1:01:57

ANGELA AYRES (nee ZIVKOVICH)

Angela Calitz

October 2012

E0660

1:00:60

Judith Hockenhull

4/06/2013

City of Joondalup

This is an interview with Angela Ayres who was Angela Zivkovich, now living in Greenwood

in the City of Joondalup. My name is Angela Calitz. Angela Ayres is a descendent of a

pioneering family to the local area and the purpose of this interview is to find out more about

her family’s past and of Angela’s own memories of growing up here.

AC: So good morning Angela, thank you for making the time to join us for the interview

today.

AA: Good morning

AC: Can we start by asking you to state your full name and your place and date of birth?

AA: Angelina Rajka Zivkovich Ayres, Subiaco in Western Australia on the 13 April 1933.

AC: Thank you, and can you give us your father’s name?

AA: Nikola Zivkovich.

AC: And your mother’s name?

AA: Maria Zivkovich.

AC: And can you tell me anything about your siblings?

AA: I had an older sister Mary and then another sister called Jean and then Lucy and

myself.

AC: So you are the youngest of four daughters?

AA: I am the youngest of 4, yes.

AC: And what is the nationality of your family, where did they come from originally?

AA: Yugoslavia as it was called then, it was Zaton but now of course it’s called Croatia.

AC: Now when I have read a bit of your family history that we have got published in the book

by Bill Marwick, we have actually got that open in front of us, it says that your father left that

part of the world in 1924 to come over to Western Australia and start a new life for his family.

Do you know what made him decide to do that?

AA: I think it would have been the harsh living conditions over there. The economy wasn’t

very good and it was a big struggle to put food on the table, that’s as much as I can

remember him talking about.

AC: And do you ever remember your parents saying why they chose Western Australia,

what was the promise over here?

AA: I think there were other Yugoslavs at the time that were making their way over here and

had heard about this wonderful new land and I think whole groups of them came over.

AC: So obviously good reports had gone back to Yugoslavia to sound so promising.

AA: Yes, yes.

AC: OK. Now the early days when your father came over here and had to work here how did

your mum and your sisters survive back in Yugoslavia, were they looked after by family, did

your dad send money back?

AA: Yes he did, he did, and I think all their families over there they helped each other to put

food on the table is as much as I can remember being told.

AC: And do you know what work your dad started doing over here when he came?

AA: Woodcutting. Most of them were woodcutters and went down south near Busselton, I

think somewhere near Alexandra Bridge. That’s where that photo was taken on the

horseback.

AC: Yes, we have got that here in the book here as well. So that was hard physical work, he

must have been a very strong man.

AA: Yes, going by what I’ve read in other history I think men must have lived in a hostel in

Perth somewhere in East Perth but I can’t remember the name of it.

AC: Yes.

AA: And then they obviously went down there by truck and the camped; I know they lived in

tents down there woodcutting as much as I remember dad telling us.

AC: So it was quite a rough way of life.

AA: It would have been, yes, yes.

AC: The heat and the flies.

AA: Oh’

AC: He was determined to make it work obviously.

AA: I am sure he would have been and they would have kept together, so as to give each

other er (pause)

AC: Support?

AA: Support, that’s right.

AC: And work as a team.

AC: Now the story we have read in Bill Marwick’s book says that your mum and your older

sisters followed him in 1929. So that was five years later they managed to come out to Perth

as well.

AA: Yes, that’s right, yes.

AC: Do you recall where they first lived, I know you hadn’t yet been born but where did they

first set up home?

AA: I remember Jean and Mary saying they were living in a tent somewhere near Collie no

Darkin [spelled out the word Darkin] and they used to go to a school and they had to put

marks on the trees so they knew how to get to the school from where mum and dad lived in

a tent.

AC: So was that literally like through a bush track?

AA: Yes, yes, it was a bush track.

AC: And they had to make the trees to find their way?

AA: Yes, yes, actually I think it was a placed called Bulading [spelled the name Bulading]

AC: And do you know how long they lived there?

AA: Pause - Gosh!

AC: It must have been quite hard on your mum living in a tent with young children.

AA: Yes, I really can’t remember that part.

AC: I think it is hard for us to imagine you know as women and mothers how difficult those

days must have been.

AA: I remember mum saying to me she said I thought I would be going to a better life and

here I am living in a tent. It was raining and pretty awful.

AC: Yes. So it was very difficult for our pioneers

AA: Yes, well it was difficult for husbands and wives.

AC: Now do you remember when the family moved to Perth? Would it have been a couple of

years?

AA: No I can’t, I can just remember our first house in Wanneroo. I could draw it, it was like a

little dolls house, it was made of tin it had a door in the middle and a window on either side of

the door and I remember it was a tiny house just vaguely and I’ve got memories of the new

one being built and Lucy and I getting excited.

AC: For your new house?

AA: Yes, yes (laughter)

AC: Now do you remember the location or address of that house?

AA: It was called the 10 Mile Peg, Wanneroo

AC: And where is that sort of in proximity of today?

AA: Well there’s a street called Parin Road and it was somewhere between Parin Road and

the next street up I think is, well it used to be Kent Road. I don’t know if Kent Road is still

there, I would have to look at it on the road map

AC: So would that sort of be further South sort of Greenwood area?

AA: Yes, you know where Warwick Road is now? It would be further north from there. I think

Parin Road would be the closest one I can think of and we were on that side.

AC: Yes, close to Wanneroo Road?

AA: Yes, we were actually facing Wanneroo Road, yes.

AC: Now did your father buy that land?

AA: Yes.

AC: Do you remember how he purchased it?

AA: Well, I suppose he paid it off, I don’t know how they did those sort of things I never

really...

AC: And was that wild bushland?

AA: It was all bush but the wonderful thing in the springtime the wildflowers were beautiful;

spider orchids, buttercups, pink myrtle. It was just full of blossoms, absolutely beautiful and I

remember looking out of the kitchen window in the springtime and it was next door’s still

natural bush and the lovely colours of the flowers, you would have to see it to believe it.

AC: Yes, obviously still very natural and wild, did your father have to clear that land himself?

AA: Well he cleared the ten acres. He didn’t clear all of the ten acres, he did the front 5

which the house was on one corner and the other side he had to clear to plant his vines.

AC: OK, I was going to ask you what type of production he went into, so he planted

grapevines.

AA: Yes, it was grape vines, yes grape vines.

AC: And what did he do then, did he sell the grapes or did he make wine?

AA: He made some wines yes and he had certain customers he would sell wines to. He

made a very good quality Muscat wine, I cannot remember the other ones and he had his

own special red wine for himself [Angela laughs].

AC: And did he find that was quite good production even though the life was hard, did he

make a good enough living off that?

AA: Oh I think it was just a hand to mouth existence.

AC: Right, so times were difficult.

AA: That’s right it was, and he also grew vegetables as well which he took to market.

AC: Produce to sell?

AA: Yes, that’s right, yes

AC: Do you remember how your mum used to feed you, did she use the produce from your

land.

AA: In later years I can remember having fresh vegetables picked from the garden and into

the pot, and then, wonderful.

AC: So your mum still managed to produce healthy meals for you.

AA: Oh yes, it was very hard in the early days I can remember it vaguely, a lot of soups with

vegetables in them and barley, barley and vegetable soups.

AC: Did you have meat at all?

AA: We did have meat; um of course dad was doing the shopping.

AC: Where did he go, into Perth?

AA: He’d go into Perth in the horse and cart. I think he left it at one of the stables there when

doing the shopping.

AC: Probably pick up the list of things your mum...

AA: Yes, they would write down a list together.

AC: And how often would he go into Perth

AA: On a Saturday.

AC: Every week?

AA: Every week, yes

AC: So that whatever he got had to last you for the week?

AA: Yes, that’s right, yes. There was no refrigerator; we had a Coolgardie Safe in the big

shed up on the corner.

AC: Can you describe what that is, a Coolgardie Safe?

AA: Oh it’s like I don’t know how to describe it, it was a high thing like an ice chest, you

know what an ice chest is?

AC: Yes, about a metre high?

AA: It was sort of shaped like that and then it had hessian, hessian like bags

AC: Sacking?

AA: Yes, yes that’s right and it was on a wire frame inside and I remember up the top there

was a square thing made out of galvanized iron full of water and then you had pieces of

cloth, I think mum used to cut old flannel shirts, and you dumped that in and that would

dribble through and keep the hessian damp and it kept everything inside cool.

AC: So it was the effect of the water dribbling down that cooled them.

AA: Yes, yes that’s right

AC: Was that quite effective even in the heat?

AA: Oh yes it was, we had that Actually in the corner of the big wine shed which was the

coolest part because it was a cement floor and high roof.

AC: And your father had built that I suppose?

AA: Yes, yes that’s right dad had that built later on, the wine shed, and the coolest part of

the shed, it was effective and you could keep your butter in there, you would keep it in a

special butter container like a porcelain thing with a lid and I remember mum making jellies

and putting the jelly in there to set but you couldn’t make ice cream of course.

AC: It wouldn’t keep it cold enough for that (laughter)

AA: It was effective, yes.

AC: OK, I’m just paging through the book and we can look at some pictures together, there

was a photograph of your house in this book.

AA: Oh yes, that’s our proper house as I call it.

AC: So this isn’t the doll’s house, this is one you were getting excited about?

AA: No that’s our real house.

AC: If we look at that picture together it’s called the Old Zivkovich Homestead from the

1950s, can you sort of explain what was in these rooms, we can see the windows and the

doors.

AA: Well, I’ll tell you what, that little room there was a door opening onto a veranda and then

that’s a front door then there was a passageway, everyone had passageway because it was

like a breeze-way.

AC: Did that go right through the house?

AA: Yes, right through the house and when it went to the kitchen that was one big area so

that cool air flowed down the passageway passed the bedrooms and it did help that was a

high pitched roof and it did help. So there was a little room in the front and then mum and

dad’s bedroom on the left as well and they had a special little awning over their window like

a little metal you know like an awning.

AC: Angle over the window?

AA: Yes, yes so that the sun didn’t come into the bedroom and it kept it comfortable. And

then there was a passageway ended up into the kitchen, that was quite a large room; and

then on the right of the kitchen there was another door there and another bedroom there and

that’s the bedroom window there.

AC: Yes, you can see that on the right-hand side of the house.

AA: Yes, yes, the sea-breeze would come in beautifully Lucy and I shared that bedroom it

was quite a large one and you could always tell when the sea breeze was in all the curtains

were blowing.

AC: Beautiful, no luxury of air-conditioning?

AA: Oh no, no, no way, you just managed and that’s the little bathroom window.

AC: The tiny little white window on the far right was the bathroom.

AA: Yes, yes with the four little panes that was quite cute.

AC: Now you say your father had that house built by someone that was doing that.

AA: Yes, Jack Kelly, Mr Jack Kelly I think he built quite a few homes in Wanneroo because

they had a similar pattern and I think he was a very homely sort of fellow and mother used to

make him a cup of tea and we would all sit at the old big kitchen table and have a chat to

him and in that era another person in the family was, how can I describe it, it was nice to

have some company, we appreciated each other’s company because we were so isolated.

AC: And probably most of your life was spent just working doing the hard work on the land.

AA: That’s right just getting things going.

AC: Yes, now I see also in the same picture you’ve got a big water tank behind the house,

how did you get your water?

AA: I think by then Dad had a diesel motor and a well, that was pumped into it but prior to

that we had a windmill.

AC: OK, you can’t see the windmill in the picture.

AA: No you can’t.

AC: So would you have to go out and pump the water into the buckets or did it run into the

house?

AA: Oh hang on Agmies? Pump. We had a hand pump and prior to that we had a windlass,

you had to wind the bucket down and wind it up again.

AC: And you would have to do a couple of those a day to get the water you needed I

suppose.

AA: Yes, yes.

AC: Do you remember how your mum did the washing? Was it all by hand?

AA: Yes, yes by hand in a galvanised big tub, I remember it had a handle at each end, that

was a big hard task and I remember her, I think they boiled the copper up and then Dad had

to .. Mum to carry the water from the galvanised tub.

AC: Probably couple of times?

AA: Yes, it a big arduous task because I remember Mum got chilblains.

AC: Oh, on her hands?

AA: Chilblains later on.

AC: Did you girls have to help her as you got older with the chores?

AA: Oh yes, yes we did, we all, and of course later on we got the laundry added on and the

copper was Actually built into the brickwork and we got the twin tubs, the em..

AC: Concrete, I think?

AA: Yes, concrete tubs that’s right concrete wash tubs, but poor old mum had to hand ring

all the washing so we used to sort of get the sheets and... (Angela laughs)

AC: Two of you on each end?

AA: Yes, yes especially the double bed sheets and they were very heavy duty cotton and

then mum was very proud of her sheets she would put them in the copper and boil them up

and you would have bits of soap left over and you would put them in a little jar and, everyone

did that though.

AC: Yes, I suppose you were very careful with what you had; there was no waste.

AA: Yes, exactly, you couldn’t be going to the shop every minute to get your stuff and that

was part of life you just accepted it and carried on.

AC: Now do you girls remember any of the other chores you had to do to help around the

household and the property?

AA: Well Dad did most of all the outside thing, oh’ a bit of gardening Mum always enjoyed a

little bit of gardening, like flower gardens and as we got older she showed us how to do

things and in that era you didn’t go to a nursery you had friends and when you visit the

friends you would always swap little plants.

AC: Some cuttings?

AA: Cuttings that’s right that was a big deal.

AC: And did you have to help in the vegetable gardens at all?

AA: No, no Dad did all that but later on down the track when he had the sprinklers put in and

that was a big bonus for him too.

AC: Help make his life a lot easier.

AA: Oh definitely, yes

AC: Now do you remember any dangers you had, like pests destroying your crops or fire

anything like that?

AA: No if, with the grapes, if at a certain time of the year if the weather became very humid

the grapes might get some sort of a mildewy disease or something and I remember Dad had

to use..., what was it, he used to get this little hessian bag thing and put some dusting

powder in it, or something I forget what it was, sulphur some yellow looking stuff and that

would, to prevent the mildew getting any worse but really you were relying mainly on nature.

AC: To do the right thing; to get a good crop?

AA: Yes, yes.

AC: Did you ever have birds attacking your crop?

AA: It was Lucy’s and my job to keep the birds away so we would get these kerosene tins

turned into a bucket with a handle we would get a big stick and after school after we had

afternoon tea it was our job to walk around the vineyard and if the parrots were the worst

thing oh’ and they would make this noise irritating like “I want to eat your grapes” they would

repeat this noise.

AC: They were tormenting you?

AA: Yes, yes and Lucy would go up the other end and I would go up this end and we’d bang

with the stick and go round and round and round to frighten them off because they were a

real problem especially the parrots.

AC: They could destroy the whole crop.

AA: Oh yes they only wanted to peck one little bit and the bunch is ruined. They were a big

pest and we used to hate them and they used to have a cheeky way of singing it would

make you really angry so you had to want to pick, I really can’t, yes I can just picture it now

we used to get so angry, “go away you bird leave the food”.

AC: So you obviously took your job very seriously.

AA: Oh yes we did, yes, yes.

AC: Now what about other pests, did you ever come across things like snakes or anything

more dangerous living on the land?

AA: I know we had to be careful when we went up to the poultry shed where Dad stored the

grain, the wheat and the other things and because we had the horse, I forgot about the

horse he was in the stable it was all part of a big shed the horse was over there and it was

all one big shed and then all the stock feed was over here and I remember Lucy and I went

up to get the wheat to feed the chooks in the afternoon and we saw this big snake slithering

out, and well we screamed and ran back to the house “Mum, Mum there’s a snake”, you

know we were Actually terrified, yes.

AC: You don’t remember ever having any in the house?

AA: Well Actually yes one, one, I did see one once, there was a bit of a gap at the end of the

passageway, there was a little bit of a gap where the passage finished and going into the

kitchen and I was in there on my own one day and a snake came up, it didn’t come out of the

gap but I could see it’s body going, arching like that.

AC: Yes, it must have been a big one.

AA: I screamed, yes, and Mum was right down the back somewhere “Mum, Mum there’s a

snake” and of course she was absolutely terrified herself and I remember we stopped

someone, I don’t know who it was, on the road because you know most of the people who

owned vehicles because there were so few of them in that area, and anyway he came up

and looked under the house because he could see Mum was quite frightened, yes, and we

never saw the snake. It didn’t actually come into the room.

AC: It didn’t do any harm

AA: No, no, I was just a little kid then, yes.

AC: Just the reality...

AA: I can still remember it, I must have been about 6 or 7 and I can still remember the terror,

Oh.

AC: So it had its dangers living on the land, living wild.

AA: Yes, yes that was the biggest fright, apart from that all the other on was, in summertime

you might get a big spider, you know.

AC: Tarantulas?

AA: Yes, they could live in the curtains usually in the summertime and we always used to

always check the top of the curtains to see if there were any hairy legs up there, Mum.

(Laughter)

AC: Now before we started running the interview you told me when the night times were

very hot in your house what did you and Lucy used to do?

AA: Well we used to just get the er the softer mattresses you know not the spring thing I

think they were ... looking ones (not clear) and they had boxed edges and I would pull off the

bed and put them in the passageway open the door latch the flywire of course and wait for

the breeze to come.

AC: And you would lie and sleep in the passage?

AA: Yes, we didn’t do it every night, just a few nights of the summertime.

AC: And obviously things were quite safe then, you didn’t have to worry about your own

safety leaving the door unlocked?

AA: No you didn’t have to worry too much about that I mean we always latched the doors

and locked the doors but never had to, you could keep your windows open, we had

flyscreens on the windows and all that but no it was quite comfortable and I mean in that era

too I’m talking about earlier years the vehicles, you, because they were so noisy in that era

you’d recognise the vehicle.

AC: You could hear them coming!

AA: Yes, yes oh’ that’s such and such, you know I know this sounds strange but you did

become very aware.

AC: How close were your closest neighbours?

AA: Oh, em not too far just trying to think, there was Parins just that side, now we are going

in kilometres (pause) em they weren’t far.

AC: Would it be easy to walk there, just a couple of minutes?

AA: Oh yes you could walk, like both sides five or ten minutes, just a walk.

AC: So if there was any great drama you knew you could reach them easily.

AA: Oh no no great drama it was only about ten minute walk roughly both sides, yes.

AC: Oh OK. Now we were also talking earlier about the war years, what do you remember

about the war time? Did it affect you with things like rationing?

AA: Well yes, we had clothes rationing, petrol rationing and um, clothes rationing, yes, I can

remember being measured if you were a certain height, if you were five foot or something

you would get an extra coupon or something for clothing and I remember two years running I

didn’t quite make the 5 foot I was so cross with myself because I wanted to get the extra

coupons for mum. [laughter]

AC: To get some more clothes!

AA: Yes, (laughter)

AC: And was there food rationing at all, or did you produce most your own food?

AA: I don’t think, I can’t recall about the food, we were able to get butter and sugar and flour

I don’t think we had food rationing I remember the petrol rationing, yes, umm don’t

remember that much.

AC: Well maybe because your father managed to be self sufficient.

AA: Well that’s right, yes, yes.

AC: And when we look at the photographs of your homestead we can see there were some

big fruit trees and that sort of thing as well.

AA: Yes, yes having the grapes and having my Dad originally just had a vegetable plot for

ourselves and later on enlarged it as time went by so having your own fresh vegetables was

wonderful.

AC: Yes, and what about the fruit trees around the house, had he planted those?

AA: Oh well Dad would have planted all of those and along the fence line see that’s the front

fence there, there were almond trees and olive trees.

AC: And he put those in as well?

AA: He put those in as well and in the springtime the almond blossom was very, very pretty

because it had the, I think there was an olive tree, an almond tree, olive tree, an almond tree

something like that and it looked lovely and when the almond blossom came out it was

absolutely a picture.

AC: In this photograph this is still the one of your homestead, there is a big tree off to the left

what was that one?

AA: Well I think this first one would have been the plum tree and I think they were called

Santa Rosa plums and they were just beautiful. yes that one there and the other one you

can see behind there opposite that little bedroom that would have been the apricot tree.

AC: So you had plums and apricots.

AA: And grapes (Angela laughs)

AC: Yes, now we talked earlier of your Dad going into town and getting the produce and

doing the shopping, what sort of transport did he use in the early days?

AA: Horse and cart, in the horse and cart.

AC: Did he have one horse?

AA: Just the one horse, it was a workhorse and it took us everywhere. Yes, that was good

fun. Lucy and I would get dressed up and sit on either side of Dad on the little bench,

wooden bench and off we would trot and sometimes we would say to Dad can’t the horse go

faster and he would make a special clicking sound with his mouth and when he did that the

horse would start going a bit faster you see.

AC: And what sort of wheels did it have on that cart, was it uncomfortable

AA: Oh yes they were very noisy, very rumbley they were wooden wheels and with the steel

around the wood.

AC: On the outside?

AA: On the outside.

AC: So no tyres?

AA: Yes, great, yes, it was really a workhorse, a dray, like a workdray, so it made quite a

noise on the road, on the bitumen road.

AC: Did you go into Perth with your father occasionally?

AA: Yes, we used to go, I suppose we used to go in later years possibly every Saturday and

later on Dad got a motor car.

AC: That was an improvement (laughter), do you remember how long that trip took you into

Perth when you went with the horse and cart, was that hours?

AA: I never really checked for two young children it seemed a long time and no one had a

watch anyway.

AC: So you just took the day, did you leave early?

AA: No there was no rush anyway so long as the horse kept... (pause and Angela laughs)

and I remember we used to go to what is called Northbridge now and I forget the name of

the stables and stable the horse and there was a stock feeder place and Dad would point us

in the right direction how to get to Perth from there, Northbridge, I can’t remember the name

of the street now I suppose it would have been Newcastle Street I don’t know, it was one of

the side streets and we would go on the Horseshoe Bridge that’s right, Lucy and I, I think it

was Roe Street, the Horseshoe Bridge and I remember going down those little side steps

into the Perth Train Station, I used to love those little steps going down sort of round and

sharp down.

AC: And would you two girls go on your own and your Dad would do whatever business he

needed to do in Perth.

AA: Yes and he would say if we were going to see the pictures or like going to see the

movies as they call them now, we would tell him what time we were going and what time it

finishes and he would say be back there by a certain time.

AC: And do you remember how old you were?

AA: Oh gosh..., yes I would have been about nine I think Lucy would have been eleven.

AC: And the older girls didn’t go with you as much?

AA: Oh no they were already working you see there was an age difference. For Lucy and I it

would Saturday special thing.

AC: A treat?

AA: Yes, it was a treat.

AC: Now I know another thing you have spoken about that you used to do as a family was to

going to church.

AA: Oh yes that’s right, well that was St Anthony’s Church.

AC: In Wanneroo?

AA: Yes, Wanneroo and off we would trundle in the horse and cart that was good fun

because we were all dressed up and sit there and feel nice in your Sunday best and

especially when the weather was springtime and you could see all the wattle and the pink

myrtle and all the wildflowers it was just... so much of it, it was just beautiful.

AC: Even going to church was a treat.

AA: Yes, it was a treat that’s right then of course you would see some of the children from

school and you would have a little play after or before yes, yes.

AC: Did you ever get together with some of those families for picnics or outings?

AA: No, because everyone in that timeframe the (unclear) lived a long distance away some

of them lived up north Wanneroo they all had further to travel, yes …(unclear) north, south

which we were east, west and but it was a bit of an outing.

AC: Yes, and to meet with other people in the community I suppose.

AA: Yes, that’s right, yes it was.

AC: Now as you were growing up Angela what do you recall doing in your teenage years,

was there any sort of Activities in that area that you met with friends.

AA: Yes, after the war was finished I remember there was a huge sigh (unclear) when the

war was over and things started to move along they opened up started the Wanneroo Sports

Club and then Judy and I we both belonged to the Wanneroo Netball as it is called now and

we used to ride our bikes up to the Wanneroo Showgrounds as it was called and that’s

where they had the netball.

AC: And you used to play matches there?

AA: Yes, I can remember the, I think I’ve still got a badge actually from the Wanneroo Sports

Club at home somewhere and I remember the uniform (unclear) they were like a royal blue,

yes royal blue with a square neck and a white, two rows of white braid there somehow, yes.

AC: So you had to put your uniforms on and go off and play a match?

AA: Yes, I don’t know who sorted it who actually designed the uniform; well I made my own

anyway, yes.

AC: Now tell me about your friend Judy, this is Judy, this is Judy Sears

AA: Judy Sears, yes

AC: Who has now become Judy Paice. How did you two become friends, when did you first

get to know each other.

AA: Well they only lived down the road from us and I think the first time I ever saw Judy was

her parents, she was in the pram and they were going for a walk, the sun was setting, yes

and my mother told me who they were you see.

AC: Were you a little bit older than Judy?

AA: Yes, about three years older than Judy, yes, and I remember her sitting up in the pram

and her waves.

AC: And it’s been a long, long friendship ever since.

AA: Oh yes, yes it has.

AC: I know we have got lots of photos of the two of you going to balls and dances and

functions.

AA: And no matter where we went well we got on our bikes and went there, that’s what we

did you used your bike, we would say “get on your bike and go” (Angela laughs). But it was

fun, because we had so much energy.

AC: And it sounds like a lot more freedom as well.

AA: Oh it was you know, if we felt really strong we would peddle bikes all the way to Lake?

and that was a big..

AC: Wow that was a good peddle.

AA: It was, it was and in that era it was only a limestone track.

AC: Quite rough going?

AA: Yes, it was, they were quite wide the tracks, they were quite firm but we used to have

fun coming back because when we used to come down the corner of Wanneroo Road and

Gnangara Road the t-junction Luisini’s Vineyard was there and I used to say to Jude “let’s

crash into the fence” on the other side because the fence was a bit old and wobbly and so

what we would do go speeding down Gnangara Road, over Wanneroo Road get off the

bikes sort of fall off the bikes (Angela laughs) .. the fence, and we would just crack up

laughing. That was just, I still remember the feeling of fun of doing this crashing the bike you

know as long as it didn’t buckle the wheels you know, we never buckled the wheels

fortunately we just knew when to get off and throw the bike.

AC: You just created your own fun!

AA: Yes, we did, you had to and we made sure we were o.k. but if Mum and Dad knew they

would have died (laughter). We never told them what we used to do.

AC: I am sure you didn’t but most children are like that. But now you mentioned earlier that

you used to had to register or licence your bicycle, tell me about that.

AA: Yes, and everyone had a number plate, oh yes you were very proud and you attached

that to your...

AC: Mudguard or…

AA: Yes, yes and I can remember going up Wanneroo Road and paying my registration for

the bike pay it hourly I think it was two and sixpence.

AC: For the year?

AA: Yes, yes.

AC: And what was the name you gave to yourself and Judy when you rode around on your

bikes, did you give yourselves a name?

AA: Oh a nickname?

AC: Yes with your two bicycles.

AA: Oh, I used to call her brothers Biba David that was because she had two brothers David

and Ted and em

AC: And to yourselves you were always just Angie and Judy

AA: Jude, Ange, yes.. Hi Jude, Hi Ange you know that sort of thing, yes.

AC: Now did you go to school in the area?

AA: Yes, St Anthony’s Convent School.

AC: Was that based where the church was?

AA: Yes, so Judy went to the State school for a while and I think she might have gone to St.

Anthony’s for a short while, I can’t remember all that part anyway it was fun and going home

on the school bus could have been a bit of fun we used to have a little sing-song yes.

AC: With the singing bus driver, what was his name?

AA: Oh the singing bus driver Uncle Bob we used to call him yes, he had a lovely voice yes

and I remember sometimes he would have a crate of tomatoes in the, he used to take home

to his place and they must have been freshly picked because you could smell them nice

fresh fruit “Uncle Bob can we have one of your tomatoes please”? “Yes, go help yourselves”

you know because they had been freshly picked and they were beautiful. He was a good

man. I hope he had enough tomatoes to take home.

AA: I am sure he did yes.

AC: Sounds like he was very kind

AA: Yes, he was and if any of the children feel sick or had to stop and go to the toilet he was

very very caring. Very very good yes.

AC: And did he drive that bus for many years?

AA: Oh gosh he was there for quite a while I can’t remember how long for and then one of

his sons drove it, I think they had a bit of a break then one of his sons would drive it and then

Uncle Bob would do it again, yes he was very good.

AC: And what did you do as you got older, did you go dancing, what sort of entertainments

did you used to have?

AA: Yes, well later on when we got the bus on Saturday night Judy and I used to go to the

Embassy Ballroom that was as we were a bit older and what was the other one we used to

go to, it was behind William Street I think, it was called, I think the Battalion Drill Hall and

they used to have modern dancing there and a fantastic band and we used to go to that

dance and later on further down the track if we managed to stay at a friend’s place on Friday

night we would go to the YL dance hall I think in Pier Street I am not sure and that was, you

would get a different band follow the crowd.

AC: So there was always things laid on that you could use.

AA: Yes, and as long as you had accommodation to stay somewhere you were fine because

you never had the buses.

AC: And nice that you had a friend to go with you.

AA: Yes, that’s right and then on a weekend another favourite of ours was to listen to the hit

parade on a Sunday; sometimes I would go down to Judy’s and listen to the hit parade.

AC: So that was on the radio.

AA: Yes, on the radio yes, definitely on her radio and there was eight I think eight of them,

eight hits and then later on we might go to my place and listen to them at my place you know

so you would get eight pop little songs that were on the hit parade and that was turn up loud

you know (laughter) it’s all simple basic fun but I can still picture it quite well.

AC: Now you told me as well that you originally met your husband Ron through Judy.

AA: Yes, it was through Judy yes

AC: Tell us about that

AA: Oh yes, well Sid came down from the North West

AC: Was Sid Judy’s husband?

AA: Yes, that’s right Judy’s first husband, yes and I had heard the name mentioned Ron

Ayres: because when you go in a group of teenagers if you have not met them you have

heard the name anyway and I think it was at the Royal Show in Perth or something that was

our first outing together and it was fun.

AC: And you were all in a group, a group of youngsters?

AA: Yes

AC: How old were you Ange?

AA: Oh golly I was 18 or 19 or something I remember Ron bought me a kewpie doll, that

was sweet yes, a kewpie doll on a stick (Angela chuckles) no, it was great.

AC: Then what year did you get married?

AA: 1954, yes.

AC: Was that at St Anthony’s?

AA: No, I got married in the same church as my other two sisters did I think it was called the

Church of All Saints in Inglewood so in that era you had to get a special thing or something

from a priest because Jean had already been married there and Lucy so I got a special,

cannot remember the word, but anyway I was married there as well. It was a lovely little

church it is still there that little church.

AC: And did you have many members of the community there that you knew, family,

friends?

AA: Well mainly family and a few close friends, it wasn’t a huge wedding it was low key, I

think they were in those days sort of different to now.

AC: Not as big and expensive as today.

AA: Oh no it was a very simple ceremony and I remember we had the reception at Kinturn

Lodge in Kings Park Road that was one of the (unclear) what do you call it for special events

that was very popular and I think my other sisters had their reception there as well…so I am

getting lost for words now.

AC: That’s good they set the trend for you and made it easier.

AA: Yes, yes but it was lovely because it was opposite Kings Park and it was sort of a

traditional type place and I don’t know what’s there now, I think it was number one Kings

Park Road a lot of weddings went off, you know receptions there, it was lovely.

AC: And then where did you and Ron settle after you were married, where did you live?

AA: Well we were just renting a place in West Perth because it was around Christmas time

and we stuck with mum for a couple of weeks and we started looking around for a place and

in that era there wasn’t much accommodation and a lot of people rented half their houses,

we rented a couple of rooms and just bought the West Australia and looked for the ads and

got one in West Perth in Carr Street which is quite close to the city.

AC: Were you both working at the time?

AA: Yes, yes

AC: What were you doing?

AA: Well I was still doing my office job because I worked with the Red Cross Society and I

was a clerk typist and Ron was a trades person, he was doing ceilings.

AC: Now at what point of Ron’s career had he been the milkman, was that for the Wanneroo

area?

AA: Angela sighs. Well, yes that’s another story.

AC: Tell me about that one.

AA: Yes, well actually how it happened he got into that because he had been doing that

trade for some time he hadn’t been feeling very well his hands were all swollen.

AC: Was this when he was doing the ceilings?

AA: Yes and they had to, he hurt himself or something at work and they had to cut the

…(unclear) off, yes it was badly swollen he saw the doctor and he had tests and he said Mr

Ayres you will have to get some other occupation he said you have got arthritis and that is

not helping you because the cold water you see in the plastering and so that is when he

turned to going into milk round.

AC: Can you remember how he got that work?

AA: Well I think because he used to help his father when he was a youngster and he had a

circle of friends in North Perth you get to know what’s going on in that era everyone knew

everyone you know.

AC: Had some connection?

AA: Yes, some connection, yes and anyway so he went to Brownes Dairy and I think he just

leased a milk round at the time which is what they called a lease, lease it and so it was, I

have got an idea it was a horse and cart, that’s right a horse and cart I think it was

somewhere in Leederville, West Perth and he used to come home with some funny stories

(Angela laughs) I won’t tell you those.

AC: How did he end up doing that in the Wanneroo area?

AA: Well as time went on and milk in that era too the kids had school milk and Ron got to

hear through Brownes Dairy that there was a lease coming for Wanneroo you see and

Nollamara and that’s how that came up plus the person that he got the information from Ron

used to work for his father, the Gobbies and they had a dairy I think in Tuart Hill near Dog

Swamp somewhere and in that era by word of mouth and anyway to cut a long story short

we signed up the papers for that and it was sort of starting our own business.

AC: Wonderful!

AA: Yes, yes and of course he was allowed to do the school milk so that was a bonus an

extra thing and then in later years he got to deliver the newspapers so we were the

authorised newsagents for Wanneroo.

AC: So he did the milk and the newspapers for Wanneroo

AA: Yes, Yes so in actual fact they weren’t done at the same time together, he worked it out

so that one sort of there, I can’t really explain, I’ve got to think about that one how to explain

it all.

AC: He sort of had to roster in when he to deliver the milk.

AA: Yes, yes because you see I think, that’s right he got another fellow, a friend of ours as a

side job, he delivered the school milk he got a special little van and they had to be delivered

at certain times so the other

AC: Ready for their lunches?

AA: Yes, so that would be a more specific time because the milk couldn’t be left lying around

at the schools. So that was a handy little extra earner and then of course as Wanneroo

expanded and Ron had the paper round as well I mean there was nothing much, there

wasn’t much money made in the early days but as time went by.

AC: It did increase.

AA: Yes.

AC: Did he still keep the horse and cart then or did he progress (unclear)

AA: No actually he had a couple of accidents; he was very little he wasn’t killed actually. I

think he took a couple of weeks to learn the actual round and I think the first or the last night

he went with the other bloke went with him the previous one went with him, they were going

down Charles Street and I think what’s the name of it, I think Bourke Street, they had to go

around Bourke Street off there and a drunken driver hit the car and I wondered why Ron was

home so late in the morning and I said “what happened” and he said “I had an accident” oh

no and I said thank God you have a terrible… (unclear) it was bad enough.

AC: And he had to go to hospital?

AA: Well, he had to be stitched, yes he had to go to hospital…. (unclear), he got home about

11.30 and he came home stitched up and he showed me his backside and he had a cut

there and I think about 12 stitches there because he had shorts you see, you know running

shorts? So that was pretty, I was sort of wow I couldn’t believe it when he told me what had

happened.

AC: So it had its dangers for sure?

AA: Oh definitely yes.

AC: How long did he do that job for, a number of years?

AA: A long time, quite a long time and as the business grew and things improved he sort of

leased bits out and at that time you were allowed to do that and as the population increased

you see you were allowed to split it up and Nollamara was expanding very rapidly, that was

sort of Nollamara, Wanneroo. As time goes by you can do that.

AC: Did you move back to Wanneroo at any time during his work or were you still living in

West Perth.

AA: Oh no we were only in West Perth for a short while we actually, we should go back to

the other thing we were only there for a short while and the ceiling thing and all that, the

housing went bad it just went very quiet and we ended up getting a, because Ron worked on

farms nearly all his life we went as a married couple on a farm down the Stirling Ranges

down South and I think Syd and Judy did the same thing, they went somewhere else on

another farm and we went further South. So we were there about 18 months and I had Craig

at the Country Hospital he had … sickness child.

AC: That’s while you were at the Stirling Ranges

AA: Yes, so he was born in the Country Hospital while we were down on the farm.

AC: Where was your eldest child born?

AA: In St Annes in Mount Lawley.

AC: And that was a daughter?

AA: A daughter Rhonda, yes that’s right.

AC: Then you had your son Craig?

AA: That’s right and Craig was in Mt Barker Hospital and the youngest daughter then came

back on the farm and we were living in Perth and I had her at St Anne’s in Mount Lawley.

AC: At any point during your marriage did you come back and live in the Wanneroo or

Joondalup areas, you and Ron?

AA: Pretty close, when we left that farm in the Stirling Ranges Ron’s sister and brother in

law they vacated a house they had been renting in North Beach and knew the owner,

because we were looking to rent a place you see and they moved into their new house in

Nollamara well that was still like a brand new suburb and she said she would ask the owner

of the house if we could rent, because I think the owner of the house lived on the back

veranda and they used to give him a meal at night sort of thing and anyway we were

fortunate enough so we were allowed to rent his house so you see work things out word of

mouth with family and friends helped. It’s not busy like it is now so were fortunate and we

lived in Watermans Bay for three years and we had our name down on the State Housing

thing and yes that’s the other thing I forgot to mention, when we went down to the first farm

we let the State Housing know that we were going away but we still wanted our names left

on the list and they did send us a letter further down the track to say that if we were

interested in a house we can have it now but then we told them no were on the farm but

please keep our name on the list and we would let them know when we get back to Perth.

That’s how it was done.

AC: OK, yes

AA: So in the end we did get the house in Nollamara but it was a distant time frame if you

know what I mean, sort of, and so Nollamara is on the edge of Wanneroo anyway.

AC: And then at what point did you move to Greenwood because I know that’s where you

are living now, it’s almost coming full circle.

AA: Talk about coming full circle because after we left Nollamara we needed a bigger house

anyway and we moved to Mount Yokine and by that time the children were in high school the

two older ones but we still Ron kept our fingers on the pulse and what was happening you

know in Wanneroo and then the milkround of course and then of course the paper round

grew and it eventually came a full blown paper round really then of course they built the

Warwick Shopping Centre.

AC: So there was quite a bit of development going on.

AA: Yes, there was development going on and because he was the authorised newsagent

he had first pick of the shop you see Warwick was only tiny then, yes so there was only a

tiny centre newsagency, the chemist a delicatessen, Charlie Carters what was the other one,

I think they had a pathology thing, x-rays and a couple of other shops.

AC: So when would this have been, in the 70s?

AA: Got to stop and think now (Angela hesitates).

AC: Might have been around about early 70s?

AA: Yes, it would have been early 1970s I think when the Morley Shopping Centre opened;

yes I would have to check on that. I have still got the West Australian thing.

AC: Clipping?

AA: Where we signed the agreement, yes. The next time I come I will bring that and show it

to you when we actually signed for the whatever, the round.

AC: Yes, that’s very interesting.

AA: Yes, I thought I would keep that, I had kept a big ledger for the milk round and

unfortunately it got lost somewhere along the way. It was a shame because it was huge,

massive you know and these Brownes Dairy ones when you opened it up it was…and Ron

used to say “this is ridiculous” the great big ledger you had to fill in every day of what milk

you supplied there must be a quicker way and he worked out a much quicker method and

then the books (unclear) the accountant said “this is stupid” all this, you know he had this

(unclear) page after page.

AC: About a metre wide on each page?

AA: It was, yes, it was ridiculous it was so dated.

AC: So he worked out a better system as well.

AA: Oh yes, anyway the book shrank, I think each page was about that that wide and this

high and he worked out a quicker method of how filling in for how many things of milk and

how many things of yoghurt and cream and all that so Ron went and told them and they

changed from the great big ledger that Brownes Dairy had since the year 1800 or whatever

so all other things happened in between.

AC: Well that contributed to all the changes of how things happen doesn’t it.

AA: Yes, well I will never forget you had to pick up this massive ledger, it was so heavy.

AC: And that probably took a lot of his work time every day was filling in all the paperwork.

AA: It did, it did, yes. Well as the children grew up and we were still living in Nollamara and I

said Ron we need to get a desk so the management so …(unclear) nice little desk. I’ve still

got the desk it’s like a treasure actually (unclear) and it was an antique anyway I paid twenty

pound for it and that was back in the year oh I don’t know whatever 1950s.

AC: And that was probably good money then.

AA: It was, solid jarrah but anyway Rhonda she stamped the bill with the date she had a

stamp there you know stamp at the top and stamp at the bottom with a rubber stamp you

know that was her little job and she would write the name at the top and down the bottom so

when the docket was paid you would tear them, yes all that sort of that clicked in.

AC: Yes, the family made it work together didn’t they.

AA: Yes, that’s right, and then of course she learned to count the money too because it had

to go to the bank so we all got a little job to do.

AC: They are good memories though.

AA: And it was so much fun you know I think when we lived in Nollamara because the kids

grew up there and Judy and her family were down the road.

AC: So there was always that close … (unclear)

AA: Yes, yes that’s right and we would have bonfires on bonfire night but then of course

what happened further down the track with the bonfires some kids got very naughty or bad

and were throwing bommies over the seat and kids were getting blinded you know and that’s

why they banned Guy Fawkes night.

AC: No longer was it fun anymore.

AA: No it wasn’t and it go too serious and then they had I think …(unclear) they had a big

thing down at Claremont Showgrounds a special fireworks night controlled and I think I took

the kids 2 or 3 times but it was unfortunate that’s what happened because kids were just

throwing indiscriminately and sometimes getting injured.

AC: No longer fun. Now you told me that sadly you lost Ron last year.

AA: Yes, yes

AC: And what about the rest of your family members, have you still got sisters living here in

Perth.

AA: Yes, yes, I have still got my two sisters living in Perth my eldest Mary unfortunately

she’s been gone a few years now, she was living in..(unclear) her husband and family but

Jean and Lucy are close bye I can see Jean you know in Joondalup and Lucy in Marangaroo

so I keep in touch with them or I see them at least once a week.

AC: So the three of you still live in close proximity.

AA: Yes, that’s right I think Lucy is about a five minute drive away from my place and Jean is

a bit further.

AC: And the house you are in now in Greenwood you said that’s quite near where your

parents used to be as well.

AA: Yes, it’s very conveniently situated when we decided to downsize and came back from

having a caravan park up …(unclear), I said to Ron well we knew what we wanted we didn’t

want a big house anymore just a 3 by 1.

AC: Had the children left home?

AA: Then? Oh yes well I mean they were all married and got families of their own now you

see.

AC: So there was just you and Ron.

AA: Just me and Ron, yes and I said I said to Ron I want something new, near a bus stop

near the shops so when I can’t drive anymore I will just get the bus and it turned out this

house was…the only disadvantage was it’s on a roundabout and the agent said “now Mrs

Ayres wait until you have a look inside” you know (Angela laughs) and as soon as we walked

in the lounge and the kitchen we said that’s the size we want, yes.

AC: And how long have you been there?

AA: We moved in January 2001.

AC: Ok, that’s about eleven years.

AA: Yes, yes so that will be twelve years next January won’t it? Can’t believe it. Yes, it is

very convenient and I belong to a nice group of ladies, singing group, The Wanneroo

Singers and I am in close proximity to where I want to go, to where I am comfortable to drive.

AC: And you are still keeping up with your community activities and involved.

AA: Yes, yes, I did go to Trinity Seniors that’s in Perth. It’s a special school for seniors and

they do a lot of different things, art, singing, dancing whatever, you know there are a lot

choices in classes, I went there for about ten years I suppose and made a lot of nice friends

and we still keep in touch and there are four of us including myself meet once a month and

have lunch in Perth city and catch on each other’s activities.

AC: That’s so nice, you keep yourself busy and you are involved.

AA: Yes, well that’s right and it does help to pass the time away and I think sometimes the

time goes too quickly and of course the singing, we finished our singing practice last Friday

was the last one so now we have got a free run until February.

AC: OK, are you going any Christmas events, Christmas singing anything like that?

AA: Yes, yes we have got a big one at Timberside Village Retirement Complex that’s always

a popular one and it’s a night one so that’s in about a fortnight’s time and this year we have

got our own individual red tops, not individual all the same I should say.

AC: OK, so almost like a matching unit, very nice.

AA: Yes, all matching, because we all wore red blouses but we have got so many of us and

all different shades of red and they said I think it’s time we could have a theme with the

same top and one of the ladies is very good with her hands and she made the earrings,

dangling earrings and she made some colourful glittery tiaras.

AC: And it’s all ladies?

AA: All ladies, yes. The eldest one is 92 and she always looks the same, always well

groomed beautifully done and her hair.

AC: She obviously loves her singing?

AA: She does, she is a lovely lady. It’s very good and they are always very helpful if any of

us are sick they come and visit you or send you flowers.

AC: So there is still good community spirit.

AA: Oh definitely yes and I think singing makes you feel uplifted or something and you get a

nice rapport.

AC: So it’s cheerful and positive.

AA: It is, that’s right.

AC: And you are giving something back to the community.

AA: That’s right, yes

AC: But it seems that’s something your family has been doing for many years, just being

part of the Wanneroo and Joondalup community, Ron doing milk runs and newspaper work.

AA: Yes, that’s right, exactly, yes.

AC: Now just in closing can you think of anything particular that you would have noticed

about changes to the place since you were a young girl living in Wanneroo, obviously there

has been so much development.

AA: Oh, I think it’s, it’s all happened so quickly it’s just sort of slow rhythm until now I just

can’t believe is the size that it is. It’s amazing I remember when the Wanneroo Hospital was

first opened and I went to the opening of that and we were living in Quinns Rock, we were

semi-retired then but we were still working and you get to know another group of friends in

Quinns Rock and in that era it was a lot of retired farmers or farmers holidaying because

they always had a holiday house.

AC: So was that a little bit after the 60s?

AA: Yes, that’s right so you get to know a different type of people, yes we made the holiday

house there a little holiday cottage we got to know a new group of people later and we

decided to live there you know but that’s another timeframe of my life really.

AC: And now you see all the development that’s stretched up beyond there as well.

AA: Yes, it has when we had the little holiday cottage the kids would say Oh Mum and Dad

that was the best thing that you and dad did because they were teenagers they were all in

high school and they would bring their friends and we looked at this house, we were only

going to rent a place to have like a holiday anyway the agent showed us around and he said

“why don’t you think of buying one Ron?” I think we got that one for 9,600 pounds, not

pounds, dollars or whatever it was, some ridiculous price you know and that’s why we chose

to buy but it wasn’t a mansion but it was a typical holiday place you know.

AC: Quite rustic?

AA: It was a bit rustic and a bit rough around the edges but it had the basics in there, it was

close to the water plus at the end of the street it was still a pretty crummy sort of a road.

AC: Do you remember the address?

AA: Yes, 8 Terry Road and there was a tennis court at the bottom of the street and the kids

could walk up to Quinns Rock I think they had a billiard table, no I think there was a caravan

park with a bit of a shop there and you know the usual sort of stuff and I remember there

wasn’t any rubbish bin pickups so what you had to do when you went home on the weekend

don’t forget to take your rubbish with you and they had a special big waste bin with a big sign

on it “Dump your rubbish in here”.

AC: Otherwise it didn’t get removed.

AA: Well that’s right well no one had bins you see so it was up to you to make sure the thing

…(unclear) bit on the nose but never mind it served the purpose.

AC: And everyone had a good time.

AA: And then when you met your next door neighbours some of them were oldtimers like old

fishermen then you get talking to them then they tell all their ..

AC: Interesting stories.

AA: Yes and it was quite fun and I remember the next doors they had tomatoes growing and

strawberries and we were talking, it was hot weather, the bobtails you know those little…

(unclear) and getting away from the other thing and I said I would have to check on our

strawberries and the lovely tomatoes and strawberries, they had a gourmet table we laughed

about that. Just little things.

AC: Lots of happy memories.

AA: Yes, yes.

AC: Well Angela thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy schedule to come

and share those memories with us today and maybe in time we will get to do another

interview because I am sure there is still so much to talk about.

AA: Oh I am sure there is, I have got to think, my memory is getting like a worn out filing

cabinet (Angela laughs).

AC: Thank you so much I really appreciate that today.

End of recording

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