This is a part of Maulana Khair Muhammad Hijazi Makki’s lecture series on Khulafae

Rashidin. Rendered from original Urdu to English by Musarhad (04-Khulafay-a-

Rashaydeen_018.3gp--05-Khulafay-a-Rashaydeen_004.3gp).

Debate with a Qadiyani There used to be a great cleric and saint, Maulana Sayyid Muhammad 'Ali. He belonged

to Diptin Rajan and was a great Mujahid, monotheist and exemplary polemicist. He was

also prone to high temper.

He had a feeling that when it came to the holy Quran and the noble Hadiths of the

Prophet ملسو هيلع هللا ىلص, how could a Qadiyani, a non-Muslim ever outdo him. After all, by Allah’s

grace, scholars like him confine themselves to the study of Quran, Hadith and the related

sciences only.

That particular debate was attended by the Qadiyani polemicist, Qazi Nazir. Nazir was a

highly cunning, dishonest and crafty Qadiyani who died a Qadiyani, a Kafir. The wicked

Qadiyani was also highly learned, having memorized long extracts from numerous books

like a bookworm.

A similar person was Maulavi Isma'il, a Shi'ah hailing from Gujranwala. He too

was a highly capable scholar. He would open a book, “It’s there in the Bukhari

Sharif at page so and so, …” and then he would start reading the text from his

memory for as long as three pages. The reason being that this unfortunate man

had done his learning at Darul 'Ulum, Deoband itself. He had later apostated to

the Shi'ah sect.

I, too, had an occasion to meet him. I was a young teenager at the time, probably

in the class of Kafiyah and other elementary books. As Allah’s decision would

have it, we came together on a train. It was just a coincidence from Allah. I did

not even know who the Shi'ah Isma'il was.

“That is why I have embraced this sect. I get lots of money,

and several women. What else do we need? Of course, I

know well that this sect is wrong and based on falsehood.”

In those days, though we used to study the sciences of Din, yet were

somewhat influenced by Balochism. There used to be and still is the

custom that when two Balochis come together, they feel drawn towards

each other. The weapon-bearing, long-mustached Balochi visage that

could frighten one to forget the dinner were things that attracted us. But

what else could we do? That was the environment in which we had grown

up. Plain and simple, we felt proud to be a Balochi just as a Pir, Sayyid or

Quraishi is proud of his lineage.

It is nothing but Allah’s mercy that He is accepting the service to Din from

unworthies like us. If He wishes he may take such service from even an

insect or worm. And if he does not wish, he may deprive great servants of

His from this honor. By Allah! I have seen grand Ulama (clerics) whose

knowledge was far expansive than even these campuses, and yet they

could not benefit Allah’s servants. They died sitting at home. On the other

hand, there are some less deserving people like me, yet Allah expands

their reach and spreads their benefits for the Ummah. This is Allah’s work

and He may choose anyone, just anyone, for this. It doesn’t depend upon

my or your capability, rather it is just Allah’s guidance and help.

Anyway, when the Shi'ah Isma'il saw us, his attention too was drawn. “Who is

this young boy?”

In those days there used to be classes like Third, Enter, Second, First, etc.

in trains. Now I learnt that even the classes have changed. Now, we have

sleeper. In those days we used to despise slipper, something to be worn in

feet. Now, they call the class with sleeping beds as sleeper. Allah only

knows the best! It’s a language, the language of English where at times, it

would go up, another time it would come down. The slipper in one

instance stoops low to the feet, on another occasion, the sleeper seat rises

up, waiting for somebody to sleep upon it. May Allah preserve us from

this English and its stupidities. Whenever they like, they raise a thing high,

when they so desire, they bring it down.

Anyway, when we entered our designated class in the train, the Shi'ah Isma'il

asked someone about me. “Who is this boy? So small and yet with so many

attendants and companions!”

“He is son of Hazrat Maulana Khair Muhammad Sahib, a great Alim,” who has

passed on to Allah’s mercy … Now, I am saying “passed on” otherwise at that

time he was alive.

“Ok, ok. Well. Makki Sahib’s son?”

“Yes, Makki Sahib’s,” said one of the people present there.

He came up to me and met warmly. “As Salamu 'Alaikum, Janab! Maula 'Ali

Dakka Jhowi!” In our native language, it meant: May Lord 'Ali’s shadow be upon

you!

Neither do we have any power nor capability to escape evil) ”ال حول وال قوة إال باهلل“

except with Allah’s help.) Even then I knew it was wrong, being a monotheist.

“What is this you are saying!”

He sat down nearby, and engaged in conversation with warmth and love. “I have

great respect for you. I am Isma'il from Gujran, and …”

“Brother, I have heard that you have done all your study in Ahle Sunnah

institutes. What devil took you into possession that you apostated to Shi'ah sect?”

I interrupted.

Quite honestly, he replied, “Makki Sahib, what is there to gain being an Ahle

Sunnah?”

“Sorry, didn’t get you.”

“See, if your beard is small, people won’t perform Salah behind you. As an Ahle

Sunnah scholar, people will even measure your beard with a scale. ‘Check, how

long his beard is?’ A small one would mean people boycotting him in mosques. In

addition, if he ever glances upon a woman, people will brand him a Kafir. If some

stranger boy is seen too much in his company, he has to face the slander of

unnatural lust. On the other hand, see how good our religion is. You can have

even eight women as wives, four teenaged boys in your company, shave your

beard. Nothing matters as long as you keep proclaiming your faith in Lord 'Ali.

Nobody has any issues.

“That is why I have embraced this sect. I get lots of money, and several women.

What else do we need? Of course, I know well that this sect is wrong and based

on falsehood.”

I thought, “ال حول وال قوة إال باهلل. What kind of man is he! Despite all his rhetorics, he

himself is acknowledging.”

Sitting in his car, he lighted his cigarette, and at once the

car collided with a truck and smashed to smithereens.

Allah did not give him a chance to repent. Alas!

“Why don’t you repent to Allah?” I urged.

“Makki Sahib, I will, before dying. Anyway, let it be. What would you like to

drink?”

“Rather, you let it be. What if Allah does not give you a chance to repent at the

time of death? What will you do then?”

Glory be to Allah! It is an incident of long ago. I was merely a young boy. As

Allah’s will would have it, his death too was quite terrible. Sitting in his car, he

lighted his cigarette, and at once the car collided with a truck and smashed to

smithereens. Allah did not give him a chance. Alas!

My loved brothers! Do try to grasp the issue for Allah’s sake. The base of

Islam is Quran, but you can never understand it without Hadith. No son of

his mother can ever comprehend Allah’s Quran without help from Hadith.

When the rules for the debate were being discussed, the Qadiyani set the condition in

writing that the topic for debate would be the Veracity of Mirza Qadiyani, but only

evidences from Quran and Hadith shall be presented during the debate. No other evidence

nor arguments based upon other texts shall be accepted. Maulana Sayyid Muhammad 'Ali

felt pleased as for him the Quran and Hadith were the be all and end all of life. He passed

his entire life studying and teaching them. Now, of course he has left for his heavenly

abode. Allah’s mercy be upon him!

“Well, I agree,” he said. He thought, “The Qadiyani has tied himself in a knot today. He

has entrapped himself by saying that no book other than Quran and Hadith shall be

presented during the debate.”

Both of them agreed with pleasure. Moreover, as both Maulana and Qazi Nazir were

indisposed in those days, another stipulation that they agreed upon was that if either of

the debators felt incapable of speech or of attending the debate, he could send a

substitute. Similarly, all the other conditions were agreed upon.

Now, when the debate started, that wicked fellow’s true capabilities showed up. He was

Qazi Nazir, a widely-acknowledged master of polemics. He had experience debating with

several venerable clerics. After all, the adherents of falsehood do hard work. For them,

there is only one issue, to prove their sect right. They thus have the opportunity to work

day and night upon that single topic. Whereas for the adherents of Truth, there is the

entire Quran and Hadith. How much can they memorize!?

The debate began and the Qadiyani started piling up evidences from Quran and Hadith.

When Maulana recited a Hadith, he would come up with a contradictory Hadith. When

Maulana recited another Hadith, he would start like, “But there are four opinions

regarding its interpretation. Ibn 'Abbas says this, 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud interprets it thus,

Qatadah holds this, Hazrat Mujahid opines thus, … First, you decide which interpretation

is correct, then only you should come up with this as an evidence. Isn’t it so?”

Maulana felt deeply troubled. He was not aware that this wicked fellow was so intelligent

and knowledgeable that he would be able to put Maulana in a spot. Maulana nevertheless

kept up with his responses by virtue of his vast knowledge and with Allah’s help. But

time was passing on. He was in no position to defeat the Qadiyani Kafir. The three-hour

evening session ended.

Now, there was the second day. He was convinced that he would be unable to defeat the

Qadiyani. This person was really knowledgeable. He didn’t know that the Qadiyani

would have such arguments regarding Hadiths and that he had studied Hadiths so

extensively. The only solution now was to change the polemicist. “'Allamah Khalid

Mahmud should now replace me. That is the only solution,” Maulana thought. “Only

people like him can understand the Qadiyanis’ nerves. As for us, we have never entered

into a debate with the Qadiyanis earlier.”

'Allamah Khalid Mahmud Sahib said, “Ok, so Sayyid Sahib commands me thus. Well,

our differences are internal. This should not let us get disgraced before the Qadiyani. If

Sayyid Sahib is defeated, they are not going to care whether the opponent was an Ahle

Hadith, Deobandi, or belonging to some other school of thought.”

When the enemy, the Russians, invaded, did they ask whose mosque was this?

When the Russians entered Afghanistan, did they ask the local residents, which

party’s mosque was this? Or, today – May Allah preserve us – when the Zionists

attack us in Palestine, do they ever care for our schools of thought? “Ok, I will kill

him, not you.” Do they ever say so? For them, a Muslim is a Muslim irrespective

of his sect or school of thought.

'Allamah arrived. “Hazrat Sayyid Sahib, what is this that you have done? How did you

sign these conditions for debate?”

“We were not aware. When they said Quran, how could we object?”

“Hazrat, as long as Mirza Qadiyani’s books are not on the stage, how can you show his

truthfulness or falsehood? Is that wretched British agent going to be named in our Quran

and Hadith? Here you will find discussions only about Prophethood and Messengerhood

in general, at most about Prophet Muhammad ملسو هيلع هللا ىلص being the last prophet. Mirza Qadiyani’s

depraved character is never going to show up here, isn’t it? So, Maulana if ever you are

debating with the Qadiyanis, it is essential that Mirza Qadiyani’s books get presented, to

enable us to lay bare his lies and falsehoods from his own books.”

“You are correct, Maulana.”

“Anyway, whatever is done is done. We will see.”

The debate recommenced the following day. The Qadiyani polemicist saw that the first

debator was not there. 'Allamah Khalid Mahmud had taken his place. He was well

familiar with the great 'Allamah. Breaking into a laugh, he said, “'Allamah Sahib! Have

your read the conditions for the debate or have you just come for debate directly?”

“Qazi Sahib! You are such a veteran debator and yet you are talking childish. I have

come for debate without reading the terms and conditions! Can you even imagine?” said

the 'Allamah.

“Ok, ok. Then be aware that today I will not let you present any book other than the

Quran and Hadiths. You are so used to cunning and craft, aren’t you? ‘Bring this book,

bring that book.’ No, today, only Quran and Hadith …”

“Well, I do understand. Today we will talk only based on Quran and Hadith. We won’t

present any book other than Quran and Hadith.”

When the matter had been confirmed and reaffirmed, Qazi Nazir started his speech. After

that the 'Allamah had to give his response. The 'Allamah got up.

“We will get into the debate later. But first, our audience should be clear about the

fundamentas. Are they aware what the Quran is, what the hadith is? Of course, we have

written in the debate terms that Quran and Hadith shall be presented. But first, our

audience should be aware of the definition of Quran, shouldn’t they?”

Qazi Nazir said, “Yea, it’s the collection of Allah’s words.”

“And what is Hadith?”

“A statement by the Prophet would be called Hadith,” replied Qazi Nazir.

The 'Allamah then turned to the audience, “See, even our Qadiyani brothers shouldn’t

hesitate. Do you all agree that Allah’s word is the Quran?”

“Of course, Allah’s word is the Quran, Prophet’s word is the Hadith,” the audience

responded.

The Qadiyani debator had admitted. The audience had confirmed. Thus it was settled

now. 'Allamah nevertheless asked the audience five to six times. Being a veteran

polemicist, he was well aware how to have the audience in grasp and how to fix its

attention to a particular point. So, after five-six reaffirmations from the audience, he said,

“Now, Qazi Sahib, could you please tell us whether Mirza Gulam Ahmad Qadiyani was a

prophet or not? If he was, then his words are Hadiths and so they shall be presented in the

debate. And if he wasn’t a Prophet, just write it down. The matter is settled. There is no

need to continue the debate any more.”

The Qazi fled the scene, vanquished just over this single point.

“Ok, I acknowledge my defeat. But Mirza Sahib’s books shall not be presented.”

The books are filled with filth and squalor. If the books came before the public, the entire

history of Mirza’s misdeeds would have been lain bare. When it would be shown from

his books what kind of prophet he was who took personal, physical service from stranger

women, the Qadiyani would be left dumbfounded. In his books, his claim to prophethood

is shattered by himself.

The Qadiyani was thus challenged on this single point. “If Mirza is a prophet, then

prophet’s words are Hadiths, and so why shouldn’t they be presented? It is written in the

terms of the debate that Hadiths and Quran shall be presented. Or acknowledge in writing

that Mirza was not a prophet. Issue settled.”

“Rather I would write that I have lost the debate. I am not going to allow 'Allamah Khalid

Mahmud to present our Mirza’s books,” the Qadiyani said.

“Even then you gain,” said the 'Allamah. “If I got a chance to do post mortem operation

of your Mirza’s life in front of this 200,000-strong assembly, if I could get a chance to

list out his filthy character from your books, then the truth would have come to light. You

are still able to veil your Mirza’s life of sins. So, you still gain even though you lose the

debate.”

“If Mirza is a prophet, then prophet’s words are Hadiths,

and so why shouldn’t they be presented? … Or

acknowledge in writing that Mirza was not a prophet.”