Earl [patha] Hines being a big thing in Chicago, coming on...

Don Albert Also Presents Richard B» AlienReel I, Side 2 Hazel GuerringerJanuary 1, 1974 Dominique (Mrso

Don Albert)Digest; Mary Louise SpencerChecks Richard B» AlienType; Paul W. Smith

[Continuing a story from side one of this cassette/] about

Earl ["patha"] Hines being a "big thing" in Chicago, coming on with

"Deep Forest," [i.eo/ his themeJ. George Foster would be playing

the piano with no strings, Another guy would blow without a horn

like [Louis] Armstrong; another pounding out fhe basss "boom, boom/

boom." DA laughs and says that they would play the whole tune of

"Deep Forest" "with no music coming out at all" [of the instruments].,

GF would cock his head to one side and say, "Y'all hear it?" And

somebody would say/ "yes, 'Fatha/' we hear it. Keep going, man."

DA was amused at these jam sessions that he happened upon; lie would

die laughing" at the musicians imagining that they were playing

"Deep Forests"

12:14 RBA questions DA about his band members going to wakes. Old

Jimmy Johnson/ DA says, liked to "hit the bottle" after a job.

While playing in Pensacola, DA was told by the backer or somelxidy

else that a fellow had died, telling them to be sure to go to the

wake. DA says, "the happenings was gonna 'be there," They all went

over to pay respect to the dead man and enjoyed the booze" DA

chuckles at memory of Jimmy Jot-insbn drinking the booze as fast as

he could at a wake of a man they did not knowo Lloyd Glenn was the

only one of DA's band that didn't drink/ then or ever,

t

Don Albert

Reel I/ side 2Jan- I/ 1974

1:00 DA agrees with RBA that Billy Douglas and Dink Taylor, members

of his band, turned their dirty shirts inside out and wore them.jT

(Laughter) . ''Now/ those two, they were characters, " DA comments.

DA's wife told RBA that.

1:10 RBA asked DA correct spelling of Judge Saunders* name» DA

spells it SAUNDERSo [Cf. Interview with DA, Reel II, Side 1,

Dec, 30, 1974.1 DA does not know Judge Saunders' first name.

1:15 DA and his band played at Sto Petersburg, Florida/ on a pier.

They featured "The 3'hiek of Araby." [cf. another DA interview on

this 1-iappening in Pensacolao] They were cut off the air there for

singing "With No Pants On," [See DA's recording of this piece,, j

DA says it shows you how times have changedo The radio station said

then that piece was too suggestive. Funny things like that happened

in those days"

Col:31 DJ& did not play at the San Carlos Hotel in Pensacolao DA

remembers playing at a Pensacola dancehall where the lights came

up fhrougli a-.glass floor.

1;39 [RESTRICT UNTIL 2024 A.Do: Chauncey Hyland [The correct

spelling of Hyland is in another interview.] was a good salesman,

"one of the bests" DA saysc, He could sell a band for five or six

nights in a row and book them in two or three towns at the same time.

Al Travis was good too. RBA and DA agree that both Chauncey Hyland

and Al Travis could have made honest money booking the DA band

Don AlbertReel I/ Side 2January I/ 1974

instead of toeing so crooked. Travis was getting good prices for

the band and could have been very successful had he had the fore-

sight to see the opportunity. He could have booked them from

Florida back to New Yorko He was "crooked and no goodo" He didn't

steal large sums of money; he got them good prices. END RESTRICTION.,]

1:59 RBA and DA discuss., toaseballa RBA tells DA of Mooney Martin/

who played baseball before DA's time, and MM's friend Tom Albert.

MM told RBA of different baseball teams, Algiers teams and country

teams* DA says New Orleans was a big baseball town, remembering T^ow

he as a kid scrambled with the other kids for foul balls outside the

Crescent Star Park, occasionally getting one and going into the

ballpark free., DA isn't sure of the exact location of the Crescent

Star Park, except that it was "bacH o* town-"

2;18 The Black Pelicans, DA says, were named in contrast with the

*

White Pelicans., DA did see the Black Pelicans play when he was

possibly 8-10 years old; he never played with them, Rouzan was one

of the catchers for the Black Pelicans- DA remembers that Satchel

Paige was in New Orleans playing many times.. The Chicago Giants used

to take players from New Orleans, such as Jumbo Jackson [sp?l, a

great third baseman. "High Pockets" was a first baseman with the

[Bacharach?] Giants. This team played in New Orleans. The Memphis

Black Sox played in New Orleans, as did the other teams on the Negro

circuit, NewOrleans had a trememdous team. They had a left-handed

fielder named Welch [sp?].

Don Albert

Reel I, Side 2January I/ 1974

2;52 RBA mentions Shoeless Joe Jackson who played with the white

Pelicans and the [Chicago] White Sox in 1919 when they "had all

that trouble [ioCo, the Black Sox scandal. See Willie Eo-and Willxe6.

J, Humphrey interview.,]. There wer^lot of teams and a lot of great

ball players then, DA commentso Josh Gibson and Satchel paige were

among those great ball players DA remembers a Most of them went to

the Giants, DA says. (Phone ringSo)

3:05 DA didn't know the teams the Famous Brooks or the Cohens. DA

only knew the white and Negro Pelican teams and the visiting ball clubSo

3:16 RBA asks DA about raquetteo DA has heard of the game which

he pronounces racket/ but he has never seen it,,

Co3sl9 DA caught with a few semi-pro teams and declares he was not

a great catcher,. While traveling with his band in West Texas, Ohio/

and Texas [sic], DA would make an appearance in a ball park and

catch for sometimes five or six innings, giving signals to the pitchero

He was not a regular player? he'd just be in town to play at a dance,

Publicity went on before, touting DA as the great catcher from the

great DA band. DA 1-iad agreed to this publicity to help out the

teams attendance. All of this was a lot of fun and kept DA activeo

DA had naturally more energy then, toeing youngero DA says, "Thank

God I'm very active now." He never feels sick.

3:38 DA's band got together a team of its members for tl-ieir own

pleasures None of the band played ball with teams in other cities

Don Albert

Reel I, Side 2January 1, 1974

as DA dide DA always liked to meet everybodyo Over a period of

years t~h±s meeting people has helped DA a loto While traveling/ DA

finds people he knew. DA still travels a lot now e.,gc. to California,*

New Orleans, Chicago/ and New York. DA tlninks he will play a concert

in Wisconsin sometime in July if it doesn't clash with plans of

playing music in foreign countries*. He'll probably run across people

he knew from loaseball or dances after the games» This 'broadening

of friendships "has pleased DA and been a satisfaction to him.

4:02 Then most musicians had some sort of athletic activities. Some

musicians played baseball or tenniSo Merle Turner, the singer,"swam

like a fish" and played tennis, RBA thinks of musicians as being

fishermen and baseball players. RBA remembers that Harry James had 3

baseball team and that Muggsy Spanier playedg DA hasn't been in

contact with [Count} Basie too much since they separated in the early

yearSo Tlierefore, DA doesn't know if CB went in to sportSo RBA

asks whether Archie Moore [the boxerj played trumpet. [Boxer^ Sugar

Ray [Robinson] became a dancer- DA says it's natural that musicians* *

would turn to other hobbies, benefiting in mind and body, DA's

own participation in baseball has benefited him greatly,, You had to

get away from "one set thing;" music "would run you crazy," RBA

and DA discuss participation in sports, GoCfo, the democracy and

the relaxafciorio

4:45 Alvin "Fats" Walls, a great saxophone player from Oklahoma

City, died recently in Detroit, DA had met Alvin Walls in Detroit

*

Don Albert


when DA was on a visit to his former arranger/ Jay Golson. DA also

met Ziggy Jahnson, a great director of floor shows and producer in

Detroito DA thought that Ziggy Johnson was an even better producer

ttian Lsrry Steele [sp?]» DA worked with both Ziggy and Larry Steele.

Ziggy produced shows while DA was working at the Plantation Clubo

Billy Eckstine had come out of Washington/ Pennsylvania ^nd ?]

and was singing wit}! DA's band then around thereo Billy Eckstine

in those days was singing only "semi ballads: and jump numbers, JLo G A /

"I Got Rhythmo" BE hadn't concentrated on his style that he has now

or the type of songs he sings now. DA spells "ZIGGY II

5s03 Alvin Wall's tone, reading^ writing, and execution were greato

DA says tht he was a good band leader. Alvin Wall's band was the

samesize as DA's* The bands, in those days, were equal in sizes

14-16 pieces.

5s09 DA recalls/ with uncertainty at first. Father Al Lewis/ banjo

and guitar player from New Orleanso DA says of FAL, "if he's still

living, he has a good age" [i.eo, is old]o FAL, RBA says/ is still

playing music/ staying up all night and enjoying life; DA 1.S going

to do that as long as he can alsoo

5s 18 The Gaines Brothers were a group of tumblers originally from

Louisiana,, DA is not sure if theywere from Algiers New Orleans

[i.e», the part of New Orleans on the Eastern sxde of the riverj

or someplace else. One of the Gaines Brothers married an aunt of

DA"s, the widow of [Edwin?] Guerringer, The Gaines Brothers were

Don Albertc


.3

at that time emp^yed by Silas Green to perform in Ttis tent show.

They were about five of the brothers who did tumbling acts os

5:27 Lee Hillyard was ori9inally from here [i^eo/ San Antonio],.

DA says he "was one of the finest trumpet and alto players I have

ever heardo" LH took to the bottle and got so he could not blow any

-more. DA "had sent "him to Lucky Millender1s band to play altOo

LH died the day after getting out of the sanitarium, LH worked with

Troy [Floyd] and with McNeil [sp?lo McNeil's band was a Texas bandotf

DA says Lee Hillyard "was truly a great,.great music iario<

RBA wantsIt

to check if LH recorded. LH did play vitl-i [AlpT-ionse] Trent. RBA

hopes that someday DA and he can sit down and listen to records I DA

csn recognize LH or any other musician he knew on record,,

5:45 Wingy Manone hung around San Antonio a loto Wingy used to go

into the place [i,e,/ George Foster's repair shop? Cf« other DA

interviews] at Crockett and Navarroo George Poster worked on 'his

horn as well as Louis Armstrong's.. Any other major musician who

had "a dent" or who had a stuck valve or stuck mouth piece would

get hj-s liorn repaired by George Foster. DA mentions Eddie Heywood,

Jro/ playing piano in SA. DA knew Eddie Hayworth, Sr.,, in Atlanta,

Georgia/ playing in the [theater] pits [for a number?] of TOBA shows,.

RBA mentions Wingy [Manone^ writing "San Antonio Shouts." RBA says

that Wingy is still living and has played recently in New Orleans.

Joe Mares gets fhese musicians bacT< into New Orleans [for New.*

Don Albert

Reel I, Side 2January 1, 1974Pa9e 8

Orleans Jazz Club concerts!. Wingy complained of his Iip bothering

himo RBA says that not everyone practices as hard as DA does" DA

explains that he has to practice perhaps one-half to one hour each"\

day to keep up his embouchure in order to blow his horn. DA had

given up his horn a while back so this constant practice became

necessary to keep up his embouchere in order to be able to blow note s/

even those in the staff. DA has that vision"that one day he is goingto play concertso DAsays it has come to that now. .if he hadn't

been practicing, he would not have "had his lip in shape to play with

the [San Antonio] Symphony.. DA's friend/ Maury Maverick, had be en

helpfulo DA explains that he knew and had done some favors for

MM's father, former mayor of SA. Maury Maverick helped DA [with?]

6:17 the Symphony Director/ Victor Allesandro [sp?].

DA tells RBA that/ in addition to the Winter Garden in Kansas

City, there were Winter Gardens in different towns all over the country

where there was a dancehall. "There was no violation of any laWo"

6:22 "Lazy Daddy" [i.e^ Henry Fillmore] had a band in Galvesfcon

[Texas], DA can't recall the members of "Lazy Daddy's" band/ because

they played many miles from DA's[headquarters]/ but they did meet.

They did not play New Orleans style. One can not compare New Orleansa

and Texas bands in style. DA s^s that basically Lazy Daddy's band

could be compared to [Floyd] Troy's» There have been bands copying

bands all along the years. Every musician has copied some idol.

Likewise bands copied bands"

ff

Don Albert


^

6s 37 DA played once, years ago/ at the Riverside Gardens in SA/ where

the whole show was put on toy female impersonators. Today female

impersonators are commonplace in show biz. Many female impersonators^

were great singers and dancers, copying names of movie actresses.

6s43 Hazel G. Dominique, wife of Don Albert, says that DA had special

dances and brought big bands into the Keyhole [nightclub], e.g.,

Erskine Hawkina-and King Kolax. DA remarks that King Kolax was one of

the greatest trumpet players he had overheard, though he could not

sustain himself in the music world. DA had Billy Eckstine, Sarah

Vaughan^ The Ink Spots/ Illinois Jacquet, Duke Ellington, and Louie

Armstrong. LA» being a close friend, would stop by the Keyhole

anytime he was in SA as did Duke Ellington. These men would come in

and "sit in" with the little bands there as guest artists; they did

not bring their own bands. DA had a large enough stage for bands

and acts afc the same time.

6:59 Anna Mae Wintourn [sp?] was a girl band leader. Ann Wellburn

[sp?] was a singer DA 'brought to SA from Los Angeles with Elain Dixon&

[sp?]. They were a team at the Cotton Club [i.e./ in Los Angles no

doubt], DA trained Ann Wellburn, a talented singer, teaching her how

to walk on and off the stage and to take "her bows. After her engage-

ment, she went to Fort Worth. AW later wrote a book in which she

made comments- -

END OF REEL I, SIDE 2

1

Interview with Don Albert also present? Richard B.Dec. 30, 1973 Alien, Hazel G. DominiqueReel I, side 1 -- Digest (Mrs. Don Albert)

notes: Richard B. Alien

digest: Ralph AdaqOCheck: Richard B. Alle n

RBA and DA fcalk about the microphone and the cassette recorder

[which was loaned byj Melvin Moore.

RBA asks DA's address, where the interview is being conducted,,

It's 715 St. James, San Antonio, Texas.. RBA notes that Mrs. DA

will also be in the interview,

0061 RBA asks for a clarification of fhe neighborhoods of Sanf;

AntoniOs DA lives on the Southeast side. "It's a mixed area,

it's middle-class different ethnic groupSo.. it's just one. 0 *

big family in this area."

0080 RBA asks about the Wests ide. DA says it almost is all

Mexican. He goes on to call the Northside a "secluded areao"

It too has been integrated toy "prominent Negro families/" but

at one time it was strictly a white neighborhood.

0101 DA points out that his was the first Negro family to live

on his street in the Southeast side Now/ most of the white

families are gone from DA's streets

0110 RBA wants to know about the Southwest side. It's mostly

Mexican,, The Northwest is white mainly, but has changed through

the yearso DA says that due to the military''presence in San

Antonio, it is mandatory that there be no racial discrimination.

0135 RBA asks DA about a street they drove on which DA hadlike

said was once the old Rampart Street [in New Orleans^. It isA

East Commerce Street, DA says. It was similar to other "Negrostreets" [i.e., "main streets"} in ott-ier cities: New Orleans had

f-<

Interview with Don Albert 2pageDec. 30, 1973Reel I, side 1

Rampart/ Los Angeles had Central [Avenue!, New York had Lennox

[Avenue] among others.

0152 RBA asks if the street had any night clubs where his band

would have played. DA says/ "No, it was strictly small -- cafe s...

barbershops, drugstores, all small businesseSo" East Commerce

was almost in the heart of San Antonio near the actual business

district

0165 RBA mentions seeing the Plaza Hotel. DA says it was the

tallest building in Texas when it was built and that it' s

changed hands and names three or four times. He doesn't know

what the name of it is now,

0182 DA played at the Plaza with Troy Floyd on the roof and

in the ballroom. DA says that even thougln TF's was theII

greatest band in the state of Texas, all gentlemen,, We would

have to go round to the back dooroo." where they used. the

freight elevator.

0199 RBA asks who besides TF's band played there., DA mentions

the Casa Loma Band, "that had about twenty-five or thirty

units and just headed by one mario" [cf. other sources. RBA/

Aug. 5, 1975] Jimmie Joy played there, and Henry Busse;

"all of the major "bands followed Troy up there." There was» * *

only one band there at a time.

0217 Possibly the only hotel where TF didn't play in San Antonio

was the Gunter on Houston Street- Alphonso Trent did play

there.

Interview with Don Albert page 3Dec. 30, 1973Reel I, side 1

0229 TF's was the first band at Shadowland. DA's was the

second. DA's first engagement lasted eighteen months. DA's

band was the first Negro band from the South to broadcast/

"on national [radio] hookup." It broadcasted from fche Shadow-^

/ :'1

land every night at twelve o'clock, on Wft^E"» That was one of

the first,50/000 watt stations in the U.S./ DA thinkSo

0243 DA says he'd have two or three engagements on the road

each year. "TT'iey [ShadowlandJ couldn't get a band to replace

me, so they'd call me in ~- I would have to cancel out some

dates and come back." DA says that after this happened the

third time, he told ttie manager. Bill Cohen, that he wasn't

coming back anymore, "I wanted to go to New York, and I had

my eyes set on big things....I wanted to broaden my name I.

wanted to see what was in the other parts of the country,

other countries,."

0264 DA says that Bill Cohen had bought Shadowland from "the

IIfirst of five owners DA explains that five gamblers originally

opened the place. "It was a regular casino, same as you have

0278 out in Vegas . " The gamblers and bouncers dressed in tuxedos;

fifty to eighty thousand dollars changed hands every night *

theAnd the band had use of all facilities out there, including.\-

the restroomc, "They treated us just like kings We had no. . * <

quarrels with anyone."

0295 DA tells about a man who came to Stiadowland one night and


won about $75,000, But he stayed around the next night and Mr.

Barnett, "the kingpin of gamblers found the cheat that this. » .

*>guy was using. So Mr., Barnett won back not only the $75,000,

but also another $50,000 of the man's money. [DA imagines that

people got the money the same way that the fortunafce do today .

They are in a position to get it ?].

0320 DAsays that a man and his wife worked in the restaurant

there at Shadowland, and their salary was ten-dollars a week.

But, DA says, they made as high as a hundred dollars a night on

tips,,

0326 RBA asks DA about the Blue Willow. It was the first club

that TF played. It was a smaller club than Shadowland and was

a popular club on the Fredericksburg^Q^^ ^ ^g y^g only club

in San Antonio in those days. "After Shadowland, then small

clubs sprouted up/" but they were not as big as the Shadowland

or the Blue Willow, its no longer a nightclub; DA thinks it's

the Veterans of Foreign Wars Hall nowo

0346 Shadowland is now known as "The Roaring Twenties.," But they

still use the name "Shadowland" to tell people what place it is

and where it is. It's operated now by an ex-bandleader who, DA

says, is doing very well. The band there plays the numbers that

DA's band used to play during the "roaring twenties"o DA can't

recall the owner's name [Larry Herman^ though he knows him

"real personal,"

Interview with Don Albert 6pageDec. 30, 1973Reel I/ side 1*

0369 RBA brings up Walter Page. DA says there were two WPs. RBA

is refering to the Wp of the Blue Devils/ who played bass. Ther e was

also Oran Page- "Hot Lips" Page- who was not related to WP,

though they were both in the Blue Devils, [op played trumpet.]DAsays he worked a few dates with the Blue Devils around Dall as.

It was a stopover for them when they came out of Oklahoma.0385 DA also jammed with Count Bas^lie in Dallas when CB had

taken over the [Bennie] Moten band. RBA asks if CB knows Walter

Page, and DA says CB worked with WP in the same band. RBA asks*f

who the reeds were; DA doesn't remember. DA also doesn't

remember Reuben Roddy [a<s<,] who used to play with the Eureka

[Brass] Band [and with Walter pa^el'SBlue DevilSo] RBA ment t

ions

Buster Smith playing with the Blue DevilSo DA says t-hey pickedi

him up in Dallas, and they played in the band at the same time.,

0409 RBA asks about Lester Young, and DA says LY was "confined up to

Eastern bands after he left'-New Orleans: [cfp other sources]

DA says he doesn't remember if Buster [Smith] knew LYo Herschel

Evans knew LY because he worked with him^ HE and LY were two

extremely different personalities» HE was "sort of sophisticated;"

LY was "kind of boisterous." HE "almost demanded the audience to

look at him when he playedo"

0435 RBA asks who the other trumpet player was besides Lips Pageo

DA says it was Joe KeyeSo JK was mostly a section player, "and

Hot Lips did the work" [i»e<>, soloed] »

0448 RBA says they should call Hazel [MrSo DA] in? [TT-iey don * t»]


0451 RBA asks DA about fishing^ DA apologizes for not taking

RBA fishing as he had planned due to the gas shortageo DA has

loved to fish since he was a little boy. He would meet his.f

father down at Lakeponchartrain after lie finished his paper

route at two or three in the morningo Sometimes DA would

catch enough fish to sell some of themo He'd make a few nickles

to help out his parentSo "I never stopped working," DA saySo

"Just now, at my age I don't feel it however -, but I don't

0480 want to work anymore,," By this, DA doesn't mean he wants to

retire, but he doesn't want to do menial labor or anything that

he doesn't want to d0o DA has driven trucks, made springs and

0491 barrels, worked at the sugar refinery. When he went into civil

service the second time, after he'd "gone out of business," DA'

started at the lowest job fchey had and now he has risen to

government inspector. He could retire "tomorrow/" DA says, but

he likes his job» He gets to meet all sorts of people, foreigners

included. Often he talks to them about musiCo

0525 Chiefly/ DA's job is to see that the carriers, people who

move [government personnel] from place to place/ do their jobL

correcfclya He also assists the people who are moved in getting

squared away at their destinationoflfl fs *

.AE-ka.'n&ars0634 RBA asks if DA has a boat at Pass, DA has a twenty-

foot boat, a trailer home, and a large piece of Land there, The

boat has an outboard motor» DA .takes it into tl-ie Gulf of Mexico

which is seven miles from his home o DA is an expert boatsman.

Interview with Don Albert page 7

Dec. 30, 1973"Reel I, side 1

However, "after forty or fifty years on the water/" DA did fall

overboard onceo DA almost drowned; he was holding onto the

anchoro A preacher saved Iiinio "I could swim, but I was holdingt

onto the anchoro Didn't want to turn the anchor looseo Panic/

I guess," The anchor only cost nine dollars,,

0587 RBA asks DA about the symphony at the Autocrat [Cluto] o DA

says it was made up of local members and their friends, Entertain-

0596 ment for Ne9roes was limited; Sunday evenings were the gathering

0605 time for the symphonya Armand Piron*s brother, Milford, was

DA's teacher^ [Does he imply that MP was in this symphony?Milford Piron conducted this orchestra. DA in conversation with RBA, Dec. 6,1976 *

Compare other DA interviews and other sources^] DA was about

eight or nine/ and he would sing instead of playing an instrumento

One piece DA remembers singing is "The World Is Waiting For The

Sunriseo" They played all the popular music of the day, and also

some of [Armand J Piron's numbers. DA can remember Nelson Jean0618

playing, but can*t recall most of the players. He remembers a/

violin player, [Paul] Dominguez» Also, DA mentions Alex Lanouville I

"a tremendous saxophonist and clarinetist," AL gave Sidney Bechet

one of his clarinetSo It was one that nobody could play

because of its odd key,, But SB played it like his cwno "He

was a genius. SB never has a horrioII»

0649 RBA brings up the Tios. DA says the old man [papa Tio ]

was a professor. The Tios are related to DA through marriage^

T'hey're originally from Mexico,

0656 RBA asks when DA first entered civil service. DA came back

Interview with Don Albert page 8Dec. 30, 1973Reel I/ side 1

to San Antonio in 1940o Things were getting tight,, DA had been

0663 in the Eastern Uo S. "The booking agents had gotten next to me o"i.'.. )

DA names Al Travis, Rabinowitz, Chauncey Hylando DA says

he didn't want to go with [Joe] Glaser's office, "which might

have been a grave mistake," because JG wanted to hold DA's band

0670 out for top moneyo Then Ella Fitzgerald brought DA to Moe Gale.

DA didn't understand the percentage MG wantedo "But if i would

have sat down and figured this thing out, it" would have been

the greatest thing that could have happened."

0 681 REA says they need to call in DA's wife so she can help

with figuring out dateso Mrso DA says she can't help on dates,

0686 DA continues his answer about when he got into civil service,,

It had gotten hard for DA to manage his musicianso Some of

them were "using reefers [marijuana cigarettesl which I disagreed

with." Some were borrowing money [from DA ?] and not paying

it backo So DA went to San Antonio, packed, and left for New

Orleanso The "remnants of the band" were taken over by the

drummer/ Fats Martirio

0695 But DA didn't stay in New Orleans long,. When he got back

to San Antonio, he filed for civil service [employment] and was

hired as a foreman,, DA's been in Civil Service since 1941 with

two absences when lie went into the nightclub businesSo Altogether,

DA has around twenty-six years in Civil Serviceo

[End of Reel I, side 1]

Interview with Don Albert also presents RBAReel II, side 1 digest: Marie L. SpencerDec, 30, 1973 check: RBA

RBA says that they had been discussing how the Special Delivery*

.../'?/,: jobs at the post Office were going to the whites.t

fL-

0029 Don Albert discusses his job at the Post Office [New Orleans],

more in defcailo Having passed the examination, DA seems to think

that his supervisor believed him to be white. He was driving a

new car.

DAspeaks of a bad incident with the supervisor, Mr. Ducros[sp?]s

who spoke emphatically to him about his using the restroom nearby

his post, saying that it was "for whites only" and that his resfc-

room was around the corner, some distance away,, DA states that he's

hot-headed, replied to the supervisor that he would use that white

restroom if he needed it someday. This irritated the supervisor,

then the other whites realized DA was a NegrOo DA speaks of the

hiring of a young Korean vet, a Negro, Connelly,3t the post office

and his own unpleasant con-frontation with him over a parking in-

cident. DA almost hit Mr. Ducros.[sp?]. The worst incident oc-

cured some time later, when DA, still "stirred up" emotionally,

struck the Supervisor, a white man., on the head with a piece of

iron pipe, when he almost completed a remark to DA that he should

know his place, as Ducros is a white man and he's a nigger»II II

.

0241 Young Connelly, the other Negro in the office, offered to come to

DA's assistance with a switch blade, but DA told him to put away

the switch blade by reminding thafc he has to live in New Orleans.

Interview with Don Albert 2pageReel II, side 1Dec, 30, 1973

DA decides after that incident to go back to San Antonio, telling

his wife to pack, job or no job:

02G4 He returned to SA/ then began working with Fats Martin's band,

which was the remenants of DA's old bando FM was continually

irritable, being sick. DA realized this and stayed with FM awhile^

then went to work for Civil Service,. DA remembers that Heberfc

Hall was working in Civil Service too at that time and that later

he got Fats Martin a job with Civil Service, as the music business

was slow,,

0303 RBA asks DA for clarification of his Civil Service employ-

ment. DA quit in the late 40's and in 1943o [see belowj. in 1940

he opened up the Keyhole [Night Club in SA]o In 1948 DA went to

New Orleans, staying one year working for the Post Office [Civil

Service] o

0320 DA returned to SA in 1950, opening the new Keyhole [NightclubJ on

Poplar Street. RBA mentions Orin Blackstone, who [had a shop at]

439 Baronne St* in New Orleans. DA remembers him as the first man

to write an article about him in the magazine/ Playback. RBA remarks

that he just missed DA when RBA came to New Orleanso He learned

of DA thru Orin [or Oren] Blackstone. DA inquires about O.B. RBA

replies that OB is living in Slidell [Lao] now, retired, a former

newspapermane DA wants OB'S address/ RBA agrees to give it to him.

RBA says that he and OB went into the record businesss together,,

0372 DA recalls that the new Keyhole opened Easter Saturday in 1950,

Interview wit^ Don Albert page 3

Reel I'Lf side 1Dec. 30, 1973

fully integrated. It was the first fully integrated night club int

the South. DA relates that he was successful, taking all the

0396 business away from the other clubs. Finally, the white operators

of the other clubs organized and tried to get the place to close

down Tiis place. DA explains that the policy of the Keyhole was

that after 12 midnight/ no alcoholic beverages were served, fchus

obeying the state liquor laws. After midnight, most of the people

0418 stayed on to see the showso When the [city?] Administration changed,

DA says tlnat the "die-hards" wl-io didn't agree with his policy forced

the SA police to shut (^own his place., DA went to court and got

0435 an injunction against the Police Department,, He won the case, after

spending about $18,000 in court costs and business costs. DA proudly

states that he, by Judge Saunders' decision in his favor, integrated

the entire state of TexaSo DA says he feels sure that this decision

is in the University of Texas files.^

0460 RBA wonders if they could find the old local newspapers to

get the dates of various incidents in DA's life. DA says he has

some [newspapers or dates?]- DA says that would take some real re -

search, as white people tend to try to hide such a decision, integratin

nightclubs, as this was very painful to the white man.. RBA assures

him'that Judge Saundete ' decision is surely in the SA Court Records,

and DA agrees, that it could be found 'by lawyers. DA also mentions the

was responsible for integrating most of.the [military] bases [in

14 Texas?]. RBA asks dates of these events. 1952 was the Keyhole05

Interview with Don Albert page 4Reel,II, side 1Dec. 30, 1973

Case, 1952-53 were years DA walked in picket lines in SA pro-

testing segregation at Josky's, the largest store in Texas/ and

the Handy-Andy [Stores}. Recently, about 1962, a Federal invest-

igation took place at Randolph [Field]. DA relates that in 1941,

DA organized the first Goodwill Society for the Betterment of the

Negro at Kelly [Air Force Field?]. He tells,RBA how he, as a Civil

Service foreman and a musician, he met high-ranking officers. When

he played at the Officer's Club, he met officers who would invite

him to have a drink with them. Colonel Hicks, after hearing DA

tell of the social grievances against the Negro at the base, sug-

gested to DA that they organize. DA did this, but unfortunately

0577 Colonel Hicks was transferred, A Southern major replaced him and

very quickly undermined all the work DA had done. The matter was

then dropped. That was discouraging to DA, so he left the Civil

Service in 1944 to open a night club. This was the first tl heime1.

quit Civil Service. He has twenty-six years of service in all .

[See above]0619 RBA asks DA about his knowledge of Chauncey Hyland. DA calls

0628 him "the biggest crook you've ever seen". He recounts how Beansy

Fauria wanted to set up his son in the business and to learn the

business. Beansy Pauria invested about $5,000 in this effort, even

buying CH a new car. DA says that CH, getting as far as Austin,

Texas,looking for jobs for the Band, "messed up five or six dates".

This is the time, DA says, he reorganized his band, getting Lionel

Reason in the band. RBA tells DA that LR is now living in Baton

Interview with Don Albert 5pageReel II, side 1Dec, 30, 1973

Rouge [La.] and is a preacher. DA is surprised to hear this. DAsaxophonlst,

.^

had Tom Johnson, ^ in the band at the time and some of his old

musicians who wanted to come backo All this didn't last, because

of the financial mess caused by Chauncey Hylands' management'4*

of the bandu DA then decided to go back to booking his band him-

self.

0684 DA remembers that he played with Nat Towles, bass, when they

played together in a pit band in a New Orleans theatre, located

near the Flint-Goodrich Hospital on Louisiana Avenue. NT was a

0710 "big thing" in Omaha^ Nebraska and was remembered as having fhe

first big travelling van for his BiusicianSo When DA's band's bus

broke down, NT offered him his van to use. They were close friends.

DA fondly remembers that "Nat was a lovely persom.. a real

good bass player. He had a heart as big as a house.

DA says that NT had a great band. RBA agrees, saying he knew

a few musicians who played with him, e.g<> little Joe Bentley/ tp.

0736 RBA says that he's read that Sir Charles Thompson, p, played with

NT also. DA doesn't recall NT'S sidemen .» RBA asks if DA ever

listened to NT'S band. He replies: "Sure, in facfc we played next

0748 ^--to each other." DA says that it was back in the ' 30 ' s when 1-ie and

NT played at the San Jacinto Club in New Orleans. DA also played

^ against Clarence Williams' band.there. NT went to Dallas [Texas]

0768 atoout the same time DA left New Orleans and was "a big thing" in

DallaSo DA says at RBA's remark that he knew NT well, "Sure,I1\.

Interview with Don Albert 6pageReel II, side 1Dec. 30, 1973

came up with Nat Towles;"^

-.-''S0777 DA says that he's from "uptown" [New Orleans], in contrast'*.

^ V.^

from being from "downtown".

RBA questions DA on the Dallas State Pair. DA replies that

the Dallas State Fair "is the beginning of ray band.," He remembers

well his friend, Bernard Goldberg, encouraging him in organizing

a band, promising the band 'a job if he would gather the musicians,, DA ha

just quit Troy [Floyd] and returned to New Orleanso DA says that

at this time Bernard Gold^erg already had a job lined up for them

at the [Dallas] State Fairo So, DA hired the men, asking each what

he wanted in wageso He spoke to Louis "Little Bob" Barbarin about

playing drums for him, but Louis wanted $40 at firsfc, then came back

and asked for $80. DA decided to get another drummer and made a

0827 happy choice in hiring Fats Martin "'cause this guy turned out to

be, to me, one of the greatest drummers that I've ever heard." FM

had a fault though, DA relates, of increasing tempo sometimes. DA

remembers a bad incident when the band was playing for a s'how,

featuring the dancer "Pete" Nugent of "Pete", "Peaches", and "Duke"

from the Cotton Clube DAsays "Pete" Nugent was an excellent tap-drums,

dancer, who was very particular about his music. Pats/ v had a

tendency to follow "Pete" Nugent's time and would decrease and in-

crease tempo as "Pete" did, thus thoroughly irritating the dancer.,

DA says as far as 1-ie remembers that was Fat's only fault as a drummer.,

The tempo is the reason why the band was considered "America's

Interview with Don Albert page 7Reel II/ side 1Dec. 30. 1973

Greatest Swing Band.

.0864 RBA asks DA about his knowledge of drummers who didn't in-

crease [tempo]. DA replies that a lot of drummers do not increase,

ioG,,,Freddie Kohlmano FK played "identical drums" as FM, only.7< *

.t

his tempo was more "sustained". DA pays a "show drummer" has the

tendency to increase and decrease, getting so wrapped up in his

showmanship, he forgets the basic playing of the band., Other

drummers who never increased [tempo] or decreased were Jo Jones,

0883 Billy Payne [i.Co,Sonny Payne?], Sonny Greer, d, sometimes would

increase, working with bells with Duke [Ellington]. This was not

0896 noticeable to the average listener, only to a musician. RBA says

most drummers today do seem to increase tempo. DA agrees that

today's drummers really don't learn music and are classed as "fly

by-night drummers". Tlie drummers li^e Harry Bellson,[Louis Bellson?],did not

were finished musicians and do things like thato DA remarks

that in today's rock and roll, anything can happen;-< f

914 RBA asks DA about the Dallas State Fair again. It was held1

I/

V."

every Octotoero DA's band was organized in New Orleans and played

there sometime in October of 1929o When hired to play at Dallas

State Fair, the DA band had no rehearsal. They just drove from

New Orleans to Dallas, This Dallas State Fair engagement was the

band's only engagement that Bernard Goldberg arranged which financed

both the band and its uniforms. He, however, stayed with the band/

Interview wifch Don Albert page 8Reel II, side 1Dec. 30, 1973

<.-. .'Y .\

(0944) booking it. Shortly before the end of this job, 3 phone call

from Raleigh [sp?] Estes from San Antonio came through to DAo

Estes called DA at the Fair and hired DA and his band to play in

SA. It seems that Troy Floyd was on the job for Mr. Estes at the

Cliicken Plantation in SA and now Troy Floyd had given notice that

he was leaving for Oklahoma,, Happily DA took his place at the*-L

Chicken Plantation, At this time, DA was able to increase [theI

size] the band, rehearse and generally get the band in shape. RBA

' asks DA about the increasing of the size of the bando DA says he

met Hiram Harding in Dallas and added him to fhe band. DA states

that this made 2 trumpets and trombone thus giving the band its/I/

^ name "the Ten Pals" [i.e.^ three brass/ three reeds, and four rhyfhmo]-r^"

<^>v ,Jf

In SA, during the Chicken Plantation engagement, the band's personel

remained the same. When DA and the band went to Shadowland, he

added Philander Tiller. At the time DA had PT, Arthur Derbigny,.! 4(~ -:. "("

J^ /Louie CoAtrell and [Herbert] Hall [reeds]. DA says that was his/

/

^"firstbig sound".

Then DA added to the bando Geechee Robinson, trombone, and

Nick Turner, sousaphone and valve trombone. DA already had

Jimmie Johnson on the string basso At a later date, DA added Harold

.-'Holmes^ bass, who is now in Canada. Holmes did most of the arranging.

As they traveled, DA "added and subtracted."0 . .

A*"-_-

0999 RBA asks about DA's playing in other State Fairso DA did not,i

j-/'^ ^ ./^*^^-,

'but did play in cities where state fair were held,eog.jKansas City

Interview with Don Albert 9pageReel ll, side 1Dec. 30, 1973

at [Fairlane.?] Park and Waco, Texas.

1016 DA played;in Mexico with Troy Floyd's band, not with his own\

1

^f //

?ifH6rl^/ band* DA and his band did play on the Cnadian border once and\ on.^.

A

the Mexican border town of Rinosa. C C^,^ < ^ !^^ .JDA speaks of his highest ambititon of visiting some foreign

countries to see new things and to play his music before "it is

late". RBA adds that DA has been building a 9ood reputation in

foreign countries, particularly because of the fact that Orin

Blackstone's article's on him were circulated among foreign countries,

DA speaks of wanting to see new things, feeling sentimental. As

he has friends in Europe, DA would enjoy playing a concert in Europe.

^°1^ r^ t -1 ^ ^ . ^,, w^r /

Earl [patha] Hines being a big thing in Chicago, coming on...

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