81314 Transcript 717fair

8/10/2019 81314 Transcript 717fair

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1 UNI TED STATES COURT OF FEDERAL CLAI MS

23

4 FAI RHOLME FUNDS, I NC. , ET AL. , )

5 Pl ai nt i f f s, ) Case No.

6 vs. ) 13- 465C

7 THE UNI TED STATES OF AMERI CA, )

8 Def endant . )

910

11

12 Cour t r oom 4

13 Howard T. Markey Nat i onal Cour t s Bui l di ng

14 717 Madi son Pl ace, N. W.

15 Washi ngt on, D. C.

16 Wednesday, August 13, 201417 11: 00 a. m.

18 St atus Conf er ence

19

20

21 BEFORE: THE HONORABLE MARGARET M. SWEENEY

22

2324

25 El i zabet h M. Farr el l , CERT, Di gi t al Transcr i ber


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Fairholme Funds, Inc., et al. v. USA 8/13/2014

(301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555For The Record, Inc.

1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2 - - - - -3 ( Pr oceedi ngs cal l ed t o or der at 11: 03 a. m. )

4 THE COURT: Good morni ng. Pl ease be seat ed.

5 ( Chorus of good mor ni ngs. )

6 THE COURT: Thank you f or your pat i ence i n

7 r eschedul i ng l ast Thur sday s stat us conf erence - - r egul ar l y

8 schedul ed st atus conf erence. I had t he opport uni t y t o have

9 my cast and sl i ng t aken of f , and not havi ng t he use of my10 r i ght ar m f or ei ght weeks has real l y been pr obl emat i c. So,

11 t hank you f or your pat i ence. I t s good t o see al l of you.

12 What I m goi ng t o do i n t he f ut ur e i s r at her t han

13 one day, t wo days bef ore a r egul ar l y schedul ed st atus

14 conf er ence, one, f or you al l t o l et me know i f , i n f act , you

15 do need i t , l et me know who s appear i ng, and al so t he i ssues

16 t hat wi l l be addr essed. Not t hat i t s pr obl emat i c not t o17 know what s goi ng i n, but j ust bei ng a cur i ous per son, i t s

18 good t o know what I m goi ng t o see t hat morni ng.

19 So, l et s begi n. Let s have counsel i dent i f y

20 t hemsel ves f or t he record.

21 MR. COOPER: Cer t ai nl y, Your Honor , t hank you.

22 Char l es Cooper f or t he Fai r hol me Pl ai nt i f f s. And wi t h me

23 t hi s mor ni ng, as usual , ar e my col l eagues Vi nce Col at r i ano - -24 MR. COLATRI ANO: Good morni ng, Your Honor .

25 MR. COOPER: - - and Davi d Thompson.


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1 THE COURT: Good morni ng.

2 MR. COOPER: And none of my col l eagues are3 part i ci pat i ng by phone t oday.

4 THE COURT: Yes, i ndeed. And f or t he Uni t ed

5 St at es, Mr . Di nt z er .

6 MR. DI NTZER: Good mor ni ng, Your Honor , Kenneth

7 Di nt zer f or t he Uni t ed St at es. And wi t h me at counsel t abl e

8 i s Gr egg Schwi nd and El i zabet h Hosf ord. And Mr . Schwi nd wi l l

9 be speaki ng on behal f of t he Uni t ed St ates t oday.10 THE COURT: Ver y good, t hank you.

11 MR. DI NTZER: Thank you, Your Honor .

12 MR. COOPER: Thank you, Your Honor . And I

13 cer t ai nl y agr ee f or our si de t hat i t wi l l make sense f or us

14 t o i dent i f y f or t he Cour t what we pl an t o br i ng bef or e t he

15 Cour t as t hi s pr ocess moves f orward. So, we l ook f orward t o

16 t hat .17 Today, we r e goi ng t o br i ng t o t he Cour t t hr ee

18 pr obl ems. I r egr et t o l oad you up wi t h some t hi ngs we d l i ke

19 f or you to consi der and addr ess.

20 THE COURT: I t s al ways an i nt el l ectual f east, so I

21 wel come i t .

22 MR. COOPER: Yes, Your Honor . The most i mport ant

23 one, by f ar , however , i s our posi t i on, Your Honor , our24 submi ssi on t o you t hat t he Gover nment i s not compl yi ng wi t h

25 t he Cour t s J ul y 16t h or der gr ant i ng i n par t , i n ver y l ar ge


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1 par t , and denyi ng i n si gni f i cant par t , t he Gover nment s

2 mot i on f or a pr ot ecti ve or der . The par t of t he or der t hat3 t he Gover nment i s not compl yi ng wi t h, obvi ousl y, i s t he par t

4 t hat deni ed t hei r mot i on f or a pr ot ecti ve or der and t hei r

5 r equest ed r el i ef . And t he Gover nment s noncompl i ance, Your

6 Honor , we woul d submi t t o you i s cat egor i cal and i t s

7 whol esal e wi t h r espect t o t hat par t of t he or der .

8 The Cour t s order , Your Honor , at t empt ed, i n your

9 wor ds, t o f ashi on a sol ut i on t o bal ance t he par t i es10 compet i ng needs and t o compl y wi t h t he di ct at es of t he

11 del i ber at i ve pr ocess pr i vi l ege. So, t he Cour t order ed t hat

12 t he j ur i sdi ct i onal di scover y pr oceed i n phases. And i n t hi s

13 f i r st phase, t he Cour t l ar gel y gr ant ed t he t empor al r el i ef

14 and pr ot ect i on t hat t he Government had r equest ed.

15 Most part i cul ar l y, t he Cour t gr ant ed t he Gover nment

16 t he pr ot ect i on i t sought most ur gent l y. That i s t o be17 r el i eved of t he obl i gat i on t o respond t o our di scovery

18 r equest s seeki ng cur r ent i nf or mat i on - - by cur r ent I mean al l

19 post - August 17, 2012 net wor t h sweep i nf ormat i on - - on t he

20 t opi cs of f ut ur e pr of i t abi l i t y and whet her and when t he

21 conser vat or shi ps mi ght end. I t was that post - t hi r d amendment

22 net wor t h sweep i nf or mat i on t hat t he Gover nment s decl ar ant s,

23 Mr . Wat t and Mr . St egman, and there may have been another24 one, cl ai med woul d r i sk essent i al l y economi c upset of a gr ave

25 nat ur e i n t he housi ng mar ket s i f t hat wer e t o be di scl osed.


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1 So, t he Cour t r ul ed t hat t he Gover nment was i ndeed

2 pr ot ected, at l east i n phase one. Thi s was wi t hout pr ej udi ce3 t o come back t o t he Cour t . But i n phase one, t hey wer e

4 prot ect ed f rom t hat - - havi ng t o respond at al l t o t hose

5 di scover y - - our di scover y r equest s on t hose - - on t hose

6 subj ect mat t er s. But t he Cour t di d or der t hat t he Gover nment

7 di d have to pr oduce i nf or mat i on r esponsi ve t o our r equest s on

8 t hose subj ect mat t ers wi t h r espect t o two date ranges t hat

9 t he Cour t ver y cl ear l y speci f i ed and t hat l ar gel y conf or med,10 not qui t e, t o t he Gover nment s r equest ed date ranges, and

11 I l l come back t o t hose mor e speci f i cal l y i n a moment .

12 But as t o our di scover y r equest s r egar di ng t opi cs

13 ot her t han f ut ur e pr of i t abi l i t y and t he end of t he

14 conser vat orshi p, t he Cour t ordered t he Government t o pr oduce

15 i nf or mat i on f or a sl i ght l y el ongat ed per i od of t i me, t hat i s

16 si x weeks past t he August 17t h, 2012 net wor t h sweep up t o17 t hat , i n ot her wor ds, Sept ember 30t h, 2012.

18 Now, at t he r i sk of bel abor i ng t hi s, Your Honor , I

19 want t o recal l and t o reci t e the speci f i c l anguage of t he key

20 oper at i ve par agr aph of t hi s Cour t s or der , because I t hi nk

21 t hat s real l y what s at i ssue her e and i t seems t o us t o be

22 cl ear . And, agai n, I m readi ng - - I m quot i ng f rom the

23 order . I t s t he bot t om of page t hree.24 THE COURT: I have i t i n f r ont of me, t hank you.

25 MR. COOPER: Okay. Wel l , t hen, r ead al ong i f you


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1 wi l l , Your Honor . J ur i sdi ct i onal di scovery i n t hi s mat t er

2 wi l l pr oceed i n phases. I n t he f i r st phase, def endant shal l3 r espond t o di scover y request s r egar di ng i nf or mat i on f r om

4 Apr i l 1, 2008, up t o and i ncl udi ng December 31, 2008; and

5 f r om J une 1, 2011, up t o an i ncl udi ng August 17, 2012.

6 August 17, t he net wor t h sweep dat e, of cour se.

7 So, Your Honor , t he Cour t basi cal l y gave t he

8 Gover nment a pass on r espondi ng at al l wi t hi n a two and a

9 hal f year per i od between those dates, t hose - - and those we10 concede, cer t ai nl y, ar e t he cri t i cal t i me per i ods t hat ar e at

11 i ssue her e. But , st i l l , t he Gover nment doesn t have t o

12 r espond at al l wi t h r espect t o anythi ng not i n t he speci f i ed

13 dat e r anges, but i t has t o gi ve us ever yt hi ng wi t hi n t hose

14 speci f i ed date r anges, Your Honor , under t hi s paragr aph.

15 THE COURT: That i s r el evant wi t h r egard t o t he

16 t opi cs t hat you pr opound.17 MR. COOPER: Yes, Your Honor . That s r esponsi ve.

18 And t he - - al t hough, as the order cont i nues, Def endant s

19 shal l pr epar e a det ai l ed pr i vi l eged l og f or al l document s

20 f rom t hese respect i ve t i me per i ods t hat i t assert s are

21 pr i vi l eged. So, anyt hi ng t hat t hey r e not goi ng t o gi ve us

22 wi t hi n t hose t i me per i ods, t hat s responsi ve t o t he r equest ,

23 we get t o at l east see and pot ent i al l y cont est whet her t hey24 ar e pr i vi l eged.

25 The or der cont i nues, I n addi t i on, def endant shal l


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1 r espond t o di scover y r equest s f or non- pr i vi l eged i nf or mat i on

2 f r om August 18, 2012, up t o and i ncl udi ng Sept ember 30t h,3 2012, r egar di ng t opi cs ot her t han t he f ut ur e prof i t abi l i t y of

4 t he ent er pr i ses or whet her and when t he conser vat or shi ps

5 mi ght end. I n ot her wor ds, t hose, accor di ng t o t he

6 Gover nment , super - sensi t i ve subj ect mat t er s t hat anyt hi ng

7 af t er t he net wor t h sweep t hey j ust don t want t o gi ve. But

8 we r e sayi ng on t he other t opi cs, we get t hat ext r a si x weeks

9 of i nf or mat i on.10 And, so, t he Cour t , i n i t s concl udi ng sent ences,

11 accor di ngl y, Def endant s mot i on f or a pr ot ect i ve or der i s

12 gr ant ed i n par t and deni ed i n par t .

13 Your Honor, despi t e t he Cour t s order, what we

14 bel i eve i s i t s cl ear i nt endment , t he Gover nment i s t aki ng t he

15 posi t i on t hat i t has no obl i gat i on t o r espond at al l t o over

16 hal f of our document r equests. No obl i gat i on at al l t o17 r espond wi t hi n t he dat e r anges f or hal f of our document

18 r equest s. I want t o gi ve you a coupl e of what I consi der t o

19 be vi vi d and, i n f act , egr egi ous exampl es.

20 The cent ral j ur i sdi ct i onal i ssue bef ore t he Court ,

21 as you ve sai d a coupl e of t i mes now, especi al l y i n t he

22 Februar y di scover y or der , f r om whi ch al l t hi s now i s f l owi ng,

23 t he cent r al i ssue i s whet her FHFA i s t he Uni t ed St at es, f or24 pur poses of your j ur i sdi ct i on under t he Tucker Act . They say

25 i t s not . I t s a pr i vate company.


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1 So, i n your wor ds, agai n, f r om t he Febr uar y or der ,

2 was FHFA - - excuse me, whet her - - t he quest i on i s whet her3 FHFA was an agent and ar m of t he Tr easur y or whet her i t was a

4 pr i vat e company. And t hat s, as t he Cour t acknowl edged,

5 enf or ced wi t h t he Sl at t er y deci s i on, t hat s a cont ext -

6 speci f i c i nqui ry t hat goes to pur pose and i ncl udes - - i s not

7 l i mi t ed t o, but i ncl udes whet her Tr easur y - - or t he FHFA,

8 excuse me, act ed at t he behest of Treasury.

9 Our document r equest number 13 i s as f ol l ows: We10 seek any and al l document s r el at i ng to FHFA s det ermi nat i on

11 t hat i t i s obl i gat ed t o maxi mi ze Tr easur y s r et ur n on i t s

12 i nvest ment i n t he compani es or ot her wi se pr i or i t i ze t he

13 i nt er est of t he t axpayer s. Now, Your Honor , we f i nd i t

14 di f f i cul t t o i magi ne r eal l y that t her e s an i nqui r y that goes

15 mor e di r ect l y than t hi s one t o t he hear t of t he quest i on

16 whet her FHFA was act i ng as an agent or ar m of Tr easur y when17 i t agr eed t o maxi mi ze Tr easur y s r et ur n on i t s seni or

18 pr ef er r ed st ock by payi ng 100 per cent of al l pr of i t s - - al l

19 f ut ur e pr of i t s i n per pet ui t y t o Tr easur y and, consequent l y,

20 i n t he same act , dest r oyi ng compl et el y t he val ue of t he

21 shar es of al l ot her shar ehol der s. What goes mor e cl ear l y t o

22 t he hear t of whose i nt er est i t was adher i ng t o t han t hat

23 quest i on?24 Your Honor , yet t he Gover nment cat egor i cal l y

25 r ef uses t o r espond - - t o pr ovi de any responsi ve i nf or mat i on


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1 wi t h respect t o t hat quest i on.

2 One mor e exampl e and I l l get of f of t hi s . But3 t hat one i s our document r equest number 17. I t seeks any and

4 al l document s ref l ect i ng communi cat i ons rel at i ng t o t he net

5 wor t h sweep, communi cat i ons r el at i ng t o t he net wor t h sweep,

6 between FHFA and/ or Treasur y on t he one hand and Fanni e s and

7 Fr eddi e s boar d of di r ectors and execut i ves on t he ot her

8 hand. So, anyt hi ng bet ween FHFA and Fanni e s and Fr eddi e s

9 boar d of di r ectors or anyt hi ng between Tr easur y and Fanni e s10 and Freddi e s boar d of di r ect i ons.

11 Agai n, what t hey were sayi ng about t he net wor t h

12 sweep - - i f t her e s anyt hi ng t hat wi l l r ef l ect who was i n

13 char ge, who s t he boss her e, and whet her t he board of

14 di r ect or s, who has t he f undament al obl i gat i on i n l aw and i n

15 pol i cy, t o at t end t o t he i nt er est s of al l t he st akehol der s,

16 i ncl udi ng t he pr i vat e shar ehol der s, what coul d be mor e17 r eveal i ng about i t t han t hose communi cat i ons, Your Honor , we

18 woul d submi t . And, yet , agai n, t he Government cat egor i cal l y

19 says, you pr ot ect ed t hem f r om havi ng t o respond at al l , not

20 j ust wi t hi n t he dat e ranges, but at al l t o t hat quest i on.

21 That s - - t hese ar e t wo exampl es. Over hal f of our document

22 r equests, t he Gover nment t hi nks, f al l i nt o t hi s pr ot ecti on.

23 THE COURT: Do t hey i nvoke execut i ve pr i vi l ege?24 MR. COOPER: No, Your Honor . No. And, i n f act ,

25 your or der makes cl ear t hat t hey can i nvoke t hat and t hey can


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1 wi t hhol d document s, but t hey have t o gi ve us a pr i vi l ege l og

2 l i ke every ot her case ever l i t i gat ed. So, no, t hat s - -3 THE COURT: So, t hat hasn t occur r ed?

4 MR. COOPER: No. As I under st and t hei r posi t i on - -

5 and we l l hear i t i n a moment - - i t i s t hat your or der

6 gr ant ed t hem t hi s r el i ef .

7 THE COURT: I see, t hank you.

8 MR. COOPER: Yes.

9 THE COURT: When you sai d cat egor i cal , I di dn t10 know - -

11 MR. COOPER: Oh, I m sor r y.

12 THE COURT: I know what cat egor i cal means, but

13 somet i mes l awyer s use t hat t erm perhaps a l i t t l e more br oadl y

14 t han Merr i am- Webst er woul d. So, I j ust want ed t o know i f

15 cat egor i cal t r ul y meant cat egor i cal i n t hi s case.

16 MR. COOPER: And I may wel l be mi susi ng i t , but l et17 me j ust say t hat wi t h r espect t o t hese par t i cul ar r equest s

18 and several more l i ke t hem, t he Gover nment has, on a

19 whol esal e basi s, sai d, we don t have t o r espond at al l , no

20 mat t er what dat e ranges t he responsi ve i nf or mat i on may f al l

21 i n, we r e pr ot ect ed. These document r equest s, t he j udge

22 t hr ew i n t he t rash, and t hi s l anguage t hat I j ust r ead t o

23 you. So, Your Honor , we di sagr ee wi t h t hat posi t i on.24 THE COURT: So f ar t here have been no mot i ons t o

25 compel t hat have been f i l ed wher e each par t y has ar t i cul at ed,


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1 requi re, f or f ut ure s tat us conf erences , t hat al l - - that at

2 l east t opi cs be f l eshed out and, hopef ul l y, i ssues proper l y3 f r amed so I know what s comi ng.

4 MR. COOPER: Your Honor , f ai r enough. And - -

5 THE COURT: I m not bei ng cr i t i cal of t he part i es .

6 MR. COOPER: Mm- hmm, yeah.

7 THE COURT: I m j ust l et t i ng you know what I i nt end

8 t o do i n t he f ut ur e.

9 MR. COOPER: And as, you know, I and my col l eagues10 were t hi nki ng about t hi s di sput e now t hat has ar i sen over t he

11 cour se of t he l ast coupl e weeks, i t ver y wel l di d occur t o me

12 t hat t hi s was of f er i ng up t o you more t han you coul d possi bl y

13 cope wi t h wi t hout br i ef i ng. And, so, we - - I hear what

14 you r e sayi ng and, you know, we woul d be happy t o pr ovi de - -

15 THE COURT: Agai n, I m not bei ng cr i t i cal of you.

16 I had of f er ed ear l y on, as I do i n ever y si ngl e one of my17 cases, t hat i f a di sput e ar i ses, pl ease come t o me. You

18 know, I want ed t o have st at us conf erences i n t hi s case ever y

19 ot her week so that we coul d st ay on t op of t he i ssues t hat

20 ar i se because I t hought I woul d be abl e t o ni p any st i cky

21 i ssues i n t hei r i nf ancy. But I - - par t i cul ar l y because i n

22 t hi s - - i n t he pr ocedur al postur e of t hi s case, we r e deal i ng

23 wi th di scovery i n ai d of j ur i sdi ct i on.24 MR. COOPER: Yes.

25 THE COURT: So, I t hought i t woul d be a ver y


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1 sensi bl e t hi ng t o do, and I won t say t hat i t wasn t

2 sensi bl e, but I t hi nk t o have a f ul l ai r i ng and al l ow me t o3 gi ve t he best rul i ng, I need t o have i ssues pr oper l y br i ef ed.

4 MR. COOPER: Cer t ai nl y, Your Honor . Wel l , and

5 t hi s - -

6 THE COURT: Because I m t r yi ng t o j uggl e, okay, who

7 sai d what , you know. I r eal l y need t o know what you

8 pr opounded, how t hey r esponded, as opposed t o si t t i ng here

9 sayi ng, now, what was i t , t he Pl ai nt i f f sai d t hi s, t he10 Def endant sai d t hat , what . So, i t s j ust not as ef f i ci ent .

11 But i t s al ways good t o hear what s goi ng on i n t he case.

12 MR. COOPER: Wel l , and, Your Honor , ki nd of beef s I

13 have t o br i ng t o you, ar e mor e bi t e- si zed and I don t t hi nk

14 t hey wi l l r equi r e - - t hat t hey r e of t hi s nat ure, t hat i s a

15 ver y l ar ge and, we t hi nk, ext r emel y i mpor t ant i ssue t o be

16 resol ved j ust as qui ckl y as possi bl e.17 THE COURT: Sur e. Mr . Schwi nd, i f you want t o - -

18 MR. SCHWI ND: I was wonder i ng, Your Honor , whet her

19 i t woul d make sense f or me t o respond t o Counsel s st at ement s

20 - - pr evi ous st at ement s bef or e movi ng on t o anot her i ssue.

21 We woul d appr eci at e an oppor t uni t y t o do t hat . We def i ni t el y

22 agr ee wi t h t he Cour t t hat t hi s woul d be a pr oper subj ect f or

23 Pl ai nt i f f s t o submi t a mot i on t o compel . We do t hi nk t hat s24 t he pr oper way t o r esol ve t hi s i ssue wi t h a f ul l br i ef i ng by

25 t he par t i es. But Counsel has made a number of st at ement s


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1 t hat I t hi nk we can r espond pr et t y qui ckl y t o r i ght now. We

2 have not heard - -3 THE COURT: Why don t - -

4 MR. SCHWI ND: We have not heard t he words

5 cat egor i cal and whol esal e noncompl i ance bef or e t hi s

6 mor ni ng.

7 THE COURT: And you r e a ver y honest man, a man of

8 great i nt egr i t y. I have great respect f or you. But ,

9 honest l y, I haven t f or got t en what Mr . Cooper sai d, and I m10 goi ng t o l et Mr . Cooper f i ni sh what he has t o say and t hen

11 you l l have your oppor t uni t y t o r espond, because r at her t han

12 havi ng counsel keep poppi ng up, i t s - - I t hi nk i t s mor e

13 ef f ect i ve i f I j ust - - we gi ve Mr. Cooper hi s opport uni t y t o

14 say what ever he needs. And I don t t ake i t as a per sonal

15 at t ack on you. You r e t wo super b advocat es wi t h gr eat

16 r eput at i ons and you have, not sur pr i si ngl y, di amet r i cal l y17 opposi t e vi ews of t he wor l d. That s why cases ar e i n

18 l i t i gat i on.

19 So, wi t h t hat sai d, bel i eve me, I l ook f or war d t o

20 hear i ng what you have t o say. I wi l l consi der wi t h gr eat

21 t hought ever yt hi ng you have t o say. I wi l l not be r ul i ng

22 t hi s morni ng. I l l probabl y be set t i ng br i ef i ng deadl i nes.

23 But pl ease know t hat you wi l l have an oppor t uni t y.24 MR. SCHWI ND: Thank you, Your Honor .

25 THE COURT: And I wel come hear i ng f r omyou. Thank


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1 you, Mr . Schwi nd.

2 MR. COOPER: And I can be br i ef on t he ot her s, but3 I f i r st want t o endor se compl et el y t he char acteri zat i on of my

4 f r i end f or t he Gover nment and cer t ai nl y have i nt ended t o use

5 no wor ds whi ch gi ve any ki nd of per sonal of f ense.

6 I wi l l pr oceed now, Your Honor , i f I may, t o t he,

7 you know, much mor e, I t hi nk, bi t e- s i zed, I t hi nk I put i t ,

8 concerns.

9 One i s wi t h r espect t o ESI hi t r epor t s. Your10 Honor , t hese ar e the r epor t s, I m sur e you know, whi ch, you

11 know, ar e ki nd of second nat ur e now t o l i t i gat or s and

12 l i t i gat i on i n t he wor l d of el ectr oni cal l y st or ed i nf or mat i on

13 and has been f or decades. And t hey r e t he r eport s t hat

14 i dent i f y t he number of hi t s t hat a par t i cul ar sear ch t er m

15 yi el ds i n terms of r esponsi ve document s i n an ESI database of

16 some ki nd, usual l y conf i ned t o par t i cul ar cust odi ans.17 THE COURT: Exactl y.

18 MR. COOPER: And we used - - i n t hi s case, t he

19 Gover nment and we used t hose hi t - - i ni t i al hi t r epor t s t he

20 way t hat l i t i gat or s al most al ways, at l east i n our

21 exper i ence, use t hem, whi ch i s t o i dent i f y sear ch t er ms t hat ,

22 you know, need t o be nar r owed because t hey r e j ust br i ngi ng

23 back t oo many hi t r eport s, you know, t oo many document s, and24 t o r ef i ne t he i nqui r y and t he sear ches and what have you. We

25 used t hose - - t he Gover nment pr ovi ded t hose hi t r epor t s t o us


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1 i n t hat cont ext and assur ed us, up unt i l I t hi nk l ast week,

2 but ver y r ecent l y, t hat we woul d be pr ovi ded t he ESI hi t3 repor t s wi th thei r product i ons.

4 And, Your Honor , t hi s i s de r i gueur , t hi s i s

5 st andar d oper at i ng pr ocedur e. We ar e - - we have - - our

6 col l ect i ve exper i ence i s t hat we have never been i n a case

7 wher e t hose wer e wi t hhel d. And, Your Honor , t hat i ncl udes

8 our cases, you know, over many years now i n many, many cases

9 l i t i gat i ng agai nst the Uni ted Stat es.10 Now, we ve even done a l i t t l e r esear ch on t hi s and

11 we can t f i nd any case wher e a cour t has uphel d t he cl ai m

12 t hat t he hi t r epor t s don t have t o be pr ovi ded. We f ound - -

13 ever y - - i n t he f ew cases wher e t hi s i s - - t her e s been a

14 ski r mi sh over t hi s, t he hi t r epor t s wer e r equi r ed t o be

15 pr ovi ded. We have not f ound any case wher e t hey r e al l owed

16 t o be shi el ded. So, t he Gover nment s ref usal t o pr ovi de17 t hose r epor t s, whi ch ar e cri t i cal t o moni t or i ng, Your Honor ,

18 and under st andi ng t he scope of t he pr oduct i on t hat i s bei ng

19 pr ovi ded - - i f you have sear ch t er ms t hat t he par t i es have

20 agr eed on and i t br i ngs back 1, 000 r esponses and you get 10

21 document s, you know t o ask some quest i ons. But i f you don t

22 know t hat i t br ought back 1, 000 r esponses, you don t know

23 t hat you have some quest i ons t o ask.24 Your Honor , t he f i nal t hi ng i s t he document

25 pr oduct i on t i met abl e. A mont h ago al most now - - December


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1 [ si c] 16t h, I guess, when we wer e l ast bef or e you, t he

2 Gover nment r epr esent ed t hat i t - - at t hat t i me, i t expected3 document pr oduct i on t o be compl et e wi t hi n a mont h. I t s been

4 now j ust a coupl e days shor t of t hat mont h anni ver sar y, and

5 t he most r ecent i nf or mat i on we now have f r om t he Gover nment

6 i s i t s goi ng t o t ake f our mor e mont hs, t hat i s f i ve mont hs

7 f r om t he dat e when t he Gover nment pr edi ct ed f our mont hs.

8 And t he onl y t hi ng we ve got t en so f ar i s a

9 pr oduct i on of about 1, 900 document s, by our r eckoni ng, 8510 per cent of whi ch ar e al l publ i c document s, SEC f i l i ngs, news

11 - - pr ess r el eases, t hi ngs of t hi s nat ur e. So, onl y 15

12 per cent or t her eabout s - - and agai n, t hi s i s our r ough

13 r eckoni ng - - but a smal l percent age i n any event , Your Honor ,

14 are i nt ernal document s. I mi ght al so add t hat ever y one of

15 t he document s, i ncl udi ng the publ i c ones, have been st amped

16 conf i dent i al . But whet her t hat s her e nor t her e, we ar e ver y17 concer ned about wher e t hi ngs st and i n t er ms of - - i n t er ms of

18 t he document pr oduct i on t i me l i ne and t hi s r eal l y ver y l ar ge

19 sl i ppage i n the expect at i on.

20 THE COURT: I n f act , I mean, I have not even

21 ent er ed a di scover y schedul i ng or der , whi ch i s somet hi ng t hat

22 I want t o do. I want t o have some sor t of end dat e. I l i ke

23 havi ng or der s wi t h end dat es. They can al ways be r evi si t ed,24 but t hey r e good housekeepi ng or der s. And I kept wai t i ng t o

25 hear f r om t he par t i es as t o when, you know, I coul d put t hat


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1 i n pl ace. So, I guess t hat woul d be t he subj ect of an or der ,

2 you know, even - - I l l get your r especti ve vi ews on - - we l l3 see, so t hat I can put somet hi ng i n pl ace, because I f eel

4 ver y uncomf or t abl e not havi ng ent er ed t hat as yet .

5 MR. COOPER: And, Your Honor , t hat i s i n par t , and

6 i n l arge part , our respons i bi l i t y and we, t oo, regret t hat

7 and we r e goi ng t o t r y t o hel p i dent i f y such a - - appr opr i at e

8 dates f or such an order .

9 THE COURT: I mean, t he r eason I hadn t was because10 we knew we were awai t i ng document s t o be f or t hcomi ng f r om t he

11 Gover nment and i t j ust di dn t seem appr opr i at e t o ent er , i n

12 t hi s par t i cul ar case, and i t s a r ar e i nst ance, t o or der an

13 end dat e because you were goi ng t o have t o t ake - - or

14 possi bl y, you know, f ol l ow up wi t h deposi t i ons or what ever

15 you were goi ng t o do. But I was wai t i ng t o hear f r omyou al l

16 - - agai n, I hadn t put i t i n an order . I j ust assumed t hat17 was goi ng t o be comi ng.

18 MR. COOPER: Yes.

19 THE COURT: So, you wi l l see i n an order t hat wi l l

20 f ol l ow i n t he next f ew days t hat I wi l l be aski ng you f or

21 your , you know, pr esumabl y respect i ve vi ews as t o - - I mean,

22 i f you can agr ee on a dat e, gr and. But i f you can t , gi ve me

23 your r espect i ve dat es .24 MR. COOPER: Thank you, Your Honor .

25 THE COURT: Thank you ver y much.


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1 MR. SCHWI ND: Good morni ng, Your Honor .

2 THE COURT: Good morni ng, Mr . Schwi nd.3 MR. SCHWI ND: Agai n, as I st at ed sever al mi nut es

4 ago, we had never hear d t hi s di sput e i n t he t er ms t hat

5 Pl ai nt i f f s have used t hi s morni ng, t al ki ng about a

6 cat egor i cal and whol esal e r ef usal t o compl y wi t h t he Cour t s

7 or der . Obvi ousl y, we di sagr ee wi t h t hat char act er i zat i on

8 whol ehear t edl y. Ther e i s no di sput e as t o t he date r anges,

9 none at al l . We are goi ng f orward wi t h t he date r anges that10 t he Cour t set i n i t s J ul y 16t h or der .

11 But t hat or der and t he di scover y - - t he

12 j ur i sdi ct i onal di scover y t hat we r e i n st ar t s wi t h a

13 f oundat i onal document , t he Cour t s Febr uary 26t h order , whi ch

14 set out t he speci f i c t opi c ar eas, subj ect mat t er s, t hat

15 Pl ai nt i f f s ar e per mi t t ed t o i nqui r e i nt o as par t of t hi s

16 di scover y. And, t her ef or e, t hat f or ms t he basi s t hat we r e17 goi ng f orward on.

18 And we r ecei ved Pl ai nt i f f s document r equest s. We

19 obj ect ed on that basi s, t hat many of t hei r r equest s exceed

20 what t he Cour t set out i n i t s Febr uar y 26t h or der . We made

21 t hi s our f i r st gener al obj ecti on, f or exampl e. We made a

22 number of speci f i c obj ect i ons t o speci f i c document r equest s,

23 and we r ai sed t hese i n our mot i on f or pr ot ecti ve or der .24 Fur t her mor e, we advi sed t he Cour t and Pl ai nt i f f s - -

25 advi sed t hem out si de of cour t as wel l and we advi sed t hem i n


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1 cour t t hat we ar e r evi ewi ng document s f or r esponsi veness t o

2 t he Cour t s or der , t o t he t opi cs t hat t he Cour t has al l owed3 di scover y. And Pl ai nt i f f s , i n our vi ew, have used t hese

4 document r equest s t o expand what t he Cour t has al l owed. And

5 we - - i f Pl ai nt i f f s f eel l i ke thi s i s the subj ect of a mot i on

6 t o compel , t o t r y to get somet hi ng t hat we bel i eve t hey r e

7 not ent i t l ed t o, t hen so be i t . We wi l l respond t o t hat i n

8 due cour se.

9 But we not e t hat t he Cour t di d, at t he cl ose of i t s10 J ul y 16t h or der , set out date r anges f or t he Gover nment

11 document sear ches t hat seem t o at l east i ncorporat e what we

12 pr ovi ded t o t he Cour t - -

13 THE COURT: I t was a compromi se. Ther e was t he

14 chart - -

15 MR. SCHWI ND: The char t , r i ght .

16 THE COURT: - - t hat you had and i t i ncor por at ed17 some of what you had and i t pushed out some ear l i er dat es f or

18 t he Pl ai nt i f f and maybe short ened some of t he per i ods, as I

19 recal l .

20 MR. SCHWI ND: Ri ght , Your Honor . I don t want t o

21 pr esume what t he Cour t was t r yi ng t o do or what was behi nd

22 t he Cour t s r ul i ng, but we di d pr ovi de a char t and t he Cour t

23 seemed t o l ook at t he topi cs we had pr esent ed i n t he char t24 and t hen t ake t hose date r anges and t hen expand t hose date

25 ranges, at l east two of them - -


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1 THE COURT: J ust so t he r ecor d i s cl ear , you ar e

2 r ef er r i ng t o document 66, t he char t , bei ng t hat whi ch you3 capt i oned - - or whi ch i s capt i oned, t he Gover nment s pr oposed

4 scope of di scovery?

5 MR. SCHWI ND: Yes, Your Honor .

6 THE COURT: Okay, t hank you.

7 MR. SCHWI ND: And, so, t hat s what we wer e goi ng

8 of f , we st i l l ar e goi ng of f . And, agai n, we advi sed

9 Pl ai nt i f f s and t he Cour t as t o how we were r evi ewi ng t hese10 document s f or r esponsi veness. I bel i eve i t was back i n t he

11 J une 4t h st at us conf er ence. Pl ai nt i f f s have never f i l ed a

12 mot i on t o compel . We ve l odged al l t he obj ect i ons. And t hat

13 i s how we r e goi ng f orward.

14 Pl ai nt i f f s, t hi s mor ni ng, br ought up sever al

15 exampl es t hat t hey t hi nk t he Gover nment i s somehow

16 cat egor i cal l y noncompl yi ng wi t h our di scover y obl i gat i ons. I17 j ust want t o respond br i ef l y t o t hese.

18 They br i ng up communi cat i ons between FHFA and

19 Tr easur y r el at i ng t o t hi s i dea of maxi mi zi ng t he r et urn t o

20 t axpayer s. The way we have i nt er pr et ed t he Cour t s or der - -

21 Febr uar y 26t h or der , whi ch al l ows di scover y under t hi s not i on

22 of whet her FHFA was act i ng at t he behest of Tr easur y wi t h

23 r espect t o t he t hi r d amendment - - r emember , t he t hi r d24 amendment i s t he sol e f ocus of Fai r hol me s case.

25 THE COURT: Cor r ect.


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1 MR. SCHWI ND: That - -

2 THE COURT: The net wort h sweep.3 MR. SCHWI ND: Net wor t h sweep. Of cour se, t her e s

4 more t o t he t hi r d amendment t han t he net wort h sweep, but t he

5 net wor t h sweep i s a par t of t hat amendment . That was i n

6 August 2012. The i ni t i al f undi ng agr eement s - - t he f undi ng

7 agr eement s t hat were amended by t he t hi r d amendment t ook

8 pl ace back i n Sept ember 2008, when t he conser vator shi p

9 deci si on was made.10 We have - - even t hough t he Cour t s order i n

11 di scovery f ocuses on the thi r d amendment and whet her FHFA was

12 act i ng at t he behest of Tr easur y, we ar e i nt er pr et i ng t hat so

13 t hat r esponsi ve document s wi l l i ncl ude al l communi cat i ons

14 f r omt he FHFA and Treasur y i n t he rel evant t i me f r ames set

15 out by t he Cour t t hat ar e, i n any way, r el at ed t o the f undi ng

16 agr eement s, t o t he PSPAs. So, we r e goi ng t o i ncl ude t he17 t hi r d amendment , we r e goi ng t o i ncl ude ot her aspect s of t he

18 f undi ng agr eement s as wel l . We r e i nt er pr et i ng t hi s br oadl y.

19 And I ve sai d t hi s i n pr evi ous st at us conf er ences,

20 we r e not her e t o pl ay games, we r e not her e t o t r y t o

21 ni t pi ck t he Cour t s or der and see i f we can i nt er pr et i t t hi s

22 way so we onl y have t o do t hi s. We ar e i nt er pr et i ng each of

23 t hese t opi cs broadl y. However , t her e i s a l i mi t t o how24 broadl y we are wi l l i ng t o go.

25 And wi t h r espect t o t he document r equest s of


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1 Pl ai nt i f f s wher e t hey go beyond t hat , f or exampl e, when t hey

2 st ar t t al ki ng about we want communi cat i on wi t h Fanni e s and3 Freddi e s boar ds, we want pr et t y much anythi ng - - I mean,

4 agai n, we ve i t emi zed t hese i n our mot i on f or pr ot ecti ve

5 or der , t he ar eas wher e we t hi nk t hat s t he case. We do not .

6 We cont i nue t o st i ck t o t hose obj ecti ons, and per haps t hi s i s

7 t he subj ect of a mot i on t o compel .

8 I wi l l say, t hough, t hat many of t hese i t ems may be

9 subj ect t o negot i at i on bet ween t he par t i es. I mean, per haps10 i f t hey know exact l y - - t o t he ext ent we can t al k about

11 t hese subj ects, perhaps we can sol ve - - r esol ve some of

12 t hese i ssues and t hey won t be par t of t he - - par t of a

13 mot i on and - -

14 THE COURT: Wel l , as we al l know, t hat s what t he

15 r ul es requi r e. So, I m sur e you wi l l hear f r om Mr . Cooper - -

16 i f you re not on hi s speed di al al ready, I m sure you wi l l be17 - - t o see i f you can negot i at e somet hi ng out . And i f you r e

18 abl e t o do t hat , t hen I congr at ul at e you, godspeed, and i f

19 you can t , t hen I wi l l be pr epar ed t o r ul e af t er I r ecei ve

20 your br i ef s.

21 MR. SCHWI ND: Yes, Your Honor . And I do want t o

22 t ouch on t hat t he Cour t ment i oned t he or der t hat s goi ng t o

23 come out r equi r i ng t he par t i es to i dent i f y t he i ssues that24 ar e goi ng t o be r ai sed at t he st at us conf er ence, we r e

25 absol utel y f i ne wi th that .


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1 THE COURT: Oh, sur e. And I di dn t mean t hat i n

2 any way as a cr i t i ci smof ei t her par t y.3 MR. SCHWI ND: Ri ght , I under st and, Your Honor .

4 We d onl y ask t hat i f i t coul d be l i mi t ed t o t hat as opposed

5 t o t he part i es posi t i ons. We ve seen ot her cases, i n

6 par t i cul ar AI G, where a stat us repor t t hat r equi r es the

7 par t i es t o l ay out t hei r pos i t i on - - pos i t i ons t urns i nt o a

8 ver y di f f i cul t pr ocess f or t he par t i es t o send t he j oi nt

9 st atus r eport back and f ort h and, oh, we need t o be - - now10 t hey ve sai d t hi s, we need t o comment on t hi s, and t he j oi nt

11 st at us r epor t i t sel f t ur ns i nt o a ver y l engt hy document .

12 THE COURT: Wel l , l et me ask you t hi s, what i f I

13 r equi r e t hat t he par t i es submi t separ at e st at us r epor t s t o

14 t he Cour t , and t hen you can i dent i f y t opi cs, and i f you want

15 t o f l esh out t he t opi cs mor e, i t wi l l be up t o t he par t y. I f

16 Pl ai nt i f f want s to pr ovi de mor e or l ess i nf or mat i on t han t he17 Gover nment , t hen f i ne. Then so be i t .

18 MR. SCHWI ND: We can do t hat , Your Honor , but our

19 pr ef er ence i s t hat i f t her e i s an i ssue t hat s goi ng t o

20 resol ve - - t hat s goi ng t o requi re resol ut i on, i t ought t o be

21 t he f ocus of a mot i on, one way or anot her .

22 THE COURT: Wi t hout quest i on, wi t hout quest i on.

23 MR. SCHWI ND: So, t o t he extent t hat we d have t o24 essent i al l y wr i t e up t he whol e mot i on and r espond t o t hei r

25 posi t i on - -


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1 THE COURT: Oh, no, no, no, I woul dn t want i t t o

2 be t hat i nvol ved.3 MR. SCHWI ND: - - i n t he stat us repor t - -

4 THE COURT: I j ust t hought r at her t han cer t ai n

5 concept s bei ng - - bei ng bul l et - poi nt ed i n t he stat us report ,

6 i f you can j ust gi ve me mor e of a f l avor , you know. I mean,

7 t her e s a - -

8 MR. SCHWI ND: We d say, Your Honor , a summar y of

9 t he i ssue per haps, but not - - we j ust don t - -10 THE COURT: No, no, no, I don t want you t o - - you

11 know, I don t want ci t at i ons. I m not l ooki ng f or somet hi ng

12 l i ke t hat . I j ust want mor e t han t o say we r e goi ng t o t al k

13 about di scover y. J ust gi ve me a - - l et me know t hat t her e s

14 a di sput e, you know, i t has t o do wi t h di scovery r equest s or

15 what ever . J ust gi ve me - - r at her t han f l yi ng bl i nd, I d l i ke

16 t o know what I m goi ng t o see.17 MR. SCHWI ND: Under st ood, Your Honor .

18 THE COURT: Okay. So, I t hi nk we r e on t he same

19 page. You know, I don t want some 12- page document , or

20 heaven f or bi d, mor e, I mean, i f i n t wo pages you can j ust - -

21 you know, and t hat i ncl udes t he capt i on and t he si gnat ur e

22 page. I f you can j ust do a bul l et - poi nt or a nut shel l of

23 what you re goi ng t o send me, l i ke I sai d, I j ust want t o24 know mor e t han t her e s a di scover y di sput e. Gi ve me a l i t t l e

25 bi t of a f l avor .


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1 MR. SCHWI ND: Yes, Your Honor . We are more t han

2 pr epar ed t o do - -3 THE COURT: You al l ar e smar t , you can do t hi s, I

4 know.

5 MR. SCHWI ND: We l l see, Your Honor .

6 THE COURT: I have mor e conf i dence i n you. Wel l ,

7 you know, how about a - - you know, I say t hi s r eal l y mor e

8 t ongue- i n- cheek, but j ust know, as a gui di ng pr i nci pl e, you

9 know, I m not l ooki ng f or more t han a sent ence or t wo on each10 t opi c. Can t hat be our gui de? How about t hat ? Does t hat

11 sound reasonabl e?

12 MR. SCHWI ND: Yes, Your Honor .

13 THE COURT: Okay, good. And no back and f or t h.

14 You can - - was i t easi er t o submi t separ at e r epor t s or do you

15 want i t t o be a j oi nt r epor t ? Do you have a wor l d vi ew on

16 t hat ? Do you want to - -17 MR. SCHWI ND: We don t - - wel l , we need t o know - -

18 or I guess we d l i ke t o know, f or exampl e, f r om Pl ai nt i f f s

19 what t hey i nt end t o br i ng t o t he Cour t s at t ent i on. We

20 don t know. We can t r ead t hei r mi nds. So, we have t o have

21 some way to know t hat t o at l east put a qui ck, you know,

22 r esponse - -

23 THE COURT: Okay. And t hat s f ai r . Because not t o24 put t he burden on Pl ai nt i f f , but s i nce i t i s Pl ai nt i f f who i s

25 seeki ng - - i t s not as t hough t he Gover nment i s seeki ng


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1 di scovery f rom t he Pl ai nt i f f s . Why - - we l l make i t a j oi nt

2 r epor t unl ess - - I l l l et Mr . Cooper addr ess t hat when he3 speaks af t er you concl ude - - unl ess t her e s some over ar chi ng

4 pr i nci pl e t hat I m unawar e of t hat he shoul dn t , you know,

5 submi t t he r epor t t o you so you can have your - - t he

6 Gover nment s posi t i on i nser t ed i nt o i t . So, how - - t hat

7 sounds f i ne.

8 MR. SCHWI ND: Thank you, Your Honor .

9 THE COURT: Okay.10 MR. SCHWI ND: Now, wi t h r espect t o t he r eport s,

11 t he el ect r oni cal l y sor t ed i nf or mat i on or ESI t hat counsel

12 rai sed - -

13 THE COURT: Ri ght .

14 MR. SCHWI ND: - - under t he Federal r ul es, t he r ul es

15 of t hi s Cour t , di scover y i s l i mi t ed t o r el evant , non-

16 pr i vi l eged mat t er s. These r epor t s do not f al l i nt o t hat17 category. We re not - -

18 THE COURT: But i t i s commonpl ace. I mean, i n t he

19 cases I ve had, t hat have been i n f r ont of me, t he Government

20 has t ur ned t hat over i n ot her cases.

21 MR. SCHWI ND: Wel l , we can l ook at t hat , Your

22 Honor . We have t ur ned t hem over i n r eachi ng agr eement on

23 sear ch t er ms and cust odi ans. Okay? We di d i t t o t r y t o24 nar r ow t he uni ver se, you know, when i t l ooked l i ke i t was

25 goi ng t o be mi l l i ons of document s or somet hi ng, t hen t o t r y


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1 t o say, okay, what i f we onl y l ook at t hese cust odi ans and

2 t hese sear ch t er ms. And we di d go back and f or t h f or many3 weeks wi t h Pl ai nt i f f s and i t was a ver y usef ul and

4 const r uct i ve exer ci se.

5 At t hi s poi nt , we ve agr eed on cust odi ans and

6 sear ch t er ms. The Cour t has set t he dat e r anges and we r e

7 goi ng f orward wi t h di scovery. At thi s poi nt , Pl ai nt i f f s are

8 ent i t l ed t o essent i al l y document s t hat we pr oduce and t hen a

9 pr i vi l ege l og of document s t hat we cl ai m pr i vi l ege over .10 That i s i t .

11 Thi s i dea of t ur ni ng over t he r epor t s and

12 essent i al l y al l owi ng themt o manage and moni t or and over see

13 how we go about r espondi ng to di scover y i s compl et el y

14 i nappr opr i at e, and t hat s what i s - - t hat s what we bel i eve

15 Pl ai nt i f f s want her e, i s some degr ee of over si ght , and

16 t hey re j us t not ent i t l ed t o i t under t he rul es.17 And i f ot her cases - - maybe t her e have been ot her

18 si t uat i ons wher e par t i es have t ur ned t hat t ype of i nf or mat i on

19 over . We don t f eel i t s appr opr i at e her e. These r epor t s

20 are somewhat compl i cat ed. We r e t al ki ng about 19 document

21 cust odi ans, 19 per sons at Tr easur y and FHFA whose f i l es, you

22 know, ar e i n pl ay. We have over 50 sear ch t er ms or

23 combi nat i ons of sear ch t er ms. These r epor t s t ur n i nt o24 mul t i pl e pages.

25 And what we ar e concer ned wi t h i s t hat Pl ai nt i f f s


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1 ar e goi ng t o rai se mot i ons t o compel based on t hese r epor t s.

2 And t hen we r e goi ng t o have to have essent i al l y exper t s on3 t he syst em, t he sear ch syst em, t o take the st and and expl ai n

4 what t hese r epor t s mean. And i t s goi ng t o t ur n i nt o a

5 si deshow t hat we t hi nk i s ent i r el y unnecessar y and, agai n,

6 Pl ai nt i f f s ar e not ent i t l ed t o i t .

7 THE COURT: Not on my watch.

8 MR. SCHWI ND: Agai n - -

9 THE COURT: That s not goi ng t o happen. But I m10 not - - l ook, you onl y need t o pr oduce that whi ch you r e

11 r equi r ed t o pr oduce under t he r ul es. I f t he Pl ai nt i f f s have

12 a l egal argument t hat t hey bel i eve t hey can make t hat t hey r e

13 ent i t l ed t o i t , t hey l l put i t i n t hei r mot i on. You l l

14 r espond t o i t , t hey l l have t hei r r epl y, and t hen I l l r ul e.

15 That s - - t hose ar e t he r ul es of t he r oad and we l l see what

16 comes.17 MR. SCHWI ND: Thank you, Your Honor . Gener al l y,

18 t hese t ypes of r epor t s ar e consi der ed a f or m of wor k pr oduct

19 - - at t or ney wor k pr oduct . These ar e t hi ngs t hat we, as

20 at t or neys, on our si de, we wi l l di r ect our document

21 cont r actor t o say, okay, pr epar e us a r epor t doi ng t hi s,

22 t hi s, t hi s t o show us t hi s, and t hi s hel ps us make sur e t hat

23 our document pr oduct i on i s compl et e, we haven t l ef t anythi ng24 out , not hi ng s f al l en t hr ough t he cracks. That s what we do

25 on our si de.


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1 Pl ai nt i f f s, whatever they do, i f they - - i f we

2 event ual l y have some di scover y f r om t hem, t hey l l have t hat3 same oppor t uni t y. But f or one si de t o moni t or t he ot her ,

4 agai n, i s not appropr i at e. I t s i nappropr i at e and i t does

5 i nf r i nge on, i n our vi ew, at t orney wor k product.

6 THE COURT: Wel l , t hat s f i ne. I t coul d be i n t he

7 ot her cases that I m f ami l i ar wi t h - - I mean, I do recal l

8 t hat one si de was havi ng di f f i cul t i es per f or mi ng t he ESI

9 search and I t hi nk counsel mi ght have been exchangi ng - - or10 Gover nment counsel was assi st i ng Pl ai nt i f f s counsel i n

11 l ooki ng t hr ough some of t he - - some of t hese r epor t s and even

12 shar i ng t hei r own r epor t s t o show how t hi ngs were done. So,

13 maybe that s why I became f ami l i ar wi t h i t i n ot her cases

14 t hat I ve had. I don t know. But , i n any event , t hose wer e

15 ot her cases.

16 I t mi ght be evi dence t hat t he J ust i ce Depar t ment17 has done i t on occasi on. I t doesn t mean t hat t hey r e

18 r equi r ed t o do i t i f t he l aw - - i f t he l aw - - i f t here s no

19 speci f i c st at ut e or r ul e t hat r equi r es t he J ust i ce Depar t ment

20 t o do i t . So, agai n, I don t have t o make t hat deci s i on

21 t oday. You al l wi l l - - Pl ai nt i f f wi l l det er mi ne i f i t s t he

22 proper topi c of a mot i on. I f i t i s, they l l f i l e i t and you

23 al l wi l l r espond.24 MR. SCHWI ND: Yes, Your Honor . Last l y, counsel

25 r ai sed t he i ssue of t he di scover y schedul e. Now, t he Cour t


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1 di d, i n i t s - - I bel i eve one of i t s J ul y - - i t s t he ot her

2 J ul y 16t h or der - - di r ect t he par t i es to once t hey had3 essent i al l y f l eshed out t he scope of di scover y now af t er t he

4 Cour t has i ssued i t s order - -

5 THE COURT: Ri ght .

6 MR. SCHWI ND: - - t o r epl y t o t he Cour t wi t h an

7 updat ed schedul e. So, I t hi nk t hat obl i gat i on i s al ready on

8 us. I don t t hi nk t he Cour t has t o - -

9 THE COURT: I t i s. But what I m goi ng t o do i s10 gi ve you a coupl e weeks t o j ust gi ve me a dat e. We can

11 revi s i t i t . I j ust l i ke havi ng dat es . I l i ke havi ng end

12 dat es. I m happy t o r evi si t t hem, but i t s a good

13 housekeepi ng t ool . I f you have an end date f or somethi ng,

14 somet hi ng has t o occur , t he dat e ei t her enl ar ges or t he

15 deadl i ne i s met . So, i t s j ust a housekeepi ng t ool t hat I

16 cl eave t o.17 MR. SCHWI ND: Yes, Your Honor . And we - - agai n, we

18 have been wor ki ng const r uct i vel y wi t h Pl ai nt i f f s on get t i ng

19 t hei r - - t o be f ai r , we di d j ust sever al days ago pr ovi de

20 Pl ai nt i f f s wi t h our est i mat e of f our mont hs. We haven t

21 got t en back - - and, agai n, I m not t ry i ng t o say t hi s on

22 Pl ai nt i f f s . We haven t got t en back f rom Pl ai nt i f f s as f ar as

23 t hei r est i mat e t hen, what addi t i onal di scover y they need24 af t er document pr oduct i on i s compl et e.

25 THE COURT: Ri ght . Wel l , bel i eve me, I - - t he onl y


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1 reason I rai se i t i s because I cons i dered i t - - wel l , I don t

2 want t o say a f ai l i ng, but I j ust don t have - - am not3 comf or t abl e not havi ng deadl i nes. They r e my saf et y net .

4 You know, t hey r e my Schr oeder s bl anket . So, I j ust need t o

5 have - - or Li nus bl anket , I guess i t was. But I need t hat .

6 I t s how I keep t r ack - - i t s one of my case management

7 t ool s, and case management i s near and dear t o ever y j udge s

8 hear t .

9 So, agai n, even - - I wi l l even not e, t o i ncrease10 ever yone s comf or t l evel , t hat i t s - - t hat t he dat e i s

11 subj ect t o bei ng modi f i ed. I wi l l do so, I assur e you, wi t h

12 al acr i t y. Happi l y, I wi l l change i t . We can - - you know,

13 once you r espond t o Pl ai nt i f f s and i f you say i t s goi ng t o

14 be anot her f our mont hs and t he Pl ai nt i f f s need si x addi t i onal

15 mont hs, j ust pi ck a date and gi ve i t t o me j ust so t hat we

16 have somet hi ng of r ecor d.17 MR. SCHWI ND: Thank you, Your Honor .

18 THE COURT: Thank you. I m sorr y t hat I cl eave t o

19 t hose dat es, but I do.

20 MR. SCHWI ND: No, Your Honor , most cases I ve been

21 i n, we ve al ways had some di scover y cut of f dat e, what ever t he

22 Court want s to cal l i t out t here, t hat t he part i es are

23 wor ki ng t owar ds, and i f i t needs t o be adj ust ed, t he par t i es24 can t hen come back t o t he Cour t .

25 I j ust do want t o gi ve t he Cour t some sense of


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1 comf or t t hat di scover y, t hough, i s movi ng, t hat we r e not

2 j us t s i t t i ng on our hands here.3 THE COURT: Oh, I know you - - I mean, and I can t

4 wai t t o hear , but j ust so you know, you al l ar e t he

5 consummat e pr of essi onal s. So, I - - you know, but pl ease t el l

6 me.

7 MR. SCHWI ND: Wel l , we have made t he - - our

8 i ni t i al document pr oduct i on t o Pl ai nt i f f s. Of cour se, t hey

9 al r eady have, f r om some t i me ago, t he admi ni st r at i ve r ecor ds10 f r om t he Di st r i ct Cour t cases f i l ed by bot h Tr easur y and

11 FHFA. We r e not t aki ng credi t f or t hat ; we r e j ust sayi ng

12 t hat t hey have i t .

13 The Pl ai nt i f f s, i n t hi s case, have made document

14 r equest s di r ect l y t o t he GSEs, di r ect l y t o Fanni e Mae and

15 Freddi e Mac. Bot h of t hose ent i t i es have r esponded di r ect l y

16 wi t h document s t o Pl ai nt i f f s. We expect t hat one of t he GSEs17 i s goi ng t o make yet anot her document pr oduct i on t hi s week.

18 Agai n, we r e not t aki ng credi t f or t hat , j ust poi nt i ng i t out

19 t hat Pl ai nt i f f s are get t i ng document s. Many of t he document s

20 di r ect l y f r om t he GSEs, f or exampl e, ar e document s t hat

21 Pl ai nt i f f s have r equested f or m t he Gover nment , i n part i cul ar

22 boar d mi nut es - - mi nut es of t he boar ds of di r ectors f or

23 Fanni e Mae and Freddi e Mac t hat ar e i n t he possessi on of t he24 Gover nment , al so f i nanci al pr oj ecti ons f r om t he GSEs

25 t hemsel ves.


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1 We i nt end t o make our next document pr oduct i on next

2 week. We al so i nt end t o pr oduce t he f i r st pr i vi l ege l og3 per haps as ear l y as next week as wel l . We haven t done one

4 t o dat e. We r e a l i t t l e unsur e about how exact l y - - how soon

5 we can get t hat out t he door , but we do at l east expect as

6 ear l y as next week.

7 We do want t o not e t hat - - and t hi s i s what we

8 r epor t ed at a pr evi ous st at us conf erence, you know, and t hi s

9 mor ni ng, we di d agr ee wi t h Pl ai nt i f f s on addi t i onal10 cust odi ans and addi t i onal sear ch t erms. Now, t hose

11 addi t i onal cust odi ans t hat we agr eed t o wi t h Pl ai nt i f f s, i n

12 or der t o resol ve the cust odi an i ssues, so t he Cour t di dn t

13 need t o get i t r esol ved i n f i gur i ng out whi ch wi t nesses

14 needed t o pr oduce document s, t hose addi t i onal cust odi ans, t he

15 smal l number of sear ch t erms and t he expanded dat e r anges

16 est abl i shed by t he Cour t - - we r e not compl ai ni ng; we r e j ust17 sayi ng t hat t hese are f act s - - t hey di d s i gni f i cant l y

18 i ncrease t he vol ume of document s t hat we have now t o r evi ew

19 f or r esponsi veness and pr i vi l ege. So, i t has af f ect ed our

20 est i mat e of t i me.

21 And, so, yes, our best est i mat e r i ght now i s at

22 l east f our mont hs t o compl et e document di scover y. We t hi nk

23 i t s r easonabl e gi ven t he vol ume of document s we have and t he24 abi l i t y - - our abi l i t y t o r evi ew t hose document s. We ar e

25 assi gni ng addi t i onal resources , i . e. , peopl e, to assi s t i n


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1 t hat r evi ew pr ocess. And we ve communi cat ed t hat est i mat e t o

2 Pl ai nt i f f s and we l ook f orward to recei vi ng f rom t hem how3 much mor e addi t i onal - - how much addi t i onal t i me t hey need

4 f or di scover y, and t hen hopef ul l y comi ng t o t he Cour t i n a

5 j oi nt f i l i ng sayi ng her e s what we t hi nk ought t o happen.

6 That s wher e we ar e, Your Honor .

7 THE COURT: Okay. And I m j ust cur i ous, i s i t - -

8 di d I under st and Mr . Cooper corr ect l y that - - and I may have

9 mi sunderst ood - - t hat al l t he document s t hat have been10 pr oduced - - wel l , appr oxi matel y 85 per cent of t hem have been

11 desi gnat ed conf i dent i al , even t hose t hat ar e publ i cl y

12 avai l abl e?

13 MR. SCHWI ND: That s corr ect , Your Honor . I n f act ,

14 t hat s t he - - t hat s what t he par t i es agr eed t o i n t he

15 pr oposed pr otect i ve order and t he pr ot ect i ve order

16 establ i shed by t he Cour t , i s t hat i n or der t o speed17 pr oducti on, we wer en t goi ng t o l ook t hr ough al l t he

18 document s and act ual l y f i gur e out whi ch ones ought t o be

19 conf i dent i al . We wer e j ust goi ng t o desi gnate t hem en masse.

20 THE COURT: And t hen you wer e goi ng t o wi t hdr aw, at

21 some poi nt - -

22 MR. SCHWI ND: And t hen go back.

23 THE COURT: - - t he conf i dent i al desi gnat i on.24 MR. SCHWI ND: Ri ght . We don t t hi nk i t s

25 ent i r el y - -


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1 THE COURT: Okay. I j ust want ed t o make sur e - -

2 MR. SCHWI ND: Ri ght . So, we don t t hi nk t hat3 cr i t i ci sm i s ent i r el y f ai r .

4 THE COURT: Wel l , no, no, my r ecol l ect i on was t hat

5 you wer e goi ng t o desi gnat e a l ar ge vol ume, a l ar ge

6 per cent age of t he document s as conf i dent i al and t hen have t he

7 oppor t uni t y t o go back and r evi ew and t hen wi t hdr aw t hat

8 desi gnat i on at some poi nt . So, I can under st and on t he

9 one - - I under st and. I see bot h si des, t hat Mr . Cooper s10 concer ned t hat t hese document s are publ i cl y avai l abl e, why

11 ar e t hey desi gnat ed as conf i dent i al . But I under st and i t s

12 j ust i n or der t o get t hi ngs t o Pl ai nt i f f s as soon as

13 possi bl e, you r e er r i ng on t he si de of caut i on.

14 MR. SCHWI ND: Cor r ect , Your Honor .

15 THE COURT: Okay, ver y good.

16 MR. SCHWI ND: Thank you.17 THE COURT: Thank you.

18 MR. COOPER: Thank you agai n, Your Honor . I f I may

19 j ust speak qui ckl y t o t hat l ast poi nt . My concer n r eal l y

20 i sn t so much t hat al l of t he pr oduct i on was desi gnat ed as

21 conf i dent i al , i ncl udi ng t he 85 percent of i t t hat was, on i t s

22 f ace, publ i c. I t s real l y t hat onl y 15 percent of t he - - or

23 so, of t he 1, 900 document s that wer e i n t hi s f i r st i ni t i al24 submi ssi on wer e not publ i c, t hat wer e, you know - - I mean,

25 t hat wer e actual l y di scover y mat er i al as opposed t o st uf f i n


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1 t he publ i c domai n t hat we have access t o.

2 THE COURT: Al t hough you have anot her f our - - I m3 assumi ng wi t hi n t he next f our mont hs, you r e goi ng t o be

4 seei ng many mor e document s and, hopef ul l y, t hat wi l l - - I

5 hope t hat wi l l sat i sf y you and I don t mean t hat i n any way

6 cri t i cal of you. You l l see what comes wi t hi n t he next f our

7 mont hs or so, what ever t he t i me f r ame i s and, hopef ul l y, i t

8 wi l l be r esponsi ve t o what Pl ai nt i f f r equest ed - - what

9 Pl ai nt i f f s request ed, and i f not , I know I l l hear f r om you.10 MR. COOPER: Wel l , Your Honor , t he t r ut h i s you r e

11 goi ng to hear f r om us much more qui ckl y t han t hat wi t h

12 r egar ds t o - -

13 THE COURT: Yes, t hat s what I ve assumed.

14 MR. COOPER: Yeah. Because we r eal l y do have a

15 ser i ous di sagr eement i n terms of what t he Cour t has done t hus

16 f ar wi t h r espect t o t he Gover nment s di scover y obl i gat i ons,17 what i t has r ul ed.

18 You know, and j ust t o ki nd of back up a st ep or

19 t wo, i n l i ght of some of counsel s comment s, t he pr ocess t hat

20 t he Cour t est abl i shed, you know, back i n Apr i l wi t h t he case

21 management - - i t s i ni t i al case management or der , made cl ear

22 t hat when t he pr oduci ng par t y had an obj ect i on, we woul d have

23 t o get t oget her ever y seven days and t r y t o wor k i t out .24 Now, t hi s i s st andard stuf f , but i f t he obj ecti ons are not

25 r esol ved by t he end of t hat per i od, t he obj ecti ng per i od


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1 shal l bear t he bur den of movi ng f or a pr ot ect i ve or der no

2 l at er t han seven days af t er t he cl ose of t hat per i od.3 Wel l , t hat s what we went t hr ough. We gave t hem

4 our document r equest s, t hey pr ovi ded t hei r obj ecti ons, as

5 counsel has ment i oned. We - - you know, we r e not sat i sf i ed

6 t hat t hei r obj ecti ons wer e val i d. So, t hey br ought f or war d a

7 pr ot ecti ve or der i n whi ch t hey of f er ed t hose obj ecti ons t o

8 you, Your Honor.

9 As we r ead t he Cour t s or der , i t accept ed, you10 know, much of what t he Gover nment was seeki ng. But i t di dn t

11 agr ee, f or exampl e, t hat t he Government was not r esponsi bl e

12 and was pr ot ect ed f r om pr ovi di ng r esponsi ve document s t o a

13 pat h of our document r equest s, i ncl udi ng, f or exampl e, t he

14 ones I speci f i cal l y ment i oned. You know, counsel di dn t say,

15 we r e goi ng t o pr ovi de r esponsi ve document s t o t hese document

16 r equest s. He di dn t say t hat t o you because he s t ol d us17 he s not goi ng t o do t hat except maybe t o t he extent t hat

18 ot her r equest s t hat he s goi ng t o pr ovi de may have a document

19 t hat woul d overl ap and al so be r esponsi ve t here. But a

20 document t hat i s responsi ve t o t hese speci f i c request s, and

21 t her e ar e about ei ght mor e j ust l i ke t hem, he - - t he

22 Gover nment s posi t i on i s t hey ar e pr ot ected f r om havi ng t o

23 produce t hem.24 And, so, yes, we r e goi ng t o br i ng i t t o you, Your

25 Honor , because t hi s i s a ser i ous questi on, i t i s a ser i ous


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1 questi on i n t erms of whet her or not t hi s j ur i sdi ct i onal

2 di scovery - - and, agai n, as I say, as t he t ranscr i pt wi l l3 show, I don t see how t her e i s an answer t o my poi nt t hat

4 t hat r equest goes t o t he hear t of whet her FHFA i s t he Uni t ed

5 St at es . I real l y don t see how. So, I m goi ng t o have br i ng

6 f or war d a mot i on t o compel t hat r equi r es t he Gover nment t o

7 descri be t o us why t hat i s out si de of what at l east we r ead

8 t he Cour t s most r ecent di scover y or der t o r equi r e.

9 On ESI , Your Honor , we are goi ng t o add t o t hat10 mot i on t o compel , I m af r ai d, our vi ew t hat we ought t o be

11 pr ovi ded wi t h t he ESI . We bel i eve we have - - t hat we r e

12 ent i t l ed t o see t hat .

13 THE COURT: The cover sheet s? I mean, t he - -

14 MR. COOPER: The hi t r epor t s.

15 THE COURT: The hi t r epor t s, t hat s i t , t hat s i t .

16 MR. COOPER: The hi t r epor t s. Because, you know,17 we can t f i nd any suppor t f or t he pr oposi t i on t hat i t s

18 i nappr opr i at e. I t s , agai n, de r i gueur . I t s standard

19 oper at i ng pr ocedur e, I woul d r epr esent t o you, at l east i n

20 our col l ecti ve exper i ence. We can t f i nd a case t hat even

21 suggest s the not i on t hat i t s a wor k pr oduct, pr ot ected

22 i nf ormat i on. Al l i t i s i s here i s t he search t erm we agreed

23 upon, her e s how many responses we got f r om t hi s cust odi an.24 And, yes, make no mi st ake, t her e i s a pur pose and

25 i t i s t o moni t or so t hat bot h si des can have a pr ocess t hat


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1 i s open, t hat i s open and t hat i s not , you know, shr ouded i n

2 secrecy. That s not t he di scover y pr ocess, Your Honor . So,3 yeah, we r e goi ng t o add t hat t o our di scover y poi nt .

4 And, Your Honor , i f I may suggest , we r e goi ng t o

5 br i ng f or war d a mot i on t o compel wi t hi n a week s t i me - - we

6 do thi nk that t hi s i s somethi ng that i s cr i t i cal , i t s

7 t hr eshol d i n nat ur e. Four mont hs f r om now, you know, we hope

8 we l l be done wi t h t hi s, but we hope we l l be done wi t h i t on

9 t he same page i n t er ms of what t hei r r esponsi bi l i t i es ar e, t o10 l ook f or document s and t o pr ovi de r esponsi ve non- pr i vi l eged

11 document s t o us and a l og f or t he ones t hat t hey say ar e

12 pr i vi l eged. So, Your Honor , we r e goi ng t o do t hat wi t hi n a

13 week.

14 I woul d hope t hat t he Gover nment woul d be - - woul d

15 be wi l l i ng t o r espond ver y pr ompt l y. And I woul d suggest a

16 week f or t hei r r esponse.17 THE COURT: I m goi ng t o l et t he Gover nment have

18 t he nor mal t i me under t he r ul es unl ess i t - - i t knows i t can

19 r espond ear l i er . So, I m goi ng t o l et t hem and t hen you wi l l

20 have - -

21 MR. COOPER: Ver y wel l , Your Honor , sur e.

22 THE COURT: And I woul d j ust ask, t oo, t hat you

23 conf er , as requi r ed under t he rul es, t o see i f you can24 negot i at e out some of t he ar eas of di sput e.

25 MR. COOPER: Of cour se.


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1 THE COURT: I wi l l j ust - - and, agai n, I m not i n

2 any way det er mi ni ng somet hi ng i n a vacuum, somet hi ng t hat I3 have - - t he speci f i cs I haven t seen. But t he whol e pur pose

4 of t hi s exer ci se, what s bef or e me now, i s to al l ow t he

5 Pl ai nt i f f s to have t hei r day i n court and f or t hem t o have

6 t he oppor t uni t y t o expl or e whet her or not t he Uni t ed St at es

7 Gover nment , whet her we r e t al ki ng about Tr easur y or whet her

8 i t was - - and I m j ust pul l i ng thi s out of t he ai r - - t he

9 Whi t e House, whoever i t was, whet her t hey di r ect ed t he10 conser vat or shi ps t o t ake cer t ai n act i ons, whet her t hey wer e

11 r eal l y t he gui di ng f or ce and, so - - and, t her ef or e, t hey

12 r eal l y wer e not i ndependent or t hey r eal l y ar e f or - - at

13 l east f or pur poses of t he net wor t h sweep wi t h t he t hi r d

14 amendment , act i ng at t he di r ect i on of t he Uni t ed St at es

15 Government .

16 I f t hey wer e t aki ng - - i f t he conservat ors17 wer e t aki ng t hei r mar chi ng or der s f r om wi t hi n t he Uni t ed

18 St at es Gover nment , r egar dl ess of br anch, whet her you r e

19 t al ki ng about t he execut i ve - - so - - or , you know, I can t

20 i magi ne t hat - - or whet her i t s Congr ess, I j ust don t know,

21 wor ki ng i n conj unct i on wi t h t he Whi t e House or Tr easur y,

22 what ever i t mi ght be, t hen t hat i nf or mat i on has t o br ought

23 f or war d.24 Now, i f t he f act t hat i t woul d be subj ect t o t he

25 pr ot ecti ve or der and i t woul dn t be publ i cl y avai l abl e, you


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1 know, no one can set up a websi t e, cl i ck her e t o f i nd

2 what ever document , no one l eaks i t t o t he pr ess, or t o3 anyone, t hen t hat i nf or mat i on has t o be pr ovi ded t o t he

4 Pl ai nt i f f s because i t s not f ai r f or t he Uni t ed St at es

5 Gover nment t o say to t he Pl ai nt i f f s, you know, Fr eddi e

6 Mac, Fanni e Mae ar e i ndependent , t her e was no exer ci se of

7 cont r ol .

8 And i f t he J ust i ce Depar t ment r ecei ves document s

9 f r om t hese t wo agenci es, t he conservat or s, showi ng i n f act10 t her e was cont r ol , t hat s hi di ng t he - - I mean, I know t hr ee

11 ver y f i ne at t orneys, peopl e of i nt egri t y, but I m j ust

12 sayi ng, i f t hat s what you - - and you pr obabl y haven t seen

13 al l t he document s. But i f you r e - - I don t want

14 i nst r uct i ons t o be gi ven t o cl i ent s or t o t hese ent i t i es t hat

15 t hey don t have t o pr oduce cer t ai n document s i f , i n f act ,

16 i t s goi ng t o answer t he quest i on, wer e t hese ent i t i es par t17 of t he Uni t ed St at es Gover nment . Wer e t hey cont r ol l ed by

18 Tr easur y? I f t hat s what t he documents show, I r eal i ze I m

19 pr eachi ng t o t he choi r sayi ng t hat , you have t o t ur n i t over

20 t o Pl ai nt i f f s.

21 So, i f you re i nvoki ng pr i vi l ege t o bl ock the

22 Pl ai nt i f f s ent r yway i nt o t he cour t house door , you can t do

23 i t . I know you know t hat , but you can go back and t el l your24 cl i ent s I sai d so, and t hat mi ght ei t her make t hei r l i f e

25 easi er or mor e di f f i cul t or per haps bot h, dependi ng upon


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1 whi ch i ssue you re di scussi ng.

2 But , hopef ul l y, t hat wi l l hel p your di scussi ons3 wi t h t he Pl ai nt i f f s - - excuse me, wi t h t he Uni t ed St at es, and

4 i t - - hopef ul l y, t hat hel ps. I f i t doesn t , I l l see

5 mot i ons, and t hat s f i ne.

6 MR. COOPER: Ver y wel l , Your Honor . Thank you.

7 THE COURT: Ver y good. I s t her e anyt hi ng el se f r om

8 t he Uni t ed St at es?

9 MR. SCHWI ND: No, Your Honor . We l l awai t10 Pl ai nt i f f s mot i on and r espond at t hat t i me.

11 THE COURT: Ver y good. And I assume t her e s no

12 r eason - - I mean, I al most f eel si l l y sayi ng i t , but si nce

13 Mr . Cooper r ai sed i t , woul d you be abl e to answer i n a

14 shor t er t i me per i od? I r eal i ze you don t know what you r e

15 goi ng t o see.

16 MR. SCHWI ND: Ri ght . Your Honor , r i ght now, I17 t hi nk we r e not abl e t o commi t t o a shor t er t i me per i od.

18 THE COURT: Okay.

19 MR. SCHWI ND: Pr i or t o seei ng what t hey f i l e.

20 THE COURT: Al l r i ght , ver y good. Agai n, I

21 under st and your r especti ve posi t i ons. Pl ease see i f you can

22 negot i at e somet hi ng out t o nar r ow t he i ssues. I wi sh you

23 godspeed on t hat . I f you can t , I l ook f or war d t o r eadi ng24 what you pr esent t o me. Thank you.

25 MR. COOPER: Thank you, Your Honor .


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1 MR. SCHWI ND: Thank you, Your Honor .

2 ( Wher eupon, at 12: 03 p. m. , t he hear i ng was3 adj our ned. )

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1 CERTI FI CATE OF TRANSCRI BER

23 I , El i zabeth M. Far r el l , cour t - approved

4 t ranscr i ber , cert i f y t hat t he f oregoi ng i s a corr ect

5 t ranscr i pt f rom t he of f i ci al el ect roni c sound recordi ng of

6 t he pr oceedi ngs i n t he above- t i t l ed mat t er .

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9 DATE: 8/ 14/ 14 S/ El i zabet h M. Far r el l10 ELI ZABETH M. FARRELL, CERT

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81314 Transcript 717fair

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