Darwin Is Soooo Last Year AFACCT 2010. Just kidding… Chuck Darwin (1809-1882)

Darwin Is Soooo Last YearDarwin Is Soooo Last Year

AFACCT 2010AFACCT 2010

Just kidding… Just kidding… Chuck DarwinChuck Darwin (1809-1882)(1809-1882)

Charles DarwinCharles Darwin

18091809-1882-1882

Voyage of HMS Beagle 1831-1836Voyage of HMS Beagle 1831-1836

““On the Origin of Species” On the Origin of Species” 18591859

Science and Religion Since Darwin Science and Religion Since Darwin The “Fairness” IssueThe “Fairness” Issue

Voices from an American Community CollegeVoices from an American Community Collegeandand

The BlogosphereThe Blogosphere

Paul A. Billeter and Danielle M. QuillPaul A. Billeter and Danielle M. Quill

Richard DawkinsRichard Dawkins“The Greatest Show on Earth”

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1416594787/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?1416594787/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0618680004&pf_rd_1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0618680004&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1GGN1Z48Mm=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1GGN1Z48MYD3Y26ZMCCMYD3Y26ZMCCM

……and now try to do that at a community and now try to do that at a community college in southern Maryland…college in southern Maryland…

The College Of Southern MarylandThe College Of Southern Maryland

Saint MarySaint Mary

CharlesCharles CalvertCalvert33rdrd LordLord Baltimore Baltimore

CeciliusCecilius CalvertCalvert 2nd Lord Baltimore2nd Lord Baltimore


Open AdmissionOpen Admission 8,000 credit students8,000 credit students

Mean age 26; Modal 19.4Mean age 26; Modal 19.4 64% Female64% Female 50% Transfer Track50% Transfer Track 24% Developmental 24% Developmental

129 F/T Faculty (about 2x P/T)129 F/T Faculty (about 2x P/T) 4 Campuses4 Campuses

Charles, LaPlataCharles, LaPlata St. Mary’sSt. Mary’s CalvertCalvert Waldorf Center for Higher EducationWaldorf Center for Higher Education


BelizeBelize (formerly British Honduras)(formerly British Honduras)

San Salvador Isl, GalapagosSan Salvador Isl, Galapagos(formerly James Island)(formerly James Island)

The College Of The College Of Southern MarylandSouthern Maryland

From the student newspaper, The Hawkeye, Dec 2001From the student newspaper, The Hawkeye, Dec 2001

““WHAT WAY DID YOU PREPARE FOR YOUR FINALSWHAT WAY DID YOU PREPARE FOR YOUR FINALS?”?”

•““You don’t know it! You won’t know it!”You don’t know it! You won’t know it!”•““Pray for a miraclePray for a miracle.”*.”*•““I memorize everything and do the best I can.”I memorize everything and do the best I can.”•““The way I study is get a good The way I study is get a good sleep and pray!”*sleep and pray!”*

*Recognition of a not-disinterested deity concerned with student exam grades *Recognition of a not-disinterested deity concerned with student exam grades (and an alternative theory of “grade inflation. ) …and the 50% threshold(and an alternative theory of “grade inflation. ) …and the 50% threshold

Gallup Poll Feb. 2009 Feb. 2009

Based on 1,018 telephone interviews with national adults, aged 18 and older, 95% Based on 1,018 telephone interviews with national adults, aged 18 and older, 95% confidence with maximum margin of sampling error is ±3% confidence with maximum margin of sampling error is ±3%

Gallup Poll Gallup Poll 6-7 Feb. 20096-7 Feb. 2009

Based on 1,018 telephone interviews with national adults, aged 18 and older, Based on 1,018 telephone interviews with national adults, aged 18 and older, 95% confidence with maximum margin of sampling error is ±3%95% confidence with maximum margin of sampling error is ±3%

E-mail from student’s mother to Biology E-mail from student’s mother to Biology Department Chairman, Summer, 2006Department Chairman, Summer, 2006

I have a student who is attending the above mentioned I have a student who is attending the above mentioned summer session class. summer session class. The professor is BilleterThe professor is Billeter. . My child My child came came home concerned about the fact that many comments were home concerned about the fact that many comments were made regarding “faith” (made regarding “faith” (Faith in GodFaith in God) and science and how the ) and science and how the professor’s relationship changed with his mother over his professor’s relationship changed with his mother over his knowledge of the sciences and implied knowledge of the sciences and implied a critical look at the a critical look at the sciences would discount faithsciences would discount faith. With comments like these on . With comments like these on the first day of class, the first day of class, I am concerned I am concerned that this class will be an that this class will be an Anti-Faith in God approach to Zoology 1020. Anti-Faith in God approach to Zoology 1020. I am a ChristianI am a Christian. . I don’t consider these comments and opinions appropriate for I don’t consider these comments and opinions appropriate for a public college or used on a public college or used on impressionable mindsimpressionable minds. Please . Please address this issue in your department. address this issue in your department.

There is inherent risk in attempting to address these topics in biology class. There is inherent risk in attempting to address these topics in biology class.

1. If it IS broke, don’t fix it. 2. Leave well enough alone. 3. Hippocrates1. If it IS broke, don’t fix it. 2. Leave well enough alone. 3. Hippocrates 4.“Mokita”4.“Mokita”

BIO 1020 ZoologyBIO 1020 Zoology• Non-majorsNon-majors• Terminal, both first and last college science courseTerminal, both first and last college science course• ~80% Female~80% Female• Problem-solving laboratoryProblem-solving laboratory

But first…But first…“Inherit the Wind” in “Our Town”“Inherit the Wind” in “Our Town”

or “A Tale of Two Cities”or “A Tale of Two Cities” June 2004:The Port Tobacco Players present June 2004:The Port Tobacco Players present Inherit the WindInherit the Wind Director Justin McKean sets the play in La Plata rather than Director Justin McKean sets the play in La Plata rather than

Hillsboro, the metaphorical Dayton TN of the Scopes TrialHillsboro, the metaphorical Dayton TN of the Scopes Trial

Photos courtesy of Dave Bayle, Port Tobacco PlayersPhotos courtesy of Dave Bayle, Port Tobacco Players

““Inherit the Wind” in “Our Town”Inherit the Wind” in “Our Town”•September 2001 WTC AttackSeptember 2001 WTC Attack•November 2002 Charles Co School Board November 2002 Charles Co School Board shifts rightward along with rest of USA.shifts rightward along with rest of USA.•June 2004 PTP production of “Inherit the Wind”June 2004 PTP production of “Inherit the Wind”•September 2004 CC School Board detonates a September 2004 CC School Board detonates a real “Inherit the Wind” drama in LaPlata.real “Inherit the Wind” drama in LaPlata.•Bush vs. Kerry is in full swing.Bush vs. Kerry is in full swing.•04/05 The Kitzmiller 04/05 The Kitzmiller et. al. et. al. v Dover Area S.B. is v Dover Area S.B. is capturing national and international attention.capturing national and international attention.•Terri Schaivo dies in 3/05 in Florida after highly Terri Schaivo dies in 3/05 in Florida after highly politicized, rancorous national bioethics debate. politicized, rancorous national bioethics debate.

““Inherit the Wind” in “Our Town”Inherit the Wind” in “Our Town”

•9/04: CCSB announces list of 100 possible 9/04: CCSB announces list of 100 possible agenda items for the school year.agenda items for the school year.•Mostly mundane typical SB agenda items but…Mostly mundane typical SB agenda items but…

• a proposals “inviting the Gideons to schools to a proposals “inviting the Gideons to schools to offer Bibles to our students”offer Bibles to our students”

• to have science books removed that are “biased to have science books removed that are “biased toward evolution.” toward evolution.”

• allow students release-time from school classes allow students release-time from school classes to attend off-campus Bible classesto attend off-campus Bible classes

• revise the sex education curriculum to focus on revise the sex education curriculum to focus on abstinence-only and pro-life positions. abstinence-only and pro-life positions.


The proposals did not go unnoticed…The proposals did not go unnoticed…


The The Maryland Independent Community ForumMaryland Independent Community ForumLetter 1 (excerpted):Letter 1 (excerpted): “… I for one am glad to see the board discussing “… I for one am glad to see the board discussing topics such as removing evolution from textbooks and making Bibles topics such as removing evolution from textbooks and making Bibles available to the students. If Christianity is true, then these changes would be available to the students. If Christianity is true, then these changes would be the most positive the school board could make. If Christianity is false, then the most positive the school board could make. If Christianity is false, then creationism is bad science and the Bible is irrelevant, albeit it is great creationism is bad science and the Bible is irrelevant, albeit it is great literature.literature.

… … the real issue behind both controversies [Defense of Marriage Act and the real issue behind both controversies [Defense of Marriage Act and Darwinism] is this: Are God and Jesus Christ who they claim to be—creator Darwinism] is this: Are God and Jesus Christ who they claim to be—creator and lord of the universe?and lord of the universe?

With history and science firmly on the side of Christianity, I give my support With history and science firmly on the side of Christianity, I give my support to those on the board interested in moving in this direction.to those on the board interested in moving in this direction.

Anyone [who does not believe in literal creation] should be required to bring Anyone [who does not believe in literal creation] should be required to bring forth facts that would support their position.forth facts that would support their position.

After all, if evolution is true, everything in nature is some form of proof or After all, if evolution is true, everything in nature is some form of proof or another and it should be easy for the evolutionist to make his case. another and it should be easy for the evolutionist to make his case.

Good luck. (Green 2004)Good luck. (Green 2004)


•The CCSB story appears in the Maryland Independent The CCSB story appears in the Maryland Independent the same day that The Washington Post reports a the same day that The Washington Post reports a program to supply laptop computers to underprivileged program to supply laptop computers to underprivileged kids.kids.

Later, the Post picked up the Charles County School Later, the Post picked up the Charles County School Board’s controversial proposals and the article, through Board’s controversial proposals and the article, through the words of our citizens, portrays Charles County in the words of our citizens, portrays Charles County in what some would consider a “Scopes Monkey Trial” what some would consider a “Scopes Monkey Trial” light. light.


Partlow, Joshua. 2004. Religion Colors Goals for Schools; Giving Out Bibles Partlow, Joshua. 2004. Religion Colors Goals for Schools; Giving Out Bibles Among Suggestions. Among Suggestions. The Washington PostThe Washington Post, Oct 3, Southern Maryland Section., Oct 3, Southern Maryland Section.

•A local high school guidance counselor was “flabbergasted” and vowed to:A local high school guidance counselor was “flabbergasted” and vowed to:

““pull my kids out of school and teach them myself” [if the Bible/anti-evolution pull my kids out of school and teach them myself” [if the Bible/anti-evolution initiatives passed.]initiatives passed.]

•School board president, Kathy Levenduski, said: “Voodoo is a recognized School board president, Kathy Levenduski, said: “Voodoo is a recognized religion. Wicca is a recognized religion. My biggest concern with opening to all religion. Wicca is a recognized religion. My biggest concern with opening to all is just that, we open to all.”is just that, we open to all.”

•A local high school teacher wrote to Partlow: “It would be a shame to see our A local high school teacher wrote to Partlow: “It would be a shame to see our credibility sullied by a silly literal interpretation of a borrowed Bronze Age credibility sullied by a silly literal interpretation of a borrowed Bronze Age Babylonian creation myth.”Babylonian creation myth.”

•The president of the local Education Association of Charles County said: The president of the local Education Association of Charles County said:

““It’s like a throwback to the 50’s. I didn’t realize we’re in the Bible Belt, but I It’s like a throwback to the 50’s. I didn’t realize we’re in the Bible Belt, but I guess we are.”guess we are.”

•


Partlow reported that, in his interviews, no member of the board Partlow reported that, in his interviews, no member of the board “actively supported the idea.”“actively supported the idea.”

Collins Bailey, the school board member who suggested inviting Collins Bailey, the school board member who suggested inviting the Gideons to offer Bibles to the students, responded that the Gideons to offer Bibles to the students, responded that discussion of the topic was discussion of the topic was “way premature.” “way premature.”

Mr. Bailey is an ardent advocate for his views and clearly Mr. Bailey is an ardent advocate for his views and clearly represents a large segment of our electorate. He is challenging represents a large segment of our electorate. He is challenging House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer for the 5House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer for the 5thth District U.S House District U.S House Seat in 2010. Hoyer typically wins elections by a 2:1 margin over Seat in 2010. Hoyer typically wins elections by a 2:1 margin over his 15 congressional terms. He beat Bailey 74%-25% in 2008. his 15 congressional terms. He beat Bailey 74%-25% in 2008. Unlike the Book of Samuel, in Maryland’s 5Unlike the Book of Samuel, in Maryland’s 5thth District Goliath District Goliath always prevails. always prevails.


•Board member Mark Crawford, a graduate of Liberty Board member Mark Crawford, a graduate of Liberty University said:University said:

““anything that will help build character and instill anything that will help build character and instill morals…is a benefit.” morals…is a benefit.”

•He also said:He also said:

““Noah Webster [1758-1843] was considered the Noah Webster [1758-1843] was considered the schoolmaster of the nation, and he said education schoolmaster of the nation, and he said education without the Bible is useless. And Teddy Roosevelt said a without the Bible is useless. And Teddy Roosevelt said a good understanding of the scriptures is worth more than good understanding of the scriptures is worth more than a college education.”a college education.”


•Margaret Young, vice chairman of the board said: Margaret Young, vice chairman of the board said:

““Certainly only one [theory] has been taught in the public Certainly only one [theory] has been taught in the public school system, yet the kids go to Sunday school and are school system, yet the kids go to Sunday school and are taught an opposing point of view. They need both taught an opposing point of view. They need both theories, so they are informed students.”theories, so they are informed students.”

•The chairman of the board, Kathy Levanduski, said: The chairman of the board, Kathy Levanduski, said:

““We have to be very aware that anything can happen at We have to be very aware that anything can happen at any time. It’s up to the public to decide … and voice their any time. It’s up to the public to decide … and voice their opinion.”opinion.”


•Up the road, in Dover PA, as Kitzmiller v Dover SB Up the road, in Dover PA, as Kitzmiller v Dover SB played out, the citizens of Dover in a rancorous school played out, the citizens of Dover in a rancorous school board election defeated the entire I.D. slate in 11/05 and board election defeated the entire I.D. slate in 11/05 and replaced them with candidates who supported the replaced them with candidates who supported the teaching of Darwin.teaching of Darwin.

•Federal Judge John E. Jones III, nominated by Sen. Federal Judge John E. Jones III, nominated by Sen. Rick Santorum and appointed by President Bush, ruled Rick Santorum and appointed by President Bush, ruled against the school board’s attempt to teach I.D. as against the school board’s attempt to teach I.D. as science in high school biology classes and as a viable science in high school biology classes and as a viable alternative to Darwinian evolution. 12/05alternative to Darwinian evolution. 12/05


Down the road in Charles County, the anti-evolution Down the road in Charles County, the anti-evolution school board candidates were largely defeated as well.school board candidates were largely defeated as well.

•Vice chairman Margaret Young withdrew from the race Vice chairman Margaret Young withdrew from the race in September.in September.•Mark Crawford was defeated.Mark Crawford was defeated.•Collins Bailey retained his seat but received the fewest Collins Bailey retained his seat but received the fewest votes of the seven member board.votes of the seven member board.

•CCSB candidates do not run with party affiliation but their positions are CCSB candidates do not run with party affiliation but their positions are generally known. In 2006 every Republican, including a popular sheriff, generally known. In 2006 every Republican, including a popular sheriff, commissioners, delegates, congressional candidates were defeated. They commissioners, delegates, congressional candidates were defeated. They stood in the shadow of a now very unpopular president. Darwin and Bibles stood in the shadow of a now very unpopular president. Darwin and Bibles were not central issues even in the school board race were not central issues even in the school board race

Letter to editor, Maryland Independent, 9/06 Letter to editor, Maryland Independent, 9/06 The 2004 fracas was not forgotten. The letters to the editor flew fast The 2004 fracas was not forgotten. The letters to the editor flew fast

and furious as election day 2006 approached and furious as election day 2006 approached

““In her letter ‘Let Margaret Young Be Sad Someplace Else’ Barbara Allen In her letter ‘Let Margaret Young Be Sad Someplace Else’ Barbara Allen accuses Margaret Young of accuses Margaret Young of pushing her own beliefs in intelligent design pushing her own beliefs in intelligent design as as opposed to Darwinian Evolution. Let me set the record straight.opposed to Darwinian Evolution. Let me set the record straight.

Mrs. Young is not pushing her agenda, she’s pushing mine.Mrs. Young is not pushing her agenda, she’s pushing mine.

Who am I? I’m a Charles County taxpayer who voted for Mrs. Young and Who am I? I’m a Charles County taxpayer who voted for Mrs. Young and happens to care what Charles County children learn, especially my own. happens to care what Charles County children learn, especially my own. Darwin’s racist theory about superior vs. inferior species is not only Darwin’s racist theory about superior vs. inferior species is not only garbage, but can’t be talked about at the human level without spawning garbage, but can’t be talked about at the human level without spawning hate-crime legislation.hate-crime legislation.

I am proud of those on the school board who have been willing to stand up I am proud of those on the school board who have been willing to stand up against those against those peddling their religion of secular humanism along with all its peddling their religion of secular humanism along with all its racism, bigotry and immorality. Darwinism can’t be defended and its racist racism, bigotry and immorality. Darwinism can’t be defended and its racist implications shouldn’t be tolerated.” Bill Green 9/06.implications shouldn’t be tolerated.” Bill Green 9/06.


La Plata MD is Dover PA and Dover PA is Dayton TN. La Plata MD is Dover PA and Dover PA is Dayton TN.

Hillsboro of Hillsboro of Inherit the WindInherit the Wind portrayed 1926 Dayton TN. portrayed 1926 Dayton TN.

2010 is 2004 is 1926.2010 is 2004 is 1926.

In many respects, they are interchangeable American In many respects, they are interchangeable American towns and they are interchangeable American times. towns and they are interchangeable American times.

BIO 1020 ZoologyBIO 1020 Zoology• Non-majorsNon-majors• Terminal, both first and last college science courseTerminal, both first and last college science course• ~80% Female~80% Female• Problem-solving laboratoryProblem-solving laboratory

““Black Box”Black Box”ENSI / SENSIENSI / SENSI

The Nobel Foundation. 1979. Ethics for Science The Nobel Foundation. 1979. Ethics for Science Policy--Report from a Nobel Symposium. Policy--Report from a Nobel Symposium.

Pergamon Press, Elmsford, N.Y. Pergamon Press, Elmsford, N.Y.

Dorothy Nelkin, Dorothy Nelkin, Science as a Source of Political ConflictScience as a Source of Political Conflict

““On similar grounds, On similar grounds, fundamentalists take issue with the fundamentalists take issue with the teaching of evolutionary biology in public schoolsteaching of evolutionary biology in public schools. They feel . They feel that it that it intrudes on their religious beliefs intrudes on their religious beliefs and demand and that and demand and that schools provide schools provide “equal time” for creation theory“equal time” for creation theory. They are a . They are a sufficiently powerful force that sufficiently powerful force that many educators, biologists, and many educators, biologists, and publishers view their demands as a serious threat to science publishers view their demands as a serious threat to science education. education.

Even Even fundamentalistsfundamentalists who seek to have the Biblical account of who seek to have the Biblical account of creation taught in the public schools, creation taught in the public schools, present themselves as present themselves as scientists and claim that “creation theory” is a scientific scientists and claim that “creation theory” is a scientific alternative to “evolution theory.”alternative to “evolution theory.”

The Nobel Foundation. 1979. Ethics for Science The Nobel Foundation. 1979. Ethics for Science Policy—Report from a Nobel Symposium. Policy—Report from a Nobel Symposium.

Pergamon Press, Elmsford, N.Y.Pergamon Press, Elmsford, N.Y.

Question #5 Question #5 Some people argue that the religious concept of Some people argue that the religious concept of special creation (the account of creation presented in special creation (the account of creation presented in the Book of Genesis of the Judeo-Christian Bible) the Book of Genesis of the Judeo-Christian Bible) should be taught in biology classes as an alternative should be taught in biology classes as an alternative to the scientific theory of Darwinian evolution. Many to the scientific theory of Darwinian evolution. Many people agree that this seems “fair.” people agree that this seems “fair.” Take a different Take a different approach to this debate: Discuss whether you think it approach to this debate: Discuss whether you think it is “fair” that the concept of Darwinian evolution is “fair” that the concept of Darwinian evolution should be taught in churches. should be taught in churches.

Among other things…Among other things…an inherently First an inherently First

Amendment questionAmendment question

Amendment IAmendment I

Congress shall make no law Congress shall make no law

respecting an establishment of religionrespecting an establishment of religion, or, or

prohibiting the free exercise thereofprohibiting the free exercise thereof; or ; or

abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of

grievances. grievances.

ResultsResults N=64 N=64

No=61% Yes=31% ?=1%No=61% Yes=31% ?=1%

Danielle’s preliminary interpretation of two classes…Danielle’s preliminary interpretation of two classes…

Class 2Class 2

But further mining of the data…….But further mining of the data…….

Student ResultsStudent Results N=64 N=64 No=61%No=61% Yes=38% Yes=38% ?=1%?=1%

Occasional kernels of Falwell, Huxley, Hitchens, Chesterton, Pascal, and Homer (Simpson) Occasional kernels of Falwell, Huxley, Hitchens, Chesterton, Pascal, and Homer (Simpson) Collectively the students expressed the range of arguments associated with this debate. Collectively the students expressed the range of arguments associated with this debate.

The Outlier: Category 0The Outlier: Category 0

Personal UndistrustPersonal Undistrust I personally do not think it matters, it’s a private I personally do not think it matters, it’s a private

matter of personal belief, and although people are matter of personal belief, and although people are aware that there are several possibilities of evolution, aware that there are several possibilities of evolution,

none of them are proven 100% truenone of them are proven 100% true.. Some people may think that scientific theories are Some people may think that scientific theories are

pointless…pointless… UndistrustUndistrust is a negative trust, but insufficient to make definite conclusions in the reasoning is a negative trust, but insufficient to make definite conclusions in the reasoning

process. (a version of Darwinian process. (a version of Darwinian caveat emptorcaveat emptor) “Why do you guys make such a big deal ) “Why do you guys make such a big deal over this?” over this?”

The outlier might not lie so far out...The outlier might not lie so far out...

During the "Scope's Monkey Trial (Scopes v State, 1926), During the "Scope's Monkey Trial (Scopes v State, 1926), Under examination by Clarence Darrow, Wm Jennings Bryan Under examination by Clarence Darrow, Wm Jennings Bryan

said: said: "I do not think about what I do not think about.""I do not think about what I do not think about."

The Outlier may not lie so far outThe Outlier may not lie so far out

Personal UndistrustPersonal Undistrust On the Showtime television program On the Showtime television program Bullshit!Bullshit! Penn Jillette Penn Jillette

(2003) says: (2003) says: “Everyone who needs to believe in evolution… “Everyone who needs to believe in evolution… does.does.” William Jennings Bryan and Penn Jillette stand on polar ” William Jennings Bryan and Penn Jillette stand on polar opposite sides of the debate but there is a sentiment expressed opposite sides of the debate but there is a sentiment expressed here that we found, anecdotally, to be common, i.e.: Why does here that we found, anecdotally, to be common, i.e.: Why does anyone find it necessary to have this debate at all? This is anyone find it necessary to have this debate at all? This is sometimes linked with versions of Pascal’s Wager. The debate sometimes linked with versions of Pascal’s Wager. The debate is a silly one intellectually because, in their minds, the issue is is a silly one intellectually because, in their minds, the issue is already decided and the other side is silly.already decided and the other side is silly.

The problem, of course is that sincere people, e.g. most The problem, of course is that sincere people, e.g. most evangelicals and most biologists, on either side of the issue evangelicals and most biologists, on either side of the issue consider the opposing view to be absurd. consider the opposing view to be absurd.

Category 1: Devout RejectionCategory 1: Devout Rejection: :

““I do not think that Darwinian evolution should be I do not think that Darwinian evolution should be taught in churches. taught in churches. I also do not think it should be I also do not think it should be taught in schools. taught in schools. Darwinian evolution should be Darwinian evolution should be discussed in churches discussed in churches so that people will be aware so that people will be aware of what is being taught to those who are in school of what is being taught to those who are in school and those who do not believe in God, but it should and those who do not believe in God, but it should not be taught in any church of the Lord.”not be taught in any church of the Lord.”

Do NOT teach Darwin anywhere, except perhaps for the purpose of warning parishioners Do NOT teach Darwin anywhere, except perhaps for the purpose of warning parishioners what the schools are up to. This illustrates the conspiracy theory opinion.what the schools are up to. This illustrates the conspiracy theory opinion.

Devout Rejection*Devout Rejection*

Churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, kingdom halls and Churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, kingdom halls and other places of worship are “houses of god.” Those are other places of worship are “houses of god.” Those are supposed to be sacred places to worship truth and god. We do supposed to be sacred places to worship truth and god. We do not go to these places to learn about unfaiths, or things we do not go to these places to learn about unfaiths, or things we do not believe in. Genesis teaches that God created the earth, the not believe in. Genesis teaches that God created the earth, the heavens, everything that lives on earth in the sea and in heavens, everything that lives on earth in the sea and in heaven. Going to places of worship is to build faith and to learn heaven. Going to places of worship is to build faith and to learn more about God. It is not a place to learn things you do not more about God. It is not a place to learn things you do not believe or have faith in. believe or have faith in. In a place of worship you do learn or In a place of worship you do learn or take in knowledge of some of the things in the world take in knowledge of some of the things in the world so you can so you can be guarded against them be guarded against them but you don’t study them as if that’s but you don’t study them as if that’s what you’re trying to become. what you’re trying to become. DarwinismDarwinism is the complete is the complete opposite than what the bible teaches and opposite than what the bible teaches and states there is no states there is no god.god. No it should not be taught in a place of worship. No it should not be taught in a place of worship.

*This student is a late twenties early thirties year old CARPENTER ! *This student is a late twenties early thirties year old CARPENTER !

OP at ACOCOP at ACOC: : Many biblical literalists insist that creationism be Many biblical literalists insist that creationism be taught in biology classes in the USA. In that everyone already taught in biology classes in the USA. In that everyone already knows the Genesis creation account, knows the Genesis creation account, I propose, as a matter of I propose, as a matter of fairness, that Darwinian evolution, fairness, that Darwinian evolution, which most Americans DO which most Americans DO NOT understand, NOT understand, be required to be taught and studied in all be required to be taught and studied in all American churches? American churches?

For the sake of this discussion, disregard the application of the For the sake of this discussion, disregard the application of the First Amendment's "Establishment" and "Free Exercise" First Amendment's "Establishment" and "Free Exercise" clauses.clauses.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The ACOC chat room milieu tended to be livelierThe ACOC chat room milieu tended to be livelier

For example…For example… Regarding Richard DawkinsRegarding Richard Dawkins: : Who the hell is this idiot and Who the hell is this idiot and

why does he deserve all these posts. Hell, the Pope didn't get why does he deserve all these posts. Hell, the Pope didn't get all these posts and even when he admitted that he smoked all these posts and even when he admitted that he smoked dope. Or was that just Ringo? Anyway, what the hell?dope. Or was that just Ringo? Anyway, what the hell?

Regarding an editorial by Patrick BuchannanRegarding an editorial by Patrick Buchannan: :

Nothing new here, same fundamentalist crap. Nothing new here, same fundamentalist crap. ..

In keeping with the moronic theme of guilt by association put In keeping with the moronic theme of guilt by association put forth in the article: pat buchanan wrote this article. Pat forth in the article: pat buchanan wrote this article. Pat buchanan is a Jew hater. Therefore whoever agrees with this buchanan is a Jew hater. Therefore whoever agrees with this article is obviously a Jew hater.article is obviously a Jew hater...

You bigots!You bigots!

Debate formatDebate format Both passion and logic are commonBoth passion and logic are common Rancor, ridicule and “flaming” not uncommonRancor, ridicule and “flaming” not uncommon Topic moderated by a bright Catholic gent Topic moderated by a bright Catholic gent Who locked it after 8 days and 147 postsWho locked it after 8 days and 147 posts Reasons for locking not stated; posts became Reasons for locking not stated; posts became

quite quite ad hominemad hominem

`̀ Darwiniacs, The A-Team, Presumptuous Prick, *F* off, racist.Darwiniacs, The A-Team, Presumptuous Prick, *F* off, racist. Sarcasm is an appropriate response to absurdity.Sarcasm is an appropriate response to absurdity. Pearls before swine. Pagan. Pearls before swine. Pagan. Origin Of Species thumpersOrigin Of Species thumpers This is a joke right?? Probably involved handling snakes and This is a joke right?? Probably involved handling snakes and

drinking poison.drinking poison. "disregard the scientific method and the fact that evolution has never "disregard the scientific method and the fact that evolution has never

been observed...“been observed...“ this Darwin monster is in Hell so here is what he said and you can this Darwin monster is in Hell so here is what he said and you can

decide to join him if you wish decide to join him if you wish My church discussed and accepted evolution My church discussed and accepted evolution from the pulpit.from the pulpit.

Unitarian?Unitarian? Satanic.Satanic.

Devout Rejection and ConspiracyDevout Rejection and Conspiracy

WindfallWindfall: To wipe all "religion" from the public community is to establish : To wipe all "religion" from the public community is to establish Atheism as a state religion.Atheism as a state religion.

The consequence of overzealous application of the Establishment Clause to exclude creationism would be The consequence of overzealous application of the Establishment Clause to exclude creationism would be establishment of Atheism as the state religion. “Darwinism =Atheism” therefore teaching Darwinism = establishment of Atheism as the state religion. “Darwinism =Atheism” therefore teaching Darwinism = Establishment .Establishment .

MattMatt: I think you've just hit upon the real agenda here.: I think you've just hit upon the real agenda here. Matt is the ACOC “grassy knollist.” He frequently equates Darwinism with Atheism and is among many who Matt is the ACOC “grassy knollist.” He frequently equates Darwinism with Atheism and is among many who

imply that biologists are engaged in a conspiracy to destroy religion. imply that biologists are engaged in a conspiracy to destroy religion.

Devout RejectionDevout Rejection

Marcus: Marcus: So let's ignore the fact that it would So let's ignore the fact that it would be illegal? That's almost as intellectually be illegal? That's almost as intellectually honest as most other discussions on honest as most other discussions on evolution, which are usually prefaced with evolution, which are usually prefaced with "disregard the scientific method and the fact "disregard the scientific method and the fact that evolution has never been observed...“that evolution has never been observed...“

SweetPea: SweetPea: “simple, just say “simple, just say [in church that] [in church that] this this Darwin monster is in Hell so here is what he Darwin monster is in Hell so here is what he said and you can decide to join him if you said and you can decide to join him if you wish wish

I can teach that”I can teach that”

Each In Its PlaceEach In Its PlaceStudent: Student: Sure! Well reallySure! Well really, actually as much as I would like it , actually as much as I would like it to be taught in churches, to be taught in churches, nono. I don’t think it should be. Just as . I don’t think it should be. Just as I believe I believe creationismcreationism (or any other religious belief-system (or any other religious belief-system creation story) should creation story) should have no place in a science classroomhave no place in a science classroom. . Church is a place to practice and celebrate a certain type of Church is a place to practice and celebrate a certain type of ritual belief and knowledge. It is something most people ritual belief and knowledge. It is something most people partake by choice and there should be no reason to force partake by choice and there should be no reason to force teaching on them in their place of worship that doesn’t jive teaching on them in their place of worship that doesn’t jive with their creation story. with their creation story. Church isn’t really a place for Church isn’t really a place for empirical thoughtempirical thought anyway. anyway.

There is a certain level of politeness and craving for conflict resolution expressed There is a certain level of politeness and craving for conflict resolution expressed by many students. The anonymity of ACOC and the debate format often causes a by many students. The anonymity of ACOC and the debate format often causes a devolution into “flaming.”devolution into “flaming.”

Voices of reason? / Seeking compromise?Voices of reason? / Seeking compromise? Finally, and perhaps most astonishingly, Genesis doesn't say Finally, and perhaps most astonishingly, Genesis doesn't say

how God created life. So who's to say that God didn't use so-how God created life. So who's to say that God didn't use so-called evolution processes to create life? Indeed, the ongoing called evolution processes to create life? Indeed, the ongoing evolution v. creationism feud seems to be a modern day evolution v. creationism feud seems to be a modern day version of the infamous, mindless Hatfield-McCoy feud.version of the infamous, mindless Hatfield-McCoy feud.

I don't believe it's an either/or proposition Jane. Plenty of I don't believe it's an either/or proposition Jane. Plenty of christians also accept the theory of evolution. My comment christians also accept the theory of evolution. My comment was directed at those who bundle Darwin - and science was directed at those who bundle Darwin - and science generally - with the antichrist.generally - with the antichrist.

•Yes, why don't we just focus on Hoyle. But not with you. You're a moron.Yes, why don't we just focus on Hoyle. But not with you. You're a moron.

•And you keep saying you know philosophy, so why should i explain Aristotle? Would you like And you keep saying you know philosophy, so why should i explain Aristotle? Would you like

me to explain why 2 plus 2 equals 4, as well?me to explain why 2 plus 2 equals 4, as well?

•Now, you're being an ass-hat. I laid out the entire argument with numbers and you mumbled Now, you're being an ass-hat. I laid out the entire argument with numbers and you mumbled

some unsupported generalizations. If you think that long post was "duh, that's crazy talk," then some unsupported generalizations. If you think that long post was "duh, that's crazy talk," then

go play with yourself. You sound crazier by the post. If you can't man up, then shut up.go play with yourself. You sound crazier by the post. If you can't man up, then shut up.

•I'm going to go out on a limb here, and assume you are serious and intellectually I'm going to go out on a limb here, and assume you are serious and intellectually

honest.honest.

Oh that's real generous since you've been dangling on the top branch of the stupid-tree since Oh that's real generous since you've been dangling on the top branch of the stupid-tree since

the thread started.the thread started.

Getting back to "establishment" we would need to know Getting back to "establishment" we would need to know what it means to "establish" a religion. Our forefathers came what it means to "establish" a religion. Our forefathers came from Britain which had a history of religious persecution from Britain which had a history of religious persecution (Bloody Mary et al) and this clause was to expressly prohibit (Bloody Mary et al) and this clause was to expressly prohibit those things from happening. Not to say that every state those things from happening. Not to say that every state office should state that there is no God.office should state that there is no God.

To wipe all "religion" from the public community is to To wipe all "religion" from the public community is to establish Atheism as a state religion.establish Atheism as a state religion.

Sarcasm and Ridicule are Frequent at ACOCSarcasm and Ridicule are Frequent at ACOC

Cephei: Cephei: On one condition, I think we should start with where On one condition, I think we should start with where all matter and energy come from, perhaps starting with all matter and energy come from, perhaps starting with electroweak baryogenesis first.electroweak baryogenesis first.

Then...we could move on to parallel universes...oh yeah, Then...we could move on to parallel universes...oh yeah, perhaps dive into the physics behind string theory on perhaps dive into the physics behind string theory on Wednesday night after choir rehearsal.Wednesday night after choir rehearsal.

SweetPeaSweetPea: just kill God and be done with it.............we are all : just kill God and be done with it.............we are all accidents and here by chanceaccidents and here by chance

ZachZach: Religious fanatics do a fine job of killing their own God : Religious fanatics do a fine job of killing their own God without our help.without our help.

Getting back to "establishment" we would need to know Getting back to "establishment" we would need to know what it means to "establish" a religion. Our forefathers came what it means to "establish" a religion. Our forefathers came from Britain which had a history of religious persecution from Britain which had a history of religious persecution (Bloody Mary et al) and this clause was to expressly prohibit (Bloody Mary et al) and this clause was to expressly prohibit those things from happening. Not to say that every state those things from happening. Not to say that every state office should state that there is no God.office should state that there is no God.

To wipe all "religion" from the public community is to To wipe all "religion" from the public community is to establish Atheism as a state religion.establish Atheism as a state religion.

Reply to Conspiracy TheoryReply to Conspiracy Theory

Zach: Zach: Although there are a lot of unknowns about abiogenesis, there are a Although there are a lot of unknowns about abiogenesis, there are a lot of knowns. It is not a vacant, empty field of science where no progress lot of knowns. It is not a vacant, empty field of science where no progress can be made, hypotheses formed, and tested, at least to a degree.can be made, hypotheses formed, and tested, at least to a degree.

The problem is, you won't get that information here. The problem is, you won't get that information here. It's lengthy and It's lengthy and complicated, and full of big words. The work of scientists in the field of complicated, and full of big words. The work of scientists in the field of abiogenesis is kept secret and is hidden in books.abiogenesis is kept secret and is hidden in books.

The Beginnings of LifeThe Beginnings of Life, Bastian, H, Bastian, HDie Hypotheses Uber Der Ursprung Des LebensDie Hypotheses Uber Der Ursprung Des Lebens, Pryer, W.T., Pryer, W.T.Les Bases Physiques De La VieLes Bases Physiques De La Vie, Leduc, S., Leduc, S.The Origin and Evolution of LifeThe Origin and Evolution of Life, Osborn, H, Osborn, HProishkhozhddenie ZhisniProishkhozhddenie Zhisni, Oparin, A, Oparin, AThe Origin of LifeThe Origin of Life, Haldane, J., Haldane, J.The Physical Basis of LifeThe Physical Basis of Life, Bernal, J. D., Bernal, J. D.The Origin of LifeThe Origin of Life, Oparin, A., Oparin, A.The Emergence of Life: From Chemical Origins to Synthetic BiologyThe Emergence of Life: From Chemical Origins to Synthetic Biology , Luigi Luisi, Pier, Luigi Luisi, Pier

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zach probably a biologist. He is also an atheist. He posts huge replies with citations to web Zach probably a biologist. He is also an atheist. He posts huge replies with citations to web and text sources. They are largely ignored and ridiculed.and text sources. They are largely ignored and ridiculed.

Windfall: Windfall: Your still missing the point.Your still missing the point.Churches can preach whatever they want. That's the whole Churches can preach whatever they want. That's the whole purpose of having a church.purpose of having a church.The The government is the one literally forcing the theory of government is the one literally forcing the theory of evolution on the children of America.evolution on the children of America.Do you think the government should be allowed to force Do you think the government should be allowed to force churches to preach other things they don't believe as well?churches to preach other things they don't believe as well?How about forcing churches to "teach" about "man made How about forcing churches to "teach" about "man made global warming" while you are at it?global warming" while you are at it?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------School is mandatory, church is optional.School is mandatory, church is optional.

Matt: Matt: Children are required by law to attend school. Children are required by law to attend school. They are not required to attend church. This is They are not required to attend church. This is fallacious logic. Using the same twisted logic: If fallacious logic. Using the same twisted logic: If California teaches six year olds about perverted California teaches six year olds about perverted sexual practices under the guise of sex education sexual practices under the guise of sex education we should also teach we should also teach How to be a Homo 101 How to be a Homo 101 in six in six grade Sunday School class. No. Notta.grade Sunday School class. No. Notta.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------School is mandatory, church is optional embellished with an analogy School is mandatory, church is optional embellished with an analogy

Zach: Zach: You are not applying the same standard.You are not applying the same standard.

There is empirical evidence for evolution.There is empirical evidence for evolution.There is no empirical evidence for God.There is no empirical evidence for God.None that the earth is 6,000 years old.None that the earth is 6,000 years old.None that all life was created within six 24 hour days.None that all life was created within six 24 hour days.None that it was all wiped out in a global flood.None that it was all wiped out in a global flood.None that it radiated outward after that flood from the Ararat Mountains.None that it radiated outward after that flood from the Ararat Mountains.None that any of the miracles described in the bible ever actually occurred.None that any of the miracles described in the bible ever actually occurred.None that miracles happen today.None that miracles happen today.

If the only evidence for evolution was unverifiable personal If the only evidence for evolution was unverifiable personal testimony, I would be equally skeptical of the theory.testimony, I would be equally skeptical of the theory.

““If evolution were what creationists think it is, I would not believe it either.” If evolution were what creationists think it is, I would not believe it either.” Dawkins???Dawkins???

Elvis: Elvis: I'm all for it. Origin Of Species thumpers don't do well when directly challenged, I'm all for it. Origin Of Species thumpers don't do well when directly challenged, thus their insistence that other views be made illegal. I assume that when we allow you thus their insistence that other views be made illegal. I assume that when we allow you into our churches you will reciprocate in the public schools? into our churches you will reciprocate in the public schools?

On a side note, I doubt that the "Many biblical literalists insist that creationism be On a side note, I doubt that the "Many biblical literalists insist that creationism be taught in biology classes" aspect of your challenge is even true. I've not heard of taught in biology classes" aspect of your challenge is even true. I've not heard of anyone insisting that Genesis be taught as fact in public schools. I have heard people anyone insisting that Genesis be taught as fact in public schools. I have heard people asking that alternative theories be discussed. asking that alternative theories be discussed. What'samatta, you afraid ideas? What'samatta, you afraid ideas?

Billeter: Billeter: And what, pray tell, do you think the alternative theories might be?? You And what, pray tell, do you think the alternative theories might be?? You know, list two or three.know, list two or three.

Elvis: Elvis: I can't list two or three but there are a growing number of secular I can't list two or three but there are a growing number of secular ID/Darwin skeptic scientists that Darwinists have not been able to answer.ID/Darwin skeptic scientists that Darwinists have not been able to answer.

ElvisElvis: I answered your OP and suddenly I'm obligated to take whatever quiz : I answered your OP and suddenly I'm obligated to take whatever quiz you assign me? you assign me? How bout you make a list of shut the hell up?How bout you make a list of shut the hell up?illustrates the argument that I.D. is not really the Christian God, wink, wink, but might be aliens from outer space.illustrates the argument that I.D. is not really the Christian God, wink, wink, but might be aliens from outer space.

Windfall: Windfall: I know this is mostly in jest, however, forcing schools to present I know this is mostly in jest, however, forcing schools to present alternate theories that can't be disproven isn't such a bad thing.alternate theories that can't be disproven isn't such a bad thing.

1. Children are forced to go to school by the state.1. Children are forced to go to school by the state.2. Schools are forced to teach evolution as a theory for the diversity of life.2. Schools are forced to teach evolution as a theory for the diversity of life.3. As evolution is one possible theory, alternate theories are presented.3. As evolution is one possible theory, alternate theories are presented.

A. No one is forced to go to any church by the state.A. No one is forced to go to any church by the state.B. Churches teach specific religions where it is unnecessary to teach all B. Churches teach specific religions where it is unnecessary to teach all religions.religions.

on edit: I think most Christians object to evolution being taught as a theory on edit: I think most Christians object to evolution being taught as a theory for the CREATION of life, which scientifically it doesn't cover. Although it for the CREATION of life, which scientifically it doesn't cover. Although it assumes random beginnings.assumes random beginnings.

Windfall understands the difference between evolution and biogenesis and Big Bang. Many posters on the Creationism side Windfall understands the difference between evolution and biogenesis and Big Bang. Many posters on the Creationism side conflate the three. Sometimes this is an extension of the strategy to divert the argument from well established scientific ideas conflate the three. Sometimes this is an extension of the strategy to divert the argument from well established scientific ideas to less well established ones. Macro v micro; Freidrich Wohler…to less well established ones. Macro v micro; Freidrich Wohler…


BelizeBelize (formerly British Honduras)(formerly British Honduras)

San Salvador Isl, GalapagosSan Salvador Isl, Galapagos(formerly James Island)(formerly James Island)

Verhey’s StudyVerhey’s Study Group 1: Group 1:

Icons of Evolution Icons of Evolution by Wells: Attacks evolution and is sympathetic to IDby Wells: Attacks evolution and is sympathetic to ID The Blind Watchmaker The Blind Watchmaker by Dawkins: Supports evolution.by Dawkins: Supports evolution. Icons of Obfuscation Icons of Obfuscation by Tamzek: An Online refutation of Wells and the by Tamzek: An Online refutation of Wells and the Process Process

of scienceof science

Group 2: Group 2: Read and Discussed The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature:Read and Discussed The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature:

AnAn evolutionary exploration of sexual selection an sexuality evolutionary exploration of sexual selection an sexuality

61% in Group 1reported some change in their beliefs; most of these 61% in Group 1reported some change in their beliefs; most of these students were initially sympathetic to creationist explanations and moved students were initially sympathetic to creationist explanations and moved toward greater acceptance of evolution. Only 21% of students in Group 2 toward greater acceptance of evolution. Only 21% of students in Group 2 reported change in their beliefs.reported change in their beliefs.

Active LearningActive Learning

The constructivist, active learning approach has been tested The constructivist, active learning approach has been tested and shown to produce significant change in problem-solving and shown to produce significant change in problem-solving abilities and sophistication of thought.abilities and sophistication of thought.

If students attack the controversy head on the gains are If students attack the controversy head on the gains are measurably increased.measurably increased.

Discussing Creationism/I.D. may be best way to achieve Discussing Creationism/I.D. may be best way to achieve desired outcomes, i.e. expanded abilities of sophisticated desired outcomes, i.e. expanded abilities of sophisticated problem solving. problem solving.

And that’s what college is all about.And that’s what college is all about.

Active LearningActive Learning

SOTLSOTL ENSI / SENSIENSI / SENSI Verhey’s StudyVerhey’s Study Nelson’s EditorialNelson’s Editorial

Another forum drifted into the realm of Dr. Seuss illustrating Another forum drifted into the realm of Dr. Seuss illustrating that some questions simply have no suitable answersthat some questions simply have no suitable answers

Poster A: Poster A: The goat is the greatest of all time. Goat.The goat is the greatest of all time. Goat.

Poster B: Poster B: Demi wrote a goat gloat. weird? Demi wrote a goat gloat. weird?

I would not read it in a boat; I would not read it in a I would not read it in a boat; I would not read it in a moat; I will not speak it thru my throat; I will not write it moat; I will not speak it thru my throat; I will not write it in a note; I would not read it while eating an orange... in a note; I would not read it while eating an orange... Your turn.Your turn.

Darwin Is Soooo Last Year AFACCT 2010. Just kidding… Chuck Darwin (1809-1882)

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Transcript of Darwin Is Soooo Last Year AFACCT 2010. Just kidding… Chuck Darwin (1809-1882)