http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1350567?eng=y

For the First Time, Francis Contradicts BenedictHe has touched upon the sore spot of the Mass in the ancient rite. Ratzinger permitted its celebration for all. Bergoglio has prohibited it for one religious order that favored it

by Sandro Magister

ROME, July 29, 2013 – One point on which Jorge Mario Bergoglio was eagerly expected  to weigh in, after his election as pope, was that of the Mass in the ancient rite.

There were those who predicted that Pope Francis would not distance himself from the stance of his predecessor. Who had liberalized the celebration of the Mass in the ancient rite as an “extraordinary” form of the modern rite, with the motu proprio “Summorum Pontificum" of July 7, 2007:

> Benedict XVI Liberalizes the Ancient Rite of the Mass – And Explains Why

and with the subsequent instruction "Universæ Ecclesiæ" of May 13, 2011:

> Two Masses for a Single Church

And there were instead those who prognosticated on the part of Francis a restriction - or even a cancellation - of the possibility of celebrating the Mass with the rite prior to Vatican Council II, even at the cost of contradicting the decisions of Benedict XVI with him still alive.

To read the decree issued by the Vatican congregation for religious shortly before the voyage of Francis in Brazil, with the explicit approval of the pope himself, one must agree more with the latter than with the former.

The decree bears the date of July 11, 2013, the protocol number 52741/2012, and the signatures of the prefect of the congregation, Cardinal Joao Braz de Aviz, a focolarino,  and of the secretary of the same congregation, Archbishop José Rodríguez Carballo, a Franciscan.

Braz de Aviz is the only high-ranking official in the curia of Brazilian nationality, and because of this he has accompanied Francis on his voyage to Rio de Janeiro. He has a reputation as a progressive, although that of a scatterbrain fits him better. And he will probably be one of the first to go when the reform of the curia announced by Francis takes shape.

Rodríguez Carballo instead enjoys the pope's complete trust. His promotion as second-in-command of the congregation was backed by Francis himself at the beginning of his pontificate.

It is difficult, therefore, to think that pope Bergoglio was unaware of what he was approving when he was presented with the decree before its publication.

The decree installs an apostolic commissioner - in the person of the Capuchin Fidenzio Volpi - at the head of all the communities of the congregation of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate.

And this in itself is cause for astonishment. Because the Franciscans of the Immaculate are one of the most flourishing religious communities born in the Catholic Church in recent decades, with male and female branches, with many young vocations, spread over several continents and with a mission in Argentina as well.

They want to be faithful to tradition, in full respect for the magisterium of the Church. So much so that in their communities they celebrate Masses both in the ancient rite and in the modern rite, as moreover do hundreds of religious communities around the world - the Benedictines of Norcia, to give just one example - applying the spirit and the letter of the motu proprio “Summorum Pontificum" of Benedict XVI.

But precisely this was contested by a core group of internal dissidents, who appealed to the Vatican authorities complaining of the excessive propensity of their congregation to celebrate the Mass in the ancient rite, with the effect of creating exclusion and opposition within the communities, of undermining internal unity and, worse, of weakening the more general "sentire cum Ecclesia."

The Vatican authorities responded by sending an apostolic visitor one year ago. And now comes the appointment of the commissioner.

But what is most astonishing are the last five lines of the decree of July 11:

"In addition to the above, the Holy Father Francis has directed that every religious of the congregation of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate is required to celebrate the liturgy according to the ordinary rite and that, if the occasion should arise, the use of the extraordinary form (Vetus Ordo) must be explicitly authorized by the competent authorities, for every religious and/or community that makes the request.”

The astonishment stems from the fact that what is decreed contradicts the dispositions given by Benedict XVI, which for the celebration of the Mass in the ancient rite “sine populo" demand no previous request for authorization whatsoever:

"Ad talem celebrationem secundum unum alterumve Missale, sacerdos nulla eget licentia, nec Sedis Apostolicae nec Ordinarii sui" (1).

While for Masses "cum populo" they set out a few conditions, but always guaranteeing the freedom to celebrate.

In general, against a decree of a Vatican congregation it is possible to have recourse to the supreme tribunal of the apostolic signatura, today headed by a cardinal, the American Raymond Leo Burke, considered a friend by the traditionalists.

But if the decree is the object of approval in a specific form on the part of the pope, as it seems to be in this case, recourse is not admitted.

The Franciscans of the Immaculate will have to comply with the prohibition on celebrating the Mass in the ancient rite beginning Sunday, August 11.

And now what will happen, not only among them but in the whole Church?

It was the conviction of Benedict XVI that "the two forms of the usage of the Roman Rite can be mutually enriching." He had explained this in the heartfelt letter to the bishops of the whole world with which he had accompanied the motu proprio "Summorum Pontificum":

> "With great trust and hope…"

But from now on this is no longer the case, at least not for all. For the Franciscans of the Immaculate, forced to celebrate the Mass only in the modern form, there remains just one way to take to heart what Benedict XVI also hoped: to "demonstrate" in this form as well, "more powerfully than has been the case hitherto, the sacrality which attracts many people to the former usage."

The fact is that one pillar of the pontificate of Joseph Ratzinger has been cracked. By an exception that many fear - or hope - will soon become the rule.

__________

(1) Curiously, even six years after its publication, the motu proprio “Summorum Pontificum” of Benedict XVI continues to be present on the website of the Holy See only in two

languages, and these among the least-known: Latin and Hungarian.

__________

The website of the Franciscans of the Immaculate:

> Francescani dell'Immacolata

__________

There is a thorough pro-and-con dispute over the “Summorum Pontificum” in a book hot off the presses by Professor Pietro De Marco of the University of Florence and the liturgist Andrea Grillo:

A. Grillo, P. De Marco, "Ecclesia universa o introversa?", Edizioni San Paolo, Cinisello Balsamo, 2013.

In criticizing the motu proprio of Benedict XVI, Grillo rejects even its prescriptive validity. Because in his judgment, the missal prior to Vatican Council II has been abrogated. And therefore there is no longer any reason that could justify its use.

Grillo teaches sacramental and liturgical theology at the Pontifical Atheneum of Saint Anselm in Rome.

__________

English translation by Matthew Sherry, Ballwin, Missouri, U.S.A.

__________

For more news and commentary, see the blog that Sandro Magister maintains, available only in Italian:

> SETTIMO CIELO

__________

29.7.2013 

http://ncronline.org/news/theology/pope-restricts-use-latin-mass-franciscan-friars-immaculate

Pope restricts use of Latin Mass by Franciscan Friars of the ImmaculateCindy Wooden Catholic News Service  |  Aug. 6, 2013

Share on facebook Share on twitter More Sharing Services 10

Print email PDF

Vatican City

Pope Francis' order restricting the use of the pre-Vatican II Latin Mass in communities of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate addresses problems within the religious order and does not contradict retired Pope Benedict XVI's permission for wider use of the old Mass throughout the church, the Vatican spokesman said.Pope Francis' orders "do not intend to contradict the general instructions" of Pope Benedict, but respond "to specific problems and tensions created in that congregation regarding the rite for the celebration of Mass," said Jesuit Fr. Federico Lombardi, Vatican spokesman, in a statement Friday.After an apostolic visitation of the order, begun under Pope Benedict, Pope Francis appointed Capuchin Fr. Fidenzio Volpi to serve as apostolic commissioner of the order.Announcing the appointment in a letter dated July 11, the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life also issued a decree saying that Pope Francis requires all the friars "to celebrate the liturgy according to the ordinary rite," the post-Vatican II Mass, and that the use of the so-called extraordinary form or pre-Vatican II Latin Mass "must be explicitly authorized by the competent authorities for every religious or community that makes a request."Some bloggers and Catholic websites had presented the Vatican move as an attempt to restrict use of the old Mass, but Lombardi said Friday the provisions concern "the life and governance of the congregation as a whole and not just liturgical questions."NCR's newest blog, The Francis Chronicles, reports on the ministry of the world's parish priest. Sign up for email alerts so you won't miss a thing.A statement published on the friars' website said that Fr. Stefano Manelli, founder and superior, "together with the whole Institute of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, submits in obedience to the Holy Father and trusts that this obedience will bring forth greater graces."An "official note" from the friars Saturday said while many of the members and communities chose to give priority to the old Mass, the priests always were free to celebrate Mass using both forms, and Manelli often celebrated Mass

using the new rite. It acknowledged, however, there were internal differences over how the choice of liturgy was being made.The sisters, in a statement Tuesday, said members of the women's branch of the order also were allowed to choose which form of the Mass they wanted to attend unless they belonged to the contemplative branch of the order that used the extraordinary form exclusively.

279 comments

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/03/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259.html

Popes Francis And Pope Benedict XVI Alleged Latin Mass Clash

Follow:

The Pope, Christianity, The Pope, Pope Francis, Latin Mass Limitation, Latin Mass Restriction, Pope Emeritus, Pope Emeritus Benedict, Pope News, Roman Catholic Church, Summorum Pontificum, Two Popes, Religion News

Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI allegedly feels that his "Summorum Pontificum" decree has been "wounded" by Pope Francis' decision to restrict the Latin Mass, which Benedict's 2007 apostolic letter had explicitly allowed. Italian journalist Sandro Magister reported that in "conversations with his visitors" Benedict has revealed his private opinion of the Francis-initiated limitation.Rorate Caeli reported on the "explosive revelation," which came to light in Magister's analysis of the Francis pontificate to date, agreeing that Francis' restriction does indeed undermine the authority of the Summorum Pontificum itself.Magister wrote:The ban imposed by pope Bergoglio on the congregation of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate against celebrating the Mass in the ancient rite has been an effective restriction of that freedom of celebrating in this rite which Benedict XVI had guaranteed for all.

It emerges from conversations with his visitors that Ratzinger himself has seen in this restriction a "vulnus" [or wound] on his 2007 motu proprio "Summorum Pontificum."In the interview with “La Civiltà Cattolica," Francis dismissed the liberalization of the ancient rite decided by Benedict XVI as a simple "prudential decision motivated by the desire to help people who have this sensitivity," when instead the intention made explicit by

Ratzinger - expressed at the time in a letter to the bishops of the whole world - was that “the two forms of the usage of the Roman Rite can be mutually enriching."Francis came under fire from traditionalists over the summer for "abrogating the Summorum," but the Vatican responded with a statement that refuted claims that his decision undermined Benedict's initial letter. Vatican spokesman Fr. Federico Lombardi said to the National Catholic Reporter that Francis' orders "do not intend to contradict the general instructions" of Benedict, but respond "to specific problems and tensions created in that congregation regarding the rite for the celebration of Mass."The goodwill between two living popes is unprecedented in the Catholic Church, and Francis once joked that "The last time there were two or three popes, they didn't talk among themselves and they fought over who was the true pope!" He added that having Benedict living in the Vatican "is like having a grandfather – a wise grandfather – living at home."This is the first report of any discord between the two popes, as Benedict announced his intention to keep a low profile by living a life mostly devoted to prayer when he resigned. He also stressed his "unconditional reverence and obedience" to Francis.Catholic blog Rorate Caeli anticipates a speedy denial from the Vatican in response to Benedict's alleged comments.

HUFFPOST SUPER USER

lastwarning2earth rev14

DeceptionExposer

92 Fans

57 minutes ago ( 1:49 AM)

The influence of Rome in the countries that once acknowledged her dominion is still far from being destroyed.

And prophecy foretells a restoration of her power. "I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast." Verse 3. The infliction of the deadly wound points to the downfall of the papacy in 1798. After this, says the prophet, "his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

" Paul states plainly that the "man of sin" will continue until the second advent. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8. To the very close of time he will carry forward the work of deception. And the revelator declares, also referring to the papacy: "All that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life." Revelation 13:8. In both the Old and the New World, the papacy will receive homage in the honor paid to the Sunday institution, that rests solely upon the authority of the Roman Church.

lastwarning2earth_rev14: The influence of Rome in the countries that once acknowledged

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/lastwarning2earth_rev14/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_290064904.html

History | Permalink | Share it

This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program

ursasr

256 Fans

3 hours ago (12:01 AM)

J C DIDNT SPEAK LATIN WHY IS HE LANGUAGE OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE IMPORTANT??????

ursasr: J C DIDNT SPEAK LATIN WHY IS HE LANGUAGE OF

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/ursasr/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_290052340.html

History | Permalink | Share it

pup333

65 Fans

2 hours ago (12:25 AM)

Why are you screaming?

pup333: Why are you screaming?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/pup333/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_290055713.html

History | Permalink | Share it

umannyt

27 Fans

3 minutes ago ( 2:44 AM)

Neither did Jesus speak in English.

umannyt: Neither did Jesus speak in English.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/umannyt/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_290069386.html

History | Permalink | Share it

overdubbed

I'm not very Huffpo-Correct

222 Fans

3 hours ago (11:21 PM)

I have no idea what any of this is really about or if it is even actually true.

overdubbed: I have no idea what any of this is really

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/overdubbed/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_290045811.html

History | Permalink | Share it

HUFFPOST SUPER USER

Chris Townsend

Regularity is the Spice of Life.

103 Fans

6 hours ago ( 9:15 PM)

And THIS is the problem with "papal infallibility"...

Chris_Townsend: And THIS is the problem with "papal infallibility"...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Chris_Townsend/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_290023470.html

History | Permalink | Share it

This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program

Moogoo

23 Fans

4 hours ago (11:01 PM)

This has nothing to do with papal infallibility.

Moogoo: This has nothing to do with papal infallibility.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Moogoo/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_290042518.html

History | Permalink | Share it

This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program

Simon Aguilar

The World Revolves Around Me

285 Fans

6 hours ago ( 9:12 PM)

Catholics are too wrapped up in their rituals and traditions when the scripture says that God's electing grace is the only way to salvation. I'd be amazed if I ever met a Catholic who actually knows what the Bible says.

Simon_Aguilar: Catholics are too wrapped up in their rituals and traditions

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Simon_Aguilar/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_290022848.html

History | Permalink | Share it

umannyt

27 Fans

3 hours ago (11:50 PM)

"Catholics are too wrapped up in their rituals and traditions when the scripture says that God's electing grace is the only way to salvation."

Rituals - Example: "And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; DO THIS in REMEMBRANCE of me.” (Luke 22:19)

Traditions - There's apostolic tradition (2 Thessalonians 2:15; 1 Corinthians 11:2; 2 Thessalonians 3:6) and there's mere human tradition (Matthew 15:2-6; Mark 7:3-13; Colossians 2:8)

Salvation - Salvation is by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8), through Christ alone (Acts 4:12) but not by faith alone (James 2:24). Also see: http://www.ewtn.com/library/answers/faworks.htm

"I'd be amazed if I ever met a Catholic who actually knows what the Bible says." - You haven't met too many Catholics then. Check out the following Catholics on YouTube: Patrick Madrid (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=patrick+madrid+where%27s+that+in+the+bible&oq=patrick+madrid+where%27s+that+in+the+bible&gs_l=youtube.3...39185.43542.0.43674.26.23.0.0.0.0.314.2723.8j11j2j1.22.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.Rg7uv_KVzuY) . Also check out Dr. Scott Hahn (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dr+scott+hahn+bible&oq=dr+scott+hahn+bible&gs_l=youtube.3...32503.33577.0.33932.5.5.0.0.0.0.143.520.1j4.5.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.Vb0Bk8GcpNc)

umannyt: "Catholics are too wrapped up in their rituals and traditions

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/umannyt/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_290050544.html

History | Permalink | Share it

pup333

65 Fans

2 hours ago (12:30 AM)

I would say at least 2/3 of the people on this site are here to discredit the Catholics and just plain argue as they have nothing better to do. Save your breath.If you go to different sites you would see the same names discrediting that site as well. Nothing else to do.You won't get a civil comment back.

pup333: I would say at least 2/3 of the people on

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/pup333/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_290056284.html

History | Permalink | Share it

HUFFPOST SUPER USER

Drom

490 Fans

7 hours ago ( 8:14 PM)

With both popes dressed in white, it's hard to tell which is the bride and which is the groom. Either way, wishing them a long and happy marriage. Dog bless 'em.

Drom: With both popes dressed in white, it's hard to tell

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Drom/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_290011322.html

History | Permalink | Share it

Oak of Magellan

194 Fans

6 hours ago ( 8:52 PM)

The way it's going, it will end up quickly in a divorce - oh, wait a minute, the catholic church doesn't allow divorces. They will have to keep on fighting and gainsaying each other until death do them part!

Oak_of_Magellan: The way it's going, it will end up quickly in

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Oak_of_Magellan/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_290019120.html

History | Permalink | Share it

BannedInBoston

Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

2362 Fans

12 hours ago ( 2:45 PM)

Ka-BOOM! ( = "exploasive revelation" -- the only thing exploding is the Huffpost headline writer's head....)

BannedInBoston: Ka-BOOM! ( = "exploasive revelation" -- the only thing exploding

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/BannedInBoston/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_289920735.html

History | Permalink | Share it

HUFFPOST SUPER USER

Ladybug1

187 Fans

12 hours ago ( 2:34 PM)

Catholic history is littered with these old geezer's murdering each other over this kind of stuff. That new dude better watch out.

Ladybug1: Catholic history is littered with these old geezer's murdering each

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Ladybug1/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_289917065.html

History | Permalink | Share it

phil i stine

187 Fans

12 hours ago ( 2:25 PM)

maybe the private visitors should keep private comments private.

phil_i_stine: maybe the private visitors should keep private comments private.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/phil_i_stine/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_289914188.html

History | Permalink | Share it

HUFFPOST SUPER USER

losingitbigtime

Proud Member of The Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy

362 Fans

13 hours ago ( 1:56 PM)

Quisnam blandior?

losingitbigtime: Quisnam blandior?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/losingitbigtime/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_289904825.html

History | Permalink | Share it

flowerdriver2

19 Fans

15 hours ago (11:56 AM)

I am no Theologian, but I seem to remember that the 'Latin Mass' was stopped at one time.What is the big deal with Latin. It is probably correct to say Jesus spoke Aramaic.I remember a a kid seeing the cards on the Altar, which the Priest read from in Latin. I thought it was move forward, when The Catholic Church moved to English, and the Altar rails were removed. It seems to me, that Benedict was bringing the more conservative ways back. I am a practicing Roman Catholic, but I am more concerned about Jesus, than any hocus pocus. I once said to a Priest, that the nearer some people got to God, the further they moved away from Jesus.

flowerdriver2: I am no Theologian, but I seem to remember that

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/flowerdriver2/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_289865810.html

History | Permalink | Share it

Asmondius

286 Fans

12 hours ago ( 2:38 PM)

'I am more concerned about Jesus, than any hocus pocus'

For a Catholic, you sure have a Protestant point of view.

Don't run out and get an agent just yet.

Asmondius: 'I am more concerned about Jesus, than any hocus pocus'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Asmondius/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_289918422.html

History | Permalink | Share it

HUFFPOST SUPER USER

Ladybug1

187 Fans

11 hours ago ( 3:42 PM)

One caveat "the nearer some people get to man centered religion, the further they move away from Jesus. The Catholic & Roman Catholic Church both have serious problems deeper than language chosen for prayer . For example: infant baptism- baptism is an intelligent public

declaration of Faith -which babies cannot conscioulsy or physiology do..They cannot consciously repent/parent's can't do it for them that -The practice negates the Gift of free will God bestowed on all human's. Another example-Peter was never designated the "leader of the Apostles (MT16:18) they argued who was the greatest (MK 9:24 and came to know resolution. Each chosen Apostle had their Devine charges to preach the Gospel. Acts 15- Peter did not preside over the Jerusalem Church council as claimed by the Catholics.And then there is Mary-she had only one role in history-to bring Christ into the world through the Devine birth. Afterwards; she steps off into the pages of history - the Bible say nothing else about her, yet Catholic seem to think she had devinely inspired supernatural powers. she certainly played no role in salvation-only Jesus has that authority.And then are are your popes- not designated or a named anywhere in the Bible as head of "the Church"-salvation of God/not sacrement's.-repeating rosary's etcYou are free to believe whatever you want; I'm glad you are concerned about Jesus.but remember this -the only Church is Jesus

Ladybug1: One caveat "the nearer some people get to man centered

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Ladybug1/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_289938979.html

History | Permalink | Share it

HUFFPOST SUPER USER

frjohnmorris

48 Fans

10 hours ago ( 4:49 PM)

Mary certainly did play a role in our salvation. She is the Second Eve, whose obedience to God liberates us from the curse of death that came into the world due to the disobedience of the First Eve. She represents all humanity saying yes to God. Christ has two natures human and divine. He received His human nature from Mary, who is the Theotokos, the Birthgiver of God because Christ was God in the flesh from the moment of His Incarnation.Infant Baptism is the ancient practice of the Church that goes back to Apostolic times and is the Christian equivalent to circumcision which was done to infants. Finally, I am not a Roman Catholic, but even Eastern Orthodox who reject the claims of the papacy, recognize St. Peter as the Chief of the Apostles.

frjohnmorris: Mary certainly did play a role in our salvation. She

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/frjohnmorris/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_289960207.html

History | Permalink | Share it

There are More Comments on this Thread. Click Here To See them All

HUFFPOST SUPER USER

Raymond H Burgoon-Clark

elderly gay anglo-catholic socialist Democrat

94 Fans

15 hours ago (11:17 AM)

Latin is the gold standard of the Church, like the Greenwich Observatory is to time-keeping.

That said, there are numerous Rites within the Roman Catholic Church. The "Latin Rite"refers to the CEREMONIAL, *not* the language. The "Latin Rite" is now celebrated in many languages.

LATIN SHOULD BE ONE OF THEM.

I used to attend the "Extraordinary Form" (Tridentine) High Mass at St. Mary's Church, Huntington Beach, California, until the Bishop suppressed it and sold the land for condos so he could pay off some of the abuse lawsuits (!).

Anyway ... it was standing room only, and I would wager that aside from the elderly priest and me (I'm seventy years old), there wasn't a SOUL in that church who remembered the Latin Mass from "Before Times." They were young families with toddlers, teenagers, etc. I'd say the average age of the congregation was around forty, if that. They sang not only the responses, but Mass IX from the Kyriale (Feasts of the Blessed Virgin Mary) and Credo III, and they did it without organ accompaniment! They were led by a small men's choir in the choir loft. Mass IX is one of the most beautiful in the Kyriale, but it's NOT easy. They had it DOWN PAT.

There are success stories like that all over the map in the US.

Raymond_H_Burgoon-Clark: Latin is the gold standard of the Church, like the

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Raymond_H_Burgoon-Clark/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_289853238.html

History | Permalink | Share it

HUFFPOST SUPER USER

frjohnmorris

48 Fans

10 hours ago ( 4:57 PM)

I do not understand why a compromise could not be reached. Why not translate the old Latin Mass into English and keep the old ceremony which is much more impressive and mystical than the Novo Ordo. That is what the Orthodox did. We translated our services into English, but did not change the ceremony.

frjohnmorris: I do not understand why a compromise could not be

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/frjohnmorris/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_289962638.html

History | Permalink | Share it

puzzled500

162 Fans

9 hours ago ( 6:06 PM)

Why not use Aramaic, like Jesus did?

puzzled500: Why not use Aramaic, like Jesus did?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/puzzled500/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_289981791.html

History | Permalink | Share it

pup333

65 Fans

3 hours ago (12:15 AM)

I still remember most of the responses in Latin.

pup333: I still remember most of the responses in Latin.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/pup333/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_290054241.html

History | Permalink | Share it

HUFFPOST SUPER USER

Saidas

160 Fans

16 hours ago (11:09 AM)

Oh for heaven's sake. Why can't they just enjoy a nice game of dominoes, drink espresso, and complain about politics like other men their age in Rome?

Saidas: Oh for heaven's sake. Why can't they just enjoy a

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Saidas/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_289850671.html

History | Permalink | Share it

Jeaccuse

31 Fans

16 hours ago (10:43 AM)

I don't know but the more layers of onion that we discover about this pope, the less I like him.I think he is going the be the worst pope ever. Always trying to appease the populace by accepting subjects that have been settled centuries ago. OMG, why have You forsaken us?

Jeaccuse: I don't know but the more layers of onion that

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Jeaccuse/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_289842186.html

History | Permalink | Share it

pssadipiombino

237 Fans

14 hours ago (12:23 PM)

I could not disagree with you more, Jeaccuse, and millions upon millions of people, from all faiths and all of walks of life disagree with you. too. Pope Francis is a man of true faith, humble, wise and compassionate. What you see is what you get. I love this man and I think he is just what the Catholic Church needs.

pssadipiombino: I could not disagree with you more, Jeaccuse, and millions

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/pssadipiombino/pope-francis-benedict-latin-mass-restriction_n_4038259_289874614.html

History | Permalink | Share it

Deborah Marshall

Taking life with the good and the bad and sometime

140 Fans

17 hours ago ( 9:49 AM)

I don't believe this is really an issue to be concerned with there are bigger issues.