BUSINESS ENTERPRISE PROGRAM of OREGON BECC MEETING

Wednesday, December 28, 2016, at 3:00 PM

OREGON COMMISSION FOR THE BLIND535 SE 12th Avenue (Portland office)

Conference line: 404-443- 6397 Participant code: 943611#

Agenda

Any of the agenda items below may become an action item.

1. Call To Order

2. Adoption of minutes

3. Appointment by BECC for Vacancy of Salem Area 2 BECC Representative, as allowed per Section 305 of the BECC By-laws.

4. Public Comment - Suspend the practice decreeing an "appropriate time" and allow during business items and as well during open comments.

5. Training and Education

6. Committee Reports

7. Old Businessa. Sub-Contracting Issueb. DOJ Opinion c. Implementation Pland. BEP Rules Drafte. Financial/Program Information f. Retirement

8. New Businessa. Unassigned Vendingb. Requests for Assistance Derrick Stevensonc. Requests for Assistance Lin Jaynesd. Operating Agreementse. National Training Sponsorship

f. Labor and Industriesg. Douglas County Cafeteriah. 2017 Legislative Session/Legislation

9. Other Business

10. Director’s Report

11. Open Discussion

12. Next Meeting

13. Adjournment

VERBATIM

[Started at 00:01:00]

Hauth: Okay. Well, we have a lot to cover today and so let’s go ahead and call the meeting to order. I will ask for a roll call and make sure… we’ll start with the Board first of all. Jerry Bird, are you on the line?

Bird: Here.

Hauth: Hey, Jerry. Derrick Stevenson. Vice Chair Derrick Stevenson, are you on the line? [Silence.] Derrick? Derrick Stevenson, are you on the line? [Silence.] Okay, well, we’ll reach out to Derrick. Steve Gordon, are you on the line? [Silence.] Steve Gordon, are you on the line? [Silence.] Okay, do we have Steve Gordon or Derrick Stevenson? Are you on the line?

Gordon: Steve Gordon.

Hauth: Hey, Steve Gordon. Welcome. Welcome. Thank you. Steve Jackson, are you on the line?

Jackson: Yeah, Steve Jackson’s right here.

Hauth: Okay, Steve, good afternoon.

Jackson: Hey guys.

Hauth: And Randy, I’m on the line.

Jackson: Good afternoon.

Hauth: I’m going to try for Derrick Stevenson again. Are you on the line, Derrick? [Silence.] Okay, well, I’m sure he’ll announce if he pulls in.

Jackson: It’s three on the dot.

Hauth: Are you on the…? We do have a quorum. Lewanda Miranda, are you on the line? [Silence.] Okay. Cathy Colley-Dominique, are you on the line? [Silence.] Cathy Colley-Dominique, are you on the line? [Silence.] Char Mckinzie, are you on the line? [Silence.] Harold Young, are you on the line? [Silence.] Lin Jaynes, are you on the line? [Silence.] Lin did just… so everybody knows, Lin did tell me she was in the hospital with her husband last night and wanted me to convey that along. She might join in, but not quite sure. So. Salvador Barraza, are you on the line? [Silence.] Art Stevenson, are you on the line?

StevensonA: Yes I am.

Hauth: All right. Welcome, Art. Carole Kinney, are you on the line? [Silence.] Okay, Carole Kinney, are you on the line? [Silence.] Gordon Smith, are you on the line?

Smith: I am here.

Hauth: Hey, welcome.

Jackson: Hey, Gordo.

Smith: Hi, guys.

Hauth: Tessa Brown, are you on the line? [Silence.] Tessa Brown, are you on the line? [Silence.] Okay, are there any guests that would like to announce themselves?

Edwards: This is James Edwards. I’m listening as a…

Jackson: Hello James.

Edwards: …[inaudible].

Hauth: Welcome, James. Anybody else would like to announce themselves?

Haseman: Linda Haseman.

StevensonD: This is Derrick. I’m here.

Hauth: Okay, we heard from Linda Haseman. And welcome, Derrick. Derrick Stevenson’s on the line. Okay, is there anybody else that joined in that did not have their name called that would like to announce themselves? [Silence.] All right. Well… and Eric Morris did say he was

representing the agency. Are there any other agency staff? [Silence.] Okay. Well, like I said a few minutes ago, we have a lot to… to work through today. And, you know, I look at this meeting as not only a chance for us to ask questions get some of our unanswered questions answered, but also to identify, on the record, issues and concerns that we may have. And also look at moving forward with how we will address systematically some of the more serious or egregious concerns that we have and so forth and so on. So I’d like to welcome you all and thank you for joining. I do share concerns that there are a number of managers that are not here. This is… this is certainly an opportunity for those managers. This program is also those managers’ livelihood. We need to work through these issues together, as a village and as a team, and hopefully in the near future we’ll be able to have a little bit better participation of those managers. But, with that said, we’re going to do our best to address the issues and advocate, not only for them, but also for the program and ourselves.

So, moving right ahead, I’d like to ask for a motion to adopt the BECC minutes, both of, I believe, November 15th and also December 8th. Do I have a motion for the adoption of that?

StevensonD: I so move.

Hauth: Derrick Stevenson has moved to adopt those minutes. Do I have a second?

Jackson: I second. Steve Jackson.

Hauth: Steve Jackson seconded. Are there any… are there any… I apologize. Are there any deletions, corrections, comments on the minutes? [Silence.] Okay, any discussion? [Silence.] Okay, and motion’s been made and a second. Would like to call… roll call vote, yay or nay signified by. Steve Gordon. [Silence.] Steve Gordon?

Jackson: You’re on mute, Steve.

Gordon: Sorry, I muted.

Jackson: There you are.

Gordon: Yay.

Hauth: Okay, Steve Jackson.

Jackson: Yes.

Hauth: Derrick Stevenson.

StevensonD: Yes.

Hauth: Jerry Bird.

Bird: Yes.

Hauth: And myself, yay, so the vote [inaudible]. Okay, so, moving right along, we have an item that came to us before… or after, I’m sorry… following the agenda, the original agenda, initial agenda being sent and that’d be item number three on the agenda, and that’s the appointment by the BECC to fulfill the vacancy. As most of you know, Harold Young resigned his position and so we’ll need to fill that, in compliance with section three… compliance with section 305, the BECC bylaws for Salem area 2. The way I understand that is that the Elected Committee has the right and the obligation to fulfill that position. It first falls on persons from that area. And so, do we have any nominations from… or for persons from Salem 2 to fulfill that position?

Jackson: Chair, it’s Steve Jackson.

Hauth: Okay, Steve.

Jackson: Could I… I’d like to nominate Art Stevenson, if he would… if he would take it.

Hauth: Okay. Nomination for Art Stevenson. Are there any other nominations from that area? [Silence.] Any other nominations from that area? [Silence.] Okay, are there any other nominations from that area? [Silence.] Okay. Hearing no nominations, I still would like to ask for a vote of the Board. Even though we could do this by acclamation, I’d still like to request a vote of the Board, for Art Stevenson to represent the Salem 2 area… as a BECC Board member. Art, you do accept the nomination, correct?

StevensonA: Yes, I do, Mr. Chairman.

Hauth: Okay. I would like to have a motion to accept Art as BECC representative for Salem 2. [Silence.] Do I have a motion for that?

Jackson: Yes, I’d make a motion, Steve Jackson, make a motion to…

Hauth: Okay. Do I have a second on that?

Gordon: Yes. A second on that.

Jackson: Could we make the motion more formal? I’d like to make a motion…

Hauth: Not yet.

Jackson: All right.

Hauth: Yep. So, a motion and a second’s been made. Any discussion? [Silence.] Okay, I’d like to again ask for a roll call vote. I would start by Derrick Stevenson, yay or nay?

StevensonD: I abstain.

[00:10:05]

Hauth: Okay. I would like to call upon Steve Gordon.

Gordon: [Inaudible.]

Hauth: Okay. Steve Jackson. [Inaudible.]

Jackson: Yes. I say, “Yes.”

Hauth: Jerry Bird…

Bird: Yes.

Hauth: … yay or nay.

Bird: Yes.

Hauth: Okay. And I will also cast my vote for yes. So, Art, welcome aboard.

Jackson: Welcome, Art.

Hauth: Okay. I would… I would like to share with everybody, you’ve seen the motions that have been submitted to the agency and you’ve seen the responses from the agency relative to matters that the agency deems fall outside of their authority through active participation; those being committee matters. So, even though we don’t necessarily have to adopt my motion, Art’s appointment to the Board, or so it appears… I still believe that it’s better to be… better to go the extra mile and be safe than sorry and make sure that we’re doing things in the most formal format that we can. Again, there’s a couple of other items on here that I’d like to address that I don’t believe the agency will be involved with, the agency will cite as not being a responsibility to actively participate in that. But, still, on those issues I’d still like to call for a vote of the Board as we go forward. Again, Art Stevenson, welcome… welcome aboard.

I also want to remind all the Elected Committee that potentially any of these items that we’re dealing with could be a conflict of interest. I’m seeking some consultation on how best to address this, if we can simply state a conflict of interest at the beginning of the meeting, similar to what we do as far as notifying that any item will be an action item, or if we need to do that prior to any business item. But please keep that in mind and state your conflict of interest prior to anything that potentially may be a conflict of interest.

Did anybody join us who would like to identify themselves, who missed out on the roll.

Brown: Tessa Brown. Called in. Sorry for being late.

Hauth: That’s all right. Thank you. So…

Moore: Jeanne-Marie Moore.

Hauth: Hey, Jeanne-Marie. Welcome. Welcome. So, public comments: this is one of the things that we don’t necessarily have to address by a motion, but I will call for a motion and a vote from the Board to do this. I, as the… I, as the Chairperson, and I believe with the support of the Elected Committee and the membership, really want to strive for more communication, more comment, more involvement, not only from the managers and the Board, but also for interested parties. And so, the practice has been to limit public comment to three minutes. And I know we’ve addressed recently to have open discussion at the following of the meeting. My… my recommendation is… is that we do not have a time limit on our public comments at the beginning of the meeting. We still allow for that. And, just so you know, if a comment is on and on and on, you know, is becoming problematic I believe we can address that at that time. I don’t think that’ll be an issue. But I think it will encourage people to share their comments and concerns. At the following of the meeting we also want that chance to have open discussion and open comments because items may be addressed during the meeting that we want to think through and we want to address properly. And, you know, with the comments being at the beginning of the meeting we just simply don’t have the time to do that. Also, I would propose that, during items of business… of course, as you know, and through the rules, Robert’s Rules, the Elected Committee… and through our bylaws and so forth and so on, we have the right to be heard on all business items. I would also like to open that opportunity following the Board discussion, following managers’ discussion. But I would also like to open that up to other participants who may want to join in and share their comments prior to any vote or proposed vote. And so, you know, if it… if it does become a problem down the line we can address it, but I totally believe more… more involvement and more communication is going to be a better thing for us all. And it takes away anybody’s concern of us limiting that. So, if… if you will allow me, I would like to [inaudible] a motion to suspend the current practice and to allow for expansive public comment, at the beginning, at the end, and during the business for the Board, licensed blind managers and interested parties. Do I have a second on that?

StevensonA: I second that motion, Chair Hauth.

Hauth: Art… Art seconds that. Any discussion from the Board?

StevensonD: Yeah, this is Derrick.

Hauth: Okay, Derrick.

StevensonD: Yeah, I… I… I for one don’t really have a problem with people speaking, but I’d like to just through out there that anybody that is on the OCB Board should not be considered

public because of course they’re… they’re… they’re part of our program, whether they want to admit it themselves or not. So, I just want them to know that they’re not… I don’t think we should be considering them as… as the public. And, uh…

Hauth: All right. Well, thank… thank you for your comment, Derrick. Is there anybody else that would like to comment, on the Board? [Silence.] Okay. Any licensed blind vendors that would like to comment? [Silence.] Okay. Any interested parties that would like to comment? [Silence.] Okay. Hearing none, we’ve had a motion, we’ve had a second. I would like to do a roll call vote. Derrick Stevenson, can you hear me? [Feedback.]

StevensonD: Yes.

Hauth: Is that James? [Silence.] Derrick Stevenson, yay or nay?

StevensonD: Yay.

Hauth: Steve Jackson, yay or nay? [Silence.] Steve Jackson?

Jackson: Yes, I would. Can you hear me? Yes.

Hauth: Yeah. Okay, yay or nay?

Jackson: Yay.

Hauth: Okay, Steve Gordon, yay or nay?

Gordon: Yay.

Hauth: Jerry Bird, yay or nay?

Bird: Yay.

Hauth: And Randy Hauth, yay or nay. And I vote yay. Okay, well thank you very much.

StevensonA: Mr. Chair?

Hauth: Yes, Art?

StevensonA: Can I vote?

Hauth: Oh, I’m sorry, my friend. I forgot about you.

StevensonA: [Laughs.] I vote yay, Mr. Chair.

Hauth: All right. Thank you. Thank you very much. So, that motion passes and we will submit it to the agency, sharing our position and change in practice. As well, there’s another thing that I’d like to address: Director’s comments, as practiced, have been at the end of the meeting and what I’ve found to occur is that many times Eric has to run for a bus or many times there’s very little discussion or comment. And I don’t know if that’s because of the time constraints and that but I would also like to suspend the practice and move that item, the Director’s comment portion, to the beginning of the meeting, where most Director’s comments are. If you look at the Commission for the Blind, before business you’ll have your reports and Director’s comments. And so, just to share with you my thoughts again is, that way, Eric can have ample time, as an integral part of this program, to share updates, what’s going on with the program. And then, also, we can have ample time to address and ask questions. So I would like to make a motion to suspend the practice of having Director’s comments at the end of the meeting and move those to following public comments, before training and education. Do I have a second on that?

Gordon: I second it. Steve Gordon.

Hauth: A motion and a second. Is there any discussion from the Board?

StevensonA: Mr. Chair?

Hauth: Yes, Art?

StevensonA: Yeah, I do think that’s great. I know we used to get a report… the Elected Committee used to get the report before, you know, at least what… what… what the Director was going to talk about, so if there was an item that the Elected Committee definitely wanted to hear about, they could let him know, so that he would be prepared to discuss that particular issue. And so, I’d like to make a friendly amendment, you know, that the Elected Committee and… and the managers receive what is on the agenda for the Director’s comments, so that issues could… that we wanted definitely talked about and addressed were definitely covered and that he had time to prepare for them.

Hauth: Well, I’ll tell you what, Art, if you make a concise friendly amendment to that motion I will certainly act on that.

StevensonA: I would like to make a friendly amendment that we receive what’s going to be discussed in the Director’s report a week beforehand, so that if there were issues that anybody wanted to make sure that the Director covered, that we were given those things.

Hauth: Okay. So, a friendly amendment has been made and I will accept that. Will the seconder… seconder of this motion accept this as well? Who seconded that motion?

Moore: Steve Gordon.

Jackson: Steve Gordon, I think.

Hauth: Okay, Gordon, Steve, do you accept that friendly amendment as well?

Gordon: Yes.

Hauth: Okay. So, thank you. Any more discussion? [Silence.] Okay, any discussion from the managers? [Silence.] Any discussion from the interested parties or guests?

Moore: Randy…

Bird: Randy?

Hauth: Hold on just a… hold on just a second, Jerry. Yes, Jerry, if you were on mute, let me go back to you. Go ahead.

Bird: I was just wondering one little thing: Would the Director’s report, what you’re saying, would that be before public comments, so they… if they want to comment about his report, they could? That’s all I have.

Hauth: Well, that’s a… that’s a good point. I think we can, you know… I think the point being is that we’re going to change the practice and, as long as the Board accepts doing that, I don’t believe that the agency will have any problem with providing that report earlier on. So, yeah, I mean, that’s… that’s something I believe that we can do as like a housekeeping item, Jerry. So, again, I don’t think this has to be a motionable item, so let’s keep this simple as we can. Again, it just… I believe it… It makes it more… more formal this way. So, I believe I heard Jeanne-Marie maybe wanting to make a comment.

Moore: Randy…

Hauth: Yes.

Moore: I don’t understand Robert’s Rules of Order as much as other people, but I have always understood that the Chair or the President was not the person who would make motions, which means you’d have to have a discussion with at least one other person prior to your meeting to have someone else make the motions. That’s all.

[00:24:09]

Hauth: Yeah, Jeanne-Marie, I believe that the Chair can make motions. And I know and I believe in our… in our bylaws that allows that. I’ll check into that and certainly get back with you. But, again, as a housekeeping item, I believe that the Chair can just simply, you know, request… I believe it’s just going to be much more functional for Director Morris to give his report early on and I just want to make sure that the Board is accepting of that as well. So… so thank you,

Jeanne-Marie. Any more discussion? Okay. Hearing no more discussion, I’d like to ask for a roll call vote on that. Derrick Stevenson, yay or nay?

StevensonD: Yay.

Hauth: Okay, thank you. Art Stevenson, yay or nay?

StevensonA: Yay.

Hauth: Thank you. Steve Gordon, yay or nay?

Gordon: Yay.

Hauth: Thank you. Steve Jackson, yay or nay?

Jackson: Yes.

Hauth: Okay, thank you. Jerry Bird, yay or nay?

Bird: Yay.

Hauth: Thank you. Randy Hauth, yay or nay. Yay. Thank you very much, guys. And we’ll submit that along to the agency as well. So, thank you for those housekeeping items and getting those out of the way and we’ll get into the meat and potatoes of our meeting. Training and Education: I don’t know, and maybe you guys can correct me on this. I don’t know that we have a current training and education committee. I do know we have a couple of items we’d like to talk to Director Morris about. So, I know I was going to ask Lewanda Miranda, if she was on the line, if she had any interest in being involved in heading up the training and education committee. And, being that she’s not on the line, I will go ahead and reach out to her. But am I correct, you guys, or incorrect? Is there a training and education committee currently? Does anybody know?

StevensonA: Mr. Chair?

Hauth: Yes?

StevensonA: Yes, there is not. In fact, at one of the meetings… or I sent out an email, suggesting to the Elected Committee that a training and education committee be set up in order to work with the agency in planning In-services and other things. And so we do not have a training and education committee at this time. But I agree with you that we do need to set up and have a training and education committee. And… and I would concur with you in asking Lewanda Miranda to be the Chairperson of that committee.

Hauth: All right, thank you. Is there any other comments on this subject?

Jackson: I’d like to… Can I say something? Chair? Randy?

Hauth: Sure.

Jackson: I would just like to ask Eric for ample time, if there was going to be any trainees coming to visit me at any of my locations, so that I could just be a little more prepared. It’s just… it’s… sometimes it’s dangerous in kitchens and when blind people are in there and they don’t know the rules it’s just too dangerous. And I just need… I just need more time, for people to give me advance notice. Pretty much. Please. Thank you.

Hauth: Yeah. Well, and that brings up a question for you, Director Morris. Is… I know this concern was brought to my attention about a month ago that there was a trainee that was sent over to the Bonneville Power Building to receive either some training or… I don’t know the proper terminology, but… if it was an evaluation or if it was a training, but… and maybe Steve Jackson can elaborate a little more on this. But it seemed like it was kind of helter skelter and there wasn’t necessarily a… advanced plan or even a BEP training curriculum. And I do know that the Elected Committee is required, through active participation, to work with the agency through active participation on developing such a curriculum and such a training. And so, can you tell me, 1) what the training… B.E., you know, what the BEP training curriculum is, how it was developed, how you guys are actually training new managers that are coming into the program? Because, to the best of my knowledge, there hasn’t been any active participation in that. Certainly, most recently, in the last couple of years. So.

Morris: So… I’m just trying to make sure I’m answering the right question there, Randy. ‘Cause the… the situation at the Bonneville Power Administration wasn’t helter skelter. The trainee was sent up to work through Eurest’s new hire training program. And what happened was, they had a multitude of new hires that week and so, the… obviously, somebody who’s visually impaired takes a little more… little more guidance and training when they’re going through that process. And so the manager there, the Eurest manager, didn’t feel comfortable having the trainee off by themselves working without some good supervision. So, we had to kind of shift gears and not have them working through the Eurest training program at that point. Right now, what we’re doing is we’re using the Hadley training program which, as I’m sure you guys are all aware, is made up of 12 modules and, as people work their way through the modules, we break them out and put them in locations, do hands-on training that’s relevant to whatever type of activity they’ve recently went through. Like the cafeteria module, then they would go out and spend some time in a cafeteria, working through, you know, a better understanding how things run, and then go through some more of the modules and then break out again to get more experience around the managing pieces of the modules. So, that’s the… that’s the process we’re doing right now.

[00:30:34]

Hauth: Okay. And, it was my understanding that this… this lady who is blind was sent over to the kitchen and the sighted staff there didn’t even know exactly how to train the person. Steve Jackson, you can weigh in on this because you were on the ground there and you received the concerns…

Jackson: Yeah.

Hauth: But, you know, Steve, maybe you…

Jackson: Yeah, I’ll talk. Yeah. The real deal is, like Eric said, there was new people coming into the kitchen and they were getting paid and… and the woman who was inquiring about the B.E. Program wasn’t necessarily getting paid and so she wasn’t, you know, being pushed to work as hard. Anyways, long story short, she shows up in the kitchen and I’m there and I found out like a day before on my email, maybe I read it late, a day or two, but I found out like one day in advance. And I worked with her for about two… I mean, a week and a half… probably, you know… So I ended up taking her around the BPA Building and showing her vending, showing her my C-store because they was just so busy in the kitchen and, you know, catering and stuff and too many bodies. And so, she was learning, but what she had told me that she had to do – a certain amount of time in cafeteria, a certain amount of espresso, and then she was going to learn about vending and so she was just kind of going where people have asked her to go. The… the part that was a little bit of a hassle is there wasn’t… I didn’t have quite enough time to even be ready to meet her when she should be there… stayed the whole time. And so I had to adjust as it… as it happened. So… so I’d just like her, you know, I’d like to tell everybody that I encouraged her that she could do well and she… and I told her she needed to get in touch with Eric to talk about what kind of facilities are available. That’s what I told her.

Hauth: Thank you. So, Eric, is there a… you know, I mean, this is important and obviously we don’t want to, you know, spend a whole bunch of time on it because we have a bunch of other stuff. But, simply asked, is there a B.E.P. training curriculum, one.

Morris: Yes. I just… I just explained to you what we’re doing, Randy.

Hauth: So, does that also go into the hands-on and, like, the hands-on kitchen… ‘cause it sounded like there were some problems, right? My understanding is VR was going to create a training curriculum that wasn’t only with the Hadley but it also included the hands-on preparation and…

Morris: Yeah, I think the… the piece…

Hauth: What…

Morris: …the piece that we really need to flesh out still is towards the end of the process. Because the Hadley combined with hands-on stuff provides a lot of good guidance but the piece that I was talking with Kathy Ewing the other day about is what we’re going to talk about later

on on the agenda today, is timely reporting, preparing reports and that kind of thing. That’s the piece that we haven’t fleshed out a whole bunch with. Is that going to be via classroom time with Kathy or is that sitting down with managers, going through, like, you know, their books and preparing it as an example to practice through or what the best approach for that’s going to be. We haven’t fleshed that part out yet.

Hauth: Okay. Will you assure the Elected Committee that you will work with us on this? Because it is certainly a major administrative… is clearly identified that the Elected Committee’s supposed to be working with the agency on training programs. And so, can you assure us that you’ll do that?

Morris: Well…

Hauth: And…

Morris: Randy, how would you guys like to be involved?

StevensonA: Mr. Chair?

Hauth: Yes, Art?

StevensonA: I’d suggest, you know, obviously we talked about the training and education committee. I believe we can go ahead and establish that committee. You can reach out to Lewanda and see if she’s interested and, if she’s not, then I would… I would suggest that you could go ahead and assign a different chairperson if she’s not interested. But we could go ahead and do that. And then that committee could start being involved in training and education and we can kind of guide that committee on what we want to see get done and active participation, etc. etc.

Hauth: Yeah. Thank you, Art. Yes. Is there anybody else… any Board member that would like to make a comment?

StevensonD: This is… am I off mute?

Hauth: Yes, Derrick, you are.

StevensonD: Yeah, I think… just… not… not to be rude or mean or anything but, to me, that’s… that was the most dysfunctional way of doing it that I’ve ever heard of. I mean, for… for one: you don’t discuss it with… with the manager who’s supposed to be taking care of the trainee and it doesn’t seem to be like there’s any kind of… of laid-out plan on… on what the manager is to learn at any certain time. I mean, you know, when you… when you’re training… and you have to know whether or not the person that you’re sending them to actually feels confident in training… training somebody. I mean, not everybody feels comfortable training people. I mean, and to me it’s like a person has to take all their time and take… and take this person around and

show them the proper way of using a knife, show them the proper way of using… using a slicer, show them, you know, all different kinds of things. And, in order to even evaluate whether the person should be in the program taking that kind of training or not. I mean, like we did before, you know, you went to a place, a predetermined place and you worked with… worked with a manager for two weeks and then, if that manager said yes, they… they were confident that they were going to be able to do that kind of work, then… then they’d go into more deeper precise training. But to just send them in and not have any discussion or any laid out plans on what… what the training’s gonna really exist of is just to me, you know, reckless.

Hauth: Thank you, Derrick…

Jackson: I agree. I agree with you, Derrick.

Hauth: Any other Board members that would like to make a comment?

Bird: Jerry Bird.

Hauth: Jerry.

Bird: Yeah, I’d like to just say I agree with Derrick. You know, it seemed like they just… like, didn’t give him enough information or time, Steve, to even bring a person in. ‘Cause they don’t seem to understand, it’s kind of disrespectful; you’ve got to drop everything you’re doing. You have duties you’re doing ‘cause these people are… basically know nothing hardly. And so… and, you know, most feel like you got to protect them and they become your responsibility, like handing you a little kid. You can’t do the rest of your work, so this is something that’s got to be organized and… and you can’t expect managers to have to just turn around and drop their stuff for… to do something like that. I mean, it all sounds great and nice to be a family like that, but that… that’s ridiculous. And, you know, a lot of people shouldn’t even have to do that. That’s why you have maybe one trainer in place because it takes a lot of time and responsibility and you’ve got your job to do, too. So, and then, you know, and then not being maybe, you know, in it for you. You know, they get their wages paid for or something and they don’t feel as good about we’re just training. So, I got to say, when I come in almost 30 years ago, it was a long training and we spent time making sandwiches. I mean, there’s… the Hadley School molecules is a fairly good thing for you to kind of read up on. But it’s nowhere close to being in the same building, doing the same thing each day, where… and… and… and taking little tests and you need to, you know, the books is part of it. So, like I say, the sandwiches, making your own soups. I mean, it was stuff that I knew a lot of that I wouldn’t need but you had to learn it all. And… and, like I say, the bookkeeping, knowing how to do your dailies and all that. And they’re failing most of our managers right now because they don’t seem to know how to get their books in on time, which it should be one of the first things taught. But it’s just [inaudible] and then shove you in a place and say, “Good luck.” You know, you’re almost put in a place to fail and that’s got to… you know, that effects all of our image. So, you know, them Hadley things isn’t even close ‘cause you’re sitting there… I took a couple of them. I mean, you read a story and then you answer some multiple questions. I mean, you’re at a computer, you can go back

to the other one. That does not train you in customer service, how to be around people, how to not touch a hot oven, you know, all this kind of stuff that people in our program must know to operate this thing, unless they just want to do the vending machines, you know. Then you won’t get burned that way but, you know, I don’t want to get smart or anything, but it’s just… it’s just we’re failing our licensed blind vendors by not training them properly. And when their license is, you know, that you can let them loose and you’re going to be proud of these people and they’re not going to be hardly making a living like, “Wow, why did I get in this.” So, there’s a lot to think about. So, anyway, thank you.

Hauth: Yeah, Jerry, thank you very much. And, you know, to answer your question earlier, Eric, you know, what do we want to be involved in? What I’d suggest is that we be involved as the Elected Committee in helping write the training plan. You know, helping write not only what needs to occur… I mean, I don’t know where the involvement has been previously, but what I’m suggesting from here going forward is we need to have a seat at the table in helping develop this and write the curriculum and write the criteria. You know, then years ago I believe is the last time a new vendor came in, other than Carole Kinney, who came in, you know, she had been in and out of the program and now she’s back. And I think, by her own self-proclamation, she’s failing in the location that she’s in currently. So, how was that training done? Is there any… are there any checks and balances? I mean, training is really important and if we’re going to grow the program and bring in qualified people we don’t want to set them up to fail. So, when I’m asking for your commitment, that’s to working in good faith with the Elected Committee to develop something that we can provide our expertise in as well, you know. And we can make something successful that’s gonna help… help support people.

StevensonA: Mr. Chair?

[00:42:43]

Hauth: Well, hold on just a second. Is that… is that something you can commit to, Eric?

Morris: Yeah, Randy. I think it’s a great idea.

Hauth: Thank you very much. Listen guys, and I do want to hear from everybody, we do have a lot of other things, but Art go ahead… go ahead.

StevensonA: Am I off mute?

Hauth: Yeah.

StevensonA: I am off mute? Okay. Mr. Chair, obviously, we have our committees, we’ve started to establish our committees. Obviously, training and education should be a part of that; also, the Rules Committee. And we’re getting back to the basics, which, you know, somehow got dropped. And so I think through our guidance, the Elected Committee’s guidance, that the appropriate committees can handle this situation and bring back recommendations to the

Board on rules, etc. etc. that need to be put together so that we make sure that everything’s done in accordance with the laws and rules and regulations of the program. So that would be my suggestion.

Hauth: All right.

StevensonA: Let’s… let’s guide our committees to do the work that, you know, should’ve been done and being done. But now that’s gonna happen.

Hauth: All right, Art. Thank you very much. Is there any comments from any licensed blind vendors? [Silence.] There are comments from any of the guests?

Moore: Yes. I just…

Hauth: Yes, Jeanne-Marie.

Moore: Thank you. I would like to suggest to you folks that, if you are interested in being heard and your recommendations being taken seriously, that… and I recognize it’s a challenge some of the time to take your… I would… Well, I would recommend eliminating things, talking about intentional… employing intentional disrespect, the fact that some things seem ridiculous to you, that kind of stuff is not going to engender the kind of relationship you want with Commission staff. And I think it really promotes a lot of the difficulty – I’ve said this to Art several times – it promotes difficulty, the kind of difficulties you’re trying to make amends for or change. I mean, with this discussion that I just heard today I thought, “Now, let’s see, the Commission is paying for this conference call line, right?” And… and I’m not saying, you know, grovel and be grateful but, gosh, I would have a hard time remaining unemotional hearing, you know, it implied that I’m intentionally disrespecting you guys. That’s just what I wanted to say.

Hauth: All right. Thank you, Jeanne-Marie. If I can move on, any other discussions before we move on? [Silence.] Okay. So, committee reports. I know that there were… again, there’s been a turnover in the Elected Committee as there… as there is, you know, from time to time. I know there was some committees formed before. I don’t know, I think there was some disbanded and, correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe right now there exist a transfer and promotion or Facility Development Committee. I believe that’s headed by Derrick Stevenson. And then I believe there is a Rules Committee that’s headed by Jerry Bird. Is that correct? Incorrect? Enlighten me, you guys.

Bird: This is Jerry.

Hauth: Jerry.

Bird: Yeah. Yeah, you’re right. And I have talked a little bit with my Board members and we’re gathering some handbooks and different things to kind of… so we can look at rules and stuff to bring. Just get more brought up to that and then get these holidays done with and then we’d

like to, you know, get together and start looking through them so we can get one that’s agreeable by all of us set and passed. I’m even thinking, you know, I mean the committee [garbled] go do that and then they bring you back your information and… and that. And then the Board and everybody gets to discuss it. But I think this might be so we all… ‘cause we’re kind of small, why we all couldn’t just have some meetings as a group and… and discuss some of these issues that we don’t like, maybe, you know. We can put up a little kind of an agenda to where we can do that and to where everyone kind of can have a little say and… and, you know, discuss the goods and bads. And let’s just try to get… I think it’s fairly close. There’s… you know, there’s not a whole lot you can put in and out of them but it’s just, I think, some wording and stuff that I think we all need to be fair on, like you say, together and work with the agency also, like we’re saying, under… under the same teepee. That’s what we got to all do. We go to… and I agree, we got to respect each other and put that behind on… stuff like that. But I’m thinking that, like your guys’ thoughts. But would that be something we could do to… I don’t know if we need to really go to a place. We could do it, I think, by phone call. I don’t know how many, but whatever it takes to get us through this and get us something that we can tell the RSA that we agree with and feel comfortable with.

Hauth: Jerry, Jerry, if I may, I think your comments are right… right spot on. I believe more inclusion is better; shouldn’t limit people, you shouldn’t leave people at arm’s… arm’s distance, right? And it’s clear that RSA has indicated there won’t be approving any rules until following the monitoring, which could be some time. I know that there’s a… employment freeze, a hiring freeze. And with the change in the administration there’s going to be a Commissioner leaving and another one coming in. And it’s my understanding that Jesse Hartle is the only person handling the entire state right now. So, if there’s a way that we can all come together for the betterment of the rules, right? Administrative rules aren’t simply administrative tools, they’re designed to enhance and stimulate the program, create new opportunities. So, however we can do that, if we can somehow engage with RSA… But, yeah. I know… I know the motion that was submitted to the agency was denied and that being, in sum, that, you know, to rescind the rules – and we don’t approve of the rules – but, basically, they’re rescinded already because RSA has put a kibosh on them, that I know, to my knowledge. And so if we can find a way to develop some rules that, again, will benefit the managers and benefit the program and benefit employment opportunities for people who are blind, that… that’s going to be a great thing. So I do want to hear from Derrick. I don’t know, Derrick, if you have anything you want to say or not before we move on, but I do want to hear from Derrick on his committee.

StevensonD: Yeah, I… I really haven’t been able to do much right now. My computer’s kind of screwed up and I… I can’t read email anymore, for… I guess my eyes have gotten to that point. So I’m going to try and submit a request from voc rehab to get me a computer that’s set up with JAWS and try and learn how to read it ‘cause I could spend, like, five minutes reading and… and I got a gigantic headache, the way I am right now. So I’m not really doing much in that respect. But I do think it’s… it’s something that, you know, we can do in a workshop, to just sort of outline what… what we’re gonna… what we need from the Commission for the Blind, as far as notices of new places being… being offered to us and then actually maybe getting them to go

out and make a list of all the locations that we… that we should have that we don’t. Coming up…

Hauth: Well, thank you. Thanks, Derrick.

StevensonD: … with a plan on how to do that is what we need to do.

Hauth: Yeah, and let me know, Derrick, if I can help you in any way. Please don’t hesitate to reach out and…

StevensonA: Mr. Chair?

Hauth: You know, I do believe… Yeah, Art, hold on just one…

StevensonA: Okay.

Hauth: …just one sec, please. I do believe that holding workshops is probably the best way to do it. Holding meetings we have to make sure that, as you know, that we’re all in compliance with public meeting laws. And, as far as teleconference lines and that, we can… we can access those. And, you know, I know we have to just comply with all those requirements, but maybe toward the… you know, after the first of the year, when things start to settle down and we can wrap our minds around making these committees functional, you know, that will be a good thing. So, Art Stevenson, yes, you wanted to be heard?

StevensonA: Yeah, I did. You asked for Derrick’s on that other one, but I did want to actually make a motion concerning rules and stuff ‘cause Jerry gave his report. The Elected Committee and all the managers supported a definition for active participation that was passed by the Elected Committee. It was also passed by the Commission Board. And we never got an explanation why that was unacceptable. And so, I right now would like to make a motion that we re-adopt our definition of active participation, that we recommend it be put into the current rules and, of course, put into the new rules. But I want to make that motion because I think it was a dang good definition. It spelled it out, active participation would’ve… there wouldn’t have been any doubts about it and so I want to make that motion, Mr. Chair.

Hauth: Well, do me a favor, Art. I will hear that motion. Clean that motion up and submit it to me and I will hear it. Right now. Please.

StevensonA: All right. I move that we adopt the definition for active participation that we… that the Elected Committee adopted in the first proposed handbook.

Hauth: Okay. A motion has been made. Do I have a second on that? [Silence.] A motion has been made. Do I have a…

Jackson: I second that. I second that motion.

Hauth: Steve Jackson’s a second. A motion’s been made and a second. Board members, discussion?

StevensonD: This is Derrick.

Hauth: Derrick.

StevensonD: So, is this… is this the one that we did when we were working with the confluence center?

StevensonA: Yes, sir.

Jackson: I believe… I believe it was, Derrick. It was a long time ago but, yeah.

StevensonD: Okay. Chair, I think it’s… it’s worth our time to try and get that accepted again by the OCB Board. I mean, like I said before, I think, you know, we should not be treated as the public when we’re at their meetings because, when they’re discussing issues that concern us, you know, through active participation we should be allowed to take part in that discussion and share… share our views and our thoughts instead of… ‘Cause right now, you know, they only get… they only get one-sided information, from Dacia and Eric, and we’re never allowed to comment or… or explain what… what we believe. So I think it… it’ll go a long ways to washing the hard feelings between everybody.

Hauth: Thank you, Derrick. Any other Board members’ comments? [Silence.] Okay, hearing no more comments from Board members, licensed blind vendors, any comments? [Silence.] Any comments? Okay. Yes? Any comments? [Silence.] Yes? Any comments? [Silence.] Okay, hearing no more comments, I call for the question. There is a motion and a second. Derrick Stevenson, yay or nay?

StevensonD: Yay.

Hauth: Art Stevenson, yay or nay?

StevensonA: Yay.

Hauth: Jerry Bird, yay or nay?

Bird: Yay.

Hauth: Steve Gordon, yay or nay?

Gordon: Yay.

Hauth: Steve Jackson, yay or nay?

Jackson: Yes.

[00:57:54]

Hauth: Okay. And Randy Hauth, yay. The motion passes. Thank you gentlemen. We have… moving on to old business, we have the subcontracting issue. At this time I would like to ask Board member Stevenson, Art Stevenson, if you could bring us up to speed or up to light on item a) here, if you’d like to handle this section of the agenda. [Silence.] Art?

StevensonA: Am I off mute?

Hauth: You are.

StevensonA: Okay. One of the issues of course not on the table is our right to subcontract. You know, obviously, there’s an AG’s opinion that… that says we may not be able to. However, I believe that we can and that we can also write administrative rules to be able to do teaming partners just like all the other states do. One of the… one of the things that, you know, I was really concerned about at the OCB meeting was that they were talking all about Mr. Gacos and his vending, that he was doing that, but nothing was mentioned to the Commissioners that actually over two-thirds of his vending facility is done under subcontracting or with a teaming partner, namely Dunkin’ Donuts and Nathan Hotdogs. Plus, he actually was subcontracting his milk machines, his milk vending machines. So, actually, his facility, over two-thirds of it is run under subcontracting. But none of the Commissioners was made aware of that. And so, I believe subcontracting is completely legal. That, of course, hopefully, the Rules Committee is going to write teaming partner language so that we can submit it and recommend it. But, you know, it’s really interesting that, you know, the agency was touting, you know, that Mr. Gacos was servicing his machines. But, of course, he was doing it all in one location, didn’t have the expenses that our people would have – vehicle expenses; storage expenses; and all that stuff – was conveniently not a part of his vending facility. But, anyway, to make a long story short, I believe… and everybody, all the blind licensed managers have seen the Chamoff opinion concerning subcontracting, that, you know, it is completely legal and language could be written. And, as a matter of fact, Mr. Chamoff’s firm actually contracts with agencies, state agencies, cities and stuff in writing administrative rules and… and giving guidance. So I would like to recommend to the Board… Well, in fact, I would like to make a motion that we request the agency, through management services, hire Mr. Chamoff’s firm to help guide us in writing appropriate rules to ensure that we’re allowed to have teaming partners, that, you know, there is definite parameters on how the blind licensed manager is controlling and being a part of stuff. And I believe we wasted $50,000 on writing rules with the Confluence Center, but I think…

Jackson: So make the motion.

StevensonA: Yep. So, anyways, I’d like to make a motion that we recommend that OCB hires, through management services expenses, Mr. Chamoff to help us write appropriate rules to administer this program.

Hauth: So a motion has been made and I will hear that motion. Do I have a second for that motion? [Silence.] Motion has been made. Do I have a second to that motion?

Gordon: I second it.

Hauth: Steve Gordon has seconded it. We’re going to open that for discussion. I do have a question, Eric, relative to the subcontracting issue. And correct me if I wrong, I’m trying to summarize the position of the agency, but the agency’s position is that, by the agency’s interpretation of the AG’s… assistant AG’s opinion, that it’s… it’s not proper for the licensed blind vendors to subcontract. However, it is okay and appropriate, apparently, for the Commission for the Blind to subcontract. So, can you tell me… bring me up to speed and enlighten me on how the agency is allowed to subcontract but licensed blind vendors aren’t?

Morris: Well, Randy, I think that… There’s two different questions there. The agency itself has statute authority to contract. It’s not subcontracting for us, it’s just contracting. The issue around subcontracting for the managers is… and I’m not a lawyer, nor will I profess to be one, but the way I’ve… understand it, is the AG’s looked at and said, “Well, by subcontracting, as a licensed blind manager, subcontracting isn’t fulfilling what the statutes say is… is being a licensed blind manager.” So, that… that’s the difference. The agency has statute authority to contract, so… so we can do that. But the licensed blind managers need to fulfill the actual statutes and perform those duties. And that’s… that’s what the opinion really came down to.

Hauth: Okay, and I will share with you… and that’s what I was trying to see what the agency was hanging their hat on because I see the agency nobbling up all these locations, and I know we’ll address it later in the meeting, but bringing in-house all this vending and it’s my understanding – and, again, I’m not a lawyer – but it’s my understanding that that interpretation can be read a number of ways. And, like Art has mentioned, Gregory Chamoff, who consulted the legislators for a number of years, actually said it says quite the opposite. I know, in talking with some of the legislators recently, they’ve also shared concerns with the agency’s position on this. So I was trying to figure that out. But the agency, in my understanding, and maybe you can check this out, does not have the authority to infer state statute. The agency only has the difference to infer their own rules. So, I believe for the agency – and I just want to put this on the record – for the agency to interpret or infer state statutes by way of the AG’s opinion is above and beyond their authority. Also, you’re well aware of the Freeman memo, correct?

Morris: So I… Can we step back just one second? I… I don’t understand what you’re saying by infer our rules. I… I didn’t understand that part.

Hauth: Interpreting the state statute is above and beyond the agency’s responsibility or authority. And so, when you’re saying the state statutes… you know, when you guys hang your

hat on the state statute and you go back to the state statute and say, “Oh, the licensed blind vendors aren’t in compliance with the state statute.” You guys don’t have the authority to do that. So that’s what I was…

Morris: So you want me to check on that? Is that what you’re saying?

Hauth: Well, sure you can. Yeah. Sure.

Morris: Okay.

StevensonD: This is Derrick.

Hauth: Go ahead, uh… Derrick. Yes.

StevensonD: Yeah, I think the more… thing is, is the Attorney General’s thing says if we’re not controlling the operation of… of the facilities that… that we’re breaking the law. And what… I think you’re trying to say, that, if the Commission for the Blind wants to make it a rule or… or submit some kind of… they’re… some kind of way that they’re want to interpret it then, you know, they have to… they have to write that rule. They can’t just basically do it without any input from the stakeholders prior to doing it. And, you know, the legislature and everybody else, you know, gets to weigh in and stuff before the Commission for the Blind can actually interpret. It’s just like what we were…

Hauth: Yeah, you’re… you’re exactly… you’re exactly right, Derrick.

StevensonD: Right. It’s just like we were trying to get them to do for quality, quantity and price is to… to interpret what that says. Or how…

Hauth: Yeah, and… Yeah, and just to weigh in on that, Eric, so when you seek that… when you seek that guidance or position, the state legislative assembly creates law, the ORSs. The agency does not have the… the Commission does not have the authority to interpret state statute. They only have the authority to interpret the rules. That’s my understanding and so, there. Any other comment by the Board?

Bird: Jerry.

Hauth: Jerry.

Bird: I just got a quick one ‘cause, you know, I… this has always been a thorn in my thing, but it doesn’t… The thing is, is they don’t even read the whole statute. Excuse me. [Coughs.] It says we’re responsible, it don’t say we’ll do it, that we’re responsible to have these three things done, to have the control. I don’t have it in front of me, but it… it don’t just say it’s illegal. It says that we must be responsible for these stuff to happen, which we… I believe we are. So that’s where I think the interpretation ends, for them. They’re just saying, “Well, you can’t… no

one… nothing else can happen.” And they don’t want to use that… them words. It’s like they don’t exist. I keep saying this, but they do. That’s why the Attorney General didn’t say it’s illegal. He said it is if any of these certain things or you’re not responsible to have them done. It don’t say you will personally do these. That’s what you want to try to say it means and it just don’t. What it says is, is that… which we do as far as routes. I don’t know what other people do that does the vending, but my companies that I subcontract with or partner with know it right up front that you work for me and you will not change a price, you will not do nothing, the people call me when they need a repair. They don’t… and they understand that, because I’m responsible for them being out there. I’m responsible for their work because I’m managing them. This is… so, I’m the one that gets, you know, and then, you know, then the Blind Commission comes back after me because you’re a blind person isn’t… isn’t making these people do… perform under the contract. So be it. It don’t mean that you’re personally out there mopping the floors. So that’s where I think they want to be… that it’s… that we’re caught in a disagreement which we need to… I mean, it’s got… It can’t be both ways. You just can’t [garbled] and it’s just illegal. And that’s as far as you say ‘cause you don’t say it’s that way. You got to read the whole thing and understand that, under certain conditions, it may be illegal, if you don’t do these things. So, once again, I’m down to it… it just don’t… I mean, got to look in a dictionary and stuff to know what these words mean. “Control,” if you “supervise.” I mean, we all know that… we can fall under that umbrella. And you’re trying to say, “No. The AG says no.” Their umbrella got shut, you know? “Can’t fall underneath that because of this.” But he didn’t. That’s why you left that open, but I can’t see why the agency won’t work with us on that. ‘Cause I think it’s a good thing. I want us to have these machines. I mean, I’m tickled. But it’s just that trying to say that it’s illegal and we can’t be independent and decide if we want them here want them there or how we want to run our own businesses as the sighted world does is just, to me, is wrong and, you know, that’s why it shouldn’t be that way. So I say, I mean, let’s all work together and it shouldn’t be forced and let’s make these vending machines really a good thing, not a…

Hauth: Thank…

Bird: Thanks.

Hauth: Yeah, thank you, Jerry. And I do want to say… I do want to say a couple of things here before we move along and I will ask for other comments. But we have some other items here that we need to address and some of these are similarly situated. But, point of record, the Commission for the Blind does subcontract. They subcontract for a number of services. And within their subcontracting requirements they control and direct their subcontractors. So for the agency to say that us as licensed blind vendors aren’t controlling and supervising our subcontractors when we have documentation that claims that that’s what they do through their services probably has some ADA implications, where there could be a violation of the American Disabilities Act and so forth and so on. And I don’t think this is something that we’re going to convince the agency to address differently, you know. There’s a lot of moving pieces here. We’re going to address it in a lot of different ways and hopefully we can all, at the end of the day, make this a good thing. But to this point it has not been because the agency has, you

know, taken the position and not really been open to a lot of communication, from what I’m understanding from a lot of folks. And so, hopefully, as we move forward we’ll be able to, you know, get… get to that sweet spot. So, is there any other discussion before we move on, on this?

StevensonD: Yeah, I just want to bring up one thing. One of the big things… I mean, sometimes it’s a big deal with the Commission for the Blind is that, you know, things are being done in the real world or, you know, in the public thing and I just wanted to bring up the fact that OIT went out for bid. They… they got one bid from a vending company who didn’t want to do the… do the food service and then they got one company that wanted to come in and do the food service but didn’t want to do the vending. So they ended up awarding the contract to the food vendor, who then subcontracted the vending company to take care of the vending. So it’s actually common practice, even with institutions like OIT. So we’re not… it’s not like we’re doing something that doesn’t happen all the time. And why we should be held at a higher standard just boggles my mind.

Hauth: Yeah, Derrick, and that’s one thing where the ADA comes in because it’s similarly situated. We’re blind, they’re not, so the… the slippery slope begins. And so, anyway, thank you for bringing that to our attention and making your comment. If there’s any other comment, or I will move on.

StevensonA: Chair Hauth?

Edwards: This is James Edwards.

StevensonA: Chair…

Hauth: Yes. Let me… let me hear from James, please, Art.

Edwards: Okay. I had a conversation with Dacia Johnson several weeks ago and… and this was one subject of conver… one issue that we… we discussed. Dacia’s comment to me was that she… and she has… because the Attorney General’s Office is her legal counsel, she is required to follow their advice and I can respect that because I know that’s how government works: if you have legal counsel, you’re required to follow their advice. However, she also stated that, if you want… if the… if you want to have teaming partner allowed then you have to change the law. So the only way that she could accommodate having teaming partners would be changing either the law by legislation or changing it in your rules, if you wrote rules that would allow it. So, it seems to me like the only way to have… to accomplish what you want to do is have the law changed to specifically allow it, or have rules written that would specifically allow it.

Hauth: Mr. Edwards, thank… thank you very much. And, just point of records, the current rules do… do allow for it. But you make some great points and observations there. Thank you so much. Art Stevenson, go ahead.

StevensonA: Am I off mute?

Hauth: You are.

StevensonA: Okay. Yeah, are we going to vote on the… on the motion?

Hauth: Yeah. Motion was made, a second was made. There’s been ample discussion. I will call for the question. Derrick Stevenson, yay or nay?

StevensonD: Yay.

Hauth: Art Stevenson, yay or nay?

StevensonA: Yay.

Hauth: Jerry Bird, yay or nay?

Bird: Yay.

Hauth: Steve Gordon, yay or nay?

Gordon: Yay.

Hauth: Steve Jackson, yay or nay? [Silence.] Steve Jackson, yay or nay?

Jackson: Yes. Sorry I’m late. Yes.

Hauth: Thank you. Okay, motion passes. And Randy Hauth, yay. Motion passes. Moving right along…

StevensonD: Chair?

Hauth: Yes.

StevensonD : I’d just like to make… just make one… one comment.

Hauth: Yes.

StevensonD: As far as the Attorney General’s Opinion, it nowhere in that Opinion does it direct the Commission for the Blind to do anything, other… it’s just an Opinion and it’s… and it’s up to the… they left it up to the Commission to try and interpret it however they want to. So it… it’s… we’re still in a… in a situation where they don’t have… it’s an Opinion. They don’t have to… there is no complete direction from the AG’s Office for Dacia or Eric to do anything. I just thought I’d…

Hauth: Yeah, thank…

StevensonD: …throw that in.

Hauth: Thank you, Derrick. You’re… you’re correct. My understanding is, it’s an informal opinion, it has no basis of law. The agency can decide on how to accept or modify, as I understand it. It’s not… it’s not… it’s not a legal opinion; only a legal opinion would be written by the Attorney General herself, as I understand it. But… Anyway, so… And, again, it goes back to the courtroom, so they have… they have the right to interpret the ORSs, not the agency. So, moving right along: D.O.J. Opinion. I don’t know that we have a lot to say on this because we basically covered it in the item a. If there’s anybody that wants to talk about this, feel free to. If not, we’re going to move along to the implementation plan. [Silence.] Okay, so we will move along to the implementation plan. I sent some information to Director Morris today and I don’t believe I’ve received a response yet. I have the… I have the agenda pulled up on my computer right now. But I would like to take this time to talk about the implementation plan and ask some specific questions relative to the implementation plan. And I’ll summarize my concerns here first and then, you know, turn it over to the other Board members and also ask Eric Morris to answer the questions that were submitted earlier to him as Director of the B.E.P. My understanding is, the implementation plan really came out of nowhere; there was no official meeting, there was no official vote, there’s no official minutes. And my concern is, is that the implementation plan, as I recall, was crafted behind closed doors with three of the Board members, I believe, at that time, negotiating on behalf – I guess that’s what they were claiming – negotiating on our behalf to, you know, implement this plan. There was no quorum of the BECC that I know of. There was no formal public meeting that I know of. There was no motion, there was no second, there was no discussions or roll call vote. So, with that, Eric, before I turn it over to the other Board members, if you can tell me how the implementation plan came to be and also address some of my concerns relative to public meetings and minutes and motions.

[01:23:10]

Morris: So, Randy, you’d… you’d sent me a note today to research back through some indefinite period of time, to see about motions and stuff like that. I did not have a chance to do that today, just for the record. We did have talks with members of the Elected Committee over the last, gosh, it’s December, so last, what, eight, nine months about the implementation plan? And I remember… if I remember correctly, one of the meetings, several people basically called out the Elected Committee and said they should go first. And so, as I recall it, the Elected Committee basically said, “All right. That’s what we’re gonna do.” So, that’s… that’s kind of how I recall it.

Hauth: Was there an official meeting?

Morris: I… I haven’t research that, Randy, but I mean, to be… to answer your question off the cuff, I don’t think so. Voting specifically on the implementation plan? I don’t think so. But I’ll qualify that by saying I haven’t went back through all the meetings and researched that yet.

Hauth: And do you have any minutes of the meetings that occurred?

Morris: Like I just said, I haven’t went back through and researched all that yet.

Hauth: Okay. Well, yeah. And, just so you know, that was under the concern is that there was no official process but all of a sudden this implementation plan comes up. And it even kind of almost… is concerning, just to share with you that, when you have public officials who at that time were on the Elected Committee and they’re negotiating for their own best interest and it appears now that those people are receiving, you know, equipment. It just raises a lot of red flags, especially when it’s not done in a public meeting. And that’s so strongly why we encourage those things to occur in the public arena, you know, in official business. Also, I identified that Carole Kinney, who was not on the Elected Committee, now is also going to be part of that implementation plan. So how did that occur? Was she in those meetings as well?

Morris: Not that I remember.

Hauth: So how does… how is the implementation plan unfolding?

Morris: In what regard?

Hauth: So, how are you determining… in one instance, how are you determining what equipment to replace? Like…

Morris: Oh, I got you.

Hauth: …it looks like the Eastern Oregon… Eastern Oregon route is going to be one of the first ones because that person was a volunteer. But it doesn’t look like the prisons associated with that are… you know, on the list there. And also, it doesn’t look like the pop machines are on the list there. And also, like Carole Kinney, she now somehow came into the implementation plan. And I’m just trying to make sense for all the managers and the Board, so we can wrap our mind around how this is… you know?

Morris: Gotcha. Okay. So what… what the Eastern Oregon route… that’s the… Obviously, Lewanda volunteered to go first. And that’s… it’s a good example of a good route to start with first ‘cause it is complex. She’s got roadside vending, she’s got a regular State building, like you pointed out, she has prisons. And so the first wave of machines for her route are roadside… primarily roadside vending. So that’s a different type of machine, as I’m sure all of you know, and some different challenges around that. So the first part of her route is being ordered… or was ordered as we speak. And then, up at PSOB, that’s pretty straightforward, local type of things. It’s not a whole bunch of machines so I figured it would be easy to order those and get

those installed fairly quickly and routinely. And then, down in Salem, same… same type of case with that. And then we’re just going to move through the… the implementation plan, unless the Elected Committee has some other recommendation you guys would like to tee up today. You know, that’s… that’s up to you guys.

Hauth: So, at this point, there was no official meeting, no official motion and no official minutes. Correct?

Morris: I still haven’t researched that.

Hauth: To your recollection?

Morris: To my recollection, yeah. But you asked me to go back through all…

Hauth: Okay…

Morris: You asked me to go back through all the minutes and stuff. And I’ll do that. I just haven’t had time to do it yet.

Hauth: Okay. I was not noticed of one, so…. Anyway, moving along, any Board members would like to weigh in on this?

Bird: Jerry Bird.

StevensonA: Chair Hauth.

Hauth: Jerry Bird.

Bird: Yeah, and I, you know, it’s kind of clear where we’re trying to go here, is trying to figure out was there a appropriate implementation plan done? And was it done properly? I mean, it’s pretty clear because that’s what we’re all concerned with not, you know, saying it shouldn’t be this and that. But I guess the thing that all of a sudden, you know, I get these letters from O.C.B. saying you’re a Board member now, you got to make sure you don’t do this and don’t do that and here’s the public meetings law, read… listen to them and all this. And then… and then I hear you guys, “Oh, we made some implementation plan meeting with some of these Board members behind closed doors.” And then we get Randy, well, okay… I think what our thing is, is “Okay, well how does that make official business or how we do things around here?” You discussed stuff with them, which is questionable too on how you done it. And then… and then, all of a sudden, “Well, now we decided that that’s how we’re going to do it.” And… and so Randy’s asking, “Well, were there any special meetings?” You know, a regular meeting that… ‘cause it’s a plan. It was an implementation plan that you’re rolling out that’s… that should be a written plan, like most things are, you know, on how we’re going to do it. And, of course, thing’s are gonna change, you know. It’s kind of a blueprint-type thing on how our [garbled] after we’ve all had our pow-wow and sit down and discussed it and all this stuff and then we

presented it at a meeting and had everybody get the time to discuss it and vote on it and pass it and give it our blessing. I think that’s what Randy’s trying to get at, without it almost sounding like we’re at a trial. I hate that it has to be this way. So, it’s kind of like, wouldn’t you say, Eric, that the proper procedures were not followed in making this plan, this plan would be considered null and void? Thank you.

Hauth: Thank you, Jerry. Any other comments from the Board members?

StevensonD: This is Derrick.

Hauth: Derrick.

StevensonD: I think I’d like to make a motion that the Board write a letter to OCB, asking them to cease and desist in… in implementing any… any such plans, until such time that all the eagle… the legal issues that have been brought up and the complaints that have been filed have been settled.

Hauth: So, a motion has been made, by Derrick Stevenson. Do I have a second on that?

StevensonA: I second it.

Hauth: Art seconds it. Any discussion from the Board?

[01:31:17]

StevensonD: I’ll just… I guess I probably already stated it well enough. I just… I just think that we’re going through all this problems and we’re still… the law is still uncertain on whether or not what they’re doing is legal until we have our fair hearing or arbitration. I think they’re just being reckless in… in forcing people to do that. And then, you know, you got… you got a bunch of machines out there that are gonna be serviced by possibly a teaming partner. Or, you know, you’re gonna get possibly lawsuits against the Commission for the Blind themselves for forcing managers to do this. So I think we should just stop until the legal process is… is finished.

Hauth: Okay. Any other discussion?

StevensonA: Randy?

Hauth: Yeah.

StevensonA: I can, you know, I can say there are certain things that they could do. They don’t have to completely stop. And our letter, obviously, should reflect that. A perfect example of that, Randy, and I brought this up in several emails that I have old, antiquated machines that I’m currently servicing that could be replaced, that have been problematic. And a perfect example of that is my snack machine at Mill Creek Correctional Facility. It actually should’ve

been replaced and I kind of requested that, you know, I be considered in that my machines that I know at any time could need a major overhaul and most definitely do need replacing, be replaced. So, to make a long story short, on this one we just spent $500 on a repair for this machine that, you know, if we had replaced it or had implemented… I mean, we’ve got this money for these machines, you know, that expense wouldn’t have occurred. So I think our letter should say, “Hey, replace the dog-gone machines that need replacing now, that are old and antiquated, so we don’t have to spend more money on repairs and do that. And so there’s certain things that can be done that should be done to be fiscally responsible in spending the money so that we save ourselves from… just like I gave this first example.

Hauth: Thank you, Art. Any other Board member… And just so you guys know, we have a half-hour to go, so… and we have some other business to do. So is there any other comment from the Board members on this particular item? I mean, it should be choice, right? Should be choice. And that’s what’s being conveyed to the legislators and that’s what, as far as I can tell, the legislative assembly is, uh… supporting at this time. So, any other comment from Board members? [Silence.] Licensed blind vendors, any comment? Okay…

Jackson: I’ll say one thing, Randy. Could I? This is Steve Jackson.

Hauth: Yeah, Steve.

Jackson: I really feel like it…

Hauth: Go ahead.

Jackson: Okay. I feel like it’s not very fair that… the way managers that are getting machines just decided that they got the machines. I don’t remember the vote. I don’t remember any of this. It seems like it should be a lottery or some kind of fair, you know, like, you know, you disperse the new machines, like Art was saying, where they need to go first. Have a… have a top list of people that need them the most and then you, like, have a lottery or something. Like, what’s the plan? I’d like to know the plan and I feel very concerned about this issue.

Hauth: Okay, thank you, Steve. Any other comments?

Haseman: Linda Haseman would like to comment.

Hauth: Okay.

Haseman: In watching this all through, I’m an interested party, as most of you are aware, and a stakeholder. I don’t remember ever being noticed of an implementation plan meeting where I attended and received notification that there was a quorum, a motion, a second, discussion, and then a official vote roll call and then approved minutes at the next meeting. So, everything I’ve observed, there was no implementation plan. It was done behind closed doors, in a back-door room somewhere, that no one even knows what it is. And that’s not how public officials

and public meetings are supposed to operate. And what I would recommend is, Mr. Morris made the statement earlier how within this meeting what you guys want. This is your opportunity to make a strong motion that you guys want choice, you guys want the choice to control your own businesses, to direct your own businesses, to supervise your own businesses and that means including having subcontractors that’s nationally accepted in the Randolph-Sheppard Act. This is your chance. Thank you.

Hauth: Okay, thank you. Any comments on that? [Silence.] Does anybody want to introduce a friendly amendment including choice into that?

StevensonA: Um…

StevensonD: I think… I’ll just amend my own motion and say that, you know, that Commission for the Blind should… should give people… all people choice, whether they want to be involved in servicing all their machines by theirselves and I’d go further to say that… in that letter we should say that they… if there’s equipment out there that needs to be replaced and is constantly breaking down, they should take precedence. And not…

Hauth: Thank you, Derrick.

StevensonD: …because… not because they’re a part of the implementation, but just because that’s what should be done.

Hauth: Yeah, thank you, Derrick. So Derrick has amended his own motion. Do I have a second to that?

Gordon: I second that. It’s Steve Gordon.

Hauth: Okay. Any more discussion before we call for the question? [Silence.] Okay. I’m calling for the question. Yay or nay, Derrick Stevenson.

StevensonD: Yay.

Hauth: Art Stevenson, yay or nay.

StevensonA: Yay.

Hauth: Jerry Bird, yay or nay.

Bird: Yay.

Hauth: Steve Gordon, yay or nay.

Gordon: Yay.

Hauth: Steve Jackson, yay or nay.

Jackson: Yes.

Hauth: And Randy Hauth is a yay. So that motion passes. Moving right along, B.E.P. draft rules. I believe we dealt with that earlier. So, unless there is any comment on this… Do I hear any comment on this? If not, I’ll move along to item e. Any comment on the draft rules? [Silence.] Okay. Hearing no comment, we’ll move along to financial program information. Does any of the Board members want to take on this discussion topic?

StevensonA: Mr. Chair?

Hauth: Yes, Art.

StevensonA: [Chuckles.] Well, you know, it’s been a bugaboo with me and... and so I definitely will. I sent out a definition of “relevant” to all the blind licensed managers and the Elected Committee. I think the definition of “relevant” is quite clear and concise. And… and, therefore, I believe, you know, that the agency is obligated by law, unless they can prove that it’s confidential information, to provide us access to the relevant information that we as the Elected Committee request and information that the blind licensed managers request. Because the law’s very specific; it doesn’t just say the Elected Committee, it says provide access to the managers. And… and so, you know, I was a little disappointed that Eric said he was waiting for the Elected Committee to weigh in on it because, in all actuality, the agency is supposed to administer the program, is supposed to know what is relevant and, if it is relevant, provide it to all of us. If it’s confidential information, then the Director should say “This is confidential information” and why, because it has to be in compliance with the laws and rules and regulations, federally and state-wide. And, therefore, there shouldn’t be any question. If documents are requested for information then it should be provided to all of us or to…

Hauth: So what do you… what do you suggest, Arthur? Make a suggestion.

StevensonA: Well, I, you know, like I said, I sent the definition out to everybody. And, obviously, when I explained, you know, the perfect example, that I requested a breakdown of the actual cost that we were being billed from the AG’s Office on… on different categories, that we be provided that… that information because it’s relevant information, as I said. For us to make wise decisions on how we can improve the way we’re doing business.

Hauth: Okay. Let me… let me ask Eric Morris… I know, I think we touched on this last meeting. You know, let me just state for the record that I… in my perception, I’ve had trouble getting information from the agency, program-relevant information. It’s been at times kind of a round robin, so… from my perception. And many times I’ve been forced through public records paying for information that I believe is relevant to the program. And so, I’m not sure why the agency in many instances wouldn’t be more sharing and transparent with the information. So, what…

what do we need… what do we need to do? Do we need to take a motion? I think we addressed this last meeting. Do we need to take a motion and direct you to provide information that fits the definition or… What would you suggest?

[01:43:57]

Morris: I think that would be good, Randy.

StevensonD: This is Derrick.

Hauth: Derrick, go ahead.

StevensonD: Yeah, the part… the part that I’m not understanding is why the Commission for the Blind would allow you to pay and get the information, but… and you have the right to that information if you pay, versus that we have a right to receive it, you know, without paying because, you know, it pertains to our program.

Hauth: Sure.

StevensonD: If it pertains to our program and we’re asking for documentation, the Commission for the Blind is obligated to give us that information. I mean, if somebody can go in there and order that information that isn’t in the program and just pay money and get it, we should be able to get that information just as well without paying.

Hauth: Yeah. I would agree. Any other comments from the Board members? [Silence.] Okay, do we… I will entertain the motion if somebody wants to make a motion.

StevensonA: Chair Hauth:

Hauth: Yes, Art.

StevensonA: I make a motion that when program-relevant information is requested by either the Elected Committee or a blind licensed manager that our Director either provide it to us or give us the confidential reason why he can’t provide it to us; otherwise, that the information be given to the individuals who request it.

Hauth: So a motion has been made. Do we have a second?

Jackson: I second that.

Hauth: A motion and a second has been made. Open discussion. Board members, any more discussion? [Silence.] Okay.

StevensonD: This is Derrick.

Hauth: I’ll just… I’ll just say quickly… I mean, I don’t understand why Eric feels that he is the only one that has a right to say whether something is relevant or not. I would think that a licensed blind manager or somebody on the Elected Committee finds that it’s relevant, that they… they receive this information. That should be right. I don’t think it should be Eric deciding by himself whether or not something’s relevant. I mean, that’s something to me that they put together just to avoid having to do their jobs and...

Hauth: Yeah. Well, I think it… you know, I would agree with you in some of what you’re saying there, Derrick, is that it should be anything connected to the program other than personal financials. And, clearly, look at unassigned vending is clearly program relevant and I was forced through public records to obtain the information. And so, you know, but what we’re doing today is trying to address that and I asked Director Morris what he wanted us to do and suggested we need to make a motion and he thought that might be the way to handle it. So we’ve made a motion and second. Any more discussion from the Board? [Silence.] Any discussion from licensed blind vendors? [Silence.] Any discussion from guests?

Moore: This is Jeanne-Marie.

Hauth: Jeanne-Marie.

Moore: I would suggest that you include your definition of “relevant” in your request, in your motion, you know, at the bottom of the page, so everyone knows what you’re talking about. Because… yeah.

Hauth: Thank you, Jeanne-Marie. Okay, so a motion has been made, second has been taken, ample discussion. I call the question, yay or nay. Derrick Stevenson?

StevensonD: Yay.

Hauth: Yay or nay, Art Stevenson? [Silence.] Art Stevenson, yay or nay?

StevensonA: Yay.

Hauth: Jerry Bird, yay or nay?

Bird: Yay.

Hauth: Steve Gordon, yay or nay?

Gordon: Yay.

Hauth: Steve Jackson, yay or nay?

Jackson: Yay.

Hauth: And I am a yay as well. We’ll submit that motion. Thank you. Moving along is retirement and what I will share with you is I did reach out to… oh, I forget what her name is here. Let me look. Hold on. Catherine Gannon. She was the lady that I believe Director Morris had been involved with… or not involved with but as far as reached out to. Art Stevenson has had communications with. I have as well. I’ve also reached out to several states. With that being said, I don’t have a lot of information. It’s something we’re going to look further into and address. Many states don’t have retirement, several do. But, case in point, we have Gordon Smith who’s retiring after, you know, close to 40 years in the program and, other than what he’s been able to accumulate over the years, as far as investments for his own retirement, there’s nothing really that this program is allowing for his retirement. So I think this is something that continue to work for and look through and see if we can come up with some kind of comprehensive kind of plan. So. Is there any comment on that? Otherwise, I will move on.

StevensonD: Mr. Chairman.

Hauth: Yes, Derrick.

StevensonD: That brought up to my mind… I would like to submit a motion that, seeing as how all the Board is basically new and whatever, and since we’re coming into January, the beginning of the year, that we follow the laws dictating that we need to decide what our set-aside is gonna be spent on, for… for the year.

Hauth: Yeah. And you know what? I agree with you, Derrick. And I’m going to move into the next item which is unassigned vending. I think you can address it at that time, unless you’d like to… for me to hear the motion that you just submitted. Either way. So.

StevensonD: That’s fine. I’ll make it in there. Go ahead.

Hauth: Okay. Okay, so we’ll move on to…

Smith: Randy, this is Gordon.

Hauth: Yeah, Gordon? Go ahead, buddy. Sorry.

Smith: I would… I would like to have you or Steve Gordon address the conversation that I had with you about inventory and the Courthouse.

Hauth: Yes, gladly. And I will turn this over to Steve Gordon in just one second. But I want to capsulize this. So Gordon, and you can correct any of this, but Gordon has been a manager for 150 years, I think…

[Laughter.]

Hauth: Close… close to 40. And… and for quite a number of years operated the Douglas County cafeteria. It came to our attention… I believe Gordon submitted his letter of retirement in September, early September and then again followed back up in November and reminded the agency of his retirement and questioned what was going on and so forth and so on. We’ve received conflicting information from Director Morris. And so, with that being said, we’re trying to get to the bottom of what’s going on with the facility, one. [Inaudible] assigned to that facility, two. What’s going on with the… the inventory, so forth and so on, the continued operation of the facility. Steve Gordon, if you would like to have the floor, please do.

Gordon: Okay, I… one of the… one of the things that I’m really concerned about is, is the… is the times and dates for Gordon of when one of the field reps are going to meet with him. He… I know I talked with Gordon concerning about Tom was supposed to be there and doing inventory out for him, you know, through the proper procedures, or through our rules and handbook. And I want to make sure that that happens. And one of my other concerns are… is the… to address the issue with… with the request for our ability for the right of transfer and promotions; that this… this wasn’t put out for bid. There was plenty of time for it to go out for bid and I’m under the assumption, under our rules and regulations, that… that it should’ve been honored in going out for… for bid through, you know, all of our active participation and through the ability… maybe there was a possibility that somebody would like to have transferred or made that promotion. With some of these requests actually going on too for some of the assigned vending. And… which I knew they did have done through public records with… with Ken Gerlitz from the past and also Lewanda from the past. Again, these were managers who were in… in conjunction with some of those meetings, apparently. I don’t know. But, anyway, going on to these locations that are not being put out for bid and we’re not having any kind of participation or any kind of assistance that I have been seeing. So, I guess, Eric, I’d like to ask you a couple questions about, you know, what allows the OCB to put out locations without a bid. And then we’ve had other people in my district that are concerned about assistance, you know, and they’ve been denied when they were also given assistance to… to others in the program and it looks like partiality or something going on. I’m not sure. But, you know, this concerns about OCB and, you know, keeping up with the vending, you know, to the managers, to be completely involved with active participation.

Morris: Randy, is it okay if I go ahead and answer?

Hauth: Please do.

Morris: So, to… to talk about the first part of that question, way back in the beginning, Tom will be down there this Friday to complete the inventory process and that way Gordo’s taken care of from that perspective. We have had plans to continue the operation until we could find somebody to go down and those plans did not pan out. So we’re going to have to figure out something else to keep the operation up and going in the meantime. And it will go out to bid soon. I apologize that it hasn’t been put out yet, but it hasn’t. And, um… that… that’s kind of…

Gordon: Eric, can I stop you for a moment?

Morris: Yeah. Go ahead, Steve.

Gordon: What I’m concerned about is… is… is the reflection of our program to all those faithful employees that helped support and help supported the, you know, Gordon Smith and them for years. And they’ve got customers that are going to be trying to go to the door, open up the doors and the doors are going to be closed because that hasn’t been fulfilled. And there was still plenty of time for this to be taken care of. I know the agency has known for months and it just… it makes Gordon and Karen look like they did not honor, you know, their people. It’s… it’s just another bad reflection of… of the Commission. Those doors will be shut and where’s all their valued customers gonna go?

Hauth: Yeah, thank you. I do have a question for you, Eric. So was Gordon, and I don’t know if Gordon’s on the phone, but was Gordon…

Smith: I am.

Hauth: Was Gordon communicated with about Tom going back, ‘cause obviously he has some questions about the inventory and when that’s gonna be conducted. Did you guys reach out and try and schedule anything with Gordon?

Morris: I believe Tom talked with Gordon either today or yesterday.

Smith: Yeah. Now, I will say that Tom has contacted us very recently. The one thing that… that we are truly unhappy about, Friday morning those doors are going to be closed. And we had a going away party that the County, some of the people in the County put on for us. And there is great concern with them about what is going on with the cafeteria. And I don’t think that the Commission for the Blind even gives that any consideration, how the employees of these buildings feel when somebody like Karen and I step out of the picture and they’re wondering what’s going on. I think it’s been quite unfair in that situation and…

Hauth: Yeah.

Smith: …they’ve had… I’ve had two of the Commissioners came in today to wish us good bye. One of them that has been retired for a while came in. And they both wanted to know what the Commission was going to do. And, basically, I feel like it’s going to be replaced, but when? And how long?

StevensonA: Mr. Chair.

Smith: [Inaudible] works very hard…

Hauth: Yeah, um…

Smith: … that keeps this building going. Excuse me for just a moment. And our numbers have been done. We’ve worked real hard to get them up. Now what happens when you close the door and those people are denied the lunchroom? Will they come back in a month?

Hauth: Yeah, Gordon, thank you for sharing. And thank you for sharing your heartfelt concerns. Because, you know what? Those buildings and our businesses and our customers become like family, you know. So, clearly…

StevensonA: Mr. Chair?

Hauth: Well, hold on just a second, Art. Please. It’s concerning that, as of September 1st, as I understand, Gordon submitted his letter of retirement. So, this is… and now what I hear is Tom just contacted Gordon yesterday or today, which is unacceptable. So, Eric, why hasn’t this location gone out for bid? It says it will go out for bid in our O.A.R.s, so for the agency not to put it out to bid is failing the administrative rules. So, why didn’t it go out for bid?

Morris: Well, Randy, the O.A.R.s say it goes out to bid, it doesn’t talk about when it goes out to bid. So, when we get ready to put it out…

Huath: So, you…

Morris: Yes?

Hauth: So you would suggest that a building closes down. What I’m hearing you say is, you would suggest, instead of putting a location out for bid, you’re justifying it can go out for bid any time, so you guys maybe in four months can put it out for bid and you’re suggesting that’s proper with the O.A.R.s?

[02:00:51]

Morris: I just said what I said about the O.A.R.s. They don’t have a timeline in them. But the part of the thing that has happened over the years with a lot of our locations is they’ve been propped up by extra added vending to them that doesn’t give you a clear idea how profitable or unprofitable these locations are. And, with Douglas County specifically, there’s some locations in there that there’s no way it could be operated through… without subcontracting for vending. And that’s the piece we have to look at and see how that facility will be put out to bid in the future. Because, frankly, you can’t… you can’t fill vending in a prison in eastern Oregon from Roseburg. So that’s the quandary…

Hauth: So… so can you tell me how you’ve made that decision?

Morris: I…

Hauth: Because I don’t believe the Committee has been contacted. Clearly, Gordon hasn’t been contacted. And it looks like just… I mean, bear with me, humor me here, Char Mckinzie, when she transferred into DMV, the agency decided to close down that vending facility or that vending opportunity and they brought it all in-house, the same thing that has happened with Joe Bassett when he passed away. You guys temporarily assigned vending to Ken Gerlitz for, like, two years and now it’s all coming in-house. The V.A., Ken Gerlitz unfortunately passed away, and you’re bringing it all in-house. So, is it more about the agency wanting to bring all this money in-house? And that’s why this location did not go out for bid as a… established facility to bring an opportunity to a person who was blind, either in the program or a new manager?

Morris: No, Randy, it doesn’t have anything to do with bringing money into the agency, which… it’s all about providing opportunities that people can actually run and be profitable in. And I think that’s the problem that’s happened in the past, is we’ve had agencies that were, er… locations that were just propped up that almost no money in the actual operation of them that are propped up by vending income. And that’s the thing, when it comes to…

Hauth: So…

Morris: … when it comes to unassigned vending and locations that aren’t assigned that was a big thing when I first got here and a big piece of the last complaint that you filed was that we didn’t follow proper procedures for assigning vending opportunities to people. And that’s one of the things I think the Committee needs to weigh in on, figure out a good way of doing that, that everybody will be happy with. Because, obviously, you weren’t happy with the White City awarding to Ken, the temporary assignment of the stuff to Ken, the Columbia Gorge assignment; all those were issues you brought up and I said a long time ago, and I’ve said it several times over the years, that’s an issue that the agency and the Committee need to work together on to come up with something that is a proper process that everybody can agree on, that vending, as it comes online – new vending opportunities, not vending facilities – gets assigned correctly.

Hauth: Well, I just want to make a comment then I’ll turn it over to Art. I know he wanted to make a comment. We have some other discussion here…

Smith: Randy, I would like…

Hauth: Go ahead, Gordon.

Smith: This is Gordon. I’d like to…

Hauth: Gordon. Please.

Smith: … make one statement real quick before Art gets on.

Hauth: Please do.

Smith: Shall I go ahead?

Hauth: Yes.

StevensonA: Go for it, Gordo.

Smith: Okay. Mr. Morris, I have signed a three-year contract with Sunrise Enterprises and I know that they have received a letter from you guys closing that contract the 17th of January. Is that legal?

Morris: Yeah, Gordo, I don’t know anything about a date for that. The contract with Sunrise is with you, not the agency.

Smith: I’m going to have Karen just give a comment to you.

Morris: Okay.

SmithK: Hi. [Silence.] Hello?

StevensonD: Yes.

Hauth: Hi, Karen. Go ahead.

SmithK: All right. Gordy and I have signed that contract with Sunrise and… and we have a copy of the thing that Art Marshall told us that, as of a certain date, the monies from that rest area are supposed to go to the OCB. Do we need to go out there and sign off on that? Or can you guys just step in and take it away because it is ODOT? Or what… what… what do we do?

Morris: Well, Karen, you guys are leaving the program, so the 17th would make sense now that you… now that I think about that. You would receive the commissions for December and then…

SmithK: Right.

Morris: … you guys are retiring.

SmithK: I know. But do we… what I’m asking is, do I need to go to Sunrise and tell them? Or do we have to sign off on something? Can you guys just come in there and say, “Okay, we’re taking over. They’re done.”?

Morris: You’d… you’d have to talk…

SmithK: We understand… we… I don’t want it. We just need to know whether we need to go sign something.

Morris: I would just ask Sunrise and see what they say. ‘Cause if you have a contract with them you just need to tell them, “Hey, we’re terminating the contract.”

SmithK: Okay. Well, Marshall had already sent us that and told them that… told Sunrise from that date to start sending the monies that would’ve come to us to them and I’m thinking, “Well, do we need to go out there and do something?”

Morris: Can you send me a copy of your contract with them? I don’t have it handy, on me.

SmithK: Okay. I can do that. Yeah.

Morris: And how about I give you…

SmithK: And…

Morris: How about I give you a call tomorrow?

SmithK: Okay. Well, thank you. Go ahead.

Hauth: Thank you, Karen. So I did want to say, before Art makes his comment, because I know he’s been patiently waiting, and then we have a couple other comments here. But, Eric, I know your comments previously. It’s probably improper to cite my complaint as, you know, your reasoning or rationale for, you know, your administrative responsibilities. So I’d ask you in the future to please refrain… refrain from that, you know. And turning it back on me as an individual isn’t proper. We’re talking about the administration of the program and we’re talking about a facility that says it will go out for bid. With that being said, before Art makes his comment, have you or has the agency directed the unassigned… or the vending associated with that facility to start being sent to the agency?

Morris: Yeah, once the… once they’re retired, yes.

Hauth: Art?

StevensonA: Am I off mute?

Hauth: Yes. [Silence.] Yes, Art. [Silence.] Art, we can’t hear you.

StevensonA: Okay. Am I off mute now?

Hauth: Yeah.

StevensonA: Dang finger, off and on, off and on, you know, trying to make sure you guys don’t get zapped with noise. All right. I want to make a motion that we immediately send a letter to the Board of Commissioners, the OCB Board of Commissioners, and have them help us, to make sure that we are fulfilling our obligations, our contractual obligations. But also not jeopardizing losing a vending facility because of this fiasco that’s going on. The State statutes are very specific, that if a qualified blind person isn’t available, that the agency is supposed to provide for the continued operation of the vending facility. And, obviously, that is not going to be happening. And… and, therefore, I believe, you know, what we’re hearing here, in my opinion, is… is… is not acceptable and something needs to be done immediately to ensure that that facility and the agency is doing their job under the State statutes. And… and so, I make a motion, that… that his gets resolved as quickly as possible and I think we need to let the Board of Commissioners know that the agency is jeopardizing a vending facility because they’re not doing their job.

Jackson: Okay, can I try to sum, Eric…

Hauth: Hold on. Hold on just a second, Steve.

Jackson: … Art…

Hauth: Steve? Steve, hold on. A motion has been made.

Jackson: Wait! That motion was… Can I try to clean up the motion?

Hauth: I will call for a second on the motion. You need to call for a second on the motion, I believe, and then we can have discussion.

Jackson: Okay.

Hauth: Is there a second to that motion?

Jackson: I… I second the motion.

Hauth: Okay. A second… A motion’s been made and…

Jackson: Can I… can I talk real fast?

Hauth: Yes.

Jackson: So I just wanted to try to clean it up and I think that we should make the Committee discuss this with Eric, the priority and list of ways to assign the unassigned vending and… and… and figure out a fair way to distribute the different facilities. Right? I mean, that’s… Is that it?

StevensonA: Um…

Hauth: Yeah, Steve, I… I hear what you’re saying. Obviously, we’re going to… I’m going to… we’re not done yet. But we have too much to handle during this meeting, so we’re going to respectfully request that we have a meeting next week to follow up on this. However, what your comment is… A lot of these things need to be worked through active participation…

Jackson: Mm hm.

Hauth: … in public meetings and we need to find a way to create more jobs, keep facilities open…

Jackson: Yes.

Hauth: … stimulate income for people. The agency, clearly, is stockpiling vending. And it’s, in my opinion, it’s improper if not, you know, it’s not lawful…

Jackson: Well, we need to [inaudible] Eric said.

Hauth: … that…

Jackson: We need to help him distribute it.

Hauth: Anyway, I do have a… I do have another comment here.

StevensonD: I’d like to make a quick one.

Hauth: Yes, Derrick. Go.

StevensonD: Yeah. I’m… I’m not too sure that we need to write a letter to the Commissioners, rather than we need to write a letter to Eric and OCB, demanding that they fulfill the law by providing for the continued operation of that… that program. It does not give them the option of waiting a month and then pushing it out, or whatever. If they have to send down one of their employees to run that facility until a manager’s found, that’s what they need to do. I don’t know what kind of plans he had that fell through but the bottom line is someone from the Commission should be down there talking to those employees, figuring out how… how they’re gonna provide the continuous operation. We’re obligated to do that, by law. And…

Smith: Derrick, that’s what they used to do.

StevensonD: Yeah. That’s what they have to do. They have no choice. Eric does not have a choice to not provide…

Jackson: Can I say something, Derrick? I…

StevensonD: …continued operations.

Jackson: I agree.

Hauth: Wait. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on, guys. Let Derrick finish.

StevensonD: So, what needs to be done is… is, when they go down there to do the inventory or whatever, they plan on packing a bag and getting a motel room and doing whatever it takes to keep that place open. Those employees deserve it.

Hauth: Yeah.

StevensonD: We are under contract with that County to… to provide those services and we need to do it. And I mean, Eric has been working on the…

Hauth: Well, you know, Derrick… Derrick, let me… let me… Derrick, let me suggest to you that if you wanted to make a friendly amendment you could request that that facility go out for bid and also that it be continued operations, so it doesn’t close. And the agency’s going to have to find a way to make that happen. I mean, so... for your consideration.

StevensonD: I’ll make a friendly… I’ll make a friendly amendment that the letter be sent to Eric Morris and OCB, stating that they have to, by law, provide for continued operation of that program. And they do not have the… they do not have the right to say, “Well, it fell through, so we’re not gonna do it.” They got to figure out how to get it done.

Hauth: Okay, a friendly amendment’s been made. Do you accept that friendly amendment?

StevensonA: Randy?

Hauth: Yes.

StevensonA: You know, obviously, I agree with you, Derrick, that they have to do it. I mean, Eric’s been in the program for quite a while; he knows what the State statute says. Obviously, it hasn’t hit home enough, because we just were told, you know, that the doors are closing. And they should’ve done that. Eric’s listening to us right now and the first thing he ought to be doing tomorrow morning is finding out how the heck they do it. But I also believe…

Hauth: Art, so a friendly amendment… a friendly amendment has been made so, do you…

StevensonA: Okay. I… I accept it. But I…

Hauth: Okay, thank you. And could the seconder accept that as well?

StevensonD: Yes.

Hauth: Okay. So a friendly amendment has been made, second. Thank you. And we have discussion? We have a comment?

Bird: Jerry. My only discussion is… ‘cause you pretty well all said it, the key word is continue to operate which, when I used to do a lot of research on these statutes and that, the idea wasn’t for it not to do what they’re gonna make it happen: close down, people find another place to go, you re-open it, now they have to leave that other person that now their’s… their best buddy and they’ve already found a new place. So that’s why that’s in there. You know, and then say, “Well, don’t give a time limit.” Well, okay, the time limit… it just has… it can’t… the doors cannot shut at… at… for our reasons, unless they ask them to be. So, you’re right. “Continuous” is exactly like we say, it’s like “relevant.” But “continuous.” So, thanks.

[02:16:48]

Hauth: Thank you, Jerry. So we’ve heard from the Board. Are there any licensed blind vendors that would like to speak? [Silence.] Okay, guests?

Haseman: Yeah, Linda Haseman would like to speak.

Hauth: Go ahead, Linda.

Haseman: Yeah. I’ve sat in observance for quite a few years of all this happening and I can tell you a very clear pattern, from my observance. Joe Basset’s route: absconded into the agency and then, behind closed doors, put out to Ken Gerlitz. And now that Ken Gerlitz, unfortunately, God rest his soul, has passed, absconded back into the agency, not only with Joe Bassett’s route, but Ken Gerlitz’s route. So we’re developing a pattern here. The next thing that happened is Harold Young decides to walk away from a couple facilities. Hmm, for some reason, all of a sudden, one of his facilities goes out as a third operation to another licensed blind vendor who has run some negatives recently in that location and… and I hear Mr. Morris talking about profits and loss and I’m wondering how that is all ferreted out because that didn’t seem to be a concern when that was handed off somewhere else to another licensed blind vendor. I watch as Sassy Onion, a subcontractor, continues with the Labor & Industries location. That doesn’t seem to be a problem. Then, of course, there’s Theo’s at the United States Post Office that we can’t get an answer to. No one seems to be able to give an answer with what’s going on with Edith Green. Supposedly, there was one vendor that bid for it. However, that seems to have gone into oblivion. So, again, as we’re developing a pattern here, now we fast forward to Gordon Smith’s situation. And you all are very right: according to the rules, when there’s a vacancy, it “will”… “Will” is a command word, just like “shall.” Actually, I think it’s stronger than “shall.” I think [inaudible] is actually stronger than “shall.” If Mr. Morris has had a vacancy notice since September 1st, beginning December 30th, there is no reason that that didn’t go out for bid. And, if for some reason, it didn’t go out for bid, which I can’t see why when there’s a will notice because, of course, everybody gets a chance to open up for a bid, for a vacancy notice. If no one bids on it, then it’s allowed for the continued operation of that by

the B.E.P. And what I’m hearing through all this conversation today is that Mr. Morris is okay with on December 30th at 2:00 or 3:00 or whatever time it is, locking the doors and saying, “C’est la vie.” And what I heard from Mr. Bird is exactly right, and from Mr. Stevenson is exactly right. Once you lose those customers to another location, they’re gone. And there’s no excuse that the “will” command of the rules that the agency actually have implemented, the O.A.R., which are rules, not statutes, were not implemented. And I’m very, extremely upset by this pattern where blind people are being left in the cold with no employment. I hear that there’s training. I see that people, per the ranking list, there’s people that are below the average, don’t even have an opportunity now to bid on this? You betcha I’m frustrated as a stakeholder watching this. This is about… this program is about blind employment and everybody, including the Commission, better understand that. And what I’m watching is the in… the agency is driving in all this [inaudible] and I’m going to put it on the record, right now, that I believe that, because they underestimated how much they needed, dollars-wise and cents-wise, for the vending, when they were trying to end subcontracting, that now they’re bringing it all in to offset what they would have to spend to change out the subcontractors and put it in your guys’ control and that’s not acceptable. And there’s a clear pattern occurring and patterns are important. And I’m sorry I’m sounding frustrated, but that’s exactly what I am. Is this program’s about blind employment and when I hear Gordon and Karen, who I deeply have care and concern for, having to walk away from their facility and lock the door, that their customers don’t have any way to get in, they’re gonna go elsewhere and blind employment is now lost.

Hauth: Thank you, Linda. Any other comments before we call the question? Okay, a motion has been made, a second, a friendly amendment has been accepted and seconded. I will call the question, yay or nay. Derrick Stevenson.

StevensonD: Yay.

Hauth: Yay or nay, Art Stevenson. [Silence.] Art Stevenson, yay or nay?

StevensonA: Yay!

Hauth: Jerry Bird, yay or nay.

Bird: Yay.

Hauth: Gordon Smith, yay or nay? I’m sorry, Steve Gordon, yay or nay?

[Laughter.]

Gordon: Thank you for changing names here. Yay.

Smith: I knew what you meant.

Hauth: Steve Jackson, yay or nay.

Gordon: Yeah, we did, Gordon.

Hauth: Steve Jackson, yay or nay.

Jackson: Yes. Yes.

Hauth: Randy, yay. Okay, you guys, you know, I know Derrick wanted to make a motion and I asked him to do it under unassigned vending. We have quite a few more important things, as well. Do we need to hold a special meeting next week? What are your… I’d like to hear from the Board what your thoughts are on how we properly deal with this. Of course, we had a lot on this agenda but, you know what? Over the last two and a half years or so there’s been a lot that has gone… swept under the rug and so it’s our duty, our responsibility, our job to hopefully start forging anew. And what are your thoughts from my Board members, as far as…

StevensonD: This is Derrick.

Hauth: Yes, Derrick.

[02:23:19]

StevensonD: Yeah, I… I… I know it’s late and we need… we need to move on. I think we should continue these agendas next week. Actually, I make a motion that we… we set up a time for a meeting next week to finish the rest of the agenda items on this.

Hauth: All right. Well, motion has been made by Derrick Stevenson to hold a meeting next week and, you know, finish up these agenda items and, you know…. Do I have a second on that?

Jackson: Steve Jackson seconds.

Hauth: Steve Jackson has seconded. Is there any… any discussion at this time?

Morris: Hey, Randy.

Hauth: Yes?

Morris: I’m out of town next week. I’d be happy to do it the following week.

Hauth: Can you not… can you not teleconference in, Eric, and just… I mean, just so I understand this, because I’ve seen some back and forth that, you know, as far as the meeting, can representation other than you be participating in the meeting? Does it have to be you?

Morris: Yes.

Hauth: And/or can you call in? Many times I’ve been on vacation or I’ve been travelling and I’ve had to actually spend the time calling in. So is that… is there something that… that you can do as well?

Morris: Like I said, I’d be happy to do it the following week.

Hauth: Derrick, you made the motion, so… and we had a second. I think we had a second on that, right? So what are your… what would you like to do, Derrick?

StevensonD: Well, I’ll… I’ll amend that to… to say early next week. Say, like, Monday or Tuesday. I mean, the week after, Monday or Tuesday. If that works for everyone.

Hauth: Okay. Okay. So do you want to… do you amend that motion?

StevensonD: Yes.

Hauth: Okay, so that amend… motion has been amended. Do we have a second?

StevensonA: Mr. Chair?

Hauth: Does the seconder approve of that? Did we have a second on that?

StevensonA: Mr. Chair?

Hauth: Yes, Art.

StevensonA: Let’s… before… he said Monday or Tuesday is… what… what day are you available, Eric? Is it Monday or Tuesday?

Morris: Tuesday would be great, Art. That’s the 10th of January.

Hauth: Okay.

StevensonA: Well, I just wanted to… you know, I didn’t want something to come back and say, “No, I can’t do it.” So… so, Tuesday is good then?

Morris: Yep. Tuesday the 10th is solid.

Hauth: Okay, do we have a second on that?

StevensonA: I second that it… Tuesday the 10th. Okay, so discussion. Any more discussion on that? Okay, I’m going to call for the vote. And before we adjourn the meeting, just a heads-up: I do have a couple of things I just want to share briefly. So, moving forward, we have a motion and a second. Yay or nay, Derrick Stevenson?

StevensonD: Yay.

Hauth: Yay or nay, Art Stevenson.

StevensonA: Yay.

Hauth: Yay or nay, Jerry Bird.

Bird: Yay.

Hauth: Yay or nay, Steve Gordon.

Gordon: Yes.

Hauth: Yay or nay, Steve Jackson

Jackson: Yay.

Hauth: And I am a yay, also. Thank you, gentlemen. And so, a couple of questions. I know it was mentioned earlier about the payment for these teleconference lines. There are free teleconference lines that I think a lot of the consumer groups used. I use them as well through Blind Employment Services of Tomorrow. I don’t know if money for these are being paid out of our program, [inaudible] set-aside, or if it is an issue. I know Commissioner Jeanne-Marie mentioned it so, if it is an issue, let’s… let’s look into it. Eric, what are the costs of these? Do you have that… what are the costs of holding these meetings, for the teleconference?

Morris: I… I don’t know, Randy. I could try to find out.

Hauth: Would it be something we’d want to look into? Using a different service provider, you know, going forward, that’s one thing that we consider. And also, last but not least, the inventory. I know that you guys reached out to Gordon today or yesterday. He also had a concern about who’s going to pay for the inventory. How’s that going to be handled? In what timely manner will that be paid back? Can you give Gordon, if Gordon’s still on the line can you give him any…

Smith: Yes.

Hauth: … reassurances to that?

Morris: Yes. I… I’m not quite sure how to answer the question. Once the inventory’s taken and stuff, we come back and process it through here. And my understanding is they cut a check.

Hauth: Okay. Gordon, is that sufficient? Do you have any questions?

Smith: Yes, that’s very… that’s very acceptable.

Hauth: Okay…

StevensonD: I’d like to ask what’s gonna happen to that inventory, after it’s taken. Are they gonna… if they’re not gonna keep the place open are they gonna move it or… or is it just gonna sit there and rot?

Smith: I don’t have a clue what they’re going to do.

Jackson: Chair, can I ask Eric a question? Could I ask him… Yeah, I wanted to ask him a question. Maybe, Eric, maybe you could European Restaurants [the subcontractor in the B.P.A. Building] to see if they could look at the kitchen and see if they’d like to… to help work with a blind manager there. But I’d just really like you to know that it’s… it’s the face of blind managers that are being blemished if that place is closed. And… and it is important that that place is open.

Morris: Yeah, Steve, I understand that.

Hauth: Okay, thank you. Thank you, Steve. Eric, what is going to happen with the inventory, the question that Derrick asked?

Morris: We’re hoping that it will only be closed for a short amount of time and so, you know, canned goods and dried goods and stuff like that don’t… you know, they don’t have an infinite date time period but, you know, most of it, hopefully, will be held over until the next person comes in to start operating it.

StevensonD: So is this… is this you saying that you’re not going to provide for the continued operation?

Morris: Yeah, Derrick, we’re going to keep the place running. That’s the… we just have to figure out a way to do that efficiently.

Hauth: So, will it be open the 2nd of January.

Morris: I would think it would not be open the 2nd … the first week of January.

StevensonD: Has anybody contacted the employees and asked them if they would… would mind keeping the place running?

Morris: Yes.

StevensonD: [Inaudible.]

Morris: I’m sorry?

Gordon: They denied.

StevensonD: Contracting with them, to keep the place running?

Morris: Yeah. They didn’t want to do that.

StevensonD: Okay.

Smith: No, that’s… in a sense that’s… that’s true. But on the other hand, they offered my cook of twelve years a contract to keep it open and she did not have the money or want the responsibility. ‘Cause it can take roughly a thousand dollars for the permits and the insurances and that. Because they’re… they will all be expired Friday.

Hauth: Gordon, thank you very much. Eric, so, why in the world was that contact made and a request for somebody apparently to operate the facility, but it didn’t go out?

Morris: Well, the reason we asked the employees to keep it going is like I talked about before, is we’re trying to figure out the best way to put it back out for bid, not including all the vending like in Eastern Oregon.

Hauth: And have you worked with the Committee on that or is this a decision you’re just making?

Morris: It’s been a decision that I’ve been making. If the Committee would like to weigh in on it, you’re more than welcome to weigh in on it.

Hauth: Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, certainly we’re going to weigh in on it. You know, I’ll make a motion right now that that vending stay connected to that facility, as has been practiced. Do I have a second on that?

Gordon: I second it. Steve Gordon.

StevensonD: I… I didn’t quite understand it.

[02:32:30]

Hauth: The motion… I would make the motion that the facility, as has been operated, remain intact and that the cafeteria continue to operate.

StevensonD: All right, I’ll second that.

Hauth: Do I have a second?

StevensonD: I second it.

Hauth: Okay, and do we have any discussion?

StevensonD: Yeah, this is Derrick.

Hauth: Yeah, Derrick.

StevensonD: One… one that I’m… that I have to question is why Eric or they feel that they need to make that employee pay for the licenses and insurance. That’s part of continued operation, that your responsibility for the… for the continued operation, is to obtain those licenses and permits so that that place can stay open. You cannot push that off on an employee. ‘Cause that… she’s not… she’s not a blind licensed manager. The Commission for the Blind should be taking care of those costs.

StevensonA: Mr. Chair?

Hauth: Yes, Art.

StevensonA: I concur with Mr. Stevenson wholeheartedly. And, of course, you know, if we had been informed on what was going on, that offer might’ve been made, and in fact it should be made, and… and… and stuff. So, I’ll call the question on this ‘cause I… I believe, you know, we need to move forward.

Hauth: Okay, a motion’s been made, a second. Any… the question has been called. I call the question. I’m sorry for that; a little confusing. But I call the question. Yay or nay, Derrick Stevenson. [Silence.] Derrick, yay or nay?

StevensonD: Yay.

Hauth: Art Stevenson, yay or nay.

StevensonA: Yay.

Hauth: Jerry Bird, yay or nay.

Bird: Yay.

Hauth: Steve Gordon, yay or nay.

Gordon: Yay.

Hauth: Steve Jackson, yay or nay.

Jackson: Yay.

Hauth: And I am a yay. Thank you.

Bird: Randy. Jerry.

Hauth: Yes, Jerry.

Bird: Before we break off, I got a question for… kind of just a direct question for Eric, ‘cause as I’m going over these things in my mind, he keeps making the comment, like, because of the vending machines, like, it’s his… his opin… no, the way he is gonna do it is, is, no, if you don’t fill the vending machine yourself, you will not receive any vending. It will not be added to anybody’s income no more, as a supplement. I keep getting that ‘cause he’s saying, like, “Well, yeah, we’re taking that vending because we’re bringing that out. But, you know, we… we can’t let them do it, even though Pepsi will do it, because it’s so far for them to go fill them.” So, I think he’s using the whole basis of this whole thing on no one getting any unassigned vending. They’re going to unassign it all unless you fill it yourself. Is that correct, Eric?

Morris: Well, Jerry, I don’t think that’s a… a correct – what’s the right way to say it? – a correct… a correct re-wording of what I’ve been saying tonight. But I think, earlier in the meeting, several hours ago, we talked at length… or you guys talked at length, about the subcontracting issue and the D.O.J. opinion. And so, you know, my task is to implement what… what’s been given to me, to roll out the self-operation. And it doesn’t make any sense to continue to think, “Well, we… you know, that might… I mean, unless the legislature changes it, which you guys have been kind of talking about this evening, but my task is to make sure that when we’re setting up facilities, that people can self-operate them. So, that’s how it is from my perspective.

Hauth: All right. Any other…

Smith: This is… this is Gordon. Could I ask Eric a quick question?

Hauth: Yes.

Smith: On… on the new facility off of Harvard Avenue, did they put in a micro market?

Morris: Gordo, I… I’m not sure right off the top of my head. I have to ask Art… Art Marshall about that.

Hauth: Why wouldn’t you… why wouldn’t you know that, as the Director?

Morris: Well, jeez, Randy, I…

Smith: I have a…

Morris: I just don’t remember.

Smith: Randy, I have heard they have, but I don’t know that for a fact.

Morris: And Randy, just… just for the record, I have like 15 points to cover in my Director’s Report. I’ll push that to you guys tonight… er, not tonight, but tomorrow, with a written version of that so we can take it up at the next meeting.

Hauth: Yes, and… thank you. Any other questions? [Silence.] Any other comments? I do want to close out by letting everybody know that, again, there’s a lot of issues here, a lot that needs to be addressed to make this program be what it should be and put blind people to work and make quality livelihood through everybody. I can clearly see that, Eric, we’re going to have to find a way to be able to work together through active participation. It appears that, no disrespect meant, but you’re making a lot of these decisions and have actually been allowed to make these decisions without any input or any questions. And so, active participation is about us working together in a public arena and working in good faith to be involved, as law requires. So, I hope that we can find a way to do that, moving forward. The second thing is, there’s… there’s gonna be a lot of letters that are written, okay? So there’s been motions to send letters. I do want to share also that I have been working with a consultation to see if we can develop possibly a resolution or a position statement that the Committee can consider in a public meeting that, you know, shares our position and our stance on a lot of issues. That… you know, at the end of the day, we need to net blind jobs. And what I see happening is quite the opposite; that this agency that claims to be an exemplary agency, supposed to be [garbled due to interference]… don’t see that happening and hopefully we can find a way to make that happen. So, with that being said, I’ll go ahead and adjourn this meeting and…

Smith: Randy, this is Gordon.

Hauth: Yeah.

Smith: Thank you, guys. Each and every one of you for...

Jackson: Gordo, God bless you. Yeah.

Hauth: [Inaudible.]

Smith: … being a friend and we’ll keep in touch.

Hauth: We love you guys, man. You guys are great. Thank you.

Smith: Catch you later. Bye.

Unknown voice: [Inaudible.]

Smith: Bye, guys.

Jackson: Good bye, Gordo. Good bye, Randy. Good job.

Hauth: Bye, guys.

[02:40:30]

Transcription: Mark Riesmeyer