150- Debunking the Myths About Gallbladder Disease with ... · in that. So, when you remove the...

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Episode150:DebunkingtheMythsAbout

GallbladderDiseasewithDeborahGraeferFromGallBladderAttack


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Child:WelcometomyMommy’spodcast.

Thispodcastisbroughttoyoubymyobuddy.Thisthingisoneofmydailygo-to’sforrelaxationbecauseitcombinesthebenefitsofinfraredheat,percussivemassageandvibrationaltherapyforwhatIcanonlydescribeasamixtureofdeeptissuemassageandmyofascialreleaseallinonedevice.IthasreallyreducedmymuscletensionandmyneedformassageandmanypeoplewithconditionslikeMS,chronicfatigue,etcareusingthisformusclerelief.Also,manyathletesuseitforfasterrecovery.Ipersonallyfindthebiggestbenefitforrelaxationandforfasciawork,butyoucantryitoutatwellnessmama.com/go/myobuddyandmakesuretochecktheshownotesforaspecialdiscount.

ThispodcastisbroughttoyoubyVivos.Thisissomethingwerecentlyinvestedinforourentirefamilyandweareabsolutelylovingitandhereiswhy.So,datashowsthatthenutritionwereceiveinuterodeterminesourpalatedevelopmentandhownarroworopenourairwayandjawstructureare.Soanarrowmouth,jawandairwayincreasethechancesofneedingbraces,ofgettingsleepapnea,breathingdifficultiesandmuchmore.Butitwasprettymuchassumedthatyourjawstructurewassetinstoneonceyouwerebornorforsureafterthefirstcoupleofyearsoflife.ButVivoshasfoundthatnotonlyisthisnottrue,buttheycreatedanon-invasive,non-surgical,easywayofwideningthemaxilla,thejawandtheairway.Soforourkids,thismeansthattheygettoavoidthebracesthatmyhusbandandIbothhadandformyhusband,thismeanshissleepapneahasdisappearedandhestoppedsnoring,whichisabonusforme.I’llbewritingmoreaboutthissoonbutyoucancheckthemout,inthemeantime,atwellnessmama.com/go/vivos

Katie:Hi,andwelcometothe"HealthyMomsPodcast."I'mKatiefromwellnessmama.com,andIamheretodaywithDeborahGraefer.ShetrainedatthePacificCollegeofOrientalMedicineandgraduatedMagnaCumLaude.Shebecameinterestedingallbladderproblemsbasedonherowndigestiveissuesfromearlychildhood.Shestartedherwebsite,gallbladderattack.com,in2001tobeabletoreachmorepeoplewithwhatshe'slearned.Andshe'snowhelpedthousandsofpeoplefromallovertheworldalleviatethesymptomsofgallbladderpain.Herpracticeisnowdevotedexclusivelytogallbladderrelateddiseases,andshespecializesinundercoveringtheunderlyingcausessuchashypothyroidism,Hashimoto's,foodintolerances,leakygut,andtoxicity.So,welcome,Deborah.Ican'twaittochataboutthis.Debbie:Yes,thankyou.Katie:Yeah.Ithinkthisissuchanimportantissue,especiallyformoms,becausewhateverthereason,thereseemstobeahigherincidenceofgallbladderproblemsaroundpregnancyandpostpartum.So,IthinkI'dlovetojuststartwiththebasics.Iknowalotofpeoplestrugglewiththis.Butlet'stalkaboutsomeofthereasonsthatsomeonemightstrugglewithagallbladderproblem.Iknowyou'vesaidthere'salotofmythssurroundingwhatwethinkweknowaboutgallbladder.So,let'sstartwithwhataretheactualproblems.Debbie:Whataretheactualproblemsorthemyths?

Katie:Let'sstartwithwhensomeoneisexperiencing,forinstance,gallbladderpainoragallbladderattack.Canyoukindawalkusthroughwhat'sactuallygoingoninthebody?


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Debbie:Sure.Well,actually,that'salittlebitdifficult.Butifitisactuallyagallbladderattack,it'susually...well,I'llrunthroughthesymptomsveryquickly.Right-sidedchestpainbelowtheribcage.Thatpaincangobackintotheshoulderbladeoranywhereintherightshoulder,actually,andrightorleftside.Butusually,themosttypicalisrightintheback,intheshoulderblade,behindthegallbladder.Youcanhavenauseaandvomiting,gas,belching,burping.ThepainisusuallyexcruciatingandcantakepeopletotheER,anditlastsatleast15minutesupto,actually,24hours.Mostcommonis15to4hours.Andit'sactuallyratherscary.So,alotofpeople,whenthey'retoldtheyshouldtakeitouttendtoagreewithitbecausetheydon'twannaexperiencethatpainagain.

Andthen,youknow,oneofthemyths,whichI'llgointorightherebecauseyouaskedmewhat'sgoingon,oneofthemostcommonthingsthathappenisthatthere'sastonestuck,astonethatistryingtotravelfromthegallbladderdownthebileducttogetoutthroughthebowel.Itcangetstuckinoneofthebileductsandthe...thattightening.TheysayinChinesemedicine,whereversomethingisstuckorstagnating,thereispain.Andthesharperthepain,themoreit'sasubstanceasopposedtotheenergythat'sstuckforexample.Andthat'scertainlythecasewithexcruciatinggallbladderpain.Now,theinterestingthingisitdoesn'talwayshavetobeastonethatcausesthat,butthat'sthemostcommonthingthat'sgoingon.Andit'sveryfrighteningforpeople.Katie:Yeah.Icanimagine.Iremember,whenIwasyoung,mydadhadhisgallbladderremoved.IthinkIwasin,maybe,injuniorhigh.AndIrememberhewasinalotofpain.Andthen,basically,thedoctorstoldhimthatthegallbladderdoesn'treallyserveapurposeinthebodyandthatitwassafertotakeitout.AndI'mcuriouswhatyourtakeisonthatbecauseI'mdefinitelyofthebeliefthateverythinginthebodyhasapurpose.Iknow...IhadmytonsilstakenoutasachildandnowI'velearnedallthesethingsthattonsilsdointhebody.So,isthattruethatthegallbladderiskindofanunneededorganorwhatdoesitdoforourbodies?Debbie:Well,Iagreewithyouthateverything'sthereforapurpose.Andwhentheysaythatit'snotreallyneeded,whatthey'resayingisyouwon'tdiewithoutitandthatyoucanstilldigestandgoonwitha"normallife."Well,Igetallthephonecallsofpeoplewhoarehavingveryabnormallivesafterwards.AndI'mnotsosurethatthesurgeonsgettohearthat,right?Theygobacktotheirdoctor,butnotbacktothesurgeon.So,Ithinkthere'salotofmisconceptionaboutthat.Butthefunctionofthegallbladderis,youknow,wethinkofitassomethingthatstoresthebile.Itactuallystoresthebile.Itconcentratesthebileanditcontrolsorregulatesthesecretionofbile.So,ifyouhavemoreconcentratedbileandthenyoueatafattymealandthegallbladdersecretesthatbileallatonceintothesmallintestinewhereyou'retryingtodigestthatfatortheprotein,thenit'sactuallyabetterqualityforthatpurposethanthebilethatcomesjustfromtheliver.Now,bile,thereasontheysayyoucantakeitoutisbecausebiledoescontinuetobemadeintheliverandflowfromtheliver,andnowitjustbypassesthegallbladderandgoesstraightdownintotheduodenum,intothesmallintestine.Butthatinitselfcancauseproblemsbecause,numberone,somepeoplehaveaproblemwherebecauseit'snotbeingstored,itdripsconstantly.Forotherpeople,itlike...they'lleatamealandthen,allofasudden,itdumps.It'scalledbiledumping.Andthatcausesthemtorushtothebathroomandthey,youknow,it'sliketheycan'teatanythingwithoutrunningtothebathroomandstayingnearabathroom.AndIgetalotofcallsonthat,sotome,it'scommon.ButIthink,acrosstheboardforeverybodywhohasitremoved,it'snotthemostcommonthing.Butitcertainlyhappensandhappensfrequentlyenoughthatit'scauseenoughtoavoidremovalifyoucanhelpit.Buttheotherthingthatisnotknown,soit'sreallynotknowneventhatmuchinthe


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medicalfield,andI'mgonnasaymorearoundnaturalpractitioners,andclearly,thephysiciansdon'tthinkit'sthatimportant.Butitalsohasaprotectioneffectonthewholebodyinthatitchangesthebile.Itaccumulatesthetoxicbile.Andthere'sabalanceofbileinthebodythatiswater-solubleandfat-soluble.Andthegallbladderplaysaroleinthat.So,whenyouremovethegallbladder,younolongerhavegallbladderbile,whichisnotonlythickerandmoreconcentrated,butit'salsomorebalancedbilewithmorewatersolubility.Andthefat-solublebileismoretoxic.So,oncethegallbladderisout,that'swhereyouendupwitharealimbalanceofbile,althoughwedohaveitwithanygallbladderproblem.So,certainly,therearetimeswhenthegallbladderjustneedstocomeoutandtimeswhenit'snotworkinganyway.Butafterwards,youhavethistoxicbilethatcausesmoreproblems.Andit'sverymuchknownthatthere'smorecasesofheartburnandGERD,andactually,what'scalledDGER.It'sliketheduodenalreflexupintothestomach,andthenfromthestomachupintotheesophagus.Andthathappensbecauseinflammationfromthatcausticbilecausessomethinginthesphincterslikeinflammationandlessabilitytocontractanddotheirjobproperly.Sothen,yougetthisbackflowofbilegoingplaceswhereitshouldn't.Katie:Igotit.Okay.So,I'mcurious.Myhusbandhadhisappendixoutseveralyearsago.Andbasically,wefoundthattheykindofdiagnosedthatbasedonsymptoms.IfyougototheERwithlowerright-sidepainandnausea,andthesymptomshehad,theyprettymuchassumedwastheappendix,andtakeitout.Andthentheycouldverifyitoncethey'reintherethattheappendixlooksinflamed.Andtheycouldcheckyourwhitebloodcellcount,butitwasn'tliketherewasablackandwhitetestifyourappendixisdefinitelyinflamed.So,I'mcurious,whensomeoneispresentingwithgallbladderproblems,isthereawaytoactuallyclinicallyknowifsomething'swrong?Andhowmightsomeoneinthatsituationknowhowbadtheirgallbladderisandifitisworkingornot?Debbie:That'sareallygoodquestionbecause,inaway,theanswerisno.Certainly,there'salotoftestingyoucando,butnoteverythingcanbeseen.So,theycantellfromanultrasound,forexample,ifthere'sgallstones.Thatdoesn'tmeanthegallbladderisbad.AndinChina,theydoalotofotherthingsotherthanjustgallbladderremoval.Theydothingstoremovethestonesandtheydothingstodissolvethestones,andthat'sjustnotdonehere.It'sjust,youknow,theyassumethatonceyou'vehadgallstones,you'llalwayshavegallstones.They'llkeepcomingback.Butthey'realsoassumingthatnobodyiswillingtoworkwiththeirdietandmakeanylifestylechanges.Andcertainly,I'vehadpatientslikethat.It'slikejust,youknow,"IfIcan'teatmyhamburgersandwhatever,justtakeitout."Andtheydon'twannadowhat'snecessary.Butyouknow,forexample,withanultrasound,theycanseewhetherthere'safluidsurroundingthegallbladder,whichcouldtellthemthattherecouldbesomeinfectiongoingon.Andtheycanseewhetherthere'sinflammation.Butthere's...whatIhearisoncethey'vehaditremoved,theysay,"Oh,yeah.Theyfoundoutthatitwasactuallyinfectedandpusy.Anditcouldbetotallynecrotic,like,it'sjustdeadtissue."Andthoseneedtocomeout,buttheycan'talwaystell.Unlessyou'reactivelyintheinfectionstageandshowingwhitebloodcellsinthelabwork,theycan'ttell.

Katie:Soisitpossiblethenforsomeonetohavegallbladderstonesandnothavesymptoms?Canthoseexistinagallbladderthat'sotherwisefunctioning?Debbie:Oh,totally.Manypeoplegothroughlife.It'smorecommontohaveasymptomaticgallstonesthantohavethembesymptomatic.


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Katie:Okay.So,justanultrasoundthatshowedgallstones,likeifsomeonewaspresentingsymptoms,thatwouldn'tnecessarilybeareasontogetyourgallbladderremovedifyou'rewillingtomakethedietarychangesbasically?Debbie:No,itwouldn't.Right.Andtheotherthingsis,too,thatsometimespeoplewillgoinwithexcruciatingpain,becausethiswasyourquestionis,"Howdoyouknowclearlywiththeamountofpainthatsomeonecangetintowithastonetryingtopassthroughthebileduct?"Itisjustsopainfulthatthey'regoingtothinkthatthisisjustveryserious.Imean,it'snotthatitcan'tbebecausethebilecanbackupandsoon.Butintermsofthegallbladderbeingdiseaseditself,that'snotnecessarilythecase.Katie:Okay.So,I'dlovetogoalittledeeperonwhatactuallycreatestheseproblemsinthefirstplacebecauseIknowfromwhatlittleIrememberwhenmydadwentthroughit,theyprettymuchsaidlike,"It'sfatinyourdietthatcausesgallbladderproblemsanditcan'tbefixed.Andyoujusthavetohaveitremoved."AndI'mguessingyouhaveabetteranswerthanthat.So,I'mcurious,whataresomeofthethingsthatcausegallbladderproblemsinthebodytobeginwith?Debbie:Well,that'sveryinterestingbecausestill,tothisday,theytalkaboutthefourFs,whichisfatwhichcausesgallbladderproblems,beingfemale,beingover40,andbeingfertile.So,womenwho'vehadmorechildren,becauseofthehormonesatplay,aremoresusceptible.ButIhavealistonmywebsiteofmorethan30differentcauses.Lowthyroid,forexample,orHashimoto's,bothofthosecancontributetoaslowerfunctioninggallbladder,andthenthebilecanstagnateandform,youknow,becomesludgy,thickandsludgy,andthenformstones.There'sresearchtothateffectthatlowthyroidcanendupingallstonesandalow-functiongallbladder.So,it'snotalwaysjustgallstones.Itcanbelowfunctioningaswell.Evenlowstomachacid,whichreallymeansthat...lookhowmanyprotonpumpinhibitorsorantacidsarebeingusedtoday.Andthegallbladderactuallyreliesontheacid.It'soneofthethingsthatcontributestogallbladderfunctionisthehydrochloricacidinthesystem.So,whenwe'restoppingthatortakingantacidstostoptheacid,thenwe'rereallyjustaskingformoreproblemswithourgallbladder.Foodsensitivitiesisabigone,youknow?Likeglutenanddairy,thesethings...Ihadawomancallmeonetimeandaskme,"Look,Idon'tunderstandwhyIhavegallbladderproblemsbecauseIeatsohealthy.Weliveonafarm.Weeatvegan.Everything'sorganic."So,youknow,alotofthesedifferentcallsI'vehadovertheyearshaveledmetodeeperresearch,evensomeofit,whichwasyearsoldandstillapplicablesuchasfoodallergies.So,whathappensiseventhoughyoumaybeeating"healthyfood,"itmaynotbehealthyforagallbladder.Therearedifferent...forexample,eggsarenumberone.95%ofgallbladderpeoplewhoeateggswillhaveareactiontothem,whetheritputsthemintoanattackorjustmakesthemfeelbloatedorwhatever.But95%ofpeoplewithgallbladderissueswillreacttoeggs.Andeggsareknowntobehealthyapartfromthecholesterol,right?Butit'snotevennecessarilythecholesterolthatcouldbeanallergentotheeggprotein.So,youknow,low-fatyogurtpeoplethinkis...it'slike,"Okay.Icaneatthat."EventhoughItellpeoplegetoffdairy,they'llsay,"Well,butI'meatinglow-fatornonfatyogurt."Well,ifyouhaveareactiontodairyandyou'renotreallyawareofit,thenthatcausesinflammation.Anythingthatyou'reeatingthatyourbodyreactstowillcauseinflammationandinflammationcontributestotheproblem.Katie:Thatissofascinating.Debbie:Yeah.So,glutenintolerance,forsure.Youknow,glutenisabigoneandit'snot...Imean,I'msure


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you'vedoneatopiconthat.It'ssobigandalotofpeoplethinkit'soverdone.ButIcantellyoufromexperiencethatitreallycontributesalottodigestiveissues,includingthegallbladder.It'snotjusttheleakygut,forexample.Katie:Yeah.I'mwithyouonthatone.I'mfondofsayingthatglutenisnotafoodgroupandneitherisdairyinasense,thatyoucangetallthesamenutrientsfromotherfoods.So,Ithinkthat'sagoodpoint.AndIseethataswell,notfromthegallbladderside,butjustfromthemomsofkidswithfoodintolerance,thatglutenanddairybothstillseemtobeontherise,atleastwithI'veseen.AndIfeellikeyoujustconnectedatonofdotsformebecauseI'vealwaysheardthatgallbladderproblemsareworsearoundpregnancyandpostpartum.AndwhenyousaidthataboutHCLandhormones,thateverythingfallsintoplace.BecauseIknowfrombeingadoulaandworkingwithmidwives,youhavealittlebitdecreasedstomachacidproductionalreadywhenyou'repregnant.Andthensomanywomentakeantacidsiftheygetheartburnwhenthey'repregnant.Andthenyoualreadygotthehormonesgoingon.So,thatmakesperfectsensethatyoucouldhaveanincreasedchanceofagallbladderproblem.Thatmakesperfectsense.Debbie:Well,IactuallyhaveakitthatImade.It'scalledthe"GallbladderPregnancyKit,"whichincludeshydrochloricacid.So,it'sbasicallyasupportfordigestionandbilesalts,whichwillhelp...andbeets.Andthosetwothingswillhelptokeepthebilethinandmoving.Butatthesametime,I'vejustaddedsometaurinetomybilesaltsbecausetaurinehelpstochangethetoxicityofthebile.So,keepingthebilethinandflowingandtryingtokeepitmorewater-solublethan...fat-solublebile,theyalsocallitlithogenicorstone-formingbile.So,youwannaleantowardsthesideofmorewater-solublebile.Andduringpregnancy,that'soneofthetimesthatyoucangetintotroubleandgetastasisofbile.So,doingwhateveryoucan.Andexercise,ofcourse,keepsbilemoving,too,so...anditcanbedifficultinpregnancytogetenoughexerciseunlessyouhaveotheronesyou'rerunningafter.Katie:Right.Thatmakesperfectsense.So,I'mcurious.So,yousaidpeoplecanhaveasymptomaticgallstonesandbefine,andthatpeoplecanhaveeven...havehadgallbladderattacksanditcouldbecausedbyanintoleranceorhormonesorotherfactorsofthyroiddisease.So,I'mcurious,canpeoplerecoverfromthis?Like,ifsomeone'sgottentothatpointwheretheydefinitelyhavesomethinggoingoninthegallbladderandthey'rewillingtoaddressitwithdiet,areyouseeingpeoplewhocanrecoverfromthat?Debbie:Oh,yes.Many.Thousands.Yes.Katie:That'samazing.So,kindofwalkusthroughthesystem.Iknowthere'sdifferentlevelsofseverity.AndIwannatalkaboutavoidinggallbladderproblemsaswellbecauseIthinkthat'ssomethingthatallofuscouldfocuson.Butifsomeoneishavinggallbladderattacks,orevenjustishavingthatpainandthosesymptomsandsuspectstheymighthavealower-functioninggallbladder,whatkindofthingsdoyoutakethemthrough?Youmentionedgallbladderflushesandthingsthattheydoinothercountries.So,wheredoyoustartwiththem?Debbie:Actually,flushesaredonehere,too.It'snotsomuchflushestheydoinothercountries,butthey...Imean,medically,theyactuallygiveherbstodissolvegallstonesandtheydosurgerytoremovethegallstonesthroughthegallbladder,fromthegallbladderitself.Andthen,iftheyaddacupuncturetothatandtheyaddherbologytothat,thentheygetevenbetterresults.So,there'sresearchdoneonthatinothercountries.Inthiscountry,wetendtojustoptforthesimplestthing,let'sjusttakeitout.So,whatelsewereyouaskingme?


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Katie:Justkindoflikewhat'stheprocess?So,obviously,you'retryingtoidentifyfoodintolerances,seeifthere'sanunderlyingthyroidthing.Butespeciallyforsomeonewho'smaybeinthatacutephase,whoishavingthatpainandisprettyscared,whataresomethings...obviously,I'mgonnalinktoyourwebsiteintheshownotesbecauseIknowthat'sascarysituation.So,anyonewhoistherecanfindyou,butjustkindofwalkusthroughyourprocess.Debbie:Well,thereareseveralthingsthatyoucandotogetoutofpainrightaway.Andpeoplewhosubscribetomynewsletter,oneofthefirstthingsthey'llgetisanewsletterthatsays,"HowtoGetOutofPainNow."Andthere'slikeaposition,for...thefirstthingyouwannadoisgetoutofpain.Yes,youhavetoaddressit.Yes,youhaveto...there'sseveralthingsthatneedtobedone.Like,youneedtoseeadoctor,findoutwhat'sgoingon,andgetadiagnosis.Findoutisitstonesorisitnotbecausealow-functioninggallbladderwiththebiletryingtogetout,butit'snot...thegallbladderisnotpushingitout,thatcancauseasmuchpainasagallbladderattackitself.Itcanfeelthesame.Andlikewise,there'saconditioncalled"SphincterofOddiDysfunction."Andthathappensmorefrequentlyafterthegallbladderhasbeenremovedandthesphincterthatisnotworkingproperlyorgetsstuckandspasmsoristooloose,it'snotworkingproperly,thatcanactuallycausetheexactsamesymptomsasagallbladderattack,thatexcruciatingpainintheupperrightquadrant.Anditcanhappenwithorwithoutagallbladder.So,thesethingsdohappen.So,findingoutwhat'sgoingonisthefirstthing.Knowingthatwhenyougoin,usually,whatthey'lldoifyougoininanacutegallbladderattack,theyusuallyjustfindoutwhat'sgoingon,andthentheywilltellyou,usually,tocomebacklater,right?They'llgiveyoupainmeds.They'llhelpyouthroughit.Tellyoutogohomeandthey'llscheduleyou...tellyoutogoseeyourdoctorandwillscheduleyoudowntheroadforsurgery.Unlesstheyseesomethingelseseveregoingon,theydon'tusuallytakeitoutrightaway.Andthereasonforthatisbecausesolongasthere'sinflammationgoingon,there'smuchmorechanceofmakingamistakeduringthesurgery.Becauseallofthoseductsthatcrisscrosseachothercan...youcanmissthewrongduct.Ithappens.So,Ithinkthat'sreallyimportantforpeopletoknow,thatiftheygointotheemergencyroomforsurgery,unlessthedoctorhasareallygoodreasonwhyitcan'twaituntilnextweek,thatyoushouldjustgetpainmedsandgohomeandletitsettledown,andthenscheduleforlater.It'sduringthattimethatItendtogetthemostcalls,andpeoplewannaknowwhattheycando.So,thatemailthatgivesyouapositionforgettingon,sortof,onall-fours,it'skindofachild'sposeinyogabutyourchestisonthemattressoronthefloorandyourbuttisupintheair,andthatcausesthegallbladdertofallforward,releasingthepressurethat'spushingonthenervesbehind.Andthatcanworkinseconds.Thatdoesn'ttakeawaytheissue.Itdoesn'tmovethestone...Imean,itcanactuallymovethestoneifthestoneissomewherethatitcanfallbackintothegallbladder.It'snottheend.Butthenthere'sthingslikeflaxseedtea,whichisarecipeIgotfromaSufiSheikhinJerusalem.Andthatcanreallyhelptostopthepainrightaway.Oneoftheproblemswiththat...Ihadafriendcallmeonceandsaid,"IwashavinggallbladdersymptomsandItookyourflaxseedtea.Andnow,whywouldIdoanythingelse?I'mfine."Andthat'sreallythedangerbecauseyou'renotoutofthewoodsjustbecausethepainhasstopped.Andsoinaway,it'sdoingadisservicetopeoplebecauseyouwant...Ithinkthatoneofthebestthingsaboutthepainisthefactthatitmotivatespeopletomakethesechanges,tochangetheirdiet,tolookatwhat'sgoingon,toactuallygetadiagnosis,andcleanuptheirdietsandcleanupwhateverthey'redoingifthey'resmokingorthey'renotexercisingbecausebeingsedentaryisarealissue.Itcausesgallbladderproblems.So,Ithinkthat'skindofthethingtodo.AndIdon'trecommendagallbladderflushwhensomeoneisinpainlikethat,right?Therearealotofpeoplewhodothem.Theywanttodothemandthat'sfine.Idon'tdiscourage


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peoplefromdoingthem.Unlesssomeonecallsandisreallynervousaboutit,andIdiscourageit.Isaid,"Look,don'tdoit."Becausethatpersonisgoingtobealotmorenervous.Andwhenthey'renervous,thenthey'regoingtohaveaconstrictionofmuscleandofbileducts.Andthey'retheonesthataremorelikelytoactuallyhaveproblems.So,flushesareokay.Iprefertohavepeopleworkonothermethodslikeusingcastoroilpacks,forexample,toreducetheinflammation,andtakingproductsupplementsthatcanhelptolowertheinflammation,thatcanhelptoincreasethefunctioning.Forexample,ifyou'retakinghydrochloricacid,thatcanhelpwiththefunctioningofthegallbladderandthinningthebileanddissolvingstones.Youknow,thesekindsofthingscanbedoneandshouldbedone,Ithink,beforedoingaflush.Doingpreparationbeforeaflushisreallyimportant.Katie:Okay.Gotit.So,there'satimeandaplacefortheflush.Thatwasgonnabemynextquestion.Iknowthesehavegottenmorepopularlately,thewholeliver-gallbladderflushidea.Andsothere'satimeandaplace,butyouwouldsaynotduringtheacutephaseofanattackandonlyifaperson'spreparedforitbasically?Debbie:Yeah.Yes,exactly.Katie:Okay.Awesome.So,ifsomeoneiswillingtoaddressit,like,allthesethingsthatyou'vejustmentionedandthey'reworkingwithyou,howlongmightittakeforsomeonetostartfeelingbetterandthenactuallytostartrecovering?Debbie:Well,wegetresultsfrompeoplewhotakethe30-daygallbladdersolution,whichisworkingwithboththedietandtakingsupplementsthathelptothinthebileandgetyououtofpainmorequickly.Peoplecangetresultswiththatwithinadayortwo.Andthat'sallthatIthinktheyneed,istheyneedtobeabletoseethattheycangetoutofthatexcruciatingpain,andthentheycanmakeadecisionofwhethertheywanttoseewhatcanhappenoverthenextmonth.Itdependsontheproblembut,youknow,monthtosixmonths,andseeiftheycangetcontrolofit.Becausetheworsepartofagallbladderattackisthefearofanotherattack.So,oncepeoplehavehadthatexperienceofbeingabletogetoutofthatpainandtocalmeverythingdown,thentheycanmakeacleardecision,"DoIwannaremovethis?IsthereareasonwhyIshouldremovethis?What'sreallygoingonunderneaththere?OrshallIjusttakemytimeandtrychangingmylifestyleandseehowthatworks?"Katie:Thatmakessense.AndI'llmakesurewelinktoyourwebsitesopeoplecanfindthatifthey'reconcerned.Ithinkthat'sareallygoodsolution.AndIlovethatyoumentionedcastoroilpacks.BecauseI'veneverhadgallbladdertrouble,butthat'ssomethingIresearchedmywayinto,justindifferenthealthtreatmentsthatI'vetried.AndIthinkthat'sanamazingtreatment.I'malsocurious,doyoueverdoanythingwithenemasorcolonicsoranythingthatwouldmovethingsaroundoristhatcontraindicatedwithgallbladder?Debbie:No,notatall.Coffeeenemasarereallyterrific.Theycanhelptoflushthebilereallywell.Coffeeenemasareknownforincreasingglutathionefromtheliver,thesecretionofglutathione,andwithinthebowelcanbe600%to700%more.So,it'sagreatthingforcleansingandjustfordetoxifying.Butatthesametime,ithelpstomovethebileandto...Irecommendaftergallbladderremovalthatpeopledoaseriesof21daysofcoffeeenemasbecauseithelpstoflushthebileductsfromtheliver.Butcertainly,youdon'thavetowaittohaveyourgallbladderouttodocoffeeenemas.They'reveryhelpfulwhenyouhavegallbladder


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problemsaswell.Katie:Okay.Iknewthattheyweregoodfortheliverbecausethat'skindofthecommonknowledge,butthat'sgreattoknowthattheycanbehelpfulforthegallbladderaswell.Andpeoplecandothemdailyifthey'reinthatacutephaseandthey'retryingtoreallyimprovethings?Debbie:Yes.Theycandothemasoftenastheylike.

Thispodcastisbroughttoyoubymyobuddy.Thisthingisoneofmydailygo-to’sforrelaxationbecauseitcombinesthebenefitsofinfraredheat,percussivemassageandvibrationaltherapyforwhatIcanonlydescribeasamixtureofdeeptissuemassageandmyofascialreleaseallinonedevice.IthasreallyreducedmymuscletensionandmyneedformassageandmanypeoplewithconditionslikeMS,chronicfatigue,etcareusingthisformusclerelief.Also,manyathletesuseitforfasterrecovery.Ipersonallyfindthebiggestbenefitforrelaxationandforfasciawork,butyoucantryitoutatwellnessmama.com/go/myobuddyandmakesuretochecktheshownotesforaspecialdiscount.

ThispodcastisbroughttoyoubyVivos.Thisissomethingwerecentlyinvestedinforourentirefamilyandweareabsolutelylovingitandhereiswhy.So,datashowsthatthenutritionwereceiveinuterodeterminesourpalatedevelopmentandhownarroworopenourairwayandjawstructureare.Soanarrowmouth,jawandairwayincreasethechancesofneedingbraces,ofgettingsleepapnea,breathingdifficultiesandmuchmore.Butitwasprettymuchassumedthatyourjawstructurewassetinstoneonceyouwerebornorforsureafterthefirstcoupleofyearsoflife.ButVivoshasfoundthatnotonlyisthisnottrue,buttheycreatedanon-invasive,non-surgical,easywayofwideningthemaxilla,thejawandtheairway.Soforourkids,thismeansthattheygettoavoidthebracesthatmyhusbandandIbothhadandformyhusband,thismeanshissleepapneahasdisappearedandhestoppedsnoring,whichisabonusforme.I’llbewritingmoreaboutthissoonbutyoucancheckthemout,inthemeantime,atwellnessmama.com/go/vivos

Katie:Verycool.So,Iknowthere'sgonnaalsobealotofquestionsfrompeoplewhohavealreadyhadtheirgallbladdersremoved.AndIknowyoumentionedthatIknowpeoplewhohavedigestiveproblemsorreallyseverediarrheaafteragallbladderremoval.So,obviously,forthosepeople,theycan'tdothethingstoavoidhavingitremoved.Butaretherethingstheycanstilldotohelptheirdigestionandimprovethingsevenatthatpoint?Debbie:Yes,definitely.Thereareafewpeoplethathavereallysevereissuesafterwards.Andthat'sanothertopicthatweprobablydon'tneedtogointohere,justtoknowthattherearethingstobedoneforthat.Thereishelp.Butforthemilderproblemssuchas,youknow,milderpainandgasandbloating,andburpingandbelching,andfeelingsoffullness,andheartburn...heartburnnearlyalwaysgetsworseaftergallbladderremoval.Constipationcangetworse.Bilerefluxanddiarrhea,andevenweightgaincanhappen.Youknow,thesethingsafterwards.Butit'sreallyaboutsupportingfatdigestionbecausewhenyoutakethegallbladderout,aswesaid,you'reremovingtheorganthatconcentratesthebileandhelpswiththatdigestion,andallofasudden,it'sgone.So,asopposedtothinking,"Okay,mygallbladderisgone.Idon'tneedtodoanything.I'mfinenow,"really,youneedtodomorebecausethequalityofbileisdifferent.So,supportingdigestion,takingthingslikecholineandbilesaltscanhelpwithgasandbloating,andalsojusttometabolizethefatsingeneral.Youwanttobesurethatyou'reextracting,forexample,fat-solublevitaminsfromyourfood,sotakingbilesaltsprettymuchallthetime.AndwhenIsay,"prettymuch,"Ilikeeverybodyto


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takeabreakfromeverythingatleastonceinawhile.Butbilesaltsaresomethingthatshouldbeconsideredaftergallbladderremovalonanongoingbasis.Theexception,ofcourse,wouldbepeoplewhoendupwiththebiledumpingsyndromebecausetheyalreadyhaveenoughbilegoing.Butinterestinglyenough,oneofthethingstheytry,physicianstrywiththat,istoalternategivingbileacidsandthengivingabilesequestrant,somethingthatactuallysoaksupthebile.So,theydothateverysixhours.Theyalternate.Ifthere'ssomethingabout...thebileisalwayscirculating.Itdoesn'talljustgooutthebowel.Someofitis...mostofit,95%isre-circulatedthroughtheliver.So,ifyoucanaddsomethingdifferentintoittochangethatbilesaltpoolandreducethetoxicityandhelpwithwatersolubilityandsoon,youcanchangetheinflammationthat'sgoingonand,hopefully,someofyoursymptoms.Katie:Gotit.Okay.So,Ilovethatyousaidthataboutnevertakinganythingallthetime.IgottointerviewsomereallyawesomebiologicaldoctorsinSwitzerlandlastyear.Andthatwassomethingthatsurprisedme,thattheysaidwasyoushouldnevertakeanythingallthetimeandtheydon'ttakesupplementsontheweekends,forinstance,justtogivetheirbodyatime.Becausethey'relike,"Thenyourbodydoesn'tremembertomakethingsontheirown."Justthevarietyisgood.So,Ilovethatyousaidthat,too.I'dlovetonowdelveintohowcanallofussupportnormalgallbladderfunctioninoureverydaylives.Iknowalotthewomenlisteningareinthatphaseoflifewherethey'rehavingbabies,andthey'repregnantorpostpartum.Andso,obviously,thisissomethingthatcouldaffectalotofthepeoplelistening.Andofcourse,I'llencouragethemtogotoyourwebsiteandtofollowyourdietplan.Butcanyoukindofwalkusthroughjustsomeofthewaysthatwecanmakesurewe'retryingtosupportourgallbladdersinoureverydaylives?Debbie:Indeed.Fat,ofcourse,isabigpartofgallbladder.So,eatingfriedfoodsandeatingtransfats,badfats,whichI'msureyou'vetalkedaboutonyoursitebefore,they'revery,basically,inflammatoryfoods.There'saninflammatorycomponenttogallbladderdiseasewhetherornotyouhavewhat'scalled,technically,gallbladderinflammation.Therecanbeinflammationwithinthebileducts,withinthesphincters,apartfromthegallbladderwalls.Andthatinflammationisnotjustsomethingthathappensonitsown.Itcomesfromthingsthatwe'redoing.Andagain,Imentionedhealthyfoodscanbehealthy.Butiftheygiveyouareaction,thenthey'renot.Andyouhavetopayattentiontothat,right?Ifyouhavediscomfortinyourstomach,notnecessarilyyourgallbladder,ifyouhavediscomfortanywhere,ifyougetdrippingdownthebackofyourthroatafteryoueatsomething,thatfoodiscausinganinflammationwithinyoursystem,notjustwithinthethroat.Itwillgototheintestinaltractevenifyoudon'tfeelitanditcangotothebrain,whichcausesthingslikefoggybrainandneurodegeneration,etc.It'salsoaffectingthegallbladderandthebileductsbecauseinflammationgoeseverywhereSo,avoidinginflammatoryfoods,whicharethingslikesugarandprocessedfoodsandthebadfats,andagain,thingsthatyouspecificallyhaveaproblemwith,willhelpwithreducinginflammationinthesystem.Sedentarylifestylecausesinflammationeverywhereanditdefinitelyisconnectedwithgallbladderdisease.So,keepingyourselfmoving.Depressionandconstipation,bothofthosethingsarecausesorcontributorstogallbladderdisease.Somakingsurethatyou'redoingtherightthings,whichisusuallygettingenoughfiberorgettingenoughexercise,enoughwater,enoughfluids,itcouldbeprobiotics,whateveritis,it's...Ipersonallystartwithconstipationforpeoplethathave...alwaysistogivethemhydrochloricacid.Andifthat'snotenough,Igivethembilesalts.Andthat'susuallyenoughtomovethebile.Imean,sorry,thebowel.Well,itmovesthebileandthebilemovesthebowel.It'soneofthepurposesofbile,istocauseperistalsisinthecolon.Katie:Thatmakessense,whatyou'resaying.So,I'vecheckedoutyourwebsiteandIknowitseemslikethere'sdefinitelyalotofthingsyou'dwanttoavoidifyou'reintheacutephase.Butthenthere'salsoatonofthings


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youcaneatthataregreatforyou.So,forsomeonewho'snotintheacutephase,woulditbeadvisablesometimesjusttocyclethosefoodsandgooffofthemsometimes,justtokindofgivethedigestivesystemabreak?Wouldyourecommendthatforsomeonewho'snotevenhavinganysymptomsofgallbladderpain?Debbie:Yes.Iwannasaysomethingaboutthosefoods,okay?So,Ihavefoodstoavoidandeverythingthat'sthere,Ihavebeenresearchingforyearsandplayingwith,andwhatever.Butit'snotnecessarilythecaseforeveryperson,okay?So,eventhoughfriedfoodsarenotgoodforanybody'sgallbladder,evenifit'shealthy,onions,forexample,couldcauseaproblemtooneperson'sgallbladderandnotanother.Thereasonthatthey'reonhereisbecausepeoplewhoaresearchingonthesiteareinacutepainusually.AndIwanttogetthemoutofpain.Andsoeverythingislisted.Andthat'stheplacetostart.AndI'vehadmanypeoplecallandsay,"Oh,myGod.Everyoneofthosefoodsyou'vegotlistedreallygivesmeproblemswithmygallbladder."So,forexample,evencabbageandcauliflower,thosecruciferousvegetablesarereallygoodforthegallbladderorforthebileinthattheyhelptodetoxifytheliver.Butwhenyou'reinanacutestage,itcanmakethingsworse.Andgarlicisoneofthoseaswell.Itcontainssulfurandthathelpswithliverdetoxification.Andyouknow,andanyproblemsthatI'veeverhadwithgallbladder,I'veneverfoundthatIhadtostopeatinggarlic.Andyet,mostpeoplewillsay,"Oh,myGod.Garlicjustcausedanattack."So,it'simportanttoknowthat,youknow,youhavetoplaywiththeseyourselfandfindoutwhatthatis.Butingeneral,followingfreshfruitsandvegetablesandveryleanmeatsorfishisagoodplacetogo.Anddetoxingtheliver,whichyoucando,justbyeatingalotoffreshfruitsandvegetablesandavoidingmeatsforawhile,thosekindsofthingsarereallygoodfortheconditionofthebile,andtherefore,thegallbladder.Andoneofthethingspeoplewilldoistheymakethemistakeofthinkingifsomethingisgoodforagallbladder,itdoesn'tapplytothemanymoreiftheydon'thaveone.AndwhatIwouldliketoseeisthat,intheirminds,wejustreplacetheword"gallbladder"withbilebecauseanythingthat'sgoodforthegallbladderisgoodforthebile.Andthey'resorelated.It'slikethebiliarytree.Andevenifthegallbladderistakenout,whatwouldhavebeengoodforagallbladderisgoodforthebile,isgoodfortheliver.

Andsoeatinghealthy...youknow,andhealthyfood,it'samazing.Peoplecallmeandsay,"Oh,yes.Ieatreallyhealthy."Andthentheygivemealistofwhatthey'reeating.Andyouknow,itmightbegoodfood,forexample,chicken,right?Theythinkthey'reeatingleanmeat,butagoodpercentageofgallbladderattackscanbecausedbyturkeyandchicken.AndinChinesemedicine,wesaythatchickenisjusttoohotforthegallbladderandturkeyisevenworse,right?Eventhoughitmaybealeanmeatandhealthierthanredmeat,itdependsontheperson.Katie:Ithinkthat'ssomanyaspectsofhealth,like,there'ssuchapersonalizeandvariedaspecttoit.So,Ilovethatyoukindofgivepeoplethetoolstofigureoutwhattheirtriggersare.AndIalsolovethatyougivealotofhopeinthatthesearethingsyouwouldavoidforatime.Andifyouhaveanongoingproblem,youmightavoidthemforlonger.Butit'snotlike,otherthanthebigtriggers,anabsolutelike,"Youcannevereatthesethingsagain."It'sjustotherthanfriedfoodsandprobably,Iwouldguessglutenandthingslikethat.ButIthinkthat'sareallygoodbalancedapproach.AndIthinkmostexpertswouldagree,Iseemtohearthisoverandoveronthepodcast,isthatweneedtobeeatingmorefreshvegetablesandthatweneedfiberbutweneedfiberfromvegetables.AndsoIthinkthat'ssuchanimportantmessageinandofitself.AndIlovethatyouaresayingthataswell.Debbie:Yes,Iamsayingthatforsure.AndIthinkpeopledoreallywellfollowingadietlikethis.Andasyou


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say,theydon'thavetobeeatingthatwayallthetime.There'shopeforeverybodytobeabletoeatanything.Forexample,wecometoThanksgivingandChristmas,andcertainly,thisistheworstholidayforagallbladderbecausethere'ssomany...actually,it'sbadholidayforanydigestivesystembecauseeveryoneovereatsandtheyovereatthewrongfoods,thesweets,theprocessedfoods,etc.Andovereatingisoneoftheworstthingsonagallbladder,regardlessofwhatkindoffooditis.Katie:Yeah.That'sthebeautyofthevegetablesiswiththefiber,fruits,andvegetables,butespeciallyvegetables,theyhavethatbuilt-inmechanismwhereourbodytellsus,"Okay.You'vehadenough."Idon'tknowmanypeoplewhohaveactuallyovereatenonsalad.Debbie:That'strue.So,Itellpeopletogoprepare.Youknow,it'slike...asthey'restartinginwiththesefoods,theyhaveproductsthey'velearnedfrommethatthey'vetakenfromthesitethattheyknowcanhelp.Andeverybodyendsupwiththeirfavorite.Butbitters,forexample,isreallyhelpful,takingbeforeandafterameal,bitterherbs,andthatjustgetsdigestiongoingandhelpsthebiletoflow.Anditcanalsohelpwithsugarcravings.So,themorepeopleareonmysiteandgettingmynewsletters,theylearntoworkwiththesethings.Andthentheybegintounderstandthatifthey'regoingintoastressfultime,whetherit'sstressfulfood-wisebecauseit'stheholidays,andwillbe,youknow,stressfulontheirdigestivesystem,orwhetherit'sgoingtostaywithin-laws,orfinancialproblems,oranewjob,isunderstandingthatstressisahugecomponenttoalldigestiveproblemsandgallbladderparticularly.Andthentheyneedtolearnthatiftheycan'tcontrolthestress,thentheyhavetocontroltheirdietmore.Andtheyhavetotakemoreproducts.Theylearnwhatworksforthem,butit'snotjustcrossingyourfingersanddivinginandhopingeverything'sgonnabefine.It'syouhavetouseyourbrainandthinkclearlyandmakesomechoicesthatwillhelpyoutogetthroughthesethings.Katie:Yeah.Absolutely.AndIlovethatyou'retalkingaboutthethyroidconnection,too.BecauseI'vehadadiagnosedthyroiddiseasefor,Iguessfourorfiveyearsnow,andnoone'severmentionedthat.You'rethefirstpersonI'veever...hearmadethatconnection.AndI'vepersonallytalkedtoseveralpeoplewhohavehadreallyseveregallbladderpainandwhohaveworkedwithyou,andyourstuffwasthefirstthingthateverhelpedthem.So,Ijustwannathankyoufortheworkyou'redoingbecauseIthinkyou'rehelpingsomanypeople.Andofcourse,thelinkstoyourwebsitewillbeintheshownotes.AndIknowyouhave,evenaphonenumberonyoursite.Ifsomeone'shavinganacuteattack,theycancallandscheduleaconsultwithyou.So,justthankyouforalltheworkyou'redoing.Debbie:Well,thankyou.It'sreallynicetobeappreciatedwhenyou'respendingallyourtimedoingit.Katie:Absolutely.Well,Ihopethat...andIknowthatyou'llbearesourceforalotofpeople.Again,thoselinkswillbeintheshownotesatwellnessmama.fm,soyouguyscanfindthemifyou'relistening,oryourwebsiteisgallbladderattack.comifyouwannafinditdirectly.Butwhatkindof...Ialwaysliketoaskattheend,whatbabystepswouldyougivesomeoneifyoucouldjust...itseemslikealotofinformation.Ifsomeonejustwantstosupporttheirgallbladder,whatwouldbethefirstfewjustmostimportantbabystepsthatyou'dencouragethemtostartwith?Debbie:Well,whenyousaybabysteps,oneofthemostdifficultthingsforpeopletodoistochangetheirdiet.So,arealbabystepwouldbetostartsomethinglikethebitters.Imean,that'sverybaby.It'soneproduct.It'sherbaldigestedbitters.Ialsocallitgallbladderbitters.Startingwiththatcanmakeadifference.Andthentakingsmallstepswithyourdiet,addinginmorevegetablesandsoon.Honestly,Ithinkoneofthebestthingsaboutgallbladderattack,andIsometimescallitthegiftofgallbladderdisease,isthatyou'remuchmore


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motivatedtomakebiggerchangesfasterwhenyouarehitwiththatpain.So,yes,there'sbabystepsyoucando,butthey'rekindofhard.It'skindoflikeNewYear'sresolutions.Peopledon'toftenstickwiththemverylong.Whenyouhavethatpain,you'remuchmoremotivatedtodoit.Andit'smucheasier,actually,todoitallatoncethantodoonething,andthenasecondthing,andathirdthingbecausebythetimeyoustartthesecondthing,you'vedroppedthefirstthing.That'smyexperiencewithpeople,withmyselfaswell.Katie:Yeah.I'veseenittoo,andI'vedoneittoo.So,Ithinkyou'resoright.Andagain,Ihopethateverybodywillbookmarkyoursiteandsubscribetoyournewsletter.Hopefully,theycanheedyouradviceearlyandnothavetoevergothroughgallbladderattacks.Butifanybody'sthereorworriedaboutbeinginthatstate,Ilovethatyouhaveresourcesthatreallyhelp.So,thankyousomuchforyourtimeinbeinghere.Again,allthelinkstoyoursitewillbeintheshownotes.Ihopepeoplewillvisityou.Andthankyousomuchforyourwork.Debbie:Yes.You'reverywelcome.Thankyou.Katie:Andthankstoallofyouforlistening,andIwillseeyounexttimeon"HealthyMomsPodcast."

Ifyou'reenjoyingtheseinterviews,wouldyoupleasetaketwominutestoleavearatingorreviewoniTunesforme?Doingthishelpsmorepeopletofindthepodcast,whichmeansevenmoremomsandfamiliescouldbenefitfromtheinformation.Ireallyappreciateyourtime,andthanksasalwaysforlistening.

150- Debunking the Myths About Gallbladder Disease with ... · in that. So, when you remove the...

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Transcript of 150- Debunking the Myths About Gallbladder Disease with ... · in that. So, when you remove the...