co. i n S c r a n t o n , P e n n s y l v a n i a . They w e r e 1 a b e l l e d

w i t h e v e r y w i l d c l a i m y o u c o u l d t h i n k o f , t u b e r c u l o s i s a n d

e v e r y t h i n g e l s e . T h e y w e r e f i n a l l y s e i z e d , n o c o n t e s t , a n d

d e s t r o y e d . T h a t t y p e o f i t e m w o u l d h a v e made a wonde f u l

e x h i b i t a t t h e p r e s e n t t i m e .

A n o t h e r t h i n g t h a t I o n e t i m e w o r k e d o n i n . . . o u t 0 f

Newark , a n d t h e r e was a t r i a l on i t . D r . C a r p e n t i e r n t h e

P a s s a i c a r e a , a s t h e s t o r y goes, he h a d some k i n d o f

f a t t y p r e p a r a t i o n t h a t was g o o d f o r t u b e r c u l o s i s a n d t h e y

s a i d t h a t d o g s w e r e d i s a p p e a r i n g f r o n c e r t a i n a r e a s , whe-

t h e r h e was m a k i n g i t f r o m d o g f a t o r w h a t I d o n ' t know, I

h a d t o make an i n v e s t i g a t i o n . One o f t h e l e a d s y o u c o u l d

g e t was w h e r e h e h a d g o t t e n p e o p l e t o t a k e t h e i r f a m i l y

members t h a t w e r e u n d e r t u b e r c u l a r t r e a t m e n t o u t o f B e r g e n

P i n e s , a n d t h e n G l e n j a r d n e r was t h e name o f a n o t h e r

t u b e r c u l a r h o s p i t a l o u t i n w e s t e r n J e r s e y and we w e n t t h e r e

a n d D r . Dobbs w e n t w i t h u s o n e t i m e t o make a c h e c k , b u t t o

me t h a t was a h o r r i b l e m i s c a r r i a g e o f w h a t e v e r . . . h e s o l d i t

f o r $7.00 a j a r . You w o u l d r u b i t o n y o u a n d i t was s u p -

p o s e t o h e l p y o u w i t h y o u r t u b e r c u l a r c o n d i t i o n . He was

t r i e d i n Newark , I d o n ' t know w h a t t h e r e s u l t s o f t h e c a s e

were .

C o f s v o l d : A b o u t w h a t y e a r w o u l d t h a t h a v e b e e n ?

S c h o o n o v e r : The t u b e r c u l o s i s c u r e t h a t I r e f e r r e d t o

b e f o r e , when I w o r k e d i n p a r t w i t h D r . Dobbs , a l s o c h e c k i n g

o n a f e l l o w named C a r p e n t i e r who p r e s u m a b l y made a f a t t y

compound o u t o f d o g s o r some s u c h t h i n g . I n v e s t i g a t i o n

was a b o u t 1 9 4 3 - 4 4 a n d e n d e d u p i n a p r o s e c u t i o n i n Newark ,

New J e r s e y c o u r t .

I n l a t e r y e a r s , p r o b a b l y i n t h e l a t e 4 0 ' s on, t h e r e

was c o n t i n u i n g o v e r - t h e - c o u n t e r d r u g work . T h e r e were t w o

p h a s e s , one o f c o u r s e , d r u g w o r k t h a t was done t h r o u g h t h e

s a l e o f p i l l s . Q u a n t i t i e s w e r e p u r c h a s e d by I n s p e c t o r s

w o r k i n g o u t o f New Y o r k . As r e s i d e n t i n New J e r s e y o u t o f

Newark , I h a d t o c h e c k numbers o f c o m p l a i n t s , d r u g s t o r e s ,

e t c . , i l l e g a l s a l e s w h i c h r e s u l t e d i n q u i t e a f e w p r o s e c u -

t i o n c a s e s . The t h i n g t h a t a l w a y s i r k e d me was t h a t i f y o u

go i n l i k e a l o c a l y o k e l y o u c a n make a b u y , b u t K i l l i n g s -

w o r t h i n s i s t e d , and i t may h a v e b e e n a d m i n i s t r a t i v e p o l i c y ,

t h a t y o u h a d t o h a v e t w o i n s p e c t o r s t o make a b u y o r y o u

c o u l d n ' t s u b s t a n t i a t e a c a s e i n c o u r t . W e l l , I c o u l d make

b u y s i n p r a c t i c a l l y a n y d r u g s t o r e t h a t I w a n t e d t o . I f

y o u wen t i n a t o d d h o u r s and d r e s s e d a c e r t a i n way, y o u

s o r t o f h a d an a p p e a l t h a t t h e y c o u l d n ' t t u r n down. T h e r e

w e r e a b o u t a h a l f d o z e n c a s e s w h e r e I knew t h a t t h e y w e r e

s e l l i n g d r u g s i l l e g a l l y , b u t no one e l s e c o u l d seem t o make

a buy . F o r i n s t a n c e , one o f the...men t h a t b r o a d c a s t o n

t h e r a d i o f r o m New Y o r k h i s w i f e became a d d i c t e d t o S e c o n a l

t h a t s h e g o t i n a d r u g s t o r e i n P l a i n f i e l d , New J e r s e y .

w e n t i n t h e r e l i k e l a t e i n t h e day , w i t h my o l d p a i n t e r ' s

I

g i v s a p h o n e y a d d r e s s , l i k e an a p a r t m e n t n e a r t h e r e , e t c . ,

and h e t o l d me...he w e n t o u t . . . " I c h e c k e d o n i t a n d I

d i d n ' t s e e y o u r name o n t h e m a i l b o x i n t h a t a p a r t m e n t . "

W e l l , y o u w o u l d g i v e some e x c u s e and he w c ~ u l d f o l l o w me o u t

and y o u w o u l d see h i m l o o k i n t h e f r o n t o f t h e s t o r e a n d I

w o u l d go i n t o some f a c t o r y n e a r t h e r e , i n t h e d o o r as i f I

w e r e a n o o n t i m e w o r k e r . I n o r d e r t o make b u y s , y o u h a d t o

do t h o s e t h i n g s . So, we f i n a l l y b u i l t a c a s e a g a i n s t h im .

The i n t e r e s t i n g p a r t o f i t was t h a t one o f t h e New

J e r s e y S t a t e Pharmacy B o a r d members, h i s name was V i t a l e

w i t h whom I w o r k e d . W e l l , t h e v i o l a t o r was a n o l d g e n t l e -

man, l o s t h i s d r u g s t o r e , b u t V i t a l e g a v e h i m a j o b a t h i s

d r u g s t o r e i n R u t h e r f o r d . What h a p p e n e d t h e S t a t e I n s p e c -

t o r was s h o p p i n g a r o u n d and w e n t i n a n d he s o l d h i m p i l l s .

So a s a member o f t h e Pharmacy B o a r d h e h a d t o f i n e

h i m s e l f .

L o f s v o l d : H i s own s t o r e .

S c h o o n o v e r : A n o t h e r v e r y i n t e r e s t i n g one was a c o m p l a i n t

f r o m K e y p o r t , New J e r s e y . The d r u g s t o r e o p e r a t e r t h e r e

was s e l l i n g p i l l s t o k i d s . An i n v e s t i g a t i o n d e v e l o p e d a n d

he was p r e t t y s o o n f i l l i n g f o r v a r i o u s k i n d s o f d r u g s

f rom.. . One o f t h e women f r o m t h e New York o f f i c e l i v e d

t h e r e and so I h a d h e r a r r a n g e t h a t i f t h e d r u g g i s t c a l l e d

t o c h e c k u p o n t h e a d d r e s s t h a t I g a v e , w h i c h was h e r

home, t h a t e v e r y t h i n g w o u l d b e k o s h e r , I was a l o c a l

f e l l o w . So i t w o r k e d a n d he was p r o s e c u t e d . I t t u r n e d o u t

t h a t h e was t h e l o c a l P o s t M a s t e r t h e r e . He r a n t h e d r u g

s t o r e o n t h e s i d e . B u t t h e r e a r e many i n t e r e s t i n g c a s e s i n

c l o s i n g o u t d r u g s t o r e s .

L o f s v o l d : T h e n a f t e r t h a t we g o t m o r e i n t o t h e d e a l i n g

w i t h p r o f e s s i o n a l p e d d l e r s t h a t d i d n ' t e v e n h a v e t h e f r o n t

o f a d r u g s t o r e .

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t , r i g h t .

T h e n o s t e n s i b l y t h e s t a t e t o o k o v e r some o f t h e w o r k .

I a l w a y s h a d a u n e a s y f e e l i n g a b o u t t h e s t a t e , a s n i c e a s

some o f t h e o f f i c i a l s were. Some o f t h e men e m p l o y e d b y

t h e m w e r e j u s t n o t t o b e t r u s t e d .

On t h i s " i n k i e " e g g w o r k , we f o u n d t h e p l a c e b a c k i n

Newark t h a t h a d a l l t h e b r e a k i n g e q u i p m e n t , e t c . i n t h e r e

a n d t h e y w e r e a c t u a l l y u s i n g i n c u b a t o r r e j e c t s a n d s e l l i n g

them. So, I c h e c k e d w i t h t h e s t a t e a n d t h e s t a t e e m b a r g o e d

i t a n d p l a c e d a n I n s p e c t o r , t o g u a r d t h e p r e m i s e s s u p p o s -

e d l y a l l n i g h t , u n t i l t h e e q u i p m e n t c o u l d b e t a k e n o u t t h e

n e x t d a y on a s e i z u r e b a s i s . What h a p p e n e d , h e c l a i m e d h e

was g e t t i n g a c u p o f c o f f e e , i n a n e a r b y d i n e r , a n d when h e

w e n t b a c k e v e r y t h i n g was gone.

L o f s v o l d : N o t v e r y l i k e l y w i t h t h e amoun t o f e q u i p m e n t

t h a t t h e y had.

I n r e c e n t , y e a r s we h a v e s p e n t a l o t o f t i m e i n s p e c t i n g

t h e m a n u f a c t u r e r s o f p h a r m a c e u t i c a l s . When y o u f i r s t w e r e

a r o u n d New Y o r k , d i d we d o much o f t h a t , i n s p e c t i n g p e o p l e

l i k e S q u i b b , a n d s u c h f i r m s ?

S c h o o n o v e r : Yes, i n s p e c t i o n s w e r e made, b u t t h e y w e r e made

on a l i t t l e d i f f e r e n t b a s i s , a c t u a l l y a l o t d i f f e r e n t t h a n

t h e y a r e made t o d a y . I n s p e c t i o n s t o o k much, much l e s s

t i m e . Today s o m e t i m e s t h e I n s p e c t o r s a r e i n t h e p l a n t f o r

a week o r t w o . T h e n i n s p e c t i o n s c o n s i s t e d e s s e n t i a l l y , o f

c h e c k i n g t h e i r r a w m a t e r i a l s e c t i o n t o make s u r e t h a t

e v e r y t h i n g was p r o p e r l y l a b e l l e d a n d s t o r e d , t h a t w e i g h i n g s

w e r e d o u b l e c h e c k e d , t h a t t h e l a b e l s w e r e c o u n t e d o u t f o r a

m a c h i n e a n d p r o p e r l y p l a c e d , t h a t t h e l a b e l 1 in g m a c h i n e

i t s e l f , t h a t p r i o r l a b e l s h a d b e e n c l e a r e d o u t s o t h a t

t h e r e was no c h a n c e o f a m i x u p t h e r e , b u t t h a t was e s s e n -

t i a l l y i t . I t w a s n ' t u n t i l l a t e r y e a r s t h a t f u l l f l e d g e d

c h e c k i n g o f f o r m u l a t i o n s , e t c . came i n t o b e i n g .

L o f s v o l d : A t t h a t t i m e d i d n ' t we d e p e n d a g r e a t d e a l o n

t h e a n a l y s i s o f t h e f i n a l p r o d u c t , ~ h e t h e ri t m e t t h e

s p e c i f i c a t i o n s , e i t h e r t h e i r s o r t h e U.S.P. o r s o m e t h i n g ?

S c h o o n o v e r : D e f i n i t e l y . H u n d r e d s a n d h u n d r e d s o f s a m p l e s

w e r e s o c o l l e c t e d . The d r u g work t h a t I d i d i n C h i c a g o ,

t h a t was e s s e n t i a l l y t h a t t y p e o f work . Once i n a w h i l e

y o u w o u l d h a v e c o m p l a i n t s , p h y s i c i a n s a n d o t h e r s . We d i d a

l o t o f w o r k c h e c k i n g on e t h e r . We c o l l e c t e d q u a r t e r p o u n d s

a n d h a l f p o u n d s , a t h o s p i t a l s a n d b r o u g h t t h e m i n f o r

a n a l y s i s .

L o f s v o l d : Was t h a t l o o k i n g f o r d e c o m p o s i t i o n i n s t o r a g e ?

A l d e h y d e s ? I remember t h a t we s t i l l h a d q u o t a s a m p l e s o f

e t h e r when I s t a r t e d . I t s t o p p e d a f e w y e a r s a f t e r t h a t .

I g u e s s we w e r e n ' t f i n d i n g enough w r o n g t h a t j u s t i f i e d t h e

e x p e n s e .

S c h o o n o v e r : What was i t we c h e c k e d o n t h e n t o o . . . We h a d

t o p u t i n s o many h o u r s i n o n p r o j e c t w o r k , o n w h a t d i d

t h e y c a l l i t now, o l e o , o l e o p r o j e c t , r e m e m b e r ?

L o f s v o l d : Yes.

S c h o o n o v e r : So.. .. L o f s v o l d : T h a t was a f t e r t h e t a x l a w was c h a n g e d , s o t h a t

y e l l o w o l e o became l e g a l .

S c h o o n o v e r : T h a t ' s i t . Ify o u a p p r o a c h e d t h e e n d o f m o n t h

and y o u d i d n ' t h a v e t h e number o f i n s p e c t i o n h o u r s t h a t

w e r e r e q u i r e d , t h e C h i e f I n s p e c t o r w o u l d s a y y o u p u t down

f o u r h o u r s , y o u p u t down s i x h o u r s , e t c .

L o f s v o l d : T h a t was i n o r d e r t o m e e t t h e r e q u i r e m e n t s .

Who w e r e some o f t h e e a r l y D r u g I n s p e c t o r s t h a t y o u

l e a r n e d d r u g i n s p e c t i o n f r o m ?

S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , o f c o u r s e , t h e m a i n one was C h a r l i e

Hyak. He was known as M r . D r u g , b u t he was p r e t t y c l o s e d -

mou thed , h e k e p t e v e r y t h i n g t o h i m s e l f a n d e v e r y b i t h e

w a n t e d t o d o b y h i m s e l f . You g o t l i t t l e t r a i n i n g f r o m

C h a r 1 i e . C h a r 1 ie G r e e n l e e d i d c o n s i d e r a b l e d r u g work . O f

c o u r s e , h e was a p h a r m a c i s t . S O I w o u l d c h e c k w i t h h i m on

many o c c a s i o n s .

L o f s v o l d : Uas J o h n y C a i n i n v o l v e d t o o ?

S c h o o n o v e r : N o t t o a n y g r e a t e x t e n t . He ,was.. . S t u Z e c k e n d o r f d i d q u i t e a b i t o f d r u g i n s p e c t i o n , b u t

h e was a f a s t o p e r a t o r . He d i d n ' t seem t o s p e n d much t i m e .

T h e n l a t e r he s p e c i a l i z e d on a n t i b i o t i c s and t h e n l a t e r he

q u i t and w e n t i n t o t h e n u r s i n g home b u s i n e s s .

L o f s v o l d : A b o u t t h a t t i m e C h a r l i e Wayne was c o m i n g t o b e

t h e p r i n c i p a l D r u g I n s p e c t o r , o f t h e w h o l e c o u n t r y .

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t .

L o f s v o l d : S t u , I w o u l d l i k e t o t a l k w i t h y o u now a l i t t l e

b i t a b o u t t h e p e r s o n a l i t i e s o f C o m m i s s i o n e r s a n d o t h e r t o p

o f f i c i a l s t h a t y o u m i g h t h a v e known, a s t o w h a t k i n d o f

p e o p l e t h e y w e r e and how t h e y managed, e t c . You w e r e

a p p o i n t e d , I guess , when W a l t e r G. C a m p b e l l was Commis-

s i o n e r ? D i d y o u e v e r mee t h i m ?

S c h o o n o v e r : Oh, y e s . We h a d c o n f e r e n c e s f o r t h e E a s t e r n

D i s t r i c t , a t t h e New Y o r k D i s t r i c t , e a c h y e a r . R e p r e s e n t a -

t i v e s f r o m t h e e a s t c o a s t w o u l d b e t h e r e a n d W a l t e r

C a m p b e l l w o u l d b e t h e r e and t a l k t o t h e g r o u p a n d I m e t h i m

a number o f t i m e s . I n l a t e r y e a r s , I m e t h i m a t a D i s t r i c t

m e e t i n g i n C i n c i n n a t i , I was c a l l e d down ,when I was R e s i -

d e n t I n s p e c t o r i n C l e v e l a n d , f o r c o n f e r e n c e s a c o u p l e o f

t i m e s a y e a r . One l i t t l e t h i n g s t a n d s o u t , he was i n q u i r -

i n g i n t o t h e work i t s e l f and h e w a n t e d t h i n g s d o n e

p r o p e r l y . I remember one t i m e , B i l l y F o r d , o n e o f h i s

C h i e f I n s p e c t o r s i n C i n c i n n a t i when we w e r e t h e r e , d e s -

c r i b e d , I t h i n k , i t was E l i L i l l y i n I n d i a n a p o l i s , h e h a d

made a n i n s p e c t i o n o f t h e i r d r u g p l a n t . He h a d a f i l e t h a t

was a b o u t a h a l f a f o o t t h i c k w i t h a z i l l i o n l a b e l s , e v e r y -

t h i n g b e a u i f u l l y s e t up, a n d B i l l y t o l d a l l a b o u t t h e

i n s p e c t i o n g o i n g f r o m d e p a r t m e n t t o d e p a r t m e n t . F i n a l l y ,

C a m p b e l l 1 s t e n e d q u i e t l y , t h e n h e s a i d , " B i l l y , d i d y o u

f i n d a n y t h n g w r o n g ? " B i l l y s a i d , "No, i t was a b e a u t i f u l

p l a n t . " He made some comments. He t h o u g h t , t h a t u s u a l l y ,

t h e r e i s s o m e t h i n g w r o n g t o b e f o u n d i n e v e r y p l a n t i f y o u

work h a r d enough .

To g e t b a c k t o i4r. W h a r t o n , i n t h e New Y o r k D i s t r i c t ,

h e was q u i t e a l e a d e r . He o p e r a t e d b y a s s i g n i n g w o r k p r o -

j e c t s t o t h o s e t h a t h e l p e d h i m i n h i s o f f i c i a l d i s t r i c t

wo rk . One o f h i s t r i c k s was t o g e t t hem. . .he re is t h i s

p r o b l e m , h e r e i s t h i s l e t t e r , now y o u w r i t e a l e t t e r f o r me

i n r e p l y . By s o d o i n g h e c o u l d p u t h i s f i n g e r s o n i n d i v i -

d u a l s who w e r e c:oming u p t h r o u g h t h e l i n e , i f t h e y h a d a n y

r e a l a b i l i t y t o make s e n s e o u t o f i t .

He w o u l d cclme down f r o m h i s h i g h p o s i t i o n a n d go

a r o u n d w i t h I n s p e c t o r s , now a n d t h e n . I n f a c t , h e came u p

t o B o s t o n a n d w e n t a r o u n d w i t h me o n some i n s p e c t i o n s .

L o f s v o l d : He was r a t h e r a u t o c r a t i c , w a s n ' t h e ?

S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , t h a t i s wha t I was g e t t i n g t o , y e s . He,

when t h e w o r k l o a d g o t p r e t t y h e a v y a n d I t h i n k h e had...

Lowe was t h e name o f one o f t h e i n d i v i d u a l s t h e r e .

L o f s v o l d : Yes. A u s t i n Lowe.

S c h o o n o v e r : A u s t i n Lowe. S t u a r t P o s t l e , when I came

t h e r e , was one o f h i s r i g h t h a n d men. Then l a t e r , t h e y

e a c h became S t a t i o n C h i e f s , b u t l a t e r when t h e l o a d g o t

h e a v y h e w o u l d j u s t s a y t o t h o s e i n t h e o f f i c e , " Y o u ' r e

s t a y i n g t o n i g h t , a n d y o u ' r e s t a y i n g u n t i l we g e t t h i s w o r k

d o n e a n d t h a t i s i t . " So, t h e y w o u l d h a v e t o c l e a r t h e i r

d e s k f o r t h e n e x t day . Oh , t h e y h a t e d t h a t . T h e y w o u l d be

t h e r e u n t i l 9 o ' c l o c k a t i g h t ,n w i t h t h e i r f a m i l i e s w a i t -

i n g , t h e y h a d c o m m i t m e n t s , e t c . I t d i d n ' t make a n y d i f -

f e r e n c e , y o u w e r e s t a y i n g .

L o f s v o l d : T h a t was h a r d l y t h e way t o makc! f r i e n d s o f y o u r

e m p l o y e e s .

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . B u t somehow, h e h a d a h o l d o n i n d u s -

t r y , when he c o u l d c a l l i n d u s t r y o n some s p e c i a l i z e d p r o b -

l e m s a n d t h e y w o u l d b r i n g t h e i n f o r m a t i o n r i g h t o v e r . T h e y

r e s p e c t e d t h e man, t h e way h e c o n d u c t e d t h e D i s t r i c t w o r k ,

t h e S t a t i o n work .

J. 0. C l a r k e , w e l l I ' v e t a l k e d a b o u t h i m b e f o r e . He

was q u i t e a D i r e c t o r .

L o f s v o l d : He was h e r e i n New Y o r k when y o u s t a r t e d a n d

t h e n w e n t t o t h e C e n t r a l D i s t r i c t ?

S c h o o n o v e r : T h a t ' s r i g h t . He was t h e C h i e f o f t h e New

Y o r k S t a t i o n .

L o f s v o l d : Then w e n t o u t t h e r e as C h i e f o f t h e C e n t r a l

D i s t r i c t .

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . C h i e f o f t h e C e n t r a l D i s t r i c t .

L o f s v o l d : B e f o r e y o u w e n t t o C h i c a g o ?

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t .

L o f s v o l d : He was k i n d o f a d i f f e r e n t i n d i v i d u a l t h a n M r .

W h a r t o n , w a s n ' t h e ?

S c h o o n o v e r : Oh, a s much d i f f e r e n c e a s n i g h t a n d d a y .

W h a r t o n was, w e ' l l h e was a s t u d i o u s t y p e b u t i t i s h a r d t o

d e s c r i b e . J. 0.. C l a r k e was a c h e m i s t , t o b e g i n w i t h , a n d

a l l b u s i n e s s . W h a r t o n l i k e d h i s good t i m e s a n d h e c o u l d

r e l e n t a n d we h a d a number o f d i s t r i c t g e t t o g e t h e r s a n d h e

was a l w a y s i n t e r e s t e d i n a p a r t y . O f c o u r s e , a s I i n d i -

c a t e d b e f o r e , o n S a t u r d a y a f t e r n o o n s when t h e y g o t i n t h e

b a c k l a b o r a t o r y w e l l h e e n j o y e d t h a t a g r e a t d e a l .

L o f s v o l d : He j o i n e d t h e p o k e r game t o o ?

S c h o o n o v e r : He and, w h a t was h i s name, t h e I m p o r t

D i v i s i o n . . . I cart s t i l l s e e h im.

I t was a b o u t t h a t t i m e t o o , remember t h e i m p o r t w i n e

f r o m P o r t u g a l , p a r t i c u l a r l y , t h a t h a d g l a s s i n t h e w i n e .

L o f s v o l d : Oh, y e s . The g l a s s s p l i n t e r s .

S c h o o n o v e r : Yes. A f t e r i t was t e s t e d t h a t was a v a i l a b l e

a n d some o f i t seemed t o d i s a p p e a r , s o m e t i m e s .

L o f s v o l d : Was J . 0 . a c a r d p l a y e r wh i l e h e was h e r e ?

S c h o o n o v e r : I n e v e r was t o o c l o s e t o t h a t e n d o f t h i n g s .

ye a l w a y s seemed t o be j u s t b u s i n e s s 1 i k e and t h a t was i t .

L o f s v o l d : D i d y o u h a v e much c o n t a c t w i t h h i m when y o u w e r e

i n C h i c a g o ?

S c h o o n o v e r : Yes, I w o u l d go i n t o t h e o f f i c e t o t a l k w i t h

h i m on d i f f e r e n t p r o b l e m s . He w o u l d c a l l ,you i n a n d i f y o u

w e n t o f f on a t r i p o r j u s t a n a s s i g n m e n t , s o m e t i m e s he...

y o u w o u l d g e t a c a l l t o go i n and h e w o u l d t a l k o v e r t h e

a r e a o f w h a t y o u w e r e g o i n g t o do , e t c . Showed t h a t h e h a d

an i n t e r e s t and h i s f i n g e r on e v e r y t h i n g t h a t was g o i n g on.

He c a l l e d me i n , he g o t a l e t t e r i n F r e n c h a n d a s k e d me...

I h a d F r e n c h i n h i g h s c h o o l and I c o u I d make s e n s e o u t o f

i t . Then o n c e i n a w h i l e he w o u l d t a l k a b o u t t h i n g s t h a t

h a p p e n e d i n New Y o r k .

L o f s v o l d : D i d y o u s e e much o f N c K i n n o n , when h e was h e r e

i n t h e E a s t e r n D i s t r i c t , w o r k i n g a s C h i e f o f New Y o r k ?

S c h o o n o v e r : Oh, y e s . Mac h a n d e d me a numiber o f a s s i g n -

m e n t s t o r e p o r t t o h im . L i k e t h e p r o j e c t on t h e s o l d i e r

g i f t p a c k a g e s we w e r e t a l k i n g a b o u t .

W o r k i n g u p one case , h e w a n t e d a p r i c : e c o m p a r i s i o n ,

t o o . So I g o t a l l t h e f i g u r e s o n t h e c o s t , o f t h e i n g r e -

d i e n t s i n t h e p a c k a g e t o show t h a t t h e p r i c e t h a t t h e y

a s k e d f o r t h e m was o u t r a g e o u s , c o m p a r e d w i t h w h a t w e n t i n .

Soda c r a c k e r s , p r u n e s , a f e w f i g s ...

L o f s v o l d : Now, t h e s e w e r e t h e p a c k a g e s t h a t c o m ~ a n i e s made

u p f o r p e o p l e t o s e n d t o s o l d i e r s d u r i n g W o r l d War I I ?

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . I n t h e d e p a r t m e n t s t o r e s , y o u l o o k e d

a t a s a m p l e o f i t a n d i t l o o k e d b e a u t i f u l .

L o f s v o l d : B u t t h e p a c k a g e t h a t t h e y s e n t w a s n ' t t h e same

as t h e s a m p l e t h a t y o u saw?

S c h o o n o v e r . R i g h t . I remember J u d g e G o d d a r d i n t h e

S o u t h e r n D i s t r i c t o f New York , a p r o s e c u t i o n c a s e t h e r e .

He t o o k t h e p a c k a g e , o n e o f o u r o f f i c i a l s a m p l e s , o n t h e

b e n c h a n d t h e l o w e r l a y e r was h e l d u p b y s o d a c r a c k e r s o v e r

a p r u n e i n f o u r c o r n e r s and t h e n t h e y h a d e x p e n s i v e maca-

r o o n s a n d s t u f f o n t o p . He t o o k t h e p a c k a g e a n d c h e w i n g

o u t t h e d e f e n d a ~ t , h e s lammed t h e p a c k a g e o n h i s b e n c h a n d

t h e s t u f f w e n t f l y i n g a l l o v e r t h e room.

L o f s v o l d : I r e m e m b e r c o l l e c t i n g a s a m p l e o f o n e o f t h o s e

p a c k a g e s , o n a n a s s i g n m e n t f r o m New Y o r k when I was a R e s i -

d e n t a t S p o k a n e and t h e s h i p m e n t h a d b e e n made t o a s a i l o r

a t F a r r a g u t N a v a l Base, i n I d a h o ,

L o f s v o l d : S t u , y o u h a v e g i v e n u s a l o t o f g o o d i n f o r m a t i o n

h e r e a b o u t w h a t i t was l i k e t o b e a n i n s p e c t o r i n t h e

1 9 3 0 ' s a n d t h e k i n d o f w o r k t h a t y o u d i d . I s t h e r e a n y -

t h i n g e l s e t h a t y o u c a n s a y a b o u t t h a t ?

S c h o o n o v e r : The w o r k t h a t I d i d . . . A t o n e t i m e M r .

W h a r t o n r e q u e s t e d t h a t I s e n d h i m a r e p o r t o f my a c t i v i t i e s

in . . . w h i l e R e s i d e n t a t P r o v i d e n c e , Rhode I s l a n d a n d

s u m m a r i z e t h e work t h a t c o u l d b e d o n e i n t h e t e r r i t o r y . I

t h e r e a f t e r a d d r e s s e d a t h r e e p a g e l e t t e r t o h i m , d a t e d

December 18 , 1 9 3 6 , s e t t i n g f o r t h a l l t h e w o r k a c c o m p l i s h e d

and t h a t w h i c h c o u l d b e a c c o m p l i s h e d i n t h e Rhode I s l a n d ,

Cape Cod a r e a . A g o o d p a r t o f t h e w o r k t h e r e , a t t h a t

t i m e , s i n c e t h e r e was no r e a l l y l a r g e m a n u f a c t u r e r s c o n -

s i s t e d o f s u r v e i l a n c e and p i c k i n g u p l e a d s o n i t e m s t h a t

w e r e m i s b r a n d e d , a d u l t e r a t e d , e t c . Many o f t h e r e q u e s t s

w e r e r e c e i v e d f r o m o t h e r d i s t r i c t s a r o u n d t h e c o u n t r y , t o

c h e c k o n p r o d u c t s s h i p p e d . I n o t i c e d o n t h e c o p y t h a t I

h a v e t h a t t h e r e w e r e s e i z u r e s a n d many s a m p l e s o f t e a s e e d

o i l c o l l e c t e d . D r u g s , s a m p l e s o f c a n n e d s a l m o n , m a c a r o n i ,

t o m a t o p a s t e , a n d i n t h o s e d a y s t h e r e w e r e a l o t m o r e w i l d

' c l a i m s o n d r u g i t e m s , p a t e n t m e d i c i n e s , a number o f w h i c h

came f r o m s m a l l t o w n s i n o t h e r a r e a s o f t h e N e r E n g l a n d

s t a t e s . I t seemed l i k e e a c h l i t t l e c o u n t y h a d i t s own

remedy f o r some p a r t i c u l a r home c u r e and t h e y w e r e n ' t t o o

c a r e f u l a b o u t w h a t c l a i m s t h e y made f o r i t . .

T h e r e w e r e c o l d s t o r a g e s i n P r o v i d e n c e a n d i n New

B e d f o r d a n d F a l l R i v e r . L a t e r d u r i n g t h e d e p r e s s i o n

P r o v i d e n c e a n d F a l l R i v e r t h e y a l m o s t l o o k e d l i k e w a r t o r n

t o w n s b e c a u s e t h e y h a d h u g e b r i c k w a l l e d s t o r a g e s t h a t i n

o r d e r t o s a v e t a x e s t h e y j u s t b l e w t h e m u p a n d t o r e t h e m

down b e c a u s e t h e b u s i n e s s was s o p o o r that : t h e p r o d u c t s

d i d n ' t come f o r s t o r a g e i n many a r e a s .

I w o r k e d v e r y c l o s e l y w i t h C h a r l i e H o p k i n s , who was

t h e h e a d o f t h e Rhode I s l a n d S t a t e F o o d a n d D r u g

A d m i n i s t r a t i o n .

L o f s v o l d : We c a n t a k e t h a t memorandum t h a t y o u w r o t e ,

a p p e n d a c o p y f o r t h e t r a n s c r i p t o f t h i s i n t e r v i e w s o t h

w h o e v e r i s i n t e r e s t e d i n i t c a n r e a d t h e w h o l e s t o r y a s t o

w h a t was g o i n g on. A t t h a t t i m e , t h a t was a new R e s i d e n t

I n s p e c t i o n p o s t , w a s n ' t i t ? You w e r e t h e f i r s t o n e t o go

t h e r e ? Was t h e r e anyone , o t h e r R e s i d e n t p o s t u n d e r B o s t o n

o v e r i n C o n n e c t i c u t a t t h a t t i m e o r was C o n n e c t i c u t t h e n

d i v i d e d w i t h New Y o r k ?

S c h o o n o v e r : No. A t t h a t t i m e , H a r t f o r d m u s t h a v e b e e n

u n d e r t h e B o s t o n D i s t r i c t a t t h a t t i m e , b e c a u s e I -know I

w e n t o v e r t h e r e a number o f t i m e s .

L o f s v o l d : B u t t h e r e was no R e s i d e n t p o s t a t H a r t f o r d ?

S c h o o n o v e r : No.

L o f s v o l d : New Y o r k u s e d t o h a v e somebody u p t h e r e a t

W a t e r b u r y . I w o n d e r i f t h e y ... S c h o o n o v e r : T h e r e was a R e s i d e n t p o s t t h e r e .

L o f s v o l d : T h a t was u n d e r t h e New Y o r k o f f i c e ?

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . A t t h a t t i m e I d o n ' t t h i n k t h a t t h e r e

was a n y R e s i d e n t p o s t , o t h e r t h a n t h e i n t i a l one s t a r t e d

a t P r o v i d e n c e . O f c o u r s e , o u t o f a o s t o n y o u w o u l d p r e p a r e

a t r i p a n d u s u a l l y y o u w o u l d go t o , o v e r t o S p r i n g f i e l d ,

M a s s a c h u s e t t s a n d k e e p on and s t a y o v e r n g h t maybe a t N o r t h

Adams, and t h e n up t o V e r m o n t and s w i n g b a c k t h r o u g h W h i t e

R i v e r J u n c t i o n a n d s t o p , i f i t was t h e p r o p e r t i m e o f t h e

y e a r , a t t h e c a n n i n g p l a n t s i n F r y e b u r g , M a i n e a n d t h e n

s w i n g up t o t h e E a s t C o a s t and t h e n b a c k down t o B o s t o n .

O f c o u r s e , B o s t o n h a d a g r e a t d e a l o f wo rk i n t h e s a r d i n e

c a n n e r i e s on u p t o L u b e c , M a i n e a c r o s s f r o ~ n t h e C a n a d i a n

b o r d e r .

L o f s v o l d : Vas t h e r e much d o i n g i n map l e s u g a r a n d m a p l e

s y r u p , i n New E n g l a n d a t t h a t t i m e .

S c h o o n o v e r : Yes, b u t n o t t o e x t e n s i v e

T h e r e was one s t o r e p a r t i c u l a r l y i n 3 o s t o n t h a t s p e -

c i a l i z e d i n h a n d l i n g m a p l e s y r u p , f r o m many a r e a s a r o u n d

t h e New E n g l a n d s t a t e s . A g o o d p a r t o f t h e w o r k c o n s i s t e d

o f c o l l e c t i n g s a m p l e s f r o m t h e r e f o r a n a l y s i s t o s e e

w h e t h e r t h e s u g a r was a d u l t e r a t e d o r n o t .

W h i l e w o r k i n g o u t o f New Y o r k , one a r e a p r o d u c e d some

m a p l e s y r u p , i t was a r o u n d C o r t l a n d , New Y o r k . One way o f

c h e c k i n g was t o go t o t h e l o c a l f a r m e r s s u p p l y p l a c e a n d

s t r i k e u p a c o n v e r s a t i o n w i t h t h e m and i n t h e c o u r s e o f

w h i c h y o u w o u l d t r y t o f i n d o u t w h i c h f a r m e r , o r m a p l e

s y r u p p r o d u c e r h a d b o u g h t 100 p o u n d s b a g s o f s u g a r f r o m

them. I f y o u w e r e s u c c e s s f u l y o u c o u l d t r a c e i t b a c k , n o t

n e c e s s a r i l y q u e s t i o n i n g t h e p r o d u c e r t o o much b e c a u s e he

w o u l d n ' t t e l l y o u i n t h e f i r s t p l a c e . B u t t o c h e c k t o s e e

i f he had made any i n t e r s t a t e s h i p m e n t s , a n y t r u c k i n g

l i n e s , o r f r e i g h t o f f i c e s , e t c .

L o f s v o l d : Was l e a d i n m a p l e s y r u p a p r o b l e m a t t h a t t i m e ?

S c h o o n o v e r : Yes, t h e r e was i n t h e e a r l y d a y s l e a d i n m a p l e

s y r u p . T h a t was. . . I s h o u l d h a v e m e n t i o n e d t h a t b e f o r e .

T h a t was t h e m a i n p r o b l e m o t h e r t h a n t h e a d u l t e r a t i o n t h a t

was i n v e s t i g a t e d . A g a i n , i t was b a s e d o n s a m p l e s t h a t w e r e

p i c k z d u p and c h e c k e d f o r l e a d c o n t e n t .

L o f s v o l d : T h e r e was no way y o u c o u l d t e l l f rom... .

S c h o o n o v e r : W h e t h e r t h e b u c k e t s w e r e s o l d e r e d , o r w h a t .

L o f s v o l d : I s t h a t w h e r e t h e l e a d came f rom, m o s t l y f r o m

s o l d e r ?

S c h o o n o v e r : T h a t ' s my u n d e r s t a n d i n g , p l u s , c o l l e c t i n g

b u c k e t s p a i n t e d w i t h w h i t e l e a d p a i n t .

L o f s v o l d : S t u a r t , a t t h e s t a r t o f t h i s i n t e r v i e w y o u men-

t i o n e d t h a t i n t h e l a t e r y e a r s . b e f o r e y o u r e t i r e d , y o u

w e r e w o r k i n g as an i n d u s t r y l i a s i o n o f f i c e r w i t h t h e New

Y o r k D i s t r i c t . C o u l d y o u t e l l me a l i t t l e b i t a b o u t t h a t

w o r k ?

Sch o o n o v e r : I t h i n k , a c c o r d i n g t o w h a t Weems C l e v e n g e r

t o 1 d me when h e a p p o i n t e d me, t h a t I was t h e f i r s t I n d u s t r y

Re 1 a t i o n s O f f i c e r i n t h e c o u n t r y , w o r k i n g f r o m a D i s t r i c t

in t h e f i e l d . I w e n t i n t o i t , y o u m i g h t s a y c o l d , a n d y o u

p r e p a r e d t h e p r o g r a m y o u r s e l f . I h a d a f e e l i n g t o b e g i n

w i t h t h a t I w o u l d g e t some h e l p f r o m t h e i n s p e c t i o n e n d

o f i t , i n a r e a s t h a t t h e y c o n s i d e r e d m o s t v i o l a t i v e o n

t h e b a s i s o f f o o d , d r u g s , e t c . T h a t d i d n ' t seem t o

e v e n t u a t e , s o I s t a r t e d m y s e l f . The f i r s t o n e I i h e l d was

one f o r C h i n e s e n o o d l e s . It was e v i d e n t t h a t t h e y h a d b e e n

h a v i n g t r o u b l e w i t h t h e s e m a n u f a c t u r e r s . So I f o u n d o u t

who was t h e m a i n C h i n e s e n o o d l e m a n u f a c t u r e r t h a t h a d c o n -

t r o l t o sway o v e r t h e o t h e r s and w e n t t o s e e h im. We h a d a

v e r y n i c e d i s c u s s i o n a n d a f t e r s e v e r a l v i s i t s h e s a i d ,

"I'llh e l p y o u w i t h t h e s e m i n a r , w o r k s h o p , a n d d o n ' t w o r r y

1 ' 1 1 g e t t h e m a l l t h e r e " , w h i c h h e d i d . So we h a d e v e r y

m a n u f a c t u r e r i n t h e w h o l e a r e a come, I t h i n k t h e r e w e r e

a b o u t 2 0 o r s o m e t h i n g l i k e t h a t . Ue he I d i t i n t h e D i s -

t r i c t o f f i c e . T h a t was t h e o n l y one heI d i n a D i s t r i c t

o f f i c e . I h a d t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f A g r i c u l t u r e t h e r e t o t a l k

a b o u t t h e h a n d l i n g o f e g g s , c a n d l i n g , e t c . , a n d a s p e a k e r

f r o m p r i v a t e i n d u s t r y h a v i n g t o do w i t h s a n i t a t i o n , w h i c h

u a s t h e b i g p r o b l e m w i t h C h i n e s e n o o d l e p l a c e s . S a n i t a t i o n

was j u s t a w f u l i n some p l a c e s . They w o u l d g e t u p w i t h

t h e i r s h o e s on and sweep t h e b i n o u t t h a t h a d n o o d l e s com-

i n g o u t d r y , i t d i d n ' t make a n y d i f f e r e n c e t o them. So,

f r o m t h a t i t l e d i n t o q u i t e a f e w o t h e r s e m i n a r s , t h e f i s h

i n d u s t r y , c o s m e t i c s , a number o n d r u g s , s e v e r a l o f w h i c h

t i e d i n t o P u e r t o R i c o and t h e i r o p e r a t i o n s down t h e r e , t h e

f o o d i n d u s t r y a n d t h e d r u g i n d u s t r y . P u e r t o R i c o , a t t h a t

t i m e , h a d a s a d p e r f o r m a n c e i n t h e f o o d i n d u s t r y , b u t I

g u e s s s i n c e t h e n t h e y h a v e w o r k e d u p i n t o b e t t e r

s a n i t a t i o n .

L o f s v o l d : T h i s w o u l d h a v e b e e n a l o n g a b o u t 1 9 6 6 , 6 7 ?

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t .

L o f s v o l d : A b o u t t h e t i m e t h a t C o m m i s s i o n e r G o d d a r d came

f r o m C.D.C. a n d s t a r t e d e m p h a s i z i n g v o l u n t a r y c o m p l i a n c e ?

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t , r i g h t .

One o f t h e m o s t i n t e r e s t i n g ones t ' h a t I h e l d , o r p r e -

p a r e d , o r p l a n n e d was t h e one f o r t h e F o r e i g n C o n s u l a t e s ,

i t s b r i e f i n g r e l a t i v e t o FDA l a w s a n d i m p o r t r e q u i r e m e n t s .

A p r o g r a m was p r e p a r e d a n d I h a d a r r a n g e d t o u s e , o r p e r -

m i s s i o n h a d b e e 1 g i v e n t o me t o u s e a l a r g e r o o m i n t h e new

U.S. C o u r t i l o u s e i n t h e S o u t h e r n D i s t r i c t i n M a n h a t t a n .

Two d a y s b e f o r e , I f o u n d t h a t some C o n g r e s s m a n h a d r e q u i -

s i t i o n e d t h a t c o u r t r o o m a n d I c o u l d n ' t u s e i t a f t e r a l l t h e

p l a n s h a d b e e n made, w h i c h c a u s e d no e n d o f c o n s t e r n a t i o n .

I i m m e d i a t e l y h a d t o s e t t h e p r o g r a m g o i n g a n d t h e y p e r -

m i t t e d t h e u s e o f a s m a l l e r c o u r t r o o m , b u t we h a d t o t a k e

t h e f r o n t t a b l e s o u t and t h e n I h a d t o p h o n e a n d g e t r e n t a l

c h a i r s t o p u t i n a n d t h e y d e l i v e r e d t h e m o n t i m e a n d f i n -

a l l y g o t e v e r y t h i n g s e t up. E v e n a s i m p l e l i t t l e t h i n g

l i k e t h e c a r d s t h a t I made w i t h t h e names o n f o r t h e

s p e a k e r s a n d p l a c e m e n t w o u l d n ' t f i t o n t h e b e n c h e s t h e way

t h a t I h a d p l a n n e d f o r t h e o t h e r one. So, I h a d t o c h a n g e

t h a t i n a h u r r y . I t h i n k t h a t m o r n i n g I g o t u p a n d w e n t

i n t o t h e o f f i c e a b o u t 4 : 0 0 A.M.to make s u r e t h a t e v e r y t h i n g

was s e t . I t w e n t o f f a l l r i g h t .

L o f s v o l d : T h i s was a t t e n d e d b y t h e r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s o f

f o r e i g n g o v e r n m e n t s ?

S c h o o n o v e r : T h a t i s r i g h t . We h a d q u i t e a f e w r e p r e s e n -

t a t i v e s o f f o r e i g n g o v e r n m e n t s a n d f r o m C o ~ n m u n i s t n a t i o n s .

To w o r k i n t o a f u r t h e r a s p e c t t o i t , I f o u n d t h a t f o r

f u t u r e s u c h p r o g r a m s i t w o r k e d o u t v e r y w e l l t o h a v e t h e

s p e e c h e s p r i n t e d and.. . The Navy h a d a p r i n t i n g o f f i c e ,

a n d a c o m m i s s a r y , c o m m i s s a r y i n t h e A p p r a i s e r s S t o r e B u i l d -

i n g . They h a d a c o m p l e t e s e t up f o r t h e i r p r i n t i n g . I c o n -

t a c t e d t h e m a n d t h e y s a i d t h a t t h e y r a n o u t o f wo rk e v e r y

o n c e i n a w h i l e a n d w e r e g l a d t o h a v e s o m e t h i n g t o do t o

k e e p t h e i r p e o p l e busy . So, a t a n o m i n a l c h a r g e , y o u w r o t e

up t h e p r o g r a m a n d some o f w h i c h , p a r t i c u l a r l y a d r u g p r o -

g ram i n P u e r t o R i c o , was a c c o m p a n i e d by p i c t u r e s i n t h e

p r o g r a m , e t c . , a n d t h e n t h e y p r i n t e d i t up. A c o p y was

t h e r e a f t e r s e n t t o t h e a t t e n d e e s a t t h e c o n f e r e n c e , a n d i t

c r e a t e d a l o t o f i n t e r e s t and t h e y h a d s o m e t h i n g c o n c r e t e

i n t h e i r h a n d s t o remember t h e p r o g r a m w i t h .

L o f s v o l d : I s t h a t t h a t y o u a r e h o l d i n g a c o p y o f t h e

b r i e f i n g p r o g r a m .

S c h o o n o v e r : Yes.

L o f s v o l d : I t i s e n t i t l e d , Speeches F r o m The F o r e i g n

C o n s u l t a t e B r i e f i n g To F u r t h e r U n d e r s t a n d i n q o f FDA Laws

a n d I m p o r t R e q u i r e m e n t s , New Y o r k , New Y o r k , O c t o b e r 2 2 ,

1968.

S t u a r t , do y o u h a v e any o t h e r a n e c d o t e s a b o u t o d d

t h i n g s t h a t h a p p e n e d d u r i n g y o u r c a r e e r ?

S c h o o n o v e r : I r e c a l l a t r i a l i n t h e S o u t h e r n D i s t r i c t o f

New Y o r k , a t w h i c h I h a d t o t e s t i f y . We h a d f o u n d some

s h o r t w e i g h t , q u a r t e r p o u n d c h e e s e s h i p p e d b y K r a f t - P h e n i x

Cheese Co. u p t o C o n n e c t i c u t . I c o l l e c t e d s e v e r a l s a m p l e s ,

s h o r t w e i g h t was p r o v e n i n o u r l a b c h e c k w h i c h r e s u l t e d i n

p r o s e c u t i o n . Hank C r a g i n h a d c h a r g e o f t h e r u n n i n g o f t h e

t r i a l t h e n , f o r FDA, a n d I was o n t h e w i t n e s s s t a n d , I t e s -

t i f i e d i n p a r t a n d I was h a n d e d s a m p l e s h e e t s t o i d e n t i f y ,

c o l l e c t i o n r e p o r t s , e t c . , a n d I h a d a l r e a d y m e n t i o n e d sam-

p l e numbers o n t h e s t a n d a n d h e g a v e me t h o s e s h e e t s t o

i d e n t i f y , b u t somehow i n t o t h e r e c o r d he g a v e me t h e w r o n g

s h e e t s , t h e w r o n g numbers . I s a i d t o m y s e l f , i f I a d m i t

t h a t h e i s i n c o r r e c t i n h a n d i n g t h e w r o n g s a m p l e n u m b e r s ,

i t a i l 1 c a s t a b a d i m p r e s s i o n t o t h e j u r y . So, I w e n t

r i g h t on and t e s t i f i e d a b o u t t h i s s a m p l e number a n d i t

w a s n ' t t h e o n e t h a t I h a d i n my h a n d a n d i t g o t by.

L o f s v o l d : Nobody n o t i c e d ?

S c h o o n o v e r : B u t b o y , d o y o u s w e a t f o r a s e c o n d l i k e t h a t .

I was d e a d wrong . I was u n d e r o a t h on t h e s t a n d .

L o f s v o l d : I f t h e d e f e n s e c o u n s e l h a d p i c k e d t h a t u p , i t

w o u l d h a v e b e e n r a t h e r damag ing .

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . I was r i g h t i n o n e s e n s e b u t w r o n g i n

a n o t h e r .

L o f s v o l d : You w e r e t e s t i f y i n g a b o u t w h a t y o u a c t u a l l y d i d ,

b u t n o t t h e p i e c e o f p a p e r t h a t t h e y were o f f e r i n g f o r

e n t r y i n t h e e v i d e n c e .

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t .

Oh, a l o t o f l i t t l e s i l l y t h i n g s happened . T h e r e was

a d r u g t r i a l , I t h i n k i t was F o r t Wayne, I n d i a n a o n e t i m e ,

I was w o r k i n g o u t o f C h i c a g o . The S t a t e I n s p e c t o r , I c a n ' t

remember t h e e x a c t p r o d u c t , b u t t h e S t a t e I n s p e c t o r h a d

g i v e n some h e l p , b u t he h a p p e n e d t o be a n i n d i v i d u a l whose

n a t u r a l f a c i a l e x p r e s s i o n l o o k e d l i k e h e was s m i l i n g a l l o f

t h e t i m e . I c a n s e e h i m s i t t i n g i n t h e c o u r t r o o m , t h e

j u d g e u p f r o n t , a n d t h e j u d g e k e p t l o o k i n g a t t h i s man a n d

h e m u s t h a v e g o t t h e f e e l i n g t h a t t h i s i n d i v i d u a l was mak-

i n g f u n o f h im. F i n a l l y , h e o r d e r e d h i m o u t o f t h e c o u r t -

room. He j u s t h a d a n a t u r a l e x p r e s s i o n .

The j u d g e s , t h e way t h e y a c t , J u d g e bleaney, i n Newark ,

h e was a J e r s e y C i t y p o l i t i c i a n b e f o r e he was made a j u d g e ,

I guess. T h e r e was a d r u g c a s e a g a i n s t Premo P h a r m a c e u t i -

c a l Co., t h e o t h e r d a y I n o t i c e d i n t h e p a p e r t h a t t h e y a r e

s t i l l i n t r o u b l e . They h a d a number o f p r o s e c u t i o n s .

I was s i t t i n g w i t h a P o s t a l I n s p e c t o r , a n d h e p r o -

n o u n c e d s e n t e n c e i n t h i s c a s e a n d I t h o u g h t i t was a l -

t o g e t h e r o u t l a n d i s h , f o r t h e v i o l a t i o n , a n d I t u r n e d my

h e a d t o t h e P o s t a l I n s p e c t o r he was i n o n t h e c a s e t o o ,

maybe I w h i s p e r e d a w o r d o r s o m e t h i n g b u t anyway t h e c a s e

t h a t was i t and we w e n t o u t and j u s t g o t o u t t h e d o o r a n d

t h e j u d g e y e l l e d f r o m t h e f r o n t , "Young man, y o u n g man",

d i d y o u h a v e a n y t h i n g t o s a y a b o u t s e n t e n c e I j u s t

i m p o s e d ?

L o f s v o l d : Oh, no.

S c h o o n o v e r : I f e l t l i k e s a y i n g , I s u r e a s h e l l d i d y o u r

h o n o r . Anyway, f i n a l l y h e s a i d , " S k i p i t " , a n d I w e n t o n

o u t . He was a.. . you c o u l d n ' t a g r e e w i t h t h e Judge . You

w o u l d s c h e d u l e t h e c a s e s , he w o u l d c a l l y o u i n f o r a p r e -

s e n t e n c i n g d i s c u s s i o n . B e f o r e h e w e n t i n t o c o u r t t h a t

m o r n i n g he w o u l d know w h a t h i s s e n t e n c e was g o i n g t o be, h e

w o u l d h a v e e v e r . y t h i n g l i n e d u p a n d i t w e n t o f f l i k e c l o c k -

w o r k . Why, t h a t w a s n ' t f a i r . J u s t r a n t h e m r i g h t o f f a n d

t h a t was i t . You h a v e t o l i s t e n t o a l i t t l e t e s t i m o n y ,

e x t e n u a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e s , e t c . .

L o f s v o l d : Yes.

S c h o o n o v e r : I t d i d n ' t make any d i f f e r e n c e t o h i m , boom, h e

g o t t h r o u g h h i s c a s e s i n a h u r r y a n d h e w o u l d go p l a y g o l f

o r s o m e t h i n g i n t h e a f t e r n o o n s .

A n o t h e r J u d g e i s J u d g e G o d d a r d i n New Y o r k . We h a d

t w o f i l t h c a s e s . One a g a i n s t t h i s b i g c a n d y f i r m , w h a t was

t h e name o f i t , i n New Y o r k ? T h e y s i n c e b u i l t a h u g e

p l a n t , t h e y w e r e n e a r o u r o f f i c e on V a r i c k S t r e e t . . .

W i l l i a m s was t h e I n s p e c t o r and h e f o u n d m i c e i n t h e s e c o n d

o r t h i r d f l o o r a n d t h e y w e r e v e r y h o n e s t i n t h a t ...t h e y

were h o n e s t . They a sked f o r t h e government p h o t o g r a p h s ,

t h e y a l l o w e d them t o t a k e p i c t u r e s and the.y e n l a r g e d t h e n

and t h e y p u t them i n t h e d i f f e r e n t d e p a r t m e n t s w i t h some

such e x p r e s s i o n , n e v e r l e t t h i s happen a g a i n . I t was an

example t o t h e i r employees . About t h a t t i ~ n e , t o o , t h e r e

was a S i l v e r s t e i n i n t h e Bronx, a d i s t r i b u t o r of c a n d y ,

s m a l l l o t s . He was o n l y a p e a n u t compared w i t h t h i s b i g

candy f i r m who d e a l t i n m i l l i o n s and s h i p p e d a round t h e

wor ld . He had g o t t e n h o l d of some p h e n o l p h t h a l e i n l a x a -

t i v e gum, and he p u t some new wrappe r s o n and s o l d i t f o r

r e g u l a r gum. Wel l , t h e r e were c o m p l a i n t s f rom p a r e n t s i n

C o n n e c t i c u t . . .

I n c o n n e c t i o n w i t h t h a t , he had candy m a n u f a c t u r e d i n

l i k e a g a r a g e i n t h e back of h i s p l a c e , and t h e r e was some

f i l t h found . Wel l , he was b r o u g h t i n t o c o u r t f o r s e n -

t e n c i n g t h e same day a s . . . [ d o n ' t know why I c a n ' t remem-

b e r t h e name of t h a t b i g candy f i r m . . . He was f i n e d

$ 1 , 0 0 0 , t h e s m a l l one. The l a r g e m a n u f a c t u r e r . t h e j u d g e

w a i t e d u n t i l t h e t h i r d c a l l , t h e r e p o r t e r s had l e f t t o go

back t o t h e i r p a p e r s , e t c . and t h e n when he came u p , " T h i s

i s t h e f i r m on Hudson S t r e e t ? " "Oh, y e s . " A $50.00 f i n e

and t h a t was i t . We l l , t h e y were j u s t a s bad a s t h e o t h e r

guy. I t shows t h e d i f f e r e n c e between one w i t h . . .

L o f s v o l d : Yes.

Schoonove r : Ano the r c a s e t h a t I had t o do w i t h , was t h e

u se of benzene h e x a c h l o r i d e t o c o n t r o l w i r e worms i n

p o t a t o p r o d u c t i o n i n Monrnouth C o u n t y . T h e r e w e r e s e v e r a l

p h a s e s . The b e n z e n e hex , i m p a r t e d a v e r y m u s t y o d o r , o r

r a t h e r t a s t e t o p o t a t o e s . They h a d a m i n i r i o t i n Rahway

P r i s o n , o n e t i m e , t h e p r i s o n e r s s a i d t h e p o t a t o e s a r e r o t -

t e n and s t a r t e d t h r o w i n g t h e m a r o u n d t h e t a b l e , e t c . a n d I

was s e n t down t o i n v e s t i g a t e .

T h e n t h e r e r a s a c a r l o a d s h i p p e d f r o m F r e e h o l d t o

A t l a n t a , a n d i t was s e i z e d down t h e r e . I h a d t o go down t o

t e s t i f y . So, I t e s t i f i e d a t t h e t r i a l . I g o t h a l f way

t h r o u g h t h e t e s t i m o n y a b o u t c h e c k i n g o n t h e p l a c e , and sam-

p l e s o f t h e d i r t : u n d e r n e a t h t h e p o t a t o i n t h e f i e l d t h a t I

h a d c o l l e c t e d a n d t h e c r o p i t s e l f f o r a n a l y s i s i n t h e New

Y o r k l a b o r a t o r y ' and i t was a s e i z u r e c o n t e s t . The j u d g e

a s k e d . "What h a p p e n e d t o t h e p o t a t o e s ? " W e l l , I s t o p p e d my

t e s t i m o n y a n d t h ~ e U.S. A t t o r n e y s a i d , " W e l l , t h e y h a v e

s i n c e s p o i l e d a n d w e r e t h r o w n o u t " . The j u d g e s a i d " w h a t

a r e we a r g u i n g a b o u t , i t i s a m o o t q u e s t i o n . " T h e c a s e was

d i s m i s s e d . H e r e I h a d made a t r i p a l l t h e way down h e r e t o

t e s t i f y .

L o f s v o l d : T h a t was i n t h a t p e r i o d when t h e new o r g a n i c

p e s t i c i d e s w e r e c o m i n g o u t one a f t e r t h e o t h e r , r i g h t a f t e r

W o r l d War 11. Some o f t h e s e w e r e u s e d and n o b o d y knew w h a t

was g o i n g t o h a p p e n when y o u u s e d them.

S c h o o n o v e r : To c a r r y t h a t s t o r y f u r t h e r . A b o a t l o a d o f

c o f f e e s u n k i n New Y o r k h a r b o r . I t was t a k e n o u t a n d s e n t

down t o M i l h u r s t W i l l i n g , West F r e e h o l d , t h e y h a d a b i g

c o m m e r c i a l d r y i n g o p e r a t i o n i n c o n n e c t i o n w i t h a l u m b e r

y a r d o p e r a t i o n . T h e y d r i e d , s o many h u n d r e d b a g s o f c o f f e e

t h e r e , a n d F D A t e s t e d i t a f t e r w a r d s a n d f o u n d i t was s t i11

u n f i t b e c a u s e t h e r e was n o c o f f e e t a s t e l e f t i n i t a f t e r

s o a k i n g i n s a l t w a t e r . So, t h e r e s u l t was t o g e t i t u n d e r

s e i z u r e , i t h a d t o b e g o t t e n r i d o f and we w e r e t o s u p e r -

v i s e t h e d i s t r u c t i o n o f i t . How t o a r r a n g e f o r i t . W e l l , I

c a l l e d t h e . . . n o l o c a l g a r b a g e dump w o u l d t a k e i t . So, I

c a l l e d t h e S t a t e D e p a r t m e n t o f H e a l t h and t h e y c o u l d n ' t

come up w i t h a n y name t h a t w o u l d t a k e i t . So, f i n a l l y I

t h o u g h t o f t h i s same man, t h e f a r m e r t h a t we h a d s e i z e d t h e

c a r l o a d o f p o t a t o e s on, h e k e p t b e e f c a t t e i n p a r t t o

f u r n i s h f e r t i l i z e r f o r h i s p o t a t o f i e l d s , e t c . a n d he was a

r e d h e a d w i t h a b i g t e m p e r , r e d h e a d e d . We 1, t h e r e was

n o t h i n g t o l o s e , h e c o u l d u s e i t f o r f e r t l i z e r . So, I

w e n t o v e r , a n d h e l o o k e d me o v e r f i r s t , "You h a d t h e n e r v e

t o come b a c k h e r e ? " So a f t e r we t a l k e d f o r a w h i l e , h e

s a i d , "Yes , b r i n g i t o v e r , I'llm i x i t w i t h t h e m a n u r e " .

I t t u r n e d o u t we d r a g g e d 2 7 t r u c k l o a d s o f c o f f e e o u t

t h e r e .

L o f s v o l d : Oh, no.

S c h o o n o v e r : So, h e g o t good u s e o f i t f o l * f e r t i l i z e r .

L o f s v o l d : P a i d h i m b a c k f o r h i s p o t a t o e s .

S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t .

One t i n e i n B o s t o n , f o l l o w i n g a f r e e z e i n F l o r i d a , a

13ad of o r a n g e s u p t h e r e i n t h e marke t . Ye were c h e c k i n g ,

and you would c u t them i n h a l f and t h e n u s e an i n d e l i b l e

p e n c i l t o check t h e d r y a r e a s and i f i t i s o v e r a c e r t a i n

p e r c e n t a g e , why i t would be a s e i z u r e .

L o f s v o l d : I f i t f r e e z e s , t h o s e o r a n g e s t h a t a r e f r o z e n

have no j u i c e i n them?

Schoonover : Tha t i s r i g h t , t h e y a r e d r y . I was g o i n g

a round w i t h J a w Lenahan , f rom t h e Bos ton Depa r tmen t of

H e a l t h . We h i t one l o t t h a t was j u s t b o r d e r l i n e . I s a i d

t o J a c k , "We c a n ' t t a k e a c h a n c e on t h i s b e c a u s e i t would

be u n f a i r " . J a c k s a i d , " I d o n ' t know a b o u t y o u , b u t I

w i l l , l e t ' s d e s t r o y t h e e v i d e n c e . " He c a l l e d t h e c i t y dump

t r u c k and took t h e whole l o a d o u t , t h r e w i t on a scow,

and went o u t t o s e a and t h a t was t h e end o f i t . He s a i d ,

"Now l e t them howl."

L o f s v o l d : He d i d n ' t have t o worry a b o u t g o i n g t o t r i a 1 .

Schoonove r : We can t a l k a b o u t a l l t h e f l o o d work up t h e r e

t h a t I worked on. A f l o o d i n t h e New England s t a t e s , I ' v e

g o t a b o o k l e t showing a l l of i t e m s i n t h e C e n t r a l a r e a s , a

t r o l l e y c a r u n d e r w a t e r and. . .

L o f s v o l d : You know, I remember w h i l e I was h e r e a t New

York we had t w o h u r r i c a n e s i n C o n n e c t i c u t , j u s t a b o u t a

week a p a r t . I remember t h a t you were u p t h e r e on t h a t . I

t h i n k you and some o t h e r s t ook a c rew of i n s p e c t o r s u p

t h e r e , a n d w h i l e y o u w e r e t h e r e t h e s e c o n d one came

t h r o u g h .

S c h o o n o v e r : P r o v i d e n c e , t h a t was a b i g one.

L o f s v o l d : Yes.

S c h o o n o v e r : T h e y p u l l e d u s b a c k t o W o o n s o c k e t a n d we s a t

t h e r e . They h a d j u s t f i n i s h e d p u t t i n g a w indow i n t h e

s t o r e a c r o s s t h e s t r e e t . We w e r e p e e k i n g o u t t h e w indow,

w i t h t h e w i n d h o w l i n g t h e r e , a n d o u t comes t h e o r a n g e s a n d

e v e r y t h i n g a g a i n , r o l l i n g o u t i n t h e s t r e e t .

L o f s v o l d : F o r t h e s e c o n d t i m e .

S c h o o n o v e r : F r o m one S a t u r d a y t o t h e n e x t .

L o f s v o l d : I t h i n k y o u came t o some t o w n w h e r e t h e y w e r e

h a v i n g an a w f u l f l y p r o b l e m ?

S c h o o n o v e r : W e b s t e r . U e b s t e r , M a s s a c h u s e t t s . Oh, y o u r

memory s e r v e s y o u w e l l , d o e s n ' t i t .

L o f s v o l d : Yes.

S c h o o n o v e r : Yes, t h a t was v e r y i n t e r e s t i ~ i g t h e r e . I n

o t h e r w o r d s y o u w e n t i n t o t o w n t o c h e c k a n d s o r t o f h e l p

s u p e r v i s e a n d some o f t h e a r e a s , l i k e t h e gas s t a t i o n , w e l l

y o u h a d some p i p e s s t i c k i n g u p o u t o f t h e g r o u n d , t h a t ' s

a l l . They w e r e d u m p i n g t h e s t u f f f r o m t h e s t o r e s , t h e

f o o d , e t c . i n t h e o p e n f i e l d s a t one e n d o f t o w n . P resum-

a b l y h a d somebody t o d o u b l e c h e c k on i t , b u t p e o p l e were

c o m i n g f r o m a n o t h e r a r e a and s t e a l i n g t h e c a n n e d g o o d s

r i g h t and l e f t t h a t h a d b e e n dumped i n t h e f i e l d . So, we

h a d a m e e t i n g e v e r y n i g h t o f t h e t o r n f a t h e r s , t o g o o v e r

w h a t h a d b e e n clone. You know y o u c a l l a t t e n t i o n t o t h e s e

t h i n g s ... B u t t h e b i g p r o b l e m , as y o u m e n t i o n e d was f l i e s . Boy,

y o u h a d t o f i g h t y o u r ,day i n t o t h e r e s t a u r a n t s w i t h t h e

f l i e s a l l t h e way a r o u n d y o u . T h a t i s when I a s k e d t h e m i f

t h e r e w a s n ' t a f r u i t g r o w e r w i t h a h i g h p r e s s u r e r i g , a n d

s o f o r t h . So t h e y g o t some m a l a t h i o n a n d w e n t o u t i n t h e

m i d d l e o f n i g h t , a f t e r m i d n i g h t , a n d s p r a y e d a n d i t r e a l l y

c o n t r o l l e d them.

L o f s v o l d : S p r a y e d t h e w h o l e t o w n .

S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , e s p e c i a l l y i n t h e a r e a s w h e r e t h e r i v e r

was and t h e w a t e r came t h r o u g h .

L o f s v o l d : Yes. I t h i n k t h a t was t h e same f l o o d w o r k when

B i l l Conway was v i t h y o u and h e c o n t r a c t e d p o l i o a n d was

o f f w o r k f o r s e v e r a l m o n t h s , a s a r e s u l t . I t h i n k h e made

a v e r y g o o d r e c o ' v e r y a n d he i s s t i l l w o r k i n g i n

P h i l a d e l p h i a .

S c h o o n o v e r : P a r t o f t h a t same f l o o d w o r k I was a s s i g n e d t o

i n t h e s o u t h e n d o f P r o v i d e n c e . T h e r e was a h u g e w a r e -

h o u s e , a n d i t e m s t h a t w e r e i n u n d a t e d w i t h f l o o d w a t e r s ,

f o o d p r o d u c t s , e t c . i n t h e w a r e h o u s e . T h e s e w e r e t a k e n

c a r e o f f o r d e s t r u c t i o n , i n p a r t , t h e y d u g a . . . b u l l d o z e r s

y o u c o u l d a l m o s t b u r y a h o u s e i n t h e h o l e t h a t t h e y d u g

t h e r e . T h o s e i t e m s w e r e t a k e n c a r e o f .

I remember one b i g l o t f o r t h e A a n d P , c a r l o a d s o f

j e l l i e s a n d ' jams, s e a l e d y o u know. W e l l , t h e s i l t g e t s u p

u n d e r n e a t h t h a t c a p and t h e r e i s n o t much y o u c a n do, e v e n

i f y o u c l e a n and s t e r i l i z e i t . So, L e o L u s b y who h a d r e -

t i r e d a s C h i e f I n s p e c t o r a t New Y o r k D i s t r i c t , was t h e n

w o r k i n g f o r U n d e r w r i t e r s I n s u r a n c e Co. and t h e g r o u p was

o f f t o t h e s i d e , I c o u l d see t h e m t a l k i n g , w e l l I was

w o r k i n g i n a n o t h e r s e c t i o n a n d f i n a l l y L e o came o v e r s a i d

t o me, "We c o u l d s a n i t i z e t h e s e a n d u s e t h e m a g a i n i n t h e

s t o r e s " , a n d I l o o k e d a t h i m and s a i d , " L e o , t h a t i s n o t

t h e way t h a t y o u t a u g h t me". He t u r n e d a r o u n d a n d w e n t

r i g h t b a c k .

T h o s e l i t t l e t h i n g s y o u j u s t n e v e r f o r g e t .

L o f s v o l d : 1 ' 1 1 j u s t c l o s e i t o f f , S t u , b y s a y i n g t h a n k y o u

v e r y much f o r t a k i n g t h e t i m e t o r e c o r d w i t h me t o d a y .

These a n c e d o t e s t h a t y o u h a v e b r o u g h t u p w i l l c e r t a i n l y be

h a n d y m a t e r i a l f o r w h o e v e r w a n t s t o r e a d a b o u t t h e e a r l y

d a y s o f t h e Food a n d D r u g A d m i n i s t r a t i o n . Thank y o u v e r y

much.

The folloring t~trrillaaoeuperi?.tiaumwill be carried along with routine assigmaants for tbe ae%t f w moatb:

Coatimd ~ m ) rtbraogSl I W a n olim o i l dirtriato. Xnrpsotion at' a p p m x i w t e ~ ten d l insecrticide wnufaotu~.-

err, alro rtdCs to vctrious qsenhowes $0 report stools of inswtioibrcr on cwreillaaae badr.

C M 69 apploa in stor* st NwabRnta Cold Btoro.ge Befriger-atis@ Coqany.