Deeptrust

Deep Trust

Achieve Deeper Levels Of Intimacy & Trust With Your List

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Nic: Hi there. This is Nic Penrake and welcome to this call.

Today I will be talking to my good friend Igor Kheifets about list building strategies and I think the center is on the issue of trust, how to build trust, maintain trust, how to work trust into

every aspect of your marketing.

I’ve known Igor for about a year now and I would say that

more than anyone else in internet marketing, he’s the key person to help me turn the corner from making no money online, in fact a loss, to turning a profit.

So welcome Igor. Today we’re going to be talking about list building. Could you give us a brief overview of how you

started with list building and the kinds of strategies that you began implementing and getting great results with?

Igor: Sure. Well, first of all, thank you for inviting me to do this call and just so you guys know, it wasn’t planned. We did not go through any specific structures. This is an

improvised call that Nic talked me into doing to share some kick-ass list building strategies with you.

As a mentor, I only started working on list building maybe like a year ago. Until then, I was just like you. I’ve tried a lot of different tactics including the WarriorForum. I’ve tried

launching products and manually searching for people to promote it with no success. I tried Facebook. I’ve also played around with pay per view traffic which almost worked for me

but eventually I lost a few hundred bucks. And at that stage it was almost a third of my monthly paycheck. A really painful experience. LOL.

Eventually I worked my way up to building a list of a few thousand people and at that point, it became smooth or

should I say smoother than before and today I’m a proud owner of a few lists in total of around 60,000 subscribers

Nic: Yes, that’s quite a decent size. Yes. I’m still under 10,000 so that’s quite an achievement.

Igor: But you’re already making money so that’s good. We can make money with a small list.

Nic: You can, yes and some people make quite good money with small lists. That will bring us back to the issue of trust. I mean getting a responsive list is all about establishing trust.

Igor: Definitely, especially today when so many people are trying their skills at email marketing and most of them are just doing it plain wrong, making the rest of us look bad.

And if you’re in doubt, whether email marketing is an oversaturated strategy, I still believe there’s plenty of money to be made with email marketing and list building because

90 percent of email marketers will always do it wrong. Which gives you an opportunity to do it right and stand out.

So even if you’re just getting started and you’re skeptical about this whole thing, don’t be. Just make sure you’re listening to the right advice from people who really do make

money and not just pretend to make money, right?

Nic: Yes. Absolutely. So if we start with list building and the

trust side of things, perhaps we start with how you build a list. Well, most people on this call will know that you start with the squeeze page and opt-ins and you build your list

that way. So perhaps we can talk a little bit about how we establish trust with the squeeze page and how we get people to opt in and so on.

Igor: Sure. Well, first of all, there’s more than just a squeeze page to a list-building funnel. It should include a paid offer to

upsell your potential customers, to make money first of all and to make your money back second since you will most likely have to rely on paid traffic in one way or another. (for

affordable paid traffic options, look into solo ads)

Basically what I like to do is use the “trust approach” which is

a term I coined in list building and I taught it to Nic as well as to my other students and they have been making money using it.

Today we know for a fact it works for many people not just me. It should work for you especially since 90 percent of

marketers simply ignore this by following the old path of opt- in, OTO, OTO number two, go check email, OTO number three, downsell and finally you get what you opted in for.

Contrary to the old approach which did not work for me, I decided to go a different way and establish trust first.

So what you do is you invite the person to opt in and on the next page, you give them what you promised.

Now why is this important? Because many people just make you opt in and then try to sell you three or four products

before giving you what they promised to give you for free; but when you just give them what you promised first, you allow them to let you in into their hearts a little bit especially

if you give away a really good piece of helpful information.

So for example you want to sell an ebook on growing

tomatoes and you give away a tip that has helped you to go from a tomato-growing “nobody” to winning your local fair with seven-inch tomatoes and you just share the secret

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recipe that you used to grow those tomatoes for free.

Now, if you get something like this for free from a person,

don’t you think you will start trusting him just a bit? I’m sure you will and that will motivate a person to keep listening to you and to most likely purchase your big product tomato

growing product.

So for example if you just give them this tip on how to grow your tomatoes seven-inch wide and then you say “now, that you know this, I invite you to check out my 32 Recipes to Grow Tomatoes ebook” or share “31 more ways you can explode your tomato size within just a few days” .

It should be really good. You got to have a good product to offer people. Otherwise, you will get lots of refunds.

When you do that, after you’ve given them a real solid tip, they could have just gone and implemented and got results.

That’s when the magic happens and the trust comes into play. They will be open to reading your sales letter. They will be open to click that button and take a chance.

Of course you got to have the sales letter, the hook, the guarantee, bonuses etc, but trust me when I say this: you will get a lot more sales and future repeat customers if you follow this strategy. Because trust is POWERFUL and that’s

one of the most overlooked things in internet marketing because so many people are being scammed everyday and the general expectation of an average customer these days is “if I buy something on the internet, I’m going to scammed. Someone is going to steal my money or they will just sell me junk that never works.”

Nic: Yes. that’s absolutely true and so just that people on the

call, especially people who are just starting, are clear as to this whole structure, we’ve got a squeeze page which then goes through a single opt-in to a download page and on that

download page, we deliver the free gift. But on the same page, we warm them up to the product that you want to get them interested in and that product would be clearly relevant

to the very first thing that you’re offering. In other words, the freebie. That’s right, isn’t it?

So we’re going from squeeze page to download page and then we’re warming people up on that page. So how do you

warm people up as doing the pre-sell as it were? Do you use copy or video or do you alternate the two?

Igor: Well, you could pretty much use anything. I know I have a page where I use video. I know you Nic, you got a page where you use video as well. I’ve got plenty of pages

where I use just a few paragraphs of text. It doesn’t have to be something big but rather something good. I mean I have a page where all I do is just reveal the 4 step

formula I use to create squeeze pages. So I call it the “SHMU formula”, a really funny name which makes them curious and makes someone want to opt in even more.

The S.H.M.U stands for:

S - “Short” which means your squeeze page has to be very short and above the fold.

H stands for “Headline”. It’s 90 percent of success when it comes to squeeze pages and it has got to be good. I mean it really has to be good. Otherwise, it will fail.

M stands for “Multiple opt-in forms”. So if you have more than one opt-in form, chances are you will get 10 or 20

percent more subscribers. This has been tested by me and other marketers many times.

U means – “Ugly”. Ugly pages often outperform pretty pages in many niches.

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And so, what do we get? Four to six paragraphs of text.

Then I invite them to check out my list-building product and well, they go and they buy. I mean I’ve tested this against having the same product as an OTO and for some weird

reason, it never works while the trust approach has yet to fail me once

Of course the important thing to mention is that you got to use single opt-in. So if you make them jump through hoops, for example if you make them opt in and then you send them

to a page that says “Go back and confirm your email,” and another link, now it gets tedious and they lose their interest but if you just use single opt-in, it’s normal. It’s OK. I know

many people are against that but they should not be because pretty much there’s no difference. If they confirmed or not, they still subscribe and nobody has yet to sue me for

using single opt-in. I can always prove this person opted in to my list.

Nic: Yes.

Igor: The important thing is to use single opt-in and the next

page they see after opting in is the page where you deliver the content.

So you don’t make them wait or too many unnecessary moves to get what you promised. So at this point, write this down. Use single opt-in all the time no matter the niche

you’re operating in.

Nic: Sure. Also another point would be that, especially in

the internet marketing niche, you can get better results. You generally get better results with just putting in the email field. You don’t need the name and the email on the opt-in. It

tends to get better results.

Igor: Yes, sure. I mean it gets you a significant bump no

matter what niche you are in. Of course it’s counter intuitive for a marketer not to ask for a person’s name but let’s face it: today, everyone knows that if you get an email that says,

“Hey John,” it’s not because that person really knows your name is John.

I mean once, I signed up for an online gambling site. I was very curious about it and so they asked me what was my name in the forum and so I filled “Chuck Norris.”

Nic: Right.

Igor: And the next thing you know, two weeks later, I’m getting a physical letter by snail mail and it says, “Dear Mr.

Chuck Norris, we’re so happy to have you as our customer,”

and it’s just absurd that Chuck Norris would live in Israel and he’s 18 years old.

Nic: Yes.

Igor: So you don’t necessarily need the name unless you collect it for some other purpose, whatever it may be. I mean I know people who collect more than just a name but they do

it after someone purchases a product, not necessarily opt- ins.

I know I have also seen squeeze pages that request name, email and a phone number. Now these usually get below 20 percent opt-in rate because people aren’t comfortable giving

away their phone numbers. So you got to decide what’s more important to you that the customer feels comfortable giving away his name or type in a fake name into it or not

requesting at all and getting like a 10, 15 percent bump of your

Nic: Sure.

Igor: So that’s totally up to you to decide.

Nic: Sure. OK. So take us on the journey. Now we’ve gone from squeeze page through to – well a visitor has from

squeeze page to download page then hopefully have been enticed enough by the copy or the video to check out the offer which comes after that.

Now we’re onto sort of the relationship building side of things where you’ve now got your new subscriber and you will be

sending offers and content and so on. So, let’s talk about that for a minute, how you set up an autoresponder sequence or how you set up a series of broadcasts with a

mix of offers, content, freebies. How do you do that?

Igor: Well, I used to believe the known fact, which now, I

believe to be a myth: in order to deliver and become a trusted source on the internet for people to be willing to open

your emails, you need to deliver some cool content and to do it for free. But then how are you supposed to make money?

And after watching a DVD recording of Dan Kennedy’s

seminar who’s a worldwide famous copywriter, charging up to $100,000 for one sales copy including 4% royalties.

It stunned me, to say the least, because he said to get someone addicted and to get him to fall in love with you, you have to give them more of “you”. You got to share more of

your personal life stories and not more free content. Think about it for second, you’re sending out like an article

about blogs and you just give them like a step-by-step guide on how to set up a blog for free.

Now imagine that somewhere out there, there are plenty of people who send out blog content and many of them are sending out paid offers; and so eventually, you think: “Well, this is free information so it can’t be that good. I better go off and buy a blogging course from a world famous blogger who

has been making millions of dollars every day for the last three years doing nothing but blogging and I will listen to his advice and not Nic’s advice because Nic is giving me advice for free.”

Now that is pretty much what 70 percent of people will think. I’m sure you will get many emails thanking you for such an

incredible article but eventually after a few articles, they will get so used to receiving content for free that you will lose your sales. They will be expecting the next freebie.

So instead, what you do is you send out personal information. For example, you share anniversary dates and

personal stories. Tell stories of how your mechanic ripped you off and how your mother law is a total b*tch, etc.

For example, I’ve sent out an email to my list a month ago saying I’m getting married and at the time, I traveled from Israel to Prague and never slept even a second during 29

hours straight because I had to switch flights and visit all sorts of places and so I emailed my list and said “I’m getting married!”. I got four times the response with that

headline.

I’ve got so many replies with wishes of health, happiness

and bliss, you won’t believe. I mean I didn’t even know so many people cared about me and ever since then, I started sending out content, shared my anniversary days, my fears,

my doubts, my life stories to prove some points and even sell some products.

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A few days ago, I sent out an email saying how I made six figures in 2011 and I expressed that I spent like 8 to 10 hours a day behind my computer working and how I wanted to switch my business model to get more free time to spend

with my family.

That email generated a lot of responses with people saying,

“Yes, you shouldn’t work. You should spend more time with your wife. You need to cherish her,” et cetera, et cetera while thanking me for that valuable input.

So what you need to do is just give them more of YOU instead of more content because in order to make money,

you will have to promote offers to that list.

Maybe it’s your product, an affiliate product or whatever but

the content should be paid and the “you” should be free. So, the more of “you” you give them, the more addicted they become to your “you” and reading your emails.

Nic: It’s amazing how many marketers market within us that just really have no personality at all. They replace their name

with something factual. It could be “Freebie Approved” like that, not even their name. So you just get an email from “Freebie Approved”. I mean who the heck is it? And

sometimes it’s not even signed. So you have no chance of establishing any trust with that marketer.

Igor: Well, I wanted to say that you haven’t got even one chance. I mean when you think about it, an average person who signs up to your list has already signed up to many,

many lists and he or she is receiving 80 - 180 emails a day.

Now when that reality occurs, many people will use every

trick in the book to stand out. They will use subject line and from name as means to get the person to open the email.

Of course most of the time, people who do use these strategies never focus on the content. You’re right. But it’s possible to use a different from name and still establish a

relationship as long as the content of your email shares a

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little piece of you with your customers. That’s what I’m

saying.

It’s not really about the subject lines. It’s more about the

content. Because today, it’s very hard to get a person to read the email, right?

Nic: Yes. I mean for me, the biggest thing, the most motivating factor is is the actual name of the person sending me the email. If it comes from Frank Kern, I’ll open it

because even if I don’t want to buy Frank’s offer, I like reading his emails. They’re a fun read and there’s some personality there and the same with yours.

But there are many marketers who just pay for this in a

way. They’ve obviously got a name but if I’ve got a hundred emails in my inbox, I will pick out three and they will be names that I generally enjoy reading so all those other

marketers have sort of wasted their shot as it were.

Igor: Yes, you are totally right and that’s exactly what being

personal will get you. You will generate rapport and trust with your subscribers and this will influence the way they scan their email inbox and when they see an email that comes

from Nic, who yesterday sent out an email telling the story of how he was in a hospital with his friend , God forbid. And so they will check on the situation because it’s not the regular

open-this-go-here-buy-that email and moreover, you can even tie your personal life with your promotions.

So for example, I remember I sent a very successful email promotion. I promoted Dan Brock’s Deadbeat Affiliate Course through ClickBank. I was watching a game, UEFA Champions League match on TV with my dad and I got this

idea: I was suffering from real painful back pain at the time (I still do, but not as much as I used to) and I developed this disease because I’m always sitting at the computer working.

Nic: Sure.

Igor: So I emailed my list and said: “My back hurts like hell and it’s because I’m always at the computer. Now, don’t be like me. Check out my friend Dan’s course where he teaches

you how to make money while not doing anything at all. That’s why he calls it Deadbeat Affiliate. So you pretty much

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just outsource all the work and you profit…” and at that time,

I had a list of maybe just over 2000 people.

I generated $547 sales as well as a few $197 upsells with

that email and I was psyched. At that point, it was probably the first time I ever discovered that people who read my emails care and listen to what I have to say. It happens

because of personality and not because of your free gifts and content.

There are plenty of people whose content is very solid but there are only a few who actually make the prospect fall in love with them. And that’s the difference between making

money with your list and making A LOT of money with your list.

Nic: Yes. That’s absolutely true. So once you’ve established trust – I mean as a marketer obviously, at the end of the day, you’re trying to make money from selling. How far do you

feel you can sort of push that trust in terms of the number of offers you might send out in one day or one week?

Igor: Well, it all depends on you and your mindset. Let me tell you that many marketers block themselves from making money on the internet and making money in general

because of old or ancient (or their parents’) prejudices against money. Many people will think that if you’re making lots of money, then you’re a criminal or that if you’re rich,

then you’re a spoiled person or that money attracts trouble and all sorts of ridiculous beliefs of that sort.

I know a friend who’s making lot of money in his offline

business and he actually believes that money can hurt your family relationships. He never shares the amounts of money he’s making with his family. So his brother doesn’t know how

much he’s making. His mom doesn’t know. His dad doesn’t know and even after this guy bought a brand new car for his parents, like a brand new jeep, and he gave it as a present

to them, they still don’t know exactly how much he’s making; and that’s all because he has this belief that if he reveals the amount of money he’s making to his family members, he will

ruin his family relationship with them somehow.

Another example I can present you with is in fact, very

common one. Many beginners, who just start out as internet marketers and internet sales people, all have the same

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negative belief about selling. They are simply afraid of it,

because they believe selling makes them “bad people”. What a silly mantra, isn’t it?

And eventually, since they are afraid to sell their product, guess what happens? They aren’t making sales. There you go, another example of human irrationality backed up by

emotion and negative beliefs.

Now, these are just few examples of the negative beliefs

about money. So mainly your list and the offers you promote to it is pretty much a flipside of this coin where people believe: “if I mail my list more than one offer per week, they will be pissed off at me.” Trust me, they will not.

Just accept the fact that it’s your job to send out offers, to create products and sell them, to coach people, to

build a list, to promote affiliate products. I mean this is what you chose to do for a living. This is your job. This is how you are going to put vodka… I’m sorry food on

the table for your family. That’s it. And of course you can always maintain a great reputation even if you promote products every single day.

For example by promoting only quality products to your list. You’ll have to check out the products first. Read the reviews.

Purchase them yourself and check out to see if it’s fluff that’s well-written, (well-shot if it’s a video).

Does it deliver good content? Something that’s actually beneficial to the person who’s going to purchase it and whether it’s going to help them make money… Trust me

when I say this, if the product your customer purchases through your recommendation makes him money or helps him make money in the nearest future, then this prospect will

thank you for referring him to this product, don’t you agree?

Nic: Yes, absolutely logical. Do you feel comfortable

recommending a new product every day? I mean, there are tons of great products released every single day. Just have a look at the WarriorSpecialOffers section of the Warrior

Forum and WSO of the Day.

Igor: Yes, exactly. You can easily promote a new product

every day. Now if the person purchases from you a few times a month, and you notice it, what you should do is

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approach this person and thank him. Ask him if he needs

personal help from you. I mean I got many customers who purchase my products all the time. They don’t purchase everyday but they pretty much purchase something from me

every month and they will jump on the next product I release for sure. I don’t even have to sell it to them.

Now again if the content is good and they got the money, they will purchase it. If they invested money and they made money as a result, they will purchase the next one. For

example, I know for a fact I will purchase the next product from Coby Wright who’s a good friend & JV partner. I’ve checked out all of his products and used many of them to

increase my monthly bottom line. So I know that if Coby is planning a new release, I am buying.

Now if the person purchases your products and he’s not satisfied or he’s not making any money and at the same time you know for a fact the product is good… If you share a

proven system that has worked for you that you know for a fact has worked for other people and you can actually back it up too, now that’s not your fault and you can’t make people

put the products they purchase from you to work. You can only present it to them in the easiest way imaginable and let them make up their own mind..

No matter what, the fact of the matter is, if your customer doesn’t make money, 90 percent of the time, it’s not your

fault. It’s either his own fault since he purchases and never does anything; or he purchases and tries to implement although he lacks the technical knowledge (which you

cannot control). So he needs to purchase another course that will teach him the technical side of things or hire an outsourcer that will do this for him.

Either way, your conscience should be clean if you promote many products all the time, as long as you

promote genuinely well written products and not Junk, in which case, I’m not going to stand by your side

Nic: Yes. I know you tend to get review copies sent to you as I do now. So it gives us a chance to go through the material and write an honest email to your list and perhaps a

blog post or whatever. So I think it is important to promote products that you – even if you’ve only sort of skim read, (you can’t possibly get through all of them) find worthy.

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But even if you’ve at least looked it over and got a sense of what it offers and it also reflects in your email, in your blog post, your review, whatever you’re doing, the fact that you’ve

actually looked at that product. You’re not just going on hearsay.

Igor: Yes, definitely. I mean back at the time when I was starting out, I wanted to stand out from the crowd when promoting ClickBank products because at the time, this was

my main income stream.

I was promoting them as an affiliate to my list and so what I

used to do, I used to visit the WarriorForum and at the time, it just opened up a brand new forum. It was titled “Product Reviews and Ratings”. And so every time a new ClickBank

system was released, all I had to do is just wait a few hours and then I would go and check out the thread with the reviews from warriors who already purchased it.

So for example if I was promoting “Auto Profit Formula” , I visit the WarriorForum. I would type the “auto profit formula”

keyword in the search box and I would read the thread titled “Auto Profit Formula Review”.

Many people would go and ask, “What is this? Is it worthy of investing the money?” and eventually within a few hours, someone would just go and buy and then post an honest

review of the product.

This way, you could actually see if it was just another ClickBank scam, which at the time was 50%-50% chance. Now as soon as I could find a positive review, such as: “I got 30 videos and software. There’s training on how to use the software. The software is supposed to get you traffic from

twitter. I did not use it yet but I’m going through the videos now and it’s really easy to understand. I’m planning to start using it tomorrow morning.”After a review like that where it

says what it is (most of the time, you’d get “blind copy” so you don’t really know what you’re purchasing until you purchase it).

Now I could email my list and say: “This new software has just been released. I’ve been reading the reviews and here’s what the guy is saying about it…” and I could just quote the

whole review and I would say: “if you want to purchase it,

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please do. Here’s my link; and as an extra bonus, if you purchase through my link and forward me a copy of your

receipt to dot, dot, dot, I will email you a free report I’ve written a few days ago about dot, dot, dot” and the free

report should be somehow related to the topic or the product

you’re promoting.

So if you’re promoting a twitter software, write a short report on “15 Proven Tweet Formulas That Get You Clicks” etc…

Nic: Sure.

Igor: You drive the sale through the free bonus and through

the review and I’m sure there aren’t many marketers (even today) that do this. I mean most of them just blindly promote the product they get.

Nic: Yes. How do you use bonuses in your email marketing as an incentive? If you buy from my link, send me the

receipt. I will send you X, Y, Z.

Igor: Pretty much what you just said. I mean you just tell

them out loud that this is your link and they should purchase through it. If they decide to purchase you will send them a free bonus which is dot, dot, dot.

It can be a report that complements the product. It can be a set of 20 PLRs. It can be a free coaching session with you. If

you got your own product, you can just give a free copy of your product and I’ve seen this. I mean I’ve seen people give away as much as $2000 worth of products for a $47 affiliate

product just so they could refer more sales and win an affiliate contest.

Nic: Yes.

Igor: Bonus never hurts. You know what? Even if you don’t

make more sales, you won’t make less. So a bonus is something worth investing your time in and what you can do is, if you know that product is launching within two weeks

from now, you can just go to the WarriorForum and hire someone to write you two articles for five bucks each, put them into a PDF and present it as a complementary report

they get if they purchase through your link. It’s very easy. It’s cheap and this tiny investment pays big dividends if you do it right.

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Nic: Yes. Where would you go for news of launches and so on? Are you talking about WarriorForum?

Igor: As far as I know, you’ve got JVNotifyPro.com which is like the biggest launch community. So if any big product is launching anytime soon, it will be posted there. You can go

and Google the term “product launch alert” or “product launch announcements”. You can check around the WarriorForum review and ratings because often the buzz

about a product starts way before it launches.

You can easily find out what’s the hottest product that’s

launching within the next few days and it gives you plenty of time to either write a report or outsource the report or prepare yourself for launch.

Nic: Yes. That’s a really good idea. So going on the theme of trust, if we just talk a little bit about building the list by means

of ad swapping. If people don’t know what that is, it’s basically finding someone you can do a swap with and if that’s to say you get them there, you give them your email so

that they can send your email to their list and vice versa hence the word “swap”. So with swaps, Igor, what’s your view on that and how you go about them?

Igor: What do you mean exactly? I mean there are lots of aspects to ad swaps.

Nic: In terms of picking the right people to do the swaps with because you’re running a risk of dealing with somebody

who might be offering rubbishy sort of offers and emails, which of course if you just sent out as is would start to damage your reputation. The pretense of the whole thing is

that you’re sending the email to your list and it’s your email.

Igor: Exactly. If you swap, if you know what it is, first of all

you got to know that you need to have your own list to do it. So if you’re someone who’s brand new and you haven’t got a list yet, this is not for you.

First, you got to build up your list to at least a thousand people. Any way you can do it running a free order special

offer or maybe purchasing a solo ads from either Nic or Myself or someone else; but when it comes to swaps, there are a few things you got to do.

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First, you can’t afford to be lazy and just mail everything as is. You got to check out the page the other person gives you. So if needs be done, you make him change offers.

Ad swap means -- I give my offer with my email swipe to you and you give me your offer with your email swipe and the

first thing I do is I check on your page. I opt in to see what the content is, what the sales process is and if whether this whole thing is a good fit for my list.

I have got to make sure that the page looks at least half decent. I mean we can’t send out an ugly page that’s not

structured, with lots of typos and the horrible graphics to your list. Sending out crap like that says a lot about you as a marketer.

Also, I got to make sure the content is solid. We don’t want to send out outdated crappy information to our list. If your ad

swap partner delivers quality for you and your list than you can go ahead consider sending out his swipe. And ALWAYS feel free to edit his swipe and inject some personality in it, to

make it seems as if it was coming from you.

For example, I’ll mention what day of the week it is. I will talk

about my family. I will say I’m very tired today or that yesterday was just crazy because I didn’t get any work done. Pretty much just try and make this email, this promotion, an

extension of “you” and not your swap partner’s… And last but not least, if you swap, you will get generic email swipes, as I like to call them, where it just says “A free gift and link

below,” like that.

Subject lines of this sort show no personality. No character.

They deliver pretty much no value and that’s sort of what you got to look out for -- you can accidentally devalue yourself in the eyes of your list.

Lots of people believe that you can kill your list with ad swaps but it’s only if you do it wrong (as with anything else

related to list building.)

The problem is ad swappers are not personal enough.

If you swap, you got to give them a little bit of yourself. Give them a reason. Nobody likes a guy who sends emails for the

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sake of sending emails. We hate spam. So you have got to

come up with a reason why you’re emailing them on Thursday at 4:00 PM with a link to a squeeze page.

It must be because this link is either good or helpful or you received a question from another subscriber asking for help in this specific niche or sub-niche or area of marketing and

so, you wanted to help. Sounds much better, right?

Nic: Yes, absolutely. I also find that a lot of people that I do

swaps with, they’re very lazy with their copy. They don’t actually say what the ebook is about. They will just say “this fantastic ebook” or “this brilliant ebook” or they will hype it up

and they won’t even describe what it is or what the benefit is even if I click on this link.

I find it really poor that people send you swipes with very little effort and you just think, well, if I’m looking at this, I’m not really likely to open it or click on the link rather even if the

subject line might make me open it; and I think it’s important to, like you say, inject with the personality and also to be a bit specific at least as to why somebody should click on that

link. What’s the benefit of doing so?

Igor: Yes. But then again, as we mentioned at the beginning

of this call, many people, and I mean really lots and lots of people, they never do it right. They never get it because they never stop and think about it. They never grow while the true

marketer (the marketer we all want to become eventually), he is constantly evolving and if you have been using these subject lines, you can always stop using them and reignite

the passion with your list. Remove the dead part of your list. Delete them or unsubscribe them and just start fresh.

You can run another series of promotions and get more people to opt in and you can always start fresh but the fact of the matter is you don’t have to do it like others are doing it.

You should stand out. You can make money with a small list. You can make money with swaps. You can pretty much make money with everything but you got to find the solid

workable strategy that you can adopt. So like Nic said, you want your subscribers to pay attention!

That’s the goal. So next time you send out a promotion to your JV partner’s product that pays $47 per sale, you want them to pay attention.

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You want them to click on that link in the email because you

said they should. And you can only do it, by constantly influencing them with your personality. And it doesn’t matter if it’s a follow-up email or one time broadcast.

Nic: Sure. In terms of emails that you send out and communication with your list, do you ever run what might be

called a subseries? So in a follow-up series, maybe seven days almost like a course maybe taking them through certain aspects of copy or do you just stick with broadcasts on the

whole?

Igor: Well, I used to suggest broadcasts but lately I started

experimenting a little bit more I’m starting to deploy follow- ups in my marketing. So today, if you opt in to one of my lists, you will get a seven-day follow-up from me. And it’s not

delivering free content. No.

As I previously mentioned, I’m going to make sure to do

everything I can to make you become a customer of mine because an average customer needs from seven to nine promotions before he decides to purchase.

So if someone is not buying from the first time around, I will send out a few more emails and try to sell them again. If they

don’t buy in a few days, I will then present them on a discounted offer for the same product or maybe with an extra bonus or what not; and so, I’m going to try and convert them

into a customer rather than a free subscriber.

When you become a customer, then I also send out

broadcasts. Why? Because I don’t find it necessary to have a follow-up. I mean I can afford to sit down and invest a few minutes every day to email my customers with whatever is

happening in my life today. So even if I’m not promoting anything, I will email something personal, sharing a story or sharing doubts and feelings.

The other day I emailed my customers saying I was sitting at a local café while my wife was shopping and it was really

cold outside. I sent an email entitled, “I’m cold,” in big, bold capital letters saying that she left me here all alone and I’m freezing my ass off and that I just wanted to remind you one

more time to take advantage of my special offer link. That’s it.

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Nic: Yes.

Igor: And I made like 20 sales from that email by being personal. Even an irrelevant personal detail helps to drive

the sale. What the heck do they care if I’m cold and where am I right now? I mean they shouldn’t and this seemingly unimportant detail shouldn’t even be mentioned when you’re

selling something on the internet, right? You can be on the other part of the universe for all they care.

Nic: Yes.

Igor: But …

Nic: It makes you more like a friend, doesn’t it?

Igor: Yes, exactly.

Nic: That’s the difference between good email marketing and a corporation sending out stuff like Sky or Virgin which is not obviously as personal.

Igor: Yes. It makes you stand out from all these guys that you mentioned who send our rubbish emails with the weird

names and weird swipes, right?

Nic: Yes.

Igor: You stand out because the only way you can stand out from a crowd of 100,000 other people trying to make money

with emails is to share a little bit about yourself in every email. So they have a chance to fall in love with you, to be friends with you.

Think about it for a second. You got a friend. You got to know his interests and things about him that his non-friends

don’t know. If I’m friends with Nic, I know his thoughts. I know his approaches. I know his beliefs. I know his take on this and his take on that. I can discuss news with him. I know he’s from London. I know his football preferences, the

football club he’s cheering for, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

That makes me a friend! It’s not because I’m living next door

to him. It’s because I know him. So when you share personal details about yourself with your list, you make them feel as if they know you and they trust you and you become

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a friend and not just a marketer. A friend-marketer will make

much more sales than a non-friend marketer.

Nic: Yes. I totally agree with that and that sort of ties into

what we’re saying about trust, doesn’t it? Your friends are your friends because you trust them. Well, that’s part of it, a big part of it should we say.

Igor: Yes.

Nic: Good. Well, we’ve been talking for some time now. I think we should wrap it up and we’ve covered a lot of ground here. I hope people have enjoyed the interview and have got

something especially after this theme that we’ve covered, trust; and we’ll see you in the next one or you’ll be hearing from us, shall we say. OK.

Igor: Always a pleasure.

Nic: Where can we go to find out more about you and how to make a full-time income with list building?

Igor: If you’d like to know how I’ve helped 24 people make a $3,000.00 per month using my *weird* list building tactics, check out this page.

Nic: Thank you! Igor: Feel free to check out the resources below as well, I’m sure these

will help you achieve greater levels of success and growth in your business.

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