Count Basie Recording in Surround and Multitrack · PDF fileCount Basie Recording in Surround...

Count Basie Recording in Surround and Multitrack

Gregor Zielinsky

A&R Manager

Sennheiser electronic

Basic Ideas about Surround Sound in Musical PerceptionPresenting the Count Basie Recording

Basic Thoughts about Surround

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Basic Surround Overview

General Approach to Surround Listening and Perception

20 min

Brief technical Presentation of the Count Basie Recording

10 min

Listening Session with “Hands on”

Around 90 minutes. Can be repeated later.

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K&HO 300

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K&HO 800

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K&HPro M 1012

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Basic Surround

Surround has less applicable rules than Stereo

Results in Surround are less predictable than in Stereo

Try and Listen.

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Possible Projections

Front plus reflections from the rear

“Natural Surround” (Berlioz, Mahler)

“Ping Pong Surround” (inside the Orchestra)

Surround Scores (Bouléz)

Athmosphere Surround, Electronic, Film

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Discussion of Projections

Front plus Reflections:

Natural and dynamic Soundscape

Level of Rear Channels

Too little = No Perception

Too much = Too little presence and too boomy

None or little Perception from the Side

No Phantomsource from a 5.1 System

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“Natural Surround” (Berlioz, Mahler)

Little Problems, happy about this

Too little Repertoire

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“Artificial / Ping Pong Surround”

May sound very attractive

Maybe perceived as unnatural

Concrete Sounds form the Rear my be received as disturbing

Extremely related to Sweet Spot

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Compositions for Surround, Movie, Electronic represent creative

ways of involving Surround into the artistic progress.

By this way these applications belong not into this discussion.

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Front Projection

Target:

Listeners should find themselves in the feeling and reception of a

relastic room plus the realistic 3 dimensional reproduction of the

instruments.

(same as in Stereo)

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Front Projection further Discussion

The following results are based on demonstrations of front projections recording in front of amateurs, pros and students.

Our ear/brain is not able to accept a constant level of Surround

portion as pleasing or existent for a longer period of time.

Either Surround Signals will be perceived as disturbing by a

constant hi level (Reflections or concrete Signal)

Or no Surround Partials are detected at all.

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The following results are based on demonstrations of front

projections recording with around 100 Students from SAE Germany

Students were placed at the mixer and had two tasks and answers

to give:

1.) Where would you place the Rear level

2.) How big is your tolerance between unnoticable and too loud

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Results:

(1)

70% ended within the same range as the Original Mix

(+/- 1 dB)

25% ended in an audible different Range than the Original Mix

(+/- 6 dB)

5% ended in an extreme different Range than the Original Mix

(+/- 7-12 dB)

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Results:

(2)

Independent from the individual point of Surround Level

preference the tolerance level was very small.

Around +/- 2dB

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Conclusion:

Although many people meet the same average level for surround,

there is a significant group that finds a totally different setting of the

rear level.

In all groups the tolerance of the rear level is very small

If the level of the rear channels is not accepted, the perception of

the sound will be negative!

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Listening Situation

Surround is not transferable to “any “ situation

Surround is much more sensitive to the individual setting of the

reproduction system than Stereo is and/or should be.

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Several SetUps discussed by Wendy Carlos

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Stereo “Rules” for Classical Recordings

Original Image

Depth

Warmth

Natural Sound

“Open” Stereo

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Stereo “Rules” Rock/Pop

Direct Punchy Sound

Panorama Rules

Center:

Bass, Drums, Vocals

Wings:

Pads, Guitars, Choir, FX

Compatible to “any” Situation and Equipment

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Generell Discussion

Surround

Basically Rules are similar to Stereo on the Stereo Dimension.

However these Rules do hardly affect the Aspects of the Surround

Part!

Results are unpredictable.

Try and use (m)any mike for real channels

“I just do it the way, it sounds best for me” (Carlos Albrecht)

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Generell Discussion

Surround

Basic Problem:

Position of the Listener evidently affects the balance between Front

and Rear Material

This is true for Room reflexions but especially for concrete Signals

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Generell Discussion

Surround

Basic Problem:

Variation in Level (+/-12 dB)Variation in Delays

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Generell Discussion

Further Aspects:

Individual Adjustment of the Homesystem

Wrong Adjustment of the Homesystem

No Adjustment of the Homesystem

(Rear Speakers in the toilet via WLan)

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Approach to Practical Solutions

Which ways lead to receptable surround sound results?

Microphone Set Up

Reverbs added

Specials to be checked out

(Signal Moving, Filtering etc. leading to unpredictable but nice

effects)

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Count Basie Recording

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Count Basie Recording

Recorded in February 2003 in Ann Arbour/Detroit

Live Recording 5.0

Comparison between several Neumann and Sennheiser Mikes

Originally released as SACD in VDT Journal and presented in AES 2004

This Time:

Alle Tracks are available

from ProTools

Minimalist mic’ing

Better phase performance

Better imaging

Better audio quality

Better to evaluate mic’s

performance

LCR Mics: Neumann M-150, TLM-170 KM-183Sennheiser MKH-800, MKH-50

KU-100 Stereo “dummy head” AKA

Fritz

Located 6 rows into the house

facing the back of the hall

About 20 foot up in the air

Provides great localization

Rear Channels

Soloist solo out of section

U-87 AI Solo mics

KMS-105 on vocalist

Grace Design custom built

transformer splitter used to feed

house sound system

Solo mics were not used on the

original demo sacd.

Solo Mics

The Count Basie Session


MKH 800Cardiod


M 150Omni > Cardioid


TLM 170Cardioid


MKH 50Hypercardioid


M 147Cardiod


TLM 103Cardiod

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Which ways lead to receptable surround sound results ?

Mixing Techniques

“Dynamik Surround Response”

“DSR”

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DSR can generally be done in 2 ways

1.) Dynamic Response to the music level and the hall

2.) Adding “suprising” Effects

1.)a) Exception

With low levels and / little attacks in the music response from the

hall is extremely low. So adding some artificial reverb might be

helpful.

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DSRLevel

Music Level/Intensity

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DSRLevel

Time

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DSR is meant to be used in a subtle manner, not as an Effect.

Like in Stereo it should support the target to place the listener in a

convincing audio situation.

The Meaning of DSR is to compensate the described problems of

the Surround Sound portion.

DSR should not be noticed as an Effect but should simulate an

“normal” and “attractive” Listening/Surround Situation!

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Too many Surround portions might affect the concentration to the

perception of the Music!

Too many Surround Partials take Concentration away from the

Listener.

This means that in the dynamic Process of the Surround Level,

there should be “Calm Phases” and “Vivid Phases”

“Calm Phases” concentrate more to the music

“Vivid Phases” concentrate more to the sound

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Ususally the Structure of the Music should imply all Aspects and

Parameters that are needed for the DSR Technique.

Dynamics and the general Arrangement should lead the listener

through the Music.

This should usually work parallel to the DSR as well as the general

development of a mix.

THANKS FOR YOUR

INTEREST & PARTICIPATION

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