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Topic: Justification for center tear

Message: Posted by: MagicTobe (Oct 17, 2011 04:36PM)

Good Evening dear Mentalists!

I believe the Center Tear to be a very powerful instrument but I always felt that it lacked motivation.Why would you write a word on a billet if you are then going to tear it and burn it?

In my Magic I am very cautious to justify every movement I do and I am therefore not content with the standardcenter tear routine.Hence I am looking for a justification for why let the spectator write down a name and tear it up.Until now I tell a story that I want a souvenir/memory of this magic moment that is going to happen... and that Ikept all this memories in my special bottle (I tear the billet up and put it in the bottle).

Question: What justification do you use/suggest for the center tear routine?

Message: Posted by: MichaelCGM (Oct 17, 2011 04:38PM)

This was just recenly discussed. You might try a search. I believe the general concensus was that writingsomething down reinforces the thought in one's mind.

Message: Posted by: David Rhodes (Oct 17, 2011 04:46PM)

There is a difference between justifying the writing, whereas you need a second justification for tearing thepaper. The two justifications I use are something on Docc's L&L DVDs where the process is first done oneway then it is repeated. The one I use most often is found in Cassidy's name place routine. The justificationbeing as soon as you touch the paper it is disqualified. Thus giving not only the perfect justification to tear the

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paper it also directs all the attention to the other one.

Message: Posted by: PaulPacif ic (Oct 17, 2011 05:07PM)

[quote]On 2011-10-17 16:46, David Rhodes wrote:There is a difference between justifying the writing, whereas you need a second justification for tearing thepaper. The two justifications I use are something on Docc's L&L DVDs where the process is first done oneway then it is repeated. [/quote]

This idea of doing the procedure twice is far older than that. Corinda's "Gem of Mental Magic" on page 149of The Steps is a prime example.

Message: Posted by: David Rhodes (Oct 17, 2011 05:29PM)

I probably could have explained it better in Docc's DVD the spectator writes something the first time andDocc sets the watch whereas in the second phase it is reversed.

I never liked the idea of having the spectator write something twice especially when the justification is thatthey printed it rather that wrote it.

Message: Posted by: Mr. Mindbender (Oct 17, 2011 05:39PM)

In Barrie Richardson's Theater of the Mind, he has a routine involving a Post It note. He uses a cleverlyworded, simple sentence that justifies the actions. If you care to, you can expand on the reasoning, but I'vefound that this simple line makes total sense and works just fine.

Message: Posted by: Christian & Katalina (Oct 17, 2011 06:27PM)

I have heard this question so many times.... My problem with this question is simple:

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If you are a performer...an entertainer . . . a person who writes scripts, then you find a motivation for the moveor you use a different method.

When this question is asked, I wonder, is one just looking for an easy answer so they can go out and do thisfor their frinds? Did they really think about why they are performing this effect and what they are trying toachieve...or are they just looking for a quick fix, a cute trick, a way to freak someone out, impress a girl.

If you have a show or plan on performing a particular routine and you can't figure how you would cover thatone move that makes the method work...then don't do it. There is not one answer that fits all. Thecover/script/reason has to fit your persona, the venue, and reason why you are performing the effect.

Message: Posted by: John C (Oct 17, 2011 06:42PM)

Finally a SANE answer. The question is:

Question: What justification do you use/suggest for the center tear routine?

The answer: Find one that fits the reason you are doing a center tear. The center tear isn't the effect. It's ameans to it.

You don't say boy this center tear thing is dumb. There's no reason for it.

You say, "I think I'll do this effect. How can I facilitate it's success? WALA!! I'll use a center tear!!"

J

Message: Posted by: Isper (Oct 17, 2011 07:17PM)

The simplest answer is don't justify anything and just do it. If the final effect which you use the CT to achieve is

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done well enough, you will be amazed at the number of people who do not question it.

Message: Posted by: The Paranormalist (Oct 17, 2011 07:56PM)

Or don't use a center tear, instead find a different method.

Message: Posted by: PsiDroid (Oct 17, 2011 08:34PM)

Congruence will get you far ahead of the game:

Message: Posted by: Jonathan Tow nsend (Oct 17, 2011 08:49PM)

Off the cuff idea for sample snipit of script as you hand them the pad:[/quote]It's much easier to focus on a word or image or number if you see it - just write it down here, it's okay if theothers see it too, but you need to focus on that image. when you have that in mind, clearly, in focus, both inaction from writing and now in visual memory from looking just put the pad down. Would the other folks whosaw what you are imagining now please raise their hands. Thanks.[/quote]

Message: Posted by: MagicBrain (Oct 17, 2011 09:03PM)

[quote]On 2011-10-17 18:27, Christian & Katalina wrote:I have heard this question so many times.... My problem with this question is simple:

If you are a performer...an entertainer . . . a person who writes scripts, then you find a motivation for the moveor you use a different method.

When this question is asked, I wonder, is one just looking for an easy answer so they can go out and do thisfor their frinds? Did they really think about why they are performing this effect and what they are trying to

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achieve...or are they just looking for a quick fix, a cute trick, a way to freak someone out, impress a girl.

If you have a show or plan on performing a particular routine and you can't figure how you would cover thatone move that makes the method work...then don't do it. There is not one answer that fits all. Thecover/script/reason has to fit your persona, the venue, and reason why you are performing the effect.[/quote]

Yes I agree. If you want to do a center tear you must know first why you have to do it. Don't use a sleight justto use it. If you need the center tear for a good purpose, you will find a way to justify it.

What I sometimes do when I use a center tear is this :

I tear the paper in at least 5 pieces, I s***l the correct piece and then I give the other pieces to differentpeople. I tell them not to open it but to just think about it. My thoughts on doing this is to get more people toparticipate in the experiment. I say that I want to envolve as much people as possible at the same time. Sojust before revealing the word, I collect all the pieces and then reveal the word or follow-up with the routine.As for the reason to write something on the paper, this is to allow as much people as possible to 'touch' theword.

So the purpose to write and tear the paper is to let other members of the audience take part in theexperiment -- well that's what I am saying...

Anyway, if you are good at showmanship, nobody will ever tell you 'why are we writing this or that ?'.

Magic Brain

Message: Posted by: Tony Razzano (Oct 17, 2011 10:48PM)

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[quote]On 2011-10-17 19:56, The Paranormalist wrote:Or don't use a center tear, instead find a different method.[/quote]

Exactly.

I never justify it and no one has ever asked.

Message: Posted by: Dr. Eamon (Oct 17, 2011 10:48PM)

There are many ways to justify the writing and tearing. I think the CT is very strong especially because it canbe done impromptu�Message: Posted by: Dr. Eamon (Oct 17, 2011 11:39PM)

I have just put a part of one of my presentations in Secret Sessions. If this presentation suits your style, it willeven give you more than only a reason to write and tear when you use a Centre Tear�http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=437837&forum=37&0

Best,John

Message: Posted by: magician 336 (Oct 17, 2011 11:55PM)

I thought the center tear didn't really fit into my style and approach, but I got the idea the other day for anexcellent way to accomplish a nearly impossible appearing routine using it. My thought were to have theperson think of their cell phone number, write it down as a kind of "bet" where if I win I get to keep their card,but if I can't they can throw it away. I have them write it down then on a second thought, pull out my cell phoneand say "nevermind, lets do it this way, ill try to guess it by dialing what I think it is into my cell phone then if I

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can't get it, you get to see me awkwardly call someone I don't know and if I can, I still get your number, so wecan get rid of this". I then exicute the center tear, peek and completely destroy all the evidence, the rest ispresentation ;P This would be great for meeting people or securing a job/gig because now both parties haveone anothers numbers at the end! Excellent lead in to some of the Patrick Redford cell phone routinesbecause instantly both you and the other person's cell phone is out, so the Double Feature ideas are perfectfor a follow up, I hope you all like my thoughts!

-Jake

Message: Posted by: dand243 (Oct 18, 2011 12:55AM)

This very question is the reason why I don't do the center tear but after reading I might just do it and see whathappens.

Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Oct 18, 2011 05:59AM)

I remember that thread but a lot of people never did see the "obvious" method you are referring to Illusionist.Granted when the routine is reengineered, some will fall into that catergory but for the most part, most will noteven remember the billet if the performance is top notch.

I did the PCT for years before going to other means for my information. The CT whatever method you use isstill a classic and great for impromptu mystifying. There are other hands off methods of course where onedoes not have to ever come close to the paper after handing it to the spectator if one chooses to go in thatdirection.

Decomposing near Daybreak :kewl:

Message: Posted by: SubconsciousSymbols (Oct 18, 2011 06:10AM)

Many, many top PERFORMERS, people who actually go out and perform effects rather than just talk aboutthem, have used this to great effect and are not questioned. I have heard Osterlind talk at length about his

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tear and how he used it many times at the same walkaround venue, sometimes for the same groups ofpeople and never got called on it.

The point is that your presentation should be captivating and entertaining so that people do not want to findthe 'trick' behind it. At the very least some very sceptical people will know that you did something but theyshould have been entertained also. Plus you should have some kind of logical disconnect and timemisdirection between the tear and the reveal. In the hands of a competent performer the CT should beinexplicable.

If you did your research you would find that the CT has probably been in use since the first spiritualists in theearly 1800's.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Just my 2p, Asher