Dr Tahir-ul-Qadri’s historic interview with ARY News

7/30/2019 Dr Tahir-ul-Qadris historic interview with ARY News

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Dr Tahir-ul-Qadris historic interview with ARY NewsSunday, 14 April 2013 PAT on FB

(Dr Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri appeared on

ARY News popular programme SawalYe Hi

anchored by Dr Danish. He threw light on the

current developments with reference to

scrutiny process and likely outcome of

electoral exercise. Given the importance of

interview, English translation of its abridged

version is reproduced here below for readers)

http://www.pat.com.pk/english/tid/22215/

Dr Danish

Economy is on the slippery slope. Politics and society

are in decay as well. What not and what not. The institutions mandated under the law to

protect the Constitution are unable to do so. We will talk on these issues today. What Dr

Tahir-ul-Qadri pointed out on December 23 seems to be coming true today. We will ask

him today as to what is his position on these matters as these things become manifestly

clear to 180 million people. We will discuss these and other related issues. Today we

have with us Shaykh-ul-Islam Dr Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri. Thank you Doctor sahib for

joining us today.

Doctor sahib, whatever you had said is happening today. You were fiercely opposed then

sir but your opponents are crying on the top of their voices on TV channels that no

scrutiny is being done. Nothing is happening as Articles 62 and 63 are not being

implemented. The corrupt people of all hues and colours are comfortably sailing through

the process of scrutiny. The Election Commission, which was unconstitutionally

composed and for whose reconstitution you went to the apex court, was letting people

pass through the process unhindered by invoking its fake powers. Everything was being

done under the very nose of the Supreme Court but we do not have any guarantee for

protection of the Constitution. We do not see transparency being in sight. What will you

say?
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Dr Tahir-ul-Qadri

Dr Danish, whatever you have said in your introductory remarks, there is little with

which one can disagree. You have said everything in introduction that I wanted to say. I

spoke on these issues in my speech at the public meeting on December 23 and called for

complete change in the electoral system. Then again, I continued to emphasize these

matters from Islamabad Long March and sit-in on January 12 to January 17. I raised

these demands, woke people up and apprised the entire nation about grave conspiracy

which was hatched in the form of elections, the plan of plunging the nation into

destructive future and long dark night, and the arrangements made to install corrupt

elements back into corridors of power under the fake mandate and politics of deal-

making or Muk Muka.

I had further said that the ECP was unconstitutional, illegal and immoral; an institution

which was composed unconstitutionally, illegally and in whose appointments of

members, the laid-down procedure was not followed. How can the nation expect such an

institution to preside over fair, free and transparent elections based on justice? I kept on

stressing these things vigorously as was evident in my speech at public meeting on

March 17 in Rawalpindi. At that time, I was opposed, day in and day out, by both

political and non-political people who branded my struggle and position on issues as

anti-democracy. They would laugh away my contentions, and regard them as opposed to

the Constitution. I am grateful to Allah Almighty that whatever I had said, time proved


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me right and the same opponents are now crying. This is merely a beginning, not end of

it. They will cry in post-May political scenario.

I want to say it openly and on record that an evil deal has been struck in which all

institutions are party including politicians, practitioners of law, Election Commission,Returning Officers, and the Caretakers. I want to inform the nation and each one of

constitutional institution that fake democracy will destroy this country, decimate its

future. A leadership consisting of corrupt, incompetent and dishonest people will sink the

boat of this nation and the people will be left to weep. What we need is real democracy,

not the fake one. Drama has been enacted to impose fake democracy on the people.

Whatever is happening is happening under the very nose of the Election Commission, in

front of its very eyes and it now increasingly becomes clear with its collusion, planning

and by design. Where was the Election Commission when the so-called scrutiny wasconducted for seven days in which the Returning Officers asked people meaningless and

purposeless questions regarding the number of their wives and names of fruits? They

made fun of Articles 62 and 63 by making candidates recite Dua-e-Qanoot, and national

anthem. Do Articles 62 and 63 deal with these issues? Why were the ROs allowed to

sabotage the entire scrutiny process?

Why did the Election Commission and the apex judiciary not take note of such instances

when they continued to be broadcast for seven days and nights by the electronic media?

Why the Chief Election Commissioner and the Caretaker Prime Minister were were mumon blatant violation of law and relevant constitutional provisions? On the other hand, the

nomination papers of renowned intellectual and scholar Ayaz Amir were rejected on the

basis of phony charge of writing against Pakistans ideology. What was required to be

asked was never asked.

I want to tell you, Dr Danish and the entire nation that this drama was allowed to be

enacted due to a conspiracy. A justification was handed over to next parliament, which

will come into being as a result of fake elections to strike down these Articles from the

Constitution. That is why the ROs rendered Articles 62 and 63 and the scrutiny processinto an entertainment item. These ROs committed misconduct and gross violation of law.

They should be sent home and put behind the bar. They do not deserve to serve as

judges. No one bothered to take notice of this attitude.

Independent judiciary, that in Pakistani context means that it can do anything and still

go scot-free, turned a blind eye to the entire affair. That is why my petition seeking the

reconstitution of the illegally composed Election Commission was not even heard. The

drama being enacted today was planned. Had the matter been heard and the ECP

reconstituted consisting of people of good character, it would have guaranteed theconduct of meaningful electoral exercise.


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I want to tell that except the Chief Election Commissioner, all other four members were

compromised and their loyalties have been bought. They are in their positions to protect

the interests of their political masters. A few days ago, the nation saw a sight of

caretaker Minister for Interior and a high-ranking official of the Election Commission

giving a statement in favour of a political party and quarrelling with the media men.

Media has been showing this day and night that these are political cells of the parties

and protecting their interests. The drama was scripted for protection of their interests so

that peoples opinions could be turned against Articles 62 and 63 and the fake

Parliament would have a reason in strike down these Articles from the Constitution at

the first available opportunity.

Dr Danish

Dr Qadri, I want to bring one thing before you. Please explain it too. The Supreme Courtdid talk of scrutiny process taking place as per spirit of Articles 62 and 63 but what has

transpired on the ground points to dichotomy between promise and action. The records

have proven that cases have been lying pending before the courts for a very long period

of time. Media has shown that the erring individuals and parties have had stays on their

cases. According to the judicial procedure, the period of stay on legal matters cannot be

longer than 6 months. While those having stays on their cases were declared eligible to

contest polls, judiciary including the apex court did nothing. 19 cases of fake degrees are

lying before the lower judiciary but decisions are not yet forthcoming.

There are a number of cases before the Supreme Court such as Memo gate case, High

Treason Case, NLC, Abotabad Commission Report, Ephedrine case, Hajj corruption case,

Drugs case, and many more but these cases have not been decided so far. The Public

Accounts Committee has, likewise, been seized of a number of cases of loan write-off. A

member of PAC has told me himself that the courts are not taking up their cases. Now all

the loan defaulters, tax evaders and fake degree holders have passed through the

scrutiny process, they have the justification to say that there was no blot on them as

they were declared eligible in every respect as they have been cleared by the Returning

Officers under Articles 62 and 63. What will you say sir?

Dr Tahir-ul-Qadri

A big fraud is being committed with the nation, the Constitution and its people in the

name of Articles 62 and 63. A serious conspiracy is afoot against the country. I wonder

why the institutions entrusted with the responsibility of checking such transgressions are

being mum on this state of affairs. No election is being conducted in this country. It is

corruption, rigging being committed with abandon. Everything unconstitutional is being

done in the name of scrutiny. You will recall that I demanded fixation of one month for


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comprehensive and meaningful scrutiny to take place. But the political parties remained

stick to origin one week period.

The purpose was to create conditions in which no one should be able to make sense of

the things. Given the workload and huge burden, it is not possible to undertakemeaningful scrutiny in seven days. I agree to what you have said about loan defaulters.

I would like to add one more thing. The Supreme Court of Pakistan established a

Commission to probe the loan defaults and furnish a complete list of loan defaulters from

1971 to 1990. The record of loan defaulters is present with the Supreme Court. Likewise,

the list of those who got their loans written off from 1992 to 2009 is also with the apex

court. This is the condition of one institution.

Let me get to Parliament now. A report of loan defaulters was presented in the National

Assembly in September 2012. This default took place in a period of last five years. Therecord is lying with both National Assembly and the Supreme Court. The concerned

banks submitted thousands of documents to that effect. Some people did not get their

loan written off nor did they pay it back. They rescued themselves from court cases by

handing over their disputed properties with the courts. The banks are filing cases against

these big people but to no avail. All those documents can be made available to the

Election Commission within no time.

I now want to draw your attention to a list of loan defaulters issued by the State Bank of

Pakistan on October 20, 2010. This list is in my hands. The Bank submitted before theapex court to take action against the defaulting companies. The Court as well as Election

Commission will be having the list with them. But what happened is before everyone to

see. What is unfortunate is that proofs are available in black and white. The problem lies

with the will to move against such elements. All those accused of wrong doings and

corrupt practices have been given safe passage. Cleansing will take place when our

institutions will be function without political considerations.

The institutions of Pakistan are not working for the state but for politics. That is why I

raised the voice of save state, not politics. I am not against politics. I am againstpolitics of corruption, partisanship, loot, plunder of national resources and dishonesty.

This kind of politics is eating into vitals of Pakistani state and society. The institutions

have ganged up for protection of this kind of politics. I want to tell you that five

institutions are playing criminal role:

1. The biggest of the criminals is Election Commission of Pakistan. Four membershave compromised loyalty and integrity. They are beholden to political parties

and their patrons. Everything is being done by design.


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2. NAB is the second criminal. It has compiled heaps of record of corruption of alloffice holders from Presidents to Prime Ministers, to Ministers, to politicians to

the government officials. It did not furnish its record. I will talk on it later on.

3. FIA is the third criminal institution. It has complete data of criminalinvestigation but it did not share it with anyone.

4. FBR likewise also did not furnish data and record to the concerned authorities.5. The fifth criminal is the State Bank of Pakistan. It did not upload defaulters list

on its website nor did it give direct access to the people.

These institutions have ganged up to protect their masters but why? Let me tell you this.

The officials manning these organizations are beholden to politicians who are responsible

for their transfers, postings, and promotions. The political elite holds the fate of these

government employees in their hands. Therefore, the employees cannot take the risk of

annoying their masters. They are in fact responding all the favours done to them. They

know that these are elections of corruption and the same crop of corrupt leaders will be

back in the saddle. So why risk ones job and future?

Either they come to power individually or collectively. Only they will occupy positions of

power. There is no space for new people in the system. The electoral system is enemy of

new leadership, honesty, integrity and fair play. It is enemy of real democracy, and

justice. They think that if we disclosed their record, they would hold us by collars and

hold us accountable once they returned to power.

Now interestingly, Mr. Imran Ahmad Khan, Director of Information Management System

of the Election Commission, appeared in the Lahore High Court and gave an official

statement that we could not place in the form of a consolidated lists the details of loan

and tax defaulters shared by the State Bank and FBR. It means that Article 63 was not

even touched while Article 62 was made fun of through ludicrous questions. The

Returning Officers did not have the lists of loan and tax defaulters with them because

these were not shared with them. If the ECP could not prepare lists, why and how is it

going to hold elections?

Why did five members of the ECP not address a press conference and tell the nation that

they cannot conduct scrutiny as they do not have lists ready with them. They could tell

the people that FBR, State Bank, NAB and FIA are not furnishing lists of defaulters. They

should have taken the nation into confidence. But they still chose to go ahead with the

process because ritual of scrutiny was observed to pave the way for corrupt elements

who have fed themselves on the state resources. The purpose was to install them into

position of power. The ECP has committed this crime against the nation.

The Election Commission issued a handbook for Returning Officers and AssistantReturning Officers bearing guidelines and instructions. But the handbook did not address


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the issues of loan defaults and tax evasion. The job of the ECP is to facilitate the entry of

known corrupt elements and looters into power. It is not bothered about the stay on

cases. It okayed the appointment of Deputy Governor of the State Bank who was

appointed by the outgoing government on the last day. It initially expressed its

reservations on the posting but later on reneged on this.

It has been a pattern here that the institutions raise hue and cry initially so that the

people have a feeling that they are alert and doing their job excellently. They do this to

curry favour with the people. The next day, they withdraw their statement and allow the

people to pass through the process unquestioned and unhindered. The entire story is

being played out according to script. The fake degree holders were sentenced first and

then freed. The cases have been decided according to whims and caprices and not on

the basis of points of law.

Dr Danish

There is a great yearning for change among the masses but the chances of free, fair and

transparent elections are diminishing by the day. All those institutions including the

caretaker government, Election Commission or any other institution do not seem to take

steps which might ensure fair and free polls. If no change comes about and the post-

election scenario is marked by bloodshed and deteriorating law and order, who will be

responsible for this?

Dr Tahir-ul-Qadri

Since time is very short, I would like to talk on this topic in detail in some next

programme. Allow me to complete my earlier reply before I come to this question. I

have two letters with me; SBP letter issued with the signature of Syed Ali Jafar Abdid on

March 31, 2013 and the second letter was issued by NAB with the signatures of Major (r)

Tariq and OICNEC on April 3, 2013. These letters list the names of defaulters. I do not

want to name names but only want to add that names of all big leaders are mentioned in

these letters. These people do not take loans in their own names. They take loans in thename of companies. Their companies have defaulted. He who is a simpleton will take

loan in his own name.

All of these leaders have their business firms and companies. They and their dependents

have shares up to 49% in these companies. You cannot catch them till Day of Judgment

according to the Banking Laws. They are adept at hiding corruption. The NAB letter

dated April 3 that I am showing on screen says that a leader of a major party is a willful

defaulter and his case has been pending in the court for many years in the Accountability

Court of Rawalpindi. This case has been pending since 2001 till today. Does independent


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judiciary not have eyes and ears? Does Election Commission not have eyes and ears? If I

have this letter with me, I am sure they would be having the same.

There is another letter issued by an Electricity Supply Company, which accuses a head of

a political party of being defaulter on count of payment of electricity bills. I did not namethe city to which the leader belongs lest you should identify him. My job is not to raise

finger on anyone but to expose the system.

As for your question that voting will not result in change of leadership, PAT has decided

to boycott elections in view of these ground realities. I appeal to the entire nation to

reject the incumbent system and join the public sit-ins being organized by PAT on the

polling day. We need to tell the world that we are united against corruption. We stand

for real democracy. There is a need of revolution to put real democracy in place. Around

10,000 politicians and officers will have to be put behind the bar. You need a substantialchange. You need a very big democratic revolution. You need complete change of the

system.

Dr Tahir-ul-Qadri’s historic interview with ARY News

Documents

Transcript of Dr Tahir-ul-Qadri’s historic interview with ARY News