VICTORIA · 2016-03-29 · VICTORIA PARLIAMENTARY'i)EBATES (HANSARD) FORTY-FIFTH PARLIAMENT FIRST...

VICTORIA

PARLIAMENTARY'i)EBATES

(HANSARD)

FORTY-FIFTH PARLIAMENT

FIRST SESSION (1970-71)

1Jj~!li!llntiu~ (!tunu!il nub 14~!lialntiu~ A!l!l~mhl!J

VOL. CCXCIX.

[From June 17, 1970, to October 28, 1970j

to MELBOURNE: C. H. RIXON, GOVERNMENT PRINTER,

wlrr ~ntttrttnr His Excellency Major-General SIR ROHAN DELACOMBE, K.e.M.G., K.e.V.O ..

K.B.E., C.B., D.S.O., K.ST.J.

wlJt mituttttUttt-~ntttrttnr Lieutenant-General the Honorable SIR EDMUND FRANCIS HERRING, K.e.M.G.,

K.B.E., D.S.O., M.e., E.D.

wlJt 1Itutstry (At the Opening of the Session.)

Premier and Treasurer

Chief Secretary

Minister of Agriculture Minister for Local Government Attorney-General, and Minister of Immigration

~The Hon. Sir Henry Bolte, K.C.M.G.,

.. M.P. " Sir Arthur Rylah, K.B.E.,

· . e.M.G., B.D., M.P. G. L. Chandler, e.M.G.,

.. M.L.e.

Minister of Education Minister of Housing, Minister of Forests, and Minister}

for Aboriginal Affairs .. . . . . . . Minister for Fuel and Power, and Minister of Mines .. Minister of Health Minister of Transport Minister of State Development, and Minister for Tourism Minister of Lands, Minister of Soldier Settlement, and~

Minister for Conservation . . . . . . Minister of Labour and Industry, and Assistant Minister

of Education .. . . . . . . . .

R. J. Hamer, E.D., M.L.C. G. O. Reid, M.P. L. H. S. Thompson, M.P. E. R. Meagher, M.B.B.,

E.D., M.P. J. e. M. Balfour, M.P. J. F. Rossiter, M.P. V. F. Wilcox, M.P. V. O. Dickie, M.L.C.

W. A. Borthwick, M.P.

J. A. Rafferty, M.P. Minister of Public Works .. Murray Byrne, M.L.e. Minister of Water Supply ., I. W. Smith, M.P.

Parliamentary Secretary of the Cabinet: R. C. Dunstan, Esquire, D.S.O., M.P.

(From December 15, 1970.) Premier and Treasurer

Chief Secretary

Minister of Agriculture

· . 1 The Hon. Sir Henry Bolte, K.C.M.G., M.P.

.. "Sir Arthur Rylah, K.B.E., e.M.G., E.D., M.P.

· . G. L. Chandler, C.M.G., M.L.C.

Minister for Local Government Attorney-General .. Minister of Education Minister of Housing, Minister of Forests, and Minister}

for Aboriginal Affairs .. . . . . Minister for Fuel and Power, and Minister of Mines .. Minister of Health Minister of Transport . . . . . . Minister of State Development, Minister for Tourism'l

and Minister of Immigration . . . . . . Minister of Lands, Minister of Soldier Settlement, and

Minister for Conservation . . . . . . Minister of Labour and Industry, and Assistant Minister

of Education .. . . . . . . . . Minister of Public Works Minister of Water Supply

Minister without Portfolio

R. J. Hamer, B.D., M.L.e. G. O. Reid, M.P. L. H. S. Thompson, M.P. E. R. Meagher, M.B.B.,

E.D., M.P. J. e. M. Balfour, M.P. J. F. Rossiter, M.P. V. F. Wilcox, M.P. V. O. Dickie, M.L.C.


J. A. Rafferty, M.P.

Murray Byrne, M.L.e. I. W. Smith, M.P. R. C. Dunstan, D.S.O.,

M.P.

Parliamentary Secretary of the Cabinet: A. H. Scanlan, Esquire, M.P.

W4t :!I iuintty (From December 22, 1970.)

Premier and Treasurer {The Hon. Sir Henry Bolte, K.e.M.G.,

.. M.P.

Chief Secretary {Sir Arthur Rylah, K.B.E.,

.. e.M.G., B.D., M.P.


Minister for Local Government Attorney-General

{G. L. Chandler, C.M.G.,

.. M.L.e.

Minister of Education Minister of Housing, Minister of Forests, and Minister}

for Aboriginal Affairs .. . . . . Minister for Fuel and Power, and Minister of Mines Minister of Health Minister of Transport Minister of State Development, Minister for Tourism,}

and Minister of Immigration . . . . Minister of Lands, Minister of Soldier Settlement, and}

Minister for Conservation . . . . . . Minister of Labour and Industry, and Assistant Minister}

of Education .. . . . . . . . . Minister of Public Works .. Minister for Social Welfare

Minister of Water Supply .. .. {

R. J. Hamer, E.D., M.L.C. G. O. Reid, M.P. L. H. S. Thompson, M.P. E. R. Meagher, M.B.E.,

E.D., M.P. J. e. M. Balfour, M.P. J. F. Rossiter, M.P. V. F. Wilcox, M.P.

V. O. Dickie, M.L.C.



Murray Byrne, M.l.e. I. W. Smith, M.P. R. C. Dunstan, D.S.O.,

M.P.


(From March 9, 1971.)

Premier and Treasurer {The Hon. Sir Henry Boite, K.C.M.G.,

.. M.P. Chief Secretary, and Attorney-General


Minister for Local Government Minister of Education Minister of Housing, Minister of Forests, and Minister}

for Aboriginal Affairs .. . . Minister for Fuel and Power, and Minister of Mines Minister of Health Minister of Transport Minister of State Development, Minister for Tourism,}




Minister of Water Supply .. .. {

G. O. Reid, M.P. G. L. Chandler, C.M.G.,

M.L.e. R. J. Hamer, B.D., M.L.e. L. H. S. Thompson, M.P. E. R. Meagher, M.B.E.,

E.D., M.P. J. e. M. Balfour, M.P. J. F. Rossiter, M.P. V. F. Wilcox, M.P.

V. O. Dickie, M.L.e.



Murray Byrne, M.L.e. I. W. Smith, M.P . R. e. Dunstan, D.S.O.,

M.P.


WlJt ministry (From March 23, 1971.)

Premier and Treasurer {The Hon. Sir Henry Bolte, K.C.M.G.

.. M.P. Chief Secretary, and Attorney-General

Minister of Agriculture .. { Minister for Local Government Minister of Education Minister of Housing, Minister of Forests, and Minister}

for Aboriginal Affairs .. . . Minister for Fuel and Power, and Minister of Mines Minister of Health Minister of Transport Minister of State Development, Minister for Tourism,}




Minister of Water Supply

Minister without Portfolio

.. {

G. O. Reid, Q.C., M.P . G. L. Chandler, C.M.G"

M.L.C. R. J. Hamer, E.D. L. H. S. Thompson, M.P. E. R. Meagher, M.B.E.,

E.D., M.P. J. C. M. Balfour, M.P. J. F. Rossiter, M.P. V. F. Wilcox, M.P.




Murray Byrne, M.L.C. I. W. Smith, M.P. R. C. Dunstan, D.S.O.,

M.P. A. J. Hunt, M .L.C.


(From April 27, 1971.)

Premier and Treasurer

Chief Secretary


Attorney-General .. Minister of Education

{The Hon. Sir He. nry Bolte, K.C.M.G.,

.. M.P.

.. {

Minister of Housing, Minister of Forests, and Minister} for Aboriginal Affairs .. . .

Minister for Fuel and Power, and Minister of Mines Minister of Health Minister of Transport Minister for State Development, Minister for Tourism,}

and Minister of Immigration .... Minister of Lands, Minister of Soldier Settlement, and}



Minister of Water Supply ..

Minister for Local Government

.. {

R. J. Hamer, E.D., M.P . G. L. Chandler, C.M.G.,

M.L.C. G. O. Reid, Q.C., M.P. L. H. S. Thompson, M.P. E. R. Meagher, M.B.E.,

E.D., M.P. J. C. M. Balfour, M.P. J. F. Rossiter, M.P. V. F. Wilcox, M.P.




Murray Byrne, M.L.C. 1. W. Smith, M.P . R. C. Dunstan, D.S.O.,

M.P. A. J. Hunt, M.L.C.


mtat of iltmhtrs of 'ttrlittmtut FORTY-FIFTH PARLIAMENT-FIRST SESSION (1970-71)

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL [BEFORE THE PERIODICAL ELECTIONS HELD ON MAY 30. 1970.]

MEMBER

Bradbury, A. K. Byrne, Murray Campbell, W. M. Cathie, I. R. Chandler, G. L., C.M.G. Clarke, M. A. Dickie, V. O. Dunn, B. P ... Elliot, D. G. Fry, W. G ... Galbally, J. W., Q.c. Garrett, R. W., A.F.C.,

A.E.A. Gleeson, S. E. Granter, F. J. Grimwade, F. S. Gross, K. S ... Hamer, R. J., E.D.

PROVINCE

North-Eastern Ballaarat East Yarra South-Eastern Boronia Northern Ballaarat North-Western Melbourne Higinbotham Melbourne North Southern

South-Western Bendigo Bendigo Western East Yarra

MEMBER

Hamilton, H. M., E.D ... Hewson, H. A. Houghton, W. V. Hunt, A. J. Knight, A. W. McDonald, S. R. Mansell, A. R. May, R. W. Merrifield, Samuel Mitchell, C. A. Nicol, G. J. O'Connell, G. J. Swinburne, I. A. Thorn, G. W ...

*Thompson, L. H. S. Todd, Archibald Tripovich, J. M. Walton, J. M. ..

• Resigned, May 5, 1970.

PRESIDENT: THE HON. R. W. GARRETT, A.F.C., A.E.A.

CHAIRMAN OF COMMITIEES: THE HON. G. J. NICOL.

PROVINCE

Higinbotham Gippsland Templestowe South-Eastern Melbourne West Northern North-Western Gippsland Doutta Galla Western Monash Melbourne North-Eastern South-Western Monash Melbourne West Doutta Galla Melbourne North

TEMPORARY CHAIRMEN OF COMMITIEES: THE HONORABLES A. K. BRADBURY, K. S. GROSS, G. W. TROM, AND ARCHIBALD TODD.

[AFTER THE PERIODICAL ELECTIONS HELD ON MAY 30, 1970.]

MEMBER PROVINCE MEMBER

Bradbury, A. K. Byrne, Murray Campbell, W. M. Chandler, G. L., C.M.G. Clarke, M. A. Dickie, V. O. Dunn, B. P. Eddy, R. J ... Elliot, D. G. Fry, W. G... .. Galbally, J. W., Q.c. .. Garrett, R. W., A.F.C.,

A.E.A. Gleeson, S. E. Granter, F. J. Grimwade, F. S. Gross, K. S. §Hamer, R. J., B.D. Hamilton, H. M., E.D.

North-Eastern Ballaarat East Yarra Boronia Northern Ballaarat North-Western Doutta Galla Melbourne Higinbotham Melbourne North Templestowe

South-Western Bendigo Bendigo Western East Yarra Higinbotham

Hauser, V. T. ., IIHider, C. A. M. Houghton, W. V. Hunt, A. J. Jenkins, O. G. Kent, D. E. Knight, A. W. McDonald, S. R. Mansell, A. R. May, R. W. Mitchell, C. A. Nicol, G. J. O'Connell, G. J.

tStorey, Haddon Swinburne, I. A.

tThomas, H. A. Tripovich, J. M. Walton, J. M. .. Ward, H. R.

§ Resigned, March 17, 1971. II Elected, June 20, 1970. t Elected, April 17, 1971.

PROVINCE

Boronia Monash Templestowe South-Eastern South-Western Gippsland Melbourne West Northern North-Western Gippsland Western Monash Melbourne East Yarra North-Eastern Melbourne West Doutta Galla Melbourne North South-Eastern

t Elected, October 24, 1970. At the periodical elections held on May 30, 1970, Mr. R. W. Walsh was declared elected as a representative of Melbourne West Province. On September 4, 1970, the Full Court of the Supreme Court of Victoria, sitting as a Court of Disputed Returns, declared that Mr. Walsh was incapable of being elected a member of the Legislative Council, that the election was void, and that a vacancy existed. At the subsequent by-election, the Hon. H. A. Thomas was elected.

PREsIDENT: THE HON. R. W. GARRETT, A.F.C., A.E.A.

CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES: THE HON. G. J. NICOL.

TEMPORARY CHAIRMEN OF COMMITTEES: THE HONORABLES A. K. BRADBURY, W. G. FRY, K. S. GROSS, ANO A. W. KNIGHT.

MEMBER

Amos, D. G. I. Balfour, J. C. M. Billing, N. A. W., K.ST.J. Birrell, H. W. Bolte, Sir Henry,

K.C.M.G. Bornstein, D. L. F. Borthwick, W. A. Broad, H. G. Burgin, C. W. Christie; Vernon Clarey, R. A. Crellin, M. L. Curnow, E. J. Dixon, B. J. Doube, V. J. Doyle, J. J ... Dunstan, R. c., D.S.O. Edmunds, C. T. Evans, A. T. Evans, B. J. Fell, R. W ... Floyd, W. L. Fordham, R. C. Ginifer, J. J. Goble, Mrs. D. A. tHamer, R. J., E.D. Hayes, G. P. Holding, A. C. Jona, Walter .. Kirkwood, C. W. D. Lewis, E. W ... Lewis, W. J. Lind, A. A. C. Lovegrove, Denis Loxton, S. J. E. McCabe, J. E. MacDonald, J. D. McDonald, R. S. L.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

DISTRICT

Morwell Narracan Heatherton Geelong Hampden

Brunswick East Monbulk Swan Hill Polwarth Ivanhoe Melbourne Sandringham Kara Kara St. Kilda Albert Park Gisborne Dromana Moonee Ponds Ballaarat North Gippsland East Greensborough Williamstown Footscray Deer Park Mitcham Kew Scoresby Richmond Hawthorn Preston Dundas Portland Dandenong Sunshine Prahran Lowan Glen Iris Rodney

MEMBER

McLaren, T. F., O.B.E. Maclellan, R. R. C.

DISTRICT

Bennettswood Gippsland West Ringwood Manson, J. W.

Meagher, E. R., M.B.E., Frankston E.D.

Mitchell, T. W. Moss, G. C. Mutton, J. P. .. Rafferty, J. A. Reese, W. F. L. Reid, G. 0., Q. C. Ross-Edwards, Peter Rossiter, J. F. .,

*Rylah, Sir Arthur, K.B.E., C.M.G., E.D.

Scanlan, A. H. Shilton, L. V. ., Simmonds, J: L. Smith, A. V. Smith, I. W. Stephen, W. F. Stokes, R. N. ., Suggett, R. H. Tanner, Sir Edgar, C.B.E.,

E.D. Taylor, A. W., E.D. Taylor, J. A. Templeton, T. W. Thompson, L. H. S. Trethewey, R. H. Trewin, T. C .. , Trezise, N. B .. , Turnbull, Campbell Wheeler, K. H. Whiting, M. S. Wilcox, V. F. Wilkes, F. N. Wilton, J. T. Wiltshire, R. J ...

Benambra Murray Valley Coburg Glenhuntly Moorabbin Box Hill Shepparton Brighton· Kew

Oakleigh Midlands Reservoir Bellarine Warrnambool Ballaarat South Evelyn Bentleigh Caulfield

Balwyn Gippsland South Mentone Malvern Bendigo Benalla Geelong North Brunswick West Essendon Mildura Camberwell Northcote Broadmeadows Syndal

t Elected, April 17, 1971. • Resigned, March 5, 1971.

SPEAKER: THE HON. VERNON CHRISTIE.

CHAIRMAN OF COMMITIEES: SIR EDGAR TANNER, C.B.E., E.D.

TEMPORARY CHAIRMEN OF COMMITIEES: MR. CLAREY, MR. A. T. EVANS, MR. GINIFER, MR. JONA, MR. LIND, MR. R. S. L. McDONALD, MR. MITCHELL, MR. STOKES, MR. SUGGETT, MR. A. W. TAYLOR, MR. TREWlN, MR. WHEELER, AND MR. WILTSHIRE.

LEADER OF THE LIBERAL PARTY: THE HON. SIR HENRY BOLTE, K.C.M.G.

DEPUTY LEADER OF THE LIBERAL PARTY: THE HON. SIR ARTHUR RYLAH, K.B.E., C.M.G., E.D. (Resigned, March 5, 1971); THE HON. R. J. HAMER, E.D. (From April 20, 1971).

LEADER OF THE PARLIAMENTARY LABOR PARTY AND LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: MR. A. C. HOLDING.

DEPUTY LEADER OF THE PARLIAMENTARY LABOR PARTY AND DEPUTY LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: MR. F. N. WILKES.

LEADER OF THE COUNTRY PARTY: MR. PETER Ross-EDWARDS.

DEPUTY LEADER OF THE COUNTRY PARTY: MR. M. S. WmTING.

HEADS OF PARLIAMENTARY DEPARTMENTS

Council-Clerk of the Parliaments and Clerk of the Legislative Council : Mr. A. R. B. McDonnell.

Assembly-Clerk of the Legislative Assembly: Mr. J. H. Campbell.

Hansard-Chief Reporter: Mr. G. E. Clarke (Retired, June 30, 1970) ; Mr. R. G. Stuart, E.D., (From July 1, 1970).

Library-Librarian: Miss J. McGovern.

Ho.use-Secretary: Mr. R. M. Duguid.

VICTORIA.

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES.

(HANSARD)

lJiirsl &tssinu uf l4t lJiurly-fifl4 Jarliamtul.

Ijrgi51atiur C!!UttUtil. Wednesday, June 17, 1970.

. OPENING OF PARLIAMENT BY COMMISSION.

The Forty-fifth Victorian Parliament was opened this day by Commission. The Commissioner appointed by His Excellency the Governor of the State of Victoria for this purpose was the Honorable Sir Henry Arthur Winneke, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Victoria.

At 11 a.m. the Clerk read the following: -

PROCLAMATION. By His Excellency the Governor of

the State of Victoria and its Dependencies in the Commonwealth of Australia, &c., &c., &c.

I, the Governor of the State of Victoria, in the Commonwealth of Australia, do by this my Proclamation fix Wednesday, the seventeenth day of June, 1970, as the time for the

Session 1970.-1

commencement and holding of the First Session of the Forty-fifth Parliament of Victoria, for the despatch of business, at the hour of Eleven o'clock in the forenoon, in the Parliament Houses, situate in Spring Street, in the City of Melbourne: And the Honorable the Members of the Legislative Council and the Members of the Legislative Assembly are hereby required to give their attendance at the said time and place accordingly.

Given under my Hand and the Seal of the State of Victoria aforesaid, at Melbourne, this second day of June, in the year of our Lord One thousand nine hundred and seventy, and in the nineteenth year of the reign of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.

(L.S.) ROHAN DELACOMBE. By His Excellency's Command,

HENRY BOLTE,

Premier.

GOD Sft,VE THE QUEEN!

2 Proclamation. [COUNCIL.] Governor's Speech.

The Commissioner immediately afterwards entered the Chamber, and was conducted by the Usher of the Black Rod to the chair.

The Commissioner directed that the attendance of the members of the Legislative Assembly be requested.

The members of the Legislative Assembly appeared at the Bar.

The COMMISSIONER (Sir Henry Winneke).-Mr. President and honorable members of the Legislative Council: Members of the Legislative Assembly: His Excellency the Governor, not thinking fit to be present in person, has been pleased to cause Letters Patent to issue, under the Seal of the State, constituting me his Commissioner to do in his name all that is necessary to be performed in this Parliament. This will more fully appear from the Letters Patent which will now be read by the Clerk.

The Letters Patent authorizing the Commissioner to open Parliament were read by the Clerk.

The COMMISSIONER . (Sir Henry Winneke).-Mr. President and honorable members of the Legislative Council: Members of the Legislative Assembly: I have. it in command from His Excellency to let you know that, later this day, His Excellency will declare to you in person, in this place, the causes of his calling this Parliament together; and, members of the Legislative Assembly, as it is necessary before you proceed to the despatch of business that a Speaker of the Legislative Assembly be chosen, His Excellency requests that you, in your Chamber, will proceed to the choice of a proper person to be Speaker.

The members of the Legislative Assembly retired from the Chamber, and the Commissioner withdrew.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett) took the chair at 1l.10 a.m., and read the prayer.

The sitting was suspended at 11.12 a.m. until 2.30 p.m.

GOVERNOR'S SPEECH. The Usher of the Black Rod

announced the approach of His Excellency the Governor.

His Excellency entered the Chamber attended by his suite.

The Legislative Assembly, with their Speaker, attended in response to His Excellency's summons.

His Excellency addressed the following Speech to both Houses of Parliament: -

MR. PRESIDENT AND HONORABLE MEMBERS OF THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL:

MR. SPEAKER AND MEMBERS OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY:

I have called you together at the earliest date after the recent conjoint election for this, the first session of the Forty-fifth Parliament of Victoria, so that you may consider matters of public business which require your attention.

This session is one in which my Ministers will bring before you a number of measures to implement, as a theme, the welfare and happiness of the people of this State, with emphas'is upon maintenance of the family unit, the education of young people, the preservation of a natural environment and the conservation of natural resources.

Before developing this theme, it is my duty to convey to this Parliament the pleasure that Her Majesty the Queen has expressed at the wonderful welcome extended to herself and her family during their recent visit to Victoria. Th'is was an occasion memorable to all of us, and its public acclaim reflected beyond doubt the loyalty of our people to the Sovereign and her family.

Not so pleasant is my duty to mention the death of the Honorable Sir Herbert Hyland, a former Minister of the Crown and member of the Legislative Assembly, who died during the latter days of the last Parliament.

Governor's [17 JUNE, 1970.] Speech. 3


A Supply Bill to make provision for the services of the first three months of the financial year 1970-71, and Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure for the current financial year will be presented to you immediately.

It is proposed that when Supply has been granted, the Parliament should adjourn until the normal Budget session. At that time, detailed Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the financial year 1970-71 will be submitted to you, as well as any necessary further Supplementary Estimates for the current financial year.

MR. PRESIDENT AND HONORABLE MEMBERS OF THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL:


As I have indicated, my Government's objective is the continued welfare of the people of this State.

There will be established a separate Ministry of Social Welfare, aimed a t the removal of pockets of social distress amongst the young, the old and those suffering from illness.

It is the intention of the Government to set guidelines for further implementation of the metropolitan transportation plan and work will start on the underground railway loop.

In the field of education I am advised that there is to be launched a programme for the recruitment of qualified teachers from overseas, and that there will be decentralization of the administration of the Education Department.

A Victorian Pollution Control Authority will be established, with powers to prevent the pollution of water, air and land. A Chair of Environmental Studies will be created at the University of Melbourne. Also, there will be a detailed analysis

of the utilization of Crown land in this State to make provision for its retention as parks, wildlife reserves and forests.

These, in broad outline, are the subjects that will be brought forward for your consideration in this session.

In formally opening this Parliament, I pray that the guidance of Almighty God may attend upon your deliberations.

Copies of the Speech were handed by the Governor's Private Secretary to the President and the Speaker.

His Excellency and suite withdrew, and members of the Legislative Assembly retired from the Chamber.

The . sitting was suspended at 2.43 p.m. until 4.52 p.m.

THE MINISTRY. The HOD. G. L. CHANDLER

(Minister of Agriculture) (By leave) . -I wish to inform the House of the following changes in the Ministry:-

The Hon. J. F. Rossiter, M.P., Minister of Health.

The Hon. W. A. Borthwick, M.P., Minister of Lands, Minister of Soldier Settlement, and Minister for Conservation.

The Hon. J. A. Rafferty, M.P., Minister of Labour and Industry, and Assistant Minister of Education.

The Hon. I. W. Smith, M.P., Minister of Water Supply.

The Hon. V. O. Dickie, M.L.C., Minister of State Development, and Minister for Tourism.

The Hon. Murray Byrne, M.L.C., Minister of Public Works.

LEADERSHIP OF PARTIES. The HOD. J. M. TRIPOVICH

(Doutta Galla Province) (By leave). -I wish to inform the House, Mr. President, that there has been a change in the leadership of the Labor Party in the Legislative Council. I shall have the privilege

4 Leadt '"hip of Parties. [COUNCIL.] Committees.

of leading my party in this House. Mr. Walton is my Deputy Leader, and Mr. Knight is the new Whip. I pay my warmest tribute to my predecessor, Mr. Galbally. It is my ambition to live up to the standards which he set in this place.

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE (North-Eastern Province) (By leave). -I inform the Council that there has been no change in the leadership of the Country Party in this House. I have been re-elected Leader, and Mr. Mansell has been re-elected Deputy Leader of the Country Party. We shall carry out the same functions as heretofore.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) (By leave). -On behalf of the Liberal Party and the Government, I congratulate Mr. Tripovich on his election to leadership of his party, Mr. Walton on his election to the Deputy Leadership, and Mr. Knight on his election to the office of Whip.

I take the opportunity of saying how much other members of my party and I have appreciated Mr. Galbally's support and co-operation in the handling of the business of the House. ThiQgs happen in this hazardous occupation and I should like Mr. Galbally to know that I appreciated his help during the many years in which I was Deputy Leader of my party under Sir Arthur Warner, and since I became Leader of the House. On almost every occasion, Mr. Galbally has been an ornament to the position he held as Leader of the Labor Party in this Chamber. I hope that his services to this Parliament will continue for many years.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-I sincerely endorse the remarks made by the Leader of the House about the various honorable members he mentioned.

STOCK (ARTIFICIAL BREEDING) (AMENDMENT) BI~L.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minist'er of Agriculture) .-In order to preserve the privileges of this House,

and in accordance with the Standing Orders, I move that I have leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Stock (Artificial Breeding) Act 1962.

The motion was agreed to.

The Bill was brought in and read a first time.

HOUSE COMMITTEE. The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Min

ister of Agriculture) .-By leave, I move-

That the Honorables A. K. Bradbury, D. G. Elliot, H. M. Hamilton, S. R. McDonald; and Archibald Todd be members of the House Committee.


LIBRARY COMMITTEE. The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Min


That the Honorables the President, M. A. Clarke, F. S. Grimwade, Samuel Merrifield, and J. M. Walton be members of the Joint Committee to manage the Library.


PRINTING COMMITTEE. The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Min


That the Honorables the President, W. M. Campbell, B. P. Dunn, S. E. Gleeson, A. W. Knight, A. R. Mansell, I. A. Swinburne, and Archibald Todd be members of the Printing Committee; three to be the quorum.


STANDING ORDERS COMMITTEE. The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Min


That the Honorables the President, F. J. Granter, K. S. Gross, A. J. Hunt, A. R. Mansell, I. A. Swinburne, J. M. Tripovich, and J. M. Walton be members of the Select Committee on the Standing Orders of the House; three to be the quorum.


9ommittees. [17 JUNE, 1970.] Comf?'lit tee.s. 5

STATUTE LAW REVISION COMMITTEE.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) .-By leave, I move-

That the Honorables W. M. Campbell, M. A. Clarke, D. G. Elliot, A. J. Hunt, R. W. May, and J. M. Tripovich be members of the Statute Law Revision Committee, and· that the said committee have power to send for persons, papers, and records.


SUBORDINATE LEGISLATION COMMITTEE.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Ministerof Agriculture) .-By leave, I move-

That the Honorables K. S. Gross, C. A. Mitchell, and G. J. O'Connell be members of the Subordinate Legislation Committee, and that the said committee have power to send for persons, papers, and records.


PUBLIC WORKS COMMITTEE. The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Min

ister of Agriculture) .-By leave,' I move-

That the Honorables A. K. Bradbury and W. V. Houghton be appointed members of the Public Works Committee.


STATE DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE.


That the Honorables A. W. Knight and A. R. Mansell be appointed members of the State Development Committee.


MEAT INDUSTRY COMMITTEE. The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Min


That, contingent upon the enactment,' this session, of legislation for the establishment of a Joint Select Committee of the Legislative Council and the Legislative Assembly to inquire into and report upon certain questions relating to the meat indusltry in Victoria, and for other purposes, the following members of this House be appointed members of the committee:The Honorables D. G. Elliot, S. E. Gleeson, F. J. Granter, and S. R. McDonald.

The motion was agreed to. . .

ROAD SAFETY COMMITTEE. The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Min

ister of Agriculture) .-By leave, I move---- .'

That, contingent upon the enactment, this session, of legislation for the establishment of a Joint Select Committee of the Legislative Council and the Legislative Assembly Ito inquire into 'and report upon certain ques1tions rel,ating to road s'afety, 'and for other purposes, 'the following members of thi,s House be appointed members of the oommi,ttee:-The Honorables B. P. Dunn, W. G. Fry, H. M. Hamilton, 'and J. M. Walton.


QUESTIONS ON NOTICE. SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER

No. 77. The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Min


That so much of the Standing Order No. 77 as requires a member giving notice of a question to read it aloud to the House be suspended for the remainder of this session. A list has been prepared and circulated to honorable members indicating the various portfolios in another place for which Ministers in this House will answer questions on notice.


TEMPORARY CHAIRMEN OF COMMITTEES.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett) laid on the table his warrant nominating the Honorables A. K. Bradbury, W. G. Fry, K. S. Gross, and A. W. Knight to act as Temporary Chairmen of Committees whenever requested to do so by the Chairman of Committees or whenever the Chairman of Committees is absent.

WHEAT MARKETING (SPECIAL QUOTAS) BILL. .

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend section 34' of the Wheat Marketing Act 1969.

The motion was agreed to. The Bill w,as brought in and read

a first time.

6 Govern~Jr' s Speech: [COUNCIL.] Address-in-Reply.

GOVERNOR'S SPEECH. ADDRESS-IN-REPLY.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-Earlier this day, it pleased His Excellency the Governor to attend this House and make a Speech. I now invite the Honorable F. J. Granter to move a motion for the adoption of an Address-in-Reply.

The Hon. F. J. GRANTER (Bendigo Province) .-1 move-

That the Council agree to the following Address to His Excellency the Governor in reply to Hi'S ExceUency's opening Speech:-

MAY IT PLEASE YOUR EXCELLENCY:

We, the Legislative Council of Victoria, in Parliament assembled, beg to express our loyalty to our Most Gracious Sovereign and to thank Your Excellency for the gracious Speech which you have been pleased to address to Parliament.

Some six years ago, I was privileged to have the honour to move the motion for the adoption of an Address-in-Reply to His Excellency's Speech. I deem it an honour on this .occasion to be privileged to move a similar motion. It is a greater .honour this year when one realizes that it is the opening of Parliament -following the visit to Victoria of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Prince Philip, Prince Charles and Princess Anne. The Royal Family made a .marvellous impression on the people lof Victoria. I wish to reaffirm my loyalty to Her Majesty and to incorporate in my affirmation an expression of loyalty from the people of the Bendigo Province, which I have the pleasure to represent.

I also emphasize how pleasing it is for the people of Victoria that Sir Rohan Delacombe is continuing as our Governor with the wonderful support that he receives from Lady Delacombe. His Excellency and Lady Delacombe, who are ever ready to serve the people of the State, do not spare themselves. During their term of office, they have visited all parts of the State as often as possible. It was particularly gratifying that, following the disastrous fires in January, 1969, His Excellency visited

the Maldon, Newstead and Harcourt areas, which were badly devastated by fire. I can assure His Excellency that his visit was a great morale booster to the people who suffered so much.

Until recently, pollution hardly rated a headline in our national press, and seldom even a mention. Now, however, the word is on everybody's lips, indicating that the community has become aware of the many-sided aspects of this world-wide peril. Honorable members no doubt appreciate the extent of the peril and I am sure that this House and the Government will take steps to control pollution in Victoria. In his Speech, His Excellency referred to the proposed establishment of a pollution control authority and, when the relevant Bill is introduced into Parliament, members will have an opportunity to debate it and make suggestions concerning it. Much value will be derived by the people and the State in general when the new authority is functioning. As one who served on the Drainage Committee, I am familiar with the great volume of work undertaken by my colleagues, Mr. Cathie and Mr. Swinburne, and members from another place in producing a report which will prove beneficial as a guideline for the pollution authority which is to be established.

During the past six or eight weeks, I, and many other members of this House, have travelled through Victoria and become fully acquainted with the plight of the small farmer, who has been seriously affected by spiralling costs, declining prices and, in some cases, over-production. The situation would be distressing enough if only the small farmers suffered in this way but it has had a snowballing effect which is being felt in businesses, commerce and industry. Among the first to suffer are the small towns, such as Maldon, Heathcote and Newstead, but many other towns have also been adversely affected. The land and its products

I

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Governor's Speech: [17 JUNE, 1970.] Address-in-Reply. 7

will continue to be the basis of our economy in the years to come, notwithstanding the excitement that surrounds the discovery and development of our mineral resources.

Although the Government has shown its willingness to assist in many small ways, I feel that other avenues of assistance should be investigated to relieve the hardship to the small farmers. Possibly the Rural Finance and Settlement Commission could be expanded to provide more assistance for the man on the land. The commission, of course, renders valuable assistance, especially in times when disastrous losses have been sustained as a result of drought, fire and hail. It also assists many secondary industries in provincial centres. This has been a step in the right direction, but I still advocate that the commission should be given wider powers.

It has become apparent to me in recent weeks that the new trends in banking policy have caused concern to many small farmers. As honorable members are aware, the Federal Government pegged overdraft interest rates for primary producers at 6! per cent. This measure was designed to stabilize in one direction at least the farmer's costs of production. Although overdraft interest rates have been pegged at 6! per cent, many farmers have been asked to take fixed term loans at higher rates of interest. Small farmers cannot meet the higher costs involved in this procedure. Like other honorable members, I have received many requests from people seeking relief from high interest rates. I have referred these farmers to the Rural Finance and Settlement Commission, but the commission is not anxious to become involved with those who have obtained money from other sources. I believe this question should be reconsidered. Possibly, there should be a greater avenue for small people to be accommodated financially by the commission.

The Government has intimated that it will divide Victoria into four agricultural regions with headquarters at strategic centres. This is an excellent idea. The extension services of the Department of Agriculture will become more important than ever in the history of agriculture in this State. Never before has agriculture received such an impetus. The advisory services which will be available from these centres will assist farmers to take advantage of scientific research and this will encourage them to change their thoughts on agriculture. It may be necessary to some degree to reconstruct the agricultural set-up in Victoria. Honorable members are familiar with the excellent work that has been undertaken at the State Research Farm at Werribee, particularly in relation to wheat and other grains. I am sure that with the co-operation of the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization, these advisory services can play an important part in beef and sheep production and in other facets of agricul ture.

On 30th May the people of Victoria showed their confidence in the ability of the Government to carry on a vigorous and enlightened education policy. I believe that the first need is to provide accommodation for all children in our schools,. and that the provision of new classrooms and other facilities will continue to be most essential. Some of the schools in the province of which I have the honour to be a representative are more than 100 years old and they reflect what took place concerning education a century ago. I ask the Government to make funds available for the reconstruction of school grounds within Bendigo Province. The playing. areas of some schools are so rugged that I do not know how the Bendigo, Maryborough and Castlemaine areas produce as many good footballers as they do.

One facet of the "Governor's Speech which will be of interest to country members is his mention of the fact

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8 Governor's Speech: [COUNCIL.] Address-in-Reply.

that the Government intends to recruit teachers from overseas. In this connection, I suggest that great emphasis should be placed on the need for recruiting teachers to teach mathematics and science, for they are in short supply in country areas. Together with many schools throughout the State, two or three schools in my province are desperately in need of a mathematics and a science teacher.

In his Speech, His Excellency referred to the recent conjoint State elections. We are now in the 1970s, and there has been tremendous advancement in the use of electronics and computers as well as in the number of people who own motor cars and do not work on Saturdays, and it seems to me to be ridiculous that voting should take place from 8 a.m. until 8 p.m. A postal vote can be obtained upon almost any request; in fact a person who lives 5 miles from a pblling booth can obtain a postal vote. I believe that these antiquated hours should be altered. When an election is held during the winter, it is often dark outside polling booths before closing time. Many booth~ in Bendigo Province have no outside lights, and this constitutes a danger to the public. Steps should be taken immediately to alter the hours of voting, in respect of all three sections ,of government, to from 8 a.m. to If) p.m.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-With universal Saturday voting?

The Hon. F. J. GRANTER.-I do not disagree with that suggestion. Local government voting is carried on during varying hours. In some areas booths close at 4 p.m., 5 p.m. or 6 p.m.; others remain open until 8 p.m. This matter might be taken up at the next Premiers' Conference. It has been suggested that consideration will be given to extending the vote to persons of eighteen years of age, and if this policy is to be implemented an amendment of the legislation will be necessary. That might be an appropriate time to alter the votirig hours. I also think it is silly for persons to distr~bute how-to-vote

cards outside polling booths, but that is another matter. I mention the matter because my Labor Party opponent spoke vigorously about it at the declaration of the poll, and I agree with him.

In conclusion, I extend a welcome to the new members who will enter this House and offer my best wishes to those who will leave this Chamber. I wish them well in their future careers.

The Hon. K. S. GROSS (Western Province) .-Twelve years ago I had the privilege of seconding the motion for the adoption of an Address-inReply to the Governor's Speech. At that time I was a very raw and nervous member of this House, and it is probable that I am still a little of both, but it gives me much pleasure on behalf of my constituents in the Western Province to have another opportunity of seconding an Addressin-Reply motion-on this occasion one ably moved by my colleague, Mr. Granter. I re-affirm my loyalty to Her Majesty the Queen and also that of my constituents, who were immensely pleased that Portland was one of the country areas chosen to be visited during the recent tour of the Royal Family. I can assure the House that although the weather was chilly, Her Majesty and Prince Philip received a very warm welcome. I was gratified at a recent public meeting at Portland to hear the district inspector of schools thank the Premier for his generous gesture in making free train travel available to some 5,000 school children from areas as far north as Horsham to enable them to stage a mass welcome to Her Majesty and Prince Philip.

Mr. Granter mentioned the work being done by Sir Rohan and· Lady Delacombe, and I heartily endorse his remarks; in fact, as I have said before they are perhaps the two best infor'med people concerning What is taking place in Victoria because they visit many areas regularly. They are always warmly :welcome?, and they display a keen Interest In what is taking place in particular


districts. Many local people are astounded at the knowledge which Sir Rohan and Lady Delacombe have of the areas they visit and of the people they meet.

I believe that our system of having a monarch as the constitutional head is the envy of many other countries of the world. In other countries, the leaders of which are elected-or perhaps selected-there does not seem to be that cohesion, or binding together, that exists within member countries of the Commonwealth of Nations of which Her Majesty the Queen is sovereign.

I think it is fair to say that prior to the recent visit to Australia of the Royal Family a lack of interest was shown by younger people, who probably thought it was "old hat" to display loyalty to a person or persons who lived 12,000 miles away. However, since the Royal visit, which was so successful, I believe that the influence of the Royal Family has been restored.

Young people in our community today tend to forget many of the things that we of the older generation fought for 30 years ago, and in many cases have continued to fight for ever since. Bearing this in mind, I -together, I am sure, with the vast majority of the community-deplore any incitement to people to break the law. In a democracy such as ours, people must abide by the law of the land. Freedom involves responsibility and t.hat responsibility places an obligation upon us all to exercise self discipline, to obey the law and to see that the law is administered honestly. I do not object to people who wish to protest or demonstrate about various things, so long as the demonstrations are orderly, but I believe tha t the conduct of some recent events in this country is open to suspicion. I trust that any future demonstrations will continue to be orderly, for I fear the outcome if at any stage violence should erupt. In my opinion the majority of young people are clear thinkers, and I hope

they wiU :assert their independence of thought and not participate in demonstrations merely because it happens to be the" in thing ".

During his reference to various matters concerning the administration of Victoria, Mr. Granter mentioned education. I believe one of the most important changes proposed is that which is concerned with the decentralization of the administration of the Education Department. I understand that in four centres of the State there will be. located officers who wiil have the responsibility of controlling many matters-repairs, ~chool needs, and so on-instead of all these things being done from Melbourne. If these centres are manned by competent officers, who I know can be found within the Education Department, this will represent a great step forward, not only in schooling in country areas but in assisting school committees and advisory councils to provide amenities, equipment and other things which go to make a school.

It is not only four walls and equipment which make a school; it is also the attitude of the teachers who staff it. I know that it is the case in many schools now but I would hope that all teachers showed a dedication of purpose to ensure that the children placed in their care received the best tuition it is possible to give them.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-Would you not agree that 95 per cent of the teachers are dedicated?

The Hon. K. S. GROSS.-I agree that the figure of 95 per cent is a pretty fair assessment. I ask for the dedication of the other 5 per cent, and I do not think that is asking too much.

An item which appeared in the newspapers this morning is of tremendous importance to all Victorians. It was the announcement that there~ will be a curfew on the new Melbourne Airport at Tullamarine. Why' this should be so, I find it hard to understand.

10 Governor's Speech: [COUNCIL.] Address-in-Reply.

The Han. D. G. ELLIOT.-You would squeal if aeroplanes flew over your farm.

The Hon. K. S. GROSS.-Aeroplanes fly over my farm every day of the week, and they do not worry me greatly. If there is to be progress and development, somebody must be prepared to put up with a certain amount of inconvenience and discomfort. I am appalled that the new jetport should be closed for certain hours during the night. Tourism will soon be a booming industry in this State. The industry is developing steadily, and Victoria has a new Minister for Tourism. It is regrettable that aeroplanes from overseas cannot come into Melbourne at any time that suits the companies operating them. Australia cannot control the times at which they leave their headquarters, and the authorities should be prepared to receive them at any time.·

The increasing tourist traffic will benefit not only Melbourne but all of Victoria. An overseas tourist does not go home and say that he has· seen Victoria because he has been to Melbourne. He should be given every assistance to see the many and varied items of interest throughout the whole State. With the development of regional tourist centres and, I hope, more tourist offices throughout the countryside, this objective will be achieved.

Mr. Granter mentioned the plight of the farming community and that of businessmen in small country towns. In addition, I point to the plight of businessmen in the larger country towns. I hope that the extra revenue which will come from an increasing tourist traffic can be shared by all; and particularly by business people in country areas, to offset any drop in spending by the rural sector of industry-and that drop has been considerable.

Earlier this evening, the Minister of Agriculture gave notice of a Bill dealing with the wheat industry. I shall not discuss the Bill, but I want to say something about the present state of the rural economy. The wheat

industry faces the problem of overproduction and has been subjected to a quota system and other restrictions. There is talk of restrictions in the dairying industry. How long it will be before there is talk of restrictions in other sections of rural industry, I do not know. However, I hope that every member of this Parliament will continually put forward ideas and persistently press the Federal Government to take action to benefit rural industries.

If subsidies for rural industries are mentioned, economists, profes~ors, and academics at universities and elsewhere throw up their hands in horror and say that we cannot help the farmers any more. Australia has been living on the backs of primary producers for almost its entire history. Surely it is a small price to pay now to assist primary industries when they are in a tight spot. Admittedly, the problems are world wide, but it should be borne in mind that with such things as floods in Europe, a drought in England, and goodness knows what might happen elsewhere, Mother Nature has a habit of righting imbalances from time to time. I know that the Government of Victoria will do what it can to assist primary industry during this period. I know that it will continually press the Federal Government to do something about the problems and I sincerely hope that every member of this Parliament will help.

Until we can persuade the advisers in Canberra and elsewhere to examine more than figures and to refrain from making decisions on figures alone, we will not get very far. It is all very well to speak of reconstruction schemes in the dairying, wool, or any other industry, but in any reconstruction scheme it must always be borne in mind that a human element is involved. I, for" one, would not have a bar of any reconstruction scheme based on any form of compulsion; any reconstruction scheme must be completely voluntary. No polItical party could bear the stigma of amalgamating farms, depleting the

Wheat Marketing [17 JUNE, 1970.] (Special Quotas) Bill. 11

rural population, and turning country towns into ghost towns. This reinforces my plea that we must all do our utmost to make certain that those in power in Canberra get the message and do something quickly. I again reaffirm my loyalty, and formally second the motion for the adoption of an Address-in-Reply.

On the motion of the Hon. J. 'M. TRIPOVICH (Doutta Galla Province), the debate was adjourned.

It was ordered that the debate be, adjourned until the next day of thei meeting.

WHEAT MARKETING (SPECIAL QUOTAS) BILL.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) .-1 move-

That this Bill be now read a second time. The grains division of the Victorian Farmers Union has reviewed the operation of the Wheat Marketing Act during the past season and has submitted to me proposals for a number of amendments which the union considers would facilitate the operation of the wheat delivery quota scheme in this State. These proposals will be considered by the Government with a view to the introduction of any necessary amending legislation during the spring sessional period.

However, one of the amendmentsi recommended by the union relates to the ground on which a special quota may be granted in respect of seasons subsequent to the season 1969-70. The union regards this particular amendment to paragraph (b) of subsection (1) of section 34 of the Act as urgent because it can operate in respect of the coming season only if the necessary legislation is passed immediately. The reason for this is that the formula for the allocation of quotas for 1970-71 has already been determined, and growers are required to submit their applications for quotas not later than 30th June next. Notifications of the quotas allocated by the Wheat Quota Committee will be issued within a few days after receipt of the applications.

To enable growers to comply with the statutory requirement that applications for review of their quotas must be lodged within 30 days of the date of issue of the prescribed quota notification, it is essential that this notification include advice as to· the ground on which they may apply for a special quota. Therefore, it win be appreciated that, if the ground for review is to be revised as recommended by the Victorian Farmers Union, the necessary legislation must be passed now; otherwise the issue of quota notifications and the determination of applications for special quotas will be delayed with inevitable dislocation of arrangements for the intake of . quota deliveries from the 1970-71 harvest.

The Governm'ent regards the Wheat Marketing Act as legislation which the industry itself sought in order to' r.ationalize the delivery and storage of wheat. Therefore, the Government is prepared to consider ,any amendments which, in the opinion of the recognized industry body, the Victorian Farmers Union, are necessary for the effective operation of the quota delivery scheme. It is in this light that the Government has considered the union's recommendation for amendment of paragraph (b) of sub-section (1) of section 34 of the Act, and has decided that the recommendation should be implemented. The amendments proposed by the union are embodied in the Bill now before the House which, for the reasons I have just outlined, has been introduced as a matter of urgency.

In clause 2 the Bill proposes the substitution of a new paragraph (b) in sub-section (1) of section 34 of the Act specifying the ground which must be established before a special quota may be allocated in respect of of seasons subsequent to 1969-70. When the existing provision was; proposed by the Victorian Farmers: Union at the time of the drafting of the Act prior to last season, it was envisaged that special quotas granted in 1969-70 under the three categories

i2 Wheat- Marketing [COUNCIL.] (Special Quotas) Bill.

specified· in paragraph (a) of subsection (1) of section 34 would enable quotas . to be. reasonably adjusted having regard to the circumstances of each case and the over-all quantity of wheat available for allocation~

The assumption was that all claims for special quotas on the grounds considered by the Victorian Farmers Union to warrant special consideration would have been determined and finalized at the end of 1969-70, and that the quota ahd any special quota allocated to a grower in that season would together form the basic quota to which the formula for allocation of his quota in subsequent seasons would be applied. That being so, it was considered at the time that provision for special quotas in seasons subsequent to 1969-70 should be made only on the ground of hardship due to causes not aScertainable or operative when quotas or special quotas were allocated for the season 1969 ..... 70. Accordingly paragraph (b) of sub-section (1) of section 34 of the principal Act was drafted on that basis.

Altogether, some 7,100 applications for special quotas were received in 1969-70. Of these, about, 3,500 applications were granted under categories 1 and 2 of paragraph (a) of sub-section (1) of section 34-national service, illness or death, hail or fire damage and localized adverse seasonal conditions-and approximately 1,100 under ·category 3-heavy financial commitment. In terms of wheat, about 1.25 million: bushels were alloca ted as special quotas under categories 1 and 2, and approximately 2 million bushels under category 3.

In reviewing the allocation of special quotas for 1969-70, it became apparent to the Victorian Farmers Union that, whilst special quotas granted under categories 1 and 2 could be regarded as finalizing the claims received because the grounds for application covered special circumstances which had arisen or occurred during the previous six

The Hon. G. L. Chandler.

seasons, special quotas gtanted under category 3 on the ground of heavy financial commitment could be considered only on a year-to-year basis because of the changing circumstanceS involved.

For this reason, the Victorian Farmers Unioh, when recommending the formula for allocation of individuaJ quotas in 1970-71, decided that any special quotas allocated in 1969-70 under categories 1 arid 2 of paragraph (a) of sub-section (1) of section 34 should be included in the basic quota to which the formula for 1970-71 would be applied, but that special quotas granted under category 3-heavy financial commitment-should be excluded. The formula for allocation of individual quotas in 1970-71 has therefore already been determined on that basis.

This means that provision has to be made whereby in respect of seasons subsequent to 1969-70 applications can be submitted and special quotas allocated on the ground of heavy financial commitment. The existing provision in paragraph (b) of sub-section (1) of section 34 of the Act setting out the ground on which special quotas may be allocated for 1970-71 and future seasons does not specifically cover this point. Furthermore, the Victorian Farmers Union considers that the existing provision is vague and unsatisfactory in that it provides no guidance either to growers or the Wheat Quota Review Committee as to the basis on which applications for special quotas may be submitted or determined.

The quantity of wheat available for special quotas in 1970-71 is only 1.6 million bushels and obviously some clear specification is needed as to the basis of allocation. The Victorian Farmers Union has closely examined this matter, and considers that the allocation of special quotas in future seasons during the currency of the Act should be restricted to growers whose financial situation is such that their economic survival is

Wheat Marketing'. [17 JUNE, 1970.] (Special Quotas) Bill. ·13

threatened. It has therefore recommended that the ground on which special quotas may be allocated in 1970--71 and subsequent seasons shall be as set out in clause 2 of the Bill. It will be noted that in order to qualify under this clause an applicant must have undertaken, prior to 19th March, 1969, the clearing and levelling of virgin land to establish its wheatgrowing capacity or his income from f~rn:ti~g must have been severely dlmmlshed because of the imposition of wheat quotas.

The Victorian Farmers Union has also recommended that two qualifications should operate in relation to the allocation of special quotas, and these are specified in clause 3 of the Bill.

Firstly, the allocation of special quotas is to be restricted to cases where the review committee is satisfied that the applicant's net income from his land during the previous financial year substantially exceeded his net income from other sources in the same period. This restriction will not apply in cases where the net farm income has been lowered by abnormal circumstances, such as drought conditions. The purpose of the restriction is to ensure that the wheat available for allocation as special quotas is directed to those whose livelihood is dependent primarily on their farming operations.

Secondly, the total quantity of wheat which may be allocated by way of a quota and special quota to an applicant in any season is not to exceed the quantity of his highest seasonal delivery during the five seasons prior to 1968-69. It is the opinion of the Victorian Farmers Union that no applicant should receive a special quota which, together with his quota, would place him in a better position with regard to wheat deliveries than applied in his best delivery season during the quota averaging period. The season 1968-69 has been excluded because the union considers that it was an abnormal season, in regard both to

acreage sown and wheat delivered, following as it did the severe drought of 1967-68.

This Bill has been introduced at the specific request of the Victorian Farmers Union, and the provisions incorporated in the measure represent the recommendations of that organization and have its full approval. As I indicated earlier, it is essential that this amending legislation be passed as a matter of urgency if the revised ground for allocation of special quotas is to operate in respect of the coming season.

All honorable members who have had some experience of the operation of the wheat marketing legislation will agree that anomalies have existed. In order that these anomalies might be investigated, I invited the Victorian Farmers Union to submit recommendations, and about ten days ago a conference was held in my office between representatives of the union who submitted proposed amendments, the Wheat Quota Review Committee, the Grain Elevators Board, and officers of the Law Department and of the Department of Agriculture. The outcome of those discussions has been embodied in the Bill I have explained.

Because of the urgent nature of several of these amendments it was agreed that they should be presented to Parliament during this short sessional period and the industry indicated to me that it would take up with the other parties represented in the Parliament the question of their acceptance of these amendments. I understand that that has been done and that the way is clear to bring before this House these vital amendments which, if enacted, will overcome anomalies arising from legislation passed during the last session of the Forty-fourth Parliament. Any other amendments considered necessary could be presented to the House in the forthcoming spring sessional period, but the amendments contained in this Bill are urgent arid I recommend them to honorable members.

14 Wheat Marketing [COUNCIL.] (Special Quotas) Bill.

The Hon. ARCHmALD TODD (Melbourne West Province).-This will certainly be the last occasion on which I shall have the privilege of addressing the House, and I thank my Leader, Mr. Tripovich, for affording me this opportunity to speak to a Bill relating to the wheat situation.

When on a previous occasion this House discussed a measure relating to wheat quotas members of the Labor Party warned that it contained certain anomalies and predicted that ultimately some action would have to be taken to rectify them to ensure that justice for all could be achieved. I am disturbed that in the allocation of quotas for wheat growing there is not a graduated system, instead of the load falling on all wheat growers on a percentage basis. The quota of a small grower, who depends for his livelihood on the yield from a modest acreage, should not be based on the same percentage as that of a farmer who cultivates large areas of land and produces a great quantity of wheat. .

I sincerely regret the necessity for this type of legislation. In effect, the Government is saying to the farmer, "You can grow as much wheat as you like, but the Grain Elevators Board, or the Australian Wheat Board, will handle only a certain percentage of it."

Much has been said about black marketing in wheat. When a Select Committee of this House visited the Little Desert area last year, its members were able to see the point at which a large quantity of the black market wheat from Victoria was going over the border into South Australia.

Members of the Labor Party regret the necessity for the enactment of a Bill to force farmers to restrict their production. We recognize that there is an important reason for this action. Despite the assertion by many that the situation could be easily corrected, it is important to note that Australia is unable to find the necessary markets for its primary produce.

This situation applies with regard to wheat, dairy produce, and, even more recently, mutton, which seems to be in the public eye because of the refusal of the United States of America and Canada to accept certain cargoes of export mutton from Australia. The only answer to the problem is for the Federal Government to engage in a much stronger campaign to secure markets for our rural produce.'

It is shameful that Australians have the ability to produce food which nations throughout the world badly need but that we are unable to supply it to them because nobody is prepared to purchase it from us to assist those people. In the unfortunate country which has recently been devastated by an earthquake, thousands of people are homeless and starving and a sizeable quantity of our surplus food production could be utilized to ensure that their stomachs are filled.

I am also disturbed by some of the problems facing the wool, meat and dairying industries. In the nations which buy from Australia, there are elements who desire to force the price down to the lowest limit and expect to buy the best quality at the lowest rate. Some years ago, there was keen competition for Australia's wool; prices remained steady and the

,man who entrusted his livelihood to sheep was doing well. Many of them had turned from wheat to wool, but when conditions started to deteriorate, they reverted to wheat growing. Accordingly, there was a substantial increase in the amount of wheat produced in the wheat-growing States of Australia.

The whole problem is: Where do we sell it? It may be necessary for the Federal Government to encourage certain countries which have not used wheat as a staple diet to consider its use. Efforts should be made to break down many of the barriers that exist in overseas countries. For example, India has some peculiar ideas about the cow and other things, and it may be necessary to induce


. the people of that country to realize that they would be better off if they consumed some of Australia's produce.

It has been argued that the Government subsidizes secondary ,industries and certain other industries, and the taxpayer must foot the Bill. Some cleaning-up process must be undertaken to ensure that primary produce can be disposed of season after season and so obviate the accumulation of surplus quantities of wheat almost sufficient to meet next year's demand by the purchasing nations.

The Labor Party will not oppose the measure but it regrets the necessity for its introduction. When the original measure was debated last year, the Government was warned that anomalies existed and that they would have to be corrected. This Bill represents the first step towards removing the anomalies and the Minister has already foreshadowed the introduction of further legislation to amend the principal Act during the spring session.

One of the members who spoke in the Address-in-Reply debate expressed objection to compulsion in the reconstruction of farms. With a member from another place. I visited two soldier settlement areas, one on the McNicol estate near Casterton and the other on the Retreat estate nearby. To our surprise, we found that most of those people were trying to operate dairy farms on holdings which were far too small. Despite their efforts to persuade the Government to afford some relief, these farmers were living on the bread line. Each farmer was prepared to produce his books to show that this was the case. Irrespective of what some people might say in cases such as those, I believe there is a need for reconstruction in order that at least some of these soldier settlers will be able to obtain a reasonable living from the land, and in the evening of their lives have accumulated sufficient means to enable them to retire. The Labor Party will not impede the passage of this measure.

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE (North-Eastern Province). - The Country Party supports the measure and two or three of its members wish to speak on certain points. When the original Bill was before the House last year, the Country Party raised several matters in relation to it. Conferences were held between the Victorian Farmers Union, the Minister of Agriculture and others in· an attempt to achieve some uniformity of thinking as to what should be done to bring this matter to fruition. The first step is now being taken by the introduction of this measure, and I can visualize a series of amending Bills being introduced until sanity is achieved.

When the establishment of the Wheat Quota Committee and the Wheat Quota Review Committee was proposed, members of the Country Party emphasized that the committees should be responsible to Parliament. We tried to have the original measure amended but we were not supported in this regard. . These committees were empowered to do as they thought fit, and that is what they are doing. They are showing no respect for Parliament, the Government, the Minister or anyone else, and the Country Party strongly objects to this attitude.

At the moment, the committees do not bother to acknowledge representations by members of Parliament on behalf of constituents. A member can write to the secretary of the Wheat Quota Review Committee until he runs out of energy or ink, and he will not receive a reply. These bodies, which have been set up under an Act of Parliament, should be responsible to Parliament. The Government was warned about what might happen, but refused to face up to the possibility.

A farmer who has had an application refused should be informed of the reasons for such refusal. When a member of Parliament seeks the reasons for a refusal, an acknowledgment should be forthcoming. Up to date, some members


of my party, and no doubt also members of other parties, have faced this problem. They have received perhaps a hundred letters or more from wheat growers but have not yet received from the secretary of the review committee even an acknowledgment of a communication. In a democratic system, this is not right.

I have had some experience of quotas in the tobacco industry. The Minister, Mr. Bradbury and I are three members of this House who have had experience of the problems associated with quotas in the tobacco industry. At least in that industry a person had the right to state his case to the review committee, and was then told the reasons for the decision. Everybody was treated in the same way. If a member of Parliament made representations to the secretary' of the review committee, he received a proper and courteous reply.

In the case of the wheat industry, the committees are doing as they think fit and I ask the Minister of Agriculture, who is responsible for the administration of the Wheat Marketing Act, to bring these matters to the attention of the two committees, and to remind them that they are responsible to Parliament for their actions and that members of Parliament have a right to receive the same courtesy as they expect to receive from a department or any other organization which is set up under an Act of Parliament and is responsible to a Minister. If this is done many of the growers' problems will be overcome. Members of our party have been incensed at the attitude adopted. We have already spoken to the Minister. but I wish to place on record the state of affairs that exists despite the fact that the Act provides that the Wheat Quota Review Committee may act as it thinks fit. At least members of this committee should be courteous to the elected representatives of the people of Victoria, and I ask the Minister to take up this matter.

The Hon. I. A. Swinburne.

The Hon. S. R. McDONALD (N orthern Province) .-As the Minister stated in his second-reading speech, the purpose of the Bill is to amend section 34 of the Wheat Marketing Act. Paragraph (a) of sub-section (1) of this section contains the grounds upon which a wheat grower may appeal and includes the ground of heavy financial commitment. As Mr. Swinburne indicated, our party accepts the need to pass this legislation as quickly as possible and accepts as sound and necessary the principles embodied in the amendments. Therefore, we will support the measure. However, I wish to. make some general comments on th~ operation of the quota system and to refer particularly to the operation of the Wheat Quota Review Committee which is responsible for assessing the appeals for special quotas on a variety of grounds. In the last season, when the Victorian quota was set at 65 million bushels, the legislation, which was enacted quickly last year to establish the quota system, worked reasonably well.

The growers' organizations and all those persons associated with the wheat industry are to be commended for this result, but in the rather limited area in the allocation of special quotas the situation is far from satisfactory. The first two grounds of appeal in section 34 relate to appeals arising out of special circumstances where the grower's deliveries of wheat in the six-year quota averaging period were diminished for some particular reason. It is fair to say that this portion of the appeal system has been satisfactory because it deals with straight-out mathematical formulae, and therefore no problems have arisen. However, in regard to appeals on financial grounds or on the ground of heavy financial commitment there were 2,700 applicants, 1,100 of whonl were successful. This means that there were 1,600 unsuccessful appeals.


I have no doubt that other members who represent wheat-growing electorates-Mr. Gross, Mr. Granter and others-have shared my experience of recent weeks when I received large numbers of letters from unsuccessful applicants. The real problem is that the criteria or the bases upon which decisions were made as to whether one applicant was successful and the next one unsuccessful, are not clear. This has brought about an unsatisfactory situation in the wheat industry because, as Mr. Swinburne has pointed out, it is difficult for members of Parliament and others interested in the wheat industry to satisfy persons who ask why their appeals were unsuccessful. The explanation lies in the interpretation of the Act by the Wheat Quota Review Committee which has placed a very narrow interpretation on the term "heavy financial commitment."

So far as I can ascertain, the Wheat Quota Review Committee considered that a heavy financial commitment was one which was urgent and had to be met in the near future. To illustrate what I mean, there are plenty of cases in which wheat growers' mortgages or other commitments, such as bank overdrafts, are of a long-term nature and there is no actual committal to a repayment programme. Such commitments were not considered as being urgent, and many appeals on this ground were unsuccessful. Applicants who had urgent financial commitments, say, in March or June of this year or early next year, were by and large treated reasonably well. As a result of this differentiation in regard to what is a heavy financial commitment, there is a group of unsuccessful applicants.

I assure you, Mr. President, and other honorable members that in many cases the fact that these growers have not received a special quota will mean the difference between survival and bankruptcy. I make that statement seriously. because I am aware of dozens of cases-no doubt other members have a similar experience-in which wheat

growers will be forced out of the industry, not because of any action of their own but purely and simply because it has become necessary in the Australian wheat industry to have this quota system. Members of the Country Party are concerned at this situation and consider that, even at this late stage, some action should be taken to review the unsuccessful applications for special quotas.

The Hon. K. S. GRoss.-Is Mr. Anthony concerned, too?

The Hon. S. R. McDONALD.-If Mr. Gross knows what is going on in the wheat industry, he will notice that the South Australian and New South Wales wheat industries, as aresult of interstate deliveries, owe the Victorian quota about 357,000 bushels. Members of the Country Party are suggesting to the Minister, the Wheat Quota Review Committee and the Victorian Farmers Union that here is one possible way in which tn-is admittedly small amount of wheat could be used to meet some of these applications for special quotas. I believe this could be done under the appropriate section of the Wheat Marketing Act.

. The sitting was suspended at 6.24 p.m. until 8.2 p.m.

The Hon. S. R. McDONALD.Prior to the suspension of the sitting for dinner I indicated that my concern about the allocation of special quotas of wheat was that the Wheat Quota Review Committee had placed too narrow an interpretation on the term " heavy financial commitment". It is not too late for the committee to review the unsuccessful appeals with a view to utilizing the quota of 357,000 bushels of wheat owing to Victoria from New South Wales and South Australia.

Mr. Gross has stated that the international situation may change because of climatic conditions, but I do not regard that as a realistic approach. An examination of the amount of wheat in storage throughout the world and the fact that the market is diminishing indicate that in the future


less wheat will be grown in Australia than in the past. Mr. Todd suggested that we should donate or sell wheat to undeveloped countries. The problem is that those countries are not short 'Of wheat or starch foods; the shortage is of high protein foodstuffs, such as milk.

I was surprised that Mr. Todd did not outline what the Australian Labor Party would do to overcome the problems facing rural industry because Mr. Grassby, the Federal member for Riverina, and other members of the Labor Party in the Federal sphere have expressed their views on the subject. Therefore, I thought Mr. Todd would outline the policy of the Labor Party as it concerns the wheat industry in Victoria.

I support the remarks of my Leader, Mr. Swinburne, concerning the need to make the Wheat Quota Committee and the Wheat Quota Review Committee responsible to the Minister of Agriculture. At present both organizations are required to supply the Minister with information if he makes a request for it. If the two committees were made responsible to the Minister -I am sure the grower organizations would favour this-there would be a much better relationship with the industry.

The four main amendments contained in the Bill are necessary and are urgently required by the industry. Therefore, members of the Country Party support them. .

The Hon. B. P. DUNN (NorthWestern Province) .-As· I represent a large number of wheat grpwers, I should like to make some comments on the amendments contained in the Bill. Many traditional wheat growers in the Wimmera and the Mallee have been hard hit by the introduction of quotas for wheat. I have received over ·50 letters from growers who are in stringent economic circumstances. Many of them will be unable to recover from this financial stringency and will therefore be forced out of the industry unless assistance is forthcoming. I shall concentrate my remarks on this point.

I have been informed that 1,600 growers who appealed to the Wheat Quota Review Committee on the grounds of financial hardship received no extra quotas to enable them to carry on during this awkward period. Apparently there were a number of reasons for this. One was that the amount of wheat available to appellants was allocated too heavily in the first instance, with the result that there was insufficient wheat for all applicants. In the second place it appears that many growers who were in a serious ·financial plight received no additional quotas and were virtually cut off from receiving assistance. This has caused a great deal of concern and many of the growers so affected have brought their cases to me in the hope that I could assist them. It is my belief tha t our aim should be to retain as many traditional wheat growers in the industry as we can for as long as possible. Any grower who is forced out of the industry will go out as a broken man. Land prices have decreased by 50 per cent and the market for second-hand machinery is heavily depressed. Many of the growers whose appeals for extra quotas were rejected have sound cases for assistance. 'I urge that their cases be reconsidered.

Mr. McDonald has indicated that wheat which was owing to Victoria from South Australia and New South Wales could be made available to the Victorian growers with a view to assisting them. We must attempt to assist growers who have been unsuccessful with their appeals and we must endeavour to eliminate the anomalies in the wheat marketing system to ensure that a similar situation does not arise in the future.

I believe the amendments contained in the Bill will bring about a more equitable distribution of quotas to a larger number of growers and it is necessary that this should occur to ease the financial hardship being sufferE~d by these growers. Therefore, I agree with the proposed amendments.


The first amendment more clearly defines the grounds upon which a grower may appeal by ind~catir;tg that any farmer whose economIC eXIstence is threatened by the introduction of wheat quotas will be able to apply for financial assistance. Many wheat growers have been disturbed when they have discovered that farmers who are not entirely dependent on wheat growing as a :primary ~~urce of income have receIved addItIOnal quotas. I am sure ~~at was pot .the intention of the ongmal legIslatIOn. One of the amendments will prevent such people from appealing to the Wheat Quota Committee for. add~tional allocations because It wIll place a limit on the amount of ,:",heat which can be allocated to a particular grower. Therefore, it is an important amendment. It will also achieve a more equitable distribution of 9u<;lta.s. The other amendments contamed m the Bill are along similar lines. The available quotas will be 4istributed amongst the growers more equitably, thereby assisting more growers to stay in the industry.

I agree with previous speaker~ that there is a need for the commIttees to be directly responsible to. t~e Minister of Agriculture. If thIS IS achieved members of Parliament will hav~ a means of finding out how the committees operate and how they can approach the committees with a view to finding out why some growers did not receive assistance. It has been impossible to obtain this informa tion in the past.

Many other steps could be taken to assist wheat growers and these will probably be discussed in this House in the future. For example, there is a need for long-term finance at low rates of interest to be made available to wheat growers. Such a scheme would assist farmers to pay some of the debts that they have incurred and thus enable them to stay on their properties.

I agree that the amendments contained in the Bill are necessary and that they will assist many

growers who are in fin.ancial d~ffi.culties as a result of the mtroductIOn of wheat quotas.

The Hon. A. K. BRADBURY (North-Eastern Province) .-1 support the remarks of my Leader, Mr. Swinburne, in bringing to the attention of the Minister of Agriculture the fact that members of Parliament who have approached the Wheat Quota Review Committee have been unable to obtain information from that committee. Members representing wheat-growing areas have received many requests from people who have lodged appeals for information on why their appeals were unsuccessful. In most cases they have sought a review of their applications, through their local members, bec,ause of their serious financial plight. I have received several requests from within my province from growers who wantto know why their appeals have been rejected, but my requests fo~ information have been treated WIth the utmost contempt. I have not received Oile reply to my representations. Members should be entitled to this information.

This Parliament will degenerate if the Wheat Quota Review Committee is allowed to ride roughshod over not only the wheat growers, but also members of Parliament. I support Mr. Swinburne in his request that the review committee be urgently requested and, if necessary, directed to reply to the representations of me.mbers of Parliament who are bemg brushed aside with the result that they are unable to supply adequate replies to constituents on whos~ behalf they have made representations.


The Bill was read a second time and committed.

Clause 1 was agreed to.

Clause 2 (Grounds for allocation of special quota).

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) .-All honorable members who participated in the second-reading debate indicated

Wheat Marketing' [COUNCIL.] , (Special Quotas)' Bill.

their general acceptance, of the three amending provisions of this Bill which were proposed by, the Victorian Farmers Union. I have taken a note of the criticisms that have been levelled at the Wheat 'Quota Review Committee as distinct from the Wheat Quota Committee. I am sure that all honorable members will agree that the members of the Wheat Quota Review CommitteeProfessor Foster and Mr. Bryant, who were recommended by the Victorian Farmers Union, and Mr. Moloney, the Chief Stipendiary Magistrate, who recently retired-were confronted with a difficult task in coping with the varied, problems that arose during the first season of the committee's operation. I have no doubt that these three gentlemen will do their utmost to facilitate the smooth working of the legislation.

I acknowledge that, when members seek information, it should be made 'available to them as far as possible. I do not know what was meant by the suggestion that the committee should "be responsible to the Minister". I do not want the appeals committee to be responsible to me so long as it operates within the legislation.

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE.-That is all we are seeking.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER.-I shall take up with the appeals committee the question of what can be done to meet the demands of members of Parliament on behalf of wheat growers. Honorable members who are familar with quota systems would realize that a number of difficult and complex problems exist. The committee has been confronted with a difficult task to work out, within a matter of two or three months, some kind of basis upon which to work. I pay a tribute to the committee for what it has achieved in its attempt to meet an acute situation that has arisen in the industry. I am not unmindful of the problems that have confronted the appeals committee. It should be appreciated that a committee which is established to operate

under broad guidelines faces a difficult task when it receives 7,100 appeals.. The members of the committee are mindful of their responsibilities. The remarks of honorable members tonight will be analysed by both the Wheat Quota Committee and the Wheat Quota Review Committee and I give an assurance that I will discuss with the committees the question of overcoming the difficulties that have arisen.

I am aware of the splendid work that has been undertaken by Mr. George O'Brien of the Law Department, Mr. Young, secretary of the Department of Agriculture, Mr. McCann, an officer of the department, and Mr. Judd of the Grain Elevators Board. These gentlemen have comprised an advisory group which has been in a position to deal with the legislation necessary for the wheat industry to try to overcome its problems. The same position exists in every State of the Commonwealth. Legislation of this type is not sought after, but it has been found necessary to meet the peculiar situation in which the industry finds itself at present. If we adopted a wholesale policy of quotas, licensing and appeals commit·tees for all primary industries, many problems would be encountered. Mr. Todd referred to this position and I am sure all honorable members hope that it will be a passing phase and that it will not be necessary to have legislation of this type for a long period. Because of scientific advances, there has been an overabundance of all types of primary products, not only in Australia, but throughout the world. '

The Hon. ARCHIBALD TODD.-It has produced a green revolution. In fact, some countries that previously produced nothing are now producing large quantities of primary products.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER.-I agree. The United Nations Organization has adopted a policy-rightly, I believe-of endeavouring to bring backward countries into production in


order that they might meet their own demands for food, and this has affected the traditional exporting countries.

The various suggestions that ,have been put forward tonight will be taken up with the Victorian Farmers Union and the review committee in order that this legislation may work as smoothly as possible.

The Hon. ARCHIBALD' TODD (Melbourne 'West Province).-I am sure honorable members accept the broad views expressed by the Minister of Agriculture regarding the difficulties of the Wheat Quota Review Committee and matters associated with it. However, I am concerned with the fact that Mr. Swinburne, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Dunn and Mr. Bradbury all complained about one particular matter. It appears that the review committee has not been particularly courteous towards members of Parliament who have submitted representations to it. This aspect should not be dismissed lightly; it should be brought to the notice of the members of the review committee, who may have a ready answer to the criticism that has been voiced. It is disturbing that a committee which has been established by Parliament should act discourteously towards members.

_ I accept the Minister's assurances on the other matters that were raised during the second-reading debate. Members can also accept the honorable gentleman's assurance that he will direct to the attention of the review committee the fact that complaints have been made regarding the disregard of the common rules of courtesy towards members of Parliament.

The Hon. S. R. McDONALD (Northern Province).-The remarks -of Mr. Swinburne and other members of the Country Party should not be regarded as a personal reflection on or criticism of individual members of the Wheat Quota Review Committee, but rather as criticisms of the legislation under which the committee

operates. It is fair to say that the manner in which the committee is constituted under the legislation has brought about this atmosphere of secrecy and inaccessibility. The members of the various committees have performed excellent work under difficult circumstances having regard to the fact that they were confronted with this urgent legislation last year and the time during which they could act was limited. If the legislative provisiOn under which the committee is constituted could be amended, the committee would be more approachable.

I was surprised that the only contribution on the question by Mr. Gross, the Liberal Party's expert on wheat, was an inaccurate and unjust reflection on the Federal Minister for Primary Industry during the week before the election campaign.

The Hon. K. S. GROSS.-It was reported.

The Hon. A. K. BRADBURY.Inaccura tely.

The Hon. S. R. McDONALD.-It was reported by the Edenhope Agricultural Bureau, and I have it on good authority from three men who were present at the interview that it was a complete distortion of Mr. Anthony's remarks. I think Mr. Gross has done a Federal Minister an injustice. I am sure the Minister of Agriculture will agree with me that Mr. Anthony is a responsible and capable Minister.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) .-1 thought I had left no doubt in the minds of honorable members that I gave an assurance that I would take up this matter with the quota committee and with the appeals committee, being mindful of what has been said tonight, in an endeavour to overcome criticisms which may be levelled against it.

The clause was agreed to, as was the remaining clause.

The Bill was reported to the House without amendment, and passed through its remaining stages.

22 Joint Select Committee [COUNCIL.] (Meat Industry) Bill.

JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE (MEAT INDUSTRY) BILL.

This Bill was received from the Assembly and, on the motion of the Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture), was read a first time.

JOINT SELECT COMMITTEE (ROAD SAFETY) BILL.

This Bill was received from the Assembly and, on the motion of the Han. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture), was read a first time.



That this Bill be now read a second time. The purpose of this measu,re is well known to honorable members. The· reenactment of the Act is necessary to enable the Meat Industry Committee to continue its investigations. Until this measure is passed, the committee which was constituted some ye~rs ago, cannot proceed with its activities. The Bill merely carries into effect a decision of this Parliament which was made some years ago.

The Hon. D. G. ELLIOT (Melbourne Province).-The Labor Party supports this measure with a great deal of pleasure. Having been a member of the Meat Industry Committee, J pay tribute to each and every member of it. The committee has brought down two unanimous reports which, unfortunately, have not been acted upon by the Government to the extent to which the committee would have liked.

It has become apparent that some of the findings of the committee are having an effect in Victoria. Clause 4 of this Bill outlines the mandate of the committee, and empowers it to investigate livestock killing and chilling freezing, packing, labelling, transpo~ting and selling facilities with respect to meat for human consumption. In Queensland, New South Wales New Zealand, and Victoria, the co~mittee has done a fine job and

I have had pleasure in being a member of it. Sub-paragraph (v) of paragraph (a) of clause 4 refers to the control of livestock selling centres, their capacity and location in relation to such facilities and the methods of selling livestock presently used. Bearing in mind that the Governments of the United States of America 'and Canada have imposed a ban on the importation of mutton, it seems to me that we must be ruthless in our examination of this problem so far as clean stock is concerned. During its many sittings a submission was made to the committee that there should be some rationalization of stock selling centres in Victoria. I think this proposal has now become more necessary than ever. It is necessary to bring clean stock into the abattoirs, and at the present time there are too many stock yards in which the stock get very dirty. This will create many problems in the marketing of meat for export.

The committee has now embarked on an investigation of the pet food industry. I wish the committee well and trust that it will not be one which has been formed merely to waste time but one whose opinions are heeded. The deliberations of the committee have saved this State millions of dollars.

The Hon. S. R. McDONALD (Northern Provine-e) .-The Country Party supports this measure, which provides for the appointment of a Joint Select Committee to examine various aspects of the meat industry in this State. The fact that a ban has been placed on the importation of Australian mutton into the United States of America and Canada, and tha t a ban has been placed on unclean livestock in saleyards by meat operators in Victoria, indicates that much more investigation of the industry is required. The results of these investigations set important guidelines e-oncerning abattoir hygiene and meat inspection. The Country Party is more directly interested in the meat industry than other parties because

Joint Select Committee [17 JUNE, 1970.] (Meat Industry) Bill. 23

of its association with it, and its members support the measure. 1 agree with Mr. Elliot that the c'Ommittee, which is under the able chairmanship of Mr. Gleeson, has made a worthwhile c'Ontribution to the meat industry in Victoria and will continue to do 'So.


The Bill was read a second time and c'Ommitted.

Cfause 1 was agreed to.

Clause 2 (Appointment of Joint Committee) .

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) .-The reports submitted by this Joint Select Committee are under consideration at the present time. The attitude of the Government towards this question was mentioned during the election campaign. 1 consider that the whole question of the standard of killing works and the transfer of inspectors from the Department of Health to the Department of Agriculture should be examined. I do not wish the Committee to think that these reports are being neglected. This is a most important matter because what is happening in the world concerning meat standards could have drastic effects on this country in future years, and the Government is mindful of the need to bring these works to the highest possible standard to avoid the loss of a great deal of business.

The Hon: D. G. ELLIOT (Melbourne ProvInce) .-1 thank the Minister for his remarks. I should like to add that the committee's preliminary report on the Newmarket abattoirs was one that the Government did not see fit t'O act upon. I am prepared to admit that since. the abattoirs were taken over by Protean Enterprises Pty. Ltd. they have been operated successfully. The fact that they have been ~uccessfully run by private enterprIse seems to be an indictment against municipal control. I hope the Government bears in mind that we need first-class service abattoirs

in this State for small wholesalers and exporters.

The clause was agreed to, as were the remaining clauses.


CONSOLIDATED REVENUE (SUPPLY-JULY TO SEPTEMBER,

1970) BILL. This Bill was received from the

Assembly and, on the motion of the Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture), was read a first time.


The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture).-I move-

That this Bill be now read a second time. The purpose of this Bill is well known to honorable members. It will re-enact legislation so that the Select Committee on Road Safety may continue its operati'Ons. The committee has already made three or four reports to Parliament. Some matters in those reports have been dealt with and other matters are under consideration. The Bill needs no further explanation, and I commend it to the House.

The Hon. J. M. WALTON (Melbourne North Province).-The Labor Party supports this Bill, the effect of which will be the reappointment of the Road Safety Committee for a further three years. What the Minister of Agriculture said is correct. During the three years since its first appointment, the committee has produced four reports, all of which have been important to people interested in saving lives on the roads. Those reports have dealt with the roadworthiness of motor vehicles, an investigation into the desirability of the compulsory fitting and wearing of seat belts, aspects of drug and alcohol factors, and the points demerit system.

It is also true that the Government has acted on parts of some of those reports, most recently in relation

24 Joint Select Committee [COUNCIL.] (Road Safety) Bill.

to the points demerit system. However, I would be remiss in my duty as a past member of the Road Safety Committee if I did not direct the attention of the Government -to the fact that other very important aspects of road safety are dealt with in reports of the committee which, if acted upon, would have a material effect in reducing the toll of death and injury on the roads. I particularly refer to the compulsory wearing of seat belts. In my opinion, the evidence supporting this proposal was overwhelming. Any Government which has the courage to introduce legislation in accordance with the' committee's recommendations on this subject will bring about a reduction of. the' road toll by 50 per cent-and that is a conservative estimate. Such legislation would prevent 50 per cent of the deaths and 50 per cent of the injuries which occur on our roads, perhaps even more.

The Road Safety Committee took its job seriously. Tonight, Mr. Elliot paid a tribute to the members of the Meat Industry Committee, and I pay a tribute to the members of the Road Safety Committee over the past three years, particularly to one who ~ill not be on th.e committee in future, because of his defeat in the recent elections, Mr. Ray Buckley. In a short period, the members of the committee have made a substantial contribution to road safety, something which is dear to the hearts of members of Parliament and of great interest to the community in general.

The reports of accidents over the past week-end indicate that the situation is still bad. The Chief Secretary, Sir Arthur Rylah, made an appeal to road users, and the Police Department announced that there would be a blitz on the roads, but these had little effect; there were far too many people killed and injured. The Government is acting correctly in taking steps to reappoint the committee. Apart from the matters dealt with in the four reports already submitted to Parliament, the committee has partly considered many other important aspects

The Hon. J. M. Walton.

of road safety. On many of these, evidence has been obtained from overseas. The stage has been reached when reports can be made on some of these matters. I look forward during the next three years to reports from the committee, similar to those already presented, which will bring about the state of affairs we all desire.

The Hon. C. A. MITCHELL (Western Province).-The Country Party supports this Bill. I was fortunate to serve for a short period on the Road Safety Committee, and it was a real education to me. It seems that alcohol is the cause of most deaths on the road and that' we are not tackling this problem. I am concerned that innocent peopl~ are being killed day by day. Many motorists kill themselves, but innocent people also suffer. Even before a report on the subject is made~ the Government should examine the problem and do something about it. I commend the members of the committee, who have been wonderful to work with, and the work which the committee has done, but all parties and all citizens should give attention to the very important aspects of road safety which I have mentioned.

We are sometimes prepared to pass legislation 'which will prevent 2 per cent of accidents, but we are not prepared to pass legislation which would save 50 per cent of the victims. If we were prepared to face up to the real reason why people die on the roads, legislation to do something about it would be passed by this Parliament. We should see what countries overseas are doing about penalties for drunken drivers. It must be recognized by the people generally, as well as by Parliamentarians, that it is criminal for people to drive while under the influence of liquor.' The committee has been doing a wonderful job and it has my wholehearted support.


The Bill was read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages.

Consolidated Revenue (Supply-July [17 JUNE, 1970.] to September,1970) Bill. 25

CONSOLIDATED REVENUE (SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES

1 S.s9-70) BILL. This Bill was received from the

Assembly and, on the motion of the Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture), was read a first time.


1970) BILL. The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER

(Minister of Agriculture) .-1 move-That this Bill be now read a second time.

The Supply Bill now before the House is to provide for the expenditure requirements of departments for the initial three months of the financial year 1970-71.

Last December Parliament passed the Appropriation Act, which provided the authority for expenditure from Consolidated Revenue up to 30th June, 1970. The Government proposes that after Parliament has granted further Supply and has approved the Supplementary Estimates which will be introduced today, both Houses will adjourn until the spring, when the Budget for 1970-71 will be brought in. The Supply Bill now before the House therefore covers the period from the end of June to the time when the Budget will be introduced.

The amount included in the Supply schedule is $139.511 million. This is the amount estimated to be necessary to meet expenditure requirements under the individual votes for the months of July, August, and September, 1970, on the basis of the continuation of existing services. No provision has been made for any additional expenditure arising from new policy decisions. These matters must await the introduction of the 1970-71 Budget. 1 commend the Bill to the House.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH ~Doutta Galla Province) .-The Opposition intends to support the Bill. An election was held recently and there is no reason to make any political ·issue at present or to delay

the passage of the Bill by prolonged debate. The Minister has stated that a sum of $139.511 million will be required for the next three months. Although 1 cannot claim to be old, 1 can almost remember the time when that sum was the total amount of the Budget, but this is an indication that, with changing times, the value of money has also changed.

On behalf of the Labor Party, I congratulate members of the Government party who have been elected to the Ministry, particularly Mr. Chandler, who has been reappointed Leader of the House. 1 congratulate Mr. Hamer on. his appointment as Deputy Leader, and Mr. Byrne on his appointment as Minister of Public Works. In wishing Mr. Byrne well I speak not as a member of the Opposition but as a Victorian who is very interested, as many other Victorians are, in the development of this Stat·e, where much work remains to be done.

To you, Mr. President, I also extend congratulations. I know that you will continue to maintain supreme control of this House, as you have done in the past with a great measure of kindness and courtesy, which honorable members appreciate.

The question of voting hours at elections has been raised, and I suggest that the Government give consideration to this matter. 1 do not wish to appear truculent on this point, but the question has been debated at conferences of the Labor Party and resolutions in regard to the alteration of voting hours have been carried. Probably that question also has been discussed by the Country Party, together with the matter of Saturday voting, and I understand that that party is in favour of an alteration in the voting hours. No doubt it has also been discussed within the Liberal Party. The Government should consider the matter and 1 am certain that the proposed alterations would receive unanimous support in both Chambers.

1 also suggest that the Government take cognizance of the method operating in Tasmania in regard to

26 Consolidated Revenue (Supply-July [COUNCIL.] to September, 1970) Bill.

the indication of party affiliations of candidates. In that State how-to-vote instructions are placed in the voting booth showing how a person may vote for the Liberal, Labor 'Or X party. There is no need for people to, stand outside the polling booth handing out how-to-vote cards, nor do candidates need to go to considerable expense in the printing and distribution of those cards. This information shown on the ballot-paper' also would be of great advantage to those people who need to cast absentee votes. A Gallup poll has indicated that only about 8 per cent of people know who their local memoer is, but 8 per cent represents a large number of constituents. I t is no disgrace when it can be said that 92 per cent of the constituents do not know their member, but for the sake of that number a suitably printed ballot-paper would indicate, particularly to an absentee voter, the parties represented by the various candidates. I suggest that the Government should examine these matters as well as the question of voting hours.

Mr. Gross castigated members on this side of the 'H;'Ouse on the subject of encouragement of people to disobey the law. When a law is bad people have a right to protest. The worst thing in life is not that bad men do evil, but that good men d'O nothing. If good men are 'to do something, they must protest. In defence of those who are protesting with such severity at present and those wh'O are encouraging them, I suggest that the Government give consideration to the question of legality of wars. If a country engages in war and conscripts men to fight in other countries, whether it is in defence of freedom 'Or some other cause--

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-Order! I permitted discussion on these lines earlier, but it is a little out of context in relation to the measure before the House. It is a Federal matter to which the honorable member is referring and he must

The Hon. J. M. Tripovich.

not take it too far. I permitted a certain amount of comment in this regard by Mr. Gross, but I suggest that Mr. Tripovich should curtail his remarks on this subject.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.I thank you, Mr. President, for your guidance. However, I suggest that before a country conscripts youth it should declare war.

A great deal was said during the election campaign in regard to housing, education,- health and transport. Certain promises were made and the Government has been re-elected. I do not believe a mandate has' been given to the Government by the people because, whilst the Democratic Labor Party agrees with the Labor Party on many matters of social welfare, education, and so on, it gives its preferences to the Liberal Party.-

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE.-The Liberal Party is in the same position in relation to the Country Party.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-It is the first time that the Country Party has given its preferences to the Labor Party, and possibly it will not do it again. However, the Government has a responsibility in regard to the application of loan moneys and it -must consider what is best for the State. The growth of high-rise housing developments in industrial areas for people in the low-income group is a bad policy and should be examined.' High-rise developments are concrete jungles and are not suitable for the housing of families with young children, who are required to play within the area provided for entry to the flats. It is a long way for children to go downstairs and some use the lifts for joy riding. Parents of these children are caused a great deal of concern. It would be more suitable if high-rise flats were used by people with older families.

Mr. Granter referred to the condition of playgrounds in -some of the older schools. I suggest that honorable members should look at some of the schools in the inner industrial areas where there are virtually no

Consolidated Revenue (Supply-July [17 JUNE, 1970.] to September, 1970) Bill. 27

playgrounds. The Government is developing high-rise flats in the inner industrial areas where there are only small schools. These schools previously housed possibly 500 or 600 children, but with the development of the high-rise flats perhaps 1,000 children are now attending in the same area.

The Hon. H. M. HAMILToN.-There were more people there twenty years ago.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-I disagree, and I instance Fitzroy and Collingwood.

The Hon. H. M. HAMILToN.-In South Melbourne the population fell, but it is rising again.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-A lot of South Melbourne was pulled down for the development of industry and construction of a freeway. Previously I have quoted figures showing the falling populations in inner suburban areas. Some fourteen years ago, the Fitzroy subdivision enrolment was approximately 14,000. At the same time, the census' count was in the vicinity of 19,000 souls in that area. When the electorate enrolment dropped from 14,000 to 8,000, the number of persons in the area fell from 19,000 to 16,000. While some of the areas had been developed a great influx of new Australians had occurred and despite the reduction in the enrolment the numbers were not down in the same proportion.

Out of loan funds the Government will be required to make provision for education, which is a tremendous responsibility. Honorable members on this side of the House are determined that the money should be wisely spent in the areas where it is most needed. This is a factor which the Government must examine carefully. Per capita grants are not good enough unless they are made in terms of need.

I refer now to hospitals. Although the fact has not been pulicized, there are hospital wards in which beds are lying idle and indeed have been closed down for some time. When considering the application of loan

funds and general revenue, the Government should determine to get these hospital wards open and operating. There must be ways and means of doing this. If it is possible for the . Government to build freeways and proceed with other big developments throughout the State, it must also examine the social services which are available to the people.

The Opposition trusts that the matters I have mentioned will receive the attention of the Government in the interests of the people of this Sta teo This is my challenge to this Parliament and I hope these achievements will be realized during the life of this Parliament.

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE (North-Eastern Province) .-The election has been held and the Government has received a mandate from the electors to carryon the administration of the State. Now the Governmen t is seeking Supply for three months until the Budget and the legislative programme for the coming year are introduced to Parliament. The Country Party' supports the measure.

Before proceeding further, I ]Oln with Mr. Tripovich in congratulating you, Mr. President, on again occupying the presidential chair. We have all enjoyed y'Our term as President and we lo'Ok forward to the same privilege in the years ahead.

To the Leader of the House and his Ministers, the Country Party also offers congratulations. Mr. Hamer has now been promoted t'O Deputy Leader and I hope that he does not have to wait fifteen years for further promotion. We are pleased that our old friend Mr. Byrne, who has been on the back bench f'Or so long and has been so contentious with interjections, has now been elevated t'O the M'inistry. We c'Ongratulate him and wish him well in his new office as Minister of Public Works. Over the years, Mr. Byrne has been a fair critic with his interjections and with his legal training he has been able to penetrate the armour of some

28 Consolidated Revenue (Supply-July [COUNCll...] to September, 1970) Bill.

honorable members. As a Minister, he will be on the spot and henceforth we shall be able to have shots at him.

I also congratulate Mr. Tripovich and Mr. Walton on' their appointment as Leader and Deputy Leader of their party. We wish them well and trust that the same courtesies that have always been extended to us by the Labor Party will continue. In return, I promise the courtesies from the Country Party to the Labor Party and to the Government. I regret that myoId friend, Mr. Galbally, has been put down the end of the bench. Over the years, we have had a lot in comm'On. On many occasions we have been together 'On issues and on just as many others we have been opposed to one another. However, at all times a great fellowship or friendship has existed. I trust that his troublesome time will soon come to an end.

Many matters could be debated on this occasion, but I do not intend to delay the House. . An election has been held, we have all gone around the State telling our story, and some of it has been effective and some of it has not. The Oountry Party did not seem to have many friends. Whether it went the wrong way about it or whether others issued better propaganda remains to be seen. I assure the Government that the Country Party is not downhearted. It should be remembered that numbers are not always c'Ounted in relation to happenings in this House. Over many years, the Government of the day ha:; accepted amendments submitted from this side of the House during debates on Bills. Members of the Country Party will continue to make contributions and endeavo.ur to i,mprove the legislation which comes before' the House. If we fail, it will be so much the worse, but ever~ member of the Country Party will be' watching· the interests of the people whom he represents and will endeavour to defeat anything which he believes is against the interests of those people or the State of Victoria.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER.-I take it that you will be watching the numbers.


The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE.I have been watching the numbers for .24 years and I shall continue to do ~o. I am sure that I shall be. ably supported in this regard by my deputy. We shall carry out our duties as legislators and do our utmost to ensure that the best possible legislation is passed.

As Mr. Tripovich has said, during. our travels around the State in connection with the election campaign we found many problems. At election time, honorable members are enabled to study some of the problems existing in electorates other than their own. I was not very pleased with what I found in some parts of the State. Certain areas are in need of urgent attention, particularly in t.he field 'Of education. At a later ·stage, my colleagues and I will take the opportunity to raise these matters and endeavour to induce the Minister of 'Public Works to improve the conditions which exist in some school buildings.

The housing 'problem is closely related to State development. I am pleased that once again this House has the Minister of State Development amongst its members because housing is a most important factor in the development of the State. I endeavoured to find some gleam of hope in His Excellency's Speech earlier today in relation to what the Government intends to do about the development of our country areas. Unfortunately, I was not successful.

In travelling around the State during " the election campaign, I found that one of the greatest problems concerned industries which had been established in years past to use a local product and local labour. I have never liked the word " decentralization" because it has proved to be a stumbling block in our thinking concerning the development of the State. If one thinks in terms of State development rather than decentralization, one thinks of the requirements of the whole of the State. Several categories of industry have been

Consolidated Revenue (Supply-July [17 JUNE, 1970.] to' September, 1970) Bill. 29:

disadvantaged and I have received representations from some within my own area as well as from some outside it. Similar representations have been received by other honorable members. These industries feel that they are being forgotten.

One industry which is outstanding in this regard is the sawmilling industry, with which Mr. Todd has been closely associated over many years. This industry now finds itself competing with other industries which have been taken from the city and developed in country areas. The products of these industries are also used in the building trade, but they receive various forms of Government assistance as decentralized industries whilst the timber industry, which is naturally based in the country, has been seriously neglected. As the competing industries receive privileges which are not available to the timber industry, that industry now seeks some of the same privileges with regard to transport instead of having to comply with conditions that have existed for some years.

I have received several letters which I intend to place before the Minister of State Development and the Minister of Transport because this matter should be closely and seriously examined. The timber industry is finding it more and more difficult to compete because it is now moving into the outer reaches of the State and its transport costs are rising. To keep the industry solve.nt and able to compete with other industries that are now being developed in competition, the Government should grant some relief. Up to date, the sawmills have had to finance the installation of power. All these things are adding to their costs, and the Minister of State Development should consider assisting the industry throughout the length and breadth of the State.

Other industries have started off as small engineering works and, because of the enthusiasm and the drive of their managers, they have become

what might be termed major industries in the community .. These industries are also being placed at a disadvantage because they do . not receiVe the privileges which are extended to decentralized industries. One industry within this category is situated within the province of the Minister of State Development. It is A. F. Gason Pty. Ltd. in Ararat. This firm is disappointed that after starting in a small way, and developing into a major industry, it is now trying to carry on without receiving the privileges of road transport that' are available to many other industries of a similar nature which come under the definition of decentralized industries. This firm manufactures and fits cabins on tractors and othe~ road machinery.

During an election campaign when one moves round the country, one finds anomalies that exist. I bring this matter before the House because industries such as the one I have mentioned and the timber industrywhich is carried on mainly in Gippsland and the north-east part of the State-are at a great disadvantage in relation to transport. Consideration should be given to the assistance and the freedom of transport which might be granted to these industries in transporting goods in parts of the State where railways do not exist.

I could discuss other subjects, but I consider that the development of the State is tied closely to the provision of housing. I hope the Minister and the Housing Commission will give further consideration to the commission's existing policy. In this connection, I agree with what Mr. Tripovich has said. I have had a long association with the Director of Housing, Mr. Gaskin, who is well aware of my views in relation to what I term monstrosities. . The sooner some assistance is given to country industries in respect of their housing problems the sooner some of the difficulties that are developing in this city will be lessened. His Excellency the Governor mentioned that large sums of money are to be expended on the city underground


railway and on transport facilities in the Melbourne area. I contend that some of this money would be better spent in providing housing in country towns.

An additional 100 houses could be ?ccupied as fast as they were built In most of the larger country cities. This policy was adopted in the 1950s and I consider that a similar procedure could be followed with great effect in the 1970s. However, under the existing system applications must be made to the Housing Commission before houses are provided. I fail to see how an industry can become established in the country without any security of housing for its employees who, if they desire Housing Commission accommodation, must sign an application form. I maintain that housing should be provided first; industry would then be enabled to become established. Therefore, I appeal to the Government to reverse its present policy under what is called decentralization and consider the development of the whole State. If this were done, many of the problems in the metropolitan area' would be obviated.

Whilst travelling through country towns during the election campaign, I found that in almost every case the greatest problem confronting country industries was the lack of housing. With the appointment of a new Minister of State Development, the Government should get on with the job of developing the whole of the State. Of course, nothing can stop the further development of the metropolitan area, but the Government should be doing more to encourage the development of country areas in order to give security to the residents. If the Minister gave consideration to this matter before the preparation of the Budget, it might be possible to take some action for the betterment of the State as a whole.

Members of our party support the measure. When the Budget is brought down, honorable members will have a better picture of the problems which must be faced in the future. I assure


the Government that, as we have in the past, members of the Country Party will co-operate in the speedy passage of legislation, although we will debate it fully. We will probably agree on occasions with the views expressed by members of the Opposition, and at other times we will disagree. We will proceed as we have in the past in this House, and I trust that this will continue to be the best debating Chamber of any Parliament in the' Commonwealth.

The Hon. ARCHIBALD TODD (Melbourne West Province) .-Both Mr. Tripovich and Mr. Swinburne referred to the problem of housing, which is associated with the question of social welfare. I wish to deal with two aspects of the housing problem.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-In view of the fact that there is not an item covering housing, I suggest that Mr. Todd should not go too far into that subject but should merely touch on it in passing.

The Hon. ARCHIBALD TODD.-I intend to speak about one of the features associated with housing, that is, the question of rent control. At present, in many parts of the inner industrial areas, exorbitant rents are charged for houses which are in a decrepit state and perhaps anything up to 100 years old. Cases are brought to the notice of local members that rents as high as $20 a week are being charged to the unfortunate persons who have to live in these properties. If an entrepreneur builds a block of new flats and charges $20 a week for a flat with all modern conveniences, . one does not object. However, it. is found that for a small hovel in a sub-standard street some unfortunate tenants have to pay up to $20 a week. If the tenant has recourse to the Metropolitan Fair Rents Board and his rent is reduced, the landlord promptly obtains an order to secure possession of the premises and the following tenant has to pay the same high rent. Therefore, I ask the Government to tighten up the rent control provisions so that these individuals will not be able to batten on to the unfortunates


in the community. The Metropolitan Fair Rents Board should have pO,wer to prevent any person who receIves some relief from the board from being the victim of a greedy landlord.

One case that was brought to my notice concerned a foreign migrant who is the owner of a property such as I have described and who was charging $20 a week. He suggested to the unfortunate tenant that if she did not purchase meat from a butcher who also was a foreigner he would be compelled to increase her rent by $5. This is the kind of case that is brought to the notice of local members. I have had a long experience of the social welfare problems associated with these matters. Therefore, I ask the Government to tighten up rent control and to give the Metropolitan Fair Rents Board the power that it needs to have complete control over the activities of some landlords. Furthermore, in relation to unfortunate victims who are brought before the board, there should be inserted into the Landlord and Tenant Act a provision to enable a magistrate to grant a furtherextension of time after an eviction order has been made. If the tenant had not been long in occupation-say only six or seven years-he could be put out on fourteen days' notice, perhaps with a stay of 30 days. At present, it is practically hopeless for a husband and wife with a family of children to seek accommodation round the metropolitan area. By the time the eviction order was due to be executed, the family would not be able to obtain alternative accommodation. On one occasion, after approaches had been made to the Housing Commission, it was suggested that such families should be given the relief of perhaps an extra fortnight or month so that the commission could do something for them. However, the courts have said that it is not within their power to do that under the Landlord and Tenant Act. The courts have power to grant relief to protected tenants, but there are not many of them today.

This is a situation which should be remedied. In cases of hardship, the courts should be able to grant a further extension of time for the processing of the eviction order. If that were done, and rent control were tightened considerably, many social welfare problems would be alleviated.

The Hon. G. J. NICOL (Monash Province).-This Bill provides for the expenditure of almost $140 million. As I shall not be present during the Committee stage, I should like to refer briefly to an item which might be more properly dealt with then. From time to time-impertinently, it may seem-this House has seen fit to appoint Select Committees to examine and inquire into various matters. When a House of Parliament appoints such a committee, it seems to me to be quite improper that, in order properly to carry out the functions and duties imposed on them by the House, members of the committee should be out of pocket. I make a strong representation to the Government, not only to contemplate doing something but, in fact, to make it possible for members of such Select Committees to recover, not payment for the work they are doing, but merely out-of-pocket expenses. I suggest that this is an entitlement of Parliament and that it should be done to enable members to carry out the functions delegated to them.



Clause 1 was agreed to.

Clause 2 (Issue and application of $139,511,000) .

The CHAIRMAN (the Hon. G. J. Nicol).-I inform honorable m~mbers that while clause 2 is under consideration they may discuss the items listed in the divisions of the Supply schedule. I shall not call the items in groups. If any member wishes to speak to clause 2, he should indicate the items to which he relates his comments.


The Hon. G. J. O'CONNELL (Melbourne Province).-I refer to Division 17, Totalizator Administration. Tonight honorable members have heard about mandates given to the Government and 1 trust that the Government will use the mandate given to it to provide relief to people using the facilities of the Totalizator Agency Board. 1 have written to the Chief Secretary on many occasions about these matters and he pas replied to me, but the same problems still exist. Some branch managers work on commission and others work for wages, but at any branch, especi,llly on a Saturday, for half an hour to three-quarters of an hour prior to the first race, there are queues. The Totalizator Agency Board conducts a . big business; its turnover exceeds $200 million a year. Last year the commission to the Government was $10 million, plus. By that, 1 mean that the Government collected unpaid dividends and the fractions involved, and they amounted to a great sum.

1 have advocated reform for many years but the problems are as great as when 1 first mentioned them. 1 ask that my comments be directed to the attention of the Chief Secretary, who is the M'inister responsible for the administration of the Totalizator Agency Board, with the view of having these problems overcome for all time.

1 also suggest that· the 50 cents refund payable on some bets is just not good enough, and that it is time something was done about it. 1 have written to the Chief Secretary about this matter, and the problem will be examined, but at present nothing is being done. If these problems were overcome, 1 am sure that the poor 50 cents punter would be much happier and more contented.

The Hon. C. A. MITCHELL (Western Province) .-1 relate my remarks to Division 39, Education. 1 may be the first member to pass a few ideas to our new Minister of Public Works. 1 have two letters from the committee of the Branxholme school. The first, written in

1968, pOinted out that painting and other works were necessary. The school is in a shocking state. It should have been painted years ago; the spouting has great holes, and Overall it is deteriorating. What worries me is that another letter I received recently indicates that a new fence is to be erected at the sch'O'Ol even though the present fence would last for another ten years. This is a complete waste of money. The members of the committee of the school agree tha t the fence is all right and they do not mind if it is not touched, but because of neglect the school is falling to pieces.

I mention only this one school, but this state of affairs exists all over the State. The point is that money should n'Ot be wasted. It seems that what is important to a Government is not the money that is spent but the money that is wasted. In the running of a farm or a business, it is the manner in which money is spent that matters, and it is the way in which the people's money is spent that greatly concerns me. 1 should like the new Minister of Public Works to visit my electorate to see a few of the problems that exist there.

The Hon. G. J. O'CONNELL (Melbourne Province) .-:-1 refer to the plight of the citizens of Victoria today brought about by the inadequacy of the Police Force. Hold-ups have been occurr:ing at the rate of two or three a week, mainly at banks and branches of the Totalizator Agency Board. It is not safe to walk down Bridge Road, Richmond, with $10 in one's pocket. It seems strange that adequate police protection cannot be provided for the establishments to which 1 have referred. The welfare of the people should be a prime consideration. If an adequate Police Force is not maintained, how can the people be protected?

The Hon. D. G. ELLIOT (Melbourne Province) .-1 ask the Government to pay particular attention to the State Film Centre, which does a magnificent job. The work of this centre should be given more

~ Consolidated Revenue (Supply-July [17 JUNE, 1970.] to September, 1970) Bill. 33

publicity. The films available at the centre, which cover some fine .subjects, are efficiently cross-indexed, and cover a wide range of subjects. This fact should be made known more adequately than is the case at present. Earlier Mr. Tripovich referred to the sorry fact that possibly only 8 per cent of the electorate know their local member of Parliament. Similarly, few people know of the excellent facilities made available by the State Film Centre.

For a number of years I have consistently raised with the Minister of Education the question of the general maintenance of State schools throughout Victoria. If the situation was not so serious, it could be considered laughable that at so many schools the paint has been peeling off buildings for three or four years and this has been ignored because no priority for the work exists within the Public Works Department.

The Minister of Public Works and t.he Minister of Education should " buck" the system to obtain a more efficient liaison in relation to the building and maintenance of schools. At present the system is so unwieldy that it is laughable. Today, almost every State school in Victoria has a backlog of jobs to be done. A more simple procedure is needed and more co-operation should occur between the two departments concerned. The Public Works Department should have an internal maintenance system \\Tithin the Education Department and floating gangs should be engaged to carry out maintenance work. A liaison should exist between the Government and the schools and allocations of money up to a certain figure should be made to local committees so that small jobs can be undertaken on the spot.

The administration of the Education Department is now coming under close scrutiny, but so far as maintenance is concerned the Government is making itself a complete idiot. I know the Minister of Education believes that the maintenance situation is getting to a

Session 1970.-2

hopeless stage. Something must be done. An amount of $18 million is needed to cope with the immediate backlog of urgent jobs at State schools in Victoria. This is not good business.

State schools should come within the purview of the health authorities. Our children are precious and they should have adequate lavatory facilities, taps and a decent system of hygiene and maintenance. This is most important, and in this regard there should be a greater liaison between the Public Works Department and the Education Department.

I should also like to refer to animal health. Whilst I was in New Zealand with that magnificent committee, the Meat Industry Committee, I saw hydatid strips being used throughout the Dominion which proved effective in the control of that scourge. Tasmania has established control of this disease along almost identical lines to those existing in New Zealand. Victoria should examine this position. It has been often argued that, as we are .part of the mainland, the introduction of the suggested system would prove difficult. A start must be made with hydatid strips. I know that the Leader of the House would enthusiastically concur in my remarks and agree that we should get to the source of the trouble in relation to the mutton industry.

Referring to the Railway Department I should like to ask: What has happened to the club car on the Overland express? I thought Mr. Gross was somewhat somnolent in his reference to the wheat industry, but he will agree with my remarks in relation to the club car.

The Hon. K. S. GRoss.-We are waiting for the invitation to serve the first drinks on that car.

The Hon. D. G. ELLIOT.-That is so, but in this uncertain game of politics, we do not know how long we will be here. I made a promise that I would shout free drinks for all members of the Council on the first trip on the club car.


The CHAIRMAN (the Hon. G. J. Nicol).-Mr. Elliot will be given due notice of that event.

The Hon. M. A. CLARKE (Northern Province). - I congratulate Mr. Murray Byrne on his appointment as Minister of Public Works. I hope he will have a successful career. Honorable members have rightly criticized the maintenance problems existing at State schools. I make a practical suggestion to the Minister of Public Works which, if implemented immediately, will save a great deal of money.

When schools are constructed or additions are made, the spouting and guttering are painted immediately. Any farmer knows that, when galvanized iron is used in the erection of a shed, he is advised to leave it to weather for six or twelve months before painting. He is then advised to use an oxide or a rust-resisting paint. In the case of schools, I can quote numerous examples of paint peeling from galvanized iron after a very short time. The iron must then be cleaned and repaired before being repainted, involving the department in considerable cost. I appeal to the Minister of Public Works to ensure that the Public Works Department does not paint such material immediately, but leaves it for some time to weather.

The Hon. W. V. HOUGHToN.-1t does not need painting at all.

The Hon. M. A. CLARKE.-I agree that it is better left alone. My practical suggestion would save the department money. It would effect an economy which would be of great importance in the Public Works Department. I urge the Minister to look into this matter as soon as possible. The paint peels off almost immediately and requires frequent repairs, which are both extensive and expensive.

The Hon. G. J. O'CONNELL (Melbourne Province) .-1 congratulate Mr. Byrne on his appointment as Minister of Public Works, and I hope

I shall be able to get some work done by his department in my area. I appeal to the Minister in regard to the Richmond High School. The ground on which this school is located was allocated to the Government by the Richmond City Council for education purposes. At present the playing arena for the children is a quagmire. Only last week the council generously placed a couple of loads of screenings in the yard, but it cannot continue to do so. It is up to the Public Works Department to asphalt the playing area and I urge the Minister to give this matter prompt attention.

I refer now to the Railway Department and appeal to the Government to deal with the problem of unmanned stations in the metropolitan area. It is a disgrace that certain stations are not manned at night, despite the many protests made by various organizations, to which the Government has turned a deaf ear. I appeal to the Government to take action on this matter. There must be many people who could be employed to carry out the necessary duties.

I also direct attention to the condition of certain railway carriages. A few weeks ago, the Government announced a programme for building new trains. I point out that we already have some good trains, the blue Harris trains, which only require some paint. It is about time the Railway Department had this work carried out. The department has plenty of maintenance men who are capable of carrying out this work. The upholstery in some of these trains also needs repair and maintenance, and I suggest that attention be given to this also.

The Hon. H. A. HEWSON (Gippsland Province) .-1 wish to refer to Division 11, relating to State development. During my career as a member of Parliament, I have been vitally interested in the matter o~ Sta'te development, perhap1s because


I live in the centre of an area which has badly needed attention. The new Minister of State Development has stated that he has planned for a progressive programme. Today, State development is an important function of the Government. It revolves around many items. Throughout the State, development committees have been set up based on a decentralization programme. The Minister of State Development should have the authority and sufficient finance to utilize the natural resources in various areas so that greater benefits may result.

I do not know much about Gippsland - I only live there - but it possesses natural resources. I have said this before and I am sure it bears repeating. The natural resources of this State are the cheapest and basic ingredients for a decentralization programme. Under the control of the Minister of State Development, these resources should be utilized in the most economical manner. However, the decentralization which has taken place in relation to oil and gas has only brought about the enlargement of Melbourne. The building of a new port adjacent to Melbourne is not assisting decentralization in this State. The natural: resources are being drawn towards the metropolitan area and are not being taken by gravity, so to speak, towards the area where they should have gone, namely, through the Latrobe Valley towards the Gippsland coast, where a seaport could have been built for the effective handling of basic materials such as gas, oil, brown coal, timber, and so on. Other industries could have been developed around such a seaport.

I make a final appeal to the Government to do something about decentralization of the State, and not just talk about it. In the six years during which I have been a member of this Parliament, I have seen the number of business houses in Victorian country towns become fewer and fewer. Very few towns in the State can boast that they have increased their business

premises. Very few areas of Victoria can say that their rural population has increased. Country areas find themselves in a difficult position. If small farmers and small businessmen are to be phased out, something must be done to provide alternative employment for the people concerned in the areas in which they have always worked and lived. It is the role of the Minister of State Development to preserve these rural communities by encouraging industry to go into these areas, so that the people who are to be phased out of certain industries will have alternative employment for themselves and their families.

The Hon. ARCHIBALD TODD (Melbourne West Province).-I wish to refer briefly to Division 86 dealing with railways and ask that two matters be brought to the attention of the Railway Department. Firstly, I should like to know how long it will be before travellers on the St. Kilda and Port Melbourne lines receive better rolling-stock. I recall that many years ago the trains travelling on these lines were comprised of Tait cars, but whereas other lines have been given Harris trains and improved Tait cars, and there is even talk of newer developments, the St. Kilda and Port Melbourne lines have gone backwards and are using the old dog-box carriages, which are in a shocking condition. It is high time that consideration was given to the use of better rolling-stock than dog-box carriages on the St. Kilda and Port Melbourne lines. Recently, when an overseas liner berthed at Port Melbourne, a blue Harris train was run on that line and I am sure the local children did not know what it was.

The second matter I wish to raise relates to a question I asked some considerable time ago concerning the repair of the bridge at the intersection of City Road, Market Street and Ferrars Street, South Melbourne. For a number of years the bridge has been propped up from the footpath by three or four oregon beams.


I do not know what is wrong with the bridge, but it appears that the Railway Department will allow these oregon beams to remain in their present position until the railway system no longer exists. The time has come when the department should remedy the fault in the bridge and remove these unsightly beams.

The Hon. M. A. CLARKE (Northern Province.-I have noticed that the new Minister of Public Works has made careful notes of what has been said during this debate and I trust that, like all other Ministers, he will investigate the matters referred to. I shall relate my remarks to the painting of white lines on highways, which is an important factor in road safety. Recently I travelled on the Murray Valley Highway eastwards from Echuca during a thick fog. On portions of that road-miles in extent-there are no white lines marking the middle of the road. In some places dots appear at fairly long intervals, but these dots cannot be detected in a fog. Unfortunately, I did not, as I should have, telephone the engineer in charge of the Country Roads Board to point out the discrepancy and ask him to take immediate action. Approximately a week later during a thick fog a fatal head-on collision occurred on that stretch of road. I can sympathize with drivers of motor cars because in a thick fog it is impossible to see the sides of the road and one tends to rely on the white lines in the middle of the road.

The Hon. D. G. ELLIOT.-Is it not essential to have white guidelines on the sides of the road as well? That is standard practice in Tasmania.

The Hon. M. A. CLARKE.-I strongly support that contention. I wrote to the Country Roads Board suggesting this and in its answer the board stated that it did not know whether this was beneficial. As a driver of a motor car, I know that a white line on the side of the road is of tremendous assistance. When a new surface is put on a road, frequently it is some time before the

white line is replaced. When new construction work is undertaken, months elapse before the white lines are painted with the result that even the experienced motorist falls into a trap. He does not realize that reconstruction work has been undertaken and that the white lines have not been repainted. The result is that accidents happen.

A new system of road repair has been introduced. I do not know whether it is universal, but it is certainly common. The system is to spread gravel 1 inch deep on the road and in due course the cars going along the road brush the gravel to the sides of the road. This has happened for miles on the Northern Highway. When the gravel is on the road, no white line is visible. To discard white lines on main highways is asking for accidents to happen. I ask the Minister of Public Works to take this matter up with the Country Roads Board and to ensure that white lines are maintained, that dots are not used, that white lines are painted along the sides of highways, that white lines are painted on new construction work as soon as possible and that when gravel is spread on main sealed highways the white lines are not obscured.

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE (Minister of Public Works) .-1 thank honorable members for their generous and kind remarks in relation to my elevation to the Ministry. I am conscious of the tolerance that you, Mr. President, and honorable members have shown to new members and to new Ministers and I am looking forward to receiving that tolerance for a reasonable period of time. I am certainly aware of the real sense of responsibility that Ministers have shown to honorable members during the twelve years that I have been a member of this House and I shall endeavour to show the same sense of responsibility.

It appears that I shall have many customers concerning public works. During the debate, certain matters

Consolidated Revenue (Supplementary [17 JUNE, 1970.] Estimates 1969-70) Bill. 37

relating to the administration of the Chief Secretary and the Minister of Education were raised. However, so far as I am aware, there was no reference to housing or Aboriginal affairs. I am honest enough to say that I have a great deal to learn and I hope I shall always be prepared to learn something from honorable members. I have taken a note of the matters raised by Mr. Mitchell and' Mr. Elliot in regard to education and by Mr. Clarke and Mr. O'Connell in relation to other subjects. I assure them that I shall have these points investigated, if possible tomorrow, and furnish them with replies. Mr. Clarke raised an important matter and I am sure he will be delighted to know that as from today the Country Roads Board does not come within my jurisdiction. It is now the responsibility of the Minister for Local Government, but I am sure the honorable gentleman will give the points raised by Mr. Clarke serious consideration.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture). - The matters raised by Mr. Todd and Mr. Hewson will be given special consideration because this is their last opportunity to make representations in this House. Both honorable members have been an ornament to this Parliament. The other matters which have been raised will be given courteous and deep attention and replies will be furnished where they are warranted. If honorable members do not receive replies within a reasonable time, they should contact me and I shall ensure that the replies are expedited.

The clause was agreed to, as was the remaining clause.



1969-70) BILL. The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister

for Local Government) .-1 move-Tthatt Ithi,s Bill be now read ,a second ,time.

The Supplementary Estimates which I bring before the House cover two matters. Firstly, they cover the cost 'Of awards and determinations made since the Budget for 1969-70 was presented in September, 1969. The cost to the Budget of these awards and determinations this financial year is roundly $12.6 million, and a supplementary provision has been included under the individual votes involved in these additional payments.

Secondly, provision has been included to meet special payments made in December, 1969, to three colleges of advanced education to meet recurrent costs incurred by these colleges up to the close of the 1969 calendar year in excess of that provided for in the 'Original Budget provisions. The three colleges involved are the Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology, the Bendigo Institute of Technology and the Swinburne College of Technol'Ogy. The supplementary provision, which amounts to $376,456, is included under Division 38. The total amount included in the Supplementary Estimates is $12,982,'672.

As the statutory limit to the amount of expenditure which may be met froQm the Treasurer's Advance is $6 million, it has been necessary to bring before the House Supplementary Estimates prior to the close 'Of the financial year to obtain the additional appropriations involved in these matters. The most substantial increase in expenditure, which has arisen as a result of awards made since the Budget was introduced, relates to increased salary payments to employees in public hospitals and benevolent homes. Provision has been made for a supplem'entary contribution of $3.3 million to the Hospitals and Charities Fund to meet increased payments to these institutions to cover the cost of awards.

A supplementary provision of $2.97 million has been made under the votes providing for the Education Department to cover the CoQst in this sector of the Budget of awards and

38 Consolidated Revenue (Supplementary [COUNCIL.] Estimates 1969-70) Bill.

determinations made since September last. These awards apply to employees in three areas. Firstly, a supplementary provision of $2.39 million is required to cover increased salary payments to members of the Teaching Service, including student teachers in training, following the December determination of the Teachers Tribunal. This determination applied the 1969 national wage case decision of the Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission to the salaries of members of the Teaching Service.

Secondly, as a result of determinations made by the Cleaners Board and the Garden Employees Board and the effect of increased payments under the State incremental payments scheme, a supplementary provision of $3'88,000 is required to cover increased wage payments to school cleaners, groundsmen and domestics. Finally, a supplementary provision of $120,000 is required to cover increased salary payments approved by the Public Service Board to the administrative staff employed in the departments.

As a result of three determinations made by the Police Service Board since the time the Budget was prepared, an additional provision of $398,000 is required to cover increased salary payments to the members of the Police Force. The three determinations provide for increased payments to police cadets, in'creased quarters allowances and the application of the 1969 national wage case decision to the salaries 'Of members of the force, respectively. In addition, a supplementary provision of $196,000 has been included to meet the increase in overtime payments as a result of the recent decision of the Police Service Board regarding these payments, including the basis on which overtime becomes payable in lieu of time off.

During the course of the year, the Public Service Board has made severa] determinations. In December last, the board handed down a determination which applied the 1969 national wage case decision to the salaries payable to members of the Public Service.

The Hon. R. J. Hamer.

This determination is estimated to cost $1.37 million this financial year. Other determinations which have been made by the board, the most significant of which provide increased salaries payable to senior administrative and professional officers, to nurses employed in the mental hospitals and to typists and stenographers employed throughout all departments, are estimated to cost $1.57 million this financial year.

In the railways, the cost of awards handed down since the Budget was introduced have amounted to $2,716,840. Of this amount, $1.218 million results from increases in salaries and wages following the 1969 national wage case decision of the Conciliation and Arbitration Commission. Other awards handed down by the commission provide for increased payments to professional engineers and salaried officers. These awards involve additional payments amounting to $1.098 million this financial year. In addition, the cost of increased payments under the State incremental payments scheme will amount to $400,000 this financial year.

An indirect cost, resulting from determinations which the Kindergarten Teachers Board has handed down since the Budget was introduced, is reflected in increased maintenance payments to kindergartens. The estimated cost of increased payments to the kindergartens following these determinations is $79,450.

The cost of awards and determinations is the only significant departure from the expenditure forecast made in the Budget last year. However, further Supplementary Estimates will be necessary and these will be presented to the House when the 1970-71 Budget is brought down. I commend the Bill to the House.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH (Doutta Galla Province) .-The Supplementary Estimates are rendered necessary, as the Minister explained, to cope with the increases in wage allocations as


a result of the national wage case and other wage adjustments during the year. Members may be somewhat shocked by the magnitude of the amount of money that is involved, but it comes back to the old argument of the dog chasing its tail. The employers may argue that higher wages inevitably increase their costs, but members of the Labor Party argue that it is not a question of increasing the costs but of compensating the workers for the costs that are incurred by them. Although the Labor Party will support the Bill, I wish to express regret that increased payments under the incremental payments scheme for railway employees amount to only $400,000. Having regard to the argument that took place between the railway employees and the Government over a period of eighteen months, I am astounded that so little was involved in relation to maintaining the railway staff.

By way of castigation of the Government, I point out that if it hopes to retain staff in Government departments it must be prepared to offer some form of incentive payment that is comparable with those being paid in outside industry. The Government stands censured as a result of the long negotiations that took place during which time many employees left the Government service because the Government was not prepared to recognize that the labourer is worthy of his hire.

I hope that, as a result of the national wage case and the various wages board determinations, the Public Service will be able to retain many valuable members of its staff. In many cases, it is only long service leave that has accumulated after a long period of service that has induced employees to remain in the Government service rather than seek employment in outside industry. The Labor Party s'upports the Bill.

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE (North-Eastern Province) .-This is a necessary measure which has been

brought about by increased wages resulting from the national wage case and those granted under various determinations; it also relates to money advanced to three colleges of advanced education. These matters were not foreseen when the Government prepared the Budget for 1969-70. It is a normal procedure for the Government to introduce Supplementary Estimates each year. The money has been spent and legislative approval is now necessary. The Country Party therefore supports the measure.


The Bill was read a second time, and passed through its remaining stages.

ADJOURNMENT. RETIREMENT OF MEMBER.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture).-I move-

That the Council, at its rising, adjourn until Tuesday, June 30, at Three o'clock. I remind honorable members that the bells will ring at 3 p.m.



That the House do now adjourn.

The Hon. H. A. HEWSON (Gippsland Province) .-It is with some humiliation and feeling, perhaps, ." that I seek to make this personal explanation on the adjournment of the House. I am in the extraordinary position of being a defeated member of this Council at the last election yet still able to participate in the formalities of today's official opening. I hope that the traditions and formalities of this House will always be preserved. 'I have been privileged to be one

of the representatives of the Gippsland Province for the past six years and I hope that I have achieved my greatest ambition, namely, to serve my constituents with dignity, sincerity and honour. If I have, then I am happy because, in the

40 Adjournment. [COUNCIL.] Adjournment.

process, I have made many personal friends. I have always respected the opinions of other people, the other man's point of view, and given credit where it is due.

In this House, great responsibility rests on the individual member who must always have upper-most in his mind the effect that the legislation under review will have on the people of this State; he should put this before party politics because this is a House of review. I warn members that the House has a tendency towards becoming involved in party politics and I view with alarm its real effectiveness if it continues in this vein.

Conjoint elections militate against this House being democratically elected and in future I hope that, as a House of review, it will dissociate itself from being elected on the same day and on the same multitude of parochial politics as the many individual Assembly ,electorates within the province; these have a bearing on one's election or re-election, but have no relation to the functions of a member of the Legislative Council. I plead with members to change this system; otherwise they will 'become rubber stamps for Governments and have no value to a demoteratic Government and the historical bicameral system.

Although my Parliamentary career has been short, it has been rewarding. I have participated in debates on many issues but predominantly those in the interests of State development and the preservation of a balanced Parliament. I sincerely believe that the role of the Country Party has been honest in this regard. One great benefit I have gained is the knowledge which I have accumulated in many fields and which I can pass on to those with whom I shall associate in the future.

The fellowship of my party colleagues and of members of this Parliament is something which I will

The Ron. R. A. Hewson.

always cherish and which I hope I will always have. Your kindly advice, Mr. President, on many occasions has been most appreciated, particularly when I have-not unwittinglystrayed outside the scope of the debate. I extend to you my congratulations on your nomination for re-election to the high position of President of the Council. You have carried out your role with dignity and with thoughtful consideration for members of this Chamber. In that way, you have upheld the dignity of the high office, which is something we appreciate. In my six years as a member of this Council, I have served under three Presidents, and I trust that the next six years will not see the same number of changes.

I appreciate that I have always been treated courteously by the Ministers in this House. I congratulate Mr. Murray Byrne, who has occupied a back bench during the six years that I have been a member of this House. He has always shown responsibility and ability, and I believe that he has earned his elevation to the Ministry.

I have been a member of the Subordinate L~gislative Committee. I must admit that when I became a member of it I was a raw recruit with regard to subordinate legislation and the manner in which it should be approached, but I quickly learned that the committee performed a very important function. During the year in which I was chairman of that committee, some eminent people appeared before it to furnish advice. Some of them were questioned forcefully at times, and the results of the committee's inquiries were always in th~ interests of the rights of individuals. My service on the committee was rewarding, particularly during the past two years when the committee conducted a special inquiry for the Government and submitted a report which was hailed by many as important. I sincerely hope that some, if not all, of the suggestions contained in that report will be adopted.

Adjournment. [17 JUNE, 1970.] Opening of Parliament by Commission. 41

I have also been a member of the House Committee. I trust that suggestions which have been put forward in respect of the many and varied problems facing the House Committee will be acted upon. Some of them have been on the books for a long time, and if the ultimate aims of the committee are to be realized it may first be necessary to wear down the Treasurer.

I have enjoyed the fellowship of the members of the Parliamentary Bowling Club. I travelled interstate with them on the only occasion on which they won the trophy although, unfortunately, I was only a substitute.

I congratulate my successor on his win, and hope that when he enters this Chamber he will give the affairs of this State and the affairs of the province which he will represent the attention they deserve.

My colleague, Mr. Bert May, has been a tower of strength to me as well as a very close friend. I do not think that any two men could have worked more closely together in the interests of a province than we did. I hope my successor will also co-operate with Mr. May in the interests of the people of Gippsland Province.

The Government has now achieved a majority in this House, and I sincerely hope that it will use it wisely and well and that this Chamber will not become a mere rubber stamp in the enactment of Government legislation. I have always felt that the role of the Country Party has been in the best interests of the majority of the people of this State, although it may have appeared to be frustrating to the Government. The Country Party has carried out its role sincerely and honestly.

I thank all members of the House for the very happy association I have had with them.


The House adjourned at 10.46 p.m., until Tuesday, June 30.

ilrgililatiut Alilitmbly .. Wednesday, June 17, 1970.

OPENING OF PARLIAMENT BY COMMISSION.

Proceedings com'm·enced at 11.1 a.m. by the Clerk reading His Excellency the Governor's Proclamation convoking Parliament.

The Usher of the Black Rod appeared at the Bar, and intimated that the Commissioner appointed by the Governor to' open Parliament (the Honorable Sir Henry Arthur Winneke, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Victoria) requested the attendance of members of the Legislative Assembly in the Chamber of the Legislative Council to hear the Commission read for the commencement and holding of this present session of Parliament.

Honorable members, accompanied by the chief 'Officers of the House, proceeded at 'Once to the Chamber of the Legislative Council.

On the return of members to the Chamber of the Legislative Assembly, the Honorable Sir Henry Arthur Winneke entered the Chamber and was conducted by the Serjeant-atArms to the chair.

SWEARING IN OF MEMBERS. The Commission (dated 2nd June,

1970) appointing the Honorable Sir Henry Winneke to administer the oath of allegiance to members of the Legislative Assembly was read by the Clerk.

The Clerk announced that he had received 73 writs issued by His Excellency the Governor for the election of members to serve in the Legislative Assembly for the several districts of the State, with the names of the members duly endorsed there.on as follows:-

District. Member. Albert Park. - Valentine Joseph

Doube. Ballaarat North.-Alexander Thomas

Evans.

42 Swearing in [ASSEMBLY.] of Members.

District. Member.

Ballaarat South.-Wi11iam Francis Stephen.

Balwyn.-Alexander William Taylor. Bellarine.-Aurel Vernon Smith. Benalla.-Thomas Campion Trewin. Benambra.-Thomas Walter Mitchell. Bendigo.-Robert Hugh Trethewey. Bennettswood. - Ian Francis

McLaren. Bentleigh.-Robert Harris Suggett. Box Hill.-George Oswald Reid. Brighton.-John Frederick Rossiter. Broadmeadows. - John Thomas

Wilton. Brunswick East.-David Leon Frank

Bornstein. Brunswick West. Campbell

Turnbull. Camberwell. Vernon Francis

Wilcox. Caulfield.-Sir Edgar Stephen Tanner. Coburg.-J ohn Patrick Mutton. Dandenong.-Alan Alfred Campbell

Lind. Deer Park.-John Joseph Ginifer. Dromana. - Roberts Christian

Dunstan. Dundas.-Edward Wallace Lewis. Essendon.-Kenneth Henry Wheeler. Evelyn.-Russell Newton Stokes. Footscray.-Robert Clive Fordham. Frankston. - Edward Raymond

Meagher. Geelong.-Hayden Wilson Birrell. Geelong North. - Neil Benjamin

Trezise. Gippsland East.-Bruce James E~ans. Gippsland South. - James AllIster

Taylor. Gippsland West. - Robert Roy

Cameron Maclellan. Gisborne.-Julian John Doyle. Glenhuntly. - Joseph Anstice

Rafferty. Glen Iris.-James David MacDonald. Greensborough. - Robert William

Fell. Hampden.-Sir Henry Edward Bolte. Hawthorn.-Walter Jona. Heatherton. - Norman Alexander

William Billing. Ivanhoe.-Vernon Christie. Kara Kara.-Esmond Julian Curnow. Kew.-Sir Arthur Gordon Rylah. Lowan.-James Edmund McCabe. Malvern. Lindsay Hamilton

Simpson Thompson.

District. Member. Melbourne.-Reynold Arthur Clarey. Mentone. Thomas William

Templeton. Midlands.-Leslie Victor Shilton. Mildura.-Milton Stanley Whiting. Mitcham.-Dorothy Ada Goble. Monbulk. William Archibald

Borthwick. Moonee Ponds. - Cyril Thomas

Edmunds. Moorabbin. - William Frederick

Llewellyn Reese. Morwell.-Derek Godfry Ian Amos. Murray Valley.-George Colin Moss. Narracan.-James Charles Murray

Balfour. Northcote.-Frank Noel Wilkes. Oakleigh.-Alan Henry Scanlan. Polwarth.-Cecil William Burgin. Portland.-William John Lewis. Prahran. - Samuel John Everett

Loxton. Preston. - Carl William Dunn

Kirkwood. Reservoir.-James Lionel Simmonds. Richmond.-Allan Clyde Holding. Ringwood. - James Williamson

Manson. Rodney. - Russell Stanley Leslie

McDonald. St. Kilda.-Brian James Dixon. Sandringham. - Maxwell Leslie

Crellin. Scoresby.-Geoffrey Phillip Hayes. Shepparton.-Peter Ross-Edwards. Sunshine.-Denis Lovegrove. Swan Hill.-Henry George Broad. Syndal.-Raymond John Wiltshire. Warrnambool.-Ian Winton Smith. Williamstown. - William Laurence

Floyd. The aforementioned members

except John Frederick Rossiter, who was not present-took and subscribed the oath required by law.

On the completion of the ceremony of the swearing of members, the Commissioner withdrew.

ELECTION OF SPEAKER. The CLERK.-The House will now

proceed to the election of a Speaker. Mr. A. W. TAYLOR (Balwyn).

I move-That Vernon Christie, Esquire, do take the

chair of this House as Speaker.

Election of [17 JUNE, 1970.] Speaker. 43

I am pleased to nominate the honorable member for Ivanhoe for the highest honour the House can confer on a member. During his three years' service as Speaker, Mr. Christie has been considerate of the interests of members and has done a great deal to maintain the standards of Parliament as an institution. He has developed 'a deft touch in his handling of pOints 'of order, and I am sure that, if elected, he will continue to hold the respect of the House.

Mrs. GOBLE (Mitcham).-I have great pleasure in seconding the nomination of Mr. Christie as Speaker of the Legislative Assembly. For three years he has held this office with distinction. He has given his rulings withfirmne'Ss and impartiality and, when necess·ary, after due consideration. He has upheld the forms of the House with over-all benefit to the entire Parliament and its members.

Mr. CHRISTIE (Ivanhoe).-I am honoured to accept the nomination.

As there was no other nomination, the Clerk declared the honorable member for Ivanhoe duly elected as Speaker, and Mr. Christie was conducted to the chair by his proposer and seconder.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie ).-I am very thankful to the honorable member for Balwyn and the honorable member for Mitcham for the kindly terms in which they nominated me for this office. I shall do my utmost to uphold the rules and procedures of this Hous'e and I dedicate myself to its continued progress and usefulness.

With the help of honorable members, I am sure that, together, w,e can uphold the dignity, the integrity, and the very great worth of the Legislative Assembly of Victoria.

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Government, I congratulate you on your election to the highest 'Office thi'S House can bestow. You have had two firsts; you have had the unanimous approval of your 'Own party, without having to go through

a cumbersome exhaustive ballot, to retain the 'Office of Speaker, and t'Oday you have had the unanimous approval of the House. This is an acknowledgment of your excellent performance during the past three years. All honorable members have full confidence that that good record will be maintained.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .--..:Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Opposition, I congratulate you on your appointment 110 the highest office which is available to any member of this House. It is an important office because its occupant speaks for the House in te'rms of its forms, precedents, and traditions. In view of some of the problems the State faces in relation to the Commonwealth, it will be increasingly important that this House should continually assert its prerogatives, privileges, and traditions. We look forwa'rd with confidence to the lead you will give on these matters. You, Sir, have the full confidence of the Opposition.

Mr. ROSS-EDWARDS (Leader of the Country Party) .-The Country Party congratulates you, Sir, on your appointment 'as Speaker for a further three years. The efficient working of a Parliament in the British system of government depends very much on the ability of the Speaker. This House is fortunate indeed that you have be'en chosen to be its Speaker. My party appreciates the coo-operation and assistance you have tendered to it, and I look forward to a continuance of that co-operation in the next three years.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-I sincerely thank the Premier, the Leader of the Opposition, the Leader of the Country Party, and all honorable members. I will do my utmost to uphold the undoubted rights and privileges of the members of the Legislative Assembly of Victoria.

Sir HENRY BOLTE (premier and Treasurer) .-1 have to inform the House that I have already ascertained

44 Election of Speaker. [ASSEMBLY.] The Ministry.

that His Excellency the Governor will be pleased to receive the Speaker in the Library of Parliament House this day at ten minutes past Tw'o o'clock. I am sure the Speaker wO'uld wish that as many honorable members as possible would accompany him on that occasion.

The sitting was suspended at 11.'54 a.m. until 2.31 p.m.

PRESENTATION OF THE SPEAKER TO THE GOVERNOR.

The SPEAKER (the HOD. Vernon Christie).-I desire to inform the House that I this qay presented myself to His Excellency the Governor as the choice of this Assembly, and that His Excellency was pleased to address me in the following terms:-MR. SPEAKER,

I have much pleasure in congratulating you on your election f<>r the second time to the high and important office of Speaker of the Legislative Assembly.

The able manner in which you have always discharged the various duties you have undertaken during your Parliamentary career proves the wisdom of members of the Legislative Assembly in choosing you as their Speaker.

I have every confidence that you will fullfil !the duties of Ithat moslt di'S'tinguished office by holding fast to its age-old traditions and customs.

STATE OPENING OF PARLIAMENT. The Usher of the Black Rod

brought a message from His Excellency the Governor desiring the attendance of honorable members in the Chamber of the Legislative Council.

The House, headed by the Speaker, proceeded to the Council Chamber.

The sitting was suspended at 2.37 p.m. until 4.35 p.m.

COMMISSION TO SWEAR MEMBERS.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie) inform·ed the House that he had received from His Excellency the Governor a commission authorizing him to administer the oath of allegiance to such members as had not already taken and subscribed the same since their election.

THE MINISTRY. Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and

Treasurer) .-1 desire to inform the House of changes which have been made in the Ministry. In this House, the Hon. John Frederick Rossiter has been appointed Minister of Health; the Hon. William Archibald Borthwick, Minister of Lands, Minister of Soldier Settlement and Minister for Conservation; the Hon. Joseph Anstice Rafferty, Minister of Labour and Industry and Assistant Minister of Education; and the Hon. Ian Winton Smith, Minister of Water Supply. In the Legislative Council, the Hon. Vance Oakley Dickie has been appointed Minister of State Development and 'Minister for Tourism, and the Hon. Murray Byrne has been appointed Minister of Public Works.

QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE.

ARMED HOLD-UPS IN MELBOURNE.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote). - In view of the recent wave of armed hold-ups and bank robberies in Melbourne, will the Chief Secretary consider the establishment of a special squad to deal with the problem,. or will the honorable gentleman gIve further consideration to increasing the number of personnel in the Consorting Squad?

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-The answer is "No ". A question of this type merely encourages bank robbers.

Mr. WILKEs.-Get out of it! Sir ARTHUR RYLAH.-You asked

the question, and I have answered it. Mr. WILKES.-You said" No ". Sir ARTHUR RYLAH.-The Chief

Commissioner of Police has already made a statement on this matter.

Mr. HOLDING. - More intelligent than yours.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH.-Perhaps so, but I believe that the Chief Commissioner should make statements which concern the administration of the Police Force. I know that the Leader

Questions [17 JUNE, 1970.] without Notice. 45

of the Opposition and his deputy would like to take over the Police Force and run it in their own way, but, having regard to statements made by the Leader of the Opposition following the conference over the week-end, that would be the end of law and order in this State.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie }.-Order! I invite the Chief Secretary to answer the question.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH.-With due respect, Sir, I will answer the question; in fact I have done so. As the Deputy Leader of the Opposition has asked a political question, surely I am entitled to give a political reply. May I add that the Chief Commissioner has already stated that every available detective will be handling this problem, and he has taken drastic measures in an attempt to stop this wave of hold-ups.

TOTALIZATOR AGENCY BOARD. Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-I ad

dress a further question to the Chief Secretary. Would the honorable gentleman give consideration to allowing Totalizator Agency Board agencies to have a paying-out period in the afternoon on race days to reduce the amount of money on hand at the agencies at the conclusion of the day's proceedings?

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-The answer is "No". When it established the Totalizator Agency Board the Government gave an undertaking that there would be no paying out in the afternoon on race days because it was desired to avoid a betting-shop atmosphere. The Government does not propose to go back on that undertaking.

FARM FINANCE. Mr. MOSS (Murray Valley).-I

direct a question to the Premier and Treasurer. There is an urgent need today for short-term finance to be made available to keep primary producers in production. I ask the Premier whether he is aware of this position and whether he is prepared

to make finance available at a low rate of interest, through the Rural Finance and Settlement Commission, to assist these people to keep in production.

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-The honorable member for Murray Valley knows full well that the 'Government has obligations, in the first instance, to the soldier settlers of this State. I assure the honorable member that the Government will be most sympathetic in this field and that each case will be treated individually on its merits. In regard to rural industries collectively, it would be beyond the resources of this State even to consider the proposition to grant a lower interest rate to all farmers. I agree that the principle is sound, and I shall be approaching the Federal Government-the honorable member's Country Party colleagues in the Federal Government probably have the sole control of this matterwith a view to attempting to alleviate not the approaching situation but the current situation in which farmers find themselves.

Mr. TURNBULL.-Do you believe in moratoriums?

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie}.-Order! One question at a time.

Sir HENRY BOL TE.-I do not believe in a moratorium in which one sits down. If a moratorium is to be held we must be honest. Farmers work to principles. You have had time to settle your accounts, and to try to settle internal problems. You do not know what it is to come out with a rural policy.

The SPEAKER.-Order! The Premier should address the Chair.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-With limited resources the Government has gone a long way, and has probably gone as far as it can go. Land tax no longer applies to rural properties. In the spring sessional period it is proposed to introduce legislation to reduce the incidence of probate duty. I wish the Victorian Gnvernment had

46 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] without Notice.

sufficient resources to meet the request of the honorable member for Murray Valley. I am in full sympathy with the honorable member and I will do all in my power to impress on our Federal colleagues that this is an important problem which needs immediate correction.

TEMPORARY ACCOMMODATION AT TECHNICAL SCHOOLS.

Mr. TURNBULL (Brunswick West) .-Can the Minister of Education inform the House what technical schools in Victoria are operating in temporary accommodation?

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Order! The question is too deep, and it should be put on the Notice Paper.

ALLAMBIE RECEPTION CENTRE. Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the

Opposition) .-Has the Chief Secretary received a report indica ting that children are still sleeping on the floors at Allambie? In view of the fact that the Government promised urgent action on this matter some five years ago, what is now proposed to deal with this situation?

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-If the Government had some support from the Opposition it might get some money from Canberra. When the Government took office, it was faced with some considerable mismanagement.

Mr. WILKES.-Fifteen years ago! Sir ARTHUR RYLAH.-You know

the position; if you ask a political question, you will get a political answer.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie ).-Order! The Chief Secretary should not answer members of the Opposition; he should speak directly to the Chair.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH.-Very well, Sir. In answer t'O the Leader of the Opposition it has been known for some time that an overcrowding problem exists at Allambie.

Mr. WILKEs.-For five years.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH.-The honorable member knows all about it! Strangely enough, I know what the position is.

The SPEAKER.-Order! The Chief Secretary should answer the question and should ignore interjections.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH.-Very well. Mr. Speaker, I shall answer the question through you. When this Government came into office it was faced with tremendous overcrowding problems at these institutions. It purchased Allambie from the Presbyterian Church. Since then Allambie has been extended and the Government is still faced with this problem of overcrowding. Frankly, I make no apologies. Social services are the responsibility of the Federal Government. A Prime Minister for whom I had a great regard, the late Mr. Chifley, initiated a referendum with the view of the Commonwealth taking over this problem. Unfortunately, the Commonwealth Government has not done so, and has not accepted its responsibility. Consequently this State is left with the enormous problem of handling these children. The Government could purchase another property like Allambie-I do not know where it could be found-but I firmly believe tha t this would be the wrong policy. The Government's policy should be to try to alleviate the problems at Allambie by increasing the number of adoptions and foster care, which is being done, and providing several small children's homes. The Government has purchased sites at Templestowe, Kilmore, and Dandenong.

Mr. EDMUNDS.-Two minutes to go.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH.-You do not want to hear me.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Order! The Chief Secretary is addressing the Chair.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH.-What hope have I got, Mr. Speaker? Opposition members do not want to know the answer to the question.

Questions [17 JUNE, 1970.] without Notice. 47

but members on the Government side· of the House are interested in it. Sites have been purchased in Templestowe, Kilmore, Dandenong and three or four other suburban areas and the Government is negotiating for sites at Gisborne. The problems relate to money and staff. If the Government obtains the funds it will proceed immediately with the buildings. I hope it will be possible to proceed without the funds if I can "con" the Treasurer into maki~g the necessary provision, but nothIng can be gained by screaming about this matter and asserting that there is an overcrowding problem. Of course there is such a problem, but since the screaming started the number of children at Allambie has been reduced by 70, so it may well be that appropriate action has been taken.

This problem will always be with us. Unfortunately, in society today the number of broken homes is increasing and more and more tragedies are occurring which lead to children being left without people to look after them. There is a substantial problem in regard to charitable homes because of increasing costs.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Order! The Chief Secretary is going beyond the issue.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH.-This is a non-political problem. It is a social problem which must be shared by every honorable member. The Government is doing everything within its power to reduce the problem.

RECEIPTS DUTY. Mr. CLAREY (Melbourne).-In

view of the absolute confusion in the public and legal mind in regard to the legality or otherwise of the receipts tax, will the Premier and Treasurer inform honorable members what action, if any, the Government proposes to take with

respect to the large and increasing number of individuals, firms and companies that are now refusing to pay the tax?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and ~reasurer) .-It is a jolly good questIon, but I am amazed that it should come from the honorable member because he and I know that this tax has been applied over the past two years and the current position is that on the 30th of this month the tax on wages and salaries will end. I hope the tax on ordinary business undertakings will continue. If the honorable member could inform me through you, Mr. Speaker, how the Victorian Senators who are members of the Australian Labor Party are going to vote this week on the Bill relating to this 'Subject, I could answer the remainder of the question.

A ludicrous situation obtains at present. Six State Premiers approached the Prime Minister because the High Court had invalidated the State legislation on this subject. The six Premiers said to the Prime Minister, cc Will you please validate this legislation so that each State may in turn receive various amounts? " In the case of Victoria the amount involved is between $22 million and $24 million. The New South Wales amount may be $30 million, and comparable figures would apply in the other States. It is possible that this week the Victorian Senators could do the State in the eye for this amount of money. This will be the major contribution that the Senators of the Australian Labor Party may make.

Mr. HOLDING.-You have McManus in your pocket; why not stand him up?

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-They are like members of the Country Party; they have a little bit of influence on the side.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Order! I suggest that the Premier should answer the question.


Sir HENRY BOL TE.-If you allow interjections, Mr. Speaker, I shall answer them.

The SPEAKER. - Interjections should be ignored.

Sir HENRY BOL TE.-It is easy for you to say that, Mr. Speaker, but it is not easy for me. The simple answer to the question is that all of this apprehension has been created by members of the party to which the honorable member belongs in the Senate.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-When does the Premier, or the Government, propose to proclaim the amendment to the receipts duty legislation that has already been passed through this House?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-1 presume the question relates to the duty on wages and salaries. It will be proclaimed at the proper time.

Mr. HOLDING.-When is that? Sir HENRY BOL TE.-Prior to the

end of the financial year. I have stated categorically that on 1st July the receipts tax on wages and salaries will cease.

PHYSICAL EDUCATION COURSE AT UNIVERSITY OF MELBOURNE.

Mr. LIND (Dandenong).-Can the Minister of Education inform the House what is being done to retain the course in physical education at the University of Melbourne?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The Government is taking two courses of action to ensure that there is an adequate supply of teachers of physical' education in the Education Department. First, it has had discussions with representatives of the University of Melbourne to persuade them to retain the course at the university, where excellent facilities exist in the Beaurepaire Centre, which was built ten or twelve years ago. It would be a retrograde step to remove this course from the University of

Melbourne, which has provided many hundreds of first-class teachers of physical education for the Education Department. The Government is doing nothing to discourage the continuation of courses of training for physical education teachers and, in fact, is taking steps to increase them by establishing a second training centre at the Monash Teachers College. It is hoped that this course will be in 'Operati'On before the end of the year.

DAIRYING INDUSTRY. Mr. MOSS (Murray Valley).-I ask

the Minister for Fuel and Power, who I understand will answer questions relating to the dairying industry: Does the Government propose to introduce quotas in the dairying industry?

Mr. BALFOUR (Minister for Fuel and Power) .-The Government has not considered this question as such, but I understand that next week the Minister of Agriculture will attend a meeting of the Australian Agricultural Council. At this stage, the Government is not committed either way on the establishment of quotas.

ELECTORAL

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds).In view of the Premier's stated objection to the principle of one vote one value, can the honorable gentleman indicate whether the Government intends to introduce electoral reform to alter Assembly electorate quotas in regard to population movements?

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-That is a matter of Government policy. and I rule the question out of order.

STUDENT ACCIDENT INSURANCE.

Mr. MUTTON (Coburg).-Can the Minister of Education inform me what type or form of coverage is established in the event of an accident to a technical school student?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-It has not been the practice of the Education Department

Questions [17 JUNE, 1970.] without Notice. 49'

to cover students against accidents occurring on school grounds, nor has it been the policy of independent schools to do so. However, accident insurance is usually and frequently arranged by schools and school committees. There is no form of official insurance by the Education Department either in Victoria or, so far as 1 know, in other States of Australia.

CITY UNDERGROUND RAILWAY. Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the

Opposition) .-Now that Parliament has been told that the Government intends to proceed with the underground rail loop, can the Minister of Transport inform the House how it is proposed to finance the project?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport) .-1 cannot inform the House as to the financing of the underground rail loop, but I have no doubt that at the proper time everybody in the community will know exactly what is happening.

WHEAT INDUSTRY.

Mr. WHITING (Mildura).-W:ill the Treasurer give consideration to using the Rural Rehabilitation Fund to assist wheat growers who have been unsuccessful in their claims for a special quota under the financial hardship provisions of the Wheat Marketing Act?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-This is a question of detail relating to individual farmers who mayor may not be disadvantaged under the wheat quota system. I do not think the appeals committee could correct a particular farmer's problem to the degree that the State would have to arrange finance for him. I invite all farmers who are financially embarrassed by wheat quotas-this may apply in other fields, too; I think the wheat farmer has just arrived at this situation whereas wool growers have been drifting into it for some years-to apply to the Rural Finance and

Settlement Com-mission on an individual basis with documented submISSIons. To the limit of its resources, the Government will endeavour, as it has in the past, to assist these people. The honorable member will be the first to agree that the Government has assisted in the dried fruits industry and has met the problem facing persons in that industry over the years. It is my wish that this assistance should continue.

LAW DEPARTMENT.

Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park).-I ask the Attorney-General a question regarding legislation which waspassed by Parliament prior to the elections and which provided formembers of Parliament to be ex officio commISSIOners for taking, affidavits and declarations. For the guidance of new members, can theAttorney-General inform the House whether members have to comply with the other formalities, which include payment of stamp duty, before they can exercise this responsibility? If the Minister cannot answer the question at this stage, is he prepared to make inquiries and circulate the information to all honorable members?

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).-The honorable member is in error in saying that this legislation was passed by Parliament. The measurewas introduced into this House, but was not proceeded with.

STATE SCHOOL SAVINGS ACCOUNTS.

Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown).-l ask the Minister of Education: Has it been the practice of the Education Department to co-operate with theState Savings Bank in collecting from school children amounts of money to be deposited in their individual savings accounts each week? If so, has any alteration occurred in this practice within thedepartment? If not, have individual' schools and teachers decided that.


they will not handle this extra work? If so, will the department ensure that some opportunity is provided for students at these schools to regularly deposit money in a savings account?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education).-This has been a practice carried out voluntarily by teachers in the Education Department for many years to encourage the development of thrift by the younger generation. I believe this is a worth-while practice which should continue. If the honorable member will draw my attention to any schools in his electorate at which this practice has ceased, I shall do my best to rectify the situation.

PROPOSED THOMASTOWN HIGH SCHOOL.

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).Can the Minister of Education advise me whether the high school that is proposed to be established at Thomastown in 1971 will be accommodated in class-rooms which will become part of the permanent buildings of the school?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education).-The aim is to establish this new high school on its permanent site in buildings which will become part of permanent school facilities. PARLIAMENTARY GOVERNMENT.

Mr. SCANLAN (Oakleigh).-I desire to ask you, Mr. Speaker, a question relating to the arrangements in this House. In view of the demand by outside bodies which wish to direct and influence the affairs of Her Majesty's Opposition within this Parliamen t, will their members be permitted to be seated within the precincts?

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie ).-Order! I rule the question out of order.

MIGRANT EDUCATION. Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North).

Can the Minister of Education inform me what amount of money it is expected that Victoria will receive from the special Commonwealth grant to the States for migrant education? Also, can the honorable gentleman

indicate how the Government intends to use this allocation to assist Victorian migrants?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The exact amount to be allocated to Victoria has not been indicated to the Victorian Government. I think a figure of $16 million was mentioned by the Federal Minister for Immigration when he referred to this matter in the Federal Parliament. On this basis, it is assumed that Victoria will receive between $4 million and $5 million, or possibly more, but the official figure has not been supplied to the Victorian Government. However, sums of the order of $300,000 have been made available for expenditure in this financial year. This money can be used for the payment of teachersalready 208 specialist teachers have been employed in this field. It may also be used for the provision of specialist equipment and specialist teaching material as distinct from equipment in the form of machines. At present the money cannot be used for the provision of accommodation, which the Government believes is a grave lack. Representations have been made to the Commonwealth Government to ensure that money made available from these sources can be used to provide much-needed accommodation.

REGISTRATION OF BIRTHS DEATHS AND MARRIAGES

(AMENDMENT) BILL. Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secre

tary) .-In accordance with the usual practice, and in order to preserve the privileges of this House, I move for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Registration of Births Deaths and Marriages Act 1959.



GOVERNOR'S SPEECH. ADDRESS-IN-REPLY.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-I have the honour to report that the House this day


attended His Excellency the Governor in the Legislative Council Chamber, when His Excellency was pleased to make a Speech to both Houses of Parliament of which, for greater accuracy, I have obtained a copy. As the Speech is printed, and copies are in the hands of honorable members, it will not be necessary for me to read it.

Mr. J. A. TAYLOR (Gippsland South) .-1 move-

That the following Address-in-Reply to the Speech of His Excellency ·the Governor to both Houses of Parliament be agreed to by this House:-

MAY IT PLEASE YOUR EXCELLENCY:

We, the Legislative Assembly of Viotoria in Parli'ament assembled, beg to express our loyalty to our Most Gracious Sovereign, and to thank Your Excellency for the gracious Speech which you have' been pleased to address ,to P.arliament. I acknowledge the honour which has been bestowed upon me and the people of the Gippsland South electorate in my being given the opportunity to move the adoption of this motion. I am deeply conscious of the importance of the motion because, firstly, it contains an expression of loyalty to our Sovereign, a loyalty which has not diminished over the years of hardship suffered by our forebears in building the basis of this great State of Victoria and the Commonwealth of Australia. This loyalty will not diminish as we move into the faster and more affluent world of the 1970s. Recently we were fortunate to be favoured with a visit by our Queen and her family.

Secondly, the motion gives me the opportunity to extend our thanks to His Excellency for his Speech and also to express our appreciation to Sir Rohan and Lady Delacombe for the manner in which they have carried 'Out their respective duties as Her Majesty's representatives in this State. Over the years, they have endeared themselves to the hearts of all Victorians, and we wish them many happy and fruitful years with us here in Victoria.

His Excellency also mentioned in his Speech the death of the Honorable Sir Herbert Hyland. Known as the

fa ther of this House for many years, the late Sir Herbert Hyland represented his electorate with dignity and dedica tion. 'During his 41 years as a member of this House, he acquired a profound knowledge of politics and the art of representation. It is with humility that I have accepted the task allotted to me by the people of that same electorate, Gippsland South, to follow the late Sir Herbert Hyland in this Chamber as· their elected representative. Many new members are judged by their electors by comparison with the performances of their previous representatives, and I realize that in following the late Sir Herbert Hyland in this House my task is not an easy one.

Gippsland South is an electorate in the eastern part of the State, and as part of Gippsland it is an area which has great potential. With the growth of the Latrobe Valley and the great oil and gas discoveries off the Victorian coast, Gippsland can look forward to a substantial increase in secondary industry. Primary production within the area, particularly in the dairying industry, is second to none. The Government has announced that a new agricultural college is to be built and that it will be established in Gippsland. Over the years the forests of this area have carried an excellent timber industry, and it is pleasing to note that the present output in softwood and hardwood timbers is maintaining a satisfactory level. With its lakes, its beaches and its mountains, Gippsland can look forward to a steady influx of tourists over the next few years. It is foreseeable that the tourist industry in Gippsland will become one· of the major industries in the eastern part of this State.

His Excellency outlined in his Speech several of the major policies which the Government proposes to implement in the next three years, and at this stage I should like to reiterate some of these policies. In this day and age the hardships and burdens placed upon people by age and illness are a reflection not only

52 Governor's Speech,' [ASSEMBLY.] Address-in-Reply.

on our social upbringing but also on our society. Therefore, with the establishment of a separate Ministry of Social Welfare, the people of Victoria can be assured 'Of an all-out battle on areas of social distress within our community.

Added to this are the advances that will be made by the Government in the field of education. An intensive programme of teacher training and of recruitment of qualified teachers will be initiated. A fourth university will be established. The Government will set up regi'Onal directorates in c'Ountry areas to decentralize the administration of the Education Departmen t. These are some of the many forward steps that the Government will take to ensure that every student in this State receives the best possible 'education.

With the establishment 'Of a Chair of Environmental Studies at the University of Melbourne and of a Vict'Orian Pollution Control Authority during the term of this Parliament, and with the increase in our already substantial national parks, State forests and wildlife sanctuaries, the pe'Ople of Victoria can rest assured that this Government will give them the protection which they require in respect of natural resources and natural environment.

W·e are all aware of the 'Situation that has arisen over CommonwealthState financial relationships. Since the second W'Orld war, the present system of uniform taxation has deprived the States of their financial independence. With sound management, the Victorian Treasury has provided the people of Victoria with more than the basic essential services, and it is hoped by all members 'Of this House that an easing 'Of the purse strings attached to the Federal coffers will lighten the burden on the financial structure of the States.

For the past fifteen years, this Governm'ent ha'S given the State of Victoria growth and stability never previously achieved. The policies that I have mentioned and many more will be carried out by this Government, as

Mr. J. A. Taylor.

have all previous policies, with intelligence, with responsibility and with an aim to the improvement of our State.

, Finally, I again express to the Governor our thanks for his gracious Speech, and assure His Excellency that the dignity of this Parliament will be upheld and that when the term of this Forty-fifth Parliament concludes, Victoria will be richer as a result of decisions made in this Legislative Assembly.

Mr. MACLELLAN (Gippsland West).-Mr. Speaker, it is an honour and a privilege for me to second the motion moved by my colleague and electoral neighbour, the honorable member for Gippsland South, for the adoption of an Address-in-Reply to the Speech of His Excellency the Governor. I appreciate the opportunity I now have of expressing the loyalty and the respect of the people of Gippsland West to Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II. The recent Royal visit to this State, to celebrate the bi-centenary of the discovery of the east coast of Australia by Captain Cook, has caused some commentators to reassess their previous positions regarding the relationship between the Australian people and the monarchy-a reassessment which I believe was long overdue. Some of the commentators had assumed that Australians were so materialistic tha t their loyalty was in proportion to the power and influence of the United Kingdom. The" meet-thepeople" tour, as it was quickly dubbed" confounded all those statements and that attitude, because the people of Victoria were anxious, and are anxious, to meet Her Majesty and members of the Royal Family on as many occasions as possible. The electorate of Gippsland West has not had the pleasure of a visit from the Royal Family, and we look forward to having that pleasure on some future occasion.

In this context, the word" loyalty" can be taken to mean mutual obligation, mutual interest and identity. It is the opposite of the problems that


we read about in the press-of alienation, of people who feel alienated from society, or people who, to use a modern expression, have dropped out of society. His Excellency stated that that Government's objective was the continued welfare of the people of this State. That is the concern of all members of this Parliament. His Excellency specifically mentioned the establishment of a Ministry of Social Welfare, and some of the questions asked by honorable members earlier indicated an interest in the subject of social welfare. All members of this Parliament share that interest; it is not the monopoly of anyone group,. Honorable members are interested in social welfare because there are people in this community who need assistance. The establishment of a Ministry of Social Welfare will be the beginning of the machinery by which this Parliament will assist in those areas of need.

His Excellency the Governor referred to " pockets of social distress." Honorable members are aware of these pockets, whether they are urban or rural. It is often forgotten that rural areas have problems, as do urban areas. Those members who are concerned about these matters have a duty to bring them forward forcefully so that Parliament will receive the benefit of their knowledge and experience.

His Excellency also mentioned the establishment of a Victorian Pollution Control Authority and of a Chair of Environmental Studies at the University of Melbourne. A Chair of Environmental Studies is of vital importance because we must avoid hysteria and careless thinking. Sometimes the most obvious forms of pollution are not the most insidious or the most dangerous. Too often we are concerned with a bit of detergent frothing in a stream without inquiring into the aspects of pollution which are not readily visible or easily publicized. There must be a Chair of Environmental Studies at the University of Melbourne to provide the technical advice which is required to

make pollution control a reality and not just an appearance. It is not enough merely to abolish frothing and bubbling detergents if we do not look at what is in the water and find means of ensuring that it is pure, or as pure as possible. This is not a matter which needs to be handled with kid gloves; the law which is ultimately passed must be enforced, and enforced strongly. I believe members of all parties in this House will look forward to legislation on this subject.

Another matter mentioned in His Excellency's Speech was the projected analysis of the use of Crown land to make provision for parks, wildlife reserves and forests. It is not my intention to state what has been done in this field in the past, because I was not then a member of Parliament. I believe the record is very good, but let us look again at the lands remaining within the control and ownership of the Crown and see which sections of those lands can be made available for parks, wildlife reserves and forests. As a country representative, I consider that this is a question on which not solely city voices should be raised. City people, who often take upon themselves the role of critics, assert that farmers have no sense of responsibility in regard to their land. This is not true; it never has been true, and it never will be true. The farmers of this State have had a role to play in conservation; it has been a private and personal role and one which has not been acknowledged sufficiently in this Parliament.

I should like to revert to my earlier remarks about loyalty and its meaning of mutual obligation, mutual interest and identity. The people who feel alienated from society and the people who choose to drop out of society have a problem about their loyalty. I believe the test of the loyalty of every member of this House is the sincerity of his concern for the people who are not sharing in the prosperity which is general in the community and his concern for the people who are anxious to see steps taken to preserve areas of Crown

54 Election of Chairman [ASSEMBLY.] of Committees.

land for future generations. I believe all members 'Of this House are loyal and sincere, and I look forward to seeing demonstrations of that loyalty in the years to come.

On the motion of Mr. WILKES (Northcote), the debate was adjourned.

It was ordered that the debate be adjourned until next day.

ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie ).-The House will now proceed with the appointment of a Chairman of Committees.

Mr. LOXTON (Prahran).-I move-That Sir Edgar Stephen Tann'er, C.B.E.,

E.D., be rappointed Chairman of Committees of rthis House. The honorable member for Caulfield was elected to this House in 1955; and he has represented the electorates of Ripponlea and Caulfield with distinction. He is a returned serviceman of the second world war, and his association with amateur sport is well known to all honorable members. No doubt his conscientious service in the field of the Australian Olympic Federation contributed to his recognition by Her Majesty the Queen. Over the years, the honorable member for Caulfield has proved to be a capable Temporary Chairman of Committees. I echo the feelings of all honorable members when I say that we have confidence in his ability to uphold the dignity of this high office to the complete satisfaction of himself and every other honorable member.

Mr. BILLING (Heatherton).-It is my privilege to support the nomination by the honorable member for Prahran of Sir Edgar Stephen Tanner, C.B.E., E.D., as Chairman of Committees. It would be impertinent of me to elaborate on the excellence of the nominee. I share my colleague's view that this House can look forward to his upholding the traditions and dignity of this place.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Does the honorable member for Caulfield accept the nomination?

Sir EDGAR TANNER (Caulfield).I accept, with pleasure, nomination for the high office of Chairman of Committees.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-I declare the honorable member for Caulfield duly appointed Chairman of Committees of this House. I welcome him as Chairman of Committees in the service of the House and I wish him well in Committee.

TEMPORARY CHAIRMEN OF COMMITTEES.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie) laid on the table his warrant nominating Mr. Clarey, Mr. A. T. Evans, Mr. Jona, Mr. Lind, Mr. R. S. L. McDonald, Mr. Mitchell, Mr. Stokes, Mr. Suggett, Mr. A. W. Taylor, Mr. Trewin, Mr. Wheeler, and Mr. Wiltshire to act as Temporary Chairmen of Committees whenever requested to do so by the Chairman of Committees.

COMMITTEE OF PUBLIC ACCOUNTS.

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-By leave, I move-

That Mr. Lind, Mr. R. 'S. L. McDonald. Mr. McLaren, Mr. Reese, Mr. Ross-Edwards, Mr. 'frezise, ·and Mr. Wheeler be members of the Committee of Public Accounts; and that the committee have power to send for pernons, .papers, 'and 'records, to move from place Ito pI,ace, and Ito sit on days on which the Hous·e does nOlt meet; :three to be the quorum.




That Mr. Edmunds, Mr. A. T. Ev.ans, Mr. B. J. Evans, Mr. Lovegrove, Mr. A. V. Smith rand Mr. Whiting be membel'ls of ,the Sitartu~ Law Revision Committee; and that the committee have power 'to send for peJlSOns. papel'ls rand l'Iecoros.


Committees. [17 JUNE, 1970.] Committees. 55

SUBORDINATE .LEGISLATION COMMITTEE.


That Mr. Birrell, Mr. Broad, land Mr. Turnbull be members of the Subordinate Leg1sl'a:tion Committee; and >that the committee have power to send for persons, papers I(fid records.


HOUSE COMMITTEE. Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and

Treasurer) .--JBy leave, .I move-That Mr. Bomstein, Mr. Doube, Mr. B. J.

EV'an's, Mr. McLaren, 'and Mr. Mitchell be members of the House Committee; and that the committee have leave to sit on days on which the House does not meet.


LIBRARY COMMITTEE. Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and

Treasurer) .--....:By leave, I move-That Mr. Speaker, Mr. Doyl,e, Mr.

Edmunds, Mrs. Goble, and Mr. Mitchell be members of :tbe Lib1'lary Committee; and that the committee have leave to sit on days on which the House does not meet.


PRINTING COMMITTEE. Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and

Treasurer) .-By leave, I move-That Mr. Speaker, Mr. Broad, Mr. Curnow,

Mr. W. J. Lewis, Mr. J. D. MacDonald, Mr. Stephen, Mr. Stokes, ,and Mr. Whiting be membells of Ithe Prin'ting Committee; and tha:t the committee hav'e l'eave Ito sit on days on which the House does n01t meet; three to be Ithe quorum.


STANDING ORDERS COMMITTEE. Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and

Treasurer) .-By leave, I move-That Mr. Speaker, Mr. Holding, Mr. Manson,

Mr. Ross-Edwards, Mr. A. W. Taylor, Mr. Whiting, and Mr. WIlkes be members of the Standing Orders Committee; and that the committee have leave to sit on days on which the House does not meet; five to be the quorum.


PUBLIC WORKS COMMITTEE. Sir HENRY BOLTE (premier and

Treasurer) .-By leave, I move-That Mr. Floyd, Mr. Ginifer, Mr. Scanlan,

and Mr. Trewin be members of the Public Works Committee.


STATE DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE.


That Mr. R. S. L. McDonald, Mr. Simmonds, Mr. Templeton, and Mr. Wiltshire be members of the State Development Committee.

The motion was agreed to. MEAT INDUSTRY COMMITTEE. Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and

Treasurer) .-Honorable members will recall that the Meat Industry Committee went out of existence when Parliament was prorogued. The deliberations of that committee have not been concluded and it is essential that it be reconstituted. Therefore, by leave, I move-

That, contingent upon the enactment, this session, of legislation for the establishment of la Jo'mt Seleot Commilttee of Ithe Legislati\~e C~unc~l and the Legislative Assembly to m.qUIre mt~ and report upon certain questions relating to the meat industry in Vict<:>ria, and for other purposes, Mr. E. W. LeWIS, Mr. Suggett, Mr. Trethewey, and Mr. Trewin be appointed members of the Committee.

The motion was agreed to. ROAD SAFETY COMMITTEE.

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer).-For reasons similar to those I gave concerning the reconst~tution of the Meat Industry CommIttee, I move, by leave-

That contingent upon the enactment this session, of legislation for the establishment of a Joint Select Committee of the Legislati\~e C~unc!l and the Legislative Assembly to mqUIre mto and report upon certain questions relating to road safety, and for other purposes, Mr. Dixon, Mr. B. J. Evans, Mr. Jona, and Mr. Wilkes be appointed members of the Road Safety Committee.

The motion was agreed to. COMMITTEES OF SUPPLY AND

WAYS AND MEANS. Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and

Treasurer), by leave, moved the following motions, which were agreed to:-

That Standing Order No. 273A be suspended so as to allow the Committees of Supply and Ways and Means to be appointed this day.

That this House will, this day, resolve itself into a Committee to consider of the Supply to be granted to Her Majesty.

That this House will, this day, resolve itself into a Committee to consider of the Ways and Means for raising the Supply to be granted to Her Majesty.

56 Joint Select Committee [ASSEMBLY. J (Meat Industry) Bill.

ESTIMATES. Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and

Treasurer) presented a message from His Excellency the Governor transmitting an Estimate of Expenditure for the months of July, August and September, in the year 1970-71, and recommending an appropriation fronl the Consolidated Revenue accordingly.

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES FOR YEAR 1969-70.

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) presented a message from His Excellency the Governor transmitting Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure for the year 1969-70, and recommending an appropriation from the Consolidated Revenue accordingly.


Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) presented a message from His Excellency the Governor recommending that an appropriation be made from the Consolidated Revenue for the purposes of a Bill to provide for the appointment of a Joint Select Committee of the Legislative Council and the Legislative Assembly to inquire into and report upon certain questions relating to the meat industry in Victoria, and for other purposes.

A resolution in accordance with the recommendation was passed in Committee and adopted by the House.

On the motion of Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer), the Bill was brought in and read a first time.

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-1 move-

That this Bill be now read a second time. This is purely a procedural matter. The Meat Industry ·Committee has not completed its deliberations and it is necessary that the committee be reconstituted.

The motion was agreed to. The Bill was read a second time and

committed. Clause 1 (Short title and construc

tion) .

The CHAIRMAN (Sir Edgar Tanner).-I take this opportunity of thanking the Speaker, the honorable member for Prahran, who moved the motion that I be appointed Chairman of Committees, and the honorable member for Heatherton, who seconded the motion. I also thank honorable members for the manner in which they received the motion, and assure them tha t I shall do my utmost to carry 'Out my duties to the best of my ability and in accordance with the traditions of the Committee of this House.

The clause was agreed to, as were the remaining clauses.



Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) presented a message from His Excellency the Governor recommending that an appropriation be made from the Consolidated Revenue for the purposes of a Bill to provide for the appointment of a Joint Select Committee of the Legislative Council and the Legislative Assembly to inquire into and report upon certain questions relating to road safety, and for other purposes.


On the motion of Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary), the Bill was brought in and read a first time.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-1 move-

That this Bill be now read a second time. No explanation of this Bill is necessary because it merely continues the operations of the Road Safety Committee, which had not completed its deliberations at the conclusion of the last Parliament.

The motion was agreed to. The Bill was read a second time,

and passed through its remaining stages. .

VOTES ON ACCOUNT. The House went into Committee of

Supply.

Votes on [17 JUNE, 1970.] Account. 57

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-Before I move a certain motion, Mr. Chairman, I should like to c'Ongratulate you 'On your appoint-

ment. I trust that there will be mutual understanding and c'O-operation between honorable members and yourself. I now move-

That a sum not ex'ceeding $139,511,000 be granted to Her Majesty on account for or towards defraying the following services for the year 19700-71:-

Division No.

1. Legislative Council-Expenses of Select Committees 2. Legislative Assembly-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 3. Legislative Council and Legislative Assembly House Committee-Salaries, General

Expenses, and Other Services 4. Parliamentary Printing-Printing of Hansard, &c. 5. Parliament Library-Salaries and General Expenses 6. Parliamentary Debates-Salaries and General Expenses 7. Governor's Office-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 8. Premier's Office-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 9. State Film Centre-Salaries and General Expenses.. . .

10. Soil Conservation Authority-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 11. State Development-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 12. Agent-General-Salaries and General Expenses 13. Public Service Board-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 14. Public Service Board Electronic Data Processing Service Bureau-Salaries and

General Expenses 15. Audit Office-Salaries and General Expenses .. 16. Chief Secretary's Office-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 17. Totalizator Administration-Salaries and General Expenses 18. State Accident Insurance Office-Salaries .. 19. State Motor Car Insurance Office-Salaries 20. Workers' Compensation Board-Salaries .. .. 21. Fisheries and Wildlife-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 22. Government Shorthand Writer-Salaries and General Expenses 23. Government Statist-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 24. Police-Salaries and General Expenses 25. Police Service Board-Salaries and General Expenses 26. State Library, National Museum and Institute of Applied Science Administration-

Salaries and General Expenses . . . . . . 27. State Library-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 28. National Museum-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 29. Institute of Applied Science-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 30. National Gallery-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 31. Immigration-Salaries and General Expenses . . . . . . 32. Social Welfare Administration and Research and Statistics-Salaries, General

Expenses, and Other Services . . . . . . 33. Family Welfare-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 34. Youth Welfare-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 35. Prisons-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 36. Training-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 37. Probation and Parole-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 38. Labour and Industry-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 39. Education-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 40. Teachers Tribunal-Salaries and General Expenses .. 41. Attorney-General-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 42. Courts Administration-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 43. Registrar-General and Registrar of Titles-Salaries and General Expenses 44. Registrar of Companies-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 45. Rent Control-Salaries and General Expenses 46. Public Trustee-Salaries and General Expenses 47. Treasury-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 48. Pay-roll Tax-Payment to Commonwealth Government 49. Tender Board-Salaries and General Expenses . . . . .. SO. State Superannuation Board-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 51. Registry of Co-operative Housing Societies and Co-operative Societies and Home

Finance Administration-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 52. Taxation Office-Salaries, General Expenses and Other Services

Sum Required for Three

Months Ending 30th September,

1970.

$

900 50,200

42,200 50,000 13,100 38,200 19,700

304,300 40,500

186,400 43,400 35,000

137,600

89,100 160,500 130,000 14,300

170,000 213,000

17,400 278,600 21,100

132,600 7,780,000

2,000

74,800 215,400 42,500 27,300

197,800 31,200

97,100 1,457,000

564,400 977,000 40,200

110,500 412,900

56,000,000 12,600

378,800 1,193,900

448,400 93,400 15,300

174,400 5,350,000 1,410,000

68,900 63,300

46,900 224,800

58

Division No.

Votes on . [ASSEMBLY.]

53. Stamp Duties-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services

Account.

54. Government Printer-Salaries and General Expenses .. 55. Crown Lands Administration-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 56. Survey-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services . . . . 57. Botanic and Domain Gardens and National Herbarium-Salaries and General

Expenses .. ..... . 58. Public Works-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 59. Ports and Harbors-Salaries, General Expenses and Other Services 60. Local Government-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 61. Valuer-General-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 62. Weights and Measures-Salaries and General Expenses 63. Town and Country Planning Board-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 64. Mines-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 65. Explosives-Salaries and General Expenses 66. Gas Regulation-Salaries . . . . . . . . 67. Agriculture Administration-5alaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 68. Agricultural Education-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 69. Agriculture-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 70. Horticulture-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 71. Animal Health-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 72. Animal Industry-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 73. Dairying-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 74. Extension Services-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 75. Health Administration-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 76. General Health-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 77. Tuberculosis-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 78. Maternal and Child Welfare-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 79. Mental Hygiene-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 80. Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs-Contribution to Aboriginal Affairs Fund 81. Ministry of Fuel and Power-Salaries and General Expenses 82. Railway Contruction Board-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 83. Ministry of Transport-5alaries and General Expenses .. 84. Forests Commission-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 85. State Rivers and Water Supply Commission-Salaries, General Expenses, and

Other Services 86. Railways-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services

Total


Months Ending 30th September.

1070.

$

181,700 883,000 610,000 421,600

75,400 2,149,000

505,000 111,000 124,300 63,500 70,100

356,000 36,300 11,400

475,500 265,100 426,000 489,000 308,000 204,000 321,000 45,200

9,241,000 1,266,500

847,000 1,470,000 6,600,000

90,000 14,000 32,500 9,000

960,000

3,150,000 28,000,000

139,511,000

The Supply Bill now in the hands of honorable members is to provide for the expenditure requirements of departments for the initial three months of the financial year 1970-71.

in. The Supply Bill now before the House therefore covers the period from the end of June to the time when the Budget will be introduced.

Last December, Parliament passed the Appropriation Act, which provided the authority for expenditure from Consolidated Revenue up to 30th June, 1970. The Government proposes that after Parliament has granted further Supply and has approved the Supplementary Estimates, which will be introduced today, both Houses will adjourn until the spring sessional period when the Budget for 1970-71 will be brought

Sir Henry Bolte.

The amount included in the motion which I have moved is $139.511 million: This is the amount estimated to "be necessary to meet expenditure requirements under the individual votes for the months of July, August and September, 1970, on the basis of the continuation of existing services. No provision has been made for" any additional expenditure arising from new policy decisions. These matters must await the introduction of the 1970-71 Budget.

Supplementary Estimates [17 JUNE, 1970.] for Year 1969-70. 59

Since I have been Premier and Treasurer, the elections, which are held every three years, have always 'fallen in the period from April to . May. An Appropriation Bill has .already been passed to cover the services of the State up to 30th June. It could have been possible, if the Government had held a majority in both Houses-it is sometimes possible even without a majorityto have Supply granted until 30th September, but it has always been my practice to seek Supply only until 30th June so that, when the results of an election are known, it becomes imperative for Parliament to meet and grant additional Supply. The passage of Supply on this occasion is an academic exercise, because Parliament will be meeting in September, when the Budget will be presented. In commending this Supply Bill to the House, I feel that I have fulfilled the commitment that I have given periodically to Parliament that the House will meet as early as possible 'following an election. The passage of this measure through both Houses is urgent as the expenditure which will be authorized is necessary to meet the services of the State as presently constituted.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-Before proposing that progress be reported, 1 congratulate you, Mr. Chairman, on your appointment as Chairman of Committees. Just as it has cooperated with your predecessors in the past, the Opposition will extend its full co-operation to you, Mr. Chairman, during your term of office.

Progress was reported.


The House went into Committee of Supply.


That a sum not exceeding $12,982,672 be granted to Her Majesty on 'account for or towards defraying services for the year 196~-70, as printed in the Supplementary EstImates.

An explanatory statement has been supplied to honorable members from which it will be apparent that there is nothing unusual concerning the Supplementary Estimates. Each item . of additional expenditure in the Supplementary Estimates was incurred as a result of new wages awards.

Progress was reported. The sitting was suspended at 6.13

p.m. until 8.5 p.m. TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN OF

COMMITTEES. The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon

Christie) laid on the table his warrant nominating Mr. Ginifer to act as Temporary Chairman of Committees whenever requested so to do by the Chairman of Committees.

VOTES ON ACCOUNT. The House went into Committee

of Supply for the further consideration of the motion of Sir Henry Bolte (Premier and Treasurer) that a sum not exceeding $139,511,000 be granted to Her Majesty on account for or towards defraying services for the year 1970-71.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-Prior to the suspension of the sitting, the Premier and Treasurer introduced Supply for an amount of $139.511 million which is approximately $39 million more than for the same period three years ago. No doubt this is because of additional costs and oncost charges which have to be met by the Government. I shall not go into the pros and cons of the election; it would be inopportune to do so.

Mr. DUNSTAN.-It may be indiscreet.

Mr. WILKES.-The honorable member may be right. The Treasurer pointed out quite rightly that after an election the Government seeks Supply from the time that the House meets for the swearing in of members until the Budget session, the purpose being to meet the commitments of the Government for that brief period. The Opposition does not concede that no problems exist in the S ta te of Victoria.

60 Votes on . [ASSEMBLY.] . Account.

Mr. REID.-There are problems in your party.

Mr. WILKES.-The Minister suggests that there are problems in my party; I am prepared to debate the suggestion with him at any time. I remind the honorable gentleman that, a.s a result of the election, the Opposi!lOn ~as increased its representation In thIS House. Therefore it is expedient for the Opposition to concede that the Government requires Supply and it would be inopportune for the Opposition to refuse or attempt to deny Supply at this time.

Before I was rudely interrupted by the Attorney-General I was endeavouring to point oLit that the Opposition does not concede that there are no problems in the State of Victoria. There are problems in the field of education and as the Chief Secr~tary mentioned: in the area of socIal welfare, and there are problems in the Liberal Party. However, the Opposition acknowledges the need for a careful appraisal of these problems by the Government during the next three months and therefore will not oppose Supply.

Mr. ROSS-EDWARDS (Leader of the Country Party) .-Firstly, I congrat~late you, Mr. Chairman, on your appomtment and assure you of the co-operation of the members of the Country Party at all times, being confident tha~ in turn we shall have your co-operatIOn. We trust that you will make a success of your appointment.

The purpose of this motion is to grant Supply to the Government to 30th September, and each item listed will be debated during the Budget session. The Country Party supports the granting of Supply.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-Firstly, I c'Ongratulate you, Mr. Chairman, on your appointment as Chairman of Committees and assure you that you will have the full co-operation 'Of the Opposition. I have no doubt that you will discharge with diligence and integrity the high office t'O which you have been appointed.

I do not propose to prolong the debate, but some comments which were made to the Deputy Leader of the Opposition impel me to inform the Government how the Opposition feels about the question of Supply. Of course, the Government is entitled to SUl?ply ~ecause the major issues WhICh WIll be dealt with in the near future can be more properly canvassed by all h'Onorable members during the c'Ourse of the Budget debate. This will pr'Ovide some of the newlyappointed Ministers and those who have been reallocated to other portfollos an opportunity t'O find out what It IS all ab'Out. Those Ministers who have been reallocated will have an opportuni ty to clean up the mess left by their predecessors. Therefore it is appropriate that there should ~ot be a full debate 'On Supply at present.

However, it is appropriate that the Opposition should tell the Government that, whilst it has the numbers t'O form the Government, it does not h.ave the moral and political recognitIon of the State of Victoria. It is, in fact, a 36 per cent Government which represents a political minority. I was about to say that the Ministers hold their positions as the result of a political gerrymander. They also hold their positions because 'Of a certain amount of diligence and ability tQ move deftly in the party room to avoid the knives that were 'Out.

The Oppo'Sition is placing the Government on full notice that it is a Government as the result of the Premier's political gerrymander. Honorable members may laugh, but the fact is that the Liberal Party in this State, and throughout Australia, is prepared to talk about political democracy in the Soviet Union, China, Czechoslovakia, and Vietnam. The only place in which it is not prepared to talk about political democracy is Victoria. It is a 36 per cent Government which has no moral 'Or political entitlement to recognition other than the fact that it is a minority Government. This is how the Opposition intends to treat it.

Supplementary Estimates [17 JUNE, 1970.] for Year 1969-70. 61

On this occasion, the Government is entitled to Supply and the Opposition is prepared to conc.ede it. However, during the. course of the Budget debate, the Government will be treated for what it is worth. This Government is the result of a political gerrymander and is not worth anything-it is worth no more than the dictators who are 'Operating "banana republics" in South America. The Opposition is delivering to the Government simple notice of how its members feel about it and how they propose to deal with the Government in the rest of the session.

The motion was agreed to. The resolution was reported to the

House and adopted.

WAYS AND MEANS. The House went into Committee

of Ways and Means. Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secre

tary) .-1 move-That towards making good the Supply

granted to Her Majesty for the service of the year 1970-71, the sum of $139,511,000 be granted out of the Consolidated Revenue of Victoria.

The motion was agreed to, and the resolution was reported to the House and adopted.


1970) BILL. Leave was given to Sir Henry

Bolte (Premier and Treasurer) and Sir Arthur Rylah (Chief Secretary) to bring in a Bill to carry out the resolution of the Committee of Ways and Means.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) brought in a Bill to apply out of the Consolidated Revenue the sum of $139,511,000 to the service of the year 1970-71, and moved that it be read a first time.

The motion was agreed to, and the Bill was read a first time, and passed through its remaining stages.


The House went into Committee of Supply for the further consideration of the Supplementary Estimates for the year 1969-70.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-The Supplementary Estimates, which amount to $12,982,762, relate to over-expenditure by the Government in two ways-firstly, by increases in award payments in certain fields and, secondly, in special payments made last December to three colleges of advanced education.

The Supplementary Estimat~s are unrelated to Supply in that the latter covers the period from 1 st July until the end of September next, whereas the Supplementary Estimates relate to over-expenditure by the Government to the end of the current financial year. One would expect overexpenditure by the Government in many fields, but this is not the case. The only occasions on which the Government has been caught with additional expenditure have been when tribunals have decided to grant increased salaries and wages for personnel in various departments. For instance, the first increase in expenditure arises in the Education Department, namely, an amount of $2.97 million for teachers' salaries. There was also an additional expenditure of $398,000 in increased payments to police cadets, increased quarters allowances, and the application of the 1969 national wage decision to salaries of members of the force.

If the Government was prepared to acknowledge that the increased expenditure of $12 million in these fields was due not to its making but to determinations by independent tribunals perhaps, with the advantage of hindsight, the Government might appreciate that there was reason over the past three years-I am adverting in particular to the Police Department-to go further into the red.

The Treasurer will visit Canberra next Wednesday. The Opposition does not know how the honorable gentleman will be received by the Prime Minister, and whether the

62 Supplementary Estimates [ASSEMBLY.] for Year 1969-1970.

right honorable gentleman will acknowledge the economic crisis in Victoria. We are not aware whether the Prime Minister will be prepared to give the Premier of Victoria an extra few million dollars to get him out of his trouble. If this does not happen, before the Treasurer presents his next Budget, he will be faced with a deficit exceeding $30 million, and that might be a conservative estimate. In view of these facts, the Opposition hopes that the Premier will be prepared to advise the State of the actual financial position after he has discussed these matters with the Prime Minister and Federal Treasurer. Previously the honorable gentleman has not been very successful on his visits to Canberra, and the Opposition can only assume that following next week's visit the State's finances will not be improved.

The effect of the Supplementary Estimates is that for the time being the Teaching Service, although not completely satisfied, is satisfied td some extent with the Teachers Trio: bunal's findings and that the police cadets are satisfied to some extent with the findings of the Police Service Board. The same applies to the hospital employees, although one could never say that the nurses were satisfied.

Mr. SCANLAN.-What about putting the Opposition into that category?

Mr. WILKES.-I do not wish to enter into an argument with the honorable member for Oakleigh. I am prepared to inform the Committee what the Opposition thinks about the financial crisis in Victoria. I am prepared further to inform the Committee that we d'O not think that by passing the Supplementary Estimates the financial position will be improved, or that this will convince sections of the Public Service that their l'Ot has been satisfied by the tribunals covering their salaries. The Government always asserts that that is the responsibility of the tribunal-not the Government. That is fair enough, and the Opposition accepts that situation,

but one could hardly assert that the hospital employees are satisfied with their determination or that the teachers are satisfied with theirs.

I point out that the over-expenditure of $12 million is not for a complete financial year and that the Government could be confronted with additional expenditure between now and when the Budget is brought down. One would have thought that the Government would be prepared to go into debt to a slightly greater extent to cover some of the huge deficiencies that exist in salary and wage structures in Government departments. Although I acknowledge that the Government does not concede that this is its responsibility, members of the Opposition have always maintained that, despite the existence of an independent tribunal, the responsibility lies with the Government. The honorable member for Oakleigh, who is interjecting, is no doubt becoming excited because he has been told in his electorate that the nurses are not satisfied-and rightly so-and that the teachers are not satisfied. The Minister of Education will probably agree on that point. Members of the Opposition contend that because these employees are not satisfied it does not mean that the Government has no responsibility in this regard or that because their conditions are qualified and established by a tribunal the Government has no responsibility.

Mr. JONA.-YOU want political interference with the tribunal.

Mr. WILKES.-We do not. I am grateful to the honorable member for Hawthorn for his interjection. We have seen political interference with tribunals; we have seen that as a result of Government action certain tribunals have not carried out their proper charter. This matter was raised in Parliament less than twelve months ago in respect of persons who were entitled to be members of the Teachers Tribunal and who were recommended to the Government. I am endeavouring to establish that there is some Government responsibility in addition to the responsibility


of the tribunal. The Government should not believe for a moment that because there is an over-expenditure of $12 million in these fields the employees will be satisfied.

I conclude by saying that members of the Opposition consider that the Government should have gone a step further and examined the deficiencies. The Chief Secretary has informed the House this afternoon, fairly and honestly, that problems in the Social Welfare Branch are largely financial. I do not doubt that, if he had the opportunity, the Minister would inform the House that the difficulties in the Police Department also are related to money. The Opposition contends that the Government must accept its responsibility and that it must be prepared to put before tribunals the critical situation that exists in departments; the tribunals should take that into consideration when they bring down judgments in particular instances. Members of the Opposition raise no objection to the amount of money that has been over-expended, but we are bound to inform the Government that it should accept the responsibility which I have outlined.

The motion was agreed to. The resolution was reported to the

House and adopted.

WAYS AND MEANS. The House went into Committee

of Ways and Means. Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secre

tary) .-1 move-That towards making good the Supply


The motion was agreed to, and the resolution was reported to the House and adopted.


1969-70) BILL. Leave was given to Sir Henry Bolte

(Premier and Treasurer) and Sir t\rthur Rylah (Chief Secretary) to

bring in a Bill to carry out the resolution of the Committee of Ways and Means.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) brought in a Bill to apply out of the Consolidated Revenue the sum of $12,982,672 to the service of the year 1969-70, and moved that it be read a first time.

The lTIotion was agreed to, and the Bill was read a first time, and passed through its remaining stages.

WHEAT MARKETING (SPECIAL QUOTAS) BILL.

This Bill was received from the Council and, on the motion of Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of Lands), was read a first time.

Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of Lands) .-1 move-

That this Bill be now read a second time. The grains division of the Victorian Farmers Union has reviewed the operation of the Wheat Marketing Act during the past season, and has submitted to the Minister of Agriculture proposals for a number of amendments which the uni'On considers would f.acilitate the operation of the wheat delivery quota scheme in this State. These proposals will be considered by the Government with a view to the introduction of any necessary amending legislation during the spring sessional period later this year.

However, one of the amendments recommended by the union relates to the ground on which a special quota may be granted in respect of seasons subsequent to the season 1969-70. The union regards this pa'rticular amendment to paragraph (b) of subsection ( 1) of section 34 'Of the Act as urgent because it can operate only in respect of the coming season if the necessary legislati'On is passed immediately. The reason for this is that the formula for the allocation of quotas for 1970-71 has already been determined, and growers are required to submit their applications for quotas not later than the 30th June next. Notifications of the quotas allocated

64 Wheat Marketing [ASSEMBLY.] (Special.Quotas) Bill.

by the quota committee will be issued within a few days after receipt of the .applica tions.

To enable growers to comply with the statutory requirement that applications for review of their qu'Otas must be lodged within 30 days of the date of issue of the prescribed quota notification, it is essential that this notification include advice as to the ground 'On which they may apply for a special quota. It will be appreciated, therefore, that if the ground for review is to be revised as recommended by the Victorian Farmers Union, the necessary legislation must be passed now, otherwise the issue of quota notifications and the determination of applications for special quotas will be delayed with inevitable dislocation of arrangements for the intake 'Of quota deliveries from the 1970-71 harvest.

The Government regards the Wheat Marketing Act as legislation which the industry itself sought in order to rationalize the delivery and storage of wheat. The Government is therefore prepared to consider any amendments which, in the opinion of the recognized industry body, the Victori'an Farmers Union, are necessary for the effective operation of the quota delivery scheme. It is in this light that the Government has considered the union's recommendation for amendof paragraph (b) of sub-section (1) of section 34 of the Act, and has decided that the reco.mmendation should be implemented. The amendments proposed by the union are embodied in the Bill now before the House which, for the reasons I have just outlined, has been intl'1oduced as a matter of urgency.

The Bill proposes in clause 2 the substitution ofa new paragraph (b) in sub-section (1) of section 34 of the Act specifying the ground which must be established before a special quota may be allocated in respect of seasons subsequent to 1969-70. When the existing provision was proposed by the Victorian Far,mers Union at the time of the drafting of the Act prior to last season, it was envisaged

Mr. Borthwick.

that special quotas granted in 1969-70 under the three categories specified in para.graph (b) IQf SUb-section (1) of sectIOn 34 wo~ld enable quotas to be reaso~ably adjusted having regard to the CIrcumstances of ea'ch case and the over-all quantity of wheat available for 'allocation.

The assumption was that ·all claims for special quotals on the grounds oonsidered by the Victorian Farmers Union to warrant special consideration would have been determined and finalized at the end of 1969-70, and that the quota and any special quota allocated to. a grower in that season would together form the basic quota to which the formula for allocation of his quota in subsequent seasons would be applied. That being so, it was considered at the time that provision for special quotas in seasons subsequent to 1969-70 should be made only on the ground of hardship due to causes not ascertainable or operative when quotas or special quotas were allocated for the season 1969-70. Accordingly paragraph (b) of sub-section (1) of section 34 'Of the Act was drafted on that basis.

Altogether some 7,100 applications for special quotas were received in 1969-70. Of these about 3,500 applications were granted under categories 1 and 2 of paragraph (a) of sub-section (1) of section 34-national service, illness or death, hail 'or fire damage and localized adverse seasonal conditions-and approximately 1,100 under category 3-heavy financial commitment. In terms of wheat, about 1.25 million bushels were allocated as special quotas under categories 1 and 2, and approximately 2 million bushels under category 3.

In reviewing the allocation of special quotas for 1969-70, it becam'e apparent to the Victorian Farmers Union that, whilrst special quotas granted under categories 1 and 2 could be regarded as finalizing the claims received because the grounds for application covered special circumstances which had arisen or occurred during the previous six seasons, special


quotas granted under category 3 on the ground of heavy financial commitment could be considered only on a year-to-year basis because of the changing circumstances involved.

For this reason, when recommending the formula for all'l~tion of individual quotas in 19'10-71, the Victorian Farmers Union decided that any special quotas allocated in 1969-70 under categories 1 and 2 of paragraph (a) of sub-section (1) of section 34 should be included in the basic quota to which the formula for 1970-71 would be applied, but that speCial quotas granted under category 3-heavy financial commitment-should be excluded. The formula for allocation of individual quotas in 1970-71 has therefore already been determined on that basis.

This means that provision has to he made whereby in respect of seasons subsequent to 1969-70 applications can be submitted and special quotas allocated on the ground of heavy financial commitment. The existing provision in paragraph (b) of subsection ( 1) of section 34 of the Act setting out the ground on which special quotas may be allocated for 1970-71 and future seasons does not specifically cover this point. Furthermore, the Victorian Farmers Union considers that the existing provision is vague and unsatisfactory in that it provides no guidance either to growers or to the review committee as to the basis on which applications for special quotas may be submitted or determined.

The quantity of wheat available for special quotas in 1970-71 is only 1. 6 million bushels and obviously some clear specification is needed as to the basis of allocation. The Victorian Farmers. Union has closely examined this matter, and considers that the allocation of special quotas in future seasons during the currency of the Act should be restricted to growers whose financial situation is such that their economic survival is threatened. It has therefore recommended that

Session 1970.-3

the ground on which special quotas may be allocated in 1970-71 and subsequent seasons shall be as set Gut in clause 2 of the Bill. It will be noted that in order to qualify under this clause an applicant must have undertaken, prior. to the 19th March, 1969, the clearadil&nd levelling of virgin land to ~lish its wheatgrowing capacity or his income from farming must have been severely diminished because of the imposition of wheat quotas. The Victorian Farmers Union has also recommended that two qualifications should operate in relation to the allocation of special quotas, and thes2 are specified in clause 3 of the Bill.

Firstly, ~he allocation of special quotas is to be restricted to cases where the review committee is satisfied that the applicant's net income frum his land during the previous financial year substantially exceeded his net income from other sources in the same period. This restriction will not apply in cases where the net farm income has been lowered by abnormal circumstances such as drought conditions. The purpose of the restriction is to ensure that the wheat available for allocation as special quotas is directed to those whose livelihood is dependent primarily on their farming operations.

Secondly, the total quantity of wheat which may be allocated by way of a quota and special quota to an applicant in any season is not to exceed the quantity of his highest seasonal delivery during the five seasons prior to 1968-69. It is the opinion of the Victorian Farmers Union that no applicant should receive a special quota which, together with his quota, would place him in a better position with regard to wheat deliveries than applied in his best delivery season during the quota averaging period. The season 1968-69 has been excluded because the union considers that it was an abnormal season in regard to both acreage sown and wheat delivered, following as it did the severe drought of 1967-68.

66 Wheat Marketing [ASSEMBLY.] (Special Quotas) Bill.

This Bill has been in troduced at the specific request of the Victorian Farmers Union, and the provisions incorporated in the measure represent the recommendations of that organization and have its full approval. As I indicated earlier, it is essential that this amending legislation be passed as a matter of urgency if the revised ground for allocation of special quotas is to operate in respect of the coming season. I commend the Bill to honorable members.

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).As the Minister of Lands has indicated, this is an urgent Bill. The Victorian Farmers Union approached members of the Opposition and acquainted them with the proposals prior to the introduction of this measure. The Opposition is seriously concerned at the grave situation in which the wheat industry is placed today, and consequently proposes to waive the normal practice of seeking an adjournment of the debate. My colleagues and I are prepared to proceed immediately with the debate on the Bill.

As the Minister indicated, the Victorian Farmers Union has sought the amending legislation to cover some loopholes which have become apparent to the wheat industry in the allocations of special quotas. By and large this Bill will create a situation where the committee charged with the responsibility of dealing with applications for quotas will have to satisfy itself that the net income of the applicants comes substantially from farming operations. Members of my party are in agreement with this proposal. However, it has been stated that the special and the existing quotas must not exceed the highest number of bushels delivered by the grower in anyone ·of the preceding five years. In his second-reading explanatory speech, the Minister of Lands stated-

The Government regards the Wheat Marketing Act as le~islation which .the ~dustry itself sought In order to rationalIze the delivery and storage of wheat.

That is a misleading statement, which is not quite correct. The need to establish quotas was brought about in the first place by the extraordinary action taken by the Commonwealth Minister for Primary Industry and the Commonwealth Treasurer. Prior to the 19'69-70 season, for the first time in the history of stabilization of the wheat industry and the orderly marketing of wheat, a limit was placed on the amount of money that the Reserve Bank could advance to meet the first payment. It became obvious that the wheat industry was confronted with a situation in which the Australian Wheat Board could purchase only a percentage of the current harvest. In desperation and in the interests of their members, representatives of the wheat industry attended a conference in Western Australia which resulted in the adoption of a wheat quota system. Therefore, the Government is not completely correct in saying that the industry asked for legislation to establish quotas. In fact, quotas were forced on the industry because of the action taken by the Federal Treasurer and the Minister for Primary Industry. It is important that that point be noted.

When the principal legislation was being debated in this House I pointed out that the real crunch could come in the 1970-71 season. The Minister in charge of the Bill may be interested to know that already 18 million bushels of the 1970-71 quota have been used because of the delivery of carry-over wheat from the 1969-70 season. This means that the Victorian quota for 1970-71 will be only 34 million bushels, and if the first advance payment remains at $1.10 a bushel the income of the industry will be reduced by 21.6 Rer cent. However, if the first advance, which is determined by the Commonwealth Government and the Australian Wheat Board, is reduced below $1.10 a bushel, the income of the industry will be further reduced proportionately.


It is a tragedy that the wheat industry has had to suffer a quota system, and I suggest that the Minister ought to give serious consideration to the establishment in Victoria of a grains production authority to control the production of all grains.

Mr. WHITING.-To take over from the industry?

Mr. WILTON.-Members of the Country Party have been the junior partners in the Federal coalition Government for twenty years and have done nothing to assist the wheat industry. All they have done is sit in the corner and make futile interjections. They have not put forward one constructive thought. This was reflected in the recent election results. If members of the Country Party have not yet received the message, there is no hope for them. They will merely be a passing phase in the political history of Victoria. The Minister should discuss with the grains division of the Victorian Farmers Union the possibility of establishing an authority to control the production of all grains in Victoria. This could be done without detriment to the industry. Because of the fluctuations which occur in international markets, the Australian Whea t Board could advise such an authority on the best types of grains to be produced to ~eet the demands of the market at any particular time, and the grower could be advised accordingly. If the Government is prepared to act sincerely in this matter and discuss it with the grains division of the Victorian Farmers Union, it could make a real contribution to the long-term interests of the industry.

The wheat industry is vital to Victoria and Australia. Victoria has what might be classed as the traditional wheat grower in that the size of farms is small in comparison with those in other States where large

pastoral companies with huge financial resources can switch from wool growing to wheat growing on a large scale. Those who have studied the wheat industry know that this has been part of the problem facing the industry at present. I hope the Minister will use his good offices and his talents to influence the Minister of Agriculture to examine my suggestion seriously.

I understand that the additional storages of 8 million bushels capacity which are to be constructed in Victoria will be filled this year, but the real problem is that only 34 million bushels of the coming harvest can be absorbed into the system, whereas the amount of wheat produced will be much higher than the figure I have quoted.

Some time ago, when I foreshadow .. ed an active black market in the sale of wheat, I was ridiculed by members of the Government and by the industry, but a black market is now operating on a large scale to the detriment of the industry. Therefore, I hope for once in its long career of mismanagement the Government will do something practical to assist the industry. The Government has an opportunity to grasp the nettle, take a step forward and make a worth-while contribution for the benefit of the wheat industry.

Members of the Opposition waived their right to see~ an adjournment of the debate because. they are concerned about the plight in which the wheat industry finds itself. The Opposition granted the Government leave to proceed with the second-reading debate because the Victorian Farmers Union assured it that the amendments contained in the Bill were necessary. My colleagues and I examined the Bill and conceded that it was a genuine attempt to plug the loopholes which had become apparent in the quota system. We believe the amendments contained in the Bill will strengthen the hand of the committee which is

68 Wheat Marketing [ASSEMBLY.] (Special Quotas) Bill.

charged with the responsibility of dealing with applications for special quotas. It should be remembered that the amendments relate to special quotas and not to quotas generally.

Mr. TREWIN (Benalla).-Members of the Country Party support the Bill, but we shall exercise our right to criticize it. We support the proposals in the interests of the wheat growers of Victoria, but point out the amendments contained in the measure will not assist many growers. However, it will assist some of those who are in financial difficulty and will give them a right of further appeal in regan;l to quotas. The Bill has been in troduced at the instigation of the Victorian Farmers Union and has the full support of the Minister of Agriculture and his departmental officers. Clause 2 relates to farmers who are developing land. It appears somewhat peculiar to allow a landholder, who is clearing land, to use this fact as reason to receive a special quota, although it is necessary for the task of developing the land to have been ~ommenced prior to 19th March, 1969.

By an amendment to paragraph (b) of sub-section (1) of section 34, a farmer will be entitled to seek a special quota if his income has been severely affected by the application of the wheat quota system. Probably, the incomes of the majority of wheat farmers are affected adversely by the quota system. In future, it will be possible for those who are adversely affected to seek additional quotas or a special quota under the legislation. The Wheat Quota Review Committee, which was operating during the last wheat season, did not have spelt 'Out for it in detail how it should draw the line of demarcation in this respect. As a result, a computer was used to determine whether a farmer had an opportunity of continuing in wheat production. Unfortunately, the use of the computer took away the personal touch which is essential in endeavouring to determine the future of a farmer. In farming, the personal touch is of paramount

importance. At first glance, many farmers could be considered to have no possible chance of recovering financially from certain circumstances, but if one knows the individual and his ability to operate his farm it may be possible to say, "This fellow will make good." Likewise, some farmers who had financial commitments and who had very good assets received a substantial special quota on the ground of financial hardship. This was possible because the provision in paragraph (b) of sub-section (I) of section 34 was not spelt out in sufficient detail. The provision in clause 2 will assist in rectifying this position.

It is interesting to note that the allocation of special quotas is to be restricted to cases where the review committee is satisfied that the applicant's net income from his land during the previous financial year substantially exceeded his net income from other sources in the same period. A person who had considerable assets in other areas could receive sympathetic consideration on the grounds of financial hardship because his farm is considered not to be as prosperous as it could be.

Proposed new sub-section (IB) of section 34, as contained in clause 3, defines the amount of wheat that can be obtained through a special quota. This is a necessary provision which will enable the review committee to spell out the· requirements of the legislation in no uncertain manner, I am aware that a crisis exists in the wheat industry but, as a grower, I feel I can look forward with reasonable confidence to the future of the industry. Obviously, certain limitations apply to wheat produc .. tion under the wheat stabilization plan and the international grains agreement, but I am sure that there is a future for the wheat industry. I believe this measure represents an attempt by the industry, through Par", liament, to relieve the burden on. wheat growers in Victoria.

· Wheat Marketing [17 JUNE, 1970.] (Special. Quotas) Bill. 69

I look forward to further amending legislation later in the year. 1" hope my party will have the opportunity that it has had during the debate on this Bill to discuss proposed amendments with the industry, so that the wheat growers will receive the consideration that they justly deserve. It should be appreciated that wheat farmers are human beings who have certain rights and who are producing foodstuffs for the community. As members of Parliament, we must ensure that their interests are adequately safeguarded.

A previous speaker referred to the national importance of the wheat industry. Because of the huge quantity of wheat being produced throughout the world, the wheat growers initiated this scheme to restrict production. I should like more wheat to be produced in Victoria, but as the States have the opportunity of determining the quotas--

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-The States do not have such an opportunity.

Mr. TREWIN.-The States have an opportunity of administering their own system within their own boundaries.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-The States do not fix the quotas.

Mr. TREWIN.-The quotas that are available for the Australian wheat growers have been determined by the Australian Wheatgrowers Federation in co-operation with the Minister for Primary Industry.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-By direction of the Minister for Primary Industry!

Mr. TREWIN.-The quotas were fixed in co-operation with the Minister because under the stabilization scheme a guaranteed amount of money is available only through the Commonwealth Treasury. The wheat growers are accepting the responsibility of meeting the costs of what has happened. I am prepared to

Session 1970.-4

accept my share of the costs so that we will not return to the grim days of the 1930s. If wheat growers were to operate under the conditions which existed in the 1930s, many of them would walk off their farms and they would take nothing with them. We now have an opportunity of softening the blow to some extent. The Australian Wheatgrowers Federation is considering-this was not forced on them by any Government or Minister -whether it can relieve the financial stress of the wheat growers if further cuts are necessary in the interests of the nation.

The Country Party supports this small Bill. Shortly, because of the courtesy of the Premier, I hope to examine the wheat industry in Canada where I may be able to learn something which can be applied to the good of the industry here.



Clauses 1 and 2 were agreed to.

Clause 3 (Amendment of No. 7894, s. 34).

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).Clause 3 will insert two new subsections in section 34 of the principal Act. Proposed new 'sub-section (IA) provides that the Wheat Quota Review Committee shall not allocate a special quota in respect of wheat unless it is satisfied that the applicant's net income derived from his land during a specific period substantially exceeds his net income from other sources during the same period. I direct the Minister's attention to the use of the word " substantially" in this provision. Tremendous variations can take place when different people define the word " substantially". I believe that it should be interpreted to mean about 80 per cent of a farmer's total income. I hope it is not envisaged that

70 Adjournment. [COUNCIL.] Swearing in of Members.

companies which derive perhaps 55 per cent or 60 per cent of their income from farming operations shall be accepted as being concerns whose net incomes from the land are substantially in excess of their net incomes from other sources. I ask the Government to watch this provision closely and, if necessary, to bring in further amending legislation. After all, the Opposition is always prepared to co-operate with the Government in passing legislation which affects large numbers of people.

The clause was agreed to.


ADJOURNMENT. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE: DAY OF

MEETING.


That the House, at its rising, adjourn until a day and hour to be fixed by Mr. Speaker, or, if Mr. Speaker is unable to act on account of illness or other cause, by the Chairman of Committees, which time of meeting shall be notified to each member of the House by telegram or letter.




Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-Is the Premier prepared to indicate to the House when it is proposed to meet for the Budget session?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-1 indicated earlier that the normal day of meeting for the spring sessional period is either the second or third Tuesday in September, depending upon where they fall on the calendar. The House will meet not later than the middle of September.


The House adjourned at 9.33 p.m.

1Jlrgislntiur (!tuuneil.

Tuesday, June 30, 1970.

At 3.2 p.m. the Council met pursuant to adjournment.

SWEARING IN OF MEMBERS. The Usher of the Black Rod

announced the arrival of the Commissioner (the Honorable Sir Henry Arthur Winneke, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Victoria) appointed by his Excellency the Governor to administer the oath of allegiance to the recently elected members of the Legislative Council.

Sir Henry Winneke took the President's chair, and announced the receipt of a Commission from His Excellency the Governor to administer the oath. The Commission was handed to and read by the Clerk.

The Clerk announced that returns h~d been received to writs issued by HIS Excellency for the election of members to serve for the provinces set out hereunder and by the endorsements on such writs it appeared that the following members had been elected:-

Province. Member. Ballaarat.-Murray Byrne. Bendigo . ......:Frederick James Granter. Boronia.-Vernon Thomas Hauser. Doutta Galla.-Randolph John Eddy. East Yarra.-Rupert James Hamer. Gippsland.-Daniel Eric Kent. Higinbotham. Harold Murray

Hamilton. Melbourne. Geoffrey. John

O'Connell. Melbourne North. - John Malcolm

Walton. Melbourne West. - Ronald William

Walsh. Monash.-Graham John Nicol. Northern.-Michael Alastair Clarke. North-Eastern. Ivan Archie

Swinburne. North-Western. - Bernard Phillip

Dunn. South-Eastern.-Hector Roy Ward.

Election of [30 JUNE, 1970,] president. 71

South-Western. - Owen Glyndwr Jenkins.

Templestowe. - Raymond William Garrett.

Western.-Kenneth Samuel Gross. The Clerk announced that a return

had been received to a writ issued by the President for the election of a member to serve for the Monash Province and by the endorsement on such writ it appeared that Charles Allen Moir Hider had been duly elected.

The recently elected members took and subscribed the oath of allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.

Sir Henry Winneke attested the Oath Roll, and then withdrew.

ELECTION OF PRESIDENT. The Clerk announced that the time

had arrived for proceeding to the election of a President.

The Hon. H. M. HAMILTON (Higinbotham Province) .-1 have the honour to nominate the Honorable Raymond William Garrett to be President of the Legislative Council. As honorable members of this House are well aware, Mr. Garrett has served his country with distinction in peace and in war as a member of the Royal Australian Air Force. Over the past three years, he has occupied the chair of this House, as President, with distinction and has displayed fairness and impartiality. Those qualities fit him to occupy the chair once again. Therefore, I propose that the Honorable Raymond William Garrett do take the chair of the Council as President.

The Hon. W. G. FRY (Higinbotham Province) .-It is my sincere belief that the Honorable Raymond William Garrett holds the confidence of this House, and in that belief I take great pleasure in seconding the proposal.

The Hon. R. W. GARRETT (Templestowe Province) .-1 am deeply conscious of the honour proposed to be conferred upon me, and I submit myself to the will of the House.

As there was no other nomination, the Clerk declared the Honorable Raymond William Garrett duly elected as President, and Mr. Garrett was conducted to the chair by his proposer and seconder.

The Hon. R. W. GARRETT' (Templestowe Province) .-Before I take the chair, I express my sincere thanks to honorable members for again electing me to the high office of President of the Legislative Council. I appreciate the confidence that honorable members have vested in me, and express my gratitude to them.

The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister for Local Government) .-Mr. President, in time-honoured fashion, you have been dragged, reluctant and protesting, to the chair. That signifies the long tradition of this House, a tradition which goes back to the dawn of Parliamentary government in the United Kingdom. It also signifies that you have succeeded a long line of very distinguished occupants of the chair of this House.

I express what every member of the Council would acknowledge, that in the past three years, as President, you have exhibited all the qualities which this House expects in its presiding officer. Therefore, I congra tula te you on your re-election to your high office. All honorable members know that you will carry out your duties with dignity, that you will preside over the turbulent affairs of this House with fairness and impartiality, that we shall all be proud of our President, and that we shall be able to carry out the duties and participate in the affairs of this House with full confidence in your capacity and presidential skill. On behalf of honorable members on the Government side of the House, I express sincere congratulations on your re-election.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH (Doutta Galla Province) .-Mr. President~ honorable members on the Opposition benches associate themselves. not only with the remarks of the Acting Leader of the House, but also with the remarks of the two honorable members who

72 Election '0/ [COUNCIL.] President.,

proposed and seconded your nomination. When you were first elected as President, we shook with fear and trepidation because of what we had heard about you. I am sure you will not object, Sir, if I tell the story. In the Royal Australian Air Force you had the nick-name, Spanner. It was alleged by those f'riendily disposed to you that you were always the one who was given the task of tightening things up. However, after you accepted the position of President, with your tightening up there came a spirit of co-operation in this House.

Presidents who preceded you graced this House with honour. dignity and fairness, and you have followed in their tradition. Therefore, on behalf of my colleagues of the Labor Party, 1 congratulate you on your re-election to the high office of President of the Legislative Council, and hope that you will be long spared to carry out the duties of the position. We shall be honoured to serve under you.

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE (North-Eastern Province) .-Mr. President on behalf of the members of the 'Country Party, I join with the Minister for Local Government and Mr. Tripovich in offering you sincere congr8:tulations on yo~r re-election to the hIgh office of PreSIdent of the Legislative Council. In the three years since you first filled the position, you have ~arri~d ?ut the duties of your office wIth dIgnIty and fairness to all honorable members. We have always appreciated the way in which you have allowed us reasonable latitude to ensure the best debate possible on whatever subject was under discussion.

You now follow Presidents who have been elected to the chair of the Legislative Council for a second term. 1 think, Sir, that you are the fourth President of the Council under whom 1 have served. During that long period, each President has approached his duties in a way slightly different from that of the others, but each has served with distinction

and has been fair to every honorable member, irrespective of political IViiews or philosophies.. Our Presidents have always endeared themselves to the members of this Council. I can assure you, Sir, on behalf of each member of the Country Party, that you have done the same during the past three years. 1 also assure you of the full co-operation of the members of the Country Party, and of any assistance that we can give to help you carry out your duties.

The PRESIDENT ·ELECT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-I thank the Minister for Local Government, Mr. Tripovich and Mr. Swinburne most sincerely for their generous comments. Over the past three years I have much appreciated the co-operation of all honorable members and I trust that over the next few years the same situation will continue. I assure honorable members that I shall do my best to carryon the traditions of this House.

The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister for Local Government) .-1 have to inform honorable members that His Excellency the Governor will be pleased to receive the President-Elect and members of the Council in the Library.


The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett) took the chair, and read the prayer.

PRESENTATION OF THE PRESIDENT TO THE GOVERNOR.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-I have to report that, accompanied by honorable members, 1 presented myself this day to His Excellency the Governor, who was pleased to ,approve of the choice made by the Council, and addressed me in the following terms:-MR. PRESIDENT,

I have much pleasure in congratulating you upon your re-election to the high and distinguished office of President of the Legislative Council.

Qualification [30 JUNE, 1970,] of a Member. 73

The able manner in which you have always discharged the various duties you have undertaken during your long Parliamentary career proves the wisdom of the honorable members of the Legislative Council in choosing you as their President.

I have every confidence that you will continue to fulfil the duties of that high and important office by holding fast to its age-old traditions and customs.

COMMISSION TO SWEAR MEMBERS.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett) informed the House that he had received from His Excellency the Governor a Commission authorizing him to administer the oath of allegiance to such members as had not already taken and subscribed the same since their election.

QUALIFICATION OF A MEMBER.

The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister for Local Government).-With great reluctance, I raise a matter which concerns a member of this House and the House as a whole. The AttorneyGeneral has drawn to my attention a matter which appears to put in question the qualification' of a member declared to be elected at the recent general election.

Therefore, it devolves upon me, as Acting Leader of the House, as a repugnant duty and one which I think would not be welcomed by any member, to raise this question. Once a question such as this has been raised, I believe the House has no option but to deal with it and to take any necessary steps to resolve it, both for its own sake and, perhaps more importantly, for the sake of the member concerned.

I propose, therefore, to move what I regard as an appropriate motion which will indicate the course of action I suggest the House should take. I intend then to 'Outline to the House the constitutional background pf the motion to show why it is moved and why the course of action is proposed.

Next, as I am bound to do, I shall give the House the reasons' why it should act as the motion indicates. 1 now formally move-

That this House requires the Court of Disputed Returns to hear and determine whether the Honorable Ronald William Walsh is a person capable of being elected a member of the Legislative Council or of continuing to be a member, pursuant to the qualification requirements. of section 73 of The Constitution Act Amendment Act 19158 (No. 6224).

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-Does the motion have a seconder?

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE (Minister of Public Works) .-1 second the motion.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH (Doutta Galla Province) .-On a point of order, will the Minister for Local Government outline the initial action which prompted the Attorney-General to act in the manner referred to by the Minister?

The PRESIDENT.-There is no point of order, but the Minister may answer the question should he desire to do so.

The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister for Local Government) .-It is in the interests of the House that every known fact should be brought to light. 1 am prepared to arrange for the Leader of the Labor Party to see any file, even a confidential one, on, the matter. However, I believe that 1 have explained the background of the matter and the reasons for suggesting the action proposed. 1 do not believe that the kind of background referred to by Mr. Tripovich is relevant, because the real question relates to the qualification of a member.

I now remind the House of the constitutional situation. I suppose " remind" is the wrong word because most honorable members have never come into contact with this sort of thing in their time, and perhaps I should say that I shall explain the. constitutional ·situation. So far as I

74 Qualification [COUNCIL.] of a Member.

am aware, such a matter has not arisen in this Chamber for 40 years or more; certainly it has never arisen in the present form because the Act was amended in 1961 to set up the Court of Disputed Returns for just such an eventuality.

The motion refers to section 73 of The Constitution Act Amendment Act, and I think I should start from there. Section 73 appears under the heading " Qualification Etc. of Members" and reads-

Any natural-born or naturalized subject of Her Majesty, who is of the full age of twenty-one years, shall be qualified to be elected a member of the Council:

Provided that no person shall be capable of being elected or continuing to be a member of the Council who-

(QI) is a judge of any court of Victoria;paragraph (b), which refers to a minister of religion, has been repealed-

(c) has been convicted of treason or any felony or infamous crime in any part of Her Majesty's dominions; or

(d) is an un certificated bankrupt or insolvent.

Therefore, there are three provisos to the general provision. Section 74 follows-

(1) If any person who is not qualified to be or not capable of being elected a member ·of the Council is elected and returned as a :member of the Council such election and :return may be declared by the Court of Disputed Returns to be void to all intents and purposes.

(2) If any person so elected and returned contrary to the provisions of this Part sits or votes in the Council, he shall be liable to a penalty of Two hundred pounds to be recovered by any person who sues for the same in any court of competent jurisdiction.

Therefore, there is involved in this matter not only the question of qualification but also that of penalty.

The course proposed in the motion is covered by section 300 of The Constitution Act Amendment Act, which appears under the heading "Qualifications and Vacancies" and reads-

Any question respecting the qualification of a member of or respecting a vacancy in the Assembly or the Council may be referred


by resolution of the Assembly or of the Council (as the case requires) to the Co~rt of Disputed Returns and the Court of DISputed Returns shall thereupon have jUFisdiction to hear and determine the question. That is the sense of the motion now before the House. The constitution of the court is found in section 280 of the Act, which decrees that the Supreme Court shall be the Court of Disputed Returns. The powers and duties of the court are set out in sections 285 and 303 of the Act. I think all I need to say about that is that the Court of Disputed Returns has full power to summon witnesses, to examine them on oath, and to have documents produced. Three other powers of the court, to which I think I had better refer, are found in section 285. These are-

(e) To declare that any person who was returned as elected was not duly elected;

(f) To declare any candidate duly elected who was not returned as elected;

(g) To declare any election absolutely void.

The House should know what happens if it agrees to the motion. Section 301 of the Act provides-

When any question is referred to the Court of Disputed Returns under this Division the President or the Speaker (as the case requires) shall transmit to the Court of Disputed Returns a statement of the question upon which the determination of the court is desired, together with any proceedings papers reports or documents relating to the question in the possession of the Council or the Assembly (as the case requires).

This is the legislative background to the matter. I am proposing that this Chamber find that there is a question as to the qualification of a member and that it should take the action laid down under the Act to have the matter determined. The action is the transmission of the question by you, Mr. President, to the Supreme Court, sitting as the Court of Disputed Returns, together with any documents that may be produced so that the matter may be resolved once and for all.

It is my bounden duty to lay before the House such material as I think will be sufficient to convince it that

Qualification [30 JUNE, 1970.] of a Member. 75

such a question does exist. Before I do so, I must say that I propose to lay before the House only such matters as I hope are relevant to the question. I do not intend to go into the merits of the case because I believe that this is a matter for the court. I certainly do not propose to go into the merits of the legislation because that is not a matter for the present proceedings and members may have their own views about it. I do not believe this Chamber has any choice, once the matter is raised, but to try to have it resolved. I believe the matters to which I shall now refer show that there is such a question which ought to be resolved.

I produce, first, a criminal history sheet relating to one Ronald William Walsh, which sets out a number of convictions. It is covered by a statutory de clara tion by J ames Ronald Milner, Superintendent of Police, which reads-

I, James Ronald Milner, of Criminal Investigation Branch, Police Headquarters, Russell Street, Melbourne, in the State of Victoria, Superintendent of Police, do solemnly and sincerely declare-

1. That I have examined the police records referring to one Ronald William Walsh.

2. That I have questioned Senior Detective Brian Francis Murphy concerning his knowledge of Ronald William Walsh.

3. That I believe the criminal history sheet annexed and marked "A" refers to the said Ronald William Walsh who successfully stood for Parliament for Melbourne West electorate at the elections held on the 30th day of May, 1970.

It has been sworn by Superintendent Milner. He refers to a Senior Detective Brian Francis Murphy. There is another statutory declaration by Senior Detective Murphy, but I do not propose to read it. It is available to the House. As I have said, I am attempting to confine the material to what is absolutely relevant to this issue of whether there is a question of qualification. Senior Detective Murphy says that he has known Ronald William Walsh since they were on national service training in about the year 1949; that they

both resided in the South Melbourne area for approximately twenty years; that the said Ronald William Walsh did admit to a number of convictions, including one which I shall mention; and he concludes by saying, "I know that the Ronald William Walsh referred to above is the Ronald William Walsh who successfully stood for Parliament for Melbourne West electorate at the elections on the 30th day of May, 1970".

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-There is only one charge which is relevant to the motion.

The Hon. R. J. HAMER.-I am trying my best to confine it to the real issue. I agree with Mr. Tripovich that only one conviction is relevant. It is a conviction on the 14th February, 1950, in the Children's Court at South Melbourne. On the criminal history sheet it is' labelled "assault and robbery" and I produce the certificate of the summary conviction in the Children's Court at South Melbourne on the 14th February, 1950, which is certified by the clerk of the court, and shows that the defendant, Ronald William Walsh, was charged with having committed a breach of Act No. 3664, section 114, robbery with violence, that he was sentenced

to six weeks' imprisonment, and that the sentence was suspended upon the defendant's entering into a bond of five pounds to be of good behaviour for two years. A condition of the bond was that he was to abstain from consuming intoxicating liquor for two years. That is the certificate of the conviction that I have referred to. I produce it to the House.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVlcH.-Can you furnish some details associated with the crime itself? The certificate does not tell the whole story.

The Hon. R. J. HAMER.-I have no knowledge of this. I have only the certificate of conviction. Those facts having come to light, the advice of the Crown Solicitor was sought as to the position.


The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-Who sought the advice?

The Hon. R. J. HAMER.-The Under-Secretary.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVlcH.-On whose petition?

The Hon. R. J. HAMER.-I do not think it was anyone's petition. It was a question which had arisen, and he sought the advice that I now produce to the House.

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-But who requested him to give this advice?

The Hon. R. J. HAMER.-I presume that somebody raised the question.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-Who is that someone?

The Hon. R. J. HAMER.-I have not the faintest idea, and I do not think it is relevant.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-Order! I do not think it is relevant.

The Hon. R. J. HAMER.-I now produce the report and advice of th~ Crown Solicitor on the facts which I have revealed to the House. It is a very long opinion, and I propose to deal with only three clauses of it. As would be expected, much of it is a discussion of the effect of a conviction in the Children's Court, and I think it is important for this Chamber to consider the conclusions which were reached.

I shall now read paragraphs 2, 3 and 28. Paragraph 2 states-

It appears that, of the several offences of which the candidate has been convicted, only one requires consideration for present purposes. That conviction was recorded at the Children's Court at South Melbourne on 14th February, 1950. The offence is shown on the " Criminal History Sheet" as "Assault and Robbery" and the sentence is shown as:-

" Six weeks suspended on bond of to be of Good Behaviour for two years and during that time to abstain from intoxicating liquor; as Ronald William Walsh."

Paragraph 3, which is important to the House, reads-

Section 114 of the Crimes Act 1928 provided, inter alia-

"Whosoever . . . robs any person and at the time of or immediately before or immediately after such robbery beats strikes or uses any other personal violence to any person, shall be guilty of felony, and shall be liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than fifteen years."

That paragraph and the reference to section 114 of the Crimes Act is relevant to the provision in section 73 as to the qualification of a member. After a long legal discussion--

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-That is emanating from the Children's Court.

The Hon. R. J. HAMER.-That was the point of the opinion. I now come to the conclusion which I think is what the House will wish to accept as a guide to its attitude. Paragraph 28 of the report states-

I am of the opinion that, if the candidate was convicted at the Children's Court at South Melbourne on 14th February, 1950, of the offence of robbery with violence, he is, within the meaning of section 73 of The Constitution Act Amendment Act 1958, a person who has been convicted of felony in a part of Her Majesty's dominions and is therefore incapable of being elected to be a member of the Legislative Council. It must, however, be said that it is not impossible that the Supreme Court would take the opposite view.

The issue is now clear. I believe we have some facts, an identification, and an opinion from "a senior law officer of the Crown that a person is incapable of serving as a member of this House. That is not the final word. That is not a decision. Whilst I do not discuss the merits of it, I submit to the House that this question of qualification has arisen and that the House has no choice but to seek a resolution of the whole matter. A state of uncertainty exists involving both this House and the member concerned. I have never met the member, and I know nothing for or against him, but I believe that any member whose qualification is in

Qualification [30 JUNE, 1970,] of a Member. '17

question would wish the matter to be resolved as soon as possible. The whole purpose of the motion is to make that possible.

I submit, therefore, that on the outline that I have furnished to the House there is a question concerning the qualification of a member within the meaning of section 300 of The Constitution Act Amendment Act and that the appropriate course to be adopted by the House is to carry the motion to enable the Court of Disputed Returns to examine the case as a whole, to reach a conclusion, and to resolve the whole question. I do not think that any member of the House would desire a particular outcome. I believe that the House desires to know what the position is, and the course now proposed will have that result. I therefore commend the motion to the House.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. GarreU).-Before calling on Mr. Tripovich, I believe Mr. Walsh should have the opportunity, should he so desire, of rebutting the statements made by the Minister for Local Government. It is a matter for Mr. Walsh to decide whether he wishes to speak first.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH (Doutta Galla Province) .-In view of the paucity of the arguments advanced by the Acting Leader of the House in this matter, I have no hesitation in saying to Mr. Walsh, who is a newly elected member of this House, that he should not be compelled at this stage to make any answer to the charge. I thought that the Minister would have put forward a much more substantial case, particularly having regard to the fact that the incident referred to happened twenty years ago to a boy of sixteen years of age in circumstances of which we have no knowledge. These charges need not be dealt with at the Children's Court, and they need not be dealt with as complete charges; they can be dealt with summarily because of lack of

finance or lack of correct advice. I do not know, and I certainly do not wish to ask Mr. Walsh about the matter because I do not think he should be involved at this time, but it is possible that he might not have been convicted if the actual facts of the case had been known.

This is a unique case, Mr. President, and I believe there are no precedents to guide you in your actions in the matter. I say at the outset that I deeply appreciate being forewarned of this charge. Under the constitution of the House the

,matter could have been raised in this Chamber without forewarning. It simply could have been raised for the House to examine.

I propose to submit arguments to show why this motion should be rejected. The evidence on which it is based is little better than hearsay. I appeal to the House to take cognizance of the provisions of a United Kingdom Act relating to minors.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-Order! The provisions of an Act of the United Kingdom are hardly relevant to Australia.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-The principle associated with the Act is relevant to human beings everywhere, not only in the United Kingdom. The Children's Court Act of 1928, contained, in section 28, provisions similar in effect to those contained in section 51 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933 of the United Kingdom and I commend that principle to members of the Government party when they vote on the motion.

The Hon. R. J. HAMER.-Is Mr. Tripovich quoting from the opinion of the Crown Solicitor?

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-Yes. The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister

for Local Government) .-On a point of order, I know that there are what could be called emotional issues in this matter and I tried not to trespass

78 Qualification rCOUNCn..] of a Member.

beyond what was absolutely necessary. However, I submit that a dis-cussion of the merits of the case or of the law is entirely irrelevant to the issue. We may not like the law, but that is not the pOint. What is sought is a means 'Of 'Obtaining a res'Olution of the present problem. Therefore, Mr. President, I seek your ruling on whether honorable members are at liberty to discuss the law as it stands or whether they ought to confine their remarks to whether or not the question of qualification exists.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-Order! I do not think this is the subject of a point of order in the true sense of the term, but the Minister for Local Government did adhere fairly and simply to a charge sheet or a crime sheet, as we might call it. This is an emotional matter and I do not wish to restrict Mr. Tripovich in his method of handling it, but I believe it is a question of the certificate of summary conviction or of the order. The House cannot criticize the Act as it stands. It is on the statute-book and I have studied it. If I remember correctly, it states that if a felony is committed at any time the person committing the felony is precluded from sitting in the House. Whether this is right or wrong is a matter of law and should not be debated at this stage, but I shall permit a reasonable amount of latitude during the debate.

The Hon. J. M. WALTON (Melbourne North Province) .-On a point of order, I submit that the Minister for Local Government, in putting his case, referred to the report made by the Crown Solicitor to the UnderSecretary. I am sure the honorable gentleman will admit that he did so on at least three occasions. In doing so the honorable gentleman was making out a case for this matter to be referred to the Court of Disputed Returns. Members of the Labor Party are endeavouring to make out a case that it should not be referred to the court, and therefore it is necessary for us to refer to parts of the report made by the Crown Solicitor.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-Order! I have already stated that I do not wish to restrict Mr. Tripovich in the manner in which he submits his case, but the House cannot consider whether the law is right or wrong. The law is on the statute-book and stands. A certain amount of reference to the report of the Crown Solicitor will be allowed.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH (Doutta Galla Province) .-1 want to put on record the provisions of section 51 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933 of the United Kingdom, which states-

No conviction or finding of guilty of a child or young person shaH be regarded as a conviction of felony for the purposes of any disqualification attaching to a felony. If the member referred to had been elected to the Legislative Assembly, there could be no challenge under the constitution of that House. He would have taken his seat and the House would have proceeded normally. Eventually he could have become Premier of the State and no challenge could have issued to his qualification, but because of the provisions of section 73 of The C01?-stitution Act Amendment Act hIS right to sit in this House is challenged. The Minister for Local Government has seen fit to rely on a conviction in the Children's Court in 1950. If the honorable gentleman had gone back to 1940 he might have found that the honorable member referred to committed a more serious criminal offence in that year and perhaps was not caught.

The Government did not have to produce this case. Members of my party have tried to find out who was the informant in the case and we have been unable to do so. I have examined the file for this purpose. The Constitution Act Amendment Act provides that any candidate associated with an election can petition the Court of Disputed Returns disputing the result of the election. Any voter at the election could make a similar petition. This was not done. The election was held, the results were declared and the other candidates congratulated the successful candidate and made no


reference to this subject. Because Mr. Dillon was informed that the successful candidate had committed a felony when he was a boy, it has been suggested that the successful candidate is disqualified under the Act. There was no reason why this matter should have been raised in the House.

If the Government has an ulterior motive-and I believe it has-in relation to this challenge it could have acted through a petition of its own candidate at the election. This 'is low politics, if I may call it that. Therefore, I propose ;vo invite the House-even if Ronald William Walsh did commit an offence which could be termed a felonybefore it passes judgment to consider the reasons that I propose to put forward. I want to be informed of the circumstances associated with the offence and the legal advice given to Mr. Walsh during the hearing of the case. That might have been nonexistent. He might have been advised to have the case dealt with summarily and as a result was sentenced to six weeks' imprisonment, when he was ,a boy of sixteen years of age, and released on a good behaviour bond for two years and told to refrain from taking intoxicating liquor. It must have been a heinous offence! There was no need for the Government, of its own volition, to raise this matter by a motion in the House; it could have achieved its purpose by using the powers provided in section 279 of The Constitution Act Amendment Act which states-

The validity of any election or return may be disputed by petition addressed to the Court of Disputed Returns and not otherwise.

Why has this motion been moved? Does the Government want the seat? Does it want to achieve a certain result by means of this motion? If it does it would have been much fairer to raise the matter through a petition made by its own candidate, and for the Liberal Party to bear the cost of its own desires. It should not have encountered any difficulties in doing that.

I hope I do not transgress your ruling, Mr. President, but I am stating my view based on the fact tha t Mr. Walsh is not answering this case because he has no case to answer. The House has been informed that this was an act-a felony -committed by a boy of sixteen years of age for which he was charged in the Children's Court. Legal advice was obtained as a result of a person or persons unknown giving information to the Under-Secretary. The Under-Secretary sought advice from the Crown Solicitor, and Mr. Downey, not Mr. Murray, supplied the opinion. I am not legally trained, and therefore have not the legal knowledge of my confrere, the Minister for Local Government, on this issue, but in every clause of his opinion Mr. Downey advances arguments for and against. In paragraph 23 he states-

In my opinion, section 3 of the Civil Rights of Convicts Act of 1828 has no application in relation to paragraph (c) of the proviso to section 73 of The Constitution Act Amendment Act 1958.

He then states the opinion that the Minister has quoted-

I am therefore of opinion that, if the candidate was convicted in the Children's Court at South Melbourne on 14th February, 1950, of the offence of robbery with violence, he is, by virtue of paragraph (c) of the proviso to section 73 of The Constitution Act Amendment Act 1958, incapable of being elected to be a member of the Legislative Council.

I now wish to examine the distinction between law and justice on this issue. I have already pointed out that, if Mr. Walsh had been elected to the Legislative Assembly, no question would have arisen. Who knows whether the Premier, or previous Premiers of this State, did not at some stage when they were boys commit offences similar to that of which my colleague has been accused? Who knows whether they were a bit lucky not to be caught and therefore have not had tQ face up to 'such a situation? But even criminals have rights, and the Civil Rights of Convicts Act 1828 restores fundamental rights to criminals. If a person is


found guilty and is sentenced for a crime, when he has served his sentence his position is restored. Will not the Government, out of human decency, restore the position of my friend and take the case on petition to the Court of Disputed Returns through the action of the Liberal Party candidate? Would that not be preferable to the action that the Government has taken today?

I revert to Mr. Downey's opinion, where he said in clause 28-

I am of opinion that, if the candidateI emphasize the word "if"-was convicted at the Children's Court at South Melbourne on 14th February, 1950, of the offence of robbery with violence, he is, within the meaning of section 73 of The Constitution Act Amendment Act 1958, a person who has been convicted of felony ,in a part of Her Majesty's dominions and is therefore incaFable of being elected to be a member 0 the Legislative Council. Mr. Downey does not stop there. In keeping with the whole of his opinion, page for page, as he makes one point he makes another point in rebuttal. He goes on to say-It must, however, be said that it is not impossible that the Supreme Court would take the opposite view.

It is useless for the Government at this stage to say, "We have to protect the prestige of this House" and that it is forced to take the proposed action. The Minister for Local Government said that the Government was reluctant to act. Of course, that is so; it raced in and created a situation on this issue when by petition and within 40 days it could have challenged this case at any stage in the Court of Disputed Returns.

The Hon. R. J. HAMER.-I do not think so.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-It could be done by petition. Section 279 states that a challenge should be by petition and not 'Otherwise. Why does not the Government act in this manner? My colleagues feel as deeply about this matter as I do.

In fairness, and in case someone becomes a little alarmed about the charges against my colleague-the

Minister has indicated that there is a number of them-I point out that in relation to a charge laid on 6th October, 1950, Mr. Walsh was fined $4 in default seven days' imprisonment. That must have been a beauty! On 22nd October, 1952, a charge that had been laid was withdrawn. On 13th July, 1953, a charge laid involved the use of insulting words. That is a dreadful charge! The Premier could have been convicted of that charge within the past fortnight, and the Prime Minister, Mr. Gorton, could have provided the evidence. In that case, Mr. Walsh was fined $6 in default fourteen days' imprisonment. He was again charged on 27th September, 1954, and the case was dismissed. There was a further charge on 24th June, 1955, and again the case was dismissed. Why should these charges appear on a man's crime sheet? Of course, they look bad, but, if they are not substantiated, I consider that they should not appear on the sheet.

In the case in question, this young man did commit an offence, and, like many other persons, possibly due to lack of finance or bad advice, agreed to be dealt with summarily. How many other persons have reached that decision for the reasons I have mentioned? The person concerned was dealt with summarily, was sentenced to 'Six weeks' gaol and was placed on bond to be of good behaviour for two years. Is it not better to be dealt with summarily and get it over with than go to heavy expense in trying to save the good name of the individual? At that time, Mr. Walsh was a minor, and his parents had to make the decision purely on what they could afford. Why should this charge be brought against him at this stage in his life? He is a wharf labourer, and there are certain dangers related to his occupation. There is nothing wrong with a person being a wharf labourer. One of the dangers associated with that job could be the use of insulting words. A person has to defend himself if he is attacked; if another person says

Qualification [30 JUNE, 1970.1 of a' Member. 81

something to. him he is entitled to s~y something in return. This applies to. politicians as well as wharf labourers.

I shall not say that Mr. Walsh has led an exemplary life, but I guarantee that he has led a life equally as good as that of 90 per cent of the members assembled in this Chamber. But because he made this slip-many slips have been made by other personswhen he was sixteen years of age, the Government is attempting to convince honorable members that it is acting in the interests of this Chamber in attempting, by its motion and at public expense, to preclude Mr. Walsh from taking his seat in this House.

Let us get down to the political side of this matter. Why is the Government taking this action? Does it want this seat? Is there a sincere desire on the Government's part that· the candidate who was elected will be found by the Court of Disputed Returns not to have been elected? The court is empowered to make such a finding. Is the Government hoping that its candidate who was not elected will be deemed to be elected so that, for the first and only time in its history, the Liberal Party will, as a result of the mistake made by a man when he was sixteen years of age, have a representative of Melbourne West Province in this Chamber?

I appeal to the decency of the members of this House, and invite honorable members to reject this motion. If the Liberal Party or the Government is determined to get this seat, it should pr'Oceed by petition at its 'Own expense to the Court of Disputed Returns where the whole matter could be thrashed out. If it is desired to determine the matter, it should be done on the petition of the candidate or of two supporters of the Liberal Party in the electorate of Melbourne West Province.

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE (North-Eastern Province) .-Tonight, we face a position unique during the 24 years in which I have been a

member of this House. The motion before the Chair questions the right of 'One of its members to remain a member. In earlier days, these matters were dealt with by a committee of the House set up for the purpose 'Of deciding whether a member had the right to be returned. I understand that there have been cases in which this has happened. In the absence of the Leader of the House I am the member with the longest service here and I have not heard such a motion moved before. The House must come to a decision whether, under The Constitution Act Amendment Act, a member elected at the recent poU is qualified to remain a member.

The Country Party has examined the pOSition. Its members were given a copy of the brief provided by the Crown Solicitor, and have studied it. As Mr. Tripovich has said, there are arguments for and against. This is probably something which both he and I, as non-legal men, do not fully understand. Legal practitioners seem to be able to argue both ways and to come down on one side or the other, or in the middle, and this often intrigues us. My party has decided to support the motion for one reason, that the qualification of a member has been challenged and it believes that the right and proper body to determine that qualification is the Court of Disputed Returns of the Supreme Court of Victoria. The court is set up for that purpose, and this House is not.

I do not want to enter into the pros and cons of whether the record should contain certain information. Evidence has been adduced that a certain act was committed, and Acts of Parliament which lay down certain procedures have been referred to. It is in the interests 'Of the member concerned that the case be dealt with by the Court of Disputed Returns so that he, all other members 'Of this House, and the people of Victoria will know whether the points raised are correct or incorrect. This House is not qualified to make


~ decision on this point, nor w·as it Intended that it should be. The Act was amended so that these matters would be dealt with away from the atmosphere of the House and be tried. in a normal way. The Act provides for the protection of the rights of the person concerned. All the matters raised by Mr. Tripovich ~ould be considered by the court. It IS for those reasons that the Country Party has decided to support the motIOn.

. The Hon. Ml!RRAY BYRNE (MinIster of ~ublI~ Wor~s) .-Despite what Mr. Tnpovlch may have inlplied I am satisfied that no member of this House derives any satisfaction at all from being associated with the motion. Although Mr. Tripovich implied that the Government party has certain motives in this matter a perusal of the Act will show that' to be complete nonsense. Whatever m·ay happen to Mr. Walsh if this mOti.on is carried by the House, irresp.ect~ve of. whether his eligibility to Sit. In thIS Chamber is upheld, 1 b~heve that the political position WIll be the same. It is fair to say that whoever represents the province which Mr. Walsh represents at this moment will probably be a member of the Labor Party. Unfortunately our duty is abundantly clear and th~ law relating to these matters is also clear. The position has been very fairly presented to the House by my Acting Leader, the Mini'ster for Local Government.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-Why did you not proceed by petition?

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE.-The result would be exactly the same. Half an hour ago, one half of the members of this Council took an oath to obey the laws of this State, and some three years ago the other members took an oath to uphold the law. We must do this, whether we want to or not. Unfortunately, much of the matter which Mr. Tripovich eloquently and movingly raised is irrelevant. 1 am not anxious to become involved -and 1 think it would be improper for any member to become involved-

in.a de:bate <:>n the matters which Mr. Tnpovich raIsed. Mr. Tripovich said that the offence in question was allegedly committed twenty years ago and that it should not be raised after .that time. Again, unfortunately, that IS not the issue.

. Mr. ~ripovich also raised another InterestIng point, namely, that an Offence committed by a mere boy of ~Ixteen y~ars of age, and dealt with In the Chlld~en's Court, is now raised to debar hIm from sitting in this House. That is an important point an~ .1 was surprised when 1 read th~ opmIOn of the Crown Solicitor on this I did not think that an offence dealt with in the Children's Court some twenty years ago would stand against a man entering Parliament. Unfortunately, that, too, is irrelevant. Mr Tripovich raised a number of othe; considerations, and again he spoke with great feeling. He spoke of the good character of his colleague, Mr. Walsh. It would be improper for me to join issue with Mr. Tripovich on that, because this is not a court of law and we are not here as judge and jury to judge Mr. Walsh. If that were the position, I would examine the file· ~ wo~ld have the right to go through It mmutely and to discuss at great length matters which may be recorded. I hope that no one on the Government side of the House doe'S that, because it would be improper.

Mr. Tripovich said that the Government had acted in great haste and tha t there was some other way in which this matter could be determined. He stated that the defeated candidate, or two people who lived in the province of Melbourne West, would have the right to petition the Court of Disputed Returns. That would be improper and unfair to Mr. Walsh. If there is any merit in the situation, it is that the question is raised immediately, for the benefit of Mr. Walsh. Mr. Tripovich read the section of the Act which is relevant and he knows, because he informed the House-and, certainly, my Acting Leader informed the House-that for


every day Mr. Walsh sits in the House he could be liable to a penalty of $400.

Notice of the position was given, and relevant information has been supplied. It is certainly proper that the matter be dealt with at the first opportunity and that it be determined immediately after Mr. Walsh has taken the oath of allegiance and assumed his seat in this House. In my view it would be completely improper for a defeated candidate on the say-so of the elected people who may have some interest, whether they be Liberal members or whoever they may be, to challenge Mr. Walsh. This motion is the proper way for this matter to be brought before the Court of Disputed Returns.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVlcH.-The Act provides for it.

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE.-I know it does. This method is the proper and correct way to proceed. We should be at fault if we did not proceed in this way. Unfortunately, our duty is abundantly clear. The law in relation to this matter is also clear, and because matters not relevant to the motion have been raised, I again direct to the attention of the House the relevant section 73, which has already been quoted by the Minister for Local Government. The operative section, which is clear, states, inter aZia-

Provided that no person shall be capable of being elected or continuing to be a member of the Council who-

(a) is a judge of any court of Victoria;

(c) has been convicted of treason or any felony or infamous crime in any part of Her Majesty's Dominions.

That is the present law, although we may not like it. Section 300, which has been clearly enunciated by the Minister for Local Government, and which is also relevant, states-

Any question respecting. the qualificati~n of a member of or respectmg a vacancy m the Assembly or the Council may be referred by resolution of the Assembly or of the Council (as the case requires) to the

Court of Disputed Returns and the Court of Disputed Returns shall thereupon have jurisdiction to hear and determine the question.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-You should read section 279.

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE.-The results are the same.

The Hon. J. M. TRIPOVICH.-The results might be the same, but the motive differs.

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE.-The motive does not differ. The Minister for Local Government has raised a suggested disability. The question has not been raised by any Government member for a political motive; the opinion has been given by one of the highest legal officers in Victoria.

The relevant sections of The Constitution Act Amendment Act have been read to the House and the legal opinion has also been read. These can be read by Mr. Tripovich until he is black in the face; he can quote, as he did, the law in the United Kingdom. Again, that is irrelevant. An opinion was obtained from an independent person who has no political bias in this matter. Page 15 of that document states, inter alia-

I am of the opinion that, if the candidate was convicted at the Children's Court at South Melbourne on 14th February, 1950, of the offence of robbery with violence, he is within the meaning of section 73. . . . .

It does not matter what Mr. Tripovich or anyone else in this House thinks; it is the opinion of the law officer concerned and it would be open for anyone at any time to challenge Mr. Walsh On this matter. The opinion goes on to state that this is in fact a felony, but it is possible that the Supreme Court may take a different view.

Today, we do not sit in judgment on Mr. Walsh; a question of his eligibility has been raised and it has been substantiated by a legal opinion from one of the most senior legal officers in Victoria. Mr. Tripovich has questioned whether the offence dealt with by the Ch'ildren's Court was 'in fact a felony. That is

84 Qualification [COUNCIL .. ] of a Member.

arguable; it is a matter of law which you, Mr. President, have stated needs to be determined not by Mr. Tripovich or by me. The question of the eligibility of Mr. Walsh can be raised and be substantiated or not in a fair and proper way. By agreeing to this motion honorable members will not pr~judge Mr. Walsh. The matter will not be determined by honorable members in this pOlitica! are!la, ~ut by the highest court In VIctOrIa, an independent body, the Supreme Court. It will hear arguments, Mr. Walsh will have the protection of the law and the matter will be determined'in a fair and proper way.

It is in the interests of Mr. Walsh to have this matter determined immedia tely so tha t no person can challenge him on these issues on trumped-up 'evidence. I suppose I could wish Mr. Walsh the best of luck. Unfortunately members of this Council have a duty. The law is abundantly clear. Good law or bad law, unfortunately our duty is to ensure that it is carried out.

The Hon. A. W. KNIGHT (Melbourne West Province) .-1 propose t'O examine the situation particularly in the light of the re~arks of the Minister of Public Works who is learned in the law. When the honorable gentleman wished my colleague the best of luck, I doubted his sincerity. I was also interested to hear the remark,s of his legal colleague, the Minister for Local Government. However, they did not read section 301, which states-

When any question is referred to the Court of Disputed Returns under this Division the President or the Speaker (as the case requires) shall transmit to the Court of Disputed Returns a statement of the question upon which the determination of the court is desired, together with any proceedings, papers or reports or documents relating to the question in the possession of the Councilor the Assembly (as the case requires) . Great play has been made by the Government of the case put by Mr. Tripovich. The Hansard report of the debate will be placed before the Supreme Court judge presiding over the Court of Disputed Returns.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT.-No. The Hon. A. W. KNIGHT.-The

Hansard report would be a relevant paper.

The Hon. R. J. HAMER.-That is not so.

The Hon. A. W. KNIGHT.-The Minister for Local Gov,ernment can say that it is not right, but I shall rely on my own judgment. It is only right that members of my party should defend their colleague. Mr. Tripovich has stated that the Children's Court dealt with the case. If the sanctity of the Children's Court can be overridden by other courts, it is about time that the Government took action to amend the Children's Court Act. The Government should call Parliament together immediately to amend that Act, and not wait until after a long recess. I challenge the Government to recall Parliament tomorrow. I hope that, as tim'e goes by, other children will not ultimately, upon attaining adulthood, be placed in a situation similar to that in which Mr. Walsh is placed today.

I have listened with interest to the case put by the Minister for Local Government. I should like to see the contents of the confidential file to which he referred. I agree with Mr. Tripovich that this case should be dealt with by the Government on p'etition.

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE.-The effect would be the same. The matter would be taken to the court on a question of eligibility.

The Hon. A. W. KNIGHT.-If the Government were genuine, it would have resolved the question in that way. Mr. Walsh is a man of high repute and standing. He has been a trustee of his union for many years and, in the trade union movement, a person is not appointed to such a position unless he is trusted. My association with Mr. Walsh in the political party of which I am proud to be a member has led me to believe that his standing is very high. It ill behoves any person to enter by the back door and cast aspersions on a person who has been

Qualification [30 JUNE, 1970.1 of a Member. 85

elected to Parliament. If this person had the moral courage to raise this matter he should have done so before the election. Although the Minister has stated that honorable members may examine the file, he should have informed the House of the identity of this person.

Why did the Under-Secretary act in this matter without making the knowledge public? Why did he not confer with Mr. 'Walsh S'O that Mr. Walsh ·could 'Obtain legal representation? It has been said that the Children's Court at South Melbourne dealt with the matter and I should like to know whether Mr. Walsh was represented at the court hearing. In these circumstances legal aid should be made available.

It would have been interesting to hear the comments of my former colleague, Mr~ Todd, in regard to this matter, bearing in mind his many years' experience as a justice in the Children's Court.

The Government is acting in this matter with certain motives in mind. Both the Minister of Public Works and the Minister for Local Government have denied that there is anything ulterior behind this motion, but I believe there are certain motives which have prompted the Government to bring the issue to light.

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE.-What are those motives?

The Hon. A. W. KNIGHT.-My colleague, Mr. Walton, will deal with that point. An injustice is being done to Mr. Walsh, and the Government is endeavouring to use its numbers in this House. Not long ago, a member in another place stated that he wanted this House abolished, but now that the Government has the weight of numbers in this Chamber the Government wants to do certain other things. I throw back the challenge to the honorable gentleman to abolish the Council.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-Order! That is not the question now under discussion.

Session 1970.-5

The Hon. A. W. KNIGHT.-It might solve the problem, Sir. If the Government were sincere in this matter it would have dealt with 'it by petition.

The Hon. D. G. ELLIOT (Melbourne Province).-This is a sad and sorry day in the history of the Legislative Council of the State of Victoria. I have considered it to be a great privilege to be a member of this House, where I have felt there have been strong elements of good democracy. Today, I can see it disintegrating and it fills me with sorrow.

The motion seeks to refer the case of Ron Walsh to the Court of Disputed Returns on the suggestion of a solicitor named Mr. Downey. In the matter of legal phraseology I am aware that I can be led up the garden pa th by both the Minister for Local Government and the Minister of Public Works and no doubt other legally qualified members who wish to speak on this subject. I am not well versed in legal terms and I am not being humorous when I say that, on numerous occasions, I have been led up the garden path by legal men and accountants. Basically, I am at tim'es 'suspicious of their motives. I am n'Ot making such a suggestion in the case of the Ministers to whom I have referred, but I have a nagging suspicion that there is more in this matter than meets the eye. I sincerely hope that honorable members will have the opportunity to find out who tendered the information which eventually reached the Attorney-General and upon which the motion is based, because if that person is now easy in his mind and conscience it would appear that he has no conscience.

I know Mr. Walsh who, for a number of years, was one of my constituents. I have seen the work done by this young man for charity and good causes in his electorate, and for his party. His dedication is unequalled in the annals of the history of the Labor movement. This is how he is to be rewarded. The legalities of the position may be discussed from

86 Qualification lCOUNt."lL.J of a Member.

'now until Kingdom come, but I point out that in other situations the Government has seen fit to introduce legislation to rectify such matters. The law under which the Government proposes to act is ignominious.. I venture to say that there is not an honorable member present who is not saying, "I wish this matter had not been brought up." Here is a man who was allegedly convicted of a felony at the age of sixteen years. In recent years, it has been customary to regard such a person as one who needs care and attention, but on this occasion the person in question is being called an ex-felon. I invite honorable members to consider the precedent of English law and the fact that this House has power to itself by the decision of the House.

In the name of common humanity and decency, this matter should be adjourned so that the requisite legislation to cover the position may be introduced. If this is not done this House may be labelled as unjust, as I feel it might have been on another occasion when a civil right was at stake and a man was brought to the Bar of this House. At that. time, I openly made an apology because I was ignorant of the forms of the House. These are the things by which we live-that we should represent the people, and that a fair go should 'be inherent in the whole of our society and way of life. 1 do not intend to go into the legalities of the situation, but 1 want to hammer home the fact that the motion before the House is the ·result of an opinion given by Mr. Downey, a solicitor. Sure1y, when such a basic right is at stake, the matter should have been referred to the Solicitor-General, or an eminent Queen's Counsel. On the other hand, do honorable members feel that the evidence is sufficient to justify the embarrassment that will be caused to this man and his family within the precincts of this Chamber?

I could say that cc Bunna" Walsh waS a knock-about boy. I know the

. wharfies and 1 know the code by The Hon. D. G. Elliot.

which they live. In their own way, they are fine citizens. If Mr. Walsh has committed a misdemeanour, I can assure honorable members that he has more than expiated his sins by the nature of his life, and by his loyalty, not only to the party that he represents, but, just as importantly or perhaps even more so, to the people who surround him in this community~ From the bottom of my heart, I urge honorable members either to reject this motion or, at least, at the suggestion of the Government, to agree that its further consideration be adjourned, so that legislation may be introduced to wipe from our statutes for all time the provision to which the Labor Party objects.

The Hon. G. J. O'CONNELL (Melbourne Province) .-1 support my colleagues in urging rejection of the motion because the evidence submitted by the Minister for Local Government and the Minister of Public Works is not sufficient. The motion is based on a Children's Court case of twenty years ago. I have always believed that Children's Court proceedings were held behind closed doors and that the future of any person who appeared before it was never to be impeded. The House is now being asked to take into consideration a Children's Court conviction.

1 have known Mr. Walsh for five or six years and I know the repute in which he is held, especially in the areas of South Melbourne and Port Melbourne, which 1 have the privilege to represent as portion of the Melbourne Province. He is a good family man. I think the cards have been stacked against him because he won the election too easily and the Government wants to get rid of him. I say that in all .sincerity to Government members.

I hope th.e motion will be rejected because, after all is said and done, Mr. Walsh has come a long way since those days. He has paid for any misdemeanours when he was ·a youth. I doubt whether any member of this Chamber can cast a stone. 1 do not want to become emotional on this

Qualification [30 JUNE, 1970,] of a Member. 81'

subject because I know the work of this man and the esteem in which he is held, not only by the Australian Labor Party but by the constituents whom he will represent in this illustrious Chamber. I wish him the best for the future. It looks as though numbers will count, but I hope Mr. Walsh will come from the Court of Disputed Returns with flying colours and that he will with dignity represent his constituents in this Chamber for many years.

The Hon. D. E. KENT (Gippsland Province) .-It is with great regret that I rise so early in my Parliamentary career to speak in this Chamber to which I have had the honour of being elected, and which I understand is a House of review. It is regrettable that, in my first hours in this House, it seems as though it is becoming a House to review the records of members who have been elected by legally qualified electors of Victoria. I hold the view that it is the electors who have the right to determine who should represent them in Parliament.

As I am not qualified to do so, I am not disputing the legal aspects of the matter, but 1 feel that members have no right to seek to petition the Court of Disputed Returns because, by so doing, they are sitting in judgment upon those whom they consider to be fit for election to this House.

In my view, the character of Mr. Walsh has nothing to do with the case, nor has the character of other honorable members. If one were to look at the records of members from infancy to maturity, one might go back not to February, 1950, but to April, 1920, to find some legal offence which had been committed by a member. I am also very conscious of the legal offences which have been committed in many forms in our society but in respect of which no charge has been laid or for which no conviction has been recorded. I think it rests upon the conscience of all members to examine the question whether, as members of this House, they should submit a

petition to the Court of Disputed Returns or should leave the matter to those citizens who are responsible for the election of members.

The large number of votes polled at the election by Mr. Walsh indicates the confidence and respect that he has of a large number of people. The number of votes which he polled far exceed the total enrolment in the provinces represented by some members. I believe this House has a fundamental duty to maintain, as strongly as possible, a democratic situation, taking into account the distortion of representation which already exists in certain respects. It would be a great tragedy if we were to go further and distort the rights of the people by denying their elected representative the right to take his plaLce in the House.

I desire to speak briefly concerning the principle of alleged offences. In our society a person under 21 is regarded as being under the age of responsibility. It seems that this House has decided to penalize a person for an offence committed before he reached the age of legal responsibility. The alleged offence is robbery with violence. In Her Majesty's gaol in the Gippsland Province, which I have the honour to represent, a citizen is being detained' under the law of the State because he refuses to indulge in violence and assault against the innocent people of another nation. Honorable members should examine not only the legal aspects of the matter, but also the moral obligations to which we claim allegiance.

I regret greatly that this occasion has been forced upon me. I hope that, in the future, my remarks in in this House will relate to matters of a more constructive nature, and that they will reflect the dignity and sense of justice which members believe that this House should maintain. I appeal to honorable members to think again, and to regard this Chamber as a House of review. As my predecessor claimed, this is not a political House, but a House of review,


and I therefore call upon all honorable members, irrespective of their political colour, to exercise a conscience vote on this motion. If honorable members do that, I have no doubt about the decision that will be reached.

The Hon. J. M. WALTON (Melbourne North Province) .-1 submit that no case has been made out for the reference of this question to the Court of Disputed Returns. No case has been made out that Mr. Walsh at some time during his teens committed an offence, or might have committed an offence, for which he received a suspended sentence from the Children's Court.

. Already to.day, and also on a preVIOUS occaSIon, members on the Government side of the House have had the opportunity of raising this matter. Nothing was said at the declar~tion. of the poll or during the swearmg In ceremony which was conducted in this Chamber this afternoon when Mr. Walsh actually becam~ ~ member of the Legislative CouncIl; Instead, the Government has seen fit to wait until now to raise the question. . I .believe this action is politically InspIred. It means that the second candidate for the Melbourne West Province in the election who has a righ~ under the law to petition, will not Incur any expense in relation to this matter. He does not even have to appear. Mr. Walsh, however, has to appear before the Court of Disputed Returns at great financial cost, and suffer the personal embarrassment of having to reveal the details of his life.

Another course was open to this Government, and an honorable ~overnment would have adopted, it. 1 he Govern~ent. party has the right to speak to ItS dIsgruntled candidate and to a~vise hi~ that ,he has a right to submIt a petItIOn wIthin a certain time, and that is what should have been done. Instead the Government has seen fit 'ro pUfisue its present course and, as a result, has left itself open to a charge of acting in a purely political manner.

The case with which Mr. Walsh is confronted relates to an offence which he might have committed in the distant past and which was dealt with by the Children's Court, and I remind the House that that jurisdiction deals with children between twelve and sixteen years of age. Even if Mr. Walsh had been only twelve years old at the time, the same conviction would have been recorded and the same motion would have been brought before this Chamber. How proud would members of the Government be about taking action against a boy of twelve years, and how proud of themselves are they today in attempting to remove Mr. Walsh from his seat in this House of Parliament. The revelation of what took place in the Children's Court and the result of action taken by the court will come as a shock to the electors of this State when they realize that something which they regarded as a protection for their children no longer exists. They will be shocked to realize that at any time the Government can drag the record of an unfortunate child from its insidious files and say "This fellow is not entitled to sit in Parliament". W~en one considers the poverty that e?Cls.ts, who knows how many SImIlarly unfortunate children there may be.

I sl:1ppose this is the only Parliament 'In .the world "in which Mr. Walsh would not be entitled t:o sit. He would be entitled t'O sit in the Legislative Assembly and if he lived in England he would be eligible to sit in the Parliament of the United Kingdom. I remind the House that at present a girl who is a member of the House of Commons is serving a sentence of six months in gaol.

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE.-Not for a felony.

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-No, for inciting a riot and throwing petrol bombs-and she is not between twelve and sixteen years of age.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-Order! I have allowed latitude to members on the Opposition side of the House during the debate,

Qualification [30 JUNE, 1970.] of a Member. 89

but I cannot see the relevancy of the situation in England. It is a subject which may be touched on in passing, but I do not think that any issues concerning it may be raised.

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-Where the law of this country is not clear, the English situation prevails. After reading the report of the Acting Crown Solicitor, I believe Mr. Walsh has no case to answer; indeed, the Minister for Local Government made the point that Mr. Downey said t!1at the Supreme Court might well take the· opposite view. After reading his report I do not know whether I would accept Mr. Downey's view. I have read the report closely and I believe some of his advice is most doubtful and rests upon very fine points of the law.

The Hon. R. J. HAMER.-Is that not all the more reason for referring the matter to the court?

The Hon. J. M. WALTON.-Perhaps the matter should be referred to the court, but I believe it should not be done in this way. It should not be referred to the court at the taxpayers' expense, but at" the expense of the disputing candidate, the member of the Liberal Party who did not win at the election. Neither the State nor the taxpayers should pay for it. I should imagine that Mr. Walsh will be expected to find up to $5,000 to obtain the representation he would need in dealing with this dispute. I stress that although Mr. Downey is the Acting Crown Solicitor he is not a Queen's Counsel; and yet, on the basis of his report, the Government is taking this despicable action.

It is important that the members of this House should know who is responsible for bringing this action before the Parliament. It did not originate with Mr. Dillon, the UnderSecretary. He did not suddenly wake up and decide that he must make inquiries into the qualifications of Mr. Walsh. The matter must have been referred to him. Perhaps it was referred to him by the Chief Secretary, Sir Arthur Rylah, or by one of the other candidates in Melbourne West Province, but I doubt that we

shall ever find out. How can the Government be sincere in saying that it does not know who raised this matter? It is important that members of this Parliament should know, because the situation could arise where somebody outside Parliament could bring forward a similar frivolous matter. I am sure that if the same situation existed in regard to members on this side of the House it would be impossible to get Mr. Dillon to obtain a report from the Crown Solicitor on a member of the Liberal Party. It is obvious that the report of the Acting Crown Solicitor must have cost the taxpayers of this State quite a lot of money.

It is unfortunate that this matter should be raised in this House. With Mr. Elliot, I believed that we stood for greater things. I have always been proud of the Legislative Council and of the way in which its debates have been conducted, even though, for other reasons, I believe it ought to be abolished. On this occasion, however, I admit that I am neither happy nor proud at the way in which this matter is being discussed and at the manner in which it has been raised.

Almost one month has elapsed since the election of Mr. Walsh, and the second candidate has had opportunities to take action under the law. There are still opportunities for him to do so. If the motion is agreed to, the electors will find that they are denied principles which they believed were in existence for the protection of their children in future years by not divulging what happened to them in their unfortunate youth. They may well wonder what will happen next. The electors of Melbourne West Province might ask whether this is a political manreuvre, and if it is what redress they have to Parliament to convince it that they still want Ronald William Walsh as their representative. The matter goes much deeper than was portrayed by the Minister for Local Government when he moved the motion and it requires a great deal of thought. We should like to obtain the opinion of a

90 . Qualification ICOUNClL.l o/a Member.

person of higher calibre than the Acting Crown Solicitor and we ought to be given the opportunity to do this. We also believe that until the time allowed under the law for a defeated candidate to make a petition has expired, this motion ought not be passed. For those reasons I move-

That the debate be now adjourned.

The House divided on the motion for the adjournment of the debate (the Hon. R. W. Garrett in the chair)-

Ayes 8 Noes 25

Majority against the motion .. 17

Mr. Eddy Mr. Kent

AYES.

Mr. Walton.

Mr. O'Connell Mr. Tripovich Mr. Walsh

TeUers: Mr. Elliot Mr. Knight.

NOES. Mr. Bradbury Mr. Byrne

Mr~ Houghton Mr. Hunt Mr. Jenkins Mr. Clarke

Mr. Dickie Mr. Dunn

, Mr.. McDona[d Mr. Mansell

. Mr. May

. Mr. Mitchell Mr. Nicol

Mr. Gleeson Mr. Granter Mr. Grimwade Mr. Gross Mr. Hamer Mr. Hamilton Mr. Hauser Mr. Hider

Mr. Swinburne Mr. Ward.

Tellers: Mr. Campbell Mr, Fry.

PAIR. Mr. GalbaUy I Mr. Chandler.

The House divided on Mr. Hamer's motion (the Hon. R. W. Garrett in the chair)-

Ayes Noes

Majority for the

25 8

motion 17 AYES.

Mr. Bradbury .Mr. Houghton Mr. Byrne Mr. Hunt Mr. Campbell Mr. Jenkins Mr. Clarke Mr. McDonald Mr. Dickie Mr. Mansell Mr. Dunn Mr. May Mr. Fry Mr. Mitchell Mr. Grimwade ; Mr. Nicol Mr. Gross Mr. Swinburne Mr. Hamer Mr. Ward. Mr. Hamilton Tellers: Mr. Hauser Mr. Gleeson Mr. Hider Mr. Granter.

The Hon. J. M. Walton.

Mr. Eddy Mr_ Elliot Mr. Kent MI'. Knight Mr. Tripoviob

NOES.

Mr. Walsh.

Tellers: Mr. O'Connell Mr. Walton.

PAIR. Mr. Chandler 1 Mr. Galbally.

ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES.

The Hon. A. J. HUNT (SouthEastern Province) .-1 move-

That .the Honor,able Graham John Nicol be Chairman of Committees of the Council. 1 am most happy to move this motion for the reappointment of Mr. Nicol, who has been Chairman of Committees of 'the Council since 20th February, 1968, and was previously for quite a period a Temporary Chairman of Committees. During his earlier period as Temporary Chairman, he had the str.ange experience on one day, because of two unfortunate illnesses, of being elevated to Acting Chairman of Committees and also Acting President. During the whole period in which he has been Chairman of Committees, Mr. Niool has always displayed fairness, impartiality and dignity, yet with it all firmness administered with tact and unfailing ,good humour. We are fortunate to have him as Chairman of Committees, and I ther€fore find it a privilege to move the motion for his reappointment.


TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett) laid on the table his warrant nominating the Honorable K. S. Gross to act as Temporary Chairman of Committees whenever requested to do so by the Chairman of Committees or whenever the Chairman of Committees is absent.

HOUSE COMMITTEE. The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister

flOr Local Government) .-By leave, I move-

That the Honorables H. M. Hamilton and D. E. Kent be members of the House Committee.


Committees. [30 JUNE, 1970.] Committees. 91

LIBRARY COMMITTEE. . The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister

for Local Government) .-By leave, I move-

That the Honorables the President, M. A. Clarke, R. J. Eddy, and J. M. Walton be members of the Joint Committee to manage the Library.


MEAT INDUSTRY COMMITTEE. The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister


That the Honorable D. G. Elliot be discharged from attendance upon the Meat Industry Committee, and that the Honorables R. J. Eddy and F. J. Granter be added to such committee.

The moHon was agreed to.

PRINTING COMMITTEE. The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister

for Local Government) .-By leave, I move--

That the Honorable W. M. Campbell be discharged from attendance upon the Printing Committee, and that the Honorables the President. B. P. Dunn, O. G. Jenkins, I. A. Swinburne, and R. W. Walsh be added to such committee.


ROAD SAFETY COMMITTEE. The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister


That the Honorables B. P. Dunn, H. M. Hamilton. and J. M. Walton be members of the Road Safety Committee.


STANDING ORDERS COMMITTEE. The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister


(a)

Police Station.

That· the Honorables the President, V. T. Hauser, G. J. Nicol, I. A. Swinburne, J. M . Walton, and H. R. Ward be members of the Select Committee on the Standing Orders of the House.



The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister for Local Government) .-By leave, I move-

That the Honorable M. A. Clark,e be a member of the Statute Law Revision Committee.


SUBORDINATE LEGISLATION COMMITTEE.

The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister for Local Government) .-By leave, I move-

That the Honorables K. S. Gross and G. J. O'Connell be members of the Subordinate Legislation Committee.


POLICE DEPARTMENT. AUTHORIZED STRENGTH OF STATIONS

IN MELBOURNE WEST PROVINCE.

The Hon. A. W. KNIGHT (Melbourne West Province) asked the Minister of Public Works-

(a) What is the authorized police strength of the Footscray, Kingsville, Sunshine, Maidstone, Newport, Williamstown, Altona, st. Albans and Niddrie police stations, respectively, and what is the present strength of each?

(b) Has consideration been given tQ having these stations brought up to authorized strength; if so, with what results?

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE (Minister of Public Works) .-The answers are-

Authorized Strensth. Actual Strength.

Uniform. C.I. BrlUlch. UJ1iform. C.I. Branch.

Footscray .. .. · . .. 30 12 28 11 Kingsville . . .. · . .. 11 10 Sunshine .. .. · . .. 26 7 25 6 Maidstone .. .. .. .. 16 . . 15 ., Newport .. .. · . .. 9 9 Williamstown " .. · . .. 19 4 18 4 Altona .. .. . . .. 6 .. 5 . . St. Albans .. 13 . . 13 .. Avondale Heights (formerly known as

Niddrie Police Station) ., .. 6 2 6 2

92 Questions. [COUNCIL.] Questions.

Apart from vacancies at the Kingsville and Maidstone police stations which are as a result of members being absent undergoing national service training, the other differences between the actual and authorized strengths are of a temporary natur:e only whilst vacancies brought about by the transfer of members, at their own request, to other stations or branches are in the course of being fined.

(b) Action is taken to fill vacancies brought about by the transfer of members from one police station to another station or branch,· as soon as possible after they occur.

Where a member of a police station is called up for national service training, the district in which the station is located is required to cover his abs'ence from -its own personnel resources.

EDUCATION DEPARTMENT. TEACHERS' TRAINING COLLEGE FOR

WESTERN SUBURBS.

The Hon. A. W. KNIGHT (Melbourne West Province) asked the Minister of Public W orks-

(01) Has land been resumed in the western suburbs for a teachers' training college; if so, where?

(b) Is there other land held by the Education Department in the western suburbs and suitable for a teachers' training college; if so, where?

(c) When is a teachers' college likely to be established in the western suburbs?


(a) Site being purchased at southwestern comer of Furlong Road and St. Albans railway line.

(b) No. (c) No date has been determined as yet

as to when a. college will be established.

NORTH FOOTSCRAY SPECIAL SCHOOL: WAITING LIST: EXTENSIONS.

The Hon. A. W. KNIGHT (M·elbourne West Province) asked the Minister of Public Works-

(a) How many children are awaiting enrolment at the North Footscray Special School?

(b) When will work commence on the proposed extensions to this school?


(.a) On 25th June, 1970, there were thirteen children on the waiting list for Footscray North Special School.

(b) It is anticipated that tenders for the extensions will be invited eaI'lly in term 2 next year.

ROAD CONSTRUCTION.

WIDENING OF BALLARAT ROAD, FOOTSCRAY. .

The Hon. A. W. KNIGHT (Melbourne West Province) asked the Minister for Local Government-

(a) What sections of Ballarat Road, west of the Geelong Road intersection, are to be acquired for road widening purposes?

(b) Has consideration been given to the proximity of the Footscray Institute of Technology and the effect of the noise level in the classes?

The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister for Local Government) .-The answers are-

(a) At this stage the Country Roads Board's proposals for widening the section of Ballarat Road (Western Highway) between Fern Terrace and Nicholson Street involve the acquisition of a strip of land varying from zero at Fern Terrace to 20 feet at the eastern boundary of the Footscray Institute of Technology. The property on the comer of Nicholson Street and Ballarat Road has already been acquired.

(b) Yes. The Education Department and the Footscray City Council agreed with the above proposals but as the Council of the Footscray Institute of Technology is now the responsible body the board is in communication with the institute council on the proposals.

TRAFFIC COMMISSION.

PEDESTRIAN OVER-PASS NEAR RICHMOND HIGH SCHOOL.

The Hon. G. J. O'CONNELL (Melbourne Province) asked the Minister for Local Government-

Is it intended to provide this financial year an over-head crossing at The Boulevard, Burnley, for the safety of children attending the Richmond High School?

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE (Minister of Public Works) .-The answer is-

This over-pass is not on the list of priorities for the forthcoming financial year.

Leadership of [15 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Labor Party. 93

ADJOURNMENT. SERVICE STATIONS.

The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister for Local Government) .-1 move-

That the Council, at its rising, adjourn until a day and hour to be fixed by the President or, if the President is unable to act on account of illness or other cause, by the Chairman of Committees, which time of meeting shall be notified to each honorable member by telegram or letter.

The motion was agreed to. The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister

for Local Government) .-1 move-That the House do now adjourn. The Hon. D. G. ELLIOT (Mel

bourne Province) .-1 shall be brief, but the matter 1 raise is urgent. During the past week, 1 have had many letters from service station proprietors throughout the Melbourne area and in country areas intimating that, if the present situation in their industry is allowed to continue, there will be wholesale bankruptcies. 1 request that, as a matter of extreme urgency, the Government should effect some liaison with the Victorian Automobile Chamber of Commerce, and, if necessary, call for facts and figures. It should take some action to dispel the existing sorry mess and bring a large number of service station operators back to the realm of solvency.

The motion was agreed to. The House adjourned at 6.6 p.m.

fJj~gi!i!tttiu~ <!tunnei!. Tuesday, September 15, 1970.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett) took the chair at 4.51 p.m., and read the prayer.

LEADERSHIP OF LABOR PARTY.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY (Melbourne North Province) (By leave). -I have the honour to inform the House that Mr. Tripovich is the

Session 1970.-6

Deputy Leader of the Labor Party in this House, Mr. Walton is the party Whip and 1 am the Leader.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) (By leave).-1 congratulate the Leader and the Deputy Leader of the Labor Party on the positions which they hold. Again 1 look forward to the co-operation of their party in carrying out our responsibilities in dealing with the business of the House.

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE (North-Eastern Province) (By leave) . -I support the Leader of the House in congratulating Mr. Galbally on his election as Leader of the Labor Party in this House, Mr. Tripovich as Deputy Leader, and Mr. Walton as Whip. 1 assure them that relations between our parties similar to those which have existed in the past will continue in the future. Since 1 have been Leader 'Of the Country Party in this House, 1 have had a close association with Mr .. Galbally, and 1 assure him that the confidences which take place as between Leaders will continue.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-I endorse the remarks of the two previous speakers in congratulating Mr. Galbally, Mr. Tripovich, and Mr. Walton on their election to their present positions. 1 have always received their utmost co-opera tion and 1 am sure this will continue.

CLERK-ASSISTANT.

RETIREMENT OF MR. J. J. P. TIERNEY: ApPOINTMENT OF MR. G. N. H. GROSE.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-I wish to announce to the Council that, by virtue of the powers conferred upon me by The Constitution Act Amendment Act 1958, 1 nominated Mr. Graham Norman Hallett Grose for the office of Clerk-Assistant and Clerk of Committees of the LegislatJive Council in the place of Mr. James Joseph Paul

94 Clerk- [COUNCIL.) Assistant.

Tierney, retired on account of illhealth; and His Excellency the Governor in Council has been pleased to make the appointment in accordance with that nomination.

1 know that all honorable members will be pleased that Mr. Grose has lost his acting rank and that his appointment has now been confirmed. We wish him well in his office.

The Hon. G. L. CHANDLER (Minister of Agriculture) (By leave).-1 am sure that honorable members would not wish me to let this occassion pass without referring to the fine work performed by Mr. Tierney as Clerk-Assistant of this House over many years. Honorable members regret that Mr. Tierney's health made it impossible for him to carryon his duties. We all hope that, now that he has been relieved of the pressures of the responsibilities of an officer of this Parliament, Mr. Tierney's health will improve.

1 take this opportunity to congratulate Mr. Grose, whose work has been performed with great efficiency over the years, on being appointed to the position of assistant to our Clerk.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY (Melbourne North Province) (By leave).On behalf of my colleagues, 1 desire to say a word or two about our much-beloved Mr. Jim Tierney, who has been ill for so long. We shall all miss him in the House because he was always up to date with the local political gossip and indeed the gossip on the racecourse too. We trust that his health is somewhat better than when he left us.

Mr. Grose's elevation comes as no surprise to me. He was of enormous assistance to me and the other members of that well-known Royal Botanic Gardens Committee. 1 am not certain that our efforts pleased the Government, but it is a tribute to the integrity of the Leader of the House that he did not hold that

against Mr. Grose. My concern was that, shortly after the completion of the inquiry, it looked as though Mr. Grose was finished, because his health broke down completely. However, with the announcement that the Little Desert Settlement Committee had been set up, his health recovered miraculously, 1 wish him well in his elevation.

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE (North-Eastern Province) (By leave). -I congratulate Mr. Graham Grose on his appointment as Clerk-Assistant, a position in which he has been acting for some time. None of us like acting positions, and we regret that it was necessary in this case because of the ill health of Mr. Tierney. Over the years Mr. Tierney was a loyal and a faithful servant of this House and he guided honorable members in various ways. We appreciate his great loyalty, wish him well in his retirement, and trust that he will regain some of the vitality which he previously enjoyed.

It is with great pleasure that 1 welcorne Mr. Grose to his present position because probably 1 have had a closer association with him than any other honorable member. My late colleague, Mr. P. P. Inchbold and 1 were responsible for urging Mr. Grose to join the staff of this House from his former position of Clerk of Courts at Wangaratta. 1 know that Mr. Grose has never regretted the step which he then took. It is pleasing to see one's nominee make such progress, and 1 wish him well in the future.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-As the Minister of Agriculture has stated, honorable members regret that Mr. Tierney's health has prevented him from further progress in this House. It was always Mr. Tierney's desire to a ttain the highest position, but his health prevented him from doing so. It may seem odd that Mr. Grose has held an acting rank for such a long time, but it has always been our desire to keep

Disqualification [15 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] of a Member. 95

Mr. Tierney officially on strength as long as possible. He had accumulated a large amount of sick leave, and it was desired that those credits should be exhausted before his retirement.

Hansard report of honorable members' remarks on this occasion shall be forwarded to him.

DISQUALIFICATION OF A MEMBER.

We wish Mr. Tierney well and hope that he will have a happy retirement. He is now in a reasonable state of health and I am sure that he will have many years ahead of him now that he is relieved of the worries of this establishment. Mr. Tierney will be glad to read the comments passed about him, and I have directed the Clerk to ensure that a copy of the

ORDERS OF COURT OF DISPUTED RETURNS.

The PRESIDENT (the Hon. R. W. Garrett).-I wish to inform the House that the Clerk of the Padiaments has received two orders of the Court of Disputed Returns, and I ask the Clerk to read them.

The Clerk read the following orders:-

IN THE COURT OF DISPUTED RETURNS

M7338 IN THE MA TIER of a resolution by the Legislative Council of the 30th June, 1970 requiring the said Court to hear and determine whether the Honourable RONALD WILLIAM W AL'SH is a person capable of being elected a member of the Legislative Council or of continuing to be a member pursuant to the qualification requirements of section 73 of The Constitution Act Amendment Act 1958.

BEFORE HIS HONOUR MR. JUSTICE LITTLE WEDNESDAY THE 15TH DAY OF JULY, 1970.

THIS MATTER coming on to be heard this day before this Court AND UPON HEARING Mr. Murray of Her Majesty's Counsel, Solicitor-General for the State of Victoria on behalf of Her Majesty's Attorney-General for the State of Victoria and Mr. W. O. Harris of Her Majesty's Counsel on behalf of Ronald William Walsh THIS COURT DOTH ORDER that Her Majesty's Attorney-General for the State of Victoria and Ronald William Walsh be heard on the hearing of this reference and that they be represented by Counsel on such hearing AND THIS COURT DOTH FURTHER ORDER that this matter be referred to the Full Court of the Supreme Court to be included in the List of Business for the month of August 1970 AND THIS COURT DOTH DIRECT that the said matter be placed in the List of Civil Appeals to be heard during August 1970 and subject to any Order of the Full Court be placed first in such List.

IN THE COURT OF DISPUTED RETURNS

By THE COURT

I certify the typewriting on this page to be a true and correct copy of the original order of which it purports to be a copy as filed in this office. Dated 24th July, 1970,

P. S. MALBON,

Prothonotary of the Supreme Court.

M7338 IN THE MA TIER of a resolution by the Legislative Council of the 30th June, 1970 requiring the said Court to hear and determine whether the Honourable RONALD WILLIAM W AL'SH is a person capable of being elected a member of the Legislative Councilor of continuing to be a member pursuant to the qualification requirements of section 73 of The Constitution Act Amendment Act 1958.

96 Disqualification [CQUNcn...] of a Member.

BEFORE THE FULL COURT THEIR HONOURS MR. JUSTICE SMITH, MR. JUSTICE PAPE AND

MR. JUSTICE MENHENNITT FRIDAY THE 4TH DAY OF SEPTEMBER 1970.

THIS MATTER coming on for hearing before this Court on the eighteenth, nineteenth, twentieth, twenty-first, twenty-fourth and twenty-fifth days of August, 1970 UPON READING the documents referred to this Court by the President of the Legislative Council UPON HEARING Mr. P. Brusey of Counsel on behalf of Her Majesty's AttorneyGeneral for the State of Victoria and Mr. W. O. Harris one of Her Majesty's Counsel on behalf of Ronald William Walsh THIS COURT DID ORDER that this matter should stand for judgment and this matter standing for Judgment this day accordingly THIS COURT DOTH DECLARE THAT-

1. Ronald William Walsh was not on the 30th day of May 1970 capable of being elected or of sitting as a member of the Legislative Council.

2. The election on the '30th day of May 1970 of Ronald William Walsh as a member of fhe Legislative Council and the return thereof were and are void.

3. There is a vacancy in membership of the Legislative Council for the Melbourne West Province

AND THIS COURT DOTH DIRECT that the formal order of this Court be drawn up by the Crown Solicitor and passed if necessary and entered forthwith AND THIS COURT DOTH ORDER that the application by Ronald William Walsh for a recommendation that his costs be paid by the Crown be adjourned to a date to be fixed AND THAT the said Ronald William Walsh be at liberty to bring the application on at any time after giving reasonable notice to the Crown.

By THE COURT

I certify the typwriting on these pages to be a true and correct copy of the original order of which it purports to be a copy as filed in this office. Dated the 10th day of September, 1970,

P. S. MALBON, Prothonotary of the Supreme Court.

It was ordered that the orders be laid on the table.

SUMMARY OFFENCES BILL. The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister

for Local Government), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend Part I. of the Summary Offences Act 1966.



ABOLITION OF CAPITAL PUNISHMENT BILL.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY (Melbourne North Province), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to abolish capital punishment.



ARCHITECTS (AMENDMENT) BILL

The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE (Minister of Public Works), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Architects Act 1958.



DOG BILL. The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister

for Local Government), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to consolidate and amend the law relating to dogs.



Summary [15 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Offences Bill. 97

LABOUR AND INDUSTRY (EQUAL PAY) BILL.

The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY (Melbourne North Province), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Labour and Industry Act 1958.

The motion was agreed to. The Bill was brought in and read a

first time.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. DAYS AND HOURS OF MEETING.


That Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday in each week be the days on which the Council shall meet for the despatch of business during the present session, and that the hour of meeting on Tuesdays be half-past Four o'clock, on Wednesdays Four o'clock, and on Thursdays Eleven o'clock; that on Tuesday and Thursday in each week the transaction of Government business shall take precedence of all other business; that on Wednesday in each week private members' business shall take precedence of Government business; and that no new business be taken after half-past Ten o'clock


RIGHT OF PRIVACY BILL. The Hon. J. W. GALBALLY (Mel

bourne North Province) moved for leave to bring in a Bill no establish the right of privacy, to make consequential amendments to the law of evidence, and for other purposes.


first time.

SUMMARY OFFENCES BILL. The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister

for Local Government) .-1 move-That this Bill be now read a second time.

It deals with two unrelated subjects -one could broadly be called billposting and the other juvenile smoking. In more formal terms. the objects of the Bill are, firstly, to simplify proofs in proceedings for offences relating to the posting of any placard, bill, sticker or other document containing an advertisement of a commercial nature; and, secondly,

to increase the existing penalties for selling cigarettes and tobacco to persons under the age of sixteen years.

Since the year 1890 at least, the law relating to good order in towns has made it an offence to post any placard, bill, sticker or other document, writing or painting on or otherwise defacing any house, building, wall, fence, and S'O on, without the consent of the occupier or owner of the premises. In 1963, the Government introduced a Bill to re-enact the Police Offences Act. This Bill sought to modernize and rearrange the Act in a more coherent and effective form, to revise monetary penalties and to extend its provisions in some respects.

Under the Bill of 1963, which was subsequently referred to the Statute Law Revision Committee for examination and report, it was intended to extend the provisions of the Police Offences Act relating to bill posting. Among other things, the legislation sought to make liable to penalties those people whose names were mentioned in such a way as to suggest that they had authorized the posting of the placard, bila, and so on, or that they were in any way concerned with the management or promotion of any business, entertainment, sport, game, exhibition or other event referred to therein. It was open to those persons to satisfy the court that they did not authorize the posting or that they had no knowledge thereof. The Bill also provided that the onus of proving consent of the owner or occupier of the premises on which the poster was placed was upon the defendant.

In its report dated 30th October, 1963, the Statute Law Revision Committee stated at paragraph 12.9-

The 'committee agrees that the indiscriminate posting of bills and the despoiling of property is something to be deplored, and it would be attr.acted to a reasonable provision which sought to combat it. However, the committee did not support the recommendation then before it. Since then, the posting

98 Summary [COUNCIL.] Offences Bill.

of bills and the plastering of placards and notices, and so on, in many places seems to have increased. I think our awareness has also increased, and there is a determination to try to do something about it. There are obvious difficulties in dealing with this particular offence.

This Bill seeks a reasonable way out of the difficulty. It seeks to make it easier to prosecute offenders and to meet the obvious objections that the Statute Law Revision Committee had, one of which I am sure was that with the wide nature of the bills referred to there was some apprehension that over-enthusiastic election assistants might help to penalize members of Parliament.

The Hon. J. M. WALToN.-Or the opponents!

The Hon. R. J. HAMER.-That is so. A reasonable amount of apprehension was felt quite widely at the time. I hasten to add that this Bill does not deal with that sort of placard or poster. It deals wit~ what are described as commerCIal posters which have some obvious commercial interest and some obvious commercial result.

The first change in the Bill~ therefore is that it is only in the case of com~ercial advertisements that the person who appears to have authorized or who is concerned in the promotion or management of the business, entertainment or sport referred to in the advertisement will be deemed to have posted the placard, bill etc., unless he can satisfy the cOllrt to the contrary. I emphasize that this reversal of proof will not apply to any placard, bill, etc., which is not of a commercial nature.

The second change is that it provides a substantial penalty for any person who seeks to implicate another person by posting placards, bills, etc., in the name of that person. That deals with another objection of the Statute Law Revision Committee.

The IHon. A. J. HUNT.-The penalty . is doubled.

The Hon. R. J. HAMER.-That is so. The Bill does not seek to extend the offences of bill posting referred to in sub-section (1) of section 10 of the principal Act but to simp.lify proof of offences under the sectIOn. Clause 2 substitutes five new subsections for sub-section (2) of section 10. The new sub-section (2) pla~es on the defendant the onus of prOVIng to the court that he had the consent of the occupier or owner of the property to post the placard, ~ill, sticker or other document or to wrIte, paint on or otherwise deface the property. In addition, the new subsection provides that any person who appears from any placard, bill, sticker, etc., containing an advertisement of a commercial nature to have authorized the publication thereof or who is in any way concerned in the promotion or management of any business or entertainment or any sport, game or exhibition or other event of a commercial nature referred to therein, shall be d~emed to have posted the placard, bIll, etc., unless he satisfies the court to the contrary.

By the new sub-section (3), the person who actually posts a placard, bill sticker, etc., contrary to the pro~isions of sub-section (1) of section 10 shall still be liable to the penalty under the section notwithstanding that another person ~as been convicted on the presumptIOn that he posted the placard, etc.

The new sub-section (4) makes it an offence with substantial penalties for any person to post a placard, bill, sticker, etc., of a commercial nature, without authority. The purpose of this sub-section is to deter a person mischievously posting a placard, bill, etc., in order to embarrass or implicate another person. This new subsection makes it an offence for any person without the authority of the publisher or of the person concerned with the management or promotion of the business, entertainment, sport, game, exhibition or other event, to post a placard, bill, etc., of a commercial nature .

Summary [15 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Offences Bill. 99

As Mr. Hunt interjected earlier, the penalties are heavy. Any person convicted of such an offence is liable to a fine of not more than $500 or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months. These penalties are double those provided for the basic offence of bill posting under section 10.

The new sub-section (5) places on the defendant the burden of proving that he had the authority of the publisher of the placard, bill, sticker, etc., to post the placard, etc. Subsection (6) empowers the court convicting a person of an offence under the section, in addition to imposing a penalty, to order such person to pay the cost of removing or obliterating anything written, posted, or painted without the necessary consent and to make good any damage done to the property. Any amount so ordered to be paid shall be regarded as a penalty and may be recovered accordingly.

Those are the provisions relating to bill posting, and they are intended to attempt to deter people from posting bills all round, indiscriminately, without any authority and so defacing the urban areas, and even other areas, of this State.

The remaining clauses of the Bill refer to juvenile smoking. Here again, people are much more sensitive than they used to be to the blandishments of smoking, so that it is a more real offence than ever to start young people on this path. The offence of selling or supplying tobacco in any form for the use of any person under sixteen years of age has 'Operated in this State since 1906 when the penalty for a first conviction was $2 and for a sec'Ond or subsequent offence $4. This offence is now contained in section 43 of the principal Act. The penalty for a first offence is still $2, but the penalty for the second or subsequent offence has been increased to $5. These penalties are quite inadequate if they are to act as any kind of deterrent and if this offence is to be prosecuted properly. Accordingly, clause 3 amends section 43 to

increase the penalties for the offence of selling or supplying tobacco, cigarettes, etc., to a person under the age of sixteen years-for a first offence from $2 to $20; and f'Or a second or subsequent offence, from $5 to $50.

Sub-section (1) of section 44 of the principal Act makes it an offence f'Or any person under the age of sixteen years to purchase tobacco, cigars or cigarettes from a vending machine or similar contrivance, the maximum penalty for which is $5. Paragraph (a) of clause 4 increases that penalty from $5 to $50. The section also requires that every such vending machine ~hall have prominently affixed to it a clearly legible notice relating to the prohibition of the purchase by juveniles of tobacco, cigarettes, etc., from the machine. The penalty for not having such a notice attached is $10. Paragraph (b) of clause 4 increases that penalty from $10 to $50. I commend the Bill to the House.

On the motion of the Hon. J. W. GALBALL Y (Melbourne North Province), the debate was adjourned.

It was ordered that the debate be adjourned until the next day of meeting.

ARCHITECTS (AMENDMENT) BILL. The Hon. MURRAY BYRNE

(Minister of Public Works) .-1 move-

That this Bill be now read a second time.

Its purpose is to make several amend~ ments to the Architects Act 1958. The most important of these concerns the use of the term "architect". In more recent years, due mainly to changes which have taken place in the building industry, and in company law, both in Australia and overseas, the practice of the architectural profession, particularly in relation to large developmental building projects, has in many cases passed from individual architects to companies which practise as architects.

100 Architects [COUNCIL.] (Amendment) Bill.

Having in mind that the main purpose of the registration of architects under the Architects Act is the protection of the public by means of statutory provisions that aim to ensure that persons describing themselves as architects are, in fact, qualified so to do, it becomes necessary to make a similar provision in the existing legislation to cover the case of companies, partnerships and firms which use the title of " architect", in order to bring them within the jurisdiction of the Act.

Already, a number of firms and companies have been formed and are operating in Australia under the title of "architects"; hence the need to clarify the s'itua tion. A's the service to the public of the profession of architecture i's based on personal qualifications and standards of profeSls'ional practice, 'it appears de's'irable that the -emphasis 'on the registration of individuals 'should be maintained, and for th'i's rea'Son the amendments to 'section 10 of the Architects Act whkh I am submitting t'O the House provide 'that, in regard to a firm or corporation ,seekting registration under the Act, it wil'l be neceS'sary for not less than two-thirds of the directors, partners or proprietors too be per-sons registered under the Arch'i'tects Act. In other words, a clear majority of the directors of arch'itectural compan'ies seeking registration will need to be registered architects, and shareholders who are not regi'Stered architects will be precluded from controll'ing such a company.

It should be emphas'ized that the intention of section 10 of the Architects Act is to proteot Ithe public by ensuring that no individual pefison may use the title or description of " arch'itect" unless he or Ishe holds the prescribed academic and practical experience qualifioati'Ons and is duly registered 'in term'S of the Act. The exvsting legislation does not provide for companies, firm's or partnerships which may embrace as princ:ipal'S a majority of non-archHects but neverthele'S'S use the <title "architect" . Such organ'izati'ons defeat the inten, 1!ion of the law a's 'it ,stands at uresent.

The Hon. Murray Byrne.

The proposed amendment will not prevent an architect from being a principal of an organization, the majority of the principals of which are non-architects, but it will mean that such an organization, if it describes itself as "architect", will be using the title in contravention of section 10 a's amended by th'i's Bill and wiH leave it'self open to prosecution and liability for penalty.

It lis recognized that numbers of companies, partnerships and firms ex'isit for the purpose of giving profes,sional serv'ices to the building public in a variety of ways, but I submit that, 'if such an organ'ization wishes to hold itself out as being architects, a majority of the principals of the organization should, in fact, be regi,stered arC'hitect's. As the Act is concerned with the registration of qual'ified persons, I consider that the proportion of tw'O 'registered architects out of three principals is a reas'Onable majority and it is on this bas'i's that the proposed amendment is submitted.

I 'should add that this 'Pr-oportion i's str-ongly 'supported by the Viotorian Chapter of the Royal Australian Institute of Architects and the registration boards in all Aus'tral'ian States. I bel'ieve the effect of the proposed amendment will be to provide and mainlain the neceosss'aryc'Ontrol in a simple and fully effective manner.

With the introduction of thi'S amending Bill, the 'ti'me i,s oppor-tune to bring fees and penalt'ie's -set out in the existing Act into conformity with present-day economy. These fees and penalties have not been aUered since the original Architects Act was proclaimed in 1923, and adjustment is overdue. I should pO'int out that the fee's and penalties charged under the Architect's Act are payable to the Architects Registration Board and are applied 'to ,the payment of the general expen'ses of the board. If any Isurplus should accrue, the Act requires that it be appl'ied for the purpose of advancem-ent of architectural education.

Architects [15 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] (Amendment) Bill. 101

These amounts are not a tax on the public at large and do not find their way into the general revenue of the State of Victoria. The proposed variations are considered appropriate in the light of present-day values.

Each member of the Architects Board, including the chairman, is currently entitled to a fee such as the Minister approves, but not exceeding $2.10 for each sitting, with a maximum in one year of $25.20. This envisages a total of twelve meetings a year. The proposed amendment provides for an increase of this fee to a maximum of $5 per sitting and hence not more than $60 in one year. In recognition of changing values I suggest that this is a reasonable fee. I t is also proposed to increase the current penalty of $40 to $100 for disobedience by any architect registered under the Act who fails, neglects, or refuses to comply with lawful directions of the board or who is guilty of any contravention of the regulations under the Act.

Similarly, where registration under the Act has been cancelled and the person fails within fourteen days to surrender any certificates issued by the board, he is currently liable to a maximum penalty of $40. It is proposed to increase this figure to not more than $100.

Where a person knowingly takes or uses the name of "architect" in contravention of the Act, at the present time, he renders himself liable to a penalty of not more than $40. It is proposed to increase this figure to $100. I submit to the honorable members that the proposed increases in fees and penalties are reasonable and appropriate.

The Architects Act of 1958 provides for an Architects Registration Board, consisting of seven members appointed by the Governor in Coun"l cil. One of these may be nominated for appointment on the joint recommendation of the governing bodies of the Victorian Committee of the Institute of Civil Engineers (Lon-

don); the Institution of Engineers Australia, Melbourne Division; the Institution of Surveyors Australia, Melbourne Division; and the Australasian Institute of Mining and Metallurgy.

Because the inevitable trend to greater specialization has made the fractional representation of the Australasian Institute of Mining and Metallurgy on the Architects Registration Board simply a matter of form, the council of that institute has decided to withdraw its representation on the board. I see no reason to disagree with this withdrawal, and it is proposed that the Act shall be amended accordingly.

A further amendment in the Bill concerns the name of the Royal Melbourne Technical College, which has now been changed to Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology. It is appropriate to correct the description of this institution in the principal Act. It should also be noted that for several years the Gordon Institute of Technology has conducted a recognized full-time diploma course in architecture and again it is appropriate to acknowledge this in the wording of the Act.

The wording used in paragraph (1) of sub-section (1) of section 8 of the Architects Act 1958 and the following proviso were transitory provisions included in the original Act of 1923. By the passage of time, these provisions have become redundant and are repealed by the Bill.

Lastly, although the reference in the interpretation section of the principal Act to the "Commissioner of Public Works" is deemed, by virtue of subsequent legislation, to be a reference to the Minister of Public Works, the opportunity has been taken to substitute the correct wording. I commend the Bill to the House.

On the motion of the Han. J. M. TRIPOVICH (Doutta Galla Province), the debate was adjourned.

102 Dog [COUNcn.] Bill.


DOG BILL. The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister

for Local Government) .-1 move-


This is a Bill to re-enact the Dog Act 1958.

The Hon. D. G. ELLIoT.-What about the dog collector?

The Hon. R. J. HAMER.-He comes into it, too. It has been said that there are more dogs and cats in the community than there are children, and that there are more sales of pet food than of baby food. Whether or not that is so, there is no doubt that dogs are well loved members of most families, but they do engage in activities which make them less welcome. The Dog Act deals with this aspect. It assumes the position of dogs in society, but sets out to curb some of their activities which are likely to do damage.

The Han. D. G. ELLIoT.-Does it prevent dogs continually barking at 3 a.m.?

The Hon. R. J. HAMER.-Mr. Elliot may be able to work out some method of preventing dogs from barking. It is not included in this Bill. The form 'Of the legislation has remained unaltered since last century, although the House will remember many amendments that have been made at various times, and a general revision is considered to be desirable. The opportunity has been taken to review fees and penalties and some new provisions have been added. I shall indicate where changes of any substance have been made, and in some cases where penalties have been increased, as I go through the Bill.

Clause 4 increases the penalties for failure to register a dog. Formerly minimum and maximum penalties and different penalties for first and second offences were prescribed, but it is now proposed to prescribe only a maximum penalty. The maximum

of $10 fixed in 1961 is now to be increased to $20. The maximum of $40 in the case of Alsatian dogs remains unaltered.

Clause 6 is a useful administrative change. It fixes 10th April as the day on which registration of a dog shall expire. This is, of course, the last day on which general rates ~ay be. paid without becoming subJect to Interest charges, and it is the day on which a very large number of people do in fact pay their municipal rat~s. l!nder the current legislation, reglstra bon expires on the last day of March, and owners have fifteen days from 1st April in which to register their dogs. Currently there is also a provision for the council to appoint a day other than 1st April for registration, but it is considered highly desirable tha t there should be one day for all municipalities and that this should coincide with the last day for payment of rates.

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE.-How about the dog that is not of age? Dogs are not required to be registered until they are six months old.

The Hon. R. J. HAMER.-That is so. There is provision in the Act for such dogs to be registered when they become registerable.

Clause 7 increases the maximum registration fee from $2 to $5, with an additional fee for Alsatians. Of course, municipalities may fix any fee up to the maximum provided. Formerly such fees were fixed by bylaw, which is a somewhat cumbersome arrangement. In future a resolution of the council will suffice.

Clause 10 increases the fee for a certificate of registration from the amount of 25 cents fixed in 1957 to 50 cents. Clause 15 increases the penalty which may be imposed on the owners of dogs found wandering at large from the maximum of $6 fixed in 1961 to $20. In the case of a dog found wandering at large at night the maximum penalty has been increased from $40 to $50. This is one of the

Dog [15 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Bill. 103

chief areas in which complaints are made to local councils, municipal associations and members of Parliament.

The Hon. I. A. SWINBURNE.-What is the interpretation of " night "-sundown to sunrise?

The Hon. R. J. HAMER.-I should think between sunset and sunrise. Many attacks on livestock seem to be made between sundown and sunrise. It is considered that a substantial penalty is necessary, particularly as the urban areas of the State creep outwards into what was formerly agricultural land. Undoubtedly dogs do considerable damage to stock in those areas.

Clause 16 provides increased penalties for the owners of dogs found on the premises of schools, shops or railway stations, specified shopping areas or beaches. In the case of specified beaches, provision has also been made for councils to fix the periods during which dogs will not be permitted thereon. Such a provision has been constantly sought by councils, particularly bayside councils in whose areas dogs can be a nuisance.

The Hon. 1. A. SWINBURNE.-Such as Elwood and St. Kilda.

The Hon. R. J. HAMER.-They would be good examples. If councils have not previously had power to prohibit dogs from beaches at particular times they will now have this power. The high-water mark is the boundary of each seafront municipality, but for the purposes of this clause the council's authority will extend for 500 yards beyond highwa ter mark provided that this area is not within another municipality. I recall a very brief interview with a dog catcher from a seafront municipality not long ago. He complained bitterly that owners took care -to exercise their dogs between the highwater mark and the low-water mark. They \yaded)nto the tide and ,were in a sort of no-man's land with the dog catcher standing at the high-water mark. I do not know whether the

new Commonwealth legislation will change this. For the purposes of this Bill, the boundary of the municipality will be 500 yards beyond high-wateI\ mark, which should enable the council to cope with that situation. Power to prohibit dogs at particular periods will enable councils to keep dogs away from popular beaches at periods of maximum attendance. There have been n1any complaints about small children being bitten and damage to surf skis and other equipment, not to mention the amount of sand scattered over sun bathers, and so on. Surfing interests have also advanced the theory that the entry of dogs into the water increases the possibility of shark attacks. I leave that to the House.

The current maximum penalties of $8 for a first offence and $20 for a second or subsequent offence were fixed in 1961. It is proposed that the maximum penalty for a first offence shall be $20 and for a second or subsequent offence $50. In the case of dogs found on specified beaches, one penalty only-a maximum of $50-has been prescribed.

Clause 17 increases the maximum fee for the release of a dog seized under the provisions of the legislation from $6 to $10. The current fee was fixed in 1961. Clause 18 increases the penalties which may be imposed on the owner of an unmuzzled dog found in a railway trucking yard while sheep are present. The current maximums of $2 for a first offence and $10 for a second offence, which were fixed in 1957, are to be increased to $20 and $50 respectively.

Clause 19 increases the penalty which may be imposed on the owner of a greyhound which is not both muzzled and under control while off the premises of the owner. The current maximum penalty of $40 was fixed in 1941. It is now proposed that there !shaH be a maximum penalty of $50 for a first offence and a maximum of $100 for a second or subsequent offence.- Clause 20 makes a similar provision with resp~c~ to Alsatian

104 Dog [COUNCIL.] Bill.

dogs. These dogs are required to be muzzled or fitted with a choker chain and under control by means of a leash when they are off the premises of the owner. I do not know whether these requirements are widely observed. As in the case of the preceding clause,maxrmum penalties of $50 for a first off'ence and of $100 for a second or subsequent offence are proposed.

Clause 21 deals with the offence of urging a dog to attack any person or any horse, cattle, sheep or poultry. The current penalty is a fine not exceeding $100 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months. It is proposed that the provision for a term of imprisonment shaH be 'Omitted. Clause 22 increases the penalty which may be imposed on the owner of a dog which attacks any person or any horse, cattle, sheep or poultry. The current penalty of $20 is to be increased to $100.

Clause 25 increases from $40 to $50 the maximum penalty which may be imposed on any person who, without proper authority, sells, injures or destroys any dog. Clause 26 requires any person who destroys a dog pursuant to the provisions of the legislation to do so speedily and without causing it unnecessary suffering. No penalty is currently prescribed for an offence against the provision, but it is proposed that there shall be a maximum penalty of $50.

Clause 33 is a new provision which has been added at the request of the Municipal Association tlo make it an offence to interfere with or remove dogs from the custody of the proper officer or to interfere with any enclosure in which dogs are kept. The clause has been adopted from similar provisions in the Pounds Act, and a maximum penalty of $100 has been provided for any offence.

The proposed changes to which I have referred and the consolidation of the legislation will enable more sati'sfactory control to be exerted over dogs without there being any


necessity :lior an unreasonable attitude towards these animals because of their position in the community.

On the motion of the Hon. J. M. WALTON (Melbourne North Province), the debate was adjourned.


ADJOURNMENT. COMMONWEALTH PARLIAMENTARY

ASSOCIATION--"PRINCES GATE PLAZA: SAFETY.


That the Council, at its rising, adjourn until Tuesday, September 29.

As honorable members know, next week some 86 representatives from all over the British Commonwealth of Nations will be visiting Melbourne to attend meetings of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association. It is the desire of all honorable members that we should co-operate with the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association in 'Suitably looking after the visiting representatives from Monday, 21st, to Wednesday, 23rd September, inclusive. I believe it is our obligation to act in this manner. I have discussed with the Leader of the Labor Party and the Leader of the Country Party the question of the passage of Supply through this House. The Supply Bill will be received in this Chamber on Tuesday, 29th September, and it is the Government's intention, with the concurrence of the party Leaders, to proceed immediately with the debate and pass Supply on that day. Consequently, I am sure that all honorable members will support my motion.




The Hon. J. M. WALTON (Melbourne North Province) .-1 direct the attention of the Minister for Local

· :" Questions [15 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] on Notice. 105

Government to a statement in this "morning's newspapers to the effect

L'" that the Princes Gate Plaza might -;.) .' collapse if a crowd of people ~:1J ~ assembled on it. 1 should have t '.~ ~ ";' thought that such a structure would ~1 ;}, .'~ be able of carrying a rea,sonable numr)i H

'; ber of people. Honorable members can ~if'~':"imagine the situation that would f·~J·/g:develop if the plaza collapsed under ~.1'~~ crowd. It should be recognized l>i~;:pthat frequently crowds of people J't',' congregate at this location at

lunch time or on special occasions and parties of school children may assemble at the plaza without the knowledge of the Melbourne City Council. 1 should like the Minister for Local Government to inquire whether the statement of the town clerk, Mr. Rogan, to the effect that the plaza might collapse is true and, if so, what the honorable gentleman or the Melbourne City Council intends to do about it.

The Hon. R. J. HAMER (Minister for Local Government) .-1 have taken a note of Mr. Walton's question and 1 shall certainly look into the matter. 1 assure the House that it is most unlikely that the Princes Gate Plaza would collapse under the weight of a normal crowd. Obviously, it is intended that people should congregate at ,this location. I think the town clerk had in mind the possibility of a large crowd, closely packed, assembling under the leadership or at the instigation of the organizers of the moratorium, and he 5,Qunded a proper note of warning conc~ng the situation that could develop. ' 1 am sure that the warning is not intended to indicate that the plaza will not support a reasonable

;:;:"; . number of people who are likely to it· visit it and use it for normal purj)A, poses. 1 shall make inquiries into ;r.~~·t1.~the matter and convey the result of .. ;:~ ~\".lthem to Mr. Walton land any other rt,-'~':<~' honorable m'ember who would like an · . a:s1suf,aneeconcerning the safety of

the Princes Gate Plaza.


The House adjourned at 5.52 p.m., until Tuesday, September 29.

Iltgislntiut All!1tmbly. Tuesday, September 15, 1970.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie) took the chair at 4.6 p.m., and read the prayer.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE.

The following answers: to. questions on notice were circulated:-

POLICE FORCE. ORGANIZATION: EXAMINATION

BY COLONEL SIR ERIC ST. JOHNSTON.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds) asked the Chief Secretary.-

Whether it is intended to appoint an expert to examine the whole structure of the Victoria Police Force; if so, when?

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-The answer is-

As announced recently, the British Home Secretary has agreed to make available the services of Colonel Sir Eric St. Johnston to examine the organization of the Victoria Police Force.

Sir Eric, who is Chief Inspector of Her Majesty's Constabulary for England and Wales, wiH examine the administ,ration and organization of the Victoria Police Force and report and make recommendations to the Chief Secretary as to the means by which 'the efficiency of the Police Force could be improved.

Sir Eric will be accompanied by Chief Superintendent G. Floy of Birmingham City Police Force and will commence his study on 1st October next.

EDUCATION DEPARTMENT. MOONEE PONDS CENTRAL SCHOOL:

PORTABLE CLASS-ROOMS.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds) asked the Minister of Education-

When is it expected that the Moonee Ponds Central School will be provided with three portable class-rooms to enable the daily transportation of pupils to other schools to be discontinued?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answer is-

Three portable class-rooms have already been provided at Moonee Ponds Central School.

".: "

~ . 106 .' Questions (ASSEMBLY.] on Notice.

NIDDRIE TECHNICAL SCHOOL: CONSOLIDATION OF TITLE.

Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park) asked the Minister of Education-

1. What progress has been made in consolidating the title of the Niddrie Technical School?

2. When is it expected that the title of this school will be consolidated?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answers are-

1. The Crown Solicitor's Office has been requested to arrange for consolidation of the title.

2. In view of the complicated nature of this dealing, no accurate estimate can be given on when a cDnsolidated title will be issued.

SUNSHINE HEIGHTS PRIMARY SCHOOL: NEW CLASS-ROOMS: SITE WORKS.


When the recently-cDnstructed additiDnal class-rDDms fDr the Sunshine Heights Primary School will be available fDr occupatiDn and when the site works associated with these class-rooms will be cDmpleted?


The recently-cDnstructed additional classrODms at Sunshine Heights Primary SChODI are already 'Occupied and temporary site wDrks have been carried 'Out.

The Public Works Department is currently preparing a 'scheme fOor permanent site wor~s and it is expeoted that the works will be cDmpleted fDr the new SChODI year.

MILLEARA PRIMARY SCHOOL: PERMANENT CLASS-ROOMS.


What measures 'are proposed to provide adequate permanent dass-rODmaccommodation at the MiUeara Primary School for the 1971 SChDDI year?

Mr. TIlOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answer is-- ,

It is expect,ed that the cDnstruction of permanent dass-fiDoms will begin in a few weeks' time and that Ithe a'ccommDdation will be ready fDr the 1971 SChDOI year.

STATE ELECTRICITY COMMISSION.

POWER GENERATION: STATEMENT BY OFFICER.

Mr. AMOS (Morwell) asked the Minister for Fuel and Power-

Whether he is 'aware ofa 'statement maldetil~ by Mr. J. J. RDbevtJson, StJate Electricity CDmmilssiDn power engineer for the Latrol Valley region, at a meeting with severa .. Latrobe Valley muni'Cipal CDU. neils, that th cDmmission has ,to. provide the cheape pDssible power, therefore, the next co .. missiDn power station wiH be oil fired and" . wHI be situated near Melbourne; if so-(a) whether tw:s means the abandDnment by the cDmmi'ss[on of :the use of brown coal as a means 'Of prDducing additional power in the State; and (b) whether this 'is 'a change of pdlicy by ,the commission?

Mr. BALFOUR (Minister for Fuel and Power).-The answer is-

I undersitand 'that Mr. RDbertson explained tha't over-'all eCDnDmics would play an impDrtant pa'l"t in deciding the IDcation of the next major power station in the cDmmission's system but he did not mak>e a definite statement 'as to the 10ca'Non 'Of that station.

The general 'cDnsideratiDns affecting the selection of the next generating project, which wi'll be needed primarily to meet peak loads and prDvide energy reserve capacity, are set 'Out 'On pages 15 and 16 of the commissiDn's 50th 'annua'l repDrt, a CDPY of which I fDrwarded ItO. the hDnorable member under cover 'Of a letter dated 12th June, 1970. TheoDmmissi'On has not yeti: made a decis~iDn as to this nert generating project nor has it submitted a recommendation to fue GDvernmenlt.

In thi's ma'tter iti:s important to' distinguish between base load generating pl'ant, which to' date has been mDslt economically IDcated at -the coal fields in the Latrobe V'alley, and peak load pliant which, generally speak-ing, is mDre econDmicaHy locat~eIle r the load centr:es. HydrD-electri'c p'la ' 'which alslD is an effeotive means of m ng peak load requirements, must, of CDurse, be located where hydro. pDwer ils available.

During the pa'st 25 years while major base load generating statiDns have been built in the L'atrobe Valley, substantia'l additions have been made to. peak load capa

. in t!he metropDllitan 'are'a and at the time hydro-electri'C proJects at Kiewa, and the SnDWY have been constructed.

Therefore, there 'has been no. change in thecommrss1ion's pDl1icy nor is there any suggestiDn of abandDnment 'Of the use of brDwn coa'l as 'a means of power generation. HDwever, as mentJiDned in the commi'ssiDn's annual . repOl;t,' when ·the time' CDmes to select the next' base load generating plant,

Questions [15 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] on notice. 107

, bH~ty of other indigenous fuels, and natural gas, will have to

IIsi4:iered. as well ·as nuclear power, , rnatives to br'Own c'Oal. The

idec:isicm will to install plant which the greatest over-aU econ'Omy

operation 'Of 'the whole system.

VALLEY REGIONAL MANAGER.

AMOS (Morwell) asked the for Fuel and 'Power-

Mr. Schulz, the Latrobe Valley I of the Stalte Electricity

mI1n1S":sio:n, is 'On long service leave; if so, ether he is being paid a remuneration in

addition to hi'S salary during the leave period, and, in that event---(a) what additional 'amount is being paid and for what purpose; and (b) what is the authority f'Or such payment?

Mr. BALFOUR (Minister for Fuel and Power) .-The answer is-

Mr. Schulz at present is overseas on recreati'on and l'Ong service leave and while he is abro'ad wiH spend three weeks on offici'a'l investigati'Ons fur th'e State Electricity Commission. During this peri'Od of three weeks, he wiH be paid any out-of-pocket expenses up to a l:imit of $30 a day.

The payment was authorized by the commission's management pursuant to the State Eleotricity Commiss,ion Act.

HEATING OF BUILDINGS IN LATROBE VALLEY.


Whether any buildings under the c'Ontrol of the State Electridity Commissi'On in the Latrobe Vralley are using dil as a heating fuel; if so-(a) at what 'locations; and (b) why oil fuel 'is 'being used instead of brown

! , coal 'Or el,ectricilty?

,.... BALFOUR (Minister for Fuel .-The answer 'is-

no commission buildings in the ey using oi'l as heating fuel.

." •. ''''' , ... ~ INSTITUTE OF ANCED EDUCATION.

BUILDINGS FOR CHURCHILL: HEATING.

AMOS (Morwell) asked the ri";~t.::~,.. for Fuel and Power-Whether he is aware of a statement made

by Mr. F. Goddard, acting principal of the Gippsland Institute of Advanced Education, that the new buildings to be established at Churchill will have water heating supplied by oil-fired boilers?


I understand that Mr. Goddard did not make the statement as alleged but that the suggestion 'that oil fuel be used for heating the buildings of the new Gippsland Institute of Advanced Education emanated from the engineering consultants engaged in the design of the buildings.

It is my understanding that the council of the institute has not yet made a decision in this matter and the State Electricity Commission is having further discussions with the consultants as to the possibility of using briquettes for the heating of the buildings.

The Gas and Fuel Corporation is also discussing with the consultants the advisability of using liquefied petroleum gas for this particular application.

COUNTRY ROADS BOARD. OVER-PASS IN NORTH GEELONG.

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North) asked the Minister for Fuel and Power, for the Miinister for Local Government-

1. When the proposed road over-pass at the intersection of Keera Street and Church Street, North Geelong, will be completed?

2. What are the proposed plans and completion dates for each stage of this project?

Mr. BALFOUR (Minister for Fuel and Power) .-The Minister for Local Government has supplied the following answers:-

1 and 2. As part of the Country Roads Board's proposal to provide divided carriageways on the Princes Highway between Separation Street and Latrobe Terrace, an over-pass will be constructed to carry traffic over the railway line and the Princes Highway at the Church Street-Glenleith Avenue -Keera Street intersection. This combined rail and road over-pass will replace the existing old rail bridge (Telegraph Bridge) and will provide safer conditions for traffic entering and leaving the highway.

It will be necessary to close the Telegraph Bridge for approximately nine months but disruption of traffic will be kept to a minimum. The whole project is expected to be completed by July, 1971.

THALIDOMIDE. COMPENSATION FOR CHILDREN

AFFECTED.

Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park) asked the Minister of Health-

1. Whether he is aware of a judgment given recently in Germany against the manufacturers of the drug thalidomide?

108 Questions [ASSEMBL Y.] on Notice.

2. Whether p'arents of thalidomide-affected children in Victoria will receive compensation; if so, what are the estimated amounts and what procedure they will have to adopt to obtain their share of the compensation?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister Health) .-The answers are-

of

A statement, which appeared in the newspapers some months ago, concerning the drug thalidomide, has been examined. Information received from a reliable source is that no judgment has been given in Germany against the manufacturers of the drug thalidomide.

However, the manufacturers of this drug in Germany have agreed to make an offer of a large sum of money to an organization set up by the affected parties. No children affected in Australia are involved in any negotiations since the drug distributed in this country was manufactured by another drug company under licence and not by the German manufacturer.

DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH. PRE-SCHOOL CENTRES AND

KINDERGARTENS: SUPERVISORS.

Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park) asked the Minister of Health-

1. How many pre-school centres and kindergartens have been operating in Victoda in ,each of the past ten finrancia.J years?

2. How many supervisors to pre-school centres and kindergartens have been employed by the Department of Health in each of those years?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-The answers are-

1 and 2.

Year Ending.

31st Dec., 1960 31st Dec., 1961 31st Dec., 1962 31st Dec., 1963 31st Dec., 1964 31st Dec., 1965 31st Dec., 1966 31st Dec., 1967 31st Dec., 1968 31st Dec., 1969

Number of Subsidized

Pre-school Play Centres and

Kindergartens.

458 485 520 556 592 632 680 717 751 779

Number of Supervisors

Employed in Department of

Health.

10 11 11 12 12 12 12 12 12 12

ROAD TRAFFIC.

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) the Minister of Transport-

1. Whether he is aware of the difficulty experienced by workers Reservoir and Lalor in travelling to from work at Broadmeadows due to congestion?

2. What steps are being taken to traffic entering and leaving Mahoney at High Street, Keon Park, 'and SvcirillllLi.:. Road, Broadmeadows?

3. Whether any alternate road links are planned?

4. When it is likely that improved traffic facilities will be 'available?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport).-The answers are-

1. I understand that certain works have been undertaken and others are proposed to improve the flow of road traffic between the 'areas mentioned.

2. (a) The Country Roads Board has provided funds ,this financial year for the acquisition of land and the provision of traffic islands for the improvement of the intersection of Mahoney'S Road 'and High Street, Keon Park. I understand that the work will be carried out by the Preston City Council ,and it is expected that it will be completed by the middle of next year. The council has, I believe, applied to the Traffic Commission for funds for the installation of traffic control signals at this intersection.

(b) The construction of traffic islands and right and left tum lanes ,at the intersection of the Hume Highway (Sydney Road) and Mahoney's Road was completed by the Country Roads Bo'ard on 31st August last. Provision has 'also been made for installation of traffic control signals by Broadmeadows City Council in the rutlllilfi~~

3. Not 'so frar as I am aware. 4. I refe'r ,1'0 the above ·",rn"UT"'''''

Mr. SIMMONDS (Res the Minister of Transport-

What steps are being taken to the traffic bott:le-neck alt the of High Street-Broadway-Cheddar and the railway crossing 'at Reservoir?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of port).-The answer is-

I understand that the Preston Council is responsible for the care and management of the three roads referred to. Epping Road (High Street) is a dedared main road and Cheddar Road and Broadway are both unclassified roads.

.. ~ . ~

Questions [15 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] on Notice. 109

I have been ,advised that the Traffic Commission has approved of the installation of traffic signals to control the movement of pedestrians crossing High Street at .the existing pedestrian crossing near Broadway. An application by the Preston ,council for funds for this work has been forwarded to the Traffic Commission for consideration.

SYNTHETIC MEAT. MANUFACTURE FROM SOYBEANS AND

PETROLEUM DERIVATIVES.

Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park) asked the Minister of Lands, for the Minister of Agriculture-

Whe.ther the Minister has seen reports relating :tothe manufacture of synthetic meat from soybeans and petroleum derivatives; if so, what steps have been taken to ban .the production in Victoria of synthetic meat?

Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of Lands).-The answer supplied by the Minister of Agriculture is-

The possibility that protein preparations, derived from soybeans and yeast produced from petroleum derivatives, may constitute a :threat to meat production has been considered by the Australian Agricultural Council and has been referred to the Animal Production Committee.

There are two major aspects under consideration-

(a) the 'threat from imitation meat to Australia's meat markets; and

(b) the regulations already available or required in Australia to safeguard the consumer from untruthful or misleading labelling and/or description.

In connection with (a), the Commonwealth Departments of Primary Industry and Industry are watching

and overseas partimay 'affect Australia's

The Au~tralian Meat investigating the situation.

with (b), the matter has :the attention of .the Food

of the National Health Council and will be

, meeting this year.

Victoria no consideration Oa.rmU:lg of production

Food t

SWEARING IN OF MEMBER. Mr. J. F. Rossiter was sworn in as

member for the electoral district of Brighton and took and subscribed the oath required by law.


AUSTRALIAN EDUCATION COUNCIL.

Mr. DOUBE (Albert Park).-Will the Minister of Education inform me whether he is prepared to make available to honorable members the report of the Australian Education Council, a body comprised of the Ministers of Education of the various States? If he does not intend to do so, will he give reasons?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education).--Copies of this report are available. If additional copies are required, I shall see that they are provided.

ABORTION INQUIRY. Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the

Opposition).-Is the Chief Secretary aware of the statement made by a member of the Police Force indicating that he has received notice of charges arising out of the Kaye abortion inquiry report, and if so, is it the intention of the Chief Secretary to table the report? If not, will he make

,a full statement to Parliament giving the reasons of the Government for this attitude?

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary).-I propose to make a Ministerial statement on this matter when questions without notice are completed.

UNIVERSITY HIGH SCHOOL SITE.

Mr. CLAREY {Melbourne).--Can the Minister of Education inform me what progress has been made by the sub-committee established to look into the question of the removal of the University High School and the establishment in another place of the Royal Melbourne Hospital; and whether any decision has been made?'

110 Questions without [ASSEMBLY.] Notice.

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-A Cab'inet sub-committee, consirsting of the Minister of HeaUh, the Mini'ster for Local Government and myself, wa's Iset up to consider this manter, but its deliberations have not been completed and no report hars been made to Cabinet.

INQUIRY INTO TRANSPORT. Mr. ROSS-EDWARDS (Leader of

the Country Party) .-1 ask the Premlier whether any date has been fixed for the commencement of the inquiry into transport and, if so, who will be the person appointed to conduct the inquiry.

, Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) . ......;No date ha1s been fixed. The delay has been caused by the time taken to obtain a suitable person.

POLICE AT MELBOURNE CRICKET GROUND.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-I ask the Chief Secretary: Why were so many plain-clothes police and detectives on duty last Saturday outside the M'elbourne Cricket Ground for the purpose of apprehending ticket " scalpers", which iseem's to be a far leslser 'crime than 'some of the more heinous crimes which are being 'committed lin the State? 1 understand that last Saturday the number of police there ex'ceeded 50.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-If the honorable member's report of the number of police employed is correct, I also would be interested. A couple of hours ago I inquired whether thds information was true, a's I want to know, too.

MORATORIUM MARCH. Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds).

I ask the Chief Secretary: Does the Government intend to issue 'instructions to the Police Force to co-operate with people and crowds in regard to the moratorium march to be held in Melbourne neXlt Friday?

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-At this stage, the Government has no intention of saying anything in regard to the moratorium march.

SCAFFOLDING REGULATIONS. Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).

Does the Minister of Labour and Industry propose to have his Department take over the administration and policing of the scaffolding regulations in Victoria; if so, when is it proposed that this changeover should take place?

Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of Labour and Industry) .-This matter is currently under consideration between my Department and the Local Government Department. When a final decision is made the honorable member, in common with other honorable members, will be informed.

TEACHER TRAINING AT PROPOSED UNIVERSITY.

Mrs. GOBLE (Mitcham).-I ask the Minister of Education: Is it expected that the committee which has been set up to investigate the establishment of a fourth university will take into consideration the possibility of including a college of teacher training in that university?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-A specific term of reference ask>s the committee to inve'stigate the possibility of incorporating the exrsting teac~R11c::ge structure within the ne""~i~~t.¥.

,1:,"'11(.': ~ .. ··h.;c.

SALE OF NATURAL ··~~';.~G:~t: ~. '. ' ". • i- ~ ',"

NEW SOUTH W:·,'·S;.<t.<·,;,~ ... : .

. ~r. HOLD~NG (Lea~,:,,~~~l .. ,·.i sitIon).-I WIsh to dIr.~~q~~s~tl· to either the Premier , ..... ~ .. for Fuel and Power.

The

Questions without [15 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Notice. 111

Mr. BALFOUR (Minister for Fuel and Power) .-This matter is one between the producers-Esso-B.H.P. -on the one hand, and the distributors-the gas companies in Sydney -on the other hand. I understand that a number of discussions have taken place and possibly some progress has been made. Honorable members will be aware that another gas field has been found in South Australia. The New South Wales Government has shown some interest in that field and I understand that it has had some discussions with the producers there.

The Victorian Government is not a pa'rty to those di'Scussions, and therefore any knowledge is relayed to it by the Minister for Mines in New South Wales.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-1 direct a question to the Premier. If the State of Victoria is not a party to these negotiations, can the Premier explain the purpose of his visit to New South Wales some months ago, when it was freely reported in the New South Wales press that the honorable gentleman was there participating in discussions concerning the purchase of Victorian natural gas?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-Of course I was in New South Wales, discussing the pipelining of natural gas from Sale to the border. The honorable member may recall that, at the time the agreements were reached between the producers, the Victorian Government and the Commonwealth Government, one of the conditions laid down by the Commonwealth Government was that gas should not or would not be denied to a sister State. If New South Wales desires to purchase Victorian gas, it is up to Victoria, in line with the conditions laid down, to ensure that New South Wales does not buy the gas any cheaper at Sale than Victoria buys it. Victoria cannot deny New South Wales the right to a pipeline to the nearest point which would be the cheapest possible route. The purpose of my visit to New South

Wales was to give that assurance to the Premier of New South Wales, the Minister concerned, the producers and the purchasers if they enter into an agreement.

INSURANCE COMPANIES. Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North).

I direct a question to the AttorneyGeneral. Following recent investigations under the Companies Act of the East Australian Insurance Company Ltd. and NBA Credits Pty. Ltd.-companies operating in the motor car. insurance field-have complaints been received in regard to other insurance companies? If so, in the interests of the public, what are the names of these companies, and what stage has been reached in any subsequent investigations?

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).I ask the honorable member to place his question on the Notice Paper. I shall endeavour to furnish the particulars required to the best of my ability.

HOUSING COMMISSION. Mr. WHITING (Mildura).-I direct

a question to the Minister of Housing. Has the increased bond rate of interest had an adverse effect on the Housing Complission's lending to approved purchasers? If so, will this have the effect of preventing a large percentage of potential purchasers from owning their own homes?

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Housing) .-The bond rate has increased from 4! per cent to 6 per cent in twelve months. This will mean that the actual price paid by house purchasers will be greater. It will not affect the number of houses built except in so far as increased costs might tend to lower the total number of houses which can be obtained for $1 million.

SCHOOL CLASS SIZES. Mr. SCANLAN (Oakleigh).-I direct

a question to the Minister of Education. In view of the research findings in' Britain of Mr. Ronald

112 Questions without [ASSEMBLY.] Notice.

Davie, who is co-director of the national child development study, that children in larger classes have higher educational attainment levels, will the Minister of Education institute research and inquiry in Victoria to corroborate these findings?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answer is "Yes". The Curriculum and Research Branch of the Department will undertake this research.

MOORABBIN AIRPORT. Mr. DOUB'E (Albert Park).-Has

the Premier or any other Minister had discussions with the Commonwealth Government about the extension of the runway at Moorabbin Airport for the purpose of taking jet aircraft? If the honorable gentleman has not done so, in view of the residential nature of this area and of the importance of the subject to people living in the southern part of Melbourne will he make a report to the House on the situation that exists at the moment with regard to this extension?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-1 suggest that the question should be directed to the Minister of Transport.

Mr. WILCOX {Minister of Transport) .-Although the question was not directed to me, 1 did hear it. 1 do not have any knowledge of what has been suggested by the honorable member for Albert Park, but 1 shall make inquiries and inform him of the result.

COMMONWEALTH FUNDS FOR GERIATRIC UNITS.

Mr. B. J. EVANS (Gippsland East). -Will the Premier inform me whether the Government intends to take up the money made available by the Commonwealth Government towards the capital costs of geriatric units, and if not, why not?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (premier and Treasurer) .-The honorable member for Gippsland East has over-simplified the position by asking whether

the Government intends to take up money offered for geriatric treatment by the Commonwealth Government. If it was as simple as that the answer would be "Yes", but it is not as simple as that, because scores of conditions are attached to this offer and at the moment the Government is not in a position to accept the offer because of the conditions that are laid down.

Mr. B. J. EVANs.-What is the major objection?

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-The major difficulty is to find the money to match the Commonwealth grant.

SICK BAYS AND REST ROOMS AT PRIMARY SCHOOLS.

Mr. JONA (Hawthorn).-In view of the fact that sick bays and rest rooms are incorporated in all new primary school buildings, will the Minister of Education consider arranging for the Education Department to cover the direct cost of constructing sick bays and rest rooms in existing primary schools on a priority basis, where such construction is considered desirable?

Mr. THOMPSON :(Minister of Education) .-1 would be prepared to carry out such an investigation. At present this type of project is carried out under subsidy, but the cost of carrying out such a project by direct Government expenditure as distinct from subsidy will be investigated.

"PORlNOY'S COMPLAINT". Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the

Opposi'vion) .~Can the Chlef Secretary inform the House whether or not a prosecution a's a test 'ca'se in regard to the book Portnoy's Complaint will be launched, and if so, what is the likely cost to the State of such a test case?

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-1 'should have thought the honorable member would have realized that the case wa's on at the Ringwood court last Monday and was adjourned to 19th November. 1 do

Questions without [15 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Notice. 113

not knQw whether this is a test case. At the moment it is a prosecution in the ordinary course of business, and I have no knowledge of the, cost.

PAYMENTS TO WIDOWS AND UNMARRIED MOTHERS.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-It has been 'stated in the press recently that it is the intention of the Government to discontinue payment's to widows and unmarried mothers 'Over and abQve Federal social service benefits. If 'this is so, could the Chief Secretary inform me .of the 'saving to the Victorian Government?

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-1 ask the honorable member to put the question on the Notice Paper. There'i,s nothing new in this because it wa's forecast lin the Budget last year.

SCAFFOLDING REGULATIONS. Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).

In the light of the answer the Minister of Labour and Industry gave to me earlier, concerning the transfer of the policing and control of the >scaffolding regulations to the Department of Labour and Industry from the Local Government Department, will the honorable gentleman give the Municipal Association of Victoria an opportuni'ty 'to pres'ent iit's view's to the Govern'ment on th'i1s matter 'On behalf of mun'icipal councils which are at the moment controlling this legislation?

Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of Labour and Industry).-The Municipal Association of Victoria will be given ample opportunity to do that at the appropriate time.

FIRE ESCAPES AT STATE SCHOOLS.

Mr. TURNBULL (Brunswick West). -I a'sk the Mlinister of Education: What is the present policy of the Education Department in regard tQ external fire escapes?

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon . Christie).-The honorable member may not ask a question of policy.

Mr. TURNBULL (Brunswick West). -IWhat are the facts regarding the provision of exterior fire escapes at double-storied State schools?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-Three or four months ago 1 asked the Assistant DirectorGeneral in charge of buildings, M'r. Morton, to conduct a survey of all schools, particularly the older schools in the inner suburban area, with the view of ascertaining whether they were well protected from fire. As yet 1 have not seen the result of that survey, but in arriving at a conclusion undoubtedly Mr. Morton will take into account the matter referred to by the honorable member and will consult the Metropolitan Fire Brigades Board.

INTERSTATE RAIL CONCESSIONS FOR PENSIONERS.

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North).I ask the Minister of Transport to state the present position concerning the request by Victorian pensioners for rail fare concessions for those travelling interstate.

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport) .-This matter was adverted to in the policy speech of the Premier last May, and it is being followed up. The current position is that the Victorian Railways Commissioners and the New South Wales Railways Commissioner are discussing the mechanics of the matter with a view to 'instituting some pensi'Oner concessions on interstate fares between Victoria and New South Wales.

RECEIPT DUTY. Mr. EDMUNDS l(Moonee Ponds).

I ask the Premier: Has the Commonwealth Government given the State Government any firm undertaking, apart from its supposed moral obligation, that it will make good to the State any loss of revenue resulting from the abolition of the receipt duty?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (premier and Treasurer) .-The answer is "Yes," but I think that is too brief-too

114 Questions without [ASSEMBLY. ] Notice.

obscure-an answer. I must explain that this matter was discussed at the Premiers Conference, and the Prime Minister then agreed that if appropriate legislation were not enacted by the Federal Parliament the Commonwealth Government would pay to the State an amount equivalent to that which would have been collected. However, it must be remembered that the sum paid would be only the amount collected last financial year and that growth would not be taken in~ account. The Senators representing this State who are going to vote against the relevant Bill will be denying Victoria up to $4 million a year because of the growth factor. 1 want to make that perfectly clear. If the Labor Party and Democratic Labor Party Senators combine to defeat the legislation they will be denying the State a growth in revenue of $4 mill~on a year.

ST. NICHOLAS HOSPITAL. Mr. LIND (Dandenong).-Having

regard to the acute shortage of beds for mentally retarded children can the Minister of Health inform the House whether there is any intention of opening the vacant building at St. Nicholas Hospital in the near future?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-The Government is examining very closely the situation regarding beds under the control of the Mental Health Authority. The empty building at St. Nicholas Hospital is to be redesigned for a research unit in mental health, and all the mental health research facilities in the State will be situated· there. The situation concerning mentally retarded children is being carefully considered by the Government.

UNDERGROUND RAILWAY. Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-I ask

the Premier whether the Government is considering the holding of a lottery to finance the proposed underground ~ailway: for Melbourne.

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treas~rer) .-1 am surprised at the honorable member. He spends a

good deal of time trying to convince us that what we read in the press about y,arious things, including what has happened at the Travelodge Motel, is not always true. I should say that the same thing would apply in thls case.

PREMIERS CONFERENCE. Mr. CLAREY (Melbourne).-Will

the Treasurer do his best to see that a report of the proceedings of the June Premiers Conference will be made available before the Budget is discussed in this House?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-We rely upon the transcripts of the meetings in Canberra, and 1 shall make inquiries about them if they are not already here. I think they should be available by now.

1ST. NICHOLAS HOSPITAL. Mr. DOUBE (Albert Park).

Following upon the question asked by the honorable member for Dandenong, I desire to ask the Minister of Health whether, in view of the fact that the building mentioned by the honorable member is of four stories and is complete with lifts and toilet blocks, the :Minister thinks it is reasonable that it should have been vacant for the past four years, especially having regal~d to the tremendous shortage which exists in respect of children who are seeking accommodation in mental health institutions.

Mlr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-The question whether the building which is now vacant at this site is suitable for this work is one which has been exercising the attention of the Mental Health Authority for some time. The Government is building a 300-bed hospital in C01ac, and is tackling the whole question of mental retardation in a most constructive fashion. As laid down in the priorities, this building is not suitable for work of that kind. The Government· is doing its best in country areas where the need is greatest.

Ministerial [15 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Statement. 115

INQUIRY INTO VICTORIA POLICE FORCE.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds). -I direct a question to the Chief Secretary. The Government has announced that it is to employ the services of Colonel Sir Eric St. Johnston, an Englishman, to examine the Police Force and to report his findings to the Chief Secretary. Will the Chief Secretary make that report available to members of this Parliament?

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-1 see no reason why it should not be made available.

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT. INQUIRY INTO ALLEGATIONS

AGAINST POLICE.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-1 desire to make a Ministerial statement. Honorable members will recall that, in January last, the Executive Council appointed a board of inquiry-to inquire and report as to whether there is credible evidence raising a strong or probable presumption that any and, if so, which members of the Victoria Police Force (either past or present) have been guilty of criminal offences by demanding or accepting sums of money directly or indirectly from persons engaged in or connected with illegal abortion practices in Victoria or by protecting or wilfully failing to prosecute such persons in respect of such practices. The chairman of the board, Mr. William Kaye, Q.C., has completed his inquiry and on 18th August, 1970, furnished his opinion and his report, as directed, to His Excellency the Governor. The report, which contained a finding that there is credible evidence raising a strong or probable presumption that four past or present members of the force are guilty of specified offences, was referred to the Solicitor-General for consideration and advice.

In ordinary circumstances, the report would be presented to both Houses of Parliament and could then be debated under a motion" that the report of the board of inquiry into allegations of corruption in the Police

Force in connection with illegal abortion practices, be printed". The Solicitor-General, however, has advised me that the tabling and the wide publication of the report, which would inevitably follow, would in his opinion gravely prejudice the four persons named in the report and also other persons against whom criminal proceedings are pending in respect of alleged illegal abortion activities, and would almost certainly lead to successful applications being made to secure postponements of their trials until well into next year and perhaps even longer.

The Solicitor-General said that it might be ·argued that the publicity given to committal proceedings and to inquests does not prevent persons being brought to trial, and that the pUblicity given to the inquiry and to Mr. Kaye's report should be regarded in a similar light, but he expressed the opinion that the distinction to be drawn is that Mr. Kaye':s report contains a careful analysi;s of the evidence and actual findings as to which part's of it are in M:r. Kaye's op'inion credible and that to members of the public the report would read in sim.j}ar terms to a judgment of a oourt.

The Solicitor-General also said that it may be 'contended that reports of company linspectors are tabled in ParHam'ent and rece'ive great publicity, notwithstanding that, 'in many ca'ses, it ils obvious that some form of criminal proceedings will follow. He expressed the opinlion that the analogy is not necessarily a true one. Company report's are usually long and complex and only portions of them are published in newspapers. They usua'lly do not make specific findings ofcrim'inal offences, and the criminal proceedings wh'ich foHow by their very complexity usually take place long after the debate in Parliament and the publication of the report. He expressed the view that company report·s stand in a somewhat different light from the report of Mr. Kaye, wh'ich is directed at criminal practices in the narrowest sense of that term and not to events wh'ich mayor may

116 Ministerial [ASSEMBLY. ] Statement.

not turn out to constitute offences under the Companies Act or under sections of the Crimes Act rela ting to company mait'ters.

The Solicitor-General summarizes h'is opinion in the1se words:-

(a) widespread publication of Mr. Kaye's report and of the debate in Parliament wi'll be Hkely gravely to prejudice not only the four persons named by Mr. Kaye but other perS'ons who are currently facing charges in relation to ahomon practices;

(b) it is likely that the prejudice or probabHity of prejudice would be held by the courts to constitute a good ground for adjourning tdals for a subs'tantial period of time.

A preliminary nDNce has been served on the four persons concerned advising them of the 'intention to file a presentment against them in due course. This notice serves as a preliminary notice of trial and, 'in due course, a copy of the pre1sentment and the re'levant portion of the transcript will be served upon them and the trial will ,then be ready to proceed, subject to arrangements being made for l'i'sting it.

The Government proposes to adopt the advice of ,the Solicitor-General and, accordingly, the report will not be tabled. Every effort will be made to bring the trials on as speedily as possible, and I can assure honorable members that the report will be tabled immediately the SolicitorGeneral so adVlises.

The Government feels, however, that, whilst for the reasons given by the Solicitor-Gener-al the report itself should not be 'tabled, the House should be informed of the names of the persons against whom the board has expressed the opin'i'on that there i,s credible evidence raising strong Dr

probable presumption that they are gunty of a criminal offence Dr

offences. They are-

Frederick John Adam, formerly station officer. Retired from the Police Force on 19th December, 1966, at the age of 60 years.

Sir Arthur Rylah.

John Edward Matthews, formerly superintendent. Retired from the PoHce Force on 14th July, 1970, at the age of 60 years.

Jack Ralph Ford, inspector. Officer in charge of the Homicide Squad, aged 53 years.

Martin Robert Jacobson, formerly a detective constable. Resigned from the Police Force on 13th October, 1968.

NO' similar opinion has been expressed against any other past or present member of the Victoria Police Force.

The board has directed attention to the possible breach of certain regulations made under the Police Regulation Act by certa'in members of the force, and this aspect is receiving the consideration of the Chief Commissioner O'f Police.

I feel I should make speCific reference to the finding of the board concern'ing an allegation of corruption on the part of Mr. Charles Herbert Petty, form'er Deputy Commissioner of Police, who retired from the Police Force on 7th June, 1968, at the age of 60 year,s, which was made by Jean Warnock Field in a statement dated 21st January, 1970.

The board reported that-when e~ami'fled on her oa,th, Mrs. Field retracted the allegation and there was no further evidenc'e supporting such conduct on his part. The board, therefore, did not require Mr. Petty to give evidence on oath and reports 'that ,there is no evidence assodating him with the commission of a criminal offence within the terms of its inquiry.

It is a matter for deep regret that Mr. Petty should have been so unjustly subjected to the embarrassment and pain which he 'must have suffered.

1 move, by leave-That this House take note of the Minis

terial statement.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposi'Uion) .-1 rise to protesteffectively, I hope----to the Government at the attitude it ha's adopted,


first of all to the Opposition, in respect of this matter. The report of the board of inquiry is a matter of oonsiderable 'importance, not only to the people of Victoria at large but also to thi'S Parliament. I had occa's'ion to make representations both to the Chief Secretary and, in hi,s absence earlier in the week, tQ some of his permanent heads, po'inting out the view of the OpposH'ion. Upon the return of the Chief Secretary .to M'elbourne I conveyed 'Our point of view to him 'in 'Order that he could take it into account in cons'idering the problem involved.

It appears that the Chief Secretary indicated to the press that the report would be tabled in Parliament as soon as it was available. I realize that when this undertaking was given the honorable gentleman may not have been fully acquainted with the technical difficulties that would be involved. Although the Opposition extended to the Chief Secretary all the available courtesies that could be offered, the honorable gentleman made his Ministerial statement, which was prepared at a moment's notice, at 4.30 p.m. and it must be taken into consideration at 4.45 p.m.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH.-You can seek an adjournment of the debate.

Mr. HOLDING.-Opposition members are fully aware of the practice of the Government of leaving Ministerial statements at the bottom of the Notice Paper so that nothing further is heard of them. As a matter of courtesy to the Opposition and to Parliarnent as a whole, a copy of the Ministerial statement should have been given not only to me but also to the Leader of the Country Party. After all, the rights of the Parliament are involved. The Government is guilty of a fairly sordid attempt to deprive members of Parliament of an opportunity to consider the issues involved in the report of the board of inquiry.

I invite honorable members to examine the way in which the Ministerial statement has been presented.

If ever a Chief Secretary tried to hide behind the skirts of legal opinion, so to speak, the present Chief Secretary has done so in relation to the abortion inquiry. Because I was concerned about this matter, I visited the Solicitor-General to discuss it with him. It is interesting that the Ministerial statement is couched in terms which are almost identical with the replies furnished by the SolicitorGeneral to the points raised by me. It would be improper for me to involve the Solicitor-General, who is a senior and highly-respected public servant, but surely his rights do not supersede the rights of this Parliament and his opinion should never be allowed to override the rights, opinions or prerogatives of Parliament.

Although the Chief Secretary attached heavy reliance on the opinion of the Solicitor-General he furnished to this House only extracts from the Solicitor-General's opinion. Surely it would have been competent for the Chief Secretary to make available to the Leader of the Country Party and to me copies not only of the Ministerial statement, but also of the Solicitor-General's opinion. If Parliament is to be properly apprised of the issues, there is no reason why the Solicitor-General's opinion should not be tabled in this House. However, only extracts from the SolicitorGeneral's opinion are available for consideration by honorable members. Honorable members have been informed that the Government is anxious to protect the rights of accused persons. The Opposition would be the first in this case or any other case to see that the judicial processes of law were not interfered with. Indeed, the procedures and prerogatives of this Parliament, of which you, Mr. Speaker, are the custodian, are clearly defined. By convention and precedent, Parliament must obey certain rules to safeguard the rights of the courts and of the citizens who are dealt with by the courts. Some of your learned predecessors, Mr.

118 Ministerial [ASSEMBL Y.l Statement.

Speaker, have had to rule on the matters that can properly be the subject of debate in this Parliament.

The Chief Secretary gave an undertaking t'O the people of Victoria that the report of the board of inquiry would be tabled in Parliament. However, following a meeting today only a few hours before Parliament assembled, a policeman was given a summons 'Or informed that he would be proceeded against on a certain date, and, when this sitting commenced, the Chief Secretary made a Ministerial statement on the matter. The only proper conclusion that can be drawn from this action is that it was the intention of the Government that the issues raised in the report of the board of inquiry should not be debated in this Parliament.

I invite honorable members to examine the Ministerial statement. It states, inter alia-

The report, which contained a finding that there is credible evidence raising a strong or probable presumption that four past or present members of ,the force are guilty of specified offences, was referred to the Solicitor-General for consideration and advice. The statement proceeds-

In ordinary circumstances, the report would be presented to both Houses of Parliam~n.t and could then be debated .... The SolICItor-General, however has advised that tne tabling and the wide publication of the report, which would inevitably fonow, would in his opinion gravely prejudice the four persons named in the report.

Ce!t~inly, t~at. i.s one lawyer's opInIOn-albeIt It IS a distinguished opinion-but honorable members do not have the full opinion before them and you, Mr. Speaker, do not have it available to you.

It is interesting to note that the Ministerial statement, and presumably the Solicitor-General's opinion also, refers speCifically to the likelihood of the wide publication of the report prejudicing the four persons named in the report and also other persons against whom criminal proceedings are pending. The Ministerial statement contains this pas-sage-

Mr. Holding.

The Solicitor-General said -that it might be argued that the publicity given to committal proceedings and to inquests does not prevent persons being brought .to trial and that the publicity given ito the inquiry and to Mr. Kaye's report should be regarded in a similar light.

I invite honorable members to consider this as a general proposition. In connection with many serious offences, such as felonies, a pre-trial investigation is invariably held and the cases are fully reported in the press. The restrictions on a court in this situation are less stringent than those imposed on members of Parliament by you, Mr. Speaker, in upholding the precedents of this institution. At preliminary inquiries all sorts of issues are canvassed, th~ only restriction being the limitation imposed by the laws of evidence. Cross-examinations often raise wide issues which can be splashed across the front page or page 3 of the newspapers. In this Parliament, however, the precedent'S whtich guide you, Mr. Speaker, impose a marked limitation on the rights and prerogatives of members in the course of debate.

I believe that you, Sir, as the guardian of the procedures of this House, are more than capable of saying that, in any debate, members shall not impinge upon their responsibilities. Presumably, the Chief Secretary does not share this view because, in the final analysis, he does not want to deal with the real issues in this matter, some of which have only been touched on in the Kaye inquiry. The Ministerial statement further states that the SolicitorGeneral expressed the opinion-that the distJinotion t'O be drawn is that Mr. Kaye's report contains a careful analysis of .the evidenc«:: and ~ctual findings 'as to WhICh parts of It are m Mr. Kaye's opinion credible 'and that to members of the public the report would read in similar terms to a judgment of 'a court.

That might be true, but it is equally true on those many occasions when ~he . n.ewspapers report preliminary InqUIrIes. The reason why injustice is not suffered by individuals in that type of case is that the judges see that it does not occur.


I invite honorable members to consider the people who are involved in this case. 'Probably, no inquiry or criminal trial has attracted half as much attention as the Kaye inquiry. Mr. Kaye decided that the matters raised in the inquiry would be heard in the presence of the press-some issues were heard in camera-and I do not dispute his judgment in that regard. This matter was the subject of so much publicity that overnight the names of the police officers concerned, and those of some of the doctors associated with the inquiry, became household names. Is it seriously suggested that when a doctor, in the course of tendering evidence to an inquiry, admits that he has been performing illegal operations for many years, the Crown will not encounter great difficulty in empanelling a jury to judge the issue?

When discussing this matter with the Solicitor-General, I referred to the interesting analogy between it and the rights and prerogatives of members of this Parliament. Because the Deputy Leader of the Opposition will elaborate on this aspect, I shall advert to it only briefly. On many occasions in this Parliament, reports dealing with financial immorality and company tangles have been tabled and fully debated. Some months after the debate, the persons concerned have been dealt with in the courts. Honorable members have been informed that that practice cannot be adopted in relation to the report of this board of inquiry because a certain opinion, which is not available to honorable members, has been expressed by the SolicitorGeneral. If ever there was a $100 opinion with a legal let out 'it i's the statement that that analogy is not necessarily true. It is certa'inly not false.

While the Solicitor-General is entitled to express that opinion-and I fully concede it to him-I do not bel'ieve that that point of view, given the precedent and practice of this Parliament, carries any more weight than your opinion, Sir, or the opinion

of any honorable member. Indeed, with respect, it w·ould carry even less. I do n'Ot know whether, when preparing his opinion, which ha's not been tabled, the Solicitor-General even considered any precedent in this Parliament when the Parliament itself has dealt with the issue'S, but in those cases the Administration did not say, "We are terribly sorry, but we are c'Ontemplating taking legal acti<>n against someone."

An interesting question is whether, the principle having been estabHshed in this Parli'ament and not having been follow'ed by thi's Government, we need substantial argument from the Solicitor-General a's t'O why that precedent is not being foUowed, rather than relying 'On an interpretationand it would seem to be only an interpretation--that the SolicitorGeneral has expressed the opInIon tha t the analogy is not a true one. One often wonders who is running the Chief SecretarY'ls Departmentwhether 'it is Mr. Dillon or the SoHdtor-General. It is time that the Chlief Secretary ran hi,s own Department. If it is the opinion of the Chief Secretary that the precedents of this House should not apply, let him say so and not hide behind the Solicitor-General. In this ca;se the precedents established by th'is House in previous debates ought to be the subJect of much more explanation than has been given 'in thi's Ministerial ,statement. It ean be errone'Ous to take a couple of passages out of the legal op'inion, and I wonder why the Chief Secretary did not append to his statement, "It is the opinion of the Solicitor-General, not mine."

As a result of the tactic now adopted by the Government, what is going to happen to this report? I bel'ieve it 'is the intention of the Government that the report will go in to the limbo of lost files. The SolicitorGeneral would be the fir,st to admit that, even given the desire of the Administrat.ion to expedite these legal proceedings, if the accused decide to use the full legal processes which are their right, this Parliament will

120 Ministerial [ASSEMBLY.] Statement.

not see this report within two years. In that event, the issues involved will be dead. The Government will say, " We have had a big name policeman come out here and we have charged a few policemen. Why do you want to talk about a report that is so old?"

Narrow arguments have been put by the Chief Secretary in his Ministerial statem'ent, and I draw attention to the manner in wh'ich the Government has handled 'the whole issue and to the important underlying issues. I ask you, Sir, to. cast your mind back to the time when the allega ti'ons were fivst made. What was 'the reaction of the Government? When those serious allegations of police 'involvement in an abortion Iscanda'l were first brought to light I invited the Governm'ent ,to h'Old a Royal Commission, with the wide,st possible terms of reference, in order that Parliament and the 'com'munity at large could be informed on the socia'l ilS'sues involved in abortion law reform.

Subsequently I 'invited the Government to appoint a Royal Commi'S'sion to inqu'ire into all aspects of p'Olice administration in this State, but what wa's the reaction 'Of the Chief Secretary, and the Government? Their reacti.an was to 'smoOther up these events. Their first attempt toO kill any suggestion of inquiry was to appoint Mr. Wilby ,to carry out investigations. I have a high regard f'Or Mr. Wilby, but if ever a public servant was placed by the Government in a position which wa's b'Oth unfa'ir and unjust it wals when the Government 'said ,to the Chief Commissioner, " You make an inquiry into serious allegations of corruption." This did not involve policemen on the beat, but senior members of the Police F.arce. Only the Chief Secretary and this Government would have th'Ought of anything like that. What happened? Mr. Wilby endeavoured to conduct an inquiry, but of course it became impossible for him to do so because the people who had sworn affidavits and were proposing to give evidence took the view that it was

Mr. Holding.

not proper to have the Chief Commissioner investigate hi'S own P'Olice Force and colleagues with whom he may have lived and worked over a number of years. The Kaye inquiry was instituted because Mr. Wilby wars unable to produce any conclusive evidence, and the matter was back in the lap of the Government.

When this matter wa,s first raised the Government ran for cover and tried to smother up the real issues. The Government said to the Chief Commissioner, "There are seri'Ous allegations against senior members of your force, but you patch up the matter. Take it away. We d'O not want to know about it". Mr. W'ilby should not have been placed in that po'siti'On. It was a churlish and -irresponsible act 'On the part of the Chief Secretary-harassed, over-worked, and not knowing where to move. When that ploy did not work, the Government appointed the Kaye inquiry. It was a reluctant decision. I do not know who were the Chief Secretary's advisers-the honorable gentleman has not seen fit to name them in the House-but what we got from the Chief Secretary and his nameless advisers was an inquiry which was so limited in its terms that again it evaded the real issue. The issue wa,s the practice of abortion in this State, which had become a public scandal and involved senior members of the Police Force, but the Government decided to hold an inquiry into the possible corruption of three or four policemen.

Again, the political ploy was to avoid the real issues involved, to avoid the political consequences of facing up to those issues, and narrow the terms of the inquiry. On that occasion-and I refer to the public record----the opinion indicated that it regarded the terms of the Kaye inquiry as too narrow. It was told that the report would be brought down as a matter of urgency. Initially, it was told that it would be brought down before the State elections. These elections were held,

· Ministerial [15 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Statement. 121

but the House has not seen the report. The Government has this precious document in its hands, but what does the Chief Secretary do? He suddenly discovers the rights of individuals and is sorry that he does not feel that Parliament can deal with this issue. The members of his own party and the Opposition are not to be trusted.

Mr. SCANLAN.-Is that why the Federal executive of the Labor Party intervened?

Mr. HOLDING.-The members of the Government are not to be trusted. The Chief Secretary does not trust the honorable member for Oakleigh\ who spends his time smiling and fawning on Mlini'sters llike a lap-dog\ and is hurt because no matter how hard he tries, a well-sponsored young gentleman fl~om the Western District is appointed to la position in Cabinet before him. It is tough luck and I feel for him, but perhap's he might make it if he is prepared to protect the rig.hts 'Of this Parliament.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Order! The honorable member should address the Chair.

Mr. HOLDING.-Mr. Speaker, this last attempt by the Government is the final chapter of its endeavour to close the book on a story which goes far beyond the issue of three or four policemen. Th~ Opposition would never be a party to involving Parliament in a debate which in any way infringed the rights or prerogatives of the individual or the legal process, but equally li'us 'members would not be a party to having excuses made about the operations of these processes to deny tbis Parliament its prerogative'S and rights. This matter should have been debated in P'arliament and, assuming that 'it had, what would have been the worst consequence?

Subject to your rulings, Mr. Speaker, under the sub judice rules, what would be the worst possible consequence if th1s Pa'rliament were to 'exerdse its rights and prerogatives to see this document? The worst thing that could happen is that four

policemen, and presumably some other people, could go to the court and ask for a delay in the hearing of their cases. The Solicitor-General, the Chief Secretary and the AttorneyGeneral know that the capacity of people charged with serious offences to delay the hearing of their trials, is substantial.

Mr. JONA.-The Leader of the Opposition has always called upon the Crown to proceed with a trial as quickly as possible after the commission of an offence.

Mr. HOLDING.-As a general principle it is desirable that people charged under the legal process should be dealt with as quickly as possible, but today we are told that the application of that general principle is more important than the rights and prerogatives of this Parliament to have this report tabled and debated. We are told that if this report is tabled and debated in this Parliament the most terrible and dastardly consequences will occur. People who are being charged will be able to go to the court and convince the judge that something was said in the debate or reported in the newspapers which justifies the hearing of the trials being delayed. That does not mean that those people will not be proceeded against or that they will be acquitted.

Does the Government seriously expect this Parliament and the people of Victoria to believe that this report should not be tabled and debated because something might be said or published which would enable a person who is to be charged to have his trial delayed? Weare not being told that if Parliament does debate the report it automatically and logically follows that there will be a delay in the trials; we are told that there will be an application for a delay and that if a judge is convinced he will grant an extension of time. If such an extension of time were granted, would that be disastrous?

Parliament has to decide whether it is more important for this report to be tabled and the prerogatives of this


Parliament and its members asserted, with the possible consequence-not the logical consequence-that people standing trial could apply for and receive a delay in the hearing of their cases. I believe the report is not being tabled not because the Government wants to protect the rights of half a dozen people, but because the Government is not prepared to face up to the political consequences of the events which could flow from the disclosures contained in the report. The report is not being tabled because the Government wants to protect the ailing and failing reputations of the Chief Secretary and other members of the Cabinet. In other words, the Government has been guilty of another attempt to sweep this mess under the carpet. It stands indicted for its failure to treat this Parliament with the respect its members are entitled to claim.

The Government is guilty of political mendacity because the Chief Secretary previously gave a clear undertaking that the report would be tabled, and presumably the issues involved in it would be the subject of instant debate and urgent attention. The Government is now endeavouring to use a Ministerial statement as a ruse to put the real issues to one side so that it can move to a situation not of having an inquiry into police corruption, but of bringing a learned English policeman to Victoria to examine the administration of the Police Force. The record of the Government on this issue has been one of evasion and failure to face up to its responsibilities.

The Opposition rejects the statement made by the Chief Secretary as being an insult to this Parliament and to the intelligence of the people of Victoria.

Mr. ROSS-EDWARDS (Leader of the Country Party) .-It was with great di'saPPointment that I heard the Chief Secretary announce to the House that the report submitted by Mr. Kaye, Q.C., would not be tabled in Parliament. Some months ago an

undertaking was given that the report would be tabled and that this House would have the opportunity of debating it. If the report is not tabled now it will never be effectively tabled in the Victorian Parliament. It will be used throughout the court case which will go on for the rest of this year, if it gets started this year, and throughout part of next year. The contents of the report will be released in bits and pieces, but its full text will not be available to this Parliament for eighteen months to two years.

Perhaps the most serious feature of the Government's failure to table the report is that the report has led to serious misgivings in the minds of the people of Victoria concerning the effectivene's'5 of the Victoria Police Force. It Ii,s fair to say that responsible people in this State have withheld judgment on the Police Force during the hearing of the inquiry in the hope that when the full story was available they could pass a fair judgment on the force. Until the report is made available, the integrity of the Police Force remains behind the curtain and in the shadows, and this is to be regretted.

Some of the evidence given before the inquiry has been reproduced in the press, but other evidence was heard in camera and only members of Cabinet have had the opportunity of reading it. Members of Cabinet have also had the opportunity of reading Mr. Kaye's report and the opinion of the Solicitor-General. Honorable members generally have not had this opportunity and therefore it is difficult for us to form an opinion on whether the report should be tabled. I very much regret that it has not been tabled but I must accept the advice of the SolicitorGeneral, for whom I have the highest respect. As a solicitor, he is naturally a conservative person and must fall over backwards to do justice to those persons who are put on trial. The Solicitor-General said that the widespread publication of Mr. Kaye's report and of the debate in Parliament


would, in his opinion, gravely prejudice the four persons named in the report. We must take cognizance of that.

However, it is to be hoped that the Government is not trying to hide behind the advice given by the Solicitor-General in withholding the tabling of the report. The Chief Secretary and other members of the Cabinet have undertaken a grave responsibility in withholding the report, and I hope their action will be justified by future events.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-It is well known that if the Government wants to stifle a debate on a particular matter it relies on the issuing of a writ. This has happened on many occasions.

Mr. B. J. EVANS.-An example is the Little Desert.

Mr. WILKES.-That is so. Why does the Government continually and persistently want to abrogate the rights and privileges of members of Parliament? I point out that the inquiry was undertaken only after considerable pressure was brought to bear on the Government. Obviously the Government did not want anything said during the-last election campaign about the Police Force and the role of illegal abortionists.

There could be nothing in the report that has not been published in the press already so why should the Solicitor-General, the Attorney-General and the Chief Secretary be concerned about prejudicing the trials of certain people? How could the trial of any person be prejudiced when the proceedings of the inquiry have been reported in the press? I suggest it would be difficult to empanel a jury which has not formed some opinion on this case from the evidence that has appeared in the newspapers. Therefore, how could any further publication of the conclusions arrived at by Mr. Kaye prejudice the trial?

I am not suggesting that the trial should be delayed if the report is tabled in Parliament. I want to

examine the report to determine why the Solicitor-General arrived at his conclusions. It is obvious that Mr. Kaye did an excellent job under difficult conditions and we know the lengths he went to during the inquiry. Therefore, it is outrageous for the Chief Secretary to expect the Parliament to accept his statement that the report should not be made available to Parliament because the SolicitorGeneral thinks it should not be. The Solicitor-General has not always considered that reports should not be tabled in Parliament, and the Government has not always accepted his advice. Having regard to the worst features of allegations which have been made against individual members of the Police Force and in view 'Of the fact that the Government, or the Crown Law Department, has decided to proceed, surely the matter should be debated in this Parliament. According to what the Chief Secretary has said, there is no trial pending. The honorable gentleman said that a notice had been served as a preliminary notice of trial.

The Chief Secretary used an administrative tribunal which has taken the place of the ordinary processes of our courts of law to arrive at conclusions, and has used the very basis of that inquiry to prevent Parliament from discussing it. The Opposition's view is that that, in itself, is damaging to the Parliament and to certain members of the Police Force who might feel aggrieved at what has appeared in the newspapers. It is all very well for the Chief Secretary to say that one man was cited in evidence and that the evidence was withdrawn and refuted. We agree with that, but there may have been others who felt that they had been impugned. The names of several police officers were mentioned and there are senior police officers in this State who were indeed impugned or could be deemed to have been impugned by what was taken from evidence and published by the press during the course of the


inquiry. Are they not entitled to object and to seek the same treatment as has been given to one gentleman by this Government? The only way in which they can receive the same treatment is for the report to be tabled and debated in the Parliament.

In the Ministerial statement the Chief Secretary said that the Solicitor-General had stated that company reports were usually long and complex, that only portions of them were published in newspapers, that they usually did not make specific findings of criminal offences, and that criminal proceedings that followed, by their very complexity, usually took place long after the debate in Parliament and the publication of the report. If in respect of those who have been indicted or convicted or proceeded against for commercial immoralitythat is, for breaches of the Companies Act-it is good enough to have the actions of the Crown or of the Government debated in Parliament, it is equally good enough for that procedure to be adopted by means of the document which has been presented to the House as a Ministerial statement, in respect of those who have been served with a preliminary notice of triall as a result of the inquiry conducted by Mr. Kaye.

I remind the House that two other persons-Stanley Korman and Raymond Borg-were proceeded against by the Crown in this State as a result of an inquiry and a report which was debated in this House. I shall quote from the report of that inquiry by Mr. Murray, who was appointed by the Government to investigate under Division 4 of Part VI. of the Companies Act 1961 the affairs of Reid Murray Holdings Limited and certain other companies. At page 170 of the report, Mr. Murray, who was assisted by Mr. Shaw, said-

As well as entangling his own and his family's interests with the interests of the Group, Mr. Borg engaged. in trans.actions the object of which was, m our VIew, to produce paper profits, 'and also sanctioned sales techniques which, in our view, were improper and misleading. H.e ,alw~ys denied that any of the transactIons whIch we have categorized as designed to inflate

Mr. Wilkes.

profits was so intended by him,. in each case either asser-ting that the prices were not inflated or that it was intended to revalue the land being bought by the Group at its true value. We have not been able to accept what Mr. Borg has told us about these transactions.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie)-I trust that the honorable member will explain the relevancy of this quotation.

Mr. WILKES.-Its relevancy, Sir, is that nothing could be more indictable than what Mr. Murray said about Mr. Borg on one occasion, in the report to which I have adverted, and what Mr. Murphy said about Mr. Korman. In the conclusions which appeared in his report Mr. Murphy used stronger language than that used by Mr. Murray. I also point out that in the conclusions shown in his report of an investigation under Division 4 of Part VI. of the Companies Act 1961 into the affairs of Menzies Estates Pty. Ltd., Savoy Management Pty. Ltd., and Second United Permanent Building Society, and an inquiry under section 89 of the Co-operation Act 1958 into the affairs of Cathedral Valley Softwoods Cooperative Limited, Mr. Dowling went still further than Mr. Murphy or Mr. Murray, when he said at page 59-

It was, in my opinion, a deliberate cho~ce to conduct the Society 'as !l .specula~Ive enterprise and not as 'a bUlldmg SO~I~ty in the traditional sense. Th~ ,adv~rtlsmg for investments in the SOCIety did not indicate the speculative nature of wh~t was intended; on the contrary, wh~t dId appear stressed :the safety of such mvestments and referr-ed toactiviti.es. of a ~ype commonly to be found in a bUlldmg s?clety. Consequently, what was done ~as, m. my view, quite improper. In saymg. thIS I should not be taken as expressmg the judgment that criminal proceedings nece~sarily ought to be instit~ted, nor should }t be assumed that I conSider tha:t there IS sufficient evidence available in a form .that would be admissible in such proceedmgs. These are matters ,to be decided by the appropriate authorities of :the Crown.

Mr. SCANLAN (Oakleigh).-I rise to a point of order, Mr. Speaker. It is my understanding that the pe~~'on named in this r.eport is now awaIting trial in the Supreme Oourt on appeal from a lower court.


The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vemon Christie).-I ask the Attorney .. General whether a wdt has been issued.

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).-I understand from 'an opinion I have received that a person named J. R. Hall is awaiting trial, Mr. Speaker.

The SPEAKER.-I do not uphold the point of order, ·but I trust that if the honorable member for Northcote continues to quote he will do so only for purposes of illustratiton.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-I shall desist; Mr. Speaker. I wish to point out that on that occasion the person appointed by this Governmen.t made no bones a.bout what he thought ought to take place, and the Government, being under pressure because of the commercial immorality which

. was sweeping Victoria, was forced to lay the report on the table of the House and allow it to be debated.

The Opposition's view is that if there 1S anything in Mr. Kaye's report which concerns the adminLc;tr-ation of the ~}ice Force, the report should .be tabled and debated. Because certa!in senior officers have been indicted in the course of the inquiry, some 4,000 members of the Victoria Police Force are left in a vacuum because they do not know what will be the consequences of what Mr. Kaye has had to say concerning the administration of the force. Honest and decent members of the Police Force must be completely diss'atisfied with the actions of. the Government in preventing Parliament from doing something about the matter. As I have already said, . officers other than Mr. Petty were mentioned during the inquiry, and the Oppbsition believes they are entitled to the same treatment as Mr. Petty received fl10m the Chief Secretary. We are concerned about this.

However, our basic concern is that the Government will adopt this practioe as ~ policy an~ prevent reports from beIng debated In this House and that it will adopt this course on the

SesSion 1'970.-7

basis of an opiniJon received from the So~i~.itor-General. His is only one opInion; the Attorney-General might have another; membel'ls of the Cabinet who have had an opportunity to examine the report might have another; and I 'suppose each member will rise to defend the Chief Secretary'.s action. If that privilege has been given to member-s of the Cabinet why should it not be extended to th~ Leader of the Opposition and to the Leader of the Country Par-ty? If those honorable gentlemen wish to express a view IOn the matter, they are compelled to do it through Mr. Dillon or the Chief Secretary. As the Leader of the Opposition has said, he expressed strong views to the SolicitorGeneral, and he has stated .that if the report is swept under the door in this fashio~, and if findings concerning alleg;abons of graft and corruption within the Police Force are not released, many people will be very dissatis'fied.

If reports are not to be laid on the table of the House and debated, the Government will wa'Ste its time ,in appointing administrative tribunal'S and ~e Opposition win think ser:i~usly In the future about recommending any tr:ibunal that the Government intends to establish fur the purpose of conducting investigation. It is also pointed out that those who were prepared to attend the inquiry and give evidence, and thus expose themselves to the thre'at of possible action, ·were unable to obtain an unqualified statement from the Attorney-General or the Chief Secretary that they would not be proceeded against. The Chief Secretary made a point of that in this House. Those who attended are now defenceless as a result of action taken by the Governmen.t for purely political reasons; cer:ta'inly not for legal reason'S.

Perhaps a member of the· Cabinet will tell Us why, apart from what has been said by the Chief Secretary, the Government is so frightened of the report. If the Attorney-General intends to rely on this Ministerial statement, it is a disg'race. Frotn his


examination of the statement, the Leader of the Opposition has expressed doubts whether Mr. Murray's opinion is in fact a correct one. If in future all administrative inquiries into any charges in this State are to be dealt with on the opinion of the Solicitor-General, it will be a sorry day for this Parliament because the rights of the Parliament will be abrogated beyond repair.

However the Attorney-General feels about the four persons on whom his department has served preliminary notice of trial, I suggest that this does not mean that· they will necessarily be proceeded against. For all that Parliament and the Opposition knows, they may never be proceeded against. If this occurs, what will happen to the report and the other allegations that are c.ontained therein? The Opposition views this matter seriously and thinks that the Government is acting politically. Of course, the AttorneyGeneral does not agree with that view. If the Government continues to operate along these lines, future judicial or administrative inquiri~s of any nature will be a farce.

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).I support the Chief Secretary in the argument he has ,·put forward as to why this report should not be published. The honorable' gentleman stated that the Government proposed to adopt the advice of the SolicitorGeneral on the question, which was-

(a) widespread publication of Mr. Kaye's report and of the debate in Parliament will be likely gravely to prejudice not only the four persons named by Mr. Kaye but other persons who are currently facing charges in relation to abortion pra.ctices.

(b) it is likely that the prejudice or probability of prejudice would be held by the courts to constitute a good ground for adjourning trials for a substantial period of time.

I support the view expressed by the Chief Secretary. The Leader of the Opposition worked himself into a state of passion in making his argument and endeavoured to imply that the action of the Chief Secretary was some sort of affront to you, Mr.

Speaker, and to the Parliament in general. If the Leader of the Opposition had acquainted himself with the practice of this Parliament he would know very well that from time to time the ability of Parliament to debate a subject is limited by strict rul~s regarding matters which are sub judice and you, Sir, have repeatedly ruled that matters currently before the courts, particularly cases in which the tribunal consists of a judge and jury, are not proper matters to be debated in the House.

The reasons are clear because these matters would not only be subjects of public debate in this Chamber but would be ventilated in the press, and the reason why the matters dealt with in the Kaye report should not be debated at large in Parliament is that there is a danger that such a debate would gravely prejudice a fair trial in pending criminal proceedings. Publication of the report could also affect criminal proceedings concerning persons who were witnesses in the inquiry, proceedings which had been instituted whilst the inquiry was being 'held, as well as the four persons who within the past two days have been served with notice of trial in the County Court commencing on the 1st November next, and who are likely to stand trial on serious charges of conspiracy.

There are particular reasons why this report stands on a special basis. The arguments submitted by the Leader of the Opposition and the Deputy Leader of the Opposition relating to other types of reports are thoroughly illogical when one considers the terms of reference of this inquiry, which were-

To inquire and report as to whether there is credible evidence raising a strong or probable presumption that any and, if so, which members of the Victoria Police Force (either past or present) have been guilty of criminal offences by demanding or accepting sums of money directly or indirectly from persons engaged in or connected with illegal abortion practiCes in Victoria or by protecting or wilfully failing to prosecute such persons in respect of such practices.


These very· terms of reference imply a strong probability that persons will be presented for trial. Therefore this type of report is very different from other reports that are presented to Parliament from time to time relating to some general matter of administration, such as the weights and measures administration, or some matter of particular inquiry. This is a matter in which the very nature of the report is concerned with the conduct of criminal proceedings. I stress this passage in the Ministerial statement-

Mr. Kaye's report consists of a careful analysis of the evidence and actual findings as to which parts of it are in Mr. Kaye's opinion credible and that to members of the public the report would read in similar terms to a judgment of a court.

Therefore it is a wrong analogy to compare this report with committal proceedings in which evidence is taken but the m'agi'strate makes no analysis or makes no finding as to the probability of guilt of the accused. This is quite different.

It is nonsense for Opposition members to refer to press publicity on matters associated with the inquiry. Mr. Kaye did not make a public finding; his finding is contained ~n the report. The publication of the conclusion was not made in the press and it is that very thing which might be damaging and prejudiCial not only to the people who are now about to stand trial, but also to Mrs. Berman and others who were witnesses in the proceedings and who are likely to stand trial. For these reasons it would not be fair to have press publicity which would prejudice a fair trial of these people, which publicity would occur if the report were tabled.

The Deputy Leader of the Opposition has stressed that some reports by inspectors appointed to inquire into companies, in which there has been a suggestion of criminal complicity, have been published. In none of those reports has there been an analysis of the evidence to the extent that a conclusion has been formed

which might be misunderstood or which might prejudice a jury, although there may have been a statement to the effect that a person probably might be guilty of some crime. The Kaye report is much more affirmative. The practice of incorporating in the conclusions a statement that a person probably might be guilty of some crime has come under fire recently in a report by the Company Law Advisorj Committee to the Standing Committee of Attorneys-General on Special Investigations, which has been tabled in this House. At page 10 of the report, the committee, presided over by Mr. Justice Eggleston, states-We think, too, that there should be excluded from publication any recommendations made by the inspector as to criminal proceedings.

This represents a statement from an impartial authority on the undesirability of making public matters which imply that certain persons have committed crimes and which may therefore prejudice their trial. That report was acted upon in the draft Bill dUfling the last Parliament.

Mr. HOLDING.-What was the date?

Mr. REID.-I believe it was in 1969; it was tabled in the House early this year, but I cannot remember the precise date.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Order! The honorable member should address the Chair.

Mr. REID.-I WaS answering the interjection of the Leader of Opposition.

The SPEAKER.-It should not be answered directly.

Mr. REID.-The Chief Secretary is well justified in making a Ministerial statement and advancing rea'sons why the report should not be published. I believe, as he does-I affirm the advice given by the. SolicitorGeneral-that the nature of the report -in relation to the terms of reference of the inquiry and the manner in which Mr. Kaye made certain analyses of the evidence-is such that its

128 Ministerial [ASSEMBLY.J Statement.

publication would prejudice the trial of the four men who have been named as appropriate subjects for criminal proceedings. Those criminal proceedings have now be'en instituted and have been set down for hearing on 1st November of this year. It would also prejudice the trial of persons against whom proceedings have already been taken. The Chief Secretary is doing no more than adhering to principles long established in th~s Parliament that m'atters which are likely to prejudice the fair trial of persons involved in, proceedings should not be the subject of debate.

~Ir. HOLDING (Leader 'Of the Opposition).-I rise to a point of order. The Attorney-General referred to the opinion of the Solicitor-General. Because he, quoted sections of that opinion, .will the Minister lay it on the table of the House?

The SPEAKER (the Hon Vernon Christie).-Order! I shall nile on the point of order very shortly.

Mr. HOLDING.-If I may assist. you, Sir, it is the practice to table in Parliament documents that are the subject of quotations. A member can ask for a document to be tabled. J make this request to facilitate the debate.

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).On the point of order,.I merely quoted those portions of the Solicitor-General's opinion to which the Chief Secretary referred in his Ministerial statement. That was the limit to which I went.

.The SPEAKER (the HOD. Vernon Christie).-Order! There is a delicate point in .. this because the quotation appears in the Ministerial statement. It is true that tabling can be asked for in certain circumstances. I prefer to be quite correct on the matter and during the course of proceedings I shall give my ruling.

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport) .-On the point of order--

The SPEAKER.-Is it a further point of order?

Mr. WILCOX.-No, Sir. The SPEAKER.-I have given a

ruling, although not my final ruling. I shall give my ruling later, and the honorable gentleman may then comment on it.

Mr. WILCOX.-Just in explanation. Sir--

The SPEAKER.-Order! I call on the honorable member for Brunswick West.

Mr. TURNBULL (Brunswick West). -I desire to support what has been ably said by the Leader of Opposition and the Deputy Leader of Opposition. It is clear beyond reasonable doubt that the Government is not prepared to run the gauntlet of presenting to this House the report of the board of inquiry. The public has been fooled long enough on this matter. The action of the Government is contrary to public interest.

I have been a member of this Chamber for fifteen long years, during which many reports of Royal Commissions and boards of inquiry have been submitted. Immediately the reports have become available, they have been presented to Parliament. It is a convention that such reports should be presented to Parliament as soon as possible. The Government has had a lucky career in relation to crime. Over many years, Victoria seems to have been the habitat of people with criminal intentions. It has experienced a spate of commercial company frauds that have involved losses of millions of dollars. Now allegations have been made of police corruption in VictOIiia. Perhaps one of the greatest shocks to a modem society is to hear accusations of police corruption.

Surely the Attorney-General would not be so foolhardy a'S to say that if the report of the board of inquiry were presented it would in some way prejudice a trial. In effect, what he s·aid was, "I adopt what the Chief Secretary says ", and the Chief Secretary -said that he adopted what the Solicitor-General said. It must be


remembered that the AttorneyGeneral ;is the chief law officer of the State and is capable of producing a very able legal opinion, especially on a matter such as this. However, there is no report by the AttorneyGeneral-just a bare extract of ·sometiling which the Solicitor-General said. Apparently the Chief Secretary relies on that, and the Attorney-General and the Liberal Party rely on what the Chief Secretary hals 'said.

The Chief Secretary has also stated that one of the danger-s in presenting this report to Parliament is infringement of the dear old rule of sub judice. I have heard that term uS'ed in this House with great regularity and more often than any other. Whenever the Opposition ha's desired to dr-aw the attention of this House to some matter, such as a law suit, a representa.tive of the Government has risen and said, " It is sub judice ". The Opposition, as members of the general public and of a responsible political party, the Australian Labor Party, feels that the report should be produced to this House. One of the matters that I am worried about under the heading--

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Order! The honorable member may not discuss the matter of the inquiry, but only the Ministerial statement and allied matters.

Mr. TURNBULL.-Yes, Sir. One allied matter -is the question of what hecam'e of certain tape recordings. Honorable 'members have heard the story of the Arab and his tent disappearing in the night, but what became of the tape recordings?

The SPEAKER.-Order! The honorable member should confine his remarks to the Mini'sterial'statement.

Mr. TURNBULL.-Mr. Speaker, you will recall the haste with which from time to time the Government has presen.ted reports of Royal Commissions. Much ha's been said about the que·stion of sub judice and the business of COUTts, but this Parliament ·is the highest court in the State. It is not

the duty or respons'ibility, of Parliament to try individual constable'S, but if thi's report indicts the administration of this Government it is the duty of Parliament to indict the Chief Secretary for the manner in which he has discharged his Ministerial responsibility. That is ·the matter with which I am most concerned.

Honorable members were told by the Ch'ief Secretary, or the UnderSecretary, that when the doctor concerned made his allegations there was no substance in them. Subsequendy, the Government stated that if would ask the Chief CommiSSioner to make a report. The doctor concerned stated that he would say nothing to anyone except a Royal Commission, and the Government was literally forced to take the steps it took. Early this year the matter was raised from time to time in this House. The Government was asked when the report was to be tabled, and it replied, " You will get it before the elections," but it was not presented before the elections. During the election campaign the Chief Secretary disappeared from the scene. I did not notice that he was billed to speak anywhere.

A matter which I am anxious to have clarified concerns money that was alleged to have changed hands. Was any evidence given at the inquiry in regard to the bank books' of the persons about whom' allegations were made? The words of the. police officers themselves, as published in the newspapers, troubled my mind. When were these officers on duty at various periods of the year? Were they on duty, or were they playing around?

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie). - Order! The honorable member is dealing with detail.

Mr. TURNBULL.-If the report is presented to the House it will disclose strong evidence of inefficiency in the Police Force. There is doubt, and the public is entitled to be satisfied and to know about the criminality of the people concerned; it is entitled to be informed about' the efficiency of the


Police Force, of the Government, and of the Chief Secretary. Were these people walking about with their eyes closed? Were they reading the various newspapers that I had been reading? The Government must have had some knowledge of what was going on in the Police Force.

The SPEAKER.-Order! The honorable member is straying from the question.

Mr. TURNBULL.-In the public interest this report should be presented to this House forthwith. I support the remarks of my colleagues.

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).What concerns me about the Government's decision not to present this report to Parliament is that it has resolved that it will be a Government of the people but not for the people. In adopting this attitude it is coming dangerously close to abrogating the powers of the Chair in this Chamber. In its wisdom the Government has decided that it would be prejudicial to certain people if the report were tabled. I contend that there is a graver reason for the, Government's action. Today, honorable members have witnessed just another chapter in a sordid serial which has continued for months. The activities of the people involved have received the widest possible publication not only in Victoria but throughout Australia. At this late stage, having had the opportunity of reading the report, the Government has decided that no one else will see it but that at some time in the distant future it may be presented to Parliament.

The Leader of the Country Party was fairly close to the mark when he 'Sa'id that the report would never be effectively tabled in ParHament because, by the time the people concerned are charged and dealt with by the court and the report is subsequently presented to Parliament, any debate on, the matter will be futile. The Government and the Chief Secretary, who is one of the most

experienced politicians in the Liberal Party, are aware of this situation. I contend that the honorable gentleman has deliberately influenced his party and the Government to act in this manner for the sale purpose of attempting to extricate the Government from a difficult political situation.

The statement presented by the Chief Secretary today contains this sentence: "The Solicitor-General summarizes his opinion in these words." The honorable gentleman read the Solicitor-General's opinion. As an elected member of this Chamber, I take the strongest objection to the Government's action in instituting an inqui-ry which hatS cost the taxpayers a lot of money and, for reasons best known to itself, deciding to withhold from the Parliament the findings of the inquiry. This action endangers the democratic principles which this Parliament is supposed to uphold.

Other members of the Opposition and I· can truthfully assert that we have been elected by popular choice, which is more than most members of the Government party can claim. On behalf of the people who elected me to represent them, I voice my protest that public funds have been expended and that, because the presentation of the report is politically - not morally - unacceptable to the Government, the Chief Secretary has attempted to get himself out of a difficult situation by presenting a short statement to this House. The Attorney-General gave one of his usual long-winded dissertations on the legal situation in an attempt to put some substance into the document and to bolster up the argument advanced by his colleague.

In some countries a high price has been paid for democracy. This Government, through its actions, is making a farce of the democratic process in this Parliament. It made its decision behind closed doors, privately in the party room, and is using its numbers to deprive the Parliament of the right to discuss


a matter of great importance to the general public. From the beginning, the Government has fought a rearguard action on this issue. The Leader of the Opposition pointed out how' the Chief Secretary attempted to overcome the problem of illegal operations being performed in Victoria and the possibility of certain members of the Police Force being involved by appointing the Chief Commissioner of Police to carry out an investigation. Certain people in the community did not fall for the proposal or accept the situation of Caesar investigating Caesar, and they refused to co-operate with the inquiry. As the Leader of the Opposition mentioned, the conclusions which the Chief Commissioner had to reach were obvious to everyone.

The Government then went through its usual fandango by appointing a prominent member of the legal profession to undertake an inquiry. The Chief Secretary is an old campaigner and is astute at political manipulation. The fact that the honorable gentlemen still represents the Kew electorate supports that contention. Today, the Chief Secretary presented this concoction to the House, having decided that this is the means by which the Government will forestall and deny the rights of members of this Chamber. It has created a situation in which individual members will be unable to discharge their responsibilities to their electors and to the State. Government supporters should bear in mind that they have an obligation in this Parliament not only to their party but also to their electors. If they are to be a party to this infamous act being committed by the Government they must be judged equally as guilty as the Ministers.

I re,iect the question before the Chair that the Ministerial statement be noted. It is a poor substitute for the report to which Parliament is entitled. If any member of this House lends himself to carrying the motion that is before the Chair he is lending himself to an infamous act

which is being committed against the democratic rights of this institution and the people of Victoria. Therefore, I call upon the House to reject the Ministerial statement and I call upon the Chief Secretary, as the responsible member of the Government, to table the report and allow Parliament to debate it, because it is an issue of great public importance.

Other honorable members have referred to the wide public interest that has been shown in this subject. In view, of the fact that reports presented by other boards of inquiry which the Government has been forced to appoint to inquire into the nefarious practices of certain individuals in the community have been tabled in Parliament, I find it extremely difficult to accept the arguments advanced by the Chief Secretary in support of his contention that the report of Mr. Kaye, Q.C., should not be tabled. The honorable member for Brunswick West legitimately made the point that Vic'toria is becoming the habitat of many individuals with criminal records.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Order! The honorable member is getting away from the subject and I shall hear him further after the suspension of the sitting for dinner. However, at this stage I should like to give the ruling that I promised during this debate. The Leader of the Opposition has made a valid point on the tabling of public documents. I wanted to examine some of the nuances of previous rulings before I gave my ruling. At page 458 of the seventeenth edition of May's Parliamentary Practice, it is Istated-

A Minister of the Crown is not at liberty to read or quote from a despatch or other state paper not before the House, unless he be prepared to lay it upon the table. This restraint is similar to the rule of evidence in courts of law, which prevents counsel from citing documents which have not been produced in evidence. The principle is so reasonable that it has not been contested; and when the objection has been. made. in time, it has been generally acquIesced m.

132 Ministerial [ASSEMBLY. ] Statement.

It is' unde.rstandable that there should be a similar ruling in this House and I quote from a ruling of Mr. Speaker Knox., which appears at page 5224 of volume 224 of Hansard of 27th May, 1947. Mr. Speaker Knox said-

It is a' rule that documents from which quotations are made, extensively or otherwisf;l, become the property of the House and are· therefore laid on the table, except where that would not be in the public interest or when the matter is a highly confidential character.

The Chief Secretary should give his opinion whether the document referred to is of such a highly confidential nature that it Should not be laid on the table. I ask the honorable gentleman to reflect on this during' the suspension of the sitting.

'J'he sitting was suspended at 6.31 p.m. until 8.4 p.m.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-1 think it would be appropriate for me at this stage to deal with your comments" Mr. Speaker, conce.ri1ing the point of order raised by the Leader of the OppOSition. Having considered carefully the ruling you gave,. and the ruling of Mr. Speaker Knox in 1947, I have no doubt that I should advise you that it would not be in the public interest for the report of the' Solicitor-General to be disclosed. Tbe report contains certain information of a highly confidential character. At the same time, I point "Out that I am prepared to make available to the Leader of the Opposition and to the Leader of the Country Party a copy of the report in confidence. I feel 'sure that when they have seen' the report, the honorable m'embers will realize the problem which i's f'acing me and the reason why I.am taking this object1ion.

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).Prior to the suspension of the sitting for dinner, the question of the Ministerial statement dealing with' what is currently referred to as the Kaye' report was under consideration. The Government does. not wish to table the report.· I assume that, as the report was made to the Governor, the Government has

advised His Excellency that the report should not be tabled. The Opposition considers that the report should be tabled. In supporting the arguments that h.ave been advanced by the Leader of the Opposition and other speakers, l point out that I consider this is a direct attempt by the Government to deny honorable members their entitlements on behalf of the people they represent. The fact that the Government does not want thi~ matter to be dealt with properly in this Chamber is another example of the Government's· arrogance and its clear intention to be not a Government for the people but a Government of the people. So' long as the Government has a majority in this House, the Premier, supported by the Chief Secretary, is prepared to force the other members of his party to fall into line. The Government does not hesitate to use its numbers in such a way that the minority groups in this Chamber are denied their rights and are unable to discharge their responsibilities to their electors. A large amount of public funds has been spent on this inquiry,. which has received the widest publicity possible, not only in Victoria but throughout the Commonwealth. I reject the arguments of the Chief Secretary and repeat that the House should not take notice of the Ministerial statement.

Mr. B. J. EVANS (Gippsland East). -This dnquiry 'appeaI"S to have been badly handled by the Government. At first the Government was reluctant to hold an, inquiry. Then, it referred the matter to the Chief Commissioner of Police and, finally, after a great deal of pressure, a board of inquiry was appointed to act under specific terms of reference. It wa1s only recently that the "Chief Secretary indi-c·ated that on completion of the report it would be presented to this House.

One of the term's of reference for this inquiry has already b.een quoted by the Attorney-General. As shown in Government Gazette No.2 of 9th January, 1970, Mr. Kaye was appointed to inqui're into whether there was


credible evidence raising a 'strong or probable presumption that any and, ·if so, which mem'bel'S of the Police Force, either past or present, had been guilty of criminal offences. Surely, after all the evidence was presented and the publication ofevidence in the press, the Chief Secretary was not so naive as to believe that there was not likely to be something in thi!s report which would incriminate certain people in the community; after all, that w·as one of the bas-i'c purposes of the inquiry. In spite of that, the Chief Secretary indicated publicly that when Parliament assembled this report would be presented to it.

As my Leader has already said, this appeal's to be anotheT attempt to deny the people of this State, and Parliament in particular, acce'ss to evidence which one can only believe must reflect on the Government's adm'inistration. This is a subject which is of tremendous concern to the commun'ity at large. I believe the people have a right to know what -is contained in the report and that it is in the interests of those involved in the inquiry that this "information should be released, because many who may have been innocently involved in the inquiry will have a ce'rtain ,stigma attaching to them until the situation is clarified by publ'ication of the information contained in' the report.

I do not believe it is the prerogative of .the Chief Secretary or of the Solicitor-General to determine whether thi,s i,s information which should be placed before the Parliament. I submit that if there is information in the report which is sub judice, you, Mr. Speaker, would rule upon it and, upon 'your ruling, it would not be competent fO.r a newspaper to report the information 'any more than it would be competent for this House to debate it. It is entirely wrong for the Government to ins'ist on maintaining the attitude that it has adopted in this regard. I believe this report should be laid on the table of the House.

Mr. DOUBE (Albert Park).-In a debate of such importance as this, Mr. Speaker, I find it rather extraordinary that honorable membeTIS who support the Government are not prepared to make any comment on this question. The House has heard f'rom M'ifi'isters who are probably directly involved in this matter, but the sometimes vocal back bench is now silent. No one can pretend that honorable members are dealing with something which is not important.

Sir ARTHUR RVLAH.-You have not improved at all. I remember this s·ame technique being used fifteen years ago, and it did not do you much good then.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Order !

Mr. DOUBE.-The Chief Se'cretary is entitled to his memories of fifteen years ago, but I prefer not to recall anything about him, because it does not assist me in any way. This exchange of pleasantries does not throw any light on what we 'are di'scussing, namely, the fact that the Government -j,s receiving no voc·al support from its back-bencheros. It appears that no member on the Government ·side of the' House has any opinion concerning whet~r this report should be made available to members or whether the Chief Secretary's precis, which consists of ony three or four pages, should be all that members are to know about the inquiry.

This inqu,iry lasted for 80 days and cost a fantasNc amount. It shocked this community. The very small number of paper cuttings which are in the pos'session of members of the Opposition represent only 'a fraction of what the commun'ity has read about it. The inquiry has affected the general community much more deeply than members on the Government side of the Ho~se pretend. The commun'ity was absolutely rocked by .the evidence produced, but it appears that the me'mbers of thi'S Parliament are only to be told that a couple of people will be prosecuted, and that is the end of the matter.

134 Ministerial [ASSEMBLY.J Statement.

Mr. WILCOX.-That has not been said.

Mr. DOUBE. - It is a clear inference. What other inference could be drawn?

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH.-You attacked the police in 1952 and you are doing it again.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie ).-Order!

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH.-He hates policemen.

The SPEAKER.-The Chief Secretary's statement was heard in silence, and I invite him to extend the same courtesy to members of the Opposition.

Mr. DOUBE.-Mr. Speaker, there is very little that the Chief Secretary can say that would be offensive to me. I have an understanding of his attitude on these occasions, and I believe he is entitled to express his opinion in the odd way that he does. My point is that members of this House are being asked to dismiss a matter which has deeply affected the Victorian community by accepting the threepage precis which has been furnished by the Government. It is obvious tha t in this report there is a wealth of social documentation concerning our society-there must be, because it hits most significant parts of our community activity-yet the Government has supplied a three-page precis which is expected to cover an inquiry which took 80 days to complete.

If members on the Government side of the House prefer to keep quiet, that is their business, but they cannot expect members of the Opposition to do so because, not being satisfied with its usual censorship role of telling the general public what they can read, the Government has now decided to censor the Parliament. The Government has made a decision that members of Parliament should p.ot read the repvrt. It has put (orward all sorts of proposals that, in the interest of justice, members

should not read it because it is likely tha t certain persons will appear before courts and be dealt with.

Opposition members would be the first to agree with that proposition, but it is well known that press reports in relation to the inquiry have been available to people for the past five or six months. The members of this House know how to conduct themselves. This material could have been made available and investigated without involving any individuals and without comments being made with regard to their guilt or otherwise. As has been pointed out by the Leader and the Deputy Leader of the Opposi-' tion, it is significant that on previous occasions, other reports containing information which, it ('ould be said, would affect the trials of people, have been made available to this House.

Mr. SCANLAN.-That was not established.

Mr. DOUBE.-I am not saying that one can establish these things, but the whole of the Government's case is a presumption anyway. It has presumed that if the report is tabled, certain results will flow from it; that the trial of certain persons will be prejudiced. That is where the big presumption lies.

The Government has taken upon itself the role of deciding what Parliament should accept as sub judice. This represents a further intrusion of the Executive into the function of Parliament. The Chief Secretary reads a report by a senior public servant and because he says that the report should not be tabled in this House honorable members are expected to sit mute. On the say-so of one of its own officers the Government has decided that the Executive will continue its inroads into Parliament, that it will decide what Parliament can do, what Parliament shall read and how Parliament shall act.

It is true that certain things should not be discussed in Parliament if a person's legal rights will be invaded,

Ministerial [15 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Statement. 13$

but from my reading of May's Parliamentary Practice, it is a matter for the House, for you, Mr. Speaker, to decide. It is not a matter for someone who is employed by the Government acting in the role of an adviser to the Government.

Mr. SCANLAN.-YOU are referring to the Crown Solicitor.

Mr. DOUBE.-With great insight, the honorable member for Oakleigh has seen the point. The case which the Opposition has submitted on this matter has not been contradicted by the two Ministers who have spoken. The report is more far reaching than the mere conviction of four or five people. It eats into the very fabric of our society, and the Government's proposition is that honorable members should be prepared to accept a Ministerial statement on a report which relates to 80 days of evidence, and forget about it.

The matter has been thoroughly canvassed in the press over the past few months and nothing that could be said in this House would add anything to what has already been said in the press as regards members of a jury making up their minds. Nothing could be more detrimental to those persons who have been mentioned in the report than what has already appeared in the newspapers. It is a subterfuge on the part of the Government to say that it wishes to protect people when it is really attempting to stop honorable members from reading this enormously valuable document.

No honorable member can pretend for one minute that the sorts of things which were put forward in the evidence are not more far-reaching than the mere conviction of some police officers. At the same time, there was something in the evidence which indicated that Parliament should have the opportunity to read it in order to take a line of action, but the Government is prohibiting Parliament from following this course because members

are not allowed to read the report. If honorable members had the opportunity to read the 'report, they might have second thoughts about their attitude towards the handling of this problem. However, no honorable member will be afforded this opportunity.

M'embers are supposed to sit stultified and say that the Government knows what to do, that there is really no problem, that all that needs to be done is to line up some police officers before a court ,and then the argument will be over. All honorable members know in their own hearts, as a matter of conscience, that if they accept this they cannot be satisfied that they have done what the el'ectors would expect them to do.

No honorable member can take up the challenge by saying that he is not prepared to llook at this report. The Government is not sincere because I have a feeling that the report contains material which could well influence every honorable member in his attitude to an alteration in the law.

Members should know exactly what is in the document and be able to examine the far-reaching possibilities entailed and their effect on society. If we do not follow this course, we are not worfuy of having the honour of sitting in this House in the name of the people. I feel most strongly that we should ensure that the report is available to honorable members so that they may examine it and do justice to the tremendous social problem which is -involved.

Mr. LOVEGROVE (Sunshine).Tonight, the Government finds itself in a classic predicam'ent. The problem is how ,to evade its responsibility in submitting itself to the judgment of Padiarnent and place the responsibility on the Police Force and the courts. The Government is responsible for the Police Force, for the administration of law and order in Victoria and basically for the social condition which has been the subject of this inquiry. The tactics of the


Government are to evade its responsibility before Parliament because it has' not the courage to stand up to the report; it wants to throw it into the courts, where the police can be condemned and the force can be maligned, as it has been maligned in the press over the past twelve months. By this means, the Government can escape scot-free and its friends can be giv'en the gratuity of a bucket of whitewash. This is exactly what the Government has sought to do.

In pursuing this oours'e, the Government is 'acting in opposition to three influential influences in the community. First, it is acting in opposition to a most influential sec. tion of medical opinion which holds, and has held for years, that there should· be considerable reform of the laws prohibiting abortion in Victoria.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-I invite the honorable member not to get on to the subject of the report.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-I shall not do so. I simply say that the Government is flying in the face of a unanimous resolution on the 'Subject of abortion reform passed nea'rly two year-s ago by a Commonwealth convention of the Young Liberal Party.

The SPEAKER.-The honorable Jnember is dealing with the subject of the report ·and the subje'ct i-tself.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-The Ministerial statement states that, in ordinary circumstances, the report could be debated under a motion "that the report of the board of inquiTY into allegations of oorruption in the Police .Force in connection with illegal abortion practices, be printed." This subject has been debated for two years. In April of last year, it was estimated by the medical profession that 400 abortions a week were being carried out in Victoria.

The SPEAKER. (the Hon. Vernon Christie). - Order! The honorable member is getting on to the subjectmatter of the report. The question before the Chair is the statement Of the Chief Secretary and its' contents.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-The House is protected, as has already been indicated by the Leader of the Opposition and other speakers, by those provisions of Parliamentary practice for which you, Mr. Speaker, take the responsibility of administration. If this report were tabled in the House, I am sure that members of the Opposition would be most reluctant to traduce any member of the Police Force who is awaiting trial or is presumed to have some evidence of guilt against him. If any honorable member is not prepared to devote his attention to those portions of the report which are unprejudicial to those on trial or awaiting trial, but which are prejudicial to this Government, you, Mr. Speaker, will protect the traditions of the House.

In relation to the practice of regarding as sub judice those cases referred to, you, Mr. Speaker, would protect those who needed protection and would uphold the best traditions of Parliament if it became necessary to do so. In this case the Government is not worried about anyone in Parliament attacking the Police Force; it knows that it faces an attack on itself. In every country of the world, particularly recently in Great Britain, it has been proved that, in the absence of liberal legislation, no Police Force is capable of administering such bad laws as those now current in Victoria. This Government is not worried about attacks on the Police Force, but upon itself; it is responsible not only for starving the Police Force, but for reducing to penury- every section of the Public Service that it can.

The Chief Secretary made the Ministerial statement tonight for survival. As the Minister in charge of the Police Force for the past fifteen years, he stands condemned for inefficiency and incompetence. So far, nb member of the Government has defended him. The Attorney-General did not defend his colleague, because he knows that he has been guilty ·of the grossest incom-


petence. This report will disclose-if it is ever made public-~o the people of Victoria, the culpability, responsibility and complete guilt of the Government for the manner in which this great social problem has been dealt with. The statement of the Chief Secretary is remarkable, not for what it says, but for what it does not say. Other references made in the inquiry have been skated over lightly because other people were concerned. It was alleged by certain witnesses that by collusion between some members of the Police Force and certain other people, it was possible to fix. juries in Victoria.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie). - Order! The honorable member is now speaking of another subject.

Mr. LOVEGROVE.-I raise the matter, Mr. Speaker, because it is understandable why the AttorneyGeneral does not want the report of the inquiry brought. into Parliament. He takes some responsibility for the jury system in Victoria. The Ministerial statement of the Chief Secretary is designed to stifle all discussion on the subject until it can· be killed. It is all part of an evasion of ParIiamentary democracy which should be condemned by every honor~ble mem-:ber.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moo nee Ponds).I condemn the Ministerial statement of the Chief Secretary. An· inquiry into police corruption in Victoria has cost· approximately $50,000, and has resulted in a 400-page document submitted by Mr. Kaye, Q.C., detailing all the evidence in respect of this matter. However, Parliament is now being asked to deal with this subject on the basis of a three and a half-page Ministerial statement which whitewashes all of that 400-page report. Public money has been wasted. The public has cc gone along" with this saga which ran for 80 days. Numerous witnesses were caned and indemnified to give voluminous evidence and to produce a case. Now the Governmen~. is prepared to

produce only this small statement. No canvassing of Parliament's attitude is being permitted. On behalf of the fairly concise section of the community that I represent, I am bound to say that Cabinet's decision -if it was made by Cabinet-is wrong.

. Honorable members have heard two Ministers defend the Government's attitude. It is not in the public interest that a report of 400 pages on such a wide social problem should be dealt with in this way. Corruption in the Police Force has been alleged, but it would seem tha t the report will be buried for evermore. It is not· in the best interests of ~arl~.amentary democracy and publIc decorum that a comprehensive report of an inquiry into corruption in the Victoria Police Force should be finally buried by a three and a halfpage Ministerial statement: All the premises of the statement are based on the c;>pinion of the Solicitor. General, and even that statement contains ambiguities., On the first page of the document it states-The Solicitor-General said that it might be argued that the publicity given to committal proceedings and to inquests does not prevent persons being brought to trial, . . .

This is relevant to the case that has· been put forward by the Opposition. During the course of the inquiry a wealth of documented reports, thorough in their coverage, were carefully produced by the newspapers, television and radio. No one could believe that a jury could be empanelled not having some prior intelligence on the aspects of the inquiry.

It is unusual that the Ministerial statement should mention the names of four persons. To be fair to everyone involved in the Kaye inquiry, I refuse to call it an inquiry into abortion. It did not inquire into the matter of abortion law reform. As stated in the terms of reference, it was an inquiry into corruption within the Police Force. If Cabinet and the


Government are sinceret the names of the persons referred to should not have been included in the Ministerial statement.

I believe that I am speaking on behalf of the section of the public whom I represent when I ask: After $50tOOO of public money has been spent on an inquiry into corruption in the Police Forcet what finally has been presented? The statement contains three and a half pages of "waffle U-that is the only word that can be applied to the Ministerial statementt because it tells nothing of what occurred within the terms of the inquiry. In the 400-page document covering the 80 days of the inquiry by Mr. Kaye there must be substantial reference to police corruption.

I am aware that the Government is caught in a cleft stick. It has done everything possible to cover up its inability to direct and administer the various Public Service departments of the State andt in particulart to give the Police Force some real sense of guidance. The Ministerial statement emphasizes the points that I have madet and I am unable to support the motion.

Mr. MITCHELL (Benambra).There are three points I wish to make in regard to the Ministerial statement. FirstlYt whatever the feelings and sentiments may bet it has always been one of the staunchest planks of British justice that nothing is done to jeopardize a mants rightt no matter who he may be, to receive a fair trial. The Country Party will support the motion because of the need to uphold that important tenet.

At the same time, the Leader of my party made a very pungent pointt namely: Goodbye to the abortion inquiry! That is regrettable. I suggest that the Government should take further steps in regard to this matter because for many months the public has been led to believe that something is wrong with the Police Force, and something should be done to restore the confidence of the public.

During the course of the debate, members of the Opposition have done their best but mostly their remarks have been more flatulent than factual, and great play has been made by the OpPOSition that in this House matters which have been sub judice have been discussed. I am unable to recall such matters and I suggest that the next speaker for the Opposition should enumerate occasions in this House when a matter analogous to sub judice has been discussed.

The House divided on the motion (the Hon. Vernon Christie in the chair)-

Ayes 42 Noes 23

Majority for the motion 19

AyES.

Mr. Balfour Mr. Billing Sir Henry Bolte Mr. Borthwick Mr. Broad Mr. Burgin Mr. CreHin Mr. Dixon Mr. Doyle Mr. Dunstan Mr. Evans

(Ballaarat North) Mr. Evans

(Gippsland East) Mrs. Goble Mr. Hayes Mr. Jona Mr. Loxton Mr. McDonald

(Rodney) Mr. McLaren Mr.' Manson Mr. Meagher Mr. Mitche)) Mr. Rafferty Mr. Reese

Mr. Reid Mr. Ross-Edwards Mr. Rossiter Sir Arthur Rylah Mr. Scanlan Mr. Smith

(Bellarine) Mr. Smith

(Warmambool) Mr. Stephen Sir Edgar Tanner Mr. Taylor

(Balwyn) Mr. Templeton Mr. Thompson Mr. Trethewey Mr. Wheeler Mr. Whiting Mr. Wilcox Mr. Wiltshire.

Tellers: Mr. Taylor

(Gippsland South) ,Mr. Maclellan.

NOES.

Mr. Amos Mr. Bornstein Mr. Clarey Mr. Curnow Mr. Doube Mr. Edmunds Mr. Fe)) Mr. Flovti

Mr. Lewis (Portland)

Mr. Lind Mr. Lovegrove Mr. Mutton Mr. Shilton Mr. Turnbull Mr. WiJkes Mr. Wilton.

Tellers:

Mr. Fordham Mr. Ginifer Mr. Holding Mr. Kirkwood Mr. Lewis Mr. Simmonds

(Dundas) Mr. Trezise.


MINISTERIAL STATEM'ENT. ABANDONMENT OF TRAMWAYS AT

BALLARAT AND BENDIGO.

Mr. BALFOUR (Minister for Fuel and Power) .-1 desire to make a M'inisterial statement concerning the proposal by the State Electricity Commission of Victoria to abandon the tramway systems in the Cily of Ballarat and Borough of Sebastopol, -and the City of Bendigo and Borough of Eaglehawk.

In -accordance with the proc'e<!ure laid down in 'section 74 of the State Electricity Commission Act 1958, there ha's been laid before both Houses of Parliament today a statement of the intention of the State Ele'clricity Commission to abandon the tramways in the cities of Ballarat and Bendigo and the boroughs of Sebastopol and Eaglehawk. Since the question of abandoning the tramways was last considered by Parliament, additional information is available, and it is appropriate that I should elaborate on a number of points mentioned in the commission's statement.

Let me say at the outset that the Government ha's every intent,ion of ensuring that the residents of the two city areas have an efficient public transport system. The tramways will continue to operate until an a'lternative means of transport, satisfactory to ,the Transport Regula tion Board, has been provided for the residents of the two city areas who now rely on the trams. However, before the Transport Regulation Board can take. steps to institute an alternative transport 'system, 'it is neces-sa'ry for Parliament to indicate its concurrence with the proposal by allowing the 'statem'enl to lie on the table of both Houses, without disallowing it, during the next 24 sitting days of the Legislative Assembly.

I believe that all members of this Parliament will agree that the tramways in the two cities have outlived their usefulness. Quite apart from the financial burden which the operation of' these services places on the electricity consumers of this State, the

tramways are antiquated, uncomfortable and completely 'inadequate to meet the transport needs of cit ie'S the size of Ballarat and Bendigo. This does not dec-ry the work of the State Electricity Commission in operating thes-e tramways.

When the tramways were acquired by the State Electr-icity Commis'sion as part 'Of -the electricity undertakings in Ballarat and Bendigo in 1934, they were already old -and were in very bad condition. They had been converted to electric operation very early in the century. With the help of the Government of the day reconstruction work was undertaken to enable the tram!s to continue in operation for about fifteen years, by which time it was expected that a more suitable alternative system of public transport would have been evolved for the cities. The commission has done an admirable task in continuing to operate the tramways for more than twice their expected life.

A further consideration in the abandonment of the tramways is the traffic hazard which they create on the highways of the two cities. With a constantly increa'sing number of vehicles on the roads, tram,s create a hazard, pa'rticularly in those places where the tracks are laid near the centre of the roadway. On wet nights motorists often are unsure of the direction -in which trams are moving, even though the tr-ams have very adequate lights. Also, ,t'he loops, which are an essential part of a single-track system, tend to increase this hazard.

I do not think it is necessa-ry for me at this time to dwell upon the financial losses which the tramways are incurring. The financial position is covered in 'some detail in the ·statements which will be laid on the table. It is sufficient for me to say that while pa'tronage of the trams continues to decline-passengers decreased by lOA per cent last financial year compared with the previous financial year-costs are increasing. The increases in salaries and wages paid alone in 1969-70 have added over $15,000 to the annual cost of running the trams, and no doubt the 'trend will continue.


In an endeavour to prevent tramway losses becoming greater, fares were increased as from 26th January, 1969. However, the number of passengers carried has continued to decline since then and the over-all revenue on the tramway system has similarly continued to decrease. The tramway 'service'S again incurred a I()ss of nearly $500,000 la'st financial year.

It has been suggested that the trams should be retained because they are a tourist attraction, but I can assure honorable members that there is no evidence to support this contention. During the five years up to 30th June, 1970, the revenue from the chartering of trams amounted to $1,251 on the Bendigo system-an average of only slightly more than $250 a year. At Ballarat only $4,467 has been paid for charter trams in the same period. In both cities during the Christmas and New Year holiday period, services have been reduced because of lack of patronage, and for many years it has nat been necessary to provide even one special tram during the major festivals in the two cities-the Easter Carnival at Bendigo and the Begonia Festival at Ballarat.

Should abandonment proceed, a complete tramcar will be made available as a gift to the Bendigo' and Eaglehawk councils jointly and another one to the Ballarat and Sebastopol councils. One tramcar at Bendigo has been promised as a donation to the Australian Tramway Museum. A number of other requests have been received for' tramcars and equipment, but until the systems are finally abandoned, no de..cision will be made on their disposal. In the normal course they will be sold,.

As honorable members are aw'are, the Transport Regulation 'Board, at the request of the Minister of Transport, conducted a public inquiry into the public passenger transport facilities in the two cities. In its report of June, 1968, the board concluded-

The present form of street passenger transport in both urban areas is not in the best interests of the local communities.

Mr. Balfour.

The local tramway systems are limited in their area' of operation and cannot cater for developments which have occurred. Their rehabilitation is not practicable.

The board went on to recommend.( 1) that the electric tramway system in

both cities at present operated by :the State Electricity Commission of Victoria should be discontinued as soon as ·alternative motor omnibus services can be provided; and

(2) that the board should· be given 'approval to call for ,applications by public advertisement from persons interested in providing alternative road transport facilities.

There is no prospect of the tramway systems in Ballarat and Bendigo being reconstructed. At Ballarat there are over 16 miles of existing track and at $115,000 a mile it would cost $1 . 86 million to replace this track. At Bendigo the cost of reconstruction would be $1· 27 million for 11 miles. These costs are based on the experience of the Melbourne and Metropolitan Tramways Board. It will be noted that these estimates do not provide for any expansion of the present systems.

The rolling-stock in Ballarat and Bendigo is very old-all except a few cars are over 50 years old~ and even the newest are at least 45 years old. Consequently, they would need to be replaced. New cars for oneman operation have not been built in Australia for many years and there are no modern designs available and no construction standards. It WOUld, therefore, be necessary to start from the drawing board. Probably each new car would cost $40,000 or more, and if 25 cars were built for Ballarat and 21 for Bendigo, the cost would be $1.84 million.

Thus the total cost of reconstructing the tramway systems would be about $5 million. Capital charges on this amount would be of the order of $450,000 a year, so that the annual loss would then be nearly double what it is now. Even this large expenditure would not provide an

Ministerial [15 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Statement~ 141

adequate service for the developing city areas which extend far beyond the existing tramways systems. In Bendigo it has been estimated that 70 per cent of the population lives more than a quarter of a mile from a tram service, and in Ballarat 60 per cent of the population is in & similar position. A new tramway system, therefore, is quite out of the question and the provision of a motor omnibus service· is the only suitable alternative.

The Government is firmly con· vinced that private bus operators will be able to' provide a satisfactory bus service for the cities of Ballarat and Bendigo. Except" for the Melbourne and Metropolitan Tramways Board's services, and a few Victorian Railways buses, bus 'servic'es throughout Victoria are privately owned and the public is being served effectively. ·When the Geelong tramway system was abandoned in 1956, it was replaced by privately operated buses, which now provide a very wide cover over the whole of the Geelong area. While experience shows that privately operated buses can be ex· pected to give an adequate service to the residents of Ballarat and Bendigo, the Transport Regulation Board has made further inquiries with the aim of assisting Parliament in its consideration of this question.

Naturally the board could not anticipate Parliament's decision in this matter. If Parliament concurs with the State Electricity Commission's plans, in accordance with the Transport Regulation Act, the board would call for applications from parties interested in providing bus services. However, the board has had some discussions with bus operators who might be in a p.osition to apply in response to its invitation. These discussions indicate that local bus operators are interested and that a private bus service of a high standard would be available to replace the tram services in the two cities as and when they are abandoned. The board would consult with the local councils before fixing bus routes and services.

Local bus operators at Ballarat have indicated that they would be applicants and would be able to provide service covering all existing tram routes. Regular bus services starting before 7 a.m., with the last bus from the city at about 11 p.m. would be operated. A 20·minute to a half·hour service would be provided during the day and a 40 to 60-minute service after the evening peak period. There would be additional trips during peak periods. On Saturday mornings a half-hour service would be provided. while on Saturday afternoons, Sundays and holidays, buses would run at 40 to 60-minute intervals. Also, a late service would be provided on Saturday evening.

For Bendigo the present bus operators have also indicated that they would be applicants and could provide a similar kind of service. Generally, the service would be halfhourly during the day and every 40 to 60 minutes after evening peak, until the last bus at about 11 p.m. There would be additional trips during peak periods. Here also the operators would provide Saturday afternoon and evening services as well as a Sunday service. The frequency of service I have indicated would provide a satisfactory transport system in each of the citi.es.

The operators at both Ballarat and Bendigo have sa.id that they would purchase at the outset sufficient high standard buses-the most modem available in this country-to make up a material portion of their fleets. These new buses would be used for the basic services, while the buses in the existing fleet would be used to supplement services at peak periods and to provide standby spares.

The operators at Ballarat would purchase sufficient additional new two-door type buses and associated ticket machines and replace the twelve existing buses with new modem vehicles as necessary. The Bendigo operators would purchase a number of new vehicles of the twodoor type. With their existing vehicles, which are of good standard,


the new buses would provide a high quality fleet. Photographs of the type of modem buses which would be purchased are attached to the copies of this statement, which I have made available to honorable members. It is possible that bus operators from other parts of the State would also be applicants.

The standard of comfort provided by modem vehicles will, I assure honorable members, far exceed that offered by the traIpse

It is proposed that the same level of fares should apply as those at present charged by private bus operators in the metropolitan area and at Geelong. These fares are less than the present tram fares at Ballarat and Bendigo. The proposed charges compared with the State Electricity Commission tram fares are-

One section-7 cents as compared with 8 cents on the trams.

Two sections--12' cents as compared with 13 cents on the trams.

Three sections-14 cents as compared with 16 cents on the trams.

Four sections-15 cents as compared with 18 cents on the trams.

The fares for children would be-One section-4 cents. Two sections-7 cents. Three and four sections-8 cents. These are the same as the present

tram fares for children. . In the course of discussions on

the future of the Ballarat and Bendigo tramway services, concern has been felt for pensioners who may not have been able to obtain concession fares on a private bus service. In common with the Victorian Railways and the Melbourne and Metropolitan Tramways Board, the tramways undertakings in Ballarat and Bendigo have provided concession fares for pensioners since June, 1958, but no concessions are available on

Mr. Balfour.

private bus lines. To cushion the effect of the transfer from trams to buses, the State Electricity Commission is prepared to make a regular payment to the Transport Regulation Board so that this concession can continue for a period of five years in a form which will be decided by the board. The concession would be available not only to pensioners now using trams, but to all pensioners travelling by buses in the urban areas of Ballarat and Bendigo and for journeys between Sebastopol and Eaglehawk and the city centres.

The commission is not unmindful of the future of the employees who will be displaced when the tramway services are closed down. The staff members, of whom there are seventeen, will be retained in the commission's service in duties which are suitable to their experience. The commission would endeavour to place as many of the tramway employees as possible in alternative employment, but most would be retrenched. Details of the conditions under which retrenchments will be made and the payments to which all employees will be entitled are set out in some detail in the commission's statement. Briefly, employees will be given three to six months' notice and, provided that they remain in the commission's service until released, will be entitled to the following separation payments:-

(l) A separation payment of two weeks' pay for each year of service.

(2) Long service leave, subject to a qualifying period of three years' service, of 1.3 weeks' pay for each year of service.

(3) Retirement benefits-a retiring gratuity of $45 for each year of service subject to a qualifying period of three years' service, and if the employee has joined the commission's retirement and benefit fund which commonced on I st May, 1970, the amount of the retiring gratuity up to the date of joining plus two and a half times the contributions they had made to the fund. that is, the'ir own plus the employer's contributions.


Thus, a man with ten years' service will be entitled to a retrenchment benefit of about $2,000. Many men have more than twenty years' service, and there are some with over 30 years' service, and therefore could receive as much as $6,000.

Under its legislation, the commission has no obligation to accept responsibility for the re'moval of tramway tracks and the restoration of the roadway, but it is prepared to provide a substantial measure of financial assistance for this purpose as well as for the provision of runoffs at bus stops. Discussions have taken place with the Country Roads Board and the councils concerned, and it has been made clear that contributions, amounting in all to $1. 22 million, would be made in respect of roads within their respective authorities, and the board and three of the four councils have indicated their agreement in principle to the proposal. The Bendigo City Council, while not disagreeing with the proposals, indicated that it was not prepared to give its formal agreement to the provisions because it considered that the whole matter of public transport had not been resolved. The payments for track removal and road reinstatement would be spread over a period of eight years at a rate commensurate with the authorities' expected expenditure. As bus runoffs would be expected to be made more quickly. payments for these would be made over three years.

Councils and other bodies concerned with town planning agree that the flow of traffic would benefit by the absence of tram lines whkh would allow much greater freedom in planning the use of thoroughfares to better effect. In fact the Ballarat council in a letter to me dated 30th September, 1969. has requested the Government to abandon the tramway system in that city and to replace It with a privately owned and operated bus system.

Attached to the notes which I have had circulated to honora~le mem~crs is a chart which shows In graphIcal form the progressive deterioration of tramways finance and patronage.

In recommending this matter to the House, I trust that this project will be permitted to proceed so that both these major cities can be provided with an efficient and up-to-date transport service. I move-

That this House take note of the Ministerial statement.

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North).I move-

That the debate be now adjourned. I am prepared to agree to an adjournment of the ~ebate at this stage, subject to the matter being raised within a period of 24 days, as specified by the Minister.

The motion for the adjournment of the debate was agreed to, and it was ordered that the debate be adjourned until next day.

MOTOR CAR (AMENDMENT) BILL. Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secre

tary), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Motor Car Act 1958 and the Motor Car Act 1969.

The motion was agreed to. The Bill was brought in and read

a first time. ROAD TRAFFIC (AMENDMENT)

BILL. Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secre

tary), by leave, moved for. ~eave .to , bring in a Bill to m'ake provISion With

respect to the parking of. vehic~es 'at Parliament House and 'm alpme resorts, to amend the Road Traffic Act 1958 in relation to the parking of vehicles at Parliament House and in alpine resorts, to amend the Parliamentary Committees Act 1968 and for other purpose'S.

The motion wa's agreed to. The Bill wa's brought in and read

a first time.

LOTTERIES GAMING AND BETIING (AMENDMENn BILL.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary), by leave, moved for leave,. to bring in a Bill to amend the Lottenes Gaming and Betting Act 1966.


a first time.

144 C;imes (Amendment) Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Footwear Regulation Bill.

HOME FINANCE (AMENDMENT) BILL.

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and! Treasurer), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Home Finance Act 1962. .



DISCHARGED SERVICEM,EN'S PREFERENCE (AMENDMENT)

BILL. Mr. R£ID (Attorney-General), by

leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Discharged Servicemen's Preference Act 1943.


The Bill wa's brought in and read a first time.

CRIMES (AMENDMENT) BILL. Mr. REID· (Attorney-General),

by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Crimes Act 1958, and section 141 of the Justices Act 1958.



EVIDENCE (SCIENTIFIC TESTS) BILL

Mr. REID (Attorney-General), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Evidence Act 1958, and for other purposes.


a first time.

CO-OPERATIVE HOUSING SOCIETIES (AMENDMENT) BILL. Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of

Housing), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Cooperative Housing Societies Act 1958.



HOSPITALS SUPERANNUATION (AMENDMENT) BILL

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a. Bill to amend the Hospitals Superannuation Act 1965, and for other purposes.


a first time.

CIVIL AVIATION (CARRIERS' LIABILITY) BILL.

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Civil Aviation (Carriers' Liability) Act 1961.


a first time.

BOILERS AND PRESSURE VESSELS BILL.

Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of Labour and Industry) , by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to consolidate and amend the law with respect to matters relating to boilers and pressure vessels, and for other purposes.

The motion was agreed to. The Bill was .broug~t in and read

a first time.

FOOlWEAR REGULATION BILL Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of

Labour and Industry) , , by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend and consolidate the law regulating the manufacture and sale of footwear and for other purposes.


a first time.

GROUNDWATER (AMENDMENT) BILL.

Mr. BALFOUR (Minister of Mines), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend Part III. of the Groundwater Act 1969.


a first time.

Votes on [15 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Account. 145

RIVER IMPROVEMENT (AMENDMENT) DILL.

LAND CONSERVATION BILL

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister of Water Supply), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the River Improvement Act 1958 and the Local Authorities Superannuation Act 1958, and for other purposes.

Sir HENRY DOL TE (premier and Treasurer) moved for leave to bring in a Bill to make better provision in relation to the conservation of public land and for other purposes.



a first time.


ESTIMATES. VOTES ON ACCOUNT.

Sir HENRY BOLTE (premier and Treasurer) presented a message from His Excellency the Governor, transmitting an Estimate of Expenditure for the months of October, November and December, 1970, and recommending an appropriation from the Consolidated Revenue accordingly.

The House went into Committee of Supply.


That a sum not exceeding $152,631,400 be granted to Her Majesty on account for or towards defraying the following services for the year 1970-71;-

Division No.

1. Legislative Council-Expenses of Select Committees .. _ .. 2. Legislative Assembly-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services ..

3. Legislative Council and Legislative Assembly House Committee-Salaries,

General Expenses, and Other Services .. 4. Parliamentary Printing-Printing of Hansard, &c. . . S. Parliament Library-Salaries and General Expenses .. 6. Parliamentary Debates-Salaries and General Expenses .. 7. Governor's Office-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services

8. Premier's Office-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 9. State Film Centre-Salaries and General Expenses .. ..

10. Soil Conservation Authority-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services

11. State Development-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services

12. Agent-General-Salaries and General Expenses .. 13. Public Service Board-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services ..

14. Public Service Board Electronic Data Processing Service Bureau-Salaries

General Expenses . . . . . . 15. Audit Office-Salaries and General Expenses . . . . ..

16. Chief Secretary's Office-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services

17. Totalizator Administration-Salaries and General Expenses 18. State Accident Insurance Office-Salaries .. 19. State Motor Car Insurance Office-Salaries .. 20. Workers' Compensation Board-Salaries " .. .. 21. Fisheries and Wildlife-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services

22. Government Shorthand Writer-Salarics and General Expenses 23. Government Statist-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services

24. Police-Salaries and General Expenses .. 25. Police Service Board-Salaries and General Expenses ..

26. State Library, National Museum and Institute of Applied Science

Administration-Salaries and General Expenses . . . . 27. State Library-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 28. National Museum-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .,

29. Institute of Applied Science-Salaries, General,Expenses, and Other Services

30. National Gallery-Salaries, General ExpenseS, and Other Services .,

31. Immigration-Salaries a.nd General Expenses· .. .. ..

32. Social Welfare Administration and Research and Statistics-Salaries,

General Expenses, and Other Services . . . . . .

33. Family Welfare-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services


Months Ending 31st December,

1970.

$

900 50,700

40,500 50,000 14,000 30,700 24,500

296,000 43,500

186,400 45,000 35,000

150,000

85,000 160,600 132,700 16,300

170,000 213,000

18,300 286,000

15,700 134,000

7,780,000 2,000

74,900 225,400 44,200 38,500

200,000 27,000

97,300 1,550,000

146 Votes on [ASSEMBLY.] Account.

Division No.

34. Youth Welfare-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 35. Prisons-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 36. Training-Salaries, General, Expenses, and Other Services .. 37. Probation and Parole-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 38. Labour and Industry-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 39. Education-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 40. Teachers Tribunal-Salaries and General Expenses ., .. 41. Attorney-General-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 42. Courts Administration-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 43. Registrar-General and Registrar of Titles-Salaries and General Expenses 44. Registrar of Companies-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 45. Rent Control-Salaries and General Expenses 46. Public Trustee-Salaries and General Expenses .. 47. Treasury--Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 48. Pay-roll Tax-Payment to Commonwealth Government 49. Tender Board-Salaries and General Expenses .. 50. State Superannuation Board-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 51. Registry of Co-operative Housing Societies and Co-operative Societies and Home Finance Administration-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 52. Taxation Office-Salaries, General Expenses and Other Services 53. Stamp Duties-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 54. Government Printer-Salaries and General Expenses .. 55. Crown Lands Administration-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services .. 56. Services Survey-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 57. Botanic and Domain Gardens and National Herbarium-Salaries and General Expenses . . . . 58. Public Works-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 59. Ports and Harbours-Salaries, General Expenses and Other Services, 60. Local Government-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 61. Valuer-General-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 62. Weights and Measures-Salaries and General Expenses 63. Town and Country Planning Board-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services

64. Mines-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 65. Explosives-Salaries and General Expenses 66. Gas Regulation-Salaries ., 67. Agriculture Administration-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 68. Agricultural Education--Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 69. Agricultural-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 70. Horticulture-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 71. Animal Health-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 72. Animal Industry-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 73. Dairying-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 74. Extension Services-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 75. Health Administration-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 76. General Health-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 77. Tuberculosis- Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 78. Maternal and Child Welfare-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services ..

79. Mental Hygiene-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 80. Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs-Contributions to Aboriginal Affairs Fund 81. Ministry of Fuel and Power-Salaries, and General Expenses 82. Railway Construction Board-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 83. Ministry of Transport-Salaries and General Expenses .. 84. Forests Commission-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 85. State Rivers and Water Supply Commission-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services 86. Railways-Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services

Total ..


Months Endins 31st December,

1970.

$

580,000 990,000 40,500

115,000 427,000

59,000,000 13,000

365,000 1,225,000

451,000 95,000 15,400

180,000 11,328,000 1,500,000

70,000 80,000

45,500 225,000 210,000 890,000

620,000 410,000

75,000 2,130,000

520,000 119,000 128,000 65,000'

77,000 360,000' 36,800 11,400

465,000 266,000 428,000 495,000 309,000 206,000 318,000 45,200

10,000,000 1,280,000

880,000

1,670,000 6,800,000

90,000 15,000

38,500 10,000

980,000

3,200,000 30,500,000

152,631,400


The period for which Supply has been granted expires at the end of this month and, pending the passing of the Appropriation Act, further Supply is necessary to cover payments falling due after 30th September. The Supply Bill now before the House covers the months of October, November and December next. The amount provided in the Bill is $152,631,400. This is the amount necessary to cover expenditure requirements of departments up to 31 st December next on the basis of current levels of outlay. There are no unusual" items in the Supply schedule, and the sums included under each division are those necessary to cover the normal pattern of expenditure over the next three months.

Honorable members will have the opportunity for a full-scale Supply debate after the Budget is brought down in the next two weeks. Meanwhile, as it is necessary to have this measure dealt with in another place in time to cover October payments, I ask that it be dealt with expeditiously.

This is a very brief introduction for a rather large sum, but it is understandable in the spring sessional period because soon the Budget will be introduced and a full-scale debate will be available to honorable members and welcomed. Naturally, in the autumn sessional period, a Supply Bill has a different type of introduction. There is nothing unusual in the Supply schedule, but the discussion on it will give honorable members an opportunity to air any grievances which they may have or to bestow any prai·se that they may care to give-it cuts both ways. The debate will be resumed on Tuesday next. As another place has seen fit to adjourn for a fortnight, there is no urgency about this measure tonight. However, it is imperative that it should be passed by the Committee next week, so that when honorable members in another place condescend

to return, they will be able to put their imprimatur on what honorable members in this Chamber have considered over a week.

Progress was reported.

LAND CONSERVATION BILL. Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister for

Conservation) .-1 move-That this Bill be now read ·a second time.

When outlining the Government's policy prior to the elections, the Premier stated-

The Government will have a full study made of all the Crown lands in Victoria with the object of setting aside 'and permanently reserving substantial ·areas for national parks, wildlife reserves and forest parks. This should ensure that at least 5 per cent of the State is preserved for ever.

If accepted by the Parliament, this Bill will provide the statutory means for achieving this objective. It is the Government's intention that the future use of Crown land should no longer be determined by the traditional methods of the past, but that it should be determined after proper scientific study to understand the inherent capability and suitability of the land for different uses and after consideration of requirements of the community for land to be used for particular uses.

Although the Premier's statement indicated the Government's recognition of an immediate desire to make good the deficiency of land which has been set aside for preservation purposes, this is a Land Conservation Bill and not ,a land presefVation Bill. The legislation provides for consideration of land for all purposes, but it specifically asks that those uses which tend to have been given less consideration, and even a low priority since first settlement, should not be neglected in the future.

Conserva tion is a common word at present. It is used in so many different ways that I believe that it is important for the House to appreciate its meaning. What better

148 Land. Conservat(on [ASSEMBLY.] Bill.

reference for this could i have than the constitution of the Australian Conservation Foundation? The· first abject of the foundation is- ' to make every effort to ensure that the land and waters of the Commonwealth and its territories are used 'with wisdom and foresight and that competing demands on them are resolved in the best long-term interests of the nation.

Conservation is a man-made concept' and is concerned with his attitude to his environment and its resources. It is a concept made necessary because of the problems which man has himself created by his ability to alter and modify his environment to his own ends. In doing so without a proper understanding and knowledge of the different kinds of environment, man has made serious mistakes. Modern technology has increased man's ability to make changes and to make them quickly. This has increased his ability to make irreparable mistakes in the use of his environment and the resources which it presents.

Unwise land use for agriculture and grazing has produced soil erosion over large areas of the earth's surface. The resulting run-off intensifies floods and flood damage, destroys, public utilities or at least makes them less efficient. Industrial and urban development has created environments' which are becoming increasingly poorer places 'as a habitat for human beings. Crowding of people, a phenomenon known to have bad effects, together with air pollution, litter, ugliness and noise combine to make big cities unsatisfactory, human habitat or at least places from which people want to escape from time to time, to seek recreation in the open spaces. Throughout the world, even in rural areas, water pollution, destruction of scenic and landscape values and loss of wHdlife are robbing the people of suitable areas in which to seek such relaxation and enjoyment.

Conservation is achieved when it is possible for man to fit into his environment in such a way that his physical, intellectual and aesthetic

Mr. Borthwick.

needs can be satisfied by the resources of the environment without spoiling its capability to go on satisfying these needs for generation after generation. This means that man must seek to maintain his own habitat in a fit state for his survival, and conservationists seek the ways and means of doing this for the welfare and benefit of people.

In a talk on "Nature Reserves and National Parks in Relation to the Conservation of Man's Environment" to the Melbourne meeting of the Australian and New Zealand Association for the Advancement of Science in 1967, Mr. R. G. Downes, Cha1irman of the Soil Conservation Authol'lity osaid-

Just as we are interested in poor soils not just because they yield poor crops, but because they make poor people; fire and flood because they destroy the hope and dignity of human beings; urban ugliness and pollution because they, make life for people living in cities less tolerable, so we should be interested in parks and reserves because destruction of flora and fauna robs. people of 'the ability to observe, enjoy and understand their surroundings and this detracts from the quality of the environment in which people must live and work.

By comparison with many other countries of the world, Victoria's environmental problems have not yet reached disastrous proportions. There is still time to act, but action is needed quickly because Victoria is a heavily populated State,' and these problems will intensify.

To achieve conservation we must understand the different kinds of environment or land and integrate our scientific and technical knowledge to provide appropriate systems of use and management that can be sustained. Basically, this requires not only a proper understanding of land, its natur~, its capability for various uses, its hazards when used for different purposes and how these can be avoided, but also the needs of the community for land for various kinds of use.

A community needs land for production of the basic requirements for living-food, fibre, timber and water. Our community also needs land for

Land Conservation [15 SEPTEMBgR, 1970.] Bill. 149

urban and industrial purposes and for the' associated transport systemsroads, railways and airports. It needs land for {Ustribution of power---for transmiss~on lines and pipelines-and for the production of minerals and building materials. It needs land for national parks, primitive· areas, 'wildo

life reserves and as areas for ecological reference and for the preservation of plant and animal COm

munities. It needs these not just as objects for academic study, but also because they maintain a pool of biological material which could be extremely useful to man in the future.

Some uses of land such as agriculture are flexible because the use of the land can easily be changed to another use if this is necessary in the public interest. Some use~ such as forestry, orchards or urban development are inflexible because once such a use has been applied it is not fea'sible to change readily to some other use. Once imposed, an inflexible use is likely to persist for a long time., Some uses of land such as a national park and a water supply catchment are compatible and the land can be put to a multiple use. Some uses such as agriculture and national parks are incompatible and decisions must be made about which use should be chosen in the public intere,st. Some uses, once imposed. preclude the land from being used for certain other purposes. In this respect, any use at all which modifies the environment precludes the use of the land for the 'preservation, of unimpaired ecological systems.

Conservation of natural resources is basically a matter of making wise decisions about, firstly, how land, Should be used and, secondly, how it 'should be managed so that it will continue to m'aintain its usefulness for the chosen purpose.

So far as the community is concerned-rather than particular individuals-the various uses to which land may be put are inherently of equal importance. A community needs land 'for national parks or for extractive industries just as much as it needs land for agriculture, forestry

or urban development. The proportions of land required for each of these purposes and the specific location of the land to be used for each of the particular purposes are the decisions which must be made on behalf of the community. From tinle to time, the need for land for some particular use may be greater or less than the need for some other use. Obviously, when this country was first settled, the most pressing need of the community was· to turn the land to productive uses to produce the food and fibre the pioneers required. These settlers were not concerned with the maintenance of habitat for wildlife. There was an abundance of unimpaired habitat and the wildlife was a nuisance.

Unfortunately, this philosophy persisted for far too long, the re'Sult being that we have an abundance of land for productive purposes, much of which is still not providing the productivity it could, but we have no examples of many different kinds of land in an unimpaired state that landuse scientists could use as reference areas for study. Furthermore, in whole regions there is an inadequacy of'la~d for the, preservation of plant and animal communities, or even for open bushland recreation space for our rapidly increasing urban populations.

The Government expects this legislation, which will be without precedent in Australia, to be the first step in correcting some deficiences and preventing any further mistakes in the allocation of the remaining Crown l~nd for different purposes in Victoria. The inadequate attention .to the need for preservation uses in ,the past has probably been as much due to our inadequate knowledge of the ecology of the plant and animal communities and the critical features of the environment on which their survival depended as it has been to indifference. It has been relatively easy to make a case for productive uses because there was plenty of information about the productive capability of land as the result of investigation and research. There has been

150 Lmtd Conservation [ASSEMBLY.J Bill.

insufficient information about our unique plants and animals. In converting large areas of land to productive uses several species have been lost and many are under pressure.

The provisions of this Bill will help to correct this situation. Technicallyskilled people will be responsible for collecting basic information about land and for initiating investigations to obtain specific kinds of information, if it is not available. They will be required to make recommendations about its future use in accordance with the needs of the community. In this way the important task of land use determination should become less of a political and parochial wrangle, and more of a scientific assessment and decision. The Bill is a widened statutory expression of the intention of the Government when the Premier issued his administrative directions to the Land Utilization Advisory Council in 1966. '

The Government is determined that in future the use of Crown land shall be determined on the basis-

(i) Of properly collected, collated and assessed technical information about land and in particular the ecological features which make it useful for one purpose or another, and with a knowledge' of the critical interactions between the various features, such as soils, topography, hydrology and flora and fauna, which maintain the stability of the system;

(ii) that none of the many uses of land required by a community for different purposes shall be neglected from consideration;

(iii) that so far as it is technically feasible each of these needs for land will be satisfied in the best possible way in the long-term public interest; and

(iv) that decisions will be reached without regard to narrow political and parochial pressures, in such a way that the community can participate.

Making decisions how land shall be used is not a simple matter if it, is to be done properly. In the past, many

Mr. Borthwick.

mistakes were made because decisions were considered to be simply a matter of saying what the land would be used for, rather than finding out what it could be used for and then finally deciding what it should be used for. It is a complex technical problem requiring adequate basic information, a breadth of outlook and technical knowledge in relation to many uses of land and a high degree of professional competence and integrity. Although many people may understand the significant characteristics of land for assessing its capability for some particular form of land use, few people have been required to study land, understand its dynamics and so be able to interpret its capability or suitability for a whole range of different uses.

The character of land is determined by the particular combination of the features of which it is constituted, namely, the climate, geology, topography, soils, hydrology and the plant and animal communities. The character of the land is the result of the interactions between these features throughout an evolutionary period. Major differences in land such as that between Mallee land and our alpine areas can be readily recognized by unskilled people, but much more subtle differences must be recognized before a proper understanding and assessment of land can be made.

Land is a dynamic system because the interactions between the features is a continuing process. Undisturbed systems tend to present an appearance of unchanging stability in which the particular combination and relative abundance of plants and animals -the biological community-is that best able to survive under the environmental conditions. The stability is . something dynamic and all systems are not equally stable.

Different kinds of land have varying degrees of stability and this determines how they can be modified by man for any particular use. Some kinds of land in areas where the conditions are unkind for plant growth. such as in the arid or alpine areas, are

Land Conservation [15 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Bill. 151

kept stable by relatively few plant species which have evolved to survive in those conditions. If the land is used in a way which is unfavourable to those species, the system becomes unstable and there are undesirable reactions leading to a destruction of the productive capability of the land. On some kinds of land where the conditions are excellent for plant growth, there is such a wide range of plant species that when man interferes he merely makes the conditions more suitable for one or other of these existing species. In such systems man can fail in his attempts to change the system to his purpose, but the stability remains although valuable resources may be lost. Examples of these kinds of situations can be seen in various parts of Victoria.

The uses to which land can be put are primarily determined by the nature of "the land itself and how it will react to changes imposed by man. Proper land use is that which can be applied so that stability is retained and the land can be managed satisfactorily to continue to be useful for that purpose. Before making decisions about the use of land, it is essential to study and characterize land, and know the properties of the features of which it is composed and how these are interacting to give dynamic stability. Knowing this, it is possible to assess the suitability and capability of the various kind~ of land for different purposes and specify the hazards which could be involved when land is put to particular uses, and also whether these hazards can be prevented or overcome.

Having considered the possible uses of a particular kind of land, an assessment of its relative value to the community when used for each of these purposes can be made after taking into account those factors which must be considered in the public interest-

(i) What are the relative priorities of the needs of the community for land for different uses, both now and in the future?

(ii)

(iii)

(iv)

Can any of the potentitti uses for an area of land be provided by alternative means?

To what extent are the potential uses compatible and is it possible to achieve multiple use?

What are the long-term ben-efits to be obtained in relation to those which are forgone by using land for one particular purpose instead of another?

These questions having been ~n~wered, it is possible. to allocate prIorIties for the potential uses for the various kinds of land and so make recomlnenda tions about the best future use in the public interest. By these means, the proposed council will achieve the prime objective of the Bill, that is, "carry out investigation~ ~nd ma.ke recommendations to the MInIster WIth respect to the use of public land in order to provide for the balanced use of all land in Victoria".

Before turning to an explanation of the Bill, I should like to make it plain that the Land Utilization Advisory Council, in carrying out the administrative direction of the Premier issued in 1966, has laid the basis for the present approach to the consideration of the future use of Crown lands. With no additional staff in any of t~e constituent departments and authorities, it established study groups of officers from each ~f the bodies represented on the councIl and carried out extremely valuable work in collecting and collating information on land in different parts of the State. This information, which has been studied already by the Land Utilization Advisory Council, is ready and available for the new council to consider.

The proposed change in the composition of the new council should not be construed as being a reflection on either the chairman or the members of the Land Utilization Advisory Council which it replaces. The changes are being made because the

152 Land Conservation [ASSEMBLY.] Bill.

Government believes that some nondepartmental representation is desirable and that a chairman with no other functions or duties should be responsible for the day-by-day activities and the continuous progress of the council's investigations.

Before dealing with the Bill clause by clause, I believe it would be helpful if I gave a brief outline of the nature of the proposals. A Land Conservation Council is to be established to study public land and make recommendations about its future use. Before the council begins to study an area, its intention to do so will be made known to the public in two ways-

(a) The council's programme of the areas it intends to investigate must be tabled in Parliament when it is 'Submitted to the Minister for approval by the Governor in Counci'l; and

(b) Notices must be given in the Government Gazette and in appropriate newspapers when a study is about to begin in a particular district.

The information obtained from the study will be published and it will be available to all interested departments, public authorities, or-, ganizations or persons who will have the right to make submissions to the council about the use of the land.

After considering the' information and the lSubmi'ssions from interested parties, the council will advise all those who made submissions and also all municipalities, departments and public authorities which have an interest in the area, of the recommendations it proposes to make to the Minister.

Further submissions may be made to the council within a specified period after which it will reconsider its recommendations and forward them, either in the original or in an amended form, together with all the submissions it has received, to the Minister and also have them tabled

Mr. Borthwick.

in Parliament. Having received and considered the recommendations, the Minister is obliged to give fourteen days' notice to the Minister of a department or an authority, which is affected by any of the recommendations, of his intention to ask the Governor in Council to accept the recommendations and give notice to the appropriate authority.

I tum now to the individual clauses, and I shall explain 'their intention in more detail. Clause 1 provides that the Act shall be known as the Land Conservation Act and it shall come into operation on a day to be proclaimed by the Governor in Council.

Clause 2 contains definitions, the most important of which is the definition of public land, the land which is to be considered by the council. It includes any Crown land or land vested in any public authority, excluding that vested in a municipality or a sewerage authority, and that which is situated within a city, town or borough.

Clause 3 constitutes the Land Conservation Council, which shall consist of-

(a) a person appointed by the Governor in Council who shall be Chairman;

(b) the Chairman of the Soil Conservation Authority or his nominee who shall be Deputy Chairman;

(c) the Director of Agriculture or his nominee;

(d) the Chairman of the Forests Commission or his nominee;

(e) the Secretary for Lands or his nominee;

(I) the Chairman of the State Rivers and Water Supply Commission or his nominee;

(g) the Secretary for Mines or his nominee;

(h) the Director of Fisheries and Wildlife or his nominee;

(i) the Director of National Parks or his ll:ominee;


(j) a person with experience in the conservation techniques used in developing land for primary production, appointed by the Governor In

(k) Council; and

two persons with special knowledge of and experience in some aspect of the conservation of natural resources, appointed by the Governor in Council from a panel of five names submitted by the Conservation Council of Victoria.

The new council will consist of the former Land Utilization Advisory Council, together with the Director of National Parks and four persons appointed by the Governor in Council who shall not be officers or employees in the Public Service or 'in the service of a public authority. One of these is the chairman, who shall be appointed on a full-time basis.

The persons appointed by the Governor in Council shall be appointed for a period not exceeding four years but shall be eligible for reappointment. By constituting the council in this way" the Government believes that it has provided for nondepartmental views about the future use of land to be expressed at the council. By having a full-time chairman free of lany other distracting duties and responsibilities, it has provided the means for the council to maintain continuity of operation.

The rest of the clause makes the usual provisions for appointment and reappointment of members, removal from office in the event of certain circumstances, for the holding of meetings, and for the payment of salaries, fees and travelling expenses.

The appointment of a secretary and such other officers and employees as are necessary, subject to the Public Service Act, is provided for in clause 4. It is intended that the council should have not only the necessary administrative staff but also a small group ,of professional people who can

work with officers from the constituent departments and authorities 'in collecting and coUating material and also assist the chairman by making special investigations, preparing reports and examining submissions in relation to the recommendations. This clause also provides for the council to use the services of officers of other departments by Ministerial agreement. It also provides that the council may, with the approval of the Minister, enter into a contract for the services of any person having special qualifications to undertake special duties either on a part-time basis or for a limited period. The chairman shall, for the purposes of the Public Service Act in relation to the staff appointed for the purposes of this Act, and for the purposes of the Audit Act, have all the powers, duties and functions of a permanent head of a Oovernment department.

The duties of the council are set out in clause 5. Paragraphs (b) and (c) of sub-clause (1) make provision for the council to assume the existing statutory functions of the Land Utilizatl6n Advisory Council which it will' replace. Paragraph (a) contains the important function of the council and the main purpose of the Bill. Under it th~ council is required to carry out investigatior.·c; and make recommendations with respect to the use of the public land in order to provide for the balanced use of land in Victoria. Balanced use has the meaning that all the needs of the community for land for defined purposes are to be satisfied to the extent that the council is able; the council shall make recommendations about the future use of public land to restore the balance, if in its opinion there is an inadequacy at present for the satisfaction of certain needs of the community. Since the first settlement there has been an . emphasis on the alienation of Crown land for productive uses, hence, subclause (2) of clause 5 specifically


directs the council's attention to certain non-productive uses of land which are needed by the comrnunity. These are:-

(a) the preservation of areas which are ecologically Significant;

(b) the conservation of areas of natural interest, beauty or historical interest;

(c) the creation and preservation of areas of reserved forest;

( d) the creation and preservation of areas for national parks;

(e) the creation and preservation of areas for leisure and recrea tion, and in particular of areas close to cities and towns for bushland recreation reserves;

(f) the creation and preservation of reserves for the conservation of fish and wildlife; and

(g) the preservation of species of native plants.

In essence, the Bill directs the council to recommend any use to which land can be put, but it emphasizes that these particular uses should not be overlooked and must be taken into consideration. The Government has done this because it appreciates the growing concern of the community about the importance of these uses. Furthermore, it recognizes that our rapidly rising population and urbanization demand that uses which can be shared by all, rather than some of the people, will become an even greater necessity in the future. In this respect, I feel sure that all will recognize the increasing need, for land for use as areas of leisure and recreation, and particularly the need for adequate areas close to cities and towns; for bushland and open space recreation reserves. Unless provision is made for these kinds of uses now, there will never be another opportunity.

The emphasis on these kinds of uses is not a direction to the council to refrain from making recommendations that land should be used for

Mr. Borthwick.

productive purposes, and the provision in sub-clause (3) of clause 5 to enable alienation makes this clear. In sub-clause (3) of clause 5, provision is made not only for the council to recommend the alienation of land, but also for the council to give its opinion as to the way in which the land should be alienated to ensure the most satisfactory use and management in the public interest. This provision is meant to take care of those situations where the proper use and management of the land for the recommended productive purpose will depend on, for example, the size of the holding or the nature of the tenure. Subclause (4) of clause 5 is a general provision indicating to people that it is their right to make submissions to the council as to how any public land can be better used to meet the needs of the people of Victoria.

Clause 6 provides for the council to enter into arrangements with other bodies. By sub-clause (1), the council may, with the approval of the Minister, enter into an arrangement with a university, corporation or other body to carry out any investigation, study or research that in the opinion of the council is necessary or desirable for the purposes of the Act. This provision will allow the council to make use of the skills of other bodies and organizati·ons which may not be otherwise available in the Government departments associated with the council, or it may assist the council to have a special study undertaken quickly when an appropriate department, although it has the skill, is unable to carry out the study because of pressure of other responsibilities.

In sub-clause (2), provIsIon is made for the council, with the consent of the Minister, to enter into agreements with the appropriate Ministers and public bodies in the neighbouring States of New South Wales and South Australia with regard to joint investigations which may with advantage extend across the borders into either of them.

Mr. GINIFER.-Or both of them.


Mr. BORTHWICK.-That is so. We are Australians rather than just Victorians, and man-made borders may not necessarily be appropriate borders when ecology is being studied. Subclause (3) provides for the council to confer and co-operate with all other departments and public bodies and for these departments and authorities to give all practicable assistance to the council in carrying out its functions. This will enable the council to work with various departments and authorities in obtaining and collating a considerable amount of information about public land which already exists.

Clause 7 provides for the council to prepare and submit to the Minister its proposals as to the location of the districts and areas which it considers should be investigated, the nature of the investigations which it proposes, and the order of priority in which they should be carried out. Although this clause provides for the Governor in Council to approve of such a pro .. gramme, it has a significance in that the proposals submitted to the Minister must be tabled in both houses of Parliament as provided under clause 11.

Clause 8 authorizes the Governor in Council to ask the council to carry out any special investigation and recommendation in relation to any particular district or area of Victoria which it believes is necessary or expedient to be carried out as soon as possible. For this reason, the Governor in Council is empowered to fix a time within which a recommendation shall be made, but it also provides for the Governor in Council to extend this time, if, after representations being made to him, he is of the opinion that the investigation could not be carried out in that time.

Clause 9 is perhaps the most interesting provision of the whole Bill for reasons which I shall explain. Firstly, it provides a safeguard that the council shall not make any recommendation in relation to any

district or area without adequate investigation. Secondly, it ensures that the public will be notified that an investigation of the particular district or area is about to be carried out. Thirdly, it requires the council to publish land m'ake available to. all interested parties the collected information which iit will have for its consideration. It also provides for notifying the public that this material is available and that any interested party may make submissions for the consideration of the council within a period of 60 days from the notice being given in the Government Gazette. Notices to advise the public with respect to these matters shall be published both in the Government Gazette and in appropriate newspapers.

The intention of this provision is to ensure that all those persons and bodies who have an interest in the future use of public land in an area can obtain and. study the basic in.; formation which the council itself will be studying and so make rational, constructive suggestions to the council for its consideration. By this device, the Government hopes to obviate, or at least reduce, the spate of uninformed assertions about the use of land, which finally lead to the possibility of decisions being made on emotional and political grounds rather than on the basis of the facts and the requirements of the community as collected by the council. The Government hopes that this provision will allow all interested people to participate in a rational and informed fashion in the process of considering how public land should be used.

Clause 10 provides that when the council has considered all the information available to it and submissions made to it and has decided on recommendations which it shall make to the Minister, it shall send a copy of the proposed recommendations to the ~puncil of any municipality in which any part of- the area or district to which the recommendation relates is situated, to any other public authority


or Government department that the council believes has an interest in the area of the proposed recommendation, and to all persons or bodies who made submissions, as provided under clause 9. The clause also allows for further submissions to be made within 60 days, or in the case of a Government department or public authority, such 'longer periods as may be agreed upon by the Minister and the Minister administering the relevant department or public authority. Any submissions received by the council in accordance with either clause' 9 or sub-clause (1) of this clause shall be forwarded with any recommendation made by the council to the Minister.

Sub-clause (3) of this clause requires the Minister to warn the Minister <;>f a department affected by the recommendations that fourteen days hence he proposes to ask the Governor in Council to adopt a recommendation and to give directions to the affected department,s or public authorities to carry out

'such recommendations effectively.

Clause 11 provides for advising Parliament with respect to two matters, namely, the councfl's proposed programme for investigations which it has submitted to the Minister for the approval of the Governor in Council and the recommendations it has made to the Minister with respect to the future use of land in any area which it has investigated. ,The council is required to lay this' information before both Houses of Parliament within fourteen days if Parliament is sitting, and if it is not sitting, within fourteen days after the meeting 'of Parliament.

Clause 12 requires the council to prepare an annual report, which shall be submitted to the Minister not later than the 30th September in each year and for the report to be laid before both Houses of Parliament within fourteen days of its making if Parliament is then sitting, or within fourteen days after the meeting of Parliament if it is not sitting.

Mr. BortJhwick.

Clause 13 contains some consequential amendments, mainly to the Soil Conservation and Land Utilization Act 1958. The amendments repeal those sections involving the constitution and functions of the Land Utilization ,Advisory Council which, by this measure, is to be replaced by the Land Conservation Council. It provides also for the repeal of section 151 B of the Land Act which refers to a function of the Land Utilization Advisory Council in relation to advising the Minister of Lands with respect to making Crown land available to private individuals for forest plantation purposes. It also provides for the amendment of the Town and Country Planning Act so that the chairman of the Soil Conservation Authority becomes a member of the State Planning Council in, lieu of the chairman of the Land Utilization Advisory Council, which will cease to exist.

In conclusion, I should like to say that the Government believes the provisions of this Bill will enable a much better approach to be adopted in deciding the future use of Crown lands. In the field of reserva,tions for public use, the Goven;tment has in the past made worthwhile progress. Ten years ago, there were only 12 national parks, whereas there are now 23 such'parks; there were no' wildlife reserves;' but there are now 32 reserves of this type; and 89 ,forest parks have been created. Although this progress has been hiade, the position will be enhanced by this Bill.

Provision is now made for the land to be studied and for interested people, if they so desire, to participate in the decision-making process by conSidering the available informatiofJ and ma~ing informed, constructive suggestions. The, Govemmen~ believes this is a correct procedure. The public land of Victoria belongs not to any particular Government, department or public authority, but to the people. The Government hoPes that in making provision for people to participate as I have stated, it has


not opened the way for simply destructive criticism of the recommendations which the council proposes to make. It also hopes that any comment or submission about the council's proposed recommendations will be confined to directing the council's attention to some aspect which may have been overlooked or to some new information which may have just become available, so that the council can have the opportunity of considering this before finally making its firm recommendation to the Minister.

The Government believes that if these procedures are followed, any recommendation coming to it will have been so well considered from all points of view that it will have no hesitation in adopting it. There is no humbug about this. The Government is perfectly sincere in its endeavour to take the consideration and recommendation about the future use of public land out of the realm of political and emotional argument and place it in the hands of a competent, technically-qualified body, which can act on behalf of the people.

It 'is my belief that this council will so set a pattern in its recommendations on the future use of public lands that :those who live 'in this vast continent in generations to come will have reason to thank the council for its vision, integrity and understanding of the needs of our people-now and into that limitless future that we all wish for our nation. I commend the Bill to the House.

Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park).-I move-

That the debate be now adjourned.

Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister for Conservation) .-1 suggest that the debate be adjourned for two weeks.

Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park).-I had hoped that the debate on this measure would not be resumed for a month, because with the amount of material contained in the Minister's speech and the research that the Opposition wishes to carry 'Out, a fortnight's adjournment would be insufficient. In view of other matters which may intervene, including the Budget, I should

Session 1970.--8

like the Minister to give an undertaking that the period adjournment of the debate will be extended and that the services of the officers in the various depa'rtments which are to be represented on the proposed statutory body will be made available to members of the Opposition for advice.

Mr. ROSS-EDWARDS (Leader of the Country Party) .-1 r·equest that the period of adjoU'rnm'ent be four w'eeks. This is an important Bi'll, which requires detailed research and adequa'te consideration.

Mr. MITCHELL (Benambra).-I support my Leader. The Government has made great play on this m'easure. It has asserted that it is epochmaking and that future generations will regard it as being a masterpiece of statesmanship. In view of that, perhaps the Minister is doing himself an injustice in saying that the measure can be considered in two weeks. The Bill provides for various departments to consult with other departments. What is to happen if one department objects? The Government talks about overriding parochial considerations, but does that mean overriding justice for ordinary citizens? This Bill is most important and, as the honorable member for Deer Park has said, if the members of this House are to make a contribution to the debate it is only fair that the Minister should adjourn its consideration for a month.

Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister for Conservation) .-1 assure the honorabl'e member f.or Deer Park that, so far as my officers are concerned, the'ir services will be made available to honorable members. In view of the repre;. sentations made during this discussion on the question of time, I agree to an adjournment of the debate for three weeks. If the members of other parties are in difficulties at the end of that period, the question will be further considered.

The motion for the adjournment of the debate was agreed to, and it was ordered that the debate be adjourned until Tuesday, October 6.

158 Adjournment, [ASSEMBLY.] Adjournment.

ADJOURNMENT. AIR POLLUTION IN KEON PARK.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-1 move-

T?at the House, at its rising, adjourn untIl tomorrow, at a quarter to Two o'clock.

The motion was agreed to. Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secre

tary) .-1 move-That the House do now adjourn. .Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir).-I

WIsh to draw the attention of the House to a matter affecting the administration of the Department of Health. It is a matter of concern to residents of Keon Park, which is in the northern sector of the Reservoir eleotorat'e. On 10th Ma~ch of this year, I referred in thp. House to a request which was signed by 97 people in that 'area that a'ction should be taken with regard to fumes emitted from the plant of Non-Ferral Pty. Ltd. Since that time, representations have been made to me concerning the condition of shrubs and other vegetation around homes in this area. Fumes from the plant are preventing various shrubs from forming buds or leaves. It has been found that tea-tree which is in a sheltered area will grow normally, but that shrubs which are not situated in sheltered areas die before flowering. Aluminium containers which are supposed to be impervious to corrosion, corrode within a short time as the result of the action of acid fumes emanating from the plant.

The Preston City Council has prosecuted this company under the nuis'ance section of the Health Act. On two occasions ,on which the company has been prosecuted in the local court, it has been convicted, but as it was prosecuted under this section of the Act the penalty is limited to approximately $40.. The Clean Air Section of the Department of Health has never launched a prosecution against the firm; It has left the municipality to carry the burden.

At present conditions are such that people are fearful for their health. They can see what happens to their

shrubs, trees and homes, and are continually complaining . of sore throats. When fumes enter their houses mothers have to move their children from their beds to a part of the house where the fumes are not as bad. Spouting and other metalware rots in a short time and paint work lasts for only six months. The people living near the plant are attempting to sell their houses and, naturally enough, they lose thousands of dollars on the sale. The homes concerned could be described as first class inside but their exterior has been ruined by the emissions which, I understand, are composed of spirits of salts. The fluxing process required for the reclaiming of scrap aluminium rel'eases sodium chloride and hydrogen chloride, ,and it may also release fluorides. I should like the D~partment of Health to investigate thIS matter. The Clean Air Section has no facilities for testing vegetation in this State. In New South Wales, I inspected laboratories of that State's Clean Air Section where tests are conducted within the complex of the section. The New South Wales authorities have been able to develop equipment for testing phenomena which are peculiar to the Australian environment. The ultimate concern of the people is that Comalco intends to increase aluminium can production considerably.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Order! The honorable member may speak on only one subject on the motion for the adjournment of a sitting and, on the subject that he has raised, he has 25 seconds in which to conclude his remarks.

Mr. SIMMONDS.-The cans will be reclaimed and the information available indicates that the Australian can production totals about 60.0. million a year. Comalco is seeking to penetrate this market. The scope of aluminium reclamation work at this plant, which is closely associated with Comalco, has virtually put the people in the community into a state of terror.

Questions· [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] on Notice. 159

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-From time to time, representations have been made by the honorable member for Reservoir to the Department of Health and to the Minister of Health on this matter. Recently, I made arrangements with the Chief Health Officer of the department to make a series of inspections of areas where these matters have been the subject of allegations and complaints. I invite the honorable member for Reservoir to accompany me on these inspections.


The House adjourned at 10.42 p.m.

1Jlegialatine i\.a.aembly. Wednesday, September 16, 1970.



The following answers to questions on notice were circulated:-

GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS AND INSTRUMENTALITIES.

EMPLOYMENT OF INDUSTRIAL AND MANAGEMENT CONSULTANTS.

Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown) asked the Premier-

1. Which State Government departments employ industrial and/or management consultants and what is the annual cost of each?

2. What are the names of the consultants concerned?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-The answers are-

1. During the financial year ended 30th June, 1970, industrial and/or management consultants' reviews were conducted in the following State departments at the branches shown:-Chief Secretary's Department-

At the Motor Registration Branch: Clerical work measurement and E.D.P. systems analysis studies.

Law Department-At the Courts Branch: An operations

research study. Public Works Department

A department-wide review. Treasury-,At the Government Printing Office, a

review was made of a range of activities of the office. At the Superannuation Board, a review relating to calculation of superannuation and conversion of board records to computer processing was conducted.

The payments made to the consultants for these reviews, for the financial year ended 30th June, 1970, were as follows:-

For the review at Motor Regis-tration Branch of the Chief Secretary's Department $22,525.00

For the review at the Courts Branch of the Law Depart-ment $30,000.00

For the review at the Public Works Department $48,592.84

For the review at the Govern-ment Printing Office, Trea-sury $38,222 .69

For the review at the Super-annuation Board, Treasury $4,944.00

Reviews by industrial management consultants are currently being undertaken at the Motor Registration Branch, Chief Secretary's Department, the Public Works Department and the Superannuation Board, Treasury.

2. W. D. Scott and Company Pty. Ltd. conducted the review at the Motor Registration Branch, Chief Secretary's Department.

P.A. Management Consultants Pty. Ltd. conducted the reviews at the Courts Branch of the Law Department, the Public Works Department and the Government Printing Office; and E. S. Knight and Company conducted the review at the Superannuation Board, Treasury.

SUGGESTED DEPARTMENT OF STATE DEVELOPMENT.


Whether he will give consideration to the formation of a self-contained Department of State Development, with a Minister solely responsible to Parliament for the conduct of this very important portfolio?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-The answer is-

Legislation to establish a Department of State Development is in course of preparation.

160 Questions [ASSEMBLY.] on Notice.

ELECTORAL. PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS: FAILURE

OF ELECTORS TO VOTE.


1. How many people failed to vote at the last Legislative Council and Legislative Assembly elections in Victoria?

2. Whether notices have been issued seeking the reasons for non-compliance with the The Constitution Act Amendment Act 1958; if so, how many have been returned with satisfactory explanations?

3. Whether any prosecutions have been launched for non-compliance; if not, whether it is the intention of the Government to do so?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-The answers are~

1. Ninety-nine thousand two hundred and thirty-three.

2. Approximately 41,000 notices have been sent by the Chief Electoral Officer to persons who failed to vote. Replies are currently being received and examined.

3. In accordance with the provisions of The Constitution Act Amendment Act, the Chief Electoral Officer is the authority who may impose penalties in respect of those

non-voters whose explanations are considered unsatisfactory. The Chief Electoral Officer has indicated that, as explanations are still under review, no penalties have yet been imposed.

YOUTH ORGANIZATIONS. FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE.

Mr. McLAREN (Bennettswood) asked the Chief Secretary-

1. How much money was made available to youth clubs for buildings and maintenance, respectively, last financial year, giving-

(a) the names of the youth clubs; and (b) the amounts granted in each case?

2. How much money was made available for equipment, leadership training, youth camps, and other matters last financial year?

3. How much will be available this financial year?

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secre-tary) .-The answers are-'

1. See Table" A ".

2. See Table" B".

3. This is a matter for announcement in the Budget.

TABLE cc A ".

Type of Organization.

1. Baptist ..

2. Boys Brigade 3. Girls Brigade .. 4. Church of Christ .. 5. Church of England

6. Congregational 7. Girl Guides

Name of Organization.

Baptist D.C.E. .. .. Box Hill Baptist Pioneer Club Boys Brigade H.Q. Girls Brigade H.Q. .. Church of Christ D.C.E. C. of E. D.C.E. Bendigo Boys Society H.Q. Melbourne C. of E. Boys Society St. Marks C. of E. Boys Society, Reservoir .. Melbourne Girls Friendly Society Melbourne Young Anglican Fellowship St. Albans C. of E. Development Committee Congregational Union Girl Guides H.Q. Benalla Girl Guides Beechworth " Bendigo " Blackburn " " .. Corangamite South Girl Guides

Maintenance.

500 50

200 750

1,000 500

25 500

1,000 400 100

3,000

50

75

75

Building.

200

2,000

200

100

Questions [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] on· Notice. 161

_._----

Type of Organization. Name of Organization. Maintenance. Building.

-----Corryong Girl Guides .. 200 Donald Girl Guides 100 Glen Waverley Girl Guides 100 500 Hazelwood Girl Guides .. 30 Highett Girl Guides 50 Horsham Girl Guides 60 Invergordon Girl Guides 500 Jordanville Girl Guides .. 150 Kerang Girl Guides 50 Maffra Girl Guides 46 Marnoo Girl Guides 20 Maryborough Girl Guides 60 Mornington Girl Guides 50 Mt. Waverley Girl Guides 75 2,000 North Ringwood Girl Guides 150 Nunawading Girl Guides 80 Ringwood Girl Guides 250 Seaford Girl Guides 100 Seymour Girl Guides 250 Simpson Girl Guides 40 Stawell Girl Guides 50 Tatura Girl Guides 800 Tawonga Girl Guides 35 50 Terang Girl Guides 20 Timboon Girl Guides 30 Watsonia Girl Guides 100 Wedderburn Girl Guides 75

8. Jewish .. Betar 50 Bnei Akiva 200 Hashomer Hatzair 100 Hagonim 500 Skiff 200 Yeshiva Youth .. 100

9. Lutheran Lutheran Youth of Victoria 200 10. Methodist Methodist D.C.E. 2,000

Box Hill Junior Methodist Boys .. 20 Camberwell Methodist Youth .. 50 Keon Park Meth. and Pres. Boys Club 100 Male Street Methodist Boys Club 60 Preston Boys Club 80

11. Miscellaneous Birralee Club 50 Brotherhood of St. Laurence 3,000 Crossroads Coffee Lounge 500 Junior Legacy, Melbourne 1,500 Melbourne Boys Club 500 Melbourne Newsboys Club 1,000 Signpost Youth Project .. 100 Youth Hostels Association 750

12. Opportunity Opportunity Youth Clubs H.Q. 10,000 Ascot Vale Opportunity Y.C. 1,000 Eugene Gorman Opportunity Y.C. 1,750 Kingsbury Opportunity Y.C. 500 Knox Youth Club 150 Ramsay Mailer Opportunity Y.C. 2,500 1,500

13. Presbyterian Thornbury' Opportunity Y.C. 2,000 Presbyterian D.C.E. 640 Laang-Ecklyn Presbyt. Y.c. 50 Sale Adventure Club 50

14. Roman Catholic .. Don Bosco Boys Club 50 2,000 Young Christain Students Movement 1,000 Young Catholic Students, Ballarat 100 Young Christain Workers-Boys 9,200

15. Salvation Army Young Christain Workers-Girls 7,000 .. Salvation Army H.Q. 1.300 Moreland Salvation Army 100 Northcote Salvation Army 50


Type of Organization. Name of Organization. Maintenance. Building.

Prahran Salvation Army 450 16. Scouts .. Brighton 500

21. Broadmeadows /2nd Dallas 800 1st Campbell's Creek 100 3rd Croydon 2,000 1 st Ferny Creek 400 Geelong Nauru Area 150 4th Keilor 1,000 3rd Kerang 500 1st Lake Bolac .. 400 3rd Malvern 2,000 1st North Moorabbin 500 1st Rainbow 1,000 10th Sandringham 50 2nd 17th South Moorabbin 500 3rd Springvale .. 500 2nd Templestowe 2,000 2nd 13rd Swan Hill 750 1st Yallourn 100 1st Yarrunga 1,000

19. Y.W.C.A. Y.W.C.A.-H.Q. 6,000 Y. W.C.A.-Bendigo 1,200 Y. W.C.A.-Dandenong 750 Y.W.C.A.-East Bentleigh 500

i Y.W.C.A.-Geelong 1,280 Y.W.C.A.-Glenroy 1,500 Y.W.C.A.-Newborough 500 Y.W.C.A.-Melbourne 2,000 Y.W.C.A.-Shepparton .. 500

17. V.A.Y.C. Meeniyan Community Youth Club 50 Mordialloc Community Youth Club 500 Mornington Community Youth Club 200 Mt. Waverley Community Youth Club 150 Nathalia Community Youth Club 100 Noble Park C;:ommunity Youth Club 150 Norlane-Nth. Shore Community Youth Club 150 Oakleigh Swimming Pool Youth Club 100 Ocean Grove C.Y.C. 200 Poolaijelo c.Y.C. 50 Preston c.Y.C. 200 Ringwood c.Y.C. 200 Rushworth R.S.L. and C.Y.C. 25 Sale c.Y.C. 100 Sebastopol c.Y.C. 50

, Springvale c.Y.c. 100 St. Albans c.y.c. 200 St. Kilda C.Y.C. 50 Sunbury c.Y.C 50 Tongala C.Y.c. 75 Trafalgar c.Y.C. 25 Try Youth Club 6,000 Vermont Community Youth Club 50 Warragul Community Youth Club 100 Wendouree Community Youth Club 100 Westbreen-Oak Park Community Youth Club 150 Yallourn North Community Youth Club .. 350 Winchelsea Community Youth Club 100 West Essendon Community Youth Club 100 Williamstown Community Youth Club 200

17. V.A.Y.C. Victorian Association of Youth Clubs 19,000 AI~ollo Bay Youth Club 100 Avondale Heights Youth Club 400 Ballarat Youth Council .. 720 Bayswater Community Youth Club 180 Beaufort Community Youth Club 80

Questions

Type of Organization.

18. Y.M.C.A.

[16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.J on Notice. 163

Name of Organi~ation. Maintenance. Building.

Bell Park Community Youth Club 200 Belmont Community Youth Club 100 Bentleigh-McKinnon Community Youth Club 250 Boronia Community Youth Club 400 Bright and Dist. Community Youth Club 25 Brunswick and Coburg Community Youth 1,350

Club Carlisle River Community Youth Club 80 Chelsea Heights Community Youth Club . . 80 Cheltenham Community Youth Club 100 City of Oakleigh Community Youth Club 100 Clayton Community Youth Centre 150 Clunes Community Youth Club.. 100 Colac Community Youth Club .. 150 Comer Inlet Community Youth Club 50 Essendon Toc H Youth Centre .. 90 Doncaster and District C.Y.C. . . 100 Fitzroy Community Youth Centre 50 Glenroy Community Youth Club 100 Harston Community Youth Club 150 Heathmont Community Youth Club 100 Highett Community Youth Club 200 Kaniva Community Youth Club.. 100 Karramomus Community Youth Club 50 Keilor Community Youth Club .. 140 Kilsyth Community Youth Club . . 100 Kingston Community Youth Club 45 Kyneton Community Youth Club 75 Lalor-Thomastown Community Youth Club 250 Leongatha Community Youth Club 200 Little River Community Youth Club 100 Maryborough Community Youth Club 100

Y.M.C.A. H.Q. Melbourne

"

"

Regional Council Administrative Committee Alfredton Ararat Ballarat Balwyn Bendigo Brighton Burwood Eaglehawk Echuca Emerald HiIl Essendon Geelong H.Q. Geelong Central Geelong West Kangaroo Flat Kingsville West Footscray Morwell H.Q. Moe Montague Newborough .. Morwell Port Melbourne Shire of Corio Spotswood South Barwon Churchill Warrnambool Wodonga

1,200 3,000 1,750

200 900

1,000 350

1,280 600 100 100 100 100 300

1,350 400 150 100 900

1,800 1,250

400 800 400 700 700 250 356 150 150

1,050 500


TABLE" B". DISTRIBUTION OF GRANTS IN 1969-70.

PAID.

- Equipment. Maintenance. I Leadership. Camp. Building. Special. Total Paid.

1. Baptist .. . . 658 550

2. Boys' Brigade .. 525 200

3. Girls' Brigade .. 200 750

4. Church of Christ .. 390 1,000

5. Church of England 1,450 2,625

6. Congregational .. 300 3,000

7. Girl Guides .. .. 1,485

8. Jewish .. .. 1,200 1,150

9. Lutheran .. .. 200

10. Methodist .. 670 2,310

11. Miscellaneous .. 425 7,400

12. Opportunity .. 1,350 17,900

13. Presbyterian .. 1,050 740

14. Roman Catholic .. 6,800 17,350

15. Salvation Army .. 2,300 1,900

16. Scouts .. .. 6,585 200

17. V.A.Y.C. .. 6,090 34,970

18. Y.M.C.A. .. 4,340 22,350

19. Y.W.C.A. .. 870 14,200

20. Late .. .. .. .. Total .. 35,203 130,280

SOCIAL WELFARE BRANCH. RESEARCH AND STATISTICS DIVISION:

INDEX SYSTEM.

Mr. BORNSTEIN (Brunswick East) asked the Chief Secretary-

Whether the Research and Statistics Division of the Social Welfare Branch plans to have a central index of all persons in contact with and in the care of the branch; if so, when it will be established and for what purposes?


No decision to establish a central index has yet been taken.

500

520

100

2,500

3,005

1,250

7,250

550

200

6,010

11,030

500

4,430

14,200

110

8,000

14,841

12,700

9,925

.. 97,621

1,200 .. . . 2,908

.. . . .. 1,245

.. .. " 1,050

200 .. " 4,090

1,700 200 .. 8,980

410 .. . . 4,960

750 7,030 2,000 18,515

.. . . .. 2,900

.. .. " 400

1,250 .. " 10,240

300 .. 4,000 23,155

.. 1,500 " 21,250

2,750 .. " 8,970

1,000 2,000 .. 41,350

2,000 .. 6,310

400 14,050 " 29,235

2,000 350 .. 58,251

1,100 .. . . 40,490

675 .. .. 25,670

.. .. .. . . 15,735 25,130 6,000 309,969

FISHERIES AND WILDLIFE BRANCH.

LICENCES FOR FISHERMEN IN PORT PHILLIP BAY.

Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown) asked the Chief Secretary-

1. Whether it has become necessary to reduce the number of licences issued to professional long-line fishermen in Port Phillip Bay; if so, when this reduction came into effect, how many fishermen were previously licensed and how many are now proposed to be licensed?

2. In reducing the number what tests are applied or what qualifications are required to remain licensed?

Questions [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] on N~tice. 165

3. Whether it is proposed to bring in under the restricted number any new fishermen who were not previously licensed; if 50, why?

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-The answers are-

1. There has never been a specific longline licence for Port Phillip Bay. Any holder of a master fisherman's licence could use a long line with up to 500 hooks or 800 for double handed crews, from 1st April to 30th September each year. The use of such gear was completely prohibited from 1st October to 31st March. Regulations which came into force on 24th March, 1970, prohibited the taking of fish by means of a long line in Port Phillip Bay during the whole of each year except by a master fisherman whose boat registration certificate is endorsed as being valid for use in fishing by long line in Port Phillip Bay. The purpose of this endorsement was to freeze the number of long-line fishermen operating in Port Phillip Bay at the 1968-69 level. It is anticipated that endorsement of approximately 50 boat registration certificates will be approved.

2. The criterion used in determining whether a boat registration certificate is so endorsed is that the Director of Fisheries and Wildlife is satisfied that the licensee lawfully used long lines during the 1968-69 period.

3. No.

POLICE DEPARTMENT. ALTONA POLICE STATION: STAFFING.


1. How many policemen are stationed at the Altona police station and what are their respective ranks?

2. Whether the number has increased or diminished over the past few years and whether the number now quoted is fairly stable over the year?

3. Whether the station is manned 24 hours a day; if not-( a) whether it will be so manned in the near future; and (b) what hours the station is manned at present?

4. What procedures are made known to people wanting police assistance when the station is closed?


1. Rank. Number. Sergeant 1 Senior constable .. 1 First constable and constable • 5

7

• Strength increased by one on the 10th September, 1970, but vacancy created has not yet been filled.

2. The station was one first constable or constable over strength from August, 1968, until September, 1969. This was brought about by the appointment of a member to fill a vacancy consequent upon a member stationed at Altona submitting his resignation. However, the member subsequently withdrew his resignation but the strength was not adjusted until a member transferred from Altona in September, 1969.

3. No. (a) It is not proposed that Altona will

operate on a 24-hour basis. (b) 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. 4. A notice with appropriate telephone

numbers is posted at the station advising enquirers to contact either the Footscray police or 0.24.

POLICE CONTINGENT IN CYPRUS.


1. How many members of the Victoria Police Force are stationed in Cyprus and what are their respective ranks?

2. What is the cost of this contingent to Victoria for salaries, allowances, superannuation, &c., and whether any of the cost is recoverable, and, if 50, from where?

3. How long it is expected the contingent will remain in Cyprus and whether it is the intention of the Government to supply reinforcements from time to time?

4. Whether he will ascertain and inform the House what other countries and other Sta~es of Australia are supplying trained polIcemen for Cyprus and in what approximate proportion to Victoria?


1. Rank. Inspector Sergeant First constable

2. Nil.

Number. 1 1 8

Total 10

3. The present contingent is due to be replaced in May, 1971. The supply of further contingents will depend upon the

166 Questions [ASSEMBLY. ] on Notice.

duration' of the United Nations mandate in Cyprus, but it is' not possible to foresee when this will cease.

4. Austria, Denmark and Sweden. Australia's contribution as a whole is 50 police supplied as follows:-

New South Wales 14 Victoria 10 Queensland 6 South Australia 6 Western Australia 4 Tasmania .. .. .. 4 Commonwealth Police Force .. 4 Northern Territory .. 1 Australian Capital Territory 1

Total 50

Details of the strength of the police contingents from Austria, Denmark and Sweden are not readily available but inquiries will be made and the information conveyed to the honorable member ,in due course.

MEMBERS OF FORCE ON NATIONAL SERVICE.


1. How many members of the Victoria Police Force have served as national servicemen and how many of these have returned to the force after military discharge?

2. How many members are serving at the present time?

3. Whether, because of the acute shortage of trained policemen in Victoria, any efforts have been made to avert the recruitment of the men for national service or to secure the release of those at present in service?

Persons arrested Persons summoned Charges preferred Convictions Char.ges withdrawn Charges dismissed Charges pending Total cases cleared up Cases result of observation Cases result of calls Accidents attended Stolen cars recovered Cars checked Suspects questioned

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secre-tary) .-The answers are-

1. 71 and 69, respectively. 2. 47. 3. Yes, on six occasions at Ministerial

level. Both the Prime Minister and the Minister for Labour and National Service advised that when the Commonwealth Cabinet was considering the character of the national service scheme, it decided that there should be no exemption from service on occupational grounds.

CRIME CAR SQUADS: CRIMES

DETECTED: MANNING.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds) asked the Chief Secretary-

1. What statistics are available regarding the efficiency in detecting crime of the newly-created Crime Squad?

2. Whether each of the Crime Squad headquarters is manned on a 24-hour basis; if so, whether the Bourke District headquarters roster is effective?

3. What changes are being considered to improve' the squad?


1. A comparison of the operations of the Wireless Patrol with the Crime Car Squads during the first eight months of 1970 is as follows:-

Wireless Patrol

. (Average. monthly figures for period January to April, 1970, inclusive).

177·25 128 401 343·25

57·75 401 232 169

2·25 19·5

1,326 1,350' 5

Crime Car Squads.

(Average monthly figures for period May to August, 1970, inclusive).

347 129·75 660 327 14·75 8·75

309·5 660 414·25 245·75

3·5 35

2,020'5 1,978'25


2. Yes. The Bourke District roster is considered to be effective.

3. The operations of the Crime Car Squads are constantly under review with a view to improving their efficiency. Also, the officers in charge of the respective squads are instructed to bring under notice and comment on any suggestions for keeping the squads in a high state of efficiency.

WORKERS COMPENSATION BOARDS.

MEMBERS: CLAIMS.

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked the Chief Secretary-

1. What is the composition of each of the Workers Compensation Boards?

2. What was the number of claims heard by each board in each of the past five years?

3. What is the number of cases in which the applicant lost in respect of each of the boards?


1. Each board consists of one judicial member and two lay members. The present membership of each board is-

His Honour Judge C. W. Harris, Mr. J. P. Dynon and Mr. J. W. Wood.

His Honour Judge D. W. Corson, Mr. W. Joyce and Mr. D. P. Burgess.

2 and 3. No records are kept of the breakup of claims between the two boards, and consequently, I regret that this information is not available.

EDUCATION DEPARTMENT. PRIMARY SCHOOL VACANCIES IN

METROPOLITAN DIVISION.

Mr. KIRKWOOD (Preston) asked the Minister of Education-

1. What is the number of advertised vacancies unfilled in each metropolitan division of the Primary School Service?

2. Whether teachers have indicated a preference for appointment to certain areas; if so-(a) which areas; and (b) what plans the Education Department has to render those areas not favoured more attractive to teachers?


1. Advertised vacancies unfilled in each metropolitan division of the Primary Schools Division are-northern suburbs, 88; southern suburbs, 42; eastern suburbs, 22; western suburbs, 108.

2. (a) Teachers have indicated preferences as follows:-eastern suburbs, 1, southern suburbs, 2; northern suburbs, 3; western suburbs, 4.

(b) This matter is currently under investigation.

PRIMARY SCHOOL FOR CARLTON.

Mr. BORNSTEIN (Brunswick East) asked the Minister of Education-

Whether it is the intention of the Education Department to erect a primary school on the site bounded by Neill, Rathdowne, Palmers ton and Drummond streets, Carlton; if so, when it is expected that work on this project will begin?


Yes. It is not possible at this time to indicate when building work will begin.

SCHOOLS IN BRUNSWICK EAST ELECTORATE: SITES: REBUILDING.

Mr. BORNSTEIN (Brunswick East) asked the Minister of Education-

1. How much land is occupied by each of the following schools :-Princes Hill High; Moreland High; Fitzroy High; Brunswick High; Brunswick Girls High; Spensley-street Primary (Clifton Hill); Fitzroy North Primary; Princes Hill Primary; Moreland Primary; Brunswick East Primary; Brunswick Primary; Brunswick South Primary; Carlton North Primary; and Merri Primary?

2. What alterations or extensions are planned to the size of these sites?

3. Which of the above-mentioned schools -(a) are currently being rebuilt; or (b) it is intended to rebuild?

4. What are the estimated times for the completion of schools which are being rebuilt and for the commencement and completion of those to be rebuilt?


1. H.S. Princes Hill, 1 acre 1 rood 20 perches; H.S. Moreland, 2 acres 0 roods 30 perches; H.S. Fitzroy, 2 acres 3 roods 35 perches; H.S. Brunswick, 4 acres 0 roods 32 perches; G.H.S. Brunswick, 1 acre 0 roods 33 perches; 3146 Clifton Hill, 1 acre 2 roods 18 perches; 1490 North Fitzroy, 2 acres 0 roods 23.5 perches; 2955 Princes Hill, 4 acres 2 roods 15.6 perches; 2837 Moreland, 1 acre 2 roods 18 perches; 3179 Brunswick East, 2 acres 3 roods 17 perches; 1213 Brunswick, 1 acre 3 roods 20 perches; 2743 Brunswick South, 2 acres 2 roods 0 perches; 1252 Carlton North, 2 acres 0 roods 3 perches; 3110 Merri, 1 acre 3 roods 13 perches.

2. With the exception of 2955 Princes Hill, 3179 Brunswick East, 2743 Brunswick and 1252 Carlton North, the department is in the process of purchasing· or reserving properties for extension to these school sites.

168 Questions [ASSEMBLY. J on Notice.

3. (a) None of the schools named are being currently rebuilt.

(b) A new building will be erected at Frinces Hill High School as a result of the fire earlier this year and a new school will be provided in place of the Spensley Street Primary School (Clifton Hill) destroyed by fire.

Work covering additions and extensive remodelling will commence shortly at Moreland Primary School. Tenders will probably be invited early in 1971 for the first stage of rebuilding at Fitzroy North Primary School. No decisions on rebuilding have yet been made in respect of the other schools.

4. The target date for the completion of the Princes Hill High School building is April, 1972. The contract for. Moreland Primary School has a completIon clause of 48 weeks. It is not possible at this time to provide estimated times for the commencement and completion of schools to be rebuilt.

TEACHERS COLLEGE FOR VVESTERN SUBURBS.

Mr. FLOYD (VVilliamstown) asked the Minister of Education-

Whether he is aware of the wide publicity given to promises by Liberal candidates for western metropolitan electorates and provinces in the recent State election,s that a Liberal Government would treat a teachers college in the western area as an urgent priority; if so, whether such assurances were given with the Minister's approval and in that event, whether these promises are' still valid and when can it be expected a start will be made on the establishment of the college?


No However, a site has been acquired in St. Albans for this purpose. The building of a new college on this site will be given careful consideration in the department's planning but its immediate need is to improve and enlarge our existing colleges. The current programme to achieve the latter objective is already making heavy demands on the funds available.

PRESTON PRIMARY SCHOOL: MAINTENANCE.

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked the Minister of Education-

If he will lay on the table of the Library the file relating to repairs, renovations and maintenance at Preston Primary School, No. 1494?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The answer is, "Yes".

CULLODEN STREET, WEST BRUNSWICK, PRIMARY SCHOOL: PORTABLE BUILDINGS.

Mr. TURNBULL (Brunswick West) asked the Minister of Education-

Whether any portable buildings have been placed in the sc~ool site at Culloden ~tr~t Primary School; If so, what type of bUlldmg and for what purpose such buildings are to be used?


Yes. Standard portable class-rooms and toilet blocks. Children from the Moreland Primary School will use the portable buildings while additions and extensive remodelling are proceeding at Moreland.

DALY STREET, VVEST BRUNSWICK, PRIMARY SCHOOL: RECOMMENDATIONS OF METROPOLITAN FIRE BRIGADES BOARD.


Whether the Metropolitan Fire Brigades Board made any inspection and report relating to the primary school at Daly Street, West Brunswick; if so-(~) what was the nature of the recommendatIon co~tained in such report; and (b) whether It is the intention of the Education Department to carry out such recommendation, and, in that event, what fire escapes are to be erected from the second floor of such school?


Yes. (a) (i) That alternative m.ea!1s of escape

be provided to top floor of buIldmg. (ii) That all solid fuel heaters be replaced

with "safer" electric strip heaters 7 feet above floor level.

(b) The Education Department has this question under consideration at the present time.

KEILOR HEIGHTS HIGH SCHOOL: PUPILS: TEACHERS: ACCOMMODATION.


1. How many pupils and teachers, respectively, attended the Keilor Heights High School in 1969, how many now attend the school, and how many are expected to attend in 1971?

2. What measures are proposed to provide adequate and permanent class-room accommodation at the school for next year?


3. What maximum number of pupils it is intended to teach at the school?


1. 1969 1970 1971 ( an ticipa ted)

Pupils 198 383 630 Teachers 10 17.7 31

2. The first section of the permanent building programme has recently been completed and occupied. It will be necessary to retain some of the portable class-rooms for 1971.

3. 1,000.

PRIMARY TEACHERS ON PART-TIME STUDY LEAVE.


How many primary teachers on part-time study leave are employed in schools in each of the following divisions :-Western-Headquarters-S.S. 2832 Yarraville, NorthernHeadquarters-S.S. 484 Coburg, EasternHeadquarters - S.S. 1075 Kew, SouthEastern - Headquarters - S.S. 583 South Yarra, and Southern-Headquarters-S.S. 773 Caulfield?


Primary teachers on part-time study leave are employed in schools as follows:-

Western Division Northern Division Eastern Division South-Eastern Division Southern Division

HOUSING COMMISSION.

17 27 27 72 42

CARLTON FLATS: ACCOMMODATION FOR SERVICE PERSONNEL.

Mr. BORNSTEIN (Brunswick East) asked the Minister of Housing-

1. How many Housing Commission flats are situated on the block bounded by Lygon, Princes, Rathdowne and Neill streets, Carlton?

2. How many of these flats are occupied by members of the defence forces and their families?

3. How many of 1,459 houses and 1,191 flats constructed by the Housing Commission in the twelve months to 30th June, 1970, were allocated to service personnel?

4. Whether servicemen seeking to rent commi'ssion houses or flats, or to purchase a commission house, are subject to the same conditions of eligibility as other applicants?

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Hous-ing) .-The answers are-

1. 848. 2. 75. 3. 138. 4. Servicemen, who apply directly to the

Housing Commission for housing, either for rental or purchase, are required to meet the normal terms of eligibility.

VICTORIAN CIVIL AMBULANCE SERVICE.

CITY AND METROPOLITAN DEPOTS: VEHICLES: GOVERNMENT GRANT.

Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown) asked the Minister of Health-

1. How many Victorian Civil Ambulance Service depots, with fUll-time attendance, are stationed in the city and the metropolitan area, respectively?

2. Where these are located and how many vehicles are permanently stationed at each depot?

3. Whether it is proposed to establish additional depots; if so, in what municipalities?

4. What is the amount of annual grant made by the Government to the Victorian Civil Ambulance Service and the amount of any other subsidies?

5. Whether any municipalities in the metropolitan area conduct their own ambulance services; if so, whether these are subject to Government subsidy?


1. One depot in the city central area, -ten depots in the suburbs.

2. City-64 La Trobe Street Footscray Broadmeadows Preston " Fairfield , Camberwell Ringwood Fern Tree Gully Moorabbin Waverley Prahran "

Vehicles. 32

4 7 7 4 4 5 3

10 5 3

84

3. The Hospitals and Charities Commission has under consideration a programme submitted by the Victorian Civil Ambulance Service for additional depots at Caulfield, Eltham, Braybrook and Altona.

4. Grants for financial year 1969-70-Maintenance $273,900. Capital $114,553.

5. No ambulance services are conducted by municipalities.


MEDICAL PRACTITIONERS. . SHORTAGE IN COUNTRY TOWNS.

Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown) asked the Minister of Health-

1. Which country towns in Victoria which have previously had a medical officer are now without otle?

2. Whether approaches have been made to the Department of Health for assistance; if so, what steps are being taken to fill the vacancies?


1 and 2. While the Department of Health does not have a complete record of the names of all country towns which at one time had a resident legally qualified medical practitioner but now are without one, a number of towns over a period of years have approached the department for assistance in obtaining the services of a resident medical practitioner, many of them on more than one occasion. These include Merino, Quambatook, Murchison, Lang Lang, Nyah West, BalIan, Beulah, Yackandandah, Murrayville, Penshurst, Minyip, Goroke, Woodend and Jeparit.

Of these, the latter eight towns are without medical practitioners at present.

Associations of local residents are encouraged to advertise throughout Australia and overseas and to provide adequate accommodation and surgery facilities, often on a low rental. The Department of Health also advertises through the Agent-General in London and, in certain cases, it has agreed to pay a medical practitioner's costs of transportation from overseas and guarantee him an income of at least $8,000 a year on condition that he enters into a bond to remain for a period of at least two years. He may also be paid a bonus of $2,000 if he remains for a further period of twelve months after the completion of the two-year period.

The Hospitals and Charities Commission has been au thorized to make similar arrangements through the smaller country hospitals to attract medical officers for work partly in the hospital itself and partly as a local resident medical practitioner.

MELBOURNE AND METROPOLITAN TRAMWAYS BOARD.

REAR SAFETY LIGHTS FOR TRAMS.

Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown) asked the Minister of Transport-

1. How many trams have been fitted with rear safety lights?

2. Whether it is proposed to equip all trams with such lights; if not, why?

3. What were the original objections to the fitting of these lights and whether those objections have now been overcome?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Trans-port) .-The answers are-

1. Thirteen to date. 2. Yes. 3. The original objections were based on

the technical problems associated with the necessary use of high voltage direct current on equipment to provide brake-actuated stop lights. These problems have not been solved. The additional front and rear lights now being fitted are, in fact, a compromise solution.

RAILWAY DEPARTMENT. HEYWOOD LEVEL CROSSING:

ACCIDENTS: WARNING LIGHTS.

Mr. W. J. LEWIS (Portland) asked the Minister of Transport-

1. How many accidents have occurred in each of the past three years at the road railway crossing at Heywood on the main Hamilton-Portland railway line?

2. What costs were incurred by the Railway Department as a result of the recent collision between a semi-trailer and a train at this crossing?

3. When warning lights will be installed at this crossing?

4. In view of recent accidents whether he will give urgent attention to improving safety measures at this crossing?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport) .-The answers are-

1. Two. On 11 th November, 1968, and 27th August, 1970.

2. These costs are not yet available. 3 and 4. It is expected that flashing lights

will be installed at the crossing in November this year.

DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE. SELECTION OF STUDENTS FOR GLEN

ORMISTON AGRICUL TURAL COLLEGE.

Mr. ROSS-EDWARDS (Leader of the Country Party) asked the Minister of Lands, for the Minister of Agriculture-

What is the criteria by which students will be selected to attend Glenormiston Agricultural College?

Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of Lands) .-The answer supplied by the Minister of Agriculture is-

Selection of young men and women for entrance to Glenormiston Agricultural College will be based on applicants meeting the following conditions:-

1. Candidates must have-(a) reached the age of seventeen years

not later :than the first day of March in the year of admission;


(b) passed in at least six subjects, including English, science and mathematics, at form IV. level of a secondary or technical school; and

(c) completed not less than two years' satisfactory practical farm experience. At least one of the two years must be full-time after passing the form IV. examinations.

. 2. Candidates must submit upon request-

(a) a report and recommendation from the farmer on whose property the practical farm experience was gained;

(b) a report from the principal of the last school attended; and

(c) a medical report.

3. Final selection of candidates will follow personal interview.

MARKETING OF PRIMARY PRODUCTS ACT.

CONSUMERS COMMITTEE: MEMBERS: FUNCTIONS.

Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown) asked the Minister of Lands, for the Minister of Agriculture-

1. Whether the Minister has appointed a Consumers Committee under the Marketing of Primary Products Act 1958; if so, who are the members of the committee and what are their respective qualifications?

2. What particular items under the Act will be considered by the committee and what fees and allowances will be paid to members?

Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of Lands) .-The Minister of Agriculture has furnished the following answers:-

1. Yes, a Consumers Committee consisting of the following members was appointed for a term of two years from the 20th August, 1970:-

Mrs. H. Imray ( chairman) . Mrs. B. Gillam-Hunt. Mrs. D. G. Moss. Mrs. D. C. Condon. Mrs. M. Barry. Mrs. F. L. Parnaby.

With the exception of Mrs. Parnaby, the above persons were all members of· the previous committee whose term of office expired on the 19th August, 1970.

Since the committee was first established in 1947, the appointments have been made from nominations submitted by housewives' organizations and the various political parties. The nominations and appointments have traditionally been women.

In accordance with the Marketing of Primary Products Act, the members of the committee are appointed to represent the interests of the consumers of all of the commodities the marketing of which is for the time being regulated by marketing boards under the Act. I am satisfied that the present members can adequately represent the interests of the particular con-sumers .

2. Under the Act, the committee is charged with the duty of considering and reporting to the Minister on-

(a) the effect of the operations of any marketing board upon the supply and distribution of any commodity;

(b) the price or prices at which any commodity is sold to consumers; and .

(c) any bona fide complaints made to . the Minister as to the effect of the

operations of any marketing board on consumers of any commodity the marketing of which is for the time being regulated by such board.

Currently, marketing boards under the Act are functioning in relation to the following commodities :-Chicory, eggs and egg pulp, onions and tobacco leaf.

The fees and allowances payable to members of the committee are-

Attendance fee: Chairman-$6 per meeting.

Other members-$4 per meeting.

Travelling allowance: $1 per meeting.

BREAD INDUSTRY. DELIVERIES OVER 30~MILE LIMIT:

INFRINGEMENTS.

Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown) asked the Minister of Labour and Industry-

1. How many complaints have been lodged with the Department of Labour and Industry alleging infringements of subs'ection (4) of section 104 of the Labour and Industry Act 1958 by deliveries of bread to householders over the 30-mile restriction?

2. How many complaints were-(a) found to have substance; and (b) found to be without substance and/or frivolous?

3. What action has been taken in the cases of substance?

Mr. RAFFERTY . (Minister of Labour and Industry).-The answer is-

The manner in which records of the department are kept does not enable me to state how many complaints have been lodged, in one. way or another, since the present section 104 was introduced in 167. However, I can say that all complaints


which on their face have appeared to require investigation have in fact been investigated and, wherever there was evidence of an apparent breach of the law sufficient to justify the institution of proceedings, such proceedings were taken. During 1968, there were seven prosecutions; during 1969, there were thirteen; and so far during 1970, there has been one.

APPRENTICESHIP COMMISSION. SUPERVISION OF ApPRENTICES.

Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) asked the Minister of Labour and Industry-

1. How many apprentices ar~ supervised by each supervisor? .•

2. How this ratio compares with the other States of Australia and other countries?

3. With the shortening of apprenticeship terms from 1st October, 1970, what steps will be taken to ensure closer supeIVision of trade courses to ensure apprentices receive thorough training?

Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of Labour and Industry).-The answers are-

1. At the 30th June this year, there were 29,007 apprentices and probationers in training. The field staff of the Apprenticeship Commission at that time was and at present comprises one senior supervisor, three asSistant senior supervisors and 23 other supervisors.

2. The ratio of supervisors to apprentices in Victoria is higher than in any other State in Australia. The situation in other countries is not known.

3. This matter is being kept under review. Within the limits of the resources available, the best possible steps will be taken to ensure adequate supervision of apprenticeship tra1ining in ,the future as in the past.

POLLUTION. . PROSECUTIONS FOR OIL POLLUTION

FROM SHIPS.

Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown) asked the Minister of Labour and Industry, for the Mi.nister of Public Works-

1. Which shipping companies, their agents, or ships' masters, respectively, have been prosecuted over the past twelve months for discharging oil or other pollutants into the Yarra River, Hobson's Bay, Port Phillip Bay, and Westernport Bay?

2. How many of the prosecutions were successful, and what was the total of fines received?

Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of Labour and Industry) .-The answers supplied by the Minister of Public Works are-

1. The following masters have been prosecuted for discharging oil into the Yarra River, Hobson's Bay, Port Phillip Bay and Westernport Bay:-

E. J. Cuttlewourth;· G. Boogerd; H. Johansen; E. Killman; D. Kaliviotis; H. Persson; A. 'Murdoch; D. J. Ball; G. Xipolitos; A. Jensen; I. Ikiadis; T. R. Nicholson; D. Kaliviatis; N. Karanicoloau; B. Walker; R. Stick; P. Chilman; D. Clark; C. Beck; Meimarkis.

The last five were in Corio Bay, which is sometimes considered as part of Port Phillip Bay. No shipping companies or other agents have been prosecuted for discharging oil or other pollutants into these waters and no masters have been prosecuted for discharging other pollutants.

2. Nineteen of these, including the five in Corio Bay, were successful. The total of fines received was $5,300, including $750 from the Corio Bay prosecutions.

STATE RIVERS AND WATER SUPPLY COMMISSION.

GAYNOR'S SWAMP, COROP.

Mr. ROSS-EDWARDS (Leader of the Country Party) asked the Minister of Water Supply-

Whether it is the intention of the State Rivers and Water Supply Commission to purchase Gaynor's swamp, Corop?

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister of Water Supply).-The answer is-

The area referred to as Gaynor's swamp is freehold property which the State Rivers and Water Supply Commission might wish to acquire if the proposals to incorporate Lake Cooper into the Corop Lakes scheme proceed. However, the need for this has not yet been demonstrated and the commission is, therefore, not in a position to indicate when or if Gaynor's swamp will be acquired.


POLICE SALARIES. Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-

Will the Chief Secretary consider the challenge to the Government by the Chief Commissioner of Police to support him in regard to pay increases for members of the Victoria Police Force?

Questions [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] without Notice. 173

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-1 should have thought that the Deputy Leader of the Opposition would be aware that the question of pay increases is a matter for an independent tribunal comprising a· County Court judge, who is the chairman, a representative of the Police Force elected by the Police Association, and a former superintendent of police. As the honorable member knows, the Government has no power to interfere in the determinations of tribunals.

Today, I made a statement in which I said that the Government agrees with the Chief Commissioner that assistance is needed in regard to communications, planning for a new police academy, and the provision of a computer. A site for a new academy is at present being chosen. Personnel are being trained to operate a computer and I hope that, despite the difficulties of the Treasurer, some of these matters may be provided for in the forthcoming Budget.

ELECTRICITY TARIFFS. Mr. CURNOW (Kara Kara).

I ask the Minister for Fuel and Power whether it is likely that the State Electricity Commission will reduce its tariffs to farmers and, if it is considering this matter, will it also consider reducing its tariffs for pensioners and decentralized industries.

Mr. BALFOUR (Mip,ister for Fuel and Power) .-Over the past few weeks, I have received many letters from members of this House on behalf of various municipalities asking that the general farm rates be reduced. Domestic tariffs for farms are the same as all other domestic rates within Victoria. The general farm tariff is a lower rate than the normal commercial or industrial rates. In fact, the State Electricity Commission estimates that the rural community is being subsidized by an amount of $8 million per annum. I do not see any possibility of a reduction in those tariffs at present.

MENTALLY RETARDED CHILDREN. Mr. BORNSTEIN (Brunswick

East) .-1 ask the Minister of Health: In view of the assurance given by his predecessor in December of last year that a site at Royal Park would be made available for the RichmondHawthorn Day Training Centre for Mentally Retarded Children, has the land now been made available; if not, can the Minister give an assurance that he will look urgently into this matter, because the present centre is situated in a condemned building with appallingly primitive facilities?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-The acquisition of land is not a simple matter and I cannot say at the moment that the land has been acquired. As to the second part of the question, I am looking at the matter and will inform the local member as soon as it has been resolved.

UNIFORM FIREARMS CONTROL. Mr. MUTTON (Coburg).-Will the

Chief Secretary inform me whether he attended a recent interstate conference held to discuss the possibility of uniform firearms control; if so, what progress resulted from that conference?

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-1 attended a conference on this matter. Considerable progress was made in relation to uniformity, and working committees were appointed to deal with various matters on which uniformity appears to be likely and desirable. I did not get the support I hoped for in relation to a proposal I submitted concerning shooters' licences. I am now considering whether Victoria should go it alone.

GREENSBOROUGH SCHOOLS. Mr. FELL (Greensborough).-In

view of the recent announcement in the local press that a special school will be established at Grimshaw Street, Watsonia, in the Greensborough electorate, will the Minister of Education inform me whether it is


the intention of the Minister and the Government to make announcements through the local member of any works of a major nature that are to be undertaken within that electorate in order that he can be kept informed?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-As a general practice, yes. The honorable member for Greensborough did not mention who made the announcement.

EDUCATION OF MIGRANT CHILDREN.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition).-Is the Minister of Education in a position to inform the House of the plans of the Education Department to assist in the education of migrant children? Are those plans dependent On assistance from the Commonwealth Government; if so, what assistance has been sought and what assistance does the Department expect to receive?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-Repeated requests have been made to the Commonwealth Government for assistance in this field. As the result of those requests and representations from other States, the Commonwealth made available a sum of approximately $90,000 to be spent in the 1969-70 financial year. At this stage it is expected that a sum in excess of $300,000 will be granted in the present financial year. This money can be used for payment of teachers' salaries, and for teachertraining courses. One of these courses was recently completed at the new special services building provided at a cost of $2 million. This fund can also be used for the purchase of teaching materials and equipment, but it cannot be used for accommodation. The Government believes this to be a shortcoming, and representations have been made to the Commonwealth Government with the object of having some of these funds used for the provision of urgent accommodation for teachers taking special migrant classes. Victoria has led Australia in this general field and has

already employed 220 special teachers. In fact, this State is making training courses available to teachers from other States.

DISTRIBUTION OF LITERATURE. AT HIGH SCHOOL.

Mr. DIXON (St. Kilda).-Will the Minister of Education investigate a report on a talk-back radio programme this morning that a head master in an eastern suburban high school has distributed literature to students seeking the permission of their parents to march on Friday?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-A worried parent has already contacted me about this matter, and just before lunch I requested the Director-General of Education to give me a report On the complaint.

REPORTS OF MENTAL HEALTH AUTHORITY.

Mr. DOUBE (Albert Park).-In view of the increasing importance in the community of problems associated with mental retardation and mental health, can the Minister of Health explain why the most recent report of the Mental Health Authority available to honorable members is da ted 1967? Will the Minister give an assurance to the House that he will take action to ensure that the authority has available for honorable members reports of a more recent date?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-In reply to the shadow Minister of Health--

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie ).-Order !

Mr. ROSSITER.-In reply to the honorable member for Albert Park, the answer is, "Yes."

CHELTENHAM HOME AND HOSPITAL FOR THE AGED.

Mr. BILLING (Heatherton).-Recently publicity has been given to the condition of patient care at the Cheltenham Home and Hospital for the Aged, allegations having been


made about a condition known as scabies. Will the Minister of Health inform honorable members what steps have been taken to remedy this condition?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-1 have been disappointed with the approach made by the Hospital Employees Federation No.1 Branch in regard to this matter during the past three or four weeks. There has been an outbreak of scabies at the Cheltenham Home and Hospital for the Aged. The acting medical superintendent and the committee of management of the hospital have been concerned and, in conjunction with the Hospitals and Charities Commission, steps have been taken to examine this situation thoroughly with the view of having the disease eradicated. In the past two weeks no cases of scabies have been reported at this hospital.

Mr. HOLDING.-That is progress!

Mr. ROSSITER.-Indeed it is, in view of the outbreak of scabies in the Australian Labor Party.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Order!

Mr. ROSSlTER.-ln the past two weeks, ten additional staff ward members have been appointed, a fact which will allay the anxiety of the Hospital Employees Federation No.1 Branch. A personnel officer will be appointed to the hospital within two weeks. A wages board has rejected the union's claim for penalty rates.

Mr. HOLDING.-What has that to do with the outbreak of scabies?

The SPEAKER.-Order! Only one question may be asked at a time, and it should be answered.

Mr. ROSSITER.-Mr. Speaker, 1 realize that you are in charge of the conduct of the House, but from time to time the Leader of the Opposition yaps like a wounded fox terrier during the question period. especially when the answers are going against the Opposition.

To sum up, the Government is concerned with the Cheltenham Home and Hospital for the Aged, and the Hospitals and Charities Commission and the Department of Health are working in close consultation with the management of the hospital. The situation is under control.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-1 direct a question to the Minister of Health: When was the condition known as scabies at the Cheltenham Home and Hospital for the Aged first reported to the Department of Health? How many patients were affected? What actions were taken, and how long has it taken to bring this condition, to use the Minister's own term, under control? What does the Minister mean by " under control", and is the condition still prevailing in the hospital?

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Order! I point out that this is a rather detailed question to be answered without notice.

Mr. FLOYD.-Do not protect the Minister, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. ROSSITER.-Who wants protection?

The SPEAKER.-Order! My concern is to protect questions without notice time for the House. I call on the Minister.

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-In view of the detailed statistical information required, I ask the honorable member to--

Mr. HOLDING.-Put it on notice! Mr. ROSSITER.-As the honorable

member says, to put the question on notice. On a point of order, M'r. Speaker, the Leader of Opposition indicated by interjection that he was dissatisfied with my answer. Would you ask the honorable member not to make such rude gestures with his thumb?

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie ).-The point of order raised by the Minister of Health does not become him, and there is no point of order.


LATROBE VALLEY OUTFALL SEWER.

Mr. B. J. EVANS (Gippsland East). -1 direct a question to the Minister of Water Supply. By way of preamble, 1 understand that the Mini'ster recently paid a visit to Gippsland. I ask the honorable gentleman whether, in the course of his visit, he noticed the disgusting odours which emanate from the Latrobe Valley outfall sewer, whether he agrees that this is a form of pollution, and whether his Department will direct the Latrobe Valley Water and Sewerage Board to take steps to rectify the situation.

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister of Water Supply) .-1 have not inspected the works mentioned by the honorable member, but I have had discussions with the Latrobe Valley Water and Sewerage Board about them. The matter concerns me to the extent that I have an interest in it, but the responsibility for control lies with the Latrobe Valley Water and Sewerage Board. However, I shall be happy to ask the board to report to me on the progress that it is making to overcome the problem and I shall inform the honorable member ~

FIREARMS AMNESTY. Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds).

I direct a question to the Chief Secretary. In view of the rash of armed holdups, will the Government consider calling an amnesty to allow people to hand in firearms, as has been done in the past? The previous amnesty providing for the handing in of weapons illegally held was successful.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-1 understand that some action along these lines is being taken in New South Wales at present. The Government will watch the success or otherwise of this activity and will consider the honorable member's proposal.

LEVEL CROSSING AT WATSONIA. Mr. FELL (Greensborough).-I

direct a question without notice to the Minister of Transport. Is the Minister aware of a railway level crossing smash which occurred at Grimshaw Street, Watsonia, at 11.15 p.m. yesterday? In view of the hazards at this crossing for pedestrians and for children attending a neighbouring school, and also the intensive traffic flow of 10,000 vehicles per day, will the Minister give special consideration to the installation of boom barriers at this crossing as a matter of urgency, particularly in view of the local municipality's agreement to pay its contribution for road alterations although not for the boom barriers?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport) .-1 am not aware of the accident or collision to which the honorable member refers, but I shall see that I learn about it before the day is out. I take it that this is an ordinary rail-road level crossing. In regard to the general question of the provision of boom barriers at level crossings, I shall repeat the Government's policy for the benefit of honorable members who are interested. The Government will provide twothirds of the cost of the installation of boom barriers if the local municipal council will provide the other third. In this particular case, if the local council will meet its share of the cost, 1 assure the honorable member that I will expedite the installation of the boom barriers.


Mr. DOUBE (Albert Park).-Earlier 1 asked the Minister of Health a question comprising two parts but the honorable gentleman answered only the latter part, which was to this effect, "Will he do all he can to speed up the presentation of reports of the Mental Health Authority?" The 1967 report is the only one that is now available to members.

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-1 JOIn issue with the honorable member for Albert Park,


in that I answered the question by saying, " Yes", and the answer applied to both parts of the question.

SUBSIDIES TO INMATES OF NURSING HOMES.

Mr. BORNSTEIN (Brunswick East) .-Will the Minister of Health inform me whether the Hospitals and Charities Commission has recently changed the criteria under which persons with insufficient means to pay for nursing home accommodation are eligible for subsidies, and if so, will the Minister explain to the House the new eligibility formula?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-The criteria adopted by the Hospitals and Charities Commission for eligibility for assistance in nursing home accommodation are based on the availability of beds in private hospitals to take the place of beds which are not available within the State hospital geriatric system. Recently there has been an increase in the general costs of private hospital accommodation and that increase has been based on a number of factors which I do not intend to canvass at this stage. In a sense, the Hospitals and Charities Commission is not concerned with the increased costs of beds in private hospitals, but it is concerned that the State has to pay $200,000 to '$300,000 a year to make provision for accommodation of geriatric patients in private hospitals.

Mr. WILToN.-That is because the Minister is not doing the job properly 'with Government hospitals.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon fChristie).-Order! It is quite plain that it is not possible to conduct questions without notice properly when other questions are asked by interjection. The Minister of Health is answering a question and he should not be interrupted.

Mr. ROSSITER.-Mr. Speaker, in 'view of the length of time between the start and finish of the answer I seek your indulgence to allow me to repeat the answer.

The SPEAKER.-The Minister may do that.

Mr. ROSSITER.-The Hospitals and Charities Commission is reviewing the criteria for admittance into the private hospital field. In this review a number of points are being considered, one of which is whether or not the State ought now to take up certain offers of assistance that have been made by the Federal Government.

HAPPY VALLEY HOUSING ESTATE, NORTH MELBOURNE.

Mr. CLAREY (Melbourne).-Can the Minister of Housing inform the House of the decision, if any, that has been made in regard to the replacement of shops demolished in the Happy Valley estate in North Melbourne?

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Housing) .-The reconstruction of shops in the demolition area in Happy Valley in North Melbourne has been discussed at great length with representatives of the area, town planners and a considerable number of other people. The decision that has been reached by the Housing Commission is, I believe, correctly based on the availability of existing shops and the proximity of another shopping centre across the street. It appears to me that the solution arrived at is the best available considering all the circumstances involved.

PUPILS' TRAVELLING ALLOWANCES.

Mr. B. J. EVANS (Gippsland East). -My question to the Minister of Education relates to the daily allowances paid to pupils who have to travel more than 3 miles to school. Is the honorable gentleman aware that for approximately three years the New South Wales Government has paid allowances varying from three to almost seven times the allowances at present applying in Victoria and will he investigate the New South Wales scheme with a view tf) implementing a similar scheme in Victoria?


Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-1 am aware that higher allowances are paid in New South Wales. The Victorian Education Department is progressively removing some of the anomalies associated with its transport system. In fact, first priority is being given to this. I remind the honorable member that when the Victorian scheme first started it cost in the vicinity of $80,000 a year, whereas it is now costing $9 million a year. Therefore, there are limits to the degree to which our scheme can be improved in one financial year.

"PORTNOY'S COMPLAINT." Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-Will

the Attorney-General inform me whether the statement attributed to the Assistant Chief Secretary to the effect that any person purchasing copies of Portnoy's Complaint can be proceeded against for aiding and abetting is correct; if so, how many persons have been prosecuted?

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-The honorable member for Northcote cannot ask whether the statement in question is correct. He may ask the second part of the question.

Mr. WILKES.-Will the AttorneyGeneral advise me how many persons have been prosecuted for purchasing copies of Portnoy's Complaint?

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).A question of this nature, which would more properly be addressed to the Chief Secretary, should be placed on the Notice Paper. No Minister can be expected to carry statistics of this type in his head.

COUNTRY RAIL FARES. Mr. Cl,JRNOW (Kara Kara).

Will the Minister of Transport give an assurance that no surcharge will be imposed upon country rail fares to pay for the proposed underground railway in Melbourne?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport) .-The honorable member for Kara Kara should appreciate that country rail fares are tremendously subsidized.

Mr. Ross-EDWARDS. - Suburban fares are also subsidized.

Mr. WILCOX.-That is so, but country rail fares are subsidized to· a much greater extent than suburban fares. All financial matters in relation to the underground rail loop will be disclosed to the House at the right time.


Mr. DOUBE (Albert Park).-So that good questions without notice can be maintained, I shall address a further question to the Minister of Health. I asked him earlier why it was that the most recent report available of the Mental Health Authority was dated 1967.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-This question has been asked before.

Mr. DOUBE. - The Minister answered the question simply by saying, "Yes". Can the honorable gentleman inform honorable members why the reports of the authority are furnished so late?

The SPEAKER. - Order! The honorable member for Albert Park is not allowed to ask the same question twice. The Minister has already supplied an answer to the honorable member's question.

Mr. DOUBE.-The Minister clearly does not understand the question.

The SPEAKER.-He is entitled to give the answer he chooses.

SECONDARY SCHOOL FOR MOONEE PONDS ELECTORATE.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds).Can the Minister of Education inform me whether the Education Department has investigated the


necessity for an additional secondary school to serve the Flemington, North Melbourne and Ascot Vale areas where the Housing Commission has been fairly active? If so, what has been the result of the investigation? Further, will the Education Department consider negotiating with the Gas and Fuel Corporation for the purchase of the obsolete gasometer site in Macaulay Road, North Melbourne, for the construction of a second~ry school to serve this area?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The situation referred to by the honorable member for Moonee Ponds was investigated last

. March. It was decided that the number of students requiring secondary education could be accommodated in the existing schools in the area. This situation will be reexamined in March, 1971. I shall be happy to investigate the suggested use of the gasometer site for school purposes.

SENIOR HIGH SCHOOL FOR BROADMEADOWS.

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).Can the M'inister 'Of Education enlighten me concerning what developments have taken place in ree-ent months, if any, with regard to the senior high school planned for the Broadmeadows district? The Minister indicated to me some time ago tha t tenders were to be called during 1969.

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The position is currently being reviewed. The Education Department will decide at the end of this month whether the school will be opened for 1972.

It is doubtful whether this will be possible, because the department is concentrating on rebuilding or repairing some ten schools which were destroyed or affected by fire. Pr!o~ity has been given to that rebuIldmg programme.

SOLDIER SETTLEMENT BILL. Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of

Lands), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend section 23 of the Land Settlement Act 1959 and the Soldier Settlemoen tAct 1958 and for other purposes.



WEST MELBOURNE MARKET LAND (AMENDMENT) BILL.

Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of Lands) presented a m'essage from His Excellency the Governor recommending that an appropriation be made from the Consolidated Revenue for the purposes of a Bill to amend the West Melbourne Market Land Act 1956 and the Melbourne Wholesale Fruit and Vegetable Market Act 1968, . and for other purposes.


On the moti'On of Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of Lands), the BiB was brought in and 'read a first time.

GAS AND FUEL CORPORATION (BORROWING) BILL ..

Mr. BALFOUR (Minister for Fuel and Power) presented a message from His Excellency the Governor recommending that an appropriation be made from the Consolidated Revenue for the purposes of a Bill to amend section 17 of the Gas and Fuel Corporation Act 1958.

A resolution in accordance with the re-commendation was paS-Sled in Committee and adopt'ed by the House.

On the motion of Mr. BALFOUR (Minister for Fuel and Power), the Bill was brought in and read a first time.

180 Police [ASSEMBLY.] Force.

JUDGES' PENSIONS (AMENDMENT) BILL.

Mr. REID (Attorney-General) presented a mess'age from His Excellency the Governor recommending that an app'ropriation be made from the Consolidated Revenue for the purposes of a Bill to repeal sub-section (6) of section 14 of the County COU'flt Act 1958 and paragraph (d) of subsection (3) of section 12 of the Supreme Court Act 1958 and for other purposes.

A resolution in a'ccordanoe with the recommendation was passed in Committee and adopted by the House.

On the motion of M'r. REID (Attorney-General) , the Bill was brought in and read a first time.

IMPERIAL ACTS APPLICATION (REPEALS) BILL.

Mr. REID (Attorney-General), by leave, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Imperial Acts Application Act 1922.



POLICE FORCE. ALLEGATIONS AGAINST POLICE: REPORT

OF BOARD OF INQUIRY.

For Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition), Mr. Wilkes (Northcote). -I move-

That an address be presented to His Excellency the Governor praying that he will cause to be ,la'id before this House a copy of the report and aU releVtant documents of the board of :inquiry to inquire and 'report as to whether there is credible evidence raising a strong or probable presumption that any and, if so, which members of the Vlictoria Police Force (either past or pres:ent) have been guilty of crimina.} offences by demanding or accepting sums of money directly or indirectly f.rom persons engaged 'in or connected with illegal abortion practices in Victoria or by protecting or wilfully fai,ling to prosecute such persons in respect of such practices.

1Ihe House divided on the motion (the Hon. Vernon Christie in the chair)-

Ayes 20 Noes 40

Majority against the motion .. 20

Mr. Amos Mr. Bornstein Mr. Glarey Mr. Curnow Mr. Doube Mr. Edmunds Mr. Floyd

AYES.

Mr. Lewis (Port~and)

Mr. Lind Mr. Shilton MIJ'. Simmonds Mr. Turnbull Mr. Wilkes Mr. Wilton.

Tellers:

Mr. Fordham Mr. HoJding Mr. Kirkwood Mr. Lewi's Mr. Fell

(Dundas) Mr. Mutton.

NOES.

Mr. BaHour Mr. Billing Mr. BiITell Mr. Bo:rthwick Mr. Broad Mr. Burgin Mr. Crellin Mr. Dunstan Mr. Evans

(Ballaarat North) Mr. Evans

(GIppsland East) Mrs. Goble Mr. Hayes Mr. Loxton Mr. McDonald

(Rodney) Mr. McLa,ren Mr. Maclellan Mr. Manson Mr. Meagher Mr. Mitchel,l Mr. Rafferty Mr. Rees'e

I Mr. Reid Mr. Ross-Edwards Mr. Rossiter Sir Arthur Ry,lah Mr. Scanlan Mr. Smith

(Bellarine) Mr. Smith

( Warrnambool) Mr. St1ephen Sir Edgar Tanner Mr. Taylor

(Balwyn) Mr. Templeton Mr. Thompson Mr. Trethewey Mr. Wheeler Mr. Whiting Mr. Wlikox Mr. Wiltshire.

Tellers: Mr. Dixon Mr. Jona.

PAIRS.

Mr. Ginifer

Mr. Loveg,rove Mr. Trezise

Mr. MacDonald (Glen Iris)

Sir Henry Bolte Mr. Moss.

FAMILY COURTS BILL. Mr. WILKES (Northcote) moved

for leave to bring in a Bill to make provision for the establishment of certain Magistrates Courts as Family Courts for the better determination of disputes or matters affecting family

Motor Car [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] (Amendment) Bill. 181

life, to vest Family Courts with certain jurisdiction and powers, and for purposes connected therewith.


first time.

PARLIAMENTARY COMMISSIONER (OMBUDSMAN) BILL.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote) moved for leave to bring in a Bill to make provision for the appointment and functions of a Parliamentary CommISSIOner (Ombudsman) and for purposes connected therewith.



URBAN RENEWAL BILL. Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds)

moved for leave to bring in a Bill to provide for the exercise of jurisdiction in creation of plans for the construction and restoration of cities and urban areas.



MOTOR CAR (AMENDMENT) BILL. Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister of Water

Supply) .-1 move-That this Bill be now read a second time.

Under section 33 of the Motor Car Ac~ 1958 the maximum speed at WhICh a motor car used for carrying passengers for hire may travel is 50 miles per hour. However, where the l~w: prescribes a maximum speed lImIt of less than 50 miles per hour for motor cars generally, commercial passenger carrying vehicles are required to observe that lower limit. This restriction means that drivers of taxis and private hire cars are not permitted to travel at speeds exceeding 50 miles per hour on those highways which are known as freeways and on which speed limit signs are erected permitting other drivers to travel at speeds in excess of 50 miles per hour.

Before a motor car may be used as a taxi or a hire car it must be licensed under the Transport Regulation Act 1958. In order to obtain such a licence, the motor car must be examined by inspectors of the Transport Regulation Board, who are qualified " A " grade engineers, to ensure that it is safe. A further safety check is made each year before the licence for that vehicle is renewed. In addition, the driver of the taxi or private hire car must be the holder of a driver's certificate. To obtain such a certificate, the driver must pass a special test, conducted by the Police Department, to demonstrate his proficiency as a driver and his knowledge of the law. A driver's certificate is issued to a person only after he has passed a medical examination as to his general fitness and an eyesight test.

In these circumstances the Government considers it reasonable to permit such motor cars to travel at speeds of more than 50 miles per hour on those highways where special speed limits for taxis and private hire cars have been declared by the Governor in Council. An amendment to the law in this respect would be of considerable benefit to users of taxis and private hire cars on declared highways where time 'is often important to the passengers. The declaration of the TulIa'marine Freew,ay as a highway with 'a declared limit of more than '50 mi'le'S per hour 'is a case in point. However, where speed Bmit signs of les's than the declared speed have been erected pursuant to the provisions of the Road Traffic Regulations 1962, taxi,s and private hire cars will be required to observe those lower Hmlits.

Clause 2 of the BUI amends section 33 of the Act by 'Substituting a new sub-paragraph (i) in paragraph (c) of sub-section (2). The effect of the amendment i'S that taxi,s and private hire cars licensed under the Transport Regulation Act 1958, used on a highway declared by ,the Governor .in Coundil, may travel up to the maximum speed for taxi'S and private hire

182 Motor Car (ASSEMBL Y.] (Amendment) Bill.

cars specified in the notice for that highway. Where the highway is not a highway so declared, the maximum speed at which taxis or private hire car,s may legally travel will stJill be 50 miles per hour. Where the motor car is not a licensed taxi for private hire under the Transport Regulation Act but is used to carry passengers for hire, the maximum speed will remain at 50 mli1es per hour.

Pa'ragraph (b) of clause 2 inserts two new 'Sub-,sections into section 33 of the Act. The new sub-section (2A) empowers the Governor in Council by notice published in the Government Gazette to decla're any highway or portion of a highway and in that notice to spedify the maximum speed at which taxis or private hire cars may travel on that highway. The new sub-'secHon (2B) excludes from the speed limit,s with respect thereto, any taxi or private hire car which is travelling without passengers, that is, where the only person in the motor car is the driver.

I refer now to a matter affecting the currency of a contract of thirdparty insurance in respect of the renewal 'Of the 'registration of a motor car. Under section 10 of the Act the renewal of registration of a motor car may be obtalined at any tim'e up to fourteen days after the expiry of the prior regi'stration. The 'contract of third-party insurance endures to and including the fourteenth day.

In 1969, the Parliament amended the AC'ts Interpretation Act 1958 hy the insertion of a new section 31A which provides that where the time 'limited by any Act for the doing of any act or thing expires or falls upon a holiday, the act or thing may be done on the day next following that is not a holiday. In tJhi,s context " holiday" i's defined to mean a Saturday or Sunday aT a day which is a public holiday or a bank holiday in the place in which the act or thing i's to be or may be done. Accordingly, if it 'should happen that the fourteenth day after the expiry of the prior registration faUs on a holiday, the time for

Mr. I. W. Smith.

effecting renewal of the registration is extended until the day next following that day and which is n'Ot a holiday.

Sub-'section (8) of ,section 42 of the M1otor Car Act 1958 provides that a contract of third-pa'rty insurance shall remain in force for fourteen days longer than the period of registration. Because this section does not pro vii de a time limit for the "doing of any act or thing" the period is not extended beyond the fourteen'th day by the operation of section 31A of the Acts Interpretation Act. It would appear, therefore, that where the regi'stration of a motor car may be renewed after the expiration of fourteen days but within the extended time permitted under section 3lA of the Acts Interpretation Act, fhere would be one or more days during which the motor ca'r would not be insured.

By way of illustration, I ask honorable members to consider the case in which the fourteenth day for the renewal of the registration of a motor car expires on Good Friday. Under section 3lA of the Acts Interpretation Act, the period of fourteen days allowed for renewal of the registration would be extended to the' following Wednesday. However, the contract of third-party insurance would not cover the vehicle for the period from Good Friday to the following Wednesday.

The purpose of paragraph (a) of clause 3 of the Bill is to amend subsection (5) of section 10 of the Act and sub-section (8) of section 42 of the Act to apply the extended period permitted under section 31A of the Acts Interpretation Act to both the period within which renewal of registration may be effected and to the duration of the contract of insurance.

Clause 4 of the Bill concerns portable mechanical devices which are used by members of the Police Force and Country Roads Board

Motor Car [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] (Amendment) Bill. 183

inspectors to check the axle load of vehicles. Section 91 of the Act provides that, for the purposes of any prosecution under this Act, the weight carried on any axle of a motor car or trailer determined by any prescribed device shall, after due allowance of the prescribed limits of error, be prima facie evidence of such weight. The section makes no reference to the testing and sealing of the device.

Clause 176 of the Motor Car Regulations defines a "device" to mean a portable mechanical device. Under clause 177 of the regulations, the use of a portable mechanical device for determining tyre or axle weigh,ts of a motor car or trailer is prohibited unless the device has been tested and sealed in the manner prescribed by the engineering department of the University of Melbourne.

Clause 184 of the regulations provides that the production of a certificate in the form of the fortysecond or forty-third schedules to the regulations, purporting to be signed by certain members of the staff of the University of Melbourne or their deputies, shall be prima facie evidence of the testing and sealing of the device referred to in that certificate. However, there is no substantive provision in the Act to provide that in any proceedings for offences under the Act, the certificate shall be prima facie evidence that the portable mechanical device has been tested and sealed as prescribed. Clauses 4 and 5 of the Bill correct that omission.

Sub-clause (1) of clause 6 corrects a mistaken reference appearing in paragraph (c) of sub-section (1) of section 4 of the Motor Car Act 1969 by substituting the expression "subsection ( 40)" for the expression "section 40". Sub-clause (2) of clause 6 deems the amended subsection (40) to have come into operation on 14th April, 1970, which is the date on which paragraph (c) of sub-section (1) of section 4 of the Motor Car Act 1969 originally had effect. 1 commend the Bill to the House.


It was ordered, that the debate be adjourned until Tuesday, September 29.

ROAD TRAFFIC (AMENDMENT) BILL.

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister of W'ater Supply) .-1 move-


The objects of this Bill are to amend-

(a) the Parliamentary Committees Alet 1968 and the Road Traffic Act 1958 regarding the control of the parking of vehicles on the Parliam·en'tary reserve; and

(b) the Road Traffic Act 1958 with respect to the parking of vehicles on roads which are subject to the control of committees of management of ceJ:'ltain specified alpine resorts.

The provisions of the Bill which 1 shall first outline to honorable members are proposed at the request of the Hous'e Committee of this Parliament. This portion of the Bill is another step towards extending the parking infringement procedures to areas whkh are essentially public but which are not within the jurisdiotions of municipal councils or members of the Police Force. It has been done to relieve difficult parking situations which, as honorable members are aware occur from time to Hme and which' have been of considerable concern to the House Committee. The measure is in the interests of the public and wHI facilitalte the proper functioning of the House.

p.aragraph (b) of clause 2 of the Bill will enable the Governor in Council, by order, to extend the Road Traffic Act and Road Traffic Regulations to the Pa'rliamentary reserve as if it w,ere a road or st'reet. When such an order has been made

184 Road Traffic [ASSEMBLY. ] (Amendment) Bill.

the Hous'e Committee will have power to enforce regulaNons relating to parking. This should enable the committee to stop unauthorized parking which has hindered access by honorable :members and other citizens officially calling upon hono!~able members at the House. Paragraph (c) of clause 3 provides that any prosecutions dedded upon shall be taken only upon the direction in wrfting of an officer of Parliament authorized to do so by the House Committee.

Clause 5 vests the control of the Parliamenta'ry reserve in the House Committee for the purpose of the Road Traffic Act 1958. The land delineated in the schedule in clause 5 includes the Parliament gardens, the rear courtyard and the front driveway. Unlawful parking, in not only the current parking areas but any future areas which may be set aside for parking, may therefore be made subject to the Road Traffic Act, its enforcement procedures and penalties. I again draw the attention of honorable members to the safeguard provision in paragraph (c) of clause 3 which provides that no prosecution can be launched without a direction in writing signed by an officer of the Parliament authorized by the House Committee.

I refer now to the provisions of this Bill which relate to the enforcement of the parking and leaving standing provisions of the Road Traffic Regulations 1962 by certain specified alpine resorts committees of management. The Alpine Resorts Development Advisory Council has advised the Government of the substantial difficulties confronting various alpine resorts committees of management because motorists visiting those resorts in the snow season fail to observe the no parking signs and otherwise ignore the Road Traffic Regulations in so far as they relate to the parking of vehicles.

The problems of committees of management in keeping roads open to traffic and dealing with traffic congestion generally are already very great without those problems being

Mr. 1. W. Smith.

aggravated by illegal parking. Because these snow resorts are in such remote areas, it is unlikely that members of the Police Force and municipal officers would be available to enforce the regulations at the times that they would be most needed.

The Government therefore considers it desirable that officers of committees of management of particular resorts should be authorized to take proceedings for any breach of the regulations relating to the parking of vehicles on any road under the care and management of the committee. A similar power is already extended to the Albert Park Committee of Management to take proceedings for any breach of a regUlation relating to the parking or leaving standing of a vehicle on any street or road under its care.

The committees of management of alpine reserves with which this Bill is concerned are-

(a) Falls Creek Tourist Area Management Committee;

(b) Mount Buller Alpine Reserve Committee of Management;

(c) Mount Buller Road Scenic Reserve Committee of Management;

(d) Mount Baw Baw Alpine Reserve Committee of Management;

(e) Mount Donna Buang Scenic Reserve Committee of Management;

(f) Lake Mountain Scenic Reserve Committee of Management; and

(g) Mount Hotham Alpine Reserve Committee of Management.

Clause 2 empowers the Governor in Council to delegate to the committees of management of the alpine resorts which I have specified any authority, discretion or power in relation to the Road Traffic Regulations 1962.

Clause 3 will enable any of the specified committees of management, together with the Albert Park

Lotteries Gaming and [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Betting (Amendment) Bill. 185

Committee of Management, which is already within section 7, to prosecute for any breach of any regulation relating to the parking or leaving standing of a vehicle where the breach occurs on any street 'Or road under the care and management of that committee.

Clause 4 will enable the committee of management taking proceedings for a breach of the parking or no standing regulations to retain any moneys recovered by way of fines. The moneys so recovered are required to be paid into the appropriate funds of the committee. I commend the Bill to the House.


It was ordered that the debate be adjourned until Wednesday, September 23.

LOTTERIES GAMING AND BETTING (AMENDMENT) BILL. Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister of

Water Supply) .-1 move-


Its objects are-

(a) to permit Calcutta sweeps to be conducted on dog-races; and

(b) to revise the fees to be paid for a permit to keep and use a pinball machine for amusement only.

Pursuant to sub-section (4) of section 5 of the Lotteries Gaming and Betting Act 1966, the secretary of a club licensed under the Liquor Control Act 1968, when authorized by a permit in writing from the Chief Secretary, may conduct a Calcutta sweepstake with respect to horseraces, subject to certain specified conditions, namely-

(i) Subscriptions are canvassed or made only on club premises;

(ii) participation is limited to members and their guests;

(iii) not more than 5 per cent of the proceeds of any sweepstake is retained by the club for its expenses of conducting the sweepstake and the whole of the remainder is distributed among the participants by way of prizes; and

(iv) advertising of the sweepstake is restricted to club premises.

A club may not be issued with more than two permits in anyone year. The prescribed fee for each permit is $20.

In recent years, dog-racing has grown dramatically in popularity with the public. Furthermore, because of the operation of the Totalizator Agency Board on dog meetings, the major clubs are in a sound position financially and are now able to hold dog-racing events of national importance. So much has the popularity of these events been advanced that dog-racing interests have made representations to the Government to permit Calcutta sweeps to be held on feature dog-racing events. The Government considers it is reasonable tha t the Lotteries Gaming and Betting Act should be extended to enable clubs which hold a licence under the Liquor Control Act to also conduct Calcutta sweeps on dog-races.

Clause 2 extends the provisions relating to Calcutta sweeps to dograces. Clause 3 revises the charges to be paid for a permit to keep and use a pinball machine. In 1969, section 68 of the principal Act was amended to provide for a fee of $20 for the issue of a pinball permit. It was explained to the House on that occasion that it was necessary for police to spend a considerable amount of time when dealing with an application for a pinball permit in examining the type of pinball machine to be used and in particular in checking the character of the applicant. Parliament agreed that a fee of $20 was justified for the issue of a permit and a fee of $10 for the renewal of the permit.

186 . Home Finance [ASSEMBLY.] (Amendment) Bill.

Experience has shown that the majority of applications are refused wHh the result that no fee is payable to recoup the department for portion of the cost of police time spent in carrying out their ex,amination of the machine or checking 'On the applicant. The Government considers it is reasonable that a fee should be paid to cover the administrative work involved in connection with this kind of application even where the application is 'refused. Accordingly, the new sub-section (3B) as contained in clause 3 of the Bill proposes to amend the fees for a pinball permit.

The effect of the new sub-section is to-

(a) require every applicant for a pinball permit to pay $10 on m·aking- hi,s application;

(b) require the applicant to pay a further fee of $10 for the issue 'Of such permit; and

(c) pay $10 for the renewal of the permit.

I commend the Bill to the House.

On the motion of Mr. WILKES (Northcote), ·the debate was adjourned.

lot was ordered that the debate be adjourned until Wednesday, September 30.

HOME FINANCE (AMENDMENT) BILL.

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Housing) .-1 move-


The single purpose of the measure i,s to increase, from $11,600 to $14,000, the valuation ceiling-land and improvements thereon-applying to both first and second mortgage loans made by the Home Finance Trust. The trust, which was constituted under the Home Finance Act 1956, was given the power to receive money on deposit for the purpos'e of making loans on the security of a first mortgage of a dwelling house.

One of the restrictions placed on the trust was that the value of the dwelling house in respect of which a loan was granted was not to exceed $9,000. That limit remained in force until 1961, when the Act was amended to increase the amount to $10,000. By an amending Act, No. 6933, a'ssented to in November, 1962, the powers of the trust Were extended to permit the making of se1cond mortgage loans. The valuation limit of $10,000 was also appl,ied to these loans.

The valuation limit in respect of both first and ,second mortgage 'loans was further increased to $11,600 by Act No. 7363 assented to on 21st December, 1965. Since that date, the cost of acquiring a home has increased steadily, and during the last el'ection campaign the Government gave an undertaking to increase the valuation limit. This Bill gives effect to that promise.

Since it com'menced operations fourteen years ago, the 'trust has granted 4,871 fi'rst mortage loans and 3,172 second mortgage loans, for an aggregate amount of $36,357,870. Under the powers conferred on it by the Act, the trust has, since its inception, raised from va'rious lenders a total of $27,850,000, of which $22,849,261 was outstanding as at 30th June, 1970. At that date, 3,759 first mortgage loans and 2,623 second mortgage loans involving amounts totalling $25,869,619 and $2,624,680, respectively, w·ere subsisting. I commend the Bill to the House.

On the motion of Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds), the debate was adjourned.

It was ordered that the debate be adjourned untH W'ednesday, Septem-ber 23. .

Discharged Servicemen's [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Preference (Amendment) Bill. 187

DISCHARGED SERVICEMEN'S PREFERENCE (AMENDMENT)

BILL. Mr. REID (Attorney-General).

I move-Tha,t this Bill be now read a second time.

As many honorable members will be aware, section 5 of the Discharged Servicemen's Preference Act 1943 provides for the appointment by the Governor in Council of the Discharged Servicem'en's Employment Board, consisting of three members. The effect of sub-section (3) of section 5 is that two of the members are required to be discharged servicemen and the third member a representative of employers. Sub-section (4) of the section provides that one of the discharged servicemen shall be appointed as chairman of the board.

Proceedings of the board are governed by sub-s'edtions (9), (10) and (11) of section 5. Sub-section (9) provides that a quorum shall consist of the chairman and at least one other membe'r. Sub-section (10) deals with acts of the board during a vacancy, but is not relevant for present purposes. Sub-lsection (11) provides, among other things, that at every meeting of the board the chairman shall preside.

The practical result 'Of sub-section (9) of 'section 5 is that in the absence of the chairman the board cann'Ot act. It is 'Pflimarily for this rea,son that the Bill has been introduced. Clause 2 of the BiB theref'Ore proposes the amendment of sub-section (9) of secti'On 5 to aHow any tw'O of the appointed members of the board to -constitute a quorum. In this clause, the opportunity ha's -also been taken to bring paragraph (a) of sub-section (3) of section 5 of the Act up to date by substituting the name "Returned Services League of Australia " for the form-er name of that body.

Clause 3 proVlides for a new section 5A which will-

(a) lin the absence of the cha.irman, enable the other disc'harged serviceman -to act as chairman; and

(b) enable the secretary of the board to act as a member in the event of absence 'Of an appointed member.

The fir,st of these provisions flows from the removal of the requirement that the chairman shall be one of the two members constituting a quorum. The second provi,s'ion is designed to ensure that a board of three is available, despite any absence of an appointed member, to conduct a hearing in respect of allegations of breaches of the preference provisions of _ the Act. I commend the Bill t'O the House.

On the motion of Mr. EDMUNDS (MlQonee Ponds), the debate was adjourned.

It was ordered that the debate be adjourned until -Wednesday, Septem-ber 23.

CRIMES (AMENDMENT) BILL.

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).I move-

That .this Bill be now read a second time. This measure is designed to improve the working of the Crimes Act 1958, and the proposed amendments fall into three groups. None of the groups is related to the others, and it is appropriate that I should comment on each of them separately. Claus'e 2 proposes an amendment of section 391 of the Crimes Act, which requires that when an accused per'son pleads " not guilty" a jury shall be empanelled. The purpose of the amendment tis to remove the requirement for empane'llling a jury where an ,accused person pleads" not guilty" t'O any 'Count and the Crown does not propose to lead eV1idence.

A,s 'section 391 stands, it is necessary even in these circumstances to empanel a jury to return a verdict of "not guilty". The judges of the County Court have drawn attention to the fact that this not only wa'stes a great deal of time but also tends to bring the jury system in criminal t'rials into disrepute. The change pro-

188 Crimes (Amendment) [ASSEMBLY.] Bill.

posed in ·clause 2 ha's the approval of the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court and of the judges IQf the County Court.

Section 400 of the Crimes Act deals with the giving of evidence by the husband or wife of :a perslOn charged wj:th an offence. Sub-'Section (3) of the section provlides that the husband or wife of 'a person 'charged with any of cer.tain specifi:ed offences " may be compeUed to give evidence for the prosecution in the Isame manner as if he or she were not the husband or wife of the per-son charged ".

In The Queen v. Callendar (No.1) (1957) V.R. 533, Mr. Justice Sholl held that the words "for the prosecution" in section 13 of the Crimes Act 1949, which for present purposes corresponds with sub-section (3) of section 400 of the 1958 Act, were not sufficiently wide to cover cases in which the Crown is applying to revoke the bail of an accused person. The view is taken that the same would apply to cases where the Crown is opposing an application to the Supreme Court for bail by an accused person.

In some cases, it is the safety of a wife which gives rise to the Crown's desire to revoke bail or to oppose the grant of bail, and the wife may well be the only witness who could properly swear to the facts which give rise to the Crown's attitude. In these circumstances, the SolicitorGeneral has recommended the amendment to section 400 of the Act proposed in clause 3 of the Bill.

Both section 546 and sub-section ( 1 ) of section 83 of the Crimes Act make provision for a court to make an order for compensation for damage arising out of an offence of which a person has been convicted by the court. While section 546 applies in the case of any conviction of felony, misdemeanour or summary offence, sub-section (1) of section 83 applies only in the case of a person convicted of stealing or illegally using a motor car. In the light of difficulties which have arisen in

Mr. Reid.

practice, these matters have been examined by a committee of judges of the County Court, which has recommended the substitution of the new section 546 set out in clause 4 of the Bill for the existing provisions. This will, of course, involve the repeal of sub-section (1) of section 83, which is effected by clause 5 of the Bill.

It will be noted that, in addition to dealing with the matters referred to in the existing provisions, the new section 546 provides for the case of a person who, without being convicted, is released upon a recognizance to appear before the court at a later date. It appears desirable that there should be a right of appeal from an order for compensation made by a Magistrates Court, and clause 6 of the Bill amends section 141 of the Justices Act 1958 for that purpose.

I believe the foregoing amendments will overcome problems which have been experienced in the application of the existing provisions of the Crimes Act 1958, and I commend the Bill to the House.

On the motion of Mr. TURNBULL (Brunswick West), the debate was adjourned.


EVIDENCE (SCIENTIFIC TESTS) BILL.

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).-I move-

That this BiB be now read a second time.

Its purpose is to make two amendments to the Evidence Act 1958, which are designed to expedite court proceedings. As the amendments are not related, I propose to comment on them as I deal with the clauses of the Bill.

Clause 1 of the measure sets out the short title, and the usual citation and commencement provisions.

, Evidence (Scientific [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Te.sts) Bill~ 189

Clause 2 proposes a new section 75A, which is modelled on the provisions of section 414A of the Crimes Act 1900 of New South Wales. It will enable evidence to be given of the result of a scientific test, without the necessity for the person who has made the test to give evidence, unless the court otherwise directs. Not only will this save the time of scientific staff, but it will also expedite the conduct of proceedings by the court. It will be noted that subsectian (2) of the new provision expressly saves the operation of sections 408 and 408A of the Crimes Act 1958.

At the present time, persons recording evidence by mechanical means are required by sub-section (2) of section 133 af the Evidence Act 1958 to take an oath before they commence recording evidence in any legal praceeding. As it is not unusual for two, and sometimes three recorders to share the work involved in a single trial, each of' them is required to be sworn and this involves an unnecessary waste of time. It is proposed, therefore, to introduce for persons recording evidence by mechanical means a system of licensing similar to that applying to shorthand writers. Clause 3 makes an appropriate amendment af paragraph (b) of. section 131, which deals with mechanical recording of evidence. It also. provides for insertion af a new section 132A to enable' the Chief Justice to license persons to record evidence by mechanical means, and substitutes far sub-section (2) of section 133 of the Act a new provision for administratian of an aath to. persons licensed under the new section 132A.

I believe the' aJ1lendments proposed in the Bill will eliminate unnecessary delays in legal proceedings, and 1 commend the Bill to the House.

, . On the motion of Mr. TURNBULL

(Brunswick West), the debate was adjourned.

tt was ardered that the debate be adjourned until Wednesday, ·Septerpbe~ 23.

Session 1970.-9

CO-OPERATIVE HOUSING SOCIETIES (AMENDMENT) BILL.

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Housing) .-1 ~ove-

That .this Bin be now ~ead a second time.

T~is rela tively small Bill provides three amendments of considerable impartance. Two of the amendments will be beneficial to prospective members of co-operative housing sacieties while the third is more of a machinery nature. 1 shall now explain the proposed amendments.

The effect of the proposal contained in clause 2 of the Bill is to abolish from sub-paragraph (iii) of paragraph (a) of sub-section (2) of section 34 of the Act the age, limit of dwellings in re~pect of which advances may be made by co.-operative housing societies.

Under the original Co-aperative Housing Societies Act, which came into operation in' September, 1945, advances could be made only in respect of dwelling-houses to be erected. It was not until the Act was amended in 1948 that advances were permitted for other than the erection of homes. That amendment fixed ~he age liJ1lit at ten years, and this was reduced to five years by a further amendment in the fallawing year. It was not until 1967 that the age limit was further varied by an amendment which provided that societies could make advances on dwelling-houses not more than ten years. old.

The Government now cansiders it appropriate to abolish the' age iimit. It is apparent that increased costs of obtaining a home are forcing co-operative housing society members to build or buy on the fringe of develapment which, each year, is extending away from established transport and other services, with resultant difficulties. Remaval of the age limit wauld give praspective barrawers fram ca-aperative h<?using sacieties the opportunity of buying a reasonably-priced established, property, of

190 Co.:.operative Housing [ASSEMBLY.] Societies (Amendment) Bill.

which there are many on the market today, in areas closer to the city and where all services are available.

Clause 3 provides the important amendment of a machinery nature which I mentioned in my opening remarks. It proposes that section 72 of the Act be amended to increase, from five to six, the membership of the Co-operative Housing Advisory Committee to provide for representation on the committee of the Institute of Building and Housing Society Secretaries (Auslralia).

It is appropriate to refer briefly to the functions of the advisory committee, which are set out in sub-section (5) of section 72. These functions include the submission of recommendations to the Treasurer of Victoria with respect to the regulations and model rules to be made under the Act, action to be taken for promoting, encouraging and assisting in the formation of societies, proposals to improve the methods of operation of societies, proposals relating to financing the operations of societies and, in particular, to the execution of guarantees and the undertaking of indemnities under the Act, such other matters as are prescribed or as are referred to the committee by the Treasurer of Victoria; and to exercise such other powers and perform such other duties as are conferred on the committee by the Act or by the regulations.

The original Act under which the advisory committee was constituted provided for a membership of three. That number was increased to four by amendment to the Act in 1948 and, by a further amendment in 1953, was increased to the present number of five members, consisting of the Registrar of Co-operative Housing Societies, who is ex officio chairman; an officer of the Treasury nominated by the Treasurer of Victoria; and 3 members who are appointed by the Governor in Council, namely, a Government nominee, a representative of

The F'ederation of Co-operative Housing Societies of Victoria and a representative of the lending institutions.

The Institute 'Of BuHding and Housing Society Secretaflies (Australia), which came into being in 1959, and includes amongst its objects the development of and research into all aspects of society administration, has been a very active and useful body and has done much work, particularly in the accounting field, to improve the standard and efficiency of societies.

Members of the institute have always co-operated very effectively with officers of the Registry of Cooperative Housing Societies in matters relating to the administration of societies. In recent years, they rendered considerable assistance in establishing winding-up procedures and in the conversion to decimal currency, which was effected with little difficulty.

While it can be said that the interests of the institute members have always been represented on the advisory committee, it is equally true to say that, in fact, the federation nominee represents the employer societies. The proposed increase in the membership of the advisory committee will permit direct representation of the institute and, it is considered, will be beneficial to the movement generally.

The proposed amendment contained in clause 4 arises from an undertaking by the Government during the election campaign several months ago to increase the maximum amount of advance which may be made by a society to anyone member. In fact, societies have already been given approval to adopt the new limits to which I will refer in respect of those cases where the amount of advance proposed does not exceed 80 per cent of the valuation of the security.

Section 76 of the Act, which governs the advance limits in indemnity cases, provides that a society may advance to a member an amount exceeding 80 per cent of the valuation

Co-operative Housing [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Societies(Amendment)Bill. 191

of the proposed security where the amount at risk, that is, the amount of advance reduced by the value of the share capital of the member, less the amount required to be advanced for street-making including drainage or for sewerage or, if either or both of these services have been completed in respect of the land, the amount of $600 in respect of street-making including drainage or $300 in respect of sewerage, or both of such amounts, as the case requires, does not exceed $7,500 or, in the case of a member having five or more dependent children, $8,900. These limits were fixed by an amending Act, No. 7575, which received Royal assent on the 15th March, 1967.

It is now proposed that those limits shall be increased to $10,000 and $11,500, respectively, plus the value of the member's share capital, but that the allowances for streetmaking and sewerage already referred to shall be deleted. Because it is now a requirement that developers must provide a number of servicesstreets, drainage, and so on-when sub-dividing land for housing purposes, it is no longer necessary to retain the allowances for streetmaking and sewerage. In any case, favourable terms can be obtained from municipalities and sewerage authorities.

During the past three and a half years, the costs of obtaining a home have steadily increased, to the extent that many prospective home-seekers in receipt of an ,average wage no longer have the ability to save the amount necessary to meet the difference between the amount of advance available and the cost of a reasonably-priced home. Many of these people are compelled to accept second mortgage loans at high interest rates, which in many instances create hardship, to enable them to complete the erection or purchase of their own homes. Then there are those people who, due to their inability to " bridge

the deposit gap" because of their limited means, have been denied the benefits of co-operative housing finance.

Evidence that the existing maximum advances are not keeping pace with the higher costs of obtaining a home is supported by the fact that, in the last financial year, only 217 indemnified advances were granted by societies compared with 385 in 1968-69 and 529 in 1967-68. In the light of these facts, it is obvious that the proposed increases in the advance limits are warranted.

The statistics which I shall now supply illustrate the tremendous success of the co-operative housing movement in Victoria during the past 25 years. At the 30th June, 1970, there were 1,267 societies on the register, including 21 which had successfully completed their objects and were in various stages of winding-up. Of the societies on the register, 480 have been financed from the Home Builders' Account under the CommonwealthState Housing Agreement. Aggregate membership of societies stood at 53,028.

The loan accommodation made available to societies financed from institutional sources totalled $195,862,000, of which $190,742,000 has been guaranteed by the Government. The funds provided from the Home Builders' Account totalled $147,713,565, including $39,193,565 from the revolving nature of the account. Almost 70,000 families have been assisted by co-operative housing societies. At the 30th June last, 68,417 members had obtained their own homes while a further 1,279 homes were in course of construction. In these circumstances, I commend the Bill to the House.

On the motion of Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds), the debate was adjourned.

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Housing) .-1 move-

That the debate be adjourned until Wednesday next.

192 H~spitals Superanhuation [ASSEMBLY.] (Amendment) Bill.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds).-' If the Opposition is unable to proceed within one week, will the Minister give an assurance that he will extend the period of adjournment?

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Housing) .-My object in suggesting one week was 'merely to facilitate the preparation of the Notice Paper. I shall be willing to agree to a further adjournment if the Opposition is not ready to resume the debate.

The motion was agreed to, and the debate was adjourned until Wednesday, September 23.

HOSPITALS SUPERANNUATION (AMENDMENT) BILL.

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-1 move-


I ts purpose is to extend in one area the provisions of the Hospitals Superannuation Act 1965 and to make certain minor corrections to that Act that have been shown to be necessary and desirable now that the legislation has been operating for a short period. Principally, the purpose of the m.easure is to enable the Hospitals Superannuation Board to accept responsibility for the operation of additional superannuation schemes.

The original scheme in respect of superannuation for hospital employees commenced in 1945-on a voluntary basis-and was controlled by a trust deed in which the Victorian Hospitals Association was named as trustee. This early scheme provided for institutions and hospitals, of which there were then 170, to deduct 5 per cent from salaries of participating employees and, after adding an equal amount from their own funds, to forward this total contribution to the trustee. These contributions were generally forwarded to the Australian Mutual Provident Society as premiums on pure endowment or endowment assurance policies maturing at age 65 for males and 60 for females. The trustee had also established a members investment account into

which were paid the c'ontributions of those members who were not insurable or who were of an age when insurance was not a worth-while proposition; As its name implies, the trustee invested money paid into this account.

In December, 1965, a Hospitals Superannuation Act was passed which constituted . a Hospitals Superannuation Board, consisting of a member of the Hospitals and Charities Commission, a nominee of the Treasurer and representatives of contributors and of the Victorian Hospitals Association. Under the post-1965 superannuation arrangements in respect of males under age 60 and females under age 55, all contributions are paid into a deposit administration type scheme which is conducted by the board in association with the Australian Mutual Provident Society. The policies of endowment assurance or pure endowment held by contributors under the previous scheme at the time of the establishment of the new superannuation scheme were actually cancelled and their values credited to members~ account balances.

The assets of the members' investment account with the Victorian Hospitals Association applicable to the members. of the former scheme were also transferred to the' board~ which proceeded to set 'up credit balances for each member and later interest on the assets was credited thereto.

Other members of the Victorian Hospitals Association scheme at the time of transfer-that is, males aged 60 years or over and females aged 55 and over and members under these ages with no life insurance policies in force-were not required to contribute to the deposit administration scheme and special provision was made to safeguard their interests when their assets with the Victorian Hospitals Association scheme were transferred to the control of the Hospitals Superannuation Board.

Hospitals Superannuation [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] (Amendment) Bill. 193

Clause 14 inserts in the Hospitals Superannuation Act 1965, a new part ---..:Part IVA-containing twelve new sections, Nos. 44A to 44L. Under this part an institution which becom'es a contr,ibuting institution within the m'eaning of the Hospitals Superannuation Act 1965 may, with the approval of the Governor in Council, transfer an existing 'staff superannuation scheme to the ,control of the Hospitals Superannuation Board. Staff membefiS of institution'S contributing to that scheme may elect to become contributors to the Hospitals Superannuation Fund, after which an approprioate amount of ,the 'assets of the instituti'On's 'superannuation ,scheme will be transferred to the fund under new section 44L, or to continue on with the arrangement entered into with the institution even though it is administered by the Hospitals Superannuation Board. This is safeguarded by new section 441.

Under the new 'sec-Dion 441 ,the Hospital'S Superannuation Board l's required to administer, subject to section 44L :and ,as far a1s possible in the same way as wa's originally arranged by the institution, the assets 'Of any scheme transferred to it. Where the contributor does not wi1sh to become a c'Ontributor to the Hospitals Superannuation Fund both the person .contributing and the iTI'st~tution are required to continue to make payments to the board at the same -rates and in the Isame proportion as if the transfer had no.t taken place.

Claus:e 3 authorizes the payment of fees and travelling expenses incurred by member,s of the board in transacting its business. Up untH now only the 'members representing the contributors ,and the Viotorian Hospital's Ass'Ociation have been 'reimbursed these expenses. This dause will amend Isub-'sectJion (13) 'Of section 4 of the principal Act.

A situati'On 'ha's arisen in which the Fairfield Hospita'l,which is a participating instttutJi'On to the fund, wishes to transfer to the Hospitals Superannuation Fund 'the alssets of an existing scheme, now administered through

the Tempe~anceand General Life Assu~an'ce Soc'iety. It rs pos'sible thai a ,simHa'r s'ituation may recur from time t'O time, and clause 4 of the Bill therefore proV'ides for-

(Ii) The transfer to the fund of the a1ssets of any scheme being admini,stered by an institu'tion which 'is, or wishes ·to become, a par1:Jicipating institution;

(lIi) The incorporation in the fund of these a1ssens and crediting c'Ontributors with n'Otional values of the assets transferred; and

(iii) The incorpora,Di'On in the fund of contributions and payments received subsequently from persons to. whom those a'ssets belong. '

This clause adds a new sub-section (4A) to section 11 of the principal Act. Clause 5, t'O some extent at lea1st rs consequential to the contemplated takeover of institutional superannuation 's·chemes. At present the principal Actcontempl'ates the Hospitals SupeTlannuation B'Oard making one agre'ement with 'One insurance- 'Organization. The amending paragraphs of the clause will pe'rm'i't the board to continue arrangements made by the trustees of any ,institutional insurance scheme with insurance bodies other than the 'One selected by the board for it's deposit adminlistrotion scheme that is, the Australian Mutual Provi~ dent Society.

Olause 6 provides for certain additional money t'O be paid into the provident account which was 'set up t'O deal with a sped'al fund which had been established by the Victorian Hospital's Association under the Institutional Staff Superannuation Fund -the common investment fund. As the Act now stands, this provident account, representing amounts yielding profits which are ~hared by all former contribut'Ors to the Institutional Staff Superannuation Fund, oannot be joined by any person who j'Oins 'the Hospitals Superannuation

194 Hospitals Superannuation [ASSEMBLY.] (Amendment) Bill.

Fund. In other words, he must have contributed to the money in the pro~ vident account before he may benefit.

The amendment contalined in pa'ragraph (b) of clause 6 will allow subsCI'1ibers to superannuation schemes taken over by the board to enjoy the benefi,ts of participation in the provident account if the original ,superannuation scheme to which they 'subscribed had followed a simlilar practice of not distributing surplus moneys. The Crown Solicitor has advised the Hospitals Superannuation Board that, while there is nothing in the principal Act specifically to preclude it, the board does not have partJicular power under the 1965 Act to m'ake payment of lump sum's to the dependants of deceased contributors, although the scheme as adopted by the board makes provi'sion for this. By adding a new subsection (3) to ,section 14, clause 7 will authorize the board to make lump-sum payments, either by way of grant or as a loan, to contributors, former contributors and their dependants, for relief of distress or hardship due to sickness or any other cause.

Clauses 8, 9 and 10 amend sections 15, 16 and 28 of the principal Act to overcome difficulties and i'rregularities which have been discovere'd by the operation of 'the Act up to date.

The Hospitals Superannuation Act proVlides for the establishment of three 'accounts, namely, the provident account, the welfare account, and the m'anagement account, all within the Hospita'i's Superannuation Fund. These accounts are for the following purposes-

1. the account into which the board paid aU a1ssets received from a corn'mon investment fund kept by the Victorian Hospital Association as trustees for the old 'superannuation scheme;

2. the account from which the board makes special payments, not particularly covered by the superannuation scheme to contributors or their dependants in need; and

Mr. Rossiter.

3. the managem'ent account into which n'Ot more than 6 per cent of all contributions together wi'th other money is pa,id. Operational expenses are cha'rged to thils account and payments made from ti'me to time to the welfare account.

Clause 8 provides for the payment to the management account of the same proportion of ,supplementary and lump-sum contributions as are taken from regular fortnightly contributions to meet the cost of operation of the board. As the principal Act now stands, the Teturns to 'contributors from supplementary ,md lump-sum contributions could be greater than those from regular fortnightly contributions by officers as. the latter are required to make a provision to cover management costs.

Clause 9 will enable: the board t'O invest its funds in a wider variety of securities in the same nlanner as trustee funds can be invested generally. At the moment, the Hospitals Supe'rannuation Board is llimilted by section 16 of the prinCipal Act to certain securities 'specified in paragraph ( c) of sub-'section 1 ot section 4 of the Trustee Act 1958 and to debenture'S issued by a 'sewerage authority and debentures and inscribed stock iSlsued by the State Electricity Commission. The proposed amendment will enable the board to handle in a more flexible manner moneys that become available for investment during the course of its operations.

Perhaps the most important amendm'ent to be' introduc:ed by clause 9 is that conta'ined in the new paragraph ( e) of sub-sec~ion (1) of section 16, as qualified by the new ,sub-section (IA) of the same 'section. These two amendm:ents 'are set out in pafiagraphs (e) and (I) of clause 9. The first of these amendments, which widens the powers of the board to invest money, will allow the Hospitals Superannuation Board to make loans by way of mortgage on real estate and could cover home building loans.

Hospitals Superannuation [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] (Amendment) Bill. 195

The second amendment sets out means of safeguarding repayments of such loans. The board is authorized to set up a mortgage reserve account, from the funds of which insurance guaranteeing repayment may be taken out and from which repayment of loans not otherwise recoverable may be met.

Under the new sub-section (10) of section 16, the Minister will have the power to determine the aggregate amount from the Hospitals Superannuation Fund that may be invested in loans. These provisions are based on those which have been inserted recently in the Superannuation Act. I refer honorable members to subsection (1) of section 6 of Act No. 6386, as amended by section 5 of Act No. 7584.

The amendment contained in clause 10 will enable a contributor to the Hospitals Superannuation Fund who has taken extended leave of absence for a long period-say, to go overseas either for further postgraduate training or for pleasureto remain a member of the Hospitals Superannuation Fund and continue to make payments on his return to duty. Such a contributor would be required to pay also the payments norm'ally m'ade by a contributing institution on his behalf.

Clause 11, which amends section 33 of the principal Act, increases from 21 per cent to 5 per cent of the total salary the amount of supplementary contributions to the fund that a contributor may make, and also provides for the making by the contributor of supplementary contributions or lump-sum contributions, with a minimum of $50 increasing by rises of $10 up to such total amount as may be fixed by regulation under the Act.

Clause 12 of the Bill specifically ensures that supplementary or lump sum contributions shall not be considered when determining the amount of terminal benefits subsidy that will be made available by the Government through the Hospitals and Charities

FUnd to 'a contributing member in an " A" class institution on the retirement of the contributor. "A" class institutions are mainly subsidized institutions and benevolent societies within the meaning of the Hospitals and Chari ties Act, and all are in receipt of payments through the Hospitals and Charities Fund.

Clause 13 inserts an additional section, 34A, in the principal Act to enable the Hospitals Superannuation Board to negotiate On behalf of a contributor a special additional death or disability cover insurance policy with a suitable insurance company. In th~s way the board w~H be acting substantially as the agent for the contributor and will probably attract to its funds a commission on the coUe'ction of moneys on behalf of the insurance company. I commend the Bill to the House.

On the motion of Mr. LIND (Dandenong), the debate was adjourned.


CIVIL AVIATION (CARRIERS' LIABILITY) BILL.

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport) .-1 move-

That this Bill be now read a second time. This measure will be of benefit to those who travel in certain aircraft in this State. Its purpose is to complement legislation enacted by the Commonwealth concerning compensation liability in respect of accidents in aircraft.

Under the Commonwealth Civil Aviation (Carriers' Liability) Act 1970, which amends the principal Commonwealth Act of 1959-1962, the limit of liability of carriers is increased from $15,000 to $30,000 and these compensation provisions have been extended to holders of charter licences who previously were not liable under the Act.

To assist honorable members I shall briefly explain the Commonwealth and State legislative position

196 Civil Aviation (Carriers' [ASSEMBLY.] Liability) Bill.

in these matters. . Compensation for accidents occurring on international airline opeI'lations is basically governed by the Warsaw Convention of 1929 and The Hague Protocol to that convention of 1955. Australia being a participant to these international agreements, the Commonwealth Civil Aviation (Carriers' Liability) Act embodies the terms of these agreements as law.

. ~he same Act extends similar proVISIOns to operators of domestic airlines in Australia who are holders of airline liceQces under the powers granted to the. Director-General of Civil Aviation by the Air Navigation Regulations. However, prior to an amending Act being passed by the Commonwealth Parliament in June last, commuter service operators holding charter licences were exempt from the necessity to hold airline licences under the Air Navigation Regulations. Consequently, they were not subject to the carriers' liability provisions of the principal Act and the only measure of control was a requirement by the DirectorGeneral of Civil Aviation that operators contract, with their passengers to accept liability.

However, it was common for operators to " contract out "of all liability by the inclusion of printed conditions on tickets, and often p~ssengers carried on charte'r .and." joy" flights could find themselves, so far as compensation is concerned, in a quite different. position from that of passengers in ordinary commercial aircraft-in other words, they could be left lamenting.

The Commonwealth Civil Aviation (Carriers' Liability) Act 1970, therefore, includes amendments which apply to all charter flights and commuter services but, for constitutional reasons, its provisions do not apply to intra-state services except those operated by ~rans-AustraliaAirlines and the purpose of this Bill is to ensure that these provisions apply to such flights within . Victoria.

Mr. Wilcox.

In order to cover this situation and include all intra-state' charter operations, induding " joy-ride ".flights, it is de'sirable that Victor.ia, along with the other States, should amend its legislation to subject intra-state charter operators to the liability provisions of the Commonwealth Act and thereby obtain uniformity throughout Australia. I understand that the other States, if they have not already done 'So, will pais'S the necessary legislation.

Having outlined the desirability of including this group of operators under these liability provisions, I should point out that the maximum amount of compensation, raised by the 1970 Commonwealth Act from $15,000 to $30,000, is not an automatic entitlement. Any injured passenger or dependants of a deceased passenger in claiming compensation from the airline whose aircraft has been involved in an accident, must prove that damage was caused as a result of the accident. The amount of damages is then assessed according to the ordinary principles of law, and damages assessed up to the maximum amount are recoverable in full. Of course, the court may award only, say, $20,000. In any award up to $30,000 there is this same sort of compulsory insurance as 'applies to third-party motor vehicle insurance.

Similar 'provisions in relation to liability for baggage carried are included in the Commonwealth Act and would, therefore, apply to intrastate charte,r operations. Under these provisions the limit of liability for luggage "checked in" with the airline is raised from $200' to $300 and for hand luggage carried into the aircraft by the passenger from $20 to $30.

I shall now explain the specific terms of the Bill. Clause 2 inserts, in the interpretation section of the principal Act" the. d¢finition. of ·a " charter licence" meaning a licenc~ having force and effect as .if it were granted under. ,the Air Navigation

Footwear [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Regulation Bill. 191

Act 1958. This has the effect of subjecting holders of charter licences to the terms and conditions of the Commonwealth Civil Aviation (Carriers' Liability) Act and amendments. Clause 3 merely stipulates that this Act does not operate retrospectively.

That is my interpretation of the meaning of the provisions contained in clause 3. As I said earlier, the Bill will improve the conditions of air travel in this State, particularly for those who engage in charter operations and joy flights. Charter operators are increasing in number in Victoria. This is a Bill which I can properly commend to the House. I suggest that it should be dealt with fairly speedily because, when a measure provides some benefit, I can never see the point in delaying its passage.

On the motion of Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North), the debate was adjourned.


FOOTWEAR REGULATION BILL. Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of

Labnur and Industry) .-1 move-That this· Bill be now read a second time.

This' Bill is to re-enact the Footwear Regulation Act 1958, which is the legislation requiring the marking of footwear and governing certain aspects of the manufacture of footwear. This legislation has been on the statute-book for many years, and was intended to protect the consumer against the use of cheap substitutes for leather and also the responsible manufacturer against unfair competition from the use of such substitutes, which might be made to resemble leather. The legislation has remained substantially unaltered since its beginning in 1916, but recently it was seen that certain changes needed to be made in the light of present-day conditions. As it is such a short Act, it has been thought better to re-enact it in whole, rather than put forward a series of amendments.

This is one of· those areas of government where it is seen to be desirable, both in principle and in practice; that legislation should follow the same course throughout Australia. So, for quite some years, all. six States and the Commonwealth have·followed the same course of legislative action. The amendments incorporated in this revision of the Victorian legislation have been agreed between the several Governments involved. New South Wales, Queensland and South Australia have already introduced the agreed legislation and the othp,r States are now proceeding to do so.

The first subject with which I wish to deal is that of the use of synthetic or other artificial materials. The Act at present requires that every boot or shoe shall be marked so as to describe the material composing the sole, which includes the heel. If this is made of leather, the shoe is to be marked "all leather sole"; if it is made of some' other material, that other material is to be described. It is simpl~. enough. to describe that other material if it is some natural material, but all honorable members will be aware ot the vast and growing range o'f artificial materials being produced and used in manufacture today.

The difficulty thrown up by the existing legjslation is that a true description-which the Act requires -could probably be found only in the use of some chemical formula, which would be of no use whatever to the consumer. This difficulty has been the subject of considerable discussion between the States over the past few years, and the Ministers have come to the view that what the consumer is basically interested in is whether the sole is or is not made of leather.

It is' therefore proposed in the Bill that, where the sole is made of leather, it should be described as " all leather sole "; where it is not made of leather, it is open to the manufacturer to apply a true statement of the materials composing the sole or, if he prefers

198 Footwear [ASSEMBL Y.] Regulation Bill.

it, to use the description "synthetic sole" if it is composed of a synthetic material, or the words cc non-leather sole" in any case. Thus the only responsibility of the manufacturer, the wholesaler and the retailer would be to distinguish between what is leather and what is not. It would still be open to any of these people to supply further information by means of stamps or other marks, provided that the information was truthful, and to use brand names in addition to the statutory requirement.

Representations have been made to the Governments of the several States by the Federated Tanners Association to introduce also a statutory requirement for the description of the materials forming the uppers and linings of shoes, as well as the soles. These representations have been supported by various branches of the Country Women's Association, State school mothers' clubs and similar organizations and were the subject of discussion at the two most recent conferences of State Ministers of Labour. It was agreed at the conference held eadier this year that, as there was no unanimity of opinion among the States, no State would introduce 'Such provisions for the time being. There is no provision in this Bill, therefore, requiring the branding of footwear on the uppers and linings. However, this matter has not finally been determined.

The next matter concerns the material used in the insole. At present the Act includes the msole in the definition of sole and therefore on the face of it the description required by law is 'One that ,includes a description of the material 'Of which the insole is made. However, it is considered that this is no longer nec'essary, as for many years now manufacturers have used a high proportion of artificial material,s for insoles, without complaint, and there appears to be no advantage to the consumer in requiring the materials so used to be described.

Mr. Rafferty.

The next matter concerns the 10-ca tion of 'the mark. A!t present it is required to be applied on the outer sole at the w1aist, but the Bi'll provides for its application as prescribed by regulation. It is considered thalt the manufacturer should be able to choose between several acceptable locations, for example, on the inside of the upper above the waist or on the heel, seat or waist area of the sock lining or insole. A casual inspection in any shoe store will show that many shoes are in fact marked in one or other of those pla,ces now, rather than underneath the sole at the instep. With the use of certain materials, marking on the sole becomes very difficult, if not impossible. There would be no disadvantage to the 'consum'er in the use of other ma'rking places, provided that they could be readily found.

The next ma tter concerns the marking of f,ootwear having rubber soles-whatever " rubber" may mean. The present Act exempts such footwear from the requirement to describe the material; it is proposed in the Bill that this exemption shall be removed, so that the requirement to describe the materials would apply to footwear made of all materials.

The next and fina'l matter conce'rns the identity of the manufacturer. At present the Act requires that the true name of the manufacturer shall be marked on the footw'ear. However, it has been common pra'ctice for many years for manufacturers to use business names or trade names rather than the true nam'e of the company 'Or firm. The basic concern here is to be able to identify the make'r through the mark which appears on the shoes. For this reason, it is not pr.oposed to allow the use of trade ma'rks, as the right to use these oan be let 'Out under licence; it 'is proposed to permit the use o'f a business name which has been registered under the Business Names Act where that business name is the sole property of the manufacturer and where the manufacturer has not granted the right to use it to any other person. As the use of

Footwear [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Regulation Bill. 199

these nlames is to be confined to those registered under the Business Names Act, 'it should always be possible to identify the manufacture'r should the need 'arise.

Clause 1 provides that the A'ct shall come into operation on a day to be fixed by proclamation 'Of the GovernOT in Council published in the Government Gazette. Clause 2 is merely formal. In clause 3, the definition of " sole" has been amended so as to exclude the insole. It will be seen tha t the word "shoes" has been redefined to include boots, so that it is no longer necessary to speak of "boots 'Or shoes" throughout the Act.

Clause 4 incorporate's the provisions of the existing sedtions 4 and 5 and more clearly expresses the requirements imposed on makers and sellers of footwear than does the existing legislation. Sub-clause (1) provides for the use of business nam'es and f.or the desoription of artificial materials by the use of the terms "synthetic sole" or "nonleather sole". In sub-c'Lause (3) the prescription of a minimum penalty has been removed-as it has elsewhere in the Bill-and a maximum penalty only is prescribed, ,in accordance with current practice.

Clause 5 is a re-enactment of subsection (2) of section 5 of the present Act and clause 6 con'tains the existing provisions of section 6. Likewise, the remainder of the Bill contains no substan tial amendment of the existing legislation.

A defect of the present Act is that, for practical reasons, it 'is extremely difficult to enforce its provisions. In considering how the law ought to be am'ended, therefore, lit was kept{: foremost -in mind that what was to be provided ought to be clearly capable of enforcement and to be practicable for the manufacturer. It is believed that both these objectives will be achieved by the provisions of the Bill, which I therefore commend to the House.

On the motion of Mr. SIMMONDS (Reservoir) , the debate was adjourned.

Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of Labour and Industry) .-1 move-


This Bill is virtually the same as a measure which was introduced last year. On that occasion members of this House had ample time in which to examine the Bill before it was sent to another place. In the circumstances I suggest that an adjournment of the debate for one week is reasonable.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-The Minister has read from voluminous second-reading notes and has indicated that many changes to the principal Act are proposed. It is necessary, therefore, for members of the Opposition to make representations to the people who will be affected by these proposed changes., As Thursday of next week is a holiday, it may not be possible for members of the Opposition to investigate the Bill fully and to contact those people who will be affected by it. I am sure the Minister will accept this as being reasonable and I ask him, even though we would prefer the debate to be adjourned for two weeks, to give an assurance that if members of the Opposition are not ready to proceed with the debate next week he will agree to a further extension of time.

Mr. ROSS-EDWARDS (Leader of the Country Party).-The Minister has read from lengthy explanatory notes and I support the submission made by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition that the debate should be adjourned for a fortnight. It is early in the session and it should be made clear to the House that members are here to do a job. We have to play a constructive role in ensuring that every piece of legislation that comes before the House is adequately debated. I ask the Minister in charge'

200 Boilers and, Pressure [ASSEMBL y~] Vessels Bill.

o.f the Bill to, give serious consideratIon to agreeing to an extension of the period of the adjournment of the debate.

Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of Labour and Industry) .-1 am pleased that honorable members recognize that full and complete notes on the Bill have been made available. That was done deliberately to give members of the Opposition and of the Country Party ample opportunity to consider the points of view put forward by, the Government. I am prepared to accede to' the request made by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, and if members of the Opposition are not ready to proceed with the debate next week I shall'consider postponing the debate for a reasonable time.

The motion was agreed to, and the debate ~as adjourned until Wednesday, September 23.

BOILERS AND PRESSURE VESSELS BILL.

and Industry. One was ,the Lifts R~gulation Bill-the forerunner of the LIfts and Cranes 'Act 1967-and one was the Boilers Inspection Bill. However,. in the course of the passage of the BIll through Parliament the Government decided that it wouid be unwise to plac~ on the Chief Inspector of Fact?rIes the responsibility fc;>r developIng two new functions s!multaneously, and the administratIon of the Boilers Inspection Act 1906 was accordingly entrusted to the Mines Department. In 1962, in pursuance of the Government's policy of developing the Department of Labour and Industry as its main agen.c~ fo~ industrial safety, the admInIstratIOn of the Boilers Inspection Act 1958 was transferred to that department.

The third Bill concerning industrial safety which was to have been brought forward in 1906 was a Scaf!olding Regulation Bill. However, It was apparently decided that two new safety measures were enough for one session and the Bill was

Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister 'Labour and Industry) .-1 moV'e-

of deferred. It was not until 1960 that

,That this Bill be now read a second time.

This is a Bill to repeal the Boilers Inspection Act 1958 and to' enact in its place an Act to be called the Boilers and Pressure Vessels Act 1970. The Boilers Inspection Act 1958 differs very little from the original enactment, the Boilers Inspection Act 1906, in spite of the vast developments in the use and technology of boilers ,and pressure vessels during the intervening 64 years. This alone points to the need for a comprehensive review of the present law and practice, which has now been undertaken in connection with the preparation of this Bill.

It is a matter of interest that in 1906 the Government prepared three Bills about industrial safety for introduction into Parliament, all of which were to be administered in the Factories Office of the Chief Secretary's Department-the forerunner of the Department of Labour

the action of the present Government resulted in the enactment of the first scaffolding safety legislation in this State.

The Boilers Inspection Act 1906 was enacted simply because it appeared that many steam boilers then in use were unsafe. Explosions and other accidents were occurring too frequently, persons were being injured and property was being damaged. To cope with this situation the Act was designed so that o~ners of boilers were to register' the boilers with the chief inspector, who would ~hen arrange for inspectors to Inspect them on site. Boilers that were hopelessly unsafe were to be put out of commission, and those that were temporarily unsafe but repairable, were to be taken out of use until repaired to the satisfaction of the inspector. A history of each boiler was to be kept in the chief inspector's office to assist in future inspections, which were to be annual.

Boilers, and ,Pressure [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Vessels Bill. 201

In actual, fact, a register of boilers was compiled and inspections were made. Boilers beyond repair were taken out of, use, those that were repairable were repaired, the sound ones were approved, and a system of regular inspection was commenced. The present Act does not go much beyond this, although some significant changes have occurred. For example, the range of vessels has increased greatly. The original Act applied only to steam boilers and digesters. An Act of 1940, which came into operation in 1947, extended the application of the legislation to embrace air and gas receivers. There is now a wide variety of such receivers, including receivers used in connection with air-operated plant and equipment, large high-pre~sure gas containers used as intermediate storages, and many others. The Bill adds further classes of vessels, by definition, although large numbers are not involved On this occasion. When referring to " vessels", I mean boilers and pressure vessels. Not only are there more boilers and pressure vessels now in use, and more varieties of them and uses for them,but their design and construction have become more complex and sophisticated.

It is quite understandable, therefore, that although the original concept of boiler inspection was concerned only with the physical examination of plant at the site of use, more attention was subsequently paid to the development of standards for design and construction. The Standards Association of Australia has produced comprehensive codes dealing with these matters, and the State Depa'rtments of Labour and Industry, including the Victorian department, have made substantial contributions in this area.

The position in Victoria is that, before a vessel is manufactured here, its plans and specifications must be submitted for the approval of the chief inspector. Further, the vessel is subject to inspection during the

course of construction and installation. However, the Act does not specifically require this. Much' of the practice is based on the codes of the Standards Associ.ation. There are some requirements in the regulations made under the Act, but to some extent the system is based on the obvious fact that it is better for the manufacturer to get approval in the early stages than to wait until ~he vessel is installed and chance haVIng it condemned by an inspector. However this may be, it is clearly desirable that the procedure should be explicitly stated in the legislation, and the Bill seeks to do this.

The present Act recognizes that safety requirements vary as between one class of vessel and another, in that while one class is required to be inspected annually, others need not be inspected more often than once every, four years. The Bill, which takes this principle further, contains various provisions dealing with approval. of design,. supervision of construction and installation, and regular inspection in use. It is intended that some classes of ,vessel shall be subject to all these controls; with other classes, the first two· only might be applied; and with, some, design review might be all that is required. Similarly,. with the frequency of inspections, there is nothing magical about annual inspections. Some vessels need to, be, and are, inspected more frequently than others. I t is therefore proposed to prescribe by regulation the frequency of 'statutory inspection with respect to each particular class of vessel, not forgetting, however, that the Act will still provide that an inspector may inspect any vessel at any time, when he considers it to be necessary.

I shall now refer to the individual clauses of the Bill and mention any changes of substance which are proposed, as compared with the present legislation. Clauses 1 and 2 are introductory and clause 3 contains the definitions. I t is to be noted that cc pressure vessel" and " boiler" are now defined so as to be mutually exclusive terms. The

·202 Boilers and Pressure [ASSEMBLY.] Vessels Bill.

definition of "boiler" acknowledges the recent development of vessels that are similar to steam boilers, except that they use a gas or liquid instead of steam. The new definition also includes hot water boilers where the water is heated under pressure greater than atmospheric pressure to a temperature above 99 degrees centigrade.

Clause 4 proposes that the Crown shall be bound by the Act. This is the general approach now taken by the Government to these matters. In the past three years the application of both the Lifts and Cranes Act and the Apprenticeship Act has been extended to include the Crown. However, sub-clause (3) permits the Governor in Council to grant exemptions. I have no doubt an exemption will be granted to the Victorian Railways Commissioners, who are the owners of hundreds of vessels, which have never been subject to the legislation.

Sub-se'ction (2) of Ise'c'tion 4 of the present Act precludes it'S application to a variety of ,simall steam boilers that were used in primary production. Thi's has not been retained in the Bill, as it Ii'S thought that the use of many of these vessels is now obsolete. If there do happen to be 'Some still in use, exemption can be granted, if necessary, under the new provi'sions of clause 4.

It will be seen from those provisions that it is lintended to allow for both complete and partial exemptions, and for exemptions with or w,ithout conditi'Ons. For example, having regard to the expanded definitions of " boiler" and "pressure vessel", in the case of some classes of vessels it may be neces'sary toO do no moOre than review designs; in others, it may be ne'cessa'ry. toO 'supervise c'Onstruction and instaHa1:iion as well; in others again, a system 'Of regular inrspections will be required -in addition.

Ars much ·ofthe Bill is a re-enactment of provisions of the existing legriS'la'tion, I do. not propose to explain each dause. I shall, however, mention those clause'S involving some major change of substance.

Mr. Rafferty.

Divi'sion 1 of Part II. replaces the present provi'sions for thecertification of boiler welders. The boa'rd of examiners is, in the present Act, for some reason called a "board of reference". That has been remedied and the qual'ifications foOT appointment of what I might call the "academic member" of the board have been somewhat broadened, having regard to the growth of our tertiary institutions.

Divisi'On 2 of Part II. contains the provi's'ionsconcerning the certification 'Of steam engine driveTls and boiler lattendants which are at present to be found in the Labour and Industry Act, but which, it is believed, would more appropriately form part of thils Act. Divi'sion 3 contarins admrinlilstr,ative provisions that are c'Ommon to both boards.

Part III. of the BiH,comprising clauses 17 to 20, concerns approval of designs. It requires that plans and specifications of vessel,s shall be ,subm,itted to and approved by the chief inspector before construction commences. A:s I mentioned earlier, this practice ha:s been followed for some time, on the ba'sis 'Of certain provisions rin the regUlations and in st'andards codes, but it is considered desirable that it ,should be spelt out in the Act.

It may be noted that the reference to domestic pressure cookers in Part III. is to replace the reference to such velssels which now appears in section 1182 of the Labour and Indust'ry Act. The proVli'sion in the Bill appears to be a more ,sati'sfactory app'roach to this matter than the indirect approach now followed in the Labour and Indust'ry Act.

Part IV., which comprises clauses 21 and 22, concerns the supervision of construction and instaHa tion of ve'sselrs. It is rincluded on a simHar bas1is t'O Part 'III; that is, the desi~abi1ity of providing a 'Statutory basis for adminirstrative practice.

Part V. of the Bill deal,s with the matter of regi'strai~on of boilers and pressure vessels. There is one matter to be mentioned here-the deletion

Boilers and Pressure [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Vessels Bill. 203

from the legislation of all references to certificates of inspection. At present there are two different procedures to be followed under the Act with respect to any vessel-a registra1tion procedure leading to t!he issue of a certifioate of registration, and an inspection procedure leading to the issue of a certificate of ,inspection. The former indentifies the velssel, establishes that the annual registrati'on fee was paid and fixes the maximum pressure under whkh the vessel may be opevated; the latter states that the vessel was inspected by an inspector on a certain day and was found to be' ~n a satisfactory condition. The co-existence of these two administvative procedures has been found to be confusing to the owners of vessels, and involves a great amount of unnecess'ary work in the department. The Bill provides, therefore, only for the issue of a certificate of registration. If, upon inspection, it appears that a vessel is not slafe to use, the procedure will be to suspend 'Or cancel its registration, the use of an unregistered vessel being an offence.

Part VI. contains :the various provisions about inspection of boilers and pressure vessels. I direct attention to clause 27, which 'in sub-clause (1) empowers an inspector to inspect a vessel at any /time, as in the present Act. Sub-clause (2), however, departs from the existing legislation, which requi'res that air and gas receivers be inspected at least once every four years and other types of vessel at 'least once every year. The Bill provides for frequency of inspection's to be prescribed by regulation with respe'ct to each particular class of vessel; these can then be amended from time to tim'e as circumstances change. In considering the time limits to be fixed, the Government will seek the advice of the expert board of examiners constituted under the Act. The essential thing is that there shall be some flexibility in the system, having regard to. the extremely wide diversity of plant now coming within the defin:itions of cc boiler" and "pressure vessel ".

In clause 34 the provisions concerning appea'ls against orders of inspectors now to be found in section 25 of the Act have been greatly simplified. In connection with clause 37, it is to be noted that the provisions of sections 34 to 37 of the present Act, empowering the appointment of courts of inquiry to inquire into boiler explosions or accidents, have not been retained. There is no record of such a court of inquiry having been appointed.

Part VII. of the Bill contains the general administrative provIsIons, which have been subject to some redrafting to proVoide greater clarity and to delete superfluous material, and the regulation-making provisions, which are essentially the same as in the existing legislation. I commend the Bill to the House.

On the motion of Mr. SIM'MONDS (Reservoir), the debate was adjourned.

lit was ordered that the debate be adjourned until Wednesday, September 30.

GROUNDWATER (AMENDMEND BILL.

Mr. BALFOUR (Minister of Mines). -I move--

That this Bill be now read a second time. Its ,purpose is to effect certain amendm'ents to Part III. of the Groundwater Act 1969, which Act makes provision for the exploration, conservation and beneficial use of the State's underground water resources. Division 2 of Part III. of the Act is concerned with drillers' licences. Provision is made therein for the setting up of a Drillers' Licensing Board, and section 33 describes the powers of the board in relation to the grant or refusal to grant of applications for drillers' licences. At all times it has been the intention of the Mines Department that drillers' lieences should be of several types, depending on the types of drilling equipment and methods of bore construction that the applicant was qualified to use. It was

204 "Groundwater [ASSEMBLY.] (Amendment)· Bill.

proposed to achieve this by providing for the endorsement of licences in much the same way as is done with drivers' licences.

When the Act was passed it was understood that section 33, coupled with the regulatory powers of subsection (l) and paragraph (i) of sUb-section (2) of section 74, conferred the necessary powers for this. However, when the regulations were being drafted the department was advised that the Act did not provide for the grant of different types of drillers' licences.

Members of the Well Drillers' Association and Mines Department officers consider that for the proper regulation of drilling, and for the protection of groundwater resources, it is essential that only persons with proper experience and qualifications should be allowed to drill, and accordingly it is necessary to have different types of drillers' licences. Clause 4 of the Bill provides that the Drillers' Licensing Board may grant licences endorsed with the method or methods of drilling or bore construction that the holder is entitled to use, for example, rotary or percussion equipment. Clauses 5, 6, 7· and 8 are consequential amendments arising out of the introduction of the endorsement system.

The measure provides for certain other' minor amendments. Clause 2 deals with the form of applica tion for a bore construction permit. Under section 19 of the Act it is a form approved by the Minister and in it must be set out the purpose for which the bore is to be used and such' other particulars as are prescribed. This, of course, means that other particulars must be written into the regulations. It is considered that as this is new and somewhat complex legislation the Minister needs the power to make necessary minor changes in the forms without the need for repeated amendment to the regulations. The Bill substitutes "required" for "prescribed" and provides

Mr. Balfour.

the necessary power for the Minister. It is expected that after a two-year trial period the approved forms and " required" particulars will be'incorporated in revised regulations.

Under sub-section (1) of section 26 of the Act a permit issued pursuant to section 20 remains in force for a period of twelve months. It is considered essential that the person responsible for the execution of the work shall give notice to the M1nister of his intention to commence operations. In many cases the department will have considerable interest in the construction of a particular bore and will wish to have an inspector visit the site to see that the conditions of the permit are being fulfilled or perhaps that the work is being carried out by a licensed driller if this is one of the conditions of the permit. Clause 3 provides that notice of intention to commence operations shall be given to the Minister and thus the department will be enabled to arrange for visits to the drilling site when these visits are considered to be desirable.

I should like to 'point out that it was not thought necessary to delay the proclamation of the Act until this amending Bill was considered as in the interim no drillers' licences will be issued and no bore construction permits issued will include a condition requiring 'the bore to be constructed by a licensed driller.

In commending the Bill to the House, I point out that it is a short straight-forward measure, but if any members of the Opposition or of the Country Party need additional information, I shall be pleased to make officers of my department available.

On the motion of Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows) , the debate was adjourned.

Mr. BALFOUR (Minister of Mines) .-1 move-


River Improvement [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] "(Amendment) Bill. 205

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).I take it that the Minister will be prepared to extend the period of adjournment if necessary. I thank the Minister for his offer to make his officers available if required ..

Mr. BALFOUR (Minister of Mines) .-If necessary, I will agree to an extention of the period of adjournment.

The motion was agreed to, and the debate was adjourned until Wednesday, September 23.

RIVER IMPROVEMENT ,(AMENDMENT) BILL.

Mr. I. W. SMITH (Minister of Water Supply) .-1 move-

That this Bill be now read a second time. Its purpose is to make a number of amendments to the River Improvement Act 1958 and a consequential amendment to the Local Authorities Superannuation Act 1958. The first three amendments are of a machinery nature. while the fourth will bring river improvement trusts into line with waterworks trusts, local governing bodies and sewerage authorities in regard to participation in endowment schemes for their permanent employees. " Clause 2 clarifies the existing provision in sub-section (3) of section 35 with regard to rating estimates of river improvement trusts and makes it clear that the rating estimates must be submitted not less than three months prior to the commencement of the year to which they relate. The amended provision will correspond with sub-section (1) of section' 333 of the Water Act which applies to authorities other than the Water Commission.

Clause 3 increases the minimum amount of any rate payable from 10 cents to 50 cents. The present minimum of 10 cents does not cover the administrative costs involved in sending out a rate notice.

Clause 4 provides that rating bylaws shall be approved by the Minister instead of the Governor in Council.

This will bring the procedure into line with "that applicable to waterworks trusts and local governing bodies constituted under the Water Act and for urban districts operated by the Water Commission. In all these cases the rating by-laws are approved by the Minister. It should be noted that the Act already provides that the rate must be based on estimates previously submitted to and approved by the Minister. The proposed amendment will facilitate administration.

Clause 5 requires river improvement trusts to effect endowment insurance under the Local Authorities Superannuation Act. Waterworks trusts, local government bodies and sewerage authorities are already required to participate in such endowment schemes in respect of their permanent employees. Under these schemes the authority pays the premium and may recover not more than half from the employee. The proposed amendment will require similar participation by river improvement trusts. I commend the Bill to the House.

I propose to ask for the debate on the matter to be adjourned for one week on the proviso that if members of the Opposition and of the Country Party are not in a pOSition to proceed and require an extension of time, I shall be happy to grant it.

On the motion of Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows), the debate was adjourned.


JUDGES' PENSIONS (AMENDMENT) BILL.

Mr. REID (AttorneY-General).-I move-

That this Bill be now read a second time. Earlier this year the pension provisions applying to judges of the Supreme Court and of the County Court were amended by the Judges Pensions Act 1970, and the most important amendment was that the pensions of retired judges and

206 Judges' Pensions [ASSEMBLY.] (Amendment) Bill.

their widows became adjustable from time to time to accord with current salary rates. The amendments came into operation on 5th June, 1970, and were intended to apply t'O all pensioners.

In the case of the Supreme Court Act 1958, the amendments to which I have referred involved changes in sub-section (3) of section 12 of the Act. In the County Court Act 1958, amendments of sub-section (2) of section 14 were required. However, each of these sections contains a provision-paragraph (d) of subsection (3) of section 12 of the Supreme Court Act, and subsection (6) of section 14 of the County Court Act-the effect of which is that nothing in the preceeding provisions shall apply to a judge who did not elect to take the benefit of the Judges Pensions Act 1949. In the result, any retired judge who did not so elect is not entitled to an adjusted pension in accordance with the Judges Pensions Act 1970.

At the time of passage of the Judges Pension Act 1949, provision was made for a pension for judges at the rate of one-half of salary at the time of retirement, but no provision was made for a pension for the widow of a judge who died either in office or after retirement. The 1949 Act amended the existing provisions by providing for a pension for a judge at the rate of 40 per cent of salary at the time of retirement, and for a pension to his widow at the rate of 20 per cent of such salary. Judges serving at that time were given the choice of remaining on the existing 50 per cent provision 'Or of electing to accept a reduction to 40 per cent in return for the benefit to their widows.

The only serving judge who did not make an election under the 1949 Act was His Honour Judge Moore of the County Court. Consequently when he retired he became eligible for a 50 per cent pension without any rights for his widow if he died first.

However, by the Judges' Pensions Act 1963, the pension provisions were altered aga'in, -so far as they related

Mr. Reid.

to judges who had elected to accept a 40 percent pension with a 20 per cent pension right for their widows, and the respective percentages were raj-sed to 50 per cent and 25 per cent. The result of thi's was that Judge Moore found himself in the position tha't his pension rate w-as no higher than that of other judges, but that if he prede'cea'sed his wife, she would not be entitled to a pension, where a's the widows of other judge's would be so entitled. This has ,since be'come irrelev.ant because of the death of Mrs. Moore 'Some few years ago.

Because of the provi'sions of subsection (6) of section 14 of the County Court Act 1958, former Judge Moore i,s not entitled to an adjusted pension lin accordance with the amendments made earlier thi's year. This posi'tion is unjust and anomalous, and clause 2 of the Bill proposes the repeal of sub-tse'ction (6) of section 14. This cl:ause also proposes the repeal of the corresponding provisions in paragraph (d) of sub-section (3) of 'section 12 of the Supreme C'Ourt Act, which no longer serve any useful purpose.

Clause 3 is designed to ensure that the amended pension provisions introduced by the Judges Pensions Act 1970 win apply to former Judge Moore, ,and also to ensure that there is no doubt that all other e~isting pensions will have the bene'fit of those provisions from '5th June, 1970. I commend the Bin to the House.

Mr. TURNBULL (Brunswick West). -The Opposition does not 'Oppose this Bill; consequently, it would be unwarranted to ask for an adjournment.

The motion for the ,second -reading was agreed to by an absolute majovity of the whole number of the m'embers of the House, and the 'Bill was read a second time and pa,ssed through its rem'aining stage1s.

West Melbourne Market [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Land (Amendment) Bill. 207

WEST MELBOURNE MARKET LAND (AMENDMENT) BILL.


Tha:t this Bill be now read a second time.

The main purpose of this proposed enactment is to provide a site for a fruit and vegetable inspection depot for the Department of Agrkulture at the new wholesale market on Footscray Road, West Melbourne.

The propos'ed inspection depot site at present forms portion of the land which lis in course of purchase from the Crown by the Melbourne City Council, under the provisions of the West Melbourne Market Land Act 1956, No. 5993, as amended by Act 1961, No. 6788.

Because the present Bill alters the land descriptions in those Acts, it has been found necessary to make some consequential amendments in the Melbourne Wholesale Fruit and Vegetable Market Act 1968, No. 7760.

The ma!rket site at Fooltscray Road, West Melbourne, in the Parish of Doutta Galla, originally contained an area of 50 aicres which Parliament authorized to be ,sold to the Melbourne City Council in 1956 by the passing of the West Melbourne Market Land Act, No. 5993. That Act provided that the purchase money of $400,000 could be paid by the council by a deposit of $40,000 on or before 31st March, 1957, and for the balance of $360,000 to be paid by 40 equal half-yearly instalments of $9,000, with interest at 5 per cent. It was also set out 'in the Act that the land shall at all times be used as and for a site for a market and for other municipal purposes.

The area of 50 acres described in the schedule to the 1956 Act was later amended to 49 aores 2 roods 23 perches by the West Melbourne Market Land (Amendment) Act 1961, No. 6788. The reduction in area was brough't about by an alteration in location and the widening of the road which originally divided the market

site and was provided in the Metropolitan Planning Scheme as a secondary road to link Dyn'0n Road and Footsoray Road.

Because of the establishment of railway marshalling yards on the land north of the market site, it became necessary to move the proposed secondary road provi'sion on t'0 raHway land farther east, with the result that the section of road dividing the market site was no longer required for that purpose. The road intersecting the market area was therefore closed in 1966. It is proposed that this area of 2 acres 1 rO'0d 28 perches of former road, as indicated by hatching on the plan in the schedule to this Bill, shall be included in the land for which a Crown grant will issue to the Melbourne City Councn in accordance with the provisions of the West Melbourne Market Land Act 1956, No. 5993.

Since 1964, negotiations have been in progress between the Department of Agriculture and the Melbourne City Council with a view to providing an area of about 3 acres on which the department could set up a fruit and vegetable inspection depot within the market area. A mutually acceptable location for this depot has now been arranged in the position indicated by cross-hatching on the plan in the schedule. The Bill makes provision whereby the inspection depot site of 2 acres 3 roods 39 perches is deleted from the land in course of purchase by the council under the pr'0visi'0ns of Act 1956, No. 5993.

It was originally anticipated that the depot site would be located with an abultal to Fooiscray Road, but, as the depot will now be situated adjacent to the raHhead on the north of the market sHe, it is necessary to pvovide access to the depot site by a carriageway easement over a strip of the market site 50 feet wide, leading from Footscray Road and running parallel to and abutting the eastern boundary of the depot site.

208 West Melbourne Market [ASSEMBLY.] Lqn.d (A.mendment) Bill.

As the depot area, which will again become unaHenated Orown land, exoeeds by 2 roods 11 perches the area of a former road which is being added to the market site, it is necessary to make a monetary adjustment in favor of the Melbourne City Council. This figure has been assessed at $12,333. It is proposed that, subject to the passing of the Bill, this amount will be paid by the Treasurer of Victoria to the Melbourne City Council. By that monetary adjustment being made, no amendm'ent will be required to the financial provisions of the West Melbourne Market Land Act 1956, No. 5993, under which the council is paying the purchase price of the market land by' half-yearly instalments of $9,000.

The various· dealings previously referred to are covered by the ensuing provisions of the Bill, clause 1 of which cites the short title of the proposed enactment as the West M'elbourne Market Land (Amendment) Act 1970. Clause 2 makes provision, in sub-clause (1) thereof, whereby the area of 2 acres 1 :rood 28 perches of former road, as indicated by hatching on the plan in the schedule, is included in the land for which a Crown grant in fee simple will be issued in the name of the Lord Mayor, councillors and citizens of the City of Melbourne, when the council completes the payment of the sum of $400,000 to the Crown, as provided in the 1956 Act, No. 5993.

By the provisions of sub-clause (2) of clause 2, the area of 2 acres 3 roods 39 perches, indicated by crossha tching on the plan in the schedule, will revert to its former status of unalienated land of the Crown, and will be made available to the Department of Agriculture for development as a fruit and vegetable inspection depot.

By sub-clause (3), the existing schedule to the West Melbourne Market Land Act 1956, No.5993, which was inserted in that Act by the West Melbourne Market Land (Amendment) Act 1961, No. 6788.

Mr. Borthwick.

will be replaced by the plan description of the area of 49 acres 12 perches to be g~a~ted t,o the Melbourne City Council in accordance· with the provisions. of Act No. 5993. The lastmentioned Act provides that the Crown grant to the M'elbourne City Council will be issued subject to such conditions, covenants and restrictions as the Governor in Council thinks fit, and clause 3 of the present proposed enactment ensures that the land, which has been excluded from the land to be granted to the council, will be provided with access from Footscray Road.

Clause 4 makes provision for the Treasurer of Victoria to pay to the city council the amount of $12,333 as monetary adjustment for the net area of 2 roods 11 perches by which the market site is being reduced. Clause 5 provides for consequential amendments which are required to be made to the M'elbourne Wholesale Fruit and Vegetable M:arket Act 1968, No. 7760.

Paragraph (a) of the clause substitutes an amended definition of " market land" in sub-section (1) of section 2 of Act No.7760, and paragraph (b) makes provision for inclusion in that Act of a schedule which defines by plan the present extent of the land which is deemed to be " market land " for the purposes of the Melbourne Wholesale Fruit and Vlegetable Market Act 1968, No. 7760. The land so defined covers an area of 52 acres 3 roods 8 perches which, honorable members will note, includes the area of 15 acres 7 perches which was sold by the Crown to the M'elbourne City Council in accordance with the provisions of the West Melbourne Lands Act 1968, No. 7710, and 37 acres 3 roods 1 perch of the land in course of sale to the Melbourne City Council by the provisions of the West Melbourne Market Land in the 1956 Act, No. 5993.

The schedule to the Bill shows by hatching the area of 2 acres 1 rood 28 perches of former road which, by sub-clause (1) of clause 2, is proposed

Soldier [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Settlement Bill. 209

to be included in the land for which a Crown grant will issue to the Melbourne City Council under the provisions of the original West Melbourne Market Land Act, No. 5993, of 1956.· The area of 2 acres 3 roods

39 perches indicated by cross-hatching on . the plan in the schedule is the land which, by the provisions of subclause (2) of clause 2, will become available for development by the Department of Agriculture as a fruit and vegetable inspection depot. I commend the Bill to the House.

On the motion of Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park), the debate was adjourned.



Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).If required, will the Minister agree to an extension of the period of adjournment for one week?

M'r. BORTHWlcK.-Certainly.

The motion was agreed to, and it . was ordered that the debate be adjourned until Wednesday, September 23.

SOLDIER SETTLEMENT BILL. Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of

Soldier Settlement) .-1 move-That this Bill be now read a second time.

All of the provisions of this measure are important, and several of them have been included to honour an undertaking given to soldier settlers in the Government's policy speech prior to the recent elections.

Under the Soldier Settlement Act there were two forms of settlement. One scheme catered for the person who paid a deposit with his own money on a farm of his own choosing and was granted a loan under the single unit farm provisions of the Soldier Settlement Act. The loan was secured by a first mortgage which provided for 2 per cent interest and generally a 55-year repayment term. In cases where there was a

limited life to the asset, such as an orchard property, the term may have been 35 years, but this would be the minimum term of any loan under this scheme.

. Under the other form of settlement the Soldier Settlement Commission, the predecessor of the present Rural Finance and Settlement Commission, acquired alienated land or set apart Crown land which it subsequently developed and subdivided into farms. The commission arranged for the erection of houses, all essential shedding' and other improvements necessary for the soldier settler to commence production. These soldier settlers occupied their holdings initially under a temporary lease and an interim lease but after a period of three to four years were granted a purchase lease of their holding. This lease fixed the capital liability for the farm and provided for payment of 'interest at 2 per cent per annum and principal at 1 per 'cent peT annum, which gave .a repayment period of 55 years.

In view of the concessions which were granted under the legislation for both forms of settlement, there were requirements either in the Act or in the lease or mortgage documents that the settler would reside on and personally work the farm and, in the case of the single unit farmer, that . he would not engage in any employment except in relation to his farm. In addition to these requirements, there were also restrictions on leasing, sharefarming, mortgaging and transferring or otherwise negotiatjing the 2 pe'r cent money which had been granted to the soldier settler. In other words, the 2 per cent interest wals a peI"sona'l concession available whilst the settler compli'ed w.ith all the obligations associated with the 2 per cent money.

Some years ago it became apparent that many soldier settlers were wanting to do a wide variety of things, many of which were not possible under the requirements of their lease, their mortgage or the Act.

210 Soldier [ASSEMBLY.] Settlement Bill.

The Government consulted with and obtained the concurrence of the Returned Services League to amending legislation to meet such a situation following which Parliament enacted section 67 A and sub-section (2) of section 86 of the Soldier Settlement Act. Section 67 A allowed a purchase lessee to obtain a special Crown grant of his farm with the liability secured by a mortgage at long term Commonwealth bond rate of interest, repayable over twenty years. Sub-section (2) of section 86 enabled a single unit farmer to apply for refinance with a new mortgage at long-term bond rate instead of the 2 per cent interest applicable under hjs original mortgage.

I "mention these matters as background because some settlers in the present economic clim,ate have indicated their desires to supplement their incomes with outside work but find difficulty in complying with the 'terms of their leases or mortgages if they do so. One of the amendments proposed under the Bill will remove any fears in tbi1s regard. The Government has not seen its way clear to allow a settler to retain hi,s 2 per cent money whilst he move's to live and work in Melbourne but does make provision in the BiU to allow a settler discretion to take local employment. Thi's provi'sion was foreshadowed in the Government's policy 'speech.

Clause 3 of the Bill inserts into the Soldier Settlement Act a new se"ction 107. Proposed sub-section (1) of section 107 provides that a soldier settler may at his discretion engage in employment within his district without thi's action being regarded as a breach of the Soldier Settlement Act, his Ilease or his mortgage, provided that he continues to. reside on and personally work his soldier settlement holding. This provision will enable the settler who, because of falling price's and other problems facing men 'On the land tbday, finds it necessary to supplement hi,s income from the farm with outside employment during his s'lack periods or during 'such periods as he can afford off

Mr. BorfJh"wick.

his farm without le'ssening "the proper "management of the farm, to take a local job without being in breach of his le,ase or his mortgage.

Sub-'section (2) of propo'sed section 107 makes provis'ion for the consent of the comm'iss'ion to be given to the widow of a settler or mortgagor who has succeeded to the rights and liabilities of the settler or mortgagor under his will to reside off the farm provided that ,she personally manages and controls the land. Thi's provision wHI be of assistance to those widows who in the pa'st have been re"quired under their leases or mortgages to reside on the f.arm although this sometimes created difficulties in employing a manager or labour which they could more easily do if they could live in a nearby town and make the farm residence available to their employee or other married member of the family.

In addition to these two new provisions it is proposed under the amending legis'lation to. improve the present provi'Sions which relate to the situation where a 'Soldier settler dies and under his will or the process of law the property passes to a number of membe~s of hi,s family. The Act at present provides that where a 'Soldier settler dies his widow or his child m"ay 'Succeed to his rights and obligations. This has meant that where the soldier settler has devised the farm to the widow or a child and the commi's's'1on has been sati'Sfied as to the beneficiary"s capacity to manage the farm and to carry on the farming activities, the purchase lease has been transferred to the widow or to the child without vadation in the conditions, particularly the 2 per cent interest rate. However, where a dece1ased s'ettler'ls e'State, including a settlement holding, has been left to a fairly wide variety of beneficiaries among whom i,s a member of the immediate family who wilshes 'to continue on the farm, difficulties have arisen and lit ha'S often meant that the one who stays on the farm has lost the benefit of the 2 per cent money because the other beneficiaries

Soldier [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Settlement Bill. 211

either cannot comply with the te'rm's of the lease or mortgage or 'seek a realization of the estate to the detriment Qif the f'amHy member wi!shing to stay on the farm.

The intentions of settlers as stated in their wills are many and varied and it is not the Governm'ent's desire that settlers should have anything less than complete freedom to express their wi'shes as to the distribution of their as'set's in the'ir wills. It is appreciated that lif la settler endeavou~s to arrange his affairs in an attempt to retain the 2 per cent money for his family he may be restricted under the present legisla1:iion a's to the manner in which he can bequeath his estate. It 'i's proposed to insert in the Soldier Settle'ment Act a new section which will provide that where one or more members of the immediate family, that is, the widow or children, wish to continue to manage the farm, those family members will be able to retain the benefit of the 2 per cent interest as to that proportion of the capital liability to the commission that their interest in the farm under the will bears to the total value of the farm. In respect of the balance of the liability, namely, the proportion applicable to the other beneficiaries who are not going to live on or be involved in running the farm, the amendment provides that interest shall be payable at the same rate as is payable under section 67 A of the Act.

An illustration of what is intended by the new section is that if the deceased settler's estate including the farm is left as to two-thirds to the son and as to one-third to the daughter and the son wishes to carry on the farm whilst the daughter is married and living elsewhere, the new arrangements will enable the son and daughter to execute a mortgage to the commission which will secure the capital liability and provide for interest at the rate of 2 per cent on two-thirds of the debt and at, say, 6 per cent on one-third of the debt. In due course, if he so wished, the son could buyout his sister's interest without jeopardizing his share of the 2 per cent money.

,In drafting this amendment it has been necessary to cover both the case of the soldier settler under purchase lease in respect of a general settlement holding and the single unit farmer who was assisted with a loan to buy a farm of his own choice. In the case of the settler who, at his death, occupied his land under a purchase lease, the amendment will provide for a special Crown grant to be issued with a first mortgage to secure the balance of liability that would have otherwise been payable, such mortgage to provide for payment at 2 per cent and at section 67 A interest rate for the various proportions of the capital liability. In the case of the single unit farmer whose land is already freehold, it has been necessary to make provision for a further advance at the varying interest rates to repay the original advance with a fresh mortgage being taken along similar lines to that to be executed by the beneficiaries of the deceased purchase lessee. In both cases the term of the new mortgages will be the balance of the term which would have otherwise prevailed in respect of the original lease or the original mortgage, as the case may be.

In dealing with this matter it has been necessary to make provision to cover situations where the will left the farm to individuals in specified shares and to cover also the case where no specific reference to the farm was made in the will but, rather, the will directed that the total assets of the deceased be shared amongst his beneficiaries. Because of the many and varied ways in which a settler may leave his estate and express his will, there could be different yardsticks in determining the ratio on which the 2 per cent interest rate is to apply. Because of this, subsection (3) of proposed section 106 has been drafted to fix the proportion as being the higher of-

(a) the ratio that the specified interest of the beneficiary who will live on and work the farm has in the farm under the will of the deceased settler; or

212 : Soldier [ASSEMBLY.] Settlement Bill.

(b) the interest that the beneficiarywho will live on the farm has in the total estate of the 'deceased settler.

I reiterate that where a soldier settler devises his farm to his widow or child solely, the full benefit of the 2 per cent money will continue to pass to the wido.w or chil~ as at present if they wIsh to contInue to run the farm.

There is another group of soldier settlers who will be assisted by the Bill. This is the group who for a variety of reasons wish to be relieved of all the restraints· associated with the 2 per cent money, whether it be available under lease or under mortgage. As 1 mentioned earlier, legislative provisions were made some years ago for this group of ex-servicemen settlers by granting 'accommodation at the long-term Commonwealth bond rate and freeing them from the restraints applicable to 2 per cent. money. Many soldier settlers in this category are those who lease their farms on a long-term basis and, in effect discontinue their personal farmi~g operations.

Up to the current financial year, the settler who elected to go onto the long-term bond interest rate was paying a rate which was better than those rates available from the majority of lending authorities, but with the recent increase in the Commonwealth bond rate, the interest rate for soldier settlers wishing to follow this course has risen from 5.4 per cent per annum in 1969-70 to 7 per cent for the current year. Whilst the 7 per cent interest rate is probbably better than is available elsewhere, it is considered to be too high for the settler who wishes to be freed from the restrictions of the lease or the mortgage, particularly in the light of the deterioration of the economic situation of primary producers. Accordingly, the Bill proposes to allow the Treas~rer to have discretion in fixing the Interest rate to be payable on mortgages under the section 67 A and on refinance mortgages under sub-section (2) of

Mr. Borbhwick.

section 86. This amendment provides that interest to be fixed in these cases may still be related to the long-term bond rate as it is the upper limit fixed under the new amendmEmt, but it will not be necessary mandatorily to follow the upward trend as in the past.

It is the intention of the Government, while rates are at current levels, to fix the rates payable under the new mortgages at 1 per cent lower than the long-term bond rate.' In other words, for the current year, the rate would be fixed at 6 per cent instead of 7 per cent a.s under the existing legislation. In considering these amendments to the Soldier Settlement Act, it has also been necessary to have regard to the Land Settlement Act, and it has been decided to bring the legislation applying to the two forms of settl~ment in line on this aspect. ThIS will be done by providing that under the Land Settlement Act the Treasurer shall have the discretion to fix the interest rate from time to time provided that it does not exceed the long-term. bond rate. At present, the Land Settlement· Act provides that the rate shall not be higher than 5 per cent.

1 should li~e to make it clear that there will be no reduction in the rates of interest payable to settlers. When settlers make special repayments over and above their fixed instalments, the payments 'are credited to special accounts and these will continue to be credited each year with interest at the long-term bond rate prevailing from time to time. 1 commend the Bill to the House ..

On the motion of Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park), the debate was adjourned.

Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of Lands) .-1 . move-

That the debate be adjourned until Wednesday, September 30.

1 have moved for an adjournment of the debate for two weeks, but I give a firm assurance to honorable members, because of the legal complexities

Governor's Speech :. [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Address-in-Reply. 21~

of the Bill, that a further extension of time will be arranged if honorable members are not ready to proceed on that date.

The motion was agreed to~ and the debate was adjourned until Wednesday, S~ptember 30.


GOVERNOR'S SPEECH.

AOORESS-IN -REPLY.

The debate (adjourned from June 17) 'On the motion of M'r. J. A. Taylor (Gippsland South) for the adoption of an Address-in-Reply to the Governor's Speech wa's resumed.

Mr. FORDHAM (Footscray).-On behalf of the Opposition, I have much pleasure in endorsing the sentiments of 'l'Oyalty to the Crown and expressions of thanks t'0 the Governor for hilS Speech :uo Padiament S'O ably moved by the honorable member for Gippsland South and seconde~ by the honorable member for Gippsland West. I am conscious of the privilege extended to myself and to the electors of Foot'scray, whom I have the honour to represent, on being able to lead on behalf of the Opposition an important debate which allows a whole-hearted and full scrutiny of areas of community concern and areas where Government initiativ.e is needed.

I am deeply conscious of the great Parliamentary traditions upon which this House has been founded and developed over the years. These traditions make Parliament the guardian of our democratic way of life', and sh'Ould ensure that our society is free from poMtical, social and econ'Omic repression. As a fervent be}.iever in de'mocra'cy, I give my assurance,s to this House that I will ,do all that I can to ensure that Parliament retains its pOSition in society. Parliament should be the ark of democracy and it ~s up to ·members OJf .this H'Ouse to ensure that it perform's that role.

If Parliament is tn reialin the position which is given to it by the population of this State, and which is H:s right under the C'Onstitution, I believe it will need t'O relate itself far more to the issues which the people of this society see as being relevant to them. I believe the Government has failed to do this and it is up to Parliament and ParHamentadans Ito res'tore this positi'On. In thi,s regard, the 'Government must give leadership by relating itself to the problems of the community. Members of the Opposition will do all they can to fulfil their important role in the Parliamentary process. We assure members of the Government and the publ~c alike that we will bring forward the issues of great concern to our society and we will expose what we feel to be Government weaknesses and lack of initiative.

The theme of my bf1ief address foHowls :that introduced by the seconder of the motion, the honorable member for Gippsland West. I refer to the concepts of loyalty and alienation. These are very real and important matters which Parliament should discuss and I am thankful to' the honorable membelr for introducing them. These principles are of great concern and significance because many people in our society find themselves in a position where they are claimed not to have loyalty to our institutions and to be alienated or estranged from their fellow man.

This is not surprising because it does not take long in a scrutiny of past measures and past performances t'O ascertain that the Government has effectively alienated or estranged large segments of our ,community. I am not referring only to the jibes which we have heard recently, both before and since the elecb~ons, with regard to groups such as teachers, conservationists and nurses; I am referring to a far wider proportion of the population.

It is my contention that the discord and disharmony which is so evident in our society today is a result of the failure of our social institutions

214 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY. ] Address-in-Reply.

to adjust to our changing society, and it is my further contention that the Government, and by association the Parliament, must bear responsibility for its failure to relate to the problem of people feeling alienated and estranged from our developing society. This estrangement is related not simply to university undergraduates or narrow sectional groups -it is far wider and far more significant than this-but to the young and the aged, the worker and the migrant, people living in poverty, and students. These are but some examples, and I should like to discuss this matter at a little more length.

I have no intention at .this Istage of going into the many problems which beset our education system in Victoria. Undoubtedly, other speakers will canvass these particular matters. All honorable members know of the vast problems caused by the shortage of teachers, school buildings, and equipment; however, there are two other aspects of education in Victoria which I wish to discuss.

I believe an indictment was levelled at the Government recently when the Victorian Universities Admissions Com'mittee announced that owing to the quota IS)11ste'm which is now operating-a system which is a direct result of Governm·ent linactivity-4,116 qualified matriculants had been refused entry to Victorian universities. I might add that this is an increase on the previous year, when the number refused admission was 2,125.

When a teacher shortage exists, it is a mockery of the educational position today to accept this as satisfactory. In fact, the Victorian Universi~ies Admils'~ions CommiUee admitted that of the 1,200 persons expected to apply for Bachelor of Education and Diploma of Education courses at universities this year, only 1,000 could be admitted because of the shortage of places.

The second aspect of the educational problem that I wish to raise is that relating to educational opportunity, a matter which has

Mr. Fordham.

recently been brought to my attention. After examining statistics and research that has been undertaken in this field, I contend that for anyone to assert that equal educational opportunity exists in Victoria today is to utter a myth. For example, geographical location is becoming a criterion of the sort of education a child is receivingpersons in inner suburban areas and in certain rural areas are not receiving the education which is their due. There is also a tremendous problem of migrant children being deprived of proper education. The economic potential of parents is becoming a factor, and children of parents on lower incomes are not receiving the educational opportunity which should be theirs of right. Statistics indicate clearly that the theory of equal opportunity is not working out in practice. Children are not being educated to the optimum of their ability and this can only be termed as a disgrace.

In hils Speech at the opening of Parliament on the 15th June, 1955, His Excellency the Governor statedIn accordance with its policy of providing full educational facilities for all children, the Government will give the highest priority to the building of schools and the training of teachers. After a period of fifteen years, we find the present situation in Victoria for which surely the Government can be indicated.

Another matter which further highlights, that groups of people are being estranged and alienated from the mainstream of 'Society 'i'S the issue of housing. Once again, it is clear that the Government's housing policies have failed to meet the needs of the community.

On 31'St December last year, the Housing Commils'Sion reported that 15,356 applications for home purchase were out$tanding. Surely this is not a satisfactory situation. Recent Istud-iels 'show that high rents paid by people in the low-income group constitute a major factor causing poverty; again this is unsa tisfactory.

Governor's Speech: [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Address-in-Reply. 215

The present situation of a five-year wait before an applicant for a Housing Commission home 'can be accommodated cannot be accepted. What does one tell 'a family who wiant a hom~that they must have five children to get the house they are longing for, otherwrse they must wait five yeafls?

The Government, through his Excellency's Speech, expres'sed its intention of ensuring the growth of family welfare and the care of the needs of families. Great difficulty ex,ists in the sphere of housing. I am well aware of the great social and financial difficulties encountered by young people on low incomes who are trying to bridge the well-known deposit gap in an endeavour to purchaise their own homes. As a matter of paramount urgency the Government should purchase large tracts of land, subdivide them, develop them, and make the blocks available to people at the lowest possible cost.

I should also like to discuss the problems of kindergartens in our society. The Significance of preschool education as an essential element in the full development of a chUd has long been recognized by educationists and child care expert's. What is the situation in Victoria? The report of the V'ictorian Branch of fue Australian Pre-School As'sociation estimates that of 70,000 children who begin schoOil in Victoria each year only 50 per cent .have had one year !at a pre-school centre. Can honorable membeI'ls say that thi,s is a satisfactory ,situation?

Other problems concerned with pre-schoo'l education include a tremendous 'shortage of qualified staff. The voluntary organizations that have carried the burden of pre-school education fOT so long are now in great financial difficulty because of the greatly increased demand that has been made upon their 'services. Recent research and analysis suggest that "capacity to pay" is becoming a grea,ter factor in determining whether a child will receive satis-

factory pre-school education. That is a pI'lincipie of w.hich I should Hke no part.

I should also like to highlight the plight of nurses. For far too long nurses, with their unparalleled sense of duty and concern for suffering mankind, have had to carry a burden that should not have been their lot. The burden should have been carried by a far greater proportion of our society. This has inevitably resulted in a grave shortage of nurses and ha'salsocaused the morale of the profes,sion to fall and nUI'lsing standa'rds to decline. In recent years thi,s has been readily acknowledged by the Royal Victorian CoHege of NUl'Ising. Negotiations with the Government lin an attempt to improve standards in the interelst of the who'le of the community have led to nothing but frustration, and a call by the nurses for the resignation of the former Mini'ster of Health.

I also refer to the road toll in Victoria. In 1969, 1,011 Victorians were killed on the roads and 23,797 persons were injured. Over the years this casualty figure has been steadily increasing and the early figures for 1970 suggest that the situation has not altered. Obviously this is a matter of great concern, and there is a need for tremendous research into questions relating to drivers, roads and vehicles. Part of this important work has been undertaken by the Road Safety Committee, which has submitted a number of reports to the Parliament. What have been the results of its efforts? On two major issues, motor vehicle inspection and seat belts, the committee's recommendations were not accepted by the Government. The committee suggested that the present system of spot checks was inadequate and recomm'ended an annual in'Spection of vehicles to overcome the tremendous toll 'Of death iand injury on the roads. The Govern'ment did not adopt the recommenda tions.

The com'mittee further 'suggested ~hat the Government ,should take the initiative and direct that drivers of vehicles owned by Government

216 Governor?s Speech: [ASSEMBLY.] Address-in-Reply.

departments and instrumentalities should be compeUed to wear seat belts. Once again a major attempt to reduce the road toll was rejected.

The subterfuge which the Government has adopted as an excuse for not facing up to its responsibilities is unsa tisfactory Commonwealth:-Sta te financial relations, and in particular the intransigence of the Commonwealth Government has been blamed. I am one of the fi'rst to a'cknowledge the tremendous problems now facing the Government, but it is the authority in this State responsible for negotiating with the Commonwealth Government. It must bear the responsibility for its admitted failure over the past fifteen years to achieve just rewards for Victoria. This point has been included in the Budget speech every year. In his 1969-70 Budget speech, the Premier and Treasurer said-

Nothing could illustrate more dramatically-and yet more simplY--Jthe wholly unsatisfactory financial position of the States as against the affluence of the Commonwealth. Nothing could underline wi'th greater emphasis that this problem of State and CommonweaHh financ'ial relationships is the challenge of the 1970's. This indeed is the great challenge to be faced up ,to and met during the course of this the financial year 1969-70, for it so happens that this year sees the end of the five-year period covered by the present Commonweal'th legislation dealing with tax reimbursement grants.

The honorable gentleman then added-

The impossibility of the pos'ition of the Sta1tes is well understood.

However, once again the result was failure. There a're some that hold that this growth of Commonwealth power at the expense of the States is desirable. I subscribe to the opposite view. I support the views of our founding fathers embodied in the Commonwealth Constitution. The issues are not :simply finanoial but relate to the question of which level of government should be responsible to administer particular aspects of activities of the people of Victoria. In this regard I am a determined Federalist and will do all ,in my power to 'achie:v~ tll'at principle.

Mr. Fordham.

The power of the' Commonwealth is growing because of its financial strength and a consequent erosion of the power of the States. The situation is even worse at the level of local government. I assure honorable members that I will strive to restore to the people of Victoria and the Parliament of this State their rights under the Commonwealth Constitution. I hope that, in the 1970's the Government will do as the Premier has said-it will give leadership to the community and ensure that these rights are restored.

These groups and aspects of our society that I have briefly mentioned are but a few of those that could be covered to demonstrate the tremendous problems that we face with the alienation of people from the Government of this State. As I have readily found in the brief time in which I have been a member of this Parliament, these are not merely hollow statistics or hollow statements. These are' real issues that are being faced by the people of the State, and many of them' have been brought to my attention. If the people to whom I have referred are the drop-outs of our society, and if they are the alienated, I am only too willing to identify myself with them, as I am sure will 'all members of the Opposition, and to work to overcome their problems.

I record my thanks to the people of Footscray for the great honor they have bestowed upon me in electing me to represent them in this Parliament and I shall do all in my power to further the interests of that community. I assure Parliament of my dedication to its work and look forward to workfng with honorable members on both sides of the House in advancing the interests of the people of Victoria.

Mr. KIRKWOOD (Preston).-I congratulate those honorable members who moved' and seconded the motion for the adoption of an Address-in-Reply to the Governor's Speech, and wish to be associated with their expressions of loyalty. I thank the electorate of Preston and

Governor's Speech :~ [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Address-in-Reply. 217

those who have supported me arid the platform I represent for the confidence that they have· shown in me. I feel sure that their confidence will be justified.

The people of Preston had a great regard for my predecessor in this House, who served the electorate well for fifteen years. However, Parliament has been lax in not providing honorable members with proper facilities with which to perform the work that is expected of them. As a back-bencher, I have been provided with three tables, two forms and a couple of filing cabinets in a common room. I imagined-and probably the people in my electorate also imagined -tha t I would be provided with a table, a telephone and a separate room. I suggest that at an early stage action should be taken to ensure that all honorable members are given the facilities that are needed for them to undertake their work in a satisfactory manner.

The Government also owes a responsibility to municipalities in the form of subsidies, but it is not as advanced as it might be in alleviating conditions of hardship which exist in the municipal field. Some honorable members may not appreciate the problems which face the Government in this regard. Recently in the premier city of the north-Preston-an elderly citizens' club was erected at a cost of $36,000. The citizens were appreciative of the $10,000 received from the Government, but the City of Preston had to pay $26,000.

At present, the City of Preston is considering the building of a municipal.library. The cost of acquiring a suitable site was $100,000, and it is expected that the building and furnishings will cost approximately $150,000. However, no subsidy or capital grant is available for a library. The council intends to establish a building for the use of all citizens in the area-a place where students may make use of a reference library and where tradesmen may use expensive volumes to assist them to understand the problems of their trades-but the

Government will not give one " razoo" towards the project. It might be argued that the Government has adopted the proper attitude to this question, but I have not heard this argument voiced and I doubt whether any honorable member would try to advance it.

In Preston, the work of erecting a day nursery is also in course. Again, the cost is substantial. The acquisition of a suitable site will cost $27,000. It may be said that that is a reasonable sum in an area such as Preston, but the money must be raised, and the cost of building is expected to be $45,000. In this instancet

the Government has granted a sum of $20,000, but the balance must be met by the ratepayers, again for a service which can be used by people who are not ratepayers. No one will disagree with that -because the children who will use the nursery cannot provide the money and the parents who usually use a day nursery are frequently in circumstances unlike those of honorable members of this House. Often, there is only one surviving parent, who must go to work in order to rear the family.

After a day nursery has been constructed, it must be maintained and operated. Certainly, the running costs could be much lower if a reasonable subsidy were provided by the Government. How can one nominate a suitable figure to charge a person who earns only $30 a week and has enrolled children at a day nursery? I would not care to adjudicate on a fee for such a person. If I happened to have the power, I should give more aid to local councils because they need it. If it gives further consideration to the matter, the Government may be a little more liberal to municipalities than it has been in the past.

Probably one of the biggest bug~ bears in all municipalities is the provision of traffic lights. Efforts are being made to reduce the road toll and statements appear in the press on the need to install pedestrian and

218 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY.] Address-in-Reply.

other types of traffic lights throughout municipalities. Last year, the City of Preston obtained no subsidy for this work although fourteen sets of traffic lights were approved by the Traffic Commission. The council received a letter stating that, if it was prepared to complete the whole operation and pay for it, that would be in order so far as the State Government was concerned. The city which I represent in this House is not prepared to do this because it considers that the State Government has an obligation to the taxpayers in the City of Preston as much as it has to the ratepayers, and I agree with that view.

So far as municipal contributions to the Metropolitan Fire Brigades Board are concerned, the Government',s view might be changed if i,t;s members studied the report of the commission of inquiry in 1962 which suggested that the contribution by municipalities should be reduced to one-eighth. As honorable members are aware, municipalities now pay one-third, the insurance companies pay two-thirds and the State Government, which slid out from under a few years ago, makes no contribution. I have read the report of the 1962 commission of inquiry, which is an enlightening document. Last year, the City of Preston's contribution was increased by 22 per cent. I have the figures in my possession; they are well documented and factual. According to the law of this State, if the municipal council does not pay its contribution to the Metropolitan Fire Brigades Board by a certain date the municipality may be fined $80 per day; this is for a service for which the municipality receives no subsidy.

The limit on !subsidies paid to municipal 'counciLs ·should be reviewed. As I mentioned previously, ·the Government subsidy for facilities for elderly citizens has a limit of $10,000 and that for a day nursery $20,000. The Government subsidy for a home help service is $48 per fortnight for the staff's wage bill. The municipality which I represent has to pay $80 per

Mr. Kirkwood.

f.ortnight for thi's service. Incidentally, the City of Preston employs 60 per:sons on this service, which is probably one of the 'largest staffs in 'the metropolitan area. It cannot be denied that the home help service 'i,s one of the most important amenities which a municipality can provide. The persons employed by the council visit homes where the residents are not able to do the work themselves; they cook meals, make beds and assist the elderly. The Government, which professes to be liberal, should act more liberally in this regard, and I trust that when the Cabinet is next considering the various subsidies it will be 'more generous in its attitude towards the municipalities of Melbourne.

Street lighting is another facility which is provided by the ratepayers. So far as I am aware-I am assured that this is correct-no Government subsidy is paid to municipalities towards the cost of street lighting in main roads. As honorable members who are interested in municipal affairs will be aware, the Municipal Association of Victoria considers that municipalities which have main roads within their boundaries should receive financial assistance towards the cost of street lighting. I contend that, in regard to both capital costs and operating expenses, the State Government should pay two-thirds, leaving the municipalities to pay onethird.

I hope that what I have said tonight will begin to wear away the rock and that residents of municipalities who are also ratepayers throughout the State will be treated more equitably. If this is done, my life will be much easier because I assure you, Mr. Speaker, that the vast majority of the persons whom I represent have difficulty in meeting the commitments which are imposed on them as ratepayers because subsidies to municipalities have not kept pace with the rising cost of living. I trust that sooner or later this injustice will be rectified.

Governor's Speech: [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Address-in-Rep/y. 219

Mr. FELL (Greensborough).-I am pleased to have this opportunity of speaking to the motion for the adoption of an Address-in-Reply to the Speech of His Excellency the Governor. I wish to thank the electors of Greensborough who have entrusted me with the problems of the electorate for the next three years. I believe that my actions in that period will achieve more than anything I say this evening.

At the outset, I wish to state lny views on Parliamentary democracy. In particular, I consider that every member of this Parliament should have an opportunity to express his views, irrespe:ctive of whether he i1s amember 'Of a major party, a member of a minor party or an independent. He should always have the opportunity to express himself, and from my brief experience in this House I consider that you, Mr. Speaker, safeguard the interests of all honorable members in this regard; I thank you personally for adopting this attitude.

It is essential in a community that there should be no inequality of opportunity between individuals and I propose to discuss several aspects of our society in which I consider that there is definite inequality of opportunity from the time of the birth of a child until it reaches adulthood. I shall refer at length to many of the items and cite as examples cases in my own electorate. The matters to which I propose to refer are causing State wide and even nation wide problems.

I shall start with the facilities that are provided, allegedly by the Government but actually by the municipalities, from the birth of the child. Through the goodwill of municipalities pre-natal clinics, pre-school centres and infant welfare centres are provided. I agree that the Government subsidizes the municipalities to enable them to provide these facilities, but I can well remember a municipality which built a centre in 1953 at a cost of $18,000 receiving a subsidy of $4,500. A similar centre

built today would cost $41,000, which is an increase in cost of 230 per cent. It would be reasonable to assume that the subsidy paid by the Government to the municipality would increase proportionately, but that is not so. The subsidy for such a centre today would be only $6,000, which is an increase of only 33 per cent. However, I do not intend to bore the House with figures and from now on I shall dwell on the philosophies.

The inequalities to which I previously referred are very much evident in the area in which one is fortunate or unfortunate to live. I could quote examples from Camberwell, Diamond Valley or the inner suburbs. The quality of the facilities that are available depends on the affluence of the community and the ability of the municipality to raise rates. The services that are provided for children should not depend on the circumstances in which a particular community lives. Children have a natural entitlement to these services and their availability should not depend on the ability of a local governing authority to provide them.

I have referred to the birth of the child, pre-school centres and infant welfare centres, the subsidies available for these facilities and the inability 'of some communities to provide adequate services, but I have not mentioned the fact that if a child's parents are sufficiently affluent he will enter the world at a disadvantage. A child can enter the world merely with the services of a mid-wife-admittedly that is rare today-but it is more common for a child to be born at a private hospital because the facilities of public hospitals are not available to everyone. A person who is earning slightly more than the basic wage is not entitled to use the facilities of a public hospital. In these days most newly born babies remain in hospital only for four days, but if the parents can afford it they can stay for a fortnight, which is the period most honorable members would have remained in hospital when they were babies.

220 Governor's Speech: [ASSEMBLY.] Address-in-~ep~y.

Pre-school facilities are available to few people in the community and this is to be regretted because a child of pre-school age is· in its most receptive mood. I am sure the Minister of Education will agree that a child who is old enough to enter a pre-school centre is more receptive to any type of learning at that stage than at any other stage in its life. Unfortunately, only those children whose parents can afford to contribute financially towards the cost of establishing and running pre-school cent'res have the opportunity of attending these centres.

I am concerned about those children who do not have this opportunity, because they start off at primary school at a disadvantage. I am sure that statement will be substantiated by school teachers or hy anyone else interested in education.

I move now to those children who, through no fault of their own, have only one parent. These children either miss out entirely on a preliminary education or if they are fortunate they are ac:commodated in a day nursery. .What type of day nursery do the· fortunate ones g'O to? Invariably it is a privately-owned day nursery or one similar to the establishment in North Melbourne. The centre at North Melbourne caters expressly for children with single parents. This centre not . only looks after the children but also looks after the family by trying to keep its members together as a family unit. I am most impressed by that thought in connection with this centre, but I am concerned tha t there are so few of these centres throughout Melbourne and the suburbs. The same position probably applies throughout the State. I am certain that honorable members who think about this for the first time will be equally concerned and I hope it. will not be the last time they will think about it. 'Children with a single parent are more entitled to help than anyone else because they' start life under a grave handicap. How can a widower cope in such circum~ stances, particularly if there are no facilities which he can use? He can

Mr. Fell.

get his children accepted at private day nurseries only if he can afford it. The situation becomes critical if there are three or four children in the family.

I believe I have emphasized this subject sufficiently, but in case I have omitted to make some points relating to the various stages of a child's life honorable members should infer that I believe' this State has a major role t'O play in providing for children the various services to which I refer. If the Government wants to delegate authorlity for providing these facilities to a lower authority, such as a municipal council, it should ensure that that other authority is responsible only for the administration of the centres and is free of all other encumbrances and insurmountable financial obstacles.

I shall now refer to primary education. in the life of a child. This is the stage where there can be an extremely marked difference between the lives of various children. At this stage a child may have the choice of receiving education in either the private sector or the public sector. The expression" public school education" is the greatest misnomer I have ever heard. For a person to say that he has been to a public school in my opini'on should mean that he has attended one 'Of the State's educational institutions. It ils entirely wrong to refer to priva:te schoo}s a'S public 'schools.

I intend to refer firstly to the difference between private schools and what I call public schools. It is fair to say that students in the State education system are at a marked disadvantage compared with those in private schools, in both standards of teaching and' buildings and class sizes. It would also be a fair statement. that the permanent buildings in use in the State education system are more comfortable than portable classrooms,- which are like -dog boxes. Unfortunately, inferior accommodation of. this type is invariably pro .. vided wherever there is ov,erc.rowding. There appear,. therefore, to be three standards. of education in. this State.

Governor's· Speech : [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] . Address-in-R~ply. 221

In an affluent area, which doe's not have a significant rate of development, there are fewer problems than, in outer suburban areas, such as the Greensborough electorate in which I live, where the population is increasing at a rate exceeding 10 per cent per annum. The electoral enrolments in this area, if I might be excused for referring to a parochial matter, highlight the marked increase in population and show that a fourth standard of education, which is causing alarm in my electorate, and probably in other areas, is now becoming evident. I refer to the fact that educational facilities will be inadequate at the start of the next school year.

An examination revea'ls that, in one area-Watsonlia-the enrolments at two associated primary schools are 964 and 826 pupils respectively. In addition, rapid housing development is evident; in fact, more than 450 homes are at present in the course of construction. No new primary school is being built in this area although the local residents have been assured that one will be provided for the start of the next school year. However, plans for the new school do not exist on the drawing board. I have referred to the inequalities of the standards of education in the primary schools.

I shall now deal with the reall problem. Obviously, a crisis exists in education, more particularly in secondary education. This is espeCially noticeable in my electorate. It is emphasized by the noise that is being created in Parliament, in local newspapers, in the municipalities, in the national press, and in the teaching profession.

In the Shire of Eltham in my electorate, 400 sixth grade students attend the primary schools which are located within the zone of the Eltham High School, and if enrolled at Eltham next year would cause a total enrolment of nearly 1,400 pupils. This is a ridiculous situation because the secondary school facilities cannot cope with so many new pupils. Obviously, another school, for which no

Session 1970.-10

plan exists, must virtually be plucked out of the air in a hurry, or alternatively, the existing school sites must be burdened with additionall prefabricated class-rooms. Neither of these alternatives is readily acceptable to this Parliament or to the people at large.

Better planning is urgently needed in secondary education. New schools are required and all schools must be properly staffed. I invite honorable members to examine some of the educational inequalities that exist. I shaH compare the Kew High SChool, which contains all up-to-date facilities, with the Eltham High School to emphasize the marked differences in school standards which exist. Eltham High School, which has grown like Topsy, contains everything, including prefabs, Bristolls and all types or temporary class-rooms. The situation at Eltham High School is typical of the position at many other secondary schools.

I wonder just what is the Education Department's plan for education. Is it to provide a standard of education under which equal facilities will be available for all children? This is not being done at present, as can be seen from a comparison of Eltham High School with new schools, such as Montmorency High School. In many new types of school buildings, blocks E and H, which are the canteen and library facilities, are being 'used as class-rooms. This is not in the best interests of the students; it certainly deprives them of the use of library facilities. The private schools have all the facilitiesgrounds, buildings and adequate staff ~that are needed in a good education system. Obviously, therefore, students attending private schools enjoy privileges which are not available at other schools.

I emphasize that not all of the facilities available in our secondary schools are provided by the State. As a member of a high school advisory council, ·1 know that the parents of scholars, by subscription~ through composite fees, are required

222 Governor~s Speech .' [ASSEMBLY.] Address-in-Reply.

to finance the provision of many educa~ional facilities. For many years, thIS system has been denounced as unconstitutional; it cannot be compulsorily imposed. However, I have personal knowledge that, during assembly at a certain school, a student was singled out because his parent, who was in receipt of an invalid pens/ion, was unable to pay the composite fee. The student was unable to take part in various school activities. The child left the school immediately to return home and, because the parent was not well enough to visit the school or have a telephone conversation with the principal, a couple of days elapsed before any action could be taken. I shall be' happy to supply details of this incident to the Minister of Education if he requires them.

I am sure the Minister will consider the possibility of introducing clerical assistance to relieve teachers of non-teaching duties. This suggestion has the acclaim of the education committee of the Labor Party, and, as I have had the opportunity of discussing it with them, I believe it has the backing of teacher organizations. I do not believe there is any good reason why it cannot be instituted at all stages of education. I t would _ largely relieve the present shortage of teachers. I realize that it would not correct that position completely, but I do not intend to elaborate on that pOint at the moment.

I turn now to study the disadvantageous positions in which many students find themselves when passing from a secondary education level to a tertiary level. I am sure that all honorable members will agree that the student who has matriculated and wishes to enter a university has a marked advantage. Of these students, it will 'be found that those wl-to have gone to a special coaching 'c011ege, because their parents have heen able to afford: it, 'possess a distinct advantage. That is· the first category of students. The' second

Mr. Fell.

category consists of students who have attended a private school. Since the quality of the staffing and the facilities at those schools are superior, those students have every chance of being able to pass, and to pass well. In their turn, they are at a definite advantage when compared with students who attend State schools.

The standards of State schools vary, according to their location. As was revealed in an answer to a question on notice in the House today, teaching staff show a marked preference for schools in the southeastern and southern suburbs of Melbourne; and if one looks at schools in the western suburbs one sees how different the situation is. It naturally follows that some inducement should be offered to lessen the inequalities which now exist.

There are three sets of standards in education, namely, those of the private coaching colleges, those of the public schools and those of schools within the State school system; but within the State school system there is such a variation in standards that even in schools within my electorate a very large percentage of students are entirely missing sections of their school life. This is because there are no teachers to teach them. Within my electorate there are serious gaps in the educational programmes of the McLeod High School, the Watsonia High School, the Montmorency High School, the Eltham High School, the Hurstbridge High School and the Watsonia Technical School. Each school has the same problem of having no teachers for some subjects.

My own children are at a disadvantage as a result of this shortage of teachng staff. When I married, I knew that I must become interested in politics, because I believed it was useless to bring children into the world unless I was interested in making the world a better place in which to live; I realize, however, that irrespective of the political party to which they

Governor's Speech: [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Address-in-Reply. 223

belong, that is a problem which faces all honorable members of this House. The question is: Do we intend to meet this problem, or do we intend to sit here complacently and say, "It is all right, old fellow, we will get through "? Is that the attitude which we should adopt? Will the House adopt that attitude, or will it seek to review the situation and not blame others for its own lack of endeavour?

I now turn to what I contend is the next stage in education, namely, adult education and re-education. Obviously there is a need for adult education and re-education in view of the vast changes that have taken place in the whole concept of our living over recent years. Those. changes have led to a complete· reorganiza tion of thinking, and the progress of science has introduced many innovations; even the use of the pill took much understanding throughout the world.

There is need for a reappraisal of our standards. What are we looking for? Are we to say to people, " Whether you like it or not you will be educated only to the standard which you can afford and you wiH then fall into the niche which matches your ability"?, or are we to make full use of our existing educational facilities? Although there are inequalities in the facilities provided for education, in my opinion they are' not so great that they cannot be used for the re-education of adults who find themselves in a position in which, because of lack of education, they' are unable to accept positions in which they would be happy.

Adult education and re-education should be free of charge. If fees are required, such education will be placed out of the reach of young married couples who have children or children on the way and who Icannot afford to pay for the additional education they need to advance themselves economically. Every oppOttunity should be afforded them to educate or re-educate themselves~ ~ If

an adult wishes to attend, for example, the Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology, he should be given the opportunity to do so, without having financial restrictions imposed upon him; in fact, the only additional cost to the department would be that involved in providing staff, since the buildings are there. Most high and technical schools are not used in the evenings.

I have dealt at some length with inequalities in education so far as they affect able-bodied children, but what is the situation of less fortunate, handicapped, children?

Mr. Speaker, today I asked a question without notice relating to the establishment of special schools. I shall applaud any announcement of an intention to establish special schools, whether they are for mentally or physically handicapped children, because many parents within my electorate cannot afford private education for their handicapped children. Although I do not assert that it is necessarily the case, some of these children may have only one parent, and it would be quite intolerable to place such burdens upon them.

I shall refer now to the problems facing local government. I am a councillor of a municipality neighbouring the one referred' to by the honorable 'member for Preston, and the problems which he indicated are also experienced within my own municipality. Parliament has an obligation to prevent any increase in the financial burden which is placed upon the community and which is in fact causing inequalities for children.

It is fair to say that the Opposition supports the system of uniform taxation which requires that each per·· son shall contribute taxes for the running of the country' according to his income. Municipal rates are a flat amount and, in my own case, . I pay the same municipal rate as my next-door neighbour who happens to be receiving a widow's pension. My ability to pay those rates

224 'Governor's Speech: LASSEMBLY.] Address-in-Reply.

is greater than hers. Moreover, if one delves further into the matter, probably one will find that I am paying only three-quarters of the amount paid by my next-door neighbour because I am able to claim the rates as an income tax deduction whereas the pensioner cannot do so because she does not submit a taxation return.

Parliament should resolve to do everything in its power to ensure that these flat and regressive types of taxation levied in the community are abolished and in their place to institute a form of taxation, whether it is additional or otherwise, to be fairly levied throughout the community, as lis Commonwealth income taxation, thus placing all persons on a more level footing than has been so in the past.

Now I desire to dwell on the geriatric facilities provided in municipalities. I am thinking again of that same person who has gone through life, paid taxes and at the eventide, when he may be a single survivor of a married couple, may find that he is in difficult circumstances because of the heavy burden of flat and indirect taxes as well as the inability to care for himself. I ask honorable menlbers what we are supposed to do with these people. After all, they are our forebears, the people who pioneered the areas in which we now live and enjoy the environment. These peopJe fought for the things which we now enjoy such as the 40-hour five-day week, sick pay, workers compensation and other benefits.

We enjoy these things but we do not look after those who made them possible. Every honorable member has an earnest responsibility to ensure that a start is made in providing facilities. I use the word U start" advisedly because one could state that Mount Royal and Cheltenham Home and Hospital for the Aged constitute the eritire facilities for aged persons in need. The Government should extend geriatric facilities on a State level and not leave it to municipalities-the administration of such

Mr. Fell.

places may be left to local councils. The Government should take the bit between its teeth and provide those services in this field.

Another item relating to local government which should be elaborated upon is street construction costs in newly developing areas. Within the electorate of Greensborough ratepayers within the City of Heidelberg, the Shire of Diamond Valley and the Shire of Eltham are demanding that roads be constructed so that they may get to their places of employment. However, some home owners are very incensed when they find, as occurred in one instance in Montmorency, that they are being billed for the construction of a side road abutting their property. In this case, a corner property was involved and the side road was constructed under a private street construction scheme.

For some honorable members who may not know what a private street construction scheme is, it is a scheme in which abutting owners are charged for the construction of the road and they may well be paying it off for a period of ten or twenty years, by which time the road has crumbled. To my knowledge, this system of financing street construction is the only one in existence within theCommonwealth. In New South Wales the owners are charged for kerbs, channels and footpaths, but no charge is made for the road or the drainage.'

In the case to which I referred earlier, a woman had to pay $700 for the construction of a side street only to find that twelve months lateli the front street was constructed under a different scheme under which subsequently she was charged a further $1,500. This is not unique; it is a regular occurrence throughout outer suburban areas. For a regulation allotment of 55 feet by 125 feet, the road bill totals $2,200. This is the most regressive type of taxation that can be placed on any' section of the community, whether it consists of members of the' working-class, pensioners or otherwise.

Governor's Speech : [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Address-in-Reply. 225

This regressive f.orm of taxation is causing so much heartache tha't it is not an overstatement to say that the worry to some elderly persons as to how the costs will be paid off is hastening their departure. It is no consolation to them that the costs will be charged against their estates when they have died. After all, we will all reach that stage and at that time we will want economic security. The only way of providing it in this field may be to copy action taken in other States. I have yet to ascertain how they find the money to do this, but they are succeding in providing the facilities without charging the abutting property owners. As a matter of urgency the Government should investigate how this can be done.

I now desire to relate my remarks to a problem which affects the whole community, namely, police protection. It . is essential that our children should be protected. If police protection is not provided, there is every chance that some of our children will not reach adulthood. For example, in the Greensborough electorate, there is only one policeman to every 4,000 people.

I cite the case of a migrant who had been in Australia for only eight weeks and resided in my electorate. On returning home from work one evening he was brutally bashed and had to be hospitalized. This man has no recourse other than by civil action to damages from the louts who bashed him. He is unable to take this action because he has no capital assets. A fund should be established to compensate victims of assaults.

The Government has a responsibility to protect its citizens, and the best way to do this is to provide an adequate Police Force, which could be recruited at proper standards if adequate 'sala'ries were paid. Recruits are available if the Government is prepared to pay for them.

Honorable members must insist on their right of speech without interruption, whether or not others agree

with what they are saying. In a democracy, it is essential to hear what 'a m'an has to Isay. As previous speakers have proved, the blame for the inadequacies existing in Victoria today can be fairly levelled at the Liberal Government of this State. It is useless for the Government to complain that it has insufficient finance to overcome its deficiencies because both State and Federal Governments have the same policy. If that policy is restrictive, it is high time the Government was changed.

Mr. BIRRELL (Geelong).-This debate gives honorable members the opportunity to express their loyalty to the reigning Sovereign, and, on a broad spectrum, to bring forward any matters of local or State-wide interest which they deem important. I add my personal endorsement to the expressions of loyalty to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. whom all members serve in one capacity or another in this House.

I shall deal with a mixture of local and State-wide issues. It is interesting to note that, in the past fifteen years, the population of the second largest city in Victoria, Geelong, has grown by 50 per cent. Some derogatory remarks have been made concerning State administration, particularly in the sphere ofeducation. In the same period, the number of persons being educated has risen by 123 per cent-from 10,437 to 23,312 as at June, 1970. I quote from the official figures of the Education Department. This is an indication of the way in which the Government has met and is meeting the chal1enges of the 1960s and 1970s.

In the ebb and flow of years, one is apt to forget the aggregation of results and the amounts spent on education in a decade and a half. The 23,000 students today are getting at least as good an education as did the 10,000 students in 1955. At least, the facilities are as good. The nonhuman elements are as good; after all, an inspection of modern schools

226 Governor's Speech : [ASSEMBLY.] Address-in-Reply.

will show that they have never been better off. Of course, weaknesses exist; gaps have to be filled and are continually being filled.

I now move to a broader sociological subject. The State needs a wider diversity of its population, especially against the present background of decreasing numbers of people residing in country areas and the difficulties being experienced by farmers and pastoralists in coping with the downward trend of prices and general prosperity. My contention is based on the sociological benefits to be derived from greater decentralization.

Firstly, there is inherent in a city community of 2.5 million people a degree of serious crime which is not evident in smaller communities. Secondly, there is a degree of intimate social relationships between country people which is not evident in the city. Thirdly, it is obvious that ,cities get beyond the size where, on the streets, many people may be well known to each other. A diversified country town has many advantages over a large city.

Fourthly, there is a degree of natural harmony and understanding in country areas which is not apparent in the city. In fact, people in country areas would work 365 days in the year if it were not for the city slicker sticking his spoke in the wheel. The strikes which occur in my electorate are not generated locally-it is the city slicker from Melbourne who initiates them. The general hum'an relationships in country area's are much more personal and better understood than in the vast depersonalized metropolis, and this flows through to industrial relationships between employer and employee.

Fifthly, one of the key features of Australian life has been the ready access, particularly in country areas, to recreation and sport, by which the

Mr, mrrell.

Australian character has been largely developed. After playing in a team one does not often find enemies amongst those people with whom one played. There is a degree of teamwork and general social equality pre .. vailing amongst those who have enjoyed recreation and sporting facilities, which is better developed in country areas than in the city. I should not care to say how many Australian rules footballers play in leagues outside the metropolis as compared with the number who play in Melbourne, but I have no doubt that the comparative figures related to population would surprise honorable members. It might be said that my local football team should win the premiership every year, but other factors work in this field.

The problem of pollution is much less noticeable in country area's than in the city, which makes the provincial life much more desirable. The Government's move to establish a Ministry of State Development should receive the support of all honorable members.

However, there is a wider political issue upon which I sound a note of warning. I t concerns not only this State but the whole Commonwealth, and may be summed up in the words "law and order". A democracy points up the need for the majority to make decisions, and democracy cannot continue to exist unless the general concensus of the people. is put into practice. Of course, some protection must be given to minority points of view. We should not be harsh towards those people who disagree with the majority, but the pattern of democracy involves the a·cceptance of the point of view of the majority.

At present in this community there is a concerted attempt to denigrate democracy as we have come to understand it in the English-speaking world, but I do not believe that what is likely to happen in this city in the

Adjournment. [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Adjournment. 227

coming days is any evidence that this point of view has been accepted in our community. I am not opposed to a group of people organizing dissent, so long as it does not interfere with the rights of other citizens. If groups of people wish to hire a hall, or are large enough to hire the Melbourne Cricket Ground, or some portion of this city's open space, I will go along and roar my dissent, but when they occupy a city street which is the public thoroughfare of other citizens, voices should be raised against such a practice.

Whether or not this is democracy at work, where will this process stop? This is a subject which each honorable member who calls himself a democrat should examine in the deepest recesses of his mind. It is a subject which must receive the attention of all honorable members in the days and weeks that lie ahead, irrespective of the attitudes of those people who are organizing certain events in this city.

On the motion of Mr WILKES (Northcote), the debate was adjourned.

It was ordered that the debate be adjourned until Tuesday, September 22.

ADJOURNMENT.

DEATH OF SIR WILFRID KENT HUGHES -HANDICAPPED PERSONS: MOTOR REGISTRATION FEES-REPAYMENT OF MONEYS BY FORMER M.L.C.EDUCATION DEPARTMENT: GRANTS TO SCHOOLS.

Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of Labour and Industry).-I move-

That House, at its rising, adjourn until Tuesday next, at half-past Three o'clock.


Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of Labour and Industry).-I move-


Mr. MITCHELL (Benambra).-I direct the GO'vernment's attention to the fact that to date no gesture has been made in this House to the memory of the late Sir Wilfrid Kent Hughes. I speak with some feeling in this matter because I knew him not only for a number of years in civil, poli'tical and sporting life but also under the trying conditions of a Japanese prisoner of war camp. If circumstances such as that do not show a man to be either very bad or very good, nothing will and Sir Wilfrid came through that test as one of the finest men this State has produced.

Sir Wilfrid was associated with this House-except for his war service, and prior to his election to the Commonwealth Parliament - for something like twenty years. He was an outstanding man-perhaps a man who typified an era that has vanished. I do not wish to' labour the point, but I consider that the Government is remiss in not paying tribute to Sir Wilfrid and making a gesture to Lady Kent Hughes and her family.

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).-I direct the attention of the Chief Secretary to a matter which has been referred to me. A group of handicapped people in the community find it necessary to provide their own transport, and, because of their disability their vehicles require to be modified in certain ways. I should like the Chief Secretary to examine their situation with a view to granting these persons some registration fee concession.

I understand that some of these handicapped persons who are employed in industry receive a special rate of pay which is something less than the ordinary wage because they are classified as slow workers. Not being able to use public transport, they have to purchase their own vehicles and have them modified. I am informed by the Motor Registration Branch that no concessions are available for this class of person. I

228 Adjournment. [ASSEMBLY. ] Adjournment.

ask the Chief Secretary to e~amine this situation with a view to granting some relief to the people concerned.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds).I ask the Chief Secretary, as the representative of the Government, to consider the unusual circumstances of what has been called the Walsh case and the exclusion of Mr. Walsh from the Parliament f.ollowing a recent court decision. The urgency of this matter is that Mr. Walsh must repay moneys that were paid to him during the period in which he represented Melbourne West Province in the Legislative Council. As one who has existed on a weekly income, with no other resources, I can appreciate the difficulty and the hardship that will face Mr. Walsh and his family if he has to repay the sum involv'ed. I therefore request the Government to make a generous gestur.e by granting to Mr. W'alsh an ex graUa payment, as has been done in the past to resolve a difficult situation, or to find some other way of ensuring that Mr. Walsh will not have to repay this sum.

Mr. HAYES (Scoresby). - This evening, I received a copy of a memorandum dated 11 th September, 1970, which was sent by the Education Department to school principals, school committees and advisory councils. It is a fourpage document which sets out f.or the guidance of school committees and ,advisory councils the intricacies of the new direct grant scheme. I t will be recalled that, prior to the last elections, the Government announced that it intended to combine various grants into one 'lump sum and to make pro rata payments to schools. I must say that I find this document lacking in two respects-fi'rstly, it is inconclusive; and secondly. it is tight-fisted in a manner which I should like to think is an error.

With regard to its lack of punch, the final paragraph states-

Books and accounts relating to the disbursement of grants must be kept by each school. and made available for inspection

and audit as required. In due course the department will arrange for the issue of grant account cash sheets to primary and secondary schools, but in the meantime -it is suggested that loose extraneous account cash sheets be used with necessary adaptations.

Nowhere within the document is there an indication of how much money a school will receive. I imagine that it will be necessary for the department in due course to advise all schools what this scheme means to them. I invite honorable members to imagine the predicament of a school committee which met tonight. At first sight, it would think, " At la1st we have the independence and responsibility we have been seeking." But when the document is examined, the committee must ask, c: How much have we to spend?" There is no answer to the question within the document.

Secondly, I refer to page 3 under the general heading of " Buildings and Grounds", in which it is stated that restrictions which applied previously to the spending of works and buildings allowances are removed. However, there is also a notation which states-

The payment of the grant will not alter the procedures for the engagement of workmen by local bodies (written contracts in excess of $200).

I should like the Minister of Education to reconsider this limit of $200 so that school committees will be in a position to discharge the responsibilities expected of them.

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-The points made by the honorable member for Scoresby are well taken. Schools will be informed over the next few weeks what amounts they wHl be able to spend under the direct grant system. Originally, it was proposed that there would be combined into one grant the former works and buildings grants together with money paid to schools for the library and eqUipment

Adjournment. [16 SEPTEMBER, 1970.] Adjournment. 229

subsidy and the buildings, grounds and furniture subsidy. However, on further examination it was discovered that some twelve different grants were paid to schools for specific purposes. The payment of these grants entails a lot of what could be regarded as unnecessary administrative work, and it was felt that it would be of advantage to combine these twelve different grants-some in subsidy form and others in direct grant form-into one single grant to be spent by each school as it thought fit. Experience has shown that projects carried out by local school councils and committees are invariably undertaken ec'On'Omically, expeditiously, effectively 'and to the satisfaction of aU ooncern'ed. Therefore, in the light of this experience, it was felt desirable that school councils and committees should be given maximum flexibility and responsibility in the expenditure of their money. I agree that there is an ambiguity in the porti'On of themem'Orandum read by the hon'Orab'le member f'Or Sc'Oresby relating to. the maximum value of a con tracl which can be let by a 'School comm;ittee. That situation will be clarified. In anyoase, 'c'Ons ide ra -tion i'Scurrently being given to the desirability 'Of ra11sing tihat level above $200.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-1 shall have the matter mentioned by the honorable member for Broadmeadows examined and will communicate with him in due course. In regard to the question raised by the honorable member for Moonee Ponds, I am not sure how far I can discuss this case in this House as the person mentioned was elected to another place. I have been informedI am not sure whether this is entirely correct-that payments were made to the person concerned on the basis that if he was not qualified to stand he would undertake to refund them. At any rate, I shall examine this matter and discuss it with the Treasurer.

With regard to the matter raised by the honorable member for

Session 1970.-11

Benambra, I hope this House does not feel that any discourtesy waS shown to the late Sir Wilfrid Kent Hughes or his widow. I am sure the honorable member realizes that the service which the late Sir Wilfrid gave to this House was tremendous. From 1927 to 1949 he represented the electorate which I now have the honour to represent. He was Minister of Railways in 1936; Deputy Premier in 1935; Minister of Transport in 1934 and 1935, and from 1947 to 1949; Deputy Leader of his party between 1935 and 1940 and Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party from 1947 to 1949; Minister of Public Instruction and Chief Secretary in 1948; and Deputy Premier and Minister of Electrical Undertakings in 1948 and 1949. He was honoured by Her Majesty when he was knighted in 1957. As Acting Premier of Victoria, I and many of my colleagues attended his funeral. A fulll tribute was paid to him in the Federal Parliament and this Parlfiament took note of that.

I believe the matter raised by the honorable member for Benambra should be further examined, but I am sure there is no doubt in the minds of any members of this House, whether they be Government supporters, members of the Opposition or members of the Country Party, that we hold the greatest respect for the late Sir Wilfrid Kent Hughes-a magnificent figure and a man who gave the whole of his life to serving his country, his State and the things he believed in. I trust that what I have said tonight will be conveyed to his widow; as his successor in the Kew electorate, I could convey those sentiments personally. I am sure Lady Kent Hughes will appreciate how we all feel about this great man. I thank the honorable member for Benambra for directing this matter to the attention of the Government and I have been delighted ta have had the opportunity of saying these few words in tribute to a great Victorian and a great Australian.

The motion was agreed to. The House adjourned at 9.44 p.m.,

until Tuesday, September 22.


~t!ltlilattut !\lilitmbly.

Tuesday, September 22, 1970.



The following answers to questions on notice were circulated:-

LITERATURE. GOVERNMENT GRANT FOR VICTORIAN

WRITERS.


Whether he has noted the proposal of the New South Wales Government to establish a $4,000 Literary Fellowship Grant for writers who normally reside in New South Wales; if so, and if Victoria has nothing similar, whether he will give consideration to establishing a similar grant for Victorian writers?


My colleague, the Chief Secretary, in whose administration this matter falls, has advised me that he is not aware of the proposal of the New South Wales Government.

For a number of years, the Victorian Government has actively assisted writers through the State of Victoria Short Story Award. The purpose of the award is to encourage the art of the short story in Australia, and entries may be submitted by any bona fide Australian resident.

The award has had an important effect on creative writing in Australia and for the last competition was increased by the Government from $600 to $1,000. This has enabled additional prizes to be awarded particularly in respect of young writers.

Substantial literary awards totalling $11,000 have also been made available by the Government as a feature of the Captain Cook Bicentenary Celebrations. These awards, which consist of two first prizes of $3,500, two second prizes of $1,500 and two third prizes of $500, are for the biography of a Victorian, and for an historical study of an aspect of Victorian development and are open to any bona fide resident of Australia. The results of this competition will be announced on 1st October, 1970.

LOCAL GOVERNMENT ACT. EXPENDITURE ON MUNICIPAL ELECTION

CAMPAIGNS.


Whether, because of the reports of excessive amounts being spent on municipal election campaigns and, in particular, the recent Melbourne City Council election, he will seek amendments to the Local Government Act 1958 to limit expenditure so that opportunity for election is open to candidates regardless of financial status?


This matter is already under consideration.

GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS AND INSTRUMENTALITIES. EMPLOYMENT OF CONSULTING

ENGINEERS.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds) asked the Premier-

1. What representations and submissions have been made to the Government by the Victorian Chapter of the Association of Consulting Engineers of Australia for local consulting engineers to be employed when the Government or its various authorities require the services of consulting engineers?

2. What decisions have been made in respect of these representations and submissions?

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-The answers are-

Representations have been made to me in connection with the recommendations made in the Melbourne transportation study, including those relating to the underground railway, to the effect that there are many advantages to the Government in selecting the major consultant for these works from those consulting firms whose livelihood is earned largely in the State of Victoria. They ask that the members of the Victorian Chapter of the Association of Consulting Engineers of Australia be given the opportunity to participate in works arising from this project. These representations are receiving consideration.

WORKERS COMPENSATION BOARDS.

CASES AWAITING HEARING: COMPOSITION: CLAIMS.


1. How many cases waiting to be heard before the Workers Compensation Board are outstanding for more than six months and twelve mont.hs, respectively?

Questions [22 SEPTEMBER, 1970. J on Notice. 231

2. Whether the Government has any plans for speeding up the hearings of these cases especially where the applicants are sick or in poor financial circumstances or both?


1. 2,855 and 1,947 respectively.

2. Subject to the proof of circumstances warranting it, cases of the type referred to by the honorable member are already given priority of hearing by the Workers Compensation Board. However, the Government is concerned at the delays which are occurring in the hearing of contested workers compensation claims, and consideration is currently being given to several proposals to minimize these delays.

TRAF'FIC COMMISSION.

NON-SKID ROAD MARKING PAINTS.

Mr. KIRKWOOD (Preston) asked the Chief Secretary-

Whether the Traffic Commission has investigated non-skid road marking paints; if so, whether the commission is familiar with the City of ·Preston's practice of mixing a fine sand with road paint to obtain nonskid surface?


The commission is aware of many experiments being conducted into the effectiveness of non-skid paints. However, the commission is not conversant with the particular practice adopted by the City of Preston.

The commission would be interested to learn of the results of these experiments and would be prepared to liaise with the Country Roads Board in the conduct of any technical investigations.

FISHERIES AND WILDLIFE BRANCH.

GAME MANAGEMENT SECTION: GAYNOR'S SWAMP, COROP.

Mr. ROSS-EDWARDS (Leader of the Country Party) asked the Chief Secretary-

1. How much money has been made available to the Game Management Section of the Fisheries and Wildlife Branch from all sources in each of the past five financial years?

2. 'For what purposes this money was used?

3. What money was requested by the Game Management Section of the branch in its estimates for expenditure on wildlife reserves for the current financial year?

4. Whether it is the intention of the branch to purchase Gaynor's swamp, Corop?


1. The funds made available to the Game Management Section of the Fisheries and Wildlife Branch during the past five financial years were as follows:-

1965-66 1966-67 1967--68 1968--69 1969-70

$181,820 $191,890 $133,156 $135,687 $143,032

2. This money was used for the following purposes:-

Salaries and wages; travelling expenses; vehicle purchase and maintenance; game research; reserves management; land purchase; Tower Hill Natural History Centre; residences on reserves; Serendip Research Station; research equipment.

3. $83,950.

4. At this stage, no recomr \endation has been made by the Fisheries md Wildlife Branch that Gaynor's swam~ should be purchased, but the proposal is under consideration.

POLICE DEPARTMENT. STAFF ON DUTY AT MELBOURNE

CRICKET GROUND.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote) asked the Chief Secretary-

1. How many members of the Victoria Police Force were on duty at the Melbourne Cricket Ground for the purpose of-(a) detecting " scalpers"; and (b) other duties, on the 5th and 12th September instant, respectively?

2. What action was taken (if any) against persons found reselling tickets to the ground?


1. 5th September, 12th September. 1970 1970

(a) 7 9 (b) 67 67

2. Briefs of evidence in respect of 37 persons detected reselling tickets (CC scalpers") are being prepared for transmission to the Melbourne City Council for approval to prosecute pursuant to the provisions of regulation 24 of the Melbourne Parks and Gardens (General) Regulations 1959.


SOCIAL SERVICES. PAYMENTS TO WIDOWS AND

UNMARRIED MOTHERS.

Mr. WILKES '(North cote) asked the Chief Secretary-.' l. What was the cost to the Government in making payments to widows and unmarried mothers, respectively, in each of the past three financial years and until the Government discontinued such payments?

2. What was the reason for the discontinuance of these payments?


1 and 2. The statement is incorrect that the Government has discontinued payments to unmarried mothers. In fact, higher payments are now being made to many more applicants in this class and will continue. Such payments are subject to 50 per cent reimbursement from the Commonwealth under its States Grants Act, but the net cost to the State has increased considerably.

Discontinuance of supplementary assistance for the children of parents receiving full Commonwealth pension, including widows, will operate from 30th September, 1970. This intention, and the reasons for it, were announced twelve months ago in the 1969-70 Budget speech and all recipients were notified at that time.

The table which follows shows the estimated costs of State payments to these classes over the periods 1st July, 1969 to 30th June, 1970; 1st July, 1970 to 30th September, 1970; 1st October, 1970 to 30th June, 1971. Bases are not available for estimates over preceding years. .. As these figures indicate, the Government's increased payments to unmarried mothers and their children will greatly exceed savings accruing from discontinuance of supplementary assistance for the children of pensioners.

Estimated State Payments.

Class. Expected

Full Year Quarter over Three 1st July, 1st July, Quarters

1969 to 30th 1970 to 30th 1st October, June, 1970. Sept., "1970. 1970 to 30th

June, 1971.

$ $ $ Children of

widows, In-valid, and age

219,090 48,000 Nil pensIoners "

Unmarried mo-thers and children " 129,400* 132,600* 895,000*

* Net cost, allowing for reimbursement from Commonwealth pursuant to States Grants (Deserted Wives) Act 1968.

MUNICIPALITIES. CONTRIBUTIONS TO METROPOLITAN

FIRE BRIGADES BOARD.

Mr. KIRKWOOD (Preston) asked the Chief Secretary-

Whether, in view of the heavy increase in the contributions paid by municipal councils to the Metropolitan Fire Brigades Board for the year 1970-71, he would be prepared to adopt the Municipal Association's recommendations that one-eighth of the total cost of the board's operating expenses be levied against councils?

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secreretary) .-The answer is-

Representations have been made to me by the Municipal Association regarding the contributions paid by municipal councils to the Metropolitan Fire Brigades Board, but at this stage no decision has been made on the association's recommendations.

I propose to receive a deputation from the association in the near future to discuss this question and full consideration will be given to the views expressed by the deputation.

PUBLIC SOLICITOR'S OFFICE. QUALIFIED BARRISTERS AND SOLICITORS

EMPLOYED: SCOPE OF FUNCTIONS.

Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown) asked the Attorney-General-

How many qualified barristers and solicitors are permanently on ,the staff of the Public Solicitor and what is the area of advice or action covered in carrying out the functions of the Public Solicitor?

Mr., REID (Attorney-General).The answer is-

The Public Solicitor and two other barristers and solicitors are permanently employed in the office of the Public Solicitor. In addition, there are eleven barristers and solicitors employed in that office in a temporary capacity and four of them are occupying vacant permanent offices.

The permanent establishment of the office has not been increased because of the proposals which led to the passage of the Legal Aid Act 1969. Since 1st June, 1970, when Part III. of that Act came into oper.ation, the Public Solicitor has not accepted applications for legal assistance in civil matters, which are now dealt with by the Legal Aid Committee. The Public Solicitor will, of course, complete civil matters which were on hand on 1st June, 1970.

As in the past, the Public Solicitor will provide legal assistance in criminal matters, and the range of his functions in respect of criminal matters will be extended from 1st October next, when Part I. of the Legal Aid Act 1969 will come into operation.

Questions [22 SEPTEMBER, 1970.J on Notice. 233

LEGAL PROFESSION. JUNIORS ApPEARING WITH QUEEN'S

COUNSEL.

Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown) asked the Attorney-General-

1. Under what court rule or under whose direction it is mandatory for a Queen's Counsel appearing in the courts of law in this State to be assisted by a barrister who is known as his "junior", and who is paid an amount equal to two-thirds the Queen's Counsel's fees?

2. Whether in the interest of the litigants, he will investigate the need for this archaic provision with a view to its elimination so that Queen's Counsel can appear on their own without the litigants having to automatically pay additional fees for" juniors "?

Mr. REID (Attorney-General).The answers are-

1. The practice to which the honorable member refers is not the subject of a court rule or statutory provision. It is a professional rule of very long standing, which I understand has the support of the Victorian Bar Council.

2. I will examine the implications of the honorable member's question.

COMPANIES ACT.

NONFERRAL PTY. LTD., KEON PARK.

Mr. SIMMONDS (Res'ervoir) asked the Attorney-General-

1. What are the names and addresses of the directors of Nonferral Pty. Ltd. of Dunstans Court, Keon Park?

2. Whether this company is an Australian-owned company; if not, in what country it is based?


1. The names and addresses of the directors of Nonferral Pty. Ltd. are as follows:-

George Herbert O'Dell Crowther, 5 Torresdale Court, Toorak.

Kaye Merlin Brutton, Flat 10, 38A Kensington Road, South Yarra.

George Henry Saunders, 11 Unwin Street, Templestowe.

Anthony Brian Hartcliff. 37 Campbell Drive, Wahroonga, N.S.W.

Kenneth Charles Leggett, 7 Edith Court, Doncaster.

2. No. The company is a subsidiary of an English company, A. Cohen & Co. Ltd.

INVESTIGATION OF MOTOR CAR INSURANCE COMPANIES.

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North) asked the Attorney-General-

1. Which companies operating in motor car insurance are at present under investigation pursuant to. the Companies Act 1961?

2. What stage has been reached in relation to each such company?

3. Whether complaints have been made against any other such companies during recent months; if so-(a) what are the names of the respective companies; and (b) what are the allegations against such companies?

4. Whether inquiries into such firms will be instituted?


1. The following companies undertaking motor car insurance are at present under investigation :-

East Australian Insurance Co. Ltd. Mid-Pacific and International Insurance

Co. Ltd. (in liquidation)

2. Mr. D. Dawson of counsel has been appointed an inspector to investigate the affairs of the first-named company pursuant to the provisions of Division 4 of Part VI. of the Companies Act 1961. Mid-Pacific and International Insurance Co. Ltd. has been placed in liquidation and officers of the Companies Office are investigating aspects of the affairs of th.at company.

3. A number of complaints have been received with respect to the slow payment or non-payment of debts by other companies undertaking insurance business. No evidence of breaches of the Companies Act have yet been obtained in respect of such companies, and it is not considered desirable to name them at this time.

4. Upon completion of the current inquiries in relation to the companies named in the answer to question 1, consideration will be given to making further inquiries in respect of the other companies.

EDUCATION DEPARTMENT. SECONDARY SCHOOLS USING TEMPOR

ARY BUILDINGS.

Mr. TURNBULL (Brunswick West) asked the Minister of Educa tion-

How many high schools and technical schools, respectively, are at present operating in temporary buildings and how long has each such school been so operating?



High Schools:

South Melbourne High School has been operating in temporary facilities since 1968. Its permanent building is under construction and the date for completion is May, 1971.

Rosanna East High School has operated in temporary buildings since the commencement of this year. The contract fur the school has been let and the commencemen t on the construction is imminent.

Technical Schools: Ararat Technical SchOOl has been in

temporary buildings (Ararat High School) since 1969. Contractual documents are being prepared and the commencement of construction is expected early in 1971.

Bell Park Technical School has been operating in portable class-rooms on its own site since February 1968. Contract documents are being prepared and construction should commence early in 1971.

Doveton North Technical School has been operating in a portable complex since 1969. Construction of the new school should commence early in 1971.

Irymple Technical School has been operating from Mildura Technical School in portable class-rooms since 1969. Construction of permanent buildings will commence later this year.

. Lalor Technical School has been operating In portable class-rooms on its own site since February, 1968 and construction of the permanent buildings is scheduled for early 1971. The contractual documents are in the course of preparation.

Leongatha Technical School has been operating from Leongatha High School from 1967. The construction of permanent buildings is well advanced and occupation should take place later this year.

Technical schools at Cobden, Portland and Lilydale commenced operation ,in terrapin units and portable class-rooms in 1970. The terrapin units are facilities which will remain on the site permanently for school use.

IRYMPLE TECHNICAL SCHOOL: PuPILS: TEACHERS: ACCOMMODATION.


1. How many pupils and teachers, respectively, attended the Irymple Technical School in 1969, how many now attend the school, and how many are expected to attend in 1971?

2. What measures are proposed to provide adequate and permanent class-room accommodation at the school for next year?

3. What maximum number of pupils is it intended to teach at the school?


1. Pupils. Teachers. 1969 1970 1971

184 12 288 20 400 (approx.) 26

2. Additional portables are being supplied for use in 1971 pending the completion of the new school buildings expected late in the new school year.

3. 650-850 students.

CAPITAL EXPENDITURE ON TECHNICAL SCHOOLS.

Mr. ROSS-EDWARDS (Leader of the Country Party) asked the Minister of Educa tion-

1. How much money was made available to the State Government by way of Commonwealth grants for capital expenditure on technical schools in each of the past three years?

2. How this money was distributed and what schools participated in each of the past three years?


1. Under Acts relating to science laboratories, technical training and secondary schools libraries, the Commonwealth has made the following amounts available to Victoria for schools and similar institutions conducted by the State:-

Soience Laboratories 1967-68 1968-69 1969-70

Technical Training 1967-68 1968-69 1969-70

Secondary Schools Libraries 1968 1969 .. 1970 ..

$2,045,200 $2,041,000 $2,041,000

$2,825,800 $2,820,800 $2,820,800

Nil $1,880,200 $1,880,200

Of 'the amounts available under Ithe technical training Acts, a proportion is allocated to the Department of Agriculture, and it is practice to set aside portions of the amounts available under all three grants schemes for the purchase of equipment. The balances are available for expenditure on buildings at State schools.


2. Expenditure on buildings at technical schools in each of the last three financial years is:

Science Laboratories-

School.

Technical Schools-

Altona North.. .. .. Ararat .. .. .. Aspendale .. .. .. Ballarat North . . . . Benalla .. .. .. Box Hill Girls . . . .

.. I Burwood .. .. .. Colac .. .. .. Corio .. .. .. Doveton .. .. .. Fawkner .. .. .. Geelong East ., . . . . Geelong West .. .. Glenroy .. .. .. Heidelberg . . . . . . Horsham .. .. .. Kangaroo Flat . . . . Keon Park .. .. .. Kingsbury .. .. .. McLeod .. .. .. Mildura .. .. .. Mooroolbark .. . . . . Morwell .. .. .. Noble Park .. .. .. Northcote .. .. .. Preston East ., . . . . Sale .. .. .. Sebastopol . . . . . . Shepparton . . . . Shepparton South . . . . Swan Hill .. .. .. Tottenham .. .. .. Watsonia ., .. .. White Hills . . . . . . Yallourn .. .. .. D.S.A. and outside consultants ..

Total

Technical Training-

Ballarat School of Mines .. . . Bendigo "Institute of Technology .. Box Hill Technical School . . . . Caulfield Technical College . . . . Coburg Motor Trades School . . . . Footscray Technical College . . . . Horsham Technical School . . . . Maryborough Technical College .. Noble Park Technical School . . . . Northern Suburbs Motor School .. Pascoe Vale School of Textiles.. . . Prahran Technical School . . . . Preston Technical School . . . . Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology Richmond Technical School . . . .. Melbourne School of Hairdressing ..

1967-68.

$

65.00

9,090.09

1,779.00 754.24

4,461.85 400.00

2,878.93

4,619.01

1,644.00

9,549.11 3,589.56

153.89

4,745.49

43,730.17

109,329.13 27,140.00 89,488.65

623,700.00 275.00

707,608.03 1,689.97 Cr.

350,049.75

7,090.51 660,494.37

1,007.89 591,074.51 25,740.08 69,105.33

1968-69.

$

309.53

16,458.88

14,068.00

1,973.15 146.15

91.48 15,722.56

201.28 14,345.12

1,227.68

123,500.00 6,550.50

1,968.92 823.46

25,529.61

222,916.32

92,315.80 182,603.30

6,746.81 339,192.22

188,563.56

51,323.63 207,930.00

11,720.40

32,317.15 Cr. 2,040.00

1969-70.

$

65.76

20.700.00 15,950.00 78,175.07 20,000.00 4,995.54

30,002.32 26,187.00 37,110.00 15,034.00

617.39 Cr. 24,598.00

168.00 2,021.64

30,938.17 10,729.00 9,171.52

275.44 40,861.17

646.33 91.11

31,835.30 9,650.00

47,028.48

455,616.46

28,144.97 33,629.24

2,465.00 Cr. 965,937.13 939,693.15

11,396.14

3,920.00


School.

Technical Training-continued. Melbourne School of Painting and

Decorating .. . . . . . . Melbourne School of Printing and Graphic

Arts .. .. .. .. School of Textiles . . . . . . Swinburne Technical College . . . . William Angliss Food Trades School .. Sunshine Technical College . . . . General approvals . . . . . .

1967-68.

$

15,736.17

58,810.04

1968-69.

$

69,488.03

17,087.45 Cr. 1,415.00 3,037 .63

1969-70.

$

40,099.23

1,391.25

Design, supervision and administration .. Outside professional services . . . .

177,183.61 225,803.04

48,111.87 167,908.59

236,000.00 340,844.00

2,802.88 299,674.29

Total 3,737,946.74 1,322,994.26 2,901,067.28

Secondary Schools Libraries-

Box Hill Girls Technical School Design, supervision and administration ..

UNIVERSITIES. QUOTA SYSTEM: STUDENTS REPEAT

ING MATRICULATION EXAMINATION: ENROLMENTS.


1. How many qualified students were prevented by the quota system from entering-(a) University of Melbourne; (b) Monash University; and (c) La Trobe University, for each of the years 1967 to 1970, inclusive?

2. How many students attending metropolitan high schools were refused the right to repeat the matriculation examination for the school year 1970?

University of MelbourneQualified applicants First preference offers made

Monash University-Qualified applicants First preference offers made

Latrobe University-Qualified applicants First preference offers made

2. The Director of Secondary Education advises that no students were prevented in the metropolitan area from repeating matriculation examinations for the school year 1970.

3. The Victorian Universities Admission Committee advises that -it is not the policy

5,778.63 Not available

3. What approximate percentage of children who left metropolitan and nonmetropolitan State schools, respectively, in 1968, went on to one of the universities in 1969?


1. The following information was provided by the Victorian Universities Admission Committee:-

There are no separate figures available for 1967. The total number of qualified applicants considered for that year was 9,876 and 7,049 offers of university places were made.

First preference applications and offers made at the three universities in the following three years were:-

1968. 1969. 1970.

6,154 6,068 7,216 2,301 3,162 3,479

3,386 3,260 3,536 1,586 1,914 3,044

971 1,116 1,375 384 658 877

of the admission committee to advise faculties at the time of selection of the schools previously attended by the new students. No information is available on the percentage of metropolitan and nonmetropolitan State school pupils respectively

. who went to one of the universities in 1969.


HOUSING COMMISSION. EXPENDITURE ON NEW HOUSING

ACCOMMODATION.

Mr. ROSS-EDWARDS (Leader of the Country Party) asked the Minister of Housing-

What was the actual expenditure by the Housing Commission on new housing

Albert Park .. BaHaarat North Ballaarat South Balwyn BeHarine BenaJIa Benambra Bendigo Bennettswood .. Bentieigh Box Hill Brighton Broadmeadows Brunswick East Brunswick West Camberwell Caulfield Coburg Dandenong Deer Park Dromana Dundas Essendon Evelyn Footscray Frankston Geelong .. Geelong North Gippsland East Gippsland South Gippsland West Gisborne Glenhuntly Glen Iris Greensborough Hampden Hawthorn Heatherton Ivanhoe Kara. Kara Kew Lowan Malvern Melbourne Mentone Midlands Mildura Mitcham Monbulk Moonee Ponds Moorabbin MorweH Murray Valley Narracan

accommodation in each of the Legislative: Assembly electoral districts of Victoria in each of the past three financial years?

Mr. MEAGHER (Minister of Hous~ ing) .-The answer is-

Cost of units handed over in each Legislative Assembly district in each of the past three years:

1967-68.

1

$

146,429

253,536 182,877 249,335 432,284 144,856

494,206

179,841

135,831

22,952 828,955 452,261 559,989 118,395 655,833

36,699 1,824,129

87,440 238,911

95,306

262,195

5,946,850

84,305 288,619

1,648,875 602,032

. 42,703

1968-69.

$

156,362

873,301 308,100

76,916 440,154 102,475

851,325

468,141

342,474 115,559

86,019

1,524,246 505,697 127,846 259,623 451,231 104,063

1,029,129

203,977 238,777

90,157

282,313

5,828,538

197,614 169,449

1,188,080 511,27~ 47,961

1969-70.

$ 4,465,173

606,798 160,847

346,774 178,519

2,411,170 55,046

705,809 388,532 230,612 202,191

66,869 2,542,210

352,311 111,108 582,887 861,109 120,193

1,009,611

369,910 90,744

39,009 30,072

277,735

6,439,638

205,200 294,915

124,255 276,457

1,052,758 20,624


Northcote .. .. .. Qakleigh Polwarth .. .. .. Portland .. .. .. Prahran .. " .. Preston .. .. .. Reservior

" " " Richmond .. .. .. Ringwood Rodney .. .. .. St. Kilda Sandringham Scoresby Shepparton .. .. .. Sunshine Swan Hill .. .. .. Syndal Warrnambool .. .. .. Williamstown .. .. ..

STATE ELECTRICrrY COMMISSION.

.,

. .

. .

..

.,

..

. .

. .

. .

..

..

. .

OPERATION OF ELECTRIC TRAINS DURING INDUSTRIAL STOPPAGES.

Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown) asked the Minister for Fuel and Power-

Whether it is correct that, despite the limitation of 1,500 or 1,250 megawatts of available electricity during recent 24-hour stoppages by the Municipal Officers Association at Yalloum, electric trains could still be run because the system uses only 62.5 megawatts as a maximum with a possible minimum of 25 megawatts?


The facts as stated by the honorable member are broadly correct but, had trains and trams been run on these days, there would have been some load shedding for other consumers for brief periods at the peak hours. On these days the Municipal Officers Association permitted some of its members to man generating plant to provide for certain essential requirements but, in so doing, it specified that no power was to be provided for electric trains and trams.

FUTURE OF YALLOURN TOWNSHIP: REPRESENTATIONS OF LOCAL CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.


In respect of the Minister's letter of 9th May, 1968, to the Yalloum and District Chamber of Commerce, giving an under-

1967-68. 1968-69. 1969-70.

$ $ $ 50,777

285,678 278,973 306,600 269,053 270,961 253,458

4,432,330 11,156

10,287 11,156 2,219,220 2,784,343 2,447,995

268,166 453,575 271,301

482,581 798,062 956,656

372,207 338,805 351,199

359,087 263,910 485,456 1,357,920

taking that an opportunity would be given to the chamber to present its views to the State Electricity Commission special committee inquiring into the future of the Yalloum township, whether the chamber was subsequently invited to submit evidence; if so, when, and what was the nature of the evidence submitted?


The special committee referred to was set up by ,the State Electricity Commission to investigate and report on such matters as the need to win the coal under the town to meet the requirements of power stations, the economics of the proposition compared with other means of providing the necessary fuel, and the time programme of the encroachment of the open cut on the town if the coal was to be won.

The committee's final report, submitted to the commission in March, 1969, made it clear that economically it would be advantageous to win the coal under the Yalloum township.

The committee specifically considered the advisability of conferring with the Yallourn Chamber of Commerce at that stage but stated in its report that before conferring with the chamber, firm proposals should be formulated and adopted by the commission on the programme for abandonment and the broad policy for compensation.

The commission in a letter to the Yalloum Town Advisory Council dated 15th April, 1969, stated ithat it had confirmed its earlier decision to win the coal under the Yalloum township and that it was prepared to dis-

Questions [22 SEPT~MBER, 1970.] on Notice. 239

cuss the form which compensation to individuals and organizations might take with the advisory council and the chamber of commerce.

Since then, the commission has had considerable negotiations with the tenants and has purchased a number of business premises at a mutually agreed price. Rentals of the majority of existing tenants of business premises in Yalloum have been reduced and the commission is taking over the interior maintenance of premises which was formerly the tenants' responsibility.

In view of the foregoing, it is clear that the Yallourn Chamber of Commerce has been given ample opportunity to have its views considered by the commission. I would have no doubt that if the abandonment of the town is to proceed, negotiations with the local business people can be concluded quite amicably.

YALLOURN TOWN ADVISORY COUNCIL. MEMBERS.


Whether he is aware that the elected councillors of the Yallourn Town Advisory Council have attempted to increase the existing number of elected councillors on such council; if so-( 01) what number of councillors was suggested; (b) what was the outcome of their actions; (d) how the result was achieved; and (d) which members of the council supported or opposed the proposition?


I am unaware of any proposal to increase the existing number of elected councillors on the Yallourn Town Advisory Council. Certainly, no approach has been made to me on this matter.

INDUSTRIAL CHAR. MARKETS: REPORT OF OVERSEAS

CHAR COMMISSION.

Mr. AMOS (Morwell) asked the Minister for Fuel and Power:""-

1. Whether he will make available a copy of the report submitted by the members of the 1967 overseas char commission which investigated possible markets for industrial char'?

2. What was the cost of the mission, and how the cost was met?

Mr. BALFOUR (Minister for Fuel and Power).-The answers are-

1. The repor.t made in 1967 by the Victorian State Char Mission, which investi-

gated the possibility of establishing an export industry for char made from brown coal briquettes, is a confidential documenL It contains a considerable amount of valuable marketing data which could be of great value to any competitor company wishing to establish a factory in opposition to Australian Char Pty. Ltd. This company was established as a result of the information gained by the mission and is now commissioning an expensive factory at Morwell.

2. The cost of the mission was shared by the State Electricity Commission of Victoria and Elder Smith Goldsborough Mort Ltd., the two participating bodies, each paying the expenses incurred by its own personnel. The expenses incurred by Elder Smith Goldsborough Mort Ltd. are not available but the cost to the commission, including other engineering and scientific investigations not specifically related to the char mission which were undertaken by the commission representatives while abroad, amounted to $15,942.

MELBOURNE AND METROPOLITAN BOARD OF WORKS ACT.

RATE CONCESSIONS FOR PENSIONERS.

Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown) asked the Miriister for Fuel and Power, for the Minister for Local Government-

Whether any consideration has been given for an amendment to the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works Act 1958 to allow for-( a) a differential rate for pensioners who have been ratepayers to the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works for a period of years, to relieve them of the burden of paying for developmental works for water, sewerage, town planning, and roadworks which they will never use; and (b) restricting the charges to what is actually used for water and sewerage services; if not, whether he would agree to examine the feasibility of the proposal?

Mr. BALFOUR (Minister for Fuel and Power).-The answer supplied by the Minister for Local Government is-

The board has not given consideration to the question of an amendment to its Act to provide for proposals (a) and (b) as set out in the question as adequate provision already exists in section 239E of the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works Act 1958 for the board to remit or excuse any person liable to the payment of rates who in the opinion of the board is in necessitous circumstances.

240 Questions [ASSEMBL Y.] on Notice.

QUEEN VICTORIA MARKET.

DEVELOPMENT OF SITE.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds) asked the Minister for Fuel and Power, for the Minister for Local Government-

1. When the Government intends to make public the plans for redevelopment of the Queen Victoria Market site?

2. What is the composition of the Cabinet sub-committee examining plans for this site and when its findings will be made public?

Mr. BALFOUR (Minister for Fuel and Power).-The Minister for Lo'cal Government has supplied the following answers:-

1. The report of 'the consultants retained by the Melbourne City Council to advise on the redevelopment of the Queen Victoria Market site will be made public soon when the report is presented to the full council.

2. A Cabinet sub-committee was appointed to maintain liaison with the Melbourne City Council committee which has been empowered to make studies of possible redevelopment of the market site. It consists of the Ministers of Agriculture, Local Government, Lands, and Public Works.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds) asked the Minister of Lands-

Whether the Government intends to resume any portion of Crown land known as the Queen Victoria Market site; if so, for what purpose?

Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of Lands) .-The answer is-

The reply to a previous question by the honorable member to the Minister for Local Government will indicate that the future use of the Crown land involved is dependent on the result of current investigations.

COUNTRY ROADS BOARD. WEIGHBRIDGES: ACCURACY: CONVIC

TIONS FOR OVERLADEN VEHICLES.

Mr. B. J. EVANS (Gippsland East) asked the Minister for Fuel and Power, for the Minister for Local Government-

1. Whether weighbridges operated by the Country Roads Board are subject to weights and measures operations; if not, what steps are taken to ensure their accuracy?

2 .. What provision is made for a driver apprehended on a charge of driving a vehicle in excess of load limits to check the weight of a vehicle?

3. How many ·convictions have been obtained in each of the past three years for driving vehicles in excess of legal weight and what amount has been paid in fines?

Mr. BALFOUR (Minister for Fuel and Power) .-The answers supplied by the Minister for Local Government are-

1. All weighbridges operated by the Country Roads Board are subject to the Weights and Measures Regulations under which they are tested and verified regularly by the Weights and Measures Branch.

2. All drivers of vehicles found to be overloaded are invited by the weighing officer to view the weighing, balancing mechanism and read the weight printed on the weighbridge ticket.

3. Convictions and fines in respect of overloaded vehicles for the past three years are:

Year.

1967-68

1968-69

1969:"70

Number of offences in excess of

legal weight.

5,599

6,135

6,120

. HEALTH ACT.

Total fines.

$

262,729

282,948

301,390

STORAGE OF FRUIT AND VEGETABLES.

Mr. KIRKWOOD (Preston) asked the Minister of Health-

Whether he will give consideration to a review of those sections of the Health Act 1958 and regulations which give premises used for the storage or sale of fruit and vegetables, exemptions from structural requirements?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-The answer is-

A review of regulations, including the Food Premises Regulations 1955, is being undertaken at the present time with a view to providing better protection for unwrapped fruit and vegetables exposed for sale.

MELBOURNE AND METROPOLITAN TRAMWAYS BOARD.

PASSENGERS CARRIED: EMPLOYEES.

Mr. TURNBULL (Brunswick West) asked the Minister of Transport-

1. What number of passengers was carried by the Melbourne and Metropolitan Tramways Board during the years 1960, 1962, 1964, 19~6, 1968 and 1969?

Questions [22 SEPTEMBER, 1970.~ on Notice. 241

2. What number of employees left the board's service and how many employees were recruited during each such year?

3. What is the existing shortage of-(a) drivers; and (b) conductors in the establishment of the board?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport) .-The answers are-

As the board's statistics are maintained on a financial year basis rather than by calendar years, the answers which I shall supply refer to the twelve months ending on 30th June in each year.

1. Passengers carried. 1960 209,154,373 1962 198,562,800 1964 192,904,430 1966 165,676,256 1968 153,150,971 1970 133,044,429

2. Excluding temporary employees engaged during the university vacation periods, the number of employees leaving the service and of employees entering the service during the years were-

Year ended 30th June

1960 1962 1964 1966 1968 1970

3. (a) 359' drivers. (b) 158 conductors.

Left service

1928 1276 1603 1464 1153 1223

Entered service

1651 934

1317 1408 1174 1056

NOTE: 100 conductors are trained as drivers and used in either capacity as required.

RAILWAY DEPARTMENT. ST. ALBANS LAND: USAGE.

Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park) asked the Minister of Transport-

What plans the Railway Department has for the utilization of land vested in the department in St. Albans between St. Albans Road ,and Errington Reserve?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport) .-The answer is-

Tenders are to be invited for the leasing of the area.

DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR AND INDUSTRY.

ACCIDENTS INVOLVING MACHINERY.


1. How many accidents involving machinery were reported to the Department of Labour and Industry during each of the past five years?

2. How many reported accidents in each of those years related to circular saws (wood), other wood saws, metal power presses, abrasive grinding and polishing machines, turning and drilling machines, and ropes and belts, respectively?

3. How many inspections were made by departmental officers in each year to investigate the cause or circumstances of these reported accidents?

Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of Labour and Industry).-The answers are-

1 and 2. The records of the department are not kept in such a manner as would enable these questions to be answered. However, the annual report of the department for the year 1969, of which the honorable member has a copy, does show the number of investigations made during that year into accidents associated with the use of certain kinds of machinery.

3. This information is not available either,' but the number of inspections made in connection with the investigation of industrial accidents of all kinds was as follows:-

1965 2,196 1966 2,016 1967 2,132 1968 2,619 1969 3,179

WEEKLY NEWSLETTER.


1. How many copies of the Department of Labour and Industry weekly newsletter are produced?

2. What is the cost of production? 3. What organizations or groups receive

this newsletter? 4. Whether copies are available to mem

bers of Parliament?

Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of Labour and Industry) .-The answers are-

1. There are 360 copies produced each week, including 96 copies for intra-departmental use. . 2. The cost of production, including mailmg, for the last year was $886. It is estimated that increased postal charges will now cause this to rise to about $1,500 per annum and therefore higher rates of subscription will have to be considered.

3. Any organization that pays the annual subscription receives the newsletter.

4. Copies are supplied free to the Parliamentary Librarian, the secretary to the House Committee and the secretary of the Parliamentary Labor Party. Any member may receive a copy by paying the annual subscription.



SHOP TRADING ON SHOW DAY. Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the

Opposition) .-Has the Minister of Labour and Industry been informed that one of Melbourne's largest retail stores will remain open all day on Show Day? Is he aware of the protests that this has occasioned from those responsible for the running of the Royal Agricultural Show, and will this cause the honorable gentleman to consider declaring Show Day a public holiday?

Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of Labour and 'Industry) .--11 am aware from a press report that an appeal has been made by the dire'ctor of the Royal Agricultural Show to representatives of the store concerned asking them to close on that day. The Government presently has under consideration the question of the closing of shops. Although holidays have been the subject of wages board determinations the trading hours of shops is a matter which the Government does control. Future public holidays is a matter which is being considered currently by the Government.

CLOSURE OF SHOPS. Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-Will

the Minister of Labour and Industry inform the House on which days shops must close in Victoria?

Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of Labour and Industry) .-1 am not sure that I am in a position to furnish accurate information to the honorable member for Northcote concerning this matter. Certain of the days concerned are prescribed in legislation other than the Labour and Industry Act; for example, I think the Licensing Act prescribes certain closing days during Easter, and the legislation which deals with the sale of petrol pres'cribes half-day closures on Anzac Day and Good Friday.

Mr. WILKES.-I am thinking of retail stores.

Mr. RAFFERTY.-I think Sunday is a prescribed closing day for retail stores but it would be competent for shops to be open on other days, even on Christmas Day; at present the law does not prescribe a closure on that day. I shall seek further information about this matter and communicate it to the honorable member.

SHOP TRADING ON SHOW DAY. Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Op

position) .-Can the Minister of Labour and Industry state to the House whether or not, as a matter of general principle, the Government agrees that a holiday such as Show Day ought to be maintained?

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-The Leader of the Opposition is asking for an expression of the Government's opinion, and that is out of order.

Mr. HOLDING.-Then I ask the Minister for a statement on Government policy in respect of this matter.

The SPEAKER.-That request is also out of order.

CENSORSHIP. Mr. FORDHAM (Footscray).-In

view of the great significance to the people of this State of the meeting which was held last Friday between Federal and State Ministers who are responsible for censorship, can the Chief Secretary indicate whether a report will be given to this House in relation to the decisions reached at that meeting and, in particular, to the stand taken by Victoria?

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-Concerning the "R" classification for films, Victoria agreed, subject to Cabinet's approval-and I am sure that that will be given-to reduce the number of classifications to three. From memory, they are "Not suitable for children ", "For general exhibition ", and the "R" certificate. With regard to censorship, unanimous opinions were expressed concerning pornography. Unanimous opinions were also expressed by all States, with the


exception of South Australia, regarding Portnoy's Complaint. Representatives of all the States, apart from South Australia, expressed very strong views concerning that matter. South Australia was asked to reconsider the conditions under which it permitted Portnoy's Complaint to be sold-it is restricted there to adults only, and certain other restrictions are imposed by the AttorneyGeneral-and to arrange that copies of Portnoy's Complaint should not be sent by mail to other States.

RAILWAY GUARDS.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-For the benefit of less well-informed members, will the Minister of Transport enumerate the functions performed by railway guards in his department and will he also indicate whether or not he agrees with the somewhat turgent statement of the Premier that he does not see any use for such guards?

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-The last part of the quest!ion is out of order, but the first part is in order.

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport) .-1 ask the honorable m.ember to put the question on notice.

Mr. HOLDING.-Don't you know?

Mr. WILCOX.-I am not responsible for running the railways-that is the clear duty of the Railways Commissioners. If the honorable member will put the question on the Notice Paper I will give him the answer.

SOCIAL WELFARE BRANCH.

Mr. BORNSTEIN (Brunswick East). -Did the Chief Secretary lissue an instruction on Friday, 18th September, to the effect that -all staff leave for officers of the Social Welfare Branch was cancelled for the afternoon of that day? Did the Chief Secretary also request the names of all officers who were absent 'On that afternoon and the reasons for their absence? If not, is the honorable gentleman

aware that such an instruction was issued and can he inform the House who issued it? Was this instruction--

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Order! For an oral question, this appears to be too detailed.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-The answer to the first and second parts of the question is, "No".

MOTOR CAR INSURANCE.

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North).Is the Attorney-General aware of warnings by the Vice-President of the Victorian Automobile Chamber of Commerce, Mr. Kelly, that there are dangers of insurance brokers who are registered for a $3 fee operating in the motor car insurance field unchecked so far as concerns their criminal records and financial security? If so, in the interests of the pub1lic, will the honorable gentleman inform the House of his view of the matter?

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-This question should be directed to the Chief Secretary. The Government shares the concern of the honorable member for Geelong North, and the matter is under investigation to see whether the Government can introduce some form of control in this regard-but not a form of licensing which gives privileges to those who are in and excludes those who might be in.

DIAMOND CREEK EAST AND GREENSBOROUGH SCHOOLS.

Mr. FELL (Greensborough).-Is the Minister of Education in a position to say what type of secondary school will be established at Diamond Creek East and when it will be established and built?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-A review of the secondary school building programme will be carried out in March of next year and the details 'Of this general area will be cons1idered foHowing decisions made then. In relation to the Greenswood High School, which will be


in an area some distance away, I can say that the school will commence in 1971 on its permanent site in the first stage with facilities which will form part of the permanent structure.

SCHOOL GRANTS. Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the

Opposition) .-The Minister of Education having stated publicly yesterday that no State school will receive less under the proposed system. of direct grants than it received previously and that some will receive more, can the honorable gentleman confirm that this is so and state the formula that will be adopted to ensure that State schools, and presumably those which will receive more, will receive additional grants?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-All schools will receive more because the Treasurer has undertaken to make available an additional $1 million to be allocated in this general field. Previously, approximately $2.2 million was allocated to schools under a variety of grants totalling twelve in number. Some grants were made under the subsidy system and some were made in the form of direct grants for works and buildings. These are all being combined into one pool and the money will be allocated to various schools by way of direct grants which can be spent with flexibility by the school committee or school council in conjunction with the principal.

Further, to ensure that no school will receive less than previously, a formula is being established and its terms will be notified to schools over the next few weeks. The old system made an allowance in favour of sm·aller schools, and this will be taken into account. The second criterion to be used will be school population.

MOORABBIN AIRPORT. Mr. DOUB'E (Albert Park).-Pre

viously I asked the Minister of Transport whether he had had any discussions with the Commonwealth Government regarding proposals to

extend the runway at Moorabbin Airport for the purpose of taking jet aircraft, and the honorable gentleman gave an undertaking that he would look into the matter. Is the Minister now in a position to report to the House on it?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport) .-Last Tuesday I said that I would inquire into the matter and inform the honorable member of the result. Inquiries have been made on my behalf and I am expecting to be provided with the necessary information, which will be passed on to the honorable member.

"PORTNOY'S COMPLAINT." Mr. DUNSTAN (Dromana).-I

desire to ask the Deputy Leader of the Opposition--

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie ).-Order! The subject should be stated by the honorable member.

Mr. DUNSTAN.-The subject refers to Portnoy's Complaint.

The SPEAKER.-Order! A question of that type is out of order. Questions addressed to a member who is not a Minister should refer only to matters then being handled in the House by that member.

Mr. DUNSTAN.-I seek your guidance on the point, Mr. Speaker. This matter was raised last week by the Opposition and I regard it as a matter--

The SPEAKER.-Order! The question is out of order.

VICTORIAN TERRITORIAL WATERS.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds).Can the Premier inform the House of the present position concerning discussions between the State Government and the Federal Government in regard to the Federal G'0vernment's proposed legislation to control offshore minerals, and have there been any further discussions in recent months in regard t'0 Victoria's territorial waters?

Questions [22 SEPTEMBER, 1970.J without Notice. 245

Sir HENRY BOLTE (Premier and Treasurer) .-The Attorney-General and the Chief Secretary have been handling this matter, and the honorable member should direct his question to either of those Ministers.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds).I shall redirect the question in that manner. What further discussions have taken place and what attitudes have been adopted by this Government in regard to negotiations with the Federal Government in relation to the Federal Government's proposed legislation for the control of Victorian territorial waters?

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-There have been no direct discussions between the Federal Government and the Chief Secretary, or the Attorney-General, on this matter. Again and again, the Minister of Mines has -clearly indicated Victoria's attitude to this proposed legislation, an attitude which is shared by all States. Yesterday this matter was raised at a meeting of the fisheries conference in Adelaide. In his opening address, the Federal Minister for Primary Industry, Mr. Anthony, who was chairman of the 'conference, referred to the proposed legislation and indicated that he felt it would not substantially interfere with State rights. The reception to this remark from all State Ministers at the conference should have clearly indicated to him and his -colleague, the Minister for the Interior, who was also present, that the attitude of the States was unchanged, and that if it again sees the light of day, the proposed legislation will not only further erode State powers but could leave a legal situation which would take years to resolve. I should like to make it clear that irrespective of politics the State of South Australia is as strong as or even stronger than the other States are on this matter.

STATES GRANTS (MENTAL HEALTH INSTITUTIONS) ACT. Mr. LIND (Dandenong).-I direct

a question to the Minister of Health. Has Victoria taken full advantage of the States Grants (Mental

Health Institutions) Act 1964-67, which is at present before the Federal ParHament for amendment? If SIQ, what amount of money has been received and utilized? If not, how much money has this State failed to coHect?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-1 ask the honorable member for Dandenong to put that question on notice, because it is detailed and relates to the policies of the Federal Government and the State Governments-not just this State Government-and I should like to give an accurate answer.

POSITION OF CHIEF SECRETARY. Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the

Opposition) .-Is the Chief Secretary in a position to deny the allegations which are being made broadly and publicly that owing to difficulties within his department he is being forced to announce his retirement? Does he intend to make the announcement at a Liberal Party dinner?

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Order! The question is out of order.

SCHOOL CROSSING AT DIAMOND CREEK.

Mr. FELL (Greensborough).-I direct a question to the Minister of Education in connection with school crossings. Will the honorable gentleman investigate the existing school crossing at Main Street, Diamond Creek, which has been altered drastically as a result of the construction of a dual highway, with a view to recommending the installation of traffic lights, provided that the local municipality is agreeable?

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-Order! The question should be addressed to the Chief Secretary.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-1 apologize, Mr. Speaker, for not hearing the question as I was engaged in a somewhat acrimonious discussion with the Leader of the Opposition. Perhaps the honorable member could repeat it.

246 Questions [ASSEMBL Y.] without Notice.

Mr. FELL (Greensborough). - I direct the question to the Chief Secretary. With regard to the existing school crossing at Main Street, Diamond Creek, which has been altered drastically as a result of the construction of a dual highway, will the Chief Secretary consider recommending the installation of stop lights, although the traffic count does not measure up to the Traffic Commission's quota requirements?

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-1 am prepared to examine the matter, but I should find it difficult to depart from the warrant issued by the Traffic Commission.

APPRENTICES' TRAVELLING ALLOWANCES.

Mr. CURNOW (Kara Kara).I direct a question to the Minister of Labour and Industry. When does the Minister plan to introduce the payment of travelling allowances for apprentices in the country? Most of these apprentices have to travel long distances to technical schools, and this is a matter of urgency.

Mr. RAFFERTY (Minister of Labour and Industry).-This matter has been drawn to my attention recently by the Apprenticeship Commission, and it is currently under consideration.

MOORABBIN AIRPORT: ADJACENT LAND.

Mr. DOUBE (Albert Park).-I direct a question to the Minister representing the Minister for Local Government. Is the honorable gentleman in a position to inform this House whether a large area of land, to the west of Moorabbin Airport and in a direct line with the proposed new runway, has recently been rezoned for residential purposes?

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-The Minister for Fuel and Power, under whose jurisdiction this matter comes, is looking after a party of Commonwealth Parliamentary

Association delegates in the Latrobe Valley today. I suggest that the honorable member should ask this question again tomorrow.

FOURTH UNIVERSITY.

Mr. J. A. TAYLOR (Gippsland South) .-1 direct a question to the Minister of Educa tion. Bearing in mind the success of the New England University in New South Wales, will the committee which has been set up to investigate the establishment of a fourth university in Victoria give earnest consideration to the siting of the university in a country area?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-This matter forms one of the terms of reference which have already been given to the committee investigating the establishment of the fourth university.

NURSING PROFESSION. Mr. FORDHAM (Footscray).-Can

the Minister of Health advise honorable members when copies will be available to them of the report of the committee established some five years ago to investigate curriculum changes then required in the nursing profession?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-Mr. Speaker, I seek your ruling on this question, which appears on next Tuesday's Notice Paper in another place. I am prepared to answer the question now.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-The question has not been asked previously in this House. It may be asked and answered.

Mr. ROSSITER.-Thank you, Sir. As was indicated in the question, an advisory committee was set up by the Minister of Health in 1965, chaired by Sir Alan Ramsay, to inquire into and report upon nursing in Victoria. I have recently received this report from the committee, and it is now being printed by the Government Printer. When it is in my hands, copies will be circulated to all interested bodies and to members of Parliament.


TEACHERS' COLLEGE FOR WESTERN SUBURBS.

Mr. DOYLE (Gisborne).-I direct a question to the Minister of Education. In view of the concern which has been expressed in my electoratewhich I have relayed to the Minister from time to time-as to the provision of teacher training facilities in the western suburbs, could the Minister indicate what progress is being made towards the provision of these facilities?

Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-Land has been acquired for the purpose of erecting a teachers' college in the western suburban area, in the vicinity of Altona. The date for the erection of this teachers' college has not yet been determined. The sum of $13 million, which it was announced the Government would spend on teachers' colleges over the next three years, will be used to carry out extensions to existing teachers' ,colleges.

CHELTENHAM HOME AND HOSPITAL FOR THE AGED.

Mr. LIND (Dandenong).-Could the Minister of Health inform me whether the two 'latest cases of scabies at the Cheltenham Home and Hospital for the Aged are a continuation of the itches and rashes that have existed there for about 100 years?

Mr. ROSSITER (Minister of Health) .-4t has not yet been established with complete certainty that the latest two outbreaks of what has been alleged to be scabies are in fact scabies. They could be some sort of dermatitis or a skin eruption of some kind. A specialist from the Alfred Hospital is investigating.

ALIENATION OF CROWN LAND. Mr. B. J. EVANS (Gippsland East).

-Will the Minister of Lands inform me whether a directive has been issued that no further Crown lands are to be alienated pending the passing of the legislation to constitute the Land Conservation Council, and the submission of a report from that

body? If this is so, who issued the directive and is it all-embracing or can exceptions be made?

Mr. BORTHWICK (Minister of Lands) .-1 am sure the honorable member has read the Premier's policy speech made in May in which it was stated that all Crown lands in Victoria would be examined by the body to be established by the legislation which I introduced last week. After I was appointed Minister of Lands one of the first matters that came before me was a request by dairy farmer organizations to cease establishing dairy farms in Victoria. I believe there was no objection to the Government's announcement to stop releasing land at Heytesbury and Rochester. One needs to do no more than examine the state of the rural economy to realize that no further farm lands should be made available to the people of Victoria without careful scrutiny.

As a result of approaches from leaders of rural industry and in the interests of that industry, in line with Government policy I personally issued the directive that I was not prepared to consider applications for the development of further farms by the alienation of Crown land until the Land Conservation Council had examined the Crown land position generally and made recommendations in the long term public interest. I made one exception, and that was with applications concerning section 209 of the Land Act which deals with areas of land up to 30 acres to which there is no access other than to the contiguous land owner. I am looking at each of these applications in its own light.

NEW TECHNICAL SCHOOL F'OR GREENSBOROUGH ELECTORATE.

Mr. FELL (Greensborough).-Could the Minister of Education reveal to the House any plans to establish a second technical school within the Greensborough electorate, where it will be located and when it will be built?


Mr. THOMPSON (Minister of Education) .-Honorable members are familiar with the procedure which has been adopted by the Education Department in recent years of drawing up a school building progr.amme in March of each year for the ensuing financial year. Therefore, consideration will be given to the construct1ron of an additional technical school in the Greensborough electorate in March, 1971.

RAILWAY LINE TO V.F.L. PARK.

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North).Can the Minister of TransPoOrt inform the House whether plans are be'ing prepared to construct a spur railway line to service V.F.L. Park, Waverley, and if so when will such a scheme be completed?

Mr. WILCOX (Minister of Transport) .-Last yea'r the Metropolitan Transportation Committee released the metropolitan transportation plan which discloses ov'er-all transportation plans for the Melbourne metropolitan 'area. One of the new railway lines suggested in the plan is f'rom Huntingdale, near V.F.L. Park, to Fern Tree Gul'ly. Obviously, that would be the line to service V.F.L. Park.

Mr. TREZIsE.-:--When will it be built?

Mr. WILCOX.-Tha't is an interesting question.' Priorities have to be determined for all the proposals contained 'in the metropolitan transportation plan, but I promise honorable members that the plan is not" pie in the sky", so to speak, and many of the proOPosals are being ca'rried out. This applies particularly to the South Eastern Freeway and the Tullamarine Freeway. In due course, the proposal referred to by the honorable m'ember for Geelong North wit! be given full consideration.

PETITIONS. DENTAL CLINIC IN GEELONG.

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North) presented a petition froOm certain citizens of Victoria praying that the House will take action to establish a

dental clinic for pensioners and lowincome families in Geelong. He stated that the petition was respectfully worded, in order, and bore 1,500 signatures.

It was ordered that the peVition be laid on the table.

Mr. BIRRELL (Geelong) presented a petition from certain citizens of Victoria praying that the House will take action to establish a dental clinic for pensioners and low-,income families in Geelong. He staled that the petition was respectfully worded, in order, and bore 200 signatures.

It was ordered that the petition be la'id on the table.

ROAD SAFETY COMMITTEE.

COMPULSORY BREATH ANALYSIS TESTS.

Mr. DIXON (St. Kilda) , chairman, presented the fifth progress report from the Road Safety Committee upon an aspect of the alcohol and drug factor-an inquiry into the desirability of compulsoOry breath analysis tests for motor car drivers suspeclted of having a blood alcohol content in excess of .05 per cent.together with minutes of evidence and appendices.

It was ordered that they be laid on the table, and that the report and appendices be printed.

VICTORIA INSTITUTE OF COLLEGES.

VACANCY ON COUNCIL: JOINT SITTING OF PARLIAMENT.

The SPEAKER (the Hon. Vernon Christie).-I have received the following letter from the Minister of Education:-

21st September, 1970.

Dear Mr. Speaker, Section 7 of the Victoria Institute of

Colleges Act 1965 provides that three members of the council shall be members of the Parliament of Victoria who have been recommended for appointment by a joint sitting of the members of the Legislative Council and the Legislative Assembly conducted in accordance with the rules adopted for the purpose by the members present at the sitting.


A vacancy on the council has occurred by virtue of section 14 through the retIrement from the Parliament of the Hon. Samuel Merrifield who had been appointed to the council for a four-year period which expires on the 7th June, 1971. I should .be grateful if you would, in accordance ~~th section 15 of the Act, arrange for a Jomt sitting of the members of the Legislative Council and the Legislative Assembly to recommend a person to fill the vacancy for the unexpired portion of the Hon. Mr. Merrifield's term of office.

Yours sincerely, L. H. THOMPSON,

Minister of Education.

VOTES ON AC~OUNT. The House went into Committee of

Supply for the further consideration of the motion of Sir Henry Bolte (Premier and Treasurer) that a sum not exceeding $152,631,400 be granted to Her Majesty on account for or towards defraying services for the year 1970-71.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-In this Supply debate, the Opposition will follow what seems to have become a fairly established practice. This practice is based on the view that immediately prior to the presentation of the Budget, no good purpose is served by using the Supply debate for a major review of Government policy and the principles apply,ing to Government administration. Thus, members of the Opposition wil'l not treat this debate as being on a major issue of confidence, but will use it to bring to the attention of the relevant Ministers matters which are of immediate concern to them and their electorates and require urgent attention. The Ministers concerned will then have the opportunity to consider the matters raised by honorable members.

Mr. ROSS-EDWARDS (Leader of the Country Party) .-My party concurs with the views expressed by the Leader of the Opposi~ion. A rather unusual situation exists; honorable members are now being asked to approve Supply for the last three months of this calendar year when the Budget has not been presented.

Therefore in this debate members of the Country Party will refer to matters of interest to their electorates.

Mr. EDMUNDS (Moonee Ponds).During the Supply debate it is usual to direct attention to some aspects of Government administration and, in some areas, to request that consideration be given to further Government spending and future allocations of public money. I again refer to the inadequacies of the Moonee Ponds court house, which is over 90 years old. Having been constructed before the turn of the century, the building is steeped in the history of law enforcement of the northern suburbs, but it is now obsolete.

For many years many representations have been made to modernize this building, which is used five days a week as a Magistrates Court. The present facilities 'leave much to be desired. Many people attend court on only one occasion and their first impression of the Moonee Ponds court house is one of inadequacy and inefficiency in the dispensing of justice. Facilitiies for magistrates, justices 'Of the peace and staff are poor. I direct the attention of the Attorney-Genera~ to this matter because, over the years, the honorable gentleman has advised me and my constituents that a new court house will be provided. In his latest communication, the Mini'ster informed me that funds might be included for this purpose in the 1969-70 loan works programme.

The building is now hopeless; for example, in every storm tiles are blown off the roof. As honorable members know, justice must not only be done, but be seen to be done. Therefore, I strongly urge the Attorney-General to consider improving the facilities for dispens1ing justice in the northern suburbs, particularly at the Moonee Ponds court house.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-The Leader of the Opposition has stated that during the Budget debate honorable members will have the opportunity to examine the policies


and administration of the Government, and that in the Supply debate honorable members will discuss matters concerning their electorates. The Budget will be presented soon, but honorable members do not know when.

In my experience as a member of this House, it has been the practice to introduce the Budget in the second week of the spring sessional period. On this occasion the Government has not given the slightest indication of when the Budget will be introduced; in fact, I would not be surprised, if the Budget were not introduced during this sessional period. It is a most unusual situation. No doubt the Premier and Treasurer has many problems to overcome with his colleagues in Canberra.

Mr. JONA.-SO have you.

Mr. WILKES.-Any problems which we have with our colleagues in Canberra are not within cooee of those of the Treasurer. The problems which the Treasurer has with the Liberal Party Government of the Commonwealth and with others in Canberra, who have taken a certain view and, indeed, will take certain action with regard to certain legislation, leave the honorable gentleman in a very invidious position in attempting to bring down a Budget. I do not intend to canvass that argument at present, since there will be ample opportunity to do so during the Budget debate, but I point out that it is unusual for the Com'mittee to be debating Supply for the three months ending on the 31 st December. It means that the Parliament must debate a further Supply Bill covering the period from 31st December until the date on which the Government decides that the House will reassemble in 1971. Despite the presenta'tion 'Of the Supplementary Estimates, there will be another Supply deba te 'later this year, at a date to be determined by the Treasurer. Then honorable members will cover the same ground as that dealt with today in this debate.

Although members of the Opposition will not examine the poHcy of the Government over the past three months, but rather will raise matters which could be dealt with during the period covered by this Supply measure, one cannot help thinking tha t there must be somethjng wrong with the adminis'tration of Victoria. Recently this State has been affected by industrial stoppages more than any other State of Australia. The Governm'ent is responsible for most 'Of these stoppages, and should acknowledge the reasons behind the unrest amongst the staff of semiGovernment instrum'entalities.

Mr. WILCox.-That is a stupid statement.

Mr. WILKES.-Nothing could be more stupid than the Premier's reply to the MuniCipal Officers Association in which he said, "Let them strike every second day". The Premier has made no suggestion concerning conciliation, or of holding round table conferences or talks; he has simply issued a further threat in another provocative statement. Do honorable members consider that to be the way to overcome industrial unrest? There is industrial unrest in this State every day, because the Government refuses to conciliate. Recently, the Chief Commissioner of Police, Mr. Wilby, made a personal approach to the Government and asked it to do something about police salaries, but what happened? The Chief Secretary simply said, "That is not a matter for the Government. It is a matter for the tribunal ".

Mr. WILCOX.-That is correct, is it not?

Mr. WILKES.-Yes, it is, but this Government has a bad record of appearing before tribunals and opposing any application for an increase in the remuneration of police officers, although the increase might assist the Chief Commissioner to improve the efficiency of the Pollice Force and to gain more recruits.

Mr. WILcox.-Have you any evidence of that?


Mr. WILKES.-I shalll turn to that aspect presently. As a result of the Government's attitude towards an increase in police salaries, in addition to having more industrtial unrest than any other State, Victoria has become the most crime-ridden State in the Commonwealth.

Mr. WILCOX.-Why do you not produce figures to justify your rather wild statements?

Mr. WILKES.-The Minister wants figures to justify reality. I should like to address a remark to the Parliamentary Secretary of the Cabinet before he leaves the Chamber. The honorable member wished to ask me a question without notice, which I should have been pleased to answer, concerning something that he must have read in Portnoy's Complaint. I have not read Portno;y's Complaint, since I have had no reason to do so. I asked a question concerning that book and the Assistant Chief Secretary's statement that any person who purchased a copy of the book would be proceeded against for aidiing and abetting. What a ridicu~ous statement for a Minister to make. The honorable gentleman well knows that the Vice Squad could not proceed against anybody purchasing a copy. Thousands of copies have been sold in this State, and no one has been prosecuted.

Mr. DUNSTAN.-The Minister did not say that.

Mr. WILKES.-Then let the Minister deny it. He was reported in the press to have said it.

Mr. DUNSTAN.-Not in Hansard.

Mr. WILKES.-I am not talking about Hansard. I am referring to a statement which was attributed to the Minister, and I point out that he has every right to deny it. If the honorable gentleman has been unjustly treated by the press, let him say so. I do not think he has been unjustly treated.

The control of censorship in this State is very important because a tremendous onus is placed on people

who are not sufficiently informedor, indeed, skilled-to handle this controversial subject. Under the Federal law there is a tribunal to deal with matters of censorship, which 'is not dissimilar to the Indecent Publications Tribunal of New Zea!land. I have examined the operation of that tribunal and had discussions with its chairman, and I know it works very well. However, in the absence of such a tribunal in Victoria, the people of this State are expected to accept the Government's policy. If a book is considered to be obscene or pornographic, the Vice Squad or some senior police officer receives a complaint. Such a complaint can be lodged by any ditizen. Then the police officer goes to the book store and says to the proprietor, "If you continue to sell this book, we will go to a magistrate and get an order". Why is that procedure necessary? The complaint should be investigated by a tribunal or responsible authority so that there can be no doubt whether a book is pornographic or obscene, or whether it will deprave, or have any other effect. At present, the bookseller is put in an invidious position and often it is only natural that, rather than involve himself in lengthy and costly litigation, a bookseller has decided to agree to the wishes of the chief of the Vice Squad or a senior police officer, and withdraw a book from sale.

This is not censorship, and there are many examples of this sort of acti'On. In the case of The Group, the Chief Secretary read out certain paragraphs in Parliament, and not long after that the book was freely 'On sale in this State. The Government ought to review its policy on censorship. If the Government is not prepared to establish a properly constituted tribunal, it should not allow police officers to become the principal censors in the State. Even the procedure of applying to a magistrate before any action is taken is not as satisfactory as methods which are employed in other States.

252 Votes on [ASSEMBLY. ] Account.

It is of no use the Government or the Secretary of the Cabinet asking what members of the Opposition mean when they refer to Portnoy's Complaint. The Opposition is as concerned with Government administration in regard to censorship as it is with other aspects of Government administration. I have already adverted to the tragic situation which exists in the Police Force today. However, I do not wish to canvass that matter further as it can be dealt with more broadly during the Budget debate.

Many other aspects of Government policy and administration could be canvassed by members of the Opposition, particularly by some of the newer members who are now aware of the inadequacies and inefficiencies of this lazy, incompetent Government. No doubt they will refer to these matters during this debate. With the Leader of the OpPosition, I am prepared to give way to my colleagues and allow the Government to listen to some of the more pertinent failures of its administration in the electorates represented by newer members of the Opposition.

Mr. KIRKWOOD (Preston).-I direct attention to a concern which I believe will be felt by a large proportion of the population once they have examined Division 61, which relates to the Valuer-General. The Supply schedule indicates the empire building that has been occurring over the years. Many people will be astounded to find that the ValuerGeneral has a staff of 80 in his head office at Spring Street, Melbourne. Such personnel are employed as advisers or co-ordinators, but the people who· actually do the work are the local valuers in municipalities and shires throughout Victoria.

Mr. WHEELER.-The municipalities used to be advised by outside interests.

Mr. KIRKWOOD.-I do not know what used to happen; I only kno;w what is happening now. On 22nd October next a meeting will be held

at which six municipalities will be represented, and seven officers from the Valuer-General's office will be present to act in an advisory role. To my mind, this is ludicrous and a waste of money. A close examination of the situation should be made and some pruning should occur.

No one can condone the present position with regard to land tax. I doubt whether it was ever intended that land tax should be levied on the ordinary home-owner; I believe it was intended to apply only to large landholders in the State. Today, the maximum valuation before land tax is payable is $6,000, with a few exceptions up to $10,000. However, one has to submit a very good case to be exempted from land tax if the valuation of a property is more than $6,000. Under current conditions $10,000 should be the minimum valuation before land tax is payable. I am sure that no valuer within the metropolitan area would disagree with this contention, and the Government would be well advised to examine this aspect of land valuation.

Increases in land tax have occurred for the valid purpose of enabling the Board of Works to tax the ordinary home owner in the suburbs to finance its programme. This is unjust because municipalities have reached the stage where they will be able to -reduce their rate in the dollar, but I doubt whether the Board of Works will ever be in a position to do so.

Mr. GINIFER.-A three-man board should ,control the Board of Works.

Mr. KIRKWOOD.-I shall not comment upon the type of board that is needed. However, the Government has not done the proper thing by the community.

Probably the Minister of Education, who is present in the Chamber, will be interested in an imposition which affects school teachers who are called up for national service. Th~ Government is in favour of Australian participation in Vietnam and with the method of call-up for national service. During a teacher's two years in


national service his superannuation contributions are paid by the Government. On discharge from the forces and his return to employment in the Education Department, a teacher is required to make a lump sum payment of $400 for those superannuation contributions. This demand by the employer is unjustified, especially in view of the circumstances which force the teacher to leave his employment. Teachers who are called up for national service should be given a fairer deal.

I hope that the Minister of Education, who has a lot of influence in the Government, will give special consideration to the needs of the Preston North-East Primary School, which is situated in an area where many underprivileged people reside. The s'chool site has many outcrops of rock and the department claims that it is the responsibility of the school council to remove the rock whereas I feel that this should be a departmental responsibility.

Mr. GINIFER.-The department builds schools on the 'cheapest land.

Mr. KIRKWOOD.-The interjection is true in relation to secondary and primary schools in the City of Preston. The Preston North-East Primary School should receive special consideration with regard to staff, buildings and out-buildings.

In the West Preston area, the Education Department has acquired a number of homes and two of these buildings are vacant. Nothing is being done with them at the moment, which I 'consider to be maladministration by the department. The schools are crying out for additional space and the children are being crowded into small areas. Surely, the administration could do something with these assets rather than allow the buildings to be hide-aways for derelicts at night and a danger to children who play in them, particularly where panes of glass remain in position and the floors are so rotten that children can fall through them and break or gash a leg.

There are a number of matters which the Government should examine.

Mr. DIXoN.-Where did you say the school was located?

Mr. KIRKWOOD.-I refer to the Preston West Primary School, No. 3855. I stress again that land tax is a most important subject and revision of its incidence would render great service to the ordinary home owner. I am pleased to observe that the Minister of Education is taking notes. I presume that the Preston West Primary School will get what it is seeking.

Mr. FELL (Greensborough).-Because of lack of liaison between the Traffic Commission and municipalities great injustice is occuring in expenditure. In the Shire of Diamond Valley there are intersections which, because of special circumstances including topography, require the installation of warning signalling devices to indicate the existence of dangerous crossroads. The Traffic Commission appears to take no account of the circumstances and simply says that the intersections do not measure up to its requirements. In such a situation the municipality is required to act illegally. The commission has power to consider the merits of a particular application rather than just how many vehicles are damaged or how many dead bodies are strewn on the road.

Mr. WHEELER.-Have there been any accidents yet?

Mr. FELL.-Yes, at the intersection of Delta Road and N epean Street, in the heart of Watsonia. This crossing should be fully controlled, but at present warning is given by a small sign which is all that is allowed at present.

I refer now to the Police Force to point out that insufficient money is being spent on it. In the electorate of Greensborough there is one policeman to 4,000 people. The recommended proportion is one policeman to 700 persons, and in the United Kingdom it is one to 532, which is far removed from the Greensborough situation.

254 Votes on [ASSEMBL Y.] ACCOWlt.

Mr. TURNBULL.-It is one policeman to 20,000 in Pascoe Vale.

Mr. FELL.-That area is worse off than Greensborough, where the pOlice station is like a little dog-box. The station, which is about onetwentieth of the size of this Chamber, is located in the middle of the shopping centre. It accom~odates four policemen who are requIred to attend to the many inquiries made of them. Members of the local community, the chamber of co~merce, the council of the Shire of DIamond Valley and every responsible citizen, as well as the policemen, consider that the station should be resited away from the shopping centre, where there is no suitable space for the parking of cars. This ridic.ulous situation requires urgent consIderation and I shall be taking it up with the Chief Secretary.

A further point is that existing schools are not being properly maintained. I am not speaking of new buildings, but of the danger to life and limb of students at older schools. In particular I refer to t~e Ple':lty Primary School, w~ere on Insper:tlOn I found that, despIte answers gIven by the Minister of ~ducation .to. questions directed to hIm, there IS In the corridor adjacent to the entry to one of the class-rooms a switchboard which is improperly fixed at a level which allows it to be touched by the students. There is no lock on the door. The fuse panel in the structure is loose and at the rear of the panel are bare wires with which contact can be made. Furthermore, the windows do not work properly because they are jammed throu~h lack of maintenance thus creatmg a fire hazard as the children would be trapped in the school if a fire occurred in the old weatherboard building.

Mr. WHEELER.-A letter should be written to the department.

Mr. FELL.-I have already written, but the matter is being shuffled between the Education Department and the Public Works Department. An honorable member who wishes

to have a question answered must write first to the Minister of EdUcation, who endeavours to provide the appropriate answer. Some matters may be referred to the Minister of Public Works and, if one is lucky, an answer will be received in six months. In one case, a school has been told not to write any more as it will not receive an answer. I urge close liaison between these two departments to correct any anomalies that may arise and to avoid bogging down in administration: Both Ministers appear to have theIr own department's interests at heart. There is no reason why they should not get together to provide quick answers to the matters submitted to them. If the Government corrects the matters to which I have referred there will be an improvement in the functioning of the two departments; if not, they will continue as they have in the past.

Mr. TREZISE (Geelong North).Following the presentation to the House today of two petition~, bearing the signatures of apprOXImately 2,000 people in the Geelong area on the subject of dental clinics for elderly citizens, I refer to Division 75-Health Administration. Dental care for pensioners and other needy people is required urgently not only in the Geelong area but in every part of the State. At present dental care for public patients outside the metropolitan area is almost non-existent. The present procedure requires those who need new dentures or repairs to dentures at the Melbourne Dental Hospital to travel to the city. Because of their phy., sical condition, it is difficult for many elderly people to travel long distances. After making application those who are able to travel may receive, after three or four days, a rail concession and then have to take a chance on the weather. In many cases, elderly people must find an escort to travel with them to Melbourne, which can be a long and tiring journey involving many hours. Many people seeking dental care at the Melbourne Dental Hospital are forced to wait up


to fourteen months for their requirements. In some instances, therefore, many aged people are unable to eat the food they need for their basic diet in the meantime and consequently may suffer malnutrition effects.

Dental clinics should be decentralized throughout the State, as they are in other States, notably Queensland. A recommendation to this effect was made to the Government by the Dental Advisory Committee. Other centres in Victoria, such as Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo, Warrnambool, Bairnsdale and Mildura, which have public hospitals, could be bases for such State dental clinics. The clinics could provide a dental service for the people of these centres; mobile units could visit the outlying districts periodically and provide such facilities. At present services of this type are provided solely for the metropolitan area.

A similar situation applies in relation to school children, many of whom, particularly those in provincial cities, are denied the use of the State school dental service which was available in pre-war days. Service of this type is now provided almost exclusively to those in the metropolitan area. Some mobile units visit the sparsely-populated centres of the State, but the Government's policy, as enunciated by the Minister of Health, is to provide a school dental service only to country children who do not live within 25 miles of a private dentist. The Government's attitude in this respect is hypocritical, as children in Melbourne certainly live closer than 25 miles to a private dentist.

If it is good enough for Melbourne children to have a school dental service, it is good enough for the children in the country areas to enjoy the same benefit. On a State-wide percentage basis, the number of dentists in the metropolitan area compared with the number of dentists in the non-metropolitan area reveals a discriminating position. The official statistics released in 1968 show that in the metropolitan area there is one

dentist to every 2,500 people, whereas in the non-metropolitan areas, there is one dentist to every 5,400 people. Although it is claimed by Government members that this State is progressing rapidly, the dental facilities, to mention only one subject, available outside the metropolitan area are constantly declining.

Overall, what would it cost to establish dental clinics throughout the State? In the Supply schedule, an amount of $10 million has been allocated for the administration of the Department of Health for the next three months. The report of the Dental Advisory Committee reveals that the cost of establishing a clinic in a non-metropolitan centre would be a mere $17,000, one half of which relates to the capital expenditure required for the initial establishment of the surgery. Members representing the non-metropolitan areas of the State, and particularly those in the provincial cities of the State, endorse the recommendations submitted to the Government in September, 1969, by the Dental Advisory Committee. In particular, I refer to the recommendation which states-

That dental clinics, financed by the Hospitals and Charities Commission, be established in the major non-teaching metropolitan hospitals, base hospitals, and other larger country hospitals. Treatment in these clinics should be restricted to pensioners and indigent persons, including children of school age, who are eligible for public hospital care. In rural centres without a practising dentist non-public patients may be treated and fees chargeable should be at the current rates applied by the Repatriation Department.

In recent years, pensioners in non-metropolitan areas, particularly from the Geelong area, have protested to the Government concerning the inadequacy of dental services in the country. Petitions on this question have now been presented to Parliament. I trust these expressions of protest will at long last awaken the Government to the urgent need for action which will provide proper dental facilities for needy people in non-metropolitan areas.


Mr. TURNBULL (Brunswick West). -The fact that the Premier and Treasurer has not yet delivered his Budget speech narrows down what could be said during the debate on Supply. Furthermore, I find it somewhat frustrating-I do not know whether it is done deliberately-that there is often some delay by the Minister of Education in answering questions asked on notice. The obJect of members asking questions on notice is to ensure that the matters which arise in relation to schools in the various electorates are properly put before the House. I should like to have dealt with several matters during this debate, but I am unable to do so because the Minister of Education did not supply until 5.25 p.m. today the answers to questions which were asked last week.

Mr. THOMPSON.-The officers in my department are extremely busy.

Mr. TURNBULL.-The Minister of Education complains that the officers in his department are busy, but so also are Parliamentarians and, I suppose, many other people in the community. The Minister is duty bound to give members prompt answers to questions which have been addressed to him in Parliament. If the honorable gentleman feels that the questions are unnecessarily wide in scope and that the replies would take some time to p'repare, he should inform the honorable member who asked the questions of the position.

I should like to deal with certain aspects relating to the Workers Compensation Board. The AttorneyGeneral will agree with me that the amounts of compensation which are at present payable were fixed as far back as 1965. It is evident from an examination of the consumer price index that in this year alone prices have increased by 5 per cent. The Attorney-General would find it interesting to examine the miserable amounts of compensation which were fixed in 1925.

Mr. REID.-The workers' compensation legislation is administered by the Chief Secretary.

Mr. TURNBULL.-I did not suggest otherwise. I said that as a lawyer the Attorney-General was familiar with the fact that inadequate compensation was determined by the 1965 Act. There is no doubt that that compensation has been eroded by the failure of the Government to direct its attention to prices of food and other commodities, and to items such ,as rates paid to the local municipal council or to the Board of Works. Workers compensation has been eroded by the Government's failure to interest itself in persons who could be said to be in the long thin poverty line. In later debates I intend to discuss the plight of these persons, many of whom are widows of deceased workers and who, because they have young families, are unable to work and add to the family income. Some assistance should be given to these people.

Mr. SCANLAN.-Would you be happy if the Government substantially amended the Workers Compensation Act?

Mr. TURNBULL.-Not if the amendments were adverse to the worker. I have no doubt that the honorable member is eager to take away from the worker the benefits of the Act. The amounts payable under the Workers Compensation Act to widows and dependants of deceased and injured workers should be revised. A newspaper article stated-

Economists in Melbourne have drawn the poverty line for an average family of two adults and two children at $42.40 as at June, 1970.

Many persons who are receiving insuffi'cient workers ,compensation payments are in that group.

In regard to South West Brunswick Primary School, Daly Street, Brunswick West, complaints have been made by the school committee without success. It occupies a 2-storey building which the Metropolitan Fire Brigades Board has reported as being a grave fire risk. The board has said that, if a fire broke out, children attempting to


descend from the second floor would be suffocated or overcome by smoke. This dangerous situation is permitted to continue. Nevertheless, without consideration of need or priority, a considerable number of new buildings-not State schools-are being constructed with Government funds. My plea is that the same type of progress which is evident at nonGovernment schools should be made at needy State schools. I should be happy to accompany the Minister on an inspection of schools in the street in which I reside in Pascoe Vale. Honorable members can appreciate how depressed I am when I see these magnificent non-Government school buildings being erected with Government finance while State schools are depressed, overcrowded and situated on inadequate sites.

Mr. WHEELER.-You did not poll too well in the south-west area of Brunswick West.

Mr. TURNBULL.-I had an absolute majority for the first time. The honorable member for Essendon lives in my electorate, but, instead of attending to the needs of his constituents, he sneaks round my electorate.

One of the many school committees of which I am a member is that of the Pascoe Vale South Primary School, which is close to the new Tullamarine Freeway. I visited the new Melbourne Airport at Tullamarine on Sunday but, although many people were there, few aeroplanes bringing overseas visitors to Victoria were evident.

Mr. WHEELER.-At one time you said that Tullamarine Freeway was a concrete monstrosity.

Mr. TURNBULL.-That is so, and I repeat it. The sum of $35 million which that project cost could have been much better expended in providing a new university at Wangaratta or Shepparton, or some other -country centre. I should have been pleased if members of the Country Party could have complimented the Government on the establishment of a rural

university which is urgently required to enable country ,children to enjoy the privileges available to children in the city.

Last, but not least, I refer to the subject of rent control about which I asked a question recently in this House. The Attorney-General gave me an undertaking that some action would be taken. In the electorate which I represent, many dirty old houses are being let for $18 or $20 a week. Some tenants have appealed to the Metropolitan Fair Rents Board but have subsequently received notices to quit and have had to seek the same type of accommodation elsewhere. Some extravagant rents are being -charged in the inner suburbs. Many age pensioners live in dirty, dark rooms in the back streets of West Brunswick for which they pay up to one quarter of their pension each week. The result is that they are -compelled to exist on inadequate food and to live a precarious life. I hope that when the Budget is debated I shall have answers to the questions which I have posed so that I will be in a position to enlarge on some of the matters that I have raised.

So far as the Pascoe Vale Primary School is -concerned, the Minister for Local Government advised the Coburg council that an over-pass would be provided in Coonans Road to enable children from both private and State schools to cross safely. That was in 1966 and I am stiB communicating with the Minister. Of course the hono!able gentleman has gone 'back on hIS word and the matter remains in abeyance. It is known locally that with the construction of the freeway this is a dangerous area for school children. Motorists proceed along this street, which children have to cross to get to the school, at speeds approximating 45 miles an hour. The construction of the freeway has increased traffic in the area and many people from the northern suburbs use the freeway to gain access to the city. The Minister for Local Government is aware of the danger. Everything else


has been pushed aside for this socalled elegant freeway. As the motorist comes over the new bridge in Reynard Street he is unable to obtain a clear view of the traffic lights opposite the school. This problem could be solved by the installation of overhead lights at the crossing.

One must have some sympathy for the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works, which is bankrupt. More than 65 per cent of the board's income is used to pay interest on loans that it has raised. The Government should bear the total cost of constructing these new roads in the same way as it meets the interest liability on headworks constructed by the State Rivers and Water Supply C'Ommission. There are no complaints about the Government's actions in that regard and there is no reason why the Government should not adopt a similar policy for road works undertaken by the Board of Works.

Mr. B. J. EVANS (Gippsland East). -This is the first opportunity I have had to congratulate you, Mr. Chairman, on your election as Chairman of Committees. This is a significant appointment because with the change of political balance in the Parliament, following the recent electi'Ons, it is more important than ever before that. the presiding officers should protect the interests of private members. You are well known among honorable members for the zealous way in which you stand up for the rights of private members and we are con· fident that you will maintain that attitude during your term of office as Chairman of Committees. It appears as though a pattern is being established in these appointments because the honorable member f'Or Ivanhoe had the temerity to vote against the Government before he was elected Speaker. I wish you well during your occupancy of the chair.

During questions without notice today, I asked the Minister of Lands a question about a directive that no further Crown lands were to be alienated pending the passing of

legislation the appointment of the Land Conservation Council and an investigation by that body of the future use of Crown land throughout Victoria. This directive has many unfair ramifications because it has been made arbitrarily. The Minister has taken upon himself the responsibility of refusing to administer his department within the powers provided in the Land Act. Under that Act the honorable gentleman has the power, after certain consideration, to permit areas of Crown land to be alienated for various purposes. From the Minister's reply to my question one would have thought the only primary producers in Victoria were dairy farmers because the honorable gentleman made no reference to other types of farming. He seemed to think that any Crown land which might be alienated under the Land Act in future would be used for dairying.

Mr. STEPHEN.-The Minister did not say that.

Mr. B. J. EVANS.-No, but it was clearly implied in the reply to my question. I should like t'O refer to several aspects of this matter. Many of the people who seek additional land are not engaged in dairying. They want the additional land to enlarge their properties for beef production. Hon'Orable members know that beef is not being over-produced, and this is a field to which many primary producers are being advised to tum. In many cases the only opportunity a dairy fa.~er ma~ !:tave to diversify is by obtamIng addItl~nal land and using it for beef productIOn.

Farmers are continually being urged by the Commonwealth Minister for Primary Industry to diversify their production, but they are unable to do so because they have insufficient land. Therefore, if an area of Crown land is not being used for forest production, surely it is logical to. J!l~ke that land available to the adJoInmg landholder in order that he may change from dairy farming to beef production, as the Commonwealth Government is urging him t'O do. The directive issued by the Minister of


Lands seems to be flying in the face of the Federal Government. Therefore, I urge the Minister to reconsider his attitude.

Furthermore there will be a considerable lapse of time between the passing of this legislation, the establishment of the council, the holding of an inquiry, the making of recommenda Hons and the adoption of those recommendations by the Government. In the areas in the State which are considered last by the Land Conservation Council many years could elapse before the recommendations are adopted.

Now I wish to refer to a regulation proposed by the Department of Health providing that knackeries set up for the purpose of processing animals which die on a farm or butchering those that are injured on a farm must provide drying plants or rendering down equlipment before dead animals can be taken on to the premises. The proposed regulation is intendered to circumvent the possibility that this meat might be used for human consumption. It is essential that action be taken to avoid this possibility, but surely there must be some better way of doing it than requiring installation of most expensive equipment. Knackeries provide a useful services to farmers.

Farmers may suffer severe losses amongst stock, and it 'is not uncommon for eight or nine cows to be lost overnight from bloat. The financial loss is serious enough, but if the farmer has to bury these animals, it is a case of adding insult to injury. If a knackery is established in the diistrict, the operator will remove the carcasses free of charge, and save the farmer a great deal of work.

I have had representations from many organizations within my e~ectorate asking that opposition be expressed to the proposed regulation. I have received letters from the Central Gippsland District Council of the Victorian Farmers Union and varlious municipalities seeking a better system of controlling this problem than by the proposed regulation. The

knackeries which have been established in Gippsland in recent years provide a worth-while service to the farming community, and it would be a retrograde step for the Government to promulgate a regulation which would prevent the efficient carrying on of their operations.

Mr. DIXON (St. Kilda).-The Government of Victoria has two most onerous responsibilities, firstly, to ensure that the citizens can live and secondly, to ensure, as far as possible, that persons are not injured. Life is a most sacred possession, and road accidents cost money. It has been estimated that, in Victoria, road accidents have cost over $100 million and, because they are so widespread, they also cause great distress to many people.

Much publkity is given to the fact that a person may be hanged, and that the lives of Australians are lost fighting in wars outside the Commonwealth 'Of Australia. But such publicity is not given to the common phenomenon that people kill themselves and others, inflict serious injuries on themselves and others, and cause grea t property damage which some~imes people can ill afford. Honorable members are aware of these facts; they are of grave importance. But how often has this subject been debated in this Chamber in terms of it'S true significance and worth? How often has a serious statement been made about what is going to be done in Victoria to reduce road accidents and to prevent injuries that are occas'ioned by those accidents?

The Government set up the Road Safety Committee to make reports and recommendations to Parliament on this matter. Parliament has a responsibility that is not easily shaken off. The Road Safety Committee has made five reports on the subject of road safety. Firstly, it recommended that there should be annual roadworthiness 'checks of vehicles. Secondly, it suggested the introduction of a pOints demerits system. Thirdly, it recommended the compulsory wearing of seat belts. Fourthly


and fifthly, it brought down two relatively minor reports on t.he question of alcohol and dealt With blood and breath tests. The committee recommended the closing of certain loopholes appertaining to alcohol and driving.

What is being done about the two major reports that were placed before Parliament concerning annual roadworthiness inspections of vehicles and the compulsory wearing of seat belts? I emphasize that a scientific approach is necessary in dealing with the subject of road safety. No longer can we content ourselves with talking about beliefs. The first report of the Road Safety Committee contended that the availability of research and 'evidence required to establish some degree of accident causation was practically non-existent. Unfortunately, this situation exists thr?u~hout Australia. For the most part It IS not known whether research done in other parts of the world is applicable to the Australian situation. Where this has been done and the result incorporated in the c~mmittee's report, it has been largely Ignored.

Road safety should be dealt with on a scientific basi'S. Perhaps statistics could be produced to show that if annual roadworthiness tests were introduced, the accident rate would be improved. I suggest that, on the available evidence, certainly some improvement would be effected. No one knows to what degree the situation would be improved until this system has been brought into effect and the results evaluated. The first step that must be incorporated in any future programme to attack the road toll is a scientific evaluation. It must be known whether the steps that have been taken are effective, and what they cost the community. !he c~st and effectiveness of a polIce blItz should be known; also whether money could be better spent elsewhere. Can any honorable member give me answers to those points? What is the cost of 'its enforcement by the Police Force? What does it cost by itself,

Mr. Dixon.

compared with what it gives in return in terms of road safety? What do pedestrian crossings and divided highways cost and what do they return in terms of accident prevention? N ei ther I nor any other honorable member of this House nor, in fact, anybody in Victoda knows. If a person wishes to enter into busin~ss selling various items of merchandIse, the first thing he needs to know is which are the items that sell best and return the most profit, and he discards other items. Should not a similar attitude be adopt~d in relation to road safety? Should we not ask ourselves what is and what is not effective? Although I do not for a moment suggest that this is a simple matter, I do suggest that it must be done if we are to go some way towards solving the problem with which Victoria is faced.

On the ques'tion of road worthiness, at par.agraph 117 of its report the committe suggested that because unroadworthy vehicles had caused some accidents and had contributed to a large number of others, it was n'Ot unrealistic to believe that annual vehicle inspections would effect a reduction in the number of acoidents of at least 2 per cent, and, all things being equal, could possibly effect a reduction of 10 per cent.

M'r. WILKEs.-Are you suggesting that the tests should be more thorough than the present ones?

Mr. DIXON.-I am not discussing the technicalities of the tests; I am talking about a scientific evaluati'On of a generalized annual roadworthy test.

Dr. Campbell, Director of the Highway Research Cent~e at the University of North Carohna, wrote a paper entitled "Highway Safety Programme-Evaluation and Research" in which he stated-

The cost-effectiveness forecast for vehi.cle inspection leads to a demand for preventmg 4 per cent of all North Carolin~ crashes. Whether this is attainable remams to be seen.

The forecast approach helps to put other programmes in perspective .as to wh~lt they must produce in order to carry theIr own weight in an operational sense.


In this State we have a perfect 'Opportunity to put into effect this roadworthiness programme which would cost Victorian motorists approxima tely $2 million, if, for example, 1 million vehicles were tested and each test cost $2. If this system of vehicle testing were introduced, whatever percentage reduction it achieved could be ascertained. In its report the committee stated that, at a minimum, there would be a reduction of 2 per cent in the number 'Of accidents but if there are annual tests-and perhaps the tests should be more thorough and should be rigidly inspected-it may be found that a reduction of 10 per cent is achieved.

Various statistics contained in the report of the Road Safety Committee indicate that there could be percentage reductions of up to 20 per cent. I have some doubt about the accuracy of some of the figures, but the percentage improvement indicated for Sweden is 28 per cent. In respect of the United States of America the report states at page 6-

In the United States of America, the most authoritative figures provided by the reporting road toll authorities indicate 11 per cent causation for 1966. If this scheme were implemented and scientifically evaluated, it might be found that annual roadworthiness tests had resulted in a saving of 10 per cent or 11 per cent. Let no honorable member say during this debate that because New South Wales has a bigger road toll than Victoria, it is a prima facie reason why annual tests should not be introduced in this State, because accidents depend upon a hundred different factors.

A scheme which involves annual roadworthy testing of vehicles should be introduced in the sure knowledge that it will be scientifically evaluated; in other words, that a controlled group of vehicles-perhaps 1,000, 5,000, or even 500,000-will be subjected to an annual roadworthy test, and that the vehicles of another controlled group of the same size will

Session 1970.-12

not be subjected to the test. I am not an expert at designing the way in which evaluation studies should be carried out, but there are experts in that field in Victoria, and it behoves the Government to attack this problem seriously and genuinely, for, bearing in mind the road toll in Victoria, it is one which cannot be ignored.

I turn now to the question of seat belts. The committee considered the problem of road safety for almost four years. There is only one solution to this prob1lem that has been the subject of scientific evaluation: It is to make it compulsory for people to wear seat bellts. I ask honorable members to think of somebody they know who has been killed in a road accident, and to remember the effect that his death had upon the family involved.

The Snowy Mountains Authority found that within three years of the installation of seat belts, its vehicles had travelled 16 million miles and that no wearer of a diagonal belt had lost a single day from work as the result of an accident and only one wearer of a lap belt had lost any time, although in the three years prior to the installation of seat belts there were two deaths and ten serious injuries most of which had resulted from accidents in which vehicles had overturned and rolled down a mountainside.

The Road Safety Committee asked the Victoria Police Force whether it was true or false that seat belts would save lives, and at page 8 of its report the committee states-

At the request of the committee, a Victoria police survey was held into accidents in which 30 passengers and 40 drivers were killed on Victorian highways during the period from 20th December, 1968, to 19th January, 1969. Of these 70 fatalities, only two were wearing seat belts.

The Icommittee asked the Victoria Police Force to make an assessment of the remaining 68 fatalities and inform it what they genuinely thought about those accidents. The assessment indicated that in the opinion

262 . Votes on [ASSEMBLY.] Account.

of the police officer who attended the accidents, if seat belts had been worn by the remaining 68 victims, injuries to 21 would not have been fatal. The figure of 21 represents nearly one third, and I do not desire to go as high as that; I am prepared to contend that 20 per cent of non-pedestrian deaths· in road accidents could be obviated by legislation properly enforced in the way recommended by the Road Safety Committee. I do not know what is being done and I only wish that I could find out, because this is such a grave problem. The assessment also indicated that injuries to 33 persons would have been fatal. It was not known whether the fatal injuries to the other fourteen persons would have been affected by the wearing of seat belts.

Another interesting point 'concerning the compulsory wearing of seat belts is that while it certainly does not behove the Government to adopt the recom'mendations of the Road Safety Committee in totO', there are many ways in which the report could be interpreted and utilized. In a paper entitled "Facial Disfigurement-A Plea for Safety Belts" by Mr. Bernard O'Brien, B.Sc., M.S. (Melb.), F.R.C.S. (Eng.), F.R.A.C.S., which was published in the Medical Journal of Australia, in 1965, the following table on injury frequency appears:-

Front seat passenger 78 per cent. Driver 11 per cent.

. Back seat passenger 11 per cent.

If it is considered too difficult to compel all 'car owners to have seat belts ,fitted in the back seats of their vehicles or that it is too diffi'cult to compel passengers to wear them, at least some attempt should be made to for'ce front seat passengers to wear seat belts.

Mr. MUTToN.-How can they be made to wear them?

Mr. DI~ON.-If this were the law, a great majority of law abiding citizens would abide by it. I realize that many honorable members do not wear seat belts and in fact I am an

offender in this regard, but since I have been a member of the Road Safety Committee I have worn them much more frequently. If the wearing of seat belts were compulsory, I suggest that very few honorable members would disregard the law. If it became the law, it would become the norm. Admittedly, it would take some time to educate the public, and in its recommendations the Road Safety Committee has allowed for this.

I shall examine the recommendations of the committee. The first recommendation was the fairly obvious one that vehicles ought to be fitted with seat belts. The second was that there ought to be an intensive educational campaign for a minimum period of twelve months and a maximum period of two years aimed at educating the public on the value of seat belts. The third recommendation was that learner and probationary drivers and occupants of motor vehicles under the 'control of Government departments and instrumentalities should be required to wear seat belts. It is reasonable that probationary and learner drivers should be made to wear seat belts .. Surely, honorable members will agree that it is even more reasonable for the Government, having had the benefit of this report, to give the lead and require departments to issue an ultimatum that their officers must wear seat belts.

It has been put to me that Government departments cannot do this because it would not be possible to dis'cipline members of their staffs for not wearing seat belts. To my mind, this is a puny excuse; adequate remedies are available to the heads of departments to ensure that the public servants under their control shall wear seat belts. It is a question of whether one takes this matter seriously. As the honorable member for Ringwood once remarked from the front bench, a person can drive around for 35 years and on the average can expect to be involved in only one serious accident, so who is going to wear his seat belt? On the other


hand, I 'cannot help but be impressed by the fact that over 1,000 deaths occur on the road each year, and therefore I am prepared to suffer the inconvenience of wearing a seat belt for 35 years because one never knows when one's serious accident will occur -it might be tomorrow.

I should not like the Government to embark upOn this proposal without satisfying itself that the statistics produced by leading authorities all over the world are applicable to Victoria. I have already suggested that a scientific evaluation should be built into the annual roadworthiness inspections and that there should also be a scientific evaluation of the compulsory wearing of seat belts. If a measure such as this is adopted, the Government will have available a scientist who will examine control groups and be able to evaluate the cost-benefit ratio.

One could say many things about the complex and complicated subject of road safety. One important aspect is the relationship between alcohol and driving. However, speaking as one who has been involved in the road safety field for four years, I can guarantee that the compulsory wearing of seat belts will be an effective measure in reducing the road toll.

Passive restraints are another development. The principle of a passive restraint is that in an impact a bag inflates in front of the driver and holds him in position. A couple of difficulties are involved, in that the inflation of the bag causes a loud bang which may be disconcerting to the driver, and that it does not necessarily prevent his ejection, nor does it prevent him from moving from side to side; it only prevents him from moving forwards into the windscreen. These passive restraints and devices will be invented from time to time and one also hopes that some improvement can be effected in the design and operation of seat belts because in their present form they are inconvenient. It ought to be possible for them to be built into the vehicle. Legislation making compulsory the

wearing of seat belts should stimulate car manufacturers to produce better, more comfortable and convenient belts capable of being adjusted to various positions by the mere pressing of a button. If the Government wants to do something about the appalling road toll, it should act along the lines that have been recommended to this Parliament by its properly appointed committee, or at least state why it proposes not to act.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-I congratulate the chairman of the Road Safety Committee, the honorable member for St. Kilda, upon voicing the views of that committee on measures which should be taken by the Government to reduce the road toll. Unfortunately, the honorable member for St. Kilda knows that the Government does not propose to do anything that is not punitive. I agree that a scientific evaluation is required, but until now the Government has only been prepared to increase penalties and introduce other harsh measures which have had little effect on the Victorian road toll.

Brea thalyzers and speed measuring devices are being used. When they were introduced by this Government it was contended by the Opposition that they would be used for the purpose of raising revenue, not to reduce the road toll. This prediction has been proved correct again and again. The police use the speed measuring devices at places where it is easiest to catch motorists exceeding the 35 miles per hour speed limit. The devices are useless, and the Government should pay heed to the pleas of the honorable member for St. KHda, who has been courageous enough to tell the Government that it should do something about the road toll. He is the only member on the Government side of the Chamber prepared to show any interest in this debate.

For fifteen long, dreary years the Opposition has been pointing out these matters to the Government, but it has done nothing about them. The Government took action which led to


the appointment of the Road Safety Committee, but it does not propose to take cagnizance af that cammittee's recammendations. It was all very well far the Gavernment to intraduce the paints demerit system, which the Raad Safety Cammittee felt might deter the persistent bad driver, but that system appealed to. the Gavernment because it cantained a punitive element. The Gavernment has been reluctant to. accept the advice af the hanarable member far St. Kilda or the Road Safety Cammittee an any measure that might interfere with its supparters.

Taday I received answers to. questians I asked Ilast week af the Chief Secretary. Althaugh the hanarable member far St. Kilda has said that ane af the respansibilities af the Gavernment is to. see that peaple can live, the raad tall is nat the only way in which a person may be prevented fram living. The greedy attitude af the Gavernment in regard to. widaws and unmarried mathers, and children af widaws and unmarried mathers, is demanstrated by its discantinuance af payments to. supplement assistance given by the Cammanwealth Government. The questians I asked af the Chief Secretary were-

1. What was the cost to the Government in making payments to widows and unmarried mothers, respectively, in each of the past three financial years and until the Government discontinued such payments?

2. What was the reason for the discontinuance of these payments? The answers pravided by the Chief Secretary were-

1 and 2. The statement is incorrect that the Government has discontinued payments to unmarried mothers. In fact, higher payments are now being made to many more applicants in this class and will continue. Such payments are subject to 50 per cent reimbursement from the Commonwealth under its States Grants Act, but ithe net cost to the State has increased considerably. The Chief Secretary did nat pravide any figure far the increased cast, nar did he state the additianal payments being made by the State to. these peaple, but went an to say-

Discontinuance of supplementary assistance for the children of parents receiving full Commonwealth pension, including

Mr. Wilkes.

widows, will operate from 30th September, 1970. This intention, and the 'reasons for it, were announced twelve months ago in the 1969-70 Budget speech and all recipients were notified at that time.

The table which follows shows the estimated costs of State payments to these classes over the periods 1st July, 1969 to 30th June, 1970; 1st July, 1970 to 30th September, 1970; and 1st October, 1970 to 30th June, 1971. Bases are not available for estimates over preceding years. As these figures indicate, 'the Government's increased payments to unmarried mothers and their children will greatly exceed savings accruing from discontinuance of supplementary assistance for the children of pensioners.

Class.

Children of

Estimated State Payments.

Expected Full Year Quarter over Three 1st July, 1st July, Quarters

1969 to 30th 1970 to 30th 1st October, June, 1970. Sept., 1970. 1970 to 30th

June, 1971.

$ $ $

widows, invalid and age pensioners. . 219,900 48,000 Nil

Unmarried mo-thers and children 129,400* i 132,600* 895,000*

* Net cost, allowing for reimbursement from Commonwealth pursuant to States Grants (Deserted Wives) Act 1968.

That is rubbish. I paint aut to. hanarable members that the net cast af these supplementary payments to. unmarried mathers and children far ane year was $129,400. ,Far that miserable Sum the Gavernment decided to. say to. unmarried mathers and children, "We will take 20 cents ar 30 'cents a week fram each child." On a previaus accasian when hanarable members debated a similar attitude by the Gavernment, it was painted aut that the Gavernment was prepared to. take 20 cents fram the children af unmarried mathers in this State, and the measly pittance it saved was less than $100,000 in a Budget amaunting to. $300 millian. That is the attitude af the Government tawards unmarried mathers and their children. The 'cast af making up additianal payments to. children of widaws and inva'lid and


age pensioners was $219,900 a year, but this assistance will be discontinued on 30th September this year.

If it is taken to its logical conclusion, as no doubt it will be by the department, it is difficult to understand how these people will exist in view of the suffering they will endure as a result of the existing payments from both the Commonwealth and the State. Although the Premier has undertaken to establish a Ministry of Social Welfare, when I look at the back-bench members on the Government side of the Chamber common decency prevents me from naming those who would not get a " guernsey" in such a Ministry. The Minister of Education transferred to this House for other purposes, and I shall not go into that subject beyond saying that he is gradually finding his feet.

If this miseIiable Government desires to establish a Ministry of Social Welfare, it is off to a bad start when it seeks to do so at the expense of unmarried mothers and their children and widowed pensioners. The Government must realize that supplementary payments are absolutely necessary, and whether they are provided by the Commonwealth or the State will not make any difference to the recipient. Members of the Opposition have been approached by many of these people pointing out their plight. Recently a widow with three children came to me to explain what a difference these payments would make to her in her efforts to meet her commitments. The attitude of the Government is, " Let her struggle. We will take over the children and split up the family rather than make up this miserable pittance." I suggest that the Government should take a closer look at this problem. If this is to be the pattern of the Minister of Social Welfare and his department when they are appointed, it will be of no earthly use to this State because the existing position will not change. From time to time the Opposition has advised the Government of the needs

and requirements of such a department, but I warn the Government that if it continues to treat people in this cavalier way there will be a day of reckoning, and that day will not be far off.

I should like to canvass other matters because of answers I received to questions asked today, but unfortunately, I have insufficient time in which to do so. I conclude by urging the Government to reconsider its proposal to discontinue as from the 30th September payment of the supplementary assistance for children of parents receiving full Commonwealth pensions. If the Government is not prepared to continue these payments, at least it should consider some of the Commonwealth domiciliary services that might provide some relief in cases of hardship. It is of no use the Government's saying in its usual manner, "It is unfortunate; you received the payment last week, but you are not going to get it next week because we cannot afford to give it to you. We want to spend the money in a thousand other ways". Does the Government propose to waste the money it thus saves, perhaps in the shameful manner that is evident in the Education Department, the Public Works Department, and many other departments, including the Department of Labour and Industry?

It is shameful that shop assistants, who are employed under determinations which are the responsibility of the Department of Labour and Industry, do not know when they are entitled to a holiday. The Government admitted this afternoon that shopowners could open shops on Christmas Day if they wished to do so. They have been unable to take the matter to a wages board or other tribunal in this State. What is the position of employees in department stores? They can be told that they will be required for work on a certain day when they are under the impression that it is a public holiday. The Government is unable to clarify the position. Government


departments are in such a mess that confusion exists concerning public holidays and the entitlements of the employees of department stores. This unsatisfactory situation is attributable to the maladministration of the Government. Unless the Government gets down to business, it will have more industrial unrest on its hands, not because of the unreasonableness of the employees in this case but because of the stupidity and incompetence of the Department of Labour and Industry.

The sitting was suspended at 6.33 p.m. until 8.4 p.,m.

Mr. JONA (Hawthorn).-In this debate a number of Opposition members have discussed various items listed in the Supply schedule to the extent that one would think it was Grievance Day. This debate not only provides for members of the Opposition an opportunity to criticize any items of Government administration or policy but also cast'S upon them the obligation to make suggestions which may be adopted or at least considered by the House. However, I can appreciate the predicament in which the Leader of the Opposition, the Deputy Leader and other members of the Labor Party find themselves on this occasion because for the first time for many years they are members of a Parliamentary party without a rudder.

The Opposition in any Parliament has an important responsibility and is an essential part of Parliament. 'I desire to answer some of the criticisms which have been offered by members of the Opposition, although their attacks have been inconsistent; 'some have been based on the thinking of those persons who sent them to Parliament, and others on the thinking of persons who are going to put them out of Parliament. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition made his usual wild and woolly allegatio'ns about the Police Force, crime and industrial disputes. The honorable member claimed that Victoria had the worst record in Australia in each of these fields.

Mr. WILKES.-That is correct.

Mr. JONA.-I refer the honorable member to a speech made recently by his Federal Leader in the House of Representatives. Mr. Whitlam made it clear that Victoria's crime record was the best in the Commonwealth in terms of both persons apprehended and the methods adopted to reduce the incidence of crime. As my Leader interjects, Victoria had the smallest increase in crime compared with other States.

If the rabble-rousers in the Opposition, who are interjecting, do not wish to hear me, I invite the Deputy Leader of the Opposition to listen because he asked members on the Government side of the Chamber to produce figures showing that the crime rate in Victoria was considerably less than that in other States. In 1964, the number of homicides in Victoria constituted 26.1 per cent of the total number of homicides in Australia; in 1968, Victoria had 19 per cent of the Australian total, and the rate at which these crimes had been solved was immeasurably higher than in any other State. So far as robberies are concerned-the Deputy Leader of the Opposition would have included these in the general category of crime-in 1964,42.6 per cent were committed in Victoria, but in 1969 only 38 per cent were committed in this State. Although the honorable member spoke about the increasing incidence of crime in Victoria, in the case of serious assaults and :many other aspects lower figures apply to Victoria than to other States. This state of affairs has been confirmed by the Federal Leader of the party to which the Deputy Leader of the Opposition belongs.

The second poin t made by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition related to industrial disputes. He said that in this sphere Victoria had by far the worst record of any State in Australia. Let us look at the position and consider the causes of some of these industrial disputes. In 1964 Victoria had 15.7 per cent of the industrial disputes in Australia. In view of the large number of industries, the rate of employment and the scope


for employment in Victoria, 15.7 per cent of industrial disputes is a low figure. The fact that Victoria produces 30 per cent of the gross national income must also be considered. From 1964 to 1967 the percentage of industrial disputes in Victoria increased to 19.9. This was still a low figure, but neverthless it was 4 per cent higher than the 1964 figure.

Mr. WILKEs.-He has got us!

Mr. JONA.-It is all very well for the Deputy Leader of the Opposition to make various comments, intermingled with laughter from members of the Opposition. He knows nothing about a subject on which in this Cham .. ber he has made all sorts of unfounded . allegations, for the purpose of obtaining cheap pUblicity. I invite the honorable member to listen to the facts. Although the percentage of industrial disputes in Victoria has increased, the number of workers directly involved in stoppages has been reduced from 27 per cent to 24 per cent of the national figure. Those figures are significant because they demonstrate a changing pattern in strikes in Victoria fro~ the mass strikes which were prevalent before 1964 to the lightning strikes which have been organized to disrupt industry and adversely affect the economy.

The Deputy Leader of the Opposition is as well aware of those facts, as are 75 per cent of the members of his party, and the other 25 per cent of the members of his party who plan and organize strikes. Because he is closer to them than any member of the Government, the Deputy Leader of the Opposition knows that members of the political and industrial wings of the Labor Party are primarily concerned with organizing stoppages in Victoria to disrupt industry and the economy in the same way as some of the political spokesmen of that party are desirous of political confrontation with authority at other levels. It is time this Parliament faced the situation.

in regard to many of these matters. N ext to his Leader, the Deputy Leader of the Opposition has criticized the behaviour, activities, policy and performance of the Victoria Police Force more than anyone else. He speaks about the responsibility of police in solving crime, but I remind him that last Friday, as a result of threats made by members of his party in regard to the moratorium, it was necessary for 25 per cent of the Victoria Police Force to be on duty to maintain law and order so that the people of Melbourne could go about their normal business.

Mr. WILKES.-They did not have to worry.

Mr. JONA.-Perhaps the Chief Commissioner of Police takes the words of Dr. Cairns and the Leader of the Opposition in this Parliament more literally than does the Deputy Leader of the Opposition. The Chief Commissioner of Police was forced into that position because Dr. Cairns and the Leader of the Opposition, who was associated with Dr. Cairns in the march, made it quite clear that they were prepared to have a confrontation and defy certain laws.

Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-On a point of order, the honorable member for Hawthorn has said that the Leader of the Opposition suggested a confrontation with the police, and that is offensive to the Opposition. I ask that the statement be withdrawn.

Mr. JONA.-I am not prepared to withdraw those remarks.

Mr. WILKES.-What is your ruling on the point of order, Mr. Chairman?

The CHAIRMAN (Sir Edgar Tanner).-Order ! If the Deputy Lea.der of the Opposition finds the remark offensive, I am sure the honorable member for Hawthorn will withdraw.

Mr. JONA (Hawthorn).-If the Deputy Leader of the Opposition finds my remarks about the Leader of the Opposition associating with Dr. Cairns offensive, I shall withdraw them.


Mr. WILKES (Northcote).-On a point of order, I have no objection to the Leader of the Opposition associating with Dr. Cairns, but the Opposition takes objection to the suggestion of the honorable member for Hawthorn that the Leader of the Opposition supports confrontation.

The CHAIRMAN.-Order! I ask the honorable member for Hawthorn to withdraw the remarks.

Mr. JONA (Hawthorn).-I withdraw my remarks and leave it for the people of Victoria to decide. The point I am making is that there are people in this State whose declared policy is to overthrow authority in various forms. They are supported by people occupying high public office who constitute an alternative Government. That statement cannot be denied. Dr. Cairns has supported it. I do not know whether Dr. Cairns is supporting the Leader of the Opposition in this Parliament, but they marched close together last Friday.

Sir HENRY BOLTE.-With Dr. Wainer.

Mr. JONA.-That is so. I saw a number of other well-known people, such as Ralph Gibson, associating with them.

Mr. WILKEs.-Members of the Liberal Party also marched and the honorable member for Hawthorn knows it.

Mr. JONA.-I do not intend to allow myself to be side-tracked because members of the Opposition are getting excited. They are extremely sensitive on this matter, but I think I would be remiss in my duty if during this debate I made no reference to this aspect of law and order and the expenditure of Government money that could be better employed elsewhere.

Mr. TREZIsE.-What about the march by the farmers?

Mr. JONA.-The farmers made no threats and broke no law of this Parliament or by-law of any other law-making authority. In speaking

to Division 2, "Legisl,ative Assembly -Salaries, General Expenses, and Other Services ", I believe I am entitled to speak on the important subject of the behaviour of members. In a democratic SOciety anybody has the right t'O express opposition to any aspect of Government policy and the right within the law to demonstrate and express dissent. I have no criticism 'Of any member of the Opposition or any other party expressing dissent -this is healthy and democratic-but when members associate themselves with a movement whose leaders they subscribe to politically and whose views have been clearly directed towards defiance of the laws of this Parliament, then in my view their action constitutes contempt of this Parliament.

The CHAIRMAN (Sir Edgar Tanner).-Order ! The honorable member should return to the Supply debate.

Mr. JONA.-Members of the Opposition have ,a political responsibHity and a moral 'Obligation to show the people of Vic'toria where they stand on these matters, and on the need f'Or the Governm!ent to spend money to cover the costs of over 1,000 policemen to protect the public against the threats that were m,adre by members of their party. They have a respons,ibility to declare themselves publicly.

The Government has accepted its responsibility. Members of the Opposition should declare where they stand in regard to the disruption of educational institutions in Victoria as a result 'Of the infusion of 'literature en,couraging anti-educaUonal, antiauthoritarian and anti-Australian behaviour which, in terms of money, potential and the interests of Australia, is costing the nation a gre,at deal and will cost much more in the future.

Mr. WILKEs.-What do you mean? Mr. JONA.-Members of the Oppo

sition do not want to face up to these matters.

Mr. WILKEs.-We do not understand you; tell us what you mean.


Mr. JONA.-I am sure that, if members of the OpposiNon have not got the message, the Victorian public will not be too impressed with their intellect. The Chisholm by-election showed what the electors believed. I appreciate the concern of members of the OpposiNon; I can understand why they enter the Supply debate critioal of the performance of the Governm'ent. I can understand why they have avoided so many alternatives. I have waited for Opposition members to say where they stand on education and how they would split up the money they would make available for State aid.

Government policy is quite clear, but members of the Opposition have adopted the axiom that it is easier to be critical than correct. The contributions of members of the Opposition to this debate have not been impressive. Before it concludes at least one m'ember of the Opposition should make a clear statement on the attitude of the Par'liamentary Labor Party, if not of the Labor Party itself, because these are matters which ar'e closely concerned and interwoven with the expenditure of money. The people of Victoria are entitled to know where the Labor Party stands on these issues.

Mr. DOUBE (Albert Park).- Honorable members have listened to a most extraordinary speech by the honorable member for Hawthorn. He was only the second member of the Government party to speak in this debate. I was surprised at his aggression towards a group of people who demonstrated quite peacefully during the moratorium march; he was bent on inciting people to violence. He said that the demonstration was an act of aggression against the law, but clearly this was not so.

Mr. JONA.-You supported it.

Mr. DOUBE.-Of course I supported it. Quite a number of people regard the Vietnam war-if one could call it a war; it is not the description given by the Commonwealth-as an act of aggression. It is a matter

which worries the conscience of a large number of people. I challenge the honorable member to name any other issue on which 'so many people of different parties and beliefs would get together and march in the streets in the face of miserable attacks on them and their leaders. The honorable member for Hawthorn made such a puny attack that no one with any sensitivity would take any notice of him. Nothing was said about confrontation. My understanding is that some of the leaders of the march conferred with the police. At no stage did the situation envisaged and hoped for by the honorable member for Hawthorn ever happen.

Mr. JONA.-That is not true.

Mr. DOUBE.-The honorable member for Hawthorn hoped that the moratorium march would end in turmoil. He is perturbed because the demonstration was a success. The march indicated clearly that 40,000 or 50,000 people felt strongly about our involvement with people over 4,000 miles from Australia. They were prepared to march in the streets and be attacked and vilified by persons such as the honorable member for Hawthorn.

Mr. THOMPSoN.-When Dr. Cairns spoke about the end of authority!

Mr. DOUBE.-When Dr. Cairns spoke about the end of authority, he spoke of a philosophical concept. If Government members were honest and not partisan as they are at the moment, they would know what was meant by that statement. Dr. Cairns hoped to 'See less of authority and more of the people being able to manage their lives without authority. Indeed, history shows that in the past 200 years authority was reinforced by the existence of laws under which 200 offences were punishable by death. It must be admitted that, in that sense, there has been a diminution of authority in modern times. In my opinion, Dr. Cairns was looking towards the day when people will not need oppressive acts of government to show them how they should live. Our history


shows that we are moving towards a situation of being able to manage our own affairs without the great restrictions of the past. The Government has tried to make out a case that the right to demonstrate on matters of conscience is not an important part of a democratic community. No Government has any right to interfere with the conscientious beliefs of the people, and once it does so democracy ceases to exist. I was appalled at the speech made by the honorable member for Hawthorn. I only hope that he does not believe what he said.

On returning to the Parliament after an absence of some nine years, I am rather disappointed to notice that the practice of distributing only half-a-dozen copies of a Minister's second-reading explanatory speech st111 prevails. Surely the Government is not so impecunious that it cannot provide every honorable member with a copy of the Minister's speech. It is a restriction which does not apply in other Houses of Parliament. Honorable members listen to the Minister, but then they must wait until Hansard is published, possibly four or five days later, before being able to study what has been said. The expenditure involved in distributing copies of Ministers' speeches to each honorable member would be very small.

After nine years away from this House, I notice that there is some stultification in the activities of Ministers and their departments. This is particularly so in the Education Department, where no new initiatives are being taken with regard to the education of handicapped children. The department has issued a booklet which is good on the surface but does not tell the full story.

It is my belief that under the Education Act the Minister is responsible for the education of every child of school age 'in Victoria. I do not think he will deny that the Act clearly states that this is so. Although there are private and Government

Mr. Doube.

sectors of education it is the Minister's responsibility to see that education is provided for every chiild. Despite that fact, the Education Department has done nothing for severely retarded children.

Mr. SCANLAN.-Rubbish!

Mr. DOUBE. - It ceases its attempts to do anything at the special school level. No honorable member can say that that statement is rubbish.

Mr. SCANLAN .-Define your terms.

Mr. DOUBE.-Special schools provide for children within a certain category, but they do not provide for all of the mentally retarded children of this State.

Mr. SCANLAN .-What about those who are socially handicapped?

Mr. DOUBE.-I shall come to that question in a moment. The Act states that every child of school age shall receive an education, and it does not discriminate in any way. It does not say that severely retarded children are not the responsibility of the Minister; in fact, it implies that they are.

Mr. SCANLAN.-They are not the responsibility of the Education Department. Are they not the responsibility of the Mentall Health Author!ty?

The CHAIRMAN (Sir Edgar Tanner).-Order! There are far too many interjections. Honorable members who wish to speak should address the Chair.

Mr. DOUBE.-I know as much about day centres as the honorable member for Oakleigh, and I contend that the Education Department accepts no responsibility for them, although the Act makes it clear that it should. The welfare of such ·children has been left to the Mental Health Authority, although the Act lays down clearly that the Minister must provide educational ac·commodation for all children of school age. The Act does not say that children with an I.Q. of less than 50 or 60 are not the Minister's responsibility.


The Minister well knows that the parents of children who cannot gain entry to day ,centres should take them to a primary school and demand admittance; if they did so, the honorable gentleman 'could not refuse them. However, that is not being done, and many children on waiting lists are being kept at home. The parents of such children are in difficulties with regard to education, yet there is no new feeling within the Education 'Departmentconceming the matter. The department has made no attempt to move lower down the scale of mental retardation than the level of those children who attend special schools, and I point out that those schools were established years ago.

Mr. ROSSITER.-SOme of them.

Mr. DOUBE.-The original one at Bell Street was established years ago, but 'I realize that more have been established since. I should like the Minister to inform the Committee why he 'considers that his department is not responsible for the education of every child in this State and, also, to furnish his reasons for 'considering that severely mentally handicapped 'children are not a responsibility of his department. It cannot be denied that mentally retarded children appreciate, and are enhanced by, an education, but the department has done nothing about the problem. I am appalled, upon returning to this Parliament, to notice the stultified approach which is still adopted and which is supported by some honorable members. No dynamic action is being taken in the matter, and no compassion is being shown to the parents of these children.

In examining the statutes, I have found that many Acts have not been incorporated in the 'consolidated volumes. One of them is the Melbourne and Geelong Corporation Act, which is now out of print. The original Act dates back to 1843 and, in view of the proposals that the Melbourne City Council should assume control in certain areas, it is an important Act. Can the Government

explain why an Act of this size and of such importance should be out of print, and why it has not been ,consolidated, because it is ,clearly an Act which affects many people in our society?

I turn now to the subject of pollution. I do not know why the Government does not ask some municipalities to enforce existing laws. Between my electorate and Green Point in Brighton, there are twenty major drains which run into Port Phillip Bay.

Mr. WILTSHIRE.-The Labor Party refused to allow legislation concerning that matter to be enacted by Parliament.

Mr. DOUBE.-Legislation is not required. Under existing Acts the use of drains, watercourses and creeks for depositing polluted material is forbidden. The outlets between Princes Pier and Green Point,

. Brighton, constitute a little Yarra River, and every time that it rains effluent from fa'ctories is driven into the bay. Surely, it is high time for something to be done about this. The whole of the inner bayside area is being destroyed.

This has led to all sorts of compilications, not the least of them being that on Saturdays and Sundays people now have to drive up to 80 miles to be able to enjoy reasonable swimming facilities. On a Sunday, Government members do not travel to Albert Park and similar places because they believe the inner-bay area is expendable. Like many people, they have been hooked into believing the advertisements by car manufacturers and distributors that recreation involves driving a car of some gigantic horsepower at 70 or 80 miles an hour, whereas right at our own doorstep excellent recreational} facilities are being destroyed and the Government is doing nothing about it.

The Health Act prohibits the use of drains, whether they flow into the Yarra River or into Port Phillip Bay, for the carrying of industrial waste.

272 Votes on [ASSEMBL Y.] Account.

However, if the Minister gets his experts to take a sample from any of these areas, he will learn one reason why Prince Charles complained about swimming a t inner beach areas. Effluent from garages where cars are washed and engines are steam-cleaned does not enter the sewerage system but goes into the drains, and this is an offence. The Government should police its own legislation.

The Government is talking about setting up some sort of authority on pollution but power already exists under the Health Act. The bay is being destroyed, but the trend could be halted if the Government awoke from its inertia and took the necessary action. The Government, which has been in office for fifteen years, thinks it will remain in office forever and therefore does not need to do anything about the two matters that I have mentioned-the Education Department's responsibility for the education of mentally retarded children and the pollution which is 'Occurring every day in the inner bay area. The Government certainly shows that it does not care anything for the quality of life of mentally retarded children or the quality of life of those who seek reasonable recreational facilities on Port Phillip Bay.

Mr. BURGIN (Polwarth).-Mr. Chairman, I preface my remarks by saying how pleased I am to be elected to follow in the footsteps of our very good friend, Mr. Tom Darcy, who represented the Polwarth electorate for many years and endeared himself to many voters in the electorate for the humane way in which he handled their problems.

In speaking to the division of the Supply schedule relating to State development, I wish to make a few points concerning my electorate. Within it are the Otway Ranges, which contain one of the most beautiful rain forests in Victoria, and some of the most rugged coastal scenery in the world. These two assets can be of great benefit to Victoria and in particular to my electorate, but they

require development. Other honorable members have spoken of problems affecting their over-populated city electorates. My electorate has an abundance of free clean air but lacks population. Many metropolitan dwellers could with advantage go to live in my district, if jobs could be provided for them. It is difficult for somebody who lives in the country to understand why people persist in congregating in the types of areas I have heard mentioned so many times during the past few hours. Some way must be found to transfer people from over-populated areas to free, clean, fresh, unpolluted areas.

Within my electorate there is a large rural community. Dairying predominates, but there is a large meat industry that covers all aspects. I am pleased to note that a good deal of money is ~eing dev~ted to agricultural extensIon servIces, animal health and other similar matters. In the area south of Colac, there is one of the highest concentrations of cattle, both beef and dairy, in Victoria. Probably there are also fewer extension facilities than in any other part of the State.

At various times, priva te veterinary officers have sent samp~e material to Queensland for analysIs because it was quicker to do that than to have it tested in Victoria. I believe this is also happening in many other parts of the State. I realize tha t valid reasons exist for the problem but I mention the subject because the difficulty must be overcome quickly by the Governmen.t as it is an important aspect of agrIculture today.

At present, the meat industry seems to be split into two major parts. The beef industry. i~ at least keeping abreast of the flsmg costs that are evident in the community. On the other hand, for some reason, the prime lamb industry has got out of step with the rest of the community. This problem started some four years ago. It first came


into being when the Federal Minister for Trade and Industry allowed the lamb industry to be included in the New Zealand Free Trade Agreement. Admittedly, the Federal Minister received a certain amount of backing from the various farming organizations which handled meat, but one of the problems facing the lamb industry today is that in the farming organizations or through the Meat Board a predominance of cattlemen are handling the problems of the industry. The lamb industry is not always considered in the proper light. In Victoria, under the present system of selling meat, especially lamb, the producer must meet the ruling market price. On many occasions, this means accepting a low price for his product, but in the past he has been able to take a bonus when prices have risen. The industry has encouraged a gradual price rise through the winter, which in the lamb industry is the high cost of production period, because of the desirability of spreading production over twelve months to give the consumer fresh lamb throughout the year. During the winter months the producer must receive a price increase.

I point out that lamb has been in· cluded in the free trade agreement with New Zealand. It must be remembered that practically all the benefits deriving to Australia under this agreement will assist the secondary industries and w'Orkers of this country. In the past, the lamb industry has had the top taken off its market prices. This bad state of affairs has now been rectified, and it is to be hoped that it will be kept under control.

In recent years wheat qu'Otas have been introduced into the structure of farm produce. This, too, has had a detrimental effect on the lamb industry. As was expected, the lamb industry in Victoria achieved a large increase in production because wheat areas which produce 60 per cent of the total lamb in Australia, have found that they can quickly change to the production of lamb by using land not sown with wheat. In tum,

this has depressed our markets, because under the auction system the producer receives for his lamb the export and parity price at the time it is sold. Although on occasions there may be only 2 or 3 per cent of overproduction, the prices are still governed by export prices ruling at the time. It can be seen at once that the lamb industry can be vitally affected by decisions that another rural industry has been forced to take.

I refer n'Ow to subsidies and the small farmer. Honorable members must understand what is Ineant by the term "small farmer" . It does not mean that a man is farming a certain number of acres in a given place. The stage must be reached in Victoria when an economic farm unit provides a man and his family with a reasonable living for a reasonable amount of w'Ork, as c.ompared with 'Other sections of the community. An economic farm unit is not of any specified acreage. It depends on the district in which the farm is situated, the type of farming operation, and whether the farmer is cropping or running livestock.

One man and his family can look after only a certain number of stock. In the fat lamb industry this figure is between 1,800 and 2,000 sheep. In the wool industry the figure would be, perhaps, between 3,000 and 3,500 sheep. Once a property runs larger numbers it is not economical farming for a single unit farmer. When a farmer employs labour he is at the mercy of wage increases and he does not receive the same return from his work force that he obtains from what he puts into his own property. The problem must be understood. At present farmers are receiving a lot of false advice; for example they are told that they must diversify. Likewise, the advice that the size of farms must be increased is wrong. The present diversification that is occurring is bringing down one industry after another and this Government and this Parliament should be doing all in their power to keep our primary producers in their own industries.


A further point to come under notice recently is that the processors of peas and beans have raised their prices. Immediately a scream of protest came from the trade unions and workers. These peop'le should consider what was happening under the existing price structure and the struggle that was going on between the processing companies. In the first place, what had been happening to the people who produce peas and beans? They are workers, just as are those employed in factories. For a numbers of years the producers of peas and beans were squeezed tighter and tighter by the processing firms, until at last those firms decided that higher prices must be charged. [ am not aware whether this has been done correctly, but before protests are made consideration should be given to the producers of these commodities.

In the meat industry the producer of lamb is receiving, if he is fortunate, approximately 13 cents or 14 cents a pound for his product. In Victoria lamb costs between 7 and 15 cents a pound for delivery to city butchers' shops. This is more than the producer receives. In New South Wales, under a semi-Government authority, the flat rate is 12 cents a pound. I invite honorable members to think 'carefully of the costs of the food items that the consumer -must buy. We must not begrudge the producer the fair price that he needs for the products that he produces.

Mr. WILTON (Broadmeadows).I should like to 'congratulate the honorable member for Polwarth on his first contribution in debate in this Chamber. I assure the honorable member that he will have the full support of the Opposition in his efforts to influence this Government, which for the past fifteen years has sat on its tail, so to speak, and taken no action to prevent the drift of population to the 'City with the resl:lltant denuding of the rural areas. If the honorable member for Pol warth intends to take up the cudgels on

behalf of the depleted districts of the State, I wish him every success because over the past fifteen years the Government has repeatedly ignored its responsibilities in this field.

The honorable member for Hawthorn, in his usual style, read and raved for about fifteen or twenty minutes and subjected honorable members to a series of distortions and misrepresentations. In an attempt to establish some semblance of argument on behalf of the Government, the honorable member quoted some percentages and referred to the year 1964, the crime rate, the year 1969, and the number of industrial disputes that this State has suffered. By imputation the honorable member attempted to establish that the industrial disputes stemmed from the actions of some people who have deliberately taken upon themselves the task of disrupting industry. The honorable member succeeded only in proving that he knows nothing about the subject on which he was speaking.

Mr. WILCOX.-You would be the expert in that field.

Mr. WILTON.-The Minister of Transport should be the last member of the Government to interject in this debate. 'Only today, the honorable gentleman admitted that he knew nothing about running the railways, saying, "It has nothing to do with me; it is a matter for the commissioners ". What is the Minister's position when the unions involved in the railway industry wish to establish negotiations with the commissioners? Does the honorable gentleman, a'cting on behalf of the 'Government, instruct the Railways Commissioners concerning their attitude, and do other Ministers act similarly in respect of their departments?

No union officials in Victoria or in the CommonweaHh have the right 'Or the authority to withold labour from a particular industry. Matters of this type are decided by the union organizations concerned. Government members, who have some understanding of the trade union movement,


would know this to be an established fact. When an organization becomes involved in an industrial dispute, the matter is given careful consideration. After all, the persons 'concerned in an industrial dispute are often penalizing themselves. Because they are aware of this fact, they take this a'ction only as a last resort. On many occasions, unfortunately, this a'ction is forced on them by the Government. The situation to which I refer is typical of the type of Government administration that Victoria is experiencing from a minority group within the community. The Government has sold its political principles to a sectional group within this State, and that is the only reason why it is occupying the Treasury bench.

Mr. WILCOX.-Who are you talking about?

Mr. WILTON.-The Minister of Transport knows only too well to whom I am referring.

Mr. WILCOX.-Tell us whom you mean. You are doing well for a maiden speech.

Mr. WIL TON.-At least I am making a contribution to the debate, which is more than the Opposition can expect from the Minister of Transport.

Under Division 8 of the Supply schedule, an am'Ount of $296,000 is allocated to the Premier's Office. I wish to deal specifically with national parks, in which field there has been a good deal of activity in the past two or three years. Just prior to the last electi'On, the question of c'Onserva tion in general beCame a hot topic in this Parliament. A wide section of the community demonstrated that it was not prepared to sit by and allow the resources of this State to be frittered away under the administration 'Of the Government. It wa's pleasing to note that, in answering a question today, the Minister of Lands made it clear that the Government has completely reversed the policy advocated by his predecessor in this Chamber prior to the last elec-

tion. It is als'O pleasing that the Government is now realizing that the conservation groups of this State are a body to be reck'Oned with.

I wi'Sh to refer now to the administration of our national parks. Although a National Parks Authority is functioning under legislation which gives it wide powers and responsibilities, it is, unfortunately, as in other instances under the Government's administration, so 'Sadly lacking in funds that it has no possible hope of discharging its responsibilities. Only a skeleton staff is available to the authority which, of c'Ourse, urgently needs trained per'Sonnel to carry out the administration of the various national parks throughout the State.

In recent months, I had the good fortune to travel overseas. During my travels, I took a keen interest in national parks, how other countries administered their parks and what facilities were available in them. In Canada, I was fortunate in being a guest of the National Parks Authority. From my experience in Canada, I am convinced that, in Australia, the various national parks authorities and the State Ministers who are responsible for this area of Government administration, should meet with the appropriate Federal Minister, for the purpose of enabling the Federal authority to take over the responsibility for national parks. Some honorable members may think that to hand over national parks to the Federal Government would represent a further erosion of the States' responsibilities. However, under the State administration, we are failing in our responsibility to our national parks. No doubt, Government members will say that this situation exists because Victoria has insufficient finance and they will ask, "Where will the money come from?" I believe that if national parks were under the control of a Federal authority, the requisite finance would be available. One Federal authority could administer the national parks and discharge its responsibilities to the community in

276 Votes on [ASSEMBLY. J Account.

a more practical and beneficial way than that which is evident under the various State lluthorities at the moment.

It is important to bear in mind that it is not sufficient merely to reserve an area of land and to say that it is to be kept in its natural condition, that nothing must be allowed to upset the ecology or to change the natural environment. It has been proven in many countries throughout the world that much more must be done. Such reserves must be under the control of trained personneil and large sums of money must be made available to establish facilities to enable the general public to enjoy them. If this activity is not brought under the control of the Commonwealth, at least that Government should agree to make a much greater financial contribution. After all, the title "national parks" implies that they are a national activity and are for the enjoyment of a!ll the people of the Commonwealth. Victoria does not adopt the attitude that only residents of this State should use its parks; people from all over the Commonwealth are invited to enjoy them. Therefore, it is reasonable that the Commonwealth should contribute. I do not accept the Commonwealth Government's argument that, because national parks are a State responsibility, Commonwealth funds cannot be expended in this field. I remind honorable members that in other States, particularly in Western Austra1ia and Queensland, the Commonwealth Government provides large sums of money for the construction of certain roads. This is done under the States Grants (Beef Cattle Roads) Act on the Commonwealth's assumption that it is contributing to the earning capacity of an export industry.

The tourist trade is directly related to national parks, which play an im.portant part in that industry. In overseas countries which have wellestablished and highly-organized tourist industries, one finds that natural resources and natural phenomena

Mr. Wilton.

occupy a high position in the literature and propaganda produced by the tourist authorities to attra~t visitors. For example, in Canada the national parks and the Rocky Mountains occupy a high place in publications produced by the various authorities which endeavour to "sell" Canada to tourists from throughout the world. The same position applies in New Zealand, Japan, England, Europe and elsewhere. Therefore, there is a basis for the Commonwealth Government's involvement in this particular area of responsibility. I should like the Victorian Minister to take the initiative on this queston.

Division 39 of the Supply schedule relates to education. Like all honorable members, particularly Opposition members, I am concerned about the existing teacher shortage which has occupied the minds of honorable members for some time. After fifteen years of this Government's administration, I have come to the conclusion that the Education Department is falling behind and not keeping pace with this problem. In Victoria today the ridiculous situation exists that at many secondary schools, owing to the shortage of qualified staff, class periods are curtai'led and some periods have to be dropped. I am reliably informed that from time to time students are advised by the principal that they are not to attend until a la ter hour on particular days because no staff is available. Many senior students are so fed up with the situation that they are asking themselves and discussing with their parents what is the use of their staying at school. They are not being taught because staff is not available, and many of them consider that they are wasting their time.

Another tragic side of the story is that students who attend these particular schools under the zoning system applied by the Education Department are not getting equal opportunity in regard to educational facilities. In the senior forms the position is more serious; it is more difficult for a student at a schoo!


which is suffering from a staff shortage to reach matriculation level and qualify when he is forced to carry this disadvantage. I do not know how long this 'State of affairs will continue. The Minister has made many speeches on this subject, both inside and outside Parliament, but the situation is gradually becoming worse, and it appears to me that the Government has no answer to this deplorable situation.

I now wish to discuss the Royal Botanic Gardens. I remind honorable members that, some time ago much debate occurred in this Chamber and in another place concerning these gardens and the kiosk that exists there. A Select Committee was appointed by another place to examine the matter. The committee's report stated, among other things, that the kiosk was inadequate for present-day needs and should be extensively modified and modernized. Through the agency of the Minister of Lands, the Government, as the custodian, has the responsibility of maintaining not only the gardens but also the facilities there for the use of the general public.

Mr. WILCOX.-Would you support the provision of a modem restaurant?

Mr. WILTON.-I repeat what members of the Opposition have said on previous occasions, that we agree that the present facilities for the public are inadequate and need modernization, but we do not agree with the Government's previous proposal which envisaged the expenditure of a large sum of public funds on a lavish licensed restaurant which would have been beyond the reach of the average person who uses the gardens for recreational purposes. There is a definite need for a kiosk in the gardens, and I point out to the Minister that there was no confusion in the minds of members of the Opposition in regard to the provision of a lavish licensed restaurant as against modernizing the existing kiosk. There is a vast difference between the two.

Mr. WILCOX.-It would be necessary to build a new kiosk to provide a modern establishment.

Mr. WILTON.-If a new kiosk is necessary, it should be built and the Government should be prepared to face up to its responsibilities by providing the money for it. That is a far cry from what the Minister of Transport was advocating previously. Everybody associated with the Royal Botanic Gardens agrees tha t this should be done. Over a number of years, in his reports, the director has pointed this out to the Government. Public servants whose responsibility it is to administer the gardens have made the Government aware of the situation and it is up to the Government to do something.

Mr. STEPHEN (Ballaarat South).I am concerned about the plight of primary producers and rural industries in Victoria and I deplore the recent Commonwealth Budget because of its complete indifference to this problem. I was particularly interested to hear the honorable member for Gippsland East say how suddenly the Commonwealth Minister for Primary Industry is advocating that primary producers should diversify their production. In my opinion that is the last step that should be taken to get primary producers out of their present difficulties. In other words, diversification will get them into further trouble.

There are two major problems facing primary industries at the moment and if they are solved the other problems will also be solved. The first major problem is brought about by low wool prices. Although the price of wool is low the commodity can still be sold and, if a solution could be found to the problems associated with the low price of wool, many of the other difficulties facing primary industries would be overcome. The second major problem is associated with wheat quotas, and in my opinion quotas have become necessary because of diversification. The wool grower has turned to wheat growing and the wheat grower has diversified


into fat lambs and pig raising, thereby ruining those industries. The fat lamb producer has turned to dairying, thus aggravating the problems of that industry. Farmers engaged in all s'Orts of primary industries are trying to diversify by going into other primary industries and there has been a chain reaction.

The stage has now been reached where it is necessary for the Federal Government to take action to alleviate the difficulties in which primary p'roducers, rural industries and country industries generally find themselves. However, I feel that the State Government could assist by widening the scope of the seed testing and certification section of the Department of Agriculture. The seed industry is also suffering from over-production, brought about mainly by diversification. Graziers and other people engaged in rural industry have diversified, on the advice of the Department of Agriculture, into the small seed industry. At the moment there is a glut of seeds but many types of seeds are still being imported into Victoria and this is the field in which the State Government could play an important role. I seriously urge the Government to give consideration to transferring departmental personnel from the various extension services into the seed certification and testing section. I have the greatest admiration for the work done by the extension officers in their attempts to lighten the load on primary producers who are in such a parlous position at the moment, but many aspects of agriculture are changing and honorable members would be aware of the great interest and upsurge in the production of vegetable oil from rape seeds. If this avenue were controlled and handled properly many primary producers could be assisted in overcoming some of their present diffi·culties.

When I was first elected to Parliament seven years ago the seed certification and seed testing laboratories certified only seven varieties of grasses and clovers in Victoria. The

Mr. Stephen.

service now covers eighteen varieties. That indicates the growth that has occurred in this section of agriculture and demonstr,ates the possibilities that could flow from extensions in this field. Therefore, I ask the Government to make more finanee available to the seed certification and testing section of the Department of Agriculture so that further certification schemes can be implemented. F'Or example, the section could certify seeds of the raJpe and turnip varieties which at present are 'imported from overseas. This would be a worthwhile venture for the Government and I ask it to appoint additional officers to this section.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-Earlier today I indicated that it w·as not my intention to join issue with the Government concerning 'its financial policy, but I understand that during my unavoidable absence from the Chamber I was attacked, as w·ere other members of the Opposition, by the honorable member f'Or Hawthorn 'On what he considered to be an essential part of this and the Federal Government's law and order campaign. I intend to deal with some 'Of those matters now.

Of course, there are real problems associated with law and order in the community, but those problems are not related to peopl'e who are concerned 'about the policies of the Federal Government on Vietnam and conscription or the rights of many thousands of pe'Ople to exercise their conscience in a democratic society by demonstrating on these issues. The threat to law and order in this community is the failure of this Government properly to administer this State.

Mr. WILCox.-What rot!

Mr. HOLDING.-The Minister of Transport does not know how to run his trains. The honorable gentleman should have a confidential conversation with the Chief Secretary and be told that no other Chief Secretary has had four or five senior members


of the Police Force invdlved in serious criminal charges that involve corruption. That is the record of this Government.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secretary) .-Mr. Chairman, I rise to a point of order. That is not true, and the Leader of the Opposition knows it.

Mr. HOLDING (Leader of the Opposition) .-1 shall withdaw the statemen t and rephrase it. The Chief Secretary finds himself in the embarrassing situation that senior members of the Police Force-not the boys on the beat and not the people who have to stand up under direction at barricades-are involved in serious charges. I shall not take it any further than that because of the decision of the House in respect of that matter. It was most convenient that the Chief Secretary had the numbers to ensure that these issues would not be dealt with by the Parliament. On the question of law and order, I refer honorable members to page 2751 of Hansard of 24th February, 1970. The honorable member for Northcote asked the Chief Secretary-

How many robberies and armed hold-ups have occurred since 1st December, 1969, and what were their locations?

The Chief Secretary stated that there were seventeen such robberies and armed hold-Ups.

Mr. WILKEs.-In one month.

Mr. HOLDING.-That is so. The Chief Secretary also indicated that 3,686 bashings had occurred.

Mr. WILKES.-Also in one month.

Mr. HOLDING.-That is so. This is a reply from a Government which talks about law and order and from a Premier who wants to tell people not to come into M·elbourne. They would not need to go into Melbourne; the suburbs also are too dangerous.

Mr. WILcox.-From where did you get those figures?

Mr. HOLDING.-From Hansard. The Minister. of Transport is in a difficult position because the Premier believes that trains can be operated without guards. When one asks the most intellectual Minister in this Government whether he agrees with that contention he states that he is not responsible for running the trains.

Mr. RAFFERTY.- You are good!

Mr. HOLDING.- In all modesty, I am bound to admit that a few of my back-bench members think I am good, which is more than the Minister of Labour and Industry will ever be able to say because if there is anything which the front-bench members of the Government fear it is a dozen back-bench members; and the Premier knows it!

Mr. A. T. EVANs.-We are not frightened of the Opposition.

Mr. HOLDING.-Although the honorable member for Ballaarat North has been a member of this House for many years, he has not made any learned contributions to the debates. However, in all honesty I am bound to say that what the honorable member said was more constructive than were the contributions of the Minister of Lands, but he was not sponsored well enough. Therefore, he should handle his own problems on his own terms.

Mr. WILcox.-Tell us, is there a place for authority?

Mr. HOLDING.-Of course, there is a place for authority. The only authority the Government can claim is 36 per cent. That is its real difficulty.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH.-What about the Chisholm by-election?

Mr. HOLDING.-The Chief Secretary should not worry about the Chisholm by-election, but about Kew. The honorable gentleman should make a start by telling us what he is going to say at the dinner with all


those lovely Liberal ladies lined up and wanting his resignation on a plate. The problem of this Government is that--

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH.-It was elected by the people!

Mr. HOLDING.-This is a 36 per cent Government and there is no way in which the Chief Secretary can talk his way out of it. The honorable member for Hawthorn is sorely disappointed because he will have to make a few more speeches and be a little more prepared.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH.-Whom do you support, the Federals or the Victorians; those who are in or those who are out? You are on both sides!

The CHAIRMAN (Sir Edgar Tanner).-Order! The Leader of the Opposition should speak without interruption, and return to the Supply debate.

Mr. HOLDING.-The problem for the honorable member for Hawthorn and honorable members who represent outlying electorates is that, if '\ they were honest, they would admit that they would not be prepared to let their teenage daughters-if I may use the expression without being offensive to the Chief Secretaryget into a train at 11 p.m. and travel to an outlying suburb. The threat to law and order in this community comes from the Government. The Minister of Transport deserves an invitation to the Premier's $10 a plate dinner but, from the way he is carrying on, I would charge him $100. Members of the Government support the concept of drafts to Vietnam and the people who operate in that country because, as a Government, they are prepared to manipulate the democratic processes in exactly the same way. Perhaps" abuse" is a better word than" manipulate."

Mr. JONA.-You want to overthrow it.

Mr. HOLDING.-If the honorable member for Hawthorn had to operate in a proper democratic system, he

would be overthrown by the electorate. He has had to rely on a political gerrymander which is the shame of Australia and he knows it. This 36 per cent Government believes that it has the right to tell people how they will conduct their political lives.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH.-What about Chisholm?

Mr. HOLDING.-The Chief Secretary should concentrate on Kew. That is his problem. The problem facing the Government is that it has not only a Chief Secretary who cannot control his department, but also a Premier who openly incites violence and breaches of the peace for the purpose of 'claiming a ,cheap political victory of some kind. The statements made by the Premier concerning the recent 'moratorium were a disgrace to him and his party. The Government cannot have it both ways. In any demonstration of the size of the moratorium march there will be some people who may be prepared to break the law just as there are, for example, at a football grand final.

The Chief Secretary 'cannot maintain law and order. His administraHon is a shambles, and both the honorable gentleman and his party know it. The Premier, by his provocative statements, has made Victoria the most strike-ridden State in the Commonwealth. On the Premier's own invitation, workers can go on strike every second day. The honorable gentleman simply does not care about industrial unrest in the community. Apart from the Minister of Labour and Industry, perhaps, no one has caused more disharmony in industrial relations than the Premier.

In 'conclusion, I point out that it is not the old ladies and gentlemen or the clergymen or students who wish to walk along Bourke Street carrying a banner protesting at the policies of the Commonwealth Government who constitute the real threat to law and order; the real threat lies in the inep-


titude of the present Government, a Government so cynical that it ensures its return to the Treasury ben:ch by means of an electoral gerrymander.

Mr. SCANLAN (Oakleigh).-One frankly wonders what is the standard of democracy in our nation today after hearing the public school vowels of the Leader of the Opposition echoing in this Chamber and suggesting that because the Australian Labor Party secured 42 per -cent of the vote -which, of course, is not an accurate figure"",,-it should govern in its own right. How typical it is of this so democratic party to seek to ignore 58 per cent or 59 per cent-indeed, perhaps 60 per cent-of the votes of those in the 'com'munity who will have no part of the Labor Party at any price. It is a disgruntled, fragmented, split party which has no future and is faced with oblivion.

The CHAIRMAN (Sir Edgar Tanner).-I ask the honorable member for Oak leigh to address the Committee on the -Supply schedule which is now before it.

Mr. SCANLAN.-Yes, Mr. Chairman. I suggest that if there were six dominant parties in this State and the Labor Party secured 21 per -cent of the votes and each of the others secured only about 16 per cent, the Leader of the Opposition would still ignore the 79 per cent of the people who voted against his party and seek to govern in his own right. Are there not shades of tyranny in the honorable gentleman's attitude? Does it not smack of despotism and dictatorship-exactly the same type of despotism and dictatorship which provoked the Federal executive to move into Victoria and crush the State -executive of the Australian Labor Party?

The CHAIRMAN.-Will the honor-able member for Oakleigh please inform me what item of Supply he is referring to?

Mr. SCANLAN.-I am dealing with the Legislative Assembly, Division No.2, Mr. Chairman. That is the

item to which the Leader of the Opposition referred in his speech. As I have said, the Federal executive of the Labor Party has stepped in and crushed the last remnant of democracy in this once proud party.

Mr. FELL (Greensborough).-I rise to a point of order, Mr. Chairman. The honorable member for Oakleigh was asked to state what item of Supply he was referring to, and he refused to recognize the Chair by not answering.

The CHAIRMAN (Sir Edgar Tanner).-There is no point of order.

Mr. SCANLAN (Oakleigh).-Today democracy is being challenged and threa tened throughout the world. There is despotism and tyranny all over Africa, but apparently the Leader of the Opposition wishes to imitate the type of democracy which exists in that continent.

The CHAIRMAN.-It appears that when a little latitude is given, advantage is taken of it. I ask the honorable member for Oakleigh to return to Supply.

Mr. SCANLAN.-I turn now to dis-cuss the subject of special education. The Liberal Party can be proud of the initiative it has shown and the progress it has made in all fields of education. It has always set out to meet the demands of the community and, as a result of this attitude, the progress of education in this State under both the present Minister of Education and his predecessor has been such that Victoria is the unchallenged leader in this field within the Commonwealth. Before returning to the comments of the honorable member for Albert Park, who alluded to special education, perhaps we should invert the sands of time and go back to the 1950s to examine the situation in that period. I remind honorable members that in 1952 and in 1953, I had the privilege of teaching in a special school. An honorable member has suggested that I might


be a former pupil, but I remind him that I have not examined closely the backgrounds of honorable members opposite as has the Leader of the Opposition who has ascertained the schools attended by Liberal party members. I am proud to have attended a State institution, the Melbourne High School. I commend that school to the Leader of the Opposition and his children and to the children of other honorable members opposite, because it provides a fine education. I am not jealous of the advantages of attending Trinity Grammar, Kew, or Geelong Grammar. Such concern exists only in the mind of the Leader of the Opposition.

However, let me return to the 1950s and deal with the aspect of special schools. This is the period when the Labor Government was in power-that humanitarian, philanthropic Government which incarcerated thirteen-year-old girls at Pentridge and had both boys and girls locked up together at Royal Park. Admittedly, they were in separate rooms; it was not the type of permissiveness which current1y is sweeping through the ranks of the Australian Labor Party.

During this period, I can recall teaching for the first time at Royal Park and being advised by the teacher in charge not to touch a child on the head fot fear of breaking out in impetigo or congenital venereal disease, both of which were prevalent at the time. I was also advised that the boys would offer the girls a packet of cigarettes and they would strip and exhibit themselves publicly.

On this subject, I wish to quote the views expressed by that stalwart of the Australian Labor Party, a visionary, a man who is revered today in their circles, the pride of the Australian Labor Party at that time, namely, the Honorable Bill Barry. At page 1816 of Hansard of the 9th September, 1952, this visionary expressed the outlook which epitomizes

Mr. Scan.lan.

the Australian Labor Party. In referring to Sir Thomas MalJtby, then Chief Secretary, Mr. Barry said-

All the time he was hiding the fact that . the women's section at Pentridge is made what it is today as the result of the efforts of a Labor Government.

What a remarkable effort that wasto incarcerate women at Pentridge. At page 1817 of the same volume of Hansard, Mr. Barry stated that two girls aged 13 years and 15! years were to be sent to Pentridge and that he knew the record of one of them from earlier years. He was not allowed to continue because an honorable member took a point of order.

When I taught at Kew Cottages, children came to school in sacking that had been made into clothes and the last child .out of bed came to school without shoes and socks, and without a jumper in the winter. The Bewers were open and the stench permea ted the area. I can im·agine the shame and the worry that this caused to the honorable member for Kew, the present Deputy Premier.

These were the conditions which existed in the 1950s. There was no field of special education administered by the Mental Hygiene Authority-the whole problem was vested in the Education Department. The Education Department was confronted with a difficulty, and I can recall that in 1954 there were approximately 64 opportunity grades for retarded children located throughout the State. There were also schools such as Travancore and l(iew Cottages, which had recently been moved out of a tin shed into a new building. Special education at that time was nascent, and what w'as needed was the breath of inspiration which a bold and visionary Liberal Party Governm'ent could pro¥ide to meet the challenge. The reforms needed in regard to special education were introduced. The Government was ,assisted in this work by Dr. Cunningham Dax, the Chairman of the Mental Hygiene Authority.


Since those primitive days, the special services section of the Education Department has been expanded to embrace eduoation for retarded children and enter divers!e fields that w'ere never contemplated by the Labor Party Government of the earlier period. Today, there is a stratification of the special services of the Education Department. Education is provided for the children of this State who are mentally retarded, for those who suffer socially-these are the ones who were incarcerated and locked up together in RoyaJ Park in 1952-for those who are physically handicapped, and for those requiring psychiatric treatment.

As a result 'Of the activities of the Liberal Party Government, there a're now 11 day schools attached to the Education Department; 4 residential schools for mentally retarded children; about 50 opportunity remedial grades throughout the State; 10 opportunity grades; and 11 remedial grades in the special services section of the Education Department.

In the field of the socially handicapped, including those who are held under remand, there have been attached to the Social Welfare Division five Education Department institutions; in the field of youth training there are two and in the prison centres there are now six schools. Three schools are attached to church institutions and four to children's homes and orphanages under the direction of the Education Department and there is one adjustment grade.

To make this record more complete and extend it beyond the province of the mentally retarded, to which the honorable member for Albert Park referred, I inform the Committee that for the physical'ly handicapped there are 4 hospital schools, 5 day schools, 1 correspondence school, 4 schools for the deaf, 1 school for the partially sighted and 6 psychology and

guidance centres located throughout the State. In the main, all of these schools were constructed by this Government.

In the field of speech therapy there are six metropolitan schools and four regional schools. In addition, centres are conducted by the Mental Health Authority such as those at Dandenong with which the honorable member for Dandenong is associated, and the centre at Oakleigh, in which I and the honorable member for Albert Park have an interest.

These centres emerged throughout the State as a result of the agitation of persons within communities who wanted education related to their desires and demands. The Mental Health Authority has also issued certificates for teaching in these other institutions, to which I shall not allude, and which are almost as complex as the field administered by the Education Department. In other words, since 1952 there has been a magnificent improvement and a bold visionary approach by both the Government, through the Education Department, and the Mental Health Authority, with the assistance and administration of Dr. Cunningham Dax.

I put this proposition to the Opposition: In the 1950s, at a time when the prime field of education of the mentally retarded was vested solely in the Education Department, which at that time was a somewhat more inflexible instrument than it is today, and bearing in mind the desire and wishes of local communities such as Dandenong, Oakleigh and Box Hill to have established institutions for the educa tion of retarded children, would the Opposition, in line with the thinking of the honorable member for Albert Park, suggest that these institutions should not have been permitted to be established but that the service should have been kept under the control of the Education Department? Does the honorable member not agree that it is important to have the widest community participation in education? To this extent,


therefore, education in which the local community participates is a much sounder education than that which is vested in the Government monopoly.

\

If thle suggestion mooted by the Opposition is that all education for retarded children should come under one authority-the Education Department----:where is the line to be drawn? Is the Opposition advocating that the Catholic scho'Ols for retarded children in this State should be br'Ought directly under the control of theMinister of Education? Does it not mean that in terms of the extension of this principle the State should withdraw from State aid for ho'Spitals? If this principle is followed. does it not mean that State aid should be withdrawn from the Social Welfare Branch in terms of the schools c'Onducted for the s'Ocially handicapped within the Chief Secretary's Department, and that all foster care, where the prime interest lies with private citizens in the community, the churches and voluntary organizations, should be brought directly under the control of the Government?

These are the questions posed by the Opposition. The Government accepts unequivocally the policy of State aid which applies to municipali ties and, in the field 'Of social welfare to the churches that are prepared to adopt and provide foster care f'Or children. The Government accepts unequivocally State aid in terms of hospitals maintained by private institutions, voluntary organizati'Ons and the churches, and is prepared to support a policy of State aid to private institutions and citizens who have gathered together to found schools with subsidies provided by the Mental Health Authority. This is close to the heart of the proposition advocated by the Government from time to time in this Chamber.

Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park).Honorable members have been entertained in the normal exaggerated fashi'On by the honorable member for Oakleigh. When one examines the

material presented to the Committee by the honorable member it can be seen that, in an attempt to justify inadequate administration and planning, there has been a distortion of the truth.

Mr. SCANLAN (Oakleigh).-I raise a point of order, Mr. Chairman. I thank the hon'Orable member for suggesting that I have been speaking the truth, but is it possible to distort the truth?

The CHAIRMAN (Sir Edgar Tanner).-There is no point of order.

Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park).-The honorable member for Oakleigh has taken another point of order and, true to form, he raised a matter which you, Mr. Chairman, have ruled is not a point of order. In his attelnpt to justify the position taken by the Government and also in an attempt to show that in previous years peop]e have been dedicated towards the problem of the mentally and physically handicapped, the honorable member for Oakleigh merely made a political attack on a Labor Government which, for a short period during the 1950s, was attempting to unravel a tremendous morass which had developed in this State as a result of the actions of anti-Labor Governments. In fact, Victoria has had Governments from the Liberal Party, the United Australia Party and the Country Party which should have been responsible for attempting during the 1950s and 1960s to bring the standard of this State up to a worth-while level in relation to the needs and requirements of the people who, through no fault of their own, had been deprived of the opportunity to receive a proper education.

The hon'Orable member for Oakleigh attempted to use the kind of exaggeration to which the Opposition has become accustomed to describe how, for a packet of cigarettes or something else, these poor children would go through some style of undress to which the honorable member became accustomed when he was teaching.


Mr. SCANLAN (Oakleigh).-I raise a point of order, Mr. Chairman. It was not that I became accustomed to this. The matter is covered in newspaper reports of the period.

The CHAIRMAN (Sir Edgar Tanner).-There is no point of order. The honorable member is giving a personal explanation.

Mr. GINIFER (Deer Park).-The honorable member exaggerated and attempted to justify the position of the Government.

I t is necessary, in considering the administration of the Government, to examine closely the position with regard to the training, teaching and assistance that is provided for deaf people in the Glendonald School for the Deaf. If the Minister of Housing had the requisite authority in the normal sense which it applies to buildings in this State, a demolition order would be placed on the Glendonald school building by the Housing Commission and it w'Ould be demolished. The building in question, Which has been condemned for some sixteen years, is the type of modern facility to which the honorable member for Oakleigh refers when claiming t~t thel Government has done a magnificent job. At Glendonald, classes are being conducted 'On verandas, which have been converted for use as classrooms by the teachers, with some assistance from the parents. These class-rooms can be enter'ed only by persons who are able to clamber through the windows. Valuable charts have been constructed by the teachers in an attempt to provide assistance and teaching aids that are not supplied by the Government. Unfortunately, the 'charts are often damaged by rainwater seeping through the ceiling. This is typical of the administration of a Government which has claimed over the past fifteen years to have done so much for this type of child.

The honorable member for' Oakleigh did not mention the fact that for many years teachers have

been forced to work 'under most difficult conditions, not only at Glendonald but in the Kew Cottages, at Royal Park and at various other institutions. The Government is trying to make a joke of a situation, which, to the Labor P,arty, is serious. The Government, which has neglected its responsibility, is not prepared to provide the assistance that is urgently needed at various institutions. The requests for assistance in the annual reports of the voluntary organizations, which are attempting to do something for these people, are completely ignored.

Whilst speaking of the teaching profession, it might be worth while to pOint out that, as a result of pressure from the Attorney-General or his department, the Minister of Education has allowed the rights and privileges of teachers as citizens in this community to be eroded. In support of my statement, I refer to a letter from the Attorney-General, addressed to all honorable members, in respect to the disqualification of certain persons from appointment as justices of the peace. Earlier this year, I made representations to the Attorney-General for the appointment as a justice of the peace of a person who was residing in Sunshine and who was teaching at the Avondale Heights Primary School.

A justice of the peace was urgently needed in the area. In fact, the local police required in the locality during normal working hours some person, such as a justice of the peace, who could sign documents. In reply to the representations made to him, the Attorney-General said, "The usual inquiries have been completed and they indicate that while Mr. Lorenz is a suitable person to hold such a position, he is a school teacher". Unfortunately, school teachers are amongst the category of persons who are not eligible to be appointed as justices of the peace. This is an inroad into the civil rights, the civil responsibilities and the democratic rights of members of the teaching profession in this State.


In a circular sent out by the Attorney-General, the reason given for this situation is that teachers may be transferred from place to place. In the majority of our large metropolitan schools, the principals are prepared to remain in their present positions until they retire from the Education Department. In a specific case with which I am familiar, a teacher had reached the top of the primary teaching service. This teacher, who was attached to a school which was adjacent to his home, had given an undertaking in his application that, if he was transferred from the area, he would resign his commission as a justice of the peace. Unfortunately, because of the blanket prohibition on teachers acting as justices of the peace, members of this profession are discriminated against and are not able to a'C'cept the same responsibilities as other persons in community life. I believe this matter should be examined.

In the past, a number of teachers have been appointed as justices of the peace but, for some reason, their services in this 'capacity are no longer required. The Minister of Education has been remiss in allowing his Cabinet colleagues to permit this type of situation to arise. The argument advanced against the appointment of teachers as justices of the peace may be applicable in rural areas where perhaps there is a tendency for teachers to transfer more frequently, but teachers should be entitled to have equal opportunity with other citizens for any type of 'civil responsibility which may be available to them.

Finally, I should like to refer to the theme of law and order to which the Government is trying to hitch its wagon, as it were. In this regard, I propose to refer to a question asked by the Deputy :Leader of the Opposition on 24th February of this year, as reported at page 2751 of Hansard. My colleague asked the Chief Secretary how many assaults and bashings had been reported to the police since 1st January, 1969, and at what

Mr. Gi11ifer.

locations these had occurred. The OppOSition is prepared to accept the answer to this question, as supplied by the Chief Secretary, even though it 'may appear to be harmful and hurtful to the honorable member for Hawthorn. The answer revealed that in the period in question-a little over a month-no fewer than 3,686 assaults and bashings had been reported to the police. His answer continued-

Precise details are not readily available. However, the number of assaults reported from the respective police districts were as follows:-

The honorable gentleman then stated how many cases of assault had been reported in the various police districts, the total number being 3,686.

Mr. WILKEs.-The figures refer only to the reported cases.

Mr. GINIFER.-That is true. In addition, many people are assaulted or accosted but, for various reasons best known to themselves, they prefer not to report the incidents to the police. This, in itself, is an indictment, not of the Police Department, but of the administration of the Government whi'ch, for reasons best known to itself, is not prepared to give to the Chief Commissioner of Police the open hand to which he is entitled in the recruitment of personnel and the improvement of opportunities within the Police Force.

On occasions, the Government has shown its readiness to intercede with the wages tribunals of this State in an attempt to dampen any encouragement which may be forthcoming for the employees' organizations from the various tribunals.

Mr. TREWIN (Benalla).-I wish to refer briefly to one or two matters on the subject of agriculture because the Supply schedule contains provision for the payment of salaries and other expenses in the field of agricultural administration for the ensuing three months. This is the day of diversification. Whether they like it or not, the farmers of Australia are


being asked to diversify their activities. Many persons who do not do so will find themselves next year in greater difficulties than they are at present. One must plan for the future, and regardless of what one has done in the past conditions may demand certain alterations. Throughout the ages, people who have made a living from the land have at times had to change their methods, ideas and type of production. Today, many farmers are facing this situation.

In Canada recently I found that wheat farmers are diversifying their activities and relieving a desperate position in one form of production by creating the opportunity for their country to enter new markets throughout the world. The Australian producer will have to accept a similar challenge. Owing to the fall in the price of wool, the Australian wool grower has had to diversify into other fields. This has resulted in the opening up of new land. I trust that the persons who use this land, particularly marginal areas, will have learned a lesson from the past and will not endeavour t'O over-produce. Through the Department of Agriculture and the Australian Agricultural Council, these people will have available to them knowledge to assist them in planning for the future.

Persons who till the soil must ensure that they replace what is removed or damaged. The growing of cereal crops removes certain elements from the soil which must be replaced. Farmers throughout Victoria today apprecia te the assistance rendered by the Department of Agriculture in their efforts to improve previously wornout soils which in many cases are now better than the virgin soils of 50 or 60 years ago. This result has been achieved by careful planning, good farming and the opportunity which many farmers have taken to diversify into other fields.

The Federal Minister for Primary Industry has been brave enough to speak widely, wisely and firmly to primary producers of Victoria and to take the criticism of many persons

who do not desire change. The Minister's knowledge and interest in primary production is now standing the farmer in good stead, and I believe it will be of great advantage to the primary producer of tomorrow.

The honorable member for Polwarth mentioned the clean, fresh air in his electorate in the near Western District. For too long, the people have been under the impression that such air is available throughout the State. I trust that, before it is necessary to spend millions of dollars in this great metropolis on reducing pollution of the atmosphere, renewing the drainage system and re-planning the city, both industry and housing will be decentralized- to country areas. There is plenty of good water in the country and plenty of fresh air. The Division of State Development is endeavouring to carry out its task within its limited resources. If the Government plans more diligently and with greater foresight for the future, larger cities should be established in the rural areas. Such plannmg must be undertaken in the near future because the populati'On of rural com'munities is decreasing. Many famiHes are leaving country areas because of the economic situation of the farming community and because they cannot find employment locally.

The ~ustraHan primary producer, particularly in Victoria, is m,aking a valiant effort to renew his faith in agriculture, but insufficient assistance is forthcoming from State Governments. Although liaison is evident between State Ministers of Agriculture it is not apparent to the same extent between State Governments. Ilf Australia is to survive as a nation and Victoria as a State it is imperative that industry should be decentralized and housing provided in rural areas for persons who desire to live there. If this w'ere done, the future progress of Australia would be greatly assisted.

Mr. FLOYD (Williamstown).- I had intended to defer my comments on one or two items until the debate on the Address-in-Reply is resumed,


but as this debate has developed it is imperative that some m·embers of the Opposition should reply to some of the idiotic co-m·ments of members of the Government party. I should be amazed to be informed that some olf the 'Subjects which have been discussed appear on the Supply schedule. I do not know how law and order came into the debate, but as members of the Labor Party have been accused of supporting vio:lence it is up to the Opposition to refute the tommyrot that has been advanced.

Memhers of the Liberal Party have asserted that Opposition members favour and encour-age demonstrat1ions and take the view that everybody is entitled to protest. W;e have been challenged to state where we stand. In myoId age I have no hesitation in saying that most demonstrations are stupid, futile and achieve no objective. I coined the saying which other people are now copying: "Write the word 'shame' on a banner and you can be in any demonstration; it gives you a sense of belonging". However, when dealing with an incompetent Government that has gone so far away from the people, there is only one way in which sincere people -I emphasize the word " sincere"can demonstrate their point of view to the Government. I do nat agree with the ratbag who has nothing to do and who should be studying at the university, but if a Government is proving itself incompetent, lazy and inept, somebody should do something about it. If you have any influence in the Government, Mr. Chairman, small as it is in the concept of world democratic government, you should try to smarten it up. Look at the state of the Chamber tonight; there ar-e two Ministers in attendance. They lost the toss during the dinner break! It is their job to listen to the debate but to take no notice. The young people of today have never had it better and I do not know what they will say to their children when telling

Mr. Floyd.

them what they went without when they were young. Most of us can tell the young people of today what we went without.

That does not alter the fact that when they find a democracy deteriorating they are entitled to protest. Democracy is deteriorating today. I do not know whether we are going through a phase. From the beginning of time the world has gone through many phases. There was feudalism and there have been all sorts of other isms. We have Capitalism, . Communism, and Syndicalism.

Mr. MEAGHER.-And Socialism. Mr. FLOYD.-That is probably the

best of the lot, because the Liberal Party supports it. The Federal Labor Governments in the early 1900s were despised by their opponents but it is amazing to learn that most of their ideas have been adopted. King O'Malley started the Commonwealth Savings Bank with nothing. The State Savings Bank and the State Electricity Commission were started with nothing. The present Liberal Government would not hand State instrumentalities over to private enterprise because it supports a form of State Socialism. We have been through various " isms" and we have reached the stage where the State is run by the Executive Council.

I can understand the House of Commons, the Parliament of the U.S.S.R. and the Parliaments of other big nations with hundreds of members being run by the Executive, but it sickens me to think that a puny, miniParliament such as the Victorian Parliament is run by the Executive. This Government has been in office for so long that the heads of the departments no longer care. They know that politically the Opposition will never get into Government, because it has too many forces working against it. Therefore, they do not care. They have become part of the Government. As a result the Opposition has become impotent. In the fifteen years that I have been in


Parliament, I have seen this pattern developing. The Ministers no longer care about this place, and they treat it with contempt. Members of the Opposition are treated with contempt. Some of the amendments we move become the subjects of Bills in a later session after having been initially discarded.

The people outside are hostile about this sort of thing and that is why they demonstrate. The Government may parade its ballot-box and Parliamentary systems, but unless they work it cannot expect people to go along with it. The people must know that members of the Opposition should be permitted to have a say in government, and that at pres·ent we have no say. I shall take the present position as an example. When the Leader of the Opposition moves for the adjournment of the House, he makes his speech and the Ministers sit on the other side of the Chamber. In other words, the first division is in and when they have finished they go out to' open a pickle factory or a jam factory and the second division is sent in. They keep the House going intermittently whilst members of the Opposition talk all night-whether that talk be good or bad. If members of the Opposition did not speak, this place would close. That is what the people are perturbed about. Democracy is on the way out and the Governm·ent has to arrest this decline.

I am not a revolutionary or a red ragger; in fact, the central executive of my party does not like me. However with everyone who loves the Parliamentary system, I am perturbed about the pattern that has developed of letting members of the Opposition do the talking, having the Premier rush in at about 10 p.m., wanting to know what is happening and saying that the House will meet early the next day because the Government's programme has been delayed. The way in which a Parliament should be conducted is to have competent people in the Government listening to suggestions from the Opposition, taking them into consideration and

putting them into a Bill. In that way people outside feel that the Opposition has some influence in running the country. Numbers are good; they can dispose of logic at any time, but when logic goes out of a debate and only numbers remain, democracy is dead.

My remarks on thi'S subject were prompted by the honorable member for Hawthorn, for whom I have the greatest respect because he likes law and order. So do I, but before we can justify our stand against the people outside who are demonstrating we have to inculcate into them a spirit of confidence so that they believe we are trying to do our best to make the democratic system work. I should not like to be a Minister. The world is becoming most demanding. I was a municipal councillor for many years and I realized that when persons did not own their own homes, they did not care whether the right-of-way or street was cleaned. But in this affluent society they have become most demanding and, consequently, it is a society in which people want everything for nothing. It takes a lot for municipal councillors and members of Parliament to stand up to this attitude.

The Government could do much in many ways to alleviate the sufferings of the community, particularly in non-politicall ways. Recently I asked how many cases were pending before the Workers Compensation Board. Honorable members will be amazed to learn that 2,855 cases have been pending for six months and 1,947 cases have been pending for twelve months, which is a total of 4,802 cases. Every one 'Of those cases is human, and the same story is spread over all electorates. Some cases may be trivial, but the several cases in which I have been concerned are abso'lutely pathetic. To be truthful, the people concerned could die before their cases are heard. Disorder is produced in a society that protests and can get nowhere. I urge the Government to try to plug the gaps.


One case with which I am concerned cannot be heard for another twelve months. The person involved is an ordinary worker who could have been occupied in a better job and on a higher wage. His savings will be dissipated before the case is heard. All pleas to the Workers Compensation Board have been met with the response that more urgent cases are waiting. The Government has stated that it is concerned about this matter. It could not be any more concerned than the person on the bread-line. The Government, through the Attorney-General, should facilitate proceedings by putting the more simple cases in the hands of a lesser tribunal. This would please the community, but failure to take some action brings the Parliamentary system into disrepute.

I wish to raise the subject of pensioners,of whom there are two types -the poor pensioner and the ordinary penSioner. Some pensioners can make do, but others cannot. I realize that this is a Federal matter, but surely some system could be devised to give assistance to the deserving pensioners as against those who are not so deserving. Recently I asked why differential rates should not be provided for pensioners by the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works. Why should the o~d folk who have paid rates for many years have to pay for the expansion of water storages such as the Upper Yarra dam and those elsewhere? Why should they be continually booked for expansion programmes instead of being charged only for the water and sewerage services they use? Let the young people who will reap the benefit in future pay a rate to build the Cardinia Creek dam, the Watson's Creek dam, and so on. The old folk should be relieved of the necessity to pay for capital works.

In answer to my question I was informed that adequate provision existed for pensioners. I realize that, under certain circumstances, payment of ra tes may be deferred and can be recovered from the estate. I agree with this system, but in the meantime the

Mr. Floyd.

money paid in rates might dissipate the estate. The Government should use its influence with the Board of Works to provide a differential rate for pensioners so that they need pay only for the services they use instead of footing the bill for capital works for freeways and "concrete spaghetti ". Why should the penSioners pay for the privileges of motorists who want to get from one place to another as quickly as possible? If some people missed one tum of the swing door, they would be late.

Mr. DOUBE (Albert Park).-I wish to make some brief comments on the points raised by the honorable member for Oakleigh on the question of education of mentally retarded children. He made some florid and complimentary statements about the Government which had nothing to do with the problems I raised. The severely retarded children are denied education in Victoria 'today. Children of this type on the waiting list cannot receive education. I am speaking not about institutional accommodation but about education.

A waiting list of twelve children exists at the Richmond-Hawthorn day centre. Surely the education of those children cannot wait, particularly when they are severely retarded. This type of child needs a great deal of help early in life. Despite the remarks of the honorable member for Oakleigh, the severely handicapped child is not getting a fair go from the Government, otherwise the waiting list would not be tolerated. How can any honorable member in conscience say that it is reasonable for a child needing education to be denied it? The Minister of Education with the Minister of Health is responsible under the principal Act to make arrangements to ensure that every child is educated, and that responsibility cannot be evaded. The Act does not say that 'the responsibility cuts off at an I.Q. of 50 or 60, as implied by the honorable member for Oaklegh. The Minister of Education is responsible for the education of the child with the lowest


capacity in the State. For all his fine words and corny drama, the honorable member for Oakleigh knows that these children are not educated.

Mr. SCANLAN.-They are ,educated.

Mr. DOUBE.-They are educated at special school level, but they have to be a certain type of child to get into a special school.

Mr. SCANLAN.-You have not taught at one.

Mr. DOUBE.-Of course, I have not. What has that to do with it?

Mr. SCANLAN.-If you had, you would know that education is being given to these children.

Mr. DOUBE.-Apparently one gets involved in a job and does not know what happens. The severely mentally retarded child is n'Ot admitted to a special school.

Mr. SCANLAN .-He is. Mr. DOUBE.-He is not. If he

were, there would be no day centres. Is the honorable member for Oakleigh or the Minister of Educati'On prepared to say that the children who are awaiting admittance to the Richmond-Hawthorn day centre will be accommodated in a special school?

Mr. SCANLAN .-1 cannot answer that question.

Mr. DOUBE.-Of course the honorable member cannot. He is under the delusion that special schools cater for every type of mentally retarded child, but that is not so. My advice to the parents of severely retarded children who for years have been awaiting admittance to day centres is that they should take their children to a prim,ary sch'Ool when the 'children reach school age. As I have said, the Education Act imposes a responsibility upon the Minister tiQ handle the educati'0nal problems of 'every child in this State no matter what is his degree of incapacity, and for that reason a severely mentally retarded child cannot be refused admittance to a primary school. In that way the problems of these children will be

spotlighted and the Minister will become more aware of his responsibilities. Some severely retarded children are probably the only children in Victoria who 'receive no education whatsoever. They are placed on waiting lists and, because of the Government's attitude, they remain 'On them forever.


The resolution was reported to the House and ad'Opted.

WAYS AND MEANS. The House went into Committee of

Ways and Means. Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Sec

retary) .-1 move-That towards making good the Supply


The moti'Onwas agreed to, and the resolution was reported to the H'0use and adopted.

CONSOLIDATED REVENUE (SUPPLY OCTOBER TO DECEMBER,

1970) BILL. Leave was given to Sir Henry Bolte

(Premier and Treasurer) and Sir Arthur Rylah (Chief Secretary) to bring in a Bill to carry out the resolution of the Committee 'Of Ways and Means.

Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Secreta'ry) brought in a Bill t'0 apply out of the Consolidated Revenue the sum of $152,631,400 to the service of the year 1970-71, and moved that it be read a first time.

The motion was agreed to, and the Bill was read a first time, and passed through its remaining stages.

ADJOURNMENT. Sir ARTHUR RYLAH (Chief Sec

retary) .-1 move-That the House, at its rising, adjourn until

tomorrow, at Three o'clock.


The' House adjourned at 11.2 p.m.

VICTORIA · 2016-03-29 · VICTORIA PARLIAMENTARY'i)EBATES (HANSARD) FORTY-FIFTH PARLIAMENT FIRST...

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Transcript of VICTORIA · 2016-03-29 · VICTORIA PARLIAMENTARY'i)EBATES (HANSARD) FORTY-FIFTH PARLIAMENT FIRST...