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Churches of God - Come, let us reason togetherAnother chapter in the continuing saga of whether Romans 16:17 is or is not instruction to the BRETHREN....(Karen Ray) Saturday, 05-Aug-2000 20:03:46

207.142.110.200 writes:

I've posted most of this information on this forum before, but today another chapter has been written (see last quote).

How angry do you think this self-serving manipulation of Romans 16:17 is making God?

The Apostle Paul, Holy Bible, Romans 1:7; 16:17, A.D. 57-58:

"To ALL that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints.... I beseech you, BRETHREN, mark them which cause

divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."

Roderick C. Meredith, Church Government and Church Unity, February 1993:

"Even in His own Church, God allows leading men to turn aside, pervert doctrines, water down scripture and mistreat

fellow Christians. In Rev. 2:2, Jesus told the Ephesian Era: 'I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that

you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found

them liars.'

"Notice that then people 'tested' those who claimed to be 'apostles.' And they found some of those so-called apostles

to be LIARS!"

"[In] Romans 16:17-18it is significant thatwe are warned to 'note those who cause division and offenses

CONTRARY TO THE DOCTRINE WHICH YOU HAVE LEARNED, and avoid them.'

"Is not this [Worldwide Church of God] administration leading us directly 'contrary to the doctrine which you

learned'? Should not we then obey God and avoid these people?

"Do not let humanly devised theories of church government keep you from fully obeying God's Word!"

Dave Pack, "30 Reasons To Follow the Truth," Global Church of God sermon tape, May 15, 1993:

"Romans 16, in verse 17. [Reason] number 11. Let's take another look a whole new fresh look [at a verse] from

the Apostle Paul to brethren in Rome: 'Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences

contrary to the doctrine which you have learned; and avoid them.' The verse that we have often quoted is written to

brethren. Brethren are supposed to mark people who teach contrary to what they've been taught what they've

learned and avoid them. That's instruction to you. Now if you have a faithful ministry and leadership in the

Church, then certainly the ministry may make that decision as well, for the sake of the brethren. But here were the

brethren seeing things being taught that weren't right. They were supposed to make their own decision, not say, well,

I'll wait on the government of God, or God is on His throne, or something else. Isn't that interesting?? It's written to

the brethren.You mark those, which means take note of, don't brand them or anything, but you take note of them,

and you avoid them, because they're teaching doctrines, and offenses, and divisions contrary to the doctrine that we

have been taught."

Gail and Karen Ray, letter to local Global Church of God pastor David Burson, August 3, 1996:

"Dave Pack's disregard for the Biblical principles Dr. Roderick C. Meredith espoused in the first Global Church of

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God booklet ever printed, Church Government and Church Unity (later titled When Should You Follow Church

Government?) and for many things taught to us by Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong has caused the rift between Mr. Pack

and ourselves.... Our main concerns are that Mr. Pack abuses his authority, suppresses the truth, and bears false

witness.... We have written and talked to Dr. Meredith about some of the things Mr. Pack is doing, but he said he was

too busy to deal with it himself. We feel the requirements of Matthew 18:15-17 (at least in the Church's traditional

sense) have been fulfilled and are currently applying Romans 16:17 to the situation."

"The things Mr. Pack is teaching and doing are contrary [to his own 'good words and fair speeches' to prospective

members, and] to the doctrine Mr. Armstrong, Dr. Meredith, and the Bible have taught us, and are causing greatoffense. If all of the things Mr. Pack [really] believes and practices were written up in a church government booklet,

no one who read it would ever come with Global.... We are going to avoid him until he repents of the divisions and

offenses he has caused and publicly apologizes to all parties concerned."

Carl McNair, Global Church of God evangelist, letter to Gail and Karen Ray, August 22, 1996:

"This will acknowledge receipt of your 90-page letter to Mr. David Burson, dated August 3, 1996, of which I just

received a copy."

"You accuse Mr. Pack of being an 'unrepentant minister'.... You then state ... that you 'are going to avoid him until he

repents of the divisions and offenses he has caused and publicly apologizes to all parties concerned'....

"You undoubtedly know that Global, following clear Biblical commands and the long standing practices of the

Church of God, cannot allow its members to engage in 'minister shopping' (electing one minister while avoiding

another), as this clearly would cause divisions. In light of this and your statements quoted above, I have to conclude

that you both have decided to separate yourselves from the fellowship of the Global Church of God."

"If you wish, in the future, to begin again to fellowship with the Global Church of God, please contact at that time

your local minister."

Note: When David Burson was contacted by phone regarding the above letter of disfellowshipment, he said he

agreed with Carl McNair that members could not be allowed to mark people. When it was pointed out to him (again)

that Romans 16:17 was speaking specifically to BRETHREN, not pastors only, he stated that pastors use another

Scripture to mark people, but then could not say what that Scripture was, and said he couldn't look it up because he

didn't have his Bible close at hand.

Gail and Karen Ray, letter to Carl McNair, August 28, 1996:

"If you are correct in your assertion that the members cannot follow and avoid ministers as they see fit, then we had

all better trot back to Worldwide. But you are not correct because Romans 16:17-18 states: 'Now I beseech you,

BRETHREN, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and

avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair

speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.'"

Carl McNair, letter to Gail and Karen Ray, September 16, 1996:

"This will acknowledge receipt of your letter to me, dated August 28, 1996."

"For the record, and so that there is no misunderstanding, we have updated our files and records to reflect the fact

that both of you are no longer members in good standing of the Global Church of God. As stated in my previous

letter, if you wish to again fellowship with us, you need to first contact, at that time, the local minister in your area.

"We do pray that God will lead you to repentance and bring you back to the assembly of His people."

Clo

H

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