Carlson Deposition Redacted

8/6/2019 Carlson Deposition Redacted

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1

1 STATE OF ILLINOIS )) SS.

2 COUNTY OF C O O K )

3 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COOK COUNTY, ILLINOISCOUNTY DEPARTMENT-CHANCERY DIVISION

4EDWARD X. CLINTON, P.C., )

5 )

Plaintiff,)6 )

-vs- ) No. 11 CH 193107 )

KUSPER & RAUCCI CHARTERED, )8 )

Defendant.)9

10 The deposition of DONNA

11 GIANNELI-CARLSON, taken for the purpose of discovery,

12 before Natalie M. Diaz, a Certified Shorthand Reporter

13 within and for the County of Cook and State of

14 Illinois, at 444 North Michigan Avenue, Suite 2600,

15 Chicago, Illinois, commencing on the 1st day of July,

16 A.D., 2011, at the hour of 9:12 a.m.

17

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20


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2

1 PRESENT:

2

3 LAVIN & WALDONBY: MR. DENNIS C. WALDON

4 444 North Michigan AvenueSuite 2600

5 Chicago, Illinois 60611(312) 670-4260

6Appeared on behalf of the Plaintiff;

7

8KUSPER & RAUCCI

9 BY: MR. STEWART T. KUSPER30 North LaSalle Street

10 Suite 3400Chicago, Illinois 60602

11 (312) 332-5000


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12 Appeared on behalf of the Defendant.

13

14

ALSO PRESENT:15Mr. Clinton, Jr.

16--o0o--

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1 I N D E X

2

3

4 WITNESS: PAGE:

5 DONNA GIANNELI-CARLSON,

6 Examination by Mr. Waldon 4

7 Examination by Mr. Kusper 78

8 Further Examination by Mr. Waldon 89

9 PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBITS: PAGE:

10 No. 3 10

11 No. 5 47

12 No. 7 51

13 No. 8 21

14 No. 10 29

15 No. 11 34

16 No. 13 63

17 No. 14 31

18 No. 15 43

19 No. 16 65

20 No. 18 72

21

22 --o0o--

23


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24

4

1 (The witness was duly sworn.)

2 DONNA GIANNELI-CARLSON,

3 called as a witness herein, having been first duly

4 sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

5 E X A M I N A T I O N

6 BY MR. WALDON:

7 Q. Please state your name and address for

8 the record?

9 A. Donna Marie Gianneli-Carlson.

10 Q. Spell it.

11 A. G-i-a-n-n-e-l-i, hyphen, Carlson,

12 C-a-r-l-s-o-n.


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13 Q. And address?

14 A. 3314 North Paris, Chicago, Illinois

15 60634.

16 Q. And is Gianneli-Carlson your married

17 name?

18 A. Gianneli is my maiden name. Carlson is

19 my married name.

20 Q. Have you given a deposition before?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. On how many occasions?

23 A. Probably my ninth.

24 Q. And what types of cases were you deposed

5

1 in?


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2 A. Employment litigation.

3 Q. Have you ever as an individual been a

4 party to a lawsuit?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. How many?

7 A. One.

8 Q. And what was that lawsuit about?

9 A. It was a car accident.

10 Q. Were you the plaintiff or defendant?

11 A. Defendant.

12 Q. Were you deposed in that case?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. In preparation for your deposition this

15 morning did you discuss your testimony with anyone

16 other than your attorney, Mr. Kusper?

17 A. No.

18 Q. In connection with the deposition this

19 morning did you review any documents?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. What did you review?

22 A. Interrogatories, complaint. About it.

23 Q. Could you summarize for the record your

24 education?


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6

1 A. I have a degree in accounting from

2 Southern Illinois.

3 Q. What year?

4 A. Graduated in '72.

5 Q. Any postgraduate education?

6 A. No.

7 Q. What is your -- withdrawn.

8 Did you have any employment prior to

9 your '72 graduation, any full-time employment?

10 A. No. I worked part-time.

11 Q. Okay. Doing what?

12 A. I worked in a department store at the

13 mall, Woodfield Mall, because I was going to school and


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14 working so I lived at home with my parents.

15 Q. Since '72 would you summarize your

16 employment history, please?

17 A. I worked for Leo Burnett Advertising from

18 1975 to 1980 approximately. I worked for Freeborn &

19 Peters from 1982 to 1987. I was with Banta, Cox &

20 Hennessy from 1990 to 2000. I've been with Kusper &

21 Raucci from 2000 to present.

22 MR. KUSPER: You said 2000 to present?

23 THE WITNESS: Right.

24 MR. KUSPER: I'm sorry. I wrote it down

7

1 wrong. I wrote down Banta, Cox '90 to '07.

2 BY MR. WALDON:


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3 Q. What were your job duties at Leo Burnett?

4 A. I was outdoor advertising administrator.

5 Q. What were your duties at Freeborn &

6 Peters?

7 A. I was supervisor of billing.

8 Q. What were your job duties with the firm

9 after that?

10 A. With Banta, cox & Hennessy I was the CFO,

11 basically the accounting officer there.

12 Q. And with Kusper & Raucci --

13 A. I'm the office manager.

14 Q. Let me finish. I was going to say on

15 occasion I may say KRC or K&R.

16 A. That's fine.

17 Q. You've been the office manager since

18 2000?

19 A. Correct.

20 Q. Have your duties remained the same since

21 2000 to the present?

22 A. Basically, yes.

23 Q. All right. Is there any written job

24 description of your duties?


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8

1 A. I don't believe so.

2 Q. Would you describe what your duties are

3 at KRC?

4 A. I run the office. I have a staff of two

5 secretaries, a receptionist. I oversee all the

6 attorneys. We have seven attorneys.

7 Q. Seven attorneys in your firm?

8 A. Kusper & Raucci -- or wait. Let me stop

9 and think for a second.

10 We have seven and I oversee the

11 subtenants.

12 MR. KUSPER: Are you counting Rob, of

13 counsel?

14 THE WITNESS: Yes, of counsel.


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15 BY MR. WALDON:

16 Q. And what were the names of the two

17 secretaries currently?

18 A. Pamela Graniczny. I do not know how to

19 spell that.

20 MR. KUSPER: I think we spelled it

21 yesterday. G-r-a-n-i-c-z-n-y I believe. I can look it

22 up.

23 MR. WALDON: That's all right.

24 THE WITNESS: And Pamela Prokaski.

9

1 MR. KUSPER: P-r-o-k-a-s-k-i.

2 BY MR. WALDON:

3 Q. Who's the receptionist?


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4 A. Maria Gonzalez.

5 Q. How long has she been the receptionist?

6 A. Maria has been with us about a month and

7 a half.

8 Q. Who was her predecessor?

9 A. Her predecessor was Barbara Urbina.

10 Q. Can you spell that?

11 A. U-r-b-i-n-a.

12 MR. KUSPER: I'm sorry. Can I have the

13 last question and answer back.

14 Did you ask who the predecessor was

15 to our current one?

16 MR. WALDON: Yes.

17 THE WITNESS: Cathy Kirkpatrick. I'm

18 sorry.

19 BY MR. WALDON:

20 Q. And for what period of time was she the

21 receptionist ballpark?

22 A. Cathy?

23 Q. Right.

24 A. Cathy was with us about three years but


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10

1 she was only the receptionist for about a year and a

2 half.

3 Q. And one more prior receptionist before

4 Cathy?

5 A. That would be Barbara Urbana.

6 Q. And for how long was Barbara Urbana the

7 receptionist?

8 A. She was with us about two years.

9 Q. Do you recall that the Clinton firm moved

10 in in March of 2009?

11 A. February 28th of 2009.

12 Q. All right. What who was the receptionist

13 at that period of time?

14 A. I believe it was Cathy.

15 MR. KUSPER: Off the record for a second.


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16 (Whereupon, a discussion was held off

17 the record.)

18 (WHEREUPON, A DOCUMENT WAS MARKED

19 DEPOSITION EXHIBIT NO. 3

20 FOR IDENTIFICATION AS OF 7/1/11.)

21 BY MR. KUSPER:

22 Q. Showing you what has been marked

23 Plaintiff's Exhibit 3, do you recognize that as the

24 Clinton firm's sublease?

11

1 A. Yeah, this is their lease.

2 Q. Okay. Prior to the signing of that lease

3 some questions. What was your first contact with

4 anyone from the Clinton firm about obtaining the


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5 sublease?

6 A. We received a call. We had an ad in the

7 paper for space and I received a call from Mary Winch

8 regarding what we had available.

9 Q. Okay. And --

10 A. That was back in I would say early --

11 well, early to mid February 2009.

12 Q. And what was the content or discussion or

13 what was available to the extent you recall?

14 A. Basically she told me a little bit about

15 their situation and where they currently were and I

16 told her what we had available and she wanted to come

17 over immediately because I told her I had other people

18 coming to looking at the space, if they were really

19 interested I needed her to come over as soon as

20 possible. I believe she came over about an hour later.

21 Q. Okay. And what transpired when she came

22 over?

23 A. She asked me what we had and I basically

24 showed her. She was looking for two offices next to


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12

1 each other together and she wanted an adjacent

2 secretarial space right outside the door of the two

3 offices. I did not have that available. I had another

4 office one door down, a single office, and I had

5 another single office on the kitchen side of the suite.

6 I showed her everything I had and she said well, was

7 there any way of getting two offices together. I told

8 her I need to talk to Mr. Kusper, we had a situation

9 that might allow two offices to be together.

10 Q. Mr. Kusper, that's Stanley T. Kusper,

11 Jr.; is that correct?

12 A. Correct, yes.

13 Q. Okay. Any other discussion that you

14 recall?

15 A. I took her through the suite. I showed

16 her the, you know, the facilities of what we have there


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17 and we discussed rent a little bit and I told her the

18 office I was able to give her did have another

19 attorney's furniture but that if she needed furniture

20 they were free to use it at the time they rented the

21 office. I didn't go too much further with her until I

22 could find out if I could make a second office

23 available because she needed two offices next to each

24 other. It was very important.

13

1 Q. Approximately how long was this visit?

2 A. About a half hour.

3 Q. Did you show her the conference rooms in

4 the suite?

5 A. I showed her the entire suite. We have


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6 two conference rooms, kitchen. We have a bar area. We

7 have two inside bathrooms. We have storage facilities,

8 FAX machine, copy machine area. I kind of went through

9 the entire suite with her.

10 Q. And the inside bathrooms and the

11 conference rooms and the kitchen and so forth, that was

12 going to be available to them if they subleased some

13 space; is that correct?

14 A. They had permission to use it. It was

15 there. In other words, it wasn't part of the lease.

16 It was -- I show everything in the suite.

17 Q. What happened next?

18 A. I told her I would talk to Mr. Kusper and

19 to give me a call. I did talk to Mr. Kusper. I called

20 her back and told her there was a possibility I would

21 be able to get a second office for her right next door

22 to the one I showed her. She came back over that

23 afternoon and I was able to show her the second office

24 and she said fine, that was okay, that she would talk


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14

1 to her parties involved and get back to me as soon as

2 she could.

3 Q. How long was that second visit?

4 A. No more than about ten minutes.

5 Q. Okay. In either of those first two

6 visits was there any discussion about telephone usage

7 or how that would work?

8 A. We talked about the phone and the fact

9 that our suite is set up -- we have a front desk

10 receptionist and all our phones are programmed into the

11 front desk receptionist's area. We didn't really talk

12 too much more. She didn't ask me anything outside of

13 that. She just wanted to know, you know, how it was.

14 I say we would ring your lines in, we have programmers

15 who program from the riser room to the suite and

16 everything would be programmed and there would be, you

17 know, a charge for it. There is a one-time setup


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18 charge and then basically the maintaining of the

19 phones.

20 Q. Then what happened next after her second

21 visit?

22 A. After her second visit I think she called

23 me later that afternoon and wanted to know if she could

24 bring Mr. Clinton over and I said yeah. And she said

15

1 she also had some other people who were interested in

2 space. Evidently there was an issued with where they

3 currently were and they needed to get out very quickly

4 because this sort of was all very fast, done very

5 quickly and I said yeah, I had two more offices

6 available, you know, if she wanted to bring some other


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7 people over, that was fine. I believe a Mr. Kurtis

8 Ross came back later that afternoon and a Jeffrey

9 Antinelli who are both current tenants with us.

10 Q. And did any Mr. Clinton come over that

11 day or the next day to look at the space?

12 A. I don't recall when Mr. Clinton came

13 over. I don't believe it was that day.

14 Q. Is that Mr. Clinton, Jr.?

15 A. Mr. Clinton, Jr.

16 Q. And was Mary Winch there as well when

17 Mr. Clinton came over?

18 MR. KUSPER: Object to the form of the

19 question. It seems to mischaracterize her prior

20 testimony. You haven't established when he came over I

21 believe.

22 BY MR. WALDON:

23 Q. Do you recall when he came over?

24 A. It may have been a few days later. I


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16

1 believe it was on the 20th of February that he came

2 over.

3 Q. This is Mr. Clinton, Jr.?

4 A. Mr. Clinton, Jr.

5 Q. Did you speak with him then?

6 A. Yes. He came in. I showed him the

7 suite, showed him the two offices that I was -- had

8 available and the secretarial station. Again, I showed

9 him the entire suite. I always show the entire suite

10 and what is available and what is there.

11 We talked a little bit about a lease

12 and I said well, I would get the lease together if they

13 were interested in the suite and I don't recall if it

14 was him or Mary Winch that came back later that

15 afternoon. I had a completed lease which Stan Kusper,

16 III had prepared. I believe Mary came back by herself

17 later that afternoon. She took the lease with her and

18 brought it back signed with a check for the security


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19 deposit.

20 Q. Getting being to Mr. Clinton, Jr.'s

21 visit, how long was he there approximately?

22 A. Ten minutes.

23 Q. Did Mr. Clinton, Sr. come over to view

24 the premises prior to the signing of the sublease?

17

1 A. No.

2 Q. Did you speak with Stanley Kusper, III

3 about the sublease?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Exhibit 3?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. And what was the -- what was said between


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8 you and Mr. Kusper, III with regard to the lease?

9 A. I gave him the terms, when the lease

10 would start, what the yearly rate would be for the

11 offices. We discussed -- normally we do two-year

12 leases. We don't usually do a three-year lease. This

13 was an exception. We did a three-year lease this time.

14 Basically that's all Mr. Kusper and I usually do. I am

15 not an attorney. I do not prepare the lease. I just

16 basically give him the numbers and the dates.

17 Q. In any of your discussions with Mary

18 Winch or Mr. Clinton, Jr. prior to the signing of the

19 sublease did you say anything about any restrictions on

20 the use of the conference rooms?

21 A. I don't quite -- restrictions as far as

22 what?

23 Q. How it can be used, who can use it, when

24 it can be used.

18


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1 A. The conference room needs to be booked

2 out. We have 21 subtenants so we have to share. We

3 have two conference rooms. They need to be booked out.

4 Q. By booked out, explain what that is.

5 A. The person --

6 MR. KUSPER: Let me stop you. You're

7 going too fast. You're talking over his question

8 because you know what he's going to say. You need to

9 slow down and let him finish his question and then give

10 your answer so we have a clean record and she's not

11 upset.

12 THE WITNESS: Okay. We have a book that

13 you schedule. In other words, you call the person in

14 charge of the book, which happens to be me right now,

15 and tell me you want the conference room from 10:00 to

16 11:00. I will book it out then and you are free to use

17 the conference room from 10:00 to 11:00. This is not

18 to have four people trying to use one conference room.

19 BY MR. WALDON:


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20 Q. Was this explained to Mary Winch and/or

21 Mr. Clinton, Jr. at the --

22 A. Yes.

23 MR. KUSPER: Again, you cut him off.

24 You've got to let him ask the question.

19

1 BY MR. WALDON:

2 Q. Anything else that you discussed with

3 Mary Winch or Mr. Clinton, Jr. with regard to the

4 conference rooms that you can recall?

5 MR. KUSPER: I object to the form of the

6 question. Time. Before they signed the lease, after

7 they signed the lease?

8 MR. WALDON: Clearly I'm asking about


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9 prior to signing the lease and the same visits we've

10 been talking about for the last 20 minutes.

11 MR. KUSPER: I'd appreciate if you say

12 that to make it clear because it's not.

13 BY MR. WALDON:

14 Q. Did you understand that?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Anything else that was discussed prior to

17 signing the lease with Mary Winch or Mr. Clinton, Jr.

18 with regard to the conference rooms?

19 MR. KUSPER: Thank you.

20 THE WITNESS: No.

21 BY MR. WALDON:

22 Q. Subsequent to the signing of Plaintiff's

23 Exhibit 3 the Clinton firm moved into the space; is

24 that correct?

20


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1 A. The Clinton firm moved into the firm

2 after they signed the lease and gave me a security

3 deposit.

4 Q. Right.

5 A. Correct.

6 Q. At some point in 2009 were restrictions

7 placed by KRC on the use of the internal bathrooms?


9 question. Vague and ambiguous.

10 If you understand, you may answer.

11 MR. WALDON: Go ahead.

12 MR. KUSPER: Subject to my objections if

13 you understand the question you may answer. My

14 objections are for the record.

15 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat your

16 question.

17 MR. WALDON: Read back the question,

18 please.

19 (Whereupon, the record was read by

20 the court reporter.)


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21 THE WITNESS: Yes.

22 MR. WALDON: Would you mark this, please,

23 as Plaintiff's Exhibit 8.

24

21

1 (A DOCUMENT WAS MARKED FOR

2 IDENTIFICATION AS DEPOSITION EXHIBIT

3 NO. 8.)

4 BY MR. WALDON:

5 Q. Can you please take a look at Plaintiff's

6 Exhibit 8 and tell me if you recognize this memorandum

7 from Stanley T. Kusper, Jr.?

8 A. Yes, I do.

9 Q. What is your recollection as to the first


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10 incident or occurrence that led to the circulation of

11 this memoranda?


13 question.

14 If you understand, you can answer.

15 THE WITNESS: I understand the question.

16 This memo happened due to an

17 occurrence that was brought to my attention earlier in

18 the month regarding urine on the floor in the

19 bathrooms, in particular the large bathroom. I was

20 informed in August. I had been out of the office May

21 and June and parts of July due to open heart surgery so

22 it was only brought to my attention in August when I

23 returned.

24

22


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1 BY MR. WALDON:

2 Q. And who brought it to your attention and

3 what did that person say?

4 A. Our secretary, Pamela Graniczny. She had

5 informed me that our receptionist, Barbara Urbina, had

6 almost slipped and fell in the bathroom getting up and

7 that she on several occasions had slipped on urine in

8 the bathroom.

9 Q. Barbara did?

10 A. Pamela did.

11 Q. Pamela did.

12 A. She informed me --

13 Q. Excuse me. Just a second.

14 MR. KUSPER: Let her finish her answer.

15 If you were finished with your answer, that's fine but

16 if you have something else --

17 MR. WALDON: She's giving a narrative. I

18 have a lot of questions, Mr. Kusper,

19 MR. KUSPER: You know what? You don't

20 have the right to ask an open-ended question and then

21 instruct the witness she can't say her complete answers


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22 and you have some ambiguous record. You don't have

23 that right. She has the right to say what she wants.

24 Stop trying to be obstructionist.

23

1 MR. WALDON: You are the most

2 obstructionist attorney I've seen in 38 years.

3 BY MR. WALDON:

4 Q. Who is Barbara Urbina? I didn't recall

5 you mentioning her as the receptionist or Urbina?

6 A. Urbina.

7 Q. How do you spell that?

8 A. I believe it's U-r-b-i-n-a.

9 Q. U-r -- say again --

10 A. B-i-n-a, Urbina.


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11 Q. Urbina, okay.

12 So Pamela G. reported to you that

13 Barbara Urbina, the receptionist did you say, almost

14 slipped and fell?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And when did that occur as was reported

17 to you?

18 A. When did she almost slip and fall?

19 Q. Right?

20 A. I have no idea.

21 Q. Okay. without an exact date but is it

22 your recollection that Pamela G. Reported it to you in

23 August as having recently happened or perhaps happened

24 when you were out of the office for that May, June and

24


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1 early July period, if you recall?

2 A. I don't recall.

3 Q. And did you say that Pamela G. reported

4 to you that Pamela G. slipped or something with regard

5 to the --

6 A. She had walked into it and almost --

7 yeah, she slipped a little.

8 Q. When this was reported to you by Pamela

9 G. what, if anything, next did you do?

10 A. I went into speak to Mr. Kusper, Jr.

11 Q. And what was the content of that

12 discussion?

13 A. I told him what Pam had reported to me

14 and we were both concerned, No. 1, for the safety,

15 No. 2, for the hygienic reasons and Mr. Kusper wanted

16 to approach another person in the office to try and

17 tactfully do something about the problem before we did

18 something overall that was going to affect everybody.

19 So after he and I discussed it he did what he did.

20 Q. And do you know what he did?

21 A. I believe he talked to one of the other

22 attorneys in the office trying to sort of figure a way


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23 to tactfully approach it.

24 Q. Tactfully approach what?

25

1 A. Our suspicions as far as to who was

2 responsible for the urine.

3 Q. What were your suspicions?

4 A. Well, we felt it was Mr. Clinton, Sr. as

5 we had never had a problem like this prior to his being

6 in the suite.

7 Q. Anything else besides him not -- besides

8 it not having happened prior to him being in the suite?

9 A. No.

10 Q. What did Mr. Kusper do to the extent that

11 you know --


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12 A. I believe he went --

13 Q. -- in connection with this?

14 A. Spoke to one of the other attorneys to

15 speak either to Mr. Clinton, Jr. regarding the matter

16 rather than to approach Mr. Senior directly.

17 Q. Do you know which attorney he spoke to?

18 A. I believe it was Curtis Ross.

19 Q. Did Mr. Kusper talk to you after he spoke

20 to Curtis Ross?

21 A. No.

22 Q. Okay. What, if anything, happened in

23 connection with this issue after --

24 A. Mr. Kusper and I had a conversation --

26


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1 MR. KUSPER: Excuse me. You need to let

2 him finish his questions so you have a clear record and

3 then answer. Go ahead.

4 THE WITNESS: Mr. Kusper and I had a

5 conversation maybe about a week later and he made the

6 decision that we needed to protect all of the

7 subtenants and decided we needed to put locks on the

8 doors and we went about it.

9 BY MR. WALDON:

10 Q. And then did this memo, Plaintiff's

11 Exhibit 8, follow and was circulated to the everyone in

12 the suite?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Did you yourself talk to either

15 Mr. Clinton, Jr. or Mr. Clinton, Sr. about your

16 suspicions?

17 A. No.

18 Q. Did Mr. Kusper, Stanley T. Kusper, Jr.,

19 talk to Mr. Clinton, Jr. or Mr. Senior about the

20 suspicions that you just mentioned?

21 A. I don't know.

22 Q. Do you know if Pamela G. talked to

23 Mr. Clinton, Jr. or Senior --


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24 A. I don't know.

27

1 Q. -- about this issue?

2 With regard to the almost slipping

3 and falling of Barbara Urbina and Pamela G. do you

4 recall when they reported to you if they stated the

5 time of day each of those things may have happened?


7 Q. Okay. The second paragraph of Exhibit 8

8 states -- it refers to keys being available and those

9 are for bathroom facilities outside Suite 3400; is that

10 correct?

11 A. Correct.

12 Q. And were those bathroom facilities


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13 outside Suite 3400 available to be used by these keys

14 after 5:00 p.m. on weekdays?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Would these facilities be open by the use

17 of these keys on weekends?

18 A. I do not believe the keys were available

19 over the weekends.

20 Q. Well, I mean not be available. I mean

21 would they work is my question.

22 A. Yeah. I mean, yes, they would work.

23 Q. With regard to the report you received

24 about Barbara almost slipping and falling, were there

28

1 any documents, any notes, any memos with regard to that


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2 that you're aware of?

3 A. No, not that I'm aware of.

4 Q. Same question with regard to Pamela G.

5 and her slippage. Any notes, memos, e-mails back and

6 forth that you know of?

7 A. Not that I'm aware of.

8 Q. Did the Clinton firm object to the new

9 policy as reflected in Plaintiff's Exhibit A?


11 question. I believe it's vague and ambiguous.

12 If you understand it, you may answer.

13 THE WITNESS: No.

14 MR. WALDON: Let me take a 22-second

15 break. I thought I had a document here and I don't.

16 Be right back.

17 MR. KUSPER: That's fine.

18 (Whereupon, a recess was taken from

19 9:20 to 9:21.)

20 BY MR. WALDON:

21 Q. I'm going to show you a document which

22 was marked yesterday previously as Plaintiff's Exhibit

23 9, September 4, 2009 letter to Mr. Kusper, Jr. from

24 Mr. Clinton, Jr. Did you ever see this letter?


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29

1 A. I don't recall seeing this letter.

2 Q. And then I take it -- well, strike that.

3 Did you ever have any discussions

4 with Mr. Kusper, Jr. about his receipt of a letter from

5 the Clinton firm objecting to the August 25th memo?

6 A. No, we never discussed anything.

7 Q. Let me show you what was -- mark this as

8 Plaintiff's Exhibit 10.



11 NO. 10.)

12 BY MR. WALDON:

13 Q. This is marked Plaintiff's Exhibit 10


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14 used yesterday. Did you ever see this document?

15 A. No, I've never seen this one.

16 Q. In approximately July of 2010 did the

17 management of 30 North LaSalle renovate the outside

18 bathrooms on the 34th floor? Do you recall that?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And do you recall how long that

21 renovation took and how long the outside bathrooms in

22 the 34th floor were unavailable approximately?

23 A. Approximately about a week.

24 Q. Okay. And did you or anyone else at KRC

30

1 have any communications with the subtenants about that

2 situation?


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4 Q. During the time that the outside

5 bathrooms were being renovated what washroom facilities

6 were available for your subtenants?

7 A. The management company made available the

8 bathrooms on 32. They gave us keys, which were up at

9 the front reception area, which people could use to use

10 the facilities on 32.

11 Q. And was there any memo, that you recall,

12 that went from KRC to the subtenants on that issue

13 saying, you know, 32 is now available?


15 Q. Were subtenants -- well, how were

16 subtenants informed that while this renovation was

17 going on on 34 they could use 32?

18 A. I believe the way it was handled I had --

19 I had gotten an e-mail from the building and I had

20 informed the receptionist up front that we were going

21 to be getting keys to 32 and if anyone needed to use

22 the facilities they would have to go down to 32. It

23 was only supposed to be for a day or two at first and

24 then it ended up turning out to be a week. I think the


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31

1 renovations went a little slower than they thought but

2 they did leave the keys available to everyone.

3 Q. I'm sorry. How was that communicated to

4 the subtenants in Suite 3400?

5 A. The receptionist up front when people

6 came to her for the keys.

7 Q. Okay. And could your subtenants during

8 this period get to the 32nd floor after 5:00 p.m.?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And do you recall if the approximate week

11 period that the renovations took place included a

12 weekend?


14 MR. WALDON: Let me mark this as


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18 NO. 14.)

19 BY MR. WALDON:

20 Q. Please take a look at what has been

21 marked Plaintiff's Exhibit 14, a document dated July

22 29, 2010 from Mr. Clinton to the department of general

23 services at 30 North LaSalle. Tell me if you have ever

24 seen this document before.

32

1 A. I've never -- I haven't seen this

2 document.

3 Q. If you would look at it in the second


47/138

4 paragraph, first sentence says that in connection with

5 the renovation the subtenants were advised that they

6 could use the washroom on the 32nd floor or make use of

7 the Starbuck's or other restaurant facilities in the

8 building. Is that an accurate statement?

9 A. No.

10 Q. What's inaccurate about it?

11 A. They were advised they could use the

12 washroom on the 32nd floor. There was never anything

13 mentioned about Starbuck's or restaurant facilities in

14 the building.

15 Q. The next sentence says: The subtenants

16 would not have access to the 32nd floor after 5:00 p.m.

17 A. I don't know where that came from.

18 Q. That is not true to your knowledge?

19 A. To my knowledge, no.

20 Q. And the next sentence says that the

21 elevators do not stop on the 32nd floor after 6:00 p.m.

22 without a special-coded key card. Is that true?

23 A. The elevators were redone to accommodate

24 people going down to the 32nd floor.


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33

1 Q. During this time period?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Were you asked by any subtenant during

4 this renovation period to open up the internal

5 bathrooms for use by the subtenants?


7 Q. If you look at the last paragraph on that

8 first page on the last sentence, it says that the

9 Kusper representative said that no, that cannot be

10 done, that those internal washrooms would remain

11 locked.

12 MR. KUSPER: Where is that?

13 MR. WALDON: Last sentence on the first

14 page.

15 BY MR. WALDON:


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16 Q. Do you recall being asked that and saying

17 that?

18 A. No, I don't recall being asked.

19 Q. Do you recall any discussions with Pamela

20 G. or the receptionist or anyone else about subtenants

21 asking if the internal bathrooms could be unlocked for

22 this renovation period?


24 MR. WALDON: Mark this, please, as

34




4 NO. 11.)


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5 BY MR. WALDON:

6 Q. Please take a look at Plaintiff's Exhibit

7 11. Do you recall seeing this document on or about

8 April 5, 2011?

9 A. Yes, I've seen this document.

10 Q. What is your first recollection of

11 anything that occurred in the large conference room?

12 Do you call the large conference room the den?

13 A. Correct.

14 Q. What did you recall first hearing or

15 seeing about the gouge or scratch in the table in the

16 den that's mentioned in this memorandum?

17 A. I went into the den a little before noon

18 and noticed that there was a large gouge and a large

19 scratch in the table. I then went to Mr. Stuart Kusper

20 and informed him of what I saw and he came into the den

21 with me and we both observed it.

22 Q. Did you recall what date that was?

23 MR. KUSPER: I'm sorry. I didn't hear

24 that.


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35

1 THE WITNESS: I didn't hear it either.

2 BY MR. WALDON:

3 Q. Do you recall what date that was?

4 A. No, I don't recall.

5 Q. This memo was April 5th. Is it the same

6 day do you think, a day or two before? Does that help

7 you refresh your recollection?

8 A. No. I don't recall.

9 Q. Okay. And what did you and Mr. Kusper

10 discuss, if anything, when he came into the den and saw

11 that?

12 MR. KUSPER: I'm sorry. I've got to

13 object just to make sure you're talking about Stuart

14 Kusper.

15 BY MR. WALDON:

16 Q. Who did you say you went to see and


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17 brought in with you to look at the conference room --

18 conference room table?

19 A. Stuart Kusper.

20 MR. WALDON: I'm just following up on

21 that.

22 MR. KUSPER: I know you are. I just want

23 the record clear because there's three different

24 Kuspers here. That's all, Dennis. I'm not trying to

36

1 be obstructionist.

2 BY MR. WALDON:

3 Q. What did you and Mr. Kusper, Jr. say, if

4 anything?

5 MR. KUSPER: you just did it. You said


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6 Kusper, Jr. You mean Stuart Kusper.

7 BY MR. WALDON:

8 Q. Who did you -- when you saw the gouge,

9 who did you go see?

10 A. Stuart Kusper.

11 Q. Okay. And he came in with you?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And what did you two discuss, if

14 anything, at that time?

15 A. our shock at the table and the two -- the

16 two -- the gouge and the scratch in it.

17 Q. And anything else discussed at that time

18 as to how it may have happened or who or when or

19 anything else?


21 Q. Okay. What happened next in connection

22 with that incident?

23 A. Mr. Kusper was going to address the issue

24 with his father, Stanley Kusper, Jr.


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37

1 Q. And did he?

2 A. As far as I know, yes.

3 Q. All right. And was anything reported to

4 you about what they discussed?

5 A. No.

6 Q. What happened next with regard to the

7 gouge on the table?

8 A. I believe this memo.

9 Q. This memo is from Mr. Kusper, Jr.,

10 correct?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. All right. Did you see this memo before

13 it was distributed?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Did you have any discussion with any

16 Mr. Kusper about the content of this memo before it

17 went out?


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18 A. No.

19 Q. Did Pamela G. have any connection or

20 involvement in reviewing this gouge on the table?

21 A. I don't know.

22 Q. Did you have any opinion or thought as to

23 how it may have happened or who may have done it?


38

1 question. It's vague and ambiguous.


3 THE WITNESS: I don't really understand.

4 I don't really understand the question.


56/138

... Redacted

22 Q. Are you aware since the Clinton firm

23 moved into 3400 of any damage that they caused to any

24 conference room table --

40

1 A. No.

2 Q. -- in Suite 3400?

3 A. I'm not aware of any.

4 Q. After the August -- or I'm sorry -- April

5 5th memo, Plaintiff Exhibit 11, was circulated did any

6 subtenants object to the new procedures set forth here?


8 question. I think it's vague.



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10 THE WITNESS: I don't really understand.

11 I mean, no, I don't really understand it.

12 BY MR. WALDON:

13 Q. In the second paragraph in the second

14 sentence it says: When the table is returned the den

15 will be secured with locks and no one will be permitted

16 to use the den under any circumstances except by

17 reservation. The table will be inspected for damage

18 after each use of the den. Do you see those two

19 sentences?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Did any subtenant object to either of

22 those two sentences after this memorandum was

23 distributed to the subtenants of Suite 3400?

24 A. I don't know.

41


58/138

1 Q. Following the circulation of this

2 memorandum were these procedures followed as set forth

3 in those two sentences I just quoted?


5 question. I think it's vague.


7 THE WITNESS: No.

8 MR. WALDON: Can I get the last question

9 and answer, please.

10 (Whereupon, the record was read by the

11 court reporter.)

12 BY MR. WALDON:

13 Q. So the statement that no one will be

14 permitted to use the den except by reservation and the

15 den will be inspected for damage after each use of the

16 den, that didn't happen after April 5, 2011?

17 A. It didn't happen right away, no. It took

18 a little while to get the locks on the den. We still

19 made the den available. The table was again removed.

20 Q. It had been fixed?

21 A. Fixed.


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22 Q. Then it came back?

23 A. It came back.

24 Q. When it came back were the locks on the

42

1 den?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Okay. And after that were the procedures

4 outlined in the two sentences I quoted followed?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And did you state that no subtenants

7 objected to these procedures --


9 Q. -- that you recall?

10 Okay. Did another memo where --


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11 where -- well, strike that.

12 The second sentence that I quoted,

13 the one that says the table will be inspected for

14 damage after each use of the den, do you see that

15 sentence?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. When was the table inspected after the

18 use of the den?

19 A. It -- what timeframe, is that what you're

20 asking me?

21 Q. Right.

22 A. Someone could use the den from 11:00 to

23 12:00. I might not get in there till 12:30 to look at

24 it. I mean, I'm not standing outside waiting for

43


61/138

1 people to come and go.

2 Q. Well, was any memo circulated that people

3 using the den could not leave until that inspection had

4 taken place?

5 A. Not to my knowledge, no.

6 Q. Did you ever tell any subtenant that

7 those using the den could not leave until the

8 inspection had been completed?

9 A. No.

10 Q. Do you know if anyone else besides you at

11 KRC told any subtenant that they could not leave until

12 inspection was made?

13 A. Nobody I'm aware of.

14 MR. WALDON: Please mark this as




18 NO. 15.)

19 BY MR. WALDON:

20 Q. Please review what has been marked as

21 Plaintiff's Exhibit 15 and tell me if you are familiar

22 with that document.


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23 A. I'm familiar with this document.

24 Q. It's a memo that you sent to the suite on

44

1 or about April 9th, 2009; is that correct?

2 A. Correct.

3 Q. What, if you recall, prompted your

4 sending of this memorandum?

5 A. Well, as the memo states, it was reported

6 to me that there were children in the suite over the

7 weekend and it was causing a lot of interruption and a

8 lot of chaos for other attorneys who were there to

9 work.

10 Q. And who reported that to you?

11 A. Two of our subtenants.


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12 Q. Who?

13 A. David Stringer and Hector Morales.

14 Q. And do you recall what weekend --

15 withdrawn.

16 Did they report to you about this

17 happening on -- both of them on the same weekend?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Okay. Do you recall when that weekend

20 was?

21 A. Probably shortly before I wrote the memo.

22 I don't know what day April 9th, 2009 was, if it was a

23 Monday or Tuesday.

24 Q. Did -- is it Springer?

45


64/138

1 A. Stringer, S-t-r-i-n-g-e-r.

2 Q. Stringer?

3 A. Stringer.

4 Q. Couldn't read my writing.

5 MR. KUSPER: His name is on one of the

6 sample subleases too.

7 BY MR. WALDON:

8 Q. Did Mr. Stringer or Mr. Morales report to

9 you whose children were there?

10 A. I believe they thought it was

11 Mr. Clinton, Jr.'s children.

12 Q. And what details, if any, did they give?

13 A. That they were running uncontrollably

14 around the suite in and out of the secretarial cubes,

15 in and out of offices, just being children.

16 Q. How many?


18 Q. Did you speak with Mr. Clinton, Jr.

19 about that issue before sending this memo?

20 A. No, I did not.

21 Q. Why not?

22 A. I sent the memo out as a general memo to

23 all subtenants. We had a lot of new subtenants that


65/138

24 had moved in with the Clintons at the same time.

46

1 Q. My question was why didn't you talk to

2 Mr. Clinton, Jr. about it?

3 MR. KUSPER: Objection. Asked and

4 answered.

5 MR. WALDON: No, she didn't.

6 MR. KUSPER: Yes, she did. You may

7 answer again if you'd like.

8 THE WITNESS: I felt it was something I

9 wanted to handle as a memo to the suite, not to any one

10 person in particular. I wasn't singling anybody out

11 feeling it could be handled this way rather than

12 singling somebody out.


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13 BY MR. WALDON:

14 Q. Well, an alternative to singling someone

15 out in writing in a memorandum to the whole suite would

16 be to talk to Mr. Clinton, Jr.; is that correct?

17 MR. KUSPER: Objection. You're getting

18 argumentative now.

19 If you understand the question, you

20 may answer.

21 THE WITNESS: No.

22 MR. WALDON: Nine hours of your arguments

23 the other day.

24 MR. KUSPER: You picked them.

47

1 MR. WALDON: Read back the question,


67/138

2 please.

3 (Whereupon, the record was read by the

4 court reporter.)

5 BY MR. WALDON:

6 Q. In July of 2009 do you recall that there

7 was a birthday cake in the suite for Mr. Clinton, Sr.?

8 A. Yes, I do.

9 MR. KUSPER: If you're switching can we

10 take a five-minute break?

11 MR. KUSPER: Sure.


13 9:44 to 9:48.

14 BY MR. WALDON:

15 Q. What do you recall about that occurrence?

16 MR. KUSPER: Objection to the form of the

17 question. It's very vague. If you understand, you can

18 answer.

19 THE WITNESS: I don't understand.

20 MR. WALDON: Will you mark this

21 Plaintiff's Exhibit 5, please.



24 No. 5.)


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48

1 BY MR. WALDON:

2 Q. Do you recall a birthday cake being in

3 the office near Mr. Clinton, Sr.'s office?

4 A. I recall a cake being on Mary's counter.

5 Q. Do you recall an issue that developed

6 with regard to crumbs?

7 A. I remember an issue that developed

8 regarding a good portion of the cake being on the

9 floor.

10 Q. And what memory do you have of that

11 event?

12 A. I saw it.

13 Q. What did you see?


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14 A. I saw the cake -- part of the cake on the

15 floor, part of the cake on the counter, part of the

16 cake all over the secretarial cube.

17 Q. And what, if anything, did you say to

18 anybody about that?

19 A. I told Mary that she needs to review the

20 lease as far as food goes because we ask people to

21 please eat in the kitchen and not to have food at the

22 secretarial cubes.

23 Q. What, if anything, did -- this is Mary

24 Winch?

49

1 A. Mary Winch.

2 Q. What, if anything, did Mary say in


70/138

3 response?

4 A. I don't believe she said anything. She

5 just sort of looked at me and walked away.

6 Q. And in connection with that conversation

7 and your conversation with her about the cake on the

8 floor, what, if anything, happened next to the best of

9 your recollection?

10 A. I believe she moved the cake or she

11 picked up what was there. That's all I'm aware of.

12 Q. All right. And it was basically cleaned

13 up; is that right?

14 A. Housekeeping cleaned it that evening.

15 Q. Was the cake moved away from the

16 secretarial --

17 A. I don't know where the cake was moved to.

18 I didn't see anybody --

19 Q. I didn't ask you where it was moved to.

20 I said was it moved away.

21 MR. KUSPER: Object to what you're doing.

22 You cut her off then you started raising your voice to

23 her. It's argumentative. It's improper. Let her

24 finish her answer and then you may ask your --


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50

1 MR. WALDON: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2 MR. KUSPER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Follow

3 the right procedure.

4 MR. WALDON: Same as you do.

5 BY MR. WALDON:

6 Q. Was the cake removed, if you know?

7 A. I don't know.

8 Q. You don't know, okay.

9 Do you know if anything was cleaned

10 up before housekeeping came in that night?

11 A. Very little.

12 Q. How do you know?

13 A. I came back through the area again before

14 I left that evening because I had to inform


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15 housekeeping that we had this situation to deal with.

16 Q. Showing you what has previously been

17 marked Plaintiff's Exhibit 5, is that a letter you

18 wrote to Mr. Clinton, Jr.?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. On or about July 14, 2009?

21 A. Yes, it is.

22 Q. Does this relate to the cake issue that

23 we've just been discussing?

24 A. Yes, it does.

51

1 MR. WALDON: Would you mark this as


3 (WHEREUPON, A DOCUMENT WAS FOR MARKED


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4 DEPOSITION EXHIBIT NO. 7

5 FOR IDENTIFICATION AS OF 7/1/11.)

6 BY MR. WALDON:

7 Q. Showing you Plaintiff's Exhibit 7, a

8 memorandum to Mr. Kusper, Jr., Mr. Clinton, Jr., do you

9 recall seeing this on or about the date it bears,

10 August 5, 2009?

11 A. I don't recall seeing this memo.

12 Q. In the second to last paragraph

13 Mr. Clinton, Jr. says: When I learned of this I

14 removed the cake immediately and made sure that no

15 other offending items would be left out. Do you know

16 if that is an accurate statement or not one way or the

17 other?


19 Q. Why do you not believe that's accurate?

20 A. If he had removed it I don't think we

21 would have had the remnants of the cake there.

22 Q. Well, the sentence above it says: The

23 office manager complained that certain crumbs had been

24 left out and when he learned of it he removed the cake


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52

1 immediately.

2 A. Those are his words. I mean, I haven't

3 seen this memo.

4 Q. I'm asking you if those are accurate

5 statements --


7 Q. -- to the best of your knowledge.


9 Q. Why do you not believe that the

10 statements are accurate?

11 A. As I said, because I still saw remnants

12 of the cake there.

13 Q. When?

14 A. Probably about a half hour after I

15 initially saw it.


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16 Q. And what time of day was it?


18 Q. Okay. What are the procedures in Suite

19 3400 with regard to -- let me put these over here --

20 with regard to incoming mail and how it is distributed

21 to the subtenants of Suite 3400?

22 A. The mail is delivered downstairs to the

23 mailroom.

24 Q. Downstairs?

53

1 A. In the building.

2 MR. KUSPER: Please let her finish and

3 then you can ask your follow-up.

4 Go ahead.


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5 THE WITNESS: We have a mailroom at

6 30 North LaSalle in the building. It's on the ground

7 level. It's delivered there. Mail can come anywhere

8 from 10:00 in the morning till after 5 o'clock. Myself

9 occasionally, usually Stan Kusper, III, will go down

10 and get the mail.

11 Q. You have to go down and get it?

12 A. Yes, we do.

13 Q. Okay.

14 A. And we bring it up to the suite and

15 distribute it.

16 Q. Does the first-floor room call you when

17 it's ready or when it's arrived?

18 A. No.

19 Q. How do you or the Third know when to go

20 down?

21 A. We just go down periodically and check.

22 Q. Okay. And once the mail is brought up to

23 the 34th floor or Suite 3400 where does it go? I

24 presume it's distributed, divided up.


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54

1 A. The mail is sorted and we stamp --

2 Q. Sorted.

3 A. We stamp it and then subtenants along

4 with Kusper & Raucci has their own individual mail

5 slots or mailboxes and the mail is put into the

6 mailbox.

7 Q. Is that up at the reception desk?

8 A. No. That's back by the copy machine

9 area, FAX machine area. It's across from the filing

10 room.

11 Q. And where is it sorted?

12 A. There is a counter right there next to

13 the copy machine area that we sort it.

14 Q. Have you ever delayed any Clinton firm

15 mail from being -- being put in the slots? That's how

16 you deliver it, correct? You put it in the slots where


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17 the --

18 A. Yeah, it's distributed in the slots.

19 Q. You don't take it around to the actual --

20 A. No.

21 Q. -- offices?

22 A. No, no.

23 MR. KUSPER: Let him finish his question.

24 MR. WALDON: Even though you know what

55

1 I'm asking.

2 BY MR. WALDON:

3 Q. Have you ever delayed any Clinton firm

4 mail, held it up, not distributed it at the same time

5 as any other subtenant?


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6 A. I don't understand what you're asking.

7 Q. I'm asking has there been any occasion

8 where -- I'm talking about you now -- where you sort

9 the mail and put it in the slots for the various

10 subtenants when you're done sorting it but hold any

11 Clinton firm mail and do not put it in the slot at the

12 same time as everyone else?

13 A. No, I do not.

14 Q. Are you aware of any time where Stuart

15 Kusper, III did that?

16 MR. KUSPER: You said Stuart.

17 MR. WALDON: Stanley Kusper, III. Sorry.

18 THE WITNESS: No. I'm not aware of any.

19 MR. KUSPER: See. I'm not always

20 obstructing.

21 MR. WALDON: You're helpful. That was

22 one time.

23 BY MR. WALDON:

24 Q. After this lawsuit was filed or shortly


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56

1 before in looking at mail directed to the Clinton firm

2 did you look specifically for any mail coming from

3 Lavin & Waldon, PC, their attorneys?

4 A. No.

5 Q. What is the procedure in your firm with

6 regard to obtaining building passes to take equipment

7 or things out of the premises or out of the building I

8 guess?

9 A. If you're taking anything like a piece of

10 equipment or something normally not like a package or

11 you've gone shopping at Macy's or something like that,

12 we do need to get a building pass which are gotten from

13 me or Stan Kusper, III to remove any items that you

14 need to move.

15 Q. And what is the procedure? How is it

16 done? How long does it take?

17 A. It has changed over the course of time.


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18 It used to be just a simple form that I had copies of

19 that I could just fill out and sign. The building has

20 asked on occasion now that we e-mail them who and what

21 is being taken because some people leave from the front

22 door, some people leave from the dock area. We still

23 need to do the paper but it takes a little bit longer

24 to do it. Normally you can get it within an hour.

57

1 Q. Do you recall having been asked by Mary

2 Winch for building passes in connection with Clinton

3 firm objects?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Do you recall how many times ballpark?

6 A. No, I don't recall how many times.


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7 Q. Do you recall the details of any such

8 requests?

9 A. No, I don't recall.

10 Q. Are there any documents reflecting the

11 building's policies or procedures to get building

12 passes that you're aware of?


14 Q. Is there someone in the building

15 administration that would tell you how to do it now? I

16 mean, I think you said now the building asks for

17 e-mails to them. How did you learn that?

18 A. The building changed personnel and I

19 don't know if each personnel sets up their own way of

20 doing it.

21 Q. Do you have a particular -- is it

22 Tishman, Spire that's the managing -- management of the

23 building?

24 A. The management company, yes.


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58

1 Q. Do you have a particular contact that you

2 deal with?

3 A. Not really.

4 Q. Does it depend on the issue?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Okay. Do you recall ever delaying the

7 granting of a building pass to the Clinton firm when

8 asked by the Clinton firm?

9 A. If I had delayed it, it would have been

10 because it came to me too late in the day to get it

11 that day. It would have had to be done the following

12 morning.

13 Q. And what -- does KRC, do you actually

14 print up the physical form or give the subtenants the

15 physical form?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Okay. Have you ever received any

18 complaints from any subtenants about how you were doing


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19 your job or any of your activities?


21 question. No. 1, it's compound. It's also incredibly

22 vague and over broad.

23 If You understand, you many answer.

24 THE WITNESS: I don't understand what

59

1 you're asking.

2 BY MR. WALDON:

3 Q. In your ten years at KRC has a subtenant

4 ever complained to you that -- about anything that you

5 have done in connection with their tenancy?

6 MR. KUSPER: Objection to the form of the

7 question. It's vague and over broad.


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9 THE WITNESS: I don't recall.

10 BY MR. WALDON:

11 Q. Has Curtis Ross ever complained to you

12 about anything that you have done?


14 Q. Has David Multer ever complained to you

15 about anything that you've done or said?

16 A. Don't recall.

17 Q. Has William Jaeger ever complained to you

18 about anything you have done or said?


20 Q. Has Ron Cohen ever complained to you

21 about anything that you have done or said?


23 Q. Has Maurice Grant ever complained to you

24 about anything you've said or done?


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60

1 A. Don't recall.

2 Q. Has Judy Piscelli ever complained to you

3 about anything that you have said or done?

4 A. Don't recall.

5 MR. KUSPER: That's P-i-s-c-e-l-l-i.

6 BY MR. WALDON:

7 Q. Has Andre Bryant ever came to you about

8 anything you have said or done?

9 A. Don't recall.

10 (EXIT MR. CLINTON.)

11 BY MR. WALDON:

12 Q. Has Richard Hackinson ever complained to

13 you about anything you've said or done?

14 A. Don't recall.

15 Q. Last Geri, G-e-r-i, Holt, ever complained

16 to you about anything you have said or done?

17 A. Don't recall.

18 Q. After the gauging of the table in the den

19 to which we referred previously -- well, withdraw.


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20 Who is Gary Weiss?

21 A. Gary Weiss is a subtenant.

22 Q. Okay. After the table gauging occurrence

23 that we discussed early did you state when walking into

24 Mr. Clinton, Sr.'s office to Mr. Weiss referring to the

61

1 damaged table "I'll give you one guess, Gary, who did

2 it"?


4 question. It's vague and ambiguous.


6 THE WITNESS: I don't understand the

7 question.

8 BY MR. WALDON:


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9 Q. What don't you understand about it?

10 A. I don't understand what you're asking me.

11 Q. I'm asking you if you said that.


13 Q. Okay. Do you recall saying to Mr. Weiss

14 "And that person is in very close proximity"?


16 Q. Okay. Did you ever state outside of

17 Mr. Clinton Sr.'s office in a loud voice "I want them

18 gone"?


20 Q. Do you ever recall saying out loud near

21 the Clinton offices "He's going to get a piece of my

22 mind"?


24 Q. Do you ever recall saying to Mr. Clinton,

62


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1 Sr. "You never have any billings anyway"?


3 Q. Do you recall an incident following

4 Mr. Clinton, Sr. into the kitchen opening and slamming

5 cabinet doors and then turning the light off while he

6 was still in the room?


8 Q. Is there -- strike that.

9 When the Clinton firm moved into

10 Suite 3400 was there a paper shredder available to be

11 used by them and other tenants?

12 A. There was not.

13 Q. Was there at some point thereafter a

14 paper shredder that was available for use?

15 A. There still is a paper shredder that's

16 available for use.

17 Q. And do you recall approximately when it

18 became available for use?

19 A. I'm going to say maybe about a year ago.

20 Q. Since it became available for use has it


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21 ever been made not available for use to the subtenants?

22 A. No, it's available.

23 MR. WALDON: Could you mark this as


63

1 (ENTER MR. CLINTON.)



4 NO. 13.)

5 BY MR. WALDON:

6 Q. In this exhibit let me direct your

7 attention to the second page, please. It has a

8 document number at the lower right saying 1202. Do you

9 see that?


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10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Is this an e-mail you received from

12 Tishman prior on or about May 29th, '09?

13 A. Yes, it is.

14 Q. It has from Helen Carlos to Helen Carlos

15 but your name is at the top so this is something you

16 received from her?

17 A. Right.

18 Q. What did this relate to to the extent you

19 recall?

20 A. Helen Carlos was the overseer of the

21 cleaning people and she would come in periodically and

22 do cleaning inspections to make sure housekeeping was

23 vacuuming, cleaning properly, you know, cleaning the

24 vectors, so on and so forth. She usually scheduled

64


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1 this once or twice a year. She'd come in and do this.

2 She and I had been talking earlier regarding a problem

3 we were having in reference to bugs and the fact that I

4 needed the exterminators to come out to address the

5 issue. The bug situation was in Mary Winch's cubicle

6 and the cubicle next to hers, which Curtis Ross leased,

7 where Andre Bryant sits, Gary Weiss's secretary, Judy

8 Piscelli, and Judy Cox who works for Scott Cogan. We

9 had had the exterminators out before. It was something

10 I mentioned to Mary when we had the little cake crumb

11 incident. I also asked Mary who consistently kept

12 fruit in the cubicle -- we were having trouble with

13 fruit flies. I needed to get the exterminators out.

14 Cleaning informed me there were bugs and she was going

15 to get back to me letting me know when they could come

16 out.

17 Q. Did they come out?

18 A. Yes, they did.

19 Q. Have there been similar type problems

20 since then, along the same lines?

21 MR. KUSPER: Similar type problems to


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22 what? Object to the form of the question.

23 MR. WALDON: Fruit flies and bugs.

24 That's what she's talking about, fruit flies and bugs.

65

1 THE WITNESS: In that area, no.

2 MR. WALDON: Okay. Mark that as

3 Plaintiff's Exhibit 16, please.



6 NO. 16.)

7 BY MR. WALDON:

8 Q. Take a look at that document, please. is

9 this a memo from you on March 10, 2010 dealing with

10 insurance?


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11 A. Am I familiar with it, yes.

12 Q. And following this memo was an up-to-date

13 certificate provided as you requested in the second

14 sentence?

15 A. No. I do not have one as of today.

16 Q. And the next sentence talks about WC

17 insurance information. Is that workers' comp?

18 A. Workers' comp.

19 Q. Do you have that information?

20 A. No, I do not.

21 Q. Did you follow up and ask anyone at the

22 Clinton firm for these items following March 10, 2010?

23 A. I've asked Mary on several occasions.

24 Q. What did she say?

66


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1 A. She'll get it to me.

2 Q. Do you have any knowledge one way or the

3 other whether these insurance matters are in place?

4 A. No, I have no knowledge.

5 Q. During your time at KRC what subtenant

6 has been there the longest?

7 A. I would have to say Ron Cohen.

8 Q. C-o-h-e-n?

9 A. C-o-h-e-n.

10 Q. What subtenant, to the best of your

11 recollection, was there for the shortest period of

12 time?

13 A. Knepper & Gladney.

14 Q. I'm sorry?

15 A. Knepper, K-n-e-p-p-e-r, & Gladney,

16 G-l-a-d-n-e-y.

17 Q. And for approximately what period of time

18 were they there?

19 A. They came and went in a very short time.

20 It was a couple of months.

21 Q. And why was their stay so short?

22 A. You would have to ask them. I don't


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23 know.

24 Q. Did they have a written sublease?

67

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. For a period of time?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And did they leave before the termination

5 of the period in their sublease?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Who would know why they left so --

8 A. You would have to ask them.

9 Q. Was any action taken by KRC against them?

10 A. No.

11 Q. Did that firm, Knepper & Gladney, have


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12 any issues or disagreements with you, that you recall?

13 A. No.

14 Q. To your best of your recollection have

15 there been any other subtenants that left Suite 3400

16 prior to the expiration of their sublease term?

17 A. I don't understand when you say left.

18 Q. Vacated their offices.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Okay. Who?

21 A. Geri Holts. I believe that's it.

22 Q. And if you know, why did he depart before

23 the termination of his sublease?

24 A. Geri Holts fell into some hard times and

68


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1 she -- she downsized into a smaller office. In fact,

2 the office she had was Mr. Clinton, Sr.'s now. She

3 relocated to a area that she could more afford. She

4 has since left Kusper & Raucci. She maintains an

5 office I don't know where now. I don't know where

6 she's at.

7 Q. Are you aware of any subtenants that were

8 allowed to leave prior to the termination date of their

9 sublease because of any disagreements with you?


11 Q. Is Marshal Hourback a prior subtenant

12 in --

13 A. He is a prior subtenant, yes.

14 MR. KUSPER: Again, got to let him finish

15 his question and then you can answer.

16 THE WITNESS: Sorry.

17 BY MR. WALDON:

18 Q. Yes, he was?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Okay. Do you know why he left Suite

21 3400?

22 A. No, I do not.

23 Q. Did he ever have any disagreements with


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24 you?

69


2 Q. Do you know who Bob Grossman is?

3 A. Yes. He's a current subtenant.

4 Q. Has he ever had any disagreements with

5 you?

6 A. Not that I'm aware of, no.

7 Q. Has Bill Jaeger ever had any

8 disagreements with you over anything?


10 Q. Do you know who Guy --

11 A. Geleerd.

12 Q. G-e-l-e-e-r-d.


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13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Is he a current subtenant?

15 A. He's a prior subtenant.

16 Q. Okay. Did he have any disagreements with

17 you over anything that you can recall?


19 Q. To your recollection has Mr. Clinton, Jr.

20 ever refused any requests you made of him for anything?

21 A. I have never made a request to him.

22 Q. Have you ever made a request for anything

23 to Clinton, Sr.?

24 A. No.

70

1 Q. Has Mr. Clinton, Jr. ever been rude to


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2 you, in your opinion?

3 A. No, I don't believe he's been rude.

4 Q. Has Mr. Clinton, Sr. ever been rude to

5 you in your opinion?

6 A. On many occasions.

7 Q. Do you recall any specifics at this time?

8 A. Mr. Clinton, Sr. has a petulance for

9 swearing. He will do it two or three times a day

10 depending how many times I pass him.

11 Q. Has Mary Winch, to your recollection,

12 ever refused any requests that you made?

13 A. I would have to say Mary refused every

14 request I ever made to her in a roundabout way.

15 Q. Can you give me an example?

16 A. The insurance certificate. I've been

17 asking her for that for close to two years.

18 Q. Anything else that you can think of?

19 A. Mary just has a way of just being

20 everywhere all the time and seeing things that nobody

21 else sees or nobody else is aware of. One of the

22 problems we had with mail distribution is Mary's

23 continually standing behind you waiting for every

24 letter to be put in so she can take it out. I have on


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71

1 many occasions asked her to wait until we get done with

2 the mail. She wants the mail done at a certain time.

3 We have told her the mail doesn't come in every day at

4 the same time, we'll do it when it comes in. She has

5 booked conference rooms, never cancels it, never uses

6 them. I've asked her on many occasions to please not

7 eat at her desk.

8 Q. Anything else?

9 A. Not that I can think of right now.

10 Q. Do you have a favorite subtenant?

11 MR. KUSPER: I object to all these

12 questions. This is so incredibly irrelevant and

13 wasteful. It's harassing, this whole lawsuit.


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15 THE WITNESS: I have many favorite

16 subtenants.

17 BY MR. WALDON:

18 Q. Is the Clinton firm your least favorite?

19 MR. KUSPER: Now or ever? Object to the

20 form of the question. It's vague and ambiguous.

21 BY MR. WALDON:

22 Q. Last year, within the last year.

23 A. They are not my favorite. They're not my

24 least favorite. They're subtenants.

72

1 MR. KUSPER: Do I get to answer that

2 question?


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3 MR. WALDON: I don't think so. I'll

4 subpoena you later.

5 MR. KUSPER: I'll do my arguing in front

6 of the judge.

7 BY MR. WALDON:

8 Q. Do you recall if Mr. Clinton, Sr. ever

9 reserved and used any of the conference rooms where he

10 alone was in there?

11 A. To my knowledge, no.

12 MR. WALDON: Mark this, please, as

13 Exhibit 18.



16 NO. 18.)

17 MR. KUSPER: Just state for the record

18 this is a document produced by defendant, Bates

19 No. 000409, 410, 411 and 486.

20 MR. WALDON: And --

21 MR. KUSPER: Excuse me. It got stuck

22 together. And 524. It's not a consecutive document.

23 MR. WALDON: That's correct.

24


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73

1 BY MR. WALDON:

2 Q. In connection with booking a conference

3 room there's a calendar that's used; is that correct?

4 A. Correct.

5 Q. And the calendar has a page for every

6 day; is that correct?

7 A. Correct.

8 Q. And state for the record that the

9 entirety of '09, 2010, 2011 have been produced, very

10 thick document. I just had a few general questions

11 with these few selected pages.

12 MR. KUSPER: Can we lay a foundation as

13 to what year these are from?

14 MR. WALDON: This is 2009.


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15 MR. KUSPER: Excuse me. I'm sorry. I

16 didn't see it on the front page.

17 BY MR. WALDON:

18 Q. So I think you said the conference rooms

19 are booked through the receptionist or not through --

20 I'm sorry.

21 A. At that time they were being booked

22 through the receptionist, correct.

23 Q. So 2009 through the receptionist and what

24 about in 2010?

74

1 A. Through the receptionist.

2 Q. Okay. And that changed in 2011?

3 A. Correct.


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4 Q. When -- and now it's through you?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Okay. When did it change?

7 A. When the locks were put on the conference

8 room door, the den door.

9 Q. Do you use the same type of calendar?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Then if you would turn to the page that's

12 marked 486, which is second from the back.

13 A. Okay.

14 Q. For March 30th of 2009 as a sample page,

15 are the three columns the den, the small conference,

16 c-o-n-f?

17 A. Right.

18 Q. And library?

19 A. We used to have a library, correct.

20 Q. And in recent times it's just the den and

21 the small conference room, correct?

22 A. Correct.

23 Q. And for the den on March 30th from 11:00

24 to 3:00 would this indicate -- what would it indicate


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75

1 with regard to the Clinton's use of the den?

2 A. From what I can read here it looks like

3 they booked the room from 11:00 to sometime and then

4 canceled it and said 11:00 to 3:00.

5 Q. Okay. And there's a date stamp there.

6 What's your procedure?

7 A. The day they book it is the day we stamp

8 it so if there is a issue with somebody saying well, I

9 booked it, you know, on February 27th and you didn't

10 book it till March 30th we stamp it so there's not a

11 problem.

12 Q. Turn to the next page, if you would.

13 So in the small conference column, if

14 you go down to the 1:00 to 2:30 for gross, do you see

15 that?


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16 A. Correct.

17 Q. The stamp is May 12, correct?

18 A. Correct.

19 Q. So in this instance on May 12 they booked

20 it for May 13th?

21 A. Correct.

22 Q. That's what this reflects? Just getting

23 the procedure down.

24 A. Yes.

76

1 Q. Okay. Presumably a conference room could

2 be booked by someone calling the receptionist or you?

3 A. Correct.

4 Q. Presumably no records or notes are kept


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5 of that, is that correct, other than what's in the

6 calendar?

7 A. I make records and notes, yes. Because

8 it's on here doesn't mean they used it.

9 Q. Right.

10 A. They booked it. Whether it was used or

11 not I don't know.

12 Q. So if someone, for example, booked the

13 small conference room for a day in advance and then

14 canceled and someone else booked it, would that all be

15 reflected in the calendar?

16 A. It should be, yes. It should be.

17 Q. Okay.

18 A. I can't speak for the person who did

19 this. I don't know.

20 Q. That's what you do now?

21 A. That's what I do now.

22 Q. Okay. Almost done.

23 Back for a second to earlier when we

24 were talking about the touring of Suite 3400 before


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77

1 this sublease was filed.

2 A. Before it was signed?

3 Q. Before was signed, yes.

4 When Mr. Clinton, Jr. was there with

5 you before the sublease was signed was he shown the

6 internal bathroom?

7 A. No. I mean, I -- again, when I show the

8 suite I mention we have two conference rooms, two

9 inside bathrooms, a full size kitchen, a library. At

10 the time they booked we did have a library. The use of

11 it's by Kusper & Raucci's permission. I don't quite

12 understand what you're asking me.

13 Q. I'm asking you if you recall discussing

14 or mentioning or pointing out to Mr. Clinton, Jr. these

15 internal bathrooms.

16 A. I showed him we had two inside bathrooms.


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17 Q. Okay. At that time did he say anything

18 along the lines that that would be important to them

19 because of Mr. Clinton, Sr.'s issues with walking?

20 A. I don't recall that being mentioned.

21 Q. Did you ever have any discussion prior to

22 the signing of the lease with Mr. Clinton, Sr. about

23 the internal bathroom?

24 A. I did not see Mr. Clinton, Sr. until the

78

1 day he moved in.

2 MR. WALDON: That's all I have.

3 MR. KUSPER: I just have a couple

4 minutes. I got to go through my notes. I also have to

5 go to the restroom. I may have a couple questions.


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6 MR. WALDON: Okay.


8 10:16 to 10:35.)

9 MR. KUSPER: I have a few questions. I'm

10 going to go in reverse order from where we ended.

11 E X A M I N A T I O N

12 BY MR. KUSPER:

13 Q. Ms. Carlson, a short time ago do you

14 recall being asked a question by Mr. Waldon something

15 akin to are you aware of any time that Mr. Clinton, Sr.

16 reserved and used the conference room where he alone

17 was in there?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. All right. And do you recall answering

20 something like to my knowledge no?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Ma'am, is there ever a time that you're

23 aware of Mr. Clinton, Sr. being in one of the

24 conference room in Suite 3400 alone?


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79

1 A. Mr. Clinton, Sr. would go into the small

2 conference room. He would not reserve it. He wouldn't

3 tell anybody he was in there. He'd go to sleep. I

4 caught him twice in there and it was brought to my

5 attention somebody was in there because they had the

6 room reserved. The door was closed and the sign said

7 occupied. I knocked on the door, went in and we woke

8 him up on both occasions and asked him to leave.

9 Q. Ma'am, is Mr. Clinton, Sr. the only

10 person that you -- subtenant or person that you tried

11 to stop from using either of the conference rooms in

12 Suite 3400 when they haven't booked them or had a

13 meeting going?

14 A. No, he is not the only person we stopped.

15 Q. Can you please tell us who else you have

16 tried to stop from doing that?

17 A. Scott Cogan has a habit of going into the


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18 conference room, using it as his office because he has

19 a very small cubicle space and doesn't have enough

20 room. Julia on occasion has gone into the den prior to

21 the locks being put on. She can't get cell phone

22 reception. It's easier for her to work at the desk

23 table because, again, she has very, very small area.

24 Bob Grossman occasionally has gone to the den to I

80

1 think catch a few Z's on the couch for whatever reason.

2 I don't know.

3 Q. Why have you asked those people not to

4 use the conference rooms when they -- either and or

5 both don't have them reserved or don't have a meeting?

6 A. Because it's not fair to the other


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7 subtenants. We only have two conference rooms. We

8 have a procedure and everybody needs to follow the

9 procedure. I mean, no one gets special treatment.

10 Everybody is equal.

11 Q. Ma'am, do you remember being asked some

12 questions about a birthday cake for Mr. Clinton, Sr.?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. I just want to make sure I understand

15 this. After you raised the concern about the birthday

16 cake with Ms. Mary Winch and told her that the food

17 shouldn't be out by her cubicle was the cake removed?

18 A. It was removed. I don't know where it

19 was removed. There was a awful lot of cake left on the

20 floor, in the secretarial station, on the counter. We

21 have wood tops to our secretarial areas. We've asked

22 people not to put dishes, cups, plates because they get

23 ruined and I specifically said to her you can have a

24 birthday cake in the kitchen, do it all the time for


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81

1 other people, you're more than welcome to use the

2 kitchen. Why she insisted on doing it at her cube I

3 don't know but, again, it was not a small amount. It

4 wasn't a few crumbs. It was quite a bit of cake and

5 there was a trail going a few different directions.

6 Q. So the cake was moved? You just don't

7 know where it was moved to?

8 A. I don't know where it was moved.

9 Q. Was there another concern aside from the

10 issue that you just raised, the issue about the bug

11 problem, that had been addressed previously by the

12 building that was a concern to you with regard to food

13 being outside by the secretarial cubicles?

14 A. Yeah, it was a concern because we had had

15 bug problems in that area and because she was bringing

16 not only cake but there was nuts out there and candy

17 out there and fruit out there. Again, we have a

18 refrigerator. Put that stuff in the refrigerator. If


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19 y

Carlson Deposition Redacted

Documents

Transcript of Carlson Deposition Redacted