2011-10-21 Koh's Mtn to Reconsider Prior Ruling on Mtn to ... · 12 came on forhearingon a MOTION...

EXHIBIT A

I

1 STATE OF ILLINOIS

2 COUNTY OF COOK

3 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COOK COUNTY ILLINOISCOUNTY DEPARTMENT - CRIMINAL DIVISION

4 SECOND MUNTCIPAL DISTRICT

5 THE PEOPLE OF THESTATE OF ILLINOIS

6

Plaintiff7

vs No. 09 CR 091518

HYUNGSEOK KOH9

Defendant.10

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGSi1

BE IT REMEMBERED that the above-entitled cause12 came on for hearing on a MOTION TO QUASH ARREST AND

SUPPRESS STATEMENTS before the Honorable GARRITT13 HOWARD on November 13 2009 in Skokie Illinois.

14 APPEARANCES

15 HON. ANITA ALVAREZStates Attorney of Cook County by

16 MS. MICHELE GEMSKIE and MS. VICTORIA KLEGMANAssistant States Attorneys

17 for the People

18 MESSRS. ELLIOT ZINGER and PATRICK WALSHAttorneys at Law

19 for the Defendant.

20 MR. MAN HO HONG Official Interpreter

21

22

23 Ellen Mott-Jablonski CSR RPROfficial Court Reporter

24 Illinois License No. 084-001407

OFFICIAL COURT RZPORTERS - $47 470-7290

Exhibit A -- 1

Mr. Kohs Mot. Reconsider Supp. Br. Mot. Suppress.

39

1 sustained.

2 BY MR. ZINGER

3 Q. You had in your mind at that time the

4 question of whether or not your son was dead I think

5 you said

6 A. No I not disbelieve sic that one. Im

7 feel still alive. Because my wife was very -- hurry

8 to go to the hospital.

9 Q. Were you panicking at the time

10 A. Oh yes. Definitely yes.

11 Q. What was your wife doing when she was on the

12 ground on the lawn

13 A. Oh shes crying. She says she -- whats

14 going to do Are we going to go to the hospital.

15 You know. And then she be asking. And she crying is

16 it.

17 Q. Why did you want to go to the hospital

18 A. Because is I want my son is make sure.

19 Q. Now were you and your wife taken to the

20 Northbrook police station at any time

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Were you taken to -- do you know where the

23 police station

24 A. Yes. They take the police station.

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS - 847 470-7290

Exhibit A -- 2


52

1 A. In English Yes.

2 MR. ZINGER Okay. Wed ask that it be

3 admitted into evidence.

4 THE COURT Defense 3 will be admitted.

5 MR. ZINGER Thank you.

6 BY MR. ZINGER

7 Q. While you were in the police car did you

8 want to be in the police car

9 A. No. I dont want it this. I go to the

10 hospital.

11 Q. Did you ever tell the driver you want to go

12 to the hospital

13 A. I talk to this to go to the hospital. But

14 they say just yes yes yes and then turn right.

15 Q. Did you know what direction right was

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Okay. Were you ever given any kind of arrest

18 warrant shown an arrest warrant by any of the police

19 officers

20 A. No. They didnt show that time.

21 Q. Okay. Im going to ask if this can be

22 interpreted at this time please.

23 A. No. Totally no.

24 Q. Okay. Were you ever shown a search warrant

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS - 847 470-7290

Exhibit A -- 3


STATE OF IL I1NaI5

SSaouvlY OF C 0 0 K

IN THE CSROJIT COURT OF COOK COUNT r ILLINOISCOUNTY DEPARTMENT-CRIMINAL DIVISION

PEOPLE OF THE STATEOF ILLINOIS

Plaintiff

vs. 09 CR 9151

WUNGSCOK KOH

Defendant.

MDtICN ID QL ASH ARREST AND SUPPRESS EVIDENCE

REPORT OF PROCFHGS had at the hearing in

the above-entitled cause before the HONORABLE CARRITTE.

HOWARD Judge of said court on the 22nd day of march

2010.

PRESENT

HON. ANITA M. ALVAREZSTATES ATTORNEY OF CJOOK C NTY byMS. MICHELE A. GDMSKIEAssistant States Attorney

Appeared on behalf oo the Plaintiff

P.R. ELLIOT R. ZINGERPrivate Defense Attorney

Appeared on behalf of the Defendant

Barbara Liberko official Court ReporterLicense No. 084-001023

1

Exhibit A -- 4


1 Q Did you take your time in doing this project

2 A Yes.

3 Q How much time did it take you to do this

4 project

5 A i didnt have a measurement of the time but

6 to my guess my approximation is about three to

7 four hours.

8 Q The video itself was a couple of hours

9 A I think so. I believe its over one hour. I

10 didnt take any measurements.

11 Q Right. But the Korean part obviously was a

12 lot shorter

13 A Yes.

14 Q You carefully listened to every Korean

15 question every Korean answer and you carefully

16 translated it in that document

17 A Yes.

18 Q And that document truly and accurately

19 depicts year official translation of what you saw in

20 that video correct

21 A Yes.

22 R. ZIN R lark you. I have no further

23 questions. And we would nave to introduce Defendants

24 rAber 12 int o evidence as a spplement to the video

81

Exhibit A -- 5


1 that was tendered last week.

2 THE taw any objection frcrn the State

3 MS. SKIS No your Honor.

4 -RE awn okay oefendarrts 12 is admitted.

5 Cross eXanination.

6 CROSS EX fl1 ICN

7 BY MS. GDME8 Q Can you tell me a 1i the bit abort the

9 training that youve had as an interpreter or

10 translator

11 A I an a graduate of Northstern university in

12 English parts. Im an industrial engineer and I got a

13 masters degree of that school. since then I was

14 working at skill Corporation as an industrial engineer

15 for seven years and after that I have experience of

16 sales of insurance. And that time I mostly translated

17 the English -- I mean the insurance policies and claim

18 forms into Korean for Korean clients. and after that I

19 have my own agency named Korean Trans7atia7 t etuoi

20 mostly doing Korean/English translation interpretation

21 of the Court also.

22 Q Your masters though was in electrical

23 engineering

24 A mistrial.

82

Exhibit A -- 6


1 STATE OF ILI IS

SS2 TrYOFCOOK

3 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF O CX V Y IlLINOISMUNICIPAL DEPARDENT - SE XI D MWICIPAL DISTRICT

4

THE PEOPLE OF THES STATE OF ILLINOIS

6 Plaintiff

7 09 CR. 9151

8 HYT..N3SE0K KOH

9 Defendant

10

Report of Proceedings on the hearing had11 before the WI AE LE GARRITT 7WARD Judge f the

Circuit Court of Cook County Illir is on the 15th12 day of July 2010 upon the proceed of

toeabove-entitled case.13

APPEARANCES14

HON. ANITA M. ALVAREZ15 State I s Attorney of Cock Comty by

M. MICHELE G51SM16 MS. VICrCRIA KL W

Assistant States Attorney17 appeared for the People

18 MR. SOT ZflERapp cared for the Defendant.

19

20 ALSO PRESENT Official Korean Interpreter

21 Helen Miller C.S.R.Official Ccuxt Reporter

22 License No. 084-004434

23

24

1

Exhibit A -- 7


1 the Horning of the ni rder correct

2 MS. GEMSKCE Objection foundationhasto when.

3 THE COURT Sustained.

4 BY MR. ZIIR

5 Q Were you made aware of that fact at any tine

6 A Yes.

7 Q When were you first made aware thgt the

8 neighbor of the Kohs heard a scream and a bang

9 A I m unsure of that.

10 Q It was prior to the second inter4ew

11 correct

12 A To be honest Im unsure if it wa6 before

13 that.

14 Q But you confronted Mr. Koh and asked him why

15 didnt he hear the scream and the bang correct

16 MS. GEMSKIE Objection.

17 THE COURT Overruled.

18 You may answer.

19 T WITNESS Evidently I did. I dont renather

20 that part of the interview either.

21 BY MR. ZIl.

22 Q Well when you did that he was yrar suspect

23 wasnt he

24 MS. GEMKCE Objection.

121Exhibit A -- 8


1 T COW.- Sustained.

2 BY MR. ZINGER

3 Q You didnt believe anything he told Isnt

4 that why you asked him questions such as that

5 M5. E C ijecticn.

6 THE T Sustained.

7 BY MR. ZINGER

8 Q Who was your cotmrander that ordered you to

9 interrogate Mr. Koh

10 MS. G v E.. objection.

11 TEE OOLRT Poor choice of wands but overruled.

12 You may answer.

13 THE WITNESS It was Cmr r er Dunham.

14 BY MR. Z

15 Q Is that the same Camander Dunham uto came

16 into the interview roan prior to Interview Number 3

17 ending who knocked on the d or

18 A Yes.

19 Q And when Oarnmarnder Dunham knocked on the

20 door that was about 3 minutes before Suspect Vim

21 Nunter 3 ended correct

22 A Approximately.

23 Q And what -- and the videotaping sttcd

24 correct

122Exhibit A -- 9


1 A Yes.

2 Q And you had a conversation with cxrwxler

3 Dunham correct

4 A At what point

5 Q When you left the roan in the middle of

6 Suspect Videotape NLmt er 3--7A Yes yes.

8 Q -- you had a conversation with Officer

9 Dunham. Youve already testified to that

10 conversation--11A Yes I did.

12 Q -- direct examination

13 A I didnt know if you meant--14Q And Qxmex r Dunham told you that the

15 defendants attorney was in the police station and

16 wanted to speak with his client isnt that correct

17 A He said the attorney would be on h.s way.

18 Q V at do you mean oin his way19 A He said he would be caz his way bacc here.

20 Q To the door where you were

21 A Yeah. I assxmred that yeah.

22 Q Well did you -- when you carne back into the

23 room did you tell my client your attorney is ou

24 his way

123Exhibit A -- 10


1 A I did not.

2 Q Do you understand that the law in this state

3 requires you to do that

4 A I did not.


6 THE CXJRT Sustained.

7 BY MR. ZINCR.

8 Q Why didnt you tell him your attorney is

9 here to see you would you life to speak with him

10 A We went--11MS. GEMSKLE Objection.

12 TM WITNESS -- one step farther in bringing the

13 attorney back to the room.

14 UE WJRT Overruled. Answer may std.

15 BY MR. ZINGER

16 Q My question is Why didnt you tell him that

17 his attorney was on the way and would like to speak

18 with him

19 MS. GEMSKIE Asked and answered.


21 You may answer sir.

22 THE WITNESS At that time I didnt know if it

23 was his attorney it was his wifes attorney. All I

24 know is it was an attorney coming back.

124Exhibit A -- 11


1 BY MR. ZINGER

2 Q Cawonder Dutbam came up to the cbor and

3 told--4A -- said.

5 Q -- his attorney did he not

6 A No. He said there was an attorney there.

7 Q He just told you an attorney was sing8 into the police station and you didnt even know

9 whose attorney it was Is that your testier

10 A Theres an attorney there. The w4y I assumed

11 is that Mr. Koh never asked for anattorney

never

12 wanted an attorney. When he said theres an attorney

13 here for Mr. Koh hell be on his way back -- thats

14 exactly what he told me.

15 Q He told you an attorney for Mr. Koh is on his

16 way. Isnt that what he told you when he knocked on

17 the door

18 A Theres an attorney here that wants to see

19 Mr. Koh and hes can his way back here that is

20 correct.

21 Q And did you convey that message toMr. Koh

22 THE COLRT You already established that

23 Counsel.

24 BY MR. ZIl

125Exhibit A -- 12


ORIGINAL

1 STATE OF ILLINOIS

2 COUNTY OF COOK


4 SECOND MUNICIPAL DISTRICT

5

THE PEOPLE OF THE6 STATE OF ILLINOIS

7 Plaintiff

8 vs No. 09 CR 09151

9 HYUNGSEOK KOH

10 Defendant.

11 REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS

12 BE IT REMEMBERED that the above-entitled causecame on for hearing before the Honorable GARRITT

13 HOWARD on May 16 2011 in Skokie Illinois.

14 APPEARANCES

15 HON. ANITA ALVAREZStates Attorney of Cook County by

16 MS. MICHELE GEMSKIE and MS. VICTORIA KLEGMANAssistant States Attorneys

17 for the People

18 MESSRS. ANDREW VAIL DANIEL FENSKEMS. TERRI MASCHERIN and MR. ELLIOT ZINGER

19 Attorneys at Lawfor the Defendant.

20Also present Mr. limo Son

21 Korean Court Interpreter.

22

23

Ellen Mott-Jablonski CSR RPR24 Official Court Reporter

Illinois License No. 084-001407

Exhibit A -- 1 17


1 We expect that the State is going to meet

2 its burden of proof at every stage to show that the

3 defendants statements were voluntary and

4 furthermore that its probative value exceeds the

5 prejudicial value. And well be asking you to deny

6 the defendants motion. Thank you.

7 THE COURT All right. State you may call

8 your first witness.

9 Please remain standing. Raise your right

10 hand and be sworn.

11 Witness sworn.

12 Please be seated.

13 MS. GEMSKIE Judge before we begin I have

14 discussed with counsel. There was a rather lengthy

15 motion to quash arrest. We have agreed to stipulate

16 to the testimony that was heard at the motion to

17 quash arrest in an attempt to not duplicate a lot of

18 the same testimony.

19 Is that agreed

20 MR. VAIL Thats been agreed your Honor.

21 THE COURT Okay. Just so the record is clear

22 are you stipulating to all the testimony at the

23 motion or individual witnesses or how are you doing

24 that

19Exhibit A -- 18


1 MS. GEMSKIE We have no problem stipulating to

2 the entirety.

3 MR. VAIL We agree.

4 THE COURT So all of the testimony that I

5 heard pursuant to the motion to quash arrest and

6 suppress evidence is admitted as part of this

7 hearing.

8 MR. VAIL That is correct your Honor.

9 MS. GEMSKIE Thank you Judge.

10 THE COURT All right. So stipulated.

11 Does that include exhibits as well

12 MS. GEMSKIE Yes Judge.

13 THE COURT Counsel

14 MR. VAIL Yes your Honor.

15 THE COURT Okay. Very well.

16 MS. GEMSKIE Im sorry. Youve been sworn

17 THE WITNESS Yes I have.

18 DETECTIVE MARK GRAF

19 having been first duly sworn was examined and

20 testified as follows

21 DIRECT EXAMINATION

22 BY MS. GEMSKIE

23 Q. Detective Graf would you please once again

24 introduce yourself to the judge

20Exhibit A -- 19


1 A. I didnt say the words youre free to

2 leave no.

3 Q. Before you started the first interview of

4 Mr. Koh did you advise him that he could stop the

5 interview at any time

6 A. That was part of the Miranda rights.

7 Q. And that was something that you said to

8 him

9 A. No.

10 Q. So you did not advise him

11 A. No no no.

12 Q. Before you started the interview with Mr.

13 Koh did you advise him he was free to speak to anyone

14 he wished at that time

15 A. He was told that by other people. I didnt

16 personally know that people were there but I believe

17 officer Johnson and them told him he was there.

18 Thats why in the interview at the beginning when it

19 said the lawyer he asked if could he speak to his

20 pastor. So thats when I found out that the pastor

21 was there.

22 Q. So lets step back to that. What youre

23 telling us is when he was giving his Miranda warnings

24 he asked to see a pastor

78Exhibit A -- 20


1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And did you allow him to see a pastor

3 A. I said you can have your attorney. We

4 wanted to talk to himself. We dont usually like to

5 bring someone in the room when were talking because

6 that person may interject something that they said.

7 So in most cases we dont have somebody sitting there

8 if were trying to get information from them.

9 Q. If someone was not under arrest and they

10 had asked you to see their pastor though you could

11 have stopped the interview and allowed him out of the

12 room to go see the pastor. Right

13 MS. GEMSKIE Objection. Relevance.


15 BY MR. VAIL

16 Q. Did you in this case when he asked to see

17 the pastor stop the interview and allow him to see

18 the pastor

19 A. No. He didnt ask to see him. He asked if

20 he could come into the interview with him.

21 Q. How did you know that Mr. Koh asked to see

22 a pastor

23 A. He said it in the interview. To Phil.

24 Q. He said it to Phil in English

79Exhibit A -- 21


1 A. No. I believe it was in Korean because he

2 said can he see the pastor. He said no.

3 Q. You testified earlier you dont understand

4 any Korean. Right

5 A. No. Phil.

6 Q. So Phil told you

7 A. Well he said it -- I dont know. I cant

8 be quoted. But I dont know if he said it to me and

9 I said it to him or he said it to Phil.

10 Q. Who is he

11 A. To Mr. Koh.

12 Q. Mr. Koh said to Phil what

13 A. He was asking if he could have his pastor.

14 Q. And Phil told that to you

15 A. In the interview. I believe he said it to

16 me yes.

17 Q. And what was your response

18 A. I dont know if I told him or Phil told

19 him but he said that you cant have your pastor in

20 here. You can have your attorney in the interview if

21 you like.

22 Q. Did Phil Kim have the authority to make

23 those types of decisions during your interrogation


$0Exhibit A -- 22


1 are going to be doing I explained to him beforehand

2 that we were going to be video taping. He expressed

3 that he understood that we had the video camera

4 going that we were going to tape it.

5 And then as I started I explained that we

6 were going to do Miranda. He was nodding and

7 acknowledging that he was understanding what I was

8 saying.

9 Q. And we saw the video in the form from the

10 Miranda form that he signed at the beginning of the

11 first interrogations. Right

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And did you pick up on that he signed that

14 form before Kim translated it to him

15 A. He as I handed it to him he started

16 signing it. Yes.

17 Q. This was before it had been translated to

18 him in Korean isnt that right

19 A. I think he just started in translating it

20 to him yes. That is correct.

21 Q. And do you recall when he signed that

22 form when he was to put in the date and time that

23 he was going to put in the wrong date and time the

24 date and time of Pauls death. You had to redirect

Exhibit A --88

23


1 him that he needed the date and time of today

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. So he didnt understand what date and time

4 he was supposed to put on that form



7 BY MR. VAIL

8 Q. Do you recall what the first question you

9 asked Mr. Koh during the first interview was

10 A. Yes. I said Im going to ask you some

11 questions -- this may not be verbatim. But I said

12 were going to ask you some questions about the

13 events of the night of this night. But before we

14 start that can you tell me a little bit about very

15 briefly tell me about Paul about his friends and

16 what type of person he was.

17 Q. And that was all one long first sentence to

18 the question

19 A. Yes it was.

20 Q. It wasnt broken up where you first asked

21 him what we wanted to do is we want to talk about

22 what happened last night. Okay And then let him

23 respond to that

24 A. That is correct. It was one question.

89Exhibit A -- 24


1 altercation with him then when he came home late

2 Answer Oh yeah. Oh no.

3 What did you take Mr. Koh to be telling

4 you there that he had been or had not been into an

5 altercation with his son prior to that night

6 A. Well thats when he used the interpreter.

7 Right after that.

8 Q. Right after that.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Lets talk about right before that the

11 part I just read to you

12 A. I mean at that particular time I dont know

13 if I had an answer. Thats what Im reading here.

14 But I probably didnt have an answer. Yes.

15 Q. Okay. So it wasnt clear to you

16 A. No.

17 Q. It was confusing to you

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. During the second interview at some point

20 do you recall Mr. Koh smacking himself on the head

21 A. T do remember in the second interview like

22 oh yeah. I do remember now. Yes.

23 Q. Thats what he said when he smacked himself

24 on the head oh yeah I do remember

Exhibit A --124

25


1 Paul with the phone. I know she said she called out

2 to him.

3 Q. It was your testimony earlier that Mr. Koh

4 told you that when he went to look for Paul he

5 checked the computer room area correct Not that he

6 went onto the computer.

7 A. I believe what he said was he went to check

8 the computer. Then he checked his bedroom. And he

9 checked the family room.

10 Q. what does that mean or what does it mean

11 when he checked the computer

12 A. I guess he would check to see if Paul was

13 on the computer in that room to see if he was there.

14 Thats what I took it as.

15 Q. Okay. Lets turn to the end of the second

16 interview near the very end of it. You were told

17 that an attorney had arrived for Mr. Koh right

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And Commander Dunham came to the room and

20 told you that

21 A. Yes. He knocked on the door.

22 Q. Knocked on the door. You left the room

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. And what did as best as you can remember

Exhibit A --146

26


1 Commander Dunham tell you when you two went outside

2 of the room

3 A. He said there was an attorney coming and

4 he would bring him back.

5 Q. Okay. And you did not have that

6 conversation in the room in front of Mr. Koh right

7 A. No I did not.

8 Q. When you came back into the room did you

9 tell. Mr. Koh that an attorney was coming back to the

10 room

11 A. I did not.

12 Q. And why didnt you do that

13 A. I -- he was bringing the attorney back for

14 him. So--15Q. And instead of doing that you rushed Mr.

16 Koh to give you a confession in the case didnt you

17 A. I continued my interview.

18 Q. Could we play that video clip

19 Exhibit played.

20 So that was the third tape in the second

21 period. I mean its 1812 to 1915. And from the

22 transcripts page 154 lines 3 to 23.

23 That knock at the door was the knock that

24 we just talked about Commander Dunham coming

Exhibit A -- 14727


1 telling you the attorney was coming right

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Why did you tell him to hurry up4 A. To finish the interview.

5 Q. Why did you clap in his face

6 A. I couldnt tell you why I clapped in his

7 face. I mean I could tell you that we were

8 finishing the interview. And we were right there. I

9 had him actually at that point admitting to what was

10 happening. And you want to continue the interview.

11 You dont want to leave a lull in an interview or

12 give them a time to start you know coming up with

13 an excuse of what happened. Once they start giving

14 you the information you want to continue the

15 interview. And thats always the technique in your

16 interviews.

17 Q. You understood it in your experience that

18 when that attorney got back to the room he was going

19 to ask you to stop the interview right

20 A. Absolutely. Yes.

21 Q. Just a few more questions Sergeant Graf

22 then I think Im done here with my cross.

23 First you were promoted to sergeant after

24 Mr. Koh was arrested for the murder of his son

Exhibit A --148

28


1 STATE OF ILLINOISSS

2 COUNTY OF C O 0 K




6

Plaintiff7

vs. No. 09 CR 91518

HYUNGSEOK KOH9

Defendant.10

11 Report of proceedings on a Motion

12 to Suppress Statements had at the above-entitled

13 cause before the Honorable GARRITT E. HOWARD Judge

14 of said Court on the 31st day of May 2011.

15 APPEARANCES

16 HON. ANITA M. ALVAREZStates Attorney of Cook County

17 By MS. MICHELE A. GEMSKIE andMS. VICTORIA A. KLEGMAN

18 Assistants States Attorneyon behalf of the People

19ELLIOT ZINGER ASSOCIATES

20 By MR. ELLIOT R. ZINGERon behalf of the Defendant.

21

22

23 Stacy L. PaolinoOfficial Court Reporter

24 CSR License No. 084-004349

1

Exhibit A -- 29


1 BY MS. GEMSKIE

2 Q. The portion that I just played you shows

3 you and the defendant speaking to each other in

4 Korean after Detective Graf says hes going to tell

5 Miranda rights. What is it that you are saying to

6 the defendant and what is he telling you

7 A. I am saying to him that -- Im gonna say to

8 him that Im gonna be explaining his human rights to

9 him and that I will be explaining -- or translating

10 or interpreting as hes reading it off.

11 Q. And what does the defendant say to you

12 A. That he didnt know what human rights were.

13 Q. And why is it that you were using the term

14 human rights as opposed to Miranda rights

15 A. Because Mirandas the name of a case. A

16 name wouldnt translate over into Korean. It would

17 still be Miranda so ..

18 Q. if you were to say Miranda in Korean it

19 would just be Miranda

20 A. Right it would just be Miranda.

21 Video played.

22 Video paused.

23 BY MS. GEMSKIE

24 Q. At that point Detective Graf asked the

13Exhibit A -- 30


1 Video paused.

2 BY MS. GEMSKIE

3 Q. What does Detective Graf advise the

4 defendant of

5 A. That you have a right to remain silent.

6 Q. And what happens once Detective Graf tells

7 him that right

8 A. Theres a pause and I translate. I say to

9 him You have a human right to not say anything if he

10 doesnt want to in Korean.

11 Q. And what is the defendants response at

12 that point

13 A. He nods his head in the affirmative where

14 he acknowledges me.

15 MR. THOMSON Objection.

16 THE COURT Sustained as to the last portion of

17 the answer.

18 BY MS. GEMSKIE

19 Q. And does the defendant also make a

20 statement out loud in English

21 A. Yes. He responds yes in English.

22 Video played.

23 Video paused.

24

17

Exhibit A -- 31


1 BY MS. GEMSKIE

2 Q. And at that point what does the detective

3 advise the defendant

4 A. That anything he can and say will be used

5 against him in a court of law.

6 Q. Did you end up translating that right for

7 the defendant

8 A. No I did not.

9 Q. And why not

10 A. Because he appeared to have understood what

11 I had said. He did not look at me and responded in

12 English to the last question.

13 MR. THOMSON Im gonna object.

14 THE COURT Whats your objection

15 MR. THOMSON I think it states -- I dont

16 think anyone responded to that. I think the evidence

17 is what it is and this is where we get into the

18 problem.


20 Video played.

21 Video paused.

22 BY MS. GEMSKIE

23 Q. What does the detective advise him at that

24 point

18

Exhibit A -- 32


1 THE COURT I can hear what he advised him.

2 MS. GEMSKIE Well Id like to make it clear

3 for the record Judge.

4 THE COURT Okay.

5 THE WITNESS That he has a right to an

6 attorney with him while hes being questioned.

7 BY MS. GEMSKIE

8 Q. And how does the defendant respond

9 A. He does not seem confused at all.

10 Q. And when he nods his head is it in an

11 affirmative way or in a way that suggests he does not

12 understand

13 A. He nods affirmatively.

14 MR. THOMSON Objection.


16 BY MS. GEMSKIE

17 Q. Do you explain that right to him

18 A. No I do not.

19 Q. And why not

20 A. Because he appears to understand.

21 Video played.

22 Video paused.

23 BY MS. GEMSKIE

24 Q. And what does the detective then advise him

19Exhibit A -- 33


I Q. If I can stop you for one moment.

2 Are you and the defendant alone then in

3 that conference room that you can see in the video

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. And what was the reason that you said that

6 to the defendant

7 A. Well I didnt want to be disrespectful in

8 any way in case like my honorifics werent that

9 fluent.

10 Q. And when you say -- I know you explained

11 this in the motion to quash arrest but once again

12 can you explain what you mean by honorifics

13 A. Its a language set within our language

14 which reflects respect for his elders strangers and

15 people of high positions.

16 Q. So you didnt want to insult him--17A. No I did not.

18 Q. -- would that be fair to say

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. After the defendant asked you to translate

21 for his wife did you remain in the room with the

22 defendant

23 A. Yes I did.

24 Q. And did anything else happen while you were

28Exhibit A -- 34


1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Do you recall writing in that police report

3 that you apologized to Mr. Koh because your Korean

4 was quote Not as fluent as I would like it to be

5 A. Yes.

6 MS. GEMSKIE Objection. Theres no quotes.

7 And I would also object that its non-impeaching.

8 THE COURT Could you repeat your question

9 Counsel

10 BY MR. THOMSON

11 Q. Do you recall what you wrote in terms of

12 your ability or your fluency or lack thereof--13THE COURT Im asking for my benefit.

14 MR. THOMSON Im sorry.

15 THE COURT For my benefit will you reread the

16 question you just asked

17 MR. THOMSON Sure.

18 BY MR. THOMSON

19 Q. You wrote in your police report April 16th

20 2009 that you apologized to Mr. Koh because your

21 Korean was quote Not as fluent as I would like it

22 to be. Do you recall reading that

23 THE COURT And your objection is

24 MS. GEMSKIE Number one it is not in quotes

43Exhibit A -- 35


1 and number two its non-impeaching.

2 THE COURT Well its arguable as to whether

3 or not -- it doesnt have much impeachment value.

4 Ill allow it. Overruled.

5 You may answer. Is that what you wrote in

6 your report

7 THE WITNESS Yes your Honor.

8 BY MR. THOMSON

9 Q. And do you recall if you wrote anything

10 in that report that you apologized because of

11 honorifics

12 A. No.

13 Q. You didnt include that in your report did

14 you

15 A. No.

16 Q. And Im gonna talk about -- theres two

17 interrogation sessions of Mr. Koh that day correct

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Im gonna talk about them kind of

20 collectively as the interrogation okay

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. During the interrogation did you ever tell

23 Detective Graf or Detective Ustich that you

24 apologized to Mr. Koh on April 16th over your level

44

Exhibit A -- 36


1 of Korean

2 A. No.

3 Q. And when yoi met with Mrs. Koh and

4 translated for her interrogation you also apologized

5 to her for your level of Korean isnt that correct

6 A. Thats correct.

7 Q. And you didnt tell Detective Graf or

8 Detective Ustich about that apology either did you

9 A. No I did not.

10 Q. Now I believe you testified that you said

11 you used honorifics with Mr. and Mrs. Koh because you

12 wanted to show them respect is that correct

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. You wanted them to trust you is that

15 right

16 A. I dont know if thats exactly the motive.

17 Its just respect.

18 Q. Well let me just ask you did you want

19 Mr. and Mrs. Koh to trust you when you were in there

20 MS. GEMSKIE Objection relevance.


22 BY MR. THOMSON

23 Q. Officer Kim you wouldnt say youre fluent

24 in Korean would you

45

Exhibit A -- 37


1 Q. Okay. Now when you were elaborating on

2 the right to an attorney in Korean did you use

3 honorifics

4 A. That same way I was using it before the

5 non-disrespectful way in the casual sense.

6 Q. And did you inform Mr. Koh when you were

7 speaking Korean that he had the right to an attorney

8 present at the interrogation at that time

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And do you believe he understood at that

11 time that he had a right to an attorney present

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And when you told him about his right to an

14 attorney he asked for a pastor isnt that right

15 A. Yes he did.

16 Q. And you told him no he could not have a

17 pastor isnt that right

18 A. Yes I did.

19 Q. And you didnt translate Mr. Kohs request

20 for his pastor to Detective Graf or Detective Ustich

21 at that time did you

22 A. It was in English.

23 Q. Excuse me

24 A. He said -- I think he said pastor in

54

Exhibit A -- 38


1 THE COURT Move on. And you certainly may

2 make the argument at the appropriate time that it was

3 not responsive.

4 BY MR. THOMSON

5 Q. Officer Kim do you know the word for sink

6 in Korean

7 THE COURT Sink s-i-n-k

8 MR. THOMSON Yes.

9 THE WITNESS Hearing it right now Im all a

10 little--11MS. GEMSKIE Im gonna object as to relevance.

12 THE COURT Ill allow him a little latitude.

13 Where you going with this

14 MR. THOMSON Just three questions on this

15 your Honor.

16 THE COURT Okay. Go ahead.

17 BY MR. THOMSON

18 Q. So sitting here today you cant recall

19 what the word for sink is in Korean is that fair to

20 say

21 A. Not right now yes.

22 Q. What about the word strainer

23 A. Not right now.

24 Q. What about the word dish rack

75

Exhibit A -- 39


1 MS. GEMSKIE Im gonna renew my objection.


3 MR. THOMSON Ill move off that your Honor.

4 THE COURT I didnt hear the answer.

5 BY MR. THOMSON

6 Q. Sorry. Go ahead. If you can give an

7 answer.

8 A. I didnt give an answer.

9 Q. I apologize.

10 THE COURT Do you know dish rack in Korean

11 THE WITNESS Not right now sir.

12 BY MR. THOMSON

13 Q. During the interrogation you observed

14 Mr. Koh confusing words in English isnt that fair

15 to say

16 MS. GEMSKIE Objection calls for speculation

17 to the defendants mind.

18 THE COURT Overruled. You may answer.

19 THE WITNESS Can you repeat that sir

20 BY MR. THOMSON

21 Q. Sure. I think I asked you do you recall

22 observing Mr. Koh confusing words in English

23 A. If youre asking if I recall not at this

24 moment but I dont want to testify that it didnt

76

Exhibit A -- 40


1 THE WITNESS Im sorry. I need to speak up

2 THE COURT Ordinarily it would be okay but

3 weve got an interpreter. You know Im hearing the

4 interpreter so you have to speak louder so that I

5 can hear you over the interpreter.

6 THE WITNESS Yes sir.

7 THE COURT Thank you.

8 BY MR. THOMSON

9 Q. Just so the records clear you didnt go

10 and tell Mr. Koh at any point that he could speak

11 with his pastor correct

12 A. No I did not.

13 Q. And you didnt tell Mr. Koh that he could

14 speak with his daughter correct

15 A. I did not.

16 Q. And during April 16th prior to the end of

17 that interview no one -- you never witnessed anyone

18 tell Mr. Koh that he could speak with his pastor

19 correct

20 A. No I did not.

21 Q. And you never witnessed anyone tell

22 Mr. Koh that he could speak with his daughter

23 correct

24 A. Thats correct.

90Exhibit A -- 41


1 to people who are at the police station

2 MS. KLEGMAN Objection.


4 THE WITNESS We would typically give Miranda

5 warnings if we were going to embark upon custodial

6 interrogations. And Ive always instructed my guys

7 to err on the side of caution and provide Miranda if

8 theres any doubt.

9 BY MR. ZINGER

10 Q. Okay. So it would be your procedure and it

11 was your procedure on the date of this incidentthat

12 if there was a custodial interrogation you would

13 give Miranda warnings


15 BY MR. ZINGER

16 Q. You would require the detectives to give

17 Miranda warnings correct


19 THE WITNESS Yes.

20 BY MR. ZINGER

21 Q. And thats in fact why Miranda warnings

22 were given to Mr. Koh at the outset at 730 a.m. and

23 later at approximately 1130 a.m. correct


113Exhibit A -- 42


1 BY MR. ZINGER

2 Q. There were no log-in sheets on the date of

3 this incident correct

4 A. Not attorney-specific log-in sheets no.

5 Q. Well if an attorney came to the police

6 station would that attorney be expected to sign in



9 THE WITNESS Typically at that time our

10 assignment procedures were probably more lax than

11 they are now. And if he was accompanied by an

12 officer and was an attorney or officer of the court

13 we typically would not probably have required them to

14 sign in as a visitor.

15 BY MR. ZINGER

16 Q. You mentioned that at 1250 you went to the

17 lobby of the police station correct

18 A. Yes approximately.

19 Q. And at that time the interrogation of my

20 client Mr. Koh was still going on correct

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. You were aware of that

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Okay. And can you tell the Court why you

124Exhibit A -- 43


1 went to the lobby of the police station

2 A. To get his attorney.

3 Q. To get Mr. Kohs attorney

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. And how did you become aware that Mr. Kohs

6 attorney was in the lobby

7 A. I was notified by someone and I dont

8 recall who or if it was a phone call or direct

9 notification but somebody told me that there was an

10 individual in the lobby representing themselves as an

11 attorney that wanted to speak with Mr. Koh.

12 Q. And you have no idea who this person was

13 who notified you

14 A. I dont.

15 Q. On the date of this incident you compiled

16 a police report correct

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. And on that date you also had no idea who

19 notified you correct


21 THE COURT Overruled. You may answer if you

22 know.

23 THE WITNESS. T probably remembered on that

24 date.

125

Exhibit A -- 44


1 A. Im sure it was somebody that worked for

2 the police department.

3 Q. You do have citizens working in the lobby

4 for the police department correct

5 A. Civilians

6 Q. Civilians.

7 A. Yes. It may have been a civilian or a

8 police officer.

9 Q. Okay. But you do know for sure that they

10 told you that Mr. Kohs attorney was in the lobby

11 correct

12 A. That there was somebody in the lobby

13 representing themselves as an attorney that wanted to

14 speak to Mr. Koh.

15 Q. In other words an attorney for Mr. Koh

16 you were clear about that correct



19 BY MR. ZINGER

20 Q. You were not under the impression that the

21 attorney in the lobby was an attorney for any

22 situation or any person outside of Mr. Koh who was

23 being interrogated by Detective Graf is that fair to

24 say

128

Exhibit A -- 45



2 THE COURT Counsel I think youve made your

3 point. Somebody told the commander that there was

4 somebody who said he was Mr. Kohs attorney and

5 wanted to talk to him that was the message.

6 BY MR. ZINGER

7 Q. How do you know it was 1250 when you got

8 that notification

9 A. I wrote that in the police report.

10 Q. That it was 1250 when you were first

11 notified

12 A. Approximately 1250 I believe I wrote.

13 Q. So it could have been a few minutes before

14 it could have been a few minutes after

15 A. Approximately yeah.

16 Q. It could have been correct



19 THE WITNESS I wrote approximately.

20 BY MR. ZINGER

21 Q. When you had the conversation with the

22 person who notified you about the attorney did you

23 say anything else to this person did they say

24 anything else to you during that conversation

129Exhibit A -- 46


1 A. No nothing else that I recall.

2 Q. Okay. And did you immediately go to the

3 lobby

4 A. Yeah. I ..

5 Q. How long did it take you to walk to the

6 lobby

7 A. I dont recall where I was. So I proceeded

8 to the lobby and talked to the attorney in the lobby.

9 Q. But you were in the police station

10 A. I was.

11 Q. So it didnt take you more than say a

12 couple of minutes correct

13 A. No I dont think so.


15 THE COURT Overruled. The answer may stand.

16 BY MR. ZINGER

17 Q. Did you go anywhere else in between going

18 to see the attorney Did you go anywhere else in

19 between walking from wherever you were in the police

20 station to go see the attorney

21 A. No.

22 Q. So you went directly to see the attorney

23 A. Yes_

24 Q. Did you see an attorney there

130

Exhibit A -- 47


1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Did this attorney hand you his business

3 card

4 A. He did.

5 MR. ZINGER Im gonna mark this as Defendant

6 No. 4.

7 Defendants Exhibit No. 4 was

8 marked for identification.

9 BY MR. ZINGER

10 Q. Let me show you what Ive marked as

11 Defendant No. 4 for identification. Is that a copy

12 of the attorneys business card that was handed to

13 you

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And the name on that business card is

16 Michael J. Shim attorney at law correct

17 A. Yes.

18 MR. ZINGER S-h-I-m.

19 BY MR. ZINGER

20 Q. And you had a conversation at that time

21 with Mr. Shim

22 A. I did.

23 Q. As you were holding his business card

24 correct

131

Exhibit A -- 48


1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And during that conversation Mr. Shim told

3 you he came to see Mr. Koh

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Did Mr. Shim tell you that he was aware

6 that Mr. Koh was being interrogated in the police

7 station

8 A. I dont believe so.

9 Q. Did you tell Mr. Shim that Mr. Koh was

10 being interrogated in the police station


12 Q. What did you tell Mr. Shim

13 A. I told Mr. Shim I would go advise Mr. Koh

14 of his presence.

15 Q. Well what did Mr. Shim tell you before you

16 told him that

17 A. That he was at the station to see -- on

18 behalf of the Kohs or Mr. Koh.

19 Q. Okay. And you were aware that there was an

20 interrogation going on correct

21 A. Um-hmm.

22 Q. And you were also aware that the focus of

23 the interrogation was Mr. Koh correct

24 A. Yes I was.

132

Exhibit A -- 49


1 BY MR. ZINGER

2 Q. Were you aware in Illinois that a police

3 department or a police official has to advise the

4 person who is being interrogated that his attorney is

5 in the building

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Okay. You were aware of that correct

8 A. Yeah.

9 Q. Okay. So after Michael Shim told you he

10 was there to see Mr. Koh you didnt bring him to the

11 interrogation room with you correct

12 A. Right.

13 Q. Why not



16 THE WITNESS Because I went back to advise

17 Mr. Koh -- to advise the detective that his attorney

18 was here and see if he wished to speak with him.

19 BY MR. ZINGER

20 Q. See if who wished

21 A. Mr. Koh.

22 Q. Okay. You had the attorney in the lobby

23 wanting to speak to the client correct

24 A. Yes.

135

Exhibit A -- 50


1 Q. Why didnt you take Mr. Shim with you to

2 the interrogation room so that he could speak to his

3 client


5 THE COURT Sustained. That was just asked and

6 answered Counsel.

7 BY MR. ZINGER

8 Q. So you chose to leave Mr. Shim in the

9 lobby correct



12 THE WITNESS Yes.

13 BY MR. ZINGER

14 Q. And you are aware that if you took Mr. Shim

15 to the interrogation room he likely would have

16 halted the interrogation youre aware of that

17 correct



20 BY MR. ZINGER

21 Q. Are you aware from your experience that

22 attorneys who come to the police station to speak to

23 their clients generally their intention is to halt

24 the police interrogaton of their client

136

Exhibit A -- 51


1 Q. So it took you a couple minutes to get to

2 the interrogation room correct

3 A. Um-hmm.

4 Q. And -- thats a yes

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And when you got there the door was

7 closed

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And you knocked on the door

10 A. I did.

11 Q. Now prior to knocking on the door at the

12 interrogation room lets say 1240 had you ever

13 been to that interrogation room before that day or

14 that morning


16 THE COURT You mean during the course of the

17 interviews with your client

18 MR. ZINGER Yes.


20 THE WITNESS I dont believe I had been.

21 BY MR. ZINGER

22 Q. Certainly not noted in any of your reports

23 correct

24 A. No.

138Exhibit A -- 52


1 BY MR. ZINGER

2 Q. Did you go there

3 A. Im not understanding your question.

4 Q. Did you go to the interrogation room before

5 1250 p.m.

6 A. I dont believe I did.

7 Q. When you went to this interrogation room at

8 1250 you knocked on the door and Detective Graf

9 came out correct

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And the videotape was still going on

12 correct

13 A. I believe so.

14 Q. And you had a conversation with Detective

15 Graf correct

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And what did you tell him at -- was there

18 anyone else present during this conversation

19 A. No I dont believe so.

20 Q. Where did it occur right outside of the

21 interrogation room

22 A. Yeah right at the door.

23 Q. Was the door closed or open

24 A. I dont recall.

140

Exhibit A -- 53


1 BY MR. ZINGER

2 Q. You did tell him that In essence you

3 told Detective Graf the moment he opened the door and

4 you engaged in the conversation that Mr. Kohs

5 attorney Michael Shim was in the police station and

6 wanted to speak to his client Henry Koh

7 MS. KLEGMAN Objection leading.

8 THE COURT Thats leading again Mr. Zinger

9 but Ill allow it. Overruled.

10 Is that what you told him

11 THE WITNESS Yes. Not verbatim but yes I

12 told him that there was an attorney here to see him.

13 BY MR. ZINGER

14 Q. Michael Shim

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And you made it specific that he was there

17 to see Mr. Koh

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. There was no confusion on that subject

20 correct


22 Q. In fact thats the only thing you went to

23 the room for correct

24 A. Yes.

142

Exhibit A -- 54


1 Q. Did you tell Detective Graf to stop the

2 interrogation

3 A. No.

4 Q. Why not



7 BY MR. ZINGER

8 Q. Did Detective Graf ever tell you that after

9 you told him that an attorney for him was present in

10 the police station he was going to stop the

11 interrogation


13 THE COURT Overruled. Did he tell you that

14 THE WITNESS No.

15 BY MR. ZINGER

16 Q. He did tell you something though when you

17 told him Mr. Kohs attorney was there correct

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And in essence what he told you -- do you

20 remember what he told you

21 A. I dont verbatim or specifically. Yes I

22 remember the essence of what we discussed.

23 Q. What was--24THE COURT Which is what

143

Exhibit A -- 55


1 BY MR. ZINGER

2 Q. And in your opinion was that decision in

3 the course with what the law requires you to do as a

4 police officer in Illinois when an attorney comes

5 into the building


7 THE COURT Sustained. Im gonna have to make

8 that call Counsel. I am familiarwith the law.

9 BY MR. ZINGER

10 Q. So you went again back to the lobby

11 correct

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And while you were back at the lobby and

14 walking back to the lobby the interrogation

15 continues correct


17 THE COURT Hes not in the room Counsel.

18 BY MR. ZINGER

19 Q. Do you know if the interrogation continues

20 while you were going to the lobby



23 BY MR. ZINGER

24 Q. Did you advise Mr. Koh when you came to the

145

Exhibit A -- 56



2 COUNTY OF C O O K



5 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATEOF ILLINOIS

6

Plaintiff7

vs. No. 09 CR 91518

HYUNGSEOK KOH9

Defendant.10

11 REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS had at the hearing inthe above-entitled cause before the HONORABLE GARRITT

12 HOWARD Judge of said court on the 27th day of JuneA. D. 2011.

13

APPEARANCES14

HONORABLE ANITA M. ALVAREZ15 States Attorney of Cook County by

MS. MICHELE A. GEMSKIE16 MS. VICTORIA L. KLEGMAN

Assistant States Attorneys17 appeared on behalf of the People

18 MR. ELLIOT R. ZINGERMR. DANIEL T. FENSKE

19 MR. ANDREW W. VAILappeared on behalf of the Defendant.

20

21 ALSO PRESENT limo Son Korean interpreter

22

23 ANCA HRISCA CSR RPROfficial Court Reporter

24 CSR Licence No. 084-004682

Exhibit A -- 1 57


1 understand what was being said.

2 There was a -- to confuse matters further

3 there was a police officer -- I believe it was a

4 police officer -- who was acting as an interpreter at

5 times and as an interrogator at times and who made

6 what seemed to have been inaccurate translations of

7 what was being said by the detective conducting the

8 interrogation. So the overall effect was both that

9 the language problem introduced confusion into the

10 process and in addition it introduced another very

11 significant stress that increased the overall level

12 of stress under which Mr. Koh was operating.

13 Q. I believe you also mentioned that certain

14 interrogation techniques were used that also

15 increased the amount of stress is that correct

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. How so

18 A. Well I refer to two levels of stress

19 induction. There are a group of techniques which

20 are ordinarily used in interrogating individuals by

21 Chicago area police that primarily come out of the

22 Reid organization and those techniques are

23 deliberately designed and specifically described

24 as intended to induce stress and tension in the

Exhibit A -- 48 58


1 consistent with what the interrogator had told him

2 and this is a very common phenomenon in individuals

3 with disturbed memories.

4 People want to have good memories. They

5 want to be able to remember so they -- if someone

6 says to them oh well heres what happened theyll

7 often adopt what was told to them as what happened

8 and theyll often lose track of where they got the

9 information from. Its called a source error in

10 memory.

11 So he may have been at the time he said--12he may have been having a memory in the sense that

13 he -- there was a memory -- a statement that the

14 interrogator said This is true he was trying to

15 fill in the gaps of his memory and he may at that

16 moment have believed that he was describing something

17 that indeed happened but the statement is totally

18 unreliable. Its based on what hes been convinced

19 of in the interrogation not based on anything that

20 he actually remembers from the time of the events.

21 Q. And I believe you testified earlier that

22 conducting the interrogation in English rather than

23 in Mr. Kohs -- primarily in English rather than

24 Mr. Kohs native language increased the stress on

Exhibit A -- 85 59


1 Mr. Koh. Can you explain the basis for that

2 A. Yeah. It increased the stress in two ways.

3 That is anyone who is being interrogated or trying

4 to work in a language which theyre not entirely

5 familiarwith is under considerable stress just in

6 terms of trying to understand whats going on trying

7 to express ones self. Anyone whos learned a second

8 language has the experience of that kind of stress

9 from time to time.

10 The issue of language is further confused

11 because he had an interpreter or someone who was

12 acting as an interpreter during part of the

13 evaluation -- or during part of the interrogation

14 and the interpreter is -- appears to have been making

15 inaccurate translations of some of the things that

16 were said and this leads to a great deal of

17 confusion about whos saying what what the status

18 of what certain things are.

19 In particular theres a tremendous

20 confusion about the difference between whats being

21 translated back into English his human rights versus

22 legal rights. So his comprehension is almost

23 certainly impaired by having to have the interrogation

24 largely in English with a little bit of questionable

Exhibit A -- 86 60


1 translation thrown in.

2 Q. Your last statement regarding human rights

3 versus legal rights I think had to do with the

4 Miranda warnings is that correct

5 A. Thats correct.

6 Q. Now leaving it at simply language

7 difficulties how does having a mistranslation of

8 Miranda affect someones ability to voluntarily

9 respond to questions

10 A. If you dont understand what the Miranda

11 warnings or rights are because theyve been

12 translated wrong then you cant possibly voluntarily

13 agree to what has been translated to you. If it

14 isnt clear what the language of Miranda is agreeing

15 to -- agreeing or failing to agree to the translation

16 would seem to me to be meaningless.

17 Q. Now during your interview of Mr. Koh back

18 in December of 2010 -- thats when it happened

19 correct

20 A. Right.

21 Q. Did you discuss with Mr. Koh a Korean

22 term that Im going to not pronounce correctly but

23 I believe its moo pie kwan did you discuss that

24 phrase with Mr. Koh

Exhibit A -- 87 61


1 A. Okay. I talked earlier about my sources

2 of knowledge of Korean culture and on the basis of

3 that one of the features of Korean culture is to be

4 relative -- more deferential to authority than

5 Americans normally are.

6 So on a cultural basis Mr. Koh would be

7 more likely than the average native-born American to

. attempt to be polite deferential cooperative even

9 in the context of an interrogation and less likely

10 for example to assert his legal rights in that

11 context.

12 Q. Now would Mr. Kohs cultural background

13 affect the particular choice of words he would use

14 when responding to a question from someone like a

15 police officer

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. How so

18 A. That is rather than saying zio which

19 would be experienced as confronting and highly

20 negative to the police officer hed be more likely

21 to use words that are designed to be a little bit

22 evasive but polite saying things like maybe or

23 perhaps words that avoid confrontation with the

24 fact that he actually disagrees with the police

Exhibit A -- 91 62


1 officer.

2 Q. Now there were times however during the

3 interrogation were there not when Mr. Koh actually

4 gave a direct yes or no answer to his interrogating

5 officers is that correct

6 A. Thats correct.

7 Q. Now can you explain how thats consistent

8 with the testimony that you just gave

9 A. Yes. Its consistent in a couple of ways.

10 One is that this -- this use of a more polite more

11 Korean manner in the first place is most likely to

12 occur as stress increases. People who are under

13 stress will move back to earlier ways of functioning.

14 The other issue is as I said the mental

15 state that was associated with the diabetes and

16 ammonia disorder both come and go so that there

17 will be times during this interview where hes really

18 quite clear and quite with it and other times when

19 hes I believe quite out of it and not able to

20 follow whats going on and respond in a mature and

21 competent way.

22 Q. Now did you form an opinion in evaluating

23 Mr. Koh and the other evidence in this case as to

24 whether or not Mr. Kohs statements were the result

Exhibit A -- 92 63



2 COUNTY OF C O O K




6

Plaintiff7 No. 09-CR-09151

VS.8

HYUNGSEOK KOH9

Defendant.10

11 MOTION TO SUPPRESS. STATEMENTS

12 REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS of the motion had before

13 the Honorable GARRITT HOWARD Judge of said court

14 heard on the 2nd day of September 2011.

15 APPEARANCES

16 HON. ANITA M. ALVAREZStates Attorney of Cook County by

17 MS. MICHELE GEMSKIE andMS. VICTORIA KLEGMAN

18 Assistant States Attorneysappeared for the People

19

MR. ANDREW VAIL MR. DAN FENSKE20 MS. TERRI MASCHERIN MR. KYLE PALAZZOLO

and MR. ELLIOT ZINGER21 appeared for the Defendant.

22 Ms. Melissa J. ReardonOfficial Court Reporter

23 5600 Old Orchard RoadSkokie Illinois 60077

24 License No. 084-004256

1

Exhibit A -- 64


1 them that I was calling on behalf of Mr. Koh that

2 I represented him.

3 BY MR. VAIL

4 Q. After you finished your call with the

5 Northbrook Police Department what did you do next

6 A. Well I drove to the police station.

7 Q. Did you go directly to the police

8 station

9 A. I did.

10 Q. And when you arrived at the Northbrook

11 Police Station then what did you do

12 A. Well I entered the building and I

13 talked with the officer behind the glass told that

14 person who I was.


16 THE COURT Sustained. Just try to lay your

17 foundation as much as possible.

18 BY MR. VAIL

19 Q. Mr. Shim the person you talked to at the

20 police station did they identify themselves or

21 appear to be affiliated with the Northbrook Police

22 Department


24 THE COURT Thats two questions but Ill

8

Exhibit A -- 65


I allow it. Overruled. You may answer.

2 THE WITNESS When I walked in it was a

3 person behind the plate glass. He asked me why I

4 was there I assumed that that person was

5 associated with the department yes.

6 BY MR. VAIL

7 Q. And when he asked you why you were there

8 what did you tell him

9 A. I told him my name and I said I was here

10 for Mr. and Mrs. Koh.

11 Q. Did you give him a business card

12 A. I cant remember if I gave him a business

13 card at that time probably I did. Im not for

14 certain.

15 Q. And after you spoke

16 THE COURT Im sorry Counsel. I need this

17 First of all do you know approximately what time

18 this was that you were talking to this person

19 THE WITNESS Your Honor I probably got there

20 between 30 and 40 minutes after I made the phone

21 call. Would have been about 1230 1240.

22 THE COURT Was this person you were speaking

23 to in uniform

24 THE WITNESS I believe so.

Exhibit A -- 66


1 THE COURT Did you get the persons name

2 THE WITNESS I did not.

3 THE COURT Was it a male or a female

4 THE WITNESS I believe it was a male.

5 THE COURT Can you describe the person any

6 further

7 THE WITNESS No.

8 THE COURT All right. Continue.

9 MR. VAIL Thank you.

10 BY MR. VAIL

11 Q. After you spoke to that officer what did

12 you do next

13 A. Well I just waited.

14 Q. And why did you wait

15 A. Well nobody came and got me. I couldnt

16 go in.

17 Q. And where did you wait

18 A. In the lobby area.

19 Q. And did you wait in the lobby area the

20 entire time

21 A. I believe I did.

22 Q. How long did the police leave you waiting

23 in the lobby area before they came to you next

24 MS. LEGMAN Objection.

10

Exhibit A -- 67


1 THE COURT Poorly phrased question but Ill

2 allow it. You may answer.

3 THE WITNESS Approximately I would say 20

4 25 minutes. I just remember waiting for a long

5 time in the building.

6 BY MR. VAIL

7 Q. How did your wait in the lobby end

8 A. I believe a detective came out and I

9 think maybe at that time that detective asked me

10 for my card. And then I gave him my card and he

11 went back inside and I still stayed outside.

12 Q. And how much longer did you wait after

13 that person came out and saw you

14 A. Between five and ten minutes.

15 Q. And then what happened

16 A. And then I believe a detective came out

17 again for the second time and then brought me in.

18 Q. And where did he bring you

19 A. He brought me in through the door and to

20 the back where all the other detectives were.

21 Q. Approximately how long did it take for

22 you to go from the lobby area to the back where the

23 detective brought you

24 A. Less than a minute.

11

Exhibit A -- 68


1 Q. When you got to the interrogation room

2 did you see Mr. Koh

3 A. I did.

4 Q. When you saw Mr. Koh in the interrogation

5 room visually how did he appear to you

6 A. He just looked very tired. He had an--7I guess they gave him a blanket to put over

8 himself. He seemed very cold just disoriented.



11 MS. KLEGMAN Medical conclusion Judge.

12 MR. VAIL One moment Judge.

13 THE COURT You can cross on it.

14 BY MR. VAIL

15 Q. I want to bring you back to when you

16 first came to the police station and spoke to the

17 person at the front disk. Did you tell that person

18 that you were a lawyer there to see the Kohs or

19 Mr.

--20A. Oh yes yes.


22 THE COURT Whats your objection

23 MS. KLEGMAN Hearsay.


12

Exhibit A -- 69


1 police uniform or was in civilian clothes

2 A. I believe the person had on a police

3 uniform.

4 Q. Are you sure about that or--5A. Yeah I dont know.

6 Q. okay. But anyway you spoke to the

7 person man woman uniform or non-uniform behind

8 the glass correct

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. You gave them information about who you

11 were and why you were there

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Did you see what that person did then

14 Did they make a phone call Did they leave and get

15 up and go somewhere Do you remember what

16 happened

17 A. I do not.

18 Q. Now you say that you waited

19 approximately youre saying today 20 to 25 minutes

20 before somebody came out

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Is that would you say a fair estimation

23 of how long you waited

24 A. As far as I can remember.

15

Exhibit A -- 70


1 Q. Was he dressed in uniform

2 A. I believe he was dressed in uniform.

3 Q. Okay. Do you remember if it was a blue

4 uniform a white uniform white shirt

5 A. I believe it was white.

6 Q. And when you spoke to that person is

7 that the person you gave your business card to

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And again you identified who you were

10 why you were there

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. That person then left and went somewhere

13 A. Right.

14 Q. There was about five or ten minutes

15 before he came back and took you back to where

16 Mr. Koh was

17 A. I believe so.

18 Q. When you went back to where Mr. Koh was

19 were you taken into the room where he was seated

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. And were you able to speak to him alone

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Now you stated on direct-examination that

24 Mr. Koh looked disoriented. What do you mean by

17

Exhibit A -- 71


1 MS. GEMSKIE No further questions your

2 Honor.

3 THE COURT All right. Were going to take a

4 five-minute recess before the cross. Lets see if

5 we can limit the recess to five minutes.

6 Doctor feel free to stretch your legs. Do

7 not discuss your testimony with anyone during the

8 recess.

9 Recess taken.

10 THE COURT Counsel you may proceed with your

11 cross-examination.

12 MR. PALAZZOLO Thank you your Honor.

13 CROSS-EXAMINATION

14 BY

15 MR. PALAZZOLO

16 Q. Good afternoon Dr. Lourgos. How are

17 you

18 A. Good.

19 Q. Just to be clear youre not testifying

20 today that Mr. Koh actually understood the Miranda

21 warnings given to him on April 16th 2009 correct

22 A. No. That is what I am testifying to.

23 Q. That he had an actual understanding of

24 the rights

101

Exhibit A -- 72


1 A. He had the ability to understand his

2 Miranda rights at the time.

3 Q. He had the ability to understand

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Not that he actually did understand

6 MS. GEMSKIE Objection relevance.


8 THE WITNESS My response is that he didnt

9 have any medical condition. He didnt have any

10 type of psychiatric condition that would have

11 impaired his ability to understand his Miranda

12 rights at the time.

13 BY MR. PALAZZOLO

14 Q. And so every time during your

15 examination your direct examination when you said

16 confusion you were referring to a clinical level

17 of confusion correct

18 A. A medical diagnosis.

19 Q. A medical diagnosis of confusion


21 Q. What does that mean

22 A. Its a medical term. Confusion

23 delirium those are all confused medical states.

24 Q. Separate and apart from regular

102

Exhibit A --73


1 have impaired someones ability to understand

2 Miranda. So in all evaluations that forensic

3 psychiatrists do the only thing were experts in

4 is that area of our expertise. Many things go into

5 a confession that are non-psychiatric and

6 non-medical. We address the ones that are

7 specifically medical and psychiatric. Thats our

8 scope of expertise.

9 Q. So your report and your opinion today

10 doesnt consider a whole host of outside figures

11 such as stress language difficulties cultural

12 backgrounds interrogation techniques or things of

13 that nature correct

14 A. Stress is something -- out of all those

15 stress does come into play. The other ones are

16 beyond the scope of what we address.

17 Q. Going back to the morning of April 16th

18 2009 there was no mental status assessment done on

19 Mr. Koh that morning correct

20 A. I didnt see any no.

21 Q. The next mental status assessment was

22 done on April 17th more than 24 hours after the

23 interrogation correct

24 A. I dont have the exact time frame but it

105

Exhibit A -- 74


1 experiencing -- they describe the situation acutely

2 stressful. And when youre asking the specifics to

3 describe what was happening before and after they

4 have difficulty recalling the specific events

5 because in a situation like that its difficult to

6 actually form the memory.

7 Q. Is it fair to say that traumatic

8 incidents would make it more difficult to form

9 memories correct

10 A. Correct yes.

11 Q. Youre aware that Mr. Kohs native

12 language is Korean correct

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Were you aware in meeting Mr. Koh that

15 during his restaurant days his daughter was

16 actually the one who handled communication for him

17 A. No I didnt know that.

18 MS. GEMSKIE Assumes facts not in evidence.


20 BY MR. PALAZZOLO

21 Q. You elected to conduct the entire

22 interview with Mr. Koh in Korean is that correct


24 Q. Did you select the interpreter that was

108

Exhibit A -- 75


1 used in the interrogation or in the interview that

2 you had with him

3 A. We asked for a Korean interpreter.

4 Thats about it.

5 Q. And it wasnt the same Korean interpreter

6 that was used during Mr. Kohs interrogation is

7 that correct

8 A. It didnt look like the person on the

9 videotape.

10 Q. During your interview with Mr. Koh you

11 required all of his answers to be in Korean

12 correct

13 A. Correct.

14 Q. And even when he started to answer you in

15 English you stopped and made him answer in Korean

16 correct


18 Q. Youre not offering an opinion today on

19 Mr. Kohs ability to understand English is that

20 correct


22 Q. During your interview with Mr. Koh you

23 reviewed the Northbrook Police Departments

24 Statement of Miranda Rights form correct

109

Exhibit A -- 76


1 Mr. Koh he had been involved in this case for

2 nearly two years correct

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. He had been represented by counsel

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And he had been through several court

7 appearances where Miranda had been an issue

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. In watching the interrogation video of

10 Mr. Koh are you aware that most of the

11 interrogation if not all of it was done in

12 English

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And again youre not offering an

15 opinion here today on how well Mr. Koh understands

16 English


18 MR. PALAZZOLO Could I have a moment your

19 Honor

20 THE COURT You certainly may.

21 BY MR. PALAZZOLO

22 Q. Dr. Lourgos are there specific clinical

23 criteria for the designation of confusion

24 A. Yes.

111

Exhibit A -- 77


EXHIBIT B

SEP-3-2010 1450 FROM TO13128408788 P.2

KOREAN TRANSLATION NETWORK800 E. N.W. Highway Suite 731

Palatine 11160074

Tel. 847 705.4966 Fax 847-703-3850 a-Mail kortran1hotmail.com

Certificate of Translation

This is to certify that the translation of the documents attached herewith and listed

below isare correct and accurate. I undersigned Sungki Cha as the Director of the

Korean Translation Network who is highly qualified and professionally specialized in

Korean documents of legal commercial and technical fields and is competent in both

Korean and English to render such translation.

List of Documents

Suspect Interview-Hyeong Seok Koh

Subscribed and sworn before me

on this 6th day of July 2009

in the County of Cook State of Illinois Certified by Date

N tary Public Su ha

BRIAN HFRTEL

NOTPA PUBLIC STA1 F Ow ILLINOIS

p V CcmtA13SIONEXFIFIL.S

A1.15 oB. 2041

SEP-3-2010 1450 FROM T013128408788 P.3

Suspect Interview 100000305

Police P

Police2 P2

InterpreterI

Koh K

P Were just going to ask you a few questions. Were probably talk to you again after this. But before

we do that were going to read you your Miranda rights. OkKoh looks at the interpreter

0032 -0050

I 0J1-Z429--. zOS101I2. He will read... by human rights.

K Li WhatI QI Human rights.

K QI jaHuman rights

I xIo �$� I�1 v� 8N CW7112.. Right now... will explain.. will explain by reading.

K Okay.

P2 What is he asking

I What Miranda rights are and I told him were going to read to him his rights.

P Ok. Do you know what your rights are

I -- I Ji0I 4 Of Ail g Do you know what human rights you haveK I dont know.

P Okay. Im gonna read these to you and any of these you dont understand then you can just tell meokayK K nods okay.

0057 -0238

P You have the right to remain silent. Do you understand thatKI li3l 2I H.E. SI 01 401 5ULICf You have human rights not to say anything.

K Yes.

P Anything you say can be used against you In the court of law okK no response

P You have a right to talk to a lawyer and have him present with you during any questioning okK nods a little

P If you cant afford to hire a lawyer one will be appointed to represent you before any questioning If

you wish okP And understanding these rights do you wish to talk with usK nods a little

P Ok. You sign here. hands over the paper and the date.

K Can you ask... this basic... what this one Koh points to the paper to transfer Koh points to theinterpreting police

P Yes absolutely.

1

SEP-3-2010 1450 FROM TO13128408788 P.4

0138 0235

Koh signs the paper

I 0171 01 1 FoHE E1 45712R. This human rights... you dont have to talk.

K indistinct mumble

l i_il�i�X171��I Fs iAlX715.0 T 0f 7ig V _qW R1-R.01 71

AAF JOI-. Q A 01 -Ai.1Q Yes. Right now. What youre saying with us. Saying anything. Can

be used by law. Here. You have human rights... with the lawyer.

K I think its pastor

I Of L I R. L4 J.f tiQ Af Of LJ-7 Qg4 t Af No. Lawyer only. Not pastors. Or you

can... lawyers...

K Ate X18$WOf R. You dont need a lawyer.

I nods OI. dRiF I AIF alO1TAjig.. Yes. Please write the date and the time.

K looks at the police officer This happens earlymorning... 340...

P No youre gonna-putthe date right now. The date and time right now1 7 Al136 1wr �1. Ll c1. Its 736

0236 0306

hands over the paper

P My name is detective and this Is detective ok And were with the Northbrook police.

This gentleman I believe youve already been introduced to his name is Phil. Hes gonna help in... youknow help you talk with us. If there is anything you dont understand in English juststop me and wellhave Phil interpret for you ok Well let you use the bathroom coffee or water is there anything else

you needed

2

SEP-3-2010 1450 FROM TO13128408788 P.5

Suspect Interview 3 0000 2131 end

0015 0315

P.M. we just started a new tape. Ok. It is now 1235. We just placed a new tape in there ok I want

you to... See if you can turn a little bit. I want you to switch chairs with me here ok You sit here okKoh switches chairs with P We just got you a glass of water right Youve got everything you need

P Hyeong Seok.

K Yea.

P Were right there. Were right there for the whole truth to come out ok Were right there. And I

think youre ready to tell us the whole truth now. I think youre ready to tell us what happened. Youknow what happened last night ok And we know what happened last night Hyeong Seok. We know.We gathered all the evidence at the station ok I know that you went and washed your hands ok I

know you washed your hands at your house after you touched... Yea. I know all that stuff ok But what

I need to know now is what really happened ok I need to know this.

I of Xi AI J FOIIAi... fc71 in your house... you washed your hands...

P2 Look we dont think youre a bad person.

1 1 I Lf L Affol 24 4J �__ J-HR. We dont think youre a bad person.

P2 We wouldnt be spending all this time here with you if we thought you were a bad person.

I L. A g01 Efl o $ 01 E4 Al jF1... If we think you were a bad person this time...

P You need to tell the whole truth now And thats what were going to do now. Were gonna tell what

really happened for Paul. Were gonna do this for Paul right now. Were gonna say exactly what

happened ok And I want you to be honest. Hyeong Seok are you ready to tell me the whole storyK Absolutely.

P Areyou ready to tell me the whole storyK nods yes.P Are you ready to tell me the whole story Honestly.

K keeps nodding yes its what I-

P Release and let yourself go okI cuts in and says2AjIQ. Release.P Release yourself dont be 200 and say what happened with Paul. We need to know for

everyones sake what happened to Paul okK Just give me a second and Im gonna try to do some memory of what youre going to... whats going

on-PHyeong Seok you know what.. you know what happened. Hyeong Seok listen. You dont needto-Listen.This was a traumatic incident that happened last night with your son ok And you would

remember what happened. And I want you to be honest now. Idont want you to... Right now youre

delaying. Youre trying to delay me in telling me what happened. You know EXACTLY what happenedlast night right now in your head. But youre trying to change that. Youre trying to think Im not sure if

I wanna... if I wanna... if I want this to be... done with. It needs to be done with now ok And this is the

time. I like you to... Were sitting here ok We dont- Look were not judging you as being a bad personor a good person. Thats not what were here for. Were here to find out what happened for the sake of

3

SEP-3-2010 1451 FROM TO13128408788 P.6

Paul ok So that Paul... Paul can just... be free... of what happened In this incident ok And only you can

do that because everyone else is telling us stuff right now so lets get to it.

0310 -05-.00

P You wake up its 1 oclock in the morning. Pauls not in his bedroom. Youre angry. Right Am I

correct Is this all correct Ok so you go downstairs and Pauls not in the house. You tell your wife that

Pauls not in the houseK no response- doesnt understand the questionP Remember we talked to your wife.

K my wife Yea

P Hyeong Seok how come your wife can remember but you cant now Be honest. You do this that

means youre lying to us.

K no no

P And you already lied to us about a few things like I told you.

K no no

P We know more than you think we know okK nodsP So after you go down and y6u find out that hes not there did you tell your wife that hes not there

K long pause with no response looks at I

P Did you call him

I Dkaot kEij � cF a W R 01.Q $k Ofl 0 P.M.. Did you tell your wife that

Paul was not there Did you tell her That Paul is not In the houseP. Did you call him

IOjQdid you call herK I think so...

P. Did you call him on the phoneK looks at I no responseP Ok. You cant remember if you called him on the phone. Did you go in the car and go look for himK no reponse

P Hyeong Seok come on. You were -

K I think this is uh... I think this is uh... I look at the car. I think so.

P OK but did you get in the car and drive

l tFtllJ Oj7f 11 Lf tOjsDid you go into the car and come outP .. to go look for him

IXjLiaj LKt$Ll7f419 Did you go out into the carKme confusedI LFO1$ 21L7FOjg Did you go out or notK 01Lf 7-f A Oj-Cl ... dont think I went out.

I He doesnt think he...

P Hyeong Seok youre telling stories now. Youre not telling me the truth.K No Im telling you the truth.

P No no no. Youre not. You would know if youve got In the car and went and looked for him. And Im

going to be able to tell you if you went and looked in the car because Im getting video right now fromall the street corners and the businesses to see if your car went by at that time or left your house okWe have video ok So Im gonna know if you got into that car. Did you get into your car and go look for

him

4

SEP-3-2010 1451 FROM 7013128408788 P.7

K no response

0500 0735

P Ok. Afwhat time does he come home What time does Paul come homeK I cant remember.

P What time about what time What time do you think Paul came homeK I think it was... I dont know. Around... 1P. How long after you woke up After you woke up I know he wasnt there. How much longer did it taketil he came homeK I dont know.

P Come on. Half hour 15 minutes 20 minutes hour How long were you awake waiting forhim to

come home

IDFz1AI1Al 11-fOllnU-WMO0lVim1Al tJ0t011 U011 tj --1. -a C11 g Y-7F

ej Oil 91AI0II 0I2 Mr.Koh you woke up at 130 didnt you You woke up at 130 and you thought

Paul wasnt there. But when did Paul come homeK

Icant remember.

I 01 7j ..71 71 QJ 01 0FLF2 OFx-Mj J Of L2... How can you not remember that You woke upand..

P Approximately. Approximately. Little time. Come on. How long How long We know. We know.Hyeong Seok. We know. I want you to tell me. I know. I know.

I want you to tell me.K Around 2P Around 2 oclock

K 2 oclock

P When he came in did you guys get Into an argumentK no....

P Did you argue where were you What did you say to himWhen he came In the house what did

you say to himK I didnt say anything.

P What happened What happened when he came in the house Hyeong SeokK I dont know.

P What happened Were you angry that he was out late and he came home at 2 oclock and you had

to work the next day at 930K I didnt uh... remember saying...

P Hyeong Soek you just told mePaul came home at 2 oclock.K Around yea.

P Around 2 oclock And you remember him Did he come in the front door Which door did he comein when he came into the houseK Nobody say hes coming to... front

P Did he come in the front door last nightK Yea.

P What door did he come in last night You tell me. Which doorK Front.

P He came in the front door Did he have the key Was It locked Or was it unlocked

K Yes he got the key.

P Were you waiting at the door when he came homeK no response

5

SEP-3-2010 1451 FROM 701312228408788 P.8

P Did you hear him coming homeK I cant... I cant see.

P Where were you standing when he came home last night

K I dont know.

P Were you in th kitchen Were you in the living roomWhat room were you in when Paul came

home last night

K I think I was sleeping at that time. I cant remember... 718P Hyeong Seok. We know. And now youre lying to us again.

K No... I...

P Hyeong Seok.

K Yea

P Where were you when he came into the door You were angry that he was out. You were angry.

Where was heK no response

0735 0900

P Hyeong Seok where was he When you... Whereewere you when he came into the front door Where

were you when Hyeong Seok came in the door

I $.Y- N Oil 1t$ OfXJMl7� 01 Cl 2 OigWhen Paul came home where were youP Im sorry when Paul came In the door Where were youK I think its uh... front Its uh... dining living roomP You were in the hallway. Were you by the door

IOfXjAl 7h1011 V11 Ols0CIOf jOj2. Were you at Where were youK I think Its uh... up there up .. up there...

P Ok. And what did he sayP2 dining roomK The dining room. Yea.

P Dining room You were in the dining room When he came homeK

Ithink so.

P Ok. Were you sitting down or standing upK I dont know.

P Ok. See. You dont remember. You remember now. Come on. You were angry that he was out. You

were angry that he just came home at 2 oclock and we had to work at 730. You would know where he

were because when he came in you probably told Paul Where were you You have to work

tomorrow. Did you tell Paul that when he came in What did you tell him when he came in Hyeong

Seok what did you say to himK I didnt talk to... 840P What happened then Did he walk In and say something to you What did he say to you when he

came in the door

K shrugsP What did he say Hyeong Seok Come on. What did he say to you What did Paul say

09001025K He didnt say to me... I cant remember... Honestly.

P Were you angry When he walked in the door

l 00l R--IIIJ 34V9 0j. Were you angry when he came homeP Were you angry when he came in the door Hyeong Seok

6

SEP-3-2010 1452 FROM TO13128408788 P.9

K no reponse looks at the doorP Hyeong Seok I want you to look at me. You cant look at me because when you... when you startthinking and trying to decide what youre gonna say you look away. I want you to be honest with me.

Do this for Paul Do this. Do this forPaul and tell us the truth. He walked in the door. What happenedwhen he walked in the dror Did-y-bu guys get into an argument Did gourget mad at him that he

wasnt... homeDid you guys get into an altercation Did he push you Did you push himDid he come

after you What happened You need to tell us in your words what happened. What happened when

he walked in the door Hyeong Seok What happenedP2 We think it was all just an accident. We dont think you would do something on purpose.P Tell us what happened.

K confused I cant remember that one. So I can say nothing.

P What happened then What happened Hyeong SeokK I dont know.

P. Did he come after you Did he have a knife Did he grab a knife and come after youK No.

P Did he come after you with a knife Hyeong Seok come on. He came after you with a knife didnt

he Did he come after you with a knife

10251112

I O X1MI JEi1c fag v OFziAItJHI c VOf2 Did he give you the knife Did Paul

give you the knife

P speaking at the same time Did you have the knife Did you go after him with the knife

K I dont know.P. Hyeong Seok who had the knife

K I dont know.

P Who had the knife Hyeong Seok It was either you or him. Paul had the knife or you had the knife.

Who had the knife

K I dont know.P Who had it Hyeong SeokK I cantremember-PHow did he get the knife Did you guys argue in the kitchen Did you guys argue in the kitchen Wasthere argument in the kitchen

K hits his headP2 Were you arguing about the contract

P Hyeong Seok was it arguing about the contract That he broke the contract

K No.

P Did you.. 1055 that he was out Was he doing was he smoking marijuana last night Was Paul

smoking marijuana last night Hyeong SeokK No.

P Hyeong Seok was he sitting- come on.K shakes his head I dont... I dont...

P. Did you ask him if he wasK I dont know...

P Did you ask himK No...

1112 -1247

7

SEP-3-2010 1452 FROM 7013128408788 P.10

Did 61 a4 he rmake $ Pap �I

P Come on. Were almost there. rsG�Taie S �099E0- rle VK Yea. I think so.

rj��i��P Did you ask himAnd what did he say Rid he tell you yes or noK No. no.

l �BHtl Cf� .JOjHe said he doesnt smoke cigarette

P When you asked him if he was smoking marijuana what did he tell youK No he didnt say anything...

I iay Cf_1112. That he said yesP Did you ask him that

I -2OJFOj9 Did you ask him

K I think so. I asked J tfiIF JAN Lk...Did you do it with friends again... No... I think so...

P So you asked him if he was smoking marijuana

K Yea.

PYesK I think No.

P Yes or noK No.

I101 OAEL4.i F Of JOLt1... Did you ask him or not...

P speaking simultaneously Did you -

K Yes. I asked him.

P You asked him but he said noK Yea I think so.

POk. And then what happened Did you guys get into an argument Did you -did he grab you Did you

grab himWhat happenedK WhatP Come on. Hyeong Seok You KNOW what happened. You KNOW what happened. You KNOW what

happened. You got into an altercation and that happened to your son. But I gotta know how it

happened. I gotta know did he attack you Or did you go after him in anger I dont think you would do

that In anger. I think... maybe he had a knife. Did he have a knife Did you take the knife away from himWhat happened Tell me now what happened. Hyeong Seok I know you did it.

K I did it

P I know you did. I know you did. I know you did.

K I did itI Oh myP Yes. You did it Hyeong Seok. And . know that. I need to know why you did it. Was it in defense Or

was it In... that you...

I9 R Oj2. Did you do it by self-defense

P Hyeong Seok Tell me why.K I think so yea. maybe.

I EJ Vjk IOj2. Do it by self-defenseP Hyeong Seok Tell me how it happened.

I Speaking simultaneously He said It was in defense. He said it was in defense.

P Speaking simultaneously I know you did it. You did itl

K I did itI

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SEP-3-2010 1452 FROM TO13128408788 P.11

P Yes. Didnt you

is 761 Sfo-rlk 0jR. You did It by self-defense.

P speaking simultaneously You tell me. Did you do it Hyeong SeokK I

think its...

P Did you do it

Kl think its...

P Did you do it

K Yea.

PYesK I think so.

P Why did you do itK because is uh...

P Why Tell us why you did it.K Before...

1247 1450

P Tell mewhy you did it Hyeong Seok.

K Weeks ago...

P Yea. Weeks agoK he... golf...

P He took a golf club

K that... is... swings his handsP he hit you with a golf club

KYea.

P So when he came in did you already have the knife in your hand in case he hit you Or did you go get

the knife

K No.

P How did you get the knife

K I dont know.

P Tell me how you got the knife. I mean did you go grab itK Maybe... grab It

P Who grabbed it You grabbed itK I grabbed it Or maybeP You tell me. Not maybe. Come on Hyeong Seok. Did you grab the knife Did you grab the knife

K. Maybe I didnt. 1320P Hyeong Seok. Did you grab the knife Did he come after you Was he trying to hit youI 14M-7 94... R tl Cf -1.0O1 g Did Paul say... like... he will hit youP Come on. Hyeong Seok. What happened What happened Not

Ithink. Not

Ithink. Tell us what

happened.

K Yes hes very...

P So when he came in the door did you yell at himAnd he got angry Did he come after youI0jWl 9.. iIXI z 94... Otj 01R When he came in did you scream and... scolded himK No.

I IgMt EQ.g ��7f LI7�1� To Paul Because Paul was angry...

P speaking simultaneously Hyeong Seok what happened Tell us what happenedl Tell us what

happened when he came in the door. Come on.

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SEP-3-2010 1453 FROMTO13128408788 P.12

K. Hes uh...

P He comes in the door. Youre upstairs in the living room.

K When I... I dont know... This one is... Why you Is coming late yesterday And then hes gonnabe...maybe pushing something like that... is happened...

P Did he push youK Yea I think so.

P. And where did he push you at Where were you standing when he pushed youK I said... laying down something...

P He pushed you and felt... make you fall downK Fall down. And then Im scared yea.

P Where did this happen Where did he push you when you fell down WhereK I think its chest ... got uh... yea.

P Ok. and where did you fall down Which room Which room were you in when he pushed youK no response looks confused

I 0j 1.0 2FINI QI91O1.2 Which room were you inP Which room were you In Hyeong SeokK no response

llg.15-17t OtziAl I %I12lOf 8. Paul pushed you.P Which room were you in when he pushed you Were you in the hallway Were you upstairs

K hallway I think its uh...

P speaking simultaneously Were you in the dining roomK hallway. Hallway. hallway. Dining room kind of... stuff yea.P hallway Did you have the knife on you alreadyK No.

P Where did you have the knife

K No.

P Where did you have the knife at

14501700P Where didyou-KNobody Is kitchen there...

P Did you go grab the knife from the kitchen Or did you have the knife when he came homeK No. I dont think so.

P You didnt have the knife

K No.

P When he came home Did you guys- after he pushed you downK speaking simultaneously yea I think so.

P Did you run in the kitchen

K speaking simultaneously maybe.

P Not maybe. What happened Hyeong SeokK Yes.

P What happened I think thats what happened. Did he push you down and you ran and grabbed the

knife

K 2O...Oh LordP Hyeong Seok. Tell us what happened. No more I think Just tell us how it happened so we can... be

done with Paul ok We can do this for Paul ok Maybe this was an accident. Maybe it wasnt. I dont

10

SEP-3-2010 1453 FROM TO131284087BB P.13

know. But thats what you have to tell me. YOU have to tell me. Was it an accident I know you did it. I

already know you did it. But I need to know how it happened. So tell us how it happened.K Thats why... he pushing me... and then maybe... throw this... floor...

P He threw you on the floor

K Yea.

P And which room did he throw you on the floor You would remember Hyeong Seok.

K over there. Right over there.P Right by the door Did you meet him by the doorKYea.

P Was the door open or did the door get closed

K confusedP Ok. We got it. Its ok. So he pushes you down on the ground. You fall down. What happens nextDoes- where does- Do you run to the kitchen Do you get up and run to the kitchen Or do you -

K not that time. But... Its uh... I dont know.

P Ok then what happens after he pushed you down What happened Did he jump on top of you Did

he hit youK I think so. I think so.

P Not I think so. Tell us what happened.

K nods yea.P You know what happened.

K Yea.

P Tell us what happened. He pushed you down. in your own words. Your words. He pushed you down.

Then what happenedK And then its uh... hes something... is uh.. chest push It In.

P He pushed you on your chest

K And then make her fall down. And then -A rf�ncicG c� Cey i t.1n fYla74 n /c

P Throws you downK Yea. And then... I think its uh... ��4 t/51 Tu2 St�D/foNPand then what happened

K I dont know.

P speaking simultaneously then what happenedK No thinking its uh... I dont know... grabbed the knife Or something like that

P speaking simultaneously Did you go grab the knife

K I dont know.

P speaking simultaneously or did he grab the knife

K I dont know.

P Hyeong Seok you know who grabbed the knife. Come on.

I speaking simultaneously T 7f JXJ US zjOjgWho grabbed the knife first

P You know who grabbed the knife. Did you grab it or did he grab it Did you get scared

K I didnt...

P Were you afraid that he pushed you down. So youregonna-I71 71 NI 5ia You were there right

K Yea I think so.

P And where was the knife sitting

17001825KWho-11

SEP-3-2018 1453 FROM TO13128408788 P.14

P Where was the knife Was it in the drawer In the kitchenware- in the drawer Or on top Where was

the knife sitting

I Of Of ElaOf Al jfOf2 Where was the knife In the drawer

K I think its... 7171 $1X1 VXlI It was... It was...

P In the knifeholder

I Yea.

K Yea.

P You have it outside the drawer So you just grab it How did you grab it Did you went in and grab

the knife

I speaking simultaneously pd1Q Can you hold/grab itK looking at the interpreter yea yea.is He said you can just grab it.

P Ok so you grabbed the knife And then where was Paul when you grabbed the knife Where was

Paul at Where was Paul standing Did Paul come after youK Yea. Yea. Yea.

P He came after youK Yea. Yea.

P And what did you do What did you do with the knife Did you poke Paul with it at all Did you poke

himDid you cut him What did you doK speaking simultaneously No. No. No.

P What did you doK I dont know.

P Did you poke himK Dont coming...P Dont come at meK like this way Maybe swingP You swung the wife at himWhat did he do when you swung the knife at himK I dont know.

P What did you do Hyeong Seok What did you do Come on. Youre right there. Tell us exactly what

happened. You swung the knife at him and then what happenedK no response

P What happened then You swung the knife at him. Did he come after you Did he stop or what

knock on the door

P one second. P leaves the room

1825 2010

I -10-7F 7 �I OFXJM.IjjEJf -I7II V012 Did Paul like... do that... to you like that

K. Yes So one time. With the a1... golf club

P2 poked you with a golf club

K Yea.

P comes back in the roomP Ok so. So. So. Did you poke him with a knife Did you hit himwith a chest

K no response

12

SEP-3-2010 1454 FROM TO13128408788 P.15

P Hyeong Seok come on. claps Right now. Lets be done. Hurry up. BestHow did it happen Did

you grab him and then when you... when you went him on like this did you cut his throat When you

swung the knife

KYea.

P and you cut his neck Did you then grab himHow did you cut the restof his neck Did you have himDid you get him in a headlock and go like this Yes or no

I.JOfAj Of V 71J mii j210J.Q You were holding him from the back like this

K No.

I f Pr. U 4 2H... V... a7Ci -Zt%1OJQ. 19�7f... k2 LJJJ Gj B. 1I .. When you were

fighting... why... the knife... you pulled first. Paul... he was bigger than you.

K Oh yea.

I oitJ 3.ai.... Q1 OJ VA ut 4 OJ 741 9t0JR Hes big but how did you cut the first

timeK I dont know.

P Did you cut his throat

K Maybe its uh... maybe.. this is uh...

P Not maybe. What happenedP2 Not maybeK. Maybe... grab it and maybe... used it like that.

P so you grabbed him around the chest Or around the neck How did you grab him Around the chest

K Around... neck...

P was he in front And then you went like this and cut his neck Is that what you did Did you cut his

neck

K But Im not clear that my mind...

P Hyeong Seok did you- did you- Is that what happenedK nodsP Did you cut his neck

K nodsP Ok. Did you poke him in the chest at all Did you like this for him to get awayK No... I dont know

2010 2131 endknock on the door

Unknown person This is Mr.Shim.

P You his attorney

S Yea.

P Oh come on in. Were currently being video taped. Its oh... Weve done an interview. Urn... and uh...

Mr. Seok is... Hyeong Seok is telling us what happened in the incident. Urn... Looks like there was an

altercation -

K But I cannot remember clearly.

P He just told us that he waited- His son stayed out late came home late. And um... an altercation

ensued. His son pushed him to the ground and he went Into the kitchen took a knife that was on the

side and got Into a fight. He swung the knife at him He said he grabbed his son around the back and he

cut his throat. And were just trying to find out the... other basics that incidents... of what had happened.

S I want everything stopped ok And I want to talk to him alone.

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SEP-3-2010 1454 FROM 7013128408788 P.16

P Sure. It is uh... 2 minutes to 1. Your attorneys here hes gonna talk with you. And we are going to

stop the videotape.

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2011-10-21 Koh's Mtn to Reconsider Prior Ruling on Mtn to ... · 12 came on forhearingon a MOTION...

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